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One week on and betting markets remain utterly convinced about Starmer winning a majority

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Comments

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557

    Has this slide deck (published yesterday) by More in Common been discussed?

    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/media/3rbhqx0m/weekly-webinar-1.pdf

    One interesting slide is a focus on Conservative 2019 female don't knows. Conservative to undecided voters are overwhelmingly female - Whitby Woman.
    72 per cent of those who voted Conservative in 2019 and now don’t know how they will vote are female. This group skews much older than the rest of the population and are likely to own their home. They are also much more small-c conservative than the rest of the country - coming largely from our Backbone Conservative and Loyal National segments - which supports the idea a large number are in fact disgruntled Conservatives.



    Not the usual marginal picture, so may not have much impact?

    Worth looking at constituencies in those buckets.

    There may be some value in backing the Tories in those seats.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    The 1.pm News was wall to wall Starmer's misstep/duplicity/arrogance over Abbott. Unlikely to move the dial but you'd have to have a heart of stone not to be moved.

    She seems genuinely bewildered and upset. I don't feel Starmer is a particularly straight dealer.

    With Blair in '97 you felt instinctively he'd do the right thing. With Starmer I have no such feeling.

    To be honest, that does not say much for your instincts.
    Is this your first time meeting Roger?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,607
    Andy_JS said:

    We have a developing situation in Brighton Kemptown.

    https://x.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1795862063480234472

    "@patrickkmaguire
    EXC: Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle has told local activists he has been suspended by the party"

    Has any reason been given?
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    Are there any polls expected this evening?

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    Friday 5 July. Annual leave booked.

    If you've got a drinking game planned, recommend you confine it to SNP losses or Lib Dem gains.

    We would miss you if you went for Tory and Labour respectively and died of alcohol poisoning.
    I suspect I'll be throwing up and logging off pb.com after the Exit Poll, it won't be my night.

    Then again, I have bets on so might just have to take the punches.

    Be gentle.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,754

    dixiedean said:

    Isn't Angela Rayner a stepmom?

    Just saying...

    She's a granny.
    GILF too then.
    Jeeez
  • eekeek Posts: 28,433

    eek said:

    Re the Labour clearout, there is also an attempt ongoing to deselect Aspana Begum

    Not surprising given she doesn't seem to have being doing her job (couldn't remember which MP had which issues)..
    Edit - replied before you edited
    My fault I replied without double checking and then discovered which MP Aspana was (the one who hasn't done anything and when quizzed went ill).

    Now it may be that she was/is ill but it does seem to be a long standing issue that the local party wants resolved before the election...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    Omnium said:

    Following on from my comment below (I know you'll mostly be too busy posting likes to get around to this one as swiftly as usual), where are the new ideas in British politics? I don't mean who's a genius and has managed to come up with stuff that the Greeks hadn't thought of, but where is there actual bravery and thought as to possible solutions to the many big problems that are ahead?

    We the public don't respond well to new ideas, and our politicians are not brave enough to make us.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    The latest version of the Abbott and can she stand seems to be an informal recommendation of barring her is in front of a three person NEC committee for decision by next week.
    This should be taken as fact until 6.37pm when we will see what the latest is
  • eekeek Posts: 28,433

    Andy_JS said:

    We have a developing situation in Brighton Kemptown.

    https://x.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1795862063480234472

    "@patrickkmaguire
    EXC: Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle has told local activists he has been suspended by the party"

    Has any reason been given?
    A historic 8 year old complaint (which I believe is of a best not discussed here issue)...
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    eek said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Angela Rayner is brazenly guilty.
    Of being an uppity working class woman who doesn't know her proper place.

    She probably is that. More importantly she is a fecking hypocrite who cashed in on not one but two council house sales.

    dixiedean said:

    Angela Rayner is brazenly guilty.
    Of being an uppity working class woman who doesn't know her proper place.

    She probably is that. More importantly she is a fecking hypocrite who cashed in on not one but two council house sales.
    Where's the hypocrisy?
    That she bought a Council house and hasn't become a Tory?
    The absolute cheek of it!
    Housing Act 1985

    121c This section sets out that all purchases of a council house must vote Conservative in perpetuity, especially if they are working class and/or female.
    I think you got the wrong section. There is an extension to it that allows for Labour politicians to exploit the sale of two council houses, and unlike normal people they are exempt from the proper scrutiny that ought to be applied by HMRC. It is called Trump's Law and it allows special dispensations for those in positions (or about to be in) of power

    The last Labour deputy PM had "Two Jags" as an epithet, which had a slightly better ring than "Two Council Houses" and was slightly less hypocritical.
    Got to say you are really (laughingly) struggling to come up with a decent anti-labour attack line.
    I don't need an anti-Labour "attack line", as they provide them for themselves in the same way Jas politicians on all sides do. The problem is many people are just too politically tribalist to see it. "My party right or wrong" is clearly your mantra.
    Why is it some otherwise intelligent people find it necessary to look the other way when someone from the party they support is on obvious dodgy ground? Oh, she is "working class" (people still believe in this archaic shit), so therefore she is something close to saintliness. Be more open minded. Maybe she made a mistake. Maybe she really is very stupid. Labour is going to make her deputy PM because she is "working class". There are going to be lots of lols!.
    She will be deputy PM because she won the deputy leader election campaign - no more to it than that...

    But I find you attempts to attack her desperate - firstly who on this site cares what you think

    and secondly if you have dealt with broken families you will discover whole sets of very different situations that from the outside after don't make much sense but people make work..
    I award you the Political Tribalist Medal 2nd class 2024 for services to the politically hypocritical.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,801
    kle4 said:

    Omnium said:

    Following on from my comment below (I know you'll mostly be too busy posting likes to get around to this one as swiftly as usual), where are the new ideas in British politics? I don't mean who's a genius and has managed to come up with stuff that the Greeks hadn't thought of, but where is there actual bravery and thought as to possible solutions to the many big problems that are ahead?

    We the public don't respond well to new ideas, and our politicians are not brave enough to make us.
    Wasn't that the Thatcher trick though? New ideas?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225

    Re the Labour clearout, there is also an attempt ongoing to deselect Aspana Begum

    Andy_JS said:

    We have a developing situation in Brighton Kemptown.

    https://x.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1795862063480234472

    "@patrickkmaguire
    EXC: Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle has told local activists he has been suspended by the party"

    As far as I recall Russell-Moyle is an unpleasant sort, but I think Begum is just a garden variety hard lefty?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    Omnium said:

    kle4 said:

    Omnium said:

    Following on from my comment below (I know you'll mostly be too busy posting likes to get around to this one as swiftly as usual), where are the new ideas in British politics? I don't mean who's a genius and has managed to come up with stuff that the Greeks hadn't thought of, but where is there actual bravery and thought as to possible solutions to the many big problems that are ahead?

    We the public don't respond well to new ideas, and our politicians are not brave enough to make us.
    Wasn't that the Thatcher trick though? New ideas?
    Make the new ideas look like old ideas as you're probably fine.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,294
    Josiah Mortimer
    @josiahmortimer
    Liz Truss tells the right-wing Lotus Eaters 'Tomlinson Talks' show just now: "We need to repeal the Human Rights Act, abolish the Supreme Court, repeal the Equality Act...You need to abolish the OBR"

    Chaminda Jayanetti
    @cjayanetti
    must admit, I knew Truss was a fucking idiot who'd be a shit prime minister, but I didn't quite expect the Katie Hopkins arc
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,475
    eek said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Angela Rayner is brazenly guilty.
    Of being an uppity working class woman who doesn't know her proper place.

    She probably is that. More importantly she is a fecking hypocrite who cashed in on not one but two council house sales.

    dixiedean said:

    Angela Rayner is brazenly guilty.
    Of being an uppity working class woman who doesn't know her proper place.

    She probably is that. More importantly she is a fecking hypocrite who cashed in on not one but two council house sales.
    Where's the hypocrisy?
    That she bought a Council house and hasn't become a Tory?
    The absolute cheek of it!
    Housing Act 1985

    121c This section sets out that all purchases of a council house must vote Conservative in perpetuity, especially if they are working class and/or female.
    I think you got the wrong section. There is an extension to it that allows for Labour politicians to exploit the sale of two council houses, and unlike normal people they are exempt from the proper scrutiny that ought to be applied by HMRC. It is called Trump's Law and it allows special dispensations for those in positions (or about to be in) of power

    The last Labour deputy PM had "Two Jags" as an epithet, which had a slightly better ring than "Two Council Houses" and was slightly less hypocritical.
    Got to say you are really (laughingly) struggling to come up with a decent anti-labour attack line.
    I don't need an anti-Labour "attack line", as they provide them for themselves in the same way Jas politicians on all sides do. The problem is many people are just too politically tribalist to see it. "My party right or wrong" is clearly your mantra.
    Why is it some otherwise intelligent people find it necessary to look the other way when someone from the party they support is on obvious dodgy ground? Oh, she is "working class" (people still believe in this archaic shit), so therefore she is something close to saintliness. Be more open minded. Maybe she made a mistake. Maybe she really is very stupid. Labour is going to make her deputy PM because she is "working class". There are going to be lots of lols!.
    She will be deputy PM because she won the deputy leader election campaign - no more to it than that...

    But I find you attempts to attack her desperate - firstly who on this site cares what you think

    and secondly if you have dealt with broken families you will discover whole sets of very different situations that from the outside after don't make much sense but people make work..
    BEing deputy leader does not automatically mean being deputy PM. Harriet Harman was Deputy Leader while Peter Mandelson was deputy PM.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,433
    edited May 29

    eek said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Angela Rayner is brazenly guilty.
    Of being an uppity working class woman who doesn't know her proper place.

    She probably is that. More importantly she is a fecking hypocrite who cashed in on not one but two council house sales.

    dixiedean said:

    Angela Rayner is brazenly guilty.
    Of being an uppity working class woman who doesn't know her proper place.

    She probably is that. More importantly she is a fecking hypocrite who cashed in on not one but two council house sales.
    Where's the hypocrisy?
    That she bought a Council house and hasn't become a Tory?
    The absolute cheek of it!
    Housing Act 1985

    121c This section sets out that all purchases of a council house must vote Conservative in perpetuity, especially if they are working class and/or female.
    I think you got the wrong section. There is an extension to it that allows for Labour politicians to exploit the sale of two council houses, and unlike normal people they are exempt from the proper scrutiny that ought to be applied by HMRC. It is called Trump's Law and it allows special dispensations for those in positions (or about to be in) of power

    The last Labour deputy PM had "Two Jags" as an epithet, which had a slightly better ring than "Two Council Houses" and was slightly less hypocritical.
    Got to say you are really (laughingly) struggling to come up with a decent anti-labour attack line.
    I don't need an anti-Labour "attack line", as they provide them for themselves in the same way Jas politicians on all sides do. The problem is many people are just too politically tribalist to see it. "My party right or wrong" is clearly your mantra.
    Why is it some otherwise intelligent people find it necessary to look the other way when someone from the party they support is on obvious dodgy ground? Oh, she is "working class" (people still believe in this archaic shit), so therefore she is something close to saintliness. Be more open minded. Maybe she made a mistake. Maybe she really is very stupid. Labour is going to make her deputy PM because she is "working class". There are going to be lots of lols!.
    She will be deputy PM because she won the deputy leader election campaign - no more to it than that...

    But I find you attempts to attack her desperate - firstly who on this site cares what you think

    and secondly if you have dealt with broken families you will discover whole sets of very different situations that from the outside after don't make much sense but people make work..
    I award you the Political Tribalist Medal 2nd class 2024 for services to the politically hypocritical.
    Which part of she was elected Deputy PM 4 years ago have you failed to grasp - she's not saintly but it's clear that the worst she did was not pay a few hundred quid in Capital Gains Tax that doesn't seem to have been required in the first place.

    It's the clutchest of clutching at straws for an attack point...

    I really would expect someone on here to have better arguments and better source material...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    We have a developing situation in Brighton Kemptown.

    https://x.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1795862063480234472

    "@patrickkmaguire
    EXC: Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle has told local activists he has been suspended by the party"

    Has any reason been given?
    A historic 8 year old complaint (which I believe is of a best not discussed here issue)...
    And unfortunately for him he has no time to defend it. Very unlucky, perhaps
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,754

    Andy_JS said:

    We have a developing situation in Brighton Kemptown.

    https://x.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1795862063480234472

    "@patrickkmaguire
    EXC: Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle has told local activists he has been suspended by the party"

    Has any reason been given?
    You would need a heart of stone not to.laugh......
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,176

    ydoethur said:

    Re the Labour clearout, there is also an attempt ongoing to deselect Aspana Begum

    Sultana? Macdonell?
    The cull is underway. Night of the long toolmakers son
    Is Starmer attending the christening of his sister's son? Asking for a film reference friend?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    kle4 said:

    Re the Labour clearout, there is also an attempt ongoing to deselect Aspana Begum

    Andy_JS said:

    We have a developing situation in Brighton Kemptown.

    https://x.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1795862063480234472

    "@patrickkmaguire
    EXC: Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle has told local activists he has been suspended by the party"

    As far as I recall Russell-Moyle is an unpleasant sort, but I think Begum is just a garden variety hard lefty?
    Crikey, if Shamina Begum is standing for them even I might agree with the deselection.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Angela Rayner is brazenly guilty.
    Of being an uppity working class woman who doesn't know her proper place.

    She probably is that. More importantly she is a fecking hypocrite who cashed in on not one but two council house sales.

    dixiedean said:

    Angela Rayner is brazenly guilty.
    Of being an uppity working class woman who doesn't know her proper place.

    She probably is that. More importantly she is a fecking hypocrite who cashed in on not one but two council house sales.
    Where's the hypocrisy?
    That she bought a Council house and hasn't become a Tory?
    The absolute cheek of it!
    Housing Act 1985

    121c This section sets out that all purchases of a council house must vote Conservative in perpetuity, especially if they are working class and/or female.
    I think you got the wrong section. There is an extension to it that allows for Labour politicians to exploit the sale of two council houses, and unlike normal people they are exempt from the proper scrutiny that ought to be applied by HMRC. It is called Trump's Law and it allows special dispensations for those in positions (or about to be in) of power

    The last Labour deputy PM had "Two Jags" as an epithet, which had a slightly better ring than "Two Council Houses" and was slightly less hypocritical.
    Got to say you are really (laughingly) struggling to come up with a decent anti-labour attack line.
    I don't need an anti-Labour "attack line", as they provide them for themselves in the same way Jas politicians on all sides do. The problem is many people are just too politically tribalist to see it. "My party right or wrong" is clearly your mantra.
    Why is it some otherwise intelligent people find it necessary to look the other way when someone from the party they support is on obvious dodgy ground? Oh, she is "working class" (people still believe in this archaic shit), so therefore she is something close to saintliness. Be more open minded. Maybe she made a mistake. Maybe she really is very stupid. Labour is going to make her deputy PM because she is "working class". There are going to be lots of lols!.
    Everyone on here is tribalist. Neutrals don't spend their time on a political website. At the moment it feels Labour but that's because the the Tory posters hibernate when things look bleak.

    When I first posted here it was at least 75% Tory. The only thing that kept it civilized was Mike who was solidly Guardianista /Lib Dem
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,817

    Has this slide deck (published yesterday) by More in Common been discussed?

    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/media/3rbhqx0m/weekly-webinar-1.pdf

    One interesting slide is a focus on Conservative 2019 female don't knows. Conservative to undecided voters are overwhelmingly female - Whitby Woman.
    72 per cent of those who voted Conservative in 2019 and now don’t know how they will vote are female. This group skews much older than the rest of the population and are likely to own their home. They are also much more small-c conservative than the rest of the country - coming largely from our Backbone Conservative and Loyal National segments - which supports the idea a large number are in fact disgruntled Conservatives.



    Not the usual marginal picture, so may not have much impact?

    Worth looking at constituencies in those buckets.

    There may be some value in backing the Tories in those seats.
    Just eyeballing the map it looks like areas where the Tories' post-2016 coalition is heavily concentrated, ie the new Tory heartlands.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    kle4 said:

    Re the Labour clearout, there is also an attempt ongoing to deselect Aspana Begum

    Andy_JS said:

    We have a developing situation in Brighton Kemptown.

    https://x.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1795862063480234472

    "@patrickkmaguire
    EXC: Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle has told local activists he has been suspended by the party"

    As far as I recall Russell-Moyle is an unpleasant sort, but I think Begum is just a garden variety hard lefty?
    They are both very left
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    The latest version of the Abbott and can she stand seems to be an informal recommendation of barring her is in front of a three person NEC committee for decision by next week.
    This should be taken as fact until 6.37pm when we will see what the latest is

    It does seem to smack somewhat of Johnson clearing out people that he didn't like. It isn't really a good look for Starmer.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited May 29

    I'm in Lloyd Russell-Moyle's constituency - his suspension won't go down well. I'm not personally a fan, but his profile in his constituency is very impressive; he's always around, highly visible, works his socks off, seems to know everybody and does an awful lot of 'good things' in the community.

    I’m down the road in Peter Kyle’s constituency. It was noticeable that LRM wasn’t at the SKS meet n’greet at Preston Park.

    LRM personal statement:

    https://x.com/lloyd_rm/status/1795863977961926933

    There isn't enough time to defend myself as these processes within the party take too long, so the party have told me that I will not be eligible to be
    a candidate at the next election.


    I don’t agree with his view on women’s rights - but this is very shoddy.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,729

    Re the Labour clearout, there is also an attempt ongoing to deselect Aspana Begum

    That's slightly different no? It's been going on a while and is more a very ugly intra-community dispute involving her ex than any attempt from on high to ditch left-wingers.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Josiah Mortimer
    @josiahmortimer
    Liz Truss tells the right-wing Lotus Eaters 'Tomlinson Talks' show just now: "We need to repeal the Human Rights Act, abolish the Supreme Court, repeal the Equality Act...You need to abolish the OBR"

    Chaminda Jayanetti
    @cjayanetti
    must admit, I knew Truss was a fucking idiot who'd be a shit prime minister, but I didn't quite expect the Katie Hopkins arc

    Yes but if we abolish the Equality Act there will be a loads of newly permissible reasons not to offer services or employment to Liz Truss. So there’s that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225

    Josiah Mortimer
    @josiahmortimer
    Liz Truss tells the right-wing Lotus Eaters 'Tomlinson Talks' show just now: "We need to repeal the Human Rights Act, abolish the Supreme Court, repeal the Equality Act...You need to abolish the OBR"

    Chaminda Jayanetti
    @cjayanetti
    must admit, I knew Truss was a fucking idiot who'd be a shit prime minister, but I didn't quite expect the Katie Hopkins arc

    She kept pretty quiet after her ousing, and I kind of admire that such an epic humiliation did not destroy her. Given things have gone poorly I'd assume she would have focused on trying to say her economic plans were right all along, but she seems to be more interested in culture war stuff instead.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,433

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    Friday 5 July. Annual leave booked.

    If you've got a drinking game planned, recommend you confine it to SNP losses or Lib Dem gains.

    We would miss you if you went for Tory and Labour respectively and died of alcohol poisoning.
    I suspect I'll be throwing up and logging off pb.com after the Exit Poll, it won't be my night.

    Then again, I have bets on so might just have to take the punches.

    Be gentle.
    I hope the bets are of the well at least I won a few quid commiseration type - however I seem to remember they may not be so ouch and sorry.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,433
    kle4 said:

    Re the Labour clearout, there is also an attempt ongoing to deselect Aspana Begum

    Andy_JS said:

    We have a developing situation in Brighton Kemptown.

    https://x.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1795862063480234472

    "@patrickkmaguire
    EXC: Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle has told local activists he has been suspended by the party"

    As far as I recall Russell-Moyle is an unpleasant sort, but I think Begum is just a garden variety hard lefty?
    A very lazy garden variety hard lefty - not the will turn up to all community event type...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    edited May 29

    I'm in Lloyd Russell-Moyle's constituency - his suspension won't go down well. I'm not personally a fan, but his profile in his constituency is very impressive; he's always around, highly visible, works his socks off, seems to know everybody and does an awful lot of 'good things' in the community.

    I’m down the road in Peter Kyle’s constituency. It was noticeable that LRM wasn’t at the SKS meet n’greet at Preston Park.

    LRM personal statement:

    https://x.com/lloyd_rm/status/1795863977961926933

    There isn't enough time to defend myself as these processes within the party take too long, so the party have told me that I will not be eligible to be a
    candidate at the next election.

    The latest version of the Abbott and can she stand seems to be an informal recommendation of barring her is in front of a three person NEC committee for decision by next week.
    This should be taken as fact until 6.37pm when we will see what the latest is

    It does seem to smack somewhat of Johnson clearing out people that he didn't like. It isn't really a good look for Starmer.
    It is curious timing to say the least - given how long parties tend to take on investigations and suspensions it could have been any time in the last 4-6 months and they could have been confident they would have been suspended come a GE in 2024.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,433
    Military Officers willing to resign for a safe Labour seat - can see why they want to do so and why Labour may want some expertise in that area available...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    MJW said:

    Re the Labour clearout, there is also an attempt ongoing to deselect Aspana Begum

    That's slightly different no? It's been going on a while and is more a very ugly intra-community dispute involving her ex than any attempt from on high to ditch left-wingers.
    On reviewing, I agree.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    We have a developing situation in Brighton Kemptown.

    https://x.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1795862063480234472

    "@patrickkmaguire
    EXC: Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle has told local activists he has been suspended by the party"

    Has any reason been given?
    A historic 8 year old complaint (which I believe is of a best not discussed here issue)...
    And unfortunately for him he has no time to defend it. Very unlucky, perhaps
    One wonders if someone has been sitting on this to spring it at just such a moment. LRM unlucky but shit happens. Politics is a rough trade.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,545

    I think the Abbott debacle (along with other mis-steps) shows Starmer’s political inexperience.

    We’re about to replace one politically inexperienced technocrat with another. Both men are smart, both sincere in wanting to better the country’s lot, via different routes, both have been in front line politics for less than a decade.

    That’s why I fear he relies too heavily on SPADs, who are “clever”.

    I suspect we’re in for a bumpy ride.

    Sunak has allowed/will allow the Bank of England to burn £150bn of public money on their crazy bond scheme this year. That's money that could have been spent on health, education, paying off the national debt, equipping the armed services, or finishing HS2. That vast sinkhole in the public finances is a bigger political issue than any of the utter rubbish that the silly pair have flung at each other about during PMQs, and they are both maintaining a polite silence about it. How can you know that, and suggest that either of these men are sincere in their desire to better the country?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Why does Angela Rayner wind people up here so much when no one gave a shit about Nadhim Zahawi? I know the posters here lean right and are largely reflexively anti-Labour but it really doesn’t speak well of PBers.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,169

    The latest version of the Abbott and can she stand seems to be an informal recommendation of barring her is in front of a three person NEC committee for decision by next week.
    This should be taken as fact until 6.37pm when we will see what the latest is

    It does seem to smack somewhat of Johnson clearing out people that he didn't like. It isn't really a good look for Starmer.
    He’s very, very lucky that Corbyn is tribally Labour and hasn’t created a party around these folk and attacked his left flank. Many in his position would have.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,433

    The latest version of the Abbott and can she stand seems to be an informal recommendation of barring her is in front of a three person NEC committee for decision by next week.
    This should be taken as fact until 6.37pm when we will see what the latest is

    It does seem to smack somewhat of Johnson clearing out people that he didn't like. It isn't really a good look for Starmer.
    By the time of the election it will be last months chip papers.

    And at most it will cost 10,000 vots in a constituency with a 33,000 majority and quite possible 0 votes.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    Roger said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Angela Rayner is brazenly guilty.
    Of being an uppity working class woman who doesn't know her proper place.

    She probably is that. More importantly she is a fecking hypocrite who cashed in on not one but two council house sales.

    dixiedean said:

    Angela Rayner is brazenly guilty.
    Of being an uppity working class woman who doesn't know her proper place.

    She probably is that. More importantly she is a fecking hypocrite who cashed in on not one but two council house sales.
    Where's the hypocrisy?
    That she bought a Council house and hasn't become a Tory?
    The absolute cheek of it!
    Housing Act 1985

    121c This section sets out that all purchases of a council house must vote Conservative in perpetuity, especially if they are working class and/or female.
    I think you got the wrong section. There is an extension to it that allows for Labour politicians to exploit the sale of two council houses, and unlike normal people they are exempt from the proper scrutiny that ought to be applied by HMRC. It is called Trump's Law and it allows special dispensations for those in positions (or about to be in) of power

    The last Labour deputy PM had "Two Jags" as an epithet, which had a slightly better ring than "Two Council Houses" and was slightly less hypocritical.
    Got to say you are really (laughingly) struggling to come up with a decent anti-labour attack line.
    I don't need an anti-Labour "attack line", as they provide them for themselves in the same way Jas politicians on all sides do. The problem is many people are just too politically tribalist to see it. "My party right or wrong" is clearly your mantra.
    Why is it some otherwise intelligent people find it necessary to look the other way when someone from the party they support is on obvious dodgy ground? Oh, she is "working class" (people still believe in this archaic shit), so therefore she is something close to saintliness. Be more open minded. Maybe she made a mistake. Maybe she really is very stupid. Labour is going to make her deputy PM because she is "working class". There are going to be lots of lols!.
    Everyone on here is tribalist. Neutrals don't spend their time on a political website. At the moment it feels Labour but that's because the the Tory posters hibernate when things look bleak.

    When I first posted here it was at least 75% Tory. The only thing that kept it civilized was Mike who was solidly Guardianista /Lib Dem
    You don't need to be tribalist if you are interested in politics. Sure, you may have a leaning one way or other, but the tribalist is a different animal. They are "my party right or wrong". It is the closed mindset that has produced so many problems. People should be able to look at politicians that might share some of their views critically. There are people here and across the Atlantic that seem to think their hatred of the other party means that their people can do what they like. It is the mentality that has led to Trump thinking he is above the law. Boris Johnson was also afflicted by this. Let us hope that Starmer does not fall into the same trap.

    What is the answer? I am not sure.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,744

    kle4 said:

    Re the Labour clearout, there is also an attempt ongoing to deselect Aspana Begum

    Andy_JS said:

    We have a developing situation in Brighton Kemptown.

    https://x.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1795862063480234472

    "@patrickkmaguire
    EXC: Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle has told local activists he has been suspended by the party"

    As far as I recall Russell-Moyle is an unpleasant sort, but I think Begum is just a garden variety hard lefty?
    They are both very left
    and now left out

  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,896
    Roger said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Angela Rayner is brazenly guilty.
    Of being an uppity working class woman who doesn't know her proper place.

    She probably is that. More importantly she is a fecking hypocrite who cashed in on not one but two council house sales.

    dixiedean said:

    Angela Rayner is brazenly guilty.
    Of being an uppity working class woman who doesn't know her proper place.

    She probably is that. More importantly she is a fecking hypocrite who cashed in on not one but two council house sales.
    Where's the hypocrisy?
    That she bought a Council house and hasn't become a Tory?
    The absolute cheek of it!
    Housing Act 1985

    121c This section sets out that all purchases of a council house must vote Conservative in perpetuity, especially if they are working class and/or female.
    I think you got the wrong section. There is an extension to it that allows for Labour politicians to exploit the sale of two council houses, and unlike normal people they are exempt from the proper scrutiny that ought to be applied by HMRC. It is called Trump's Law and it allows special dispensations for those in positions (or about to be in) of power

    The last Labour deputy PM had "Two Jags" as an epithet, which had a slightly better ring than "Two Council Houses" and was slightly less hypocritical.
    Got to say you are really (laughingly) struggling to come up with a decent anti-labour attack line.
    I don't need an anti-Labour "attack line", as they provide them for themselves in the same way Jas politicians on all sides do. The problem is many people are just too politically tribalist to see it. "My party right or wrong" is clearly your mantra.
    Why is it some otherwise intelligent people find it necessary to look the other way when someone from the party they support is on obvious dodgy ground? Oh, she is "working class" (people still believe in this archaic shit), so therefore she is something close to saintliness. Be more open minded. Maybe she made a mistake. Maybe she really is very stupid. Labour is going to make her deputy PM because she is "working class". There are going to be lots of lols!.
    Everyone on here is tribalist. Neutrals don't spend their time on a political website. At the moment it feels Labour but that's because the the Tory posters hibernate when things look bleak.

    When I first posted here it was at least 75% Tory. The only thing that kept it civilized was Mike who was solidly Guardianista /Lib Dem
    I really don't think everyone on here is tribalist. I'd say the reverse, in fact. Even among some of the active and aspiring politicians.
    Everyone has views. But relatively few support one team or another. Most, fairly objectively, favour the team who best reflect their views, but this is in no way immutable.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,478

    Abbottgate is the new Raynergate, which was the new Currygate.

    The PB Tories / PB ‘Lifelong Labour Voters’ never learn do they?

    It goes beyond that because it's not just Tories and Corbynites who are talking about it, there are plenty of soft left types who only read a headline and think "aww, she deserves to be treated with more dignity than that". The Guardian have had it as their top story all afternoon, even though there's not actually anything new to report.

    I don't think it should move the polls, but there's a reasonable chance that it might - which is why the PB Tories are so keep to amplify it!

    The interesting question is whether Labour are content to sit back and let the story play out, or whether they'll try to take some active steps to refocus attention elsewhere. In that way, it's a good test of how rigidly they'll stick to the Ming Vase strategy for the rest of the campaign.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    kle4 said:

    Josiah Mortimer
    @josiahmortimer
    Liz Truss tells the right-wing Lotus Eaters 'Tomlinson Talks' show just now: "We need to repeal the Human Rights Act, abolish the Supreme Court, repeal the Equality Act...You need to abolish the OBR"

    Chaminda Jayanetti
    @cjayanetti
    must admit, I knew Truss was a fucking idiot who'd be a shit prime minister, but I didn't quite expect the Katie Hopkins arc

    She kept pretty quiet after her ousing, and I kind of admire that such an epic humiliation did not destroy her. Given things have gone poorly I'd assume she would have focused on trying to say her economic plans were right all along, but she seems to be more interested in culture war stuff instead.
    It’s terrifying she was ever in any kind of high office, let alone the highest. Iconically mentalist.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,433
    DougSeal said:

    Why does Angela Rayner wind people up here so much when no one gave a shit about Nadhim Zahawi? I know the posters here lean right and are largely reflexively anti-Labour but it really doesn’t speak well of PBers.

    Because Angela Rayner is basically the one attack point the anti-Labour posters have had for months.

    And being both working class and female they feel superior enough to be able to attack her once they had a vague reason. It stinks of desperation...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Labour might be risking the black vote, the Muslim vote, the *insert here* vote but they'll be fine as long as they hold on to the signed up to online polling panel vote
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449

    On LBC, former Theresa May SPAD Tom Swarbrick, is very perplexed by Labour's stance on Diane Abbott. NEC's Mish Ramen calls the entitled white Starmer Labour leadership racist because of the Party's treatment of PB Tory favourite Diane Abbott.

    Sixteen unions demand PB Tory favourite Diane Abbott is reinstated.

    Could PB Tory favourite Diane Abbott can deliver a Tory victory?

    No, but so far at least Keir has fumbled this.
    Abbott should be free to stand, indeed hasn’t he implied as much?

    This is essentially trivia, save what it tells us about Keir’s judgement (so far, not great).
    If Starmer lets Mrs Entitled -Bonkers stand, he really does have poor judgement.

    It is confected nonsense by the media, but it has definitely derailed Starmer. Good on the BBC, good on Victoria Derbyshire.
    It has “derailed” Starmer.

    Whatever you say.

    FFS, give it a rest. Your desperation is embarrassing.
    Today was Labour's big NHS waiting list launch? How did that get reported. It didn't, so Starmer and Streeting were derailed by Abbott.

    You really are Anabobazina nice, but dim.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    Roger said:
    Oh God, that's so fucking Guardian.

    No wonder you like it.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    eek said:

    The latest version of the Abbott and can she stand seems to be an informal recommendation of barring her is in front of a three person NEC committee for decision by next week.
    This should be taken as fact until 6.37pm when we will see what the latest is

    It does seem to smack somewhat of Johnson clearing out people that he didn't like. It isn't really a good look for Starmer.
    By the time of the election it will be last months chip papers.

    And at most it will cost 10,000 vots in a constituency with a 33,000 majority and quite possible 0 votes.
    You aren't too concerned about whether it is the right thing to do, it's only about the votes?

    You are HYUFD and I claim my £5
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,896

    Isn't Angela Rayner a stepmom?

    Just saying...

    StepMUM. She isn't American!
  • eekeek Posts: 28,433
    edited May 29

    Labour might be risking the black vote, the Muslim vote, the *insert here* vote but they'll be fine as long as they hold on to the signed up to online polling panel vote

    Where would the black / muslim vote go and where does it exist... I suspect losing those votes will just make the Labour vote more efficient and not actually cost them any seats.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,169
    Roger said:
    Was there never an iconic image of bra burning in the mid-late sixties? It feels like there must have been.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,744
    geoffw said:

    kle4 said:

    Re the Labour clearout, there is also an attempt ongoing to deselect Aspana Begum

    Andy_JS said:

    We have a developing situation in Brighton Kemptown.

    https://x.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1795862063480234472

    "@patrickkmaguire
    EXC: Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle has told local activists he has been suspended by the party"

    As far as I recall Russell-Moyle is an unpleasant sort, but I think Begum is just a garden variety hard lefty?
    They are both very left
    and now left out

    Sentence first—verdict afterwards
    seems to be the rule

  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    biggles said:

    The latest version of the Abbott and can she stand seems to be an informal recommendation of barring her is in front of a three person NEC committee for decision by next week.
    This should be taken as fact until 6.37pm when we will see what the latest is

    It does seem to smack somewhat of Johnson clearing out people that he didn't like. It isn't really a good look for Starmer.
    He’s very, very lucky that Corbyn is tribally Labour and hasn’t created a party around these folk and attacked his left flank. Many in his position would have.
    Corbyn could have taken his period of relative authority in the party after GE17 to clear his party of 'undesirables' like Johnson and now Starmer are doing, but he was very reverent of Labour Party democracy and believed that members should make the choices not the NEC. Starmer should owe a debt of gratitude to Corbyn's willingness to not play factional games.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,754
    Angela Rayner cleared by HMRC over tax on sale of former home

    Exclusive: Document seen by the Guardian says ‘no capital gains tax is due’ from Labour deputy leader and that case is now closed


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/29/angela-rayner-labour-cleared-hmrc-tax-sale-former-home
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    eek said:

    Labour might be risking the black vote, the Muslim vote, the *insert here* vote but they'll be fine as long as they hold on to the signed up to online polling panel vote

    Where would the black / muslim vote go and where does it exist... I suspect losing those votes will just make the Labour vote more efficient and not actually cost them any seats.
    It was gentle humour about online polling panels, I don't know how the ethnic vote will stand up
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,801
    biggles said:

    The latest version of the Abbott and can she stand seems to be an informal recommendation of barring her is in front of a three person NEC committee for decision by next week.
    This should be taken as fact until 6.37pm when we will see what the latest is

    It does seem to smack somewhat of Johnson clearing out people that he didn't like. It isn't really a good look for Starmer.
    He’s very, very lucky that Corbyn is tribally Labour and hasn’t created a party around these folk and attacked his left flank. Many in his position would have.
    I'm astonished that Corbyn hasn't done so. Corbyn is tribally Corbyn. I think he's done and dusted, but having tried the electoral route to power and failed I'd not rule out him trying the insider coup.

    He'd have just been this awful lame-duck politician without a few stupid Labour politicians... And that's my point.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,258
    edited May 29
    FF43 said:

    Electoral Calculus may be way off course but I reckon there are about a dozen Conservative seats in this list that can be deemed "safe". Even some of the normally safest seats are at risk of falling to the Lib Dems, where Labour isn't a contender.

    This doesn't mean the Conservatives will only win 12 seats. There are at least 150 other seats in play with small margins either way. But it does mean a very small further shift to Labour will see the Conservatives all but wiped out. Not sure people have really taken this on board.

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html

    Electoral Calculus has the LibDems winning Sheffield Hallam. Which is slightly weird, because the old Sheffield Hallam was Labour. My assumption is that there must be some boundary changes that make it less Labour friendly. *STILL* I would be very surprised to see the LDs gain it.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,405

    I'm in Lloyd Russell-Moyle's constituency - his suspension won't go down well. I'm not personally a fan, but his profile in his constituency is very impressive; he's always around, highly visible, works his socks off, seems to know everybody and does an awful lot of 'good things' in the community.

    I’m down the road in Peter Kyle’s constituency. It was noticeable that LRM wasn’t at the SKS meet n’greet at Preston Park.

    LRM personal statement:

    https://x.com/lloyd_rm/status/1795863977961926933

    There isn't enough time to defend myself as these processes within the party take too long, so the party have told me that I will not be eligible to be
    a candidate at the next election.


    I don’t agree with his view on women’s rights - but this is very shoddy.
    Thanks, yes, I'd noticed he wasn't at the Preston Park gig and wondered why. Emails from my local LP have dried up over the last couple of days, which I was also surprised by. Now I know why.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    DougSeal said:

    Why does Angela Rayner wind people up here so much when no one gave a shit about Nadhim Zahawi? I know the posters here lean right and are largely reflexively anti-Labour but it really doesn’t speak well of PBers.

    Personally I think he is a disgrace. I thought Boris Johnson was a disgrace. I think Angela Rayner is a disgrace. Corbyn was a massive disgrace.

    I would like to see honest politicians. There are some out there in most of the parties.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,913

    Andy_JS said:

    We have a developing situation in Brighton Kemptown.

    https://x.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1795862063480234472

    "@patrickkmaguire
    EXC: Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle has told local activists he has been suspended by the party"

    Has any reason been given?
    Some allegation that is 8 years old and has conveniently just dropped into the laps of the "lets deselect the loonies" committee.

    If they are purging various other hard left members then truly Starmer is all in on changing the party.

    I utterly detested the hard left, for so many reasons. But I do not think people should be denied the opportunity to vote for them. Which beggars the question - why is the hard left so disorganised that it hadn't founded a new party?

    Galloway formed the Galloway Cult Workers Party , won a seat and has multiple candidates running. Momentum have been around far longer, as has the Peace and Justice Project, with the Owen Jones / Novara / Momentum group all homeless.

    So why didn't they act? Too late now - unless they join the Galloway Cult.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    biggles said:

    Roger said:
    Was there never an iconic image of bra burning in the mid-late sixties? It feels like there must have been.
    Secretly everyone in the Guardian who nods sanctimoniously over that is simultaneously drooling over the Daily Mail sidebar of shame. Or vice versa.

    You just know it. The moralising. The hypocrisy. The guilt. The double-standards.

    The GUARDIAN readers.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

    You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

    If it were a Starmerite you'd be right. The purge is afoot. Leftists beware!
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    rcs1000 said:

    FF43 said:

    Electoral Calculus may be way off course but I reckon there are about a dozen Conservative seats in this list that can be deemed "safe". Even some of the normally safest seats are at risk of falling to the Lib Dems, where Labour isn't a contender.

    This doesn't mean the Conservatives will only win 12 seats. There are at least 150 other seats in play with small margins either way. But it does mean a very small further shift to Labour will see the Conservatives all but wiped out. Not sure people have really taken this on board.

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html

    Electoral Calculus has the LibDems winning Sheffield Hallam. Which is slightly weird, because the old Sheffield Hallam was Labour. My assumption is that there must be some boundary changes that make it less Labour friendly. *STILL* I would be very surprised to see the LDs gain it.
    Sheffield City Council Elections 2024, out of the five wards that make up Sheffield Hallam, Lib Dems won 3, Greens 1 and Labour 1 and in the Green seat Lib Dems came 2nd.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    rcs1000 said:

    FF43 said:

    Electoral Calculus may be way off course but I reckon there are about a dozen Conservative seats in this list that can be deemed "safe". Even some of the normally safest seats are at risk of falling to the Lib Dems, where Labour isn't a contender.

    This doesn't mean the Conservatives will only win 12 seats. There are at least 150 other seats in play with small margins either way. But it does mean a very small further shift to Labour will see the Conservatives all but wiped out. Not sure people have really taken this on board.

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html

    Electoral Calculus has the LibDems winning Sheffield Hallam. Which is slightly weird, because the old Sheffield Hallam was Labour. My assumption is that there must be some boundary changes that make it less Labour friendly. *STILL* I would be very surprised to see the LDs gain it.
    If they couldn't win it after the Jared O'Mara debacle they will never win it again is my thought.

    Granted it was very close last time and the Tory vote will surely collapse again, but with the national situation in Labour's favour?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,930
    edited May 29
    Double wicket maiden for Sophie Eccleston. 100 wickets in ODIs. Fastest ever.
    Is it possible that one day a woman might be chosen for the mens side? Her? Obviously doesn't has the strength to bat competitively but she is a truly wonderful bowler. I would like to see how it went.

    Edit. Now 101.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,405

    DougSeal said:

    Why does Angela Rayner wind people up here so much when no one gave a shit about Nadhim Zahawi? I know the posters here lean right and are largely reflexively anti-Labour but it really doesn’t speak well of PBers.

    Personally I think he is a disgrace. I thought Boris Johnson was a disgrace. I think Angela Rayner is a disgrace. Corbyn was a massive disgrace.

    I would like to see honest politicians. There are some out there in most of the parties.
    You are Liz Truss. That is a disgrace.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557

    The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

    You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

    SKS wants to be a political dictator. Due process is precisely what he wants it to be.

    Since he's going to be Gruppenfuhrer over all of us shortly, let's hope he gets it right.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225

    The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

    You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

    If it were a Starmerite you'd be right. The purge is afoot. Leftists beware!
    But I keep hearing about how much of a leftist Sir Keir is!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,209
    Sandpit said:

    His main topic of ire was the US Democrats, but obviously I disagree with him about Ukraine. In the US context, it’s only been recently explained that the vast majority of “Ukraine” spending is actually supporting American jobs in the MIC.

    It’s good to listen to people with whom you agree on some things and disagree on others.
    I don’t think it’s good to listen to a far right nutjob who pals around with Tommy Robinson, who’s an anti-Semite, a racist, a homophobe, who serially harassed a woman who criticised him, and who promotes conspiracy theories.

    But you say you agree with him on some things? What things?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    Farooq said:

    DougSeal said:

    Why does Angela Rayner wind people up here so much when no one gave a shit about Nadhim Zahawi? I know the posters here lean right and are largely reflexively anti-Labour but it really doesn’t speak well of PBers.

    Self-confident working class northern female explains some of it. Don't know about the other 5%, maybe policy or something.
    Total bollocks. When are people going to move away from this antiquated "working class" bollox? It is an obsession with some, mainly on the left. Move on. I don't like her for the reasons mentioned about two council houses, plus she is very irritating. I couldn't give a shit about her "working class" credentials or what her son does.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,536

    dixiedean said:

    Isn't Angela Rayner a stepmom?

    Just saying...

    She's a granny.
    GILF too then.
    Wayne Rooney says Hi.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,176
    Roger said:
    Although I'm always pleased to see Cindy Sherman, I can't help but notice that only five of the 38 were British...and one of the Brits was Myra Hindley. Couldn't the Grauniad shoe-in the obvious omission: Margaret Thatcher?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,652

    Angela Rayner cleared by HMRC over tax on sale of former home

    Exclusive: Document seen by the Guardian says ‘no capital gains tax is due’ from Labour deputy leader and that case is now closed


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/29/angela-rayner-labour-cleared-hmrc-tax-sale-former-home

    Wasn't the theory from some quarters that if she was ok with HMRC, she must be wrong by electoral laws, and visa versa? Does all look like it will come to nothing though.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    eek said:

    DougSeal said:

    Why does Angela Rayner wind people up here so much when no one gave a shit about Nadhim Zahawi? I know the posters here lean right and are largely reflexively anti-Labour but it really doesn’t speak well of PBers.

    Because Angela Rayner is basically the one attack point the anti-Labour posters have had for months.

    And being both working class and female they feel superior enough to be able to attack her once they had a vague reason. It stinks of desperation...
    I have no issue with Angela Rayner's background, upbringing, sex or her (rather good) dancing to 90s Old Skool anthems.

    I do have an issue with her politics and her way of personalising politics.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,744

    DougSeal said:

    Why does Angela Rayner wind people up here so much when no one gave a shit about Nadhim Zahawi? I know the posters here lean right and are largely reflexively anti-Labour but it really doesn’t speak well of PBers.

    Personally I think he is a disgrace. I thought Boris Johnson was a disgrace. I think Angela Rayner is a disgrace. Corbyn was a massive disgrace.

    I would like to see honest politicians. There are some out there in most of the parties.
    The truly dishonest politicians are those who declare that honesty is the best policy

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    DougSeal said:

    Why does Angela Rayner wind people up here so much when no one gave a shit about Nadhim Zahawi? I know the posters here lean right and are largely reflexively anti-Labour but it really doesn’t speak well of PBers.

    Personally I think he is a disgrace. I thought Boris Johnson was a disgrace. I think Angela Rayner is a disgrace. Corbyn was a massive disgrace.

    I would like to see honest politicians. There are some out there in most of the parties.
    You are Liz Truss. That is a disgrace.
    I forgot about her, and no, last time I looked I wasn't her.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225

    The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

    You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

    Aren't prosecutors always dumping a lot of information on the other side at the last minute? Seems on brand.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,433
    carnforth said:

    Angela Rayner cleared by HMRC over tax on sale of former home

    Exclusive: Document seen by the Guardian says ‘no capital gains tax is due’ from Labour deputy leader and that case is now closed


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/29/angela-rayner-labour-cleared-hmrc-tax-sale-former-home

    Wasn't the theory from some quarters that if she was ok with HMRC, she must be wrong by electoral laws, and visa versa? Does all look like it will come to nothing though.
    Unless she used 2 addresses to vote twice in a general election I can't see how she would break an electoral law.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,930

    Angela Rayner cleared by HMRC over tax on sale of former home

    Exclusive: Document seen by the Guardian says ‘no capital gains tax is due’ from Labour deputy leader and that case is now closed


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/29/angela-rayner-labour-cleared-hmrc-tax-sale-former-home

    I see that the usual suspects are posting that "she has got away with it".

    Yes - she got away with not breaking the law or avoiding taxes. What a monster!
    I just never even understood what she was supposed to have done wrong. It was weird and more than a little bit desperate from the Tories.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,913

    The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

    You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

    This IS due process. Someone makes a complaint. The party suspends the member whilst it investigates the complaint.

    The only problem here is the timing, because it is impossible to investigate quickly enough for RLM to be selected as candidate...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,433

    The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

    You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

    SKS wants to be a political dictator. Due process is precisely what he wants it to be.

    Since he's going to be Gruppenfuhrer over all of us shortly, let's hope he gets it right.
    LRM is in the unfortunate position of being mid case as the election is called - it's not great but it's one of those things and as much Rishi's fault as anyone else..
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    Andy_JS said:

    We have a developing situation in Brighton Kemptown.

    https://x.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1795862063480234472

    "@patrickkmaguire
    EXC: Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle has told local activists he has been suspended by the party"

    Has any reason been given?
    Some allegation that is 8 years old and has conveniently just dropped into the laps of the "lets deselect the loonies" committee.

    If they are purging various other hard left members then truly Starmer is all in on changing the party.

    I utterly detested the hard left, for so many reasons. But I do not think people should be denied the opportunity to vote for them. Which beggars the question - why is the hard left so disorganised that it hadn't founded a new party?

    Galloway formed the Galloway Cult Workers Party , won a seat and has multiple candidates running. Momentum have been around far longer, as has the Peace and Justice Project, with the Owen Jones / Novara / Momentum group all homeless.

    So why didn't they act? Too late now - unless they join the Galloway Cult.
    I think the answer is in a scene or two from The Life of Brian.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,536

    Angela Rayner cleared by HMRC over tax on sale of former home

    Exclusive: Document seen by the Guardian says ‘no capital gains tax is due’ from Labour deputy leader and that case is now closed


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/29/angela-rayner-labour-cleared-hmrc-tax-sale-former-home

    Dan Neidle posted, at the time, if she had made an error it would be inadvertent due to the complexities of the tax system. His posts on this matter have been very informative.

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,801
    DavidL said:

    Double wicket maiden for Sophie Eccleston. 100 wickets in ODIs. Fastest ever.
    Is it possible that one day a woman might be chosen for the mens side? Her? Obviously doesn't has the strength to bat competitively but she is a truly wonderful bowler. I would like to see how it went.

    Edit. Now 101.

    As much of the art of batting is just deflecting the momentum that the ball already has I'd guess that the most likely female member of the full England team will be a batter.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,674
    O/T

    "Person is killed after being sucked into KLM passenger plane engine at Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport: Investigators say 'too early to rule if it was suicide' as witnesses describe 'hellish noise' after horrifying incident"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13472661/Person-killed-falling-KLM-passenger-plane-engine-Schiphol-Airport.html
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,652
    eek said:

    carnforth said:

    Angela Rayner cleared by HMRC over tax on sale of former home

    Exclusive: Document seen by the Guardian says ‘no capital gains tax is due’ from Labour deputy leader and that case is now closed


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/29/angela-rayner-labour-cleared-hmrc-tax-sale-former-home

    Wasn't the theory from some quarters that if she was ok with HMRC, she must be wrong by electoral laws, and visa versa? Does all look like it will come to nothing though.
    Unless she used 2 addresses to vote twice in a general election I can't see how she would break an electoral law.
    Candidature rathing than voting IIRC.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

    You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

    This IS due process. Someone makes a complaint. The party suspends the member whilst it investigates the complaint.

    The only problem here is the timing, because it is impossible to investigate quickly enough for RLM to be selected as candidate...
    Let's hope nobody maliciously makes a complaint about Starmer then
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    Angela Rayner cleared by HMRC over tax on sale of former home

    Exclusive: Document seen by the Guardian says ‘no capital gains tax is due’ from Labour deputy leader and that case is now closed


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/29/angela-rayner-labour-cleared-hmrc-tax-sale-former-home

    I see that the usual suspects are posting that "she has got away with it".

    Yes - she got away with not breaking the law or avoiding taxes. What a monster!
    yea Donald Trump says he is innocent too!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    Roger said:
    Oh God, that's so fucking Guardian.

    No wonder you like it.
    LOL! I don't believe you are this philistine Hooray Henry you pretend to be.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,078

    New @Moreincommon_ voting intention, 27-29 May
    Margin of error changes see Labour's lead at 19
    🔵Conservative 26 (-1)
    🔴Labour 45 (+1)
    🟡Liberal Democrat 9 (-)
    🟢Green 5 (-1)
    🟣Reform UK 11 (+1)
    Changes with 22-23 May n = 2008

    The JLP poll looks increasingly like an outlier. MiC is the fourth in a row that has edged away from the Tories, whilst JLP has gone the other way.
    Movement within the MoE is not movement (either way), its noise
    However virtually all movement does occur within MoE. Something like 99% of all polls move within MoE, even when changes are happening.

    A 10 point swing between the parties can still be within MoE.

    Need to look at the trend rather than just individual polls to separate out the noise.
    And there is, as yet, no trend
    Stability is in itself a trend.
    Exactly.

    The Tories need a trend to occur. There has been no trend.

    It's probably reasonable to expect more volatility in voting intentions during an election campaign, which is why 'no trend' over the first week is notable.

    Volatility in voting intentions may increase further as the election draws nearer and ordinary people start to pay it more attention. But it won't happen overnight. So the Tories' chance of recovering (say to hung parliament territory) is a product of time left to the election and how much of the gap they've narrowed this far.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    biggles said:

    Roger said:
    Was there never an iconic image of bra burning in the mid-late sixties? It feels like there must have been.
    Lots.....Just none iconic
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    eek said:

    carnforth said:

    Angela Rayner cleared by HMRC over tax on sale of former home

    Exclusive: Document seen by the Guardian says ‘no capital gains tax is due’ from Labour deputy leader and that case is now closed


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/29/angela-rayner-labour-cleared-hmrc-tax-sale-former-home

    Wasn't the theory from some quarters that if she was ok with HMRC, she must be wrong by electoral laws, and visa versa? Does all look like it will come to nothing though.
    Unless she used 2 addresses to vote twice in a general election I can't see how she would break an electoral law.
    Putting down on the nomination form an address you don't live in would be a breach as it could appear that you are living locally when you're not. Paul Nuttall was challenged about that at the 2017 Stoke on Trent Central by-election but nothing was ever done and I can't recall anyone being prosecuted for it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,536

    eek said:

    DougSeal said:

    Why does Angela Rayner wind people up here so much when no one gave a shit about Nadhim Zahawi? I know the posters here lean right and are largely reflexively anti-Labour but it really doesn’t speak well of PBers.

    Because Angela Rayner is basically the one attack point the anti-Labour posters have had for months.

    And being both working class and female they feel superior enough to be able to attack her once they had a vague reason. It stinks of desperation...
    I have no issue with Angela Rayner's background, upbringing, sex or her (rather good) dancing to 90s Old Skool anthems.

    I do have an issue with her politics and her way of personalising politics.
    Angela Rayner is the right type of working class person for the middle classes. It’s the Essex white van man or northern brexiteer types they have disdain for but they can use the likes of Rayner to say, I’m not anti working class I like Angela Rayner.

    Plenty of us are working class. Some, like Rayner, use it as a badge of honour and a political tool and the posh boys lap it up.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225

    Angela Rayner cleared by HMRC over tax on sale of former home

    Exclusive: Document seen by the Guardian says ‘no capital gains tax is due’ from Labour deputy leader and that case is now closed


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/29/angela-rayner-labour-cleared-hmrc-tax-sale-former-home

    I see that the usual suspects are posting that "she has got away with it".

    Yes - she got away with not breaking the law or avoiding taxes. What a monster!
    yea Donald Trump says he is innocent too!
    That's a stretch. Not guilty by reason of insanity on the other hand could be plausible.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,209
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
This discussion has been closed.