Categories
Hobson’s Choice? The Subpostmaster issue – politicalbetting.com
Hobson’s Choice? The Subpostmaster issue – politicalbetting.com
The announcement of a law to overturn the subpostmasters’ convictions has provoked some concern amongst m’learned friends, on constitutional grounds. Are these valid? Why is the government in this position?
1
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Speaking on Political Currency, the podcast he hosts with the former Labour cabinet minister Ed Balls, Osborne said he had been told Sunak’s team were working towards the date in mid-November as the target for an election.
Sunak has said his “working assumption” is that he will hold the vote in the second half of the year, while Conservative sources say a final decision has not yet been taken over a date.
Osborne, who is close to many of those around Sunak, told the podcast: “A little birdie has told me that the various work programmes required to get ready for a general election have that date singled out – 14 November.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/11/general-election-likely-to-take-place-on-14-november-says-george-osborne?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Three from the last year or two, boasting of being the DPP in charge of ALL prosecutions across England & Wales then another, from today, laughing at the idea he could have been expected to know about every prosecution in England & Wales
https://x.com/timmyvoe240886/status/1745502690472329592?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
@Cyclefree - time to pitch a series to ITV?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ju10y6KBEI
On the griddle - Stephen Bradshaw, Post Office Investigator
Along the lines of "Brooklyn Nine-Nine"? (Which was homage to "Car 54 Where Are You?")
@FF43
" I don't think this scandal is primarily a failure by any politician. "
I agree, but it is primarily a failure by government. The failure is in its relationship with the businesses it owns and runs, a failure which is apparent in more than one sector.
If that is addressed as a result of this scandal, the colossal cost might even have been worth it.
I can see both sides of this: I want the people affected to get quick justice (and compensation...), but am also concerned about some form of legal precedent being set.
But IANAL, and it's probably best to let lawyers and politicians worry about precedents, and get the wrongly convicted the justice they deserve ASAP.
On another note, however: where else might this have been going on? If the system was so flawed in the PO's case, should we also be looking elsewhere for similar misdeeds? The postmasters eventually got traction because they were 'ordinary' and sympathetic; what happens when similar systematic injustices happen to those who are less sympathetic? How can we guard against them?
But much of it is boring, very boring. That's just the way when you need to have professionals meticulously sorting out what happened by interrogating witnesses who are often far from willing to help.
I had hoped we would see a different approach from the Post Office following the extraordinary developments during the Inquiry's recess, but if today's specimen is anything to go by we are going to see more of the dishonesty and prevarication that was so characteristic of the proceedings last year.
Whilst I welcome the recent rapid moves by the government to aid the SPMs, one thing it could have done at zero expense which would have helped a lot would have been to tell the PO, which it owns, to start assisting the Inquiry to the full.
No sign yet that this has been done.
That doesn't mean that I know everything about every case, as there is a large team involved with their care, and I only expect the team to discuss with me stuff requiring my input or advice.
As I said earlier, I expect the result of this is he will no longer trot out then ”When I was DPP” line at every given opportunity. It would have been useful in the debates, it does make him sound powerful and tough, but now people will think of those innocent postmasters being jailed rather than the big shots Sir Keir liked to boast about
At least I think he is.
Anyone got a duck and a really large set of scales?
The Times: UK Ministers believe the full cabinet meeting called tonight will be about a UK and US military strike against the Houthis in Yemen
Like kiddy fiddlers? Rolf Harris may well have been at it but he was convicted even for one case where the prosecution could not place him in the same town as the victim.
Terrorists? The Birmingham Six and Guildford Four wave hello (and even after they were cleared, there were rumours that one lot probably were guilty, like some SPMs now).
He didn’t say “when I was in the office I was responsible for…etc etc” he said he was responsible for EVERYTHING that went on during his time as DPP, and he had to carry the can for any mistakes made by his 8,000 staff in that time
There is definitely groupthink in those organisations, and a dangerous lack of intellectual curiosity and open-mindedness, which if left unchecked leads us to problems like this. For how long have we seen people scared to whistleblow or come forward to call out issues or concerns because the groupthink is so strong, that there is a fear of being ostracised or punished or laughed at or the spotlight focussed on them?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhJZI3VeTNI
Addendum - A North Dakota lawmaker is removed from a committee after insulting police in a DUI stop
BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) - A North Dakota lawmaker has been stripped of his committee assignment as calls have grown for him to resign after he blasted police with vulgar, homophobic, and anti-migrant language during a traffic stop in which he was arrested on a drunken driving charge.
In a letter requested by The Associated Press, Republican House Majority Leader Mike Lefor on Tuesday notified Republican state Rep. Nico Rios, of Williston, that he has removed him from the Legislature’s interim Judiciary Committee, effective immediately. . . .
Police body-camera footage requested by and provided to the AP shows Rios cursing an officer, repeatedly questioning his English accent, and using homophobic slurs and anti-migrant language. He also said he would call the North Dakota attorney general about the situation. He told the officers they would “regret picking on me because you don’t know who ... I am.” . . . .
https://www.kfyrtv.com/2024/01/11/north-dakota-lawmaker-is-removed-committee-after-insulting-police-dui-stop/
Whilst Davey should have displayed a bit more curiosity when dealing with this issue I do have a smidgen of sympathy with him, the real ire should be aimed at those at the Post Office and their confederates who knew the Horizon system was producing hugely incorrect figures but kept quiet and continued on with the prosecutions.
BTW is OGH a Tory for wanting Davey to be replaced by Daisy Cooper?
So the *same* thing could happen again
The Houthis, like Hamas, should be wiped out unless they surrender and stop fighting unconditionally.
They're risking a worldwide depression if they don't stop attacking such a vital shipping lane.
And whether you can do that or not, get help from a mental health professional.
Do you complain about water being wet?
Because he's their man.
Davey should have been right is assuming that the people working for him in the PO weren’t a gang of lying shits. But they were.
So, we need to make being a lying shit really, really painful.
So next time a Minister asks “Are you fucking up?”, the answer will be something in the same world as the truth.
So naturally the (alleged) drunk driver assumed he was homosexual!
Here's the thing though.
We have a fairly recent example of Britain getting a new Prone Minister and a section of the online community going full in on pointing out how unsuitable he was and how it will all end in tears.
(The last part of that is nothing personal, by the way. As Enoch Powell pointed out, ending in tears is just how political careers end.)
Net effect: at best, naff all. At worst, the accusations of derangement had a kernel of truth to them, especially as the complaints got louder as a response to being ignored.
They were right in the end- Bozza's habitual lying and "one rule for them, no rule for me and my mates" tendency were bound to bring him down, it was always a question of when.
But until enough people were ready to listen, it didn't matter. The time to hear what's wrong with Kier will probably come (unless he's smart enough to get out early), but at the moment, the public aren't particularly interested and don't want to be made interested.
Them's the breaks.
Any sign yet of contrition from your legal colleagues....or even the illegal ones?
Rishi Sunak is holding a full cabinet call at 7.45 this evening
Ministers believe it’s about UK and US military strikes against the Houthis in Yemen
Move has been heavily telegraphed by Grant Shapps and by senior figures in the US. It is thought UK aircraft and Navy ships could take part
There was a Cobra emergency meeting of senior ministers this morning followed by a meeting of the National Security Council.
Sounds like things are moving quickly….
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1745511427903811772
I just think the attacks are silly.
'Boris Johnson is the third Tory Prime Minister in a row to be toppled by Boris Johnson.'
They did like the irony of somebody else's sex scandal* toppling Boris Johnson.
*Sexual assault to be precise.
SSI - not sure this is really what you'd call news!
FYI/BTW had morning coffee with an old Boeing retiree; that is, geezer who worked for the Lazy B for decades.
He said that the entire bolt-screw setup for the rouge door/window assembly, was convoluted in a cockamamie way (also visa versa).
That is, bad design for starters; problem waiting go from potential to catastrophic.
That should solve the problem for good.
But don't be shocked if nobody's mind is changed, or if people start waving SKSDS banners.
Like 1997 - 2001 Parliament.
Get up in a crate, Windsor, pop over Sanaa, don’t come back.
Who eats animals
https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/656760-alaska-airlines-737-900-max-loses-door-flight-out-pdx-37.html
(There's a serious question, though. How do we make it easy to fess up to f&£#ing up? At the moment, the punishment for fessing up is bad enough that covering up is often a reasonable punt. Aviation is famous for having got it right, at least until very recently, but ..)
Just to remind/scare Leon.
Threads began with a war in Iran.
Carved in stone.
Three men found not guilty of stabbing a man to death could face a retrial after the forewoman wrongly said the decision was unanimous
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trio-cleared-of-killing-then-juror-says-she-made-a-mistake-5w8gx35fn (£££)
The report came up with a scenario for growth if the UK had stayed inside the EU, and compared it to forecasts the Office for Budget Responsibility made in March last year.
https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-new-report-suggests-uk-311bn-worse-off-by-2035-due-to-leaving-eu-13046256
Though its increasingly been tradition to seek Parliamentary approval despite not needing it.
Sir Keir’s fans just think he doesn’t have any flaws, and that anyone noticing any is crackers. Some people are beginning to say ‘he’s dull and uncharismatic’ but when I said that four years ago not many people agreed
For instance, he’s been saying for years how he got X, Y & Z put behind bars as DPP, and saying he takes full responsibility for all decisions made during his time there. Today he’s downplaying his role of DPP and not saying ‘I take full responsibility for all decisions made during my time there’. But notice this and it’s “You need mental help”!!
The PO Minister at the time was Kelly Tolhurst but I've not yet seen any indication that she played a part.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Janklow
Took him killing a WHITE motorcyclist before he was brought to justice (sorta).
Royal Prerogative.
Votes on military action was another shitty legacy of Blair.
I disagree because the fairest and final closure of this is not something i think should ever be rushed into. You have to have a large amount of trust in politicians to take what they first put on a table in front of you as being in your interest.
I wouldn’t buy anything off Sunak’s government without a thorough search for inherent vice - there’s far too much evidence now to be as naive as that. So can we say today, we support the government plan, when it’s still unclear what years of convictions Sunak is limiting this to? Where’s the cut off? When we don’t know who gets compensation and who doesn’t, such as how all the victims of this scandal who were never actually convicted fit in to the scheme? When we don’t know who gets what compensation, or how fair it will be, based on how they suffered - how can someone whose already surrendered 80K only get 75K in compensation? The governments proposal is still a blank cheque in many regards, and for the opposition parties supporting it today and voting for it tomorrow, simply because PBers posting last night argued it’s for the oppositions own political self interest to keep quiet and go along with it this so close to an election, this would be a dereliction of duty that is always needed from His Majesty’s opposition, to question it, and challenge it, if necessary right up to dissolution of Parliament.
Why the rush from here? There is more need for caution than a rush now politicians have got hold of this, in my honest opinion.
We know we have an outgoing government, under pressure to save face this side of an election, who, when promising payments “by the end of the year” won’t be in power to deliver them. So we need to be cautious in this situation, where they won’t ever be held to account for failure to deliver on the plan of theirs, and incoming governments never “own” outgoing governments plans, just criticise them as making a mess of things.
In the end game of this, Believing in each victims innocence has to be unequivocal, no ifs no buts left out there like is currently built into this scheme, and the compensation scheme has to be clear and fair - they may be a collection of individuals, but the blanket way the government is approaching this doesn’t consider the nature of individual suffering - that’s the bit to take time and care to get right and actually achieve.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominic_Gates
He’s already done it once with Beergate! Or was it Currygate?
"The scenario which included the UK in the EU used an E3ME model, which is used transnationally for forecasting. It includes data from UN, OECD, World Bank, IMF, the ONS and Eurostat."
A bollocks model then.