Thank God the Tories are not in charge for this. Can you imagine the carnage while they held back for fear of alienating the Reform voters they want to bring on board for an autumn election? We got very lucky last month getting them out just in time.
Farage has disowned Tommy Robinson on twitter and 'thugs' despite saying he understands the frustrations which led to the riots.
Robinson is not happy and has told his followers to tell Farage so in his twitter comments. Priti Patel meanwhile has said Farage's comments on 2 tier policing were wrong
Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
Indeed
However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift
Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots
The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?
He may find this perception hangs around
That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
Yes, for me the problem isn't so much the pomposity - hard to disapprove of rioters without sounding pompous - or the ineffectuality - a common failing in the face of rioting - but that he seemed so equivocal about rioting until it was poor white people doing it.
These aren't poor white people. They're violent racists.
These things, sadly, are not mutually exclusive
Sure. But the poorness and whiteness isn't what's causing the problem. It's the racially aggravated violence. You'll see this when cases get to court. Nobody is going to be charged with being poor and white.
There is a clear link between the Brexit vote, the Reform vote in 2024 and these riots. Yes the riots are being inflated by bad actors on socials, but those being whipped up are the same ones who thought Brexit would fix their ills (it didn't), that Reform would fix their ills (it won't) and that immigration and immigrants are part of the problem (possibly a small part is true - if you move a million more people into a country, housing becomes scarcer and services harder to access). But rioting won't fix that.*
*Except it might fix YOUR housing for a while, at His Majesties Pleasure...
There's usually a socioeconomic context to public disorder and this is no exception. But I'm talking about the people leading and avidly participating in racially targeted violence. Attacks on Mosques, Asylum Seekers etc. These people have no legitimate cause or context for their actions. It awards them an unmerited gravitas to suggest otherwise.
Yes. I find it utterly astonishing that folk can equate seeking to burn down hotels, knowing that there are residents and staff in them, with any other form of protest that I've witnessed over the last 50 years.
It's attempted mass murder, and for all the wrongdoing witnessed on other 'protests' I've never seen anything as wicked.
I was at the BLM riots in Trafalgar Sq in 2020 and I saw multiple beatings of white people which, if the coppers hadn’t leapt in and saved the victim, would have likely turned into murder
That’s what I saw. I was there
Two days later, Starmer took the knee
Yet you still claim to have voted for Starmer last month, and not, say, for RefUK...
Do you know I don't altogether believe you.
Doesn't quite scan, does it.
So, what, now you don’t believe me? That I voted for this twat Starmer? What would I gain from lying to you about my vote?! What do I care what you think of my vote? You seriously over estimate your salience in my mind
Well your vote is at odds with your politics. So if it's true you voted Labour you either betrayed your politics or you disrespected the democratic process.
Oh good grief, could you get more pompous?
There was a serious reason for my vote, too. I want - or wanted - Starmer to have a big majority. The worst possible outcome for Britain was a feeble NOM Labour govt
I had hopes (maybe I still do) that Labour - eg - might reform the NHS. For that you need the confidence of many MPs
In the event Starmer's vote went down by more than 10,000 in Holborn & St Pancras.
The Labour vote was incredibly efficient Starmer losing 10,000 to Green / other left wing candidates really didn't matter this year.
It does show issues that Labour need to be aware of at the next election...
Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
Indeed
However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift
Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots
The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?
He may find this perception hangs around
That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
Yes, for me the problem isn't so much the pomposity - hard to disapprove of rioters without sounding pompous - or the ineffectuality - a common failing in the face of rioting - but that he seemed so equivocal about rioting until it was poor white people doing it.
These aren't poor white people. They're violent racists.
These things, sadly, are not mutually exclusive
Sure. But the poorness and whiteness isn't what's causing the problem. It's the racially aggravated violence. You'll see this when cases get to court. Nobody is going to be charged with being poor and white.
There is a clear link between the Brexit vote, the Reform vote in 2024 and these riots. Yes the riots are being inflated by bad actors on socials, but those being whipped up are the same ones who thought Brexit would fix their ills (it didn't), that Reform would fix their ills (it won't) and that immigration and immigrants are part of the problem (possibly a small part is true - if you move a million more people into a country, housing becomes scarcer and services harder to access). But rioting won't fix that.*
*Except it might fix YOUR housing for a while, at His Majesties Pleasure...
There's usually a socioeconomic context to public disorder and this is no exception. But I'm talking about the people leading and avidly participating in racially targeted violence. Attacks on Mosques, Asylum Seekers etc. These people have no legitimate cause or context for their actions. It awards them an unmerited gravitas to suggest otherwise.
Yes. I find it utterly astonishing that folk can equate seeking to burn down hotels, knowing that there are residents and staff in them, with any other form of protest that I've witnessed over the last 50 years.
It's attempted mass murder, and for all the wrongdoing witnessed on other 'protests' I've never seen anything as wicked.
I was at the BLM riots in Trafalgar Sq in 2020 and I saw multiple beatings of white people which, if the coppers hadn’t leapt in and saved the victim, would have likely turned into murder
That’s what I saw. I was there
Two days later, Starmer took the knee
Yet you still claim to have voted for Starmer last month, and not, say, for RefUK...
Do you know I don't altogether believe you.
Doesn't quite scan, does it.
So, what, now you don’t believe me? That I voted for this twat Starmer? What would I gain from lying to you about my vote?! What do I care what you think of my vote? You seriously over estimate your salience in my mind
Well your vote is at odds with your politics. So if it's true you voted Labour you either betrayed your politics or you disrespected the democratic process.
Oh good grief, could you get more pompous?
There was a serious reason for my vote, too. I want - or wanted - Starmer to have a big majority. The worst possible outcome for Britain was a feeble NOM Labour govt
I had hopes (maybe I still do) that Labour - eg - might reform the NHS. For that you need the confidence of many MPs
Ok. So there's a 'better you' which we don't have the pleasure of on here. One which isn't obsessed with race and nationhood and borders etc.
That's plausible and I'm going to plause it because it comforts me.
Do you really think the guy on here is my true persona?
Ask someone on PB that’s met me. there are a few. I come on here for debate and argument and to have my views vigorously challenged and to do the same to others. Some times I come on here just for company
Of course I am spikier on here than in real life. Do you think I rant at my friends and family about the EU or tax rates or illegal migration? But, isn’t this true of all of us? - we come on here to offload and to spar, to chat with an intensity that would be ugly or nerdy in actual human company
This is your lack of imagination showing. But it’s fine. I have just had 9 oysters in a brasserie and the world is sweet
Totally agree. When it gets boring is when you post something you think is a bit provocative and everyone says yes. Bah, boring. I want people to tell why I am wrong and give me new facts to prove it. That, along with the general good humour, is what makes this fun and worthwhile.
The best posters are those who are furthest out there, that challenge our assumptions and conceits and who have the facts, or at least some facts, to back it up. I want to think new thoughts. Its fun.
Everyone also has specialist subjects, where they can be incredibly enlightening: whether you with Scottish law, or Richard Tyndall on North Sea energy, various people on building regulations, or Nick Palmer on Swiss brothels.
Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
Indeed
However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift
Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots
The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?
He may find this perception hangs around
That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
Yes, for me the problem isn't so much the pomposity - hard to disapprove of rioters without sounding pompous - or the ineffectuality - a common failing in the face of rioting - but that he seemed so equivocal about rioting until it was poor white people doing it.
These aren't poor white people. They're violent racists.
Who probably also happen to be poor, white people.
That's disingenuous to us poor white people. Most of us don't riot.
Most men don't rape women either, yet I am assured rape is the fault of all men.
What a silly post. You're better than that 'Tubbs.
I'm not. Its been a long day.
In general I think the danger is that too many are ignoring the left behind of the country, AGAIN. Nothing makes racism right, nor rioting, but its essential to ask why things happen. Too many of my colleagues at Uni could not understand the Brexit vote because 'everyone I know voted remain'. Well yes, you know upper middle class academics.
There are many UK populations. Most are decent, kind folk. Some are not. Some are bitter, twisted, racist thugs. But a lot of people do feel left behind and feel that the country has let in too many immigrants. Thats not my opinion, but if you don't understand that viewpoint (while disagreeing) you will never understand the reasons.
My admonishment was for your "rape" comment.
I am well aware of the "left behind". They have been left behind for generations by the Labour party in Northern, Midlands, Scottish and Welsh s***holes. Hence they voted, SNP, Leave and "lent"their vote to Johnson in 2019, who also left them behind. They lent their vote to Farage in 2024 and probably 2029. He will let them down too.
When the politicians let them down the politicians look for scapegoats. The EU, foreigners, scroungers, illegal immigrants. Scoundrel like Farage buy the easy win, so we are where we are.
You say they are let down - but what exactly do they want and is it achievable?
The problem is that a lot of people want the impossible and don't understand that that is not achievable...
I go back to public funds being corruptly milked by late Labour Councillors like T. Dan Smith instead of funding civic society. Teesport smells similar, and in national government we had the PPE affair.
Teesport is a private company. Teesworks is the issue.
However both Teesworks and PPE are Tory corruption scandals - and neither have anything to do with the things the "left behind" want..
So good attempt to change your narrative but I'll repeat my previous questions
You say they (the "left behind") are let down - but what exactly do they want and is it achievable?
Of course Labour corruption is important over decades. Public funds are hijacked by Labour Councillors. T Dan Smith in Newcastle, Graham Jenkins (Richard Burton's brother) in Port Talbot in the 1970s for example. and not spent benefitted the good burghers of these local authorities.
What do the left behind want? Free stuff that they think is being given to immigrants and scroungers. People like Farage promote the lie that immigrants are given free stuff like houses and cars, not available to them.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
The person was 15 at the time - that seriously impacts the sentencing options.
What is very annoying is that the sentencing has not been published (because no one requested it) so we can't see the reasons for the actual sentence...
Anyone over the age of 10 can be given a proper sentence. Raping a 12 year old girl and getting away with a 2 year suspended sentence and 180h community service sends a terrible message to other young men and boys all over the country. This is the sort of crime that deserves and exemplary sentence, not a slap on the wrist.
And the sentence for a few irritating protests starts at basically nothing yet the JSO people got 5 years. This is the kind of sentencing that causes young men and boys to disrespect women, if raping a 12 year old girl only got him 180h community service which he probably didn't do anyway then what message are we sending to other boys and young men around his age? It's frankly a disgrace, no matter his background or ethnicity. If it was my daughter that had been raped and the rapist had got away with that slap on the wrist I'd be looking at a judicial review of sentencing guidelines.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
The person was 15 at the time - that seriously impacts the sentencing options.
What is very annoying is that the sentencing has not been published (because no one requested it) so we can't see the reasons for the actual sentence...
What’s dangerous is the fact culture war has become globalised, and we have a foreign social media platform owner directly interfering in British politics.
The next James Bond movie is 100% going to feature a Musk-alike Bond villain.
Guido is talking about Council tax switching to a proportional system of x %(0.5%) of the current value. I suspect it's going to happen because changing the bands is impossible as even he points out...
I'd say there may be some weasel words in that from Paul Staines. He's quoting a report from the CSJ, which was founded by Iain Duncan Smith, Tim Montgomerie, Mark Florman and Philippa Stroud.
Havnig said that, a switch to 0.5% of market value would be a huge improvement imo, which if it includes an abolition of Stamp Duty as proposed by its main proponents will be in the financial interests of a large majority.
The main thing I'd say for RR and KS is not to be panicked by a bit of rhetoric from the Right.
Council Tax raises £46.7 billion according to the OBR or about 1.7% of national income so not huge in the cosmic scheme of things. Not sure how which Business Rates raises - way back in 2014-15, it was twice as much as Council Tax but that's probably changed with the pamdemic.
The plan, AIUI, is 0.5% on occupied residential property and 2.5% on empty homes based on a revaluation. There are roughly 24 million homes in the UK.
Doing a crude calculation on Stodge Towers it would mean £250 extra per year.
zerohedge @zerohedge · 6m *TRUMP SAYS HE WILL DO AN INTERVIEW W/ ELON MUSK ON MONDAY NIGHT
I think it would be pretty hilarious if Musk lulls Trump in with some softball stuff but then unexpectedly pins him down on something awkward. Obviously Musk is a Trump fan compared to Harris, but he's so much richer than Trump he can do a power play and embarrass the man a little too.
There is something of Amadeus and Salieri between Josh Kerr and Jakob Ingebrigtsen. Like the film you simply cannot fail to have sympathy for the very able plodder compared to the careless arrogant genius.
I shouldn't feel this way. Kerr is not only British but Scottish from Edinburgh. I want to support him. But he's just not the sort I can empathise with.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
I don’t want to split hairs about a serious sexual assault and I agree the sentence was a joke but this is wrong. Firstly, the ringleader of the gang got 18 years for multiple rapes, this one was a minor (15 at the time) and was “only” (I feel sick typing that) convicted of three counts of sexual assault and one count of assault by penetration. The sentence was a joke but he was not convicted of multiple rape. Members of the same gang were and got heavy sentences.
So it’s not true or, at the very least, it’s missing vital context.
Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
Indeed
However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift
Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots
The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?
He may find this perception hangs around
That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
Yes, for me the problem isn't so much the pomposity - hard to disapprove of rioters without sounding pompous - or the ineffectuality - a common failing in the face of rioting - but that he seemed so equivocal about rioting until it was poor white people doing it.
These aren't poor white people. They're violent racists.
These things, sadly, are not mutually exclusive
Sure. But the poorness and whiteness isn't what's causing the problem. It's the racially aggravated violence. You'll see this when cases get to court. Nobody is going to be charged with being poor and white.
There is a clear link between the Brexit vote, the Reform vote in 2024 and these riots. Yes the riots are being inflated by bad actors on socials, but those being whipped up are the same ones who thought Brexit would fix their ills (it didn't), that Reform would fix their ills (it won't) and that immigration and immigrants are part of the problem (possibly a small part is true - if you move a million more people into a country, housing becomes scarcer and services harder to access). But rioting won't fix that.*
*Except it might fix YOUR housing for a while, at His Majesties Pleasure...
There's usually a socioeconomic context to public disorder and this is no exception. But I'm talking about the people leading and avidly participating in racially targeted violence. Attacks on Mosques, Asylum Seekers etc. These people have no legitimate cause or context for their actions. It awards them an unmerited gravitas to suggest otherwise.
Yes. I find it utterly astonishing that folk can equate seeking to burn down hotels, knowing that there are residents and staff in them, with any other form of protest that I've witnessed over the last 50 years.
It's attempted mass murder, and for all the wrongdoing witnessed on other 'protests' I've never seen anything as wicked.
I was at the BLM riots in Trafalgar Sq in 2020 and I saw multiple beatings of white people which, if the coppers hadn’t leapt in and saved the victim, would have likely turned into murder
That’s what I saw. I was there
Two days later, Starmer took the knee
Yet you still claim to have voted for Starmer last month, and not, say, for RefUK...
Do you know I don't altogether believe you.
Doesn't quite scan, does it.
So, what, now you don’t believe me? That I voted for this twat Starmer? What would I gain from lying to you about my vote?! What do I care what you think of my vote? You seriously over estimate your salience in my mind
Well your vote is at odds with your politics. So if it's true you voted Labour you either betrayed your politics or you disrespected the democratic process.
Oh good grief, could you get more pompous?
There was a serious reason for my vote, too. I want - or wanted - Starmer to have a big majority. The worst possible outcome for Britain was a feeble NOM Labour govt
I had hopes (maybe I still do) that Labour - eg - might reform the NHS. For that you need the confidence of many MPs
Ok. So there's a 'better you' which we don't have the pleasure of on here. One which isn't obsessed with race and nationhood and borders etc.
That's plausible and I'm going to plause it because it comforts me.
Do you really think the guy on here is my true persona?
Ask someone on PB that’s met me. there are a few. I come on here for debate and argument and to have my views vigorously challenged and to do the same to others. Some times I come on here just for company
Of course I am spikier on here than in real life. Do you think I rant at my friends and family about the EU or tax rates or illegal migration? But, isn’t this true of all of us? - we come on here to offload and to spar, to chat with an intensity that would be ugly or nerdy in actual human company
This is your lack of imagination showing. But it’s fine. I have just had 9 oysters in a brasserie and the world is sweet
This is a final warning @Leon. Any more of this reasonableness, and I will be forced to wave the ban hammer.
If you like, I could start talking about train lines again.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
The person was 15 at the time - that seriously impacts the sentencing options.
What is very annoying is that the sentencing has not been published (because no one requested it) so we can't see the reasons for the actual sentence...
Anyone over the age of 10 can be given a proper sentence. Raping a 12 year old girl and getting away with a 2 year suspended sentence and 180h community service sends a terrible message to other young men and boys all over the country. This is the sort of crime that deserves and exemplary sentence, not a slap on the wrist.
And the sentence for a few irritating protests starts at basically nothing yet the JSO people got 5 years. This is the kind of sentencing that causes young men and boys to disrespect women, if raping a 12 year old girl only got him 180h community service which he probably didn't do anyway then what message are we sending to other boys and young men around his age? It's frankly a disgrace, no matter his background or ethnicity. If it was my daughter that had been raped and the rapist had got away with that slap on the wrist I'd be looking at a judicial review of sentencing guidelines.
Would you report to the police your daughters rape frankly with that sort of sentencing or would you be provoked to defend her?
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
The person was 15 at the time - that seriously impacts the sentencing options.
What is very annoying is that the sentencing has not been published (because no one requested it) so we can't see the reasons for the actual sentence...
Anyone over the age of 10 can be given a proper sentence. Raping a 12 year old girl and getting away with a 2 year suspended sentence and 180h community service sends a terrible message to other young men and boys all over the country. This is the sort of crime that deserves and exemplary sentence, not a slap on the wrist.
And the sentence for a few irritating protests starts at basically nothing yet the JSO people got 5 years. This is the kind of sentencing that causes young men and boys to disrespect women, if raping a 12 year old girl only got him 180h community service which he probably didn't do anyway then what message are we sending to other boys and young men around his age? It's frankly a disgrace, no matter his background or ethnicity. If it was my daughter that had been raped and the rapist had got away with that slap on the wrist I'd be looking at a judicial review of sentencing guidelines.
As I said earlier - the problem here is that the sentencing wasn't published so we haven't a clue why this sentence was given out...
That I think is something that needs to be addressed, because otherwise it allows stories like this to be spread...
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
The person was 15 at the time - that seriously impacts the sentencing options.
What is very annoying is that the sentencing has not been published (because no one requested it) so we can't see the reasons for the actual sentence...
What’s dangerous is the fact culture war has become globalised, and we have a foreign social media platform owner directly interfering in British politics.
The next James Bond movie is 100% going to feature a Musk-alike Bond villain.
I don't think pointing out facts/sentencing is interfering. Sadly a lot of this stuff has happened, the Rotherham scandal happened and this is what is driving a lot of the anger towards migrants and in particular Muslims.
He owns the world’s largest news and politics internet platform. He deliberately and consistently amplifies disinformation accounts, and has hundreds of millions of followers. He’s a South African doing this from the USA. Of course he’s interfering.
That’s not illegal, but it’s foreign interference and it’s every bit as dangerous as Russian troll farms.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
I don’t want to split hairs about a serious sexual assault and I agree the sentence was a joke but this is wrong. Firstly, the ringleader of the gang got 18 years for multiple rapes, this one was a minor (15 at the time) and was “only” (I feel sick typing that) convicted of three counts of sexual assault and one count of assault by penetration. The sentence was a joke but he was not convicted of multiple rape. Members of the same gang were and got heavy sentences.
So it’s not true or, at the very least, it’s missing vital context.
Yes, that's the point I'm making, not the ethnicity, it's that the sentence for the crime is an absolute joke. A completely pointless slap on the wrist for a very serious offence.
Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
Indeed
However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift
Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots
The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?
He may find this perception hangs around
That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
Yes, for me the problem isn't so much the pomposity - hard to disapprove of rioters without sounding pompous - or the ineffectuality - a common failing in the face of rioting - but that he seemed so equivocal about rioting until it was poor white people doing it.
These aren't poor white people. They're violent racists.
These things, sadly, are not mutually exclusive
Sure. But the poorness and whiteness isn't what's causing the problem. It's the racially aggravated violence. You'll see this when cases get to court. Nobody is going to be charged with being poor and white.
There is a clear link between the Brexit vote, the Reform vote in 2024 and these riots. Yes the riots are being inflated by bad actors on socials, but those being whipped up are the same ones who thought Brexit would fix their ills (it didn't), that Reform would fix their ills (it won't) and that immigration and immigrants are part of the problem (possibly a small part is true - if you move a million more people into a country, housing becomes scarcer and services harder to access). But rioting won't fix that.*
*Except it might fix YOUR housing for a while, at His Majesties Pleasure...
There's usually a socioeconomic context to public disorder and this is no exception. But I'm talking about the people leading and avidly participating in racially targeted violence. Attacks on Mosques, Asylum Seekers etc. These people have no legitimate cause or context for their actions. It awards them an unmerited gravitas to suggest otherwise.
Yes. I find it utterly astonishing that folk can equate seeking to burn down hotels, knowing that there are residents and staff in them, with any other form of protest that I've witnessed over the last 50 years.
It's attempted mass murder, and for all the wrongdoing witnessed on other 'protests' I've never seen anything as wicked.
I was at the BLM riots in Trafalgar Sq in 2020 and I saw multiple beatings of white people which, if the coppers hadn’t leapt in and saved the victim, would have likely turned into murder
That’s what I saw. I was there
Two days later, Starmer took the knee
Yet you still claim to have voted for Starmer last month, and not, say, for RefUK...
Do you know I don't altogether believe you.
Doesn't quite scan, does it.
So, what, now you don’t believe me? That I voted for this twat Starmer? What would I gain from lying to you about my vote?! What do I care what you think of my vote? You seriously over estimate your salience in my mind
Well your vote is at odds with your politics. So if it's true you voted Labour you either betrayed your politics or you disrespected the democratic process.
Oh good grief, could you get more pompous?
There was a serious reason for my vote, too. I want - or wanted - Starmer to have a big majority. The worst possible outcome for Britain was a feeble NOM Labour govt
I had hopes (maybe I still do) that Labour - eg - might reform the NHS. For that you need the confidence of many MPs
Ok. So there's a 'better you' which we don't have the pleasure of on here. One which isn't obsessed with race and nationhood and borders etc.
That's plausible and I'm going to plause it because it comforts me.
Do you really think the guy on here is my true persona?
Ask someone on PB that’s met me. there are a few. I come on here for debate and argument and to have my views vigorously challenged and to do the same to others. Some times I come on here just for company
Of course I am spikier on here than in real life. Do you think I rant at my friends and family about the EU or tax rates or illegal migration? But, isn’t this true of all of us? - we come on here to offload and to spar, to chat with an intensity that would be ugly or nerdy in actual human company
This is your lack of imagination showing. But it’s fine. I have just had 9 oysters in a brasserie and the world is sweet
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
The person was 15 at the time - that seriously impacts the sentencing options.
What is very annoying is that the sentencing has not been published (because no one requested it) so we can't see the reasons for the actual sentence...
What’s dangerous is the fact culture war has become globalised, and we have a foreign social media platform owner directly interfering in British politics.
The next James Bond movie is 100% going to feature a Musk-alike Bond villain.
I don't think pointing out facts/sentencing is interfering. Sadly a lot of this stuff has happened, the Rotherham scandal happened and this is what is driving a lot of the anger towards migrants and in particular Muslims.
He owns the world’s largest news and politics internet platform. He deliberately and consistently amplifies disinformation accounts, and has hundreds of millions of followers. He’s a South African doing this from the USA. Of course he’s interfering.
That’s not illegal, but it’s foreign interference and it’s every bit as dangerous as Russian troll farms.
And this matters, as it makes Britain look shit (or shittier than we are...).
People will be seeing this, and cancelling holidays here. Or investment decisions.
True, that probably won't amount to much. But it is damage.
Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
Indeed
However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift
Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots
The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?
He may find this perception hangs around
That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
Yes, for me the problem isn't so much the pomposity - hard to disapprove of rioters without sounding pompous - or the ineffectuality - a common failing in the face of rioting - but that he seemed so equivocal about rioting until it was poor white people doing it.
These aren't poor white people. They're violent racists.
These things, sadly, are not mutually exclusive
Sure. But the poorness and whiteness isn't what's causing the problem. It's the racially aggravated violence. You'll see this when cases get to court. Nobody is going to be charged with being poor and white.
There is a clear link between the Brexit vote, the Reform vote in 2024 and these riots. Yes the riots are being inflated by bad actors on socials, but those being whipped up are the same ones who thought Brexit would fix their ills (it didn't), that Reform would fix their ills (it won't) and that immigration and immigrants are part of the problem (possibly a small part is true - if you move a million more people into a country, housing becomes scarcer and services harder to access). But rioting won't fix that.*
*Except it might fix YOUR housing for a while, at His Majesties Pleasure...
There's usually a socioeconomic context to public disorder and this is no exception. But I'm talking about the people leading and avidly participating in racially targeted violence. Attacks on Mosques, Asylum Seekers etc. These people have no legitimate cause or context for their actions. It awards them an unmerited gravitas to suggest otherwise.
Yes. I find it utterly astonishing that folk can equate seeking to burn down hotels, knowing that there are residents and staff in them, with any other form of protest that I've witnessed over the last 50 years.
It's attempted mass murder, and for all the wrongdoing witnessed on other 'protests' I've never seen anything as wicked.
I was at the BLM riots in Trafalgar Sq in 2020 and I saw multiple beatings of white people which, if the coppers hadn’t leapt in and saved the victim, would have likely turned into murder
That’s what I saw. I was there
Two days later, Starmer took the knee
Yet you still claim to have voted for Starmer last month, and not, say, for RefUK...
Do you know I don't altogether believe you.
Doesn't quite scan, does it.
So, what, now you don’t believe me? That I voted for this twat Starmer? What would I gain from lying to you about my vote?! What do I care what you think of my vote? You seriously over estimate your salience in my mind
Well your vote is at odds with your politics. So if it's true you voted Labour you either betrayed your politics or you disrespected the democratic process.
Oh good grief, could you get more pompous?
There was a serious reason for my vote, too. I want - or wanted - Starmer to have a big majority. The worst possible outcome for Britain was a feeble NOM Labour govt
I had hopes (maybe I still do) that Labour - eg - might reform the NHS. For that you need the confidence of many MPs
Ok. So there's a 'better you' which we don't have the pleasure of on here. One which isn't obsessed with race and nationhood and borders etc.
That's plausible and I'm going to plause it because it comforts me.
Do you really think the guy on here is my true persona?
Ask someone on PB that’s met me. there are a few. I come on here for debate and argument and to have my views vigorously challenged and to do the same to others. Some times I come on here just for company
Of course I am spikier on here than in real life. Do you think I rant at my friends and family about the EU or tax rates or illegal migration? But, isn’t this true of all of us? - we come on here to offload and to spar, to chat with an intensity that would be ugly or nerdy in actual human company
This is your lack of imagination showing. But it’s fine. I have just had 9 oysters in a brasserie and the world is sweet
Totally agree. When it gets boring is when you post something you think is a bit provocative and everyone says yes. Bah, boring. I want people to tell why I am wrong and give me new facts to prove it. That, along with the general good humour, is what makes this fun and worthwhile.
The best posters are those who are furthest out there, that challenge our assumptions and conceits and who have the facts, or at least some facts, to back it up. I want to think new thoughts. Its fun.
Everyone also has specialist subjects, where they can be incredibly enlightening: whether you with Scottish law, or Richard Tyndall on North Sea energy, various people on building regulations, or Nick Palmer on Swiss brothels.
A lot of people are now desperately trying to figure out what their special skill/knowledges are.
If it is something like bronze age pottery I am sorry it doesn't come up much, apart from sporadic references to the Beaker people.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
The person was 15 at the time - that seriously impacts the sentencing options.
What is very annoying is that the sentencing has not been published (because no one requested it) so we can't see the reasons for the actual sentence...
What’s dangerous is the fact culture war has become globalised, and we have a foreign social media platform owner directly interfering in British politics.
The next James Bond movie is 100% going to feature a Musk-alike Bond villain.
I don't think pointing out facts/sentencing is interfering. Sadly a lot of this stuff has happened, the Rotherham scandal happened and this is what is driving a lot of the anger towards migrants and in particular Muslims.
Willing on civil war, as well as claiming , with almost no evidence , that that the UK is structurally legally biased to minorities, is certainly interfering.
He also seems to want or think that Britain must, or will, become like the U.S in its level of conflict. It's not just interference, but, given the reach of twitter, a level of control.
Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
Indeed
However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift
Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots
The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?
He may find this perception hangs around
That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
Yes, for me the problem isn't so much the pomposity - hard to disapprove of rioters without sounding pompous - or the ineffectuality - a common failing in the face of rioting - but that he seemed so equivocal about rioting until it was poor white people doing it.
These aren't poor white people. They're violent racists.
These things, sadly, are not mutually exclusive
Sure. But the poorness and whiteness isn't what's causing the problem. It's the racially aggravated violence. You'll see this when cases get to court. Nobody is going to be charged with being poor and white.
There is a clear link between the Brexit vote, the Reform vote in 2024 and these riots. Yes the riots are being inflated by bad actors on socials, but those being whipped up are the same ones who thought Brexit would fix their ills (it didn't), that Reform would fix their ills (it won't) and that immigration and immigrants are part of the problem (possibly a small part is true - if you move a million more people into a country, housing becomes scarcer and services harder to access). But rioting won't fix that.*
*Except it might fix YOUR housing for a while, at His Majesties Pleasure...
There's usually a socioeconomic context to public disorder and this is no exception. But I'm talking about the people leading and avidly participating in racially targeted violence. Attacks on Mosques, Asylum Seekers etc. These people have no legitimate cause or context for their actions. It awards them an unmerited gravitas to suggest otherwise.
Yes. I find it utterly astonishing that folk can equate seeking to burn down hotels, knowing that there are residents and staff in them, with any other form of protest that I've witnessed over the last 50 years.
It's attempted mass murder, and for all the wrongdoing witnessed on other 'protests' I've never seen anything as wicked.
I was at the BLM riots in Trafalgar Sq in 2020 and I saw multiple beatings of white people which, if the coppers hadn’t leapt in and saved the victim, would have likely turned into murder
That’s what I saw. I was there
Two days later, Starmer took the knee
Yet you still claim to have voted for Starmer last month, and not, say, for RefUK...
Do you know I don't altogether believe you.
Doesn't quite scan, does it.
I don't have any problem believing it. @Leon loves winners, whether they are despots, crooks like Trump or psychopaths like Putin. In contrast he despise losers and Sunak was a loser. He finds losing a moral flaw, evidence of weakness. Starmer was obviously going to be the winner. Who cares what he actually stands for?
lol. There is a absolutely something in that (tho your slurs about Trump and Putin are unfair, I revile both)
But, yes, one of the less important reasons I voted for Starmer was the psychological feeling that, for the one and surely only time in my life, I would be voting for the winner, THE winner. The actual prime minister. Kir Royale Starmer
Turns out he’s rubbish but hey
This is comedy gold.
@TSE@rcs1000 I think that @Babbage9 might, just might, be the artist formerly known as...take your pick. Can we have a ruling?
Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
Indeed
However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift
Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots
The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?
He may find this perception hangs around
That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
Yes, for me the problem isn't so much the pomposity - hard to disapprove of rioters without sounding pompous - or the ineffectuality - a common failing in the face of rioting - but that he seemed so equivocal about rioting until it was poor white people doing it.
These aren't poor white people. They're violent racists.
These things, sadly, are not mutually exclusive
Sure. But the poorness and whiteness isn't what's causing the problem. It's the racially aggravated violence. You'll see this when cases get to court. Nobody is going to be charged with being poor and white.
There is a clear link between the Brexit vote, the Reform vote in 2024 and these riots. Yes the riots are being inflated by bad actors on socials, but those being whipped up are the same ones who thought Brexit would fix their ills (it didn't), that Reform would fix their ills (it won't) and that immigration and immigrants are part of the problem (possibly a small part is true - if you move a million more people into a country, housing becomes scarcer and services harder to access). But rioting won't fix that.*
*Except it might fix YOUR housing for a while, at His Majesties Pleasure...
There's usually a socioeconomic context to public disorder and this is no exception. But I'm talking about the people leading and avidly participating in racially targeted violence. Attacks on Mosques, Asylum Seekers etc. These people have no legitimate cause or context for their actions. It awards them an unmerited gravitas to suggest otherwise.
Yes. I find it utterly astonishing that folk can equate seeking to burn down hotels, knowing that there are residents and staff in them, with any other form of protest that I've witnessed over the last 50 years.
It's attempted mass murder, and for all the wrongdoing witnessed on other 'protests' I've never seen anything as wicked.
I was at the BLM riots in Trafalgar Sq in 2020 and I saw multiple beatings of white people which, if the coppers hadn’t leapt in and saved the victim, would have likely turned into murder
That’s what I saw. I was there
Two days later, Starmer took the knee
Yet you still claim to have voted for Starmer last month, and not, say, for RefUK...
Do you know I don't altogether believe you.
Doesn't quite scan, does it.
So, what, now you don’t believe me? That I voted for this twat Starmer? What would I gain from lying to you about my vote?! What do I care what you think of my vote? You seriously over estimate your salience in my mind
Well your vote is at odds with your politics. So if it's true you voted Labour you either betrayed your politics or you disrespected the democratic process.
Oh good grief, could you get more pompous?
There was a serious reason for my vote, too. I want - or wanted - Starmer to have a big majority. The worst possible outcome for Britain was a feeble NOM Labour govt
I had hopes (maybe I still do) that Labour - eg - might reform the NHS. For that you need the confidence of many MPs
Ok. So there's a 'better you' which we don't have the pleasure of on here. One which isn't obsessed with race and nationhood and borders etc.
That's plausible and I'm going to plause it because it comforts me.
Do you really think the guy on here is my true persona?
Ask someone on PB that’s met me. there are a few. I come on here for debate and argument and to have my views vigorously challenged and to do the same to others. Some times I come on here just for company
Of course I am spikier on here than in real life. Do you think I rant at my friends and family about the EU or tax rates or illegal migration? But, isn’t this true of all of us? - we come on here to offload and to spar, to chat with an intensity that would be ugly or nerdy in actual human company
This is your lack of imagination showing. But it’s fine. I have just had 9 oysters in a brasserie and the world is sweet
Ah so hide your hard right views irl?
Good call. 🙂
(if only they all did that)
I work in the arts and live (occasionally) in north London. Half my friends are filthy commies
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
I don’t want to split hairs about a serious sexual assault and I agree the sentence was a joke but this is wrong. Firstly, the ringleader of the gang got 18 years for multiple rapes, this one was a minor (15 at the time) and was “only” (I feel sick typing that) convicted of three counts of sexual assault and one count of assault by penetration. The sentence was a joke but he was not convicted of multiple rape. Members of the same gang were and got heavy sentences.
So it’s not true or, at the very least, it’s missing vital context.
What you are neglecting here though is the message that it sends out.
Young men its ok you will get community service Parents of the young girl and young girl herself....he will be told he is a naughty boy and have his wrist slapped
Then lawyers, politicians and judges wonder why most people in this country a) don't trust you, b) think the law is a joke, c) now we no longer respect the law as it no longer serves us we hold it in complete and utter contempt
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
The person was 15 at the time - that seriously impacts the sentencing options.
What is very annoying is that the sentencing has not been published (because no one requested it) so we can't see the reasons for the actual sentence...
What’s dangerous is the fact culture war has become globalised, and we have a foreign social media platform owner directly interfering in British politics.
The next James Bond movie is 100% going to feature a Musk-alike Bond villain.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
The person was 15 at the time - that seriously impacts the sentencing options.
What is very annoying is that the sentencing has not been published (because no one requested it) so we can't see the reasons for the actual sentence...
What’s dangerous is the fact culture war has become globalised, and we have a foreign social media platform owner directly interfering in British politics.
The next James Bond movie is 100% going to feature a Musk-alike Bond villain.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
I don’t want to split hairs about a serious sexual assault and I agree the sentence was a joke but this is wrong. Firstly, the ringleader of the gang got 18 years for multiple rapes, this one was a minor (15 at the time) and was “only” (I feel sick typing that) convicted of three counts of sexual assault and one count of assault by penetration. The sentence was a joke but he was not convicted of multiple rape. Members of the same gang were and got heavy sentences.
So it’s not true or, at the very least, it’s missing vital context.
Yes, that's the point I'm making, not the ethnicity, it's that the sentence for the crime is an absolute joke. A completely pointless slap on the wrist for a very serious offence.
We agree on that, but disagree on the veracity of the Tweet. Furthermore retweeting the account in question is like quoting from Mein Kampf. One or two sentences therein may be factually accurate but using the specific source speaks volumes.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
The person was 15 at the time - that seriously impacts the sentencing options.
What is very annoying is that the sentencing has not been published (because no one requested it) so we can't see the reasons for the actual sentence...
What’s dangerous is the fact culture war has become globalised, and we have a foreign social media platform owner directly interfering in British politics.
The next James Bond movie is 100% going to feature a Musk-alike Bond villain.
I don't think pointing out facts/sentencing is interfering. Sadly a lot of this stuff has happened, the Rotherham scandal happened and this is what is driving a lot of the anger towards migrants and in particular Muslims.
He owns the world’s largest news and politics internet platform. He deliberately and consistently amplifies disinformation accounts, and has hundreds of millions of followers. He’s a South African doing this from the USA. Of course he’s interfering.
That’s not illegal, but it’s foreign interference and it’s every bit as dangerous as Russian troll farms.
Honestly, if that post causes enough of an outrage to fix sentencing guidelines for rape and sexual assault so that there's no future case of serious sexual criminals getting a slap on the wrist then I don't really care how it gets achieved. If that was your daughter and her rapist walked with 180h community service what would your view be right now?
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
I don’t want to split hairs about a serious sexual assault and I agree the sentence was a joke but this is wrong. Firstly, the ringleader of the gang got 18 years for multiple rapes, this one was a minor (15 at the time) and was “only” (I feel sick typing that) convicted of three counts of sexual assault and one count of assault by penetration. The sentence was a joke but he was not convicted of multiple rape. Members of the same gang were and got heavy sentences.
So it’s not true or, at the very least, it’s missing vital context.
Yes, that's the point I'm making, not the ethnicity, it's that the sentence for the crime is an absolute joke. A completely pointless slap on the wrist for a very serious offence.
He was 15 at the time. Nonetheless a disgraceful sentence. He needs to do bird in “borstal”
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
The person was 15 at the time - that seriously impacts the sentencing options.
What is very annoying is that the sentencing has not been published (because no one requested it) so we can't see the reasons for the actual sentence...
What’s dangerous is the fact culture war has become globalised, and we have a foreign social media platform owner directly interfering in British politics.
The next James Bond movie is 100% going to feature a Musk-alike Bond villain.
Laura Kenny looks more OK than Keely, but each to his own
I'm trying to get my head back around who are active travel champions in the NW especially Manchester, and I think Dame Laura Kenny is, or has been, one of them.
I think she's had a prominent ambassadorial role in the Chris Boardman / Andy Burnham era, but I can't recall what it has been.
I keep noticing her doing significant but not especially prominent interventions, in the same style as Baroness Tanni-Grey Thompson does.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
The person was 15 at the time - that seriously impacts the sentencing options.
What is very annoying is that the sentencing has not been published (because no one requested it) so we can't see the reasons for the actual sentence...
What’s dangerous is the fact culture war has become globalised, and we have a foreign social media platform owner directly interfering in British politics.
The next James Bond movie is 100% going to feature a Musk-alike Bond villain.
What I would say is that the 1500m is the greatest race. Its not so long that it gets boring. It has tactics, sprints, stamina, its just got everything.
Seb Coe winning this was one of my favourite Olympic moments. I am so looking forward to this.
Farage blaming Andrew Tate, Patel sensing an opportunity by attacking Farage. Hmmm.
Weird, but the Conservatives might come out really well from this. If people associate Reform with the rioting, Starmer doesn't get a grip of it and the Tories shout about law and order...
Thank God the Tories are not in charge for this. Can you imagine the carnage while they held back for fear of alienating the Reform voters they want to bring on board for an autumn election? We got very lucky last month getting them out just in time.
Farage has disowned Tommy Robinson on twitter and 'thugs' despite saying he understands the frustrations which led to the riots.
Robinson is not happy and has told his followers to tell Farage so in his twitter comments. Priti Patel meanwhile has said Farage's comments on 2 tier policing were wrong
She can do that because there isn’t going to be an election for 5 years. If this had happened with an election imminent it would be a different story.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
I don’t want to split hairs about a serious sexual assault and I agree the sentence was a joke but this is wrong. Firstly, the ringleader of the gang got 18 years for multiple rapes, this one was a minor (15 at the time) and was “only” (I feel sick typing that) convicted of three counts of sexual assault and one count of assault by penetration. The sentence was a joke but he was not convicted of multiple rape. Members of the same gang were and got heavy sentences.
So it’s not true or, at the very least, it’s missing vital context.
Yes, that's the point I'm making, not the ethnicity, it's that the sentence for the crime is an absolute joke. A completely pointless slap on the wrist for a very serious offence.
We agree on that, but disagree on the veracity of the Tweet. Furthermore retweeting the account in question is like quoting from Mein Kampf. One or two sentences therein may be factually accurate but using the specific source speaks volumes.
The trouble is so much of this stuff is suppressed, or self censored, sometimes the only sources are literally places like Britain First or Tommeh or Radio Genoa, because they don’t care and they want to stir up trouble. Everyone else is too scared to say anything
Look at the recent riot tweets by head C4 Reporter Alex Thomson. He did several tweets showing obvious and brutal “Asian” attacks on lonely white victims. And he described them clearly and accurately for what they were. Later, he deleted these tweets. Why? Because, presumably, he was attacked for being “racist” or, more subtly, for “furthering far right narratives”
Ergo, if real journalists delete and self censor entirely accurate but “unhelpful” information, where else do you get the information? You are forced to rely on Nazis, or the info doesn’t come out at all
Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
Indeed
However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift
Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots
The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?
He may find this perception hangs around
That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
Yes, for me the problem isn't so much the pomposity - hard to disapprove of rioters without sounding pompous - or the ineffectuality - a common failing in the face of rioting - but that he seemed so equivocal about rioting until it was poor white people doing it.
These aren't poor white people. They're violent racists.
These things, sadly, are not mutually exclusive
Sure. But the poorness and whiteness isn't what's causing the problem. It's the racially aggravated violence. You'll see this when cases get to court. Nobody is going to be charged with being poor and white.
There is a clear link between the Brexit vote, the Reform vote in 2024 and these riots. Yes the riots are being inflated by bad actors on socials, but those being whipped up are the same ones who thought Brexit would fix their ills (it didn't), that Reform would fix their ills (it won't) and that immigration and immigrants are part of the problem (possibly a small part is true - if you move a million more people into a country, housing becomes scarcer and services harder to access). But rioting won't fix that.*
*Except it might fix YOUR housing for a while, at His Majesties Pleasure...
There's usually a socioeconomic context to public disorder and this is no exception. But I'm talking about the people leading and avidly participating in racially targeted violence. Attacks on Mosques, Asylum Seekers etc. These people have no legitimate cause or context for their actions. It awards them an unmerited gravitas to suggest otherwise.
Yes. I find it utterly astonishing that folk can equate seeking to burn down hotels, knowing that there are residents and staff in them, with any other form of protest that I've witnessed over the last 50 years.
It's attempted mass murder, and for all the wrongdoing witnessed on other 'protests' I've never seen anything as wicked.
I was at the BLM riots in Trafalgar Sq in 2020 and I saw multiple beatings of white people which, if the coppers hadn’t leapt in and saved the victim, would have likely turned into murder
That’s what I saw. I was there
Two days later, Starmer took the knee
Yet you still claim to have voted for Starmer last month, and not, say, for RefUK...
Do you know I don't altogether believe you.
Doesn't quite scan, does it.
So, what, now you don’t believe me? That I voted for this twat Starmer? What would I gain from lying to you about my vote?! What do I care what you think of my vote? You seriously over estimate your salience in my mind
Well your vote is at odds with your politics. So if it's true you voted Labour you either betrayed your politics or you disrespected the democratic process.
Oh good grief, could you get more pompous?
There was a serious reason for my vote, too. I want - or wanted - Starmer to have a big majority. The worst possible outcome for Britain was a feeble NOM Labour govt
I had hopes (maybe I still do) that Labour - eg - might reform the NHS. For that you need the confidence of many MPs
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
I don’t want to split hairs about a serious sexual assault and I agree the sentence was a joke but this is wrong. Firstly, the ringleader of the gang got 18 years for multiple rapes, this one was a minor (15 at the time) and was “only” (I feel sick typing that) convicted of three counts of sexual assault and one count of assault by penetration. The sentence was a joke but he was not convicted of multiple rape. Members of the same gang were and got heavy sentences.
So it’s not true or, at the very least, it’s missing vital context.
Yes, that's the point I'm making, not the ethnicity, it's that the sentence for the crime is an absolute joke. A completely pointless slap on the wrist for a very serious offence.
We agree on that, but disagree on the veracity of the Tweet. Furthermore retweeting the account in question is like quoting from Mein Kampf. One or two sentences therein may be factually accurate but using the specific source speaks volumes.
Can you really go to prison for 2 years for 'selling anti-immigration stickers'?
We are aware of a potential protest being organised in Nottingham on Wednesday evening.
The location has no links to the business advertised on the internet.
Officers have visited the address and it is home to an elderly person with vulnerabilities.
We don’t know who is “organising” what, TBH
Is this just going to go on and on?? I kinda expected it to end by now. This is about day 7??
Starmer can't even bring it under control, despite his Bunker Rants.
That's how shit he is.
He accused musk (fairly, to my mind) of stoking tension what that mad “civil war” tweet, but then he says “we will have a standing army ready to crack down”
A standing army? How is that different to predicting civil war? Worse, he’s the prime minister, so it’s much more important and visible
I can see why pollsters say voters are not impressed
You are aware that the UK, like nearly all countries, has a standing army?
Plus the modern police force would have been seen by the libertarian slaveowners of the American Revolution as a standing army.
Where did this "standing police force" or whatever it is phrase come from?
I'm aware of the two-tier policing talking point that was pulled out of someone's (Lee Anderson's, perhaps?) butt, but I haven't sourced the other one.
Did the PM actually say that?
As opposed to the sitting down police force, AKA traffic police.
Don't you mean the "Eternal Flames" of the police force?
So named, by the colleagues, because they never, ever, go out.
There is something of Amadeus and Salieri between Josh Kerr and Jakob Ingebrigtsen. Like the film you simply cannot fail to have sympathy for the very able plodder compared to the careless arrogant genius.
I shouldn't feel this way. Kerr is not only British but Scottish from Edinburgh. I want to support him. But he's just not the sort I can empathise with.
Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
Indeed
However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift
Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots
The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?
He may find this perception hangs around
That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
Yes, for me the problem isn't so much the pomposity - hard to disapprove of rioters without sounding pompous - or the ineffectuality - a common failing in the face of rioting - but that he seemed so equivocal about rioting until it was poor white people doing it.
These aren't poor white people. They're violent racists.
These things, sadly, are not mutually exclusive
Sure. But the poorness and whiteness isn't what's causing the problem. It's the racially aggravated violence. You'll see this when cases get to court. Nobody is going to be charged with being poor and white.
There is a clear link between the Brexit vote, the Reform vote in 2024 and these riots. Yes the riots are being inflated by bad actors on socials, but those being whipped up are the same ones who thought Brexit would fix their ills (it didn't), that Reform would fix their ills (it won't) and that immigration and immigrants are part of the problem (possibly a small part is true - if you move a million more people into a country, housing becomes scarcer and services harder to access). But rioting won't fix that.*
*Except it might fix YOUR housing for a while, at His Majesties Pleasure...
There's usually a socioeconomic context to public disorder and this is no exception. But I'm talking about the people leading and avidly participating in racially targeted violence. Attacks on Mosques, Asylum Seekers etc. These people have no legitimate cause or context for their actions. It awards them an unmerited gravitas to suggest otherwise.
Yes. I find it utterly astonishing that folk can equate seeking to burn down hotels, knowing that there are residents and staff in them, with any other form of protest that I've witnessed over the last 50 years.
It's attempted mass murder, and for all the wrongdoing witnessed on other 'protests' I've never seen anything as wicked.
I was at the BLM riots in Trafalgar Sq in 2020 and I saw multiple beatings of white people which, if the coppers hadn’t leapt in and saved the victim, would have likely turned into murder
That’s what I saw. I was there
Two days later, Starmer took the knee
Yet you still claim to have voted for Starmer last month, and not, say, for RefUK...
Do you know I don't altogether believe you.
Doesn't quite scan, does it.
So, what, now you don’t believe me? That I voted for this twat Starmer? What would I gain from lying to you about my vote?! What do I care what you think of my vote? You seriously over estimate your salience in my mind
Well your vote is at odds with your politics. So if it's true you voted Labour you either betrayed your politics or you disrespected the democratic process.
Oh good grief, could you get more pompous?
There was a serious reason for my vote, too. I want - or wanted - Starmer to have a big majority. The worst possible outcome for Britain was a feeble NOM Labour govt
I had hopes (maybe I still do) that Labour - eg - might reform the NHS. For that you need the confidence of many MPs
Ok. So there's a 'better you' which we don't have the pleasure of on here. One which isn't obsessed with race and nationhood and borders etc.
That's plausible and I'm going to plause it because it comforts me.
Do you really think the guy on here is my true persona?
Ask someone on PB that’s met me. there are a few. I come on here for debate and argument and to have my views vigorously challenged and to do the same to others. Some times I come on here just for company
Of course I am spikier on here than in real life. Do you think I rant at my friends and family about the EU or tax rates or illegal migration? But, isn’t this true of all of us? - we come on here to offload and to spar, to chat with an intensity that would be ugly or nerdy in actual human company
This is your lack of imagination showing. But it’s fine. I have just had 9 oysters in a brasserie and the world is sweet
Ah so hide your hard right views irl?
Good call. 🙂
(if only they all did that)
I've discovered being too diplomatic about one's views can be problematic as well. I've now got an acquaintance who seemed to presume I am sympathetic to his GB News Trump supporting stances. I kept my mouth shut when he talked about the interesting things RFK Jr and Andrew Bridgen had to say about vaccines, but I had to interrupt when he insisted on going on about the Ukrainian backed genocide of Russians.
Walz has two great advantages as a politician: He is not a lawyer -- and he is a winning football coach. (Most Americans dislike lawyers -- and love winning coaches, especially football coaches.) "After returning, Walz took a job teaching and coaching in Alliance, Nebraska, where he met his wife, Gwen Whipple, a fellow teacher.[11] He and Gwen married in 1994, and moved two years later to Mankato in Minnesota, his wife's home state,[11] where he worked as a geography teacher and coach at Mankato West High School.[10] He coached the football team to its first state championship in 1999." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Walz
And, then there is this: "Walz was ranked the 7th-most bipartisan House member during the 114th Congress (and the most bipartisan member from Minnesota) in the Bipartisan Index created by The Lugar Center and the McCourt School of Public Policy, which ranks members of Congress by measuring how often their bills attract co-sponsors from the opposite party and how often they co-sponsor bills by members of the opposite party."
Good comment. Neither part of the "liberal elitist" tag is going to stick.
Early signs are that the Trump campaign is already flailing around, trying to find an effective attack.
I quite like the "first non-lawyer on a Democratic ticket since Jimmy Carter" line.
Average blood pressure in the posh bit of Sheffield increases a little.
It isn't a good idea for Dems to mention Jimmy Carter.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
The person was 15 at the time - that seriously impacts the sentencing options.
What is very annoying is that the sentencing has not been published (because no one requested it) so we can't see the reasons for the actual sentence...
Anyone over the age of 10 can be given a proper sentence. Raping a 12 year old girl and getting away with a 2 year suspended sentence and 180h community service sends a terrible message to other young men and boys all over the country. This is the sort of crime that deserves and exemplary sentence, not a slap on the wrist.
And the sentence for a few irritating protests starts at basically nothing yet the JSO people got 5 years. This is the kind of sentencing that causes young men and boys to disrespect women, if raping a 12 year old girl only got him 180h community service which he probably didn't do anyway then what message are we sending to other boys and young men around his age? It's frankly a disgrace, no matter his background or ethnicity. If it was my daughter that had been raped and the rapist had got away with that slap on the wrist I'd be looking at a judicial review of sentencing guidelines.
There is no evidence he didn’t do the 180h of community service. Don’t make stuff up.
Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
Indeed
However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift
Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots
The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?
He may find this perception hangs around
That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
Yes, for me the problem isn't so much the pomposity - hard to disapprove of rioters without sounding pompous - or the ineffectuality - a common failing in the face of rioting - but that he seemed so equivocal about rioting until it was poor white people doing it.
These aren't poor white people. They're violent racists.
These things, sadly, are not mutually exclusive
Sure. But the poorness and whiteness isn't what's causing the problem. It's the racially aggravated violence. You'll see this when cases get to court. Nobody is going to be charged with being poor and white.
There is a clear link between the Brexit vote, the Reform vote in 2024 and these riots. Yes the riots are being inflated by bad actors on socials, but those being whipped up are the same ones who thought Brexit would fix their ills (it didn't), that Reform would fix their ills (it won't) and that immigration and immigrants are part of the problem (possibly a small part is true - if you move a million more people into a country, housing becomes scarcer and services harder to access). But rioting won't fix that.*
*Except it might fix YOUR housing for a while, at His Majesties Pleasure...
There's usually a socioeconomic context to public disorder and this is no exception. But I'm talking about the people leading and avidly participating in racially targeted violence. Attacks on Mosques, Asylum Seekers etc. These people have no legitimate cause or context for their actions. It awards them an unmerited gravitas to suggest otherwise.
Yes. I find it utterly astonishing that folk can equate seeking to burn down hotels, knowing that there are residents and staff in them, with any other form of protest that I've witnessed over the last 50 years.
It's attempted mass murder, and for all the wrongdoing witnessed on other 'protests' I've never seen anything as wicked.
I was at the BLM riots in Trafalgar Sq in 2020 and I saw multiple beatings of white people which, if the coppers hadn’t leapt in and saved the victim, would have likely turned into murder
That’s what I saw. I was there
Two days later, Starmer took the knee
Yet you still claim to have voted for Starmer last month, and not, say, for RefUK...
Do you know I don't altogether believe you.
Doesn't quite scan, does it.
So, what, now you don’t believe me? That I voted for this twat Starmer? What would I gain from lying to you about my vote?! What do I care what you think of my vote? You seriously over estimate your salience in my mind
Well your vote is at odds with your politics. So if it's true you voted Labour you either betrayed your politics or you disrespected the democratic process.
Oh good grief, could you get more pompous?
There was a serious reason for my vote, too. I want - or wanted - Starmer to have a big majority. The worst possible outcome for Britain was a feeble NOM Labour govt
I had hopes (maybe I still do) that Labour - eg - might reform the NHS. For that you need the confidence of many MPs
You think, in your own way, that you’re not ?
I will admit to many terrible flaws. Narcissism, exhibitionism, manias, obsessionality, arrogance, etc
But pomposity? No, I don’t think that’s me, not in the sense of stiff, ostentatious self importance or moral conceit - which is how I view the word
Walz has two great advantages as a politician: He is not a lawyer -- and he is a winning football coach. (Most Americans dislike lawyers -- and love winning coaches, especially football coaches.) "After returning, Walz took a job teaching and coaching in Alliance, Nebraska, where he met his wife, Gwen Whipple, a fellow teacher.[11] He and Gwen married in 1994, and moved two years later to Mankato in Minnesota, his wife's home state,[11] where he worked as a geography teacher and coach at Mankato West High School.[10] He coached the football team to its first state championship in 1999." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Walz
And, then there is this: "Walz was ranked the 7th-most bipartisan House member during the 114th Congress (and the most bipartisan member from Minnesota) in the Bipartisan Index created by The Lugar Center and the McCourt School of Public Policy, which ranks members of Congress by measuring how often their bills attract co-sponsors from the opposite party and how often they co-sponsor bills by members of the opposite party."
Good comment. Neither part of the "liberal elitist" tag is going to stick.
Early signs are that the Trump campaign is already flailing around, trying to find an effective attack.
I quite like the "first non-lawyer on a Democratic ticket since Jimmy Carter" line.
Average blood pressure in the posh bit of Sheffield increases a little.
It isn't a good idea for Dems to mention Jimmy Carter.
What’s your problem with Carter ?
I think Carter is one of those politicians for whom you look more fondly on their time after they have left office.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
I don’t want to split hairs about a serious sexual assault and I agree the sentence was a joke but this is wrong. Firstly, the ringleader of the gang got 18 years for multiple rapes, this one was a minor (15 at the time) and was “only” (I feel sick typing that) convicted of three counts of sexual assault and one count of assault by penetration. The sentence was a joke but he was not convicted of multiple rape. Members of the same gang were and got heavy sentences.
So it’s not true or, at the very least, it’s missing vital context.
Yes, that's the point I'm making, not the ethnicity, it's that the sentence for the crime is an absolute joke. A completely pointless slap on the wrist for a very serious offence.
We agree on that, but disagree on the veracity of the Tweet. Furthermore retweeting the account in question is like quoting from Mein Kampf. One or two sentences therein may be factually accurate but using the specific source speaks volumes.
Can you really go to prison for 2 years for 'selling anti-immigration stickers'?
It was an extended campaign of activity, including stickers.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
The person was 15 at the time - that seriously impacts the sentencing options.
What is very annoying is that the sentencing has not been published (because no one requested it) so we can't see the reasons for the actual sentence...
Anyone over the age of 10 can be given a proper sentence. Raping a 12 year old girl and getting away with a 2 year suspended sentence and 180h community service sends a terrible message to other young men and boys all over the country. This is the sort of crime that deserves and exemplary sentence, not a slap on the wrist.
And the sentence for a few irritating protests starts at basically nothing yet the JSO people got 5 years. This is the kind of sentencing that causes young men and boys to disrespect women, if raping a 12 year old girl only got him 180h community service which he probably didn't do anyway then what message are we sending to other boys and young men around his age? It's frankly a disgrace, no matter his background or ethnicity. If it was my daughter that had been raped and the rapist had got away with that slap on the wrist I'd be looking at a judicial review of sentencing guidelines.
There is no evidence he didn’t do the 180h of community service. Don’t make stuff up.
Currently only 44% of community service orders actually start. So there's more than a 1 in 2 chance he didn't do it.
There is something of Amadeus and Salieri between Josh Kerr and Jakob Ingebrigtsen. Like the film you simply cannot fail to have sympathy for the very able plodder compared to the careless arrogant genius.
I shouldn't feel this way. Kerr is not only British but Scottish from Edinburgh. I want to support him. But he's just not the sort I can empathise with.
Ambivalent.
You empathise with the careless arrogant genius?
No, and neither of them won. They tried to make this race was all about them and Hocker sneaks in and wins. Ingebrigtsen ran himself out of it by trying to run the sprint out of Kerr. Kerr didn't leave enough by trying to stay with him. Hocker was perfect.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
I've heard on here he's a genius though!
I have just read the X account he has linked to. It is appalling. Full of racism and in particular unfiltered antisemitism. No subtlety. Blatant. So what the hell is Musk doing?
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
The person was 15 at the time - that seriously impacts the sentencing options.
What is very annoying is that the sentencing has not been published (because no one requested it) so we can't see the reasons for the actual sentence...
Anyone over the age of 10 can be given a proper sentence. Raping a 12 year old girl and getting away with a 2 year suspended sentence and 180h community service sends a terrible message to other young men and boys all over the country. This is the sort of crime that deserves and exemplary sentence, not a slap on the wrist.
And the sentence for a few irritating protests starts at basically nothing yet the JSO people got 5 years. This is the kind of sentencing that causes young men and boys to disrespect women, if raping a 12 year old girl only got him 180h community service which he probably didn't do anyway then what message are we sending to other boys and young men around his age? It's frankly a disgrace, no matter his background or ethnicity. If it was my daughter that had been raped and the rapist had got away with that slap on the wrist I'd be looking at a judicial review of sentencing guidelines.
There is no evidence he didn’t do the 180h of community service. Don’t make stuff up.
Currently only 44% of community service orders actually start. So there's more than a 1 in 2 chance he didn't do it.
Keeley is the real deal. Not just the best 800m runner in the world but a really personable and relatable person (for a super hero). There are always a lot of stars in an Olympic year but for me she is nailed on SPOTY.
Keeley is already odds-on favourite for SPotY but the shortlisting committee can do some bizarre things in Olympics years.
There is something of Amadeus and Salieri between Josh Kerr and Jakob Ingebrigtsen. Like the film you simply cannot fail to have sympathy for the very able plodder compared to the careless arrogant genius.
I shouldn't feel this way. Kerr is not only British but Scottish from Edinburgh. I want to support him. But he's just not the sort I can empathise with.
Ambivalent.
You empathise with the careless arrogant genius?
At least someone empathises with me, don’t knock it
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
The person was 15 at the time - that seriously impacts the sentencing options.
What is very annoying is that the sentencing has not been published (because no one requested it) so we can't see the reasons for the actual sentence...
Anyone over the age of 10 can be given a proper sentence. Raping a 12 year old girl and getting away with a 2 year suspended sentence and 180h community service sends a terrible message to other young men and boys all over the country. This is the sort of crime that deserves and exemplary sentence, not a slap on the wrist.
And the sentence for a few irritating protests starts at basically nothing yet the JSO people got 5 years. This is the kind of sentencing that causes young men and boys to disrespect women, if raping a 12 year old girl only got him 180h community service which he probably didn't do anyway then what message are we sending to other boys and young men around his age? It's frankly a disgrace, no matter his background or ethnicity. If it was my daughter that had been raped and the rapist had got away with that slap on the wrist I'd be looking at a judicial review of sentencing guidelines.
There is no evidence he didn’t do the 180h of community service. Don’t make stuff up.
Currently only 44% of community service orders actually start. So there's more than a 1 in 2 chance he didn't do it.
What happens to the other 56%?
They don't start within the 12 months in which they're supposed to be completed.
There is something of Amadeus and Salieri between Josh Kerr and Jakob Ingebrigtsen. Like the film you simply cannot fail to have sympathy for the very able plodder compared to the careless arrogant genius.
I shouldn't feel this way. Kerr is not only British but Scottish from Edinburgh. I want to support him. But he's just not the sort I can empathise with.
Ambivalent.
You empathise with the careless arrogant genius?
No, and neither of them won. They tried to make this race was all about them and Hocker sneaks in and wins. Ingebrigtsen ran himself out of it by trying to run the sprint out of Kerr. Kerr didn't leave enough by trying to stay with him. Hocker was perfect.
And Ingebrigtsen ran out wide to force Kerr even wider. Thus creating the gap for Hocker to go through. However. That's a GB record for Josh Kerr.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
The person was 15 at the time - that seriously impacts the sentencing options.
What is very annoying is that the sentencing has not been published (because no one requested it) so we can't see the reasons for the actual sentence...
Anyone over the age of 10 can be given a proper sentence. Raping a 12 year old girl and getting away with a 2 year suspended sentence and 180h community service sends a terrible message to other young men and boys all over the country. This is the sort of crime that deserves and exemplary sentence, not a slap on the wrist.
And the sentence for a few irritating protests starts at basically nothing yet the JSO people got 5 years. This is the kind of sentencing that causes young men and boys to disrespect women, if raping a 12 year old girl only got him 180h community service which he probably didn't do anyway then what message are we sending to other boys and young men around his age? It's frankly a disgrace, no matter his background or ethnicity. If it was my daughter that had been raped and the rapist had got away with that slap on the wrist I'd be looking at a judicial review of sentencing guidelines.
There is no evidence he didn’t do the 180h of community service. Don’t make stuff up.
Currently only 44% of community service orders actually start. So there's more than a 1 in 2 chance he didn't do it.
Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
Indeed
However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift
Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots
The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?
He may find this perception hangs around
That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
Yes, for me the problem isn't so much the pomposity - hard to disapprove of rioters without sounding pompous - or the ineffectuality - a common failing in the face of rioting - but that he seemed so equivocal about rioting until it was poor white people doing it.
These aren't poor white people. They're violent racists.
These things, sadly, are not mutually exclusive
Sure. But the poorness and whiteness isn't what's causing the problem. It's the racially aggravated violence. You'll see this when cases get to court. Nobody is going to be charged with being poor and white.
There is a clear link between the Brexit vote, the Reform vote in 2024 and these riots. Yes the riots are being inflated by bad actors on socials, but those being whipped up are the same ones who thought Brexit would fix their ills (it didn't), that Reform would fix their ills (it won't) and that immigration and immigrants are part of the problem (possibly a small part is true - if you move a million more people into a country, housing becomes scarcer and services harder to access). But rioting won't fix that.*
*Except it might fix YOUR housing for a while, at His Majesties Pleasure...
There's usually a socioeconomic context to public disorder and this is no exception. But I'm talking about the people leading and avidly participating in racially targeted violence. Attacks on Mosques, Asylum Seekers etc. These people have no legitimate cause or context for their actions. It awards them an unmerited gravitas to suggest otherwise.
Yes. I find it utterly astonishing that folk can equate seeking to burn down hotels, knowing that there are residents and staff in them, with any other form of protest that I've witnessed over the last 50 years.
It's attempted mass murder, and for all the wrongdoing witnessed on other 'protests' I've never seen anything as wicked.
I was at the BLM riots in Trafalgar Sq in 2020 and I saw multiple beatings of white people which, if the coppers hadn’t leapt in and saved the victim, would have likely turned into murder
That’s what I saw. I was there
Two days later, Starmer took the knee
Yet you still claim to have voted for Starmer last month, and not, say, for RefUK...
Do you know I don't altogether believe you.
Doesn't quite scan, does it.
So, what, now you don’t believe me? That I voted for this twat Starmer? What would I gain from lying to you about my vote?! What do I care what you think of my vote? You seriously over estimate your salience in my mind
Well your vote is at odds with your politics. So if it's true you voted Labour you either betrayed your politics or you disrespected the democratic process.
Oh good grief, could you get more pompous?
There was a serious reason for my vote, too. I want - or wanted - Starmer to have a big majority. The worst possible outcome for Britain was a feeble NOM Labour govt
I had hopes (maybe I still do) that Labour - eg - might reform the NHS. For that you need the confidence of many MPs
Ok. So there's a 'better you' which we don't have the pleasure of on here. One which isn't obsessed with race and nationhood and borders etc.
That's plausible and I'm going to plause it because it comforts me.
Do you really think the guy on here is my true persona?
Ask someone on PB that’s met me. there are a few. I come on here for debate and argument and to have my views vigorously challenged and to do the same to others. Some times I come on here just for company
Of course I am spikier on here than in real life. Do you think I rant at my friends and family about the EU or tax rates or illegal migration? But, isn’t this true of all of us? - we come on here to offload and to spar, to chat with an intensity that would be ugly or nerdy in actual human company
This is your lack of imagination showing. But it’s fine. I have just had 9 oysters in a brasserie and the world is sweet
Pretty well, yes. Online persona, sure; but it’s all you.
Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
Indeed
However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift
Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots
The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?
He may find this perception hangs around
That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
Yes, for me the problem isn't so much the pomposity - hard to disapprove of rioters without sounding pompous - or the ineffectuality - a common failing in the face of rioting - but that he seemed so equivocal about rioting until it was poor white people doing it.
These aren't poor white people. They're violent racists.
These things, sadly, are not mutually exclusive
Sure. But the poorness and whiteness isn't what's causing the problem. It's the racially aggravated violence. You'll see this when cases get to court. Nobody is going to be charged with being poor and white.
There is a clear link between the Brexit vote, the Reform vote in 2024 and these riots. Yes the riots are being inflated by bad actors on socials, but those being whipped up are the same ones who thought Brexit would fix their ills (it didn't), that Reform would fix their ills (it won't) and that immigration and immigrants are part of the problem (possibly a small part is true - if you move a million more people into a country, housing becomes scarcer and services harder to access). But rioting won't fix that.*
*Except it might fix YOUR housing for a while, at His Majesties Pleasure...
There's usually a socioeconomic context to public disorder and this is no exception. But I'm talking about the people leading and avidly participating in racially targeted violence. Attacks on Mosques, Asylum Seekers etc. These people have no legitimate cause or context for their actions. It awards them an unmerited gravitas to suggest otherwise.
Yes. I find it utterly astonishing that folk can equate seeking to burn down hotels, knowing that there are residents and staff in them, with any other form of protest that I've witnessed over the last 50 years.
It's attempted mass murder, and for all the wrongdoing witnessed on other 'protests' I've never seen anything as wicked.
I was at the BLM riots in Trafalgar Sq in 2020 and I saw multiple beatings of white people which, if the coppers hadn’t leapt in and saved the victim, would have likely turned into murder
That’s what I saw. I was there
Two days later, Starmer took the knee
Yet you still claim to have voted for Starmer last month, and not, say, for RefUK...
Do you know I don't altogether believe you.
Doesn't quite scan, does it.
I don't have any problem believing it. @Leon loves winners, whether they are despots, crooks like Trump or psychopaths like Putin. In contrast he despise losers and Sunak was a loser. He finds losing a moral flaw, evidence of weakness. Starmer was obviously going to be the winner. Who cares what he actually stands for?
lol. There is a absolutely something in that (tho your slurs about Trump and Putin are unfair, I revile both)
But, yes, one of the less important reasons I voted for Starmer was the psychological feeling that, for the one and surely only time in my life, I would be voting for the winner, THE winner. The actual prime minister. Kir Royale Starmer
Turns out he’s rubbish but hey
This is comedy gold.
@TSE@rcs1000 I think that @Babbage9 might, just might, be the artist formerly known as...take your pick. Can we have a ruling?
It could just be someone who's paying homage?
Like Oasis with the Beatles as it were?
Ah hello!
Should we settle our £20 bet then?
Yes - congrats!
Let me know how you'd like to go about settling it.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
The person was 15 at the time - that seriously impacts the sentencing options.
What is very annoying is that the sentencing has not been published (because no one requested it) so we can't see the reasons for the actual sentence...
Anyone over the age of 10 can be given a proper sentence. Raping a 12 year old girl and getting away with a 2 year suspended sentence and 180h community service sends a terrible message to other young men and boys all over the country. This is the sort of crime that deserves and exemplary sentence, not a slap on the wrist.
And the sentence for a few irritating protests starts at basically nothing yet the JSO people got 5 years. This is the kind of sentencing that causes young men and boys to disrespect women, if raping a 12 year old girl only got him 180h community service which he probably didn't do anyway then what message are we sending to other boys and young men around his age? It's frankly a disgrace, no matter his background or ethnicity. If it was my daughter that had been raped and the rapist had got away with that slap on the wrist I'd be looking at a judicial review of sentencing guidelines.
There is no evidence he didn’t do the 180h of community service. Don’t make stuff up.
Currently only 44% of community service orders actually start. So there's more than a 1 in 2 chance he didn't do it.
What happens to the other 56%?
They don't start within the 12 months in which they're supposed to be completed.
I wonder what proportion is that because the system is failing and what proportion is because those people get banged up for something else in the mean time?
We are aware of a potential protest being organised in Nottingham on Wednesday evening.
The location has no links to the business advertised on the internet.
Officers have visited the address and it is home to an elderly person with vulnerabilities.
We don’t know who is “organising” what, TBH
Is this just going to go on and on?? I kinda expected it to end by now. This is about day 7??
Starmer can't even bring it under control, despite his Bunker Rants.
That's how shit he is.
He accused musk (fairly, to my mind) of stoking tension what that mad “civil war” tweet, but then he says “we will have a standing army ready to crack down”
A standing army? How is that different to predicting civil war? Worse, he’s the prime minister, so it’s much more important and visible
I can see why pollsters say voters are not impressed
You are aware that the UK, like nearly all countries, has a standing army?
Plus the modern police force would have been seen by the libertarian slaveowners of the American Revolution as a standing army.
Where did this "standing police force" or whatever it is phrase come from?
I'm aware of the two-tier policing talking point that was pulled out of someone's (Lee Anderson's, perhaps?) butt, but I haven't sourced the other one.
Did the PM actually say that?
As far as I am aware no. IIRC he has stated that there will be police reinforcements on standby to be sent to troubleshoots.
Which has been a thing in dealing with widespread disorder, since before the General Strike.
Who can forget the Met's SPG (or why it was disbanded)?
There is already a prison officer equivalent, more needed since the government had the brilliant idea of pensioning off experienced prison officers and handing over to G4S and a bunch of kids. Oh wait, they've effectively done that with the police too.
There is something of Amadeus and Salieri between Josh Kerr and Jakob Ingebrigtsen. Like the film you simply cannot fail to have sympathy for the very able plodder compared to the careless arrogant genius.
I shouldn't feel this way. Kerr is not only British but Scottish from Edinburgh. I want to support him. But he's just not the sort I can empathise with.
Ambivalent.
You empathise with the careless arrogant genius?
No, and neither of them won. They tried to make this race was all about them and Hocker sneaks in and wins. Ingebrigtsen ran himself out of it by trying to run the sprint out of Kerr. Kerr didn't leave enough by trying to stay with him. Hocker was perfect.
And Ingebrigtsen ran out wide to force Kerr even wider. Thus creating the gap for Hocker to go through. However. That's a GB record for Josh Kerr.
Guido is talking about Council tax switching to a proportional system of x %(0.5%) of the current value. I suspect it's going to happen because changing the bands is impossible as even he points out...
I'd say there may be some weasel words in that from Paul Staines. He's quoting a report from the CSJ, which was founded by Iain Duncan Smith, Tim Montgomerie, Mark Florman and Philippa Stroud.
Havnig said that, a switch to 0.5% of market value would be a huge improvement imo, which if it includes an abolition of Stamp Duty as proposed by its main proponents will be in the financial interests of a large majority.
The main thing I'd say for RR and KS is not to be panicked by a bit of rhetoric from the Right.
Council Tax raises £46.7 billion according to the OBR or about 1.7% of national income so not huge in the cosmic scheme of things. Not sure how which Business Rates raises - way back in 2014-15, it was twice as much as Council Tax but that's probably changed with the pamdemic.
The plan, AIUI, is 0.5% on occupied residential property and 2.5% on empty homes based on a revaluation. There are roughly 24 million homes in the UK.
Doing a crude calculation on Stodge Towers it would mean £250 extra per year.
The % of Council Revenue coming from Council Tax has increased, at the same time as funding levels have been restricted.
That is because Councils have been kept on a starvation diet since ~2010, in both England and Scotland. But more so in England. In Scotland (one of our North Britons such as @Eabhal will tell us) I believe they had a freeze in cash terms for 6-7 consecutive years.
If we want effective and capable Councils they need a fairly big funding boost, and it will take time to build capacity.
I'd say that conservatively Local Authorities need a funding boost from current levels of something like a quarter to a third in the short term, just for recovery to 2010 levels.
Are there any other gold medal chances for Team GB in the athletics?
The team leaning on your shovel, drinking a cup of tea while watching and apprentice do all the work event
I definitely think I saw our gold medal hopes for that event earlier today....resurfacing a car park, one bloke vaping who appeared to be boss man, 3 blokes on their phones, some youngish kid ferrying wheel barrows loads of steaming tarmac.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
I don’t want to split hairs about a serious sexual assault and I agree the sentence was a joke but this is wrong. Firstly, the ringleader of the gang got 18 years for multiple rapes, this one was a minor (15 at the time) and was “only” (I feel sick typing that) convicted of three counts of sexual assault and one count of assault by penetration. The sentence was a joke but he was not convicted of multiple rape. Members of the same gang were and got heavy sentences.
So it’s not true or, at the very least, it’s missing vital context.
Yes, that's the point I'm making, not the ethnicity, it's that the sentence for the crime is an absolute joke. A completely pointless slap on the wrist for a very serious offence.
We agree on that, but disagree on the veracity of the Tweet. Furthermore retweeting the account in question is like quoting from Mein Kampf. One or two sentences therein may be factually accurate but using the specific source speaks volumes.
Can you really go to prison for 2 years for 'selling anti-immigration stickers'?
Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
Indeed
However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift
Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots
The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?
He may find this perception hangs around
That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
Yes, for me the problem isn't so much the pomposity - hard to disapprove of rioters without sounding pompous - or the ineffectuality - a common failing in the face of rioting - but that he seemed so equivocal about rioting until it was poor white people doing it.
These aren't poor white people. They're violent racists.
These things, sadly, are not mutually exclusive
Sure. But the poorness and whiteness isn't what's causing the problem. It's the racially aggravated violence. You'll see this when cases get to court. Nobody is going to be charged with being poor and white.
There is a clear link between the Brexit vote, the Reform vote in 2024 and these riots. Yes the riots are being inflated by bad actors on socials, but those being whipped up are the same ones who thought Brexit would fix their ills (it didn't), that Reform would fix their ills (it won't) and that immigration and immigrants are part of the problem (possibly a small part is true - if you move a million more people into a country, housing becomes scarcer and services harder to access). But rioting won't fix that.*
*Except it might fix YOUR housing for a while, at His Majesties Pleasure...
There's usually a socioeconomic context to public disorder and this is no exception. But I'm talking about the people leading and avidly participating in racially targeted violence. Attacks on Mosques, Asylum Seekers etc. These people have no legitimate cause or context for their actions. It awards them an unmerited gravitas to suggest otherwise.
Yes. I find it utterly astonishing that folk can equate seeking to burn down hotels, knowing that there are residents and staff in them, with any other form of protest that I've witnessed over the last 50 years.
It's attempted mass murder, and for all the wrongdoing witnessed on other 'protests' I've never seen anything as wicked.
I was at the BLM riots in Trafalgar Sq in 2020 and I saw multiple beatings of white people which, if the coppers hadn’t leapt in and saved the victim, would have likely turned into murder
That’s what I saw. I was there
Two days later, Starmer took the knee
Yet you still claim to have voted for Starmer last month, and not, say, for RefUK...
Do you know I don't altogether believe you.
Doesn't quite scan, does it.
So, what, now you don’t believe me? That I voted for this twat Starmer? What would I gain from lying to you about my vote?! What do I care what you think of my vote? You seriously over estimate your salience in my mind
Well your vote is at odds with your politics. So if it's true you voted Labour you either betrayed your politics or you disrespected the democratic process.
Oh good grief, could you get more pompous?
There was a serious reason for my vote, too. I want - or wanted - Starmer to have a big majority. The worst possible outcome for Britain was a feeble NOM Labour govt
I had hopes (maybe I still do) that Labour - eg - might reform the NHS. For that you need the confidence of many MPs
Ok. So there's a 'better you' which we don't have the pleasure of on here. One which isn't obsessed with race and nationhood and borders etc.
That's plausible and I'm going to plause it because it comforts me.
Do you really think the guy on here is my true persona?
Ask someone on PB that’s met me. there are a few. I come on here for debate and argument and to have my views vigorously challenged and to do the same to others. Some times I come on here just for company
Of course I am spikier on here than in real life. Do you think I rant at my friends and family about the EU or tax rates or illegal migration? But, isn’t this true of all of us? - we come on here to offload and to spar, to chat with an intensity that would be ugly or nerdy in actual human company
This is your lack of imagination showing. But it’s fine. I have just had 9 oysters in a brasserie and the world is sweet
Ah so hide your hard right views irl?
Good call. 🙂
(if only they all did that)
I've discovered being too diplomatic about one's views can be problematic as well. I've now got an acquaintance who seemed to presume I am sympathetic to his GB News Trump supporting stances. I kept my mouth shut when he talked about the interesting things RFK Jr and Andrew Bridgen had to say about vaccines, but I had to interrupt when he insisted on going on about the Ukrainian backed genocide of Russians.
Yes, it can be hard - and I too am conflict averse - but it's best to nip that stuff in the bud. Otherwise you tremble inside.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
I don’t want to split hairs about a serious sexual assault and I agree the sentence was a joke but this is wrong. Firstly, the ringleader of the gang got 18 years for multiple rapes, this one was a minor (15 at the time) and was “only” (I feel sick typing that) convicted of three counts of sexual assault and one count of assault by penetration. The sentence was a joke but he was not convicted of multiple rape. Members of the same gang were and got heavy sentences.
So it’s not true or, at the very least, it’s missing vital context.
Yes, that's the point I'm making, not the ethnicity, it's that the sentence for the crime is an absolute joke. A completely pointless slap on the wrist for a very serious offence.
We agree on that, but disagree on the veracity of the Tweet. Furthermore retweeting the account in question is like quoting from Mein Kampf. One or two sentences therein may be factually accurate but using the specific source speaks volumes.
Can you really go to prison for 2 years for 'selling anti-immigration stickers'?
Depends what’s printed on them
A much more serious crime than a 15 year old raping someones daughter judging by the disparity of the sentences
Are there any other gold medal chances for Team GB in the athletics?
The team leaning on your shovel, drinking a cup of tea while watching and apprentice do all the work event
I definitely think I saw our gold medal hopes for that event earlier today....resurfacing a car park, one bloke vaping who appeared to be boss man, 3 blokes on their phones, some youngish kid ferrying wheel barrows loads of steaming tarmac.
One thing is constant - it is always the most junior and least able who is actually doing some work.
There is something of Amadeus and Salieri between Josh Kerr and Jakob Ingebrigtsen. Like the film you simply cannot fail to have sympathy for the very able plodder compared to the careless arrogant genius.
I shouldn't feel this way. Kerr is not only British but Scottish from Edinburgh. I want to support him. But he's just not the sort I can empathise with.
Ambivalent.
You empathise with the careless arrogant genius?
No, and neither of them won. They tried to make this race was all about them and Hocker sneaks in and wins. Ingebrigtsen ran himself out of it by trying to run the sprint out of Kerr. Kerr didn't leave enough by trying to stay with him. Hocker was perfect.
And Ingebrigtsen ran out wide to force Kerr even wider. Thus creating the gap for Hocker to go through. However. That's a GB record for Josh Kerr.
I said before the 1500m is my favourite race. That race was a perfect example of why. One of the great races.
Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
Indeed
However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift
Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots
The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?
He may find this perception hangs around
That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
Yes, for me the problem isn't so much the pomposity - hard to disapprove of rioters without sounding pompous - or the ineffectuality - a common failing in the face of rioting - but that he seemed so equivocal about rioting until it was poor white people doing it.
These aren't poor white people. They're violent racists.
These things, sadly, are not mutually exclusive
Sure. But the poorness and whiteness isn't what's causing the problem. It's the racially aggravated violence. You'll see this when cases get to court. Nobody is going to be charged with being poor and white.
There is a clear link between the Brexit vote, the Reform vote in 2024 and these riots. Yes the riots are being inflated by bad actors on socials, but those being whipped up are the same ones who thought Brexit would fix their ills (it didn't), that Reform would fix their ills (it won't) and that immigration and immigrants are part of the problem (possibly a small part is true - if you move a million more people into a country, housing becomes scarcer and services harder to access). But rioting won't fix that.*
*Except it might fix YOUR housing for a while, at His Majesties Pleasure...
There's usually a socioeconomic context to public disorder and this is no exception. But I'm talking about the people leading and avidly participating in racially targeted violence. Attacks on Mosques, Asylum Seekers etc. These people have no legitimate cause or context for their actions. It awards them an unmerited gravitas to suggest otherwise.
Yes. I find it utterly astonishing that folk can equate seeking to burn down hotels, knowing that there are residents and staff in them, with any other form of protest that I've witnessed over the last 50 years.
It's attempted mass murder, and for all the wrongdoing witnessed on other 'protests' I've never seen anything as wicked.
I was at the BLM riots in Trafalgar Sq in 2020 and I saw multiple beatings of white people which, if the coppers hadn’t leapt in and saved the victim, would have likely turned into murder
That’s what I saw. I was there
Two days later, Starmer took the knee
Yet you still claim to have voted for Starmer last month, and not, say, for RefUK...
Do you know I don't altogether believe you.
Doesn't quite scan, does it.
I don't have any problem believing it. @Leon loves winners, whether they are despots, crooks like Trump or psychopaths like Putin. In contrast he despise losers and Sunak was a loser. He finds losing a moral flaw, evidence of weakness. Starmer was obviously going to be the winner. Who cares what he actually stands for?
lol. There is a absolutely something in that (tho your slurs about Trump and Putin are unfair, I revile both)
But, yes, one of the less important reasons I voted for Starmer was the psychological feeling that, for the one and surely only time in my life, I would be voting for the winner, THE winner. The actual prime minister. Kir Royale Starmer
Turns out he’s rubbish but hey
This is comedy gold.
@TSE@rcs1000 I think that @Babbage9 might, just might, be the artist formerly known as...take your pick. Can we have a ruling?
It could just be someone who's paying homage?
Like Oasis with the Beatles as it were?
Ah hello!
Should we settle our £20 bet then?
Yes - congrats!
Let me know how you'd like to go about settling it.
Well we said charity or site funds. I've just done some site funds so let's say charity.
Are there any other gold medal chances for Team GB in the athletics?
The team leaning on your shovel, drinking a cup of tea while watching and apprentice do all the work event
I definitely think I saw our gold medal hopes for that event earlier today....resurfacing a car park, one bloke vaping who appeared to be boss man, 3 blokes on their phones, some youngish kid ferrying wheel barrows loads of steaming tarmac.
One thing is constant - it is always the most junior and least able who is actually doing some work.
I presume after he finished with the tarmac he will have been sent for copy of the Sun, 4 teas with 10 sugars, a long weight and some tarten paint.
Are there any other gold medal chances for Team GB in the athletics?
The team leaning on your shovel, drinking a cup of tea while watching and apprentice do all the work event
I definitely think I saw our gold medal hopes for that event earlier today....resurfacing a car park, one bloke vaping who appeared to be boss man, 3 blokes on their phones, some youngish kid ferrying wheel barrows loads of steaming tarmac.
Laura Kenny looks more OK than Keely, but each to his own
I'm trying to get my head back around who are active travel champions in the NW especially Manchester, and I think Dame Laura Kenny is, or has been, one of them.
I think she's had a prominent ambassadorial role in the Chris Boardman / Andy Burnham era, but I can't recall what it has been.
I keep noticing her doing significant but not especially prominent interventions, in the same style as Baroness Tanni-Grey Thompson does.
OK. Getting my influencers sorted out.
The Manchester figure I am thinking of is Dame Sarah Storey, who has 17 Paralympic Gold medals in swimming and cycling. Manchester is the National base for cycling, so there are a lot of them around up there.
My particular areas of activism are quite heavily weighted to disabled mobility and cycling, as that is where the pressures and opportunities are - if I get access for tricycles as mobility aids and mobility scooters, everything else can fit and I avoid the lazy "but the cyclist...", prejudices / excuses since a disabled person with a mobility aid is a pedestrian.
On tv, you never get real understanding of the speed that 800 / 1500m runners go at. We know that 100m is blindly fast, we can kinda of comprehend that. Most normal humans wouldn't keep up with 800 / 1500m pace even sprinting for a 10-20s.
Are there any other gold medal chances for Team GB in the athletics?
The team leaning on your shovel, drinking a cup of tea while watching and apprentice do all the work event
I definitely think I saw our gold medal hopes for that event earlier today....resurfacing a car park, one bloke vaping who appeared to be boss man, 3 blokes on their phones, some youngish kid ferrying wheel barrows loads of steaming tarmac.
One thing is constant - it is always the most junior and least able who is actually doing some work.
I presume after he finished with the tarmac he will have been sent for copy of the Sun, 4 teas with 10 sugars, a long weight and some tarten paint.
When I worked in the labs the new person always got made to dress up in full hazmat suit including airfed breathing equipment and sent for 5 litres of L1712 (distilled water). The storeman would always give it to him in a brimming container and lade him down with all sorts of emergency treatments in case he spilt it on the way back
Definitely thinking of retiring slightly chippy, liberal Guardianista, milquetoast employment lawyer Doug Seal and coming back as relaxed, suave, ex-special forces, professional gambler, libertarian, playboy, Phil Otter.
There is something of Amadeus and Salieri between Josh Kerr and Jakob Ingebrigtsen. Like the film you simply cannot fail to have sympathy for the very able plodder compared to the careless arrogant genius.
I shouldn't feel this way. Kerr is not only British but Scottish from Edinburgh. I want to support him. But he's just not the sort I can empathise with.
Ambivalent.
You empathise with the careless arrogant genius?
At least someone empathises with me, don’t knock it
I can see the farty, sweary, boozy, shaggy side of Shaffer's Mozart, struggling a bit with the Magic Flute thing.
Tedious anecdote time, I served Keith Michell mung bean quiche in Aberdeen's premiere (only) vegetarian restaurant while he was playing Salieri at His Majesty's theatre. Tbf he was a moderately big star at the time.
Walz has two great advantages as a politician: He is not a lawyer -- and he is a winning football coach. (Most Americans dislike lawyers -- and love winning coaches, especially football coaches.) "After returning, Walz took a job teaching and coaching in Alliance, Nebraska, where he met his wife, Gwen Whipple, a fellow teacher.[11] He and Gwen married in 1994, and moved two years later to Mankato in Minnesota, his wife's home state,[11] where he worked as a geography teacher and coach at Mankato West High School.[10] He coached the football team to its first state championship in 1999." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Walz
And, then there is this: "Walz was ranked the 7th-most bipartisan House member during the 114th Congress (and the most bipartisan member from Minnesota) in the Bipartisan Index created by The Lugar Center and the McCourt School of Public Policy, which ranks members of Congress by measuring how often their bills attract co-sponsors from the opposite party and how often they co-sponsor bills by members of the opposite party."
Good comment. Neither part of the "liberal elitist" tag is going to stick.
Early signs are that the Trump campaign is already flailing around, trying to find an effective attack.
I quite like the "first non-lawyer on a Democratic ticket since Jimmy Carter" line.
Average blood pressure in the posh bit of Sheffield increases a little.
It isn't a good idea for Dems to mention Jimmy Carter.
Sure was. I said to my wife just before, "I bet they focus so much on each other that somebody else wins." But did I execute that whimsy by laying them both? No I did not.
(and in fact it was just Inger that blew it, Josh ran the right race)
Definitely thinking of retiring slightly chippy, liberal Guardianista, milquetoast employment lawyer Doug Seal and coming back as relaxed, suave, ex-special forces, professional gambler, libertarian, playboy, Phil Otter.
As Phil Otter you would of course have a better tail.
On tv, you never get real understanding of the speed that 800 / 1500m runners go at. We know that 100m is blindly fast, we can kinda of comprehend that. Most normal humans wouldn't keep up with 800 / 1500m pace even sprinting for a 10-20s.
The BBC did a brilliant piece where they had enthusiastic amateur athletes seeing how long they could keep up with Keeley's average pace (over 26kph as I recall). I think the best did 45 seconds. Some couldn't even get to that pace at all. It is incredible.
The **** ******* ****** should ***** and ***** his ***** to *****.
What made the wanker interested in U.K. politics all of a sudden ?
Whether we like it or not, Western and particularly Anglosphere politics increasingly share a common discourse.
Which, whilst true, is fundamentally stupid. The reason why the nation-state exists is to allow each polity to tailor its policies to the interests of that nation's people. As I said a few pages back, Musk/Bezos/Zuckerberg shouldn't be in charge, the British should be.
The guy is dangerous. How could anyone still support him?
It is true, though and the 180h community service hours sentence was a disgrace.
The person was 15 at the time - that seriously impacts the sentencing options.
What is very annoying is that the sentencing has not been published (because no one requested it) so we can't see the reasons for the actual sentence...
Anyone over the age of 10 can be given a proper sentence. Raping a 12 year old girl and getting away with a 2 year suspended sentence and 180h community service sends a terrible message to other young men and boys all over the country. This is the sort of crime that deserves and exemplary sentence, not a slap on the wrist.
And the sentence for a few irritating protests starts at basically nothing yet the JSO people got 5 years. This is the kind of sentencing that causes young men and boys to disrespect women, if raping a 12 year old girl only got him 180h community service which he probably didn't do anyway then what message are we sending to other boys and young men around his age? It's frankly a disgrace, no matter his background or ethnicity. If it was my daughter that had been raped and the rapist had got away with that slap on the wrist I'd be looking at a judicial review of sentencing guidelines.
There is no evidence he didn’t do the 180h of community service. Don’t make stuff up.
Currently only 44% of community service orders actually start. So there's more than a 1 in 2 chance he didn't do it.
If you don't comply with a community service order the courts can jail you
Definitely thinking of retiring slightly chippy, liberal Guardianista, milquetoast employment lawyer Doug Seal and coming back as relaxed, suave, ex-special forces, professional gambler, libertarian, playboy, Phil Otter.
Walz has two great advantages as a politician: He is not a lawyer -- and he is a winning football coach. (Most Americans dislike lawyers -- and love winning coaches, especially football coaches.) "After returning, Walz took a job teaching and coaching in Alliance, Nebraska, where he met his wife, Gwen Whipple, a fellow teacher.[11] He and Gwen married in 1994, and moved two years later to Mankato in Minnesota, his wife's home state,[11] where he worked as a geography teacher and coach at Mankato West High School.[10] He coached the football team to its first state championship in 1999." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Walz
And, then there is this: "Walz was ranked the 7th-most bipartisan House member during the 114th Congress (and the most bipartisan member from Minnesota) in the Bipartisan Index created by The Lugar Center and the McCourt School of Public Policy, which ranks members of Congress by measuring how often their bills attract co-sponsors from the opposite party and how often they co-sponsor bills by members of the opposite party."
Good comment. Neither part of the "liberal elitist" tag is going to stick.
Early signs are that the Trump campaign is already flailing around, trying to find an effective attack.
I quite like the "first non-lawyer on a Democratic ticket since Jimmy Carter" line.
Average blood pressure in the posh bit of Sheffield increases a little.
It isn't a good idea for Dems to mention Jimmy Carter.
It’s almost universally agreed that he’s America’s best former President, doing much better work after he left office than he did in office. His reputation has definitely solid, even amongst Republicans -
Comments
Robinson is not happy and has told his followers to tell Farage so in his twitter comments. Priti Patel meanwhile has said Farage's comments on 2 tier policing were wrong
It does show issues that Labour need to be aware of at the next election...
What do the left behind want? Free stuff that they think is being given to immigrants and scroungers. People like Farage promote the lie that immigrants are given free stuff like houses and cars, not available to them.
zerohedge
@zerohedge
·
6m
*TRUMP SAYS HE WILL DO AN INTERVIEW W/ ELON MUSK ON MONDAY NIGHT
The plan, AIUI, is 0.5% on occupied residential property and 2.5% on empty homes based on a revaluation. There are roughly 24 million homes in the UK.
Doing a crude calculation on Stodge Towers it would mean £250 extra per year.
I shouldn't feel this way. Kerr is not only British but Scottish from Edinburgh. I want to support him. But he's just not the sort I can empathise with.
Ambivalent.
So it’s not true or, at the very least, it’s missing vital context.
That I think is something that needs to be addressed, because otherwise it allows stories like this to be spread...
That’s not illegal, but it’s foreign interference and it’s every bit as dangerous as Russian troll farms.
Good call. 🙂
(if only they all did that)
People will be seeing this, and cancelling holidays here. Or investment decisions.
True, that probably won't amount to much. But it is damage.
If it is something like bronze age pottery I am sorry it doesn't come up much, apart from sporadic references to the Beaker people.
He also seems to want or think that Britain must, or will, become like the U.S in its level of conflict. It's not just interference, but, given the reach of twitter, a level of control.
Should we settle our £20 bet then?
Young men its ok you will get community service
Parents of the young girl and young girl herself....he will be told he is a naughty boy and have his wrist slapped
Then lawyers, politicians and judges wonder why most people in this country a) don't trust you, b) think the law is a joke, c) now we no longer respect the law as it no longer serves us we hold it in complete and utter contempt
Surely Musk is much more Hugo Drax...
Tomorrow Is Not Enough
I think she's had a prominent ambassadorial role in the Chris Boardman / Andy Burnham era, but I can't recall what it has been.
I keep noticing her doing significant but not especially prominent interventions, in the same style as Baroness Tanni-Grey Thompson does.
Seb Coe winning this was one of my favourite Olympic moments. I am so looking forward to this.
Weird, but the Conservatives might come out really well from this. If people associate Reform with the rioting, Starmer doesn't get a grip of it and the Tories shout about law and order...
Look at the recent riot tweets by head C4 Reporter Alex Thomson. He did several tweets showing obvious and brutal “Asian” attacks on lonely white victims. And he described them clearly and accurately for what they were. Later, he deleted these tweets. Why? Because, presumably, he was attacked for being “racist” or, more subtly, for “furthering far right narratives”
Ergo, if real journalists delete and self censor entirely accurate but “unhelpful” information, where else do you get the information? You are forced to rely on Nazis, or the info doesn’t come out at all
But pomposity? No, I don’t think that’s me, not in the sense of stiff, ostentatious self importance or moral conceit - which is how I view the word
What an amazing race, Kerr has blown Farah's national record away there
However. That's a GB record for Josh Kerr.
Online persona, sure; but it’s all you.
Let me know how you'd like to go about settling it.
There is already a prison officer equivalent, more needed since the government had the brilliant idea of pensioning off experienced prison officers and handing over to G4S and a bunch of kids. Oh wait, they've effectively done that with the police too.
That is because Councils have been kept on a starvation diet since ~2010, in both England and Scotland. But more so in England. In Scotland (one of our North Britons such as @Eabhal will tell us) I believe they had a freeze in cash terms for 6-7 consecutive years.
If we want effective and capable Councils they need a fairly big funding boost, and it will take time to build capacity.
I'd say that conservatively Local Authorities need a funding boost from current levels of something like a quarter to a third in the short term, just for recovery to 2010 levels.
Olympic record for Hocker, PB and British record for Kerr though, can’t ask for more than that.
Well we said charity or site funds. I've just done some site funds so let's say charity.
Shelter?
The Manchester figure I am thinking of is Dame Sarah Storey, who has 17 Paralympic Gold medals in swimming and cycling. Manchester is the National base for cycling, so there are a lot of them around up there.
My particular areas of activism are quite heavily weighted to disabled mobility and cycling, as that is where the pressures and opportunities are - if I get access for tricycles as mobility aids and mobility scooters, everything else can fit and I avoid the lazy "but the cyclist...", prejudices / excuses since a disabled person with a mobility aid is a pedestrian.
Tedious anecdote time, I served Keith Michell mung bean quiche in Aberdeen's premiere (only) vegetarian restaurant while he was playing Salieri at His Majesty's theatre. Tbf he was a moderately big star at the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_United_States_presidential_election
Kerr almost lost to the other American too.
(and in fact it was just Inger that blew it, Josh ran the right race)
https://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/poll-presidents-carter-reagan-215537