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Can there be anything more symbolic than Monday’s Indy front page? – politicalbetting.com

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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    THIS THREAD HAS PISSED OFF THE PM ONE TOO MANY TIMES.....
  • Jonathan said:

    So with two wars in flight who answers questions in the HoC?

    No-one answers questions in the HoC anymore anyway. Someone else can read the pre-prepared script to the question they wish they had been asked.
    It's not 'pre-prepared'; it's prepared.

    And there'll no doubt be a second-in-command minister in the Commons with responsibilities for FO questions like that, as there was under Carrington.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Everyone's going to suspect that Cammo's real role is as guardian to little Rishi
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    isam said:

    Rightly or wrongly, it is amazing to see the host of a breakfast tv show to talk to a guest like this

    https://x.com/archrose90/status/1723982498646925470?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Balls is box office. He's great on that show. Did you see him take the nutter from Insulate UK down the other day?
  • Andy_JS said:

    When was the last time a major cabinet position was held by someone not in the HoC?

    Baroness Morgan DCMS.
    Lord Mandelson Business Sec/Informal DPM.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    As with all things Sunak, this move is all about getting short-term headlines (in this case, a dead cat distracting from the Suella Sacking) and electoral positioning vs. Labour.

    It's not a move about good government or setting the scene after the next GE. Will be hard to be FSec in the Lords during two wars.

    Once the novelty wears off, this might be a source of ongoing trouble.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    isam said:

    Rightly or wrongly, it is amazing to see the host of a breakfast tv show to talk to a guest like this

    https://x.com/archrose90/status/1723982498646925470?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Hahaha

    I do like Ed Balls. Can we not have him as Mayor of London, over the execrable Khan? Please?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    IanB2 said:

    Everyone's going to suspect that Cammo's real role is as guardian to little Rishi

    Like Terry McCann looked after Arthur Daley?
  • HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    If the Tories tack to the centre with unelected retreads and still lose, the headbangers own the future outright. It’s a big gamble.

    Correct when Brown brought Mandelson back to Cabinet and made him a Lord in late 2008 it was a firm attempt by him to shift his government back to the centre and closer towards New Labour.

    However while Mandelson increased the competence of the government it didn't help Brown at the 2010 general election, Labour still lost with just 29% of the vote. The left of the party were then able to present the defeat as a firm rejection of New Labour and shift the party further left, first with Ed Miliband defeating David Miliband for leader and then with Corbyn becoming leader in 2015.

    Sunak's cabinet with Hunt and Cameron in the top tier is now a clear shift back to the centre and the Cameron era, if however it still leads the Tories to defeat the right and ERG can then portray that as a firm rejection of Cameronism by the voters and then begin to take back control of the party
    That's entirely plausible. Most parties that have been in government drift to the extremes before reverting back to the centre after further defeats. That said, most parties drift to the centre in office, which this one certainly hasn't.

    Obviously, the likes of the ERG and anti-tax nutcases will conveniently overlook the Liz Truss experience.
  • Jonathan said:

    So with two wars in flight who answers questions in the HoC?

    No-one answers questions in the HoC anymore anyway. Someone else can read the pre-prepared script to the question they wish they had been asked.
    It's not 'pre-prepared'; it's prepared.

    And there'll no doubt be a second-in-command minister in the Commons with responsibilities for FO questions like that, as there was under Carrington.
    It is pre-prepared as it is prepared by someone other than the speaker. That is common usage whether popular with old schoolers or not.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    Suella sacked and Dave back would mean I’ve got my fucking party back.

    That may be so, but looking at the smoking wreckage of a formerly functioning, well-run, self-confident country playing it's role at the heart of Europe, a member of the single market with full freedom of movement for its citizens around their own continent, I am not delighted at all.

    Cameron and Osborne precipitated disaster for this country. Austerity and Brexit. What a legacy.
    What's to stop anyone from this country moving anywhere they want in Europe ?

    As far as I know the ports and airports still operate.

    Go around the country and how have things changed since 2010 ? There's more housing and high streets look more run down than previously.

    For all the hyperbole things have changed little for most people - oldies are richer and graduates have more debt, houses are more expensive but jobs are more plentiful.
    "Freedom of Movement" tends to refer to the right of an EU citizen go an exercise economic rights (i.e. live and work) in any member state. It doesn't refer to the ability to spend a week's holiday. As you well know.
    Well yes, but it was only ever a tiny minority who went to work in another EU country. And it is only a minority of those who would want to who now cannot.
    Of the practical difficulties of moving abroad, whether or not freedom of movement applies is small beer. Realistically, 90% are just not going to work in the EU because they are monoglot Anglophones. And of the other 10%, if they have the skills, a way around the bureaucracy will be found, just as it would if they were to emigrate to Australia or New Zealand.
    Huh? Your post starts with "want" and ends with "need". An equally skilled person from the EU will get the job ahead of the person from the UK. Brexit has thus shut the doors on you UK people moving abroad who want to. Put simply, why would an EU employer go through the hassle of getting a work permit for a kid from Dundee or Devon when a kid from Dublin can walk straight in. How does someone from Cardiff who see a business need in Croatia that is not needed in Wales do so now?

    And what about unskilled workers? Imagine a situation where there is a need for unskilled workers elsewhere while there is little need for the same workers here. A situation, I admit, so outlandish that they only made a comedy drama about it in the 1980s.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,662
    Andy_JS said:

    When was the last time a major cabinet position was held by someone not in the HoC?

    Lord Carrington: Foreign Secretary until 5 April 1982.

    For the others:
    The Earl of Rosebery was PM until 22 June 1895
    The Marquess of Normanby was Home Secretary until 13 March 1839
    Lord Denman was the last peer to be CoE (acting) in 1834.

    This update is brought to you by Wiki Research Services Inc.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    This thread has been replaced with James Cleverly
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    Cameron pretending he thinks Brexit is a great idea will be amusing.

    He will of course say as everyone knows I didn't agree with Brexit but it is my job to ensure the UK prospers....good relations....neighbours....all europeans....blah, blah.

    And so much the better to have someone sensible as our FS rather than someone who actually dislikes them. Not that I think Cleverly did, that said.

    First statement if not visit? Has to be Middle East. Expect it to be well-judged.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Sunak sacking Suella, Bad Enoch, Coffey and recruiting a few people who are in possession of more than one brain cell is surprising. I agree with @isam that it will move the needle a bit. A wholesale purge of the populist right.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Sky making the point that Cammo is a sinophile. Will likely improve bilateral relations with the Chinese.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,818
    edited November 2023
    Jonathan said:

    As with all things Sunak, this move is all about getting short-term headlines (in this case, a dead cat distracting from the Suella Sacking) and electoral positioning vs. Labour.

    It's not a move about good government or setting the scene after the next GE. Will be hard to be FSec in the Lords during two wars.

    Once the novelty wears off, this might be a source of ongoing trouble.

    Last month - bring an end to 30 years of centrist consensus as the centre of his conference speech
    This month - Dave please help me win back the centrists

    Suella is correct on one thing, Rishi is weak and rudderless.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,072
    Andy_JS said:

    When was the last time a major cabinet position was held by someone not in the HoC?

    Already answered, @Andy_JS

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4602386#Comment_4602386
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    148grss said:

    Taz said:

    The Football Association has launched an investigation into one of its own council members, who has been forced to apologise for saying that “Adolf Hitler would be proud of Benjamin Netanyahu”.

    Wasim Haq, who joined the FA as a “BAME Football Communities Representative” in 2019, sparked fury after commenting on social media about Israel’s war with Hamas. Haq, who also holds positions with England Golf and the Lawn Tennis Association, deleted the post and denied that he is antisemitic.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fa-to-investigate-council-member-over-hitler-proud-of-netanyahu-post/ar-AA1jOsYU?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=b3844c6ad5c14d9893770c912ecf0d95&ei=11

    I mean Netanyahu literally argues that Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jewish people until a Muslim convinced him to, which might have hurt Adolf's feelings but does try to paint him as a lesser anti-Semitic evil.

    A source for this: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-netanyahu-hitler-idUSKCN0SF15120151021
    Are you actually defending al-Husseini?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Roger said:

    Interesting to know whether Tommy Robinson was the rod that broke the camels back. It was obvious when he was seen with his skinheads clambering over the Cenotaph that the image was one Sunak couldn't live with.Had it happened a year ago it might have made a difference

    Agreed. The only saving grace for Sundance is that he is (rightly) able to hang the whole shameful episode around the next of the odious Suella, who will now quickly disappear into some barren rightwing wilderness like all the rest of the pig-shit thick reactionaries we've had foisted upon us over the last few years.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Actually, with AI you could appoint anyone you like anywhere from history. Thatcher to Home Sec. Richard the Lionheart as Foreign Secretary thanks to his deep experience of the Levant. Vlad “the Impaler” Dracul as Schools Minister. Moominpappa as Business Sec (one for the Mumsnet crowd, there). Anus McPenis - a completely fictitious failed Scottish punk star, invented by me 13 seconds ago - as Deputy PM

    I mean, if you think this is currently possible or even potentially possible - I have a bridge in the metaverse I would love to sell you; it was designed by the same guy who made the most expensive bored ape
    It will soon be very possible

    You’ll be able to create an utterly convincing 3D avatar of historical and fictional characters - convincing, that is, on a screen (which is where we see politicians anyway). Voice cloning will give them totally plausible voices - see the fake Starmer and Obama audios

    AI can then be fed the entire intellectual output of these people - their writing, speeches, messages, memoirs, recorded conversations - and be told: think and act like this person

    Et voila. The dead are born again. You could have a Cabinet comprised of Abe Lincoln, Winston Churchill, Mahatma Gandhi, JFK, Elizabeth I, and Augustus Caesar

    Mad but true
    No, you will have a simulacrum of them that is able to do a good impression - it is much more Madam Tussaud's or the Disney Hall of Presidents then it is a real person or intellect. AI is a parrot (with no disrespect to the actual intelligence of parrots) that can learn a script, and a style of writing, that is all. It cannot create. You can give it the works of Lincoln or Churchill and what it will churn out will maybe sound real, but it won't mean anything.
    I’m torn here

    You’re entirely wrong but you’re SO wrong it’s clear you have no idea what you’re talking about and you wouldn’t even understand if I tried to explain

    So, meh
    Yes, that's such a clear argument you made there, much like your "my IQ is too high for PBers to understand me" position and the constant sourcing of Oli London - it makes it very clear that your opinions are very well informed.
    The IQ thing is true, I’ve looked into it. If you have an IQ north of 140 (eg, me) you will think in a way that is not only different to others but indecipherable to many. Because the smarter person is about five chess moves ahead, people lower down the rankings literally don’t understand what you’re on about and may never get it

    The theory is at its most interesting when the stupider person has a higher than average intelligence but nothing exceptional - 115 say (ie, you). These people can vaguely grasp what the smarter person is maybe on about but they resist it, because they don’t understand the logical leaps, so it challenges them and makes them uneasy

    The dumb person (under 100 IQ) does NOT resist because they simply accept the smarter person is smarter, and don’t bother worrying about it

    This not only explains much of PB, it actually explains much of human history. For instance, it explains why ludicrously off-the-dial geniuses (IQ over 165) often fail in life (despite being so gifted). They appear SO alien and so inexplicable, others shun them, and these megabrains get angrily frustrated at the slowness of their brethren so they have thwarted careers. They’re not collegiate

    I’ll try and find you a simplified version of the theory, so you can read it slowly, and eventually grasp it, maybe
    Isn't that funny because I know literally dozens of ex-nuclear scientists from Harwell, all doctorates in Physics or Chemistry, several professors. I know a retired professor from St Georges Hospital (specialising in medical statistics). My son currently is doing his doctorate in Cambridge and his girlfried is a fellow of Peterhouse and he made the final qualification to represent the GB team in the International Olympiad in 3 subjects and won the Cambridge University Computer Science prize while still at school. She represented Romania in Chemistry.

    And none of what you say applies to any of them. odd that isn't it.

    And of course I handed you your arse twice over the last few days, me, who I will admit, doesn't have the intellect of the list I have just laid out (My son astounds me).

    I know you keep trying to convince us (which is sad in itself), but you really aren't as bright as you think, which is maybe why you are so keen on recognition.

    Off to cut a hedge now as I have a real life and don't need to post drivel here endlessly.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    THIS THREAD HAS BEEN RESHUFFLED
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Rightly or wrongly, it is amazing to see the host of a breakfast tv show to talk to a guest like this

    https://x.com/archrose90/status/1723982498646925470?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Hahaha

    I do like Ed Balls. Can we not have him as Mayor of London, over the execrable Khan? Please?
    He is box office, excellent. However he would never take the mayoral job – the money isn't good enough. He earns a decent crust through his media work.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    Foxy said:

    Cameron back???

    Well, that should piss off Johnson.

    What went on yesterday with drinks after the wreaths?

    Heh. Good point. Woke up with his face in a half eaten kebab and suddenly realised he’d agreed to be Foreign Sec.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    148grss said:

    Taz said:

    The Football Association has launched an investigation into one of its own council members, who has been forced to apologise for saying that “Adolf Hitler would be proud of Benjamin Netanyahu”.

    Wasim Haq, who joined the FA as a “BAME Football Communities Representative” in 2019, sparked fury after commenting on social media about Israel’s war with Hamas. Haq, who also holds positions with England Golf and the Lawn Tennis Association, deleted the post and denied that he is antisemitic.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fa-to-investigate-council-member-over-hitler-proud-of-netanyahu-post/ar-AA1jOsYU?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=b3844c6ad5c14d9893770c912ecf0d95&ei=11

    I mean Netanyahu literally argues that Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jewish people until a Muslim convinced him to, which might have hurt Adolf's feelings but does try to paint him as a lesser anti-Semitic evil.

    A source for this: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-netanyahu-hitler-idUSKCN0SF15120151021
    Are you actually defending al-Husseini?
    I'm saying that al-Husseini did not give Hitler the idea to exterminate the Jewish people living in Europe. As is the historic consensus.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Sunak sacking Suella, Bad Enoch, Coffey and recruiting a few people who are in possession of more than one brain cell is surprising. I agree with @isam that it will move the needle a bit. A wholesale purge of the populist right.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Actually, with AI you could appoint anyone you like anywhere from history. Thatcher to Home Sec. Richard the Lionheart as Foreign Secretary thanks to his deep experience of the Levant. Vlad “the Impaler” Dracul as Schools Minister. Moominpappa as Business Sec (one for the Mumsnet crowd, there). Anus McPenis - a completely fictitious failed Scottish punk star, invented by me 13 seconds ago - as Deputy PM

    I mean, if you think this is currently possible or even potentially possible - I have a bridge in the metaverse I would love to sell you; it was designed by the same guy who made the most expensive bored ape
    It will soon be very possible

    You’ll be able to create an utterly convincing 3D avatar of historical and fictional characters - convincing, that is, on a screen (which is where we see politicians anyway). Voice cloning will give them totally plausible voices - see the fake Starmer and Obama audios

    AI can then be fed the entire intellectual output of these people - their writing, speeches, messages, memoirs, recorded conversations - and be told: think and act like this person

    Et voila. The dead are born again. You could have a Cabinet comprised of Abe Lincoln, Winston Churchill, Mahatma Gandhi, JFK, Elizabeth I, and Augustus Caesar

    Mad but true
    No, you will have a simulacrum of them that is able to do a good impression - it is much more Madam Tussaud's or the Disney Hall of Presidents then it is a real person or intellect. AI is a parrot (with no disrespect to the actual intelligence of parrots) that can learn a script, and a style of writing, that is all. It cannot create. You can give it the works of Lincoln or Churchill and what it will churn out will maybe sound real, but it won't mean anything.
    I’m torn here

    You’re entirely wrong but you’re SO wrong it’s clear you have no idea what you’re talking about and you wouldn’t even understand if I tried to explain

    So, meh
    Yes, that's such a clear argument you made there, much like your "my IQ is too high for PBers to understand me" position and the constant sourcing of Oli London - it makes it very clear that your opinions are very well informed.
    The IQ thing is true, I’ve looked into it. If you have an IQ north of 140 (eg, me) you will think in a way that is not only different to others but indecipherable to many. Because the smarter person is about five chess moves ahead, people lower down the rankings literally don’t understand what you’re on about and may never get it

    The theory is at its most interesting when the stupider person has a higher than average intelligence but nothing exceptional - 115 say (ie, you). These people can vaguely grasp what the smarter person is maybe on about but they resist it, because they don’t understand the logical leaps, so it challenges them and makes them uneasy

    The dumb person (under 100 IQ) does NOT resist because they simply accept the smarter person is smarter, and don’t bother worrying about it

    This not only explains much of PB, it actually explains much of human history. For instance, it explains why ludicrously off-the-dial geniuses (IQ over 165) often fail in life (despite being so gifted). They appear SO alien and so inexplicable, others shun them, and these megabrains get angrily frustrated at the slowness of their brethren so they have thwarted careers. They’re not collegiate

    I’ll try and find you a simplified version of the theory, so you can read it slowly, and eventually grasp it, maybe
    Isn't that funny because I know literally dozens of ex-nuclear scientists from Harwell, all doctorates in Physics or Chemistry, several professors. I know a retired professor from St Georges Hospital (specialising in medical statistics). My son currently is doing his doctorate in Cambridge and his girlfried is a fellow of Peterhouse and he made the final qualification to represent the GB team in the International Olympiad in 3 subjects and won the Cambridge University Computer Science prize while still at school. She represented Romania in Chemistry.

    And none of what you say applies to any of them. odd that isn't it.

    And of course I handed you your arse twice over the last few days, me, who I will admit, doesn't have the intellect of the list I have just laid out (My son astounds me).

    I know you keep trying to convince us (which is sad in itself), but you really aren't as bright as you think, which is maybe why you are so keen on recognition.

    Off to cut a hedge now as I have a real life and don't need to post drivel here endlessly.
    Also IQ is mostly bullshit and not many psychologists treat it as uncritically as people do in popular culture.
  • Cameron obviously back s FS to negotiate the terms for rejoining the EU.
  • DougSeal said:

    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    Suella sacked and Dave back would mean I’ve got my fucking party back.

    That may be so, but looking at the smoking wreckage of a formerly functioning, well-run, self-confident country playing it's role at the heart of Europe, a member of the single market with full freedom of movement for its citizens around their own continent, I am not delighted at all.

    Cameron and Osborne precipitated disaster for this country. Austerity and Brexit. What a legacy.
    What's to stop anyone from this country moving anywhere they want in Europe ?

    As far as I know the ports and airports still operate.

    Go around the country and how have things changed since 2010 ? There's more housing and high streets look more run down than previously.

    For all the hyperbole things have changed little for most people - oldies are richer and graduates have more debt, houses are more expensive but jobs are more plentiful.
    "Freedom of Movement" tends to refer to the right of an EU citizen go an exercise economic rights (i.e. live and work) in any member state. It doesn't refer to the ability to spend a week's holiday. As you well know.
    Well yes, but it was only ever a tiny minority who went to work in another EU country. And it is only a minority of those who would want to who now cannot.
    Of the practical difficulties of moving abroad, whether or not freedom of movement applies is small beer. Realistically, 90% are just not going to work in the EU because they are monoglot Anglophones. And of the other 10%, if they have the skills, a way around the bureaucracy will be found, just as it would if they were to emigrate to Australia or New Zealand.
    Huh? Your post starts with "want" and ends with "need". An equally skilled person from the EU will get the job ahead of the person from the UK. Brexit has thus shut the doors on you UK people moving abroad who want to. Put simply, why would an EU employer go through the hassle of getting a work permit for a kid from Dundee or Devon when a kid from Dublin can walk straight in. How does someone from Cardiff who see a business need in Croatia that is not needed in Wales do so now?

    And what about unskilled workers? Imagine a situation where there is a need for unskilled workers elsewhere while there is little need for the same workers here. A situation, I admit, so outlandish that they only made a comedy drama about it in the 1980s.
    You really think that unskilled British workers are going to find better job opportunities in a European country which speaks a different language than they do here ?

    As to Auf Weidersehn Pet what is forgotten is that Dennis and the boys were able to work tax free in Germany - when that status was changed they returned home.

    And its very difficult to image that skilled construction workers in the UK are going to be short of employment opportunities for decades to come.

    If you want to imagine a demographic which will struggle in upcoming years then try debt laden southern graduates whose opportunities have been restricted by AI, globalisation and unaffordable housing. Though whether any other European country would be better for them I would seriously doubt.
  • Jonathan said:

    So with two wars in flight who answers questions in the HoC?

    No-one answers questions in the HoC anymore anyway. Someone else can read the pre-prepared script to the question they wish they had been asked.
    It's not 'pre-prepared'; it's prepared.

    And there'll no doubt be a second-in-command minister in the Commons with responsibilities for FO questions like that, as there was under Carrington.
    It is pre-prepared as it is prepared by someone other than the speaker. That is common usage whether popular with old schoolers or not.
    A prepared speech, announcement, action or whatever is prepared, whether it was prepared by the person ultimately doing it or by someone on their behalf.

    The abomination was introduced by Gordon Brown, made no sense then and continues to be a tautology (the 'pre' is literally already in there) now.
  • Andy_JS said:

    When was the last time a major cabinet position was held by someone not in the HoC?

    Lord Carrington: Foreign Secretary until 5 April 1982.

    For the others:
    The Earl of Rosebery was PM until 22 June 1895
    The Marquess of Normanby was Home Secretary until 13 March 1839
    Lord Denman was the last peer to be CoE (acting) in 1834.

    This update is brought to you by Wiki Research Services Inc.
    It's incorrect.

    Alec Douglas-Home was briefly PM while still in the Lords in 1963, then for about 3 weeks between serving his disclaimer and winning the 1963 Kinross and Western Perthshire by-election was a member of neither House.

    (Technically, all ministers are not in the HoC when it's dissolved pending a general election but I assume that's not in the spirit of the question!).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    Taz said:

    The Football Association has launched an investigation into one of its own council members, who has been forced to apologise for saying that “Adolf Hitler would be proud of Benjamin Netanyahu”.

    Wasim Haq, who joined the FA as a “BAME Football Communities Representative” in 2019, sparked fury after commenting on social media about Israel’s war with Hamas. Haq, who also holds positions with England Golf and the Lawn Tennis Association, deleted the post and denied that he is antisemitic.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fa-to-investigate-council-member-over-hitler-proud-of-netanyahu-post/ar-AA1jOsYU?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=b3844c6ad5c14d9893770c912ecf0d95&ei=11

    I mean Netanyahu literally argues that Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jewish people until a Muslim convinced him to, which might have hurt Adolf's feelings but does try to paint him as a lesser anti-Semitic evil.

    A source for this: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-netanyahu-hitler-idUSKCN0SF15120151021
    Are you actually defending al-Husseini?
    I'm saying that al-Husseini did not give Hitler the idea to exterminate the Jewish people living in Europe. As is the historic consensus.
    You seem to have very odd readings of history at times. I'm sure someone who was a friend of Nazis, did deals with Nazis, wanted the Jews banished from the ME, and visited concentration camps, was altogether a perfectly wholesome and good fellow.

    And he's a moderate compared to some of the people you want to throw Israeli jews to.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,149
    Re Cameron, given his involvement in the Greensill collapse, I'm not sure he should be allowed anywhere near the levers of power.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Andy_JS said:

    When was the last time a major cabinet position was held by someone not in the HoC?

    Lord Carrington: Foreign Secretary until 5 April 1982.

    For the others:
    The Earl of Rosebery was PM until 22 June 1895
    The Marquess of Normanby was Home Secretary until 13 March 1839
    Lord Denman was the last peer to be CoE (acting) in 1834.

    This update is brought to you by Wiki Research Services Inc.
    It's incorrect.

    Alec Douglas-Home was briefly PM while still in the Lords in 1963, then for about 3 weeks between serving his disclaimer and winning the 1963 Kinross and Western Perthshire by-election was a member of neither House.

    (Technically, all ministers are not in the HoC when it's dissolved pending a general election but I assume that's not in the spirit of the question!).
    And even if we discount Home, Salisbury succeeded Rosebery.
This discussion has been closed.