Quite like the national tea time idea. And it would really wind up the Nats.
I think it would wind up anybody wanting to interact with any service at 4pm.
"Hello. This is 999. Your call is important to us. We are currently drinking tea and will resume taking calls in. TWELVE. minutes. If you are bleeding from an aorta, please direct the blood flow away from your telephone headset so your call doesn't get accidentally cut off." [Musak version of Rolling Stone Let It Bleed plays]
The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
My 2 favourite cakes. You've got my vote.
Lemon drizzle instead of coffee and walnut and I'm all for it.
Don't purdah rules preclude civil servants from taking politically sensitive actions during the campaign?
It would be mad if that applied to prosecutors. Taking to its absurd extreme, if a member of the cabinet was suspected of being a serial killer during a campaign, the idea that the prosecution should hold off charging until the election would be a little dangerous.
I don’t know the history in Scotland but the Met Police used to instruct solicitors and attorneys (there were such things in England back then) in private practice to draw up indictments. They took the work in house eventually before it was spun out again to the CPS in the 80s. So the work itself, down here anyway, is not historically civil service work.
Not "historically" sure. But it is now - calling yourself the Crown Office is a pretty balls out admission of civil service status by the sound of it.
You can arrest your serial killer but hold off charging him till after polling day
Ironic that sks got his first big break by turning charging decision announcements into showbiz. Always despised him for that
You can’t keep someone locked up for 6 weeks without charging them! You’d have to let the serial killer back out.
The duty imposed on what is now the COPFS is not to disclose material that might prejudice the investigation or the prospects of a fair trial. So you won't get public statements about someone being charged that contain more than the very basic material of the age of the person charged and the charge they are facing. They will not disclose, for example, any of the evidence that formed the basis of that charge.
Nicola, and other SNP politicians, have already been hiding behind an ongoing police investigation for more than 2 years.
Unless they are innocent, in which case they have been pilloried on PB and elsewhere for more than two years, unable to defend themselves.
A blind man can see the truth and it did not take 3 years to work it out. The money is gone and only a very few had access or could see the transactions.
SNP being skint is going to be a factor this election surely?
They used to send a van round the estates with a megaphone. Everyone would take the opportunity to cut the grass.
“I am convinced that ‘Parmatma’ (God) sent me for a purpose. Once the purpose is achieved, my work will be one done. This is why I have completely dedicated myself to God."
“When my mother was alive, I used to believe that I was born biologically. After she passed away, upon reflecting on all my experiences, I was convinced that God had sent me.”
There's no Messiah there. There's a messed up person all right, but no Messiah.
Spain is set to announce a new massive 1.13 billion Euro ($1.23 billion) military aid package for Ukraine.
The package will include roughly 12 additional PATRIOT interceptors, 19 Leopard 2A4s, and a large number of additional systems procured from the Spanish defense industry. https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1794986685085757806
No longer are they just sending obsolete kit from reserves: "..Most of the funding will go to Spanish companies to procure new equipment for Ukraine.."
Early skirmishes so far in the GE campaign - the pace will quicken at the beginning of June and from then on it'll ratchet up to July 4th.
Every time I hear a new Conservative "idea" my thought process is "you've led the Government for 14 years - you've had all that time to bring this in - why haven't you? Could it be because it's not a very good idea?". It's difficult, after 14 years, to sound fresh, new and different and there's only so many re-launches you can do in Government - three or four so far?
It may be that, as with the party in 1997 and Labour in 2010, there's nothing left and they've run out of road. Intellectual exhaustion going hand-in-hand with the sense of the inevitability of defeat isn't a good mix for rational thought - it's ideal for desperation and ill thought out half plans.
There will be those, for whom the prospect of a Labour Government is anathema, who will lap all this up because the "fear" of a Labour Government is that powerful, whether this comes from propaganda, familial memory or personal experience.
As an aside, I don't get involved much with social media but I know a lot of the campaign is now fought on the various platforms. The extent to which this actually moves voters or whether it re-enforces the echo chambers I don't know. I'd put as much faith in WhatsApp anecdotes as I do on reports from canvassers - none at all.
We need some decent regional and constituency polling - the sub samples from national polls are too small to be meaningful. Is London, for example, going to vote in line with the Mayoral election or the GLA contests?
The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
Is cake the right idea at a time of record obesity?
Cake inflation is currently running at 24.7%.
Good point, cake is a terrible idea. Bakewell tart for me.
Spain is set to announce a new massive 1.13 billion Euro ($1.23 billion) military aid package for Ukraine.
The package will include roughly 12 additional PATRIOT interceptors, 19 Leopard 2A4s, and a large number of additional systems procured from the Spanish defense industry. https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1794986685085757806
No longer are they just sending obsolete kit from reserves: "..Most of the funding will go to Spanish companies to procure new equipment for Ukraine.."
War, what is it good for absolutely nothing domestic arms manufacturers....
“I am convinced that ‘Parmatma’ (God) sent me for a purpose. Once the purpose is achieved, my work will be one done. This is why I have completely dedicated myself to God."
“When my mother was alive, I used to believe that I was born biologically. After she passed away, upon reflecting on all my experiences, I was convinced that God had sent me.”
Extraordinary, even for India.
South Africa votes this week. It looks likely to be the end of the ANC majority.
The EFF look to get 48 seats. Their manifesto would make Mao blush.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
She does not suggest that. The journalist suggests that and she gives a non-answer that avoids commenting on the suggestion. As the tweet says, she doesn’t rule it out.
She's not ruling it out though - which is apparently contemplating it as an option - otherwise you do what James Cleverly did in saying unequivocally won't be jailing people.
It was her who compared it to being compelled to attend school - for which you *are* prosecuted if your child fails to. That's how it works in terms of enforcement among those who refuse repeatedly to comply. Entirely fair for a journalist to take that at face value and say if that's what you're saying you'll be prosecuting parents.
Obviously they're not going to end up *doing it* as it's completely bonkers. But it shows what a shambles they are in on enforcement of the 'mandatory' element of this.
Spain is set to announce a new massive 1.13 billion Euro ($1.23 billion) military aid package for Ukraine.
The package will include roughly 12 additional PATRIOT interceptors, 19 Leopard 2A4s, and a large number of additional systems procured from the Spanish defense industry. https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1794986685085757806
No longer are they just sending obsolete kit from reserves: "..Most of the funding will go to Spanish companies to procure new equipment for Ukraine.."
A Patriot battery is $1bn each so I presume that's 12 missiles. It'll all be over by Xmas.
Reform will do best in areas of Conservative strength - whether it will be enough to cost the Conservatives seats remains to be seen.
The LDs will do poorly in most areas but very well in their targets though in some the rising Labour tide may help the Conservatives hang on.
Labour will win some seats from third place.
The Conservatives will do unexpectedly well in a few places - we've seen in the locals a few areas of core strength which resisted the Labour onslaught - Walsall, Dartford, Dudley (to a point), parts of Outer Suburban London. This may be down to hard working local MPs who disassociate themselves from the national party.
The Conservatives will do unexpectedly badly in other areas.
We could see swings in individual seats of up to 25%.
I leave Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland to others though the last named could be particularly interesting. It would be nice to see regional polling.
There's a long way to go and nothing is certain.
I have plenty more platitudes from where these originated.
Spain is set to announce a new massive 1.13 billion Euro ($1.23 billion) military aid package for Ukraine.
The package will include roughly 12 additional PATRIOT interceptors, 19 Leopard 2A4s, and a large number of additional systems procured from the Spanish defense industry. https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1794986685085757806
No longer are they just sending obsolete kit from reserves: "..Most of the funding will go to Spanish companies to procure new equipment for Ukraine.."
A Patriot battery is $1bn each so I presume that's 12 missiles. It'll all be over by Xmas.
You think the Russians are so far gone just 12 missiles will finish them off?
The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
@Steven_Swinford A minister has said that the Conservative's new national service scheme was 'sprung on' MPs and candidates without consultation
Steve Baker, an NI minister, said that the policy 'was developed by a political adviser or advisers and sprung on candidates, some of whom are relevant ministers'
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
Rachel Johnson is the most pointless journalist there is. She just tells us what other Johnson would say with less bluster. It's as empty and vacuous as anything he says.
@Steven_Swinford A minister has said that the Conservative's new national service scheme was 'sprung on' MPs and candidates without consultation
Steve Baker, an NI minister, said that the policy 'was developed by a political adviser or advisers and sprung on candidates, some of whom are relevant ministers'
It’s almost as though this policy hasn’t been properly thought through and has been written on back of a fag packet (now that cigs aren’t going to be banned)
IANAE but inventing a new policy on the spur of the moment might be a risky game to play.
But it hasn’t been. It has been in development a while. William Hague has been involved in crafting it.
The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
Is cake the right idea at a time of record obesity?
Cake inflation is currently running at 24.7%.
Good point, cake is a terrible idea. Bakewell tart for me.
This could be the first major split in the new party that will have to be formed to fill the centre right gap after the election. The Bakewell Faction v the Victoria Sponges.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
She does not suggest that. The journalist suggests that and she gives a non-answer that avoids commenting on the suggestion. As the tweet says, she doesn’t rule it out.
She's not ruling it out though - which is apparently contemplating it as an option - otherwise you do what James Cleverly did in saying unequivocally won't be jailing people.
It was her who compared it to being compelled to attend school - for which you *are* prosecuted if your child fails to. That's how it works in terms of enforcement among those who refuse repeatedly to comply. Entirely fair for a journalist to take that at face value and say if that's what you're saying you'll be prosecuting parents.
Obviously they're not going to end up *doing it* as it's completely bonkers. But it shows what a shambles they are in on enforcement of the 'mandatory' element of this.
I’m genuinely interested to see next week’s polling, which I assume will have some specific questions on this idea.
While us nerds have (with justification) quite quickly ripped the idea to shreds, actual normal people who just glance at the headlines may not see it for the ill-conceived electoral hail-Mary that a few minutes scrutiny reveals it to be. And as such, it may have a passing appeal.
The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
Is cake the right idea at a time of record obesity?
Cake inflation is currently running at 24.7%.
Good point, cake is a terrible idea. Bakewell tart for me.
This could be the first major split in the new party that will have to be formed to fill the centre right gap after the election. The Bakewell Faction v the Victoria Sponges.
“I am convinced that ‘Parmatma’ (God) sent me for a purpose. Once the purpose is achieved, my work will be one done. This is why I have completely dedicated myself to God."
“When my mother was alive, I used to believe that I was born biologically. After she passed away, upon reflecting on all my experiences, I was convinced that God had sent me.”
Extraordinary, even for India.
South Africa votes this week. It looks likely to be the end of the ANC majority.
The EFF look to get 48 seats. Their manifesto would make Mao blush.
In most democracies at most times that sort of nonsense would get you kicked out and laughed at but it ses Modi has hit upon the golden narrative for establishing a job for life:
- Establish democratic support and win an election - (Crucially) preside over strong economic growth in your first few years, in contrast to what came before. That locks in the support - Gradually ratchet up the authoritarian control, weaponising cultural tensions
It’s the Erdogan route. First few years in power saw strong economic growth after the preceding chaos. That’s how Putin established credibility too. And of course Mussolini made the trains run on time.
Don't purdah rules preclude civil servants from taking politically sensitive actions during the campaign?
Campaign hasn't started yet.
True, but pre-election period will have started from prorogation, and there are general rules about civil servants (particularly senior ones) taking political actions at any time.
Morning all. Off to do some non-compulsory volunteering...
It doesn't count if you enjoy it.
The latest research suggests even the pyramids didn't require compulsory volunteering.
Yay - Kant early on a Bank Holiday morning. Doing a good turn is of no moral worth if you enjoy doing it.
So, when I find an errant shopping trolley on my way to the local supermarket, I should not return it? This is about the limit of my "do-goodery" these days.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.
Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
The last Labour government who tried to introduce detention without charge for 90 days.
Is that much worse / different from the current Government’s (now failed) ban on any protest that is deemed ‘not minor’? With the implication that you can be banged up for protesting against just about anything? Genuine questions, not being facetious.
I think there are some very interesting bets on Scottish constituencies.
The SNP have sunk by a lot more than the Tories.
Could that see seats such as Ayr and Aberdeen South come into play for the Tories? Or will they leak so many votes to Labour that it's irrelevant?
Ayr looks a three way, the higher Lab go the more likely it becomes a Lab/SNP fight. Perthshire is one to watch. Aberdeen South interesting as is Angus and Argyll and Bute
Oh God, we’re back to the days of people ramping a Tory revival in Scotland. I’ll be surprised if they don’t net lose seats. All evidence is that they are almost as unpopular in Scotland as the SNP.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
Don't purdah rules preclude civil servants from taking politically sensitive actions during the campaign?
It would be mad if that applied to prosecutors. Taking to its absurd extreme, if a member of the cabinet was suspected of being a serial killer during a campaign, the idea that the prosecution should hold off charging until the election would be a little dangerous.
I don’t know the history in Scotland but the Met Police used to instruct solicitors and attorneys (there were such things in England back then) in private practice to draw up indictments. They took the work in house eventually before it was spun out again to the CPS in the 80s. So the work itself, down here anyway, is not historically civil service work.
Not "historically" sure. But it is now - calling yourself the Crown Office is a pretty balls out admission of civil service status by the sound of it.
You can arrest your serial killer but hold off charging him till after polling day
Ironic that sks got his first big break by turning charging decision announcements into showbiz. Always despised him for that
You can’t keep someone locked up for 6 weeks without charging them! You’d have to let the serial killer back out.
The duty imposed on what is now the COPFS is not to disclose material that might prejudice the investigation or the prospects of a fair trial. So you won't get public statements about someone being charged that contain more than the very basic material of the age of the person charged and the charge they are facing. They will not disclose, for example, any of the evidence that formed the basis of that charge.
Nicola, and other SNP politicians, have already been hiding behind an ongoing police investigation for more than 2 years.
Unless they are innocent, in which case they have been pilloried on PB and elsewhere for more than two years, unable to defend themselves.
A blind man can see the truth and it did not take 3 years to work it out. The money is gone and only a very few had access or could see the transactions.
SNP being skint is going to be a factor this election surely?
Their begging online is going well , saw Gethings was at £46 and Sheppard at £70. Money rolling in.
The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
Is cake the right idea at a time of record obesity?
Cake inflation is currently running at 24.7%.
Good point, cake is a terrible idea. Bakewell tart for me.
This could be the first major split in the new party that will have to be formed to fill the centre right gap after the election. The Bakewell Faction v the Victoria Sponges.
Would the Bakewell faction split into pudding and tart wings ?
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
She does not suggest that. The journalist suggests that and she gives a non-answer that avoids commenting on the suggestion. As the tweet says, she doesn’t rule it out.
She's not ruling it out though - which is apparently contemplating it as an option - otherwise you do what James Cleverly did in saying unequivocally won't be jailing people.
It was her who compared it to being compelled to attend school - for which you *are* prosecuted if your child fails to. That's how it works in terms of enforcement among those who refuse repeatedly to comply. Entirely fair for a journalist to take that at face value and say if that's what you're saying you'll be prosecuting parents.
Obviously they're not going to end up *doing it* as it's completely bonkers. But it shows what a shambles they are in on enforcement of the 'mandatory' element of this.
I’m genuinely interested to see next week’s polling, which I assume will have some specific questions on this idea.
While us nerds have (with justification) quite quickly ripped the idea to shreds, actual normal people who just glance at the headlines may not see it for the ill-conceived electoral hail-Mary that a few minutes scrutiny reveals it to be. And as such, it may have a passing appeal.
There was some polling in 2005(?) about the Conservative manifesto. Ask people about the policies, they were petty popular. Ask people about them as Conservative policies, and they weren't.
Vibes matter, and the vibes around Rishi are horrible.
Morning all. Off to do some non-compulsory volunteering...
It doesn't count if you enjoy it.
The latest research suggests even the pyramids didn't require compulsory volunteering.
Yay - Kant early on a Bank Holiday morning. Doing a good turn is of no moral worth if you enjoy doing it.
So, when I find an errant shopping trolley on my way to the local supermarket, I should not return it? This is about the limit of my "do-goodery" these days.
Alan, I'm sure others have mentioned it too, but congratulations on being the only entrant in Ben's Excellent Competition to predict correctly the date of the GE.
@Steven_Swinford A minister has said that the Conservative's new national service scheme was 'sprung on' MPs and candidates without consultation
Steve Baker, an NI minister, said that the policy 'was developed by a political adviser or advisers and sprung on candidates, some of whom are relevant ministers'
It’s almost as though this policy hasn’t been properly thought through and has been written on back of a fag packet (now that cigs aren’t going to be banned)
IANAE but inventing a new policy on the spur of the moment might be a risky game to play.
But it hasn’t been. It has been in development a while. William Hague has been involved in crafting it.
Sounds like the crap Vague would come up with for sure.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
She does not suggest that. The journalist suggests that and she gives a non-answer that avoids commenting on the suggestion. As the tweet says, she doesn’t rule it out.
She's not ruling it out though - which is apparently contemplating it as an option - otherwise you do what James Cleverly did in saying unequivocally won't be jailing people.
It was her who compared it to being compelled to attend school - for which you *are* prosecuted if your child fails to. That's how it works in terms of enforcement among those who refuse repeatedly to comply. Entirely fair for a journalist to take that at face value and say if that's what you're saying you'll be prosecuting parents.
Obviously they're not going to end up *doing it* as it's completely bonkers. But it shows what a shambles they are in on enforcement of the 'mandatory' element of this.
I’m genuinely interested to see next week’s polling, which I assume will have some specific questions on this idea.
While us nerds have (with justification) quite quickly ripped the idea to shreds, actual normal people who just glance at the headlines may not see it for the ill-conceived electoral hail-Mary that a few minutes scrutiny reveals it to be. And as such, it may have a passing appeal.
There was some polling in 2005(?) about the Conservative manifesto. Ask people about the policies, they were petty popular. Ask people about them as Conservative policies, and they weren't.
Vibes matter, and the vibes around Rishi are horrible.
@Steven_Swinford A minister has said that the Conservative's new national service scheme was 'sprung on' MPs and candidates without consultation
Steve Baker, an NI minister, said that the policy 'was developed by a political adviser or advisers and sprung on candidates, some of whom are relevant ministers'
It’s almost as though this policy hasn’t been properly thought through and has been written on back of a fag packet (now that cigs aren’t going to be banned)
IANAE but inventing a new policy on the spur of the moment might be a risky game to play.
But it hasn’t been. It has been in development a while. William Hague has been involved in crafting it.
Sounds like the crap Vague would come up with for sure.
I thought you were all for compelling today's feckless youth to do time polishing boots and marching around parade grounds?
Rachel Johnson is the most pointless journalist there is. She just tells us what other Johnson would say with less bluster. It's as empty and vacuous as anything he says.
She often disagrees with Big Bro Boris in order to get herself a few seconds of publicity.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.
Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
Have Labour dropped the "Gulags For Slags" policy?
I don’t know what your question means?
But I’m not the one to answer questions on a Labour manifesto anyway. I doubt I’ll get around to reading theirs, or those of any other party, in full tbh.
But I’m inferring that you and TSE don’t think the last Labour Gov’t, by which I take it you mean Gordon Brown’s, was very libertarian either?
I think socially they were. A raft of good reforms that brought much-needed advances.
In every election Labour have a key problem. 68% of voters in the 18-24 age bracket support the party. But only 47% of those in that age bracket actually vote. The Tory's national service policy has gone some way to solving that.
The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
My 2 favourite cakes. You've got my vote.
I thought Dundee cake would be your thing?
A dyed in the wool unionist , don't be silly, he mimics the colonial masters in London. Tea at 4pm with a picture of the latest inbred and a union jack proudly displayed on the wall and God save the Inbred intoned before supping.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.
Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future (though apparently not war crimes).
Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
Spain is set to announce a new massive 1.13 billion Euro ($1.23 billion) military aid package for Ukraine.
The package will include roughly 12 additional PATRIOT interceptors, 19 Leopard 2A4s, and a large number of additional systems procured from the Spanish defense industry. https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1794986685085757806
No longer are they just sending obsolete kit from reserves: "..Most of the funding will go to Spanish companies to procure new equipment for Ukraine.."
A Patriot battery is $1bn each so I presume that's 12 missiles. It'll all be over by Xmas.
It said interceptors ( ie missiles ) which I hardly think are $1 billion each , imagined you would have known the difference.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.
Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future.
Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
He actually *did* introduce indefinite prison sentences, which people are still serving. As outrageous to me as blood and Post office scandals. And of course if we get an inquiry it will be decades late and no help for those who have committed suicide in prison
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.
Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future.
Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
He actually *did* introduce indefinite prison sentences, which people are still serving. As outrageous to me as blood and Post office scandals. And of course if we get an inquiry it will be decades late and no help for those who have committed suicide in prison
Oh I see.
Well just confirms many of my views on Tony Blair, which I’ve made no secret about on here. I disliked him then and I dislike him now.
I marched against the war in Iraq, standing right behind someone called Jeremy Corbyn.
The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.
Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future.
Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
He actually *did* introduce indefinite prison sentences, which people are still serving. As outrageous to me as blood and Post office scandals. And of course if we get an inquiry it will be decades late and no help for those who have committed suicide in prison
Oh I see.
Well just confirms many of my views on Tony Blair, which I’ve made no secret about on here. I disliked him then and I dislike him now.
I marched against the war in Iraq, standing right behind someone called Jeremy Corbyn.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.
Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future (though apparently not war crimes).
Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
People have forgotten what a Labour government means. Because it's been over 14 years.
One Downing Street insider called the 61- year-old Labour leader "Sleepy Keir", an apparent attempt to link him in the public's mind to the US's 81-year-old President Joe Biden, dubbed "Sleepy Joe" by Donald Trump. "Campaigns are tough, tiring things and it's understandable that he may be weary," said a Tory campaign official. "But being prime minister is a 24/7 job which requires stamina."
I do recommend that piece on Keir Starmer in yesterday’s Sunday Times.
I suspect very few people on here really know the man. You won’t be massively enlightened after reading it but that’s part of the point. It explains something about the enigmatic figure.
I’m not massively enthused about Starmer but personally I’m extremely glad he’s not another charismatic. I’m sick and tired of being led by people like that who seem to cause us nothing but trouble (Blair, Cameron, Clegg, Boris, Truss).
The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
@Steven_Swinford A minister has said that the Conservative's new national service scheme was 'sprung on' MPs and candidates without consultation
Steve Baker, an NI minister, said that the policy 'was developed by a political adviser or advisers and sprung on candidates, some of whom are relevant ministers'
It’s almost as though this policy hasn’t been properly thought through and has been written on back of a fag packet (now that cigs aren’t going to be banned)
IANAE but inventing a new policy on the spur of the moment might be a risky game to play.
But it hasn’t been. It has been in development a while. William Hague has been involved in crafting it.
Sounds like the crap Vague would come up with for sure.
I thought you were all for compelling today's feckless youth to do time polishing boots and marching around parade grounds?
I would make the b*ggers work. Get them out sweeping the streets, picking up litter , getting chewing gum off pavements, painting graffiti and helping old ladies across the street. 8 am - 5pm with 30 minutes for lunch. Pay retired soldiers to ensure disciplne and no slacking. No cushy billets.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.
Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future.
Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
He actually *did* introduce indefinite prison sentences, which people are still serving. As outrageous to me as blood and Post office scandals. And of course if we get an inquiry it will be decades late and no help for those who have committed suicide in prison
Oh I see.
Well just confirms many of my views on Tony Blair, which I’ve made no secret about on here. I disliked him then and I dislike him now.
I marched against the war in Iraq, standing right behind someone called Jeremy Corbyn.
How was the smell? Hummus and Voltarol?
He was a lot less famous back then so I didn’t really take much notice. George Galloway was also in front of me which I keep more quiet about. But at least even I could see over the top.
As is my infantile habit I checked in to a shooting range in the US in January to blast away with a Glock for an hour, just had an email offering $50 off when I buy $250 of ammunition as a Memorial Day special. It's what they would have wanted.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
My 2 favourite cakes. You've got my vote.
I thought Dundee cake would be your thing?
Dundee cake is fine but Victoria sponge well made with a slightly tart jam to offset the sweetness of the cream and coffee and walnut are simply divine. @algarkirk is a man of excellent taste and judgment.
The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
My 2 favourite cakes. You've got my vote.
I thought Dundee cake would be your thing?
A dyed in the wool unionist , don't be silly, he mimics the colonial masters in London. Tea at 4pm with a picture of the latest inbred and a union jack proudly displayed on the wall and God save the Inbred intoned before supping.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.
Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
The last Labour government who tried to introduce detention without charge for 90 days.
If the Tories hadn't opposed it, Steve Bray could be safely banged up in Wandsworth until after the election.
Chilling
Funny how we’ll happily silence a guy with a megaphone but when privileged Etonian Dave Cameron tries to ban the publication of a book exposing him over his Greenshill stench it raises not a murmur on here.
Greenshill should cause outrage. And if you know about it you’d not think so highly of Cameron again.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.
Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future.
Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
He actually *did* introduce indefinite prison sentences, which people are still serving. As outrageous to me as blood and Post office scandals. And of course if we get an inquiry it will be decades late and no help for those who have committed suicide in prison
Oh I see.
Well just confirms many of my views on Tony Blair, which I’ve made no secret about on here. I disliked him then and I dislike him now.
I marched against the war in Iraq, standing right behind someone called Jeremy Corbyn.
Bloody proud I did too.
Cool story. Are you the one on the left or the right?
One Downing Street insider called the 61- year-old Labour leader "Sleepy Keir", an apparent attempt to link him in the public's mind to the US's 81-year-old President Joe Biden, dubbed "Sleepy Joe" by Donald Trump. "Campaigns are tough, tiring things and it's understandable that he may be weary," said a Tory campaign official. "But being prime minister is a 24/7 job which requires stamina."
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.
Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future.
Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
He actually *did* introduce indefinite prison sentences, which people are still serving. As outrageous to me as blood and Post office scandals. And of course if we get an inquiry it will be decades late and no help for those who have committed suicide in prison
Oh I see.
Well just confirms many of my views on Tony Blair, which I’ve made no secret about on here. I disliked him then and I dislike him now.
I marched against the war in Iraq, standing right behind someone called Jeremy Corbyn.
Bloody proud I did too.
Cool story. Are you the one on the left or the right?
Haha excellent!
There were, iirc, 3 anti Iraq war marches? I think mine was the 15th Feb one. Keep digging around and there’s a vague possibility you’ll find me.
The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
She does not suggest that. The journalist suggests that and she gives a non-answer that avoids commenting on the suggestion. As the tweet says, she doesn’t rule it out.
She's not ruling it out though - which is apparently contemplating it as an option - otherwise you do what James Cleverly did in saying unequivocally won't be jailing people.
It was her who compared it to being compelled to attend school - for which you *are* prosecuted if your child fails to. That's how it works in terms of enforcement among those who refuse repeatedly to comply. Entirely fair for a journalist to take that at face value and say if that's what you're saying you'll be prosecuting parents.
Obviously they're not going to end up *doing it* as it's completely bonkers. But it shows what a shambles they are in on enforcement of the 'mandatory' element of this.
I’m genuinely interested to see next week’s polling, which I assume will have some specific questions on this idea.
While us nerds have (with justification) quite quickly ripped the idea to shreds, actual normal people who just glance at the headlines may not see it for the ill-conceived electoral hail-Mary that a few minutes scrutiny reveals it to be. And as such, it may have a passing appeal.
There was some polling in 2005(?) about the Conservative manifesto. Ask people about the policies, they were petty popular. Ask people about them as Conservative policies, and they weren't.
Vibes matter, and the vibes around Rishi are horrible.
Its notable that the only thing that the public have approved of was his calling the election (aka resigning).
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.
Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future (though apparently not war crimes).
Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
Blair and New Labour definitely had some authoritarian tendencies. Personally I wouldn't put ID cards in there with the rest of that list...
I'm more optimistic about Starmer. He's been a human rights lawyer and will have seen a lot of miscarriages of justice. But my worry is that he is so desperate to win, that he may feel he has to act tough and compromise his principles.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.
Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
Have Labour dropped the "Gulags For Slags" policy?
I don’t know what your question means?
But I’m not the one to answer questions on a Labour manifesto anyway. I doubt I’ll get around to reading theirs, or those of any other party, in full tbh.
But I’m inferring that you and TSE don’t think the last Labour Gov’t, by which I take it you mean Gordon Brown’s, was very libertarian either?
I think socially they were. A raft of good reforms that brought much-needed advances.
Gordon Brown at one point suggested "From now on all 16- and 17-year-old parents who get support from the taxpayer will be placed in a network of supervised homes. "
One Downing Street insider called the 61- year-old Labour leader "Sleepy Keir", an apparent attempt to link him in the public's mind to the US's 81-year-old President Joe Biden, dubbed "Sleepy Joe" by Donald Trump. "Campaigns are tough, tiring things and it's understandable that he may be weary," said a Tory campaign official. "But being prime minister is a 24/7 job which requires stamina."
They really are very bad at this, considering whatever you think of him Starmer looks a young 61, famously plays football every week and kind of looks like a Thunderbirds character gone slightly to seed.
If it were Corbyn it would make sense, if still daft. But not here.
Plus, what a way to insult the only people in the country still voting for you as past it.
One Downing Street insider called the 61- year-old Labour leader "Sleepy Keir", an apparent attempt to link him in the public's mind to the US's 81-year-old President Joe Biden, dubbed "Sleepy Joe" by Donald Trump. "Campaigns are tough, tiring things and it's understandable that he may be weary," said a Tory campaign official. "But being prime minister is a 24/7 job which requires stamina."
They really are very bad at this, considering whatever you think of him Starmer looks a young 61, famously plays football every week and kind of looks like a Thunderbirds character gone slightly to seed.
If it were Corbyn it would make sense, if still daft. But not here.
Plus, what a way to insult the only people in the country still voting for you as past it.
I honestly think SKS is quite a sexy man. I say as a straight man.
Morning all. Off to do some non-compulsory volunteering...
It doesn't count if you enjoy it.
The latest research suggests even the pyramids didn't require compulsory volunteering.
Yay - Kant early on a Bank Holiday morning. Doing a good turn is of no moral worth if you enjoy doing it.
So, when I find an errant shopping trolley on my way to the local supermarket, I should not return it? This is about the limit of my "do-goodery" these days.
Alan, I'm sure others have mentioned it too, but congratulations on being the only entrant in Ben's Excellent Competition to predict correctly the date of the GE.
How does it feel to be a front-runner?
To be honest, I had forgotten about that competition.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.
Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future (though apparently not war crimes).
Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
Blair and New Labour definitely had some authoritarian tendencies. Personally I wouldn't put ID cards in there with the rest of that list...
I'm more optimistic about Starmer. He's been a human rights lawyer and will have seen a lot of miscarriages of justice. But my worry is that he is so desperate to win, that he may feel he has to act tough and compromise his principles.
Yep exactly.
I can’t really see someone who had a successful career as a human rights lawyer then suddenly banning them.
What yesterday’s Sunday Times double piece said, which I now discover was similar to George Eaton’s New Statesman piece, is that Starmer does not follow ideology. He’s all about pragmatism.
Well thank BLOODY goodness for that, I say!
I am sick and bloody tired of stupid ideological politicians screwing up our lives. Give me some pragmatism and competence now, please.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.
Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future (though apparently not war crimes).
Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
People have forgotten what a Labour government means. Because it's been over 14 years.
Many are not going to like it.
When they reme
In reality, it was a pretty popular government for quite a long period until, as they all do, it made a series of mistakes and ran out of steam.
I know it's standard practice to invent a little story about a predecessor administration being a total fiasco throughout - and it's an effective tactic too as, almost by definition, your opponent is at a low point in public esteem when they lose office. But it isn't terribly credible.
One Downing Street insider called the 61- year-old Labour leader "Sleepy Keir", an apparent attempt to link him in the public's mind to the US's 81-year-old President Joe Biden, dubbed "Sleepy Joe" by Donald Trump. "Campaigns are tough, tiring things and it's understandable that he may be weary," said a Tory campaign official. "But being prime minister is a 24/7 job which requires stamina."
They really are very bad at this, considering whatever you think of him Starmer looks a young 61, famously plays football every week and kind of looks like a Thunderbirds character gone slightly to seed.
If it were Corbyn it would make sense, if still daft. But not here.
Plus, what a way to insult the only people in the country still voting for you as past it.
I honestly think SKS is quite a sexy man. I say as a straight man.
He’s got great hair and is quite handsome . He also looks like he could chop a few logs where as Sunak looks like he could barely lift a tin of beans .
Seeing as @Casino_Royale has openly admitted that he will be campaigning for the Conservative Party his posts are effectively @HYUFD style party political broadcasts
One Downing Street insider called the 61- year-old Labour leader "Sleepy Keir", an apparent attempt to link him in the public's mind to the US's 81-year-old President Joe Biden, dubbed "Sleepy Joe" by Donald Trump. "Campaigns are tough, tiring things and it's understandable that he may be weary," said a Tory campaign official. "But being prime minister is a 24/7 job which requires stamina."
They really are very bad at this, considering whatever you think of him Starmer looks a young 61, famously plays football every week and kind of looks like a Thunderbirds character gone slightly to seed.
If it were Corbyn it would make sense, if still daft. But not here.
Plus, what a way to insult the only people in the country still voting for you as past it.
I honestly think SKS is quite a sexy man. I say as a straight man.
He’s got great hair and is quite handsome . He also looks like he could chop a few logs where as Sunak looks like he could barely lift a tin of beans .
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.
Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future (though apparently not war crimes).
Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
People have forgotten what a Labour government means. Because it's been over 14 years.
Many are not going to like it.
When they reme
In reality, it was a pretty popular government for quite a long period until, as they all do, it made a series of mistakes and ran out of steam.
I know it's standard practice to invent a little story about a predecessor administration being a total fiasco throughout - and it's an effective tactic too as, almost by definition, your opponent is at a low point in public esteem when they lose office. But it isn't terribly credible.
Yeah, I didn’t like TB but New Labour was great for this country.
Pretty-much the last time this country was relaxed and happy.
One Downing Street insider called the 61- year-old Labour leader "Sleepy Keir", an apparent attempt to link him in the public's mind to the US's 81-year-old President Joe Biden, dubbed "Sleepy Joe" by Donald Trump. "Campaigns are tough, tiring things and it's understandable that he may be weary," said a Tory campaign official. "But being prime minister is a 24/7 job which requires stamina."
They really are very bad at this, considering whatever you think of him Starmer looks a young 61, famously plays football every week and kind of looks like a Thunderbirds character gone slightly to seed.
If it were Corbyn it would make sense, if still daft. But not here.
Plus, what a way to insult the only people in the country still voting for you as past it.
I honestly think SKS is quite a sexy man. I say as a straight man.
Morning all. Off to do some non-compulsory volunteering...
It doesn't count if you enjoy it.
The latest research suggests even the pyramids didn't require compulsory volunteering.
Yay - Kant early on a Bank Holiday morning. Doing a good turn is of no moral worth if you enjoy doing it.
So, when I find an errant shopping trolley on my way to the local supermarket, I should not return it? This is about the limit of my "do-goodery" these days.
Kant's test for shopping trolley return (not to be confused with the runaway trolley problem, which is different):
"Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law.”
He doesn't really mind if you enjoy doing it, but it doesn't give what Kant would call 'bragging rights'.
@Steven_Swinford A minister has said that the Conservative's new national service scheme was 'sprung on' MPs and candidates without consultation
Steve Baker, an NI minister, said that the policy 'was developed by a political adviser or advisers and sprung on candidates, some of whom are relevant ministers'
It’s almost as though this policy hasn’t been properly thought through and has been written on back of a fag packet (now that cigs aren’t going to be banned)
IANAE but inventing a new policy on the spur of the moment might be a risky game to play.
But it hasn’t been. It has been in development a while. William Hague has been involved in crafting it.
Sounds like the crap Vague would come up with for sure.
I thought you were all for compelling today's feckless youth to do time polishing boots and marching around parade grounds?
I would make the b*ggers work. Get them out sweeping the streets, picking up litter , getting chewing gum off pavements, painting graffiti and helping old ladies across the street. 8 am - 5pm with 30 minutes for lunch. Pay retired soldiers to ensure disciplne and no slacking. No cushy billets.
There was a little old lady, who was walkin' down the road She was struggling with bags from Tesco There were people from the city havin' lunch in the park I believe that is called al fresco When a kid came along to offer a hand But before she had time to accept it Hits her over the head, doesn't care if she's dead 'Cause he's got all her jewellery and wallet
I fear I may have spotted (yet another) flaw in this plan.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.
Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future (though apparently not war crimes).
Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
People have forgotten what a Labour government means. Because it's been over 14 years.
Many are not going to like it.
When they reme
In reality, it was a pretty popular government for quite a long period until, as they all do, it made a series of mistakes and ran out of steam.
I know it's standard practice to invent a little story about a predecessor administration being a total fiasco throughout - and it's an effective tactic too as, almost by definition, your opponent is at a low point in public esteem when they lose office. But it isn't terribly credible.
Actually, it was only really popular for the first few years - note how turnout dropped in 2001, it started losing locals and euros quite clearly, and then a lot of voters starting deserting it post Iraq in 2005.
To the extent that Blair was relatively popular his premiership from 1997-2007 coincided with some of the most benign economic conditions we'd ever experienced, though for most of the last half of it everyone was constantly nervous about the threat of Islamic terrorism.
Did the Tories not support detention without charge?
I just can't support such a policy, innocent until proven guilty. Always.
They opposed it at 90 days and 56 days.
That's not opposed it full stop, is it?
God, you're embarrassing. Being detained without charge has existed for many years, it gives the police/CPS time to gather evidence/make decisions.
Blair wanted to increase pre charge detention from 14 days to 90 days, when that was defeated he tried to compromise at 56 days, which was defeated again.
Blair had a massive strop saying anyone opposed to 90/56 days detention without charges was effectively helping terrorists.
So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.
I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.
This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.
Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future (though apparently not war crimes).
Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
Blair and New Labour definitely had some authoritarian tendencies. Personally I wouldn't put ID cards in there with the rest of that list...
I'm more optimistic about Starmer. He's been a human rights lawyer and will have seen a lot of miscarriages of justice. But my worry is that he is so desperate to win, that he may feel he has to act tough and compromise his principles.
Yep exactly.
I can’t really see someone who had a successful career as a human rights lawyer then suddenly banning them.
What yesterday’s Sunday Times double piece said, which I now discover was similar to George Eaton’s New Statesman piece, is that Starmer does not follow ideology. He’s all about pragmatism.
Well thank BLOODY goodness for that, I say!
I am sick and bloody tired of stupid ideological politicians screwing up our lives. Give me some pragmatism and competence now, please.
I am quite confident that Starmer is an ends justify the means kind of person. I think all top British politicians are, because that's a quality British politics currently selects for.
So if he is convinced it is necessary to perpetuate his rule there is very little he won't do.
This is no very great criticism of Starmer. We shouldn't underestimate how difficult it is to do the contrary, when our political system does so much to dissuade people from putting principle above expediency.
Comments
Now on to the Tory expertise in robotics.
Spain is set to announce a new massive 1.13 billion Euro ($1.23 billion) military aid package for Ukraine.
The package will include roughly 12 additional PATRIOT interceptors, 19 Leopard 2A4s, and a large number of additional systems procured from the Spanish defense industry.
https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1794986685085757806
No longer are they just sending obsolete kit from reserves:
"..Most of the funding will go to Spanish companies to procure new equipment for Ukraine.."
Early skirmishes so far in the GE campaign - the pace will quicken at the beginning of June and from then on it'll ratchet up to July 4th.
Every time I hear a new Conservative "idea" my thought process is "you've led the Government for 14 years - you've had all that time to bring this in - why haven't you? Could it be because it's not a very good idea?". It's difficult, after 14 years, to sound fresh, new and different and there's only so many re-launches you can do in Government - three or four so far?
It may be that, as with the party in 1997 and Labour in 2010, there's nothing left and they've run out of road. Intellectual exhaustion going hand-in-hand with the sense of the inevitability of defeat isn't a good mix for rational thought - it's ideal for desperation and ill thought out half plans.
There will be those, for whom the prospect of a Labour Government is anathema, who will lap all this up because the "fear" of a Labour Government is that powerful, whether this comes from propaganda, familial memory or personal experience.
As an aside, I don't get involved much with social media but I know a lot of the campaign is now fought on the various platforms. The extent to which this actually moves voters or whether it re-enforces the echo chambers I don't know. I'd put as much faith in WhatsApp anecdotes as I do on reports from canvassers - none at all.
We need some decent regional and constituency polling - the sub samples from national polls are too small to be meaningful. Is London, for example, going to vote in line with the Mayoral election or the GLA contests?
absolutely nothingdomestic arms manufacturers....South Africa votes this week. It looks likely to be the end of the ANC majority.
The EFF look to get 48 seats. Their manifesto would make Mao blush.
It was her who compared it to being compelled to attend school - for which you *are* prosecuted if your child fails to. That's how it works in terms of enforcement among those who refuse repeatedly to comply. Entirely fair for a journalist to take that at face value and say if that's what you're saying you'll be prosecuting parents.
Obviously they're not going to end up *doing it* as it's completely bonkers. But it shows what a shambles they are in on enforcement of the 'mandatory' element of this.
Reform will do best in areas of Conservative strength - whether it will be enough to cost the Conservatives seats remains to be seen.
The LDs will do poorly in most areas but very well in their targets though in some the rising Labour tide may help the Conservatives hang on.
Labour will win some seats from third place.
The Conservatives will do unexpectedly well in a few places - we've seen in the locals a few areas of core strength which resisted the Labour onslaught - Walsall, Dartford, Dudley (to a point), parts of Outer Suburban London. This may be down to hard working local MPs who disassociate themselves from the national party.
The Conservatives will do unexpectedly badly in other areas.
We could see swings in individual seats of up to 25%.
I leave Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland to others though the last named could be particularly interesting. It would be nice to see regional polling.
There's a long way to go and nothing is certain.
I have plenty more platitudes from where these originated.
A minister has said that the Conservative's new national service scheme was 'sprung on' MPs and candidates without consultation
Steve Baker, an NI minister, said that the policy 'was developed by a political adviser or advisers and sprung on candidates, some of whom are relevant ministers'
Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
2021: Boris Johnson says we're changing direction to a high wage economy
2024: Rachel Johnson says she likes unpaid National Service because we haven't got enough people to pick our fruit
https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1794716707631792271
While us nerds have (with justification) quite quickly ripped the idea to shreds, actual normal people who just glance at the headlines may not see it for the ill-conceived electoral hail-Mary that a few minutes scrutiny reveals it to be. And as such, it may have a passing appeal.
- Establish democratic support and win an election
- (Crucially) preside over strong economic growth in your first few years, in contrast to what came before. That locks in the support
- Gradually ratchet up the authoritarian control, weaponising cultural tensions
It’s the Erdogan route. First few years in power saw strong economic growth after the preceding chaos. That’s how Putin established credibility too. And of course Mussolini made the trains run on time.
This is about the limit of my "do-goodery" these days.
Commission, eh.
Either the minister doesn't understand the policy she is announcing or the country's officers' messes are about to undergo the most almighty upheaval.
Vibes matter, and the vibes around Rishi are horrible.
How does it feel to be a front-runner?
It has to be chocolate fudge and, yes fine, coffee and walnut.
SNP crashing in Scotland
Tories crashing in England.
FPTP will once again prove what it gives it can just as easily take away...
But I’m not the one to answer questions on a Labour manifesto anyway. I doubt I’ll get around to reading theirs, or those of any other party, in full tbh.
But I’m inferring that you and TSE don’t think the last Labour Gov’t, by which I take it you mean Gordon Brown’s, was very libertarian either?
I think socially they were. A raft of good reforms that brought much-needed advances.
In every election Labour have a key problem. 68% of voters in the 18-24 age bracket support the party. But only 47% of those in that age bracket actually vote. The Tory's national service policy has gone some way to solving that.
Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
Well just confirms many of my views on Tony Blair, which I’ve made no secret about on here. I disliked him then and I dislike him now.
I marched against the war in Iraq, standing right behind someone called Jeremy Corbyn.
Bloody proud I did too.
Many are not going to like it.
When they reme
https://x.com/JamesFitzJourno/status/1795015985461653708/photo/1
I suspect very few people on here really know the man. You won’t be massively enlightened after reading it but that’s part of the point. It explains something about the enigmatic figure.
I’m not massively enthused about Starmer but personally I’m extremely glad he’s not another charismatic. I’m sick and tired of being led by people like that who seem to cause us nothing but trouble (Blair, Cameron, Clegg, Boris, Truss).
I just want a leader who is competent and safe.
No cushy billets.
As is my infantile habit I checked in to a shooting range in the US in January to blast away with a Glock for an hour, just had an email offering $50 off when I buy $250 of ammunition as a Memorial Day special. It's what they would have wanted.
I just can't support such a policy, innocent until proven guilty. Always.
Funny how we’ll happily silence a guy with a megaphone but when privileged Etonian Dave Cameron tries to ban the publication of a book exposing him over his Greenshill stench it raises not a murmur on here.
Greenshill should cause outrage. And if you know about it you’d not think so highly of Cameron again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUab-oMShEY (and other channels)
He makes a lousy speaker.
"Don't you think she looks tired?"
There were, iirc, 3 anti Iraq war marches? I think mine was the 15th Feb one. Keep digging around and there’s a vague possibility you’ll find me.
Young and gorgeous, obvs
I'm more optimistic about Starmer. He's been a human rights lawyer and will have seen a lot of miscarriages of justice. But my worry is that he is so desperate to win, that he may feel he has to act tough and compromise his principles.
If it were Corbyn it would make sense, if still daft. But not here.
Plus, what a way to insult the only people in the country still voting for you as past it.
I can’t really see someone who had a successful career as a human rights lawyer then suddenly banning them.
What yesterday’s Sunday Times double piece said, which I now discover was similar to George Eaton’s New Statesman piece, is that Starmer does not follow ideology. He’s all about pragmatism.
Well thank BLOODY goodness for that, I say!
I am sick and bloody tired of stupid ideological politicians screwing up our lives. Give me some pragmatism and competence now, please.
I know it's standard practice to invent a little story about a predecessor administration being a total fiasco throughout - and it's an effective tactic too as, almost by definition, your opponent is at a low point in public esteem when they lose office. But it isn't terribly credible.
https://www.newstatesman.com/cover-story/2024/05/what-is-starmerism
* I’m pretty sure Keir Starmer would loathe the idea of ‘Starmerism’. That’s exactly what he doesn’t stand for.
Pretty-much the last time this country was relaxed and happy.
But his public speaking style is rather dreary.
"Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law.”
He doesn't really mind if you enjoy doing it, but it doesn't give what Kant would call 'bragging rights'.
She was struggling with bags from Tesco
There were people from the city havin' lunch in the park
I believe that is called al fresco
When a kid came along to offer a hand
But before she had time to accept it
Hits her over the head, doesn't care if she's dead
'Cause he's got all her jewellery and wallet
I fear I may have spotted (yet another) flaw in this plan.
To the extent that Blair was relatively popular his premiership from 1997-2007 coincided with some of the most benign economic conditions we'd ever experienced, though for most of the last half of it everyone was constantly nervous about the threat of Islamic terrorism.
Blair wanted to increase pre charge detention from 14 days to 90 days, when that was defeated he tried to compromise at 56 days, which was defeated again.
Blair had a massive strop saying anyone opposed to 90/56 days detention without charges was effectively helping terrorists.
So if he is convinced it is necessary to perpetuate his rule there is very little he won't do.
This is no very great criticism of Starmer. We shouldn't underestimate how difficult it is to do the contrary, when our political system does so much to dissuade people from putting principle above expediency.