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The next chapter of the Scottish play? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,095

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    National Tea Time. Excellent. Made me LOL.
    Wally Webb used to have a Synchronised Sip on his early morning Radio Norfolk show. He'd be all for it
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 11,107

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    National Tea Time. Excellent. Made me LOL.
    The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,873
    malcolmg said:

    Eabhal said:

    DavidL said:

    megasaur said:

    DougSeal said:

    megasaur said:

    Don't purdah rules preclude civil servants from taking politically sensitive actions during the campaign?

    It would be mad if that applied to prosecutors. Taking to its absurd extreme, if a member of the cabinet was suspected of being a serial killer during a campaign, the idea that the prosecution should hold off charging until the election would be a little dangerous.

    I don’t know the history in Scotland but the Met Police used to instruct solicitors and attorneys (there were such things in England back then) in private practice to draw up indictments. They took the work in house eventually before it was spun out again to the CPS in the 80s. So the work itself, down here anyway, is not historically civil service work.
    Not "historically" sure. But it is now - calling yourself the Crown Office is a pretty balls out admission of civil service status by the sound of it.

    You can arrest your serial killer but hold off charging him till after polling day

    Ironic that sks got his first big break by turning charging decision announcements into showbiz. Always despised him for that
    You can’t keep someone locked up for 6 weeks without charging them! You’d have to let the serial killer back out.
    The duty imposed on what is now the COPFS is not to disclose material that might prejudice the investigation or the prospects of a fair trial. So you won't get public statements about someone being charged that contain more than the very basic material of the age of the person charged and the charge they are facing. They will not disclose, for example, any of the evidence that formed the basis of that charge.

    Nicola, and other SNP politicians, have already been hiding behind an ongoing police investigation for more than 2 years.
    Unless they are innocent, in which case they have been pilloried on PB and elsewhere for more than two years, unable to defend themselves.
    A blind man can see the truth and it did not take 3 years to work it out. The money is gone and only a very few had access or could see the transactions.
    SNP being skint is going to be a factor this election surely?
  • Options
    megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586

    megasaur said:

    Don't purdah rules preclude civil servants from taking politically sensitive actions during the campaign?

    If you are interested, the rules for civil servants are set out at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/664f56b74f29e1d07fadcdd3/GENERAL_ELECTION_GUIDANCE_2024.pdf
    Thank you

    Only bit I can see prohibiting Rwanda flights: "However, it is customary for Ministers to observe
    discretion in initiating any new action of a continuing or long term character." Perhaps I am hallucinating about this (not than anyone wants to try, obviously)

  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,669
    edited May 27
    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    National Tea Time. Excellent. Made me LOL.
    The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
    Is cake the right idea at a time of record obesity?

    Cake inflation is currently running at 24.7%.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,986
    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    National Tea Time. Excellent. Made me LOL.
    The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
    My 2 favourite cakes. You've got my vote.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,190
    edited May 27
    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    Quite like the national tea time idea. And it would really wind up the Nats.
    I think it would wind up anybody wanting to interact with any service at 4pm.

    "Hello. This is 999. Your call is important to us. We are currently drinking tea and will resume taking calls in. TWELVE. minutes. If you are bleeding from an aorta, please direct the blood flow away from your telephone headset so your call doesn't get accidentally cut off." [Musak version of Rolling Stone Let It Bleed plays]
    That would at least reduce pressure on the NHS.

    Now on to the Tory expertise in robotics.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,327
    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    National Tea Time. Excellent. Made me LOL.
    The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
    My 2 favourite cakes. You've got my vote.
    Lemon drizzle instead of coffee and walnut and I'm all for it.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,669
    Foxy said:

    malcolmg said:

    Eabhal said:

    DavidL said:

    megasaur said:

    DougSeal said:

    megasaur said:

    Don't purdah rules preclude civil servants from taking politically sensitive actions during the campaign?

    It would be mad if that applied to prosecutors. Taking to its absurd extreme, if a member of the cabinet was suspected of being a serial killer during a campaign, the idea that the prosecution should hold off charging until the election would be a little dangerous.

    I don’t know the history in Scotland but the Met Police used to instruct solicitors and attorneys (there were such things in England back then) in private practice to draw up indictments. They took the work in house eventually before it was spun out again to the CPS in the 80s. So the work itself, down here anyway, is not historically civil service work.
    Not "historically" sure. But it is now - calling yourself the Crown Office is a pretty balls out admission of civil service status by the sound of it.

    You can arrest your serial killer but hold off charging him till after polling day

    Ironic that sks got his first big break by turning charging decision announcements into showbiz. Always despised him for that
    You can’t keep someone locked up for 6 weeks without charging them! You’d have to let the serial killer back out.
    The duty imposed on what is now the COPFS is not to disclose material that might prejudice the investigation or the prospects of a fair trial. So you won't get public statements about someone being charged that contain more than the very basic material of the age of the person charged and the charge they are facing. They will not disclose, for example, any of the evidence that formed the basis of that charge.

    Nicola, and other SNP politicians, have already been hiding behind an ongoing police investigation for more than 2 years.
    Unless they are innocent, in which case they have been pilloried on PB and elsewhere for more than two years, unable to defend themselves.
    A blind man can see the truth and it did not take 3 years to work it out. The money is gone and only a very few had access or could see the transactions.
    SNP being skint is going to be a factor this election surely?
    They used to send a van round the estates with a megaphone. Everyone would take the opportunity to cut the grass.
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,517
    ydoethur said:

    I guess British politics could be a lot worse.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/27/india-elections-pm-narendra-modi-claims-he-has-been-chosen-by-god

    “I am convinced that ‘Parmatma’ (God) sent me for a purpose. Once the purpose is achieved, my work will be one done. This is why I have completely dedicated myself to God."

    “When my mother was alive, I used to believe that I was born biologically. After she passed away, upon reflecting on all my experiences, I was convinced that God had sent me.”

    There's no Messiah there. There's a messed up person all right, but no Messiah.
    Or a very naughty boy....
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,867
    Nigelb said:

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    Quite like the national tea time idea. And it would really wind up the Nats.
    I think it would wind up anybody wanting to interact with any service at 4pm.

    "Hello. This is 999. Your call is important to us. We are currently drinking tea and will resume taking calls in. TWELVE. minutes. If you are bleeding from an aorta, please direct the blood flow away from your telephone headset so your call doesn't get accidentally cut off." [Musak version of Rolling Stone Let It Bleed plays]
    That would at least reduce pressure on the NHS.

    Now on to the Tory expertise in robotics.
    I think I've seen that episode of Black Mirror
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,190
    European countries are getting serious.

    Spain is set to announce a new massive 1.13 billion Euro ($1.23 billion) military aid package for Ukraine.

    The package will include roughly 12 additional PATRIOT interceptors, 19 Leopard 2A4s, and a large number of additional systems procured from the Spanish defense industry.

    https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1794986685085757806

    No longer are they just sending obsolete kit from reserves:
    "..Most of the funding will go to Spanish companies to procure new equipment for Ukraine.."
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 13,112
    Morning all :)

    Early skirmishes so far in the GE campaign - the pace will quicken at the beginning of June and from then on it'll ratchet up to July 4th.

    Every time I hear a new Conservative "idea" my thought process is "you've led the Government for 14 years - you've had all that time to bring this in - why haven't you? Could it be because it's not a very good idea?". It's difficult, after 14 years, to sound fresh, new and different and there's only so many re-launches you can do in Government - three or four so far?

    It may be that, as with the party in 1997 and Labour in 2010, there's nothing left and they've run out of road. Intellectual exhaustion going hand-in-hand with the sense of the inevitability of defeat isn't a good mix for rational thought - it's ideal for desperation and ill thought out half plans.

    There will be those, for whom the prospect of a Labour Government is anathema, who will lap all this up because the "fear" of a Labour Government is that powerful, whether this comes from propaganda, familial memory or personal experience.

    As an aside, I don't get involved much with social media but I know a lot of the campaign is now fought on the various platforms. The extent to which this actually moves voters or whether it re-enforces the echo chambers I don't know. I'd put as much faith in WhatsApp anecdotes as I do on reports from canvassers - none at all.

    We need some decent regional and constituency polling - the sub samples from national polls are too small to be meaningful. Is London, for example, going to vote in line with the Mayoral election or the GLA contests?

  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,947
    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    National Tea Time. Excellent. Made me LOL.
    The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
    Is cake the right idea at a time of record obesity?

    Cake inflation is currently running at 24.7%.
    Good point, cake is a terrible idea. Bakewell tart for me.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 77,784
    Nigelb said:

    European countries are getting serious.

    Spain is set to announce a new massive 1.13 billion Euro ($1.23 billion) military aid package for Ukraine.

    The package will include roughly 12 additional PATRIOT interceptors, 19 Leopard 2A4s, and a large number of additional systems procured from the Spanish defense industry.

    https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1794986685085757806

    No longer are they just sending obsolete kit from reserves:
    "..Most of the funding will go to Spanish companies to procure new equipment for Ukraine.."

    War, what is it good for absolutely nothing domestic arms manufacturers....
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,873

    I guess British politics could be a lot worse.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/27/india-elections-pm-narendra-modi-claims-he-has-been-chosen-by-god

    “I am convinced that ‘Parmatma’ (God) sent me for a purpose. Once the purpose is achieved, my work will be one done. This is why I have completely dedicated myself to God."

    “When my mother was alive, I used to believe that I was born biologically. After she passed away, upon reflecting on all my experiences, I was convinced that God had sent me.”

    Extraordinary, even for India.

    South Africa votes this week. It looks likely to be the end of the ANC majority.

    The EFF look to get 48 seats. Their manifesto would make Mao blush.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,947
    O/T what happened to Leon's imminent 'worse than the Panama Papers' kaboom from a week ago? Did I miss it?
  • Options
    MJWMJW Posts: 1,503

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    She does not suggest that. The journalist suggests that and she gives a non-answer that avoids commenting on the suggestion. As the tweet says, she doesn’t rule it out.
    She's not ruling it out though - which is apparently contemplating it as an option - otherwise you do what James Cleverly did in saying unequivocally won't be jailing people.

    It was her who compared it to being compelled to attend school - for which you *are* prosecuted if your child fails to. That's how it works in terms of enforcement among those who refuse repeatedly to comply. Entirely fair for a journalist to take that at face value and say if that's what you're saying you'll be prosecuting parents.

    Obviously they're not going to end up *doing it* as it's completely bonkers. But it shows what a shambles they are in on enforcement of the 'mandatory' element of this.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,386

    O/T what happened to Leon's imminent 'worse than the Panama Papers' kaboom from a week ago? Did I miss it?

    Ah. Maybe that was why an election was called.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,295
    Nigelb said:

    European countries are getting serious.

    Spain is set to announce a new massive 1.13 billion Euro ($1.23 billion) military aid package for Ukraine.

    The package will include roughly 12 additional PATRIOT interceptors, 19 Leopard 2A4s, and a large number of additional systems procured from the Spanish defense industry.

    https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1794986685085757806

    No longer are they just sending obsolete kit from reserves:
    "..Most of the funding will go to Spanish companies to procure new equipment for Ukraine.."

    A Patriot battery is $1bn each so I presume that's 12 missiles. It'll all be over by Xmas.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 13,112
    My early thoughts as follows:

    Reform will do best in areas of Conservative strength - whether it will be enough to cost the Conservatives seats remains to be seen.

    The LDs will do poorly in most areas but very well in their targets though in some the rising Labour tide may help the Conservatives hang on.

    Labour will win some seats from third place.

    The Conservatives will do unexpectedly well in a few places - we've seen in the locals a few areas of core strength which resisted the Labour onslaught - Walsall, Dartford, Dudley (to a point), parts of Outer Suburban London. This may be down to hard working local MPs who disassociate themselves from the national party.

    The Conservatives will do unexpectedly badly in other areas.

    We could see swings in individual seats of up to 25%.

    I leave Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland to others though the last named could be particularly interesting. It would be nice to see regional polling.

    There's a long way to go and nothing is certain.

    I have plenty more platitudes from where these originated.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,327
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    European countries are getting serious.

    Spain is set to announce a new massive 1.13 billion Euro ($1.23 billion) military aid package for Ukraine.

    The package will include roughly 12 additional PATRIOT interceptors, 19 Leopard 2A4s, and a large number of additional systems procured from the Spanish defense industry.

    https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1794986685085757806

    No longer are they just sending obsolete kit from reserves:
    "..Most of the funding will go to Spanish companies to procure new equipment for Ukraine.."

    A Patriot battery is $1bn each so I presume that's 12 missiles. It'll all be over by Xmas.
    You think the Russians are so far gone just 12 missiles will finish them off?
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,312

    O/T what happened to Leon's imminent 'worse than the Panama Papers' kaboom from a week ago? Did I miss it?

    Did Leon ever divulge what Finland was all about?
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,197
    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    National Tea Time. Excellent. Made me LOL.
    The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
    My 2 favourite cakes. You've got my vote.
    I thought Dundee cake would be your thing?
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,351
    @Steven_Swinford
    A minister has said that the Conservative's new national service scheme was 'sprung on' MPs and candidates without consultation

    Steve Baker, an NI minister, said that the policy 'was developed by a political adviser or advisers and sprung on candidates, some of whom are relevant ministers'
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 6,330
    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.

    Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,351
    @implausibleblog

    2021: Boris Johnson says we're changing direction to a high wage economy

    2024: Rachel Johnson says she likes unpaid National Service because we haven't got enough people to pick our fruit

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1794716707631792271
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    @implausibleblog

    2021: Boris Johnson says we're changing direction to a high wage economy

    2024: Rachel Johnson says she likes unpaid National Service because we haven't got enough people to pick our fruit

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1794716707631792271

    Rachel Johnson is the most pointless journalist there is. She just tells us what other Johnson would say with less bluster. It's as empty and vacuous as anything he says.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,947
    Scott_xP said:

    @Steven_Swinford
    A minister has said that the Conservative's new national service scheme was 'sprung on' MPs and candidates without consultation

    Steve Baker, an NI minister, said that the policy 'was developed by a political adviser or advisers and sprung on candidates, some of whom are relevant ministers'

    Not according to @Taz:
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @alexwickham

    James Cleverly immediately rows back on the compulsory nature of the National Service idea

    No criminal sanction if people don’t want to do it, he tells Sky

    @rafaelbehr

    So they've u-turned already or they lied in the press briefing?

    @jonsopel

    It’s almost as though this policy hasn’t been properly thought through and has been written on back of a fag packet (now that cigs aren’t going to be banned)

    IANAE but inventing a new policy on the spur of the moment might be a risky game to play.
    But it hasn’t been. It has been in development a while. William Hague has been involved in crafting it.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 11,107
    edited May 27

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    National Tea Time. Excellent. Made me LOL.
    The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
    Is cake the right idea at a time of record obesity?

    Cake inflation is currently running at 24.7%.
    Good point, cake is a terrible idea. Bakewell tart for me.
    This could be the first major split in the new party that will have to be formed to fill the centre right gap after the election. The Bakewell Faction v the Victoria Sponges.
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,487
    edited May 27
    MJW said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    She does not suggest that. The journalist suggests that and she gives a non-answer that avoids commenting on the suggestion. As the tweet says, she doesn’t rule it out.
    She's not ruling it out though - which is apparently contemplating it as an option - otherwise you do what James Cleverly did in saying unequivocally won't be jailing people.

    It was her who compared it to being compelled to attend school - for which you *are* prosecuted if your child fails to. That's how it works in terms of enforcement among those who refuse repeatedly to comply. Entirely fair for a journalist to take that at face value and say if that's what you're saying you'll be prosecuting parents.

    Obviously they're not going to end up *doing it* as it's completely bonkers. But it shows what a shambles they are in on enforcement of the 'mandatory' element of this.
    I’m genuinely interested to see next week’s polling, which I assume will have some specific questions on this idea.

    While us nerds have (with justification) quite quickly ripped the idea to shreds, actual normal people who just glance at the headlines may not see it for the ill-conceived electoral hail-Mary that a few minutes scrutiny reveals it to be. And as such, it may have a passing appeal.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,947
    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    National Tea Time. Excellent. Made me LOL.
    The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
    Is cake the right idea at a time of record obesity?

    Cake inflation is currently running at 24.7%.
    Good point, cake is a terrible idea. Bakewell tart for me.
    This could be the first major split in the new party that will have to be formed to fill the centre right gap after the election. The Bakewell Faction v the Victoria Sponges.
    I've always had a soft spot for tarts tbf.
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,333
    megasaur said:

    Don't purdah rules preclude civil servants from taking politically sensitive actions during the campaign?

    Campaign hasn't started yet.
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,487

    O/T what happened to Leon's imminent 'worse than the Panama Papers' kaboom from a week ago? Did I miss it?

    Did Leon ever divulge what Finland was all about?
    I think we know what it was all about.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,625
    Foxy said:

    I guess British politics could be a lot worse.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/27/india-elections-pm-narendra-modi-claims-he-has-been-chosen-by-god

    “I am convinced that ‘Parmatma’ (God) sent me for a purpose. Once the purpose is achieved, my work will be one done. This is why I have completely dedicated myself to God."

    “When my mother was alive, I used to believe that I was born biologically. After she passed away, upon reflecting on all my experiences, I was convinced that God had sent me.”

    Extraordinary, even for India.

    South Africa votes this week. It looks likely to be the end of the ANC majority.

    The EFF look to get 48 seats. Their manifesto would make Mao blush.
    In most democracies at most times that sort of nonsense would get you kicked out and laughed at but it ses Modi has hit upon the golden narrative for establishing a job for life:

    - Establish democratic support and win an election
    - (Crucially) preside over strong economic growth in your first few years, in contrast to what came before. That locks in the support
    - Gradually ratchet up the authoritarian control, weaponising cultural tensions

    It’s the Erdogan route. First few years in power saw strong economic growth after the preceding chaos. That’s how Putin established credibility too. And of course Mussolini made the trains run on time.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,482
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    Quite like the national tea time idea. And it would really wind up the Nats.
    Not at all - all one needs is Abernethy biscuits and raspberry jam.
    Blackberry for me Carnyx, these boys have febrile imaginations of what upsets Independence supporters. They are rather scared of the idea.
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,487
    Tres said:

    megasaur said:

    Don't purdah rules preclude civil servants from taking politically sensitive actions during the campaign?

    Campaign hasn't started yet.
    True, but pre-election period will have started from prorogation, and there are general rules about civil servants (particularly senior ones) taking political actions at any time.
  • Options
    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,013

    Eabhal said:

    Morning all. Off to do some non-compulsory volunteering...

    It doesn't count if you enjoy it.

    The latest research suggests even the pyramids didn't require compulsory volunteering.
    Yay - Kant early on a Bank Holiday morning. Doing a good turn is of no moral worth if you enjoy doing it.
    So, when I find an errant shopping trolley on my way to the local supermarket, I should not return it?
    This is about the limit of my "do-goodery" these days.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 6,330

    Heathener said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.

    Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
    The last Labour government who tried to introduce detention without charge for 90 days.
    Is that much worse / different from the current Government’s (now failed) ban on any protest that is deemed ‘not minor’? With the implication that you can be banged up for protesting against just about anything? Genuine questions, not being facetious.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,844
    Trevelyan says there will be a "competitive process to join the military for a year's commission".

    Commission, eh.

    Either the minister doesn't understand the policy she is announcing or the country's officers' messes are about to undergo the most almighty upheaval.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,387

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    National Tea Time. Excellent. Made me LOL.
    It will probably turn out to be Compulsory National Tea Time.
  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,404

    ydoethur said:

    I think there are some very interesting bets on Scottish constituencies.

    The SNP have sunk by a lot more than the Tories.

    Could that see seats such as Ayr and Aberdeen South come into play for the Tories? Or will they leak so many votes to Labour that it's irrelevant?
    Ayr looks a three way, the higher Lab go the more likely it becomes a Lab/SNP fight. Perthshire is one to watch. Aberdeen South interesting as is Angus and Argyll and Bute
    Oh God, we’re back to the days of people ramping a Tory revival in Scotland. I’ll be surprised if they don’t net lose seats. All evidence is that they are almost as unpopular in Scotland as the SNP.
  • Options
    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,013
    Heathener said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.

    Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
    Have Labour dropped the "Gulags For Slags" policy?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,482
    Foxy said:

    malcolmg said:

    Eabhal said:

    DavidL said:

    megasaur said:

    DougSeal said:

    megasaur said:

    Don't purdah rules preclude civil servants from taking politically sensitive actions during the campaign?

    It would be mad if that applied to prosecutors. Taking to its absurd extreme, if a member of the cabinet was suspected of being a serial killer during a campaign, the idea that the prosecution should hold off charging until the election would be a little dangerous.

    I don’t know the history in Scotland but the Met Police used to instruct solicitors and attorneys (there were such things in England back then) in private practice to draw up indictments. They took the work in house eventually before it was spun out again to the CPS in the 80s. So the work itself, down here anyway, is not historically civil service work.
    Not "historically" sure. But it is now - calling yourself the Crown Office is a pretty balls out admission of civil service status by the sound of it.

    You can arrest your serial killer but hold off charging him till after polling day

    Ironic that sks got his first big break by turning charging decision announcements into showbiz. Always despised him for that
    You can’t keep someone locked up for 6 weeks without charging them! You’d have to let the serial killer back out.
    The duty imposed on what is now the COPFS is not to disclose material that might prejudice the investigation or the prospects of a fair trial. So you won't get public statements about someone being charged that contain more than the very basic material of the age of the person charged and the charge they are facing. They will not disclose, for example, any of the evidence that formed the basis of that charge.

    Nicola, and other SNP politicians, have already been hiding behind an ongoing police investigation for more than 2 years.
    Unless they are innocent, in which case they have been pilloried on PB and elsewhere for more than two years, unable to defend themselves.
    A blind man can see the truth and it did not take 3 years to work it out. The money is gone and only a very few had access or could see the transactions.
    SNP being skint is going to be a factor this election surely?
    Their begging online is going well , saw Gethings was at £46 and Sheppard at £70. Money rolling in.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,390
    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    National Tea Time. Excellent. Made me LOL.
    The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
    Is cake the right idea at a time of record obesity?

    Cake inflation is currently running at 24.7%.
    Good point, cake is a terrible idea. Bakewell tart for me.
    This could be the first major split in the new party that will have to be formed to fill the centre right gap after the election. The Bakewell Faction v the Victoria Sponges.
    Would the Bakewell faction split into pudding and tart wings ?
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,239
    Ghedebrav said:

    MJW said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    She does not suggest that. The journalist suggests that and she gives a non-answer that avoids commenting on the suggestion. As the tweet says, she doesn’t rule it out.
    She's not ruling it out though - which is apparently contemplating it as an option - otherwise you do what James Cleverly did in saying unequivocally won't be jailing people.

    It was her who compared it to being compelled to attend school - for which you *are* prosecuted if your child fails to. That's how it works in terms of enforcement among those who refuse repeatedly to comply. Entirely fair for a journalist to take that at face value and say if that's what you're saying you'll be prosecuting parents.

    Obviously they're not going to end up *doing it* as it's completely bonkers. But it shows what a shambles they are in on enforcement of the 'mandatory' element of this.
    I’m genuinely interested to see next week’s polling, which I assume will have some specific questions on this idea.

    While us nerds have (with justification) quite quickly ripped the idea to shreds, actual normal people who just glance at the headlines may not see it for the ill-conceived electoral hail-Mary that a few minutes scrutiny reveals it to be. And as such, it may have a passing appeal.
    There was some polling in 2005(?) about the Conservative manifesto. Ask people about the policies, they were petty popular. Ask people about them as Conservative policies, and they weren't.

    Vibes matter, and the vibes around Rishi are horrible.
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,333

    O/T what happened to Leon's imminent 'worse than the Panama Papers' kaboom from a week ago? Did I miss it?

    Ah. Maybe that was why an election was called.
    FIle with the Finland incident.
  • Options
    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,851

    Eabhal said:

    Morning all. Off to do some non-compulsory volunteering...

    It doesn't count if you enjoy it.

    The latest research suggests even the pyramids didn't require compulsory volunteering.
    Yay - Kant early on a Bank Holiday morning. Doing a good turn is of no moral worth if you enjoy doing it.
    So, when I find an errant shopping trolley on my way to the local supermarket, I should not return it?
    This is about the limit of my "do-goodery" these days.
    Alan, I'm sure others have mentioned it too, but congratulations on being the only entrant in Ben's Excellent Competition to predict correctly the date of the GE.

    How does it feel to be a front-runner?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,844
    Plus not that I'm channeling Casino or anything but sometimes PB does spout arrant bollocks.

    It has to be chocolate fudge and, yes fine, coffee and walnut.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,482

    Scott_xP said:

    @Steven_Swinford
    A minister has said that the Conservative's new national service scheme was 'sprung on' MPs and candidates without consultation

    Steve Baker, an NI minister, said that the policy 'was developed by a political adviser or advisers and sprung on candidates, some of whom are relevant ministers'

    Not according to @Taz:
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @alexwickham

    James Cleverly immediately rows back on the compulsory nature of the National Service idea

    No criminal sanction if people don’t want to do it, he tells Sky

    @rafaelbehr

    So they've u-turned already or they lied in the press briefing?

    @jonsopel

    It’s almost as though this policy hasn’t been properly thought through and has been written on back of a fag packet (now that cigs aren’t going to be banned)

    IANAE but inventing a new policy on the spur of the moment might be a risky game to play.
    But it hasn’t been. It has been in development a while. William Hague has been involved in crafting it.
    Sounds like the crap Vague would come up with for sure.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,239

    Ghedebrav said:

    MJW said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    She does not suggest that. The journalist suggests that and she gives a non-answer that avoids commenting on the suggestion. As the tweet says, she doesn’t rule it out.
    She's not ruling it out though - which is apparently contemplating it as an option - otherwise you do what James Cleverly did in saying unequivocally won't be jailing people.

    It was her who compared it to being compelled to attend school - for which you *are* prosecuted if your child fails to. That's how it works in terms of enforcement among those who refuse repeatedly to comply. Entirely fair for a journalist to take that at face value and say if that's what you're saying you'll be prosecuting parents.

    Obviously they're not going to end up *doing it* as it's completely bonkers. But it shows what a shambles they are in on enforcement of the 'mandatory' element of this.
    I’m genuinely interested to see next week’s polling, which I assume will have some specific questions on this idea.

    While us nerds have (with justification) quite quickly ripped the idea to shreds, actual normal people who just glance at the headlines may not see it for the ill-conceived electoral hail-Mary that a few minutes scrutiny reveals it to be. And as such, it may have a passing appeal.
    There was some polling in 2005(?) about the Conservative manifesto. Ask people about the policies, they were petty popular. Ask people about them as Conservative policies, and they weren't.

    Vibes matter, and the vibes around Rishi are horrible.
    ETA: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4266155.stm
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,113
    Good morning PB.

    SNP crashing in Scotland

    Tories crashing in England.

    FPTP will once again prove what it gives it can just as easily take away...
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,947
    edited May 27
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Steven_Swinford
    A minister has said that the Conservative's new national service scheme was 'sprung on' MPs and candidates without consultation

    Steve Baker, an NI minister, said that the policy 'was developed by a political adviser or advisers and sprung on candidates, some of whom are relevant ministers'

    Not according to @Taz:
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @alexwickham

    James Cleverly immediately rows back on the compulsory nature of the National Service idea

    No criminal sanction if people don’t want to do it, he tells Sky

    @rafaelbehr

    So they've u-turned already or they lied in the press briefing?

    @jonsopel

    It’s almost as though this policy hasn’t been properly thought through and has been written on back of a fag packet (now that cigs aren’t going to be banned)

    IANAE but inventing a new policy on the spur of the moment might be a risky game to play.
    But it hasn’t been. It has been in development a while. William Hague has been involved in crafting it.
    Sounds like the crap Vague would come up with for sure.
    I thought you were all for compelling today's feckless youth to do time polishing boots and marching around parade grounds?
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,390

    Scott_xP said:

    @implausibleblog

    2021: Boris Johnson says we're changing direction to a high wage economy

    2024: Rachel Johnson says she likes unpaid National Service because we haven't got enough people to pick our fruit

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1794716707631792271

    Rachel Johnson is the most pointless journalist there is. She just tells us what other Johnson would say with less bluster. It's as empty and vacuous as anything he says.
    She often disagrees with Big Bro Boris in order to get herself a few seconds of publicity.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 6,330

    Heathener said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.

    Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
    Have Labour dropped the "Gulags For Slags" policy?
    I don’t know what your question means?

    But I’m not the one to answer questions on a Labour manifesto anyway. I doubt I’ll get around to reading theirs, or those of any other party, in full tbh.

    But I’m inferring that you and TSE don’t think the last Labour Gov’t, by which I take it you mean Gordon Brown’s, was very libertarian either?

    I think socially they were. A raft of good reforms that brought much-needed advances.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,351
    @DPJHodges

    In every election Labour have a key problem. 68% of voters in the 18-24 age bracket support the party. But only 47% of those in that age bracket actually vote. The Tory's national service policy has gone some way to solving that.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,482

    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    National Tea Time. Excellent. Made me LOL.
    The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
    My 2 favourite cakes. You've got my vote.
    I thought Dundee cake would be your thing?
    A dyed in the wool unionist , don't be silly, he mimics the colonial masters in London. Tea at 4pm with a picture of the latest inbred and a union jack proudly displayed on the wall and God save the Inbred intoned before supping.
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,591
    edited May 27
    Heathener said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.

    Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
    Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future (though apparently not war crimes).

    Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,482
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    European countries are getting serious.

    Spain is set to announce a new massive 1.13 billion Euro ($1.23 billion) military aid package for Ukraine.

    The package will include roughly 12 additional PATRIOT interceptors, 19 Leopard 2A4s, and a large number of additional systems procured from the Spanish defense industry.

    https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1794986685085757806

    No longer are they just sending obsolete kit from reserves:
    "..Most of the funding will go to Spanish companies to procure new equipment for Ukraine.."

    A Patriot battery is $1bn each so I presume that's 12 missiles. It'll all be over by Xmas.
    It said interceptors ( ie missiles ) which I hardly think are $1 billion each , imagined you would have known the difference.
  • Options
    megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586
    Tres said:

    megasaur said:

    Don't purdah rules preclude civil servants from taking politically sensitive actions during the campaign?

    Campaign hasn't started yet.
    In what sense?
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 6,330
    megasaur said:

    Fishing said:

    Heathener said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.

    Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
    Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future.

    Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
    He actually *did* introduce indefinite prison sentences, which people are still serving. As outrageous to me as blood and Post office scandals. And of course if we get an inquiry it will be decades late and no help for those who have committed suicide in prison
    Oh I see.

    Well just confirms many of my views on Tony Blair, which I’ve made no secret about on here. I disliked him then and I dislike him now.

    I marched against the war in Iraq, standing right behind someone called Jeremy Corbyn.

    Bloody proud I did too.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,312

    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    National Tea Time. Excellent. Made me LOL.
    The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
    My 2 favourite cakes. You've got my vote.
    I thought Dundee cake would be your thing?
    Dundee cake, Churchill's favourite.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,295
    Heathener said:

    megasaur said:

    Fishing said:

    Heathener said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.

    Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
    Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future.

    Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
    He actually *did* introduce indefinite prison sentences, which people are still serving. As outrageous to me as blood and Post office scandals. And of course if we get an inquiry it will be decades late and no help for those who have committed suicide in prison
    Oh I see.

    Well just confirms many of my views on Tony Blair, which I’ve made no secret about on here. I disliked him then and I dislike him now.

    I marched against the war in Iraq, standing right behind someone called Jeremy Corbyn.

    How was the smell? Hummus and Voltarol?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,038
    Fishing said:

    Heathener said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.

    Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
    Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future (though apparently not war crimes).

    Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
    People have forgotten what a Labour government means. Because it's been over 14 years.

    Many are not going to like it.

    When they reme
  • Options
    One Downing Street insider called the 61- year-old Labour leader "Sleepy Keir", an apparent attempt to link him in the public's mind to the US's 81-year-old President Joe Biden, dubbed "Sleepy Joe" by Donald Trump. "Campaigns are tough, tiring things and it's understandable that he may be weary," said a Tory campaign official. "But being prime minister is a 24/7 job which requires stamina."

    https://x.com/JamesFitzJourno/status/1795015985461653708/photo/1
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 6,330
    edited May 27
    I do recommend that piece on Keir Starmer in yesterday’s Sunday Times.

    I suspect very few people on here really know the man. You won’t be massively enlightened after reading it but that’s part of the point. It explains something about the enigmatic figure.

    I’m not massively enthused about Starmer but personally I’m extremely glad he’s not another charismatic. I’m sick and tired of being led by people like that who seem to cause us nothing but trouble (Blair, Cameron, Clegg, Boris, Truss).

    I just want a leader who is competent and safe.
  • Options
    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,071

    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    National Tea Time. Excellent. Made me LOL.
    The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
    My 2 favourite cakes. You've got my vote.
    I thought Dundee cake would be your thing?
    Dundee cake, Churchill's favourite.
    The only Dundee I expect in this campaign is "dun dun dun, dundee dun, dundee dun" as the Death Starmer obliterates Sunak.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,482

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Steven_Swinford
    A minister has said that the Conservative's new national service scheme was 'sprung on' MPs and candidates without consultation

    Steve Baker, an NI minister, said that the policy 'was developed by a political adviser or advisers and sprung on candidates, some of whom are relevant ministers'

    Not according to @Taz:
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @alexwickham

    James Cleverly immediately rows back on the compulsory nature of the National Service idea

    No criminal sanction if people don’t want to do it, he tells Sky

    @rafaelbehr

    So they've u-turned already or they lied in the press briefing?

    @jonsopel

    It’s almost as though this policy hasn’t been properly thought through and has been written on back of a fag packet (now that cigs aren’t going to be banned)

    IANAE but inventing a new policy on the spur of the moment might be a risky game to play.
    But it hasn’t been. It has been in development a while. William Hague has been involved in crafting it.
    Sounds like the crap Vague would come up with for sure.
    I thought you were all for compelling today's feckless youth to do time polishing boots and marching around parade grounds?
    I would make the b*ggers work. Get them out sweeping the streets, picking up litter , getting chewing gum off pavements, painting graffiti and helping old ladies across the street. 8 am - 5pm with 30 minutes for lunch. Pay retired soldiers to ensure disciplne and no slacking.
    No cushy billets.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 6,330
    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:

    megasaur said:

    Fishing said:

    Heathener said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.

    Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
    Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future.

    Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
    He actually *did* introduce indefinite prison sentences, which people are still serving. As outrageous to me as blood and Post office scandals. And of course if we get an inquiry it will be decades late and no help for those who have committed suicide in prison
    Oh I see.

    Well just confirms many of my views on Tony Blair, which I’ve made no secret about on here. I disliked him then and I dislike him now.

    I marched against the war in Iraq, standing right behind someone called Jeremy Corbyn.

    How was the smell? Hummus and Voltarol?
    He was a lot less famous back then so I didn’t really take much notice. George Galloway was also in front of me which I keep more quiet about. But at least even I could see over the top.
  • Options
    megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586
    LOL

    As is my infantile habit I checked in to a shooting range in the US in January to blast away with a Glock for an hour, just had an email offering $50 off when I buy $250 of ammunition as a Memorial Day special. It's what they would have wanted.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,030

    Heathener said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.

    Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
    The last Labour government who tried to introduce detention without charge for 90 days.
    If the Tories hadn't opposed it, Steve Bray could be safely banged up in Wandsworth until after the election.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,986
    edited May 27

    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    National Tea Time. Excellent. Made me LOL.
    The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
    My 2 favourite cakes. You've got my vote.
    I thought Dundee cake would be your thing?
    Dundee cake is fine but Victoria sponge well made with a slightly tart jam to offset the sweetness of the cream and coffee and walnut are simply divine. @algarkirk is a man of excellent taste and judgment.
  • Options
    Did the Tories not support detention without charge?

    I just can't support such a policy, innocent until proven guilty. Always.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,986
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    National Tea Time. Excellent. Made me LOL.
    The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
    My 2 favourite cakes. You've got my vote.
    I thought Dundee cake would be your thing?
    A dyed in the wool unionist , don't be silly, he mimics the colonial masters in London. Tea at 4pm with a picture of the latest inbred and a union jack proudly displayed on the wall and God save the Inbred intoned before supping.
    You been hacking my Siri again Malcolm?
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 6,330

    Heathener said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.

    Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
    The last Labour government who tried to introduce detention without charge for 90 days.
    If the Tories hadn't opposed it, Steve Bray could be safely banged up in Wandsworth until after the election.
    Chilling

    Funny how we’ll happily silence a guy with a megaphone but when privileged Etonian Dave Cameron tries to ban the publication of a book exposing him over his Greenshill stench it raises not a murmur on here.

    Greenshill should cause outrage. And if you know about it you’d not think so highly of Cameron again.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,312
    SKS is on his hind legs.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUab-oMShEY (and other channels)

    He makes a lousy speaker.
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    boulayboulay Posts: 4,625
    Heathener said:

    megasaur said:

    Fishing said:

    Heathener said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.

    Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
    Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future.

    Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
    He actually *did* introduce indefinite prison sentences, which people are still serving. As outrageous to me as blood and Post office scandals. And of course if we get an inquiry it will be decades late and no help for those who have committed suicide in prison
    Oh I see.

    Well just confirms many of my views on Tony Blair, which I’ve made no secret about on here. I disliked him then and I dislike him now.

    I marched against the war in Iraq, standing right behind someone called Jeremy Corbyn.

    Bloody proud I did too.
    Cool story. Are you the one on the left or the right?


  • Options
    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,013

    One Downing Street insider called the 61- year-old Labour leader "Sleepy Keir", an apparent attempt to link him in the public's mind to the US's 81-year-old President Joe Biden, dubbed "Sleepy Joe" by Donald Trump. "Campaigns are tough, tiring things and it's understandable that he may be weary," said a Tory campaign official. "But being prime minister is a 24/7 job which requires stamina."

    https://x.com/JamesFitzJourno/status/1795015985461653708/photo/1

    They're getting their attack lines from Doctor Who now?
    "Don't you think she looks tired?"
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 6,330
    edited May 27
    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    megasaur said:

    Fishing said:

    Heathener said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.

    Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
    Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future.

    Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
    He actually *did* introduce indefinite prison sentences, which people are still serving. As outrageous to me as blood and Post office scandals. And of course if we get an inquiry it will be decades late and no help for those who have committed suicide in prison
    Oh I see.

    Well just confirms many of my views on Tony Blair, which I’ve made no secret about on here. I disliked him then and I dislike him now.

    I marched against the war in Iraq, standing right behind someone called Jeremy Corbyn.

    Bloody proud I did too.
    Cool story. Are you the one on the left or the right?


    Haha excellent!

    There were, iirc, 3 anti Iraq war marches? I think mine was the 15th Feb one. Keep digging around and there’s a vague possibility you’ll find me.

    Young and gorgeous, obvs ;)
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,986

    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    National Tea Time. Excellent. Made me LOL.
    The tea at 4pm proposal is fairly sound, but it needs a R4 Today gotcha interview about whether this is enforced by custodial sentences are merely a fine. There is also the question of how to afford two sorts of cake (Victoria sponge and coffee and walnut for me please) what with the cost of living and all that.
    My 2 favourite cakes. You've got my vote.
    I thought Dundee cake would be your thing?
    Dundee cake, Churchill's favourite.
    The only Dundee I expect in this campaign is "dun dun dun, dundee dun, dundee dun" as the Death Starmer obliterates Sunak.
    Don't be silly. Darth Vader is not even SKS's father.
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    Clutch_BromptonClutch_Brompton Posts: 552

    Ghedebrav said:

    MJW said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    She does not suggest that. The journalist suggests that and she gives a non-answer that avoids commenting on the suggestion. As the tweet says, she doesn’t rule it out.
    She's not ruling it out though - which is apparently contemplating it as an option - otherwise you do what James Cleverly did in saying unequivocally won't be jailing people.

    It was her who compared it to being compelled to attend school - for which you *are* prosecuted if your child fails to. That's how it works in terms of enforcement among those who refuse repeatedly to comply. Entirely fair for a journalist to take that at face value and say if that's what you're saying you'll be prosecuting parents.

    Obviously they're not going to end up *doing it* as it's completely bonkers. But it shows what a shambles they are in on enforcement of the 'mandatory' element of this.
    I’m genuinely interested to see next week’s polling, which I assume will have some specific questions on this idea.

    While us nerds have (with justification) quite quickly ripped the idea to shreds, actual normal people who just glance at the headlines may not see it for the ill-conceived electoral hail-Mary that a few minutes scrutiny reveals it to be. And as such, it may have a passing appeal.
    There was some polling in 2005(?) about the Conservative manifesto. Ask people about the policies, they were petty popular. Ask people about them as Conservative policies, and they weren't.

    Vibes matter, and the vibes around Rishi are horrible.
    Its notable that the only thing that the public have approved of was his calling the election (aka resigning).
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,984
    Fishing said:

    Heathener said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.

    Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
    Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future (though apparently not war crimes).

    Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
    Blair and New Labour definitely had some authoritarian tendencies. Personally I wouldn't put ID cards in there with the rest of that list...

    I'm more optimistic about Starmer. He's been a human rights lawyer and will have seen a lot of miscarriages of justice. But my worry is that he is so desperate to win, that he may feel he has to act tough and compromise his principles.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,986

    SKS is on his hind legs.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUab-oMShEY (and other channels)

    He makes a lousy speaker.

    ...look good.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,453

    Did the Tories not support detention without charge?

    I just can't support such a policy, innocent until proven guilty. Always.

    They opposed it at 90 days and 56 days.
  • Options
    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,013
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.

    Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
    Have Labour dropped the "Gulags For Slags" policy?
    I don’t know what your question means?

    But I’m not the one to answer questions on a Labour manifesto anyway. I doubt I’ll get around to reading theirs, or those of any other party, in full tbh.

    But I’m inferring that you and TSE don’t think the last Labour Gov’t, by which I take it you mean Gordon Brown’s, was very libertarian either?

    I think socially they were. A raft of good reforms that brought much-needed advances.
    Gordon Brown at one point suggested "From now on all 16- and 17-year-old parents who get support from the taxpayer will be placed in a network of supervised homes. "
  • Options
    MJWMJW Posts: 1,503

    One Downing Street insider called the 61- year-old Labour leader "Sleepy Keir", an apparent attempt to link him in the public's mind to the US's 81-year-old President Joe Biden, dubbed "Sleepy Joe" by Donald Trump. "Campaigns are tough, tiring things and it's understandable that he may be weary," said a Tory campaign official. "But being prime minister is a 24/7 job which requires stamina."

    https://x.com/JamesFitzJourno/status/1795015985461653708/photo/1

    They really are very bad at this, considering whatever you think of him Starmer looks a young 61, famously plays football every week and kind of looks like a Thunderbirds character gone slightly to seed.

    If it were Corbyn it would make sense, if still daft. But not here.

    Plus, what a way to insult the only people in the country still voting for you as past it.
  • Options

    Did the Tories not support detention without charge?

    I just can't support such a policy, innocent until proven guilty. Always.

    They opposed it at 90 days and 56 days.
    That's not opposed it full stop, is it?
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    MJW said:

    One Downing Street insider called the 61- year-old Labour leader "Sleepy Keir", an apparent attempt to link him in the public's mind to the US's 81-year-old President Joe Biden, dubbed "Sleepy Joe" by Donald Trump. "Campaigns are tough, tiring things and it's understandable that he may be weary," said a Tory campaign official. "But being prime minister is a 24/7 job which requires stamina."

    https://x.com/JamesFitzJourno/status/1795015985461653708/photo/1

    They really are very bad at this, considering whatever you think of him Starmer looks a young 61, famously plays football every week and kind of looks like a Thunderbirds character gone slightly to seed.

    If it were Corbyn it would make sense, if still daft. But not here.

    Plus, what a way to insult the only people in the country still voting for you as past it.
    I honestly think SKS is quite a sexy man. I say as a straight man.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,312
    DavidL said:

    SKS is on his hind legs.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUab-oMShEY (and other channels)

    He makes a lousy speaker.

    ...look good.
    LOL. The bit of flag on the Change logo looks upside down (presumably the graphic designer intended it to be top right but it looks bottom left).
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    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,013

    Eabhal said:

    Morning all. Off to do some non-compulsory volunteering...

    It doesn't count if you enjoy it.

    The latest research suggests even the pyramids didn't require compulsory volunteering.
    Yay - Kant early on a Bank Holiday morning. Doing a good turn is of no moral worth if you enjoy doing it.
    So, when I find an errant shopping trolley on my way to the local supermarket, I should not return it?
    This is about the limit of my "do-goodery" these days.
    Alan, I'm sure others have mentioned it too, but congratulations on being the only entrant in Ben's Excellent Competition to predict correctly the date of the GE.

    How does it feel to be a front-runner?
    To be honest, I had forgotten about that competition.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 6,330
    edited May 27
    rkrkrk said:

    Fishing said:

    Heathener said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.

    Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
    Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future (though apparently not war crimes).

    Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
    Blair and New Labour definitely had some authoritarian tendencies. Personally I wouldn't put ID cards in there with the rest of that list...

    I'm more optimistic about Starmer. He's been a human rights lawyer and will have seen a lot of miscarriages of justice. But my worry is that he is so desperate to win, that he may feel he has to act tough and compromise his principles.
    Yep exactly.

    I can’t really see someone who had a successful career as a human rights lawyer then suddenly banning them.

    What yesterday’s Sunday Times double piece said, which I now discover was similar to George Eaton’s New Statesman piece, is that Starmer does not follow ideology. He’s all about pragmatism.

    Well thank BLOODY goodness for that, I say!

    I am sick and bloody tired of stupid ideological politicians screwing up our lives. Give me some pragmatism and competence now, please.
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    SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 6,650

    Fishing said:

    Heathener said:

    MJW said:

    So we're at the stage of this National Service shambles where Tories are seriously suggesting parents are prosecuted over their adult children's refusal to do what they're told at the weekends by the state.

    I don't know, but it doesn't sound too conservative.

    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1794997416355041791

    This is the least libertarian Government of my lifetime.

    Not sure if anyone from left or right could disagree with that, even those a lot older than I?
    Blair tried to introduce ID cards, 90 day detention without trial and ASBOs. He was someone so sure that whatever the police do must be right that he voluntarily submitted his DNA to a database, presumably so they could catch him for a crime he committed in the future (though apparently not war crimes).

    Starmer will probably be even worse. He would probably still have us in lockdown as he opposed every measure to relax it.
    People have forgotten what a Labour government means. Because it's been over 14 years.

    Many are not going to like it.

    When they reme
    In reality, it was a pretty popular government for quite a long period until, as they all do, it made a series of mistakes and ran out of steam.

    I know it's standard practice to invent a little story about a predecessor administration being a total fiasco throughout - and it's an effective tactic too as, almost by definition, your opponent is at a low point in public esteem when they lose office. But it isn't terribly credible.
  • Options
    Clutch_BromptonClutch_Brompton Posts: 552

    Scott_xP said:

    @sharonodea

    I asked ChatGPT to suggest four completely mad ideas the UK’s Conservative Party could include in their manifesto.

    I fully expect to see at least one of these announced before the week is out.

    https://x.com/sharonodea/status/1794754014686711816

    That actually sounds quite good.
    Hang on - its nicked my idea of a colony on Mars. This is madness - AI is coming for all of us. Leon was RIGHT!
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,405

    MJW said:

    One Downing Street insider called the 61- year-old Labour leader "Sleepy Keir", an apparent attempt to link him in the public's mind to the US's 81-year-old President Joe Biden, dubbed "Sleepy Joe" by Donald Trump. "Campaigns are tough, tiring things and it's understandable that he may be weary," said a Tory campaign official. "But being prime minister is a 24/7 job which requires stamina."

    https://x.com/JamesFitzJourno/status/1795015985461653708/photo/1

    They really are very bad at this, considering whatever you think of him Starmer looks a young 61, famously plays football every week and kind of looks like a Thunderbirds character gone slightly to seed.

    If it were Corbyn it would make sense, if still daft. But not here.

    Plus, what a way to insult the only people in the country still voting for you as past it.
    I honestly think SKS is quite a sexy man. I say as a straight man.
    He’s got great hair and is quite handsome . He also looks like he could chop a few logs where as Sunak looks like he could barely lift a tin of beans .
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,189
    edited May 27
    Seeing as @Casino_Royale has openly admitted that he will be campaigning for the Conservative Party his posts are effectively @HYUFD style party political broadcasts
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 6,330
    The George Eaton piece on ‘What is Starmerism?’ *

    https://www.newstatesman.com/cover-story/2024/05/what-is-starmerism


    * I’m pretty sure Keir Starmer would loathe the idea of ‘Starmerism’. That’s exactly what he doesn’t stand for.
  • Options
    nico679 said:

    MJW said:

    One Downing Street insider called the 61- year-old Labour leader "Sleepy Keir", an apparent attempt to link him in the public's mind to the US's 81-year-old President Joe Biden, dubbed "Sleepy Joe" by Donald Trump. "Campaigns are tough, tiring things and it's understandable that he may be weary," said a Tory campaign official. "But being prime minister is a 24/7 job which requires stamina."

    https://x.com/JamesFitzJourno/status/1795015985461653708/photo/1

    They really are very bad at this, considering whatever you think of him Starmer looks a young 61, famously plays football every week and kind of looks like a Thunderbirds character gone slightly to seed.

    If it were Corbyn it would make sense, if still daft. But not here.

    Plus, what a way to insult the only people in the country still voting for you as past it.
    I honestly think SKS is quite a sexy man. I say as a straight man.
    He’s got great hair and is quite handsome . He also looks like he could chop a few logs where as Sunak looks like he could barely lift a tin of beans .
    Brilliant
This discussion has been closed.