I think the dividing line between fash and non-fash is violence vs a willingness to accept the rules of democracy.
Hmmm. I did look into it a while ago. I came up with my own definition:
Order, discipline, obedience, regimentation, loyalty to one’s group, the virtue of strength and critically, investing in an all powerful leader who has the will to revitalise the social fabric of the nation.
I think Reform are some way off. To start with they need to get themselves a uniform.
I posted Nigel Farage in Blackshorts a few days ago.
All he needs now is a raised arm, and a shout of "Hi de Hi".
* Yes, this (the Hi de Hi) is how I will greet Lee Anderson across the marketplace if I get a chance whilst he is showing the flag.
Close 3 way there between Tories, Reform and Labour, pity about Stephen Metcalfe who was a good MP and a former EDFC councillor and his mother a Buckhurst Hill county councillor
Just think, if the Tories had taken the gloves off and attacked Reform, instead of pretending they were fellow travellers, how many more seats would they have won?
Absolutely. Anyone with the political brain of a bird would have realised that. Except the recently ex-PM it seems. They even gave him opportunity to fight back with Farage attacking his background.
You do have to ask: what the FUCK were they thinking?
He clearly lacked political nous but isn`t what what Isaac Levido and others supposed to be good at? Potentially lots of seats lost with own goals.
How many tory ex-mps who lapped up and whooped over the arrival of GB News and the BBC's endless Farage exposure are now having regrets?
If Channel 4 hadn`t done an expose` of the Clacton activists, Con would have been sub 100 I think.
That and Ukraine. I think it probably increased hand sitting from those that probably would have made a protest vote for Reform.
For all the talk, the UK population liking for real extremists isn't very large, in the way France, Germany, Italy, do. It will have made a decent chunk of people not vote Reform on the day, and given how low the Tory vote was, I think it was not vote, rather than Polly nosepeg.
Still taking the piss, I see, with their absurdly small number of constituents. Gotta love the Western Isles!
2024 really is the death of Scottish independence, for a generation. Thankfully
Swinney was back on it in about 10 minutes.
Indeed, but doing it from a poosition of abject weakness, not strength like Salmond or Sturgeon. It was like a corpse still showing muscle spasms, as the muscle-fibres contract
I've no doubt a lot of Scotch people still dream of indy, and will continue to do so - and fair enough, it's a perfectly feasible aspiration - but as a paractical possibiltiy it's out the window til 2040 I reckon
Just picking up our ballots in the polling station. A guy comes in behind us, 50ish, had no polling card, didn’t know whether he was registered or not, gave his name and address and was told he needed to be at the other polling station in our village,
I’d bet the lot that he was a RefUK voter.
That’s how Reform will be crushed. No doubt about it, patronise and be snobbish about them. Can’t fail.
I’m not being snobbish. Just reporting what I saw. YOUR party indulged them. That was foolish. That’s why you’ve been so utterly fucked over.
You made a value judgement on someone being disorganised for whatever reason and assumed they must be reform because you considered them a bit thick. He could have been an Old Etonian generational landowner or a chap with learning difficulties but you assume he must be reform.
If people treat reform as automatic idiots don’t be surprised when they don’t want to open their ears to your reasonable arguments why they are wrong.
Yarmouth Reform MP donating his salary as MP every month to local organisations
Loaded I assume?
Yes. He's flush.
I don’t see Rishi Sunak or Jeremy Hint doing the same.
I know there's no reason why they should, but were I Rishi, I would have set aside a yearly budget to splash cash around worthy causes - why not?
I believe that in his self published book available free on kindle Rishi will reveal the charitable donations he made whilst PM. He just didn’t want to brag whilst in office. The scales will fall from your eyes, lucky, and you will shed a tear for being so cruel about him but I will be there to pick you up and together we will sit on the sidelines and carp and criticise Labour.
Oh, I'll be criticising Labour plenty, don't you worry about that.
Whether the Conservatives can make significant gains from Labour depends in part on whether the next Tory leader can come to a deal with Farage so that where Reform or the Tories were second to Labour the other party doesn't spend significant resources contesting that seat.
There should be no deals with fascists. The Tories lost far more seats to LDs. It is the middle ground that they have vacated that they need to regain. Lurching further to the right is plain stupid are well as being morally repugnant. I hope the Conservative Party returns to be a pragmatic party of the centre right and leaves the far right to gutter politicians like Putin apologist Farage.
Do you believe Reform are fascists?
It depends on whether you view a Fascist as a party that also uses violent paramilitaries as well as the ballot box or if you use it as a code word for "Ghastly lower order Oiks who don't know their place
Total bollocks. Farage is a fascist and he is, how can I break it to you, not an oik. He is a privately educated ex-city trader. Modern fascists or neo-fascists are politicians who use populist politics of division. Maybe you are someone who doesn't believe election-denying would be dictator Trump, an ally of Farage, is not a fascist. He is most certainly is. Maybe you might describe Putin as someone to be admired though he is a "bad man" (why not say naughty boy?) rather than a fascist murderous despot.
Farage was described by his housemaster as a fascist when he was a young man. He was described as a racist by the founder of UKIP. He indulges in division and stirs hatred. He is an apologist for Putin and Trump. He is a fucking fascist and is scum like all other fascists. He needs to be called out as such.
Yes, but you're what is techinically known, to professional neuroscientists, as a "fucking tragic old weirdo" - so with all due respect that slightly detracts froim your argument
Listening to what you say is like paying attention to the guy who shouts loudly, on his own, at the front of the bus, every time a bird goes by
Nice bit of psychological projection there @Leon. How are you getting on with Dale Carnegie's book by the way. Which bit do you find the hardest; the influencing bit or the making friends?
Well, in terms of influencing people, my regular articles in the Knapper's Gazette are read by hundreds of thousands of people, and in terms of friends I am setting off tomorrow to go and stay in a famously beautiful house in Provence loaned to me by a friend, because he's my friend
Aw, Mr Carnegie's advice must be working now you have found one. Let's hope it lasts longer this time eh?
Close 3 way there between Tories, Reform and Labour, pity about Stephen Metcalfe who was a good MP and a former EDFC councillor and his mother a Buckhurst Hill county councillor
Just think, if the Tories had taken the gloves off and attacked Reform, instead of pretending they were fellow travellers, how many more seats would they have won?
Absolutely. Anyone with the political brain of a bird would have realised that. Except the recently ex-PM it seems. They even gave him opportunity to fight back with Farage attacking his background.
You do have to ask: what the FUCK were they thinking?
He clearly lacked political nous but isn`t what what Isaac Levido and others supposed to be good at? Potentially lots of seats lost with own goals.
How many tory ex-mps who lapped up and whooped over the arrival of GB News and the BBC's endless Farage exposure are now having regrets?
If Channel 4 hadn`t done an expose` of the Clacton activists, Con would have been sub 100 I think.
Maybe they would if they hadn't cocked it up and made the main subject a well spoken card carrying actor specialising in Alf Garnett type "rough voice" characters and undercover filming who for reasons unknown decided to campaign "in character"
It would be quite funny if he were an MI5 mole and Channel 4 used him without realising.
Googling his name before tbey put tbe brop. adcast out to check him out might have been sensible.
Far from being a Fascist, Farage is just a classic old school rightwing Tory, with a populist streak, a libertarian bent, and a fair bit of charisma
It's just that almost everyone to the left of this has the analytical skills of a toddler (cf @Nigel_Foremain and @BartholomewRoberts, and a toddler possessed of a one word vocabulary: FASCIST!!!!
Na, because you, and some like you, are of his ilk, right wing, narcissistic and probably slightly insane. The natural heirs to Oswald Mosely
BBC Wales (Nick Sevini) suggesting too that Labour are illigimate in Wales because their percentage vote has declined. To be fair Andrew RT Davies is not buying it. Sevini telling Davies the Conservatives needs to go right to deal with Reform. But of course we have moved on to Plaid now and they are bigging them up like nobody's business. There is more air time for PC in Carmarthen than the rest of the election in Wales.
Just think of all the trouble the Tories could have saved themselves if they had asked the King to confer the title of "Lord Farage of Sidcup" on Farage a year ago.
Wouldn't have made a bit of difference. His long term ambition is not to be in the Lords.
Far from being a Fascist, Farage is just a classic old school rightwing Tory, with a populist streak, a libertarian bent, and a fair bit of charisma
It's just that almost everyone to the left of this has the analytical skills of a toddler (cf @Nigel_Foremain and @BartholomewRoberts, and a toddler possessed of a one word vocabulary: FASCIST!!!!
Na, because you, and some like you, are of his ilk, right wing, narcissistic and probably slightly insane. The natural heirs to Oswald Mosely
Mosley
Always makes me think of the Not the Nine O'Clock News song.
Just picking up our ballots in the polling station. A guy comes in behind us, 50ish, had no polling card, didn’t know whether he was registered or not, gave his name and address and was told he needed to be at the other polling station in our village,
I’d bet the lot that he was a RefUK voter.
That’s how Reform will be crushed. No doubt about it, patronise and be snobbish about them. Can’t fail.
I’m not being snobbish. Just reporting what I saw. YOUR party indulged them. That was foolish. That’s why you’ve been so utterly fucked over.
This is the most beautifully circular argument I have ever read. Even better than the bit in a Martin Amis novel where a guy visits a pig farm and sees how pigs behave and says "it's no wonder they call them pigs".
Far from being a Fascist, Farage is just a classic old school rightwing Tory, with a populist streak, a libertarian bent, and a fair bit of charisma
It's just that almost everyone to the left of this has the analytical skills of a toddler (cf @Nigel_Foremain and @BartholomewRoberts, and a toddler possessed of a one word vocabulary: FASCIST!!!!
Na, because you, and some like you, are of his ilk, right wing, narcissistic and probably slightly insane. The natural heirs to Oswald Mosely
Mosley
Always makes me think of the Not the Nine O'Clock News song.
It would need to be changed for Farage to "Seen him on the TV with his tweed suit on"
Far from being a Fascist, Farage is just a classic old school rightwing Tory, with a populist streak, a libertarian bent, and a fair bit of charisma
It's just that almost everyone to the left of this has the analytical skills of a toddler (cf @Nigel_Foremain and @BartholomewRoberts, and a toddler possessed of a one word vocabulary: FASCIST!!!!
Don’t hate me everyone, but I agree with @Leon with regards to the Nigel. I don’t think he is even the most extreme Tory there is. The idea that he is hard right is silly. He is the Pied Piper for the hard right, true. But it isn’t him. And I would genuinely enjoy having a pint with him to debate. I don’t understand the people who just howl abuse at him. Or anyone.
Perhaps I am just a little tired of abuse. As a forthcoming thread will touch on…
Close 3 way there between Tories, Reform and Labour, pity about Stephen Metcalfe who was a good MP and a former EDFC councillor and his mother a Buckhurst Hill county councillor
Just think, if the Tories had taken the gloves off and attacked Reform, instead of pretending they were fellow travellers, how many more seats would they have won?
Absolutely. Anyone with the political brain of a bird would have realised that. Except the recently ex-PM it seems. They even gave him opportunity to fight back with Farage attacking his background.
You do have to ask: what the FUCK were they thinking?
Well indeed. Exactly my point. Of course that analytical political genius known as @Leon would like the Tories to cosy up to them and doesn't agree. The Tories need to hit them hard, but they need an articulate leader who has the balls to do it. Not sure who that would be.
Rishi shortly resigns as an MP.
Penny Mordaunt gets the call for the by-election. Which she wins comfortably. And then the Party leadership.
BBC Wales (Nick Sevini) suggesting too that Labour are illigimate in Wales because their percentage vote has declined. To be fair Andrew RT Davies is not buying it. Sevini telling Davies the Conservatives needs to go right to deal with Reform. But of course we have moved on to Plaid now and they are bigging them up like nobody's business. There is more air time for PC in Carmarthen than the rest of the election in Wales.
Far from being a Fascist, Farage is just a classic old school rightwing Tory, with a populist streak, a libertarian bent, and a fair bit of charisma
It's just that almost everyone to the left of this has the analytical skills of a toddler (cf @Nigel_Foremain and @BartholomewRoberts, and a toddler possessed of a one word vocabulary: FASCIST!!!!
Na, because you, and some like you, are of his ilk, right wing, narcissistic and probably slightly insane. The natural heirs to Oswald Mosely
Mosley
Always makes me think of the Not the Nine O'Clock News song.
The stunning success of various independents brings to mind another of their songs.
Close 3 way there between Tories, Reform and Labour, pity about Stephen Metcalfe who was a good MP and a former EDFC councillor and his mother a Buckhurst Hill county councillor
Just think, if the Tories had taken the gloves off and attacked Reform, instead of pretending they were fellow travellers, how many more seats would they have won?
Absolutely. Anyone with the political brain of a bird would have realised that. Except the recently ex-PM it seems. They even gave him opportunity to fight back with Farage attacking his background.
You do have to ask: what the FUCK were they thinking?
He clearly lacked political nous but isn`t what what Isaac Levido and others supposed to be good at? Potentially lots of seats lost with own goals.
How many tory ex-mps who lapped up and whooped over the arrival of GB News and the BBC's endless Farage exposure are now having regrets?
If Channel 4 hadn`t done an expose` of the Clacton activists, Con would have been sub 100 I think.
Maybe they would if they hadn't cocked it up and made the main subject a well spoken card carrying actor specialising in Alf Garnett type "rough voice" characters and undercover filming who for reasons unknown decided to campaign "in character"
It would be quite funny if he were an MI5 mole and Channel 4 used him without realising.
Googling his name before tbey put tbe brop. adcast out to check him out might have been sensible.
Far from being a Fascist, Farage is just a classic old school rightwing Tory, with a populist streak, a libertarian bent, and a fair bit of charisma
It's just that almost everyone to the left of this has the analytical skills of a toddler (cf @Nigel_Foremain and @BartholomewRoberts, and a toddler possessed of a one word vocabulary: FASCIST!!!!
Don’t hate me everyone, but I agree with @Leon with regards to the Nigel. I don’t think he is even the most extreme Tory there is. The idea that he is hard right is silly. He is the Pied Piper for the hard right, true. But it isn’t him. And I would genuinely enjoy having a pint with him to debate. I don’t understand the people who just howl abuse at him. Or anyone.
Perhaps I am just a little tired of abuse. As a forthcoming thread will touch on…
Oh OK, maybe his friend Trump ain't that bad either. And his admiration of Putin, is well, just an eccentricity
Close 3 way there between Tories, Reform and Labour, pity about Stephen Metcalfe who was a good MP and a former EDFC councillor and his mother a Buckhurst Hill county councillor
Just think, if the Tories had taken the gloves off and attacked Reform, instead of pretending they were fellow travellers, how many more seats would they have won?
Absolutely. Anyone with the political brain of a bird would have realised that. Except the recently ex-PM it seems. They even gave him opportunity to fight back with Farage attacking his background.
You do have to ask: what the FUCK were they thinking?
Well indeed. Exactly my point. Of course that analytical political genius known as @Leon would like the Tories to cosy up to them and doesn't agree. The Tories need to hit them hard, but they need an articulate leader who has the balls to do it. Not sure who that would be.
Rishi shortly resigns as an MP.
Penny Mordaunt gets the call for the by-election. Which she wins comfortably. And then the Party leadership.
Far from being a Fascist, Farage is just a classic old school rightwing Tory, with a populist streak, a libertarian bent, and a fair bit of charisma
It's just that almost everyone to the left of this has the analytical skills of a toddler (cf @Nigel_Foremain and @BartholomewRoberts, and a toddler possessed of a one word vocabulary: FASCIST!!!!
Na, because you, and some like you, are of his ilk, right wing, narcissistic and probably slightly insane. The natural heirs to Oswald Mosely
Mosley
Thanks for the correction, so useful.
Welcome
Only trying to be helpful. I am sure you will be comparing him to Boeggels and Mullosini after a couple more g&ts. Again I will be here to help.
Far from being a Fascist, Farage is just a classic old school rightwing Tory, with a populist streak, a libertarian bent, and a fair bit of charisma
It's just that almost everyone to the left of this has the analytical skills of a toddler (cf @Nigel_Foremain and @BartholomewRoberts, and a toddler possessed of a one word vocabulary: FASCIST!!!!
Don’t hate me everyone, but I agree with @Leon with regards to the Nigel. I don’t think he is even the most extreme Tory there is. The idea that he is hard right is silly. He is the Pied Piper for the hard right, true. But it isn’t him. And I would genuinely enjoy having a pint with him to debate. I don’t understand the people who just howl abuse at him. Or anyone.
Perhaps I am just a little tired of abuse. As a forthcoming thread will touch on…
Oh OK, maybe his friend Trump ain't that bad either. And his admiration of Putin, is well, just an eccentricity
I find it astonishing a tenth of Reform voters would have voted Lib Dem. Presumably this was the 'get rid of Tory' choice in their area
That’s exactly what I said both last night and this morning.
If Reform disappears, just under a third of them would have stayed in their armchair, just over a third would have backed the Tories, and exactly the same just over a third would have voted Labour, LibDem or Green. Given the efficiency of tactical voting, there’s next to nothing there for the Tories.
The idea that you can add Ref + Con and suddenly the blues get all their seats back is for the birds. The right wasn’t split. The government was crap.
Be interesting to know what the second preferences of Labour voters were. That might be key to the 2029 election.
We already know that a quarter of them didn’t even have Labour as their first preference!
Close 3 way there between Tories, Reform and Labour, pity about Stephen Metcalfe who was a good MP and a former EDFC councillor and his mother a Buckhurst Hill county councillor
Just think, if the Tories had taken the gloves off and attacked Reform, instead of pretending they were fellow travellers, how many more seats would they have won?
Absolutely. Anyone with the political brain of a bird would have realised that. Except the recently ex-PM it seems. They even gave him opportunity to fight back with Farage attacking his background.
You do have to ask: what the FUCK were they thinking?
He clearly lacked political nous but isn`t what what Isaac Levido and others supposed to be good at? Potentially lots of seats lost with own goals.
How many tory ex-mps who lapped up and whooped over the arrival of GB News and the BBC's endless Farage exposure are now having regrets?
If Channel 4 hadn`t done an expose` of the Clacton activists, Con would have been sub 100 I think.
Maybe they would if they hadn't cocked it up and made the main subject a well spoken card carrying actor specialising in Alf Garnett type "rough voice" characters and undercover filming who for reasons unknown decided to campaign "in character"
It would be quite funny if he were an MI5 mole and Channel 4 used him without realising.
Googling his name before tbey put tbe brop. adcast out to check him out might have been sensible.
It's a conspiracy.
No probably a cockup due to lack of due diligence before broadcasting it.
Close 3 way there between Tories, Reform and Labour, pity about Stephen Metcalfe who was a good MP and a former EDFC councillor and his mother a Buckhurst Hill county councillor
Just think, if the Tories had taken the gloves off and attacked Reform, instead of pretending they were fellow travellers, how many more seats would they have won?
Absolutely. Anyone with the political brain of a bird would have realised that. Except the recently ex-PM it seems. They even gave him opportunity to fight back with Farage attacking his background.
You do have to ask: what the FUCK were they thinking?
Well indeed. Exactly my point. Of course that analytical political genius known as @Leon would like the Tories to cosy up to them and doesn't agree. The Tories need to hit them hard, but they need an articulate leader who has the balls to do it. Not sure who that would be.
Rishi shortly resigns as an MP.
Penny Mordaunt gets the call for the by-election. Which she wins comfortably. And then the Party leadership.
You heard it here first.
Alex chalk surely before Penny if he wants it?
Rishi's constituency membership get the decision.
Will be interesting who they go for but also which ex MPs (or new cleanskins) actually want to put themselves forward.
I really do think Chalk is a loss though, more so than Penny in the big scheme of things. I’m sure there are a few other Tory exMPs in that bracket.
I’m not convinced he won’t stay on for a year though if only to give his kids some stability - I do t know what their situation is with schooling and exams etc but that might play a part.
Hard to believe that with all the lawyers in Starmer's new parliamentary forces, he chose to appoint an Attorney General from outside Parliament by making Richard Hermer a Lord.
Whether the Conservatives can make significant gains from Labour depends in part on whether the next Tory leader can come to a deal with Farage so that where Reform or the Tories were second to Labour the other party doesn't spend significant resources contesting that seat.
There should be no deals with fascists. The Tories lost far more seats to LDs. It is the middle ground that they have vacated that they need to regain. Lurching further to the right is plain stupid are well as being morally repugnant. I hope the Conservative Party returns to be a pragmatic party of the centre right and leaves the far right to gutter politicians like Putin apologist Farage.
Brilliant diagnosis, Ignore the millions and millions of votes on the right and instead bicker with the Lib Dems over a few rich seats in southwest London. A sure and certain path to power in 2028
Well it is unless you are a swiveleyed nutjob far right tw*t such as yourself. And forgive me, if I need any analysis of my "analysis" I won't be coming to a minor novelist who writes travel articles. The laughable thing is that you, who along with your other childish and downright loony obsessions, bang on about "woke" then say you are going to vote for a party led by the most "woke" leader we have ever had in this country. You don't analyse anything. You spin around like a demented weathervane, desperately trying to point in the direction that you think serves your unscientific, contrarian attention seeking persona the most response from perfect strangers on a political blob. Sorry if that is harsh, but it is the truth.
It's OK, your comment wasn't harsh, just immensely tedious and badly written, so you're fine
Aside from a vague feeling of affront from being described as part of the political blob, I thought the comment was rather well composed.
Far from being a Fascist, Farage is just a classic old school rightwing Tory, with a populist streak, a libertarian bent, and a fair bit of charisma
It's just that almost everyone to the left of this has the analytical skills of a toddler (cf @Nigel_Foremain and @BartholomewRoberts, and a toddler possessed of a one word vocabulary: FASCIST!!!!
Don’t hate me everyone, but I agree with @Leon with regards to the Nigel. I don’t think he is even the most extreme Tory there is. The idea that he is hard right is silly. He is the Pied Piper for the hard right, true. But it isn’t him. And I would genuinely enjoy having a pint with him to debate. I don’t understand the people who just howl abuse at him. Or anyone.
Perhaps I am just a little tired of abuse. As a forthcoming thread will touch on…
Whilst you were busy campaigning, and well done for your part in Dougie's downfall, Nigel's former teacher's at Dulwich College were reminiscing on his enthusiasm for extreme right political history across Europe and the UK. Oh, and his ethnic minority school mates commented on his demeanor whilst in their company at school.
Spain because rhey are the better team = more of a threat
Or Germany because they are the hosts so it would be schadenfreudian
I'd favour us over either in the final.
Labour landslide England Euros Emma Wimbo Harris
It's that sort of spooky special July.
BTW you know that, in the end, I really did vote for Starmer?
I could never work out whether you were geninely horrified by the idea I would do that, or playing some secret game whereby you wanted me to vote Starmer, so you enticed me do to it by telling me it would annoy you
In the end I thought "Fuck it, give the boring old twit a chance", and voted for Starmer
Also his wife is genuinely hot and I don't mind seeing her on my screen every so often
You can tell I am a deep thinker
It's my gift and my curse that I see through your shtick. The game here is to (falsely) say you voted Labour rather than Reform just so as to taint our landslide. It hasn't worked.
Hard to believe that with all the lawyers in Starmer's new parliamentary forces, he chose to appoint an Attorney General from outside Parliament by making Richard Hermer a Lord.
Hard to believe that with all the lawyers in Starmer's new parliamentary forces, he chose to appoint an Attorney General from outside Parliament by making Richard Hermer a Lord.
Emily Thornberry will not be happy.
She will be fine, she’s 100% focussed on the Euros at the moment so not bothered about Cabinet.
Still taking the piss, I see, with their absurdly small number of constituents. Gotta love the Western Isles!
2024 really is the death of Scottish independence, for a generation. Thankfully
I'm pretty sure that that one is the combination of falling out with their sitting MP (Angus MacNeil, who stood as an independent and did ok) and the frankly incomprehensible incompetence in providing a working ferry or two for the Isles. Their economy, based largely on tourism, is being destroyed by this ineptitude. In some ways it is surprising the SNP got as many votes as they did.
Far from being a Fascist, Farage is just a classic old school rightwing Tory, with a populist streak, a libertarian bent, and a fair bit of charisma
It's just that almost everyone to the left of this has the analytical skills of a toddler (cf @Nigel_Foremain and @BartholomewRoberts, and a toddler possessed of a one word vocabulary: FASCIST!!!!
Don’t hate me everyone, but I agree with @Leon with regards to the Nigel. I don’t think he is even the most extreme Tory there is. The idea that he is hard right is silly. He is the Pied Piper for the hard right, true. But it isn’t him. And I would genuinely enjoy having a pint with him to debate. I don’t understand the people who just howl abuse at him. Or anyone.
Perhaps I am just a little tired of abuse. As a forthcoming thread will touch on…
Whilst you were busy campaigning, and well done for your part in Dougie's downfall, Nigel's former teacher's at Dulwich College were reminiscing on his enthusiasm for extreme right political history across Europe and the UK. Oh, and his ethnic minority school mates commented on his demeanor whilst in their company at school.
He's a ****!
Yes he is. And more than that. But he isn't a fascist. He isn't inciting civic unrest. He isn't trying to overthrow the establishment or the way everything happens (as DomCum was). He's a populist, and I struggle to then add the word "agitator" because its practically all about his ego. He needs to be important.
I disagree with practically everything he says. But he isn't as dangerous as Galloway. Or Yaxley-Lennon. Or these new Islamist indies.
So enjoying the Right suddenly discovering electoral reform and how FPTP actually works.
Can I just point out that as someone vaguely on the Right I still don't agree with PR.
Though I do find it ironic that Labour talk about a fairer voting system right up until they win a stonking majority with FPTP and then they drop it like a hot potato.
When did Labour do that, though?
Starmer has never backed PR. There was a conference resolution in favour of adding it to the manifesto in 2022, but the NEC dropped it and it never had support from the leadership. Corbyn opposed it throughout his time as Labour leader.
Going back more than a decade, it looks like Miliband gave half-hearted backing to the AV ref, but wouldn't have backed PR (and most of his MPs were against even AV). Brown was against. Blair was against.
So neither the current leadership, the previous generation, or the generation before that were in favour. Like, maybe they were all for it in the 1980s... but then didn't the Tories support it at the 1917 Speaker's Conference, which is about as relevant.
Hard to believe that with all the lawyers in Starmer's new parliamentary forces, he chose to appoint an Attorney General from outside Parliament by making Richard Hermer a Lord.
Emily Thornberry will not be happy.
The fact she nominated Jezza I am sure is totally unrelated.
Close 3 way there between Tories, Reform and Labour, pity about Stephen Metcalfe who was a good MP and a former EDFC councillor and his mother a Buckhurst Hill county councillor
Just think, if the Tories had taken the gloves off and attacked Reform, instead of pretending they were fellow travellers, how many more seats would they have won?
Absolutely. Anyone with the political brain of a bird would have realised that. Except the recently ex-PM it seems. They even gave him opportunity to fight back with Farage attacking his background.
You do have to ask: what the FUCK were they thinking?
Well indeed. Exactly my point. Of course that analytical political genius known as @Leon would like the Tories to cosy up to them and doesn't agree. The Tories need to hit them hard, but they need an articulate leader who has the balls to do it. Not sure who that would be.
Rishi shortly resigns as an MP.
Penny Mordaunt gets the call for the by-election. Which she wins comfortably. And then the Party leadership.
Spain because rhey are the better team = more of a threat
Or Germany because they are the hosts so it would be schadenfreudian
I'd favour us over either in the final.
Labour landslide England Euros Emma Wimbo Harris
It's that sort of spooky special July.
BTW you know that, in the end, I really did vote for Starmer?
I could never work out whether you were geninely horrified by the idea I would do that, or playing some secret game whereby you wanted me to vote Starmer, so you enticed me do to it by telling me it would annoy you
In the end I thought "Fuck it, give the boring old twit a chance", and voted for Starmer
Also his wife is genuinely hot and I don't mind seeing her on my screen every so often
You can tell I am a deep thinker
It's my gift and my curse that I see through your shtick. The game here is to (falsely) say you voted Labour rather than Reform just so as to taint our landslide. It hasn't worked.
lol!
No I really did vote starmer, you can believe it or not - we shall never know
However I also INSTRUCTED my ex wife to vote Reform with her postal vote, which she “did”, so I got the best of both worlds
Hard to believe that with all the lawyers in Starmer's new parliamentary forces, he chose to appoint an Attorney General from outside Parliament by making Richard Hermer a Lord.
I do hope we win tomorrow because the amount of snooty shit I read from German journalists about the England team and the constant dragging in of Brexit as if it had any relevance was tedious.
Far from being a Fascist, Farage is just a classic old school rightwing Tory, with a populist streak, a libertarian bent, and a fair bit of charisma
It's just that almost everyone to the left of this has the analytical skills of a toddler (cf @Nigel_Foremain and @BartholomewRoberts, and a toddler possessed of a one word vocabulary: FASCIST!!!!
Don’t hate me everyone, but I agree with @Leon with regards to the Nigel. I don’t think he is even the most extreme Tory there is. The idea that he is hard right is silly. He is the Pied Piper for the hard right, true. But it isn’t him. And I would genuinely enjoy having a pint with him to debate. I don’t understand the people who just howl abuse at him. Or anyone.
Perhaps I am just a little tired of abuse. As a forthcoming thread will touch on…
I agree. Farage is a pub bore, a braying jackal, and a grifter. He is idle with a very poor attendance record as MEP, except when picking up his expenses, but he isn't a Fascist.
I think the 5 Reform Mps will get bored very quickly, and not build on their limited electoral success on the Saxon Shore. The best cure is the spotlight of public scrutiny.
My thoughts on the next few years for Labour and the Tories.
Both of them have a main problem to solve. For Labour, it is simply to govern for a parliamentary term competently without drama and scandal and to point to some measurable progress on items like the economy. I think if they manage that a second term is pretty much the default.
The Tories are more interesting because their main problem is their identity and dealing with Reform. They need to build a voter coalition to challenge for power. And I think the only way they are going to manage that is to deal with Reform in some way. How they do that is the million dollar question. It does not necessarily mean becoming a shadow of Reform or going full right wing populist - but it does mean a need to understand the wants and needs of those voters and to speak their language.
I am not convinced the Tories have a route back to power through the traditional heartlands only now. The LDs will be sticky and hard to dislodge. The Tories can get some of those back but it is hard to visualise a 2015 scenario occurring. So their hunting grounds are going to be the Con/Lab marginals and the red wall by necessity.
I realise that I have stumbled over the 10k comments line.
It occurs to me that I may not have said anything of any worth in these 10k comments.
I think I've been propelled to such numbers by one very very funny comment I made many years ago - precisely nobody liked it. Anyway, some posts late, I thought I ought to apologise
My thoughts on the next few years for Labour and the Tories.
Both of them have a main problem to solve. For Labour, it is simply to govern for a parliamentary term competently without drama and scandal and to point to some measurable progress on items like the economy. I think if they manage that a second term is pretty much the default.
The Tories are more interesting because their main problem is their identity and dealing with Reform. They need to build a voter coalition to challenge for power. And I think the only way they are going to manage that is to deal with Reform in some way. How they do that is the million dollar question. It does not necessarily mean becoming a shadow of Reform or going full right wing populist - but it does mean a need to understand the wants and needs of those voters and to speak their language.
I am not convinced the Tories have a route back to power through the traditional heartlands only now. The LDs will be sticky and hard to dislodge. The Tories can get some of those back but it is hard to visualise a 2015 scenario occurring. So their hunting grounds are going to be the Con/Lab marginals and the red wall by necessity.
I too think they’re more likely to regain seats from Labour than Lib Dem’s.
Spain because rhey are the better team = more of a threat
Or Germany because they are the hosts so it would be schadenfreudian
I'd favour us over either in the final.
Labour landslide England Euros Emma Wimbo Harris
It's that sort of spooky special July.
BTW you know that, in the end, I really did vote for Starmer?
I could never work out whether you were geninely horrified by the idea I would do that, or playing some secret game whereby you wanted me to vote Starmer, so you enticed me do to it by telling me it would annoy you
In the end I thought "Fuck it, give the boring old twit a chance", and voted for Starmer
Also his wife is genuinely hot and I don't mind seeing her on my screen every so often
You can tell I am a deep thinker
It's my gift and my curse that I see through your shtick. The game here is to (falsely) say you voted Labour rather than Reform just so as to taint our landslide. It hasn't worked.
"Taint our landslide".
Lol. You got 33.8% of the vote on 59% turnout.
It's like trying to taint a few tins of Heinz soup that have slipped down a grassy knoll.
Ian Dunt @IanDunt · 41m Take it in. The first female chancellor. The first housing secretary who's actually lived in social housing. The first education secretary who was on free school meals. An energy secretary who actually believes in aggressively fighting climate change. Not a bad afternoon.
Anybody would think the Tories over the past 14 years had just been rich white men....checks notes....The problem with the Tories wasn't diversity, it was too many where a bit shit across the board, men, women, white, non-white, etc, particularly in recent years.
The real problem the Tories have now is a lot of the better ones have stepped down or lost their seat. A bit like Labour 2010, they lost a lot of their better MPs.
The need to bend the knee to Johnson and True Brexiteerdom rather denuded the party of talent.
Far from being a Fascist, Farage is just a classic old school rightwing Tory, with a populist streak, a libertarian bent, and a fair bit of charisma
It's just that almost everyone to the left of this has the analytical skills of a toddler (cf @Nigel_Foremain and @BartholomewRoberts, and a toddler possessed of a one word vocabulary: FASCIST!!!!
Don’t hate me everyone, but I agree with @Leon with regards to the Nigel. I don’t think he is even the most extreme Tory there is. The idea that he is hard right is silly. He is the Pied Piper for the hard right, true. But it isn’t him. And I would genuinely enjoy having a pint with him to debate. I don’t understand the people who just howl abuse at him. Or anyone.
Perhaps I am just a little tired of abuse. As a forthcoming thread will touch on…
I said down thread that I welcomed the civility of both Sunak and Starmer today but nothing will persuade me that Farage is not a nasty racist who is all too casual about crossing the line and the company that he keeps. He is poisonous and I am seriously disappointed that he has finally made the Commons at his eighth attempt. Worst result of the night for me.
Far from being a Fascist, Farage is just a classic old school rightwing Tory, with a populist streak, a libertarian bent, and a fair bit of charisma
It's just that almost everyone to the left of this has the analytical skills of a toddler (cf @Nigel_Foremain and @BartholomewRoberts, and a toddler possessed of a one word vocabulary: FASCIST!!!!
Don’t hate me everyone, but I agree with @Leon with regards to the Nigel. I don’t think he is even the most extreme Tory there is. The idea that he is hard right is silly. He is the Pied Piper for the hard right, true. But it isn’t him. And I would genuinely enjoy having a pint with him to debate. I don’t understand the people who just howl abuse at him. Or anyone.
Perhaps I am just a little tired of abuse. As a forthcoming thread will touch on…
I agree. Farage is a pub bore, a braying jackal, and a grifter. He is idle with a very poor attendance record as MEP, except when picking up his expenses, but he isn't a Fascist.
I think the 5 Reform Mps will get bored very quickly, and not build on their limited electoral success on the Saxon Shore. The best cure is the spotlight of public scrutiny.
I don’t think we’re seeing the chill North wind of national socialism, flaunting the swastika banner in the sky, in these results.
Spain because rhey are the better team = more of a threat
Or Germany because they are the hosts so it would be schadenfreudian
I'd favour us over either in the final.
Labour landslide England Euros Emma Wimbo Harris
It's that sort of spooky special July.
BTW you know that, in the end, I really did vote for Starmer?
I could never work out whether you were geninely horrified by the idea I would do that, or playing some secret game whereby you wanted me to vote Starmer, so you enticed me do to it by telling me it would annoy you
In the end I thought "Fuck it, give the boring old twit a chance", and voted for Starmer
Also his wife is genuinely hot and I don't mind seeing her on my screen every so often
You can tell I am a deep thinker
It's my gift and my curse that I see through your shtick. The game here is to (falsely) say you voted Labour rather than Reform just so as to taint our landslide. It hasn't worked.
"Taint our landslide".
Lol. You got 33.8% of the vote on 59% turnout.
It's like trying to taint a few tins of Heinz soup that have slipped down a grassy knoll.
That's as maybe. Labour now have 5 years of power and a majority that can pass whatever they like.
The Tory survivors have the boredom of ineffective opposition to survive.
Just think of all the trouble the Tories could have saved themselves if they had asked the King to confer the title of "Lord Farage of Sidcup" on Farage a year ago.
How's about Lord Farage of Mar-a-Lardo in the County of Palm Beachshire?
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot trampling a human face. Forever.”
That is fascism.
What about these babies?
No, they are just for trampling Scottish dreams of independence. Forever.
It’s unendingly weird how personally PBers who don’t live in Scotland and aren’t governed by them take the SNP. Just imagine how mental you’d be if you lived here!
Great that you now accept Feartie Farage as the face (and feet) of Unionism.
Far from being a Fascist, Farage is just a classic old school rightwing Tory, with a populist streak, a libertarian bent, and a fair bit of charisma
It's just that almost everyone to the left of this has the analytical skills of a toddler (cf @Nigel_Foremain and @BartholomewRoberts, and a toddler possessed of a one word vocabulary: FASCIST!!!!
Don’t hate me everyone, but I agree with @Leon with regards to the Nigel. I don’t think he is even the most extreme Tory there is. The idea that he is hard right is silly. He is the Pied Piper for the hard right, true. But it isn’t him. And I would genuinely enjoy having a pint with him to debate. I don’t understand the people who just howl abuse at him. Or anyone.
Perhaps I am just a little tired of abuse. As a forthcoming thread will touch on…
Whilst you were busy campaigning, and well done for your part in Dougie's downfall, Nigel's former teacher's at Dulwich College were reminiscing on his enthusiasm for extreme right political history across Europe and the UK. Oh, and his ethnic minority school mates commented on his demeanor whilst in their company at school.
He's a ****!
Yes he is. And more than that. But he isn't a fascist. He isn't inciting civic unrest. He isn't trying to overthrow the establishment or the way everything happens (as DomCum was). He's a populist, and I struggle to then add the word "agitator" because its practically all about his ego. He needs to be important.
I disagree with practically everything he says. But he isn't as dangerous as Galloway. Or Yaxley-Lennon. Or these new Islamist indies.
The Popular Front for Gaza are a medium term concern, but Farage keeps coming back like a bad smell. You should be concerned, because he is the comedic face of British extremism. He is no Yaxley-Lennon, but he and his fellow travellers don't appear to like non-ayrans.
So, do we all join the Tory party now to vote for leader. Someone has to save them from Badenoch and Braverman.
They're beyond being saved. If they're going to have their little adventure into the loony right then they need to be left to do it and suffer the consequences.
The Tory membership needs time and space to work through their butt hurt, and to come to the realisation that this defeat isn't all the product of failing to be sufficiently right wing.
Sir Patrick Vallance KCB has been appointed Minister of State (Minister for Science) in the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology @SciTechgovuk
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot trampling a human face. Forever.”
That is fascism.
Fascism is just a word Lefties like to throw around about their opponents to socially proof themselves to each other.
Farage is a populist, not a fascist. And across the world, it is populism that presents the most pressing danger to good governance and robust democratic structures.
Spain because rhey are the better team = more of a threat
Or Germany because they are the hosts so it would be schadenfreudian
I'd favour us over either in the final.
Labour landslide England Euros Emma Wimbo Harris
It's that sort of spooky special July.
BTW you know that, in the end, I really did vote for Starmer?
I could never work out whether you were geninely horrified by the idea I would do that, or playing some secret game whereby you wanted me to vote Starmer, so you enticed me do to it by telling me it would annoy you
In the end I thought "Fuck it, give the boring old twit a chance", and voted for Starmer
Also his wife is genuinely hot and I don't mind seeing her on my screen every so often
You can tell I am a deep thinker
It's my gift and my curse that I see through your shtick. The game here is to (falsely) say you voted Labour rather than Reform just so as to taint our landslide. It hasn't worked.
"Taint our landslide".
Lol. You got 33.8% of the vote on 59% turnout.
It's like trying to taint a few tins of Heinz soup that have slipped down a grassy knoll.
Spain because rhey are the better team = more of a threat
Or Germany because they are the hosts so it would be schadenfreudian
I'd favour us over either in the final.
Labour landslide England Euros Emma Wimbo Harris
It's that sort of spooky special July.
BTW you know that, in the end, I really did vote for Starmer?
I could never work out whether you were geninely horrified by the idea I would do that, or playing some secret game whereby you wanted me to vote Starmer, so you enticed me do to it by telling me it would annoy you
In the end I thought "Fuck it, give the boring old twit a chance", and voted for Starmer
Also his wife is genuinely hot and I don't mind seeing her on my screen every so often
You can tell I am a deep thinker
It's my gift and my curse that I see through your shtick. The game here is to (falsely) say you voted Labour rather than Reform just so as to taint our landslide. It hasn't worked.
"Taint our landslide".
Lol. You got 33.8% of the vote on 59% turnout.
It's like trying to taint a few tins of Heinz soup that have slipped down a grassy knoll.
Smart disciplined strategy leading to a staggeringly efficient vote.
So, do we all join the Tory party now to vote for leader. Someone has to save them from Badenoch and Braverman.
They're beyond being saved. If they're going to have their little adventure into the loony right then they need to be left to do it and suffer the consequences.
The Tory membership needs time and space to work through their butt hurt, and to come to the realisation that this defeat isn't all the product of failing to be sufficiently right wing.
Sir Patrick Vallance KCB has been appointed Minister of State (Minister for Science) in the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology @SciTechgovuk
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot trampling a human face. Forever.”
That is fascism.
What about these babies?
No, they are just for trampling Scottish dreams of independence. Forever.
It’s unendingly weird how personally PBers who don’t live in Scotland and aren’t governed by them take the SNP. Just imagine how mental you’d be if you lived here!
Great that you now accept Feartie Farage as the face (and feet) of Unionism.
Tories clearly got a gubbing yesterday.
But it was nothing to that dished out by the Scottish voters to the SNP. Allow me that moment of joy in such a bleak landscape.
So, do we all join the Tory party now to vote for leader. Someone has to save them from Badenoch and Braverman.
They're beyond being saved. If they're going to have their little adventure into the loony right then they need to be left to do it and suffer the consequences.
The Tory membership needs time and space to work through their butt hurt, and to come to the realisation that this defeat isn't all the product of failing to be sufficiently right wing.
It might be fun to rebuild a one nation Tory party and defeat the populists and nutters.
Close 3 way there between Tories, Reform and Labour, pity about Stephen Metcalfe who was a good MP and a former EDFC councillor and his mother a Buckhurst Hill county councillor
Just think, if the Tories had taken the gloves off and attacked Reform, instead of pretending they were fellow travellers, how many more seats would they have won?
Absolutely. Anyone with the political brain of a bird would have realised that. Except the recently ex-PM it seems. They even gave him opportunity to fight back with Farage attacking his background.
You do have to ask: what the FUCK were they thinking?
Well indeed. Exactly my point. Of course that analytical political genius known as @Leon would like the Tories to cosy up to them and doesn't agree. The Tories need to hit them hard, but they need an articulate leader who has the balls to do it. Not sure who that would be.
Rishi shortly resigns as an MP.
Penny Mordaunt gets the call for the by-election. Which she wins comfortably. And then the Party leadership.
You heard it here first.
Why do you expect Sunak to stand down? He's young, he wasn't PM for that long, he should stick around. I don't get the obsession with Mordaunt. She stood for the leadership before and made little impression.
Comments
For all the talk, the UK population liking for real extremists isn't very large, in the way France, Germany, Italy, do. It will have made a decent chunk of people not vote Reform on the day, and given how low the Tory vote was, I think it was not vote, rather than Polly nosepeg.
I've no doubt a lot of Scotch people still dream of indy, and will continue to do so - and fair enough, it's a perfectly feasible aspiration - but as a paractical possibiltiy it's out the window til 2040 I reckon
If people treat reform as automatic idiots don’t be surprised when they don’t want to open their ears to your reasonable arguments why they are wrong.
It would be quite funny if he were an MI5 mole and Channel 4 used him without realising.
Googling his name before tbey put tbe brop.
adcast out to check him out might have been sensible.
The BBC are really pissing me off.
Perhaps I am just a little tired of abuse. As a forthcoming thread will touch on…
I note that Any Questions this evening has both Matt Goodwin and Val Policella as part of the scrum.
Interesting enough?
https://youtu.be/8iPgOBoqsaQ?feature=shared
Only trying to be helpful. I am sure you will be comparing him to Boeggels and Mullosini after a couple more g&ts. Again I will be here to help.
That is fascism.
I really do think Chalk is a loss though, more so than Penny in the big scheme of things. I’m sure there are a few other Tory exMPs in that bracket.
I’m not convinced he won’t stay on for a year though if only to give his kids some stability - I do t know what their situation is with schooling and exams etc but that might play a part.
The last lot governed as a shower.
Emily Thornberry will not be happy.
He's a ****!
I disagree with practically everything he says. But he isn't as dangerous as Galloway. Or Yaxley-Lennon. Or these new Islamist indies.
Starmer has never backed PR. There was a conference resolution in favour of adding it to the manifesto in 2022, but the NEC dropped it and it never had support from the leadership. Corbyn opposed it throughout his time as Labour leader.
Going back more than a decade, it looks like Miliband gave half-hearted backing to the AV ref, but wouldn't have backed PR (and most of his MPs were against even AV). Brown was against. Blair was against.
So neither the current leadership, the previous generation, or the generation before that were in favour. Like, maybe they were all for it in the 1980s... but then didn't the Tories support it at the 1917 Speaker's Conference, which is about as relevant.
So, I don't personally like them.
No I really did vote starmer, you can believe it or not - we shall never know
However I also INSTRUCTED my ex wife to vote Reform with her postal vote, which she “did”, so I got the best of both worlds
I think the 5 Reform Mps will get bored very quickly, and not build on their limited electoral success on the Saxon Shore. The best cure is the spotlight of public scrutiny.
Both of them have a main problem to solve. For Labour, it is simply to govern for a parliamentary term competently without drama and scandal and to point to some measurable progress on items like the economy. I think if they manage that a second term is pretty much the default.
The Tories are more interesting because their main problem is their identity and dealing with Reform. They need to build a voter coalition to challenge for power. And I think the only way they are going to manage that is to deal with Reform in some way. How they do that is the million dollar question. It does not necessarily mean becoming a shadow of Reform or going full right wing populist - but it does mean a need to understand the wants and needs of those voters and to speak their language.
I am not convinced the Tories have a route back to power through the traditional heartlands only now. The LDs will be sticky and hard to dislodge. The Tories can get some of those back but it is hard to visualise a 2015 scenario occurring. So their hunting grounds are going to be the Con/Lab marginals and the red wall by necessity.
It occurs to me that I may not have said anything of any worth in these 10k comments.
I think I've been propelled to such numbers by one very very funny comment I made many years ago - precisely nobody liked it. Anyway, some posts late, I thought I ought to apologise
Lol. You got 33.8% of the vote on 59% turnout.
It's like trying to taint a few tins of Heinz soup that have slipped down a grassy knoll.
Similar story for many of these characters who got kicked out/turned on the party and ran as Indys.
The last Old Etonian who was markedly more use than a marzipan dildo was Wellington and even he went down hill when he went into politics.
The Tory survivors have the boredom of ineffective opposition to survive.
Great that you now accept Feartie Farage as the face (and feet) of Unionism.
The Tory membership needs time and space to work through their butt hurt, and to come to the realisation that this defeat isn't all the product of failing to be sufficiently right wing.
James Timpson OBE
@JamesTCobbler
has been appointed Minister of State (Minister for Prisons, Parole and Probation) in the Ministry of Justice
@MoJGovUK
.
https://x.com/10DowningStreet/status/1809295371727687742
Sir Patrick Vallance KCB has been appointed Minister of State (Minister for Science) in the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology
@SciTechgovuk
https://x.com/10DowningStreet/status/1809292602124173456
But it was nothing to that dished out by the Scottish voters to the SNP. Allow me that moment of joy in such a bleak landscape.
So yes.
Plus, we weren't totally wiped out. So there's that.