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PB Predictions Competition 2024 – July update – politicalbetting.com

245

Comments

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Odds on Biden being the Democrat nominee on betfair shifting quite a bit today.

    1.54 @1pm

    To

    1.92 @5pm

    There’s some good money to be made day trading that market at the moment, following the ups and downs of a party and media elite tearing itself apart.
    I think it's almost inevitable that Biden goes now. The only question is when it happens.
    Unless another Democrat starts polling significantly better v Trump than Biden does and is willing to run and challenge Biden at the convention it certainly isn't
    Every time Biden goes up on stage, he will perform a little bit worse, because that is the nature of mental decline. And Americans are not electing a President to take them through to Christmas, they are electing one who is expected to be compis mentis through to the end of 2028.

    The comparison with even the video reel of him the White House released in February is quite marked.
    I’m fairly sure he’s capable of discharging the duties of his office for the next four months - but four years ? No.
    It is beyond stupid.

    The Dems are condemning the rest of the world to Trump 2.0 chaos and danger because they don't want to upset an old man and his stupidly ambitious wife.

    The NY Times opinion writers and board all have it right.

    I'm fucking :rage:
    Except the polls show you are not correct.

    Redfield:
    Biden 42% Trump 43%
    Harris 37% Trump 44%

    Yougov:
    Biden 40% Trump 43%
    Harris 38% Trump 42%

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    Emerson:
    President Biden: 46% Trump 43% Biden, 11% undecided
    Vice President Kamala Harris: 49% Trump, 43% Harris, 8% undecided
    Senator Bernie Sanders: 48% Trump, 42% Sanders, 10% undecided
    California Governor Gavin Newsom: 48% Trump, 40% Newsom, 12% undecided
    Former Vice President Al Gore: 47% Trump, 42% Gore, 11% undecided
    Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton: 48% Trump, 41% Clinton, 11% undecided
    Senator Elizabeth Warren: 49% Trump, 39% Warren, 13% undecided
    Secretary of State Pete Buttigieg: 49% Trump, 39% Buttigieg, 12% undecided
    Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro: 46% Trump, 38% Shapiro, 16% undecided
    Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer: 48% Trump, 38% Whitmer, 15% undecided
    https://emersoncollegepolling.com/july-2024-national-poll-trump-46-biden-43/
    You keep quoting this stuff and it is utterly meaningless. It is based on a theoretical situation not reality. If someone takes over from Biden then those percentages will change dramatically.

    Currently if Biden is the candidate in November then Trump will win. We all know that. Just some people are too set in their ways to admit it.
    Yep.

    And those aren't going to be Biden's numbers once we get to the autumn and voters have to focus seriously on the campaign and who will be in WH for next FOUR years. Those numbers will be in freefall imho.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655
    SKS just met Biden

    He told him his Dad was a Toolmaker

    Bidens eyes appeared to glaze over

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655

    SKS just met Biden

    He told him his Dad was a Toolmaker

    Bidens eyes appeared to glaze over

    SKS / Biden fans please explain!
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,485

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Odds on Biden being the Democrat nominee on betfair shifting quite a bit today.

    1.54 @1pm

    To

    1.92 @5pm

    There’s some good money to be made day trading that market at the moment, following the ups and downs of a party and media elite tearing itself apart.
    I think it's almost inevitable that Biden goes now. The only question is when it happens.
    Unless another Democrat starts polling significantly better v Trump than Biden does and is willing to run and challenge Biden at the convention it certainly isn't
    Every time Biden goes up on stage, he will perform a little bit worse, because that is the nature of mental decline. And Americans are not electing a President to take them through to Christmas, they are electing one who is expected to be compis mentis through to the end of 2028.

    The comparison with even the video reel of him the White House released in February is quite marked.
    I’m fairly sure he’s capable of discharging the duties of his office for the next four months - but four years ? No.
    It is beyond stupid.

    The Dems are condemning the rest of the world to Trump 2.0 chaos and danger because they don't want to upset an old man and his stupidly ambitious wife.

    The NY Times opinion writers and board all have it right.

    I'm fucking :rage:
    Except the polls show you are not correct.

    Redfield:
    Biden 42% Trump 43%
    Harris 37% Trump 44%

    Yougov:
    Biden 40% Trump 43%
    Harris 38% Trump 42%

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    Emerson:
    President Biden: 46% Trump 43% Biden, 11% undecided
    Vice President Kamala Harris: 49% Trump, 43% Harris, 8% undecided
    Senator Bernie Sanders: 48% Trump, 42% Sanders, 10% undecided
    California Governor Gavin Newsom: 48% Trump, 40% Newsom, 12% undecided
    Former Vice President Al Gore: 47% Trump, 42% Gore, 11% undecided
    Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton: 48% Trump, 41% Clinton, 11% undecided
    Senator Elizabeth Warren: 49% Trump, 39% Warren, 13% undecided
    Secretary of State Pete Buttigieg: 49% Trump, 39% Buttigieg, 12% undecided
    Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro: 46% Trump, 38% Shapiro, 16% undecided
    Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer: 48% Trump, 38% Whitmer, 15% undecided
    https://emersoncollegepolling.com/july-2024-national-poll-trump-46-biden-43/
    You keep quoting this stuff and it is utterly meaningless. It is based on a theoretical situation not reality. If someone takes over from Biden then those percentages will change dramatically.

    Currently if Biden is the candidate in November then Trump will win. We all know that. Just some people are too set in their ways to admit it.
    Yep.

    And those aren't going to be Biden's numbers once we get to the autumn and voters have to focus seriously on the campaign and who will be in WH for next FOUR years. Those numbers will be in freefall imho.
    Yes. They just need to calculate the following:

    Is there a good chance Biden’s polling v Trump will fall from now to November.

    Is there a good chance we can boost Harris’ polling before November.

    Yes and Yes so the answer is there really.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,207
    edited July 10

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Odds on Biden being the Democrat nominee on betfair shifting quite a bit today.

    1.54 @1pm

    To

    1.92 @5pm

    There’s some good money to be made day trading that market at the moment, following the ups and downs of a party and media elite tearing itself apart.
    I think it's almost inevitable that Biden goes now. The only question is when it happens.
    Unless another Democrat starts polling significantly better v Trump than Biden does and is willing to run and challenge Biden at the convention it certainly isn't
    Every time Biden goes up on stage, he will perform a little bit worse, because that is the nature of mental decline. And Americans are not electing a President to take them through to Christmas, they are electing one who is expected to be compis mentis through to the end of 2028.

    Would a President Biden in a coma on a life support machine be better than a compis mentis President Trump? 50% of Americans probably think so
    Trump isn't compis mentis either.

    I think it leads to a general WTF election.
    That's the other elephant in the room, of course.

    Doesn't matter exactly what's wrong with Biden, he's getting old enough that he's doddery enough that he really shouldn't be a candidate. But he's a doddery old bloke with decent instincts.

    Whereas his opponent is a doddery old bloke with terrible instincts and a felony record and there's no question that his behaviour in January 2021 should rule him out of public life.

    This ought to be obvious, but it isn't to the Republican Party.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,400

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Odds on Biden being the Democrat nominee on betfair shifting quite a bit today.

    1.54 @1pm

    To

    1.92 @5pm

    There’s some good money to be made day trading that market at the moment, following the ups and downs of a party and media elite tearing itself apart.
    I think it's almost inevitable that Biden goes now. The only question is when it happens.
    Unless another Democrat starts polling significantly better v Trump than Biden does and is willing to run and challenge Biden at the convention it certainly isn't
    Every time Biden goes up on stage, he will perform a little bit worse, because that is the nature of mental decline. And Americans are not electing a President to take them through to Christmas, they are electing one who is expected to be compis mentis through to the end of 2028.

    The comparison with even the video reel of him the White House released in February is quite marked.
    I’m fairly sure he’s capable of discharging the duties of his office for the next four months - but four years ? No.
    It is beyond stupid.

    The Dems are condemning the rest of the world to Trump 2.0 chaos and danger because they don't want to upset an old man and his stupidly ambitious wife.

    The NY Times opinion writers and board all have it right.

    I'm fucking :rage:
    Except the polls show you are not correct.

    Redfield:
    Biden 42% Trump 43%
    Harris 37% Trump 44%

    Yougov:
    Biden 40% Trump 43%
    Harris 38% Trump 42%

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    Emerson:
    President Biden: 46% Trump 43% Biden, 11% undecided
    Vice President Kamala Harris: 49% Trump, 43% Harris, 8% undecided
    Senator Bernie Sanders: 48% Trump, 42% Sanders, 10% undecided
    California Governor Gavin Newsom: 48% Trump, 40% Newsom, 12% undecided
    Former Vice President Al Gore: 47% Trump, 42% Gore, 11% undecided
    Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton: 48% Trump, 41% Clinton, 11% undecided
    Senator Elizabeth Warren: 49% Trump, 39% Warren, 13% undecided
    Secretary of State Pete Buttigieg: 49% Trump, 39% Buttigieg, 12% undecided
    Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro: 46% Trump, 38% Shapiro, 16% undecided
    Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer: 48% Trump, 38% Whitmer, 15% undecided
    https://emersoncollegepolling.com/july-2024-national-poll-trump-46-biden-43/
    You keep quoting this stuff and it is utterly meaningless. It is based on a theoretical situation not reality. If someone takes over from Biden then those percentages will change dramatically.

    Currently if Biden is the candidate in November then Trump will win. We all know that. Just some people are too set in their ways to admit it.
    Kamala is far closer to a Hillary Clinton than a Barack Obama.

    Swing states would hate her.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Thangam Debbonaire says she was “collateral damage” because of Gaza

    https://x.com/channel4news/status/1811069277086097878

    I suspect she is right. Shame really because she struck as being competent. Although the less than impressive pansexual Carla seems very exotic.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    10m
    Had been rumours of a “Dream Ticket” between Tom Tugendhat and Priti Patel. But am told Priti is now running in her own right. As I said earlier in the year, she’s significantly underpriced.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,261
    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/suellabraverman/status/1811060446494925107

    I’d be interested in knowing whether Kemi thinks I’m having a “very public nervous breakdown”.

    #honesty #unity #wedontleak

    • "Electorate, tell your Aunty Kemi she smells of poo"
    • "Aunty Kemi, Aunty Suella says you smell of poo"
    • "Tell her she does it with the dustman"
    • "Aunty Suella, Aunty Kemi says you do it with the dustman!"
    Worst. Divorce. Evah.


    If you think it's kicking off now, wait until Kemi becomes leader and one of her first acts is to throw Suella out of the Party...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,097
    Ok Springsteen then. The Rust Belt will decide this in November and he just IS the Rust Belt. Solid DEM credentials, plus he's a natural. He was Born to Run.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,207

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    But who, and how?

    One of the downsides of the Spectator-Guido-GBNews right wing media ecosystem is that it needs Drama as its business model.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,579
    https://x.com/rachelvscott/status/1811078212153139417

    Speaker Pelosi tells me Biden can win

    She says she won’t make comments in the hallway about “the fate of our nation”

    When I asked if Biden should run she said

    “Am I speaking English to you? I’m not going to be making any statements about any of that right now in the hallway..”
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687

    https://x.com/rachelvscott/status/1811078212153139417

    Speaker Pelosi tells me Biden can win

    She says she won’t make comments in the hallway about “the fate of our nation”

    When I asked if Biden should run she said

    “Am I speaking English to you? I’m not going to be making any statements about any of that right now in the hallway..”

    Let's put her down as a 'maybe'.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,400

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    But who, and how?

    One of the downsides of the Spectator-Guido-GBNews right wing media ecosystem is that it needs Drama as its business model.
    Cleverly or Hunt would be my picks.

    I don't think the Spectator would be unreasonable.

    There's something about good old fashioned leadership here: someone has to go out there and argue their case, and the core case has to be the Conservatives restore their reputation as pragmatic patriotic realists who are a safe pair of hands and a natural party of government.

    We don't want to repeat the three-leader hat trick of last time before we get there all over again.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    SKS just met Biden

    Bidens eyes appeared to glaze over

    I suspect Biden's eyes glaze over everyday between lunch and his siesta.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,568
    One in four MEPs is implicated in judicial cases or scandals:

    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2024/02/02/one-in-four-meps-are-implicated-in-judicial-cases-or-scandals_6486917_8.html

    Up there with MP's expenses for scale.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,400

    https://x.com/rachelvscott/status/1811078212153139417

    Speaker Pelosi tells me Biden can win

    She says she won’t make comments in the hallway about “the fate of our nation”

    When I asked if Biden should run she said

    “Am I speaking English to you? I’m not going to be making any statements about any of that right now in the hallway..”

    She should step down as well.

    Can't stand her.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,796
    kinabalu said:

    Ok Springsteen then. The Rust Belt will decide this in November and he just IS the Rust Belt. Solid DEM credentials, plus he's a natural. He was Born to Run.

    You’re just dancing in the dark. You’ve no idea what he thinks about anything or even what he has thought about.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,160

    https://x.com/rachelvscott/status/1811078212153139417

    Speaker Pelosi tells me Biden can win

    She says she won’t make comments in the hallway about “the fate of our nation”

    When I asked if Biden should run she said

    “Am I speaking English to you? I’m not going to be making any statements about any of that right now in the hallway..”

    Reverse reverse !
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,400

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Odds on Biden being the Democrat nominee on betfair shifting quite a bit today.

    1.54 @1pm

    To

    1.92 @5pm

    There’s some good money to be made day trading that market at the moment, following the ups and downs of a party and media elite tearing itself apart.
    I think it's almost inevitable that Biden goes now. The only question is when it happens.
    Unless another Democrat starts polling significantly better v Trump than Biden does and is willing to run and challenge Biden at the convention it certainly isn't
    Every time Biden goes up on stage, he will perform a little bit worse, because that is the nature of mental decline. And Americans are not electing a President to take them through to Christmas, they are electing one who is expected to be compis mentis through to the end of 2028.

    The comparison with even the video reel of him the White House released in February is quite marked.
    I’m fairly sure he’s capable of discharging the duties of his office for the next four months - but four years ? No.
    It is beyond stupid.

    The Dems are condemning the rest of the world to Trump 2.0 chaos and danger because they don't want to upset an old man and his stupidly ambitious wife.

    The NY Times opinion writers and board all have it right.

    I'm fucking :rage:
    Except the polls show you are not correct.

    Redfield:
    Biden 42% Trump 43%
    Harris 37% Trump 44%

    Yougov:
    Biden 40% Trump 43%
    Harris 38% Trump 42%

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    Emerson:
    President Biden: 46% Trump 43% Biden, 11% undecided
    Vice President Kamala Harris: 49% Trump, 43% Harris, 8% undecided
    Senator Bernie Sanders: 48% Trump, 42% Sanders, 10% undecided
    California Governor Gavin Newsom: 48% Trump, 40% Newsom, 12% undecided
    Former Vice President Al Gore: 47% Trump, 42% Gore, 11% undecided
    Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton: 48% Trump, 41% Clinton, 11% undecided
    Senator Elizabeth Warren: 49% Trump, 39% Warren, 13% undecided
    Secretary of State Pete Buttigieg: 49% Trump, 39% Buttigieg, 12% undecided
    Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro: 46% Trump, 38% Shapiro, 16% undecided
    Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer: 48% Trump, 38% Whitmer, 15% undecided
    https://emersoncollegepolling.com/july-2024-national-poll-trump-46-biden-43/
    You keep quoting this stuff and it is utterly meaningless. It is based on a theoretical situation not reality. If someone takes over from Biden then those percentages will change dramatically.

    Currently if Biden is the candidate in November then Trump will win. We all know that. Just some people are too set in their ways to admit it.
    Yep.

    And those aren't going to be Biden's numbers once we get to the autumn and voters have to focus seriously on the campaign and who will be in WH for next FOUR years. Those numbers will be in freefall imho.
    The reason Biden doesn't think it matters is because he's up against Trump.

    Doddery safe old fart beats narcissistic reckless psychopath.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,110

    https://x.com/rachelvscott/status/1811078212153139417

    Speaker Pelosi tells me Biden can win

    She says she won’t make comments in the hallway about “the fate of our nation”

    When I asked if Biden should run she said

    “Am I speaking English to you? I’m not going to be making any statements about any of that right now in the hallway..”

    She should step down as well.

    Can't stand her.
    She has stood down. The "Speaker" title is honorific.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 964
    Pulpstar said:

    https://x.com/rachelvscott/status/1811078212153139417

    Speaker Pelosi tells me Biden can win

    She says she won’t make comments in the hallway about “the fate of our nation”

    When I asked if Biden should run she said

    “Am I speaking English to you? I’m not going to be making any statements about any of that right now in the hallway..”

    Reverse reverse !
    That's not giving her full support.

    I think she will convince him to quit
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,485

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    But who, and how?

    One of the downsides of the Spectator-Guido-GBNews right wing media ecosystem is that it needs Drama as its business model.
    Cleverly or Hunt would be my picks.

    I don't think the Spectator would be unreasonable.

    There's something about good old fashioned leadership here: someone has to go out there and argue their case, and the core case has to be the Conservatives restore their reputation as pragmatic patriotic realists who are a safe pair of hands and a natural party of government.

    We don't want to repeat the three-leader hat trick of last time before we get there all over again.
    I wouldn’t mind Hunt as Chairman as he’s intelligent and sensible enough to rip things up and reorganise CCHQ behind the scenes and ensure that at the next election they have the best possible candidates and some party discipline. He’s also measured if put up on the Today programme.

    Geoffrey Cox as Chief Whip with a Licence to Bellow at naughty MPs.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,400
    rcs1000 said:

    https://x.com/rachelvscott/status/1811078212153139417

    Speaker Pelosi tells me Biden can win

    She says she won’t make comments in the hallway about “the fate of our nation”

    When I asked if Biden should run she said

    “Am I speaking English to you? I’m not going to be making any statements about any of that right now in the hallway..”

    She should step down as well.

    Can't stand her.
    She has stood down. The "Speaker" title is honorific.
    She should stand down a bit further.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,097

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    You need a Keir Starmer. Con the members with some juicy right wing rhetoric, become leader, then execute The Project - of becoming serious, moderate and electable again.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,110

    SKS just met Biden

    Bidens eyes appeared to glaze over

    I suspect Biden's eyes glaze over everyday between lunch and his siesta.
    Also, between breakfast and lunch. And he usually goes to bed for the night straight after tea.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 964
    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ok Springsteen then. The Rust Belt will decide this in November and he just IS the Rust Belt. Solid DEM credentials, plus he's a natural. He was Born to Run.

    You’re just dancing in the dark. You’ve no idea what he thinks about anything or even what he has thought about.
    Has to be Whitmer. Midwest, popular, young etc
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,400
    Oasis.

    Thought they were good in 1996. Amazing.

    Now, I'm like "meh" and realise they can't really sing.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 10
    I wonder if Cameron creating A lists based on anatomical characteristics and foisting them on the membership is wholly unconnected with the dearth of talent in the Parliamentary Tory Party?

  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 964
    Nunu5 said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ok Springsteen then. The Rust Belt will decide this in November and he just IS the Rust Belt. Solid DEM credentials, plus he's a natural. He was Born to Run.

    You’re just dancing in the dark. You’ve no idea what he thinks about anything or even what he has thought about.
    Has to be Whitmer. Midwest, popular, young etc
    Not got dementia. You know all things a president should be
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655
    edited July 10
    Joe Biden tells SKS that his dad was a medieval blacksmith I told your wife when I was "talking" to her
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,400
    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ok Springsteen then. The Rust Belt will decide this in November and he just IS the Rust Belt. Solid DEM credentials, plus he's a natural. He was Born to Run.

    You’re just dancing in the dark. You’ve no idea what he thinks about anything or even what he has thought about.
    But how will Biden go down on the streets of Philadelphia?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687
    edited July 10
    Dems could well lose the senate as well as the WH if they continue sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling 'he had a cold'.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,160
    I've never seen Democrats so desperate to give the White House to the GOP as I have today lol
  • The shenanigans regarding Biden remind me of big multi contractor construction projects where everyone knows it is running two years late but everyone pretends it isn't and is determined that they won't be the one holding the ball when the inevitable happens as they will cop the blame and a slew of liquidated damages.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,846


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    10m
    Had been rumours of a “Dream Ticket” between Tom Tugendhat and Priti Patel. But am told Priti is now running in her own right. As I said earlier in the year, she’s significantly underpriced.

    Underpriced or overpriced? And whatever Dan means, which other prices does he think is wrong? You can't look at one price in isolation. As heads becomes more likely, tails becomes less likely.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,400

    Joe Biden tells SKS that his dad was a medieval blacksmith I told your wife when I was talking to her

    I wonder if he told SKS that his Dad sure did beat those Black & Tans.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,110
    Nigelb said:

    Just read the Gray article posted on the last thread.
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2024/07/tory-centre-will-not-hold-john-gray

    What a load of tosh.
    It would embarrass as a PB header.

    To say it assumes facts not in evidence is to be generous. It’s just a splenetic recitation of what seems to be his own political grudges. If that’s one of our foremost public intellectuals, heaven help us.

    John Gray is a man who is also suffering from mental decline.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Odds on Biden being the Democrat nominee on betfair shifting quite a bit today.

    1.54 @1pm

    To

    1.92 @5pm

    There’s some good money to be made day trading that market at the moment, following the ups and downs of a party and media elite tearing itself apart.
    I think it's almost inevitable that Biden goes now. The only question is when it happens.
    Unless another Democrat starts polling significantly better v Trump than Biden does and is willing to run and challenge Biden at the convention it certainly isn't
    Every time Biden goes up on stage, he will perform a little bit worse, because that is the nature of mental decline. And Americans are not electing a President to take them through to Christmas, they are electing one who is expected to be compis mentis through to the end of 2028.

    The comparison with even the video reel of him the White House released in February is quite marked.
    I’m fairly sure he’s capable of discharging the duties of his office for the next four months - but four years ? No.
    It is beyond stupid.

    The Dems are condemning the rest of the world to Trump 2.0 chaos and danger because they don't want to upset an old man and his stupidly ambitious wife.

    The NY Times opinion writers and board all have it right.

    I'm fucking :rage:
    Except the polls show you are not correct.

    Redfield:
    Biden 42% Trump 43%
    Harris 37% Trump 44%

    Yougov:
    Biden 40% Trump 43%
    Harris 38% Trump 42%

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    Emerson:
    President Biden: 46% Trump 43% Biden, 11% undecided
    Vice President Kamala Harris: 49% Trump, 43% Harris, 8% undecided
    Senator Bernie Sanders: 48% Trump, 42% Sanders, 10% undecided
    California Governor Gavin Newsom: 48% Trump, 40% Newsom, 12% undecided
    Former Vice President Al Gore: 47% Trump, 42% Gore, 11% undecided
    Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton: 48% Trump, 41% Clinton, 11% undecided
    Senator Elizabeth Warren: 49% Trump, 39% Warren, 13% undecided
    Secretary of State Pete Buttigieg: 49% Trump, 39% Buttigieg, 12% undecided
    Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro: 46% Trump, 38% Shapiro, 16% undecided
    Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer: 48% Trump, 38% Whitmer, 15% undecided
    https://emersoncollegepolling.com/july-2024-national-poll-trump-46-biden-43/
    You keep quoting this stuff and it is utterly meaningless. It is based on a theoretical situation not reality. If someone takes over from Biden then those percentages will change dramatically.

    Currently if Biden is the candidate in November then Trump will win. We all know that. Just some people are too set in their ways to admit it.
    Yep.

    And those aren't going to be Biden's numbers once we get to the autumn and voters have to focus seriously on the campaign and who will be in WH for next FOUR years. Those numbers will be in freefall imho.
    The reason Biden doesn't think it matters is because he's up against Trump.

    Doddery safe old fart beats narcissistic reckless psychopath.
    But he doesn't.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,059
    GIN1138 said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/suellabraverman/status/1811060446494925107

    I’d be interested in knowing whether Kemi thinks I’m having a “very public nervous breakdown”.

    #honesty #unity #wedontleak

    • "Electorate, tell your Aunty Kemi she smells of poo"
    • "Aunty Kemi, Aunty Suella says you smell of poo"
    • "Tell her she does it with the dustman"
    • "Aunty Suella, Aunty Kemi says you do it with the dustman!"
    Worst. Divorce. Evah.


    If you think it's kicking off now, wait until Kemi becomes leader and one of her first acts is to throw Suella out of the Party...
    ...begun, the Tory Wars have
  • Joe Biden tells SKS that his dad was a medieval blacksmith I told your wife when I was "talking" to her

    Ah, a toolmaker.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,400
    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    You need a Keir Starmer. Con the members with some juicy right wing rhetoric, become leader, then execute The Project - of becoming serious, moderate and electable again.
    No, I don't agree with that.

    What members (and I believe voters want) is someone who dials down the rhetoric but actually delivers on their promises.

    Twice as hard, but the opposite of what we've hitherto had.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,059

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    But who, and how?

    One of the downsides of the Spectator-Guido-GBNews right wing media ecosystem is that it needs Drama as its business model.
    Cleverly or Hunt would be my picks.

    I don't think the Spectator would be unreasonable.

    There's something about good old fashioned leadership here: someone has to go out there and argue their case, and the core case has to be the Conservatives restore their reputation as pragmatic patriotic realists who are a safe pair of hands and a natural party of government.

    We don't want to repeat the three-leader hat trick of last time before we get there all over again.
    I've just finished listening to Steve Baker on Spectator TV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcrBV1JOd0Y

    It's a pity he lost. I don't like him overmuch but I think he could the job. He's certainly the best of the people I've seen.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,097
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Ok Springsteen then. The Rust Belt will decide this in November and he just IS the Rust Belt. Solid DEM credentials, plus he's a natural. He was Born to Run.

    Eligibility won't be an issue for him as he was born in the USA.
    Skeletons in closet though. Wife and kids in Baltimore didn't stop him getting Mary pregnant. Suburban women won't like that.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,261
    edited July 10
    Clive Lewis MP will; be source of tremendous irritation over the next five years, I'm sure...

    Clive Lewis MP
    @labourlewis
    To be sworn in as an MP, you have to make an oath to the King.

    This is what I decided to say, in protest.

    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1811047794813149231
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    Dems could well lose the senate as well as the WH if they continue sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling 'he had a cold'.

    They would lose it anyway because of the seats up
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,485

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    You need a Keir Starmer. Con the members with some juicy right wing rhetoric, become leader, then execute The Project - of becoming serious, moderate and electable again.
    No, I don't agree with that.

    What members (and I believe voters want) is someone who dials down the rhetoric but actually delivers on their promises.

    Twice as hard, but the opposite of what we've hitherto had.
    I think sorting out the wider party will be every bit as vital as who is the leader though.

    I don’t know if it’s legally possible but maybe a contract with MPs and candidates where if they break the law once elected they have to repay party funding might focus minds.

    There must never be a fiasco like the Mayor of London selection again. Someone like hunt if chair should have a solid team vetting the crap out of and interviewing and testing any potential candidate for office.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    You need a Keir Starmer. Con the members with some juicy right wing rhetoric, become leader, then execute The Project - of becoming serious, moderate and electable again.
    Starmer only got the job after the Labour party shifted consistently left after Blair left to Brown, Ed Miliband and finally Corbyn.

    Sunak is at most only the Tory Brown equivalent Tory members haven't even had the chance to elect their Ed Miliband yet let alone their Corbyn
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 435
    edited July 10

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    But who, and how?

    One of the downsides of the Spectator-Guido-GBNews right wing media ecosystem is that it needs Drama as its business model.
    The business model is unproven, though, particularly without the hope/perception/reality of government influence/contracts/kickbacks.

    Like, last time I tuned in to the Spiked micro-verse, Brendan o'Neill appeared to have been purchased, presumably for not very much money, by some nutritional supplement people. It's beyond embarrassing. I can't believe he'd be doing it out of choice.

    I think we're at the end of an era.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Pulpstar said:

    I've never seen Democrats so desperate to give the White House to the GOP as I have today lol

    If another Democrat was trouncing Trump in polls you might have a point, they aren't though.

    Lots of undecideds still and even against Biden Trump polling no better than he did in 2020 just Independents are unsure who went Biden last time
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    You need a Keir Starmer. Con the members with some juicy right wing rhetoric, become leader, then execute The Project - of becoming serious, moderate and electable again.
    No, they need a Kinnock.

    Someone from the right, who is bold enough and bad enough to take the right on, tell them straight that they can’t continue living on Fantasy Island, and to be tough with those who won’t play ball.

    Now that must narrow the field. Who’s left?

  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,485
    Was thinking about the idea of moving Biden to the West Wing set and telling him he’s still president and thought it would be quite a fun series for Ianucci and co to do.

    A slightly senile leader who is shifted sideways and the shenanigans involved in carrying on the pretence to him and keeping the reality from the public.

  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782

    GIN1138 said:

    Clive Lewis MP will; be source of tremendous irritation over the next five years, I'm sure...

    Clive Lewis MP
    @labourlewis
    To be sworn in as an MP, you have to make an oath to the King.

    This is what I decided to say, in protest.

    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1811047794813149231

    Oh God, he's such a twat.
    Why? If it is what he believes in he would be a hypocrite to do otherwise. The SDLP leader did likewise. I'm sure there were others who did the same.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Odds on Biden being the Democrat nominee on betfair shifting quite a bit today.

    1.54 @1pm

    To

    1.92 @5pm

    There’s some good money to be made day trading that market at the moment, following the ups and downs of a party and media elite tearing itself apart.
    I think it's almost inevitable that Biden goes now. The only question is when it happens.
    Unless another Democrat starts polling significantly better v Trump than Biden does and is willing to run and challenge Biden at the convention it certainly isn't
    Every time Biden goes up on stage, he will perform a little bit worse, because that is the nature of mental decline. And Americans are not electing a President to take them through to Christmas, they are electing one who is expected to be compis mentis through to the end of 2028.

    The comparison with even the video reel of him the White House released in February is quite marked.
    I’m fairly sure he’s capable of discharging the duties of his office for the next four months - but four years ? No.
    It is beyond stupid.

    The Dems are condemning the rest of the world to Trump 2.0 chaos and danger because they don't want to upset an old man and his stupidly ambitious wife.

    The NY Times opinion writers and board all have it right.

    I'm fucking :rage:
    Except the polls show you are not correct.

    Redfield:
    Biden 42% Trump 43%
    Harris 37% Trump 44%

    Yougov:
    Biden 40% Trump 43%
    Harris 38% Trump 42%

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    Emerson:
    President Biden: 46% Trump 43% Biden, 11% undecided
    Vice President Kamala Harris: 49% Trump, 43% Harris, 8% undecided
    Senator Bernie Sanders: 48% Trump, 42% Sanders, 10% undecided
    California Governor Gavin Newsom: 48% Trump, 40% Newsom, 12% undecided
    Former Vice President Al Gore: 47% Trump, 42% Gore, 11% undecided
    Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton: 48% Trump, 41% Clinton, 11% undecided
    Senator Elizabeth Warren: 49% Trump, 39% Warren, 13% undecided
    Secretary of State Pete Buttigieg: 49% Trump, 39% Buttigieg, 12% undecided
    Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro: 46% Trump, 38% Shapiro, 16% undecided
    Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer: 48% Trump, 38% Whitmer, 15% undecided
    https://emersoncollegepolling.com/july-2024-national-poll-trump-46-biden-43/
    You keep quoting this stuff and it is utterly meaningless. It is based on a theoretical situation not reality. If someone takes over from Biden then those percentages will change dramatically.

    Currently if Biden is the candidate in November then Trump will win. We all know that. Just some people are too set in their ways to admit it.
    Except they won't, Trump will get his 45-50% whoever the Democrat candidate is and it is perfectly possible a Democratic alternative to Biden could end up doing worse and turning off rustbelt swing voters he won last time
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,808
    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    You need a Keir Starmer. Con the members with some juicy right wing rhetoric, become leader, then execute The Project - of becoming serious, moderate and electable again.
    The problem is the media, the Tories have a gang of competing media groups pushing them to the right in a way that Starmer just didnt face. Owen Jones et al are far easier to ignore than the Mail, Express, Telegraph and GBeebies.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,400

    I wonder if Cameron creating A lists based on anatomical characteristics and foisting them on the membership is wholly unconnected with the dearth of talent in the Parliamentary Tory Party?

    The A-list was a list of sycophants, celebrities and proto-Wokery. Because Osborne/Cameron, and mainly the former, were trying to emulate Blair.

    Adam Rickitt was a near miss. I remember an awful lot of fuss being made about him at the time. He totally denounced the party by 2014.
  • BobSykesBobSykes Posts: 46

    Thangam Debbonaire says she was “collateral damage” because of Gaza

    https://x.com/channel4news/status/1811069277086097878

    Debbonaire and Jonathan Ashworth were two of the Labour MPs who annoyed me the most whenever they appeared on TV. Delighted they got voted out. Two rare bright spots from Thursday.

    A considerable number of others remain though....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    GIN1138 said:


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    10m
    Had been rumours of a “Dream Ticket” between Tom Tugendhat and Priti Patel.

    The sounds a bit like the bizarre Ken Clarke/John Redwood "dream ticket" from years ago...
    In which case if Kemi is a black Hague with dreadlocks she could at least get 50 extra seats even on a 2001 result for the Tories
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited July 10

    I wonder if Cameron creating A lists based on anatomical characteristics and foisting them on the membership is wholly unconnected with the dearth of talent in the Parliamentary Tory Party?

    The A-list was a list of sycophants, celebrities and proto-Wokery. Because Osborne/Cameron, and mainly the former, were trying to emulate Blair.

    Adam Rickitt was a near miss. I remember an awful lot of fuss being made about him at the time. He totally denounced the party by 2014.
    Adam R could really have put the Tat back into Tatton, he now runs quite a good gin bar in Knutsford with his wife
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782
    edited July 10
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Odds on Biden being the Democrat nominee on betfair shifting quite a bit today.

    1.54 @1pm

    To

    1.92 @5pm

    There’s some good money to be made day trading that market at the moment, following the ups and downs of a party and media elite tearing itself apart.
    I think it's almost inevitable that Biden goes now. The only question is when it happens.
    Unless another Democrat starts polling significantly better v Trump than Biden does and is willing to run and challenge Biden at the convention it certainly isn't
    Every time Biden goes up on stage, he will perform a little bit worse, because that is the nature of mental decline. And Americans are not electing a President to take them through to Christmas, they are electing one who is expected to be compis mentis through to the end of 2028.

    The comparison with even the video reel of him the White House released in February is quite marked.
    I’m fairly sure he’s capable of discharging the duties of his office for the next four months - but four years ? No.
    It is beyond stupid.

    The Dems are condemning the rest of the world to Trump 2.0 chaos and danger because they don't want to upset an old man and his stupidly ambitious wife.

    The NY Times opinion writers and board all have it right.

    I'm fucking :rage:
    Except the polls show you are not correct.

    Redfield:
    Biden 42% Trump 43%
    Harris 37% Trump 44%

    Yougov:
    Biden 40% Trump 43%
    Harris 38% Trump 42%

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    Emerson:
    President Biden: 46% Trump 43% Biden, 11% undecided
    Vice President Kamala Harris: 49% Trump, 43% Harris, 8% undecided
    Senator Bernie Sanders: 48% Trump, 42% Sanders, 10% undecided
    California Governor Gavin Newsom: 48% Trump, 40% Newsom, 12% undecided
    Former Vice President Al Gore: 47% Trump, 42% Gore, 11% undecided
    Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton: 48% Trump, 41% Clinton, 11% undecided
    Senator Elizabeth Warren: 49% Trump, 39% Warren, 13% undecided
    Secretary of State Pete Buttigieg: 49% Trump, 39% Buttigieg, 12% undecided
    Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro: 46% Trump, 38% Shapiro, 16% undecided
    Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer: 48% Trump, 38% Whitmer, 15% undecided
    https://emersoncollegepolling.com/july-2024-national-poll-trump-46-biden-43/
    You keep quoting this stuff and it is utterly meaningless. It is based on a theoretical situation not reality. If someone takes over from Biden then those percentages will change dramatically.

    Currently if Biden is the candidate in November then Trump will win. We all know that. Just some people are too set in their ways to admit it.
    Except they won't, Trump will get his 45-50% whoever the Democrat candidate is and it is perfectly possible a Democratic alternative to Biden could end up doing worse and turning off rustbelt swing voters he won last time
    They might. They might not. But comparing trump to a person who isn't the candidate currently is meaningless. The percentages will change as soon as someone becomes a candidate.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,456
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    You need a Keir Starmer. Con the members with some juicy right wing rhetoric, become leader, then execute The Project - of becoming serious, moderate and electable again.
    No, they need a Kinnock.

    Someone from the right, who is bold enough and bad enough to take the right on, tell them straight that they can’t continue living on Fantasy Island, and to be tough with those who won’t play ball.

    Now that must narrow the field. Who’s left?

    Is there a younger version of David Davis in the ranks?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,808
    boulay said:

    Was thinking about the idea of moving Biden to the West Wing set and telling him he’s still president and thought it would be quite a fun series for Ianucci and co to do.

    A slightly senile leader who is shifted sideways and the shenanigans involved in carrying on the pretence to him and keeping the reality from the public.

    Whereas the Tories have given us the opposite. A ridiculous series of PMs and dramas such that the audience worry that we must be the next Truman Berbank in a sequel.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,651

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    But who, and how?

    One of the downsides of the Spectator-Guido-GBNews right wing media ecosystem is that it needs Drama as its business model.
    The business model is unproven, though, particularly without the hope/perception/reality of government influence/contracts/kickbacks.

    Like, last time I tuned in to the Spiked micro-verse, Brendan o'Neill appeared to have been purchased, presumably for not very much money, by some nutritional supplement people. It's beyond embarrassing. I can't believe he'd be doing it out of choice.

    I think we're at the end of an era.
    Guido Fawkes was omnipresent in the late 2000s. Then something happened in May 2010 and Stain didn't care much about anti-government muckraking any more. "Muckraking" is charitable, often it was smears like Gordon Brown being too mentally ill to be PM.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited July 10
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    You need a Keir Starmer. Con the members with some juicy right wing rhetoric, become leader, then execute The Project - of becoming serious, moderate and electable again.
    No, they need a Kinnock.

    Someone from the right, who is bold enough and bad enough to take the right on, tell them straight that they can’t continue living on Fantasy Island, and to be tough with those who won’t play ball.

    Now that must narrow the field. Who’s left?

    The Tories haven't even got to the right yet, Sunak and Hunt were the centrist candidates against Truss and Boris remember!

    They also lost far more voters to Reform on July 4th than to Labour and the LDs. Most Conservative members and indeed many Tory MPs want some rightwing red meat now.

    Even Kinnock only got the Labour leadership after hard left Foot had been Leader of the Opposition and lost by a landslide in 1983
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,485

    boulay said:

    Was thinking about the idea of moving Biden to the West Wing set and telling him he’s still president and thought it would be quite a fun series for Ianucci and co to do.

    A slightly senile leader who is shifted sideways and the shenanigans involved in carrying on the pretence to him and keeping the reality from the public.

    Whereas the Tories have given us the opposite. A ridiculous series of PMs and dramas such that the audience worry that we must be the next Truman Berbank in a sequel.
    Plenty of time for Labour psychodramas to arise. Not even a week in yet.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,400
    HYUFD said:

    I wonder if Cameron creating A lists based on anatomical characteristics and foisting them on the membership is wholly unconnected with the dearth of talent in the Parliamentary Tory Party?

    The A-list was a list of sycophants, celebrities and proto-Wokery. Because Osborne/Cameron, and mainly the former, were trying to emulate Blair.

    Adam Rickitt was a near miss. I remember an awful lot of fuss being made about him at the time. He totally denounced the party by 2014.
    Adam R could really have put the Tat back into Tatton, he now runs quite a good gin bar in Knutsford with his wife
    He was picked because he was young, gay, blonde and from Coronation Street.

    That was basically it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687
    BobSykes said:

    Thangam Debbonaire says she was “collateral damage” because of Gaza

    https://x.com/channel4news/status/1811069277086097878

    Debbonaire and Jonathan Ashworth were two of the Labour MPs who annoyed me the most whenever they appeared on TV. Delighted they got voted out. Two rare bright spots from Thursday.

    A considerable number of others remain though....
    Green Carla won by a majority of ≈ 10K. The census shows there were 5K people who declared as Muslim in Bristol Central.

    Even if every one of them voted Green because of Gaza (which seems highly unlikely) there would still be another 5K to find.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edited July 10
    Nigelb said:

    Just read the Gray article posted on the last thread.
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2024/07/tory-centre-will-not-hold-john-gray

    What a load of tosh.
    It would embarrass as a PB header.

    To say it assumes facts not in evidence is to be generous. It’s just a splenetic recitation of what seems to be his own political grudges. If that’s one of our foremost public intellectuals, heaven help us.

    Yes. He risks turning into the thinking person's Theodore Dalrymple, which is sad, for he is much better then that.

    It's a bit of curse of the post-Christian society among some western intellectuals that, like Gray they have enough Christianity - that cultural version which they are so fond of - to believe in the dire and fallen state of man but not enough to see a path to redemption.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,400
    kjh said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Clive Lewis MP will; be source of tremendous irritation over the next five years, I'm sure...

    Clive Lewis MP
    @labourlewis
    To be sworn in as an MP, you have to make an oath to the King.

    This is what I decided to say, in protest.

    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1811047794813149231

    Oh God, he's such a twat.
    Why? If it is what he believes in he would be a hypocrite to do otherwise. The SDLP leader did likewise. I'm sure there were others who did the same.
    Because it's hugely twattish. Everyone swears an oath to the state or head of state. If you want to change the system you make the argument elsewhere. Man's a preening narcissist.

    It'd be like Rishi Sunak saying, before he read at the King's coronation, that whilst he's about to read out something from the Bible he doesn't agree with it because he's a Hindu.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,456
    kjh said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Clive Lewis MP will; be source of tremendous irritation over the next five years, I'm sure...

    Clive Lewis MP
    @labourlewis
    To be sworn in as an MP, you have to make an oath to the King.

    This is what I decided to say, in protest.

    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1811047794813149231

    Oh God, he's such a twat.
    Why? If it is what he believes in he would be a hypocrite to do otherwise. The SDLP leader did likewise. I'm sure there were others who did the same.
    Here's Eastwood doing it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cn05yvqx6l4o

    His colleague, Claire Hanna prefaced her oath with "In friendship and in hope of a reconciled new Ireland, my allegiance is to the people of Belfast South and Mid Down. I say these words in order to serve them." (in both Irish and English)

    Vastly preferable to doing the crossing-your-fingers thing that some do, IMHO.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,651

    BobSykes said:

    Thangam Debbonaire says she was “collateral damage” because of Gaza

    https://x.com/channel4news/status/1811069277086097878

    Debbonaire and Jonathan Ashworth were two of the Labour MPs who annoyed me the most whenever they appeared on TV. Delighted they got voted out. Two rare bright spots from Thursday.

    A considerable number of others remain though....
    Green Carla won by a majority of ≈ 10K. The census shows there were 5K people who declared as Muslim in Bristol Central.

    Even if every one of them voted Green because of Gaza (which seems highly unlikely) there would still be another 5K to find.
    It's much more likely to be an advance party of the kind of seat that went Lib Dem in 2005-10; a bit Muslim, but more so student, academic and associated jobless hangers on in the arts and drugs trades.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,651
    edited July 10

    kjh said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Clive Lewis MP will; be source of tremendous irritation over the next five years, I'm sure...

    Clive Lewis MP
    @labourlewis
    To be sworn in as an MP, you have to make an oath to the King.

    This is what I decided to say, in protest.

    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1811047794813149231

    Oh God, he's such a twat.
    Why? If it is what he believes in he would be a hypocrite to do otherwise. The SDLP leader did likewise. I'm sure there were others who did the same.
    Because it's hugely twattish. Everyone swears an oath to the state or head of state. If you want to change the system you make the argument elsewhere. Man's a preening narcissist.

    It'd be like Rishi Sunak saying, before he read at the King's coronation, that whilst he's about to read out something from the Bible he doesn't agree with it because he's a Hindu.
    Nobody swears an oath to Ivanka Trump, though.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,485
    EPG said:

    kjh said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Clive Lewis MP will; be source of tremendous irritation over the next five years, I'm sure...

    Clive Lewis MP
    @labourlewis
    To be sworn in as an MP, you have to make an oath to the King.

    This is what I decided to say, in protest.

    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1811047794813149231

    Oh God, he's such a twat.
    Why? If it is what he believes in he would be a hypocrite to do otherwise. The SDLP leader did likewise. I'm sure there were others who did the same.
    Because it's hugely twattish. Everyone swears an oath to the state or head of state. If you want to change the system you make the argument elsewhere. Man's a preening narcissist.

    It'd be like Rishi Sunak saying, before he read at the King's coronation, that whilst he's about to read out something from the Bible he doesn't agree with it because he's a Hindu.
    Nobody swears an oath to Ivanka Trump, though.
    Why would they, she’s never even been First Lady.
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 435
    edited July 10
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    You need a Keir Starmer. Con the members with some juicy right wing rhetoric, become leader, then execute The Project - of becoming serious, moderate and electable again.
    No, they need a Kinnock.

    Someone from the right, who is bold enough and bad enough to take the right on, tell them straight that they can’t continue living on Fantasy Island, and to be tough with those who won’t play ball.

    Now that must narrow the field. Who’s left?

    The Tories haven't even got to the right yet, Sunak and Hunt were the centrist candidates against Truss and Boris remember!

    They also lost far more voters to Reform on July 4th than to Labour and the LDs. Most Conservative members and indeed many Tory MPs want some rightwing red meat now.

    Even Kinnock only got the leadership after hard left Foot had been Leader of the Opposition and lost by a landslide in 1983
    Post-Truss, I put the odds on the Conservatives disappearing as a meaningful electoral force within a decade at 4/1, and their chance of ever again achieving a majority at Evens.

    20% & 50%

    I think those odds are still about right.

    Sunak & Co did enough to avoid wipeout. Farage did ok, but should/could have done a lot better.

    Starmer has quite a lot of power in this parliament, to shape his opposition.

    Arguably it's within his power whether or not to save the Conservative party.

    Interesting times.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Odds on Biden being the Democrat nominee on betfair shifting quite a bit today.

    1.54 @1pm

    To

    1.92 @5pm

    There’s some good money to be made day trading that market at the moment, following the ups and downs of a party and media elite tearing itself apart.
    I think it's almost inevitable that Biden goes now. The only question is when it happens.
    Unless another Democrat starts polling significantly better v Trump than Biden does and is willing to run and challenge Biden at the convention it certainly isn't
    Every time Biden goes up on stage, he will perform a little bit worse, because that is the nature of mental decline. And Americans are not electing a President to take them through to Christmas, they are electing one who is expected to be compis mentis through to the end of 2028.

    The comparison with even the video reel of him the White House released in February is quite marked.
    I’m fairly sure he’s capable of discharging the duties of his office for the next four months - but four years ? No.
    It is beyond stupid.

    The Dems are condemning the rest of the world to Trump 2.0 chaos and danger because they don't want to upset an old man and his stupidly ambitious wife.

    The NY Times opinion writers and board all have it right.

    I'm fucking :rage:
    Except the polls show you are not correct.

    Redfield:
    Biden 42% Trump 43%
    Harris 37% Trump 44%

    Yougov:
    Biden 40% Trump 43%
    Harris 38% Trump 42%

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    Emerson:
    President Biden: 46% Trump 43% Biden, 11% undecided
    Vice President Kamala Harris: 49% Trump, 43% Harris, 8% undecided
    Senator Bernie Sanders: 48% Trump, 42% Sanders, 10% undecided
    California Governor Gavin Newsom: 48% Trump, 40% Newsom, 12% undecided
    Former Vice President Al Gore: 47% Trump, 42% Gore, 11% undecided
    Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton: 48% Trump, 41% Clinton, 11% undecided
    Senator Elizabeth Warren: 49% Trump, 39% Warren, 13% undecided
    Secretary of State Pete Buttigieg: 49% Trump, 39% Buttigieg, 12% undecided
    Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro: 46% Trump, 38% Shapiro, 16% undecided
    Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer: 48% Trump, 38% Whitmer, 15% undecided
    https://emersoncollegepolling.com/july-2024-national-poll-trump-46-biden-43/
    You keep quoting this stuff and it is utterly meaningless. It is based on a theoretical situation not reality. If someone takes over from Biden then those percentages will change dramatically.

    Currently if Biden is the candidate in November then Trump will win. We all know that. Just some people are too set in their ways to admit it.
    Except they won't, Trump will get his 45-50% whoever the Democrat candidate is and it is perfectly possible a Democratic alternative to Biden could end up doing worse and turning off rustbelt swing voters he won last time
    No, Trump beats Biden, no ifs no buts. If you don't want Trump to win and smash up America and the World, you try someone else. Anyone else.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,651
    boulay said:

    EPG said:

    kjh said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Clive Lewis MP will; be source of tremendous irritation over the next five years, I'm sure...

    Clive Lewis MP
    @labourlewis
    To be sworn in as an MP, you have to make an oath to the King.

    This is what I decided to say, in protest.

    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1811047794813149231

    Oh God, he's such a twat.
    Why? If it is what he believes in he would be a hypocrite to do otherwise. The SDLP leader did likewise. I'm sure there were others who did the same.
    Because it's hugely twattish. Everyone swears an oath to the state or head of state. If you want to change the system you make the argument elsewhere. Man's a preening narcissist.

    It'd be like Rishi Sunak saying, before he read at the King's coronation, that whilst he's about to read out something from the Bible he doesn't agree with it because he's a Hindu.
    Nobody swears an oath to Ivanka Trump, though.
    Why would they, she’s never even been First Lady.
    Or run the government. Or, as may currently be happening, both. But the idea of pledging faithful service to Don Jr or Ivanka and their heirs and successors is about as dopey as swearing loyalty to Prince Andrew if the event arises.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    You need a Keir Starmer. Con the members with some juicy right wing rhetoric, become leader, then execute The Project - of becoming serious, moderate and electable again.
    No, they need a Kinnock.

    Someone from the right, who is bold enough and bad enough to take the right on, tell them straight that they can’t continue living on Fantasy Island, and to be tough with those who won’t play ball.

    Now that must narrow the field. Who’s left?

    The Tories haven't even got to the right yet, Sunak and Hunt were the centrist candidates against Truss and Boris remember!

    They also lost far more voters to Reform on July 4th than to Labour and the LDs. Most Conservative members and indeed many Tory MPs want some rightwing red meat now.

    Clearly you haven’t studied Ashcroft’s exit poll. The Tories lost more 2019 voters to the opposition parties of the left than they did to Reform.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651

    kjh said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Clive Lewis MP will; be source of tremendous irritation over the next five years, I'm sure...

    Clive Lewis MP
    @labourlewis
    To be sworn in as an MP, you have to make an oath to the King.

    This is what I decided to say, in protest.

    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1811047794813149231

    Oh God, he's such a twat.
    Why? If it is what he believes in he would be a hypocrite to do otherwise. The SDLP leader did likewise. I'm sure there were others who did the same.
    Because it's hugely twattish. Everyone swears an oath to the state or head of state. If you want to change the system you make the argument elsewhere. Man's a preening narcissist.

    It'd be like Rishi Sunak saying, before he read at the King's coronation, that whilst he's about to read out something from the Bible he doesn't agree with it because he's a Hindu.
    Difference surely being that Sunak could have declined to read at the King's coronation and still keep his job; Lewis had no such option.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,411
    edited July 10
    I watched Suella's Nat Con speech. It was OK. There's an interesting parting of ways emerging with her and Truss's diagnosis of the issues plaguing British politics. Suella is very scornful of the blaming of 'the blob' for creeping wokism and the thwarting of right wing policies, and lays the blame squarely at the feet of centrist Tories (largely Sunk). Truss's version is very different - she says she believed as a Minister that it was all due to the lack of political will, but her experiences once inside Number 10 showed her that it wasn't that - that the administrative state operated just as effectively to thwart right wing policies at Prime Ministerial level as they did at Ministerial level.

    Obviously it doesn't have to be either/or - both are true, but I give Truss's account of the blob more credence, because she experienced life as a frustrated right wing Minister and Prime Minister.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,261
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Was thinking about the idea of moving Biden to the West Wing set and telling him he’s still president and thought it would be quite a fun series for Ianucci and co to do.

    A slightly senile leader who is shifted sideways and the shenanigans involved in carrying on the pretence to him and keeping the reality from the public.

    Whereas the Tories have given us the opposite. A ridiculous series of PMs and dramas such that the audience worry that we must be the next Truman Berbank in a sequel.
    Plenty of time for Labour psychodramas to arise. Not even a week in yet.
    Angela and Rachel are worth watching... And the often overly-emotional Wes. ;)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,411

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    You need a Keir Starmer. Con the members with some juicy right wing rhetoric, become leader, then execute The Project - of becoming serious, moderate and electable again.
    No, they need a Kinnock.

    Someone from the right, who is bold enough and bad enough to take the right on, tell them straight that they can’t continue living on Fantasy Island, and to be tough with those who won’t play ball.

    Now that must narrow the field. Who’s left?

    The Tories haven't even got to the right yet, Sunak and Hunt were the centrist candidates against Truss and Boris remember!

    They also lost far more voters to Reform on July 4th than to Labour and the LDs. Most Conservative members and indeed many Tory MPs want some rightwing red meat now.

    Even Kinnock only got the leadership after hard left Foot had been Leader of the Opposition and lost by a landslide in 1983
    Post-Truss, I put the odds on the Conservatives disappearing as a meaningful electoral force within a decade at 4/1, and their chance of ever again achieving a majority at Evens.

    20% & 50%

    I think those odds are still about right.

    Sunak & Co did enough to avoid wipeout. Farage did ok, but should/could have done a lot better.

    Starmer has quite a lot of power in this parliament, to shape his opposition.

    Arguably it's within his power whether or not to save the Conservative party.

    Interesting times.
    Given that things got worse every time the man opened his daft gob, I think you mean 'Sunak and Co. didn't do quite enough to acheive a total wipeout.' Sadly for the other parties the campaign had a finite length.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,261
    kjh said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Clive Lewis MP will; be source of tremendous irritation over the next five years, I'm sure...

    Clive Lewis MP
    @labourlewis
    To be sworn in as an MP, you have to make an oath to the King.

    This is what I decided to say, in protest.

    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1811047794813149231

    Oh God, he's such a twat.
    Why? If it is what he believes in he would be a hypocrite to do otherwise. The SDLP leader did likewise. I'm sure there were others who did the same.
    To be fair I'm sure the SDLP leader isn't generally as irritating and annoying as Clive Lewis...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687

    Notts TV
    @Notts_TV

    Nottingham’s tram network still hopes to expand but bosses believe any extension is now at least 14 years away.
    A route to Gedling is one of the most likely options – but at least a decade of planning and negotiation will be needed, a meeting was told on Tuesday



    10 years for planning?!!! No wonder we have appalling productivity and can't seem to deliver infrastructure.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687
    "They're all the bloody same" latest:


    Jennifer Williams
    @JenWilliams_FT
    ·
    1h
    Only just clocked that Angela Rayner is going to be working out of a ministerial base in Manchester some of the time 👍
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    You need a Keir Starmer. Con the members with some juicy right wing rhetoric, become leader, then execute The Project - of becoming serious, moderate and electable again.
    No, they need a Kinnock.

    Someone from the right, who is bold enough and bad enough to take the right on, tell them straight that they can’t continue living on Fantasy Island, and to be tough with those who won’t play ball.

    Now that must narrow the field. Who’s left?

    The Tories haven't even got to the right yet, Sunak and Hunt were the centrist candidates against Truss and Boris remember!

    They also lost far more voters to Reform on July 4th than to Labour and the LDs. Most Conservative members and indeed many Tory MPs want some rightwing red meat now.

    Clearly you haven’t studied Ashcroft’s exit poll. The Tories lost more 2019 voters to the opposition parties of the left than they did to Reform.
    Yougov has 25% of 2019 Conservative voters voting Reform in 2024 to only 10% of 2019 Conservative voters switching to Labour and just 7% to the LDs and 2% to the Greens

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49978-how-britain-voted-in-the-2024-general-election

  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,485

    "They're all the bloody same" latest:


    Jennifer Williams
    @JenWilliams_FT
    ·
    1h
    Only just clocked that Angela Rayner is going to be working out of a ministerial base in Manchester some of the time 👍

    At least she is used to juggling living in two places at once.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    rcs1000 said:

    https://x.com/rachelvscott/status/1811078212153139417

    Speaker Pelosi tells me Biden can win

    She says she won’t make comments in the hallway about “the fate of our nation”

    When I asked if Biden should run she said

    “Am I speaking English to you? I’m not going to be making any statements about any of that right now in the hallway..”

    She should step down as well.

    Can't stand her.
    She has stood down. The "Speaker" title is honorific.
    Pelosi is still a member of the House of Representatives. And is running for re-election for another term.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687
    boulay said:

    "They're all the bloody same" latest:


    Jennifer Williams
    @JenWilliams_FT
    ·
    1h
    Only just clocked that Angela Rayner is going to be working out of a ministerial base in Manchester some of the time 👍

    At least she is used to juggling living in two places at once.
    LOL. I guess she deserved that one!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,809

    GIN1138 said:

    Clive Lewis MP will; be source of tremendous irritation over the next five years, I'm sure...

    Clive Lewis MP
    @labourlewis
    To be sworn in as an MP, you have to make an oath to the King.

    This is what I decided to say, in protest.

    https://x.com/labourlewis/status/1811047794813149231

    Oh God, he's such a twat.
    It's not been compulsory to swear an oath of loyalty for a very long time, certainly on grounds of conscience.

    https://victoriancommons.wordpress.com/2023/10/23/quakers-in-the-commons-joseph-pease-and-the-right-to-affirm/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    You need a Keir Starmer. Con the members with some juicy right wing rhetoric, become leader, then execute The Project - of becoming serious, moderate and electable again.
    No, they need a Kinnock.

    Someone from the right, who is bold enough and bad enough to take the right on, tell them straight that they can’t continue living on Fantasy Island, and to be tough with those who won’t play ball.

    Now that must narrow the field. Who’s left?

    The Tories haven't even got to the right yet, Sunak and Hunt were the centrist candidates against Truss and Boris remember!

    They also lost far more voters to Reform on July 4th than to Labour and the LDs. Most Conservative members and indeed many Tory MPs want some rightwing red meat now.

    Clearly you haven’t studied Ashcroft’s exit poll. The Tories lost more 2019 voters to the opposition parties of the left than they did to Reform.
    Yougov has 25% of 2019 Conservative voters voting Reform in 2024 to only 10% of 2019 Conservative voters switching to Labour and just 7% to the LDs and 2% to the Greens

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49978-how-britain-voted-in-the-2024-general-election

    Even on that poll, its 25% plays 22%, which is hardly decisive. And your friend Lord A has the balance tilted marginally the other way. The best we can say is that the number of former Tories splitting right and splitting left appear to have been pretty similar.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,579

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Odds on Biden being the Democrat nominee on betfair shifting quite a bit today.

    1.54 @1pm

    To

    1.92 @5pm

    There’s some good money to be made day trading that market at the moment, following the ups and downs of a party and media elite tearing itself apart.
    I think it's almost inevitable that Biden goes now. The only question is when it happens.
    Unless another Democrat starts polling significantly better v Trump than Biden does and is willing to run and challenge Biden at the convention it certainly isn't
    Every time Biden goes up on stage, he will perform a little bit worse, because that is the nature of mental decline. And Americans are not electing a President to take them through to Christmas, they are electing one who is expected to be compis mentis through to the end of 2028.

    The comparison with even the video reel of him the White House released in February is quite marked.
    I’m fairly sure he’s capable of discharging the duties of his office for the next four months - but four years ? No.
    It is beyond stupid.

    The Dems are condemning the rest of the world to Trump 2.0 chaos and danger because they don't want to upset an old man and his stupidly ambitious wife.

    The NY Times opinion writers and board all have it right.

    I'm fucking :rage:
    Except the polls show you are not correct.

    Redfield:
    Biden 42% Trump 43%
    Harris 37% Trump 44%

    Yougov:
    Biden 40% Trump 43%
    Harris 38% Trump 42%

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    Emerson:
    President Biden: 46% Trump 43% Biden, 11% undecided
    Vice President Kamala Harris: 49% Trump, 43% Harris, 8% undecided
    Senator Bernie Sanders: 48% Trump, 42% Sanders, 10% undecided
    California Governor Gavin Newsom: 48% Trump, 40% Newsom, 12% undecided
    Former Vice President Al Gore: 47% Trump, 42% Gore, 11% undecided
    Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton: 48% Trump, 41% Clinton, 11% undecided
    Senator Elizabeth Warren: 49% Trump, 39% Warren, 13% undecided
    Secretary of State Pete Buttigieg: 49% Trump, 39% Buttigieg, 12% undecided
    Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro: 46% Trump, 38% Shapiro, 16% undecided
    Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer: 48% Trump, 38% Whitmer, 15% undecided
    https://emersoncollegepolling.com/july-2024-national-poll-trump-46-biden-43/
    You keep quoting this stuff and it is utterly meaningless. It is based on a theoretical situation not reality. If someone takes over from Biden then those percentages will change dramatically.

    Currently if Biden is the candidate in November then Trump will win. We all know that. Just some people are too set in their ways to admit it.
    Kamala is far closer to a Hillary Clinton than a Barack Obama.

    Swing states would hate her.
    Far closer?

    Well they are both women, there's that.
    But Kamala and Barack are both brown.
    All three are experienced and bright.
    Kamala isn't as articulate as Barak but she is more likeable than Hillary.

    Hillary would have won the rust states is she wasn't so complacent. Kamala won't be complacent.

    I don't see why swing states would hate her. Any evidence?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Odds on Biden being the Democrat nominee on betfair shifting quite a bit today.

    1.54 @1pm

    To

    1.92 @5pm

    There’s some good money to be made day trading that market at the moment, following the ups and downs of a party and media elite tearing itself apart.
    I think it's almost inevitable that Biden goes now. The only question is when it happens.
    Unless another Democrat starts polling significantly better v Trump than Biden does and is willing to run and challenge Biden at the convention it certainly isn't
    Every time Biden goes up on stage, he will perform a little bit worse, because that is the nature of mental decline. And Americans are not electing a President to take them through to Christmas, they are electing one who is expected to be compis mentis through to the end of 2028.

    The comparison with even the video reel of him the White House released in February is quite marked.
    I’m fairly sure he’s capable of discharging the duties of his office for the next four months - but four years ? No.
    It is beyond stupid.

    The Dems are condemning the rest of the world to Trump 2.0 chaos and danger because they don't want to upset an old man and his stupidly ambitious wife.

    The NY Times opinion writers and board all have it right.

    I'm fucking :rage:
    Except the polls show you are not correct.

    Redfield:
    Biden 42% Trump 43%
    Harris 37% Trump 44%

    Yougov:
    Biden 40% Trump 43%
    Harris 38% Trump 42%

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

    Emerson:
    President Biden: 46% Trump 43% Biden, 11% undecided
    Vice President Kamala Harris: 49% Trump, 43% Harris, 8% undecided
    Senator Bernie Sanders: 48% Trump, 42% Sanders, 10% undecided
    California Governor Gavin Newsom: 48% Trump, 40% Newsom, 12% undecided
    Former Vice President Al Gore: 47% Trump, 42% Gore, 11% undecided
    Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton: 48% Trump, 41% Clinton, 11% undecided
    Senator Elizabeth Warren: 49% Trump, 39% Warren, 13% undecided
    Secretary of State Pete Buttigieg: 49% Trump, 39% Buttigieg, 12% undecided
    Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro: 46% Trump, 38% Shapiro, 16% undecided
    Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer: 48% Trump, 38% Whitmer, 15% undecided
    https://emersoncollegepolling.com/july-2024-national-poll-trump-46-biden-43/
    You keep quoting this stuff and it is utterly meaningless. It is based on a theoretical situation not reality. If someone takes over from Biden then those percentages will change dramatically.

    Currently if Biden is the candidate in November then Trump will win. We all know that. Just some people are too set in their ways to admit it.
    Except they won't, Trump will get his 45-50% whoever the Democrat candidate is and it is perfectly possible a Democratic alternative to Biden could end up doing worse and turning off rustbelt swing voters he won last time
    No, Trump beats Biden, no ifs no buts. If you don't want Trump to win and smash up America and the World, you try someone else. Anyone else.
    Over 10% of voters in Trump v Biden polls are undecided, most of them voted Biden in 2020, where they go decides the election
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,110
    Big football game on at 8.

    I'm confident LAFC will be able to hold off New Mexico United, but it might be surprisingly tough.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    "The problem the Tories have is that they are ridiculously addicted to Drama. I think because of all of the bonkersness that they foisted on the country since 2016. They just love this stuff. The squabbles, the leaking, the arguments, the recriminations. They can’t get enough of it.

    They run the party like a soap opera. Until they realise that people are really not very impressed with this sh*t, to put it bluntly, then they are not going to recover.

    The fact Badenoch has waded in to the latest Drama does not bode well if she becomes leader."

    This. At present, I'm inclined to vote against both.

    I want a grown-up who stamps this culture out.

    You need a Keir Starmer. Con the members with some juicy right wing rhetoric, become leader, then execute The Project - of becoming serious, moderate and electable again.
    No, they need a Kinnock.

    Someone from the right, who is bold enough and bad enough to take the right on, tell them straight that they can’t continue living on Fantasy Island, and to be tough with those who won’t play ball.

    Now that must narrow the field. Who’s left?

    The Tories haven't even got to the right yet, Sunak and Hunt were the centrist candidates against Truss and Boris remember!

    They also lost far more voters to Reform on July 4th than to Labour and the LDs. Most Conservative members and indeed many Tory MPs want some rightwing red meat now.

    Even Kinnock only got the leadership after hard left Foot had been Leader of the Opposition and lost by a landslide in 1983
    Post-Truss, I put the odds on the Conservatives disappearing as a meaningful electoral force within a decade at 4/1, and their chance of ever again achieving a majority at Evens.

    20% & 50%

    I think those odds are still about right.

    Sunak & Co did enough to avoid wipeout. Farage did ok, but should/could have done a lot better.

    Starmer has quite a lot of power in this parliament, to shape his opposition.

    Arguably it's within his power whether or not to save the Conservative party.

    Interesting times.
    If he trashes the economy and increases taxes and immigration he will revive the Tories quicker than Lazarus, yes
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    rcs1000 said:

    Big football game on at 8.

    I'm confident LAFC will be able to hold off New Mexico United, but it might be surprisingly tough.

    If Leon would come on and tip the Netherlands, and mean it, we could all relax a little.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,361

    HYUFD said:

    I wonder if Cameron creating A lists based on anatomical characteristics and foisting them on the membership is wholly unconnected with the dearth of talent in the Parliamentary Tory Party?

    The A-list was a list of sycophants, celebrities and proto-Wokery. Because Osborne/Cameron, and mainly the former, were trying to emulate Blair.

    Adam Rickitt was a near miss. I remember an awful lot of fuss being made about him at the time. He totally denounced the party by 2014.
    Adam R could really have put the Tat back into Tatton, he now runs quite a good gin bar in Knutsford with his wife
    He was picked because he was young, gay, blonde and from Coronation Street.

    That was basically it.
    God, I remember on the old Dr Who forum Outpost Gallifry a guy who was obsessed with Madam Rickitt and used to write endless, poor,,fan fiction with him as the Drs companion.

    Awful. Almost as bad as Rickitts pop career.
This discussion has been closed.