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This would be the result of the night – politicalbetting.com

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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Leon said:

    OK I'm going to have a bash at predicting the Worst Possible But Reasonable Tory outcome

    Sadly, my bet with @Sandpit is surely lost. They will win at least one seat. But what is a reasonable worst expectation?

    I reckon 30-60 seats, and they are behind Reform in votes, and behind the LDs in seats

    It doesn't take much movement, on the day, for that to happen

    Sadly for you, but a Champagne-worthy moment for me!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    FF43 said:

    The result I really really want is the Conservatives win just one seat, and it's Richmond and Northallerton.

    Sunak surely would have to stay on as leader of the Conservatives, just as he's packing his bags for California?

    Funnier still is to win Clacton and that be the only seat.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,894
    viewcode said:

    Result of the night will be Jeremy Corbyn winning Islington North and if our man on the spot is right about four official canvass visits, Labour is worried about it too.

    I don't see how a MRP can predict an individual instead of a party, without doing a local poll
    MRPs weight demographic and historical factors of the constituency but do not consider peculiar local factors, such as a beloved former leader standing.

    Local factors are MRPs' universal get-out clause because, after the fact, it will always be possible to find some local quirk about the council or hospital or cycle lanes to explain away a failed prediction.
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 435
    edited July 3
    lol

    Through gritted fucking teeth!
  • ChristopherChristopher Posts: 91

    The MIC figures look pretty much what I’m expecting right now.

    For all the sound and fury, I don’t think we’re going Tory sub-100. But we’re certainly going to a seismic and shocking result for the Tories.

    Actually ordinary people who arent tuned in to the campaign will be utterly shocked by the tories going below 150 seats.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Waitrose has run out of popcorn, just saying.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Waitrose has run out of popcorn, just saying.

    Have they got any poshcorn?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,894
    Tactical voting was in vogue when the election was called but all seems to have gone quiet on that front, presumably as the Mrs S has already been round to measure the curtains. A lack of tactical voting might save a few Conservatives in 3-way marginals.

    (And it has been suggested Mrs Starmer would rather live in their current house than move into the Downing Street flat.)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    Heathener said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Heathener said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 38% (=)
    CON: 21% (+3)
    RFM: 18% (-3)
    LDM: 10% (-1)
    GRN: 7% (=)
    SNP: 3% (+1)

    Via @WStoneInsight, 1-2 Jul.
    Changes w/ 26-27 Jun.

    Whitestone Insight final poll

    Three takeaways:

    1. There's a late swing from Reform and Don't Know > Conservatives happening, IMO. But as Con are so far behind it's too little too late to save them from catastrophe.
    Hi, you may well be right but that poll doesn’t show that. If you want to make a claim about the slight swing in that one it’s from Con to Reform:

    Lab n/c
    Con -3
    Reform +3
    No, Con are +3 and Ref -3 on last Whitestone Insight poll?
    Lol forgive me. Right idea wrong + -

    In my defence I’ve just awoken from a heavy slumber as I’m trying to get my body clock into rhythm for tomorrow night :)
    Get a job, typical Labour layabout
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    edited July 3
    Will the safest seat after the GE for the Tories still be South Holland and the Deepings ?

    Here's the safest Tory seat from a few models

    East Grinstead and Uckfield - EC
    Rutland and Stamford - YG
    East Surrey - NS
    North Dorset - IPSOS
    East Grinstead and Uckfield - Savanta
    Maldon - Focaldata
    Hinckley and Bosworth - MiC
    Beaconsfield - Focaldata
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    The Sun backs Labour

    “By dragging his party back to the centre ground of British politics for the first time since Tony Blair was in NO10, Sir Keir has won the right to take charge"

    Called it in January"

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/11909/why-it-won-t-be-the-sun-wot-won-it-in-2024-politicalbetting-com#latest
    Just a bit of friendly advice.

    Be a bit more subtle and self effacing when you remind PBers you were right.
    It happens so rarely, I have to max out on it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    The MIC figures look pretty much what I’m expecting right now.

    For all the sound and fury, I don’t think we’re going Tory sub-100. But we’re certainly going to a seismic and shocking result for the Tories.

    Actually ordinary people who arent tuned in to the campaign will be utterly shocked by the tories going below 150 seats.
    Quite right

    My extended family is quite political, by normal standards. We talk politics a fair bit, and it is reasonably well-informed

    Yet almost none of them really have a grasp of what is potentially about to happen

    (I'm not insulting them, they have busy lives, kids, and normal jobs)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Pulpstar said:

    Will the safest seat after the GE for the Tories still be South Holland and the Deepings ?

    Here's the safest Tory seat from a few models

    East Grinstead and Uckfield - EC
    Rutland and Stamford - YG
    East Surrey
    North Dorset
    East Grinstead and Uckfield
    Maldon
    Hinckley and Bosworth
    Beaconsfield

    North Dorset looks flakey for the Tories to me, because... reasons. I think the LDs could pinch this one.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,580
    As the Lib Dems in South Cambs move to a four-day week, Greece moves to a six-day week:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czd9g7yzn4jo
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Here we go

    BREAKING

    President Biden told a key ally that his campaign may be unsalvageable if he can’t convince the public he’s up for the job.


    NYT
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Map of MoreInCommon's MRP is available here.

    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/general-election-2024/mrp-3-july/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    Pulpstar said:

    Will the safest seat after the GE for the Tories still be South Holland and the Deepings ?

    Here's the safest Tory seat from a few models

    East Grinstead and Uckfield - EC
    Rutland and Stamford - YG
    East Surrey - NS
    North Dorset - IPSOS
    East Grinstead and Uckfield - Savanta
    Maldon - Focaldata
    Hinckley and Bosworth - MiC
    Beaconsfield - Focaldata

    Weird, because if you scan other MRPs a fair few of those are forecast to be lost, or at least at risk
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Biden will quit before the end of July, possibly much sooner than that

    It's gonna be Kamala Harris
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Leon said:

    OK I'm going to have a bash at predicting the Worst Possible But Reasonable Tory outcome

    Sadly, my bet with @Sandpit is surely lost. They will win at least one seat. But what is a reasonable worst expectation?

    I reckon 30-60 seats, and they are behind Reform in votes, and behind the LDs in seats

    It doesn't take much movement, on the day, for that to happen

    "@BritainElects

    The chances of the Conservatives ending up with 167 seats are now just as likely as the party finishing with 17."

    https://x.com/BritainElects/status/1808497924847866115
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Scott_xP said:

    Waitrose has run out of popcorn, just saying.

    Have they got any poshcorn?
    It's the only sort they do.
  • llefllef Posts: 301
    scanning the More in Common seat projections, the most remarkable seat I can see is Frome and East Somerset, where the LDs are projected to win with 22% of the vote!

    Conservative: 21%
    Labour: 22%
    Liberal Democrat: 22%
    Green Party: 15%
    Reform UK: 18%
    SNP: 0%
    Plaid Cymru: 0%
    Other: 2%
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    Andy_JS said:

    Lab 430
    Con 126
    LD 52
    SNP 16
    Ref 2
    PC 2
    Grn 1

    Lab 39%
    Con 23%
    LD 14%
    Ref 13%
    Grn 6%
    SNP 2%
    PC 1%
    More in Common appears the outlier so far today with only 13% for Reform. Other pollsters are going 16% - 18%. This disparity really moves the numbers.
    I think this the key MiC tweet is this one, 99 seats are a toss up:

    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/1808504648501755954?t=mtFpM-eKtc_K0ctC7xV2dA&s=19

    If the Tories lose all of the seats that we project lean/too close to call they would be left with as few as 78 seats, if they win them all their total would sit at 177, barely above their 1997 result. In short we do not consider it so unlikely the Tories end up sub 100 seats.

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Pulpstar said:

    Sun backing Labour will surely lose them votes in Liverpool. Could the majority in Knowsley go sub 30,000 ?!?

    Liverpool voters won’t know. They don’t read the Sun.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    edited July 3
    Blyth & Ashington:

    Average UKIP vote was around 20% across Blyth Valley and Wansbeck in 2015, on the national UKIP vote of 12.6%.

    So, assuming that UKIP and Reform map similarly, a 16% Reform vote would map to around a 23-27% vote share in Blyth & Ashington this time out.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Leon said:

    Biden will quit before the end of July, possibly much sooner than that

    It's gonna be Kamala Harris

    I think she could win the election quite easily, I don't know why Democrats are so afraid of he losing to Trump.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993

    I will be opening the Chablis if Sunak loses... One must celebrate appropriately :)

    At thet time of night/morning, I'll probably have a sandwich...
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    Leon said:

    If you KNOW the Tories are doomed, so voting for them is pointless, how does that effect voters psychologically?

    Let's say you're normally a Tory voter, in a seat the Tories probably cannot win. Why bother voting Tory? You may as well go for Reform to send a message

    Reform could stack up a vast number of votes in places where neither they or the Tories have a chance

    One might ague that this is the case in virtually each and every election where there is a clear leader and an underdog - but in the main G.E.s don't work that way, the majority clearly vote based on their personal convictions. not out of spite, revenge or whatever.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377

    TL:DR We agree with the Tories on pretty much everything and Reform on everything else, but Labour is going to win and we don’t like backing losers.



    https://x.com/robertshrimsley/status/1808506290970206560

    Yes, it's absolutely hilarious - it doesn't even approach being a lukewarm endorsement of Labour. It screams: "We hate Labour but they're going to win, sadly".

    My favourite bit:
    The Tories allowed a Work From Home civil service "blob", activist quangos and human rights lawyers and judges to run rings around them, thwarting sensible policies. Illegal and legal immigration have not been kept under control.

    The full thing is well worth a read if you want a good laugh:
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/28935096/its-time-for-a-change/
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    Leon said:

    Biden will quit before the end of July, possibly much sooner than that

    It's gonna be Kamala Harris

    Hope so - and what a debate it will be if Trump doesn't shy off!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited July 3
    Pro_Rata said:

    Blyth & Ashington:

    Average UKIP vote was around 20% across Blyth Valley and Wansbeck in 2015, on the national UKIP vote of 12.6%.

    So, assuming that UKIP and Reform map similarly, a 16% Reform vote would map to around a 23-27% vote share in Blyth this time out.

    Funny if we don't get the first result of the night from this seat because there's a recount between Lab and Ref. (Not my prediction btw).
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,076
    I see Biden out to 3.5 for democrat nomination.

    Appreciate we've got other things to think about here but it's a big shift.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    Pro_Rata said:

    Blyth & Ashington:

    Average UKIP vote was around 20% across Blyth Valley and Ashington in 2015, on the national UKIP vote of 12.6%.

    So, assuming that UKIP and Reform map similarly, a 16% Reform vote would map to around a 23-27% vote share in Blyth this time out.

    Blyth might be the first seat to declare, so the first two hours will be talk about how RefUk is going to exceed expectations, and then they will fade as the votes elsewhere come in... Worth knowing from a betting perspective
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    Leon said:

    If you KNOW the Tories are doomed, so voting for them is pointless, how does that effect voters psychologically?

    Let's say you're normally a Tory voter, in a seat the Tories probably cannot win. Why bother voting Tory? You may as well go for Reform to send a message

    Reform could stack up a vast number of votes in places where neither they or the Tories have a chance

    Yup. The psychology of voting is absolutely a factor.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,894
    Leon said:

    Here we go

    BREAKING

    President Biden told a key ally that his campaign may be unsalvageable if he can’t convince the public he’s up for the job.


    NYT

    You've just copy/pasted Biden's name into an old Liz Truss headline.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Our final poll of the campaign points to a 20-point Labour lead:

    • Con 21% (+1)
    • Lab 41% (+1)
    • Reform 17% (n/c)
    • LD 11% (-2)
    • Green 7% (+1)
    • SNP 2% (-1)

    Fieldwork: 1st – 3rd July. Changes from 26 - 28 June.


    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1808514736985686041

    SNP, oh dear, what a shame....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Biden will quit before the end of July, possibly much sooner than that

    It's gonna be Kamala Harris

    I think she could win the election quite easily, I don't know why Democrats are so afraid of he losing to Trump.
    Yes, very possible

    She has major downsides, she's not that bright, and she annoys a lot of people. She's obviously over-promoted

    Against that she has two enormous advantages: she is not Donald Trump, and she is not Joe Biden

    She will also get a feelgood vote for being a black woman

    I think she's got a pretty good chance of beating Trump, whereas Demented Joe has ~0% chance

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    sarissa said:

    I will be opening the Chablis if Sunak loses... One must celebrate appropriately :)

    At thet time of night/morning, I'll probably have a sandwich...
    Me too. Bottle of Nyetimber for Friday evening to celebrate once it's all over.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    No longer would we refer to the Portillo moment. Henceforth and in perpetuity it would be known as the Sunak moment.

    Were you up for Sunak? :)

    It would also be fitting if all those former Tory leaders who were responsible in one way or another for the destruction of their party - Sunak, Truss and of course IDS for bringing in the stupid membership voting rules - were themselves forced to share the pain of so many of their, sometimes decent, backbench MPs.

    I think we need to decide if a 'Portillo moment' is:

    a ) the defeat of a prominent politician, or
    b ) the *unexpected* defeat of a prominent politician.

    So in the case of (b) e.g. Jeremy Hunt losing is not a Portillo Moment. Sunak losing would be.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,793
    Leon said:

    If you KNOW the Tories are doomed, so voting for them is pointless, how does that effect voters psychologically?

    Let's say you're normally a Tory voter, in a seat the Tories probably cannot win. Why bother voting Tory? You may as well go for Reform to send a message

    Reform could stack up a vast number of votes in places where neither they or the Tories have a chance

    People who might vote Reform:
    - Disgruntled ex-Tories
    - Those who never voted before voting No in the Referendum
    - Those who only ever voted Labour but are in fact quite right wing and only voted Labour through tribal antipathy to Tories

    These three are the core vote, to which I would add:

    - Contrarians (the none-of-the-aboves – who might previously have voted Lib Dem, or Green, or anything)
    - People who are at best ambivalent about Reform or its policies or Nigel Farage but who see a vote for Reform as a vote against immigration
    - People who are at best ambivalent about Reform or its policies or Nigel Farage but who see a vote for Reform as a vote against woke
    - Edgelords

    None of whom are to be underestimated. Lastly, there are:

    - Genuine racists i.e. BNP types
    - Enthusiasts for Putin

    Neither of whom I think are statistically significant because I don’t believe either of them are statistically significant in the population at large.

    But collectively, that’s quite a lot of people who COULD fall into the Reform camp, and probably the most unpredictable section of the electorate. No wonder the Reform polling is all over the place.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,627
    The question is whether Harris will become President this year. Can Biden credibly continue until January?
  • All this proves is that Blair didn't need to court Murdoch in 1997.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited July 3
    sarissa said:

    I will be opening the Chablis if Sunak loses... One must celebrate appropriately :)

    At thet time of night/morning, I'll probably have a sandwich...
    For some inexplicable reason I’ve bought some scotch eggs. I never eat scotch eggs! Just fancy them on election night.

    Diet coke to help counter migraines as I’ll be on keyboard and tv screen. I never drink diet coke.

    Also some Comté cheese with pitta and Ryvitas, olives, peppermint tea, special k bars

    No alcohol because I don’t touch the stuff
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    Farooq said:

    I've had a look at this latest More in Common MRP as they are kind enough to have a nice hovery map where you can easily see any seat.

    It is MUCH worse for the Tories than it looks. In seat after seat after seat you can see where only a bit of tactical voting pushes the Tory out. MRP is trying to catch this but I suspect is missing quite a lot of what is actually happening.

    In my own seat I note that I will retain my deposit (good start) and will finish last. MRP shows 20% of people voting for a Labour candidate who isn't on the ballot. I am reasonably confident of taking much of that and at least beating Reform and notlabour. DRoss? Sunk, and frankly that's been obvious from the start. Today's FB piece by David Duguid really won't have helped...

    Point of order, I've got my ballot right in front of me and it says "BROWN, Andy, Scottish Labour".
    I doubt most voters know he's suspended so it's enough that some of the waves from way down south will lap even these shores.

    What's far more important is that they've done nothing locally.

    I don't think you're coming last, FWIW. I sincerely hope you finish above the Tories, then I'll be happy with the election result whether or not you win.

    Now go get all those waverers off their sofas and down to the school before 10pm tomorrow!
    I've had enough people talk to me about him to know that most people know he's gone. Local news, national news, Facebook - its out there as it was in Rochdale. As you say, they don't exist locally anyway.

    Andy has had the best campaign of any of us! He's a keen walker, and was out posting about walking trips before the scandal, and even more so after the scandal.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @OpiniumResearch

    🚨 Our final poll of the campaign points to a 20-point Labour lead:

    • Con 21% (+1)
    • Lab 41% (+1)
    • Reform 17% (n/c)
    • LD 11% (-2)
    • Green 7% (+1)
    • SNP 2% (-1)

    Fieldwork: 1st – 3rd July. Changes from 26 - 28 June.

    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1808514736985686041
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Leon said:

    A lot of talk on here about Reform under-performing on the day, and that might well happen

    But what if they out-perform? If a lot of young people (who seem Reform-minded) decide Feck it, I will vote.... that could be calamitous for the Tories (on top of their catastrophe, which is already baked in)

    Or the night could start with Reform taking seats in the North East causing Labour to enter a state of total panic.
    I think you could be half right. Reform will stack up decent amounts of votes in safe Labour seats without actually winning any of them. Labour will flatline in some of the early declarations I expect.

    However it will not be a cause for panic because the flip side is that the Labour votes will be piling up in the marginals that will decide the election.

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Biden will quit before the end of July, possibly much sooner than that

    It's gonna be Kamala Harris

    I think she could win the election quite easily, I don't know why Democrats are so afraid of he losing to Trump.
    Arguably the vice president is there for precisely this situation.

    Harris will see a brutal pile-on. I hope she has plenty of armour.
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 100
    edited July 3

    The MIC figures look pretty much what I’m expecting right now.

    For all the sound and fury, I don’t think we’re going Tory sub-100. But we’re certainly going to a seismic and shocking result for the Tories.

    Actually ordinary people who arent tuned in to the campaign will be utterly shocked by the tories going below 150 seats.
    “Ordinary people” won’t know the difference between the tories having 150 or 250 seats so won’t be “shocked”.

    its a meaningless number that makes no difference to their lives. It doesn’t change who is pm. All they will hear is talking heads saying how each party did it broad strokes

    Do you ever talk to normal people ?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    edited July 3
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Biden will quit before the end of July, possibly much sooner than that

    It's gonna be Kamala Harris

    I think she could win the election quite easily, I don't know why Democrats are so afraid of he losing to Trump.
    Yes, very possible

    She has major downsides, she's not that bright, and she annoys a lot of people. She's obviously over-promoted

    Against that she has two enormous advantages: she is not Donald Trump, and she is not Joe Biden

    She will also get a feelgood vote for being a black woman

    I think she's got a pretty good chance of beating Trump, whereas Demented Joe has ~0% chance

    You know I'm not sure about the negatives - I think she's just done a relatively quiet vice-presidential job, and that the role has at least somewhat constrained her in living up to what some may have expected. What I've seen of her in recent interviews has been very good.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Leon said:

    Biden will quit before the end of July, possibly much sooner than that

    It's gonna be Kamala Harris

    The Tories losing and Biden quitting? Oh what an excellent week this could be.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    The question is whether Harris will become President this year. Can Biden credibly continue until January?

    Surely he has to retire this summer so she becomes president, thus giving her more stature in the eyes of voters
  • ChristopherChristopher Posts: 91

    Our final poll of the campaign points to a 20-point Labour lead:

    • Con 21% (+1)
    • Lab 41% (+1)
    • Reform 17% (n/c)
    • LD 11% (-2)
    • Green 7% (+1)
    • SNP 2% (-1)

    Fieldwork: 1st – 3rd July. Changes from 26 - 28 June.


    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1808514736985686041

    SNP, oh dear, what a shame....

    Seems to be herding towards a 21-23% conservative vote share. Totally disastrous for them. In 1997 the final polls were pretty bang on for the tories.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @RedfieldWilton

    Do British voters think the Conservative Party made the right or wrong decision in asking Boris Johnson to resign? (26-27 June)

    Right decision 51% (-2)
    Wrong decision 31% (–)

    Changes +/- 22 March 2023

    https://x.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1808516790349103482
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    edited July 3

    I've had a look at this latest More in Common MRP as they are kind enough to have a nice hovery map where you can easily see any seat.

    It is MUCH worse for the Tories than it looks. In seat after seat after seat you can see where only a bit of tactical voting pushes the Tory out. MRP is trying to catch this but I suspect is missing quite a lot of what is actually happening.

    In my own seat I note that I will retain my deposit (good start) and will finish last. MRP shows 20% of people voting for a Labour candidate who isn't on the ballot. I am reasonably confident of taking much of that and at least beating Reform and notlabour. DRoss? Sunk, and frankly that's been obvious from the start. Today's FB piece by David Duguid really won't have helped...

    FB piece? Linky please pretty please?

    Edit: found it OK. Had forgotten it's not twatter. Sorry.

    https://www.facebook.com/DavidDuguidMP/?locale=en_GB
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    malcolmg said:

    I will be opening the Chablis if Sunak loses... One must celebrate appropriately :)

    I will open a bottle of Californian Red.
    I will not find out till next day so will be cup of tea
    PS Fairlie, I do hope Wishart , Nicholson and assorted other no users get rogered and confirm SNP is run by Duds, Swinney was useless 20 years ago and is worse now.
    Losing central belt seats but retaining more rural seats should help. I suppose the idiot Blackman will hang on in Aberdeen N, though. Of course, any defeated Sturgeonites will be promoted to the top of the Holyrood lists in 2026.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Speaking of the sun heres the latest from Kelvin Mackenzie.

    The Guardian says Labour candidates and activists are reporting that in the North West and Midlands “shy” Reformers are doing well with some forecasting less than 2,000 votes between the parties.
    Reform is said to be making good progress in two Oldham seats and at Leigh, Makerfield and Atherton. Bolsover, Sherwood Forest and Barnsley are heading Reform’s way.
    Labour is saying privately they expect to lose some seats to Reform.
    Why this is a surprise is beyond me. The North , with both Brexit and the Red Wall polling, has always been ahead of the curve.
    Labour have always embraced the minorities but have taken for granted ( or in Thornberry’s case despised) the white working class so I expect Reform to have a few surprises up there sleeve.
    2:52 PM · Jul 3, 2024
    ·
    5,406
    Views

    https://x.com/kelvmackenzie/status/1808499072363368760

    Hmm I suspect there’s a bit of expectation management going on there. Given there is a bit of polling evidence that Reform have been fading at the final corner I doubt Labour will have too great a problem with them.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Leon said:

    Here we go

    BREAKING

    President Biden told a key ally that his campaign may be unsalvageable if he can’t convince the public he’s up for the job.


    NYT

    "The president, who the ally emphasized is still deeply in the fight for re-election, understands that his next few appearances heading into the holiday weekend — including an interview scheduled for Friday with George Stephanopoulos of ABC News and campaign stops in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin — must go well."

    Hate to say it but the ABC News interview is the most important upcoming political event this week. I hope George Stephanopoulos is a combative interviewer
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 580

    Gut feeling is the Reform thing is hype driven by the media and they will be lucky to get more than 2 seats. Let's not forget they are coming from a low base and this is first past the post and Labour are enjoying the shiny new alternative mantle, righty or wrongly.

    They may rack up a lot of votes but inefficiently, with quite a few second and third places.

    That's going on nothing but gut instinct from watching elections since 2005.

    The Brexit referendum was special. This feels like a typical GE with mass indifference and a typical turnout, i.e. in the 60s.

    In More in Common's MRP - which is much more optimistic on the Tories than other ones - they have Reform winning 2 seats but projected to be second place in 67 seats.

    That's the thing about FPTP - you don't need much vote share to start squeaking through randomly in 4 way marginals.

  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Pulpstar said:

    Will the safest seat after the GE for the Tories still be South Holland and the Deepings ?

    Here's the safest Tory seat from a few models

    East Grinstead and Uckfield - EC
    Rutland and Stamford - YG
    East Surrey - NS
    North Dorset - IPSOS
    East Grinstead and Uckfield - Savanta
    Maldon - Focaldata
    Hinckley and Bosworth - MiC
    Beaconsfield - Focaldata

    SH&TD I would expect returns a decent Reform figure.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813

    All this proves is that Blair didn't need to court Murdoch in 1997.

    Completely different circumstances. The print media was much stronger then, and the electoral landscape different.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    Leon said:

    Biden will quit before the end of July, possibly much sooner than that

    It's gonna be Kamala Harris

    The expert on LBC reckoned it would be Harris plus the moderate PA governor versus Whitmer and some guy from Georgia.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,353

    Our final poll of the campaign points to a 20-point Labour lead:

    • Con 21% (+1)
    • Lab 41% (+1)
    • Reform 17% (n/c)
    • LD 11% (-2)
    • Green 7% (+1)
    • SNP 2% (-1)

    Fieldwork: 1st – 3rd July. Changes from 26 - 28 June.


    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1808514736985686041

    SNP, oh dear, what a shame....

    Seems to be herding towards a 21-23% conservative vote share. Totally disastrous for them. In 1997 the final polls were pretty bang on for the tories.
    Even with a lot of tactical voting though, it's hard to see the Lib Dems on half that finishing ahead of them in terms of seats.

    But, still a terrible result.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,793
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Biden will quit before the end of July, possibly much sooner than that

    It's gonna be Kamala Harris

    I think she could win the election quite easily, I don't know why Democrats are so afraid of he losing to Trump.
    Yes, very possible

    She has major downsides, she's not that bright, and she annoys a lot of people. She's obviously over-promoted

    Against that she has two enormous advantages: she is not Donald Trump, and she is not Joe Biden

    She will also get a feelgood vote for being a black woman

    I think she's got a pretty good chance of beating Trump, whereas Demented Joe has ~0% chance

    Someone said recently about Kamala: They thought she would be a female Obama. But she turned out to be a black Hillary.
    I hope they're wrong.

    She is however neither senile nor mad. So really we ought to be seizing that with both hands.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    Waitrose has run out of popcorn, just saying.

    Even the hand popped artisan popcorn?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,894
    Ghedebrav said:

    No longer would we refer to the Portillo moment. Henceforth and in perpetuity it would be known as the Sunak moment.

    Were you up for Sunak? :)

    It would also be fitting if all those former Tory leaders who were responsible in one way or another for the destruction of their party - Sunak, Truss and of course IDS for bringing in the stupid membership voting rules - were themselves forced to share the pain of so many of their, sometimes decent, backbench MPs.

    I think we need to decide if a 'Portillo moment' is:

    a ) the defeat of a prominent politician, or
    b ) the *unexpected* defeat of a prominent politician.

    So in the case of (b) e.g. Jeremy Hunt losing is not a Portillo Moment. Sunak losing would be.
    Or the unexpected defeat of a disliked, prominent politician, and I'm not sure Hunt or Sunak are really disliked. Gove was but is not standing, Suella would qualify, and maybe JRM if he counts as an unexpected defeat.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    FF43 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Biden will quit before the end of July, possibly much sooner than that

    It's gonna be Kamala Harris

    I think she could win the election quite easily, I don't know why Democrats are so afraid of he losing to Trump.
    Arguably the vice president is there for precisely this situation.

    Harris will see a brutal pile-on. I hope she has plenty of armour.
    She will but tbh I think it will galvanise the anti-Trump vote even more.
  • llefllef Posts: 301
    More in common has Plaid coming 4th in Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen).
    I know Carmarthen (won by Plaid in 2019) has had bits of Tory Pembrokeshire tacked on, but I still find that idea unrealistic....

    Conservative: 17%
    Labour: 40%
    Liberal Democrat: 5%
    Green Party: 3%
    Reform UK: 22%
    SNP: 0%
    Plaid Cymru: 13%
    Other: 0%
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    All this proves is that Blair didn't need to court Murdoch in 1997.

    The dead tree press had far more power back then.

    This election has been notable (to me) for the lack of impact the railings of the Mail has had. 2024 is the social media election.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    MRP Poll | Labour Majority of 238

    🌹 LAB: 444 (+244)
    🌳 CON: 108 (-264)
    🔶 LDM: 57 (+49)
    🎗️ SNP: 15 (-33)
    ➡️ RFM: 2 (+2)
    🌼 PC: 2 (=)
    🌍 GRN: 1 (=)

    Via @focaldataHQ, 10 Jun - 1 Jul.
    Changes w/ GE2019 Notionals.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @nickeardleybbc

    The prime minister is helping stuff envelopes with leaflets to be delivered tomorrow in Hampshire.

    There is no mention of Rishi Sunak on any of the leaflets.

    https://x.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1808517488914702344
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 100

    Ghedebrav said:

    No longer would we refer to the Portillo moment. Henceforth and in perpetuity it would be known as the Sunak moment.

    Were you up for Sunak? :)

    It would also be fitting if all those former Tory leaders who were responsible in one way or another for the destruction of their party - Sunak, Truss and of course IDS for bringing in the stupid membership voting rules - were themselves forced to share the pain of so many of their, sometimes decent, backbench MPs.

    I think we need to decide if a 'Portillo moment' is:

    a ) the defeat of a prominent politician, or
    b ) the *unexpected* defeat of a prominent politician.

    So in the case of (b) e.g. Jeremy Hunt losing is not a Portillo Moment. Sunak losing would be.
    Or the unexpected defeat of a disliked, prominent politician, and I'm not sure Hunt or Sunak are really disliked. Gove was but is not standing, Suella would qualify, and maybe JRM if he counts as an unexpected defeat.
    Seriously ?

  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Biden will quit before the end of July, possibly much sooner than that

    It's gonna be Kamala Harris

    I think she could win the election quite easily, I don't know why Democrats are so afraid of he losing to Trump.
    Yes, very possible

    She has major downsides, she's not that bright, and she annoys a lot of people. She's obviously over-promoted

    Against that she has two enormous advantages: she is not Donald Trump, and she is not Joe Biden

    She will also get a feelgood vote for being a black woman

    I think she's got a pretty good chance of beating Trump, whereas Demented Joe has ~0% chance

    If she wins then the Indian diaspora will have produced children who have become PM of UK and Pres of the US and PM of Ireland. Not sure it means anything but quite pleasing anyway.
  • ChristopherChristopher Posts: 91
    Leon said:

    The question is whether Harris will become President this year. Can Biden credibly continue until January?

    Surely he has to retire this summer so she becomes president, thus giving her more stature in the eyes of voters
    But is Harris competent enough to be President. yes I know Joe Biden etc but prior to his health problems you couldnt say realistically Biden wasnt competent enough to be President.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    Our final poll of the campaign points to a 20-point Labour lead:

    • Con 21% (+1)
    • Lab 41% (+1)
    • Reform 17% (n/c)
    • LD 11% (-2)
    • Green 7% (+1)
    • SNP 2% (-1)

    Fieldwork: 1st – 3rd July. Changes from 26 - 28 June.


    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1808514736985686041

    SNP, oh dear, what a shame....

    Nice to see someone still saying a 20 point margin. I hope they are correct!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Ghedebrav said:

    No longer would we refer to the Portillo moment. Henceforth and in perpetuity it would be known as the Sunak moment.

    Were you up for Sunak? :)

    It would also be fitting if all those former Tory leaders who were responsible in one way or another for the destruction of their party - Sunak, Truss and of course IDS for bringing in the stupid membership voting rules - were themselves forced to share the pain of so many of their, sometimes decent, backbench MPs.

    I think we need to decide if a 'Portillo moment' is:

    a ) the defeat of a prominent politician, or
    b ) the *unexpected* defeat of a prominent politician.

    So in the case of (b) e.g. Jeremy Hunt losing is not a Portillo Moment. Sunak losing would be.
    The other thing that's overlooked is that Portillo was the heir apparent to Thatcher - and Sunak has no obvious heirs apparent - not least of all because there will be a significant cull of potential candidates and the Tories are out of office for two terms at least.

    In some ways it might be kinder for Sunak "to go down with the ship" - his reputation is in tatters what ever happens, and that would let him get on with his life.....the perils of having a politically inexperienced technocrat as PM.......oh dear.....
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 580
    Leon said:

    Biden will quit before the end of July, possibly much sooner than that

    It's gonna be Kamala Harris

    Biden won’t resign as President IMO.

    If Harris becomes President now, the Republican house won’t confirm a VP as replacement - because should anything happen to Harris, Republican Speaker Mike Johnson would then be acting President.

    They will let Biden serve out the rest of his term.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Ghedebrav said:

    No longer would we refer to the Portillo moment. Henceforth and in perpetuity it would be known as the Sunak moment.

    Were you up for Sunak? :)

    It would also be fitting if all those former Tory leaders who were responsible in one way or another for the destruction of their party - Sunak, Truss and of course IDS for bringing in the stupid membership voting rules - were themselves forced to share the pain of so many of their, sometimes decent, backbench MPs.

    I think we need to decide if a 'Portillo moment' is:

    a ) the defeat of a prominent politician, or
    b ) the *unexpected* defeat of a prominent politician.

    So in the case of (b) e.g. Jeremy Hunt losing is not a Portillo Moment. Sunak losing would be.
    Unexpected has to be in there I think. There are also the implications. Sunak is on his way out and probably won't even be an MP in five years, even if he wins his seat this time. Portillo was one of the main contenders to be next Con leader.

    Still a big moment if Sunak loses, but not on the scale of Portillo. Ed Balls losing his seat in 2015 is closer, probably.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860

    All this proves is that Blair didn't need to court Murdoch in 1997.

    Back then, I bought a paper daily (if not one of his). Now it must be a year since I have bought one at all.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    Leon said:

    Here we go

    BREAKING

    President Biden told a key ally that his campaign may be unsalvageable if he can’t convince the public he’s up for the job.


    NYT

    "The president, who the ally emphasized is still deeply in the fight for re-election, understands that his next few appearances heading into the holiday weekend — including an interview scheduled for Friday with George Stephanopoulos of ABC News and campaign stops in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin — must go well."

    Hate to say it but the ABC News interview is the most important upcoming political event this week. I hope George Stephanopoulos is a combative interviewer
    The headline implies Biden has a much lower chance of running than the main article does.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Biden will quit before the end of July, possibly much sooner than that

    It's gonna be Kamala Harris

    I think she could win the election quite easily, I don't know why Democrats are so afraid of he losing to Trump.
    Yes, very possible

    She has major downsides, she's not that bright, and she annoys a lot of people. She's obviously over-promoted

    Against that she has two enormous advantages: she is not Donald Trump, and she is not Joe Biden

    She will also get a feelgood vote for being a black woman

    I think she's got a pretty good chance of beating Trump, whereas Demented Joe has ~0% chance

    Someone said recently about Kamala: They thought she would be a female Obama. But she turned out to be a black Hillary.
    I hope they're wrong.

    She is however neither senile nor mad. So really we ought to be seizing that with both hands.
    Yes indeed. She can get good advisors, she'll do OK, she won't casually sacrifice Ukraine and she won't accidentally bomb Indonesia because she's demented

    Let it be noted that is, also, democracy belatedly doing it job. Biden was exposed in a public debate he could not quite control (tho his team tried) and he was found very very wanting. Now the public and media pressure is forcing an insane POTUS to quit, as he should

    That's how it is meant to work, that's what makes democracies superior, in the end (for all their many grievous flaws)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Does Sunak eat his sandwich with a knife and fork?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    IanB2 said:

    Dog’s in a cone due to an eye infection, so he’s a bit grumpy. Hearing about all the Tories due to lose their seats tomorrow night isn’t cheering him up, sadly.

    Your dog sounds like a flake.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Selebian said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    No longer would we refer to the Portillo moment. Henceforth and in perpetuity it would be known as the Sunak moment.

    Were you up for Sunak? :)

    It would also be fitting if all those former Tory leaders who were responsible in one way or another for the destruction of their party - Sunak, Truss and of course IDS for bringing in the stupid membership voting rules - were themselves forced to share the pain of so many of their, sometimes decent, backbench MPs.

    I think we need to decide if a 'Portillo moment' is:

    a ) the defeat of a prominent politician, or
    b ) the *unexpected* defeat of a prominent politician.

    So in the case of (b) e.g. Jeremy Hunt losing is not a Portillo Moment. Sunak losing would be.
    Unexpected has to be in there I think. There are also the implications. Sunak is on his way out and probably won't even be an MP in five years, even if he wins his seat this time. Portillo was one of the main contenders to be next Con leader.

    Still a big moment if Sunak loses, but not on the scale of Portillo. Ed Balls losing his seat in 2015 is closer, probably.
    Laura Pidcock.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    kinabalu said:

    Big softy that I am I don't really want Rishi to lose his seat.

    Nor me. Saddest moment of the night will be Thangham, particularly as Carla Denyer is a real lightweight.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,627
    Leon said:

    The question is whether Harris will become President this year. Can Biden credibly continue until January?

    Surely he has to retire this summer so she becomes president, thus giving her more stature in the eyes of voters
    There was some talk that she could do the upcoming NATO summit in place of Biden.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    Leon said:

    Here we go

    BREAKING

    President Biden told a key ally that his campaign may be unsalvageable if he can’t convince the public he’s up for the job.


    NYT

    You've just copy/pasted Biden's name into an old Liz Truss headline.
    Do American lettuces last longer? I assume they’re genetically modified.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Pulpstar said:

    Will the safest seat after the GE for the Tories still be South Holland and the Deepings ?

    Here's the safest Tory seat from a few models

    East Grinstead and Uckfield - EC
    Rutland and Stamford - YG
    East Surrey - NS
    North Dorset - IPSOS
    East Grinstead and Uckfield - Savanta
    Maldon - Focaldata
    Hinckley and Bosworth - MiC
    Beaconsfield - Focaldata

    No RefUK candidate in East Grinstead probably helps them there.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Ghedebrav said:

    No longer would we refer to the Portillo moment. Henceforth and in perpetuity it would be known as the Sunak moment.

    Were you up for Sunak? :)

    It would also be fitting if all those former Tory leaders who were responsible in one way or another for the destruction of their party - Sunak, Truss and of course IDS for bringing in the stupid membership voting rules - were themselves forced to share the pain of so many of their, sometimes decent, backbench MPs.

    I think we need to decide if a 'Portillo moment' is:

    a ) the defeat of a prominent politician, or
    b ) the *unexpected* defeat of a prominent politician.

    So in the case of (b) e.g. Jeremy Hunt losing is not a Portillo Moment. Sunak losing would be.
    Or the unexpected defeat of a disliked, prominent politician, and I'm not sure Hunt or Sunak are really disliked. Gove was but is not standing, Suella would qualify, and maybe JRM if he counts as an unexpected defeat.
    Was Portillo *that* disliked? Genuine question; I was 16 at the time, relatively politically aware but not in the weeds like we are here.

    Suella would 100% qualify. As would Truss and I think JRM too.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Biden will quit before the end of July, possibly much sooner than that

    It's gonna be Kamala Harris

    The expert on LBC reckoned it would be Harris plus the moderate PA governor versus Whitmer and some guy from Georgia.
    "Some guy from Georgia”

    Lol

    Jon Ossoff you mean? Very good political operator. Would probably demolish Donald Trump.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Biden will quit before the end of July, possibly much sooner than that

    It's gonna be Kamala Harris

    I think she could win the election quite easily, I don't know why Democrats are so afraid of he losing to Trump.
    Yes, very possible

    She has major downsides, she's not that bright, and she annoys a lot of people. She's obviously over-promoted

    Against that she has two enormous advantages: she is not Donald Trump, and she is not Joe Biden

    She will also get a feelgood vote for being a black woman

    I think she's got a pretty good chance of beating Trump, whereas Demented Joe has ~0% chance

    Someone said recently about Kamala: They thought she would be a female Obama. But she turned out to be a black Hillary.
    I hope they're wrong.

    She is however neither senile nor mad. So really we ought to be seizing that with both hands.
    You’ll end up in court with Trump, with thoughts like that.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    Eras ending all over the place this week:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy79q7ej49yo

    "Captain Sir Tom Moore's daughter Hannah Ingram-Moore and her husband Colin have been disqualified from being charity trustees by the Charity Commission."
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Here we go

    BREAKING

    President Biden told a key ally that his campaign may be unsalvageable if he can’t convince the public he’s up for the job.


    NYT

    "The president, who the ally emphasized is still deeply in the fight for re-election, understands that his next few appearances heading into the holiday weekend — including an interview scheduled for Friday with George Stephanopoulos of ABC News and campaign stops in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin — must go well."

    Hate to say it but the ABC News interview is the most important upcoming political event this week. I hope George Stephanopoulos is a combative interviewer
    IIRC George S is quite aggressive, which is what Biden needs, as you say

    The worst outcome now is a patball interview where Biden can somehow pretend to be just-about-OK and then the hideous farce continues, and even worsens
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    Andy_JS said:

    Lab 430
    Con 126
    LD 52
    SNP 16
    Ref 2
    PC 2
    Grn 1

    Lab 39%
    Con 23%
    LD 14%
    Ref 13%
    Grn 6%
    SNP 2%
    PC 1%
    More in Common appears the outlier so far today with only 13% for Reform. Other pollsters are going 16% - 18%. This disparity really moves the numbers.
    Most of the MRP results are within the same ballpark imo, even if they don't look like that at first glance.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    Scott_xP said:

    @OpiniumResearch

    🚨 Our final poll of the campaign points to a 20-point Labour lead:

    • Con 21% (+1)
    • Lab 41% (+1)
    • Reform 17% (n/c)
    • LD 11% (-2)
    • Green 7% (+1)
    • SNP 2% (-1)

    Fieldwork: 1st – 3rd July. Changes from 26 - 28 June.

    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1808514736985686041

    For a long time, Opinium tended to have the smallest Labour leads because of its methodology. On 24 May, after the GE was called, they had Labour on a 14pp lead. So this lead of 20 looks pretty significant to me.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,894
    Heathener said:

    All this proves is that Blair didn't need to court Murdoch in 1997.

    The dead tree press had far more power back then.

    This election has been notable (to me) for the lack of impact the railings of the Mail has had. 2024 is the social media election.
    The Tory press, led by the Telegraph, has been all over the shop this election, trying any and every attack line, often contradictory, so that it comes across as panic and hysteria.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    ToryJim said:

    Speaking of the sun heres the latest from Kelvin Mackenzie.

    The Guardian says Labour candidates and activists are reporting that in the North West and Midlands “shy” Reformers are doing well with some forecasting less than 2,000 votes between the parties.
    Reform is said to be making good progress in two Oldham seats and at Leigh, Makerfield and Atherton. Bolsover, Sherwood Forest and Barnsley are heading Reform’s way.
    Labour is saying privately they expect to lose some seats to Reform.
    Why this is a surprise is beyond me. The North , with both Brexit and the Red Wall polling, has always been ahead of the curve.
    Labour have always embraced the minorities but have taken for granted ( or in Thornberry’s case despised) the white working class so I expect Reform to have a few surprises up there sleeve.
    2:52 PM · Jul 3, 2024
    ·
    5,406
    Views

    https://x.com/kelvmackenzie/status/1808499072363368760

    Hmm I suspect there’s a bit of expectation management going on there. Given there is a bit of polling evidence that Reform have been fading at the final corner I doubt Labour will have too great a problem with them.
    Labour will be feeding out stories about how various places are ‘close’ for sure. Get the media to do some knocking up for them.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Biden will quit before the end of July, possibly much sooner than that

    It's gonna be Kamala Harris

    The expert on LBC reckoned it would be Harris plus the moderate PA governor versus Whitmer and some guy from Georgia.
    "Some guy from Georgia”

    Lol

    Jon Ossoff you mean? Very good political operator. Would probably demolish Donald Trump.
    Jimmy Carter?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Focaldata impled % 40 to 23, very much in line with the avgs
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Biden will quit before the end of July, possibly much sooner than that

    It's gonna be Kamala Harris

    I think she could win the election quite easily, I don't know why Democrats are so afraid of he losing to Trump.
    Yes, very possible

    She has major downsides, she's not that bright, and she annoys a lot of people. She's obviously over-promoted

    Against that she has two enormous advantages: she is not Donald Trump, and she is not Joe Biden

    She will also get a feelgood vote for being a black woman

    I think she's got a pretty good chance of beating Trump, whereas Demented Joe has ~0% chance

    Someone said recently about Kamala: They thought she would be a female Obama. But she turned out to be a black Hillary.
    I hope they're wrong.

    She is however neither senile nor mad. So really we ought to be seizing that with both hands.
    Kamala is precisely like Biden 2020.

    Acceptable under the circumstances.
This discussion has been closed.