Off topic: when a council election has, say, a 25% turnout, who's voting? What kinds of people? Has there been any polling or research on this? I mean other than the actual results, of course.
Good morning all.
Good question, especially as turnout was so low last time, relatively speaking. It's even more appropriate in the US, where it seems that elections are determined not by those who vote, but by those who do not!
When I asked if Haigh had been wrong to describe the company as cowboys and suggest a boycott, he said: “Well, look, that's not the view of the government.”
When comparing class attitudes between the UK and the US bear in mind the US has a different definition of middle class. These are people literally in the middle, broadly equivalent to C1 and C2 social classes.
So when Britons say "middle class" they don't really mean middle class, but rather SE group A? Even though A and B combined are 23% of the population and C2 is 32% by the 2021 census? Hence more than 77% of the population are below "middle class". It's absurd use of language.
Words denoting fluid groups and concepts (working class, professional, right wing, extreme left and hundreds more) are inexact except where some academic is using one and telling you the precise boundaries of their use. Or when the labels are self identifications, in which case they are without meaning for different reasons.
It isn't possible to pay full regard to this obvious truth, as it would remove a large number of PB discussion points, leaving PB only with prime numbers and pineapple on pizza to talk about. Journalism suffers from the same affliction.
Around two thirds of the parliamentary party didn’t vote for any of the 3 candidates, which is a usual feature of this silly voting system. What happened with Johnson in 2019 was untypical.
When I asked if Haigh had been wrong to describe the company as cowboys and suggest a boycott, he said: “Well, look, that's not the view of the government.”
Don't you have to be sacked, collective responsibility and all that. Plus just cost £1bn of investment.
If any multinational is actually making billion pound investment decisions on the basis of what an individual politician says then they don’t have a very robust investment appraisal process.
Jenrick wants us to leave the EUHCR so I wouldn't vote fir him. I hope Kemi isn't as loony?
Well, she says she's not ruling it out. Though the fact she hasn't gone in with a hard "yes" suggests to me she's prevaricating. If I give her the benefit of the doubt (which might be being charitable) she may have sensed that starting a civil war over it at this stage isn't in her interests if she becomes leader, and it's much easier to announce policy nearer an election when you can assess the lie of the land/where the electorate sit.
Politicians who want us to leave the ECHR are one the best arguments for being members of the ECHR
Looks like Leon is going to be washing his dirty smalls for quite a while longer....
I said on this site yesterday the robots were almost certainly tele-operated to some extent - but the precise extent is hard to state
People saying “ah this shows it’s all fake” are nitwits. The revelation here is the smoothness and dexterity of the robots - not plugged in, no wires, able to walk and move amongst people, and talk (even if the talking and movements were finessed by remote operators)
Eg the voice thing. That’s easily fixed, they could fix it now. We already have this tech. Put an advanced voice bot in that metal head and it will talk to you sensibly like a very polite very smart human
The only reason they DIDN’T do this is, presumably, because that tech belongs to a rival of Tesla
When I asked if Haigh had been wrong to describe the company as cowboys and suggest a boycott, he said: “Well, look, that's not the view of the government.”
Apologies if William Glenn and Sandpit have posted this already.
Ex-Trump Official Calls Former President ‘A Total Fascist’
The former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the Trump administration said the former president "is now the most dangerous person to this country.”
Retired Army General, Mark Milley, who served as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under former President Donald Trump and President Joe Biden, now says Trump is a “total fascist” and “fascist to the core,” according to a forthcoming book by Bob Woodward, the famed Watergate journalist.
“He is the most dangerous person ever,” Milley told Woodward for his book “War,” according to The Guardian. “I had suspicions when I talked to you about his mental decline and so forth, but now I realise he’s a total fascist. He is now the most dangerous person to this country.”
“A fascist to the core,” Milley said.
Part of Milley’s warning about Trump revolves around the former president’s promise to get revenge on his perceived political enemies. Trump has frequently told his supporters on the campaign trail: “I am your retribution.” Milley, who clashed with Trump in the White House and who has since been publicly critical of the current Republican presidential nominee, told Woodward that he’s afraid of being recalled from retirement to be court-martialled if Trump wins the election next month.
Is Trump a fascist really ? Or is it just a word people throw around about people they don’t like.
Well, if not fascist, then what is left is just him being unhinged. Either should disqualify him.
It's almost impossible to listen to his stump speeches, because there is no policy content, just rambling bile. He is an extraordinarily angry old man. He lists al those who have slighted him, mixed with bald lies and inate racism.
In the UK we have never been offered anything like Trump. It's why it is so difficult for us to comprehend his appeal. If he stood for PM in this country, he would be mocked and pilloried - point and laugh at the crazy guy. And vote for someone else.
We hope.
So far Trump type candidates have been the third party protest votes (mainly Farage). That may not be the case if Jenrick wins - personally he makes Bozo look like a pleasant person but we saw Mosley get close in the past
When I asked if Haigh had been wrong to describe the company as cowboys and suggest a boycott, he said: “Well, look, that's not the view of the government.”
Don't you have to be sacked, collective responsibility and all that. Plus just cost £1bn of investment.
She was right, though.
Problem is dealing with any of these vast companies comes with comprises and the motto of the government is Growth. You can go all Jeremy Corbyn and stick to your principles, but the real politik is Middle East and China are very powerful and wealthy. Are we going to see government ministers get on their soapbox about TikTok, Temu or Shein?
I personally am much more concerned about somebody like Temu or Shein than DP World (however scummy their hire and fire practice was), but it looks like the current government are going to be going full steam on trying to get China back on board.
Will the Conservative Centre break away and form their own group, probably linking with the Lib Dems.
I don't think that works. Lib Dems wouldn't have them and politically much larger gap than 2010 Orange Bookers / Cameron Tories. Lib Dem are to the left of Labour of plenty of things now and even Conservative centre isn't as centrist as 2010 Tories (as most of them either tried ChangeUK, packed it in, or thrown out by Boris).
Agreed. I mean, I would probably quite like something to resurrect a brand name like Liberal Unionist in that Cameroon/Orange Book space. Unfortunately for me:
1 There probably aren't many Conservative MPs in that space. Caroline Noakes has withdrawn from the partisan fray as Deputy Speaker. Who else is left who would have been recognised as a wet in, say, 1990, or even 2010?
2 They, we, aren't called wets without reason. Mostly, there will be grumbling and then loyalty will kick in. You see it here and elsewhere- Conservative moderates clinging to all sorts of desperate excuses and whataboutery because the alternative is Socialism.
When I asked if Haigh had been wrong to describe the company as cowboys and suggest a boycott, he said: “Well, look, that's not the view of the government.”
Don't you have to be sacked, collective responsibility and all that. Plus just cost £1bn of investment.
She was right, though.
And she hasn’t cost a penny in investment - because if DP World doesn’t invest the money someone else will.its a port faciliting imports / exports in/out of the UK. It’s not like the money will be invested in France at the expense of us
Kamala Harris on Saturday planned to release a report on her health and medical history which finds that “she possesses the physical and mental resiliency required to successfully execute the duties of the presidency” if voters elect her in November, according to a senior aide on her campaign.
Kamala Harris on Saturday planned to release a report on her health and medical history which finds that “she possesses the physical and mental resiliency required to successfully execute the duties of the presidency” if voters elect her in November, according to a senior aide on her campaign.
Guardian
I am sure she is, but these kind of reports have been rather discredited as Biden and Trump ones.
When comparing class attitudes between the UK and the US bear in mind the US has a different definition of middle class. These are people literally in the middle, broadly equivalent to C1 and C2 social classes.
US middle class aren't spending their Saturday's in John Lewis (insert Macy's) buying Emma Bridgewater plates and mugs....checks credit card notifications as Mrs U is currently there....
I suspect C1 and C2 or equivalent is a bigger and more respected share of the population in the US than here. Albeit skilled technician type jobs are disappearing there too.
The biggest difference is that middle class is regarded as sort of poor in the US and everyone is desperate to show they're richer than that whereas here it's sort of rich and everyone is desperate to show they're working class which would be middle class for the USA
And what do we call people who boast about having 83" tellies?
When I asked if Haigh had been wrong to describe the company as cowboys and suggest a boycott, he said: “Well, look, that's not the view of the government.”
Don't you have to be sacked, collective responsibility and all that. Plus just cost £1bn of investment.
She was right, though.
And she hasn’t cost a penny in investment - because if DP World doesn’t invest the money someone else will.its a port faciliting imports / exports in/out of the UK. It’s not like the money will be invested in France at the expense of us
Great signal though, the government of growth, who are having this investment conference, we aren't inviting the richest man in the world because he writes mean tweets and we have pissed off an absolute massive global logistics company and won't attend.
Apparently they also sent out a load of the invites at really short notice, as if CEO's have totally empty diaries and can drop everything with a few days notice.
Not exactly great signals. Particularly when Macron is putting these on in where he does them with full charm offensive.
Will the Conservative Centre break away and form their own group, probably linking with the Lib Dems.
I don't think that works. Lib Dems wouldn't have them and politically much larger gap than 2010 Orange Bookers / Cameron Tories. Lib Dem are to the left of Labour of plenty of things now and even Conservative centre isn't as centrist as 2010 Tories (as most of them either tried ChangeUK, packed it in, or thrown out by Boris).
Agreed. I mean, I would probably quite like something to resurrect a brand name like Liberal Unionist in that Cameroon/Orange Book space. Unfortunately for me:
1 There probably aren't many Conservative MPs in that space. Caroline Noakes has withdrawn from the partisan fray as Deputy Speaker. Who else is left who would have been recognised as a wet in, say, 1990, or even 2010?
2 They, we, aren't called wets without reason. Mostly, there will be grumbling and then loyalty will kick in. You see it here and elsewhere- Conservative moderates clinging to all sorts of desperate excuses and whataboutery because the alternative is Socialism.
I am sure such a party would romp home among the PB electorate, I guess the question is would it among the British public, I don't know.
I am sure such a party would romp home among the PB electorate, I guess the question is would it among the British public, I don't know.
I refer readers to the HIGNFY clip posted earlier. I suspect an audience that doesn't rate BoZo as a good PM is more representative of the British public than the current Tory party would like
Will the Conservative Centre break away and form their own group, probably linking with the Lib Dems.
I don't think that works. Lib Dems wouldn't have them and politically much larger gap than 2010 Orange Bookers / Cameron Tories. Lib Dem are to the left of Labour of plenty of things now and even Conservative centre isn't as centrist as 2010 Tories (as most of them either tried ChangeUK, packed it in, or thrown out by Boris).
Agreed. I mean, I would probably quite like something to resurrect a brand name like Liberal Unionist in that Cameroon/Orange Book space. Unfortunately for me:
1 There probably aren't many Conservative MPs in that space. Caroline Noakes has withdrawn from the partisan fray as Deputy Speaker. Who else is left who would have been recognised as a wet in, say, 1990, or even 2010?
2 They, we, aren't called wets without reason. Mostly, there will be grumbling and then loyalty will kick in. You see it here and elsewhere- Conservative moderates clinging to all sorts of desperate excuses and whataboutery because the alternative is Socialism.
I am sure such a party would romp home among the PB electorate, I guess the question is would it among the British public, I don't know.
It wouldn't. We'd have it being offered already if it would.
When I asked if Haigh had been wrong to describe the company as cowboys and suggest a boycott, he said: “Well, look, that's not the view of the government.”
Don't you have to be sacked, collective responsibility and all that. Plus just cost £1bn of investment.
Is there a “first out of the Cabinet” market up yet, because Louise Haigh must be in serious danger if the PM has to clarify her remarks. DP World are not coming to the investment conference on Monday, which is slightly embarrassing, to put it mildly, for the government.
Looks like Leon is going to be washing his dirty smalls for quite a while longer....
I said on this site yesterday the robots were almost certainly tele-operated to some extent - but the precise extent is hard to state
People saying “ah this shows it’s all fake” are nitwits. The revelation here is the smoothness and dexterity of the robots - not plugged in, no wires, able to walk and move amongst people, and talk (even if the talking and movements were finessed by remote operators)
Eg the voice thing. That’s easily fixed, they could fix it now. We already have this tech. Put an advanced voice bot in that metal head and it will talk to you sensibly like a very polite very smart human
The only reason they DIDN’T do this is, presumably, because that tech belongs to a rival of Tesla
Technical achievements on dexterity etc will have uses I'm sure, but we don't even need human shaped robots for anything that couldn't be done with non human shaped ones.
I am sure such a party would romp home among the PB electorate, I guess the question is would it among the British public, I don't know.
I refer readers to the HIGNFY clip posted earlier. I suspect an audience that doesn't rate BoZo as a good PM is more representative of the British public than the current Tory party would like
Putting aside your absolute obsession with everything Boris. One thing he identified (well Cummings did) and also explains the rise of Corbyn, is it does seem like the British public are wanting a more active state, that seems to have accelerated with COVID.
Would a Cameron style pitch work these days? May's pitch of just keep calm and carry on, nearly allowed Corbyn to win. Even Farage was promising loads of state intervention in things (however unrealistic). Lib Dem's have tacked left. Labour are wanting to be more interventionist than Blair government. Who the f##k knows what the Tories are doing, not sure they know what they stand for these days.
When I asked if Haigh had been wrong to describe the company as cowboys and suggest a boycott, he said: “Well, look, that's not the view of the government.”
Don't you have to be sacked, collective responsibility and all that. Plus just cost £1bn of investment.
That photo of SKS lower down your link - the poor man looks to have aged terribly already. All PMs are aged by the job, but this is only a few months in with a huge majority.
When I asked if Haigh had been wrong to describe the company as cowboys and suggest a boycott, he said: “Well, look, that's not the view of the government.”
Don't you have to be sacked, collective responsibility and all that. Plus just cost £1bn of investment.
That photo of SKS lower down your link - the poor man looks to have aged terribly already. All PMs are aged by the job, but this is only a few months in with a huge majority.
His face looks very puffy, looks like he has put on quite a bit of weight.
Will the Conservative Centre break away and form their own group, probably linking with the Lib Dems.
I don't think that works. Lib Dems wouldn't have them and politically much larger gap than 2010 Orange Bookers / Cameron Tories. Lib Dem are to the left of Labour of plenty of things now and even Conservative centre isn't as centrist as 2010 Tories (as most of them either tried ChangeUK, packed it in, or thrown out by Boris).
Agreed. I mean, I would probably quite like something to resurrect a brand name like Liberal Unionist in that Cameroon/Orange Book space. Unfortunately for me:
1 There probably aren't many Conservative MPs in that space. Caroline Noakes has withdrawn from the partisan fray as Deputy Speaker. Who else is left who would have been recognised as a wet in, say, 1990, or even 2010?
2 They, we, aren't called wets without reason. Mostly, there will be grumbling and then loyalty will kick in. You see it here and elsewhere- Conservative moderates clinging to all sorts of desperate excuses and whataboutery because the alternative is Socialism.
I am sure such a party would romp home among the PB electorate, I guess the question is would it among the British public, I don't know.
Very much doubt it.
However, one of the reasons that the Conservatives dominated the 20th century was that wets and dries were able to share a party, and now they aren't. And without those "nice people in nice places" votes and seats, the Conservatives are likely to struggle to assemble a winning total.
Will the Conservative Centre break away and form their own group, probably linking with the Lib Dems.
I don't think that works. Lib Dems wouldn't have them and politically much larger gap than 2010 Orange Bookers / Cameron Tories. Lib Dem are to the left of Labour of plenty of things now and even Conservative centre isn't as centrist as 2010 Tories (as most of them either tried ChangeUK, packed it in, or thrown out by Boris).
Agreed. I mean, I would probably quite like something to resurrect a brand name like Liberal Unionist in that Cameroon/Orange Book space. Unfortunately for me:
1 There probably aren't many Conservative MPs in that space. Caroline Noakes has withdrawn from the partisan fray as Deputy Speaker. Who else is left who would have been recognised as a wet in, say, 1990, or even 2010?
2 They, we, aren't called wets without reason. Mostly, there will be grumbling and then loyalty will kick in. You see it here and elsewhere- Conservative moderates clinging to all sorts of desperate excuses and whataboutery because the alternative is Socialism.
I am sure such a party would romp home among the PB electorate, I guess the question is would it among the British public, I don't know.
Very much doubt it.
However, one of the reasons that the Conservatives dominated the 20th century was that wets and dries were able to share a party, and now they aren't. And without those "nice people in nice places" votes and seats, the Conservatives are likely to struggle to assemble a winning total.
I think there has been a shift among public mood. I am sure part of it is if the social contract of work hard, few years out of uni (or into a job) you buy a house, then have kids, maybe your wife stays at home / works part-time, maybe you do particularly well send your kids to private school, etc, has all broken down. This has shifted public sentiment on what the state should be doing.
Buying a houses / having multiple kids where one partner stays at home / private schools for the kids, for working people in their 30s is not even the middle class dream anymore, its exclusively for the rich people.
Looks like Leon is going to be washing his dirty smalls for quite a while longer....
I said on this site yesterday the robots were almost certainly tele-operated to some extent - but the precise extent is hard to state
People saying “ah this shows it’s all fake” are nitwits. The revelation here is the smoothness and dexterity of the robots - not plugged in, no wires, able to walk and move amongst people, and talk (even if the talking and movements were finessed by remote operators)
Eg the voice thing. That’s easily fixed, they could fix it now. We already have this tech. Put an advanced voice bot in that metal head and it will talk to you sensibly like a very polite very smart human
The only reason they DIDN’T do this is, presumably, because that tech belongs to a rival of Tesla
Quite possibly cost/practicality for what was really a glitzy car launch?
It's relatively easy now to get humanoid robots performing sophisticated tasks within certain parameters, much trickier to do generalised intelligence due to the processing power required and to sync it all up given how many more things it needs to do when in an open environment - and do flawlessly if at an event like that.
The tech is there, it's just, as ever, getting it into a consumer-friendly, cost-effective ultra-reliable form that's the issue. So I'm not sure you'd have made 30 odd advanced prototypes so they can dance to Haddaway and impress some Tesla nerds by serving them vodkas rather than ones that can complete those tasks.
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
The Tories will be in a pickle whichever of them wins, especially as they remain in denial about the reasons for their defeat.
With their lack of honesty, integrity and competence having contributed so significantly to voters’ disgust, Jenrick would indeed be a *bold* choice to try and rebuild their reputation.
On Trump I honestly think hes strong favourite now. Why. Look at the state polling. Pennsylvania is a toss up but Trump can afford to lose this if he wins Georgia, North Carolina and Arizona all of which he is strong odds on favourites in. Not only this he has strong chances to win in Nevada and Wisconsin. Its Trumps to lose now.
Looks like Leon is going to be washing his dirty smalls for quite a while longer....
I said on this site yesterday the robots were almost certainly tele-operated to some extent - but the precise extent is hard to state
People saying “ah this shows it’s all fake” are nitwits. The revelation here is the smoothness and dexterity of the robots - not plugged in, no wires, able to walk and move amongst people, and talk (even if the talking and movements were finessed by remote operators)
Eg the voice thing. That’s easily fixed, they could fix it now. We already have this tech. Put an advanced voice bot in that metal head and it will talk to you sensibly like a very polite very smart human
The only reason they DIDN’T do this is, presumably, because that tech belongs to a rival of Tesla
Technical achievements on dexterity etc will have uses I'm sure, but we don't even need human shaped robots for anything that couldn't be done with non human shaped ones.
As discussed yesterday, humanoid robots will be INCREDIBLY useful because the world is shaped to the needs of humans. From holding a potato peeler to using a lawnmower to ironing shirts to walking the dog, cleaning windows, mixing a cocktail, frying an egg in your kitchen, if you want ONE robot to do all of these, making it humanoid is by far the best bet. Looks like they are close
The hands alone amaze me. Here’s one playing charades
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now. Same with things like washing machines, they are super cheap now and you can rent them or buy using the Klarna type schemes.
Foreign holidays might not have been 10 years ago, with your £10 flights to Alicante, but all holidays have got very expensive now. Staycation in the UK is even worse for cost.
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now.
10% is a lot of people. I suppose it depends where we set the middle class bar.
Will the Conservative Centre break away and form their own group, probably linking with the Lib Dems.
I don't think that works. Lib Dems wouldn't have them and politically much larger gap than 2010 Orange Bookers / Cameron Tories. Lib Dem are to the left of Labour of plenty of things now and even Conservative centre isn't as centrist as 2010 Tories (as most of them either tried ChangeUK, packed it in, or thrown out by Boris).
Agreed. I mean, I would probably quite like something to resurrect a brand name like Liberal Unionist in that Cameroon/Orange Book space. Unfortunately for me:
1 There probably aren't many Conservative MPs in that space. Caroline Noakes has withdrawn from the partisan fray as Deputy Speaker. Who else is left who would have been recognised as a wet in, say, 1990, or even 2010?
2 They, we, aren't called wets without reason. Mostly, there will be grumbling and then loyalty will kick in. You see it here and elsewhere- Conservative moderates clinging to all sorts of desperate excuses and whataboutery because the alternative is Socialism.
I am sure such a party would romp home among the PB electorate, I guess the question is would it among the British public, I don't know.
Very much doubt it.
However, one of the reasons that the Conservatives dominated the 20th century was that wets and dries were able to share a party, and now they aren't. And without those "nice people in nice places" votes and seats, the Conservatives are likely to struggle to assemble a winning total.
I think there has been a shift among public mood. I am sure part of it is if the social contract of work hard, few years out of uni (or into a job) you buy a house, then have kids, maybe your wife stays at home / works part-time, maybe you do particularly well send your kids to private school, etc, has all broken down. This has shifted public sentiment on what the state should be doing.
Buying a houses / having multiple kids where one partner stays at home / private schools for the kids, for working people in their 30s is not even the middle class dream anymore, its exclusively for the rich people.
The middle class dream is now both partners working with the hope one day of buying a flat in zone 4 and knocking out 1 kid in your late 30s.
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now.
The American definition of middle-class (quintiles 2-4) is quite different from the British definition, which is pretty much deciles 8 and 9.
When I asked if Haigh had been wrong to describe the company as cowboys and suggest a boycott, he said: “Well, look, that's not the view of the government.”
Don't you have to be sacked, collective responsibility and all that. Plus just cost £1bn of investment.
That photo of SKS lower down your link - the poor man looks to have aged terribly already. All PMs are aged by the job, but this is only a few months in with a huge majority.
His face looks very puffy, looks like he has put on quite a bit of weight.
Looks like Leon is going to be washing his dirty smalls for quite a while longer....
I said on this site yesterday the robots were almost certainly tele-operated to some extent - but the precise extent is hard to state
People saying “ah this shows it’s all fake” are nitwits. The revelation here is the smoothness and dexterity of the robots - not plugged in, no wires, able to walk and move amongst people, and talk (even if the talking and movements were finessed by remote operators)
Eg the voice thing. That’s easily fixed, they could fix it now. We already have this tech. Put an advanced voice bot in that metal head and it will talk to you sensibly like a very polite very smart human
The only reason they DIDN’T do this is, presumably, because that tech belongs to a rival of Tesla
Technical achievements on dexterity etc will have uses I'm sure, but we don't even need human shaped robots for anything that couldn't be done with non human shaped ones.
As discussed yesterday, humanoid robots will be INCREDIBLY useful because the world is shaped to the needs of humans. From holding a potato peeler to using a lawnmower to ironing shirts to walking the dog, cleaning windows, mixing a cocktail, frying an egg in your kitchen, if you want ONE robot to do all of these, making it humanoid is by far the best bet. Looks like they are close
The hands alone amaze me. Here’s one playing charades
But wouldn't we just create a robot arm and hand to do ironing or peeling, not an entire body? Specialisation would enable them to be better than genericised for multiple tasks. It could be on wheels if you need it to move, able to bounce up stairs.
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now.
The American definition of middle-class (quintiles 2-4) is quite different from the British definition, which is pretty much deciles 8 and 9.
When comparing class attitudes between the UK and the US bear in mind the US has a different definition of middle class. These are people literally in the middle, broadly equivalent to C1 and C2 social classes.
So when Britons say "middle class" they don't really mean middle class, but rather SE group A? Even though A and B combined are 23% of the population and C2 is 32% by the 2021 census? Hence more than 77% of the population are below "middle class". It's absurd use of language.
The British terminology is based on a pyramid system with the top third being the upper class.
Robert Waller used the term professional/managerial for ABs and non-manual for ABCs in his constituency guides.
It's not really the top third, though. It's anyone below the top 1% and above the bottom 45%. Someone in a £4m detached house in Richmond who goes on two skiing holidays a year and employs a nanny and two cleaners is middle class. Someone in a two bedroom terrace in Co. Durham who works in a university library is also middle class.
On Trump I honestly think hes strong favourite now. Why. Look at the state polling. Pennsylvania is a toss up but Trump can afford to lose this if he wins Georgia, North Carolina and Arizona all of which he is strong odds on favourites in. Not only this he has strong chances to win in Nevada and Wisconsin. Its Trumps to lose now.
Pennsylvania would be most concerning, all others look like 50/50 shots which edge one way or the other in any given week.
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now.
The American definition of middle-class (quintiles 2-4) is quite different from the British definition, which is pretty much deciles 8 and 9.
Also most working class do take foreign holidays.
Would the question be whether they do so annually?
On Trump I honestly think hes strong favourite now. Why. Look at the state polling. Pennsylvania is a toss up but Trump can afford to lose this if he wins Georgia, North Carolina and Arizona all of which he is strong odds on favourites in. Not only this he has strong chances to win in Nevada and Wisconsin. Its Trumps to lose now.
Pennsylvania would be most concerning, all others look like 50/50 shots which edge one way or the other in any given week.
Trumps 8/15 in Georgia and North Caolina, 4/9 in Arizona.
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now.
10% is a lot of people. I suppose it depends where we set the middle class bar.
Middle class for me in the general public parlance is your types shopping in Waitrose, John Lewis, etc i.e. they have the purchasing power to not have to buy the cheapest versions for everything. They probably buy a Dyson, a Miele, a Bosch for white goods, rather than whatever the cheapest Chinese one is in Currys. That sort of thing.
Looks like Leon is going to be washing his dirty smalls for quite a while longer....
I said on this site yesterday the robots were almost certainly tele-operated to some extent - but the precise extent is hard to state
People saying “ah this shows it’s all fake” are nitwits. The revelation here is the smoothness and dexterity of the robots - not plugged in, no wires, able to walk and move amongst people, and talk (even if the talking and movements were finessed by remote operators)
Eg the voice thing. That’s easily fixed, they could fix it now. We already have this tech. Put an advanced voice bot in that metal head and it will talk to you sensibly like a very polite very smart human
The only reason they DIDN’T do this is, presumably, because that tech belongs to a rival of Tesla
Technical achievements on dexterity etc will have uses I'm sure, but we don't even need human shaped robots for anything that couldn't be done with non human shaped ones.
As discussed yesterday, humanoid robots will be INCREDIBLY useful because the world is shaped to the needs of humans. From holding a potato peeler to using a lawnmower to ironing shirts to walking the dog, cleaning windows, mixing a cocktail, frying an egg in your kitchen, if you want ONE robot to do all of these, making it humanoid is by far the best bet. Looks like they are close
The hands alone amaze me. Here’s one playing charades
But wouldn't we just create a robot arm and hand to do ironing or peeling, not an entire body? Specialisation would enable them to be better than genericised for multiple tasks. It could be on wheels if you need it to move, able to bounce up stairs.
But the world is human shaped. There is no more useful shape for doing tasks that humans do than the shape of a human. Why have 20 specialist robots cluttering the place up when you can have one generalist one? Most of us don't have specialist cars for specialist purposes - we have one generalist one.
When comparing class attitudes between the UK and the US bear in mind the US has a different definition of middle class. These are people literally in the middle, broadly equivalent to C1 and C2 social classes.
So when Britons say "middle class" they don't really mean middle class, but rather SE group A? Even though A and B combined are 23% of the population and C2 is 32% by the 2021 census? Hence more than 77% of the population are below "middle class". It's absurd use of language.
The British terminology is based on a pyramid system with the top third being the upper class.
Robert Waller used the term professional/managerial for ABs and non-manual for ABCs in his constituency guides.
It's not really the top third, though. It's anyone below the top 1% and above the bottom 45%. Someone in a £4m detached house in Richmond who goes on two skiing holidays a year and employs a nanny and two cleaners is middle class. Someone in a two bedroom terrace in Co. Durham who works in a university library is also middle class.
Upper and lower middle respectively.
I know people have tried to define more than 3 classes but it doesn't seem to catch on.
When comparing class attitudes between the UK and the US bear in mind the US has a different definition of middle class. These are people literally in the middle, broadly equivalent to C1 and C2 social classes.
So when Britons say "middle class" they don't really mean middle class, but rather SE group A? Even though A and B combined are 23% of the population and C2 is 32% by the 2021 census? Hence more than 77% of the population are below "middle class". It's absurd use of language.
The British terminology is based on a pyramid system with the top third being the upper class.
Robert Waller used the term professional/managerial for ABs and non-manual for ABCs in his constituency guides.
It's not really the top third, though. It's anyone below the top 1% and above the bottom 45%. Someone in a £4m detached house in Richmond who goes on two skiing holidays a year and employs a nanny and two cleaners is middle class. Someone in a two bedroom terrace in Co. Durham who works in a university library is also middle class.
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now. Same with things like washing machines, they are super cheap now and you can rent them or buy using the Klarna type schemes.
Foreign holidays might not have been 10 years ago, with your £10 flights to Alicante, but all holidays have got very expensive now. Staycation in the UK is even worse for cost.
I staycation every year, meaning I almost never go away. Keeps costs low.
When comparing class attitudes between the UK and the US bear in mind the US has a different definition of middle class. These are people literally in the middle, broadly equivalent to C1 and C2 social classes.
So when Britons say "middle class" they don't really mean middle class, but rather SE group A? Even though A and B combined are 23% of the population and C2 is 32% by the 2021 census? Hence more than 77% of the population are below "middle class". It's absurd use of language.
The British terminology is based on a pyramid system with the top third being the upper class.
Robert Waller used the term professional/managerial for ABs and non-manual for ABCs in his constituency guides.
It's not really the top third, though. It's anyone below the top 1% and above the bottom 45%. Someone in a £4m detached house in Richmond who goes on two skiing holidays a year and employs a nanny and two cleaners is middle class. Someone in a two bedroom terrace in Co. Durham who works in a university library is also middle class.
Upper and lower middle respectively.
I know people have tried to define more than 3 classes but it doesn't seem to catch on.
The 4m detached house in Richmond is the daily mail version of middle class. Totally different from someone living in a semi in Newcastle.
Looks like Leon is going to be washing his dirty smalls for quite a while longer....
I said on this site yesterday the robots were almost certainly tele-operated to some extent - but the precise extent is hard to state
People saying “ah this shows it’s all fake” are nitwits. The revelation here is the smoothness and dexterity of the robots - not plugged in, no wires, able to walk and move amongst people, and talk (even if the talking and movements were finessed by remote operators)
Eg the voice thing. That’s easily fixed, they could fix it now. We already have this tech. Put an advanced voice bot in that metal head and it will talk to you sensibly like a very polite very smart human
The only reason they DIDN’T do this is, presumably, because that tech belongs to a rival of Tesla
Technical achievements on dexterity etc will have uses I'm sure, but we don't even need human shaped robots for anything that couldn't be done with non human shaped ones.
As discussed yesterday, humanoid robots will be INCREDIBLY useful because the world is shaped to the needs of humans. From holding a potato peeler to using a lawnmower to ironing shirts to walking the dog, cleaning windows, mixing a cocktail, frying an egg in your kitchen, if you want ONE robot to do all of these, making it humanoid is by far the best bet. Looks like they are close
The hands alone amaze me. Here’s one playing charades
But wouldn't we just create a robot arm and hand to do ironing or peeling, not an entire body? Specialisation would enable them to be better than genericised for multiple tasks. It could be on wheels if you need it to move, able to bounce up stairs.
But the world is human shaped. There is no more useful shape for doing tasks that humans do than the shape of a human. Why have 20 specialist robots cluttering the place up when you can have one generalist one? Most of us don't have specialist cars for specialist purposes - we have one generalist one.
Then have it be a Swiss army knife on legs with a fishbowl for a head, the commitment to mimicry is boring (or eventually a sex thing).
Looks like Leon is going to be washing his dirty smalls for quite a while longer....
I said on this site yesterday the robots were almost certainly tele-operated to some extent - but the precise extent is hard to state
People saying “ah this shows it’s all fake” are nitwits. The revelation here is the smoothness and dexterity of the robots - not plugged in, no wires, able to walk and move amongst people, and talk (even if the talking and movements were finessed by remote operators)
Eg the voice thing. That’s easily fixed, they could fix it now. We already have this tech. Put an advanced voice bot in that metal head and it will talk to you sensibly like a very polite very smart human
The only reason they DIDN’T do this is, presumably, because that tech belongs to a rival of Tesla
Technical achievements on dexterity etc will have uses I'm sure, but we don't even need human shaped robots for anything that couldn't be done with non human shaped ones.
As discussed yesterday, humanoid robots will be INCREDIBLY useful because the world is shaped to the needs of humans. From holding a potato peeler to using a lawnmower to ironing shirts to walking the dog, cleaning windows, mixing a cocktail, frying an egg in your kitchen, if you want ONE robot to do all of these, making it humanoid is by far the best bet. Looks like they are close
The hands alone amaze me. Here’s one playing charades
But wouldn't we just create a robot arm and hand to do ironing or peeling, not an entire body? Specialisation would enable them to be better than genericised for multiple tasks. It could be on wheels if you need it to move, able to bounce up stairs.
Robot arm you say.
Reminds me of this episode of The Big Bang Theory.
On Trump I honestly think hes strong favourite now. Why. Look at the state polling. Pennsylvania is a toss up but Trump can afford to lose this if he wins Georgia, North Carolina and Arizona all of which he is strong odds on favourites in. Not only this he has strong chances to win in Nevada and Wisconsin. Its Trumps to lose now.
Pennsylvania would be most concerning, all others look like 50/50 shots which edge one way or the other in any given week.
PA is the tipping point State, was won by Trump by 0.7% in 2016 and by Biden by 1.2% in 2020.
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now.
10% is a lot of people. I suppose it depends where we set the middle class bar.
Middle class for me in the general public parlance is your types shopping in Waitrose, John Lewis, etc i.e. they have the purchasing power to not have to buy the cheapest versions for everything. They probably buy a Dyson, a Miele, a Bosch for white goods, rather than whatever the cheapest Chinese one is in Currys. That sort of thing.
I think that's a good rule of thumb. They might still hunt for the cheap deals, but they aren't reliant on doing so.
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now. Same with things like washing machines, they are super cheap now and you can rent them or buy using the Klarna type schemes.
Foreign holidays might not have been 10 years ago, with your £10 flights to Alicante, but all holidays have got very expensive now. Staycation in the UK is even worse for cost.
I staycation every year, meaning I almost never go away. Keeps costs low.
A week in Tenerife is much cheaper than a week in Cornwall though unless you camp or something.
When comparing class attitudes between the UK and the US bear in mind the US has a different definition of middle class. These are people literally in the middle, broadly equivalent to C1 and C2 social classes.
US middle class aren't spending their Saturday's in John Lewis (insert Macy's) buying Emma Bridgewater plates and mugs....checks credit card notifications as Mrs U is currently there....
I suspect C1 and C2 or equivalent is a bigger and more respected share of the population in the US than here. Albeit skilled technician type jobs are disappearing there too.
The biggest difference is that middle class is regarded as sort of poor in the US and everyone is desperate to show they're richer than that whereas here it's sort of rich and everyone is desperate to show they're working class which would be middle class for the USA
And what do we call people who boast about having 83" tellies?
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now.
10% is a lot of people. I suppose it depends where we set the middle class bar.
Middle class for me in the general public parlance is your types shopping in Waitrose, John Lewis, etc i.e. they have the purchasing power to not have to buy the cheapest versions for everything. They probably buy a Dyson, a Miele, a Bosch for white goods, rather than whatever the cheapest Chinese one is in Currys. That sort of thing.
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now. Same with things like washing machines, they are super cheap now and you can rent them or buy using the Klarna type schemes.
Foreign holidays might not have been 10 years ago, with your £10 flights to Alicante, but all holidays have got very expensive now. Staycation in the UK is even worse for cost.
I staycation every year, meaning I almost never go away. Keeps costs low.
A week in Tenerife is much cheaper than a week in Cornwall though unless you camp or something.
Yes, so I gather. I mean I stay at home, not stay in this country.
Looks like Leon is going to be washing his dirty smalls for quite a while longer....
I said on this site yesterday the robots were almost certainly tele-operated to some extent - but the precise extent is hard to state
People saying “ah this shows it’s all fake” are nitwits. The revelation here is the smoothness and dexterity of the robots - not plugged in, no wires, able to walk and move amongst people, and talk (even if the talking and movements were finessed by remote operators)
Eg the voice thing. That’s easily fixed, they could fix it now. We already have this tech. Put an advanced voice bot in that metal head and it will talk to you sensibly like a very polite very smart human
The only reason they DIDN’T do this is, presumably, because that tech belongs to a rival of Tesla
Quite possibly cost/practicality for what was really a glitzy car launch?
It's relatively easy now to get humanoid robots performing sophisticated tasks within certain parameters, much trickier to do generalised intelligence due to the processing power required and to sync it all up given how many more things it needs to do when in an open environment - and do flawlessly if at an event like that.
The tech is there, it's just, as ever, getting it into a consumer-friendly, cost-effective ultra-reliable form that's the issue. So I'm not sure you'd have made 30 odd advanced prototypes so they can dance to Haddaway and impress some Tesla nerds by serving them vodkas rather than ones that can complete those tasks.
The voices are interesting. Many are saying they too were remotely operated. But - some evidence they were real and autonomous
On Haigh, I do have a bit of sympathy. But it once again shows that this government didn’t put enough thought into actually governing and I think a number of them still have an opposition mindset they’re finding it hard to shake.
It’s not a great look to be a transport secretary singling out companies for criticism when you’re just about to sign an investment deal with them, however deserved the criticism may be.
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now.
The American definition of middle-class (quintiles 2-4) is quite different from the British definition, which is pretty much deciles 8 and 9.
Also most working class do take foreign holidays.
Indeed.
Welcome to PB by the way, and hope that you’re in favour of Ukraine winning their war.
When comparing class attitudes between the UK and the US bear in mind the US has a different definition of middle class. These are people literally in the middle, broadly equivalent to C1 and C2 social classes.
So when Britons say "middle class" they don't really mean middle class, but rather SE group A? Even though A and B combined are 23% of the population and C2 is 32% by the 2021 census? Hence more than 77% of the population are below "middle class". It's absurd use of language.
The British terminology is based on a pyramid system with the top third being the upper class.
Robert Waller used the term professional/managerial for ABs and non-manual for ABCs in his constituency guides.
It's not really the top third, though. It's anyone below the top 1% and above the bottom 45%. Someone in a £4m detached house in Richmond who goes on two skiing holidays a year and employs a nanny and two cleaners is middle class. Someone in a two bedroom terrace in Co. Durham who works in a university library is also middle class.
Hardly - house prices are low in Durham so unless you are in the underclass you have a 3 bedroom semi
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now.
The American definition of middle-class (quintiles 2-4) is quite different from the British definition, which is pretty much deciles 8 and 9.
Also most working class do take foreign holidays.
Would the question be whether they do so annually?
I don't mix with the proles so couldn't say.
(Jk not been abroad in years)
I do mix with the proles. Both go abroad, but the middle classes are embarassed if they take their kids out of school to do so.
Looks like Leon is going to be washing his dirty smalls for quite a while longer....
I said on this site yesterday the robots were almost certainly tele-operated to some extent - but the precise extent is hard to state
People saying “ah this shows it’s all fake” are nitwits. The revelation here is the smoothness and dexterity of the robots - not plugged in, no wires, able to walk and move amongst people, and talk (even if the talking and movements were finessed by remote operators)
Eg the voice thing. That’s easily fixed, they could fix it now. We already have this tech. Put an advanced voice bot in that metal head and it will talk to you sensibly like a very polite very smart human
The only reason they DIDN’T do this is, presumably, because that tech belongs to a rival of Tesla
Technical achievements on dexterity etc will have uses I'm sure, but we don't even need human shaped robots for anything that couldn't be done with non human shaped ones.
As discussed yesterday, humanoid robots will be INCREDIBLY useful because the world is shaped to the needs of humans. From holding a potato peeler to using a lawnmower to ironing shirts to walking the dog, cleaning windows, mixing a cocktail, frying an egg in your kitchen, if you want ONE robot to do all of these, making it humanoid is by far the best bet. Looks like they are close
The hands alone amaze me. Here’s one playing charades
But wouldn't we just create a robot arm and hand to do ironing or peeling, not an entire body? Specialisation would enable them to be better than genericised for multiple tasks. It could be on wheels if you need it to move, able to bounce up stairs.
Robot arm you say.
Reminds me of this episode of The Big Bang Theory.
What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.
Sadly it seems Kemi Badenoch has brought out the racists in full force.
The Racism I am seeing against kemi is actually just grim
Conservatives believe in meritocracy - conservatives aren’t backing kemi just because of her race (that’s what we are against) but because she’s a brilliant politician and what our party and country needs. Not this racism
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now.
The American definition of middle-class (quintiles 2-4) is quite different from the British definition, which is pretty much deciles 8 and 9.
Also most working class do take foreign holidays.
Indeed.
Welcome to PB by the way, and hope that you’re in favour of Ukraine winning their war.
Looks like Leon is going to be washing his dirty smalls for quite a while longer....
I said on this site yesterday the robots were almost certainly tele-operated to some extent - but the precise extent is hard to state
People saying “ah this shows it’s all fake” are nitwits. The revelation here is the smoothness and dexterity of the robots - not plugged in, no wires, able to walk and move amongst people, and talk (even if the talking and movements were finessed by remote operators)
Eg the voice thing. That’s easily fixed, they could fix it now. We already have this tech. Put an advanced voice bot in that metal head and it will talk to you sensibly like a very polite very smart human
The only reason they DIDN’T do this is, presumably, because that tech belongs to a rival of Tesla
Technical achievements on dexterity etc will have uses I'm sure, but we don't even need human shaped robots for anything that couldn't be done with non human shaped ones.
As discussed yesterday, humanoid robots will be INCREDIBLY useful because the world is shaped to the needs of humans. From holding a potato peeler to using a lawnmower to ironing shirts to walking the dog, cleaning windows, mixing a cocktail, frying an egg in your kitchen, if you want ONE robot to do all of these, making it humanoid is by far the best bet. Looks like they are close
The hands alone amaze me. Here’s one playing charades
But wouldn't we just create a robot arm and hand to do ironing or peeling, not an entire body? Specialisation would enable them to be better than genericised for multiple tasks. It could be on wheels if you need it to move, able to bounce up stairs.
But the world is human shaped. There is no more useful shape for doing tasks that humans do than the shape of a human. Why have 20 specialist robots cluttering the place up when you can have one generalist one? Most of us don't have specialist cars for specialist purposes - we have one generalist one.
My guess is that the most popular versions will be small. Like children. So they won’t take up so much space but will have all the human skills, dexterity etc, and much greater strength - and yet, less threatening
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
I would say these (apart from housing benefit) would cover 90% of households.
On Haigh, I do have a bit of sympathy. But it once again shows that this government didn’t put enough thought into actually governing and I think a number of them still have an opposition mindset they’re finding it hard to shake.
It’s not a great look to be a transport secretary singling out companies for criticism when you’re just about to sign an investment deal with them, however deserved the criticism may be.
BlackBeltBarrister put out a video yesterday saying that VAT on betting would be much more gainful than VAT on private schools.
Sorry I can't get links on the device I'm using atm.
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now.
The American definition of middle-class (quintiles 2-4) is quite different from the British definition, which is pretty much deciles 8 and 9.
Also most working class do take foreign holidays.
Would the question be whether they do so annually?
I don't mix with the proles so couldn't say.
(Jk not been abroad in years)
I do mix with the proles. Both go abroad, but the middle classes are embarassed if they take their kids out of school to do so.
On Haigh, I do have a bit of sympathy. But it once again shows that this government didn’t put enough thought into actually governing and I think a number of them still have an opposition mindset they’re finding it hard to shake.
It’s not a great look to be a transport secretary singling out companies for criticism when you’re just about to sign an investment deal with them, however deserved the criticism may be.
I disagree, it's a great look. If the government were more ruthless in pursuing those scum who break the law rather than rolling over to have their bellies tickled while taking the money our economy would be in a much better place.
On Haigh, I do have a bit of sympathy. But it once again shows that this government didn’t put enough thought into actually governing and I think a number of them still have an opposition mindset they’re finding it hard to shake.
It’s not a great look to be a transport secretary singling out companies for criticism when you’re just about to sign an investment deal with them, however deserved the criticism may be.
If you’re the actual minister, rather than a Parlimantary opponent, you need to think before opening your mouth.
Having a go at a company for something that happened years ago, right before they’re about to be the stars of your investment conference with an announcement of £1bn of FDI, is not recommended.
On Haigh, I do have a bit of sympathy. But it once again shows that this government didn’t put enough thought into actually governing and I think a number of them still have an opposition mindset they’re finding it hard to shake.
It’s not a great look to be a transport secretary singling out companies for criticism when you’re just about to sign an investment deal with them, however deserved the criticism may be.
BlackBeltBarrister put out a video yesterday saying that VAT on betting would be much more gainful than VAT on private schools.
Sorry I can't get links on the device I'm using atm.
Since VAT on private schools will almost certainly in the real world be net negative that's not surprising.
If you substantially increase the price of something suddenly while a free alternative is on offer, people will switch.
There isn't a free alternative to betting if you want to gamble.
On Haigh, I do have a bit of sympathy. But it once again shows that this government didn’t put enough thought into actually governing and I think a number of them still have an opposition mindset they’re finding it hard to shake.
It’s not a great look to be a transport secretary singling out companies for criticism when you’re just about to sign an investment deal with them, however deserved the criticism may be.
BlackBeltBarrister put out a video yesterday saying that VAT on betting would be much more gainful than VAT on private schools.
Sorry I can't get links on the device I'm using atm.
I wouldn't be surprised if the government taxed betting more. They anti-gambling lobby has very good media PR and sharps can't get any real money on the regulated sites these days, the downsides are minimal. If random punters were sharp betters they wouldn't be betting 8 way accas in the first place, so putting some extra tax on somewhere won't change that.
Looks like Leon is going to be washing his dirty smalls for quite a while longer....
I said on this site yesterday the robots were almost certainly tele-operated to some extent - but the precise extent is hard to state
People saying “ah this shows it’s all fake” are nitwits. The revelation here is the smoothness and dexterity of the robots - not plugged in, no wires, able to walk and move amongst people, and talk (even if the talking and movements were finessed by remote operators)
Eg the voice thing. That’s easily fixed, they could fix it now. We already have this tech. Put an advanced voice bot in that metal head and it will talk to you sensibly like a very polite very smart human
The only reason they DIDN’T do this is, presumably, because that tech belongs to a rival of Tesla
Technical achievements on dexterity etc will have uses I'm sure, but we don't even need human shaped robots for anything that couldn't be done with non human shaped ones.
As discussed yesterday, humanoid robots will be INCREDIBLY useful because the world is shaped to the needs of humans. From holding a potato peeler to using a lawnmower to ironing shirts to walking the dog, cleaning windows, mixing a cocktail, frying an egg in your kitchen, if you want ONE robot to do all of these, making it humanoid is by far the best bet. Looks like they are close
The hands alone amaze me. Here’s one playing charades
But wouldn't we just create a robot arm and hand to do ironing or peeling, not an entire body? Specialisation would enable them to be better than genericised for multiple tasks. It could be on wheels if you need it to move, able to bounce up stairs.
But the world is human shaped. There is no more useful shape for doing tasks that humans do than the shape of a human. Why have 20 specialist robots cluttering the place up when you can have one generalist one? Most of us don't have specialist cars for specialist purposes - we have one generalist one.
My guess is that the most popular versions will be small. Like children. So they won’t take up so much space but will have all the human skills, dexterity etc, and much greater strength - and yet, less threatening
On Haigh, I do have a bit of sympathy. But it once again shows that this government didn’t put enough thought into actually governing and I think a number of them still have an opposition mindset they’re finding it hard to shake.
It’s not a great look to be a transport secretary singling out companies for criticism when you’re just about to sign an investment deal with them, however deserved the criticism may be.
BlackBeltBarrister put out a video yesterday saying that VAT on betting would be much more gainful than VAT on private schools.
Sorry I can't get links on the device I'm using atm.
VAT on betting would be as bad as increasing CGT to 45%, at totally destroying an industry. Who would accept a 20% markup on their bets?
What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.
Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.
But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.
Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now.
The American definition of middle-class (quintiles 2-4) is quite different from the British definition, which is pretty much deciles 8 and 9.
Also most working class do take foreign holidays.
Indeed.
Welcome to PB by the way, and hope that you’re in favour of Ukraine winning their war.
On Haigh, I do have a bit of sympathy. But it once again shows that this government didn’t put enough thought into actually governing and I think a number of them still have an opposition mindset they’re finding it hard to shake.
It’s not a great look to be a transport secretary singling out companies for criticism when you’re just about to sign an investment deal with them, however deserved the criticism may be.
I disagree, it's a great look. If the government were more ruthless in pursuing those scum who break the law rather than rolling over to have their bellies tickled while taking the money our economy would be in a much better place.
It is not necessarily the case of rolling over though. Do I think ministers shouldn’t call out bad practices? No. But in government one has to be sensitive of the work of government in facilitating investment and know when to pick your battles. Telling people to boycott a company before you’re about to sign an investment deal with said company is not smart government.
What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.
Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.
But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.
Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.
I am just ringing the misses, telling her we aren't middle class, so get out of John Lewis now...we can't be see in such places anymore.
On Haigh, I do have a bit of sympathy. But it once again shows that this government didn’t put enough thought into actually governing and I think a number of them still have an opposition mindset they’re finding it hard to shake.
It’s not a great look to be a transport secretary singling out companies for criticism when you’re just about to sign an investment deal with them, however deserved the criticism may be.
BlackBeltBarrister put out a video yesterday saying that VAT on betting would be much more gainful than VAT on private schools.
Sorry I can't get links on the device I'm using atm.
VAT on betting would be as bad as increasing CGT to 45%, at totally destroying an industry. Who would accept a 20% markup on their bets?
You are thinking about this from somebody on a betting forum. The industry has done a great job of convincing random punters bet boosts and accas are great bets, they aren't doing proper EV calculations.
Someone on here said Trump is an angry old man . I agree somewhat. However his appeal is that many Americans are also angry and want to stick it to the establishment they hate. He is just their vehicle even if they dont like him as a person.
On Haigh, I do have a bit of sympathy. But it once again shows that this government didn’t put enough thought into actually governing and I think a number of them still have an opposition mindset they’re finding it hard to shake.
It’s not a great look to be a transport secretary singling out companies for criticism when you’re just about to sign an investment deal with them, however deserved the criticism may be.
I disagree, it's a great look. If the government were more ruthless in pursuing those scum who break the law rather than rolling over to have their bellies tickled while taking the money our economy would be in a much better place.
What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.
Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.
But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.
Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.
I am just ringing the misses, telling her we aren't middle class anymore, so get out of John Lewis now...we can't be see in such places anymore.
When I asked if Haigh had been wrong to describe the company as cowboys and suggest a boycott, he said: “Well, look, that's not the view of the government.”
On Haigh, I do have a bit of sympathy. But it once again shows that this government didn’t put enough thought into actually governing and I think a number of them still have an opposition mindset they’re finding it hard to shake.
It’s not a great look to be a transport secretary singling out companies for criticism when you’re just about to sign an investment deal with them, however deserved the criticism may be.
BlackBeltBarrister put out a video yesterday saying that VAT on betting would be much more gainful than VAT on private schools.
Sorry I can't get links on the device I'm using atm.
VAT on betting would be as bad as increasing CGT to 45%, at totally destroying an industry. Who would accept a 20% markup on their bets?
On Haigh, I do have a bit of sympathy. But it once again shows that this government didn’t put enough thought into actually governing and I think a number of them still have an opposition mindset they’re finding it hard to shake.
It’s not a great look to be a transport secretary singling out companies for criticism when you’re just about to sign an investment deal with them, however deserved the criticism may be.
I disagree, it's a great look. If the government were more ruthless in pursuing those scum who break the law rather than rolling over to have their bellies tickled while taking the money our economy would be in a much better place.
But they don't want that, hence the rebuke.
Which, I agree, is not a great look.
Both that they won't stand up for us against crooked business, and that Starmer has chosen a craven way of trying to resolve it. If he feels a minister is in breach of CR, he should fire her.
What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.
Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.
But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.
Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.
I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now.
The American definition of middle-class (quintiles 2-4) is quite different from the British definition, which is pretty much deciles 8 and 9.
Also most working class do take foreign holidays.
Indeed.
Welcome to PB by the way, and hope that you’re in favour of Ukraine winning their war.
It's Saturday morning, so odds are against.
Indeed, but one should be allowed to hope.
Seems to be a ‘I’m no fan of Trump but’ guy, on here that quite often goes with being in favour of Ukraine winning their war. Weird but true.
What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.
Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.
But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.
Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.
I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
I'm curious about sleep analysis. If your sleep is deemed not great what action do you then take?
What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.
Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.
But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.
Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.
I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
I would have thought something like a patek philippe is better to signal status so you can attract the best mates (Hope they aint just after your money though wink wink).
When I asked if Haigh had been wrong to describe the company as cowboys and suggest a boycott, he said: “Well, look, that's not the view of the government.”
Don't you have to be sacked, collective responsibility and all that. Plus just cost £1bn of investment.
If any multinational is actually making billion pound investment decisions on the basis of what an individual politician says then they don’t have a very robust investment appraisal process.
One bank I worked at - politician slammed them all over the news.
The bank didn’t put out a whisper.
Same year, the bank was asked to do some more stuff for the government. At nice terms. By the same politician.
Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:
- Washing machine - Direct debits - Not on a pre-pay meter - Car or bicycle - Netflix - Not getting housing benefit - foreign holiday - Home WiFi
I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now.
The American definition of middle-class (quintiles 2-4) is quite different from the British definition, which is pretty much deciles 8 and 9.
Also most working class do take foreign holidays.
Indeed.
Welcome to PB by the way, and hope that you’re in favour of Ukraine winning their war.
It's Saturday morning, so odds are against.
Indeed, but one should be allowed to hope.
Seems to be a ‘I’m no fan of Trump but’ guy, on here that quite often goes with being in favour of Ukraine winning their war. Weird but true.
LOL. I think I’d actually spoil my ballot if I was American, given the choice of the two worst candidates of all time, but I do follow both sides of US media and report back here on what the right wing are saying, which few others do. I hope that this has a benefit to a betting forum.
Comments
Good question, especially as turnout was so low last time, relatively speaking. It's even more appropriate in the US, where it seems that elections are determined not by those who vote, but by those who do not!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0r82pjd8gpo
Don't you have to be sacked, collective responsibility and all that. Plus just cost £1bn of investment.
It isn't possible to pay full regard to this obvious truth, as it would remove a large number of PB discussion points, leaving PB only with prime numbers and pineapple on pizza to talk about. Journalism suffers from the same affliction.
People saying “ah this shows it’s all fake” are nitwits. The revelation here is the smoothness and dexterity of the robots - not plugged in, no wires, able to walk and move amongst people, and talk (even if the talking and movements were finessed by remote operators)
Eg the voice thing. That’s easily fixed, they could fix it now. We already have this tech. Put an advanced voice bot in that metal head and it will talk to you sensibly like a very polite very smart human
The only reason they DIDN’T do this is, presumably, because that tech belongs to a rival of Tesla
I personally am much more concerned about somebody like Temu or Shein than DP World (however scummy their hire and fire practice was), but it looks like the current government are going to be going full steam on trying to get China back on board.
"They can control
hurricanesrobots"https://x.com/TheGoodLiars/status/1844387504046432262
"Trump is at or near his ceiling. Harris is not."
The Polls *Are Not* Underestimating Trump This Time
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/the-polls-are-not-underestimating
Sadly, mostly behind paywall, but there's some more polling analysis at:
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/dark-maga-there-can-be-no-true-despair?r=1emko&utm_medium=ios&triedRedirect=true#footnote-1-150072668
1 There probably aren't many Conservative MPs in that space. Caroline Noakes has withdrawn from the partisan fray as Deputy Speaker. Who else is left who would have been recognised as a wet in, say, 1990, or even 2010?
2 They, we, aren't called wets without reason. Mostly, there will be grumbling and then loyalty will kick in. You see it here and elsewhere- Conservative moderates clinging to all sorts of desperate excuses and whataboutery because the alternative is Socialism.
Guardian
Didnt make them think, obviously
Apparently they also sent out a load of the invites at really short notice, as if CEO's have totally empty diaries and can drop everything with a few days notice.
Not exactly great signals. Particularly when Macron is putting these on in where he does them with full charm offensive.
The “Lord Refa” is strong with Putin.
Perhaps someone drinks tea with him, in a sinister manner?
Would a Cameron style pitch work these days? May's pitch of just keep calm and carry on, nearly allowed Corbyn to win. Even Farage was promising loads of state intervention in things (however unrealistic). Lib Dem's have tacked left. Labour are wanting to be more interventionist than Blair government. Who the f##k knows what the Tories are doing, not sure they know what they stand for these days.
However, one of the reasons that the Conservatives dominated the 20th century was that wets and dries were able to share a party, and now they aren't. And without those "nice people in nice places" votes and seats, the Conservatives are likely to struggle to assemble a winning total.
Buying a houses / having multiple kids where one partner stays at home / private schools for the kids, for working people in their 30s is not even the middle class dream anymore, its exclusively for the rich people.
But marketing…
It's relatively easy now to get humanoid robots performing sophisticated tasks within certain parameters, much trickier to do generalised intelligence due to the processing power required and to sync it all up given how many more things it needs to do when in an open environment - and do flawlessly if at an event like that.
The tech is there, it's just, as ever, getting it into a consumer-friendly, cost-effective ultra-reliable form that's the issue. So I'm not sure you'd have made 30 odd advanced prototypes so they can dance to Haddaway and impress some Tesla nerds by serving them vodkas rather than ones that can complete those tasks.
- Washing machine
- Direct debits
- Not on a pre-pay meter
- Car or bicycle
- Netflix
- Not getting housing benefit
- foreign holiday
- Home WiFi
With their lack of honesty, integrity and competence having contributed so significantly to voters’ disgust, Jenrick would indeed be a *bold* choice to try and rebuild their reputation.
The hands alone amaze me. Here’s one playing charades
https://x.com/mkbhd/status/1844911588022829438?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
Foreign holidays might not have been 10 years ago, with your £10 flights to Alicante, but all holidays have got very expensive now. Staycation in the UK is even worse for cost.
I don't mix with the proles so couldn't say.
(Jk not been abroad in years)
I know people have tried to define more than 3 classes but it doesn't seem to catch on.
Reminds me of this episode of The Big Bang Theory.
https://youtu.be/_k0bzMWFNls?si=Q8o4bE-SDh9kxkJK
It’s not a great look to be a transport secretary singling out companies for criticism when you’re just about to sign an investment deal with them, however deserved the criticism may be.
Welcome to PB by the way, and hope that you’re in favour of Ukraine winning their war.
Robot sex proved the ultimate turnoff for Howard.
The Racism I am seeing against kemi is actually just grim
Conservatives believe in meritocracy - conservatives aren’t backing kemi just because of her race (that’s what we are against) but because she’s a brilliant politician and what our party and country needs. Not this racism
https://x.com/sophielouisecc/status/1844772764311277584
The Future is Creepy
Are the middle class 10% or 90% of us?
Sorry I can't get links on the device I'm using atm.
Having a go at a company for something that happened years ago, right before they’re about to be the stars of your investment conference with an announcement of £1bn of FDI, is not recommended.
If you substantially increase the price of something suddenly while a free alternative is on offer, people will switch.
There isn't a free alternative to betting if you want to gamble.
https://youtu.be/RxV0r-Qz6dM?t=218&si=hcY6Qb3FJ3l_Mivg
But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.
Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.
Hitler never proposed taxing betting like this.
Both that they won't stand up for us against crooked business, and that Starmer has chosen a craven way of trying to resolve it. If he feels a minister is in breach of CR, he should fire her.
I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to
signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
Weird but true.
Genuine question.
The bank didn’t put out a whisper.
Same year, the bank was asked to do some more stuff for the government. At nice terms. By the same politician.