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Team Harris will take this right now – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,213
edited August 26 in General
imageTeam Harris will take this right now – politicalbetting.com

Kamala Harris has a 1-point edge over Donald Trump nationally – something Joe Biden never had (he was down 5 points when he left the race). And Harris and Trump are tied across the collective battleground states. https://t.co/QhtbC8yPEj pic.twitter.com/vqZSuQIZZs

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,887
    edited August 5
    2nd Rate.

    I endorse this message V .
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    edited August 5

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    Cards marked, but surely nobody on PB would do such a thing, would they? :open_mouth:
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,404
    Call me Mr Thicky but I can't get my head round Team Harris. Her name is Kamala just as Johnson's name was Boris.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,716

    Call me Mr Thicky but I can't get my head round Team Harris. Her name is Kamala just as Johnson's name was Boris.

    she should go with:

    Kamala, aka Karma.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888

    Call me Mr Thicky but I can't get my head round Team Harris. Her name is Kamala just as Johnson's name was Boris.

    Boris was his nom de plume, or better still his stage name. He has always been Alexander or Al.

    Perhaps the name "Boris" curried favour with his oligarch friends.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,238

    Call me Mr Thicky but I can't get my head round Team Harris. Her name is Kamala just as Johnson's name was Boris.

    Don’t tell anybody but I am having a bit of a crisis.

    I misused an apostrophe at work and well everyone is having fun that the Grammar Nazi has been hoist by his own petard.

    I was like should be Harris’s or Harris’ and I’ve lost faith in myself and thought feck it, Team Harris will do.
    Apostrophe's are such a nightmare, aren't they?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,128
    I see Nigeria (homcide rate 35 per 100k) has issued a travel warning for the UK (homicide rate <1/100k) over the riots.

    South Africa and Brazil may be next, then Russia and India will start warning about the terrible corrpution here.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    Call me Mr Thicky but I can't get my head round Team Harris. Her name is Kamala just as Johnson's name was Boris.

    Don’t tell anybody but I am having a bit of a crisis.

    I misused an apostrophe at work and well everyone is having fun that the Grammar Nazi has been hoist by his own petard.

    I was like should be Harris’s or Harris’ and I’ve lost faith in myself and thought feck it, Team Harris will do.
    You reacted incorrectly there.

    The whole point of making an obvious mistake is to allow everything else you are trying to slip through pass unnoticed as everyone picks on the mistake.

    It's a trick I've used fairly often followed by Thank you for picking up on the minor grammar mistake, as there are no objections to the suggestings of XYZ so we are implementing it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,986
    World record for GB in the cycling!!!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,333

    Call me Mr Thicky but I can't get my head round Team Harris. Her name is Kamala just as Johnson's name was Boris.

    Don’t tell anybody but I am having a bit of a crisis.

    I misused an apostrophe at work and well everyone is having fun that the Grammar Nazi has been hoist by his own petard.

    I was like should be Harris’s or Harris’ and I’ve lost faith in myself and thought feck it, Team Harris will do.
    Not surprised: there is real divergence thanks to disgraceful sloppiness these days. One might as well expect the correct usage of whom, whither or whence.

    I stick to the old rule - no added s after monosyllabic words ending in s or z. Always safer. Unless it's publisher house rules in which case I go by them.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    edited August 5

    Call me Mr Thicky but I can't get my head round Team Harris. Her name is Kamala just as Johnson's name was Boris.

    Don’t tell anybody but I am having a bit of a crisis.

    I misused an apostrophe at work and well everyone is having fun that the Grammar Nazi has been hoist by his own petard.

    I was like should be Harris’s or Harris’ and I’ve lost faith in myself and thought feck it, Team Harris will do.
    I would use Harris' team, however I am fairly sure that is incorrect and it should be Harris's team.

    A teacher in the 1970s had a trick to remember when to use an apostrophe before a possessive noun. He suggested the apostrophe allowed "his" to be shortened (irrespective of gender) so "Peter his car" would be shortened to "Peter's car". Equally "Jane his car" would be shortened to "Jane's car". So under that rule "Harris his team's" would be shortened to "Harris's team".

    Well, it's generally worked for me.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,036
    "Team Harris" is a good choice. In American elections above the very local level, teams are necessary, and give voters some idea how well a candidate might manage something larger.

    (Incidentally, one of the defects in Kamala Harris's career is the high staff turnover while she was VP. Dunno any more about it than that, but I think it does call for an explanation.)
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,755
    Extraordinary to see people so vexed about Twitter/X, which is open algorithm. And say so little about Telegram.

    Have a friend currently overseas who lives by an asylum hotel, who is concerned things may spill to his locale. Checked the Telegram channel posted on the earlier thread. Oh my. I sincerely hope that among the 15k members, there are lurking employees of our security establishment and that they’ve cracked the anonymity of Telegram.

    Because either it’s a lot of nefarious propaganda by a certain foreign state, or it’s a yellow pages of the biggest wronguns in our country. It does seem to have been filled this afternoon with bot generated white noise, wrecking its usefulness for edl riot organisers.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,755
    moonshine said:

    Extraordinary to see people so vexed about Twitter/X, which is open algorithm. And say so little about Telegram.

    Have a friend currently overseas who lives by an asylum hotel, who is concerned things may spill to his locale. Checked the Telegram channel posted on the earlier thread. Oh my. I sincerely hope that among the 15k members, there are lurking employees of our security establishment and that they’ve cracked the anonymity of Telegram.

    Because either it’s a lot of nefarious propaganda by a certain foreign state, or it’s a yellow pages of the biggest wronguns in our country. It does seem to have been filled this afternoon with bot generated white noise, wrecking its usefulness for edl riot organisers.

    Goodness when you scroll back, there’s a specific death threat about a named public individual. I hope he’s been informed and currently somewhere safe. What an almighty mess.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,441
    edited August 5
    moonshine said:

    Extraordinary to see people so vexed about Twitter/X, which is open algorithm. And say so little about Telegram.

    Have a friend currently overseas who lives by an asylum hotel, who is concerned things may spill to his locale. Checked the Telegram channel posted on the earlier thread. Oh my. I sincerely hope that among the 15k members, there are lurking employees of our security establishment and that they’ve cracked the anonymity of Telegram.

    Because either it’s a lot of nefarious propaganda by a certain foreign state, or it’s a yellow pages of the biggest wronguns in our country. It does seem to have been filled this afternoon with bot generated white noise, wrecking its usefulness for edl riot organisers.

    Twitter/X matters because it is based in the civilised world, and is run by a narcissistic nasty liar.

    Telegram is Mos Eisley. There is little we can do about it.

    (Done)
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,036
    edited August 5
    Elementary rule 1 from my old copy of Strunk and White: "Form the the possessive singular of nouns by adding 's." That rule is followed with these exceptions, "ancient proper names ending in -es and -is . . "
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,755

    moonshine said:

    Extraordinary to see people so vexed about Twitter/X, which is open algorithm. And say so little about Telegram.

    Have a friend currently overseas who lives by an asylum hotel, who is concerned things may spill to his locale. Checked the Telegram channel posted on the earlier thread. Oh my. I sincerely hope that among the 15k members, there are lurking employees of our security establishment and that they’ve cracked the anonymity of Telegram.

    Because either it’s a lot of nefarious propaganda by a certain foreign state, or it’s a yellow pages of the biggest wronguns in our country. It does seem to have been filled this afternoon with bot generated white noise, wrecking its usefulness for edl riot organisers.

    Twitter/X matters because it is based in the civilised world, and is run by a narcissistic nasty liar.

    Telegram is Mos Eisley. There is little we can do about it.

    [deleted]
    You should consider deleting that last paragraph
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,441
    "Think it is safe to say that the munitions storage area at Morozovsk air base had a bad time after the Ukrainian OWA drone strike."

    https://x.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1820462091863777767
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,986
    This velodrome looks really quick. More records please!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,441
    edited August 5
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Extraordinary to see people so vexed about Twitter/X, which is open algorithm. And say so little about Telegram.

    Have a friend currently overseas who lives by an asylum hotel, who is concerned things may spill to his locale. Checked the Telegram channel posted on the earlier thread. Oh my. I sincerely hope that among the 15k members, there are lurking employees of our security establishment and that they’ve cracked the anonymity of Telegram.

    Because either it’s a lot of nefarious propaganda by a certain foreign state, or it’s a yellow pages of the biggest wronguns in our country. It does seem to have been filled this afternoon with bot generated white noise, wrecking its usefulness for edl riot organisers.

    Twitter/X matters because it is based in the civilised world, and is run by a narcissistic nasty liar.

    Telegram is Mos Eisley. There is little we can do about it.

    [deleted]
    You should consider deleting that last paragraph
    Have done, but your reasoning? It was an invented location.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    edited August 5

    Call me Mr Thicky but I can't get my head round Team Harris. Her name is Kamala just as Johnson's name was Boris.

    Don’t tell anybody but I am having a bit of a crisis.

    I misused an apostrophe at work and well everyone is having fun that the Grammar Nazi has been hoist by his own petard.

    I was like should be Harris’s or Harris’ and I’ve lost faith in myself and thought feck it, Team Harris will do.
    I would use Harris' team, however I am fairly sure that is incorrect and it should be Harris's team.

    A teacher in the 1970s had a trick to remember when to use an apostrophe before a possessive noun. He suggested the apostrophe allowed "his" to be shortened (irrespective of gender) so "Peter his car" would be shortened to "Peter's car". Equally "Jane his car" would be shortened to "Jane's car". So under that rule "Harris his team's" would be shortened to "Harris's team".

    Well, it's generally worked for me.
    F*** me! Autocorrect has just f***** up and apostrophe in my apostrophe lesson! (Harris his team's????)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,672

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    These are in the first of a series of steps we are taking to protect PB.

    I have my own views on this issue which I will wait until calm has been restored before posting.

    Suffice to say I'm entirely unimpressed, as I am unsurprised, by the equally unimaginative, sluggish, and autocratic response by Starmer.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    "Team Harris" is a good choice. In American elections above the very local level, teams are necessary, and give voters some idea how well a candidate might manage something larger.

    (Incidentally, one of the defects in Kamala Harris's career is the high staff turnover while she was VP. Dunno any more about it than that, but I think it does call for an explanation.)

    Harris is a demanding boss. Which more Americans are likely to consider a plus instead of a minus.

    Speaking of "high staff turnover" what about Donald Trump's while he was POTUS?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,755

    "Think it is safe to say that the munitions storage area at Morozovsk air base had a bad time after the Ukrainian OWA drone strike."

    https://x.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1820462091863777767

    Watched a video earlier analysing Russian equipment replacement rate. S400 systems perhaps halved, at recent rates becomes quite desperate for Russia within a few months. Tanks they have another 6-12mths. Armoured vehicles already desperate and resorting to non armoured ATVs.

    Does make you think that Russia will sue for peace shortly after the U.S. election whoever is the winner.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    These are in the first of a series of steps we are taking to protect PB.

    I have my own views on this issue which I will wait until calm has been restored before posting.

    Suffice to say I'm entirely unimpressed, as I am unsurprised, by the equally unimaginative, sluggish, and autocratic response by Starmer.
    Were you not impressed by how Dave dealt with the knobheads in 2011? Strikes me Starmer is going along with Dave's textbook.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    These are in the first of a series of steps we are taking to protect PB.

    I have my own views on this issue which I will wait until calm has been restored before posting.

    Suffice to say I'm entirely unimpressed, as I am unsurprised, by the equally unimaginative, sluggish, and autocratic response by Starmer.
    It's a debate for another time but reality is there is a rather fixed rulebook for how to handle this sort of event.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,672
    Starmer out in one term please.

    Less than a month in and already clear they're going to be terrible- in every respect.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,755

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Extraordinary to see people so vexed about Twitter/X, which is open algorithm. And say so little about Telegram.

    Have a friend currently overseas who lives by an asylum hotel, who is concerned things may spill to his locale. Checked the Telegram channel posted on the earlier thread. Oh my. I sincerely hope that among the 15k members, there are lurking employees of our security establishment and that they’ve cracked the anonymity of Telegram.

    Because either it’s a lot of nefarious propaganda by a certain foreign state, or it’s a yellow pages of the biggest wronguns in our country. It does seem to have been filled this afternoon with bot generated white noise, wrecking its usefulness for edl riot organisers.

    Twitter/X matters because it is based in the civilised world, and is run by a narcissistic nasty liar.

    Telegram is Mos Eisley. There is little we can do about it.

    [deleted]
    You should consider deleting that last paragraph
    Have done, but your reasoning? It was an invented location.
    It’s a good idea and probably one in use, don’t want any chance of tipping off the knuckle draggers
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,312

    Starmer out in one term please.

    Less than a month in and already clear they're going to be terrible- in every respect.

    You seem to have forgotten the absolute shambles of the last 5 years very quickly...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888

    Starmer out in one term please.

    Less than a month in and already clear they're going to be terrible- in every respect.

    Be careful for what you wish. There is no guarantee the Tories are returned should Starmer fail. Of course if you are comfortable with Prime Minister Farage, or Prime Minister Yaxley-Lennon, you'll be fine.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    LOADED
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,894

    Starmer out in one term please.

    Less than a month in and already clear they're going to be terrible- in every respect.

    I'd quite like BF to list a Starmer exit market.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,441
    Hmmm...

    The Italian boxer who ignited the controversy over the ALgerian and Thai boxers at the Olympics is getting a $50,000 payout.

    From the Russian IBA.

    https://www.reuters.com/sports/olympics/boxing-iba-award-prize-money-italys-carini-despite-loss-algerias-khelif-2024-08-02/

    This whole thing has been Russian shit-stirring.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    Leon said:

    LOADED

    Yes, you normally are!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    These are in the first of a series of steps we are taking to protect PB.

    I have my own views on this issue which I will wait until calm has been restored before posting.

    Suffice to say I'm entirely unimpressed, as I am unsurprised, by the equally unimaginative, sluggish, and autocratic response by Starmer.
    Very well put. My views entirely
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,672

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    These are in the first of a series of steps we are taking to protect PB.

    I have my own views on this issue which I will wait until calm has been restored before posting.

    Suffice to say I'm entirely unimpressed, as I am unsurprised, by the equally unimaginative, sluggish, and autocratic response by Starmer.
    Were you not impressed by how Dave dealt with the knobheads in 2011? Strikes me Starmer is going along with Dave's textbook.
    Strikes you, but he's not.

    Firstly, Dave had a got a grip by now - Starmer has not, and it's not clear he's anywhere close - and nor did he go full finger-in-the-ears and cryptoauthoritarian.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Seattle Times - Secretaries of state urge Musk to fix AI chatbot spreading false election info

    Five secretaries of state plan to send an open letter to billionaire Elon Musk on Monday, urging him to “immediately implement changes” to X’s AI chatbot Grok, after it shared with millions of users false information suggesting that Kamala Harris was not eligible to appear on the 2024 presidential ballot.

    The letter, spearheaded by Minnesota Secretary of State Steve Simon and signed by his counterparts Al Schmidt of Pennsylvania, Steve Hobbs of Washington, Jocelyn Benson of Michigan and Maggie Toulouse Oliver of New Mexico, urges Musk to “immediately implement changes to X’s AI search assistant, Grok, to ensure voters have accurate information in this critical election year.”

    Within hours of President Biden’s announcement that he was suspending his presidential campaign on July 21, “false information on ballot deadlines produced by Grok was shared on multiple social media platforms,” the secretaries wrote.

    The secretaries cited a post from Grok that circulated after Biden stepped out of the race: “The ballot deadline has passed for several states for the 2024 election,” the post read, naming nine states: Alabama, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, New Mexico, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas and Washington.

    Had the deadlines passed in those states, the vice president would not have been able to replace Biden on the ballot. But the information was false. In all nine states, the ballot deadlines have not passed and upcoming ballot deadlines allow for changes to candidates. . . .

    Musk launched Grok last year as an anti-“woke” chatbot, professing to be frustrated by what he says is the liberal bias of ChatGPT. In contrast to AI tools built by OpenAI, Microsoft and Google, which are trained to carefully navigate controversial topics, Musk said he wanted Grok to be unfiltered and “answer spicy questions that are rejected by most other AI systems.”

    The secretaries of state, who are the chief elections officers in their states, are objecting not to Grok’s tone but its factual inaccuracies and the sluggishness of the company’s move to correct bad information. . . .

    SSI - Fanboys/bot of Comrade Musko please explain?
  • KnightOutKnightOut Posts: 145
    I still can't read the name 'Kamala' without thinking of the late wrestler.

    Weirdly his surname was also Harris. And despite being 'the Ugandan giant' was born in Mississippi.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Starmer ia going to end up more hated than Boris and more reviled than Sunak and possibly more laughable than Truss

    All their initial instincts are wrong. They’ve already shown they have no ideas and those ideas they have are fucking contemptibly stupid. Starmer is an over promoted dork and reeves is probably worse
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    LOADED

    Yes, you normally are!
    All shall be explained
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    These are in the first of a series of steps we are taking to protect PB.

    I have my own views on this issue which I will wait until calm has been restored before posting.

    Suffice to say I'm entirely unimpressed, as I am unsurprised, by the equally unimaginative, sluggish, and autocratic response by Starmer.
    In Starmer’s defence this is different to 2011.

    Mostly due to it being more organised on social media and the plans for mass murder that is being planned.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Seattle Times - Secretaries of state urge Musk to fix AI chatbot spreading false election info

    Five secretaries of state plan to send an open letter to billionaire Elon Musk on Monday, urging him to “immediately implement changes” to X’s AI chatbot Grok, after it shared with millions of users false information suggesting that Kamala Harris was not eligible to appear on the 2024 presidential ballot.

    The letter, spearheaded by Minnesota Secretary of State Steve Simon and signed by his counterparts Al Schmidt of Pennsylvania, Steve Hobbs of Washington, Jocelyn Benson of Michigan and Maggie Toulouse Oliver of New Mexico, urges Musk to “immediately implement changes to X’s AI search assistant, Grok, to ensure voters have accurate information in this critical election year.”

    Within hours of President Biden’s announcement that he was suspending his presidential campaign on July 21, “false information on ballot deadlines produced by Grok was shared on multiple social media platforms,” the secretaries wrote.

    The secretaries cited a post from Grok that circulated after Biden stepped out of the race: “The ballot deadline has passed for several states for the 2024 election,” the post read, naming nine states: Alabama, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, New Mexico, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas and Washington.

    Had the deadlines passed in those states, the vice president would not have been able to replace Biden on the ballot. But the information was false. In all nine states, the ballot deadlines have not passed and upcoming ballot deadlines allow for changes to candidates. . . .

    Musk launched Grok last year as an anti-“woke” chatbot, professing to be frustrated by what he says is the liberal bias of ChatGPT. In contrast to AI tools built by OpenAI, Microsoft and Google, which are trained to carefully navigate controversial topics, Musk said he wanted Grok to be unfiltered and “answer spicy questions that are rejected by most other AI systems.”

    The secretaries of state, who are the chief elections officers in their states, are objecting not to Grok’s tone but its factual inaccuracies and the sluggishness of the company’s move to correct bad information. . . .

    SSI - Fanboys/bot of Comrade Musko please explain?

    Elon Musk is clearly interfering in the US election:
    - He suspended an account of a group raising millions for Harris through the platform
    - He prevented users following the Harris campaign on the day of launch
    - He has a chatbot saying she is not on the ballot
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,986
    Awfully close to the world record for the GB men’s four cyclists, in the qualifying event.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,808

    Starmer out in one term please.

    Less than a month in and already clear they're going to be terrible- in every respect.

    I'll be disappointed if he lasts the full term. The Tories just need to get it together and let 'events dear boy events' take their course.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,259
    *Able*, that ofcourse should have said below.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,894
    WillG said:

    Seattle Times - Secretaries of state urge Musk to fix AI chatbot spreading false election info

    Five secretaries of state plan to send an open letter to billionaire Elon Musk on Monday, urging him to “immediately implement changes” to X’s AI chatbot Grok, after it shared with millions of users false information suggesting that Kamala Harris was not eligible to appear on the 2024 presidential ballot.

    The letter, spearheaded by Minnesota Secretary of State Steve Simon and signed by his counterparts Al Schmidt of Pennsylvania, Steve Hobbs of Washington, Jocelyn Benson of Michigan and Maggie Toulouse Oliver of New Mexico, urges Musk to “immediately implement changes to X’s AI search assistant, Grok, to ensure voters have accurate information in this critical election year.”

    Within hours of President Biden’s announcement that he was suspending his presidential campaign on July 21, “false information on ballot deadlines produced by Grok was shared on multiple social media platforms,” the secretaries wrote.

    The secretaries cited a post from Grok that circulated after Biden stepped out of the race: “The ballot deadline has passed for several states for the 2024 election,” the post read, naming nine states: Alabama, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, New Mexico, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas and Washington.

    Had the deadlines passed in those states, the vice president would not have been able to replace Biden on the ballot. But the information was false. In all nine states, the ballot deadlines have not passed and upcoming ballot deadlines allow for changes to candidates. . . .

    Musk launched Grok last year as an anti-“woke” chatbot, professing to be frustrated by what he says is the liberal bias of ChatGPT. In contrast to AI tools built by OpenAI, Microsoft and Google, which are trained to carefully navigate controversial topics, Musk said he wanted Grok to be unfiltered and “answer spicy questions that are rejected by most other AI systems.”

    The secretaries of state, who are the chief elections officers in their states, are objecting not to Grok’s tone but its factual inaccuracies and the sluggishness of the company’s move to correct bad information. . . .

    SSI - Fanboys/bot of Comrade Musko please explain?

    Elon Musk is clearly interfering in the US election:
    - He suspended an account of a group raising millions for Harris through the platform
    - He prevented users following the Harris campaign on the day of launch
    - He has a chatbot saying she is not on the ballot
    Is this really true? It doesn't seem to fit in with his normal style.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Leon said:

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    These are in the first of a series of steps we are taking to protect PB.

    I have my own views on this issue which I will wait until calm has been restored before posting.

    Suffice to say I'm entirely unimpressed, as I am unsurprised, by the equally unimaginative, sluggish, and autocratic response by Starmer.
    Very well put. My views entirely
    Can I ask what counts as "glorifying/condoning/excusing" the riots? Because I was accused of doing this yesterday, when I did nothing of the sort. When I asked for a quotation of where I did this, no-one could provide anything.

    - Is providing evidence of inconsistent policing between different groups "excusing" the riots?
    - Is discussing the contributors to ethnic tensions in the relevant towns "condoning" the riots?
    - Is discussing previous government amd media failures that have led to distrust in authorities "glorifying" the riots?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376

    Starmer. I think, has had the best start of any PM since Cameron.

    Cameron however quickly showed himself to be arrogant and entitled, whereas Starrmer is surprising on the upside, so far.

    He seens, to me, surprisingly wable to carry off a number of modes; serious, empathic, hopeful, or stern. The first signs for his premiership, I would say, look pretty hopeful.

    Or
    Leon said:

    Starmer ia going to end up more hated than Boris and more reviled than Sunak and possibly more laughable than Truss

    All their initial instincts are wrong. They’ve already shown they have no ideas and those ideas they have are fucking contemptibly stupid. Starmer is an over promoted dork and reeves is probably worse

    🤷‍♂️
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,943
    Leon said:

    Starmer ia going to end up more hated than Boris and more reviled than Sunak and possibly more laughable than Truss

    All their initial instincts are wrong. They’ve already shown they have no ideas and those ideas they have are fucking contemptibly stupid. Starmer is an over promoted dork and reeves is probably worse

    There is certainly a risk of this. There is an underclass in the UK, spread across many towns and cities where they live in places long abandoned by wider society and the public's concern. No matter how hard they work - if they can find work - they can never get by and never escape.

    There is a specific immediate need to do something about these riots, but there is also a longer-term need to address the grinding poverty which is the backdrop for all of these places currently ablaze.

    Labour's challenge is not to shat the bed as spectacularly as the Tories did. You can't offer hope then deliver more failure. But if we get a few years in and there is no change and no hope, then I can see how Farage and even further to the right populists can clean up. Offering neo-fascist solutions to problems that nobody wants to address.

    I have no problem debating the whys and wherefores of migration. But if we want to significantly reduce it we will need a significant restructure of the economy to cover both the costs of labour and the huge investment needed into these places to pull them and the underclass out of grinding poverty. Farage et al offer crayon economics as to how they could fund such things, but in the real world it is much harder.

    Ultimately, the cost of action may be less than the cost of inaction. Tories endlessly say "how will we pay for x" even though we always find the higher cost of y when we say that x is unaffordable and suffer y as a direct consequence.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    Hmmm...

    The Italian boxer who ignited the controversy over the ALgerian and Thai boxers at the Olympics is getting a $50,000 payout.

    From the Russian IBA.

    https://www.reuters.com/sports/olympics/boxing-iba-award-prize-money-italys-carini-despite-loss-algerias-khelif-2024-08-02/

    This whole thing has been Russian shit-stirring.

    Are you alleging that Russia deliberately arranged for Algeria to enter an intersex boxer?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Omnium said:

    WillG said:

    Seattle Times - Secretaries of state urge Musk to fix AI chatbot spreading false election info

    Five secretaries of state plan to send an open letter to billionaire Elon Musk on Monday, urging him to “immediately implement changes” to X’s AI chatbot Grok, after it shared with millions of users false information suggesting that Kamala Harris was not eligible to appear on the 2024 presidential ballot.

    The letter, spearheaded by Minnesota Secretary of State Steve Simon and signed by his counterparts Al Schmidt of Pennsylvania, Steve Hobbs of Washington, Jocelyn Benson of Michigan and Maggie Toulouse Oliver of New Mexico, urges Musk to “immediately implement changes to X’s AI search assistant, Grok, to ensure voters have accurate information in this critical election year.”

    Within hours of President Biden’s announcement that he was suspending his presidential campaign on July 21, “false information on ballot deadlines produced by Grok was shared on multiple social media platforms,” the secretaries wrote.

    The secretaries cited a post from Grok that circulated after Biden stepped out of the race: “The ballot deadline has passed for several states for the 2024 election,” the post read, naming nine states: Alabama, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, New Mexico, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas and Washington.

    Had the deadlines passed in those states, the vice president would not have been able to replace Biden on the ballot. But the information was false. In all nine states, the ballot deadlines have not passed and upcoming ballot deadlines allow for changes to candidates. . . .

    Musk launched Grok last year as an anti-“woke” chatbot, professing to be frustrated by what he says is the liberal bias of ChatGPT. In contrast to AI tools built by OpenAI, Microsoft and Google, which are trained to carefully navigate controversial topics, Musk said he wanted Grok to be unfiltered and “answer spicy questions that are rejected by most other AI systems.”

    The secretaries of state, who are the chief elections officers in their states, are objecting not to Grok’s tone but its factual inaccuracies and the sluggishness of the company’s move to correct bad information. . . .

    SSI - Fanboys/bot of Comrade Musko please explain?

    Elon Musk is clearly interfering in the US election:
    - He suspended an account of a group raising millions for Harris through the platform
    - He prevented users following the Harris campaign on the day of launch
    - He has a chatbot saying she is not on the ballot
    Is this really true? It doesn't seem to fit in with his normal style.
    What would count as his normal style though? It seems to be forwarding on whatever he's just read that confirms something he already believes, and being a snowflake about criticism. Whether that extends to more serious attempts to interfere with things I do not know.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,441
    moonshine said:

    "Think it is safe to say that the munitions storage area at Morozovsk air base had a bad time after the Ukrainian OWA drone strike."

    https://x.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1820462091863777767

    Watched a video earlier analysing Russian equipment replacement rate. S400 systems perhaps halved, at recent rates becomes quite desperate for Russia within a few months. Tanks they have another 6-12mths. Armoured vehicles already desperate and resorting to non armoured ATVs.

    Does make you think that Russia will sue for peace shortly after the U.S. election whoever is the winner.
    Yet Russia are making some (relatively) serious advances atm (*). The dynamics of this are horribly fascinating, and show how wars are won by international politics as much as force of arms.

    Incidentally, my tinfoil-hat view is that much of our border 'crisis' is being generated directly and/or indirectly by Russia, as they are doing at the Polish, Finnish and Estonian borders. Probably America's as well.

    (*) In the General Melchett map-scale sense of advance.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    GIN1138 said:


    Starmer. I think, has had the best start of any PM since Cameron.

    Cameron however quickly showed himself to be arrogant and entitled, whereas Starrmer is surprising on the upside, so far.

    He seens, to me, surprisingly wable to carry off a number of modes; serious, empathic, hopeful, or stern. The first signs for his premiership, I would say, look pretty hopeful.

    Or
    Leon said:

    Starmer ia going to end up more hated than Boris and more reviled than Sunak and possibly more laughable than Truss

    All their initial instincts are wrong. They’ve already shown they have no ideas and those ideas they have are fucking contemptibly stupid. Starmer is an over promoted dork and reeves is probably worse

    🤷‍♂️
    Youse pays your money, you make your choice.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    moonshine said:

    "Think it is safe to say that the munitions storage area at Morozovsk air base had a bad time after the Ukrainian OWA drone strike."

    https://x.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1820462091863777767

    Watched a video earlier analysing Russian equipment replacement rate. S400 systems perhaps halved, at recent rates becomes quite desperate for Russia within a few months. Tanks they have another 6-12mths. Armoured vehicles already desperate and resorting to non armoured ATVs.

    Does make you think that Russia will sue for peace shortly after the U.S. election whoever is the winner.
    Yet Russia are making some (relatively) serious advances atm (*). The dynamics of this are horribly fascinating, and show how wars are won by international politics as much as force of arms.

    Incidentally, my tinfoil-hat view is that much of our border 'crisis' is being generated directly and/or indirectly by Russia, as they are doing at the Polish, Finnish and Estonian borders. Probably America's as well.

    (*) In the General Melchett map-scale sense of advance.
    Assuming that this is true, do you favour the Polish/Finnish/Estonian approach of defending the border with force, or the Merkel approach of opening the border to try to show that we are not bothered?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,916
    GIN1138 said:


    Starmer. I think, has had the best start of any PM since Cameron.

    Cameron however quickly showed himself to be arrogant and entitled, whereas Starrmer is surprising on the upside, so far.

    He seens, to me, surprisingly wable to carry off a number of modes; serious, empathic, hopeful, or stern. The first signs for his premiership, I would say, look pretty hopeful.

    Or
    Leon said:

    Starmer ia going to end up more hated than Boris and more reviled than Sunak and possibly more laughable than Truss

    All their initial instincts are wrong. They’ve already shown they have no ideas and those ideas they have are fucking contemptibly stupid. Starmer is an over promoted dork and reeves is probably worse

    🤷‍♂️
    The jury’s out, I think!
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,894
    kle4 said:

    Omnium said:

    WillG said:

    Seattle Times - Secretaries of state urge Musk to fix AI chatbot spreading false election info

    Five secretaries of state plan to send an open letter to billionaire Elon Musk on Monday, urging him to “immediately implement changes” to X’s AI chatbot Grok, after it shared with millions of users false information suggesting that Kamala Harris was not eligible to appear on the 2024 presidential ballot.

    The letter, spearheaded by Minnesota Secretary of State Steve Simon and signed by his counterparts Al Schmidt of Pennsylvania, Steve Hobbs of Washington, Jocelyn Benson of Michigan and Maggie Toulouse Oliver of New Mexico, urges Musk to “immediately implement changes to X’s AI search assistant, Grok, to ensure voters have accurate information in this critical election year.”

    Within hours of President Biden’s announcement that he was suspending his presidential campaign on July 21, “false information on ballot deadlines produced by Grok was shared on multiple social media platforms,” the secretaries wrote.

    The secretaries cited a post from Grok that circulated after Biden stepped out of the race: “The ballot deadline has passed for several states for the 2024 election,” the post read, naming nine states: Alabama, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, New Mexico, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas and Washington.

    Had the deadlines passed in those states, the vice president would not have been able to replace Biden on the ballot. But the information was false. In all nine states, the ballot deadlines have not passed and upcoming ballot deadlines allow for changes to candidates. . . .

    Musk launched Grok last year as an anti-“woke” chatbot, professing to be frustrated by what he says is the liberal bias of ChatGPT. In contrast to AI tools built by OpenAI, Microsoft and Google, which are trained to carefully navigate controversial topics, Musk said he wanted Grok to be unfiltered and “answer spicy questions that are rejected by most other AI systems.”

    The secretaries of state, who are the chief elections officers in their states, are objecting not to Grok’s tone but its factual inaccuracies and the sluggishness of the company’s move to correct bad information. . . .

    SSI - Fanboys/bot of Comrade Musko please explain?

    Elon Musk is clearly interfering in the US election:
    - He suspended an account of a group raising millions for Harris through the platform
    - He prevented users following the Harris campaign on the day of launch
    - He has a chatbot saying she is not on the ballot
    Is this really true? It doesn't seem to fit in with his normal style.
    What would count as his normal style though? It seems to be forwarding on whatever he's just read that confirms something he already believes, and being a snowflake about criticism. Whether that extends to more serious attempts to interfere with things I do not know.
    Well it's just as you say, and I don't believe that WillG is summarising the actions of the same man.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    These are in the first of a series of steps we are taking to protect PB.

    I have my own views on this issue which I will wait until calm has been restored before posting.

    Suffice to say I'm entirely unimpressed, as I am unsurprised, by the equally unimaginative, sluggish, and autocratic response by Starmer.
    Very well put. My views entirely
    Can I ask what counts as "glorifying/condoning/excusing" the riots? Because I was accused of doing this yesterday, when I did nothing of the sort. When I asked for a quotation of where I did this, no-one could provide anything.

    - Is providing evidence of inconsistent policing between different groups "excusing" the riots?
    - Is discussing the contributors to ethnic tensions in the relevant towns "condoning" the riots?
    - Is discussing previous government amd media failures that have led to distrust in authorities "glorifying" the riots?
    I can maybe help.

    In response to somebody saying it was really kicking off in Rotherham you responded (and this is close to a quote) ...

    "Now let me see, is there anything that might have happened in Rotherham recently that might explain that?"

    (not to pick on you, there were other posters in similar mode, but just to try and illustrate what I think is being got at here)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,441

    Hmmm...

    The Italian boxer who ignited the controversy over the ALgerian and Thai boxers at the Olympics is getting a $50,000 payout.

    From the Russian IBA.

    https://www.reuters.com/sports/olympics/boxing-iba-award-prize-money-italys-carini-despite-loss-algerias-khelif-2024-08-02/

    This whole thing has been Russian shit-stirring.

    Are you alleging that Russia deliberately arranged for Algeria to enter an intersex boxer?
    The only reasons we think she may be intersex are:
    *) She looks a little male; depending on the photos.
    *) The IBA said she was intersex.

    Do you know of other reasons?

    The timing of the IBA's announcement of the rest 'results' is also suspicious; *after* the competition in which she beat a Russian boxer. As is their refusal to given even details of the tests performed.

    There's the awful possibility that she is fully female, without DSD/Intersex, and has been placed in this hideous situation. even if she is DSD/intersex, the amount of hate displayed towards her has been sad to behold. And a lot of people would never believe it if 1,001 tests showed she was female.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,161
    BBC:

    'Josh Kellett, 29, admitted violent disorder following the unrest in Sunderland on Friday.

    The court heard he was wearing a balaclava but was identified by his "distinctive tattoos".'

    Top tip: Wear a long sleeved shirt.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,808
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    These are in the first of a series of steps we are taking to protect PB.

    I have my own views on this issue which I will wait until calm has been restored before posting.

    Suffice to say I'm entirely unimpressed, as I am unsurprised, by the equally unimaginative, sluggish, and autocratic response by Starmer.
    Very well put. My views entirely
    Can I ask what counts as "glorifying/condoning/excusing" the riots? Because I was accused of doing this yesterday, when I did nothing of the sort. When I asked for a quotation of where I did this, no-one could provide anything.

    - Is providing evidence of inconsistent policing between different groups "excusing" the riots?
    - Is discussing the contributors to ethnic tensions in the relevant towns "condoning" the riots?
    - Is discussing previous government amd media failures that have led to distrust in authorities "glorifying" the riots?
    It's good to be passionate but I suggest we be nice to TSE and avoid even the perception of an endorsement whilst the situation calms down.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,144

    Starmer out in one term please.

    Less than a month in and already clear they're going to be terrible- in every respect.

    I'll be disappointed if he lasts the full term. The Tories just need to get it together and let 'events dear boy events' take their course.
    “just”….. !

    Three of you, all clutching the same tiny straw.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    These are in the first of a series of steps we are taking to protect PB.

    I have my own views on this issue which I will wait until calm has been restored before posting.

    Suffice to say I'm entirely unimpressed, as I am unsurprised, by the equally unimaginative, sluggish, and autocratic response by Starmer.
    Very well put. My views entirely
    Can I ask what counts as "glorifying/condoning/excusing" the riots? Because I was accused of doing this yesterday, when I did nothing of the sort. When I asked for a quotation of where I did this, no-one could provide anything.

    - Is providing evidence of inconsistent policing between different groups "excusing" the riots?
    - Is discussing the contributors to ethnic tensions in the relevant towns "condoning" the riots?
    - Is discussing previous government amd media failures that have led to distrust in authorities "glorifying" the riots?
    It's good to be passionate but I suggest we be nice to TSE and avoid even the perception of an endorsement whilst the situation calms down.
    You don’t have to be nice to me per se, be nice to OGH and Robert, I really don’t want them to have to deal with the aggravation of being responsible for what some people post on here.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Interesting development in Congress. The Democrats are proposing a No Kings bill which will restore the Constitution to what it was before the SC wreaked it on behalf of Donald Trump. There is an exceptions provision in the Constitution which give Congress the right to limit the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court and the criminal culpability of the President could fall within it.

    Article I, Section 8, Clause 18:

    [The Congress shall have Power . . . ] To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

    Such a bill can't pass if the Republicans try to talk it out but doing so would be a huge embarrassment to them in this election year.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,943

    BBC:

    'Josh Kellett, 29, admitted violent disorder following the unrest in Sunderland on Friday.

    The court heard he was wearing a balaclava but was identified by his "distinctive tattoos".'

    Top tip: Wear a long sleeved shirt.

    I read that several defendants were in tears as they they were remanded in custody. In jail, awaiting a chunky sentence. Having felt invincible as they rioted.

    You do have to wonder just how dumb some people are.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,755

    moonshine said:

    "Think it is safe to say that the munitions storage area at Morozovsk air base had a bad time after the Ukrainian OWA drone strike."

    https://x.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1820462091863777767

    Watched a video earlier analysing Russian equipment replacement rate. S400 systems perhaps halved, at recent rates becomes quite desperate for Russia within a few months. Tanks they have another 6-12mths. Armoured vehicles already desperate and resorting to non armoured ATVs.

    Does make you think that Russia will sue for peace shortly after the U.S. election whoever is the winner.
    Yet Russia are making some (relatively) serious advances atm (*). The dynamics of this are horribly fascinating, and show how wars are won by international politics as much as force of arms.

    Incidentally, my tinfoil-hat view is that much of our border 'crisis' is being generated directly and/or indirectly by Russia, as they are doing at the Polish, Finnish and Estonian borders. Probably America's as well.

    (*) In the General Melchett map-scale sense of advance.
    There’s no new strategic gains. The one thing is the completion of the railway to Mariupol, which cements the landbridge to crimea and will be much harder to disrupt than Kerch. But overall, if the Dems retain power, I wouldn’t be surprised to see something resembling a collapse by spring 2026
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    These are in the first of a series of steps we are taking to protect PB.

    I have my own views on this issue which I will wait until calm has been restored before posting.

    Suffice to say I'm entirely unimpressed, as I am unsurprised, by the equally unimaginative, sluggish, and autocratic response by Starmer.
    Very well put. My views entirely
    Can I ask what counts as "glorifying/condoning/excusing" the riots? Because I was accused of doing this yesterday, when I did nothing of the sort. When I asked for a quotation of where I did this, no-one could provide anything.

    - Is providing evidence of inconsistent policing between different groups "excusing" the riots?
    - Is discussing the contributors to ethnic tensions in the relevant towns "condoning" the riots?
    - Is discussing previous government amd media failures that have led to distrust in authorities "glorifying" the riots?
    It's good to be passionate but I suggest we be nice to TSE and avoid even the perception of an endorsement whilst the situation calms down.
    You don’t have to be nice to me per se
    Challenge accepted.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    There’s a lot of people getting remanded, as per 2011.

    Liverpool riots: First group of people involved in riots appear in court - with one swearing as he was taken away

    Hundreds of people have been arrested across the country. Here are the details of some of their court appearances today.

    https://news.sky.com/story/liverpool-riots-people-appear-in-court-the-youngest-just-14-and-the-oldest-a-69-year-old-who-turned-up-with-wooden-bat-13191287
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958

    BBC:

    'Josh Kellett, 29, admitted violent disorder following the unrest in Sunderland on Friday.

    The court heard he was wearing a balaclava but was identified by his "distinctive tattoos".'

    Top tip: Wear a long sleeved shirt.

    I read that several defendants were in tears as they they were remanded in custody. In jail, awaiting a chunky sentence. Having felt invincible as they rioted.

    You do have to wonder just how dumb some people are.
    This fellow is quite dumb

    Adam Wharton and Ellis Wharton - Liverpool

    Two brothers appeared at Liverpool Magistrates' Court accused of crimes relating to a library which was set on fire during the riots.

    28-year-old Adam Wharton appeared first, admitting burglary with intent to steal from the Spellow Lane Library Hub, which suffered severe damage to the ground floor due to the fire.

    The library was opened last year to provide support for one of the most deprived communities in the country.

    Wharton, who has 16 previous convictions for 26 offences, including robbery and burglary, stood in the dock at Liverpool Magistrates' Court wearing a grey, prison-issue tracksuit.

    As he left the dock, Wharton said: "Nice one, shitty arse judge man."

    His younger brother Ellis Wharton, 22, admitted trying to steal a computer screen from the library - but denied assaulting a police officer.


  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    DavidL said:

    Interesting development in Congress. The Democrats are proposing a No Kings bill which will restore the Constitution to what it was before the SC wreaked it on behalf of Donald Trump. There is an exceptions provision in the Constitution which give Congress the right to limit the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court and the criminal culpability of the President could fall within it.

    Article I, Section 8, Clause 18:

    [The Congress shall have Power . . . ] To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

    Such a bill can't pass if the Republicans try to talk it out but doing so would be a huge embarrassment to them in this election year.

    This election year they have Trump.

    Who doesn't do embarrassment.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    BBC:

    'Josh Kellett, 29, admitted violent disorder following the unrest in Sunderland on Friday.

    The court heard he was wearing a balaclava but was identified by his "distinctive tattoos".'

    Top tip: Wear a long sleeved shirt.

    I read that several defendants were in tears as they they were remanded in custody. In jail, awaiting a chunky sentence. Having felt invincible as they rioted.

    You do have to wonder just how dumb some people are.
    It's the same every time there's a riot. Probably a good thing showing some participants have remorse over their actions (or at least regret over getting punished, which is not as good but better than nothing). People are so easily caught up, there'll be a lot of teary 'This person was a model citizen(until now)' moments.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,441

    moonshine said:

    "Think it is safe to say that the munitions storage area at Morozovsk air base had a bad time after the Ukrainian OWA drone strike."

    https://x.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1820462091863777767

    Watched a video earlier analysing Russian equipment replacement rate. S400 systems perhaps halved, at recent rates becomes quite desperate for Russia within a few months. Tanks they have another 6-12mths. Armoured vehicles already desperate and resorting to non armoured ATVs.

    Does make you think that Russia will sue for peace shortly after the U.S. election whoever is the winner.
    Yet Russia are making some (relatively) serious advances atm (*). The dynamics of this are horribly fascinating, and show how wars are won by international politics as much as force of arms.

    Incidentally, my tinfoil-hat view is that much of our border 'crisis' is being generated directly and/or indirectly by Russia, as they are doing at the Polish, Finnish and Estonian borders. Probably America's as well.

    (*) In the General Melchett map-scale sense of advance.
    Assuming that this is true, do you favour the Polish/Finnish/Estonian approach of defending the border with force, or the Merkel approach of opening the border to try to show that we are not bothered?
    They are not 'defending the border with force' in the way you make that sound. In fact, a Polish border guard was recently killed by a spear through the fence (presumably thrown).

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/polish-soldier-dies-after-being-stabbed-by-migrants-border-with-belarus-2024-06-06/

    As for the general point
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/23/estonia-accuses-russia-weaponising-immigration-europe-borders

    If Russia are doing it there, why do you think they wouldn't be directly or indirectly doing it at our border? Or the USA's?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    edited August 5
    "The [14 year old] was caught on CCTV footage with a firework in his hand but when arrested told officers: "I'm sorry, I wasn't firing them at you".

    The court heard he had no previous convictions and had never been in trouble with the police before.

    His lawyer, Iqbal Singh Kang..."

    Oh, the irony....
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,858
    edited August 5
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    These are in the first of a series of steps we are taking to protect PB.

    I have my own views on this issue which I will wait until calm has been restored before posting.

    Suffice to say I'm entirely unimpressed, as I am unsurprised, by the equally unimaginative, sluggish, and autocratic response by Starmer.
    Very well put. My views entirely
    Can I ask what counts as "glorifying/condoning/excusing" the riots? Because I was accused of doing this yesterday, when I did nothing of the sort. When I asked for a quotation of where I did this, no-one could provide anything.

    - Is providing evidence of inconsistent policing between different groups "excusing" the riots?
    - Is discussing the contributors to ethnic tensions in the relevant towns "condoning" the riots?
    - Is discussing previous government amd media failures that have led to distrust in authorities "glorifying" the riots?
    The history of riots for the last 40-50 years in the UK suggests there needs to be a two stage process. Firstly and obviously all right thinking people oppose absolutely the use of civil violence in these or any circumstances. This view has been consistently held by more or less everyone about NI, Brixton, Toxteth, the 2011 riots etc. It is held by me and I imagine every PB poster and reader. The law needs to take its course fully and rapidly.

    The next stage is exemplified by Lord Scarman's report following Brixton 1981. This stage reflects the general truth that riots, despite being undertaken by the most objectionable people imaginable are none the less the voice of the unheard.

    Matt Goodwin here is partly right. If the matter is totally ignored (which Labour will find tempting, and Tories dealt with by substitution activity) expect solutions to be hard:

    https://www.mattgoodwin.org/p/no-this-is-not-just-far-right-thuggery?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=858965&post_id=147334266&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=1mnpci&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114

    There’s a lot of people getting remanded, as per 2011.

    Liverpool riots: First group of people involved in riots appear in court - with one swearing as he was taken away

    Hundreds of people have been arrested across the country. Here are the details of some of their court appearances today.

    https://news.sky.com/story/liverpool-riots-people-appear-in-court-the-youngest-just-14-and-the-oldest-a-69-year-old-who-turned-up-with-wooden-bat-13191287

    Has to be very severe sentencing this week to try and discourage next weekend's planned riots.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,943
    kle4 said:

    BBC:

    'Josh Kellett, 29, admitted violent disorder following the unrest in Sunderland on Friday.

    The court heard he was wearing a balaclava but was identified by his "distinctive tattoos".'

    Top tip: Wear a long sleeved shirt.

    I read that several defendants were in tears as they they were remanded in custody. In jail, awaiting a chunky sentence. Having felt invincible as they rioted.

    You do have to wonder just how dumb some people are.
    It's the same every time there's a riot. Probably a good thing showing some participants have remorse over their actions (or at least regret over getting punished, which is not as good but better than nothing). People are so easily caught up, there'll be a lot of teary 'This person was a model citizen(until now)' moments.
    I have no doubt that some people were in "the wrong place at the wrong time". Wondered what was going on and ended up in the thick of it.

    But most? Naah. If you are part of a large crowd doing a mob and rob operation, if you are filming people doing that, or cheering them, if you brought your kids to watch then you really have to expect to face the consequences of being part of a riot.

    And then we have the more active people. The ones actively smashing and burning and assaulting and terrifying. Where what happened (Roma kids taken into custody, or British Christian man commits atrocity) is just the excuse for what you want to do - terror, mayhem, destruction.

    The dude in the balaclava. Who even owns a balaclava, never mind sticks one on before heading out the door. Come on mate, what did you expect would happen?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,943

    There’s a lot of people getting remanded, as per 2011.

    Liverpool riots: First group of people involved in riots appear in court - with one swearing as he was taken away

    Hundreds of people have been arrested across the country. Here are the details of some of their court appearances today.

    https://news.sky.com/story/liverpool-riots-people-appear-in-court-the-youngest-just-14-and-the-oldest-a-69-year-old-who-turned-up-with-wooden-bat-13191287

    Has to be very severe sentencing this week to try and discourage next weekend's planned riots.
    That can't happen. The Mags can't issue anything beyond moderate, and where its a wider more complex crime they will need to refer it to Big Court who won't be able to hear cases yet.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,441
    algarkirk said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Having taken legal advice.

    Anybody who seeks to glorify, excuse/condone etc the current riots will be banned from PB.

    Anybody who posts locations of upcoming disorder will meet a similar fate.

    These are in the first of a series of steps we are taking to protect PB.

    I have my own views on this issue which I will wait until calm has been restored before posting.

    Suffice to say I'm entirely unimpressed, as I am unsurprised, by the equally unimaginative, sluggish, and autocratic response by Starmer.
    Very well put. My views entirely
    Can I ask what counts as "glorifying/condoning/excusing" the riots? Because I was accused of doing this yesterday, when I did nothing of the sort. When I asked for a quotation of where I did this, no-one could provide anything.

    - Is providing evidence of inconsistent policing between different groups "excusing" the riots?
    - Is discussing the contributors to ethnic tensions in the relevant towns "condoning" the riots?
    - Is discussing previous government amd media failures that have led to distrust in authorities "glorifying" the riots?
    The history of riots for the last 40-50 years in the UK suggests there needs to be a two stage process. Firstly and obviously all right thinking people oppose absolutely the use of civil violence in these or any circumstances. This view has been consistently held by more or less everyone about NI, Brixton, Toxteth, the 2011 riots etc. It is held by me and I imagine every PB poster and reader. The law needs to take its course fully and rapidly.

    The next stage is exemplied by Lord Scarman's report following Brixton 1981. This stage reflects the general truth that riots, despite being undertaken by the most objectionable people imaginable are none the less the voice of the unheard.

    Matt Goodwin here is partly right. If the matter is totally ignored (which Labour will find tempting, and Tories dealt with by substitution activity) expect solutions to be hard:

    https://www.mattgoodwin.org/p/no-this-is-not-just-far-right-thuggery?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=858965&post_id=147334266&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=1mnpci&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email
    I went to school with Lord Scarman's grand-daughter. She is/was a very intelligent and thoughtful lass, and utterly down-to-earth. I bet she doesn't even remember me. :)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934

    BBC:

    'Josh Kellett, 29, admitted violent disorder following the unrest in Sunderland on Friday.

    The court heard he was wearing a balaclava but was identified by his "distinctive tattoos".'

    Top tip: Wear a long sleeved shirt.

    Sounds like there could be a Viz Riots Special Edition....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632

    Starmer. I think, has had the best start of any PM since Cameron.

    Cameron however quickly showed himself to be arrogant and entitled, whereas Starrmer is surprising on the upside, so far.

    He seens, to me, surprisingly wable to carry off a number of modes; serious, empathic, hopeful, or stern. The first signs for his premiership, I would say, look pretty hopeful.

    And his position is strong structurally with the new landscape forged by GE24. The Cons are squeezed by Reform on the Right and the LDs in the Centre. Labour otoh have no serious electoral threat to the Left and the LDs are all about encroaching yet further into Tory territory rather than taking seats from Labour.

    I make him around 1.7 to still be PM after the next GE. The big vulnerability is Growth. They've made that a massive deal but whether we get good growth or not is more to do with global macro factors, with events and random chance, than with anything that's in his power to do. So if he's unlucky on that the next election is losable.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    There’s a lot of people getting remanded, as per 2011.

    Liverpool riots: First group of people involved in riots appear in court - with one swearing as he was taken away

    Hundreds of people have been arrested across the country. Here are the details of some of their court appearances today.

    https://news.sky.com/story/liverpool-riots-people-appear-in-court-the-youngest-just-14-and-the-oldest-a-69-year-old-who-turned-up-with-wooden-bat-13191287

    Has to be very severe sentencing this week to try and discourage next weekend's planned riots.
    I'm not a believer in harsh setencing equalling deterence as a general policy, but when it comes to large scale public disorder I think it is essential. People need to believe they will get caught and severely punished or they will think it is just a lark.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Oui, mon freres

    Les Jeux Olympique. And the stade de France for the athletisme

    Well, the gazette did ask. So I had to go



    Sometimes I wonder about my job. All the free luxury travel to amazing places. Is it worth it? Is that a good way to spend your declining years when you could be a mildly left wing lawyer in a rainy British provincial city?

    But then I think Yes. Do it. Someone has to: let it be YOU
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,441
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    "Think it is safe to say that the munitions storage area at Morozovsk air base had a bad time after the Ukrainian OWA drone strike."

    https://x.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1820462091863777767

    Watched a video earlier analysing Russian equipment replacement rate. S400 systems perhaps halved, at recent rates becomes quite desperate for Russia within a few months. Tanks they have another 6-12mths. Armoured vehicles already desperate and resorting to non armoured ATVs.

    Does make you think that Russia will sue for peace shortly after the U.S. election whoever is the winner.
    Yet Russia are making some (relatively) serious advances atm (*). The dynamics of this are horribly fascinating, and show how wars are won by international politics as much as force of arms.

    Incidentally, my tinfoil-hat view is that much of our border 'crisis' is being generated directly and/or indirectly by Russia, as they are doing at the Polish, Finnish and Estonian borders. Probably America's as well.

    (*) In the General Melchett map-scale sense of advance.
    There’s no new strategic gains. The one thing is the completion of the railway to Mariupol, which cements the landbridge to crimea and will be much harder to disrupt than Kerch. But overall, if the Dems retain power, I wouldn’t be surprised to see something resembling a collapse by spring 2026
    Yes, they are currently tactical gains, not strategic. Which is why I referred to Melchett's map.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZT-wVnFn60

    I expect Putin's attitude to change *if* the Dems win in November. The question is whether she would have the inclination, or ability, to do more than Biden already has. But even a hamstrung Harris is better for Ukraine than a Trump.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    kle4 said:

    People need to believe they will get caught and severely punished or they will think it is just a lark.

    How many are going to post online that they "got away with it" shortly before the knock...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,441
    Leon said:

    Oui, mon freres

    Les Jeux Olympique. And the stade de France for the athletisme

    Well, the gazette did ask. So I had to go



    Sometimes I wonder about my job. All the free luxury travel to amazing places. Is it worth it? Is that a good way to spend your declining years when you could be a mildly left wing lawyer in a rainy British provincial city?

    But then I think Yes. Do it. Someone has to: let it be YOU

    I'm spending the summer with my son.

    I win. :)
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,894

    kle4 said:

    BBC:

    'Josh Kellett, 29, admitted violent disorder following the unrest in Sunderland on Friday.

    The court heard he was wearing a balaclava but was identified by his "distinctive tattoos".'

    Top tip: Wear a long sleeved shirt.

    I read that several defendants were in tears as they they were remanded in custody. In jail, awaiting a chunky sentence. Having felt invincible as they rioted.

    You do have to wonder just how dumb some people are.
    It's the same every time there's a riot. Probably a good thing showing some participants have remorse over their actions (or at least regret over getting punished, which is not as good but better than nothing). People are so easily caught up, there'll be a lot of teary 'This person was a model citizen(until now)' moments.
    I have no doubt that some people were in "the wrong place at the wrong time". Wondered what was going on and ended up in the thick of it.

    But most? Naah. If you are part of a large crowd doing a mob and rob operation, if you are filming people doing that, or cheering them, if you brought your kids to watch then you really have to expect to face the consequences of being part of a riot.

    And then we have the more active people. The ones actively smashing and burning and assaulting and terrifying. Where what happened (Roma kids taken into custody, or British Christian man commits atrocity) is just the excuse for what you want to do - terror, mayhem, destruction.

    The dude in the balaclava. Who even owns a balaclava, never mind sticks one on before heading out the door. Come on mate, what did you expect would happen?
    One or two people may have inadvertently become involved, but it seems unlikely. You have to be there, which is insane, and you have to call the police to pay attention to you - which is mad.

    Overall I'm quite keen that these people should be locked up forever. Deep dark dungeons. That may seem a little unfair, but I see no reason to be fair. (Obviously I support the legal process, but it doesn't hurt to spin out the alternative)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    DavidL said:

    Interesting development in Congress. The Democrats are proposing a No Kings bill which will restore the Constitution to what it was before the SC wreaked it on behalf of Donald Trump. There is an exceptions provision in the Constitution which give Congress the right to limit the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court and the criminal culpability of the President could fall within it.

    Article I, Section 8, Clause 18:

    [The Congress shall have Power . . . ] To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

    Such a bill can't pass if the Republicans try to talk it out but doing so would be a huge embarrassment to them in this election year.

    This election year they have Trump.

    Who doesn't do embarrassment.
    True but all of the House of Representatives and 1/3 of the Senate is also on the ticket. They are also proposing changes that will make the likes of Thomas and Alito subject to an ethics code, very possibly leading to their impeachment given their disgraceful behaviour.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,441
    Oh my f**king God:

    https://x.com/BoLoudon/status/1820483205184557207/photo/1

    The descent of America, in one picture...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    kle4 said:

    BBC:

    'Josh Kellett, 29, admitted violent disorder following the unrest in Sunderland on Friday.

    The court heard he was wearing a balaclava but was identified by his "distinctive tattoos".'

    Top tip: Wear a long sleeved shirt.

    I read that several defendants were in tears as they they were remanded in custody. In jail, awaiting a chunky sentence. Having felt invincible as they rioted.

    You do have to wonder just how dumb some people are.
    It's the same every time there's a riot. Probably a good thing showing some participants have remorse over their actions (or at least regret over getting punished, which is not as good but better than nothing). People are so easily caught up, there'll be a lot of teary 'This person was a model citizen(until now)' moments.
    I have no doubt that some people were in "the wrong place at the wrong time". Wondered what was going on and ended up in the thick of it.

    But most? Naah. If you are part of a large crowd doing a mob and rob operation, if you are filming people doing that, or cheering them, if you brought your kids to watch then you really have to expect to face the consequences of being part of a riot.

    And then we have the more active people. The ones actively smashing and burning and assaulting and terrifying. Where what happened (Roma kids taken into custody, or British Christian man commits atrocity) is just the excuse for what you want to do - terror, mayhem, destruction.

    The dude in the balaclava. Who even owns a balaclava, never mind sticks one on before heading out the door. Come on mate, what did you expect would happen?
    I've got one somewhere. I tend to use it when hillwalking in winter rather than when I am burning down shops though.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Ugh, ugh.

    England rugby's Twickenham home is to be renamed as the Allianz Stadium in a new sponsorship deal, say the Rugby Football Union.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/cd9dd2xyx2ko
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    Leon said:

    Oui, mon freres

    Les Jeux Olympique. And the stade de France for the athletisme

    Well, the gazette did ask. So I had to go

    Sometimes I wonder about my job. All the free luxury travel to amazing places. Is it worth it? Is that a good way to spend your declining years when you could be a mildly left wing lawyer in a rainy British provincial city?

    But then I think Yes. Do it. Someone has to: let it be YOU

    PB Leon 1962 to 20??

    He travelled the world
    He liked his food
    He fomented racial tension on the internet
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632

    Oh my f**king God:

    https://x.com/BoLoudon/status/1820483205184557207/photo/1

    The descent of America, in one picture...

    And also why Trump is tracking to lose on Nov 5th.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Ugh, ugh.

    England rugby's Twickenham home is to be renamed as the Allianz Stadium in a new sponsorship deal, say the Rugby Football Union.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/cd9dd2xyx2ko

    The only people who will call it that are the pundits and commentators who are contractually required to. Like peopel referring to the Barclays Premier League back in the day.

    It's actually a good way to make money since you get the cash and no one will ever really call it what it is renamed.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    Leon said:

    Starmer ia going to end up more hated than Boris and more reviled than Sunak and possibly more laughable than Truss

    All their initial instincts are wrong. They’ve already shown they have no ideas and those ideas they have are fucking contemptibly stupid. Starmer is an over promoted dork and reeves is probably worse

    There is certainly a risk of this. There is an underclass in the UK, spread across many towns and cities where they live in places long abandoned by wider society and the public's concern. No matter how hard they work - if they can find work - they can never get by and never escape.

    There is a specific immediate need to do something about these riots, but there is also a longer-term need to address the grinding poverty which is the backdrop for all of these places currently ablaze.

    Labour's challenge is not to shat the bed as spectacularly as the Tories did. You can't offer hope then deliver more failure. But if we get a few years in and there is no change and no hope, then I can see how Farage and even further to the right populists can clean up. Offering neo-fascist solutions to problems that nobody wants to address.

    I have no problem debating the whys and wherefores of migration. But if we want to significantly reduce it we will need a significant restructure of the economy to cover both the costs of labour and the huge investment needed into these places to pull them and the underclass out of grinding poverty. Farage et al offer crayon economics as to how they could fund such things, but in the real world it is much harder.

    Ultimately, the cost of action may be less than the cost of inaction. Tories endlessly say "how will we pay for x" even though we always find the higher cost of y when we say that x is unaffordable and suffer y as a direct consequence.
    I am genuinely not sure this is a circle that can be squared. There are a whole series of contradictory and in some cases unsolvable issues that make it perhaps impossible.

    We have hundreds of thousands of vacancies and that is only likely to increase as we increase the need for public/private sector workers in specific areas such as social care.

    We have a small but significant core of British workers who are either incapable or unwilling of filling those positions and who are alienated from society and have no faith in politicians or the system.

    We therefore have the need for a steady flow of migrants to fill those positions and to allow the economy to grow.

    We also have a world that generates millions of genuine refugees in addition to millions more genuine economic migrants who simply want a better life for themselves.

    We have a tiny but vociferous group of extremists who see the opportunity to use these issues as an excuse for violence and a means of stirring up hatred.

    In addition we have a tiny but vocal group of radicalised citizens who, for religious reasons, are committed to a society that is seriously at odds with our own.

    Mainstream society abides by a set of conventions and beliefs (in democracy, freedom of expression and thought, restraint of state and police power and the right to peaceful protest) which are open to abuse by the extremists on both sides but which cannot be changed without changing society in a seriously deliterious way. This limits the actions of both the state and society to deal with these issues.

    The whole thing is stoked by external factors, both directed at us - as in the actions of Russia and other bad faith players in stirring up trouble - and undirected, such as the Arab-Israeli conflict. The British state and society have little or no control over these factors but they are capable of causing huge problems for us internally.

    I don't think any Government - no matter how competent, well funded or well meaning - can deal with all of these issues as some are beyond our control and the others are contradictory and not open to simple, or perhaps even complex, solutions.

    I believe the best that society and state can do here is manage and mitigate. It is a bleak perspective but sadly I think it is accurate.

    Given that we have "employment agencies" selling visas at huge prices to would be immigrants, has anyone actually checked if all of these unfilled jobs exist?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited August 5
    Actually quite moving. This thing we’ve done for 3000 years with a minor break. And here we are doing it again, us humans. Athletics. In a stadium

    Running and jumping and throwing

    Did I mention I’m here for free? That only adds to the solemnity, to my mind
This discussion has been closed.