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Team Harris will take this right now – politicalbetting.com

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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,735
    Leon said:

    It’s quite boring. Think I preferred horse dancing in Greenwich

    You could always run across the hammer field as they are throwing if you want a bit more excitement.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104

    #New General Election Poll

    🔵 Harris 48% (+4)
    🔴 Trump 44%

    Last poll - 🔵 Harris +1


    Who is Too old for president

    🔴 Trump 51%
    🔵 Harris 12%

    Morning Consult


    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1820505683734995435

    The momentum has swung significantly behind Harris. All of the reasons why she'd be an awful candidate have blown away - because most weren't true.

    The horror for the Trumpists is that their guy is now everything they attacked Biden for. And the more that momentum swings away from Trump the more unhinged he gets to try and bring the attention back to him.
    I hope that is what is happening, rather than just a honeymoon period (or that the economy picks the wrong moment to crash).

    Harris is, well, pretty normal. Biden was too, but he was so past his best he no longer came across as such. Remove that age concern and sure, 45% of Americans will dislike her regardless, but she can hope the 5% who are persuadable contrast her favourably with the just plain bizarre Trump.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited August 5

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    These are in the first of a series of steps we are taking to protect PB.

    I have my own views on this issue which I will wait until calm has been restored before posting.

    Suffice to say I'm entirely unimpressed, as I am unsurprised, by the equally unimaginative, sluggish, and autocratic response by Starmer.
    Were you not impressed by how Dave dealt with the knobheads in 2011? Strikes me Starmer is going along with Dave's textbook.
    So far I have been mightily impressed. He's not a racist and hasn't dabbled in any mealy mouthed victim blaming nor giving the far right racists the tiniest fig leaf of cover. He also understands the law and hasn't given them or their backers any room for manoeuvre. This will end very soon and hopefully with several in prison. He's also got the right wing press on his side leaving the Farages and friends looking very lonely indeed. Few Tory leaders have even shown their faces
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,362
    I mean, you can see why the Brits invented team sports to replace this Olympics shit
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,919

    I'm pretty sure that it's St John's Oxford that's supposed to own land joining Oxford and Cambridge

    Or maybe St John's Ox and Cam combined?

    The bloke who told me worked for one of the Cambridge colleges. I can't remember which one: it was probably either Jesus or Trinity. Therefore I assume the version of the myth I was told was about Cambridge.

    It's probably the sort of myth that was true-ish three hundred years ago, but is not far from the truth.
    Found something from St John's Cambridge..

    They own a lot of land up to the A11

    https://johnian.joh.cam.ac.uk/breaking-even/

    The Oxford version is also very rich, so I think the combined bit might once have been true
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    Leon said:

    I mean, you can see why the Brits invented team sports to replace this Olympics shit

    I thought it was because we were so socially awkward we needed clear rules of engagement in order to hang out together in larger groups.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,845
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    BBC:

    'Josh Kellett, 29, admitted violent disorder following the unrest in Sunderland on Friday.

    The court heard he was wearing a balaclava but was identified by his "distinctive tattoos".'

    Top tip: Wear a long sleeved shirt.

    I read that several defendants were in tears as they they were remanded in custody. In jail, awaiting a chunky sentence. Having felt invincible as they rioted.

    You do have to wonder just how dumb some people are.
    It's the same every time there's a riot. Probably a good thing showing some participants have remorse over their actions (or at least regret over getting punished, which is not as good but better than nothing). People are so easily caught up, there'll be a lot of teary 'This person was a model citizen(until now)' moments.
    I have no doubt that some people were in "the wrong place at the wrong time". Wondered what was going on and ended up in the thick of it.

    But most? Naah. If you are part of a large crowd doing a mob and rob operation, if you are filming people doing that, or cheering them, if you brought your kids to watch then you really have to expect to face the consequences of being part of a riot.

    And then we have the more active people. The ones actively smashing and burning and assaulting and terrifying. Where what happened (Roma kids taken into custody, or British Christian man commits atrocity) is just the excuse for what you want to do - terror, mayhem, destruction.

    The dude in the balaclava. Who even owns a balaclava, never mind sticks one on before heading out the door. Come on mate, what did you expect would happen?
    I've got one somewhere. I tend to use it when hillwalking in winter rather than when I am burning down shops though.
    So what do you wear when you're burning down shops?
    I'm still giving it a lot of thought. So far the uncertainty about my ensemble has held me back.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    BBC:

    'Josh Kellett, 29, admitted violent disorder following the unrest in Sunderland on Friday.

    The court heard he was wearing a balaclava but was identified by his "distinctive tattoos".'

    Top tip: Wear a long sleeved shirt.

    I read that several defendants were in tears as they they were remanded in custody. In jail, awaiting a chunky sentence. Having felt invincible as they rioted.

    You do have to wonder just how dumb some people are.
    It's the same every time there's a riot. Probably a good thing showing some participants have remorse over their actions (or at least regret over getting punished, which is not as good but better than nothing). People are so easily caught up, there'll be a lot of teary 'This person was a model citizen(until now)' moments.
    I have no doubt that some people were in "the wrong place at the wrong time". Wondered what was going on and ended up in the thick of it.

    But most? Naah. If you are part of a large crowd doing a mob and rob operation, if you are filming people doing that, or cheering them, if you brought your kids to watch then you really have to expect to face the consequences of being part of a riot.

    And then we have the more active people. The ones actively smashing and burning and assaulting and terrifying. Where what happened (Roma kids taken into custody, or British Christian man commits atrocity) is just the excuse for what you want to do - terror, mayhem, destruction.

    The dude in the balaclava. Who even owns a balaclava, never mind sticks one on before heading out the door. Come on mate, what did you expect would happen?
    I've got one somewhere. I tend to use it when hillwalking in winter rather than when I am burning down shops though.
    So what do you wear when you're burning down shops?
    I'm still giving it a lot of thought. So far the uncertainty about my ensemble has held me back.
    At least you could prepare your legal defence in advance.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,579

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    BBC:

    'Josh Kellett, 29, admitted violent disorder following the unrest in Sunderland on Friday.

    The court heard he was wearing a balaclava but was identified by his "distinctive tattoos".'

    Top tip: Wear a long sleeved shirt.

    I read that several defendants were in tears as they they were remanded in custody. In jail, awaiting a chunky sentence. Having felt invincible as they rioted.

    You do have to wonder just how dumb some people are.
    It's the same every time there's a riot. Probably a good thing showing some participants have remorse over their actions (or at least regret over getting punished, which is not as good but better than nothing). People are so easily caught up, there'll be a lot of teary 'This person was a model citizen(until now)' moments.
    I have no doubt that some people were in "the wrong place at the wrong time". Wondered what was going on and ended up in the thick of it.

    But most? Naah. If you are part of a large crowd doing a mob and rob operation, if you are filming people doing that, or cheering them, if you brought your kids to watch then you really have to expect to face the consequences of being part of a riot.

    And then we have the more active people. The ones actively smashing and burning and assaulting and terrifying. Where what happened (Roma kids taken into custody, or British Christian man commits atrocity) is just the excuse for what you want to do - terror, mayhem, destruction.

    The dude in the balaclava. Who even owns a balaclava, never mind sticks one on before heading out the door. Come on mate, what did you expect would happen?
    I've got one somewhere. I tend to use it when hillwalking in winter rather than when I am burning down shops though.
    My mum made me wear one when I was 8.
    And you thank her now, having avoided a criminal record....
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Leon said:

    I mean, you can see why the Brits invented team sports to replace this Olympics shit

    Watch video highlights then you don't waste half your life watching it live.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    Sounds like a good idea, maybe this guy shouldn't be the VP pick so he can keep being Governor?

    On my first day in office, I announced that 92% of state government jobs do not require a four-year college degree — opening new doors of opportunity in our Commonwealth.

    And last year, nearly 60% of our new hires didn't have a four-year college degree.

    We’re prioritizing skills and experience over arbitrary four year degrees in my Administration.

    https://nitter.poast.org/GovernorShapiro/status/1820482639532343457#m
  • TresTres Posts: 2,702

    Hmmm...

    The Italian boxer who ignited the controversy over the ALgerian and Thai boxers at the Olympics is getting a $50,000 payout.

    From the Russian IBA.

    https://www.reuters.com/sports/olympics/boxing-iba-award-prize-money-italys-carini-despite-loss-algerias-khelif-2024-08-02/

    This whole thing has been Russian shit-stirring.

    Are you alleging that Russia deliberately arranged for Algeria to enter an intersex boxer?
    More that the Italian lady threw the fight and then cried about it.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,046
    kle4 said:

    DM_Andy said:

    ydoethur said:

    #New General Election Poll

    🔵 Harris 48% (+4)
    🔴 Trump 44%

    Last poll - 🔵 Harris +1


    Who is Too old for president

    🔴 Trump 51%
    🔵 Harris 12%

    Morning Consult


    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1820505683734995435

    Who are the 12%?
    To be fair Kamala will be 60 if she becomes President, that would rank her 13th out of 46 for oldest people to start being President.

    It's easy to forget because of the recent experience of Biden and Trump but the age of US Presidents has been remarkably steady, mostly in the 50s. You don't see the clear trends as with UK PMs, though it has been more fragmented since Reagan.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_United_States_by_age
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_age
    Age only means what you let it.

    One of our greatest Prime Ministers was 24 when he assumed the office, and others have been doing decent work into their 70s.

    And that was before modern medicine.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,297
    Taz said:

    Tim Montgomerie is absolutely right here.

    https://x.com/montie/status/1820472955547127877?s=61

    If he's implying that 10% of Britain support the rioters he is completely wrong.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,579
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    BBC:

    'Josh Kellett, 29, admitted violent disorder following the unrest in Sunderland on Friday.

    The court heard he was wearing a balaclava but was identified by his "distinctive tattoos".'

    Top tip: Wear a long sleeved shirt.

    I read that several defendants were in tears as they they were remanded in custody. In jail, awaiting a chunky sentence. Having felt invincible as they rioted.

    You do have to wonder just how dumb some people are.
    It's the same every time there's a riot. Probably a good thing showing some participants have remorse over their actions (or at least regret over getting punished, which is not as good but better than nothing). People are so easily caught up, there'll be a lot of teary 'This person was a model citizen(until now)' moments.
    I have no doubt that some people were in "the wrong place at the wrong time". Wondered what was going on and ended up in the thick of it.

    But most? Naah. If you are part of a large crowd doing a mob and rob operation, if you are filming people doing that, or cheering them, if you brought your kids to watch then you really have to expect to face the consequences of being part of a riot.

    And then we have the more active people. The ones actively smashing and burning and assaulting and terrifying. Where what happened (Roma kids taken into custody, or British Christian man commits atrocity) is just the excuse for what you want to do - terror, mayhem, destruction.

    The dude in the balaclava. Who even owns a balaclava, never mind sticks one on before heading out the door. Come on mate, what did you expect would happen?
    I've got one somewhere. I tend to use it when hillwalking in winter rather than when I am burning down shops though.
    So what do you wear when you're burning down shops?
    I'm still giving it a lot of thought. So far the uncertainty about my ensemble has held me back.
    Try a blazer...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    BBC:

    'Josh Kellett, 29, admitted violent disorder following the unrest in Sunderland on Friday.

    The court heard he was wearing a balaclava but was identified by his "distinctive tattoos".'

    Top tip: Wear a long sleeved shirt.

    I read that several defendants were in tears as they they were remanded in custody. In jail, awaiting a chunky sentence. Having felt invincible as they rioted.

    You do have to wonder just how dumb some people are.
    It's the same every time there's a riot. Probably a good thing showing some participants have remorse over their actions (or at least regret over getting punished, which is not as good but better than nothing). People are so easily caught up, there'll be a lot of teary 'This person was a model citizen(until now)' moments.
    I have no doubt that some people were in "the wrong place at the wrong time". Wondered what was going on and ended up in the thick of it.

    But most? Naah. If you are part of a large crowd doing a mob and rob operation, if you are filming people doing that, or cheering them, if you brought your kids to watch then you really have to expect to face the consequences of being part of a riot.

    And then we have the more active people. The ones actively smashing and burning and assaulting and terrifying. Where what happened (Roma kids taken into custody, or British Christian man commits atrocity) is just the excuse for what you want to do - terror, mayhem, destruction.

    The dude in the balaclava. Who even owns a balaclava, never mind sticks one on before heading out the door. Come on mate, what did you expect would happen?
    I've got one somewhere. I tend to use it when hillwalking in winter rather than when I am burning down shops though.
    My mum made me wear one when I was 8.
    Some kind of anarchist protest march I assume?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour have appointed a fanatic to inject Wokery into the national curriculum - note the chilling way that educational standards ("quality") take second place to the ideology:

    "Our intention is to help lever social justice concerns back into mainstream educational debates that have been dominated by the neo­liberal language of ‘quality’ — in which concerns with ‘equality’ have been evacuated and consigned to the margins.”

    https://www.thetimes.com/article/feminist-academic-and-blair-critic-to-lead-review-of-curriculum-dw2x8lmct

    Our intention is to help lever social justice concerns back into mainstream educational debates that have been dominated by the neo­liberal language of ‘quality’ — in which concerns with ‘equality’ have been evacuated and consigned to the margins

    A vague sentence that could mean nothing or anything, depending on what is decided.

    Social justice and neoliberal are as overused terms as some use woke - there may still be occasional legitimate use, but mostly they are buzzwords meaning nothing.
    Read the rest of it. Here's some more:

    She wrote: “This is amply illustrated by the proliferation of testing regimes, academic league tables and the regular high-profile publication of achievement statistics, from children’s earliest years through to GCSEs. Indeed, we would assert that achievement is not just an educational issue for the current government — it is the educational issue.”

    Francis appeared to be criticising Tony Blair, the prime minister at the time, who came up with the soundbite “education, education, education” as Labour swept to power. She suggests that he supported a “discursive social constructionist approach to race and ethnicity” and a “theorisation of sex, gender and sexuality as non-essential, fluid, contested, processual and produced through
    discourse”.

    There's no dressing it up; they really believe this stuff: for them, educating your children and ensuring their academic success comes a very distant second, if at all, to using education as a political tool to re-engineer society.

    And, they're serious about it.
    It is all much, much worse than we thought
    There is this commentary by Toby Young. https://archive.ph/8ywPf

    There are two things I would say about this.

    Firstly, the situation now is very bad. The system (not the people working in it) is so dysfunctional and badly broken I took my son out of the school system, moving to a different country. Any move away from micromanagement, targets and testing has to be a good thing.

    Secondly, the thing about this is that whatever labour do in power, using their massive majority based on their 'mandate' of less than 40% of the popular vote, creates material for the opposition. If people don't like ideological indoctrination, then they have to make an issue out of it, as other parents in my experience will agree.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409
    Gold!
    World record again!
  • EScrymgeourEScrymgeour Posts: 141
    Bling.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,579
    Gold in a WR!
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    👍 Cycling
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,845
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    BBC:

    'Josh Kellett, 29, admitted violent disorder following the unrest in Sunderland on Friday.

    The court heard he was wearing a balaclava but was identified by his "distinctive tattoos".'

    Top tip: Wear a long sleeved shirt.

    I read that several defendants were in tears as they they were remanded in custody. In jail, awaiting a chunky sentence. Having felt invincible as they rioted.

    You do have to wonder just how dumb some people are.
    It's the same every time there's a riot. Probably a good thing showing some participants have remorse over their actions (or at least regret over getting punished, which is not as good but better than nothing). People are so easily caught up, there'll be a lot of teary 'This person was a model citizen(until now)' moments.
    I have no doubt that some people were in "the wrong place at the wrong time". Wondered what was going on and ended up in the thick of it.

    But most? Naah. If you are part of a large crowd doing a mob and rob operation, if you are filming people doing that, or cheering them, if you brought your kids to watch then you really have to expect to face the consequences of being part of a riot.

    And then we have the more active people. The ones actively smashing and burning and assaulting and terrifying. Where what happened (Roma kids taken into custody, or British Christian man commits atrocity) is just the excuse for what you want to do - terror, mayhem, destruction.

    The dude in the balaclava. Who even owns a balaclava, never mind sticks one on before heading out the door. Come on mate, what did you expect would happen?
    I've got one somewhere. I tend to use it when hillwalking in winter rather than when I am burning down shops though.
    So what do you wear when you're burning down shops?
    I'm still giving it a lot of thought. So far the uncertainty about my ensemble has held me back.
    At least you could prepare your legal defence in advance.
    I've got my tick list ready.

    I wasn't there.
    And if I was I didn't do it.
    And if I did I was out of my mind.
    And if I wasn't it was accidental.
    And if it wasn't then I was seriously provoked.
    And if I wasn't then its a fair cop guv.
  • EScrymgeourEScrymgeour Posts: 141

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    BBC:

    'Josh Kellett, 29, admitted violent disorder following the unrest in Sunderland on Friday.

    The court heard he was wearing a balaclava but was identified by his "distinctive tattoos".'

    Top tip: Wear a long sleeved shirt.

    I read that several defendants were in tears as they they were remanded in custody. In jail, awaiting a chunky sentence. Having felt invincible as they rioted.

    You do have to wonder just how dumb some people are.
    It's the same every time there's a riot. Probably a good thing showing some participants have remorse over their actions (or at least regret over getting punished, which is not as good but better than nothing). People are so easily caught up, there'll be a lot of teary 'This person was a model citizen(until now)' moments.
    I have no doubt that some people were in "the wrong place at the wrong time". Wondered what was going on and ended up in the thick of it.

    But most? Naah. If you are part of a large crowd doing a mob and rob operation, if you are filming people doing that, or cheering them, if you brought your kids to watch then you really have to expect to face the consequences of being part of a riot.

    And then we have the more active people. The ones actively smashing and burning and assaulting and terrifying. Where what happened (Roma kids taken into custody, or British Christian man commits atrocity) is just the excuse for what you want to do - terror, mayhem, destruction.

    The dude in the balaclava. Who even owns a balaclava, never mind sticks one on before heading out the door. Come on mate, what did you expect would happen?
    I've got one somewhere. I tend to use it when hillwalking in winter rather than when I am burning down shops though.
    So what do you wear when you're burning down shops?
    I'm still giving it a lot of thought. So far the uncertainty about my ensemble has held me back.
    Try a blazer...
    And hotpants.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    rkrkrk said:

    Taz said:

    Tim Montgomerie is absolutely right here.

    https://x.com/montie/status/1820472955547127877?s=61

    If he's implying that 10% of Britain support the rioters he is completely wrong.
    I think 10% might be an underestimate.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    Fishing said:

    kle4 said:

    DM_Andy said:

    ydoethur said:

    #New General Election Poll

    🔵 Harris 48% (+4)
    🔴 Trump 44%

    Last poll - 🔵 Harris +1


    Who is Too old for president

    🔴 Trump 51%
    🔵 Harris 12%

    Morning Consult


    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1820505683734995435

    Who are the 12%?
    To be fair Kamala will be 60 if she becomes President, that would rank her 13th out of 46 for oldest people to start being President.

    It's easy to forget because of the recent experience of Biden and Trump but the age of US Presidents has been remarkably steady, mostly in the 50s. You don't see the clear trends as with UK PMs, though it has been more fragmented since Reagan.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_United_States_by_age
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_age
    Age only means what you let it.

    One of our greatest Prime Ministers was 24 when he assumed the office, and others have been doing decent work into their 70s.

    And that was before modern medicine.
    I don't quite agree age only means what you let it.

    I do agree with the view that there is nothing inherently positive about someone being an arbitrary age before they take up a particular position, there's plenty of examples of useless leaders who were the right age, had the right experience, ticked all the right boxes. Age and experience do not necessarily lead to wisdom, insight, or judgement.

    I do also think that age means different things to different people. Some are mentally but not physically there from relatively early ages, some frankly are never there mentally, as far as political ability goes, whilst in great physical shape, and so some people will have the intellect, fortutude, and stamina needed even at a very old age, even if most do not, and some people will have the wisdowm and judgement needed at a very young age even if most don't.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    BBC:

    'Josh Kellett, 29, admitted violent disorder following the unrest in Sunderland on Friday.

    The court heard he was wearing a balaclava but was identified by his "distinctive tattoos".'

    Top tip: Wear a long sleeved shirt.

    I read that several defendants were in tears as they they were remanded in custody. In jail, awaiting a chunky sentence. Having felt invincible as they rioted.

    You do have to wonder just how dumb some people are.
    It's the same every time there's a riot. Probably a good thing showing some participants have remorse over their actions (or at least regret over getting punished, which is not as good but better than nothing). People are so easily caught up, there'll be a lot of teary 'This person was a model citizen(until now)' moments.
    I have no doubt that some people were in "the wrong place at the wrong time". Wondered what was going on and ended up in the thick of it.

    But most? Naah. If you are part of a large crowd doing a mob and rob operation, if you are filming people doing that, or cheering them, if you brought your kids to watch then you really have to expect to face the consequences of being part of a riot.

    And then we have the more active people. The ones actively smashing and burning and assaulting and terrifying. Where what happened (Roma kids taken into custody, or British Christian man commits atrocity) is just the excuse for what you want to do - terror, mayhem, destruction.

    The dude in the balaclava. Who even owns a balaclava, never mind sticks one on before heading out the door. Come on mate, what did you expect would happen?
    I've got one somewhere. I tend to use it when hillwalking in winter rather than when I am burning down shops though.
    So what do you wear when you're burning down shops?
    I'm still giving it a lot of thought. So far the uncertainty about my ensemble has held me back.
    At least you could prepare your legal defence in advance.
    I've got my tick list ready.

    I wasn't there.
    And if I was I didn't do it.
    And if I did I was out of my mind.
    And if I wasn't it was accidental.
    And if it wasn't then I was seriously provoked.
    And if I wasn't then its a fair cop guv.
    And you've given us that advice for free, cheers for the lawyers!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    dixiedean said:

    Gold!
    World record again!

    That ends a period of about 10 medals without a Gold. Good.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,579
    Overtaken South Korea in the medal tale, reeling in France and Australia...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,845

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    BBC:

    'Josh Kellett, 29, admitted violent disorder following the unrest in Sunderland on Friday.

    The court heard he was wearing a balaclava but was identified by his "distinctive tattoos".'

    Top tip: Wear a long sleeved shirt.

    I read that several defendants were in tears as they they were remanded in custody. In jail, awaiting a chunky sentence. Having felt invincible as they rioted.

    You do have to wonder just how dumb some people are.
    It's the same every time there's a riot. Probably a good thing showing some participants have remorse over their actions (or at least regret over getting punished, which is not as good but better than nothing). People are so easily caught up, there'll be a lot of teary 'This person was a model citizen(until now)' moments.
    I have no doubt that some people were in "the wrong place at the wrong time". Wondered what was going on and ended up in the thick of it.

    But most? Naah. If you are part of a large crowd doing a mob and rob operation, if you are filming people doing that, or cheering them, if you brought your kids to watch then you really have to expect to face the consequences of being part of a riot.

    And then we have the more active people. The ones actively smashing and burning and assaulting and terrifying. Where what happened (Roma kids taken into custody, or British Christian man commits atrocity) is just the excuse for what you want to do - terror, mayhem, destruction.

    The dude in the balaclava. Who even owns a balaclava, never mind sticks one on before heading out the door. Come on mate, what did you expect would happen?
    I've got one somewhere. I tend to use it when hillwalking in winter rather than when I am burning down shops though.
    So what do you wear when you're burning down shops?
    I'm still giving it a lot of thought. So far the uncertainty about my ensemble has held me back.
    Try a blazer...
    And hotpants.
    Now you're talking...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    rkrkrk said:

    Taz said:

    Tim Montgomerie is absolutely right here.

    https://x.com/montie/status/1820472955547127877?s=61

    If he's implying that 10% of Britain support the rioters he is completely wrong.
    I don't think that was the point. I think it was that 10% are cut off, dependent, uncared for etc, and that is a breeding ground for the type of thing we are seeing, even if it is only a very small amount of that which supporters what is going on.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    Roger said:

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    These are in the first of a series of steps we are taking to protect PB.

    I have my own views on this issue which I will wait until calm has been restored before posting.

    Suffice to say I'm entirely unimpressed, as I am unsurprised, by the equally unimaginative, sluggish, and autocratic response by Starmer.
    Were you not impressed by how Dave dealt with the knobheads in 2011? Strikes me Starmer is going along with Dave's textbook.
    So far I have been mightily impressed. He's not a racist and hasn't dabbled in any mealy mouthed victim blaming nor giving the far right racists the tiniest fig leaf of cover. He also understands the law and hasn't given them or their backers any room for manoeuvre. This will end very soon and hopefully with several in prison. He's also got the right wing press on his side leaving the Farages and friends looking very lonely indeed. Few Tory leaders have even shown their faces
    I believe Patel, Badenoch and less so Cleverly (the BLM jibe didn't go down too well) kept their counsel and on reading the room determined that Farage is a **** who is best avoided. Jenrick and even Tugsy went early blaming Labour for the small boats and I think Jenrick hinted at two tier policing, and look like Farage apologists.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,628
    I am not a cycle geek, but the fork design of the GB team's Lotus (*) bikes seems strange. The forks seem to continue up to the handlebars, with little or no stem?

    (*) Lotus have a brilliant history of revolutionary bike designs.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_108
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,579

    #New General Election Poll

    🔵 Harris 48% (+4)
    🔴 Trump 44%

    Last poll - 🔵 Harris +1


    Who is Too old for president

    🔴 Trump 51%
    🔵 Harris 12%

    Morning Consult


    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1820505683734995435

    The momentum has swung significantly behind Harris. All of the reasons why she'd be an awful candidate have blown away - because most weren't true.

    The horror for the Trumpists is that their guy is now everything they attacked Biden for. And the more that momentum swings away from Trump the more unhinged he gets to try and bring the attention back to him.
    Trump's excuse for not appearing at the debate was that he was leading in the polls.

    Any other excuses in your back pocket. Donald?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,362
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    I mean, you can see why the Brits invented team sports to replace this Olympics shit

    I thought it was because we were so socially awkward we needed clear rules of engagement in order to hang out together in larger groups.
    No, turns out it’s quite dull. Even the Olympics. Much better on telly, and even then fairly dull
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586

    I am not a cycle geek, but the fork design of the GB team's Lotus (*) bikes seems strange. The forks seem to continue up to the handlebars, with little or no stem?

    (*) Lotus have a brilliant history of revolutionary bike designs.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_108

    Memories of Chris Boardman’s magic bike in 1992, a carbon fibre monster straight out of the F1 team, as everyone else still used metal frames.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,420

    DM_Andy said:

    ydoethur said:

    #New General Election Poll

    🔵 Harris 48% (+4)
    🔴 Trump 44%

    Last poll - 🔵 Harris +1


    Who is Too old for president

    🔴 Trump 51%
    🔵 Harris 12%

    Morning Consult


    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1820505683734995435

    Who are the 12%?
    To be fair Kamala will be 60 if she becomes President, that would rank her 13th out of 46 for oldest people to start being President.

    The 12% want Buttigieg. Age 42.
    I think I am right in saying the youngest President elected was Kennedy (43) and the youngest ever was Theodore Roosevelt (42).

    Harris may be slightly above average age but she doesn’t really compare to Biden, Trump, Reagan or even Eisenhower. Anyone saying she’s too old is talking nonsense.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    ydoethur said:

    DM_Andy said:

    ydoethur said:

    #New General Election Poll

    🔵 Harris 48% (+4)
    🔴 Trump 44%

    Last poll - 🔵 Harris +1


    Who is Too old for president

    🔴 Trump 51%
    🔵 Harris 12%

    Morning Consult


    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1820505683734995435

    Who are the 12%?
    To be fair Kamala will be 60 if she becomes President, that would rank her 13th out of 46 for oldest people to start being President.

    The 12% want Buttigieg. Age 42.
    I think I am right in saying the youngest President elected was Kennedy (43) and the youngest ever was Theodore Roosevelt (42).

    Harris may be slightly above average age but she doesn’t really compare to Biden, Trump, Reagan or even Eisenhower. Anyone saying she’s too old is talking nonsense.
    You're just saying that as we have Keir 'Methuselah' Starmer as PM.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,104
    kle4 said:

    Sounds like a good idea, maybe this guy shouldn't be the VP pick so he can keep being Governor?

    On my first day in office, I announced that 92% of state government jobs do not require a four-year college degree — opening new doors of opportunity in our Commonwealth.

    And last year, nearly 60% of our new hires didn't have a four-year college degree.

    We’re prioritizing skills and experience over arbitrary four year degrees in my Administration.

    https://nitter.poast.org/GovernorShapiro/status/1820482639532343457#m

    The reason Shapiro, Walz etc are in the frame is because they’ve been very good governors. There’s a decent argument for keeping them doing a good job where they are but they would also brig useful skills to the administration.

    The next Democratic administration, if it happens, will to a great extent be about delivery of the programs they’ve started during this one.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,479
    A brave and moving story by Craig Mackinlay.

    Reflects well on Rishi Sunak that he took time out of being PM to visit him in hospital:

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/society/article/craig-mackinlay-my-wife-refused-to-sign-do-not-resuscitate-order-for-me-vx5lq6bt2
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,678
    dixiedean said:

    I am not a cycle geek, but the fork design of the GB team's Lotus (*) bikes seems strange. The forks seem to continue up to the handlebars, with little or no stem?

    (*) Lotus have a brilliant history of revolutionary bike designs.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_108

    The first six words of that post belie the rest.
    The thing about being a geek is there is always a bigger geek
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,420
    edited August 5
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    DM_Andy said:

    ydoethur said:

    #New General Election Poll

    🔵 Harris 48% (+4)
    🔴 Trump 44%

    Last poll - 🔵 Harris +1


    Who is Too old for president

    🔴 Trump 51%
    🔵 Harris 12%

    Morning Consult


    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1820505683734995435

    Who are the 12%?
    To be fair Kamala will be 60 if she becomes President, that would rank her 13th out of 46 for oldest people to start being President.

    The 12% want Buttigieg. Age 42.
    I think I am right in saying the youngest President elected was Kennedy (43) and the youngest ever was Theodore Roosevelt (42).

    Harris may be slightly above average age but she doesn’t really compare to Biden, Trump, Reagan or even Eisenhower. Anyone saying she’s too old is talking nonsense.
    You're just saying that as we have Keir 'Methuselah' Starmer as PM.
    He’s hardly ridiculously above average age either. Not compared to Gladstone,* Palmerston, Churchill, Macmillan, Campbell-Bannerman. He’s comparable in age to Thatcher, Asquith or Lloyd George.

    *Gladstone was admittedly *only* 59 in forming his first administration but was 83 when he formed his final one.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Starmer ia going to end up more hated than Boris and more reviled than Sunak and possibly more laughable than Truss

    All their initial instincts are wrong. They’ve already shown they have no ideas and those ideas they have are fucking contemptibly stupid. Starmer is an over promoted dork and reeves is probably worse

    There is certainly a risk of this. There is an underclass in the UK, spread across many towns and cities where they live in places long abandoned by wider society and the public's concern. No matter how hard they work - if they can find work - they can never get by and never escape.

    There is a specific immediate need to do something about these riots, but there is also a longer-term need to address the grinding poverty which is the backdrop for all of these places currently ablaze.

    Labour's challenge is not to shat the bed as spectacularly as the Tories did. You can't offer hope then deliver more failure. But if we get a few years in and there is no change and no hope, then I can see how Farage and even further to the right populists can clean up. Offering neo-fascist solutions to problems that nobody wants to address.

    I have no problem debating the whys and wherefores of migration. But if we want to significantly reduce it we will need a significant restructure of the economy to cover both the costs of labour and the huge investment needed into these places to pull them and the underclass out of grinding poverty. Farage et al offer crayon economics as to how they could fund such things, but in the real world it is much harder.

    Ultimately, the cost of action may be less than the cost of inaction. Tories endlessly say "how will we pay for x" even though we always find the higher cost of y when we say that x is unaffordable and suffer y as a direct consequence.
    Well at least Farage and co offer these places something. The mainstream politicians and parties haven’t. They now need to get their act together and do something to try to level up.
    Farage offers burnt towns and people beaten up when they mind their own business. The less anyone has to do with him the better.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,628
    dixiedean said:

    I am not a cycle geek, but the fork design of the GB team's Lotus (*) bikes seems strange. The forks seem to continue up to the handlebars, with little or no stem?

    (*) Lotus have a brilliant history of revolutionary bike designs.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_108

    The first six words of that post belie the rest.
    You've never met a true cycle geek. @Dura_Ace for one...

    I am a mere amateur. Which is why I'll be overtaken many times on Sunday... :)
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    Yes, old folks can be competent. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Grassley

    But many aren't, for example, in her later years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianne_Feinstein

    (Fun fact: Grassley's Senate office has had an unusually high number of marriages, between men and women who met while working for him. His own family sets a good example.)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,579
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    BBC:

    'Josh Kellett, 29, admitted violent disorder following the unrest in Sunderland on Friday.

    The court heard he was wearing a balaclava but was identified by his "distinctive tattoos".'

    Top tip: Wear a long sleeved shirt.

    I read that several defendants were in tears as they they were remanded in custody. In jail, awaiting a chunky sentence. Having felt invincible as they rioted.

    You do have to wonder just how dumb some people are.
    It's the same every time there's a riot. Probably a good thing showing some participants have remorse over their actions (or at least regret over getting punished, which is not as good but better than nothing). People are so easily caught up, there'll be a lot of teary 'This person was a model citizen(until now)' moments.
    I have no doubt that some people were in "the wrong place at the wrong time". Wondered what was going on and ended up in the thick of it.

    But most? Naah. If you are part of a large crowd doing a mob and rob operation, if you are filming people doing that, or cheering them, if you brought your kids to watch then you really have to expect to face the consequences of being part of a riot.

    And then we have the more active people. The ones actively smashing and burning and assaulting and terrifying. Where what happened (Roma kids taken into custody, or British Christian man commits atrocity) is just the excuse for what you want to do - terror, mayhem, destruction.

    The dude in the balaclava. Who even owns a balaclava, never mind sticks one on before heading out the door. Come on mate, what did you expect would happen?
    I've got one somewhere. I tend to use it when hillwalking in winter rather than when I am burning down shops though.
    So what do you wear when you're burning down shops?
    I'm still giving it a lot of thought. So far the uncertainty about my ensemble has held me back.
    Try a blazer...
    And hotpants.
    Now you're talking...
    Although, that blazer and hotpants combo might stand out on CCTV...
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Sounds like a good idea, maybe this guy shouldn't be the VP pick so he can keep being Governor?

    On my first day in office, I announced that 92% of state government jobs do not require a four-year college degree — opening new doors of opportunity in our Commonwealth.

    And last year, nearly 60% of our new hires didn't have a four-year college degree.

    We’re prioritizing skills and experience over arbitrary four year degrees in my Administration.

    https://nitter.poast.org/GovernorShapiro/status/1820482639532343457#m

    The reason Shapiro, Walz etc are in the frame is because they’ve been very good governors. There’s a decent argument for keeping them doing a good job where they are but they would also brig useful skills to the administration.

    The next Democratic administration, if it happens, will to a great extent be about delivery of the programs they’ve started during this one.
    Also, for the Dems, losing a governor in a red state is less damaging than losing a senator in one. especially in an election cycle where the GOP most of the senators up are in safe red states with few if any chances of a flip. lose one governor or control of the senate
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    DM_Andy said:

    ydoethur said:

    #New General Election Poll

    🔵 Harris 48% (+4)
    🔴 Trump 44%

    Last poll - 🔵 Harris +1


    Who is Too old for president

    🔴 Trump 51%
    🔵 Harris 12%

    Morning Consult


    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1820505683734995435

    Who are the 12%?
    To be fair Kamala will be 60 if she becomes President, that would rank her 13th out of 46 for oldest people to start being President.

    The 12% want Buttigieg. Age 42.
    I think I am right in saying the youngest President elected was Kennedy (43) and the youngest ever was Theodore Roosevelt (42).

    Harris may be slightly above average age but she doesn’t really compare to Biden, Trump, Reagan or even Eisenhower. Anyone saying she’s too old is talking nonsense.
    You're just saying that as we have Keir 'Methuselah' Starmer as PM.
    He’s hardly ridiculously above average age either. Not compared to Gladstone, Palmerston, Churchill, Macmillan, Campbell-Bannerman. He’s comparable in age to Thatcher, Asquith or Lloyd George.
    But...but GB News said Starmer's age was an issue!

    https://www.gbnews.com/opinion/keir-starmer-age-questions-keith-bays
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,678
    I like Northumbria Police's style: https://x.com/northumbriapol/status/1820506183297343819?t=QZg3QaQNjGtOR1aymt2wKw&s=19

    I hope a fear of your face and name being plastered all over social media is going to limit this to only the most hardcore individuals.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,670

    I am not a cycle geek, but the fork design of the GB team's Lotus (*) bikes seems strange. The forks seem to continue up to the handlebars, with little or no stem?

    (*) Lotus have a brilliant history of revolutionary bike designs.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_108

    I believe these days the bike has to be available for purchase for it to be approved.

    I wonder what the price tag is?

    Ah:
    https://www.hopetechhb.com/hbt

    £25k for the frame with the fork "POA"...

    I assume that last bit means that if you ask nicely you might get a delivery date some time after the Olympics have finished...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    Eabhal said:

    I like Northumbria Police's style: https://x.com/northumbriapol/status/1820506183297343819?t=QZg3QaQNjGtOR1aymt2wKw&s=19

    I hope a fear of your face and name being plastered all over social media is going to limit this to only the most hardcore individuals.

    Florida style crime reporting.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,104
    ydoethur said:

    DM_Andy said:

    ydoethur said:

    #New General Election Poll

    🔵 Harris 48% (+4)
    🔴 Trump 44%

    Last poll - 🔵 Harris +1


    Who is Too old for president

    🔴 Trump 51%
    🔵 Harris 12%

    Morning Consult


    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1820505683734995435

    Who are the 12%?
    To be fair Kamala will be 60 if she becomes President, that would rank her 13th out of 46 for oldest people to start being President.

    The 12% want Buttigieg. Age 42.
    I think I am right in saying the youngest President elected was Kennedy (43) and the youngest ever was Theodore Roosevelt (42).

    Harris may be slightly above average age but she doesn’t really compare to Biden, Trump, Reagan or even Eisenhower. Anyone saying she’s too old is talking nonsense.
    Eisenhower was only 62 when he first took office.
    He just looked more like Walz.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,362
    My god that was crushingly dull. Give me wine near the Opera
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,104
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    DM_Andy said:

    ydoethur said:

    #New General Election Poll

    🔵 Harris 48% (+4)
    🔴 Trump 44%

    Last poll - 🔵 Harris +1


    Who is Too old for president

    🔴 Trump 51%
    🔵 Harris 12%

    Morning Consult


    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1820505683734995435

    Who are the 12%?
    To be fair Kamala will be 60 if she becomes President, that would rank her 13th out of 46 for oldest people to start being President.

    The 12% want Buttigieg. Age 42.
    I think I am right in saying the youngest President elected was Kennedy (43) and the youngest ever was Theodore Roosevelt (42).

    Harris may be slightly above average age but she doesn’t really compare to Biden, Trump, Reagan or even Eisenhower. Anyone saying she’s too old is talking nonsense.
    You're just saying that as we have Keir 'Methuselah' Starmer as PM.
    He’s hardly ridiculously above average age either. Not compared to Gladstone, Palmerston, Churchill, Macmillan, Campbell-Bannerman. He’s comparable in age to Thatcher, Asquith or Lloyd George.
    But...but GB News said Starmer's age was an issue!

    https://www.gbnews.com/opinion/keir-starmer-age-questions-keith-bays
    Too youthful for their audience ?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,628
    Sandpit said:

    I am not a cycle geek, but the fork design of the GB team's Lotus (*) bikes seems strange. The forks seem to continue up to the handlebars, with little or no stem?

    (*) Lotus have a brilliant history of revolutionary bike designs.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_108

    Memories of Chris Boardman’s magic bike in 1992, a carbon fibre monster straight out of the F1 team, as everyone else still used metal frames.
    Yes, the bike I linked to. :)

    That Wiki article includes the following about 1992:
    "The publicity of this medal, the first British cycling gold medal at the Olympics in 72 years"

    We've won a few since then!

    This article shows some of the details; there are even 'bumps' on the back of the forks designed to improve airflow around the rider's legs. And the seatpost is weirdly shaped.
    https://otbengineering.wordpress.com/2023/08/01/paris-2024-track-olympic-equipment-roundup-part-1/

    And as it's an Olympics bike, we mere mortals *should* be able to buy one. You can pick up the 2020 version from them for £25,000. And that's cheap compared to some of the bikes being used.

    The Olympics insist that any bike used should be available to the consumer. At a price...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373

    #New General Election Poll

    🔵 Harris 48% (+4)
    🔴 Trump 44%

    Last poll - 🔵 Harris +1


    Who is Too old for president

    🔴 Trump 51%
    🔵 Harris 12%

    Morning Consult


    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1820505683734995435

    The momentum has swung significantly behind Harris. All of the reasons why she'd be an awful candidate have blown away - because most weren't true.

    The horror for the Trumpists is that their guy is now everything they attacked Biden for. And the more that momentum swings away from Trump the more unhinged he gets to try and bring the attention back to him.
    Trump's excuse for not appearing at the debate was that he was leading in the polls.

    Any other excuses in your back pocket. Donald?
    "I am a rambling old w****** and I can't be trusted not to say some traitorous mad s***!"
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,272
    GIN1138 said:

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    Cards marked, but surely nobody on PB would do such a thing, would they? :open_mouth:
    Take legal advice? Goodness no!
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127

    Roger said:

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    These are in the first of a series of steps we are taking to protect PB.

    I have my own views on this issue which I will wait until calm has been restored before posting.

    Suffice to say I'm entirely unimpressed, as I am unsurprised, by the equally unimaginative, sluggish, and autocratic response by Starmer.
    Were you not impressed by how Dave dealt with the knobheads in 2011? Strikes me Starmer is going along with Dave's textbook.
    So far I have been mightily impressed. He's not a racist and hasn't dabbled in any mealy mouthed victim blaming nor giving the far right racists the tiniest fig leaf of cover. He also understands the law and hasn't given them or their backers any room for manoeuvre. This will end very soon and hopefully with several in prison. He's also got the right wing press on his side leaving the Farages and friends looking very lonely indeed. Few Tory leaders have even shown their faces
    I believe Patel, Badenoch and less so Cleverly (the BLM jibe didn't go down too well) kept their counsel and on reading the room determined that Farage is a **** who is best avoided. Jenrick and even Tugsy went early blaming Labour for the small boats and I think Jenrick hinted at two tier policing, and look like Farage apologists.
    Priti Patel's been very direct in saying that Farage is wrong, far more so than Starmer has been prepared to. I feel like some in the Labour high command (McSweeney in particular) want to soft pedal against Reform because Reform cause the Tories more problems than them. Feels a bit like the way the US Democrats have helped MAGA Republicans against more moderate opponents. If that is what Labour are doing it's playing a dangerous game with very high stakes.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    200m athletes already running under 20s, in the 1st round heats of the competition!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    DM_Andy said:

    Roger said:

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    These are in the first of a series of steps we are taking to protect PB.

    I have my own views on this issue which I will wait until calm has been restored before posting.

    Suffice to say I'm entirely unimpressed, as I am unsurprised, by the equally unimaginative, sluggish, and autocratic response by Starmer.
    Were you not impressed by how Dave dealt with the knobheads in 2011? Strikes me Starmer is going along with Dave's textbook.
    So far I have been mightily impressed. He's not a racist and hasn't dabbled in any mealy mouthed victim blaming nor giving the far right racists the tiniest fig leaf of cover. He also understands the law and hasn't given them or their backers any room for manoeuvre. This will end very soon and hopefully with several in prison. He's also got the right wing press on his side leaving the Farages and friends looking very lonely indeed. Few Tory leaders have even shown their faces
    I believe Patel, Badenoch and less so Cleverly (the BLM jibe didn't go down too well) kept their counsel and on reading the room determined that Farage is a **** who is best avoided. Jenrick and even Tugsy went early blaming Labour for the small boats and I think Jenrick hinted at two tier policing, and look like Farage apologists.
    Priti Patel's been very direct in saying that Farage is wrong, far more so than Starmer has been prepared to. I feel like some in the Labour high command (McSweeney in particular) want to soft pedal against Reform because Reform cause the Tories more problems than them. Feels a bit like the way the US Democrats have helped MAGA Republicans against more moderate opponents. If that is what Labour are doing it's playing a dangerous game with very high stakes.
    If that is true it is a major error from Starmer- Labour They need to paint Farage as Little Tommy Tuppence's ideological bedfellow.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,594
    "UNRWA has fired 9 employees after an internal program found they were likely involved in the October 7th massacre."

    Better hope they're cleaning house if Starmer's going to start giving them our money again.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,579
    If Harris does win, the Republican Party are going to be in one hell of a mess as they try to move on from Trump.

    They are going to need a "Bobby Ewing in the shower" reboot - just try and deny Trump and MAGA was ever a thing. But then how many MAGA supporters turn their back?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,647
    edited August 5
    As I keep saying, there is zero public tolerance for violence and disorder. Goodwin and Farage have unquestionably picked the wrong side here.

    Should those taking part in the recent riots receive sentences that are harsher than usual for that kind of crime?

    Should be harsher: 49%
    Should be about the same as normal: 39%
    Should be more lenient: 4%


    https://x.com/Samfr/status/1820501295675183193
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,579

    #New General Election Poll

    🔵 Harris 48% (+4)
    🔴 Trump 44%

    Last poll - 🔵 Harris +1


    Who is Too old for president

    🔴 Trump 51%
    🔵 Harris 12%

    Morning Consult


    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1820505683734995435

    The momentum has swung significantly behind Harris. All of the reasons why she'd be an awful candidate have blown away - because most weren't true.

    The horror for the Trumpists is that their guy is now everything they attacked Biden for. And the more that momentum swings away from Trump the more unhinged he gets to try and bring the attention back to him.
    Trump's excuse for not appearing at the debate was that he was leading in the polls.

    Any other excuses in your back pocket. Donald?
    "I am a rambling old w****** and I can't be trusted not to say some traitorous mad s***!"
    Trump would NEVER admit to being old.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,628
    edited August 5
    carnforth said:

    "UNRWA has fired 9 employees after an internal program found they were likely involved in the October 7th massacre."

    Better hope they're cleaning house if Starmer's going to start giving them our money again.

    Linky please.

    But if real, then I wonder what @Roger makes of it...

    Edit: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnvyyz8461yo
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 435
    edited August 5

    If Harris does win, the Republican Party are going to be in one hell of a mess as they try to move on from Trump.

    They are going to need a "Bobby Ewing in the shower" reboot - just try and deny Trump and MAGA was ever a thing. But then how many MAGA supporters turn their back?

    Not so sure about that.

    The internal logic, surely, favours the TrumpSpawn?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,362
    Why did they build their national stadium in literally the worst place in France and six hours walk from the nearest tube station

    It is still bewildering
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104

    As I keep saying, there is zero public tolerance for violence and disorder. Goodwin and Farage have unquestionably picked the wrong side here.

    Should those taking part in the recent riots receive sentences that are harsher than usual for that kind of crime?

    Should be harsher: 49%
    Should be about the same as normal: 39%
    Should be more lenient: 4%


    https://x.com/Samfr/status/1820501295675183193

    It should be harsher because there is an associated effort to help the disorder and crime spread wider when you participate in it.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,876
    Perhaps, and something I have certainly mentioned before if police actually pursued low level crime like burglary, car theft and mugging it wouldn't embolden these sort of people of whatever political bent or none that they can act with impunity for more serious crime
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    edited August 5

    If Harris does win, the Republican Party are going to be in one hell of a mess as they try to move on from Trump.

    They are going to need a "Bobby Ewing in the shower" reboot - just try and deny Trump and MAGA was ever a thing. But then how many MAGA supporters turn their back?

    Not so sure about that.

    The internal logic, surely, favours the TrumpSpawn?
    Don Jr and Eric wish they had a tenth of the charisma of their dad. They try hard, they can act as his hype men and apologists, I can see them getting an amount of support, but other big hitters in MAGA land would credibly argue they are more like Trump than they are, despite their names. Factions would split.
  • DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 888
    Assuming KH wins the 800m (currently 1.16), the current 2.04 for SPOTY looks very good value?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    kle4 said:

    As I keep saying, there is zero public tolerance for violence and disorder. Goodwin and Farage have unquestionably picked the wrong side here.

    Should those taking part in the recent riots receive sentences that are harsher than usual for that kind of crime?

    Should be harsher: 49%
    Should be about the same as normal: 39%
    Should be more lenient: 4%


    https://x.com/Samfr/status/1820501295675183193

    It should be harsher because there is an associated effort to help the disorder and crime spread wider when you participate in it.
    I'm not sure I agree with this. Perhaps for some but probably not for all.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,647
    kle4 said:

    If Harris does win, the Republican Party are going to be in one hell of a mess as they try to move on from Trump.

    They are going to need a "Bobby Ewing in the shower" reboot - just try and deny Trump and MAGA was ever a thing. But then how many MAGA supporters turn their back?

    Not so sure about that.

    The internal logic, surely, favours the TrumpSpawn?
    Don Jr and Eric wish they had a tenth of the charisma of their dad. They try hard, they can act as his hype men and apologists, I can see them getting an amount of support, but other big hitters in MAGA land would credibly argue they are more like Trump than they are, despite their names. Factions would split.
    I like Donald Trump Jr.

    It is some achievement to be the worst human being in the world called Donald Trump.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    As I keep saying, there is zero public tolerance for violence and disorder. Goodwin and Farage have unquestionably picked the wrong side here.

    Should those taking part in the recent riots receive sentences that are harsher than usual for that kind of crime?

    Should be harsher: 49%
    Should be about the same as normal: 39%
    Should be more lenient: 4%


    https://x.com/Samfr/status/1820501295675183193

    It should be harsher because there is an associated effort to help the disorder and crime spread wider when you participate in it.
    I'm not sure I agree with this. Perhaps for some but probably not for all.
    Everything is circumstance dependent of course, not everyone will deserve that, but the context of the rioting in itself I would argue is a severe aggravating factor for those caught, especially this far into the event.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited August 5
    I've just seen Patel saying it as it is. The few racist politicians left are finding themselves rather isolated. I have a feeling Patel is just a slightly smarter politician than the rest and can see which way the wind is blowing. Ch4 is worth watching. This is nothing to do with immigration. Just morons who don't like anyone who isn't the same shade as they are
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,385

    DM_Andy said:

    Roger said:

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    These are in the first of a series of steps we are taking to protect PB.

    I have my own views on this issue which I will wait until calm has been restored before posting.

    Suffice to say I'm entirely unimpressed, as I am unsurprised, by the equally unimaginative, sluggish, and autocratic response by Starmer.
    Were you not impressed by how Dave dealt with the knobheads in 2011? Strikes me Starmer is going along with Dave's textbook.
    So far I have been mightily impressed. He's not a racist and hasn't dabbled in any mealy mouthed victim blaming nor giving the far right racists the tiniest fig leaf of cover. He also understands the law and hasn't given them or their backers any room for manoeuvre. This will end very soon and hopefully with several in prison. He's also got the right wing press on his side leaving the Farages and friends looking very lonely indeed. Few Tory leaders have even shown their faces
    I believe Patel, Badenoch and less so Cleverly (the BLM jibe didn't go down too well) kept their counsel and on reading the room determined that Farage is a **** who is best avoided. Jenrick and even Tugsy went early blaming Labour for the small boats and I think Jenrick hinted at two tier policing, and look like Farage apologists.
    Priti Patel's been very direct in saying that Farage is wrong, far more so than Starmer has been prepared to. I feel like some in the Labour high command (McSweeney in particular) want to soft pedal against Reform because Reform cause the Tories more problems than them. Feels a bit like the way the US Democrats have helped MAGA Republicans against more moderate opponents. If that is what Labour are doing it's playing a dangerous game with very high stakes.
    If that is true it is a major error from Starmer- Labour They need to paint Farage as Little Tommy Tuppence's ideological bedfellow.
    Tricky. Ask yourself - what would Farage like? Answer: a full-on attack by Starmer and Cooper blaming him for inciting these riots along with Tommy. Then he could play the martyr and, possibly, get more of his supporters to 'protest'.

    So, Starmer-Labour may be playing it right at the moment. They can go for Farage once the current troubles have died down.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    Briefly.

    Iran has informed the Israelis via intermediary that they will attack israel directly

    Russias defence minister has completed a meeting with the Iranians in recent hours

    A number of Western countries are into active evacuation of citizens from Lebanon. Bear in mind thats a step up from 'get yourselves out and do not go'.

    Certainly suggests an anywhere from 6 to 48 hours timeline.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,594

    carnforth said:

    "UNRWA has fired 9 employees after an internal program found they were likely involved in the October 7th massacre."

    Better hope they're cleaning house if Starmer's going to start giving them our money again.

    Linky please.

    But if real, then I wonder what @Roger makes of it...

    Edit: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnvyyz8461yo
    Worth pointing out for balance that they employ 13000 people. So just by the numbers hundreds or thousands of their employees will believe in violence against Israel and/or Jews.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,702
    ydoethur said:

    #New General Election Poll

    🔵 Harris 48% (+4)
    🔴 Trump 44%

    Last poll - 🔵 Harris +1


    Who is Too old for president

    🔴 Trump 51%
    🔵 Harris 12%

    Morning Consult


    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1820505683734995435

    Who are the 12%?
    Probably a good baseline for the racist vote in the US.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    I'm pretty sure that it's St John's Oxford that's supposed to own land joining Oxford and Cambridge

    Or maybe St John's Ox and Cam combined?

    The bloke who told me worked for one of the Cambridge colleges. I can't remember which one: it was probably either Jesus or Trinity. Therefore I assume the version of the myth I was told was about Cambridge.

    It's probably the sort of myth that was true-ish three hundred years ago, but is not far from the truth.
    It’s trinity, one of the largest landowners in the country along with the monarch and the Duke of Westminster.
  • EScrymgeourEScrymgeour Posts: 141
    Yokes said:

    Briefly.

    Iran has informed the Israelis via intermediary that they will attack israel directly

    Russias defence minister has completed a meeting with the Iranians in recent hours

    A number of Western countries are into active evacuation of citizens from Lebanon. Bear in mind thats a step up from 'get yourselves out and do not go'.

    Certainly suggests an anywhere from 6 to 48 hours timeline.

    I have 3am Israeli time on Wednesday in the pub sweepstakes
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,845
    Yokes said:

    Briefly.

    Iran has informed the Israelis via intermediary that they will attack israel directly

    Russias defence minister has completed a meeting with the Iranians in recent hours

    A number of Western countries are into active evacuation of citizens from Lebanon. Bear in mind thats a step up from 'get yourselves out and do not go'.

    Certainly suggests an anywhere from 6 to 48 hours timeline.

    Feck. Netanyahu is becoming a serious liability. The world did not need this.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,594
    Yokes said:

    Briefly.

    Iran has informed the Israelis via intermediary that they will attack israel directly

    Russias defence minister has completed a meeting with the Iranians in recent hours

    A number of Western countries are into active evacuation of citizens from Lebanon. Bear in mind thats a step up from 'get yourselves out and do not go'.

    Certainly suggests an anywhere from 6 to 48 hours timeline.

    What's the most likely retaliation target?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,793

    Leon said:

    It’s quite boring. Think I preferred horse dancing in Greenwich

    You could always run across the hammer field as they are throwing if you want a bit more excitement.
    Dodging the javelin, catching the shot putt, returning the archers arrows, there are all sorts of sports @leon could have a go at.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,668
    Yokes said:

    Briefly.

    Iran has informed the Israelis via intermediary that they will attack israel directly

    They'll attack them directly but they don't dare inform them directly.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 964

    As I keep saying, there is zero public tolerance for violence and disorder. Goodwin and Farage have unquestionably picked the wrong side here.

    Should those taking part in the recent riots receive sentences that are harsher than usual for that kind of crime?

    Should be harsher: 49%
    Should be about the same as normal: 39%
    Should be more lenient: 4%


    https://x.com/Samfr/status/1820501295675183193

    4% is the baseline for number of racists in the country then
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited August 5
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    I mean, you can see why the Brits invented team sports to replace this Olympics shit

    I thought it was because we were so socially awkward we needed clear rules of engagement in order to hang out together in larger groups.
    No, turns out it’s quite dull. Even the Olympics. Much better on telly, and even then fairly dull
    You’re there to make some noise for the Brits. Show some patriotism, for a change, instead of always running the country down.

    And enjoy seeing at close quarters one of the benefits of immigration.

    I remember golden Saturday during London 2012, when I was in the stadium to see the British golds. The atmosphere was incredible, but you only really see what is going on when you have it on TV at home.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Eabhal said:

    I like Northumbria Police's style: https://x.com/northumbriapol/status/1820506183297343819?t=QZg3QaQNjGtOR1aymt2wKw&s=19

    I hope a fear of your face and name being plastered all over social media is going to limit this to only the most hardcore individuals.

    Clever move. Photograph them and put their mug shots in the local papers. Then hold them in custody until their trial. This thing isn't going to last too long. They'll be joining the ANL before you can say cheese
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373

    #New General Election Poll

    🔵 Harris 48% (+4)
    🔴 Trump 44%

    Last poll - 🔵 Harris +1


    Who is Too old for president

    🔴 Trump 51%
    🔵 Harris 12%

    Morning Consult


    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1820505683734995435

    The momentum has swung significantly behind Harris. All of the reasons why she'd be an awful candidate have blown away - because most weren't true.

    The horror for the Trumpists is that their guy is now everything they attacked Biden for. And the more that momentum swings away from Trump the more unhinged he gets to try and bring the attention back to him.
    Trump's excuse for not appearing at the debate was that he was leading in the polls.

    Any other excuses in your back pocket. Donald?
    "I am a rambling old w****** and I can't be trusted not to say some traitorous mad s***!"
    Trump would NEVER admit to being old.
    Oh sorry, I wasn't referencing Trump. It was a personal admission!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,104
    This is the strongest argument of favour of Walz, and it is a strong one.

    @GovTimWalz represents the course-correction on class, rural & regional messaging that Dems have needed for decades. As someone for whom PLACE outstrips every other identity, I've never felt seen or represented in the White House in my lifetime & that would change with VP Walz.
    https://x.com/Sarah_Smarsh/status/1820485202717847615
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Assuming KH wins the 800m (currently 1.16), the current 2.04 for SPOTY looks very good value?

    What are Finucane’s odds for SPOTY as she’s tipped for a bagful of golds.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,793
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    I mean, you can see why the Brits invented team sports to replace this Olympics shit

    I thought it was because we were so socially awkward we needed clear rules of engagement in order to hang out together in larger groups.
    No, turns out it’s quite dull. Even the Olympics. Much better on telly, and even then fairly dull
    If you aren't enjoying it why not give your ticket to someone who will. I imagine they were sort after.

    I always think that the grid walk at GPs should dump the celebrities and invite some random people watching in the crowd who are sitting on the grass banks, ideally youngsters. Make their day rather than a celeb, who doesn't care and probably isn't a fan.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 798
    edited August 5
    Pagan2 said:

    Perhaps, and something I have certainly mentioned before if police actually pursued low level crime like burglary, car theft and mugging it wouldn't embolden these sort of people of whatever political bent or none that they can act with impunity for more serious crime

    I think that's why this is about a decade after the Duggan riots, which themselves were about a decade after the Oldham riots*. Need a new generation to come on steam who've forgotten about the exemplary punishment rioters get.

    *And same pattern for Poll Tax and Brixton, and maybe even further back. Wow I just invented a theory of riots.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    Nigelb said:

    This is the strongest argument of favour of Walz, and it is a strong one.

    @GovTimWalz represents the course-correction on class, rural & regional messaging that Dems have needed for decades. As someone for whom PLACE outstrips every other identity, I've never felt seen or represented in the White House in my lifetime & that would change with VP Walz.
    https://x.com/Sarah_Smarsh/status/1820485202717847615

    I'd never heard of him until today, his name must have slipped past me as an option amongst flashier candidates.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,857
    Leon said:

    Why did they build their national stadium in literally the worst place in France and six hours walk from the nearest tube station

    It is still bewildering

    18 minutes walk.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    Roger said:

    Eabhal said:

    I like Northumbria Police's style: https://x.com/northumbriapol/status/1820506183297343819?t=QZg3QaQNjGtOR1aymt2wKw&s=19

    I hope a fear of your face and name being plastered all over social media is going to limit this to only the most hardcore individuals.

    Clever move. Photograph them and put their mug shots in the local papers. Then hold them in custody until their trial. This thing isn't going to last too long. They'll be joining the ANL before you can say cheese
    They've had their trial, at least they are smart enough to plead guilty - they are on remand until sentencing.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,362
    edited August 5
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    I mean, you can see why the Brits invented team sports to replace this Olympics shit

    I thought it was because we were so socially awkward we needed clear rules of engagement in order to hang out together in larger groups.
    No, turns out it’s quite dull. Even the Olympics. Much better on telly, and even then fairly dull
    You’re there to make some noise for the Brits. Show some patriotism, for a change, instead of always running the country down.

    I remember golden Saturday during London 2012, when I was in the stadium to see the British golds. The atmosphere was incredible, but you only really see what is going on when you have it on TV at home.
    Yes whatever
This discussion has been closed.