Linking the two: risk is the situation in the Middle-East drags or for months or escalates, creating another energy catastrophe and drives up gas and oil prices.
Again.
Very difficult for the UK Government. And us.
Other than diplomacy and minor military assets not much we can do.
Start fracking.
Has the Geology of the UK changed overnight?
Fracking simply doesn't make sense in the UK....
The companies that want to spend their own money fracking when they're currently banned from doing so must know less about it than you then I suppose.
Have you ever heard the definition of a gold mine?
It's a hole in the ground with a liar standing next to it.
The management of oil and gas companies, and who have millions of share options, will tell you all kinds of stories. The seismic is always amazing, the core samples are highly promising, and the geology looks *exactly* like AN Other oily/gassy place.
That's because if they strike oil/gas, then the executives get rich. And if they do not, then it is the investors that lose all their money.
I know this, because I was an oil & gas investor for a long time.
While I fully support removing the ban, your willingness to ignore all the evidence is quite remarkable, even for PB.
The companies in question had lost 99% of their market value even before the ban on fracking, because of the two dozen or so hydraulically fractured wells drilled in the UK, exactly zero found commercially exploitable quantities of oil and natural gas.
I am glad we're on the same page regarding the ban. I don't see the various other areas of disagreement as important. If it works, great. It could solve a vast amount of national problems. If it doesn't, great - we'll all know. If that results in investors losing money they have speculated, I'm comfortable with it, trusting that they have broad enough portfolios and will be fine.
I've never supported a ban, I just think the chance of shale/tight gas being commercially viable in the UK is as close to zero as makes no difference.
There are plenty of more interesting unconventional hydrocarbon opportunities in the UK. I'm personally a fan of in situ gasification of undersea coal reserves for example.
It's true, pre-schools against Hamas should have done a lot more.
It makes no difference. Whether Hamas have popular support or not, they are the de facto government of Gaza, and so Israel is at war against Gaza as a whole, rather than just the terrorist group Hamas in particular. This is a war, rather than a police counter-terrorist operation.
And yet, for all that, Israel is still under an obligation to avoid targeting civilians. Hamas, of course, have no objective except to maximise civilian casualties.
It's true, pre-schools against Hamas should have done a lot more.
It makes no difference. Whether Hamas have popular support or not, they are the de facto government of Gaza, and so Israel is at war against Gaza as a whole, rather than just the terrorist group Hamas in particular. This is a war, rather than a police counter-terrorist operation.
And yet, for all that, Israel is still under an obligation to avoid targeting civilians. Hamas, of course, have no objective except to maximise civilian casualties.
Are they the de facto government of Gaza? Most of the world seems to think Gaza has been and remains under de facto Israeli occupation.
They're pretty ignorant then if so, why would Israel need to be entering Gaza if they were already occupying it?
I guess they think a government usually has control over its own airspace and territorial waters and borders, for example.
Linking the two: risk is the situation in the Middle-East drags or for months or escalates, creating another energy catastrophe and drives up gas and oil prices.
Again.
Very difficult for the UK Government. And us.
Other than diplomacy and minor military assets not much we can do.
Start fracking.
Has the Geology of the UK changed overnight?
Fracking simply doesn't make sense in the UK....
The companies that want to spend their own money fracking when they're currently banned from doing so must know less about it than you then I suppose.
Have you ever heard the definition of a gold mine?
It's a hole in the ground with a liar standing next to it.
The management of oil and gas companies, and who have millions of share options, will tell you all kinds of stories. The seismic is always amazing, the core samples are highly promising, and the geology looks *exactly* like AN Other oily/gassy place.
That's because if they strike oil/gas, then the executives get rich. And if they do not, then it is the investors that lose all their money.
I know this, because I was an oil & gas investor for a long time.
While I fully support removing the ban, your willingness to ignore all the evidence is quite remarkable, even for PB.
The companies in question had lost 99% of their market value even before the ban on fracking, because of the two dozen or so hydraulically fractured shale/tight gas wells drilled in the UK, exactly zero found commercially exploitable quantities of oil and natural gas.
LOL. Given the number of data rooms I have had to endure over the last couple of decades when companies are trying to farm out exploration targets I can't help but agree with you on this.
It's true, pre-schools against Hamas should have done a lot more.
It makes no difference. Whether Hamas have popular support or not, they are the de facto government of Gaza, and so Israel is at war against Gaza as a whole, rather than just the terrorist group Hamas in particular. This is a war, rather than a police counter-terrorist operation.
And yet, for all that, Israel is still under an obligation to avoid targeting civilians. Hamas, of course, have no objective except to maximise civilian casualties.
It's true, pre-schools against Hamas should have done a lot more.
It makes no difference. Whether Hamas have popular support or not, they are the de facto government of Gaza, and so Israel is at war against Gaza as a whole, rather than just the terrorist group Hamas in particular. This is a war, rather than a police counter-terrorist operation.
And yet, for all that, Israel is still under an obligation to avoid targeting civilians. Hamas, of course, have no objective except to maximise civilian casualties.
Are they the de facto government of Gaza? Most of the world seems to think Gaza has been and remains under de facto Israeli occupation.
They're pretty ignorant then if so, why would Israel need to be entering Gaza if they were already occupying it?
I guess they think a government usually has control over its own airspace and territorial waters and borders, for example.
It's true, pre-schools against Hamas should have done a lot more.
It makes no difference. Whether Hamas have popular support or not, they are the de facto government of Gaza, and so Israel is at war against Gaza as a whole, rather than just the terrorist group Hamas in particular. This is a war, rather than a police counter-terrorist operation.
And yet, for all that, Israel is still under an obligation to avoid targeting civilians. Hamas, of course, have no objective except to maximise civilian casualties.
It's true, pre-schools against Hamas should have done a lot more.
It makes no difference. Whether Hamas have popular support or not, they are the de facto government of Gaza, and so Israel is at war against Gaza as a whole, rather than just the terrorist group Hamas in particular. This is a war, rather than a police counter-terrorist operation.
And yet, for all that, Israel is still under an obligation to avoid targeting civilians. Hamas, of course, have no objective except to maximise civilian casualties.
Are they the de facto government of Gaza? Most of the world seems to think Gaza has been and remains under de facto Israeli occupation.
They're pretty ignorant then if so, why would Israel need to be entering Gaza if they were already occupying it?
I guess they think a government usually has control over its own airspace and territorial waters and borders, for example.
Ground invasions of urban areas are rarely pretty.
Israel probably wants to go through the whole strip like a knife through butter, but they may take a lot of military casualties doing it.
The order to civilians to evacuate the north of Gaza suggests that they are going to take a pretty indiscriminate approach in an attempt to minimise their own casualties. It would not be surprising to see every building in Northern Gaza levelled, though whether that does the Israelis any good is yet to be seen.
With there still be a Gaza City at the end of next week?
If the buildings are eliminated while civilians are evacuated, then Hamas can't hide there anymore.
Hopefully civilians can find safe haven away from the conflict.
Safe haven for Palestinians should be offered by any of the countries in green on this map, but one suspects their support for Palestine extends as far as trying to piss off or kill Jews, not to actually offering a haven for Palestinians away from a conflict zone.
Without getting back into the earlier arguments I would pick you up on one thing. The Allies in WW2 thought that if they bombed Cassino flat there would be no where for the German paras to shelter. In fact it had exactly the opposite effect and made it easier for them to defend. Given the extent of the tunnel networks under Gaza I would suspect that bombing the city to rubble would improve rather than damage the defensive capabilities.
Maybe, maybe not. Though its worth noting that the Battle of Monte Cassino and World War II in general both ended up being Allied victories.
Which is what is needed here, a clear cut Israeli victory.
Whether it makes Gaza easier or tougher for Hamas to defend if it is levelled or not, is operationally something the IDF and Israel needs to worry about.
If destroying it is proportionate to the military objective, then it is a legitimate target though.
The very actions of Hamas, in both their brutality and their using human shields, means there is little alternative.
For those who say don't do this, what is the realistic alternative that will successfully result in the complete destruction of Hamas and prevent further atrocities?
If you don't have an alternative, then this is a proportionate attack if it occurs, because it is necessary to achieve the military objective at a time of war.
Sorry. I keep forgetting I am arguing with someone who is advocating war crimes and who thinks Palestinians are 'Untermensch'.
I won't bother trying to treat you sensibly any more.
Please don't put in quotes words I've not said, that's utterly disreputable.
I've not advocated any war crime at all, quite the opposite.
Eliminate Hamas while keeping civilian casualties to a minimum is what I've said all along.
I am sure you might convince yourself that that is the case but I am not alone on here in saying that you are doing exactly what I have claimed. I can't even pretend it is through ignorance since it has been made clear to you what the treaties are that Israel themselves have signed up to.
My only hope is that the Israeli leadership is less keen on genocide than you apparently are.
Does anyone remember that take down of Keir Starmer that compared him to a HR manager "chairing a meeting that nobody wants to be at"?
I recall it was bitterly funny. Worth reading again. Can't find
These days he is known as Sir Beer Korma, the man who brings the party to meetings.
What a shift!
That was good PR from his team, to try and get us to forget the previous nickname…
That suit looks really cheap and spivvy- just lucky he didn’t pair it with tan pointy shoes.
Can't argue with the provision of plug sockets in that room though.
Indeed. Nothing like making a period room look utterly shit by running plugs all around the wall - luckily they are British plugs so they are the best plugs.
Ground invasions of urban areas are rarely pretty.
Israel probably wants to go through the whole strip like a knife through butter, but they may take a lot of military casualties doing it.
The order to civilians to evacuate the north of Gaza suggests that they are going to take a pretty indiscriminate approach in an attempt to minimise their own casualties. It would not be surprising to see every building in Northern Gaza levelled, though whether that does the Israelis any good is yet to be seen.
With there still be a Gaza City at the end of next week?
If the buildings are eliminated while civilians are evacuated, then Hamas can't hide there anymore.
Hopefully civilians can find safe haven away from the conflict.
Safe haven for Palestinians should be offered by any of the countries in green on this map, but one suspects their support for Palestine extends as far as trying to piss off or kill Jews, not to actually offering a haven for Palestinians away from a conflict zone.
Without getting back into the earlier arguments I would pick you up on one thing. The Allies in WW2 thought that if they bombed Cassino flat there would be no where for the German paras to shelter. In fact it had exactly the opposite effect and made it easier for them to defend. Given the extent of the tunnel networks under Gaza I would suspect that bombing the city to rubble would improve rather than damage the defensive capabilities.
Maybe, maybe not. Though its worth noting that the Battle of Monte Cassino and World War II in general both ended up being Allied victories.
Which is what is needed here, a clear cut Israeli victory.
Whether it makes Gaza easier or tougher for Hamas to defend if it is levelled or not, is operationally something the IDF and Israel needs to worry about.
If destroying it is proportionate to the military objective, then it is a legitimate target though.
The very actions of Hamas, in both their brutality and their using human shields, means there is little alternative.
For those who say don't do this, what is the realistic alternative that will successfully result in the complete destruction of Hamas and prevent further atrocities?
If you don't have an alternative, then this is a proportionate attack if it occurs, because it is necessary to achieve the military objective at a time of war.
Sorry. I keep forgetting I am arguing with someone who is advocating war crimes and who thinks Palestinians are 'Untermensch'.
I won't bother trying to treat you sensibly any more.
Please don't put in quotes words I've not said, that's utterly disreputable.
I've not advocated any war crime at all, quite the opposite.
Eliminate Hamas while keeping civilian casualties to a minimum is what I've said all along.
I am sure you might convince yourself that that is the case but I am not alone on here in saying that you are doing exactly what I have claimed. I can't even pretend it is through ignorance since it has been made clear to you what the treaties are that Israel themselves have signed up to.
My only hope is that the Israeli leadership is less keen on genocide than you apparently are.
I'm not keen on genocide, I'm keen on innocent people getting a safe haven to avoid the conflict.
There is no treaty preventing going after Hamas in a proportionate manner, which is what I advocate.
Thinking about the water situation in Gaza. Presumably the relevant factor is not the cutting off of the mains supply that was not in any case potable, but the inventory levels of bottled water.
Why is Egypt not receiving the same opprobrium for shutting its border to Gaza for new supplies of food and bottled water? I see it was reported as being closed from Tuesday.
Ground invasions of urban areas are rarely pretty.
Israel probably wants to go through the whole strip like a knife through butter, but they may take a lot of military casualties doing it.
The order to civilians to evacuate the north of Gaza suggests that they are going to take a pretty indiscriminate approach in an attempt to minimise their own casualties. It would not be surprising to see every building in Northern Gaza levelled, though whether that does the Israelis any good is yet to be seen.
With there still be a Gaza City at the end of next week?
If the buildings are eliminated while civilians are evacuated, then Hamas can't hide there anymore.
Hopefully civilians can find safe haven away from the conflict.
Safe haven for Palestinians should be offered by any of the countries in green on this map, but one suspects their support for Palestine extends as far as trying to piss off or kill Jews, not to actually offering a haven for Palestinians away from a conflict zone.
Without getting back into the earlier arguments I would pick you up on one thing. The Allies in WW2 thought that if they bombed Cassino flat there would be no where for the German paras to shelter. In fact it had exactly the opposite effect and made it easier for them to defend. Given the extent of the tunnel networks under Gaza I would suspect that bombing the city to rubble would improve rather than damage the defensive capabilities.
Maybe, maybe not. Though its worth noting that the Battle of Monte Cassino and World War II in general both ended up being Allied victories.
Which is what is needed here, a clear cut Israeli victory.
Whether it makes Gaza easier or tougher for Hamas to defend if it is levelled or not, is operationally something the IDF and Israel needs to worry about.
If destroying it is proportionate to the military objective, then it is a legitimate target though.
The very actions of Hamas, in both their brutality and their using human shields, means there is little alternative.
For those who say don't do this, what is the realistic alternative that will successfully result in the complete destruction of Hamas and prevent further atrocities?
If you don't have an alternative, then this is a proportionate attack if it occurs, because it is necessary to achieve the military objective at a time of war.
Sorry. I keep forgetting I am arguing with someone who is advocating war crimes and who thinks Palestinians are 'Untermensch'.
I won't bother trying to treat you sensibly any more.
Richard you would get more sense out of one of my turnips.
Thinking about the water situation in Gaza. Presumably the relevant factor is not the cutting off of the mains supply that was not in any case potable, but the inventory levels of bottled water.
Why is Egypt not receiving the same opprobrium for shutting its border to Gaza for new supplies of food and bottled water? I see it was reported as being closed from Tuesday.
Egypt isn't Jewish, so why would they get opprobrium?
You have a poster advocating genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza. You have another who keeps describing and posting graphic details of horrific events from Saturday and is posting some unpleasant Islamophobic content, and yet you are attacking my assertion on a betting site that a Conservative majority at 9/1 is outstanding value.
I'm not attacking you! You have repeatedly said that Sunak is heading back into Number 10 at the next GE, and that Hamas is his black swan, and that Net Zero was a game changer and that HS2 was, well, I've forgotten. I'm keen to see your working on why he is going back into Number 10 '92 style, as you have said many times over.
I've come to the belief that Mexicanpete is either trolling or buys a FBPE version of Matthew Goodwin's hypothesis that the electorate are a bunch of unwashed social conservative knuckle draggers who will/would come flooding back to the Conservatives if they get tough on migrants, Brussels, people who accept self id, and CRT. Which makes SKS's defeat inevitable.
Ground invasions of urban areas are rarely pretty.
Israel probably wants to go through the whole strip like a knife through butter, but they may take a lot of military casualties doing it.
The order to civilians to evacuate the north of Gaza suggests that they are going to take a pretty indiscriminate approach in an attempt to minimise their own casualties. It would not be surprising to see every building in Northern Gaza levelled, though whether that does the Israelis any good is yet to be seen.
With there still be a Gaza City at the end of next week?
If the buildings are eliminated while civilians are evacuated, then Hamas can't hide there anymore.
Hopefully civilians can find safe haven away from the conflict.
Safe haven for Palestinians should be offered by any of the countries in green on this map, but one suspects their support for Palestine extends as far as trying to piss off or kill Jews, not to actually offering a haven for Palestinians away from a conflict zone.
Without getting back into the earlier arguments I would pick you up on one thing. The Allies in WW2 thought that if they bombed Cassino flat there would be no where for the German paras to shelter. In fact it had exactly the opposite effect and made it easier for them to defend. Given the extent of the tunnel networks under Gaza I would suspect that bombing the city to rubble would improve rather than damage the defensive capabilities.
Maybe, maybe not. Though its worth noting that the Battle of Monte Cassino and World War II in general both ended up being Allied victories.
Which is what is needed here, a clear cut Israeli victory.
Whether it makes Gaza easier or tougher for Hamas to defend if it is levelled or not, is operationally something the IDF and Israel needs to worry about.
If destroying it is proportionate to the military objective, then it is a legitimate target though.
The very actions of Hamas, in both their brutality and their using human shields, means there is little alternative.
For those who say don't do this, what is the realistic alternative that will successfully result in the complete destruction of Hamas and prevent further atrocities?
If you don't have an alternative, then this is a proportionate attack if it occurs, because it is necessary to achieve the military objective at a time of war.
Sorry. I keep forgetting I am arguing with someone who is advocating war crimes and who thinks Palestinians are 'Untermensch'.
I won't bother trying to treat you sensibly any more.
Please don't put in quotes words I've not said, that's utterly disreputable.
I've not advocated any war crime at all, quite the opposite.
Eliminate Hamas while keeping civilian casualties to a minimum is what I've said all along.
Wind your neck in. You do this sort of thing all the time.
Couple of weeks ago you told me I was a Putinist as I didn’t want British Troops in Ukraine even thought I abhor Russia and Putin.
It's true, pre-schools against Hamas should have done a lot more.
It makes no difference. Whether Hamas have popular support or not, they are the de facto government of Gaza, and so Israel is at war against Gaza as a whole, rather than just the terrorist group Hamas in particular. This is a war, rather than a police counter-terrorist operation.
And yet, for all that, Israel is still under an obligation to avoid targeting civilians. Hamas, of course, have no objective except to maximise civilian casualties.
It's true, pre-schools against Hamas should have done a lot more.
It makes no difference. Whether Hamas have popular support or not, they are the de facto government of Gaza, and so Israel is at war against Gaza as a whole, rather than just the terrorist group Hamas in particular. This is a war, rather than a police counter-terrorist operation.
And yet, for all that, Israel is still under an obligation to avoid targeting civilians. Hamas, of course, have no objective except to maximise civilian casualties.
Are they the de facto government of Gaza? Most of the world seems to think Gaza has been and remains under de facto Israeli occupation.
They're pretty ignorant then if so, why would Israel need to be entering Gaza if they were already occupying it?
I guess they think a government usually has control over its own airspace and territorial waters and borders, for example.
Thinking about the water situation in Gaza. Presumably the relevant factor is not the cutting off of the mains supply that was not in any case potable, but the inventory levels of bottled water.
Why is Egypt not receiving the same opprobrium for shutting its border to Gaza for new supplies of food and bottled water? I see it was reported as being closed from Tuesday.
Criticising Egypt doesn't fit a simple Jew vs Muslim narrative.
Though, in fairness to Egypt, Israel have said they will bomb any attempt to provide supplies to Gaza, and Egypt and Jordan have been discussing trying to send supplies in.
The issue of the border with Egypt will become more relevant after Israeli troops enter Gaza, and civilians become more desperate to escape the fighting. Egypt will have to explain why its border is closed to Gazan civilians looking for a refuge.
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
Though it's all too typical of some men to think so.
I expect this story is being blown up (I wonder why) when what actually happened was company HR comms reminding people there is a paid for BUPA counselling facility for anyone suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues.
Our place has a counselling service like this. It's open to everyone. And from time to time if something upsetting happens that might affect a group of employees the firm sends around a message reminding people counselling is available.
You are half right about this. But the article on Guido quotes the director of HR at Lloyds Bank as saying they are.... "appalled to hear the rhetoric coming from the Conservative Party Conference this week, targeting the trans and non-binary community. Hearing language that fuels hate and division is shocking".
The point cyclefree made about this is correct .... what about people who work in these organisations who perhaps have a different view of this issue? These kind of statements are extremely divisive. It just seems to me like it would be better if banks are impartial and apolitical.
Don't understand your point: the people who have a different view on this topic were not being targeted by the Tory Conference rhetoric.
Sunak is reported as saying that people cannot choose their sex which seems to have kicked off the controversy. But actually this is a view that another group of people legitimately hold as a protected belief. It seems to me to be a stupid idea for the management of any organisation to characterise such a view as being 'hateful'. My point is these organisations should be politically neutral and impartial. You can still support people with mental health services etc without making statements that promote the beliefs of one group over another.
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
Though it's all too typical of some men to think so.
I expect this story is being blown up (I wonder why) when what actually happened was company HR comms reminding people there is a paid for BUPA counselling facility for anyone suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues.
Our place has a counselling service like this. It's open to everyone. And from time to time if something upsetting happens that might affect a group of employees the firm sends around a message reminding people counselling is available.
You are half right about this. But the article on Guido quotes the director of HR at Lloyds Bank as saying they are.... "appalled to hear the rhetoric coming from the Conservative Party Conference this week, targeting the trans and non-binary community. Hearing language that fuels hate and division is shocking".
The point cyclefree made about this is correct .... what about people who work in these organisations who perhaps have a different view of this issue? These kind of statements are extremely divisive. It just seems to me like it would be better if banks are impartial and apolitical.
There’s a big difference between such an email in the aftermath of a terrorist attack or a war starting, and the same sort of language being used to describe the words used at a mainstream political conference, to which their staff might be expected to have a wide range of views on the subject.
I honestly don't think the email was very wisely worded; an email just reminding staff that the counselling service is available would have been fine.
My point was that the email evidences how badly the the Tories come across when they try to through red meat to their hard-line supporters.
It would be the same for Labour if they played to their hard-core but they are wisely focused on convincing the country.
Some of us see it totally the opposite way, that’s an illustration of just how far down the rabbit-hole large corporate HR departments have already gone.
At best, it comes across as a listed company taking sides in an ongoing political social debate that doesn’t affect them directly. Fair enough if they want to take a view on proposed banking legislation, or if they want to send out a generic email about the availability of mental health services.
I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the email has been prompted by a hate attack on a staff member. I know for a fact that a trans member of staff at the FCA suffered such an attack last week following the PM's speech.
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
Though it's all too typical of some men to think so.
I expect this story is being blown up (I wonder why) when what actually happened was company HR comms reminding people there is a paid for BUPA counselling facility for anyone suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues.
Our place has a counselling service like this. It's open to everyone. And from time to time if something upsetting happens that might affect a group of employees the firm sends around a message reminding people counselling is available.
You are half right about this. But the article on Guido quotes the director of HR at Lloyds Bank as saying they are.... "appalled to hear the rhetoric coming from the Conservative Party Conference this week, targeting the trans and non-binary community. Hearing language that fuels hate and division is shocking".
The point cyclefree made about this is correct .... what about people who work in these organisations who perhaps have a different view of this issue? These kind of statements are extremely divisive. It just seems to me like it would be better if banks are impartial and apolitical.
Don't understand your point: the people who have a different view on this topic were not being targeted by the Tory Conference rhetoric.
Sunak is reported as saying that people cannot choose their sex which seems to have kicked off the controversy. But actually this is a view that another group of people legitimately hold as a protected belief. It seems to me to be a stupid idea for the management of any organisation to characterise such a view as being 'hateful'. My point is these organisations should be politically neutral and impartial. You can still support people with mental health services etc without making statements that promote the beliefs of one group over another.
I have said earlier, I think the email was unwisely worded.
See also my response of a couple of minutes ago to Sandpit.
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
Though it's all too typical of some men to think so.
I expect this story is being blown up (I wonder why) when what actually happened was company HR comms reminding people there is a paid for BUPA counselling facility for anyone suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues.
Our place has a counselling service like this. It's open to everyone. And from time to time if something upsetting happens that might affect a group of employees the firm sends around a message reminding people counselling is available.
You are half right about this. But the article on Guido quotes the director of HR at Lloyds Bank as saying they are.... "appalled to hear the rhetoric coming from the Conservative Party Conference this week, targeting the trans and non-binary community. Hearing language that fuels hate and division is shocking".
The point cyclefree made about this is correct .... what about people who work in these organisations who perhaps have a different view of this issue? These kind of statements are extremely divisive. It just seems to me like it would be better if banks are impartial and apolitical.
There’s a big difference between such an email in the aftermath of a terrorist attack or a war starting, and the same sort of language being used to describe the words used at a mainstream political conference, to which their staff might be expected to have a wide range of views on the subject.
I honestly don't think the email was very wisely worded; an email just reminding staff that the counselling service is available would have been fine.
My point was that the email evidences how badly the the Tories come across when they try to through red meat to their hard-line supporters.
It would be the same for Labour if they played to their hard-core but they are wisely focused on convincing the country.
Some of us see it totally the opposite way, that’s an illustration of just how far down the rabbit-hole large corporate HR departments have already gone.
At best, it comes across as a listed company taking sides in an ongoing political social debate that doesn’t affect them directly. Fair enough if they want to take a view on proposed banking legislation, or if they want to send out a generic email about the availability of mental health services.
I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the email has been prompted by a hate attack on a staff member. I know for a fact that a trans member of staff at the FCA suffered such an attack last week following the PM's speech.
‘I wouldn’t be surprised’ = I haven’t got a clue about this.
Helps explain why the FA won’t light up the Wembley arch if this is the mentality within it.
As the most popular comment under that article suggests, presumably he had nothing to say when the World Cup went to Russia and then to Qatar?
They will be covering this story on Football Focus tomorrow explaining the difference inbetween a segment on how Israel’s actions have affected the Palestinian Women’s football team and a segment on the troubling lack of LGBT footballers in the Saudi Football League.
Helps explain why the FA won’t light up the Wembley arch if this is the mentality within it.
As the most popular comment under that article suggests, presumably he had nothing to say when the World Cup went to Russia and then to Qatar?
They will be covering this story on Football Focus tomorrow explaining the difference inbetween a segment on how Israel’s actions have affected the Palestinian Women’s football team and a segment on the troubling lack of LGBT footballers in the Saudi Football League.
But if a few players wear rainbow laces then it’s job done.
You have a poster advocating genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza. You have another who keeps describing and posting graphic details of horrific events from Saturday and is posting some unpleasant Islamophobic content, and yet you are attacking my assertion on a betting site that a Conservative majority at 9/1 is outstanding value.
I'm not attacking you! You have repeatedly said that Sunak is heading back into Number 10 at the next GE, and that Hamas is his black swan, and that Net Zero was a game changer and that HS2 was, well, I've forgotten. I'm keen to see your working on why he is going back into Number 10 '92 style, as you have said many times over.
I've come to the belief that Mexicanpete is either trolling or buys a FBPE version of Matthew Goodwin's hypothesis that the electorate are a bunch of unwashed social conservative knuckle draggers who will/would come flooding back to the Conservatives if they get tough on migrants, Brussels, people who accept self id, and CRT. Which makes SKS's defeat inevitable.
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
Though it's all too typical of some men to think so.
I expect this story is being blown up (I wonder why) when what actually happened was company HR comms reminding people there is a paid for BUPA counselling facility for anyone suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues.
Our place has a counselling service like this. It's open to everyone. And from time to time if something upsetting happens that might affect a group of employees the firm sends around a message reminding people counselling is available.
You are half right about this. But the article on Guido quotes the director of HR at Lloyds Bank as saying they are.... "appalled to hear the rhetoric coming from the Conservative Party Conference this week, targeting the trans and non-binary community. Hearing language that fuels hate and division is shocking".
The point cyclefree made about this is correct .... what about people who work in these organisations who perhaps have a different view of this issue? These kind of statements are extremely divisive. It just seems to me like it would be better if banks are impartial and apolitical.
There’s a big difference between such an email in the aftermath of a terrorist attack or a war starting, and the same sort of language being used to describe the words used at a mainstream political conference, to which their staff might be expected to have a wide range of views on the subject.
I honestly don't think the email was very wisely worded; an email just reminding staff that the counselling service is available would have been fine.
My point was that the email evidences how badly the the Tories come across when they try to through red meat to their hard-line supporters.
It would be the same for Labour if they played to their hard-core but they are wisely focused on convincing the country.
Some of us see it totally the opposite way, that’s an illustration of just how far down the rabbit-hole large corporate HR departments have already gone.
At best, it comes across as a listed company taking sides in an ongoing political social debate that doesn’t affect them directly. Fair enough if they want to take a view on proposed banking legislation, or if they want to send out a generic email about the availability of mental health services.
I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the email has been prompted by a hate attack on a staff member. I know for a fact that a trans member of staff at the FCA suffered such an attack last week following the PM's speech.
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
Though it's all too typical of some men to think so.
I expect this story is being blown up (I wonder why) when what actually happened was company HR comms reminding people there is a paid for BUPA counselling facility for anyone suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues.
Our place has a counselling service like this. It's open to everyone. And from time to time if something upsetting happens that might affect a group of employees the firm sends around a message reminding people counselling is available.
You are half right about this. But the article on Guido quotes the director of HR at Lloyds Bank as saying they are.... "appalled to hear the rhetoric coming from the Conservative Party Conference this week, targeting the trans and non-binary community. Hearing language that fuels hate and division is shocking".
The point cyclefree made about this is correct .... what about people who work in these organisations who perhaps have a different view of this issue? These kind of statements are extremely divisive. It just seems to me like it would be better if banks are impartial and apolitical.
There’s a big difference between such an email in the aftermath of a terrorist attack or a war starting, and the same sort of language being used to describe the words used at a mainstream political conference, to which their staff might be expected to have a wide range of views on the subject.
I honestly don't think the email was very wisely worded; an email just reminding staff that the counselling service is available would have been fine.
My point was that the email evidences how badly the the Tories come across when they try to through red meat to their hard-line supporters.
It would be the same for Labour if they played to their hard-core but they are wisely focused on convincing the country.
Some of us see it totally the opposite way, that’s an illustration of just how far down the rabbit-hole large corporate HR departments have already gone.
At best, it comes across as a listed company taking sides in an ongoing political social debate that doesn’t affect them directly. Fair enough if they want to take a view on proposed banking legislation, or if they want to send out a generic email about the availability of mental health services.
I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the email has been prompted by a hate attack on a staff member. I know for a fact that a trans member of staff at the FCA suffered such an attack last week following the PM's speech.
Helps explain why the FA won’t light up the Wembley arch if this is the mentality within it.
As the most popular comment under that article suggests, presumably he had nothing to say when the World Cup went to Russia and then to Qatar?
Obviously his problem is that Israel is excessively democratic, gay friendly and doesn’t treat minorities with a sufficient level of racism to be a worthy World Cup country.
What becomes more and more clear to me about the 'woke' stuff is that people don't understand it. If you understand what is going on you have an enormous advantage in your working life. That email on the Guido website looks to me like a career ender, as was the case for the people involved in the debanking of Nigel Farage.
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
Though it's all too typical of some men to think so.
I expect this story is being blown up (I wonder why) when what actually happened was company HR comms reminding people there is a paid for BUPA counselling facility for anyone suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues.
Our place has a counselling service like this. It's open to everyone. And from time to time if something upsetting happens that might affect a group of employees the firm sends around a message reminding people counselling is available.
You are half right about this. But the article on Guido quotes the director of HR at Lloyds Bank as saying they are.... "appalled to hear the rhetoric coming from the Conservative Party Conference this week, targeting the trans and non-binary community. Hearing language that fuels hate and division is shocking".
The point cyclefree made about this is correct .... what about people who work in these organisations who perhaps have a different view of this issue? These kind of statements are extremely divisive. It just seems to me like it would be better if banks are impartial and apolitical.
There’s a big difference between such an email in the aftermath of a terrorist attack or a war starting, and the same sort of language being used to describe the words used at a mainstream political conference, to which their staff might be expected to have a wide range of views on the subject.
I honestly don't think the email was very wisely worded; an email just reminding staff that the counselling service is available would have been fine.
My point was that the email evidences how badly the the Tories come across when they try to through red meat to their hard-line supporters.
It would be the same for Labour if they played to their hard-core but they are wisely focused on convincing the country.
Some of us see it totally the opposite way, that’s an illustration of just how far down the rabbit-hole large corporate HR departments have already gone.
At best, it comes across as a listed company taking sides in an ongoing political social debate that doesn’t affect them directly. Fair enough if they want to take a view on proposed banking legislation, or if they want to send out a generic email about the availability of mental health services.
I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the email has been prompted by a hate attack on a staff member. I know for a fact that a trans member of staff at the FCA suffered such an attack last week following the PM's speech.
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
Though it's all too typical of some men to think so.
I expect this story is being blown up (I wonder why) when what actually happened was company HR comms reminding people there is a paid for BUPA counselling facility for anyone suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues.
Our place has a counselling service like this. It's open to everyone. And from time to time if something upsetting happens that might affect a group of employees the firm sends around a message reminding people counselling is available.
You are half right about this. But the article on Guido quotes the director of HR at Lloyds Bank as saying they are.... "appalled to hear the rhetoric coming from the Conservative Party Conference this week, targeting the trans and non-binary community. Hearing language that fuels hate and division is shocking".
The point cyclefree made about this is correct .... what about people who work in these organisations who perhaps have a different view of this issue? These kind of statements are extremely divisive. It just seems to me like it would be better if banks are impartial and apolitical.
There’s a big difference between such an email in the aftermath of a terrorist attack or a war starting, and the same sort of language being used to describe the words used at a mainstream political conference, to which their staff might be expected to have a wide range of views on the subject.
I honestly don't think the email was very wisely worded; an email just reminding staff that the counselling service is available would have been fine.
My point was that the email evidences how badly the the Tories come across when they try to through red meat to their hard-line supporters.
It would be the same for Labour if they played to their hard-core but they are wisely focused on convincing the country.
Some of us see it totally the opposite way, that’s an illustration of just how far down the rabbit-hole large corporate HR departments have already gone.
At best, it comes across as a listed company taking sides in an ongoing political social debate that doesn’t affect them directly. Fair enough if they want to take a view on proposed banking legislation, or if they want to send out a generic email about the availability of mental health services.
I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the email has been prompted by a hate attack on a staff member. I know for a fact that a trans member of staff at the FCA suffered such an attack last week following the PM's speech.
‘I wouldn’t be surprised’ = I haven’t got a clue about this.
In this case, given the relative staff numbers between Lloyds and the FCA I think ‘I wouldn’t be surprised’ = it's very likely.
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
They do indeed get offered counselling, as the reference in the email that Paul Staines has "leaked" simply refers to the general counselling services available to all Lloyds employees experiencing mental health issues via their BUPA medical insurance.
Whilst I broadly agree with you on a lot of these points, Cyclefree, one of the reasons I seek to avoid what has become a pretty toxic debate, is that people are so keen to get furious about perceived injustices that they don't check the facts.
Further, even though I essentially agree with the concerns many women (and indeed many men) have about self-ID, and deplore the violent language (and sometimes worse) directed at those who express those concerns, that doesn't mean that there aren't trans people or that (like the rest of us) they don't experience mental health issues that may benefit from counselling.
Since everyone seems to live their life in a state of perpetual rage and trauma these days, in the interest of balance I would just like to point out that I feel pretty chill about things.
Oops, forgot! Ta muchly. *goes to put some NZ white in the fridge*
I'm clocking off early to go to Wembley.
On the Friday teatime principle, this might offer some pleasant light relief: I think we missed it but then there were good reasons for that, I'm afraid. A friend, who knows about those things, put us onto it.
It will be interesting if they can do the same scanning on the marbles that are still at the Parthenon as a more mischievous person myself might suggest that if they are too weather worn for it to work it would lesson the outrage about the Elgin set being in the BM as we never would have known this detail otherwise.
[edited] AIUI the London marbles were given a good wire-scrubbing in the 1930s to remove all the London grime and grease from )much of?) the surface and mmore, which rather helped stoke the aforesaid outrage when ti was dsicovered recently. I will further outrage PB by declining to give an opinion on the ins and outs of the matter as IANAE, so I will just point to this to give a sense of the issues,
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
They do indeed get offered counselling, as the reference in the email that Paul Staines has "leaked" simply refers to the general counselling services available to all Lloyds employees experiencing mental health issues via their BUPA medical insurance.
Whilst I broadly agree with you on a lot of these points, Cyclefree, one of the reasons I seek to avoid what has become a pretty toxic debate, is that people are so keen to get furious about perceived injustices that they don't check the facts.
Further, even though I essentially agree with the concerns many women (and indeed many men) have about self-ID, and deplore the violent language (and sometimes worse) directed at those who express those concerns, that doesn't mean that there aren't trans people or that (like the rest of us) they don't experience mental health issues that may benefit from counselling.
Since everyone seems to live their life in a state of perpetual rage and trauma these days, in the interest of balance I would just like to point out that I feel pretty chill about things.
Oops, forgot! Ta muchly. *goes to put some NZ white in the fridge*
I'm clocking off early to go to Wembley.
On the Friday teatime principle, this might offer some pleasant light relief: I think we missed it but then there were good reasons for that, I'm afraid. A friend, who knows about those things, put us onto it.
It will be interesting if they can do the same scanning on the marbles that are still at the Parthenon as a more mischievous person myself might suggest that if they are too weather worn for it to work it would lesson the outrage about the Elgin set being in the BM as we never would have known this detail otherwise.
PS Didn't get the replyt right first time - now edited.
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
Though it's all too typical of some men to think so.
I expect this story is being blown up (I wonder why) when what actually happened was company HR comms reminding people there is a paid for BUPA counselling facility for anyone suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues.
Our place has a counselling service like this. It's open to everyone. And from time to time if something upsetting happens that might affect a group of employees the firm sends around a message reminding people counselling is available.
You are half right about this. But the article on Guido quotes the director of HR at Lloyds Bank as saying they are.... "appalled to hear the rhetoric coming from the Conservative Party Conference this week, targeting the trans and non-binary community. Hearing language that fuels hate and division is shocking".
The point cyclefree made about this is correct .... what about people who work in these organisations who perhaps have a different view of this issue? These kind of statements are extremely divisive. It just seems to me like it would be better if banks are impartial and apolitical.
There’s a big difference between such an email in the aftermath of a terrorist attack or a war starting, and the same sort of language being used to describe the words used at a mainstream political conference, to which their staff might be expected to have a wide range of views on the subject.
I honestly don't think the email was very wisely worded; an email just reminding staff that the counselling service is available would have been fine.
My point was that the email evidences how badly the the Tories come across when they try to through red meat to their hard-line supporters.
It would be the same for Labour if they played to their hard-core but they are wisely focused on convincing the country.
Some of us see it totally the opposite way, that’s an illustration of just how far down the rabbit-hole large corporate HR departments have already gone.
At best, it comes across as a listed company taking sides in an ongoing political social debate that doesn’t affect them directly. Fair enough if they want to take a view on proposed banking legislation, or if they want to send out a generic email about the availability of mental health services.
I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the email has been prompted by a hate attack on a staff member. I know for a fact that a trans member of staff at the FCA suffered such an attack last week following the PM's speech.
what was the hate attack , punch in the chops or called him him instead of they or whatever. Problem nowadays is "hate" crime is pathetic as it can range from the totally absurb to something meaningful.
What becomes more and more clear to me about the 'woke' stuff is that people don't understand it. If you understand what is going on you have an enormous advantage in your working life. That email on the Guido website looks to me like a career ender, as was the case for the people involved in the debanking of Nigel Farage.
Why is it so hard for the government to simply respond to the Scottish first minister? A horrible situation that requires support from wider UK capabilities.
I mean - this isn’t a random guy. It’s the first minister of Scotland for gods sake
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
Though it's all too typical of some men to think so.
I expect this story is being blown up (I wonder why) when what actually happened was company HR comms reminding people there is a paid for BUPA counselling facility for anyone suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues.
Our place has a counselling service like this. It's open to everyone. And from time to time if something upsetting happens that might affect a group of employees the firm sends around a message reminding people counselling is available.
You are half right about this. But the article on Guido quotes the director of HR at Lloyds Bank as saying they are.... "appalled to hear the rhetoric coming from the Conservative Party Conference this week, targeting the trans and non-binary community. Hearing language that fuels hate and division is shocking".
The point cyclefree made about this is correct .... what about people who work in these organisations who perhaps have a different view of this issue? These kind of statements are extremely divisive. It just seems to me like it would be better if banks are impartial and apolitical.
There’s a big difference between such an email in the aftermath of a terrorist attack or a war starting, and the same sort of language being used to describe the words used at a mainstream political conference, to which their staff might be expected to have a wide range of views on the subject.
I honestly don't think the email was very wisely worded; an email just reminding staff that the counselling service is available would have been fine.
My point was that the email evidences how badly the the Tories come across when they try to through red meat to their hard-line supporters.
It would be the same for Labour if they played to their hard-core but they are wisely focused on convincing the country.
Some of us see it totally the opposite way, that’s an illustration of just how far down the rabbit-hole large corporate HR departments have already gone.
At best, it comes across as a listed company taking sides in an ongoing political social debate that doesn’t affect them directly. Fair enough if they want to take a view on proposed banking legislation, or if they want to send out a generic email about the availability of mental health services.
I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the email has been prompted by a hate attack on a staff member. I know for a fact that a trans member of staff at the FCA suffered such an attack last week following the PM's speech.
what was the hate attack , punch in the chops or called him him instead of they or whatever. Problem nowadays is "hate" crime is pathetic as it can range from the totally absurb to something meaningful.
I believe it was verbal abuse focused on the being a trans person so it would not meet the Malcolm 'meaningful' threshold. But the law is the law.
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
Though it's all too typical of some men to think so.
I expect this story is being blown up (I wonder why) when what actually happened was company HR comms reminding people there is a paid for BUPA counselling facility for anyone suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues.
Our place has a counselling service like this. It's open to everyone. And from time to time if something upsetting happens that might affect a group of employees the firm sends around a message reminding people counselling is available.
You are half right about this. But the article on Guido quotes the director of HR at Lloyds Bank as saying they are.... "appalled to hear the rhetoric coming from the Conservative Party Conference this week, targeting the trans and non-binary community. Hearing language that fuels hate and division is shocking".
The point cyclefree made about this is correct .... what about people who work in these organisations who perhaps have a different view of this issue? These kind of statements are extremely divisive. It just seems to me like it would be better if banks are impartial and apolitical.
There’s a big difference between such an email in the aftermath of a terrorist attack or a war starting, and the same sort of language being used to describe the words used at a mainstream political conference, to which their staff might be expected to have a wide range of views on the subject.
I honestly don't think the email was very wisely worded; an email just reminding staff that the counselling service is available would have been fine.
My point was that the email evidences how badly the the Tories come across when they try to through red meat to their hard-line supporters.
It would be the same for Labour if they played to their hard-core but they are wisely focused on convincing the country.
Some of us see it totally the opposite way, that’s an illustration of just how far down the rabbit-hole large corporate HR departments have already gone.
At best, it comes across as a listed company taking sides in an ongoing political social debate that doesn’t affect them directly. Fair enough if they want to take a view on proposed banking legislation, or if they want to send out a generic email about the availability of mental health services.
I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the email has been prompted by a hate attack on a staff member. I know for a fact that a trans member of staff at the FCA suffered such an attack last week following the PM's speech.
what was the hate attack , punch in the chops or called him him instead of they or whatever. Problem nowadays is "hate" crime is pathetic as it can range from the totally absurb to something meaningful.
I believe it was verbal abuse focused on the being a trans person so it would not meet the Malcolm 'meaningful' threshold. But the law is the law.
Fair point. But to Malcolm ferocious verbal abuse is just his way of saying "good morning"
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
Though it's all too typical of some men to think so.
I expect this story is being blown up (I wonder why) when what actually happened was company HR comms reminding people there is a paid for BUPA counselling facility for anyone suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues.
Our place has a counselling service like this. It's open to everyone. And from time to time if something upsetting happens that might affect a group of employees the firm sends around a message reminding people counselling is available.
You are half right about this. But the article on Guido quotes the director of HR at Lloyds Bank as saying they are.... "appalled to hear the rhetoric coming from the Conservative Party Conference this week, targeting the trans and non-binary community. Hearing language that fuels hate and division is shocking".
The point cyclefree made about this is correct .... what about people who work in these organisations who perhaps have a different view of this issue? These kind of statements are extremely divisive. It just seems to me like it would be better if banks are impartial and apolitical.
There’s a big difference between such an email in the aftermath of a terrorist attack or a war starting, and the same sort of language being used to describe the words used at a mainstream political conference, to which their staff might be expected to have a wide range of views on the subject.
I honestly don't think the email was very wisely worded; an email just reminding staff that the counselling service is available would have been fine.
My point was that the email evidences how badly the the Tories come across when they try to through red meat to their hard-line supporters.
It would be the same for Labour if they played to their hard-core but they are wisely focused on convincing the country.
Some of us see it totally the opposite way, that’s an illustration of just how far down the rabbit-hole large corporate HR departments have already gone.
At best, it comes across as a listed company taking sides in an ongoing political social debate that doesn’t affect them directly. Fair enough if they want to take a view on proposed banking legislation, or if they want to send out a generic email about the availability of mental health services.
I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the email has been prompted by a hate attack on a staff member. I know for a fact that a trans member of staff at the FCA suffered such an attack last week following the PM's speech.
what was the hate attack , punch in the chops or called him him instead of they or whatever. Problem nowadays is "hate" crime is pathetic as it can range from the totally absurb to something meaningful.
I believe it was verbal abuse focused on the being a trans person so it would not meet the Malcolm 'meaningful' threshold. But the law is the law.
What was the specific abuse a Lloyd employee suffered to merit this ?
Does anyone remember that take down of Keir Starmer that compared him to a HR manager "chairing a meeting that nobody wants to be at"?
I recall it was bitterly funny. Worth reading again. Can't find
These days he is known as Sir Beer Korma, the man who brings the party to meetings.
What a shift!
That was good PR from his team, to try and get us to forget the previous nickname…
That suit looks really cheap and spivvy- just lucky he didn’t pair it with tan pointy shoes.
Can't argue with the provision of plug sockets in that room though.
Jonathan Ross said that when he became rich and built his own house, the best bit was ensuring the sockets were at waist height. I sympathise.
That's building regs now, surely?
Correction: Building regs say sockets must be a minimum of 450mm off the floor, max 1000mm.
Yep basically reachable by someone in a wheelchair.
Which is a bit of a laugh as I can easily reach the floor but yes it's to help people with restricted mobility.
While I'm on the subject >90% of wheelchair accessible toilets have a pedal bin, which I find amusing. Think about it.
Hadn't realised you were in a wheelchair. Not that I should have of course but it was just interesting that after all these years chatting on here I find out something new about someone.
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
Though it's all too typical of some men to think so.
I expect this story is being blown up (I wonder why) when what actually happened was company HR comms reminding people there is a paid for BUPA counselling facility for anyone suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues.
Our place has a counselling service like this. It's open to everyone. And from time to time if something upsetting happens that might affect a group of employees the firm sends around a message reminding people counselling is available.
You are half right about this. But the article on Guido quotes the director of HR at Lloyds Bank as saying they are.... "appalled to hear the rhetoric coming from the Conservative Party Conference this week, targeting the trans and non-binary community. Hearing language that fuels hate and division is shocking".
The point cyclefree made about this is correct .... what about people who work in these organisations who perhaps have a different view of this issue? These kind of statements are extremely divisive. It just seems to me like it would be better if banks are impartial and apolitical.
There’s a big difference between such an email in the aftermath of a terrorist attack or a war starting, and the same sort of language being used to describe the words used at a mainstream political conference, to which their staff might be expected to have a wide range of views on the subject.
I honestly don't think the email was very wisely worded; an email just reminding staff that the counselling service is available would have been fine.
My point was that the email evidences how badly the the Tories come across when they try to through red meat to their hard-line supporters.
It would be the same for Labour if they played to their hard-core but they are wisely focused on convincing the country.
Some of us see it totally the opposite way, that’s an illustration of just how far down the rabbit-hole large corporate HR departments have already gone.
At best, it comes across as a listed company taking sides in an ongoing political social debate that doesn’t affect them directly. Fair enough if they want to take a view on proposed banking legislation, or if they want to send out a generic email about the availability of mental health services.
I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the email has been prompted by a hate attack on a staff member. I know for a fact that a trans member of staff at the FCA suffered such an attack last week following the PM's speech.
what was the hate attack , punch in the chops or called him him instead of they or whatever. Problem nowadays is "hate" crime is pathetic as it can range from the totally absurb to something meaningful.
I believe it was verbal abuse focused on the being a trans person so it would not meet the Malcolm 'meaningful' threshold. But the law is the law.
Fair point. But to Malcolm ferocious verbal abuse is just his way of saying "good morning"
Lol.
I wonder though, would Malcolm think it's ok to shout N****** at a black person or P*** at an Asian person?
Haven’t been following it too closely but looks like Yes is headed for a pretty heavy defeat.
It does look to me like the mistake some in the yes campaign made here was the usual tactic of slating opponents as racists or conspiracists. Any article I find on the topic is dripping in partiality one way or the other - I can imagine it’s not been a very unifying debate (remind anyone of anything?)
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
Though it's all too typical of some men to think so.
I expect this story is being blown up (I wonder why) when what actually happened was company HR comms reminding people there is a paid for BUPA counselling facility for anyone suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues.
Our place has a counselling service like this. It's open to everyone. And from time to time if something upsetting happens that might affect a group of employees the firm sends around a message reminding people counselling is available.
You are half right about this. But the article on Guido quotes the director of HR at Lloyds Bank as saying they are.... "appalled to hear the rhetoric coming from the Conservative Party Conference this week, targeting the trans and non-binary community. Hearing language that fuels hate and division is shocking".
The point cyclefree made about this is correct .... what about people who work in these organisations who perhaps have a different view of this issue? These kind of statements are extremely divisive. It just seems to me like it would be better if banks are impartial and apolitical.
There’s a big difference between such an email in the aftermath of a terrorist attack or a war starting, and the same sort of language being used to describe the words used at a mainstream political conference, to which their staff might be expected to have a wide range of views on the subject.
I honestly don't think the email was very wisely worded; an email just reminding staff that the counselling service is available would have been fine.
My point was that the email evidences how badly the the Tories come across when they try to through red meat to their hard-line supporters.
It would be the same for Labour if they played to their hard-core but they are wisely focused on convincing the country.
Some of us see it totally the opposite way, that’s an illustration of just how far down the rabbit-hole large corporate HR departments have already gone.
At best, it comes across as a listed company taking sides in an ongoing political social debate that doesn’t affect them directly. Fair enough if they want to take a view on proposed banking legislation, or if they want to send out a generic email about the availability of mental health services.
I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the email has been prompted by a hate attack on a staff member. I know for a fact that a trans member of staff at the FCA suffered such an attack last week following the PM's speech.
what was the hate attack , punch in the chops or called him him instead of they or whatever. Problem nowadays is "hate" crime is pathetic as it can range from the totally absurb to something meaningful.
I believe it was verbal abuse focused on the being a trans person so it would not meet the Malcolm 'meaningful' threshold. But the law is the law.
What was the specific abuse a Lloyd employee suffered to merit this ?
Haven’t been following it too closely but looks like Yes is headed for a pretty heavy defeat.
It does look to me like the mistake some in the yes campaign made here was the usual tactic of slating opponents as racists or conspiracists. Any article I find on the topic is dripping in partiality one way or the other - I can imagine it’s not been a very unifying debate (remind anyone of anything?)
I have been trying to follow it but coming late to it I must admit I can't see what the problem is with what seem to be fairly minor concessions to the original inhabitants of the place. I am surprised by the vitreol on both sides.
Haven’t been following it too closely but looks like Yes is headed for a pretty heavy defeat.
It does look to me like the mistake some in the yes campaign made here was the usual tactic of slating opponents as racists or conspiracists. Any article I find on the topic is dripping in partiality one way or the other - I can imagine it’s not been a very unifying debate (remind anyone of anything?)
I saw one of the debates on their version of Question Time and the pro-Yes spokesperson was reduced to arguing that it wasn't about race, but 'indigeneity', and there are white indigenous people in the Arctic circle.
You have a poster advocating genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza. You have another who keeps describing and posting graphic details of horrific events from Saturday and is posting some unpleasant Islamophobic content, and yet you are attacking my assertion on a betting site that a Conservative majority at 9/1 is outstanding value.
I'm not attacking you! You have repeatedly said that Sunak is heading back into Number 10 at the next GE, and that Hamas is his black swan, and that Net Zero was a game changer and that HS2 was, well, I've forgotten. I'm keen to see your working on why he is going back into Number 10 '92 style, as you have said many times over.
I've come to the belief that Mexicanpete is either trolling or buys a FBPE version of Matthew Goodwin's hypothesis that the electorate are a bunch of unwashed social conservative knuckle draggers who will/would come flooding back to the Conservatives if they get tough on migrants, Brussels, people who accept self id, and CRT. Which makes SKS's defeat inevitable.
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
Though it's all too typical of some men to think so.
I expect this story is being blown up (I wonder why) when what actually happened was company HR comms reminding people there is a paid for BUPA counselling facility for anyone suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues.
Our place has a counselling service like this. It's open to everyone. And from time to time if something upsetting happens that might affect a group of employees the firm sends around a message reminding people counselling is available.
You are half right about this. But the article on Guido quotes the director of HR at Lloyds Bank as saying they are.... "appalled to hear the rhetoric coming from the Conservative Party Conference this week, targeting the trans and non-binary community. Hearing language that fuels hate and division is shocking".
The point cyclefree made about this is correct .... what about people who work in these organisations who perhaps have a different view of this issue? These kind of statements are extremely divisive. It just seems to me like it would be better if banks are impartial and apolitical.
There’s a big difference between such an email in the aftermath of a terrorist attack or a war starting, and the same sort of language being used to describe the words used at a mainstream political conference, to which their staff might be expected to have a wide range of views on the subject.
I honestly don't think the email was very wisely worded; an email just reminding staff that the counselling service is available would have been fine.
My point was that the email evidences how badly the the Tories come across when they try to through red meat to their hard-line supporters.
It would be the same for Labour if they played to their hard-core but they are wisely focused on convincing the country.
Some of us see it totally the opposite way, that’s an illustration of just how far down the rabbit-hole large corporate HR departments have already gone.
At best, it comes across as a listed company taking sides in an ongoing political social debate that doesn’t affect them directly. Fair enough if they want to take a view on proposed banking legislation, or if they want to send out a generic email about the availability of mental health services.
I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the email has been prompted by a hate attack on a staff member. I know for a fact that a trans member of staff at the FCA suffered such an attack last week following the PM's speech.
what was the hate attack , punch in the chops or called him him instead of they or whatever. Problem nowadays is "hate" crime is pathetic as it can range from the totally absurb to something meaningful.
I believe it was verbal abuse focused on the being a trans person so it would not meet the Malcolm 'meaningful' threshold. But the law is the law.
Fair point. But to Malcolm ferocious verbal abuse is just his way of saying "good morning"
Lol.
I wonder though, would Malcolm think it's ok to shout N****** at a black person or P*** at an Asian person?
Whilst not Malcolm’s PR manager there is a difference between slinging things at people on here, suggesting people are a bit thin skinned, and doing what you wrote. I can’t imagine Malcolm would do either of those things or approve of them and unless the victim of the alleged trans abuse was called “Trannie” then I don’t see how your question is on a par with what he has written but just a nifty way to have a dig yourself.
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
Though it's all too typical of some men to think so.
I expect this story is being blown up (I wonder why) when what actually happened was company HR comms reminding people there is a paid for BUPA counselling facility for anyone suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues.
Our place has a counselling service like this. It's open to everyone. And from time to time if something upsetting happens that might affect a group of employees the firm sends around a message reminding people counselling is available.
You are half right about this. But the article on Guido quotes the director of HR at Lloyds Bank as saying they are.... "appalled to hear the rhetoric coming from the Conservative Party Conference this week, targeting the trans and non-binary community. Hearing language that fuels hate and division is shocking".
The point cyclefree made about this is correct .... what about people who work in these organisations who perhaps have a different view of this issue? These kind of statements are extremely divisive. It just seems to me like it would be better if banks are impartial and apolitical.
There’s a big difference between such an email in the aftermath of a terrorist attack or a war starting, and the same sort of language being used to describe the words used at a mainstream political conference, to which their staff might be expected to have a wide range of views on the subject.
I honestly don't think the email was very wisely worded; an email just reminding staff that the counselling service is available would have been fine.
My point was that the email evidences how badly the the Tories come across when they try to through red meat to their hard-line supporters.
It would be the same for Labour if they played to their hard-core but they are wisely focused on convincing the country.
Some of us see it totally the opposite way, that’s an illustration of just how far down the rabbit-hole large corporate HR departments have already gone.
At best, it comes across as a listed company taking sides in an ongoing political social debate that doesn’t affect them directly. Fair enough if they want to take a view on proposed banking legislation, or if they want to send out a generic email about the availability of mental health services.
I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the email has been prompted by a hate attack on a staff member. I know for a fact that a trans member of staff at the FCA suffered such an attack last week following the PM's speech.
what was the hate attack , punch in the chops or called him him instead of they or whatever. Problem nowadays is "hate" crime is pathetic as it can range from the totally absurb to something meaningful.
I believe it was verbal abuse focused on the being a trans person so it would not meet the Malcolm 'meaningful' threshold. But the law is the law.
What was the specific abuse a Lloyd employee suffered to merit this ?
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
Though it's all too typical of some men to think so.
I expect this story is being blown up (I wonder why) when what actually happened was company HR comms reminding people there is a paid for BUPA counselling facility for anyone suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues.
Our place has a counselling service like this. It's open to everyone. And from time to time if something upsetting happens that might affect a group of employees the firm sends around a message reminding people counselling is available.
You are half right about this. But the article on Guido quotes the director of HR at Lloyds Bank as saying they are.... "appalled to hear the rhetoric coming from the Conservative Party Conference this week, targeting the trans and non-binary community. Hearing language that fuels hate and division is shocking".
The point cyclefree made about this is correct .... what about people who work in these organisations who perhaps have a different view of this issue? These kind of statements are extremely divisive. It just seems to me like it would be better if banks are impartial and apolitical.
There’s a big difference between such an email in the aftermath of a terrorist attack or a war starting, and the same sort of language being used to describe the words used at a mainstream political conference, to which their staff might be expected to have a wide range of views on the subject.
I honestly don't think the email was very wisely worded; an email just reminding staff that the counselling service is available would have been fine.
My point was that the email evidences how badly the the Tories come across when they try to through red meat to their hard-line supporters.
It would be the same for Labour if they played to their hard-core but they are wisely focused on convincing the country.
Some of us see it totally the opposite way, that’s an illustration of just how far down the rabbit-hole large corporate HR departments have already gone.
At best, it comes across as a listed company taking sides in an ongoing political social debate that doesn’t affect them directly. Fair enough if they want to take a view on proposed banking legislation, or if they want to send out a generic email about the availability of mental health services.
I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the email has been prompted by a hate attack on a staff member. I know for a fact that a trans member of staff at the FCA suffered such an attack last week following the PM's speech.
what was the hate attack , punch in the chops or called him him instead of they or whatever. Problem nowadays is "hate" crime is pathetic as it can range from the totally absurb to something meaningful.
I believe it was verbal abuse focused on the being a trans person so it would not meet the Malcolm 'meaningful' threshold. But the law is the law.
Fair point. But to Malcolm ferocious verbal abuse is just his way of saying "good morning"
Lol.
I wonder though, would Malcolm think it's ok to shout N****** at a black person or P*** at an Asian person?
Malcolm is a Scottish nationalist. I think the above highly unlikely.
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
Though it's all too typical of some men to think so.
I expect this story is being blown up (I wonder why) when what actually happened was company HR comms reminding people there is a paid for BUPA counselling facility for anyone suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues.
Our place has a counselling service like this. It's open to everyone. And from time to time if something upsetting happens that might affect a group of employees the firm sends around a message reminding people counselling is available.
You are half right about this. But the article on Guido quotes the director of HR at Lloyds Bank as saying they are.... "appalled to hear the rhetoric coming from the Conservative Party Conference this week, targeting the trans and non-binary community. Hearing language that fuels hate and division is shocking".
The point cyclefree made about this is correct .... what about people who work in these organisations who perhaps have a different view of this issue? These kind of statements are extremely divisive. It just seems to me like it would be better if banks are impartial and apolitical.
There’s a big difference between such an email in the aftermath of a terrorist attack or a war starting, and the same sort of language being used to describe the words used at a mainstream political conference, to which their staff might be expected to have a wide range of views on the subject.
I honestly don't think the email was very wisely worded; an email just reminding staff that the counselling service is available would have been fine.
My point was that the email evidences how badly the the Tories come across when they try to through red meat to their hard-line supporters.
It would be the same for Labour if they played to their hard-core but they are wisely focused on convincing the country.
Some of us see it totally the opposite way, that’s an illustration of just how far down the rabbit-hole large corporate HR departments have already gone.
At best, it comes across as a listed company taking sides in an ongoing political social debate that doesn’t affect them directly. Fair enough if they want to take a view on proposed banking legislation, or if they want to send out a generic email about the availability of mental health services.
I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the email has been prompted by a hate attack on a staff member. I know for a fact that a trans member of staff at the FCA suffered such an attack last week following the PM's speech.
what was the hate attack , punch in the chops or called him him instead of they or whatever. Problem nowadays is "hate" crime is pathetic as it can range from the totally absurb to something meaningful.
I believe it was verbal abuse focused on the being a trans person so it would not meet the Malcolm 'meaningful' threshold. But the law is the law.
Fair point. But to Malcolm ferocious verbal abuse is just his way of saying "good morning"
Lol.
I wonder though, would Malcolm think it's ok to shout N****** at a black person or P*** at an Asian person?
Whilst not Malcolm’s PR manager there is a difference between slinging things at people on here, suggesting people are a bit thin skinned, and doing what you wrote. I can’t imagine Malcolm would do either of those things or approve of them and unless the victim of the alleged trans abuse was called “Trannie” then I don’t see how your question is on a par with what he has written but just a nifty way to have a dig yourself.
You misunderstand me. I don't for one moment suggest Malcolm himself would use those terms or abuse someone in that way - far from it.
My (genuine) question was whether Malcolm would see all types of verbal abuse as not that meaningful? (As in 'sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt'.)
If so, it's a view he is entitled to but one which the law does not agree with.
Haven’t been following it too closely but looks like Yes is headed for a pretty heavy defeat.
It does look to me like the mistake some in the yes campaign made here was the usual tactic of slating opponents as racists or conspiracists. Any article I find on the topic is dripping in partiality one way or the other - I can imagine it’s not been a very unifying debate (remind anyone of anything?)
I have been trying to follow it but coming late to it I must admit I can't see what the problem is with what seem to be fairly minor concessions to the original inhabitants of the place. I am surprised by the vitreol on both sides.
I can understand an objection on principle grounds - ie why does there need to be an advisory body for one element of society mandated in constitutional law, above others. I don’t really see why you couldn’t just set up an advisory body via legislation (all governments should aspire to take the views of wide sections of society when formulating policy, particularly the impact on groups that struggle with under representation and economic difficulties). Maybe there’s some arcane reason that isn’t possible in Australia, maybe the whole thing is just a bit of overreach. It does seem to have generated a lot of ill will though.
It's true, pre-schools against Hamas should have done a lot more.
It makes no difference. Whether Hamas have popular support or not, they are the de facto government of Gaza, and so Israel is at war against Gaza as a whole, rather than just the terrorist group Hamas in particular. This is a war, rather than a police counter-terrorist operation.
And yet, for all that, Israel is still under an obligation to avoid targeting civilians. Hamas, of course, have no objective except to maximise civilian casualties.
It's true, pre-schools against Hamas should have done a lot more.
It makes no difference. Whether Hamas have popular support or not, they are the de facto government of Gaza, and so Israel is at war against Gaza as a whole, rather than just the terrorist group Hamas in particular. This is a war, rather than a police counter-terrorist operation.
And yet, for all that, Israel is still under an obligation to avoid targeting civilians. Hamas, of course, have no objective except to maximise civilian casualties.
Are they the de facto government of Gaza? Most of the world seems to think Gaza has been and remains under de facto Israeli occupation.
They're pretty ignorant then if so, why would Israel need to be entering Gaza if they were already occupying it?
I guess they think a government usually has control over its own airspace and territorial waters and borders, for example.
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
Though it's all too typical of some men to think so.
I expect this story is being blown up (I wonder why) when what actually happened was company HR comms reminding people there is a paid for BUPA counselling facility for anyone suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues.
Our place has a counselling service like this. It's open to everyone. And from time to time if something upsetting happens that might affect a group of employees the firm sends around a message reminding people counselling is available.
You are half right about this. But the article on Guido quotes the director of HR at Lloyds Bank as saying they are.... "appalled to hear the rhetoric coming from the Conservative Party Conference this week, targeting the trans and non-binary community. Hearing language that fuels hate and division is shocking".
The point cyclefree made about this is correct .... what about people who work in these organisations who perhaps have a different view of this issue? These kind of statements are extremely divisive. It just seems to me like it would be better if banks are impartial and apolitical.
There’s a big difference between such an email in the aftermath of a terrorist attack or a war starting, and the same sort of language being used to describe the words used at a mainstream political conference, to which their staff might be expected to have a wide range of views on the subject.
I honestly don't think the email was very wisely worded; an email just reminding staff that the counselling service is available would have been fine.
My point was that the email evidences how badly the the Tories come across when they try to through red meat to their hard-line supporters.
It would be the same for Labour if they played to their hard-core but they are wisely focused on convincing the country.
Some of us see it totally the opposite way, that’s an illustration of just how far down the rabbit-hole large corporate HR departments have already gone.
At best, it comes across as a listed company taking sides in an ongoing political social debate that doesn’t affect them directly. Fair enough if they want to take a view on proposed banking legislation, or if they want to send out a generic email about the availability of mental health services.
I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the email has been prompted by a hate attack on a staff member. I know for a fact that a trans member of staff at the FCA suffered such an attack last week following the PM's speech.
what was the hate attack , punch in the chops or called him him instead of they or whatever. Problem nowadays is "hate" crime is pathetic as it can range from the totally absurb to something meaningful.
I believe it was verbal abuse focused on the being a trans person so it would not meet the Malcolm 'meaningful' threshold. But the law is the law.
Fair point. But to Malcolm ferocious verbal abuse is just his way of saying "good morning"
Lol.
I wonder though, would Malcolm think it's ok to shout N****** at a black person or P*** at an Asian person?
Malcolm is a Scottish nationalist. I think the above highly unlikely.
Indeed but he seemed to be questioning earlier that verbal abuse of a trans person might not be 'meaningful'.
I don't like conspiracy theories, but this does seem right as that does not look like a social media post Trump would have dictated at all. Even if the sentiment was the same the style would be way different.
It's true, pre-schools against Hamas should have done a lot more.
It makes no difference. Whether Hamas have popular support or not, they are the de facto government of Gaza, and so Israel is at war against Gaza as a whole, rather than just the terrorist group Hamas in particular. This is a war, rather than a police counter-terrorist operation.
And yet, for all that, Israel is still under an obligation to avoid targeting civilians. Hamas, of course, have no objective except to maximise civilian casualties.
It's true, pre-schools against Hamas should have done a lot more.
It makes no difference. Whether Hamas have popular support or not, they are the de facto government of Gaza, and so Israel is at war against Gaza as a whole, rather than just the terrorist group Hamas in particular. This is a war, rather than a police counter-terrorist operation.
And yet, for all that, Israel is still under an obligation to avoid targeting civilians. Hamas, of course, have no objective except to maximise civilian casualties.
Are they the de facto government of Gaza? Most of the world seems to think Gaza has been and remains under de facto Israeli occupation.
They're pretty ignorant then if so, why would Israel need to be entering Gaza if they were already occupying it?
I guess they think a government usually has control over its own airspace and territorial waters and borders, for example.
For the last few years Gaza has been occupied by Hamas - its time to end that. Israel would be a better occupier than Hamas I'm sure we can all agree.
Does anyone know how ‘free and fair’ the last Gazan election was?
No idea how 'free and fair' it was (not very would be my guess) but the last elections were in 2006.
Hamas won, but without the support of 50% of the vote; so there hasn’t been a vote since. Suggests it wasn’t too bad.
The Battle of Gaza, also referred to as Hamas's takeover of Gaza, was a military conflict between Fatah and Hamas that took place in the Gaza Strip between June 10 and 15, 2007. It was a prominent event in the Fatah–Hamas conflict, centered on the struggle for power after Fatah lost the parliamentary elections of 2006. Hamas fighters took control of the Gaza Strip[3] and removed Fatah officials. The battle resulted in the dissolution of the unity government and the de facto division of the Palestinian territories into two entities, the West Bank governed by the Palestinian National Authority, and Gaza governed by Hamas.
Does anyone remember that take down of Keir Starmer that compared him to a HR manager "chairing a meeting that nobody wants to be at"?
I recall it was bitterly funny. Worth reading again. Can't find
These days he is known as Sir Beer Korma, the man who brings the party to meetings.
What a shift!
That was good PR from his team, to try and get us to forget the previous nickname…
That suit looks really cheap and spivvy- just lucky he didn’t pair it with tan pointy shoes.
Can't argue with the provision of plug sockets in that room though.
Jonathan Ross said that when he became rich and built his own house, the best bit was ensuring the sockets were at waist height. I sympathise.
That's building regs now, surely?
Correction: Building regs say sockets must be a minimum of 450mm off the floor, max 1000mm.
Yep basically reachable by someone in a wheelchair.
Which is a bit of a laugh as I can easily reach the floor but yes it's to help people with restricted mobility.
While I'm on the subject >90% of wheelchair accessible toilets have a pedal bin, which I find amusing. Think about it.
In this day and age if you can get toilets that flush with a wave of a hand you’d think they’d get pedal bins like that too.
Increasingly there are some now. But I lose count of the times I've had to lift the lid by hand or, worse, reach down and press the pedal by hand.
While I'm on the subject - the flush lever is often right over in the far corner - almost impossible for me to reach and I am a pretty agile wheelchair user.
Trivial issues though given the state of the world.
What becomes more and more clear to me about the 'woke' stuff is that people don't understand it. If you understand what is going on you have an enormous advantage in your working life. That email on the Guido website looks to me like a career ender, as was the case for the people involved in the debanking of Nigel Farage.
"the debanking of Nigel Farage"
This phrase makes me giggle - as if I'm being tickled.
Haha, that's brilliant! It illustrates just how deeply the Nasty Party's reputation has permeated society.
Brilliant. Really? Some women are pretty pissed off at having men be described as women and insulted if they object. Do they get offered counselling too? Because if they don't that's probably discrimination contrary to the law. And there is nothing brilliant about that. At all.
They do indeed get offered counselling, as the reference in the email that Paul Staines has "leaked" simply refers to the general counselling services available to all Lloyds employees experiencing mental health issues via their BUPA medical insurance.
Whilst I broadly agree with you on a lot of these points, Cyclefree, one of the reasons I seek to avoid what has become a pretty toxic debate, is that people are so keen to get furious about perceived injustices that they don't check the facts.
Further, even though I essentially agree with the concerns many women (and indeed many men) have about self-ID, and deplore the violent language (and sometimes worse) directed at those who express those concerns, that doesn't mean that there aren't trans people or that (like the rest of us) they don't experience mental health issues that may benefit from counselling.
Since everyone seems to live their life in a state of perpetual rage and trauma these days, in the interest of balance I would just like to point out that I feel pretty chill about things.
Starmer has a tough job ahead of him to try and turn this around.
I lost 3 motor scooters in similar circumstances last year. The police were so hopeless with the first one after giving them footage of the whole robbery that I didn't bother reporting the second two.
Does anyone remember that take down of Keir Starmer that compared him to a HR manager "chairing a meeting that nobody wants to be at"?
I recall it was bitterly funny. Worth reading again. Can't find
These days he is known as Sir Beer Korma, the man who brings the party to meetings.
What a shift!
That was good PR from his team, to try and get us to forget the previous nickname…
That suit looks really cheap and spivvy- just lucky he didn’t pair it with tan pointy shoes.
Does it? I find I cannot easily tell an expensive suit from a cheap one by sight. So I hope they are much more comfortable or people are wasting tons of money to brag about £2000 suits or whatever.
Starmer has a tough job ahead of him to try and turn this around.
I lost 3 motor scooters in similar circumstances last year. The police were so hopeless with the first one after giving them footage of the whole robbery that I didn't bother reporting the second two.
I think with theft and burglary they generally show up with an air of resignation and irritation, since it'll just be another unsolved case and crime to add to their numbers. It's not even as though a doubling of police would likely make the cases get solved much more, so we're all just going to get numb.
What becomes more and more clear to me about the 'woke' stuff is that people don't understand it. If you understand what is going on you have an enormous advantage in your working life. That email on the Guido website looks to me like a career ender, as was the case for the people involved in the debanking of Nigel Farage.
"the debanking of Nigel Farage"
This phrase makes me giggle - as if I'm being tickled.
Did anyone lose a job over the debanking of Nigel Farage (you're welcome) - or did everyone just shrug and move on - the sorts of people holding the power to remove people from their jobs not really aeeing why the debanking of Nigel Farage is a problem?
What becomes more and more clear to me about the 'woke' stuff is that people don't understand it. If you understand what is going on you have an enormous advantage in your working life. That email on the Guido website looks to me like a career ender, as was the case for the people involved in the debanking of Nigel Farage.
"the debanking of Nigel Farage"
This phrase makes me giggle - as if I'm being tickled.
Did anyone lose a job over the debanking of Nigel Farage (you're welcome) - or did everyone just shrug and move on - the sorts of people holding the power to remove people from their jobs not really aeeing why the debanking of Nigel Farage is a problem?
What becomes more and more clear to me about the 'woke' stuff is that people don't understand it. If you understand what is going on you have an enormous advantage in your working life. That email on the Guido website looks to me like a career ender, as was the case for the people involved in the debanking of Nigel Farage.
"the debanking of Nigel Farage"
This phrase makes me giggle - as if I'm being tickled.
Did anyone lose a job over the debanking of Nigel Farage (you're welcome) - or did everyone just shrug and move on - the sorts of people holding the power to remove people from their jobs not really aeeing why the debanking of Nigel Farage is a problem?
Starmer has a tough job ahead of him to try and turn this around.
I lost 3 motor scooters in similar circumstances last year. The police were so hopeless with the first one after giving them footage of the whole robbery that I didn't bother reporting the second two.
I think with theft and burglary they generally show up with an air of resignation and irritation, since it'll just be another unsolved case and crime to add to their numbers. It's not even as though a doubling of police would likely make the cases get solved much more, so we're all just going to get numb.
I wonder if RFID might provide the solution to this as it develops?
Does anyone remember that take down of Keir Starmer that compared him to a HR manager "chairing a meeting that nobody wants to be at"?
I recall it was bitterly funny. Worth reading again. Can't find
These days he is known as Sir Beer Korma, the man who brings the party to meetings.
What a shift!
That was good PR from his team, to try and get us to forget the previous nickname…
That suit looks really cheap and spivvy- just lucky he didn’t pair it with tan pointy shoes.
Does it? I find I cannot easily tell an expensive suit from a cheap one by sight. So I hope they are much more comfortable or people are wasting tons of money to brag about £2000 suits or whatever.
It's more accurate to say you can distinguish ill-fitted and shoddy-constructed ones from the better ones by eye. The Bond films provide many examples, both good and bad. There's nothing wrong with a cheap suit if it's well-fitted and well-put-together, and only snobs go "Ew! not expensive enough." The ideal verbal approach is Alan Rickman in Die Hard, and there's a good scene in Casino Royale.
Does anyone remember that take down of Keir Starmer that compared him to a HR manager "chairing a meeting that nobody wants to be at"?
I recall it was bitterly funny. Worth reading again. Can't find
These days he is known as Sir Beer Korma, the man who brings the party to meetings.
What a shift!
That was good PR from his team, to try and get us to forget the previous nickname…
That suit looks really cheap and spivvy- just lucky he didn’t pair it with tan pointy shoes.
Can't argue with the provision of plug sockets in that room though.
Jonathan Ross said that when he became rich and built his own house, the best bit was ensuring the sockets were at waist height. I sympathise.
That's building regs now, surely?
Correction: Building regs say sockets must be a minimum of 450mm off the floor, max 1000mm.
Yep basically reachable by someone in a wheelchair.
Which is a bit of a laugh as I can easily reach the floor but yes it's to help people with restricted mobility.
While I'm on the subject >90% of wheelchair accessible toilets have a pedal bin, which I find amusing. Think about it.
In this day and age if you can get toilets that flush with a wave of a hand you’d think they’d get pedal bins like that too.
They had those "hand wave" sensors in the loos where I used to work. Of course, they were too sensitive, so if you were seated, they would recognise that as a gesture... et voila. Free bidet, every 90 seconds, on the dot.
Though I'm also reminded of the old rhyme: The boss gets a dollar and I get a dime, that's why I shit on the company's time.
Perhaps it was a deliberate choice aimed at improving productivity...
Starmer has a tough job ahead of him to try and turn this around.
I lost 3 motor scooters in similar circumstances last year. The police were so hopeless with the first one after giving them footage of the whole robbery that I didn't bother reporting the second two.
I think with theft and burglary they generally show up with an air of resignation and irritation, since it'll just be another unsolved case and crime to add to their numbers. It's not even as though a doubling of police would likely make the cases get solved much more, so we're all just going to get numb.
I wonder if RFID might provide the solution to this as it develops?
There is already masses of surveillance technology and my understanding is that prolific burglars are often caught, but the problem is that nothing then happens to them in the criminal justice system.
I'm not one to advocate life sentences for theft, but if there is no deterrence, no effective action taken to reform offenders and change their lives, and no follow-on to break up the wider networks that allow people to convert stolen goods into cash, then clearly there's a lot more that needs to change other than introducing even more intrusive surveillance.
What becomes more and more clear to me about the 'woke' stuff is that people don't understand it. If you understand what is going on you have an enormous advantage in your working life. That email on the Guido website looks to me like a career ender, as was the case for the people involved in the debanking of Nigel Farage.
"the debanking of Nigel Farage"
This phrase makes me giggle - as if I'm being tickled.
Did anyone lose a job over the debanking of Nigel Farage (you're welcome) - or did everyone just shrug and move on - the sorts of people holding the power to remove people from their jobs not really aeeing why the debanking of Nigel Farage is a problem?
The Chief Executive had to quit.
How much of that was to do with Farage himself though, and how much of it was to do with her somewhat impertinent lies comments to the BBC journalist at a dinner function?
Haven’t been following it too closely but looks like Yes is headed for a pretty heavy defeat.
It does look to me like the mistake some in the yes campaign made here was the usual tactic of slating opponents as racists or conspiracists. Any article I find on the topic is dripping in partiality one way or the other - I can imagine it’s not been a very unifying debate (remind anyone of anything?)
We should also start getting results for the NZ election tomorrow. NZ Labour have spent the end of the campaign in South Auckland, trying to get turn out up amongst Maori and Pasifika. They have a weird rule in NZ, where the media are not allowed to talk about the election in the day before voting.
What becomes more and more clear to me about the 'woke' stuff is that people don't understand it. If you understand what is going on you have an enormous advantage in your working life. That email on the Guido website looks to me like a career ender, as was the case for the people involved in the debanking of Nigel Farage.
"the debanking of Nigel Farage"
This phrase makes me giggle - as if I'm being tickled.
Did anyone lose a job over the debanking of Nigel Farage (you're welcome) - or did everyone just shrug and move on - the sorts of people holding the power to remove people from their jobs not really aeeing why the debanking of Nigel Farage is a problem?
The Chief Executive had to quit.
How much of that was to do with Farage himself though, and how much of it was to do with her somewhat impertinent lies comments to the BBC journalist at a dinner function?
At least, for once, someone at the top went rather than throwing a junior under the bus.
What becomes more and more clear to me about the 'woke' stuff is that people don't understand it. If you understand what is going on you have an enormous advantage in your working life. That email on the Guido website looks to me like a career ender, as was the case for the people involved in the debanking of Nigel Farage.
"the debanking of Nigel Farage"
This phrase makes me giggle - as if I'm being tickled.
Did anyone lose a job over the debanking of Nigel Farage (you're welcome) - or did everyone just shrug and move on - the sorts of people holding the power to remove people from their jobs not really aeeing why the debanking of Nigel Farage is a problem?
The Chief Executive had to quit.
How much of that was to do with Farage himself though, and how much of it was to do with her somewhat impertinent lies comments to the BBC journalist at a dinner function?
It was all to do with her particularly stupid comments to the journalist.
What becomes more and more clear to me about the 'woke' stuff is that people don't understand it. If you understand what is going on you have an enormous advantage in your working life. That email on the Guido website looks to me like a career ender, as was the case for the people involved in the debanking of Nigel Farage.
"the debanking of Nigel Farage"
This phrase makes me giggle - as if I'm being tickled.
Did anyone lose a job over the debanking of Nigel Farage (you're welcome) - or did everyone just shrug and move on - the sorts of people holding the power to remove people from their jobs not really aeeing why the debanking of Nigel Farage is a problem?
The Chief Executive had to quit.
Yep, and Farage continues to bank but elsewhere. He won, I'd say. Great publicity for him. An important issue too. I recall he pledged to press on and fight for all the unbanked.
To be fair to OGH, worth noting the latest YouGov has only 11% of the 2019 Conservative vote switching to Labour while 24% is in the Don't Know category. That continues to be for me the concern behind the impressive Labour leads. Taking out the DKs, the split becomes 61% Conservative, 16% Labour and 16% Reform.
England splits 48-26-10 which would be a 17.5% swing from Conservative to Labour and a 9.5% swing Conservative to Liberal Democrat.
Not a good evening to be driving in this part of east London with the A13 eastbound closed for hours by a major diesel spill so you can imagine the chaos on all the feeder and surrounding roads.
In truth, and it's early days, there's been no real move in the polls from Conference season The Labour lead seems to be 15-20 points - the We Think poll today is very close to the equivalent from mid September. Next week will seem like back to normal after an extended break. The downbeat economic update suggests those hoping for a giveaway Autumn Statement are going to be disappointed.
In this terrible time I can bring a bit of joy to Pb to announce that someone has paired Haggis with Pineapple joining all sides on this site. Sadly I could only take a screen shot and so we don’t get the backing track of Radiohead to truly make this a PB moment to remember.
In this terrible time I can bring a bit of joy to Pb to announce that someone has paired Haggis with Pineapple joining all sides on this site. Sadly I could only take a screen shot and so we don’t get the backing track of Radiohead to truly make this a PB moment to remember.
Interesting. The textural contrast could work. The moisture would have something of the same effect as neeps. And the acidity would cut the fattiness of the haggis.
Responded to @maxh on previous thread, if he (or anyone else) is interested.
Completely off topic, parts of Glasgow are really very attractive. There is a wonderful Continental feel to much of the architecture. The flat I am staying in reminds me very much of the flat I grew up in in Italy. It is - at such a time - very comforting.
And the weather is lovely. And the conference I'm attending very inspiring.
Until recently, my previous experiences of Glasgow had been conferences in modern halls; changing trains at stations, and the very centre. Then I spent a couple of days walking around it (e.g. along the canal, and down from Milngavie), and found parts of it were surprisingly pleasant. Even as pleasant as Edinburgh in places. And yes, that is high praise from me.
Edit: But Glasgow could make more of its canal, as it does its riverfront.
They could do much much more with the waterfront for certain, though it is very nice and lots of great restaurants and things to do.
Bloody love Glasgow. Easily one of my favourite cities in the UK; cracking people. Similar to Liverpool and Belfast in terms of just great craic on a night out.
Does anyone remember that take down of Keir Starmer that compared him to a HR manager "chairing a meeting that nobody wants to be at"?
I recall it was bitterly funny. Worth reading again. Can't find
These days he is known as Sir Beer Korma, the man who brings the party to meetings.
What a shift!
That was good PR from his team, to try and get us to forget the previous nickname…
That suit looks really cheap and spivvy- just lucky he didn’t pair it with tan pointy shoes.
Can't argue with the provision of plug sockets in that room though.
Jonathan Ross said that when he became rich and built his own house, the best bit was ensuring the sockets were at waist height. I sympathise.
That's building regs now, surely?
Correction: Building regs say sockets must be a minimum of 450mm off the floor, max 1000mm.
Yep basically reachable by someone in a wheelchair.
Which is a bit of a laugh as I can easily reach the floor but yes it's to help people with restricted mobility.
While I'm on the subject >90% of wheelchair accessible toilets have a pedal bin, which I find amusing. Think about it.
In this day and age if you can get toilets that flush with a wave of a hand you’d think they’d get pedal bins like that too.
Increasingly there are some now. But I lose count of the times I've had to lift the lid by hand or, worse, reach down and press the pedal by hand.
While I'm on the subject - the flush lever is often right over in the far corner - almost impossible for me to reach and I am a pretty agile wheelchair user.
Trivial issues though given the state of the world.
Not trivial at all but pretty fundamental, and that pun is not intended humorously! It's abominable.
Does anyone remember that take down of Keir Starmer that compared him to a HR manager "chairing a meeting that nobody wants to be at"?
I recall it was bitterly funny. Worth reading again. Can't find
These days he is known as Sir Beer Korma, the man who brings the party to meetings.
What a shift!
That was good PR from his team, to try and get us to forget the previous nickname…
That suit looks really cheap and spivvy- just lucky he didn’t pair it with tan pointy shoes.
Can't argue with the provision of plug sockets in that room though.
Jonathan Ross said that when he became rich and built his own house, the best bit was ensuring the sockets were at waist height. I sympathise.
That's building regs now, surely?
Correction: Building regs say sockets must be a minimum of 450mm off the floor, max 1000mm.
Yep basically reachable by someone in a wheelchair.
Which is a bit of a laugh as I can easily reach the floor but yes it's to help people with restricted mobility.
While I'm on the subject >90% of wheelchair accessible toilets have a pedal bin, which I find amusing. Think about it.
In this day and age if you can get toilets that flush with a wave of a hand you’d think they’d get pedal bins like that too.
You can - they break a lot, though
I mean, what's wrong with a swing bin?
Cross-contamination risk, unless one is very careful. And if they are overfilled ... but that last also applies to pedal bins, though not with the same malignity.
Comments
There are plenty of more interesting unconventional hydrocarbon opportunities in the UK. I'm personally a fan of in situ gasification of undersea coal reserves for example.
Hence why Israeli troops need to move in.
The FO I don't respect, so not sure what they mean.
/pedant
My only hope is that the Israeli leadership is less keen on genocide than you apparently are.
Not to be confused with other types of sockets.
There is no treaty preventing going after Hamas in a proportionate manner, which is what I advocate.
Why is Egypt not receiving the same opprobrium for shutting its border to Gaza for new supplies of food and bottled water? I see it was reported as being closed from Tuesday.
Couple of weeks ago you told me I was a Putinist as I didn’t want British Troops in Ukraine even thought I abhor Russia and Putin.
GFY
Though, in fairness to Egypt, Israel have said they will bomb any attempt to provide supplies to Gaza, and Egypt and Jordan have been discussing trying to send supplies in.
The issue of the border with Egypt will become more relevant after Israeli troops enter Gaza, and civilians become more desperate to escape the fighting. Egypt will have to explain why its border is closed to Gazan civilians looking for a refuge.
See also my response of a couple of minutes ago to Sandpit.
https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2000/01/01/how-the-british-museums-maintenance-procedures-for-the-parthenon-marbles-have-changed
I mean - this isn’t a random guy. It’s the first minister of Scotland for gods sake
While I'm on the subject >90% of wheelchair accessible toilets have a pedal bin, which I find amusing. Think about it.
LOL. On the pedalbin
I wonder though, would Malcolm think it's ok to shout N****** at a black person or P*** at an Asian person?
Haven’t been following it too closely but looks like Yes is headed for a pretty heavy defeat.
It does look to me like the mistake some in the yes campaign made here was the usual tactic of slating opponents as racists or conspiracists. Any article I find on the topic is dripping in partiality one way or the other - I can imagine it’s not been a very unifying debate (remind anyone of anything?)
My (genuine) question was whether Malcolm would see all types of verbal abuse as not that meaningful? (As in 'sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt'.)
If so, it's a view he is entitled to but one which the law does not agree with.
The ICRC estimated that at least 118 people were killed and more than 550 were wounded during the fighting in the week up to 15 June.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)
While I'm on the subject - the flush lever is often right over in the far corner - almost impossible for me to reach and I am a pretty agile wheelchair user.
Trivial issues though given the state of the world.
This phrase makes me giggle - as if I'm being tickled.
Pause
Rushes out to check
Goddamnit!
Though I'm also reminded of the old rhyme: The boss gets a dollar and I get a dime, that's why I shit on the company's time.
Perhaps it was a deliberate choice aimed at improving productivity...
I'm not one to advocate life sentences for theft, but if there is no deterrence, no effective action taken to reform offenders and change their lives, and no follow-on to break up the wider networks that allow people to convert stolen goods into cash, then clearly there's a lot more that needs to change other than introducing even more intrusive surveillance.
To be fair to OGH, worth noting the latest YouGov has only 11% of the 2019 Conservative vote switching to Labour while 24% is in the Don't Know category. That continues to be for me the concern behind the impressive Labour leads. Taking out the DKs, the split becomes 61% Conservative, 16% Labour and 16% Reform.
England splits 48-26-10 which would be a 17.5% swing from Conservative to Labour and a 9.5% swing Conservative to Liberal Democrat.
Not a good evening to be driving in this part of east London with the A13 eastbound closed for hours by a major diesel spill so you can imagine the chaos on all the feeder and surrounding roads.
In truth, and it's early days, there's been no real move in the polls from Conference season The Labour lead seems to be 15-20 points - the We Think poll today is very close to the equivalent from mid September. Next week will seem like back to normal after an extended break. The downbeat economic update suggests those hoping for a giveaway Autumn Statement are going to be disappointed.