Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

And From The Other Side of the Pond… – politicalbetting.com

1181921232427

Comments

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    Leon said:

    It’s high time PB woke gestapo tried to get me banned again. It’s been at least three days

    Nah, just accept you erred (we all do) and move on.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited June 7
    Nunu5 said:

    Tories are gonna miss the deadline in some seats aren't they.
    Lol

    No they won't.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    sarissa said:

    T

    I think this is up there with the Bigoted Woman in terms of GE clusterf**ks. And at least with Mrs Duffy, Brown could be partially forgiven for thinking he wasn’t being recorded….

    For Sunak / Tories, its even worse given that so far the campaign has been big on do your national service.
    This is so much worse
    Attack line for the next 24 hours -
    "Sunak wants young people to do twelve months of National Service? He can't even do twelve hours!"
    The Labour 'war room' must be great at the moment. I bet they have to pinch themselves every couple of hours to make sure they are not actually dreaming.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/article/2024/jun/07/experience-i-live-on-trains

    Is this bloke on PB and if not why not.
    Has he been to South Greenford.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,767
    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    Cicero said:

    FF43 said:

    maaarsh said:

    BobSykes said:

    I thought the low bar set by Brown in 2010 for GE campaign incompetence by a PM would never be surpassed, but Rishi is quite unbelievable in his staggering ineptitude.

    I've been broadly sympathetic to his plight and much as it pains me to do so, expecting to put a cross in the blue box despite zero prospect of a Tory hold in my ultra marginal seat even if the polls had been neck and neck.

    I'm resigned to Labour, have been for 3 years, and accept one party can't stay in power for more than 14/15 years, I'm fine with Keir as PM, dull as he'll probably be, but I'm utterly depressed at the thought of the Tories being wiped out and Labour having a stupendous majority that will keep them/ the left in power for a generation. And that I'll be totally disenfranchised if my only prospect is to vote for some Faragist rabble.

    I'm 47. I could be approaching my 70s before the country swings back to the centre right, if it ever does at all.

    I'm so depressed about this, as someone who's taken a close interest in politics for maybe 35 years. Sad.

    Tories got a 10 year majority last time, things can turn much quicker than you think.
    I admit as someone who thought Johnson had realigned politics for a generation, I was surprised how quickly it all fell apart. So we shouldn't make the same assumption about Starmer going on for ever. Nevertheless the opposite assumption is also a mistake. My impression of Starmer is he is very ambitious for a lengthy period in office and will do his utmost to win the following election.

    So Starmer might crash and burn or he might be there for years and years. Not a particularly useful assessment for a site dedicated to political predictions, I accept.
    It depends how fundamentally broken you think British politics is.

    If Starmer can stabilise the ship, get into a generally broad based recovery, then he will stay in office for a while, and the Tories can go through their usual cats in a sack fun time in the first two terms, and maybe recover for a third term.

    If Starmer can not fix things and becomes rapidly unpopular, then the whole system will become unstable. You could then see a real breakdown in politics, with the failures of our Victorian political system leading to crisis and paralysis.

    Then Putinists like Farage might well get their Trump moment and the shit really hits the fan.

    As of now, it could go either way, but the innate conservatism of the system and the country may yet stabilise things. However the slightest thing, something like an early change of Monarch for example, or some epochal disaster, might also lead to a general questioning of our entire system.

    After the abject chaos of the Tory misrule, the country needs to settle down. Certainly Farage is the last thing we need at this point, and with no real party behind him, I really do question if Reform UK Ltd. is anything more than a sophisticated astrotrurf operation.
    It is a bit unfortunate that Farage needs to come back in to politics but it is because liberal elites (including the conservative party) have failed to absorb the lessons of Brexit.
    What, that it's a failure, and trying to placate the reactionary right only makes things worse? Those lessons?
    The thing that I would observe is that popular revolts against mass immigration, particularly illegal immigration, are bringing the 'populist right' to power across Europe, and probably also back to power in the US. It seems obvious to me that it is the wrong response to describe those revolting as 'fascists' etc, try and get them cancelled, outlaw them by laws about hate speech, etc. This kind of suppression of pretty mainsteam views outside the 'liberal elite' isn't going to work. Maybe just let people speak and let them participate in the discourse, which is what Farage does by representing them.
    Is it really them that Farage is representing, or the billionaire climate sceptics who are funding Reform Ltd?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/07/who-are-the-wealthy-climate-sceptics-funding-rightwing-uk-politics
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    eek said:

    https://x.com/Psythor/status/1799008877008282042

    James O'Malley
    @Psythor
    ·
    2h
    The thing I don’t get about Rishi skipping D-Day is that it was basically his last chance to be a big, important international statesman at a major international event like that. Wouldn’t you want to do that, knowing you’ll never have another chance?

    There's also the G7 next week where the topic of conversation may well be where did you get to last week...

    He’s already checked out, IMHO.

    There is a train of thinking that he might’ve called the GE in July because he actually couldn’t bear hanging around until November. We will likely get the full story in time, but I actually wonder if he knew the game was up weeks ago and now he’s just going through the motions.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    Leon said:

    It’s high time PB woke gestapo tried to get me banned again. It’s been at least three days

    Nah, just accept you erred (we all do) and move on.
    No. Come get me
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    Cicero said:

    FF43 said:

    maaarsh said:

    BobSykes said:

    I thought the low bar set by Brown in 2010 for GE campaign incompetence by a PM would never be surpassed, but Rishi is quite unbelievable in his staggering ineptitude.

    I've been broadly sympathetic to his plight and much as it pains me to do so, expecting to put a cross in the blue box despite zero prospect of a Tory hold in my ultra marginal seat even if the polls had been neck and neck.

    I'm resigned to Labour, have been for 3 years, and accept one party can't stay in power for more than 14/15 years, I'm fine with Keir as PM, dull as he'll probably be, but I'm utterly depressed at the thought of the Tories being wiped out and Labour having a stupendous majority that will keep them/ the left in power for a generation. And that I'll be totally disenfranchised if my only prospect is to vote for some Faragist rabble.

    I'm 47. I could be approaching my 70s before the country swings back to the centre right, if it ever does at all.

    I'm so depressed about this, as someone who's taken a close interest in politics for maybe 35 years. Sad.

    Tories got a 10 year majority last time, things can turn much quicker than you think.
    I admit as someone who thought Johnson had realigned politics for a generation, I was surprised how quickly it all fell apart. So we shouldn't make the same assumption about Starmer going on for ever. Nevertheless the opposite assumption is also a mistake. My impression of Starmer is he is very ambitious for a lengthy period in office and will do his utmost to win the following election.

    So Starmer might crash and burn or he might be there for years and years. Not a particularly useful assessment for a site dedicated to political predictions, I accept.
    It depends how fundamentally broken you think British politics is.

    If Starmer can stabilise the ship, get into a generally broad based recovery, then he will stay in office for a while, and the Tories can go through their usual cats in a sack fun time in the first two terms, and maybe recover for a third term.

    If Starmer can not fix things and becomes rapidly unpopular, then the whole system will become unstable. You could then see a real breakdown in politics, with the failures of our Victorian political system leading to crisis and paralysis.

    Then Putinists like Farage might well get their Trump moment and the shit really hits the fan.

    As of now, it could go either way, but the innate conservatism of the system and the country may yet stabilise things. However the slightest thing, something like an early change of Monarch for example, or some epochal disaster, might also lead to a general questioning of our entire system.

    After the abject chaos of the Tory misrule, the country needs to settle down. Certainly Farage is the last thing we need at this point, and with no real party behind him, I really do question if Reform UK Ltd. is anything more than a sophisticated astrotrurf operation.
    It is a bit unfortunate that Farage needs to come back in to politics but it is because liberal elites (including the conservative party) have failed to absorb the lessons of Brexit.
    What, that it's a failure, and trying to placate the reactionary right only makes things worse? Those lessons?
    The thing that I would observe is that popular revolts against mass immigration, particularly illegal immigration, are bringing the 'populist right' to power across Europe, and probably also back to power in the US. It seems obvious to me that it is the wrong response to describe those revolting as 'fascists' etc, try and get them cancelled, outlaw them by laws about hate speech, etc. This kind of suppression of pretty mainsteam views outside the 'liberal elite' isn't going to work. Maybe just let people speak and let them participate in the discourse, which is what Farage does by representing them.
    Is it really them that Farage is representing, or the billionaire climate sceptics who are funding Reform Ltd?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/07/who-are-the-wealthy-climate-sceptics-funding-rightwing-uk-politics
    Yes, and Keir Starmer is a puppet of Dale Vince.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    I’m going to have an Aperol by the opera house
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 7

    WTF kind of excuse is “it was pre-arranged” anyway? Nobody cares if it was pre-arranged, it looks bad because you did it, not because of when it went into your diary.

    I cannot believe that Rishi’s comms team like him, or that he is listening to them.

    It being pre-arranged if anything makes it worse.

    Why would he have pre-arranged to abandon the services half-way through, when he had no other commitments at the time?
    You can't even pull the "My kids we sick" routine.

    When they were planning this. Did absolutely nobody in his team say, Rishi, mate, you need to stay for the whole day, its the right thing to do, besides think of all the good PR you will get from photos of glad handing world leaders and veterans.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Isabel Oakeshott
    @IsabelOakeshott
    ·
    1m
    👀 Introducing my new project! News, intelligence and analysis from the heart of the political Right. Sign up here! http://insidetheright.today


    https://x.com/IsabelOakeshott
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    purge... of the right wingers
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,493

    Cookie said:

    Anyoneknow what the record number of posts in a thread is?

    Are we making an attempt on the record?

    But the big long threads seem to be working well for discussion though? In relation to days with lots of threads to jump across to, that can be discussion(s) killer, this feels okay?

    But editors also need to be mindful lots of lurkers come for the quality and independent thoughts in the headers, i suspect.

    A focus on quality not quantity of headers, and longer threads for discussion seems good balance to me.
    In fairness to the editors, OGH has stepped down, TSE is off sick and Robert lives in another timezone. It's not surprising if we have to talk amongst ourselves for a little longer than usual.
    The depleted editorial team should use OGH's old tricks of starting a thread every time he saw a tweet about a new opinion poll, and when he didn't, regularly starting generic Nighthawks threads. We do not need the editors to spend the whole day crafting thousand-word headers.
    I wasn’t offering criticism cookie, but when situations like you describe happen, sometimes it reveals different ways of operating can be good too?

    Theres numerous elements to the site. As a live news blog, learn things here first. A lot of lurkers come for the unique and interesting headers, many of which come from PBers and gives headers that unique range of different independent voices, and then there is the discussion element, which is very liberal minded and light touch in how its moderated. A unique blend of things.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    I think this is up there with the Bigoted Woman in terms of GE clusterf**ks. And at least with Mrs Duffy, Brown could be partially forgiven for thinking he wasn’t being recorded….

    And she was bigoted. Which many people seem to forget. "Where are they all flocking from?"
    The actual quote was something like “all these Eastern Europeans; where are they flocking from?”, so her answer was there all along.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    algarkirk said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/article/2024/jun/07/experience-i-live-on-trains

    Is this bloke on PB and if not why not.
    Has he been to South Greenford.

    I hope he has more success booking sleepers than me. I have been trying to book the Nightjet from Paris to Vienna in September but the tickets are not yet listed beyond 10 August. No indication of when booking for September will open up :(
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s high time PB woke gestapo tried to get me banned again. It’s been at least three days

    Nah, just accept you erred (we all do) and move on.
    No. Come get me
    No, you're not worth it.

    I'm not surprised at your racism, its not the first and won't be your last.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    Isabel Oakeshott
    @IsabelOakeshott
    ·
    1m
    👀 Introducing my new project! News, intelligence and analysis from the heart of the political Right. Sign up here! http://insidetheright.today


    https://x.com/IsabelOakeshott

    Minority hobby
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058

    I am parking my tanks on the Tory lawn. The absolute outrage amongst Tory voters and even members continues up here. So if they want a full time MP, a local candidate to stop the SNP, that choice is now me...
    https://x.com/ianincyaak/status/1799037268507967998

    No dog for scale. 0/10
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098

    eek said:

    https://x.com/Psythor/status/1799008877008282042

    James O'Malley
    @Psythor
    ·
    2h
    The thing I don’t get about Rishi skipping D-Day is that it was basically his last chance to be a big, important international statesman at a major international event like that. Wouldn’t you want to do that, knowing you’ll never have another chance?

    There's also the G7 next week where the topic of conversation may well be where did you get to last week...

    He’s already checked out, IMHO.

    There is a train of thinking that he might’ve called the GE in July because he actually couldn’t bear hanging around until November. We will likely get the full story in time, but I actually wonder if he knew the game was up weeks ago and now he’s just going through the motions.
    That doesn't chime with his 'up for it' debate performance though.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Starmer on the D-Day celebrations -

    "And this election is about character, who you have in your mind’s eye when you make decisions.

    And for me there was only one place I was going to be, which is there to pay my respects to the veterans.

    And to say thank you to them on behalf of all of us, including my young children who, as I said to many of the veterans, were pretty carefree yesterday going to school. But that was down to their sacrifice, and the sacrifice particularly of those colleagues of theirs who didn’t make it back.

    I made a choice yesterday about what I would do as leader of the Labour party and as a candidate to be prime minister and I knew I should be there. This was not a discussion.

    It was my duty to be there, it was my privilege to be there.

    Privilege is a word that is probably overused in politics but I felt privileged to be able to be with veterans who had fought on D-day against the odds to liberate Europe and to allow me to grow up in peace and freedom and democracy."

    Of course he would say that - but he knows that this is what to say in the situation.

    Ah yes the veterans.. yet he's quite happy to let Northern Ireland veterans in their 70s and 80s be pursued through the courts while PIRA vets walk free.

    Funny old world.
    I’m sure there are Tory researchers scanning the internet for prospective Labour ministers’ comments on the armed forces in the past right now. Won’t be surprised if there is the odd statement that doesn’t fit the respect for our servicemen stance.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    Things have come to a pretty pass when PB Righties are arguing over what flavour of crap Sunak is.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978

    Isabel Oakeshott
    @IsabelOakeshott
    ·
    1m
    👀 Introducing my new project! News, intelligence and analysis from the heart of the political Right. Sign up here! http://insidetheright.today


    https://x.com/IsabelOakeshott

    Minority hobby
    I think it is turning into quite a profitable one for journalists these days, far better than writing for newspapers (and also TalkTV are busto).
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    purge... of the right wingers

    I do get pissed off by these PB one-liners with absolutely zero context.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    12m
    Rishi Sunak says the issue shouldn’t be politicised and we should focus on the veterans. There was supposed to be a campaign pause for D-Day. He broke it, left the veterans, and came home for a political interview.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950

    Isabel Oakeshott
    @IsabelOakeshott
    ·
    1m
    👀 Introducing my new project! News, intelligence and analysis from the heart of the political Right. Sign up here! http://insidetheright.today


    https://x.com/IsabelOakeshott

    That would make a refreshing change.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    edited June 7
    Leon said:

    I’m going to have an Aperol by the opera house

    Deleted: dyslexai memont
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/07/incoming-ministers-will-face-uk-public-services-on-brink-of-collapse

    This feels like a more important news story today than precisely when Sunak departed Northern France. Or am I the only person on PB who uses public services?

    The Tories are somewhere in the 20s, or just below, in the opinion polls. The very hardened core vote. Most of the people who would change their vote due to a public services crisis have done so long ago.

    If you are interested in how the election campaign might develop from here, then it kinda makes sense to think more about an issue that might compel some of the hard core Tory vote to switch.

    We're looking here at factors that will make the difference between 400 and 500 Labour seats, not between a hung Parliament and a Labour majority.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,555

    WTF kind of excuse is “it was pre-arranged” anyway? Nobody cares if it was pre-arranged, it looks bad because you did it, not because of when it went into your diary.

    I cannot believe that Rishi’s comms team like him, or that he is listening to them.

    "It was pre-arranged to feck off early"
    Whoever didn't block D-Day from his diary is not fit for purpose.

    That he didn't spot it himself - ditto.

    If we had gone from Boris to Penny Mordaunt, the Conservative Party - and the country - would have been in a better place. No way Penny would have shown such a lack of political acumen.

    There are a bunch of MPs who voted for Truss who will have a long, long time to reflect on their stupidity. With that on their CV, hard to see how those ex-MPs who voted for her get another job any time soon.

    I feel sorry for a core of Tory MPs who have been bloody good constituency MPs, but who have been undermined in getting re-elected by too many of their colleagues, from the top down.

    Now we have Starmer drifting in to Downing Street, effectively unopposed. Which wouldn't be quite so bad if hadn't shown himself to be so utterly useless in that first debte. A lifelong barrister who can't make the case for voting for him? He could be on Trump's team of lawyers, being that bad.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,493
    Nunu5 said:

    Will Boris stand? That would throw the cat among the Tory leader pigeons (and land my bet).

    Watch this space for imminent news on that one. 🙂
    Because you have info or because of the deadline
    Becuase of the deadline, becuase he wants it and would be shoe in for next leader, and because it would blast current news headlines into oblivion.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    I hope we don't see a "Labour landslide is down to Rishi Sunak dissing our WW2 heritage" sentiment taking root.

    Agree, but I hope we don't get a sentiment that the Labour landslide was down to any one factor. There are hundreds, and every Tory-Lab switch, or Tory-other switch, or Tory-DNV switch will have been driven by different reasons - cost of living or partygate or immigration or Pinchergate or the post office or the cancellation of HS2 or Truss's appointment or Truss's removal or the height of Sunak's trousers or... There's very rarely a single reason.
    For me, Truss is when this election became unwinnable for the Cons. But at that point there remained a wide spread of realistic possible outcomes. Now it would appear it's a Blair type landslide for SKS or a win so big as to need a new word. As you say, there's no single reason for something like this. There's loads of reasons.
    In November 2021 Paterson left the Commons after Boris had tried to protect him from wrongdoing. In that month the polls turned red. They have never recovered. That event began the sense that this was one rule for them and another for us. Partygate enforced the idea soon afterwards. Sunak was in a senior position at those times, and was far too late resigning - July 2022. Truss made sure that the disaster was about political acumen as well as ethical character. It will take a Robert Peel to put it right.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s high time PB woke gestapo tried to get me banned again. It’s been at least three days

    Nah, just accept you erred (we all do) and move on.
    No. Come get me
    No, you're not worth it.

    I'm not surprised at your racism, its not the first and won't be your last.

    I see your point but you’re a stupid fat dickless loser in a Barratt home new build in Warrington. So we also have to take that into consideration, surely, as it means you are SO low in the pecking order of life you are desperate for the tiniest scintilla of perceived superiority, moral or intellectual, even when it is clearly bogus, as here

    YOU’LL FIND ME AT THE MOZART CAFE
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Leon said:

    It’s high time PB woke gestapo tried to get me banned again. It’s been at least three days

    We haven't bothered because we assumed you'd already left. Don't know why, a distinct lack of breakfast, lunch and dinner photos perhaps.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    Things have come to a pretty pass when PB Righties are arguing over what flavour of crap Sunak is.

    Trying to remember whether Brown was similarly dismissed by lefties back in 2010?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950

    WTF kind of excuse is “it was pre-arranged” anyway? Nobody cares if it was pre-arranged, it looks bad because you did it, not because of when it went into your diary.

    I cannot believe that Rishi’s comms team like him, or that he is listening to them.

    "It was pre-arranged to feck off early"
    Whoever didn't block D-Day from his diary is not fit for purpose.

    That he didn't spot it himself - ditto.

    If we had gone from Boris to Penny Mordaunt, the Conservative Party - and the country - would have been in a better place. No way Penny would have shown such a lack of political acumen.

    There are a bunch of MPs who voted for Truss who will have a long, long time to reflect on their stupidity. With that on their CV, hard to see how those ex-MPs who voted for her get another job any time soon.

    I feel sorry for a core of Tory MPs who have been bloody good constituency MPs, but who have been undermined in getting re-elected by too many of their colleagues, from the top down.

    Now we have Starmer drifting in to Downing Street, effectively unopposed. Which wouldn't be quite so bad if hadn't shown himself to be so utterly useless in that first debte. A lifelong barrister who can't make the case for voting for him? He could be on Trump's team of lawyers, being that bad.
    Penny would have emerged from the waves in a WWII era dive suit holding a trident.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Isabel Oakeshott
    @IsabelOakeshott
    ·
    1m
    👀 Introducing my new project! News, intelligence and analysis from the heart of the political Right. Sign up here! http://insidetheright.today


    https://x.com/IsabelOakeshott

    BREAKING: Source-shopper 'Shott creates site nobody gives a shit about
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 7
    Sunak in the pool interview keeps saying "I returned home before the International Leader Event"...

    The obvious thing anybody with half a brain would say is, but aren't you an international leader (for the moment). Again PR team, they are useless, you are just reinforcing that you didn't just skip some irrelevant bit at the end, you skipped the International Leaders Event.

    All HYFUD spinning about well it wasn't really an international leader event, it was for head of state etc, Sunak just reinforced in the interview to the public who don't follow the minute details that he skipped an event for international leaders.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,812
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s high time PB woke gestapo tried to get me banned again. It’s been at least three days

    Nah, just accept you erred (we all do) and move on.
    No. Come get me
    No, you're not worth it.

    I'm not surprised at your racism, its not the first and won't be your last.

    I see your point but you’re a stupid fat dickless loser in a Barratt home new build in Warrington. So we also have to take that into consideration, surely, as it means you are SO low in the pecking order of life you are desperate for the tiniest scintilla of perceived superiority, moral or intellectual, even when it is clearly bogus, as here

    YOU’LL FIND ME AT THE MOZART CAFE
    Don't take on Trump for the most toddler like boomer, you will only lose.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    If the Tory press gives this Sunak story the coverage they would give it if a Labour PM had done the same, I reckon we're looking at a total Tory meltdown in the polls. But it is a big if.

    Calm down.

    I love D-Day and Operation Overlord and even I didn't give a fuck about the 80th anniversary today.

    It has zero cut through.
    TOPPING said:

    We haven't heard from Casino on this yet. Perhaps he is still in a darkened room with a damp towel over his head.

    Not a problem, he assured us in his usual pompous manner that it would have "zero cut through"
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986

    I feel sorry for a core of Tory MPs who have been bloody good constituency MPs, but who have been undermined in getting re-elected by too many of their colleagues, from the top down.

    Shame you didn't feel the same for the many even better MPs who were booted by your boy, BoZo.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s high time PB woke gestapo tried to get me banned again. It’s been at least three days

    Nah, just accept you erred (we all do) and move on.
    No. Come get me
    No, you're not worth it.

    I'm not surprised at your racism, its not the first and won't be your last.

    I see your point but you’re a stupid fat dickless loser in a Barratt home new build in Warrington. So we also have to take that into consideration, surely, as it means you are SO low in the pecking order of life you are desperate for the tiniest scintilla of perceived superiority, moral or intellectual, even when it is clearly bogus, as here

    YOU’LL FIND ME AT THE MOZART CAFE
    Love a bit of right on right action me
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,574
    Dura_Ace said:

    Focus Group of One Alert. I've been waiting in all day for my new garage door openers to be delivered. They just arrived and after the van driver said Ingerland had "no fucking chance" in the Euros his parting quip was that "Richy" Sunak was a wanker. He actually pronounced it /ˈrɪʧi/ which would have gratified Scott_XP and further enraged Casino. Were such a thing possible.

    D-Daygate cut through = 3 feet high and rising.

    I was expecting you to consider the reaction here and elsewhere to Sunak leaving early to be a little Gammony.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    One odd thing about my voting experience this morning. After all the controversy over voter ID in Britain, abs with the much-discussed knowledge that it was normal for voter ID to be retired on other European countries, I was very prepared to provide ID when I voted in the Irish local elections this morning.

    But then I wasn't asked for my ID at all.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,224
    edited June 7

    eek said:

    https://x.com/Psythor/status/1799008877008282042

    James O'Malley
    @Psythor
    ·
    2h
    The thing I don’t get about Rishi skipping D-Day is that it was basically his last chance to be a big, important international statesman at a major international event like that. Wouldn’t you want to do that, knowing you’ll never have another chance?

    There's also the G7 next week where the topic of conversation may well be where did you get to last week...

    He’s already checked out, IMHO.

    There is a train of thinking that he might’ve called the GE in July because he actually couldn’t bear hanging around until November. We will likely get the full story in time, but I actually wonder if he knew the game was up weeks ago and now he’s just going through the motions.
    Tortoise have a good podcast on why July (and why announce in the rain without an umbrella). https://pca.st/episode/2aaec89c-76bd-4fe6-b8eb-3d3f4373c3ed

    TLDL; Sunak has wanted an early election since the start of the year, which backs up your theory.

    And the lack of umbrella was because he didn't think he could hold one himself for that long, and having an aide hold one would look too entitled.

    What i don't understand is why he didn't make use of one of these (full disclosure, I've dreamed of owning one since I discovered geekery age 4 1/3): https://amzn.eu/d/c5vYSkX
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    OllyT said:

    If the Tory press gives this Sunak story the coverage they would give it if a Labour PM had done the same, I reckon we're looking at a total Tory meltdown in the polls. But it is a big if.

    Calm down.

    I love D-Day and Operation Overlord and even I didn't give a fuck about the 80th anniversary today.

    It has zero cut through.
    TOPPING said:

    We haven't heard from Casino on this yet. Perhaps he is still in a darkened room with a damp towel over his head.

    Not a problem, he assured us in his usual pompous manner that it would have "zero cut through"
    TBF, the BBC did its absolute best to ignore the story for as long as they could.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,555
    Scott_xP said:

    I feel sorry for a core of Tory MPs who have been bloody good constituency MPs, but who have been undermined in getting re-elected by too many of their colleagues, from the top down.

    Shame you didn't feel the same for the many even better MPs who were booted by your boy, BoZo.
    Except they weren't.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    WTF kind of excuse is “it was pre-arranged” anyway? Nobody cares if it was pre-arranged, it looks bad because you did it, not because of when it went into your diary.

    I cannot believe that Rishi’s comms team like him, or that he is listening to them.

    "It was pre-arranged to feck off early"
    Whoever didn't block D-Day from his diary is not fit for purpose.

    That he didn't spot it himself - ditto.

    If we had gone from Boris to Penny Mordaunt, the Conservative Party - and the country - would have been in a better place. No way Penny would have shown such a lack of political acumen.

    There are a bunch of MPs who voted for Truss who will have a long, long time to reflect on their stupidity. With that on their CV, hard to see how those ex-MPs who voted for her get another job any time soon.

    I feel sorry for a core of Tory MPs who have been bloody good constituency MPs, but who have been undermined in getting re-elected by too many of their colleagues, from the top down.

    Now we have Starmer drifting in to Downing Street, effectively unopposed. Which wouldn't be quite so bad if hadn't shown himself to be so utterly useless in that first debte. A lifelong barrister who can't make the case for voting for him? He could be on Trump's team of lawyers, being that bad.
    Penny would have emerged from the waves in a WWII era dive suit holding a trident.
    Ed Davey, no?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986

    Scott_xP said:

    I feel sorry for a core of Tory MPs who have been bloody good constituency MPs, but who have been undermined in getting re-elected by too many of their colleagues, from the top down.

    Shame you didn't feel the same for the many even better MPs who were booted by your boy, BoZo.
    Except they weren't.
    And this, in a single phrase, is why the party you still claim to support is so fucked.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    purge... of the right wingers

    I do get pissed off by these PB one-liners with absolutely zero context.
    Sorry - its was clearing a draft!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    edited June 7

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s high time PB woke gestapo tried to get me banned again. It’s been at least three days

    Nah, just accept you erred (we all do) and move on.
    No. Come get me
    No, you're not worth it.

    I'm not surprised at your racism, its not the first and won't be your last.

    I see your point but you’re a stupid fat dickless loser in a Barratt home new build in Warrington. So we also have to take that into consideration, surely, as it means you are SO low in the pecking order of life you are desperate for the tiniest scintilla of perceived superiority, moral or intellectual, even when it is clearly bogus, as here

    YOU’LL FIND ME AT THE MOZART CAFE
    Don't take on Trump for the most toddler like boomer, you will only lose.
    Ah, you’re trying to do a “humour”

    Awwwww
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    darkage said:

    Cicero said:

    FF43 said:

    maaarsh said:

    BobSykes said:

    I thought the low bar set by Brown in 2010 for GE campaign incompetence by a PM would never be surpassed, but Rishi is quite unbelievable in his staggering ineptitude.

    I've been broadly sympathetic to his plight and much as it pains me to do so, expecting to put a cross in the blue box despite zero prospect of a Tory hold in my ultra marginal seat even if the polls had been neck and neck.

    I'm resigned to Labour, have been for 3 years, and accept one party can't stay in power for more than 14/15 years, I'm fine with Keir as PM, dull as he'll probably be, but I'm utterly depressed at the thought of the Tories being wiped out and Labour having a stupendous majority that will keep them/ the left in power for a generation. And that I'll be totally disenfranchised if my only prospect is to vote for some Faragist rabble.

    I'm 47. I could be approaching my 70s before the country swings back to the centre right, if it ever does at all.

    I'm so depressed about this, as someone who's taken a close interest in politics for maybe 35 years. Sad.

    Tories got a 10 year majority last time, things can turn much quicker than you think.
    I admit as someone who thought Johnson had realigned politics for a generation, I was surprised how quickly it all fell apart. So we shouldn't make the same assumption about Starmer going on for ever. Nevertheless the opposite assumption is also a mistake. My impression of Starmer is he is very ambitious for a lengthy period in office and will do his utmost to win the following election.

    So Starmer might crash and burn or he might be there for years and years. Not a particularly useful assessment for a site dedicated to political predictions, I accept.
    It depends how fundamentally broken you think British politics is.

    If Starmer can stabilise the ship, get into a generally broad based recovery, then he will stay in office for a while, and the Tories can go through their usual cats in a sack fun time in the first two terms, and maybe recover for a third term.

    If Starmer can not fix things and becomes rapidly unpopular, then the whole system will become unstable. You could then see a real breakdown in politics, with the failures of our Victorian political system leading to crisis and paralysis.

    Then Putinists like Farage might well get their Trump moment and the shit really hits the fan.

    As of now, it could go either way, but the innate conservatism of the system and the country may yet stabilise things. However the slightest thing, something like an early change of Monarch for example, or some epochal disaster, might also lead to a general questioning of our entire system.

    After the abject chaos of the Tory misrule, the country needs to settle down. Certainly Farage is the last thing we need at this point, and with no real party behind him, I really do question if Reform UK Ltd. is anything more than a sophisticated astrotrurf operation.
    It is a bit unfortunate that Farage needs to come back in to politics but it is because liberal elites (including the conservative party) have failed to absorb the lessons of Brexit.
    The lessons of Brexit presumably being never do anything so stupid again? There's a reason why no-one is talking about Brexit success in this election campaign
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 7
    Scott_xP said:

    OllyT said:

    If the Tory press gives this Sunak story the coverage they would give it if a Labour PM had done the same, I reckon we're looking at a total Tory meltdown in the polls. But it is a big if.

    Calm down.

    I love D-Day and Operation Overlord and even I didn't give a fuck about the 80th anniversary today.

    It has zero cut through.
    TOPPING said:

    We haven't heard from Casino on this yet. Perhaps he is still in a darkened room with a damp towel over his head.

    Not a problem, he assured us in his usual pompous manner that it would have "zero cut through"
    TBF, the BBC did its absolute best to ignore the story for as long as they could.
    They really didn't. All the MSM except the Mirror waited until the day ended to start to cover it*, because I presume they didn't want to be seen as throwing a political hit on D-Day, its looks at Sunak level to do that. Then at about 1am, the paper websites start to run it, even the Telegraph. Then the BBC editors get in early doors and take their cue from this.

    * twatter doesn't count.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    WTF kind of excuse is “it was pre-arranged” anyway? Nobody cares if it was pre-arranged, it looks bad because you did it, not because of when it went into your diary.

    I cannot believe that Rishi’s comms team like him, or that he is listening to them.

    "It was pre-arranged to feck off early"
    Whoever didn't block D-Day from his diary is not fit for purpose.

    That he didn't spot it himself - ditto.

    If we had gone from Boris to Penny Mordaunt, the Conservative Party - and the country - would have been in a better place. No way Penny would have shown such a lack of political acumen.

    There are a bunch of MPs who voted for Truss who will have a long, long time to reflect on their stupidity. With that on their CV, hard to see how those ex-MPs who voted for her get another job any time soon.

    I feel sorry for a core of Tory MPs who have been bloody good constituency MPs, but who have been undermined in getting re-elected by too many of their colleagues, from the top down.

    Now we have Starmer drifting in to Downing Street, effectively unopposed. Which wouldn't be quite so bad if hadn't shown himself to be so utterly useless in that first debte. A lifelong barrister who can't make the case for voting for him? He could be on Trump's team of lawyers, being that bad.
    Backbenchers get to choose the two best people to be leader. They are accountable as a body if they don't choose two outstanding candidates.

    Backbenchers in a majority governing party are in fact the supreme authority in this country. They have chosen to let their leaders get on with disaster after disaster, political and ethical. They decided to be vote fodder instead of Burkean representatives. Tough.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    edited June 7

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    12m
    Rishi Sunak says the issue shouldn’t be politicised and we should focus on the veterans. There was supposed to be a campaign pause for D-Day. He broke it, left the veterans, and came home for a political interview.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Um, he filmed an interview that wasn’t to be aired during D-day events and so clearly didn’t do any campaigning so didn’t “break” any pause.

    The only reason people are aware he did an interview for the campaign is because of people wetting their pants about him missing part of the D-day commemorations. So he respected the campaigning pause - it was others who turned it into part of the campaign.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098

    Things have come to a pretty pass when PB Righties are arguing over what flavour of crap Sunak is.

    Trying to remember whether Brown was similarly dismissed by lefties back in 2010?
    Not as I recall.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    edited June 7
    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cicero said:

    Help to Buy is to getting a rebrand as Freedom to Buy...

    https://news.sky.com/story/labour-to-offer-freedom-to-buy-for-young-people-with-mortgage-guarantee-scheme-13148889

    Permanent very low deposits guaranteed by government has other negatives above the risk of bad loans.

    What percentage of council houses sold are still in the hands of owner occupiers, as opposed to private rental companies?
    40% of right to buy homes are now rented out privately.

    PB likes to ignore the vast shifts in housing tenure in the last 14 years, but ultimately it's the reason why the country has become more unequal and why the number of natural Conservative voters has fallen. There is no evidence that a mass private housebuilding programme would reverse the trend and increase ownership - all the new homes will simply be hoovered up by those who have accumulated large savings.
    That shows a gross ignorance of economics and follows your typical lame excuse-making for NIMBYism.

    The reason for the vast shifts in housing tenure is the lack of building supply. If supply increases that will be reversed.

    And of course in a healthy free housing economy typically 10% of homes are unoccupied [for very good reasons] which means homes in poor condition or are too expensive don't get let out and the owner is left paying their bills/mortgage and taxes without a tenant paying them any rent.

    So why would those with savings snap up all homes if supply is increased and they can't let them out? It means price falls and people who want to buy to own have a choice, as well as tenants having a choice, on where to live.
    There he blows!

    New homes: 2.0 million
    Increase in households renting: 1.1 million
    Increase in households owning outright: 0.9 million
    Decrease in households with a mortgage: -0.4 million

    It would have certainly been worse without any new homes. But the idea that an increase in supply is the only intervention required is nonsense - wealth inequality is now far too great in the UK for that to suffice.
    That's been caused by the terrible shortage of new homes, meaning prices are far too high. Which is fundamental supply and demand in action.

    An increase in supply may not be the only intervention required, I never said it is, but it is absolutely 100% needed and would help to reverse the damage that has been done.

    Of course if supply increases and prices fall in real terms, then that would lower that inequality you mentioned too.
    The number of new homes has increased faster than the population, by a wide margin. It's actually a glut.

    The problem is that there are significant mismatches with where those houses are being built and where there is housing pressure. At risk of pissing off lots of PBers, here is my official assessment of LAs (bespoke assessments can be provided on request):

    YIMBY Gold award:

    Selby
    Huntingdonshire
    Mid Suffolk
    Telford and Wrekin
    West Lindsey

    NIMBY Black Spot of Barty Doom

    Pendle
    Thurrock
    Swale
    Epping Forest
    Peterborough

    Urban Excellence award: Southwark
    Rural Excellence award: West Devon, Cotswolds, Uttlesford
    Leon award: Camden, Westminster, Kensington and Chelsea (fewer houses, population falling)
    Trooper award: Tower Hamlets, Bedford, Tewkesbury (massive effort, but simply can’t keep up)
    Breeze block award: Barking and Dagenham, Slough, Leicester (massive population growth, no attempt to deal with it)
    Barty award: Copeland, Richmondshire, Caerphilly, Allerdale (population falling but f*** it more houses anyway)
    This glut is all in your head.

    The number of new homes has nowhere near kept up with demand.

    Again you show a shocking ignorance of the effects of demographics on housing requirements, talking again only of "population". 🤦‍♂️
    8.2% increase in homes
    6.1% increase in households
    6.3% increase in population
    Why are you lying?

    Your households figure is a lie. You know this, so why repeat it?

    People who are compelled to share a home as there's not enough houses are classed as one household. You know that, but you're repeating your lies anyway. 🤦‍♂️

    The idea that t here's been a lesser increase in household demand than population increase, when our demographic changes mean there's even further household pressures, is so obviously false its remarkable your following through on this outright blatant lie.
    The number of people per household has fallen, and overcrowding has fallen too.

    Edit: sorry, the population per household has risen* This is explained by immigrants being much more efficient users of households than say older people
    The number of people per household should have fallen as we have 4 million extra over 50s than we did. Who don't live with children.🤦‍♂️

    Immigration doesn't counter that.

    Your own data reveals the chronic housing shortage. Again!
    In most LAs, housing pressure is actually falling. It's only in about 100 where you see this acute problem, and they are mostly in our cities.
    Don't believe you - please provide evidence because even this week I saw issues in 3 local authorities round here..
    Absolutely.

    I'd love to know these mythical local authorities without housing shortages.
    I provided you with some examples above :)
    I have posted the infographic on this before too, once directly in reply to Bart.

    Glad you got there in the end. You have always banged on that we build plenty of homes. You always missed the point that these are not necessarily where they are needed. Glad to see that is rectified.
    That has always been the point I wanted to make.

    But even then, I suspect more housebuilding in and around London, Edinburgh etc will just serve to keep pushing those economies on, never really solve the housing crisis there. Vicious cycle.
    Sure. But what is the point of more housebuilding in areas like South Shields where the population actually contracted in between the censuses.
    In South Tyneside, the population fell while the number of households increased very slightly.

    This is where the analysis is tricky - under Bart's thinking, that means there was some housing pressure, which has some merit.

    However, I suggest that the inverse is happening - there is so little pressure on housing in S.Tyneside people can afford to live alone. I think Barty includes this effect in his definition of "pressure", which I think is a little misleading. Indeed, comparing that kind of "pressure" to that experienced by people in London is just plain wrong.

    Under his definition, housing pressure is effectively inescapable. We'd all love to live alone in a 10 bed mansion.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,555
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I feel sorry for a core of Tory MPs who have been bloody good constituency MPs, but who have been undermined in getting re-elected by too many of their colleagues, from the top down.

    Shame you didn't feel the same for the many even better MPs who were booted by your boy, BoZo.
    Except they weren't.
    And this, in a single phrase, is why the party you still claim to support is so fucked.
    Whatever...
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,988
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s high time PB woke gestapo tried to get me banned again. It’s been at least three days

    Nah, just accept you erred (we all do) and move on.
    No. Come get me
    No, you're not worth it.

    I'm not surprised at your racism, its not the first and won't be your last.

    I see your point but you’re a stupid fat dickless loser in a Barratt home new build in Warrington. So we also have to take that into consideration, surely, as it means you are SO low in the pecking order of life you are desperate for the tiniest scintilla of perceived superiority, moral or intellectual, even when it is clearly bogus, as here

    YOU’LL FIND ME AT THE MOZART CAFE
    At 10 o'clock?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 7
    maxh said:

    eek said:

    https://x.com/Psythor/status/1799008877008282042

    James O'Malley
    @Psythor
    ·
    2h
    The thing I don’t get about Rishi skipping D-Day is that it was basically his last chance to be a big, important international statesman at a major international event like that. Wouldn’t you want to do that, knowing you’ll never have another chance?

    There's also the G7 next week where the topic of conversation may well be where did you get to last week...

    He’s already checked out, IMHO.

    There is a train of thinking that he might’ve called the GE in July because he actually couldn’t bear hanging around until November. We will likely get the full story in time, but I actually wonder if he knew the game was up weeks ago and now he’s just going through the motions.
    Tortoise have a good podcast on why July (and why announce in the rain without an umbrella). https://pca.st/episode/2aaec89c-76bd-4fe6-b8eb-3d3f4373c3ed

    TLDL; Sunak has wanted an early election since the start of the year, which backs up your theory.

    And the lack of umbrella was because he didn't think he could hold one himself for that long, and having an aide hold one would look too entitled.

    What i don't understand is why he didn't make use of one of these (full disclosure, I've dreamed of owning one since I discovered geekery age 4 1/3): https://amzn.eu/d/c5vYSkX
    Originally on Sky they said they were told they would be going inside to do it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212

    WTF kind of excuse is “it was pre-arranged” anyway? Nobody cares if it was pre-arranged, it looks bad because you did it, not because of when it went into your diary.

    I cannot believe that Rishi’s comms team like him, or that he is listening to them.

    "It was pre-arranged to feck off early"
    Whoever didn't block D-Day from his diary is not fit for purpose.

    That he didn't spot it himself - ditto.

    If we had gone from Boris to Penny Mordaunt, the Conservative Party - and the country - would have been in a better place. No way Penny would have shown such a lack of political acumen.

    There are a bunch of MPs who voted for Truss who will have a long, long time to reflect on their stupidity. With that on their CV, hard to see how those ex-MPs who voted for her get another job any time soon.

    I feel sorry for a core of Tory MPs who have been bloody good constituency MPs, but who have been undermined in getting re-elected by too many of their colleagues, from the top down.

    Now we have Starmer drifting in to Downing Street, effectively unopposed. Which wouldn't be quite so bad if hadn't shown himself to be so utterly useless in that first debte. A lifelong barrister who can't make the case for voting for him? He could be on Trump's team of lawyers, being that bad.
    Penny would have emerged from the waves in a WWII era dive suit holding a trident.
    Anyone who could wear a Clammy Death suit and walk in it deserves deep respect.

    Source - have worn a modern dry suit and talked to those who used derivatives of the Sladen.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    edited June 7
    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cicero said:

    Help to Buy is to getting a rebrand as Freedom to Buy...

    https://news.sky.com/story/labour-to-offer-freedom-to-buy-for-young-people-with-mortgage-guarantee-scheme-13148889

    Permanent very low deposits guaranteed by government has other negatives above the risk of bad loans.

    What percentage of council houses sold are still in the hands of owner occupiers, as opposed to private rental companies?
    40% of right to buy homes are now rented out privately.

    PB likes to ignore the vast shifts in housing tenure in the last 14 years, but ultimately it's the reason why the country has become more unequal and why the number of natural Conservative voters has fallen. There is no evidence that a mass private housebuilding programme would reverse the trend and increase ownership - all the new homes will simply be hoovered up by those who have accumulated large savings.
    That shows a gross ignorance of economics and follows your typical lame excuse-making for NIMBYism.

    The reason for the vast shifts in housing tenure is the lack of building supply. If supply increases that will be reversed.

    And of course in a healthy free housing economy typically 10% of homes are unoccupied [for very good reasons] which means homes in poor condition or are too expensive don't get let out and the owner is left paying their bills/mortgage and taxes without a tenant paying them any rent.

    So why would those with savings snap up all homes if supply is increased and they can't let them out? It means price falls and people who want to buy to own have a choice, as well as tenants having a choice, on where to live.
    There he blows!

    New homes: 2.0 million
    Increase in households renting: 1.1 million
    Increase in households owning outright: 0.9 million
    Decrease in households with a mortgage: -0.4 million

    It would have certainly been worse without any new homes. But the idea that an increase in supply is the only intervention required is nonsense - wealth inequality is now far too great in the UK for that to suffice.
    That's been caused by the terrible shortage of new homes, meaning prices are far too high. Which is fundamental supply and demand in action.

    An increase in supply may not be the only intervention required, I never said it is, but it is absolutely 100% needed and would help to reverse the damage that has been done.

    Of course if supply increases and prices fall in real terms, then that would lower that inequality you mentioned too.
    The number of new homes has increased faster than the population, by a wide margin. It's actually a glut.

    The problem is that there are significant mismatches with where those houses are being built and where there is housing pressure. At risk of pissing off lots of PBers, here is my official assessment of LAs (bespoke assessments can be provided on request):

    YIMBY Gold award:

    Selby
    Huntingdonshire
    Mid Suffolk
    Telford and Wrekin
    West Lindsey

    NIMBY Black Spot of Barty Doom

    Pendle
    Thurrock
    Swale
    Epping Forest
    Peterborough

    Urban Excellence award: Southwark
    Rural Excellence award: West Devon, Cotswolds, Uttlesford
    Leon award: Camden, Westminster, Kensington and Chelsea (fewer houses, population falling)
    Trooper award: Tower Hamlets, Bedford, Tewkesbury (massive effort, but simply can’t keep up)
    Breeze block award: Barking and Dagenham, Slough, Leicester (massive population growth, no attempt to deal with it)
    Barty award: Copeland, Richmondshire, Caerphilly, Allerdale (population falling but f*** it more houses anyway)
    This glut is all in your head.

    The number of new homes has nowhere near kept up with demand.

    Again you show a shocking ignorance of the effects of demographics on housing requirements, talking again only of "population". 🤦‍♂️
    8.2% increase in homes
    6.1% increase in households
    6.3% increase in population
    Why are you lying?

    Your households figure is a lie. You know this, so why repeat it?

    People who are compelled to share a home as there's not enough houses are classed as one household. You know that, but you're repeating your lies anyway. 🤦‍♂️

    The idea that t here's been a lesser increase in household demand than population increase, when our demographic changes mean there's even further household pressures, is so obviously false its remarkable your following through on this outright blatant lie.
    The number of people per household has fallen, and overcrowding has fallen too.

    Edit: sorry, the population per household has risen* This is explained by immigrants being much more efficient users of households than say older people
    The number of people per household should have fallen as we have 4 million extra over 50s than we did. Who don't live with children.🤦‍♂️

    Immigration doesn't counter that.

    Your own data reveals the chronic housing shortage. Again!
    In most LAs, housing pressure is actually falling. It's only in about 100 where you see this acute problem, and they are mostly in our cities.
    Don't believe you - please provide evidence because even this week I saw issues in 3 local authorities round here..
    Absolutely.

    I'd love to know these mythical local authorities without housing shortages.
    I provided you with some examples above :)
    I have posted the infographic on this before too, once directly in reply to Bart.

    Glad you got there in the end. You have always banged on that we build plenty of homes. You always missed the point that these are not necessarily where they are needed. Glad to see that is rectified.
    That has always been the point I wanted to make.

    But even then, I suspect more housebuilding in and around London, Edinburgh etc will just serve to keep pushing those economies on, never really solve the housing crisis there. Vicious cycle.
    Sure. But what is the point of more housebuilding in areas like South Shields where the population actually contracted in between the censuses.
    In South Tyneside, the population fell while the number of households increased very slightly.

    This is where the analysis is tricky - under Bart's thinking, that means there was some housing pressure, which has some merit.

    However, I suggest that the inverse is happening - there is so little pressure on housing in S.Tyneside people can afford to live alone. I think Barty includes this effect in his definition of "pressure", which I think is a little misleading.

    Under his definition, housing pressure is effectively inescapable. We'd all love to live alone in a 10 bed mansion.
    No, housing pressure is escapable by having sufficient vacant buildings because you have built enough.

    In S. Tyneside that is not the case.

    There is no LA in England I know of where that's the case.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    WTF kind of excuse is “it was pre-arranged” anyway? Nobody cares if it was pre-arranged, it looks bad because you did it, not because of when it went into your diary.

    I cannot believe that Rishi’s comms team like him, or that he is listening to them.

    "It was pre-arranged to feck off early"
    Whoever didn't block D-Day from his diary is not fit for purpose.

    That he didn't spot it himself - ditto.

    If we had gone from Boris to Penny Mordaunt, the Conservative Party - and the country - would have been in a better place. No way Penny would have shown such a lack of political acumen.

    There are a bunch of MPs who voted for Truss who will have a long, long time to reflect on their stupidity. With that on their CV, hard to see how those ex-MPs who voted for her get another job any time soon.

    I feel sorry for a core of Tory MPs who have been bloody good constituency MPs, but who have been undermined in getting re-elected by too many of their colleagues, from the top down.

    Now we have Starmer drifting in to Downing Street, effectively unopposed. Which wouldn't be quite so bad if hadn't shown himself to be so utterly useless in that first debte. A lifelong barrister who can't make the case for voting for him? He could be on Trump's team of lawyers, being that bad.
    The first debate has descended into "was the Prime Minister really bullshitting the voter? Ooh I don't like that".

    Starmer may have been wooden in the debate, but it has caused him less trouble than Rishi telling porkies. Personally I have no problem with Rishi bunking off from France early, but the people who were planning to vote for him rather than for a self-declared national hero and faux patriot friend of Trump and Putin, might not be so receptive.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    sarissa said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    It’s high time PB woke gestapo tried to get me banned again. It’s been at least three days

    Nah, just accept you erred (we all do) and move on.
    No. Come get me
    No, you're not worth it.

    I'm not surprised at your racism, its not the first and won't be your last.

    I see your point but you’re a stupid fat dickless loser in a Barratt home new build in Warrington. So we also have to take that into consideration, surely, as it means you are SO low in the pecking order of life you are desperate for the tiniest scintilla of perceived superiority, moral or intellectual, even when it is clearly bogus, as here

    YOU’LL FIND ME AT THE MOZART CAFE
    At 10 o'clock?
    It’s 3pm in Odessa darling. EVERYONE goes to “the Mozart” at 3

    Don’t you know ANYTHING?

    *essays disdainful pout*
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    Actually first I’m gonna see the fucked up cathedral
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    boulay said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    12m
    Rishi Sunak says the issue shouldn’t be politicised and we should focus on the veterans. There was supposed to be a campaign pause for D-Day. He broke it, left the veterans, and came home for a political interview.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Um, he filmed an interview that wasn’t to be aired during D-day events and so clearly didn’t do any campaigning.

    The only reason people are aware he did an interview for the campaign is because of people wetting their pants about him missing part of the D-day commemorations. So he respected the campaigning pause - it was others who turned it into part of the campaign.
    That’s not how people will see it. He didn’t have time in his diary for veterans of D Day but could find the time to do a campaign interview. And his excuse that he did the British events but not the non-British one is just staggering. The liberation of Nazi occupied Europe was a joint endeavour, the commemoration of it should be too. Any PM who doesn’t get that instinctively deserves everything he gets.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    They've just reported turnouts in various places at noon. Only 5.2% at one polling station, 20% at another.

    Turnout a bit down compared to 2019 in many places.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    carnforth said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Focus Group of One Alert. I've been waiting in all day for my new garage door openers to be delivered. They just arrived and after the van driver said Ingerland had "no fucking chance" in the Euros his parting quip was that "Richy" Sunak was a wanker. He actually pronounced it /ˈrɪʧi/ which would have gratified Scott_XP and further enraged Casino. Were such a thing possible.

    D-Daygate cut through = 3 feet high and rising.

    I was expecting you to consider the reaction here and elsewhere to Sunak leaving early to be a little Gammony.
    I don't give a fuck whether he went, didn't go, left early or drowned in the Channel. Though the last would have been my preferred outcome. I was just pointing out that lots of people do seem to care. Including the fat oaf in the Sprinter who brought my garage door openers.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    edited June 7

    WTF kind of excuse is “it was pre-arranged” anyway? Nobody cares if it was pre-arranged, it looks bad because you did it, not because of when it went into your diary.

    I cannot believe that Rishi’s comms team like him, or that he is listening to them.

    "It was pre-arranged to feck off early"
    Whoever didn't block D-Day from his diary is not fit for purpose.

    That he didn't spot it himself - ditto.

    If we had gone from Boris to Penny Mordaunt, the Conservative Party - and the country - would have been in a better place. No way Penny would have shown such a lack of political acumen.

    There are a bunch of MPs who voted for Truss who will have a long, long time to reflect on their stupidity. With that on their CV, hard to see how those ex-MPs who voted for her get another job any time soon.

    I feel sorry for a core of Tory MPs who have been bloody good constituency MPs, but who have been undermined in getting re-elected by too many of their colleagues, from the top down.

    Now we have Starmer drifting in to Downing Street, effectively unopposed. Which wouldn't be quite so bad if hadn't shown himself to be so utterly useless in that first debte. A lifelong barrister who can't make the case for voting for him? He could be on Trump's team of lawyers, being that bad.
    Penny would have emerged from the waves in a WWII era dive suit holding a trident.
    COPP style, diving in originally from a canoe paddled by, who? That would have been good.

    Edit: And it really would have upset the fashion nazis, already in the stratosphere with Mr Z's semmit and trews.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    Sunak is not going to resign. He genuinely believes he has done nothing wrong

    You don't resign in the middle of an election campaign, no matter how bad things are.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    edited June 7
    Carnyx said:

    WTF kind of excuse is “it was pre-arranged” anyway? Nobody cares if it was pre-arranged, it looks bad because you did it, not because of when it went into your diary.

    I cannot believe that Rishi’s comms team like him, or that he is listening to them.

    "It was pre-arranged to feck off early"
    Whoever didn't block D-Day from his diary is not fit for purpose.

    That he didn't spot it himself - ditto.

    If we had gone from Boris to Penny Mordaunt, the Conservative Party - and the country - would have been in a better place. No way Penny would have shown such a lack of political acumen.

    There are a bunch of MPs who voted for Truss who will have a long, long time to reflect on their stupidity. With that on their CV, hard to see how those ex-MPs who voted for her get another job any time soon.

    I feel sorry for a core of Tory MPs who have been bloody good constituency MPs, but who have been undermined in getting re-elected by too many of their colleagues, from the top down.

    Now we have Starmer drifting in to Downing Street, effectively unopposed. Which wouldn't be quite so bad if hadn't shown himself to be so utterly useless in that first debte. A lifelong barrister who can't make the case for voting for him? He could be on Trump's team of lawyers, being that bad.
    Penny would have emerged from the waves in a WWII era dive suit holding a trident.
    COPP style, diving in originally from a canoe paddled by, who? That would have been good.
    ...
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    Isabel Oakeshott
    @IsabelOakeshott
    ·
    1m
    👀 Introducing my new project! News, intelligence and analysis from the heart of the political Right. Sign up here! http://insidetheright.today


    https://x.com/IsabelOakeshott

    That would make a refreshing change.
    “Inside right” makes it sound like a 1950s football blog.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Dura_Ace said:

    Focus Group of One Alert. I've been waiting in all day for my new garage door openers to be delivered. They just arrived and after the van driver said Ingerland had "no fucking chance" in the Euros his parting quip was that "Richy" Sunak was a wanker. He actually pronounced it /ˈrɪʧi/ which would have gratified Scott_XP and further enraged Casino. Were such a thing possible.

    D-Daygate cut through = 3 feet high and rising.

    A Rishi win hinged on late winners from super-sub Grealish. Is Southgate a Labour agent?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,767
    Dura_Ace said:

    carnforth said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Focus Group of One Alert. I've been waiting in all day for my new garage door openers to be delivered. They just arrived and after the van driver said Ingerland had "no fucking chance" in the Euros his parting quip was that "Richy" Sunak was a wanker. He actually pronounced it /ˈrɪʧi/ which would have gratified Scott_XP and further enraged Casino. Were such a thing possible.

    D-Daygate cut through = 3 feet high and rising.

    I was expecting you to consider the reaction here and elsewhere to Sunak leaving early to be a little Gammony.
    I don't give a fuck whether he went, didn't go, left early or drowned in the Channel. Though the last would have been my preferred outcome. I was just pointing out that lots of people do seem to care. Including the fat oaf in the Sprinter who brought my garage door openers.
    Why was he so negative on England's chances in the Euros? Southgate's team has a sparkling set of players up front. Perhaps he is concerned about their vulnerability at the back.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    edited June 7
    a
    Carnyx said:

    WTF kind of excuse is “it was pre-arranged” anyway? Nobody cares if it was pre-arranged, it looks bad because you did it, not because of when it went into your diary.

    I cannot believe that Rishi’s comms team like him, or that he is listening to them.

    "It was pre-arranged to feck off early"
    Whoever didn't block D-Day from his diary is not fit for purpose.

    That he didn't spot it himself - ditto.

    If we had gone from Boris to Penny Mordaunt, the Conservative Party - and the country - would have been in a better place. No way Penny would have shown such a lack of political acumen.

    There are a bunch of MPs who voted for Truss who will have a long, long time to reflect on their stupidity. With that on their CV, hard to see how those ex-MPs who voted for her get another job any time soon.

    I feel sorry for a core of Tory MPs who have been bloody good constituency MPs, but who have been undermined in getting re-elected by too many of their colleagues, from the top down.

    Now we have Starmer drifting in to Downing Street, effectively unopposed. Which wouldn't be quite so bad if hadn't shown himself to be so utterly useless in that first debte. A lifelong barrister who can't make the case for voting for him? He could be on Trump's team of lawyers, being that bad.
    Penny would have emerged from the waves in a WWII era dive suit holding a trident.
    COPP style, diving in originally from a canoe paddled by, who? That would have been good.
    No, apparently standing in the sea. Then revealed to be standing on the casing of an X-craft

    The Royal Navy during the Second World Wat A22903

    see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gambit
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    Dura_Ace said:

    carnforth said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Focus Group of One Alert. I've been waiting in all day for my new garage door openers to be delivered. They just arrived and after the van driver said Ingerland had "no fucking chance" in the Euros his parting quip was that "Richy" Sunak was a wanker. He actually pronounced it /ˈrɪʧi/ which would have gratified Scott_XP and further enraged Casino. Were such a thing possible.

    D-Daygate cut through = 3 feet high and rising.

    I was expecting you to consider the reaction here and elsewhere to Sunak leaving early to be a little Gammony.
    I don't give a fuck whether he went, didn't go, left early or drowned in the Channel. Though the last would have been my preferred outcome. I was just pointing out that lots of people do seem to care. Including the fat oaf in the Sprinter who brought my garage door openers.
    Don't you just use your hands?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    FF43 said:

    darkage said:

    Cicero said:

    FF43 said:

    maaarsh said:

    BobSykes said:

    I thought the low bar set by Brown in 2010 for GE campaign incompetence by a PM would never be surpassed, but Rishi is quite unbelievable in his staggering ineptitude.

    I've been broadly sympathetic to his plight and much as it pains me to do so, expecting to put a cross in the blue box despite zero prospect of a Tory hold in my ultra marginal seat even if the polls had been neck and neck.

    I'm resigned to Labour, have been for 3 years, and accept one party can't stay in power for more than 14/15 years, I'm fine with Keir as PM, dull as he'll probably be, but I'm utterly depressed at the thought of the Tories being wiped out and Labour having a stupendous majority that will keep them/ the left in power for a generation. And that I'll be totally disenfranchised if my only prospect is to vote for some Faragist rabble.

    I'm 47. I could be approaching my 70s before the country swings back to the centre right, if it ever does at all.

    I'm so depressed about this, as someone who's taken a close interest in politics for maybe 35 years. Sad.

    Tories got a 10 year majority last time, things can turn much quicker than you think.
    I admit as someone who thought Johnson had realigned politics for a generation, I was surprised how quickly it all fell apart. So we shouldn't make the same assumption about Starmer going on for ever. Nevertheless the opposite assumption is also a mistake. My impression of Starmer is he is very ambitious for a lengthy period in office and will do his utmost to win the following election.

    So Starmer might crash and burn or he might be there for years and years. Not a particularly useful assessment for a site dedicated to political predictions, I accept.
    It depends how fundamentally broken you think British politics is.

    If Starmer can stabilise the ship, get into a generally broad based recovery, then he will stay in office for a while, and the Tories can go through their usual cats in a sack fun time in the first two terms, and maybe recover for a third term.

    If Starmer can not fix things and becomes rapidly unpopular, then the whole system will become unstable. You could then see a real breakdown in politics, with the failures of our Victorian political system leading to crisis and paralysis.

    Then Putinists like Farage might well get their Trump moment and the shit really hits the fan.

    As of now, it could go either way, but the innate conservatism of the system and the country may yet stabilise things. However the slightest thing, something like an early change of Monarch for example, or some epochal disaster, might also lead to a general questioning of our entire system.

    After the abject chaos of the Tory misrule, the country needs to settle down. Certainly Farage is the last thing we need at this point, and with no real party behind him, I really do question if Reform UK Ltd. is anything more than a sophisticated astrotrurf operation.
    It is a bit unfortunate that Farage needs to come back in to politics but it is because liberal elites (including the conservative party) have failed to absorb the lessons of Brexit.
    The lessons of Brexit presumably being never do anything so stupid again? There's a reason why no-one is talking about Brexit success in this election campaign
    Because it’s a fact of life now, has little impact on most day to day lives, and everyone sensible realises it’s irreversible and whatever their views in the referendum it’s time to move on?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Scott_xP said:

    I feel sorry for a core of Tory MPs who have been bloody good constituency MPs, but who have been undermined in getting re-elected by too many of their colleagues, from the top down.

    Shame you didn't feel the same for the many even better MPs who were booted by your boy, BoZo.
    Except they weren't.
    Hands up if you think Dominic Grieve was a true Conservative and a Gentleman. Ooh lots of hands.

    Hands up if you think Jonathan Gullis isn't a complete moron. What, none?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098

    Dura_Ace said:

    carnforth said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Focus Group of One Alert. I've been waiting in all day for my new garage door openers to be delivered. They just arrived and after the van driver said Ingerland had "no fucking chance" in the Euros his parting quip was that "Richy" Sunak was a wanker. He actually pronounced it /ˈrɪʧi/ which would have gratified Scott_XP and further enraged Casino. Were such a thing possible.

    D-Daygate cut through = 3 feet high and rising.

    I was expecting you to consider the reaction here and elsewhere to Sunak leaving early to be a little Gammony.
    I don't give a fuck whether he went, didn't go, left early or drowned in the Channel. Though the last would have been my preferred outcome. I was just pointing out that lots of people do seem to care. Including the fat oaf in the Sprinter who brought my garage door openers.
    Why was he so negative on England's chances in the Euros? Southgate's team has a sparkling set of players up front. Perhaps he is concerned about their vulnerability at the back.
    Yes I found that a bit odd. Doesn't matter about conceding three if you score five.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    edited June 7
    Ok, the pipe major in the town I grew up in has just completely lost it a series of deeply offensive Facebook posts, all related to D-gate.

    CUT THROUGH
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    I don't fancy Penny Mourdant job this evening. It bad enough having 6 others gang up on you in a debate over your record in government, now what does she do about Sunak decision?
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Dura_Ace said:

    carnforth said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Focus Group of One Alert. I've been waiting in all day for my new garage door openers to be delivered. They just arrived and after the van driver said Ingerland had "no fucking chance" in the Euros his parting quip was that "Richy" Sunak was a wanker. He actually pronounced it /ˈrɪʧi/ which would have gratified Scott_XP and further enraged Casino. Were such a thing possible.

    D-Daygate cut through = 3 feet high and rising.

    I was expecting you to consider the reaction here and elsewhere to Sunak leaving early to be a little Gammony.
    I don't give a fuck whether he went, didn't go, left early or drowned in the Channel. Though the last would have been my preferred outcome. I was just pointing out that lots of people do seem to care. Including the fat oaf in the Sprinter who brought my garage door openers.
    Why was he so negative on England's chances in the Euros? Southgate's team has a sparkling set of players up front. Perhaps he is concerned about their vulnerability at the back.
    If England play well they can win. As can a few others. That the semis is pretty much par for England shows how far the team has come since the grim days of that other soggy lightweight Shteve.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    ToryJim said:

    boulay said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    12m
    Rishi Sunak says the issue shouldn’t be politicised and we should focus on the veterans. There was supposed to be a campaign pause for D-Day. He broke it, left the veterans, and came home for a political interview.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Um, he filmed an interview that wasn’t to be aired during D-day events and so clearly didn’t do any campaigning.

    The only reason people are aware he did an interview for the campaign is because of people wetting their pants about him missing part of the D-day commemorations. So he respected the campaigning pause - it was others who turned it into part of the campaign.
    That’s not how people will see it. He didn’t have time in his diary for veterans of D Day but could find the time to do a campaign interview. And his excuse that he did the British events but not the non-British one is just staggering. The liberation of Nazi occupied Europe was a joint endeavour, the commemoration of it should be too. Any PM who doesn’t get that instinctively deserves everything he gets.
    He didn’t have time for veterans except the one he pushed along in his wheelchair, the ones he met, addressed and quoted and praised at the ceremony he attended.

    Now I know I’m one of probably three people on this site who didn’t stop everything yesterday and devote the day to watching D-day, and I apologise for that, but I’m guessing the veterans cared more about the king being there, about actually being there themselves and getting the thanks from the ordinary people.

    I can’t imagine any of them knew who was actually attending the main ceremony. So let’s get someone to ask them - after all, it’s about them and their comrades. If they really are offended then Sunak needs to step down, if they say they don’t care, it’s not about politicians then we move on. Fair enough?


  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    carnforth said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Focus Group of One Alert. I've been waiting in all day for my new garage door openers to be delivered. They just arrived and after the van driver said Ingerland had "no fucking chance" in the Euros his parting quip was that "Richy" Sunak was a wanker. He actually pronounced it /ˈrɪʧi/ which would have gratified Scott_XP and further enraged Casino. Were such a thing possible.

    D-Daygate cut through = 3 feet high and rising.

    I was expecting you to consider the reaction here and elsewhere to Sunak leaving early to be a little Gammony.
    I don't give a fuck whether he went, didn't go, left early or drowned in the Channel. Though the last would have been my preferred outcome. I was just pointing out that lots of people do seem to care. Including the fat oaf in the Sprinter who brought my garage door openers.
    Don't you just use your hands?
    I pictured his “garage door openers” as being twin 8 year old refugees, delivered by a gang master.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603

    I don't fancy Penny Mourdant job this evening. It bad enough having 6 others gang up on you in a debate over your record in government, now what does she do about Sunak decision?

    She could use it to announce a leadership bid.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    biggles said:

    FF43 said:

    darkage said:

    Cicero said:

    FF43 said:

    maaarsh said:

    BobSykes said:

    I thought the low bar set by Brown in 2010 for GE campaign incompetence by a PM would never be surpassed, but Rishi is quite unbelievable in his staggering ineptitude.

    I've been broadly sympathetic to his plight and much as it pains me to do so, expecting to put a cross in the blue box despite zero prospect of a Tory hold in my ultra marginal seat even if the polls had been neck and neck.

    I'm resigned to Labour, have been for 3 years, and accept one party can't stay in power for more than 14/15 years, I'm fine with Keir as PM, dull as he'll probably be, but I'm utterly depressed at the thought of the Tories being wiped out and Labour having a stupendous majority that will keep them/ the left in power for a generation. And that I'll be totally disenfranchised if my only prospect is to vote for some Faragist rabble.

    I'm 47. I could be approaching my 70s before the country swings back to the centre right, if it ever does at all.

    I'm so depressed about this, as someone who's taken a close interest in politics for maybe 35 years. Sad.

    Tories got a 10 year majority last time, things can turn much quicker than you think.
    I admit as someone who thought Johnson had realigned politics for a generation, I was surprised how quickly it all fell apart. So we shouldn't make the same assumption about Starmer going on for ever. Nevertheless the opposite assumption is also a mistake. My impression of Starmer is he is very ambitious for a lengthy period in office and will do his utmost to win the following election.

    So Starmer might crash and burn or he might be there for years and years. Not a particularly useful assessment for a site dedicated to political predictions, I accept.
    It depends how fundamentally broken you think British politics is.

    If Starmer can stabilise the ship, get into a generally broad based recovery, then he will stay in office for a while, and the Tories can go through their usual cats in a sack fun time in the first two terms, and maybe recover for a third term.

    If Starmer can not fix things and becomes rapidly unpopular, then the whole system will become unstable. You could then see a real breakdown in politics, with the failures of our Victorian political system leading to crisis and paralysis.

    Then Putinists like Farage might well get their Trump moment and the shit really hits the fan.

    As of now, it could go either way, but the innate conservatism of the system and the country may yet stabilise things. However the slightest thing, something like an early change of Monarch for example, or some epochal disaster, might also lead to a general questioning of our entire system.

    After the abject chaos of the Tory misrule, the country needs to settle down. Certainly Farage is the last thing we need at this point, and with no real party behind him, I really do question if Reform UK Ltd. is anything more than a sophisticated astrotrurf operation.
    It is a bit unfortunate that Farage needs to come back in to politics but it is because liberal elites (including the conservative party) have failed to absorb the lessons of Brexit.
    The lessons of Brexit presumably being never do anything so stupid again? There's a reason why no-one is talking about Brexit success in this election campaign
    Because it’s a fact of life now, has little impact on most day to day lives, and everyone sensible realises it’s irreversible and whatever their views in the referendum it’s time to move on?
    I am very sure that isn't the reason none of the parties are talking about Brexit success, not even Farage
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    I don't fancy Penny Mourdant job this evening. It bad enough having 6 others gang up on you in a debate over your record in government, now what does she do about Sunak decision?

    Announce he’s been binned off via Brady, then shrugs off her Per Una spesh to reveal a Boudicca cosplay outfit, pulls out her big statty fyoonz sword and decapitates Nige.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549
    boulay said:

    ToryJim said:

    boulay said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    12m
    Rishi Sunak says the issue shouldn’t be politicised and we should focus on the veterans. There was supposed to be a campaign pause for D-Day. He broke it, left the veterans, and came home for a political interview.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Um, he filmed an interview that wasn’t to be aired during D-day events and so clearly didn’t do any campaigning.

    The only reason people are aware he did an interview for the campaign is because of people wetting their pants about him missing part of the D-day commemorations. So he respected the campaigning pause - it was others who turned it into part of the campaign.
    That’s not how people will see it. He didn’t have time in his diary for veterans of D Day but could find the time to do a campaign interview. And his excuse that he did the British events but not the non-British one is just staggering. The liberation of Nazi occupied Europe was a joint endeavour, the commemoration of it should be too. Any PM who doesn’t get that instinctively deserves everything he gets.
    He didn’t have time for veterans except the one he pushed along in his wheelchair, the ones he met, addressed and quoted and praised at the ceremony he attended.

    Now I know I’m one of probably three people on this site who didn’t stop everything yesterday and devote the day to watching D-day, and I apologise for that, but I’m guessing the veterans cared more about the king being there, about actually being there themselves and getting the thanks from the ordinary people.

    I can’t imagine any of them knew who was actually attending the main ceremony. So let’s get someone to ask them - after all, it’s about them and their comrades. If they really are offended then Sunak needs to step down, if they say they don’t care, it’s not about politicians then we move on. Fair enough?


    I'm looking forward to the 100th anniversary of D-Day, when politicians will have to kneel down upon the Holy Sands, bare their back and flagellate themselves with the Sacred Barbed Wire Of Omaha. Anyone seen as not showing enough reverence will immediatey be tied to a Czech hedgehog, ready to be claimed by the next tide.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    edited June 7

    Scott_xP said:

    I feel sorry for a core of Tory MPs who have been bloody good constituency MPs, but who have been undermined in getting re-elected by too many of their colleagues, from the top down.

    Shame you didn't feel the same for the many even better MPs who were booted by your boy, BoZo.
    Except they weren't.
    Hands up if you think Dominic Grieve was a true Conservative and a Gentleman. Ooh lots of hands.

    Hands up if you think Jonathan Gullis isn't a complete moron. What, none?
    Dominic Grieve was a terrible waste of space who gave bad legal advice (www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28014035) and was father of the idiotic photo ID policy for elections based on some borderline racist views (www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/06/dominic-grieve-electoral-fraud-growing-immigrant-areas).

    He also behaved very poorly over Brexit.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,555

    I don't fancy Penny Mourdant job this evening. It bad enough having 6 others gang up on you in a debate over your record in government, now what does she do about Sunak decision?

    "The PM was badly advised. It is not a position I would have taken."

    Take as much as you want out of that as criticism of Sunak.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    boulay said:

    ToryJim said:

    boulay said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    12m
    Rishi Sunak says the issue shouldn’t be politicised and we should focus on the veterans. There was supposed to be a campaign pause for D-Day. He broke it, left the veterans, and came home for a political interview.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Um, he filmed an interview that wasn’t to be aired during D-day events and so clearly didn’t do any campaigning.

    The only reason people are aware he did an interview for the campaign is because of people wetting their pants about him missing part of the D-day commemorations. So he respected the campaigning pause - it was others who turned it into part of the campaign.
    That’s not how people will see it. He didn’t have time in his diary for veterans of D Day but could find the time to do a campaign interview. And his excuse that he did the British events but not the non-British one is just staggering. The liberation of Nazi occupied Europe was a joint endeavour, the commemoration of it should be too. Any PM who doesn’t get that instinctively deserves everything he gets.
    He didn’t have time for veterans except the one he pushed along in his wheelchair, the ones he met, addressed and quoted and praised at the ceremony he attended.

    Now I know I’m one of probably three people on this site who didn’t stop everything yesterday and devote the day to watching D-day, and I apologise for that, but I’m guessing the veterans cared more about the king being there, about actually being there themselves and getting the thanks from the ordinary people.

    I can’t imagine any of them knew who was actually attending the main ceremony. So let’s get someone to ask them - after all, it’s about them and their comrades. If they really are offended then Sunak needs to step down, if they say they don’t care, it’s not about politicians then we move on. Fair enough?


    I am particularly busy at the moment but I regret to say that I did not see a single minute of the anniversary commemorations either. No doubt the fault is mine.

    I get more than a little tired of those expressing outrage on someone else's behalf, someone they haven't even had the courtesy to ask. It is wearing.

    OTOH I find it very difficult to see what Sunak could possibly do that could make him look more Prime Ministerial or like a leader of substance than being there and playing a prominent part. It is politically stupid and inept, as so many of his decisions are. Morally? Bah!
  • Big_IanBig_Ian Posts: 67
    algarkirk said:

    WTF kind of excuse is “it was pre-arranged” anyway? Nobody cares if it was pre-arranged, it looks bad because you did it, not because of when it went into your diary.

    I cannot believe that Rishi’s comms team like him, or that he is listening to them.

    "It was pre-arranged to feck off early"
    Whoever didn't block D-Day from his diary is not fit for purpose.

    That he didn't spot it himself - ditto.

    If we had gone from Boris to Penny Mordaunt, the Conservative Party - and the country - would have been in a better place. No way Penny would have shown such a lack of political acumen.

    There are a bunch of MPs who voted for Truss who will have a long, long time to reflect on their stupidity. With that on their CV, hard to see how those ex-MPs who voted for her get another job any time soon.

    I feel sorry for a core of Tory MPs who have been bloody good constituency MPs, but who have been undermined in getting re-elected by too many of their colleagues, from the top down.

    Now we have Starmer drifting in to Downing Street, effectively unopposed. Which wouldn't be quite so bad if hadn't shown himself to be so utterly useless in that first debte. A lifelong barrister who can't make the case for voting for him? He could be on Trump's team of lawyers, being that bad.
    Backbenchers get to choose the two best people to be leader. They are accountable as a body if they don't choose two outstanding candidates.

    Backbenchers in a majority governing party are in fact the supreme authority in this country. They have chosen to let their leaders get on with disaster after disaster, political and ethical. They decided to be vote fodder instead of Burkean representatives. Tough.
    They are accountable as a body if they don't choose two outstanding candidates?

    Slim pickings...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    edited June 7
    kinabalu said:

    Eabhal said:

    Ok, the pipe major in the town I grew up in has just completely lost it a series of deeply abusive Facebook posts, all related to D-gate.

    CUT THROUGH

    "Garage door openers"

    "The pipe major in my town"

    I'm in an unfamiliar world here today.
    You can think of a pipe major as a sort of hyper masculine alcoholic town crier, but much louder and with a lower centre of gravity

    A tenuous, dangerous authority
  • https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1799040426764358137

    Tense.

    Do watch in full

    Must be one of the worst statements I have ever seen.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 7
    Leon said:

    The state of this

    “Baillie Gifford cancels all remaining sponsorships of literary festivals”

    https://x.com/guardianbooks/status/1798748715156643956?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    They’ve done this because a small group of Woke trustafarian idiots have campaigned for it bEcAuSe IsRaeL

    Never give in to these people. You give an inch and before you know it everything is cancelled / problematic.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    Eabhal said:

    Ok, the pipe major in the town I grew up in has just completely lost it a series of deeply offensive Facebook posts, all related to D-gate.

    CUT THROUGH

    "pipe major in the town..."

    This is a betting site so my market: 18-22 stone.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,555
    Ghedebrav said:

    I don't fancy Penny Mourdant job this evening. It bad enough having 6 others gang up on you in a debate over your record in government, now what does she do about Sunak decision?

    Announce he’s been binned off via Brady, then shrugs off her Per Una spesh to reveal a Boudicca cosplay outfit, pulls out her big statty fyoonz sword and decapitates Nige.
    I'd pay to see that....
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    edited June 7
    DavidL said:

    boulay said:

    ToryJim said:

    boulay said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    12m
    Rishi Sunak says the issue shouldn’t be politicised and we should focus on the veterans. There was supposed to be a campaign pause for D-Day. He broke it, left the veterans, and came home for a political interview.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Um, he filmed an interview that wasn’t to be aired during D-day events and so clearly didn’t do any campaigning.

    The only reason people are aware he did an interview for the campaign is because of people wetting their pants about him missing part of the D-day commemorations. So he respected the campaigning pause - it was others who turned it into part of the campaign.
    That’s not how people will see it. He didn’t have time in his diary for veterans of D Day but could find the time to do a campaign interview. And his excuse that he did the British events but not the non-British one is just staggering. The liberation of Nazi occupied Europe was a joint endeavour, the commemoration of it should be too. Any PM who doesn’t get that instinctively deserves everything he gets.
    He didn’t have time for veterans except the one he pushed along in his wheelchair, the ones he met, addressed and quoted and praised at the ceremony he attended.

    Now I know I’m one of probably three people on this site who didn’t stop everything yesterday and devote the day to watching D-day, and I apologise for that, but I’m guessing the veterans cared more about the king being there, about actually being there themselves and getting the thanks from the ordinary people.

    I can’t imagine any of them knew who was actually attending the main ceremony. So let’s get someone to ask them - after all, it’s about them and their comrades. If they really are offended then Sunak needs to step down, if they say they don’t care, it’s not about politicians then we move on. Fair enough?


    I am particularly busy at the moment but I regret to say that I did not see a single minute of the anniversary commemorations either. No doubt the fault is mine.

    I get more than a little tired of those expressing outrage on someone else's behalf, someone they haven't even had the courtesy to ask. It is wearing.

    OTOH I find it very difficult to see what Sunak could possibly do that could make him look more Prime Ministerial or like a leader of substance than being there and playing a prominent part. It is politically stupid and inept, as so many of his decisions are. Morally? Bah!
    That’s the bit I just don’t understand. Flip this around. If you were running an election campaign and were offered free prime time tv time that didn’t “score” for electoral balance reasons, photo ops with world leaders, including Zelensky, and universally loved D-Day veterans; you’d jump at the chance.

    Him turning it down shows incompetence and idiocy. It’s the exact opposite of taking the politically motivated choice some are accusing him of. It’s just stupid.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,863

    purge... of the right wingers

    I do get pissed off by these PB one-liners with absolutely zero context.
    Sorry - its was clearing a draft!
    You can clear drafts from the Vanilla drafts page
    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/drafts
This discussion has been closed.