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I think the Tories would be happy with these MRPs all things considered – politicalbetting.com

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  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    DM_Andy said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    23m
    Tory campaign is on the brink of complete collapse tonight.

    Dan Hodges just goes for the laziest take possible. I think I trust the political judgement of everyone on PB over Hodges' latest bandwagon tweets.

    He’s overly dramatic . We’ve still got the manifestos to come and there’s a month to go . A lot can happen.
    All of it bad for the Tories...
    Very funny !

    I still think the Tories will recover somewhat .
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,493
    edited June 3
    Foxy said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Shogun is the best tv series I have seen this year.

    Just a good story, and there is actual unpredictable danger of leading characters. Nobody is safe.

    And if "woke" stuff in modern tv / film (looks at Leon) something that really grinds your gears, there is none. No needless race or gender swapping characters, no Mary Sue girl bossing, no box ticking the character list to ensure it fits the awarding bodies criteria.

    Where as Assassin Creed video game seems to have walked straight into this minefield with their future game set in a similar time period.

    what channel /site is it on
    Disney+ (but it was made by FX who obviously made great shows like Justified, Sons of Anarchy, The Shield). Its not like most of the Disney+ shitfest.
    Cheers
    It based on a book that is a fictionalised set of stories of a real guy. The actual real story is crazier than the fiction.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Adams_(pilot)
    I recently watched a 2012 Russian adaptation of Bulgakov White Guard, on Prime, it managed the complexities of the civil war politics very well.

    In the first episode the Hetmen in Kiev lose the support of the Germans, so call up the Ukrainian Nationalist for support because the Ukrainian Socialists are closing in. After that it gets messy.
    That sounds interesting. What is it called?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Guard_(TV_series)

    It’s historically correct as the author was a White from Kiev, so it’s in part autobiographical. It also shows how complicated Ukraine actually is, as the Hetmen I think come from Ukrainian time in Polish Lithuanian empire, so not popular with Ukrainian nationals, but the socialist Petliura is not popular with the Whites who would rather have the Tsar back in Moscow and not a Ukraine republic. but as the Bolsheviks close in the Socialist turn to the poles for help.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    DM_Andy said:


    geoffw said:

    DM_Andy said:


    geoffw said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus wept! The Deltapoll has VI for 18 to 24 yo of 81% for Labour!!

    Natty Serves proving popular....
    Nobody in that age group would be impacted by it.
    But they know better than anyone how they would feel about it happening now, and so despise the idea of it happening to people of their age in future.
    Not to mention they'll have younger siblings/friends/acquaintances etc whom it could be done to.
    Gen X have kids, Boomers have grandkids, the Lost generation have great grandkids.
    It's about age and the progressive scale.
    The Lost Generation is 1883 to 1900. I think you mean my Silent Generation, no?

    Angela Rayner is the very back end of Gen X according to that chart.
    Do you imply she's already a great grandmother?

    Nope, I was pointing out that there are lots of Boomers with great grandkids now as some of even the youngest Gen X have grandkids.
    Can I be the one to break it that some Millennials are grandparents?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044

    Scott_xP said:

    Instead of watching the news this evening, i watch the TTOI episode when they called the Snappy Lec.

    Much more entertaining, with similar results

    Snappy Lec now? FFS.

    Where has this horrible construction come from? It’s bloody awful.
    You are obviously not down with the kids. Everything has to be shortened in this way. You can't just say full words anymore.
    Bruh. Obvs!
  • Clutch_BromptonClutch_Brompton Posts: 737
    DM_Andy said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    23m
    Tory campaign is on the brink of complete collapse tonight.

    Dan Hodges just goes for the laziest take possible. I think I trust the political judgement of everyone on PB over Hodges' latest bandwagon tweets.

    Might be a stopped clock on this one
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,242
    Been looking more at YouGov and think the craziest seat is the new Carmarthen:

    Plaid 26, Lab 23, Con 22, Reform 14, Green 7, LD 6
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Chameleon said:

    Chameleon said:

    How low the Tories have sunk..... shitting themselves about a man who has failed to be elected 7 times and is not popular in polling with voters to any eye catching extent. Utter Clowns.

    He's about 25 points more popular with their own voters than Sunak!
    Nah, not amongst current VI
    He's more popular with 2019 Tories as a whole though
    It's among current voters afaik: https://x.com/BritainElects/status/1797649013371793481
    Hmmmm, what curious creatures current Tory voters are!
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,517

    I'm not so sure that, even after today's frenetic headlines, Reform will have much of an impact come polling day. They're essentially a one-man band supplemented by Lee Anderson. Tice has made no headway, personally, at all. What else have they got? Ann Widdecombe? Which also leads me to suggest that Reform is very much a 'laddish' party that is likely to have limited appeal to women voters (though I confess I haven't seen any male/female breakdown of support for Reform - it's just a gut feeling).

    Not sure I agree with you there. Certainly the idea they have made no headway doesn't match reality. Just look at that MRP poll in the thread header. They are 6 points behind the Tories, 4 points ahead of gthe Lib Dems. I agree they might well fade over the next few weeks but Tice has overseen a substantial increase in their polling numbers which belies your 'no headway' claim.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    MRP pollsters must be mildly annoyed to have dropped their polls on a day when there is some news that has genuine potential to shift the dynamic (not the phony so-called "gamechangers" we've had to date).

    I'd had a strong assumption RefUK would fall away, but this makes it interesting and has potential to split the right wing vote in a catastrophic way for Sunak.

    There are more YouGov MRPs to come so this will give them a nice benchmark against which to measure the Faragasm.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871
    Evening all :)

    A veritable plethora of polling on offer today.

    A lot to consider so just some immediate thoughts - the battle for third place in the popular (or less popular) vote seems to be tightening. While Reform are on 14% and four points ahead of the LDs with R&W, it's much closer with the other three polls - the YouGov MRP, Deltapoll and JL Partners. It may well be Farage's intervention will boost Reform - or it may not.

    We know from the Clacton constituency poll the threat a Farage candidacy could have but the real message continues to be the collapse of the Conservative vote. In both the Clacton and the latter Godalming & Ash surveys, the Conservatives were down nearly a half on December 2019 - that ties in with a vote share of 25% in England.

    I'm sceptical of MRP polls at this stage - even the ones taken in the last few days of the 2019 election were well out.

    The more conventional polls remain all over the place to a degree - the Lab/LD/Green vs Con/Ref numbers tell a slightly different story.

    R&W: 61-34, JL Partners 57-38, Deltapoll 62-34.

    JL Partners still looks an outlier - James Johnson has put up an explanation as to why and how their numbers have changed so we'll see how this trend continues.

    This is going to be a long month however you dress it up - it seems difficult to imagine the Conservative vote sinking into the teens but not inconceivable. Labour will of course take nothing for granted - they haven't got a single vote yet let alone a single seat.

    Finally, it's worth repeating just because something has never happened doesn't mean it can't.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus wept! The Deltapoll has VI for 18 to 24 yo of 81% for Labour!!

    Natty Serves proving popular....
    Reform should look at some of the policies that parties on the continent are using to attract younger voters and try to outflank the Tories.
    That is one way that we are unlike our continental neighbours. Our youngsters are on the other side of this Tory culture war, particularly the women. Reform is the only party in Britain with even worse age demographics than the Tories. Its double or quits on a losing hand.

    In part I think it that migration to Britain is 75 years old, but much more recent on the continent, so our youngsters have always known it, and our communities less segregated. Partly it is much lower unemployment particularly amongst the young.

    All the polling confirms this. Britons are one of the least racist nations in Europe, and numbers citing immigration as an issue much lower than old codgers like @Leon, or indeed the PB Median.
    Older liberals equating opposition to immigration with racism is quite self-serving because their financial interests are served by importing workers, but the financial interests of the young are different.

    I don't think you're right on the history either. There was post-war immigration to France, Germany, the Netherlands, etc, as well. What was unique about the UK was the fairly long period from the late 1960s to the late 1990s when net migration was around zero and it became a fringe issue.
    As much as you try to blame the younger generations problems on migration, that is bullshit. Our population is growing at a very slow rate compared to historical norms.

    The problem is the lack of construction, not migration.

    Especially since even without migration we'd still need construction that we aren't getting anyway.

    A family of 4 moving into the country only need one house between them. 6 grandchildren growing up and becoming adults require 6 houses between them.

    In the past decade our over 50s population has grown (net) by more than net migration. That's the real main reason why we need so many more houses
    Are you arguing that with a stable national population, we would still need to increase the number of houses exponentially because if you look at an individual nuclear family, there are more grandkids than kids?
    I am arguing that with a stable national population we would still need to increase the number of houses dramatically because if you look at national demographics our demographics are changing, yes.

    Children typically live with their parents. Parents typically live with their children. (Great-) Grandparents typically don't live with either.

    Even if our population numbers are stable, our demographics are not. People are living longer, we have more alive grandparents and great grandparents than ever before who are living in a house without any young people with them.

    We need massive construction because of demographics alone.
    Sounds like what we need is sheltered accommodation and care homes.
    I'd expect demand for both to explode as the boomers start to get old enough to require them, yes. Social care, too - and we've probably now left it too late to reform until after the boomer bulge has passed.

    This probably has major repercussions for local government finances over the next couple of decades.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,517

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus wept! The Deltapoll has VI for 18 to 24 yo of 81% for Labour!!

    Natty Serves proving popular....
    Reform should look at some of the policies that parties on the continent are using to attract younger voters and try to outflank the Tories.
    That is one way that we are unlike our continental neighbours. Our youngsters are on the other side of this Tory culture war, particularly the women. Reform is the only party in Britain with even worse age demographics than the Tories. Its double or quits on a losing hand.

    In part I think it that migration to Britain is 75 years old, but much more recent on the continent, so our youngsters have always known it, and our communities less segregated. Partly it is much lower unemployment particularly amongst the young.

    All the polling confirms this. Britons are one of the least racist nations in Europe, and numbers citing immigration as an issue much lower than old codgers like @Leon, or indeed the PB Median.
    Older liberals equating opposition to immigration with racism is quite self-serving because their financial interests are served by importing workers, but the financial interests of the young are different.

    I don't think you're right on the history either. There was post-war immigration to France, Germany, the Netherlands, etc, as well. What was unique about the UK was the fairly long period from the late 1960s to the late 1990s when net migration was around zero and it became a fringe issue.
    As much as you try to blame the younger generations problems on migration, that is bullshit. Our population is growing at a very slow rate compared to historical norms.

    The problem is the lack of construction, not migration.

    Especially since even without migration we'd still need construction that we aren't getting anyway.

    A family of 4 moving into the country only need one house between them. 6 grandchildren growing up and becoming adults require 6 houses between them.

    In the past decade our over 50s population has grown (net) by more than net migration. That's the real main reason why we need so many more houses
    Are you arguing that with a stable national population, we would still need to increase the number of houses exponentially because if you look at an individual nuclear family, there are more grandkids than kids?
    A lot of the increase in housing demand post WW2 has been driven by changes in lifestyle separate to any immigration issues. People mrrying later, divorce, kids wanting independence and the growth in second home ownership have all had a substantial impact on housing demand.
    They all play a role but people living longer than they did in the past absolutely dwarfs all of that.

    Either way though, we need massively more houses which can only be done with a huge increase in construction. Even if there's no migration.
    I remember a few years ago one of the Radio 4 science/maths programmes pointing out that UK life expectancy had increased by 2 days for every week that has passed since WW2. I think that might have faltered slighty in recent times but is still a remarkable improvement.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,976
    edited June 3
    Talking of down with the kids, Trump has joined the TikyTok. Has 4.5 million followers in 2 days. Yes the same social media platform he wanted to ban a few years ago.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    ohnotnow said:

    Nigelb said:

    How to stop Farage in full flow.
    https://x.com/DUPleader/status/1797662088627994889/

    UK broadcasters should take note.

    I wish our local media had even half her balls.
    The gormless expression on his face at the end is priceless.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus wept! The Deltapoll has VI for 18 to 24 yo of 81% for Labour!!

    Natty Serves proving popular....
    Reform should look at some of the policies that parties on the continent are using to attract younger voters and try to outflank the Tories.
    That is one way that we are unlike our continental neighbours. Our youngsters are on the other side of this Tory culture war, particularly the women. Reform is the only party in Britain with even worse age demographics than the Tories. Its double or quits on a losing hand.

    In part I think it that migration to Britain is 75 years old, but much more recent on the continent, so our youngsters have always known it, and our communities less segregated. Partly it is much lower unemployment particularly amongst the young.

    All the polling confirms this. Britons are one of the least racist nations in Europe, and numbers citing immigration as an issue much lower than old codgers like @Leon, or indeed the PB Median.
    Older liberals equating opposition to immigration with racism is quite self-serving because their financial interests are served by importing workers, but the financial interests of the young are different.

    I don't think you're right on the history either. There was post-war immigration to France, Germany, the Netherlands, etc, as well. What was unique about the UK was the fairly long period from the late 1960s to the late 1990s when net migration was around zero and it became a fringe issue.
    As much as you try to blame the younger generations problems on migration, that is bullshit. Our population is growing at a very slow rate compared to historical norms.

    The problem is the lack of construction, not migration.

    Especially since even without migration we'd still need construction that we aren't getting anyway.

    A family of 4 moving into the country only need one house between them. 6 grandchildren growing up and becoming adults require 6 houses between them.

    In the past decade our over 50s population has grown (net) by more than net migration. That's the real main reason why we need so many more houses
    Are you arguing that with a stable national population, we would still need to increase the number of houses exponentially because if you look at an individual nuclear family, there are more grandkids than kids?
    I am arguing that with a stable national population we would still need to increase the number of houses dramatically because if you look at national demographics our demographics are changing, yes.

    Children typically live with their parents. Parents typically live with their children. (Great-) Grandparents typically don't live with either.

    Even if our population numbers are stable, our demographics are not. People are living longer, we have more alive grandparents and great grandparents than ever before who are living in a house without any young people with them.

    We need massive construction because of demographics alone.
    Sounds like what we need is sheltered accommodation and care homes.
    Should people who are fit, healthy and able to live in their own home but are simply old be forced into sheltered accommodation in your eyes?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,493

    Goodwins loser polling says
    Exclusive polling from People Polling for GB News:
    Labour - 46 per cent
    Conservatives - 22 per cent
    Reform - 10 per cent
    Liberal Democrats - 8 per cent
    Green - 8 per cent

    Looks pretty much like the other polls despite the fact it’s from Loser Goodwin.
    Even this one is part of the herd now.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    edited June 3

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus wept! The Deltapoll has VI for 18 to 24 yo of 81% for Labour!!

    Natty Serves proving popular....
    Reform should look at some of the policies that parties on the continent are using to attract younger voters and try to outflank the Tories.
    That is one way that we are unlike our continental neighbours. Our youngsters are on the other side of this Tory culture war, particularly the women. Reform is the only party in Britain with even worse age demographics than the Tories. Its double or quits on a losing hand.

    In part I think it that migration to Britain is 75 years old, but much more recent on the continent, so our youngsters have always known it, and our communities less segregated. Partly it is much lower unemployment particularly amongst the young.

    All the polling confirms this. Britons are one of the least racist nations in Europe, and numbers citing immigration as an issue much lower than old codgers like @Leon, or indeed the PB Median.
    Older liberals equating opposition to immigration with racism is quite self-serving because their financial interests are served by importing workers, but the financial interests of the young are different.

    I don't think you're right on the history either. There was post-war immigration to France, Germany, the Netherlands, etc, as well. What was unique about the UK was the fairly long period from the late 1960s to the late 1990s when net migration was around zero and it became a fringe issue.
    As much as you try to blame the younger generations problems on migration, that is bullshit. Our population is growing at a very slow rate compared to historical norms.

    The problem is the lack of construction, not migration.

    Especially since even without migration we'd still need construction that we aren't getting anyway.

    A family of 4 moving into the country only need one house between them. 6 grandchildren growing up and becoming adults require 6 houses between them.

    In the past decade our over 50s population has grown (net) by more than net migration. That's the real main reason why we need so many more houses
    Are you arguing that with a stable national population, we would still need to increase the number of houses exponentially because if you look at an individual nuclear family, there are more grandkids than kids?
    I am arguing that with a stable national population we would still need to increase the number of houses dramatically because if you look at national demographics our demographics are changing, yes.

    Children typically live with their parents. Parents typically live with their children. (Great-) Grandparents typically don't live with either.

    Even if our population numbers are stable, our demographics are not. People are living longer, we have more alive grandparents and great grandparents than ever before who are living in a house without any young people with them.

    We need massive construction because of demographics alone.
    Sounds like what we need is sheltered accommodation and care homes.
    Should people who are fit, healthy and able to live in their own home but are simply old be forced into sheltered accommodation in your eyes?
    I suspect a lot of people would be better off long term if they moved to sheltered accommodation sooner rather than later..

    A lot of people leave things 1 or 2 years too late…
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061

    Foxy said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Shogun is the best tv series I have seen this year.

    Just a good story, and there is actual unpredictable danger of leading characters. Nobody is safe.

    And if "woke" stuff in modern tv / film (looks at Leon) something that really grinds your gears, there is none. No needless race or gender swapping characters, no Mary Sue girl bossing, no box ticking the character list to ensure it fits the awarding bodies criteria.

    Where as Assassin Creed video game seems to have walked straight into this minefield with their future game set in a similar time period.

    what channel /site is it on
    Disney+ (but it was made by FX who obviously made great shows like Justified, Sons of Anarchy, The Shield). Its not like most of the Disney+ shitfest.
    Cheers
    It based on a book that is a fictionalised set of stories of a real guy. The actual real story is crazier than the fiction.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Adams_(pilot)
    I recently watched a 2012 Russian adaptation of Bulgakov White Guard, on Prime, it managed the complexities of the civil war politics very well.

    In the first episode the Hetmen in Kiev lose the support of the Germans, so call up the Ukrainian Nationalist for support because the Ukrainian Socialists are closing in. After that it gets messy.
    That sounds interesting. What is it called?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Guard_(TV_series)

    It’s historically correct as the author was a White from Kiev, so it’s in part autobiographical. It also shows how complicated Ukraine actually is, as the Hetmen I think come from Ukrainian time in Polish Lithuanian empire, so not popular with Ukrainian nationals, but the socialist Petliura is not popular with the Whites who would rather have the Tsar back in Moscow and not a Ukraine republic. but as the Bolsheviks close in the Socialist turn to the poles for help.
    Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth, rather than empire.
    Though it was a commonwealth of the aristocracies - and what is now Ukraine had none.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,602
    Farage uses an Eminem track for his launch:

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1797707375501283409
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    nico679 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    DM_Andy said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    23m
    Tory campaign is on the brink of complete collapse tonight.

    Dan Hodges just goes for the laziest take possible. I think I trust the political judgement of everyone on PB over Hodges' latest bandwagon tweets.

    He’s overly dramatic . We’ve still got the manifestos to come and there’s a month to go . A lot can happen.
    All of it bad for the Tories...
    Very funny !

    I still think the Tories will recover somewhat .
    We're almost a third of the way into the campaign - at this point, I think they might consider themselves lucky if they recover to the polling position of two weeks ago!
  • DM_Andy said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    23m
    Tory campaign is on the brink of complete collapse tonight.

    Dan Hodges just goes for the laziest take possible. I think I trust the political judgement of everyone on PB over Hodges' latest bandwagon tweets.

    He has been completely wrong about Starmer and now Rayner and yet still goes on. It is BAFFLING people pay to read his shite.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,806
    Somewhere about half way between YouGov and MoreinCommon was where I thought it would end up.

    But it’s hard to gauge the impact of Farage. May not be as much as people expect.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813

    Seems the grown ups are having an evening off editing the BBC News front page. Major stories on meme stocks, Sidemen reality tv shows and a raisin found up a toddlers nose. Its like reading the Sun.

    That’s what it’s always like nowadays, I’m afraid to say
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    Nigelb said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Nigelb said:

    How to stop Farage in full flow.
    https://x.com/DUPleader/status/1797662088627994889/

    UK broadcasters should take note.

    I wish our local media had even half her balls.
    The gormless expression on his face at the end is priceless.
    To be truthful, I didn't notice any significant difference from his normal expression.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061

    Farage uses an Eminem track for his launch:

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1797707375501283409

    I would have preferred @Morris_Dancer 's giant catapult.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,976
    edited June 3

    Farage uses an Eminem track for his launch:

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1797707375501283409

    And by tomorrow, Eminem record label will have it pulled down for copyright infringement and make a statement about inclusivity and diversity and their values not at all aligned with Farage....and then Farage can make a big song and dance about DEI.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    The District of Columbia Court of Appeals Board of Professional Responsibility has recommended Rudy Giuliani be disbarred.
    https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24712562/2024-05-31-report-and-recommendation-of-the-board-on-professional-responsibility.pdf
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus wept! The Deltapoll has VI for 18 to 24 yo of 81% for Labour!!

    Natty Serves proving popular....
    Reform should look at some of the policies that parties on the continent are using to attract younger voters and try to outflank the Tories.
    That is one way that we are unlike our continental neighbours. Our youngsters are on the other side of this Tory culture war, particularly the women. Reform is the only party in Britain with even worse age demographics than the Tories. Its double or quits on a losing hand.

    In part I think it that migration to Britain is 75 years old, but much more recent on the continent, so our youngsters have always known it, and our communities less segregated. Partly it is much lower unemployment particularly amongst the young.

    All the polling confirms this. Britons are one of the least racist nations in Europe, and numbers citing immigration as an issue much lower than old codgers like @Leon, or indeed the PB Median.
    Older liberals equating opposition to immigration with racism is quite self-serving because their financial interests are served by importing workers, but the financial interests of the young are different.

    I don't think you're right on the history either. There was post-war immigration to France, Germany, the Netherlands, etc, as well. What was unique about the UK was the fairly long period from the late 1960s to the late 1990s when net migration was around zero and it became a fringe issue.
    As much as you try to blame the younger generations problems on migration, that is bullshit. Our population is growing at a very slow rate compared to historical norms.

    The problem is the lack of construction, not migration.

    Especially since even without migration we'd still need construction that we aren't getting anyway.

    A family of 4 moving into the country only need one house between them. 6 grandchildren growing up and becoming adults require 6 houses between them.

    In the past decade our over 50s population has grown (net) by more than net migration. That's the real main reason why we need so many more houses
    Are you arguing that with a stable national population, we would still need to increase the number of houses exponentially because if you look at an individual nuclear family, there are more grandkids than kids?
    I am arguing that with a stable national population we would still need to increase the number of houses dramatically because if you look at national demographics our demographics are changing, yes.

    Children typically live with their parents. Parents typically live with their children. (Great-) Grandparents typically don't live with either.

    Even if our population numbers are stable, our demographics are not. People are living longer, we have more alive grandparents and great grandparents than ever before who are living in a house without any young people with them.

    We need massive construction because of demographics alone.
    Sounds like what we need is sheltered accommodation and care homes.
    Should people who are fit, healthy and able to live in their own home but are simply old be forced into sheltered accommodation in your eyes?
    I suspect a lot of people would be better off long term if they moved to sheltered accommodation sooner rather than later..

    A lot of people leave things 1 or 2 years too late…
    Some, maybe.

    While a lot of other people are fit and better off in their own home.

    And we're talking a difference of many decades in most cases between kids leaving home and being old enough to require a care home. I suspect most people who live in care homes today, their own grandchildren are old enough to require their own homes.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    DM_Andy said:

    I'm not so sure that, even after today's frenetic headlines, Reform will have much of an impact come polling day. They're essentially a one-man band supplemented by Lee Anderson. Tice has made no headway, personally, at all. What else have they got? Ann Widdecombe? Which also leads me to suggest that Reform is very much a 'laddish' party that is likely to have limited appeal to women voters (though I confess I haven't seen any male/female breakdown of support for Reform - it's just a gut feeling).

    Is the Moggster's sister standing for the ReFukkers? Against her bro would be entertaining.
    Annie's back in the Tory fold now, part of Truss's PopCon faction.
    I'm sick and tired of pop corn! Oh, you said PopCon?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    edited June 3
    Seems Penny Mordaunt is deputising for Sunak and Angela Rayner for Starmer, no doubt with Farage for Reform, in the 7 leader debate
  • I have a suite of policies the Tories could introduce to appeal to voters like me but I feel they think I'm a leftwing idiot snowflake.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,976
    edited June 3
    Nigelb said:

    The District of Columbia Court of Appeals Board of Professional Responsibility has recommended Rudy Giuliani be disbarred.
    https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24712562/2024-05-31-report-and-recommendation-of-the-board-on-professional-responsibility.pdf

    Who the hell is hiring him to represent them these days?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Off topic: Those interested in Boeing's failures may want to read a long article in yesterday's Seattle Times, by Dominic Gates, who has been covering Boeing approximately forever. (And well, as far as I can tell.) Gates has much from a senior quality control engineer, Martin Bickeboller, who is quitting (and suing Boeing). In his first 27 years with the company, the engineer's lawyer says his devotion to safety never conflicted with his loyalty to Boeing, but then things changed, gradually.

    (No link, since I have the dead tree version.)

    Article is paywalled, but here are excerpts:

    Seattle Times ($) - Boeing whistleblower has waited a decade for change, now expects to leave

    For senior Boeing engineer and whistleblower Martin Bickeböller, a 37-year career at the jet maker is coming to a frustrating end.

    For a decade, in complaints filed internally at Boeing as well as with the Federal Aviation Administration and Congress, Bickeböller documented significant shortfalls in Boeing’s quality control management at suppliers that build major sections of the 787 Dreamliner.

    The FAA substantiated his claims in complaints in 2014 and 2021 and required Boeing to take corrective action. His latest complaint, submitted in January, alleges Boeing has not properly implemented the fixes it committed to after those earlier complaints.

    Bickeböller doesn’t point to a single safety issue but rather to a systemically flawed oversight process.

    He asserts that Boeing lacks control of the manufacturing processes at its suppliers to the extent that it cannot ensure — as safety regulations require — that every plane delivered meets design specifications.

    On Thursday, Boeing presented a plan to the FAA for a comprehensive overhaul of its management of safety and quality. Bickeböller’s allegations suggest the necessary changes will have to reach deep into Boeing’s quality control systems throughout the supply chain.

    And Bickeböller’s perception that he’s been penalized for his complaints underlines the difficulty of Boeing’s current effort to encourage employees to speak up about safety issues. . . .
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,976

    Seems Penny Mordaunt is deputising for Sunak and Angela Rayner for Starmer, no doubt with Farage for Reform, in the 7 leader debate

    I will be busy washing my hair that evening....
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,517
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus wept! The Deltapoll has VI for 18 to 24 yo of 81% for Labour!!

    Natty Serves proving popular....
    Reform should look at some of the policies that parties on the continent are using to attract younger voters and try to outflank the Tories.
    That is one way that we are unlike our continental neighbours. Our youngsters are on the other side of this Tory culture war, particularly the women. Reform is the only party in Britain with even worse age demographics than the Tories. Its double or quits on a losing hand.

    In part I think it that migration to Britain is 75 years old, but much more recent on the continent, so our youngsters have always known it, and our communities less segregated. Partly it is much lower unemployment particularly amongst the young.

    All the polling confirms this. Britons are one of the least racist nations in Europe, and numbers citing immigration as an issue much lower than old codgers like @Leon, or indeed the PB Median.
    Older liberals equating opposition to immigration with racism is quite self-serving because their financial interests are served by importing workers, but the financial interests of the young are different.

    I don't think you're right on the history either. There was post-war immigration to France, Germany, the Netherlands, etc, as well. What was unique about the UK was the fairly long period from the late 1960s to the late 1990s when net migration was around zero and it became a fringe issue.
    As much as you try to blame the younger generations problems on migration, that is bullshit. Our population is growing at a very slow rate compared to historical norms.

    The problem is the lack of construction, not migration.

    Especially since even without migration we'd still need construction that we aren't getting anyway.

    A family of 4 moving into the country only need one house between them. 6 grandchildren growing up and becoming adults require 6 houses between them.

    In the past decade our over 50s population has grown (net) by more than net migration. That's the real main reason why we need so many more houses
    Are you arguing that with a stable national population, we would still need to increase the number of houses exponentially because if you look at an individual nuclear family, there are more grandkids than kids?
    I am arguing that with a stable national population we would still need to increase the number of houses dramatically because if you look at national demographics our demographics are changing, yes.

    Children typically live with their parents. Parents typically live with their children. (Great-) Grandparents typically don't live with either.

    Even if our population numbers are stable, our demographics are not. People are living longer, we have more alive grandparents and great grandparents than ever before who are living in a house without any young people with them.

    We need massive construction because of demographics alone.
    Sounds like what we need is sheltered accommodation and care homes.
    Should people who are fit, healthy and able to live in their own home but are simply old be forced into sheltered accommodation in your eyes?
    I suspect a lot of people would be better off long term if they moved to sheltered accommodation sooner rather than later..

    A lot of people leave things 1 or 2 years too late…
    Sheltered accomodation yes. But not care homes. As I mentioned last week I have seen the inside of a lot of (don't) care homes over the years and I would do everything in my power to prevent my loved ones going into one.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,647
    edited June 3
    I really think we should start to consider that the polls will not narrow.

    Sunak should have called the election as soon as he took over. In hindsight Johnson should have gone in summer 2021...

    (Actually less hindsight for one @CorrectHorseBattery who called the peak of Johnsonism)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    edited June 3
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus wept! The Deltapoll has VI for 18 to 24 yo of 81% for Labour!!

    Natty Serves proving popular....
    Reform should look at some of the policies that parties on the continent are using to attract younger voters and try to outflank the Tories.
    That is one way that we are unlike our continental neighbours. Our youngsters are on the other side of this Tory culture war, particularly the women. Reform is the only party in Britain with even worse age demographics than the Tories. Its double or quits on a losing hand.

    In part I think it that migration to Britain is 75 years old, but much more recent on the continent, so our youngsters have always known it, and our communities less segregated. Partly it is much lower unemployment particularly amongst the young.

    All the polling confirms this. Britons are one of the least racist nations in Europe, and numbers citing immigration as an issue much lower than old codgers like @Leon, or indeed the PB Median.
    Older liberals equating opposition to immigration with racism is quite self-serving because their financial interests are served by importing workers, but the financial interests of the young are different.

    I don't think you're right on the history either. There was post-war immigration to France, Germany, the Netherlands, etc, as well. What was unique about the UK was the fairly long period from the late 1960s to the late 1990s when net migration was around zero and it became a fringe issue.
    As much as you try to blame the younger generations problems on migration, that is bullshit. Our population is growing at a very slow rate compared to historical norms.

    The problem is the lack of construction, not migration.

    Especially since even without migration we'd still need construction that we aren't getting anyway.

    A family of 4 moving into the country only need one house between them. 6 grandchildren growing up and becoming adults require 6 houses between them.

    In the past decade our over 50s population has grown (net) by more than net migration. That's the real main reason why we need so many more houses
    Are you arguing that with a stable national population, we would still need to increase the number of houses exponentially because if you look at an individual nuclear family, there are more grandkids than kids?
    I am arguing that with a stable national population we would still need to increase the number of houses dramatically because if you look at national demographics our demographics are changing, yes.

    Children typically live with their parents. Parents typically live with their children. (Great-) Grandparents typically don't live with either.

    Even if our population numbers are stable, our demographics are not. People are living longer, we have more alive grandparents and great grandparents than ever before who are living in a house without any young people with them.

    We need massive construction because of demographics alone.
    Sounds like what we need is sheltered accommodation and care homes.
    Should people who are fit, healthy and able to live in their own home but are simply old be forced into sheltered accommodation in your eyes?
    I suspect a lot of people would be better off long term if they moved to sheltered accommodation sooner rather than later..

    A lot of people leave things 1 or 2 years too late…
    Yes - I think it can be based on a vanity, and an unwillingness to look in the mirror. And there is a far greater range of types of sheltered, or semi-sheltered accommodation available over the last 25 years. It's easily to get shafted when it is sold on if purchased, however.

    We had a different version of that issue.

    Dad declared he was going to die in the (quite isolated) house he and mum had renovated and been in for 35 years. And he did.

    Which then took us 18 months to clear - it was big enough he never had to throw anything away. And a further 18 months to sell (2012-3).

    So mum moved with me as 'carer' into a place within walking distance of everything needed, which served her well and I will be keeping it as I have long term diabetic complications to consider, which could potentially include impaired vision / mobility.

    What I need is a 2nd home on the coast :-).
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,656
    YouGov is forecasting:
    -
    @jeremycorbyn
    to get 8% in Islington N.
    -
    @georgegalloway
    to get 3% in Rochdale.
  • YouGov is forecasting:
    -
    @jeremycorbyn
    to get 8% in Islington N.
    -
    @georgegalloway
    to get 3% in Rochdale.

    Are you voting multiple times then?
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus wept! The Deltapoll has VI for 18 to 24 yo of 81% for Labour!!

    Natty Serves proving popular....
    Reform should look at some of the policies that parties on the continent are using to attract younger voters and try to outflank the Tories.
    That is one way that we are unlike our continental neighbours. Our youngsters are on the other side of this Tory culture war, particularly the women. Reform is the only party in Britain with even worse age demographics than the Tories. Its double or quits on a losing hand.

    In part I think it that migration to Britain is 75 years old, but much more recent on the continent, so our youngsters have always known it, and our communities less segregated. Partly it is much lower unemployment particularly amongst the young.

    All the polling confirms this. Britons are one of the least racist nations in Europe, and numbers citing immigration as an issue much lower than old codgers like @Leon, or indeed the PB Median.
    Older liberals equating opposition to immigration with racism is quite self-serving because their financial interests are served by importing workers, but the financial interests of the young are different.

    I don't think you're right on the history either. There was post-war immigration to France, Germany, the Netherlands, etc, as well. What was unique about the UK was the fairly long period from the late 1960s to the late 1990s when net migration was around zero and it became a fringe issue.
    As much as you try to blame the younger generations problems on migration, that is bullshit. Our population is growing at a very slow rate compared to historical norms.

    The problem is the lack of construction, not migration.

    Especially since even without migration we'd still need construction that we aren't getting anyway.

    A family of 4 moving into the country only need one house between them. 6 grandchildren growing up and becoming adults require 6 houses between them.

    In the past decade our over 50s population has grown (net) by more than net migration. That's the real main reason why we need so many more houses
    Are you arguing that with a stable national population, we would still need to increase the number of houses exponentially because if you look at an individual nuclear family, there are more grandkids than kids?
    I am arguing that with a stable national population we would still need to increase the number of houses dramatically because if you look at national demographics our demographics are changing, yes.

    Children typically live with their parents. Parents typically live with their children. (Great-) Grandparents typically don't live with either.

    Even if our population numbers are stable, our demographics are not. People are living longer, we have more alive grandparents and great grandparents than ever before who are living in a house without any young people with them.

    We need massive construction because of demographics alone.
    Sounds like what we need is sheltered accommodation and care homes.
    Should people who are fit, healthy and able to live in their own home but are simply old be forced into sheltered accommodation in your eyes?
    I suspect a lot of people would be better off long term if they moved to sheltered accommodation sooner rather than later..

    A lot of people leave things 1 or 2 years too late…
    Sheltered accomodation yes. But not care homes. As I mentioned last week I have seen the inside of a lot of (don't) care homes over the years and I would do everything in my power to prevent my loved ones going into one.
    It'll be much better when it's a bunch of conscripted 18 year olds giving the care.

  • eekeek Posts: 28,366

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus wept! The Deltapoll has VI for 18 to 24 yo of 81% for Labour!!

    Natty Serves proving popular....
    Reform should look at some of the policies that parties on the continent are using to attract younger voters and try to outflank the Tories.
    That is one way that we are unlike our continental neighbours. Our youngsters are on the other side of this Tory culture war, particularly the women. Reform is the only party in Britain with even worse age demographics than the Tories. Its double or quits on a losing hand.

    In part I think it that migration to Britain is 75 years old, but much more recent on the continent, so our youngsters have always known it, and our communities less segregated. Partly it is much lower unemployment particularly amongst the young.

    All the polling confirms this. Britons are one of the least racist nations in Europe, and numbers citing immigration as an issue much lower than old codgers like @Leon, or indeed the PB Median.
    Older liberals equating opposition to immigration with racism is quite self-serving because their financial interests are served by importing workers, but the financial interests of the young are different.

    I don't think you're right on the history either. There was post-war immigration to France, Germany, the Netherlands, etc, as well. What was unique about the UK was the fairly long period from the late 1960s to the late 1990s when net migration was around zero and it became a fringe issue.
    As much as you try to blame the younger generations problems on migration, that is bullshit. Our population is growing at a very slow rate compared to historical norms.

    The problem is the lack of construction, not migration.

    Especially since even without migration we'd still need construction that we aren't getting anyway.

    A family of 4 moving into the country only need one house between them. 6 grandchildren growing up and becoming adults require 6 houses between them.

    In the past decade our over 50s population has grown (net) by more than net migration. That's the real main reason why we need so many more houses
    Are you arguing that with a stable national population, we would still need to increase the number of houses exponentially because if you look at an individual nuclear family, there are more grandkids than kids?
    I am arguing that with a stable national population we would still need to increase the number of houses dramatically because if you look at national demographics our demographics are changing, yes.

    Children typically live with their parents. Parents typically live with their children. (Great-) Grandparents typically don't live with either.

    Even if our population numbers are stable, our demographics are not. People are living longer, we have more alive grandparents and great grandparents than ever before who are living in a house without any young people with them.

    We need massive construction because of demographics alone.
    Sounds like what we need is sheltered accommodation and care homes.
    Should people who are fit, healthy and able to live in their own home but are simply old be forced into sheltered accommodation in your eyes?
    I suspect a lot of people would be better off long term if they moved to sheltered accommodation sooner rather than later..

    A lot of people leave things 1 or 2 years too late…
    Sheltered accomodation yes. But not care homes. As I mentioned last week I have seen the inside of a lot of (don't) care homes over the years and I would do everything in my power to prevent my loved ones going into one.
    I suspect (although this is anecdotal rather than statistical) that people in sheltered accommodation are less likely to end up in care homes….
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    @Kevin_Maguire

    Move along please, nothing to see here 👀

    “TV debate coach who helped Rishi Sunak given £110,000 taxpayer-funded contract.”

    https://x.com/Kevin_Maguire/status/1797720121592455203
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407

    How low the Tories have sunk..... shitting themselves about a man who has failed to be elected 7 times and is not popular in polling with voters to any eye catching extent. Utter Clowns.

    Prediction: Farage is yesterday's news and won't shift the dial for Reform very much, even if he does stand and win in Clacton.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    YouGov is forecasting:
    -
    @jeremycorbyn
    to get 8% in Islington N.
    -
    @georgegalloway
    to get 3% in Rochdale.

    I think they themselves would say you have to apply realty filters where special conditions prevail in certain seats.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149

    YouGov is forecasting:
    -
    @jeremycorbyn
    to get 8% in Islington N.
    -
    @georgegalloway
    to get 3% in Rochdale.

    That's just a quirk of statistical modeling. Really hard to deal with a wildcard. See also Ashfield and the seats that were East Devon, where there were significant independents last time.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    edited June 3
    Pippa Crerar

    @PippaCrerar
    Oh dear. The Conservatives’ first election broadcast shows the union flag flying the wrong way up, which is a distress signal…

    https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/1797711070863466889

    And it’s one of those uncanny valley items where the picture just looks wrong but you can’t quite work out why until it’s pointed out
  • How low the Tories have sunk..... shitting themselves about a man who has failed to be elected 7 times and is not popular in polling with voters to any eye catching extent. Utter Clowns.

    Prediction: Farage is yesterday's news and won't shift the dial for Reform very much, even if he does stand and win in Clacton.
    This is what my gut says too.

    The person sinking the Tories is Sunak, as today's JL poll shows. People really do not like him when they learn more about him.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    geoffw said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus wept! The Deltapoll has VI for 18 to 24 yo of 81% for Labour!!

    Natty Serves proving popular....
    Nobody in that age group would be impacted by it.
    But they know better than anyone how they would feel about it happening now, and so despise the idea of it happening to people of their age in future.
    Not to mention they'll have younger siblings/friends/acquaintances etc whom it could be done to.
    Gen X have kids, Boomers have grandkids, the Lost generation have great grandkids.
    It's about age and the progressive scale.
    The Lost Generation is 1883 to 1900. I think you mean my Silent Generation, no?

    I’m a millennial but if I’d been born on my due date I’d have been Gen X.

    Who’s the real slacker here, huh?
  • So a referendum on the ECHR and then the death penalty next.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,546
    edited June 3
    Scott_xP said:

    Instead of watching the news this evening, i watch the TTOI episode when they called the Snappy Lec.

    Much more entertaining, with similar results

    Which episode was it? Can't find it on the list.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Thick_of_It_episodes
  • eek said:

    Pippa Crerar

    @PippaCrerar
    Oh dear. The Conservatives’ first election broadcast shows the union flag flying the wrong way up, which is a distress signal…

    https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/1797711070863466889

    And it’s one of those uncanny valley items where the picture just looks but you can’t quite work out why until it’s pointed out

    How is this happening? Is somebody inside CCHQ a Labour plant?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,517
    DM_Andy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus wept! The Deltapoll has VI for 18 to 24 yo of 81% for Labour!!

    Natty Serves proving popular....
    Reform should look at some of the policies that parties on the continent are using to attract younger voters and try to outflank the Tories.
    That is one way that we are unlike our continental neighbours. Our youngsters are on the other side of this Tory culture war, particularly the women. Reform is the only party in Britain with even worse age demographics than the Tories. Its double or quits on a losing hand.

    In part I think it that migration to Britain is 75 years old, but much more recent on the continent, so our youngsters have always known it, and our communities less segregated. Partly it is much lower unemployment particularly amongst the young.

    All the polling confirms this. Britons are one of the least racist nations in Europe, and numbers citing immigration as an issue much lower than old codgers like @Leon, or indeed the PB Median.
    Older liberals equating opposition to immigration with racism is quite self-serving because their financial interests are served by importing workers, but the financial interests of the young are different.

    I don't think you're right on the history either. There was post-war immigration to France, Germany, the Netherlands, etc, as well. What was unique about the UK was the fairly long period from the late 1960s to the late 1990s when net migration was around zero and it became a fringe issue.
    As much as you try to blame the younger generations problems on migration, that is bullshit. Our population is growing at a very slow rate compared to historical norms.

    The problem is the lack of construction, not migration.

    Especially since even without migration we'd still need construction that we aren't getting anyway.

    A family of 4 moving into the country only need one house between them. 6 grandchildren growing up and becoming adults require 6 houses between them.

    In the past decade our over 50s population has grown (net) by more than net migration. That's the real main reason why we need so many more houses
    Are you arguing that with a stable national population, we would still need to increase the number of houses exponentially because if you look at an individual nuclear family, there are more grandkids than kids?
    I am arguing that with a stable national population we would still need to increase the number of houses dramatically because if you look at national demographics our demographics are changing, yes.

    Children typically live with their parents. Parents typically live with their children. (Great-) Grandparents typically don't live with either.

    Even if our population numbers are stable, our demographics are not. People are living longer, we have more alive grandparents and great grandparents than ever before who are living in a house without any young people with them.

    We need massive construction because of demographics alone.
    Sounds like what we need is sheltered accommodation and care homes.
    Should people who are fit, healthy and able to live in their own home but are simply old be forced into sheltered accommodation in your eyes?
    I suspect a lot of people would be better off long term if they moved to sheltered accommodation sooner rather than later..

    A lot of people leave things 1 or 2 years too late…
    Sheltered accomodation yes. But not care homes. As I mentioned last week I have seen the inside of a lot of (don't) care homes over the years and I would do everything in my power to prevent my loved ones going into one.
    It'll be much better when it's a bunch of conscripted 18 year olds giving the care.

    I wonder if it could be any worse. At least they might have a twang of conscience about letting those in their care starve to death.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Seems the grown ups are having an evening off editing the BBC News front page. Major stories on meme stocks, Sidemen reality tv shows and a raisin found up a toddlers nose. Its like reading the Sun.

    That’s what it’s always like nowadays, I’m afraid to say
    Yes, it’s serial garbage. Sky, C4 and even ITV News are superior. The morning coverage is the worst: it’s like reading a village newsletter at times.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,976
    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Instead of watching the news this evening, i watch the TTOI episode when they called the Snappy Lec.

    Much more entertaining, with similar results

    Which episode was it? Can't find it on the list.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Thick_of_It_episodes
    Its the 2007 specials.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,697
    I think this is correct. When Starmer fails - what will replace his administration?


    Luke Tryl
    @LukeTryl
    ·
    1h
    Obviously many will think existential threat to the Tories a good thing & many problems are of their own making. A caution though is careful what you wish for. I think many of those most happy at a Tory implosion would dislike more the potential options for what replaces it

    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/1797699289382264861
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    YouGov is forecasting:
    -
    @jeremycorbyn
    to get 8% in Islington N.
    -
    @georgegalloway
    to get 3% in Rochdale.

    That would be very disappointing for them both, but epically so for Galloway. Corbyn is looking to draw on a personal vote, but Galloway seemed to believe (or to appear to believe) that his by-election win presaged some epic realignment.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    How low the Tories have sunk..... shitting themselves about a man who has failed to be elected 7 times and is not popular in polling with voters to any eye catching extent. Utter Clowns.

    Prediction: Farage is yesterday's news and won't shift the dial for Reform very much, even if he does stand and win in Clacton.
    Yeah I can see a case for suggesting that Farage will cause a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    eek said:

    Pippa Crerar

    @PippaCrerar
    Oh dear. The Conservatives’ first election broadcast shows the union flag flying the wrong way up, which is a distress signal…

    https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/1797711070863466889

    And it’s one of those uncanny valley items where the picture just looks but you can’t quite work out why until it’s pointed out

    Not as if the flag is seen from the other side, either, when that is to be expected.

    What next, 14 ounces to the pound and 16 pounds to the stone to be announced in the manifesto?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,976
    edited June 3

    eek said:

    Pippa Crerar

    @PippaCrerar
    Oh dear. The Conservatives’ first election broadcast shows the union flag flying the wrong way up, which is a distress signal…

    https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/1797711070863466889

    And it’s one of those uncanny valley items where the picture just looks but you can’t quite work out why until it’s pointed out

    How is this happening? Is somebody inside CCHQ a Labour plant?
    Well Labour put out one with spelling mistakes. You just can't get the staff these days. I blame it on all those mickey mouse degrees ;-)

    What is very strange is when we think about Sunak launch for leadership, it was super slick. The criticism was it was too slick and there were media pieces about his PR team all being very clever and savvy. And then people saw him in person in the debates and he was shit.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    AlsoLei said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus wept! The Deltapoll has VI for 18 to 24 yo of 81% for Labour!!

    Natty Serves proving popular....
    Reform should look at some of the policies that parties on the continent are using to attract younger voters and try to outflank the Tories.
    That is one way that we are unlike our continental neighbours. Our youngsters are on the other side of this Tory culture war, particularly the women. Reform is the only party in Britain with even worse age demographics than the Tories. Its double or quits on a losing hand.

    In part I think it that migration to Britain is 75 years old, but much more recent on the continent, so our youngsters have always known it, and our communities less segregated. Partly it is much lower unemployment particularly amongst the young.

    All the polling confirms this. Britons are one of the least racist nations in Europe, and numbers citing immigration as an issue much lower than old codgers like @Leon, or indeed the PB Median.
    Older liberals equating opposition to immigration with racism is quite self-serving because their financial interests are served by importing workers, but the financial interests of the young are different.

    I don't think you're right on the history either. There was post-war immigration to France, Germany, the Netherlands, etc, as well. What was unique about the UK was the fairly long period from the late 1960s to the late 1990s when net migration was around zero and it became a fringe issue.
    As much as you try to blame the younger generations problems on migration, that is bullshit. Our population is growing at a very slow rate compared to historical norms.

    The problem is the lack of construction, not migration.

    Especially since even without migration we'd still need construction that we aren't getting anyway.

    A family of 4 moving into the country only need one house between them. 6 grandchildren growing up and becoming adults require 6 houses between them.

    In the past decade our over 50s population has grown (net) by more than net migration. That's the real main reason why we need so many more houses
    Are you arguing that with a stable national population, we would still need to increase the number of houses exponentially because if you look at an individual nuclear family, there are more grandkids than kids?
    I am arguing that with a stable national population we would still need to increase the number of houses dramatically because if you look at national demographics our demographics are changing, yes.

    Children typically live with their parents. Parents typically live with their children. (Great-) Grandparents typically don't live with either.

    Even if our population numbers are stable, our demographics are not. People are living longer, we have more alive grandparents and great grandparents than ever before who are living in a house without any young people with them.

    We need massive construction because of demographics alone.
    Sounds like what we need is sheltered accommodation and care homes.
    I'd expect demand for both to explode as the boomers start to get old enough to require them, yes. Social care, too - and we've probably now left it too late to reform until after the boomer bulge has passed.

    This probably has major repercussions for local government finances over the next couple of decades.
    Sheltered accommodation and care homes are already huge industries.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    edited June 3

    eek said:

    Pippa Crerar

    @PippaCrerar
    Oh dear. The Conservatives’ first election broadcast shows the union flag flying the wrong way up, which is a distress signal…

    https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/1797711070863466889

    And it’s one of those uncanny valley items where the picture just looks but you can’t quite work out why until it’s pointed out

    How is this happening? Is somebody inside CCHQ a Labour plant?
    Remember the theory that the entirety of No 10’s press office hate Rishi, I’m starting to wonder if most people who work with him end up hating him…
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus wept! The Deltapoll has VI for 18 to 24 yo of 81% for Labour!!

    Natty Serves proving popular....
    Reform should look at some of the policies that parties on the continent are using to attract younger voters and try to outflank the Tories.
    That is one way that we are unlike our continental neighbours. Our youngsters are on the other side of this Tory culture war, particularly the women. Reform is the only party in Britain with even worse age demographics than the Tories. Its double or quits on a losing hand.

    In part I think it that migration to Britain is 75 years old, but much more recent on the continent, so our youngsters have always known it, and our communities less segregated. Partly it is much lower unemployment particularly amongst the young.

    All the polling confirms this. Britons are one of the least racist nations in Europe, and numbers citing immigration as an issue much lower than old codgers like @Leon, or indeed the PB Median.
    Older liberals equating opposition to immigration with racism is quite self-serving because their financial interests are served by importing workers, but the financial interests of the young are different.

    I don't think you're right on the history either. There was post-war immigration to France, Germany, the Netherlands, etc, as well. What was unique about the UK was the fairly long period from the late 1960s to the late 1990s when net migration was around zero and it became a fringe issue.
    As much as you try to blame the younger generations problems on migration, that is bullshit. Our population is growing at a very slow rate compared to historical norms.

    The problem is the lack of construction, not migration.

    Especially since even without migration we'd still need construction that we aren't getting anyway.

    A family of 4 moving into the country only need one house between them. 6 grandchildren growing up and becoming adults require 6 houses between them.

    In the past decade our over 50s population has grown (net) by more than net migration. That's the real main reason why we need so many more houses
    Are you arguing that with a stable national population, we would still need to increase the number of houses exponentially because if you look at an individual nuclear family, there are more grandkids than kids?
    I am arguing that with a stable national population we would still need to increase the number of houses dramatically because if you look at national demographics our demographics are changing, yes.

    Children typically live with their parents. Parents typically live with their children. (Great-) Grandparents typically don't live with either.

    Even if our population numbers are stable, our demographics are not. People are living longer, we have more alive grandparents and great grandparents than ever before who are living in a house without any young people with them.

    We need massive construction because of demographics alone.
    Sounds like what we need is sheltered accommodation and care homes.
    Should people who are fit, healthy and able to live in their own home but are simply old be forced into sheltered accommodation in your eyes?
    I suspect a lot of people would be better off long term if they moved to sheltered accommodation sooner rather than later..

    A lot of people leave things 1 or 2 years too late…
    Sheltered accomodation yes. But not care homes. As I mentioned last week I have seen the inside of a lot of (don't) care homes over the years and I would do everything in my power to prevent my loved ones going into one.
    I would just comment that we have lived in our home for 48 years and the youngest of our 3 children was just 18 months old when we moved in

    It is the family home and is far too big for us, but we will not move from it and indeed our children and grandchildren would do whatever they could to keep us in our home

    Someday, maybe soon, a life changing event will happen to my wife and I, but even then it is possible our youngest may buy his siblings out and continue it as the family home
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407

    Conservative PEB has an upside down Union Flag at 2'20" and more CGI face removal than last week's Doctor Who
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zynd7r8Owpc&t=140s

    That's really confusing.

    What's with the doom-laden Presbyterian Scot narrating it? Why isn't it Sunak?

    And why doesn't it each feature real people?

    Shit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    How low the Tories have sunk..... shitting themselves about a man who has failed to be elected 7 times and is not popular in polling with voters to any eye catching extent. Utter Clowns.

    Prediction: Farage is yesterday's news and won't shift the dial for Reform very much, even if he does stand and win in Clacton.
    That would probably be the funniest outcome, in that it would mean he did not gain any significant influence for Reform but was now expected to endure the slog of being a backbench MP - unless you go full O'Mara even the lazier ones have to do a lot of mundane things.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus wept! The Deltapoll has VI for 18 to 24 yo of 81% for Labour!!

    Natty Serves proving popular....
    Reform should look at some of the policies that parties on the continent are using to attract younger voters and try to outflank the Tories.
    That is one way that we are unlike our continental neighbours. Our youngsters are on the other side of this Tory culture war, particularly the women. Reform is the only party in Britain with even worse age demographics than the Tories. Its double or quits on a losing hand.

    In part I think it that migration to Britain is 75 years old, but much more recent on the continent, so our youngsters have always known it, and our communities less segregated. Partly it is much lower unemployment particularly amongst the young.

    All the polling confirms this. Britons are one of the least racist nations in Europe, and numbers citing immigration as an issue much lower than old codgers like @Leon, or indeed the PB Median.
    Older liberals equating opposition to immigration with racism is quite self-serving because their financial interests are served by importing workers, but the financial interests of the young are different.

    I don't think you're right on the history either. There was post-war immigration to France, Germany, the Netherlands, etc, as well. What was unique about the UK was the fairly long period from the late 1960s to the late 1990s when net migration was around zero and it became a fringe issue.
    As much as you try to blame the younger generations problems on migration, that is bullshit. Our population is growing at a very slow rate compared to historical norms.

    The problem is the lack of construction, not migration.

    Especially since even without migration we'd still need construction that we aren't getting anyway.

    A family of 4 moving into the country only need one house between them. 6 grandchildren growing up and becoming adults require 6 houses between them.

    In the past decade our over 50s population has grown (net) by more than net migration. That's the real main reason why we need so many more houses
    Are you arguing that with a stable national population, we would still need to increase the number of houses exponentially because if you look at an individual nuclear family, there are more grandkids than kids?
    I am arguing that with a stable national population we would still need to increase the number of houses dramatically because if you look at national demographics our demographics are changing, yes.

    Children typically live with their parents. Parents typically live with their children. (Great-) Grandparents typically don't live with either.

    Even if our population numbers are stable, our demographics are not. People are living longer, we have more alive grandparents and great grandparents than ever before who are living in a house without any young people with them.

    We need massive construction because of demographics alone.
    Sounds like what we need is sheltered accommodation and care homes.
    Should people who are fit, healthy and able to live in their own home but are simply old be forced into sheltered accommodation in your eyes?
    I suspect a lot of people would be better off long term if they moved to sheltered accommodation sooner rather than later..

    A lot of people leave things 1 or 2 years too late…
    Sheltered accomodation yes. But not care homes. As I mentioned last week I have seen the inside of a lot of (don't) care homes over the years and I would do everything in my power to prevent my loved ones going into one.
    I suspect (although this is anecdotal rather than statistical) that people in sheltered accommodation are less likely to end up in care homes….
    I suspect it varies dramatically from individual to individual.

    My grandad passed earlier this year, he was still living in his own home until 93 and was fit and healthy (for a 93 year old) until he suddenly deteriorated very fast. Cancer we're pretty certain but by the time it was discovered he was too frail to have a biopsy.

    He never needed one, even in his nineties, but others can need one in their sixties or seventies. There's no hard and fast rules.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,546
    edited June 3
    Chameleon said:

    I don't understand who'd vote for the Tories? If you like the right wing rhetoric you'd look at the Tory Party's record immigration and culture war capitulation and go for Reform (this is before you factor in the fact that Farage is far better at speeches).

    If you don't like the rhetoric you're going LD or Lab.

    Yep, right-wing rhetoric mixed with centrist policies is a recipe for electoral disaster. Pleases no-one.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,546

    I really think we should start to consider that the polls will not narrow.

    Sunak should have called the election as soon as he took over. In hindsight Johnson should have gone in summer 2021...

    (Actually less hindsight for one @CorrectHorseBattery who called the peak of Johnsonism)

    The peak of Johnsonism was fairly obviously the day after the Hartlepool by-election. He should have called another general election then, despite it being less than 2 years since the previous one.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    I think this is correct. When Starmer fails - what will replace his administration?


    Luke Tryl
    @LukeTryl
    ·
    1h
    Obviously many will think existential threat to the Tories a good thing & many problems are of their own making. A caution though is careful what you wish for. I think many of those most happy at a Tory implosion would dislike more the potential options for what replaces it

    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/1797699289382264861

    I'm all for looking ahead but it is hard to predict that level of detail before Starmer even has a chance to take over let alone fail.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    How low the Tories have sunk..... shitting themselves about a man who has failed to be elected 7 times and is not popular in polling with voters to any eye catching extent. Utter Clowns.

    Prediction: Farage is yesterday's news and won't shift the dial for Reform very much, even if he does stand and win in Clacton.
    I'm unsure on that one - one one hand you have a hugely attention grabbing strong orator who Tory voters like against an internally unpopular failure of a politician who is just a campaigning horror show having to defend 14 years of failure. It may not happen, but the conditions are right for things to go very wrong for the Tories.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    kle4 said:

    YouGov is forecasting:
    -
    @jeremycorbyn
    to get 8% in Islington N.
    -
    @georgegalloway
    to get 3% in Rochdale.

    That would be very disappointing for them both, but epically so for Galloway. Corbyn is looking to draw on a personal vote, but Galloway seemed to believe (or to appear to believe) that his by-election win presaged some epic realignment.
    There's zero chance Galloway loses his deposit. He has a reasonable chance of holding the seat
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Seems Penny Mordaunt is deputising for Sunak and Angela Rayner for Starmer, no doubt with Farage for Reform, in the 7 leader debate

    I will be busy washing my hair that evening....
    With RAYNER and PENNY on, many PBers will be glued to the telly.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,546
    edited June 3

    So a referendum on the ECHR and then the death penalty next.

    Interestingly, Nigel Farage has always been personally against the death penalty. (Probably doesn't reflect the views of most of his party members).
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,895
    TimS said:

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus wept! The Deltapoll has VI for 18 to 24 yo of 81% for Labour!!

    Natty Serves proving popular....
    Nobody in that age group would be impacted by it.
    Speak to them about it though. They hate the idea. They don't like being told that their degrees are "Mickey Mouse" either.
    Interesting you should talk about a Micky Mouse degree. They interviewed someone from Bristol about their BA course in Circus Arts.

    I loved the idea!

    We can't all be ballroom dancers
    They take this stuff more seriously in France. My neighbour over there had a clowning degree having studied under the great someone or other at some elite clowning academy.
    Jerome Murat. Genius

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=jerome+murat#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:8ad4d393,vid:wkCmmuiDFcg,st:0
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    kle4 said:

    How low the Tories have sunk..... shitting themselves about a man who has failed to be elected 7 times and is not popular in polling with voters to any eye catching extent. Utter Clowns.

    Prediction: Farage is yesterday's news and won't shift the dial for Reform very much, even if he does stand and win in Clacton.
    That would probably be the funniest outcome, in that it would mean he did not gain any significant influence for Reform but was now expected to endure the slog of being a backbench MP - unless you go full O'Mara even the lazier ones have to do a lot of mundane things.
    Suspect that Nigel Farage MP might just give I.T Trebitsch Lincoln MP and Horatio Bottomley a run for their (or rather, others') money.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457

    How low the Tories have sunk..... shitting themselves about a man who has failed to be elected 7 times and is not popular in polling with voters to any eye catching extent. Utter Clowns.

    Prediction: Farage is yesterday's news and won't shift the dial for Reform very much, even if he does stand and win in Clacton.
    I suspect the biggest effect might be to make the CCHQ campaign team panic, which could result in further missteps becoming more likely.

    Tory candidates would be well advised to ignore them, keep their heads down, and concentrate on working their own patch as hard as they can.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    edited June 3

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus wept! The Deltapoll has VI for 18 to 24 yo of 81% for Labour!!

    Natty Serves proving popular....
    Reform should look at some of the policies that parties on the continent are using to attract younger voters and try to outflank the Tories.
    That is one way that we are unlike our continental neighbours. Our youngsters are on the other side of this Tory culture war, particularly the women. Reform is the only party in Britain with even worse age demographics than the Tories. Its double or quits on a losing hand.

    In part I think it that migration to Britain is 75 years old, but much more recent on the continent, so our youngsters have always known it, and our communities less segregated. Partly it is much lower unemployment particularly amongst the young.

    All the polling confirms this. Britons are one of the least racist nations in Europe, and numbers citing immigration as an issue much lower than old codgers like @Leon, or indeed the PB Median.
    Older liberals equating opposition to immigration with racism is quite self-serving because their financial interests are served by importing workers, but the financial interests of the young are different.

    I don't think you're right on the history either. There was post-war immigration to France, Germany, the Netherlands, etc, as well. What was unique about the UK was the fairly long period from the late 1960s to the late 1990s when net migration was around zero and it became a fringe issue.
    As much as you try to blame the younger generations problems on migration, that is bullshit. Our population is growing at a very slow rate compared to historical norms.

    The problem is the lack of construction, not migration.

    Especially since even without migration we'd still need construction that we aren't getting anyway.

    A family of 4 moving into the country only need one house between them. 6 grandchildren growing up and becoming adults require 6 houses between them.

    In the past decade our over 50s population has grown (net) by more than net migration. That's the real main reason why we need so many more houses
    Are you arguing that with a stable national population, we would still need to increase the number of houses exponentially because if you look at an individual nuclear family, there are more grandkids than kids?
    I am arguing that with a stable national population we would still need to increase the number of houses dramatically because if you look at national demographics our demographics are changing, yes.

    Children typically live with their parents. Parents typically live with their children. (Great-) Grandparents typically don't live with either.

    Even if our population numbers are stable, our demographics are not. People are living longer, we have more alive grandparents and great grandparents than ever before who are living in a house without any young people with them.

    We need massive construction because of demographics alone.
    Sounds like what we need is sheltered accommodation and care homes.
    Should people who are fit, healthy and able to live in their own home but are simply old be forced into sheltered accommodation in your eyes?
    I suspect a lot of people would be better off long term if they moved to sheltered accommodation sooner rather than later..

    A lot of people leave things 1 or 2 years too late…
    Sheltered accomodation yes. But not care homes. As I mentioned last week I have seen the inside of a lot of (don't) care homes over the years and I would do everything in my power to prevent my loved ones going into one.
    I would just comment that we have lived in our home for 48 years and the youngest of our 3 children was just 18 months old when we moved in

    It is the family home and is far too big for us, but we will not move from it and indeed our children and grandchildren would do whatever they could to keep us in our home

    Someday, maybe soon, a life changing event will happen to my wife and I, but even then it is possible our youngest may buy his siblings out and continue it as the family home
    And this is what @williamglenn doesn't get.

    There's absolutely nothing wrong with you continuing to live in your family home, good for you. But other people also need family homes and that means we need massive construction, even without any population changes just due to demographic changes.

    Do you mind if I ask how many years ago it was when your last child moved out of the home? Unlike in the past its not unusual now for people to live in what was their family home for decades beyond their children no longer living there and we need construction for the children to have somewhere to live.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    The District of Columbia Court of Appeals Board of Professional Responsibility has recommended Rudy Giuliani be disbarred.
    https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24712562/2024-05-31-report-and-recommendation-of-the-board-on-professional-responsibility.pdf

    Nigelb said:

    The District of Columbia Court of Appeals Board of Professional Responsibility has recommended Rudy Giuliani be disbarred.
    https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24712562/2024-05-31-report-and-recommendation-of-the-board-on-professional-responsibility.pdf

    Who the hell is hiring him to represent them these days?
    Only deadbeats like DJT - who have no intention of paying him anyway.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    AlsoLei said:

    I suspect the biggest effect might be to make the CCHQ campaign team panic, which could result in further missteps becoming more likely.

    How will we tell?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    MattW said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus wept! The Deltapoll has VI for 18 to 24 yo of 81% for Labour!!

    Natty Serves proving popular....
    Reform should look at some of the policies that parties on the continent are using to attract younger voters and try to outflank the Tories.
    That is one way that we are unlike our continental neighbours. Our youngsters are on the other side of this Tory culture war, particularly the women. Reform is the only party in Britain with even worse age demographics than the Tories. Its double or quits on a losing hand.

    In part I think it that migration to Britain is 75 years old, but much more recent on the continent, so our youngsters have always known it, and our communities less segregated. Partly it is much lower unemployment particularly amongst the young.

    All the polling confirms this. Britons are one of the least racist nations in Europe, and numbers citing immigration as an issue much lower than old codgers like @Leon, or indeed the PB Median.
    Older liberals equating opposition to immigration with racism is quite self-serving because their financial interests are served by importing workers, but the financial interests of the young are different.

    I don't think you're right on the history either. There was post-war immigration to France, Germany, the Netherlands, etc, as well. What was unique about the UK was the fairly long period from the late 1960s to the late 1990s when net migration was around zero and it became a fringe issue.
    As much as you try to blame the younger generations problems on migration, that is bullshit. Our population is growing at a very slow rate compared to historical norms.

    The problem is the lack of construction, not migration.

    Especially since even without migration we'd still need construction that we aren't getting anyway.

    A family of 4 moving into the country only need one house between them. 6 grandchildren growing up and becoming adults require 6 houses between them.

    In the past decade our over 50s population has grown (net) by more than net migration. That's the real main reason why we need so many more houses
    Are you arguing that with a stable national population, we would still need to increase the number of houses exponentially because if you look at an individual nuclear family, there are more grandkids than kids?
    I am arguing that with a stable national population we would still need to increase the number of houses dramatically because if you look at national demographics our demographics are changing, yes.

    Children typically live with their parents. Parents typically live with their children. (Great-) Grandparents typically don't live with either.

    Even if our population numbers are stable, our demographics are not. People are living longer, we have more alive grandparents and great grandparents than ever before who are living in a house without any young people with them.

    We need massive construction because of demographics alone.
    Sounds like what we need is sheltered accommodation and care homes.
    Should people who are fit, healthy and able to live in their own home but are simply old be forced into sheltered accommodation in your eyes?
    I suspect a lot of people would be better off long term if they moved to sheltered accommodation sooner rather than later..

    A lot of people leave things 1 or 2 years too late…
    Yes - I think it can be based on a vanity, and an unwillingness to look in the mirror. And there is a far greater range of types of sheltered, or semi-sheltered accommodation available over the last 25 years. It's easily to get shafted when it is sold on if purchased, however.

    We had a different version of that issue.

    Dad declared he was going to die in the (quite isolated) house he and mum had renovated and been in for 35 years. And he did.

    Which then took us 18 months to clear - it was big enough he never had to throw anything away. And a further 18 months to sell (2012-3).

    So mum moved with me as 'carer' into a place within walking distance of everything needed, which served her well and I will be keeping it as I have long term diabetic complications to consider, which could potentially include impaired vision / mobility.

    What I need is a 2nd home on the coast :-).
    I can sympathise. My family had been in one home for a century, and my father was just like yours. Just the gardening and DIY chemicals took two large estate car trips to the council depot, and that was before I realised where to find the cleaning chemicals, including some 0.880 ammonia with the rubber cap disintegrating (that went into a bucket of water with old malt vinegar to titration, then down the drain with lots of water). The Men's Shed came for several trips with cars and trailers to take their pick of timber and tools and anything else. The local folk who grwo pot plants for charity came and collected hundreds of unused plant pots. And so on and so forth.

    Very fortunately everything in the house - plumbing, roof, carpets, kitchen ... outlasted him by about a year, too.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895

    I really think we should start to consider that the polls will not narrow.

    Sunak should have called the election as soon as he took over. In hindsight Johnson should have gone in summer 2021...

    (Actually less hindsight for one @CorrectHorseBattery who called the peak of Johnsonism)

    Narrow? Farage ensures Tory ELE.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,806

    kle4 said:

    YouGov is forecasting:
    -
    @jeremycorbyn
    to get 8% in Islington N.
    -
    @georgegalloway
    to get 3% in Rochdale.

    That would be very disappointing for them both, but epically so for Galloway. Corbyn is looking to draw on a personal vote, but Galloway seemed to believe (or to appear to believe) that his by-election win presaged some epic realignment.
    There's zero chance Galloway loses his deposit. He has a reasonable chance of holding the seat
    I think he’ll lose, but not badly.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,855

    kle4 said:

    YouGov is forecasting:
    -
    @jeremycorbyn
    to get 8% in Islington N.
    -
    @georgegalloway
    to get 3% in Rochdale.

    That would be very disappointing for them both, but epically so for Galloway. Corbyn is looking to draw on a personal vote, but Galloway seemed to believe (or to appear to believe) that his by-election win presaged some epic realignment.
    There's zero chance Galloway loses his deposit. He has a reasonable chance of holding the seat
    He got 12k in a protest vote at a low turnout by election. Labour have picked someone who isn't a tin foil hat lunatic from Blackburn, so decent chance of retaking the seat.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,976
    edited June 3
    It all makes sense now, he worked for Peston....

    https://www.tatler.com/article/who-is-cass-horowitz-rishi-sunak-special-advisor-social-media-guru
    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/02/glossy-pr-rishi-sunak-cass-horowitz

    On a serious note, these guys are from very privileged world. You can see why Cameron hired Coulson, an Essex lad from a normal background to tell him what to order at a Nandos.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214
    kle4 said:

    YouGov is forecasting:
    -
    @jeremycorbyn
    to get 8% in Islington N.
    -
    @georgegalloway
    to get 3% in Rochdale.

    That would be very disappointing for them both, but epically so for Galloway. Corbyn is looking to draw on a personal vote, but Galloway seemed to believe (or to appear to believe) that his by-election win presaged some epic realignment.
    3% would be spectacular, and amusing.

    Another way to look at it is that Gorgeous got just over twelve thousand votes in the by election. Unlike normal party candidates, it's not easy seeing him get more than that in a general election. And that's not enough to win.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,806
    DM_Andy said:

    If you were Farage would you want to win in Clacton?

    South Thanet 2015 was a perfect result for him, close loss, he could argue that he would have won if the Tory machine hadn't cheated. But if he gets elected, then he'll be stuck at Westminster in the most depressing of positions, an opposition backbencher, he'll have to do constituency surgeries, actually handle people's problems. That doesn't sound like Farage stuff to me.

    It never bothered him not doing his job when he was in Brussels.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,806

    Seems Penny Mordaunt is deputising for Sunak and Angela Rayner for Starmer, no doubt with Farage for Reform, in the 7 leader debate

    I will be busy washing my hair that evening....
    With RAYNER and PENNY on, many PBers will be glued to the telly.
    Hair will certainly be one of the evening’s foci.
  • MuesliMuesli Posts: 202

    Farage uses an Eminem track for his launch:

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1797707375501283409

    Love The Way You Lie is the title to an Eminem track that best sums up Farage’s appeal to his knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing, window-licking acolytes.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    So a referendum on the ECHR and then the death penalty next.

    Interestingly, Nigel Farage has always been personally against the death penalty. (Probably doesn't reflect the views of most of his party members).
    Do we have the cross tabs on support for death penalty vs party?

    Personally, I could never support it because the justice system is not infallible.
    Here you are.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/should-the-death-penalty-be-reintroduced-for-cases-of-multiple-murder?crossBreak=conservative
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited June 3
    DM_Andy said:

    If you were Farage would you want to win in Clacton?

    South Thanet 2015 was a perfect result for him, close loss, he could argue that he would have won if the Tory machine hadn't cheated. But if he gets elected, then he'll be stuck at Westminster in the most depressing of positions, an opposition backbencher, he'll have to do constituency surgeries, actually handle people's problems. That doesn't sound like Farage stuff to me.

    Depends how big the win is. If he manages to manufacture a 3-4 swing from the Tories to RFM then he's got 5 years of fun trying to replace the Tories. After Sunak stands down there's a strong chance he'll be by far the most prominent right wing politicians in the UK above even the Tory leader. I'm also not convinced Labour's support is that deep - I think it comes more from GTTO than genuine enthusiasm, in which case there could be another very swingy election in the future.


    As for constituency surgeries and the like, who's going to punish them for outsourcing it?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    I guess nobody is watching the Scottish leaders' debate.

    Swinney getting his arse handed to him
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Meanwhile, the Met Office is saying May in the UK was the warmest since its records began (in 1884); I hope you all back home appreciated it,
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407
    AlsoLei said:

    How low the Tories have sunk..... shitting themselves about a man who has failed to be elected 7 times and is not popular in polling with voters to any eye catching extent. Utter Clowns.

    Prediction: Farage is yesterday's news and won't shift the dial for Reform very much, even if he does stand and win in Clacton.
    I suspect the biggest effect might be to make the CCHQ campaign team panic, which could result in further missteps becoming more likely.

    Tory candidates would be well advised to ignore them, keep their heads down, and concentrate on working their own patch as hard as they can.
    Good advice, which they almost certainly won't take.

    Tory Party loves to panic.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    kle4 said:

    YouGov is forecasting:
    -
    @jeremycorbyn
    to get 8% in Islington N.
    -
    @georgegalloway
    to get 3% in Rochdale.

    That would be very disappointing for them both, but epically so for Galloway. Corbyn is looking to draw on a personal vote, but Galloway seemed to believe (or to appear to believe) that his by-election win presaged some epic realignment.
    There's zero chance Galloway loses his deposit. He has a reasonable chance of holding the seat
    He got 12k in a protest vote at a low turnout by election. Labour have picked someone who isn't a tin foil hat lunatic from Blackburn, so decent chance of retaking the seat.
    Yes, a decent chance, but Galloway on 3% in the MRP is for the birds.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    I said earlier this was great news for the LibDems:

    Tories have been tacking hard right to see off RefUK. Thought they had caught the Nigel on the hop.
    Tory campaign heavily set in winning over Fukkers and wayward Tories. Forget your common or garden Tory, and especially forget your 2019 first time red wall Tory, this is hang em and flog em only.
    Various mad policy announcements have gone down like a bucke of warm sick - National Service a prime example.
    Despite this that Tory chasm remains gargantuan. It isn't working
    Now The Nigel (for it is He) comes back. On a mission to become the next leader of the Conservative Party. Sunak in a mad panic will now try and tack even harder to the right to see him off.
    The madder the Tories get, the harder they lose. They can't out fUK RefUK, and in trying they lose even more of middle England.

    And this is why the Nigel is manna from heaven for the Liberal Democrats. The Tories will unveil ever madder and more repugnant policies over the remaining month, and that just lets us pick up more seats.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214

    AlsoLei said:

    How low the Tories have sunk..... shitting themselves about a man who has failed to be elected 7 times and is not popular in polling with voters to any eye catching extent. Utter Clowns.

    Prediction: Farage is yesterday's news and won't shift the dial for Reform very much, even if he does stand and win in Clacton.
    I suspect the biggest effect might be to make the CCHQ campaign team panic, which could result in further missteps becoming more likely.

    Tory candidates would be well advised to ignore them, keep their heads down, and concentrate on working their own patch as hard as they can.
    Good advice, which they almost certainly won't take.

    Tory Party loves to panic.
    Only when they get bored with complacency.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    edited June 3

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Jesus wept! The Deltapoll has VI for 18 to 24 yo of 81% for Labour!!

    Natty Serves proving popular....
    Reform should look at some of the policies that parties on the continent are using to attract younger voters and try to outflank the Tories.
    That is one way that we are unlike our continental neighbours. Our youngsters are on the other side of this Tory culture war, particularly the women. Reform is the only party in Britain with even worse age demographics than the Tories. Its double or quits on a losing hand.

    In part I think it that migration to Britain is 75 years old, but much more recent on the continent, so our youngsters have always known it, and our communities less segregated. Partly it is much lower unemployment particularly amongst the young.

    All the polling confirms this. Britons are one of the least racist nations in Europe, and numbers citing immigration as an issue much lower than old codgers like @Leon, or indeed the PB Median.
    Older liberals equating opposition to immigration with racism is quite self-serving because their financial interests are served by importing workers, but the financial interests of the young are different.

    I don't think you're right on the history either. There was post-war immigration to France, Germany, the Netherlands, etc, as well. What was unique about the UK was the fairly long period from the late 1960s to the late 1990s when net migration was around zero and it became a fringe issue.
    As much as you try to blame the younger generations problems on migration, that is bullshit. Our population is growing at a very slow rate compared to historical norms.

    The problem is the lack of construction, not migration.

    Especially since even without migration we'd still need construction that we aren't getting anyway.

    A family of 4 moving into the country only need one house between them. 6 grandchildren growing up and becoming adults require 6 houses between them.

    In the past decade our over 50s population has grown (net) by more than net migration. That's the real main reason why we need so many more houses
    Are you arguing that with a stable national population, we would still need to increase the number of houses exponentially because if you look at an individual nuclear family, there are more grandkids than kids?
    I am arguing that with a stable national population we would still need to increase the number of houses dramatically because if you look at national demographics our demographics are changing, yes.

    Children typically live with their parents. Parents typically live with their children. (Great-) Grandparents typically don't live with either.

    Even if our population numbers are stable, our demographics are not. People are living longer, we have more alive grandparents and great grandparents than ever before who are living in a house without any young people with them.

    We need massive construction because of demographics alone.
    Sounds like what we need is sheltered accommodation and care homes.
    Should people who are fit, healthy and able to live in their own home but are simply old be forced into sheltered accommodation in your eyes?
    I suspect a lot of people would be better off long term if they moved to sheltered accommodation sooner rather than later..

    A lot of people leave things 1 or 2 years too late…
    Sheltered accomodation yes. But not care homes. As I mentioned last week I have seen the inside of a lot of (don't) care homes over the years and I would do everything in my power to prevent my loved ones going into one.
    I would just comment that we have lived in our home for 48 years and the youngest of our 3 children was just 18 months old when we moved in

    It is the family home and is far too big for us, but we will not move from it and indeed our children and grandchildren would do whatever they could to keep us in our home

    Someday, maybe soon, a life changing event will happen to my wife and I, but even then it is possible our youngest may buy his siblings out and continue it as the family home
    And this is what @williamglenn doesn't get.

    There's absolutely nothing wrong with you continuing to live in your family home, good for you. But other people also need family homes and that means we need massive construction, even without any population changes just due to demographic changes.

    Do you mind if I ask how many years ago it was when your last child moved out of the home? Unlike in the past its not unusual now for people to live in what was their family home for decades beyond their children no longer living there and we need construction for the children to have somewhere to live.
    He bought his own home in 2001 so it is 23 years since any of our children lived with us
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    YouGov is forecasting:
    -
    @jeremycorbyn
    to get 8% in Islington N.
    -
    @georgegalloway
    to get 3% in Rochdale.

    Are you voting multiple times then?
    LOL!!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407

    YouGov is forecasting:
    -
    @jeremycorbyn
    to get 8% in Islington N.
    -
    @georgegalloway
    to get 3% in Rochdale.

    I bet on Labour to (roundly) beat Corbyn.
This discussion has been closed.