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The revenge of the cat ladies? – politicalbetting.com

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  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,897
    edited July 30

    Taz said:

    Three weeks and the honeymoon is over.

    Reeves botches up her tax plan
    Miliand fks up energy policy
    Cooper has riots on the streets
    And Starmer gets booed for a 2 minute visit. ( why did he even bother ? )

    Photo op ??
    Probably but it was pure cynicism . If he was sympathetic he's have made himself visible and for longer.
    Don't tell me they've given you the red eye shift. You've been at it since 6.30 this morning. Get your head down and leave it to one of the youngsters
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128

    tlg86 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Wow I've never seen people so angry at a PM laying flowers for children who have been murdered.


    Liam Gotting
    @GlobalGotting
    Keir Starmer is heckled by onlookers as he lays flowers at the scene of the Southport knife attack.

    @LBC

    @LBCNews

    https://x.com/GlobalGotting/status/1818298681977606316

    Why are they angry at him? Honest question?

    I think it's because it's them immigrants, innit.

    There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.

    Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
    There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.

    Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.

    Give your head a wobble.
    @kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him

    There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
    Thanks.

    What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.

    People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.

    People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
    It was me on the previous thread:

    "Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.

    Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.

    However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.

    However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.

    What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
    Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.

    Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
    Potential ecological fallacy there.

    I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
    My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
    What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
    I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
    But wasn't the Manchester attack because being a young girl at a pop concert was unIslamic?

    FWIW, I don't think your incel theory is any worse any other. No apparent motivation really makes sense.
    Incel is a pretty good theory. He was apparently awkward and introverted, from a somewhat itinerant immigrant Rwandan family. 17 years old, no local girls remotely interested? A Taylor Swift gym and yoga class, staffed by pretty female teachers and young and mainly white girls - that would satisfy his angry sexual inadequacy and sense of social alienation

    However, I would not be surprised by online radicalisation. Perhaps Islamic, perhaps not. He seems to have been quite careful in his targetting. This was not a random spasm, he carefully selected a group of victims at some distance from his home, and in an obscure building. He must have reconnoitred
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was synthetic cannabinoids, tbh. Utterly endemic with the yoof, particularly in deprived towns. Another failure of prohibition.
    Peter Hitchens will approve of this post
    Probably not my last sentence, though!

    Make weed cheap, legal and taxable, and you'd get regulated supply at safe dosages and the tax revenue might even go some way to plugging Rachel Reeves' £20bn hole.

    Prohibition just incentivises unregulated, stronger research chemicals that are easier and cheaper to import in bulk. See also how Fentanyl has taken over the US.

    Spice is a big problem in UK inner cities and small deprived towns, and I don't think most people of my generation or older realise how much more dangerous these drugs are than the weed and pills of our student days.


    What makes you think making the less strong stuff legal will get people to stop using the stronger stuff illegally?
    Because that's how legalisation works.

    How many people go out and buy illegal, stronger booze.

    When its legal, most people just go to the shop and buy what they want.
    LOL

    You do realise how strong standard strength spirits are, do you?

    Thought not.
    Why did you think not? Yes, I do.

    37.5% - 40% abv is typical standard strength spirits.

    Some lower strength spirits and spirit liquers are 15% to 20%

    While other spirits can have higher strengths. The overproof rum I like is 63% ABV but that's not standard strength.

    The clue is that the ABV is printed on the label.

    Under prohibition over 100 proof (aka 50% ABV) was often typical.
    I read that as "ovenproof" !
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Wow I've never seen people so angry at a PM laying flowers for children who have been murdered.


    Liam Gotting
    @GlobalGotting
    Keir Starmer is heckled by onlookers as he lays flowers at the scene of the Southport knife attack.

    @LBC

    @LBCNews

    https://x.com/GlobalGotting/status/1818298681977606316

    Why are they angry at him? Honest question?

    I think it's because it's them immigrants, innit.

    There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.

    Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
    There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.

    Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.

    Give your head a wobble.
    @kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him

    There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
    Thanks.

    What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.

    People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.

    People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
    It was me on the previous thread:

    "Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.

    Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.

    However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.

    However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.

    What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
    Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.

    Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
    Potential ecological fallacy there.

    I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
    My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
    What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
    I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
    But wasn't the Manchester attack because being a young girl at a pop concert was unIslamic?

    FWIW, I don't think your incel theory is any worse any other. No apparent motivation really makes sense.
    Incel is a pretty good theory. He was apparently awkward and introverted, from a somewhat itinerant immigrant Rwandan family. 17 years old, no local girls remotely interested? A Taylor Swift gym and yoga class, staffed by pretty female teachers and young and mainly white girls - that would satisfy his angry sexual inadequacy and sense of social alienation

    However, I would not be surprised by online radicalisation. Perhaps Islamic, perhaps not. He seems to have been quite careful in his targetting. This was not a random spasm, he carefully selected a group of victims at some distance from his home, and in an obscure building. He must have reconnoitred
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was synthetic cannabinoids, tbh. Utterly endemic with the yoof, particularly in deprived towns. Another failure of prohibition.
    Peter Hitchens will approve of this post
    Probably not my last sentence, though!

    Make weed cheap, legal and taxable, and you'd get regulated supply at safe dosages and the tax revenue might even go some way to plugging Rachel Reeves' £20bn hole.

    Prohibition just incentivises unregulated, stronger research chemicals that are easier and cheaper to import in bulk. See also how Fentanyl has taken over the US.

    Spice is a big problem in UK inner cities and small deprived towns, and I don't think most people of my generation or older realise how much more dangerous these drugs are than the weed and pills of our student days.


    When skunk became a thing, nearly everyone of my generation stopped smoking weed.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Cookie said:

    Basically, nothing nakes sense. It seems statistically unlikely this fella was one of the handful of Rwandan muslims - but it seems pretty unlikely he's Rwandan anyway, and apparently he is. So if not Islam, what? Even incels don't tend to get stabby with the preteens. Random madmen tend not to be so focussed.
    Guess we'll find out eventually.

    On the subject of crimes of unclear motive, I'd almost forgotten about the Trump sassytempt. That seems to have had remarkably little follow up.

    Yes. It was billed as the most significant act of violence since Hiroshima. I had entirely forgotten about it until I had to decipher sassytempt.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214
    Cookie said:

    Basically, nothing nakes sense. It seems statistically unlikely this fella was one of the handful of Rwandan muslims - but it seems pretty unlikely he's Rwandan anyway, and apparently he is. So if not Islam, what? Even incels don't tend to get stabby with the preteens. Random madmen tend not to be so focussed.
    Guess we'll find out eventually.

    On the subject of crimes of unclear motive, I'd almost forgotten about the Trump sassytempt. That seems to have had remarkably little follow up.

    Most likely, there aren't any policy implications.

    Paraphrasing Stalin, it's a tragedy not a statistic, and national government should be driven by statistics. In the meantime, the police need to investigate and the rest of us need to weep with those who weep and nothing more.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    kjh said:

    Three weeks and the honeymoon is over.

    Reeves botches up her tax plan
    Miliband fks up energy policy
    Cooper has riots on the streets
    And Starmer gets booed for a 2 minute visit. ( why did he even bother ? )

    And they already have their paws all over the triumphalist shitcanning of Rwanda, the optics of which are horrid in this context.

    Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.
    The pair of you are completely deluded. I am no fan of Labour and fully expect it to go pearshaped at some stage, but really it hasn't yet and won't for awhile. We are still in the honeymoon period and will be for sometime. The fact you think it is all over now just shows how biased you both are.
    I will admit I didn't think it would go tits up this quickly. But it is.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 964
    The same folks saying if you attack police you deserve to get your head stamped on are now saying they have sympathy for the rioters in Southport.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213

    tlg86 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Wow I've never seen people so angry at a PM laying flowers for children who have been murdered.


    Liam Gotting
    @GlobalGotting
    Keir Starmer is heckled by onlookers as he lays flowers at the scene of the Southport knife attack.

    @LBC

    @LBCNews

    https://x.com/GlobalGotting/status/1818298681977606316

    Why are they angry at him? Honest question?

    I think it's because it's them immigrants, innit.

    There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.

    Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
    There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.

    Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.

    Give your head a wobble.
    @kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him

    There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
    Thanks.

    What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.

    People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.

    People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
    It was me on the previous thread:

    "Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.

    Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.

    However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.

    However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.

    What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
    Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.

    Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
    Potential ecological fallacy there.

    I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
    My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
    What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
    I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
    But wasn't the Manchester attack because being a young girl at a pop concert was unIslamic?

    FWIW, I don't think your incel theory is any worse any other. No apparent motivation really makes sense.
    Incel is a pretty good theory. He was apparently awkward and introverted, from a somewhat itinerant immigrant Rwandan family. 17 years old, no local girls remotely interested? A Taylor Swift gym and yoga class, staffed by pretty female teachers and young and mainly white girls - that would satisfy his angry sexual inadequacy and sense of social alienation

    However, I would not be surprised by online radicalisation. Perhaps Islamic, perhaps not. He seems to have been quite careful in his targetting. This was not a random spasm, he carefully selected a group of victims at some distance from his home, and in an obscure building. He must have reconnoitred
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was synthetic cannabinoids, tbh. Utterly endemic with the yoof, particularly in deprived towns. Another failure of prohibition.
    Peter Hitchens will approve of this post
    Probably not my last sentence, though!

    Make weed cheap, legal and taxable, and you'd get regulated supply at safe dosages and the tax revenue might even go some way to plugging Rachel Reeves' £20bn hole.

    Prohibition just incentivises unregulated, stronger research chemicals that are easier and cheaper to import in bulk. See also how Fentanyl has taken over the US.

    Spice is a big problem in UK inner cities and small deprived towns, and I don't think most people of my generation or older realise how much more dangerous these drugs are than the weed and pills of our student days.


    What makes you think making the less strong stuff legal will get people to stop using the stronger stuff illegally?
    Because that's how legalisation works.

    How many people go out and buy illegal, stronger booze.

    When its legal, most people just go to the shop and buy what they want.
    LOL

    You do realise how strong standard strength spirits are, do you?

    Thought not.
    Why did you think not? Yes, I do.

    37.5% - 40% abv is typical standard strength spirits.

    Some lower strength spirits and spirit liquers are 15% to 20%

    While other spirits can have higher strengths. The overproof rum I like is 63% ABV but that's not standard strength.

    The clue is that the ABV is printed on the label.

    Under prohibition over 100 proof (aka 50% ABV) was often typical.
    If you really want, you can buy Polish Pure Spirit - 79.9% by volume.

    Nearly everyone who tries this, doesn't repeat the experiment. The effects do not scale linearly.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Goodness me, Southport. Just seen the news after spending a couple of hours in the swimming pool.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    According to The Telegraph on the spot in Southport:

    Police riot vans and officers are standing guard outside the mosque, amid chants of “No surrender!” and “English till I die!” from sections of the crowd.

    I don't reckon those EDL favourite songs would be chosen by many locals. If I was a parent of one of the murdered girls, I'd be bloody furious at this appropriation of my grief by the far right.

    They sound like Glasgow Rangers songs. Nuff said.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...
    Roger said:

    Taz said:

    Three weeks and the honeymoon is over.

    Reeves botches up her tax plan
    Miliand fks up energy policy
    Cooper has riots on the streets
    And Starmer gets booed for a 2 minute visit. ( why did he even bother ? )

    Photo op ??
    Probably but it was pure cynicism . If he was sympathetic he's have made himself visible and for longer.
    Don't tell me they've given you the red eye shift. You've been at it since 6.30 this morning. Get your head down and leave it to one of the youngsters
    All these Captains of Industry on PB do seem to have a fuckload of time on their hands. No.wonder the country finds itself up Shit Street.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    This is going to end in race war, or a kind of hideous sectarian stand off, a la Northern Ireland, as others have wisely noted

    It is beyond bleak. Mass immigration has been a catastrophic failure, across rhe west, and Britain has got a particularly bad case

    You could argue it is karmic revenge for the British Empire. There is some sense in that, if you are looking down in Olympian Judgment. But it doesn't mean modern Brits, who do not remember Empire and see no beneits of it, will forever meekly accept this state of affairs. They surely will not

    Perhaps even at this eleventh hour the Race War can be averted if we start deporting foreigners instead of putting out the welcome mat.
    Helter Skelter.

    There’s not going to be a race war. Most people rub along just fine. There’s more that unites us than divides us. Perhaps some people need to stop stoking division and blaming communities. Inflaming tensions is not helpful.
    Indeed. It tends to be racists who warn of race wars.

    (like the song though)
    Love the Banshees version.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Cookie said:

    Basically, nothing nakes sense. It seems statistically unlikely this fella was one of the handful of Rwandan muslims - but it seems pretty unlikely he's Rwandan anyway, and apparently he is. So if not Islam, what? Even incels don't tend to get stabby with the preteens. Random madmen tend not to be so focussed.
    Guess we'll find out eventually.

    On the subject of crimes of unclear motive, I'd almost forgotten about the Trump sassytempt. That seems to have had remarkably little follow up.

    The Dunblane killer was pretty focused.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    This is going to end in race war, or a kind of hideous sectarian stand off, a la Northern Ireland, as others have wisely noted

    It is beyond bleak. Mass immigration has been a catastrophic failure, across rhe west, and Britain has got a particularly bad case

    You could argue it is karmic revenge for the British Empire. There is some sense in that, if you are looking down in Olympian Judgment. But it doesn't mean modern Brits, who do not remember Empire and see no beneits of it, will forever meekly accept this state of affairs. They surely will not

    Perhaps even at this eleventh hour the Race War can be averted if we start deporting foreigners instead of putting out the welcome mat.
    Wilkommenskultur has worked so well in Germany

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willkommenskultur

    Ooops

    “Data released by the German Interior Ministry on Tuesday showed that crimes in Europe's largest economy have reached their highest peak since 2016.

    The data, which sparked widespread debate, shows that last year, 41 percent of all crime suspects were foreigners, or persons without German citizenship. Foreigners in German represent only 15 percent of the population.”

    https://english.aawsat.com/world/4958521-german-interior-minister-higher-migration-led-rise-crimes

    At some point, your feeble and effete bisexual social climbing “golf club member” Labour voting faux reality will yield to the cold hard thrust of red-blooded heterosexual facts
    You'd go down great at the golf club actually. There's quite a few of 'you' down there.

    Me, I just let them be. You can't be fighting all the time. Not if you want to improve your game.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 930
    if Trump wins it wll be a dictatorship and Civil War.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 964
    NewsWire
    @NewsWire_US
    WASHINGTON (AP) — FBI: Social media account believed to belong to Trump rally shooter espoused political violence, had antisemitic posts.

    https://x.com/NewsWire_US/status/1818295643250585696
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401
    kjh said:

    Three weeks and the honeymoon is over.

    Reeves botches up her tax plan
    Miliband fks up energy policy
    Cooper has riots on the streets
    And Starmer gets booed for a 2 minute visit. ( why did he even bother ? )

    And they already have their paws all over the triumphalist shitcanning of Rwanda, the optics of which are horrid in this context.

    Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.
    The pair of you are completely deluded. I am no fan of Labour and fully expect it to go pearshaped at some stage, but really it hasn't yet and won't for awhile. We are still in the honeymoon period and will be for sometime. The fact you think it is all over now just shows how biased you both are.
    youre kidding yourself. Labour entered government with no clear plan now events are taking over, One of the factors you ignore is that Sunak lost the campaign, Labour didnt win it. And in that time where Labour stood back and said nothing, you interpreted as Labour competence. Whereas what we now see is their team isnt as strong as they presented. they are now increasibly defending their actions rather than dictating the agenda.

    If Id told you there would be riots 4 weeks ago youd have called me deluded - and I would have probabaly agreed.

    But there are.

    Events
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    edited July 30
    I think that MSE has a very sensible take on the Winter Fuel Payment being means tested.

    Basically - yes it's appropriate because why should eg people withy an income of 40k or 80k need it, but it is drawn somewhat too tight, restricting it to people who have a core income of £220 per week, plus various adjustments (£220 is my number - approx cut off income for receiving Pension Tax Credit).

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2024/07/eligibility-changes-winter-fuel-payment/
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    I hate midgies. The air around my tent is approx 85% insect. I can get my calories in by running around like a Basking Shark.

    I reckon it costs our economy more than a billion a year. The peak months are also the biggest holiday months.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Wow I've never seen people so angry at a PM laying flowers for children who have been murdered.


    Liam Gotting
    @GlobalGotting
    Keir Starmer is heckled by onlookers as he lays flowers at the scene of the Southport knife attack.

    @LBC

    @LBCNews

    https://x.com/GlobalGotting/status/1818298681977606316

    Why are they angry at him? Honest question?

    I think it's because it's them immigrants, innit.

    There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.

    Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
    There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.

    Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.

    Give your head a wobble.
    @kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him

    There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
    Thanks.

    What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.

    People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.

    People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
    It was me on the previous thread:

    "Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.

    Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.

    However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.

    However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.

    What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
    Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.

    Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
    Potential ecological fallacy there.

    I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
    My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
    What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
    I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
    But wasn't the Manchester attack because being a young girl at a pop concert was unIslamic?

    FWIW, I don't think your incel theory is any worse any other. No apparent motivation really makes sense.
    Incel is a pretty good theory. He was apparently awkward and introverted, from a somewhat itinerant immigrant Rwandan family. 17 years old, no local girls remotely interested? A Taylor Swift gym and yoga class, staffed by pretty female teachers and young and mainly white girls - that would satisfy his angry sexual inadequacy and sense of social alienation

    However, I would not be surprised by online radicalisation. Perhaps Islamic, perhaps not. He seems to have been quite careful in his targetting. This was not a random spasm, he carefully selected a group of victims at some distance from his home, and in an obscure building. He must have reconnoitred
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was synthetic cannabinoids, tbh. Utterly endemic with the yoof, particularly in deprived towns. Another failure of prohibition.
    Peter Hitchens will approve of this post
    Probably not my last sentence, though!

    Make weed cheap, legal and taxable, and you'd get regulated supply at safe dosages and the tax revenue might even go some way to plugging Rachel Reeves' £20bn hole.

    Prohibition just incentivises unregulated, stronger research chemicals that are easier and cheaper to import in bulk. See also how Fentanyl has taken over the US.

    Spice is a big problem in UK inner cities and small deprived towns, and I don't think most people of my generation or older realise how much more dangerous these drugs are than the weed and pills of our student days.


    What makes you think making the less strong stuff legal will get people to stop using the stronger stuff illegally?
    Because that's how legalisation works.

    How many people go out and buy illegal, stronger booze.

    When its legal, most people just go to the shop and buy what they want.
    But there's nothing stopping people buying really strong alcohol, is there?
    The critical bit is that the the alcohol percentage is known and reliable to a high degree (ha)

    Also, your legal alcohol has no meths and other fun impurities.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 964
    theakes said:

    if Trump wins it wll be a dictatorship and Civil War.

    It might still be civil war if he loses.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    Eabhal said:

    I hate midgies. The air around my tent is approx 85% insect. I can get my calories in by running around like a Basking Shark.

    I reckon it costs our economy more than a billion a year. The peak months are also the biggest holiday months.

    I can fix that problem.....
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 964
    Andy_JS said:

    Goodness me, Southport. Just seen the news after spending a couple of hours in the swimming pool.

    Go back in! Nothing good here
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128

    Cookie said:

    Basically, nothing nakes sense. It seems statistically unlikely this fella was one of the handful of Rwandan muslims - but it seems pretty unlikely he's Rwandan anyway, and apparently he is. So if not Islam, what? Even incels don't tend to get stabby with the preteens. Random madmen tend not to be so focussed.
    Guess we'll find out eventually.

    On the subject of crimes of unclear motive, I'd almost forgotten about the Trump sassytempt. That seems to have had remarkably little follow up.

    Yes. It was billed as the most significant act of violence since Hiroshima. I had entirely forgotten about it until I had to decipher sassytempt.
    Why would the Trump assassination attempt be more significant than the other failed or successful POTUS assassination attempts?

    Or have I misunderstood?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    theakes said:

    if Trump wins it wll be a dictatorship and Civil War.

    I don't think he will, but I'm rather fearful of how and his supporters will react to losing.

    It's why I really hope he loses bigly in the end, so there's less scope for 'steal' narratives.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    Three weeks and the honeymoon is over.

    Reeves botches up her tax plan
    Miliband fks up energy policy
    Cooper has riots on the streets
    And Starmer gets booed for a 2 minute visit. ( why did he even bother ? )

    For you, the Labour honeymoon was over after 2 nanoseconds.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401
    Roger said:

    Taz said:

    Three weeks and the honeymoon is over.

    Reeves botches up her tax plan
    Miliand fks up energy policy
    Cooper has riots on the streets
    And Starmer gets booed for a 2 minute visit. ( why did he even bother ? )

    Photo op ??
    Probably but it was pure cynicism . If he was sympathetic he's have made himself visible and for longer.
    Don't tell me they've given you the red eye shift. You've been at it since 6.30 this morning. Get your head down and leave it to one of the youngsters
    Youve been swimming in the Seine again havent you ?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Wow I've never seen people so angry at a PM laying flowers for children who have been murdered.


    Liam Gotting
    @GlobalGotting
    Keir Starmer is heckled by onlookers as he lays flowers at the scene of the Southport knife attack.

    @LBC

    @LBCNews

    https://x.com/GlobalGotting/status/1818298681977606316

    Why are they angry at him? Honest question?

    I think it's because it's them immigrants, innit.

    There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.

    Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
    There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.

    Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.

    Give your head a wobble.
    @kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him

    There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
    Thanks.

    What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.

    People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.

    People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
    It was me on the previous thread:

    "Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.

    Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.

    However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.

    However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.

    What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
    Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.

    Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
    Potential ecological fallacy there.

    I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
    My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
    What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
    I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
    But wasn't the Manchester attack because being a young girl at a pop concert was unIslamic?

    FWIW, I don't think your incel theory is any worse any other. No apparent motivation really makes sense.
    Incel is a pretty good theory. He was apparently awkward and introverted, from a somewhat itinerant immigrant Rwandan family. 17 years old, no local girls remotely interested? A Taylor Swift gym and yoga class, staffed by pretty female teachers and young and mainly white girls - that would satisfy his angry sexual inadequacy and sense of social alienation

    However, I would not be surprised by online radicalisation. Perhaps Islamic, perhaps not. He seems to have been quite careful in his targetting. This was not a random spasm, he carefully selected a group of victims at some distance from his home, and in an obscure building. He must have reconnoitred
    17 is a bit young to be an incel.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    Three weeks and the honeymoon is over.

    Reeves botches up her tax plan
    Miliband fks up energy policy
    Cooper has riots on the streets
    And Starmer gets booed for a 2 minute visit. ( why did he even bother ? )

    For you, the Labour honeymoon was over after 2 nanoseconds.
    Nah that was John Swinney
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603
    edited July 30
    Meanwhile in Southend people are fighting in the streets with machetes.

    https://x.com/crimeldn/status/1818381527115239793

    https://x.com/bamsam_md/status/1818380971328389232
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,938
    edited July 30
    Nunu5 said:

    The same folks saying if you attack police you deserve to get your head stamped on are now saying they have sympathy for the rioters in Southport.

    No sympathy for these rioters at all, any more than the ones in Leeds. Lock them up.

    But as MisterBedforshire points out, the whole thing starts to stink of Northern Ireland style sectarianism.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968

    tlg86 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Wow I've never seen people so angry at a PM laying flowers for children who have been murdered.


    Liam Gotting
    @GlobalGotting
    Keir Starmer is heckled by onlookers as he lays flowers at the scene of the Southport knife attack.

    @LBC

    @LBCNews

    https://x.com/GlobalGotting/status/1818298681977606316

    Why are they angry at him? Honest question?

    I think it's because it's them immigrants, innit.

    There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.

    Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
    There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.

    Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.

    Give your head a wobble.
    @kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him

    There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
    Thanks.

    What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.

    People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.

    People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
    It was me on the previous thread:

    "Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.

    Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.

    However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.

    However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.

    What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
    Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.

    Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
    Potential ecological fallacy there.

    I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
    My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
    What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
    I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
    But wasn't the Manchester attack because being a young girl at a pop concert was unIslamic?

    FWIW, I don't think your incel theory is any worse any other. No apparent motivation really makes sense.
    Incel is a pretty good theory. He was apparently awkward and introverted, from a somewhat itinerant immigrant Rwandan family. 17 years old, no local girls remotely interested? A Taylor Swift gym and yoga class, staffed by pretty female teachers and young and mainly white girls - that would satisfy his angry sexual inadequacy and sense of social alienation

    However, I would not be surprised by online radicalisation. Perhaps Islamic, perhaps not. He seems to have been quite careful in his targetting. This was not a random spasm, he carefully selected a group of victims at some distance from his home, and in an obscure building. He must have reconnoitred
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was synthetic cannabinoids, tbh. Utterly endemic with the yoof, particularly in deprived towns. Another failure of prohibition.
    Peter Hitchens will approve of this post
    Probably not my last sentence, though!

    Make weed cheap, legal and taxable, and you'd get regulated supply at safe dosages and the tax revenue might even go some way to plugging Rachel Reeves' £20bn hole.

    Prohibition just incentivises unregulated, stronger research chemicals that are easier and cheaper to import in bulk. See also how Fentanyl has taken over the US.

    Spice is a big problem in UK inner cities and small deprived towns, and I don't think most people of my generation or older realise how much more dangerous these drugs are than the weed and pills of our student days.


    What makes you think making the less strong stuff legal will get people to stop using the stronger stuff illegally?
    Because that's how legalisation works.

    How many people go out and buy illegal, stronger booze.

    When its legal, most people just go to the shop and buy what they want.
    LOL

    You do realise how strong standard strength spirits are, do you?

    Thought not.
    Why did you think not? Yes, I do.

    37.5% - 40% abv is typical standard strength spirits.

    Some lower strength spirits and spirit liquers are 15% to 20%

    While other spirits can have higher strengths. The overproof rum I like is 63% ABV but that's not standard strength.

    The clue is that the ABV is printed on the label.

    Under prohibition over 100 proof (aka 50% ABV) was often typical.
    If you really want, you can buy Polish Pure Spirit - 79.9% by volume.

    Nearly everyone who tries this, doesn't repeat the experiment. The effects do not scale linearly.
    I have a bottle I was gifted that is 190 proof, 95% ABV.

    My mother in law who gifted to me ran an off licence in Canada and it she bought it from her own off licence to give it to me. The sales she made of it are normally into two categories: those buying it (like she did) as a gift to give to someone else . . . or alcoholics. Its apparently very popular with native American alcoholics.

    I appreciate the gift but am in no rush to actually try it rather than just keep it as an appreciated gift.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    tlg86 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Wow I've never seen people so angry at a PM laying flowers for children who have been murdered.


    Liam Gotting
    @GlobalGotting
    Keir Starmer is heckled by onlookers as he lays flowers at the scene of the Southport knife attack.

    @LBC

    @LBCNews

    https://x.com/GlobalGotting/status/1818298681977606316

    Why are they angry at him? Honest question?

    I think it's because it's them immigrants, innit.

    There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.

    Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
    There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.

    Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.

    Give your head a wobble.
    @kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him

    There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
    Thanks.

    What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.

    People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.

    People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
    It was me on the previous thread:

    "Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.

    Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.

    However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.

    However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.

    What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
    Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.

    Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
    Potential ecological fallacy there.

    I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
    My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
    What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
    I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
    But wasn't the Manchester attack because being a young girl at a pop concert was unIslamic?

    FWIW, I don't think your incel theory is any worse any other. No apparent motivation really makes sense.
    Incel is a pretty good theory. He was apparently awkward and introverted, from a somewhat itinerant immigrant Rwandan family. 17 years old, no local girls remotely interested? A Taylor Swift gym and yoga class, staffed by pretty female teachers and young and mainly white girls - that would satisfy his angry sexual inadequacy and sense of social alienation

    However, I would not be surprised by online radicalisation. Perhaps Islamic, perhaps not. He seems to have been quite careful in his targetting. This was not a random spasm, he carefully selected a group of victims at some distance from his home, and in an obscure building. He must have reconnoitred
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was synthetic cannabinoids, tbh. Utterly endemic with the yoof, particularly in deprived towns. Another failure of prohibition.
    Peter Hitchens will approve of this post
    Probably not my last sentence, though!

    Make weed cheap, legal and taxable, and you'd get regulated supply at safe dosages and the tax revenue might even go some way to plugging Rachel Reeves' £20bn hole.

    Prohibition just incentivises unregulated, stronger research chemicals that are easier and cheaper to import in bulk. See also how Fentanyl has taken over the US.

    Spice is a big problem in UK inner cities and small deprived towns, and I don't think most people of my generation or older realise how much more dangerous these drugs are than the weed and pills of our student days.


    What makes you think making the less strong stuff legal will get people to stop using the stronger stuff illegally?
    Because that's how legalisation works.

    How many people go out and buy illegal, stronger booze.

    When its legal, most people just go to the shop and buy what they want.
    LOL

    You do realise how strong standard strength spirits are, do you?

    Thought not.
    Why did you think not? Yes, I do.

    37.5% - 40% abv is typical standard strength spirits.

    Some lower strength spirits and spirit liquers are 15% to 20%

    While other spirits can have higher strengths. The overproof rum I like is 63% ABV but that's not standard strength.

    The clue is that the ABV is printed on the label.

    Under prohibition over 100 proof (aka 50% ABV) was often typical.
    Yes. My point is that there's a ceiling with alcohol, which even legally available drink bumps into. Much the most effective way of getting most drunk on 70 proof whisky is to dilute it, at least 50 50, so there's no abuser motivation to go out looking for 100 proof. The case is different with weed, with which it's highly probable that there will always be illegal highs which are higher than legal ones.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,077
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    This is going to end in race war, or a kind of hideous sectarian stand off, a la Northern Ireland, as others have wisely noted

    It is beyond bleak. Mass immigration has been a catastrophic failure, across rhe west, and Britain has got a particularly bad case

    You could argue it is karmic revenge for the British Empire. There is some sense in that, if you are looking down in Olympian Judgment. But it doesn't mean modern Brits, who do not remember Empire and see no beneits of it, will forever meekly accept this state of affairs. They surely will not

    Perhaps even at this eleventh hour the Race War can be averted if we start deporting foreigners instead of putting out the welcome mat.
    Wilkommenskultur has worked so well in Germany

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willkommenskultur

    Ooops

    “Data released by the German Interior Ministry on Tuesday showed that crimes in Europe's largest economy have reached their highest peak since 2016.

    The data, which sparked widespread debate, shows that last year, 41 percent of all crime suspects were foreigners, or persons without German citizenship. Foreigners in German represent only 15 percent of the population.”

    https://english.aawsat.com/world/4958521-german-interior-minister-higher-migration-led-rise-crimes

    At some point, your feeble and effete bisexual social climbing “golf club member” Labour voting faux reality will yield to the cold hard thrust of red-blooded heterosexual facts
    What is this shit? Are you "on" something?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    kjh said:

    Three weeks and the honeymoon is over.

    Reeves botches up her tax plan
    Miliband fks up energy policy
    Cooper has riots on the streets
    And Starmer gets booed for a 2 minute visit. ( why did he even bother ? )

    And they already have their paws all over the triumphalist shitcanning of Rwanda, the optics of which are horrid in this context.

    Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.
    The pair of you are completely deluded. I am no fan of Labour and fully expect it to go pearshaped at some stage, but really it hasn't yet and won't for awhile. We are still in the honeymoon period and will be for sometime. The fact you think it is all over now just shows how biased you both are.
    youre kidding yourself. Labour entered government with no clear plan now events are taking over, One of the factors you ignore is that Sunak lost the campaign, Labour didnt win it. And in that time where Labour stood back and said nothing, you interpreted as Labour competence. Whereas what we now see is their team isnt as strong as they presented. they are now increasibly defending their actions rather than dictating the agenda.

    If Id told you there would be riots 4 weeks ago youd have called me deluded - and I would have probabaly agreed.

    But there are.

    Events
    I’m not seeing it. We are in the rather boring early days of the new government. Nobody’s particularly doing anything exciting. There have been good and less good moments so far. By far the least good has been yet more cancelling of infrastructure investment. But I suspect they are doing other things you disapprove of, therefore you assume everyone else must too.

  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    Nunu5 said:

    NewsWire
    @NewsWire_US
    WASHINGTON (AP) — FBI: Social media account believed to belong to Trump rally shooter espoused political violence, had antisemitic posts.

    https://x.com/NewsWire_US/status/1818295643250585696

    Impossible.

    @Leon has been banging the drum that he had no social media account and @Leon is never wrong don't you know!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Thread for planning guys.

    The draft National Planning Policy Framework is out.

    It's the most important housing (and infrastructure) policy document in England.

    So what's changed?

    https://x.com/Sam_Dumitriu/status/1818294137503818123

    Some quite interesting stuff there, and some caution.

    The solar farms one will make potentially a big difference. The Green Belt stuff looks sensible, which is one that could blow up unpredictably in Nimbyland.

    The prisons one is an interesting one.

    Changing the NPPF is always fraught, as the word by word nuances have a major impact on Planning Appeals.

    Some things not addressed that need to be addressed - notable rural housing in small communities, but a lot of that requires action outside Planning Law.

    Watch how the CPO reforms work with this.
    Just had a quick flick through. Couldn't find anything about prisons except under 'Flood risk vulnerability classification'. Am I looking at the right document?

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66a8db240808eaf43b50d9b0/national-planning-policy-framework-draft-text-for-consultation.pdf
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    edited July 30

    tlg86 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Wow I've never seen people so angry at a PM laying flowers for children who have been murdered.


    Liam Gotting
    @GlobalGotting
    Keir Starmer is heckled by onlookers as he lays flowers at the scene of the Southport knife attack.

    @LBC

    @LBCNews

    https://x.com/GlobalGotting/status/1818298681977606316

    Why are they angry at him? Honest question?

    I think it's because it's them immigrants, innit.

    There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.

    Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
    There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.

    Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.

    Give your head a wobble.
    @kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him

    There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
    Thanks.

    What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.

    People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.

    People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
    It was me on the previous thread:

    "Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.

    Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.

    However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.

    However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.

    What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
    Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.

    Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
    Potential ecological fallacy there.

    I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
    My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
    What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
    I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
    But wasn't the Manchester attack because being a young girl at a pop concert was unIslamic?

    FWIW, I don't think your incel theory is any worse any other. No apparent motivation really makes sense.
    Incel is a pretty good theory. He was apparently awkward and introverted, from a somewhat itinerant immigrant Rwandan family. 17 years old, no local girls remotely interested? A Taylor Swift gym and yoga class, staffed by pretty female teachers and young and mainly white girls - that would satisfy his angry sexual inadequacy and sense of social alienation

    However, I would not be surprised by online radicalisation. Perhaps Islamic, perhaps not. He seems to have been quite careful in his targetting. This was not a random spasm, he carefully selected a group of victims at some distance from his home, and in an obscure building. He must have reconnoitred
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was synthetic cannabinoids, tbh. Utterly endemic with the yoof, particularly in deprived towns. Another failure of prohibition.
    Peter Hitchens will approve of this post
    Probably not my last sentence, though!

    Make weed cheap, legal and taxable, and you'd get regulated supply at safe dosages and the tax revenue might even go some way to plugging Rachel Reeves' £20bn hole.

    Prohibition just incentivises unregulated, stronger research chemicals that are easier and cheaper to import in bulk. See also how Fentanyl has taken over the US.

    Spice is a big problem in UK inner cities and small deprived towns, and I don't think most people of my generation or older realise how much more dangerous these drugs are than the weed and pills of our student days.


    What makes you think making the less strong stuff legal will get people to stop using the stronger stuff illegally?
    Because that's how legalisation works.

    How many people go out and buy illegal, stronger booze.

    When its legal, most people just go to the shop and buy what they want.
    LOL

    You do realise how strong standard strength spirits are, do you?

    Thought not.
    Why did you think not? Yes, I do.

    37.5% - 40% abv is typical standard strength spirits.

    Some lower strength spirits and spirit liquers are 15% to 20%

    While other spirits can have higher strengths. The overproof rum I like is 63% ABV but that's not standard strength.

    The clue is that the ABV is printed on the label.

    Under prohibition over 100 proof (aka 50% ABV) was often typical.
    Yes. My point is that there's a ceiling with alcohol, which even legally available drink bumps into. Much the most effective way of getting most drunk on 70 proof whisky is to dilute it, at least 50 50, so there's no abuser motivation to go out looking for 100 proof. The case is different with weed, with which it's highly probable that there will always be illegal highs which are higher than legal ones.
    Legalise them all, then let people choose. Same as spirits.

    The biggest problem is people not knowing what they are getting into.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    Three weeks and the honeymoon is over.

    Reeves botches up her tax plan
    Miliband fks up energy policy
    Cooper has riots on the streets
    And Starmer gets booed for a 2 minute visit. ( why did he even bother ? )

    Not the best start is it...

    Thing can only get better? 😂
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    MattW said:

    Cookie said:

    Basically, nothing nakes sense. It seems statistically unlikely this fella was one of the handful of Rwandan muslims - but it seems pretty unlikely he's Rwandan anyway, and apparently he is. So if not Islam, what? Even incels don't tend to get stabby with the preteens. Random madmen tend not to be so focussed.
    Guess we'll find out eventually.

    On the subject of crimes of unclear motive, I'd almost forgotten about the Trump sassytempt. That seems to have had remarkably little follow up.

    Yes. It was billed as the most significant act of violence since Hiroshima. I had entirely forgotten about it until I had to decipher sassytempt.
    Why would the Trump assassination attempt be more significant than the other failed or successful POTUS assassination attempts?

    Or have I misunderstood?
    Well, there was a lot about it that was peculiar. The sassytempter was the blankest of blank slates. And because at the time it looked like it had handed Trump the presidency. It appeared electorally decisive and also mysterious.
    And now a fortnight later we have all forgotten about it.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 964
    kyf_100 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    The same folks saying if you attack police you deserve to get your head stamped on are now saying they have sympathy for the rioters in Southport.

    No sympathy for these rioters at all, any more than the ones in Leeds. Lock them up.

    But as MisterBedforshire points out, the whole thing starts to stink of Northern Ireland style sectarianism.
    Thanks in bo small part to misinformation on X.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    Leon said:

    This is going to end in race war, or a kind of hideous sectarian stand off, a la Northern Ireland, as others have wisely noted

    It is beyond bleak. Mass immigration has been a catastrophic failure, across rhe west, and Britain has got a particularly bad case

    You could argue it is karmic revenge for the British Empire. There is some sense in that, if you are looking down in Olympian Judgment. But it doesn't mean modern Brits, who do not remember Empire and see no beneits of it, will forever meekly accept this state of affairs. They surely will not

    On the political front puts Labour in a tricky situation with two parts of its voter coalition that have diametrically opposed instincts and are looking increasingly unreliable in their support for Labour - Muslims and the WWC. Reconciling that will take some doing.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Wow I've never seen people so angry at a PM laying flowers for children who have been murdered.


    Liam Gotting
    @GlobalGotting
    Keir Starmer is heckled by onlookers as he lays flowers at the scene of the Southport knife attack.

    @LBC

    @LBCNews

    https://x.com/GlobalGotting/status/1818298681977606316

    Why are they angry at him? Honest question?

    I think it's because it's them immigrants, innit.

    There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.

    Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
    There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.

    Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.

    Give your head a wobble.
    @kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him

    There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
    Thanks.

    What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.

    People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.

    People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
    It was me on the previous thread:

    "Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.

    Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.

    However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.

    However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.

    What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
    Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.

    Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
    Potential ecological fallacy there.

    I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
    My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
    What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
    I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
    But wasn't the Manchester attack because being a young girl at a pop concert was unIslamic?

    FWIW, I don't think your incel theory is any worse any other. No apparent motivation really makes sense.
    Incel is a pretty good theory. He was apparently awkward and introverted, from a somewhat itinerant immigrant Rwandan family. 17 years old, no local girls remotely interested? A Taylor Swift gym and yoga class, staffed by pretty female teachers and young and mainly white girls - that would satisfy his angry sexual inadequacy and sense of social alienation

    However, I would not be surprised by online radicalisation. Perhaps Islamic, perhaps not. He seems to have been quite careful in his targetting. This was not a random spasm, he carefully selected a group of victims at some distance from his home, and in an obscure building. He must have reconnoitred
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was synthetic cannabinoids, tbh. Utterly endemic with the yoof, particularly in deprived towns. Another failure of prohibition.
    Peter Hitchens will approve of this post
    Probably not my last sentence, though!

    Make weed cheap, legal and taxable, and you'd get regulated supply at safe dosages and the tax revenue might even go some way to plugging Rachel Reeves' £20bn hole.

    Prohibition just incentivises unregulated, stronger research chemicals that are easier and cheaper to import in bulk. See also how Fentanyl has taken over the US.

    Spice is a big problem in UK inner cities and small deprived towns, and I don't think most people of my generation or older realise how much more dangerous these drugs are than the weed and pills of our student days.


    What makes you think making the less strong stuff legal will get people to stop using the stronger stuff illegally?
    Because that's how legalisation works.

    How many people go out and buy illegal, stronger booze.

    When its legal, most people just go to the shop and buy what they want.
    But there's nothing stopping people buying really strong alcohol, is there?
    The critical bit is that the the alcohol percentage is known and reliable to a high degree (ha)

    Also, your legal alcohol has no meths and other fun impurities.
    Anyone who wants to know how strong their booze is need only look at the label for proof of its strength.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773

    Nunu5 said:

    NewsWire
    @NewsWire_US
    WASHINGTON (AP) — FBI: Social media account believed to belong to Trump rally shooter espoused political violence, had antisemitic posts.

    https://x.com/NewsWire_US/status/1818295643250585696

    Impossible.

    @Leon has been banging the drum that he had no social media account and @Leon is never wrong don't you know!
    So he was a far leftist?
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Eabhal said:

    I hate midgies. The air around my tent is approx 85% insect. I can get my calories in by running around like a Basking Shark.

    I reckon it costs our economy more than a billion a year. The peak months are also the biggest holiday months.

    DDT and fuck that woke Silent Spring bollocks.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782
    edited July 30

    kjh said:

    Three weeks and the honeymoon is over.

    Reeves botches up her tax plan
    Miliband fks up energy policy
    Cooper has riots on the streets
    And Starmer gets booed for a 2 minute visit. ( why did he even bother ? )

    And they already have their paws all over the triumphalist shitcanning of Rwanda, the optics of which are horrid in this context.

    Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.
    The pair of you are completely deluded. I am no fan of Labour and fully expect it to go pearshaped at some stage, but really it hasn't yet and won't for awhile. We are still in the honeymoon period and will be for sometime. The fact you think it is all over now just shows how biased you both are.
    I will admit I didn't think it would go tits up this quickly. But it is.
    It hasn't. It inevitably will as it does for all governments sooner or later. It is only in your mind that it has.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401
    edited July 30
    TimS said:

    kjh said:

    Three weeks and the honeymoon is over.

    Reeves botches up her tax plan
    Miliband fks up energy policy
    Cooper has riots on the streets
    And Starmer gets booed for a 2 minute visit. ( why did he even bother ? )

    And they already have their paws all over the triumphalist shitcanning of Rwanda, the optics of which are horrid in this context.

    Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.
    The pair of you are completely deluded. I am no fan of Labour and fully expect it to go pearshaped at some stage, but really it hasn't yet and won't for awhile. We are still in the honeymoon period and will be for sometime. The fact you think it is all over now just shows how biased you both are.
    youre kidding yourself. Labour entered government with no clear plan now events are taking over, One of the factors you ignore is that Sunak lost the campaign, Labour didnt win it. And in that time where Labour stood back and said nothing, you interpreted as Labour competence. Whereas what we now see is their team isnt as strong as they presented. they are now increasibly defending their actions rather than dictating the agenda.

    If Id told you there would be riots 4 weeks ago youd have called me deluded - and I would have probabaly agreed.

    But there are.

    Events
    I’m not seeing it. We are in the rather boring early days of the new government. Nobody’s particularly doing anything exciting. There have been good and less good moments so far. By far the least good has been yet more cancelling of infrastructure investment. But I suspect they are doing other things you disapprove of, therefore you assume everyone else must too.

    I understand your pain. Labour have simply had a short honeymoon and will be despartate for the summer recess. Reeves is making some confused decisions and if she intends to do all the bad news first its inevitable the honeymoon will be short.

    Having spent a lot of time pre=election saying Labour will have to cut spending I had an ironoc laugh when they attacked the pensioners. All those Labourites telling me it was impossible to cut anything just had the rug pulled from under their feet. But cut as she has she must now pray for a mild winter or it will be December gloom as the media pile on the pressure with oldies freezing in their ice bound homes.

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174

    Cookie said:

    Basically, nothing nakes sense. It seems statistically unlikely this fella was one of the handful of Rwandan muslims - but it seems pretty unlikely he's Rwandan anyway, and apparently he is. So if not Islam, what? Even incels don't tend to get stabby with the preteens. Random madmen tend not to be so focussed.
    Guess we'll find out eventually.

    On the subject of crimes of unclear motive, I'd almost forgotten about the Trump sassytempt. That seems to have had remarkably little follow up.

    The Dunblane killer was pretty focused.
    Just reading the wiki page, it’s clear what his motivation was. He’d been outed as a danger to young boys and he was clearly bitter about this.
  • tlg86 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Wow I've never seen people so angry at a PM laying flowers for children who have been murdered.


    Liam Gotting
    @GlobalGotting
    Keir Starmer is heckled by onlookers as he lays flowers at the scene of the Southport knife attack.

    @LBC

    @LBCNews

    https://x.com/GlobalGotting/status/1818298681977606316

    Why are they angry at him? Honest question?

    I think it's because it's them immigrants, innit.

    There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.

    Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
    There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.

    Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.

    Give your head a wobble.
    @kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him

    There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
    Thanks.

    What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.

    People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.

    People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
    It was me on the previous thread:

    "Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.

    Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.

    However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.

    However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.

    What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
    Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.

    Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
    Potential ecological fallacy there.

    I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
    My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
    What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
    I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
    But wasn't the Manchester attack because being a young girl at a pop concert was unIslamic?

    FWIW, I don't think your incel theory is any worse any other. No apparent motivation really makes sense.
    Incel is a pretty good theory. He was apparently awkward and introverted, from a somewhat itinerant immigrant Rwandan family. 17 years old, no local girls remotely interested? A Taylor Swift gym and yoga class, staffed by pretty female teachers and young and mainly white girls - that would satisfy his angry sexual inadequacy and sense of social alienation

    However, I would not be surprised by online radicalisation. Perhaps Islamic, perhaps not. He seems to have been quite careful in his targetting. This was not a random spasm, he carefully selected a group of victims at some distance from his home, and in an obscure building. He must have reconnoitred
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was synthetic cannabinoids, tbh. Utterly endemic with the yoof, particularly in deprived towns. Another failure of prohibition.
    Peter Hitchens will approve of this post
    Probably not my last sentence, though!

    Make weed cheap, legal and taxable, and you'd get regulated supply at safe dosages and the tax revenue might even go some way to plugging Rachel Reeves' £20bn hole.

    Prohibition just incentivises unregulated, stronger research chemicals that are easier and cheaper to import in bulk. See also how Fentanyl has taken over the US.

    Spice is a big problem in UK inner cities and small deprived towns, and I don't think most people of my generation or older realise how much more dangerous these drugs are than the weed and pills of our student days.


    What makes you think making the less strong stuff legal will get people to stop using the stronger stuff illegally?
    Because that's how legalisation works.

    How many people go out and buy illegal, stronger booze.

    When its legal, most people just go to the shop and buy what they want.
    LOL

    You do realise how strong standard strength spirits are, do you?

    Thought not.
    Why did you think not? Yes, I do.

    37.5% - 40% abv is typical standard strength spirits.

    Some lower strength spirits and spirit liquers are 15% to 20%

    While other spirits can have higher strengths. The overproof rum I like is 63% ABV but that's not standard strength.

    The clue is that the ABV is printed on the label.

    Under prohibition over 100 proof (aka 50% ABV) was often typical.
    If you really want, you can buy Polish Pure Spirit - 79.9% by volume.

    Nearly everyone who tries this, doesn't repeat the experiment. The effects do not scale linearly.
    I have a bottle I was gifted that is 190 proof, 95% ABV.

    My mother in law who gifted to me ran an off licence in Canada and it she bought it from her own off licence to give it to me. The sales she made of it are normally into two categories: those buying it (like she did) as a gift to give to someone else . . . or alcoholics. Its apparently very popular with native American alcoholics.

    I appreciate the gift but am in no rush to actually try it rather than just keep it as an appreciated gift.
    The world is full of odd inconsistencies, but it's interesting that you can buy 190 proof spirits but not unpasteurised milk in Canada!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789
    The Labour honeymoon is very swiftly coming to an end. A Tory PM would have handled the Southport situation better than Starmer has. He's got no righteous anger just mealy mouthed bullshit. He's got no way of stopping the idiots on the streets rioting either, he supports more immigration and more asylum seekers. He cancelled the deportation plan, he's closing the asylum ship and all he talks about is "processing more applications" or doing it faster which is just code for "accept more and do it faster" people aren't stupid.

    If Labour doesn't do anything and the next Tory leader isn't careful I worry that Reform will take 5-10 points off Labour in 2029 and get 200 seats.

    I haven't feared for the future of the country like this for a while, people in the streets targeting people who don't have white skin is the nightmare scenario and Labour spending the next 5 years letting in all and sundry at the border will only make it worse.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    Social media. Yet again spreading wild rumour and conspiracy nonsense.

    Would that we had never invented the bloody thing.

    Social media was okay when only a minority of people used it, ie. not stupid people.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930
    edited July 30

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Is it me, or is it a touch bad-tempered today, whilst I've been away supervising gas engineers?

    I feel a need for a pineapple-topped pizza.

    My photo quota today is a new Olympic Sport - autobalance. It's a valid sport even though a judge is present. I'm not sure which country this is. I have lots of ideas for other events.


    I was quite taken by a suggestion in a trying-hard-but-not-quite-getting-there suggestion from the CIHT that rising bollards should have a bleep-warning for VIPs (Visually Impaired People) before they rise. Not totally convinced that that is to the left on the pareto chart.

    * Chartered Institute of Highways and Transportation.

    Yeah, it’s been right cranky the last couple of days.

    Dead children are secondary to people either wanting to bash migration, or as has happened today, wanting to sneer at a frightened community who dared to boo Starmer.

    On a plus note the cycle route I use to work has had in the last couple of weeks a lot of work to not only improve access to it but also to remove the nasty bits where roots prose through the pathway.
    One of the two gas engineers who was fitting the new boiler this morning * was a lady who retired from the police several years ago in her 30s because she was divorced with 3 young kids and could not find childcare to handle the shift pattern.

    Not sure just where prices are now except that British Gas BFONT their customers with an inverted porcupine, but I paid £2750 for a Baxi Platinum Compact with a 10 year guarantee (+£250 over 5 year guarantee), which included a Magnaclean (iron filing remover), Gas Safety Cert and a supplied shower replaced. Trader below VAT threshold. 2 people 5 hours. That is probably a price for likely repeat business, as she will get ~3 services/safety certs per annum from me, plus be a regular supplier.
    I don’t think that’s unreasonable. I had a Baxi fitted a few years ago which included some new pipework and it was 1850 GBP and I got a discount on the boiler as I worked for them at the time.

    Since then had to replace the expansion vessel and plate to plate.

    Not a fan of Combi boilers as it’s a pressured system.

    Yours is probably made at the Preston site which, when I worked there had a BNP councillor.
    The engineer is keen on Baxi because of ease of maintenance (I'm normally a Bosch Greenstar or Ideal shop), aka "in Baxi the pieces that need replacing tend to be easier to get to" - which is fair enough.

    Plus works closely with a colleague and says she can deliver a prompt response for me on things that go pop, which is very important for an LL. I had one boiler that died in December; a rapid response is very important then.
    Gas fitter. Not an engineer.
    Engineering. What la creme de la crème should aspire to, instead of waffly bollocks like PPE at Oxford or Law at Cambridge.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968

    tlg86 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Wow I've never seen people so angry at a PM laying flowers for children who have been murdered.


    Liam Gotting
    @GlobalGotting
    Keir Starmer is heckled by onlookers as he lays flowers at the scene of the Southport knife attack.

    @LBC

    @LBCNews

    https://x.com/GlobalGotting/status/1818298681977606316

    Why are they angry at him? Honest question?

    I think it's because it's them immigrants, innit.

    There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.

    Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
    There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.

    Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.

    Give your head a wobble.
    @kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him

    There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
    Thanks.

    What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.

    People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.

    People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
    It was me on the previous thread:

    "Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.

    Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.

    However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.

    However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.

    What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
    Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.

    Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
    Potential ecological fallacy there.

    I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
    My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
    What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
    I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
    But wasn't the Manchester attack because being a young girl at a pop concert was unIslamic?

    FWIW, I don't think your incel theory is any worse any other. No apparent motivation really makes sense.
    Incel is a pretty good theory. He was apparently awkward and introverted, from a somewhat itinerant immigrant Rwandan family. 17 years old, no local girls remotely interested? A Taylor Swift gym and yoga class, staffed by pretty female teachers and young and mainly white girls - that would satisfy his angry sexual inadequacy and sense of social alienation

    However, I would not be surprised by online radicalisation. Perhaps Islamic, perhaps not. He seems to have been quite careful in his targetting. This was not a random spasm, he carefully selected a group of victims at some distance from his home, and in an obscure building. He must have reconnoitred
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was synthetic cannabinoids, tbh. Utterly endemic with the yoof, particularly in deprived towns. Another failure of prohibition.
    Peter Hitchens will approve of this post
    Probably not my last sentence, though!

    Make weed cheap, legal and taxable, and you'd get regulated supply at safe dosages and the tax revenue might even go some way to plugging Rachel Reeves' £20bn hole.

    Prohibition just incentivises unregulated, stronger research chemicals that are easier and cheaper to import in bulk. See also how Fentanyl has taken over the US.

    Spice is a big problem in UK inner cities and small deprived towns, and I don't think most people of my generation or older realise how much more dangerous these drugs are than the weed and pills of our student days.


    What makes you think making the less strong stuff legal will get people to stop using the stronger stuff illegally?
    Because that's how legalisation works.

    How many people go out and buy illegal, stronger booze.

    When its legal, most people just go to the shop and buy what they want.
    LOL

    You do realise how strong standard strength spirits are, do you?

    Thought not.
    Why did you think not? Yes, I do.

    37.5% - 40% abv is typical standard strength spirits.

    Some lower strength spirits and spirit liquers are 15% to 20%

    While other spirits can have higher strengths. The overproof rum I like is 63% ABV but that's not standard strength.

    The clue is that the ABV is printed on the label.

    Under prohibition over 100 proof (aka 50% ABV) was often typical.
    If you really want, you can buy Polish Pure Spirit - 79.9% by volume.

    Nearly everyone who tries this, doesn't repeat the experiment. The effects do not scale linearly.
    I have a bottle I was gifted that is 190 proof, 95% ABV.

    My mother in law who gifted to me ran an off licence in Canada and it she bought it from her own off licence to give it to me. The sales she made of it are normally into two categories: those buying it (like she did) as a gift to give to someone else . . . or alcoholics. Its apparently very popular with native American alcoholics.

    I appreciate the gift but am in no rush to actually try it rather than just keep it as an appreciated gift.
    The world is full of odd inconsistencies, but it's interesting that you can buy 190 proof spirits but not unpasteurised milk in Canada!
    It is indeed, though it cuts both ways. My soon-to-be sister-in-law when she came over for our wedding was shocked and amazed that you could buy alcohol in Boots, before we left the airport after picking them up, let alone a supermarket.

    Only off licences can sell alcohol there, no supermarkets or other shops. Alberta is apparently very liberal for allowing privatised off licences, in many provinces all the off licences are ran by the province (which from memory is the case for some Scandinavian nations too but I can't remember which).
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Three weeks and the honeymoon is over.

    Reeves botches up her tax plan
    Miliband fks up energy policy
    Cooper has riots on the streets
    And Starmer gets booed for a 2 minute visit. ( why did he even bother ? )

    And they already have their paws all over the triumphalist shitcanning of Rwanda, the optics of which are horrid in this context.

    Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.
    The pair of you are completely deluded. I am no fan of Labour and fully expect it to go pearshaped at some stage, but really it hasn't yet and won't for awhile. We are still in the honeymoon period and will be for sometime. The fact you think it is all over now just shows how biased you both are.
    I will admit I didn't think it would go tits up this quickly. But it is.
    It hasn't. It inevitably will as it does for all governments sooner or later. It is only in your mind that it has.
    The first sets of approval ratings from pollsters will be interesting. My expectation is that they’ll not have shifted much of at all since the election, because people are disengaged from politics now the election is over. This site is a very niche grouping of people actually still interested.

    Then we’ll get several months where all political interest focuses on the US. Only after November would I expect any major polling of approval shifts.
  • tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    Basically, nothing nakes sense. It seems statistically unlikely this fella was one of the handful of Rwandan muslims - but it seems pretty unlikely he's Rwandan anyway, and apparently he is. So if not Islam, what? Even incels don't tend to get stabby with the preteens. Random madmen tend not to be so focussed.
    Guess we'll find out eventually.

    On the subject of crimes of unclear motive, I'd almost forgotten about the Trump sassytempt. That seems to have had remarkably little follow up.

    The Dunblane killer was pretty focused.
    Just reading the wiki page, it’s clear what his motivation was. He’d been outed as a danger to young boys and he was clearly bitter about this.
    I get that it clearly was in his mind, although must say the logical leap from there to massacre is a huge and unfathomable one.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    These far right characters are damned lucky the police haven't followed their advice on when to shoot (or not).
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    Social media. Yet again spreading wild rumour and conspiracy nonsense.

    Would that we had never invented the bloody thing.

    In 20 years time, one way or another, social media will be under much tighter control. I predict governments around the world will legislate extensively on what is and isn't allowed to be published.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    TimS said:

    kjh said:

    Three weeks and the honeymoon is over.

    Reeves botches up her tax plan
    Miliband fks up energy policy
    Cooper has riots on the streets
    And Starmer gets booed for a 2 minute visit. ( why did he even bother ? )

    And they already have their paws all over the triumphalist shitcanning of Rwanda, the optics of which are horrid in this context.

    Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.
    The pair of you are completely deluded. I am no fan of Labour and fully expect it to go pearshaped at some stage, but really it hasn't yet and won't for awhile. We are still in the honeymoon period and will be for sometime. The fact you think it is all over now just shows how biased you both are.
    youre kidding yourself. Labour entered government with no clear plan now events are taking over, One of the factors you ignore is that Sunak lost the campaign, Labour didnt win it. And in that time where Labour stood back and said nothing, you interpreted as Labour competence. Whereas what we now see is their team isnt as strong as they presented. they are now increasibly defending their actions rather than dictating the agenda.

    If Id told you there would be riots 4 weeks ago youd have called me deluded - and I would have probabaly agreed.

    But there are.

    Events
    I’m not seeing it. We are in the rather boring early days of the new government. Nobody’s particularly doing anything exciting. There have been good and less good moments so far. By far the least good has been yet more cancelling of infrastructure investment. But I suspect they are doing other things you disapprove of, therefore you assume everyone else must too.

    I understand your pain. Labour have simply had a short honeymoon and will be despartate for the summer recess. Reeves is making some confused decisions and if she intends to do all the bad news first its inevitable the honeymoon will be short.

    Having spent a lot of time pre=election saying Labour will have to cut spending I had an ironoc laugh when they attacked the pensioners. All those Labourites telling me it was impossible to cut anything just had the rug pulled from under their feet. But cut as she has she must now pray for a mild winter or it will be December gloom as the media pile on the pressure with oldies freezing in their ice bound homes.

    I’m a Lib Dem. There is no discernible pain to be felt yet. We have 72 seats. We may even benefit from the eventual Labour decline.

    But for now any wishful thinking about Labour collapse is just that.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789

    Social media. Yet again spreading wild rumour and conspiracy nonsense.

    Would that we had never invented the bloody thing.

    It's not just social media, it's complete silence from the police that's adding to the sense that this is being covered up somehow. The idea that there's no motive is ridiculous, they've had the guy in custody for long enough to establish whether he's a terrorist, Andrew Tate disciple or just nuts. Not coming clean on the ethnicity/religion is also giving oxygen to the flames right now.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,938
    Nunu5 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    The same folks saying if you attack police you deserve to get your head stamped on are now saying they have sympathy for the rioters in Southport.

    No sympathy for these rioters at all, any more than the ones in Leeds. Lock them up.

    But as MisterBedforshire points out, the whole thing starts to stink of Northern Ireland style sectarianism.
    Thanks in bo small part to misinformation on X.
    True, but we also had people looking for paediatricians to string up long before Twatter was around, so the medium may have changed, but the message hasn't.

    It's easy to say on a heatwave and the hottest day of the year, but it does feel like tensions around ethnicity and identity are starting to boil over in the UK. A situation that may develop not to anyone's advantage.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Andy_JS said:

    Social media. Yet again spreading wild rumour and conspiracy nonsense.

    Would that we had never invented the bloody thing.

    Social media was okay when only a minority of people used it, ie. not stupid people.
    PB obviously doesn't count as social media.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    AnthonyT said:

    Re Southport: Why are people on here obsessing about race and Rwanda and missing the obvious?

    A man targeted girls and women. Where he came from or his parents may be neither here nor there. His sex and the sex of his victims likely are.

    Sadly since Cyclefree and others left, this site has more male racists than females at all, it seems.

    So the male racists are leading the charge with what they know best, and forget women and girls. Unless the girls are a proxy to a racist jibe.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    MaxPB said:

    The Labour honeymoon is very swiftly coming to an end. A Tory PM would have handled the Southport situation better than Starmer has. He's got no righteous anger just mealy mouthed bullshit. He's got no way of stopping the idiots on the streets rioting either, he supports more immigration and more asylum seekers. He cancelled the deportation plan, he's closing the asylum ship and all he talks about is "processing more applications" or doing it faster which is just code for "accept more and do it faster" people aren't stupid.

    If Labour doesn't do anything and the next Tory leader isn't careful I worry that Reform will take 5-10 points off Labour in 2029 and get 200 seats.

    I haven't feared for the future of the country like this for a while, people in the streets targeting people who don't have white skin is the nightmare scenario and Labour spending the next 5 years letting in all and sundry at the border will only make it worse.

    And what exactly did Bozo start doing in 2021 - hint most of them are from India, Nigeria or similar countries...
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Wow I've never seen people so angry at a PM laying flowers for children who have been murdered.


    Liam Gotting
    @GlobalGotting
    Keir Starmer is heckled by onlookers as he lays flowers at the scene of the Southport knife attack.

    @LBC

    @LBCNews

    https://x.com/GlobalGotting/status/1818298681977606316

    Why are they angry at him? Honest question?

    I think it's because it's them immigrants, innit.

    There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.

    Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
    There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.

    Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.

    Give your head a wobble.
    @kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him

    There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
    Thanks.

    What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.

    People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.

    People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
    It was me on the previous thread:

    "Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.

    Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.

    However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.

    However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.

    What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
    Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.

    Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
    Potential ecological fallacy there.

    I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
    My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
    What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
    I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
    But wasn't the Manchester attack because being a young girl at a pop concert was unIslamic?

    FWIW, I don't think your incel theory is any worse any other. No apparent motivation really makes sense.
    Incel is a pretty good theory. He was apparently awkward and introverted, from a somewhat itinerant immigrant Rwandan family. 17 years old, no local girls remotely interested? A Taylor Swift gym and yoga class, staffed by pretty female teachers and young and mainly white girls - that would satisfy his angry sexual inadequacy and sense of social alienation

    However, I would not be surprised by online radicalisation. Perhaps Islamic, perhaps not. He seems to have been quite careful in his targetting. This was not a random spasm, he carefully selected a group of victims at some distance from his home, and in an obscure building. He must have reconnoitred
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was synthetic cannabinoids, tbh. Utterly endemic with the yoof, particularly in deprived towns. Another failure of prohibition.
    Peter Hitchens will approve of this post
    Probably not my last sentence, though!

    Make weed cheap, legal and taxable, and you'd get regulated supply at safe dosages and the tax revenue might even go some way to plugging Rachel Reeves' £20bn hole.

    Prohibition just incentivises unregulated, stronger research chemicals that are easier and cheaper to import in bulk. See also how Fentanyl has taken over the US.

    Spice is a big problem in UK inner cities and small deprived towns, and I don't think most people of my generation or older realise how much more dangerous these drugs are than the weed and pills of our student days.


    What makes you think making the less strong stuff legal will get people to stop using the stronger stuff illegally?
    Because that's how legalisation works.

    How many people go out and buy illegal, stronger booze.

    When its legal, most people just go to the shop and buy what they want.
    But there's nothing stopping people buying really strong alcohol, is there?
    The critical bit is that the the alcohol percentage is known and reliable to a high degree (ha)

    Also, your legal alcohol has no meths and other fun impurities.
    Anyone who wants to know how strong their booze is need only look at the label for proof of its strength.
    Missing your own point here. There's no form of alcohol which gets you drunker than legally available and properly labelled whisky. For any acceptable form of weed there's always going to be a strain or synthetic analog which gets you much much higher.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    tlg86 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Wow I've never seen people so angry at a PM laying flowers for children who have been murdered.


    Liam Gotting
    @GlobalGotting
    Keir Starmer is heckled by onlookers as he lays flowers at the scene of the Southport knife attack.

    @LBC

    @LBCNews

    https://x.com/GlobalGotting/status/1818298681977606316

    Why are they angry at him? Honest question?

    I think it's because it's them immigrants, innit.

    There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.

    Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
    There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.

    Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.

    Give your head a wobble.
    @kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him

    There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
    Thanks.

    What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.

    People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.

    People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
    It was me on the previous thread:

    "Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.

    Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.

    However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.

    However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.

    What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
    Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.

    Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
    Potential ecological fallacy there.

    I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
    My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
    What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
    I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
    But wasn't the Manchester attack because being a young girl at a pop concert was unIslamic?

    FWIW, I don't think your incel theory is any worse any other. No apparent motivation really makes sense.
    Incel is a pretty good theory. He was apparently awkward and introverted, from a somewhat itinerant immigrant Rwandan family. 17 years old, no local girls remotely interested? A Taylor Swift gym and yoga class, staffed by pretty female teachers and young and mainly white girls - that would satisfy his angry sexual inadequacy and sense of social alienation

    However, I would not be surprised by online radicalisation. Perhaps Islamic, perhaps not. He seems to have been quite careful in his targetting. This was not a random spasm, he carefully selected a group of victims at some distance from his home, and in an obscure building. He must have reconnoitred
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was synthetic cannabinoids, tbh. Utterly endemic with the yoof, particularly in deprived towns. Another failure of prohibition.
    Peter Hitchens will approve of this post
    Probably not my last sentence, though!

    Make weed cheap, legal and taxable, and you'd get regulated supply at safe dosages and the tax revenue might even go some way to plugging Rachel Reeves' £20bn hole.

    Prohibition just incentivises unregulated, stronger research chemicals that are easier and cheaper to import in bulk. See also how Fentanyl has taken over the US.

    Spice is a big problem in UK inner cities and small deprived towns, and I don't think most people of my generation or older realise how much more dangerous these drugs are than the weed and pills of our student days.


    What makes you think making the less strong stuff legal will get people to stop using the stronger stuff illegally?
    Because that's how legalisation works.

    How many people go out and buy illegal, stronger booze.

    When its legal, most people just go to the shop and buy what they want.
    LOL

    You do realise how strong standard strength spirits are, do you?

    Thought not.
    Why did you think not? Yes, I do.

    37.5% - 40% abv is typical standard strength spirits.

    Some lower strength spirits and spirit liquers are 15% to 20%

    While other spirits can have higher strengths. The overproof rum I like is 63% ABV but that's not standard strength.

    The clue is that the ABV is printed on the label.

    Under prohibition over 100 proof (aka 50% ABV) was often typical.
    In Grenada a few years ago, we tasted a 75% ABV rum. They refused to sell us a bottle because BA wouldn’t allow it on their planes. We made do with the 63% watered down stuff!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    TimS said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Three weeks and the honeymoon is over.

    Reeves botches up her tax plan
    Miliband fks up energy policy
    Cooper has riots on the streets
    And Starmer gets booed for a 2 minute visit. ( why did he even bother ? )

    And they already have their paws all over the triumphalist shitcanning of Rwanda, the optics of which are horrid in this context.

    Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.
    The pair of you are completely deluded. I am no fan of Labour and fully expect it to go pearshaped at some stage, but really it hasn't yet and won't for awhile. We are still in the honeymoon period and will be for sometime. The fact you think it is all over now just shows how biased you both are.
    I will admit I didn't think it would go tits up this quickly. But it is.
    It hasn't. It inevitably will as it does for all governments sooner or later. It is only in your mind that it has.
    The first sets of approval ratings from pollsters will be interesting. My expectation is that they’ll not have shifted much of at all since the election, because people are disengaged from politics now the election is over. This site is a very niche grouping of people actually still interested.

    Then we’ll get several months where all political interest focuses on the US. Only after November would I expect any major polling of approval shifts.
    A lot of PB Tories are still in the denial stage of grief.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    Andy_JS said:

    Social media. Yet again spreading wild rumour and conspiracy nonsense.

    Would that we had never invented the bloody thing.

    Social media was okay when only a minority of people used it, ie. not stupid people.
    Dunno, the vi vs emacs wars on usenet were pretty nasty at times.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399

    tlg86 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Wow I've never seen people so angry at a PM laying flowers for children who have been murdered.


    Liam Gotting
    @GlobalGotting
    Keir Starmer is heckled by onlookers as he lays flowers at the scene of the Southport knife attack.

    @LBC

    @LBCNews

    https://x.com/GlobalGotting/status/1818298681977606316

    Why are they angry at him? Honest question?

    I think it's because it's them immigrants, innit.

    There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.

    Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
    There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.

    Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.

    Give your head a wobble.
    @kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him

    There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
    Thanks.

    What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.

    People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.

    People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
    It was me on the previous thread:

    "Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.

    Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.

    However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.

    However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.

    What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
    Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.

    Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
    Potential ecological fallacy there.

    I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
    My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
    What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
    I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
    But wasn't the Manchester attack because being a young girl at a pop concert was unIslamic?

    FWIW, I don't think your incel theory is any worse any other. No apparent motivation really makes sense.
    Incel is a pretty good theory. He was apparently awkward and introverted, from a somewhat itinerant immigrant Rwandan family. 17 years old, no local girls remotely interested? A Taylor Swift gym and yoga class, staffed by pretty female teachers and young and mainly white girls - that would satisfy his angry sexual inadequacy and sense of social alienation

    However, I would not be surprised by online radicalisation. Perhaps Islamic, perhaps not. He seems to have been quite careful in his targetting. This was not a random spasm, he carefully selected a group of victims at some distance from his home, and in an obscure building. He must have reconnoitred
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was synthetic cannabinoids, tbh. Utterly endemic with the yoof, particularly in deprived towns. Another failure of prohibition.
    Peter Hitchens will approve of this post
    Probably not my last sentence, though!

    Make weed cheap, legal and taxable, and you'd get regulated supply at safe dosages and the tax revenue might even go some way to plugging Rachel Reeves' £20bn hole.

    Prohibition just incentivises unregulated, stronger research chemicals that are easier and cheaper to import in bulk. See also how Fentanyl has taken over the US.

    Spice is a big problem in UK inner cities and small deprived towns, and I don't think most people of my generation or older realise how much more dangerous these drugs are than the weed and pills of our student days.


    What makes you think making the less strong stuff legal will get people to stop using the stronger stuff illegally?
    Because that's how legalisation works.

    How many people go out and buy illegal, stronger booze.

    When its legal, most people just go to the shop and buy what they want.
    LOL

    You do realise how strong standard strength spirits are, do you?

    Thought not.
    Why did you think not? Yes, I do.

    37.5% - 40% abv is typical standard strength spirits.

    Some lower strength spirits and spirit liquers are 15% to 20%

    While other spirits can have higher strengths. The overproof rum I like is 63% ABV but that's not standard strength.

    The clue is that the ABV is printed on the label.

    Under prohibition over 100 proof (aka 50% ABV) was often typical.
    If you really want, you can buy Polish Pure Spirit - 79.9% by volume.

    Nearly everyone who tries this, doesn't repeat the experiment. The effects do not scale linearly.
    I have a bottle I was gifted that is 190 proof, 95% ABV.

    My mother in law who gifted to me ran an off licence in Canada and it she bought it from her own off licence to give it to me. The sales she made of it are normally into two categories: those buying it (like she did) as a gift to give to someone else . . . or alcoholics. Its apparently very popular with native American alcoholics.

    I appreciate the gift but am in no rush to actually try it rather than just keep it as an appreciated gift.
    The world is full of odd inconsistencies, but it's interesting that you can buy 190 proof spirits but not unpasteurised milk in Canada!
    It is indeed, though it cuts both ways. My soon-to-be sister-in-law when she came over for our wedding was shocked and amazed that you could buy alcohol in Boots, before we left the airport after picking them up, let alone a supermarket.

    Only off licences can sell alcohol there, no supermarkets or other shops. Alberta is apparently very liberal for allowing privatised off licences, in many provinces all the off licences are ran by the province (which from memory is the case for some Scandinavian nations too but I can't remember which).
    Yes.
    There were only 4 BC liquor stores in Victoria when I lived there in the mid 80's for a city of a quarter of a million. They weren't big hypermarkets either.
    Hillside, Shelbourne, Quadra and Downtown. I can still remember them!
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Wow I've never seen people so angry at a PM laying flowers for children who have been murdered.


    Liam Gotting
    @GlobalGotting
    Keir Starmer is heckled by onlookers as he lays flowers at the scene of the Southport knife attack.

    @LBC

    @LBCNews

    https://x.com/GlobalGotting/status/1818298681977606316

    Why are they angry at him? Honest question?

    I think it's because it's them immigrants, innit.

    There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.

    Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
    There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.

    Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.

    Give your head a wobble.
    @kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him

    There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
    Thanks.

    What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.

    People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.

    People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
    It was me on the previous thread:

    "Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.

    Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.

    However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.

    However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.

    What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
    Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.

    Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
    Potential ecological fallacy there.

    I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
    My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
    What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
    I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
    But wasn't the Manchester attack because being a young girl at a pop concert was unIslamic?

    FWIW, I don't think your incel theory is any worse any other. No apparent motivation really makes sense.
    Incel is a pretty good theory. He was apparently awkward and introverted, from a somewhat itinerant immigrant Rwandan family. 17 years old, no local girls remotely interested? A Taylor Swift gym and yoga class, staffed by pretty female teachers and young and mainly white girls - that would satisfy his angry sexual inadequacy and sense of social alienation

    However, I would not be surprised by online radicalisation. Perhaps Islamic, perhaps not. He seems to have been quite careful in his targetting. This was not a random spasm, he carefully selected a group of victims at some distance from his home, and in an obscure building. He must have reconnoitred
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was synthetic cannabinoids, tbh. Utterly endemic with the yoof, particularly in deprived towns. Another failure of prohibition.
    Peter Hitchens will approve of this post
    Probably not my last sentence, though!

    Make weed cheap, legal and taxable, and you'd get regulated supply at safe dosages and the tax revenue might even go some way to plugging Rachel Reeves' £20bn hole.

    Prohibition just incentivises unregulated, stronger research chemicals that are easier and cheaper to import in bulk. See also how Fentanyl has taken over the US.

    Spice is a big problem in UK inner cities and small deprived towns, and I don't think most people of my generation or older realise how much more dangerous these drugs are than the weed and pills of our student days.


    What makes you think making the less strong stuff legal will get people to stop using the stronger stuff illegally?
    Because that's how legalisation works.

    How many people go out and buy illegal, stronger booze.

    When its legal, most people just go to the shop and buy what they want.
    But there's nothing stopping people buying really strong alcohol, is there?
    The critical bit is that the the alcohol percentage is known and reliable to a high degree (ha)

    Also, your legal alcohol has no meths and other fun impurities.
    Anyone who wants to know how strong their booze is need only look at the label for proof of its strength.
    Missing your own point here. There's no form of alcohol which gets you drunker than legally available and properly labelled whisky. For any acceptable form of weed there's always going to be a strain or synthetic analog which gets you much much higher.
    So?

    Legalise them all and have honest labelling requirements.

    Let people buy what they want from Tesco's. The dealers will soon be out of business.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    The Labour honeymoon is very swiftly coming to an end. A Tory PM would have handled the Southport situation better than Starmer has. He's got no righteous anger just mealy mouthed bullshit. He's got no way of stopping the idiots on the streets rioting either, he supports more immigration and more asylum seekers. He cancelled the deportation plan, he's closing the asylum ship and all he talks about is "processing more applications" or doing it faster which is just code for "accept more and do it faster" people aren't stupid.

    If Labour doesn't do anything and the next Tory leader isn't careful I worry that Reform will take 5-10 points off Labour in 2029 and get 200 seats.

    I haven't feared for the future of the country like this for a while, people in the streets targeting people who don't have white skin is the nightmare scenario and Labour spending the next 5 years letting in all and sundry at the border will only make it worse.

    And what exactly did Bozo start doing in 2021 - hint most of them are from India, Nigeria or similar countries...
    Doesn't matter now, Labour are in power and are visibly making it easier for asylum seekers to come to the UK and stay. That's what people see.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    MaxPB said:

    Social media. Yet again spreading wild rumour and conspiracy nonsense.

    Would that we had never invented the bloody thing.

    It's not just social media, it's complete silence from the police that's adding to the sense that this is being covered up somehow. The idea that there's no motive is ridiculous, they've had the guy in custody for long enough to establish whether he's a terrorist, Andrew Tate disciple or just nuts. Not coming clean on the ethnicity/religion is also giving oxygen to the flames right now.
    No, they haven't. Look how long it's taken for the FBI to dig into the Trump shooter's online profile. Imagine if they declare a mental health episode and 5 days later discover a Discord account with all sorts of terror stuff on it?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    Cookie said:

    Basically, nothing nakes sense. It seems statistically unlikely this fella was one of the handful of Rwandan muslims - but it seems pretty unlikely he's Rwandan anyway, and apparently he is. So if not Islam, what? Even incels don't tend to get stabby with the preteens. Random madmen tend not to be so focussed.
    Guess we'll find out eventually.

    On the subject of crimes of unclear motive, I'd almost forgotten about the Trump sassytempt. That seems to have had remarkably little follow up.

    Most likely, there aren't any policy implications.

    Paraphrasing Stalin, it's a tragedy not a statistic, and national government should be driven by statistics. In the meantime, the police need to investigate and the rest of us need to weep with those who weep and nothing more.
    Yes perhaps there is no motive, it is just a psychotic killing spree, which occasionally happens.
    I had assumed by now they would have announced that it is 'misogyny' - which could of course be a factor, but would also be a very convenient hypothesis/explanation
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782

    kjh said:

    Three weeks and the honeymoon is over.

    Reeves botches up her tax plan
    Miliband fks up energy policy
    Cooper has riots on the streets
    And Starmer gets booed for a 2 minute visit. ( why did he even bother ? )

    And they already have their paws all over the triumphalist shitcanning of Rwanda, the optics of which are horrid in this context.

    Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.
    The pair of you are completely deluded. I am no fan of Labour and fully expect it to go pearshaped at some stage, but really it hasn't yet and won't for awhile. We are still in the honeymoon period and will be for sometime. The fact you think it is all over now just shows how biased you both are.
    youre kidding yourself. Labour entered government with no clear plan now events are taking over, One of the factors you ignore is that Sunak lost the campaign, Labour didnt win it. And in that time where Labour stood back and said nothing, you interpreted as Labour competence. Whereas what we now see is their team isnt as strong as they presented. they are now increasibly defending their actions rather than dictating the agenda.

    If Id told you there would be riots 4 weeks ago youd have called me deluded - and I would have probabaly agreed.

    But there are.

    Events
    Well that post shows how deluded you are because you make assumptions about me that are completely wrong.

    a)I have not assumed Labour had a plan and I am not a Labour supporter.
    b)I did not ignore Sunak lost the campaign, although frankly there was little he could do about it, but yes he lost it So wrong again on that assumption about me.
    c) I did not assume Labour were competent by saying nothing. They did the sane thing of not interrupting their enemy while they made mistakes. Again you assume I am a Labour supporter when I am not, even though I have said so repeatedly.

    The plain truth is that although I don't support Labour (In 69 years I have never voted for them) I do recognise that the shine has yet to go off their victory, although it eventually will.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    The Labour honeymoon is very swiftly coming to an end. A Tory PM would have handled the Southport situation better than Starmer has. He's got no righteous anger just mealy mouthed bullshit. He's got no way of stopping the idiots on the streets rioting either, he supports more immigration and more asylum seekers. He cancelled the deportation plan, he's closing the asylum ship and all he talks about is "processing more applications" or doing it faster which is just code for "accept more and do it faster" people aren't stupid.

    If Labour doesn't do anything and the next Tory leader isn't careful I worry that Reform will take 5-10 points off Labour in 2029 and get 200 seats.

    I haven't feared for the future of the country like this for a while, people in the streets targeting people who don't have white skin is the nightmare scenario and Labour spending the next 5 years letting in all and sundry at the border will only make it worse.

    And what exactly did Bozo start doing in 2021 - hint most of them are from India, Nigeria or similar countries...
    What are you talking about? Who are they and what are ‘similar countries’?
  • tlg86 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Wow I've never seen people so angry at a PM laying flowers for children who have been murdered.


    Liam Gotting
    @GlobalGotting
    Keir Starmer is heckled by onlookers as he lays flowers at the scene of the Southport knife attack.

    @LBC

    @LBCNews

    https://x.com/GlobalGotting/status/1818298681977606316

    Why are they angry at him? Honest question?

    I think it's because it's them immigrants, innit.

    There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.

    Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
    There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.

    Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.

    Give your head a wobble.
    @kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him

    There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
    Thanks.

    What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.

    People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.

    People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
    It was me on the previous thread:

    "Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.

    Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.

    However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.

    However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.

    What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
    Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.

    Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
    Potential ecological fallacy there.

    I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
    My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
    What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
    I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
    But wasn't the Manchester attack because being a young girl at a pop concert was unIslamic?

    FWIW, I don't think your incel theory is any worse any other. No apparent motivation really makes sense.
    Incel is a pretty good theory. He was apparently awkward and introverted, from a somewhat itinerant immigrant Rwandan family. 17 years old, no local girls remotely interested? A Taylor Swift gym and yoga class, staffed by pretty female teachers and young and mainly white girls - that would satisfy his angry sexual inadequacy and sense of social alienation

    However, I would not be surprised by online radicalisation. Perhaps Islamic, perhaps not. He seems to have been quite careful in his targetting. This was not a random spasm, he carefully selected a group of victims at some distance from his home, and in an obscure building. He must have reconnoitred
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was synthetic cannabinoids, tbh. Utterly endemic with the yoof, particularly in deprived towns. Another failure of prohibition.
    Peter Hitchens will approve of this post
    Probably not my last sentence, though!

    Make weed cheap, legal and taxable, and you'd get regulated supply at safe dosages and the tax revenue might even go some way to plugging Rachel Reeves' £20bn hole.

    Prohibition just incentivises unregulated, stronger research chemicals that are easier and cheaper to import in bulk. See also how Fentanyl has taken over the US.

    Spice is a big problem in UK inner cities and small deprived towns, and I don't think most people of my generation or older realise how much more dangerous these drugs are than the weed and pills of our student days.


    What makes you think making the less strong stuff legal will get people to stop using the stronger stuff illegally?
    Because that's how legalisation works.

    How many people go out and buy illegal, stronger booze.

    When its legal, most people just go to the shop and buy what they want.
    LOL

    You do realise how strong standard strength spirits are, do you?

    Thought not.
    Why did you think not? Yes, I do.

    37.5% - 40% abv is typical standard strength spirits.

    Some lower strength spirits and spirit liquers are 15% to 20%

    While other spirits can have higher strengths. The overproof rum I like is 63% ABV but that's not standard strength.

    The clue is that the ABV is printed on the label.

    Under prohibition over 100 proof (aka 50% ABV) was often typical.
    If you really want, you can buy Polish Pure Spirit - 79.9% by volume.

    Nearly everyone who tries this, doesn't repeat the experiment. The effects do not scale linearly.
    I have a bottle I was gifted that is 190 proof, 95% ABV.

    My mother in law who gifted to me ran an off licence in Canada and it she bought it from her own off licence to give it to me. The sales she made of it are normally into two categories: those buying it (like she did) as a gift to give to someone else . . . or alcoholics. Its apparently very popular with native American alcoholics.

    I appreciate the gift but am in no rush to actually try it rather than just keep it as an appreciated gift.
    The world is full of odd inconsistencies, but it's interesting that you can buy 190 proof spirits but not unpasteurised milk in Canada!
    It is indeed, though it cuts both ways. My soon-to-be sister-in-law when she came over for our wedding was shocked and amazed that you could buy alcohol in Boots, before we left the airport after picking them up, let alone a supermarket.

    Only off licences can sell alcohol there, no supermarkets or other shops. Alberta is apparently very liberal for allowing privatised off licences, in many provinces all the off licences are ran by the province (which from memory is the case for some Scandinavian nations too but I can't remember which).
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, beloved by little statesmen, philosophers and divines".

    People over-worry about consistency generally. It isn't irrelevant, but I'm not sure anyone benefits from it being an overriding policy objective.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    ...

    Roger said:

    Taz said:

    Three weeks and the honeymoon is over.

    Reeves botches up her tax plan
    Miliand fks up energy policy
    Cooper has riots on the streets
    And Starmer gets booed for a 2 minute visit. ( why did he even bother ? )

    Photo op ??
    Probably but it was pure cynicism . If he was sympathetic he's have made himself visible and for longer.
    Don't tell me they've given you the red eye shift. You've been at it since 6.30 this morning. Get your head down and leave it to one of the youngsters
    All these Captains of Industry on PB do seem to have a fuckload of time on their hands. No.wonder the country finds itself up Shit Street.
    That’s because they’re only working part time to avoid the tax cliff edge.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    edited July 30
    Do right wingers here really think that rentamob Yaxley Lennons arriving in Southport to feast parasitically on its grief is a good look for them?

    The same right wingers would be stating - rightly - that Gaza protestors shrieking about Jews or just stop oilers blocking ambulances are terrible optics for the left. But they seem to have a blind spot here.

    These are your answer to just stop oil. They’re just as off putting.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174
    AnthonyT said:

    Re Southport: Why are people on here obsessing about race and Rwanda and missing the obvious?

    A man targeted girls and women. Where he came from or his parents may be neither here nor there. His sex and the sex of his victims likely are.

    It cuts both ways. Toxic masculinity is only brought up when it’s a white man.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    The Labour honeymoon is very swiftly coming to an end. A Tory PM would have handled the Southport situation better than Starmer has. He's got no righteous anger just mealy mouthed bullshit. He's got no way of stopping the idiots on the streets rioting either, he supports more immigration and more asylum seekers. He cancelled the deportation plan, he's closing the asylum ship and all he talks about is "processing more applications" or doing it faster which is just code for "accept more and do it faster" people aren't stupid.

    If Labour doesn't do anything and the next Tory leader isn't careful I worry that Reform will take 5-10 points off Labour in 2029 and get 200 seats.

    I haven't feared for the future of the country like this for a while, people in the streets targeting people who don't have white skin is the nightmare scenario and Labour spending the next 5 years letting in all and sundry at the border will only make it worse.

    And what exactly did Bozo start doing in 2021 - hint most of them are from India, Nigeria or similar countries...
    What are you talking about? Who are they and what are ‘similar countries’?
    Legal migration is no longer coming from the EU and is now coming from India, Pakistan and Nigeria (as the economy there is doing badly so a lot of nurses / care workers are now coming from Nigeria).
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789
    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Social media. Yet again spreading wild rumour and conspiracy nonsense.

    Would that we had never invented the bloody thing.

    It's not just social media, it's complete silence from the police that's adding to the sense that this is being covered up somehow. The idea that there's no motive is ridiculous, they've had the guy in custody for long enough to establish whether he's a terrorist, Andrew Tate disciple or just nuts. Not coming clean on the ethnicity/religion is also giving oxygen to the flames right now.
    No, they haven't. Look how long it's taken for the FBI to dig into the Trump shooter's online profile. Imagine if they declare a mental health episode and 5 days later discover a Discord account with all sorts of terror stuff on it?
    And yet they've ruled out terrorism pretty quickly. So clearly they've got some idea. I also think the fact that they went down that route so quickly also feeds the flames, so quick to deny terrorism just like they were so quick to deny that Rotherham had rape gangs etc...

    People remember that the police and authorities have previously placed "community relations" above victims before, holding their feet to the fire like this seems rational in that context.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    TimS said:

    Do right wingers here really think that rentamob Yaxley Lennons arriving in Southport to feast parasitically on its grief is a good look for them?

    The same right wingers would be stating - rightly - that Gaza protestors shrieking about Jews or just stop oilers blocking ambulances are terrible optics for the left. But they seem to have a blind spot here.

    These are your answer to just stop oil. They’re just as off putting.

    Speaking as a rightwinger myself (even if I didn't vote Tory last time, I still class myself as one) - no, they are and look like vile twats.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited July 30
    MaxPB said:

    The Labour honeymoon is very swiftly coming to an end. A Tory PM would have handled the Southport situation better than Starmer has. He's got no righteous anger just mealy mouthed bullshit. He's got no way of stopping the idiots on the streets rioting either, he supports more immigration and more asylum seekers. He cancelled the deportation plan, he's closing the asylum ship and all he talks about is "processing more applications" or doing it faster which is just code for "accept more and do it faster" people aren't stupid.

    If Labour doesn't do anything and the next Tory leader isn't careful I worry that Reform will take 5-10 points off Labour in 2029 and get 200 seats.

    I haven't feared for the future of the country like this for a while, people in the streets targeting people who don't have white skin is the nightmare scenario and Labour spending the next 5 years letting in all and sundry at the border will only make it worse.

    And now we go over to Southend....
    https://x.com/bamsam_md/status/1818380971328389232

    This stuff is now daily occurrence. Nice summers evening, can't even go to the amusement park without a hold of mask wearing yuffs having a knife fight.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    Eabhal said:

    These far right characters are damned lucky the police haven't followed their advice on when to shoot (or not).

    Easy. Check the colour swatch.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664

    Social media. Yet again spreading wild rumour and conspiracy nonsense.

    Would that we had never invented the bloody thing.

    In 20 years time, one way or another, social media will be under much tighter control. I predict governments around the world will legislate extensively on what is and isn't allowed to be published.
    My guess is that they will try to remove anonymity.

    And my family chat server will become illegal.

    We do need to get control of all the bots somehow, and X/Twitter don't seem to be able or willing.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    MaxPB said:

    The Labour honeymoon is very swiftly coming to an end. A Tory PM would have handled the Southport situation better than Starmer has. He's got no righteous anger just mealy mouthed bullshit. He's got no way of stopping the idiots on the streets rioting either, he supports more immigration and more asylum seekers. He cancelled the deportation plan, he's closing the asylum ship and all he talks about is "processing more applications" or doing it faster which is just code for "accept more and do it faster" people aren't stupid.

    If Labour doesn't do anything and the next Tory leader isn't careful I worry that Reform will take 5-10 points off Labour in 2029 and get 200 seats.

    I haven't feared for the future of the country like this for a while, people in the streets targeting people who don't have white skin is the nightmare scenario and Labour spending the next 5 years letting in all and sundry at the border will only make it worse.

    Did Labour even have a "honeymoon" ? Due to the lack of polling in July 2024 the evidence will probably always be "inconclusive"

    I think your prediction about Election 29 is spot on and I could easily see a hung parliament with a Con/Ref coalition the most likely outcome.

    Lets hope we get a decent Con leader who can not only take on Lab and Lib but also take Reform head on as well.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    MaxPB said:

    The Labour honeymoon is very swiftly coming to an end. A Tory PM would have handled the Southport situation better than Starmer has. He's got no righteous anger just mealy mouthed bullshit. He's got no way of stopping the idiots on the streets rioting either, he supports more immigration and more asylum seekers. He cancelled the deportation plan, he's closing the asylum ship and all he talks about is "processing more applications" or doing it faster which is just code for "accept more and do it faster" people aren't stupid.

    If Labour doesn't do anything and the next Tory leader isn't careful I worry that Reform will take 5-10 points off Labour in 2029 and get 200 seats.

    I haven't feared for the future of the country like this for a while, people in the streets targeting people who don't have white skin is the nightmare scenario and Labour spending the next 5 years letting in all and sundry at the border will only make it worse.

    And now we go over to Southend....
    https://x.com/bamsam_md/status/1818380971328389232

    This stuff is now daily occurrence. Nice summers evening, can't even go to the amusement park without a hold of mask wearing yuffs having a knife fight.
    It was happening every summer on Margate promenade in the good old days.
  • AnthonyTAnthonyT Posts: 70
    Taz said:

    From the Guardian. The focus is the suspects mental health. Seems reasonable to me. Stabbing kids to death is not rational and it does not seem terror related.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jul/30/police-searching-for-motive-for-southport-stabbings-focus-on-suspects-mental-health

    Given that the Met Commissioner said recently that violence against women and girls was an epidemic, systemic and needed to be treated as seriously as we do terrorism, perhaps we should be describing it as terror-related.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    TimS said:

    MaxPB said:

    The Labour honeymoon is very swiftly coming to an end. A Tory PM would have handled the Southport situation better than Starmer has. He's got no righteous anger just mealy mouthed bullshit. He's got no way of stopping the idiots on the streets rioting either, he supports more immigration and more asylum seekers. He cancelled the deportation plan, he's closing the asylum ship and all he talks about is "processing more applications" or doing it faster which is just code for "accept more and do it faster" people aren't stupid.

    If Labour doesn't do anything and the next Tory leader isn't careful I worry that Reform will take 5-10 points off Labour in 2029 and get 200 seats.

    I haven't feared for the future of the country like this for a while, people in the streets targeting people who don't have white skin is the nightmare scenario and Labour spending the next 5 years letting in all and sundry at the border will only make it worse.

    And now we go over to Southend....
    https://x.com/bamsam_md/status/1818380971328389232

    This stuff is now daily occurrence. Nice summers evening, can't even go to the amusement park without a hold of mask wearing yuffs having a knife fight.
    It was happening every summer on Margate promenade in the good old days.
    But in the 60s all the faces were rather paler (and the knifes rather smaller)..
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Quite a horrendous error from the Mirror here. Not only a crass and redundant sentiment, in the first place, but they CAN'T EVEN GET THE NAME OF THE TOWN RIGHT


    The Mirror
    @DailyMirror
    ·
    19m
    The Stockport tragedy is a brutal reminder of the uncertainty of life


    https://x.com/DailyMirror/status/1818305876878614637

    As someone from Stockport, that makes me instantly furious.
    It's not even as if I have anything against Southport. It's quite nice. It's just the distant contempt of the journalist. I can feel myself grabbing the journalist by the nose and seething "It's SOUTHport you southern fucking ponce."
    Ahhh Southport.
    Not quite as nice as it used to be, despite regular visits from Coronation Street cast members in the 1980s and 1990s as a 'nice day out'.

    I know little of what happened and steadfastly want to stay away.

    It's times like this my firm belief against the death penalty is shaken.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    Three weeks and the honeymoon is over.

    Reeves botches up her tax plan
    Miliband fks up energy policy
    Cooper has riots on the streets
    And Starmer gets booed for a 2 minute visit. ( why did he even bother ? )

    For you, the Labour honeymoon was over after 2 nanoseconds.

    Three weeks and the honeymoon is over.

    Reeves botches up her tax plan
    Miliband fks up energy policy
    Cooper has riots on the streets
    And Starmer gets booed for a 2 minute visit. ( why did he even bother ? )

    For you, the Labour honeymoon was over after 2 nanoseconds.
    Nah that was John Swinney
    Nah, his honeymoon was over in 2004!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174
    MaxPB said:

    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Social media. Yet again spreading wild rumour and conspiracy nonsense.

    Would that we had never invented the bloody thing.

    It's not just social media, it's complete silence from the police that's adding to the sense that this is being covered up somehow. The idea that there's no motive is ridiculous, they've had the guy in custody for long enough to establish whether he's a terrorist, Andrew Tate disciple or just nuts. Not coming clean on the ethnicity/religion is also giving oxygen to the flames right now.
    No, they haven't. Look how long it's taken for the FBI to dig into the Trump shooter's online profile. Imagine if they declare a mental health episode and 5 days later discover a Discord account with all sorts of terror stuff on it?
    And yet they've ruled out terrorism pretty quickly. So clearly they've got some idea. I also think the fact that they went down that route so quickly also feeds the flames, so quick to deny terrorism just like they were so quick to deny that Rotherham had rape gangs etc...

    People remember that the police and authorities have previously placed "community relations" above victims before, holding their feet to the fire like this seems
    rational in that context.
    Exactly. There needs to be a new rule. The police don’t get to rule out terrorism without stating very clearly what it is.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603
    eek said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    The Labour honeymoon is very swiftly coming to an end. A Tory PM would have handled the Southport situation better than Starmer has. He's got no righteous anger just mealy mouthed bullshit. He's got no way of stopping the idiots on the streets rioting either, he supports more immigration and more asylum seekers. He cancelled the deportation plan, he's closing the asylum ship and all he talks about is "processing more applications" or doing it faster which is just code for "accept more and do it faster" people aren't stupid.

    If Labour doesn't do anything and the next Tory leader isn't careful I worry that Reform will take 5-10 points off Labour in 2029 and get 200 seats.

    I haven't feared for the future of the country like this for a while, people in the streets targeting people who don't have white skin is the nightmare scenario and Labour spending the next 5 years letting in all and sundry at the border will only make it worse.

    And what exactly did Bozo start doing in 2021 - hint most of them are from India, Nigeria or similar countries...
    What are you talking about? Who are they and what are ‘similar countries’?
    Legal migration is no longer coming from the EU and is now coming from India, Pakistan and Nigeria (as the economy there is doing badly so a lot of nurses / care workers are now coming from Nigeria).
    Ah, it was your hint, not Boris’s. Now your comment makes sense.

    Johnson was probably the most pro-immigration PM we’ve ever had, but it suited his opponents to paint him as some kind of extreme nativist.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Interesting that the police seem to have become the go-to enemy for Far Right pissed up idiots.

    I guess law and order has been dropped from the right's agenda for the time being?
  • KnightOutKnightOut Posts: 142

    tlg86 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Wow I've never seen people so angry at a PM laying flowers for children who have been murdered.


    Liam Gotting
    @GlobalGotting
    Keir Starmer is heckled by onlookers as he lays flowers at the scene of the Southport knife attack.

    @LBC

    @LBCNews

    https://x.com/GlobalGotting/status/1818298681977606316

    Why are they angry at him? Honest question?

    I think it's because it's them immigrants, innit.

    There was a rather smart post on here earlier by someone about the way the UK is increasingly resembling sectarian Northern Ireland, with different groups that don't integrate.

    Even if this tragedy turns out to have nothing to do with recent immigration, it's clear where the tensions are.
    There’s three dead girls in large fridges at the moment who will never live the lives they had hoped for or their parents had hoped for and people in that community are scared and frightened and your posting shit like This.

    Should they not be angry, just shrug their shoulders and say ‘that’s life’. People expect to be safe in their communities. The d demographic of the perpetrator is irrelevant. Scared and frightened people in a community are just racist in your world.

    Give your head a wobble.
    @kyf_100 is generally one of the good guys on here. I think you might be misinterpreting him

    There are plenty of the usual suspects posting the usual woke lefty cant
    Thanks.

    What I'm saying in the above post is that _even if_ online reports are false, and the killer has no links to fundamentalism, isn't an immigrant, isn't even an ethnic minority... the reaction to the killing is very telling.

    People are fed up with violence coming from what they regard as immigrant communities, be it up in Leeds in the Roma community, or the Manchester Airport debacle. To name but two from *checks notes* this month.

    People are lashing out and blaming immigrants before it's actually been proven - but that in itself says a lot about how unchecked mass immigration has driven a massive wedge through our society. As per the poster earlier whose name escapes me, who commented that the whole of the UK is increasingly resembling a sectarian Northern Ireland.
    It was me on the previous thread:

    "Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.

    Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.

    However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.

    However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.

    What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside."
    Only 2% of Rwandans are Muslim, with 90% either Catholic or Protestant, so a religious motivation is unlikely.

    Cannabis induced paranoia and psychosis wouldn't surprise me though.
    Potential ecological fallacy there.

    I wouldn't rule out him being hooked on Andrew Tate stuff or something.
    My personal theory is that (if not a complete loony) then it's going to be incel related. Look at the targets.
    What 6-11 year old girls - I don’t think so and it’s not worth speculating
    I think the target is fans of Taylor Swift, just as the target in Manchester was fans of Ariana Grande.
    But wasn't the Manchester attack because being a young girl at a pop concert was unIslamic?

    FWIW, I don't think your incel theory is any worse any other. No apparent motivation really makes sense.
    Incel is a pretty good theory. He was apparently awkward and introverted, from a somewhat itinerant immigrant Rwandan family. 17 years old, no local girls remotely interested? A Taylor Swift gym and yoga class, staffed by pretty female teachers and young and mainly white girls - that would satisfy his angry sexual inadequacy and sense of social alienation

    However, I would not be surprised by online radicalisation. Perhaps Islamic, perhaps not. He seems to have been quite careful in his targetting. This was not a random spasm, he carefully selected a group of victims at some distance from his home, and in an obscure building. He must have reconnoitred
    I wouldn't be surprised if it was synthetic cannabinoids, tbh. Utterly endemic with the yoof, particularly in deprived towns. Another failure of prohibition.
    Peter Hitchens will approve of this post
    Probably not my last sentence, though!

    Make weed cheap, legal and taxable, and you'd get regulated supply at safe dosages and the tax revenue might even go some way to plugging Rachel Reeves' £20bn hole.

    Prohibition just incentivises unregulated, stronger research chemicals that are easier and cheaper to import in bulk. See also how Fentanyl has taken over the US.

    Spice is a big problem in UK inner cities and small deprived towns, and I don't think most people of my generation or older realise how much more dangerous these drugs are than the weed and pills of our student days.


    What makes you think making the less strong stuff legal will get people to stop using the stronger stuff illegally?
    Because that's how legalisation works.

    How many people go out and buy illegal, stronger booze.

    When its legal, most people just go to the shop and buy what they want.
    LOL

    You do realise how strong standard strength spirits are, do you?

    Thought not.
    Why did you think not? Yes, I do.

    37.5% - 40% abv is typical standard strength spirits.

    Some lower strength spirits and spirit liquers are 15% to 20%

    While other spirits can have higher strengths. The overproof rum I like is 63% ABV but that's not standard strength.

    The clue is that the ABV is printed on the label.

    Under prohibition over 100 proof (aka 50% ABV) was often typical.
    If you really want, you can buy Polish Pure Spirit - 79.9% by volume.

    Nearly everyone who tries this, doesn't repeat the experiment. The effects do not scale linearly.
    I have a bottle I was gifted that is 190 proof, 95% ABV.

    My mother in law who gifted to me ran an off licence in Canada and it she bought it from her own off licence to give it to me. The sales she made of it are normally into two categories: those buying it (like she did) as a gift to give to someone else . . . or alcoholics. Its apparently very popular with native American alcoholics.

    I appreciate the gift but am in no rush to actually try it rather than just keep it as an appreciated gift.

    I used to drink Spirytus (Polish Rectified Spirit) - semi-regularly, neat and in modest quantities - at a pub in Ipswich where the landlord (incidentally a Lib Dem councillor, albeit briefly) - kept an 'off the books' supply under the counter for regulars.

    When it's that concentrated, alcohol does funny things. You're almost breathing rather than drinking it, because it doesn't behave entirely as the human mouth expects liquids to. There's a purity and cleanness to it which is quite pleasant, and obviously as much lingering burning sensation as anyone could ever want.

    So with some hesitancy, I would recommend trying it at some point.

    For me it's best drunk neat, but with a cold long drink (beer, cider, water, juice) immediately accessible to the side.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    Lord Frost endorses Robert Jenrick to replace Sunak as Tory leader

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/30/why-robert-jenrick-has-my-support-to-be-tory-leader/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited July 30

    Interesting that the police seem to have become the go-to enemy for Far Right pissed up idiots.

    I guess law and order has been dropped from the right's agenda for the time being?

    For them the police are now just woke enforcement agents on the whole now
This discussion has been closed.