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Not another December election? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,213
edited April 28 in General
imageNot another December election? – politicalbetting.com

NEW: @BloombergUK Saturday read— Sunak is facing calls from some allies to name the election date to head off a leadership challenge after May 2— Oct/Nov/Dec still the aim. Dec 12 is one date that’s been discussed— but June/July in play as a back-uphttps://t.co/TtF2swGPgm

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    He should compromise on November, I said entirely disinterestly..
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122
    DavidL said:

    He should compromise on November, I said entirely disinterestly..

    November 28th would be a good compromise. 👍
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    He should compromise on November, I said entirely disinterestly..

    November 28th would be a good compromise. 👍
    Or possibly 21st? I honestly can't remember which one i chose.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    He should compromise on November, I said entirely disinterestly..

    November 28th would be a good compromise. 👍
    I am happy for it to be in November

    Leicester promotion favourites once again? 😈
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    It is becoming clear that Sunak is a ditherer, eclipsing even Theresa May. His ‘triangulation’ is driving everyone in Government nuts. Nothing is getting done, everything is being shelved.

    Therefore I think there’s very little chance of a quick summer election now. He will continue procrastinating until the autumn or early winter, unless he is forced out: which would be even more suicidal by the Conservative Party.

    They are in a terrible mess.
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    Why on earth would saying in May that he is setting a date for 12 December head off a leadership challenge?

    No prime minister would do anything like that anyway. The election writs come after the dissolution of Parliament.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Heathener said:

    It is becoming clear that Sunak is a ditherer, eclipsing even Theresa May. His ‘triangulation’ is driving everyone in Government nuts. Nothing is getting done, everything is being shelved.

    Therefore I think there’s very little chance of a quick summer election now. He will continue procrastinating until the autumn or early winter, unless he is forced out: which would be even more suicidal by the Conservative Party.

    They are in a terrible mess.

    He used to be indecisive but he's really not sure anymore.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    Heathener said:

    It is becoming clear that Sunak is a ditherer, eclipsing even Theresa May. His ‘triangulation’ is driving everyone in Government nuts. Nothing is getting done, everything is being shelved.

    Therefore I think there’s very little chance of a quick summer election now. He will continue procrastinating until the autumn or early winter, unless he is forced out: which would be even more suicidal by the Conservative Party.

    They are in a terrible mess.

    Why is he dithering. He wants to stay in power for as long as he is entitled to stay in power.

    Why is that dithering.

    Oh of course because you want an election and likely change of government. So what.
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    FPT

    on Israeli forces in Gaza:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-soldiers-play-with-gaza-womens-underwear-online-posts-2024-03-28/

    https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/4/12/weaponising-underwear-genocide-with-a-semi-pornographic-twist

    Reuters: "Israeli soldiers play with Gaza women's underwear in online posts"

    Al Jazeera: "Weaponising underwear: Genocide with a semi-pornographic twist"

    Will someone tell me the word "scum" is not justified here?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Is it too late for 2 May? 😊
  • Donkeys said:

    A quick note on Islam and babies: Islam teaches that all human beings are born Muslims (in a "state of purity") and that it is the influence on them by parents who follow another religion or who are atheists that makes them into non-Muslims in later life. It is an extreme crime according to Islam to murder any baby.

    FGM isn’t Islamic either. Some Muslims do it, but the vast majority don’t.
    It is barbarism for religious fanatics of all stripes. It was advocated strongly by Dr Kellogg.

    image
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    He should compromise on November, I said entirely disinterestly..

    November 28th would be a good compromise. 👍
    I am happy for it to be in November

    Leicester promotion favourites once again? 😈
    Ipswich have to be most likely, but I think we have the advantage on Leeds.

    It's a bit comedy to everyone but fans.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,466

    Donkeys said:

    A quick note on Islam and babies: Islam teaches that all human beings are born Muslims (in a "state of purity") and that it is the influence on them by parents who follow another religion or who are atheists that makes them into non-Muslims in later life. It is an extreme crime according to Islam to murder any baby.

    FGM isn’t Islamic either. Some Muslims do it, but the vast majority don’t.
    It is barbarism for religious fanatics of all stripes. It was advocated strongly by Dr Kellogg.

    image
    Thanks.

    I will never be able to eat a cornflake again.
  • December or January 2025 are quite likely.

    If he wants to go sooner then October would be better (still long, but before clocks change).

    I can't see any reason besides people's books why it'd be any other month.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    Donkeys said:

    A quick note on Islam and babies: Islam teaches that all human beings are born Muslims (in a "state of purity") and that it is the influence on them by parents who follow another religion or who are atheists that makes them into non-Muslims in later life. It is an extreme crime according to Islam to murder any baby.

    FGM isn’t Islamic either. Some Muslims do it, but the vast majority don’t.
    It is barbarism for religious fanatics of all stripes. It was advocated strongly by Dr Kellogg.

    image
    Kellog was also a big fan of enemas.

    Paging Dr Freud...
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    He should compromise on November, I said entirely disinterestly..

    November 28th would be a good compromise. 👍
    I am happy for it to be in November

    Leicester promotion favourites once again? 😈
    Ipswich have to be most likely, but I think we have the advantage on Leeds.

    It's a bit comedy to everyone but fans.
    Really poor result for Leeds today. And I think it is still in your hands.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903
    Early December. I've actually suggested this for a while.

    The big positive is that last time it happened the Tories romped home. And there's a potential explanation for such wishful thinking - it's nearly Xmas and we all get a bit insular and happy.

    Also, it's not the last gasp, and it keeps Labour out for longer.

    I am really quite miserable that the one good political bet I've had for the last year or so is now scuppered by you attention though!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited April 13
    TOPPING said:

    Heathener said:

    It is becoming clear that Sunak is a ditherer, eclipsing even Theresa May. His ‘triangulation’ is driving everyone in Government nuts. Nothing is getting done, everything is being shelved.

    Therefore I think there’s very little chance of a quick summer election now. He will continue procrastinating until the autumn or early winter, unless he is forced out: which would be even more suicidal by the Conservative Party.

    They are in a terrible mess.

    Why is he dithering. He wants to stay in power for as long as he is entitled to stay in power.

    Why is that dithering.

    Oh of course because you want an election and likely change of government. So what.
    You misread my post.

    Sunak is a ditherer. On everything. Everyone in Gov’t knows it and is talking about it openly.

    So the real question is, ‘why would this be any different?’ The chances of him actually doing something decisive and seeing it through are extremely remote, especially as he will lose.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    December might appeal if he’s superstitious: repeat the success of the last election.

    Not much fun for the activists though. I did a fair bit of leafleting in December 2019 and it was miserable, wet and dark.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    He should compromise on November, I said entirely disinterestly..

    November 28th would be a good compromise. 👍
    I am happy for it to be in November

    Leicester promotion favourites once again? 😈
    Ipswich have to be most likely, but I think we have the advantage on Leeds.

    It's a bit comedy to everyone but fans.
    Really poor result for Leeds today. And I think it is still in your hands.
    We have a game in hand, and Leeds fixtures look worse, but Leicester fans are fed up with our predictable play. We have been found out.

    Ipswich deserve to go up.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    He should compromise on November, I said entirely disinterestly..

    November 28th would be a good compromise. 👍
    God no, that’s my birthday!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    TimS said:

    December might appeal if he’s superstitious: repeat the success of the last election.

    Not much fun for the activists though. I did a fair bit of leafleting in December 2019 and it was miserable, wet and dark.

    Leaflets normally aim to be more upbeat.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    He should compromise on November, I said entirely disinterestly..

    November 28th would be a good compromise. 👍
    God no, that’s my birthday!
    You can watch the results with a hangover.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    I know this one is the Guardian but it makes for interesting reading. You can find similar stories in the Telegraph and Sunday Times.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/13/sunak-may-be-petulant-but-hes-not-the-first-to-suffer-the-impatience-of-office?ref=upstract.com

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    Assuming these Conservative MPs do not actually want a Labour government, why agitate to get Keir Starmer into Downing Street earlier than necessary? There are 285 days to the general election, Thursday, 23rd January, 2025.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    He should compromise on November, I said entirely disinterestly..

    November 28th would be a good compromise. 👍
    I am happy for it to be in November

    Leicester promotion favourites once again? 😈
    Ipswich have to be most likely, but I think we have the advantage on Leeds.

    It's a bit comedy to everyone but fans.
    Blackburn did you a favour earlier!
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,853
    edited April 13
    TimS said:

    December might appeal if he’s superstitious: repeat the success of the last election.

    Not much fun for the activists though. I did a fair bit of leafleting in December 2019 and it was miserable, wet and dark.

    "Give yourself an early Christmas present. A Labour Government". Maybe better November.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    edited April 13
    Worth considering what national and global events might happen between now and December that could influence the election result. Off the top of my head:

    - Israel-Gaza war presumably (hopefully) dying down by then
    - Ukraine will either be hanging on, or losing to an increasingly cocky Russia
    - Inflation will be stable
    - Economy probably in moderate growth
    - US election will have just happened and will have influenced the UK campaign
    - Summer Olympics and Euros been and gone, and largely forgotten

    Something else massive will have happened. Just the law of averages. Could be a natural disaster, a financial markets crisis, a revolution, a terrorist attack in Britain, a notable death, a big political scandal. Something. I assume Sunak’s calculation is that any surprise is as likely to be positive for his party as negative.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903
    carnforth said:

    TimS said:

    December might appeal if he’s superstitious: repeat the success of the last election.

    Not much fun for the activists though. I did a fair bit of leafleting in December 2019 and it was miserable, wet and dark.

    "Give yourself an early Christmas present. A Labour Government". Maybe better November.
    We're really going to have to get behind Starmer in a big way. Ex, but natural, Tories like me need to hit the streets. Ra ra Star Mar. The country has to hold out under the comparatively tame regime in order that sense might rise once again!

  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited April 13

    Assuming these Conservative MPs do not actually want a Labour government, why agitate to get Keir Starmer into Downing Street earlier than necessary? There are 285 days to the general election, Thursday, 23rd January, 2025.

    Apart from that being a fairly silly comment (the date of the next election is not yet fixed), there’s a more serious point for the Conservatives around what they will get out of the election.

    Only a non-realist thinks there can now be a Conservative victory and in the absence of something bizarre turning up, the realist tories need to be asking themselves what will make for the best platform for recovery? My contention is that the longer this goes on, the lower will be their seat tally. They dropped another 2% in the opinion polls during March alone: https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

    If they go long, and especially if they go for January and (more contentiously) December they risk getting even more hammered than they will otherwise be. That could make their medium and long term recovery all the harder.

  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    He should compromise on November, I said entirely disinterestly..

    November 28th would be a good compromise. 👍
    God no, that’s my birthday!
    You can watch the results with a hangover.
    I prefer the 14th November. Day before my birthday so I can take the 15th off work.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568
    Groan. Just call the damn election. Enuff
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited April 13
    Leon said:

    Groan. Just call the damn election. Enuff

    Edit.

    Have a nice afternoon everyone ;)

    xx
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    I'm still looking at late October for the GE, but if they want to have a figleaf justification for leaving it nearly as late as possible, they could pick December and defend it on the basis that it would be exactly five years, which was the case with the FTPA, and was not evcen as late as it could have been.

    It wouldn't fool anyone, but it's a simple explanation which has an ostensibly non-political logic to it, so easy for candidates to remember and repeat correctly.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704

    Assuming these Conservative MPs do not actually want a Labour government, why agitate to get Keir Starmer into Downing Street earlier than necessary? There are 285 days to the general election, Thursday, 23rd January, 2025.

    Agreed; I’ve thought that for a long while. Sunak doesn’t do things until he has to, from what I can see.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Donkeys said:

    A quick note on Islam and babies: Islam teaches that all human beings are born Muslims (in a "state of purity") and that it is the influence on them by parents who follow another religion or who are atheists that makes them into non-Muslims in later life. It is an extreme crime according to Islam to murder any baby.

    FGM isn’t Islamic either. Some Muslims do it, but the vast majority don’t.
    It is barbarism for religious fanatics of all stripes. It was advocated strongly by Dr Kellogg.

    image
    Yes, something about extremism suddenly causes people to be obsessed with interferring with others' genitals. Not sure if that carries through to all types of extremism or if it is naturally more prevalent among religious obsessives.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997
    edited April 13
    TimS said:

    Worth considering what national and global events might happen between now and December that could influence the election result. Off the top of my head:

    - Israel-Gaza war presumably (hopefully) dying down by then
    - Ukraine will either be hanging on, or losing to an increasingly cocky Russia
    - Inflation will be stable
    - Economy probably in moderate growth
    - US election will have just happened and will have influenced the UK campaign
    - Summer Olympics and Euros been and gone, and largely forgotten

    Something else massive will have happened. Just the law of averages. Could be a natural disaster, a financial markets crisis, a revolution, a terrorist attack in Britain, a notable death, a big political scandal. Something. I assume Sunak’s calculation is that any surprise is as likely to be positive for his party as negative.

    That’s positively Rumsfeldian!

    Edit: oh, but don’t forget a million households that have had to remortgage at massively higher interest rates between now and then. They definitely won’t be feeling better off than five years ago.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    June/July is the emergency option.

    November or December is my bet, and I do think Sunak wants at least 2 years in the job.

    He will want a legacy of sorts as well.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    ydoethur said:

    Donkeys said:

    A quick note on Islam and babies: Islam teaches that all human beings are born Muslims (in a "state of purity") and that it is the influence on them by parents who follow another religion or who are atheists that makes them into non-Muslims in later life. It is an extreme crime according to Islam to murder any baby.

    FGM isn’t Islamic either. Some Muslims do it, but the vast majority don’t.
    It is barbarism for religious fanatics of all stripes. It was advocated strongly by Dr Kellogg.

    image
    I think his views deserve a Frostie reception.
    He sounds like he might appreciate a Crunchy Nut, though.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997

    June/July is the emergency option.

    November or December is my bet, and I do think Sunak wants at least 2 years in the job.

    He will want a legacy of sorts as well.

    If he wants a legacy that’s not two years of indicisive managerial declinism, then start shipping every weapon in the arsenal to Ukraine.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    kle4 said:

    Donkeys said:

    A quick note on Islam and babies: Islam teaches that all human beings are born Muslims (in a "state of purity") and that it is the influence on them by parents who follow another religion or who are atheists that makes them into non-Muslims in later life. It is an extreme crime according to Islam to murder any baby.

    FGM isn’t Islamic either. Some Muslims do it, but the vast majority don’t.
    It is barbarism for religious fanatics of all stripes. It was advocated strongly by Dr Kellogg.

    image
    Yes, something about extremism suddenly causes people to be obsessed with interferring with others' genitals. Not sure if that carries through to all types of extremism or if it is naturally more prevalent among religious obsessives.
    I'd b e happier if that quote was properly documented to an original source, all the same, even if it's not untypical of physicians of a certain era.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    TimS said:

    December might appeal if he’s superstitious: repeat the success of the last election.

    Not much fun for the activists though. I did a fair bit of leafleting in December 2019 and it was miserable, wet and dark.

    I wouldn't wish to make it worse, but I'm far from convinced leafleting is effective in any case, and that cases when it appears to be dispositive are probably pretty rare.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693

    December or January 2025 are quite likely.

    If he wants to go sooner then October would be better (still long, but before clocks change).

    I can't see any reason besides people's books why it'd be any other month.

    The more I think about it the more I think December makes sense.

    A full-term parliament makes sense, logically, it gives more time for recovery, and the shorter days and build up to Christmas rob Starmer somewhat of spotlight and campaign momentum.

    It wouldn't surprise me if it happened.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Donkeys said:

    A quick note on Islam and babies: Islam teaches that all human beings are born Muslims (in a "state of purity") and that it is the influence on them by parents who follow another religion or who are atheists that makes them into non-Muslims in later life. It is an extreme crime according to Islam to murder any baby.

    FGM isn’t Islamic either. Some Muslims do it, but the vast majority don’t.
    It is barbarism for religious fanatics of all stripes. It was advocated strongly by Dr Kellogg.

    image
    Yes, something about extremism suddenly causes people to be obsessed with interferring with others' genitals. Not sure if that carries through to all types of extremism or if it is naturally more prevalent among religious obsessives.
    I'd b e happier if that quote was properly documented to an original source, all the same, even if it's not untypical of physicians of a certain era.
    I'm sure it can be trusted

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    He should compromise on November, I said entirely disinterestly..

    November 28th would be a good compromise. 👍
    God no, that’s my birthday!
    You can watch the results with a hangover.
    A winter election would be four hours’ time difference, so it would be try and stay up until 2am for the exit poll, then get some sleep until about 7am when the bulk of the results are coming in. Definitely a day off work!
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,038
    FPT: Speaking of bottled water, there is a canned brand sold in the US called "Liquid Death".

    (So far I haven't tried it, but may if I can find a way to buy a single can, rather than a six-pack.)
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449

    December or January 2025 are quite likely.

    If he wants to go sooner then October would be better (still long, but before clocks change).

    I can't see any reason besides people's books why it'd be any other month.

    The more I think about it the more I think December makes sense.

    A full-term parliament makes sense, logically, it gives more time for recovery, and the shorter days and build up to Christmas rob Starmer somewhat of spotlight and campaign momentum.

    It wouldn't surprise me if it happened.
    December is what happens if nothing else happens- I'm working on the basis that not even Rishi would be dumb enough to have an election campaign that straddles Christmas.

    The only reasons to go sooner are if Something turns up that changes the political weather so that the PM can cut run and do well, or he has to press the nuclear MAD button to repel.internal critics. They both seem unlikely.

    So I expect him to hold off on the off chance that something turns up, even if it costs the post-election party an MP or two per week to do so.

    So December 19th it is.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997

    FPT: Speaking of bottled water, there is a canned brand sold in the US called "Liquid Death".

    (So far I haven't tried it, but may if I can find a way to buy a single can, rather than a six-pack.)

    It’s literally comedy water - as in a bunch of stand-up comics invested into the company, and realised that if they sponsor all the podcasts they’d sell loads of it.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,038
    Also from the previous thread: If the NYT can't get along with a journalist as competent and fair as Bari Weiss, something is seriously wrong with the newspaper.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bari_Weiss

    (This bit from her Wikipedia bio impresses me: " After high school, Weiss went to Israel on a Nativ gap year program, helping build a medical clinic for Bedouins in the Negev desert and studying at a feminist yeshiva and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.")
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997

    Also from the previous thread: If the NYT can't get along with a journalist as competent and fair as Bari Weiss, something is seriously wrong with the newspaper.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bari_Weiss

    (This bit from her Wikipedia bio impresses me: " After high school, Weiss went to Israel on a Nativ gap year program, helping build a medical clinic for Bedouins in the Negev desert and studying at a feminist yeshiva and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.")

    Her letter of resignation from the NYT was epic.

    https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167
    edited April 13
    I f Sunak goes late, that gives the government time to sign on the dotted line and commit £20 billion to carbon capture and storage (scheduled for September) before the campaign gets underway.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    edited April 13
    The other appeal of December (or November) to Sunak and his earth salting cabinet is that Labour won’t get the new dawn has broken optics they’d like to set their new government on the right track.

    Blair benefited from a warm 2nd May morning, the birds tweeting, tired partygoers still up as the sun rose over an optimistic land.

    On a morning in December, probably grim and damp, the victorious Starmer won’t be basking in the bright rays of Browning’s glad, confident morning. He’ll be emerging into the early light of Hardy’s Woodlanders:

    There was now a distinct manifestation of morning in the air, and presently the bleared white visage of a sunless winter day emerged like a dead-born child.

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903

    Also from the previous thread: If the NYT can't get along with a journalist as competent and fair as Bari Weiss, something is seriously wrong with the newspaper.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bari_Weiss

    (This bit from her Wikipedia bio impresses me: " After high school, Weiss went to Israel on a Nativ gap year program, helping build a medical clinic for Bedouins in the Negev desert and studying at a feminist yeshiva and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.")

    The decline of the press is a really unwelcome thing. The internet has spawned all manner of note-takers, and far worse the copy-mongers. Far worse the actual reporters have been so buffeted that they've fallen back.

    Once upon a time I used to buy, every morning, a copy of a paper called the Independent. It had a good coverage of a somewhat reduced world from the great newspapers, but it was nicely poised in terms of its editorial policy. That newspaper is long gone, and the journalistic space is gone too.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,109

    I f Sunak goes late, that gives the government time to sign on the dotted line and commit £20 billion to carbon capture and storage (scheduled for September) before the campaign gets underway.

    Is this demonstrated technology carbon capture? Or “Make me good, but not just yet” research?
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    Some of us predicted 12/12 in the New Year poll.....which means you can completely rule that one out.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,038
    On topic: As an American, I love these timing discussions, because there is so little of that in US politics. The differences help me understand the politics here, in much the same way that learning a foreign language often helps you understand your native language.

    (US politicians can sometimes choose when special elections are held, but even that is rare.)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167

    Also from the previous thread: If the NYT can't get along with a journalist as competent and fair as Bari Weiss, something is seriously wrong with the newspaper.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bari_Weiss

    (This bit from her Wikipedia bio impresses me: " After high school, Weiss went to Israel on a Nativ gap year program, helping build a medical clinic for Bedouins in the Negev desert and studying at a feminist yeshiva and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.")

    So this is a different person to Barry Weiss off Storage Wars. I was somewhat puzzled.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167

    I f Sunak goes late, that gives the government time to sign on the dotted line and commit £20 billion to carbon capture and storage (scheduled for September) before the campaign gets underway.

    Is this demonstrated technology carbon capture? Or “Make me good, but not just yet” research?
    Boundary Dam, 1 million tonnes per annum. Shell Cansolv technology.

    Petra Nova, 1.5 million tonnes per annum. MHI technology.

    I call that demonstrated.

    (Other technology providers are also available.)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,109
    Omnium said:

    Also from the previous thread: If the NYT can't get along with a journalist as competent and fair as Bari Weiss, something is seriously wrong with the newspaper.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bari_Weiss

    (This bit from her Wikipedia bio impresses me: " After high school, Weiss went to Israel on a Nativ gap year program, helping build a medical clinic for Bedouins in the Negev desert and studying at a feminist yeshiva and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.")

    The decline of the press is a really unwelcome thing. The internet has spawned all manner of note-takers, and far worse the copy-mongers. Far worse the actual reporters have been so buffeted that they've fallen back.

    Once upon a time I used to buy, every morning, a copy of a paper called the Independent. It had a good coverage of a somewhat reduced world from the great newspapers, but it was nicely poised in terms of its editorial policy. That newspaper is long gone, and the journalistic space is gone too.
    When I was very young, I would read the newspapers with my father - Times, Telegraph, Guardian and the then new Independent. In its first incarnation it was as close to objective and centrist as anything I’ve seen since.

    I still miss that. That and the old style Economist and Scientific American - before both dumbed down.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,109

    I f Sunak goes late, that gives the government time to sign on the dotted line and commit £20 billion to carbon capture and storage (scheduled for September) before the campaign gets underway.

    Is this demonstrated technology carbon capture? Or “Make me good, but not just yet” research?
    Boundary Dam, 1 million tonnes per annum. Shell Cansolv technology.

    Petra Nova, 1.5 million tonnes per annum. MHI technology.

    I call that demonstrated.

    (Other technology providers are also available.)
    But is this what is being proposed to be used here? - there is a history of carbon capture money ending up as a subsidy for CO2 emitters. To “study the problem”.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,890
    edited April 13
    Call that election now! The NHS is on the up.

    Rishi Sunak claims “his plan is working" and has been telling us this week the NHS waiting list at the end of February fell by just over 36,000. However the decline could be accounted for by the exclusion in the February figures of just over 36,000 pathway cases (cases where a patient is awaiting treatment).
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214

    On topic: As an American, I love these timing discussions, because there is so little of that in US politics. The differences help me understand the politics here, in much the same way that learning a foreign language often helps you understand your native language.

    (US politicians can sometimes choose when special elections are held, but even that is rare.)

    I used to struggle to get my head around the interminable length of the US primary season, until we started having Tory and Labour contests every couple of months.

    The other exotic electoral features in foreign systems are the first round and runoff in the French presidential, and of course the lengthy coalition negotiations combined with regular dissolution of parliament that happen in European PR systems like the Netherlands.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903

    Omnium said:

    Also from the previous thread: If the NYT can't get along with a journalist as competent and fair as Bari Weiss, something is seriously wrong with the newspaper.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bari_Weiss

    (This bit from her Wikipedia bio impresses me: " After high school, Weiss went to Israel on a Nativ gap year program, helping build a medical clinic for Bedouins in the Negev desert and studying at a feminist yeshiva and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.")

    The decline of the press is a really unwelcome thing. The internet has spawned all manner of note-takers, and far worse the copy-mongers. Far worse the actual reporters have been so buffeted that they've fallen back.

    Once upon a time I used to buy, every morning, a copy of a paper called the Independent. It had a good coverage of a somewhat reduced world from the great newspapers, but it was nicely poised in terms of its editorial policy. That newspaper is long gone, and the journalistic space is gone too.
    When I was very young, I would read the newspapers with my father - Times, Telegraph, Guardian and the then new Independent. In its first incarnation it was as close to objective and centrist as anything I’ve seen since.

    I still miss that. That and the old style Economist and Scientific American - before both dumbed down.
    So do I! I think that perhaps we are both too young to have really seen the greatest journalism. I've no idea quite when that might have been, but I do know that my favourite journalist is one who's stories I never read - that being James Cameron.

    I'll forgive Scientific American a little in that the science has become very technical and the readership less educated.

    The Economist has always been good apart from any coverage of Economics.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167

    I f Sunak goes late, that gives the government time to sign on the dotted line and commit £20 billion to carbon capture and storage (scheduled for September) before the campaign gets underway.

    Is this demonstrated technology carbon capture? Or “Make me good, but not just yet” research?
    Boundary Dam, 1 million tonnes per annum. Shell Cansolv technology.

    Petra Nova, 1.5 million tonnes per annum. MHI technology.

    I call that demonstrated.

    (Other technology providers are also available.)
    But is this what is being proposed to be used here? - there is a history of carbon capture money ending up as a subsidy for CO2 emitters. To “study the problem”.
    What is proposed is two clusters to come on line later this decade. Hynet, with up to five capture projects, and East Coast Cluster, with up to a further three. Large scale, multimillion tonnes per annum in total. Industrial, power and blue hydrogen projects.

    More to follow, subject to funding, with two more clusters (Acorn and Viking) by 2030. Plus expansion of the first two clusters.

    The aim is to be capturing and storing 20 million tonnes per annum by 2030. And that's not the end of it - further expansion to follow.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,240
    edited April 13
    The Honeytrap business is getting ever murkier. Politicians of all main parties have been targeted seemingly at scale along with political journalists with either gay or straight hooks depending on their orientation. The honeytrapper is speculated to be a political journalist or operator.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68796369

    The Murdoch press and the Mail have barely reported the story and appear to have no interest in exploring what's behind it, unlike the seemingly much more trivial Rayner story.


  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,038
    From a previous day: Why it might be profitable to mine helium-3 on the moon:
    "Virtually all helium-3 used in industry today is produced from the radioactive decay of tritium, given its very low natural abundance and its very high cost."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-3#Human_production

    To repeat, "might". And I will freely admit that it depends on two other developments, one nearly certain and one possible, but not at all certain: lower prices for travel to and from the moon, and commercial fusion power, using the isotope.

    (The company pursuing this has said that they might have a working system in as little as ten years.)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167

    Call that election now! The NHS is on the up.

    Rishi Sunak claims “his plan is working" and has been telling us this week the NHS waiting list at the end of February fell by just over 36,000. However the decline could be accounted for by the exclusion in the February figures of just over 36,000 pathway cases (cases where a patient is awaiting treatment).

    So 'awaiting' doesn't count as 'waiting'.

    Smoke and mirrors.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,109

    I f Sunak goes late, that gives the government time to sign on the dotted line and commit £20 billion to carbon capture and storage (scheduled for September) before the campaign gets underway.

    Is this demonstrated technology carbon capture? Or “Make me good, but not just yet” research?
    Boundary Dam, 1 million tonnes per annum. Shell Cansolv technology.

    Petra Nova, 1.5 million tonnes per annum. MHI technology.

    I call that demonstrated.

    (Other technology providers are also available.)
    But is this what is being proposed to be used here? - there is a history of carbon capture money ending up as a subsidy for CO2 emitters. To “study the problem”.
    What is proposed is two clusters to come on line later this decade. Hynet, with up to five capture projects, and East Coast Cluster, with up to a further three. Large scale, multimillion tonnes per annum in total. Industrial, power and blue hydrogen projects.

    More to follow, subject to funding, with two more clusters (Acorn and Viking) by 2030. Plus expansion of the first two clusters.

    The aim is to be capturing and storing 20 million tonnes per annum by 2030. And that's not the end of it - further expansion to follow.
    DAC or tied to specific emitters?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    Please Rishi, just get on with the election and put this farce of a government out of it's misery!
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,778
    It's such a funny idea that Rishi Sunak could have anything whatsoever to contribute to an AI project.

    Or, for that matter, anything at all with 'Intelligence' in the title.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    GIN1138 said:

    Please Rishi, just get on with the election and put this farce of a government out of it's misery!

    "Don't forget to scan your ClubCard!"
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376

    June/July is the emergency option.

    November or December is my bet, and I do think Sunak wants at least 2 years in the job.

    He will want a legacy of sorts as well.

    He's going to get a "legacy" all right - The man who took the Tories down to an even worse defeat than John Major... 😂
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,109

    From a previous day: Why it might be profitable to mine helium-3 on the moon:
    "Virtually all helium-3 used in industry today is produced from the radioactive decay of tritium, given its very low natural abundance and its very high cost."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-3#Human_production

    To repeat, "might". And I will freely admit that it depends on two other developments, one nearly certain and one possible, but not at all certain: lower prices for travel to and from the moon, and commercial fusion power, using the isotope.

    (The company pursuing this has said that they might have a working system in as little as ten years.)

    Given the price of Helium-3, production by filtering Helium from natural gas would be a way to get more of it. But there is a limited usage at the moment, so increasing production would risk crashing the price.

    No one in Fusion is really looking at Helium-3. It’s an order of magnitude beyond D-T Fusion and that’s years off, even if ITER works right.

    Even if Starship gets launch down to $50 per kilo to LEO, I don’t see Helium-3 from the moon being a big thing.

    If nothing else, with the neutron deluge in a D-T reactor, you can make elements in kilos per hour. So a few D-T reactors could make all the Helium-3 you’d ever want.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177

    I f Sunak goes late, that gives the government time to sign on the dotted line and commit £20 billion to carbon capture and storage (scheduled for September) before the campaign gets underway.

    That would be another example of this government wasting billions on an infrastructure project.

    The kind of CCS they seem to be envisaging is unjustifiably expensive.

    It would be far better for both the country's economy and fur helping to address climate change to spend the money on improving the electric grid, and investment in storage projects.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,145

    December or January 2025 are quite likely.

    If he wants to go sooner then October would be better (still long, but before clocks change).

    I can't see any reason besides people's books why it'd be any other month.

    The more I think about it the more I think December makes sense.

    A full-term parliament makes sense, logically, it gives more time for recovery, and the shorter days and build up to Christmas rob Starmer somewhat of spotlight and campaign momentum.

    It wouldn't surprise me if it happened.
    If there is no spotlight on the campaign Labour win by default. With a spotlight, maybe Labour get in a May style pickle for some strange reason. So expect the genius strategists advising the party to go for no spotlight.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177

    From a previous day: Why it might be profitable to mine helium-3 on the moon:
    "Virtually all helium-3 used in industry today is produced from the radioactive decay of tritium, given its very low natural abundance and its very high cost."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-3#Human_production

    To repeat, "might". And I will freely admit that it depends on two other developments, one nearly certain and one possible, but not at all certain: lower prices for travel to and from the moon, and commercial fusion power, using the isotope.

    (The company pursuing this has said that they might have a working system in as little as ten years.)

    Who are they going to sell it to ?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167

    I f Sunak goes late, that gives the government time to sign on the dotted line and commit £20 billion to carbon capture and storage (scheduled for September) before the campaign gets underway.

    Is this demonstrated technology carbon capture? Or “Make me good, but not just yet” research?
    Boundary Dam, 1 million tonnes per annum. Shell Cansolv technology.

    Petra Nova, 1.5 million tonnes per annum. MHI technology.

    I call that demonstrated.

    (Other technology providers are also available.)
    But is this what is being proposed to be used here? - there is a history of carbon capture money ending up as a subsidy for CO2 emitters. To “study the problem”.
    What is proposed is two clusters to come on line later this decade. Hynet, with up to five capture projects, and East Coast Cluster, with up to a further three. Large scale, multimillion tonnes per annum in total. Industrial, power and blue hydrogen projects.

    More to follow, subject to funding, with two more clusters (Acorn and Viking) by 2030. Plus expansion of the first two clusters.

    The aim is to be capturing and storing 20 million tonnes per annum by 2030. And that's not the end of it - further expansion to follow.
    DAC or tied to specific emitters?
    None of the first tranche of projects are DAC. As I said, Industrial, power and blue hydrogen projects. There may be DAC further down the line. Along with BECCS (e.g. Drax and their wood pellets).
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,778

    GIN1138 said:

    Please Rishi, just get on with the election and put this farce of a government out of it's misery!

    "Don't forget to scan your ClubCard!"
    Please be kind by telling him exactly how to scan a card.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177

    I f Sunak goes late, that gives the government time to sign on the dotted line and commit £20 billion to carbon capture and storage (scheduled for September) before the campaign gets underway.

    Is this demonstrated technology carbon capture? Or “Make me good, but not just yet” research?
    Boundary Dam, 1 million tonnes per annum. Shell Cansolv technology.

    Petra Nova, 1.5 million tonnes per annum. MHI technology.

    I call that demonstrated.

    (Other technology providers are also available.)
    But is this what is being proposed to be used here? - there is a history of carbon capture money ending up as a subsidy for CO2 emitters. To “study the problem”.
    What is proposed is two clusters to come on line later this decade. Hynet, with up to five capture projects, and East Coast Cluster, with up to a further three. Large scale, multimillion tonnes per annum in total. Industrial, power and blue hydrogen projects.

    More to follow, subject to funding, with two more clusters (Acorn and Viking) by 2030. Plus expansion of the first two clusters.

    The aim is to be capturing and storing 20 million tonnes per annum by 2030. And that's not the end of it - further expansion to follow.
    An enormous boondoggle.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    Donkeys said:

    A quick note on Islam and babies: Islam teaches that all human beings are born Muslims (in a "state of purity") and that it is the influence on them by parents who follow another religion or who are atheists that makes them into non-Muslims in later life. It is an extreme crime according to Islam to murder any baby.

    FGM isn’t Islamic either. Some Muslims do it, but the vast majority don’t.
    It is barbarism for religious fanatics of all stripes. It was advocated strongly by Dr Kellogg.

    image
    Oh, well, both Jews and Muslims are into circumcision...
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Rishi will wait as maybe he thinks that like for his football team something will turn up at the last minute!!!!!

    😡😡😡😡😡
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    edited April 13
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Donkeys said:

    A quick note on Islam and babies: Islam teaches that all human beings are born Muslims (in a "state of purity") and that it is the influence on them by parents who follow another religion or who are atheists that makes them into non-Muslims in later life. It is an extreme crime according to Islam to murder any baby.

    FGM isn’t Islamic either. Some Muslims do it, but the vast majority don’t.
    It is barbarism for religious fanatics of all stripes. It was advocated strongly by Dr Kellogg.

    image
    Yes, something about extremism suddenly causes people to be obsessed with interferring with others' genitals. Not sure if that carries through to all types of extremism or if it is naturally more prevalent among religious obsessives.
    I'd b e happier if that quote was properly documented to an original source, all the same, even if it's not untypical of physicians of a certain era.
    I don't know about that original quote, but the Kelloggs story is quite an amazing one - I listened to a podcast on it once. From memory, there were two Kellogs brothers; One ran a religious sanitorium, and created a breakfast cereal for the guests. This was a massive change from the 'usual' breakfast foods or oats, but he refused to sell it to anyone who was not of the religion.

    His brother used the recipe and set up a rival Kelloggs company that would sell to anyone (yes, they were both called Kelloggs), which became massive. As it happens, others in the same town started making breakfast cereals at the same time, and one of these was my favourite - Grape Nuts, invented by an ex-patient of the sanitorium.

    Given the religious context, I can believe the quote...
    "His development of a bland diet was driven in part by the Adventist goal of reducing sexual stimulation.[37]"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903
    I've had enough of the awful Sean Farrignton on R4. He's a fucking plague of ghastliness. Enough, Enough, and fucking Enough.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568
    This is quite something. Guy's first reaction to the Sydney killings is to feed it into his.... anti-bike-lane narrative

    "The police and ambulance staging outside Westfield Bondi Junction would have been severely impacted by bike lanes which had been proposed for the area. The Eastern Suburbs is a heavily congested area which impacts ambo arrival and transport. This will be a first responder case study for years."

    https://x.com/VoteLewko/status/1779048501395263845
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    Leon said:

    This is quite something. Guy's first reaction to the Sydney killings is to feed it into his.... anti-bike-lane narrative

    "The police and ambulance staging outside Westfield Bondi Junction would have been severely impacted by bike lanes which had been proposed for the area. The Eastern Suburbs is a heavily congested area which impacts ambo arrival and transport. This will be a first responder case study for years."

    https://x.com/VoteLewko/status/1779048501395263845

    Hypothetical bike lanes are evil and the lady policeman lost her hat.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    ydoethur said:

    Donkeys said:

    A quick note on Islam and babies: Islam teaches that all human beings are born Muslims (in a "state of purity") and that it is the influence on them by parents who follow another religion or who are atheists that makes them into non-Muslims in later life. It is an extreme crime according to Islam to murder any baby.

    FGM isn’t Islamic either. Some Muslims do it, but the vast majority don’t.
    It is barbarism for religious fanatics of all stripes. It was advocated strongly by Dr Kellogg.

    image
    I think his views deserve a Frostie reception.
    Can recall being urged (urgently by the Kellogg Co.) back in the Dark Ages of late 20th century, to:

    "Eat your Wheaties - look what Wheaties did for Bruce Jenner!"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177
    An article setting out some of the problems with CCS.

    Why the Cost of Carbon Capture and Storage Remains Persistently High
    https://www.iisd.org/articles/deep-dive/why-carbon-capture-storage-cost-remains-high
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    GIN1138 said:
    I'm guessing the answer is no since the Mail is plugging a video not the front page.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568
    edited April 13

    Leon said:

    This is quite something. Guy's first reaction to the Sydney killings is to feed it into his.... anti-bike-lane narrative

    "The police and ambulance staging outside Westfield Bondi Junction would have been severely impacted by bike lanes which had been proposed for the area. The Eastern Suburbs is a heavily congested area which impacts ambo arrival and transport. This will be a first responder case study for years."

    https://x.com/VoteLewko/status/1779048501395263845

    Hypothetical bike lanes are evil and the lady policeman lost her hat.
    What gets me about the whole Ukraine situation is that there's no provision for vegans

    Like, OK, 300,000 are dead and Russia has laid waste to most of east Ukraine and it will possibly turn into World War Three but surely there could be at least one pop-up falafel stall? Is that so hard? Or a tofu buffet in a tent?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Donkeys said:

    A quick note on Islam and babies: Islam teaches that all human beings are born Muslims (in a "state of purity") and that it is the influence on them by parents who follow another religion or who are atheists that makes them into non-Muslims in later life. It is an extreme crime according to Islam to murder any baby.

    FGM isn’t Islamic either. Some Muslims do it, but the vast majority don’t.
    It is barbarism for religious fanatics of all stripes. It was advocated strongly by Dr Kellogg.

    image
    Yes, something about extremism suddenly causes people to be obsessed with interferring with others' genitals. Not sure if that carries through to all types of extremism or if it is naturally more prevalent among religious obsessives.
    I'd b e happier if that quote was properly documented to an original source, all the same, even if it's not untypical of physicians of a certain era.
    I don't know about that original quote, but the Kelloggs story is quite an amazing one - I listened to a podcast on it once. From memory, there were two Kellogs brothers; One ran a religious sanitorium, and created a breakfast cereal for the guests. This was a massive change from the 'usual' breakfast foods or oats, but he refused to sell it to anyone who was not of the religion.

    His brother used the recipe and set up a rival Kelloggs company that would sell to anyone (yes, they were both called Kelloggs), which became massive. As it happens, others in the same town started making breakfast cereals at the same time, and one of these was my favourite - Grape Nuts, invented by an ex-patient of the sanitorium.

    Given the religious context, I can believe the quote...
    "His development of a bland diet was driven in part by the Adventist goal of reducing sexual stimulation.[37]"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg
    Made into a book and film, "The Road To Wellville" in the 1990s. Was given a copy by some well-meaning (but easily confused) friends whilst detained at the NHS's pleasure.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    ydoethur said:

    Donkeys said:

    A quick note on Islam and babies: Islam teaches that all human beings are born Muslims (in a "state of purity") and that it is the influence on them by parents who follow another religion or who are atheists that makes them into non-Muslims in later life. It is an extreme crime according to Islam to murder any baby.

    FGM isn’t Islamic either. Some Muslims do it, but the vast majority don’t.
    It is barbarism for religious fanatics of all stripes. It was advocated strongly by Dr Kellogg.

    image
    I think his views deserve a Frostie reception.
    Can recall being urged (urgently by the Kellogg Co.) back in the Dark Ages of late 20th century, to:

    "Eat your Wheaties - look what Wheaties did for Bruce Jenner!"
    "For all intents and purposes, I'm a woman." - Caitlyn Jenner
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Just wonderful


  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Nigelb said:

    From a previous day: Why it might be profitable to mine helium-3 on the moon:
    "Virtually all helium-3 used in industry today is produced from the radioactive decay of tritium, given its very low natural abundance and its very high cost."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-3#Human_production

    To repeat, "might". And I will freely admit that it depends on two other developments, one nearly certain and one possible, but not at all certain: lower prices for travel to and from the moon, and commercial fusion power, using the isotope.

    (The company pursuing this has said that they might have a working system in as little as ten years.)

    Who are they going to sell it to ?
    Party balloon makers?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721
    Heathener said:

    What a brilliant win by Emma Raducanu. Britain into the finals.

    Yay!

    Good to see her having two fine matches back to back. Hopefully that will rebuild her confidence somewhat after the last couple of years.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903

    Nigelb said:

    From a previous day: Why it might be profitable to mine helium-3 on the moon:
    "Virtually all helium-3 used in industry today is produced from the radioactive decay of tritium, given its very low natural abundance and its very high cost."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-3#Human_production

    To repeat, "might". And I will freely admit that it depends on two other developments, one nearly certain and one possible, but not at all certain: lower prices for travel to and from the moon, and commercial fusion power, using the isotope.

    (The company pursuing this has said that they might have a working system in as little as ten years.)

    Who are they going to sell it to ?
    Party balloon makers?
    Balloons have gone out of fashion as candidates in safe seats. There's a risk of drift.
This discussion has been closed.