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People tell pollsters duff info – politicalbetting.com

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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    malcolmg said:

    BBC News - Ukraine calls them meat assaults: Russia's brutal plan to take ground
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c80xjne8ryxo

    Brutal cannon fodder approach from Russia.

    How long can they go on losing 1200+ a day
    35,000 casualties a month would be completely unsustainable. The fact that the situation is being sustained tells you that the 1,200/day figure is bullshit.
    No-one is expecting them to be able to sustain it indefinitely. That's the point. At the moment the figure is roughly equally to the estimated figure of new recruits that Russia is mobilising - so they are able to sustain that casualty rate for now.

    The Russians have gone to great lengths to find non-Russians to fight and die for them in Ukraine, which certainly helps in making the casualty rate sustainable.
    I think the point he is making is that taking casualty figures put out by the other side at face value is not necessarily wise if you intend to use the figures for serious debate rather than feelgood.

    We had friends in Spain during the Falklands war who were breathlessly told by the Spanish media that HMS invincible had been sunk three times in a week.
    Both sides are taking far too many casualties. History will judge Putin very badly for starting such a pointless slaughter.
    To be fair one casualty is too many.
    There’s an easy way to stop the slaughter, and that’s for the Russians to go back to Russia and leave Ukraine to the Ukranians.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    Heathener said:

    TORY FRIEND UPDATE!

    She’s awoken this morning to tell me she’s not now sure that she will vote Conservative!

    “Genuinely conflicted this morning” is her comment.

    I made no attempt to persuade her but we both agreed that it’s important to vote.

    I suspect there are an awful lot of tories like her. Perhaps this really will be a bad night for them.

    Oh, there's no doubt it will be a very bad night for them. It's just a question of whether they win 75 seats, 175 seats, or somewhere in between.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Dura_Ace said:

    DavidL said:


    The key point is going to be the US election in November and I think the Russians are hanging on and hoping that changes the strategic position of the US. The new government in the UK and the EU should be ramping up production far more than they are just in case they need to fill that gap.

    The election doesn't matter as much any more. Even if the mortal remains of Biden manage to get re-elected he won't be getting another Ukraine loot drop through Congress in its current form.
    I think for Biden to win given his current personal popularity likely implies the Dems get The House back? The GOP probably still get the Senate but not by huge margin and the Senate GOP are a lot less Putinist than The House.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    malcolmg said:

    BBC News - Ukraine calls them meat assaults: Russia's brutal plan to take ground
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c80xjne8ryxo

    Brutal cannon fodder approach from Russia.

    How long can they go on losing 1200+ a day
    35,000 casualties a month would be completely unsustainable. The fact that the situation is being sustained tells you that the 1,200/day figure is bullshit.
    No-one is expecting them to be able to sustain it indefinitely. That's the point. At the moment the figure is roughly equally to the estimated figure of new recruits that Russia is mobilising - so they are able to sustain that casualty rate for now.

    The Russians have gone to great lengths to find non-Russians to fight and die for them in Ukraine, which certainly helps in making the casualty rate sustainable.
    I think the point he is making is that taking casualty figures put out by the other side at face value is not necessarily wise if you intend to use the figures for serious debate rather than feelgood.

    We had friends in Spain during the Falklands war who were breathlessly told by the Spanish media that HMS invincible had been sunk three times in a week.
    Both sides are taking far too many casualties. History will judge Putin very badly for starting such a pointless slaughter.
    To be fair one casualty is too many.
    There’s an easy way to stop the slaughter, and that’s for the Russians to go back to Russia and leave Ukraine to the Ukranians.
    About as likely as the DUP supporting union with Dublin.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,043
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    From the NY times

    Sounds like the end could be near.


    It media drip drip drip, nudge nudge nudge.....
    NY Times is all in on bringing him down. The vibe I'm seeing all over the place is that he'll go and Harris will be the nominee with no contested convention.

    One big question is whether he leaves now and Harris becomes president. Great for her because she'd get incumbency and the chance to define herself much better. But the big problem is that she would need to get her new VP confirmed by both houses. No way the MAGA wing wouldn't try and cause mayhem. But stiil I think the Ds may go for it - the house wasn't able to impeach Biden because there are a handful of sane Republicans running in purple districts who need to run on being centerist.
    I don't think the VP thing is a problem, she doesn't need one day-to-day and the GOP will make themselves look bad refusing to vote on them.
    Yeah like looking bad has ever (well, since the Tea Party days) discouraged the GOP from acting with partisan malice.
    Question - if President Harris has no VP, do Dems lose control of the Senate?

    Though it seems the last time Harris used her tiebreak was in December last year:
    https://www.senate.gov/legislative/TieVotes.htm
    so maybe it doesn't matter that much

    Still think Whitmer would stand a better chance of beating Trump.
    Good question. Yes the Senate would be 50-50 with no VP, so the Dems would need to pick off a Republican or two to get things passed.

    Whitmer is IMHO the best of the suggested replacement candidates.
    Whitmer is probably the best of the replacement candidates, as she would ensure the Democrats carried Michigan comfortably. She's sensible and coherent and centrist.

    I would prefer to see (from a straight enjoying the contest perspective) Buttigieg or Ossoff, though, simply because the contrast between Trump and them would be so great.

    I think Newsom is dreadful.
    It's highly unlikely that the Democrats would cast aside Harris for Newsom, who'd very likely do worse in the election.

    And the idea being floated of a 'mini primary' ahead of the convention also seems somewhat far fetched.

    I think if Biden goes then the odds are around 3 or 4/1 in favour of Harris.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    Andy_JS said:

    Heathener said:

    TORY FRIEND UPDATE!

    She’s awoken this morning to tell me she’s not now sure that she will vote Conservative!

    “Genuinely conflicted this morning” is her comment.

    I made no attempt to persuade her but we both agreed that it’s important to vote.

    I suspect there are an awful lot of tories like her. Perhaps this really will be a bad night for them.

    Oh, there's no doubt it will be a very bad night for them. It's just a question of whether they win 75 seats, 175 seats, or somewhere in between.
    What has Paddy Ashdown got to do with it.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Rishi has voted. The news says so
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,911

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    malcolmg said:

    BBC News - Ukraine calls them meat assaults: Russia's brutal plan to take ground
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c80xjne8ryxo

    Brutal cannon fodder approach from Russia.

    How long can they go on losing 1200+ a day
    35,000 casualties a month would be completely unsustainable. The fact that the situation is being sustained tells you that the 1,200/day figure is bullshit.
    No-one is expecting them to be able to sustain it indefinitely. That's the point. At the moment the figure is roughly equally to the estimated figure of new recruits that Russia is mobilising - so they are able to sustain that casualty rate for now.

    The Russians have gone to great lengths to find non-Russians to fight and die for them in Ukraine, which certainly helps in making the casualty rate sustainable.
    I think the point he is making is that taking casualty figures put out by the other side at face value is not necessarily wise if you intend to use the figures for serious debate rather than feelgood.

    We had friends in Spain during the Falklands war who were breathlessly told by the Spanish media that HMS invincible had been sunk three times in a week.
    Both sides are taking far too many casualties. History will judge Putin very badly for starting such a pointless slaughter.
    To be fair one casualty is too many.
    I'd make an exception for Putin
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    rcs1000 said:

    OK. I'm off to bed.

    Tomorrow is a public holiday in the US. I plan on getting up early, getting on my bike, and successfully getting to the top of Kenter Canyon (which is a brutal Category 2/3 climb on Strava). It does involve passing the VP's California residence on my way up, so I will wave as I pass.

    Then barbeque with the family (I have a big steak I'm looking to cook), before a quick check of the exit poll at 2pm (10pm). At about 4pm, I will settle in by my computer with a bottle of wine to enjoy the show.

    There may be some mild betting activity.

    Thanks for all you do to keep the oils of this site running Robert, especially from the other side of the water even if it is a global site.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,076
    Voting done.

    And it will likely be the first time I vote for the winning MP.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    .
    Heathener said:

    TORY FRIEND UPDATE!

    She’s awoken this morning to tell me she’s not now sure that she will vote Conservative!

    “Genuinely conflicted this morning” is her comment.

    I made no attempt to persuade her but we both agreed that it’s important to vote.

    I suspect there are an awful lot of tories like her. Perhaps this really will be a bad night for them.

    The most important thing is that she votes. I've said this to undecideds at every election - VOTE. If you don't vote then you have no voice, so you can't really moan about the government / council because you abstained.

    And again, this country clung on by its fingertips for the right to vote. Women battled and protested and died for the right to vote. Voting matters.

    I suspect @Heathener that your friend like so many Tories will simply stay at home. I'd rather she came out and voted positively for someone, but a -1 on the Tory tally still has its value to all of us who want to see them destroyed today.
  • lockhimuplockhimup Posts: 59
    Heathener said:

    maxh said:

    J.
    Also notable that noone asked me for ID.

    Wow!! Really?

    I’m heartened to hear that.
    Either everyone or no one should be asked for ID.
    Leaving it to the discretion of the polling clerk is absolutely outrageous
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,546

    Dura_Ace said:

    malcolmg said:

    BBC News - Ukraine calls them meat assaults: Russia's brutal plan to take ground
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c80xjne8ryxo

    Brutal cannon fodder approach from Russia.

    How long can they go on losing 1200+ a day
    35,000 casualties a month would be completely unsustainable. The fact that the situation is being sustained tells you that the 1,200/day figure is bullshit.
    No-one is expecting them to be able to sustain it indefinitely. That's the point. At the moment the figure is roughly equally to the estimated figure of new recruits that Russia is mobilising - so they are able to sustain that casualty rate for now.

    The Russians have gone to great lengths to find non-Russians to fight and die for them in Ukraine, which certainly helps in making the casualty rate sustainable.
    I think the point he is making is that taking casualty figures put out by the other side at face value is not necessarily wise if you intend to use the figures for serious debate rather than feelgood.

    We had friends in Spain during the Falklands war who were breathlessly told by the Spanish media that HMS invincible had been sunk three times in a week.
    A significant issue is that AFAIAA Russia has not updated its casualty figures since 2022.

    If you want a summation, then Wiki collates the data.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

    An issue is also what is classed as 'Russian' troops. Do you count the LPR/DNR troops in the Russian total? Wagner-style soldiers? How about foreign mercenaries? The North Korean troops if/when they arrive?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    "Is Liz Truss Going To LOSE Her Seat - I Went To Her Constituency To Find Out
    Owen Jones"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQZDVswkhQI
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    This is the first time I've woken on polling day and not known for certain where my X is going
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,615

    NEW THREAD

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,812
    THis thread has had the sole vote for it eaten by a miniature dachshund.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Anyway off to RHS Wisley. Beautiful morning for it.

    I voted Labour by post down in Newton Abbot last week.

    p.s. @Farooq lol. I feel a bit queasy about trying to badger someone, especially a friend, over how to vote. End of the day each person needs to make up their own mind. So you won’t find me saying VOTE LABOUR Oh ...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    This is the first time I've woken on polling day and not known for certain where my X is going

    You're in the company of about one in fifteen folks, polls suggest
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,043
    Heathener said:

    maxh said:

    J.
    Also notable that noone asked me for ID.

    Wow!! Really?

    I’m heartened to hear that.
    The lady at the door asked us if we had ID, but no one asked to see it.
    I was second in the queue at 6.55; as I left at 6.02 there were around seven or eight waiting.

    I doubt the numbers voting first thing mean a lot. It's how many still queuing in the evening.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,043

    .

    Heathener said:

    TORY FRIEND UPDATE!

    She’s awoken this morning to tell me she’s not now sure that she will vote Conservative!

    “Genuinely conflicted this morning” is her comment.

    I made no attempt to persuade her but we both agreed that it’s important to vote.

    I suspect there are an awful lot of tories like her. Perhaps this really will be a bad night for them.

    The most important thing is that she votes. I've said this to undecideds at every election - VOTE. If you don't vote then you have no voice, so you can't really moan about the government / council because you abstained.

    And again, this country clung on by its fingertips for the right to vote. Women battled and protested and died for the right to vote. Voting matters.

    I suspect @Heathener that your friend like so many Tories will simply stay at home. I'd rather she came out and voted positively for someone, but a -1 on the Tory tally still has its value to all of us who want to see them destroyed today.
    Vote early, vote @RochdalePioneers says I.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    maxh said:

    J.
    Also notable that noone asked me for ID.

    Wow!! Really?

    I’m heartened to hear that.
    The lady at the door asked us if we had ID, but no one asked to see it.
    I was second in the queue at 6.55; as I left at 6.02 there were around seven or eight waiting.

    I doubt the numbers voting first thing mean a lot. It's how many still queuing in the evening.
    Well, it's supposed to be compulsory that you do show ID, so I'm not sure what was going on there.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,508

    DavidL said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 37% (-2)
    CON: 24% (+1)
    RFM: 16% (+1)
    LDM: 11% (-1)
    GRN: 6% (=)

    Via @NorstatUKPolls, 1-3 Jul. Changes w/ 24-26 Jun.

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1808598424776028556

    Starmer didn't seal the deal. He's losing voters hand over fist at the moment because he didn't make a pitch to voters that would convince them to stick with him if they faced doubts, or to vote Labour rather than Lib Dem or Green.

    He's rather stumbling over the finish line now. He's presumably far enough ahead, but I think it will be a tense wait for the results from the first marginals.
    He's played this incredibly smartly in my view. He has played up to his boring tag, he has done nothing to scare the horses or even the right wing media, he makes it all sound like more of the same but with more sensible people in charge. He started with a 20% lead and is finishing with one of around 16%. That is a result and a half. The Tories have frankly not laid a glove on him.
    Yep. I think he has been tactically spot on in this election. He has kept manifesto hostages to fortune to a minimum, made sure his opponents have as little to work with as possible and just concentrated on geting elected with a decent majority so he can do what he thinks is necessary.

    Pretty much flawless campaign really.

    And the point is, ladies and gentleman, that boring, for lack of a better word, is good. Boring is right, boring works. Boring clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the Parliamentary spirit.
    A flawless campaign, where he has lost at least 6pp during the course of a campaign? That flawless campaign?

    My, how our standards have fallen.
    A campaign that he has apparently won and by a large margin.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397

    Rishi has voted. The news says so

    Does it say who for?
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    So been to vote, no polling station pooch which was a disappointment. It’s the longest I’ve ever taken over a ballot paper, whilst I was 90% sure of my vote I wasn’t absolutely certain. It was the first time in 25 years that in a single candidate election I didn’t vote Tory.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Heathener said:

    TORY FRIEND UPDATE!

    She’s awoken this morning to tell me she’s not now sure that she will vote Conservative!

    “Genuinely conflicted this morning” is her comment.

    I made no attempt to persuade her but we both agreed that it’s important to vote.

    I suspect there are an awful lot of tories like her. Perhaps this really will be a bad night for them.

    Quick send her that picture of the Queen alone in the chapel and remind her the Tory Government partied the night before.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    edited July 4

    VOTE CONSERVATIVE


    Vote Count Binface - because that hand dryer really does need to be relocated.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,043
    Dura_Ace said:

    DavidL said:


    The key point is going to be the US election in November and I think the Russians are hanging on and hoping that changes the strategic position of the US. The new government in the UK and the EU should be ramping up production far more than they are just in case they need to fill that gap.

    The election doesn't matter as much any more. Even if the mortal remains of Biden manage to get re-elected he won't be getting another Ukraine loot drop through Congress in its current form.
    Congress won't be on its current form - there's an election if you recall.
    Quite likely the new House will be Democratic; the Senate less so.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,508
    Carnyx said:

    THis thread has had the sole vote for it eaten by a miniature dachshund.

    Called Colin?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    ToryJim said:

    So been to vote, no polling station pooch which was a disappointment. It’s the longest I’ve ever taken over a ballot paper, whilst I was 90% sure of my vote I wasn’t absolutely certain. It was the first time in 25 years that in a single candidate election I didn’t vote Tory.

    The moniker ExToryJim is available, I believe?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,352
    Ratters said:

    Voting done.

    And it will likely be the first time I vote for the winning MP.

    With Labour set to win a large majority on a low share of the vote, I would guess that a much lower proportion than normal will vote for the winning candidate.

    Must. Calculate.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    It's slightly disconcerting that there's a significant difference between the number of seats allocated by YouGov, based on its own final election poll for 'The Times' and the number of seats allocated by the time-honoured ElectoralCalculus which specialises in producing their own seat calculations, based, we have to presume, on identical information.

    In this instance, YouGov calculates that Labour will win 431 seats compred with EC's 458 seats, a difference of 27 seats.
    In terms of Tory seats,YouGov comes up with a total of 102 seats, whereas EC calculates the Blue Team's tally as being 75 seats.
    Again an equal and opposite difference of 27 seats, which is sort of reassuring insofar as it goes.
    Obviously the two calculations of seat numbers are based on different statistical models and therefore some difference in their totals was only to be expected.
    However a difference of 27 seats does seem quite significant, especially if one doubles it to 54 seats in arriving at the impact on the overall majority involved.

    Thank goodness no money is involved here as a result of such a discrepancy ... Oh wait!
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,806
    Heathener said:

    TORY FRIEND UPDATE!

    She’s awoken this morning to tell me she’s not now sure that she will vote Conservative!

    “Genuinely conflicted this morning” is her comment.

    I made no attempt to persuade her but we both agreed that it’s important to vote.

    I suspect there are an awful lot of tories like her. Perhaps this really will be a bad night for them.

    What a soap opera this is!
  • MustaphaMondeoMustaphaMondeo Posts: 181
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    All the final polls tonight have Labour below the 43% Blair got in 1997 but heading for a bigger majority than then due to the split on the right between Tory and Reform. LDs also below 1997 levels but again may get more seats than then for the same reason, looks like FPTP will really boost the left and hit the right for once tomorrow.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2024_United_Kingdom_general_election

    The MRPs at least suggest the Tories will be over the pyschologically important 100 seats mark though and still clearly the main opposition to a near certain Starmer government

    It’s your crooked voting system; lap it up.
    FPTP is not crooked, it is just not, to my mind, the best option.
    No option is great but a top up system would probably give the conservatives another 100 seats.

    And it’s not about you it’s about us.

    An aside
    I’ve always wondered if we could weight votes. The predicted 80 Tories sharing 21% of the 650 votes. So each member vote counts as 136/80 of the total.

    It keeps the constituency link and the proportional weight.

    I don't really follow your second sentence. I am one of us as well, I don't know what you mean.
    Sorry about that. I was thinking about the numbers. Not the conversation. Whoops.

    I was being rhetorical, addressing the political class. Which was a bit bonkers as I’m council leadership, so I’m probably one of them rather than one of us.

    I’ll have another go at putting PR into the current system. Back of an envelope workings.

    21% of 650 MPs would be about 136.
    The proportion represented. Say 80MPs.

    I’m suggesting a Tory MP has a vote worth 136/80
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046
    Scott_xP said:

    Good Morning all


    That would work better without the speech bubbles.
This discussion has been closed.