There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.
Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.
Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.
Give your head a wobble.
@kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him
There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
Thanks.
What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.
People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.
People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
It was me on the previous thread:
"Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.
Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.
However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.
However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.
What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.
Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
Potential ecological fallacy there.
I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.
Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.
Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.
Give your head a wobble.
@kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him
There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
Thanks.
What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.
People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.
People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
I can see your point, but that's always been the case. See black people being blamed for crimes - or the fear of crimes - back as far as the 1960s, well before 'unchecked mass immigration'.
In the minds of the brainless, it's always the fault of 'others'; and that's nearly always minorities.
But what if, occasionally, the “bigoted viewpoint” is true?
(snip)
Going around shooting 500 men because they might be paedophiles is not excused if one of them turns out to have been a paedophile, and the other 499 were not.
For all your pathetic screeching about being 'right', your track record of hot takes on incidents is very, very poor.
There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.
Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.
Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.
Give your head a wobble.
@kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him
There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
Thanks.
What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.
People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.
People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
It was me on the previous thread:
"Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.
Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.
However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.
However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.
What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
Ah, thank you. I think this was a very wise post.
There has always been some friction between locals and immigrants but it feels like until recently, there was an eventual integration. Now, that won't happen, for several reasons.
Firstly, the sheer number of immigrants mean you can create entirely parallel communities who never need to interact with the rest of us, see the Roma riots in Leeds or stroll through Whitechapel and have a natter with Lutfur Rahman if you need convincing.
Secondly, you have the, eh, religious nature of some recent immigrants. *Fundamentalists* are unlikely to change their views or integrate. See the Hasidem in Stoke Newington for details. The difference is, we're not importing hundreds of thousands of Haredi a year, nor do they tend to blow themselves up.
Finally you have diametric opposition. Beyond skin colour (and possibly religion), which I obviously don't share with an immigrant from the West Indies, we probably share a lot of the same interests and desires. We don't dress all that differently. We don't send our children to different schools. Etc. So there are important differences but also significant commonalities. With some immigrants now there is literally no common ground - leading to increased tension and, as you rightly point out, sectarianism.
I think you have it absolutely nailed on in your earlier post. The future of the UK looks a lot like the history of Northern Ireland.
There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.
Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.
Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.
Give your head a wobble.
@kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him
There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
Thanks.
What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.
People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.
People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
It was me on the previous thread:
"Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.
Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.
However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.
However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.
What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.
Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
Ok so wait, you’re allowed to wildly speculate, but anyone else that does is a racist? Got that
Another 4th for the UK in the women's team final for gymnastics. There have been some exceptional results but this is still coming across to me as the nearly games so far.
We are due a bad one. I predict 8th or 9th. Still bloody impressive
Is it me, or is it a touch bad-tempered today, whilst I've been away supervising gas engineers?
I feel a need for a pineapple-topped pizza.
My photo quota today is a new Olympic Sport - autobalance. It's a valid sport even though a judge is present. I'm not sure which country this is. I have lots of ideas for other events.
I was quite taken by a suggestion in a trying-hard-but-not-quite-getting-there suggestion from the CIHT that rising bollards should have a bleep-warning for VIPs (Visually Impaired People) before they rise. Not totally convinced that that is to the left on the pareto chart.
* Chartered Institute of Highways and Transportation.
Yeah, it’s been right cranky the last couple of days.
Dead children are secondary to people either wanting to bash migration, or as has happened today, wanting to sneer at a frightened community who dared to boo Starmer.
On a plus note the cycle route I use to work has had in the last couple of weeks a lot of work to not only improve access to it but also to remove the nasty bits where roots prose through the pathway.
One of the two gas engineers who was fitting the new boiler this morning * was a lady who retired from the police several years ago in her 30s because she was divorced with 3 young kids and could not find childcare to handle the shift pattern.
Not sure just where prices are now except that British Gas BFONT their customers with an inverted porcupine, but I paid £2750 for a Baxi Platinum Compact with a 10 year guarantee (+£250 over 5 year guarantee), which included a Magnaclean (iron filing remover), Gas Safety Cert and a supplied shower replaced. Trader below VAT threshold. 2 people 5 hours. That is probably a price for likely repeat business, as she will get ~3 services/safety certs per annum from me, plus be a regular supplier.
From the Guardian. The focus is the suspects mental health. Seems reasonable to me. Stabbing kids to death is not rational and it does not seem terror related.
There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.
Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.
Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.
Give your head a wobble.
@kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him
There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
Thanks.
What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.
People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.
People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
I can see your point, but that's always been the case. See black people being blamed for crimes - or the fear of crimes - back as far as the 1960s, well before 'unchecked mass immigration'.
In the minds of the brainless, it's always the fault of 'others'; and that's nearly always minorities.
But what if, occasionally, the “bigoted viewpoint” is true?
(snip)
Going around shooting 500 men because they might be paedophiles is not excused if one of them turns out to have been a paedophile, and the other 499 were not.
For all your pathetic screeching about being 'right', your track record of hot takes on incidents is very, very poor.
This is such an embarrassingly stupid remark I am going to do the sporting thing and allow you to delete it before I reply and humiliate you. You’re welcome
Another 4th for the UK in the women's team final for gymnastics. There have been some exceptional results but this is still coming across to me as the nearly games so far.
We are due a bad one. I predict 8th or 9th. Still bloody impressive
Pre lottery a bad one was when the medalists could all share a taxi.
Among other things, it reveals that she was late to the count in Kings Lynn because she'd taken her daughter to McDonalds having been told there was half an hour before announcement was due, and that despite the McDonalds being 7 minutes from the leisure centre, they were delayed when a level crossing came down!
Perhaps even more tragi-comically, she was asked why she didn't give a loser's speech, and responded that the losers don't get speeches in Kings Lynn. In fact she glanced at the returning officer to see if she'd be asked, but they were just ushered off the stage. I could be wrong but I seem to remember her being widely abused for that here.
Anyway, watch the interview - it's Liz at her most punchy and she's very good.
Lozza Fox is getting involved, talking about the need 'to permanently remove Islam from Great Britain. Completely and entirely'.
The rest of us are just thinking of how beneficial it would be for him to be completely permanently removed from public discourse.
He clearly needs to raise some money given that Lozza managed to open up a whole new set of libel claims last Friday. Won’t go into the details for obvious reasons
Did he ?
Oops !!
Another lot? Needs to ask the Leeanderthal Man how he handled it from the other side. Learn the lesson of the first pratfall, and read the First Law of Holes.
Oh hang on, I was thinking of Joey vs JV, not Lozza the Kneejerk.
But depending on who Lozza has gone for, it may be good for some charities in due course.
Another 4th for the UK in the women's team final for gymnastics. There have been some exceptional results but this is still coming across to me as the nearly games so far.
We are due a bad one. I predict 8th or 9th. Still bloody impressive
Pre lottery a bad one was when the medalists could all share a taxi.
Gold medallists. Even at Atlanta, we got 15 medals which would have been tied 17th if the ranking was done on medal count rather than golds.
There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.
Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.
Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.
Give your head a wobble.
@kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him
There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
Thanks.
What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.
People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.
People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
It was me on the previous thread:
"Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.
Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.
However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.
However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.
What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.
Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
Funnily enough Peter Hitchens has been pointing out for some time that virtually all these incidents (and US school shootings) involve cannabis users and getting roundly monstered about it (with the authorities increasingly reluctant to answer questions as to whether the assailant was a user).
I think you have it absolutely nailed on in your earlier post. The future of the UK looks a lot like the history of Northern Ireland.
With a key difference - there's no obvious reason for a war / terrorism.
So we will end up with this ghettoisation (in a few areas - the "future of the UK" is massively overstating it. I can't see it happening in County Durham. Or most of London, actually). But very little bloodshed.
A damn shame but in the grand scheme of things probably not too big a deal.
Is it me, or is it a touch bad-tempered today, whilst I've been away supervising gas engineers?
I feel a need for a pineapple-topped pizza.
My photo quota today is a new Olympic Sport - autobalance. It's a valid sport even though a judge is present. I'm not sure which country this is. I have lots of ideas for other events.
I was quite taken by a suggestion in a trying-hard-but-not-quite-getting-there suggestion from the CIHT that rising bollards should have a bleep-warning for VIPs (Visually Impaired People) before they rise. Not totally convinced that that is to the left on the pareto chart.
* Chartered Institute of Highways and Transportation.
Yeah, it’s been right cranky the last couple of days.
Dead children are secondary to people either wanting to bash migration, or as has happened today, wanting to sneer at a frightened community who dared to boo Starmer.
On a plus note the cycle route I use to work has had in the last couple of weeks a lot of work to not only improve access to it but also to remove the nasty bits where roots prose through the pathway.
One of the two gas engineers who was fitting the new boiler this morning * was a lady who retired from the police several years ago in her 30s because she was divorced with 3 young kids and could not find childcare to handle the shift pattern.
Not sure just where prices are now except that British Gas BFONT their customers with an inverted porcupine, but I paid £2750 for a Baxi Platinum Compact with a 10 year guarantee (+£250 over 5 year guarantee), which included a Magnaclean (iron filing remover), Gas Safety Cert and a supplied shower replaced. Trader below VAT threshold. 2 people 5 hours. That is probably a price for likely repeat business, as she will get ~3 services/safety certs per annum from me, plus be a regular supplier.
I don’t think that’s unreasonable. I had a Baxi fitted a few years ago which included some new pipework and it was 1850 GBP and I got a discount on the boiler as I worked for them at the time.
Since then had to replace the expansion vessel and plate to plate.
Not a fan of Combi boilers as it’s a pressured system.
Yours is probably made at the Preston site which, when I worked there had a BNP councillor.
Another 4th for the UK in the women's team final for gymnastics. There have been some exceptional results but this is still coming across to me as the nearly games so far.
We are due a bad one. I predict 8th or 9th. Still bloody impressive
Pre lottery a bad one was when the medalists could all share a taxi.
Gold medallists. Even at Atlanta, we got 15 medals which would have been tied 17th if the ranking was done on medal count rather than golds.
Well small minibus....
I believe the boffins prediction for 2024 was Team GB would get similar number of medals, 60+, but fewer of those would be gold.
There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.
Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.
Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.
Give your head a wobble.
@kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him
There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
Thanks.
What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.
People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.
People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
It was me on the previous thread:
"Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.
Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.
However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.
However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.
What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.
Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
Funnily enough Peter Hitchens has been pointing out for some time that virtually all these incidents (and US school shootings) involve cannabis users and getting roundly monstered about it (with the authorities increasingly reluctant to answer questions as to whether the assailant was a user).
That's because every youngster who isn't an insufferable goody two shoes, or in the military or something, smokes cannabis.
Apart from one particular demographic of terrorist they're probably all big drinkers too.
Another 4th for the UK in the women's team final for gymnastics. There have been some exceptional results but this is still coming across to me as the nearly games so far.
We are due a bad one. I predict 8th or 9th. Still bloody impressive
Pre lottery a bad one was when the medalists could all share a taxi.
Gold medallists. Even at Atlanta, we got 15 medals which would have been tied 17th if the ranking was done on medal count rather than golds.
Well small minibus....
I believe the boffins prediction for 2024 was Team GB would get similar number of medals, 60+, but fewer of those would be gold.
We've been trending down since 2012, which is perhaps unsurprising. Think we did the analysis in 2021 that showed Britain is pretty good at medalling in a lot of different sports.
There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.
Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.
Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.
Give your head a wobble.
@kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him
There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
Thanks.
What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.
People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.
People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
I can see your point, but that's always been the case. See black people being blamed for crimes - or the fear of crimes - back as far as the 1960s, well before 'unchecked mass immigration'.
In the minds of the brainless, it's always the fault of 'others'; and that's nearly always minorities.
But what if, occasionally, the “bigoted viewpoint” is true?
Rape and violence have gone through the roof in Sweden. And it isn’t thanks to “ethnic swedes” taking up bombing
The way I tend to think of it is, I remember how racist, homophobic and misogynistic the UK was as recently as the 90s, which I remember all too well. Then I consider that, even if we politely say that cultures from developing nations tend to be less enlightened, even if they're 30 years behind us from a cultural perspective, imagine how much racism, homophobia and misogyny we're importing.
Fwiw, the worst things i have heard said in recent years have been from a Christian Nigerian (on the subject of homosexuality) and an Indian chap (no idea what his religion was) about women who should get back to the kitchen.
In fairness, I have also heard these awful views espoused by white people whose parents' parents' parents' were born here. But I really did feel like for most of the 2000s we were making progress. I'm less certain of that now.
Another 4th for the UK in the women's team final for gymnastics. There have been some exceptional results but this is still coming across to me as the nearly games so far.
We are due a bad one. I predict 8th or 9th. Still bloody impressive
And given that nearly half our competitors get the advantage of the extra coaching and facilities available in private education and the stupid, self destructive VAT policy it isn't looking quite so good for the future either.
There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.
Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.
Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.
Give your head a wobble.
@kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him
There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
Thanks.
What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.
People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.
People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
It was me on the previous thread:
"Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.
Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.
However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.
However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.
What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.
Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
Potential ecological fallacy there.
I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
Another 4th for the UK in the women's team final for gymnastics. There have been some exceptional results but this is still coming across to me as the nearly games so far.
We are due a bad one. I predict 8th or 9th. Still bloody impressive
Pre lottery a bad one was when the medalists could all share a taxi.
Gold medallists. Even at Atlanta, we got 15 medals which would have been tied 17th if the ranking was done on medal count rather than golds.
Well small minibus....
I believe the boffins prediction for 2024 was Team GB would get similar number of medals, 60+, but fewer of those would be gold.
We've been trending down since 2012, which is perhaps unsurprising. Think we did the analysis in 2021 that showed Britain is pretty good at medalling in a lot of different sports.
The way the funding is allocated had changed a lot. There are sports and events Team GB don't even really try at now and receive little to no money. Thr criticism is that it is perhaps too targetted and feedback loop is too strong.
Lozza Fox is getting involved, talking about the need 'to permanently remove Islam from Great Britain. Completely and entirely'.
The rest of us are just thinking of how beneficial it would be for him to be completely permanently removed from public discourse.
He clearly needs to raise some money given that Lozza managed to open up a whole new set of libel claims last Friday. Won’t go into the details for obvious reasons
Did he ?
Oops !!
Another lot? Needs to ask the Leeanderthal Man how he handled it from the other side. Learn the lesson of the first pratfall, and read the First Law of Holes.
Oh hang on, I was thinking of Joey vs JV, not Lozza the Kneejerk.
But depending on who Lozza has gone for, it may be good for some charities in due course.
Joey has more trouble ahead for posts about Eni Aluko. You don’t have to be a fan of Vine to think the posts making those foul claims about him which I won’t repeat were disgusting.
Lee Anderson was never sued by Jack Monroe and the 12 month window expired.
There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.
Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.
Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.
Give your head a wobble.
@kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him
There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
Thanks.
What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.
People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.
People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
I can see your point, but that's always been the case. See black people being blamed for crimes - or the fear of crimes - back as far as the 1960s, well before 'unchecked mass immigration'.
In the minds of the brainless, it's always the fault of 'others'; and that's nearly always minorities.
But what if, occasionally, the “bigoted viewpoint” is true?
Rape and violence have gone through the roof in Sweden. And it isn’t thanks to “ethnic swedes” taking up bombing
The way I tend to think of it is, I remember how racist, homophobic and misogynistic the UK was as recently as the 90s, which I remember all too well. Then I consider that, even if we politely say that cultures from developing nations tend to be less enlightened, even if they're 30 years behind us from a cultural perspective, imagine how much racism, homophobia and misogyny we're importing.
Fwiw, the worst things i have heard said in recent years have been from a Christian Nigerian (on the subject of homosexuality) and an Indian chap (no idea what his religion was) about women who should get back to the kitchen.
In fairness, I have also heard these awful views espoused by white people whose parents' parents' parents' were born here. But I really did feel like for most of the 2000s we were making progress. I'm less certain of that now.
What's being lost is the sense that the direction of travel was one-way only and it was inevitable that others would 'catch up', so therefore any difficulties in the short-term could be dismissed as teething troubles that would be overcome with time.
Instead the future looks much more uncertain and unpredictable.
Lozza Fox is getting involved, talking about the need 'to permanently remove Islam from Great Britain. Completely and entirely'.
The rest of us are just thinking of how beneficial it would be for him to be completely permanently removed from public discourse.
He clearly needs to raise some money given that Lozza managed to open up a whole new set of libel claims last Friday. Won’t go into the details for obvious reasons
Did he ?
Oops !!
Another lot? Needs to ask the Leeanderthal Man how he handled it from the other side. Learn the lesson of the first pratfall, and read the First Law of Holes.
Oh hang on, I was thinking of Joey vs JV, not Lozza the Kneejerk.
But depending on who Lozza has gone for, it may be good for some charities in due course.
Joey has more trouble ahead for posts about Eni Aluko. You don’t have to be a fan of Vine to think the posts making those foul claims about him which I won’t repeat were disgusting.
Lee Anderson was never sued by Jack Monroe and the 12 month window expired.
I am no lawyer, but the Eni Aluko ones seemed mean but obviously a joke. If Jimmy Carr said it you wouldn't think anymore about it. The Vine ones you can see why and he was stupid not to just apologize from the start.
I see people are reading too much into why the PM was booed at Southport.
Some people are twats. That is all.
I would just say that some of the things said and the speculation is not being respectful to those poor children and their parents who must be in unbearable pain
Personally I think we should say a silent prayer for everyone and wait for the full story to emerge in time
Division and misleading comments are not acceptable in these circumstances
There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.
Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.
Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.
Give your head a wobble.
@kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him
There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
Thanks.
What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.
People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.
People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
It was me on the previous thread:
"Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.
Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.
However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.
However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.
What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.
Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
Potential ecological fallacy there.
I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
Something not remarked upon enough, in my opinion, is that incel culture is a big part of Islamist terrorism. There's a reason why the Manchester Arena bomber targeted an Ariana Grande concert.
I see people are reading too much into why the PM was booed at Southport.
Some people are twats. That is all.
Good point, frightened people in a community that has lost three children who never reached double figures booing a politician there for a possible photo op are indeed twats. How dare they. I’m sure they value your opinion as much as everyone here does 👍
They should tug their forelocks instead and bask in his radiated magnificence.
I see people are reading too much into why the PM was booed at Southport.
Some people are twats. That is all.
That's being a bit unfair. I was angry about it tis morning (see my post about the death sentence...), but it was an impotent anger. The story was devastating, but I was powerless. If it had happened in my town, I don't know if I'd go to the scene to pay respects. But if I did, and a figure of authority came by, might I boo them? Perhaps. Would I be able to articulate why I was booing them? Probably not.
People in that town will be feeling devastated and more than a little scared. Emotions are understandably high. Give them a break.
I think you have it absolutely nailed on in your earlier post. The future of the UK looks a lot like the history of Northern Ireland.
With a key difference - there's no obvious reason for a war / terrorism.
So we will end up with this ghettoisation (in a few areas - the "future of the UK" is massively overstating it. I can't see it happening in County Durham. Or most of London, actually). But very little bloodshed.
A damn shame but in the grand scheme of things probably not too big a deal.
I hope we don't end up with ghettoisation or race riots, though as others have pointed out downthread, the experience of other countries in Europe suggests otherwise.
But even from a freedom of speech perspective the situation is worrying. The protests outside the school gates in Birmingham from certain fundamentalist religious groups against teaching LGBT equality for example.
I am a very tolerant person. I don't believe everyone in the UK is. But I also believe we are importing a f**kton of intolerance. Pim Fortuyn was probably right.
Lozza Fox is getting involved, talking about the need 'to permanently remove Islam from Great Britain. Completely and entirely'.
The rest of us are just thinking of how beneficial it would be for him to be completely permanently removed from public discourse.
He clearly needs to raise some money given that Lozza managed to open up a whole new set of libel claims last Friday. Won’t go into the details for obvious reasons
Did he ?
Oops !!
Another lot? Needs to ask the Leeanderthal Man how he handled it from the other side. Learn the lesson of the first pratfall, and read the First Law of Holes.
Oh hang on, I was thinking of Joey vs JV, not Lozza the Kneejerk.
But depending on who Lozza has gone for, it may be good for some charities in due course.
Joey has more trouble ahead for posts about Eni Aluko. You don’t have to be a fan of Vine to think the posts making those foul claims about him which I won’t repeat were disgusting.
Lee Anderson was never sued by Jack Monroe and the 12 month window expired.
I am no lawyer, but the Eni Aluko ones seemed mean but obviously a joke. If Jimmy Carr said it you wouldn't think anymore about it. The Vine ones you can see why and he was stupid not to just apologize from the start.
I agree with this and he also did not remove the Vine tweets either. Which added to the problem for him as did, as you say, failing to apologise.
Less than a month in and leftie luvvie Verders being put on the rack but a woman claiming her and her "bed bound" partner will be left choosing between heating and eating after Labour scrapped their fuel allownace...
It's already going down the tubes for the oh-so pius "Knight of the Realm" Kier isn't it? 😂
As I said in response to others and got smeared as racist for my troubles:
"You may not like it but millions of people already furious about the failure to stop illegal immigration (and the billions to feed, clothe and house them) are not looking beyond:.
- assailant (or his parents) originates from Rwanda (check). - Starmer has just stopped illegal immigrants including military aged men being deported to Rwanda (check) QED.
Because millions don't look beyond the headlines.
It was very unwise of Starmer to can Rwanda before a credible alternative had been put in place. As a result he owns anything that goes wrong in the meantime,"
My final point, as you really can't be allowed to post such drivel without comment.
You have conflated at least two stories, a despicable act resulting in tragedy and the Rwanda policy.. The only link to Rwanda from this angle is a Cardiff born teenage murderer whose parents happened to come from Rwanda at least seventeen years ago.
There is a twitter campaign by racists underway implying (what you are tacitly suggesting) that small boat illegal migrants are responsible for this depraved crime. You are barely better. Simply vile.
Oh dear, more messenger shooting.
But you're not the messenger, you are the storyteller. A story that you have crafted from bullshit.
Anyway, I'll leave it there. Enjoy your trolling.
no he's the messenger. He's not saying it's right that people are and have conflated the two he's simply giving an explanation why that might be the case.
There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.
Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.
Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.
Give your head a wobble.
@kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him
There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
Thanks.
What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.
People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.
People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
I can see your point, but that's always been the case. See black people being blamed for crimes - or the fear of crimes - back as far as the 1960s, well before 'unchecked mass immigration'.
In the minds of the brainless, it's always the fault of 'others'; and that's nearly always minorities.
But what if, occasionally, the “bigoted viewpoint” is true?
(snip)
Going around shooting 500 men because they might be paedophiles is not excused if one of them turns out to have been a paedophile, and the other 499 were not.
For all your pathetic screeching about being 'right', your track record of hot takes on incidents is very, very poor.
This is such an embarrassingly stupid remark I am going to do the sporting thing and allow you to delete it before I reply and humiliate you. You’re welcome
Go on. You seem to think that a bigoted view is fine if it is occasionally correct. I'm saying that's stoopid.
I see people are reading too much into why the PM was booed at Southport.
Some people are twats. That is all.
I would just say that some of the things said and the speculation is not being respectful to those poor children and their parents who must be in unbearable pain
Personally I think we should say a silent prayer for everyone and wait for the full story to emerge in time
Division and misleading comments are not acceptable in these circumstances
Well said. There are three dead little girls here. There the victims. Not politicians being heckled or the like.
I see people are reading too much into why the PM was booed at Southport.
Some people are twats. That is all.
Good point, frightened people in a community that has lost three children who never reached double figures booing a politician there for a possible photo op are indeed twats. How dare they. I’m sure they value your opinion as much as everyone here does 👍
They should tug their forelocks instead and bask in his radiated magnificence.
Oh do us a favour and piss off.
It doesn't matter who the PM is, whether it be Starmer, or Sunak, or Cameron (who had almost the exact same thing happen, in almost the exact same circumstances).
Some people are twats either way and they're not "frightened", they're attention-seeking twats who are exploiting a tragedy to be twats.
There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.
Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.
Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.
Give your head a wobble.
@kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him
There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
Thanks.
What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.
People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.
People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
It was me on the previous thread:
"Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.
Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.
However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.
However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.
What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.
Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
Potential ecological fallacy there.
I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
Lozza Fox is getting involved, talking about the need 'to permanently remove Islam from Great Britain. Completely and entirely'.
The rest of us are just thinking of how beneficial it would be for him to be completely permanently removed from public discourse.
He clearly needs to raise some money given that Lozza managed to open up a whole new set of libel claims last Friday. Won’t go into the details for obvious reasons
Did he ?
Oops !!
Another lot? Needs to ask the Leeanderthal Man how he handled it from the other side. Learn the lesson of the first pratfall, and read the First Law of Holes.
Oh hang on, I was thinking of Joey vs JV, not Lozza the Kneejerk.
But depending on who Lozza has gone for, it may be good for some charities in due course.
Joey has more trouble ahead for posts about Eni Aluko. You don’t have to be a fan of Vine to think the posts making those foul claims about him which I won’t repeat were disgusting.
Lee Anderson was never sued by Jack Monroe and the 12 month window expired.
I am no lawyer, but the Eni Aluko ones seemed mean but obviously a joke. If Jimmy Carr said it you wouldn't think anymore about it. The Vine ones you can see why and he was stupid not to just apologize from the start.
He's in trouble for direct messages to Aluko, not the public tweets.
Lozza Fox is getting involved, talking about the need 'to permanently remove Islam from Great Britain. Completely and entirely'.
The rest of us are just thinking of how beneficial it would be for him to be completely permanently removed from public discourse.
He clearly needs to raise some money given that Lozza managed to open up a whole new set of libel claims last Friday. Won’t go into the details for obvious reasons
Did he ?
Oops !!
Another lot? Needs to ask the Leeanderthal Man how he handled it from the other side. Learn the lesson of the first pratfall, and read the First Law of Holes.
Oh hang on, I was thinking of Joey vs JV, not Lozza the Kneejerk.
But depending on who Lozza has gone for, it may be good for some charities in due course.
Joey has more trouble ahead for posts about Eni Aluko. You don’t have to be a fan of Vine to think the posts making those foul claims about him which I won’t repeat were disgusting.
Lee Anderson was never sued by Jack Monroe and the 12 month window expired.
I am no lawyer, but the Eni Aluko ones seemed mean but obviously a joke. If Jimmy Carr said it you wouldn't think anymore about it. The Vine ones you can see why and he was stupid not to just apologize from the start.
He's in trouble for direct messages to Aluko, not the public tweets.
I don’t know who in the Kamala Harris campaign was behind the strategy to call Donald Trump and JD Vance “weird” but I cannot remember the last time something so simple has had the entire right wing this triggered. They are truly punching air. https://x.com/notcapnamerica/status/1818108089607819686
I see people are reading too much into why the PM was booed at Southport.
Some people are twats. That is all.
That's being a bit unfair. I was angry about it tis morning (see my post about the death sentence...), but it was an impotent anger. The story was devastating, but I was powerless. If it had happened in my town, I don't know if I'd go to the scene to pay respects. But if I did, and a figure of authority came by, might I boo them? Perhaps. Would I be able to articulate why I was booing them? Probably not.
People in that town will be feeling devastated and more than a little scared. Emotions are understandably high. Give them a break.
Would you boo someone who came to the scene to pay respects? No, I don't think you would.
Emotions are high I agree, and I don't think those who are seeking to exploit a tragedy are anything other than twats. Those who are sad and paying their respects are not.
Some people's first response to a tragedy is to be sad, have sympathy for the victims and want to find out what actually happened and try to prevent it happening again.
Some people's first response to any tragedy, is to grab it with both hands and try to force it into something its not in order to fit their agenda, ignoring any inconvenient truths that don't fit their agenda.
Badenoch responds robustly to what she says are smears. The Tories need to plump for her if they want to get back in next time I think.
Another blue Lib Dem isn’t going to cut it after the next 5 years. The votes market is going to be for a radically smaller state both economically and socially. And if it comes with a hard edge it will be all the more popular.
I see people are reading too much into why the PM was booed at Southport.
Some people are twats. That is all.
Good point, frightened people in a community that has lost three children who never reached double figures booing a politician there for a possible photo op are indeed twats. How dare they. I’m sure they value your opinion as much as everyone here does 👍
They should tug their forelocks instead and bask in his radiated magnificence.
Oh do us a favour and piss off.
It doesn't matter who the PM is, whether it be Starmer, or Sunak, or Cameron (who had almost the exact same thing happen, in almost the exact same circumstances).
Some people are twats either way and they're not "frightened", they're attention-seeking twats who are exploiting a tragedy to be twats.
Which they're doing, because they are twats.
Nah, I’ll hang around unless TSE decides it’s time for me to get the picture of a Spitfire and a carriage clock, if it’s all the same. Please feel free to ignore my posts.
What sort of knob abuses frightened members for a community that have lost three young girls. Obviously they’re twats and in the wrong for daring not to kiss SKS’s feet for and I’m sure they will take on board your savage condemnation and reflect on it and become the people you demand they become.
Look on the bright side. This will blow,over soon and you will be back,to endless, Ill thought out, pompous rants about housebuilding, Israel and pensions 😂
There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.
Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.
Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.
Give your head a wobble.
@kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him
There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
Thanks.
What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.
People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.
People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
It was me on the previous thread:
"Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.
Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.
However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.
However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.
What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.
Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
Potential ecological fallacy there.
I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
As I said in response to others and got smeared as racist for my troubles:
"You may not like it but millions of people already furious about the failure to stop illegal immigration (and the billions to feed, clothe and house them) are not looking beyond:.
- assailant (or his parents) originates from Rwanda (check). - Starmer has just stopped illegal immigrants including military aged men being deported to Rwanda (check) QED.
Because millions don't look beyond the headlines.
It was very unwise of Starmer to can Rwanda before a credible alternative had been put in place. As a result he owns anything that goes wrong in the meantime,"
My final point, as you really can't be allowed to post such drivel without comment.
You have conflated at least two stories, a despicable act resulting in tragedy and the Rwanda policy.. The only link to Rwanda from this angle is a Cardiff born teenage murderer whose parents happened to come from Rwanda at least seventeen years ago.
There is a twitter campaign by racists underway implying (what you are tacitly suggesting) that small boat illegal migrants are responsible for this depraved crime. You are barely better. Simply vile.
Oh dear, more messenger shooting.
But you're not the messenger, you are the storyteller. A story that you have crafted from bullshit.
Anyway, I'll leave it there. Enjoy your trolling.
no he's the messenger. He's not saying it's right that people are and have conflated the two he's simply giving an explanation why that might be the case.
Badenoch responds robustly to what she says are smears. The Tories need to plump for her if they want to get back in next time I think.
Another blue Lib Dem isn’t going to cut it after the next 5 years. The votes market is going to be for a radically smaller state both economically and socially. And if it comes with a hard edge it will be all the more popular.
I see people are reading too much into why the PM was booed at Southport.
Some people are twats. That is all.
That's being a bit unfair. I was angry about it tis morning (see my post about the death sentence...), but it was an impotent anger. The story was devastating, but I was powerless. If it had happened in my town, I don't know if I'd go to the scene to pay respects. But if I did, and a figure of authority came by, might I boo them? Perhaps. Would I be able to articulate why I was booing them? Probably not.
People in that town will be feeling devastated and more than a little scared. Emotions are understandably high. Give them a break.
Would you boo someone who came to the scene to pay respects? No, I don't think you would.
Emotions are high I agree, and I don't think those who are seeking to exploit a tragedy are anything other than twats. Those who are sad and paying their respects are not.
Some people's first response to a tragedy is to be sad, have sympathy for the victims and want to find out what actually happened and try to prevent it happening again.
Some people's first response to any tragedy, is to grab it with both hands and try to force it into something its not in order to fit their agenda, ignoring any inconvenient truths that don't fit their agenda.
The latter are . . . twats.
If it's local people struggling to process something utterly horrible and horrifying, they deserve some slack. And part of being the adult, the one in charge, is standing there absorbing the incoherent rage that others are experiencing. And from what I've seen, Starmer did that fine. I'm sure that, in this situation, Sunak would have done as well, though he didn't always while PM.
What's not on is political opportunists coming in and saying "this proves what I've said all along", or "I'm not saying this myself, but makes you think , doesn't it?" And as for those extrapolating Starmer's inevitable political demise... pace yourself, darlings. The worse things go now, the more likely you are going to have five years to wait.
Are Labour really going to bring in the school fees VAT in January mid way through a school year?
That feels bizarre to me.
They’re attempting to make it retrospective to this September, but can’t get the legislation through in time.
Which I suspect will lead to a well-funded legal challenge.
Any evidence to back the September claim up?
Because if they were doing that they would have had to do it yesterday and instead all they said January.. (Remember this sort of trick is something I'm very aware of - so the wording yesterday was interesting and carefully created a distinct line)...
Reality is that by implementing it in January and announcing yesterday after the school year and finished it's designed to minimise the number of people able to move schools before September which is probably a relief to both State and Private schools...
Although it does rather mess up people who are already struggling to pay school fees...
So we’ll get a winter of freezing pensioner headlines followed by a January of taking the little darlings out of school/could state schools be overwhelmed headlines. Plus whatever comes down the line in the budget in October.
I don’t think we’ll be seeing much by way of a Labour honeymoon. That doesn’t mean that the Tories are going to suddenly look amazing (they’re not). But it will be interesting to see what the polls are coming out with early next year.
Not optimal… but then I guess they’re getting these hits out of the way early.
I LOL at Labour for the private school fees move.
I think Starmer reckons it'll be another foxhunting ban moment. But foxhunting was directly supported by very few people, and this move will affect many, many more people directly. It'll cheer those who hate people who are richer than them; but dismay many more.
Personally I’m a VAT supremacist, so this is grist to the mill. VAT on everything!
VAT on everything is a fair argument. But this is VAT on something very specific and targeted, mostly for ideological reasons rather than attempting to raise revenue.
It’s red meat to an activist base who think every private school is just like “Boris Johnson’s Eton”.
And it may well work out that Boris Johnson Eton comes out ahead on the changes, and it small / special needs schools that are the ones most effected.
If you want an extra £1bn from rich people there are much easier ways to get it.
Starmer doesn’t give a fuck how much money it raises. It was a high protein plant based meat substitute policy for his base that doesn’t repel centrist dickheads and can't be proved to cost a shitload of cash. He needed his base as hard as a fucking brick to work the GE for him.
It was and is smart politics. All of this wanking off about how much it will raise or cost totally misses the point of it. The lachrymose grief of the bottom half of the bourgeoisie is a splendid by-product, not the prime intent.
And the children with disrupted education, the good teachers now unemployed and the closed businesses?
All for a spiteful and envious policy that will damage the country overall.
And we've got five years of the crap that 20% of the electorate foisted on us.
This could be a re-run of the Wilson administration 1974-1979, just with a bigger majority.
Not really, to have a re-run like that you need a slender majority forcing decisions in a particular direction...
Well with talk like this, they had better deliver. If they don't, it's not entirely impossible to see them losing their majority in five years.
Rayner accuses Badenoch of not understanding why Tories lost election, with housing key factor Rayner starts by wishing Badenoch luck with her leadership bid. She says it was Badenoch’s ambition to be leader of the opposition, not hers.
She says she thinks there are a few things Badenoch “has not understood”.
One is that the Tories lost the election. Another is that they left services in a mess, including failing to meet their housing targets.
She says the Conservatives '“are talking to themselves, not the country”...
OTOH, if they do, then it's going to be a very long stint in opposition for Kemi.
If Labour manage to deliver a Britain in which housing is as affordable as it was for our parents' generation they will deserve a long spell in power. Can't disagree - housing is possibly the biggest issue there is right now.
They won't.
They could of course but the only way to do that is to effectvely nationalise housebuilding and have local councils or Central Government build hundreds of thousands of houses themselves. It won't happen - even though actually it would be a good idea if it did. People continue to refuse tounderstand that the problem with housebuilding is the housebuilders. When prices stagnate they stop building to ensure the prices start rising again.
You're almost there Richard at recognising the problem. So close and yet so far away.
We need to break the oligopoly of the housing developers. Which means planning reform.
It doesn't matter how much planning permission is given out, if its given out to an oligopoly who can constrain supply and competitors can't get involved as getting permission for a tiny number of homes is so difficult.
Getting permission is expensive and laborious which only makes sense if you can divide that cost between a large number of homes, so it doesn't cost as much per home, which only the oligopoly of large developers with expertise at playing the planning game can do.
Get rid of planning permission, let anyone build, and the developers would face competition. If they refuse to build, then anyone else can do so instead. One house at a time, without waiting for permission first.
I see people are reading too much into why the PM was booed at Southport.
Some people are twats. That is all.
That's being a bit unfair. I was angry about it tis morning (see my post about the death sentence...), but it was an impotent anger. The story was devastating, but I was powerless. If it had happened in my town, I don't know if I'd go to the scene to pay respects. But if I did, and a figure of authority came by, might I boo them? Perhaps. Would I be able to articulate why I was booing them? Probably not.
People in that town will be feeling devastated and more than a little scared. Emotions are understandably high. Give them a break.
Would you boo someone who came to the scene to pay respects? No, I don't think you would.
Emotions are high I agree, and I don't think those who are seeking to exploit a tragedy are anything other than twats. Those who are sad and paying their respects are not.
Some people's first response to a tragedy is to be sad, have sympathy for the victims and want to find out what actually happened and try to prevent it happening again.
Some people's first response to any tragedy, is to grab it with both hands and try to force it into something its not in order to fit their agenda, ignoring any inconvenient truths that don't fit their agenda.
The latter are . . . twats.
If it's local people struggling to process something utterly horrible and horrifying, they deserve some slack. And part of being the adult, the one in charge, is standing there absorbing the incoherent rage that others are experiencing. And from what I've seen, Starmer did that fine. I'm sure that, in this situation, Sunak would have done as well, though he didn't always while PM.
What's not on is political opportunists coming in and saying "this proves what I've said all along", or "I'm not saying this myself, but makes you think , doesn't it?" And as for those extrapolating Starmer's inevitable political demise... pace yourself, darlings. The worse things go now, the more likely you are going to have five years to wait.
Yeah, I doubt that any booing happened by or was representative of locals, I suspect its the usual suspects of trouble-makers who find their way to getting attention wherever they can.
Badenoch responds robustly to what she says are smears. The Tories need to plump for her if they want to get back in next time I think.
Another blue Lib Dem isn’t going to cut it after the next 5 years. The votes market is going to be for a radically smaller state both economically and socially. And if it comes with a hard edge it will be all the more popular.
#TeamKemi #LetsDoThis
Let's do this. Let's finish the Tory Party off altogether.
Badenoch responds robustly to what she says are smears. The Tories need to plump for her if they want to get back in next time I think.
Another blue Lib Dem isn’t going to cut it after the next 5 years. The votes market is going to be for a radically smaller state both economically and socially. And if it comes with a hard edge it will be all the more popular.
Let’s be clear: these allegations are smears from former staff who I sacked after they were accused of bullying behaviour, lying about other colleagues to cover up their own failures and general gross incompetence. Intolerable behaviour I would not stand for (2/3)
Would definitely be a red flag in any normal organisation
Are Labour really going to bring in the school fees VAT in January mid way through a school year?
That feels bizarre to me.
They’re attempting to make it retrospective to this September, but can’t get the legislation through in time.
Which I suspect will lead to a well-funded legal challenge.
Any evidence to back the September claim up?
Because if they were doing that they would have had to do it yesterday and instead all they said January.. (Remember this sort of trick is something I'm very aware of - so the wording yesterday was interesting and carefully created a distinct line)...
Reality is that by implementing it in January and announcing yesterday after the school year and finished it's designed to minimise the number of people able to move schools before September which is probably a relief to both State and Private schools...
Although it does rather mess up people who are already struggling to pay school fees...
So we’ll get a winter of freezing pensioner headlines followed by a January of taking the little darlings out of school/could state schools be overwhelmed headlines. Plus whatever comes down the line in the budget in October.
I don’t think we’ll be seeing much by way of a Labour honeymoon. That doesn’t mean that the Tories are going to suddenly look amazing (they’re not). But it will be interesting to see what the polls are coming out with early next year.
Not optimal… but then I guess they’re getting these hits out of the way early.
I LOL at Labour for the private school fees move.
I think Starmer reckons it'll be another foxhunting ban moment. But foxhunting was directly supported by very few people, and this move will affect many, many more people directly. It'll cheer those who hate people who are richer than them; but dismay many more.
Personally I’m a VAT supremacist, so this is grist to the mill. VAT on everything!
VAT on everything is a fair argument. But this is VAT on something very specific and targeted, mostly for ideological reasons rather than attempting to raise revenue.
It’s red meat to an activist base who think every private school is just like “Boris Johnson’s Eton”.
And it may well work out that Boris Johnson Eton comes out ahead on the changes, and it small / special needs schools that are the ones most effected.
If you want an extra £1bn from rich people there are much easier ways to get it.
Starmer doesn’t give a fuck how much money it raises. It was a high protein plant based meat substitute policy for his base that doesn’t repel centrist dickheads and can't be proved to cost a shitload of cash. He needed his base as hard as a fucking brick to work the GE for him.
It was and is smart politics. All of this wanking off about how much it will raise or cost totally misses the point of it. The lachrymose grief of the bottom half of the bourgeoisie is a splendid by-product, not the prime intent.
And the children with disrupted education, the good teachers now unemployed and the closed businesses?
All for a spiteful and envious policy that will damage the country overall.
And we've got five years of the crap that 20% of the electorate foisted on us.
This could be a re-run of the Wilson administration 1974-1979, just with a bigger majority.
Not really, to have a re-run like that you need a slender majority forcing decisions in a particular direction...
Well with talk like this, they had better deliver. If they don't, it's not entirely impossible to see them losing their majority in five years.
Rayner accuses Badenoch of not understanding why Tories lost election, with housing key factor Rayner starts by wishing Badenoch luck with her leadership bid. She says it was Badenoch’s ambition to be leader of the opposition, not hers.
She says she thinks there are a few things Badenoch “has not understood”.
One is that the Tories lost the election. Another is that they left services in a mess, including failing to meet their housing targets.
She says the Conservatives '“are talking to themselves, not the country”...
OTOH, if they do, then it's going to be a very long stint in opposition for Kemi.
If Labour manage to deliver a Britain in which housing is as affordable as it was for our parents' generation they will deserve a long spell in power. Can't disagree - housing is possibly the biggest issue there is right now.
They won't.
They could of course but the only way to do that is to effectvely nationalise housebuilding and have local councils or Central Government build hundreds of thousands of houses themselves. It won't happen - even though actually it would be a good idea if it did. People continue to refuse tounderstand that the problem with housebuilding is the housebuilders. When prices stagnate they stop building to ensure the prices start rising again.
You're almost there Richard at recognising the problem. So close and yet so far away.
We need to break the oligopoly of the housing developers. Which means planning reform.
It doesn't matter how much planning permission is given out, if its given out to an oligopoly who can constrain supply and competitors can't get involved as getting permission for a tiny number of homes is so difficult.
Getting permission is expensive and laborious which only makes sense if you can divide that cost between a large number of homes, so it doesn't cost as much per home, which only the oligopoly of large developers with expertise at playing the planning game can do.
Get rid of planning permission, let anyone build, and the developers would face competition. If they refuse to build, then anyone else can do so instead. One house at a time, without waiting for permission first.
That's really not true. Getting planning permission for the kind of individual development you're talking about is not particularly expensive, and requires less work than building control approval which you're not proposing to do away with.
I see people are reading too much into why the PM was booed at Southport.
Some people are twats. That is all.
Good point, frightened people in a community that has lost three children who never reached double figures booing a politician there for a possible photo op are indeed twats. How dare they. I’m sure they value your opinion as much as everyone here does 👍
They should tug their forelocks instead and bask in his radiated magnificence.
Oh do us a favour and piss off.
It doesn't matter who the PM is, whether it be Starmer, or Sunak, or Cameron (who had almost the exact same thing happen, in almost the exact same circumstances).
Some people are twats either way and they're not "frightened", they're attention-seeking twats who are exploiting a tragedy to be twats.
Which they're doing, because they are twats.
Nah, I’ll hang around unless TSE decides it’s time for me to get the picture of a Spitfire and a carriage clock, if it’s all the same. Please feel free to ignore my posts.
What sort of knob abuses frightened members for a community that have lost three young girls. Obviously they’re twats and in the wrong for daring not to kiss SKS’s feet for and I’m sure they will take on board your savage condemnation and reflect on it and become the people you demand they become.
I have nothing against members of a community.
I have a problem with trouble-makers making their way to a community that's suffered a tragedy in order to cause a scene.
Beshear move looks to have been a flash in the pan. I didn't fade it but I have taken opportunity to back Kelly for 4 (kinda same thing). Available there atm.
Badenoch responds robustly to what she says are smears. The Tories need to plump for her if they want to get back in next time I think.
Another blue Lib Dem isn’t going to cut it after the next 5 years. The votes market is going to be for a radically smaller state both economically and socially. And if it comes with a hard edge it will be all the more popular.
A small state with a "hard edge"? That doesn't sound like a landslide in the making.
Are Labour really going to bring in the school fees VAT in January mid way through a school year?
That feels bizarre to me.
They’re attempting to make it retrospective to this September, but can’t get the legislation through in time.
Which I suspect will lead to a well-funded legal challenge.
Any evidence to back the September claim up?
Because if they were doing that they would have had to do it yesterday and instead all they said January.. (Remember this sort of trick is something I'm very aware of - so the wording yesterday was interesting and carefully created a distinct line)...
Reality is that by implementing it in January and announcing yesterday after the school year and finished it's designed to minimise the number of people able to move schools before September which is probably a relief to both State and Private schools...
Although it does rather mess up people who are already struggling to pay school fees...
So we’ll get a winter of freezing pensioner headlines followed by a January of taking the little darlings out of school/could state schools be overwhelmed headlines. Plus whatever comes down the line in the budget in October.
I don’t think we’ll be seeing much by way of a Labour honeymoon. That doesn’t mean that the Tories are going to suddenly look amazing (they’re not). But it will be interesting to see what the polls are coming out with early next year.
Not optimal… but then I guess they’re getting these hits out of the way early.
I LOL at Labour for the private school fees move.
I think Starmer reckons it'll be another foxhunting ban moment. But foxhunting was directly supported by very few people, and this move will affect many, many more people directly. It'll cheer those who hate people who are richer than them; but dismay many more.
Personally I’m a VAT supremacist, so this is grist to the mill. VAT on everything!
VAT on everything is a fair argument. But this is VAT on something very specific and targeted, mostly for ideological reasons rather than attempting to raise revenue.
It’s red meat to an activist base who think every private school is just like “Boris Johnson’s Eton”.
And it may well work out that Boris Johnson Eton comes out ahead on the changes, and it small / special needs schools that are the ones most effected.
If you want an extra £1bn from rich people there are much easier ways to get it.
Starmer doesn’t give a fuck how much money it raises. It was a high protein plant based meat substitute policy for his base that doesn’t repel centrist dickheads and can't be proved to cost a shitload of cash. He needed his base as hard as a fucking brick to work the GE for him.
It was and is smart politics. All of this wanking off about how much it will raise or cost totally misses the point of it. The lachrymose grief of the bottom half of the bourgeoisie is a splendid by-product, not the prime intent.
And the children with disrupted education, the good teachers now unemployed and the closed businesses?
All for a spiteful and envious policy that will damage the country overall.
And we've got five years of the crap that 20% of the electorate foisted on us.
This could be a re-run of the Wilson administration 1974-1979, just with a bigger majority.
Not really, to have a re-run like that you need a slender majority forcing decisions in a particular direction...
Well with talk like this, they had better deliver. If they don't, it's not entirely impossible to see them losing their majority in five years.
Rayner accuses Badenoch of not understanding why Tories lost election, with housing key factor Rayner starts by wishing Badenoch luck with her leadership bid. She says it was Badenoch’s ambition to be leader of the opposition, not hers.
She says she thinks there are a few things Badenoch “has not understood”.
One is that the Tories lost the election. Another is that they left services in a mess, including failing to meet their housing targets.
She says the Conservatives '“are talking to themselves, not the country”...
OTOH, if they do, then it's going to be a very long stint in opposition for Kemi.
If Labour manage to deliver a Britain in which housing is as affordable as it was for our parents' generation they will deserve a long spell in power. Can't disagree - housing is possibly the biggest issue there is right now.
They won't.
They could of course but the only way to do that is to effectvely nationalise housebuilding and have local councils or Central Government build hundreds of thousands of houses themselves. It won't happen - even though actually it would be a good idea if it did. People continue to refuse tounderstand that the problem with housebuilding is the housebuilders. When prices stagnate they stop building to ensure the prices start rising again.
You're almost there Richard at recognising the problem. So close and yet so far away.
We need to break the oligopoly of the housing developers. Which means planning reform.
It doesn't matter how much planning permission is given out, if its given out to an oligopoly who can constrain supply and competitors can't get involved as getting permission for a tiny number of homes is so difficult.
Getting permission is expensive and laborious which only makes sense if you can divide that cost between a large number of homes, so it doesn't cost as much per home, which only the oligopoly of large developers with expertise at playing the planning game can do.
Get rid of planning permission, let anyone build, and the developers would face competition. If they refuse to build, then anyone else can do so instead. One house at a time, without waiting for permission first.
That's really not true. Getting planning permission for the kind of individual development you're talking about is not particularly expensive, and requires less work than building control approval which you're not proposing to do away with.
Getting planning permission for small developments is expensive, and time consuming, and uncertain. Which is problematic for anyone who needs to be able to plan out a series of work to do.
That's why small developments are a minute fraction of all houses that get permission.
Abolish the requirement for permission, that will cease to be a factor.
Badenoch responds robustly to what she says are smears. The Tories need to plump for her if they want to get back in next time I think.
Another blue Lib Dem isn’t going to cut it after the next 5 years. The votes market is going to be for a radically smaller state both economically and socially. And if it comes with a hard edge it will be all the more popular.
#TeamKemi #LetsDoThis
Let's do this. Let's finish the Tory Party off altogether.
Au contraire. She'll make mincemeat and pale, male and stale Knights Of The Realm "Sir's Keir and Ed" - And take the Tories back to government in 2029.
Badenoch responds robustly to what she says are smears. The Tories need to plump for her if they want to get back in next time I think.
Another blue Lib Dem isn’t going to cut it after the next 5 years. The votes market is going to be for a radically smaller state both economically and socially. And if it comes with a hard edge it will be all the more popular.
#TeamKemi #LetsDoThis
Let's do this. Let's finish the Tory Party off altogether.
Au contraire. She'll make mincemeat and pale, make and stale Knights Of The Realm "Sir's Keir and Ed" - And take the Tories back to government in 2029.
I see people are reading too much into why the PM was booed at Southport.
Some people are twats. That is all.
That's being a bit unfair. I was angry about it tis morning (see my post about the death sentence...), but it was an impotent anger. The story was devastating, but I was powerless. If it had happened in my town, I don't know if I'd go to the scene to pay respects. But if I did, and a figure of authority came by, might I boo them? Perhaps. Would I be able to articulate why I was booing them? Probably not.
People in that town will be feeling devastated and more than a little scared. Emotions are understandably high. Give them a break.
Would you boo someone who came to the scene to pay respects? No, I don't think you would.
Emotions are high I agree, and I don't think those who are seeking to exploit a tragedy are anything other than twats. Those who are sad and paying their respects are not.
Some people's first response to a tragedy is to be sad, have sympathy for the victims and want to find out what actually happened and try to prevent it happening again.
Some people's first response to any tragedy, is to grab it with both hands and try to force it into something its not in order to fit their agenda, ignoring any inconvenient truths that don't fit their agenda.
The latter are . . . twats.
If it's local people struggling to process something utterly horrible and horrifying, they deserve some slack. And part of being the adult, the one in charge, is standing there absorbing the incoherent rage that others are experiencing. And from what I've seen, Starmer did that fine. I'm sure that, in this situation, Sunak would have done as well, though he didn't always while PM.
What's not on is political opportunists coming in and saying "this proves what I've said all along", or "I'm not saying this myself, but makes you think , doesn't it?" And as for those extrapolating Starmer's inevitable political demise... pace yourself, darlings. The worse things go now, the more likely you are going to have five years to wait.
Yeah, I doubt that any booing happened by or was representative of locals, I suspect its the usual suspects of trouble-makers who find their way to getting attention wherever they can.
Far-right thugs are now using this tragedy as an excuse for a riot by the sounds of it. As if the town hasn't got enough to cope with already. Vile shitheads.
There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.
Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.
Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.
Give your head a wobble.
@kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him
There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
Thanks.
What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.
People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.
People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
It was me on the previous thread:
"Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.
Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.
However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.
However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.
What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.
Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
Ok so wait, you’re allowed to wildly speculate, but anyone else that does is a racist? Got that
You might need to quote me on that because I don't think that I have accused anyone here of being racist.
Badenoch responds robustly to what she says are smears. The Tories need to plump for her if they want to get back in next time I think.
Another blue Lib Dem isn’t going to cut it after the next 5 years. The votes market is going to be for a radically smaller state both economically and socially. And if it comes with a hard edge it will be all the more popular.
Funny you should mention the Lib Dems.
There are currently 72 Lib Dem seats, pretty much all in traditionally Conservative areas. And Lib Dems are notoriously hard to shift, especially while they're in opposition.
But without those seats, how the flip do the Conservatives get a majority? Isn't it the equivalent of the blockage that the SNP placed on Labour during the 2010s?
Are Labour really going to bring in the school fees VAT in January mid way through a school year?
That feels bizarre to me.
They’re attempting to make it retrospective to this September, but can’t get the legislation through in time.
Which I suspect will lead to a well-funded legal challenge.
Any evidence to back the September claim up?
Because if they were doing that they would have had to do it yesterday and instead all they said January.. (Remember this sort of trick is something I'm very aware of - so the wording yesterday was interesting and carefully created a distinct line)...
Reality is that by implementing it in January and announcing yesterday after the school year and finished it's designed to minimise the number of people able to move schools before September which is probably a relief to both State and Private schools...
Although it does rather mess up people who are already struggling to pay school fees...
So we’ll get a winter of freezing pensioner headlines followed by a January of taking the little darlings out of school/could state schools be overwhelmed headlines. Plus whatever comes down the line in the budget in October.
I don’t think we’ll be seeing much by way of a Labour honeymoon. That doesn’t mean that the Tories are going to suddenly look amazing (they’re not). But it will be interesting to see what the polls are coming out with early next year.
Not optimal… but then I guess they’re getting these hits out of the way early.
I LOL at Labour for the private school fees move.
I think Starmer reckons it'll be another foxhunting ban moment. But foxhunting was directly supported by very few people, and this move will affect many, many more people directly. It'll cheer those who hate people who are richer than them; but dismay many more.
Personally I’m a VAT supremacist, so this is grist to the mill. VAT on everything!
VAT on everything is a fair argument. But this is VAT on something very specific and targeted, mostly for ideological reasons rather than attempting to raise revenue.
It’s red meat to an activist base who think every private school is just like “Boris Johnson’s Eton”.
And it may well work out that Boris Johnson Eton comes out ahead on the changes, and it small / special needs schools that are the ones most effected.
If you want an extra £1bn from rich people there are much easier ways to get it.
Starmer doesn’t give a fuck how much money it raises. It was a high protein plant based meat substitute policy for his base that doesn’t repel centrist dickheads and can't be proved to cost a shitload of cash. He needed his base as hard as a fucking brick to work the GE for him.
It was and is smart politics. All of this wanking off about how much it will raise or cost totally misses the point of it. The lachrymose grief of the bottom half of the bourgeoisie is a splendid by-product, not the prime intent.
And the children with disrupted education, the good teachers now unemployed and the closed businesses?
All for a spiteful and envious policy that will damage the country overall.
And we've got five years of the crap that 20% of the electorate foisted on us.
This could be a re-run of the Wilson administration 1974-1979, just with a bigger majority.
Not really, to have a re-run like that you need a slender majority forcing decisions in a particular direction...
Well with talk like this, they had better deliver. If they don't, it's not entirely impossible to see them losing their majority in five years.
Rayner accuses Badenoch of not understanding why Tories lost election, with housing key factor Rayner starts by wishing Badenoch luck with her leadership bid. She says it was Badenoch’s ambition to be leader of the opposition, not hers.
She says she thinks there are a few things Badenoch “has not understood”.
One is that the Tories lost the election. Another is that they left services in a mess, including failing to meet their housing targets.
She says the Conservatives '“are talking to themselves, not the country”...
OTOH, if they do, then it's going to be a very long stint in opposition for Kemi.
If Labour manage to deliver a Britain in which housing is as affordable as it was for our parents' generation they will deserve a long spell in power. Can't disagree - housing is possibly the biggest issue there is right now.
They won't.
They could of course but the only way to do that is to effectvely nationalise housebuilding and have local councils or Central Government build hundreds of thousands of houses themselves. It won't happen - even though actually it would be a good idea if it did. People continue to refuse tounderstand that the problem with housebuilding is the housebuilders. When prices stagnate they stop building to ensure the prices start rising again.
You're almost there Richard at recognising the problem. So close and yet so far away.
We need to break the oligopoly of the housing developers. Which means planning reform.
It doesn't matter how much planning permission is given out, if its given out to an oligopoly who can constrain supply and competitors can't get involved as getting permission for a tiny number of homes is so difficult.
Getting permission is expensive and laborious which only makes sense if you can divide that cost between a large number of homes, so it doesn't cost as much per home, which only the oligopoly of large developers with expertise at playing the planning game can do.
Get rid of planning permission, let anyone build, and the developers would face competition. If they refuse to build, then anyone else can do so instead. One house at a time, without waiting for permission first.
That's really not true. Getting planning permission for the kind of individual development you're talking about is not particularly expensive, and requires less work than building control approval which you're not proposing to do away with.
Getting planning permission for small developments is expensive, and time consuming, and uncertain. Which is problematic for anyone who needs to be able to plan out a series of work to do.
That's why small developments are a minute fraction of all houses that get permission.
Abolish the requirement for permission, that will cease to be a factor.
There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.
Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.
Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.
Give your head a wobble.
@kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him
There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
Thanks.
What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.
People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.
People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
It was me on the previous thread:
"Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.
Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.
However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.
However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.
What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.
Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
Potential ecological fallacy there.
I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
Tate is Muslim, these days, so he claims. Not exactly Bin Laden though.
There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.
Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.
Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.
Give your head a wobble.
@kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him
There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
Thanks.
What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.
People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.
People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
It was me on the previous thread:
"Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.
Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.
However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.
However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.
What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.
Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
Potential ecological fallacy there.
I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
Obviously I'm not going to share it but I'm now 99% sure of the name, address and close relatives of the culprit.
Badenoch responds robustly to what she says are smears. The Tories need to plump for her if they want to get back in next time I think.
Another blue Lib Dem isn’t going to cut it after the next 5 years. The votes market is going to be for a radically smaller state both economically and socially. And if it comes with a hard edge it will be all the more popular.
Let’s be clear: these allegations are smears from former staff who I sacked after they were accused of bullying behaviour, lying about other colleagues to cover up their own failures and general gross incompetence. Intolerable behaviour I would not stand for (2/3)
Would definitely be a red flag in any normal organisation
This reported account of her spokesperson in the Guardian is a little different from “I sacked..”:
.. A spokesperson for Badenoch said the allegations were “completely false and a flagrant smear”. They confirmed that the business secretary “had to let go of” some senior officials and suggested she had found examples of “underperformance, complaints and bad behaviour” within her department. They added that she has “high standards and expectations….
Are Labour really going to bring in the school fees VAT in January mid way through a school year?
That feels bizarre to me.
They’re attempting to make it retrospective to this September, but can’t get the legislation through in time.
Which I suspect will lead to a well-funded legal challenge.
Any evidence to back the September claim up?
Because if they were doing that they would have had to do it yesterday and instead all they said January.. (Remember this sort of trick is something I'm very aware of - so the wording yesterday was interesting and carefully created a distinct line)...
Reality is that by implementing it in January and announcing yesterday after the school year and finished it's designed to minimise the number of people able to move schools before September which is probably a relief to both State and Private schools...
Although it does rather mess up people who are already struggling to pay school fees...
So we’ll get a winter of freezing pensioner headlines followed by a January of taking the little darlings out of school/could state schools be overwhelmed headlines. Plus whatever comes down the line in the budget in October.
I don’t think we’ll be seeing much by way of a Labour honeymoon. That doesn’t mean that the Tories are going to suddenly look amazing (they’re not). But it will be interesting to see what the polls are coming out with early next year.
Not optimal… but then I guess they’re getting these hits out of the way early.
I LOL at Labour for the private school fees move.
I think Starmer reckons it'll be another foxhunting ban moment. But foxhunting was directly supported by very few people, and this move will affect many, many more people directly. It'll cheer those who hate people who are richer than them; but dismay many more.
Personally I’m a VAT supremacist, so this is grist to the mill. VAT on everything!
VAT on everything is a fair argument. But this is VAT on something very specific and targeted, mostly for ideological reasons rather than attempting to raise revenue.
It’s red meat to an activist base who think every private school is just like “Boris Johnson’s Eton”.
And it may well work out that Boris Johnson Eton comes out ahead on the changes, and it small / special needs schools that are the ones most effected.
If you want an extra £1bn from rich people there are much easier ways to get it.
Starmer doesn’t give a fuck how much money it raises. It was a high protein plant based meat substitute policy for his base that doesn’t repel centrist dickheads and can't be proved to cost a shitload of cash. He needed his base as hard as a fucking brick to work the GE for him.
It was and is smart politics. All of this wanking off about how much it will raise or cost totally misses the point of it. The lachrymose grief of the bottom half of the bourgeoisie is a splendid by-product, not the prime intent.
And the children with disrupted education, the good teachers now unemployed and the closed businesses?
All for a spiteful and envious policy that will damage the country overall.
And we've got five years of the crap that 20% of the electorate foisted on us.
This could be a re-run of the Wilson administration 1974-1979, just with a bigger majority.
Not really, to have a re-run like that you need a slender majority forcing decisions in a particular direction...
Well with talk like this, they had better deliver. If they don't, it's not entirely impossible to see them losing their majority in five years.
Rayner accuses Badenoch of not understanding why Tories lost election, with housing key factor Rayner starts by wishing Badenoch luck with her leadership bid. She says it was Badenoch’s ambition to be leader of the opposition, not hers.
She says she thinks there are a few things Badenoch “has not understood”.
One is that the Tories lost the election. Another is that they left services in a mess, including failing to meet their housing targets.
She says the Conservatives '“are talking to themselves, not the country”...
OTOH, if they do, then it's going to be a very long stint in opposition for Kemi.
If Labour manage to deliver a Britain in which housing is as affordable as it was for our parents' generation they will deserve a long spell in power. Can't disagree - housing is possibly the biggest issue there is right now.
They won't.
They could of course but the only way to do that is to effectvely nationalise housebuilding and have local councils or Central Government build hundreds of thousands of houses themselves. It won't happen - even though actually it would be a good idea if it did. People continue to refuse tounderstand that the problem with housebuilding is the housebuilders. When prices stagnate they stop building to ensure the prices start rising again.
You're almost there Richard at recognising the problem. So close and yet so far away.
We need to break the oligopoly of the housing developers. Which means planning reform.
It doesn't matter how much planning permission is given out, if its given out to an oligopoly who can constrain supply and competitors can't get involved as getting permission for a tiny number of homes is so difficult.
Getting permission is expensive and laborious which only makes sense if you can divide that cost between a large number of homes, so it doesn't cost as much per home, which only the oligopoly of large developers with expertise at playing the planning game can do.
Get rid of planning permission, let anyone build, and the developers would face competition. If they refuse to build, then anyone else can do so instead. One house at a time, without waiting for permission first.
That's really not true. Getting planning permission for the kind of individual development you're talking about is not particularly expensive, and requires less work than building control approval which you're not proposing to do away with.
Getting planning permission for small developments is expensive, and time consuming, and uncertain. Which is problematic for anyone who needs to be able to plan out a series of work to do.
That's why small developments are a minute fraction of all houses that get permission.
Abolish the requirement for permission, that will cease to be a factor.
I propose abolishing asking permission, while maintaining building regulations.
Anyone who wants to build, within legal regulations, should be able to do so, no questions asked, without asking permission first. Just hire some builders and start work without speaking to any neighbours or Council about it.
We should go by the typical English attitude elsewhere that anything that is not forbidden is permitted.
Badenoch responds robustly to what she says are smears. The Tories need to plump for her if they want to get back in next time I think.
Another blue Lib Dem isn’t going to cut it after the next 5 years. The votes market is going to be for a radically smaller state both economically and socially. And if it comes with a hard edge it will be all the more popular.
A small state with a "hard edge"? That doesn't sound like a landslide in the making.
The Conservatives are moving to "the reason we failed was that we didn't do our vision properly" phase of defeat grief. See Hague or EdM.
Badenoch responds robustly to what she says are smears. The Tories need to plump for her if they want to get back in next time I think.
Another blue Lib Dem isn’t going to cut it after the next 5 years. The votes market is going to be for a radically smaller state both economically and socially. And if it comes with a hard edge it will be all the more popular.
#TeamKemi #LetsDoThis
Let's do this. Let's finish the Tory Party off altogether.
Au contraire. She'll make mincemeat and pale, make and stale Knights Of The Realm "Sir's Keir and Ed" - And take the Tories back to government in 2029.
Whatever.
Remember you Lib-Dems have pretty much thrown your entire lot in with Labour so you better hope Sir Kier and Rachel aren't as useless as it appears they probably are or you'll be done for along with them in 2029.
It's going to be an interesting five years ahead methinks...
I see people are reading too much into why the PM was booed at Southport.
Some people are twats. That is all.
That's being a bit unfair. I was angry about it tis morning (see my post about the death sentence...), but it was an impotent anger. The story was devastating, but I was powerless. If it had happened in my town, I don't know if I'd go to the scene to pay respects. But if I did, and a figure of authority came by, might I boo them? Perhaps. Would I be able to articulate why I was booing them? Probably not.
People in that town will be feeling devastated and more than a little scared. Emotions are understandably high. Give them a break.
Would you boo someone who came to the scene to pay respects? No, I don't think you would.
Emotions are high I agree, and I don't think those who are seeking to exploit a tragedy are anything other than twats. Those who are sad and paying their respects are not.
Some people's first response to a tragedy is to be sad, have sympathy for the victims and want to find out what actually happened and try to prevent it happening again.
Some people's first response to any tragedy, is to grab it with both hands and try to force it into something its not in order to fit their agenda, ignoring any inconvenient truths that don't fit their agenda.
The latter are . . . twats.
If it's local people struggling to process something utterly horrible and horrifying, they deserve some slack. And part of being the adult, the one in charge, is standing there absorbing the incoherent rage that others are experiencing. And from what I've seen, Starmer did that fine. I'm sure that, in this situation, Sunak would have done as well, though he didn't always while PM.
What's not on is political opportunists coming in and saying "this proves what I've said all along", or "I'm not saying this myself, but makes you think , doesn't it?" And as for those extrapolating Starmer's inevitable political demise... pace yourself, darlings. The worse things go now, the more likely you are going to have five years to wait.
Yeah, I doubt that any booing happened by or was representative of locals, I suspect its the usual suspects of trouble-makers who find their way to getting attention wherever they can.
Far-right thugs are now using this tragedy as an excuse for a riot by the sounds of it. As if the town hasn't got enough to cope with already. Vile shitheads.
When the Roma community of Leeds had two kids taken into care, they burned the neighborhood to the ground. I don't recall you condemning them as "vile shitheads"
In Southport several young children have been butchered, which is far worse. And here you are
Do you EVER realise that you have insane double standards?
Are Labour really going to bring in the school fees VAT in January mid way through a school year?
That feels bizarre to me.
They’re attempting to make it retrospective to this September, but can’t get the legislation through in time.
Which I suspect will lead to a well-funded legal challenge.
Any evidence to back the September claim up?
Because if they were doing that they would have had to do it yesterday and instead all they said January.. (Remember this sort of trick is something I'm very aware of - so the wording yesterday was interesting and carefully created a distinct line)...
Reality is that by implementing it in January and announcing yesterday after the school year and finished it's designed to minimise the number of people able to move schools before September which is probably a relief to both State and Private schools...
Although it does rather mess up people who are already struggling to pay school fees...
So we’ll get a winter of freezing pensioner headlines followed by a January of taking the little darlings out of school/could state schools be overwhelmed headlines. Plus whatever comes down the line in the budget in October.
I don’t think we’ll be seeing much by way of a Labour honeymoon. That doesn’t mean that the Tories are going to suddenly look amazing (they’re not). But it will be interesting to see what the polls are coming out with early next year.
Not optimal… but then I guess they’re getting these hits out of the way early.
I LOL at Labour for the private school fees move.
I think Starmer reckons it'll be another foxhunting ban moment. But foxhunting was directly supported by very few people, and this move will affect many, many more people directly. It'll cheer those who hate people who are richer than them; but dismay many more.
Personally I’m a VAT supremacist, so this is grist to the mill. VAT on everything!
VAT on everything is a fair argument. But this is VAT on something very specific and targeted, mostly for ideological reasons rather than attempting to raise revenue.
It’s red meat to an activist base who think every private school is just like “Boris Johnson’s Eton”.
And it may well work out that Boris Johnson Eton comes out ahead on the changes, and it small / special needs schools that are the ones most effected.
If you want an extra £1bn from rich people there are much easier ways to get it.
Starmer doesn’t give a fuck how much money it raises. It was a high protein plant based meat substitute policy for his base that doesn’t repel centrist dickheads and can't be proved to cost a shitload of cash. He needed his base as hard as a fucking brick to work the GE for him.
It was and is smart politics. All of this wanking off about how much it will raise or cost totally misses the point of it. The lachrymose grief of the bottom half of the bourgeoisie is a splendid by-product, not the prime intent.
And the children with disrupted education, the good teachers now unemployed and the closed businesses?
All for a spiteful and envious policy that will damage the country overall.
And we've got five years of the crap that 20% of the electorate foisted on us.
This could be a re-run of the Wilson administration 1974-1979, just with a bigger majority.
Not really, to have a re-run like that you need a slender majority forcing decisions in a particular direction...
Well with talk like this, they had better deliver. If they don't, it's not entirely impossible to see them losing their majority in five years.
Rayner accuses Badenoch of not understanding why Tories lost election, with housing key factor Rayner starts by wishing Badenoch luck with her leadership bid. She says it was Badenoch’s ambition to be leader of the opposition, not hers.
She says she thinks there are a few things Badenoch “has not understood”.
One is that the Tories lost the election. Another is that they left services in a mess, including failing to meet their housing targets.
She says the Conservatives '“are talking to themselves, not the country”...
OTOH, if they do, then it's going to be a very long stint in opposition for Kemi.
If Labour manage to deliver a Britain in which housing is as affordable as it was for our parents' generation they will deserve a long spell in power. Can't disagree - housing is possibly the biggest issue there is right now.
They won't.
They could of course but the only way to do that is to effectvely nationalise housebuilding and have local councils or Central Government build hundreds of thousands of houses themselves. It won't happen - even though actually it would be a good idea if it did. People continue to refuse tounderstand that the problem with housebuilding is the housebuilders. When prices stagnate they stop building to ensure the prices start rising again.
You're almost there Richard at recognising the problem. So close and yet so far away.
We need to break the oligopoly of the housing developers. Which means planning reform.
It doesn't matter how much planning permission is given out, if its given out to an oligopoly who can constrain supply and competitors can't get involved as getting permission for a tiny number of homes is so difficult.
Getting permission is expensive and laborious which only makes sense if you can divide that cost between a large number of homes, so it doesn't cost as much per home, which only the oligopoly of large developers with expertise at playing the planning game can do.
Get rid of planning permission, let anyone build, and the developers would face competition. If they refuse to build, then anyone else can do so instead. One house at a time, without waiting for permission first.
That's really not true. Getting planning permission for the kind of individual development you're talking about is not particularly expensive, and requires less work than building control approval which you're not proposing to do away with.
Getting planning permission for small developments is expensive, and time consuming, and uncertain. Which is problematic for anyone who needs to be able to plan out a series of work to do.
That's why small developments are a minute fraction of all houses that get permission.
Abolish the requirement for permission, that will cease to be a factor.
I propose abolishing asking permission, while maintaining building regulations.
Anyone who wants to build, within legal regulations, should be able to do so, no questions asked, without asking permission first. Just hire some builders and start work without speaking to any neighbours or Council about it.
We should go by the typical English attitude elsewhere that anything that is not forbidden is permitted.
And back to our example of someone building a Juliet balcony directly facing your garden, you think the neighbour should have no right whatsover to intervene? Their only redress would be to build a wall in front of it?
I see people are reading too much into why the PM was booed at Southport.
Some people are twats. That is all.
That's being a bit unfair. I was angry about it tis morning (see my post about the death sentence...), but it was an impotent anger. The story was devastating, but I was powerless. If it had happened in my town, I don't know if I'd go to the scene to pay respects. But if I did, and a figure of authority came by, might I boo them? Perhaps. Would I be able to articulate why I was booing them? Probably not.
People in that town will be feeling devastated and more than a little scared. Emotions are understandably high. Give them a break.
Would you boo someone who came to the scene to pay respects? No, I don't think you would.
Emotions are high I agree, and I don't think those who are seeking to exploit a tragedy are anything other than twats. Those who are sad and paying their respects are not.
Some people's first response to a tragedy is to be sad, have sympathy for the victims and want to find out what actually happened and try to prevent it happening again.
Some people's first response to any tragedy, is to grab it with both hands and try to force it into something its not in order to fit their agenda, ignoring any inconvenient truths that don't fit their agenda.
The latter are . . . twats.
If it's local people struggling to process something utterly horrible and horrifying, they deserve some slack. And part of being the adult, the one in charge, is standing there absorbing the incoherent rage that others are experiencing. And from what I've seen, Starmer did that fine. I'm sure that, in this situation, Sunak would have done as well, though he didn't always while PM.
What's not on is political opportunists coming in and saying "this proves what I've said all along", or "I'm not saying this myself, but makes you think , doesn't it?" And as for those extrapolating Starmer's inevitable political demise... pace yourself, darlings. The worse things go now, the more likely you are going to have five years to wait.
Yeah, I doubt that any booing happened by or was representative of locals, I suspect its the usual suspects of trouble-makers who find their way to getting attention wherever they can.
Far-right thugs are now using this tragedy as an excuse for a riot by the sounds of it. As if the town hasn't got enough to cope with already. Vile shitheads.
Another expert from the comfort of his armchair hundreds of miles away.
I see people are reading too much into why the PM was booed at Southport.
Some people are twats. That is all.
That's being a bit unfair. I was angry about it tis morning (see my post about the death sentence...), but it was an impotent anger. The story was devastating, but I was powerless. If it had happened in my town, I don't know if I'd go to the scene to pay respects. But if I did, and a figure of authority came by, might I boo them? Perhaps. Would I be able to articulate why I was booing them? Probably not.
People in that town will be feeling devastated and more than a little scared. Emotions are understandably high. Give them a break.
Would you boo someone who came to the scene to pay respects? No, I don't think you would.
Emotions are high I agree, and I don't think those who are seeking to exploit a tragedy are anything other than twats. Those who are sad and paying their respects are not.
Some people's first response to a tragedy is to be sad, have sympathy for the victims and want to find out what actually happened and try to prevent it happening again.
Some people's first response to any tragedy, is to grab it with both hands and try to force it into something its not in order to fit their agenda, ignoring any inconvenient truths that don't fit their agenda.
The latter are . . . twats.
If it's local people struggling to process something utterly horrible and horrifying, they deserve some slack. And part of being the adult, the one in charge, is standing there absorbing the incoherent rage that others are experiencing. And from what I've seen, Starmer did that fine. I'm sure that, in this situation, Sunak would have done as well, though he didn't always while PM.
What's not on is political opportunists coming in and saying "this proves what I've said all along", or "I'm not saying this myself, but makes you think , doesn't it?" And as for those extrapolating Starmer's inevitable political demise... pace yourself, darlings. The worse things go now, the more likely you are going to have five years to wait.
Yeah, I doubt that any booing happened by or was representative of locals, I suspect its the usual suspects of trouble-makers who find their way to getting attention wherever they can.
Far-right thugs are now using this tragedy as an excuse for a riot by the sounds of it. As if the town hasn't got enough to cope with already. Vile shitheads.
Exactly.
Which I described as twats, but your description is equally apt.
They're not "frightened locals", they're dickheads who will travel to anywhere that's had a tragedy in order to cause a scene.
Badenoch responds robustly to what she says are smears. The Tories need to plump for her if they want to get back in next time I think.
Another blue Lib Dem isn’t going to cut it after the next 5 years. The votes market is going to be for a radically smaller state both economically and socially. And if it comes with a hard edge it will be all the more popular.
#TeamKemi #LetsDoThis
Let's do this. Let's finish the Tory Party off altogether.
Au contraire. She'll make mincemeat and pale, make and stale Knights Of The Realm "Sir's Keir and Ed" - And take the Tories back to government in 2029.
Whatever.
Remember you Lib-Dems have pretty much thrown your entire lot in with Labour so you better hope Sir Kier and Rachel aren't as useless as it appears they probably are or you'll be done for along with them in 2029.
It's going to be an interesting five years ahead methinks...
Lozza Fox is getting involved, talking about the need 'to permanently remove Islam from Great Britain. Completely and entirely'.
The rest of us are just thinking of how beneficial it would be for him to be completely permanently removed from public discourse.
He clearly needs to raise some money given that Lozza managed to open up a whole new set of libel claims last Friday. Won’t go into the details for obvious reasons
Did he ?
Oops !!
Another lot? Needs to ask the Leeanderthal Man how he handled it from the other side. Learn the lesson of the first pratfall, and read the First Law of Holes.
Oh hang on, I was thinking of Joey vs JV, not Lozza the Kneejerk.
But depending on who Lozza has gone for, it may be good for some charities in due course.
Joey has more trouble ahead for posts about Eni Aluko. You don’t have to be a fan of Vine to think the posts making those foul claims about him which I won’t repeat were disgusting.
Lee Anderson was never sued by Jack Monroe and the 12 month window expired.
I am no lawyer, but the Eni Aluko ones seemed mean but obviously a joke. If Jimmy Carr said it you wouldn't think anymore about it. The Vine ones you can see why and he was stupid not to just apologize from the start.
He's in trouble for direct messages to Aluko, not the public tweets.
Can you libel someone in a dress text message? How do you prove reputational damage?
Badenoch responds robustly to what she says are smears. The Tories need to plump for her if they want to get back in next time I think.
Another blue Lib Dem isn’t going to cut it after the next 5 years. The votes market is going to be for a radically smaller state both economically and socially. And if it comes with a hard edge it will be all the more popular.
Let’s be clear: these allegations are smears from former staff who I sacked after they were accused of bullying behaviour, lying about other colleagues to cover up their own failures and general gross incompetence. Intolerable behaviour I would not stand for (2/3)
Would definitely be a red flag in any normal organisation
When you link it back to the claims in the Guardian article it looks Badenoch might be handing ammunition to those staff for a humdinger of a unfair dismissal case. Potentially a libel case
She is incapable of normal restraint.
The key is whether she did actually sack these staff for bullying and lying about other staff. Because if she didn't she's in deep trouble.
Are Labour really going to bring in the school fees VAT in January mid way through a school year?
That feels bizarre to me.
They’re attempting to make it retrospective to this September, but can’t get the legislation through in time.
Which I suspect will lead to a well-funded legal challenge.
Any evidence to back the September claim up?
Because if they were doing that they would have had to do it yesterday and instead all they said January.. (Remember this sort of trick is something I'm very aware of - so the wording yesterday was interesting and carefully created a distinct line)...
Reality is that by implementing it in January and announcing yesterday after the school year and finished it's designed to minimise the number of people able to move schools before September which is probably a relief to both State and Private schools...
Although it does rather mess up people who are already struggling to pay school fees...
So we’ll get a winter of freezing pensioner headlines followed by a January of taking the little darlings out of school/could state schools be overwhelmed headlines. Plus whatever comes down the line in the budget in October.
I don’t think we’ll be seeing much by way of a Labour honeymoon. That doesn’t mean that the Tories are going to suddenly look amazing (they’re not). But it will be interesting to see what the polls are coming out with early next year.
Not optimal… but then I guess they’re getting these hits out of the way early.
I LOL at Labour for the private school fees move.
I think Starmer reckons it'll be another foxhunting ban moment. But foxhunting was directly supported by very few people, and this move will affect many, many more people directly. It'll cheer those who hate people who are richer than them; but dismay many more.
Personally I’m a VAT supremacist, so this is grist to the mill. VAT on everything!
VAT on everything is a fair argument. But this is VAT on something very specific and targeted, mostly for ideological reasons rather than attempting to raise revenue.
It’s red meat to an activist base who think every private school is just like “Boris Johnson’s Eton”.
And it may well work out that Boris Johnson Eton comes out ahead on the changes, and it small / special needs schools that are the ones most effected.
If you want an extra £1bn from rich people there are much easier ways to get it.
Starmer doesn’t give a fuck how much money it raises. It was a high protein plant based meat substitute policy for his base that doesn’t repel centrist dickheads and can't be proved to cost a shitload of cash. He needed his base as hard as a fucking brick to work the GE for him.
It was and is smart politics. All of this wanking off about how much it will raise or cost totally misses the point of it. The lachrymose grief of the bottom half of the bourgeoisie is a splendid by-product, not the prime intent.
And the children with disrupted education, the good teachers now unemployed and the closed businesses?
All for a spiteful and envious policy that will damage the country overall.
And we've got five years of the crap that 20% of the electorate foisted on us.
This could be a re-run of the Wilson administration 1974-1979, just with a bigger majority.
Not really, to have a re-run like that you need a slender majority forcing decisions in a particular direction...
Well with talk like this, they had better deliver. If they don't, it's not entirely impossible to see them losing their majority in five years.
Rayner accuses Badenoch of not understanding why Tories lost election, with housing key factor Rayner starts by wishing Badenoch luck with her leadership bid. She says it was Badenoch’s ambition to be leader of the opposition, not hers.
She says she thinks there are a few things Badenoch “has not understood”.
One is that the Tories lost the election. Another is that they left services in a mess, including failing to meet their housing targets.
She says the Conservatives '“are talking to themselves, not the country”...
OTOH, if they do, then it's going to be a very long stint in opposition for Kemi.
If Labour manage to deliver a Britain in which housing is as affordable as it was for our parents' generation they will deserve a long spell in power. Can't disagree - housing is possibly the biggest issue there is right now.
They won't.
They could of course but the only way to do that is to effectvely nationalise housebuilding and have local councils or Central Government build hundreds of thousands of houses themselves. It won't happen - even though actually it would be a good idea if it did. People continue to refuse tounderstand that the problem with housebuilding is the housebuilders. When prices stagnate they stop building to ensure the prices start rising again.
You're almost there Richard at recognising the problem. So close and yet so far away.
We need to break the oligopoly of the housing developers. Which means planning reform.
It doesn't matter how much planning permission is given out, if its given out to an oligopoly who can constrain supply and competitors can't get involved as getting permission for a tiny number of homes is so difficult.
Getting permission is expensive and laborious which only makes sense if you can divide that cost between a large number of homes, so it doesn't cost as much per home, which only the oligopoly of large developers with expertise at playing the planning game can do.
Get rid of planning permission, let anyone build, and the developers would face competition. If they refuse to build, then anyone else can do so instead. One house at a time, without waiting for permission first.
That's really not true. Getting planning permission for the kind of individual development you're talking about is not particularly expensive, and requires less work than building control approval which you're not proposing to do away with.
Getting planning permission for small developments is expensive, and time consuming, and uncertain. Which is problematic for anyone who needs to be able to plan out a series of work to do.
That's why small developments are a minute fraction of all houses that get permission.
Abolish the requirement for permission, that will cease to be a factor.
I propose abolishing asking permission, while maintaining building regulations.
Anyone who wants to build, within legal regulations, should be able to do so, no questions asked, without asking permission first. Just hire some builders and start work without speaking to any neighbours or Council about it.
We should go by the typical English attitude elsewhere that anything that is not forbidden is permitted.
And back to our example of someone building a Juliet balcony directly facing your garden, you think the neighbour should have no right whatsover to intervene? Their only redress would be to build a wall in front of it?
Not sure how many times I have to say yes.
Whatever they want to build, within regulations, on their own land is up to them. So long as it sticks to their land.
Balconies have a tendency to look into other people's gardens. So do windows. I can look directly into both my neighbours gardens from my own window, that's how rows of houses work. They can look into mine too. No big deal. If you want privacy, buy a bigger plot of land.
Badenoch responds robustly to what she says are smears. The Tories need to plump for her if they want to get back in next time I think.
Another blue Lib Dem isn’t going to cut it after the next 5 years. The votes market is going to be for a radically smaller state both economically and socially. And if it comes with a hard edge it will be all the more popular.
#TeamKemi #LetsDoThis
Let's do this. Let's finish the Tory Party off altogether.
Au contraire. She'll make mincemeat and pale, make and stale Knights Of The Realm "Sir's Keir and Ed" - And take the Tories back to government in 2029.
Whatever.
Remember you Lib-Dems have pretty much thrown your entire lot in with Labour so you better hope Sir Kier and Rachel aren't as useless as it appears they probably are or you'll be done for along with them in 2029.
It's going to be an interesting five years ahead methinks...
Is there some secret coalition dossier ?
No, as we have FPTP, but it was all on a nod and wink, right?
I see people are reading too much into why the PM was booed at Southport.
Some people are twats. That is all.
That's being a bit unfair. I was angry about it tis morning (see my post about the death sentence...), but it was an impotent anger. The story was devastating, but I was powerless. If it had happened in my town, I don't know if I'd go to the scene to pay respects. But if I did, and a figure of authority came by, might I boo them? Perhaps. Would I be able to articulate why I was booing them? Probably not.
People in that town will be feeling devastated and more than a little scared. Emotions are understandably high. Give them a break.
Would you boo someone who came to the scene to pay respects? No, I don't think you would.
Emotions are high I agree, and I don't think those who are seeking to exploit a tragedy are anything other than twats. Those who are sad and paying their respects are not.
Some people's first response to a tragedy is to be sad, have sympathy for the victims and want to find out what actually happened and try to prevent it happening again.
Some people's first response to any tragedy, is to grab it with both hands and try to force it into something its not in order to fit their agenda, ignoring any inconvenient truths that don't fit their agenda.
The latter are . . . twats.
If it's local people struggling to process something utterly horrible and horrifying, they deserve some slack. And part of being the adult, the one in charge, is standing there absorbing the incoherent rage that others are experiencing. And from what I've seen, Starmer did that fine. I'm sure that, in this situation, Sunak would have done as well, though he didn't always while PM.
What's not on is political opportunists coming in and saying "this proves what I've said all along", or "I'm not saying this myself, but makes you think , doesn't it?" And as for those extrapolating Starmer's inevitable political demise... pace yourself, darlings. The worse things go now, the more likely you are going to have five years to wait.
Yeah, I doubt that any booing happened by or was representative of locals, I suspect its the usual suspects of trouble-makers who find their way to getting attention wherever they can.
Far-right thugs are now using this tragedy as an excuse for a riot by the sounds of it. As if the town hasn't got enough to cope with already. Vile shitheads.
When the Roma community of Leeds had two kids taken into care, they burned the neighborhood to the ground. I don't recall you condemning them as "vile shitheads"
In Southport several young children have been butchered, which is far worse. And here you are
Do you EVER realise that you have insane double standards?
@Benpointer is being sectarian. He sees the people rioting in Leeds as their shitheads, not our shitheads, and it's for their 'community leaders' to police them.
Badenoch responds robustly to what she says are smears. The Tories need to plump for her if they want to get back in next time I think.
Another blue Lib Dem isn’t going to cut it after the next 5 years. The votes market is going to be for a radically smaller state both economically and socially. And if it comes with a hard edge it will be all the more popular.
#TeamKemi #LetsDoThis
Let's do this. Let's finish the Tory Party off altogether.
Au contraire. She'll make mincemeat and pale, male and stale Knights Of The Realm "Sir's Keir and Ed" - And take the Tories back to government in 2029.
I'm not as confident as you that it'll work but I am totally #TeamKemi. I want to see this happen and if anyone can she can.
Am more emotionally invested in Jenrick losing though. And value atm is with backing Mel and to a lesser extent Cleverly (I've added more up here but regretting backing 7s). Market feels like Jenrick is going to continue to shorten and we can do the traditional "lay the favourite" thing AND be happy when that bastard loses, but I wouldn't be laying him here.
There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.
Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.
Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.
Give your head a wobble.
@kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him
There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
Thanks.
What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.
People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.
People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
It was me on the previous thread:
"Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.
Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.
However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.
However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.
What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.
Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
Potential ecological fallacy there.
I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
Obviously I'm not going to share it but I'm now 99% sure of the name, address and close relatives of the culprit.
I see people are reading too much into why the PM was booed at Southport.
Some people are twats. That is all.
Good point, frightened people in a community that has lost three children who never reached double figures booing a politician there for a possible photo op are indeed twats. How dare they. I’m sure they value your opinion as much as everyone here does 👍
They should tug their forelocks instead and bask in his radiated magnificence.
Oh do us a favour and piss off.
It doesn't matter who the PM is, whether it be Starmer, or Sunak, or Cameron (who had almost the exact same thing happen, in almost the exact same circumstances).
Some people are twats either way and they're not "frightened", they're attention-seeking twats who are exploiting a tragedy to be twats.
Which they're doing, because they are twats.
Nah, I’ll hang around unless TSE decides it’s time for me to get the picture of a Spitfire and a carriage clock, if it’s all the same. Please feel free to ignore my posts.
What sort of knob abuses frightened members for a community that have lost three young girls. Obviously they’re twats and in the wrong for daring not to kiss SKS’s feet for and I’m sure they will take on board your savage condemnation and reflect on it and become the people you demand they become.
I have nothing against members of a community.
I have a problem with trouble-makers making their way to a community that's suffered a tragedy in order to cause a scene.
Does this mean I’m allowed to say. Phew, what a relief.
Apologies. I didn’t realise you were actually there today as an eye witness to verify this.
All is well. Our man on the spot. Aided and abetted by Ben from Dorset.
Now back to posting about Gaza, the state pension, and planning laws 👍
Are Labour really going to bring in the school fees VAT in January mid way through a school year?
That feels bizarre to me.
They’re attempting to make it retrospective to this September, but can’t get the legislation through in time.
Which I suspect will lead to a well-funded legal challenge.
Any evidence to back the September claim up?
Because if they were doing that they would have had to do it yesterday and instead all they said January.. (Remember this sort of trick is something I'm very aware of - so the wording yesterday was interesting and carefully created a distinct line)...
Reality is that by implementing it in January and announcing yesterday after the school year and finished it's designed to minimise the number of people able to move schools before September which is probably a relief to both State and Private schools...
Although it does rather mess up people who are already struggling to pay school fees...
So we’ll get a winter of freezing pensioner headlines followed by a January of taking the little darlings out of school/could state schools be overwhelmed headlines. Plus whatever comes down the line in the budget in October.
I don’t think we’ll be seeing much by way of a Labour honeymoon. That doesn’t mean that the Tories are going to suddenly look amazing (they’re not). But it will be interesting to see what the polls are coming out with early next year.
Not optimal… but then I guess they’re getting these hits out of the way early.
I LOL at Labour for the private school fees move.
I think Starmer reckons it'll be another foxhunting ban moment. But foxhunting was directly supported by very few people, and this move will affect many, many more people directly. It'll cheer those who hate people who are richer than them; but dismay many more.
Personally I’m a VAT supremacist, so this is grist to the mill. VAT on everything!
VAT on everything is a fair argument. But this is VAT on something very specific and targeted, mostly for ideological reasons rather than attempting to raise revenue.
It’s red meat to an activist base who think every private school is just like “Boris Johnson’s Eton”.
And it may well work out that Boris Johnson Eton comes out ahead on the changes, and it small / special needs schools that are the ones most effected.
If you want an extra £1bn from rich people there are much easier ways to get it.
Starmer doesn’t give a fuck how much money it raises. It was a high protein plant based meat substitute policy for his base that doesn’t repel centrist dickheads and can't be proved to cost a shitload of cash. He needed his base as hard as a fucking brick to work the GE for him.
It was and is smart politics. All of this wanking off about how much it will raise or cost totally misses the point of it. The lachrymose grief of the bottom half of the bourgeoisie is a splendid by-product, not the prime intent.
And the children with disrupted education, the good teachers now unemployed and the closed businesses?
All for a spiteful and envious policy that will damage the country overall.
And we've got five years of the crap that 20% of the electorate foisted on us.
This could be a re-run of the Wilson administration 1974-1979, just with a bigger majority.
Not really, to have a re-run like that you need a slender majority forcing decisions in a particular direction...
Well with talk like this, they had better deliver. If they don't, it's not entirely impossible to see them losing their majority in five years.
Rayner accuses Badenoch of not understanding why Tories lost election, with housing key factor Rayner starts by wishing Badenoch luck with her leadership bid. She says it was Badenoch’s ambition to be leader of the opposition, not hers.
She says she thinks there are a few things Badenoch “has not understood”.
One is that the Tories lost the election. Another is that they left services in a mess, including failing to meet their housing targets.
She says the Conservatives '“are talking to themselves, not the country”...
OTOH, if they do, then it's going to be a very long stint in opposition for Kemi.
If Labour manage to deliver a Britain in which housing is as affordable as it was for our parents' generation they will deserve a long spell in power. Can't disagree - housing is possibly the biggest issue there is right now.
They won't.
They could of course but the only way to do that is to effectvely nationalise housebuilding and have local councils or Central Government build hundreds of thousands of houses themselves. It won't happen - even though actually it would be a good idea if it did. People continue to refuse tounderstand that the problem with housebuilding is the housebuilders. When prices stagnate they stop building to ensure the prices start rising again.
You're almost there Richard at recognising the problem. So close and yet so far away.
We need to break the oligopoly of the housing developers. Which means planning reform.
It doesn't matter how much planning permission is given out, if its given out to an oligopoly who can constrain supply and competitors can't get involved as getting permission for a tiny number of homes is so difficult.
Getting permission is expensive and laborious which only makes sense if you can divide that cost between a large number of homes, so it doesn't cost as much per home, which only the oligopoly of large developers with expertise at playing the planning game can do.
Get rid of planning permission, let anyone build, and the developers would face competition. If they refuse to build, then anyone else can do so instead. One house at a time, without waiting for permission first.
That's really not true. Getting planning permission for the kind of individual development you're talking about is not particularly expensive, and requires less work than building control approval which you're not proposing to do away with.
Getting planning permission for small developments is expensive, and time consuming, and uncertain. Which is problematic for anyone who needs to be able to plan out a series of work to do.
That's why small developments are a minute fraction of all houses that get permission.
Abolish the requirement for permission, that will cease to be a factor.
I propose abolishing asking permission, while maintaining building regulations.
Anyone who wants to build, within legal regulations, should be able to do so, no questions asked, without asking permission first. Just hire some builders and start work without speaking to any neighbours or Council about it.
We should go by the typical English attitude elsewhere that anything that is not forbidden is permitted.
Bart, you need to realise that your favoured solution isn’t even in the realms of maybe, for any UK party.
We know what you’d like, but it simply isn’t part of the political debate, and won’t be in this parliament, or the next.
I see people are reading too much into why the PM was booed at Southport.
Some people are twats. That is all.
Good point, frightened people in a community that has lost three children who never reached double figures booing a politician there for a possible photo op are indeed twats. How dare they. I’m sure they value your opinion as much as everyone here does 👍
They should tug their forelocks instead and bask in his radiated magnificence.
Oh do us a favour and piss off.
It doesn't matter who the PM is, whether it be Starmer, or Sunak, or Cameron (who had almost the exact same thing happen, in almost the exact same circumstances).
Some people are twats either way and they're not "frightened", they're attention-seeking twats who are exploiting a tragedy to be twats.
Which they're doing, because they are twats.
Nah, I’ll hang around unless TSE decides it’s time for me to get the picture of a Spitfire and a carriage clock, if it’s all the same. Please feel free to ignore my posts.
What sort of knob abuses frightened members for a community that have lost three young girls. Obviously they’re twats and in the wrong for daring not to kiss SKS’s feet for and I’m sure they will take on board your savage condemnation and reflect on it and become the people you demand they become.
I have nothing against members of a community.
I have a problem with trouble-makers making their way to a community that's suffered a tragedy in order to cause a scene.
Does this mean I’m allowed to say. Phew, what a relief.
Apologies. I didn’t realise you were actually there today as an eye witness to verify this.
All is well. Our man on the spot. Aided and abetted by Ben from Dorset.
Now back to posting about Gaza, the state pension, and planning laws 👍
Don't need to be on the spot, its standard operating procedure for dickheads to travel to scenes of tragedies to pile on for their vile hate.
Are Labour really going to bring in the school fees VAT in January mid way through a school year?
That feels bizarre to me.
They’re attempting to make it retrospective to this September, but can’t get the legislation through in time.
Which I suspect will lead to a well-funded legal challenge.
Any evidence to back the September claim up?
Because if they were doing that they would have had to do it yesterday and instead all they said January.. (Remember this sort of trick is something I'm very aware of - so the wording yesterday was interesting and carefully created a distinct line)...
Reality is that by implementing it in January and announcing yesterday after the school year and finished it's designed to minimise the number of people able to move schools before September which is probably a relief to both State and Private schools...
Although it does rather mess up people who are already struggling to pay school fees...
So we’ll get a winter of freezing pensioner headlines followed by a January of taking the little darlings out of school/could state schools be overwhelmed headlines. Plus whatever comes down the line in the budget in October.
I don’t think we’ll be seeing much by way of a Labour honeymoon. That doesn’t mean that the Tories are going to suddenly look amazing (they’re not). But it will be interesting to see what the polls are coming out with early next year.
Not optimal… but then I guess they’re getting these hits out of the way early.
I LOL at Labour for the private school fees move.
I think Starmer reckons it'll be another foxhunting ban moment. But foxhunting was directly supported by very few people, and this move will affect many, many more people directly. It'll cheer those who hate people who are richer than them; but dismay many more.
Personally I’m a VAT supremacist, so this is grist to the mill. VAT on everything!
VAT on everything is a fair argument. But this is VAT on something very specific and targeted, mostly for ideological reasons rather than attempting to raise revenue.
It’s red meat to an activist base who think every private school is just like “Boris Johnson’s Eton”.
And it may well work out that Boris Johnson Eton comes out ahead on the changes, and it small / special needs schools that are the ones most effected.
If you want an extra £1bn from rich people there are much easier ways to get it.
Starmer doesn’t give a fuck how much money it raises. It was a high protein plant based meat substitute policy for his base that doesn’t repel centrist dickheads and can't be proved to cost a shitload of cash. He needed his base as hard as a fucking brick to work the GE for him.
It was and is smart politics. All of this wanking off about how much it will raise or cost totally misses the point of it. The lachrymose grief of the bottom half of the bourgeoisie is a splendid by-product, not the prime intent.
And the children with disrupted education, the good teachers now unemployed and the closed businesses?
All for a spiteful and envious policy that will damage the country overall.
And we've got five years of the crap that 20% of the electorate foisted on us.
This could be a re-run of the Wilson administration 1974-1979, just with a bigger majority.
Not really, to have a re-run like that you need a slender majority forcing decisions in a particular direction...
Well with talk like this, they had better deliver. If they don't, it's not entirely impossible to see them losing their majority in five years.
Rayner accuses Badenoch of not understanding why Tories lost election, with housing key factor Rayner starts by wishing Badenoch luck with her leadership bid. She says it was Badenoch’s ambition to be leader of the opposition, not hers.
She says she thinks there are a few things Badenoch “has not understood”.
One is that the Tories lost the election. Another is that they left services in a mess, including failing to meet their housing targets.
She says the Conservatives '“are talking to themselves, not the country”...
OTOH, if they do, then it's going to be a very long stint in opposition for Kemi.
If Labour manage to deliver a Britain in which housing is as affordable as it was for our parents' generation they will deserve a long spell in power. Can't disagree - housing is possibly the biggest issue there is right now.
They won't.
They could of course but the only way to do that is to effectvely nationalise housebuilding and have local councils or Central Government build hundreds of thousands of houses themselves. It won't happen - even though actually it would be a good idea if it did. People continue to refuse tounderstand that the problem with housebuilding is the housebuilders. When prices stagnate they stop building to ensure the prices start rising again.
You're almost there Richard at recognising the problem. So close and yet so far away.
We need to break the oligopoly of the housing developers. Which means planning reform.
It doesn't matter how much planning permission is given out, if its given out to an oligopoly who can constrain supply and competitors can't get involved as getting permission for a tiny number of homes is so difficult.
Getting permission is expensive and laborious which only makes sense if you can divide that cost between a large number of homes, so it doesn't cost as much per home, which only the oligopoly of large developers with expertise at playing the planning game can do.
Get rid of planning permission, let anyone build, and the developers would face competition. If they refuse to build, then anyone else can do so instead. One house at a time, without waiting for permission first.
That's really not true. Getting planning permission for the kind of individual development you're talking about is not particularly expensive, and requires less work than building control approval which you're not proposing to do away with.
Getting planning permission for small developments is expensive, and time consuming, and uncertain. Which is problematic for anyone who needs to be able to plan out a series of work to do.
That's why small developments are a minute fraction of all houses that get permission.
Abolish the requirement for permission, that will cease to be a factor.
I propose abolishing asking permission, while maintaining building regulations.
Anyone who wants to build, within legal regulations, should be able to do so, no questions asked, without asking permission first. Just hire some builders and start work without speaking to any neighbours or Council about it.
We should go by the typical English attitude elsewhere that anything that is not forbidden is permitted.
And back to our example of someone building a Juliet balcony directly facing your garden, you think the neighbour should have no right whatsover to intervene? Their only redress would be to build a wall in front of it?
Not sure how many times I have to say yes.
Whatever they want to build, within regulations, on their own land is up to them. So long as it sticks to their land.
Balconies have a tendency to look into other people's gardens. So do windows. I can look directly into both my neighbours gardens from my own window, that's how rows of houses work. They can look into mine too. No big deal. If you want privacy, buy a bigger plot of land.
People who obsessed with not "being overlooked" have always given me the creeps. Can't explain why.
Are Labour really going to bring in the school fees VAT in January mid way through a school year?
That feels bizarre to me.
They’re attempting to make it retrospective to this September, but can’t get the legislation through in time.
Which I suspect will lead to a well-funded legal challenge.
Any evidence to back the September claim up?
Because if they were doing that they would have had to do it yesterday and instead all they said January.. (Remember this sort of trick is something I'm very aware of - so the wording yesterday was interesting and carefully created a distinct line)...
Reality is that by implementing it in January and announcing yesterday after the school year and finished it's designed to minimise the number of people able to move schools before September which is probably a relief to both State and Private schools...
Although it does rather mess up people who are already struggling to pay school fees...
So we’ll get a winter of freezing pensioner headlines followed by a January of taking the little darlings out of school/could state schools be overwhelmed headlines. Plus whatever comes down the line in the budget in October.
I don’t think we’ll be seeing much by way of a Labour honeymoon. That doesn’t mean that the Tories are going to suddenly look amazing (they’re not). But it will be interesting to see what the polls are coming out with early next year.
Not optimal… but then I guess they’re getting these hits out of the way early.
I LOL at Labour for the private school fees move.
I think Starmer reckons it'll be another foxhunting ban moment. But foxhunting was directly supported by very few people, and this move will affect many, many more people directly. It'll cheer those who hate people who are richer than them; but dismay many more.
Personally I’m a VAT supremacist, so this is grist to the mill. VAT on everything!
VAT on everything is a fair argument. But this is VAT on something very specific and targeted, mostly for ideological reasons rather than attempting to raise revenue.
It’s red meat to an activist base who think every private school is just like “Boris Johnson’s Eton”.
And it may well work out that Boris Johnson Eton comes out ahead on the changes, and it small / special needs schools that are the ones most effected.
If you want an extra £1bn from rich people there are much easier ways to get it.
Starmer doesn’t give a fuck how much money it raises. It was a high protein plant based meat substitute policy for his base that doesn’t repel centrist dickheads and can't be proved to cost a shitload of cash. He needed his base as hard as a fucking brick to work the GE for him.
It was and is smart politics. All of this wanking off about how much it will raise or cost totally misses the point of it. The lachrymose grief of the bottom half of the bourgeoisie is a splendid by-product, not the prime intent.
And the children with disrupted education, the good teachers now unemployed and the closed businesses?
All for a spiteful and envious policy that will damage the country overall.
And we've got five years of the crap that 20% of the electorate foisted on us.
This could be a re-run of the Wilson administration 1974-1979, just with a bigger majority.
Not really, to have a re-run like that you need a slender majority forcing decisions in a particular direction...
Well with talk like this, they had better deliver. If they don't, it's not entirely impossible to see them losing their majority in five years.
Rayner accuses Badenoch of not understanding why Tories lost election, with housing key factor Rayner starts by wishing Badenoch luck with her leadership bid. She says it was Badenoch’s ambition to be leader of the opposition, not hers.
She says she thinks there are a few things Badenoch “has not understood”.
One is that the Tories lost the election. Another is that they left services in a mess, including failing to meet their housing targets.
She says the Conservatives '“are talking to themselves, not the country”...
OTOH, if they do, then it's going to be a very long stint in opposition for Kemi.
If Labour manage to deliver a Britain in which housing is as affordable as it was for our parents' generation they will deserve a long spell in power. Can't disagree - housing is possibly the biggest issue there is right now.
They won't.
They could of course but the only way to do that is to effectvely nationalise housebuilding and have local councils or Central Government build hundreds of thousands of houses themselves. It won't happen - even though actually it would be a good idea if it did. People continue to refuse tounderstand that the problem with housebuilding is the housebuilders. When prices stagnate they stop building to ensure the prices start rising again.
You're almost there Richard at recognising the problem. So close and yet so far away.
We need to break the oligopoly of the housing developers. Which means planning reform.
It doesn't matter how much planning permission is given out, if its given out to an oligopoly who can constrain supply and competitors can't get involved as getting permission for a tiny number of homes is so difficult.
Getting permission is expensive and laborious which only makes sense if you can divide that cost between a large number of homes, so it doesn't cost as much per home, which only the oligopoly of large developers with expertise at playing the planning game can do.
Get rid of planning permission, let anyone build, and the developers would face competition. If they refuse to build, then anyone else can do so instead. One house at a time, without waiting for permission first.
That's really not true. Getting planning permission for the kind of individual development you're talking about is not particularly expensive, and requires less work than building control approval which you're not proposing to do away with.
Getting planning permission for small developments is expensive, and time consuming, and uncertain. Which is problematic for anyone who needs to be able to plan out a series of work to do.
That's why small developments are a minute fraction of all houses that get permission.
Abolish the requirement for permission, that will cease to be a factor.
As always you fail to price externalities appropriately
Comments
I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
For all your pathetic screeching about being 'right', your track record of hot takes on incidents is very, very poor.
There has always been some friction between locals and immigrants but it feels like until recently, there was an eventual integration. Now, that won't happen, for several reasons.
Firstly, the sheer number of immigrants mean you can create entirely parallel communities who never need to interact with the rest of us, see the Roma riots in Leeds or stroll through Whitechapel and have a natter with Lutfur Rahman if you need convincing.
Secondly, you have the, eh, religious nature of some recent immigrants. *Fundamentalists* are unlikely to change their views or integrate. See the Hasidem in Stoke Newington for details. The difference is, we're not importing hundreds of thousands of Haredi a year, nor do they tend to blow themselves up.
Finally you have diametric opposition. Beyond skin colour (and possibly religion), which I obviously don't share with an immigrant from the West Indies, we probably share a lot of the same interests and desires. We don't dress all that differently. We don't send our children to different schools. Etc. So there are important differences but also significant commonalities. With some immigrants now there is literally no common ground - leading to increased tension and, as you rightly point out, sectarianism.
I think you have it absolutely nailed on in your earlier post. The future of the UK looks a lot like the history of Northern Ireland.
Not sure just where prices are now except that British Gas BFONT their customers with an inverted porcupine, but I paid £2750 for a Baxi Platinum Compact with a 10 year guarantee (+£250 over 5 year guarantee), which included a Magnaclean (iron filing remover), Gas Safety Cert and a supplied shower replaced. Trader below VAT threshold. 2 people 5 hours. That is probably a price for likely repeat business, as she will get ~3 services/safety certs per annum from me, plus be a regular supplier.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1818356844752175574?s=61
Very good Truss interview.
Among other things, it reveals that she was late to the count in Kings Lynn because she'd taken her daughter to McDonalds having been told there was half an hour before announcement was due, and that despite the McDonalds being 7 minutes from the leisure centre, they were delayed when a level crossing came down!
Perhaps even more tragi-comically, she was asked why she didn't give a loser's speech, and responded that the losers don't get speeches in Kings Lynn. In fact she glanced at the returning officer to see if she'd be asked, but they were just ushered off the stage. I could be wrong but I seem to remember her being widely abused for that here.
Anyway, watch the interview - it's Liz at her most punchy and she's very good.
Oh hang on, I was thinking of Joey vs JV, not Lozza the Kneejerk.
But depending on who Lozza has gone for, it may be good for some charities in due course.
So we will end up with this ghettoisation (in a few areas - the "future of the UK" is massively overstating it. I can't see it happening in County Durham. Or most of London, actually). But very little bloodshed.
A damn shame but in the grand scheme of things probably not too big a deal.
Since then had to replace the expansion vessel and plate to plate.
Not a fan of Combi boilers as it’s a pressured system.
Yours is probably made at the Preston site which, when I worked there had a BNP councillor.
I believe the boffins prediction for 2024 was Team GB would get similar number of medals, 60+, but fewer of those would be gold.
Apart from one particular demographic of terrorist they're probably all big drinkers too.
Some people are twats. That is all.
Fwiw, the worst things i have heard said in recent years have been from a Christian Nigerian (on the subject of homosexuality) and an Indian chap (no idea what his religion was) about women who should get back to the kitchen.
In fairness, I have also heard these awful views espoused by white people whose parents' parents' parents' were born here. But I really did feel like for most of the 2000s we were making progress. I'm less certain of that now.
Lee Anderson was never sued by Jack Monroe and the 12 month window expired.
Instead the future looks much more uncertain and unpredictable.
Personally I think we should say a silent prayer for everyone and wait for the full story to emerge in time
Division and misleading comments are not acceptable in these circumstances
They should tug their forelocks instead and bask in his radiated magnificence.
That rabbit looks big enough to be a New Zealand, so it could be lunch.
People in that town will be feeling devastated and more than a little scared. Emotions are understandably high. Give them a break.
But even from a freedom of speech perspective the situation is worrying. The protests outside the school gates in Birmingham from certain fundamentalist religious groups against teaching LGBT equality for example.
I am a very tolerant person. I don't believe everyone in the UK is. But I also believe we are importing a f**kton of intolerance. Pim Fortuyn was probably right.
https://x.com/tedgioia/status/1817966528744268001
It's already going down the tubes for the oh-so pius "Knight of the Realm" Kier isn't it? 😂
Lets get some polls rolling.
https://x.com/addicted2newz/status/1818295363221983444
It doesn't matter who the PM is, whether it be Starmer, or Sunak, or Cameron (who had almost the exact same thing happen, in almost the exact same circumstances).
Some people are twats either way and they're not "frightened", they're attention-seeking twats who are exploiting a tragedy to be twats.
Which they're doing, because they are twats.
https://x.com/notcapnamerica/status/1818108089607819686
“They are accusing JD Vance of having sex with a couch !”
https://x.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1818080207439331602
(They are not.)
The ghost of LBJ is laughing himself to death again.
Emotions are high I agree, and I don't think those who are seeking to exploit a tragedy are anything other than twats. Those who are sad and paying their respects are not.
Some people's first response to a tragedy is to be sad, have sympathy for the victims and want to find out what actually happened and try to prevent it happening again.
Some people's first response to any tragedy, is to grab it with both hands and try to force it into something its not in order to fit their agenda, ignoring any inconvenient truths that don't fit their agenda.
The latter are . . . twats.
Badenoch responds robustly to what she says are smears. The Tories need to plump for her if they want to get back in next time I think.
Another blue Lib Dem isn’t going to cut it after the next 5 years. The votes market is going to be for a radically smaller state both economically and socially. And if it comes with a hard edge it will be all the more popular.
What sort of knob abuses frightened members for a community that have lost three young girls. Obviously they’re twats and in the wrong for daring not to kiss SKS’s feet for and I’m sure they will take on board your savage condemnation and reflect on it and become the people you demand they become.
Look on the bright side. This will blow,over soon and you will be back,to endless, Ill thought out, pompous rants about housebuilding, Israel and pensions 😂
He doesn't bring KY over to her, and even if he did it's only 8 EC votes. He doesn't do anything to win the Rust Belt states.
What's not on is political opportunists coming in and saying "this proves what I've said all along", or "I'm not saying this myself, but makes you think , doesn't it?" And as for those extrapolating Starmer's inevitable political demise... pace yourself, darlings. The worse things go now, the more likely you are going to have five years to wait.
We need to break the oligopoly of the housing developers. Which means planning reform.
It doesn't matter how much planning permission is given out, if its given out to an oligopoly who can constrain supply and competitors can't get involved as getting permission for a tiny number of homes is so difficult.
Getting permission is expensive and laborious which only makes sense if you can divide that cost between a large number of homes, so it doesn't cost as much per home, which only the oligopoly of large developers with expertise at playing the planning game can do.
Get rid of planning permission, let anyone build, and the developers would face competition. If they refuse to build, then anyone else can do so instead. One house at a time, without waiting for permission first.
Would definitely be a red flag in any normal organisation
I have a problem with trouble-makers making their way to a community that's suffered a tragedy in order to cause a scene.
That's why small developments are a minute fraction of all houses that get permission.
Abolish the requirement for permission, that will cease to be a factor.
There are currently 72 Lib Dem seats, pretty much all in traditionally Conservative areas. And Lib Dems are notoriously hard to shift, especially while they're in opposition.
But without those seats, how the flip do the Conservatives get a majority? Isn't it the equivalent of the blockage that the SNP placed on Labour during the 2010s?
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/applications/building-control-applications/building-control
https://x.com/Sam_Dumitriu/status/1818264715652444587
.. A spokesperson for Badenoch said the allegations were “completely false and a flagrant smear”. They confirmed that the business secretary “had to let go of” some senior officials and suggested she had found examples of “underperformance, complaints and bad behaviour” within her department. They added that she has “high standards and expectations….
Anyone who wants to build, within legal regulations, should be able to do so, no questions asked, without asking permission first. Just hire some builders and start work without speaking to any neighbours or Council about it.
We should go by the typical English attitude elsewhere that anything that is not forbidden is permitted.
It's going to be an interesting five years ahead methinks...
In Southport several young children have been butchered, which is far worse. And here you are
Do you EVER realise that you have insane double standards?
Which I described as twats, but your description is equally apt.
They're not "frightened locals", they're dickheads who will travel to anywhere that's had a tragedy in order to cause a scene.
Remember panic stricken leftie Faisal the day after Brexit. There. Is. No. Plan. 😂
This is worrying. The far right gathering outside a mosque in Southport.
She is incapable of normal restraint.
The key is whether she did actually sack these staff for bullying and lying about other staff. Because if she didn't she's in deep trouble.
Whatever they want to build, within regulations, on their own land is up to them. So long as it sticks to their land.
Balconies have a tendency to look into other people's gardens. So do windows. I can look directly into both my neighbours gardens from my own window, that's how rows of houses work. They can look into mine too. No big deal. If you want privacy, buy a bigger plot of land.
Am more emotionally invested in Jenrick losing though. And value atm is with backing Mel and to a lesser extent Cleverly (I've added more up here but regretting backing 7s). Market feels like Jenrick is going to continue to shorten and we can do the traditional "lay the favourite" thing AND be happy when that bastard loses, but I wouldn't be laying him here.
Apologies. I didn’t realise you were actually there today as an eye witness to verify this.
All is well. Our man on the spot. Aided and abetted by Ben from Dorset.
Now back to posting about Gaza, the state pension, and planning laws 👍
We know what you’d like, but it simply isn’t part of the political debate, and won’t be in this parliament, or the next.