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And From The Other Side of the Pond… – politicalbetting.com

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 7

    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1799040426764358137

    Tense.

    Do watch in full

    Must be one of the worst statements I have ever seen.

    I don't know, there are plenty to choose from. I remember the Gordon Brown one after the whole smear-gate, I take full responsibility so I fired the person responsible and I knew nothing about it even though I sit right by two of the people involved.
  • Clutch_BromptonClutch_Brompton Posts: 737
    DavidL said:

    boulay said:

    ToryJim said:

    boulay said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    12m
    Rishi Sunak says the issue shouldn’t be politicised and we should focus on the veterans. There was supposed to be a campaign pause for D-Day. He broke it, left the veterans, and came home for a political interview.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Um, he filmed an interview that wasn’t to be aired during D-day events and so clearly didn’t do any campaigning.

    The only reason people are aware he did an interview for the campaign is because of people wetting their pants about him missing part of the D-day commemorations. So he respected the campaigning pause - it was others who turned it into part of the campaign.
    That’s not how people will see it. He didn’t have time in his diary for veterans of D Day but could find the time to do a campaign interview. And his excuse that he did the British events but not the non-British one is just staggering. The liberation of Nazi occupied Europe was a joint endeavour, the commemoration of it should be too. Any PM who doesn’t get that instinctively deserves everything he gets.
    He didn’t have time for veterans except the one he pushed along in his wheelchair, the ones he met, addressed and quoted and praised at the ceremony he attended.

    Now I know I’m one of probably three people on this site who didn’t stop everything yesterday and devote the day to watching D-day, and I apologise for that, but I’m guessing the veterans cared more about the king being there, about actually being there themselves and getting the thanks from the ordinary people.

    I can’t imagine any of them knew who was actually attending the main ceremony. So let’s get someone to ask them - after all, it’s about them and their comrades. If they really are offended then Sunak needs to step down, if they say they don’t care, it’s not about politicians then we move on. Fair enough?


    I am particularly busy at the moment but I regret to say that I did not see a single minute of the anniversary commemorations either. No doubt the fault is mine.

    I get more than a little tired of those expressing outrage on someone else's behalf, someone they haven't even had the courtesy to ask. It is wearing.

    OTOH I find it very difficult to see what Sunak could possibly do that could make him look more Prime Ministerial or like a leader of substance than being there and playing a prominent part. It is politically stupid and inept, as so many of his decisions are. Morally? Bah!
    Just the point that it would be rather difficult to ask most of those being commemorated their opinion since they are long gone. Of course their families and their nation live on and so we are being asked instead.

    Boulay - What you did his not important. Why? Because you are not the PM, you do not represent the country. Mr Sunak is and he failed - yet again.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    TOPPING said:

    Eabhal said:

    Ok, the pipe major in the town I grew up in has just completely lost it a series of deeply offensive Facebook posts, all related to D-gate.

    CUT THROUGH

    "pipe major in the town..."

    This is a betting site so my market: 18-22 stone.
    Extraordinary. Keeping an eye out for your tips from now on.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,077
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s high time PB woke gestapo tried to get me banned again. It’s been at least three days

    Nah, just accept you erred (we all do) and move on.
    No. Come get me
    No, you're not worth it.

    I'm not surprised at your racism, its not the first and won't be your last.

    I see your point but you’re a stupid fat dickless loser in a Barratt home new build in Warrington. So we also have to take that into consideration, surely, as it means you are SO low in the pecking order of life you are desperate for the tiniest scintilla of perceived superiority, moral or intellectual, even when it is clearly bogus, as here

    YOU’LL FIND ME AT THE MOZART CAFE
    I guess you had a pretty disturbed night, or maybe you hit the horilka a bit hard this morning?

    If you want booze that makes you a bit less fighty, I´d suggest nyalivka, but avoid Piana Vyshnya, which is Benylin without the subtle aftertaste.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1799040426764358137

    Tense.

    Do watch in full

    Must be one of the worst statements I have ever seen.

    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1799040426764358137

    Tense.

    Do watch in full

    Must be one of the worst statements I have ever seen.

    Warning - if cringe is your kink, put some towels down before you watch.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728
    Leon said:

    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL

    Few things have made me angrier recently. It encapsulates everything wrong with 'radical' left-wing activism. Internally incoherent and incredibly stupid, hectoring, destroying the very things claim to value because others aren't allowed to enjoy them without paying the Danegeld, bullying, full undeserved self-righteousness, and then throw in a non-sequitur about Israel because why not? That's what's cool to shout about these days.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    @DPJHodges

    I didn’t believe reports Sunak and his team contemplated not attending the events at all. Having watched his interview again, and spoken to a couple of people, I’m not sure now. His explanation doesn’t add up.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    biggles said:

    DavidL said:

    boulay said:

    ToryJim said:

    boulay said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    12m
    Rishi Sunak says the issue shouldn’t be politicised and we should focus on the veterans. There was supposed to be a campaign pause for D-Day. He broke it, left the veterans, and came home for a political interview.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Um, he filmed an interview that wasn’t to be aired during D-day events and so clearly didn’t do any campaigning.

    The only reason people are aware he did an interview for the campaign is because of people wetting their pants about him missing part of the D-day commemorations. So he respected the campaigning pause - it was others who turned it into part of the campaign.
    That’s not how people will see it. He didn’t have time in his diary for veterans of D Day but could find the time to do a campaign interview. And his excuse that he did the British events but not the non-British one is just staggering. The liberation of Nazi occupied Europe was a joint endeavour, the commemoration of it should be too. Any PM who doesn’t get that instinctively deserves everything he gets.
    He didn’t have time for veterans except the one he pushed along in his wheelchair, the ones he met, addressed and quoted and praised at the ceremony he attended.

    Now I know I’m one of probably three people on this site who didn’t stop everything yesterday and devote the day to watching D-day, and I apologise for that, but I’m guessing the veterans cared more about the king being there, about actually being there themselves and getting the thanks from the ordinary people.

    I can’t imagine any of them knew who was actually attending the main ceremony. So let’s get someone to ask them - after all, it’s about them and their comrades. If they really are offended then Sunak needs to step down, if they say they don’t care, it’s not about politicians then we move on. Fair enough?


    I am particularly busy at the moment but I regret to say that I did not see a single minute of the anniversary commemorations either. No doubt the fault is mine.

    I get more than a little tired of those expressing outrage on someone else's behalf, someone they haven't even had the courtesy to ask. It is wearing.

    OTOH I find it very difficult to see what Sunak could possibly do that could make him look more Prime Ministerial or like a leader of substance than being there and playing a prominent part. It is politically stupid and inept, as so many of his decisions are. Morally? Bah!
    That’s the bit I just don’t understand. Flip this around. If you were running an election campaign and were offered free prime time tv time that didn’t “score” for electoral balance reasons, photo ops with world leaders, including Zelensky, and universally loved D-Day veterans; you’d jump at the chance.

    Him tuning it down shows incompetence and idiocy. It’s the exact opposite of taking the politically motivated choice some are accusing him of. It’s just stupid.
    Its so unfathomable on so many levels. Morally, personally, politically. It isn't like he was tasked with opening a local spoons and nicked off early as what is there to gain from having to listen to the local Nigel Farage tell you all about the world's problems.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    ToryJim said:

    boulay said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    12m
    Rishi Sunak says the issue shouldn’t be politicised and we should focus on the veterans. There was supposed to be a campaign pause for D-Day. He broke it, left the veterans, and came home for a political interview.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Um, he filmed an interview that wasn’t to be aired during D-day events and so clearly didn’t do any campaigning.

    The only reason people are aware he did an interview for the campaign is because of people wetting their pants about him missing part of the D-day commemorations. So he respected the campaigning pause - it was others who turned it into part of the campaign.
    That’s not how people will see it. He didn’t have time in his diary for veterans of D Day but could find the time to do a campaign interview. And his excuse that he did the British events but not the non-British one is just staggering. The liberation of Nazi occupied Europe was a joint endeavour, the commemoration of it should be too. Any PM who doesn’t get that instinctively deserves everything he gets.
    He didn’t have time for veterans except the one he pushed along in his wheelchair, the ones he met, addressed and quoted and praised at the ceremony he attended.

    Now I know I’m one of probably three people on this site who didn’t stop everything yesterday and devote the day to watching D-day, and I apologise for that, but I’m guessing the veterans cared more about the king being there, about actually being there themselves and getting the thanks from the ordinary people.

    I can’t imagine any of them knew who was actually attending the main ceremony. So let’s get someone to ask them - after all, it’s about them and their comrades. If they really are offended then Sunak needs to step down, if they say they don’t care, it’s not about politicians then we move on. Fair enough?


    I'm looking forward to the 100th anniversary of D-Day, when politicians will have to kneel down upon the Holy Sands, bare their back and flagellate themselves with the Sacred Barbed Wire Of Omaha. Anyone seen as not showing enough reverence will immediatey be tied to a Czech hedgehog, ready to be claimed by the next tide.
    Quite right too. I mean, I know most people who are hammering Sunak woke up early yesterday, faced towards Normandy and saluted at the time of the first landings then spent the day in sorrowful contemplation whilst watching Whoever has replaced Huw Edward’s looking mournful whilst weeping into their tissues.

    I know they refrained from anything frivolous but I think of the words of my grandfather who survived the war, who was bombing Normandy from D-day onwards, to go and enjoy every day and don’t take it all too seriously because you don’t know when it’s over.

    He lost two brothers in the war and would have found the performative outrage seriously embarrassing and possibly offensive in itself because the vast majority of the outrage isn’t because they hold these incredibly deep values and feelings for those who died but because it makes one side look bad and them better.
    Um nope - it's because it's the polite thing to do - everyone attended the UK ceremony so in return you turn up to the US ceremony.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    Leon said:

    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL

    Never give in to these people. You give an inch and before you know it everything is cancelled / problematic.
    It’s why SOME of us - the, how shall I say, more “perceptive” - opposed Woke from the start. Because this is obviously where it ends. Everything must be pure! Untainted! Woke! But that destroys everything because mankind is made of crooked timber; purity is an illusion even if it if desirable (which I gravely doubt)
  • JamesFJamesF Posts: 42
    DM_Andy said:

    Conspiracy theorists in Gateshead Central and Whickham have someone to vote for


    I love the fact that his surname is in square brackets!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    He has, somehow, defying all expectations, made it worse.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    @ShehabKhan

    NEW: The Lib Dems are calling on Rishi Sunak to donate their £5 million Frank Hester donation to a veterans' charity
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    MJW said:

    Leon said:

    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL

    Few things have made me angrier recently. It encapsulates everything wrong with 'radical' left-wing activism. Internally incoherent and incredibly stupid, hectoring, destroying the very things claim to value because others aren't allowed to enjoy them without paying the Danegeld, bullying, full undeserved self-righteousness, and then throw in a non-sequitur about Israel because why not? That's what's cool to shout about these days.
    And what does it achieve. Probably that some of these festivals don't go ahead. Well done Sebastian and Arabella. Top work.
  • Clutch_BromptonClutch_Brompton Posts: 737
    edited June 7
    For those feeling no mercy for certain knobheads I recommend the latest from Ian Dunt (which you can read for free).

    https://iandunt.substack.com/p/d-day-for-sunak
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    Eabhal said:

    TOPPING said:

    Eabhal said:

    Ok, the pipe major in the town I grew up in has just completely lost it a series of deeply offensive Facebook posts, all related to D-gate.

    CUT THROUGH

    "pipe major in the town..."

    This is a betting site so my market: 18-22 stone.
    Extraordinary. Keeping an eye out for your tips from now on.
    You can have my "Cons would be mad not to wait until Jan 2025" ones for nothing.

    I mean deadly accurate as an assessment of the Cons' state of mind but dreadful as a betting tip.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    I didn’t believe reports Sunak and his team contemplated not attending the events at all. Having watched his interview again, and spoken to a couple of people, I’m not sure now. His explanation doesn’t add up.

    If they have lied about this, he will absolutely 100% be finished.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    eek said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    ToryJim said:

    boulay said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    12m
    Rishi Sunak says the issue shouldn’t be politicised and we should focus on the veterans. There was supposed to be a campaign pause for D-Day. He broke it, left the veterans, and came home for a political interview.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Um, he filmed an interview that wasn’t to be aired during D-day events and so clearly didn’t do any campaigning.

    The only reason people are aware he did an interview for the campaign is because of people wetting their pants about him missing part of the D-day commemorations. So he respected the campaigning pause - it was others who turned it into part of the campaign.
    That’s not how people will see it. He didn’t have time in his diary for veterans of D Day but could find the time to do a campaign interview. And his excuse that he did the British events but not the non-British one is just staggering. The liberation of Nazi occupied Europe was a joint endeavour, the commemoration of it should be too. Any PM who doesn’t get that instinctively deserves everything he gets.
    He didn’t have time for veterans except the one he pushed along in his wheelchair, the ones he met, addressed and quoted and praised at the ceremony he attended.

    Now I know I’m one of probably three people on this site who didn’t stop everything yesterday and devote the day to watching D-day, and I apologise for that, but I’m guessing the veterans cared more about the king being there, about actually being there themselves and getting the thanks from the ordinary people.

    I can’t imagine any of them knew who was actually attending the main ceremony. So let’s get someone to ask them - after all, it’s about them and their comrades. If they really are offended then Sunak needs to step down, if they say they don’t care, it’s not about politicians then we move on. Fair enough?


    I'm looking forward to the 100th anniversary of D-Day, when politicians will have to kneel down upon the Holy Sands, bare their back and flagellate themselves with the Sacred Barbed Wire Of Omaha. Anyone seen as not showing enough reverence will immediatey be tied to a Czech hedgehog, ready to be claimed by the next tide.
    Quite right too. I mean, I know most people who are hammering Sunak woke up early yesterday, faced towards Normandy and saluted at the time of the first landings then spent the day in sorrowful contemplation whilst watching Whoever has replaced Huw Edward’s looking mournful whilst weeping into their tissues.

    I know they refrained from anything frivolous but I think of the words of my grandfather who survived the war, who was bombing Normandy from D-day onwards, to go and enjoy every day and don’t take it all too seriously because you don’t know when it’s over.

    He lost two brothers in the war and would have found the performative outrage seriously embarrassing and possibly offensive in itself because the vast majority of the outrage isn’t because they hold these incredibly deep values and feelings for those who died but because it makes one side look bad and them better.
    Um nope - it's because it's the polite thing to do - everyone attended the UK ceremony so in return you turn up to the US ceremony.
    I mean that last paragraph is just inaccurate. They didn’t.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061

    I don't fancy Penny Mourdant job this evening. It bad enough having 6 others gang up on you in a debate over your record in government, now what does she do about Sunak decision?

    Go in studs up on Farage.

    And let the PM speak for himself.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 7
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL

    Never give in to these people. You give an inch and before you know it everything is cancelled / problematic.
    It’s why SOME of us - the, how shall I say, more “perceptive” - opposed Woke from the start. Because this is obviously where it ends. Everything must be pure! Untainted! Woke! But that destroys everything because mankind is made of crooked timber; purity is an illusion even if it if desirable (which I gravely doubt)
    I think people who want to oppose "Woke", need to stop calling it Woke. Inside keep referring to intersectionality, because this is where the really mental purity stuff come from.

    The belief Inequality is due to oppression, unless the capitalist system is broken, there will always be inequality, therefore oppression hierarchy and therefore the system must be torn down.

    Like the eco-fascists. You aren't negotiating with good faith actors.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    I didn’t believe reports Sunak and his team contemplated not attending the events at all. Having watched his interview again, and spoken to a couple of people, I’m not sure now. His explanation doesn’t add up.

    If they have lied about this, he will absolutely 100% be finished.
    “I know we’ve had a lot of leaders since Boris folks, but this time we’ve picked a winner. Honest. Vote for them and we promise they will do the job until at least Christmas”.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874

    Cookie said:

    Anyoneknow what the record number of posts in a thread is?

    Are we making an attempt on the record?

    But the big long threads seem to be working well for discussion though? In relation to days with lots of threads to jump across to, that can be discussion(s) killer, this feels okay?

    But editors also need to be mindful lots of lurkers come for the quality and independent thoughts in the headers, i suspect.

    A focus on quality not quantity of headers, and longer threads for discussion seems good balance to me.
    In fairness to the editors, OGH has stepped down, TSE is off sick and Robert lives in another timezone. It's not surprising if we have to talk amongst ourselves for a little longer than usual.
    The depleted editorial team should use OGH's old tricks of starting a thread every time he saw a tweet about a new opinion poll, and when he didn't, regularly starting generic Nighthawks threads. We do not need the editors to spend the whole day crafting thousand-word headers.
    I wonder if there isn't a long standing respected member who could step up to being on the editorial team? How did TSE get his place?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    edited June 7
    biggles said:

    DavidL said:

    boulay said:

    ToryJim said:

    boulay said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    12m
    Rishi Sunak says the issue shouldn’t be politicised and we should focus on the veterans. There was supposed to be a campaign pause for D-Day. He broke it, left the veterans, and came home for a political interview.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Um, he filmed an interview that wasn’t to be aired during D-day events and so clearly didn’t do any campaigning.

    The only reason people are aware he did an interview for the campaign is because of people wetting their pants about him missing part of the D-day commemorations. So he respected the campaigning pause - it was others who turned it into part of the campaign.
    That’s not how people will see it. He didn’t have time in his diary for veterans of D Day but could find the time to do a campaign interview. And his excuse that he did the British events but not the non-British one is just staggering. The liberation of Nazi occupied Europe was a joint endeavour, the commemoration of it should be too. Any PM who doesn’t get that instinctively deserves everything he gets.
    He didn’t have time for veterans except the one he pushed along in his wheelchair, the ones he met, addressed and quoted and praised at the ceremony he attended.

    Now I know I’m one of probably three people on this site who didn’t stop everything yesterday and devote the day to watching D-day, and I apologise for that, but I’m guessing the veterans cared more about the king being there, about actually being there themselves and getting the thanks from the ordinary people.

    I can’t imagine any of them knew who was actually attending the main ceremony. So let’s get someone to ask them - after all, it’s about them and their comrades. If they really are offended then Sunak needs to step down, if they say they don’t care, it’s not about politicians then we move on. Fair enough?


    I am particularly busy at the moment but I regret to say that I did not see a single minute of the anniversary commemorations either. No doubt the fault is mine.

    I get more than a little tired of those expressing outrage on someone else's behalf, someone they haven't even had the courtesy to ask. It is wearing.

    OTOH I find it very difficult to see what Sunak could possibly do that could make him look more Prime Ministerial or like a leader of substance than being there and playing a prominent part. It is politically stupid and inept, as so many of his decisions are. Morally? Bah!
    That’s the bit I just don’t understand. Flip this around. If you were running an election campaign and were offered free prime time tv time that didn’t “score” for electoral balance reasons, photo ops with world leaders, including Zelensky, and universally loved D-Day veterans; you’d jump at the chance.

    Him turning it down shows incompetence and idiocy. It’s the exact opposite of taking the politically motivated choice some are accusing him of. It’s just stupid.
    It goes beyond stupid. It's stark raving bonkers. And to leave the LOTO to hold the field and representing the UK, I mean why doesn't he accept that he is for all practical purposes, no longer our PM and the chalice has already passed?

    Sunak had almost nothing going for him in the campaign. The one "almost" was incumbency and he has thrown the advantages that brings away. It's right up there with Jeremy Thorpe thinking, see that Norman Scott, he's a bit of a nuisance, maybe I should murder him.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    edited June 7
    biggles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    I didn’t believe reports Sunak and his team contemplated not attending the events at all. Having watched his interview again, and spoken to a couple of people, I’m not sure now. His explanation doesn’t add up.

    If they have lied about this, he will absolutely 100% be finished.
    “I know we’ve had a lot of leaders since Boris folks, but this time we’ve picked a winner. Honest. Vote for them and we promise they will do the job until at least Christmas”.
    Actually, joking aside, the only person who could parachute in now, take over, and minimise the defeat is Boris. He could brazen it out.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    a

    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1799040426764358137

    Tense.

    Do watch in full

    Must be one of the worst statements I have ever seen.

    I don't know, there are plenty to choose from. I remember the Gordon Brown one after the whole smear-gate, I take full responsibility so I fired the person responsible and I knew nothing about it even though I sit right by two of the people involved.
    The Labour Party was very, very lucky that it got found out before RedRag went live.
  • Well somehow SKS's "Sunak is a liar" point has been proven right in a matter of days. What seemed a poor comeback now looks once again like strategic genius.

    Rishi Sunak, the greatest Labour candidate in history.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edited June 7
    DavidL said:

    boulay said:

    ToryJim said:

    boulay said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    12m
    Rishi Sunak says the issue shouldn’t be politicised and we should focus on the veterans. There was supposed to be a campaign pause for D-Day. He broke it, left the veterans, and came home for a political interview.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Um, he filmed an interview that wasn’t to be aired during D-day events and so clearly didn’t do any campaigning.

    The only reason people are aware he did an interview for the campaign is because of people wetting their pants about him missing part of the D-day commemorations. So he respected the campaigning pause - it was others who turned it into part of the campaign.
    That’s not how people will see it. He didn’t have time in his diary for veterans of D Day but could find the time to do a campaign interview. And his excuse that he did the British events but not the non-British one is just staggering. The liberation of Nazi occupied Europe was a joint endeavour, the commemoration of it should be too. Any PM who doesn’t get that instinctively deserves everything he gets.
    He didn’t have time for veterans except the one he pushed along in his wheelchair, the ones he met, addressed and quoted and praised at the ceremony he attended.

    Now I know I’m one of probably three people on this site who didn’t stop everything yesterday and devote the day to watching D-day, and I apologise for that, but I’m guessing the veterans cared more about the king being there, about actually being there themselves and getting the thanks from the ordinary people.

    I can’t imagine any of them knew who was actually attending the main ceremony. So let’s get someone to ask them - after all, it’s about them and their comrades. If they really are offended then Sunak needs to step down, if they say they don’t care, it’s not about politicians then we move on. Fair enough?


    I am particularly busy at the moment but I regret to say that I did not see a single minute of the anniversary commemorations either. No doubt the fault is mine.

    I get more than a little tired of those expressing outrage on someone else's behalf, someone they haven't even had the courtesy to ask. It is wearing.

    OTOH I find it very difficult to see what Sunak could possibly do that could make him look more Prime Ministerial or like a leader of substance than being there and playing a prominent part. It is politically stupid and inept, as so many of his decisions are. Morally? Bah!
    Yes. he has to go so we don't have to. If a new PM wants to know what that is like, every day for years, he could ask the king. Most of us don't want the job, and that is one of the reasons.

    And I did't watch a single second of the D-Day stuff, and that bears no relation to whether I care. I shall be in the back row somewhere on the second Sunday in November wearing my poppy, remember the 6 years of my dad's life from 1939-1945 and go home.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    Nigelb said:

    I don't fancy Penny Mourdant job this evening. It bad enough having 6 others gang up on you in a debate over your record in government, now what does she do about Sunak decision?

    Go in studs up on Farage.

    And let the PM speak for himself.
    What does that even look like? Calling him a racist isn't going to fly with the voters they're fighting over.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,988
    Leon said:

    sarissa said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s high time PB woke gestapo tried to get me banned again. It’s been at least three days

    Nah, just accept you erred (we all do) and move on.
    No. Come get me
    No, you're not worth it.

    I'm not surprised at your racism, its not the first and won't be your last.

    I see your point but you’re a stupid fat dickless loser in a Barratt home new build in Warrington. So we also have to take that into consideration, surely, as it means you are SO low in the pecking order of life you are desperate for the tiniest scintilla of perceived superiority, moral or intellectual, even when it is clearly bogus, as here

    YOU’LL FIND ME AT THE MOZART CAFE
    At 10 o'clock?
    It’s 3pm in Odessa darling. EVERYONE goes to “the Mozart” at 3

    Don’t you know ANYTHING?

    *essays disdainful pout*
    Not a Carry On fan, then.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 7
    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    I didn’t believe reports Sunak and his team contemplated not attending the events at all. Having watched his interview again, and spoken to a couple of people, I’m not sure now. His explanation doesn’t add up.

    If they have lied about this, he will absolutely 100% be finished.
    “I know we’ve had a lot of leaders since Boris folks, but this time we’ve picked a winner. Honest. Vote for them and we promise they will do the job until at least Christmas”.
    Actually, joking aside, the only person who could parachute in now, take over, and minimise the defeat is Boris. He could brazen it out.
    He is on holiday....keeping himself 1000s of miles away from this.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978

    a

    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1799040426764358137

    Tense.

    Do watch in full

    Must be one of the worst statements I have ever seen.

    I don't know, there are plenty to choose from. I remember the Gordon Brown one after the whole smear-gate, I take full responsibility so I fired the person responsible and I knew nothing about it even though I sit right by two of the people involved.
    The Labour Party was very, very lucky that it got found out before RedRag went live.
    How Kevin Maguire managed to carry on in the media like nothing happened is beyond me.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    edited June 7
    DavidL said:

    biggles said:

    DavidL said:

    boulay said:

    ToryJim said:

    boulay said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    12m
    Rishi Sunak says the issue shouldn’t be politicised and we should focus on the veterans. There was supposed to be a campaign pause for D-Day. He broke it, left the veterans, and came home for a political interview.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Um, he filmed an interview that wasn’t to be aired during D-day events and so clearly didn’t do any campaigning.

    The only reason people are aware he did an interview for the campaign is because of people wetting their pants about him missing part of the D-day commemorations. So he respected the campaigning pause - it was others who turned it into part of the campaign.
    That’s not how people will see it. He didn’t have time in his diary for veterans of D Day but could find the time to do a campaign interview. And his excuse that he did the British events but not the non-British one is just staggering. The liberation of Nazi occupied Europe was a joint endeavour, the commemoration of it should be too. Any PM who doesn’t get that instinctively deserves everything he gets.
    He didn’t have time for veterans except the one he pushed along in his wheelchair, the ones he met, addressed and quoted and praised at the ceremony he attended.

    Now I know I’m one of probably three people on this site who didn’t stop everything yesterday and devote the day to watching D-day, and I apologise for that, but I’m guessing the veterans cared more about the king being there, about actually being there themselves and getting the thanks from the ordinary people.

    I can’t imagine any of them knew who was actually attending the main ceremony. So let’s get someone to ask them - after all, it’s about them and their comrades. If they really are offended then Sunak needs to step down, if they say they don’t care, it’s not about politicians then we move on. Fair enough?


    I am particularly busy at the moment but I regret to say that I did not see a single minute of the anniversary commemorations either. No doubt the fault is mine.

    I get more than a little tired of those expressing outrage on someone else's behalf, someone they haven't even had the courtesy to ask. It is wearing.

    OTOH I find it very difficult to see what Sunak could possibly do that could make him look more Prime Ministerial or like a leader of substance than being there and playing a prominent part. It is politically stupid and inept, as so many of his decisions are. Morally? Bah!
    That’s the bit I just don’t understand. Flip this around. If you were running an election campaign and were offered free prime time tv time that didn’t “score” for electoral balance reasons, photo ops with world leaders, including Zelensky, and universally loved D-Day veterans; you’d jump at the chance.

    Him turning it down shows incompetence and idiocy. It’s the exact opposite of taking the politically motivated choice some are accusing him of. It’s just stupid.
    It goes beyond stupid. It's stark raving bonkers. And to leave the LOTO to hold the field and representing the UK, I mean why doesn't he accept that he is for all practical purposes, no longer our PM and the chalice has already passed?

    Sunak had almost nothing going for him in the campaign. The one "almost" was incumbency and he has thrown the advantages that brings away. It's right up there with Jeremy Thorpe thinking, see that Norman Scott, he's a bit of a nuisance, maybe I should murder him.
    If he had done this outside of an election, you have to guess he’d have been no-confidenced.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    edited June 7

    Leon said:

    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL

    Never give in to these people. You give an inch and before you know it everything is cancelled / problematic.
    The activists are basically objecting to BG being an investment company.

    ...“The assertion that we have significant amounts of money in the occupied Palestinian territories is offensively misleading. Baillie Gifford is a large investor in several multinational technology companies, including Amazon, Nvidia and Meta. Demanding divestment from these global companies, used by millions of people around the world, is unreasonable and serves no purpose. Much as it would be unreasonable to demand authors boycott Instagram or stop selling books on Amazon.”

    Baillie Gifford was also not a “significant fossil fuel investor”, Thomas said. “Only 2% of our clients’ money is invested in companies with some business related to fossil fuels. We invest far more in companies helping drive the transition to clean energy.”..
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212

    Cookie said:

    Anyoneknow what the record number of posts in a thread is?

    Are we making an attempt on the record?

    But the big long threads seem to be working well for discussion though? In relation to days with lots of threads to jump across to, that can be discussion(s) killer, this feels okay?

    But editors also need to be mindful lots of lurkers come for the quality and independent thoughts in the headers, i suspect.

    A focus on quality not quantity of headers, and longer threads for discussion seems good balance to me.
    In fairness to the editors, OGH has stepped down, TSE is off sick and Robert lives in another timezone. It's not surprising if we have to talk amongst ourselves for a little longer than usual.
    The depleted editorial team should use OGH's old tricks of starting a thread every time he saw a tweet about a new opinion poll, and when he didn't, regularly starting generic Nighthawks threads. We do not need the editors to spend the whole day crafting thousand-word headers.
    I wonder if there isn't a long standing respected member who could step up to being on the editorial team? How did TSE get his place?
    All you need is membership of the Grand Council of the Illuminati, the Trilateral Commission *and* The Elders of Zion.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 7
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL

    Never give in to these people. You give an inch and before you know it everything is cancelled / problematic.
    The activists are basically objecting to BF being an investment company.

    ...“The assertion that we have significant amounts of money in the occupied Palestinian territories is offensively misleading. Baillie Gifford is a large investor in several multinational technology companies, including Amazon, Nvidia and Meta. Demanding divestment from these global companies, used by millions of people around the world, is unreasonable and serves no purpose. Much as it would be unreasonable to demand authors boycott Instagram or stop selling books on Amazon.”

    Baillie Gifford was also not a “significant fossil fuel investor”, Thomas said. “Only 2% of our clients’ money is invested in companies with some business related to fossil fuels. We invest far more in companies helping drive the transition to clean energy.”..
    This is my point. They are rarely if ever good faith actors, they despise the capitalist system, it must be torn down. I bet we all indirectly have 2% of our pension etc invested in these areas.

    One of the XR founder was honest about it at the beginning, that climate change cause was just a vehicle to help them achieve this by tapping into wider public concerns about the environment.

    This is what they are doing here, leveraging fossil fuels and Israel.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    edited June 7
    OK NEW D-DAY NEWS

    My postie just arrived. Shaved head, tats everywhere you look, including one of those ones with a bulldog holding a union jack or maybe wearing one I didn't look to closely.

    Came over, handed me my post, left.

    Not. A. Word. about Normandy.

    DYOR and bet accordingly.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    I didn’t believe reports Sunak and his team contemplated not attending the events at all. Having watched his interview again, and spoken to a couple of people, I’m not sure now. His explanation doesn’t add up.

    If they have lied about this, he will absolutely 100% be finished.
    Is there a mechanism to force Sunak out? I assume the 1922 does not work because they aren't technically MPs at the moment.

    And he is safe as PM because there isn't a House to draw confidence from.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL

    Never give in to these people. You give an inch and before you know it everything is cancelled / problematic.
    The activists are basically objecting to BF being an investment company.

    ...“The assertion that we have significant amounts of money in the occupied Palestinian territories is offensively misleading. Baillie Gifford is a large investor in several multinational technology companies, including Amazon, Nvidia and Meta. Demanding divestment from these global companies, used by millions of people around the world, is unreasonable and serves no purpose. Much as it would be unreasonable to demand authors boycott Instagram or stop selling books on Amazon.”

    Baillie Gifford was also not a “significant fossil fuel investor”, Thomas said. “Only 2% of our clients’ money is invested in companies with some business related to fossil fuels. We invest far more in companies helping drive the transition to clean energy.”..
    This is my point. They are rarely if ever good faith actors, they despise the capitalist system, it must be torn down. One of the XR founder was honest about it at the beginning, that climate change cause was just a vehicle to help them achieve this by tapping into wider public concerns about the environment.
    I have a coal fire. Am I….. cancelled?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,573
    Scott_xP said:

    @ShehabKhan

    NEW: The Lib Dems are calling on Rishi Sunak to donate their £5 million Frank Hester donation to a veterans' charity

    Could add the £4m the LibDems took from Michael Brown and really help those veterans.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    I am just home from work and errands in town. What has Sunak done now?

    In other news, I hear that Labour has, if I understand the details correctly, promised to revive the Help to Buy scheme (slightly different name this time, but same DNA) and make it permanent. If anyone ever doubted that one of the principle functions of the British state is to ensure ever-rising house prices, there's your proof.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    biggles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL

    Never give in to these people. You give an inch and before you know it everything is cancelled / problematic.
    The activists are basically objecting to BF being an investment company.

    ...“The assertion that we have significant amounts of money in the occupied Palestinian territories is offensively misleading. Baillie Gifford is a large investor in several multinational technology companies, including Amazon, Nvidia and Meta. Demanding divestment from these global companies, used by millions of people around the world, is unreasonable and serves no purpose. Much as it would be unreasonable to demand authors boycott Instagram or stop selling books on Amazon.”

    Baillie Gifford was also not a “significant fossil fuel investor”, Thomas said. “Only 2% of our clients’ money is invested in companies with some business related to fossil fuels. We invest far more in companies helping drive the transition to clean energy.”..
    This is my point. They are rarely if ever good faith actors, they despise the capitalist system, it must be torn down. One of the XR founder was honest about it at the beginning, that climate change cause was just a vehicle to help them achieve this by tapping into wider public concerns about the environment.
    I have a coal fire. Am I….. cancelled?
    Sorry, who are you?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,812
    TOPPING said:

    OK NEW D-DAY NEWS

    My postie just arrived. Shaved head, tats everywhere you look, including one of those ones with a bulldog holding a union jack or maybe wearing one I didn't look to closely.

    Came over, handed me my post, left.

    Not. A. Word. about Normandy.

    DYOR and bet accordingly.

    Left - clear indication he is Labour, right?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    I have to say it will be bloody hilarious if the Tories have one more leadership change before the general election.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 7
    pigeon said:

    I am just home from work and errands in town. What has Sunak done now?

    In other news, I hear that Labour has, if I understand the details correctly, promised to revive the Help to Buy scheme (slightly different name this time, but same DNA) and make it permanent. If anyone ever doubted that one of the principle functions of the British state is to ensure ever-rising house prices, there's your proof.

    This guy explains it well, from a few months ago when Tories floated similar idea. There is no free lunch on this.

    99% Mortgages Are A Terrible Idea.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGgA_C7znwY

    And the ticking timebomb is already there...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/08/12/help-buy-scheme-first-time-buyers-downsize/

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/first-time-buyers-forced-sell-up-unaffordable-help-to-buy/

    A lot of Labour flagship policies appear to be just reheated with a new name. Freedom to Buy, the national wealth scheme is PFI, ASBOS are coming back with a different name.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    edited June 7
    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cicero said:

    Help to Buy is to getting a rebrand as Freedom to Buy...

    https://news.sky.com/story/labour-to-offer-freedom-to-buy-for-young-people-with-mortgage-guarantee-scheme-13148889

    Permanent very low deposits guaranteed by government has other negatives above the risk of bad loans.

    What percentage of council houses sold are still in the hands of owner occupiers, as opposed to private rental companies?
    40% of right to buy homes are now rented out privately.

    PB likes to ignore the vast shifts in housing tenure in the last 14 years, but ultimately it's the reason why the country has become more unequal and why the number of natural Conservative voters has fallen. There is no evidence that a mass private housebuilding programme would reverse the trend and increase ownership - all the new homes will simply be hoovered up by those who have accumulated large savings.
    That shows a gross ignorance of economics and follows your typical lame excuse-making for NIMBYism.

    The reason for the vast shifts in housing tenure is the lack of building supply. If supply increases that will be reversed.

    And of course in a healthy free housing economy typically 10% of homes are unoccupied [for very good reasons] which means homes in poor condition or are too expensive don't get let out and the owner is left paying their bills/mortgage and taxes without a tenant paying them any rent.

    So why would those with savings snap up all homes if supply is increased and they can't let them out? It means price falls and people who want to buy to own have a choice, as well as tenants having a choice, on where to live.
    There he blows!

    New homes: 2.0 million
    Increase in households renting: 1.1 million
    Increase in households owning outright: 0.9 million
    Decrease in households with a mortgage: -0.4 million

    It would have certainly been worse without any new homes. But the idea that an increase in supply is the only intervention required is nonsense - wealth inequality is now far too great in the UK for that to suffice.
    That's been caused by the terrible shortage of new homes, meaning prices are far too high. Which is fundamental supply and demand in action.

    An increase in supply may not be the only intervention required, I never said it is, but it is absolutely 100% needed and would help to reverse the damage that has been done.

    Of course if supply increases and prices fall in real terms, then that would lower that inequality you mentioned too.
    The number of new homes has increased faster than the population, by a wide margin. It's actually a glut.

    The problem is that there are significant mismatches with where those houses are being built and where there is housing pressure. At risk of pissing off lots of PBers, here is my official assessment of LAs (bespoke assessments can be provided on request):

    YIMBY Gold award:

    Selby
    Huntingdonshire
    Mid Suffolk
    Telford and Wrekin
    West Lindsey

    NIMBY Black Spot of Barty Doom

    Pendle
    Thurrock
    Swale
    Epping Forest
    Peterborough

    Urban Excellence award: Southwark
    Rural Excellence award: West Devon, Cotswolds, Uttlesford
    Leon award: Camden, Westminster, Kensington and Chelsea (fewer houses, population falling)
    Trooper award: Tower Hamlets, Bedford, Tewkesbury (massive effort, but simply can’t keep up)
    Breeze block award: Barking and Dagenham, Slough, Leicester (massive population growth, no attempt to deal with it)
    Barty award: Copeland, Richmondshire, Caerphilly, Allerdale (population falling but f*** it more houses anyway)
    This glut is all in your head.

    The number of new homes has nowhere near kept up with demand.

    Again you show a shocking ignorance of the effects of demographics on housing requirements, talking again only of "population". 🤦‍♂️
    8.2% increase in homes
    6.1% increase in households
    6.3% increase in population
    Why are you lying?

    Your households figure is a lie. You know this, so why repeat it?

    People who are compelled to share a home as there's not enough houses are classed as one household. You know that, but you're repeating your lies anyway. 🤦‍♂️

    The idea that t here's been a lesser increase in household demand than population increase, when our demographic changes mean there's even further household pressures, is so obviously false its remarkable your following through on this outright blatant lie.
    The number of people per household has fallen, and overcrowding has fallen too.

    Edit: sorry, the population per household has risen* This is explained by immigrants being much more efficient users of households than say older people
    The number of people per household should have fallen as we have 4 million extra over 50s than we did. Who don't live with children.🤦‍♂️

    Immigration doesn't counter that.

    Your own data reveals the chronic housing shortage. Again!
    In most LAs, housing pressure is actually falling. It's only in about 100 where you see this acute problem, and they are mostly in our cities.
    Don't believe you - please provide evidence because even this week I saw issues in 3 local authorities round here..
    Absolutely.

    I'd love to know these mythical local authorities without housing shortages.
    I provided you with some examples above :)
    I have posted the infographic on this before too, once directly in reply to Bart.

    Glad you got there in the end. You have always banged on that we build plenty of homes. You always missed the point that these are not necessarily where they are needed. Glad to see that is rectified.
    That has always been the point I wanted to make.

    But even then, I suspect more housebuilding in and around London, Edinburgh etc will just serve to keep pushing those economies on, never really solve the housing crisis there. Vicious cycle.
    Sure. But what is the point of more housebuilding in areas like South Shields where the population actually contracted in between the censuses.
    In South Tyneside, the population fell while the number of households increased very slightly.

    This is where the analysis is tricky - under Bart's thinking, that means there was some housing pressure, which has some merit.

    However, I suggest that the inverse is happening - there is so little pressure on housing in S.Tyneside people can afford to live alone. I think Barty includes this effect in his definition of "pressure", which I think is a little misleading. Indeed, comparing that kind of "pressure" to that experienced by people in London is just plain wrong.

    Under his definition, housing pressure is effectively inescapable. We'd all love to live alone in a 10 bed mansion.
    Most people, most of the time, buy the best house that the bank will let them afford. So, in that sense, I think there is an element of demand for housing being almost infinite.

    If you taxed buy-to-let out of existence, and tightened up the mortgage rules to reduce how much people could borrow, then you could engineer a very large drop in house prices, even with no surge in house-building.

    I don't think that would be the approach that would maximise human happiness, or economic utility, however.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    pigeon said:

    I am just home from work and errands in town. What has Sunak done now?

    In other news, I hear that Labour has, if I understand the details correctly, promised to revive the Help to Buy scheme (slightly different name this time, but same DNA) and make it permanent. If anyone ever doubted that one of the principle functions of the British state is to ensure ever-rising house prices, there's your proof.

    Someone should ask them for a precise calculation of the number of people who bought a house because of the old mortgage guarantee, who wouldn’t have been offered a mortgage anyway.

    Clue: It’s a “round” number.

    It’s a really good policy for allowing people who could by anyway to spend a bit more, and then (as you say) nudge up prices and pull the ladder up behind them.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    I didn’t believe reports Sunak and his team contemplated not attending the events at all. Having watched his interview again, and spoken to a couple of people, I’m not sure now. His explanation doesn’t add up.

    If they have lied about this, he will absolutely 100% be finished.
    Im not sure how he can be much more finished than he is currently.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL

    Never give in to these people. You give an inch and before you know it everything is cancelled / problematic.
    The activists are basically objecting to BF being an investment company.

    ...“The assertion that we have significant amounts of money in the occupied Palestinian territories is offensively misleading. Baillie Gifford is a large investor in several multinational technology companies, including Amazon, Nvidia and Meta. Demanding divestment from these global companies, used by millions of people around the world, is unreasonable and serves no purpose. Much as it would be unreasonable to demand authors boycott Instagram or stop selling books on Amazon.”

    Baillie Gifford was also not a “significant fossil fuel investor”, Thomas said. “Only 2% of our clients’ money is invested in companies with some business related to fossil fuels. We invest far more in companies helping drive the transition to clean energy.”..
    This is my point. They are rarely if ever good faith actors, they despise the capitalist system, it must be torn down. I bet we all indirectly have 2% of our pension etc invested in these areas.

    One of the XR founder was honest about it at the beginning, that climate change cause was just a vehicle to help them achieve this by tapping into wider public concerns about the environment.

    This is what they are doing here, leveraging fossil fuels and Israel.
    XR are a bunch of risibles.
    Anyone serious about action on climate change should share that opinion.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Well, I've seen a few bits of news today.

    I'm going to make a bold prediction: The Tories are going to struggle to win today's news cycle.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986

    Cookie said:

    Anyoneknow what the record number of posts in a thread is?

    Are we making an attempt on the record?

    But the big long threads seem to be working well for discussion though? In relation to days with lots of threads to jump across to, that can be discussion(s) killer, this feels okay?

    But editors also need to be mindful lots of lurkers come for the quality and independent thoughts in the headers, i suspect.

    A focus on quality not quantity of headers, and longer threads for discussion seems good balance to me.
    In fairness to the editors, OGH has stepped down, TSE is off sick and Robert lives in another timezone. It's not surprising if we have to talk amongst ourselves for a little longer than usual.
    The depleted editorial team should use OGH's old tricks of starting a thread every time he saw a tweet about a new opinion poll, and when he didn't, regularly starting generic Nighthawks threads. We do not need the editors to spend the whole day crafting thousand-word headers.
    I wonder if there isn't a long standing respected member who could step up to being on the editorial team? How did TSE get his place?
    All you need is membership of the Grand Council of the Illuminati, the Trilateral Commission *and* The Elders of Zion.
    Oh, I am sooooo close on this one
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    TOPPING said:

    OK NEW D-DAY NEWS

    My postie just arrived. Shaved head, tats everywhere you look, including one of those ones with a bulldog holding a union jack or maybe wearing one I didn't look to closely.

    Came over, handed me my post, left.

    Not. A. Word. about Normandy.

    DYOR and bet accordingly.

    He (or she) has clearly got your number.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Eabhal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    I didn’t believe reports Sunak and his team contemplated not attending the events at all. Having watched his interview again, and spoken to a couple of people, I’m not sure now. His explanation doesn’t add up.

    If they have lied about this, he will absolutely 100% be finished.
    Is there a mechanism to force Sunak out? I assume the 1922 does not work because they aren't technically MPs at the moment.

    And he is safe as PM because there isn't a House to draw confidence from.
    I mean he could resign as leader of the Tories, but that would only be making de jure what is de facto already because I don’t think there’s a lot of leading going on.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    ToryJim said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    I didn’t believe reports Sunak and his team contemplated not attending the events at all. Having watched his interview again, and spoken to a couple of people, I’m not sure now. His explanation doesn’t add up.

    If they have lied about this, he will absolutely 100% be finished.
    Im not sure how he can be much more finished than he is currently.
    Hold his beer for him…
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    ToryJim said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    I didn’t believe reports Sunak and his team contemplated not attending the events at all. Having watched his interview again, and spoken to a couple of people, I’m not sure now. His explanation doesn’t add up.

    If they have lied about this, he will absolutely 100% be finished.
    Im not sure how he can be much more finished than he is currently.
    Toast is back in the toaster
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    OK NEW D-DAY NEWS

    My postie just arrived. Shaved head, tats everywhere you look, including one of those ones with a bulldog holding a union jack or maybe wearing one I didn't look to closely.

    Came over, handed me my post, left.

    Not. A. Word. about Normandy.

    DYOR and bet accordingly.

    He (or she) has clearly got your number.
    I hope so, or he’d never get his post…
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,067

    kinabalu said:

    Eabhal said:

    Ok, the pipe major in the town I grew up in has just completely lost it a series of deeply abusive Facebook posts, all related to D-gate.

    CUT THROUGH

    "Garage door openers"

    "The pipe major in my town"

    I'm in an unfamiliar world here today.
    That's why we come here. Provincial British exotica. I don't know why Leon's always travelling, we've got everything here.
    War memorial
    Bus station
    Greggs
    Deserted Debenhams shop
    More Greggs
    Van selling burgers or kebabs
    Cashpoints
    Tramp outside cashpoint
    Drunks at prominent doorway begging/menacing
    Old fat people on mobility scooters, so fat the seat disappears in the bottom
    Nightclub that looks old and tacky in the daytime, with blanked-out windows
    Vape shops
    Charity shops
    British Heart Foundation Furniture and Electrical
    Waitrose/Sainsburys/Tescos/Co-op/Morrisons
    Buskers
    Tattoo shops
    Chain Coffee shop (Costa, Starbucks, whatevs)
    Local Coffee shop/cake shop where you can sit down with bacon roll and read book for a bit
    People sitting at tables drinking coffee like it was Paris or something
    Car parks
    Boarded-up shopping centre/road
    Pub advertising football
    Big Issue seller from Eastern Europe
    Opticians
    Nail bars
    Ice-cream shop
  • There’s no mechanism to have another leadership election.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    MJW said:

    Leon said:

    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL

    Few things have made me angrier recently. It encapsulates everything wrong with 'radical' left-wing activism. Internally incoherent and incredibly stupid, hectoring, destroying the very things claim to value because others aren't allowed to enjoy them without paying the Danegeld, bullying, full undeserved self-righteousness, and then throw in a non-sequitur about Israel because why not? That's what's cool to shout about these days.
    And what does it achieve. Probably that some of these festivals don't go ahead. Well done Sebastian and Arabella. Top work.
    Two of the big campaigners who got all the literary festivals cancelled are Nish Kumar and Charlotte Church. Which is kinda perfect, two more objectionable twats it is hard to imagine
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    DavidL said:

    biggles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL

    Never give in to these people. You give an inch and before you know it everything is cancelled / problematic.
    The activists are basically objecting to BF being an investment company.

    ...“The assertion that we have significant amounts of money in the occupied Palestinian territories is offensively misleading. Baillie Gifford is a large investor in several multinational technology companies, including Amazon, Nvidia and Meta. Demanding divestment from these global companies, used by millions of people around the world, is unreasonable and serves no purpose. Much as it would be unreasonable to demand authors boycott Instagram or stop selling books on Amazon.”

    Baillie Gifford was also not a “significant fossil fuel investor”, Thomas said. “Only 2% of our clients’ money is invested in companies with some business related to fossil fuels. We invest far more in companies helping drive the transition to clean energy.”..
    This is my point. They are rarely if ever good faith actors, they despise the capitalist system, it must be torn down. One of the XR founder was honest about it at the beginning, that climate change cause was just a vehicle to help them achieve this by tapping into wider public concerns about the environment.
    I have a coal fire. Am I….. cancelled?
    Sorry, who are you?
    He is on The List for conviction, followed by involuntary cremation.

    On a coal fire.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 7
    Leon said:

    MJW said:

    Leon said:

    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL

    Few things have made me angrier recently. It encapsulates everything wrong with 'radical' left-wing activism. Internally incoherent and incredibly stupid, hectoring, destroying the very things claim to value because others aren't allowed to enjoy them without paying the Danegeld, bullying, full undeserved self-righteousness, and then throw in a non-sequitur about Israel because why not? That's what's cool to shout about these days.
    And what does it achieve. Probably that some of these festivals don't go ahead. Well done Sebastian and Arabella. Top work.
    Two of the big campaigners who got all the literary festivals cancelled are Nish Kumar and Charlotte Church. Which is kinda perfect, two more objectionable twats it is hard to imagine
    Nish Kumar is about the most unfunny comedian there is. Seems unfair to comedians to even label him as that. A bit like Sunak and PM.

    I mean i disagree with Mark Thomas on most thing political but he was bloody funny.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    edited June 7

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cicero said:

    Help to Buy is to getting a rebrand as Freedom to Buy...

    https://news.sky.com/story/labour-to-offer-freedom-to-buy-for-young-people-with-mortgage-guarantee-scheme-13148889

    Permanent very low deposits guaranteed by government has other negatives above the risk of bad loans.

    What percentage of council houses sold are still in the hands of owner occupiers, as opposed to private rental companies?
    40% of right to buy homes are now rented out privately.

    PB likes to ignore the vast shifts in housing tenure in the last 14 years, but ultimately it's the reason why the country has become more unequal and why the number of natural Conservative voters has fallen. There is no evidence that a mass private housebuilding programme would reverse the trend and increase ownership - all the new homes will simply be hoovered up by those who have accumulated large savings.
    That shows a gross ignorance of economics and follows your typical lame excuse-making for NIMBYism.

    The reason for the vast shifts in housing tenure is the lack of building supply. If supply increases that will be reversed.

    And of course in a healthy free housing economy typically 10% of homes are unoccupied [for very good reasons] which means homes in poor condition or are too expensive don't get let out and the owner is left paying their bills/mortgage and taxes without a tenant paying them any rent.

    So why would those with savings snap up all homes if supply is increased and they can't let them out? It means price falls and people who want to buy to own have a choice, as well as tenants having a choice, on where to live.
    There he blows!

    New homes: 2.0 million
    Increase in households renting: 1.1 million
    Increase in households owning outright: 0.9 million
    Decrease in households with a mortgage: -0.4 million

    It would have certainly been worse without any new homes. But the idea that an increase in supply is the only intervention required is nonsense - wealth inequality is now far too great in the UK for that to suffice.
    That's been caused by the terrible shortage of new homes, meaning prices are far too high. Which is fundamental supply and demand in action.

    An increase in supply may not be the only intervention required, I never said it is, but it is absolutely 100% needed and would help to reverse the damage that has been done.

    Of course if supply increases and prices fall in real terms, then that would lower that inequality you mentioned too.
    The number of new homes has increased faster than the population, by a wide margin. It's actually a glut.

    The problem is that there are significant mismatches with where those houses are being built and where there is housing pressure. At risk of pissing off lots of PBers, here is my official assessment of LAs (bespoke assessments can be provided on request):

    YIMBY Gold award:

    Selby
    Huntingdonshire
    Mid Suffolk
    Telford and Wrekin
    West Lindsey

    NIMBY Black Spot of Barty Doom

    Pendle
    Thurrock
    Swale
    Epping Forest
    Peterborough

    Urban Excellence award: Southwark
    Rural Excellence award: West Devon, Cotswolds, Uttlesford
    Leon award: Camden, Westminster, Kensington and Chelsea (fewer houses, population falling)
    Trooper award: Tower Hamlets, Bedford, Tewkesbury (massive effort, but simply can’t keep up)
    Breeze block award: Barking and Dagenham, Slough, Leicester (massive population growth, no attempt to deal with it)
    Barty award: Copeland, Richmondshire, Caerphilly, Allerdale (population falling but f*** it more houses anyway)
    This glut is all in your head.

    The number of new homes has nowhere near kept up with demand.

    Again you show a shocking ignorance of the effects of demographics on housing requirements, talking again only of "population". 🤦‍♂️
    8.2% increase in homes
    6.1% increase in households
    6.3% increase in population
    Why are you lying?

    Your households figure is a lie. You know this, so why repeat it?

    People who are compelled to share a home as there's not enough houses are classed as one household. You know that, but you're repeating your lies anyway. 🤦‍♂️

    The idea that t here's been a lesser increase in household demand than population increase, when our demographic changes mean there's even further household pressures, is so obviously false its remarkable your following through on this outright blatant lie.
    The number of people per household has fallen, and overcrowding has fallen too.

    Edit: sorry, the population per household has risen* This is explained by immigrants being much more efficient users of households than say older people
    The number of people per household should have fallen as we have 4 million extra over 50s than we did. Who don't live with children.🤦‍♂️

    Immigration doesn't counter that.

    Your own data reveals the chronic housing shortage. Again!
    In most LAs, housing pressure is actually falling. It's only in about 100 where you see this acute problem, and they are mostly in our cities.
    Don't believe you - please provide evidence because even this week I saw issues in 3 local authorities round here..
    Absolutely.

    I'd love to know these mythical local authorities without housing shortages.
    I provided you with some examples above :)
    I have posted the infographic on this before too, once directly in reply to Bart.

    Glad you got there in the end. You have always banged on that we build plenty of homes. You always missed the point that these are not necessarily where they are needed. Glad to see that is rectified.
    That has always been the point I wanted to make.

    But even then, I suspect more housebuilding in and around London, Edinburgh etc will just serve to keep pushing those economies on, never really solve the housing crisis there. Vicious cycle.
    Sure. But what is the point of more housebuilding in areas like South Shields where the population actually contracted in between the censuses.
    In South Tyneside, the population fell while the number of households increased very slightly.

    This is where the analysis is tricky - under Bart's thinking, that means there was some housing pressure, which has some merit.

    However, I suggest that the inverse is happening - there is so little pressure on housing in S.Tyneside people can afford to live alone. I think Barty includes this effect in his definition of "pressure", which I think is a little misleading. Indeed, comparing that kind of "pressure" to that experienced by people in London is just plain wrong.

    Under his definition, housing pressure is effectively inescapable. We'd all love to live alone in a 10 bed mansion.
    Most people, most of the time, buy the best house that the bank will let them afford. So, in that sense, I think there is an element of demand for housing being almost infinite.

    If you taxed buy-to-let out of existence, and tightened up the mortgage rules to reduce how much people could borrow, then you could engineer a very large drop in house prices, even with no surge in house-building.

    I don't think that would be the approach that would maximise human happiness, or economic utility, however.
    Yes, I think that's fair.

    I also think we should applaud those LAs that have experienced large population increases while keeping average household size steady, or even lower. They've dealt with it while not sacrificing living conditions:

    Tewkesbury
    Central Bedfordshire
    Uttlesford
    Vale of White Horse
    South Norfolk
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Leon said:

    MJW said:

    Leon said:

    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL

    Few things have made me angrier recently. It encapsulates everything wrong with 'radical' left-wing activism. Internally incoherent and incredibly stupid, hectoring, destroying the very things claim to value because others aren't allowed to enjoy them without paying the Danegeld, bullying, full undeserved self-righteousness, and then throw in a non-sequitur about Israel because why not? That's what's cool to shout about these days.
    And what does it achieve. Probably that some of these festivals don't go ahead. Well done Sebastian and Arabella. Top work.
    Two of the big campaigners who got all the literary festivals cancelled are Nish Kumar and Charlotte Church. Which is kinda perfect, two more objectionable twats it is hard to imagine
    Are we sure if either of them can actually read? They don’t strike me as people suffused in literature
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    In other WWII related news, I hadn't realised that one of the earliest triggers for the change in US policy which led to the Marshall plan, was the decision by the Attlee government in Feb 1947 to end support for the Greek government's war against communist insurgents.

    And while the US determined to rebuild the economies of Western Europe, we were still blowing up German shipyards in 1949.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952

    DavidL said:

    biggles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL

    Never give in to these people. You give an inch and before you know it everything is cancelled / problematic.
    The activists are basically objecting to BF being an investment company.

    ...“The assertion that we have significant amounts of money in the occupied Palestinian territories is offensively misleading. Baillie Gifford is a large investor in several multinational technology companies, including Amazon, Nvidia and Meta. Demanding divestment from these global companies, used by millions of people around the world, is unreasonable and serves no purpose. Much as it would be unreasonable to demand authors boycott Instagram or stop selling books on Amazon.”

    Baillie Gifford was also not a “significant fossil fuel investor”, Thomas said. “Only 2% of our clients’ money is invested in companies with some business related to fossil fuels. We invest far more in companies helping drive the transition to clean energy.”..
    This is my point. They are rarely if ever good faith actors, they despise the capitalist system, it must be torn down. One of the XR founder was honest about it at the beginning, that climate change cause was just a vehicle to help them achieve this by tapping into wider public concerns about the environment.
    I have a coal fire. Am I….. cancelled?
    Sorry, who are you?
    He is on The List for conviction, followed by involuntary cremation.

    On a coal fire.
    It is now illegal to sell coal in closed sacks (although now I think about it are garages still doing that?) so what all the coal merchants do is cut open the tops of the sacks and proceed as usual.

    Also, in case anyone thought the cost of living/energy crisis wasn't hitting home, a sack of coal which cost £8 pre-Covid today costs around £20 (actually more but that's the only coal that can be bought).
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    edited June 7

    I don't fancy Penny Mourdant job this evening. It bad enough having 6 others gang up on you in a debate over your record in government, now what does she do about Sunak decision?

    "The Prime Minister has many demands on his time and has to make difficult decisions about how to use it, while it's not the decision I would have made I don't think it remotely compares to Farage's support for Putin. You would have chosen to abandon Europe to the Nazis wouldn't you Nigel, just as you would abandon Ukraine to Putin today."
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837

    pigeon said:

    I am just home from work and errands in town. What has Sunak done now?

    In other news, I hear that Labour has, if I understand the details correctly, promised to revive the Help to Buy scheme (slightly different name this time, but same DNA) and make it permanent. If anyone ever doubted that one of the principle functions of the British state is to ensure ever-rising house prices, there's your proof.

    This guy explains it well, from a few months ago when Tories floated similar idea.

    99% Mortgages Are A Terrible Idea.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGgA_C7znwY
    I think we all know it's a bloody terrible idea from the socio-economic POV, the Government underwriting a load of sub-prime mortgage debt in order to increase competition for an insufficient supply of property, to the benefit of existing owners. But if you appreciate that the politicians like to pretend they care about the young whilst lavishing all the real benefits on the old, as part of the endless bidding war over the grey vote, then it makes total sense.

    I hope that what we're going to get out of Labour is substantial change, rather than more of the same with a few cosmetic flourishes, but this kind of nonsense doesn't inspire confidence.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    There’s no mechanism to have another leadership election.

    There must a mechanism to at least appoint a new one. What if the leader died during an election campaign, for example?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,747
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    ToryJim said:

    boulay said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    12m
    Rishi Sunak says the issue shouldn’t be politicised and we should focus on the veterans. There was supposed to be a campaign pause for D-Day. He broke it, left the veterans, and came home for a political interview.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Um, he filmed an interview that wasn’t to be aired during D-day events and so clearly didn’t do any campaigning.

    The only reason people are aware he did an interview for the campaign is because of people wetting their pants about him missing part of the D-day commemorations. So he respected the campaigning pause - it was others who turned it into part of the campaign.
    That’s not how people will see it. He didn’t have time in his diary for veterans of D Day but could find the time to do a campaign interview. And his excuse that he did the British events but not the non-British one is just staggering. The liberation of Nazi occupied Europe was a joint endeavour, the commemoration of it should be too. Any PM who doesn’t get that instinctively deserves everything he gets.
    He didn’t have time for veterans except the one he pushed along in his wheelchair, the ones he met, addressed and quoted and praised at the ceremony he attended.

    Now I know I’m one of probably three people on this site who didn’t stop everything yesterday and devote the day to watching D-day, and I apologise for that, but I’m guessing the veterans cared more about the king being there, about actually being there themselves and getting the thanks from the ordinary people.

    I can’t imagine any of them knew who was actually attending the main ceremony. So let’s get someone to ask them - after all, it’s about them and their comrades. If they really are offended then Sunak needs to step down, if they say they don’t care, it’s not about politicians then we move on. Fair enough?


    I'm looking forward to the 100th anniversary of D-Day, when politicians will have to kneel down upon the Holy Sands, bare their back and flagellate themselves with the Sacred Barbed Wire Of Omaha. Anyone seen as not showing enough reverence will immediatey be tied to a Czech hedgehog, ready to be claimed by the next tide.
    Quite right too. I mean, I know most people who are hammering Sunak woke up early yesterday, faced towards Normandy and saluted at the time of the first landings then spent the day in sorrowful contemplation whilst watching Whoever has replaced Huw Edward’s looking mournful whilst weeping into their tissues.

    I know they refrained from anything frivolous but I think of the words of my grandfather who survived the war, who was bombing Normandy from D-day onwards, to go and enjoy every day and don’t take it all too seriously because you don’t know when it’s over.

    He lost two brothers in the war and would have found the performative outrage seriously embarrassing and possibly offensive in itself because the vast majority of the outrage isn’t because they hold these incredibly deep values and feelings for those who died but because it makes one side look bad and them better.
    I think most people here are hammering Sunak purely for his suicidal stupidity.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL

    Never give in to these people. You give an inch and before you know it everything is cancelled / problematic.
    The activists are basically objecting to BF being an investment company.

    ...“The assertion that we have significant amounts of money in the occupied Palestinian territories is offensively misleading. Baillie Gifford is a large investor in several multinational technology companies, including Amazon, Nvidia and Meta. Demanding divestment from these global companies, used by millions of people around the world, is unreasonable and serves no purpose. Much as it would be unreasonable to demand authors boycott Instagram or stop selling books on Amazon.”

    Baillie Gifford was also not a “significant fossil fuel investor”, Thomas said. “Only 2% of our clients’ money is invested in companies with some business related to fossil fuels. We invest far more in companies helping drive the transition to clean energy.”..
    This is my point. They are rarely if ever good faith actors, they despise the capitalist system, it must be torn down. I bet we all indirectly have 2% of our pension etc invested in these areas.

    One of the XR founder was honest about it at the beginning, that climate change cause was just a vehicle to help them achieve this by tapping into wider public concerns about the environment.

    This is what they are doing here, leveraging fossil fuels and Israel.
    XR are a bunch of risibles.
    Anyone serious about action on climate change should share that opinion.
    At some point, assuming that the science is broadly sound, then combining this with the actual current facts and only possible trajectory of CO2 emissions a particular thing has to change, and it will embarrass a lot of people. It is this:

    There is no route whatsoever out of very substantial global warming as a result of actions past, present and immediate future. None of this is stoppable.

    If the science is correct, the immediate issue is how to plan for and deal with the realities of this fact.


    This has been true for some years, but people cling to the myth that 'we have five (insert similar number) years to save the world by abolishing oil and gas'.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,863

    Cookie said:

    Anyoneknow what the record number of posts in a thread is?

    Are we making an attempt on the record?

    But the big long threads seem to be working well for discussion though? In relation to days with lots of threads to jump across to, that can be discussion(s) killer, this feels okay?

    But editors also need to be mindful lots of lurkers come for the quality and independent thoughts in the headers, i suspect.

    A focus on quality not quantity of headers, and longer threads for discussion seems good balance to me.
    In fairness to the editors, OGH has stepped down, TSE is off sick and Robert lives in another timezone. It's not surprising if we have to talk amongst ourselves for a little longer than usual.
    The depleted editorial team should use OGH's old tricks of starting a thread every time he saw a tweet about a new opinion poll, and when he didn't, regularly starting generic Nighthawks threads. We do not need the editors to spend the whole day crafting thousand-word headers.
    I wonder if there isn't a long standing respected member who could step up to being on the editorial team? How did TSE get his place?
    Bribery? Blackmail? Befriending OGH at the occasional in-person meetings we used to hold?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    @christopherhope

    LATEST

    Popstar Holly Valance holds crunch last minute talks with Reform UK to stand against Tory chairman Richard Holden in election.
    She must decide by 4pm today.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,602
    Nigelb said:

    In other WWII related news, I hadn't realised that one of the earliest triggers for the change in US policy which led to the Marshall plan, was the decision by the Attlee government in Feb 1947 to end support for the Greek government's war against communist insurgents.

    And while the US determined to rebuild the economies of Western Europe, we were still blowing up German shipyards in 1949.

    In retrospect a policy of German deindustrialisation would have been a visionary approach to tackling climate change.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    I wouldn't be surprised if the media aren't contacting the veterans Sunak did his spoons PR stunt with for their opinion on the story.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    TOPPING said:

    OK NEW D-DAY NEWS

    My postie just arrived. Shaved head, tats everywhere you look, including one of those ones with a bulldog holding a union jack or maybe wearing one I didn't look to closely.

    Came over, handed me my post, left.

    Not. A. Word. about Normandy.

    DYOR and bet accordingly.

    Ah so it's attained the "goes without saying" level of horror. Oh dear, awful for Sunak.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,077
    maaarsh said:

    Nigelb said:

    I don't fancy Penny Mourdant job this evening. It bad enough having 6 others gang up on you in a debate over your record in government, now what does she do about Sunak decision?

    Go in studs up on Farage.

    And let the PM speak for himself.
    What does that even look like? Calling him a racist isn't going to fly with the voters they're fighting over.
    But Trump is Farage´s big mate, and about as popular as norovirus with most people in this country, then there is the questionable history with Russia Today, the who paid the Bad Boys of Brexit, and admit it, Nigel you prefer Red wine to Bitter etc etc
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Scott_xP said:

    @christopherhope

    LATEST

    Popstar Holly Valance holds crunch last minute talks with Reform UK to stand against Tory chairman Richard Holden in election.
    She must decide by 4pm today.

    At least she won’t be able to criticise Sunak for being married to a billionaire. I knew there would be some good news for Rishi today.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    glw said:

    I have to say it will be bloody hilarious if the Tories have one more leadership change before the general election.

    Presumably they can have a new leader while Sunak remains PM, as the two posts don't have to be held by the same person.

    Not sure that anyone would put their name forward, though ? Not the greatest risk/reward proposition.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    RobD said:

    There’s no mechanism to have another leadership election.

    There must a mechanism to at least appoint a new one. What if the leader died during an election campaign, for example?
    That would be a rather drastic option.
    There must be an easier way ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 7
    There has been a distinct lack of celeb endorsements so far. Maybe this tedious stuff will come shortly. I was fully expecting the likes of Gary Neville to be drowning on at every opportunity to vote Labour.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    ToryJim said:

    Leon said:

    MJW said:

    Leon said:

    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL

    Few things have made me angrier recently. It encapsulates everything wrong with 'radical' left-wing activism. Internally incoherent and incredibly stupid, hectoring, destroying the very things claim to value because others aren't allowed to enjoy them without paying the Danegeld, bullying, full undeserved self-righteousness, and then throw in a non-sequitur about Israel because why not? That's what's cool to shout about these days.
    And what does it achieve. Probably that some of these festivals don't go ahead. Well done Sebastian and Arabella. Top work.
    Two of the big campaigners who got all the literary festivals cancelled are Nish Kumar and Charlotte Church. Which is kinda perfect, two more objectionable twats it is hard to imagine
    Are we sure if either of them can actually read? They don’t strike me as people suffused in literature
    Harsh, but made me LOL I must admit
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @christopherhope

    LATEST

    Popstar Holly Valance holds crunch last minute talks with Reform UK to stand against Tory chairman Richard Holden in election.
    She must decide by 4pm today.

    At least she won’t be able to criticise Sunak for being married to a billionaire. I knew there would be some good news for Rishi today.
    Everybody needs good neighbours

    Sorry; not sorry
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Scott_xP said:

    @christopherhope

    LATEST

    Popstar Holly Valance holds crunch last minute talks with Reform UK to stand against Tory chairman Richard Holden in election.
    She must decide by 4pm today.

    It's Holly v The Wally
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL

    Never give in to these people. You give an inch and before you know it everything is cancelled / problematic.
    The activists are basically objecting to BF being an investment company.

    ...“The assertion that we have significant amounts of money in the occupied Palestinian territories is offensively misleading. Baillie Gifford is a large investor in several multinational technology companies, including Amazon, Nvidia and Meta. Demanding divestment from these global companies, used by millions of people around the world, is unreasonable and serves no purpose. Much as it would be unreasonable to demand authors boycott Instagram or stop selling books on Amazon.”

    Baillie Gifford was also not a “significant fossil fuel investor”, Thomas said. “Only 2% of our clients’ money is invested in companies with some business related to fossil fuels. We invest far more in companies helping drive the transition to clean energy.”..
    This is my point. They are rarely if ever good faith actors, they despise the capitalist system, it must be torn down. I bet we all indirectly have 2% of our pension etc invested in these areas.

    One of the XR founder was honest about it at the beginning, that climate change cause was just a vehicle to help them achieve this by tapping into wider public concerns about the environment.

    This is what they are doing here, leveraging fossil fuels and Israel.
    XR are a bunch of risibles.
    Anyone serious about action on climate change should share that opinion.
    At some point, assuming that the science is broadly sound, then combining this with the actual current facts and only possible trajectory of CO2 emissions a particular thing has to change, and it will embarrass a lot of people. It is this:

    There is no route whatsoever out of very substantial global warming as a result of actions past, present and immediate future. None of this is stoppable.

    If the science is correct, the immediate issue is how to plan for and deal with the realities of this fact.


    This has been true for some years, but people cling to the myth that 'we have five (insert similar number) years to save the world by abolishing oil and gas'.
    I sympathise with the idea that we need to start planning for the inevitable. The 2030s will be all about getting the UK ready.

    But the nature and scale of the damage escalates very quickly the hotter the world gets. Sure, it's some dodgy modelling and no one knows for sure, but it's as likely it could be even worse than expected than better.

    There are some interesting and rather terrifying tipping points. It's like FPTP, but for the human race.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,602
    Scott_xP said:

    @christopherhope

    LATEST

    Popstar Holly Valance holds crunch last minute talks with Reform UK to stand against Tory chairman Richard Holden in election.
    She must decide by 4pm today.

    This could start a political arms race to recruit Australian soap stars.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 7

    Scott_xP said:

    @christopherhope

    LATEST

    Popstar Holly Valance holds crunch last minute talks with Reform UK to stand against Tory chairman Richard Holden in election.
    She must decide by 4pm today.

    It's Holly v The Wally
    I think more Wally vs Wally.

    She did a long form interview a couple of months ago and it was quite painful.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986

    Scott_xP said:

    @christopherhope

    LATEST

    Popstar Holly Valance holds crunch last minute talks with Reform UK to stand against Tory chairman Richard Holden in election.
    She must decide by 4pm today.

    This could start a political arms race to recruit Australian soap stars.
    I would vote for Kylie
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Scott_xP said:

    @christopherhope

    LATEST

    Popstar Holly Valance holds crunch last minute talks with Reform UK to stand against Tory chairman Richard Holden in election.
    She must decide by 4pm today.

    That's not so much Chris Hope as Chris Morris.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Nigelb said:

    glw said:

    I have to say it will be bloody hilarious if the Tories have one more leadership change before the general election.

    Presumably they can have a new leader while Sunak remains PM, as the two posts don't have to be held by the same person.

    Not sure that anyone would put their name forward, though ? Not the greatest risk/reward proposition.
    They’d have the eternal honour of being an answer to an obscure pub quiz question.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    .

    Nigelb said:

    In other WWII related news, I hadn't realised that one of the earliest triggers for the change in US policy which led to the Marshall plan, was the decision by the Attlee government in Feb 1947 to end support for the Greek government's war against communist insurgents.

    And while the US determined to rebuild the economies of Western Europe, we were still blowing up German shipyards in 1949.

    In retrospect a policy of German deindustrialisation would have been a visionary approach to tackling climate change.
    Well that was the previous policy.

    Since the German populace were at that time subsisting on about 1000 kcal a day, its continuance would have required about 25m of them to disappear, one way or another, within a fairly short space of time.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    OK NEW D-DAY NEWS

    My postie just arrived. Shaved head, tats everywhere you look, including one of those ones with a bulldog holding a union jack or maybe wearing one I didn't look to closely.

    Came over, handed me my post, left.

    Not. A. Word. about Normandy.

    DYOR and bet accordingly.

    He (or she) has clearly got your number.
    I have never met a chatty postman, they seem in too much of a hurry.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Any last minute surprises/defections on the horizon I wonder? We’ve got under two hours to go. Tick, tick, tick….
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    OK NEW D-DAY NEWS

    My postie just arrived. Shaved head, tats everywhere you look, including one of those ones with a bulldog holding a union jack or maybe wearing one I didn't look to closely.

    Came over, handed me my post, left.

    Not. A. Word. about Normandy.

    DYOR and bet accordingly.

    He (or she) has clearly got your number.
    I have never met a chatty postman, they seem in too much of a hurry.
    Might help to explain why ours are so good at delivering to the right house number in the wrong road.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL

    Never give in to these people. You give an inch and before you know it everything is cancelled / problematic.
    The activists are basically objecting to BF being an investment company.

    ...“The assertion that we have significant amounts of money in the occupied Palestinian territories is offensively misleading. Baillie Gifford is a large investor in several multinational technology companies, including Amazon, Nvidia and Meta. Demanding divestment from these global companies, used by millions of people around the world, is unreasonable and serves no purpose. Much as it would be unreasonable to demand authors boycott Instagram or stop selling books on Amazon.”

    Baillie Gifford was also not a “significant fossil fuel investor”, Thomas said. “Only 2% of our clients’ money is invested in companies with some business related to fossil fuels. We invest far more in companies helping drive the transition to clean energy.”..
    This is my point. They are rarely if ever good faith actors, they despise the capitalist system, it must be torn down. I bet we all indirectly have 2% of our pension etc invested in these areas.

    One of the XR founder was honest about it at the beginning, that climate change cause was just a vehicle to help them achieve this by tapping into wider public concerns about the environment.

    This is what they are doing here, leveraging fossil fuels and Israel.
    XR are a bunch of risibles.
    Anyone serious about action on climate change should share that opinion.
    At some point, assuming that the science is broadly sound, then combining this with the actual current facts and only possible trajectory of CO2 emissions a particular thing has to change, and it will embarrass a lot of people. It is this:

    There is no route whatsoever out of very substantial global warming as a result of actions past, present and immediate future. None of this is stoppable.

    If the science is correct, the immediate issue is how to plan for and deal with the realities of this fact.


    This has been true for some years, but people cling to the myth that 'we have five (insert similar number) years to save the world by abolishing oil and gas'.
    I sympathise with the idea that we need to start planning for the inevitable. The 2030s will be all about getting the UK ready.

    But the nature and scale of the damage escalates very quickly the hotter the world gets. Sure, it's some dodgy modelling and no one knows for sure, but it's as likely it could be even worse than expected than better.

    There are some interesting and rather terrifying tipping points. It's like FPTP, but for the human race.
    Yes, the implication that we can therefore abandon the transition to renewables is plain wrong.
    We actually need to be accelerating that transition and planning how to adapt to significant climate change.

    Globally, the energy transition should be a net economic plus over time, which is fortunate.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Scott_xP said:

    @christopherhope

    LATEST

    Popstar Holly Valance holds crunch last minute talks with Reform UK to stand against Tory chairman Richard Holden in election.
    She must decide by 4pm today.

    This could start a political arms race to recruit Australian soap stars.
    The Tories seem to have already succumbed to Nathalie Imbroglio.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,076
    I think this all comes back to the 'Sunak is not good at politics' conclusion.

    He might do okay working in a political think-tank. But being PM is simply way above his pay grade. For that you need a political instinct that he does not possess.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    OK NEW D-DAY NEWS

    My postie just arrived. Shaved head, tats everywhere you look, including one of those ones with a bulldog holding a union jack or maybe wearing one I didn't look to closely.

    Came over, handed me my post, left.

    Not. A. Word. about Normandy.

    DYOR and bet accordingly.

    He (or she) has clearly got your number.
    I have never met a chatty postman, they seem in too much of a hurry.
    You haven't been round long.
    We have one who posts on PB.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    edited June 7
    On topic (but it will take me a while to get to it):

    Could Political Betting help people become "super-agers"? An article in the May 7th NYT describes the findings from studies in Spain and Chicago of "super-agers", old people who are especially active mentally -- for their age.

    Here, for me, is the most interesting finding: "The behaviors of some of the Chicago super-agers were similarly a surprise. Some exercised regularly, but some never had; some stuck to a Mediterranean diet, others subsisted off TV dinners; and a few of them still smoked cigarettes. However, one consistency among the group was that they tended to have strong social relationships, Dr. Rogalski said." (from an article by Dana G. Smith, titled "Peering Inside the Brains of 'Super-Agers')

    To the extent that PB helps people have "strong social relationships", it will help them age well.

    (And for the application to US politics? Social relationships have broken down in the US over recent decades, weakening families and communities. And that contributes to the widespread unhappiness in this wealthy nation, an unhappiness that is exploited by so many.)
This discussion has been closed.