It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.
Because he's their man.
2024 to 2029 is going to be fun on here - Will make the Brexit Wars look like a tea party! 😂
In the same way Boris's 2019 coalition dissolved quickly in all directions, we could find exactly the same for Starmer's 2024 one.
To be fair, the early stages of the 2019-24 Parliament were unique - not many incoming Governments have had to deal with a full scale health crisis within weeks of taking office. Indeed, the Government maintained and even increased support during the actual lockdown phases of the pandemic and have lost support as the consequences and its own actions have come out.
Absent the pandemic, it's probable the Johnson Government would have had a midterm trough (most Governments do) but I suspect Boris Johnson would still be Prime Minister. The pandemic and its consequences continue to echo through the economy and politics.
As to what will happen after a 2024 Labour election win? I suspect a honeymoon into 2025 as falling interest rates, falling inflation and a general feelgood about being rid of the Conservatives and their supine followers makes everyone's Christmas merry and their New Year happy.
What will be interesting in 2025 is where the disillusioned Labour supporters go - back to the Conservatives? I'm not sure - the Tories will be in the midst of their own soul searching so the initial beneficiaries could be the LDs and Reform - the biggest question for me after the election is whether Reform will make any attmept to supplant the Conservatives on the centre right or whether they will go the other route and seek to supplant the Conservatives from within.
I'm also interested to see if anyone on the political Left goes down the Wagenknecht route and sets up an anti-immigration culturally conservative socialist party (which could do very well). It's a gap in politics as social democracy is more internationalist and "traditional" Labour had a distinct anti-immigrant authoritarian aspect - think Jack Straw. Is there a Wagneknecht on the Labour side and could such a group counter Reform whose politics, beyond its immigrant stance, are far from clear.
This approach was tried in South Africa, in Rand goldmines circa 1920-something, as in immortal cry: "White Workers of the World Unite!"
Over century before, the Workingmen's Party of California campaigned on slogan "The Chinese must go!"
Closer to home, the bus drivers' union in Bristol in the late 50s/early 60s?
Thanks again, Ms Free - or should it now be St Cyclefree of PB? - for another excellent thread header.
Any sign yet of contrition from your legal colleagues....or even the illegal ones?
I post about this on my work website and have done for the best part of a year. Got good reactions initially but since the TV drama, the response on LinkedIn to posts from me and, more importantly, some of the lawyers previously involved has increased substantially. There is a fair amount of concern about what has been revealed.
Those who do investigations have been quiet, though: there will be a lot of learnings for them once the inquiry reports.
Interestingly, one of my clients for whom I write on legal topics has asked for 2 pieces this week on the "computer is right" aspect - this has been picked up because it has implications beyond prosecutions (VM me if anyone is interested) - and on the whistleblowing aspects. The latter is being published tomorrow.
So how many times have you (and terrified underlings at your less-than-tender mercy) pushed THAT button?
They do it all the time.
During lockdown in December 2020 we had a virtual Christmas party and my team decided the best thing to do after the quizzes and awards was to watch Die Hard and eat Hawaiian pizzas.
So how many times have you (and terrified underlings at your less-than-tender mercy) pushed THAT button?
They do it all the time.
During lockdown in December 2020 we had a virtual Christmas party and my team decided the best thing to do after the quizzes and awards was to watch Die Hard and eat Hawaiian pizzas.
Which management style resulted in such heresy? Democratic leadership, or laissez-faire leadership.
It seems then the Gaza Conflict is if not escalating then spreading.
The Houthis, supported by the likes of Iran and North Korea, have been trying to interdict shipping in the Red Sea with particular (and largely unsuccessful) emphasis on western shipping.
Now it seems London and Washington are out of patience and we're going to be seeing pictures of missiles launched and presumably landing on missile batteries and command and control facilities around Sana'a and other parts of North Yemen under Houthi control.
Whether this can in any way empower the pro-Saudi Republic of Yemen forces in Aden to advance north and re-unite the country I don't know but the suffering of the Yemeni people (not widely reported in the western media) needs to be alleviated.
The European dimension is interesting too. France was conspicuously absent from the joint statement signed by the US, UK, Australia and allies last week.
AIUI France have their own ships in the Red Sea, helping (mainly, but not solely) French-flagged ships. They have chosen not to have their ships under the same command as the US/UK/etc.
So how many times have you (and terrified underlings at your less-than-tender mercy) pushed THAT button?
They do it all the time.
During lockdown in December 2020 we had a virtual Christmas party and my team decided the best thing to do after the quizzes and awards was to watch Die Hard and eat Hawaiian pizzas.
Which management style resulted in such heresy? Democratic leadership, or laissez-faire leadership.
It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.
Because he's their man.
Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.
I just think the attacks are silly.
The PO attacks on Starmer are very silly, it makes all the posters look very immature and a bit too pointless in their postings. Starmer didn’t know about these cases, and do we know yet how horizon related they even are, so the only attack line is he should have kmown, which, yes, in the land of realism is just plain stupid. UNLESS of course the smoking gun is found that STARMER DID KNOW ABOUT THEM. that would be very different.
However the Saville question, though still not all that damaging to Starmer overall, is more substantial, because Starmer knew about the file being closed - we take it 2nd hand that made him cross. But it wasn’t reopened.
The PO attacks on Starmer have disabled one of his goto phrases. “I was DPP” no longer carries the idea of a upright lawman shooting down the baddies, but has ‘locking up postmaster’ connotations
That was surely the point of it? He’s not going to racing over it, but he’s already less sure footed on his tenure as DPP
This stuff is just so desperate.
Do you think Starmer has any questions to answer over this? If not, why not?
So one of the suggestions doing the rounds is the CPS prosecutions were where
I) The guilty party genuinely was guilty and importantly
II) Branched out to into other crimes like money laundering which the PO couldn’t prosecute
If this true then Starmer should be safe.
As I asked earlier, how can you know the 'guilty' party is 'genuinely' guilty before a trial? Even if there is a confession, it's hardly as though confessions haven't been garnered incorrectly in the past.
How do you arrive at that incoherent nonsense?
The point that TSE makes clearly has nothing to do with pre-ordained guilt or innocence. My understanding is what he suggested in crystal clear English is that cases with a second or third charge were beyond the paygrade and experience/aptitude of the PO. salaried solicitors.
So if the PO Gumshoes discover Feathers McGraw has a counterfeit currency operation behind his Post Office as a result of investigating Horizon irregularities, assistance would be sought from the CPS. Help would be required because a) a low level solicitor wouldn't have a clue how to execute a prosecution and b)such a prosecution is not in the PO private prosecution remit.
But that comes back to a point I made previously: how can we trust the Post Office's investigators, given everything they've done? And as I also said previously, if the charges have nothing to do with Horizon then they may stand - albeit with severe reservations if the PO were involved in the investigation.
I might also suggest you listen to that short clip posted earlier, to see the way the PO tried to use bogus charges to get people to cough up to other charges. "We'll drop this (bogus) charge if you accept this charge we cannot prove..." (AIUI from the clip)
If a postmaster was prosecuted and the Post Office was not involved with the investiation, then it's obviously nothing to do with this proposed scheme.
Turns out a Yorkshireman who read Law at Cambridge is one of the real heroes in life and sums up the scum at the Post Office.
Lord Justice Fraser, the judge who stopped the operator of Horizon system
Rulings and regulations of man who presided over the Bates and Others v Post Office Ltd case
As part of the legal wrangling the Post Office lawyers tried to get Lord Fraser taken off the case in a last-ditch attempt to salvage their chances of winning, but failed.
From the header: For years the criminal justice system has been underfunded. Agreed.
I would also contend that for years: education, the health service, the police, the immigration service, infrastructure and defence have also been underfunded. I've probably missed a few.
What's the Tories answer? Tax cuts.
It's time to face up to reality, we can no longer trying to run first world public services on the cheap. Whichever party wins the next few elections I confidently predict total tax %GDP will be higher in 10 years time than now.
Many will be asking how we have simultaneously a record tax take and broken, underfunded public services. Where is all the money going?
Quite a large sum seems to go to a load of external service providers like Fujitsu who then provide crap in return.
Aubrey Allegretti @breeallegretti Exc: I’m told PM Rishi Sunak has approved the civil service to begin access talks. Ball now in Labour’s court - they will get to formally request them.
So how many times have you (and terrified underlings at your less-than-tender mercy) pushed THAT button?
They do it all the time.
During lockdown in December 2020 we had a virtual Christmas party and my team decided the best thing to do after the quizzes and awards was to watch Die Hard and eat Hawaiian pizzas.
Which management style resulted in such heresy? Democratic leadership, or laissez-faire leadership.
Definitely my laissez-faire do not micromanage leadership.
Some of these people have worked for me for over a decade and/or moved firms/half way across the country to work for me again.
Plus they are used to my sense of humour which means no awkward chats for me with HR.
I know this may shock PBers but my sense of humour is a bit wild.
"The scenario which included the UK in the EU used an E3ME model, which is used transnationally for forecasting. It includes data from UN, OECD, World Bank, IMF, the ONS and Eurostat."
A bollocks model then.
Yep, if you believe that, you'll believe anything.
Aubrey Allegretti @breeallegretti Exc: I’m told PM Rishi Sunak has approved the civil service to begin access talks. Ball now in Labour’s court - they will get to formally request them.
Aubrey Allegretti @breeallegretti Exc: I’m told PM Rishi Sunak has approved the civil service to begin access talks. Ball now in Labour’s court - they will get to formally request them.
So how many times have you (and terrified underlings at your less-than-tender mercy) pushed THAT button?
They do it all the time.
During lockdown in December 2020 we had a virtual Christmas party and my team decided the best thing to do after the quizzes and awards was to watch Die Hard and eat Hawaiian pizzas.
Which management style resulted in such heresy? Democratic leadership, or laissez-faire leadership.
Definitely my laissez-faire do not micromanage leadership.
Some of these people have worked for me for over a decade and/or moved firms/half way across the country to work for me again.
Plus they are used to my sense of humour which means no awkward chats for me with HR.
I know this may shock PBers but my sense of humour is a bit wild.
I still recall your joke along the lines of asking your secretary to get the sex harassment complaint forms from the bottom draw of the filing cabinet. My less than politically correct friends still enjoy that one.
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.
In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.
In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?
It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.
Because he's their man.
Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.
I just think the attacks are silly.
The PO attacks on Starmer are very silly, it makes all the posters look very immature and a bit too pointless in their postings. Starmer didn’t know about these cases, and do we know yet how horizon related they even are, so the only attack line is he should have kmown, which, yes, in the land of realism is just plain stupid. UNLESS of course the smoking gun is found that STARMER DID KNOW ABOUT THEM. that would be very different.
However the Saville question, though still not all that damaging to Starmer overall, is more substantial, because Starmer knew about the file being closed - we take it 2nd hand that made him cross. But it wasn’t reopened.
The PO attacks on Starmer have disabled one of his goto phrases. “I was DPP” no longer carries the idea of a upright lawman shooting down the baddies, but has ‘locking up postmaster’ connotations
That was surely the point of it? He’s not going to racing over it, but he’s already less sure footed on his tenure as DPP
This stuff is just so desperate.
So you don't think SKS had any questions to answer then?
He's answered the questions he needed to answer. Was he aware of any CPS PO prosecutions. No. Should he have been aware of every prosecution (circa 500,000 of them?) during his time as DDP? Again, no - simply not possible.
He said 4 million cases apparently. I suppose isam will be here in a few microseconds to suggest the discrepancy in the numbers is suspicious.
Though it seems a bit unfair if isam is going to suggest Keir Starmer should have been aware of 4 million things, when isam is obsessed by just one ...
Somebody’s a Sir Keir fan ❤️
You seriously looking us in the eyes and saying Starmer can’t use his CPS credentials anymore becuase this PO stuff has sullied all that?
On PB everything gets kept, Isam, and mercilessly used against you. What might sound okay in the middle of a fuckmule can be credibility shedding posted to laugh at you in two years time. Take the example of Big G and Beergate 🫣. Actually beergate, out of PO, Saville, is the one of the three which actually hurt Starmer, because everyone in the village pub thought it a stretch to call that a working meeting, and what insane jumble of gathering rules were for workers was or wasn’t on that day was a complete blur to everyone in hindsight. But it was still not enough to really hurt Starmer.
I suggest smarter thing you can attack him with - is he one of us? what’s his K for? Does everyone who holds the office automatically get a K, regardless if the CPS was utter shite under them or merely half shite? The likes of the PO head who handed hers back, people like crozier as well who’s friends at ITV ensured he was airbrushed out of the drama, they don’t just get gongs, they are on a roundabout of high paying jobs massive bonuses for the girls and boys, no matter what evil or utter dipsticks they actually are. This is where Starmer comes in, did he get his top job on merit, his K on merit, his statutory instrument pension on merit, or is he one of them not one of us - part of the unmeritocracy?
Hint hint nudge nudge is better line of hollowing someone out, than attack lines just so dependant on a proper smoking gun, being the daft thing you and casino done last couple of days. The only harm has been to your own credibility.
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.
In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?
This is what he wrote in his appraisal. Contrast with what he told the Inquiry today.
Another one suffering from sloping shoulders syndrome.
It's a very weird attitude that seems to have been shared by a lot of people who saw the wider implications of admitting that the system had problems, that if only they could keep up the pretence that it didn't, then everything would be ok. Didn't it occur to them that it was imperative to find out the truth first?
So how many times have you (and terrified underlings at your less-than-tender mercy) pushed THAT button?
They do it all the time.
During lockdown in December 2020 we had a virtual Christmas party and my team decided the best thing to do after the quizzes and awards was to watch Die Hard and eat Hawaiian pizzas.
Might not be able to do it much longer. Pizza chefs no longer welcome.
'On the proviso that Gusto could show recruiting domestically was impossible, the company could pay the government £3,000 a time for a licence to hire chefs from overseas on a temporary visa.
Bravissimo, staff shortage solved.
“In the last 18 months we have recruited 30 chefs and have spent over £200,000 on this project,” says Snell. “It has been the difference between keeping restaurants open or closed.”
That lifeline – and the pizza – is now under threat from a Conservative government policy that many in hospitality feel prioritises political calculation over economic realism.'
So how many times have you (and terrified underlings at your less-than-tender mercy) pushed THAT button?
They do it all the time.
During lockdown in December 2020 we had a virtual Christmas party and my team decided the best thing to do after the quizzes and awards was to watch Die Hard and eat Hawaiian pizzas.
Die Hard is the greatest Christmas action film ever made!
Pineapple on pizza is no way as bad as sultanas in curry/biryani!
It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.
Because he's their man.
Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.
I just think the attacks are silly.
The PO attacks on Starmer are very silly, it makes all the posters look very immature and a bit too pointless in their postings. Starmer didn’t know about these cases, and do we know yet how horizon related they even are, so the only attack line is he should have kmown, which, yes, in the land of realism is just plain stupid. UNLESS of course the smoking gun is found that STARMER DID KNOW ABOUT THEM. that would be very different.
However the Saville question, though still not all that damaging to Starmer overall, is more substantial, because Starmer knew about the file being closed - we take it 2nd hand that made him cross. But it wasn’t reopened.
The PO attacks on Starmer have disabled one of his goto phrases. “I was DPP” no longer carries the idea of a upright lawman shooting down the baddies, but has ‘locking up postmaster’ connotations
That was surely the point of it? He’s not going to racing over it, but he’s already less sure footed on his tenure as DPP
This stuff is just so desperate.
Do you think Starmer has any questions to answer over this? If not, why not?
So one of the suggestions doing the rounds is the CPS prosecutions were where
I) The guilty party genuinely was guilty and importantly
II) Branched out to into other crimes like money laundering which the PO couldn’t prosecute
If this true then Starmer should be safe.
As I asked earlier, how can you know the 'guilty' party is 'genuinely' guilty before a trial? Even if there is a confession, it's hardly as though confessions haven't been garnered incorrectly in the past.
How do you arrive at that incoherent nonsense?
The point that TSE makes clearly has nothing to do with pre-ordained guilt or innocence. My understanding is what he suggested in crystal clear English is that cases with a second or third charge were beyond the paygrade and experience/aptitude of the PO. salaried solicitors.
So if the PO Gumshoes discover Feathers McGraw has a counterfeit currency operation behind his Post Office as a result of investigating Horizon irregularities, assistance would be sought from the CPS. Help would be required because a) a low level solicitor wouldn't have a clue how to execute a prosecution and b)such a prosecution is not in the PO private prosecution remit.
But that comes back to a point I made previously: how can we trust the Post Office's investigators, given everything they've done? And as I also said previously, if the charges have nothing to do with Horizon then they may stand - albeit with severe reservations if the PO were involved in the investigation.
I might also suggest you listen to that short clip posted earlier, to see the way the PO tried to use bogus charges to get people to cough up to other charges. "We'll drop this (bogus) charge if you accept this charge we cannot prove..." (AIUI from the clip)
If a postmaster was prosecuted and the Post Office was not involved with the investiation, then it's obviously nothing to do with this proposed scheme.
Christ on a bike!
Feathers McGraw might be under suspicion for imbalanced books flagged up by Horizon, as well as substituting genuine cash with his counterfeit notes into the Post Office banking system and operating an illegal mail order Thai bride immigration business from a Royal Mail pillar box. So several charges, some linked to Horizon, other associated charges, not necessarily. So they better ask the CPS how best to proceed.
For goodness sake, hang Starmer if you like. I don't care.
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.
In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?
This is what he wrote in his appraisal. Contrast with what he told the Inquiry today.
Another one suffering from sloping shoulders syndrome.
It's a very weird attitude that seems to have been shared by a lot of people who saw the wider implications of admitting that the system had problems, that if only they could keep up the pretence that it didn't, then everything would be ok.
For them it was, for years at least. Anything for a quiet life, and always look for the easiest path.
So how many times have you (and terrified underlings at your less-than-tender mercy) pushed THAT button?
They do it all the time.
During lockdown in December 2020 we had a virtual Christmas party and my team decided the best thing to do after the quizzes and awards was to watch Die Hard and eat Hawaiian pizzas.
Which management style resulted in such heresy? Democratic leadership, or laissez-faire leadership.
Definitely my laissez-faire do not micromanage leadership.
Some of these people have worked for me for over a decade and/or moved firms/half way across the country to work for me again.
Plus they are used to my sense of humour which means no awkward chats for me with HR.
I know this may shock PBers but my sense of humour is a bit wild.
I still recall your joke along the lines of asking your secretary to get the sex harassment complaint forms from the bottom draw of the filing cabinet. My less than politically correct friends still enjoy that one.
The irony is the overwhelming majority of my team are female (16 out of 25) and my current executive assistant is a male.
Their general response to me laughing at/making innuendos is either
'You're such a fucking child'
or
'I can tell you're a former public schoolboy Tory twat.'
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.
In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?
This is what he wrote in his appraisal. Contrast with what he told the Inquiry today.
Another one suffering from sloping shoulders syndrome.
It's a very weird attitude that seems to have been shared by a lot of people who saw the wider implications of admitting that the system had problems, that if only they could keep up the pretence that it didn't, then everything would be ok. Didn't it occur to them that it was imperative to find out the truth first?
Seemingly not.
But it doesn't surprise me. I have seen it in the City. That level of denial can last a very long time, especially if it is condoned or explicitly encouraged by those at the top. A sort of ethical blindness develops.
It takes a near death experience, determined pressure by external stakeholders and a change of management to turn such a culture around. I don't think, based on what I've seen, that the Post Office is anywhere near where it needs to be if it is to get out of the moral swamp it is in now.
It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.
Because he's their man.
Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.
I just think the attacks are silly.
The PO attacks on Starmer are very silly, it makes all the posters look very immature and a bit too pointless in their postings. Starmer didn’t know about these cases, and do we know yet how horizon related they even are, so the only attack line is he should have kmown, which, yes, in the land of realism is just plain stupid. UNLESS of course the smoking gun is found that STARMER DID KNOW ABOUT THEM. that would be very different.
However the Saville question, though still not all that damaging to Starmer overall, is more substantial, because Starmer knew about the file being closed - we take it 2nd hand that made him cross. But it wasn’t reopened.
The PO attacks on Starmer have disabled one of his goto phrases. “I was DPP” no longer carries the idea of a upright lawman shooting down the baddies, but has ‘locking up postmaster’ connotations
That was surely the point of it? He’s not going to racing over it, but he’s already less sure footed on his tenure as DPP
I think his point about not knowing of all the cases is a valid one - after all, how could he know about every prosecution?
Where it might be an issue is if there were reports at the time questioning the safety of the convictions. If so, it might be argued he should have been more inquisitive and / or questioned the rationale.
(I think this is one of SKS’ weaknesses - he follows processes and is not a natural ‘out of the box’ thinker).
I think that is an excellent point Kitchener. To me “just following process” is one of the greatest evils of this world, and exactly what we don’t need from leadership groups or individuals with power.
It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.
Because he's their man.
2024 to 2029 is going to be fun on here - Will make the Brexit Wars look like a tea party! 😂
In the same way Boris's 2019 coalition dissolved quickly in all directions, we could find exactly the same for Starmer's 2024 one.
To be fair, the early stages of the 2019-24 Parliament were unique - not many incoming Governments have had to deal with a full scale health crisis within weeks of taking office. Indeed, the Government maintained and even increased support during the actual lockdown phases of the pandemic and have lost support as the consequences and its own actions have come out.
Absent the pandemic, it's probable the Johnson Government would have had a midterm trough (most Governments do) but I suspect Boris Johnson would still be Prime Minister. The pandemic and its consequences continue to echo through the economy and politics.
As to what will happen after a 2024 Labour election win? I suspect a honeymoon into 2025 as falling interest rates, falling inflation and a general feelgood about being rid of the Conservatives and their supine followers makes everyone's Christmas merry and their New Year happy.
What will be interesting in 2025 is where the disillusioned Labour supporters go - back to the Conservatives? I'm not sure - the Tories will be in the midst of their own soul searching so the initial beneficiaries could be the LDs and Reform - the biggest question for me after the election is whether Reform will make any attmept to supplant the Conservatives on the centre right or whether they will go the other route and seek to supplant the Conservatives from within.
I'm also interested to see if anyone on the political Left goes down the Wagenknecht route and sets up an anti-immigration culturally conservative socialist party (which could do very well). It's a gap in politics as social democracy is more internationalist and "traditional" Labour had a distinct anti-immigrant authoritarian aspect - think Jack Straw. Is there a Wagneknecht on the Labour side and could such a group counter Reform whose politics, beyond its immigrant stance, are far from clear.
This approach was tried in South Africa, in Rand goldmines circa 1920-something, as in immortal cry: "White Workers of the World Unite!"
Over century before, the Workingmen's Party of California campaigned on slogan "The Chinese must go!"
Closer to home, the bus drivers' union in Bristol in the late 50s/early 60s?
Even closer to home, the pay differentials of our male members must be preserved.
Anyone know how the Houthis get their weapons? I would guess that most come from Iran, by sea, but haven't seen any official, or even semi-official, statements on the question.
If so, would it be possible to stop those shipments, or at least reduce them, by mining a harbor or two?
(You might not want to do that even if possible, if, as I suspect, the Houthis are not self-sufficient in food. I don't object to cutting off food to people who are shooting at us and our friends, but I recognize that it might cause diplomatic problems.)
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
Except that as well as being investigator in many of these cases, he was also disclosure officer - and the failure to disclose exculpatory evidence (and more, the deliberate concealment if it) was instrumental in obtaining the unfair convictions. The questioning established (assuming he wasn’t just lying, which didn’t seem to be the case) that he was utterly ignorant of his responsibilities.
So how many times have you (and terrified underlings at your less-than-tender mercy) pushed THAT button?
They do it all the time.
During lockdown in December 2020 we had a virtual Christmas party and my team decided the best thing to do after the quizzes and awards was to watch Die Hard and eat Hawaiian pizzas.
Which management style resulted in such heresy? Democratic leadership, or laissez-faire leadership.
Definitely my laissez-faire do not micromanage leadership.
Some of these people have worked for me for over a decade and/or moved firms/half way across the country to work for me again.
Plus they are used to my sense of humour which means no awkward chats for me with HR.
I know this may shock PBers but my sense of humour is a bit wild.
I still recall your joke along the lines of asking your secretary to get the sex harassment complaint forms from the bottom draw of the filing cabinet. My less than politically correct friends still enjoy that one.
The irony is the overwhelming majority of my team are female (16 out of 25) and my current executive assistant is a male.
Their general response to me laughing at/making innuendos is either
'You're such a fucking child'
or
'I can tell you're a former public schoolboy Tory twat.'
They always say that the sign of a good manager is that they have smart people working for them.
So how many times have you (and terrified underlings at your less-than-tender mercy) pushed THAT button?
They do it all the time.
During lockdown in December 2020 we had a virtual Christmas party and my team decided the best thing to do after the quizzes and awards was to watch Die Hard and eat Hawaiian pizzas.
Which management style resulted in such heresy? Democratic leadership, or laissez-faire leadership.
Definitely my laissez-faire do not micromanage leadership.
Some of these people have worked for me for over a decade and/or moved firms/half way across the country to work for me again.
Plus they are used to my sense of humour which means no awkward chats for me with HR.
I know this may shock PBers but my sense of humour is a bit wild.
I still recall your joke along the lines of asking your secretary to get the sex harassment complaint forms from the bottom draw of the filing cabinet. My less than politically correct friends still enjoy that one.
The irony is the overwhelming majority of my team are female (16 out of 25) and my current executive assistant is a male.
Their general response to me laughing at/making innuendos is either
'You're such a fucking child'
or
'I can tell you're a former public schoolboy Tory twat.'
They always say that the sign of a good manager is that they have smart people working for them.
Yup, the beginning of wisdom is 'I do not know.'
Hire the brightest and best and I can take credit for all their hard work.
So how many times have you (and terrified underlings at your less-than-tender mercy) pushed THAT button?
They do it all the time.
During lockdown in December 2020 we had a virtual Christmas party and my team decided the best thing to do after the quizzes and awards was to watch Die Hard and eat Hawaiian pizzas.
Which management style resulted in such heresy? Democratic leadership, or laissez-faire leadership.
Definitely my laissez-faire do not micromanage leadership.
Some of these people have worked for me for over a decade and/or moved firms/half way across the country to work for me again.
Plus they are used to my sense of humour which means no awkward chats for me with HR.
I know this may shock PBers but my sense of humour is a bit wild.
I still recall your joke along the lines of asking your secretary to get the sex harassment complaint forms from the bottom draw of the filing cabinet. My less than politically correct friends still enjoy that one.
Note the "Sexual Harassment Intervention Counselor" for classic "Click & Clack" radio car-repair show on NPR was "Pat McCann".
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.
In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?
This is what he wrote in his appraisal. Contrast with what he told the Inquiry today.
Another one suffering from sloping shoulders syndrome.
Yes, his recall of past events seemed quite detailed and definite (“I never used that language” etc) when it suited him, and utterly absent (“I don’t recall” etc) when it suited him.
It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.
Because he's their man.
Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.
I just think the attacks are silly.
The PO attacks on Starmer are very silly, it makes all the posters look very immature and a bit too pointless in their postings. Starmer didn’t know about these cases, and do we know yet how horizon related they even are, so the only attack line is he should have kmown, which, yes, in the land of realism is just plain stupid. UNLESS of course the smoking gun is found that STARMER DID KNOW ABOUT THEM. that would be very different.
However the Saville question, though still not all that damaging to Starmer overall, is more substantial, because Starmer knew about the file being closed - we take it 2nd hand that made him cross. But it wasn’t reopened.
The PO attacks on Starmer have disabled one of his goto phrases. “I was DPP” no longer carries the idea of a upright lawman shooting down the baddies, but has ‘locking up postmaster’ connotations
That was surely the point of it? He’s not going to racing over it, but he’s already less sure footed on his tenure as DPP
This stuff is just so desperate.
Do you think Starmer has any questions to answer over this? If not, why not?
So one of the suggestions doing the rounds is the CPS prosecutions were where
I) The guilty party genuinely was guilty and importantly
II) Branched out to into other crimes like money laundering which the PO couldn’t prosecute
If this true then Starmer should be safe.
As I asked earlier, how can you know the 'guilty' party is 'genuinely' guilty before a trial? Even if there is a confession, it's hardly as though confessions haven't been garnered incorrectly in the past.
How do you arrive at that incoherent nonsense?
The point that TSE makes clearly has nothing to do with pre-ordained guilt or innocence. My understanding is what he suggested in crystal clear English is that cases with a second or third charge were beyond the paygrade and experience/aptitude of the PO. salaried solicitors.
So if the PO Gumshoes discover Feathers McGraw has a counterfeit currency operation behind his Post Office as a result of investigating Horizon irregularities, assistance would be sought from the CPS. Help would be required because a) a low level solicitor wouldn't have a clue how to execute a prosecution and b)such a prosecution is not in the PO private prosecution remit.
But that comes back to a point I made previously: how can we trust the Post Office's investigators, given everything they've done? And as I also said previously, if the charges have nothing to do with Horizon then they may stand - albeit with severe reservations if the PO were involved in the investigation.
I might also suggest you listen to that short clip posted earlier, to see the way the PO tried to use bogus charges to get people to cough up to other charges. "We'll drop this (bogus) charge if you accept this charge we cannot prove..." (AIUI from the clip)
If a postmaster was prosecuted and the Post Office was not involved with the investiation, then it's obviously nothing to do with this proposed scheme.
Christ on a bike!
Feathers McGraw might be under suspicion for imbalanced books flagged up by Horizon, as well as substituting genuine cash with his counterfeit notes into the Post Office banking system and operating an illegal mail order Thai bride immigration business from a Royal Mail pillar box. So several charges, some linked to Horizon, other associated charges, not necessarily. So they better ask the CPS how best to proceed.
For goodness sake, hang Starmer if you like. I don't care.
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.
In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?
This is what he wrote in his appraisal. Contrast with what he told the Inquiry today.
Another one suffering from sloping shoulders syndrome.
Yes, his recall of past events seemed quite detailed and definite (“I never used that language” etc) when it suited him, and utterly absent (“I don’t recall” etc) when it suited him.
Worked for Sam Bankman-Fried. Oh wait, no it didn't.
"The dilemma: if every convicted subpostmaster in the last 25 years applied to the Criminal Cases Review Commission (“CCRC“) to have their convictions reviewed and referred to the Court of Appeal, even if they started tomorrow, it would taken an inordinately long time to deal with them, even if the Post Office did not object"
This also seems bad in the general case, ie if there's now compelling evidence that you didn't commit the crime you're in prison for then you shouldn't spending ages stuck in there waiting for the review board. Is it impossible to make a non-political process that goes quicker for slam-dunk cases, so they can let you out for now then deal with officially overturning the conviction later? If it turns out the slow process finds that you were guilty after all then they can always rearrest you.
Sunak has called Keir Starmer and the Shadow Defence Secretary plus the speaker with anticipation joint US UK in the gulf is imminent
This looks very serious
Not really - it's a political courtesy to inform the Leader of the Opposition and the relevant Shadow Cabinet member some form of military action is imminent.
This is a direct result of the Hamas raid into Israel on October 7th and something for which they and their fellow travellers will have been hoping. An open western assault in the Middle East further polarises and radicalises opinion in the Arab world. I'm not 100% sure the Houthis represent a huge threat to shipping (or at least one which can't be managed).
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.
In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?
This is what he wrote in his appraisal. Contrast with what he told the Inquiry today.
Another one suffering from sloping shoulders syndrome.
Yes, his recall of past events seemed quite detailed and definite (“I never used that language” etc) when it suited him, and utterly absent (“I don’t recall” etc) when it suited him.
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.
In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?
Sunak has called Keir Starmer and the Shadow Defence Secretary plus the speaker with anticipation joint US UK in the gulf is imminent
This looks very serious
Not really - it's a political courtesy to inform the Leader of the Opposition and the relevant Shadow Cabinet member some form of military action is imminent.
This is a direct result of the Hamas raid into Israel on October 7th and something for which they and their fellow travellers will have been hoping. An open western assault in the Middle East further polarises and radicalises opinion in the Arab world. I'm not 100% sure the Houthis represent a huge threat to shipping (or at least one which can't be managed).
Supplied with Iranian missiles and drones, they probably do. Large carriers have already stopped shipping in the region.
And it’s just too costly to rely on western vessels shooting them down - the cost of the intercepts alone is at least an order of magnitude greater than the Iranian missiles. The cost and practicality of permanently stationing a task force there is even more problematic,
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.
In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?
It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.
Because he's their man.
Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.
I just think the attacks are silly.
The PO attacks on Starmer are very silly, it makes all the posters look very immature and a bit too pointless in their postings. Starmer didn’t know about these cases, and do we know yet how horizon related they even are, so the only attack line is he should have kmown, which, yes, in the land of realism is just plain stupid. UNLESS of course the smoking gun is found that STARMER DID KNOW ABOUT THEM. that would be very different.
However the Saville question, though still not all that damaging to Starmer overall, is more substantial, because Starmer knew about the file being closed - we take it 2nd hand that made him cross. But it wasn’t reopened.
The PO attacks on Starmer have disabled one of his goto phrases. “I was DPP” no longer carries the idea of a upright lawman shooting down the baddies, but has ‘locking up postmaster’ connotations
That was surely the point of it? He’s not going to racing over it, but he’s already less sure footed on his tenure as DPP
This stuff is just so desperate.
So you don't think SKS had any questions to answer then?
He's answered the questions he needed to answer. Was he aware of any CPS PO prosecutions. No. Should he have been aware of every prosecution (circa 500,000 of them?) during his time as DDP? Again, no - simply not possible.
He said 4 million cases apparently. I suppose isam will be here in a few microseconds to suggest the discrepancy in the numbers is suspicious.
Though it seems a bit unfair if isam is going to suggest Keir Starmer should have been aware of 4 million things, when isam is obsessed by just one ...
Somebody’s a Sir Keir fan ❤️
You seriously looking us in the eyes and saying Starmer can’t use his CPS credentials anymore becuase this PO stuff has sullied all that?
On PB everything gets kept, Isam, and mercilessly used against you. What might sound okay in the middle of a fuckmule can be credibility shedding posted to laugh at you in two years time. Take the example of Big G and Beergate 🫣. Actually beergate, out of PO, Saville, is the one of the three which actually hurt Starmer, because everyone in the village pub thought it a stretch to call that a working meeting, and what insane jumble of gathering rules were for workers was or wasn’t on that day was a complete blur to everyone in hindsight. But it was still not enough to really hurt Starmer.
I suggest smarter thing you can attack him with - is he one of us? what’s his K for? Does everyone who holds the office automatically get a K, regardless if the CPS was utter shite under them or merely half shite? The likes of the PO head who handed hers back, people like crozier as well who’s friends at ITV ensured he was airbrushed out of the drama, they don’t just get gongs, they are on a roundabout of high paying jobs massive bonuses for the girls and boys, no matter what evil or utter dipsticks they actually are. This is where Starmer comes in, did he get his top job on merit, his K on merit, his statutory instrument pension on merit, or is he one of them not one of us - part of the unmeritocracy?
Hint hint nudge nudge is better line of hollowing someone out, than attack lines just so dependant on a proper smoking gun, being the daft thing you and casino done last couple of days. The only harm has been to your own credibility.
Turns out a Yorkshireman who read Law at Cambridge is one of the real heroes in life and sums up the scum at the Post Office.
Lord Justice Fraser, the judge who stopped the operator of Horizon system
Rulings and regulations of man who presided over the Bates and Others v Post Office Ltd case
As part of the legal wrangling the Post Office lawyers tried to get Lord Fraser taken off the case in a last-ditch attempt to salvage their chances of winning, but failed.
From the header: For years the criminal justice system has been underfunded. Agreed.
I would also contend that for years: education, the health service, the police, the immigration service, infrastructure and defence have also been underfunded. I've probably missed a few.
What's the Tories answer? Tax cuts.
It's time to face up to reality, we can no longer trying to run first world public services on the cheap. Whichever party wins the next few elections I confidently predict total tax %GDP will be higher in 10 years time than now.
Many will be asking how we have simultaneously a record tax take and broken, underfunded public services. Where is all the money going?
Quite a large sum seems to go to a load of external service providers like Fujitsu who then provide crap in return.
I still can't believe the PO tried to get him removed from the case because of alleged bias.
Turns out a Yorkshireman who read Law at Cambridge is one of the real heroes in life and sums up the scum at the Post Office.
Lord Justice Fraser, the judge who stopped the operator of Horizon system
Rulings and regulations of man who presided over the Bates and Others v Post Office Ltd case
As part of the legal wrangling the Post Office lawyers tried to get Lord Fraser taken off the case in a last-ditch attempt to salvage their chances of winning, but failed.
From the header: For years the criminal justice system has been underfunded. Agreed.
I would also contend that for years: education, the health service, the police, the immigration service, infrastructure and defence have also been underfunded. I've probably missed a few.
What's the Tories answer? Tax cuts.
It's time to face up to reality, we can no longer trying to run first world public services on the cheap. Whichever party wins the next few elections I confidently predict total tax %GDP will be higher in 10 years time than now.
Many will be asking how we have simultaneously a record tax take and broken, underfunded public services. Where is all the money going?
Quite a large sum seems to go to a load of external service providers like Fujitsu who then provide crap in return.
I still can't believe the PO tried to get him removed from the case because of alleged bias.
🌹Labour 42% (-) 🌳Conservatives 27% (-1) 🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1) 🟣Reform UK 9% (+1) 💚Greens 8% (+2) Labour lead of 15 Field work 9/1-11/1
(More in Common)
Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.
"People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."
He's been nowhere near the worst witness so far. He's just been unlucky to be the first one after all the publicity.
Yes, newcomers to watching the Inquiry live should note that Paul Bradshaw is by no means the worst 'investigator' to testify. He was rather more aggressive and a little less stupid than most but otherwise fairly typical, especially in his lack of contrition.
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
Except that as well as being investigator in many of these cases, he was also disclosure officer - and the failure to disclose exculpatory evidence (and more, the deliberate concealment if it) was instrumental in obtaining the unfair convictions. The questioning established (assuming he wasn’t just lying, which didn’t seem to be the case) that he was utterly ignorant of his responsibilities.
Or the lawyers and/or bosses knew he was their disclosure officer so deliberately kept him out of the loop. That is consistent with his testimony in the linked video.
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.
In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?
This is what he wrote in his appraisal. Contrast with what he told the Inquiry today.
Another one suffering from sloping shoulders syndrome.
Yes, his recall of past events seemed quite detailed and definite (“I never used that language” etc) when it suited him, and utterly absent (“I don’t recall” etc) when it suited him.
You don't say!
Oh, it’s standard PO witness procedure by now. But even if you were to assume he wasn’t being disingenuous, he was plainly utterly inadequate for his role.
The other extraordinary thing to me was the business of plea bargains. It’s absurd on its face that a private prosecutor, who is also investigator and alleged victim should be able to negotiate any plea bargain.
The conflicts of interest (even assuming a degree of honesty which doesn’t exist in this case) are absolutely blatant.
Under questioning, even Bradshaw admitted “we probably shouldn’t have done that” - while of course still passing the buck to the lawyers he was working with.
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.
In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?
This is what he wrote in his appraisal. Contrast with what he told the Inquiry today.
Another one suffering from sloping shoulders syndrome.
Is perjury still a crime in UK? OR is that decision worst left to PO lawyers?
Perjury is still a crime. For public policy and practicality reasons it is a crime, while extremely often committed, rarely pursued. Archer and Aitken are two notable cases in modern times. IIRC correctly it is one of the crimes which in English law requires corroboration - ie the evidence of one witness unsupported is insufficient.
Turns out a Yorkshireman who read Law at Cambridge is one of the real heroes in life and sums up the scum at the Post Office.
Lord Justice Fraser, the judge who stopped the operator of Horizon system
Rulings and regulations of man who presided over the Bates and Others v Post Office Ltd case
As part of the legal wrangling the Post Office lawyers tried to get Lord Fraser taken off the case in a last-ditch attempt to salvage their chances of winning, but failed.
From the header: For years the criminal justice system has been underfunded. Agreed.
I would also contend that for years: education, the health service, the police, the immigration service, infrastructure and defence have also been underfunded. I've probably missed a few.
What's the Tories answer? Tax cuts.
It's time to face up to reality, we can no longer trying to run first world public services on the cheap. Whichever party wins the next few elections I confidently predict total tax %GDP will be higher in 10 years time than now.
Many will be asking how we have simultaneously a record tax take and broken, underfunded public services. Where is all the money going?
Quite a large sum seems to go to a load of external service providers like Fujitsu who then provide crap in return.
I still can't believe the PO tried to get him removed from the case because of alleged bias.
Again, shuffling judges in perversion of justice is hallmark of criminal organizations, along with jury-tampering.
Turns out a Yorkshireman who read Law at Cambridge is one of the real heroes in life and sums up the scum at the Post Office.
Lord Justice Fraser, the judge who stopped the operator of Horizon system
Rulings and regulations of man who presided over the Bates and Others v Post Office Ltd case
As part of the legal wrangling the Post Office lawyers tried to get Lord Fraser taken off the case in a last-ditch attempt to salvage their chances of winning, but failed.
From the header: For years the criminal justice system has been underfunded. Agreed.
I would also contend that for years: education, the health service, the police, the immigration service, infrastructure and defence have also been underfunded. I've probably missed a few.
What's the Tories answer? Tax cuts.
It's time to face up to reality, we can no longer trying to run first world public services on the cheap. Whichever party wins the next few elections I confidently predict total tax %GDP will be higher in 10 years time than now.
Many will be asking how we have simultaneously a record tax take and broken, underfunded public services. Where is all the money going?
Quite a large sum seems to go to a load of external service providers like Fujitsu who then provide crap in return.
I still can't believe the PO tried to get him removed from the case because of alleged bias.
🌹Labour 42% (-) 🌳Conservatives 27% (-1) 🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1) 🟣Reform UK 9% (+1) 💚Greens 8% (+2) Labour lead of 15 Field work 9/1-11/1
Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.
"People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."
🌹Labour 42% (-) 🌳Conservatives 27% (-1) 🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1) 🟣Reform UK 9% (+1) 💚Greens 8% (+2) Labour lead of 15 Field work 9/1-11/1
Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.
"People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."
🌹Labour 42% (-) 🌳Conservatives 27% (-1) 🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1) 🟣Reform UK 9% (+1) 💚Greens 8% (+2) Labour lead of 15 Field work 9/1-11/1
Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.
"People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
Except that as well as being investigator in many of these cases, he was also disclosure officer - and the failure to disclose exculpatory evidence (and more, the deliberate concealment if it) was instrumental in obtaining the unfair convictions. The questioning established (assuming he wasn’t just lying, which didn’t seem to be the case) that he was utterly ignorant of his responsibilities.
Or the lawyers and/or bosses knew he was their disclosure officer so deliberately kept him out of the loop. That is consistent with his testimony in the linked video.
That doesn’t really excuse him, though. He was effectively saying he had a responsibility he was happy to ignore. While at other times during his evidence insisting on his professionalism.
I’d agree that the lawyers have even less excuse for their actions.
🌹Labour 42% (-) 🌳Conservatives 27% (-1) 🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1) 🟣Reform UK 9% (+1) 💚Greens 8% (+2) Labour lead of 15 Field work 9/1-11/1
Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.
"People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.
In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?
This is what he wrote in his appraisal. Contrast with what he told the Inquiry today.
Another one suffering from sloping shoulders syndrome.
Is perjury still a crime in UK? OR is that decision worst left to PO lawyers?
Perjury is still a crime. For public policy and practicality reasons it is a crime, while extremely often committed, rarely pursued. Archer and Aitken are two notable cases in modern times. IIRC correctly it is one of the crimes which in English law requires corroboration - ie the evidence of one witness unsupported is insufficient.
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
Except that as well as being investigator in many of these cases, he was also disclosure officer - and the failure to disclose exculpatory evidence (and more, the deliberate concealment if it) was instrumental in obtaining the unfair convictions. The questioning established (assuming he wasn’t just lying, which didn’t seem to be the case) that he was utterly ignorant of his responsibilities.
Or the lawyers and/or bosses knew he was their disclosure officer so deliberately kept him out of the loop. That is consistent with his testimony in the linked video.
Are courts in UK inclined to give much credence, to testimony of witnesses whose veracity is demonstrated to be dubious?
"The dilemma: if every convicted subpostmaster in the last 25 years applied to the Criminal Cases Review Commission (“CCRC“) to have their convictions reviewed and referred to the Court of Appeal, even if they started tomorrow, it would taken an inordinately long time to deal with them, even if the Post Office did not object"
This also seems bad in the general case, ie if there's now compelling evidence that you didn't commit the crime you're in prison for then you shouldn't spending ages stuck in there waiting for the review board. Is it impossible to make a non-political process that goes quicker for slam-dunk cases, so they can let you out for now then deal with officially overturning the conviction later? If it turns out the slow process finds that you were guilty after all then they can always rearrest you.
Looking at the Criminal Cases Review Commissioners (under "our team") shows the NU10k given the number of part-time roles each commissioner has across different sectors. https://ccrc.gov.uk/who-we-are/
He's been nowhere near the worst witness so far. He's just been unlucky to be the first one after all the publicity.
Yes, newcomers to watching the Inquiry live should note that Paul Bradshaw is by no means the worst 'investigator' to testify. He was rather more aggressive and a little less stupid than most but otherwise fairly typical, especially in his lack of contrition.
Less stupid ? Blimey.
I haven’t listened before today. Earlier witnesses must have been hard to get coherent thoughts out of.
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.
In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?
This is what he wrote in his appraisal. Contrast with what he told the Inquiry today.
Another one suffering from sloping shoulders syndrome.
Is perjury still a crime in UK? OR is that decision worst left to PO lawyers?
Perjury is still a crime. For public policy and practicality reasons it is a crime, while extremely often committed, rarely pursued. Archer and Aitken are two notable cases in modern times. IIRC correctly it is one of the crimes which in English law requires corroboration - ie the evidence of one witness unsupported is insufficient.
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
Except that as well as being investigator in many of these cases, he was also disclosure officer - and the failure to disclose exculpatory evidence (and more, the deliberate concealment if it) was instrumental in obtaining the unfair convictions. The questioning established (assuming he wasn’t just lying, which didn’t seem to be the case) that he was utterly ignorant of his responsibilities.
Or the lawyers and/or bosses knew he was their disclosure officer so deliberately kept him out of the loop. That is consistent with his testimony in the linked video.
Are courts in UK inclined to give much credence, to testimony of witnesses whose veracity is demonstrated to be dubious?
In USA not so much IIRC.
You mean Trump's rant today in NYC might not get that much credence?
He's been nowhere near the worst witness so far. He's just been unlucky to be the first one after all the publicity.
Yes, newcomers to watching the Inquiry live should note that Paul Bradshaw is by no means the worst 'investigator' to testify. He was rather more aggressive and a little less stupid than most but otherwise fairly typical, especially in his lack of contrition.
Less stupid ? Blimey.
I haven’t listened before today. Earlier witnesses must have been hard to get coherent thoughts out of.
Try watching Jarnail Singh / Elaine Cottam / Natasha Bernard / Rod Ismay.
It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.
Because he's their man.
Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.
I just think the attacks are silly.
The PO attacks on Starmer are very silly, it makes all the posters look very immature and a bit too pointless in their postings. Starmer didn’t know about these cases, and do we know yet how horizon related they even are, so the only attack line is he should have kmown, which, yes, in the land of realism is just plain stupid. UNLESS of course the smoking gun is found that STARMER DID KNOW ABOUT THEM. that would be very different.
However the Saville question, though still not all that damaging to Starmer overall, is more substantial, because Starmer knew about the file being closed - we take it 2nd hand that made him cross. But it wasn’t reopened.
The PO attacks on Starmer have disabled one of his goto phrases. “I was DPP” no longer carries the idea of a upright lawman shooting down the baddies, but has ‘locking up postmaster’ connotations
That was surely the point of it? He’s not going to racing over it, but he’s already less sure footed on his tenure as DPP
This stuff is just so desperate.
So you don't think SKS had any questions to answer then?
He's answered the questions he needed to answer. Was he aware of any CPS PO prosecutions. No. Should he have been aware of every prosecution (circa 500,000 of them?) during his time as DDP? Again, no - simply not possible.
He said 4 million cases apparently. I suppose isam will be here in a few microseconds to suggest the discrepancy in the numbers is suspicious.
Though it seems a bit unfair if isam is going to suggest Keir Starmer should have been aware of 4 million things, when isam is obsessed by just one ...
Somebody’s a Sir Keir fan ❤️
You seriously looking us in the eyes and saying Starmer can’t use his CPS credentials anymore becuase this PO stuff has sullied all that?
On PB everything gets kept, Isam, and mercilessly used against you. What might sound okay in the middle of a fuckmule can be credibility shedding posted to laugh at you in two years time. Take the example of Big G and Beergate 🫣. Actually beergate, out of PO, Saville, is the one of the three which actually hurt Starmer, because everyone in the village pub thought it a stretch to call that a working meeting, and what insane jumble of gathering rules were for workers was or wasn’t on that day was a complete blur to everyone in hindsight. But it was still not enough to really hurt Starmer.
I suggest smarter thing you can attack him with - is he one of us? what’s his K for? Does everyone who holds the office automatically get a K, regardless if the CPS was utter shite under them or merely half shite? The likes of the PO head who handed hers back, people like crozier as well who’s friends at ITV ensured he was airbrushed out of the drama, they don’t just get gongs, they are on a roundabout of high paying jobs massive bonuses for the girls and boys, no matter what evil or utter dipsticks they actually are. This is where Starmer comes in, did he get his top job on merit, his K on merit, his statutory instrument pension on merit, or is he one of them not one of us - part of the unmeritocracy?
Hint hint nudge nudge is better line of hollowing someone out, than attack lines just so dependant on a proper smoking gun, being the daft thing you and casino done last couple of days. The only harm has been to your own credibility.
What credibility?
I’ve given you loads of likes since you’ve been back! You were posting pithy posts with an original and thoughtful take on things, before you got lost down this rabbit hole of trying to change political history with PB posts.
I think now what works on social media is like dressing yourself - stick to what’s always best for you, rather than going louder for attention.
…says she whilst wearing a pink pig fleece onesie.
Yet another Sovereign Citizen goes on rampage in court (YouTube footage shortly)
New York Times - Trump Rebukes Judge in Court; Judge Tells His Lawyers ‘Control Your Client’ Donald Trump delivered abrupt remarks in his own defense on the final day of his civil fraud trial, insulting the judge to his face and rebuking the attorney general who brought the case.
Dear the Press: The REASON Trump launches these tirades, is bc he knows you're all INCAPABLE of reporting on the evidence that came before it. Simply absolute incapable of reporting on anything but his tirade, allowing him to drown out facts. https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1745511573198610717
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.
In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?
This is what he wrote in his appraisal. Contrast with what he told the Inquiry today.
Another one suffering from sloping shoulders syndrome.
Is perjury still a crime in UK? OR is that decision worst left to PO lawyers?
Perjury is still a crime. For public policy and practicality reasons it is a crime, while extremely often committed, rarely pursued. Archer and Aitken are two notable cases in modern times. IIRC correctly it is one of the crimes which in English law requires corroboration - ie the evidence of one witness unsupported is insufficient.
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
Except that as well as being investigator in many of these cases, he was also disclosure officer - and the failure to disclose exculpatory evidence (and more, the deliberate concealment if it) was instrumental in obtaining the unfair convictions. The questioning established (assuming he wasn’t just lying, which didn’t seem to be the case) that he was utterly ignorant of his responsibilities.
Or the lawyers and/or bosses knew he was their disclosure officer so deliberately kept him out of the loop. That is consistent with his testimony in the linked video.
Are courts in UK inclined to give much credence, to testimony of witnesses whose veracity is demonstrated to be dubious?
In USA not so much IIRC.
You mean Trump's rant today in NYC might not get that much credence?
Not in court. However, Trump's performance today was for purposes of gingering up his turnout Monday night from MAGA-maniacs.
Who may be starting to wonder, if he's really worth risking frostbite for?
"Veteran Labour MP Tony Lloyd reveals he's now suffering from 'untreatable' leukaemia as he leaves hospital to 'spend the time I have left with my family'"
It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.
Because he's their man.
Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.
I just think the attacks are silly.
The PO attacks on Starmer are very silly, it makes all the posters look very immature and a bit too pointless in their postings. Starmer didn’t know about these cases, and do we know yet how horizon related they even are, so the only attack line is he should have kmown, which, yes, in the land of realism is just plain stupid. UNLESS of course the smoking gun is found that STARMER DID KNOW ABOUT THEM. that would be very different.
However the Saville question, though still not all that damaging to Starmer overall, is more substantial, because Starmer knew about the file being closed - we take it 2nd hand that made him cross. But it wasn’t reopened.
The PO attacks on Starmer have disabled one of his goto phrases. “I was DPP” no longer carries the idea of a upright lawman shooting down the baddies, but has ‘locking up postmaster’ connotations
That was surely the point of it? He’s not going to racing over it, but he’s already less sure footed on his tenure as DPP
This stuff is just so desperate.
So you don't think SKS had any questions to answer then?
He's answered the questions he needed to answer. Was he aware of any CPS PO prosecutions. No. Should he have been aware of every prosecution (circa 500,000 of them?) during his time as DDP? Again, no - simply not possible.
He said 4 million cases apparently. I suppose isam will be here in a few microseconds to suggest the discrepancy in the numbers is suspicious.
Though it seems a bit unfair if isam is going to suggest Keir Starmer should have been aware of 4 million things, when isam is obsessed by just one ...
Somebody’s a Sir Keir fan ❤️
You seriously looking us in the eyes and saying Starmer can’t use his CPS credentials anymore becuase this PO stuff has sullied all that?
On PB everything gets kept, Isam, and mercilessly used against you. What might sound okay in the middle of a fuckmule can be credibility shedding posted to laugh at you in two years time. Take the example of Big G and Beergate 🫣. Actually beergate, out of PO, Saville, is the one of the three which actually hurt Starmer, because everyone in the village pub thought it a stretch to call that a working meeting, and what insane jumble of gathering rules were for workers was or wasn’t on that day was a complete blur to everyone in hindsight. But it was still not enough to really hurt Starmer.
I suggest smarter thing you can attack him with - is he one of us? what’s his K for? Does everyone who holds the office automatically get a K, regardless if the CPS was utter shite under them or merely half shite? The likes of the PO head who handed hers back, people like crozier as well who’s friends at ITV ensured he was airbrushed out of the drama, they don’t just get gongs, they are on a roundabout of high paying jobs massive bonuses for the girls and boys, no matter what evil or utter dipsticks they actually are. This is where Starmer comes in, did he get his top job on merit, his K on merit, his statutory instrument pension on merit, or is he one of them not one of us - part of the unmeritocracy?
Hint hint nudge nudge is better line of hollowing someone out, than attack lines just so dependant on a proper smoking gun, being the daft thing you and casino done last couple of days. The only harm has been to your own credibility.
What credibility?
I’ve given you loads of likes since you’ve been back! You were posting pithy posts with an original and thoughtful take on things, before you got lost down this rabbit hole of trying to change political history with PB posts.
I think now what works on social media is like dressing yourself - stick to what’s always best for you, rather than going louder for attention.
…says she whilst wearing a pink pig fleece onesie.
I don’t know about that, I just post what I think, I always have.
Had I not been banned at the time I’d have been worse than Big G about Currygate
Despite inflation coming down, CoL by far the most important issue for most. Immigration drops to 4th place, displaced by climate.
Perception of inflation seems to be very laggy. (Apparently there's polling/survey data showing this.) Part of it is that things you don't buy very often have also gone up, so for example if you only fly once every December you won't experience airline ticket inflation until December, even if the prices went up in January and stopped going up in June.
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
That seems to be the issue throughout this, doesn't it? So many people claiming they weren't there; they weren't involved, the mistakes / lies were all someone else's. Some of them have to be lying.
In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?
This is what he wrote in his appraisal. Contrast with what he told the Inquiry today.
Another one suffering from sloping shoulders syndrome.
Is perjury still a crime in UK? OR is that decision worst left to PO lawyers?
Perjury is still a crime. For public policy and practicality reasons it is a crime, while extremely often committed, rarely pursued. Archer and Aitken are two notable cases in modern times. IIRC correctly it is one of the crimes which in English law requires corroboration - ie the evidence of one witness unsupported is insufficient.
If Bradshaw was as uninvolved as he repeatedly said, then the questioner was at best wasting time and at worst trying to bully him into a false admission, just as the Post Office was alleged to have done with SPMs.
Except that as well as being investigator in many of these cases, he was also disclosure officer - and the failure to disclose exculpatory evidence (and more, the deliberate concealment if it) was instrumental in obtaining the unfair convictions. The questioning established (assuming he wasn’t just lying, which didn’t seem to be the case) that he was utterly ignorant of his responsibilities.
Or the lawyers and/or bosses knew he was their disclosure officer so deliberately kept him out of the loop. That is consistent with his testimony in the linked video.
Are courts in UK inclined to give much credence, to testimony of witnesses whose veracity is demonstrated to be dubious?
In USA not so much IIRC.
You mean Trump's rant today in NYC might not get that much credence?
Not in court. However, Trump's performance today was for purposes of gingering up his turnout Monday night from MAGA-maniacs.
Who may be starting to wonder, if he's really worth risking frostbite for?
Maybe the Judge will decide to, having given Trump's rant credence, clear - water revival that will be.
🌹Labour 42% (-) 🌳Conservatives 27% (-1) 🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1) 🟣Reform UK 9% (+1) 💚Greens 8% (+2) Labour lead of 15 Field work 9/1-11/1
Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.
"People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."
One thing I like of this pollster is how they break down by generation, and also try to squeeze the initial "Don't Knows" into a choice.
Lab ahead with all age groups under 75, even boomers. If forced to choose then DKs break fairly evenly, but narrowly for Labour.
Strewth. If don't knows are breaking for Labour (even slightly) then that's devastating. If the crossover age is 75+ then...well.
It's all in the data tables.
They do weight, but as they seem to get a good sample actually do not adjust much. I like a clean sample.
The 2019 Conservative vote splits 62% Conservative, 16% Labour and 15% Reform which isn't out of line with other pollsters. Basically, 40% the 2019 Conservative vote has gone, mainly to Labour and Reform.
It's hilarious how some people on here can't abide any criticism of SKS.
Because he's their man.
Starmer fails my personal pub test, I admire what he’s achieved with the Labour Party, but he leaves me personally mehhed.
I just think the attacks are silly.
The PO attacks on Starmer are very silly, it makes all the posters look very immature and a bit too pointless in their postings. Starmer didn’t know about these cases, and do we know yet how horizon related they even are, so the only attack line is he should have kmown, which, yes, in the land of realism is just plain stupid. UNLESS of course the smoking gun is found that STARMER DID KNOW ABOUT THEM. that would be very different.
However the Saville question, though still not all that damaging to Starmer overall, is more substantial, because Starmer knew about the file being closed - we take it 2nd hand that made him cross. But it wasn’t reopened.
The PO attacks on Starmer have disabled one of his goto phrases. “I was DPP” no longer carries the idea of a upright lawman shooting down the baddies, but has ‘locking up postmaster’ connotations
That was surely the point of it? He’s not going to racing over it, but he’s already less sure footed on his tenure as DPP
This stuff is just so desperate.
So you don't think SKS had any questions to answer then?
He's answered the questions he needed to answer. Was he aware of any CPS PO prosecutions. No. Should he have been aware of every prosecution (circa 500,000 of them?) during his time as DDP? Again, no - simply not possible.
He said 4 million cases apparently. I suppose isam will be here in a few microseconds to suggest the discrepancy in the numbers is suspicious.
Though it seems a bit unfair if isam is going to suggest Keir Starmer should have been aware of 4 million things, when isam is obsessed by just one ...
Somebody’s a Sir Keir fan ❤️
You seriously looking us in the eyes and saying Starmer can’t use his CPS credentials anymore becuase this PO stuff has sullied all that?
On PB everything gets kept, Isam, and mercilessly used against you. What might sound okay in the middle of a fuckmule can be credibility shedding posted to laugh at you in two years time. Take the example of Big G and Beergate 🫣. Actually beergate, out of PO, Saville, is the one of the three which actually hurt Starmer, because everyone in the village pub thought it a stretch to call that a working meeting, and what insane jumble of gathering rules were for workers was or wasn’t on that day was a complete blur to everyone in hindsight. But it was still not enough to really hurt Starmer.
I suggest smarter thing you can attack him with - is he one of us? what’s his K for? Does everyone who holds the office automatically get a K, regardless if the CPS was utter shite under them or merely half shite? The likes of the PO head who handed hers back, people like crozier as well who’s friends at ITV ensured he was airbrushed out of the drama, they don’t just get gongs, they are on a roundabout of high paying jobs massive bonuses for the girls and boys, no matter what evil or utter dipsticks they actually are. This is where Starmer comes in, did he get his top job on merit, his K on merit, his statutory instrument pension on merit, or is he one of them not one of us - part of the unmeritocracy?
Hint hint nudge nudge is better line of hollowing someone out, than attack lines just so dependant on a proper smoking gun, being the daft thing you and casino done last couple of days. The only harm has been to your own credibility.
What credibility?
I’ve given you loads of likes since you’ve been back! You were posting pithy posts with an original and thoughtful take on things, before you got lost down this rabbit hole of trying to change political history with PB posts.
I think now what works on social media is like dressing yourself - stick to what’s always best for you, rather than going louder for attention.
…says she whilst wearing a pink pig fleece onesie.
I don’t know about that, I just post what I think, I always have.
Had I not been banned at the time I’d have been worse than Big G about Currygate
Rishi Sunak WILL NOT recall Parliament tomorrow to discuss the British military intervention against Houthi positions in Yemen, which is expected to take place tonight
It means that there will be no debate or discussion in Parliament until Monday
🌹Labour 42% (-) 🌳Conservatives 27% (-1) 🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1) 🟣Reform UK 9% (+1) 💚Greens 8% (+2) Labour lead of 15 Field work 9/1-11/1
Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.
"People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."
One thing I like of this pollster is how they break down by generation, and also try to squeeze the initial "Don't Knows" into a choice.
Lab ahead with all age groups under 75, even boomers. If forced to choose then DKs break fairly evenly, but narrowly for Labour.
Strewth. If don't knows are breaking for Labour (even slightly) then that's devastating. If the crossover age is 75+ then...well.
Yeah, but, no. All the don’t knows breaking Tory might vote on the day, whilst all those favouring Labour stay at home, might not remotely be even split from each.
Something has happened reasonably recently for large number of voters to decide conclusively against Tories. I think it might have been Conference Season. I think Radical Rishi Unleashed & The Great HS2 Surrender has gone down badly with voters. Conservative drift downward seems to stem from that week?
Rishi Sunak WILL NOT recall Parliament tomorrow to discuss the British military intervention against Houthi positions in Yemen, which is expected to take place tonight
It means that there will be no debate or discussion in Parliament until Monday
Picking up disquiet about this already
I support it. I think they are backed by Iran, but not Iranian puppets, just militant for their Gazan brotheren after winning their own recent war. I didn’t realise they had recently won control, despite being Shia minority and against Saudis backed by our help. It could be seen as a diplomatic failure, but then when you were helping Saudis blow them up in a sectarian conflict, they are less likely to listen to us or touch any money we offer them.
I still regard those pushing hardest for widening and escalation of the conflict are the hawks in Israeli government, rather than the Arab World.
Does it mean Yokes will visit in a minute to explain what is really going on?
Someone asked for a more recent Iowa poll. Here you are: "A poll released Thursday of Iowa voters found that, among Republicans, former president Donald Trump maintains a dominant lead in the days ahead of the caucuses. But it is the first to find former U.N. ambassador Nikki Haley opening up a clear lead over Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis.
🌹Labour 42% (-) 🌳Conservatives 27% (-1) 🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1) 🟣Reform UK 9% (+1) 💚Greens 8% (+2) Labour lead of 15 Field work 9/1-11/1
(More in Common)
Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.
"People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."
🌹Labour 42% (-) 🌳Conservatives 27% (-1) 🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1) 🟣Reform UK 9% (+1) 💚Greens 8% (+2) Labour lead of 15 Field work 9/1-11/1
(More in Common)
Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.
"People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."
🌹Labour 42% (-) 🌳Conservatives 27% (-1) 🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1) 🟣Reform UK 9% (+1) 💚Greens 8% (+2) Labour lead of 15 Field work 9/1-11/1
Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.
"People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."
One thing I like of this pollster is how they break down by generation, and also try to squeeze the initial "Don't Knows" into a choice.
Lab ahead with all age groups under 75, even boomers. If forced to choose then DKs break fairly evenly, but narrowly for Labour.
Strewth. If don't knows are breaking for Labour (even slightly) then that's devastating. If the crossover age is 75+ then...well.
Yeah, but, no. All the don’t knows breaking Tory might vote on the day, whilst all those favouring Labour stay at home, might not remotely be even split from each.
Something has happened reasonably recently for large number of voters to decide conclusively against Tories. I think it might have been Conference Season. I think Radical Rishi Unleashed & The Great HS2 Surrender has gone down badly with voters. Conservative drift downward seems to stem from that week?
Cancelling HS2 resonated across normal people, non political people recognised it for what it was, telling you all you needed to know about how important the north was to the Tories.
🌹Labour 42% (-) 🌳Conservatives 27% (-1) 🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1) 🟣Reform UK 9% (+1) 💚Greens 8% (+2) Labour lead of 15 Field work 9/1-11/1
(More in Common)
Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.
"People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."
Comments
StarTrek OS - Computer versus Captain Kirk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVfFWs4BKBE&list=PL4j5t8skHLf6D2t9jKZ2jmD3ABtnu37mT&index=2
During lockdown in December 2020 we had a virtual Christmas party and my team decided the best thing to do after the quizzes and awards was to watch Die Hard and eat Hawaiian pizzas.
https://www.reuters.com/world/french-military-escorting-french-ships-through-red-sea-naval-commander-2024-01-11/
So I would not necessarily expect them to sign a joint statement. It does not mean they're not working and coordinating with those other countries.
I might also suggest you listen to that short clip posted earlier, to see the way the PO tried to use bogus charges to get people to cough up to other charges. "We'll drop this (bogus) charge if you accept this charge we cannot prove..." (AIUI from the clip)
If a postmaster was prosecuted and the Post Office was not involved with the investiation, then it's obviously nothing to do with this proposed scheme.
@breeallegretti
Exc: I’m told PM Rishi Sunak has approved the civil service to begin access talks.
Ball now in Labour’s court - they will get to formally request them.
https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/1745522695444287957?s=20
'Sue Gray, have you met Simon Case before?'
Some of these people have worked for me for over a decade and/or moved firms/half way across the country to work for me again.
Plus they are used to my sense of humour which means no awkward chats for me with HR.
I know this may shock PBers but my sense of humour is a bit wild.
In fact, so many people seem to be so utterly uninvolved with everything that went on, I wonder what they did spend their time doing?
In this case, a series of witnesses claim that Bradshaw lied to them, hounded them, and mistreated them. See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67941754
Another one suffering from sloping shoulders syndrome.
On PB everything gets kept, Isam, and mercilessly used against you. What might sound okay in the middle of a fuckmule can be credibility shedding posted to laugh at you in two years time. Take the example of Big G and Beergate 🫣. Actually beergate, out of PO, Saville, is the one of the three which actually hurt Starmer, because everyone in the village pub thought it a stretch to call that a working meeting, and what insane jumble of gathering rules were for workers was or wasn’t on that day was a complete blur to everyone in hindsight. But it was still not enough to really hurt Starmer.
I suggest smarter thing you can attack him with - is he one of us?
what’s his K for? Does everyone who holds the office automatically get a K, regardless if the CPS was utter shite under them or merely half shite? The likes of the PO head who handed hers back, people like crozier as well who’s friends at ITV ensured he was airbrushed out of the drama, they don’t just get gongs, they are on a roundabout of high paying jobs massive bonuses for the girls and boys, no matter what evil or utter dipsticks they actually are. This is where Starmer comes in, did he get his top job on merit, his K on merit, his statutory instrument pension on merit, or is he one of them not one of us - part of the unmeritocracy?
Hint hint nudge nudge is better line of hollowing someone out, than attack lines just so dependant on a proper smoking gun, being the daft thing you and casino done last couple of days. The only harm has been to your own credibility.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/jan/11/why-home-office-visa-plans-nail-in-coffin-uk-hospitality
'On the proviso that Gusto could show recruiting domestically was impossible, the company could pay the government £3,000 a time for a licence to hire chefs from overseas on a temporary visa.
Bravissimo, staff shortage solved.
“In the last 18 months we have recruited 30 chefs and have spent over £200,000 on this project,” says Snell. “It has been the difference between keeping restaurants open or closed.”
That lifeline – and the pizza – is now under threat from a Conservative government policy that many in hospitality feel prioritises political calculation over economic realism.'
Pineapple on pizza is no way as bad as sultanas in curry/biryani!
Feathers McGraw might be under suspicion for imbalanced books flagged up by Horizon, as well as substituting genuine cash with his counterfeit notes into the Post Office banking system and operating an illegal mail order Thai
bride immigration business from a Royal Mail pillar box. So several charges, some linked to Horizon, other associated charges, not necessarily. So they better ask the CPS how best to proceed.
For goodness sake, hang Starmer if you like. I don't care.
(As a historical footnote, the IDF of 1967 conquered Gaza within 48 hours).
Their general response to me laughing at/making innuendos is either
'You're such a fucking child'
or
'I can tell you're a former public schoolboy Tory twat.'
But it doesn't surprise me. I have seen it in the City. That level of denial can last a very long time, especially if it is condoned or explicitly encouraged by those at the top. A sort of ethical blindness develops.
It takes a near death experience, determined pressure by external stakeholders and a change of management to turn such a culture around. I don't think, based on what I've seen, that the Post Office is anywhere near where it needs to be if it is to get out of the moral swamp it is in now.
Incidentally, an excellent interview with James Arbuthnot in today's Times - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/how-lord-arbuthnot-became-post-office-victims-most-trusted-voice-5h3vkzxtz.
Very well worth reading.
If so, would it be possible to stop those shipments, or at least reduce them, by mining a harbor or two?
(You might not want to do that even if possible, if, as I suspect, the Houthis are not self-sufficient in food. I don't object to cutting off food to people who are shooting at us and our friends, but I recognize that it might cause diplomatic problems.)
The questioning established (assuming he wasn’t just lying, which didn’t seem to be the case) that he was utterly ignorant of his responsibilities.
Hire the brightest and best and I can take credit for all their hard work.
This looks very serious
This also seems bad in the general case, ie if there's now compelling evidence that you didn't commit the crime you're in prison for then you shouldn't spending ages stuck in there waiting for the review board. Is it impossible to make a non-political process that goes quicker for slam-dunk cases, so they can let you out for now then deal with officially overturning the conviction later? If it turns out the slow process finds that you were guilty after all then they can always rearrest you.
Barren Rocks of Aden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9Q7bO34DeM
This is a direct result of the Hamas raid into Israel on October 7th and something for which they and their fellow travellers will have been hoping. An open western assault in the Middle East further polarises and radicalises opinion in the Arab world. I'm not 100% sure the Houthis represent a huge threat to shipping (or at least one which can't be managed).
And it’s just too costly to rely on western vessels shooting them down - the cost of the intercepts alone is at least an order of magnitude greater than the Iranian missiles.
The cost and practicality of permanently stationing a task force there is even more problematic,
https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745539594987192383?t=i22lPT0OZv2yiXr6ohLodQ&s=19
🌹Labour 42% (-)
🌳Conservatives 27% (-1)
🔶Liberal Democrats 10% (-1)
🟣Reform UK 9% (+1)
💚Greens 8% (+2)
Labour lead of 15
Field work 9/1-11/1
(More in Common)
Bad news for Davey, in this first poll with the PO Scandal leading the news.
"People think Ed Davey should resign 42%-19% - again it isn't unusual for people to say a politician (even fictional ones should resign). But more worryingly for the Lib Dem leader his own supporters are split 28%-33% on the question of if he should go."
https://twitter.com/LukeTryl/status/1745538792335839305?t=pZTzHMeXMFjPwcM2jelWBQ&s=19
One thing I like of this pollster is how they break down by generation, and also try to squeeze the initial "Don't Knows" into a choice.
Lab ahead with all age groups under 75, even boomers. If forced to choose then DKs break fairly evenly, but narrowly for Labour.
But even if you were to assume he wasn’t being disingenuous, he was plainly utterly inadequate for his role.
The other extraordinary thing to me was the business of plea bargains.
It’s absurd on its face that a private prosecutor, who is also investigator and alleged victim should be able to negotiate any plea bargain.
The conflicts of interest (even assuming a degree of honesty which doesn’t exist in this case) are absolutely blatant.
Under questioning, even Bradshaw admitted “we probably shouldn’t have done that” - while of course still passing the buck to the lawyers he was working with.
For examples, Trump and PO.
If don't knows are breaking for Labour (even slightly) then that's devastating.
If the crossover age is 75+ then...well.
While at other times during his evidence insisting on his professionalism.
I’d agree that the lawyers have even less excuse for their actions.
They do weight, but as they seem to get a good sample actually do not adjust much. I like a clean sample.
In USA not so much IIRC.
https://ccrc.gov.uk/who-we-are/
Blimey.
I haven’t listened before today. Earlier witnesses must have been hard to get coherent thoughts out of.
https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos
I think now what works on social media is like dressing yourself - stick to what’s always best for you, rather than going louder for attention.
…says she whilst wearing a pink pig fleece onesie.
https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1745511573198610717
Who may be starting to wonder, if he's really worth risking frostbite for?
More likely though an announcement that the Tories will 'Prevent People Being Forced To Transition Against Their Will!'
"Veteran Labour MP Tony Lloyd reveals he's now suffering from 'untreatable' leukaemia as he leaves hospital to 'spend the time I have left with my family'"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12952011/Veteran-Labour-MP-Tony-Lloyd-reveals-hes-suffering-untreatable-blood-cancer-leaves-hospital-spend-time-left-family.html
Had I not been banned at the time I’d have been worse than Big G about Currygate
A bombshell question by Justice Engoron questioning evidence of Eric Trump and Don Jr.'s intent.
Q: “What evidence do you have — I haven’t seen it — that they knew that there was fraud?”
Amer responds there's no "stick-your-head-in-the-sand" defense.
https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1745558979739099173
BREAKING:
Rishi Sunak WILL NOT recall Parliament tomorrow to discuss the British military intervention against Houthi positions in Yemen, which is expected to take place tonight
It means that there will be no debate or discussion in Parliament until Monday
Picking up disquiet about this already
Something has happened reasonably recently for large number of voters to decide conclusively against Tories. I think it might have been Conference Season. I think Radical Rishi Unleashed & The Great HS2 Surrender has gone down badly with voters. Conservative drift downward seems to stem from that week?
I think they are backed by Iran, but not Iranian puppets, just militant for their Gazan brotheren after winning their own recent war. I didn’t realise they had recently won control, despite being Shia minority and against Saudis backed by our help. It could be seen as a diplomatic failure, but then when you were helping Saudis blow them up in a sectarian conflict, they are less likely to listen to us or touch any money we offer them.
I still regard those pushing hardest for widening and escalation of the conflict are the hawks in Israeli government, rather than the Arab World.
Does it mean Yokes will visit in a minute to explain what is really going on?
This would suggest to me that the few people who do raise it as an important issue are on the Trans rights side.
The Suffolk University poll of 500 likely caucus-goers finds 54 percent saying Trump is their first choice, followed by Haley at 20 percent, DeSantis at 13 percent and Vivek Ramaswamy at 6 percent."
source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/01/11/iowa-poll-nikki-haley-ron-desantis/
Caveat: Polls of caucuses are -- hard as this may be to believe -- not always as accurate as one would wish.
(Edit: I think I should start a new party - the Tactical Party)