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Should we start describing Kamala as the favourite for the White House Race? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,219
edited August 26 in General
Should we start describing Kamala as the favourite for the White House Race? – politicalbetting.com

https://t.co/vX8G2Ri8SW

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Comments

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,958
    Wait until after the Convention. Then she will be a very clear favourite...
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,505
    not last
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    third
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    I think she has pulled it back to level - the EC is biased towards the Republicans, currently.

    Watch the EC numbers like a hawk. Both for swing states and the possibility of states becoming swing states. The later is quite unlikely at the moment, but worth checking.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,452
    Trump remains favourite with the satchel swingers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,150
    I like Tim Walz already: check out him and his daughter as the Minnesota State Fair.

    https://x.com/jjabbott/status/1820808291083026854?t=rI9nU3w5xLR0dWUgH2SgkQ&s=19
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,982

    I think she has pulled it back to level - the EC is biased towards the Republicans, currently.

    Watch the EC numbers like a hawk. Both for swing states and the possibility of states becoming swing states. The later is quite unlikely at the moment, but worth checking.

    If I have the energy I will be doing a thread on why it is now possible the Dems lose the popular vote and win the electoral college
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    edited August 6
    Foxy said:

    I like Tim Walz already: check out him and his daughter as the Minnesota State Fair.

    https://x.com/jjabbott/status/1820808291083026854?t=rI9nU3w5xLR0dWUgH2SgkQ&s=19

    @benwansell
    TLDR he’s like Ed Davey if Ed Davey had been in the Territorial Army
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,915
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Walz confirmed as the Veep pick?

    Looks like it.

    Safe choice: Doesn't add much to the ticket, but no obvious skeletons or people likely to be offended. (Although I see Twitter has this story about how he changed the Minnesota state flag so it looked more like the Somali flag, so that Minnesota could be more welcoming to Muslims.)
    I think that's wrong.

    He will be a hugely popular pick within the Democratic Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.

    He adds non-Beltway, flyover state cred. And he's a bloody good governor.
    That's quite significant.

    Also ex-teacher, so beyond criticism.
    'Corbyn will be a hugely popular pick within the Labour Party - he probably wouldn't even have made it this far had there not been intensive grassroots lobbying for him.'
    That you're even comparing the two says much about your comprehension of US politics.

    And Corbyn doesn't strike me as the type to spend 24 years serving in the National Guard.
    Wolz is very much middle of the road Democrat.
    No, he is one of the most leftwing governors in the US and was endorsed by Bernie Sanders to be VP nominee
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4809450-bernie-sanders-kamala-harris-tim-walz-veepstakes-2024-election/
    Bernie Sanders also endorsed Joe Biden in 2020 to become President, I am guessing Biden lost after getting the endorsement of Sanders.
    After Biden had got the nomination, Sanders was Biden's main opponent in the primaries!

    A Harris-Walz ticket basically looks like a Dukakis-Mondale ticket in all but name
    Dukakis -Monsale was 40 years ago. It means nothing. You use lots of historical precedents to demonstrate Kamala can't win. These references are meaningless.

    It's like saying Aston Villa have a great record of seven wins in the FA Cup, they should be one of the favourites this season!*

    *Spoiler, the last win was 1957.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    NYT - Tim Walz Is Kamala Harris’s Choice for Vice President: Live Election Updates

    The Minnesota governor, a former high school teacher and National Guard member, brings to the ticket Midwestern appeal and a plain-spoken way of talking about Donald Trump.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,169
    Not third
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,915
    edited August 6
    Roger said:

    'Harris/Walz' works well. It has notes of Vienna and an elegant pre war Europe

    "Pre War Europe?"

    FFS. Don't encourage Musk!
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    With Harris and Walz we are about to enter apostrophe hell.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,218
    Foxy said:

    I like Tim Walz already: check out him and his daughter as the Minnesota State Fair.

    https://x.com/jjabbott/status/1820808291083026854?t=rI9nU3w5xLR0dWUgH2SgkQ&s=19

    The Ed Davey of the Midwest.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,982
    eek said:

    With Harris and Walz we are about to enter apostrophe hell.

    Ironic as I've lost my confidence to use apostrophes correctly after a faux pas at work.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,150
    Another great recent tweet.

    https://x.com/Tim_Walz/status/1819737187832709552?t=nrTAox_icT3Ir77qTyLMZQ&s=19

    Still think he is an out of touch liberal @HYUFD?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,283
    eek said:

    With Harris and Walz we are about to enter apostrophe hell.

    Apostrocalypse Now.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    I like Tim Walz already: check out him and his daughter as the Minnesota State Fair.

    https://x.com/jjabbott/status/1820808291083026854?t=rI9nU3w5xLR0dWUgH2SgkQ&s=19

    The Ed Davey of the Midwest.
    BUNGEE!!!!!

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,452
    Cloudflare reports Vanilla connection errors.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177

    I think she has pulled it back to level - the EC is biased towards the Republicans, currently.

    Watch the EC numbers like a hawk. Both for swing states and the possibility of states becoming swing states. The later is quite unlikely at the moment, but worth checking.

    If I have the energy I will be doing a thread on why it is now possible the Dems lose the popular vote and win the electoral college
    That would be both interesting and valuable. Please do.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 813
    To answer the thread - imo we should describe her as the favourite if, and only if, she is shorter odds than Trump in the markets. Even if she were 99% to win in reality. Because that's what favourite means.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,982

    To answer the thread - imo we should describe her as the favourite if, and only if, she is shorter odds than Trump in the markets. Even if she were 99% to win in reality. Because that's what favourite means.

    I was meaning in the sense of the polling.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    eek said:

    With Harris and Walz we are about to enter apostrophe hell.

    Careful now, you'll trigger PTSD for @TheScreamingEagles

    EDIT: Ninja'd
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    No, Trump still leads the RCP EC average 297-241 EC votes for Harris with no toss up states.

    Walz is also an old style labor union leftist Democrat not a centrist who could win independents in a key swing state like Shapiro.

    Harris likely gets a bounce post convention but in the end I think Trump wins by about the same margin Bush defeated Kerry by in 2004
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/maps/president/2024/no-toss-up/electoral-college
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,962
    FPT
    Roger said:

    Harris/Walz works well. It has notes of Vienna and an elegant pre war Europe

    Harris /Shapiro is a little too Board of Deputies

    Okay.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 813

    I think she has pulled it back to level - the EC is biased towards the Republicans, currently.

    Watch the EC numbers like a hawk. Both for swing states and the possibility of states becoming swing states. The later is quite unlikely at the moment, but worth checking.

    If I have the energy I will be doing a thread on why it is now possible the Dems lose the popular vote and win the electoral college
    That would be both interesting and valuable. Please do.
    Please don't. I've been quietly building up a position there in a thin market :wink:

    4.5 on pubs is great value.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,915

    eek said:

    With Harris and Walz we are about to enter apostrophe hell.

    Ironic as I've lost my confidence to use apostrophes correctly after a faux pas at work.
    It wasn't your fault. Always blame autocorrect!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,958
    Foxy said:

    I like Tim Walz already: check out him and his daughter as the Minnesota State Fair.

    https://x.com/jjabbott/status/1820808291083026854?t=rI9nU3w5xLR0dWUgH2SgkQ&s=19

    I'd love to see Trump's hair after going up in that...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    HYUFD said:

    No, Trump still leads the RCP EC average 297-241 EC votes for Harris with no toss up states.

    Walz is also an old style labor union leftist Democrat not a centrist who could win independents in a key swing state like Shapiro.

    Harris likely gets a bounce post convention but in the end I think Trump wins by about the same margin Bush defeated Kerry by in 2004
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/maps/president/2024/no-toss-up/electoral-college

    No, he isn't. Walz is a centre right Democrat, as things stand.

    In US politics, you can be quite a way from the hard left and be a Union Man. Joe Six Pack is a Union Man.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177

    Foxy said:

    I like Tim Walz already: check out him and his daughter as the Minnesota State Fair.

    https://x.com/jjabbott/status/1820808291083026854?t=rI9nU3w5xLR0dWUgH2SgkQ&s=19

    I'd love to see Trump's hair after going up in that...
    You owe everyone x gallons of mind bleach after that mental image....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,982
    HYUFD said:

    No, Trump still leads the RCP EC average 297-241 EC votes for Harris with no toss up states.

    Walz is also an old style labor union leftist Democrat not a centrist who could win independents in a key swing state like Shapiro.

    Harris likely gets a bounce post convention but in the end I think Trump wins by about the same margin Bush defeated Kerry by in 2004
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/maps/president/2024/no-toss-up/electoral-college

    But as you’ve been told RCP isn’t updating as well as it used to and misses out some key polls such as the one with Harris 5% ahead.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    Roger said:

    Harris/Walz works well. It has notes of Vienna and an elegant pre war Europe

    Harris /Shapiro is a little too Board of Deputies

    Okay.
    Ha ha ha ha.....
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    edited August 6

    eek said:

    With Harris and Walz we are about to enter apostrophe hell.

    Careful now, you'll trigger PTSD for @TheScreamingEagles

    EDIT: Ninja'd
    That might have been (/was) the point of the post
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,169
    edited August 6
    Absolute confirmation if it were needed.

    Kamala Harris
    @KamalaHarris
    I am proud to announce that I've asked @Tim_Walz
    to be my running mate.
    As a governor, a coach, a teacher, and a veteran, he's delivered for working families like his.
    It's great to have him on the team.
    Now let’s get to work. Join us:

    https://x.com/KamalaHarris/status/1820828396298879294
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,479
    Gripping stuff from Paris - The Olympics merges with It's A knockout in the climbing event.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Not yet. Especially since GOP state houses may not care who wins the vote.

    But it's now a proper contest again.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,283
    Doesn't PB approve of permitting reform ?

    Walz is a permitting reform champion:

    Last year, Minnesota passed a law mandating 100% clean electricity by 2040.

    But due to red tape, they were projected to miss the target by decades.

    So they passed permitting reform, which will cut overall project approval time by 50%.

    https://x.com/AlecStapp/status/1820819272727232658
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592

    HYUFD said:

    No, Trump still leads the RCP EC average 297-241 EC votes for Harris with no toss up states.

    Walz is also an old style labor union leftist Democrat not a centrist who could win independents in a key swing state like Shapiro.

    Harris likely gets a bounce post convention but in the end I think Trump wins by about the same margin Bush defeated Kerry by in 2004
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/maps/president/2024/no-toss-up/electoral-college

    But as you’ve been told RCP isn’t updating as well as it used to and misses out some key polls such as the one with Harris 5% ahead.
    HYUFD posting dodgy data that backs his viewpoint - who would have thought he would stoop to such low levels.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,915

    Gripping stuff from Paris

    So you too have been following Leon's relentless Paris travelog today.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,915
    HYUFD said:
    ...in a Swift Boat?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,452

    Gripping stuff from Paris - The Olympics merges with It's A knockout in the climbing event.

    Bet you can hardly wait for the breakdancing!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    This is the medals table from the Microsoft Start webpage:



    Can anyone explain how the sorting works? It clearly isn't on Golds, or China would be first... but it clearly isn't on total medal count, or the UK would be ahead of Australia.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,479
    edited August 6

    Gripping stuff from Paris

    So you too have been following Leon's relentless Paris travelog today.
    One fully expects him to be handing out the medals at the human fly event.

    It is quite captivating, although it would be much enhanced by a sharkpool at the foot of the wall.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,452
    Foxy said:

    I like Tim Walz already: check out him and his daughter as the Minnesota State Fair.

    https://x.com/jjabbott/status/1820808291083026854?t=rI9nU3w5xLR0dWUgH2SgkQ&s=19

    You'd think his daughter, Hope, would carefully enunciate her name. I thought she said Ho.

    Speaking of names, the Kamala/Walz ticket now has two names with unclear pronunciations. From that video, Walz is pronounced Walls, like ice cream and sausages.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662

    I think she has pulled it back to level - the EC is biased towards the Republicans, currently.

    Watch the EC numbers like a hawk. Both for swing states and the possibility of states becoming swing states. The later is quite unlikely at the moment, but worth checking.

    If I have the energy I will be doing a thread on why it is now possible the Dems lose the popular vote and win the electoral college
    I think that is a good bet.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Starmer failing his first big test?


    “Britons tend to think that Keir Starmer is handling the riots badly

    Well: 31%
    Badly: 49%”

    yougov.co.uk/politics/artic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1820830612829208905?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This is quite a big one to fail
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,947
    Foxy said:

    I like Tim Walz already: check out him and his daughter as the Minnesota State Fair.

    https://x.com/jjabbott/status/1820808291083026854?t=rI9nU3w5xLR0dWUgH2SgkQ&s=19

    He looks good. I like the reference to Turkey being vegetarian. Something else we can add to Vension.

    A few more like that and I could become a vegetarian.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    kjh said:

    Foxy said:

    I like Tim Walz already: check out him and his daughter as the Minnesota State Fair.

    https://x.com/jjabbott/status/1820808291083026854?t=rI9nU3w5xLR0dWUgH2SgkQ&s=19

    He looks good. I like the reference to Turkey being vegetarian. Something else we can add to Vension.

    A few more like that and I could become a vegetarian.
    Apparently duck is also vegan (c) T Swift
  • rcs1000 said:

    This is the medals table from the Microsoft Start webpage:



    Can anyone explain how the sorting works? It clearly isn't on Golds, or China would be first... but it clearly isn't on total medal count, or the UK would be ahead of Australia.

    The America goes at the top method? The Yanks typically go be number of medals, as opposed to the rest of the world which goes by number of golds. The table you’ve posted appears to be a screwed up hybrid.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937
    On the Q from the previous thread, the infra to block twitter would be exactly the same as the infra used to block anything else, such as child abuse images.

    It's been in place for 15-20 years. There was a day in ~2008 iirc where they blocked Wikipedia by mistake.

    It won't be 100% - nothing ever is, but it will be 98%+, surmountable by some internet tricks and established routes used by privacy activists.
  • rcs1000 said:

    This is the medals table from the Microsoft Start webpage:



    Can anyone explain how the sorting works? It clearly isn't on Golds, or China would be first... but it clearly isn't on total medal count, or the UK would be ahead of Australia.

    I'll take a guess. The Chinese have just won their diving gold. The table has updated the Golds for that but, for some reason, it has not been reordered (maybe it is done on a time delay but that feels strange).

    So I think it is based on Gold but it may be a timing issue.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937
    edited August 6
    rcs1000 said:

    This is the medals table from the Microsoft Start webpage:



    Can anyone explain how the sorting works? It clearly isn't on Golds, or China would be first... but it clearly isn't on total medal count, or the UK would be ahead of Australia.

    Doesn't that look like something like a 3, 2, 1 or 3, 1, 1 points system?

    The criteria is to avoid the USA's self-regard balloon going pop.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,452
    Leon said:

    Starmer failing his first big test?


    “Britons tend to think that Keir Starmer is handling the riots badly

    Well: 31%
    Badly: 49%”

    yougov.co.uk/politics/artic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1820830612829208905?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This is quite a big one to fail

    Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    edited August 6
    rcs1000 said:

    I think she has pulled it back to level - the EC is biased towards the Republicans, currently.

    Watch the EC numbers like a hawk. Both for swing states and the possibility of states becoming swing states. The later is quite unlikely at the moment, but worth checking.

    If I have the energy I will be doing a thread on why it is now possible the Dems lose the popular vote and win the electoral college
    I think that is a good bet.
    Differential turnout, or the polls plain wrong?

    As it stands, Harris polls slightly ahead on simple votes.

    The more I think of the Walz choice, the better it looks. The teacher/union stuff shores up the left - which gets the activists/get out the vote people onboard (a lot of the Democrat party volunteers/low level people are on the Left). Plus he can reach out to Independents - long term National Guard, family man, ran his state well.

    EDIT: and, of course, as a Governor, no problems over a Senate seat.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,947
    Scott_xP said:

    kjh said:

    Foxy said:

    I like Tim Walz already: check out him and his daughter as the Minnesota State Fair.

    https://x.com/jjabbott/status/1820808291083026854?t=rI9nU3w5xLR0dWUgH2SgkQ&s=19

    He looks good. I like the reference to Turkey being vegetarian. Something else we can add to Vension.

    A few more like that and I could become a vegetarian.
    Apparently duck is also vegan (c) T Swift
    Magic. I like duck.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,452
    MattW said:

    On the Q from the previous thread, the infra to block twitter would be exactly the same as the infra used to block anything else, such as child abuse images.

    It's been in place for 15-20 years. There was a day in ~2008 iirc where they blocked Wikipedia by mistake.

    It won't be 100% - nothing ever is, but it will be 98%+, surmountable by some internet tricks and established routes used by privacy activists.

    The objection to blocking Twitter is not its technical complexity or the symbolism of stricter political censorship than Russia, but kicking off a trade dispute with the incoming President of the United States.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,283
    rcs1000 said:

    This is the medals table from the Microsoft Start webpage:



    Can anyone explain how the sorting works? It clearly isn't on Golds, or China would be first... but it clearly isn't on total medal count, or the UK would be ahead of Australia.

    Socialist states get demoted.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    MattW said:

    On the Q from the previous thread, the infra to block twitter would be exactly the same as the infra used to block anything else, such as child abuse images.

    It's been in place for 15-20 years. There was a day in ~2008 iirc where they blocked Wikipedia by mistake.

    It won't be 100% - nothing ever is, but it will be 98%+, surmountable by some internet tricks and established routes used by privacy activists.

    It's believed that the bans etc on ISIS and related websites has had next to no effect.

    Tragically, @DavidL (among others) can probably confirm that images of utter horror are widespread.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    Starmer failing his first big test?


    “Britons tend to think that Keir Starmer is handling the riots badly

    Well: 31%
    Badly: 49%”

    yougov.co.uk/politics/artic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1820830612829208905?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This is quite a big one to fail

    Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
    Indeed

    However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift

    Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots

    The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?

    He may find this perception hangs around

    That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,030
    Leon said:

    Starmer failing his first big test?


    “Britons tend to think that Keir Starmer is handling the riots badly

    Well: 31%
    Badly: 49%”

    yougov.co.uk/politics/artic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1820830612829208905?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This is quite a big one to fail

    Those are similar numbers to Cameron in '11
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Foss said:

    Leon said:

    Starmer failing his first big test?


    “Britons tend to think that Keir Starmer is handling the riots badly

    Well: 31%
    Badly: 49%”

    yougov.co.uk/politics/artic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1820830612829208905?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This is quite a big one to fail

    Those are similar numbers to Cameron in '11
    Cameron didn’t face a major national crisis within six weeks of taking power. In those first 100 days

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533

    MattW said:

    On the Q from the previous thread, the infra to block twitter would be exactly the same as the infra used to block anything else, such as child abuse images.

    It's been in place for 15-20 years. There was a day in ~2008 iirc where they blocked Wikipedia by mistake.

    It won't be 100% - nothing ever is, but it will be 98%+, surmountable by some internet tricks and established routes used by privacy activists.

    It's believed that the bans etc on ISIS and related websites has had next to no effect.

    Tragically, @DavidL (among others) can probably confirm that images of utter horror are widespread.
    We have just had a high profile court case opening a window into one way such images are now shared.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,915
    ...
    Leon said:

    Starmer failing his first big test?


    “Britons tend to think that Keir Starmer is handling the riots badly

    Well: 31%
    Badly: 49%”

    yougov.co.uk/politics/artic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1820830612829208905?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This is quite a big one to fail

    It's a snapshot. He's 2 nil down at half time. As scumbags start getting led down to the cells on the 10 o'clock news that will likely change.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,962
    Confirmed — it's Tim Walz.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,714
    Leon said:

    Starmer failing his first big test?


    “Britons tend to think that Keir Starmer is handling the riots badly

    Well: 31%
    Badly: 49%”

    yougov.co.uk/politics/artic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1820830612829208905?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This is quite a big one to fail

    Either the Tories or Reform need to take the lead in GE voting intention in the coming polls, as Hauge's Tories did during the fuel protests early in Blair's tenure. If they don't, then it will mean the public regard the Right as equally culpable, which won't do them much good politically.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,982
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Starmer failing his first big test?


    “Britons tend to think that Keir Starmer is handling the riots badly

    Well: 31%
    Badly: 49%”

    yougov.co.uk/politics/artic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1820830612829208905?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This is quite a big one to fail

    Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
    Indeed

    However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift

    Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots

    The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?

    He may find this perception hangs around

    That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
    Dave had similar levels during the 2011 riots but his ratings improved as time went by as more and more thugs got locked up.

    Only 30% say Cameron has done a good job, against 44% who say the opposite, a net negative score of -14. For Johnson, the figures are 28% good job and 38% bad, a negative of -10 points. By contrast, 45% think that the acting commissioner of the Metropolitan police, Tim Godwin, has done well against 27% who say the opposite – a positive score of 18.

    Another online poll, conducted this week by YouGov, found similar levels of support for the police response over that of politicians


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/aug/12/riot-poll-public-back-police
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177

    MattW said:

    On the Q from the previous thread, the infra to block twitter would be exactly the same as the infra used to block anything else, such as child abuse images.

    It's been in place for 15-20 years. There was a day in ~2008 iirc where they blocked Wikipedia by mistake.

    It won't be 100% - nothing ever is, but it will be 98%+, surmountable by some internet tricks and established routes used by privacy activists.

    The objection to blocking Twitter is not its technical complexity or the symbolism of stricter political censorship than Russia, but kicking off a trade dispute with the incoming President of the United States.
    I don't think it would be much of a trade dispute if the UK decided to block Twitter. Various countries do.

    The biggest question would be - why not Telegram and all the others hosting similar (or worse) content?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177

    MattW said:

    On the Q from the previous thread, the infra to block twitter would be exactly the same as the infra used to block anything else, such as child abuse images.

    It's been in place for 15-20 years. There was a day in ~2008 iirc where they blocked Wikipedia by mistake.

    It won't be 100% - nothing ever is, but it will be 98%+, surmountable by some internet tricks and established routes used by privacy activists.

    It's believed that the bans etc on ISIS and related websites has had next to no effect.

    Tragically, @DavidL (among others) can probably confirm that images of utter horror are widespread.
    We have just had a high profile court case opening a window into one way such images are now shared.
    Yes. Ugh.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,081
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Starmer failing his first big test?


    “Britons tend to think that Keir Starmer is handling the riots badly

    Well: 31%
    Badly: 49%”

    yougov.co.uk/politics/artic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1820830612829208905?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This is quite a big one to fail

    Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
    Indeed

    However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift

    Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots

    The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?

    He may find this perception hangs around

    That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
    Yes, for me the problem isn't so much the pomposity - hard to disapprove of rioters without sounding pompous - or the ineffectuality - a common failing in the face of rioting - but that he seemed so equivocal about rioting until it was poor white people doing it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited August 6

    MattW said:

    On the Q from the previous thread, the infra to block twitter would be exactly the same as the infra used to block anything else, such as child abuse images.

    It's been in place for 15-20 years. There was a day in ~2008 iirc where they blocked Wikipedia by mistake.

    It won't be 100% - nothing ever is, but it will be 98%+, surmountable by some internet tricks and established routes used by privacy activists.

    The objection to blocking Twitter is not its technical complexity or the symbolism of stricter political censorship than Russia, but kicking off a trade dispute with the incoming President of the United States.
    I don't think it would be much of a trade dispute if the UK decided to block Twitter. Various countries do.

    The biggest question would be - why not Telegram and all the others hosting similar (or worse) content?
    The naughty people are and have been on Telegram for a long time. Things like its groups functionality are very useful for organising among bad people.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    Walz is apparently solid on Ukraine. What’s he like on Palestine ?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    One other story before I go back to work: it seems that Trump's former lawyer Jenna Ellis is taking a plea deal and cooperating with the prosecution in the Arizona fake electors case. If Trump loses in November... he's going to be in a world of hurt.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177

    MattW said:

    On the Q from the previous thread, the infra to block twitter would be exactly the same as the infra used to block anything else, such as child abuse images.

    It's been in place for 15-20 years. There was a day in ~2008 iirc where they blocked Wikipedia by mistake.

    It won't be 100% - nothing ever is, but it will be 98%+, surmountable by some internet tricks and established routes used by privacy activists.

    The objection to blocking Twitter is not its technical complexity or the symbolism of stricter political censorship than Russia, but kicking off a trade dispute with the incoming President of the United States.
    I don't think it would be much of a trade dispute if the UK decided to block Twitter. Various countries do.

    The biggest question would be - why not Telegram and all the others hosting similar (or worse) content?
    The naughty people are and have been on Telegram for a long time.
    Yes - notice how the scum trying to organise riots were promoting and using it?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Starmer failing his first big test?


    “Britons tend to think that Keir Starmer is handling the riots badly

    Well: 31%
    Badly: 49%”

    yougov.co.uk/politics/artic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1820830612829208905?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This is quite a big one to fail

    Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
    Indeed

    However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift

    Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots

    The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?

    He may find this perception hangs around

    That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
    Dave had similar levels during the 2011 riots but his ratings improved as time went by as more and more thugs got locked up.

    Only 30% say Cameron has done a good job, against 44% who say the opposite, a net negative score of -14. For Johnson, the figures are 28% good job and 38% bad, a negative of -10 points. By contrast, 45% think that the acting commissioner of the Metropolitan police, Tim Godwin, has done well against 27% who say the opposite – a positive score of 18.

    Another online poll, conducted this week by YouGov, found similar levels of support for the police response over that of politicians


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/aug/12/riot-poll-public-back-police
    Interesting. I’d say the difference here is the “two tier” accusation, which makes this a potentially more dangerous political moment

    The initial reaction to the 2011 riots was spectacularly feeble, I certainly remember that
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Without reading/absorbing/analyzing details regarding Gov. Tim Walz of Minnesota, my immediate take is that it vindicates the view, that while geography is a traditional AND contemporary consideration re: VP selection, in practice REGIONAL appeal trumps (ahem) STATE electoral vote chasing.

    Appears coming out of the gate, that IF Kamala Harris is gonna need help anywhere in general, it's gonna be the Midwest. KH + TW is likely to aid her, to a limited degree anyway. IN ADDITION to national considerations.

    And now, a musical interlude for your listening pleasure . . .

    Minnesota Waltz - Nod Landstrich And His Polka Waltz Orchestra 1950
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiL-j3bDnvo
  • rcs1000 said:

    This is the medals table from the Microsoft Start webpage:



    Can anyone explain how the sorting works? It clearly isn't on Golds, or China would be first... but it clearly isn't on total medal count, or the UK would be ahead of Australia.

    Self-ID.

    America is top based on medal count because that's how they ID the table.

    We are under Australia because that's how we ID the table.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    She's the favourite alright. This election is 60/40 Harris and I expect the betting to be saying that before too long.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    Starmer failing his first big test?


    “Britons tend to think that Keir Starmer is handling the riots badly

    Well: 31%
    Badly: 49%”

    yougov.co.uk/politics/artic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1820830612829208905?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This is quite a big one to fail

    Either the Tories or Reform need to take the lead in GE voting intention in the coming polls, as Hauge's Tories did during the fuel protests early in Blair's tenure. If they don't, then it will mean the public regard the Right as equally culpable, which won't do them much good politically.
    They won’t

    Starmer may be a dork but he is a lucky dork. The right is grievously divided. He won’t lose his poll lead
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,106
    @REWearmouth
    Tory councillor resigns over anti-Muslim remarks as 400 arrested for riots

    The Conservatives have now suspended Susan Scott.

    https://x.com/REWearmouth/status/1820839276130496803
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,982
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Starmer failing his first big test?


    “Britons tend to think that Keir Starmer is handling the riots badly

    Well: 31%
    Badly: 49%”

    yougov.co.uk/politics/artic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1820830612829208905?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This is quite a big one to fail

    Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
    Indeed

    However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift

    Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots

    The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?

    He may find this perception hangs around

    That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
    Dave had similar levels during the 2011 riots but his ratings improved as time went by as more and more thugs got locked up.

    Only 30% say Cameron has done a good job, against 44% who say the opposite, a net negative score of -14. For Johnson, the figures are 28% good job and 38% bad, a negative of -10 points. By contrast, 45% think that the acting commissioner of the Metropolitan police, Tim Godwin, has done well against 27% who say the opposite – a positive score of 18.

    Another online poll, conducted this week by YouGov, found similar levels of support for the police response over that of politicians


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/aug/12/riot-poll-public-back-police
    Interesting. I’d say the difference here is the “two tier” accusation, which makes this a potentially more dangerous political moment

    The initial reaction to the 2011 riots was spectacularly feeble, I certainly remember that
    I’ve been doing some research on those riots so I could write a thread on the 2024 riots and it is similar, out of touch politicians on holiday get lambasted but as soon as the judges start locking up the thugs the ratings went up, I think we’ll see similar with Starmer.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,662
    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This is the medals table from the Microsoft Start webpage:



    Can anyone explain how the sorting works? It clearly isn't on Golds, or China would be first... but it clearly isn't on total medal count, or the UK would be ahead of Australia.

    Doesn't that look like something like a 3, 2, 1 or 3, 1, 1 points system?

    The criteria is to avoid the USA's self-regard balloon going pop.
    Either of those schemes would have put the UK above Australia. You need at least a 8-1 ratio of Gold to Bronze points to get Australia above the UK.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    I see BBC Verify fell for twitter fake news. Who will check the fact checkers.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,452
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Starmer failing his first big test?


    “Britons tend to think that Keir Starmer is handling the riots badly

    Well: 31%
    Badly: 49%”

    yougov.co.uk/politics/artic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1820830612829208905?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This is quite a big one to fail

    Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
    Indeed

    However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift

    Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots

    The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?

    He may find this perception hangs around

    That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
    Actually I think you have missed a greater risk from the riots, if Farage or the tabloids run with it. The riots themselves will blow out soon. What might stick around is the perception of Starmer jailing rioters while letting out rapists and murderers (which also fits the two tier Keir nickname you have raised).
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049

    Leon said:

    Starmer failing his first big test?


    “Britons tend to think that Keir Starmer is handling the riots badly

    Well: 31%
    Badly: 49%”

    yougov.co.uk/politics/artic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1820830612829208905?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This is quite a big one to fail

    Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
    How many people voted in the recent election based on partygate or PPE fast lanes. Precious few. He has plenty of time to turn it around.

    Getting reports on my local Facebook of a proposed demo in a town nearby and lots of hospitality businesses not opening as a consequence. Disgraceful. Especially on a gorgeous day like today. People damaging businesses in their own community. Shocking.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,283

    Walz has two great advantages as a politician: He is not a lawyer -- and he is a winning football coach. (Most Americans dislike lawyers -- and love winning coaches, especially football coaches.)
    "After returning, Walz took a job teaching and coaching in Alliance, Nebraska, where he met his wife, Gwen Whipple, a fellow teacher.[11] He and Gwen married in 1994, and moved two years later to Mankato in Minnesota, his wife's home state,[11] where he worked as a geography teacher and coach at Mankato West High School.[10] He coached the football team to its first state championship in 1999."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Walz

    And, then there is this: "Walz was ranked the 7th-most bipartisan House member during the 114th Congress (and the most bipartisan member from Minnesota) in the Bipartisan Index created by The Lugar Center and the McCourt School of Public Policy, which ranks members of Congress by measuring how often their bills attract co-sponsors from the opposite party and how often they co-sponsor bills by members of the opposite party."

    Good comment.
    Neither part of the "liberal elitist" tag is going to stick.

    Early signs are that the Trump campaign is already flailing around, trying to find an effective attack.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177
    Taz said:

    Walz is apparently solid on Ukraine. What’s he like on Palestine ?

    Pro-Israel, but supportive of pro-Palestinian groups and their right to protest.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/tim-walz-kamala-harris-israel-gaza-pro-palestinian-protests-2024-8
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049

    Taz said:

    Walz is apparently solid on Ukraine. What’s he like on Palestine ?

    Pro-Israel, but supportive of pro-Palestinian groups and their right to protest.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/tim-walz-kamala-harris-israel-gaza-pro-palestinian-protests-2024-8
    Thanks.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,913

    I see BBC Verify fell for twitter fake news. Who will check the fact checkers.

    There are some great journalists at the BBC. I rather wonder why though.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,695

    I see BBC Verify fell for twitter fake news. Who will check the fact checkers.

    Link?
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    Nigelb said:

    Walz has two great advantages as a politician: He is not a lawyer -- and he is a winning football coach. (Most Americans dislike lawyers -- and love winning coaches, especially football coaches.)
    "After returning, Walz took a job teaching and coaching in Alliance, Nebraska, where he met his wife, Gwen Whipple, a fellow teacher.[11] He and Gwen married in 1994, and moved two years later to Mankato in Minnesota, his wife's home state,[11] where he worked as a geography teacher and coach at Mankato West High School.[10] He coached the football team to its first state championship in 1999."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Walz

    And, then there is this: "Walz was ranked the 7th-most bipartisan House member during the 114th Congress (and the most bipartisan member from Minnesota) in the Bipartisan Index created by The Lugar Center and the McCourt School of Public Policy, which ranks members of Congress by measuring how often their bills attract co-sponsors from the opposite party and how often they co-sponsor bills by members of the opposite party."

    Good comment.
    Neither part of the "liberal elitist" tag is going to stick.

    Early signs are that the Trump campaign is already flailing around, trying to find an effective attack.
    But that’s also true of Kamala Harris as well. They don’t seem to have a clue how to,attack her.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited August 6

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Starmer failing his first big test?


    “Britons tend to think that Keir Starmer is handling the riots badly

    Well: 31%
    Badly: 49%”

    yougov.co.uk/politics/artic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1820830612829208905?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This is quite a big one to fail

    Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
    Indeed

    However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift

    Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots

    The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?

    He may find this perception hangs around

    That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
    Dave had similar levels during the 2011 riots but his ratings improved as time went by as more and more thugs got locked up.

    Only 30% say Cameron has done a good job, against 44% who say the opposite, a net negative score of -14. For Johnson, the figures are 28% good job and 38% bad, a negative of -10 points. By contrast, 45% think that the acting commissioner of the Metropolitan police, Tim Godwin, has done well against 27% who say the opposite – a positive score of 18.

    Another online poll, conducted this week by YouGov, found similar levels of support for the police response over that of politicians


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/aug/12/riot-poll-public-back-police
    Interesting. I’d say the difference here is the “two tier” accusation, which makes this a potentially more dangerous political moment

    The initial reaction to the 2011 riots was spectacularly feeble, I certainly remember that
    I’ve been doing some research on those riots so I could write a thread on the 2024 riots and it is similar, out of touch politicians on holiday get lambasted but as soon as the judges start locking up the thugs the ratings went up, I think we’ll see similar with Starmer.
    It all depends on whether starmer is getting dissed because of the “two tier/hypocrisy” accusations OR because of the mere fact the riots are taking place and he’s in charge. If it is the latter then you are surely right, his polling will recover as the bloody assizes transport everyone
  • I see BBC Verify fell for twitter fake news. Who will check the fact checkers.

    That's the problem with "Verify" groups.

    Any details on this? And any mea culpa from the Beeb?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Starmer failing his first big test?


    “Britons tend to think that Keir Starmer is handling the riots badly

    Well: 31%
    Badly: 49%”

    yougov.co.uk/politics/artic…

    https://x.com/yougov/status/1820830612829208905?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This is quite a big one to fail

    Yes but the next general election is four or five years away. Things that ought to matter, often don't.
    Indeed

    However isn’t it a political truism that perceptions are crucially formed in the first 100 days of office? And after that they become hard to shift

    Starmer has been given a seriously tough test on his second month of office. I don’t envy him. However he came in with baggage that is entirely his own fault - taking the knee AFTER the BLM riots

    The British public believe he is making a hash of this major crisis. Pompous but ineffective, hypocritical and bloviating?

    He may find this perception hangs around

    That said there are exceptions to the rule. Thatcher was massively unpopular at first but became more popular over time
    Dave had similar levels during the 2011 riots but his ratings improved as time went by as more and more thugs got locked up.

    Only 30% say Cameron has done a good job, against 44% who say the opposite, a net negative score of -14. For Johnson, the figures are 28% good job and 38% bad, a negative of -10 points. By contrast, 45% think that the acting commissioner of the Metropolitan police, Tim Godwin, has done well against 27% who say the opposite – a positive score of 18.

    Another online poll, conducted this week by YouGov, found similar levels of support for the police response over that of politicians


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/aug/12/riot-poll-public-back-police
    Interesting. I’d say the difference here is the “two tier” accusation, which makes this a potentially more dangerous political moment

    The initial reaction to the 2011 riots was spectacularly feeble, I certainly remember that
    Oh yeah, cos Tier rhymes with Kier. It's devastating. Not sure how he can come back from it.

    Was it Lee Anderson who came up with it? Damn the man!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,177

    Low stakes conspiracy theory: Elon Musk is trying to provoke Starmer into nationalising Twitter as the only way to get back the $40 billion he paid for it.

    Except that falls down on *how* he nationalises it.

    Mind you, Starmer could just rock up and say "$40 billion, cash"
This discussion has been closed.