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One week on and betting markets remain utterly convinced about Starmer winning a majority

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  • Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,478
    kle4 said:

    Josiah Mortimer
    @josiahmortimer
    Liz Truss tells the right-wing Lotus Eaters 'Tomlinson Talks' show just now: "We need to repeal the Human Rights Act, abolish the Supreme Court, repeal the Equality Act...You need to abolish the OBR"

    Chaminda Jayanetti
    @cjayanetti
    must admit, I knew Truss was a fucking idiot who'd be a shit prime minister, but I didn't quite expect the Katie Hopkins arc

    She kept pretty quiet after her ousing, and I kind of admire that such an epic humiliation did not destroy her. Given things have gone poorly I'd assume she would have focused on trying to say her economic plans were right all along, but she seems to be more interested in culture war stuff instead.
    There's more money in the culture war stuff, so that probably played a part in shaping her post-PM path. Her views on economic radicalism are interesting, but it would only be worth her while concentrating on them if she hoped to find a way back from the wilderness.

    By chasing the culture war cash, she's telling us that she doesn't think she can do that.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    Because he is a far-right conspiracy theorist?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    Because he is a far-right conspiracy theorist?
    Can't say I've ever gotten that impression.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,171

    Angela Rayner cleared by HMRC over tax on sale of former home

    Exclusive: Document seen by the Guardian says ‘no capital gains tax is due’ from Labour deputy leader and that case is now closed


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/29/angela-rayner-labour-cleared-hmrc-tax-sale-former-home

    I see that the usual suspects are posting that "she has got away with it".

    Yes - she got away with not breaking the law or avoiding taxes. What a monster!
    yea Donald Trump says he is innocent too!
    Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

    However a key difference between the cases is that we can specify what laws Donald Trump has broken, and on which dates too, with evidence that can be taken to court.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,930
    Omnium said:

    DavidL said:

    Double wicket maiden for Sophie Eccleston. 100 wickets in ODIs. Fastest ever.
    Is it possible that one day a woman might be chosen for the mens side? Her? Obviously doesn't has the strength to bat competitively but she is a truly wonderful bowler. I would like to see how it went.

    Edit. Now 101.

    As much of the art of batting is just deflecting the momentum that the ball already has I'd guess that the most likely female member of the full England team will be a batter.
    I think there is so much power in batting these days. Sixes over 100m are becoming increasingly common. Not sure that any woman will have that level of power. Also. no female batsman is used to dealing with a 90mph bowler coming at their throat. I think a non fast bowler is a much better bet.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,474
    edited May 29

    The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

    You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

    This IS due process. Someone makes a complaint. The party suspends the member whilst it investigates the complaint.

    The only problem here is the timing, because it is impossible to investigate quickly enough for RLM to be selected as candidate...
    Let's hope nobody maliciously makes a complaint about Starmer then
    Yes, although I think LRM is a jerk this is alarmingly open to abuse.

    An alternative would be to say that he would be suspended *after* the election while an investigation took place.

    Edit - unless they can find a placeholder? But I suspect at this stage even if Starmer isn't playing silly buggers an NEC imposition is the only route fast enough.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,169
    edited May 29
    Roger said:

    biggles said:

    Roger said:
    Was there never an iconic image of bra burning in the mid-late sixties? It feels like there must have been.
    Lots.....Just none iconic
    But what’s the criteria here? The photo or the event?

    Not picking a political fight, just genuinely interested in some of the underlying artistic judgments here: for example, no one can deny that England Women winning the Euros “felt” significant, but that photo is just a photo. It isn’t special and didn’t exactly travel round the world - but Chloe Kelly’s celebration did.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    Because he is a far-right conspiracy theorist?
    Err, nope.

    And more to the point, using labels such as this for people one disagrees with doesn’t advance the debate in any way.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    DavidL said:

    Omnium said:

    DavidL said:

    Double wicket maiden for Sophie Eccleston. 100 wickets in ODIs. Fastest ever.
    Is it possible that one day a woman might be chosen for the mens side? Her? Obviously doesn't has the strength to bat competitively but she is a truly wonderful bowler. I would like to see how it went.

    Edit. Now 101.

    As much of the art of batting is just deflecting the momentum that the ball already has I'd guess that the most likely female member of the full England team will be a batter.
    I think there is so much power in batting these days. Sixes over 100m are becoming increasingly common. Not sure that any woman will have that level of power. Also. no female batsman is used to dealing with a 90mph bowler coming at their throat. I think a non fast bowler is a much better bet.
    Almost feels like they'd have a better chance at Test level - for all the Bazball stuff people can still build a big innings without a single six, plenty of top players at Test level are not famed as the biggest of hitters, so raw power is less important than in ODI or T20.

    Obviousy the base level of top athletes is still there with any disparity between sexes, but it seems more achievable.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    ydoethur said:

    The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

    You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

    This IS due process. Someone makes a complaint. The party suspends the member whilst it investigates the complaint.

    The only problem here is the timing, because it is impossible to investigate quickly enough for RLM to be selected as candidate...
    Let's hope nobody maliciously makes a complaint about Starmer then
    Yes, although I think LRM is a jerk this is alarmingly open to abuse.

    An alternative would be to say that he would be suspended *after* the election while an investigation took place.

    Edit - unless they can find a placeholder? But I suspect at this stage even if Starmer isn't playing silly buggers an NEC imposition is the only route fast enough.
    It's open to abuse in many ways from many fronts. It stinks.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,169
    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
    Do these YouTube things cut through, or preach to the converted? Honest question. Social media passes me by.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    Roger said:

    Roger said:
    Oh God, that's so fucking Guardian.

    No wonder you like it.
    LOL! I don't believe you are this philistine Hooray Henry you pretend to be.
    I can respect women whilst also loving looking at and fancying women.

    Guardianistas try and deny this, and lecture the rest of us, whilst going the full Opus Dei on the self-flagellation when they can't resist.

    It's silly.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    DougSeal said:

    Why does Angela Rayner wind people up here so much when no one gave a shit about Nadhim Zahawi? I know the posters here lean right and are largely reflexively anti-Labour but it really doesn’t speak well of PBers.

    Because Angela Rayner is basically the one attack point the anti-Labour posters have had for months.

    And being both working class and female they feel superior enough to be able to attack her once they had a vague reason. It stinks of desperation...
    I have no issue with Angela Rayner's background, upbringing, sex or her (rather good) dancing to 90s Old Skool anthems.

    I do have an issue with her politics and her way of personalising politics.
    Angela Rayner is the right type of working class person for the middle classes. It’s the Essex white van man or northern brexiteer types they have disdain for but they can use the likes of Rayner to say, I’m not anti working class I like Angela Rayner.

    Plenty of us are working class. Some, like Rayner, use it as a badge of honour and a political tool and the posh boys lap it up.
    Exactly so.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited May 29
    biggles said:

    Roger said:

    biggles said:

    Roger said:
    Was there never an iconic image of bra burning in the mid-late sixties? It feels like there must have been.
    Lots.....Just none iconic
    It what’s the criteria here? Not picking a political fight, just generally interested in some of the underlying artistic judgments here: for example, no one can deny that England Women winning the Euros “felt” significant, but that photo is just a photo. It isn’t special and didn’t exactly travel round the world - but Chloe Kelly’s celebration did.
    It's not particularly the photographic quality -though one of the most famous shots ever taken is here -more that they're famous shots. For example I knew them all bar three or four.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,536
    edited May 29

    The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

    You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

    This IS due process. Someone makes a complaint. The party suspends the member whilst it investigates the complaint.

    The only problem here is the timing, because it is impossible to investigate quickly enough for RLM to be selected as candidate...
    Let's hope nobody maliciously makes a complaint about Starmer then
    I suspect that wouldn’t rear its head until after the election.

    The labour left are really gormless mugs. They just want everyone to be friends and sit around the campfire singing Kumbayah.

    The labour right are ruthless.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    biggles said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
    Do these YouTube things cut through, or preach to the converted? Honest question. Social media passes me by.
    Sometimes they do, but over time most youtube personalities, like others, pander to their core support.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,930
    Sean_F said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    Saying someone is too ugly to be raped is a disgusting “joke.”
    Vile.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,209
    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
    Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,913

    Angela Rayner cleared by HMRC over tax on sale of former home

    Exclusive: Document seen by the Guardian says ‘no capital gains tax is due’ from Labour deputy leader and that case is now closed


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/29/angela-rayner-labour-cleared-hmrc-tax-sale-former-home

    I see that the usual suspects are posting that "she has got away with it".

    Yes - she got away with not breaking the law or avoiding taxes. What a monster!
    yea Donald Trump says he is innocent too!
    Well, the police, the council and HMRC have all looked at her - repeatedly in the case of the police - and found nothing wrong.

    It is, putting it simply, malicious allegations put around for the purposes of political smear.

    But, as the Tories want us all to consider MPs tax arrangements, shall we all remember Nadim "I'll Sue You" Zahawi?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,536

    Angela Rayner cleared by HMRC over tax on sale of former home

    Exclusive: Document seen by the Guardian says ‘no capital gains tax is due’ from Labour deputy leader and that case is now closed


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/29/angela-rayner-labour-cleared-hmrc-tax-sale-former-home

    I see that the usual suspects are posting that "she has got away with it".

    Yes - she got away with not breaking the law or avoiding taxes. What a monster!
    yea Donald Trump says he is innocent too!
    Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

    However a key difference between the cases is that we can specify what laws Donald Trump has broken, and on which dates too, with evidence that can be taken to court.
    They have the presumption of innocence. Not quite the same thing.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,536
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    biggles said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
    Do these YouTube things cut through, or preach to the converted? Honest question. Social media passes me by.
    It's preaching to the converted to the most part. 180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute. Even if only 0.1% of that is political that's 10 times how much as you can watch even if you did so 24 hours per day. So people are going to more attracted to stuff that strokes their feelings. How many people are really going to watch Vaush and Lotus Eaters, I suspect not many.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,755

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    I suspect with Abbott it's a degree of self-centredness and a lack of awareness of others, rather than avid anti-semitism (though I may be wrong, I don't know her personally).

    She herself has been subjected to horrendous racist abuse over the years and she struggles to accept that other ethnicities have been abused in similar, sometimes worse, ways.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Diane is at the Diane protest outside the Diane Abbott Hackney Town Hall as we speak.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,536

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    She’s really not a bigot in any way shape or form.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,209
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    Because he is a far-right conspiracy theorist?
    Err, nope.

    And more to the point, using labels such as this for people one disagrees with doesn’t advance the debate in any way.
    I’m not using a label for someone I disagree with. I’m using a label for someone who is far right and embraces conspiracy theories.

    What do you call someone who is in a protest movement with Tommy Robinson?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Howls of derision/outrage/whatever heard today on PB, are clearly demonstrating that . . .

    Keir fear is REALLY rampant here!

    For the 2-cents or less it's worth, my own take is that Starmer GAINS by pumping as much bilge off his barge as possible. Both by lightening Labour's boat AND by demonstrating that he's tough enough to do it.

    What a fictional PM used to call, "giving 'em a bit of stick". Which is a quality that voters appreciate, at least in moderation. And Keir Starmer is doing it moderately, at least in one way anyway.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,209
    I saw some posts this morning about the cost of electricity, and some people were trying to tell us that net zero was going to make electricity cheaper.

    Co-incidentally, I spent a chunk of this afternoon trying to sort out the electricity contract for work this afternoon. Business electricity is not subject to price caps, so reflects the real costs (unlike domestic pricing). Our site uses about 92,000kwh a year. The electric unit price is similar to current domestic pricing - we're being offered day rates of about 23p/unit. However the standing charge for our site has gone from about £5/a day 5 years ago, and £20/day two years ago to £29/day now.
    By the time you add the various other charges (eg 11p/kva capacity per day), the full cost for our site is about 35p/unit.

    Where is all this extra money going one might ask? Basically businesses like us are funding all the net zero infrastructure costs.

    I did the rough sums, if we bought a big diesel generator, binned off our electric connection and went "off-grid", we would save about £5k a year. Generating electricity with a piston engined diesel generator is a terribly inefficient way of producing electricity - if that's cheaper than supplying fairly large amounts of it to one physical location via an existing grid connection, whoever's running the grid have got it very, very wrong.

    Now it may be that net zero is worth this expense; that's a political question, although dumping the costs on industry in such a way as to destroy our industrial base seems a particularly dumb way to fund it. But anybody who tells you renewable energy is cheap (i.e. our whole political class) is lying to you. Whilst the sun and wind are free, unfortunately the infrastructure to collect this "free" energy is very expensive.




  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,913

    Angela Rayner cleared by HMRC over tax on sale of former home

    Exclusive: Document seen by the Guardian says ‘no capital gains tax is due’ from Labour deputy leader and that case is now closed


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/29/angela-rayner-labour-cleared-hmrc-tax-sale-former-home

    Wouldn't it be nice if James Daly was charged with wasting police time?
    A mate of mine had outrageous allegations made against him. The police investigated as the allegations were serious. Satisfied themselves that there was nothing to see. Same person repeats the allegation with an "oh yeah, there was this other occasion as well" spin. And the accuser was told very clearly by the police that they would do them for perverting the course of justice if they didn't shut up and go away.

    So yes, lets do James Daly. A man so strong in his convictions that he refused to make them in public because either he didn't understand what the whips had told him to tell the police, or because he did know, and knew they were defamatory if repeated because they were totally baseless.

    Happily we won't hear from him again after 5th July.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    No one has a right to be selected by a party or go on their own terms. Too many bad MPs can stick around a long time that way, or have to be bought off with Peerages. So whilst I have some sympathy with her position in that it seems as though her punishment was done and yet more unofficial measures are being sought, it is also being overplayed, as parties are permitted to choose who stands for them.

    Bringing the public into it as some have is a misdirection I think. Popular though Abbott may be in Hackney the local people never had a choice about her being their Labour candidate, so a choice is not being taken away from them.

    I'm not sure of the solution, as the US system of primaries seems to engender radicalism, and mandatory reselection might have the same issues.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
    Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
    No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,209
    DM_Andy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
    Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
    No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
    You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

    Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,536

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.

    If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    The NEC thanking Rishi for the unexpected GE giving them carte blanche to move fast in the urgent situation.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,169
    South African election looks interesting. Probably way more consequential than ours now Starmer is in charge of Labour.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    kle4 said:

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    No one has a right to be selected by a party or go on their own terms. Too many bad MPs can stick around a long time that way, or have to be bought off with Peerages. So whilst I have some sympathy with her position in that it seems as though her punishment was done and yet more unofficial measures are being sought, it is also being overplayed, as parties are permitted to choose who stands for them.

    Bringing the public into it as some have is a misdirection I think. Popular though Abbott may be in Hackney the local people never had a choice about her being their Labour candidate, so a choice is not being taken away from them.

    I'm not sure of the solution, as the US system of primaries seems to engender radicalism, and mandatory reselection might have the same issues.
    I think the introduction of STV as in Ireland and Scottish local elections would be perfect, if you want more seats you have to be transfer friendly as well as reduce the chance of an overwhelming majority on only 40% of the vote.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,702
    Today I learned that Moldova is maybe the only country in the world named after someone’s dog. True story

    Dalmatia doesn’t count
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Another Labour candidate being possibly purged. IDS will be a happier man potentially.

    https://x.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1795879898491343314?s=61
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127

    DM_Andy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
    Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
    No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
    You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

    Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
    I've already explained and I don't want to repeat myself.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    Taz said:

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.

    If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
    It has been handled badly by Starmer and it is peeling loads of people off the left flank, but I can't find my tiny violin. Back in the 1980s I was associated with Camden Labour Association, and I would hear stories of national treasures like Bernie Grant and Abbott. Both had reputations for being arrogant and entitled.

    The people crying on behalf of Abbott couldn't give a shiny one to see the back of the Conservatives.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    Taz said:

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.

    If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
    She's been hard done by at the end, that seems fair enough. She was no threat to the leadership anymore, and could have been restored.

    But she's an adult and a formidble personality I'm sure to have become an MP as she did, and politics can be rough. If someone is politically friendless in a party (a party they have been in for a long time) to what extent is that by their own choice as well?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,313
    edited May 29
    I know IDS is a faithful Roman Catholic but I don't think even he thought he could have been that lucky however many Hail Marys he said.

    If the official Labour candidate Fazia Shaheen (who also stood last time for Labour and has a big following in the left of Labour) has been suspended and stands as an Independent against whoever replaces her as Labour candidate IDS has just gone from a 1% chance of victory to a near 50% chance of victory even on current polls as the Labour vote in Chingford and Woodford Green would split in 2
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited May 29
    Diane is standing, 'by whatever means possible' 'I will not be intimidated'
    Fight is on
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,209

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    Because he is a far-right conspiracy theorist?
    Err, nope.

    And more to the point, using labels such as this for people one disagrees with doesn’t advance the debate in any way.
    I’m not using a label for someone I disagree with. I’m using a label for someone who is far right and embraces conspiracy theories.

    What do you call someone who is in a protest movement with Tommy Robinson?
    Sandpit, can we find some point of agreement? Would you be OK with me calling Tommy Robinson a far right conspiracy theorist (and a criminal)?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,258
    Cookie said:

    Isn't Angela Rayner a stepmom?

    Just saying...

    StepMUM. She isn't American!
    Ah, I thought "Stepmum" was the term you used for people who... aren't in videos. While "Stepmom" is for... performers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,313

    Diane is standing, 'by whatever means necessary'

    Another Corbynite v Starmerite battle then in Hackney, this is unnecessary from Starmer, even Blair kept Tony Benn, Abbott and Skinner and Corbyn as Labour candidates
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,536

    Taz said:

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.

    If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
    It has been handled badly by Starmer and it is peeling loads of people off the left flank, but I can't find my tiny violin. Back in the 1980s I was associated with Camden Labour Association, and I would hear stories of national treasures like Bernie Grant and Abbott. Both had reputations for being arrogant and entitled.
    Obviously that makes them unique

    Anecdotal stories. Must be true. Bit uppity are/were they. Should they know their place and thank us for allowing them a seat at the table ?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,258

    DougSeal said:

    Why does Angela Rayner wind people up here so much when no one gave a shit about Nadhim Zahawi? I know the posters here lean right and are largely reflexively anti-Labour but it really doesn’t speak well of PBers.

    Personally I think he is a disgrace. I thought Boris Johnson was a disgrace. I think Angela Rayner is a disgrace. Corbyn was a massive disgrace.

    I would like to see honest politicians. There are some out there in most of the parties.
    Do you have any evidence for that assertion?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    Sean_F said:

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    Diane Abbott is both a kind-hearted woman
    (to which I can personally attest), and a somewhat flawed politician. People are complicated.
    She's all yours. Would you vote for her? I wouldn't.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,755
    edited May 29
    Is the Trump jury expected to pend several days deliberating, or will they wrap it up today?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,536
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.

    If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
    She's been hard done by at the end, that seems fair enough. She was no threat to the leadership anymore, and could have been restored.

    But she's an adult and a formidble personality I'm sure to have become an MP as she did, and politics can be rough. If someone is politically friendless in a party (a party they have been in for a long time) to what extent is that by their own choice as well?
    Or has the party moved when they haven’t ?

    I’d like to think labour still,is a broad church and has room for all factions.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,261
    However, critics were quick to point out that the list didn’t contain a single chief executive of a FTSE 100 company. Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/29/labour-new-business-elite-reeves-starmer/

    The list is as bad as the dodgy dossier of PPE suppliers that Labour declared the government must use ASAP during COVID.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,478

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    And it seems that the person who told the Times that she'd been binned did so after Abbott herself told the BBC that she'd been barred (based on, it appears, on absolutely no concrete information).

    So it could well be the case that the Times' leaker was actually just repeating something they'd heard from Abbott.

    It's all a bit circular, and feels a bit like the actions of someone determined to be upset come what may.

    (That's not to say that the party shouldn't have tried harder to keep her happy, of course - but Abbott isn't just an innocent victim in this mess)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    edited May 29
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.

    If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
    It has been handled badly by Starmer and it is peeling loads of people off the left flank, but I can't find my tiny violin. Back in the 1980s I was associated with Camden Labour Association, and I would hear stories of national treasures like Bernie Grant and Abbott. Both had reputations for being arrogant and entitled.
    Obviously that makes them unique

    Anecdotal stories. Must be true. Bit uppity are/were they. Should they know their place and thank us for allowing them a seat at the table ?
    No, but if someone is arrogant and uppity neither should their personal characteristics be used to divert from that. I have no anecdotes of either of them, so cannot speak to them, though apparently Abbott was liked well enough partnered up with Portillo.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 44% (+1)
    CON: 27% (+1)
    LDM: 10% (=)
    RFM: 8% (-1)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Via @Savanta_UK, 24-26 May.
    Changes w/ 17-19 May.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,258
    kle4 said:

    The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

    You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

    If it were a Starmerite you'd be right. The purge is afoot. Leftists beware!
    But I keep hearing about how much of a leftist Sir Keir is!
    Exactly: leftists are keen on purges (see Stalin). Keir is doing purges. Therefore Starmer is (at least as left wing as) Stalin.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,313
    edited May 29

    Is the Trump jury expected to pend several days deliberating, or will they wrap it up today?

    Why don't you ask them? The thing about jury trial is nobody knows what the jury is thinking once it goes into the jury room to deliberate on its verdict, even the judge and defendant and counsel
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,261
    edited May 29

    The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

    You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

    The guy is an absolute bellend, but it really stinks. It could also absolutely open the floodgates for all parties, you just need one person to make some difficult to disprove complaint about historic bad behaviour now and they are off the campaign.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,536
    ToryJim said:

    Another Labour candidate being possibly purged. IDS will be a happier man potentially.

    https://x.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1795879898491343314?s=61

    The other day she was posting the number one issue on the doorstep was Gaza.

    Last time labour put a lot,of resource into her seat as they thought she could win and she lost.

    SKS is appearing to be a control freak. How does that reflect for his time in govt ?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,755

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 44% (+1)
    CON: 27% (+1)
    LDM: 10% (=)
    RFM: 8% (-1)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Via @Savanta_UK, 24-26 May.
    Changes w/ 17-19 May.

    Pah! 17% lead - hung parliament beckons.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    HYUFD said:



    Diane is standing, 'by whatever means necessary'

    Another Corbynite v Starmerite battle then in Hackney, this is unnecessary from Starmer, even Blair kept Tony Benn, Abbott and Skinner and Corbyn as Labour candidates
    Blair was in a slightly different situation in that the left had been put back in their box over nearly a decade and a half. Starmer has to deal with a left that is stronger and less completely discredited than Blair had to handle. He might be over doing things but he probably feels the need to assert the amount of change. Blair largely took the credit for Kinnocks heavy lifting.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 44% (+1)
    CON: 27% (+1)
    LDM: 10% (=)
    RFM: 8% (-1)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Via @Savanta_UK, 24-26 May.
    Changes w/ 17-19 May.

    Looks more realistic but with 3 points down on Labour and on the LDs.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

    You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

    If it were a Starmerite you'd be right. The purge is afoot. Leftists beware!
    But I keep hearing about how much of a leftist Sir Keir is!
    Exactly: leftists are keen on purges (see Stalin). Keir is doing purges. Therefore Starmer is (at least as left wing as) Stalin.
    There's definitely something for me, there, with SKS in punishing those who go against him.

    And that applies to any faction of the party, even though it's most common on the far-left.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,209

    I think the Abbott debacle (along with other mis-steps) shows Starmer’s political inexperience.

    We’re about to replace one politically inexperienced technocrat with another. Both men are smart, both sincere in wanting to better the country’s lot, via different routes, both have been in front line politics for less than a decade.

    That’s why I fear he relies too heavily on SPADs, who are “clever”.

    I suspect we’re in for a bumpy ride.

    The main thing this story shows Starmer is ruthless. Abbott's sacking was botched almost certainly by an aide, not by Starmer himself.

    There's an argument whether Starmer's interest is better served by accommodating political difference or by instilling a degree of fear in his colleagues so they toe the line. In any case Abbott was collateral damage. It isn't about her personally.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.

    If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
    She's been hard done by at the end, that seems fair enough. She was no threat to the leadership anymore, and could have been restored.

    But she's an adult and a formidble personality I'm sure to have become an MP as she did, and politics can be rough. If someone is politically friendless in a party (a party they have been in for a long time) to what extent is that by their own choice as well?
    Or has the party moved when they haven’t ?

    I’d like to think labour still,is a broad church and has room for all factions.

    That's a separate if possibly tangential issue - whether the party is as inclusive of internal factions as it should be - to whether as an individual someone has support from colleagues.

    That was part of Corbyn's problem apparently - a nice enough man to his colleagues, but not really well known or supported, so leading the party was very hard, lacking those personal relationships.

    Abbott is not seeking to lead the party, and it may be that if Keir is pushing out factional opponents he is making the wrong call, but if there is not a fuss in the party, I'd be curious why that is.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,536
    edited May 29
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.

    If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
    It has been handled badly by Starmer and it is peeling loads of people off the left flank, but I can't find my tiny violin. Back in the 1980s I was associated with Camden Labour Association, and I would hear stories of national treasures like Bernie Grant and Abbott. Both had reputations for being arrogant and entitled.
    Obviously that makes them unique

    Anecdotal stories. Must be true. Bit uppity are/were they. Should they know their place and thank us for allowing them a seat at the table ?
    No, but if someone is arrogant and uppity neither should their personal characteristics be used to divert from that. I have no anecdotes of either of them, so cannot speak to them, though apparently Abbott was liked well enough partnered up with Portillo.
    I would not take on trust unverified stories that are anecdotal from a political opponent of hers.

    Earlier today someone posted comparing Abbotts performance against Labour's and she has outperformed labours electoral performance consistently. So she must be liked by some
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,957
    FF43 said:

    I think the Abbott debacle (along with other mis-steps) shows Starmer’s political inexperience.

    We’re about to replace one politically inexperienced technocrat with another. Both men are smart, both sincere in wanting to better the country’s lot, via different routes, both have been in front line politics for less than a decade.

    That’s why I fear he relies too heavily on SPADs, who are “clever”.

    I suspect we’re in for a bumpy ride.

    The main thing this story shows Starmer is ruthless. Abbott's sacking was botched almost certainly by an aide, not by Starmer himself.

    There's an argument whether Starmer's interest is better served by accommodating political difference or by instilling a degree of fear in his colleagues so they toe the line. In any case Abbott was collateral damage. It isn't about her personally.
    Almost certainly by an aide?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,755

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

    You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

    If it were a Starmerite you'd be right. The purge is afoot. Leftists beware!
    But I keep hearing about how much of a leftist Sir Keir is!
    Exactly: leftists are keen on purges (see Stalin). Keir is doing purges. Therefore Starmer is (at least as left wing as) Stalin.
    There's definitely something for me, there, with SKS in punishing those who go against him.

    And that applies to any faction of the party, even though it's most common on the far-left.
    Indeed, who can forget far-lefty Boris Johnsonovich expelling 21 members of the politbureau, eh?

    https://news.sky.com/story/ex-chancellors-and-churchills-grandson-the-21-tories-sacked-for-defying-boris-johnson-over-brexit-11801765
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    Taz said:

    ToryJim said:

    Another Labour candidate being possibly purged. IDS will be a happier man potentially.

    https://x.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1795879898491343314?s=61

    The other day she was posting the number one issue on the doorstep was Gaza.
    People can care about foreign affairs, but if that is the number one issue on the doorstep in a constituency I'd be assuming a pushing bias from the person reporting it, or something really odd about that constituency. Not the NHS, cost of living, climate change, nothing?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,801
    Sean_F said:

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    Diane Abbott is both a kind-hearted woman
    (to which I can personally attest), and a somewhat flawed politician. People are complicated.
    She's Diane Abbott. Surely she'll get a place in the House of Lords, and no matter her faults, to my mind she has one of the best claims to a place in that House.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,755

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 44% (+1)
    CON: 27% (+1)
    LDM: 10% (=)
    RFM: 8% (-1)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Via @Savanta_UK, 24-26 May.
    Changes w/ 17-19 May.

    Looks more realistic but with 3 points down on Labour and on the LDs.
    So realistic but wrong. Right, got it.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,171
    Taz said:

    ToryJim said:

    Another Labour candidate being possibly purged. IDS will be a happier man potentially.

    https://x.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1795879898491343314?s=61

    The other day she was posting the number one issue on the doorstep was Gaza.

    Last time labour put a lot,of resource into her seat as they thought she could win and she lost.

    SKS is appearing to be a control freak. How does that reflect for his time in govt ?
    That he's getting rid of the fruitcakes nuts and loons?

    Pretty good actually.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited May 29
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

    You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

    If it were a Starmerite you'd be right. The purge is afoot. Leftists beware!
    But I keep hearing about how much of a leftist Sir Keir is!
    Exactly: leftists are keen on purges (see Stalin). Keir is doing purges. Therefore Starmer is (at least as left wing as) Stalin.
    Funnily enough Clare Short of Blairs cabinet called him a Stalinist today and pledged for the Greens
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.

    If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
    It has been handled badly by Starmer and it is peeling loads of people off the left flank, but I can't find my tiny violin. Back in the 1980s I was associated with Camden Labour Association, and I would hear stories of national treasures like Bernie Grant and Abbott. Both had reputations for being arrogant and entitled.
    Obviously that makes them unique

    Anecdotal stories. Must be true. Bit uppity are/were they. Should they know their place and thank us for allowing them a seat at the table ?
    I am old enough to remember when PB Tory favourite Diane Abbott was being laughed at by PB Tories for wearing two left ( or right) shoes and for being unable to count.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,817

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

    You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

    If it were a Starmerite you'd be right. The purge is afoot. Leftists beware!
    But I keep hearing about how much of a leftist Sir Keir is!
    Exactly: leftists are keen on purges (see Stalin). Keir is doing purges. Therefore Starmer is (at least as left wing as) Stalin.
    Funnily enough Clare Short of Blairs cabinet called him a Stalinist today and pledged for the Greens
    I think that a pretty net positive for Starmer .
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Starmer not the only lefty doing purges. Greens have booted out their former London mayoral candidate.

    https://x.com/darrenjohnson66/status/1795504603259085265?s=61
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Lol, Rob Roberts running as an indy. Dirty sod
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,478

    Diane is standing, 'by whatever means possible' 'I will not be intimidated'
    Fight is on

    So Abbott has decided to force the decision.

    Probably unwise of her. Hackney North and Stoke Newington is going to be much less fertile ground for an independent Abbott campaign than Islington North is for Corbyn.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,261
    edited May 29
    ToryJim said:

    Starmer not the only lefty doing purges. Greens have booted out their former London mayoral candidate.

    https://x.com/darrenjohnson66/status/1795504603259085265?s=61

    So its a tweet complaining about the use of puberty blockers, not going on some hate filled rant about the Jews (that is allowed in the Green party).
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 44% (+1)
    CON: 27% (+1)
    LDM: 10% (=)
    RFM: 8% (-1)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Via @Savanta_UK, 24-26 May.
    Changes w/ 17-19 May.

    Looks more realistic but with 3 points down on Labour and on the LDs.
    So realistic but wrong. Right, got it.
    It's what I'm forecasting and betting on, right now.

    A 14 point lead and solid labour majority not enough for you?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,721
    edited May 29
    Would all these people improve their chances if they stood together under a united banner?

    Corbyn
    Abbott
    Shaheen
    Russell-Moyle
    Begum

    Not sure they would want to join with Galloway?

    But even if they don't join Galloway there are now potentially enough of them to have some critical mass.

    And who knows, more may join them - whether kicked out or even voluntarily - eg McDonnell?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    AlsoLei said:

    Diane is standing, 'by whatever means possible' 'I will not be intimidated'
    Fight is on

    So Abbott has decided to force the decision.

    Probably unwise of her. Hackney North and Stoke Newington is going to be much less fertile ground for an independent Abbott campaign than Islington North is for Corbyn.
    Whilst it will make no overall difference it will lose labour more votes outside Hackney than she costs them there. A lot of anger bubbling up over it. They are fortunate to be 20 clear
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.

    If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
    It has been handled badly by Starmer and it is peeling loads of people off the left flank, but I can't find my tiny violin. Back in the 1980s I was associated with Camden Labour Association, and I would hear stories of national treasures like Bernie Grant and Abbott. Both had reputations for being arrogant and entitled.
    Obviously that makes them unique

    Anecdotal stories. Must be true. Bit uppity are/were they. Should they know their place and thank us for allowing them a seat at the table ?
    No, but if someone is arrogant and uppity neither should their personal characteristics be used to divert from that. I have no anecdotes of either of them, so cannot speak to them, though apparently Abbott was liked well enough partnered up with Portillo.
    I would not take on trust unverified stories that are anecdotal from a political opponent of hers.

    Earlier today someone posted comparing Abbotts performance against Labour's and she has outperformed labours electoral performance consistently. So she must be liked by some
    Anecdote is anecdote, obviously it has flaws. I don't really see how anecdotes about the internal machinations of a constituency party really relate to her electoral performance though, as someone could be a great MP (and as a backbencher for most of her career I'd assume she was pretty good) but not get on with local officials or colleagues - I know councillors who cannot stand their local MP who is of the same party as them for instance.

    She may be a lovely person, so might most MPs, but the public hardly witholds judgement on Bill Cash or Ian Blackford or Daisy Cooper, even though we would at best have anecdotal reports for all of them. We've heard stupid things Andrew Bridgen has said, but we don't know him, and he has outperformed Tory electoral performance and must be liked be some too. Would we be obliged to hold off on any criticism if we heard a report from someone that he was arrogant?


  • TazTaz Posts: 14,536
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    ToryJim said:

    Another Labour candidate being possibly purged. IDS will be a happier man potentially.

    https://x.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1795879898491343314?s=61

    The other day she was posting the number one issue on the doorstep was Gaza.
    People can care about foreign affairs, but if that is the number one issue on the doorstep in a constituency I'd be assuming a pushing bias from the person reporting it, or something really odd about that constituency. Not the NHS, cost of living, climate change, nothing?
    I agree. I suspect she was finding what she wanted to find.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,536

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.

    If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
    It has been handled badly by Starmer and it is peeling loads of people off the left flank, but I can't find my tiny violin. Back in the 1980s I was associated with Camden Labour Association, and I would hear stories of national treasures like Bernie Grant and Abbott. Both had reputations for being arrogant and entitled.
    Obviously that makes them unique

    Anecdotal stories. Must be true. Bit uppity are/were they. Should they know their place and thank us for allowing them a seat at the table ?
    I am old enough to remember when PB Tory favourite Diane Abbott was being laughed at by PB Tories for wearing two left ( or right) shoes and for being unable to count.
    So what ?

    I was not here then.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,927
    Evening all :)

    Looking at the More In Common data.

    The "forced choice" option among the Undecideds who are likely to vote splits 46% Don't Know, 17% Conservative and 15% Labour so hard to say the DKs are breaking decisively for either of the two main parties (and this has been shown in other polls).

    The baseline is Labour 33%, Conservative 18% - the YouGov split was 33-14 so there's the difference - the two sample sizes similar at just over 2000.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,258
    theProle said:

    I saw some posts this morning about the cost of electricity, and some people were trying to tell us that net zero was going to make electricity cheaper.

    Co-incidentally, I spent a chunk of this afternoon trying to sort out the electricity contract for work this afternoon. Business electricity is not subject to price caps, so reflects the real costs (unlike domestic pricing). Our site uses about 92,000kwh a year. The electric unit price is similar to current domestic pricing - we're being offered day rates of about 23p/unit. However the standing charge for our site has gone from about £5/a day 5 years ago, and £20/day two years ago to £29/day now.
    By the time you add the various other charges (eg 11p/kva capacity per day), the full cost for our site is about 35p/unit.

    Where is all this extra money going one might ask? Basically businesses like us are funding all the net zero infrastructure costs.

    I did the rough sums, if we bought a big diesel generator, binned off our electric connection and went "off-grid", we would save about £5k a year. Generating electricity with a piston engined diesel generator is a terribly inefficient way of producing electricity - if that's cheaper than supplying fairly large amounts of it to one physical location via an existing grid connection, whoever's running the grid have got it very, very wrong.

    Now it may be that net zero is worth this expense; that's a political question, although dumping the costs on industry in such a way as to destroy our industrial base seems a particularly dumb way to fund it. But anybody who tells you renewable energy is cheap (i.e. our whole political class) is lying to you. Whilst the sun and wind are free, unfortunately the infrastructure to collect this "free" energy is very expensive.




    Hang on: when you say you are saving £5k per year, are you including *all* the costs?

    Are you including the cost of the generator? Are you also recognizing that they do not last forever, and any money you spent on the generator could have been spent on a productive asset (i.e. money has a cost).

    Diesel generators are also not maintenance free. And you will have downtime when it is not generating power; how do you plan on dealing with that?

    Natural gas powered combined heating and power units - where you have your hot water as byproduct - are (a) massively more reliable (as you don't have particulate build-up over time), (b) are designed to run 24/7 and (c) may well be cheaper once you remember that you won't be paying anything additional for hot water or heating.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited May 29
    MikeL said:

    Would all these people improve their chances if they stood together under a united banner?

    Corbyn
    Abbott
    Shaheen
    Russell-Moyle
    Begum

    Not sure they would want to join with Galloway?

    But even if they don't join Galloway there are now potentially enough of them to have some critical mass.

    And who knows, more may join them - whether kicked out or even voluntarily - eg McDonnell?

    Corbyn and Abbott wouldn't join Galloway imo (he has pledged to support them as indies though), Begum, Shaheen possibly, Brussels Boiled not sure
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited May 29
    They've just had an Orthodox Rabbi on Ch4 saying who has known Diane Abbott for many years and said there is nothing racist or anti semitic about her. He said "Starmer has no compassion. None at all".

    He's right. He's behaved like a little man scared to death of someone with a following and a notable history.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,801
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.

    If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
    It has been handled badly by Starmer and it is peeling loads of people off the left flank, but I can't find my tiny violin. Back in the 1980s I was associated with Camden Labour Association, and I would hear stories of national treasures like Bernie Grant and Abbott. Both had reputations for being arrogant and entitled.
    Obviously that makes them unique

    Anecdotal stories. Must be true. Bit uppity are/were they. Should they know their place and thank us for allowing them a seat at the table ?
    No, but if someone is arrogant and uppity neither should their personal characteristics be used to divert from that. I have no anecdotes of either of them, so cannot speak to them, though apparently Abbott was liked well enough partnered up with Portillo.
    I would not take on trust unverified stories that are anecdotal from a political opponent of hers.

    Earlier today someone posted comparing Abbotts performance against Labour's and she has outperformed labours electoral performance consistently. So she must be liked by some
    Anecdote is anecdote, obviously it has flaws. I don't really see how anecdotes about the internal machinations of a constituency party really relate to her electoral performance though, as someone could be a great MP (and as a backbencher for most of her career I'd assume she was pretty good) but not get on with local officials or colleagues - I know councillors who cannot stand their local MP who is of the same party as them for instance.

    She may be a lovely person, so might most MPs, but the public hardly witholds judgement on Bill Cash or Ian Blackford or Daisy Cooper, even though we would at best have anecdotal reports for all of them. We've heard stupid things Andrew Bridgen has said, but we don't know him, and he has outperformed Tory electoral performance and must be liked be some too. Would we be obliged to hold off on any criticism if we heard a report from someone that he was arrogant?


    The last constituencies to elect a really nice and honourable MP were probably the rotten boroughs.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    Taz said:

    ToryJim said:

    Another Labour candidate being possibly purged. IDS will be a happier man potentially.

    https://x.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1795879898491343314?s=61

    SKS is appearing to be a control freak. How does that reflect for his time in govt ?
    I doubt there is a universal consensus about the correct balance between seeking to control things versus being too uninvolved to the point of laziness.

    We shall soon find out.

    A funny outcome would be some of the more self confident shadow cabinet members not getting into the Cabinet proper, or dumped in as NI Secretary or something (important, to be sure, but not the position people would hope for), as Keir surprises them on the day.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,258

    DM_Andy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
    Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
    No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
    You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

    Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
    If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
This discussion has been closed.