We knew that Labour needed to appoint a shitton of working peers. Interesting that Starmer is utilising that as an opportunity to install external experts and heavy hitters to his government.
Lord Timpson? Prison reform minister? Fantastic idea.
I think Starmer recognises the wisdom of Douglas Hurd's aphorism "Prison is an expensive way of making bad people worse"
Cutting the re-offending rate is the sort of productivity improvement that our criminal justice system needs.
If this is a sign that Starmer isn't interested in populist gimmicks, but rather in the hard work of serious improvement then I may change my mind over him.
If fewer people are banged up Suella will be writing articles in the Mail every five minutes.
We knew that Labour needed to appoint a shitton of working peers. Interesting that Starmer is utilising that as an opportunity to install external experts and heavy hitters to his government.
Lord Timpson? Prison reform minister? Fantastic idea.
I think Starmer recognises the wisdom of Douglas Hurd's aphorism "Prison is an expensive way of making bad people worse"
Cutting the re-offending rate is the sort of productivity improvement that our criminal justice system needs.
If this is a sign that Starmer isn't interested in populist gimmicks, but rather in the hard work of serious improvement then I may change my mind over him.
I think everyone in Labour knows we have had 14 years of quick fixes and look where we've ended up - in a far worse place than we could have been.
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
Yes, which won't do much for investment, which won't do much for growth. But they need the cash, big time.
I think aligning taxing capital gains with income tax and taxing dividends at the same rate is nailed on.
Maybe reduce the annual ISA limit
And reduce the pensions annual allowance to £30,000
And the big one. Restrict pensions tax relief to 20%
Lots of revenue raising opportunities for LAB!
I will be immediately handing in my notice and retiring if they do that.
It also will have huge repercussions for the low paid and employers.
It means ending the tax free status of income put into pensions and giving a 20p tax credit.
So suddenly all pension contributions become taxable and employer contributions become benefits in kind. So taxable pay far higher, so far more money means tested for Universal Credit and a slew of extra people find themselves in the 40p band and over the marriage allowance, child benefit withdrawal / childcare withdrawal cliffedge.
Hang on, the basic rate of income tax *is* 20p in the pound. 20%. Won't make any difference to low paid.
And this is in any case typical Tory doomcasting.
National insurance is another form of income tax too, so if income is made taxable then NI would apply too which is a difference that needs taking into account.
We knew that Labour needed to appoint a shitton of working peers. Interesting that Starmer is utilising that as an opportunity to install external experts and heavy hitters to his government.
Lord Timpson? Prison reform minister? Fantastic idea.
I think Starmer recognises the wisdom of Douglas Hurd's aphorism "Prison is an expensive way of making bad people worse"
Cutting the re-offending rate is the sort of productivity improvement that our criminal justice system needs.
If this is a sign that Starmer isn't interested in populist gimmicks, but rather in the hard work of serious improvement then I may change my mind over him.
If fewer people are banged up Suella will be writing articles in the Mail every five minutes.
I have tired eyes and read that as “if fewer people banged Suella she will be writing articles in the Mail every five minutes”.
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
Yes, which won't do much for investment, which won't do much for growth. But they need the cash, big time.
I think aligning taxing capital gains with income tax and taxing dividends at the same rate is nailed on.
Maybe reduce the annual ISA limit
And reduce the pensions annual allowance to £30,000
And the big one. Restrict pensions tax relief to 20%
Lots of revenue raising opportunities for LAB!
I will be immediately handing in my notice and retiring if they do that.
It also will have huge repercussions for the low paid and employers.
It means ending the tax free status of income put into pensions and giving a 20p tax credit.
So suddenly all pension contributions become taxable and employer contributions become benefits in kind. So taxable pay far higher, so far more money means tested for Universal Credit and a slew of extra people find themselves in the 40p band and over the marriage allowance, child benefit withdrawal / childcare withdrawal cliffedge.
They would have to grapple with the problem of people retiring early if this happens which is why the lifetime contributions limit was removed recently?. It may be easier for labour to just tax pension wealth when it is being withdrawn and/or upon inheritance.
That's already been done. The 25% you can withdraw tax free is limited now and on inheritance the tax scheme was changed recently...
We knew that Labour needed to appoint a shitton of working peers. Interesting that Starmer is utilising that as an opportunity to install external experts and heavy hitters to his government.
Lord Timpson? Prison reform minister? Fantastic idea.
I think Starmer recognises the wisdom of Douglas Hurd's aphorism "Prison is an expensive way of making bad people worse"
Cutting the re-offending rate is the sort of productivity improvement that our criminal justice system needs.
If this is a sign that Starmer isn't interested in populist gimmicks, but rather in the hard work of serious improvement then I may change my mind over him.
Indeed, it's the opposite of the Blair/Blunkett approach, more like Rory Stewart's, and warms me.
If Kendall can avoid similar popular gimmicks that don't work, in other areas like welfare , like sanctions, then we might really be starting to get somewhere.
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
Yes, which won't do much for investment, which won't do much for growth. But they need the cash, big time.
I think aligning taxing capital gains with income tax and taxing dividends at the same rate is nailed on.
Maybe reduce the annual ISA limit
And reduce the pensions annual allowance to £30,000
And the big one. Restrict pensions tax relief to 20%
Lots of revenue raising opportunities for LAB!
I will be immediately handing in my notice and retiring if they do that.
It also will have huge repercussions for the low paid and employers.
It means ending the tax free status of income put into pensions and giving a 20p tax credit.
So suddenly all pension contributions become taxable and employer contributions become benefits in kind. So taxable pay far higher, so far more money means tested for Universal Credit and a slew of extra people find themselves in the 40p band and over the marriage allowance, child benefit withdrawal / childcare withdrawal cliffedge.
Hang on, the basic rate of income tax *is* 20p in the pound. 20%. Won't make any difference to low paid.
And this is in any case typical Tory doomcasting.
National insurance is another form of income tax too, so if income is made taxable then NI would apply too which is a difference that needs taking into account.
NI is deducted *before* other deductions such as pensions contribs IIRC.
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
Yes, which won't do much for investment, which won't do much for growth. But they need the cash, big time.
I think aligning taxing capital gains with income tax and taxing dividends at the same rate is nailed on.
Maybe reduce the annual ISA limit
And reduce the pensions annual allowance to £30,000
And the big one. Restrict pensions tax relief to 20%
Lots of revenue raising opportunities for LAB!
I will be immediately handing in my notice and retiring if they do that.
It also will have huge repercussions for the low paid and employers.
It means ending the tax free status of income put into pensions and giving a 20p tax credit.
So suddenly all pension contributions become taxable and employer contributions become benefits in kind. So taxable pay far higher, so far more money means tested for Universal Credit and a slew of extra people find themselves in the 40p band and over the marriage allowance, child benefit withdrawal / childcare withdrawal cliffedge.
Hang on, the basic rate of income tax *is* 20p in the pound. 20%. Won't make any difference to low paid.
And this is in any case typical Tory doomcasting.
National insurance is another form of income tax too, so if income is made taxable then NI would apply too which is a difference that needs taking into account.
We are back to an argument I had earlier this week (with a payroll software provider) - employee pension contributions are already subject to NI but not Income tax...
Edit to add - this is one reason why pensions are not subject to National Insurance on payment because they have (partly) already been taxed for NI on the way into the pension scheme.
We knew that Labour needed to appoint a shitton of working peers. Interesting that Starmer is utilising that as an opportunity to install external experts and heavy hitters to his government.
Lord Timpson? Prison reform minister? Fantastic idea.
I think Starmer recognises the wisdom of Douglas Hurd's aphorism "Prison is an expensive way of making bad people worse"
Cutting the re-offending rate is the sort of productivity improvement that our criminal justice system needs.
If this is a sign that Starmer isn't interested in populist gimmicks, but rather in the hard work of serious improvement then I may change my mind over him.
If fewer people are banged up Suella will be writing articles in the Mail every five minutes.
And they will have Reform howling for prisoners to be housed on disused military bases, one of their manifesto ideas. The thing is though that this gets a lot of airtime but doesn't really affect how people vote, which explains why it was not a big issue in the campaign.
We knew that Labour needed to appoint a shitton of working peers. Interesting that Starmer is utilising that as an opportunity to install external experts and heavy hitters to his government.
Lord Timpson? Prison reform minister? Fantastic idea.
I think Starmer recognises the wisdom of Douglas Hurd's aphorism "Prison is an expensive way of making bad people worse"
Cutting the re-offending rate is the sort of productivity improvement that our criminal justice system needs.
If this is a sign that Starmer isn't interested in populist gimmicks, but rather in the hard work of serious improvement then I may change my mind over him.
If fewer people are banged up Suella will be writing articles in the Mail every five minutes.
I have tired eyes and read that as “if fewer people banged Suella she will be writing articles in the Mail every five minutes”.
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
Que? What have they said?
I'd expect things as early as tomorrow, or perhaps Monday. And it will be from the time it is announced. I'd suggest sorting out tax cliff edges would be good to be done simultaneously.
When El Gordo made the BoE independent, it was on the Monday.
Um - it's already been said that the Budget is will be in September / October because thats the time frame the OBR requires. But nice to see you scaremongering already.
I'd say that distinction is a red herring tbh.
Thursday, 1 May 1997: General Election. Tuesday 6 May 1997: B of E operational independence announced. June 1st 1997: B of E operational Independence comes into force. July 2nd 1997: Gordon Brown first budget introduced to Parliament.
Spain because rhey are the better team = more of a threat
Or Germany because they are the hosts so it would be schadenfreudian
I'd favour us over either in the final.
Labour landslide England Euros Emma Wimbo Harris
It's that sort of spooky special July.
BTW you know that, in the end, I really did vote for Starmer?
I could never work out whether you were geninely horrified by the idea I would do that, or playing some secret game whereby you wanted me to vote Starmer, so you enticed me do to it by telling me it would annoy you
In the end I thought "Fuck it, give the boring old twit a chance", and voted for Starmer
Also his wife is genuinely hot and I don't mind seeing her on my screen every so often
You can tell I am a deep thinker
It's my gift and my curse that I see through your shtick. The game here is to (falsely) say you voted Labour rather than Reform just so as to taint our landslide. It hasn't worked.
"Taint our landslide".
Lol. You got 33.8% of the vote on 59% turnout.
It's like trying to taint a few tins of Heinz soup that have slipped down a grassy knoll.
Smart disciplined strategy leading to a staggeringly efficient vote.
A very efficient vote under FPTP is very close to being a very inefficient vote under FPTP. Ultimately, Labour got lucky.
We knew that Labour needed to appoint a shitton of working peers. Interesting that Starmer is utilising that as an opportunity to install external experts and heavy hitters to his government.
Lord Timpson? Prison reform minister? Fantastic idea.
I think Starmer recognises the wisdom of Douglas Hurd's aphorism "Prison is an expensive way of making bad people worse"
Cutting the re-offending rate is the sort of productivity improvement that our criminal justice system needs.
If this is a sign that Starmer isn't interested in populist gimmicks, but rather in the hard work of serious improvement then I may change my mind over him.
If fewer people are banged up Suella will be writing articles in the Mail every five minutes.
I have tired eyes and read that as “if fewer people banged Suella she will be writing articles in the Mail every five minutes”.
Spain because rhey are the better team = more of a threat
Or Germany because they are the hosts so it would be schadenfreudian
I'd favour us over either in the final.
Labour landslide England Euros Emma Wimbo Harris
It's that sort of spooky special July.
BTW you know that, in the end, I really did vote for Starmer?
I could never work out whether you were geninely horrified by the idea I would do that, or playing some secret game whereby you wanted me to vote Starmer, so you enticed me do to it by telling me it would annoy you
In the end I thought "Fuck it, give the boring old twit a chance", and voted for Starmer
Also his wife is genuinely hot and I don't mind seeing her on my screen every so often
You can tell I am a deep thinker
It's my gift and my curse that I see through your shtick. The game here is to (falsely) say you voted Labour rather than Reform just so as to taint our landslide. It hasn't worked.
"Taint our landslide".
Lol. You got 33.8% of the vote on 59% turnout.
It's like trying to taint a few tins of Heinz soup that have slipped down a grassy knoll.
Are you not a fan of FPTP Casino?
Probably not right now, no.
It’s a weird result. Labours huge poll leads were fake. Reform are shafted by being spread too thin and the Lib Dems are celebrating as if they had won the election…
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
Yes, which won't do much for investment, which won't do much for growth. But they need the cash, big time.
I think aligning taxing capital gains with income tax and taxing dividends at the same rate is nailed on.
Maybe reduce the annual ISA limit
And reduce the pensions annual allowance to £30,000
And the big one. Restrict pensions tax relief to 20%
Lots of revenue raising opportunities for LAB!
I will be immediately handing in my notice and retiring if they do that.
It also will have huge repercussions for the low paid and employers.
It means ending the tax free status of income put into pensions and giving a 20p tax credit.
So suddenly all pension contributions become taxable and employer contributions become benefits in kind. So taxable pay far higher, so far more money means tested for Universal Credit and a slew of extra people find themselves in the 40p band and over the marriage allowance, child benefit withdrawal / childcare withdrawal cliffedge.
Hang on, the basic rate of income tax *is* 20p in the pound. 20%. Won't make any difference to low paid.
And this is in any case typical Tory doomcasting.
National insurance is another form of income tax too, so if income is made taxable then NI would apply too which is a difference that needs taking into account.
NI is deducted *before* other deductions such as pensions contribs IIRC.
Not if salary sacrifice is used to make the pension contribution IIRC.
Spain because rhey are the better team = more of a threat
Or Germany because they are the hosts so it would be schadenfreudian
I'd favour us over either in the final.
Labour landslide England Euros Emma Wimbo Harris
It's that sort of spooky special July.
BTW you know that, in the end, I really did vote for Starmer?
I could never work out whether you were geninely horrified by the idea I would do that, or playing some secret game whereby you wanted me to vote Starmer, so you enticed me do to it by telling me it would annoy you
In the end I thought "Fuck it, give the boring old twit a chance", and voted for Starmer
Also his wife is genuinely hot and I don't mind seeing her on my screen every so often
You can tell I am a deep thinker
It's my gift and my curse that I see through your shtick. The game here is to (falsely) say you voted Labour rather than Reform just so as to taint our landslide. It hasn't worked.
"Taint our landslide".
Lol. You got 33.8% of the vote on 59% turnout.
It's like trying to taint a few tins of Heinz soup that have slipped down a grassy knoll.
Are you not a fan of FPTP Casino?
This triumphalism is a bit icky. The last labour landslide led to the country being complicit in the murder of at least hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians, which was unaccountably fine with the sort of twat who mightily battled apartheid by not eating Cape oranges. Wrong sort of non white person, I suppose. And led to people still being in prison today on indefinite sentences for crimes worth 5 years max because of the insane undemocratic populism of good old Tony's government. I'm sure there's every hope this lot will be an improvement, but Yay! 1997 again! really doesn't sound too good.
Now, now, don’t be mean to Benpointer. He was honest enough to post that he would be happy to pay more tax under Starmer. I am certain that we won’t hear a peep from him when those extra taxes aren’t just taking what he gave in charitable contributions and become meaningful amounts and levied on wealth and assets he thought wouldn’t t be caught up in tax rises, after all its others who will pay in this glorious starmerite new world.
So allow him his gloat. He will gracefully not utter a word of complaint when the realities of a Labour gov aren’t what he thought and that all give are crap because they aren’t bespoke service providers for each and every person”s needs and desires.
I predict Casino will have the last laugh.
I think that Brexit cost my family around £5k in citizenship applications to get back the same rights as we had whilst Britain was in the EU. Annoying but one of those things. One thing I would say is that I am not too clear about the societal benefits Brexit achieved. Whereas tax rises under labour do have the potential of sorting structural problems out, ie building public housing, infrastructure etc if they can be done in such a way that does not scupper growth. That will be the test.
Anyone who has supported Brexit or has supported those that gave us Brexit and complains about Labour tax rises is disingenuous.
Rubbish. Brexit has not cost me money. Tax rises (depending on what they are) will. There is nothing disingenuous about that.
My guy here with the profile photo looking like he walked off the set of American History X saying Brexit has no impact on tax revenues… let’s hope Labour have a serious plan on education reform
And yeah first post, thanking this entire community for poll watching over the past few months, some very exciting debate, the occasional off pisteness but most of all being on the pulse enough to save me from having to download Twitter.
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
Que? What have they said?
I'd expect things as early as tomorrow, or perhaps Monday. And it will be from the time it is announced. I'd suggest sorting out tax cliff edges would be good to be done simultaneously.
When El Gordo made the BoE independent, it was on the Monday.
Um - it's already been said that the Budget is will be in September / October because thats the time frame the OBR requires. But nice to see you scaremongering already.
I'd say that distinction is a red herring tbh.
Thursday, 1 May 1997: General Election. Tuesday 6 May 1997: B of E operational independence announced. June 1st 1997: B of E operational Independence comes into force. July 2nd 1997: Gordon Brown first budget introduced to Parliament.
Scaremongering? Really?
The Bank of England is already independent. You were talking about tax changes which are budget items.
And it's already been stated that the Budget will be in September / October because of the OBR lead time..
Equally retrospective tax changes have been legal for over 14 years - why do you think David Davis / Ian Duncan Smith complained so much about the loan charge....
Spain because rhey are the better team = more of a threat
Or Germany because they are the hosts so it would be schadenfreudian
I'd favour us over either in the final.
Labour landslide England Euros Emma Wimbo Harris
It's that sort of spooky special July.
BTW you know that, in the end, I really did vote for Starmer?
I could never work out whether you were geninely horrified by the idea I would do that, or playing some secret game whereby you wanted me to vote Starmer, so you enticed me do to it by telling me it would annoy you
In the end I thought "Fuck it, give the boring old twit a chance", and voted for Starmer
Also his wife is genuinely hot and I don't mind seeing her on my screen every so often
You can tell I am a deep thinker
It's my gift and my curse that I see through your shtick. The game here is to (falsely) say you voted Labour rather than Reform just so as to taint our landslide. It hasn't worked.
"Taint our landslide".
Lol. You got 33.8% of the vote on 59% turnout.
It's like trying to taint a few tins of Heinz soup that have slipped down a grassy knoll.
Are you not a fan of FPTP Casino?
Probably not right now, no.
It’s a weird result. Labours huge poll leads were fake. Reform are shafted by being spread too thin and the Lib Dems are celebrating as if they had won the election…
I’m not sure why the Lib Dem’s are so excited. They’ve come third in seats to what many posters have decried as the worst government, the worst party, a party that needs to be destroyed. A party smashed by the rise of reform, tactical voting. A party tarnished and tired from 14 years in power and they couldn’t beat them.
They’ve come fourth in votes to real life Indiana Jones Nazis.
It must be like being one of three men left alive in the world where one of them is Brad Pitt, one is you and the other looks like Cyril Smith and you discover that all the women who Brad Pitt has discarded would still rather shag Cyril’s twin than you. And you are still fist pumping at the sky shouting “I’m a fucking god”.
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
Yes, which won't do much for investment, which won't do much for growth. But they need the cash, big time.
I think aligning taxing capital gains with income tax and taxing dividends at the same rate is nailed on.
Maybe reduce the annual ISA limit
And reduce the pensions annual allowance to £30,000
And the big one. Restrict pensions tax relief to 20%
Lots of revenue raising opportunities for LAB!
I will be immediately handing in my notice and retiring if they do that.
It also will have huge repercussions for the low paid and employers.
It means ending the tax free status of income put into pensions and giving a 20p tax credit.
So suddenly all pension contributions become taxable and employer contributions become benefits in kind. So taxable pay far higher, so far more money means tested for Universal Credit and a slew of extra people find themselves in the 40p band and over the marriage allowance, child benefit withdrawal / childcare withdrawal cliffedge.
Hang on, the basic rate of income tax *is* 20p in the pound. 20%. Won't make any difference to low paid.
And this is in any case typical Tory doomcasting.
National insurance is another form of income tax too, so if income is made taxable then NI would apply too which is a difference that needs taking into account.
NI is deducted *before* other deductions such as pensions contribs IIRC.
Not if salary sacrifice is used to make the pension contribution IIRC.
Employee contributions are subject to both Employer and Employee NI. Salary Sacrifice and Employer contributions are not however subject to NI..
However, the risk is that it would discourage companies from contributing more than the absolutely bear minimum into pensions so I can't see any changes there...
New Statesman mag, which arrived early yesterday, has piece about Bristol Central and Green fight for Labour seat.
Concludes it will be v close - a few hundred votes either way.
Green Carla has a 10K majority today.
Life comes fast sometimes...
Carla seems very vacuous, but my interest was peaked when I learned she was "pansexual". I wasn't entirely sure what that meant but I've had a good guess.
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
Que? What have they said?
I'd expect things as early as tomorrow, or perhaps Monday. And it will be from the time it is announced. I'd suggest sorting out tax cliff edges would be good to be done simultaneously.
When El Gordo made the BoE independent, it was on the Monday.
Um - it's already been said that the Budget is will be in September / October because thats the time frame the OBR requires. But nice to see you scaremongering already.
I'd say that distinction is a red herring tbh.
Thursday, 1 May 1997: General Election. Tuesday 6 May 1997: B of E operational independence announced. June 1st 1997: B of E operational Independence comes into force. July 2nd 1997: Gordon Brown first budget introduced to Parliament.
Scaremongering? Really?
The Bank of England is already independent. You were talking about tax changes which are budget items.
And it's already been stated that the Budget will be in September / October because of the OBR lead time..
Equally retrospective tax changes have been legal for over 14 years - why do you think David Davis / Ian Duncan Smith complained so much about the loan charge....
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
Yes, which won't do much for investment, which won't do much for growth. But they need the cash, big time.
I think aligning taxing capital gains with income tax and taxing dividends at the same rate is nailed on.
Maybe reduce the annual ISA limit
And reduce the pensions annual allowance to £30,000
And the big one. Restrict pensions tax relief to 20%
Lots of revenue raising opportunities for LAB!
I will be immediately handing in my notice and retiring if they do that.
It also will have huge repercussions for the low paid and employers.
It means ending the tax free status of income put into pensions and giving a 20p tax credit.
So suddenly all pension contributions become taxable and employer contributions become benefits in kind. So taxable pay far higher, so far more money means tested for Universal Credit and a slew of extra people find themselves in the 40p band and over the marriage allowance, child benefit withdrawal / childcare withdrawal cliffedge.
Hang on, the basic rate of income tax *is* 20p in the pound. 20%. Won't make any difference to low paid.
And this is in any case typical Tory doomcasting.
Wrong.
Pension contributions are not taxable income at the moment.
If this is replaced with a 20p tax credit on pension contributions then pension contributions become taxable income.
Example 1:
Earn £30k pay £5k towards Pension, employer pays £3k towards your pension. Taxable income /£25k. Universal credit means tested on income of £20k.
New regime. Taxable income is now £33k. £30k income and £3k taxable benefits (employer contributions. 20p tax credit cancels out the extra tax but Universal Credit asssessed on taxable income now £33k not £25k and student loan parental contribution assessed on £33k not £25k.
-------
Example 2:
Earn £55k pay £8k towards Pension, employer pays £5k towards your pension. Taxable income /£50k. All in 20% band so taxed at 20p and marriage allowance kept.
New regime. Taxable income is now £68k. £60k income and £5k taxable benefits (employer contributions. 20p tax credit cancels out the extra tax on earnings of up to £50k but £18k in 40% band and 20p credit only cancels half of it so £3,600 tax bill . Plus marriage allowance lost and 40% of child benefit lost.
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
Yes, which won't do much for investment, which won't do much for growth. But they need the cash, big time.
I think aligning taxing capital gains with income tax and taxing dividends at the same rate is nailed on.
Maybe reduce the annual ISA limit
And reduce the pensions annual allowance to £30,000
And the big one. Restrict pensions tax relief to 20%
Lots of revenue raising opportunities for LAB!
I will be immediately handing in my notice and retiring if they do that.
It also will have huge repercussions for the low paid and employers.
It means ending the tax free status of income put into pensions and giving a 20p tax credit.
So suddenly all pension contributions become taxable and employer contributions become benefits in kind. So taxable pay far higher, so far more money means tested for Universal Credit and a slew of extra people find themselves in the 40p band and over the marriage allowance, child benefit withdrawal / childcare withdrawal cliffedge.
Hang on, the basic rate of income tax *is* 20p in the pound. 20%. Won't make any difference to low paid.
And this is in any case typical Tory doomcasting.
National insurance is another form of income tax too, so if income is made taxable then NI would apply too which is a difference that needs taking into account.
Pension contributions already are NI able unless you use salary sacrifice.
The "we will win in 2029 because we will take over the Reform vote" thing will only happen if the Tories either crush Reform totally or Reform decide to go away of their own will. Reform have no intention going away right now and trying to crush Reform is high risk. Half way house is the worst of all worlds. Dilemma!
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
Yes, which won't do much for investment, which won't do much for growth. But they need the cash, big time.
I think aligning taxing capital gains with income tax and taxing dividends at the same rate is nailed on.
Maybe reduce the annual ISA limit
And reduce the pensions annual allowance to £30,000
And the big one. Restrict pensions tax relief to 20%
Lots of revenue raising opportunities for LAB!
I will be immediately handing in my notice and retiring if they do that.
It also will have huge repercussions for the low paid and employers.
It means ending the tax free status of income put into pensions and giving a 20p tax credit.
So suddenly all pension contributions become taxable and employer contributions become benefits in kind. So taxable pay far higher, so far more money means tested for Universal Credit and a slew of extra people find themselves in the 40p band and over the marriage allowance, child benefit withdrawal / childcare withdrawal cliffedge.
Hang on, the basic rate of income tax *is* 20p in the pound. 20%. Won't make any difference to low paid.
And this is in any case typical Tory doomcasting.
National insurance is another form of income tax too, so if income is made taxable then NI would apply too which is a difference that needs taking into account.
We are back to an argument I had earlier this week (with a payroll software provider) - employee pension contributions are already subject to NI but not Income tax...
Edit to add - this is one reason why pensions are not subject to National Insurance on payment because they have (partly) already been taxed for NI on the way into the pension scheme.
Not if your employer does it via salary sacrifice.
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
Yes, which won't do much for investment, which won't do much for growth. But they need the cash, big time.
I think aligning taxing capital gains with income tax and taxing dividends at the same rate is nailed on.
Maybe reduce the annual ISA limit
And reduce the pensions annual allowance to £30,000
And the big one. Restrict pensions tax relief to 20%
Lots of revenue raising opportunities for LAB!
I will be immediately handing in my notice and retiring if they do that.
It also will have huge repercussions for the low paid and employers.
It means ending the tax free status of income put into pensions and giving a 20p tax credit.
So suddenly all pension contributions become taxable and employer contributions become benefits in kind. So taxable pay far higher, so far more money means tested for Universal Credit and a slew of extra people find themselves in the 40p band and over the marriage allowance, child benefit withdrawal / childcare withdrawal cliffedge.
Hang on, the basic rate of income tax *is* 20p in the pound. 20%. Won't make any difference to low paid.
And this is in any case typical Tory doomcasting.
Wrong.
Pension contributions are not taxable income at the moment.
If this is replaced with a 20p tax credit on pension contributions then pension contributions become taxable income.
Example 1:
Earn £30k pay £5k towards Pension, employer pays £3k towards your pension. Taxable income /£25k. Universal credit means tested on income of £20k.
New regime. Taxable income is now £33k. £30k income and £3k taxable benefits (employer contributions. 20p tax credit cancels out the extra tax but Universal Credit asssessed on taxable income now £33k not £25k and student loan parental contribution assessed on £33k not £25k.
-------
Example 2:
Earn £55k pay £8k towards Pension, employer pays £5k towards your pension. Taxable income /£50k. All in 20% band so taxed at 20p and marriage allowance kept.
New regime. Taxable income is now £68k. £60k income and £5k taxable benefits (employer contributions. 20p tax credit cancels out the extra tax on earnings of up to £50k but £18k in 40% band and 20p credit only cancels half of it so £3,600 tax bill . Plus marriage allowance lost and 40% of child benefit lost.
Point taken. But this presupposes no other changes. We'll see.
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
Yes, which won't do much for investment, which won't do much for growth. But they need the cash, big time.
I think aligning taxing capital gains with income tax and taxing dividends at the same rate is nailed on.
Maybe reduce the annual ISA limit
And reduce the pensions annual allowance to £30,000
And the big one. Restrict pensions tax relief to 20%
Lots of revenue raising opportunities for LAB!
I will be immediately handing in my notice and retiring if they do that.
It also will have huge repercussions for the low paid and employers.
It means ending the tax free status of income put into pensions and giving a 20p tax credit.
So suddenly all pension contributions become taxable and employer contributions become benefits in kind. So taxable pay far higher, so far more money means tested for Universal Credit and a slew of extra people find themselves in the 40p band and over the marriage allowance, child benefit withdrawal / childcare withdrawal cliffedge.
Hang on, the basic rate of income tax *is* 20p in the pound. 20%. Won't make any difference to low paid.
And this is in any case typical Tory doomcasting.
National insurance is another form of income tax too, so if income is made taxable then NI would apply too which is a difference that needs taking into account.
We are back to an argument I had earlier this week (with a payroll software provider) - employee pension contributions are already subject to NI but not Income tax...
Edit to add - this is one reason why pensions are not subject to National Insurance on payment because they have (partly) already been taxed for NI on the way into the pension scheme.
Not if your employer does it via salary sacrifice.
True, but how would you identify what money has been paid into the pension pot via salary sacrifice and what part has already been subjected to NI?
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
Yes, which won't do much for investment, which won't do much for growth. But they need the cash, big time.
I think aligning taxing capital gains with income tax and taxing dividends at the same rate is nailed on.
Maybe reduce the annual ISA limit
And reduce the pensions annual allowance to £30,000
And the big one. Restrict pensions tax relief to 20%
Lots of revenue raising opportunities for LAB!
I will be immediately handing in my notice and retiring if they do that.
It also will have huge repercussions for the low paid and employers.
It means ending the tax free status of income put into pensions and giving a 20p tax credit.
So suddenly all pension contributions become taxable and employer contributions become benefits in kind. So taxable pay far higher, so far more money means tested for Universal Credit and a slew of extra people find themselves in the 40p band and over the marriage allowance, child benefit withdrawal / childcare withdrawal cliffedge.
Hang on, the basic rate of income tax *is* 20p in the pound. 20%. Won't make any difference to low paid.
And this is in any case typical Tory doomcasting.
Wrong.
Pension contributions are not taxable income at the moment.
If this is replaced with a 20p tax credit on pension contributions then pension contributions become taxable income.
Example 1:
Earn £30k pay £5k towards Pension, employer pays £3k towards your pension. Taxable income /£25k. Universal credit means tested on income of £20k.
New regime. Taxable income is now £33k. £30k income and £3k taxable benefits (employer contributions. 20p tax credit cancels out the extra tax but Universal Credit asssessed on taxable income now £33k not £25k and student loan parental contribution assessed on £33k not £25k.
-------
Example 2:
Earn £55k pay £8k towards Pension, employer pays £5k towards your pension. Taxable income /£50k. All in 20% band so taxed at 20p and marriage allowance kept.
New regime. Taxable income is now £68k. £60k income and £5k taxable benefits (employer contributions. 20p tax credit cancels out the extra tax on earnings of up to £50k but £18k in 40% band and 20p credit only cancels half of it so £3,600 tax bill . Plus marriage allowance lost and 40% of child benefit lost.
Won't happen - because why would you bother to save into a pension on that basis...
The "we will win in 2029 because we will take over the Reform vote" thing will only happen if the Tories either crush Reform totally or Reform decide to go away of their own will. Reform have no intention going away right now and trying to crush Reform is high risk. Half way house is the worst of all worlds. Dilemma!
A lot assumes that reform”s happiest hunting grounds next election are Tory voters. If Labour doesn’t take care of a big part of their trad vote then it’s easier oickings for reform than just gutting the Tories.
Labour should in no way be complacent about reform being “my enemy”s enemy is my friend”.
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
Yes, which won't do much for investment, which won't do much for growth. But they need the cash, big time.
I think aligning taxing capital gains with income tax and taxing dividends at the same rate is nailed on.
Maybe reduce the annual ISA limit
And reduce the pensions annual allowance to £30,000
And the big one. Restrict pensions tax relief to 20%
Lots of revenue raising opportunities for LAB!
I will be immediately handing in my notice and retiring if they do that.
It also will have huge repercussions for the low paid and employers.
It means ending the tax free status of income put into pensions and giving a 20p tax credit.
So suddenly all pension contributions become taxable and employer contributions become benefits in kind. So taxable pay far higher, so far more money means tested for Universal Credit and a slew of extra people find themselves in the 40p band and over the marriage allowance, child benefit withdrawal / childcare withdrawal cliffedge.
Hang on, the basic rate of income tax *is* 20p in the pound. 20%. Won't make any difference to low paid.
And this is in any case typical Tory doomcasting.
Wrong.
Pension contributions are not taxable income at the moment.
If this is replaced with a 20p tax credit on pension contributions then pension contributions become taxable income.
Example 1:
Earn £30k pay £5k towards Pension, employer pays £3k towards your pension. Taxable income /£25k. Universal credit means tested on income of £20k.
New regime. Taxable income is now £33k. £30k income and £3k taxable benefits (employer contributions. 20p tax credit cancels out the extra tax but Universal Credit asssessed on taxable income now £33k not £25k and student loan parental contribution assessed on £33k not £25k.
-------
Example 2:
Earn £55k pay £8k towards Pension, employer pays £5k towards your pension. Taxable income /£50k. All in 20% band so taxed at 20p and marriage allowance kept.
New regime. Taxable income is now £68k. £60k income and £5k taxable benefits (employer contributions. 20p tax credit cancels out the extra tax on earnings of up to £50k but £18k in 40% band and 20p credit only cancels half of it so £3,600 tax bill . Plus marriage allowance lost and 40% of child benefit lost.
Won't happen - because why would you bother to save into a pension on that basis...
The "we will win in 2029 because we will take over the Reform vote" thing will only happen if the Tories either crush Reform totally or Reform decide to go away of their own will. Reform have no intention going away right now and trying to crush Reform is high risk. Half way house is the worst of all worlds. Dilemma!
They need to think about non-voters, some LibDem voters, and the fact that a decent proportion of their actual voters this time round did it under sufferance and with no great love.
I do think that there is a good argument for restricting or eliminating the tax free lump sum on pensions. That money has gone in on the basis that it is deferred income which is why it gets tax relief at the time but is taxed on payment. Where does the tax free lump sum fit into that. Deferred income that is not taxed at all. And the money is substantial.
Wouldn't it be far more sensible to raise income tax rather than messing around with all this stuff.
It does feel like New Labour all over again.
Yes. And anyway I just don’t believe Starmer is going to spend four years trying everything to win back professionals, and then immediately attack them with this.
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
Yes, which won't do much for investment, which won't do much for growth. But they need the cash, big time.
I think aligning taxing capital gains with income tax and taxing dividends at the same rate is nailed on.
Maybe reduce the annual ISA limit
And reduce the pensions annual allowance to £30,000
And the big one. Restrict pensions tax relief to 20%
Lots of revenue raising opportunities for LAB!
I will be immediately handing in my notice and retiring if they do that.
It also will have huge repercussions for the low paid and employers.
It means ending the tax free status of income put into pensions and giving a 20p tax credit.
So suddenly all pension contributions become taxable and employer contributions become benefits in kind. So taxable pay far higher, so far more money means tested for Universal Credit and a slew of extra people find themselves in the 40p band and over the marriage allowance, child benefit withdrawal / childcare withdrawal cliffedge.
Hang on, the basic rate of income tax *is* 20p in the pound. 20%. Won't make any difference to low paid.
And this is in any case typical Tory doomcasting.
Wrong.
Pension contributions are not taxable income at the moment.
If this is replaced with a 20p tax credit on pension contributions then pension contributions become taxable income.
Example 1:
Earn £30k pay £5k towards Pension, employer pays £3k towards your pension. Taxable income /£25k. Universal credit means tested on income of £20k.
New regime. Taxable income is now £33k. £30k income and £3k taxable benefits (employer contributions. 20p tax credit cancels out the extra tax but Universal Credit asssessed on taxable income now £33k not £25k and student loan parental contribution assessed on £33k not £25k.
-------
Example 2:
Earn £55k pay £8k towards Pension, employer pays £5k towards your pension. Taxable income /£50k. All in 20% band so taxed at 20p and marriage allowance kept.
New regime. Taxable income is now £68k. £60k income and £5k taxable benefits (employer contributions. 20p tax credit cancels out the extra tax on earnings of up to £50k but £18k in 40% band and 20p credit only cancels half of it so £3,600 tax bill . Plus marriage allowance lost and 40% of child benefit lost.
Point taken. But this presupposes no other changes. We'll see.
Sorting out the Universal Credit ought to be straightforward enough (if they want to do that).
The tax liability when the change in the way it is done tips you into a higher band or over a cliffedge is much more complex and is I suspect the only reason Hunt didn't do it.
The "we will win in 2029 because we will take over the Reform vote" thing will only happen if the Tories either crush Reform totally or Reform decide to go away of their own will. Reform have no intention going away right now and trying to crush Reform is high risk. Half way house is the worst of all worlds. Dilemma!
A lot assumes that reform”s happiest hunting grounds next election are Tory voters. If Labour doesn’t take care of a big part of their trad vote then it’s easier oickings for reform than just gutting the Tories.
Labour should in no way be complacent about reform being “my enemy”s enemy is my friend”.
Farage has already said quite bluntly that he is going for Labour voters in 2029.
Sir Patrick Vallance KCB has been appointed Minister of State (Minister for Science) in the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology @SciTechgovuk
Timpson is an excellent choice for job. I'd assumed he was a Tory, though, like his brother...
I met them a couple of times at charity functions. Got the impression that their thing was old fashioned Liberalism charity - if you have money, build schools and hospices and setup charities to do so. See Peabody etc etc
The "we will win in 2029 because we will take over the Reform vote" thing will only happen if the Tories either crush Reform totally or Reform decide to go away of their own will. Reform have no intention going away right now and trying to crush Reform is high risk. Half way house is the worst of all worlds. Dilemma!
A lot assumes that reform”s happiest hunting grounds next election are Tory voters. If Labour doesn’t take care of a big part of their trad vote then it’s easier oickings for reform than just gutting the Tories.
Labour should in no way be complacent about reform being “my enemy”s enemy is my friend”.
It does assume that Reform's happiest hunting grounds are Tory voters as current data indicates. Fair point, but you are putting up a hypothetical problem for Labour against an actual and very large problem for the Tories.
As a general comment my enemy's enemy is actually my friend in the zero sum world of elections.
I do think that there is a good argument for restricting or eliminating the tax free lump sum on pensions. That money has gone in on the basis that it is deferred income which is why it gets tax relief at the time but is taxed on payment. Where does the tax free lump sum fit into that. Deferred income that is not taxed at all. And the money is substantial.
I don’t necessarily disagree but I have two thoughts:
a) they always paid tax on it at sources; and
b) let’s check where the lump sums tend to go- we don’t want to stop them if they get spent on things like building works.
Spain because rhey are the better team = more of a threat
Or Germany because they are the hosts so it would be schadenfreudian
I'd favour us over either in the final.
Labour landslide England Euros Emma Wimbo Harris
It's that sort of spooky special July.
BTW you know that, in the end, I really did vote for Starmer?
I could never work out whether you were geninely horrified by the idea I would do that, or playing some secret game whereby you wanted me to vote Starmer, so you enticed me do to it by telling me it would annoy you
In the end I thought "Fuck it, give the boring old twit a chance", and voted for Starmer
Also his wife is genuinely hot and I don't mind seeing her on my screen every so often
You can tell I am a deep thinker
It's my gift and my curse that I see through your shtick. The game here is to (falsely) say you voted Labour rather than Reform just so as to taint our landslide. It hasn't worked.
"Taint our landslide".
Lol. You got 33.8% of the vote on 59% turnout.
It's like trying to taint a few tins of Heinz soup that have slipped down a grassy knoll.
Smart disciplined strategy leading to a staggeringly efficient vote.
A very efficient vote under FPTP is very close to being a very inefficient vote under FPTP. Ultimately, Labour got lucky.
It was the plan. Target the votes where needed. Worry less about the nice-to-haves. The locals showed it working and the GE confirmed it (but more so). Labour were smart and disciplined.
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
How can you ‘tax the shit’ out of something which is already taxed in line with the highest rate of tax (ie income)?
Do tories think before they speak?
Nothing stopping the government taxing something twice.
That would be a wealth tax, not a tax on savings income. Why are we creating straw bogey men on day 0? Nobody would be more appalled than I, as a ‘lefty’, if starmer announced some standing charge on savings. It’s not going to happen.
I do think that there is a good argument for restricting or eliminating the tax free lump sum on pensions. That money has gone in on the basis that it is deferred income which is why it gets tax relief at the time but is taxed on payment. Where does the tax free lump sum fit into that. Deferred income that is not taxed at all. And the money is substantial.
Already limited as I reported earlier. And you can't really change the tax regime of money already in the pension pot so it's another item where change is impossible.
Basically there is sod all you can do to pensions that won't have serious consequences elsewhere.
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
Yes, which won't do much for investment, which won't do much for growth. But they need the cash, big time.
I think aligning taxing capital gains with income tax and taxing dividends at the same rate is nailed on.
Maybe reduce the annual ISA limit
And reduce the pensions annual allowance to £30,000
And the big one. Restrict pensions tax relief to 20%
Lots of revenue raising opportunities for LAB!
I will be immediately handing in my notice and retiring if they do that.
It also will have huge repercussions for the low paid and employers.
It means ending the tax free status of income put into pensions and giving a 20p tax credit.
So suddenly all pension contributions become taxable and employer contributions become benefits in kind. So taxable pay far higher, so far more money means tested for Universal Credit and a slew of extra people find themselves in the 40p band and over the marriage allowance, child benefit withdrawal / childcare withdrawal cliffedge.
Hang on, the basic rate of income tax *is* 20p in the pound. 20%. Won't make any difference to low paid.
And this is in any case typical Tory doomcasting.
National insurance is another form of income tax too, so if income is made taxable then NI would apply too which is a difference that needs taking into account.
We are back to an argument I had earlier this week (with a payroll software provider) - employee pension contributions are already subject to NI but not Income tax...
Edit to add - this is one reason why pensions are not subject to National Insurance on payment because they have (partly) already been taxed for NI on the way into the pension scheme.
Not if your employer does it via salary sacrifice.
True, but how would you identify what money has been paid into the pension pot via salary sacrifice and what part has already been subjected to NI?
They don't.
At the moment. Some people pay NI on their pension contributions. Others (mostly those in large corporations with the resources to set up the salary sacrifice) don't and neither do their employers.
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
How can you ‘tax the shit’ out of something which is already taxed in line with the highest rate of tax (ie income)?
Do tories think before they speak?
Nothing stopping the government taxing something twice.
That would be a wealth tax, not a tax on savings income. Why are we creating straw bogey men on day 0? Nobody would be more appalled than I, as a ‘lefty’, if starmer announced some standing charge on savings. It’s not going to happen.
Why not do both? Nunu5’s comment wasn’t specific about how they would be taxed, but they certainly think savers will be.
I do think that there is a good argument for restricting or eliminating the tax free lump sum on pensions. That money has gone in on the basis that it is deferred income which is why it gets tax relief at the time but is taxed on payment. Where does the tax free lump sum fit into that. Deferred income that is not taxed at all. And the money is substantial.
It gets people of that age spending. Removing the lump sum would hurt the economy quite badly, home renovations and car sales will both be hit. Our economy doesn't have enough spare capacity to take that kind of demand out of it.
Spain because rhey are the better team = more of a threat
Or Germany because they are the hosts so it would be schadenfreudian
I'd favour us over either in the final.
Labour landslide England Euros Emma Wimbo Harris
It's that sort of spooky special July.
BTW you know that, in the end, I really did vote for Starmer?
I could never work out whether you were geninely horrified by the idea I would do that, or playing some secret game whereby you wanted me to vote Starmer, so you enticed me do to it by telling me it would annoy you
In the end I thought "Fuck it, give the boring old twit a chance", and voted for Starmer
Also his wife is genuinely hot and I don't mind seeing her on my screen every so often
You can tell I am a deep thinker
It's my gift and my curse that I see through your shtick. The game here is to (falsely) say you voted Labour rather than Reform just so as to taint our landslide. It hasn't worked.
"Taint our landslide".
Lol. You got 33.8% of the vote on 59% turnout.
It's like trying to taint a few tins of Heinz soup that have slipped down a grassy knoll.
Smart disciplined strategy leading to a staggeringly efficient vote.
A very efficient vote under FPTP is very close to being a very inefficient vote under FPTP. Ultimately, Labour got lucky.
It was the plan. Target the votes where needed. Worry less about the nice-to-haves. The locals showed it working and the GE confirmed it (but more so). Labour were smart and disciplined.
And losing a few seats to independents was a price worth paying in order to make many more gains elsewhere.
Spain because rhey are the better team = more of a threat
Or Germany because they are the hosts so it would be schadenfreudian
I'd favour us over either in the final.
Labour landslide England Euros Emma Wimbo Harris
It's that sort of spooky special July.
BTW you know that, in the end, I really did vote for Starmer?
I could never work out whether you were geninely horrified by the idea I would do that, or playing some secret game whereby you wanted me to vote Starmer, so you enticed me do to it by telling me it would annoy you
In the end I thought "Fuck it, give the boring old twit a chance", and voted for Starmer
Also his wife is genuinely hot and I don't mind seeing her on my screen every so often
You can tell I am a deep thinker
It's my gift and my curse that I see through your shtick. The game here is to (falsely) say you voted Labour rather than Reform just so as to taint our landslide. It hasn't worked.
"Taint our landslide".
Lol. You got 33.8% of the vote on 59% turnout.
It's like trying to taint a few tins of Heinz soup that have slipped down a grassy knoll.
Smart disciplined strategy leading to a staggeringly efficient vote.
The "we will win in 2029 because we will take over the Reform vote" thing will only happen if the Tories either crush Reform totally or Reform decide to go away of their own will. Reform have no intention going away right now and trying to crush Reform is high risk. Half way house is the worst of all worlds. Dilemma!
They need to think about non-voters, some LibDem voters, and the fact that a decent proportion of their actual voters this time round did it under sufferance and with no great love.
I suspect there isn't a short cut for the Tories from the traditional route of getting previous Labour voters to switch. Maybe wrong about that.
The incredible thing about the debate performance is that since then Biden's circle and the Democratic Party have not only failed to reassure the electorate but they've made things worse with their "he had a cold", "it was jetlag" after 12 days, "he needs to be in bed by 8 pm". Biden himself has made further gaffes reinforcing the image of someone who simply can not be expected to do the job for much longer.
I have criticised Sunak's political ineptness but he now has some challengers.
I do think that there is a good argument for restricting or eliminating the tax free lump sum on pensions. That money has gone in on the basis that it is deferred income which is why it gets tax relief at the time but is taxed on payment. Where does the tax free lump sum fit into that. Deferred income that is not taxed at all. And the money is substantial.
I don’t necessarily disagree but I have two thoughts:
a) they always paid tax on it at sources; and
b) let’s check where the lump sums tend to go- we don’t want to stop them if they get spent on things like building works.
Or paying off/down mortgages so that ongoing living costs are less.
The "we will win in 2029 because we will take over the Reform vote" thing will only happen if the Tories either crush Reform totally or Reform decide to go away of their own will. Reform have no intention going away right now and trying to crush Reform is high risk. Half way house is the worst of all worlds. Dilemma!
They need to think about non-voters, some LibDem voters, and the fact that a decent proportion of their actual voters this time round did it under sufferance and with no great love.
I suspect there isn't a short cut for the Tories from the traditional route of getting previous Labour voters to switch. Maybe wrong about that.
Oh that too, but I would advise them to also start from the fact that even some* of their rock bottom 25% core only voted for them while holding their noses. Stabilise, consolidate, then worry about expanding.
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
Yes, which won't do much for investment, which won't do much for growth. But they need the cash, big time.
I think aligning taxing capital gains with income tax and taxing dividends at the same rate is nailed on.
Maybe reduce the annual ISA limit
And reduce the pensions annual allowance to £30,000
And the big one. Restrict pensions tax relief to 20%
Lots of revenue raising opportunities for LAB!
I will be immediately handing in my notice and retiring if they do that.
It also will have huge repercussions for the low paid and employers.
It means ending the tax free status of income put into pensions and giving a 20p tax credit.
So suddenly all pension contributions become taxable and employer contributions become benefits in kind. So taxable pay far higher, so far more money means tested for Universal Credit and a slew of extra people find themselves in the 40p band and over the marriage allowance, child benefit withdrawal / childcare withdrawal cliffedge.
Hang on, the basic rate of income tax *is* 20p in the pound. 20%. Won't make any difference to low paid.
And this is in any case typical Tory doomcasting.
Wrong.
Pension contributions are not taxable income at the moment.
If this is replaced with a 20p tax credit on pension contributions then pension contributions become taxable income.
Example 1:
Earn £30k pay £5k towards Pension, employer pays £3k towards your pension. Taxable income /£25k. Universal credit means tested on income of £20k.
New regime. Taxable income is now £33k. £30k income and £3k taxable benefits (employer contributions. 20p tax credit cancels out the extra tax but Universal Credit asssessed on taxable income now £33k not £25k and student loan parental contribution assessed on £33k not £25k.
-------
Example 2:
Earn £55k pay £8k towards Pension, employer pays £5k towards your pension. Taxable income /£50k. All in 20% band so taxed at 20p and marriage allowance kept.
New regime. Taxable income is now £68k. £60k income and £5k taxable benefits (employer contributions. 20p tax credit cancels out the extra tax on earnings of up to £50k but £18k in 40% band and 20p credit only cancels half of it so £3,600 tax bill . Plus marriage allowance lost and 40% of child benefit lost.
Point taken. But this presupposes no other changes. We'll see.
Sorting out the Universal Credit ought to be straightforward enough (if they want to do that).
The tax liability when the change in the way it is done tips you into a higher band or over a cliffedge is much more complex and is I suspect the only reason Hunt didn't do it.
Oh , agreed abiout sharp transitions and stupid anomalies.
Yes, as I pointed out earlier today, Labour have won just just over 20% of the electorate and under 10m votes. It's a landslide, but not as we've seen them. It is going to make Labour very timid over the next few years and fundamentally the country are going to feel the same as it has over the last 3 years.
We just don't know him. I can't think of any political leader in modern times that has been such an enigma by the time he or she took the most senior position in government.
Edit, an example: "“So much of politics has been a spectacle,” Baldwin told me. “Tony Blair with paper castles in the air that didn’t get beyond artist’s impression. [Boris] Johnson set fire to whatever we had. Starmer moves the building blocks around. ‘You can have one here and you can put another one here and maybe we should turn it around.’ It’s boring to watch but at the end of it, you get a fucking house.”
He's right of course. The result is utterly mental. A landslide off a third of the vote.
Its the classic man running away from a bear scenario though.
Just need to run faster than the other guy, and boy did they do that.
My friend really upset some fat Americans with that one on safari. They did not take the idea that my thin, fit friend would simply need to outpace the waddling fatties to escape the clutches of the nasty lions. Tour guide was in hysterics.
In his opening statement the new Health Secretary Wes Streeting has said the stance of his department will change.
The government will be honest about the challenges facing the country and serious about tackling them, he has said.
Streeting adds that “from today the policy of this department is that the NHS is broken”.
Could Bridget Philipson follow up by saying, 'from today, the philosophy of this department is that all personnel within it are lying drunken subhuman twats who are so ignorant they make Cummings look clever?'
If she does, we might start to get somewhere with the mess in education.
Labour are going to tax the shit out of savers aren't they?
How can you ‘tax the shit’ out of something which is already taxed in line with the highest rate of tax (ie income)?
Do tories think before they speak?
Well, no, savings are not already taxed in line with the highest rate of tax (ie income). Firstly there's an additional savings allowance if your other income is less than £17,500, meaning you could have up to £5,000 additional personal allowance if your olny income is savings interest.
More importantly you don't pay NI on savings (or other unearned income).
The net effect of these two features is that a person earning £40,000pa would pay c. £7,680 in ICT and NI (20% ICT + 8% NI above £12570).
A person receiving £40,000pa from savings interest, and no other income would pay £4,486 ICT.
However, I am not sure bringing them into line (which should be done) really counts as 'taxing the shit out of savers'.
Harris is betting fav for the Nom now and I agree with that.
Could it be that the Bidens out of sheer spite try to fix it for Harris and not give a chance to those 'disloyal' Democrats who've tried to get him to stand down.
Yes, as I pointed out earlier today, Labour have won just just over 20% of the electorate and under 10m votes. It's a landslide, but not as we've seen them. It is going to make Labour very timid over the next few years and fundamentally the country are going to feel the same as it has over the last 3 years.
They ought to feel timid, but we’ve seen on here certain labour superfans don’t recognise this yet. A landslide built on a vote of 45% or more of the vote is substantially different from one from 34%. The latter is a lot more susceptible to being eroded.
It is seriously disappointing that 2 such fine sides can once again not produce a goal between them in more than 80 minutes. I really don't know what has gone wrong at these Euros but a spectacle of football it isn't.
Yes, as I pointed out earlier today, Labour have won just just over 20% of the electorate and under 10m votes. It's a landslide, but not as we've seen them. It is going to make Labour very timid over the next few years and fundamentally the country are going to feel the same as it has over the last 3 years.
They ought to feel timid, but we’ve seen on here certain labour superfans don’t recognise this yet. A landslide built on a vote of 45% or more of the vote is substantially different from one from 34%. The latter is a lot more susceptible to being eroded.
Not for 5 years, and not by a party who have just had a record low vote in a GE.
Comments
This is what elections do to a man.
If Kendall can avoid similar popular gimmicks that don't work, in other areas like welfare , like sanctions, then we might really be starting to get somewhere.
Edit to add - this is one reason why pensions are not subject to National Insurance on payment because they have (partly) already been taxed for NI on the way into the pension scheme.
(Too soon?)
Thursday, 1 May 1997: General Election.
Tuesday 6 May 1997: B of E operational independence announced.
June 1st 1997: B of E operational Independence comes into force.
July 2nd 1997: Gordon Brown first budget introduced to Parliament.
Scaremongering? Really?
https://x.com/allanholloway/status/1809277229441921197
It’s a weird result. Labours huge poll leads were fake. Reform are shafted by being spread too thin and the Lib Dems are celebrating as if they had won the election…
And yeah first post, thanking this entire community for poll watching over the past few months, some very exciting debate, the occasional off pisteness but most of all being on the pulse enough to save me from having to download Twitter.
And it's already been stated that the Budget will be in September / October because of the OBR lead time..
Equally retrospective tax changes have been legal for over 14 years - why do you think David Davis / Ian Duncan Smith complained so much about the loan charge....
They’ve come fourth in votes to real life Indiana Jones Nazis.
It must be like being one of three men left alive in the world where one of them is Brad Pitt, one is you and the other looks like Cyril Smith and you discover that all the women who Brad Pitt has discarded would still rather shag Cyril’s twin than you. And you are still fist pumping at the sky shouting “I’m a fucking god”.
Matt Godwin comes across to me as spinning for Reform in some measure.
However, the risk is that it would discourage companies from contributing more than the absolutely bear minimum into pensions so I can't see any changes there...
Let me say this as clearly as I can:
I’m the sitting President of the United States.
I’m the nominee of the Democratic party.
I’m staying in the race.
Pension contributions are not taxable income at the moment.
If this is replaced with a 20p tax credit on pension contributions then pension contributions become taxable income.
Example 1:
Earn £30k pay £5k towards Pension, employer pays £3k towards your pension. Taxable income /£25k. Universal credit means tested on income of £20k.
New regime. Taxable income is now £33k. £30k income and £3k taxable benefits (employer contributions. 20p tax credit cancels out the extra tax but Universal Credit asssessed on taxable income now £33k not £25k and student loan parental contribution assessed on £33k not £25k.
-------
Example 2:
Earn £55k pay £8k towards Pension, employer pays £5k towards your pension. Taxable income /£50k. All in 20% band so taxed at 20p and marriage allowance kept.
New regime. Taxable income is now £68k. £60k income and £5k taxable benefits (employer contributions. 20p tax credit cancels out the extra tax on earnings of up to £50k but £18k in 40% band and 20p credit only cancels half of it so £3,600 tax bill . Plus marriage allowance lost and 40% of child benefit lost.
A priority for the new government is to push arms production so we can keep Ukraine going if the US drops the ball.
Do tories think before they speak?
Labour should in no way be complacent about reform being “my enemy”s enemy is my friend”.
It does feel like New Labour all over again.
The tax liability when the change in the way it is done tips you into a higher band or over a cliffedge is much more complex and is I suspect the only reason Hunt didn't do it.
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/john-curtice-general-election-labour-victory-results-7cpgvbrcs
As a general comment my enemy's enemy is actually my friend in the zero sum world of elections.
a) they always paid tax on it at sources; and
b) let’s check where the lump sums tend to go- we don’t want to stop them if they get spent on things like building works.
Basically there is sod all you can do to pensions that won't have serious consequences elsewhere.
It would be way more interesting looking at DanNeidle's list of tax reform ideas https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/1808919260300710187 and how they may raise rather than reduce revenue..
Oh and fix council tax (which I know is in that list)
At the moment. Some people pay NI on their pension contributions. Others (mostly those in large corporations with the resources to set up the salary sacrifice) don't and neither do their employers.
Its a bit unfair to be honest.
Although Jonathan Ashworth may disagree.
The government will be honest about the challenges facing the country and serious about tackling them, he has said.
Streeting adds that “from today the policy of this department is that the NHS is broken”.
71
Dafuq???
(Scratches head in amazement)
I have criticised Sunak's political ineptness but he now has some challengers.
Just need to run faster than the other guy, and boy did they do that.
*perhaps all?
(Meaning sacked next game)
We just don't know him. I can't think of any political leader in modern times that has been such an enigma by the time he or she took the most senior position in government.
Edit, an example:
"“So much of politics has been a spectacle,” Baldwin told me. “Tony Blair with paper castles in the air that didn’t get beyond artist’s impression. [Boris] Johnson set fire to whatever we had. Starmer moves the building blocks around. ‘You can have one here and you can put another one here and maybe we should turn it around.’ It’s boring to watch but at the end of it, you get a fucking house.”
If she does, we might start to get somewhere with the mess in education.
When Cameron became PM of a majority govt in 2015 on 36.9% of the vote I don't remember quite so much concern about vote shares.
More importantly you don't pay NI on savings (or other unearned income).
The net effect of these two features is that a person earning £40,000pa would pay c. £7,680 in ICT and NI (20% ICT + 8% NI above £12570).
A person receiving £40,000pa from savings interest, and no other income would pay £4,486 ICT.
However, I am not sure bringing them into line (which should be done) really counts as 'taxing the shit out of savers'.
In the meantime consolidating those seats, maybe 72 by tomorrow evening.
I guess those Brixhamites might not turn out for you next time either.