I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
I honestly understand. As you will be hit by VAT on school fees, so will I eventually as unless something either unusually bad or unusually good happens it's my intent to send my daughter and any future kids to private school. I will almost certainly be stuffed by CGT increases like @kyf_100. I can realistically expect IHT to cause me issues too.
But it's still more important to me to kick the Tories in the face.
What I don't think you're quite getting is that this isn't emotional. Emotions drive it sure - they do *any* human decision. We emote first and rationalise later. So maybe I'm rationalising later. But I can claim the same about you. Let's call a truce there and go with my rationalisation. Which is that it's deterrence. To say that it's not acceptable to behave and legislate like this and expect to stay in power. To say that it's not acceptable to screw my generation and those younger over.
I'm even a member of the conservative party btw. Just to vote for sanity in the future if it is what emerges from the ashses.
It may be that a different liberal or centre-right party comes about instead - I'd love orange book lib dems. In which case I'll join it.
But this...thing... that dares to call itself the natural party of government... delenda est.
I agree with all of this post.
Except I won't be stung by CGT increases, I'll either not sell, or leave. Either way the government gets nothing. CGT at 20% is mid to low tier. CGT at 45% is 10% higher than (checks notes) the socialist paradise of finland, and would be the highest in Europe.
I want to see the Conservatives kicked in the teeth for the last 14 years, but HNWIs are already offski, see articles like
The worst thing for planning is insecurity, and I'd much prefer Labour to say "we will raise it to 30% next year, suck it up or leave" because at the minute investors are acting like it will be a rise to 45%, and far more people are leaving.
It's the failure of Labour to explain this that bugs me., due to the capital flight it's already causing. Tbh, I might even be willing to pay 30%, just tell me what I'm paying so I can plan.
I think the one thing we may get is some instant changes that will affect capital - lifetime gifts might be one.
I think lifetime allowances are interesting, and you could do something like a lifetime allowance of 500k for CGT and IHT with a 40% tax after that (plus taper relief for CGT) and be in approximately the same place we are now, but slightly favouring long term investment over short term gains.
I don't actually believe Labour will go full Lib Dem (for the policy is in their manifesto) and implement CGT at income tax levels without taper relief or indexation, because that would be a one way ticket to capital flight madsville, and, as I say, place the UK higher than any other country in Europe - indeed in the top 10% of countries in the world - with all the harm to the economy that would entail.
But Labour's silence is already causing extreme disquiet, and people are assuming the worst, 45% and even exit taxes. If you want full North Korean autarky, it's the way to go, but last time I checked, NK isn't the most prosperous nation. So I assume it won't be that.
Labour should just tell us what it actually is, because the harm to the economy from 'worst case scenario' planning is already happening.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
Yep. The funny thing will be if any of these people get seriously stung with a tax that had never even entered their heads.
If Labour wants to do any of their pet projects (on top of just day to day managing) they are going to have to introduce some serious tax rises. And with IT, NI and VAT ruled out they will have to go into new areas.
I don't know - how about extending IHT to lifetime gifts with tax payable on the spot. Bank of Mum and Dad wants to fund a house deposit - 20% (or maybe 40%?) tax payable on the spot on the transfer.
When they get clobbered with that they'll think why on earth didn't they vote for the Conservatives offering sod all. Because sod all would have been infinitely preferable.
Yes, it's essentially a failure of imagination.
SKS strategy is entirely logical. Say nothing- and allow everyone to project onto him what they'd like to be believe - and run the campaign entirely as a referendum on the Conservatives. Cynical, but effective.
The problem comes when he tries to go for a second term..
What exactly is "cynical" about running a campaign as an Opposition on the record of the sitting government? What in Holy Hell else can you run it on?
Follow up question in news briefing: If the president is jet lagged 12 days after overseas travel, doesn't that raise its own issues?
Say it ain't so. Are they really trying to blame Biden's debate performance on..... jetlag???
I heard the jetlag execuse, but 12 DAYS?! If he was that bad 12 days later how bad was he on day 1?
Does anyone in the White House twig how bad their defence has been? They make CCHQ look good.
It's become untenable, I think. He'll be withdrawing. Trump will be hoping he doesn't, which only emphasises that he must.
Having looked at a few previous threads on this issue, you have regularly accused PBers who claimed that Biden is senile of "rehashing Trumpite talking points" etc etc. You basically tried to silence debate on this subject
Yes if someone (imo) was exaggerating and employing Biden's frailties in service of Trump rampery I would bridle. But if they were commenting on it in non gleeful, non MAGA fashion I wouldn't.
Curating debate, in other words, not trying to silence it. Service to all. You'd miss it if I didn't bother and let everything go unchallenged.
This has absolutely nothing to do with political betting but can I just put on record that I HATE daylight savings. My favourite night is invariably the one they go back to GMT. And my least favourite is when we go to BST. It's part of this tyranny of early to rise makes an earthworm a cunt or whatever it is absolute scumbag normie twats promoting this pseudoscientific nonsense calendar adjustment which tortures us night owls even more during what should be the most productive months of the year. And being a night owl is correlated with intelligence, creativity, attractiveness, being a good gambler too (see Titanic Thompson) AND SUICIDE BECAUSE OF THIS HORRIFIC SOCIETAL BIAS
I would be quite happy to stick with GMT the whole year. Unfortunately I suspect the morons would insist on having BST the whole year istead whch would be vile.
Moron here. GMT equals waiting till evenings are getting really shit and then making it worse, and then rectifying the situation when things have improved so much anyway that nobody cares.
All year GMT is better for people who do more stuff in natural light between 5.30 and 8.30 in the morning than they do between 4.30 and 7.30 in the afternoon. All year BST is better for the rest of us.
How about those who want to go to work in the light? Particularly the northern half of the country. It does nothing matter north of Watford Gap?
I live considerably north of Hadrian's Wall. We don't go to work in the light in the winter, nor come home in it, as it is.
Funny. In Aberdeen in midwinter sunrise is 8.45 and twilight starts an hour earlier than that. If you switched to BST for the whole year then it would still be pitch dark when everyone is going to school and work. Sunrise wouldn't be until 9.45. Screw that.
This has absolutely nothing to do with political betting but can I just put on record that I HATE daylight savings. My favourite night is invariably the one they go back to GMT. And my least favourite is when we go to BST. It's part of this tyranny of early to rise makes an earthworm a cunt or whatever it is absolute scumbag normie twats promoting this pseudoscientific nonsense calendar adjustment which tortures us night owls even more during what should be the most productive months of the year. And being a night owl is correlated with intelligence, creativity, attractiveness, being a good gambler too (see Titanic Thompson) AND SUICIDE BECAUSE OF THIS HORRIFIC SOCIETAL BIAS
I would be quite happy to stick with GMT the whole year. Unfortunately I suspect the morons would insist on having BST the whole year istead whch would be vile.
Moron here. GMT equals waiting till evenings are getting really shit and then making it worse, and then rectifying the situation when things have improved so much anyway that nobody cares.
All year GMT is better for people who do more stuff in natural light between 5.30 and 8.30 in the morning than they do between 4.30 and 7.30 in the afternoon. All year BST is better for the rest of us.
How about those who want to go to work in the light? Particularly the northern half of the country. It does nothing matter north of Watford Gap?
I'd be open to a compromise - bring forward BST by three weeks.
Would Kamala Harris just take over as candidate for the election, or would she actually become president before then?
That’s up to Biden, I guess.
One benefit of going with Kamala Harris instead of the better-polling alternatives is that they could keep that card to play it when they needed it: Biden can stay on as president for now, but at any point he can stand down on grounds of ill health and they get a media cycle of an inauguration, first woman president, a couple of decisive decisions that break from Biden in carefully selected swing-voter-targeting ways etc etc etc.
It's a bit more complex than that. You can't just casually swap out a sitting president with a new president and say Actually this is the candidate, sorry everyone
What about the campaign funds? Who gets them? Can they simply be given to the new person? Is that fair and legally watertight? I can see all kinds of complications, and I can also see voters reacting very negatively to the Democrats treating them like idiots - Yeah. we've known for ages he's demented, we thought we could fool you, seems we can't, try this person instead
Not good
If Biden is going to quit - and of course he should - it needs to happen really soon
No, I mean you'd do the two things separately, ie Biden would quit as nominee soon, and certainly before the convention which is also before the ballot deadlines and so forth, but then potentially quit as *president* at a later date as and when Kamala's campaign finds it useful. IIUC the campaign funds and related infrastructure transfer smoothly to Kamala Harris, because it's the Biden-Harris campaign that's raising them.
Whatever is going on its pretty unlikely to break on July 4th in any event. Maybe next Monday.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
If by some fluke the Conservatives got a majority tomorrow, then by Monday they'd be back at the in-fighting and where would that get us?
Don't be silly. Labour are going to get a massive majority.
This is now about whether you want to live in a one-party state for the next 5 years, or not.
Starmer didn't seal the deal. He's losing voters hand over fist at the moment because he didn't make a pitch to voters that would convince them to stick with him if they faced doubts, or to vote Labour rather than Lib Dem or Green.
He's rather stumbling over the finish line now. He's presumably far enough ahead, but I think it will be a tense wait for the results from the first marginals.
He's played this incredibly smartly in my view. He has played up to his boring tag, he has done nothing to scare the horses or even the right wing media, he makes it all sound like more of the same but with more sensible people in charge. He started with a 20% lead and is finishing with one of around 16%. That is a result and a half. The Tories have frankly not laid a glove on him.
Yep. I think he has been tactically spot on in this election. He has kept manifesto hostages to fortune to a minimum, made sure his opponents have as little to work with as possible and just concentrated on geting elected with a decent majority so he can do what he thinks is necessary.
Pretty much flawless campaign really.
And the point is, ladies and gentleman, that boring, for lack of a better word, is good. Boring is right, boring works. Boring clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the Parliamentary spirit.
That doesn't mean his strategy doesn't have a price.
This only gets him into office. It doesn't keep him there.
It keeps him there for 5 years. That is all any PM can reasonably expect.
Lab 420 Con 121 LD 45 SNP 26 Ref 10 PC 4 Workers 1 Green 3 Speaker 1 Corbyn 1 SF 7 DUP 5 UUP 2 Alliance 3 SDLP 1
Turnout 65%
I think every single party would take that right now (except SDLP). Labour would hope for more, sure, but it's still massive, the Tories would bite your hand off to secure 120, and everyone else is decent to good based on some of the scenarios they could have instead.
Would Kamala Harris just take over as candidate for the election, or would she actually become president before then?
That’s up to Biden, I guess.
One benefit of going with Kamala Harris instead of the better-polling alternatives is that they could keep that card to play it when they needed it: Biden can stay on as president for now, but at any point he can stand down on grounds of ill health and they get a media cycle of an inauguration, first woman president, a couple of decisive decisions that break from Biden in carefully selected swing-voter-targeting ways etc etc etc.
It's a bit more complex than that. You can't just casually swap out a sitting president with a new president and say Actually this is the candidate, sorry everyone
What about the campaign funds? Who gets them? Can they simply be given to the new person? Is that fair and legally watertight? I can see all kinds of complications, and I can also see voters reacting very negatively to the Democrats treating them like idiots - Yeah. we've known for ages he's demented, we thought we could fool you, seems we can't, try this person instead
Not good
If Biden is going to quit - and of course he should - it needs to happen really soon
I don’t think the funds are a problem if it’s Harris; anyone else, yes, a bit awkward.
I wonder if the hypothetical Whitmer/Michelle/Oprah/KLOBUCHAR non-Kamala nominee would need to keep Kamala on as VP just so they could access the Biden-Harris campaign funds...
There have been enough straws in the wind; I am now calling it. The Tories are just going to have a disaster tomorrow night, rather than the catastrophe that they deserve.
And we will never hear the last of it from rightwing newspapers.
"Warning to Starmer from Britain not to take it for granted as Tories surprise by winning over 100 seats" etc etc.
I expect the silent tory voters to wake up tomorrow and try and stop the mythical supermajority.
Personally I can’t see how anyone can vote Tory after the past five years. That photo of HM in mourning while number 10 partied should be enough for any self respecting conservative to sit on their hands.
So is Biden done? Harris / Sanders ticket incoming?
Sanders is like bolting Corbyn on to the ticket. Yes, he's still sharp. But he is seriously left wing for main stream US politics.
We need Biden to walk the plank first. I don't mind Harris but Whitmer with a VP who is a Representative/ Senator from a rust belt swing state makes sense.
A Harris-Bernie ticket would be like Starmer replacing Reeves with Burgon. Not going to happen.
Whitmer - Warnock
Ipsos finds only Michelle Obama does better than Biden v Trump
'According to a new poll on Tuesday conducted by Reuters and Ipsos, the former first lady is the only Democrat that is able to attain victory over Trump in November in a hypothetical match, leading with 50% support compared to his 39%.
In its findings, Ipsos wrote:
All other hypothetical Democratic candidates either perform similarly to or worse than Biden against Trump.
Vice-president Kamala Harris hypothetically wins 42% of registered voters to Trump’s 43%. California Governor Gavin Newsom hypothetically wins 39% of registered voters to Trump’s 42%.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
Yep. The funny thing will be if any of these people get seriously stung with a tax that had never even entered their heads.
If Labour wants to do any of their pet projects (on top of just day to day managing) they are going to have to introduce some serious tax rises. And with IT, NI and VAT ruled out they will have to go into new areas.
I don't know - how about extending IHT to lifetime gifts with tax payable on the spot. Bank of Mum and Dad wants to fund a house deposit - 20% (or maybe 40%?) tax payable on the spot on the transfer.
When they get clobbered with that they'll think why on earth didn't they vote for the Conservatives offering sod all. Because sod all would have been infinitely preferable.
Not everyone values a few extra £k in their bank account versus, say, public services that work, better health services, a fairer society.
I appreciate this is hard for Tories to understand, but there it is.
I expect that Labour will probably try and tax all these people who spend all day looking at bar charts of their stocks/shares etc and who have built up massive fortunes in ISAs/SIPPs. Trying to rebalance priorities more towards people who go to work on modest incomes and are one shock away from poverty can't honestly be a bad thing in my view even though I guess I will be hit at a personal level.
I am more worried about the possible tilt towards authoritarianism and 'progressive' initiatives to try and re-engineer society, be this through social policy, criminal justice policy etc. Very worrying, particularly given the enormous majority they will probably have.
It'd be no surprise if there were fat and sugar taxes introduced on calorific food. Obesity costs a vast fortune and such measures to try to crush it would also raise quite a lot of money to help prop up the tottering healthcare system.
Starmer didn't seal the deal. He's losing voters hand over fist at the moment because he didn't make a pitch to voters that would convince them to stick with him if they faced doubts, or to vote Labour rather than Lib Dem or Green.
He's rather stumbling over the finish line now. He's presumably far enough ahead, but I think it will be a tense wait for the results from the first marginals.
He's played this incredibly smartly in my view. He has played up to his boring tag, he has done nothing to scare the horses or even the right wing media, he makes it all sound like more of the same but with more sensible people in charge. He started with a 20% lead and is finishing with one of around 16%. That is a result and a half. The Tories have frankly not laid a glove on him.
Yep. I think he has been tactically spot on in this election. He has kept manifesto hostages to fortune to a minimum, made sure his opponents have as little to work with as possible and just concentrated on geting elected with a decent majority so he can do what he thinks is necessary.
Pretty much flawless campaign really.
And the point is, ladies and gentleman, that boring, for lack of a better word, is good. Boring is right, boring works. Boring clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the Parliamentary spirit.
That doesn't mean his strategy doesn't have a price.
This only gets him into office. It doesn't keep him there.
It keeps him there for 5 years. That is all any PM can reasonably expect.
Well exactly. Lack of a real plan to deal with longer terms problems is a criticism nearly all incoming PMs will face to some degree, but these are people of great confidence, they wouldn't rise to their positions otherwise - he will assume he will think of something down the line as needed. And given recent party prospects, if not individuals, they usually manage it for a couple of terms.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
It's the opposite of irrational. The Tories' record is so bad - quite possibly the worst in modern history - and for many people they have been pursuing policies whose results seem actively malicious towards them. They are utterly discredited in many eyes that means people want a different approach - much as that may pain you that your team and its ideas have completely failed people.
The entirely irrational thing would be voting Conservative if you feel failed by the government. Einstein and the definition of insanity and all that.
If you are around 35 and a middle earning professional (a group who used to be key swing voters), so have lived under the Tories all your adult life, you have found it more difficult to buy your own home, and earn less in real terms than your 2010 doppelganger did. Your local amenities are worse. You wait longer for any NHS treatment and are unlikely to be able to find an NHS dentist. Oh and if you wanted to get away, you now can't live, work or study easily in loads of places you could in 2010.
We could go on listing these things that have got worse - but on top of this the Tories give every impression that they don't like you, and don't value or even consider your views. Britain feels genuinely broken and what's worse you don't think the Conservatives have a plan to fix it and help you.
So of course it's entirely rational to vote Labour. Warnings about 'socialism' aren't scary because you haven't had the kind of tax cuts that might make you feel better off, nor has the economy grown at any reasonable clip over the past 14 years.
You see a crumbling, meaner, less effective state, low growth, and some of the downright toxicity that emanates from the Tory benches and of course you are more receptive to Labour's arguments about needing to take on a more activist role in fixing things, and raising taxes high earners or those with wealth tend to pay to do so.
You are fully aware that you don't agree with Labour on everything, and know that there might be a time when you're on the wrong end of a decision they make. But frankly, you decide they can't be worse than the other lot and they at least give the impression they like people like me and look like they listen now and again. It's not a difficult rational choice to make.
So in this case you do sound a bit like a Corbynite blaming the electorate for not seeing the Wonders of St. Jeremy, when of course for many rejecting him was also for entirely rational reasons based on the evidence of their eyes. So it is now with the Conservatives. As it was for Labour, the answer is to listen to people and why they are upset with you and prefer the other lot, not to think they are "irrational" for doing so.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
Yep. The funny thing will be if any of these people get seriously stung with a tax that had never even entered their heads.
If Labour wants to do any of their pet projects (on top of just day to day managing) they are going to have to introduce some serious tax rises. And with IT, NI and VAT ruled out they will have to go into new areas.
I don't know - how about extending IHT to lifetime gifts with tax payable on the spot. Bank of Mum and Dad wants to fund a house deposit - 20% (or maybe 40%?) tax payable on the spot on the transfer.
When they get clobbered with that they'll think why on earth didn't they vote for the Conservatives offering sod all. Because sod all would have been infinitely preferable.
Yes, it's essentially a failure of imagination.
SKS strategy is entirely logical. Say nothing- and allow everyone to project onto him what they'd like to be believe - and run the campaign entirely as a referendum on the Conservatives. Cynical, but effective.
The problem comes when he tries to go for a second term..
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
Yep. The funny thing will be if any of these people get seriously stung with a tax that had never even entered their heads.
If Labour wants to do any of their pet projects (on top of just day to day managing) they are going to have to introduce some serious tax rises. And with IT, NI and VAT ruled out they will have to go into new areas.
I don't know - how about extending IHT to lifetime gifts with tax payable on the spot. Bank of Mum and Dad wants to fund a house deposit - 20% (or maybe 40%?) tax payable on the spot on the transfer.
When they get clobbered with that they'll think why on earth didn't they vote for the Conservatives offering sod all. Because sod all would have been infinitely preferable.
Not everyone values a few extra £k in their bank account versus, say, public services that work, better health services, a fairer society.
I appreciate this is hard for Tories to understand, but there it is.
I expect that Labour will probably try and tax all these people who spend all day looking at bar charts of their stocks/shares etc and who have built up massive fortunes in ISAs/SIPPs. Trying to rebalance priorities more towards people who go to work on modest incomes and are one shock away from poverty can't honestly be a bad thing in my view even though I guess I will be hit at a personal level.
I am more worried about the possible tilt towards authoritarianism and 'progressive' initiatives to try and re-engineer society, be this through social policy, criminal justice policy etc. Very worrying, particularly given the enormous majority they will probably have.
It'd be no surprise if there were fat and sugar taxes introduced on calorific food. Obesity costs a vast fortune and such measures to try to crush it would also raise quite a lot of money to help prop up the tottering healthcare system.
They could just make them VAT able. No need for special taxes.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
It's the opposite of irrational. The Tories' record is so bad - quite possibly the worst in modern history - and for many people they have been pursuing policies whose results seem actively malicious towards them. They are utterly discredited in many eyes that means people want a different approach - much as that may pain you that your team and its ideas have completely failed people.
The entirely irrational thing would be voting Conservative if you feel failed by the government. Einstein and the definition of insanity and all that.
If you are around 35 and a middle earning professional (a group who used to be key swing voters), so have lived under the Tories all your adult life, you have found it more difficult to buy your own home, and earn less in real terms than your 2010 doppelganger did. Your local amenities are worse. You wait longer for any NHS treatment and are unlikely to be able to find an NHS dentist. Oh and if you wanted to get away, you now can't live, work or study easily in loads of places you could in 2010.
We could go on listing these things that have got worse - but on top of this the Tories give every impression that they don't like you, and don't value or even consider your views. Britain feels genuinely broken and what's worse you don't think the Conservatives have a plan to fix it and help you.
So of course it's entirely rational to vote Labour. Warnings about 'socialism' aren't scary because you haven't had the kind of tax cuts that might make you feel better off, nor has the economy grown at any reasonable clip over the past 14 years.
You see a crumbling, meaner, less effective state, low growth, and some of the downright toxicity that emanates from the Tory benches and of course you are more receptive to Labour's arguments about needing to take on a more activist role in fixing things, and raising taxes high earners or those with wealth tend to pay to do so.
You are fully aware that you don't agree with Labour on everything, and know that there might be a time when you're on the wrong end of a decision they make. But frankly, you decide they can't be worse than the other lot and they at least give the impression they like people like me and look like they listen now and again. It's not a difficult rational choice to make.
So in this case you do sound a bit like a Corbynite blaming the electorate for not seeing the Wonders of St. Jeremy, when of course for many rejecting him was also for entirely rational reasons based on the evidence of their eyes. So it is now with the Conservatives. As it was for Labour, the answer is to listen to people and why they are upset with you and prefer the other lot, not to think they are "irrational" for doing so.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
It's the opposite of irrational. The Tories' record is so bad - quite possibly the worst in modern history - and for many people they have been pursuing policies whose results seem actively malicious towards them. They are utterly discredited in many eyes that means people want a different approach - much as that may pain you that your team and its ideas have completely failed people.
The entirely irrational thing would be voting Conservative if you feel failed by the government. Einstein and the definition of insanity and all that.
If you are around 35 and a middle earning professional (a group who used to be key swing voters), so have lived under the Tories all your adult life, you have found it more difficult to buy your own home, and earn less in real terms than your 2010 doppelganger did. Your local amenities are worse. You wait longer for any NHS treatment and are unlikely to be able to find an NHS dentist. Oh and if you wanted to get away, you now can't live, work or study easily in loads of places you could in 2010.
We could go on listing these things that have got worse - but on top of this the Tories give every impression that they don't like you, and don't value or even consider your views. Britain feels genuinely broken and what's worse you don't think the Conservatives have a plan to fix it and help you.
So of course it's entirely rational to vote Labour. Warnings about 'socialism' aren't scary because you haven't had the kind of tax cuts that might make you feel better off, nor has the economy grown at any reasonable clip over the past 14 years.
You see a crumbling, meaner, less effective state, low growth, and some of the downright toxicity that emanates from the Tory benches and of course you are more receptive to Labour's arguments about needing to take on a more activist role in fixing things, and raising taxes high earners or those with wealth tend to pay to do so.
You are fully aware that you don't agree with Labour on everything, and know that there might be a time when you're on the wrong end of a decision they make. But frankly, you decide they can't be worse than the other lot and they at least give the impression they like people like me and look like they listen now and again. It's not a difficult rational choice to make.
So in this case you do sound a bit like a Corbynite blaming the electorate for not seeing the Wonders of St. Jeremy, when of course for many rejecting him was also for entirely rational reasons based on the evidence of their eyes. So it is now with the Conservatives. As it was for Labour, the answer is to listen to people and why they are upset with you and prefer the other lot, not to think they are "irrational" for doing so.
No, it's irrational.
People voting Labour are idiots. End of.
A very Corbynite altitude to voters. You seem ready for a decent stint in opposition.
So a depressing but perhaps utterly predictable update from my Surrey tory friend.
For weeks she has told me that for the first time in her life she wouldn’t vote for the Conservatives, that she would vote LibDem or Labour (edit or even Green), that the tory party had left her behind not the other way around, that she dislikes Rishi Sunak, that people like Badenoch and Braverman are thoroughly nasty etc. etc. etc.
And tonight? She has told me ...
… that she is voting Conservative
Why? Because her MP Jonathan Lord helped Seema Misa the sub post mistress who was imprisoned whilst pregnant whilst the LibDems’ Ed Davey didn’t listen.
To be honest, I resigned myself to her staying blue. I didn’t criticise her though I did gently point out that she could be voting for Badenoch or Braverman (whom she professes to loathe).
A certain, perhaps significant, number always return to the fold.
Cons 100-200 seats is very much in play in my opinion.
Lab 420 Con 121 LD 45 SNP 26 Ref 10 PC 4 Workers 1 Green 3 Speaker 1 Corbyn 1 SF 7 DUP 5 UUP 2 Alliance 3 SDLP 1
Turnout 65%
I think every single party would take that right now (except SDLP). Labour would hope for more, sure, but it's still massive, the Tories would bite your hand off to secure 120, and everyone else is decent to good based on some of the scenarios they could have instead.
Where do you reckon Workers will get in?
Galloway most probable I think . Lots of muslims not voting labour this time and Galloway has the base to use this to win in Rochdale . He weirdly also attracts fairly right wing people as well
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
It's the opposite of irrational. The Tories' record is so bad - quite possibly the worst in modern history - and for many people they have been pursuing policies whose results seem actively malicious towards them. They are utterly discredited in many eyes that means people want a different approach - much as that may pain you that your team and its ideas have completely failed people.
The entirely irrational thing would be voting Conservative if you feel failed by the government. Einstein and the definition of insanity and all that.
If you are around 35 and a middle earning professional (a group who used to be key swing voters), so have lived under the Tories all your adult life, you have found it more difficult to buy your own home, and earn less in real terms than your 2010 doppelganger did. Your local amenities are worse. You wait longer for any NHS treatment and are unlikely to be able to find an NHS dentist. Oh and if you wanted to get away, you now can't live, work or study easily in loads of places you could in 2010.
We could go on listing these things that have got worse - but on top of this the Tories give every impression that they don't like you, and don't value or even consider your views. Britain feels genuinely broken and what's worse you don't think the Conservatives have a plan to fix it and help you.
So of course it's entirely rational to vote Labour. Warnings about 'socialism' aren't scary because you haven't had the kind of tax cuts that might make you feel better off, nor has the economy grown at any reasonable clip over the past 14 years.
You see a crumbling, meaner, less effective state, low growth, and some of the downright toxicity that emanates from the Tory benches and of course you are more receptive to Labour's arguments about needing to take on a more activist role in fixing things, and raising taxes high earners or those with wealth tend to pay to do so.
You are fully aware that you don't agree with Labour on everything, and know that there might be a time when you're on the wrong end of a decision they make. But frankly, you decide they can't be worse than the other lot and they at least give the impression they like people like me and look like they listen now and again. It's not a difficult rational choice to make.
So in this case you do sound a bit like a Corbynite blaming the electorate for not seeing the Wonders of St. Jeremy, when of course for many rejecting him was also for entirely rational reasons based on the evidence of their eyes. So it is now with the Conservatives. As it was for Labour, the answer is to listen to people and why they are upset with you and prefer the other lot, not to think they are "irrational" for doing so.
No, it's irrational.
People voting Labour are idiots. End of.
Go to bed Casino, you're being an arse.
No, the idiots voting Labour are being an arse and the Herd going around liking their rants.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
It's the opposite of irrational. The Tories' record is so bad - quite possibly the worst in modern history - and for many people they have been pursuing policies whose results seem actively malicious towards them. They are utterly discredited in many eyes that means people want a different approach - much as that may pain you that your team and its ideas have completely failed people.
The entirely irrational thing would be voting Conservative if you feel failed by the government. Einstein and the definition of insanity and all that.
If you are around 35 and a middle earning professional (a group who used to be key swing voters), so have lived under the Tories all your adult life, you have found it more difficult to buy your own home, and earn less in real terms than your 2010 doppelganger did. Your local amenities are worse. You wait longer for any NHS treatment and are unlikely to be able to find an NHS dentist. Oh and if you wanted to get away, you now can't live, work or study easily in loads of places you could in 2010.
We could go on listing these things that have got worse - but on top of this the Tories give every impression that they don't like you, and don't value or even consider your views. Britain feels genuinely broken and what's worse you don't think the Conservatives have a plan to fix it and help you.
So of course it's entirely rational to vote Labour. Warnings about 'socialism' aren't scary because you haven't had the kind of tax cuts that might make you feel better off, nor has the economy grown at any reasonable clip over the past 14 years.
You see a crumbling, meaner, less effective state, low growth, and some of the downright toxicity that emanates from the Tory benches and of course you are more receptive to Labour's arguments about needing to take on a more activist role in fixing things, and raising taxes high earners or those with wealth tend to pay to do so.
You are fully aware that you don't agree with Labour on everything, and know that there might be a time when you're on the wrong end of a decision they make. But frankly, you decide they can't be worse than the other lot and they at least give the impression they like people like me and look like they listen now and again. It's not a difficult rational choice to make.
So in this case you do sound a bit like a Corbynite blaming the electorate for not seeing the Wonders of St. Jeremy, when of course for many rejecting him was also for entirely rational reasons based on the evidence of their eyes. So it is now with the Conservatives. As it was for Labour, the answer is to listen to people and why they are upset with you and prefer the other lot, not to think they are "irrational" for doing so.
No, it's irrational.
People voting Labour are idiots. End of.
A very Corbynite altitude to voters. You seem ready for a decent stint in opposition.
That's what happens when one's party is left with only the private school vote.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
Most people vote for emotional reasons I dare say.
Can anyone explain exactly why Pensions are not subject to Inheritance Tax (other than obviously to spouse).
Seems to me that every penny should be subject to it. The purpose of tax free pension contributions is to fund your old age and stop you being dependent on the state. Not provide a bung to Tarquin and Melinda when you snuff it.
This has absolutely nothing to do with political betting but can I just put on record that I HATE daylight savings. My favourite night is invariably the one they go back to GMT. And my least favourite is when we go to BST. It's part of this tyranny of early to rise makes an earthworm a cunt or whatever it is absolute scumbag normie twats promoting this pseudoscientific nonsense calendar adjustment which tortures us night owls even more during what should be the most productive months of the year. And being a night owl is correlated with intelligence, creativity, attractiveness, being a good gambler too (see Titanic Thompson) AND SUICIDE BECAUSE OF THIS HORRIFIC SOCIETAL BIAS
I would be quite happy to stick with GMT the whole year. Unfortunately I suspect the morons would insist on having BST the whole year istead whch would be vile.
Moron here. GMT equals waiting till evenings are getting really shit and then making it worse, and then rectifying the situation when things have improved so much anyway that nobody cares.
All year GMT is better for people who do more stuff in natural light between 5.30 and 8.30 in the morning than they do between 4.30 and 7.30 in the afternoon. All year BST is better for the rest of us.
How about those who want to go to work in the light? Particularly the northern half of the country. It does nothing matter north of Watford Gap?
I live considerably north of Hadrian's Wall. We don't go to work in the light in the winter, nor come home in it, as it is.
Funny. In Aberdeen in midwinter sunrise is 8.45 and twilight starts an hour earlier than that. If you switched to BST for the whole year then it would still be pitch dark when everyone is going to school and work. Sunrise wouldn't be until 9.45. Screw that.
Sorry. My point was that there simply aren't enough hours of daylight in the Winter up here regardless of how you fiddle with the clocks.
So a depressing but perhaps utterly predictable update from my Surrey tory friend.
For weeks she has told me that for the first time in her life she wouldn’t vote for the Conservatives, that she would vote LibDem or Labour (edit or even Green), that the tory party had left her behind not the other way around, that she dislikes Rishi Sunak, that people like Badenoch and Braverman are thoroughly nasty etc. etc. etc.
And tonight? She has told me ...
… that she is voting Conservative
Why? Because her MP Jonathan Lord helped Seema Misa the sub post mistress who was imprisoned whilst pregnant whilst the LibDems’ Ed Davey didn’t listen.
To be honest, I resigned myself to her staying blue. I didn’t criticise her though I did gently point out that she could be voting for Badenoch or Braverman (whom she professes to loathe).
A certain, perhaps significant, number always return to the fold.
Cons 100-200 seats is very much in play in my opinion.
If turnout is well below expected levels, what are the consequences?
1. Labour disproportionately loses. There's not that much enthusiasm for Starmer, merely resigned acceptance. 2. GOTV matters. If turnout is low, then ground game is more important, and the ability to get your vote out is more important. 3. Parties with older voters do better - probably a net positive for both Reform and the Conservatives.
Top of the head: I think it means that the Conservatives and Reform outperform, Labour underperforms, and the LDs do well in places where they have lots of tellers and knocker-uppers. It makes the first 40-odd seats easier, but the next 40 much harder.
Of course, the next question is: will this have impacted postal voting? Also, will voter ID laws have a further dampening effect?
In 2001 turnout collapsed from 71% to 59% and the seats totals for the parties hardly changed at all.
Yep. The funny thing will be if any of these people get seriously stung with a tax that had never even entered their heads.
If Labour wants to do any of their pet projects (on top of just day to day managing) they are going to have to introduce some serious tax rises. And with IT, NI and VAT ruled out they will have to go into new areas.
I don't know - how about extending IHT to lifetime gifts with tax payable on the spot. Bank of Mum and Dad wants to fund a house deposit - 20% (or maybe 40%?) tax payable on the spot on the transfer.
When they get clobbered with that they'll think why on earth didn't they vote for the Conservatives offering sod all. Because sod all would have been infinitely preferable.
Labour have painted themselves into a corner on taxation, they have ruled out most of the main options, and fiscal drag is already baked in to the plans. Also it is very unlikely that growth will be as fast or as large as necessary to close the tax gap. So there are likely to be a lot of indirect tax rises, and many of those are going to make a lot of people quite angry I expect.
Reeves could have her very own omnishambles budget.. this very year.
I hope so. Past experience shows that such budgets preface a further 11 or 12 years in power.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
It's the opposite of irrational. The Tories' record is so bad - quite possibly the worst in modern history - and for many people they have been pursuing policies whose results seem actively malicious towards them. They are utterly discredited in many eyes that means people want a different approach - much as that may pain you that your team and its ideas have completely failed people.
The entirely irrational thing would be voting Conservative if you feel failed by the government. Einstein and the definition of insanity and all that.
If you are around 35 and a middle earning professional (a group who used to be key swing voters), so have lived under the Tories all your adult life, you have found it more difficult to buy your own home, and earn less in real terms than your 2010 doppelganger did. Your local amenities are worse. You wait longer for any NHS treatment and are unlikely to be able to find an NHS dentist. Oh and if you wanted to get away, you now can't live, work or study easily in loads of places you could in 2010.
We could go on listing these things that have got worse - but on top of this the Tories give every impression that they don't like you, and don't value or even consider your views. Britain feels genuinely broken and what's worse you don't think the Conservatives have a plan to fix it and help you.
So of course it's entirely rational to vote Labour. Warnings about 'socialism' aren't scary because you haven't had the kind of tax cuts that might make you feel better off, nor has the economy grown at any reasonable clip over the past 14 years.
You see a crumbling, meaner, less effective state, low growth, and some of the downright toxicity that emanates from the Tory benches and of course you are more receptive to Labour's arguments about needing to take on a more activist role in fixing things, and raising taxes high earners or those with wealth tend to pay to do so.
You are fully aware that you don't agree with Labour on everything, and know that there might be a time when you're on the wrong end of a decision they make. But frankly, you decide they can't be worse than the other lot and they at least give the impression they like people like me and look like they listen now and again. It's not a difficult rational choice to make.
So in this case you do sound a bit like a Corbynite blaming the electorate for not seeing the Wonders of St. Jeremy, when of course for many rejecting him was also for entirely rational reasons based on the evidence of their eyes. So it is now with the Conservatives. As it was for Labour, the answer is to listen to people and why they are upset with you and prefer the other lot, not to think they are "irrational" for doing so.
No, it's irrational.
People voting Labour are idiots. End of.
A very Corbynite altitude to voters. You seem ready for a decent stint in opposition.
Nope. It's just another example of what I said earlier: an overly emotive rant (and an entirely unbalanced one) from people who made up their minds long ago, and are working backwards from that to find the evidence to fit it.
It's deeply disappointing to see so many pb'ers I respect fall into this trap. But hey ho.
Before rishi sprung the election on us I booked a night away in Edinburgh tomorrow night so I won't be doing my usual election night all-nighter. hope you all enjoy it and it is profitable for the punters among us🤞.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
If by some fluke the Conservatives got a majority tomorrow, then by Monday they'd be back at the in-fighting and where would that get us?
Don't be silly. Labour are going to get a massive majority.
This is now about whether you want to live in a one-party state for the next 5 years, or not.
I’ve been living in a one party state for the last 5 years, one party that pulls in 5 different directions. It’s been an utter fiasco.
I’m voting LibDem but looking forward to SKS having a decent majority. I’d like to hope he’ll do something positive with it but that may be too much to expect.
So is Biden done? Harris / Sanders ticket incoming?
Sanders is like bolting Corbyn on to the ticket. Yes, he's still sharp. But he is seriously left wing for main stream US politics.
We need Biden to walk the plank first. I don't mind Harris but Whitmer with a VP who is a Representative/ Senator from a rust belt swing state makes sense.
A Harris-Bernie ticket would be like Starmer replacing Reeves with Burgon. Not going to happen.
Whitmer - Warnock
Ipsos finds only Michelle Obama does better than Biden v Trump
'According to a new poll on Tuesday conducted by Reuters and Ipsos, the former first lady is the only Democrat that is able to attain victory over Trump in November in a hypothetical match, leading with 50% support compared to his 39%.
In its findings, Ipsos wrote:
All other hypothetical Democratic candidates either perform similarly to or worse than Biden against Trump.
Vice-president Kamala Harris hypothetically wins 42% of registered voters to Trump’s 43%. California Governor Gavin Newsom hypothetically wins 39% of registered voters to Trump’s 42%.
Come on HY, that was then this is now. Biden's campaign is hopeless. Even I'd do better up against Trump than Biden now. He has to go.
Just posting the poll evidence, only Michelle Obama does better than Biden v Trump on that poll even after the first debate
The polls don't really matter. It's the facts on the ground. You simply cannot have a president who is demented. A moment's thought tells you this - think through the ramifications. What if his dementia proceeds towards aggression, paranois, delusions, hallucinations - should he be obeyed if he orders a first strike? How can they disobey?
You could argue they would enact the 25th amendment? But how can we trust that they will, or even get a consensus for doing this? They haven't yet and there is strong evidence that his close aides have known for months there is a massive problem - see the CNN and Time magazine interviews, and so forth. Who will be running the country as he declines?
Also, what does it do to the American political system that you bake in all these lies, so it becomes OK to lie about a president's mental health?
Also also what will this do to American security? Biden has already overseen two new wars, I can imagine the Chinese might fancy their chances with Taiwan as the American elite is convulsed by the alleged insanity of the POTUS
On and on it goes. It's pretty basic. The POTUS should not be a mad person. Endex
Assuming everyone lies to pollsters I have a fiver on NOM at 32. I'll enjoy the anticipation all day tomorrow - which is in itself a decent return for £5 - and if I win I'll post the evidence here and modestly accept any polite congratulations.
If I vote tomorrow I'll inscribe my X for Sir Jeremy Wright. He's an intelligent, one-nation Remainer, good constituency member, briefly in Theresa May's cabinet, and has done nothing to deserve defenestration. If the Tories have any future (big if, I know) they'll need people like him to hold the fort.
Recent MRPs have Labour running second in Kenilworth and Southam. I don't know where they get this idea. From my observation Labour haven't started campaigning yet while the LibDems are still shoving leaflets through every nook and cranny. If there is a drift (or even a stampede) away from the Tories in K&S it's more likely to favour LD, Reform or even Green than Sleepy Starmer.
Personally I can’t see how anyone can vote Tory after the past five years. That photo of HM in mourning while number 10 partied should be enough for any self respecting conservative to sit on their hands.
Very easily. The Conservatives are total shit BUT they've also spent the last fourteen years lining the pockets of the legions of minted home owning pensioners. There are also meaningful numbers of people who detest Labour for a variety of reasons, along with some residual, blue rosette on a pig, cultural habit voters. Altogether it's a sizeable constituency.
If they manage to poll anywhere below 30% it'll be a landmark - this has never happened to Con before at a GE - but they probably won't be as far under 30% as many of us would like.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
It's the opposite of irrational. The Tories' record is so bad - quite possibly the worst in modern history - and for many people they have been pursuing policies whose results seem actively malicious towards them. They are utterly discredited in many eyes that means people want a different approach - much as that may pain you that your team and its ideas have completely failed people.
The entirely irrational thing would be voting Conservative if you feel failed by the government. Einstein and the definition of insanity and all that.
If you are around 35 and a middle earning professional (a group who used to be key swing voters), so have lived under the Tories all your adult life, you have found it more difficult to buy your own home, and earn less in real terms than your 2010 doppelganger did. Your local amenities are worse. You wait longer for any NHS treatment and are unlikely to be able to find an NHS dentist. Oh and if you wanted to get away, you now can't live, work or study easily in loads of places you could in 2010.
We could go on listing these things that have got worse - but on top of this the Tories give every impression that they don't like you, and don't value or even consider your views. Britain feels genuinely broken and what's worse you don't think the Conservatives have a plan to fix it and help you.
So of course it's entirely rational to vote Labour. Warnings about 'socialism' aren't scary because you haven't had the kind of tax cuts that might make you feel better off, nor has the economy grown at any reasonable clip over the past 14 years.
You see a crumbling, meaner, less effective state, low growth, and some of the downright toxicity that emanates from the Tory benches and of course you are more receptive to Labour's arguments about needing to take on a more activist role in fixing things, and raising taxes high earners or those with wealth tend to pay to do so.
You are fully aware that you don't agree with Labour on everything, and know that there might be a time when you're on the wrong end of a decision they make. But frankly, you decide they can't be worse than the other lot and they at least give the impression they like people like me and look like they listen now and again. It's not a difficult rational choice to make.
So in this case you do sound a bit like a Corbynite blaming the electorate for not seeing the Wonders of St. Jeremy, when of course for many rejecting him was also for entirely rational reasons based on the evidence of their eyes. So it is now with the Conservatives. As it was for Labour, the answer is to listen to people and why they are upset with you and prefer the other lot, not to think they are "irrational" for doing so.
No, it's irrational.
People voting Labour are idiots. End of.
Go to bed Casino, you're being an arse.
No, the idiots voting Labour are being an arse and the Herd going around liking their rants.
Take a step back. Prepare for a long haul and ask yourself what went wrong and what you need to do to be better. Never blame the voters.
Can anyone explain exactly why Pensions are not subject to Inheritance Tax (other than obviously to spouse).
Seems to me that every penny should be subject to it. The purpose of tax free pension contributions is to fund your old age and stop you being dependent on the state. Not provide a bung to Tarquin and Melinda when you snuff it.
its the one advantage defined contribution schemes have over defined benefit ones that is you snuff it you can pass on the monies to your intended
Personally I can’t see how anyone can vote Tory after the past five years. That photo of HM in mourning while number 10 partied should be enough for any self respecting conservative to sit on their hands.
You'd like a one-party state with zero opposition then? Really?
What when the boot is on the other foot one day and you're wiped out?
Vicky Young on BBC News. How was she overlooked for Kuenssberg?
I am not that impressed with Mason either, but head and shoulders better than his predecessor.
I have a dim memory that Vicky Young said she didn't want a more high profile (and therefore way more silly hours) job. But I could be recalling wrongly.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
If by some fluke the Conservatives got a majority tomorrow, then by Monday they'd be back at the in-fighting and where would that get us?
Don't be silly. Labour are going to get a massive majority.
This is now about whether you want to live in a one-party state for the next 5 years, or not.
'One-party state' Lol.
You have some good arguments but then you undermine them by making silly comments like that.
Nazi Germany was a one-party state; the Soviet Union was a one-party state; Franco's Spain was a one-party state.
Britain after this election will continue to be a multi-party state whatever the results.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
If by some fluke the Conservatives got a majority tomorrow, then by Monday they'd be back at the in-fighting and where would that get us?
Don't be silly. Labour are going to get a massive majority.
This is now about whether you want to live in a one-party state for the next 5 years, or not.
Did you oppose a large Tory majority in 2019?
A majority of 80 is different to one of 300.
Labour had over 200 MPs in opposition and maintained a healthy opposition throughout.
If the fantasy taxes that this Labour government are likely to impose on this board ever came to pass, then the entire national debt would be paid off in a single year. Then there'd be a proper tax cutting budget in Labour's second year.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
It's the opposite of irrational. The Tories' record is so bad - quite possibly the worst in modern history - and for many people they have been pursuing policies whose results seem actively malicious towards them. They are utterly discredited in many eyes that means people want a different approach - much as that may pain you that your team and its ideas have completely failed people.
The entirely irrational thing would be voting Conservative if you feel failed by the government. Einstein and the definition of insanity and all that.
If you are around 35 and a middle earning professional (a group who used to be key swing voters), so have lived under the Tories all your adult life, you have found it more difficult to buy your own home, and earn less in real terms than your 2010 doppelganger did. Your local amenities are worse. You wait longer for any NHS treatment and are unlikely to be able to find an NHS dentist. Oh and if you wanted to get away, you now can't live, work or study easily in loads of places you could in 2010.
We could go on listing these things that have got worse - but on top of this the Tories give every impression that they don't like you, and don't value or even consider your views. Britain feels genuinely broken and what's worse you don't think the Conservatives have a plan to fix it and help you.
So of course it's entirely rational to vote Labour. Warnings about 'socialism' aren't scary because you haven't had the kind of tax cuts that might make you feel better off, nor has the economy grown at any reasonable clip over the past 14 years.
You see a crumbling, meaner, less effective state, low growth, and some of the downright toxicity that emanates from the Tory benches and of course you are more receptive to Labour's arguments about needing to take on a more activist role in fixing things, and raising taxes high earners or those with wealth tend to pay to do so.
You are fully aware that you don't agree with Labour on everything, and know that there might be a time when you're on the wrong end of a decision they make. But frankly, you decide they can't be worse than the other lot and they at least give the impression they like people like me and look like they listen now and again. It's not a difficult rational choice to make.
So in this case you do sound a bit like a Corbynite blaming the electorate for not seeing the Wonders of St. Jeremy, when of course for many rejecting him was also for entirely rational reasons based on the evidence of their eyes. So it is now with the Conservatives. As it was for Labour, the answer is to listen to people and why they are upset with you and prefer the other lot, not to think they are "irrational" for doing so.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
If by some fluke the Conservatives got a majority tomorrow, then by Monday they'd be back at the in-fighting and where would that get us?
Don't be silly. Labour are going to get a massive majority.
This is now about whether you want to live in a one-party state for the next 5 years, or not.
'One-party state' Lol.
You have some good arguments but then you undermine them by making silly comments like that.
Nazi Germany was a one-party state; the Soviet Union was a one-party state; Franco's Spain was a one-party state.
Britain after this election will continue to be a multi-party state whatever the results.
We know SKS hates opposition and freezes out those who cross him/don't back him. We know he wants to abolish the Lords. We know he hates internal opposition. We know he'd love to wipe out the Tories.
Yes, he wants a one-party state.
You get to decide whether to give him a blank cheque or not.
Can anyone explain exactly why Pensions are not subject to Inheritance Tax (other than obviously to spouse).
Seems to me that every penny should be subject to it. The purpose of tax free pension contributions is to fund your old age and stop you being dependent on the state. Not provide a bung to Tarquin and Melinda when you snuff it.
its the one advantage defined contribution schemes have over defined benefit ones that is you snuff it you can pass on the monies to your intended
It's a loophole and it is gone this September I suspect.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
It's the opposite of irrational. The Tories' record is so bad - quite possibly the worst in modern history - and for many people they have been pursuing policies whose results seem actively malicious towards them. They are utterly discredited in many eyes that means people want a different approach - much as that may pain you that your team and its ideas have completely failed people.
The entirely irrational thing would be voting Conservative if you feel failed by the government. Einstein and the definition of insanity and all that.
If you are around 35 and a middle earning professional (a group who used to be key swing voters), so have lived under the Tories all your adult life, you have found it more difficult to buy your own home, and earn less in real terms than your 2010 doppelganger did. Your local amenities are worse. You wait longer for any NHS treatment and are unlikely to be able to find an NHS dentist. Oh and if you wanted to get away, you now can't live, work or study easily in loads of places you could in 2010.
We could go on listing these things that have got worse - but on top of this the Tories give every impression that they don't like you, and don't value or even consider your views. Britain feels genuinely broken and what's worse you don't think the Conservatives have a plan to fix it and help you.
So of course it's entirely rational to vote Labour. Warnings about 'socialism' aren't scary because you haven't had the kind of tax cuts that might make you feel better off, nor has the economy grown at any reasonable clip over the past 14 years.
You see a crumbling, meaner, less effective state, low growth, and some of the downright toxicity that emanates from the Tory benches and of course you are more receptive to Labour's arguments about needing to take on a more activist role in fixing things, and raising taxes high earners or those with wealth tend to pay to do so.
You are fully aware that you don't agree with Labour on everything, and know that there might be a time when you're on the wrong end of a decision they make. But frankly, you decide they can't be worse than the other lot and they at least give the impression they like people like me and look like they listen now and again. It's not a difficult rational choice to make.
So in this case you do sound a bit like a Corbynite blaming the electorate for not seeing the Wonders of St. Jeremy, when of course for many rejecting him was also for entirely rational reasons based on the evidence of their eyes. So it is now with the Conservatives. As it was for Labour, the answer is to listen to people and why they are upset with you and prefer the other lot, not to think they are "irrational" for doing so.
No, it's irrational.
People voting Labour are idiots. End of.
Go to bed Casino, you're being an arse.
No, the idiots voting Labour are being an arse and the Herd going around liking their rants.
Can anyone explain exactly why Pensions are not subject to Inheritance Tax (other than obviously to spouse).
Seems to me that every penny should be subject to it. The purpose of tax free pension contributions is to fund your old age and stop you being dependent on the state. Not provide a bung to Tarquin and Melinda when you snuff it.
its the one advantage defined contribution schemes have over defined benefit ones that is you snuff it you can pass on the monies to your intended
Presumably an advantage that has only existed since Osborne ended the compulsory purchase of annuities with them?
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
If by some fluke the Conservatives got a majority tomorrow, then by Monday they'd be back at the in-fighting and where would that get us?
Don't be silly. Labour are going to get a massive majority.
This is now about whether you want to live in a one-party state for the next 5 years, or not.
Did you oppose a large Tory majority in 2019?
A majority of 80 is different to one of 300.
Labour had over 200 MPs in opposition and maintained a healthy opposition throughout.
Maybe you and your ilk might have reconsidered your support for our absurd voting system, when you had the chance?
If turnout is well below expected levels, what are the consequences?
1. Labour disproportionately loses. There's not that much enthusiasm for Starmer, merely resigned acceptance. 2. GOTV matters. If turnout is low, then ground game is more important, and the ability to get your vote out is more important. 3. Parties with older voters do better - probably a net positive for both Reform and the Conservatives.
Top of the head: I think it means that the Conservatives and Reform outperform, Labour underperforms, and the LDs do well in places where they have lots of tellers and knocker-uppers. It makes the first 40-odd seats easier, but the next 40 much harder.
Of course, the next question is: will this have impacted postal voting? Also, will voter ID laws have a further dampening effect?
In 2001 turnout collapsed from 71% to 59% and the seats totals for the parties hardly changed at all.
That's because times were benign then and people were generally content.
With 24 hours and a few min to polls close I am going with:
Lab 424 Con127 LD 49 SNP 22 Gr 2 PC 3 REF 2 OTH 3 NI 18
Turnout 61%
Based upon looking at my local seats, and a feeling in my bones.
NI 18 looks like a dead cert
The Conservatives are standing in a few NI seats. If they won, then NI would be less than 18!
We'll call that unlikely, but I do like that they bother to stand in a few seats there.
Last time, they stood in 4 seats and their best performance was 4.8% in North Down. They’re standing in 5 seats this time, so they’re on the up!
There’s only 1 seat in common between where they stood last time and this time (Strangford). I think that’s because it’s fairly random where they stand?
Could West Tyrone deliver the lowest Conservative vote share in the whole country? They got 0.4% there when they last stood in 2015.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
It's the opposite of irrational. The Tories' record is so bad - quite possibly the worst in modern history - and for many people they have been pursuing policies whose results seem actively malicious towards them. They are utterly discredited in many eyes that means people want a different approach - much as that may pain you that your team and its ideas have completely failed people.
The entirely irrational thing would be voting Conservative if you feel failed by the government. Einstein and the definition of insanity and all that.
If you are around 35 and a middle earning professional (a group who used to be key swing voters), so have lived under the Tories all your adult life, you have found it more difficult to buy your own home, and earn less in real terms than your 2010 doppelganger did. Your local amenities are worse. You wait longer for any NHS treatment and are unlikely to be able to find an NHS dentist. Oh and if you wanted to get away, you now can't live, work or study easily in loads of places you could in 2010.
We could go on listing these things that have got worse - but on top of this the Tories give every impression that they don't like you, and don't value or even consider your views. Britain feels genuinely broken and what's worse you don't think the Conservatives have a plan to fix it and help you.
So of course it's entirely rational to vote Labour. Warnings about 'socialism' aren't scary because you haven't had the kind of tax cuts that might make you feel better off, nor has the economy grown at any reasonable clip over the past 14 years.
You see a crumbling, meaner, less effective state, low growth, and some of the downright toxicity that emanates from the Tory benches and of course you are more receptive to Labour's arguments about needing to take on a more activist role in fixing things, and raising taxes high earners or those with wealth tend to pay to do so.
You are fully aware that you don't agree with Labour on everything, and know that there might be a time when you're on the wrong end of a decision they make. But frankly, you decide they can't be worse than the other lot and they at least give the impression they like people like me and look like they listen now and again. It's not a difficult rational choice to make.
So in this case you do sound a bit like a Corbynite blaming the electorate for not seeing the Wonders of St. Jeremy, when of course for many rejecting him was also for entirely rational reasons based on the evidence of their eyes. So it is now with the Conservatives. As it was for Labour, the answer is to listen to people and why they are upset with you and prefer the other lot, not to think they are "irrational" for doing so.
No, it's irrational.
People voting Labour are idiots. End of.
Go to bed Casino, you're being an arse.
No, the idiots voting Labour are being an arse and the Herd going around liking their rants.
Take a step back. Prepare for a long haul and ask yourself what went wrong and what you need to do to be better. Never blame the voters.
The voters don't even know what they're voting for - I'm just trying to get them to wake up to it before it's too late.
They aren't listening. And I get silly patronising rants in response.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
Yep. The funny thing will be if any of these people get seriously stung with a tax that had never even entered their heads.
If Labour wants to do any of their pet projects (on top of just day to day managing) they are going to have to introduce some serious tax rises. And with IT, NI and VAT ruled out they will have to go into new areas.
I don't know - how about extending IHT to lifetime gifts with tax payable on the spot. Bank of Mum and Dad wants to fund a house deposit - 20% (or maybe 40%?) tax payable on the spot on the transfer.
When they get clobbered with that they'll think why on earth didn't they vote for the Conservatives offering sod all. Because sod all would have been infinitely preferable.
Not everyone values a few extra £k in their bank account versus, say, public services that work, better health services, a fairer society.
I appreciate this is hard for Tories to understand, but there it is.
I expect that Labour will probably try and tax all these people who spend all day looking at bar charts of their stocks/shares etc and who have built up massive fortunes in ISAs/SIPPs. Trying to rebalance priorities more towards people who go to work on modest incomes and are one shock away from poverty can't honestly be a bad thing in my view even though I guess I will be hit at a personal level.
I am more worried about the possible tilt towards authoritarianism and 'progressive' initiatives to try and re-engineer society, be this through social policy, criminal justice policy etc. Very worrying, particularly given the enormous majority they will probably have.
It'd be no surprise if there were fat and sugar taxes introduced on calorific food. Obesity costs a vast fortune and such measures to try to crush it would also raise quite a lot of money to help prop up the tottering healthcare system.
Generic Ozempic is coming, and it will be really cheap to hand it out to all the fatties, thereby saving the NHS megatons of money and time. This is a very very good thing
Personally I can’t see how anyone can vote Tory after the past five years. That photo of HM in mourning while number 10 partied should be enough for any self respecting conservative to sit on their hands.
You'd like a one-party state with zero opposition then? Really?
What when the boot is on the other foot one day and you're wiped out?
Would you welcome that too?
Eh? A change of government for the first time in 14 years would be the antidote to the one party state.
No party has a right to exist. Not Labour. Not Tory. That is an earned privilege. If you forget that expect someone to replace you.
Good to see some recognition on here that Starmer has played an absolute blinder during the campaign. But it's not just the last six weeks - it's the last four years. He inherited a defeated, demoralised, unelectable and fractured Labour Party in April 2020, and for at least a year he didn't get a hearing because of Covid. Most people - including lefties like me - thought it would take the best part of a decade to sort it out. But he's made the party electable both internally (sorting out the NEC, defeating Corbynism etc,) and externally. The level of self-discipline and being 'on-message' in the Party is really impressive given what we'd got used to since Blair's demise.
Whatever you think of him, he's not just a lucky general - he's made his own luck (obviously with some help from the Tories). What he's achieved is pretty remarkable, as we shall see tomorrow at 10pm.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
If by some fluke the Conservatives got a majority tomorrow, then by Monday they'd be back at the in-fighting and where would that get us?
Don't be silly. Labour are going to get a massive majority.
This is now about whether you want to live in a one-party state for the next 5 years, or not.
I’ve been living in a one party state for the last 5 years, one party that pulls in 5 different directions. It’s been an utter fiasco.
I’m voting LibDem but looking forward to SKS having a decent majority. I’d like to hope he’ll do something positive with it but that may be too much to expect.
There we have it: whatboutism followed by a lot of projection and "hope".
Can anyone explain exactly why Pensions are not subject to Inheritance Tax (other than obviously to spouse).
Seems to me that every penny should be subject to it. The purpose of tax free pension contributions is to fund your old age and stop you being dependent on the state. Not provide a bung to Tarquin and Melinda when you snuff it.
I honestly thought that when the Pensioner and spouse died that was it and the pension was no more. I assumed that was how pension companies actually made money. The idea that pensions could be inherited down the generations is a new one to me.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
It's the opposite of irrational. The Tories' record is so bad - quite possibly the worst in modern history - and for many people they have been pursuing policies whose results seem actively malicious towards them. They are utterly discredited in many eyes that means people want a different approach - much as that may pain you that your team and its ideas have completely failed people.
The entirely irrational thing would be voting Conservative if you feel failed by the government. Einstein and the definition of insanity and all that.
If you are around 35 and a middle earning professional (a group who used to be key swing voters), so have lived under the Tories all your adult life, you have found it more difficult to buy your own home, and earn less in real terms than your 2010 doppelganger did. Your local amenities are worse. You wait longer for any NHS treatment and are unlikely to be able to find an NHS dentist. Oh and if you wanted to get away, you now can't live, work or study easily in loads of places you could in 2010.
We could go on listing these things that have got worse - but on top of this the Tories give every impression that they don't like you, and don't value or even consider your views. Britain feels genuinely broken and what's worse you don't think the Conservatives have a plan to fix it and help you.
So of course it's entirely rational to vote Labour. Warnings about 'socialism' aren't scary because you haven't had the kind of tax cuts that might make you feel better off, nor has the economy grown at any reasonable clip over the past 14 years.
You see a crumbling, meaner, less effective state, low growth, and some of the downright toxicity that emanates from the Tory benches and of course you are more receptive to Labour's arguments about needing to take on a more activist role in fixing things, and raising taxes high earners or those with wealth tend to pay to do so.
You are fully aware that you don't agree with Labour on everything, and know that there might be a time when you're on the wrong end of a decision they make. But frankly, you decide they can't be worse than the other lot and they at least give the impression they like people like me and look like they listen now and again. It's not a difficult rational choice to make.
So in this case you do sound a bit like a Corbynite blaming the electorate for not seeing the Wonders of St. Jeremy, when of course for many rejecting him was also for entirely rational reasons based on the evidence of their eyes. So it is now with the Conservatives. As it was for Labour, the answer is to listen to people and why they are upset with you and prefer the other lot, not to think they are "irrational" for doing so.
No, it's irrational.
People voting Labour are idiots. End of.
Go to bed Casino, you're being an arse.
No, the idiots voting Labour are being an arse and the Herd going around liking their rants.
Take a step back. Prepare for a long haul and ask yourself what went wrong and what you need to do to be better. Never blame the voters.
The voters don't even know what they're voting for - I'm just trying to get them to wake up to it before it's too late.
They aren't listening. And I get silly patronising rants in response.
So is Biden done? Harris / Sanders ticket incoming?
Sanders is like bolting Corbyn on to the ticket. Yes, he's still sharp. But he is seriously left wing for main stream US politics.
We need Biden to walk the plank first. I don't mind Harris but Whitmer with a VP who is a Representative/ Senator from a rust belt swing state makes sense.
A Harris-Bernie ticket would be like Starmer replacing Reeves with Burgon. Not going to happen.
Whitmer - Warnock
Ipsos finds only Michelle Obama does better than Biden v Trump
'According to a new poll on Tuesday conducted by Reuters and Ipsos, the former first lady is the only Democrat that is able to attain victory over Trump in November in a hypothetical match, leading with 50% support compared to his 39%.
In its findings, Ipsos wrote:
All other hypothetical Democratic candidates either perform similarly to or worse than Biden against Trump.
Vice-president Kamala Harris hypothetically wins 42% of registered voters to Trump’s 43%. California Governor Gavin Newsom hypothetically wins 39% of registered voters to Trump’s 42%.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
It's the opposite of irrational. The Tories' record is so bad - quite possibly the worst in modern history - and for many people they have been pursuing policies whose results seem actively malicious towards them. They are utterly discredited in many eyes that means people want a different approach - much as that may pain you that your team and its ideas have completely failed people.
The entirely irrational thing would be voting Conservative if you feel failed by the government. Einstein and the definition of insanity and all that.
If you are around 35 and a middle earning professional (a group who used to be key swing voters), so have lived under the Tories all your adult life, you have found it more difficult to buy your own home, and earn less in real terms than your 2010 doppelganger did. Your local amenities are worse. You wait longer for any NHS treatment and are unlikely to be able to find an NHS dentist. Oh and if you wanted to get away, you now can't live, work or study easily in loads of places you could in 2010.
We could go on listing these things that have got worse - but on top of this the Tories give every impression that they don't like you, and don't value or even consider your views. Britain feels genuinely broken and what's worse you don't think the Conservatives have a plan to fix it and help you.
So of course it's entirely rational to vote Labour. Warnings about 'socialism' aren't scary because you haven't had the kind of tax cuts that might make you feel better off, nor has the economy grown at any reasonable clip over the past 14 years.
You see a crumbling, meaner, less effective state, low growth, and some of the downright toxicity that emanates from the Tory benches and of course you are more receptive to Labour's arguments about needing to take on a more activist role in fixing things, and raising taxes high earners or those with wealth tend to pay to do so.
You are fully aware that you don't agree with Labour on everything, and know that there might be a time when you're on the wrong end of a decision they make. But frankly, you decide they can't be worse than the other lot and they at least give the impression they like people like me and look like they listen now and again. It's not a difficult rational choice to make.
So in this case you do sound a bit like a Corbynite blaming the electorate for not seeing the Wonders of St. Jeremy, when of course for many rejecting him was also for entirely rational reasons based on the evidence of their eyes. So it is now with the Conservatives. As it was for Labour, the answer is to listen to people and why they are upset with you and prefer the other lot, not to think they are "irrational" for doing so.
No, it's irrational.
People voting Labour are idiots. End of.
Go to bed Casino, you're being an arse.
No, the idiots voting Labour are being an arse and the Herd going around liking their rants.
Take a step back. Prepare for a long haul and ask yourself what went wrong and what you need to do to be better. Never blame the voters.
The voters don't even know what they're voting for - I'm just trying to get them to wake up to it before it's too late.
They aren't listening. And I get silly patronising rants in response.
So I will be silly and patronising back.
Have an early night tomorrow, and when you wake up it will mostly be done.
With 24 hours and a few min to polls close I am going with:
Lab 424 Con127 LD 49 SNP 22 Gr 2 PC 3 REF 2 OTH 3 NI 18
Turnout 61%
Based upon looking at my local seats, and a feeling in my bones.
NI 18 looks like a dead cert
The Conservatives are standing in a few NI seats. If they won, then NI would be less than 18!
We'll call that unlikely, but I do like that they bother to stand in a few seats there.
Last time, they stood in 4 seats and their best performance was 4.8% in North Down. They’re standing in 5 seats this time, so they’re on the up!
There’s only 1 seat in common between where they stood last time and this time (Strangford). I think that’s because it’s fairly random where they stand?
Could West Tyrone deliver the lowest Conservative vote share in the whole country? They got 0.4% there when they last stood in 2015.
That's a great guess, among seats where they're standing.
Yep. The funny thing will be if any of these people get seriously stung with a tax that had never even entered their heads.
If Labour wants to do any of their pet projects (on top of just day to day managing) they are going to have to introduce some serious tax rises. And with IT, NI and VAT ruled out they will have to go into new areas.
I don't know - how about extending IHT to lifetime gifts with tax payable on the spot. Bank of Mum and Dad wants to fund a house deposit - 20% (or maybe 40%?) tax payable on the spot on the transfer.
When they get clobbered with that they'll think why on earth didn't they vote for the Conservatives offering sod all. Because sod all would have been infinitely preferable.
Labour have painted themselves into a corner on taxation, they have ruled out most of the main options, and fiscal drag is already baked in to the plans. Also it is very unlikely that growth will be as fast or as large as necessary to close the tax gap. So there are likely to be a lot of indirect tax rises, and many of those are going to make a lot of people quite angry I expect.
Reeves could have her very own omnishambles budget.. this very year.
I hope so. Past experience shows that such budgets preface a further 11 or 12 years in power.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
Yep. The funny thing will be if any of these people get seriously stung with a tax that had never even entered their heads.
If Labour wants to do any of their pet projects (on top of just day to day managing) they are going to have to introduce some serious tax rises. And with IT, NI and VAT ruled out they will have to go into new areas.
I don't know - how about extending IHT to lifetime gifts with tax payable on the spot. Bank of Mum and Dad wants to fund a house deposit - 20% (or maybe 40%?) tax payable on the spot on the transfer.
When they get clobbered with that they'll think why on earth didn't they vote for the Conservatives offering sod all. Because sod all would have been infinitely preferable.
Not everyone values a few extra £k in their bank account versus, say, public services that work, better health services, a fairer society.
I appreciate this is hard for Tories to understand, but there it is.
I expect that Labour will probably try and tax all these people who spend all day looking at bar charts of their stocks/shares etc and who have built up massive fortunes in ISAs/SIPPs. Trying to rebalance priorities more towards people who go to work on modest incomes and are one shock away from poverty can't honestly be a bad thing in my view even though I guess I will be hit at a personal level.
I am more worried about the possible tilt towards authoritarianism and 'progressive' initiatives to try and re-engineer society, be this through social policy, criminal justice policy etc. Very worrying, particularly given the enormous majority they will probably have.
It'd be no surprise if there were fat and sugar taxes introduced on calorific food. Obesity costs a vast fortune and such measures to try to crush it would also raise quite a lot of money to help prop up the tottering healthcare system.
Generic Ozempic is coming, and it will be really cheap to hand it out to all the fatties, thereby saving the NHS megatons of money and time. This is a very very good thing
Until you get galloping cockrot (fourniers gangrene) due to all the glucose in your piss.
So a depressing but perhaps utterly predictable update from my Surrey tory friend.
For weeks she has told me that for the first time in her life she wouldn’t vote for the Conservatives, that she would vote LibDem or Labour (edit or even Green), that the tory party had left her behind not the other way around, that she dislikes Rishi Sunak, that people like Badenoch and Braverman are thoroughly nasty etc. etc. etc.
And tonight? She has told me ...
… that she is voting Conservative
Why? Because her MP Jonathan Lord helped Seema Misa the sub post mistress who was imprisoned whilst pregnant whilst the LibDems’ Ed Davey didn’t listen.
To be honest, I resigned myself to her staying blue. I didn’t criticise her though I did gently point out that she could be voting for Badenoch or Braverman (whom she professes to loathe).
A certain, perhaps significant, number always return to the fold.
Cons 100-200 seats is very much in play in my opinion.
I don't think any shittiness there. An interesting anecdote because we have heard, second hand, the thoughts of the Tory friend for years now. Presumably @Heathener is of the view said Tory friend won't mind. And kudos to Heathener for reporting a final bit of anecdata which absolutely fails to fit the narrative she has been telling these last few years.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
It's the opposite of irrational. The Tories' record is so bad - quite possibly the worst in modern history - and for many people they have been pursuing policies whose results seem actively malicious towards them. They are utterly discredited in many eyes that means people want a different approach - much as that may pain you that your team and its ideas have completely failed people.
The entirely irrational thing would be voting Conservative if you feel failed by the government. Einstein and the definition of insanity and all that.
If you are around 35 and a middle earning professional (a group who used to be key swing voters), so have lived under the Tories all your adult life, you have found it more difficult to buy your own home, and earn less in real terms than your 2010 doppelganger did. Your local amenities are worse. You wait longer for any NHS treatment and are unlikely to be able to find an NHS dentist. Oh and if you wanted to get away, you now can't live, work or study easily in loads of places you could in 2010.
We could go on listing these things that have got worse - but on top of this the Tories give every impression that they don't like you, and don't value or even consider your views. Britain feels genuinely broken and what's worse you don't think the Conservatives have a plan to fix it and help you.
So of course it's entirely rational to vote Labour. Warnings about 'socialism' aren't scary because you haven't had the kind of tax cuts that might make you feel better off, nor has the economy grown at any reasonable clip over the past 14 years.
You see a crumbling, meaner, less effective state, low growth, and some of the downright toxicity that emanates from the Tory benches and of course you are more receptive to Labour's arguments about needing to take on a more activist role in fixing things, and raising taxes high earners or those with wealth tend to pay to do so.
You are fully aware that you don't agree with Labour on everything, and know that there might be a time when you're on the wrong end of a decision they make. But frankly, you decide they can't be worse than the other lot and they at least give the impression they like people like me and look like they listen now and again. It's not a difficult rational choice to make.
So in this case you do sound a bit like a Corbynite blaming the electorate for not seeing the Wonders of St. Jeremy, when of course for many rejecting him was also for entirely rational reasons based on the evidence of their eyes. So it is now with the Conservatives. As it was for Labour, the answer is to listen to people and why they are upset with you and prefer the other lot, not to think they are "irrational" for doing so.
No, it's irrational.
People voting Labour are idiots. End of.
Go to bed Casino, you're being an arse.
No, the idiots voting Labour are being an arse and the Herd going around liking their rants.
Take a step back. Prepare for a long haul and ask yourself what went wrong and what you need to do to be better. Never blame the voters.
The voters don't even know what they're voting for - I'm just trying to get them to wake up to it before it's too late.
They aren't listening. And I get silly patronising rants in response.
So I will be silly and patronising back.
You're currently the PB equivalent of someone standing bollock naked bar a sandwich board with "The End Is Nigh" written on it. The voters know what they're voting for. It isn't your man. Cope.
Can anyone explain exactly why Pensions are not subject to Inheritance Tax (other than obviously to spouse).
Seems to me that every penny should be subject to it. The purpose of tax free pension contributions is to fund your old age and stop you being dependent on the state. Not provide a bung to Tarquin and Melinda when you snuff it.
I honestly thought that when the Pensioner and spouse died that was it and the pension was no more. I assumed that was how pension companies actually made money. The idea that pensions could be inherited down the generations is a new one to me.
With a DB scheme you normally get guaranteed the first five years, if you don’t live that long
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
It's the opposite of irrational. The Tories' record is so bad - quite possibly the worst in modern history - and for many people they have been pursuing policies whose results seem actively malicious towards them. They are utterly discredited in many eyes that means people want a different approach - much as that may pain you that your team and its ideas have completely failed people.
The entirely irrational thing would be voting Conservative if you feel failed by the government. Einstein and the definition of insanity and all that.
If you are around 35 and a middle earning professional (a group who used to be key swing voters), so have lived under the Tories all your adult life, you have found it more difficult to buy your own home, and earn less in real terms than your 2010 doppelganger did. Your local amenities are worse. You wait longer for any NHS treatment and are unlikely to be able to find an NHS dentist. Oh and if you wanted to get away, you now can't live, work or study easily in loads of places you could in 2010.
We could go on listing these things that have got worse - but on top of this the Tories give every impression that they don't like you, and don't value or even consider your views. Britain feels genuinely broken and what's worse you don't think the Conservatives have a plan to fix it and help you.
So of course it's entirely rational to vote Labour. Warnings about 'socialism' aren't scary because you haven't had the kind of tax cuts that might make you feel better off, nor has the economy grown at any reasonable clip over the past 14 years.
You see a crumbling, meaner, less effective state, low growth, and some of the downright toxicity that emanates from the Tory benches and of course you are more receptive to Labour's arguments about needing to take on a more activist role in fixing things, and raising taxes high earners or those with wealth tend to pay to do so.
You are fully aware that you don't agree with Labour on everything, and know that there might be a time when you're on the wrong end of a decision they make. But frankly, you decide they can't be worse than the other lot and they at least give the impression they like people like me and look like they listen now and again. It's not a difficult rational choice to make.
So in this case you do sound a bit like a Corbynite blaming the electorate for not seeing the Wonders of St. Jeremy, when of course for many rejecting him was also for entirely rational reasons based on the evidence of their eyes. So it is now with the Conservatives. As it was for Labour, the answer is to listen to people and why they are upset with you and prefer the other lot, not to think they are "irrational" for doing so.
No, it's irrational.
People voting Labour are idiots. End of.
True - but as nothing to the utter numpties who’ve been voting Tory fir the last decade.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
It's the opposite of irrational. The Tories' record is so bad - quite possibly the worst in modern history - and for many people they have been pursuing policies whose results seem actively malicious towards them. They are utterly discredited in many eyes that means people want a different approach - much as that may pain you that your team and its ideas have completely failed people.
The entirely irrational thing would be voting Conservative if you feel failed by the government. Einstein and the definition of insanity and all that.
If you are around 35 and a middle earning professional (a group who used to be key swing voters), so have lived under the Tories all your adult life, you have found it more difficult to buy your own home, and earn less in real terms than your 2010 doppelganger did. Your local amenities are worse. You wait longer for any NHS treatment and are unlikely to be able to find an NHS dentist. Oh and if you wanted to get away, you now can't live, work or study easily in loads of places you could in 2010.
We could go on listing these things that have got worse - but on top of this the Tories give every impression that they don't like you, and don't value or even consider your views. Britain feels genuinely broken and what's worse you don't think the Conservatives have a plan to fix it and help you.
So of course it's entirely rational to vote Labour. Warnings about 'socialism' aren't scary because you haven't had the kind of tax cuts that might make you feel better off, nor has the economy grown at any reasonable clip over the past 14 years.
You see a crumbling, meaner, less effective state, low growth, and some of the downright toxicity that emanates from the Tory benches and of course you are more receptive to Labour's arguments about needing to take on a more activist role in fixing things, and raising taxes high earners or those with wealth tend to pay to do so.
You are fully aware that you don't agree with Labour on everything, and know that there might be a time when you're on the wrong end of a decision they make. But frankly, you decide they can't be worse than the other lot and they at least give the impression they like people like me and look like they listen now and again. It's not a difficult rational choice to make.
So in this case you do sound a bit like a Corbynite blaming the electorate for not seeing the Wonders of St. Jeremy, when of course for many rejecting him was also for entirely rational reasons based on the evidence of their eyes. So it is now with the Conservatives. As it was for Labour, the answer is to listen to people and why they are upset with you and prefer the other lot, not to think they are "irrational" for doing so.
No, it's irrational.
People voting Labour are idiots. End of.
I think people are voting Labour because it's buggins turn, i.e. things are bad and have been getting bad the last few years. So let's kick the lot in power.
But they are voting Labour just to kick the current lot for being shite, without any real hope that Labour will be any better. There has been no optimism in this election campaign. No promises of improvement. Because Labour don't have any answers either.
Given their lack of a coherent plan for economic growth, plus a potential weak spot on immigration, I can see them being as unpopular as the Tories, or even worse, in a couple of years time.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
Most people vote for emotional reasons I dare say.
Yes, they do so and they work back from that and find reasons to justify it.
Personally I can’t see how anyone can vote Tory after the past five years. That photo of HM in mourning while number 10 partied should be enough for any self respecting conservative to sit on their hands.
You'd like a one-party state with zero opposition then? Really?
What when the boot is on the other foot one day and you're wiped out?
Would you welcome that too?
What exactly have the Tories done to earn the right to be the Opposition? Cos that's what you're fighting for. Or should be.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
It's the opposite of irrational. The Tories' record is so bad - quite possibly the worst in modern history - and for many people they have been pursuing policies whose results seem actively malicious towards them. They are utterly discredited in many eyes that means people want a different approach - much as that may pain you that your team and its ideas have completely failed people.
The entirely irrational thing would be voting Conservative if you feel failed by the government. Einstein and the definition of insanity and all that.
If you are around 35 and a middle earning professional (a group who used to be key swing voters), so have lived under the Tories all your adult life, you have found it more difficult to buy your own home, and earn less in real terms than your 2010 doppelganger did. Your local amenities are worse. You wait longer for any NHS treatment and are unlikely to be able to find an NHS dentist. Oh and if you wanted to get away, you now can't live, work or study easily in loads of places you could in 2010.
We could go on listing these things that have got worse - but on top of this the Tories give every impression that they don't like you, and don't value or even consider your views. Britain feels genuinely broken and what's worse you don't think the Conservatives have a plan to fix it and help you.
So of course it's entirely rational to vote Labour. Warnings about 'socialism' aren't scary because you haven't had the kind of tax cuts that might make you feel better off, nor has the economy grown at any reasonable clip over the past 14 years.
You see a crumbling, meaner, less effective state, low growth, and some of the downright toxicity that emanates from the Tory benches and of course you are more receptive to Labour's arguments about needing to take on a more activist role in fixing things, and raising taxes high earners or those with wealth tend to pay to do so.
You are fully aware that you don't agree with Labour on everything, and know that there might be a time when you're on the wrong end of a decision they make. But frankly, you decide they can't be worse than the other lot and they at least give the impression they like people like me and look like they listen now and again. It's not a difficult rational choice to make.
So in this case you do sound a bit like a Corbynite blaming the electorate for not seeing the Wonders of St. Jeremy, when of course for many rejecting him was also for entirely rational reasons based on the evidence of their eyes. So it is now with the Conservatives. As it was for Labour, the answer is to listen to people and why they are upset with you and prefer the other lot, not to think they are "irrational" for doing so.
No, it's irrational.
People voting Labour are idiots. End of.
Go to bed Casino, you're being an arse.
No, the idiots voting Labour are being an arse and the Herd going around liking their rants.
Take a step back. Prepare for a long haul and ask yourself what went wrong and what you need to do to be better. Never blame the voters.
The voters don't even know what they're voting for - I'm just trying to get them to wake up to it before it's too late.
They aren't listening. And I get silly patronising rants in response.
So I will be silly and patronising back.
Well. I care about you. Take it easy. You will no doubt have happy days soon enough. Let others enjoy their moment if it comes. Celebrate the joy of democracy.
So is Biden done? Harris / Sanders ticket incoming?
Sanders is like bolting Corbyn on to the ticket. Yes, he's still sharp. But he is seriously left wing for main stream US politics.
We need Biden to walk the plank first. I don't mind Harris but Whitmer with a VP who is a Representative/ Senator from a rust belt swing state makes sense.
A Harris-Bernie ticket would be like Starmer replacing Reeves with Burgon. Not going to happen.
Whitmer - Warnock
Ipsos finds only Michelle Obama does better than Biden v Trump
'According to a new poll on Tuesday conducted by Reuters and Ipsos, the former first lady is the only Democrat that is able to attain victory over Trump in November in a hypothetical match, leading with 50% support compared to his 39%.
In its findings, Ipsos wrote:
All other hypothetical Democratic candidates either perform similarly to or worse than Biden against Trump.
Vice-president Kamala Harris hypothetically wins 42% of registered voters to Trump’s 43%. California Governor Gavin Newsom hypothetically wins 39% of registered voters to Trump’s 42%.
Come on HY, that was then this is now. Biden's campaign is hopeless. Even I'd do better up against Trump than Biden now. He has to go.
Just posting the poll evidence, only Michelle Obama does better than Biden v Trump on that poll even after the first debate
The polls don't really matter. It's the facts on the ground. You simply cannot have a president who is demented. A moment's thought tells you this - think through the ramifications. What if his dementia proceeds towards aggression, paranois, delusions, hallucinations - should he be obeyed if he orders a first strike? How can they disobey?
You could argue they would enact the 25th amendment? But how can we trust that they will, or even get a consensus for doing this? They haven't yet and there is strong evidence that his close aides have known for months there is a massive problem - see the CNN and Time magazine interviews, and so forth. Who will be running the country as he declines?
Also, what does it do to the American political system that you bake in all these lies, so it becomes OK to lie about a president's mental health?
Also also what will this do to American security? Biden has already overseen two new wars, I can imagine the Chinese might fancy their chances with Taiwan as the American elite is convulsed by the alleged insanity of the POTUS
On and on it goes. It's pretty basic. The POTUS should not be a mad person. Endex
Neither Biden nor Trump would defend Taiwan if invaded anyway, S Korea and Japan maybe but not Taiwan.
Taiwan's best defence is to get nukes. Plenty of old Soviet leaders and even old Chinese leaders were of course health wise as bad if worse than Biden and just put in public in stage managed settings. However the size of their militaries meant they weren't messed with anymore than the US would be whoever is the President.
Biden would at least supply Ukraine with the aid Trump wouldn't
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
If by some fluke the Conservatives got a majority tomorrow, then by Monday they'd be back at the in-fighting and where would that get us?
Don't be silly. Labour are going to get a massive majority.
This is now about whether you want to live in a one-party state for the next 5 years, or not.
'One-party state' Lol.
You have some good arguments but then you undermine them by making silly comments like that.
Nazi Germany was a one-party state; the Soviet Union was a one-party state; Franco's Spain was a one-party state.
Britain after this election will continue to be a multi-party state whatever the results.
We know SKS hates opposition and freezes out those who cross him/don't back him. We know he wants to abolish the Lords. We know he hates internal opposition. We know he'd love to wipe out the Tories.
Yes, he wants a one-party state.
You get to decide whether to give him a blank cheque or not.
The blank cheque the Tories got in 2019... how did that go again?
Can anyone explain exactly why Pensions are not subject to Inheritance Tax (other than obviously to spouse).
Seems to me that every penny should be subject to it. The purpose of tax free pension contributions is to fund your old age and stop you being dependent on the state. Not provide a bung to Tarquin and Melinda when you snuff it.
its the one advantage defined contribution schemes have over defined benefit ones that is you snuff it you can pass on the monies to your intended
Presumably an advantage that has only existed since Osborne ended the compulsory purchase of annuities with them?
yes for pensions in payment but woud have existed anyway for those pots where the owner died before taking one
This has absolutely nothing to do with political betting but can I just put on record that I HATE daylight savings. My favourite night is invariably the one they go back to GMT. And my least favourite is when we go to BST. It's part of this tyranny of early to rise makes an earthworm a cunt or whatever it is absolute scumbag normie twats promoting this pseudoscientific nonsense calendar adjustment which tortures us night owls even more during what should be the most productive months of the year. And being a night owl is correlated with intelligence, creativity, attractiveness, being a good gambler too (see Titanic Thompson) AND SUICIDE BECAUSE OF THIS HORRIFIC SOCIETAL BIAS
I would be quite happy to stick with GMT the whole year. Unfortunately I suspect the morons would insist on having BST the whole year istead whch would be vile.
Moron here. GMT equals waiting till evenings are getting really shit and then making it worse, and then rectifying the situation when things have improved so much anyway that nobody cares.
I would hate to have BST in the winter. I find it hard enough to get up in the halflight of a 7.30am January morning; the pitch dark it would be with BST would be horrible.
What would happen is that people would get up later instead, because they would hate getting up in the dark. So you'd have a gradual shift to people starting work at 10am so that they wouldn't have to get up so early, and then this would happen in the summer too (because changing the time that people start work to fit the seasons is too complicated), and so people would start asking to move the clocks forward another hour, to have lighter evenings, etc, etc, and eventually we'd have high noon at some silly time like 4pm, and the numbers on the clock would have lost all meaning and any connection to the reality of where the sun was in the sky.
Personally I can’t see how anyone can vote Tory after the past five years. That photo of HM in mourning while number 10 partied should be enough for any self respecting conservative to sit on their hands.
You'd like a one-party state with zero opposition then? Really?
What when the boot is on the other foot one day and you're wiped out?
Would you welcome that too?
What exactly have the Tories done to earn the right to be the Opposition? Cos that's what you're fighting for. Or should be.
Don't be ridiculous. There's an argument to eject from government.
Not to totally wipe them out.
That's recklessly irresponsible and borderline insane.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
It's the opposite of irrational. The Tories' record is so bad - quite possibly the worst in modern history - and for many people they have been pursuing policies whose results seem actively malicious towards them. They are utterly discredited in many eyes that means people want a different approach - much as that may pain you that your team and its ideas have completely failed people.
The entirely irrational thing would be voting Conservative if you feel failed by the government. Einstein and the definition of insanity and all that.
If you are around 35 and a middle earning professional (a group who used to be key swing voters), so have lived under the Tories all your adult life, you have found it more difficult to buy your own home, and earn less in real terms than your 2010 doppelganger did. Your local amenities are worse. You wait longer for any NHS treatment and are unlikely to be able to find an NHS dentist. Oh and if you wanted to get away, you now can't live, work or study easily in loads of places you could in 2010.
We could go on listing these things that have got worse - but on top of this the Tories give every impression that they don't like you, and don't value or even consider your views. Britain feels genuinely broken and what's worse you don't think the Conservatives have a plan to fix it and help you.
So of course it's entirely rational to vote Labour. Warnings about 'socialism' aren't scary because you haven't had the kind of tax cuts that might make you feel better off, nor has the economy grown at any reasonable clip over the past 14 years.
You see a crumbling, meaner, less effective state, low growth, and some of the downright toxicity that emanates from the Tory benches and of course you are more receptive to Labour's arguments about needing to take on a more activist role in fixing things, and raising taxes high earners or those with wealth tend to pay to do so.
You are fully aware that you don't agree with Labour on everything, and know that there might be a time when you're on the wrong end of a decision they make. But frankly, you decide they can't be worse than the other lot and they at least give the impression they like people like me and look like they listen now and again. It's not a difficult rational choice to make.
So in this case you do sound a bit like a Corbynite blaming the electorate for not seeing the Wonders of St. Jeremy, when of course for many rejecting him was also for entirely rational reasons based on the evidence of their eyes. So it is now with the Conservatives. As it was for Labour, the answer is to listen to people and why they are upset with you and prefer the other lot, not to think they are "irrational" for doing so.
No, it's irrational.
People voting Labour are idiots. End of.
Go to bed Casino, you're being an arse.
No, the idiots voting Labour are being an arse and the Herd going around liking their rants.
Take a step back. Prepare for a long haul and ask yourself what went wrong and what you need to do to be better. Never blame the voters.
The voters don't even know what they're voting for - I'm just trying to get them to wake up to it before it's too late.
They aren't listening. And I get silly patronising rants in response.
Starmer didn't seal the deal. He's losing voters hand over fist at the moment because he didn't make a pitch to voters that would convince them to stick with him if they faced doubts, or to vote Labour rather than Lib Dem or Green.
He's rather stumbling over the finish line now. He's presumably far enough ahead, but I think it will be a tense wait for the results from the first marginals.
He's played this incredibly smartly in my view. He has played up to his boring tag, he has done nothing to scare the horses or even the right wing media, he makes it all sound like more of the same but with more sensible people in charge. He started with a 20% lead and is finishing with one of around 16%. That is a result and a half. The Tories have frankly not laid a glove on him.
Yep. I think he has been tactically spot on in this election. He has kept manifesto hostages to fortune to a minimum, made sure his opponents have as little to work with as possible and just concentrated on geting elected with a decent majority so he can do what he thinks is necessary.
Pretty much flawless campaign really.
And the point is, ladies and gentleman, that boring, for lack of a better word, is good. Boring is right, boring works. Boring clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the Parliamentary spirit.
A flawless campaign, where he has lost at least 6pp during the course of a campaign? That flawless campaign?
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
If by some fluke the Conservatives got a majority tomorrow, then by Monday they'd be back at the in-fighting and where would that get us?
Don't be silly. Labour are going to get a massive majority.
This is now about whether you want to live in a one-party state for the next 5 years, or not.
'One-party state' Lol.
You have some good arguments but then you undermine them by making silly comments like that.
Nazi Germany was a one-party state; the Soviet Union was a one-party state; Franco's Spain was a one-party state.
Britain after this election will continue to be a multi-party state whatever the results.
We know SKS hates opposition and freezes out those who cross him/don't back him. We know he wants to abolish the Lords. We know he hates internal opposition. We know he'd love to wipe out the Tories.
Yes, he wants a one-party state.
You get to decide whether to give him a blank cheque or not.
The blank cheque the Tories got in 2019... how did that go again?
Ah, another bit of Whataboutery!
Don't any of you have an original or interesting argument? A braincell to rub between you?
Personally I can’t see how anyone can vote Tory after the past five years. That photo of HM in mourning while number 10 partied should be enough for any self respecting conservative to sit on their hands.
You'd like a one-party state with zero opposition then? Really?
What when the boot is on the other foot one day and you're wiped out?
Would you welcome that too?
What exactly have the Tories done to earn the right to be the Opposition? Cos that's what you're fighting for. Or should be.
Well the main opposition to the Conservatives since 2010 has been other Conservatives so they've had plenty of experience.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
It's the opposite of irrational. The Tories' record is so bad - quite possibly the worst in modern history - and for many people they have been pursuing policies whose results seem actively malicious towards them. They are utterly discredited in many eyes that means people want a different approach - much as that may pain you that your team and its ideas have completely failed people.
The entirely irrational thing would be voting Conservative if you feel failed by the government. Einstein and the definition of insanity and all that.
If you are around 35 and a middle earning professional (a group who used to be key swing voters), so have lived under the Tories all your adult life, you have found it more difficult to buy your own home, and earn less in real terms than your 2010 doppelganger did. Your local amenities are worse. You wait longer for any NHS treatment and are unlikely to be able to find an NHS dentist. Oh and if you wanted to get away, you now can't live, work or study easily in loads of places you could in 2010.
We could go on listing these things that have got worse - but on top of this the Tories give every impression that they don't like you, and don't value or even consider your views. Britain feels genuinely broken and what's worse you don't think the Conservatives have a plan to fix it and help you.
So of course it's entirely rational to vote Labour. Warnings about 'socialism' aren't scary because you haven't had the kind of tax cuts that might make you feel better off, nor has the economy grown at any reasonable clip over the past 14 years.
You see a crumbling, meaner, less effective state, low growth, and some of the downright toxicity that emanates from the Tory benches and of course you are more receptive to Labour's arguments about needing to take on a more activist role in fixing things, and raising taxes high earners or those with wealth tend to pay to do so.
You are fully aware that you don't agree with Labour on everything, and know that there might be a time when you're on the wrong end of a decision they make. But frankly, you decide they can't be worse than the other lot and they at least give the impression they like people like me and look like they listen now and again. It's not a difficult rational choice to make.
So in this case you do sound a bit like a Corbynite blaming the electorate for not seeing the Wonders of St. Jeremy, when of course for many rejecting him was also for entirely rational reasons based on the evidence of their eyes. So it is now with the Conservatives. As it was for Labour, the answer is to listen to people and why they are upset with you and prefer the other lot, not to think they are "irrational" for doing so.
No, it's irrational.
People voting Labour are idiots. End of.
Go to bed Casino, you're being an arse.
No, the idiots voting Labour are being an arse and the Herd going around liking their rants.
Take a step back. Prepare for a long haul and ask yourself what went wrong and what you need to do to be better. Never blame the voters.
The voters don't even know what they're voting for - I'm just trying to get them to wake up to it before it's too late.
They aren't listening. And I get silly patronising rants in response.
So I will be silly and patronising back.
I think they do. People aren't idiots. Folk who think they are, are.
Can anyone explain exactly why Pensions are not subject to Inheritance Tax (other than obviously to spouse).
Seems to me that every penny should be subject to it. The purpose of tax free pension contributions is to fund your old age and stop you being dependent on the state. Not provide a bung to Tarquin and Melinda when you snuff it.
I honestly thought that when the Pensioner and spouse died that was it and the pension was no more. I assumed that was how pension companies actually made money. The idea that pensions could be inherited down the generations is a new one to me.
In short: it's complicated. But in general:
- defined benefit pensions are *not* inherited - with defined contribution, it's more complicated. If (as most people do), the pool is converted to an annuity, then that is not inherited either. And yes, Richard, that is exactly how pension companies make their money. - if, on the other hand, the pension pot is not converted to an annuity and is instead drawn down in one way or another, then yes it is an inheritable asset.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
Most people vote for emotional reasons I dare say.
Yes I think so. However much people rationalise it, they generally vote with their heart. People either like the vibe of a party or not. The Tories have a horrible vibe this time round, though for a few they are in need of a pity-fuck.
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
It's the opposite of irrational. The Tories' record is so bad - quite possibly the worst in modern history - and for many people they have been pursuing policies whose results seem actively malicious towards them. They are utterly discredited in many eyes that means people want a different approach - much as that may pain you that your team and its ideas have completely failed people.
The entirely irrational thing would be voting Conservative if you feel failed by the government. Einstein and the definition of insanity and all that.
If you are around 35 and a middle earning professional (a group who used to be key swing voters), so have lived under the Tories all your adult life, you have found it more difficult to buy your own home, and earn less in real terms than your 2010 doppelganger did. Your local amenities are worse. You wait longer for any NHS treatment and are unlikely to be able to find an NHS dentist. Oh and if you wanted to get away, you now can't live, work or study easily in loads of places you could in 2010.
We could go on listing these things that have got worse - but on top of this the Tories give every impression that they don't like you, and don't value or even consider your views. Britain feels genuinely broken and what's worse you don't think the Conservatives have a plan to fix it and help you.
So of course it's entirely rational to vote Labour. Warnings about 'socialism' aren't scary because you haven't had the kind of tax cuts that might make you feel better off, nor has the economy grown at any reasonable clip over the past 14 years.
You see a crumbling, meaner, less effective state, low growth, and some of the downright toxicity that emanates from the Tory benches and of course you are more receptive to Labour's arguments about needing to take on a more activist role in fixing things, and raising taxes high earners or those with wealth tend to pay to do so.
You are fully aware that you don't agree with Labour on everything, and know that there might be a time when you're on the wrong end of a decision they make. But frankly, you decide they can't be worse than the other lot and they at least give the impression they like people like me and look like they listen now and again. It's not a difficult rational choice to make.
So in this case you do sound a bit like a Corbynite blaming the electorate for not seeing the Wonders of St. Jeremy, when of course for many rejecting him was also for entirely rational reasons based on the evidence of their eyes. So it is now with the Conservatives. As it was for Labour, the answer is to listen to people and why they are upset with you and prefer the other lot, not to think they are "irrational" for doing so.
No, it's irrational.
People voting Labour are idiots. End of.
I think people are voting Labour because it's buggins turn, i.e. things are bad and have been getting bad the last few years. So let's kick the lot in power.
But they are voting Labour just to kick the current lot for being shite, without any real hope that Labour will be any better. There has been no optimism in this election campaign. No promises of improvement. Because Labour don't have any answers either.
Given their lack of a coherent plan for economic growth, plus a potential weak spot on immigration, I can see them being as unpopular as the Tories, or even worse, in a couple of years time.
There aren't answers to a collapsing UK-born working age population. This isn't a problem that existed in 1997.
Assuming everyone lies to pollsters I have a fiver on NOM at 32. I'll enjoy the anticipation all day tomorrow - which is in itself a decent return for £5 - and if I win I'll post the evidence here and modestly accept any polite congratulations.
If I vote tomorrow I'll inscribe my X for Sir Jeremy Wright. He's an intelligent, one-nation Remainer, good constituency member, briefly in Theresa May's cabinet, and has done nothing to deserve defenestration. If the Tories have any future (big if, I know) they'll need people like him to hold the fort.
Recent MRPs have Labour running second in Kenilworth and Southam. I don't know where they get this idea. From my observation Labour haven't started campaigning yet while the LibDems are still shoving leaflets through every nook and cranny. If there is a drift (or even a stampede) away from the Tories in K&S it's more likely to favour LD, Reform or even Green than Sleepy Starmer.
Indeed, Sir Jeremy is a good chap. I knew him when I was chair of Warwick and Leamington CF and he was Association chairman, well before he became an MP let alone got to the Cabinet
I will be honest. I did have a slight wobble during the campaign.
I have been a Tory->Labour switcher since 2021. There are a myriad of reasons why I’ve deserted the Tories too extensive to really go into here.
My hope for a Labour government - which I still hope for - is it has the guts to really transform our economy and society, which really isn’t working for a lot of people right now. I am not an ideologue and although I have a wariness about the role the state plays, at times when the country is on the backfoot I believe proportionate and measured intervention is helpful. I want Labour to come up with answers for the problems we face. I want them to succeed, and I want them to be bold.
Hence the wobble. The ming vase strategy has not really enamoured me to them because I want to know the basic contours of a Labour government, and what it will do in the next 5 years. And I don’t feel this campaign has yielded any answers. And I will admit to being disappointed. I expected a little more - not a lot (I know how politics works) - but a bit more meat on the bones.
Anyway I’ve reconciled myself to everything and decided that I have to just take the punt. The only other thing I could really have done is spoiled my ballot paper (sorry LDs, you’re not really for me). I couldn’t vote Tory or Farage (shudder). So down to the polls I go tomorrow to give them their (likely) whacking great majority and I just hope they use it to really get some good and competent stuff done.
I completely get that and it seems an entirely reasonable position to me. I will vote Tory for tactical anti-SNP reasons but I don't think I have been so tempted to vote Labour in my adult life. Its not that they are offering much, its just the Tories are offering the square root of sod all.
Labour are offering socialism.
People are voting for them out of sheer anger at the Conservatives and a willingness to cut off their nose to spite their face.
I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's totally emotional and totally irrational. Everyone has their pet reasons (and they're mostly wholly contradictory) but the most disappointed (and angry) in future months will be those "one nation" Tories who think they voted for one of their own.
They're going to be sorely disappointed but it's no use me making any argument beforehand because I simply won't be listened to. That's fair enough but they've got to live with that decision, not me.
I'll be voting Conservative tomorrow.
If by some fluke the Conservatives got a majority tomorrow, then by Monday they'd be back at the in-fighting and where would that get us?
Don't be silly. Labour are going to get a massive majority.
This is now about whether you want to live in a one-party state for the next 5 years, or not.
We’ve been in a one-party state for the last 5 years. Where you complaining about the 2019 result?
So a depressing but perhaps utterly predictable update from my Surrey tory friend.
For weeks she has told me that for the first time in her life she wouldn’t vote for the Conservatives, that she would vote LibDem or Labour (edit or even Green), that the tory party had left her behind not the other way around, that she dislikes Rishi Sunak, that people like Badenoch and Braverman are thoroughly nasty etc. etc. etc.
And tonight? She has told me ...
… that she is voting Conservative
Why? Because her MP Jonathan Lord helped Seema Misa the sub post mistress who was imprisoned whilst pregnant whilst the LibDems’ Ed Davey didn’t listen.
To be honest, I resigned myself to her staying blue. I didn’t criticise her though I did gently point out that she could be voting for Badenoch or Braverman (whom she professes to loathe).
A certain, perhaps significant, number always return to the fold.
Cons 100-200 seats is very much in play in my opinion.
Can anyone explain exactly why Pensions are not subject to Inheritance Tax (other than obviously to spouse).
Seems to me that every penny should be subject to it. The purpose of tax free pension contributions is to fund your old age and stop you being dependent on the state. Not provide a bung to Tarquin and Melinda when you snuff it.
I honestly thought that when the Pensioner and spouse died that was it and the pension was no more. I assumed that was how pension companies actually made money. The idea that pensions could be inherited down the generations is a new one to me.
Doesn't that depend on whether the pension is defined benefit, an annuity or a defined contribution pension pot ?
Comments
https://x.com/hendopolis/status/1808609145752351147
I don't actually believe Labour will go full Lib Dem (for the policy is in their manifesto) and implement CGT at income tax levels without taper relief or indexation, because that would be a one way ticket to capital flight madsville, and, as I say, place the UK higher than any other country in Europe - indeed in the top 10% of countries in the world - with all the harm to the economy that would entail.
But Labour's silence is already causing extreme disquiet, and people are assuming the worst, 45% and even exit taxes. If you want full North Korean autarky, it's the way to go, but last time I checked, NK isn't the most prosperous nation. So I assume it won't be that.
Labour should just tell us what it actually is, because the harm to the economy from 'worst case scenario' planning is already happening.
What in Holy Hell else can you run it on?
Curating debate, in other words, not trying to silence it. Service to all. You'd miss it if I didn't bother and let everything go unchallenged.
I am not that impressed with Mason either, but head and shoulders better than his predecessor.
Of using too many paragraphs for no good reason.
And here's the thing.
It makes him look like he's writing for Buzzfeed in 2011.
Where do you reckon Workers will get in?
"Warning to Starmer from Britain not to take it for granted as Tories surprise by winning over 100 seats" etc etc.
I expect the silent tory voters to wake up tomorrow and try and stop the mythical supermajority.
People voting Labour are idiots. End of.
He types about 10 before I have managed to reply to the first one.
Its mildly annoying.
Seems to me that every penny should be subject to it. The purpose of tax free pension contributions is to fund your old age and stop you being dependent on the state. Not provide a bung to Tarquin and Melinda when you snuff it.
It's deeply disappointing to see so many pb'ers I respect fall into this trap. But hey ho.
I’m voting LibDem but looking forward to SKS having a decent majority. I’d like to hope he’ll do something positive with it but that may be too much to expect.
You could argue they would enact the 25th amendment? But how can we trust that they will, or even get a consensus for doing this? They haven't yet and there is strong evidence that his close aides have known for months there is a massive problem - see the CNN and Time magazine interviews, and so forth. Who will be running the country as he declines?
Also, what does it do to the American political system that you bake in all these lies, so it becomes OK to lie about a president's mental health?
Also also what will this do to American security? Biden has already overseen two new wars, I can imagine the Chinese might fancy their chances with Taiwan as the American elite is convulsed by the alleged insanity of the POTUS
On and on it goes. It's pretty basic. The POTUS should not be a mad person. Endex
Assuming everyone lies to pollsters I have a fiver on NOM at 32. I'll enjoy the anticipation all day tomorrow - which is in itself a decent return for £5 - and if I win I'll post the evidence here and modestly accept any polite congratulations.
If I vote tomorrow I'll inscribe my X for Sir Jeremy Wright. He's an intelligent, one-nation Remainer, good constituency member, briefly in Theresa May's cabinet, and has done nothing to deserve defenestration. If the Tories have any future (big if, I know) they'll need people like him to hold the fort.
Recent MRPs have Labour running second in Kenilworth and Southam. I don't know where they get this idea. From my observation Labour haven't started campaigning yet while the LibDems are still shoving leaflets through every nook and cranny. If there is a drift (or even a stampede) away from the Tories in K&S it's more likely to favour LD, Reform or even Green than Sleepy Starmer.
If they manage to poll anywhere below 30% it'll be a landmark - this has never happened to Con before at a GE - but they probably won't be as far under 30% as many of us would like.
What when the boot is on the other foot one day and you're wiped out?
Would you welcome that too?
You have some good arguments but then you undermine them by making silly comments like that.
Nazi Germany was a one-party state; the Soviet Union was a one-party state; Franco's Spain was a one-party state.
Britain after this election will continue to be a multi-party state whatever the results.
Labour had over 200 MPs in opposition and maintained a healthy opposition throughout.
Then there'd be a proper tax cutting budget in Labour's second year.
Yes, he wants a one-party state.
You get to decide whether to give him a blank cheque or not.
@scottygb
BBC have remixed the Arthur theme tune for the election, with an explanation by the iconic theme tune creator
@davidlowemusic2"
https://x.com/scottygb/status/1805282940173025548
We just don't like the last 14 years.
Could West Tyrone deliver the lowest Conservative vote share in the whole country? They got 0.4% there when they last stood in 2015.
They aren't listening. And I get silly patronising rants in response.
So I will be silly and patronising back.
No party has a right to exist. Not Labour. Not Tory. That is an earned privilege. If you forget that expect someone to replace you.
Whatever you think of him, he's not just a lucky general - he's made his own luck (obviously with some help from the Tories). What he's achieved is pretty remarkable, as we shall see tomorrow at 10pm.
Exactly what I'm talking about.
An interesting anecdote because we have heard, second hand, the thoughts of the Tory friend for years now. Presumably @Heathener is of the view said Tory friend won't mind. And kudos to Heathener for reporting a final bit of anecdata which absolutely fails to fit the narrative she has been telling these last few years.
But they are voting Labour just to kick the current lot for being shite, without any real hope that Labour will be any better. There has been no optimism in this election campaign. No promises of improvement. Because Labour don't have any answers either.
Given their lack of a coherent plan for economic growth, plus a potential weak spot on immigration, I can see them being as unpopular as the Tories, or even worse, in a couple of years time.
Cos that's what you're fighting for. Or should be.
Taiwan's best defence is to get nukes. Plenty of old Soviet leaders and even old Chinese leaders were of course health wise as bad if worse than Biden and just put in public in stage managed settings. However the size of their militaries meant they weren't messed with anymore than the US would be whoever is the President.
Biden would at least supply Ukraine with the aid Trump wouldn't
Not to totally wipe them out.
That's recklessly irresponsible and borderline insane.
My, how our standards have fallen.
Don't any of you have an original or interesting argument? A braincell to rub between you?
People aren't idiots.
Folk who think they are, are.
Survation final call still coming tonight it looks like
- defined benefit pensions are *not* inherited
- with defined contribution, it's more complicated. If (as most people do), the pool is converted to an annuity, then that is not inherited either. And yes, Richard, that is exactly how pension companies make their money.
- if, on the other hand, the pension pot is not converted to an annuity and is instead drawn down in one way or another, then yes it is an inheritable asset.