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Can there be anything more symbolic than Monday’s Indy front page? – politicalbetting.com

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  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    Ghedebrav said:

    Rishi's constant so far is being terrible at politics, so I'm not expecting that to change.

    Worst-case scenario is that centrists have written the Tories off and aren't listening, but bringing Cameron back/sacking Braverman alienates the right-wing. You could see RefUK push beyond 10% and the Tories sink towards 20%.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Leon said:

    Actually, with AI you could appoint anyone you like anywhere from history. Thatcher to Home Sec. Richard the Lionheart as Foreign Secretary thanks to his deep experience of the Levant. Vlad “the Impaler” Dracul as Schools Minister. Moominpappa as Business Sec (one for the Mumsnet crowd, there). Anus McPenis - a completely fictitious failed Scottish punk star, invented by me 13 seconds ago - as Deputy PM

    I mean, if you think this is currently possible or even potentially possible - I have a bridge in the metaverse I would love to sell you; it was designed by the same guy who made the most expensive bored ape
  • Suella sacked and Dave back would mean I’ve got my fucking party back.

    That may be so, but looking at the smoking wreckage of a formerly functioning, well-run, self-confident country playing it's role at the heart of Europe, a member of the single market with full freedom of movement for its citizens around their own continent, I am not delighted at all.

    Cameron and Osborne precipitated disaster for this country. Austerity and Brexit. What a legacy.
    Austerity was inevitable, it wasn’t a choice.

    Lest we forget Labour went into the 2010 general election promising deeper cuts than Thatcher.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Dave as FS would be a most interesting development
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647

    Suella sacked and Dave back would mean I’ve got my fucking party back.

    ❤️


  • sbjme19sbjme19 Posts: 194
    Ŵondered who'd be the first of the loons to condemn Rishi for sacking Braverman? Andrea Jenkyns
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,404
    Jonathan said:

    If the Tories tack to the centre with unelected retreads and still lose, the headbangers own the future outright. It’s a big gamble.

    They have even less policies than Starmer and thats saying something.

  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    If nothing else appointing Cameron will knock sacking Braverman off the front pages.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    148grss said:

    I mean, when he's right, he's right...


    That's about right
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    Rishi, Dave, George and William outflank

    SKS Reeves Cooper and Streeting to the left
  • It genuinely wouldn't surprise me if Osborne turned up as Chancellor, now, although Minister without portfolio is more likely.
  • Ignore the Lib Dems on Dave.

    They are still pissed he destroyed them.

    From 62 MPs to 8 MPs on Dave’s watch.

    They destroyed themselves, by trashing their own (actually very good) time in government.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    Good day for UKIP or whatever they are called these days
  • @TheScreamingEagles might need some valium if GO comes back too.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    Suella sacked and Dave back would mean I’ve got my fucking party back.

    That may be so, but looking at the smoking wreckage of a formerly functioning, well-run, self-confident country playing it's role at the heart of Europe, a member of the single market with full freedom of movement for its citizens around their own continent, I am not delighted at all.

    Cameron and Osborne precipitated disaster for this country. Austerity and Brexit. What a legacy.
    No they didn't - the British voting public did.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Strong indication Rishi won't leave the ECHR if SCOTUK rules against him wednesday.

    Excellent point.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    sbjme19 said:

    Ŵondered who'd be the first of the loons to condemn Rishi for sacking Braverman? Andrea Jenkyns

    Presumably Miriam Cates was too busy drowning puppies to comment.
  • 148grss said:

    I mean, when he's right, he's right...


    That's about right
    Yes. The reason why the Tory party is heading for ELE is because the current parliamentary party are so fucking awful. Morons. Idiots. Sycophants. The few who are decent are discarded on the backbenches.

    You get what you vote for, and in 2019 people voted in the very worst political intake we have ever seen and made them the government.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,404

    Long-standing PBers will know that I'm one of last few Cameron supporters, but my initial reaction to this news (assuming it is confirmed) is that I think it's a pity to have moved Cleverly, who has been particularly good as Foreign Sec and seems to have gained the confidence of foreign minsters around the world. Of course Cameron will also immediately be regarded as a serious figure, which will help.

    It remains to be seen how he is received elsewhere but it probably helps that Merkel has left the scene. Trump getting back in might be a bit of a headache.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586
    Gibb claims he jumped:

    "Over the last few weeks I have been discussing taking up a diplomatic role after the general election. To enable me to do so I have asked the Prime Minister if I can step down from the government at the reshuffle and he has agreed. 1/5"
  • Pulpstar said:

    IanB2 said:

    Cleverley called in - the new HS?

    Has anyone ever moved from FS to HS before ?
    I can't think of an example of an immediate switch in a cabinet reshuffle, but Palmerston was Home Secretary about a year after having been Foreign Secretary.
    Jim Callaghan went the other way, from Home to Foreign Secretary, but with a spell in Opposition in between.
  • Mr. Nabavi, it was a curious irony that the party that lvoed the idea of PR and coalitions forever turned out to be worse at handling the politics of coalition than the party that doesn't want to have them.

    Shame, really, as the Coalition was mostly better than other Parliaments.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    edited November 2023
    Jonathan said:

    If the Tories tack to the centre with unelected retreads and still lose, the headbangers own the future outright. It’s a big gamble.

    They'll lose less if they can hold the centre more than they are currently doing.
    The Tories have to focus on damage limitation for the election. Not to win it.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    edited November 2023

    It genuinely wouldn't surprise me if Osborne turned up as Chancellor, now, although Minister without portfolio is more likely.

    I never get the feeling Osborne really misses being in frontline politics. I mean, if there’s anyone who can persuade him to come back it’s Cameron, but I’m highly doubtful, as much as the Tory All Stars* Cabinet would be a great story.

    * your mileage may vary
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    edited November 2023

    Rishi, Dave, George and William outflank

    SKS Reeves Cooper and Streeting to the left

    Of course the sensible Labour response would be to bring Blair, Brown, Balls, Mandelson etc back in formally...

    EDIT - happily for the LibDems, the Cleggasm is not available.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908

    Sean_F said:

    MaxPB said:

    Some suggestion that the MPC might hold rates at the current rate until late next year because services inflation is going to fall more slowly than the headline rate. I hope that this report has come from a financial illiterate and isn't actually reflective of the BoE outlook because services inflation is a hugely lagging indicator and tracks to wage rises which account for almost the entirety of input price inflation for services providers. If the CPI rate falls then wage rises fall and eventually services inflation follows.

    If the BoE waits for services inflation to fall before cutting rates we're going to be in the shit and just as we were way, way too late and slow in raising rates we're going to be too late and slow in cutting them.

    Andrew Bailey is going to cost the Tories an extra 30-40 seats they would probably otherwise hold onto with interest rates falling by April to May next year and down to ~3.5% by election time in October-December.

    It is not the job of the BoE to protect the public from the government's mistakes.
    Nor is it their job to make avoidable mistakes. The B o E seems to view economic growth and wage rises as bad things.
    In any normal world the Governor would have been sacked over allowing inflation to rise to double figures and be above target for such a prolonged period.

    Action too little too late and yet he is allowed to spout on its workers wanting a pay rise causing it.
    The mistake was allowing a Brexiteer to become Governer of the Bank of England. With judgement like that what did anyone expect?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    Will Dave bring the same harmony and unity to the Middle East that he brought to the U.K.?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Rishi, Dave, George and William outflank

    SKS Reeves Cooper and Streeting to the left

    Of course the sensible Labour response would be to bring Blair, Brown, Balls, Mandelson etc back in formally...

    EDIT - happily for the LibDems, the Cleggasm is not available.
    So you mean they'll go for Corbyn?
  • Piss funny

    Minister awkwardly reacts to Braverman sacking after backing PM's confidence in her moments before
    Armed forces minister James Heappey, who joined us earlier this morning on Sky News, was left to awkwardly react to news of Suella Braverman's sacking - having moments earlier outlined how the prime minister had confidence in her as home secretary.

    Minutes before she was sacked, he told LBC that the prime minister and his team in Number 10 had been "very clear she [Ms Braverman] has his confidence and, in that sense, one would imagine that she will continue".

    Moments later, however, he was told live on ITV's Good Morning Britain that she had been axed.

    "Your viewers will be enjoying my discomfort," he said.

    "But in this case [it is] difficult to offer commentary when I just don't know what is going on."
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    If Osbourne comes back (unlikely in my view) then the Tories will be back to austerity and away from culture wars - and nobody likes austerity any more (not that many people liked the culture wars). It would be admitting everything post the EU referendum was a failure (which at least would be some honesty from the Tories), and would almost certainly be the death knell for the party.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    One would think a return of Cameron and the P45 for Braverman would help the Tories in the Blue Wall .
  • Cleverly is home secretary
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    carnforth said:

    Gibb claims he jumped:

    "Over the last few weeks I have been discussing taking up a diplomatic role after the general election. To enable me to do so I have asked the Prime Minister if I can step down from the government at the reshuffle and he has agreed. 1/5"

    I can't see why Gibb would have been sacked if this reshuffle is seeing a shift to the centre. He will have resigned.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    If you'd asked me yesterday which Conservative figure was most likely to rejoin Rishi's government at a senior level, I would have had, in order, from likeliest to unlikeliest:

    Boris
    Truss
    Osborne
    Major
    Winston Churchill
    Margaret Thatcher
    ...
    Cameron

    Therefore I can't help but think it won't happen. for one thing, how quickly can he be chucked into the HoL?
  • Rishi, Dave, George and William outflank

    SKS Reeves Cooper and Streeting to the left

    Of course the sensible Labour response would be to bring Blair, Brown, Balls, Mandelson etc back in formally...

    EDIT - happily for the LibDems, the Cleggasm is not available.
    If you were offering me a battle between the Cameroons and the old NuLab lot, I would be absolutely bloomin delighted. Given how far our politics has sunk since then, they all look like utter titans.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    edited November 2023
    I suspect that the final nail in Braverman's coffin was hammered in by Tommy Robinson and his EDL mates on Saturday, which would be a rather delicious irony.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    edited November 2023
    Cleverly is not in favour of leaving ECHR which is absolutely correct, not least because of the effect on the WF and Good Friday Agreement

    Sky suggesting Sunak is appointing his successor
  • Suella sacked and Dave back would mean I’ve got my fucking party back.

    That may be so, but looking at the smoking wreckage of a formerly functioning, well-run, self-confident country playing it's role at the heart of Europe, a member of the single market with full freedom of movement for its citizens around their own continent, I am not delighted at all.

    Cameron and Osborne precipitated disaster for this country. Austerity and Brexit. What a legacy.
    What's to stop anyone from this country moving anywhere they want in Europe ?

    As far as I know the ports and airports still operate.

    Go around the country and how have things changed since 2010 ? There's more housing and high streets look more run down than previously.

    For all the hyperbole things have changed little for most people - oldies are richer and graduates have more debt, houses are more expensive but jobs are more plentiful.
  • Long-standing PBers will know that I'm one of last few Cameron supporters, but my initial reaction to this news (assuming it is confirmed) is that I think it's a pity to have moved Cleverly, who has been particularly good as Foreign Sec and seems to have gained the confidence of foreign minsters around the world. Of course Cameron will also immediately be regarded as a serious figure, which will help.

    It remains to be seen how he is received elsewhere but it probably helps that Merkel has left the scene. Trump getting back in might be a bit of a headache.
    If Trump gets back in, the name of the UK foreign sec will be the least of our (and the world's) problems.
  • 148grss said:

    I mean, when he's right, he's right...


    That's about right
    Most Tory backbenchers went to the wrong schools. To be serious, Rishi will need to watch the posho quota.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    @TheScreamingEagles might need some valium if GO comes back too.

    GO would be brilliant in an enforcer role
  • Suella sacked and Dave back would mean I’ve got my fucking party back.

    That may be so, but looking at the smoking wreckage of a formerly functioning, well-run, self-confident country playing it's role at the heart of Europe, a member of the single market with full freedom of movement for its citizens around their own continent, I am not delighted at all.

    Cameron and Osborne precipitated disaster for this country. Austerity and Brexit. What a legacy.
    Austerity was inevitable, it wasn’t a choice.

    Lest we forget Labour went into the 2010 general election promising deeper cuts than Thatcher.
    It's where the Conservatives chose to impose it that really sticks in the craw. Remember Pickles' 'revenue spending power' measure? Oddly, and I'm sure this wasn't deliberate, it was poorer Labour councils that saw the biggest cuts. Which they're still struggling with the impact of today.
  • https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1724000199507423509

    NEW: arise Lord Call Me Dave

    Sources confirm Cameron IS Foreign Sec



    ITSSSSS HAPPPENINGGGGGGG!!!!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,404

    Long-standing PBers will know that I'm one of last few Cameron supporters, but my initial reaction to this news (assuming it is confirmed) is that I think it's a pity to have moved Cleverly, who has been particularly good as Foreign Sec and seems to have gained the confidence of foreign minsters around the world. Of course Cameron will also immediately be regarded as a serious figure, which will help.

    It remains to be seen how he is received elsewhere but it probably helps that Merkel has left the scene. Trump getting back in might be a bit of a headache.
    If Trump gets back in, the name of the UK foreign sec will be the least of our (and the world's) problems.
    Well at least Dave would earn his money :smile:
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Actually, with AI you could appoint anyone you like anywhere from history. Thatcher to Home Sec. Richard the Lionheart as Foreign Secretary thanks to his deep experience of the Levant. Vlad “the Impaler” Dracul as Schools Minister. Moominpappa as Business Sec (one for the Mumsnet crowd, there). Anus McPenis - a completely fictitious failed Scottish punk star, invented by me 13 seconds ago - as Deputy PM

    I mean, if you think this is currently possible or even potentially possible - I have a bridge in the metaverse I would love to sell you; it was designed by the same guy who made the most expensive bored ape
    It will soon be very possible

    You’ll be able to create an utterly convincing 3D avatar of historical and fictional characters - convincing, that is, on a screen (which is where we see politicians anyway). Voice cloning will give them totally plausible voices - see the fake Starmer and Obama audios

    AI can then be fed the entire intellectual output of these people - their writing, speeches, messages, memoirs, recorded conversations - and be told: think and act like this person

    Et voila. The dead are born again. You could have a Cabinet comprised of Abe Lincoln, Winston Churchill, Mahatma Gandhi, JFK, Elizabeth I, and Augustus Caesar

    Mad but true
  • Bringing back Cameron after sacking Braverman is basically a Sunak declaration of war on the ERG. If he'd done it a year ago he might have won some credit. I doubt he will now.
  • https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1724000199507423509

    NEW: arise Lord Call Me Dave

    Sources confirm Cameron IS Foreign Sec



    ITSSSSS HAPPPENINGGGGGGG!!!!

    Cameron probably needs the money after the Greensill debacle.
  • If you'd asked me yesterday which Conservative figure was most likely to rejoin Rishi's government at a senior level, I would have had, in order, from likeliest to unlikeliest:

    Boris
    Truss
    Osborne
    Major
    Winston Churchill
    Margaret Thatcher
    ...
    Cameron

    Therefore I can't help but think it won't happen. for one thing, how quickly can he be chucked into the HoL?

    It happened pretty quickly for Mandelson when he returned as Business Secretary - ten days from reshuffle to introduction in the Lords.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    Cameron has a second chance to reverse his dismal legacy.
  • As commentators have been pointing out on the social media platform formerly known as Twitter, Cameron's outspoken criticism of Rishi's HS2 stance would make this .. interesting.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,035

    Rishi, Dave, George and William outflank

    SKS Reeves Cooper and Streeting to the left

    Of course the sensible Labour response would be to bring Blair, Brown, Balls, Mandelson etc back in formally...

    EDIT - happily for the LibDems, the Cleggasm is not available.
    If you were offering me a battle between the Cameroons and the old NuLab lot, I would be absolutely bloomin delighted. Given how far our politics has sunk since then, they all look like utter titans.
    New Labour only look like Titans or even moderately acceptable because they had a much more benign economic environment. They depended on spending the money the Conservative economic reforms had generated. Once the economy turned nasty, they collapsed pretty quickly.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,404

    Bringing back Cameron after sacking Braverman is basically a Sunak declaration of war on the ERG. If he'd done it a year ago he might have won some credit. I doubt he will now.

    Sunak moves as Farage heads to Im a celeb
  • Suella sacked and Dave back would mean I’ve got my fucking party back.

    That may be so, but looking at the smoking wreckage of a formerly functioning, well-run, self-confident country playing it's role at the heart of Europe, a member of the single market with full freedom of movement for its citizens around their own continent, I am not delighted at all.

    Cameron and Osborne precipitated disaster for this country. Austerity and Brexit. What a legacy.
    Hahahahaha

    Britain never played its role at the heart fo Europe. Because it never had such a role. It was always rightly at odds with the scope and direction of the EU. The biggest mistake we ever made was abandoning the sensible policy of trying to keep Europe divided a la Humphrey Appleby.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1724000199507423509

    NEW: arise Lord Call Me Dave

    Sources confirm Cameron IS Foreign Sec



    ITSSSSS HAPPPENINGGGGGGG!!!!

    Lord Pigf*cker of Bullingdon
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Actually, with AI you could appoint anyone you like anywhere from history. Thatcher to Home Sec. Richard the Lionheart as Foreign Secretary thanks to his deep experience of the Levant. Vlad “the Impaler” Dracul as Schools Minister. Moominpappa as Business Sec (one for the Mumsnet crowd, there). Anus McPenis - a completely fictitious failed Scottish punk star, invented by me 13 seconds ago - as Deputy PM

    I mean, if you think this is currently possible or even potentially possible - I have a bridge in the metaverse I would love to sell you; it was designed by the same guy who made the most expensive bored ape
    It will soon be very possible

    You’ll be able to create an utterly convincing 3D avatar of historical and fictional characters - convincing, that is, on a screen (which is where we see politicians anyway). Voice cloning will give them totally plausible voices - see the fake Starmer and Obama audios

    AI can then be fed the entire intellectual output of these people - their writing, speeches, messages, memoirs, recorded conversations - and be told: think and act like this person

    Et voila. The dead are born again. You could have a Cabinet comprised of Abe Lincoln, Winston Churchill, Mahatma Gandhi, JFK, Elizabeth I, and Augustus Caesar

    Mad but true
    No, you will have a simulacrum of them that is able to do a good impression - it is much more Madam Tussaud's or the Disney Hall of Presidents then it is a real person or intellect. AI is a parrot (with no disrespect to the actual intelligence of parrots) that can learn a script, and a style of writing, that is all. It cannot create. You can give it the works of Lincoln or Churchill and what it will churn out will maybe sound real, but it won't mean anything.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1724000199507423509

    NEW: arise Lord Call Me Dave

    Sources confirm Cameron IS Foreign Sec



    ITSSSSS HAPPPENINGGGGGGG!!!!

    How can Cameron be Foreign Secretary if he isn't an MP or even in the House of Lords now?
  • Long-standing PBers will know that I'm one of last few Cameron supporters, but my initial reaction to this news (assuming it is confirmed) is that I think it's a pity to have moved Cleverly, who has been particularly good as Foreign Sec and seems to have gained the confidence of foreign minsters around the world. Of course Cameron will also immediately be regarded as a serious figure, which will help.

    The Change Candidate strategy has clearly been dropped. Agree about Cleverley. This will raise his profile. Sunak probably thinking about a successor. Cleverley looks by far the best choice.

  • What price David Cameron as next leader of the Conservative Party?
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Call Me Dave's financial affairs back into the spotlight then.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,404
    HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1724000199507423509

    NEW: arise Lord Call Me Dave

    Sources confirm Cameron IS Foreign Sec



    ITSSSSS HAPPPENINGGGGGGG!!!!

    How can Cameron be Foreign Secretary if he isn't an MP or even in the House of Lords now?
    He gets a peerage
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    Labour quite quick off the mark this morning, with an email on Braverman's sacking out to all members. The text includes:
    They're so desperate, there are even rumours that David Cameron may come back as Foreign Secretary!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    I thought the messaging from Rishi was that he was somehow going to position himself as the change candidate. Isn't bringing back Dave kinda reminding everyone that this is, in fact, the same party that's been in charge for 13 years. Also, were there not any MPs good enough for the job?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    If you'd asked me yesterday which Conservative figure was most likely to rejoin Rishi's government at a senior level, I would have had, in order, from likeliest to unlikeliest:

    Boris
    Truss
    Osborne
    Major
    Winston Churchill
    Margaret Thatcher
    ...
    Cameron

    Therefore I can't help but think it won't happen. for one thing, how quickly can he be chucked into the HoL?

    It happened pretty quickly for Mandelson when he returned as Business Secretary - ten days from reshuffle to introduction in the Lords.
    It would need to be done in a few days. Mandelson steadied the ship but still didn't stop Brown's election defeat
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    What price David Cameron as next leader of the Conservative Party?

    Wouldn’t he need to now resign from the Lords, to stand again for the Commons at the election?
  • Mr. Leon, while this ended, I think, with Augustus, older Roman statues were made to be genuine representations of the individual in question so AI could, perhaps, 'bring to life' such Romans in a way not possible with most people from history.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    edited November 2023

    Long-standing PBers will know that I'm one of last few Cameron supporters, but my initial reaction to this news (assuming it is confirmed) is that I think it's a pity to have moved Cleverly, who has been particularly good as Foreign Sec and seems to have gained the confidence of foreign minsters around the world. Of course Cameron will also immediately be regarded as a serious figure, which will help.

    Ye, it'd be a bit like Biden appointing Clinton (H) as Sec of State again, everyone knows who they are instantly.
  • https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1724000199507423509

    NEW: arise Lord Call Me Dave

    Sources confirm Cameron IS Foreign Sec



    ITSSSSS HAPPPENINGGGGGGG!!!!

    Cameron probably needs the money after the Greensill debacle.
    He didn't lose any money from that - he made several million quid off it. The public lost a fair bit, but Just Call Me Dave was alright.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    edited November 2023

    If you'd asked me yesterday which Conservative figure was most likely to rejoin Rishi's government at a senior level, I would have had, in order, from likeliest to unlikeliest:

    Boris
    Truss
    Osborne
    Major
    Winston Churchill
    Margaret Thatcher
    ...
    Cameron

    Therefore I can't help but think it won't happen. for one thing, how quickly can he be chucked into the HoL?

    In a millisecond at the PM’s whim. He’s doesn’t technically even need to be at all, but he will be.
  • https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1724000199507423509

    NEW: arise Lord Call Me Dave

    Sources confirm Cameron IS Foreign Sec



    ITSSSSS HAPPPENINGGGGGGG!!!!

    REJOICE
  • MuesliMuesli Posts: 202
    It’s the old issue of focusing on tactics rather than strategy yet again.

    Bringing David Cameron back will seize the short term headlines and serve as a distraction from the Suella Braverman farrago.

    Over the longer term though, having David Cameron in a high profile cabinet role will surely just highlight what a political pygmy Rishi Sunak is in comparison? It’s a bit like having Lionel Messi on the bench and Lionel Blair on the pitch. Risky move.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited November 2023
    nico679 said:

    One would think a return of Cameron and the P45 for Braverman would help the Tories in the Blue Wall .

    Only if gains from Labour and the LDs outweigh further leakage to ReformUK
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Suella sacked and Dave back would mean I’ve got my fucking party back.

    That may be so, but looking at the smoking wreckage of a formerly functioning, well-run, self-confident country playing it's role at the heart of Europe, a member of the single market with full freedom of movement for its citizens around their own continent, I am not delighted at all.

    Cameron and Osborne precipitated disaster for this country. Austerity and Brexit. What a legacy.
    What's to stop anyone from this country moving anywhere they want in Europe ?

    As far as I know the ports and airports still operate.

    Go around the country and how have things changed since 2010 ? There's more housing and high streets look more run down than previously.

    For all the hyperbole things have changed little for most people - oldies are richer and graduates have more debt, houses are more expensive but jobs are more plentiful.
    "Freedom of Movement" tends to refer to the right of an EU citizen go an exercise economic rights (i.e. live and work) in any member state. It doesn't refer to the ability to spend a week's holiday. As you well know.
  • HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1724000199507423509

    NEW: arise Lord Call Me Dave

    Sources confirm Cameron IS Foreign Sec



    ITSSSSS HAPPPENINGGGGGGG!!!!

    How can Cameron be Foreign Secretary if he isn't an MP or even in the House of Lords now?
    He will be ennobled soon.

    Just like Mandy in 2008.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,404

    HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1724000199507423509

    NEW: arise Lord Call Me Dave

    Sources confirm Cameron IS Foreign Sec



    ITSSSSS HAPPPENINGGGGGGG!!!!

    How can Cameron be Foreign Secretary if he isn't an MP or even in the House of Lords now?
    He will be ennobled soon.

    Just like Mandy in 2008.
    Whens Nick Clegg coming back ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Actually, with AI you could appoint anyone you like anywhere from history. Thatcher to Home Sec. Richard the Lionheart as Foreign Secretary thanks to his deep experience of the Levant. Vlad “the Impaler” Dracul as Schools Minister. Moominpappa as Business Sec (one for the Mumsnet crowd, there). Anus McPenis - a completely fictitious failed Scottish punk star, invented by me 13 seconds ago - as Deputy PM

    I mean, if you think this is currently possible or even potentially possible - I have a bridge in the metaverse I would love to sell you; it was designed by the same guy who made the most expensive bored ape
    It will soon be very possible

    You’ll be able to create an utterly convincing 3D avatar of historical and fictional characters - convincing, that is, on a screen (which is where we see politicians anyway). Voice cloning will give them totally plausible voices - see the fake Starmer and Obama audios

    AI can then be fed the entire intellectual output of these people - their writing, speeches, messages, memoirs, recorded conversations - and be told: think and act like this person

    Et voila. The dead are born again. You could have a Cabinet comprised of Abe Lincoln, Winston Churchill, Mahatma Gandhi, JFK, Elizabeth I, and Augustus Caesar

    Mad but true
    No, you will have a simulacrum of them that is able to do a good impression - it is much more Madam Tussaud's or the Disney Hall of Presidents then it is a real person or intellect. AI is a parrot (with no disrespect to the actual intelligence of parrots) that can learn a script, and a style of writing, that is all. It cannot create. You can give it the works of Lincoln or Churchill and what it will churn out will maybe sound real, but it won't mean anything.
    I’m torn here

    You’re entirely wrong but you’re SO wrong it’s clear you have no idea what you’re talking about and you wouldn’t even understand if I tried to explain

    So, meh
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    Fishing said:

    Rishi, Dave, George and William outflank

    SKS Reeves Cooper and Streeting to the left

    Of course the sensible Labour response would be to bring Blair, Brown, Balls, Mandelson etc back in formally...

    EDIT - happily for the LibDems, the Cleggasm is not available.
    If you were offering me a battle between the Cameroons and the old NuLab lot, I would be absolutely bloomin delighted. Given how far our politics has sunk since then, they all look like utter titans.
    New Labour only look like Titans or even moderately acceptable because they had a much more benign economic environment. They depended on spending the money the Conservative economic reforms had generated. Once the economy turned nasty, they collapsed pretty quickly.
    Maybe, but they did have 13 years in power before they "collapsed pretty quickly".
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    As light relief before the next announcement, this is worth a watch, just for the sheer WTF.

    Live streaming in China is so insane.

    This woman is known for promoting the products she sells for less than 3 seconds each.

    On average she sells ~$19 million USD of products per week.

    https://twitter.com/mrexits/status/1723790074679091626
  • carnforth said:

    Gibb claims he jumped:

    "Over the last few weeks I have been discussing taking up a diplomatic role after the general election. To enable me to do so I have asked the Prime Minister if I can step down from the government at the reshuffle and he has agreed. 1/5"

    There may be more of this in the junior ranks as ministers look to start the Acoba clock on well-paid jobs after the election.
  • HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1724000199507423509

    NEW: arise Lord Call Me Dave

    Sources confirm Cameron IS Foreign Sec



    ITSSSSS HAPPPENINGGGGGGG!!!!

    How can Cameron be Foreign Secretary if he isn't an MP or even in the House of Lords now?
    He will be ennobled soon.

    Just like Mandy in 2008.
    Sky saying it can be done almost as soon as Sunak makes his request to the King
  • I will be campaigning for the Tories at the next general election.
  • OK so who had a 1000-1 punt on this?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Actually, with AI you could appoint anyone you like anywhere from history. Thatcher to Home Sec. Richard the Lionheart as Foreign Secretary thanks to his deep experience of the Levant. Vlad “the Impaler” Dracul as Schools Minister. Moominpappa as Business Sec (one for the Mumsnet crowd, there). Anus McPenis - a completely fictitious failed Scottish punk star, invented by me 13 seconds ago - as Deputy PM

    I mean, if you think this is currently possible or even potentially possible - I have a bridge in the metaverse I would love to sell you; it was designed by the same guy who made the most expensive bored ape
    It will soon be very possible

    You’ll be able to create an utterly convincing 3D avatar of historical and fictional characters - convincing, that is, on a screen (which is where we see politicians anyway). Voice cloning will give them totally plausible voices - see the fake Starmer and Obama audios

    AI can then be fed the entire intellectual output of these people - their writing, speeches, messages, memoirs, recorded conversations - and be told: think and act like this person

    Et voila. The dead are born again. You could have a Cabinet comprised of Abe Lincoln, Winston Churchill, Mahatma Gandhi, JFK, Elizabeth I, and Augustus Caesar

    Mad but true
    So much to say about this:

    "Convincing" is an interesting concept with historical figures, and increasingly so as you go back into history. What did Elizabeth 1st actually look like? Or (say) Shakespeare? What were their mannerisms? And it might be that you put the *real* EI or Shakespeare onto screen and it would seem fake; because everything was so different back then. Therefore the bar for 'convincing' is set more by current depictions of them on screen, than by what, and who, they actually were.

    Foe someone like Caesar, it's even more marked, as we know relatively little about him (compared to what is needed to produce anything like what he would have thought).

    Then there's the available text. LLM's require vast amounts of data t produce their results, and even the combined works of Shakespeare would not produce much that was good. Instead, you would have to merge it in with other contemporary and modern data. Which might mean it's more convincing, as it'd contain hints to modernity. But the ML would still not be thinking or acting like that person.
  • Suella sacked and Dave back would mean I’ve got my fucking party back.

    That may be so, but looking at the smoking wreckage of a formerly functioning, well-run, self-confident country playing it's role at the heart of Europe, a member of the single market with full freedom of movement for its citizens around their own continent, I am not delighted at all.

    Cameron and Osborne precipitated disaster for this country. Austerity and Brexit. What a legacy.
    Hahahahaha

    Britain never played its role at the heart fo Europe. Because it never had such a role. It was always rightly at odds with the scope and direction of the EU. The biggest mistake we ever made was abandoning the sensible policy of trying to keep Europe divided a la Humphrey Appleby.
    'The biggest mistake we ever made was abandoning the sensible policy of trying to keep Europe divided a la Humphrey Appleby'

    Delusional.

    You're a superb poster in many ways but on Brexit you're a crank. A utopian. A naif. Reactionaries like you and others on here held us back with your jingoism, your xenophobia and your misguided English exceptionalism. Our European clout is long gone, and people like you have only diminished us further. History will not be kind.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Bringing back Cameron after sacking Braverman is basically a Sunak declaration of war on the ERG. If he'd done it a year ago he might have won some credit. I doubt he will now.

    He must only be doing it for two reasons.

    (1) It polls well in saving seats and (2) He calculates the ERG are a busted flush and in no position to challenge him.

    First politically ballsy thing I've seen Sunak do in a long time.
    Yes I too admire the audacity. However it is ALSO a sign of total desperation, and he’s guaranteed trouble from the Tory right and RefUK - for the future

    I don’t think it will save him, and it means a civil war for the Tories down the line. But at least it’s interesting
  • Isn't it a complete shambles now?

    Why doesn't Rishi call the GE now and put everyone out of their misery??
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    ...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Nigelb said:

    As light relief before the next announcement, this is worth a watch, just for the sheer WTF.

    Live streaming in China is so insane.

    This woman is known for promoting the products she sells for less than 3 seconds each.

    On average she sells ~$19 million USD of products per week.

    https://twitter.com/mrexits/status/1723790074679091626

    Max Headroom did it better:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blipvert
  • Sandpit said:

    What price David Cameron as next leader of the Conservative Party?

    Wouldn’t he need to now resign from the Lords, to stand again for the Commons at the election?
    No, he could do it the other way round based on the Douglas-Home precedent. Get elected leader and then step down from the Lords to fight a safe seat.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1724000199507423509

    NEW: arise Lord Call Me Dave

    Sources confirm Cameron IS Foreign Sec



    ITSSSSS HAPPPENINGGGGGGG!!!!

    How can Cameron be Foreign Secretary if he isn't an MP or even in the House of Lords now?
    There is presumably some sort of emergency ennoblement kept on the shelf for such situations.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643

    Isn't it a complete shambles now?

    Why doesn't Rishi call the GE now and put everyone out of their misery??

    Maybe that's his next trick?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1724000199507423509

    NEW: arise Lord Call Me Dave

    Sources confirm Cameron IS Foreign Sec



    ITSSSSS HAPPPENINGGGGGGG!!!!

    REJOICE
    I await with eager anticipation your next header:

    Dave: The Saviour of the Nation
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    DougSeal said:

    Suella sacked and Dave back would mean I’ve got my fucking party back.

    That may be so, but looking at the smoking wreckage of a formerly functioning, well-run, self-confident country playing it's role at the heart of Europe, a member of the single market with full freedom of movement for its citizens around their own continent, I am not delighted at all.

    Cameron and Osborne precipitated disaster for this country. Austerity and Brexit. What a legacy.
    What's to stop anyone from this country moving anywhere they want in Europe ?

    As far as I know the ports and airports still operate.

    Go around the country and how have things changed since 2010 ? There's more housing and high streets look more run down than previously.

    For all the hyperbole things have changed little for most people - oldies are richer and graduates have more debt, houses are more expensive but jobs are more plentiful.
    "Freedom of Movement" tends to refer to the right of an EU citizen go an exercise economic rights (i.e. live and work) in any member state. It doesn't refer to the ability to spend a week's holiday. As you well know.
    Well yes, but it was only ever a tiny minority who went to work in another EU country. And it is only a minority of those who would want to who now cannot.
    Of the practical difficulties of moving abroad, whether or not freedom of movement applies is small beer. Realistically, 90% are just not going to work in the EU because they are monoglot Anglophones. And of the other 10%, if they have the skills, a way around the bureaucracy will be found, just as it would if they were to emigrate to Australia or New Zealand.
  • So Rishi wins the next election and falls under a bus shortly thereafter and Dave succeeds him.

    It is on.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Actually, with AI you could appoint anyone you like anywhere from history. Thatcher to Home Sec. Richard the Lionheart as Foreign Secretary thanks to his deep experience of the Levant. Vlad “the Impaler” Dracul as Schools Minister. Moominpappa as Business Sec (one for the Mumsnet crowd, there). Anus McPenis - a completely fictitious failed Scottish punk star, invented by me 13 seconds ago - as Deputy PM

    I mean, if you think this is currently possible or even potentially possible - I have a bridge in the metaverse I would love to sell you; it was designed by the same guy who made the most expensive bored ape
    It will soon be very possible

    You’ll be able to create an utterly convincing 3D avatar of historical and fictional characters - convincing, that is, on a screen (which is where we see politicians anyway). Voice cloning will give them totally plausible voices - see the fake Starmer and Obama audios

    AI can then be fed the entire intellectual output of these people - their writing, speeches, messages, memoirs, recorded conversations - and be told: think and act like this person

    Et voila. The dead are born again. You could have a Cabinet comprised of Abe Lincoln, Winston Churchill, Mahatma Gandhi, JFK, Elizabeth I, and Augustus Caesar

    Mad but true
    No, you will have a simulacrum of them that is able to do a good impression - it is much more Madam Tussaud's or the Disney Hall of Presidents then it is a real person or intellect. AI is a parrot (with no disrespect to the actual intelligence of parrots) that can learn a script, and a style of writing, that is all. It cannot create. You can give it the works of Lincoln or Churchill and what it will churn out will maybe sound real, but it won't mean anything.
    I’m torn here

    You’re entirely wrong but you’re SO wrong it’s clear you have no idea what you’re talking about and you wouldn’t even understand if I tried to explain

    So, meh
    Yes, that's such a clear argument you made there, much like your "my IQ is too high for PBers to understand me" position and the constant sourcing of Oli London - it makes it very clear that your opinions are very well informed.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1724000199507423509

    NEW: arise Lord Call Me Dave

    Sources confirm Cameron IS Foreign Sec



    ITSSSSS HAPPPENINGGGGGGG!!!!

    Cameron probably needs the money after the Greensill debacle.
    Surely Opposition parties wouldn't dare bring up Greensill in any election campaign.
  • When my MP asked me what it would take to get me to vote Tory again, I hadn't realised that my answers would have such a dramatic effect.

    Your reaction and that of @TheScreamingEagles sort of shows why he's done it.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Leon said:

    Bringing back Cameron after sacking Braverman is basically a Sunak declaration of war on the ERG. If he'd done it a year ago he might have won some credit. I doubt he will now.

    He must only be doing it for two reasons.

    (1) It polls well in saving seats and (2) He calculates the ERG are a busted flush and in no position to challenge him.

    First politically ballsy thing I've seen Sunak do in a long time.
    Yes I too admire the audacity. However it is ALSO a sign of total desperation, and he’s guaranteed trouble from the Tory right and RefUK - for the future

    I don’t think it will save him, and it means a civil war for the Tories down the line. But at least it’s interesting
    It does - and positions the cabinet quite far to the left of the membership, who will be selecting a *lot* of new candidates at the next GE as more and more Gibb types step down.
This discussion has been closed.