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Hobson’s Choice? The Subpostmaster issue – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124
    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Excerpt from impressive (in one sense) testimony of Stephen Bradshaw, Post Office Investigator

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbCZAXLwTgw

    Sorry is such a difficult word...

    In all seriousness, that was quite something.
    If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
    That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.

    In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?

    In this case, a series of witnesses claim that Bradshaw lied to them, hounded them, and mistreated them. See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67941754
    This is what he wrote in his appraisal. Contrast with what he told the Inquiry today.



    Another one suffering from sloping shoulders syndrome.
    It's a very weird attitude that seems to have been shared by a lot of people who saw the wider implications of admitting that the system had problems, that if only they could keep up the pretence that it didn't, then everything would be ok.
    For them it was, for years at least. Anything for a quiet life, and always look for the easiest path.
    I think it’s a variation on those people who carry on a fraud with ever more improvised lies. It’s not a plan, it’s “keep on surviving until the next thing”.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,147
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Excerpt from impressive (in one sense) testimony of Stephen Bradshaw, Post Office Investigator

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbCZAXLwTgw

    He's been nowhere near the worst witness so far. He's just been unlucky to be the first one after all the publicity.
    Yes, newcomers to watching the Inquiry live should note that Paul Bradshaw is by no means the worst 'investigator' to testify. He was rather more aggressive and a little less stupid than most but otherwise fairly typical, especially in his lack of contrition.
    Less stupid ?
    Blimey.

    I haven’t listened before today. Earlier witnesses must have been hard to get coherent thoughts out of.
    Go back and watch Mr Singh…
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,125
    Larry has just gone into No 10 to be briefed on the military action.

    Seen live on BBC News as Pol ed was speaking.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    isam said:

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.

    I just think the attacks are silly.
    The PO attacks on Starmer are very silly, it makes all the posters look very immature and a bit too pointless in their postings. Starmer didn’t know about these cases, and do we know yet how horizon related they even are, so the only attack line is he should have kmown, which, yes, in the land of realism is just plain stupid. UNLESS of course the smoking gun is found that STARMER DID KNOW ABOUT THEM. that would be very different.

    However the Saville question, though still not all that damaging to Starmer overall, is more substantial, because Starmer knew about the file being closed - we take it 2nd hand that made him cross. But it wasn’t reopened.
    The PO attacks on Starmer have disabled one of his goto phrases. “I was DPP” no longer carries the idea of a upright lawman shooting down the baddies, but has ‘locking up postmaster’ connotations

    That was surely the point of it? He’s not going to racing over it, but he’s already less sure footed on his tenure as DPP
    This stuff is just so desperate.
    So you don't think SKS had any questions to answer then?
    He's answered the questions he needed to answer. Was he aware of any CPS PO prosecutions. No. Should he have been aware of every prosecution (circa 500,000 of them?) during his time as DDP? Again, no - simply not possible.
    He said 4 million cases apparently. I suppose isam will be here in a few microseconds to suggest the discrepancy in the numbers is suspicious.

    Though it seems a bit unfair if isam is going to suggest Keir Starmer should have been aware of 4 million things, when isam is obsessed by just one ...
    Somebody’s a Sir Keir fan ❤️
    You seriously looking us in the eyes and saying Starmer can’t use his CPS credentials anymore becuase this PO stuff has sullied all that?

    On PB everything gets kept, Isam, and mercilessly used against you. What might sound okay in the middle of a fuckmule can be credibility shedding posted to laugh at you in two years time. Take the example of Big G and Beergate 🫣. Actually beergate, out of PO, Saville, is the one of the three which actually hurt Starmer, because everyone in the village pub thought it a stretch to call that a working meeting, and what insane jumble of gathering rules were for workers was or wasn’t on that day was a complete blur to everyone in hindsight. But it was still not enough to really hurt Starmer.

    I suggest smarter thing you can attack him with - is he one of us?
    what’s his K for? Does everyone who holds the office automatically get a K, regardless if the CPS was utter shite under them or merely half shite? The likes of the PO head who handed hers back, people like crozier as well who’s friends at ITV ensured he was airbrushed out of the drama, they don’t just get gongs, they are on a roundabout of high paying jobs massive bonuses for the girls and boys, no matter what evil or utter dipsticks they actually are. This is where Starmer comes in, did he get his top job on merit, his K on merit, his statutory instrument pension on merit, or is he one of them not one of us - part of the unmeritocracy?

    Hint hint nudge nudge is better line of hollowing someone out, than attack lines just so dependant on a proper smoking gun, being the daft thing you and casino done last couple of days. The only harm has been to your own credibility.
    What credibility?
    I’ve given you loads of likes since you’ve been back! You were posting pithy posts with an original and thoughtful take on things, before you got lost down this rabbit hole of trying to change political history with PB posts.

    I think now what works on social media is like dressing yourself - stick to what’s always best for you, rather than going louder for attention.

    …says she whilst wearing a pink pig fleece onesie.
    I don’t know about that, I just post what I think, I always have.

    Had I not been banned at the time I’d have been worse than Big G about Currygate
    Like I said earlier, I think Currygate definitely hurt Starmer, not simply down to the constant attack line from Mail and Telegraph, and Big G, but because most people thought he was getting away with boozing in a bit of a grey area and so taking the piss out of us. The heat on Starmer was during a local election campaign, the polls closed to Tories within about 4 points, their closest point all that year because so much of the campaigning coverage was on the integrity of Starmer - and Labour, as they first said Ang wasn’t there, and then tried to say it was admin error as she was. I think if she was there you would easily remember that.

    But it still didn’t take enough piss out the voters to seriously hurt Starmer, which brings us to the salient point here, the voters feel Starmer has even less to answer on Saville and PO. So why do you want to be the one who cries wolf, not build your credibility for proper arguments?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,034

    When is the PO to be stripped of its 'police-like' powers to investigate and prosecute crimes?

    It seems highly archaic.

    It doesn’t have any special power to prosecute.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Not sure this has been covered yet:

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745539594987192383?t=i22lPT0OZv2yiXr6ohLodQ&s=19

    🌹Labour 42% (-)
    🌳Conservatives 27% (-1)
    🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1)
    🟣Reform UK 9% (+1)
    💚Greens 8% (+2)
    Labour lead of 15
    Field work 9/1-11/1

    Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.

    "People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745538792335839305?t=pZTzHMeXMFjPwcM2jelWBQ&s=19

    One thing I like of this pollster is how they break down by generation, and also try to squeeze the initial "Don't Knows" into a choice.

    Lab ahead with all age groups under 75, even boomers. If forced to choose then DKs break fairly evenly, but narrowly for Labour.

    Strewth.
    If don't knows are breaking for Labour (even slightly) then that's devastating.
    If the crossover age is 75+ then...well.
    Yeah, but, no. All the don’t knows breaking Tory might vote on the day, whilst all those favouring Labour stay at home, might not remotely be even split from each.

    Something has happened reasonably recently for large number of voters to decide conclusively against Tories. I think it might have been Conference Season. I think Radical Rishi Unleashed & The Great HS2 Surrender has gone down badly with voters. Conservative drift downward seems to stem from that week?
    Cancelling HS2 resonated across normal people, non political people recognised it for what it was, telling you all you needed to know about how important the north was to the Tories.
    But it was really all the years promising run down areas they could be levelled up and different than run down they’ve been for several generations that was the Tory lie - all Sunak done was go back to being honest and realistic about that. But yes, that conference hurt the Tory’s. And they want another walking dead conference just before the election?

    We don’t want to be a country that can’t build something like HS2 whilst our peers can, but we do have to look at how and why our peers can do it so much cheaper than us. And not be afraid to learn.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645

    Foxy said:

    Not sure this has been covered yet:

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745539594987192383?t=i22lPT0OZv2yiXr6ohLodQ&s=19

    🌹Labour 42% (-)
    🌳Conservatives 27% (-1)
    🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1)
    🟣Reform UK 9% (+1)
    💚Greens 8% (+2)
    Labour lead of 15
    Field work 9/1-11/1

    (More in Common)

    Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.

    "People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745538792335839305?t=pZTzHMeXMFjPwcM2jelWBQ&s=19

    One thing I like of this pollster is how they break down by generation, and also try to squeeze the initial "Don't Knows" into a choice.

    Lab ahead with all age groups under 75, even boomers. If forced to choose then DKs break fairly evenly, but narrowly for Labour.

    Broken, sleazy Tories and LibDems on the slide!
    And enough Green vote there as Reform vote for Toothpaste Tube Time.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 11

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    isam said:

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.

    I just think the attacks are silly.
    The PO attacks on Starmer are very silly, it makes all the posters look very immature and a bit too pointless in their postings. Starmer didn’t know about these cases, and do we know yet how horizon related they even are, so the only attack line is he should have kmown, which, yes, in the land of realism is just plain stupid. UNLESS of course the smoking gun is found that STARMER DID KNOW ABOUT THEM. that would be very different.

    However the Saville question, though still not all that damaging to Starmer overall, is more substantial, because Starmer knew about the file being closed - we take it 2nd hand that made him cross. But it wasn’t reopened.
    The PO attacks on Starmer have disabled one of his goto phrases. “I was DPP” no longer carries the idea of a upright lawman shooting down the baddies, but has ‘locking up postmaster’ connotations

    That was surely the point of it? He’s not going to racing over it, but he’s already less sure footed on his tenure as DPP
    This stuff is just so desperate.
    So you don't think SKS had any questions to answer then?
    He's answered the questions he needed to answer. Was he aware of any CPS PO prosecutions. No. Should he have been aware of every prosecution (circa 500,000 of them?) during his time as DDP? Again, no - simply not possible.
    He said 4 million cases apparently. I suppose isam will be here in a few microseconds to suggest the discrepancy in the numbers is suspicious.

    Though it seems a bit unfair if isam is going to suggest Keir Starmer should have been aware of 4 million things, when isam is obsessed by just one ...
    Somebody’s a Sir Keir fan ❤️
    You seriously looking us in the eyes and saying Starmer can’t use his CPS credentials anymore becuase this PO stuff has sullied all that?

    On PB everything gets kept, Isam, and mercilessly used against you. What might sound okay in the middle of a fuckmule can be credibility shedding posted to laugh at you in two years time. Take the example of Big G and Beergate 🫣. Actually beergate, out of PO, Saville, is the one of the three which actually hurt Starmer, because everyone in the village pub thought it a stretch to call that a working meeting, and what insane jumble of gathering rules were for workers was or wasn’t on that day was a complete blur to everyone in hindsight. But it was still not enough to really hurt Starmer.

    I suggest smarter thing you can attack him with - is he one of us?
    what’s his K for? Does everyone who holds the office automatically get a K, regardless if the CPS was utter shite under them or merely half shite? The likes of the PO head who handed hers back, people like crozier as well who’s friends at ITV ensured he was airbrushed out of the drama, they don’t just get gongs, they are on a roundabout of high paying jobs massive bonuses for the girls and boys, no matter what evil or utter dipsticks they actually are. This is where Starmer comes in, did he get his top job on merit, his K on merit, his statutory instrument pension on merit, or is he one of them not one of us - part of the unmeritocracy?

    Hint hint nudge nudge is better line of hollowing someone out, than attack lines just so dependant on a proper smoking gun, being the daft thing you and casino done last couple of days. The only harm has been to your own credibility.
    What credibility?
    I’ve given you loads of likes since you’ve been back! You were posting pithy posts with an original and thoughtful take on things, before you got lost down this rabbit hole of trying to change political history with PB posts.

    I think now what works on social media is like dressing yourself - stick to what’s always best for you, rather than going louder for attention.

    …says she whilst wearing a pink pig fleece onesie.
    I don’t know about that, I just post what I think, I always have.

    Had I not been banned at the time I’d have been worse than Big G about Currygate
    Like I said earlier, I think Currygate definitely hurt Starmer, not simply down to the constant attack line from Mail and Telegraph, and Big G, but because most people thought he was getting away with boozing in a bit of a grey area and so taking the piss out of us. The heat on Starmer was during a local election campaign, the polls closed to Tories within about 4 points, their closest point all that year because so much of the campaigning coverage was on the integrity of Starmer - and Labour, as they first said Ang wasn’t there, and then tried to say it was admin error as she was. I think if she was there you would easily remember that.

    But it still didn’t take enough piss out the voters to seriously hurt Starmer, which brings us to the salient point here, the voters feel Starmer has even less to answer on Saville and PO. So why do you want to be the one who cries wolf, not build your credibility for proper arguments?
    How he got away with it I don’t know. But he did.

    I think this will hamper his attempt to sell himself as the righteous prosecutor of sleaze & villainy. I don’t believe he let Savile off, that seems like internet crankery, I don’t believe he should have known about the PO scandal either, but it flies in the face of what he has said before if he doesn’t accept blame for any CPS errors, if there are any. He’s already changed his tune on it in the BBC interview, less boastful, not claiming credit for everything that happened.

    In any case I am resigned to the fact he will be PM, and he might be good at it. I won’t vote for him, but I’m not voting Tory either. This is a place to vent, I don’t mind if everyone thinks what I say is nonsense; I’m not a politician trying to get elected or an activist trying to swing votes


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,949

    When is the PO to be stripped of its 'police-like' powers to investigate and prosecute crimes?

    It seems highly archaic.

    Should private prosecutions be abolished altogether?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Has Sunak decided a bit of war might revive his fortunes?

    I really doubt that. I think the US is about take taction and diplomatically its useful for both countries for the UK to be involved.

    I also think not calling Parliament is as simple as it not being required and legacy of the Syria vote.

    But on that US-UK action, what's our prediction on division of resources committed, eg missiles? I'm thinking 95% US, 5% UK.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    isam said:

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.

    I just think the attacks are silly.
    The PO attacks on Starmer are very silly, it makes all the posters look very immature and a bit too pointless in their postings. Starmer didn’t know about these cases, and do we know yet how horizon related they even are, so the only attack line is he should have kmown, which, yes, in the land of realism is just plain stupid. UNLESS of course the smoking gun is found that STARMER DID KNOW ABOUT THEM. that would be very different.

    However the Saville question, though still not all that damaging to Starmer overall, is more substantial, because Starmer knew about the file being closed - we take it 2nd hand that made him cross. But it wasn’t reopened.
    The PO attacks on Starmer have disabled one of his goto phrases. “I was DPP” no longer carries the idea of a upright lawman shooting down the baddies, but has ‘locking up postmaster’ connotations

    That was surely the point of it? He’s not going to racing over it, but he’s already less sure footed on his tenure as DPP
    This stuff is just so desperate.
    So you don't think SKS had any questions to answer then?
    He's answered the questions he needed to answer. Was he aware of any CPS PO prosecutions. No. Should he have been aware of every prosecution (circa 500,000 of them?) during his time as DDP? Again, no - simply not possible.
    He said 4 million cases apparently. I suppose isam will be here in a few microseconds to suggest the discrepancy in the numbers is suspicious.

    Though it seems a bit unfair if isam is going to suggest Keir Starmer should have been aware of 4 million things, when isam is obsessed by just one ...
    Somebody’s a Sir Keir fan ❤️
    You seriously looking us in the eyes and saying Starmer can’t use his CPS credentials anymore becuase this PO stuff has sullied all that?

    On PB everything gets kept, Isam, and mercilessly used against you. What might sound okay in the middle of a fuckmule can be credibility shedding posted to laugh at you in two years time. Take the example of Big G and Beergate 🫣. Actually beergate, out of PO, Saville, is the one of the three which actually hurt Starmer, because everyone in the village pub thought it a stretch to call that a working meeting, and what insane jumble of gathering rules were for workers was or wasn’t on that day was a complete blur to everyone in hindsight. But it was still not enough to really hurt Starmer.

    I suggest smarter thing you can attack him with - is he one of us?
    what’s his K for? Does everyone who holds the office automatically get a K, regardless if the CPS was utter shite under them or merely half shite? The likes of the PO head who handed hers back, people like crozier as well who’s friends at ITV ensured he was airbrushed out of the drama, they don’t just get gongs, they are on a roundabout of high paying jobs massive bonuses for the girls and boys, no matter what evil or utter dipsticks they actually are. This is where Starmer comes in, did he get his top job on merit, his K on merit, his statutory instrument pension on merit, or is he one of them not one of us - part of the unmeritocracy?

    Hint hint nudge nudge is better line of hollowing someone out, than attack lines just so dependant on a proper smoking gun, being the daft thing you and casino done last couple of days. The only harm has been to your own credibility.
    What credibility?
    I’ve given you loads of likes since you’ve been back! You were posting pithy posts with an original and thoughtful take on things, before you got lost down this rabbit hole of trying to change political history with PB posts.

    I think now what works on social media is like dressing yourself - stick to what’s always best for you, rather than going louder for attention.

    …says she whilst wearing a pink pig fleece onesie.
    I don’t know about that, I just post what I think, I always have.

    Had I not been banned at the time I’d have been worse than Big G about Currygate
    Like I said earlier, I think Currygate definitely hurt Starmer, not simply down to the constant attack line from Mail and Telegraph, and Big G, but because most people thought he was getting away with boozing in a bit of a grey area and so taking the piss out of us. The heat on Starmer was during a local election campaign, the polls closed to Tories within about 4 points, their closest point all that year because so much of the campaigning coverage was on the integrity of Starmer - and Labour, as they first said Ang wasn’t there, and then tried to say it was admin error as she was. I think if she was there you would easily remember that.

    But it still didn’t take enough piss out the voters to seriously hurt Starmer, which brings us to the salient point here, the voters feel Starmer has even less to answer on Saville and PO. So why do you want to be the one who cries wolf, not build your credibility for proper arguments?
    What’s your view on Donkeygate?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    Completely different topic but this is quite something:

    https://x.com/fhublet/status/1745543521367421346?s=46
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Someone asked for a more recent Iowa poll. Here you are: "A poll released Thursday of Iowa voters found that, among Republicans, former president Donald Trump maintains a dominant lead in the days ahead of the caucuses. But it is the first to find former U.N. ambassador Nikki Haley opening up a clear lead over Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis.

    The Suffolk University poll of 500 likely caucus-goers finds 54 percent saying Trump is their first choice, followed by Haley at 20 percent, DeSantis at 13 percent and Vivek Ramaswamy at 6 percent."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/01/11/iowa-poll-nikki-haley-ron-desantis/

    Caveat: Polls of caucuses are -- hard as this may be to believe -- not always as accurate as one would wish.

    Plus some "likely caucus-goers" may be somewhat LESS likely to go a'caucusing, when temperature falls to -5 degrees Fahrenheit or below on Caucus Night.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    TimS said:

    Completely different topic but this is quite something:

    https://x.com/fhublet/status/1745543521367421346?s=46

    French centralization is not just about institutions.

    In the new French government the median distance from ministers' birth place to Paris is... 17 km


    Sometimes it feels like we don't notice how centralised or capital dominant we are because our closest big neighbour is much like us in many ways.

    How many of them went to French Eton?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124
    Andy_JS said:

    When is the PO to be stripped of its 'police-like' powers to investigate and prosecute crimes?

    It seems highly archaic.

    Should private prosecutions be abolished altogether?
    Given the Computer = Truth ruling, the CPS will prosecute just the same.

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited January 11
    Foxy said:

    Has Sunak decided a bit of war might revive his fortunes?

    Risky. Wars aren't popular for long.
    They're popular for longer than 9 months.

    Even when you screw them up they're popular for that long. Some nice polling data from Wikipedia on the Bay of Pigs debacle:

    "Only 3 percent of Americans supported military action in 1960.[217] According to Gallup, 72% of people had a negative view of Fidel Castro in 1960.[217] After the conflict, 61% of Americans approved of the action, while 15% disapproved and 24% were unsure. "

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion


    That said, I don't think that's what this is about. I think what's happening is someone is bombing civilian shipping passing through international waters. The ability of civilian ships to pass through international waters without people shooting things at them is the cornerstone of modern civilization.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,993
    kle4 said:

    Has Sunak decided a bit of war might revive his fortunes?

    I really doubt that. I think the US is about take taction and diplomatically its useful for both countries for the UK to be involved.

    I also think not calling Parliament is as simple as it not being required and legacy of the Syria vote.

    But on that US-UK action, what's our prediction on division of resources committed, eg missiles? I'm thinking 95% US, 5% UK.
    'Thoughts and prayers' will take up a large proportion of our help, I suspect. And really - that's the main thing,
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    By the way here is Sir Keir whilst DPP saying he carries “ultimate responsibility for all the decisions made in all of the hundreds of thousands of cases taken day in day out by the CPS”

    https://x.com/jamesefoster/status/1745541501663256687?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Today he is saying it would be ‘unreal’ to think he personally looked at every case. Sure, but would he still say he carried “ultimate responsibility for all decisions made” now though?

    https://x.com/bbcpolitics/status/1745474925190652034?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,473

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Not sure this has been covered yet:

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745539594987192383?t=i22lPT0OZv2yiXr6ohLodQ&s=19

    🌹Labour 42% (-)
    🌳Conservatives 27% (-1)
    🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1)
    🟣Reform UK 9% (+1)
    💚Greens 8% (+2)
    Labour lead of 15
    Field work 9/1-11/1

    Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.

    "People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745538792335839305?t=pZTzHMeXMFjPwcM2jelWBQ&s=19

    One thing I like of this pollster is how they break down by generation, and also try to squeeze the initial "Don't Knows" into a choice.

    Lab ahead with all age groups under 75, even boomers. If forced to choose then DKs break fairly evenly, but narrowly for Labour.

    Strewth.
    If don't knows are breaking for Labour (even slightly) then that's devastating.
    If the crossover age is 75+ then...well.
    Yeah, but, no. All the don’t knows breaking Tory might vote on the day, whilst all those favouring Labour stay at home, might not remotely be even split from each.

    Something has happened reasonably recently for large number of voters to decide conclusively against Tories. I think it might have been Conference Season. I think Radical Rishi Unleashed & The Great HS2 Surrender has gone down badly with voters. Conservative drift downward seems to stem from that week?
    It might just possibly be that they're a bunch of incompetent shysters?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,949
    Remember how Northants council went bankrupt a few years ago?

    Now this.

    https://twitter.com/NTelegraph/status/1745427177447792743

    "Northants Telegraph
    @NTelegraph

    North Northants Council have issued an alert to all staff banning all but essential spending as they are facing ‘unprecedented’ financial pressure."
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,993

    Foxy said:

    Despite inflation coming down, CoL by far the most important issue for most. Immigration drops to 4th place, displaced by climate.


    Perception of inflation seems to be very laggy. (Apparently there's polling/survey data showing this.) Part of it is that things you don't buy very often have also gone up, so for example if you only fly once every December you won't experience airline ticket inflation until December, even if the prices went up in January and stopped going up in June.
    I - for my sins - watch quite a few domestic UK youtube cookery channels. And they're very much still focussed on 'this was £1.20 last year and is now £2.00!'. Very little chit-chat about flights. Or nanny's. Or ski holidays.

    Oddly.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645
    edited January 11
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    isam said:

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.

    I just think the attacks are silly.
    The PO attacks on Starmer are very silly, it makes all the posters look very immature and a bit too pointless in their postings. Starmer didn’t know about these cases, and do we know yet how horizon related they even are, so the only attack line is he should have kmown, which, yes, in the land of realism is just plain stupid. UNLESS of course the smoking gun is found that STARMER DID KNOW ABOUT THEM. that would be very different.

    However the Saville question, though still not all that damaging to Starmer overall, is more substantial, because Starmer knew about the file being closed - we take it 2nd hand that made him cross. But it wasn’t reopened.
    The PO attacks on Starmer have disabled one of his goto phrases. “I was DPP” no longer carries the idea of a upright lawman shooting down the baddies, but has ‘locking up postmaster’ connotations

    That was surely the point of it? He’s not going to racing over it, but he’s already less sure footed on his tenure as DPP
    This stuff is just so desperate.
    So you don't think SKS had any questions to answer then?
    He's answered the questions he needed to answer. Was he aware of any CPS PO prosecutions. No. Should he have been aware of every prosecution (circa 500,000 of them?) during his time as DDP? Again, no - simply not possible.
    He said 4 million cases apparently. I suppose isam will be here in a few microseconds to suggest the discrepancy in the numbers is suspicious.

    Though it seems a bit unfair if isam is going to suggest Keir Starmer should have been aware of 4 million things, when isam is obsessed by just one ...
    Somebody’s a Sir Keir fan ❤️
    You seriously looking us in the eyes and saying Starmer can’t use his CPS credentials anymore becuase this PO stuff has sullied all that?

    On PB everything gets kept, Isam, and mercilessly used against you. What might sound okay in the middle of a fuckmule can be credibility shedding posted to laugh at you in two years time. Take the example of Big G and Beergate 🫣. Actually beergate, out of PO, Saville, is the one of the three which actually hurt Starmer, because everyone in the village pub thought it a stretch to call that a working meeting, and what insane jumble of gathering rules were for workers was or wasn’t on that day was a complete blur to everyone in hindsight. But it was still not enough to really hurt Starmer.

    I suggest smarter thing you can attack him with - is he one of us?
    what’s his K for? Does everyone who holds the office automatically get a K, regardless if the CPS was utter shite under them or merely half shite? The likes of the PO head who handed hers back, people like crozier as well who’s friends at ITV ensured he was airbrushed out of the drama, they don’t just get gongs, they are on a roundabout of high paying jobs massive bonuses for the girls and boys, no matter what evil or utter dipsticks they actually are. This is where Starmer comes in, did he get his top job on merit, his K on merit, his statutory instrument pension on merit, or is he one of them not one of us - part of the unmeritocracy?

    Hint hint nudge nudge is better line of hollowing someone out, than attack lines just so dependant on a proper smoking gun, being the daft thing you and casino done last couple of days. The only harm has been to your own credibility.
    What credibility?
    I’ve given you loads of likes since you’ve been back! You were posting pithy posts with an original and thoughtful take on things, before you got lost down this rabbit hole of trying to change political history with PB posts.

    I think now what works on social media is like dressing yourself - stick to what’s always best for you, rather than going louder for attention.

    …says she whilst wearing a pink pig fleece onesie.
    I don’t know about that, I just post what I think, I always have.

    Had I not been banned at the time I’d have been worse than Big G about Currygate
    Like I said earlier, I think Currygate definitely hurt Starmer, not simply down to the constant attack line from Mail and Telegraph, and Big G, but because most people thought he was getting away with boozing in a bit of a grey area and so taking the piss out of us. The heat on Starmer was during a local election campaign, the polls closed to Tories within about 4 points, their closest point all that year because so much of the campaigning coverage was on the integrity of Starmer - and Labour, as they first said Ang wasn’t there, and then tried to say it was admin error as she was. I think if she was there you would easily remember that.

    But it still didn’t take enough piss out the voters to seriously hurt Starmer, which brings us to the salient point here, the voters feel Starmer has even less to answer on Saville and PO. So why do you want to be the one who cries wolf, not build your credibility for proper arguments?
    How he got away with it I don’t know. But he did.

    I think this will hamper his attempt to sell himself as the righteous prosecutor of sleaze & villainy. I don’t believe he let Savile off, that seems like internet crankery, I don’t believe he should have known about the PO scandal either, but it flies in the face of what he has said before if he doesn’t accept blame for any CPS errors, if there are any. He’s already changed his tune on it in the BBC interview, less boastful, not claiming credit for everything that happened.

    In any case I am resigned to the fact he will be PM, and he might be good at it. I won’t vote for him, but I’m not voting Tory either. This is a place to vent, I don’t mind if everyone thinks what I say is nonsense; I’m not a politician trying to get elected or an activist trying to swing votes


    Of course, to lose anything at all requires bravery of a sort. Conservative supporters can embrace the truly best thing about living in a democracy - tired, lost your way and your credibility, you get to win by losing! As that means completely reinventing and re-energise yourself, while you chill and laugh watching Starmer and Reeves and Lamy and Ang and Cooper the wet lettuce leaf try to handle all these problems - there’s not a big hitter amongst them like Labour governments have had in the past. By the wonders of Democracy, this is actually the moment for Conservatives to start lightening up, not get grouchy. Popularity and political control always comes and goes, like comets round the sun - don’t just enjoy the busy days when you blaze across the sky, enjoy how important the quiet times are too for getting yourself ready for the comeback.

    Get the popcorn in, if Starmer fails to get a landslide majority from this polling position, for many that will be laugh out loud funny. 😆
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Andy_JS said:

    Remember how Northants council went bankrupt a few years ago?

    Now this.

    https://twitter.com/NTelegraph/status/1745427177447792743

    "Northants Telegraph
    @NTelegraph

    North Northants Council have issued an alert to all staff banning all but essential spending as they are facing ‘unprecedented’ financial pressure."

    Plenty more where that came from.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    isam said:

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.

    I just think the attacks are silly.
    The PO attacks on Starmer are very silly, it makes all the posters look very immature and a bit too pointless in their postings. Starmer didn’t know about these cases, and do we know yet how horizon related they even are, so the only attack line is he should have kmown, which, yes, in the land of realism is just plain stupid. UNLESS of course the smoking gun is found that STARMER DID KNOW ABOUT THEM. that would be very different.

    However the Saville question, though still not all that damaging to Starmer overall, is more substantial, because Starmer knew about the file being closed - we take it 2nd hand that made him cross. But it wasn’t reopened.
    The PO attacks on Starmer have disabled one of his goto phrases. “I was DPP” no longer carries the idea of a upright lawman shooting down the baddies, but has ‘locking up postmaster’ connotations

    That was surely the point of it? He’s not going to racing over it, but he’s already less sure footed on his tenure as DPP
    This stuff is just so desperate.
    So you don't think SKS had any questions to answer then?
    He's answered the questions he needed to answer. Was he aware of any CPS PO prosecutions. No. Should he have been aware of every prosecution (circa 500,000 of them?) during his time as DDP? Again, no - simply not possible.
    He said 4 million cases apparently. I suppose isam will be here in a few microseconds to suggest the discrepancy in the numbers is suspicious.

    Though it seems a bit unfair if isam is going to suggest Keir Starmer should have been aware of 4 million things, when isam is obsessed by just one ...
    Somebody’s a Sir Keir fan ❤️
    You seriously looking us in the eyes and saying Starmer can’t use his CPS credentials anymore becuase this PO stuff has sullied all that?

    On PB everything gets kept, Isam, and mercilessly used against you. What might sound okay in the middle of a fuckmule can be credibility shedding posted to laugh at you in two years time. Take the example of Big G and Beergate 🫣. Actually beergate, out of PO, Saville, is the one of the three which actually hurt Starmer, because everyone in the village pub thought it a stretch to call that a working meeting, and what insane jumble of gathering rules were for workers was or wasn’t on that day was a complete blur to everyone in hindsight. But it was still not enough to really hurt Starmer.

    I suggest smarter thing you can attack him with - is he one of us?
    what’s his K for? Does everyone who holds the office automatically get a K, regardless if the CPS was utter shite under them or merely half shite? The likes of the PO head who handed hers back, people like crozier as well who’s friends at ITV ensured he was airbrushed out of the drama, they don’t just get gongs, they are on a roundabout of high paying jobs massive bonuses for the girls and boys, no matter what evil or utter dipsticks they actually are. This is where Starmer comes in, did he get his top job on merit, his K on merit, his statutory instrument pension on merit, or is he one of them not one of us - part of the unmeritocracy?

    Hint hint nudge nudge is better line of hollowing someone out, than attack lines just so dependant on a proper smoking gun, being the daft thing you and casino done last couple of days. The only harm has been to your own credibility.
    What credibility?
    I’ve given you loads of likes since you’ve been back! You were posting pithy posts with an original and thoughtful take on things, before you got lost down this rabbit hole of trying to change political history with PB posts.

    I think now what works on social media is like dressing yourself - stick to what’s always best for you, rather than going louder for attention.

    …says she whilst wearing a pink pig fleece onesie.
    I don’t know about that, I just post what I think, I always have.

    Had I not been banned at the time I’d have been worse than Big G about Currygate
    Like I said earlier, I think Currygate definitely hurt Starmer, not simply down to the constant attack line from Mail and Telegraph, and Big G, but because most people thought he was getting away with boozing in a bit of a grey area and so taking the piss out of us. The heat on Starmer was during a local election campaign, the polls closed to Tories within about 4 points, their closest point all that year because so much of the campaigning coverage was on the integrity of Starmer - and Labour, as they first said Ang wasn’t there, and then tried to say it was admin error as she was. I think if she was there you would easily remember that.

    But it still didn’t take enough piss out the voters to seriously hurt Starmer, which brings us to the salient point here, the voters feel Starmer has even less to answer on Saville and PO. So why do you want to be the one who cries wolf, not build your credibility for proper arguments?
    What’s your view on Donkeygate?
    The locals real anger was with the building that went up without permission, not real problem with the right of the geezer to sell him the land.

    Next question.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Remember how Northants council went bankrupt a few years ago?

    Now this.

    https://twitter.com/NTelegraph/status/1745427177447792743

    "Northants Telegraph
    @NTelegraph

    North Northants Council have issued an alert to all staff banning all but essential spending as they are facing ‘unprecedented’ financial pressure."

    Plenty more where that came from.
    The scary bit will the second order impact on things like social care and safeguarding.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,059
    Andy_JS said:

    Remember how Northants council went bankrupt a few years ago?

    Now this.

    https://twitter.com/NTelegraph/status/1745427177447792743

    "Northants Telegraph
    @NTelegraph

    North Northants Council have issued an alert to all staff banning all but essential spending as they are facing ‘unprecedented’ financial pressure."

    Will the administration of the Wellingborough by election be classed as essential spending?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,059
    biggles said:

    Been out all day so only just catching up. The British and American governments are planning military action against Sir Keir Starmer for his disruption of shipping in the Red Sea - have I got that right?

    You forgot to add that Ed Davey didn’t shop him to the authorities.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,890
    isam said:

    By the way here is Sir Keir whilst DPP saying he carries “ultimate responsibility for all the decisions made in all of the hundreds of thousands of cases taken day in day out by the CPS”

    https://x.com/jamesefoster/status/1745541501663256687?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Today he is saying it would be ‘unreal’ to think he personally looked at every case. Sure, but would he still say he carried “ultimate responsibility for all decisions made” now though?

    https://x.com/bbcpolitics/status/1745474925190652034?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Has he gone yet?

    Ten more Isam-Starmer posts and he'll be out. No worries.

    I couldn't care less what happens to Starmer, but from your perspective why does Starmer still have to fall on his sword even if he wasn't aware of the 3 cases (as he has said) and the cases were legitimate anyway? Of course you were bellyaching that Johnson was wholly unaware of the fornication and vomit parties outside his bedroom window despite being the point at which the buck stopped.

    If Starmer has to go because he was unaware of every CPS case between 2008 and 2014, why do you believe Johnson should have stayed because all the scandals ON HIS WATCH were committed by other people? (Spoiler: they weren't)
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645
    Why has the Daily Star got an army of Sunak Clones?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 11

    isam said:

    By the way here is Sir Keir whilst DPP saying he carries “ultimate responsibility for all the decisions made in all of the hundreds of thousands of cases taken day in day out by the CPS”

    https://x.com/jamesefoster/status/1745541501663256687?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Today he is saying it would be ‘unreal’ to think he personally looked at every case. Sure, but would he still say he carried “ultimate responsibility for all decisions made” now though?

    https://x.com/bbcpolitics/status/1745474925190652034?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Has he gone yet?

    Ten more Isam-Starmer posts and he'll be out. No worries.

    I couldn't care less what happens to Starmer, but from your perspective why does Starmer still have to fall on his sword even if he wasn't aware of the 3 cases (as he has said) and the cases were legitimate anyway? Of course you were bellyaching that Johnson was wholly unaware of the fornication and vomit parties outside his bedroom window despite being the point at which the buck stopped.

    If Starmer has to go because he was unaware of every CPS case between 2008 and 2014, why do you believe Johnson should have stayed because all the scandals ON HIS WATCH were committed by other people? (Spoiler: they weren't)
    I don’t think he has to go. I never said that at all. What I’ve said, admittedly too many times for my own good, is that I think it damages an image he wants to portray, that’s all.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,949
    O/T

    Trivia question: which 80s song features the line: "I want to live like Cyd Charisse"?

    Answer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imRqNZm13PU
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,059

    isam said:

    By the way here is Sir Keir whilst DPP saying he carries “ultimate responsibility for all the decisions made in all of the hundreds of thousands of cases taken day in day out by the CPS”

    https://x.com/jamesefoster/status/1745541501663256687?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Today he is saying it would be ‘unreal’ to think he personally looked at every case. Sure, but would he still say he carried “ultimate responsibility for all decisions made” now though?

    https://x.com/bbcpolitics/status/1745474925190652034?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Has he gone yet?

    Ten more Isam-Starmer posts and he'll be out. No worries.

    I couldn't care less what happens to Starmer, but from your perspective why does Starmer still have to fall on his sword even if he wasn't aware of the 3 cases (as he has said) and the cases were legitimate anyway? Of course you were bellyaching that Johnson was wholly unaware of the fornication and vomit parties outside his bedroom window despite being the point at which the buck stopped.

    If Starmer has to go because he was unaware of every CPS case between 2008 and 2014, why do you believe Johnson should have stayed because all the scandals ON HIS WATCH were committed by other people? (Spoiler: they weren't)
    So, let me get this right. The guilty people in the Post Office scandal are:
    Keir Starmer
    Paula Vennels
    Keir Starmer
    Ed Davey
    Keir Starmer
    Horizon
    Keir Starmer
    Labour politicians
    Keir Starmer
    Lib Dem politicians
    Keir Starmer
    Lawyers
    Keir Starmer
    The innocent people are:
    Rishi Sunak
    Conservative Politicians
    Sub Postmasters
    Have I got that right?

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645
    How can the release/leak of the same UK Government legal advice be “Blow to Rishi as UK Government admits Rwanda still not safe” on front of the I - but “Blow to Rishi as European Judges could delay Rwanda flights till after the election” on the front of the Telegraph?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    biggles said:

    Been out all day so only just catching up. The British and American governments are planning military action against Sir Keir Starmer for his disruption of shipping in the Red Sea - have I got that right?

    I don’t want to panic unduly, but. Should we brace for global thermonuclear war?

    This evening on the next table at the Anchor and Hope was Matthew Broderick. (With his wife Sarah Jessica Parker and some thesps - they’re on at the Old Vic).

    My friend said “look, it’s Ferris Bueller”. I
    Thought: “Global thermonuclear war. The only winning move is not to play”. And sex in the city.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214

    How can the release/leak of the same UK Government legal advice be “Blow to Rishi as UK Government admits Rwanda still not safe” on front of the I - but “Blow to Rishi as European Judges could delay Rwanda flights till after the election” on the front of the Telegraph?

    Because it’s the Telegraph.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,345
    These forthcoming air launched strikes threaten to be the worst of all worlds. Neither high enough in intensity and length, potentially telegraphed way too obviously on its precise timing (even though these were coming). Worse, the Houthis can just pop off a welter of drones and surface to surface missiles within hours in an act of tongue sticking outery because the strikes will not put them on their arse.

    If you arent hitting 100+ targets of every type in this wave its probably short. The Houthi surface to surface capability is also extremely mobile so if you want to flatten it, you are going to have to be sitting in the air day and night waiting for them to drive up near the beach

    Nothing suggests anything near that level of effort is going to happen thus making it more likely that we'll get into a shit cycle.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198
    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Been out all day so only just catching up. The British and American governments are planning military action against Sir Keir Starmer for his disruption of shipping in the Red Sea - have I got that right?

    I don’t want to panic unduly, but. Should we brace for global thermonuclear war?

    This evening on the next table at the Anchor and Hope was Matthew Broderick. (With his wife Sarah Jessica Parker and some thesps - they’re on at the Old Vic).

    My friend said “look, it’s Ferris Bueller”. I
    Thought: “Global thermonuclear war. The only winning move is not to play”. And sex in the city.
    If there is to be global thermonuclear war, then please can it be before the weekend? Otherwise I have to clean and paint my deck.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Twitter row produced this comment. This guy knows something Sir Keir doesn’t seem to, namely the details of the three cases

    Of those 3 Starmer cases cited by the Telegraph. One was non Horizon related (it was actual physical theft of money) and the other two were actually prosecuted by the PO. The unarmed one was actually one of the convictions quashed by the Court of Appeal in 2019


    https://x.com/phillwatson1970/status/1745569041018655191?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    Trivia question: which 80s song features the line: "I want to live like Cyd Charisse"?

    Answer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imRqNZm13PU

    I want to be your property
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Been out all day so only just catching up. The British and American governments are planning military action against Sir Keir Starmer for his disruption of shipping in the Red Sea - have I got that right?

    I don’t want to panic unduly, but. Should we brace for global thermonuclear war?

    This evening on the next table at the Anchor and Hope was Matthew Broderick. (With his wife Sarah Jessica Parker and some thesps - they’re on at the Old Vic).

    My friend said “look, it’s Ferris Bueller”. I
    Thought: “Global thermonuclear war. The only winning move is not to play”. And sex in the city.
    Great pub, although I haven’t been there for years. Used to be the only decent grub around Waterloo.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    edited January 11
    biggles said:

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Been out all day so only just catching up. The British and American governments are planning military action against Sir Keir Starmer for his disruption of shipping in the Red Sea - have I got that right?

    I don’t want to panic unduly, but. Should we brace for global thermonuclear war?

    This evening on the next table at the Anchor and Hope was Matthew Broderick. (With his wife Sarah Jessica Parker and some thesps - they’re on at the Old Vic).

    My friend said “look, it’s Ferris Bueller”. I
    Thought: “Global thermonuclear war. The only winning move is not to play”. And sex in the city.
    If there is to be global thermonuclear war, then please can it be before the weekend? Otherwise I have to clean and paint my deck.
    The only winning move is to buy a Karcher pressure washer.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,724

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    isam said:

    It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.

    Because he's their man.

    Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.

    I just think the attacks are silly.
    The PO attacks on Starmer are very silly, it makes all the posters look very immature and a bit too pointless in their postings. Starmer didn’t know about these cases, and do we know yet how horizon related they even are, so the only attack line is he should have kmown, which, yes, in the land of realism is just plain stupid. UNLESS of course the smoking gun is found that STARMER DID KNOW ABOUT THEM. that would be very different.

    However the Saville question, though still not all that damaging to Starmer overall, is more substantial, because Starmer knew about the file being closed - we take it 2nd hand that made him cross. But it wasn’t reopened.
    The PO attacks on Starmer have disabled one of his goto phrases. “I was DPP” no longer carries the idea of a upright lawman shooting down the baddies, but has ‘locking up postmaster’ connotations

    That was surely the point of it? He’s not going to racing over it, but he’s already less sure footed on his tenure as DPP
    This stuff is just so desperate.
    So you don't think SKS had any questions to answer then?
    He's answered the questions he needed to answer. Was he aware of any CPS PO prosecutions. No. Should he have been aware of every prosecution (circa 500,000 of them?) during his time as DDP? Again, no - simply not possible.
    He said 4 million cases apparently. I suppose isam will be here in a few microseconds to suggest the discrepancy in the numbers is suspicious.

    Though it seems a bit unfair if isam is going to suggest Keir Starmer should have been aware of 4 million things, when isam is obsessed by just one ...
    Somebody’s a Sir Keir fan ❤️
    You seriously looking us in the eyes and saying Starmer can’t use his CPS credentials anymore becuase this PO stuff has sullied all that?

    On PB everything gets kept, Isam, and mercilessly used against you. What might sound okay in the middle of a fuckmule can be credibility shedding posted to laugh at you in two years time. Take the example of Big G and Beergate 🫣. Actually beergate, out of PO, Saville, is the one of the three which actually hurt Starmer, because everyone in the village pub thought it a stretch to call that a working meeting, and what insane jumble of gathering rules were for workers was or wasn’t on that day was a complete blur to everyone in hindsight. But it was still not enough to really hurt Starmer.

    I suggest smarter thing you can attack him with - is he one of us?
    what’s his K for? Does everyone who holds the office automatically get a K, regardless if the CPS was utter shite under them or merely half shite? The likes of the PO head who handed hers back, people like crozier as well who’s friends at ITV ensured he was airbrushed out of the drama, they don’t just get gongs, they are on a roundabout of high paying jobs massive bonuses for the girls and boys, no matter what evil or utter dipsticks they actually are. This is where Starmer comes in, did he get his top job on merit, his K on merit, his statutory instrument pension on merit, or is he one of them not one of us - part of the unmeritocracy?

    Hint hint nudge nudge is better line of hollowing someone out, than attack lines just so dependant on a proper smoking gun, being the daft thing you and casino done last couple of days. The only harm has been to your own credibility.
    What credibility?
    I’ve given you loads of likes since you’ve been back! You were posting pithy posts with an original and thoughtful take on things, before you got lost down this rabbit hole of trying to change political history with PB posts.

    I think now what works on social media is like dressing yourself - stick to what’s always best for you, rather than going louder for attention.

    …says she whilst wearing a pink pig fleece onesie.
    spiderman pointing at spiderman
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    edited January 11

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Been out all day so only just catching up. The British and American governments are planning military action against Sir Keir Starmer for his disruption of shipping in the Red Sea - have I got that right?

    I don’t want to panic unduly, but. Should we brace for global thermonuclear war?

    This evening on the next table at the Anchor and Hope was Matthew Broderick. (With his wife Sarah Jessica Parker and some thesps - they’re on at the Old Vic).

    My friend said “look, it’s Ferris Bueller”. I
    Thought: “Global thermonuclear war. The only winning move is not to play”. And sex in the city.
    Great pub, although I haven’t been there for years. Used to be the only decent grub around Waterloo.
    Still very good. It manages to feel a bit like a Paris bistrot or Lyon bouchon without trying too hard. People complain about the noise but it’s not that loud.

    Though there’s been Meson don Felipe just opposite for decades too and that’s a pretty decent and authentic tapas place.

    Oh and apparently Matthew and Sarah aren’t on at the Old Vic, they’re at the Savoy theatre. So they were venturing SOTR for dinner.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Is SKS behind Arsenal’s recent drop in form? I mean, they really have been quite shit recently. It’s not hard to put two and two together.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Been out all day so only just catching up. The British and American governments are planning military action against Sir Keir Starmer for his disruption of shipping in the Red Sea - have I got that right?

    I don’t want to panic unduly, but. Should we brace for global thermonuclear war?

    This evening on the next table at the Anchor and Hope was Matthew Broderick. (With his wife Sarah Jessica Parker and some thesps - they’re on at the Old Vic).

    My friend said “look, it’s Ferris Bueller”. I
    Thought: “Global thermonuclear war. The only winning move is not to play”. And sex in the city.
    Great pub, although I haven’t been there for years. Used to be the only decent grub around Waterloo.
    That place opened when I started working in Southwark, around 2001 I think. Never went there much, more of a Stage Door man
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Been out all day so only just catching up. The British and American governments are planning military action against Sir Keir Starmer for his disruption of shipping in the Red Sea - have I got that right?

    I don’t want to panic unduly, but. Should we brace for global thermonuclear war?

    This evening on the next table at the Anchor and Hope was Matthew Broderick. (With his wife Sarah Jessica Parker and some thesps - they’re on at the Old Vic).

    My friend said “look, it’s Ferris Bueller”. I
    Thought: “Global thermonuclear war. The only winning move is not to play”. And sex in the city.
    Great pub, although I haven’t been there for years. Used to be the only decent grub around Waterloo.
    Still very good. It manages to feel a bit like a Paris bistrot or Lyon bouchon without trying too hard. People complain about the noise but it’s not that loud.

    Though there’s been Meson don Felipe just opposite for decades too and that’s a pretty decent and authentic tapas place.

    Oh and apparently Matthew and Sarah aren’t on at the Old Vic, they’re at the Savoy theatre. So they were venturing SOTR for dinner.
    I dropped my phone down the toilet whilst on a date at Meson don Felipe! Little bloke playing guitar near the ceiling that night too.

    I used to really love that area. The Laughing Gravy went from being a bit of a rough and tumble restaurant to a bit of a foodie fav I think. The Baltic was nice for a date too
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    edited January 11
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Been out all day so only just catching up. The British and American governments are planning military action against Sir Keir Starmer for his disruption of shipping in the Red Sea - have I got that right?

    I don’t want to panic unduly, but. Should we brace for global thermonuclear war?

    This evening on the next table at the Anchor and Hope was Matthew Broderick. (With his wife Sarah Jessica Parker and some thesps - they’re on at the Old Vic).

    My friend said “look, it’s Ferris Bueller”. I
    Thought: “Global thermonuclear war. The only winning move is not to play”. And sex in the city.
    Great pub, although I haven’t been there for years. Used to be the only decent grub around Waterloo.
    Still very good. It manages to feel a bit like a Paris bistrot or Lyon bouchon without trying too hard. People complain about the noise but it’s not that loud.

    Though there’s been Meson don Felipe just opposite for decades too and that’s a pretty decent and authentic tapas place.

    Oh and apparently Matthew and Sarah aren’t on at the Old Vic, they’re at the Savoy theatre. So they were venturing SOTR for dinner.
    They are clearly ITK about the pisspoor standard of pubs in Covent Garden.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Is SKS behind Arsenal’s recent drop in form? I mean, they really have been quite shit recently. It’s not hard to put two and two together.

    I’m listening to a podcast about them right now - they haven’t been shit at all actually, according to the underlying metrics, just unlucky with variance
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    isam said:

    Is SKS behind Arsenal’s recent drop in form? I mean, they really have been quite shit recently. It’s not hard to put two and two together.

    I’m listening to a podcast about them right now - they haven’t been shit at all actually, according to the underlying metrics, just unlucky with variance
    I’m probably being overly harsh. I haven’t watched any of their recent games, just raised an eyebrow at the results.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    isam said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Been out all day so only just catching up. The British and American governments are planning military action against Sir Keir Starmer for his disruption of shipping in the Red Sea - have I got that right?

    I don’t want to panic unduly, but. Should we brace for global thermonuclear war?

    This evening on the next table at the Anchor and Hope was Matthew Broderick. (With his wife Sarah Jessica Parker and some thesps - they’re on at the Old Vic).

    My friend said “look, it’s Ferris Bueller”. I
    Thought: “Global thermonuclear war. The only winning move is not to play”. And sex in the city.
    Great pub, although I haven’t been there for years. Used to be the only decent grub around Waterloo.
    Still very good. It manages to feel a bit like a Paris bistrot or Lyon bouchon without trying too hard. People complain about the noise but it’s not that loud.

    Though there’s been Meson don Felipe just opposite for decades too and that’s a pretty decent and authentic tapas place.

    Oh and apparently Matthew and Sarah aren’t on at the Old Vic, they’re at the Savoy theatre. So they were venturing SOTR for dinner.
    I dropped my phone down the toilet whilst on a date at Meson don Felipe! Little bloke playing guitar near the ceiling that night too.

    I used to really love that area. The Laughing Gravy went from being a bit of a rough and tumble restaurant to a bit of a foodie fav I think. The Baltic was nice for a date too
    I agree it’s a great little area and a bit under the radar still. I used to work quite close too and spent much more time around there. I should go more often, it’s only half an hour on the bus.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Is SKS behind Arsenal’s recent drop in form? I mean, they really have been quite shit recently. It’s not hard to put two and two together.

    I’m listening to a podcast about them right now - they haven’t been shit at all actually, according to the underlying metrics, just unlucky with variance
    I’m probably being overly harsh. I haven’t watched any of their recent games, just raised an eyebrow at the results.
    They were shit against Fulham, but should have beaten West Ham & Liverpool comfortably. The finishing Gods have been mean
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198
    isam said:

    Is SKS behind Arsenal’s recent drop in form? I mean, they really have been quite shit recently. It’s not hard to put two and two together.

    I’m listening to a podcast about them right now - they haven’t been shit at all actually, according to the underlying metrics, just unlucky with variance
    This is where the football data folk and I part company. They haven’t scored enough and they haven’t won games.

    As my Dad used to often put it when his team played well but got nothing “we absolutely murdered them and lost 3-0, but in tomorrow’s paper we will have just lost 3-0”.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    TimS said:

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Been out all day so only just catching up. The British and American governments are planning military action against Sir Keir Starmer for his disruption of shipping in the Red Sea - have I got that right?

    I don’t want to panic unduly, but. Should we brace for global thermonuclear war?

    This evening on the next table at the Anchor and Hope was Matthew Broderick. (With his wife Sarah Jessica Parker and some thesps - they’re on at the Old Vic).

    My friend said “look, it’s Ferris Bueller”. I
    Thought: “Global thermonuclear war. The only winning move is not to play”. And sex in the city.
    Great pub, although I haven’t been there for years. Used to be the only decent grub around Waterloo.
    Still very good. It manages to feel a bit like a Paris bistrot or Lyon bouchon without trying too hard. People complain about the noise but it’s not that loud.

    Though there’s been Meson don Felipe just opposite for decades too and that’s a pretty decent and authentic tapas place.

    Oh and apparently Matthew and Sarah aren’t on at the Old Vic, they’re at the Savoy theatre. So they were venturing SOTR for dinner.
    I dropped my phone down the toilet whilst on a date at Meson don Felipe! Little bloke playing guitar near the ceiling that night too.

    I used to really love that area. The Laughing Gravy went from being a bit of a rough and tumble restaurant to a bit of a foodie fav I think. The Baltic was nice for a date too
    I agree it’s a great little area and a bit under the radar still. I used to work quite close too and spent much more time around there. I should go more often, it’s only half an hour on the bus.
    I miss it. I worked there for about nine years, and when I was on tinder, used to meet dates there a lot! A hidden gem of London. Was it The White Hart on that Dickensian Street opposite Waterloo? Nice little pub.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198
    edited January 12
    TimS said:

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Been out all day so only just catching up. The British and American governments are planning military action against Sir Keir Starmer for his disruption of shipping in the Red Sea - have I got that right?

    I don’t want to panic unduly, but. Should we brace for global thermonuclear war?

    This evening on the next table at the Anchor and Hope was Matthew Broderick. (With his wife Sarah Jessica Parker and some thesps - they’re on at the Old Vic).

    My friend said “look, it’s Ferris Bueller”. I
    Thought: “Global thermonuclear war. The only winning move is not to play”. And sex in the city.
    Great pub, although I haven’t been there for years. Used to be the only decent grub around Waterloo.
    Still very good. It manages to feel a bit like a Paris bistrot or Lyon bouchon without trying too hard. People complain about the noise but it’s not that loud.

    Though there’s been Meson don Felipe just opposite for decades too and that’s a pretty decent and authentic tapas place.

    Oh and apparently Matthew and Sarah aren’t on at the Old Vic, they’re at the Savoy theatre. So they were venturing SOTR for dinner.
    I dropped my phone down the toilet whilst on a date at Meson don Felipe! Little bloke playing guitar near the ceiling that night too.

    I used to really love that area. The Laughing Gravy went from being a bit of a rough and tumble restaurant to a bit of a foodie fav I think. The Baltic was nice for a date too
    I agree it’s a great little area and a bit under the radar still. I used to work quite close too and spent much more time around there. I should go more often, it’s only half an hour on the bus.
    Totally different end of the spectrum but Masters Super Fish, round the corner and on the Waterloo Rd is (or was) a good chippy, and they are very rare in London. Bizarrely it gets (or at least used to get) coach parties.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 12
    biggles said:

    isam said:

    Is SKS behind Arsenal’s recent drop in form? I mean, they really have been quite shit recently. It’s not hard to put two and two together.

    I’m listening to a podcast about them right now - they haven’t been shit at all actually, according to the underlying metrics, just unlucky with variance
    This is where the football data folk and I part company. They haven’t scored enough and they haven’t won games.

    As my Dad used to often put it when his team played well but got nothing “we absolutely murdered them and lost 3-0, but in tomorrow’s paper we will have just lost 3-0”.
    It’s a bit like a value loser in betting to be honest. Feels bad, but play that game 100 times and you’re in credit
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,038
    edited January 12
    Off topic: Some editor at the WaPo has read Tom Wolfe's "Radical Chic". (Everyone should.)

    They put Kara Voght's article on Rashida Tlaib (Congresswoman, Hamas) in the Style section. (I laughed out loud at that placement.)
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/power/2024/01/10/rashida-tlaib-palestine-israel/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,193

    When is the PO to be stripped of its 'police-like' powers to investigate and prosecute crimes?

    It seems highly archaic.

    The powers are general statute based ones to bring private prosecutions.

    There's a very strong argument to significantly curtail, and certainly to regulate, the ability of corporate bodies to set themselves up as both investigator and prosecutor on their own behalf.
    Large organisations can, as we've seen, use it to persecute innocent people with remarkably little oversight.

    The CPS does have powers to intervene in individual prosecutions, but does not appear to have any duty to do so, or even a duty to monitor them - and being resource constrained, like the rest of the criminal justice system, can't be expected to do either thing as it stands.

    Abolishing the power of private prosecution completely might well give rise to a different set of risks..
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Been out all day so only just catching up. The British and American governments are planning military action against Sir Keir Starmer for his disruption of shipping in the Red Sea - have I got that right?

    I don’t want to panic unduly, but. Should we brace for global thermonuclear war?

    This evening on the next table at the Anchor and Hope was Matthew Broderick. (With his wife Sarah Jessica Parker and some thesps - they’re on at the Old Vic).

    My friend said “look, it’s Ferris Bueller”. I
    Thought: “Global thermonuclear war. The only winning move is not to play”. And sex in the city.
    "Wouldn't you prefer a nice game of chess?"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,193
    isam said:

    Is SKS behind Arsenal’s recent drop in form? I mean, they really have been quite shit recently. It’s not hard to put two and two together.

    I’m listening to a podcast about them right now - they haven’t been shit at all actually, according to the underlying metrics, just unlucky with variance
    "We were unlucky with variance" would be a novel post match spin.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Is SKS behind Arsenal’s recent drop in form? I mean, they really have been quite shit recently. It’s not hard to put two and two together.

    I’m listening to a podcast about them right now - they haven’t been shit at all actually, according to the underlying metrics, just unlucky with variance
    "We were unlucky with variance" would be a novel post match spin.
    It is true so often though. In a low scoring sport, the result often doesn’t reflect a teams dominance.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,854
    edited January 12
    Twitter claims, with video, that the air strikes have started (and that a US ship was hit by a Houthi missile - less credible) but no reliable source yet.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198
    carnforth said:

    Twitter claims, with video, that the air strikes have started (and that a US ship was hit by a Houthi missile) but no reliable source yet.

    If the latter is true, and a single U.S. sailor so much as broke a nail, then this is about to get much bigger.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,722

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Been out all day so only just catching up. The British and American governments are planning military action against Sir Keir Starmer for his disruption of shipping in the Red Sea - have I got that right?

    I don’t want to panic unduly, but. Should we brace for global thermonuclear war?

    This evening on the next table at the Anchor and Hope was Matthew Broderick. (With his wife Sarah Jessica Parker and some thesps - they’re on at the Old Vic).

    My friend said “look, it’s Ferris Bueller”. I
    Thought: “Global thermonuclear war. The only winning move is not to play”. And sex in the city.
    "Wouldn't you prefer a nice game of chess?"
    ♙e4

    I see we've started launching stuff. How come it is just us and the Americans? It isn't as if it is just our trade going through there.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    biggles said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Been out all day so only just catching up. The British and American governments are planning military action against Sir Keir Starmer for his disruption of shipping in the Red Sea - have I got that right?

    I don’t want to panic unduly, but. Should we brace for global thermonuclear war?

    This evening on the next table at the Anchor and Hope was Matthew Broderick. (With his wife Sarah Jessica Parker and some thesps - they’re on at the Old Vic).

    My friend said “look, it’s Ferris Bueller”. I
    Thought: “Global thermonuclear war. The only winning move is not to play”. And sex in the city.
    Great pub, although I haven’t been there for years. Used to be the only decent grub around Waterloo.
    Still very good. It manages to feel a bit like a Paris bistrot or Lyon bouchon without trying too hard. People complain about the noise but it’s not that loud.

    Though there’s been Meson don Felipe just opposite for decades too and that’s a pretty decent and authentic tapas place.

    Oh and apparently Matthew and Sarah aren’t on at the Old Vic, they’re at the Savoy theatre. So they were venturing SOTR for dinner.
    I dropped my phone down the toilet whilst on a date at Meson don Felipe! Little bloke playing guitar near the ceiling that night too.

    I used to really love that area. The Laughing Gravy went from being a bit of a rough and tumble restaurant to a bit of a foodie fav I think. The Baltic was nice for a date too
    I agree it’s a great little area and a bit under the radar still. I used to work quite close too and spent much more time around there. I should go more often, it’s only half an hour on the bus.
    Totally different end of the spectrum but Masters Super Fish, round the corner and on the Waterloo Rd is (or was) a good chippy, and they are very rare in London. Bizarrely it gets (or at least used to get) coach parties.
    Fish & chips is, for 99.46% of Americans, about the only British culinary classic we'll ask for Over There.

    Certainly NOT eager to sample mushy peas, kidney pie, jellied eels, vegan haggis OR spotted dick (WTF??)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,286
    edited January 12
    biggles said:

    carnforth said:

    Twitter claims, with video, that the air strikes have started (and that a US ship was hit by a Houthi missile) but no reliable source yet.

    If the latter is true, and a single U.S. sailor so much as broke a nail, then this is about to get much bigger.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_U.S._bases_in_Iraq_and_Syria_(2023–present)

    Starting on 17 October 2023, Iran-backed militias initiated a coordinated series of more than 115 attacks on U.S. military bases and assets in Syria and Iraq. These attacks resulted in injuries to dozens of U.S. servicemembers
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198

    biggles said:

    carnforth said:

    Twitter claims, with video, that the air strikes have started (and that a US ship was hit by a Houthi missile) but no reliable source yet.

    If the latter is true, and a single U.S. sailor so much as broke a nail, then this is about to get much bigger.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_U.S._bases_in_Iraq_and_Syria_(2023–present)

    Starting on 17 October 2023, Iran-backed militias initiated a coordinated series of more than 115 attacks on U.S. military bases and assets in Syria and Iraq. These attacks resulted in injuries to dozens of U.S. servicemembers
    I cannot see any version of the next five years that doesn’t end with war with Iran.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,854
    CNN:

    The US and UK militaries launched strikes against multiple Houthi targets in Houthi-controlled areas of Yemen on Thursday, a US official and a UK official told CNN.

    The strikes were from fighter jets and Tomahawk missiles. More than a dozen Houthi targets were hit by missiles fired from air, surface, and sub platforms and were chosen for their ability to degrade the Houthis’ continued attacks on vessels in the Red Sea, a second US official told CNN.

    They included radar systems, drone storage and launch sites, ballistic missile storage and launch sites, and cruise missile storage and launch sites.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,722
    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    carnforth said:

    Twitter claims, with video, that the air strikes have started (and that a US ship was hit by a Houthi missile) but no reliable source yet.

    If the latter is true, and a single U.S. sailor so much as broke a nail, then this is about to get much bigger.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_U.S._bases_in_Iraq_and_Syria_(2023–present)

    Starting on 17 October 2023, Iran-backed militias initiated a coordinated series of more than 115 attacks on U.S. military bases and assets in Syria and Iraq. These attacks resulted in injuries to dozens of U.S. servicemembers
    I cannot see any version of the next five years that doesn’t end with war with Iran.
    Can't the CIA start a revolution or something?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645
    isam said:

    biggles said:

    isam said:

    Is SKS behind Arsenal’s recent drop in form? I mean, they really have been quite shit recently. It’s not hard to put two and two together.

    I’m listening to a podcast about them right now - they haven’t been shit at all actually, according to the underlying metrics, just unlucky with variance
    This is where the football data folk and I part company. They haven’t scored enough and they haven’t won games.

    As my Dad used to often put it when his team played well but got nothing “we absolutely murdered them and lost 3-0, but in tomorrow’s paper we will have just lost 3-0”.
    It’s a bit like a value loser in betting to be honest. Feels bad, but play that game 100 times and you’re in credit
    Though probably true, the fact sport works on confidence and self belief, on form everything is easy, a string of setbacks and anxiety and lack of confidence and belief prevents you playing as you want to. It becomes what is known in football as a slump.

    That’s not entirely Arsenals problem. Arsenals problem is Arteta, leading them up somewhere of a blind alley. He won’t sell academy products, or give youngsters a chance, instead he gives long contracts, plays them every game without rotation even though they are tired with carrying injuries. What makes Man City and Chelsea smarter is selling their academy products for pure profit and reinvesting. For example, if Arsenal sold Saka to PSG or Barcelona, they could get Vlahovic and Tomori for the money and be a much stronger side much closer to winning something.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,345
    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    carnforth said:

    Twitter claims, with video, that the air strikes have started (and that a US ship was hit by a Houthi missile) but no reliable source yet.

    If the latter is true, and a single U.S. sailor so much as broke a nail, then this is about to get much bigger.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_U.S._bases_in_Iraq_and_Syria_(2023–present)

    Starting on 17 October 2023, Iran-backed militias initiated a coordinated series of more than 115 attacks on U.S. military bases and assets in Syria and Iraq. These attacks resulted in injuries to dozens of U.S. servicemembers
    I cannot see any version of the next five years that doesn’t end with war with Iran.
    Iran really cant afford a heavy conflict and they know it
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,391
    Andy_JS said:

    When is the PO to be stripped of its 'police-like' powers to investigate and prosecute crimes?

    It seems highly archaic.

    Should private prosecutions be abolished altogether?
    No.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198
    carnforth said:
    Has Starmer surrendered to the US Navy yet, and agreed to repay the sub- post masters?
    Yokes said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    carnforth said:

    Twitter claims, with video, that the air strikes have started (and that a US ship was hit by a Houthi missile) but no reliable source yet.

    If the latter is true, and a single U.S. sailor so much as broke a nail, then this is about to get much bigger.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_U.S._bases_in_Iraq_and_Syria_(2023–present)

    Starting on 17 October 2023, Iran-backed militias initiated a coordinated series of more than 115 attacks on U.S. military bases and assets in Syria and Iraq. These attacks resulted in injuries to dozens of U.S. servicemembers
    I cannot see any version of the next five years that doesn’t end with war with Iran.
    Iran really cant afford a heavy conflict and they know it
    I agree, but they are very close to miscalculating. I am amazed they let their proxy do this much in the Red Sea, and there has to be a risk they real miscalculate in Iraq/Syria.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,345
    The Sky news coverage on this is awful. Just comes across as ignorant and witless as fuck, and thats their journalists.

    For the record, Hodeidah on the Yemen coast is a Houthi military hub for their Red Sea efforts. The Houthis knew it was going to get hit, some of their military were evacuating the city earlier this evening.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198
    Yokes said:

    The Sky news coverage on this is awful. Just comes across as ignorant and witless as fuck, and thats their journalists.

    For the record, Hodeidah on the Yemen coast is a Houthi military hub for their Red Sea efforts. The Houthis knew it was going to get hit, some of their military were evacuating the city earlier this evening.

    Did you see the bit where the idiot reporter started blathering on about possible civilian casualties before we know anything about the targets? Getting the propaganda started early for the Houthis.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,193
    Here's a clip of Trump claiming he would be a completely ineffective president if he didn't have immunity to commit crimes on his own behalf.

    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1745531306115490039
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,193

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    carnforth said:

    Twitter claims, with video, that the air strikes have started (and that a US ship was hit by a Houthi missile) but no reliable source yet.

    If the latter is true, and a single U.S. sailor so much as broke a nail, then this is about to get much bigger.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_U.S._bases_in_Iraq_and_Syria_(2023–present)

    Starting on 17 October 2023, Iran-backed militias initiated a coordinated series of more than 115 attacks on U.S. military bases and assets in Syria and Iraq. These attacks resulted in injuries to dozens of U.S. servicemembers
    I cannot see any version of the next five years that doesn’t end with war with Iran.
    Can't the CIA start a revolution or something?
    I think they might see it coming this time round .
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,345
    edited January 12
    biggles said:

    carnforth said:
    Has Starmer surrendered to the US Navy yet, and agreed to repay the sub- post masters?
    Yokes said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    carnforth said:

    Twitter claims, with video, that the air strikes have started (and that a US ship was hit by a Houthi missile) but no reliable source yet.

    If the latter is true, and a single U.S. sailor so much as broke a nail, then this is about to get much bigger.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_U.S._bases_in_Iraq_and_Syria_(2023–present)

    Starting on 17 October 2023, Iran-backed militias initiated a coordinated series of more than 115 attacks on U.S. military bases and assets in Syria and Iraq. These attacks resulted in injuries to dozens of U.S. servicemembers
    I cannot see any version of the next five years that doesn’t end with war with Iran.
    Iran really cant afford a heavy conflict and they know it
    I agree, but they are very close to miscalculating. I am amazed they let their proxy do this much in the Red Sea, and there has to be a risk they real miscalculate in Iraq/Syria.
    Proxies are low cost and expendable to a fair degree. They are even willing to lose their own people operating in those countries. Having someone launch conventional strikes inside their borders or nearshore is a different game altogether. The bar is very high for any one to do that, so its a fair margin of safety for the Iranians to work in.

    Like so many dictatorships, their capacity for talk exceedss their capacity to militarily execute on a large scale and the Iranians do get that. Like many dictatorships they also understand force and will back off from the more bold and high profile stuff if they get hammered across the head.

    As it is theese strikes are too limited. I have no doubt the messages have been sent in the post explaining to the Houthis and Iran that this is a shot across the bows and to behave but its potentially too light to make them stop.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198
    Nigelb said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    carnforth said:

    Twitter claims, with video, that the air strikes have started (and that a US ship was hit by a Houthi missile) but no reliable source yet.

    If the latter is true, and a single U.S. sailor so much as broke a nail, then this is about to get much bigger.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_U.S._bases_in_Iraq_and_Syria_(2023–present)

    Starting on 17 October 2023, Iran-backed militias initiated a coordinated series of more than 115 attacks on U.S. military bases and assets in Syria and Iraq. These attacks resulted in injuries to dozens of U.S. servicemembers
    I cannot see any version of the next five years that doesn’t end with war with Iran.
    Can't the CIA start a revolution or something?
    I think they might see it coming this time round .
    It’s the fact that it’s exactly what they expect us to do that means we have the element of surprise. They’d never expect us to do the one thing they expect us to do.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,034
    biggles said:

    Nigelb said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    carnforth said:

    Twitter claims, with video, that the air strikes have started (and that a US ship was hit by a Houthi missile) but no reliable source yet.

    If the latter is true, and a single U.S. sailor so much as broke a nail, then this is about to get much bigger.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_U.S._bases_in_Iraq_and_Syria_(2023–present)

    Starting on 17 October 2023, Iran-backed militias initiated a coordinated series of more than 115 attacks on U.S. military bases and assets in Syria and Iraq. These attacks resulted in injuries to dozens of U.S. servicemembers
    I cannot see any version of the next five years that doesn’t end with war with Iran.
    Can't the CIA start a revolution or something?
    I think they might see it coming this time round .
    It’s the fact that it’s exactly what they expect us to do that means we have the element of surprise. They’d never expect us to do the one thing they expect us to do.
    So, what's the Shah (in exile) up to these days?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,193
    biggles said:

    Nigelb said:

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    carnforth said:

    Twitter claims, with video, that the air strikes have started (and that a US ship was hit by a Houthi missile) but no reliable source yet.

    If the latter is true, and a single U.S. sailor so much as broke a nail, then this is about to get much bigger.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_U.S._bases_in_Iraq_and_Syria_(2023–present)

    Starting on 17 October 2023, Iran-backed militias initiated a coordinated series of more than 115 attacks on U.S. military bases and assets in Syria and Iraq. These attacks resulted in injuries to dozens of U.S. servicemembers
    I cannot see any version of the next five years that doesn’t end with war with Iran.
    Can't the CIA start a revolution or something?
    I think they might see it coming this time round .
    It’s the fact that it’s exactly what they expect us to do that means we have the element of surprise. They’d never expect us to do the one thing they expect us to do.
    But you've just given the game away.

    Damn.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,949
    Yokes said:

    The Sky news coverage on this is awful. Just comes across as ignorant and witless as fuck, and thats their journalists.

    For the record, Hodeidah on the Yemen coast is a Houthi military hub for their Red Sea efforts. The Houthis knew it was going to get hit, some of their military were evacuating the city earlier this evening.

    Sky News has really gone downhill over the last 5 to 10 years.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Is SKS behind Arsenal’s recent drop in form? I mean, they really have been quite shit recently. It’s not hard to put two and two together.

    I’m listening to a podcast about them right now - they haven’t been shit at all actually, according to the underlying metrics, just unlucky with variance
    "We were unlucky with variance" would be a novel post match spin.
    It is true so often though. In a low scoring sport, the result often doesn’t reflect a teams dominance.
    This is absolutely right.

    And it's amazing how often sports fans and gamblers don't get it.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Nigelb said:

    Here's a clip of Trump claiming he would be a completely ineffective president if he didn't have immunity to commit crimes on his own behalf.

    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1745531306115490039

    His legal team claimed the other day that a president could assasinate his opponent and would have immunity.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,453
    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Been out all day so only just catching up. The British and American governments are planning military action against Sir Keir Starmer for his disruption of shipping in the Red Sea - have I got that right?

    I don’t want to panic unduly, but. Should we brace for global thermonuclear war?

    This evening on the next table at the Anchor and Hope was Matthew Broderick. (With his wife Sarah Jessica Parker and some thesps - they’re on at the Old Vic).

    My friend said “look, it’s Ferris Bueller”. I
    Thought: “Global thermonuclear war. The only winning move is not to play”. And sex in the city.
    Great pub, although I haven’t been there for years. Used to be the only decent grub around Waterloo.
    Still very good. It manages to feel a bit like a Paris bistrot or Lyon bouchon without trying too hard. People complain about the noise but it’s not that loud.

    Though there’s been Meson don Felipe just opposite for decades too and that’s a pretty decent and authentic tapas place.

    Oh and apparently Matthew and Sarah aren’t on at the Old Vic, they’re at the Savoy theatre. So they were venturing SOTR for dinner.
    I dropped my phone down the toilet whilst on a date at Meson don Felipe! Little bloke playing guitar near the ceiling that night too.

    I used to really love that area. The Laughing Gravy went from being a bit of a rough and tumble restaurant to a bit of a foodie fav I think. The Baltic was nice for a date too
    I agree it’s a great little area and a bit under the radar still. I used to work quite close too and spent much more time around there. I should go more often, it’s only half an hour on the bus.
    I miss it. I worked there for about nine years, and when I was on tinder, used to meet dates there a lot! A hidden gem of London. Was it The White Hart on that Dickensian Street opposite Waterloo? Nice little pub.
    I used to live 2 doors down from that pub! Cornwall Road. Back in the 90s.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,317

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    biggles said:

    Been out all day so only just catching up. The British and American governments are planning military action against Sir Keir Starmer for his disruption of shipping in the Red Sea - have I got that right?

    I don’t want to panic unduly, but. Should we brace for global thermonuclear war?

    This evening on the next table at the Anchor and Hope was Matthew Broderick. (With his wife Sarah Jessica Parker and some thesps - they’re on at the Old Vic).

    My friend said “look, it’s Ferris Bueller”. I
    Thought: “Global thermonuclear war. The only winning move is not to play”. And sex in the city.
    Great pub, although I haven’t been there for years. Used to be the only decent grub around Waterloo.
    Still very good. It manages to feel a bit like a Paris bistrot or Lyon bouchon without trying too hard. People complain about the noise but it’s not that loud.

    Though there’s been Meson don Felipe just opposite for decades too and that’s a pretty decent and authentic tapas place.

    Oh and apparently Matthew and Sarah aren’t on at the Old Vic, they’re at the Savoy theatre. So they were venturing SOTR for dinner.
    I dropped my phone down the toilet whilst on a date at Meson don Felipe! Little bloke playing guitar near the ceiling that night too.

    I used to really love that area. The Laughing Gravy went from being a bit of a rough and tumble restaurant to a bit of a foodie fav I think. The Baltic was nice for a date too
    I agree it’s a great little area and a bit under the radar still. I used to work quite close too and spent much more time around there. I should go more often, it’s only half an hour on the bus.
    I miss it. I worked there for about nine years, and when I was on tinder, used to meet dates there a lot! A hidden gem of London. Was it The White Hart on that Dickensian Street opposite Waterloo? Nice little pub.
    I used to live 2 doors down from that pub! Cornwall Road. Back in the 90s.
    Prefer the King’s Arms…
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,701
    We need Colonel Mad Mitch to retake Aden.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,317

    We need Colonel Mad Mitch to retake Aden.

    What a great wiki profile he has.
    Where’s the biopic????
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,701
    Foxy said:

    Despite inflation coming down, CoL by far the most important issue for most. Immigration drops to 4th place, displaced by climate.


    Note how low Brexit is.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,391

    Foxy said:

    Despite inflation coming down, CoL by far the most important issue for most. Immigration drops to 4th place, displaced by climate.


    Note how low Brexit is.
    Also how low the war in Ukraine. In late 2022 it was far higher and Brits were willing to sacrifice heating in winter to help. Can we say the same now?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,701
    Cyclefree said:

    Excerpt from impressive (in one sense) testimony of Stephen Bradshaw, Post Office Investigator

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbCZAXLwTgw

    Sorry is such a difficult word...

    In all seriousness, that was quite something.
    If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
    That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.

    In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?

    In this case, a series of witnesses claim that Bradshaw lied to them, hounded them, and mistreated them. See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67941754
    This is what he wrote in his appraisal. Contrast with what he told the Inquiry today.



    Another one suffering from sloping shoulders syndrome.
    That's fucking delicious. Even (1) and (3) - on top of the appallingness of (2):

    (1) um, I answered a phone call and gave some entirely banal advice that was day-job
    (3) I made a couple of comments during presentation by someone else on a training day.

    It tells me he's a useless valueless waste of space, and a snake.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,317

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Not sure this has been covered yet:

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745539594987192383?t=i22lPT0OZv2yiXr6ohLodQ&s=19

    🌹Labour 42% (-)
    🌳Conservatives 27% (-1)
    🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1)
    🟣Reform UK 9% (+1)
    💚Greens 8% (+2)
    Labour lead of 15
    Field work 9/1-11/1

    Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.

    "People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745538792335839305?t=pZTzHMeXMFjPwcM2jelWBQ&s=19

    One thing I like of this pollster is how they break down by generation, and also try to squeeze the initial "Don't Knows" into a choice.

    Lab ahead with all age groups under 75, even boomers. If forced to choose then DKs break fairly evenly, but narrowly for Labour.

    Strewth.
    If don't knows are breaking for Labour (even slightly) then that's devastating.
    If the crossover age is 75+ then...well.
    Yeah, but, no. All the don’t knows breaking Tory might vote on the day, whilst all those favouring Labour stay at home, might not remotely be even split from each.

    Something has happened reasonably recently for large number of voters to decide conclusively against Tories. I think it might have been Conference Season. I think Radical Rishi Unleashed & The Great HS2 Surrender has gone down badly with voters. Conservative drift downward seems to stem from that week?
    The HS2 decision really fucked the infrastructure industry in this country and has caused chaos, quite aside from it being economically devastating.

    I'm still furious about it. And the idea that Sunak thought this was evidence of him taking great decisions for the long-term that would appeal to voters.

    I mean, WTF?
    Now multiply this across pretty much every other sector and that Britain under Tory rule today.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,701
    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    Despite inflation coming down, CoL by far the most important issue for most. Immigration drops to 4th place, displaced by climate.


    Note how low Brexit is.
    Also how low the war in Ukraine. In late 2022 it was far higher and Brits were willing to sacrifice heating in winter to help. Can we say the same now?
    What does worry me is how Defence isn't really on the list at all.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,737
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Is SKS behind Arsenal’s recent drop in form? I mean, they really have been quite shit recently. It’s not hard to put two and two together.

    I’m listening to a podcast about them right now - they haven’t been shit at all actually, according to the underlying metrics, just unlucky with variance
    "We were unlucky with variance" would be a novel post match spin.
    It is true so often though. In a low scoring sport, the result often doesn’t reflect a teams dominance.
    This is absolutely right.

    And it's amazing how often sports fans and gamblers don't get it.
    It's true, but building title-winning teams is now based around finding strategies that limit that variance. Obvious ones being:

    1.) Have a forward(s) with an abnormally high conversion rate (hence the traditional prizing of 'world class' forwards).
    2.) Dominate possession so heavily that your opponents simply don't have the ball enough to create any or few chances. (early Pep)
    3.) Be so strong defensively that you give away few chances even if you don't dominate the ball (e.g. Peak Mourinho).

    Arsenal's difficulty maybe that they aren't really there with any of these at the moment, meaning that even when they play well they succumb to the variance of luck or error.

    Their lack of 1.) is endlessly discussed but not easily rectified. 2.) They almost always outpass opponents but don't have the Pep/Spain 2010 levels of possession that completely strangles games - if that is even possible with modern pressing. As for 3.) their centre-back pairing is excellent but the injury to Saliba made them fade last season, and their full-backs are focused on going forward - meaning they're never going to completely shut out opponents in the way that teams built around defensive strength usually are.

    So they are perhaps subject to those ups and downs n a way those who win league titles usually aren't now (going back to the 90s they could lose/draw more games). As they're often defined by how they find ways of removing the risk of falling foul of football's natural variance.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Not sure this has been covered yet:

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745539594987192383?t=i22lPT0OZv2yiXr6ohLodQ&s=19

    🌹Labour 42% (-)
    🌳Conservatives 27% (-1)
    🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1)
    🟣Reform UK 9% (+1)
    💚Greens 8% (+2)
    Labour lead of 15
    Field work 9/1-11/1

    Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.

    "People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."

    https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745538792335839305?t=pZTzHMeXMFjPwcM2jelWBQ&s=19

    One thing I like of this pollster is how they break down by generation, and also try to squeeze the initial "Don't Knows" into a choice.

    Lab ahead with all age groups under 75, even boomers. If forced to choose then DKs break fairly evenly, but narrowly for Labour.

    Strewth.
    If don't knows are breaking for Labour (even slightly) then that's devastating.
    If the crossover age is 75+ then...well.
    Yeah, but, no. All the don’t knows breaking Tory might vote on the day, whilst all those favouring Labour stay at home, might not remotely be even split from each.

    Something has happened reasonably recently for large number of voters to decide conclusively against Tories. I think it might have been Conference Season. I think Radical Rishi Unleashed & The Great HS2 Surrender has gone down badly with voters. Conservative drift downward seems to stem from that week?
    The HS2 decision really fucked the infrastructure industry in this country and has caused chaos, quite aside from it being economically devastating.

    I'm still furious about it. And the idea that Sunak thought this was evidence of him taking great decisions for the long-term that would appeal to voters.

    I mean, WTF?
    Now multiply this across pretty much every other sector and that Britain under Tory rule today.
    But it also massively raises expectations that Lab has a magic wand and a bulging money tree.... the next Govt of whatever persuasion is in for a rough ride
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464

    We need Colonel Mad Mitch to retake Aden.

    What a great wiki profile he has.
    Where’s the biopic????
    Empire Warriors - a BBC docu-drama from approx 2008-9 time captures it very well.

This discussion has been closed.