I don't think I've ever seen a more creative list of other people who's fault it was (including sundry institutions, a level crossing for making her late to her count, and the Returning Officer for preventing her making a speech); I can't see that she has resiled from a single thing.
TBH she sounds to me like General Paulus in about 1953, spending his declining years cranking out books and articles explaining why Stalingrad was not his responsibility. Imo the difference is that he had some reasonable excuses.
I wonder if her future is in reform. I expect they would not let her in, and may go phut before reaching a stage where she would consider them Truss-worthy.
I don't think I've ever seen a more creative list of other people who's fault it was (including sundry institutions, a level crossing for making her late, and the Returning Officer for preventing her making a speech); I can't see that she has resiled from a single thing.
TBH she sounds like General Paulus in about 1953, spending his declining years explaining why Stalingrad was not his responsibility. Imo the difference is that he had some reasonable excuses.
You actually think that she should have ignored centuries of convention, and the returning officer, and barged her way to the front to make an unprecedented loser's speech? You'd have squealed with indignation if that had happened. Some people here are pitiably twisted in their Truss hatred.
Nate Silver relaunches his model with Kamala Harris at 38.1% to win the Electoral College and 53.5% to win the popular vote (what a country!). When he retired the Biden-Trump model Biden was down to 27%
Kamala is 2.54 on Betfair which implies a 39.4 per cent chance of winning, a hair's breadth from Nate Silver's 38.1 per cent. Nate could have saved his computer some time there. 38.1 per cent would be 2.62 on Betfair.
Badenoch responds robustly to what she says are smears. The Tories need to plump for her if they want to get back in next time I think.
Another blue Lib Dem isn’t going to cut it after the next 5 years. The votes market is going to be for a radically smaller state both economically and socially. And if it comes with a hard edge it will be all the more popular.
Let’s be clear: these allegations are smears from former staff who I sacked after they were accused of bullying behaviour, lying about other colleagues to cover up their own failures and general gross incompetence. Intolerable behaviour I would not stand for (2/3)
Would definitely be a red flag in any normal organisation
This reported account of her spokesperson in the Guardian is a little different from “I sacked..”:
.. A spokesperson for Badenoch said the allegations were “completely false and a flagrant smear”. They confirmed that the business secretary “had to let go of” some senior officials and suggested she had found examples of “underperformance, complaints and bad behaviour” within her department. They added that she has “high standards and expectations….
Black women, especially black women of recent African heritage, get an awful lot of stick for being direct and not taking shit. Largely because they are direct and don't take any shit. I should know, I'm married to one.
Almost certainly these were pathetic civil servants who couldn't stand the heat and have therefore been rightly removed from the kitchen. If they hadn't done anything wrong, then the key is to give as good as you get. You'll be respected for that. But I bet they had cause civil servants.
Being a black woman of African heritage doesn't remove the requirement to treat staff with due process and according to the law.
Not wishing to stereotype, I can only think of one such woman out of many I have worked with professionally who would dream of doing something like this.
Such due process is a key reason that public sector productivity is so piss poor.
Processes and legal requirements to treat your staff properly that equally to private sector. And which have nothing to do with productivity. The opposite in fact. Badenoch did almost nothing as a minister. What was her productivity?
I don't think I've ever seen a more creative list of other people who's fault it was (including sundry institutions, a level crossing for making her late to her count, and the Returning Officer for preventing her making a speech); I can't see that she has resiled from a single thing.
TBH she sounds to me like General Paulus in about 1953, spending his declining years cranking out books and articles explaining why Stalingrad was not his responsibility. Imo the difference is that he had some reasonable excuses.
I wonder if her future is in reform. I expect they would not let her in, and may go phut before reaching a stage where she would consider them Truss-worthy.
Its 30o out and yet they all go to the seaside with their ballies on. Same as the knuckle draggers who turned up in Southport.
Yeah that’s not good either. Rival drugs gangs from London having a trip to the beach?
Its become quite a problem every summer since COVID. They have discovered places like Southend and Margate and eventually run into each other and they make sure they have their machetes tucked into the budgie smugglers.
Its 30o out and yet they all go to the seaside with their ballies on. Same as the knuckle draggers who turned up in Southport.
Yeah that’s not good either. Rival drugs gangs from London having a trip to the beach?
Its become quite a problem every summer since COVID. They have found places like Southend and Margate and eventually run into each other and they make sure they have their machetes tucked into the budgie smugglers.
It's almost like someone should be stopping and searching them.
Its 30o out and yet they all go to the seaside with their ballies on. Same as the knuckle draggers who turned up in Southport.
Yeah that’s not good either. Rival drugs gangs from London having a trip to the beach?
Its become quite a problem every summer since COVID. They have found places like Southend and Margate and eventually run into each other and they make sure they have their machetes tucked into the budgie smugglers.
It's almost like someone should be stopping and searching them.
Steady on, that's like well racist. Every normal person goes to the seaside dressed in balaclavas, its all the rage. Same as the phone snatchers in central London, no matter how hot it is, all black head to toe on a Sur-Ron e-bike.
So whoever the pick, it makes sense to announce there.
I’d be tempted to lay Shapiro at current odds. Though there’s only a week to go, so it’s hardly a trading bet.
Who’s going to go down best in the other six states ?
If Mark Kelly wants it she should choose him. The ideal balancing pick for the Harris ticket is a white man with an unimpeachable military background; Kelly is ex-Navy and an astronaut and (because of what happened to his wife) a gun control campaigner as well. The Dem base will approve strongly and he has bi-partisan appeal.
Shapiro is a great speaker , on the other hand Kelly has a much more interesting back story which I think is more helpful across the swing states .
Kelly was an astronaut. Every young man in America wanted to be an astronaut at some point in his life. He’d be a great choice for appealing to a very different demographic to Harris.
I think other aspects of Kelly are, in a sense, more compelling. His military experience, and obviously very personal experience of gun crime.
There have been a few astronaut-politicians but they have a slightly mixed record in the US. John Glenn was a longtime Senator but a damp squib in his run for President (and it saddled him with crippling debt). Jack Lousma lost a Senate race for the GOP in a state carried quite easily by Reagan in 1984. Jack Schmitt won his first time out but failed to get re-elected. Jack Swigert lost a primary for Senate and, although he eventually got a House seat, it was a very safe one (and sadly he was never sworn in as he died soon after election day).
Sure, a lot of people have wanted to be an astronaut. But I'm not sure it's quite seen as admirable or as a training ground for high office in the US in the way military service is - it's seen as a bit of a glamour role. That's unfair in the sense I suspect the mortality rate is a fair bit higher (and I think Americans' belief that military service is particularly important is rather OTT). But still.
I was always a bit surprised at how little Neil Armstrong's death was marked in the US. It seems they separate the achievement by their country from the individual who "got to do it".
Just a brief comment re: the Helter Skelter nonsense put out by a couple of posters last night. This site used to be a go to for partisan but informed debate. Reasonably knock about but the point is that it was reasonable and often very well informed. The comments last night were not acceptable. As now seems clear, the fascist right went to Southport for a paddy outside a Mosque. This is not politics, it was crime. Those talking about "sending them back" here last night fell into a very nasty, far right, rabbit hole for which there was little to no justification. Several long time posters are leaving PB because self indulgent egoists hijack threads and either genuinely post or assume a pose of supporting, nakedly racist or otherwise anti democratic crap. The site is becoming an unreadable parody of itself as a result. I would miss the old place, and appreciate the work RCS and TSE have done since the sad retirement of OGH, but unless these posters moderate themselves or get moderated, and quickly, then repeated unreadable threads will do their own work. Perhaps some may say it was some kind of joke, but it's a pretty sick joke when kids die and you are echoing EDL racist talking points.
So whoever the pick, it makes sense to announce there.
I’d be tempted to lay Shapiro at current odds. Though there’s only a week to go, so it’s hardly a trading bet.
Who’s going to go down best in the other six states ?
If Mark Kelly wants it she should choose him. The ideal balancing pick for the Harris ticket is a white man with an unimpeachable military background; Kelly is ex-Navy and an astronaut and (because of what happened to his wife) a gun control campaigner as well. The Dem base will approve strongly and he has bi-partisan appeal.
Shapiro is a great speaker , on the other hand Kelly has a much more interesting back story which I think is more helpful across the swing states .
Someone who knew about this stuff pointed out that you choose a VP to shore up this or that demographic or state but those people aren't interested in the VP, only the president. Given that you might as well choose someone you get on with. You will be spending a lot of time in their company, on the campaign trail, and hopefully also in the White House.
That would be my argument, too.
In any case, she has several options, all of whom would be useful picks. And not JD Vance.
Being able to wrestle an A-6 onto the deck a few hundred times and live to tell the tale is not nothing but it's also not a particularly valuable endorsement for being Veep.
Kelly, as might be imagined from a TP, is quite a boring speaker. Shapiro is much better and delivers more EC votes.
Just a brief comment re: the Helter Skelter nonsense put out by a couple of posters last night. This site used to be a go to for partisan but informed debate. Reasonably knock about but the point is that it was reasonable and often very well informed. The comments last night were not acceptable. As now seems clear, the fascist right went to Southport for a paddy outside a Mosque. This is not politics, it was crime. Those talking about "sending them back" here last night fell into a very nasty, far right, rabbit hole for which there was little to no justification. Several long time posters are leaving PB because self indulgent egoists hijack threads and either genuinely post or assume a pose of supporting, nakedly racist or otherwise anti democratic crap. The site is becoming an unreadable parody of itself as a result. I would miss the old place, and appreciate the work RCS and TSE have done since the sad retirement of OGH, but unless these posters moderate themselves or get moderated, and quickly, then repeated unreadable threads will do their own work. Perhaps some may say it was some kind of joke, but it's a pretty sick joke when kids die and you are echoing EDL racist talking points.
Oh you're the PB police guy, right?
Just tell people they're being idiots and why, rather than trying to ban everything. I have no doubt your rhetorical skills are up to the job.
Nate Silver relaunches his model with Kamala Harris at 38.1% to win the Electoral College and 53.5% to win the popular vote (what a country!). When he retired the Biden-Trump model Biden was down to 27%
Kamala is 2.54 on Betfair which implies a 39.4 per cent chance of winning, a hair's breadth from Nate Silver's 38.1 per cent. Nate could have saved his computer some time there. 38.1 per cent would be 2.62 on Betfair.
Just a brief comment re: the Helter Skelter nonsense put out by a couple of posters last night. This site used to be a go to for partisan but informed debate. Reasonably knock about but the point is that it was reasonable and often very well informed. The comments last night were not acceptable. As now seems clear, the fascist right went to Southport for a paddy outside a Mosque. This is not politics, it was crime. Those talking about "sending them back" here last night fell into a very nasty, far right, rabbit hole for which there was little to no justification. Several long time posters are leaving PB because self indulgent egoists hijack threads and either genuinely post or assume a pose of supporting, nakedly racist or otherwise anti democratic crap. The site is becoming an unreadable parody of itself as a result. I would miss the old place, and appreciate the work RCS and TSE have done since the sad retirement of OGH, but unless these posters moderate themselves or get moderated, and quickly, then repeated unreadable threads will do their own work. Perhaps some may say it was some kind of joke, but it's a pretty sick joke when kids die and you are echoing EDL racist talking points.
Oh you're the PB police guy, right?
Just tell people they're being idiots and why, rather than trying to ban everything. I have no doubt your rhetorical skills are up to the job.
No he's saying that some of the posters are potentially going to drive him (having already driven many other former posters) from this site.
and I really didn't like having to point out the racist undertones many posters revealed themselves to have last night..
Being able to wrestle an A-6 onto the deck a few hundred times and live to tell the tale is not nothing but it's also not a particularly valuable endorsement for being Veep.
Kelly, as might be imagined from a TP, is quite a boring speaker. Shapiro is much better and delivers more EC votes.
I'm not sure any of them 'deliver' any votes other than their own. But other than that, agreed.
Just a brief comment re: the Helter Skelter nonsense put out by a couple of posters last night. This site used to be a go to for partisan but informed debate. Reasonably knock about but the point is that it was reasonable and often very well informed. The comments last night were not acceptable. As now seems clear, the fascist right went to Southport for a paddy outside a Mosque. This is not politics, it was crime. Those talking about "sending them back" here last night fell into a very nasty, far right, rabbit hole for which there was little to no justification. Several long time posters are leaving PB because self indulgent egoists hijack threads and either genuinely post or assume a pose of supporting, nakedly racist or otherwise anti democratic crap. The site is becoming an unreadable parody of itself as a result. I would miss the old place, and appreciate the work RCS and TSE have done since the sad retirement of OGH, but unless these posters moderate themselves or get moderated, and quickly, then repeated unreadable threads will do their own work. Perhaps some may say it was some kind of joke, but it's a pretty sick joke when kids die and you are echoing EDL racist talking points.
Oh you're the PB police guy, right?
Just tell people they're being idiots and why, rather than trying to ban everything. I have no doubt your rhetorical skills are up to the job.
No he's saying that some of the posters are potentially going to drive him (having already driven many other former posters) from this site.
and I really didn't like having to point out the racist undertones many posters revealed themselves to have last night..
I think Leon's prophecies of doom are way over the top and his "send them back" comment last night crossed a line.
But I'm struggling to think of anyone else who's said anything that was racist. Would you care to name names?
Just a brief comment re: the Helter Skelter nonsense put out by a couple of posters last night. This site used to be a go to for partisan but informed debate. Reasonably knock about but the point is that it was reasonable and often very well informed. The comments last night were not acceptable. As now seems clear, the fascist right went to Southport for a paddy outside a Mosque. This is not politics, it was crime. Those talking about "sending them back" here last night fell into a very nasty, far right, rabbit hole for which there was little to no justification. Several long time posters are leaving PB because self indulgent egoists hijack threads and either genuinely post or assume a pose of supporting, nakedly racist or otherwise anti democratic crap. The site is becoming an unreadable parody of itself as a result. I would miss the old place, and appreciate the work RCS and TSE have done since the sad retirement of OGH, but unless these posters moderate themselves or get moderated, and quickly, then repeated unreadable threads will do their own work. Perhaps some may say it was some kind of joke, but it's a pretty sick joke when kids die and you are echoing EDL racist talking points.
Oh you're the PB police guy, right?
Just tell people they're being idiots and why, rather than trying to ban everything. I have no doubt your rhetorical skills are up to the job.
No he's saying that some of the posters are potentially going to drive him (having already driven many other former posters) from this site.
and I really didn't like having to point out the racist undertones many posters revealed themselves to have last night..
Nonsense, this is just the changing of the guard.
The lefties now have to defend government idiocy and over time many of them will drift away. The powerless righties can rant and rave and more of them will come on the site.
Today’s pub quiz question. Of what metal is an Olympic gold medal primarily made?
It’s actually silver with gold plating. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/how-to-become-olympic-millionaire/ A gold medal is not what it seems. Despite its name, an Olympic medal contains just six grams of gold and 523 grams of silver. The Paris 2024 medals, which were designed in collaboration with jeweller Chaumet, also contain iron from the original structure of the Eiffel Tower.
With gold prices at an all-time high, if the whole of the medal was made of gold, it would be worth more than £35,000. But as it stands, the melt value for the medal’s six grams is approximately £360. The silver which forms the rest of the medal could fetch £368.51 at current prices.
Just a brief comment re: the Helter Skelter nonsense put out by a couple of posters last night. This site used to be a go to for partisan but informed debate. Reasonably knock about but the point is that it was reasonable and often very well informed. The comments last night were not acceptable. As now seems clear, the fascist right went to Southport for a paddy outside a Mosque. This is not politics, it was crime. Those talking about "sending them back" here last night fell into a very nasty, far right, rabbit hole for which there was little to no justification. Several long time posters are leaving PB because self indulgent egoists hijack threads and either genuinely post or assume a pose of supporting, nakedly racist or otherwise anti democratic crap. The site is becoming an unreadable parody of itself as a result. I would miss the old place, and appreciate the work RCS and TSE have done since the sad retirement of OGH, but unless these posters moderate themselves or get moderated, and quickly, then repeated unreadable threads will do their own work. Perhaps some may say it was some kind of joke, but it's a pretty sick joke when kids die and you are echoing EDL racist talking points.
Oh you're the PB police guy, right?
Just tell people they're being idiots and why, rather than trying to ban everything. I have no doubt your rhetorical skills are up to the job.
It was remarkable pompous post.
I think @MaxPB had a point with what he posted yesterday.
The people of Southport are reeling after the horror inflicted on them yesterday.
They deserve our support and our respect.
Those who have hijacked the vigil for the victims with violence and thuggery have insulted the community as it grieves.
They will feel the full force of the law.
Sound from Starmer. The rentamob who turned up in the evening for a ruck with Plod need to be punished.
The EDL was born from football Casual Culture. It is no wonder they go looking for fights.
The EDL is football hooligan style violence applied to racism.
Some say that it started when demos (with some violence) and death threats got a play removed from a theatre. Because some in the Sikh community were offended.
People like Yarxley-Lennon saw that if a bit of street violence could get people what they wanted…
Today’s pub quiz question. Of what metal is an Olympic gold medal primarily made?
It’s actually silver with gold plating. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/how-to-become-olympic-millionaire/ A gold medal is not what it seems. Despite its name, an Olympic medal contains just six grams of gold and 523 grams of silver. The Paris 2024 medals, which were designed in collaboration with jeweller Chaumet, also contain iron from the original structure of the Eiffel Tower.
With gold prices at an all-time high, if the whole of the medal was made of gold, it would be worth more than £35,000. But as it stands, the melt value for the medal’s six grams is approximately £360. The silver which forms the rest of the medal could fetch £368.51 at current prices.
You wonder what it would cost if they had to mint real gold medals for every athlete winning every event.
Not cheap. And they'd probably be stolen and resold on the black market fairly regularly at those prices.
Just a brief comment re: the Helter Skelter nonsense put out by a couple of posters last night. This site used to be a go to for partisan but informed debate. Reasonably knock about but the point is that it was reasonable and often very well informed. The comments last night were not acceptable. As now seems clear, the fascist right went to Southport for a paddy outside a Mosque. This is not politics, it was crime. Those talking about "sending them back" here last night fell into a very nasty, far right, rabbit hole for which there was little to no justification. Several long time posters are leaving PB because self indulgent egoists hijack threads and either genuinely post or assume a pose of supporting, nakedly racist or otherwise anti democratic crap. The site is becoming an unreadable parody of itself as a result. I would miss the old place, and appreciate the work RCS and TSE have done since the sad retirement of OGH, but unless these posters moderate themselves or get moderated, and quickly, then repeated unreadable threads will do their own work. Perhaps some may say it was some kind of joke, but it's a pretty sick joke when kids die and you are echoing EDL racist talking points.
Oh you're the PB police guy, right?
Just tell people they're being idiots and why, rather than trying to ban everything. I have no doubt your rhetorical skills are up to the job.
No he's saying that some of the posters are potentially going to drive him (having already driven many other former posters) from this site.
and I really didn't like having to point out the racist undertones many posters revealed themselves to have last night..
Nonsense, this is just the changing of the guard.
The lefties now have to defend government idiocy and over time many of them will drift away. The powerless righties can rant and rave and more of them will come on the site.
Weve been here before and posters come and go.
Oh I have little problem with right wing posters - it's the not very subtle racist undertones that are the issue...
Just a brief comment re: the Helter Skelter nonsense put out by a couple of posters last night. This site used to be a go to for partisan but informed debate. Reasonably knock about but the point is that it was reasonable and often very well informed. The comments last night were not acceptable. As now seems clear, the fascist right went to Southport for a paddy outside a Mosque. This is not politics, it was crime. Those talking about "sending them back" here last night fell into a very nasty, far right, rabbit hole for which there was little to no justification. Several long time posters are leaving PB because self indulgent egoists hijack threads and either genuinely post or assume a pose of supporting, nakedly racist or otherwise anti democratic crap. The site is becoming an unreadable parody of itself as a result. I would miss the old place, and appreciate the work RCS and TSE have done since the sad retirement of OGH, but unless these posters moderate themselves or get moderated, and quickly, then repeated unreadable threads will do their own work. Perhaps some may say it was some kind of joke, but it's a pretty sick joke when kids die and you are echoing EDL racist talking points.
Oh you're the PB police guy, right?
Just tell people they're being idiots and why, rather than trying to ban everything. I have no doubt your rhetorical skills are up to the job.
It was remarkable pompous post.
I think @MaxPB had a point with what he posted yesterday.
I was going to say nickel but in replying the answer was revealed. It is, famously, the medal that isn't made of what it is meant to be. I mean, they weigh about 500g so that's about 25 or 30 grand's worth of metal if they were made of gold.
Someone give this man some sort of job to get him out of politics please.
He's reflecting the reality that the cost of building and installing wind turbines have gone up rendering the prices at the last successful auction as probably an historic low.
Now there is a question of how much more offshore wind do we need but given that we tried to auction more sites I suspect we need it and may need to allow the auction price to rise a bit..
Today’s pub quiz question. Of what metal is an Olympic gold medal primarily made?
It’s actually silver with gold plating. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/how-to-become-olympic-millionaire/ A gold medal is not what it seems. Despite its name, an Olympic medal contains just six grams of gold and 523 grams of silver. The Paris 2024 medals, which were designed in collaboration with jeweller Chaumet, also contain iron from the original structure of the Eiffel Tower.
With gold prices at an all-time high, if the whole of the medal was made of gold, it would be worth more than £35,000. But as it stands, the melt value for the medal’s six grams is approximately £360. The silver which forms the rest of the medal could fetch £368.51 at current prices.
You wonder what it would cost if they had to mint real gold medals for every athlete winning every event.
Not cheap. And they'd probably be stolen and resold on the black market fairly regularly at those prices.
I think it's around £25-30k just in terms of the raw metal. There are over 400 Olympic events, many of them team events, so you're probably looking at £30 million just in gold for gold medals if they were made of gold.
Just a brief comment re: the Helter Skelter nonsense put out by a couple of posters last night. This site used to be a go to for partisan but informed debate. Reasonably knock about but the point is that it was reasonable and often very well informed. The comments last night were not acceptable. As now seems clear, the fascist right went to Southport for a paddy outside a Mosque. This is not politics, it was crime. Those talking about "sending them back" here last night fell into a very nasty, far right, rabbit hole for which there was little to no justification. Several long time posters are leaving PB because self indulgent egoists hijack threads and either genuinely post or assume a pose of supporting, nakedly racist or otherwise anti democratic crap. The site is becoming an unreadable parody of itself as a result. I would miss the old place, and appreciate the work RCS and TSE have done since the sad retirement of OGH, but unless these posters moderate themselves or get moderated, and quickly, then repeated unreadable threads will do their own work. Perhaps some may say it was some kind of joke, but it's a pretty sick joke when kids die and you are echoing EDL racist talking points.
Oh you're the PB police guy, right?
Just tell people they're being idiots and why, rather than trying to ban everything. I have no doubt your rhetorical skills are up to the job.
No he's saying that some of the posters are potentially going to drive him (having already driven many other former posters) from this site.
and I really didn't like having to point out the racist undertones many posters revealed themselves to have last night..
Fair enough then let him leave.
It's perfectly legitimate to be racist. Indicative of a failure of intelligence, of logic, of fear or of something else, all of which can helpfully be explained if anyone can be bothered. I began a reply to eg Leon yesterday but realised I couldn't be bothered in this instance.
I have been bothered several times before, however, and Leon, probably also by his own admission, benefits from when people can be bothered to tell him what an arse he's being.
@cicero should try that approach. Or indeed leave the site I'm sure he will be missed. Or perhaps not.
Its 30o out and yet they all go to the seaside with their ballies on. Same as the knuckle draggers who turned up in Southport.
Yeah that’s not good either. Rival drugs gangs from London having a trip to the beach?
Its become quite a problem every summer since COVID. They have found places like Southend and Margate and eventually run into each other and they make sure they have their machetes tucked into the budgie smugglers.
It's almost like someone should be stopping and searching them.
Steady on, that's like well racist. Every normal person goes to the seaside dressed in balaclavas, its all the rage. Same as the phone snatchers in central London, no matter how hot it is, all black head to toe on a Sur-Ron e-bike.
Not like the good old days. People then had more style. Parkas, Vespas and Pills. Leather Grease and Nortons.
Just a brief comment re: the Helter Skelter nonsense put out by a couple of posters last night. This site used to be a go to for partisan but informed debate. Reasonably knock about but the point is that it was reasonable and often very well informed. The comments last night were not acceptable. As now seems clear, the fascist right went to Southport for a paddy outside a Mosque. This is not politics, it was crime. Those talking about "sending them back" here last night fell into a very nasty, far right, rabbit hole for which there was little to no justification. Several long time posters are leaving PB because self indulgent egoists hijack threads and either genuinely post or assume a pose of supporting, nakedly racist or otherwise anti democratic crap. The site is becoming an unreadable parody of itself as a result. I would miss the old place, and appreciate the work RCS and TSE have done since the sad retirement of OGH, but unless these posters moderate themselves or get moderated, and quickly, then repeated unreadable threads will do their own work. Perhaps some may say it was some kind of joke, but it's a pretty sick joke when kids die and you are echoing EDL racist talking points.
Oh you're the PB police guy, right?
Just tell people they're being idiots and why, rather than trying to ban everything. I have no doubt your rhetorical skills are up to the job.
No he's saying that some of the posters are potentially going to drive him (having already driven many other former posters) from this site.
and I really didn't like having to point out the racist undertones many posters revealed themselves to have last night..
Fair enough then let him leave.
It's perfectly legitimate to be racist. Indicative of a failure of intelligence, of logic, of fear or of something else, all of which can helpfully be explained if anyone can be bothered. I began a reply to eg Leon yesterday but realised I couldn't be bothered in this instance.
I have been bothered several times before, however, and Leon, probably also by his own admission, benefits from when people can be bothered to tell him what an arse he's being.
@cicero should try that approach. Or indeed leave the site I'm sure he will be missed. Or perhaps not.
I'd like to know who has left. Heathener left, but 'she' was one of Leon's characters anyway - I think he just got bored of her. She'll be dusted down soon I'm sure. Nick Palmer posts less but he blamed that on puerile headers not btl racism.
Just a brief comment re: the Helter Skelter nonsense put out by a couple of posters last night. This site used to be a go to for partisan but informed debate. Reasonably knock about but the point is that it was reasonable and often very well informed. The comments last night were not acceptable. As now seems clear, the fascist right went to Southport for a paddy outside a Mosque. This is not politics, it was crime. Those talking about "sending them back" here last night fell into a very nasty, far right, rabbit hole for which there was little to no justification. Several long time posters are leaving PB because self indulgent egoists hijack threads and either genuinely post or assume a pose of supporting, nakedly racist or otherwise anti democratic crap. The site is becoming an unreadable parody of itself as a result. I would miss the old place, and appreciate the work RCS and TSE have done since the sad retirement of OGH, but unless these posters moderate themselves or get moderated, and quickly, then repeated unreadable threads will do their own work. Perhaps some may say it was some kind of joke, but it's a pretty sick joke when kids die and you are echoing EDL racist talking points.
Oh you're the PB police guy, right?
Just tell people they're being idiots and why, rather than trying to ban everything. I have no doubt your rhetorical skills are up to the job.
No he's saying that some of the posters are potentially going to drive him (having already driven many other former posters) from this site.
and I really didn't like having to point out the racist undertones many posters revealed themselves to have last night..
Nonsense, this is just the changing of the guard.
The lefties now have to defend government idiocy and over time many of them will drift away. The powerless righties can rant and rave and more of them will come on the site.
Weve been here before and posters come and go.
No, the non-Conservatives will drift away in response to your increasingly tedious posts. A genuine critique is fine, but after less than three weeks you have reached the anger stage of grief. Most of us aren't interested, although you do have a few fellow mourners who feel reassured by your dreary narrative.
There is also some really unpleasant MAGA s*** from a handful of clowns. It's a shame because PB is such a great resource.
Among other things, it reveals that she was late to the count in Kings Lynn because she'd taken her daughter to McDonalds having been told there was half an hour before announcement was due, and that despite the McDonalds being 7 minutes from the leisure centre, they were delayed when a level crossing came down!
Perhaps even more tragi-comically, she was asked why she didn't give a loser's speech, and responded that the losers don't get speeches in Kings Lynn. In fact she glanced at the returning officer to see if she'd be asked, but they were just ushered off the stage. I could be wrong but I seem to remember her being widely abused for that here.
Anyway, watch the interview - it's Liz at her most punchy and she's very good.
I really can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not?
Ok, I'm not.
I don't deploy sarcasm very often - it's the lowest form of wit.
Liz Truss' excuses have a dog ate my homework vibe. Who knows? Maybe the dog did eat her homework ....
Do they? Is there a 'dog ate my homework' vibe about claiming the Bank of England is responsible for setting interest rates, which they are? Seems like a fairly prosaic statement of fact to me.
I mean a dog ate my homework vibe on the combination of missing the count because the level crossing barrier was down and being being the only losing candidate in Britain prohibited by the Returning Officer from making a concession speech via a non verbal communication on the platform that was hidden from everyone else in the room.
Just a brief comment re: the Helter Skelter nonsense put out by a couple of posters last night. This site used to be a go to for partisan but informed debate. Reasonably knock about but the point is that it was reasonable and often very well informed. The comments last night were not acceptable. As now seems clear, the fascist right went to Southport for a paddy outside a Mosque. This is not politics, it was crime. Those talking about "sending them back" here last night fell into a very nasty, far right, rabbit hole for which there was little to no justification. Several long time posters are leaving PB because self indulgent egoists hijack threads and either genuinely post or assume a pose of supporting, nakedly racist or otherwise anti democratic crap. The site is becoming an unreadable parody of itself as a result. I would miss the old place, and appreciate the work RCS and TSE have done since the sad retirement of OGH, but unless these posters moderate themselves or get moderated, and quickly, then repeated unreadable threads will do their own work. Perhaps some may say it was some kind of joke, but it's a pretty sick joke when kids die and you are echoing EDL racist talking points.
Oh you're the PB police guy, right?
Just tell people they're being idiots and why, rather than trying to ban everything. I have no doubt your rhetorical skills are up to the job.
No he's saying that some of the posters are potentially going to drive him (having already driven many other former posters) from this site.
and I really didn't like having to point out the racist undertones many posters revealed themselves to have last night..
More snowflakes, don't run away , call them out , name and shame instead of crying like a big baby and running away to mumsnet
Just a brief comment re: the Helter Skelter nonsense put out by a couple of posters last night. This site used to be a go to for partisan but informed debate. Reasonably knock about but the point is that it was reasonable and often very well informed. The comments last night were not acceptable. As now seems clear, the fascist right went to Southport for a paddy outside a Mosque. This is not politics, it was crime. Those talking about "sending them back" here last night fell into a very nasty, far right, rabbit hole for which there was little to no justification. Several long time posters are leaving PB because self indulgent egoists hijack threads and either genuinely post or assume a pose of supporting, nakedly racist or otherwise anti democratic crap. The site is becoming an unreadable parody of itself as a result. I would miss the old place, and appreciate the work RCS and TSE have done since the sad retirement of OGH, but unless these posters moderate themselves or get moderated, and quickly, then repeated unreadable threads will do their own work. Perhaps some may say it was some kind of joke, but it's a pretty sick joke when kids die and you are echoing EDL racist talking points.
Oh you're the PB police guy, right?
Just tell people they're being idiots and why, rather than trying to ban everything. I have no doubt your rhetorical skills are up to the job.
It was remarkable pompous post.
I think @MaxPB had a point with what he posted yesterday.
What did he say.
guaranteed to be bollox about taking state pension of poor old pensioners so he can gloat even more about how much he has etc
I don't think I've ever seen a more creative list of other people who's fault it was (including sundry institutions, a level crossing for making her late, and the Returning Officer for preventing her making a speech); I can't see that she has resiled from a single thing.
TBH she sounds like General Paulus in about 1953, spending his declining years explaining why Stalingrad was not his responsibility. Imo the difference is that he had some reasonable excuses.
You actually think that she should have ignored centuries of convention, and the returning officer, and barged her way to the front to make an unprecedented loser's speech? You'd have squealed with indignation if that had happened. Some people here are pitiably twisted in their Truss hatred.
I think you need to try a bit harder. Unprecedented loser's speech?
Formally it's in the discretion of the Returning Officer. I've watched hundreds of count announcements, and runners up not making speeches is rare iirc. I can't recall where that has not happened. Anyone else?
A former PM being prevented from making such a concession speech? Cloud-cuckoo land. As an agricultural area, there should lots of pigs in Downham Market - perhaps some can fly.
There's only one person who has put La Truss where she is now. The first thing she needs to do is look in the mirror.
Among other things, it reveals that she was late to the count in Kings Lynn because she'd taken her daughter to McDonalds having been told there was half an hour before announcement was due, and that despite the McDonalds being 7 minutes from the leisure centre, they were delayed when a level crossing came down!
Perhaps even more tragi-comically, she was asked why she didn't give a loser's speech, and responded that the losers don't get speeches in Kings Lynn. In fact she glanced at the returning officer to see if she'd be asked, but they were just ushered off the stage. I could be wrong but I seem to remember her being widely abused for that here.
Anyway, watch the interview - it's Liz at her most punchy and she's very good.
I really can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not?
Ok, I'm not.
I don't deploy sarcasm very often - it's the lowest form of wit.
Liz Truss' excuses have a dog ate my homework vibe. Who knows? Maybe the dog did eat her homework ....
Do they? Is there a 'dog ate my homework' vibe about claiming the Bank of England is responsible for setting interest rates, which they are? Seems like a fairly prosaic statement of fact to me.
I mean a dog ate my homework vibe on the combination of missing the count because the level crossing barrier was down and being being the only losing candidate in Britain prohibited by the Returning Officer from making a concession speech via a non verbal communication on the platform that was hidden from everyone else in the room.
That isn't what she said; she said that the losers in King's Lynn never make a concession speech by tradition. She non-verbally 'offered' to hang around and do one but was ushered away in the usual manner. You just can't bear it because everyone here was wanking themselves to a stump over this appalling disrespectful act traducing our politics, and it was totally unjustified - again.
Just a brief comment re: the Helter Skelter nonsense put out by a couple of posters last night. This site used to be a go to for partisan but informed debate. Reasonably knock about but the point is that it was reasonable and often very well informed. The comments last night were not acceptable. As now seems clear, the fascist right went to Southport for a paddy outside a Mosque. This is not politics, it was crime. Those talking about "sending them back" here last night fell into a very nasty, far right, rabbit hole for which there was little to no justification. Several long time posters are leaving PB because self indulgent egoists hijack threads and either genuinely post or assume a pose of supporting, nakedly racist or otherwise anti democratic crap. The site is becoming an unreadable parody of itself as a result. I would miss the old place, and appreciate the work RCS and TSE have done since the sad retirement of OGH, but unless these posters moderate themselves or get moderated, and quickly, then repeated unreadable threads will do their own work. Perhaps some may say it was some kind of joke, but it's a pretty sick joke when kids die and you are echoing EDL racist talking points.
Oh you're the PB police guy, right?
Just tell people they're being idiots and why, rather than trying to ban everything. I have no doubt your rhetorical skills are up to the job.
No he's saying that some of the posters are potentially going to drive him (having already driven many other former posters) from this site.
and I really didn't like having to point out the racist undertones many posters revealed themselves to have last night..
More snowflakes, don't run away , call them out , name and shame instead of crying like a big baby and running away to mumsnet
Bollocks. Just to be clear. Outright "send them back" garbage should be reserved for places like ConHome, not a site where people in general come to hear from posters who know what they are talking about. The stuff last night crossed a line. Not just for me but for anyone who gives a toss about democracy. So either people think before they post that shit or they will have an audience of one. PB has been a good place to learn stuff from people who have different views. Good posters are getting pissed off with the aggressive, turgid crap. Women posters in particular have been driven off, and I honestly don't want to hear the latest drivel from Doughty St's tinfoil hat columnist. I particularly don't need to hear from racist c*nts peddling stupid race war memes that were shit even in 1969. It's not about me, it's about keeping this place as good as it can be- combative but not barking. Yesterday was barking.
Are Labour really going to bring in the school fees VAT in January mid way through a school year?
That feels bizarre to me.
They’re attempting to make it retrospective to this September, but can’t get the legislation through in time.
Which I suspect will lead to a well-funded legal challenge.
Any evidence to back the September claim up?
Because if they were doing that they would have had to do it yesterday and instead all they said January.. (Remember this sort of trick is something I'm very aware of - so the wording yesterday was interesting and carefully created a distinct line)...
Reality is that by implementing it in January and announcing yesterday after the school year and finished it's designed to minimise the number of people able to move schools before September which is probably a relief to both State and Private schools...
Although it does rather mess up people who are already struggling to pay school fees...
So we’ll get a winter of freezing pensioner headlines followed by a January of taking the little darlings out of school/could state schools be overwhelmed headlines. Plus whatever comes down the line in the budget in October.
I don’t think we’ll be seeing much by way of a Labour honeymoon. That doesn’t mean that the Tories are going to suddenly look amazing (they’re not). But it will be interesting to see what the polls are coming out with early next year.
Not optimal… but then I guess they’re getting these hits out of the way early.
I LOL at Labour for the private school fees move.
I think Starmer reckons it'll be another foxhunting ban moment. But foxhunting was directly supported by very few people, and this move will affect many, many more people directly. It'll cheer those who hate people who are richer than them; but dismay many more.
Personally I’m a VAT supremacist, so this is grist to the mill. VAT on everything!
VAT on everything is a fair argument. But this is VAT on something very specific and targeted, mostly for ideological reasons rather than attempting to raise revenue.
It’s red meat to an activist base who think every private school is just like “Boris Johnson’s Eton”.
And it may well work out that Boris Johnson Eton comes out ahead on the changes, and it small / special needs schools that are the ones most effected.
If you want an extra £1bn from rich people there are much easier ways to get it.
Starmer doesn’t give a fuck how much money it raises. It was a high protein plant based meat substitute policy for his base that doesn’t repel centrist dickheads and can't be proved to cost a shitload of cash. He needed his base as hard as a fucking brick to work the GE for him.
It was and is smart politics. All of this wanking off about how much it will raise or cost totally misses the point of it. The lachrymose grief of the bottom half of the bourgeoisie is a splendid by-product, not the prime intent.
And the children with disrupted education, the good teachers now unemployed and the closed businesses?
All for a spiteful and envious policy that will damage the country overall.
And we've got five years of the crap that 20% of the electorate foisted on us.
This could be a re-run of the Wilson administration 1974-1979, just with a bigger majority.
Not really, to have a re-run like that you need a slender majority forcing decisions in a particular direction...
Well with talk like this, they had better deliver. If they don't, it's not entirely impossible to see them losing their majority in five years.
Rayner accuses Badenoch of not understanding why Tories lost election, with housing key factor Rayner starts by wishing Badenoch luck with her leadership bid. She says it was Badenoch’s ambition to be leader of the opposition, not hers.
She says she thinks there are a few things Badenoch “has not understood”.
One is that the Tories lost the election. Another is that they left services in a mess, including failing to meet their housing targets.
She says the Conservatives '“are talking to themselves, not the country”...
OTOH, if they do, then it's going to be a very long stint in opposition for Kemi.
If Labour manage to deliver a Britain in which housing is as affordable as it was for our parents' generation they will deserve a long spell in power. Can't disagree - housing is possibly the biggest issue there is right now.
They won't.
They could of course but the only way to do that is to effectvely nationalise housebuilding and have local councils or Central Government build hundreds of thousands of houses themselves. It won't happen - even though actually it would be a good idea if it did. People continue to refuse tounderstand that the problem with housebuilding is the housebuilders. When prices stagnate they stop building to ensure the prices start rising again.
You're almost there Richard at recognising the problem. So close and yet so far away.
We need to break the oligopoly of the housing developers. Which means planning reform.
It doesn't matter how much planning permission is given out, if its given out to an oligopoly who can constrain supply and competitors can't get involved as getting permission for a tiny number of homes is so difficult.
Getting permission is expensive and laborious which only makes sense if you can divide that cost between a large number of homes, so it doesn't cost as much per home, which only the oligopoly of large developers with expertise at playing the planning game can do.
Get rid of planning permission, let anyone build, and the developers would face competition. If they refuse to build, then anyone else can do so instead. One house at a time, without waiting for permission first.
Sigh. Still droning on about planning when it is a complete red herring. All you are doing is showing your utter ignorance of how the planning system works. Very few planning applications for development get turned down by the planning system. They are simply there to make sure that the houses built are fit for purpose, do not cause harm to others (for example by building on flood plains and then building flood defences which push the problem down stream to flood other existing properties) and that the right measures are taken in advance to protect/record archaeology and natural resources/nature.
Of course those who are in any way involved in the planning system or in local government know this already. It is just the ignorant like you who need it explained to them time and time again and who still won't listen.
A significant proportion of planning applications for homes (as opposed to renovations) gets rejected as we've discussed before.
Though yes, you're not keen on new housing actually happening and want to compel the construction of public services onto new builds rather than have the entire public pay for public services, so disagreeing with that is a difference of priorities and opinion, not understanding.
Hence your laughable claim last time we spoke that a school has the catchment area of a new build estate.
Completely wrong. I want lots of new houses built. I am the one who has been proposing new towns/cities in my own county. I can always tell when you feel you are losing the argument. You start lying about other people's views even when they have been perfectly clear for years.
My argument is not about the need for new housing, it is about your idiotic and unsupportable views on the causes of the problems. You have your own very particular antipathy towards planning and so make that the root of all evil even when you don't have the first idea how it works or what it does.
Not lying, when we first debated planning you were mortified at the idea of more houses being built near you, though you've segued into recognising the need for more housing but elsewhere and oh planning doesn't restrict it but lets not change it anyway ...
Thats an outright lie. Par for the course from you I'm afraid these days.
Comments
https://x.com/CrimeLdn/status/1818526049463861389
Its 30o out and yet they all go to the seaside with their ballies on. Same as the knuckle draggers who turned up in Southport.
It's good to know our Pedantry Police are on the ball even at this time of the morning.
There have been a few astronaut-politicians but they have a slightly mixed record in the US. John Glenn was a longtime Senator but a damp squib in his run for President (and it saddled him with crippling debt). Jack Lousma lost a Senate race for the GOP in a state carried quite easily by Reagan in 1984. Jack Schmitt won his first time out but failed to get re-elected. Jack Swigert lost a primary for Senate and, although he eventually got a House seat, it was a very safe one (and sadly he was never sworn in as he died soon after election day).
Sure, a lot of people have wanted to be an astronaut. But I'm not sure it's quite seen as admirable or as a training ground for high office in the US in the way military service is - it's seen as a bit of a glamour role. That's unfair in the sense I suspect the mortality rate is a fair bit higher (and I think Americans' belief that military service is particularly important is rather OTT). But still.
I was always a bit surprised at how little Neil Armstrong's death was marked in the US. It seems they separate the achievement by their country from the individual who "got to do it".
This site used to be a go to for partisan but informed debate. Reasonably knock about but the point is that it was reasonable and often very well informed. The comments last night were not acceptable. As now seems clear, the fascist right went to Southport for a paddy outside a Mosque. This is not politics, it was crime.
Those talking about "sending them back" here last night fell into a very nasty, far right, rabbit hole for which there was little to no justification.
Several long time posters are leaving PB because self indulgent egoists hijack threads and either genuinely post or assume a pose of supporting, nakedly racist or otherwise anti democratic crap. The site is becoming an unreadable parody of itself as a result.
I would miss the old place, and appreciate the work RCS and TSE have done since the sad retirement of OGH, but unless these posters moderate themselves or get moderated, and quickly, then repeated unreadable threads will do their own work. Perhaps some may say it was some kind of joke, but it's a pretty sick joke when kids die and you are echoing EDL racist talking points.
In any case, she has several options, all of whom would be useful picks.
And not JD Vance.
Kelly, as might be imagined from a TP, is quite a boring speaker. Shapiro is much better and delivers more EC votes.
Just tell people they're being idiots and why, rather than trying to ban everything. I have no doubt your rhetorical skills are up to the job.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/07/31/miliband-add-15bn-energy-bills-record-offshore-wind-invest/
war is peace etc.
Should be evens
and I really didn't like having to point out the racist undertones many posters revealed themselves to have last night..
But I'm struggling to think of anyone else who's said anything that was racist. Would you care to name names?
The lefties now have to defend government idiocy and over time many of them will drift away. The powerless righties can rant and rave and more of them will come on the site.
Weve been here before and posters come and go.
Good thread from him.
https://x.com/davidfrum/status/1817200858918199790
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/how-to-become-olympic-millionaire/
A gold medal is not what it seems. Despite its name, an Olympic medal contains just six grams of gold and 523 grams of silver. The Paris 2024 medals, which were designed in collaboration with jeweller Chaumet, also contain iron from the original structure of the Eiffel Tower.
With gold prices at an all-time high, if the whole of the medal was made of gold, it would be worth more than £35,000. But as it stands, the melt value for the medal’s six grams is approximately £360. The silver which forms the rest of the medal could fetch £368.51 at current prices.
I think @MaxPB had a point with what he posted yesterday.
Some say that it started when demos (with some violence) and death threats got a play removed from a theatre. Because some in the Sikh community were offended.
People like Yarxley-Lennon saw that if a bit of street violence could get people what they wanted…
Not cheap. And they'd probably be stolen and resold on the black market fairly regularly at those prices.
Lucky guy isn't half baked.
Now there is a question of how much more offshore wind do we need but given that we tried to auction more sites I suspect we need it and may need to allow the auction price to rise a bit..
NEW THREAD
It's perfectly legitimate to be racist. Indicative of a failure of intelligence, of logic, of fear or of something else, all of which can helpfully be explained if anyone can be bothered. I began a reply to eg Leon yesterday but realised I couldn't be bothered in this instance.
I have been bothered several times before, however, and Leon, probably also by his own admission, benefits from when people can be bothered to tell him what an arse he's being.
@cicero should try that approach. Or indeed leave the site I'm sure he will be missed. Or perhaps not.
Jumpers for goalposts etc.
There is also some really unpleasant MAGA s*** from a handful of clowns. It's a shame because PB is such a great resource.
It is no different to claims that taking our pension money to "invest in Britain" will give us better returns. No evidence it will.
And the guilty people won't be around to take the flak when it all goes wrong.
Formally it's in the discretion of the Returning Officer. I've watched hundreds of count announcements, and runners up not making speeches is rare iirc. I can't recall where that has not happened. Anyone else?
A former PM being prevented from making such a concession speech? Cloud-cuckoo land. As an agricultural area, there should lots of pigs in Downham Market - perhaps some can fly.
There's only one person who has put La Truss where she is now. The first thing she needs to do is look in the mirror.
Yesterday was barking.