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One week on and betting markets remain utterly convinced about Starmer winning a majority

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,351
    Omnium said:

    Sean_F said:

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    Diane Abbott is both a kind-hearted woman
    (to which I can personally attest), and a somewhat flawed politician. People are complicated.
    She's Diane Abbott. Surely she'll get a place in the House of Lords, and no matter her faults, to my mind she has one of the best claims to a place in that House.
    Agreed. Punt her up to the Lords. She’s earned it (unlike many)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,201
    Have we done the latest Ed Davey photo op.

    He looks terrified, but I'm already on quota today so I can't post it.

    Straight out of the Hovis advert.

    https://x.com/Alamy_Editorial/status/1795770112886099977

    Cycle Chic it is not.
    https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-female-cyclist-and-children-riding-with-their-legs-outstretched-cycling-24963021.html
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127

    MikeL said:

    Would all these people improve their chances if they stood together under a united banner?

    Corbyn
    Abbott
    Shaheen
    Russell-Moyle
    Begum

    Not sure they would want to join with Galloway?

    But even if they don't join Galloway there are now potentially enough of them to have some critical mass.

    And who knows, more may join them - whether kicked out or even voluntarily - eg McDonnell?

    Corbyn and Abbott wouldn't join Galloway imo (he has pledged to support them as indies though), Begum, Shaheen possibly, Brussels Boiled not sure
    Why would LRM join up with George "I don't want my children to be taught that gay relationships are normal" Galloway?

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Sean_F said:

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    Diane Abbott is both a kind-hearted woman
    (to which I can personally attest), and a somewhat flawed politician. People are complicated.
    She's Diane Abbott. Surely she'll get a place in the House of Lords, and no matter her faults, to my mind she has one of the best claims to a place in that House.
    Agreed. Punt her up to the Lords. She’s earned it (unlike many)
    Sadly that goes against one of my proposed House of Lords quickie reforms, if Keir is looking to do something without wasting capital on a full scale reform.

    No MP may become a Peer until 8 years or 2 parliamentary terms has passed, whichever is longer.

    The point of it being to ensure ex-MPs earn a place with post parliamentary work, and that it is not treated as a retirement home, or a way to convince recalcitrant MPs to step aside.

    But on current rules she'd be a shoo-in.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    Omnium said:

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    She’s been treated like shit. I don’t blame her.

    If this was someone like Jess Phillips the PB centrist dads would be crying into their Kleenex mansoze.
    It has been handled badly by Starmer and it is peeling loads of people off the left flank, but I can't find my tiny violin. Back in the 1980s I was associated with Camden Labour Association, and I would hear stories of national treasures like Bernie Grant and Abbott. Both had reputations for being arrogant and entitled.
    Obviously that makes them unique

    Anecdotal stories. Must be true. Bit uppity are/were they. Should they know their place and thank us for allowing them a seat at the table ?
    No, but if someone is arrogant and uppity neither should their personal characteristics be used to divert from that. I have no anecdotes of either of them, so cannot speak to them, though apparently Abbott was liked well enough partnered up with Portillo.
    I would not take on trust unverified stories that are anecdotal from a political opponent of hers.

    Earlier today someone posted comparing Abbotts performance against Labour's and she has outperformed labours electoral performance consistently. So she must be liked by some
    Anecdote is anecdote, obviously it has flaws. I don't really see how anecdotes about the internal machinations of a constituency party really relate to her electoral performance though, as someone could be a great MP (and as a backbencher for most of her career I'd assume she was pretty good) but not get on with local officials or colleagues - I know councillors who cannot stand their local MP who is of the same party as them for instance.

    She may be a lovely person, so might most MPs, but the public hardly witholds judgement on Bill Cash or Ian Blackford or Daisy Cooper, even though we would at best have anecdotal reports for all of them. We've heard stupid things Andrew Bridgen has said, but we don't know him, and he has outperformed Tory electoral performance and must be liked be some too. Would we be obliged to hold off on any criticism if we heard a report from someone that he was arrogant?


    The last constituencies to elect a really nice and honourable MP were probably the rotten boroughs.

    I'm waiting on the result from Dunny-on-the-Wold, it should be really close.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,770
    MattW said:

    Have we done the latest Ed Davey photo op.

    He looks terrified, but I'm already on quota today so I can't post it.

    Straight out of the Hovis advert.

    https://x.com/Alamy_Editorial/status/1795770112886099977

    Cycle Chic it is not.
    https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-female-cyclist-and-children-riding-with-their-legs-outstretched-cycling-24963021.html

    William Hague without the good points.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    So, you know RLM, recently outrageously deselected? I assume that when he demanded the mandatory reselection of Labour MPs that the MPs he envisaged being removed by a partisan putsch were awful Blairite types?

    Do have to laugh…
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,478
    Chortle. Not as advertised.

    "Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.

    The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”

    This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/29/labour-new-business-elite-reeves-starmer/
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    MikeL said:

    Would all these people improve their chances if they stood together under a united banner?

    Corbyn
    Abbott
    Shaheen
    Russell-Moyle
    Begum

    Not sure they would want to join with Galloway?

    But even if they don't join Galloway there are now potentially enough of them to have some critical mass.

    And who knows, more may join them - whether kicked out or even voluntarily - eg McDonnell?

    Most of that lot wouldn't be seen dead in Galloway's WPB.

    You're right that they could plausibly have stood together - perhaps not as a party in the traditional sense, more likely as an informal alliance. But they've probably left it too late.

    Corbyn's not really ruthless enough, and probably still has too much residual loyalty to the party. But I suspect it actually might've worked out better for Labour if he'd gone for it a year ago - resigned from the party, set up a new grouping, attracted a few like-minded defectors.

    If nothing else, it would have cauterized the wound.
  • sbjme19sbjme19 Posts: 194
    Taz said:

    ToryJim said:

    Another Labour candidate being possibly purged. IDS will be a happier man potentially.

    https://x.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1795879898491343314?s=61

    The other day she was posting the number one issue on the doorstep was Gaza.

    Last time labour put a lot,of resource into her seat as they thought she could win and she lost.

    SKS is appearing to be a control freak. How does that reflect for his time in govt ?
    I've wondered why IDS wasn't stepping down like so many other Tories when he was in a highly vulnerable position. Perhaps having experienced his opponent already he took the view there was still everything to play for.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    ToryJim said:

    Starmer not the only lefty doing purges. Greens have booted out their former London mayoral candidate.

    https://x.com/darrenjohnson66/status/1795504603259085265?s=61

    at one point the Greens had two leaders because they presumably wanted a few different view points - how things change - The greens seems to have turned into the most extreme party - which might not be so bad if it was about environmental policies but that seems boring to them now when they can play in Middle East politics and take on board anything Stonewall comes out with
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,182

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    The Lloyd Russell Moyle case smells terrible.

    You’d think SKS KC ex-DPP would be all about due process.

    If it were a Starmerite you'd be right. The purge is afoot. Leftists beware!
    But I keep hearing about how much of a leftist Sir Keir is!
    Exactly: leftists are keen on purges (see Stalin). Keir is doing purges. Therefore Starmer is (at least as left wing as) Stalin.
    Funnily enough Clare Short of Blairs cabinet called him a Stalinist today and pledged for the Greens
    Ah yes, that reliable Blairite Clare Short.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    Roger said:

    They've just had an Orthodox Rabbi on Ch4 saying who has known Diane Abbott for many years and said there is nothing racist or anti semitic about her. He said "Starmer has no compassion. None at all".

    He's right. He's behaved like a little man scared to death of someone with a following and a notable history.

    I would defer to AlsoLei as they have more local knowledge but my understanding is the Charedi Jewish community are quite supportive of Corbyn and Abbott.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    If they join together as well as co-ordinating resources etc they will get more media attention.

    Four of them are in London - Corbyn, Abbott, Shaheen and Begum. Which means more coverage on London regional TV news, London newspapers etc.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,418
    Independent charity the Runnymede Trust comes out for Diane Abbott.

    https://x.com/runnymedetrust/status/1795726971558846697?s=61
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,035
    edited May 29

    Chortle. Not as advertised.

    "Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.

    The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”

    This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/29/labour-new-business-elite-reeves-starmer/

    On a serious note, I am trying to remember a stat I heard the other day, but basically the UK has very few middle sized firms anymore (and this has been true from before Brexit). People are either working for absolutely giant multi-nationals or very small businesses with a couple of handfuls of people. And of the firms with a few 100/1000, many are really just subsidiaries of one group.

    I don't know if that is unique to the UK, or if that is just globalisation for you. If its the former, is this another problem in the economy that companies are finding it impossible to grow out of that very small business.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited May 29
    AlsoLei said:

    MikeL said:

    Would all these people improve their chances if they stood together under a united banner?

    Corbyn
    Abbott
    Shaheen
    Russell-Moyle
    Begum

    Not sure they would want to join with Galloway?

    But even if they don't join Galloway there are now potentially enough of them to have some critical mass.

    And who knows, more may join them - whether kicked out or even voluntarily - eg McDonnell?

    Most of that lot wouldn't be seen dead in Galloway's WPB.

    You're right that they could plausibly have stood together - perhaps not as a party in the traditional sense, more likely as an informal alliance. But they've probably left it too late.

    Corbyn's not really ruthless enough, and probably still has too much residual loyalty to the party. But I suspect it actually might've worked out better for Labour if he'd gone for it a year ago - resigned from the party, set up a new grouping, attracted a few like-minded defectors.

    If nothing else, it would have cauterized the wound.
    Change UK did rubbish when malcontents from the main parties joined up . Corbyn is better on his own because like Galloway he is respected by many who do not share or know his politics
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,351
    I can report that having met 4 of them over dinner, Moldovans are really nice. Friendly. Sexy young women. Surprisingly good food. Excellent wine

    I love crappy little countries because they have to try really really hard. And they often succeed
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    Your regular reminder that our top political parties are practically best friends compared to how things go in america.

    A Trump supporter wearing a “Hang Biden for treason” shirt claims the Coronavirus was “released intentionally” by Dems to steal the 2020 election:

    “It was a Plandemic and everyone knows it…Everyone responsible for it should be at the end of a noose”

    https://nitter.poast.org/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1795884604869542243#m
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    Because he is a far-right conspiracy theorist?
    Err, nope.

    And more to the point, using labels such as this for people one disagrees with doesn’t advance the debate in any way.
    I’m trying to figure out why you follow such a figure (not to mention the
    ToryJim said:

    Starmer not the only lefty doing purges. Greens have booted out their former London mayoral candidate.

    https://x.com/darrenjohnson66/status/1795504603259085265?s=61

    That tweet reads like something out of Orwell.

    This sort of shit is why I could not support the Greens, who appear to be a pack of utter loons.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,478
    MattW said:

    Have we done the latest Ed Davey photo op.

    He looks terrified, but I'm already on quota today so I can't post it.

    Straight out of the Hovis advert.

    https://x.com/Alamy_Editorial/status/1795770112886099977

    Cycle Chic it is not.
    https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-female-cyclist-and-children-riding-with-their-legs-outstretched-cycling-24963021.html

    WTF is he doing?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,418
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    ToryJim said:

    Another Labour candidate being possibly purged. IDS will be a happier man potentially.

    https://x.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1795879898491343314?s=61

    SKS is appearing to be a control freak. How does that reflect for his time in govt ?
    I doubt there is a universal consensus about the correct balance between seeking to control things versus being too uninvolved to the point of laziness.

    We shall soon find out.

    A funny outcome would be some of the more self confident shadow cabinet members not getting into the Cabinet proper, or dumped in as NI Secretary or something (important, to be sure, but not the position people would hope for), as Keir surprises them on the day.
    Yes, especially a few years into his first govt.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,478
    sbjme19 said:

    Taz said:

    ToryJim said:

    Another Labour candidate being possibly purged. IDS will be a happier man potentially.

    https://x.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1795879898491343314?s=61

    The other day she was posting the number one issue on the doorstep was Gaza.

    Last time labour put a lot,of resource into her seat as they thought she could win and she lost.

    SKS is appearing to be a control freak. How does that reflect for his time in govt ?
    I've wondered why IDS wasn't stepping down like so many other Tories when he was in a highly vulnerable position. Perhaps having experienced his opponent already he took the view there was still everything to play for.
    He's still cracking value on the consistency markets.

    I'm on at 11/2 where I'd probably have him 5/2 now
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,385
    HYUFD said:

    I know IDS is a faithful Roman Catholic but I don't think even he thought he could have been that lucky however many Hail Marys he said.

    If the official Labour candidate Fazia Shaheen (who also stood last time for Labour and has a big following in the left of Labour) has been suspended and stands as an Independent against whoever replaces her as Labour candidate IDS has just gone from a 1% chance of victory to a near 50% chance of victory even on current polls as the Labour vote in Chingford and Woodford Green would split in 2
    Bet 365 are currently still offering 11/2 on IDS retaining his seat, which would be worth an investment if you're right.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813

    MattW said:

    Have we done the latest Ed Davey photo op.

    He looks terrified, but I'm already on quota today so I can't post it.

    Straight out of the Hovis advert.

    https://x.com/Alamy_Editorial/status/1795770112886099977

    Cycle Chic it is not.
    https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-female-cyclist-and-children-riding-with-their-legs-outstretched-cycling-24963021.html

    WTF is he doing?
    Going downhill fast ! Like his campaign
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,770
    Leon said:

    *pokes head above parapet*

    *actually goes over the top*

    Thing is, Diane Abbott has a point. The fairly vile government of Israel (and its helpful friends abroad) - really does use accusations of anti-Semitism as a way of shielding itself from criticism. It is “a scam”, in a way

    At the same time, unfortunately, many of those who despise the Israeli government and its brutal and colonial occupation of Palestine ALSO tip over into obvious antisemitism where they mistrust or loathe all Jews

    It’s a unique antagonism in geopolitics where both sides seem positively eager to fulfil the dire characterisations made by their opponents

    Israel has only one option to any threats - strike early and strike hard. Anything is on the table.

    Israel has no interest whatsoever in antagonising anyone else because their one option is as above.

  • Faiza Shaheen is another nutter. Get rid.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    Leon said:

    I can report that having met 4 of them over dinner, Moldovans are really nice. Friendly. Sexy young women. Surprisingly good food. Excellent wine

    I love crappy little countries because they have to try really really hard. And they often succeed

    they have the best Eurovision songs - The one with the unicycle , massive pointy hats and a monocle at the end was magnificent . Still on Youtube to enjoy .
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    Roger said:

    They've just had an Orthodox Rabbi on Ch4 saying who has known Diane Abbott for many years and said there is nothing racist or anti semitic about her. He said "Starmer has no compassion. None at all".

    He's right. He's behaved like a little man scared to death of someone with a following and a notable history.

    Oh Roger. It sounds like you are happy to stay true to ideology, dispense with pragmatism and give the Tories another five years. Bless you!
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,855
    Labour have selected Paul Waugh to contest Rochdale, like they should have done at the by election.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127

    So, you know RLM, recently outrageously deselected? I assume that when he demanded the mandatory reselection of Labour MPs that the MPs he envisaged being removed by a partisan putsch were awful Blairite types?

    Do have to laugh…

    So in what universe does the membership should have complete freedom to pick their own candidates equal the membership should have no opportunity to pick their own candidates?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,035
    edited May 29
    Rishi with his super expensive backpack personalised with his own initials. He really doesn't help himself does he. Team Sunak are just shit at politics.

    We know he is super rich, either lean into it, use the jellycopter to get about. Otherwise, surely they could have just got him a £50 one for his PR stunt on the train.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    DM_Andy said:

    Roger said:

    They've just had an Orthodox Rabbi on Ch4 saying who has known Diane Abbott for many years and said there is nothing racist or anti semitic about her. He said "Starmer has no compassion. None at all".

    He's right. He's behaved like a little man scared to death of someone with a following and a notable history.

    I would defer to AlsoLei as they have more local knowledge but my understanding is the Charedi Jewish community are quite supportive of Corbyn and Abbott.
    As I understand it, it's a bit of a mix - but they're certainly not as straightforwardly anti-Corbynite as outsiders might expect. They're unlikely to get on as well with a bunch of bussed-in supporters who don't understand the nuances, though, which is why Abbott is stronger with the support of the local party than she is without it.

    (And they're not the only Jewish community in the seat, either, which complicates the picture further)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,478
    edited May 29
    Leon said:

    I can report that having met 4 of them over dinner, Moldovans are really nice. Friendly. Sexy young women. Surprisingly good food. Excellent wine

    I love crappy little countries because they have to try really really hard. And they often succeed

    There's a 27 year old (really bright) Moldovan woman I sometimes work with, at work, and the sexual energy is fucking incredible. All of what you describe.

    Obviously look but don't touch. Actually, don't even look.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    Omnium said:

    MattW said:

    Have we done the latest Ed Davey photo op.

    He looks terrified, but I'm already on quota today so I can't post it.

    Straight out of the Hovis advert.

    https://x.com/Alamy_Editorial/status/1795770112886099977

    Cycle Chic it is not.
    https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-female-cyclist-and-children-riding-with-their-legs-outstretched-cycling-24963021.html

    William Hague without the good points.
    Identical then?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,351
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    *pokes head above parapet*

    *actually goes over the top*

    Thing is, Diane Abbott has a point. The fairly vile government of Israel (and its helpful friends abroad) - really does use accusations of anti-Semitism as a way of shielding itself from criticism. It is “a scam”, in a way

    At the same time, unfortunately, many of those who despise the Israeli government and its brutal and colonial occupation of Palestine ALSO tip over into obvious antisemitism where they mistrust or loathe all Jews

    It’s a unique antagonism in geopolitics where both sides seem positively eager to fulfil the dire characterisations made by their opponents

    Israel has only one option to any threats - strike early and strike hard. Anything is on the table.

    Israel has no interest whatsoever in antagonising anyone else because their one option is as above.

    I’ve been to Israel many times. I’ve watched in horror as it has morphed into a slightly fascist
    apartheid state, suffused with anti Arab racism. This racism is now found at the top of the Israeli government

    And yet of course it is understandable. Israel is surrounded by vastly bigger nations that vaguely want it destroyed, and it is occupying a “nation” of 3m people - Palestine - that is definitely hell bent on driving all Jews into the sea

    It’s a negative death spiral of polarised hate. I have no idea how the descent can be stopped. Probably it will only stop when one side entirely vanquishes the other
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,099
    rcs1000 said:

    DM_Andy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
    Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
    No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
    You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

    Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
    If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
    Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.

    I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
  • Clutch_BromptonClutch_Brompton Posts: 737

    Diane is standing, 'by whatever means possible' 'I will not be intimidated'
    Fight is on

    It will be a very one-sided fight
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,286
    Vorders on her plan to eviscerate the Conservative Party

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1PWziyKPvQ
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,478
    This might be the best thing ever posted on Twitter. Of all time.

    Ever wanted to see a Back To The Future Part III/Terminator 2 mash-up?

    https://x.com/petersciretta/status/1795216151594537262?s=48&t=6qwB6_H9_bgiL3zopb7X8w
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,035
    edited May 29
    Watch dealer should not have been alone, company says

    He was found dead at his home in Shepperton, Surrey, in non-suspicious circumstances the following day.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd11lne4wzro

    Its a very sad story, but why does reading a BBC article these days feel like I need a translator to understand what they mean but won't say. The guy killed himself. His family have said so.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,035
    edited May 29
    GIN1138 said:

    Vorders on her plan to eviscerate the Conservative Party

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1PWziyKPvQ

    Oh god talking about social media nutters...I thought she had the inside track that Sunak was getting ousted by Cameron for the GE....
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127

    rcs1000 said:

    DM_Andy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
    Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
    No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
    You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

    Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
    If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
    Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.

    I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
    Exactly, and if I didn't know that then I might have taken at face value Sandpit's assertion that Carl Benjamin was now a moderate, mainstream centre-right political analyst.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    GIN1138 said:

    Vorders on her plan to eviscerate the Conservative Party

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1PWziyKPvQ

    Oh god talking about social media nutters...I thought she had the inside track that Sunak was getting ousted by Cameron for the GE....
    She told me I could consolidate all my debts into one easy payment.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,770
    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    *pokes head above parapet*

    *actually goes over the top*

    Thing is, Diane Abbott has a point. The fairly vile government of Israel (and its helpful friends abroad) - really does use accusations of anti-Semitism as a way of shielding itself from criticism. It is “a scam”, in a way

    At the same time, unfortunately, many of those who despise the Israeli government and its brutal and colonial occupation of Palestine ALSO tip over into obvious antisemitism where they mistrust or loathe all Jews

    It’s a unique antagonism in geopolitics where both sides seem positively eager to fulfil the dire characterisations made by their opponents

    Israel has only one option to any threats - strike early and strike hard. Anything is on the table.

    Israel has no interest whatsoever in antagonising anyone else because their one option is as above.

    I’ve been to Israel many times. I’ve watched in horror as it has morphed into a slightly fascist
    apartheid state, suffused with anti Arab racism. This racism is now found at the top of the Israeli government

    And yet of course it is understandable. Israel is surrounded by vastly bigger nations that vaguely want it destroyed, and it is occupying a “nation” of 3m people - Palestine - that is definitely hell bent on driving all Jews into the sea

    It’s a negative death spiral of polarised hate. I have no idea how the descent can be stopped. Probably it will only stop when one side entirely vanquishes the other
    I, on the other hand. find Israel to be a wonderful place, full of the warmth of humanity. Jerusalem for example is an astonishingly scary place - it's all, as a city, simply horrible. Amongst the ruins of ideals though there are the everyday people that are as wonderful and vibrant as one could wish.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,418

    Labour have selected Paul Waugh to contest Rochdale, like they should have done at the by election.

    Well that’s a shock !

    Imposed rather than selected.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,035
    Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,418
    GIN1138 said:

    Vorders on her plan to eviscerate the Conservative Party

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1PWziyKPvQ

    Hey @northern_monkey , Kleenex time
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,867
    ..

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,385
    edited May 29
    Just to correct the record, and to be fair to Faiza Shaheen. What she actually said is that Gaza is the biggest issue on the doorstep and in her emails. I wouldn't be surprised at all if her inbox was absolutely full of people complaining to her about Gaza more than any other issue, though I'm less convinced about the 'on the doorstep' thing. But if she's combining both, it may be fair comment.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,035

    GIN1138 said:

    Vorders on her plan to eviscerate the Conservative Party

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1PWziyKPvQ

    Oh god talking about social media nutters...I thought she had the inside track that Sunak was getting ousted by Cameron for the GE....
    She told me I could consolidate all my debts into one easy payment.
    The thing is it is dead easy to criticise the Tories without going down the Steve Bray rabbit hole. You look bonkers if you keep making these wild false claims and posting weird rumours.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,351

    rcs1000 said:

    DM_Andy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
    Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
    No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
    You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

    Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
    If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
    Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.

    I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
    You still firmly believe the novel bat coronavirus with weird pathogenic-to-human evolutions came from a bat soup at a wet market which has never sold bat soup; you believe this religiously despite the striking fact that there was a notoriously unsafe virology lab 300 yards away from the market, a lab which was, uniquely in the world, explicitly engineering novel bat coronaviruses to make them more pathogenic to humans

    To put it politely, you’re a fucking idiot
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104

    Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.

    I don't fully buy the idea she is just positioning for her lengthy post premiership career. Maybe her ousting cracked her and she really is now fully bought in to the deep state reptillians or whatever the latest idea is.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,385
    IanB2 said:

    ..

    Dog camouflaged as rock?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667

    Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.

    Infamy! Infamy! They've all got in for me!
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    Farooq said:

    ToryJim said:

    Starmer not the only lefty doing purges. Greens have booted out their former London mayoral candidate.

    https://x.com/darrenjohnson66/status/1795504603259085265?s=61

    at one point the Greens had two leaders because they presumably wanted a few different view points - how things change - The greens seems to have turned into the most extreme party - which might not be so bad if it was about environmental policies but that seems boring to them now when they can play in Middle East politics and take on board anything Stonewall comes out with
    The two Green Parties each have two leaders now.
    And why do you seem to think it's wrong for the Greens to have a policy on the Middle East? Most parties do.
    Three! However, the GPNI has a single leader & deputy: https://www.greenpartyni.org/party_leadership
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Rishi with his super expensive backpack personalised with his own initials. He really doesn't help himself does he. Team Sunak are just shit at politics.

    We know he is super rich, either lean into it, use the jellycopter to get about. Otherwise, surely they could have just got him a £50 one for his PR stunt on the train.

    I’m sure if he had been pictured with a £50 rucksack then everyone would have been giving him grief about using a prop that he would never actually own rather than the sort of backpack a billionaire chooses these days and so he was being fake.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Thread:

    EXCLUSIVE: in one of the final actions of Parliament, just before dissolution, the Government had legislated to ban private prescriptions (originating in UK or abroad) of puberty blockers for under 18s. NHS prescriptions will be restricted - legally - to official trials.

    https://x.com/hannahsbee/status/1795870383444242828?

    Lasts 3 months needs consultation to be permanent - will be interesting to see what Labour do.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    GIN1138 said:

    Vorders on her plan to eviscerate the Conservative Party

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1PWziyKPvQ

    Oh god talking about social media nutters...I thought she had the inside track that Sunak was getting ousted by Cameron for the GE....
    She told me I could consolidate all my debts into one easy payment.
    The thing is it is dead easy to criticise the Tories without going down the Steve Bray rabbit hole. You look bonkers if you keep making these wild false claims and posting weird rumours.
    She's just plain weird.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,385
    edited May 29

    Watch dealer should not have been alone, company says

    He was found dead at his home in Shepperton, Surrey, in non-suspicious circumstances the following day.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd11lne4wzro

    Its a very sad story, but why does reading a BBC article these days feel like I need a translator to understand what they mean but won't say. The guy killed himself. His family have said so.

    Probably because the BBC (or any other media) can't report a death as suicide until and unless a Coroner has delivered that verdict.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,351
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    *pokes head above parapet*

    *actually goes over the top*

    Thing is, Diane Abbott has a point. The fairly vile government of Israel (and its helpful friends abroad) - really does use accusations of anti-Semitism as a way of shielding itself from criticism. It is “a scam”, in a way

    At the same time, unfortunately, many of those who despise the Israeli government and its brutal and colonial occupation of Palestine ALSO tip over into obvious antisemitism where they mistrust or loathe all Jews

    It’s a unique antagonism in geopolitics where both sides seem positively eager to fulfil the dire characterisations made by their opponents

    Israel has only one option to any threats - strike early and strike hard. Anything is on the table.

    Israel has no interest whatsoever in antagonising anyone else because their one option is as above.

    I’ve been to Israel many times. I’ve watched in horror as it has morphed into a slightly fascist
    apartheid state, suffused with anti Arab racism. This racism is now found at the top of the Israeli government

    And yet of course it is understandable. Israel is surrounded by vastly bigger nations that vaguely want it destroyed, and it is occupying a “nation” of 3m people - Palestine - that is definitely hell bent on driving all Jews into the sea

    It’s a negative death spiral of polarised hate. I have no idea how the descent can be stopped. Probably it will only stop when one side entirely vanquishes the other
    I, on the other hand. find Israel to be a wonderful place, full of the warmth of humanity. Jerusalem for example is an astonishingly scary place - it's all, as a city, simply horrible. Amongst the ruins of ideals though there are the everyday people that are as wonderful and vibrant as one could wish.
    I too have met many wonderful Israelis. And quite a few rude and unpleasant ones

    But you’re carefully avoiding my argument. Anti-Arab racism has suffused Israeli society, and can now be found at the top of the Israeli government

    Yes it is explicable, even understandable, given Israel’s position. But it is also quite horrible to witness

    Tragically, exactly the same radicalisation can be found on the Palestinian side. Hamas is popular, the moderates are not

    As I say, maybe the only solution is all out war. Finish it once and for all, either way, peace now seems impossible
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,373

    Sean_F said:

    Dianne Abbott is an anti-Semite. But she should have been allowed to retire in peace.

    Apparently according to Pesto she was already to go quietly until someone leaked to the Times that she had been binned by the party. Then she decided she wanted to go on her own terms or not go at all. She sounds very precious.

    I don't find Abbott to be the national treasure that PB Tories consider her to be.
    Diane Abbott is both a kind-hearted woman
    (to which I can personally attest), and a somewhat flawed politician. People are complicated.
    She's all yours. Would you vote for her? I wouldn't.
    I would not.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728

    Andy_JS said:

    We have a developing situation in Brighton Kemptown.

    https://x.com/patrickkmaguire/status/1795862063480234472

    "@patrickkmaguire
    EXC: Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle has told local activists he has been suspended by the party"

    Has any reason been given?
    Some allegation that is 8 years old and has conveniently just dropped into the laps of the "lets deselect the loonies" committee.

    If they are purging various other hard left members then truly Starmer is all in on changing the party.

    I utterly detested the hard left, for so many reasons. But I do not think people should be denied the opportunity to vote for them. Which beggars the question - why is the hard left so disorganised that it hadn't founded a new party?

    Galloway formed the Galloway Cult Workers Party , won a seat and has multiple candidates running. Momentum have been around far longer, as has the Peace and Justice Project, with the Owen Jones / Novara / Momentum group all homeless.

    So why didn't they act? Too late now - unless they join the Galloway Cult.
    Because they don't agree on an awful lot? One reason Corbynism was called a 'cult' was that a lot of it was centred on one man and his supposed benevolence. That brought together people who didn't actually agree on a lot but liked the idea of a cuddly socialist who told them what they wanted to hear.

    It was a rare phenomenon in decades of infighting. Contained its own contradictions that brought its own downfall, but still.

    Now you find that Galloway's creeps don't like the spotty SOAS types who can recite every argument between Marxists in deliberately impenetrable language. Who in turn look down on the rainbow rhythms 'inclusivity' gang and those who are happy in The Greens. Who themselves think those who are just on the left of Labour but quite like party structures and are more concerned about issue x or y than tearing it all down are sellouts. That's before we get to different communities with separate priorities.

    They all liked the idea of a Corbyn government, seeing in it what they wanted to see. Damned if they can agree on what comes next without that. Even the man himself would struggle to hold together the 'movement' now its marginalised.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104

    Watch dealer should not have been alone, company says

    He was found dead at his home in Shepperton, Surrey, in non-suspicious circumstances the following day.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd11lne4wzro

    Its a very sad story, but why does reading a BBC article these days feel like I need a translator to understand what they mean but won't say. The guy killed himself. His family have said so.

    Probably because the BBC (or any other media) can't report a death as suicide until and unless a Coroner has delivered that verdict.
    I'm sure it would be possible to be clearer on the likely situation without stating defintively ahead of any coroner verdict if they wanted to be. It could be general editorial policy, like being vague if someone says something offensive so it is not always clear what someone said and thus how bad it actually was.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,845
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.

    I don't fully buy the idea she is just positioning for her lengthy post premiership career. Maybe her ousting cracked her and she really is now fully bought in to the deep state reptillians or whatever the latest idea is.
    She was already mental long before she became PM
    And still the members chose her over Sunak. I mean, wow, this party needs some serious work. Opposition is going to be long and bloody.
  • Clutch_BromptonClutch_Brompton Posts: 737
    boulay said:

    Rishi with his super expensive backpack personalised with his own initials. He really doesn't help himself does he. Team Sunak are just shit at politics.

    We know he is super rich, either lean into it, use the jellycopter to get about. Otherwise, surely they could have just got him a £50 one for his PR stunt on the train.

    I’m sure if he had been pictured with a £50 rucksack then everyone would have been giving him grief about using a prop that he would never actually own rather than the sort of backpack a billionaire chooses these days and so he was being fake.
    You are exactly right. It doesn't matter what he says or does. He had 18 months before the campaign tio make an impression with the British public and he certainly did so. The number willing to listen now or give him an even break is somewhat limited. Even the most popular policies couldn't cut through association with two toxic brands - the party and the leader. That's where we are.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,462
    theProle said:

    I saw some posts this morning about the cost of electricity, and some people were trying to tell us that net zero was going to make electricity cheaper.

    Co-incidentally, I spent a chunk of this afternoon trying to sort out the electricity contract for work this afternoon. Business electricity is not subject to price caps, so reflects the real costs (unlike domestic pricing). Our site uses about 92,000kwh a year. The electric unit price is similar to current domestic pricing - we're being offered day rates of about 23p/unit. However the standing charge for our site has gone from about £5/a day 5 years ago, and £20/day two years ago to £29/day now.
    By the time you add the various other charges (eg 11p/kva capacity per day), the full cost for our site is about 35p/unit.

    Where is all this extra money going one might ask? Basically businesses like us are funding all the net zero infrastructure costs.

    I did the rough sums, if we bought a big diesel generator, binned off our electric connection and went "off-grid", we would save about £5k a year. Generating electricity with a piston engined diesel generator is a terribly inefficient way of producing electricity - if that's cheaper than supplying fairly large amounts of it to one physical location via an existing grid connection, whoever's running the grid have got it very, very wrong.

    Now it may be that net zero is worth this expense; that's a political question, although dumping the costs on industry in such a way as to destroy our industrial base seems a particularly dumb way to fund it. But anybody who tells you renewable energy is cheap (i.e. our whole political class) is lying to you. Whilst the sun and wind are free, unfortunately the infrastructure to collect this "free" energy is very expensive.

    An excellent post, and one that @BartholomewRoberts should read carefully before claiming to be a supporter both of the current direction of travel in the energy market and of free market principles.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Neil Parish has been very visible lately. I wonder if the old tractor tugger is being stuck in somewhere?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,035
    edited May 29
    boulay said:

    Rishi with his super expensive backpack personalised with his own initials. He really doesn't help himself does he. Team Sunak are just shit at politics.

    We know he is super rich, either lean into it, use the jellycopter to get about. Otherwise, surely they could have just got him a £50 one for his PR stunt on the train.

    I’m sure if he had been pictured with a £50 rucksack then everyone would have been giving him grief about using a prop that he would never actually own rather than the sort of backpack a billionaire chooses these days and so he was being fake.
    That is why it is much better to be genuine and lean into it. There is a good story to tell of how his parents worked really hard, he clearly worked hard, and got success. He could push the narrative of wanting more people to have these opportunities e.g. insert obvious policy of post A-level result for uni, then we judge people fairly, more money / loan forgiveness for STEM, for medicine, degrees etc.

    It is a better story than Cameron and Osborne who were never successful before politics and rich because of their families who were multi-generational wealthy.
  • rfryrfry Posts: 4

    boulay said:

    Rishi with his super expensive backpack personalised with his own initials. He really doesn't help himself does he. Team Sunak are just shit at politics.

    We know he is super rich, either lean into it, use the jellycopter to get about. Otherwise, surely they could have just got him a £50 one for his PR stunt on the train.

    I’m sure if he had been pictured with a £50 rucksack then everyone would have been giving him grief about using a prop that he would never actually own rather than the sort of backpack a billionaire chooses these days and so he was being fake.
    You are exactly right. It doesn't matter what he says or does. He had 18 months before the campaign tio make an impression with the British public and he certainly did so. The number willing to listen now or give him an even break is somewhat limited. Even the most popular policies couldn't cut through association with two toxic brands - the party and the leader. That's where we are.
    Tories polling at 8% in the latest yougov in the under 50s. Existential here for them.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    kle4 said:

    Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.

    I don't fully buy the idea she is just positioning for her lengthy post premiership career. Maybe her ousting cracked her and she really is now fully bought in to the deep state reptillians or whatever the latest idea is.
    She was cracked long before she was booted from the job she never should have had.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,373
    Credit where it’s due. Sacking LRM is excellent, one of the nastiest of MP’s.
  • SKS is a ruthless bastard. He is purging the hard left and making sure only Blairites or Starmerites will run the party in the future.

    Jezza should have tried it whilst he was leader.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,373
    DM_Andy said:

    MikeL said:

    Would all these people improve their chances if they stood together under a united banner?

    Corbyn
    Abbott
    Shaheen
    Russell-Moyle
    Begum

    Not sure they would want to join with Galloway?

    But even if they don't join Galloway there are now potentially enough of them to have some critical mass.

    And who knows, more may join them - whether kicked out or even voluntarily - eg McDonnell?

    Corbyn and Abbott wouldn't join Galloway imo (he has pledged to support them as indies though), Begum, Shaheen possibly, Brussels Boiled not sure
    Why would LRM join up with George "I don't want my children to be taught that gay relationships are normal" Galloway?

    Queers for Palestine.
  • rfryrfry Posts: 4
    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    *pokes head above parapet*

    *actually goes over the top*

    Thing is, Diane Abbott has a point. The fairly vile government of Israel (and its helpful friends abroad) - really does use accusations of anti-Semitism as a way of shielding itself from criticism. It is “a scam”, in a way

    At the same time, unfortunately, many of those who despise the Israeli government and its brutal and colonial occupation of Palestine ALSO tip over into obvious antisemitism where they mistrust or loathe all Jews

    It’s a unique antagonism in geopolitics where both sides seem positively eager to fulfil the dire characterisations made by their opponents

    Israel has only one option to any threats - strike early and strike hard. Anything is on the table.

    Israel has no interest whatsoever in antagonising anyone else because their one option is as above.

    I’ve been to Israel many times. I’ve watched in horror as it has morphed into a slightly fascist
    apartheid state, suffused with anti Arab racism. This racism is now found at the top of the Israeli government

    And yet of course it is understandable. Israel is surrounded by vastly bigger nations that vaguely want it destroyed, and it is occupying a “nation” of 3m people - Palestine - that is definitely hell bent on driving all Jews into the sea

    It’s a negative death spiral of polarised hate. I have no idea how the descent can be stopped. Probably it will only stop when one side entirely vanquishes the other
    I, on the other hand. find Israel to be a wonderful place, full of the warmth of humanity. Jerusalem for example is an astonishingly scary place - it's all, as a city, simply horrible. Amongst the ruins of ideals though there are the everyday people that are as wonderful and vibrant as one could wish.
    I too have met many wonderful Israelis. And quite a few rude and unpleasant ones

    But you’re carefully avoiding my argument. Anti-Arab racism has suffused Israeli society, and can now be found at the top of the Israeli government

    Yes it is explicable, even understandable, given Israel’s position. But it is also quite horrible to witness

    Tragically, exactly the same radicalisation can be found on the Palestinian side. Hamas is popular, the moderates are not

    As I say, maybe the only solution is all out war. Finish it once and for all, either way, peace now seems impossible
    AIPAC and the Israel lobby in the USA are immensely powerful which means the US has consistently gone easy on Israel in a way it likely wouldnt for other countries.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,035
    edited May 29

    Watch dealer should not have been alone, company says

    He was found dead at his home in Shepperton, Surrey, in non-suspicious circumstances the following day.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd11lne4wzro

    Its a very sad story, but why does reading a BBC article these days feel like I need a translator to understand what they mean but won't say. The guy killed himself. His family have said so.

    Probably because the BBC (or any other media) can't report a death as suicide until and unless a Coroner has delivered that verdict.
    Basically every other mainstream media has reported it as such,

    Watch dealer took his own life after being attacked and robbed
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/watch-dealer-dead-cctv-robbery-jewellery-shop-london-news-h7l8g7fsw

    Watch dealer Oliver White took his own life after ‘anguish and distress’ of robbery, says family
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/richmond-jewellery-robbery-met-police-b2553081.html

    Because the family have come out and said so.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,182

    Chortle. Not as advertised.

    "Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.

    The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”

    This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/29/labour-new-business-elite-reeves-starmer/

    On a serious note, I am trying to remember a stat I heard the other day, but basically the UK has very few middle sized firms anymore (and this has been true from before Brexit). People are either working for absolutely giant multi-nationals or very small businesses with a couple of handfuls of people. And of the firms with a few 100/1000, many are really just subsidiaries of one group.

    I don't know if that is unique to the UK, or if that is just globalisation for you. If its the former, is this another problem in the economy that companies are finding it impossible to grow out of that very small business.
    That is very British. Germany - by contrast - is full of middle sized firms.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Isn't Angela Rayner a stepmom?

    Just saying...

    StepMUM. She isn't American!
    Ah, I thought "Stepmum" was the term you used for people who... aren't in videos. While "Stepmom" is for... performers.
    Cookie clearly leads an exemplary life of proper innocence, and knows naught of the filth you freelt reference?

    PB monitors MUST spend MANY hours monitoring such filth, in order to properly protect vulnerable PBers!
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,418
    DM_Andy said:

    Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.

    They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy
  • Taz said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.

    They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy
    Always go where the campaigns and the policies go. This is, "try and get to 30% of the vote", AKA the Ed Miliband strategy.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,035
    edited May 29
    rcs1000 said:

    Chortle. Not as advertised.

    "Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.

    The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”

    This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/29/labour-new-business-elite-reeves-starmer/

    On a serious note, I am trying to remember a stat I heard the other day, but basically the UK has very few middle sized firms anymore (and this has been true from before Brexit). People are either working for absolutely giant multi-nationals or very small businesses with a couple of handfuls of people. And of the firms with a few 100/1000, many are really just subsidiaries of one group.

    I don't know if that is unique to the UK, or if that is just globalisation for you. If its the former, is this another problem in the economy that companies are finding it impossible to grow out of that very small business.
    That is very British. Germany - by contrast - is full of middle sized firms.
    I thought that might be the case. Again, while politicians are arguing over bollocks, this stuff is actually important. Why is this the case, how do we change it...It not good for the balance of the economy long term to be so imbalanced.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,351
    rcs1000 said:

    Chortle. Not as advertised.

    "Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.

    The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”

    This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/29/labour-new-business-elite-reeves-starmer/

    Personally, I would rather that Labour was in the pocket of small business than big business.
    Also, Tom Kerridge is very popular. Marks and Sparks use him for a reason. He’s personable and matey and comes across as everyman (while being quietly but hugely talented, and bright). So this business figure dissing him is simply a twat; it’s a coup for Labour if they’ve got Tom Kerridge on board

    Who have the Tories got? The chairman of Thames Water?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,182

    MattW said:

    Have we done the latest Ed Davey photo op.

    He looks terrified, but I'm already on quota today so I can't post it.

    Straight out of the Hovis advert.

    https://x.com/Alamy_Editorial/status/1795770112886099977

    Cycle Chic it is not.
    https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-female-cyclist-and-children-riding-with-their-legs-outstretched-cycling-24963021.html

    WTF is he doing?
    Successfully reminding people that the LibDems exist.

    Now, obviously beyond a certain point, this is a losing tactic. But I think it is a better one, for now, than the "prepare for government" approach of his predecessor.
  • rfryrfry Posts: 4
    Taz said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.

    They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy
    There is a chance a very small chance mind that Sunak could lose his own seat. Latest polls in Richmond put him only 4% up there.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,478
    rcs1000 said:

    Chortle. Not as advertised.

    "Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.

    The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”

    This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/29/labour-new-business-elite-reeves-starmer/

    Personally, I would rather that Labour was in the pocket of small business than big business.
    You could probably find a few dozen small business owners to back any party.

    And Jimmy Wales and a celebrity chef is pretty desperate.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,855
    GREAT POLLING NEWS FOR THE TORIES oh no wait

    https://x.com/Savanta_UK/status/1795885318937170138
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Taz said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.

    They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy
    I mean that's been blindingly obvious since Natty Serves. 30 - 33% strategy
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,462
    edited May 29
    DavidL said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.

    I don't fully buy the idea she is just positioning for her lengthy post premiership career. Maybe her ousting cracked her and she really is now fully bought in to the deep state reptillians or whatever the latest idea is.
    She was already mental long before she became PM
    And still the members chose her over Sunak. I mean, wow, this party needs some serious work. Opposition is going to be long and bloody.
    I love how you're still trying to push the idea that they made the wrong decision, even in the throes of his disastrous unforced election. Tory members have been thoroughly vindicated in their decision and they deserve an apology. The loons are the ones who supported and continue to defend the useless article. The man could come and shit in your morning Alpen and you'd still try and claim it would have all worked out if only the awful party had elected him earlier.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,478
    rcs1000 said:

    MattW said:

    Have we done the latest Ed Davey photo op.

    He looks terrified, but I'm already on quota today so I can't post it.

    Straight out of the Hovis advert.

    https://x.com/Alamy_Editorial/status/1795770112886099977

    Cycle Chic it is not.
    https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-female-cyclist-and-children-riding-with-their-legs-outstretched-cycling-24963021.html

    WTF is he doing?
    Successfully reminding people that the LibDems exist.

    Now, obviously beyond a certain point, this is a losing tactic. But I think it is a better one, for now, than the "prepare for government" approach of his predecessor.
    Maybe he could light his own farts next.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,035
    edited May 29
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Chortle. Not as advertised.

    "Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.

    The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”

    This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/29/labour-new-business-elite-reeves-starmer/

    Personally, I would rather that Labour was in the pocket of small business than big business.
    Also, Tom Kerridge is very popular. Marks and Sparks use him for a reason. He’s personable and matey and comes across as everyman (while being quietly but hugely talented, and bright). So this business figure dissing him is simply a twat; it’s a coup for Labour if they’ve got Tom Kerridge on board

    Who have the Tories got? The chairman of Thames Water?
    Not being able to get a curent single boss of the top 250 companies in the UK isn't a look great. Not if you are boasting to the public look we have business on our side now. And then from small business you manage to get just over 100, of which a chunk aren't even in business anymore or have British companies.

    As I say every time, these letter writing campaigns are always bollocks anyway.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Chortle. Not as advertised.

    "Nor was there a single boss to be found from the FTSE 250, the second-tier of listed UK stocks that is far more representative of the British economy that Labour claims it will be a responsible steward of.

    The majority of the signatories were small businesses, with 72 of the 121 boasting 50 employees or less. One was an ice cream parlour based in Surrey. There were also representatives from four trade associations, a diversity consultant, and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. As for celebrity chef Tom Kerridge, one business figure asked: “Who cares what he thinks?”

    This is the result of years of lobbying so clearly nobody likes what they’re hearing,” a senior City source told The Telegraph. “That should be a big concern for Labour.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/29/labour-new-business-elite-reeves-starmer/

    Personally, I would rather that Labour was in the pocket of small business than big business.
    Also, Tom Kerridge is very popular. Marks and Sparks use him for a reason. He’s personable and matey and comes across as everyman (while being quietly but hugely talented, and bright). So this business figure dissing him is simply a twat; it’s a coup for Labour if they’ve got Tom Kerridge on board

    Who have the Tories got? The chairman of Thames Water?
    Yep. Who cares what Tom Kerridge thinks? Er, me.

    Who cares what some anon 'business figure' thinks? Just about no one.
  • DeclanFDeclanF Posts: 42

    Thread:

    EXCLUSIVE: in one of the final actions of Parliament, just before dissolution, the Government had legislated to ban private prescriptions (originating in UK or abroad) of puberty blockers for under 18s. NHS prescriptions will be restricted - legally - to official trials.

    https://x.com/hannahsbee/status/1795870383444242828?

    Lasts 3 months needs consultation to be permanent - will be interesting to see what Labour do.

    The relevant judgment is here - https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Approved-Judgment-Re-J-1-May-2024.pdf.

    A very sad case. The conduct of the doctor is shocking and the warning given by the President of the Family Division highly unusual and deeply troubling. Labour would be wise to take heed of it.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,806
    The purge of the Labour Left disappoints me. Not because I really support their positions, but because I believe the party needs to tolerate a range of views. Abbott in particular has not deserved the treatment she has been given.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,182

    rcs1000 said:

    DM_Andy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Jess Phillips calls for Truss to be deselected.

    https://x.com/jessphillips/status/1795744506664689920

    File under "who gives a shit"
    Voters who don’t think someone should lose their job for appearing on a podcast of someone whom others find objectionable. They give a sh!t.

    Jess Philips, the queen of cancel culture, and a great example of the attitude a Labour government will have towards freedom of speech.

    It seems pretty reasonable to me that Jess Phillips should have strong opinions about a senior politician who hangs out with someone who has repeatedly talked about raping her.

    From the quote in the latter, it appears that the gentleman in question was talking about not raping her.
    I'll quote the double down.
    “There’s been an awful lot of talk about whether I would or wouldn’t rape Jess Phillips. I suppose with enough pressure I might cave, but let’s be honest nobody’s got that much beer.”

    And really if anyone's going to be talking about attractiveness, it's not like Carl Benjamin is an Adonis.

    It’s a joke, not a rape threat. That was my point. Perhaps in poor taste, but a joke nonetheless.

    Also, as I suspected, the quotes were from several years ago and not recent. https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ukip-mep-candidate-says-carl-benjamin-jokes-about-raping-mp-jess-philips-were-risque-155248927.html

    Truss is out to get Reform supporters voting Conservitive in the “Red Wall” seats, so why wouldn’t she appear on a podcast with 400k Youtube subscribers? It’s only the left who have this obsession with “sharing a platform”.
    By all means Truss is free to share a platform with various alt-right figures who joke about raping MPs.

    And we are free to form an opinion of what kind of person that makes her.
    The quotes where from 2018, and as I said above, 2018 “Sargon of Akkad” is a very different person from 2022 Carl Benjamin, who’s no more controversial today than GB News, and has 400k followers on Youtube.

    Should people not be allowed to be rehabilitated into society?
    From Wikipedia: “In February 2020, Benjamin launched the group Hearts of Oak with British far-right activist Tommy Robinson”.

    The Hearts of Oak website still includes him: https://heartsofoak.org/guests/carl-benjamin/

    Here he is a few months ago at a Hearts of Oak event with another conspiracy theorist, Andrew Bridgen: https://youtu.be/SsRayGgi_4Y

    Why, Sandpit, are you watching the output of far right conspiracy theorists?
    I listen to his videos sometimes, usually at double speed because he takes forever to get to his point. That's why I know that Carl now is the same guy as Carl in 2019. I listen to The Quartering and Knights Watch too but mainly for unintended entertainment.
    Why? Do you agree with Tommy Robinson and Andrew Bridgen as well?
    No but I don't think that jamming my fingers into my ears helps my understanding of the world. Speaking of Bridgen, there is a funny one on Bridgen and his list of 'world experts' https://youtu.be/U1mHK7gBryM
    You yourself said that “180 hours of video is uploaded to YouTube every minute.” But you have gone out of your way to listen to his videos. That’s not not jamming your fingers in your ears.

    Unless you are specifically doing a study of far right social media figures, I do not understand what you get out of listening to far right conspiracy theorists.
    If you want to understand why people think a certain way, it helps to understand them, don't you think?
    Yes, it does. I have found, personally, that it doesn’t take very long to get the measure of far right conspiracy theorists, and they’re all much of a muchness. I’ve also found that you don’t need to wade through the sewage they spew to understand them: you can read the analysis of those who have done that previously. It’s quicker and less unpleasant.

    I have, however, for the purposes of research on this topic, just listened to a very recent 11-minute video by Carl Benjamin on Twitter where he outlines his political agenda. It’s full of talk of people of “foreign stock”, and the value of “traditional roles” for men and women. He explains how, “An evil will has taken control of the educational system”. His Twitter feed also had lots of retweets of Tommy Robinson as they’re at an event in London together in a few days time. It all confirms to me that he is a far right conspiracy theorist.
    So, you did indeed benefit from watching it, as you are now rather better informed. (Of his views, obviously.)

    I'm glad we've cleared that up.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,099

    DavidL said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.

    I don't fully buy the idea she is just positioning for her lengthy post premiership career. Maybe her ousting cracked her and she really is now fully bought in to the deep state reptillians or whatever the latest idea is.
    She was already mental long before she became PM
    And still the members chose her over Sunak. I mean, wow, this party needs some serious work. Opposition is going to be long and bloody.
    I love how you're still trying to push the idea that they made the wrong decision, even in the throes of his disastrous unforced election. Tory members have been thoroughly vindicated in their decision and they deserve an apology. The loons are the ones who supported and continue to defend the useless article. The man could come and shit in your morning Alpen and you'd still try and claim it would have all worked out if only the awful party had elected him earlier.
    Yeah, Sunak’s not good, but are you arguing Truss was better? Truss who is going full-on deep state conspired against her?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,409
    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Truss interview on Triggernometry the other week was a tad Trump, all deep state stopping anything from ever happening, the market crash was the BoE playing silly buggers, etc.

    I don't fully buy the idea she is just positioning for her lengthy post premiership career. Maybe her ousting cracked her and she really is now fully bought in to the deep state reptillians or whatever the latest idea is.
    She was already mental long before she became PM
    And still the members chose her over Sunak. I mean, wow, this party needs some serious work. Opposition is going to be long and bloody.
    That depends on who is left standing. If it's a sensible faction in a good position of power, it might get sorted. If it's all nutters or a close split, it could be like the Chinese civil war.
    I have no idea in whose hands the preponderance of safe seats lies. I simply daren't look into it.

    Edit: I know the membership is still a problem. But they might not factor much into it is two sensible candidates are offered to them.
    Will there be two sensible MP's left to facilitate that?
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 993
    Taz said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sunak campaigning in Honiton and Sidmouth today. Even the Electoral Calculus forecast of a Labour majority of 308 still has the Tories keeping H&S by 3%. This is a base vote strategy on stilts.

    They know the game is up. You’re right. Base vote strategy
    Yesterday he was in Hinckley and Bosworth which though on paper looks safe for the Tories is likely to be a Lib Dem gain.
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