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Can there be anything more symbolic than Monday’s Indy front page? – politicalbetting.com

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  • I have to say that, notwithstanding my health issues, this morning's news of the sacking of Braverman and being replaced with Cleverly and the likely appointment of Cameron as Foreign Secretary has greatly pleased me,as I see it as Sunak moving the party away from the right towards the centre
  • OK so who had a 1000-1 punt on this?

    God, I wish I had.

    I would have poured cold water on the idea (unless above 80/1) as well.
  • DougSeal said:

    Suella sacked and Dave back would mean I’ve got my fucking party back.

    That may be so, but looking at the smoking wreckage of a formerly functioning, well-run, self-confident country playing it's role at the heart of Europe, a member of the single market with full freedom of movement for its citizens around their own continent, I am not delighted at all.

    Cameron and Osborne precipitated disaster for this country. Austerity and Brexit. What a legacy.
    What's to stop anyone from this country moving anywhere they want in Europe ?

    As far as I know the ports and airports still operate.

    Go around the country and how have things changed since 2010 ? There's more housing and high streets look more run down than previously.

    For all the hyperbole things have changed little for most people - oldies are richer and graduates have more debt, houses are more expensive but jobs are more plentiful.
    "Freedom of Movement" tends to refer to the right of an EU citizen go an exercise economic rights (i.e. live and work) in any member state. It doesn't refer to the ability to spend a week's holiday. As you well know.
    So how many British people have been stopped from migrating to another European country ?

    Now perhaps some career criminals and layabouts have been stopped but is any EU country blocking Britons with skills and/or money - those being the people who have always emigrated to the EU previously.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    When my MP asked me what it would take to get me to vote Tory again, I hadn't realised that my answers would have such a dramatic effect.

    Your reaction and that of @TheScreamingEagles sort of shows why he's done it.
    But that requires Rishi to have political instincts. He hasn't shown much of that in the last year.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Suella sacked and Dave back would mean I’ve got my fucking party back.

    That may be so, but looking at the smoking wreckage of a formerly functioning, well-run, self-confident country playing it's role at the heart of Europe, a member of the single market with full freedom of movement for its citizens around their own continent, I am not delighted at all.

    Cameron and Osborne precipitated disaster for this country. Austerity and Brexit. What a legacy.
    Hahahahaha

    Britain never played its role at the heart fo Europe. Because it never had such a role. It was always rightly at odds with the scope and direction of the EU. The biggest mistake we ever made was abandoning the sensible policy of trying to keep Europe divided a la Humphrey Appleby.
    Oh FFS. This crap again. We proposed. advocated and led the creation of the Single Market and the eastern expansion of the EU. The only major development we were at odds with in the last 30 years was the creation of the Euro. Brexit was founded on lies like this.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,072
    This is your infrequent reminder that although there is a strong convention that a Cabinet member must be in Parliament, it is a convention not a rule and has been broken before. Wikipedia mentions Patrick Gordon Walker[1] in the 60s but Churchill also appointed Richard G. Casey, later Baron Casey[2] during WWII

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_of_the_United_Kingdom
    [2] https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmpubadm/330/330.pdf
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    DougSeal said:

    I thought the messaging from Rishi was that he was somehow going to position himself as the change candidate. Isn't bringing back Dave kinda reminding everyone that this is, in fact, the same party that's been in charge for 13 years. Also, were there not any MPs good enough for the job?

    Rishi's issue, barring more black swans, is what sort of future there is for the Tory party. A Tory party fit for Braverman is not going to win elections. Probably a centrist one can't either - the damage is too great. But if a decent centrist team is in place, ready to bring back the exiles and look for the centrist vote, then the party is not lost.

    Braverman and the Home office have been conspicuous and deadly both in their incompetence and their horribleness.

    Suppose the Tory party started saying 'Refugees in boats and elsewhere are a tiny part of a world problem. We take thousands. The rest of the world takes millions. Anyway we need them to pick soft fruit because we won't do it. Get over it'.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    So Rishi wins the next election and falls under a bus shortly thereafter and Dave succeeds him.

    It is on.

    The most catastrophic enobled Prime Minister since before Lord North.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Bruxelles, Kiev or Tall Abib for Dave's first trip? That will say a lot about his priorities...
  • I am so happy right now.
  • When my MP asked me what it would take to get me to vote Tory again, I hadn't realised that my answers would have such a dramatic effect.

    Your reaction and that of @TheScreamingEagles sort of shows why he's done it.
    It probably won't be enough in my case to change my vote, though.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    So Rishi wins the next election and falls under a bus shortly thereafter and Dave succeeds him.

    It is on.

    Nah. Truss succeeds Rishi.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    We will know this the last stand of the coalition-istas when David Gauke turns up.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Suspect the odious Suella will now disappear into near obscurity a la Patel. The latest in a long line of thick nutters visited on the country by a clapped-out party.

    Had to smile at this. I don’t normally enjoy invective but in this case it’s richly deserved.

    What an awful, awful, individual she is.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    Cleverley as HS is not a bad move. He seems semi house trained at least
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Suella sacked and Dave back would mean I’ve got my fucking party back.

    That may be so, but looking at the smoking wreckage of a formerly functioning, well-run, self-confident country playing it's role at the heart of Europe, a member of the single market with full freedom of movement for its citizens around their own continent, I am not delighted at all.

    Cameron and Osborne precipitated disaster for this country. Austerity and Brexit. What a legacy.
    Hahahahaha

    Britain never played its role at the heart fo Europe. Because it never had such a role. It was always rightly at odds with the scope and direction of the EU. The biggest mistake we ever made was abandoning the sensible policy of trying to keep Europe divided a la Humphrey Appleby.
    'The biggest mistake we ever made was abandoning the sensible policy of trying to keep Europe divided a la Humphrey Appleby'

    Delusional.

    You're a superb poster in many ways but on Brexit you're a crank. A utopian. A naif. Reactionaries like you and others on here held us back with your jingoism, your xenophobia and your misguided English exceptionalism. Our European clout is long gone, and people like you have only diminished us further. History will not be kind.
    You’re calling HIM a crank when you’ve just described Britain as “a pile of smoking wreckage”?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1724000199507423509

    NEW: arise Lord Call Me Dave

    Sources confirm Cameron IS Foreign Sec



    ITSSSSS HAPPPENINGGGGGGG!!!!

    How can Cameron be Foreign Secretary if he isn't an MP or even in the House of Lords now?
    He will be ennobled soon.

    Just like Mandy in 2008.
    Whens Nick Clegg coming back ?
    I'm sure his facebook status will tell us....
  • Cameron is Foreign Secretary
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    Dura_Ace said:

    Bruxelles, Kiev or Tall Abib for Dave's first trip? That will say a lot about his priorities...

    Washington ?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    I have to say that, notwithstanding my health issues, this morning's news of the sacking of Braverman and being replaced with Cleverly and the likely appointment of Cameron as Foreign Secretary has greatly pleased me,as I see it as Sunak moving the party away from the right towards the centre

    I hope you are okay Big G? That’s a concerning remark.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Cameron is Foreign Secretary

    Wow

    Well, that’s not a bad appointment.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited November 2023

    OK so who had a 1000-1 punt on this?

    God, I wish I had.

    I would have poured cold water on the idea (unless above 80/1) as well.
    To be clear, I didn't, and wouldn't have even at 1000-1.
  • Cameron is Foreign Secretary

    Arise Lord Pigfucker of Greensill.

    Seriously though, a brilliant appointment by Sunak.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Disgraceful by Sunak making this appointment whilst the King over the water is, err over the water and in the outback.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    On one hand Cameron coming back could help the Tories . The opposition though have plenty of attack lines ready to go especially on Cameron’s financial affairs , it also looks a bit desperate.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Yes, Cammo as FS
  • Cameron is Foreign Secretary

    Not something I was expecting when I woke up this morning! I suspect that will be a common feeling among most others too!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    Labour quite quick off the mark this morning, with an email on Braverman's sacking out to all members. The text includes:
    They're so desperate, there are even rumours that David Cameron may come back as Foreign Secretary!

    Labour so desperate that it will be popular in the Blue Wall.....
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Cookie said:

    DougSeal said:

    Suella sacked and Dave back would mean I’ve got my fucking party back.

    That may be so, but looking at the smoking wreckage of a formerly functioning, well-run, self-confident country playing it's role at the heart of Europe, a member of the single market with full freedom of movement for its citizens around their own continent, I am not delighted at all.

    Cameron and Osborne precipitated disaster for this country. Austerity and Brexit. What a legacy.
    What's to stop anyone from this country moving anywhere they want in Europe ?

    As far as I know the ports and airports still operate.

    Go around the country and how have things changed since 2010 ? There's more housing and high streets look more run down than previously.

    For all the hyperbole things have changed little for most people - oldies are richer and graduates have more debt, houses are more expensive but jobs are more plentiful.
    "Freedom of Movement" tends to refer to the right of an EU citizen go an exercise economic rights (i.e. live and work) in any member state. It doesn't refer to the ability to spend a week's holiday. As you well know.
    Well yes, but it was only ever a tiny minority who went to work in another EU country. And it is only a minority of those who would want to who now cannot.
    Of the practical difficulties of moving abroad, whether or not freedom of movement applies is small beer. Realistically, 90% are just not going to work in the EU because they are monoglot Anglophones. And of the other 10%, if they have the skills, a way around the bureaucracy will be found, just as it would if they were to emigrate to Australia or New Zealand.
    It would be ok if the countries in the deal had the same pull factor going both ways, but FOM with Eastern Europe just meant cheap Labour for British bosses, and competition for jobs, schools, doctors appointments at the low end of the wage scale, with no Brits making the opposite journey. That’s a large part of why we voted to Leave
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,915
    DougSeal said:

    So Rishi wins the next election and falls under a bus shortly thereafter and Dave succeeds him.

    It is on.

    Nah. Truss succeeds Rishi.
    Braverman is more likely to succeed Rishi than either of them if he loses the next election, she will now be on the backbenches hoping Starmer heavily defeats him and preparing her revenge
  • Fucking yes!!!



  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    "David Cameron made foreign secretary

    It's just been announced that David Cameron, the former prime minister, is the new foreign secretary.

    Cameron replaces James Cleverly who, as we reported earlier, is the new home secretary.

    This reshuffle was sparked by the sacking of Suella Braverman this morning, days after she wrote a controversial article in The Times newspaper, criticising the Met Police.

    It was later confirmed she had ignored advice from No 10 to make changes to the article."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-67370421
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    No hereditary earldom for Cameron? Shame.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Personally I think Cleverly is godawful.

    But Cameron as FS is a very good move. The kind of thing this ineffective Sunak should have done when he first became PM. It’s clear there was a deal with the devil incarnate for the far right loony mob’s vote.
  • Fucking yes!!!



    Does this mean that you are voting CON again?
  • Heathener said:

    I have to say that, notwithstanding my health issues, this morning's news of the sacking of Braverman and being replaced with Cleverly and the likely appointment of Cameron as Foreign Secretary has greatly pleased me,as I see it as Sunak moving the party away from the right towards the centre

    I hope you are okay Big G? That’s a concerning remark.
    Thank you @Heathener for your kind comment and I do have health issues following my recent DVT but am under 2 consultants who I have great faith in

    And the King announces Cameron's peerage
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    King has confirmed Dave is A Peer of the realm.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,662

    Fucking yes!!!



    Yes? Yesterday's man more like.
  • nico679 said:

    On one hand Cameron coming back could help the Tories . The opposition though have plenty of attack lines ready to go especially on Cameron’s financial affairs , it also looks a bit desperate.

    I don't see how it helps them very much, frankly. I think they lose more on the right than they will gain to the centre. But, however much I disagree with them, it's good news for the state of the national discourse to have four relatively sane people in charge of the great offices of state. It's hard to see us leaving the ECHR now, for example.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2023
    I think the betting on Lab maj should move on the back of this. 1.36 is a nice lay I reckon
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    Cameron is Foreign Secretary

    A bit like Lord Mandelson coming back in 2008 for the end of Labours run...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    edited November 2023

    Fucking yes!!!



    Does this mean that you are voting CON again?
    Hell yes.

    I could only ever support a government that Dave was a part of.

    Me voting against Dave? Never happening apart from the AV referendum.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 993
    Cameron's entries in the HoL register of interests should make interesting reading....
  • DougSeal said:

    Suella sacked and Dave back would mean I’ve got my fucking party back.

    That may be so, but looking at the smoking wreckage of a formerly functioning, well-run, self-confident country playing it's role at the heart of Europe, a member of the single market with full freedom of movement for its citizens around their own continent, I am not delighted at all.

    Cameron and Osborne precipitated disaster for this country. Austerity and Brexit. What a legacy.
    Hahahahaha

    Britain never played its role at the heart fo Europe. Because it never had such a role. It was always rightly at odds with the scope and direction of the EU. The biggest mistake we ever made was abandoning the sensible policy of trying to keep Europe divided a la Humphrey Appleby.
    Oh FFS. This crap again. We proposed. advocated and led the creation of the Single Market and the eastern expansion of the EU. The only major development we were at odds with in the last 30 years was the creation of the Euro. Brexit was founded on lies like this.
    To put it politely, that is utter bollocks. If that were the case we would not have fought so hard against so many EU proposals and have had to get so many opt outs in different areas.

    I will be polite and call your claims myths rather than outright lies.
  • Jeremy Hunt stays as Chancellor according to Sky.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,624
    lol. I’ve just landed back in the UK to the news of Cameron’s comeback. I did say that Sunak needed the equivalent of Brown recalling Peter Mandelson, but didn’t expect that.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited November 2023

    Fucking yes!!!



    Aside from your Leonesque love-in, I don’t think a Foreign Secretary appointment has ever shifted voting intentions. It’s a very good appointment for the country, rather than the party.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    "Michael Fabricant 🇬🇧🇮🇱🇺🇦
    @Mike_Fabricant

    Cameron will bring much needed heft to the role of Foreign Secretary. But, while not unknown in the past, the appointment of someone not an MP means he will not be accountable to MPs in the House of Commons Chamber. Many will question this.'

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant/status/1724004862608732385
  • Leon said:

    Suella sacked and Dave back would mean I’ve got my fucking party back.

    That may be so, but looking at the smoking wreckage of a formerly functioning, well-run, self-confident country playing it's role at the heart of Europe, a member of the single market with full freedom of movement for its citizens around their own continent, I am not delighted at all.

    Cameron and Osborne precipitated disaster for this country. Austerity and Brexit. What a legacy.
    Hahahahaha

    Britain never played its role at the heart fo Europe. Because it never had such a role. It was always rightly at odds with the scope and direction of the EU. The biggest mistake we ever made was abandoning the sensible policy of trying to keep Europe divided a la Humphrey Appleby.
    'The biggest mistake we ever made was abandoning the sensible policy of trying to keep Europe divided a la Humphrey Appleby'

    Delusional.

    You're a superb poster in many ways but on Brexit you're a crank. A utopian. A naif. Reactionaries like you and others on here held us back with your jingoism, your xenophobia and your misguided English exceptionalism. Our European clout is long gone, and people like you have only diminished us further. History will not be kind.
    You’re calling HIM a crank when you’ve just described Britain as “a pile of smoking wreckage”?
    Its odd how some people seem to boast about living in the worst shitholes in the country.

    Well I assume they live in the worst shitholes because there descriptions of life bear little resemblance to where most of the country lives.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    The Football Association has launched an investigation into one of its own council members, who has been forced to apologise for saying that “Adolf Hitler would be proud of Benjamin Netanyahu”.

    Wasim Haq, who joined the FA as a “BAME Football Communities Representative” in 2019, sparked fury after commenting on social media about Israel’s war with Hamas. Haq, who also holds positions with England Golf and the Lawn Tennis Association, deleted the post and denied that he is antisemitic.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fa-to-investigate-council-member-over-hitler-proud-of-netanyahu-post/ar-AA1jOsYU?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=b3844c6ad5c14d9893770c912ecf0d95&ei=11
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    With no cricket, and absolutely foul weather, I'd been wondering how to entertain myself today.
    Now I know.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Heathener said:

    I have to say that, notwithstanding my health issues, this morning's news of the sacking of Braverman and being replaced with Cleverly and the likely appointment of Cameron as Foreign Secretary has greatly pleased me,as I see it as Sunak moving the party away from the right towards the centre

    I hope you are okay Big G? That’s a concerning remark.
    Thank you @Heathener for your kind comment and I do have health issues following my recent DVT but am under 2 consultants who I have great faith in

    And the King announces Cameron's peerage
    Very best wishes with that Big G. I’m glad you are in the hands of good consultants.

    xx
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,662
    edited November 2023

    When my MP asked me what it would take to get me to vote Tory again, I hadn't realised that my answers would have such a dramatic effect.

    Your reaction and that of @TheScreamingEagles sort of shows why he's done it.
    It probably won't be enough in my case to change my vote, though.
    Will HYUFD be back on to tell us how the Tories will now haemorrhage even more votes to RefUK or will he tow the party line?

    Edit: I see I am too late. Surprisingly lukewarm reception from Captain Mainwaring.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    Heathener said:

    Fucking yes!!!



    Aside from your Leonesque love-in, I don’t think a Foreign Secretary appointment has ever shifted voting intentions. It’s a very good appointment for the country, rather than the party.

    So what has the incumbent done so badly then ?

    Cleverley seems to be one of the few who was actually competent.
  • Cameron the first former PM as Foreign Secretary since Sir Alec Douglas-Home.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    The last year and change in tech has been: metaverse, crypto, NFTs, and now AI. The tech industry is lurching from one pump and dump scam to the next. AI has the most legs, mostly because it could probably replace a lot of very low value jobs in admin and management, and will allow neoliberal technocrats to go "it wasn't us who made the decision, it was the AI" and can relieve their guilty consciences. A new priest like class will emerge who can correctly interpret the will of the AI, and it will magically be in line with market capitalism. Not because market capitalism is correct, but because the AI will be told it is correct.

    An AI minister for Health will be all up for NHS privatisation - why wouldn't it when the vast majority of inputs will be put in by people who believe the private sector is the solution and government is the problem? An AI minister for the Environment will advise to wait for carbon capture - it won't be able to tell you how to make it work, but because the inputs won't include a radical redistribution of wealth, why would it suggest it?

    Paris Marx is a very good writer on these topics; I've been following their work for a while. I first learned about their work via TrashFuture, a great techno-cynicalist (the opposite of techno-optimist) podcast that has followed the ups and downs of the tech bro markets.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    Baron Cameron of Greensill ?
  • The last foreign secretary in the Lords had to resign in disgrace after British territory was invaded.

    Hopefully not to be repeated.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Go Rishi ... bring back George
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    Heathener said:

    I have to say that, notwithstanding my health issues, this morning's news of the sacking of Braverman and being replaced with Cleverly and the likely appointment of Cameron as Foreign Secretary has greatly pleased me,as I see it as Sunak moving the party away from the right towards the centre

    I hope you are okay Big G? That’s a concerning remark.
    Thank you @Heathener for your kind comment and I do have health issues following my recent DVT but am under 2 consultants who I have great faith in

    Sorry to hear you've had DVT, Big G. Hope you're better soon my friend.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    Cameron back???

    Well, that should piss off Johnson.

    What went on yesterday with drinks after the wreaths?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    I have to say that, notwithstanding my health issues, this morning's news of the sacking of Braverman and being replaced with Cleverly and the likely appointment of Cameron as Foreign Secretary has greatly pleased me,as I see it as Sunak moving the party away from the right towards the centre

    I hope you are okay Big G? That’s a concerning remark.
    Thank you @Heathener for your kind comment and I do have health issues following my recent DVT but am under 2 consultants who I have great faith in

    And the King announces Cameron's peerage
    Very best wishes with that Big G. I’m glad you are in the hands of good consultants.

    xx
    p.s. horrible thing to have @Big_G_NorthWales but thank goodness they caught it. Very best wishes for your speedy and full recovery.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    So with two wars in flight who answers questions in the HoC?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,915
    Jonathan said:

    If the Tories tack to the centre with unelected retreads and still lose, the headbangers own the future outright. It’s a big gamble.

    Correct when Brown brought Mandelson back to Cabinet and made him a Lord in late 2008 it was a firm attempt by him to shift his government back to the centre and closer towards New Labour.

    However while Mandelson increased the competence of the government it didn't help Brown at the 2010 general election, Labour still lost with just 29% of the vote. The left of the party were then able to present the defeat as a firm rejection of New Labour and shift the party further left, first with Ed Miliband defeating David Miliband for leader and then with Corbyn becoming leader in 2015.

    Sunak's cabinet with Hunt and Cameron in the top tier is now a clear shift back to the centre and the Cameron era, if however it still leads the Tories to defeat the right and ERG can then portray that as a firm rejection of Cameronism by the voters and then begin to take back control of the party
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2023
    Rightly or wrongly, it is amazing to see the host of a breakfast tv show to talk to a guest like this

    https://x.com/archrose90/status/1723982498646925470?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    It appears Cabinet will be meeting without Coffey.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    Interesting to know whether Tommy Robinson was the rod that broke the camels back. It was obvious when he was seen with his skinheads clambering over the Cenotaph that the image was one Sunak couldn't live with.Had it happened a year ago it might have made a difference
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    Heathener said:

    Fucking yes!!!



    Aside from your Leonesque love-in, I don’t think a Foreign Secretary appointment has ever shifted voting intentions. It’s a very good appointment for the country, rather than the party.

    I think getting rid of the most divisive Home Secretary of our times will help the Tory VI
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375

    When my MP asked me what it would take to get me to vote Tory again, I hadn't realised that my answers would have such a dramatic effect.

    Your reaction and that of @TheScreamingEagles sort of shows why he's done it.
    It probably won't be enough in my case to change my vote, though.
    Will HYUFD be back on to tell us how the Tories will now haemorrhage even more votes to RefUK or will he tow the party line?

    Edit: I see I am too late. Surprisingly lukewarm reception from Captain Mainwaring.
    It's a good question though. Which will be the greater number: those on the (far) right who now will definitely not vote Tory, or the One-Nation Tories who come back from DK or LD or Lab? Hard to tell at this stage, obviously.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    It appears Cabinet will be meeting without Coffey.

    Tea only?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited November 2023
    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Actually, with AI you could appoint anyone you like anywhere from history. Thatcher to Home Sec. Richard the Lionheart as Foreign Secretary thanks to his deep experience of the Levant. Vlad “the Impaler” Dracul as Schools Minister. Moominpappa as Business Sec (one for the Mumsnet crowd, there). Anus McPenis - a completely fictitious failed Scottish punk star, invented by me 13 seconds ago - as Deputy PM

    I mean, if you think this is currently possible or even potentially possible - I have a bridge in the metaverse I would love to sell you; it was designed by the same guy who made the most expensive bored ape
    It will soon be very possible

    You’ll be able to create an utterly convincing 3D avatar of historical and fictional characters - convincing, that is, on a screen (which is where we see politicians anyway). Voice cloning will give them totally plausible voices - see the fake Starmer and Obama audios

    AI can then be fed the entire intellectual output of these people - their writing, speeches, messages, memoirs, recorded conversations - and be told: think and act like this person

    Et voila. The dead are born again. You could have a Cabinet comprised of Abe Lincoln, Winston Churchill, Mahatma Gandhi, JFK, Elizabeth I, and Augustus Caesar

    Mad but true
    No, you will have a simulacrum of them that is able to do a good impression - it is much more Madam Tussaud's or the Disney Hall of Presidents then it is a real person or intellect. AI is a parrot (with no disrespect to the actual intelligence of parrots) that can learn a script, and a style of writing, that is all. It cannot create. You can give it the works of Lincoln or Churchill and what it will churn out will maybe sound real, but it won't mean anything.
    I’m torn here

    You’re entirely wrong but you’re SO wrong it’s clear you have no idea what you’re talking about and you wouldn’t even understand if I tried to explain

    So, meh
    Yes, that's such a clear argument you made there, much like your "my IQ is too high for PBers to understand me" position and the constant sourcing of Oli London - it makes it very clear that your opinions are very well informed.
    The IQ thing is true, I’ve looked into it. If you have an IQ north of 140 (eg, me) you will think in a way that is not only different to others but indecipherable to many. Because the smarter person is about five chess moves ahead, people lower down the rankings literally don’t understand what you’re on about and may never get it

    The theory is at its most interesting when the stupider person has a higher than average intelligence but nothing exceptional - 115 say (ie, you). These people can vaguely grasp what the smarter person is maybe on about but they resist it, because they don’t understand the logical leaps, so it challenges them and makes them uneasy

    The dumb person (under 100 IQ) does NOT resist because they simply accept the smarter person is smarter, and don’t bother worrying about it

    This not only explains much of PB, it actually explains much of human history. For instance, it explains why ludicrously off-the-dial geniuses (IQ over 165) often fail in life (despite being so gifted). They appear SO alien and so inexplicable, others shun them, and these megabrains get angrily frustrated at the slowness of their brethren so they have thwarted careers. They’re not collegiate

    I’ll try and find you a simplified version of the theory, so you can read it slowly, and eventually grasp it, maybe
  • Tom Hamilton @thhamilton

    David Cameron is Britain's first Remainer Foreign Secretary since Liz Truss.


    [Tom Hamilton is good value, BTW - well worth following]
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986

    nico679 said:

    On one hand Cameron coming back could help the Tories . The opposition though have plenty of attack lines ready to go especially on Cameron’s financial affairs , it also looks a bit desperate.

    I don't see how it helps them very much, frankly. I think they lose more on the right than they will gain to the centre. But, however much I disagree with them, it's good news for the state of the national discourse to have four relatively sane people in charge of the great offices of state. It's hard to see us leaving the ECHR now, for example.

    More to the point I don't see Sunak abandoning the culture wars. They're pretty much all the Tories have because there's no way they're going to win the argument on economy. So what does Suella's sacking and Cameron's arrival actually change posture-wise? Perhaps a softening of the more extreme rhetoric or silly sidelines like homeless tents, which in itself would be helpful.

    They will still want to fight on small boats, cutting the green crap and woke blob stuff. The u-turn on net zero is very much Sunak's baby, not something the likes of Braverman were ever particularly interested in.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    Jonathan said:

    So with two wars in flight who answers questions in the HoC?

    Good question
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155


    Sunak, chasing that... net -40% popularity rating. (TBF it is the same as Sunak's own rating, so he is unlikely to be outshined).
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    On behalf of my fellow Witney constituents I humbly apologise for inflicting Cameron upon the country.
  • Cameron's foreign policy past being raked over. Loved China and wanted to bomb the Middle East.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Baron Cameron of Greensill ?

    Is Cameron still connected with Greensill and Gupta ?

    Given that the steel industry is negotiating for investment subsidies there would be a conflict of interest there.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Heathener said:

    I have to say that, notwithstanding my health issues, this morning's news of the sacking of Braverman and being replaced with Cleverly and the likely appointment of Cameron as Foreign Secretary has greatly pleased me,as I see it as Sunak moving the party away from the right towards the centre

    I hope you are okay Big G? That’s a concerning remark.
    Thank you @Heathener for your kind comment and I do have health issues following my recent DVT but am under 2 consultants who I have great faith in

    Sorry to hear you've had DVT, Big G. Hope you're better soon my friend.
    Thank you and I do have some complex health issues but have a good medical team at the hospital who I have great confidence in
  • Suella sacked and Dave back would mean I’ve got my fucking party back.

    That may be so, but looking at the smoking wreckage of a formerly functioning, well-run, self-confident country playing it's role at the heart of Europe, a member of the single market with full freedom of movement for its citizens around their own continent, I am not delighted at all.

    Cameron and Osborne precipitated disaster for this country. Austerity and Brexit. What a legacy.
    Hahahahaha

    Britain never played its role at the heart fo Europe. Because it never had such a role. It was always rightly at odds with the scope and direction of the EU. The biggest mistake we ever made was abandoning the sensible policy of trying to keep Europe divided a la Humphrey Appleby.
    'The biggest mistake we ever made was abandoning the sensible policy of trying to keep Europe divided a la Humphrey Appleby'

    Delusional.

    You're a superb poster in many ways but on Brexit you're a crank. A utopian. A naif. Reactionaries like you and others on here held us back with your jingoism, your xenophobia and your misguided English exceptionalism. Our European clout is long gone, and people like you have only diminished us further. History will not be kind.
    Actually for once I do object to that. There is no xenophobia at all. Indeed I am one of the few people who wants proper freedom of movement for everyone not just the members of a closed white European club.

    No jingoism nor exceptionlism either. My objections to the EU have always been based on its centralisation and lack of democratic accountability.

    Sadly you are a classic example of those who put their own personal dedires ahead of the good of the country and who thinks that the white European exceptionalism is an acceptable form of racism.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,662

    The country is going to the dogs.

    Fucking yes!!!


    You nailed it first time.
  • Jonathan said:

    So with two wars in flight who answers questions in the HoC?

    No-one answers questions in the HoC anymore anyway. Someone else can read the pre-prepared script to the question they wish they had been asked.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    When was the last time a major cabinet position was held by someone not in the HoC?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    Call me Dave.

    First as tragedy, then as farce?

    Time will tell...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    isam said:

    Rightly or wrongly, it is amazing to see the host of a breakfast tv show to talk to a guest like this

    https://x.com/archrose90/status/1723982498646925470?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    He's not wrong
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    David Cameron a life Peer
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Pulpstar said:

    Baron Cameron of Greensill ?

    The press are already looking at what Call me Dave has been up to recently.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    It appears Cabinet will be meeting without Coffey.

    Biscuits?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    edited November 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    If the Tories tack to the centre with unelected retreads and still lose, the headbangers own the future outright. It’s a big gamble.

    Correct when Brown brought Mandelson back to Cabinet and made him a Lord in late 2008 it was a firm attempt by him to shift his government back to the centre and closer towards New Labour.

    However while Mandelson increased the competence of the government it didn't help Brown at the 2010 general election, Labour still lost with just 29% of the vote. The left of the party were then able to present the defeat as a firm rejection of New Labour and shift the party further left, first with Ed Miliband defeating David Miliband for leader and then with Corbyn becoming leader in 2015.

    Sunak's cabinet with Hunt and Cameron in the top tier is now a clear shift back to the centre and the Cameron era, if however it still leads the Tories to defeat the right and ERG can then portray that as a firm rejection of Cameronism by the voters and then begin to take back control of the party
    You sound like Corbyn desperately clinging to the past
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited November 2023

    Heathener said:

    I have to say that, notwithstanding my health issues, this morning's news of the sacking of Braverman and being replaced with Cleverly and the likely appointment of Cameron as Foreign Secretary has greatly pleased me,as I see it as Sunak moving the party away from the right towards the centre

    I hope you are okay Big G? That’s a concerning remark.
    Thank you @Heathener for your kind comment and I do have health issues following my recent DVT but am under 2 consultants who I have great faith in

    And the King announces Cameron's peerage
    Good to see you back in the ring @Big_G_NorthWales
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    On behalf of my fellow Witney constituents I humbly apologise for inflicting Cameron upon the country.

    Pah..
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    So, the big question is: will Farage still be welcomed back into the Tory Party with open arms?
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    edited November 2023
    Taz said:

    The Football Association has launched an investigation into one of its own council members, who has been forced to apologise for saying that “Adolf Hitler would be proud of Benjamin Netanyahu”.

    Wasim Haq, who joined the FA as a “BAME Football Communities Representative” in 2019, sparked fury after commenting on social media about Israel’s war with Hamas. Haq, who also holds positions with England Golf and the Lawn Tennis Association, deleted the post and denied that he is antisemitic.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fa-to-investigate-council-member-over-hitler-proud-of-netanyahu-post/ar-AA1jOsYU?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=b3844c6ad5c14d9893770c912ecf0d95&ei=11

    I mean Netanyahu literally argues that Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jewish people until a Muslim convinced him to, which might have hurt Adolf's feelings but does try to paint him as a lesser anti-Semitic evil.

    A source for this: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-netanyahu-hitler-idUSKCN0SF15120151021
  • Jobs for the boys.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    edited November 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    Baron Cameron of Greensill ?

    Baron of Beijing surely
  • So, the big question is: will Farage still be welcomed back into the Tory Party with open arms?

    At some point yes.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908

    Jobs for the boys.

    Are you referring to the fact that the four great offices of state are now womanless?
  • Cameron pretending he thinks Brexit is a great idea will be amusing.

    I'm sure he'll manage the Brexit is now over and we must seek to build a better relationship with the EU guff quite fluently, possibly more fluently than the current main proponent of said guff.
This discussion has been closed.