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Hobson’s Choice? The Subpostmaster issue – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,014
edited January 14 in General
imageHobson’s Choice? The Subpostmaster issue – politicalbetting.com

The announcement of a law to overturn the subpostmasters’ convictions has provoked some concern amongst m’learned friends, on constitutional grounds. Are these valid? Why is the government in this position?

Read the full story here

«1345

Comments

  • Options
    First.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    On topic. I don’t agree.
  • Options
    Rishi Sunak is planning a general election on 14 November, according to the former chancellor George Osborne, as the prime minister looks to maximise the amount of time he has to recover the Conservatives’ poll deficit before polling day.

    Speaking on Political Currency, the podcast he hosts with the former Labour cabinet minister Ed Balls, Osborne said he had been told Sunak’s team were working towards the date in mid-November as the target for an election.

    Sunak has said his “working assumption” is that he will hold the vote in the second half of the year, while Conservative sources say a final decision has not yet been taken over a date.

    Osborne, who is close to many of those around Sunak, told the podcast: “A little birdie has told me that the various work programmes required to get ready for a general election have that date singled out – 14 November.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/11/general-election-likely-to-take-place-on-14-november-says-george-osborne?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    Four quick clips of Sir Keir here

    Three from the last year or two, boasting of being the DPP in charge of ALL prosecutions across England & Wales then another, from today, laughing at the idea he could have been expected to know about every prosecution in England & Wales

    https://x.com/timmyvoe240886/status/1745502690472329592?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    isam said:

    Four quick clips of Sir Keir here

    Three from the last year or two, boasting of being the DPP in charge of ALL prosecutions across England & Wales then another, from today, laughing at the idea he could have been expected to know about every prosecution in England & Wales

    https://x.com/timmyvoe240886/status/1745502690472329592?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Currygate continues to roll on.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,547
    More Keir Fear ever-more rampant here.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302

    Rishi Sunak is planning a general election on 14 November, according to the former chancellor George Osborne, as the prime minister looks to maximise the amount of time he has to recover the Conservatives’ poll deficit before polling day.

    Speaking on Political Currency, the podcast he hosts with the former Labour cabinet minister Ed Balls, Osborne said he had been told Sunak’s team were working towards the date in mid-November as the target for an election.

    Sunak has said his “working assumption” is that he will hold the vote in the second half of the year, while Conservative sources say a final decision has not yet been taken over a date.

    Osborne, who is close to many of those around Sunak, told the podcast: “A little birdie has told me that the various work programmes required to get ready for a general election have that date singled out – 14 November.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/11/general-election-likely-to-take-place-on-14-november-says-george-osborne?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    So Cameron's told him then.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,319

    Anyone whoever criticised Cyclefree's pieces can get in the fucking sea, she is a secular saint for pointing and making sure we know so much about this scandal.

    And all the other scandals that ITV hasn’t made a docudrama of….

    @Cyclefree - time to pitch a series to ITV?
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,547
    Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry - Day 103 AM (11 January 2024)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ju10y6KBEI

    On the griddle - Stephen Bradshaw, Post Office Investigator
  • Options
    isam said:

    Four quick clips of Sir Keir here

    Three from the last year or two, boasting of being the DPP in charge of ALL prosecutions across England & Wales then another, from today, laughing at the idea he could have been expected to know about every prosecution in England & Wales

    https://x.com/timmyvoe240886/status/1745502690472329592?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    That Timmy Voe fella seems to be more obsessed about Starmer than either you or BJO, didn't think that was possible.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,117

    Anyone whoever criticised Cyclefree's pieces can get in the fucking sea ...

    Thanks.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,911

    isam said:

    Four quick clips of Sir Keir here

    Three from the last year or two, boasting of being the DPP in charge of ALL prosecutions across England & Wales then another, from today, laughing at the idea he could have been expected to know about every prosecution in England & Wales

    https://x.com/timmyvoe240886/status/1745502690472329592?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Currygate continues to roll on.
    His opposition to Boris really is like a shield of steel
  • Options

    Rishi Sunak is planning a general election on 14 November, according to the former chancellor George Osborne, as the prime minister looks to maximise the amount of time he has to recover the Conservatives’ poll deficit before polling day.

    Speaking on Political Currency, the podcast he hosts with the former Labour cabinet minister Ed Balls, Osborne said he had been told Sunak’s team were working towards the date in mid-November as the target for an election.

    Sunak has said his “working assumption” is that he will hold the vote in the second half of the year, while Conservative sources say a final decision has not yet been taken over a date.

    Osborne, who is close to many of those around Sunak, told the podcast: “A little birdie has told me that the various work programmes required to get ready for a general election have that date singled out – 14 November.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/11/general-election-likely-to-take-place-on-14-november-says-george-osborne?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    So Cameron's told him then.
    Reality is advertising and polling services need to be bought now for October/November time.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,547

    Anyone whoever criticised Cyclefree's pieces can get in the fucking sea, she is a secular saint for pointing and making sure we know so much about this scandal.

    And all the other scandals that ITV hasn’t made a docudrama of….

    @Cyclefree - time to pitch a series to ITV?
    "Stephen Bradshaw, Post Office Investigator"

    Along the lines of "Brooklyn Nine-Nine"? (Which was homage to "Car 54 Where Are You?")
  • Options
    FPT

    @FF43

    " I don't think this scandal is primarily a failure by any politician. "

    I agree, but it is primarily a failure by government. The failure is in its relationship with the businesses it owns and runs, a failure which is apparent in more than one sector.

    If that is addressed as a result of this scandal, the colossal cost might even have been worth it.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302

    Rishi Sunak is planning a general election on 14 November, according to the former chancellor George Osborne, as the prime minister looks to maximise the amount of time he has to recover the Conservatives’ poll deficit before polling day.

    Speaking on Political Currency, the podcast he hosts with the former Labour cabinet minister Ed Balls, Osborne said he had been told Sunak’s team were working towards the date in mid-November as the target for an election.

    Sunak has said his “working assumption” is that he will hold the vote in the second half of the year, while Conservative sources say a final decision has not yet been taken over a date.

    Osborne, who is close to many of those around Sunak, told the podcast: “A little birdie has told me that the various work programmes required to get ready for a general election have that date singled out – 14 November.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/11/general-election-likely-to-take-place-on-14-november-says-george-osborne?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    So Cameron's told him then.
    Reality is advertising and polling services need to be bought now for October/November time.
    At an affordable price..
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    An excellent article. Thanks, Ms Free.

    I can see both sides of this: I want the people affected to get quick justice (and compensation...), but am also concerned about some form of legal precedent being set.

    But IANAL, and it's probably best to let lawyers and politicians worry about precedents, and get the wrongly convicted the justice they deserve ASAP.

    On another note, however: where else might this have been going on? If the system was so flawed in the PO's case, should we also be looking elsewhere for similar misdeeds? The postmasters eventually got traction because they were 'ordinary' and sympathetic; what happens when similar systematic injustices happen to those who are less sympathetic? How can we guard against them?
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,547
    BTW, when testifying before courts, tribunals, etc., are Brits still required to give a lip-smacking kiss to a spittal-befouled copy of the Bible?
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,293
    edited January 11
    also FPT...

    But much of it is boring, very boring. That's just the way when you need to have professionals meticulously sorting out what happened by interrogating witnesses who are often far from willing to help.

    I had hoped we would see a different approach from the Post Office following the extraordinary developments during the Inquiry's recess, but if today's specimen is anything to go by we are going to see more of the dishonesty and prevarication that was so characteristic of the proceedings last year.

    Whilst I welcome the recent rapid moves by the government to aid the SPMs, one thing it could have done at zero expense which would have helped a lot would have been to tell the PO, which it owns, to start assisting the Inquiry to the full.

    No sign yet that this has been done.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,911

    isam said:

    Four quick clips of Sir Keir here

    Three from the last year or two, boasting of being the DPP in charge of ALL prosecutions across England & Wales then another, from today, laughing at the idea he could have been expected to know about every prosecution in England & Wales

    https://x.com/timmyvoe240886/status/1745502690472329592?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    That Timmy Voe fella seems to be more obsessed about Starmer than either you or BJO, didn't think that was possible.
    He does seem to have a special interest in his career. Provides a useful service, those videos nail Sir Keir’s shiftiness perfectly
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    I'm convinced by Isam and BJO that SKS is responsible for anthropogenic climate change and Hamas. Stone him!
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,578
    isam said:

    Four quick clips of Sir Keir here

    Three from the last year or two, boasting of being the DPP in charge of ALL prosecutions across England & Wales then another, from today, laughing at the idea he could have been expected to know about every prosecution in England & Wales

    https://x.com/timmyvoe240886/status/1745502690472329592?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    That makes perfect sense. When I am on call I am in charge of every patient in my speciality that is an inpatient, an Emergency Dept attendance or even anyone that any of the team gives phone advice about.

    That doesn't mean that I know everything about every case, as there is a large team involved with their care, and I only expect the team to discuss with me stuff requiring my input or advice.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,183

    also FPT...

    But much of it is boring, very boring. That's just the way when you need to have professionals meticulously sorting out what happened by interrogating witnesses who are often far from willing to help.

    I had hoped we would see a different approach from the Post Office following the extraordinary developments during the Inquiry's recess, but if today's specimen is anything to go by we are going to see more of the dishonesty and prevarication that was so characteristic of the proceedings last year.

    Whilst I welcome the recent rapid moves by the government to aid the SPMs, one thing it could have done at zero expense which would have helped a lot would have been to tell the PO, which it owns, to start assisting the Inquiry to the full.

    No sign yet that this has been done.

    Was Ms Badenoch in Parliament yesterday when the Prime Minister made a significant announcement about a miscarriage of justice caused by a company falling within her department's remit?
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    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    edited January 11
    DougSeal said:

    I'm convinced by Isam and BJO that SKS is responsible for anthropogenic climate change and Hamas. Stone him!

    There are a lot of similar jokes from his supporters on X, ( obv not about myself or BJO). I assume they are to kind of avoid dealing with his shift in emphasis of what he was responsible for as DPP.

    As I said earlier, I expect the result of this is he will no longer trot out then ”When I was DPP” line at every given opportunity. It would have been useful in the debates, it does make him sound powerful and tough, but now people will think of those innocent postmasters being jailed rather than the big shots Sir Keir liked to boast about
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,319
    A
    DougSeal said:

    I'm convinced by Isam and BJO that SKS is responsible for anthropogenic climate change and Hamas. Stone him!

    He’s a witch.

    At least I think he is.

    Anyone got a duck and a really large set of scales?
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    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Four quick clips of Sir Keir here

    Three from the last year or two, boasting of being the DPP in charge of ALL prosecutions across England & Wales then another, from today, laughing at the idea he could have been expected to know about every prosecution in England & Wales

    https://x.com/timmyvoe240886/status/1745502690472329592?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    That makes perfect sense. When I am on call I am in charge of every patient in my speciality that is an inpatient, an Emergency Dept attendance or even anyone that any of the team gives phone advice about.

    That doesn't mean that I know everything about every case, as there is a large team involved with their care, and I only expect the team to discuss with me stuff requiring my input or advice.
    Who's held responsible if one of your team had an issue that required your input or advice and they didn't bring it to your attention?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,319

    also FPT...

    But much of it is boring, very boring. That's just the way when you need to have professionals meticulously sorting out what happened by interrogating witnesses who are often far from willing to help.

    I had hoped we would see a different approach from the Post Office following the extraordinary developments during the Inquiry's recess, but if today's specimen is anything to go by we are going to see more of the dishonesty and prevarication that was so characteristic of the proceedings last year.

    Whilst I welcome the recent rapid moves by the government to aid the SPMs, one thing it could have done at zero expense which would have helped a lot would have been to tell the PO, which it owns, to start assisting the Inquiry to the full.

    No sign yet that this has been done.

    On your last point - you assume that the PO would obey an order from a Minister.
  • Options
    DougSeal said:

    I'm convinced by Isam and BJO that SKS is responsible for anthropogenic climate change and Hamas. Stone him!

    Worse than that, he toppled Boris Johnson (pbuh).
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    DougSeal said:

    I'm convinced by Isam and BJO that SKS is responsible for anthropogenic climate change and Hamas. Stone him!

    Where was SKS during the Whitechapel events of 1888?
  • Options
    This will take the focus away from the Post Office Scandal.

    The Times: UK Ministers believe the full cabinet meeting called tonight will be about a UK and US military strike against the Houthis in Yemen
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,310

    An excellent article. Thanks, Ms Free.

    I can see both sides of this: I want the people affected to get quick justice (and compensation...), but am also concerned about some form of legal precedent being set.

    But IANAL, and it's probably best to let lawyers and politicians worry about precedents, and get the wrongly convicted the justice they deserve ASAP.

    On another note, however: where else might this have been going on? If the system was so flawed in the PO's case, should we also be looking elsewhere for similar misdeeds? The postmasters eventually got traction because they were 'ordinary' and sympathetic; what happens when similar systematic injustices happen to those who are less sympathetic? How can we guard against them?

    Like the London riots and "exemplary sentences" perhaps? I think pb en masse applauded people being sent to Siberia for pinching bottled water.

    Like kiddy fiddlers? Rolf Harris may well have been at it but he was convicted even for one case where the prosecution could not place him in the same town as the victim.

    Terrorists? The Birmingham Six and Guildford Four wave hello (and even after they were cleared, there were rumours that one lot probably were guilty, like some SPMs now).
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,319

    DougSeal said:

    I'm convinced by Isam and BJO that SKS is responsible for anthropogenic climate change and Hamas. Stone him!

    Where was SKS during the Whitechapel events of 1888?
    Was SKS spotted at the Laird shipyard in 1869, disguised as a weighbridge operator?
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    I'm convinced by Isam and BJO that SKS is responsible for anthropogenic climate change and Hamas. Stone him!

    There are a lot of similar jokes from his supporters on X, ( obv not about myself or BJO). I assume they are to kind of avoid dealing with his shift in emphasis of what he was responsible for as DPP.

    As I said earlier, I expect the upshot of this is he will no longer trot out then ”When I was DPP” line at every given opportunity. It would have been useful in the debates, it does make him sound powerful and tough, but now people will think of those innocent postmasters being jailed rather than the big shots Sir Keir liked to boast about
    You suffer from SKS derangement syndrome but, as I pointed out yesterday, he never did so - as an easy search of Hansard shows. Your issue, dare I say it, is that a middle class oik not of the Tory elite might become PM. That realisation that you are not born to rule over us plebs infuriates you. Poor guy.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,253

    Anyone whoever criticised Cyclefree's pieces can get in the fucking sea, she is a secular saint for pointing and making sure we know so much about this scandal.

    Her next post will explain to (simpletons) like you why Ed Davey is hundreds down the list of people potentially culpable, with many of your Tory friends occupying the places above.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Four quick clips of Sir Keir here

    Three from the last year or two, boasting of being the DPP in charge of ALL prosecutions across England & Wales then another, from today, laughing at the idea he could have been expected to know about every prosecution in England & Wales

    https://x.com/timmyvoe240886/status/1745502690472329592?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    That makes perfect sense. When I am on call I am in charge of every patient in my speciality that is an inpatient, an Emergency Dept attendance or even anyone that any of the team gives phone advice about.

    That doesn't mean that I know everything about every case, as there is a large team involved with their care, and I only expect the team to discuss with me stuff requiring my input or advice.
    Haha!

    He didn’t say “when I was in the office I was responsible for…etc etc” he said he was responsible for EVERYTHING that went on during his time as DPP, and he had to carry the can for any mistakes made by his 8,000 staff in that time
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,441
    edited January 11

    FPT

    @FF43

    " I don't think this scandal is primarily a failure by any politician. "

    I agree, but it is primarily a failure by government. The failure is in its relationship with the businesses it owns and runs, a failure which is apparent in more than one sector.

    If that is addressed as a result of this scandal, the colossal cost might even have been worth it.

    I think it goes wider than government, though government is one component that is affected. It is the behaviour of institutions, and those in them. In the modern world it feels like we are divided into the little people and the “high-ups”, the governors and the governed. This isn’t quite so simplistic as a class system any more (though class can come into it, along with a host of other factors).

    There is definitely groupthink in those organisations, and a dangerous lack of intellectual curiosity and open-mindedness, which if left unchecked leads us to problems like this. For how long have we seen people scared to whistleblow or come forward to call out issues or concerns because the groupthink is so strong, that there is a fear of being ostracised or punished or laughed at or the spotlight focussed on them?

  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    Deleted. Bad mood.
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,547
    edited January 11
    Another possible Trump VP pick?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhJZI3VeTNI

    Addendum - A North Dakota lawmaker is removed from a committee after insulting police in a DUI stop

    BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) - A North Dakota lawmaker has been stripped of his committee assignment as calls have grown for him to resign after he blasted police with vulgar, homophobic, and anti-migrant language during a traffic stop in which he was arrested on a drunken driving charge.

    In a letter requested by The Associated Press, Republican House Majority Leader Mike Lefor on Tuesday notified Republican state Rep. Nico Rios, of Williston, that he has removed him from the Legislature’s interim Judiciary Committee, effective immediately. . . .

    Police body-camera footage requested by and provided to the AP shows Rios cursing an officer, repeatedly questioning his English accent, and using homophobic slurs and anti-migrant language. He also said he would call the North Dakota attorney general about the situation. He told the officers they would “regret picking on me because you don’t know who ... I am.” . . . .

    https://www.kfyrtv.com/2024/01/11/north-dakota-lawmaker-is-removed-committee-after-insulting-police-dui-stop/
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    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    I'm convinced by Isam and BJO that SKS is responsible for anthropogenic climate change and Hamas. Stone him!

    There are a lot of similar jokes from his supporters on X, ( obv not about myself or BJO). I assume they are to kind of avoid dealing with his shift in emphasis of what he was responsible for as DPP.

    As I said earlier, I expect the upshot of this is he will no longer trot out then ”When I was DPP” line at every given opportunity. It would have been useful in the debates, it does make him sound powerful and tough, but now people will think of those innocent postmasters being jailed rather than the big shots Sir Keir liked to boast about
    You suffer from SKS derangement syndrome but, as I pointed out yesterday, he never did so - as an easy search of Hansard shows. Your issue, dare I say it, is that a middle class oik not of the Tory elite might become PM. That realisation that you are not born to rule over us plebs infuriates you. Poor guy.
    It’s almost impossible to be as wide of the mark as you are there, I doff my cap to you
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    Anyone whoever criticised Cyclefree's pieces can get in the fucking sea, she is a secular saint for pointing and making sure we know so much about this scandal.

    Her next post will explain to (simpletons) like you why Ed Davey is hundreds down the list of people potentially culpable, with many of your Tory friends occupying the places above.
    I see you still haven't learned to read. This is what I wrote on Sunday.

    Whilst Davey should have displayed a bit more curiosity when dealing with this issue I do have a smidgen of sympathy with him, the real ire should be aimed at those at the Post Office and their confederates who knew the Horizon system was producing hugely incorrect figures but kept quiet and continued on with the prosecutions.

    BTW is OGH a Tory for wanting Davey to be replaced by Daisy Cooper?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,319

    An excellent article. Thanks, Ms Free.

    I can see both sides of this: I want the people affected to get quick justice (and compensation...), but am also concerned about some form of legal precedent being set.

    But IANAL, and it's probably best to let lawyers and politicians worry about precedents, and get the wrongly convicted the justice they deserve ASAP.

    On another note, however: where else might this have been going on? If the system was so flawed in the PO's case, should we also be looking elsewhere for similar misdeeds? The postmasters eventually got traction because they were 'ordinary' and sympathetic; what happens when similar systematic injustices happen to those who are less sympathetic? How can we guard against them?

    Hell, the Computer = Truth ruling is still in force.

    So the *same* thing could happen again
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,530

    Another possible Trump VP pick?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhJZI3VeTNI

    Why does the arresting officer sound British (or maybe Australian)?
  • Options

    This will take the focus away from the Post Office Scandal.

    The Times: UK Ministers believe the full cabinet meeting called tonight will be about a UK and US military strike against the Houthis in Yemen

    About time.

    The Houthis, like Hamas, should be wiped out unless they surrender and stop fighting unconditionally.

    They're risking a worldwide depression if they don't stop attacking such a vital shipping lane.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,117
    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Four quick clips of Sir Keir here

    Three from the last year or two, boasting of being the DPP in charge of ALL prosecutions across England & Wales then another, from today, laughing at the idea he could have been expected to know about every prosecution in England & Wales

    https://x.com/timmyvoe240886/status/1745502690472329592?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    That makes perfect sense. When I am on call I am in charge of every patient in my speciality that is an inpatient, an Emergency Dept attendance or even anyone that any of the team gives phone advice about.

    That doesn't mean that I know everything about every case, as there is a large team involved with their care, and I only expect the team to discuss with me stuff requiring my input or advice.
    Haha!

    He didn’t say “when I was in the office I was responsible for…etc etc” he said he was responsible for EVERYTHING that went on during his time as DPP, and he had to carry the can for any mistakes made by his 8,000 staff in that time
    Tell us when you can find evidence that anyone in the DPP's office made any mistakes whatsoever in relation to any of these prosecutions.

    And whether you can do that or not, get help from a mental health professional.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    Chris said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Four quick clips of Sir Keir here

    Three from the last year or two, boasting of being the DPP in charge of ALL prosecutions across England & Wales then another, from today, laughing at the idea he could have been expected to know about every prosecution in England & Wales

    https://x.com/timmyvoe240886/status/1745502690472329592?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    That makes perfect sense. When I am on call I am in charge of every patient in my speciality that is an inpatient, an Emergency Dept attendance or even anyone that any of the team gives phone advice about.

    That doesn't mean that I know everything about every case, as there is a large team involved with their care, and I only expect the team to discuss with me stuff requiring my input or advice.
    Haha!

    He didn’t say “when I was in the office I was responsible for…etc etc” he said he was responsible for EVERYTHING that went on during his time as DPP, and he had to carry the can for any mistakes made by his 8,000 staff in that time
    Tell us when you can find evidence that anyone in the DPP's office made any mistakes whatsoever in relation to any of these prosecutions.

    And whether you can do that or not, get help from a mental health professional.
    Ha that’s the Chris I remember. Don’t go changing
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,253

    IanB2 said:

    Anyone whoever criticised Cyclefree's pieces can get in the fucking sea, she is a secular saint for pointing and making sure we know so much about this scandal.

    Her next post will explain to (simpletons) like you why Ed Davey is hundreds down the list of people potentially culpable, with many of your Tory friends occupying the places above.
    I see you still haven't learned to read. This is what I wrote on Sunday.

    Whilst Davey should have displayed a bit more curiosity when dealing with this issue I do have a smidgen of sympathy with him, the real ire should be aimed at those at the Post Office and their confederates who knew the Horizon system was producing hugely incorrect figures but kept quiet and continued on with the prosecutions.

    BTW is OGH a Tory for wanting Davey to be replaced by Daisy Cooper?
    You jumped immediately onto the Tory/Daily Mail orchestrated smear campaign, whilst Bates, Arbuthnot, and even Sunak at PMQs, had enough shame to decline. Go look in the mirror.
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Anyone whoever criticised Cyclefree's pieces can get in the fucking sea, she is a secular saint for pointing and making sure we know so much about this scandal.

    Her next post will explain to (simpletons) like you why Ed Davey is hundreds down the list of people potentially culpable, with many of your Tory friends occupying the places above.
    I see you still haven't learned to read. This is what I wrote on Sunday.

    Whilst Davey should have displayed a bit more curiosity when dealing with this issue I do have a smidgen of sympathy with him, the real ire should be aimed at those at the Post Office and their confederates who knew the Horizon system was producing hugely incorrect figures but kept quiet and continued on with the prosecutions.

    BTW is OGH a Tory for wanting Davey to be replaced by Daisy Cooper?
    You jumped immediately onto the Tory/Daily Mail orchestrated smear campaign, whilst Bates, Arbuthnot, and even Sunak at PMQs, had enough shame to decline. Go look in the mirror.
    Political Betting discussed a political betting story.

    Do you complain about water being wet?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    IanB2 said:

    Anyone whoever criticised Cyclefree's pieces can get in the fucking sea, she is a secular saint for pointing and making sure we know so much about this scandal.

    Her next post will explain to (simpletons) like you why Ed Davey is hundreds down the list of people potentially culpable, with many of your Tory friends occupying the places above.
    Don't pick on Ed! He's my best friend!!
  • Options

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Anyone whoever criticised Cyclefree's pieces can get in the fucking sea, she is a secular saint for pointing and making sure we know so much about this scandal.

    Her next post will explain to (simpletons) like you why Ed Davey is hundreds down the list of people potentially culpable, with many of your Tory friends occupying the places above.
    I see you still haven't learned to read. This is what I wrote on Sunday.

    Whilst Davey should have displayed a bit more curiosity when dealing with this issue I do have a smidgen of sympathy with him, the real ire should be aimed at those at the Post Office and their confederates who knew the Horizon system was producing hugely incorrect figures but kept quiet and continued on with the prosecutions.

    BTW is OGH a Tory for wanting Davey to be replaced by Daisy Cooper?
    You jumped immediately onto the Tory/Daily Mail orchestrated smear campaign, whilst Bates, Arbuthnot, and even Sunak at PMQs, had enough shame to decline. Go look in the mirror.
    Political Betting discussed a political betting story.

    Do you complain about water being wet?
    Given the UK's national past-time is complaining about the weather, I suspect we have all complained about the rain (water) being and making us wet.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,319

    IanB2 said:

    Anyone whoever criticised Cyclefree's pieces can get in the fucking sea, she is a secular saint for pointing and making sure we know so much about this scandal.

    Her next post will explain to (simpletons) like you why Ed Davey is hundreds down the list of people potentially culpable, with many of your Tory friends occupying the places above.
    I see you still haven't learned to read. This is what I wrote on Sunday.

    Whilst Davey should have displayed a bit more curiosity when dealing with this issue I do have a smidgen of sympathy with him, the real ire should be aimed at those at the Post Office and their confederates who knew the Horizon system was producing hugely incorrect figures but kept quiet and continued on with the prosecutions.

    BTW is OGH a Tory for wanting Davey to be replaced by Daisy Cooper?
    The real issue here is accountability. And assumption of good behaviour.

    Davey should have been right is assuming that the people working for him in the PO weren’t a gang of lying shits. But they were.

    So, we need to make being a lying shit really, really painful.

    So next time a Minister asks “Are you fucking up?”, the answer will be something in the same world as the truth.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,310
    Andy_JS said:

    Another possible Trump VP pick?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhJZI3VeTNI

    Why does the arresting officer sound British (or maybe Australian)?
    The voiceover says the cop is English.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302

    This will take the focus away from the Post Office Scandal.

    The Times: UK Ministers believe the full cabinet meeting called tonight will be about a UK and US military strike against the Houthis in Yemen

    I presume we're going to push some strongly worded leaflets out the door of a Wessex or something.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,547
    Andy_JS said:

    Another possible Trump VP pick?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhJZI3VeTNI

    Why does the arresting officer sound British (or maybe Australian)?
    Because Officer Welch was born and raised in England (like he said in the vid).

    So naturally the (alleged) drunk driver assumed he was homosexual!
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,409

    DougSeal said:

    I'm convinced by Isam and BJO that SKS is responsible for anthropogenic climate change and Hamas. Stone him!

    Where was SKS during the Whitechapel events of 1888?
    Not in Whitechapel, that's for sure.

    Here's the thing though.

    We have a fairly recent example of Britain getting a new Prone Minister and a section of the online community going full in on pointing out how unsuitable he was and how it will all end in tears.

    (The last part of that is nothing personal, by the way. As Enoch Powell pointed out, ending in tears is just how political careers end.)

    Net effect: at best, naff all. At worst, the accusations of derangement had a kernel of truth to them, especially as the complaints got louder as a response to being ignored.

    They were right in the end- Bozza's habitual lying and "one rule for them, no rule for me and my mates" tendency were bound to bring him down, it was always a question of when.

    But until enough people were ready to listen, it didn't matter. The time to hear what's wrong with Kier will probably come (unless he's smart enough to get out early), but at the moment, the public aren't particularly interested and don't want to be made interested.

    Them's the breaks.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,319

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Anyone whoever criticised Cyclefree's pieces can get in the fucking sea, she is a secular saint for pointing and making sure we know so much about this scandal.

    Her next post will explain to (simpletons) like you why Ed Davey is hundreds down the list of people potentially culpable, with many of your Tory friends occupying the places above.
    I see you still haven't learned to read. This is what I wrote on Sunday.

    Whilst Davey should have displayed a bit more curiosity when dealing with this issue I do have a smidgen of sympathy with him, the real ire should be aimed at those at the Post Office and their confederates who knew the Horizon system was producing hugely incorrect figures but kept quiet and continued on with the prosecutions.

    BTW is OGH a Tory for wanting Davey to be replaced by Daisy Cooper?
    You jumped immediately onto the Tory/Daily Mail orchestrated smear campaign, whilst Bates, Arbuthnot, and even Sunak at PMQs, had enough shame to decline. Go look in the mirror.
    Political Betting discussed a political betting story.

    Do you complain about water being wet?
    Water was lovely and dry. Until Brexit.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,911

    DougSeal said:

    I'm convinced by Isam and BJO that SKS is responsible for anthropogenic climate change and Hamas. Stone him!

    Where was SKS during the Whitechapel events of 1888?
    Not in Whitechapel, that's for sure.

    Here's the thing though.

    We have a fairly recent example of Britain getting a new Prone Minister and a section of the online community going full in on pointing out how unsuitable he was and how it will all end in tears.

    (The last part of that is nothing personal, by the way. As Enoch Powell pointed out, ending in tears is just how political careers end.)

    Net effect: at best, naff all. At worst, the accusations of derangement had a kernel of truth to them, especially as the complaints got louder as a response to being ignored.

    They were right in the end- Bozza's habitual lying and "one rule for them, no rule for me and my mates" tendency were bound to bring him down, it was always a question of when.

    But until enough people were ready to listen, it didn't matter. The time to hear what's wrong with Kier will probably come (unless he's smart enough to get out early), but at the moment, the public aren't particularly interested and don't want to be made interested.

    Them's the breaks.
    Should that mean that people with no political affiliations shouldn’t mention them on here?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,096

    DougSeal said:

    I'm convinced by Isam and BJO that SKS is responsible for anthropogenic climate change and Hamas. Stone him!

    Worse than that, he toppled Boris Johnson (pbuh).
    Boris Johnson toppled Boris Johnson.
  • Options
    Thanks again, Ms Free - or should it now be St Cyclefree of PB? - for another excellent thread header.

    Any sign yet of contrition from your legal colleagues....or even the illegal ones?
  • Options
    BREAKING:

    Rishi Sunak is holding a full cabinet call at 7.45 this evening

    Ministers believe it’s about UK and US military strikes against the Houthis in Yemen

    Move has been heavily telegraphed by Grant Shapps and by senior figures in the US. It is thought UK aircraft and Navy ships could take part

    There was a Cobra emergency meeting of senior ministers this morning followed by a meeting of the National Security Council.

    Sounds like things are moving quickly….


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1745511427903811772
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,253
    edited January 11

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Anyone whoever criticised Cyclefree's pieces can get in the fucking sea, she is a secular saint for pointing and making sure we know so much about this scandal.

    Her next post will explain to (simpletons) like you why Ed Davey is hundreds down the list of people potentially culpable, with many of your Tory friends occupying the places above.
    I see you still haven't learned to read. This is what I wrote on Sunday.

    Whilst Davey should have displayed a bit more curiosity when dealing with this issue I do have a smidgen of sympathy with him, the real ire should be aimed at those at the Post Office and their confederates who knew the Horizon system was producing hugely incorrect figures but kept quiet and continued on with the prosecutions.

    BTW is OGH a Tory for wanting Davey to be replaced by Daisy Cooper?
    You jumped immediately onto the Tory/Daily Mail orchestrated smear campaign, whilst Bates, Arbuthnot, and even Sunak at PMQs, had enough shame to decline. Go look in the mirror.
    Political Betting discussed a political betting story.

    Do you complain about water being wet?
    There isn’t a single reference to any political bet or any betting angle whatsoever, within your shameless smear of a lead.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.

    I just think the attacks are silly.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,358
    edited January 11

    DougSeal said:

    I'm convinced by Isam and BJO that SKS is responsible for anthropogenic climate change and Hamas. Stone him!

    Worse than that, he toppled Boris Johnson (pbuh).
    Boris Johnson toppled Boris Johnson.
    Oh I know, as another former Old Etonian I know observed last year

    'Boris Johnson is the third Tory Prime Minister in a row to be toppled by Boris Johnson.'

    They did like the irony of somebody else's sex scandal* toppling Boris Johnson.

    *Sexual assault to be precise.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,547
    Seattle Times - FAA will investigate Boeing’s role in Alaska Airlines fuselage blowout

    SSI - not sure this is really what you'd call news!

    FYI/BTW had morning coffee with an old Boeing retiree; that is, geezer who worked for the Lazy B for decades.

    He said that the entire bolt-screw setup for the rouge door/window assembly, was convoluted in a cockamamie way (also visa versa).

    That is, bad design for starters; problem waiting go from potential to catastrophic.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,797

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    2024 to 2029 is going to be fun on here - Will make the Brexit Wars look like a tea party! 😂
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,117

    IanB2 said:

    Anyone whoever criticised Cyclefree's pieces can get in the fucking sea, she is a secular saint for pointing and making sure we know so much about this scandal.

    Her next post will explain to (simpletons) like you why Ed Davey is hundreds down the list of people potentially culpable, with many of your Tory friends occupying the places above.
    I see you still haven't learned to read. This is what I wrote on Sunday.

    Whilst Davey should have displayed a bit more curiosity when dealing with this issue I do have a smidgen of sympathy with him, the real ire should be aimed at those at the Post Office and their confederates who knew the Horizon system was producing hugely incorrect figures but kept quiet and continued on with the prosecutions.

    BTW is OGH a Tory for wanting Davey to be replaced by Daisy Cooper?
    The real issue here is accountability. And assumption of good behaviour.

    Davey should have been right is assuming that the people working for him in the PO weren’t a gang of lying shits. But they were.

    So, we need to make being a lying shit really, really painful.

    So next time a Minister asks “Are you fucking up?”, the answer will be something in the same world as the truth.
    I recommend that every person on being appointed to an official position should have to view a specially commissioned video of Sarah Michelle Gellar saying "Don't tell lies. Because it's wrong!"

    That should solve the problem for good.
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Anyone whoever criticised Cyclefree's pieces can get in the fucking sea, she is a secular saint for pointing and making sure we know so much about this scandal.

    Her next post will explain to (simpletons) like you why Ed Davey is hundreds down the list of people potentially culpable, with many of your Tory friends occupying the places above.
    I see you still haven't learned to read. This is what I wrote on Sunday.

    Whilst Davey should have displayed a bit more curiosity when dealing with this issue I do have a smidgen of sympathy with him, the real ire should be aimed at those at the Post Office and their confederates who knew the Horizon system was producing hugely incorrect figures but kept quiet and continued on with the prosecutions.

    BTW is OGH a Tory for wanting Davey to be replaced by Daisy Cooper?
    You jumped immediately onto the Tory/Daily Mail orchestrated smear campaign, whilst Bates, Arbuthnot, and even Sunak at PMQs, had enough shame to decline. Go look in the mirror.
    Political Betting discussed a political betting story.

    Do you complain about water being wet?
    There isn’t a single reference to any political bet or any betting angle whatsoever, within your shameless smear of a lead.
    I know you struggle to read, but the piece contained tweets from Mark Pack refuting some of the allegations.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,409
    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    I'm convinced by Isam and BJO that SKS is responsible for anthropogenic climate change and Hamas. Stone him!

    Where was SKS during the Whitechapel events of 1888?
    Not in Whitechapel, that's for sure.

    Here's the thing though.

    We have a fairly recent example of Britain getting a new Prone Minister and a section of the online community going full in on pointing out how unsuitable he was and how it will all end in tears.

    (The last part of that is nothing personal, by the way. As Enoch Powell pointed out, ending in tears is just how political careers end.)

    Net effect: at best, naff all. At worst, the accusations of derangement had a kernel of truth to them, especially as the complaints got louder as a response to being ignored.

    They were right in the end- Bozza's habitual lying and "one rule for them, no rule for me and my mates" tendency were bound to bring him down, it was always a question of when.

    But until enough people were ready to listen, it didn't matter. The time to hear what's wrong with Kier will probably come (unless he's smart enough to get out early), but at the moment, the public aren't particularly interested and don't want to be made interested.

    Them's the breaks.
    Should that mean that people with no political affiliations shouldn’t mention them on here?
    Mention what you like, within the constraints the mod team have. That's not my department, after all.

    But don't be shocked if nobody's mind is changed, or if people start waving SKSDS banners.
  • Options
    GIN1138 said:

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    2024 to 2029 is going to be fun on here - Will make the Brexit Wars look like a tea party! 😂
    I rather suspect 2024-29 (or more likely 28) will be pretty boring.

    Like 1997 - 2001 Parliament.
  • Options

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.

    I just think the attacks are silly.
    The thing I am really waiting for is how Starmer eats a bacon sarnie.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,005

    This will take the focus away from the Post Office Scandal.

    The Times: UK Ministers believe the full cabinet meeting called tonight will be about a UK and US military strike against the Houthis in Yemen

    I presume we're going to push some strongly worded leaflets out the door of a Wessex or something.
    It’s a wee while since we used the Wessex. Perhaps Andrew could be sent on a redemptive suicide mission.

    Get up in a crate, Windsor, pop over Sanaa, don’t come back.
  • Options

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.

    I just think the attacks are silly.
    You get the feeling if Starmer could walk on water people would be denouncing him for not being able to swim.
  • Options

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.

    I just think the attacks are silly.
    The thing I am really waiting for is how Starmer eats a bacon sarnie.
    If he's smart its behind closed doors, with no cameras around.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,797

    GIN1138 said:

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    2024 to 2029 is going to be fun on here - Will make the Brexit Wars look like a tea party! 😂
    I rather suspect 2024-29 (or more likely 28) will be pretty boring.

    Like 1997 - 2001 Parliament.
    I'm thinking more 74-79
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,442
    edited January 11

    BREAKING:

    Rishi Sunak is holding a full cabinet call at 7.45 this evening

    Ministers believe it’s about UK and US military strikes against the Houthis in Yemen

    Move has been heavily telegraphed by Grant Shapps and by senior figures in the US. It is thought UK aircraft and Navy ships could take part

    There was a Cobra emergency meeting of senior ministers this morning followed by a meeting of the National Security Council.

    Sounds like things are moving quickly….


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1745511427903811772

    If the Saudis have tried and failed with our kit and 'advisors' what do we expect to happen?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,911

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.

    I just think the attacks are silly.
    The thing I am really waiting for is how Starmer eats a bacon sarnie.
    He’s a vegetarian!

    Who eats animals
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,530
    edited January 11

    Seattle Times - FAA will investigate Boeing’s role in Alaska Airlines fuselage blowout

    SSI - not sure this is really what you'd call news!

    FYI/BTW had morning coffee with an old Boeing retiree; that is, geezer who worked for the Lazy B for decades.

    He said that the entire bolt-screw setup for the rouge door/window assembly, was convoluted in a cockamamie way (also visa versa).

    That is, bad design for starters; problem waiting go from potential to catastrophic.

    Interesting. I tend to read about plane problems on this site, PPRune.

    https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/656760-alaska-airlines-737-900-max-loses-door-flight-out-pdx-37.html
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,409
    Chris said:

    IanB2 said:

    Anyone whoever criticised Cyclefree's pieces can get in the fucking sea, she is a secular saint for pointing and making sure we know so much about this scandal.

    Her next post will explain to (simpletons) like you why Ed Davey is hundreds down the list of people potentially culpable, with many of your Tory friends occupying the places above.
    I see you still haven't learned to read. This is what I wrote on Sunday.

    Whilst Davey should have displayed a bit more curiosity when dealing with this issue I do have a smidgen of sympathy with him, the real ire should be aimed at those at the Post Office and their confederates who knew the Horizon system was producing hugely incorrect figures but kept quiet and continued on with the prosecutions.

    BTW is OGH a Tory for wanting Davey to be replaced by Daisy Cooper?
    The real issue here is accountability. And assumption of good behaviour.

    Davey should have been right is assuming that the people working for him in the PO weren’t a gang of lying shits. But they were.

    So, we need to make being a lying shit really, really painful.

    So next time a Minister asks “Are you fucking up?”, the answer will be something in the same world as the truth.
    I recommend that every person on being appointed to an official position should have to view a specially commissioned video of Sarah Michelle Gellar saying "Don't tell lies. Because it's wrong!"

    That should solve the problem for good.
    And some laminated posters on the wall.

    (There's a serious question, though. How do we make it easy to fess up to f&£#ing up? At the moment, the punishment for fessing up is bad enough that covering up is often a reasonable punt. Aviation is famous for having got it right, at least until very recently, but ..)
  • Options

    BREAKING:

    Rishi Sunak is holding a full cabinet call at 7.45 this evening

    Ministers believe it’s about UK and US military strikes against the Houthis in Yemen

    Move has been heavily telegraphed by Grant Shapps and by senior figures in the US. It is thought UK aircraft and Navy ships could take part

    There was a Cobra emergency meeting of senior ministers this morning followed by a meeting of the National Security Council.

    Sounds like things are moving quickly….


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1745511427903811772

    If the Saudis have tried and failed with our kit and 'advisors' what do we expect to happen?
    Trident gets used.

    Just to remind/scare Leon.

    Threads began with a war in Iran.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,096

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.

    I just think the attacks are silly.
    The thing I am really waiting for is how Starmer eats a bacon sarnie.
    Nah. Those pledges.

    Carved in stone.
  • Options

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.

    I just think the attacks are silly.
    The thing I am really waiting for is how Starmer eats a bacon sarnie.
    Nah. Those pledges.

    Carved in stone.
    Oh God.
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,708
    edited January 11
    isam said:

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.

    I just think the attacks are silly.
    The thing I am really waiting for is how Starmer eats a bacon sarnie.
    He’s a vegetarian!
    That's it, I'm voting for Sunak.
    isam said:

    Who eats animals

    Oh, he might be OK then.
  • Options

    BREAKING:

    Rishi Sunak is holding a full cabinet call at 7.45 this evening

    Ministers believe it’s about UK and US military strikes against the Houthis in Yemen

    Move has been heavily telegraphed by Grant Shapps and by senior figures in the US. It is thought UK aircraft and Navy ships could take part

    There was a Cobra emergency meeting of senior ministers this morning followed by a meeting of the National Security Council.

    Sounds like things are moving quickly….


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1745511427903811772

    Does parliament need to give approval before we attack another sovereign state?
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,310
    Trio cleared of killing … then juror says she made a mistake
    Three men found not guilty of stabbing a man to death could face a retrial after the forewoman wrongly said the decision was unanimous

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trio-cleared-of-killing-then-juror-says-she-made-a-mistake-5w8gx35fn (£££)
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,310
    Brexit: New report suggests UK £311bn worse off by 2035 due to leaving EU
    The report came up with a scenario for growth if the UK had stayed inside the EU, and compared it to forecasts the Office for Budget Responsibility made in March last year.

    https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-new-report-suggests-uk-311bn-worse-off-by-2035-due-to-leaving-eu-13046256
  • Options

    BREAKING:

    Rishi Sunak is holding a full cabinet call at 7.45 this evening

    Ministers believe it’s about UK and US military strikes against the Houthis in Yemen

    Move has been heavily telegraphed by Grant Shapps and by senior figures in the US. It is thought UK aircraft and Navy ships could take part

    There was a Cobra emergency meeting of senior ministers this morning followed by a meeting of the National Security Council.

    Sounds like things are moving quickly….


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1745511427903811772

    Does parliament need to give approval before we attack another sovereign state?
    No.

    Though its increasingly been tradition to seek Parliamentary approval despite not needing it.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    edited January 11

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    I'm convinced by Isam and BJO that SKS is responsible for anthropogenic climate change and Hamas. Stone him!

    Where was SKS during the Whitechapel events of 1888?
    Not in Whitechapel, that's for sure.

    Here's the thing though.

    We have a fairly recent example of Britain getting a new Prone Minister and a section of the online community going full in on pointing out how unsuitable he was and how it will all end in tears.

    (The last part of that is nothing personal, by the way. As Enoch Powell pointed out, ending in tears is just how political careers end.)

    Net effect: at best, naff all. At worst, the accusations of derangement had a kernel of truth to them, especially as the complaints got louder as a response to being ignored.

    They were right in the end- Bozza's habitual lying and "one rule for them, no rule for me and my mates" tendency were bound to bring him down, it was always a question of when.

    But until enough people were ready to listen, it didn't matter. The time to hear what's wrong with Kier will probably come (unless he's smart enough to get out early), but at the moment, the public aren't particularly interested and don't want to be made interested.

    Them's the breaks.
    Should that mean that people with no political affiliations shouldn’t mention them on here?
    Mention what you like, within the constraints the mod team have. That's not my department, after all.

    But don't be shocked if nobody's mind is changed, or if people start waving SKSDS banners.
    The difference with BDS is that Boris’s supporters acknowledged his flaws but were prepared to suffer them to get what they wanted done politically.

    Sir Keir’s fans just think he doesn’t have any flaws, and that anyone noticing any is crackers. Some people are beginning to say ‘he’s dull and uncharismatic’ but when I said that four years ago not many people agreed

    For instance, he’s been saying for years how he got X, Y & Z put behind bars as DPP, and saying he takes full responsibility for all decisions made during his time there. Today he’s downplaying his role of DPP and not saying ‘I take full responsibility for all decisions made during my time there’. But notice this and it’s “You need mental help”!!

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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,293
    edited January 11
    Has anybody figured out yet who was responsible for showing the Government's approval of Ms Vennells' work at the PO by awarding her a gong and a place in the Cabinet Office?

    The PO Minister at the time was Kelly Tolhurst but I've not yet seen any indication that she played a part.
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,547
    At least the North Dakota Republican legislator who made a public ass of himself during his DUI arrest, is NOT (apparently) in same league as former South Dakota Republican Governor & US Rep Bill Janklow.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Janklow

    Took him killing a WHITE motorcyclist before he was brought to justice (sorta).
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    BREAKING:

    Rishi Sunak is holding a full cabinet call at 7.45 this evening

    Ministers believe it’s about UK and US military strikes against the Houthis in Yemen

    Move has been heavily telegraphed by Grant Shapps and by senior figures in the US. It is thought UK aircraft and Navy ships could take part

    There was a Cobra emergency meeting of senior ministers this morning followed by a meeting of the National Security Council.

    Sounds like things are moving quickly….


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1745511427903811772

    Does parliament need to give approval before we attack another sovereign state?
    No.

    Royal Prerogative.

    Votes on military action was another shitty legacy of Blair.
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    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    Anyone whoever criticised Cyclefree's pieces can get in the fucking sea, she is a secular saint for pointing and making sure we know so much about this scandal.

    On topic of this header, I don’t completely agree. I don’t agree with the need to rush now.

    I disagree because the fairest and final closure of this is not something i think should ever be rushed into. You have to have a large amount of trust in politicians to take what they first put on a table in front of you as being in your interest.

    I wouldn’t buy anything off Sunak’s government without a thorough search for inherent vice - there’s far too much evidence now to be as naive as that. So can we say today, we support the government plan, when it’s still unclear what years of convictions Sunak is limiting this to? Where’s the cut off? When we don’t know who gets compensation and who doesn’t, such as how all the victims of this scandal who were never actually convicted fit in to the scheme? When we don’t know who gets what compensation, or how fair it will be, based on how they suffered - how can someone whose already surrendered 80K only get 75K in compensation? The governments proposal is still a blank cheque in many regards, and for the opposition parties supporting it today and voting for it tomorrow, simply because PBers posting last night argued it’s for the oppositions own political self interest to keep quiet and go along with it this so close to an election, this would be a dereliction of duty that is always needed from His Majesty’s opposition, to question it, and challenge it, if necessary right up to dissolution of Parliament.

    Why the rush from here? There is more need for caution than a rush now politicians have got hold of this, in my honest opinion.

    We know we have an outgoing government, under pressure to save face this side of an election, who, when promising payments “by the end of the year” won’t be in power to deliver them. So we need to be cautious in this situation, where they won’t ever be held to account for failure to deliver on the plan of theirs, and incoming governments never “own” outgoing governments plans, just criticise them as making a mess of things.

    In the end game of this, Believing in each victims innocence has to be unequivocal, no ifs no buts left out there like is currently built into this scheme, and the compensation scheme has to be clear and fair - they may be a collection of individuals, but the blanket way the government is approaching this doesn’t consider the nature of individual suffering - that’s the bit to take time and care to get right and actually achieve.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,310

    BREAKING:

    Rishi Sunak is holding a full cabinet call at 7.45 this evening

    Ministers believe it’s about UK and US military strikes against the Houthis in Yemen

    Move has been heavily telegraphed by Grant Shapps and by senior figures in the US. It is thought UK aircraft and Navy ships could take part

    There was a Cobra emergency meeting of senior ministers this morning followed by a meeting of the National Security Council.

    Sounds like things are moving quickly….


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1745511427903811772

    Or it could also be the oil tanker Iran has just seized.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,117

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.

    I just think the attacks are silly.
    The thing I am really waiting for is how Starmer eats a bacon sarnie.
    He'd instantly be accused of anti-semitism.
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,547

    BREAKING:

    Rishi Sunak is holding a full cabinet call at 7.45 this evening

    Ministers believe it’s about UK and US military strikes against the Houthis in Yemen

    Move has been heavily telegraphed by Grant Shapps and by senior figures in the US. It is thought UK aircraft and Navy ships could take part

    There was a Cobra emergency meeting of senior ministers this morning followed by a meeting of the National Security Council.

    Sounds like things are moving quickly….


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1745511427903811772

    Does parliament need to give approval before we attack another sovereign state?
    Especially when such attack is motivated by political/electoral considerations?
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    GIN1138 said:

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    2024 to 2029 is going to be fun on here - Will make the Brexit Wars look like a tea party! 😂
    In the same way Boris's 2019 coalition dissolved quickly in all directions, we could find exactly the same for Starmer's 2024 one.
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,547
    Andy_JS said:

    Seattle Times - FAA will investigate Boeing’s role in Alaska Airlines fuselage blowout

    SSI - not sure this is really what you'd call news!

    FYI/BTW had morning coffee with an old Boeing retiree; that is, geezer who worked for the Lazy B for decades.

    He said that the entire bolt-screw setup for the rouge door/window assembly, was convoluted in a cockamamie way (also visa versa).

    That is, bad design for starters; problem waiting go from potential to catastrophic.

    Interesting. I tend to read about plane problems on this site, PPRune.

    https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/656760-alaska-airlines-737-900-max-loses-door-flight-out-pdx-37.html
    Best aeronautical reporting I know of, is by Dominic Gates for The Seattle Times

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominic_Gates
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    14th November? OK, but I'm on holiday for a week from 12th October.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,911
    edited January 11

    GIN1138 said:

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    2024 to 2029 is going to be fun on here - Will make the Brexit Wars look like a tea party! 😂
    In the same way Boris's 2019 coalition dissolved quickly in all directions, we could find exactly the same for Starmer's 2024 one.
    Isn’t his aim to just do the same things Boris was as PM but more competently? Doesn’t strike me as an obviously bad PM really

    He’s already done it once with Beergate! Or was it Currygate?
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302

    Brexit: New report suggests UK £311bn worse off by 2035 due to leaving EU
    The report came up with a scenario for growth if the UK had stayed inside the EU, and compared it to forecasts the Office for Budget Responsibility made in March last year.

    https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-new-report-suggests-uk-311bn-worse-off-by-2035-due-to-leaving-eu-13046256


    "The scenario which included the UK in the EU used an E3ME model, which is used transnationally for forecasting. It includes data from UN, OECD, World Bank, IMF, the ONS and Eurostat.
    "

    A bollocks model then.
This discussion has been closed.