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The pressure could be back on Sunak – politicalbetting.com

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  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @LibDems

    Those local election results in full 😉


    We’ve still brexited. And it will never change. Sorry
    You’re right. We cannot change what happened on 31 January 2020. However we can and will rejoin. Sorry. But do keep posting the holiday snaps. They’re super fun!
    Do you think Starmer will put a commitment to a second referendum in the next Labour manifesto?
    No. It will take a bit longer than that. I think we’ll be back roughly on the 20th anniversary of the first referendum. I don’t rule out being back in the Single Market this decade though.
    Nah, just try and line up the ducks that get us back into the EU, it is absurdly unlikely

    1. Government with huge majority recently elected (and willing to risk it)

    2. Has to do it early on in term

    3. No chance of any EU nation vetoing (oops)

    4. Negotiation of membership goes just fine (oops)

    5. British people willing to join euro and Schenghen

    6. EU doing economically much better than UK

    7. Polls definitively in favour of EU membership again

    8. British people OK with Free Movement

    9. British PM willing to expend enormous capital to make Britain subject to EU laws created by unelected eurocrats, and willing to divide the nation coz this is a good thing??

    Once you look at it like that, you realise it is simply never going to happen. It's done. 2016 was it. The Revolution. C'est finit
    Especially six. Even with the cluster that was the Truss premiership, the UK has still outgrown the EU since the full Brexit happened. And of course their unemployment rate is almost 60% higher.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited May 4
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @LibDems

    Those local election results in full 😉


    We’ve still brexited. And it will never change. Sorry
    You’re right. We cannot change what happened on 31 January 2020. However we can and will rejoin. Sorry. But do keep posting the holiday snaps. They’re super fun!
    Do you think Starmer will put a commitment to a second referendum in the next Labour manifesto?
    No. It will take a bit longer than that. I think we’ll be back roughly on the 20th anniversary of the first referendum. I don’t rule out being back in the Single Market this decade though.
    Nah, just try and line up the ducks that get us back into the EU, it is absurdly unlikely

    1. Government with huge majority recently elected (and willing to risk it)

    2. Has to do it early on in term

    3. No chance of any EU nation vetoing (oops)

    4. Negotiation of membership goes just fine (oops)

    5. British people willing to join euro and Schenghen

    6. EU doing economically much better than UK

    7. Polls definitively in favour of EU membership again

    8. British people OK with Free Movement

    9. British PM willing to expend enormous capital to make Britain subject to EU laws created by unelected eurocrats, and willing to divide the nation coz this is a good thing??

    Once you look at it like that, you realise it is simply never going to happen. It's done. 2016 was it. The Revolution. C'est finit
    Many revolutions are not permanent.

    But I do think this one will not be reversed for at least a couple of decades. UK opinion will not necessarily be the thing that holds it back. EU institutional memory will play a big role.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814

    Count Binface
    @CountBinface
    ·
    40m
    I fight Fascists and extortionate croissants.

    https://twitter.com/CountBinface/status/1786875743303012376

    :lol:


  • SteveSSteveS Posts: 182
    edited May 4
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the EU Parliament and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    No, I am talking about UNELECTED BUREAUCRAT LORD FROST , which doesn't ever get voted out, regardless of performance. The EU Parliament does have a facade of democracy, but it is done in a manner where it doesn't actually change EU policy, given the two main party groupings stitch up job sharing deals after every election.
    FTFY
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149
    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak has released a statement tonight claiming Britain has “turned a corner” and the Tories are “delivering” for the people

    Cruella has written an op-ed in the 'graph saying the PM should be digging to get them out of a hole

    @sturdyAlex
    This is now the political equivalent of a mental health crisis.


    How do section the Government?

    We've turned so many corners according to Sunak that we might as well be in the maze at Longleat (the trick to which, famously, is NOT to turn right at the entrance).
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    I have a question. Is it better to rent a flat in London than buy one?

    The flat would cost £350k to buy but the rental level is around £1300.
    Buying... mortgage interest/cost of capital would be £17,500 per year (at 5%).
    Renting... £1300 per month, so £15,600 per year.

    Buying - you have to also pay service charges on a flat and are exposed to 'leasehold risk' in all its various forms.
    None of that applies when you are renting.
    Also when renting you can get the landlord to fix the appliances and deal with problems with the building.

    This got me thinking. Is property in London massively overpriced and due a correction? My theory is that the market it still priced based on low interest rates that existed from around 2015-2021, indeed prices are basically frozen from this time.
    When interest rates were 2%, the mortgage interest/cost of capital for the property cited above would be £7000 per year and buying the flat would make sense.
    But not at 5%.





  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    I have just noticed that Burnham got both fewer votes and a smaller share today than he did in 2021.

    Our very own King of the North BJO fans please explain.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412

    Scott_xP said:

    I rarely agree with you politically but thought you absolutely nailed it when you referred to Sunak's lack of curiosity. He is deeply incurious, has no imagination, no hinterland. Robotic and, even if intelligent, fundamentally lacking in creative thought.
    I think I read somewhere that his favourite author is Jilly Cooper, which just about sums it up.

    Southam has commented on this frequently. Anecdotally Richi is very curious, about very specific and nerdy things.

    What he is deeply incurious about is the Country he nominally leads. How to fill up a car, how to use a debit card, the cost of living, public transport.
    Well yes, of course, but I was thinking more of intellectual curiosity, curiosity about ideas. Sunak has none as far as I can see.
    It was when he was up in Scotland and he said (in an interview aboard a ferry) - 'Scotland has a great brand' - as if the idea that the nation of whisky, tartan and lochs had a great brand was a new and revelatory insight. He got hell from the Nats here for it, and at the time I defended him quite a lot as I thought his comment was extremely inoffensive and the attacks were pathetic. Looking back on that statement, I now just see it as just another inane Rishi-ism. Some odd soundbite he's picked up somewhere along the line and is just regurgitating and thinking it sounds informed.

    I'm going to stop slating the guy now - he's just a soul making his way through life as we all are.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the EU Parliament and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    No, I am talking about the European Commission, which doesn't ever get voted out, regardless of performance. The EU Parliament does have a facade of democracy, but it is done in a manner where it doesn't actually change EU policy, given the two main party groupings stitch up job sharing deals after every election.
    The Santer Commission. You're welcome.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    And remember, the Boris banana crowd are the same crowd who had no problem with unelected Boris and Dom trying to prorogue Parliament.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @LibDems

    Those local election results in full 😉


    We’ve still brexited. And it will never change. Sorry
    You’re right. We cannot change what happened on 31 January 2020. However we can and will rejoin. Sorry. But do keep posting the holiday snaps. They’re super fun!
    Do you think Starmer will put a commitment to a second referendum in the next Labour manifesto?
    No. It will take a bit longer than that. I think we’ll be back roughly on the 20th anniversary of the first referendum. I don’t rule out being back in the Single Market this decade though.
    Nah, just try and line up the ducks that get us back into the EU, it is absurdly unlikely

    1. Government with huge majority recently elected (and willing to risk it)

    2. Has to do it early on in term

    3. No chance of any EU nation vetoing (oops)

    4. Negotiation of membership goes just fine (oops)

    5. British people willing to join euro and Schenghen

    6. EU doing economically much better than UK

    7. Polls definitively in favour of EU membership again

    8. British people OK with Free Movement

    9. British PM willing to expend enormous capital to make Britain subject to EU laws created by unelected eurocrats, and willing to divide the nation coz this is a good thing??

    Once you look at it like that, you realise it is simply never going to happen. It's done. 2016 was it. The Revolution. C'est finit
    Especially six. Even with the cluster that was the Truss premiership, the UK has still outgrown the EU since the full Brexit happened. And of course their unemployment rate is almost 60% higher.
    The more one thinks about it, the more insane the idea becomes

    Any British PM even contemplating an EU Rejoin referendum will be highly aware of what happened to David Cameron when he confidently called a referendum he was sure he would win 70/30. He lost, and it ended his career, and that is his epitaph: lost the biggest vote ever, and is now seen as a tragic failure

    I am a Leaver, and I am evermore glad we Left, but I do genuinely have an open mind, and yet I cannot foresee circumstances, outside war or some other black swan, when any British PM will risk their entire career to force us back into the EU, and for what? To yield loads of his/her political power and hand it to inferior eurocrats in Brussels? Why? Who would do that? It simply won't ever happen. It's not going to happen. It's done

    What WILL happen is a load of slightly bad tempered bilateral agreements tweaking the single market rules twixt them and us so that we slowly get to a somewhat better place, that suits both sides, this is what happens with Norway and Switzerland etc
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    SteveS said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the EU Parliament and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    No, I am talking about UNELECTED BUREAUCRAT LORD FROST , which doesn't ever get voted out, regardless of performance. The EU Parliament does have a facade of democracy, but it is done in a manner where it doesn't actually change EU policy, given the two main party groupings stitch up job sharing deals after every election.
    FTFY
    Lord Frost is an unelected politician. He was once a bureaucrat, he is one no longer. I don't quite understand why everyone is calling him a bureaucrat when self-evidently he isn't one.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Fox - who wanted to stand to be London Mayor - and stood for Assembly, announces he is leaving London.

  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149

    Count Binface
    @CountBinface
    ·
    40m
    I fight Fascists and extortionate croissants.

    https://twitter.com/CountBinface/status/1786875743303012376

    I can't believe the Count is spinning like this. His vote was DOWN by 515 across London compared with 2021.

    Broken, sleazy Binface on the slide.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,647
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the EU Parliament and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    No, I am talking about the European Commission, which doesn't ever get voted out, regardless of performance. The EU Parliament does have a facade of democracy, but it is done in a manner where it doesn't actually change EU policy, given the two main party groupings stitch up job sharing deals after every election.
    Spoken like somebody that doesn't have a clue. The Commission does what the elected heads of state tell them to do.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    EPG said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the EU Parliament and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    No, I am talking about the European Commission, which doesn't ever get voted out, regardless of performance. The EU Parliament does have a facade of democracy, but it is done in a manner where it doesn't actually change EU policy, given the two main party groupings stitch up job sharing deals after every election.
    The Santer Commission. You're welcome.
    They resigned due to a corruption scandal. They weren't voted out. Though it is amusing that you think one resignation in 66 years is said smugly as an answer for a lack of democratic accountability.
  • SteveSSteveS Posts: 182
    darkage said:

    I have a question. Is it better to rent a flat in London than buy one?

    The flat would cost £350k to buy but the rental level is around £1300.
    Buying... mortgage interest/cost of capital would be £17,500 per year (at 5%).
    Renting... £1300 per month, so £15,600 per year.

    Buying - you have to also pay service charges on a flat and are exposed to 'leasehold risk' in all its various forms.
    None of that applies when you are renting.
    Also when renting you can get the landlord to fix the appliances and deal with problems with the building.

    This got me thinking. Is property in London massively overpriced and due a correction? My theory is that the market it still priced based on low interest rates that existed from around 2015-2021, indeed prices are basically frozen from this time.
    When interest rates were 2%, the mortgage interest/cost of capital for the property cited above would be £7000 per year and buying the flat would make sense.
    But not at 5%.

    It depends on what you think will happen in the future.

    Renting is short term certainty with no exposure to long term risk (both upside and downside)
    The reason behind the apparent disparity in prices is that the buyers are taking the long term view that things will get better - either lower interest rates or capital increases.

    Personally I think buying is the better bet, but only if you can afford to weather a short term storm. YMMV.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    edited May 4
    From the thread header:

    "it has been a truly terrible set of elections for the Tories."

    Can just hear Anthony King there... :D
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,647

    I have just noticed that Burnham got both fewer votes and a smaller share today than he did in 2021.

    Our very own King of the North BJO fans please explain.

    He's a busted flush.

    Is he for railway nationalisation now or against it?

    He's as overrated as Sunak.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,647
    WillG said:

    EPG said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the EU Parliament and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    No, I am talking about the European Commission, which doesn't ever get voted out, regardless of performance. The EU Parliament does have a facade of democracy, but it is done in a manner where it doesn't actually change EU policy, given the two main party groupings stitch up job sharing deals after every election.
    The Santer Commission. You're welcome.
    They resigned due to a corruption scandal. They weren't voted out. Though it is amusing that you think one resignation in 66 years is said smugly as an answer for a lack of democratic accountability.
    I assume you think the Civil Service here should be elected too.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    Fox - who wanted to stand to be London Mayor - and stood for Assembly, announces he is leaving London.

    I'm sure London will be devastated at this news...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    I have just noticed that Burnham got both fewer votes and a smaller share today than he did in 2021.

    Our very own King of the North BJO fans please explain.

    He's a busted flush.

    Is he for railway nationalisation now or against it?

    He's as overrated as Sunak.
    Who BJO?
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Fox - who wanted to stand to be London Mayor - and stood for Assembly, announces he is leaving London.

    I’m sure London will breathe a sigh of relief.
  • SteveSSteveS Posts: 182

    SteveS said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the EU Parliament and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    No, I am talking about UNELECTED BUREAUCRAT LORD FROST , which doesn't ever get voted out, regardless of performance. The EU Parliament does have a facade of democracy, but it is done in a manner where it doesn't actually change EU policy, given the two main party groupings stitch up job sharing deals after every election.
    FTFY
    Lord Frost is an unelected politician. He was once a bureaucrat, he is one no longer. I don't quite understand why everyone is calling him a bureaucrat when self-evidently he isn't one.
    I don’t understand the self-evidently bit. When did he stop becoming a bureaucrat?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044
    As a LibDem in London, I was glad to see Blackie get third in the mayoral contest, overtaking the Greens. However, the Assembly results were a disappointment, the Greens remained ahead there and so the LibDems stay on 2 AMs to the Greens’ 3.

    The Greens put their mayoral candidate 4th on their list, so Garbett doesn’t get elected. Instead it’s the continuation of Sian (has moved out of London as she’s their candidate in Brighton) Berry, Caroline Russell and Zack (gave a Sun journalist hypnotherapy to make her breasts bigger) Polanski. If Berry is elected at the general, she’ll presumably stand down and Garbett would get co-opted as next on list.

    The LibDem contingent in the Assembly had been Pidgeon and Bokhari, but Pidgeon stood down. Blackie, the 2024 mayoral candidate, had been third on the list in 2021 and so narrowly missed out. This time, he was second on the list after Bokhari… but he still didn’t get elected! For the first time ever, a party other than Lab or Con won a constituency seat with the LibDems’ Gareth Roberts (NOT the transphobic Dr Who/Spectator writer) winning in South West. Under the top-up system the Assembly uses, that means in effect he supplants someone on the party list. Blackie misses out again.

    Susan Hall was first on the Conservative list, so she is re-elected to the Assembly.

    I thought Reform UK would get elected to the Assembly. I thought they might get 2 seats, as UKIP had, but they only got one. They had also put their mayoral candidate, Cox, second on their list, so he wasn’t elected. Instead, welcome Alex Wilson, a former Tory and now the most high profile Reform UK politician to have been elected.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited May 4
    SteveS said:

    SteveS said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the EU Parliament and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    No, I am talking about UNELECTED BUREAUCRAT LORD FROST , which doesn't ever get voted out, regardless of performance. The EU Parliament does have a facade of democracy, but it is done in a manner where it doesn't actually change EU policy, given the two main party groupings stitch up job sharing deals after every election.
    FTFY
    Lord Frost is an unelected politician. He was once a bureaucrat, he is one no longer. I don't quite understand why everyone is calling him a bureaucrat when self-evidently he isn't one.
    I don’t understand the self-evidently bit. When did he stop becoming a bureaucrat?
    When he stopped being an official and became a politician.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the EU Parliament and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    No, I am talking about the European Commission, which doesn't ever get voted out, regardless of performance. The EU Parliament does have a facade of democracy, but it is done in a manner where it doesn't actually change EU policy, given the two main party groupings stitch up job sharing deals after every election.
    Spoken like somebody that doesn't have a clue. The Commission does what the elected heads of state tell them to do.
    They really don't

    The EU's new anti-AI law was brought in against the wishes of the 2nd most powerful member state - France (which is also the only EU member state with a significant AI industry)

    It happened anyway. The result is that the most important US AI companies will not allow access to the best AI - eg Claude 3 Opus. Yet it can be freely accessed from the UK, because we don't have these mad EU laws

    This is a very real thing. Because the EU is a muscled geopolitical eunuch with just one power - the power of regulation - it does that all the time. It regulates. In minor consumer issues it can sometimes regulate well, it's good that consumer electronic companies are forced to cohere around one charging mechanism, say, but in much bigger issues this regulation can be utterly disastrous, and requested by no one. They just do it, coz it is all they can do
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @LibDems

    Those local election results in full 😉


    We’ve still brexited. And it will never change. Sorry
    You’re right. We cannot change what happened on 31 January 2020. However we can and will rejoin. Sorry. But do keep posting the holiday snaps. They’re super fun!
    Do you think Starmer will put a commitment to a second referendum in the next Labour manifesto?
    No. It will take a bit longer than that. I think we’ll be back roughly on the 20th anniversary of the first referendum. I don’t rule out being back in the Single Market this decade though.
    Nah, just try and line up the ducks that get us back into the EU, it is absurdly unlikely

    1. Government with huge majority recently elected (and willing to risk it)

    2. Has to do it early on in term

    3. No chance of any EU nation vetoing (oops)

    4. Negotiation of membership goes just fine (oops)

    5. British people willing to join euro and Schenghen

    6. EU doing economically much better than UK

    7. Polls definitively in favour of EU membership again

    8. British people OK with Free Movement

    9. British PM willing to expend enormous capital to make Britain subject to EU laws created by unelected eurocrats, and willing to divide the nation coz this is a good thing??

    Once you look at it like that, you realise it is simply never going to happen. It's done. 2016 was it. The Revolution. C'est finit
    Especially six. Even with the cluster that was the Truss premiership, the UK has still outgrown the EU since the full Brexit happened. And of course their unemployment rate is almost 60% higher.
    The more one thinks about it, the more insane the idea becomes

    Any British PM even contemplating an EU Rejoin referendum will be highly aware of what happened to David Cameron when he confidently called a referendum he was sure he would win 70/30. He lost, and it ended his career, and that is his epitaph: lost the biggest vote ever, and is now seen as a tragic failure

    I am a Leaver, and I am evermore glad we Left, but I do genuinely have an open mind, and yet I cannot foresee circumstances, outside war or some other black swan, when any British PM will risk their entire career to force us back into the EU, and for what? To yield loads of his/her political power and hand it to inferior eurocrats in Brussels? Why? Who would do that? It simply won't ever happen. It's not going to happen. It's done

    What WILL happen is a load of slightly bad tempered bilateral agreements tweaking the single market rules twixt them and us so that we slowly get to a somewhat better place, that suits both sides, this is what happens with Norway and Switzerland etc
    And of course similar bilateral agreements will happen with the USA and Canada and Japan and lots of other places. This is how normal countries exist in the world. On current trends, about two thirds of UK exports will be non-EU in a decade's time. The business interest will run in the other direction.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    ToryJim said:

    Fox - who wanted to stand to be London Mayor - and stood for Assembly, announces he is leaving London.

    I’m sure London will breathe a sigh of relief.
    He comes across as someone who doesn't actually want - now they are middle aged - to live in a vibrant, busy, chaotic, cramped and occasionally bonkers, huge city.

    He'll not be the first nor the last.

  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,678

    Fox - who wanted to stand to be London Mayor - and stood for Assembly, announces he is leaving London.

    John Thaw, a massive Labour supporter of course, must be spinning in his grave. The only reason Fox is a thing at all is down to how good Thaw was in Inspector Morse.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...
    Scott_xP said:

    @LibDems

    Those local election results in full 😉


    It looks like the LDs are closing in on Labour.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    WillG said:

    EPG said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the EU Parliament and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    No, I am talking about the European Commission, which doesn't ever get voted out, regardless of performance. The EU Parliament does have a facade of democracy, but it is done in a manner where it doesn't actually change EU policy, given the two main party groupings stitch up job sharing deals after every election.
    The Santer Commission. You're welcome.
    They resigned due to a corruption scandal. They weren't voted out. Though it is amusing that you think one resignation in 66 years is said smugly as an answer for a lack of democratic accountability.
    Of course, no constitution says you have to resign due to a scandal, but rather because democratic political parties refuse to support you. Cf, numerous patriotic Brexit Tories who have had to resign, or often not! So the Santer commission resigned not for tolerating fraud but because the parties rejected them. For this correction, you have already been made welcome in advance.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    Fox - who wanted to stand to be London Mayor - and stood for Assembly, announces he is leaving London.

    John Thaw, a massive Labour supporter of course, must be spinning in his grave. The only reason Fox is a thing at all is down to how good Thaw was in Inspector Morse.
    I bet Lozza and Kevin Whately (another famous leftie) had some "interesting" discussions on the set of Lewis... But then again I suspect Lozza was a lot less... "intense" back then lol!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603
    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the EU Parliament and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    No, I am talking about the European Commission, which doesn't ever get voted out, regardless of performance. The EU Parliament does have a facade of democracy, but it is done in a manner where it doesn't actually change EU policy, given the two main party groupings stitch up job sharing deals after every election.
    Spoken like somebody that doesn't have a clue. The Commission does what the elected heads of state tell them to do.
    They really don't

    The EU's new anti-AI law was brought in against the wishes of the 2nd most powerful member state - France (which is also the only EU member state with a significant AI industry)

    It happened anyway. The result is that the most important US AI companies will not allow access to the best AI - eg Claude 3 Opus. Yet it can be freely accessed from the UK, because we don't have these mad EU laws

    This is a very real thing. Because the EU is a muscled geopolitical eunuch with just one power - the power of regulation - it does that all the time. It regulates. In minor consumer issues it can sometimes regulate well, it's good that consumer electronic companies are forced to cohere around one charging mechanism, say, but in much bigger issues this regulation can be utterly disastrous, and requested by no one. They just do it, coz it is all they can do
    Even on chargers, they waited until the industry had already settled on a single standard anyway, so it was largely a PR exercise.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    WillG said:

    EPG said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the EU Parliament and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    No, I am talking about the European Commission, which doesn't ever get voted out, regardless of performance. The EU Parliament does have a facade of democracy, but it is done in a manner where it doesn't actually change EU policy, given the two main party groupings stitch up job sharing deals after every election.
    The Santer Commission. You're welcome.
    They resigned due to a corruption scandal. They weren't voted out. Though it is amusing that you think one resignation in 66 years is said smugly as an answer for a lack of democratic accountability.
    I assume you think the Civil Service here should be elected too.
    No, because it is sufficient to have them accountable to a democratically elected executive. Not true for the Commission.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044
    I see that the W Mids polling, while mostly right, missed the success of Yakoob. Yakoob got 12%, but had polled 2%, 5%, 3%, 3%, 3%.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,767

    On Thursday Sunak had his win in TDanSmithland and might have got himself the West Midlands at a push. Even in defeat he could claim a valiant fight. But the claim via Kate Ferguson that Susan Hall had won was so plausible it needed to be true, or at the very least very close. Sunak as the figurehead now looks as ridiculous as those of us who took on Ferguson's BS.

    T Dan Smith is Tyneside not Teeside!
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    Are the election results so damning that one has to go back to 2016-19 Boris banana arguments for a feeling of winningness?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700

    Glen O'Hara
    @gsoh31
    ·
    1h
    The Tories' fate has long been sealed, but they made it far, far worse when they went down the National Populist road. People just want to sign up with a dentist, phone a GP, get a bus on time. Simple things.
  • SteveSSteveS Posts: 182
    kle4 said:

    SteveS said:

    SteveS said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the EU Parliament and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    No, I am talking about UNELECTED BUREAUCRAT LORD FROST , which doesn't ever get voted out, regardless of performance. The EU Parliament does have a facade of democracy, but it is done in a manner where it doesn't actually change EU policy, given the two main party groupings stitch up job sharing deals after every election.
    FTFY
    Lord Frost is an unelected politician. He was once a bureaucrat, he is one no longer. I don't quite understand why everyone is calling him a bureaucrat when self-evidently he isn't one.
    I don’t understand the self-evidently bit. When did he stop becoming a bureaucrat?
    When he stopped being an official and became a politician.
    So I have a bit of a problem with this. I don’t think it’s right that one day someone can be an impartial civil servant and the next they are a politician in the Lords. I think a a period of at least two years is required between transitioning from unelected bureaucrat to unelected member of government. (I think no such restriction should apply to elected positions. If the public votes for you you’re in)
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366


    Glen O'Hara
    @gsoh31
    ·
    1h
    The Tories' fate has long been sealed, but they made it far, far worse when they went down the National Populist road. People just want to sign up with a dentist, phone a GP, get a bus on time. Simple things.

    They won a huge majority on a populist ticket. People like higher taxes on the rich and fewer immigrants. But you need to match that with competence in execution.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,694
    darkage said:

    I have a question. Is it better to rent a flat in London than buy one?

    The flat would cost £350k to buy but the rental level is around £1300.
    Buying... mortgage interest/cost of capital would be £17,500 per year (at 5%).
    Renting... £1300 per month, so £15,600 per year.

    Buying - you have to also pay service charges on a flat and are exposed to 'leasehold risk' in all its various forms.
    None of that applies when you are renting.
    Also when renting you can get the landlord to fix the appliances and deal with problems with the building.

    This got me thinking. Is property in London massively overpriced and due a correction? My theory is that the market it still priced based on low interest rates that existed from around 2015-2021, indeed prices are basically frozen from this time.
    When interest rates were 2%, the mortgage interest/cost of capital for the property cited above would be £7000 per year and buying the flat would make sense.
    But not at 5%.





    Rent goes up with inflation and you have bear risk at the end of tenancy periods.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    GIN1138 said:

    Fox - who wanted to stand to be London Mayor - and stood for Assembly, announces he is leaving London.

    I'm sure London will be devastated at this news...
    Perhaps he could go back to acting. I quite enjoyed him as Palmerston in that Victoria series.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    WillG said:


    Glen O'Hara
    @gsoh31
    ·
    1h
    The Tories' fate has long been sealed, but they made it far, far worse when they went down the National Populist road. People just want to sign up with a dentist, phone a GP, get a bus on time. Simple things.

    They won a huge majority on a populist ticket. People like higher taxes on the rich and fewer immigrants. But you need to match that with competence in execution.
    Eh? Johnson is utterly indifferent to immigration as long as it drives the economy.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700

    Giles Wilkes
    @Gilesyb
    My favourite three outcomes of these elections:

    1: there has not been a successful anti ULEZ campaign. Would have been terrible for environmental policy, just as the Uxbridge result was (for both parties). Imagine what bad advice Sunak would be getting had Hall come close 1/

    Giles Wilkes
    @Gilesyb
    ·
    6h
    2: That point from
    @rcolvile
    about pro development Mayors doing well is still correct even if Street is edged out. He massively outperformed his party by being pro doing stuff. This might really matter for UK growth going forward 2/

    Giles Wilkes
    @Gilesyb
    ·
    6h
    3: I think these results are broadly good for pollsters, whose prior expectations have been largely confirmed. If we are to have polls, I don't think it's particularly healthy for them to be badly out, even if this is very tough news for Conservative strategists. 3/3

    https://twitter.com/Gilesyb/status/1786791200755712398
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    WillG said:


    Glen O'Hara
    @gsoh31
    ·
    1h
    The Tories' fate has long been sealed, but they made it far, far worse when they went down the National Populist road. People just want to sign up with a dentist, phone a GP, get a bus on time. Simple things.

    They won a huge majority on a populist ticket. People like higher taxes on the rich and fewer immigrants. But you need to match that with competence in execution.
    Eh? Johnson is utterly indifferent to immigration as long as it drives the economy.
    That is true, but his platform had a proper Brexit as a central plank, which ended Free Movement and unskilled EU immigration. Which was very popular.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149
    edited May 4

    Fox - who wanted to stand to be London Mayor - and stood for Assembly, announces he is leaving London.

    John Thaw, a massive Labour supporter of course, must be spinning in his grave. The only reason Fox is a thing at all is down to how good Thaw was in Inspector Morse.
    Fox was a pretty good actor from a famous acting family. Lewis was a good show for his career, but it's not like he was short of opportunities, and would have established an acting career without it.

    But, like quite a few other people, his life has got out of control and he's gone down a rabbit hole - personal difficulties, substance issues, a desire for attention, fundamentally being a bit of an arsehole etc. As the election results today show, he isn't even really a "thing" - just a freak show curiosity who gets enough likes on Twitter to keep going, but is basically an oddity for people to gawp at.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,077

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    @LibDems

    Those local election results in full 😉


    It looks like the LDs are closing in on Labour.
    Compared to the Tories, they are.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044
    WillG said:

    WillG said:


    Glen O'Hara
    @gsoh31
    ·
    1h
    The Tories' fate has long been sealed, but they made it far, far worse when they went down the National Populist road. People just want to sign up with a dentist, phone a GP, get a bus on time. Simple things.

    They won a huge majority on a populist ticket. People like higher taxes on the rich and fewer immigrants. But you need to match that with competence in execution.
    Eh? Johnson is utterly indifferent to immigration as long as it drives the economy.
    That is true, but his platform had a proper Brexit as a central plank, which ended Free Movement and unskilled EU immigration. Which was very popular.
    Leavers wanted lower immigration. They didn’t want lower unskilled EU immigration but massively higher everywhere else immigration. This is partly why Reform are doing so well and the Conservatives so badly.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    edited May 4
    GIN1138 said:


    Glen O'Hara
    @gsoh31
    ·
    1h
    The Tories' fate has long been sealed, but they made it far, far worse when they went down the National Populist road. People just want to sign up with a dentist, phone a GP, get a bus on time. Simple things.

    Like I've said before, Rishi started off quite well and I think he could have taken the Tories to a very respectable defeat but the turning point was when they held on to Uxbridge and I think he thought that by going down the Populist route/taxing to the right, he might be able to actually win the election.

    It was terrible miscalculation, although also a very human one. I can understand no one wants to be the leader that's holding the baton when the party gets turfed out of office, but by trying to force things rather than accepting the inevitable graciously, he has made things much worse they needed to be.
    And just to say the "inevitable" defeat he should have been accepting wasn't even his fault. That was down to TRUSS - Con were done the moment the Kwasi sat down after delivering the budget.

    If Rishi had taken over from Boris and the Truss budget never happened, the situation may still have been salvageable and a 1992 might have been possible in 2024, so a lot of this isn't Rishi's fault at all but everything that's gone wrong in the last 6 months or so, certainly is.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    EPG said:

    WillG said:

    EPG said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the EU Parliament and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    No, I am talking about the European Commission, which doesn't ever get voted out, regardless of performance. The EU Parliament does have a facade of democracy, but it is done in a manner where it doesn't actually change EU policy, given the two main party groupings stitch up job sharing deals after every election.
    The Santer Commission. You're welcome.
    They resigned due to a corruption scandal. They weren't voted out. Though it is amusing that you think one resignation in 66 years is said smugly as an answer for a lack of democratic accountability.
    Of course, no constitution says you have to resign due to a scandal, but rather because democratic political parties refuse to support you. Cf, numerous patriotic Brexit Tories who have had to resign, or often not! So the Santer commission resigned not for tolerating fraud but because the parties rejected them. For this correction, you have already been made welcome in advance.
    They resigned due to shame. And no Commission has ever been voted out.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    Fox - who wanted to stand to be London Mayor - and stood for Assembly, announces he is leaving London.

    John Thaw, a massive Labour supporter of course, must be spinning in his grave. The only reason Fox is a thing at all is down to how good Thaw was in Inspector Morse.
    Fox was a pretty good actor from a famous acting family. Lewis was a good show for his career, but it's not like he was short of opportunities, and would have established an acting career without it.

    But, like quite a few other people, his life has got out of control and he's gone down a rabbit hole - personal difficulties, substance issues, a desire for attention, fundamentally being a bit of an arsehole etc. As the election results today show, he isn't even really a "thing" - just a freak show curiosity who gets enough likes on Twitter to keep going, but is basically an oddity for people to gawp at.
    And like I said, without an intervention its probably going to end very badly...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    Count Binface
    @CountBinface
    ·
    40m
    I fight Fascists and extortionate croissants.

    https://twitter.com/CountBinface/status/1786875743303012376

    I can't believe the Count is spinning like this. His vote was DOWN by 515 across London compared with 2021.

    Broken, sleazy Binface on the slide.
    I bet he’s difficult to be around during bin strikes.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,647

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the EU Parliament and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    No, I am talking about the European Commission, which doesn't ever get voted out, regardless of performance. The EU Parliament does have a facade of democracy, but it is done in a manner where it doesn't actually change EU policy, given the two main party groupings stitch up job sharing deals after every election.
    Spoken like somebody that doesn't have a clue. The Commission does what the elected heads of state tell them to do.
    They really don't

    The EU's new anti-AI law was brought in against the wishes of the 2nd most powerful member state - France (which is also the only EU member state with a significant AI industry)

    It happened anyway. The result is that the most important US AI companies will not allow access to the best AI - eg Claude 3 Opus. Yet it can be freely accessed from the UK, because we don't have these mad EU laws

    This is a very real thing. Because the EU is a muscled geopolitical eunuch with just one power - the power of regulation - it does that all the time. It regulates. In minor consumer issues it can sometimes regulate well, it's good that consumer electronic companies are forced to cohere around one charging mechanism, say, but in much bigger issues this regulation can be utterly disastrous, and requested by no one. They just do it, coz it is all they can do
    Even on chargers, they waited until the industry had already settled on a single standard anyway, so it was largely a PR exercise.
    Absolute rubbish. Complete nonsense.

    The only reason Apple switched to USB-C was because they were forced to. This is all documented.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    WillG said:

    WillG said:


    Glen O'Hara
    @gsoh31
    ·
    1h
    The Tories' fate has long been sealed, but they made it far, far worse when they went down the National Populist road. People just want to sign up with a dentist, phone a GP, get a bus on time. Simple things.

    They won a huge majority on a populist ticket. People like higher taxes on the rich and fewer immigrants. But you need to match that with competence in execution.
    Eh? Johnson is utterly indifferent to immigration as long as it drives the economy.
    That is true, but his platform had a proper Brexit as a central plank, which ended Free Movement and unskilled EU immigration. Which was very popular.
    It was a trick of the hand though, cause he expected immigration from the indian subcontinent to replace Hungarians and Latvians.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    WillG said:

    WillG said:


    Glen O'Hara
    @gsoh31
    ·
    1h
    The Tories' fate has long been sealed, but they made it far, far worse when they went down the National Populist road. People just want to sign up with a dentist, phone a GP, get a bus on time. Simple things.

    They won a huge majority on a populist ticket. People like higher taxes on the rich and fewer immigrants. But you need to match that with competence in execution.
    Eh? Johnson is utterly indifferent to immigration as long as it drives the economy.
    That is true, but his platform had a proper Brexit as a central plank, which ended Free Movement and unskilled EU immigration. Which was very popular.
    Leavers wanted lower immigration. They didn’t want lower unskilled EU immigration but massively higher everywhere else immigration. This is partly why Reform are doing so well and the Conservatives so badly.
    What happened was that, with Brexit, the UK virtually ended unskilled immigration. And just in the nick of time before all those Syrians, Iraqis and Afghans got German and Swedish passports. But it got replaced by increased low to mid skilled immigration through Boris loosening visa requirements, which also bothered people.

    But people have very little issue with all these English-speaking, religiously moderate, democratic Hong Kongers coming over.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    WillG said:

    WillG said:


    Glen O'Hara
    @gsoh31
    ·
    1h
    The Tories' fate has long been sealed, but they made it far, far worse when they went down the National Populist road. People just want to sign up with a dentist, phone a GP, get a bus on time. Simple things.

    They won a huge majority on a populist ticket. People like higher taxes on the rich and fewer immigrants. But you need to match that with competence in execution.
    Eh? Johnson is utterly indifferent to immigration as long as it drives the economy.
    That is true, but his platform had a proper Brexit as a central plank, which ended Free Movement and unskilled EU immigration. Which was very popular.
    It was a trick of the hand though, cause he expected immigration from the indian subcontinent to replace Hungarians and Latvians.
    See my last post.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Meanwhile - back to the real story...


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1h
    Day 29: Another neighbour contradicts Angela Rayner.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    WillG said:


    Glen O'Hara
    @gsoh31
    ·
    1h
    The Tories' fate has long been sealed, but they made it far, far worse when they went down the National Populist road. People just want to sign up with a dentist, phone a GP, get a bus on time. Simple things.

    They won a huge majority on a populist ticket. People like higher taxes on the rich and fewer immigrants. But you need to match that with competence in execution.
    But what this Government delivered was lower taxes on the rich and way, way more immigration. I assume this is why their polling is flatlining.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    viewcode said:

    WillG said:


    Glen O'Hara
    @gsoh31
    ·
    1h
    The Tories' fate has long been sealed, but they made it far, far worse when they went down the National Populist road. People just want to sign up with a dentist, phone a GP, get a bus on time. Simple things.

    They won a huge majority on a populist ticket. People like higher taxes on the rich and fewer immigrants. But you need to match that with competence in execution.
    But what this Government delivered was lower taxes on the rich and way, way more immigration. I assume this is why their polling is flatlining.
    Yes, exactly. Sunak has got it right on immigration since. But is probably screwed by Boris's choices here, given the impact of his new income thresholds will likely come in too late.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the EU Parliament and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    No, I am talking about the European Commission, which doesn't ever get voted out, regardless of performance. The EU Parliament does have a facade of democracy, but it is done in a manner where it doesn't actually change EU policy, given the two main party groupings stitch up job sharing deals after every election.
    Spoken like somebody that doesn't have a clue. The Commission does what the elected heads of state tell them to do.
    They really don't

    The EU's new anti-AI law was brought in against the wishes of the 2nd most powerful member state - France (which is also the only EU member state with a significant AI industry)

    It happened anyway. The result is that the most important US AI companies will not allow access to the best AI - eg Claude 3 Opus. Yet it can be freely accessed from the UK, because we don't have these mad EU laws

    This is a very real thing. Because the EU is a muscled geopolitical eunuch with just one power - the power of regulation - it does that all the time. It regulates. In minor consumer issues it can sometimes regulate well, it's good that consumer electronic companies are forced to cohere around one charging mechanism, say, but in much bigger issues this regulation can be utterly disastrous, and requested by no one. They just do it, coz it is all they can do
    Even on chargers, they waited until the industry had already settled on a single standard anyway, so it was largely a PR exercise.
    Absolute rubbish. Complete nonsense.

    The only reason Apple switched to USB-C was because they were forced to. This is all documented.
    Apple were mocked for being the first to aggressively push USB-C:

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/07/macbook-pro-usb-c-ports-spanish-apple-engineer
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    Meanwhile - back to the real story...


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1h
    Day 29: Another neighbour contradicts Angela Rayner.

    RAYNER
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,077
    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @LibDems

    Those local election results in full 😉


    We’ve still brexited. And it will never change. Sorry
    You’re right. We cannot change what happened on 31 January 2020. However we can and will rejoin. Sorry. But do keep posting the holiday snaps. They’re super fun!
    Do you think Starmer will put a commitment to a second referendum in the next Labour manifesto?
    No. It will take a bit longer than that. I think we’ll be back roughly on the 20th anniversary of the first referendum. I don’t rule out being back in the Single Market this decade though.
    Nah, just try and line up the ducks that get us back into the EU, it is absurdly unlikely

    1. Government with huge majority recently elected (and willing to risk it)

    2. Has to do it early on in term

    3. No chance of any EU nation vetoing (oops)

    4. Negotiation of membership goes just fine (oops)

    5. British people willing to join euro and Schenghen

    6. EU doing economically much better than UK

    7. Polls definitively in favour of EU membership again

    8. British people OK with Free Movement

    9. British PM willing to expend enormous capital to make Britain subject to EU laws created by unelected eurocrats, and willing to divide the nation coz this is a good thing??

    Once you look at it like that, you realise it is simply never going to happen. It's done. 2016 was it. The Revolution. C'est finit
    Especially six. Even with the cluster that was the Truss premiership, the UK has still outgrown the EU since the full Brexit happened. And of course their unemployment rate is almost 60% higher.
    The more one thinks about it, the more insane the idea becomes

    Any British PM even contemplating an EU Rejoin referendum will be highly aware of what happened to David Cameron when he confidently called a referendum he was sure he would win 70/30. He lost, and it ended his career, and that is his epitaph: lost the biggest vote ever, and is now seen as a tragic failure

    I am a Leaver, and I am evermore glad we Left, but I do genuinely have an open mind, and yet I cannot foresee circumstances, outside war or some other black swan, when any British PM will risk their entire career to force us back into the EU, and for what? To yield loads of his/her political power and hand it to inferior eurocrats in Brussels? Why? Who would do that? It simply won't ever happen. It's not going to happen. It's done

    What WILL happen is a load of slightly bad tempered bilateral agreements tweaking the single market rules twixt them and us so that we slowly get to a somewhat better place, that suits both sides, this is what happens with Norway and Switzerland etc
    I think when you state your biases, you already eliminate yourself as being a valid commentator. You do not wish the UK to return to the EU, therefore your view will prevail. Problem is that if the choice is imperfect EU versus batshit Trump, we are very, very European. "When the facts change, I change my view sir, what do you do?"
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,647
    edited May 4

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the EU Parliament and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    No, I am talking about the European Commission, which doesn't ever get voted out, regardless of performance. The EU Parliament does have a facade of democracy, but it is done in a manner where it doesn't actually change EU policy, given the two main party groupings stitch up job sharing deals after every election.
    Spoken like somebody that doesn't have a clue. The Commission does what the elected heads of state tell them to do.
    They really don't

    The EU's new anti-AI law was brought in against the wishes of the 2nd most powerful member state - France (which is also the only EU member state with a significant AI industry)

    It happened anyway. The result is that the most important US AI companies will not allow access to the best AI - eg Claude 3 Opus. Yet it can be freely accessed from the UK, because we don't have these mad EU laws

    This is a very real thing. Because the EU is a muscled geopolitical eunuch with just one power - the power of regulation - it does that all the time. It regulates. In minor consumer issues it can sometimes regulate well, it's good that consumer electronic companies are forced to cohere around one charging mechanism, say, but in much bigger issues this regulation can be utterly disastrous, and requested by no one. They just do it, coz it is all they can do
    Even on chargers, they waited until the industry had already settled on a single standard anyway, so it was largely a PR exercise.
    Absolute rubbish. Complete nonsense.

    The only reason Apple switched to USB-C was because they were forced to. This is all documented.
    Apple were mocked for being the first to aggressively push USB-C:

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/07/macbook-pro-usb-c-ports-spanish-apple-engineer
    You don't have a clue what you are talking about and it shows.

    The regulations apply to PHONES, not laptops. Apple never licensed the connector (MagSafe) for the laptop so there was no income lost by switching to USB-C.

    Where they did drag their feet was on Lightning on the iPhone. That was what they were forced to change. They dragged their feet for literally half a decade, even as USB-C become prolific. Because on every Lightning cable sold, they took a cut, under the MFI programme.

    Here you are, from a literal Apple executive: https://www.macrumors.com/2022/10/25/greg-joswiak-usb-c-iphone

    "Speaking at the Wall Street Journal's Tech Live event, Joswiak said that Apple ultimately respects the decision made by the EU to mandate a common charger across consumer electronic devices. "We'll have to comply," Joswiak said, indirectly confirming Apple will move to USB-C in the future."

    Please don't come on here and spout rubbish. It is not a good look.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603
    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @LibDems

    Those local election results in full 😉


    We’ve still brexited. And it will never change. Sorry
    You’re right. We cannot change what happened on 31 January 2020. However we can and will rejoin. Sorry. But do keep posting the holiday snaps. They’re super fun!
    Do you think Starmer will put a commitment to a second referendum in the next Labour manifesto?
    No. It will take a bit longer than that. I think we’ll be back roughly on the 20th anniversary of the first referendum. I don’t rule out being back in the Single Market this decade though.
    Nah, just try and line up the ducks that get us back into the EU, it is absurdly unlikely

    1. Government with huge majority recently elected (and willing to risk it)

    2. Has to do it early on in term

    3. No chance of any EU nation vetoing (oops)

    4. Negotiation of membership goes just fine (oops)

    5. British people willing to join euro and Schenghen

    6. EU doing economically much better than UK

    7. Polls definitively in favour of EU membership again

    8. British people OK with Free Movement

    9. British PM willing to expend enormous capital to make Britain subject to EU laws created by unelected eurocrats, and willing to divide the nation coz this is a good thing??

    Once you look at it like that, you realise it is simply never going to happen. It's done. 2016 was it. The Revolution. C'est finit
    Especially six. Even with the cluster that was the Truss premiership, the UK has still outgrown the EU since the full Brexit happened. And of course their unemployment rate is almost 60% higher.
    The more one thinks about it, the more insane the idea becomes

    Any British PM even contemplating an EU Rejoin referendum will be highly aware of what happened to David Cameron when he confidently called a referendum he was sure he would win 70/30. He lost, and it ended his career, and that is his epitaph: lost the biggest vote ever, and is now seen as a tragic failure

    I am a Leaver, and I am evermore glad we Left, but I do genuinely have an open mind, and yet I cannot foresee circumstances, outside war or some other black swan, when any British PM will risk their entire career to force us back into the EU, and for what? To yield loads of his/her political power and hand it to inferior eurocrats in Brussels? Why? Who would do that? It simply won't ever happen. It's not going to happen. It's done

    What WILL happen is a load of slightly bad tempered bilateral agreements tweaking the single market rules twixt them and us so that we slowly get to a somewhat better place, that suits both sides, this is what happens with Norway and Switzerland etc
    I think when you state your biases, you already eliminate yourself as being a valid commentator. You do not wish the UK to return to the EU, therefore your view will prevail. Problem is that if the choice is imperfect EU versus batshit Trump, we are very, very European. "When the facts change, I change my view sir, what do you do?"
    We're not anti-Trump in an us vs. them way like many on the continent. Euro-Gaullism has virtually no support here.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044
    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:


    Glen O'Hara
    @gsoh31
    ·
    1h
    The Tories' fate has long been sealed, but they made it far, far worse when they went down the National Populist road. People just want to sign up with a dentist, phone a GP, get a bus on time. Simple things.

    They won a huge majority on a populist ticket. People like higher taxes on the rich and fewer immigrants. But you need to match that with competence in execution.
    Eh? Johnson is utterly indifferent to immigration as long as it drives the economy.
    That is true, but his platform had a proper Brexit as a central plank, which ended Free Movement and unskilled EU immigration. Which was very popular.
    Leavers wanted lower immigration. They didn’t want lower unskilled EU immigration but massively higher everywhere else immigration. This is partly why Reform are doing so well and the Conservatives so badly.
    What happened was that, with Brexit, the UK virtually ended unskilled immigration. And just in the nick of time before all those Syrians, Iraqis and Afghans got German and Swedish passports. But it got replaced by increased low to mid skilled immigration through Boris loosening visa requirements, which also bothered people.

    But people have very little issue with all these English-speaking, religiously moderate, democratic Hong Kongers coming over.
    People are generally more supportive of specific immigrant groups than of immigration in general. The big scary number that is the net immigration figure worries them, and it’s been at a record high under Sunak, but, yes, if you ask them if they like students or healthcare workers or Ukrainians, they say yes.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Miranda Green
    @greenmiranda
    ·
    3h
    He should have resigned over HS2 back in October and run as an independent
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    WillG said:

    SteveS said:

    However. Before I do. Irrespective of what happens in the EU, I think everyone agrees that Frosty is an unelected bureaucrat? He’s not been elected, and he was a Civil Servant so if the cap fits….

    Yes, he is. But accountable to elected positions. Not true for many major roles in the EU.
    So are you saying the EU Parliament and the elected heads of state that set EU policy and direction aren't elected?
    No, I am talking about the European Commission, which doesn't ever get voted out, regardless of performance. The EU Parliament does have a facade of democracy, but it is done in a manner where it doesn't actually change EU policy, given the two main party groupings stitch up job sharing deals after every election.
    Spoken like somebody that doesn't have a clue. The Commission does what the elected heads of state tell them to do.
    They really don't

    The EU's new anti-AI law was brought in against the wishes of the 2nd most powerful member state - France (which is also the only EU member state with a significant AI industry)

    It happened anyway. The result is that the most important US AI companies will not allow access to the best AI - eg Claude 3 Opus. Yet it can be freely accessed from the UK, because we don't have these mad EU laws

    This is a very real thing. Because the EU is a muscled geopolitical eunuch with just one power - the power of regulation - it does that all the time. It regulates. In minor consumer issues it can sometimes regulate well, it's good that consumer electronic companies are forced to cohere around one charging mechanism, say, but in much bigger issues this regulation can be utterly disastrous, and requested by no one. They just do it, coz it is all they can do
    Even on chargers, they waited until the industry had already settled on a single standard anyway, so it was largely a PR exercise.
    Absolute rubbish. Complete nonsense.

    The only reason Apple switched to USB-C was because they were forced to. This is all documented.
    Apple were mocked for being the first to aggressively push USB-C:

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/07/macbook-pro-usb-c-ports-spanish-apple-engineer
    You don't have a clue what you are talking about and it shows.

    The regulations apply to PHONES, not laptops. Apple never licensed the connector (MagSafe) for the laptop so there was no income lost by switching to USB-C.

    Where they did drag their feet was on Lightning on the iPhone. That was what they were forced to change. They dragged their feet for literally half a decade, even as USB-C become prolific. Because on every Lightning cable sold, they took a cut, under the MFI programme.

    Here you are, from a literal Apple executive: https://www.macrumors.com/2022/10/25/greg-joswiak-usb-c-iphone

    "Speaking at the Wall Street Journal's Tech Live event, Joswiak said that Apple ultimately respects the decision made by the EU to mandate a common charger across consumer electronic devices. "We'll have to comply," Joswiak said, indirectly confirming Apple will move to USB-C in the future."

    Please don't come on here and spout rubbish. It is not a good look.
    The fact that the regulations only apply to phones is another point in favour of my argument that it's mainly a PR exercise. Why not push the regulation out to all electronic devices below a certain wattage?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    edited May 4

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:


    Glen O'Hara
    @gsoh31
    ·
    1h
    The Tories' fate has long been sealed, but they made it far, far worse when they went down the National Populist road. People just want to sign up with a dentist, phone a GP, get a bus on time. Simple things.

    Like I've said before, Rishi started off quite well and I think he could have taken the Tories to a very respectable defeat but the turning point was when they held on to Uxbridge and I think he thought that by going down the Populist route/taxing to the right, he might be able to actually win the election.

    It was terrible miscalculation, although also a very human one. I can understand no one wants to be the leader that's holding the baton when the party gets turfed out of office, but by trying to force things rather than accepting the inevitable graciously, he has made things much worse they needed to be.
    And just to say the "inevitable" defeat he should have been accepting wasn't even his fault. That was down to TRUSS - Con were done the moment the Kwasi sat down after delivering the budget.

    If Rishi had taken over from Boris and the Truss budget never happened, the situation may still have been salvageable and a 1992 might have been possible in 2024, so a lot of this isn't Rishi's fault at all but everything that's gone wrong in the last 6 months or so, certainly is.
    “This was the best budget I have ever heard a chancellor deliver, by a massive margin.” Allister Heath, Editor, Sunday Telegraph.

    “At last, a real, Tory budget!” Daily Mail front page.
    Shows what the Tele and Daily Rant know doesn't it?

    At the very least, before delivering such a radical budget, Truss and Kwasi should have got a mandate from GBP in the form of a general election as Theresa May and Boris Johnson both did for their policies, to varying degrees of success.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,647

    The fact that the regulations only apply to phones is another point in favour of my argument that it's mainly a PR exercise. Why not push the regulation out to all electronic devices below a certain wattage?

    They are, this is only phase one. They wanted to tackle the devices that caused the most electronic waste first and then they mandate it for other devices next.

    You are utterly clueless.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,647
    Rishi's biggest error was thinking that a fluke result in London was somehow a strategy to win over the country. Which shows his lack of political ability.

    What the results this week show is that even in London that attack has completely deflated (as I said it would at the time) as people adjust to it and move on.

    He completely misread the country - and as a result he has torpedoed the remainder of the 2019 coalition. But in order to get the 2019 coalition they said goodbye to a lot of their more traditional Lib Dem lite voters who have now also left him.

    So he's got in a pincer movement. He took a bad situation and made it worse.

    He will come to be seen as the leader who took a bad hand and then set it on fire.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    What a lovely day.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Ex FT. More from Truss's Deep State...


    Brian Groom
    @GroomB
    ·
    3h
    I met Andy Street when he ran John Lewis. Decent guy. Undermined by the Tories' national unpopularity and the decision to can HS2 north of Birmingham.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    edited May 4
    Historians will record cancelling HS2 at Manchester conference in huge fanfare as one of the greatest own goals in English politics.

    Anywhere north of Islington heard this as 'fuck you' the capital is all that counts.



    What a ship of fools Sunak captains.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    edited May 4

    What a lovely day.

    HAHA

    After years and years of abject misery and failure... Enjoy!

    (The climax - 2024 general election - Is still to come - but I'm sure this weekend has been awesome foreplay 😂 )
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603

    The fact that the regulations only apply to phones is another point in favour of my argument that it's mainly a PR exercise. Why not push the regulation out to all electronic devices below a certain wattage?

    They are, this is only phase one. They wanted to tackle the devices that caused the most electronic waste first and then they mandate it for other devices next.

    You are utterly clueless.
    You are utterly credulous.

    Other than the iPhone, the mobile industry had already standardised on USB-C. Arguably the net effect of Apple switching was to create more waste by making people rebuy their accessories.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,647
    edited May 4

    The fact that the regulations only apply to phones is another point in favour of my argument that it's mainly a PR exercise. Why not push the regulation out to all electronic devices below a certain wattage?

    They are, this is only phase one. They wanted to tackle the devices that caused the most electronic waste first and then they mandate it for other devices next.

    You are utterly clueless.
    You are utterly credulous.

    Other than the iPhone, the mobile industry had already standardised on USB-C. Arguably the net effect of Apple switching was to create more waste by making people rebuy their accessories.
    Why would they have to re-buy accessories if the industry had already standardised USB-C? You contradict your own argument.

    "Other than the iPhone" - the iPhone is literally the biggest selling phone in history.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    What's the one council still to be declared?
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @LibDems

    Those local election results in full 😉


    We’ve still brexited. And it will never change. Sorry
    You’re right. We cannot change what happened on 31 January 2020. However we can and will rejoin. Sorry. But do keep posting the holiday snaps. They’re super fun!
    Do you think Starmer will put a commitment to a second referendum in the next Labour manifesto?
    No. It will take a bit longer than that. I think we’ll be back roughly on the 20th anniversary of the first referendum. I don’t rule out being back in the Single Market this decade though.
    Nah, just try and line up the ducks that get us back into the EU, it is absurdly unlikely

    1. Government with huge majority recently elected (and willing to risk it)

    2. Has to do it early on in term

    3. No chance of any EU nation vetoing (oops)

    4. Negotiation of membership goes just fine (oops)

    5. British people willing to join euro and Schenghen

    6. EU doing economically much better than UK

    7. Polls definitively in favour of EU membership again

    8. British people OK with Free Movement

    9. British PM willing to expend enormous capital to make Britain subject to EU laws created by unelected eurocrats, and willing to divide the nation coz this is a good thing??

    Once you look at it like that, you realise it is simply never going to happen. It's done. 2016 was it. The Revolution. C'est finit
    Especially six. Even with the cluster that was the Truss premiership, the UK has still outgrown the EU since the full Brexit happened. And of course their unemployment rate is almost 60% higher.
    The more one thinks about it, the more insane the idea becomes

    Any British PM even contemplating an EU Rejoin referendum will be highly aware of what happened to David Cameron when he confidently called a referendum he was sure he would win 70/30. He lost, and it ended his career, and that is his epitaph: lost the biggest vote ever, and is now seen as a tragic failure

    I am a Leaver, and I am evermore glad we Left, but I do genuinely have an open mind, and yet I cannot foresee circumstances, outside war or some other black swan, when any British PM will risk their entire career to force us back into the EU, and for what? To yield loads of his/her political power and hand it to inferior eurocrats in Brussels? Why? Who would do that? It simply won't ever happen. It's not going to happen. It's done

    What WILL happen is a load of slightly bad tempered bilateral agreements tweaking the single market rules twixt them and us so that we slowly get to a somewhat better place, that suits both sides, this is what happens with Norway and Switzerland etc
    And of course similar bilateral agreements will happen with the USA and Canada and Japan and lots of other places. This is how normal countries exist in the world. On current trends, about two thirds of UK exports will be non-EU in a decade's time. The business interest will run in the other direction.
    "Normal countries" do it like that?

    England doesn't. Scotland doesn't. Ireland doesn't. Wales doesn't. France doesn't. Germany doesn't. Spain doesn't. Russia doesn't (Eurasian Economic Union). Poland doesn't. Italy doesn't. The USA and the half-country North Korea probably do.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,077

    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @LibDems

    Those local election results in full 😉


    We’ve still brexited. And it will never change. Sorry
    You’re right. We cannot change what happened on 31 January 2020. However we can and will rejoin. Sorry. But do keep posting the holiday snaps. They’re super fun!
    Do you think Starmer will put a commitment to a second referendum in the next Labour manifesto?
    No. It will take a bit longer than that. I think we’ll be back roughly on the 20th anniversary of the first referendum. I don’t rule out being back in the Single Market this decade though.
    Nah, just try and line up the ducks that get us back into the EU, it is absurdly unlikely

    1. Government with huge majority recently elected (and willing to risk it)

    2. Has to do it early on in term

    3. No chance of any EU nation vetoing (oops)

    4. Negotiation of membership goes just fine (oops)

    5. British people willing to join euro and Schenghen

    6. EU doing economically much better than UK

    7. Polls definitively in favour of EU membership again

    8. British people OK with Free Movement

    9. British PM willing to expend enormous capital to make Britain subject to EU laws created by unelected eurocrats, and willing to divide the nation coz this is a good thing??

    Once you look at it like that, you realise it is simply never going to happen. It's done. 2016 was it. The Revolution. C'est finit
    Especially six. Even with the cluster that was the Truss premiership, the UK has still outgrown the EU since the full Brexit happened. And of course their unemployment rate is almost 60% higher.
    The more one thinks about it, the more insane the idea becomes

    Any British PM even contemplating an EU Rejoin referendum will be highly aware of what happened to David Cameron when he confidently called a referendum he was sure he would win 70/30. He lost, and it ended his career, and that is his epitaph: lost the biggest vote ever, and is now seen as a tragic failure

    I am a Leaver, and I am evermore glad we Left, but I do genuinely have an open mind, and yet I cannot foresee circumstances, outside war or some other black swan, when any British PM will risk their entire career to force us back into the EU, and for what? To yield loads of his/her political power and hand it to inferior eurocrats in Brussels? Why? Who would do that? It simply won't ever happen. It's not going to happen. It's done

    What WILL happen is a load of slightly bad tempered bilateral agreements tweaking the single market rules twixt them and us so that we slowly get to a somewhat better place, that suits both sides, this is what happens with Norway and Switzerland etc
    I think when you state your biases, you already eliminate yourself as being a valid commentator. You do not wish the UK to return to the EU, therefore your view will prevail. Problem is that if the choice is imperfect EU versus batshit Trump, we are very, very European. "When the facts change, I change my view sir, what do you do?"
    We're not anti-Trump in an us vs. them way like many on the continent. Euro-Gaullism has virtually no support here.
    I think Trump is toxic waste in the UK as much as anywhere... that Truss and other Tories choose to support him is a major reason why the Tories will get a skelping they may never recover from.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603

    The fact that the regulations only apply to phones is another point in favour of my argument that it's mainly a PR exercise. Why not push the regulation out to all electronic devices below a certain wattage?

    They are, this is only phase one. They wanted to tackle the devices that caused the most electronic waste first and then they mandate it for other devices next.

    You are utterly clueless.
    You are utterly credulous.

    Other than the iPhone, the mobile industry had already standardised on USB-C. Arguably the net effect of Apple switching was to create more waste by making people rebuy their accessories.
    Why would they have to re-buy accessories if the industry had already standardised USB-C? You contradict your own argument.

    "Other than the iPhone" - the iPhone is literally the biggest selling single phone in history.
    It's a product line, not a single phone. Apple's market position in Europe has never been as dominant as it is in the US. Android phones have the majority of the market in the EU.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,647
    edited May 4

    The fact that the regulations only apply to phones is another point in favour of my argument that it's mainly a PR exercise. Why not push the regulation out to all electronic devices below a certain wattage?

    They are, this is only phase one. They wanted to tackle the devices that caused the most electronic waste first and then they mandate it for other devices next.

    You are utterly clueless.
    You are utterly credulous.

    Other than the iPhone, the mobile industry had already standardised on USB-C. Arguably the net effect of Apple switching was to create more waste by making people rebuy their accessories.
    Why would they have to re-buy accessories if the industry had already standardised USB-C? You contradict your own argument.

    "Other than the iPhone" - the iPhone is literally the biggest selling single phone in history.
    It's a product line, not a single phone. Apple's market position in Europe has never been as dominant as it is in the US. Android phones have the majority of the market in the EU.
    Android phones, not Android phone. The iPhone is the biggest selling phone in the EU. Nothing comes close to it.

    It is laughable to suggest that forcing Apple to adopt USB-C has not had an impact. As I already posted to you, if the EU had not acted, Apple would still be using Lightning. They were never going to change, why would they?

    Anyway your entire argument was that it was just a marketing exercise. It clearly wasn't as even if Apple had a minority market-share, standardising a single connector is an objectively good idea. And if it was a marketing exercise, why did Apple have to comply with it? Why did they not change until the law was introduced?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700

    Historians will record cancelling HS2 at Manchester conference in huge fanfare as one of the greatest own goals in English politics.

    Amywhere north of Islington heard this as 'fuck you' the capital is all that counts.



    What a ship of fools Sunak captains.

    It was truly baffling to not tell Andy Street about it and have him go and out say it was carrying on, to then get up on stage and announce he was cancelling it.

    And I know the client press lapped it up as "common sense" but anyone could see this was just a sign the Tories had given up on "levelling up" and also had accepted decline. It completely validates the "Britain can't do anything anymore".

    It is truly horrendous politics. He must be one of the most naturally untalented politicians we have ever had.
    2019 - 80 seat landslide: Brexit and levelling up (personified by Boris literally shaking hands with the toiling good folk of the north)


    Oct 2023: Sunak - fuck you


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited May 4

    Fox - who wanted to stand to be London Mayor - and stood for Assembly, announces he is leaving London.

    Is he moving to Birmingham? Just up the road from Oxford where his Morse character was based.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    Andy_JS said:

    What's the one council still to be declared?

    Salford
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603

    The fact that the regulations only apply to phones is another point in favour of my argument that it's mainly a PR exercise. Why not push the regulation out to all electronic devices below a certain wattage?

    They are, this is only phase one. They wanted to tackle the devices that caused the most electronic waste first and then they mandate it for other devices next.

    You are utterly clueless.
    You are utterly credulous.

    Other than the iPhone, the mobile industry had already standardised on USB-C. Arguably the net effect of Apple switching was to create more waste by making people rebuy their accessories.
    Why would they have to re-buy accessories if the industry had already standardised USB-C? You contradict your own argument.

    "Other than the iPhone" - the iPhone is literally the biggest selling single phone in history.
    It's a product line, not a single phone. Apple's market position in Europe has never been as dominant as it is in the US. Android phones have the majority of the market in the EU.
    Android phones, not Android phone. The iPhone is the biggest selling phone in the EU. Nothing comes close to it.

    It is laughable to suggest that forcing Apple to adopt USB-C has not had an impact. As I already posted to you, if the EU had not acted, Apple would still be using Lightning. They were never going to change, why would they?
    Because they were hitting the technical limitations of Lightning. Why did they switch the iPad from Lightning to USB-C long before any EU legislation?
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,647

    The fact that the regulations only apply to phones is another point in favour of my argument that it's mainly a PR exercise. Why not push the regulation out to all electronic devices below a certain wattage?

    They are, this is only phase one. They wanted to tackle the devices that caused the most electronic waste first and then they mandate it for other devices next.

    You are utterly clueless.
    You are utterly credulous.

    Other than the iPhone, the mobile industry had already standardised on USB-C. Arguably the net effect of Apple switching was to create more waste by making people rebuy their accessories.
    Why would they have to re-buy accessories if the industry had already standardised USB-C? You contradict your own argument.

    "Other than the iPhone" - the iPhone is literally the biggest selling single phone in history.
    It's a product line, not a single phone. Apple's market position in Europe has never been as dominant as it is in the US. Android phones have the majority of the market in the EU.
    Android phones, not Android phone. The iPhone is the biggest selling phone in the EU. Nothing comes close to it.

    It is laughable to suggest that forcing Apple to adopt USB-C has not had an impact. As I already posted to you, if the EU had not acted, Apple would still be using Lightning. They were never going to change, why would they?
    Because they were hitting the technical limitations of Lightning. Why did they switch the iPad from Lightning to USB-C long before any EU legislation?
    Because the iPad was competing with the Mac line and they wanted it to support computer accessories.

    Are you saying the executive I gave you was lying when he said they would comply months before they then did? That they were always going to introduce USB-C even though there's no evidence to support your statement?

    Shall we ask the other William Glenn for help, the pro EU one?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700

    Jennifer Williams
    @JenWilliams_FT
    ·
    3h
    I suspect [Andy Street] will be missed among those, on both sides of the political spectrum, who are focused on rebalancing the economy. His brand of pragmatism is not currently the MO of British politics

    https://twitter.com/JenWilliams_FT
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603
    edited May 5

    The fact that the regulations only apply to phones is another point in favour of my argument that it's mainly a PR exercise. Why not push the regulation out to all electronic devices below a certain wattage?

    They are, this is only phase one. They wanted to tackle the devices that caused the most electronic waste first and then they mandate it for other devices next.

    You are utterly clueless.
    You are utterly credulous.

    Other than the iPhone, the mobile industry had already standardised on USB-C. Arguably the net effect of Apple switching was to create more waste by making people rebuy their accessories.
    Why would they have to re-buy accessories if the industry had already standardised USB-C? You contradict your own argument.

    "Other than the iPhone" - the iPhone is literally the biggest selling single phone in history.
    It's a product line, not a single phone. Apple's market position in Europe has never been as dominant as it is in the US. Android phones have the majority of the market in the EU.
    Android phones, not Android phone. The iPhone is the biggest selling phone in the EU. Nothing comes close to it.

    It is laughable to suggest that forcing Apple to adopt USB-C has not had an impact. As I already posted to you, if the EU had not acted, Apple would still be using Lightning. They were never going to change, why would they?
    Because they were hitting the technical limitations of Lightning. Why did they switch the iPad from Lightning to USB-C long before any EU legislation?
    Because the iPad was competing with the Mac line and they wanted it to support computer accessories.

    Are you saying the executive I gave you was lying when he said they would comply months before they then did? That they were always going to introduce USB-C even though there's no evidence to support your statement?

    Shall we ask the other William Glenn for help, the pro EU one?
    The quote you gave didn't say anything at all about whether or not they had been planning to switch anyway.

    There have been persistent suggestions that Apple were planning to switch and it was just a question of timing and whether they might go for a fully portless design instead.

    e.g. see this from 2019:

    https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_rumored_to_switch_to_usbc_for_its_future_iphones_to_resurrect_the_ipod-news-35073.php
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Andy_JS said:

    Fox - who wanted to stand to be London Mayor - and stood for Assembly, announces he is leaving London.

    Is he moving to Birmingham? Just up the road from Oxford where his Morse character was based.
    Hope not. Brum is a decent place full of good babs.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited May 5
    6% for RefUK on the London list vote is slightly higher than I was expecting. Suggests they could be in double figures in the rest of the country, as the polls indicate.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_London_Assembly_election
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    GIN1138 said:

    What a lovely day.

    HAHA

    After years and years of abject misery and failure... Enjoy!

    (The climax - 2024 general election - Is still to come - but I'm sure this weekend has been awesome foreplay 😂 )
    It was also a lovely day, hiking in the sunshine, many ales, a lovely day.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Ulez is arguably the greatest piece of environmental public policy ever delivered in a major city, worldwide. Other cities will surely now follow.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Andy_JS said:

    What's the one council still to be declared?

    Who cares?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    edited May 5
    GIN1138 said:


    Glen O'Hara
    @gsoh31
    ·
    1h
    The Tories' fate has long been sealed, but they made it far, far worse when they went down the National Populist road. People just want to sign up with a dentist, phone a GP, get a bus on time. Simple things.

    Like I've said before, Rishi started off quite well and I think he could have taken the Tories to a very respectable defeat but the turning point was when they held on to Uxbridge and I think he thought that by going down the Populist route/taxing to the right, he might be able to actually win the election.

    It was terrible miscalculation, although also a very human one. I can understand no one wants to be the leader that's holding the baton when the party gets turfed out of office, but by trying to force things rather than accepting the inevitable graciously, he has made things much worse they needed to be.
    Yes, making London’s air quality worse isn’t a great retail offer to the capital’s public. Khan has shown leadership on the environment, and he’s won a landslide.
This discussion has been closed.