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The cunning and awesomeness of Robert Jenrick – politicalbetting.com

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  • What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    It depends on the brand.

    If it isn’t LG etc but Bush or Hisense etc.

    Also if you have a Bang and Olufsen sound system.
  • Actually i didnt realise a good patek philippe is a couple of years salary for many people. 50 to 100000 pounds. Wow.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Actually i didnt realise a good patek philippe is a couple of years salary for many people. 50 to 100000 pounds. Wow.

    Can I get the one that’s £50 please? Pretty please.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.

    But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.

    Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.

    I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to
    signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
    I'm curious about sleep analysis. If your sleep is deemed not great what action do you then take?

    Genuine question.
    I make sure I have a nap. Or I go to bed earlier, drink less coffee, exercise more so I’m properly tired

    The watch closely analyses deep/light/REM sleep. It’s fascinating all by itself. Also, my watch recognised correctly that I was utterly exhausted after Pristina/Geneva - badly sleep deprived - I might have fooled myself I was fine but the watch said Nah - my “body battery” was LOW

    So I did two days of fairly gentle outdoor exercise, got two good nights of sleep. And now I feel much
    better and all the metrics are positive

    It’s like having someone politely nagging you to look after yourself. It actually nudges your arm. So it’s a bit like a wife but more useful and less annoying
  • On topic the more I think about it this was the greatest ambush/deception since The Battle of Midway.

    Jenrick = Nimitz

    Cleverly = Yamamoto.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.

    But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.

    Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.

    I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to
    signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
    I'm curious about sleep analysis. If your sleep is deemed not great what action do you then take?

    Genuine question.
    I make sure I have a nap. Or I go to bed earlier, drink less coffee, exercise more so I’m properly tired

    The watch closely analyses deep/light/REM sleep. It’s fascinating all by itself. Also, my watch recognised correctly that I was utterly exhausted after Pristina/Geneva - badly sleep deprived - I might have fooled myself I was fine but the watch said Nah - my “body battery” was LOW

    So I did two days of fairly gentle outdoor exercise, got two good nights of sleep. And now I feel much
    better and all the metrics are positive

    It’s like having someone politely nagging you to look after yourself. It actually nudges your arm. So it’s a bit like a wife but more useful and less annoying
    no wonder your wives scarpered
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    It depends on the brand.

    If it isn’t LG etc but Bush or Hisense etc.

    Also if you have a Bang and Olufsen sound system.
    No Mr Eagles, the B&O sound system is for the top 1%.

    Fun fact, I did some work for someone who had the B&O 100” robotic TV, about 8 years ago. It must have cost £20k at the time.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Louise Haigh is right about P&O.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    On topic the more I think about it this was the greatest ambush/deception since The Battle of Midway.

    Jenrick = Nimitz

    Cleverly = Yamamoto.

    Electing Jenrick will certainly exact a toll on the Tories.
  • Sandpit said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    It depends on the brand.

    If it isn’t LG etc but Bush or Hisense etc.

    Also if you have a Bang and Olufsen sound system.
    No Mr Eagles, the B&O sound system is for the top 1%.

    Fun fact, I did some work for someone who had the B&O 100” robotic TV, about 8 years ago. It must have cost £20k at the time.
    But that cannot be right, I have a Bang & Olufsen system.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.

    But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.

    Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.

    I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to
    signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
    Welcome to the smartwatch crew! You will soon note how booze wrecks your sleep and canes your VO2 max… it’s been a real motivator for me giving up midweek drinking. Feel a lot better for it (unlike today, when I’m hungover!)
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:

    - Washing machine
    - Direct debits
    - Not on a pre-pay meter
    - Car or bicycle
    - Netflix
    - Not getting housing benefit
    - foreign holiday
    - Home WiFi

    I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now.
    10% is a lot of people. I suppose it depends where we set the middle class bar.
    Middle class for me in the general public parlance is your types shopping in Waitrose, John Lewis, etc i.e. they have the purchasing power to not have to buy the cheapest versions for everything. They probably buy a Dyson, a Miele, a Bosch for white goods, rather than whatever the cheapest Chinese one is in Currys. That sort of thing.
    I wouldn’t buy a Miele because they’re way too expensive, and I’m pretty sure I’m middle class.

    I wouldn’t buy a Dyson cos they’re a bit crap. More of a Henry fan, more draggable around the floor bouncing off the skirting.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    As a belated smart watch convert (and thanks to PB for persuading me to take the leap) I now realise these are the future

    I thought “wearable tech” was just a marketing gimmick, or a fad. It absolutely is not. As these things get better they will detect ailments and diseases waaay before any doctor, maybe before any symptoms appear

    I can imagine smart watches with the ability to examine sweat, blood, cellular changes, 24/7 and painlessly, all while telling you the time and showing your emails and reminding you your flight to Rome is boarding

    Go short on Rolex. These things are so useful people really will abandon the “jewellery” watches. Or maybe some clever company will manage to
    combine the two. A smart watch that looks as good and expensive as a Breitling
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Sandpit said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    It depends on the brand.

    If it isn’t LG etc but Bush or Hisense etc.

    Also if you have a Bang and Olufsen sound system.
    No Mr Eagles, the B&O sound system is for the top 1%.

    Fun fact, I did some work for someone who had the B&O 100” robotic TV, about 8 years ago. It must have cost £20k at the time.
    But that cannot be right, I have a Bang & Olufsen system.
    Okay, the latest ONS figure for the top 1% by salary suggests £187,000 is the line.
    https://www.projectfinanciallyfree.com/uk-income-percentile-calculator/

    I shall leave you to draw you own conclusion.
  • Leon said:

    As a belated smart watch convert (and thanks to PB for persuading me to take the leap) I now realise these are the future

    I thought “wearable tech” was just a marketing gimmick, or a fad. It absolutely is not. As these things get better they will detect ailments and diseases waaay before any doctor, maybe before any symptoms appear

    I can imagine smart watches with the ability to examine sweat, blood, cellular changes, 24/7 and painlessly, all while telling you the time and showing your emails and reminding you your flight to Rome is boarding

    Go short on Rolex. These things are so useful people really will abandon the “jewellery” watches. Or maybe some clever company will manage to
    combine the two. A smart watch that looks as good and expensive as a Breitling

    Tag and others have already entered that market.

    As we discussed the other day, they aren’t very good with Apple at the moment.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    It depends on the brand.

    If it isn’t LG etc but Bush or Hisense etc.

    Also if you have a Bang and Olufsen sound system.
    Generally the smaller the TV the posher. Ideally an old pre-LCD version that’s rarely ever turned on.

    60in definitely sounds a tad on the big side.

    Interesting fact: TV sizes are organised in inches in France. The only use of imperial measures I can think of. Napoleon would turn in his grave.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.

    But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.

    Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.

    I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to
    signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
    Welcome to the smartwatch crew! You will soon note how booze wrecks your sleep and canes your VO2 max… it’s been a real motivator for me giving up midweek drinking. Feel a lot better for it (unlike today, when I’m hungover!)
    And I’m genuinely grateful for you and others on PB persuading me to buy one

    👍🥂

    I’m intrigued tho, haven’t you got an Apple smartwatch? The everyday charging process would drive me mad. I’ve had this Garmin Venu on my arm for five days. When I opened the box it was 86% battery power. Five days later it is 48%. It looks like I will only have to charge it once every ten days, which is brilliant
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    Leon said:

    As a belated smart watch convert (and thanks to PB for persuading me to take the leap) I now realise these are the future

    I thought “wearable tech” was just a marketing gimmick, or a fad. It absolutely is not. As these things get better they will detect ailments and diseases waaay before any doctor, maybe before any symptoms appear

    I can imagine smart watches with the ability to examine sweat, blood, cellular changes, 24/7 and painlessly, all while telling you the time and showing your emails and reminding you your flight to Rome is boarding

    Go short on Rolex. These things are so useful people really will abandon the “jewellery” watches. Or maybe some clever company will manage to
    combine the two. A smart watch that looks as good and expensive as a Breitling

    The wearable tech I want is a cancer chip. Something implanted just under the skin that detects any unusual cell division in the body, locates it to the affected organ and lets out a piercing siren.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    As a belated smart watch convert (and thanks to PB for persuading me to take the leap) I now realise these are the future

    I thought “wearable tech” was just a marketing gimmick, or a fad. It absolutely is not. As these things get better they will detect ailments and diseases waaay before any doctor, maybe before any symptoms appear

    I can imagine smart watches with the ability to examine sweat, blood, cellular changes, 24/7 and painlessly, all while telling you the time and showing your emails and reminding you your flight to Rome is boarding

    Go short on Rolex. These things are so useful people really will abandon the “jewellery” watches. Or maybe some clever company will manage to
    combine the two. A smart watch that looks as good and expensive as a Breitling

    The wearable tech I want is a cancer chip. Something implanted just under the skin that detects any unusual cell division in the body, locates it to the affected organ and lets out a piercing siren.
    Yes EXACTLY. And this is surely coming very soon
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited October 12
    TimS said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    It depends on the brand.

    If it isn’t LG etc but Bush or Hisense etc.

    Also if you have a Bang and Olufsen sound system.
    Generally the smaller the TV the posher. Ideally an old pre-LCD version that’s rarely ever turned on.

    60in definitely sounds a tad on the big side.

    Interesting fact: TV sizes are organised in inches in France. The only use of imperial measures I can think of. Napoleon would turn in his grave.
    I think that is true everywhere, for whatever reason, displays, be it tvs or monitors, seem to be always marketed in inches and of course it is the diagonal measurement, not the horizontal or vertical.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    edited October 12
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.

    But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.

    Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.

    I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to
    signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
    Welcome to the smartwatch crew! You will soon note how booze wrecks your sleep and canes your VO2 max… it’s been a real motivator for me giving up midweek drinking. Feel a lot better for it (unlike today, when I’m hungover!)
    And I’m genuinely grateful for you and others on PB persuading me to buy one

    👍🥂

    I’m intrigued tho, haven’t you got an Apple smartwatch? The everyday charging process would drive me mad. I’ve had this Garmin Venu on my arm for five days. When I opened the box it was 86% battery power. Five days later it is 48%. It looks like I will only have to charge it once every ten days, which is brilliant
    With the Watch Ultra 2 you can go 4 days with a full charge.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Leon said:

    As a belated smart watch convert (and thanks to PB for persuading me to take the leap) I now realise these are the future

    I thought “wearable tech” was just a marketing gimmick, or a fad. It absolutely is not. As these things get better they will detect ailments and diseases waaay before any doctor, maybe before any symptoms appear

    I can imagine smart watches with the ability to examine sweat, blood, cellular changes, 24/7 and painlessly, all while telling you the time and showing your emails and reminding you your flight to Rome is boarding

    Go short on Rolex. These things are so useful people really will abandon the “jewellery” watches. Or maybe some clever company will manage to
    combine the two. A smart watch that looks as good and expensive as a Breitling

    The £10k Rolex you buy today, will be worth £20k in a decade’s time.

    The £500 smartwatch you buy today, will be worth nothing in a decade’s time.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.

    But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.

    Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.

    I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to
    signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
    Welcome to the smartwatch crew! You will soon note how booze wrecks your sleep and canes your VO2 max… it’s been a real motivator for me giving up midweek drinking. Feel a lot better for it (unlike today, when I’m hungover!)
    And I’m genuinely grateful for you and others on PB persuading me to buy one

    👍🥂

    I’m intrigued tho, haven’t you got an Apple smartwatch? The everyday charging process would drive me mad. I’ve had this Garmin Venu on my arm for five days. When I opened the box it was 86% battery power. Five days later it is 48%. It looks like I will only have to charge it once every ten days, which is brilliant
    Apple Watch Ultra, you only have to charge it every three days (and it takes about 40 minutes to charge from flat). You don’t notice it because you do it when getting ready in the morning.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    As a belated smart watch convert (and thanks to PB for persuading me to take the leap) I now realise these are the future

    I thought “wearable tech” was just a marketing gimmick, or a fad. It absolutely is not. As these things get better they will detect ailments and diseases waaay before any doctor, maybe before any symptoms appear

    I can imagine smart watches with the ability to examine sweat, blood, cellular changes, 24/7 and painlessly, all while telling you the time and showing your emails and reminding you your flight to Rome is boarding

    Go short on Rolex. These things are so useful people really will abandon the “jewellery” watches. Or maybe some clever company will manage to
    combine the two. A smart watch that looks as good and expensive as a Breitling

    The £10k Rolex you buy today, will be worth £20k in a decade’s time.

    The £500 smartwatch you buy today, will be worth nothing in a decade’s time.
    Unless someone swipes it!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    ydoethur said:

    On Haigh, I do have a bit of sympathy. But it once again shows that this government didn’t put enough thought into actually governing and I think a number of them still have an opposition mindset they’re finding it hard to shake.

    It’s not a great look to be a transport secretary singling out companies for criticism when you’re just about to sign an investment deal with them, however deserved the criticism may be.

    I disagree, it's a great look. If the government were more ruthless in pursuing those scum who break the law rather than rolling over to have their bellies tickled while taking the money our economy would be in a much better place.
    It's also another example of UK infrastructure being owned overseas. In isolation that's no problem, indeed to be encouraged, but it's been a strong trend for years that the growth in foreign owned assets has been marched by a relative decline in our overseas holdings.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    As a belated smart watch convert (and thanks to PB for persuading me to take the leap) I now realise these are the future

    I thought “wearable tech” was just a marketing gimmick, or a fad. It absolutely is not. As these things get better they will detect ailments and diseases waaay before any doctor, maybe before any symptoms appear

    I can imagine smart watches with the ability to examine sweat, blood, cellular changes, 24/7 and painlessly, all while telling you the time and showing your emails and reminding you your flight to Rome is boarding

    Go short on Rolex. These things are so useful people really will abandon the “jewellery” watches. Or maybe some clever company will manage to
    combine the two. A smart watch that looks as good and expensive as a Breitling

    The £10k Rolex you buy today, will be worth £20k in a decade’s time.

    The £500 smartwatch you buy today, will be worth nothing in a decade’s time.
    What about the £20 Casio?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited October 12
    If there is ever a PB get together, I can just see it now, 30 middle aged blokes all standing around in a huddle comparing features and scores on their smart watches.....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    edited October 12
    eek said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Taz said:

    Apologies if William Glenn and Sandpit have posted this already.

    Ex-Trump Official Calls Former President ‘A Total Fascist’

    The former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the Trump administration said the former president "is now the most dangerous person to this country.”


    Retired Army General, Mark Milley, who served as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under former President Donald Trump and President Joe Biden, now says Trump is a “total fascist” and “fascist to the core,” according to a forthcoming book by Bob Woodward, the famed Watergate journalist.

    “He is the most dangerous person ever,” Milley told Woodward for his book “War,” according to The Guardian. “I had suspicions when I talked to you about his mental decline and so forth, but now I realise he’s a total fascist. He is now the most dangerous person to this country.”

    “A fascist to the core,” Milley said.

    Part of Milley’s warning about Trump revolves around the former president’s promise to get revenge on his perceived political enemies. Trump has frequently told his supporters on the campaign trail: “I am your retribution.” Milley, who clashed with Trump in the White House and who has since been publicly critical of the current Republican presidential nominee, told Woodward that he’s afraid of being recalled from retirement to be court-martialled if Trump wins the election next month.


    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ex-trump-official-calls-former-president-a-total-fascist_uk_670a2f35e4b03acb5636e768

    More than a touch of Rik in The Young Ones there.

    Is Trump a fascist really ? Or is it just a word people throw around about people they don’t like.
    Well, if not fascist, then what is left is just him being unhinged. Either should disqualify him.

    It's almost impossible to listen to his stump speeches, because there is no policy content, just rambling bile. He is an extraordinarily angry old man. He lists al those who have slighted him, mixed with bald lies and inate racism.

    In the UK we have never been offered anything like Trump. It's why it is so difficult for us to comprehend his appeal. If he stood for PM in this country, he would be mocked and pilloried - point and laugh at the crazy guy. And vote for someone else.
    We hope.
    So far Trump type candidates have been the third party protest votes (mainly Farage). That may not be the case if Jenrick wins - personally he makes Bozo look like a pleasant person but we saw Mosley get close in the past
    The closest that Mosley got to power was as a policy wonk in the Labour Party.

    His various, personal, political endeavours could’t get councillors elected. Let alone MPs.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.

    But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.

    Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.

    I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to
    signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
    Welcome to the smartwatch crew! You will soon note how booze wrecks your sleep and canes your VO2 max… it’s been a real motivator for me giving up midweek drinking. Feel a lot better for it (unlike today, when I’m hungover!)
    And I’m genuinely grateful for you and others on PB persuading me to buy one

    👍🥂

    I’m intrigued tho, haven’t you got an Apple smartwatch? The everyday charging process would drive me mad. I’ve had this Garmin Venu on my arm for five days. When I opened the box it was 86% battery power. Five days later it is 48%. It looks like I will only have to charge it once every ten days, which is brilliant
    With the Watch Ultra 2 you can 4 days with a full charge.
    Even that would irritate me. I want a week at least so it feels like I can simply forget it. With this Garmin the stats say I should get 10-14 days. Superb

    However I readily concede the Apple Watches look much nicer and I envy their seamless integration with the Apple ecosystem

    It was a close call. But the health and charging thing tipped me towards Garmin
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,442
    Leon said:

    As a belated smart watch convert (and thanks to PB for persuading me to take the leap) I now realise these are the future

    I thought “wearable tech” was just a marketing gimmick, or a fad. It absolutely is not. As these things get better they will detect ailments and diseases waaay before any doctor, maybe before any symptoms appear

    I can imagine smart watches with the ability to examine sweat, blood, cellular changes, 24/7 and painlessly, all while telling you the time and showing your emails and reminding you your flight to Rome is boarding

    Go short on Rolex. These things are so useful people really will abandon the “jewellery” watches. Or maybe some clever company will manage to
    combine the two. A smart watch that looks as good and expensive as a Breitling

    Though I imagine that if you are proper elite, you don't need a watch to do those things for you. You can afford a PA and personal physician. I suspect that at some level, you don't even need to tell the time, because everyone just fits in with your schedule.

    As with horses, the less useful watches are, the more status they can signal.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    It depends on the brand.

    If it isn’t LG etc but Bush or Hisense etc.

    Also if you have a Bang and Olufsen sound system.
    No Mr Eagles, the B&O sound system is for the top 1%.

    Fun fact, I did some work for someone who had the B&O 100” robotic TV, about 8 years ago. It must have cost £20k at the time.
    But that cannot be right, I have a Bang & Olufsen system.
    Okay, the latest ONS figure for the top 1% by salary suggests £187,000 is the line.
    https://www.projectfinanciallyfree.com/uk-income-percentile-calculator/

    I shall leave you to draw you own conclusion.
    This is where I agree with Boris Johnson.

    £187,000 a year is chicken feed.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,358
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.

    But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.

    Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.

    I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to
    signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
    I'm curious about sleep analysis. If your sleep is deemed not great what action do you then take?

    Genuine question.
    Reduce alcohol intake lol
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,125
    edited October 12

    Louise Haigh is right about P&O.

    No P&O simply does what it is obliged to do - maximising shareholder profits by controlling costs. That's not a rogue operator - that's a company following the law.

    And the law exists for a reason. Consumers benefit from lower prices, and the excess labour can be redeployed elsewhere. First-year economics.

    Haigh was politically inept, economically cretinous and legally wrong. So she won't of course be sacked - she fits in very well in the curernt government.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited October 12

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    It depends on the brand.

    If it isn’t LG etc but Bush or Hisense etc.

    Also if you have a Bang and Olufsen sound system.
    No Mr Eagles, the B&O sound system is for the top 1%.

    Fun fact, I did some work for someone who had the B&O 100” robotic TV, about 8 years ago. It must have cost £20k at the time.
    But that cannot be right, I have a Bang & Olufsen system.
    Okay, the latest ONS figure for the top 1% by salary suggests £187,000 is the line.
    https://www.projectfinanciallyfree.com/uk-income-percentile-calculator/

    I shall leave you to draw you own conclusion.
    This is where I agree with Boris Johnson.

    £187,000 a year is chicken feed.
    Have you just got yourself a £3 million book deal as well?

    I wonder how well his book is doing, after a bit of publicity, all coverage seems to have died away very quickly. For the publishers to get that guaranteed advance back they are going to have to shift an incredible amount of copies at not bargain bin prices.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    On Haigh, I do have a bit of sympathy. But it once again shows that this government didn’t put enough thought into actually governing and I think a number of them still have an opposition mindset they’re finding it hard to shake.

    It’s not a great look to be a transport secretary singling out companies for criticism when you’re just about to sign an investment deal with them, however deserved the criticism may be.

    I disagree, it's a great look. If the government were more ruthless in pursuing those scum who break the law rather than rolling over to have their bellies tickled while taking the money our economy would be in a much better place.
    It's also another example of UK infrastructure being owned overseas. In isolation that's no problem, indeed to be encouraged, but it's been a strong trend for years that the growth in foreign owned assets has been marched by a relative decline in our overseas holdings.
    Well the balance of payments has to balance somehow.

    If we’re going to keep importing large piles of Chinese tat, then foreign money is going to keep taking shares in British businesses.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    As a belated smart watch convert (and thanks to PB for persuading me to take the leap) I now realise these are the future

    I thought “wearable tech” was just a marketing gimmick, or a fad. It absolutely is not. As these things get better they will detect ailments and diseases waaay before any doctor, maybe before any symptoms appear

    I can imagine smart watches with the ability to examine sweat, blood, cellular changes, 24/7 and painlessly, all while telling you the time and showing your emails and reminding you your flight to Rome is boarding

    Go short on Rolex. These things are so useful people really will abandon the “jewellery” watches. Or maybe some clever company will manage to
    combine the two. A smart watch that looks as good and expensive as a Breitling

    The £10k Rolex you buy today, will be worth £20k in a decade’s time.

    The £500 smartwatch you buy today, will be worth nothing in a decade’s time.
    Yeah but you’ll be dead from a heart attack within 8 years, a heart attack which your smartwatch would have seen coming months beforehand, enabling you to avoid death

    What do you want, to be dead but the proud owner of a £29k Patek Phillipe? Or alive and wearing the Ultrawatch 3000FGY which can actually give you orgasms?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    TimS said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    It depends on the brand.

    If it isn’t LG etc but Bush or Hisense etc.

    Also if you have a Bang and Olufsen sound system.
    Generally the smaller the TV the posher. Ideally an old pre-LCD version that’s rarely ever turned on.

    60in definitely sounds a tad on the big side.

    Interesting fact: TV sizes are organised in inches in France. The only use of imperial measures I can think of. Napoleon would turn in his grave.
    Surfboards?
  • Leon said:

    As a belated smart watch convert (and thanks to PB for persuading me to take the leap) I now realise these are the future

    I thought “wearable tech” was just a marketing gimmick, or a fad. It absolutely is not. As these things get better they will detect ailments and diseases waaay before any doctor, maybe before any symptoms appear

    I can imagine smart watches with the ability to examine sweat, blood, cellular changes, 24/7 and painlessly, all while telling you the time and showing your emails and reminding you your flight to Rome is boarding

    Go short on Rolex. These things are so useful people really will abandon the “jewellery” watches. Or maybe some clever company will manage to
    combine the two. A smart watch that looks as good and expensive as a Breitling

    Though I imagine that if you are proper elite, you don't need a watch to do those things for you. You can afford a PA and personal physician. I suspect that at some level, you don't even need to tell the time, because everyone just fits in with your schedule.

    As with horses, the less useful watches are, the more status they can signal.
    Elon Musk has apparently sold all his homes now. Thats true rich elite status unconcerned about impressions not acting like "We are considerably richer than you" from the Harry Enfield sketch. Thats for people insecure about their status and wealth.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.

    But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.

    Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.

    I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to
    signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
    Welcome to the smartwatch crew! You will soon note how booze wrecks your sleep and canes your VO2 max… it’s been a real motivator for me giving up midweek drinking. Feel a lot better for it (unlike today, when I’m hungover!)
    And I’m genuinely grateful for you and others on PB persuading me to buy one

    👍🥂

    I’m intrigued tho, haven’t you got an Apple smartwatch? The everyday charging process would drive me mad. I’ve had this Garmin Venu on my arm for five days. When I opened the box it was 86% battery power. Five days later it is 48%. It looks like I will only have to charge it once every ten days, which is brilliant
    With the Watch Ultra 2 you can 4 days with a full charge.
    Even that would irritate me. I want a week at least so it feels like I can simply forget it. With this Garmin the stats say I should get 10-14 days. Superb

    However I readily concede the Apple Watches look much nicer and I envy their seamless integration with the Apple ecosystem

    It was a close call. But the health and charging thing tipped me towards Garmin
    Can you make/receive calls on your watch if your phone is miles away or switched off?

    That alongside the health and Apple Pay functions are the key for me.

    It’s nice to know you can leave the house without your phone and wallet and still be contactable and pay for stuff.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.

    But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.

    Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.

    I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to
    signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
    I'm curious about sleep analysis. If your sleep is deemed not great what action do you then take?

    Genuine question.
    Coffee, alcohol are the two big ones.

    It’s not uncommon to see people in a spiral - they need more and more coffee during the day. Then they start drinking in the evening to get to sleep. The sleep is poor and restless, leading to feeling tired all the next day…

    Equally common, in offices is to see people switch from doing that to “No coffee, tons of waters” on doctor’s orders after a health scare.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505

    Leon said:

    As a belated smart watch convert (and thanks to PB for persuading me to take the leap) I now realise these are the future

    I thought “wearable tech” was just a marketing gimmick, or a fad. It absolutely is not. As these things get better they will detect ailments and diseases waaay before any doctor, maybe before any symptoms appear

    I can imagine smart watches with the ability to examine sweat, blood, cellular changes, 24/7 and painlessly, all while telling you the time and showing your emails and reminding you your flight to Rome is boarding

    Go short on Rolex. These things are so useful people really will abandon the “jewellery” watches. Or maybe some clever company will manage to
    combine the two. A smart watch that looks as good and expensive as a Breitling

    Though I imagine that if you are proper elite, you don't need a watch to do those things for you. You can afford a PA and personal physician. I suspect that at some level, you don't even need to tell the time, because everyone just fits in with your schedule.

    As with horses, the less useful watches are, the more status they can signal.
    Elon Musk has apparently sold all his homes now. Thats true rich elite status unconcerned about impressions not acting like "We are considerably richer than you" from the Harry Enfield sketch. Thats for people insecure about their status and wealth.
    Smells more like some sort of tax efficiency strategy to me.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,236
    TimS said:

    When I asked if Haigh had been wrong to describe the company as cowboys and suggest a boycott, he said: “Well, look, that's not the view of the government.”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0r82pjd8gpo

    Don't you have to be sacked, collective responsibility and all that. Plus just cost £1bn of investment.

    If any multinational is actually making billion pound investment decisions on the basis of what an individual politician says then they don’t have a very robust investment appraisal process.
    Yep. The government made a mistake, but it probably wasn't Haigh. It was whoever thought it was a good idea to invite DP World to its Investment Summit.

    Also not great PR for the company. If it is serious about investing in the UK it's presumably so it can make shedloads of money with its dubious practices. The government of the day doesn't owe it any favours after this.
  • kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.

    But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.

    Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.

    I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to
    signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
    I'm curious about sleep analysis. If your sleep is deemed not great what action do you then take?

    Genuine question.
    Coffee, alcohol are the two big ones.

    It’s not uncommon to see people in a spiral - they need more and more coffee during the day. Then they start drinking in the evening to get to sleep. The sleep is poor and restless, leading to feeling tired all the next day…

    Equally common, in offices is to see people switch from doing that to “No coffee, tons of waters” on doctor’s orders after a health scare.
    One or two cups of coffee a day is ideal.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,882
    edited October 12

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    It depends on the brand.

    If it isn’t LG etc but Bush or Hisense etc.

    Also if you have a Bang and Olufsen sound system.
    I'd put those down mainly to someone being a fashion victim, I'm afraid.

    I'd go for good at what it does, without the need (I hope) for ego-reinforcement.

    Of course, inverse snobbery can also be called ego-reinforcement.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Leon said:

    As a belated smart watch convert (and thanks to PB for persuading me to take the leap) I now realise these are the future

    I thought “wearable tech” was just a marketing gimmick, or a fad. It absolutely is not. As these things get better they will detect ailments and diseases waaay before any doctor, maybe before any symptoms appear

    I can imagine smart watches with the ability to examine sweat, blood, cellular changes, 24/7 and painlessly, all while telling you the time and showing your emails and reminding you your flight to Rome is boarding

    Go short on Rolex. These things are so useful people really will abandon the “jewellery” watches. Or maybe some clever company will manage to
    combine the two. A smart watch that looks as good and expensive as a Breitling

    Though I imagine that if you are proper elite, you don't need a watch to do those things for you. You can afford a PA and personal physician. I suspect that at some level, you don't even need to tell the time, because everyone just fits in with your schedule.

    As with horses, the less useful watches are, the more status they can signal.
    Elon Musk has apparently sold all his homes now. Thats true rich elite status unconcerned about impressions not acting like "We are considerably richer than you" from the Harry Enfield sketch. Thats for people insecure about their status and wealth.
    Musk sold his last house three years ago.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-sold-last-remaining-home-san-francisco-california-2021-12?op=1
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    It depends on the brand.

    If it isn’t LG etc but Bush or Hisense etc.

    Also if you have a Bang and Olufsen sound system.
    No Mr Eagles, the B&O sound system is for the top 1%.

    Fun fact, I did some work for someone who had the B&O 100” robotic TV, about 8 years ago. It must have cost £20k at the time.
    But that cannot be right, I have a Bang & Olufsen system.
    Okay, the latest ONS figure for the top 1% by salary suggests £187,000 is the line.
    https://www.projectfinanciallyfree.com/uk-income-percentile-calculator/

    I shall leave you to draw you own conclusion.
    This is where I agree with Boris Johnson.

    £187,000 a year is chicken feed.
    Have you just got yourself a £3 million book deal as well?

    I wonder how well his book is doing, after a bit of publicity, all coverage seems to have died away very quickly. For the publishers to get that guaranteed advance back they are going to have to shift an incredible amount of copies at not bargain bin prices.
    I can speak to this with authority. I know the publishers

    Its doing very well - about as well as Prince Harry’s “Spare” - which was a massive hit

    And I just checked on Amazon: its number 2

    His publishers are happy
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited October 12
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    It depends on the brand.

    If it isn’t LG etc but Bush or Hisense etc.

    Also if you have a Bang and Olufsen sound system.
    No Mr Eagles, the B&O sound system is for the top 1%.

    Fun fact, I did some work for someone who had the B&O 100” robotic TV, about 8 years ago. It must have cost £20k at the time.
    But that cannot be right, I have a Bang & Olufsen system.
    Okay, the latest ONS figure for the top 1% by salary suggests £187,000 is the line.
    https://www.projectfinanciallyfree.com/uk-income-percentile-calculator/

    I shall leave you to draw you own conclusion.
    This is where I agree with Boris Johnson.

    £187,000 a year is chicken feed.
    Have you just got yourself a £3 million book deal as well?

    I wonder how well his book is doing, after a bit of publicity, all coverage seems to have died away very quickly. For the publishers to get that guaranteed advance back they are going to have to shift an incredible amount of copies at not bargain bin prices.
    I can speak to this with authority. I know the publishers

    Its doing very well - about as well as Prince Harry’s “Spare” - which was a massive hit

    And I just checked on Amazon: its number 2

    His publishers are happy
    Shouldn't it be #1 if it was a rip roaring success? You don't need to sell mega amount these days to be top of the charts, no?

    Also they are selling it at half price.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807

    Jenrick's cunning stunts only made possible by the stupidity of his fellow Tory MPs.

    The Tories probably didn't lose enough MPs in July.

    Margaret Thatcher had a very powerful parliamentary team, led by Airey Neave, behind her leadership campaign - it wasn't just her magical charisma. It is great news that Jenrick has an equally resourceful and determined parliamentary team behind him. Unlike Truss, and frankly unlike Badenoch, he is going to build the parliamentary operation that he needs to push his changes through before charging in.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,442

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    It depends on the brand.

    If it isn’t LG etc but Bush or Hisense etc.

    Also if you have a Bang and Olufsen sound system.
    No Mr Eagles, the B&O sound system is for the top 1%.

    Fun fact, I did some work for someone who had the B&O 100” robotic TV, about 8 years ago. It must have cost £20k at the time.
    But that cannot be right, I have a Bang & Olufsen system.
    Okay, the latest ONS figure for the top 1% by salary suggests £187,000 is the line.
    https://www.projectfinanciallyfree.com/uk-income-percentile-calculator/

    I shall leave you to draw you own conclusion.
    This is where I agree with Boris Johnson.

    £187,000 a year is chicken feed.
    Have you just got yourself a £3 million book deal as well?

    I wonder how well his book is doing, after a bit of publicity, all coverage seems to have died away very quickly. For the publishers to get that guaranteed advance back they are going to have to shift an incredible amount of copies at not bargain bin prices.
    If Richard Osman is to be believed, there's not a hope in hell of making the advance back.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    As a belated smart watch convert (and thanks to PB for persuading me to take the leap) I now realise these are the future

    I thought “wearable tech” was just a marketing gimmick, or a fad. It absolutely is not. As these things get better they will detect ailments and diseases waaay before any doctor, maybe before any symptoms appear

    I can imagine smart watches with the ability to examine sweat, blood, cellular changes, 24/7 and painlessly, all while telling you the time and showing your emails and reminding you your flight to Rome is boarding

    Go short on Rolex. These things are so useful people really will abandon the “jewellery” watches. Or maybe some clever company will manage to
    combine the two. A smart watch that looks as good and expensive as a Breitling

    The £10k Rolex you buy today, will be worth £20k in a decade’s time.

    The £500 smartwatch you buy today, will be worth nothing in a decade’s time.
    Yeah but you’ll be dead from a heart attack within 8 years, a heart attack which your smartwatch would have seen coming months beforehand, enabling you to avoid death

    What do you want, to be dead but the proud owner of a £29k Patek Phillipe? Or alive and wearing the Ultrawatch 3000FGY which can actually give you orgasms?
    I seem to recall nobody really owns a Patek Phillipe, they just keep it for the next generation. So it stands to reason that death is helpful in this regard as it speeds the succession to that well coiffed 10 year old on the wooden boat by Lake Geneva, having his hair ruffled by his plutocratic father.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,437
    edited October 12
    I did a 14k run this morning, up the A1 (*) between St Neots and Huntingdon. A few notes:

    *) Very little litter.
    *) The road was closed in Little Paxton due to the recent flooding.
    *) Diesel fumes very noticeable, despite the stiff breeze.
    *) Train service back prompt, clean and not too busy. I still find it odd to think I can get to the south coast from my local station without changing trains...

    (*) There is a pavement beside the road all the way between Little Paxton and Brampton, meaning it is safe...

    Edit: the road at Little Paxton:

  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,549
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    It depends on the brand.

    If it isn’t LG etc but Bush or Hisense etc.

    Also if you have a Bang and Olufsen sound system.
    No Mr Eagles, the B&O sound system is for the top 1%.

    Fun fact, I did some work for someone who had the B&O 100” robotic TV, about 8 years ago. It must have cost £20k at the time.
    But that cannot be right, I have a Bang & Olufsen system.
    Okay, the latest ONS figure for the top 1% by salary suggests £187,000 is the line.
    https://www.projectfinanciallyfree.com/uk-income-percentile-calculator/

    I shall leave you to draw you own conclusion.
    Is that the top 1% of tax payers rather than top 1% of population? Very different.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.

    But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.

    Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.

    I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to
    signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
    Welcome to the smartwatch crew! You will soon note how booze wrecks your sleep and canes your VO2 max… it’s been a real motivator for me giving up midweek drinking. Feel a lot better for it (unlike today, when I’m hungover!)
    And I’m genuinely grateful for you and others on PB persuading me to buy one

    👍🥂

    I’m intrigued tho, haven’t you got an Apple smartwatch? The everyday charging process would drive me mad. I’ve had this Garmin Venu on my arm for five days. When I opened the box it was 86% battery power. Five days later it is 48%. It looks like I will only have to charge it once every ten days, which is brilliant
    With the Watch Ultra 2 you can 4 days with a full charge.
    Even that would irritate me. I want a week at least so it feels like I can simply forget it. With this Garmin the stats say I should get 10-14 days. Superb

    However I readily concede the Apple Watches look much nicer and I envy their seamless integration with the Apple ecosystem

    It was a close call. But the health and charging thing tipped me towards Garmin
    Can you make/receive calls on your watch if your phone is miles away or switched off?

    That alongside the health and Apple Pay functions are the key for me.

    It’s nice to know you can leave the house without your phone and wallet and still be contactable and pay for stuff.
    Yup. The cellular is amazing for running and paying for stuff where you don’t want to take a phone eg the beach!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    It depends on the brand.

    If it isn’t LG etc but Bush or Hisense etc.

    Also if you have a Bang and Olufsen sound system.
    No Mr Eagles, the B&O sound system is for the top 1%.

    Fun fact, I did some work for someone who had the B&O 100” robotic TV, about 8 years ago. It must have cost £20k at the time.
    But that cannot be right, I have a Bang & Olufsen system.
    Okay, the latest ONS figure for the top 1% by salary suggests £187,000 is the line.
    https://www.projectfinanciallyfree.com/uk-income-percentile-calculator/

    I shall leave you to draw you own conclusion.
    This is where I agree with Boris Johnson.

    £187,000 a year is chicken feed.
    Would be enough to fund WFA for 623 pensioners.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.

    But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.

    Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.

    I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to
    signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
    Welcome to the smartwatch crew! You will soon note how booze wrecks your sleep and canes your VO2 max… it’s been a real motivator for me giving up midweek drinking. Feel a lot better for it (unlike today, when I’m hungover!)
    And I’m genuinely grateful for you and others on PB persuading me to buy one

    👍🥂

    I’m intrigued tho, haven’t you got an Apple smartwatch? The everyday charging process would drive me mad. I’ve had this Garmin Venu on my arm for five days. When I opened the box it was 86% battery power. Five days later it is 48%. It looks like I will only have to charge it once every ten days, which is brilliant
    With the Watch Ultra 2 you can 4 days with a full charge.
    Even that would irritate me. I want a week at least so it feels like I can simply forget it. With this Garmin the stats say I should get 10-14 days. Superb

    However I readily concede the Apple Watches look much nicer and I envy their seamless integration with the Apple ecosystem

    It was a close call. But the health and charging thing tipped me towards Garmin
    Can you make/receive calls on your watch if your phone is miles away or switched off?

    That alongside the health and Apple Pay functions are the key for me.

    It’s nice to know you can leave the house without your phone and wallet and still be contactable and pay for stuff.
    I honestly don’t know the answer

    But then my phone is never turned off and never far away! Also, these days, I get about one phone call a week. It’s all messages and emails

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.

    But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.

    Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.

    I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to
    signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
    Welcome to the smartwatch crew! You will soon note how booze wrecks your sleep and canes your VO2 max… it’s been a real motivator for me giving up midweek drinking. Feel a lot better for it (unlike today, when I’m hungover!)
    And I’m genuinely grateful for you and others on PB persuading me to buy one

    👍🥂

    I’m intrigued tho, haven’t you got an Apple smartwatch? The everyday charging process would drive me mad. I’ve had this Garmin Venu on my arm for five days. When I opened the box it was 86% battery power. Five days later it is 48%. It looks like I will only have to charge it once every ten days, which is brilliant
    With the Watch Ultra 2 you can 4 days with a full charge.
    Even that would irritate me. I want a week at least so it feels like I can simply forget it. With this Garmin the stats say I should get 10-14 days. Superb

    However I readily concede the Apple Watches look much nicer and I envy their seamless integration with the Apple ecosystem

    It was a close call. But the health and charging thing tipped me towards Garmin
    Well presumably you have to charge your phone every day or two?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    edited October 12

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    It depends on the brand.

    If it isn’t LG etc but Bush or Hisense etc.

    Also if you have a Bang and Olufsen sound system.
    No Mr Eagles, the B&O sound system is for the top 1%.

    Fun fact, I did some work for someone who had the B&O 100” robotic TV, about 8 years ago. It must have cost £20k at the time.
    But that cannot be right, I have a Bang & Olufsen system.
    Okay, the latest ONS figure for the top 1% by salary suggests £187,000 is the line.
    https://www.projectfinanciallyfree.com/uk-income-percentile-calculator/

    I shall leave you to draw you own conclusion.
    This is where I agree with Boris Johnson.

    £187,000 a year is chicken feed.
    Have you just got yourself a £3 million book deal as well?

    I wonder how well his book is doing, after a bit of publicity, all coverage seems to have died away very quickly. For the publishers to get that guaranteed advance back they are going to have to shift an incredible amount of copies at not bargain bin prices.
    I can speak to this with authority. I know the publishers

    Its doing very well - about as well as Prince Harry’s “Spare” - which was a massive hit

    And I just checked on Amazon: its number 2

    His publishers are happy
    Shouldn't it be #1 if it was a rip roaring success? You don't need to sell mega amount these days to be top of the charts, no?
    This is #1 on Amazon in the US right now. “The Achievements of Kamala Harris”

    https://www.amazon.com/Achievements-Kamala-Harris-Jason-Dudash/dp/B0DJDHQHDX/
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112

    I did a 14k run this morning, up the A1 (*) between St Neots and Huntingdon. A few notes:

    *) Very little litter.
    *) The road was closed in Little Paxton due to the recent flooding.
    *) Diesel fumes very noticeable, despite the stiff breeze.
    *) Train service back prompt, clean and not too busy. I still find it odd to think I can get to the south coast from my local station without changing trains...

    (*) There is a pavement beside the road all the way between Little Paxton and Brampton, meaning it is safe...

    Edit: the road at Little Paxton:

    Flood damage?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.

    But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.

    Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.

    I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to
    signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
    I'm curious about sleep analysis. If your sleep is deemed not great what action do you then take?

    Genuine question.
    Coffee, alcohol are the two big ones.

    It’s not uncommon to see people in a spiral - they need more and more coffee during the day. Then they start drinking in the evening to get to sleep. The sleep is poor and restless, leading to feeling tired all the next day…

    Equally common, in offices is to see people switch from doing that to “No coffee, tons of waters” on doctor’s orders after a health scare.
    One or two cups of coffee a day is ideal.
    I sleep well when I’ve got myself properly tired in the day. Not mentally tired, physically tired. Like this week, spending all day doing knackering outdoor tasks (I’m planting the garden in France). A bottle of wine before bed hasn’t prevented a good night’s sleep.

    The best though is during the months after the birth of children. Head down on the pillow and straight to sleep. It’s like the body knows it’s going to be woken up by crying in a couple of hours so doesn’t mess about.
  • MSNBC says Trump is “recruiting men to fascism” and that they all need therapy.
    https://x.com/nataliegwinters/status/1844727604663742842
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited October 12

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.

    But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.

    Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.

    I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to
    signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
    Welcome to the smartwatch crew! You will soon note how booze wrecks your sleep and canes your VO2 max… it’s been a real motivator for me giving up midweek drinking. Feel a lot better for it (unlike today, when I’m hungover!)
    And I’m genuinely grateful for you and others on PB persuading me to buy one

    👍🥂

    I’m intrigued tho, haven’t you got an Apple smartwatch? The everyday charging process would drive me mad. I’ve had this Garmin Venu on my arm for five days. When I opened the box it was 86% battery power. Five days later it is 48%. It looks like I will only have to charge it once every ten days, which is brilliant
    With the Watch Ultra 2 you can 4 days with a full charge.
    Even that would irritate me. I want a week at least so it feels like I can simply forget it. With this Garmin the stats say I should get 10-14 days. Superb

    However I readily concede the Apple Watches look much nicer and I envy their seamless integration with the Apple ecosystem

    It was a close call. But the health and charging thing tipped me towards Garmin
    Well presumably you have to charge your phone every day or two?
    Yes and it’s fucking annoying. I have to charge my phones, my iPad and my power banks so I can do more charging on the road. Also my AirPods. It feels like I spend half a lifetime CHARGING. Constantly looking for sockets and USB outlets (especially on the road)

    The idea of adding ANOTHER device to that list was unbearable. So I didn’t. A once a fortnight charge is more like a visiting-the-recycling task as against an emptying-the-bins chore
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330

    I did a 14k run this morning, up the A1 (*) between St Neots and Huntingdon. A few notes:

    *) Very little litter.
    *) The road was closed in Little Paxton due to the recent flooding.
    *) Diesel fumes very noticeable, despite the stiff breeze.
    *) Train service back prompt, clean and not too busy. I still find it odd to think I can get to the south coast from my local station without changing trains...

    (*) There is a pavement beside the road all the way between Little Paxton and Brampton, meaning it is safe...

    Edit: the road at Little Paxton:

    Flood damage?
    Curious arrangement of setts. Not an old tramway or plateway route by any chance?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    No candidate got more than a third of the Parliamentary party behind them so that is hardly exclusive to Badenoch. She got more votes than anyone else managed. And 5 MPs who 'hate' her is hardly revealing of much. The same tactical voting thing happened with IDS supporters going to Ken Clarke to knock out Michael Portillo.

    With Jenrick one wonders among his eclectic group of supporters who the key figures would be. Kruger and O'Brien or Francois and co? I'd presume the former but the latter are unlikely to remain silent particularly if they think he's their property as a leader.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Leon said:

    As a belated smart watch convert (and thanks to PB for persuading me to take the leap) I now realise these are the future

    I thought “wearable tech” was just a marketing gimmick, or a fad. It absolutely is not. As these things get better they will detect ailments and diseases waaay before any doctor, maybe before any symptoms appear

    I can imagine smart watches with the ability to examine sweat, blood, cellular changes, 24/7 and painlessly, all while telling you the time and showing your emails and reminding you your flight to Rome is boarding

    Go short on Rolex. These things are so useful people really will abandon the “jewellery” watches. Or maybe some clever company will manage to
    combine the two. A smart watch that looks as good and expensive as a Breitling

    Though I imagine that if you are proper elite, you don't need a watch to do those things for you. You can afford a PA and personal physician. I suspect that at some level, you don't even need to tell the time, because everyone just fits in with your schedule.

    As with horses, the less useful watches are, the more status they can signal.
    Elon Musk has apparently sold all his homes now. Thats true rich elite status unconcerned about impressions not acting like "We are considerably richer than you" from the Harry Enfield sketch. Thats for people insecure about their status and wealth.
    Flashing a Lambo is a sure sign of not being that rich these days, too many rented for influencers to brag about.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807

    Jenrick wants us to leave the EUHCR so I wouldn't vote fir him. I hope Kemi isn't as loony?

    Are you not at all concerned about the 'living instrument' doctrine that means the ECHR can essentially interpret its own powers - finding the Swiss Government guilty of discrimination for its Net Zero policy for example? That is nothing to do with the post-war concept of protecting the right to family-life etc., it's a power-crazed political organisation. Some say 'reform it', some say 'derogate', Jenrick has concluded that neither are possible, so he's recommending we leave. I have been more in the derogate/ignore camp, thinking that it's too big a political fight to pick for too little immediate pay off. But he at least deserves a hearing on that.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,882
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Conscious that my middle class list earlier was more an indicator of professional middle-middle than the entry level of the middle class, here’s a more basic list for the working/middle dividing line:

    - Washing machine
    - Direct debits
    - Not on a pre-pay meter
    - Car or bicycle
    - Netflix
    - Not getting housing benefit
    - foreign holiday
    - Home WiFi

    I think pre-paid meter these days is under-class, rather than working class / middle class divide. Its only about 10% of households that have them now.
    10% is a lot of people. I suppose it depends where we set the middle class bar.
    Middle class for me in the general public parlance is your types shopping in Waitrose, John Lewis, etc i.e. they have the purchasing power to not have to buy the cheapest versions for everything. They probably buy a Dyson, a Miele, a Bosch for white goods, rather than whatever the cheapest Chinese one is in Currys. That sort of thing.
    I wouldn’t buy a Miele because they’re way too expensive, and I’m pretty sure I’m middle class.

    I wouldn’t buy a Dyson cos they’re a bit crap. More of a Henry fan, more draggable around the floor bouncing off the skirting.
    I bought a Dyson, because it was a cordless one that was recommended by an existing owner.

    It was also a refurbished one about 2 ranges behind the latest.

    Just like the Pixel 7 phone :smile: .
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,549
    It is better to describe the middle class by defining upper and lower. Can working class be middle class?

    Upper class historically would have been the landed gentry, ie not have to work for a living. That distinction today is not particularly helpful.

    Lower class would historically suggest long term unemployed or on jobs that require signing on on a daily basis. For example historically day labourer, dockworkers and seasonal agricultural labourers.

    This all suggests that middle class is not a particularly good descriptor for today's economy.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,437
    edited October 12

    I did a 14k run this morning, up the A1 (*) between St Neots and Huntingdon. A few notes:

    *) Very little litter.
    *) The road was closed in Little Paxton due to the recent flooding.
    *) Diesel fumes very noticeable, despite the stiff breeze.
    *) Train service back prompt, clean and not too busy. I still find it odd to think I can get to the south coast from my local station without changing trains...

    (*) There is a pavement beside the road all the way between Little Paxton and Brampton, meaning it is safe...

    Edit: the road at Little Paxton:

    Flood damage?
    Yeah, St Neots apparently had the highest river levels on record a couple of weeks back - though oddly, not further up or downstream.

    The raised path alongside the road was absolutely fine. :)

    Edit: it's also noticeable how the brick setts under the tarmac appear absolutely fine. It's almost as though the old ones knew how to build roads that cope with floods...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    It depends on the brand.

    If it isn’t LG etc but Bush or Hisense etc.

    Also if you have a Bang and Olufsen sound system.
    No Mr Eagles, the B&O sound system is for the top 1%.

    Fun fact, I did some work for someone who had the B&O 100” robotic TV, about 8 years ago. It must have cost £20k at the time.
    But that cannot be right, I have a Bang & Olufsen system.
    Okay, the latest ONS figure for the top 1% by salary suggests £187,000 is the line.
    https://www.projectfinanciallyfree.com/uk-income-percentile-calculator/

    I shall leave you to draw you own conclusion.
    This is where I agree with Boris Johnson.

    £187,000 a year is chicken feed.
    Have you just got yourself a £3 million book deal as well?

    I wonder how well his book is doing, after a bit of publicity, all coverage seems to have died away very quickly. For the publishers to get that guaranteed advance back they are going to have to shift an incredible amount of copies at not bargain bin prices.
    I can speak to this with authority. I know the publishers

    Its doing very well - about as well as Prince Harry’s “Spare” - which was a massive hit

    And I just checked on Amazon: its number 2

    His publishers are happy
    Shouldn't it be #1 if it was a rip roaring success? You don't need to sell mega amount these days to be top of the charts, no?

    Also they are selling it at half price.
    I know this world probably better than you

    The fact they are selling it at half price is a good sign - for Boris. It means the book is being heavily discounted by bookshops and supermarkets, because it is selling so many. By offering huge discounts on the Boris book they get the many people who want the book into their shops - where they will buy other stuff. It’s a loss leader

    To compete with this Amazon are having to discount heavily as well

    And number 2 on Amazon means a LOT of books.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    MSNBC says Trump is “recruiting men to fascism” and that they all need therapy.
    https://x.com/nataliegwinters/status/1844727604663742842

    I think sterilization would be a better idea !
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    What' the rule of thumb on tv size to be deemed as middle class? I am a bit worried my 60" one along with no smart watch might have me losing my middle class privilege membership card.

    Working class would be the biggest tv possible, as it's not a high status activity despite nearly everyone doing it. So even if all else is cheap tv will be big.

    But since big is now the standard you probably won't be able to judge lower or middle on that alone.

    Smart watch (and other status signalling electronics) is definitely middle, so you could have dropped out.

    I’m certainly not wearing my smartwatch (Venu 3) to
    signal status. It’s quite ugly. I’m wearing it because it is incredibly useful and, I hope, will keep me healthier. The sleep analysis alone is brilliant - @rcs1000 is right
    Welcome to the smartwatch crew! You will soon note how booze wrecks your sleep and canes your VO2 max… it’s been a real motivator for me giving up midweek drinking. Feel a lot better for it (unlike today, when I’m hungover!)
    And I’m genuinely grateful for you and others on PB persuading me to buy one

    👍🥂

    I’m intrigued tho, haven’t you got an Apple smartwatch? The everyday charging process would drive me mad. I’ve had this Garmin Venu on my arm for five days. When I opened the box it was 86% battery power. Five days later it is 48%. It looks like I will only have to charge it once every ten days, which is brilliant
    With the Watch Ultra 2 you can 4 days with a full charge.
    Even that would irritate me. I want a week at least so it feels like I can simply forget it. With this Garmin the stats say I should get 10-14 days. Superb

    However I readily concede the Apple Watches look much nicer and I envy their seamless integration with the Apple ecosystem

    It was a close call. But the health and charging thing tipped me towards Garmin
    Can you make/receive calls on your watch if your phone is miles away or switched off?

    That alongside the health and Apple Pay functions are the key for me.

    It’s nice to know you can leave the house without your phone and wallet and still be contactable and pay for stuff.
    Yup. The cellular is amazing for running and paying for stuff where you don’t want to take a phone eg the beach!
    You don’t need a mobile connection to make contactless payments.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    As a belated smart watch convert (and thanks to PB for persuading me to take the leap) I now realise these are the future

    I thought “wearable tech” was just a marketing gimmick, or a fad. It absolutely is not. As these things get better they will detect ailments and diseases waaay before any doctor, maybe before any symptoms appear

    I can imagine smart watches with the ability to examine sweat, blood, cellular changes, 24/7 and painlessly, all while telling you the time and showing your emails and reminding you your flight to Rome is boarding

    Go short on Rolex. These things are so useful people really will abandon the “jewellery” watches. Or maybe some clever company will manage to
    combine the two. A smart watch that looks as good and expensive as a Breitling

    The £10k Rolex you buy today, will be worth £20k in a decade’s time.

    The £500 smartwatch you buy today, will be worth nothing in a decade’s time.
    As I noted the other day, Gen Z loves a luxury watch - https://www.ft.com/content/41d0a77f-088a-4ef9-b4d0-ba813c6946bb

    It's partly instagram culture and status seeking but that article also notes that Gen Z see it as an essential 'accessory', something that says a little bit about their personality. So they often skip the obvious choices like Rolex and go for something more "them".

    When you're young, fashion and attracting a mate is important, tracking your blood pressure less so.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    I know most of PB would like to think the Boris book is a flop. It’s with a heavy heart I have to tell you, it’s not. It’s doing well. Maybe very well

    We had the same debate when half of PB claimed Boris would never get a large advance because “who cares” and “he’s finished” and - my favourite - “he’s so tainted”

    I said this was bollocks and he’d get millions. And he has
  • kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    As a belated smart watch convert (and thanks to PB for persuading me to take the leap) I now realise these are the future

    I thought “wearable tech” was just a marketing gimmick, or a fad. It absolutely is not. As these things get better they will detect ailments and diseases waaay before any doctor, maybe before any symptoms appear

    I can imagine smart watches with the ability to examine sweat, blood, cellular changes, 24/7 and painlessly, all while telling you the time and showing your emails and reminding you your flight to Rome is boarding

    Go short on Rolex. These things are so useful people really will abandon the “jewellery” watches. Or maybe some clever company will manage to
    combine the two. A smart watch that looks as good and expensive as a Breitling

    Though I imagine that if you are proper elite, you don't need a watch to do those things for you. You can afford a PA and personal physician. I suspect that at some level, you don't even need to tell the time, because everyone just fits in with your schedule.

    As with horses, the less useful watches are, the more status they can signal.
    Elon Musk has apparently sold all his homes now. Thats true rich elite status unconcerned about impressions not acting like "We are considerably richer than you" from the Harry Enfield sketch. Thats for people insecure about their status and wealth.
    Flashing a Lambo is a sure sign of not being that rich these days, too many rented for influencers to brag about.
    Cars are no longer much of a status signal now any m.r.n can lease a new bmw.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928

    Jenrick wants us to leave the EUHCR so I wouldn't vote fir him. I hope Kemi isn't as loony?

    Are you not at all concerned about the 'living instrument' doctrine that means the ECHR can essentially interpret its own powers - finding the Swiss Government guilty of discrimination for its Net Zero policy for example? That is nothing to do with the post-war concept of protecting the right to family-life etc., it's a power-crazed political organisation. Some say 'reform it', some say 'derogate', Jenrick has concluded that neither are possible, so he's recommending we leave. I have been more in the derogate/ignore camp, thinking that it's too big a political fight to pick for too little immediate pay off. But he at least deserves a hearing on that.
    You may be right but no-one wants to leave on their own.
  • Smart watches are clearly the most have products this 🎄 for centrist dads who vote Labour..😚😏
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    Leon said:

    I know most of PB would like to think the Boris book is a flop. It’s with a heavy heart I have to tell you, it’s not. It’s doing well. Maybe very well

    We had the same debate when half of PB claimed Boris would never get a large advance because “who cares” and “he’s finished” and - my favourite - “he’s so tainted”

    I said this was bollocks and he’d get millions. And he has

    Pointless fighting the tide. I remember a relative saying no-one would be interested in Tony Blair's memoirs.....

    People still buy Jeffrey Archer's books, listen to Wagner etc
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Jenrick wants us to leave the EUHCR so I wouldn't vote fir him. I hope Kemi isn't as loony?

    Are you not at all concerned about the 'living instrument' doctrine that means the ECHR can essentially interpret its own powers - finding the Swiss Government guilty of discrimination for its Net Zero policy for example? That is nothing to do with the post-war concept of protecting the right to family-life etc., it's a power-crazed political organisation. Some say 'reform it', some say 'derogate', Jenrick has concluded that neither are possible, so he's recommending we leave. I have been more in the derogate/ignore camp, thinking that it's too big a political fight to pick for too little immediate pay off. But he at least deserves a hearing on that.
    I think the biggest issue with the ECHR stuff is overegging it. It gets presented as some grand solution to things and I just struggle to see that.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807
    Fishing said:

    Louise Haigh is right about P&O.

    No P&O simply does what it is obliged to do - maximising shareholder profits by controlling costs. That's not a rogue operator - that's a company following the law.

    And the law exists for a reason. Consumers benefit from lower prices, and the excess labour can be redeployed elsewhere. First-year economics.

    Haigh was politically inept, economically cretinous and legally wrong. So she won't of course be sacked - she fits in very well in the curernt government.
    This post is contradictory. If P&O are purely operating in the interests of their shareholders, they will still build their container port regardless of Haigh's statements. Which they will.

    They do have a right to operate under the law, and others have a right to question their business practises, and others have the right to make consumer choices based on their approval or disapproval of those practises. That's the free market. It does not and should not mean that commercial entities are free from criticism.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,437
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    As a belated smart watch convert (and thanks to PB for persuading me to take the leap) I now realise these are the future

    I thought “wearable tech” was just a marketing gimmick, or a fad. It absolutely is not. As these things get better they will detect ailments and diseases waaay before any doctor, maybe before any symptoms appear

    I can imagine smart watches with the ability to examine sweat, blood, cellular changes, 24/7 and painlessly, all while telling you the time and showing your emails and reminding you your flight to Rome is boarding

    Go short on Rolex. These things are so useful people really will abandon the “jewellery” watches. Or maybe some clever company will manage to
    combine the two. A smart watch that looks as good and expensive as a Breitling

    The £10k Rolex you buy today, will be worth £20k in a decade’s time.

    The £500 smartwatch you buy today, will be worth nothing in a decade’s time.
    The £500 smartwatch may be worth nothing in a decade's time, but if I were to keep it, I'll have used it to record > ten thousand miles of running, and lots of swimming and walking. And much of that will be down to the way my watch logs my activities and encourages me.

    Most cars you buy (aside from very top-end ones) will be worth a fraction of their value in a decade. Depreciation is fine if you actually get use out of something. And I would end up not using a Rolex or fear of:
    *) Damaging it.
    *) Having it stolen
    *) Looking like the sort of tosspot who wears a Rolex. ;)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    ‪Aaron Rupar‬ ‪@atrupar.bsky.social‬
    ·
    8h
    We are in for some very dark days if Trump wins, and the first victims are going to be people of color. Trump spoke openly today of deporting legal immigrants and federal forces conducting deportation raids in blue areas. It's all on the line.

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.bsky.social/post/3l6buwej6cb2b


  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,236
    Fishing said:

    Louise Haigh is right about P&O.

    No P&O simply does what it is obliged to do - maximising shareholder profits by controlling costs. That's not a rogue operator - that's a company following the law.

    And the law exists for a reason. Consumers benefit from lower prices, and the excess labour can be redeployed elsewhere. First-year economics.

    Haigh was politically inept, economically cretinous and legally wrong. So she won't of course be sacked - she fits in very well in the curernt government.
    The CEO told a parliamentary committee the company had deliberately broken the law and he would do so again.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/mar/17/one-year-on-has-po-ferries-got-away-with-illegally-sacking-all-its-crew

    I think it's an important point because Louise Haigh is pushing through legislation that will tighten up on these practices, hence her comments. But clearly there's a left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing in this government between the Transport and Business secretaries.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Apologies if William Glenn and Sandpit have posted this already.

    Ex-Trump Official Calls Former President ‘A Total Fascist’

    The former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the Trump administration said the former president "is now the most dangerous person to this country.”


    Retired Army General, Mark Milley, who served as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under former President Donald Trump and President Joe Biden, now says Trump is a “total fascist” and “fascist to the core,” according to a forthcoming book by Bob Woodward, the famed Watergate journalist.

    “He is the most dangerous person ever,” Milley told Woodward for his book “War,” according to The Guardian. “I had suspicions when I talked to you about his mental decline and so forth, but now I realise he’s a total fascist. He is now the most dangerous person to this country.”

    “A fascist to the core,” Milley said.

    Part of Milley’s warning about Trump revolves around the former president’s promise to get revenge on his perceived political enemies. Trump has frequently told his supporters on the campaign trail: “I am your retribution.” Milley, who clashed with Trump in the White House and who has since been publicly critical of the current Republican presidential nominee, told Woodward that he’s afraid of being recalled from retirement to be court-martialled if Trump wins the election next month.


    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ex-trump-official-calls-former-president-a-total-fascist_uk_670a2f35e4b03acb5636e768

    More than a touch of Rik in The Young Ones there.

    Is Trump a fascist really ? Or is it just a word people throw around about people they don’t like.
    Making enormous efforts, including violent ones, to overthrow an election and threatening to murder senior officials who blocked him would definitely seem to me to have overtones of Fascism.

    But politically it's an inept analogy.

    Falsifies figures? Check.
    Refuses elections that give the wrong result? Check.
    Pretends to be much richer than he is? Check.
    Talks about helping the poor while doing nothing for them? Check.
    Builds grandiose projects that don't work and suck the money away from useful things? Check.

    He's not a Fascist.

    He's a Commie.
    They tend to be slightly less obsessed with race.

    "Fantasy-Impotence-Fascism: The Trump-Vance Political Theory"
    My latest piece...

    https://x.com/TimothyDSnyder/status/1837946871450415498

    "Trump's Remarks on Migrants Illustrate his Obsession with Genes" (sic)
    https://x.com/tomwatson/status/1844364260018946064

    Uncut fascist rhetoric from Stephen Miller in Reno
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1844898419191529659

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,882
    edited October 12
    Sandpit said:

    When I asked if Haigh had been wrong to describe the company as cowboys and suggest a boycott, he said: “Well, look, that's not the view of the government.”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0r82pjd8gpo

    Don't you have to be sacked, collective responsibility and all that. Plus just cost £1bn of investment.

    Is there a “first out of the Cabinet” market up yet, because Louise Haigh must be in serious danger if the PM has to clarify her remarks. DP World are not coming to the investment conference on Monday, which is slightly embarrassing, to put it mildly, for the government.
    Haigh was Shadow Minister for Transport since autumn 2021, so I don't see her being ousted this quickly unless it is something exceptional (imo this is not). And I'd expect very little before a first reshuffle.

    One lesson that Mr Starmer may learn from Mr Cameron may be to leave Senior Ministers in post. He may also learn it from the recent period of chaos.

    Also - to me anyway she is showing signs of being well on top of her brief. If there is an ear tagging for defenestration, I'd date it to after the Road Safety review is done, and before it is implemented.

    (If she is replaced, the Cycling Mafia are going to have to brainwash somebody else from scratch :smiley::wink: .)

    On a broader note, is there any relevance to when Ministers were appointed to the Shadow Cabinet as a predictor of their likely endurance in post?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Leon said:

    I know most of PB would like to think the Boris book is a flop. It’s with a heavy heart I have to tell you, it’s not. It’s doing well. Maybe very well

    We had the same debate when half of PB claimed Boris would never get a large advance because “who cares” and “he’s finished” and - my favourite - “he’s so tainted”

    I said this was bollocks and he’d get millions. And he has

    I think it was silly in the sense it was being judged like some mass market thing, rather than a political book. For the latter it seemed likely to do well.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited October 12

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    As a belated smart watch convert (and thanks to PB for persuading me to take the leap) I now realise these are the future

    I thought “wearable tech” was just a marketing gimmick, or a fad. It absolutely is not. As these things get better they will detect ailments and diseases waaay before any doctor, maybe before any symptoms appear

    I can imagine smart watches with the ability to examine sweat, blood, cellular changes, 24/7 and painlessly, all while telling you the time and showing your emails and reminding you your flight to Rome is boarding

    Go short on Rolex. These things are so useful people really will abandon the “jewellery” watches. Or maybe some clever company will manage to
    combine the two. A smart watch that looks as good and expensive as a Breitling

    The £10k Rolex you buy today, will be worth £20k in a decade’s time.

    The £500 smartwatch you buy today, will be worth nothing in a decade’s time.
    The £500 smartwatch may be worth nothing in a decade's time, but if I were to keep it, I'll have used it to record > ten thousand miles of running, and lots of swimming and walking. And much of that will be down to the way my watch logs my activities and encourages me.

    Most cars you buy (aside from very top-end ones) will be worth a fraction of their value in a decade. Depreciation is fine if you actually get use out of something. And I would end up not using a Rolex or fear of:
    *) Damaging it.
    *) Having it stolen
    *) Looking like the sort of tosspot who wears a Rolex. ;)
    Rolexes also look like shit. Vulgar bling. Tacky lumps of gold and tat

    And on that note, my Garmin Venu 3 is urging me to be active and get on with the day, so I shall

    Later, PB
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Apologies if William Glenn and Sandpit have posted this already.

    Ex-Trump Official Calls Former President ‘A Total Fascist’

    The former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the Trump administration said the former president "is now the most dangerous person to this country.”


    Retired Army General, Mark Milley, who served as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under former President Donald Trump and President Joe Biden, now says Trump is a “total fascist” and “fascist to the core,” according to a forthcoming book by Bob Woodward, the famed Watergate journalist.

    “He is the most dangerous person ever,” Milley told Woodward for his book “War,” according to The Guardian. “I had suspicions when I talked to you about his mental decline and so forth, but now I realise he’s a total fascist. He is now the most dangerous person to this country.”

    “A fascist to the core,” Milley said.

    Part of Milley’s warning about Trump revolves around the former president’s promise to get revenge on his perceived political enemies. Trump has frequently told his supporters on the campaign trail: “I am your retribution.” Milley, who clashed with Trump in the White House and who has since been publicly critical of the current Republican presidential nominee, told Woodward that he’s afraid of being recalled from retirement to be court-martialled if Trump wins the election next month.


    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ex-trump-official-calls-former-president-a-total-fascist_uk_670a2f35e4b03acb5636e768

    More than a touch of Rik in The Young Ones there.

    Is Trump a fascist really ? Or is it just a word people throw around about people they don’t like.
    Making enormous efforts, including violent ones, to overthrow an election and threatening to murder senior officials who blocked him would definitely seem to me to have overtones of Fascism.

    But politically it's an inept analogy.

    Falsifies figures? Check.
    Refuses elections that give the wrong result? Check.
    Pretends to be much richer than he is? Check.
    Talks about helping the poor while doing nothing for them? Check.
    Builds grandiose projects that don't work and suck the money away from useful things? Check.

    He's not a Fascist.

    He's a Commie.
    They tend to be slightly less obsessed with race.

    "Fantasy-Impotence-Fascism: The Trump-Vance Political Theory"
    My latest piece...

    https://x.com/TimothyDSnyder/status/1837946871450415498

    "Trump's Remarks on Migrants Illustrate his Obsession with Genes" (sic)
    https://x.com/tomwatson/status/1844364260018946064

    Uncut fascist rhetoric from Stephen Miller in Reno
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1844898419191529659

    The Soviet Union was one of the most racist states in the world, including several purges based on race.

    And that's not forgetting Apartheid South Africa, Ian Smith's Rhodesia, the United States of America and Idi Amin.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    ‪Aaron Rupar‬ ‪@atrupar.bsky.social‬
    ·
    8h
    We are in for some very dark days if Trump wins, and the first victims are going to be people of color. Trump spoke openly today of deporting legal immigrants and federal forces conducting deportation raids in blue areas. It's all on the line.

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.bsky.social/post/3l6buwej6cb2b


    No worry about illegality either, he couldn't be prosecuted even after office.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    When I asked if Haigh had been wrong to describe the company as cowboys and suggest a boycott, he said: “Well, look, that's not the view of the government.”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0r82pjd8gpo

    Don't you have to be sacked, collective responsibility and all that. Plus just cost £1bn of investment.

    Is there a “first out of the Cabinet” market up yet, because Louise Haigh must be in serious danger if the PM has to clarify her remarks. DP World are not coming to the investment conference on Monday, which is slightly embarrassing, to put it mildly, for the government.
    Haigh was Shadow Minister for Transport since autumn 2021, so I don't see her being ousted this quickly unless it is something exceptional (imo this is not). And I'd expect very little before a first reshuffle.

    One lesson that Mr Starmer may learn from Mr Cameron may be to leave Senior Ministers in post. He may also learn it from the recent period of chaos.

    Also - to me anyway she is showing signs of being well on top of her brief. If there is an ear tagging for defenestration, I'd date it to after the Road Safety review is done, and before it is implemented.

    (If she is replaced, the Cycling Mafia are going to have to brainwash someone else from scratch :smiley::wink: .)

    On a broader note, is there any relevance to when Ministers were appoint to the Shadow Cabinet as a predictor of their likely endurance in post?
    Not if you are Emily Thornberry.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,437
    Incidentally: back in the days when I used to occasionally do construction/demo work, the men used to take their watches off and put them in a pocket, or wear really cheap ones. Not just for risk of scratching/damage; but using a breaker for a while would often cause mechanical watches to delf-destruct. Even good ones.

    Whenever I hear of vibration white finger, I think of that.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    When I asked if Haigh had been wrong to describe the company as cowboys and suggest a boycott, he said: “Well, look, that's not the view of the government.”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0r82pjd8gpo

    Don't you have to be sacked, collective responsibility and all that. Plus just cost £1bn of investment.

    Is there a “first out of the Cabinet” market up yet, because Louise Haigh must be in serious danger if the PM has to clarify her remarks. DP World are not coming to the investment conference on Monday, which is slightly embarrassing, to put it mildly, for the government.
    Haigh was Shadow Minister for Transport since autumn 2021, so I don't see her being ousted this quickly unless it is something exceptional (imo this is not). And I'd expect very little before a first reshuffle.

    One lesson that Mr Starmer may learn from Mr Cameron may be to leave Senior Ministers in post. He may also learn it from the recent period of chaos.

    Also - to me anyway she is showing signs of being well on top of her brief. If there is an ear tagging for defenestration, I'd date it to after the Road Safety review is done, and before it is implemented.

    (If she is replaced, the Cycling Mafia are going to have to brainwash someone else from scratch :smiley::wink: .)

    On a broader note, is there any relevance to when Ministers were appoint to the Shadow Cabinet as a predictor of their likely endurance in post?
    Blair fired four the year after taking office - but that was in the days when the shadow cabinet was elected by the PLP.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    edited October 12
    kle4 said:

    Jenrick wants us to leave the EUHCR so I wouldn't vote fir him. I hope Kemi isn't as loony?

    Are you not at all concerned about the 'living instrument' doctrine that means the ECHR can essentially interpret its own powers - finding the Swiss Government guilty of discrimination for its Net Zero policy for example? That is nothing to do with the post-war concept of protecting the right to family-life etc., it's a power-crazed political organisation. Some say 'reform it', some say 'derogate', Jenrick has concluded that neither are possible, so he's recommending we leave. I have been more in the derogate/ignore camp, thinking that it's too big a political fight to pick for too little immediate pay off. But he at least deserves a hearing on that.
    I think the biggest issue with the ECHR stuff is overegging it. It gets presented as some grand solution to things and I just struggle to see that.
    There wouldn't be much point ditching the Human Right's Act if we were still in the ECHR. The broader problem is that we have tied ourselves in knots with countless laws that often appear so vague or general that it becomes a matter of Judicial interpretation. Leaving aside whether or not there are now a growing number of Judges who think it's their job to oversee a justice rather than legal system.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807
    kle4 said:

    Jenrick wants us to leave the EUHCR so I wouldn't vote fir him. I hope Kemi isn't as loony?

    Are you not at all concerned about the 'living instrument' doctrine that means the ECHR can essentially interpret its own powers - finding the Swiss Government guilty of discrimination for its Net Zero policy for example? That is nothing to do with the post-war concept of protecting the right to family-life etc., it's a power-crazed political organisation. Some say 'reform it', some say 'derogate', Jenrick has concluded that neither are possible, so he's recommending we leave. I have been more in the derogate/ignore camp, thinking that it's too big a political fight to pick for too little immediate pay off. But he at least deserves a hearing on that.
    I think the biggest issue with the ECHR stuff is overegging it. It gets presented as some grand solution to things and I just struggle to see that.
    Well it certainly isn't "the solution", because as we've seen with the impact of Brexit on the state, the rest of the system will fight tooth and nail to carry on as if nothing has changed. But it is potentially a necessary factor in the reforms we need to see.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    kle4 said:

    ‪Aaron Rupar‬ ‪@atrupar.bsky.social‬
    ·
    8h
    We are in for some very dark days if Trump wins, and the first victims are going to be people of color. Trump spoke openly today of deporting legal immigrants and federal forces conducting deportation raids in blue areas. It's all on the line.

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.bsky.social/post/3l6buwej6cb2b


    No worry about illegality either, he couldn't be prosecuted even after office.
    I just cannot get my head around why any non-white voter would even think about voting for him. He is being very clear what he plans.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    kle4 said:

    Jenrick wants us to leave the EUHCR so I wouldn't vote fir him. I hope Kemi isn't as loony?

    Are you not at all concerned about the 'living instrument' doctrine that means the ECHR can essentially interpret its own powers - finding the Swiss Government guilty of discrimination for its Net Zero policy for example? That is nothing to do with the post-war concept of protecting the right to family-life etc., it's a power-crazed political organisation. Some say 'reform it', some say 'derogate', Jenrick has concluded that neither are possible, so he's recommending we leave. I have been more in the derogate/ignore camp, thinking that it's too big a political fight to pick for too little immediate pay off. But he at least deserves a hearing on that.
    I think the biggest issue with the ECHR stuff is overegging it. It gets presented as some grand solution to things and I just struggle to see that.
    Well it certainly isn't "the solution", because as we've seen with the impact of Brexit on the state, the rest of the system will fight tooth and nail to carry on as if nothing has changed. But it is potentially a necessary factor in the reforms we need to see.
    So it is important that is explained carefully, otherwise it looks like a gimmick.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    kle4 said:

    ‪Aaron Rupar‬ ‪@atrupar.bsky.social‬
    ·
    8h
    We are in for some very dark days if Trump wins, and the first victims are going to be people of color. Trump spoke openly today of deporting legal immigrants and federal forces conducting deportation raids in blue areas. It's all on the line.

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.bsky.social/post/3l6buwej6cb2b


    No worry about illegality either, he couldn't be prosecuted even after office.
    I just cannot get my head around why any non-white voter would even think about voting for him. He is being very clear what he plans.
    He's increased support among black and Hispanic voters even.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited October 12
    Has anybody on PB bought Boris book? Seems like we are the target market. I am sure Scott n Paste was queuing overnight for his copy, but anybody else.

    I can't say any of the extract bits seemed that interesting.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928

    kle4 said:

    Jenrick wants us to leave the EUHCR so I wouldn't vote fir him. I hope Kemi isn't as loony?

    Are you not at all concerned about the 'living instrument' doctrine that means the ECHR can essentially interpret its own powers - finding the Swiss Government guilty of discrimination for its Net Zero policy for example? That is nothing to do with the post-war concept of protecting the right to family-life etc., it's a power-crazed political organisation. Some say 'reform it', some say 'derogate', Jenrick has concluded that neither are possible, so he's recommending we leave. I have been more in the derogate/ignore camp, thinking that it's too big a political fight to pick for too little immediate pay off. But he at least deserves a hearing on that.
    I think the biggest issue with the ECHR stuff is overegging it. It gets presented as some grand solution to things and I just struggle to see that.
    Well it certainly isn't "the solution", because as we've seen with the impact of Brexit on the state, the rest of the system will fight tooth and nail to carry on as if nothing has changed. But it is potentially a necessary factor in the reforms we need to see.
    Was it really the system's fault? Or May and Johnson's cakeism approach to Brexit?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    Has anybody on PB bought Boris book? Seems like we are the target market. I am sure Scott n Paste was queuing overnight for his copy, but anybody else.

    I can't say any of the extract bits seemed that interesting.

    There's an audiobook version read by the man himself.
This discussion has been closed.