Are the Tories at a better or worse position than Labour going into the 2019 election?
Worse. Locals are better than 1995/6 for the Tories, but the by-elections though not breaking the absolute records set then are consistently worse now tbh
INSIDE WESTMINSTER: How 'coiled mamba' Boris could come back to save the Tories from total annihilation - even though Rishi 'hasn't picked up the phone' | Daily Mail Online
There’ll be psychology textbooks written about that woman
How's about TV series featuring Mad Nad stand-in, solving Woke-inspired and/or trans-perpetrated murders from Wick to Wookey Hole? Think "Murder, She Wrote" taken to dark, weird extremes by an certifiable (in more ways than one) extremist.
Andy Street is a decent guy. That's how you give a losing speech.
He should join Labour.
This place tonight is rather nasty. It’s perfectly possible to be a conservative and be a decent guy. Being conservative is a view of how the world works, and how you think the country should be run. Being labour has different views on that. Their is an astonishingly nasty streak of some posters on here tonight (not talking about you, horse). The bile is coming from the left. It’s time for Labour to have their go at running the country. But to here some, a party that was in tatters a few short years ago are set for a decade of power, all before a single vote in the GE has been cast. Hubris, I name thee Heathener.
Sorry dude, but this "I'm very sad because bile is directed at the tories" line feels very pathetic. The Tories have made a bloody mess over the last five years in the most arrogant, inconsiderate way possible. The reason Street gets so much kudos is he isn't that person. He's what the tory party could be if they weren't full of people who are corrupt, incompetent, stupid or borderline evil. That's why they cop the sharp edge of the tongue. Just like Labour did under Corbyn. The lesson is simple: be better.
I’m not trying to defend the Tories, far from it. It’s just the tone from some posters is rather nasty.
It’s easy and in my view rather lazy the blame the incumbent government during a once in a century pandemic and a major European war with resulting surgedvinflation for all the ills of the country. Starmer and Labour will not find many easy answers out there. I wish that there were.
Well. There are failed Tory policies over the past 14 years as well, if you need summat else to blame.
Andy Street: ‘Remember that this brand of moderate, inclusive, tolerant, conservatism came within an ace of winning here in Labour’s backyard’ (Sky News)
Any of you tories out there feel like listening?
I could see, in a future where the Tories get their shit together, Street leading a Roosveltian Tory party. You'd need to stuff the loons in their box though.
When you say "Rooseveltian" are you referring to Theodore OR to Franklin?
Or possibly Eleanor, who IF she were Spanish, would have been, Roosevelt y Roosevelt.
Reckon that re: Street and Tories, TR is likely best fit among the Roosevelts, Sagamore Hill or Hyde Park.
Yes, sorry Teddy. He's my secret conservative poltical crush. Anyone who can be shot during the speech and just carry on is alright by me.
The fact Andy Street lost the West Midlands, a key swing region, by just over 1000 votes really is not the basis for a leadership challenge.
Far more significant is the fact that on NEV from the local elections Labour is not even heading for a clear majority let alone a landslide so there is plenty of opportunity for Rishi to squeeze the gap, especially by winning over voters who voted LD or Independent on Thursday.
The fact Reform failed to beat the Tories in Blackpool South also shows Rishi has the chance to squeeze their vote as well.
Hall, despite losing, also got a higher voteshare in London than Boris in 2019 and Houchen won Tees Valley, so it could certainly have been an even worse series of results for the Tories and PM than it was
Andy Street is a decent guy. That's how you give a losing speech.
He should join Labour.
This place tonight is rather nasty. It’s perfectly possible to be a conservative and be a decent guy. Being conservative is a view of how the world works, and how you think the country should be run. Being labour has different views on that. Their is an astonishingly nasty streak of some posters on here tonight (not talking about you, horse). The bile is coming from the left. It’s time for Labour to have their go at running the country. But to here some, a party that was in tatters a few short years ago are set for a decade of power, all before a single vote in the GE has been cast. Hubris, I name thee Heathener.
Sorry dude, but this "I'm very sad because bile is directed at the tories" line feels very pathetic. The Tories have made a bloody mess over the last five years in the most arrogant, inconsiderate way possible. The reason Street gets so much kudos is he isn't that person. He's what the tory party could be if they weren't full of people who are corrupt, incompetent, stupid or borderline evil. That's why they cop the sharp edge of the tongue. Just like Labour did under Corbyn. The lesson is simple: be better.
I’m not trying to defend the Tories, far from it. It’s just the tone from some posters is rather nasty.
It’s easy and in my view rather lazy the blame the incumbent government during a once in a century pandemic and a major European war with resulting surgedvinflation for all the ills of the country. Starmer and Labour will not find many easy answers out there. I wish that there were.
I'm sorry, what?
Are you saying we shouldn't blame the Tories for partying through lockdown - illegally - against their own advice?
I think everyone agrees they handled the vaccine rollout well and the pandemic itself the UK was middling but not terrible.
But what has anything since then got to do with it?
Boris Johnson chose to lie - nothing to do with COVID The Tories chose to defend Johnson's lies - nothing to do with COVID They chose to elect Liz Truss - nothing to do with COVID Rishi Sunak chose to cancel HS2 - nothing to do with COVID Rishi Sunak chose to pursue an electoral strategy based on one London seat - nothing to do with COVID
I think the Tories have been dealt a bad hand - and played it incredibly badly. You can't honestly say at this point Labour would have done any of those things with a straight face.
Covid was a huge hit financially, hit schooling with the potential effects lasting a decade, hit healthcare hugely. If you can see the effects of covid, then you need to look a bit harder.
Andy Street is a decent guy. That's how you give a losing speech.
He should join Labour.
This place tonight is rather nasty. It’s perfectly possible to be a conservative and be a decent guy. Being conservative is a view of how the world works, and how you think the country should be run. Being labour has different views on that. Their is an astonishingly nasty streak of some posters on here tonight (not talking about you, horse). The bile is coming from the left. It’s time for Labour to have their go at running the country. But to here some, a party that was in tatters a few short years ago are set for a decade of power, all before a single vote in the GE has been cast. Hubris, I name thee Heathener.
Sorry dude, but this "I'm very sad because bile is directed at the tories" line feels very pathetic. The Tories have made a bloody mess over the last five years in the most arrogant, inconsiderate way possible. The reason Street gets so much kudos is he isn't that person. He's what the tory party could be if they weren't full of people who are corrupt, incompetent, stupid or borderline evil. That's why they cop the sharp edge of the tongue. Just like Labour did under Corbyn. The lesson is simple: be better.
I have a lot of respect for conservatives. I even liked Sunak and said so on here openly and repeatedly.
The problem is this: the Conservative Party are not conservatives. What is conservative about record high taxes? Fucking business and our place in the world? Performative cruelty? Gross incompetence and corruption costing the public purse billions?
Turbo defends the conservative way of how the world works - so he must be even more disgusted and appalled and repulsed by the party than those of us who lean the other way.
Conservatives talk a lot about moral issues. Basic right and wrong. This party is wrong. Deeply, dangerously wrong.
Andy Street is a decent guy. That's how you give a losing speech.
He should join Labour.
This place tonight is rather nasty. It’s perfectly possible to be a conservative and be a decent guy. Being conservative is a view of how the world works, and how you think the country should be run. Being labour has different views on that. Their is an astonishingly nasty streak of some posters on here tonight (not talking about you, horse). The bile is coming from the left. It’s time for Labour to have their go at running the country. But to here some, a party that was in tatters a few short years ago are set for a decade of power, all before a single vote in the GE has been cast. Hubris, I name thee Heathener.
Sorry dude, but this "I'm very sad because bile is directed at the tories" line feels very pathetic. The Tories have made a bloody mess over the last five years in the most arrogant, inconsiderate way possible. The reason Street gets so much kudos is he isn't that person. He's what the tory party could be if they weren't full of people who are corrupt, incompetent, stupid or borderline evil. That's why they cop the sharp edge of the tongue. Just like Labour did under Corbyn. The lesson is simple: be better.
I’m not trying to defend the Tories, far from it. It’s just the tone from some posters is rather nasty.
It’s easy and in my view rather lazy the blame the incumbent government during a once in a century pandemic and a major European war with resulting surgedvinflation for all the ills of the country. Starmer and Labour will not find many easy answers out there. I wish that there were.
I'm sorry, what?
Are you saying we shouldn't blame the Tories for partying through lockdown - illegally - against their own advice?
I think everyone agrees they handled the vaccine rollout well and the pandemic itself the UK was middling but not terrible.
But what has anything since then got to do with it?
Boris Johnson chose to lie - nothing to do with COVID The Tories chose to defend Johnson's lies - nothing to do with COVID They chose to elect Liz Truss - nothing to do with COVID Rishi Sunak chose to cancel HS2 - nothing to do with COVID Rishi Sunak chose to pursue an electoral strategy based on one London seat - nothing to do with COVID
I think the Tories have been dealt a bad hand - and played it incredibly badly. You can't honestly say at this point Labour would have done any of those things with a straight face.
Covid was a huge hit financially, hit schooling with the potential effects lasting a decade, hit healthcare hugely. If you can see the effects of covid, then you need to look a bit harder.
Are you saying any of that impacts any of what the Tories have done?
How does public finances impact Johnson's lying or not lying?
Just looking at the vote by Borough in the Surrey Police Commissioner election and it is interesting. Guildford with no elections and therefore a lower turnout, but a top LD target for the GE, had a small majority for the Tory. In Woking and Mole Valley with intensive campaigning for the locals had significant majorities for the LD candidate. Both will be targeted in the GE but not as hight as Guildford. It might be obvious but local campaigning clearly makes a big difference.
The fact Andy Street lost the West Midlands, a key swing region, by a few 100 votes really is not the basis for a leadership challenge.
Far more significant is the fact that on NEV from the local elections Labour is not even heading for a clear majority let alone a landslide so there is plenty of opportunity for Rishi to squeeze the gap, especially by winning over voters who voted LD or Independent on Thursday.
The fact Reform failed to beat the Tories in Blackpool South also shows Rishi has the chance to squeeze their vote as well.
Hall, despite losing, also got a higher voteshare in London than Boris in 2019 and Houchen won Tees Valley, so it could certainly have been an even worse series of results for the Tories and PM than it was
The fact Andy Street lost the West Midlands, a key swing region, by a few 100 votes really is not the basis for a leadership challenge.
Far more significant is the fact that on NEV from the local elections Labour is not even heading for a clear majority let alone a landslide so there is plenty of opportunity for Rishi to squeeze the gap, especially by winning over voters who voted LD or Independent on Thursday.
The fact Reform failed to beat the Tories in Blackpool South also shows Rishi has the chance to squeeze their vote as well.
Hall, despite losing, also got a higher voteshare in London than Boris in 2019 and Houchen won Tees Valley, so it could certainly have been an even worse series of results for the Tories and PM than it was
Ah, I see we're clinging on to the "NEV in locals = general election" flotsam are we? Well. We'll see.
Are the Tories at a better or worse position than Labour going into the 2019 election?
Worse
Care to elaborate?
In 2019 the Tories still had a clear and compelling argument for their reelection which resonated with a lot of people, to get Brexit done, whilst Labour had a widely disliked Leader who could not take advantage of the weaknesses of a 9 year government which had faced a lot of internal mess over the same issue, again largely because of issues associated with, stemming from, or unable to be addressed because of their leader, whose personal following was not as keen as it was in 2017.
In 2024 Labour have a leader who is not disliked even if he is not loved, ample evidence of electoral momentum to point to Labour's credibility to take up office again, the even more significant weight of now 14 years of Tory government to oppose including severe economic impacts which, even if not the government's fault, will make people poorly disposed to them. Conversely, the Tories have destroyed their credibility through leadership switches, and none of them have been very good, the government has no major successes to its name, it is losing voters from right to Reform, and centre to Labour and LDs, and it is still deeply, deeply divided with even many Tories happy to see them lose, either because it is time for a change, for revenge for ousting Boris, or because of dissatisfaction with its conservative output.
What is so incredibly disappointing is that the Tories literally watched Labour commit electoral suicide for years and then have decided to copy them. It is baffling.
It is quite clear the Tories need to stop pandering to the right wing reactionary vote, the pensioners and get back to the middle ground, offering things to younger voters and those that work. Perhaps that includes a bit of nationalisation, perhaps it includes a bit of planning reform.
What they need to do is not that difficult. But they seem to be intent on calling me and anyone under the age of 95 feckless, lazy, woke and a snowflake. I have honestly lost the idea they even want my vote - as HYUFD keeps telling me, I am irrelevant.
The “lefty lawyers” thing. Yes, I know I’m not a Tory voter, but I am former LibDem, and gave Cameron a hearing. But I had to abandon my professional Twitter account that had as its header “Employment and Business Immigration Lawyer” because of the abuse I was getting. They seem to want to piss everyone off save for a mythical 75 year old male who divides his time between Godalming and Barnsley.
Andy Street is a decent guy. That's how you give a losing speech.
He should join Labour.
This place tonight is rather nasty. It’s perfectly possible to be a conservative and be a decent guy. Being conservative is a view of how the world works, and how you think the country should be run. Being labour has different views on that. Their is an astonishingly nasty streak of some posters on here tonight (not talking about you, horse). The bile is coming from the left. It’s time for Labour to have their go at running the country. But to here some, a party that was in tatters a few short years ago are set for a decade of power, all before a single vote in the GE has been cast. Hubris, I name thee Heathener.
Sorry dude, but this "I'm very sad because bile is directed at the tories" line feels very pathetic. The Tories have made a bloody mess over the last five years in the most arrogant, inconsiderate way possible. The reason Street gets so much kudos is he isn't that person. He's what the tory party could be if they weren't full of people who are corrupt, incompetent, stupid or borderline evil. That's why they cop the sharp edge of the tongue. Just like Labour did under Corbyn. The lesson is simple: be better.
I have a lot of respect for conservatives. I even liked Sunak and said so on here openly and repeatedly.
The problem is this: the Conservative Party are not conservatives. What is conservative about record high taxes? Fucking business and our place in the world? Performative cruelty? Gross incompetence and corruption costing the public purse billions?
Turbo defends the conservative way of how the world works - so he must be even more disgusted and appalled and repulsed by the party than those of us who lean the other way.
Conservatives talk a lot about moral issues. Basic right and wrong. This party is wrong. Deeply, dangerously wrong.
True that. These people aren't Tories. They've forgotten where the centre is and drifted further and further rightward. This isn't the USA, their core vote still believes in basic decency, fairness, the NHS, the poorest in society having enough to eat. They also don't want their mortgages to double because you voted in a total fucking loon as PM accidentally.
The fact Andy Street lost the West Midlands, a key swing region, by just over 1000 votes really is not the basis for a leadership challenge.
Far more significant is the fact that on NEV from the local elections Labour is not even heading for a clear majority let alone a landslide so there is plenty of opportunity for Rishi to squeeze the gap, especially by winning over voters who voted LD or Independent on Thursday.
The fact Reform failed to beat the Tories in Blackpool South also shows Rishi has the chance to squeeze their vote as well.
Hall, despite losing, also got a higher voteshare in London than Boris in 2019 and Houchen won Tees Valley, so it could certainly have been an even worse series of results for the Tories and PM than it was
Lets assume the Tories move for Sunak. Lets further assume that having sent the likes of Richard Holden and Andrew Mitchell into bat that Sunak ends up in the Yousless position.
Shall we line up the runners and riders for the Tory salvation gig? Priti Patel - mad Suella Braverman - mad Penny Mordaunt - ineffective Rehman Chisti - its Chisti time Boris Johnson - because hopium Liz Truss
Anyone else?
This is why they wont in the end move.
It is all piss and wind or whatever the expression de jour is.
Only Johnson makes sense as a 'what the fuck, nothing to lose here and he might just pull something off' candidate.
Couldn’t get back into Parliament. Unless ennobled, and that would decrease the Tory vote even further.
For years, have been urging (from afar) creation by HM of a Lord Dingleberry.
Boris Johnson would appear extraordinarily well-qualified for this particular peerage.
Andy Street: ‘Remember that this brand of moderate, inclusive, tolerant, conservatism came within an ace of winning here in Labour’s backyard … the message is clear: winning from the centre ground is key.' (Sky News)
Any of you tories out there feel like listening?
It's the future for the party but the Midlands have not been Labour's backyard since at least 2010. The Midlands, both east and west was where the Tory majorities have come from over the last 14 years on an increasing trend up to 2019. We now seem to be having a spectacular U turn. There will be absolute carnage there at the GE.
Andy Street is a decent guy. That's how you give a losing speech.
He should join Labour.
This place tonight is rather nasty. It’s perfectly possible to be a conservative and be a decent guy. Being conservative is a view of how the world works, and how you think the country should be run. Being labour has different views on that. Their is an astonishingly nasty streak of some posters on here tonight (not talking about you, horse). The bile is coming from the left. It’s time for Labour to have their go at running the country. But to here some, a party that was in tatters a few short years ago are set for a decade of power, all before a single vote in the GE has been cast. Hubris, I name thee Heathener.
Sorry dude, but this "I'm very sad because bile is directed at the tories" line feels very pathetic. The Tories have made a bloody mess over the last five years in the most arrogant, inconsiderate way possible. The reason Street gets so much kudos is he isn't that person. He's what the tory party could be if they weren't full of people who are corrupt, incompetent, stupid or borderline evil. That's why they cop the sharp edge of the tongue. Just like Labour did under Corbyn. The lesson is simple: be better.
I’m not trying to defend the Tories, far from it. It’s just the tone from some posters is rather nasty.
It’s easy and in my view rather lazy the blame the incumbent government during a once in a century pandemic and a major European war with resulting surgedvinflation for all the ills of the country. Starmer and Labour will not find many easy answers out there. I wish that there were.
Sure, but governments get saddled with crises. How they deal with them is definitional. FDR and Churchill with the Second World War, Callaghan and the Winter of Discontent, Thatcher and the Falklands, Johnson and Covid. You can deal with them with grace, stoicism, wit and steel like Winston and Thatch. You can blunder wildly through like Callaghan. Or you can careen around, trying to fool the electorate and lying through your teeth like Johnson. One of those will win the respect of the electorate (if not necessarily their vote). One will lose their vote and their respect. And one will piss them off royally. I'm really not surprised that people think the Tories are like poop on the sole of their shoe.
Bear in mind, you can rise to the challenge of a crisis, and the voters will still hate you for it and kick you out.
Truman was one of the greatest US Presidents - and despised when he left office. It’s only subsequently that his reputation has risen.
Shall we line up the runners and riders for the Tory salvation gig? Priti Patel - mad Suella Braverman - mad Penny Mordaunt - ineffective Rehman Chisti - its Chisti time Boris Johnson - because hopium Liz Truss
Anyone else?
You also need to map which ones can hold their seat...
I don't think that's necessary. If the election is terrible, what would the point be of keeping the leader anyway? If anything, the more vulnerable the seat the better - it's an incentive for the leader to perform well to avert the loss of their seat.
It looks like the requirement for photo ID didn't save the Tory bacon.
I hope there is a proper analysis of who was turned away or otherwise prevented.
Time to limit it to over sixty five bus pass?
Elvis bus pass?
The strange thing is neither my wife or I have been on a bus in decades, maybe back to when we lived in Edinburgh in the early 1960s and certainly we have not used a bus pass
I should clarify we have been on coach tour buses but that is different
Lets assume the Tories move for Sunak. Lets further assume that having sent the likes of Richard Holden and Andrew Mitchell into bat that Sunak ends up in the Yousless position.
Shall we line up the runners and riders for the Tory salvation gig? Priti Patel - mad Suella Braverman - mad Penny Mordaunt - ineffective Rehman Chisti - its Chisti time Boris Johnson - because hopium Liz Truss
Anyone else?
This is why they wont in the end move.
It is all piss and wind or whatever the expression de jour is.
Only Johnson makes sense as a 'what the fuck, nothing to lose here and he might just pull something off' candidate.
I sort of disagree. I think Mordaunt could give them a bump in polls if she held an election quickly after becoming leader, before being found out.
At most she might get a brief bounce but she would soon be found out as over promoted as PM, she is mid rank Cabinet material level at most, not even great Office of State level yet alone PM.
Mordaunt is perfectly decent and hardworking but is much less intelligent than Rishi and doesn't have the statute or presence needed for the top job. Rishi will lead the Tories into the next GE, there is no viable alternative in Parliament now and if he loses and takes the blame for defeat then the Conservatives have the time to decide what direction they want the party to go into in Opposition
Andy Street is a decent guy. That's how you give a losing speech.
He should join Labour.
This place tonight is rather nasty. It’s perfectly possible to be a conservative and be a decent guy. Being conservative is a view of how the world works, and how you think the country should be run. Being labour has different views on that. Their is an astonishingly nasty streak of some posters on here tonight (not talking about you, horse). The bile is coming from the left. It’s time for Labour to have their go at running the country. But to here some, a party that was in tatters a few short years ago are set for a decade of power, all before a single vote in the GE has been cast. Hubris, I name thee Heathener.
Sorry dude, but this "I'm very sad because bile is directed at the tories" line feels very pathetic. The Tories have made a bloody mess over the last five years in the most arrogant, inconsiderate way possible. The reason Street gets so much kudos is he isn't that person. He's what the tory party could be if they weren't full of people who are corrupt, incompetent, stupid or borderline evil. That's why they cop the sharp edge of the tongue. Just like Labour did under Corbyn. The lesson is simple: be better.
I’m not trying to defend the Tories, far from it. It’s just the tone from some posters is rather nasty.
It’s easy and in my view rather lazy the blame the incumbent government during a once in a century pandemic and a major European war with resulting surgedvinflation for all the ills of the country. Starmer and Labour will not find many easy answers out there. I wish that there were.
I'm sorry, what?
Are you saying we shouldn't blame the Tories for partying through lockdown - illegally - against their own advice?
I think everyone agrees they handled the vaccine rollout well and the pandemic itself the UK was middling but not terrible.
But what has anything since then got to do with it?
Boris Johnson chose to lie - nothing to do with COVID The Tories chose to defend Johnson's lies - nothing to do with COVID They chose to elect Liz Truss - nothing to do with COVID Rishi Sunak chose to cancel HS2 - nothing to do with COVID Rishi Sunak chose to pursue an electoral strategy based on one London seat - nothing to do with COVID
I think the Tories have been dealt a bad hand - and played it incredibly badly. You can't honestly say at this point Labour would have done any of those things with a straight face.
Covid was a huge hit financially, hit schooling with the potential effects lasting a decade, hit healthcare hugely. If you can see the effects of covid, then you need to look a bit harder.
Are you saying any of that impacts any of what the Tories have done?
How does public finances impact Johnson's lying or not lying?
Johnson was an arse and I’m glad he’s gone and is not coming back. But the public finance constrain what governments can do. How many schools you can rebuild, how many doctors you can pay etc. This version of the Tories are getting most things wrong. I think cancelling HS2 was wrong, Inthink Rwanda is wrong. I’ll be voting for labour at the GE. But I think it’s right to appreciate the challenges thrown at the government since 2019.
Andy Street is a decent guy. That's how you give a losing speech.
He should join Labour.
This place tonight is rather nasty. It’s perfectly possible to be a conservative and be a decent guy. Being conservative is a view of how the world works, and how you think the country should be run. Being labour has different views on that. Their is an astonishingly nasty streak of some posters on here tonight (not talking about you, horse). The bile is coming from the left. It’s time for Labour to have their go at running the country. But to here some, a party that was in tatters a few short years ago are set for a decade of power, all before a single vote in the GE has been cast. Hubris, I name thee Heathener.
Sorry dude, but this "I'm very sad because bile is directed at the tories" line feels very pathetic. The Tories have made a bloody mess over the last five years in the most arrogant, inconsiderate way possible. The reason Street gets so much kudos is he isn't that person. He's what the tory party could be if they weren't full of people who are corrupt, incompetent, stupid or borderline evil. That's why they cop the sharp edge of the tongue. Just like Labour did under Corbyn. The lesson is simple: be better.
I’m not trying to defend the Tories, far from it. It’s just the tone from some posters is rather nasty.
It’s easy and in my view rather lazy the blame the incumbent government during a once in a century pandemic and a major European war with resulting surgedvinflation for all the ills of the country. Starmer and Labour will not find many easy answers out there. I wish that there were.
I'm sorry, what?
Are you saying we shouldn't blame the Tories for partying through lockdown - illegally - against their own advice?
I think everyone agrees they handled the vaccine rollout well and the pandemic itself the UK was middling but not terrible.
But what has anything since then got to do with it?
Boris Johnson chose to lie - nothing to do with COVID The Tories chose to defend Johnson's lies - nothing to do with COVID They chose to elect Liz Truss - nothing to do with COVID Rishi Sunak chose to cancel HS2 - nothing to do with COVID Rishi Sunak chose to pursue an electoral strategy based on one London seat - nothing to do with COVID
I think the Tories have been dealt a bad hand - and played it incredibly badly. You can't honestly say at this point Labour would have done any of those things with a straight face.
Covid was a huge hit financially, hit schooling with the potential effects lasting a decade, hit healthcare hugely. If you can see the effects of covid, then you need to look a bit harder.
Yes. And what's your solution? Freeze special needs funding at 2010 levels (in actual not real terms), and pretend to cut taxes whilst raising them.
Good spot by @SamCoatesSky: the swing to Labour in Tees Valley was bigger than the swing in the West Midlands.
Even silver lining vibe for government falls apart on paper.
A good spot? That a political editor didn't see? But has been mentioned numerous times on here?
Most political editors do not seem like authentic politics nerds to me.
Maybe that's necessary to keep a certain high level perspective on things, but sometimes they just miss obvious details and seem more like standard pundits whose job is to be perennially surprised by events for the public to make it seem exciting, the TV equivalent of those irritating twitch streamers who overreact to horror games.
Johnson was an arse and I’m glad he’s gone and is not coming back. But the public finance constrain what governments can do. How many schools you can rebuild, how many doctors you can pay etc. This version of the Tories are getting most things wrong. I think cancelling HS2 was wrong, Inthink Rwanda is wrong. I’ll be voting for labour at the GE. But I think it’s right to appreciate the challenges thrown at the government since 2019.
But you didn't respond to any of the points I made, that have nothing to do with the finances.
You're reminding me of myself when Corbyn was about to lose.
Can you point to a single thing the Tories have actually done since 2010? A single positive change they've actually made?
I'll name one: gay marriage.
Apart from that, can you really agree that they've really done anything?
The fact Andy Street lost the West Midlands, a key swing region, by just over 1000 votes really is not the basis for a leadership challenge.
Far more significant is the fact that on NEV from the local elections Labour is not even heading for a clear majority let alone a landslide so there is plenty of opportunity for Rishi to squeeze the gap, especially by winning over voters who voted LD or Independent on Thursday.
The fact Reform failed to beat the Tories in Blackpool South also shows Rishi has the chance to squeeze their vote as well.
Hall, despite losing, also got a higher voteshare in London than Boris in 2019 and Houchen won Tees Valley, so it could certainly have been an even worse series of results for the Tories and PM than it was
They should send you out on the media round instead of your chairman.
The fact Andy Street lost the West Midlands, a key swing region, by a few 100 votes really is not the basis for a leadership challenge.
Far more significant is the fact that on NEV from the local elections Labour is not even heading for a clear majority let alone a landslide so there is plenty of opportunity for Rishi to squeeze the gap, especially by winning over voters who voted LD or Independent on Thursday.
The fact Reform failed to beat the Tories in Blackpool South also shows Rishi has the chance to squeeze their vote as well.
Hall, despite losing, also got a higher voteshare in London than Boris in 2019 and Houchen won Tees Valley, so it could certainly have been an even worse series of results for the Tories and PM than it was
Ah, I see we're clinging on to the "NEV in locals = general election" flotsam are we? Well. We'll see.
Andy Street is a decent guy. That's how you give a losing speech.
He should join Labour.
This place tonight is rather nasty. It’s perfectly possible to be a conservative and be a decent guy. Being conservative is a view of how the world works, and how you think the country should be run. Being labour has different views on that. Their is an astonishingly nasty streak of some posters on here tonight (not talking about you, horse). The bile is coming from the left. It’s time for Labour to have their go at running the country. But to here some, a party that was in tatters a few short years ago are set for a decade of power, all before a single vote in the GE has been cast. Hubris, I name thee Heathener.
When I read a post like that waxing lyrical about todays Conservatives with... Suella.... Priti..... Rwanda .....Boris.....Rees-Mogg ......Liz Truss etc I'm reminded of the review of the book " How Green Were the Nazis?'
The fact Andy Street lost the West Midlands, a key swing region, by a few 100 votes really is not the basis for a leadership challenge.
Far more significant is the fact that on NEV from the local elections Labour is not even heading for a clear majority let alone a landslide so there is plenty of opportunity for Rishi to squeeze the gap, especially by winning over voters who voted LD or Independent on Thursday.
The fact Reform failed to beat the Tories in Blackpool South also shows Rishi has the chance to squeeze their vote as well.
Hall, despite losing, also got a higher voteshare in London than Boris in 2019 and Houchen won Tees Valley, so it could certainly have been an even worse series of results for the Tories and PM than it was
Andy Street: ‘Remember that this brand of moderate, inclusive, tolerant, conservatism came within an ace of winning here in Labour’s backyard … the message is clear: winning from the centre ground is key.' (Sky News)
Any of you tories out there feel like listening?
It's the future for the party but the Midlands have not been Labour's backyard since at least 2010. The Midlands, both east and west was where the Tory majorities have come from over the last 14 years on an increasing trend up to 2019. We now seem to be having a spectacular U turn. There will be absolute carnage there at the GE.
Andy Street is a decent guy. That's how you give a losing speech.
He should join Labour.
This place tonight is rather nasty. It’s perfectly possible to be a conservative and be a decent guy. Being conservative is a view of how the world works, and how you think the country should be run. Being labour has different views on that. Their is an astonishingly nasty streak of some posters on here tonight (not talking about you, horse). The bile is coming from the left. It’s time for Labour to have their go at running the country. But to here some, a party that was in tatters a few short years ago are set for a decade of power, all before a single vote in the GE has been cast. Hubris, I name thee Heathener.
Sorry dude, but this "I'm very sad because bile is directed at the tories" line feels very pathetic. The Tories have made a bloody mess over the last five years in the most arrogant, inconsiderate way possible. The reason Street gets so much kudos is he isn't that person. He's what the tory party could be if they weren't full of people who are corrupt, incompetent, stupid or borderline evil. That's why they cop the sharp edge of the tongue. Just like Labour did under Corbyn. The lesson is simple: be better.
I’m not trying to defend the Tories, far from it. It’s just the tone from some posters is rather nasty.
It’s easy and in my view rather lazy the blame the incumbent government during a once in a century pandemic and a major European war with resulting surgedvinflation for all the ills of the country. Starmer and Labour will not find many easy answers out there. I wish that there were.
Sure, but governments get saddled with crises. How they deal with them is definitional. FDR and Churchill with the Second World War, Callaghan and the Winter of Discontent, Thatcher and the Falklands, Johnson and Covid. You can deal with them with grace, stoicism, wit and steel like Winston and Thatch. You can blunder wildly through like Callaghan. Or you can careen around, trying to fool the electorate and lying through your teeth like Johnson. One of those will win the respect of the electorate (if not necessarily their vote). One will lose their vote and their respect. And one will piss them off royally. I'm really not surprised that people think the Tories are like poop on the sole of their shoe.
Bear in mind, you can rise to the challenge of a crisis, and the voters will still hate you for it and kick you out.
Truman was one of the greatest US Presidents - and despised when he left office. It’s only subsequently that his reputation has risen.
Covered by the parenthesis, Winston being the archetypical example. But he still won again ten years later. That's the thing about handling crises well, you might not be thanked for it but you'll get a grudging acceptance of it that buoys your stock. Screw up though and people will not be forgiving. Screw up and behave like a frat boy and you'll really be hated.
I doubt if the Mail has any handle at all on how many people find Rayner's story quite moving.
Certainly I can't read a story of incompetent tax and benefit blagging like that without tearing up a bit. The best bit is, it all arises out of a headline policy of Thatcher, M.
The fact Andy Street lost the West Midlands, a key swing region, by a few 100 votes really is not the basis for a leadership challenge.
Far more significant is the fact that on NEV from the local elections Labour is not even heading for a clear majority let alone a landslide so there is plenty of opportunity for Rishi to squeeze the gap, especially by winning over voters who voted LD or Independent on Thursday.
The fact Reform failed to beat the Tories in Blackpool South also shows Rishi has the chance to squeeze their vote as well.
Hall, despite losing, also got a higher voteshare in London than Boris in 2019 and Houchen won Tees Valley, so it could certainly have been an even worse series of results for the Tories and PM than it was
Johnson was an arse and I’m glad he’s gone and is not coming back. But the public finance constrain what governments can do. How many schools you can rebuild, how many doctors you can pay etc. This version of the Tories are getting most things wrong. I think cancelling HS2 was wrong, Inthink Rwanda is wrong. I’ll be voting for labour at the GE. But I think it’s right to appreciate the challenges thrown at the government since 2019.
But you didn't respond to any of the points I made, that have nothing to do with the finances.
You're reminding me of myself when Corbyn was about to lose.
Can you point to a single thing the Tories have actually done since 2010? A single positive change they've actually made?
I'll name one: gay marriage.
Apart from that, can you really agree that they've really done anything?
Andy Street is a decent guy. That's how you give a losing speech.
He should join Labour.
This place tonight is rather nasty. It’s perfectly possible to be a conservative and be a decent guy. Being conservative is a view of how the world works, and how you think the country should be run. Being labour has different views on that. Their is an astonishingly nasty streak of some posters on here tonight (not talking about you, horse). The bile is coming from the left. It’s time for Labour to have their go at running the country. But to here some, a party that was in tatters a few short years ago are set for a decade of power, all before a single vote in the GE has been cast. Hubris, I name thee Heathener.
Sorry dude, but this "I'm very sad because bile is directed at the tories" line feels very pathetic. The Tories have made a bloody mess over the last five years in the most arrogant, inconsiderate way possible. The reason Street gets so much kudos is he isn't that person. He's what the tory party could be if they weren't full of people who are corrupt, incompetent, stupid or borderline evil. That's why they cop the sharp edge of the tongue. Just like Labour did under Corbyn. The lesson is simple: be better.
I’m not trying to defend the Tories, far from it. It’s just the tone from some posters is rather nasty.
It’s easy and in my view rather lazy the blame the incumbent government during a once in a century pandemic and a major European war with resulting surgedvinflation for all the ills of the country. Starmer and Labour will not find many easy answers out there. I wish that there were.
I'm sorry, what?
Are you saying we shouldn't blame the Tories for partying through lockdown - illegally - against their own advice?
I think everyone agrees they handled the vaccine rollout well and the pandemic itself the UK was middling but not terrible.
But what has anything since then got to do with it?
Boris Johnson chose to lie - nothing to do with COVID The Tories chose to defend Johnson's lies - nothing to do with COVID They chose to elect Liz Truss - nothing to do with COVID Rishi Sunak chose to cancel HS2 - nothing to do with COVID Rishi Sunak chose to pursue an electoral strategy based on one London seat - nothing to do with COVID
I think the Tories have been dealt a bad hand - and played it incredibly badly. You can't honestly say at this point Labour would have done any of those things with a straight face.
Covid was a huge hit financially, hit schooling with the potential effects lasting a decade, hit healthcare hugely. If you can see the effects of covid, then you need to look a bit harder.
Yes. And what's your solution? Freeze special needs funding at 2010 levels (in actual not real terms), and pretend to cut taxes whilst raising them.
My solution? I’m not in government and I’m not a Tory (certainly not the current bunch). I interact mostly with undergrads in teaching terms. There is no doubt many of them suffered with covid restrictions. That said, it’s undeniable that they have become far more flaky too. I don’t know why, but the resilience has gone. Perhaps it just abuse of the system but the numbe4 of students on our course who claim extra time for exams (because of issues) is frankly astonishing. I doubt their employers will be keen to allow them extra time for their work. Something needs to be done. I have no idea what.
It looks like the requirement for photo ID didn't save the Tory bacon.
I hope there is a proper analysis of who was turned away or otherwise prevented.
Time to limit it to over sixty five bus pass?
Elvis bus pass?
The strange thing is neither my wife or I have been on a bus in decades, maybe back to when we lived in Edinburgh in the early 1960s and certainly we have not used a bus pass
I should clarify we have been on coach tour buses but that is different
I got a bus pass for ID purposes and used it for the election. I never expected to use it on a bus, but bizarrely I have now twice. Firstly after rescuing my wife when she broke her wrist I had then make a further trip to pick up our car. A combination of trains and a bus. Then within a week of that I had an appointment to fix my trigger finger which meant I couldn't drive home after the op. I was relying on my wife, which obviously became impossible. Bus pass to the rescue again.
Andy Street is a decent guy. That's how you give a losing speech.
He should join Labour.
This place tonight is rather nasty. It’s perfectly possible to be a conservative and be a decent guy. Being conservative is a view of how the world works, and how you think the country should be run. Being labour has different views on that. Their is an astonishingly nasty streak of some posters on here tonight (not talking about you, horse). The bile is coming from the left. It’s time for Labour to have their go at running the country. But to here some, a party that was in tatters a few short years ago are set for a decade of power, all before a single vote in the GE has been cast. Hubris, I name thee Heathener.
Sorry dude, but this "I'm very sad because bile is directed at the tories" line feels very pathetic. The Tories have made a bloody mess over the last five years in the most arrogant, inconsiderate way possible. The reason Street gets so much kudos is he isn't that person. He's what the tory party could be if they weren't full of people who are corrupt, incompetent, stupid or borderline evil. That's why they cop the sharp edge of the tongue. Just like Labour did under Corbyn. The lesson is simple: be better.
I’m not trying to defend the Tories, far from it. It’s just the tone from some posters is rather nasty.
It’s easy and in my view rather lazy the blame the incumbent government during a once in a century pandemic and a major European war with resulting surgedvinflation for all the ills of the country. Starmer and Labour will not find many easy answers out there. I wish that there were.
I'm sorry, what?
Are you saying we shouldn't blame the Tories for partying through lockdown - illegally - against their own advice?
I think everyone agrees they handled the vaccine rollout well and the pandemic itself the UK was middling but not terrible.
But what has anything since then got to do with it?
Boris Johnson chose to lie - nothing to do with COVID The Tories chose to defend Johnson's lies - nothing to do with COVID They chose to elect Liz Truss - nothing to do with COVID Rishi Sunak chose to cancel HS2 - nothing to do with COVID Rishi Sunak chose to pursue an electoral strategy based on one London seat - nothing to do with COVID
I think the Tories have been dealt a bad hand - and played it incredibly badly. You can't honestly say at this point Labour would have done any of those things with a straight face.
Covid was a huge hit financially, hit schooling with the potential effects lasting a decade, hit healthcare hugely. If you can see the effects of covid, then you need to look a bit harder.
Are you saying any of that impacts any of what the Tories have done?
How does public finances impact Johnson's lying or not lying?
Johnson was an arse and I’m glad he’s gone and is not coming back. But the public finance constrain what governments can do. How many schools you can rebuild, how many doctors you can pay etc. This version of the Tories are getting most things wrong. I think cancelling HS2 was wrong, Inthink Rwanda is wrong. I’ll be voting for labour at the GE. But I think it’s right to appreciate the challenges thrown at the government since 2019.
I get you, material circumstances matter. That's why I'm Labour and not a Green. But, you can be handed a relatively bad hand and play it as well as you can. Or you can vomit over the cards and pass out at the table. Everyone had to deal with the fallout from Covid. Some have done badly, some well. Not that many elected a crazy person who almost crashed the pensions market and spiked mortgage rates through the roof through four weeks of adderall spiked lunacy.
Johnson was an arse and I’m glad he’s gone and is not coming back. But the public finance constrain what governments can do. How many schools you can rebuild, how many doctors you can pay etc. This version of the Tories are getting most things wrong. I think cancelling HS2 was wrong, Inthink Rwanda is wrong. I’ll be voting for labour at the GE. But I think it’s right to appreciate the challenges thrown at the government since 2019.
But you didn't respond to any of the points I made, that have nothing to do with the finances.
You're reminding me of myself when Corbyn was about to lose.
Can you point to a single thing the Tories have actually done since 2010? A single positive change they've actually made?
I'll name one: gay marriage.
Apart from that, can you really agree that they've really done anything?
Johnson was an arse and I’m glad he’s gone and is not coming back. But the public finance constrain what governments can do. How many schools you can rebuild, how many doctors you can pay etc. This version of the Tories are getting most things wrong. I think cancelling HS2 was wrong, Inthink Rwanda is wrong. I’ll be voting for labour at the GE. But I think it’s right to appreciate the challenges thrown at the government since 2019.
But you didn't respond to any of the points I made, that have nothing to do with the finances.
You're reminding me of myself when Corbyn was about to lose.
Can you point to a single thing the Tories have actually done since 2010? A single positive change they've actually made?
I'll name one: gay marriage.
Apart from that, can you really agree that they've really done anything?
The OBR.
Halving unemployment, I guess. But that’s no longer considered a big issue.
Johnson was an arse and I’m glad he’s gone and is not coming back. But the public finance constrain what governments can do. How many schools you can rebuild, how many doctors you can pay etc. This version of the Tories are getting most things wrong. I think cancelling HS2 was wrong, Inthink Rwanda is wrong. I’ll be voting for labour at the GE. But I think it’s right to appreciate the challenges thrown at the government since 2019.
But you didn't respond to any of the points I made, that have nothing to do with the finances.
You're reminding me of myself when Corbyn was about to lose.
Can you point to a single thing the Tories have actually done since 2010? A single positive change they've actually made?
I'll name one: gay marriage.
Apart from that, can you really agree that they've really done anything?
Ukraine. Covid vaccines. Inherited a huge deficit in 2010 and in coalition with the Lib Dems choose a policy called austerity (that really wasn’t) that was gradually working until Covid. It may not have been the right policy - a nations finances are not like personal finances after all. But I don’t think it was that badly done. Others will disagree.
I’m not here to bat for the government. I want the election asap, and Inwant Starmer to have his go, but I also think PB is a better place without the nastiness we are getting from some posters.
Will be interesting to see the stats on people turned away from voting due to no ID in due course too.
Street probably would have. Other Conservative winning candidates, mostly in PCC races which don't even matter, probably would have lost under SV.
It will be very interesting if Labour bother to change the system again - the Tories have shown you can just do it without an explicit manifeso committment (they only said they would support FPTP, and were not specific about introducing it where it was not already used), which they might have it as anyway - and whether they will make an attempt to make wider electoral changes.
ID changes seems possible, but beyond that? If they win big, then like Justin Trudeau they may have an epiphany that it is too complicated to bother with after all, if they even have a unified position on it in the first place.
The fact Andy Street lost the West Midlands, a key swing region, by just over 1000 votes really is not the basis for a leadership challenge.
Far more significant is the fact that on NEV from the local elections Labour is not even heading for a clear majority let alone a landslide so there is plenty of opportunity for Rishi to squeeze the gap, especially by winning over voters who voted LD or Independent on Thursday.
The fact Reform failed to beat the Tories in Blackpool South also shows Rishi has the chance to squeeze their vote as well.
Hall, despite losing, also got a higher voteshare in London than Boris in 2019 and Houchen won Tees Valley, so it could certainly have been an even worse series of results for the Tories and PM than it was
They should send you out on the media round instead of your chairman.
I met our chairman a few weeks ago at a campaign event so I wouldn't dream of taking his job. Happy to provide him with some effective lines though!
Andy Street is a decent guy. That's how you give a losing speech.
He should join Labour.
This place tonight is rather nasty. It’s perfectly possible to be a conservative and be a decent guy. Being conservative is a view of how the world works, and how you think the country should be run. Being labour has different views on that. Their is an astonishingly nasty streak of some posters on here tonight (not talking about you, horse). The bile is coming from the left. It’s time for Labour to have their go at running the country. But to here some, a party that was in tatters a few short years ago are set for a decade of power, all before a single vote in the GE has been cast. Hubris, I name thee Heathener.
Sorry dude, but this "I'm very sad because bile is directed at the tories" line feels very pathetic. The Tories have made a bloody mess over the last five years in the most arrogant, inconsiderate way possible. The reason Street gets so much kudos is he isn't that person. He's what the tory party could be if they weren't full of people who are corrupt, incompetent, stupid or borderline evil. That's why they cop the sharp edge of the tongue. Just like Labour did under Corbyn. The lesson is simple: be better.
I have a lot of respect for conservatives. I even liked Sunak and said so on here openly and repeatedly.
The problem is this: the Conservative Party are not conservatives. What is conservative about record high taxes? Fucking business and our place in the world? Performative cruelty? Gross incompetence and corruption costing the public purse billions?
Turbo defends the conservative way of how the world works - so he must be even more disgusted and appalled and repulsed by the party than those of us who lean the other way.
Conservatives talk a lot about moral issues. Basic right and wrong. This party is wrong. Deeply, dangerously wrong.
True that. These people aren't Tories. They've forgotten where the centre is and drifted further and further rightward. This isn't the USA, their core vote still believes in basic decency, fairness, the NHS, the poorest in society having enough to eat. They also don't want their mortgages to double because you voted in a total fucking loon as PM accidentally.
Its crap politics and a basic failure to comprehend society. Most Brits are not amoral rat fucks. They believe in "basic decency" as you rightly pick out.
This government - this party - is wholly indecent in its current form. That is not saying anything about Starmer, or Labour, or even decent conservatives. Its purely that some things are basically wrong. And this government is wrong. Even as a conservative, how does passing a law declaring that rule of law and the directions of the courts can be overturned on a whim count as decent?
Lets assume the Tories move for Sunak. Lets further assume that having sent the likes of Richard Holden and Andrew Mitchell into bat that Sunak ends up in the Yousless position.
Shall we line up the runners and riders for the Tory salvation gig? Priti Patel - mad Suella Braverman - mad Penny Mordaunt - ineffective Rehman Chisti - its Chisti time Boris Johnson - because hopium Liz Truss
Anyone else?
This is why they wont in the end move.
It is all piss and wind or whatever the expression de jour is.
Only Johnson makes sense as a 'what the fuck, nothing to lose here and he might just pull something off' candidate.
I sort of disagree. I think Mordaunt could give them a bump in polls if she held an election quickly after becoming leader, before being found out.
At most she might get a brief bounce but she would soon be found out as over promoted as PM, she is mid rank Cabinet material level at most, not even great Office of State level yet alone PM.
Mordaunt is perfectly decent and hardworking but is much less intelligent than Rishi and doesn't have the statute or presence needed for the top job
Rishi worked very hard and was very studious, and nobody can take his academic achievements away from him. But he doesn't strike me as at all intelligent. He's not curious about anything. His views on things outside his immediate field of experience are sloppy inane cliches. His speeches are witless scripted lines - he isn't able to tailor his message or think on his feet. I can't imagine a long in-depth interview with Sunak - I couldn't watch such a thing, I'd be cringeing. If he is so much more intelligent than Mordaunt, where has his intelligence got his party? Where is his intelligence getting us a country?
Mordaunt speaks well in the Commons and interviews pretty well. It's interesting that you've called her hardworking - I got the sense she was pretty lazy. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. She's a roll of the dice. If she has the good sense to form a strong Government, I think she could front it quite well.
Johnson was an arse and I’m glad he’s gone and is not coming back. But the public finance constrain what governments can do. How many schools you can rebuild, how many doctors you can pay etc. This version of the Tories are getting most things wrong. I think cancelling HS2 was wrong, Inthink Rwanda is wrong. I’ll be voting for labour at the GE. But I think it’s right to appreciate the challenges thrown at the government since 2019.
But you didn't respond to any of the points I made, that have nothing to do with the finances.
You're reminding me of myself when Corbyn was about to lose.
Can you point to a single thing the Tories have actually done since 2010? A single positive change they've actually made?
I'll name one: gay marriage.
Apart from that, can you really agree that they've really done anything?
Ukraine. Covid vaccines. Inherited a huge deficit in 2010 and in coalition with the Lib Dems choose a policy called austerity (that really wasn’t) that was gradually working until Covid. It may not have been the right policy - a nations finances are not like personal finances after all. But I don’t think it was that badly done. Others will disagree.
I’m not here to bat for the government. I want the election asap, and Inwant Starmer to have his go, but I also think PB is a better place without the nastiness we are getting from some posters.
How big is the deficit today?
How was austerity "working"? It literally failed on its own terms.
Johnson was an arse and I’m glad he’s gone and is not coming back. But the public finance constrain what governments can do. How many schools you can rebuild, how many doctors you can pay etc. This version of the Tories are getting most things wrong. I think cancelling HS2 was wrong, Inthink Rwanda is wrong. I’ll be voting for labour at the GE. But I think it’s right to appreciate the challenges thrown at the government since 2019.
But you didn't respond to any of the points I made, that have nothing to do with the finances.
You're reminding me of myself when Corbyn was about to lose.
Can you point to a single thing the Tories have actually done since 2010? A single positive change they've actually made?
I'll name one: gay marriage.
Apart from that, can you really agree that they've really done anything?
Ukraine. Covid vaccines. Inherited a huge deficit in 2010 and in coalition with the Lib Dems choose a policy called austerity (that really wasn’t) that was gradually working until Covid. It may not have been the right policy - a nations finances are not like personal finances after all. But I don’t think it was that badly done. Others will disagree.
I’m not here to bat for the government. I want the election asap, and Inwant Starmer to have his go, but I also think PB is a better place without the nastiness we are getting from some posters.
I don't like nastiness either, but I am also reminded of some comments complaining about Tories being triumphant on 13 December 2019 - I think on the day of big elections wins supporters of the winning side are reasonably going to crow about it, and opponents and the neutral can probably forgive a bit of snideness and line walking commentary.
If Sunak hadn't cancelled HS2 Brum to Manchester, Street would be mayor again tonight.
Maybe. But to what extent did Gaza and the independent vote also depress Labour's vote?
I think Street probably did as well as he could. Because it was so narrow everyone will now have their pet theory why he lost, which the tiny margin will lend credence toward.
Lets assume the Tories move for Sunak. Lets further assume that having sent the likes of Richard Holden and Andrew Mitchell into bat that Sunak ends up in the Yousless position.
Shall we line up the runners and riders for the Tory salvation gig? Priti Patel - mad Suella Braverman - mad Penny Mordaunt - ineffective Rehman Chisti - its Chisti time Boris Johnson - because hopium Liz Truss
Anyone else?
This is why they wont in the end move.
It is all piss and wind or whatever the expression de jour is.
Only Johnson makes sense as a 'what the fuck, nothing to lose here and he might just pull something off' candidate.
I sort of disagree. I think Mordaunt could give them a bump in polls if she held an election quickly after becoming leader, before being found out.
At most she might get a brief bounce but she would soon be found out as over promoted as PM, she is mid rank Cabinet material level at most, not even great Office of State level yet alone PM.
Mordaunt is perfectly decent and hardworking but is much less intelligent than Rishi and doesn't have the statute or presence needed for the top job. Rishi will lead the Tories into the next GE, there is no viable alternative in Parliament now and if he loses and takes the blame for defeat then the Conservatives have the time to decide what direction they want the party to go into in Opposition
Johnson was an arse and I’m glad he’s gone and is not coming back. But the public finance constrain what governments can do. How many schools you can rebuild, how many doctors you can pay etc. This version of the Tories are getting most things wrong. I think cancelling HS2 was wrong, Inthink Rwanda is wrong. I’ll be voting for labour at the GE. But I think it’s right to appreciate the challenges thrown at the government since 2019.
But you didn't respond to any of the points I made, that have nothing to do with the finances.
You're reminding me of myself when Corbyn was about to lose.
Can you point to a single thing the Tories have actually done since 2010? A single positive change they've actually made?
I'll name one: gay marriage.
Apart from that, can you really agree that they've really done anything?
Ukraine. Covid vaccines. Inherited a huge deficit in 2010 and in coalition with the Lib Dems choose a policy called austerity (that really wasn’t) that was gradually working until Covid. It may not have been the right policy - a nations finances are not like personal finances after all. But I don’t think it was that badly done. Others will disagree.
I’m not here to bat for the government. I want the election asap, and Inwant Starmer to have his go, but I also think PB is a better place without the nastiness we are getting from some posters.
I don't like nastiness either, but I am also reminded of some comments complaining about Tories being triumphant on 13 December 2019 - I think on the day of big elections wins supporters of the winning side are reasonably going to crow about it, and opponents and the neutral can probably forgive a bit of snideness and line walking commentary.
I'd actually like to hear from the Tories on what they are going to do to get out of this hole - but so far nothing is coming across.
Johnson was an arse and I’m glad he’s gone and is not coming back. But the public finance constrain what governments can do. How many schools you can rebuild, how many doctors you can pay etc. This version of the Tories are getting most things wrong. I think cancelling HS2 was wrong, Inthink Rwanda is wrong. I’ll be voting for labour at the GE. But I think it’s right to appreciate the challenges thrown at the government since 2019.
But you didn't respond to any of the points I made, that have nothing to do with the finances.
You're reminding me of myself when Corbyn was about to lose.
Can you point to a single thing the Tories have actually done since 2010? A single positive change they've actually made?
I'll name one: gay marriage.
Apart from that, can you really agree that they've really done anything?
Ukraine. Covid vaccines. Inherited a huge deficit in 2010 and in coalition with the Lib Dems choose a policy called austerity (that really wasn’t) that was gradually working until Covid. It may not have been the right policy - a nations finances are not like personal finances after all. But I don’t think it was that badly done. Others will disagree.
I’m not here to bat for the government. I want the election asap, and Inwant Starmer to have his go, but I also think PB is a better place without the nastiness we are getting from some posters.
How big is the deficit today?
How was austerity "working"?
The Coalition seemed like it had things under control without things collapsing, I think it was working at that time. Things have been so chaotic since 2016 it's been an entirely different era.
The fact Andy Street lost the West Midlands, a key swing region, by just over 1000 votes really is not the basis for a leadership challenge.
Far more significant is the fact that on NEV from the local elections Labour is not even heading for a clear majority let alone a landslide so there is plenty of opportunity for Rishi to squeeze the gap, especially by winning over voters who voted LD or Independent on Thursday.
The fact Reform failed to beat the Tories in Blackpool South also shows Rishi has the chance to squeeze their vote as well.
Hall, despite losing, also got a higher voteshare in London than Boris in 2019 and Houchen won Tees Valley, so it could certainly have been an even worse series of results for the Tories and PM than it was
@HYUFD, I think the NEV assumed no change in Wales and Scotland, which is a big omission. If you think Labour are going to get the same number of Scottish seats in 2024/5 as they did in 2019, you need to say so.
Johnson was an arse and I’m glad he’s gone and is not coming back. But the public finance constrain what governments can do. How many schools you can rebuild, how many doctors you can pay etc. This version of the Tories are getting most things wrong. I think cancelling HS2 was wrong, Inthink Rwanda is wrong. I’ll be voting for labour at the GE. But I think it’s right to appreciate the challenges thrown at the government since 2019.
But you didn't respond to any of the points I made, that have nothing to do with the finances.
You're reminding me of myself when Corbyn was about to lose.
Can you point to a single thing the Tories have actually done since 2010? A single positive change they've actually made?
I'll name one: gay marriage.
Apart from that, can you really agree that they've really done anything?
Gay marriage was the Liberal Democrats. Cameron was happy to adopt it as part of his modernisation battle against the mob now in charge, but he would not have proposed it himself.
Johnson was an arse and I’m glad he’s gone and is not coming back. But the public finance constrain what governments can do. How many schools you can rebuild, how many doctors you can pay etc. This version of the Tories are getting most things wrong. I think cancelling HS2 was wrong, Inthink Rwanda is wrong. I’ll be voting for labour at the GE. But I think it’s right to appreciate the challenges thrown at the government since 2019.
But you didn't respond to any of the points I made, that have nothing to do with the finances.
You're reminding me of myself when Corbyn was about to lose.
Can you point to a single thing the Tories have actually done since 2010? A single positive change they've actually made?
I'll name one: gay marriage.
Apart from that, can you really agree that they've really done anything?
Ukraine. Covid vaccines. Inherited a huge deficit in 2010 and in coalition with the Lib Dems choose a policy called austerity (that really wasn’t) that was gradually working until Covid. It may not have been the right policy - a nations finances are not like personal finances after all. But I don’t think it was that badly done. Others will disagree.
I’m not here to bat for the government. I want the election asap, and Inwant Starmer to have his go, but I also think PB is a better place without the nastiness we are getting from some posters.
How big is the deficit today?
How was austerity "working"? It literally failed on its own terms.
It was on track to eliminate the deficit up till covid. The government borrowed billions so that people could be furloughed, and so the economy didn’t die.
Johnson was an arse and I’m glad he’s gone and is not coming back. But the public finance constrain what governments can do. How many schools you can rebuild, how many doctors you can pay etc. This version of the Tories are getting most things wrong. I think cancelling HS2 was wrong, Inthink Rwanda is wrong. I’ll be voting for labour at the GE. But I think it’s right to appreciate the challenges thrown at the government since 2019.
But you didn't respond to any of the points I made, that have nothing to do with the finances.
You're reminding me of myself when Corbyn was about to lose.
Can you point to a single thing the Tories have actually done since 2010? A single positive change they've actually made?
I'll name one: gay marriage.
Apart from that, can you really agree that they've really done anything?
Ukraine. Covid vaccines. Inherited a huge deficit in 2010 and in coalition with the Lib Dems choose a policy called austerity (that really wasn’t) that was gradually working until Covid. It may not have been the right policy - a nations finances are not like personal finances after all. But I don’t think it was that badly done. Others will disagree.
I’m not here to bat for the government. I want the election asap, and Inwant Starmer to have his go, but I also think PB is a better place without the nastiness we are getting from some posters.
How big is the deficit today?
How was austerity "working"?
The Coalition seemed like it had things under control without things collapsing, I think it was working at that time. Things have been so chaotic since 2016 it's been an entirely different era.
The Coalition was a competent government certainly. But their policies didn't really achieve much.
I would argue very strongly austerity has put us in the hole we are in today.
If Sunak hadn't cancelled HS2 Brum to Manchester, Street would be mayor again tonight.
Rishi Sunak has completely and utterly pissed on him. I feel bad for him as by all accounts he was one of the few sane Tories left.
Maybe there's still an open parliamentary seat he could have a run at, but I doubt any competitive ones are left unless someone in a safe seat decides to pull out now.
Street did bloody well to run it as close as he did. And, it was wafer thin.
1,500 votes in a 3 million electorate is nothing and it could very easily have gone the other way.
I agree. I think CCHQ made a massive error in suggesting (and they did brief this) that his victory was in the bag. Not only did it breed complacency it also makes it look like a Labour upset when really everything pointed to it being close.
Johnson was an arse and I’m glad he’s gone and is not coming back. But the public finance constrain what governments can do. How many schools you can rebuild, how many doctors you can pay etc. This version of the Tories are getting most things wrong. I think cancelling HS2 was wrong, Inthink Rwanda is wrong. I’ll be voting for labour at the GE. But I think it’s right to appreciate the challenges thrown at the government since 2019.
But you didn't respond to any of the points I made, that have nothing to do with the finances.
You're reminding me of myself when Corbyn was about to lose.
Can you point to a single thing the Tories have actually done since 2010? A single positive change they've actually made?
I'll name one: gay marriage.
Apart from that, can you really agree that they've really done anything?
Ukraine. Covid vaccines. Inherited a huge deficit in 2010 and in coalition with the Lib Dems choose a policy called austerity (that really wasn’t) that was gradually working until Covid. It may not have been the right policy - a nations finances are not like personal finances after all. But I don’t think it was that badly done. Others will disagree.
I’m not here to bat for the government. I want the election asap, and Inwant Starmer to have his go, but I also think PB is a better place without the nastiness we are getting from some posters.
How big is the deficit today?
How was austerity "working"? It literally failed on its own terms.
It was on track to eliminate the deficit up till covid. The government borrowed billions so that people could be furloughed, and so the economy didn’t die.
Eliminate the deficit at what cost? It literally broke the fabric of society.
The backlog for asylum cases is literally so long because they sacked all of the case workers. "Austerity", working?
Ukraine. Covid vaccines. Inherited a huge deficit in 2010 and in coalition with the Lib Dems choose a policy called austerity (that really wasn’t) that was gradually working until Covid. It may not have been the right policy - a nations finances are not like personal finances after all. But I don’t think it was that badly done. Others will disagree.
UK's national debt in 2009/10 was £1.08t. In 2018/19, the last full year before Covid it was £1.82t. Austerity was working at being the excuse for the Tories to starve public services but let's not pretend it was dealing with the deficit.
If Sunak hadn't cancelled HS2 Brum to Manchester, Street would be mayor again tonight.
Maybe. But to what extent did Gaza and the independent vote also depress Labour's vote?
I think Street probably did as well as he could. Because it was so narrow everyone will now have their pet theory why he lost, which the tiny margin will lend credence toward.
Gaza-Islamic interest vote at 12%, Labour lose by 1500 votes: endless blame game about Starmer / Zionists / Muslims / whoever. Gaza-Islamic interest vote at 12%, Labour win by 1500 votes: forgotten. Funny game.
Johnson was an arse and I’m glad he’s gone and is not coming back. But the public finance constrain what governments can do. How many schools you can rebuild, how many doctors you can pay etc. This version of the Tories are getting most things wrong. I think cancelling HS2 was wrong, Inthink Rwanda is wrong. I’ll be voting for labour at the GE. But I think it’s right to appreciate the challenges thrown at the government since 2019.
But you didn't respond to any of the points I made, that have nothing to do with the finances.
You're reminding me of myself when Corbyn was about to lose.
Can you point to a single thing the Tories have actually done since 2010? A single positive change they've actually made?
I'll name one: gay marriage.
Apart from that, can you really agree that they've really done anything?
Ukraine. Covid vaccines. Inherited a huge deficit in 2010 and in coalition with the Lib Dems choose a policy called austerity (that really wasn’t) that was gradually working until Covid. It may not have been the right policy - a nations finances are not like personal finances after all. But I don’t think it was that badly done. Others will disagree.
I’m not here to bat for the government. I want the election asap, and Inwant Starmer to have his go, but I also think PB is a better place without the nastiness we are getting from some posters.
How big is the deficit today?
How was austerity "working"?
The Coalition seemed like it had things under control without things collapsing, I think it was working at that time. Things have been so chaotic since 2016 it's been an entirely different era.
The Coalition was a competent government certainly. But their policies didn't really achieve much.
I would argue very strongly austerity has put us in the hole we are in today.
I would say it was setting a good base to build from, and we have made many poor decisions since.
Interestingly Ed Miliband implicitly agreed with the financial policies by criticising the Coalition for not meeting its deficit elimination goal.
The problem is going to be Sir Ed's inadequate response to the Post Office stuff on his watch. He may be able to laugh about it, hur hur, but all those suicide guys not so much.
Johnson was an arse and I’m glad he’s gone and is not coming back. But the public finance constrain what governments can do. How many schools you can rebuild, how many doctors you can pay etc. This version of the Tories are getting most things wrong. I think cancelling HS2 was wrong, Inthink Rwanda is wrong. I’ll be voting for labour at the GE. But I think it’s right to appreciate the challenges thrown at the government since 2019.
But you didn't respond to any of the points I made, that have nothing to do with the finances.
You're reminding me of myself when Corbyn was about to lose.
Can you point to a single thing the Tories have actually done since 2010? A single positive change they've actually made?
I'll name one: gay marriage.
Apart from that, can you really agree that they've really done anything?
Ukraine. Covid vaccines. Inherited a huge deficit in 2010 and in coalition with the Lib Dems choose a policy called austerity (that really wasn’t) that was gradually working until Covid. It may not have been the right policy - a nations finances are not like personal finances after all. But I don’t think it was that badly done. Others will disagree.
I’m not here to bat for the government. I want the election asap, and Inwant Starmer to have his go, but I also think PB is a better place without the nastiness we are getting from some posters.
I don't like nastiness either, but I am also reminded of some comments complaining about Tories being triumphant on 13 December 2019 - I think on the day of big elections wins supporters of the winning side are reasonably going to crow about it, and opponents and the neutral can probably forgive a bit of snideness and line walking commentary.
I think it’s the contrast in praising Street for being a good loser at the same time as being nasty victors that jars.
The fact Andy Street lost the West Midlands, a key swing region, by just over 1000 votes really is not the basis for a leadership challenge.
Far more significant is the fact that on NEV from the local elections Labour is not even heading for a clear majority let alone a landslide so there is plenty of opportunity for Rishi to squeeze the gap, especially by winning over voters who voted LD or Independent on Thursday.
The fact Reform failed to beat the Tories in Blackpool South also shows Rishi has the chance to squeeze their vote as well.
Hall, despite losing, also got a higher voteshare in London than Boris in 2019 and Houchen won Tees Valley, so it could certainly have been an even worse series of results for the Tories and PM than it was
They should send you out on the media round instead of your chairman.
I met our chairman a few weeks ago at a campaign event so I wouldn't dream of taking his job. Happy to provide him with some effective lines though!
Good - he needs some! Embarrassing doesn't cover it, does it?
Lets assume the Tories move for Sunak. Lets further assume that having sent the likes of Richard Holden and Andrew Mitchell into bat that Sunak ends up in the Yousless position.
Shall we line up the runners and riders for the Tory salvation gig? Priti Patel - mad Suella Braverman - mad Penny Mordaunt - ineffective Rehman Chisti - its Chisti time Boris Johnson - because hopium Liz Truss
Anyone else?
This is why they wont in the end move.
It is all piss and wind or whatever the expression de jour is.
Only Johnson makes sense as a 'what the fuck, nothing to lose here and he might just pull something off' candidate.
I sort of disagree. I think Mordaunt could give them a bump in polls if she held an election quickly after becoming leader, before being found out.
At most she might get a brief bounce but she would soon be found out as over promoted as PM, she is mid rank Cabinet material level at most, not even great Office of State level yet alone PM.
Mordaunt is perfectly decent and hardworking but is much less intelligent than Rishi and doesn't have the statute or presence needed for the top job. Rishi will lead the Tories into the next GE, there is no viable alternative in Parliament now and if he loses and takes the blame for defeat then the Conservatives have the time to decide what direction they want the party to go into in Opposition
Rishi clearly isn’t that intelligent
I disagree - he is on his subjects but he is terrible as a politician
Ukraine. Covid vaccines. Inherited a huge deficit in 2010 and in coalition with the Lib Dems choose a policy called austerity (that really wasn’t) that was gradually working until Covid. It may not have been the right policy - a nations finances are not like personal finances after all. But I don’t think it was that badly done. Others will disagree.
UK's national debt in 2009/10 was £1.08t. In 2018/19, the last full year before Covid it was £1.82t. Austerity was working at being the excuse for the Tories to starve public services but let's not pretend it was dealing with the deficit.
I think there was an argument to cut public spending but the Tories not only didn't actually cut spending, they raised it whilst also destroying society and things we actually need to work.
All of the biggest issues can be traced back to those cuts.
If Sunak hadn't cancelled HS2 Brum to Manchester, Street would be mayor again tonight.
Rishi Sunak has completely and utterly pissed on him. I feel bad for him as by all accounts he was one of the few sane Tories left.
Maybe there's still an open parliamentary seat he could have a run at, but I doubt any competitive ones are left unless someone in a safe seat decides to pull out now.
Perhaps his other half might take the Hundreds for Hubby?
I have absolutely no doubt in mind whatsoever that if Labour had run the economy from 2010 onwards we'd not have any of the societal problems we have today.
If Sunak hadn't cancelled HS2 Brum to Manchester, Street would be mayor again tonight.
Rishi Sunak has completely and utterly pissed on him. I feel bad for him as by all accounts he was one of the few sane Tories left.
Maybe there's still an open parliamentary seat he could have a run at, but I doubt any competitive ones are left unless someone in a safe seat decides to pull out now.
Perhaps his other half might take the Hundreds for Hubby?
Johnson was an arse and I’m glad he’s gone and is not coming back. But the public finance constrain what governments can do. How many schools you can rebuild, how many doctors you can pay etc. This version of the Tories are getting most things wrong. I think cancelling HS2 was wrong, Inthink Rwanda is wrong. I’ll be voting for labour at the GE. But I think it’s right to appreciate the challenges thrown at the government since 2019.
But you didn't respond to any of the points I made, that have nothing to do with the finances.
You're reminding me of myself when Corbyn was about to lose.
Can you point to a single thing the Tories have actually done since 2010? A single positive change they've actually made?
I'll name one: gay marriage.
Apart from that, can you really agree that they've really done anything?
The OBR.
Halving unemployment, I guess. But that’s no longer considered a big issue.
I think the Tories have done well on education reform (in England), pensions freedoms, welfare reform, reducing unemployment, deficit reduction and delivering Brexit. I also think they've begun to check the culture wars in the last few years.
Street did bloody well to run it as close as he did. And, it was wafer thin.
1,500 votes in a 3 million electorate is nothing and it could very easily have gone the other way.
I agree. I think CCHQ made a massive error in suggesting (and they did brief this) that his victory was in the bag. Not only did it breed complacency it also makes it look like a Labour upset when really everything pointed to it being close.
Tories are absolute tools at expectation management. Allowing a small swing, exciting, close race where the incumbent vastly outperformed national polling in a losing cause as monumental and a shock and some sort of totemic victory for Labour is utterly amateur. Tories ars in the doldrums, labour went backwards in the West Mids from 2021 but the Tories being utterly awful disguises that fact
Comments
Far more significant is the fact that on NEV from the local elections Labour is not even heading for a clear majority let alone a landslide so there is plenty of opportunity for Rishi to squeeze the gap, especially by winning over voters who voted LD or Independent on Thursday.
The fact Reform failed to beat the Tories in Blackpool South also shows Rishi has the chance to squeeze their vote as well.
Hall, despite losing, also got a higher voteshare in London than Boris in 2019 and Houchen won Tees Valley, so it could certainly have been an even worse series of results for the Tories and PM than it was
More leaked WhatsApps - CCHQ hits back, Sky’s interview with Andy Street and some bloke called “Coates” features
You know five minutes ago when I said Andy Street should join Labour. I was right, they don't even want him.
The problem is this: the Conservative Party are not conservatives. What is conservative about record high taxes? Fucking business and our place in the world? Performative cruelty? Gross incompetence and corruption costing the public purse billions?
Turbo defends the conservative way of how the world works - so he must be even more disgusted and appalled and repulsed by the party than those of us who lean the other way.
Conservatives talk a lot about moral issues. Basic right and wrong. This party is wrong. Deeply, dangerously wrong.
How does public finances impact Johnson's lying or not lying?
In 2024 Labour have a leader who is not disliked even if he is not loved, ample evidence of electoral momentum to point to Labour's credibility to take up office again, the even more significant weight of now 14 years of Tory government to oppose including severe economic impacts which, even if not the government's fault, will make people poorly disposed to them. Conversely, the Tories have destroyed their credibility through leadership switches, and none of them have been very good, the government has no major successes to its name, it is losing voters from right to Reform, and centre to Labour and LDs, and it is still deeply, deeply divided with even many Tories happy to see them lose, either because it is time for a change, for revenge for ousting Boris, or because of dissatisfaction with its conservative output.
Boris Johnson would appear extraordinarily well-qualified for this particular peerage.
Truman was one of the greatest US Presidents - and despised when he left office. It’s only subsequently that his reputation has risen.
I should clarify we have been on coach tour buses but that is different
Mordaunt is perfectly decent and hardworking but is much less intelligent than Rishi and doesn't have the statute or presence needed for the top job. Rishi will lead the Tories into the next GE, there is no viable alternative in Parliament now and if he loses and takes the blame for defeat then the Conservatives have the time to decide what direction they want the party to go into in Opposition
Freeze special needs funding at 2010 levels (in actual not real terms), and pretend to cut taxes whilst raising them.
Maybe that's necessary to keep a certain high level perspective on things, but sometimes they just miss obvious details and seem more like standard pundits whose job is to be perennially surprised by events for the public to make it seem exciting, the TV equivalent of those irritating twitch streamers who overreact to horror games.
You're reminding me of myself when Corbyn was about to lose.
Can you point to a single thing the Tories have actually done since 2010? A single positive change they've actually made?
I'll name one: gay marriage.
Apart from that, can you really agree that they've really done anything?
There is nothing wrong in a view from an important active member of the conservative party even if it is rather partisan
On the list (which would be the ideal system for them), they won 5.5%, compared to 26.5% Conservative.
What an absolute racist tool Laurence Fox is.
I interact mostly with undergrads in teaching terms. There is no doubt many of them suffered with covid restrictions. That said, it’s undeniable that they have become far more flaky too. I don’t know why, but the resilience has gone. Perhaps it just abuse of the system but the numbe4 of students on our course who claim extra time for exams (because of issues) is frankly astonishing. I doubt their employers will be keen to allow them extra time for their work.
Something needs to be done. I have no idea what.
https://x.com/timfarron/status/1786848699676581911?s=46
Will be interesting to see the stats on people turned away from voting due to no ID in due course too.
1,500 votes in a 3 million electorate is nothing and it could very easily have gone the other way.
That's not unique to him of course, he's just done it the most today.
That depends on what their goal is.Their goal is to kick the Tories in the shins, but even there, they are not very successful.
https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1786834114840068163
I’m not here to bat for the government. I want the election asap, and Inwant Starmer to have his go, but I also think PB is a better place without the nastiness we are getting from some posters.
It will be very interesting if Labour bother to change the system again - the Tories have shown you can just do it without an explicit manifeso committment (they only said they would support FPTP, and were not specific about introducing it where it was not already used), which they might have it as anyway - and whether they will make an attempt to make wider electoral changes.
ID changes seems possible, but beyond that? If they win big, then like Justin Trudeau they may have an epiphany that it is too complicated to bother with after all, if they even have a unified position on it in the first place.
This government - this party - is wholly indecent in its current form. That is not saying anything about Starmer, or Labour, or even decent conservatives. Its purely that some things are basically wrong. And this government is wrong. Even as a conservative, how does passing a law declaring that rule of law and the directions of the courts can be overturned on a whim count as decent?
Mordaunt speaks well in the Commons and interviews pretty well. It's interesting that you've called her hardworking - I got the sense she was pretty lazy. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. She's a roll of the dice. If she has the good sense to form a strong Government, I think she could front it quite well.
How was austerity "working"? It literally failed on its own terms.
I think Street probably did as well as he could. Because it was so narrow everyone will now have their pet theory why he lost, which the tiny margin will lend credence toward.
So, what do the Tories need to do?
I would argue very strongly austerity has put us in the hole we are in today.
The backlog for asylum cases is literally so long because they sacked all of the case workers. "Austerity", working?
Gaza-Islamic interest vote at 12%, Labour win by 1500 votes: forgotten.
Funny game.
It has been my honour to serve citizens in the WM for the last seven years, and I hope I have done it with dignity & integrity.
I am proud of what we have achieved together and I hope my successor can build upon it.
Thank you all.
https://twitter.com/andy4wm/status/1786861060764410287
Thank you Andy. Good luck Sir.
(Susan Hall, that's how you act when you lose.)
Interestingly Ed Miliband implicitly agreed with the financial policies by criticising the Coalition for not meeting its deficit elimination goal.
He would be good in the IMF or similar
All of the biggest issues can be traced back to those cuts.
NHS backlog
Border chaos
Homelessness
Crime
Etc
But, there are plenty of disappointments on top.
Tories ars in the doldrums, labour went backwards in the West Mids from 2021 but the Tories being utterly awful disguises that fact