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Hobson’s Choice? The Subpostmaster issue – politicalbetting.com

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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,814

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Not sure this has been covered yet:

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745539594987192383?t=i22lPT0OZv2yiXr6ohLodQ&s=19

    🌹Labour 42% (-)
    🌳Conservatives 27% (-1)
    🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1)
    🟣Reform UK 9% (+1)
    💚Greens 8% (+2)
    Labour lead of 15
    Field work 9/1-11/1

    Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.

    "People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745538792335839305?t=pZTzHMeXMFjPwcM2jelWBQ&s=19

    One thing I like of this pollster is how they break down by generation, and also try to squeeze the initial "Don't Knows" into a choice.

    Lab ahead with all age groups under 75, even boomers. If forced to choose then DKs break fairly evenly, but narrowly for Labour.

    Strewth.
    If don't knows are breaking for Labour (even slightly) then that's devastating.
    If the crossover age is 75+ then...well.
    Yeah, but, no. All the don’t knows breaking Tory might vote on the day, whilst all those favouring Labour stay at home, might not remotely be even split from each.

    Something has happened reasonably recently for large number of voters to decide conclusively against Tories. I think it might have been Conference Season. I think Radical Rishi Unleashed & The Great HS2 Surrender has gone down badly with voters. Conservative drift downward seems to stem from that week?
    The HS2 decision really fucked the infrastructure industry in this country and has caused chaos, quite aside from it being economically devastating.

    I'm still furious about it. And the idea that Sunak thought this was evidence of him taking great decisions for the long-term that would appeal to voters.

    I mean, WTF?
    Now multiply this across pretty much every other sector and that Britain under Tory rule today.
    Starmer and Labour are no better, and the rest is just prejudice.

    We need sustained strategic investment to improve our productivity, growth and prospects as a nation.

    Instead we are obsessed with the sugar-rush fix of the current account.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,890

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Not sure this has been covered yet:

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745539594987192383?t=i22lPT0OZv2yiXr6ohLodQ&s=19

    🌹Labour 42% (-)
    🌳Conservatives 27% (-1)
    🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1)
    🟣Reform UK 9% (+1)
    💚Greens 8% (+2)
    Labour lead of 15
    Field work 9/1-11/1

    Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.

    "People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745538792335839305?t=pZTzHMeXMFjPwcM2jelWBQ&s=19

    One thing I like of this pollster is how they break down by generation, and also try to squeeze the initial "Don't Knows" into a choice.

    Lab ahead with all age groups under 75, even boomers. If forced to choose then DKs break fairly evenly, but narrowly for Labour.

    Strewth.
    If don't knows are breaking for Labour (even slightly) then that's devastating.
    If the crossover age is 75+ then...well.
    Yeah, but, no. All the don’t knows breaking Tory might vote on the day, whilst all those favouring Labour stay at home, might not remotely be even split from each.

    Something has happened reasonably recently for large number of voters to decide conclusively against Tories. I think it might have been Conference Season. I think Radical Rishi Unleashed & The Great HS2 Surrender has gone down badly with voters. Conservative drift downward seems to stem from that week?
    The HS2 decision really fucked the infrastructure industry in this country and has caused chaos, quite aside from it being economically devastating.

    I'm still furious about it. And the idea that Sunak thought this was evidence of him taking great decisions for the long-term that would appeal to voters.

    I mean, WTF?
    Now multiply this across pretty much every other sector and that Britain under Tory rule today.
    Starmer and Labour are no better, and the rest is just prejudice.

    We need sustained strategic investment to improve our productivity, growth and prospects as a nation.

    Instead we are obsessed with the sugar-rush fix of the current account.
    Labour have a modestly more positive approach to “sustained strategic investment”.

    Rishi positively abhors it, as he clearly signposted in his Mais lecture of February 2022.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,890
    Labour’s modestly more positive approach described quite well here in this clip. But note how badly the UK compares at the end.

    Low investment nation (and private sector investment tends to mirror public investment).

    https://x.com/edconwaysky/status/1745116163015655883?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,160

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    Despite inflation coming down, CoL by far the most important issue for most. Immigration drops to 4th place, displaced by climate.


    Note how low Brexit is.
    Also how low the war in Ukraine. In late 2022 it was far higher and Brits were willing to sacrifice heating in winter to help. Can we say the same now?
    What does worry me is how Defence isn't really on the list at all.
    Yeah. the Defence folks are gradually going nuts. The combination of a Government making decisions will-nilly, poor MoD procurement, underinvestment catching up with us, and rapidly-evolving warfare means that we have devoted not enough money to too many places with not enough equipment that can't get there and when they do get there they die because there aren't enough of them and they're out of date.

    https://nitter.net/nicholadrummond/status/1742102877362151906#m
    https://nitter.net/nicholadrummond/status/1743584529086898538#m
    https://nitter.net/robert_lyman/status/1744021201717010522#m
    https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com/2023/12/troubling-times-difficult-decisions.html
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    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,547
    biggles said: "I cannot see any version of the next five years that doesn’t end with war with Iran."

    For years I have been arguing that we are already in a low-level war with Iran, fought mostly against their proxies. (If there is a war-winning strategy for us in that war, I have been unable to think of it. Though I do think we should step up our propaganda efforts, especially those directed at young people in Iran.)

    (After Bush liberated Iraq from Saddam, the mullahs did halt their nuclear program for a couple of years. Scared straight, temporarily, I suppose.)
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,028
    Another year, another Middle eastern adventure
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,976
    edited January 12
    Trump is asked about the report that his businesses profited over $8 million from foreign governments including China while he was president. He said that is such a small amount of money and “I was doing services for them … I don’t get $8 million for doing nothing!”

    https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1745280894720504075?t=LusUqRGCvB1xZoeVfFAF_A&s=19

    Though I am sure that someone will be along shortly to say Hunter Biden is the real influence peddler.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,578
    Salford Quays - LibDem hold

    LD 540, Lab 322 Green 124
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,578
    In Dorset Littlemoor & Preston, the result comes in as a Tory hold, but the Tory candidate turns out ineligible to stand, so it will have to be held again.

    CON: 53.7% (+24.4)
    LDM: 36.2% (+19.1)
    LAB: 10.1% (-9.5)
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,578
    In Tendring, an independent gained a seat from the Tories. Reform got 9% - a very rare piece of actual voting data to support the poll ratings
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,024
    Another day, another war rather too close for comfort…
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,115
    Interesting long read article on Taiwan, ahead of the imminent election.

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/01/11/could-taiwan-be-the-next-ukraine-00135009
    ...“When a Taiwanese person comes to me [and] says, ‘You see what they did to Ukraine? They encouraged them to stand up and fight Russia. And then when things don’t go well, they’re abandoned.’ I find it very difficult to have a good comeback to that,” Oung said...
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,471

    isam said:

    By the way here is Sir Keir whilst DPP saying he carries “ultimate responsibility for all the decisions made in all of the hundreds of thousands of cases taken day in day out by the CPS”

    https://x.com/jamesefoster/status/1745541501663256687?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Today he is saying it would be ‘unreal’ to think he personally looked at every case. Sure, but would he still say he carried “ultimate responsibility for all decisions made” now though?

    https://x.com/bbcpolitics/status/1745474925190652034?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Has he gone yet?

    Ten more Isam-Starmer posts and he'll be out. No worries.

    I couldn't care less what happens to Starmer, but from your perspective why does Starmer still have to fall on his sword even if he wasn't aware of the 3 cases (as he has said) and the cases were legitimate anyway? Of course you were bellyaching that Johnson was wholly unaware of the fornication and vomit parties outside his bedroom window despite being the point at which the buck stopped.

    If Starmer has to go because he was unaware of every CPS case between 2008 and 2014, why do you believe Johnson should have stayed because all the scandals ON HIS WATCH were committed by other people? (Spoiler: they weren't)
    So, let me get this right. The guilty people in the Post Office scandal are:
    Keir Starmer
    Paula Vennels
    Keir Starmer
    Ed Davey
    Keir Starmer
    Horizon
    Keir Starmer
    Labour politicians
    Keir Starmer
    Lib Dem politicians
    Keir Starmer
    Lawyers
    Keir Starmer
    The innocent people are:
    Rishi Sunak
    Conservative Politicians
    Sub Postmasters
    Have I got that right?

    I think so.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,976
    IanB2 said:

    In Tendring, an independent gained a seat from the Tories. Reform got 9% - a very rare piece of actual voting data to support the poll ratings

    That's the best ever for reform in a real election, at any level.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,779
    Nigelb said:

    biggles said:

    Nigelb said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    carnforth said:

    Twitter claims, with video, that the air strikes have started (and that a US ship was hit by a Houthi missile) but no reliable source yet.

    If the latter is true, and a single U.S. sailor so much as broke a nail, then this is about to get much bigger.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_U.S._bases_in_Iraq_and_Syria_(2023–present)

    Starting on 17 October 2023, Iran-backed militias initiated a coordinated series of more than 115 attacks on U.S. military bases and assets in Syria and Iraq. These attacks resulted in injuries to dozens of U.S. servicemembers
    I cannot see any version of the next five years that doesn’t end with war with Iran.
    Can't the CIA start a revolution or something?
    I think they might see it coming this time round .
    It’s the fact that it’s exactly what they expect us to do that means we have the element of surprise. They’d never expect us to do the one thing they expect us to do.
    But you've just given the game away.

    Damn.
    They’ll never expect that
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,252

    Cyclefree said:

    Excerpt from impressive (in one sense) testimony of Stephen Bradshaw, Post Office Investigator

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbCZAXLwTgw

    Sorry is such a difficult word...

    In all seriousness, that was quite something.
    If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
    That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.

    In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?

    In this case, a series of witnesses claim that Bradshaw lied to them, hounded them, and mistreated them. See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67941754
    This is what he wrote in his appraisal. Contrast with what he told the Inquiry today.



    Another one suffering from sloping shoulders syndrome.
    That's fucking delicious. Even (1) and (3) - on top of the appallingness of (2):

    (1) um, I answered a phone call and gave some entirely banal advice that was day-job
    (3) I made a couple of comments during presentation by someone else on a training day.

    It tells me he's a useless valueless waste of space, and a snake.
    He's still employed by the Post Office. We are paying for this.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,128
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Excerpt from impressive (in one sense) testimony of Stephen Bradshaw, Post Office Investigator

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbCZAXLwTgw

    Sorry is such a difficult word...

    In all seriousness, that was quite something.
    If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
    That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.

    In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?

    In this case, a series of witnesses claim that Bradshaw lied to them, hounded them, and mistreated them. See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67941754
    This is what he wrote in his appraisal. Contrast with what he told the Inquiry today.



    Another one suffering from sloping shoulders syndrome.
    That's fucking delicious. Even (1) and (3) - on top of the appallingness of (2):

    (1) um, I answered a phone call and gave some entirely banal advice that was day-job
    (3) I made a couple of comments during presentation by someone else on a training day.

    It tells me he's a useless valueless waste of space, and a snake.
    He's still employed by the Post Office. We are paying for this.
    Well, from their point of view, he’s doing a good job!

    I’d say good morning, but it doesn’t seem appropriate to the comment!
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,083
    edited January 12

    biggles said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Been out all day so only just catching up. The British and American governments are planning military action against Sir Keir Starmer for his disruption of shipping in the Red Sea - have I got that right?

    I don’t want to panic unduly, but. Should we brace for global thermonuclear war?

    This evening on the next table at the Anchor and Hope was Matthew Broderick. (With his wife Sarah Jessica Parker and some thesps - they’re on at the Old Vic).

    My friend said “look, it’s Ferris Bueller”. I
    Thought: “Global thermonuclear war. The only winning move is not to play”. And sex in the city.
    Great pub, although I haven’t been there for years. Used to be the only decent grub around Waterloo.
    Still very good. It manages to feel a bit like a Paris bistrot or Lyon bouchon without trying too hard. People complain about the noise but it’s not that loud.

    Though there’s been Meson don Felipe just opposite for decades too and that’s a pretty decent and authentic tapas place.

    Oh and apparently Matthew and Sarah aren’t on at the Old Vic, they’re at the Savoy theatre. So they were venturing SOTR for dinner.
    I dropped my phone down the toilet whilst on a date at Meson don Felipe! Little bloke playing guitar near the ceiling that night too.

    I used to really love that area. The Laughing Gravy went from being a bit of a rough and tumble restaurant to a bit of a foodie fav I think. The Baltic was nice for a date too
    I agree it’s a great little area and a bit under the radar still. I used to work quite close too and spent much more time around there. I should go more often, it’s only half an hour on the bus.
    Totally different end of the spectrum but Masters Super Fish, round the corner and on the Waterloo Rd is (or was) a good chippy, and they are very rare in London. Bizarrely it gets (or at least used to get) coach parties.
    Fish & chips is, for 99.46% of Americans, about the only British culinary classic we'll ask for Over There.

    Certainly NOT eager to sample mushy peas, kidney pie, jellied eels, vegan haggis OR spotted dick (WTF??)
    Spotted dick, taken with custard (or vanilla sauce if you want to remain in that sort of double entendre mind). Yum. Hungry all over again now, and I've just had breakfast.

    https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/spotted-dick
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,083
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Excerpt from impressive (in one sense) testimony of Stephen Bradshaw, Post Office Investigator

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbCZAXLwTgw

    Sorry is such a difficult word...

    In all seriousness, that was quite something.
    If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
    That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.

    In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?

    In this case, a series of witnesses claim that Bradshaw lied to them, hounded them, and mistreated them. See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67941754
    This is what he wrote in his appraisal. Contrast with what he told the Inquiry today.



    Another one suffering from sloping shoulders syndrome.
    That's fucking delicious. Even (1) and (3) - on top of the appallingness of (2):

    (1) um, I answered a phone call and gave some entirely banal advice that was day-job
    (3) I made a couple of comments during presentation by someone else on a training day.

    It tells me he's a useless valueless waste of space, and a snake.
    He's still employed by the Post Office. We are paying for this.
    Talking about paying for the PO, Mrs C and I spent £4 altogether on excess postage from unwitting Christmas correspondents - stamp wrong kind and package fractionally over 5mm thick. But that is Royal Mail. However, I've just noticed the postage rates now differ according to whether you get your mail stamped by online download and printout, or post at a PO - and *it's more expensive at a PO*. But it's not at all apparent because the website tends to give prices for one or the other, with one or two exceptions such as this:

    https://www.royalmail.com/sending/uk/1st-class (click on the 'Prices and Compensation for Royal Mail 1sdt Class' bit)

    Still more complexity and chances to charge excess postage penalties. I haven't even worked out which rate to use for something sent with stamps I bought in advance and stuck on ...
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,666
    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Excerpt from impressive (in one sense) testimony of Stephen Bradshaw, Post Office Investigator

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbCZAXLwTgw

    Sorry is such a difficult word...

    In all seriousness, that was quite something.
    If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
    That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.

    In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?

    In this case, a series of witnesses claim that Bradshaw lied to them, hounded them, and mistreated them. See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67941754
    This is what he wrote in his appraisal. Contrast with what he told the Inquiry today.



    Another one suffering from sloping shoulders syndrome.
    That's fucking delicious. Even (1) and (3) - on top of the appallingness of (2):

    (1) um, I answered a phone call and gave some entirely banal advice that was day-job
    (3) I made a couple of comments during presentation by someone else on a training day.

    It tells me he's a useless valueless waste of space, and a snake.
    He's still employed by the Post Office. We are paying for this.
    Talking about paying for the PO, Mrs C and I spent £4 altogether on excess postage from unwitting Christmas correspondents - stamp wrong kind and package fractionally over 5mm thick. But that is Royal Mail. However, I've just noticed the postage rates now differ according to whether you get your mail stamped by online download and printout, or post at a PO - and *it's more expensive at a PO*. But it's not at all apparent because the website tends to give prices for one or the other, with one or two exceptions such as this:

    https://www.royalmail.com/sending/uk/1st-class (click on the 'Prices and Compensation for Royal Mail 1sdt Class' bit)

    Still more complexity and chances to charge excess postage penalties. I haven't even worked out which rate to use for something sent with stamps I bought in advance and stuck on ...
    They charged me £5 to hand it to me. It was just a card.
This discussion has been closed.