Locally listed pub, bought by developers that had council leader and chief exec as directors. The very same that put Woking Council into £2.6bn debt. Shortly after, pub burns down. "kids" accused, no charges due to insufficient evidence.
There's plenty of evidence switching to a diet containing meat was a big factor in the cerebral development of early humanity. There's also evidence a balanced moderate diet containing red meat, white meat, fish and vegetables isn't a bad idea either.
I've eaten some wonderful vegetarian food and I am less of a carnivore than I was - as far as venison is concerned, my brother-in-law in New Zealand is a decent shot and has served us roast venison in his time - he says it's a very lean meat and he uses bacon just to bring some fat to the table.
No there isn't, what would such evidence even look like? It's a vaguely plausible speculation based on near zero actual data, like everything else about anthropology.
quote
"A study of more than 218,000 adults from over 50 countries around the world suggests that consuming unprocessed meat regularly can reduce the risk of early death and can increase human longevity.73 A recent dietary advice published by Lancet Public Health advocates an increase of dietary meat in order to benefit our heart health and longevity.74 This study also highlights that saturated fat in meat may be cardio protective, as well as, that meat contains many vitamins and the essential amino acids for human health and well-being.73,74"
Yes, I've been vegetarian ever since I was a teenager (I'm in my 50s now) and my father never accepted it. Whenever I dropped round, he'd offer me a bacon sandwich or suchlike and then act all hurt when I turned it down. I never really understood his determination to make me eat meat when I was obviously doing fine without it.
He sounds like my grandmother. I think she felt I was deliberately harming myself.
Meat you can get whole cuts of unprocessed meat. Whereas you largely get processed crap for the alternative, which is nowhere near as healthy and not something we should wish upon our worst enemy.
While that might be true for an Asda own brand vegan burger, an Impossible burger contains 19g of protein, while there are 18g in a Beyond burger.
Also it’s a bean burger, not a pretend-meat burger! And if you think the beefburger *isn't* processed… well, ignorance is bliss I guess.
People get very strange very quickly when the consumption of flesh is questioned.
The idea that vegan food is ‘all processed carbs’ is just daft, unless you have an extraordinarily broad definition of ‘processed’ which extends to such processes as ‘picking fruit off a tree’.
It's entirely natural. The whole planet works on the basis of a living food chain.
What do people think consumes their flesh when our time on earth is up?
Little clue: they aren't vegan.
Natural does not equal necessary. It's natural for me to not be able to see clearly 4ft in front of my face, but I like my glasses. It's also natural to piss and shit straight onto the soil, but I'm sure people would get upset if I did that outside of any private compost heap I might decide to keep.
No one is saying that humans cannot get nutrients from meat, just that we can have a diet that doesn't include it.
If you feel that the consumption of meat is morally abhorrent, or just dislike the mass produced nature of a lot of meat now, then you can live a healthy life without eating meat.
Yes this is my position. I know that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy diet without meat as I haven't eaten meat in 35 years and am in great health. I've never tried to force this view on anyone else and as far as I can see on this forum the greatest proselytisers are from the eating dead animals camp. I do wish they would fuck off as I believe the government likes to put it.
I've never tried to make someone eat meat.
I've definitely had vegans and vegetarians try and make me eat their diet at events, either directly or through moral blackmail, or use their diet to exercise control in social situations. At a macro level there's a strong movement to tax or regulate me out of meat too.
So I wish they would fuck off, actually.
I've seen people - usually old fogies - insist on trying to feed meat to vegetarians or pescetarians even when given ample notice to go for one of their other perfectlyt normal recipes.
Yes, I've been vegetarian ever since I was a teenager (I'm in my 50s now) and my father never accepted it. Whenever I dropped round, he'd offer me a bacon sandwich or suchlike and then act all hurt when I turned it down. I never really understood his determination to make me eat meat when I was obviously doing fine without it.
I cook a lot and have people around if someone is a vegetarian/vegan I have always made a main dish for them that is vegatarian/vegan....what I won't do is make the whole main dish vegetarian/vegan. The rest of us will be eating meat
I'm the opposite. Rabid meat eater. But if I'm giving a dinner party and there is a veggie there I will give everyone veggie food. Gives me a chance to show off my creativity although warning: putting (delicious) open cap mushrooms in things turns everything grey. I think it's rude to give people different things effectively singling them out for their dietary choices. I invited them, after all.
If someone wants to make a dietary choice, then that's their choice, but everyone else doesn't have to suffer for it.
My choice is to eat meat, and if I was eating at a vegan household I'd be seriously impressed and pleased if they put the effort in to make a meal suitable to my choices, not feel singled out.
For some reason though most vegans think they should be catered for, but there's no onus on them to return the favour.
As I said I believe it is rude. I have invited the person for dinner and the essence of good manners is not to make someone feel awkward or out of place. Hence everyone gets veggie food. Rolling out a separate dish for them, although I'm sure would be appreciated, is imo bad manners. But then I'm an old fashioned kind of guy.
Not a dinner party scenario - but at family get together / big work dos I get quite annoyed at the lack of veggie offering; not because there is nothing but because meat eaters will eat both their meat option and my veggie option, meaning the veggie option depletes quite quickly despite not many veggies being at a thing. At work we’ve started ordering veggie only buffets - half the team is veggie or vegan and when we ordered meat options alongside they were always left over but the veggie stuff would go quickly.
Because there's virtually no nutrition in your veggie stuff and you are over indulging in what's essentially a side dish?
Reconsider your life.
Funny how we live an average of 9 years longer than you flesheaters if we hardly get any nutrition.
Yes, I've been vegetarian ever since I was a teenager (I'm in my 50s now) and my father never accepted it. Whenever I dropped round, he'd offer me a bacon sandwich or suchlike and then act all hurt when I turned it down. I never really understood his determination to make me eat meat when I was obviously doing fine without it.
He sounds like my grandmother. I think she felt I was deliberately harming myself.
Meat you can get whole cuts of unprocessed meat. Whereas you largely get processed crap for the alternative, which is nowhere near as healthy and not something we should wish upon our worst enemy.
While that might be true for an Asda own brand vegan burger, an Impossible burger contains 19g of protein, while there are 18g in a Beyond burger.
Also it’s a bean burger, not a pretend-meat burger! And if you think the beefburger *isn't* processed… well, ignorance is bliss I guess.
People get very strange very quickly when the consumption of flesh is questioned.
The idea that vegan food is ‘all processed carbs’ is just daft, unless you have an extraordinarily broad definition of ‘processed’ which extends to such processes as ‘picking fruit off a tree’.
It's entirely natural. The whole planet works on the basis of a living food chain.
What do people think consumes their flesh when our time on earth is up?
Little clue: they aren't vegan.
Natural does not equal necessary. It's natural for me to not be able to see clearly 4ft in front of my face, but I like my glasses. It's also natural to piss and shit straight onto the soil, but I'm sure people would get upset if I did that outside of any private compost heap I might decide to keep.
No one is saying that humans cannot get nutrients from meat, just that we can have a diet that doesn't include it.
If you feel that the consumption of meat is morally abhorrent, or just dislike the mass produced nature of a lot of meat now, then you can live a healthy life without eating meat.
Yes this is my position. I know that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy diet without meat as I haven't eaten meat in 35 years and am in great health. I've never tried to force this view on anyone else and as far as I can see on this forum the greatest proselytisers are from the eating dead animals camp. I do wish they would fuck off as I believe the government likes to put it.
I've never tried to make someone eat meat.
I've definitely had vegans and vegetarians try and make me eat their diet at events, either directly or through moral blackmail, or use their diet to exercise control in social situations. At a macro level there's a strong movement to tax or regulate me out of meat too.
So I wish they would fuck off, actually.
I've seen people - usually old fogies - insist on trying to feed meat to vegetarians or pescetarians even when given ample notice to go for one of their other perfectlyt normal recipes.
Yes, I've been vegetarian ever since I was a teenager (I'm in my 50s now) and my father never accepted it. Whenever I dropped round, he'd offer me a bacon sandwich or suchlike and then act all hurt when I turned it down. I never really understood his determination to make me eat meat when I was obviously doing fine without it.
I cook a lot and have people around if someone is a vegetarian/vegan I have always made a main dish for them that is vegatarian/vegan....what I won't do is make the whole main dish vegetarian/vegan. The rest of us will be eating meat
I'm the opposite. Rabid meat eater. But if I'm giving a dinner party and there is a veggie there I will give everyone veggie food. Gives me a chance to show off my creativity although warning: putting (delicious) open cap mushrooms in things turns everything grey. I think it's rude to give people different things effectively singling them out for their dietary choices. I invited them, after all.
If someone wants to make a dietary choice, then that's their choice, but everyone else doesn't have to suffer for it.
My choice is to eat meat, and if I was eating at a vegan household I'd be seriously impressed and pleased if they put the effort in to make a meal suitable to my choices, not feel singled out.
For some reason though most vegans think they should be catered for, but there's no onus on them to return the favour.
As I said I believe it is rude. I have invited the person for dinner and the essence of good manners is not to make someone feel awkward or out of place. Hence everyone gets veggie food. Rolling out a separate dish for them, although I'm sure would be appreciated, is imo bad manners. But then I'm an old fashioned kind of guy.
Not a dinner party scenario - but at family get together / big work dos I get quite annoyed at the lack of veggie offering; not because there is nothing but because meat eaters will eat both their meat option and my veggie option, meaning the veggie option depletes quite quickly despite not many veggies being at a thing. At work we’ve started ordering veggie only buffets - half the team is veggie or vegan and when we ordered meat options alongside they were always left over but the veggie stuff would go quickly.
Because there's virtually no nutrition in your veggie stuff and you are over indulging in what's essentially a side dish?
Reconsider your life.
Funny how we live an average of 9 years longer than you flesheaters if we hardly get any nutrition.
Source the link I gave implies no real difference. You keep asserting this without link to a source to show your figures. Put up or shut up
There's plenty of evidence switching to a diet containing meat was a big factor in the cerebral development of early humanity. There's also evidence a balanced moderate diet containing red meat, white meat, fish and vegetables isn't a bad idea either.
I've eaten some wonderful vegetarian food and I am less of a carnivore than I was - as far as venison is concerned, my brother-in-law in New Zealand is a decent shot and has served us roast venison in his time - he says it's a very lean meat and he uses bacon just to bring some fat to the table.
No there isn't, what would such evidence even look like? It's a vaguely plausible speculation based on near zero actual data, like everything else about anthropology.
quote
"A study of more than 218,000 adults from over 50 countries around the world suggests that consuming unprocessed meat regularly can reduce the risk of early death and can increase human longevity.73 A recent dietary advice published by Lancet Public Health advocates an increase of dietary meat in order to benefit our heart health and longevity.74 This study also highlights that saturated fat in meat may be cardio protective, as well as, that meat contains many vitamins and the essential amino acids for human health and well-being.73,74"
There's plenty of evidence switching to a diet containing meat was a big factor in the cerebral development of early humanity. There's also evidence a balanced moderate diet containing red meat, white meat, fish and vegetables isn't a bad idea either.
I've eaten some wonderful vegetarian food and I am less of a carnivore than I was - as far as venison is concerned, my brother-in-law in New Zealand is a decent shot and has served us roast venison in his time - he says it's a very lean meat and he uses bacon just to bring some fat to the table.
No there isn't, what would such evidence even look like? It's a vaguely plausible speculation based on near zero actual data, like everything else about anthropology.
quote
"A study of more than 218,000 adults from over 50 countries around the world suggests that consuming unprocessed meat regularly can reduce the risk of early death and can increase human longevity.73 A recent dietary advice published by Lancet Public Health advocates an increase of dietary meat in order to benefit our heart health and longevity.74 This study also highlights that saturated fat in meat may be cardio protective, as well as, that meat contains many vitamins and the essential amino acids for human health and well-being.73,74"
Yes, I've been vegetarian ever since I was a teenager (I'm in my 50s now) and my father never accepted it. Whenever I dropped round, he'd offer me a bacon sandwich or suchlike and then act all hurt when I turned it down. I never really understood his determination to make me eat meat when I was obviously doing fine without it.
He sounds like my grandmother. I think she felt I was deliberately harming myself.
Meat you can get whole cuts of unprocessed meat. Whereas you largely get processed crap for the alternative, which is nowhere near as healthy and not something we should wish upon our worst enemy.
While that might be true for an Asda own brand vegan burger, an Impossible burger contains 19g of protein, while there are 18g in a Beyond burger.
Also it’s a bean burger, not a pretend-meat burger! And if you think the beefburger *isn't* processed… well, ignorance is bliss I guess.
People get very strange very quickly when the consumption of flesh is questioned.
The idea that vegan food is ‘all processed carbs’ is just daft, unless you have an extraordinarily broad definition of ‘processed’ which extends to such processes as ‘picking fruit off a tree’.
It's entirely natural. The whole planet works on the basis of a living food chain.
What do people think consumes their flesh when our time on earth is up?
Little clue: they aren't vegan.
Natural does not equal necessary. It's natural for me to not be able to see clearly 4ft in front of my face, but I like my glasses. It's also natural to piss and shit straight onto the soil, but I'm sure people would get upset if I did that outside of any private compost heap I might decide to keep.
No one is saying that humans cannot get nutrients from meat, just that we can have a diet that doesn't include it.
If you feel that the consumption of meat is morally abhorrent, or just dislike the mass produced nature of a lot of meat now, then you can live a healthy life without eating meat.
Yes this is my position. I know that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy diet without meat as I haven't eaten meat in 35 years and am in great health. I've never tried to force this view on anyone else and as far as I can see on this forum the greatest proselytisers are from the eating dead animals camp. I do wish they would fuck off as I believe the government likes to put it.
I've never tried to make someone eat meat.
I've definitely had vegans and vegetarians try and make me eat their diet at events, either directly or through moral blackmail, or use their diet to exercise control in social situations. At a macro level there's a strong movement to tax or regulate me out of meat too.
So I wish they would fuck off, actually.
I've seen people - usually old fogies - insist on trying to feed meat to vegetarians or pescetarians even when given ample notice to go for one of their other perfectlyt normal recipes.
Yes, I've been vegetarian ever since I was a teenager (I'm in my 50s now) and my father never accepted it. Whenever I dropped round, he'd offer me a bacon sandwich or suchlike and then act all hurt when I turned it down. I never really understood his determination to make me eat meat when I was obviously doing fine without it.
I cook a lot and have people around if someone is a vegetarian/vegan I have always made a main dish for them that is vegatarian/vegan....what I won't do is make the whole main dish vegetarian/vegan. The rest of us will be eating meat
I'm the opposite. Rabid meat eater. But if I'm giving a dinner party and there is a veggie there I will give everyone veggie food. Gives me a chance to show off my creativity although warning: putting (delicious) open cap mushrooms in things turns everything grey. I think it's rude to give people different things effectively singling them out for their dietary choices. I invited them, after all.
If someone wants to make a dietary choice, then that's their choice, but everyone else doesn't have to suffer for it.
My choice is to eat meat, and if I was eating at a vegan household I'd be seriously impressed and pleased if they put the effort in to make a meal suitable to my choices, not feel singled out.
For some reason though most vegans think they should be catered for, but there's no onus on them to return the favour.
As I said I believe it is rude. I have invited the person for dinner and the essence of good manners is not to make someone feel awkward or out of place. Hence everyone gets veggie food. Rolling out a separate dish for them, although I'm sure would be appreciated, is imo bad manners. But then I'm an old fashioned kind of guy.
Not a dinner party scenario - but at family get together / big work dos I get quite annoyed at the lack of veggie offering; not because there is nothing but because meat eaters will eat both their meat option and my veggie option, meaning the veggie option depletes quite quickly despite not many veggies being at a thing. At work we’ve started ordering veggie only buffets - half the team is veggie or vegan and when we ordered meat options alongside they were always left over but the veggie stuff would go quickly.
Because there's virtually no nutrition in your veggie stuff and you are over indulging in what's essentially a side dish?
Reconsider your life.
Funny how we live an average of 9 years longer than you flesheaters if we hardly get any nutrition.
You've been asked twice to provide your source for this stat, and failed to produce it.
Yes, I've been vegetarian ever since I was a teenager (I'm in my 50s now) and my father never accepted it. Whenever I dropped round, he'd offer me a bacon sandwich or suchlike and then act all hurt when I turned it down. I never really understood his determination to make me eat meat when I was obviously doing fine without it.
He sounds like my grandmother. I think she felt I was deliberately harming myself.
Meat you can get whole cuts of unprocessed meat. Whereas you largely get processed crap for the alternative, which is nowhere near as healthy and not something we should wish upon our worst enemy.
While that might be true for an Asda own brand vegan burger, an Impossible burger contains 19g of protein, while there are 18g in a Beyond burger.
Also it’s a bean burger, not a pretend-meat burger! And if you think the beefburger *isn't* processed… well, ignorance is bliss I guess.
People get very strange very quickly when the consumption of flesh is questioned.
The idea that vegan food is ‘all processed carbs’ is just daft, unless you have an extraordinarily broad definition of ‘processed’ which extends to such processes as ‘picking fruit off a tree’.
It's entirely natural. The whole planet works on the basis of a living food chain.
What do people think consumes their flesh when our time on earth is up?
Little clue: they aren't vegan.
Natural does not equal necessary. It's natural for me to not be able to see clearly 4ft in front of my face, but I like my glasses. It's also natural to piss and shit straight onto the soil, but I'm sure people would get upset if I did that outside of any private compost heap I might decide to keep.
No one is saying that humans cannot get nutrients from meat, just that we can have a diet that doesn't include it.
If you feel that the consumption of meat is morally abhorrent, or just dislike the mass produced nature of a lot of meat now, then you can live a healthy life without eating meat.
Yes this is my position. I know that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy diet without meat as I haven't eaten meat in 35 years and am in great health. I've never tried to force this view on anyone else and as far as I can see on this forum the greatest proselytisers are from the eating dead animals camp. I do wish they would fuck off as I believe the government likes to put it.
I've never tried to make someone eat meat.
I've definitely had vegans and vegetarians try and make me eat their diet at events, either directly or through moral blackmail, or use their diet to exercise control in social situations. At a macro level there's a strong movement to tax or regulate me out of meat too.
So I wish they would fuck off, actually.
I've seen people - usually old fogies - insist on trying to feed meat to vegetarians or pescetarians even when given ample notice to go for one of their other perfectlyt normal recipes.
Yes, I've been vegetarian ever since I was a teenager (I'm in my 50s now) and my father never accepted it. Whenever I dropped round, he'd offer me a bacon sandwich or suchlike and then act all hurt when I turned it down. I never really understood his determination to make me eat meat when I was obviously doing fine without it.
I cook a lot and have people around if someone is a vegetarian/vegan I have always made a main dish for them that is vegatarian/vegan....what I won't do is make the whole main dish vegetarian/vegan. The rest of us will be eating meat
I'm the opposite. Rabid meat eater. But if I'm giving a dinner party and there is a veggie there I will give everyone veggie food. Gives me a chance to show off my creativity although warning: putting (delicious) open cap mushrooms in things turns everything grey. I think it's rude to give people different things effectively singling them out for their dietary choices. I invited them, after all.
If someone wants to make a dietary choice, then that's their choice, but everyone else doesn't have to suffer for it.
My choice is to eat meat, and if I was eating at a vegan household I'd be seriously impressed and pleased if they put the effort in to make a meal suitable to my choices, not feel singled out.
For some reason though most vegans think they should be catered for, but there's no onus on them to return the favour.
As I said I believe it is rude. I have invited the person for dinner and the essence of good manners is not to make someone feel awkward or out of place. Hence everyone gets veggie food. Rolling out a separate dish for them, although I'm sure would be appreciated, is imo bad manners. But then I'm an old fashioned kind of guy.
Not a dinner party scenario - but at family get together / big work dos I get quite annoyed at the lack of veggie offering; not because there is nothing but because meat eaters will eat both their meat option and my veggie option, meaning the veggie option depletes quite quickly despite not many veggies being at a thing. At work we’ve started ordering veggie only buffets - half the team is veggie or vegan and when we ordered meat options alongside they were always left over but the veggie stuff would go quickly.
Because there's virtually no nutrition in your veggie stuff and you are over indulging in what's essentially a side dish?
Reconsider your life.
Funny how we live an average of 9 years longer than you flesheaters if we hardly get any nutrition.
You've been asked twice to provide your source for this stat, and failed to produce it.
There's plenty of evidence switching to a diet containing meat was a big factor in the cerebral development of early humanity. There's also evidence a balanced moderate diet containing red meat, white meat, fish and vegetables isn't a bad idea either.
I've eaten some wonderful vegetarian food and I am less of a carnivore than I was - as far as venison is concerned, my brother-in-law in New Zealand is a decent shot and has served us roast venison in his time - he says it's a very lean meat and he uses bacon just to bring some fat to the table.
No there isn't, what would such evidence even look like? It's a vaguely plausible speculation based on near zero actual data, like everything else about anthropology.
quote
"A study of more than 218,000 adults from over 50 countries around the world suggests that consuming unprocessed meat regularly can reduce the risk of early death and can increase human longevity.73 A recent dietary advice published by Lancet Public Health advocates an increase of dietary meat in order to benefit our heart health and longevity.74 This study also highlights that saturated fat in meat may be cardio protective, as well as, that meat contains many vitamins and the essential amino acids for human health and well-being.73,74"
There's plenty of evidence switching to a diet containing meat was a big factor in the cerebral development of early humanity. There's also evidence a balanced moderate diet containing red meat, white meat, fish and vegetables isn't a bad idea either.
I've eaten some wonderful vegetarian food and I am less of a carnivore than I was - as far as venison is concerned, my brother-in-law in New Zealand is a decent shot and has served us roast venison in his time - he says it's a very lean meat and he uses bacon just to bring some fat to the table.
No there isn't, what would such evidence even look like? It's a vaguely plausible speculation based on near zero actual data, like everything else about anthropology.
quote
"A study of more than 218,000 adults from over 50 countries around the world suggests that consuming unprocessed meat regularly can reduce the risk of early death and can increase human longevity.73 A recent dietary advice published by Lancet Public Health advocates an increase of dietary meat in order to benefit our heart health and longevity.74 This study also highlights that saturated fat in meat may be cardio protective, as well as, that meat contains many vitamins and the essential amino acids for human health and well-being.73,74"
Meat you can get whole cuts of unprocessed meat. Whereas you largely get processed crap for the alternative, which is nowhere near as healthy and not something we should wish upon our worst enemy.
While that might be true for an Asda own brand vegan burger, an Impossible burger contains 19g of protein, while there are 18g in a Beyond burger.
Also it’s a bean burger, not a pretend-meat burger! And if you think the beefburger *isn't* processed… well, ignorance is bliss I guess.
People get very strange very quickly when the consumption of flesh is questioned.
The idea that vegan food is ‘all processed carbs’ is just daft, unless you have an extraordinarily broad definition of ‘processed’ which extends to such processes as ‘picking fruit off a tree’.
It's entirely natural. The whole planet works on the basis of a living food chain.
What do people think consumes their flesh when our time on earth is up?
Little clue: they aren't vegan.
Natural does not equal necessary. It's natural for me to not be able to see clearly 4ft in front of my face, but I like my glasses. It's also natural to piss and shit straight onto the soil, but I'm sure people would get upset if I did that outside of any private compost heap I might decide to keep.
No one is saying that humans cannot get nutrients from meat, just that we can have a diet that doesn't include it.
If you feel that the consumption of meat is morally abhorrent, or just dislike the mass produced nature of a lot of meat now, then you can live a healthy life without eating meat.
Yes this is my position. I know that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy diet without meat as I haven't eaten meat in 35 years and am in great health. I've never tried to force this view on anyone else and as far as I can see on this forum the greatest proselytisers are from the eating dead animals camp. I do wish they would fuck off as I believe the government likes to put it.
I've never tried to make someone eat meat.
I've definitely had vegans and vegetarians try and make me eat their diet at events, either directly or through moral blackmail, or use their diet to exercise control in social situations. At a macro level there's a strong movement to tax or regulate me out of meat too.
So I wish they would fuck off, actually.
I've seen people - usually old fogies - insist on trying to feed meat to vegetarians or pescetarians even when given ample notice to go for one of their other perfectlyt normal recipes.
Yes, I've been vegetarian ever since I was a teenager (I'm in my 50s now) and my father never accepted it. Whenever I dropped round, he'd offer me a bacon sandwich or suchlike and then act all hurt when I turned it down. I never really understood his determination to make me eat meat when I was obviously doing fine without it.
I cook a lot and have people around if someone is a vegetarian/vegan I have always made a main dish for them that is vegatarian/vegan....what I won't do is make the whole main dish vegetarian/vegan. The rest of us will be eating meat
I'm the opposite. Rabid meat eater. But if I'm giving a dinner party and there is a veggie there I will give everyone veggie food. Gives me a chance to show off my creativity although warning: putting (delicious) open cap mushrooms in things turns everything grey. I think it's rude to give people different things effectively singling them out for their dietary choices. I invited them, after all.
If someone wants to make a dietary choice, then that's their choice, but everyone else doesn't have to suffer for it.
My choice is to eat meat, and if I was eating at a vegan household I'd be seriously impressed and pleased if they put the effort in to make a meal suitable to my choices, not feel singled out.
For some reason though most vegans think they should be catered for, but there's no onus on them to return the favour.
As I said I believe it is rude. I have invited the person for dinner and the essence of good manners is not to make someone feel awkward or out of place. Hence everyone gets veggie food. Rolling out a separate dish for them, although I'm sure would be appreciated, is imo bad manners. But then I'm an old fashioned kind of guy.
Not a dinner party scenario - but at family get together / big work dos I get quite annoyed at the lack of veggie offering; not because there is nothing but because meat eaters will eat both their meat option and my veggie option, meaning the veggie option depletes quite quickly despite not many veggies being at a thing. At work we’ve started ordering veggie only buffets - half the team is veggie or vegan and when we ordered meat options alongside they were always left over but the veggie stuff would go quickly.
Because there's virtually no nutrition in your veggie stuff and you are over indulging in what's essentially a side dish?
Reconsider your life.
What a pompous, crass and ill-informed comment.
‘Virtually no nutrition’ - you’re just trolling, aren’t you.
If you eat just rabbit food don't be surprised if you're still hungry after.
I don't know any vegetarians who eat only grass.
Don't be silly rabbits eat carrots I know this by the wild life show bugs bunny
Meat you can get whole cuts of unprocessed meat. Whereas you largely get processed crap for the alternative, which is nowhere near as healthy and not something we should wish upon our worst enemy.
While that might be true for an Asda own brand vegan burger, an Impossible burger contains 19g of protein, while there are 18g in a Beyond burger.
Also it’s a bean burger, not a pretend-meat burger! And if you think the beefburger *isn't* processed… well, ignorance is bliss I guess.
People get very strange very quickly when the consumption of flesh is questioned.
The idea that vegan food is ‘all processed carbs’ is just daft, unless you have an extraordinarily broad definition of ‘processed’ which extends to such processes as ‘picking fruit off a tree’.
It's entirely natural. The whole planet works on the basis of a living food chain.
What do people think consumes their flesh when our time on earth is up?
Little clue: they aren't vegan.
Natural does not equal necessary. It's natural for me to not be able to see clearly 4ft in front of my face, but I like my glasses. It's also natural to piss and shit straight onto the soil, but I'm sure people would get upset if I did that outside of any private compost heap I might decide to keep.
No one is saying that humans cannot get nutrients from meat, just that we can have a diet that doesn't include it.
If you feel that the consumption of meat is morally abhorrent, or just dislike the mass produced nature of a lot of meat now, then you can live a healthy life without eating meat.
Yes this is my position. I know that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy diet without meat as I haven't eaten meat in 35 years and am in great health. I've never tried to force this view on anyone else and as far as I can see on this forum the greatest proselytisers are from the eating dead animals camp. I do wish they would fuck off as I believe the government likes to put it.
I've never tried to make someone eat meat.
I've definitely had vegans and vegetarians try and make me eat their diet at events, either directly or through moral blackmail, or use their diet to exercise control in social situations. At a macro level there's a strong movement to tax or regulate me out of meat too.
So I wish they would fuck off, actually.
I've seen people - usually old fogies - insist on trying to feed meat to vegetarians or pescetarians even when given ample notice to go for one of their other perfectlyt normal recipes.
Yes, I've been vegetarian ever since I was a teenager (I'm in my 50s now) and my father never accepted it. Whenever I dropped round, he'd offer me a bacon sandwich or suchlike and then act all hurt when I turned it down. I never really understood his determination to make me eat meat when I was obviously doing fine without it.
I cook a lot and have people around if someone is a vegetarian/vegan I have always made a main dish for them that is vegatarian/vegan....what I won't do is make the whole main dish vegetarian/vegan. The rest of us will be eating meat
I'm the opposite. Rabid meat eater. But if I'm giving a dinner party and there is a veggie there I will give everyone veggie food. Gives me a chance to show off my creativity although warning: putting (delicious) open cap mushrooms in things turns everything grey. I think it's rude to give people different things effectively singling them out for their dietary choices. I invited them, after all.
If someone wants to make a dietary choice, then that's their choice, but everyone else doesn't have to suffer for it.
My choice is to eat meat, and if I was eating at a vegan household I'd be seriously impressed and pleased if they put the effort in to make a meal suitable to my choices, not feel singled out.
For some reason though most vegans think they should be catered for, but there's no onus on them to return the favour.
As I said I believe it is rude. I have invited the person for dinner and the essence of good manners is not to make someone feel awkward or out of place. Hence everyone gets veggie food. Rolling out a separate dish for them, although I'm sure would be appreciated, is imo bad manners. But then I'm an old fashioned kind of guy.
Not a dinner party scenario - but at family get together / big work dos I get quite annoyed at the lack of veggie offering; not because there is nothing but because meat eaters will eat both their meat option and my veggie option, meaning the veggie option depletes quite quickly despite not many veggies being at a thing. At work we’ve started ordering veggie only buffets - half the team is veggie or vegan and when we ordered meat options alongside they were always left over but the veggie stuff would go quickly.
Because there's virtually no nutrition in your veggie stuff and you are over indulging in what's essentially a side dish?
Reconsider your life.
What a pompous, crass and ill-informed comment.
‘Virtually no nutrition’ - you’re just trolling, aren’t you.
If you eat just rabbit food don't be surprised if you're still hungry after.
I don't know any vegetarians who eat only grass.
Don't be silly rabbits eat carrots I know this by the wild life show bugs bunny
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
Finally had a chance to look at the data tables for the Find Out Now poll.
They've done a kind of sub polling on the 120 safest Conservative seats and then on the next 120 or if you like the "Inner Blue Core" and the "Outer Blue Core".
Not sure how significant that is - they've also done seat predictions - a mere 82% for Labour in East Ham but it's bleak reading if you're a Tory and frustrating if you're a Lib Dem with any number of near misses.
The headline VI is a 20-point Labour lead (44-24) with the LDs on 12, Greens on 8, Reform 6 and SNP 4.
Beyond that, the tables aren't of much value - the weighted sample is much smaller than the unweighted. There is a sense in the numbers the Conservative vote in London is more resilient than in other parts of the country - whether this is down to Uxbridge or was a factor in the retention of Uxbridge I don't know but it's noticeable the core Conservative vote in London is more solid than elsewhere.
Among the three age groups which the Conservatives won last time - among those aged 45-54, a Conservative lead of 18 is now a Labour lead of 22 so a 20% swing. Among those aged 55-64, a 22 point Conservative lead is now a 3 point Labour lead so just a 12.5% swing. Among those aged 65+ a 47 point Conservative advantage has been reduced to 22 so again a 12.5% swing.
Among those aged 35-44, a 3-point Labour lead has become a 44-point gap so a 20.5% swing.
Thus can we begin to see the strength of the anti-Conservative swing among younger voters and a more modest but still noticeable swing among older voters.
Meat you can get whole cuts of unprocessed meat. Whereas you largely get processed crap for the alternative, which is nowhere near as healthy and not something we should wish upon our worst enemy.
While that might be true for an Asda own brand vegan burger, an Impossible burger contains 19g of protein, while there are 18g in a Beyond burger.
Also it’s a bean burger, not a pretend-meat burger! And if you think the beefburger *isn't* processed… well, ignorance is bliss I guess.
People get very strange very quickly when the consumption of flesh is questioned.
The idea that vegan food is ‘all processed carbs’ is just daft, unless you have an extraordinarily broad definition of ‘processed’ which extends to such processes as ‘picking fruit off a tree’.
It's entirely natural. The whole planet works on the basis of a living food chain.
What do people think consumes their flesh when our time on earth is up?
Little clue: they aren't vegan.
Natural does not equal necessary. It's natural for me to not be able to see clearly 4ft in front of my face, but I like my glasses. It's also natural to piss and shit straight onto the soil, but I'm sure people would get upset if I did that outside of any private compost heap I might decide to keep.
No one is saying that humans cannot get nutrients from meat, just that we can have a diet that doesn't include it.
If you feel that the consumption of meat is morally abhorrent, or just dislike the mass produced nature of a lot of meat now, then you can live a healthy life without eating meat.
Yes this is my position. I know that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy diet without meat as I haven't eaten meat in 35 years and am in great health. I've never tried to force this view on anyone else and as far as I can see on this forum the greatest proselytisers are from the eating dead animals camp. I do wish they would fuck off as I believe the government likes to put it.
I've never tried to make someone eat meat.
I've definitely had vegans and vegetarians try and make me eat their diet at events, either directly or through moral blackmail, or use their diet to exercise control in social situations. At a macro level there's a strong movement to tax or regulate me out of meat too.
So I wish they would fuck off, actually.
I've seen people - usually old fogies - insist on trying to feed meat to vegetarians or pescetarians even when given ample notice to go for one of their other perfectlyt normal recipes.
Yes, I've been vegetarian ever since I was a teenager (I'm in my 50s now) and my father never accepted it. Whenever I dropped round, he'd offer me a bacon sandwich or suchlike and then act all hurt when I turned it down. I never really understood his determination to make me eat meat when I was obviously doing fine without it.
I cook a lot and have people around if someone is a vegetarian/vegan I have always made a main dish for them that is vegatarian/vegan....what I won't do is make the whole main dish vegetarian/vegan. The rest of us will be eating meat
I'm the opposite. Rabid meat eater. But if I'm giving a dinner party and there is a veggie there I will give everyone veggie food. Gives me a chance to show off my creativity although warning: putting (delicious) open cap mushrooms in things turns everything grey. I think it's rude to give people different things effectively singling them out for their dietary choices. I invited them, after all.
If someone wants to make a dietary choice, then that's their choice, but everyone else doesn't have to suffer for it.
My choice is to eat meat, and if I was eating at a vegan household I'd be seriously impressed and pleased if they put the effort in to make a meal suitable to my choices, not feel singled out.
For some reason though most vegans think they should be catered for, but there's no onus on them to return the favour.
As I said I believe it is rude. I have invited the person for dinner and the essence of good manners is not to make someone feel awkward or out of place. Hence everyone gets veggie food. Rolling out a separate dish for them, although I'm sure would be appreciated, is imo bad manners. But then I'm an old fashioned kind of guy.
That is your choice, many though would be offended at not being served because someone is a vegetarian.
Not my friends. If they are offended because they don't get their lamb cutlets because another of my, likely our friends is a veggie then they wouldn't be a friend.
Frankly I would rather cut the veggie out
Again, more of a comment on you and I'm sure your dinner parties are a guinea a minute.
In my experience vegan/vegetarian friends are short term.....pretty much everyone I have had has at some point tried to lecture me about meat means murder and get told to fuck off
QED. People are lining up to bemoan the attitude of people at their dinner parties that they are never going to invite to their dinner parties.
No it means I am happy to invite them, make an effort for them. They don't however get to impose their standards on others.
Doesn't sound like you are talking about a friend. Sounds like you are talking about an imaginary vegan about whom you like to rant. If you are talking about a friend what a nasty attitude you have to your friends.
Ok here is another example. My step brother only likes his roast potato's, parsnips etc. burnt to a crisp. When I have him over for the sunday roast I get the potato's etc out then leave enough for him in the oven to overcook. By your argument I should serve everyone blackened roasties so he is not singled out.
I goto the extra hassle of making a good main dish for a vegetarian/vegan but that is not good enough....no it is there faddy diet and their choice. I catered for it just like I do with my stepbrother. I just refuse to let it impact others
But that is not the same is it. I'm a meat eater but I also love a veggie meal. Most (all) meat eaters do.
I like vegetables, I like meat and they go well together. Cannot remember the last time a meal I had was vegan certainly. Vegetarian when I have a cheese salad is about the closest I get.
I am not a huge fan of pulses and avoid them like the plague because I find them disgusting. Most vegetarian or vegan meals seem replete with them so yes I don't want generally to eat them as I don't like pulses (by which I mean any type of bean, lentils etc).
Macaroni cheese, Cauliflower cheese, vegetable curry. I had a lovely potato and cauliflower curry last night. My wife does a lovely stilton and walnut tart. How about a simple cheese omelette. Other favourites of mine are a fennel casserole or a vegetable crumble. How about beans on toast? Most of us have that sometimes.
There are lots of veggie meals. Vegan I grant you is a challenge.
Macaroni cheese should have bacon in it.
There's few things that aren't improved with bacon though.
Well I'm not going to disagree with that, ever.
One good thing about Canada is they put bacon in everything.
One Christmas there I even had Brussels Sprouts which were diced and served with diced bacon. Only enjoyable Brussels Sprouts I've ever had.
Brussels sprouts and diced bacon can be had from supermarkets at Christmas.
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
On topic, no the mistake would be to sack Lee Anderson. What exactly does Sunak get if he gets rid of Anderson? He doesn't get any LD and Labour voters thinking "oh maybe the Tories are not so bad after all" and he pisses off the people who respond to Lee Anderson's "robust" style. As for socially liberal Tories, if they have not left already, Anderson is not going to be the straw.
Now you can argue on taste grounds etc for a sacking but, from a political standpoint, I do not see the upside.
Well as someone who is going to vote Tory at the next election because of the Union and the seat I am in and would want to persuade others to do the same it might reduce my tendency to wince. Even if he was talking about people moaning about being on a barge.
These are human beings FFS. Don’t forget it.
But won’t change your vote, which is, I think TKC’s point. As someone who has never voted Tory I think I agree with TKC on the political point, even whilst vehemently agreeing with your last sentence.
On topic, no the mistake would be to sack Lee Anderson. What exactly does Sunak get if he gets rid of Anderson? He doesn't get any LD and Labour voters thinking "oh maybe the Tories are not so bad after all" and he pisses off the people who respond to Lee Anderson's "robust" style. As for socially liberal Tories, if they have not left already, Anderson is not going to be the straw.
Now you can argue on taste grounds etc for a sacking but, from a political standpoint, I do not see the upside.
Well as someone who is going to vote Tory at the next election because of the Union and the seat I am in and would want to persuade others to do the same it might reduce my tendency to wince. Even if he was talking about people moaning about being on a barge.
These are human beings FFS. Don’t forget it.
But won’t change your vote, which is, I think TKC’s point. As someone who has never voted Tory I think I agree with TKC on the political point, even whilst vehemently agreeing with your last sentence.
But it will affect my efforts to persuade others. How do you defend Braverman as Home Secretary? How do you defend this? There is a lot of government policy right now I think is shameful. Mainly on the refugee issue. We must retain our humanity and sense of decency.
Ah okay sorry, I see what you mean. And can see that as a unionist your electoral calculations are that much more complicated.
Though your point about Braverman surely still reinforces what TKC is saying, no? If someone l can stomach her and still tick the blue box, is Anderson any worse?
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
Which is my point I do me,you do you. If you come round for a meal I would serve you something you can eat. I would serve me a meal I can eat. Topping thinks that is rude
Finally had a chance to look at the data tables for the Find Out Now poll.
They've done a kind of sub polling on the 120 safest Conservative seats and then on the next 120 or if you like the "Inner Blue Core" and the "Outer Blue Core".
Not sure how significant that is - they've also done seat predictions - a mere 82% for Labour in East Ham but it's bleak reading if you're a Tory and frustrating if you're a Lib Dem with any number of near misses.
The headline VI is a 20-point Labour lead (44-24) with the LDs on 12, Greens on 8, Reform 6 and SNP 4.
Beyond that, the tables aren't of much value - the weighted sample is much smaller than the unweighted. There is a sense in the numbers the Conservative vote in London is more resilient than in other parts of the country - whether this is down to Uxbridge or was a factor in the retention of Uxbridge I don't know but it's noticeable the core Conservative vote in London is more solid than elsewhere.
Among the three age groups which the Conservatives won last time - among those aged 45-54, a Conservative lead of 18 is now a Labour lead of 22 so a 20% swing. Among those aged 55-64, a 22 point Conservative lead is now a 3 point Labour lead so just a 12.5% swing. Among those aged 65+ a 47 point Conservative advantage has been reduced to 22 so again a 12.5% swing.
Among those aged 35-44, a 3-point Labour lead has become a 44-point gap so a 20.5% swing.
Thus can we begin to see the strength of the anti-Conservative swing among younger voters and a more modest but still noticeable swing among older voters.
On London, I do wonder whether having a leader of Indian heritage is helping the Tories' core vote to hold up? There's a bit of evidence the same may be true of Leicester, for example. Elsewhere, of course, there could be a negative effect. Just a thought.
There's plenty of evidence switching to a diet containing meat was a big factor in the cerebral development of early humanity. There's also evidence a balanced moderate diet containing red meat, white meat, fish and vegetables isn't a bad idea either.
I've eaten some wonderful vegetarian food and I am less of a carnivore than I was - as far as venison is concerned, my brother-in-law in New Zealand is a decent shot and has served us roast venison in his time - he says it's a very lean meat and he uses bacon just to bring some fat to the table.
No there isn't, what would such evidence even look like? It's a vaguely plausible speculation based on near zero actual data, like everything else about anthropology.
quote
"A study of more than 218,000 adults from over 50 countries around the world suggests that consuming unprocessed meat regularly can reduce the risk of early death and can increase human longevity.73 A recent dietary advice published by Lancet Public Health advocates an increase of dietary meat in order to benefit our heart health and longevity.74 This study also highlights that saturated fat in meat may be cardio protective, as well as, that meat contains many vitamins and the essential amino acids for human health and well-being.73,74"
Meat you can get whole cuts of unprocessed meat. Whereas you largely get processed crap for the alternative, which is nowhere near as healthy and not something we should wish upon our worst enemy.
While that might be true for an Asda own brand vegan burger, an Impossible burger contains 19g of protein, while there are 18g in a Beyond burger.
Also it’s a bean burger, not a pretend-meat burger! And if you think the beefburger *isn't* processed… well, ignorance is bliss I guess.
People get very strange very quickly when the consumption of flesh is questioned.
The idea that vegan food is ‘all processed carbs’ is just daft, unless you have an extraordinarily broad definition of ‘processed’ which extends to such processes as ‘picking fruit off a tree’.
It's entirely natural. The whole planet works on the basis of a living food chain.
What do people think consumes their flesh when our time on earth is up?
Little clue: they aren't vegan.
Natural does not equal necessary. It's natural for me to not be able to see clearly 4ft in front of my face, but I like my glasses. It's also natural to piss and shit straight onto the soil, but I'm sure people would get upset if I did that outside of any private compost heap I might decide to keep.
No one is saying that humans cannot get nutrients from meat, just that we can have a diet that doesn't include it.
If you feel that the consumption of meat is morally abhorrent, or just dislike the mass produced nature of a lot of meat now, then you can live a healthy life without eating meat.
Yes this is my position. I know that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy diet without meat as I haven't eaten meat in 35 years and am in great health. I've never tried to force this view on anyone else and as far as I can see on this forum the greatest proselytisers are from the eating dead animals camp. I do wish they would fuck off as I believe the government likes to put it.
I've never tried to make someone eat meat.
I've definitely had vegans and vegetarians try and make me eat their diet at events, either directly or through moral blackmail, or use their diet to exercise control in social situations. At a macro level there's a strong movement to tax or regulate me out of meat too.
So I wish they would fuck off, actually.
I've seen people - usually old fogies - insist on trying to feed meat to vegetarians or pescetarians even when given ample notice to go for one of their other perfectlyt normal recipes.
Yes, I've been vegetarian ever since I was a teenager (I'm in my 50s now) and my father never accepted it. Whenever I dropped round, he'd offer me a bacon sandwich or suchlike and then act all hurt when I turned it down. I never really understood his determination to make me eat meat when I was obviously doing fine without it.
I cook a lot and have people around if someone is a vegetarian/vegan I have always made a main dish for them that is vegatarian/vegan....what I won't do is make the whole main dish vegetarian/vegan. The rest of us will be eating meat
I'm the opposite. Rabid meat eater. But if I'm giving a dinner party and there is a veggie there I will give everyone veggie food. Gives me a chance to show off my creativity although warning: putting (delicious) open cap mushrooms in things turns everything grey. I think it's rude to give people different things effectively singling them out for their dietary choices. I invited them, after all.
If someone wants to make a dietary choice, then that's their choice, but everyone else doesn't have to suffer for it.
My choice is to eat meat, and if I was eating at a vegan household I'd be seriously impressed and pleased if they put the effort in to make a meal suitable to my choices, not feel singled out.
For some reason though most vegans think they should be catered for, but there's no onus on them to return the favour.
As I said I believe it is rude. I have invited the person for dinner and the essence of good manners is not to make someone feel awkward or out of place. Hence everyone gets veggie food. Rolling out a separate dish for them, although I'm sure would be appreciated, is imo bad manners. But then I'm an old fashioned kind of guy.
That is your choice, many though would be offended at not being served because someone is a vegetarian.
Not my friends. If they are offended because they don't get their lamb cutlets because another of my, likely our friends is a veggie then they wouldn't be a friend.
Frankly I would rather cut the veggie out
Again, more of a comment on you and I'm sure your dinner parties are a guinea a minute.
In my experience vegan/vegetarian friends are short term.....pretty much everyone I have had has at some point tried to lecture me about meat means murder and get told to fuck off
QED. People are lining up to bemoan the attitude of people at their dinner parties that they are never going to invite to their dinner parties.
No it means I am happy to invite them, make an effort for them. They don't however get to impose their standards on others.
Doesn't sound like you are talking about a friend. Sounds like you are talking about an imaginary vegan about whom you like to rant. If you are talking about a friend what a nasty attitude you have to your friends.
Ok here is another example. My step brother only likes his roast potato's, parsnips etc. burnt to a crisp. When I have him over for the sunday roast I get the potato's etc out then leave enough for him in the oven to overcook. By your argument I should serve everyone blackened roasties so he is not singled out.
I goto the extra hassle of making a good main dish for a vegetarian/vegan but that is not good enough....no it is there faddy diet and their choice. I catered for it just like I do with my stepbrother. I just refuse to let it impact others
But that is not the same is it. I'm a meat eater but I also love a veggie meal. Most (all) meat eaters do.
I like vegetables, I like meat and they go well together. Cannot remember the last time a meal I had was vegan certainly. Vegetarian when I have a cheese salad is about the closest I get.
I am not a huge fan of pulses and avoid them like the plague because I find them disgusting. Most vegetarian or vegan meals seem replete with them so yes I don't want generally to eat them as I don't like pulses (by which I mean any type of bean, lentils etc).
Macaroni cheese, Cauliflower cheese, vegetable curry. I had a lovely potato and cauliflower curry last night. My wife does a lovely stilton and walnut tart. How about a simple cheese omelette. Other favourites of mine are a fennel casserole or a vegetable crumble. How about beans on toast? Most of us have that sometimes.
There are lots of veggie meals. Vegan I grant you is a challenge.
Macaroni cheese should have bacon in it.
There's few things that aren't improved with bacon though.
Well I'm not going to disagree with that, ever.
Conversely, few things aren't improved with cheese.
Burgers? I am really not a fan of cheese burgers. Oh, and soup, especially if it’s blue cheese which I adore but makes a disgusting soup.
Asparagus and stilton soup is yummy
No it’s not. And one of my favourite meals in my life was in Stratford upon Avon where “desert” was a Stilton you had to scoop out with a spoon. Utterly divine. Best cheese I’ve ever had. Just keep it away from the soup.
NEVER SCOOP STILTON OUT WITH A SPOON DEAR GOD IN HEAVEN.
Cut it horizontally.
This was honestly too runny to cut. It was nearly 30 years ago and I remember the taste even yet.
Stilton too runny to cut? What? Are you sure? I mean I don't want to puncture one of your key memories but I can't see it. You mean they gave you a round or a half a round of stilton and a spoon and it was too runny? Hmm.
It was a whole Stilton with the top cut off and you scooped the inside out of it. Never seen the like again. It didn’t have much similarity to the bits you get cut in even a good cheese shop but it was sensational.
You'd really love Shropshire blue (if you haven't had it) the texture is so smooth, it's amazing. A far more consistent cheese than Stilton.
Dorset Blue Vinny is a great cheese with an interesting history. Made on one farm near Sturminster Newton.
Finally had a chance to look at the data tables for the Find Out Now poll.
They've done a kind of sub polling on the 120 safest Conservative seats and then on the next 120 or if you like the "Inner Blue Core" and the "Outer Blue Core".
Not sure how significant that is - they've also done seat predictions - a mere 82% for Labour in East Ham but it's bleak reading if you're a Tory and frustrating if you're a Lib Dem with any number of near misses.
The headline VI is a 20-point Labour lead (44-24) with the LDs on 12, Greens on 8, Reform 6 and SNP 4.
Beyond that, the tables aren't of much value - the weighted sample is much smaller than the unweighted. There is a sense in the numbers the Conservative vote in London is more resilient than in other parts of the country - whether this is down to Uxbridge or was a factor in the retention of Uxbridge I don't know but it's noticeable the core Conservative vote in London is more solid than elsewhere.
Among the three age groups which the Conservatives won last time - among those aged 45-54, a Conservative lead of 18 is now a Labour lead of 22 so a 20% swing. Among those aged 55-64, a 22 point Conservative lead is now a 3 point Labour lead so just a 12.5% swing. Among those aged 65+ a 47 point Conservative advantage has been reduced to 22 so again a 12.5% swing.
Among those aged 35-44, a 3-point Labour lead has become a 44-point gap so a 20.5% swing.
Thus can we begin to see the strength of the anti-Conservative swing among younger voters and a more modest but still noticeable swing among older voters.
On London, I do wonder whether having a leader of Indian heritage is helping the Tories' core vote to hold up? There's a bit of evidence the same may be true of Leicester, for example. Elsewhere, of course, there could be a negative effect. Just a thought.
I don't know - the win in Harrow last year against the tide was perhaps a sign.
There's a large Indian (mainly from the south) population in my part of London (East Ham) and I'm pushed to see a big difference so far. To be fair, the Hindu Conservative candidate at the recent Wall End by-election did okay while the Conservative vote in the more Muslim Boleyn Ward collapsed.
Hopefully we'll see more detailed polling on this nearer the GE - it's a theory that's been advanced and I certainly wouldn't discount it.
There's plenty of evidence switching to a diet containing meat was a big factor in the cerebral development of early humanity. There's also evidence a balanced moderate diet containing red meat, white meat, fish and vegetables isn't a bad idea either.
I've eaten some wonderful vegetarian food and I am less of a carnivore than I was - as far as venison is concerned, my brother-in-law in New Zealand is a decent shot and has served us roast venison in his time - he says it's a very lean meat and he uses bacon just to bring some fat to the table.
No there isn't, what would such evidence even look like? It's a vaguely plausible speculation based on near zero actual data, like everything else about anthropology.
quote
"A study of more than 218,000 adults from over 50 countries around the world suggests that consuming unprocessed meat regularly can reduce the risk of early death and can increase human longevity.73 A recent dietary advice published by Lancet Public Health advocates an increase of dietary meat in order to benefit our heart health and longevity.74 This study also highlights that saturated fat in meat may be cardio protective, as well as, that meat contains many vitamins and the essential amino acids for human health and well-being.73,74"
Which was sort of the point the studies I posted made. Its not a meat is bad for you thing when you look at lifestyles. Just more meat eaters because we are the majority also do other shit that is detrimental to longetivity.
Other thing to ask is increased longetivity is that actually a good thing. If most for example get some level of dementia in their low 80's whats the advantage of living to your mid 90's just gives you extended time in adult diapers
Finally had a chance to look at the data tables for the Find Out Now poll.
They've done a kind of sub polling on the 120 safest Conservative seats and then on the next 120 or if you like the "Inner Blue Core" and the "Outer Blue Core".
Not sure how significant that is - they've also done seat predictions - a mere 82% for Labour in East Ham but it's bleak reading if you're a Tory and frustrating if you're a Lib Dem with any number of near misses.
The headline VI is a 20-point Labour lead (44-24) with the LDs on 12, Greens on 8, Reform 6 and SNP 4.
Beyond that, the tables aren't of much value - the weighted sample is much smaller than the unweighted. There is a sense in the numbers the Conservative vote in London is more resilient than in other parts of the country - whether this is down to Uxbridge or was a factor in the retention of Uxbridge I don't know but it's noticeable the core Conservative vote in London is more solid than elsewhere.
Among the three age groups which the Conservatives won last time - among those aged 45-54, a Conservative lead of 18 is now a Labour lead of 22 so a 20% swing. Among those aged 55-64, a 22 point Conservative lead is now a 3 point Labour lead so just a 12.5% swing. Among those aged 65+ a 47 point Conservative advantage has been reduced to 22 so again a 12.5% swing.
Among those aged 35-44, a 3-point Labour lead has become a 44-point gap so a 20.5% swing.
Thus can we begin to see the strength of the anti-Conservative swing among younger voters and a more modest but still noticeable swing among older voters.
On London, I do wonder whether having a leader of Indian heritage is helping the Tories' core vote to hold up? There's a bit of evidence the same may be true of Leicester, for example. Elsewhere, of course, there could be a negative effect. Just a thought.
I agree about the positive effect in London, Leicester, etc, but not about the negative one elsewhere.
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
The fact that vegan food can be presented in an exciting way, and taste delicious, has never been in dispute (at least not by me). What I take issue with is the promotion of veganism as a healthy alternative diet. It simply isn't - it takes a lot of effort to maintain health on it, and necessitates artificial supplementation or artificially fortified foods. I don't see a difference between the promotion of veganism and the promotion of junk food - they are both driven by agribusiness/food processors looking to make a buck from the credulous.
Talking of human evolution. Nile crocs are sensitive to sound of crying human babies. Lovely Circle-of-Life explanation, maternal instinct gonna instinc even across taxonomic classes. Less lovely explanation, That sounds edible.
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
The fact that vegan food can be presented in an exciting way, and taste delicious, has never been in dispute (at least not by me). What I take issue with is the promotion of veganism as a healthy alternative diet. It simply isn't - it takes a lot of effort to maintain health on it, and necessitates artificial supplementation or artificially fortified foods. I don't see a difference between the promotion of veganism and the promotion of junk food - they are both driven by agribusiness/food processors looking to make a buck from the credulous.
There is no doubt that to eat a healthy vegan diet takes time and planning, and is expensive-buying fresh produce and making a meal from it costs more in time and money than an Aldi ready made lasagne does. I'd still argue that my vegan lasagne is healthier and more nutritious than the Aldi one.
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
The fact that vegan food can be presented in an exciting way, and taste delicious, has never been in dispute (at least not by me). What I take issue with is the promotion of veganism as a healthy alternative diet. It simply isn't - it takes a lot of effort to maintain health on it, and necessitates artificial supplementation or artificially fortified foods. I don't see a difference between the promotion of veganism and the promotion of junk food - they are both driven by agribusiness/food processors looking to make a buck from the credulous.
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
I was with you until you mentioned aubergine. This is sometimes my problem when eating out - the meat free options all containing things I can't stand.
I've had a couple of weeks off the wagon. A couple of times in Texas the buffet options were meat, meat, meat or nowt.
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
The fact that vegan food can be presented in an exciting way, and taste delicious, has never been in dispute (at least not by me). What I take issue with is the promotion of veganism as a healthy alternative diet. It simply isn't - it takes a lot of effort to maintain health on it, and necessitates artificial supplementation or artificially fortified foods. I don't see a difference between the promotion of veganism and the promotion of junk food - they are both driven by agribusiness/food processors looking to make a buck from the credulous.
Also those oreos arent vegan
Quote The longer answer As the Oreo FAQ page states, while Oreos are indeed veggie-friendly, they are not strictly vegan as ‘Oreo have milk as cross-contact and therefore they are not suitable for vegans’.
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
The fact that vegan food can be presented in an exciting way, and taste delicious, has never been in dispute (at least not by me). What I take issue with is the promotion of veganism as a healthy alternative diet. It simply isn't - it takes a lot of effort to maintain health on it, and necessitates artificial supplementation or artificially fortified foods. I don't see a difference between the promotion of veganism and the promotion of junk food - they are both driven by agribusiness/food processors looking to make a buck from the credulous.
I put on about 3stones while I was vegan.
Vegan pasties - just say 'no', kids.
I think the fats used (in place of butter and meat derived fats) aren't great. Coconut oil is a wonderful vegan fat to cook with, but how much of that finds its way into processed vegan food?
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
The fact that vegan food can be presented in an exciting way, and taste delicious, has never been in dispute (at least not by me). What I take issue with is the promotion of veganism as a healthy alternative diet. It simply isn't - it takes a lot of effort to maintain health on it, and necessitates artificial supplementation or artificially fortified foods. I don't see a difference between the promotion of veganism and the promotion of junk food - they are both driven by agribusiness/food processors looking to make a buck from the credulous.
I put on about 3stones while I was vegan.
Vegan pasties - just say 'no', kids.
Vegan junk food is no better than any junk food, although you'd be surprised just how much "normal " junk food is vegan!
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
The fact that vegan food can be presented in an exciting way, and taste delicious, has never been in dispute (at least not by me). What I take issue with is the promotion of veganism as a healthy alternative diet. It simply isn't - it takes a lot of effort to maintain health on it, and necessitates artificial supplementation or artificially fortified foods. I don't see a difference between the promotion of veganism and the promotion of junk food - they are both driven by agribusiness/food processors looking to make a buck from the credulous.
There is no doubt that to eat a healthy vegan diet takes time and planning, and is expensive-buying fresh produce and making a meal from it costs more in time and money than an Aldi ready made lasagne does. I'd still argue that my vegan lasagne is healthier and more nutritious than the Aldi one.
It certainly is easier and often cheaper to eat crap processed food, full of sugar saturated fat and salt.
That is a large part of why we have an obesity, and diabetes problem in this country.
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
The fact that vegan food can be presented in an exciting way, and taste delicious, has never been in dispute (at least not by me). What I take issue with is the promotion of veganism as a healthy alternative diet. It simply isn't - it takes a lot of effort to maintain health on it, and necessitates artificial supplementation or artificially fortified foods. I don't see a difference between the promotion of veganism and the promotion of junk food - they are both driven by agribusiness/food processors looking to make a buck from the credulous.
I put on about 3stones while I was vegan.
Vegan pasties - just say 'no', kids.
Vegan junk food is no better than any junk food, although
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
The fact that vegan food can be presented in an exciting way, and taste delicious, has never been in dispute (at least not by me). What I take issue with is the promotion of veganism as a healthy alternative diet. It simply isn't - it takes a lot of effort to maintain health on it, and necessitates artificial supplementation or artificially fortified foods. I don't see a difference between the promotion of veganism and the promotion of junk food - they are both driven by agribusiness/food processors looking to make a buck from the credulous.
There is no doubt that to eat a healthy vegan diet takes time and planning, and is expensive-buying fresh produce and making a meal from it costs more in time and money than an Aldi ready made lasagne does. I'd still argue that my vegan lasagne is healthier and more nutritious than the Aldi one.
It certainly is easier and often cheaper to eat crap processed food, full of sugar saturated fat and salt.
That is a large part of why we have an obesity, and diabetes problem in this country.
Meat you can get whole cuts of unprocessed meat. Whereas you largely get processed crap for the alternative, which is nowhere near as healthy and not something we should wish upon our worst enemy.
While that might be true for an Asda own brand vegan burger, an Impossible burger contains 19g of protein, while there are 18g in a Beyond burger.
Also it’s a bean burger, not a pretend-meat burger! And if you think the beefburger *isn't* processed… well, ignorance is bliss I guess.
People get very strange very quickly when the consumption of flesh is questioned.
The idea that vegan food is ‘all processed carbs’ is just daft, unless you have an extraordinarily broad definition of ‘processed’ which extends to such processes as ‘picking fruit off a tree’.
It's entirely natural. The whole planet works on the basis of a living food chain.
What do people think consumes their flesh when our time on earth is up?
Little clue: they aren't vegan.
Natural does not equal necessary. It's natural for me to not be able to see clearly 4ft in front of my face, but I like my glasses. It's also natural to piss and shit straight onto the soil, but I'm sure people would get upset if I did that outside of any private compost heap I might decide to keep.
No one is saying that humans cannot get nutrients from meat, just that we can have a diet that doesn't include it.
If you feel that the consumption of meat is morally abhorrent, or just dislike the mass produced nature of a lot of meat now, then you can live a healthy life without eating meat.
Yes this is my position. I know that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy diet without meat as I haven't eaten meat in 35 years and am in great health. I've never tried to force this view on anyone else and as far as I can see on this forum the greatest proselytisers are from the eating dead animals camp. I do wish they would fuck off as I believe the government likes to put it.
I've never tried to make someone eat meat.
I've definitely had vegans and vegetarians try and make me eat their diet at events, either directly or through moral blackmail, or use their diet to exercise control in social situations. At a macro level there's a strong movement to tax or regulate me out of meat too.
So I wish they would fuck off, actually.
I've seen people - usually old fogies - insist on trying to feed meat to vegetarians or pescetarians even when given ample notice to go for one of their other perfectlyt normal recipes.
Yes, I've been vegetarian ever since I was a teenager (I'm in my 50s now) and my father never accepted it. Whenever I dropped round, he'd offer me a bacon sandwich or suchlike and then act all hurt when I turned it down. I never really understood his determination to make me eat meat when I was obviously doing fine without it.
I cook a lot and have people around if someone is a vegetarian/vegan I have always made a main dish for them that is vegatarian/vegan....what I won't do is make the whole main dish vegetarian/vegan. The rest of us will be eating meat
I'm the opposite. Rabid meat eater. But if I'm giving a dinner party and there is a veggie there I will give everyone veggie food. Gives me a chance to show off my creativity although warning: putting (delicious) open cap mushrooms in things turns everything grey. I think it's rude to give people different things effectively singling them out for their dietary choices. I invited them, after all.
If someone wants to make a dietary choice, then that's their choice, but everyone else doesn't have to suffer for it.
My choice is to eat meat, and if I was eating at a vegan household I'd be seriously impressed and pleased if they put the effort in to make a meal suitable to my choices, not feel singled out.
For some reason though most vegans think they should be catered for, but there's no onus on them to return the favour.
As I said I believe it is rude. I have invited the person for dinner and the essence of good manners is not to make someone feel awkward or out of place. Hence everyone gets veggie food. Rolling out a separate dish for them, although I'm sure would be appreciated, is imo bad manners. But then I'm an old fashioned kind of guy.
That is your choice, many though would be offended at not being served because someone is a vegetarian.
Not my friends. If they are offended because they don't get their lamb cutlets because another of my, likely our friends is a veggie then they wouldn't be a friend.
Frankly I would rather cut the veggie out
Again, more of a comment on you and I'm sure your dinner parties are a guinea a minute.
In my experience vegan/vegetarian friends are short term.....pretty much everyone I have had has at some point tried to lecture me about meat means murder and get told to fuck off
QED. People are lining up to bemoan the attitude of people at their dinner parties that they are never going to invite to their dinner parties.
No it means I am happy to invite them, make an effort for them. They don't however get to impose their standards on others.
Doesn't sound like you are talking about a friend. Sounds like you are talking about an imaginary vegan about whom you like to rant. If you are talking about a friend what a nasty attitude you have to your friends.
Ok here is another example. My step brother only likes his roast potato's, parsnips etc. burnt to a crisp. When I have him over for the sunday roast I get the potato's etc out then leave enough for him in the oven to overcook. By your argument I should serve everyone blackened roasties so he is not singled out.
I goto the extra hassle of making a good main dish for a vegetarian/vegan but that is not good enough....no it is there faddy diet and their choice. I catered for it just like I do with my stepbrother. I just refuse to let it impact others
But that is not the same is it. I'm a meat eater but I also love a veggie meal. Most (all) meat eaters do.
I like vegetables, I like meat and they go well together. Cannot remember the last time a meal I had was vegan certainly. Vegetarian when I have a cheese salad is about the closest I get.
I am not a huge fan of pulses and avoid them like the plague because I find them disgusting. Most vegetarian or vegan meals seem replete with them so yes I don't want generally to eat them as I don't like pulses (by which I mean any type of bean, lentils etc).
Macaroni cheese, Cauliflower cheese, vegetable curry. I had a lovely potato and cauliflower curry last night. My wife does a lovely stilton and walnut tart. How about a simple cheese omelette. Other favourites of mine are a fennel casserole or a vegetable crumble. How about beans on toast? Most of us have that sometimes.
There are lots of veggie meals. Vegan I grant you is a challenge.
Macaroni cheese should have bacon in it.
There's few things that aren't improved with bacon though.
Well I'm not going to disagree with that, ever.
Conversely, few things aren't improved with cheese.
Burgers? I am really not a fan of cheese burgers. Oh, and soup, especially if it’s blue cheese which I adore but makes a disgusting soup.
Asparagus and stilton soup is yummy
No it’s not. And one of my favourite meals in my life was in Stratford upon Avon where “desert” was a Stilton you had to scoop out with a spoon. Utterly divine. Best cheese I’ve ever had. Just keep it away from the soup.
NEVER SCOOP STILTON OUT WITH A SPOON DEAR GOD IN HEAVEN.
Cut it horizontally.
This was honestly too runny to cut. It was nearly 30 years ago and I remember the taste even yet.
Stilton too runny to cut? What? Are you sure? I mean I don't want to puncture one of your key memories but I can't see it. You mean they gave you a round or a half a round of stilton and a spoon and it was too runny? Hmm.
It was a whole Stilton with the top cut off and you scooped the inside out of it. Never seen the like again. It didn’t have much similarity to the bits you get cut in even a good cheese shop but it was sensational.
You'd really love Shropshire blue (if you haven't had it) the texture is so smooth, it's amazing. A far more consistent cheese than Stilton.
If you like blue cheese - then Picos is worth checking out. Also Basajo. Both quite unique. From my local hardcore dealer :
In response to the mild disorder in Oxford Street following the Tiktok "meet at 3pm, bring balaclava and gloves" thing, the police have issued a dispersal order which according to the Heil covers an area that includes Soho and Covent Garden and lasts until tomorrow evening:
Makes sense to go up Mayfair instead, lol.
Actually on the streets little has happened, but it's interesting how there is a capability to get such headlines, photos, and video clips onto news sites.
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
The fact that vegan food can be presented in an exciting way, and taste delicious, has never been in dispute (at least not by me). What I take issue with is the promotion of veganism as a healthy alternative diet. It simply isn't - it takes a lot of effort to maintain health on it, and necessitates artificial supplementation or artificially fortified foods. I don't see a difference between the promotion of veganism and the promotion of junk food - they are both driven by agribusiness/food processors looking to make a buck from the credulous.
I put on about 3stones while I was vegan.
Vegan pasties - just say 'no', kids.
Vegan junk food is no better than any junk food, although
Meat you can get whole cuts of unprocessed meat. Whereas you largely get processed crap for the alternative, which is nowhere near as healthy and not something we should wish upon our worst enemy.
While that might be true for an Asda own brand vegan burger, an Impossible burger contains 19g of protein, while there are 18g in a Beyond burger.
Also it’s a bean burger, not a pretend-meat burger! And if you think the beefburger *isn't* processed… well, ignorance is bliss I guess.
People get very strange very quickly when the consumption of flesh is questioned.
The idea that vegan food is ‘all processed carbs’ is just daft, unless you have an extraordinarily broad definition of ‘processed’ which extends to such processes as ‘picking fruit off a tree’.
It's entirely natural. The whole planet works on the basis of a living food chain.
What do people think consumes their flesh when our time on earth is up?
Little clue: they aren't vegan.
Natural does not equal necessary. It's natural for me to not be able to see clearly 4ft in front of my face, but I like my glasses. It's also natural to piss and shit straight onto the soil, but I'm sure people would get upset if I did that outside of any private compost heap I might decide to keep.
No one is saying that humans cannot get nutrients from meat, just that we can have a diet that doesn't include it.
If you feel that the consumption of meat is morally abhorrent, or just dislike the mass produced nature of a lot of meat now, then you can live a healthy life without eating meat.
Yes this is my position. I know that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy diet without meat as I haven't eaten meat in 35 years and am in great health. I've never tried to force this view on anyone else and as far as I can see on this forum the greatest proselytisers are from the eating dead animals camp. I do wish they would fuck off as I believe the government likes to put it.
I've never tried to make someone eat meat.
I've definitely had vegans and vegetarians try and make me eat their diet at events, either directly or through moral blackmail, or use their diet to exercise control in social situations. At a macro level there's a strong movement to tax or regulate me out of meat too.
So I wish they would fuck off, actually.
I've seen people - usually old fogies - insist on trying to feed meat to vegetarians or pescetarians even when given ample notice to go for one of their other perfectlyt normal recipes.
Yes, I've been vegetarian ever since I was a teenager (I'm in my 50s now) and my father never accepted it. Whenever I dropped round, he'd offer me a bacon sandwich or suchlike and then act all hurt when I turned it down. I never really understood his determination to make me eat meat when I was obviously doing fine without it.
I cook a lot and have people around if someone is a vegetarian/vegan I have always made a main dish for them that is vegatarian/vegan....what I won't do is make the whole main dish vegetarian/vegan. The rest of us will be eating meat
I'm the opposite. Rabid meat eater. But if I'm giving a dinner party and there is a veggie there I will give everyone veggie food. Gives me a chance to show off my creativity although warning: putting (delicious) open cap mushrooms in things turns everything grey. I think it's rude to give people different things effectively singling them out for their dietary choices. I invited them, after all.
If someone wants to make a dietary choice, then that's their choice, but everyone else doesn't have to suffer for it.
My choice is to eat meat, and if I was eating at a vegan household I'd be seriously impressed and pleased if they put the effort in to make a meal suitable to my choices, not feel singled out.
For some reason though most vegans think they should be catered for, but there's no onus on them to return the favour.
As I said I believe it is rude. I have invited the person for dinner and the essence of good manners is not to make someone feel awkward or out of place. Hence everyone gets veggie food. Rolling out a separate dish for them, although I'm sure would be appreciated, is imo bad manners. But then I'm an old fashioned kind of guy.
Not a dinner party scenario - but at family get together / big work dos I get quite annoyed at the lack of veggie offering; not because there is nothing but because meat eaters will eat both their meat option and my veggie option, meaning the veggie option depletes quite quickly despite not many veggies being at a thing. At work we’ve started ordering veggie only buffets - half the team is veggie or vegan and when we ordered meat options alongside they were always left over but the veggie stuff would go quickly.
Because there's virtually no nutrition in your veggie stuff and you are over indulging in what's essentially a side dish?
Reconsider your life.
What a pompous, crass and ill-informed comment.
‘Virtually no nutrition’ - you’re just trolling, aren’t you.
If you eat just rabbit food don't be surprised if you're still hungry after.
Anderson's comments may be a bit uncouth for the upper middle classes but in the redwall where his seat is I expect most voters will agree with his comments that if the asylum seekers don't like the barge accomodation the government gives them, they can go back to France.
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
The fact that vegan food can be presented in an exciting way, and taste delicious, has never been in dispute (at least not by me). What I take issue with is the promotion of veganism as a healthy alternative diet. It simply isn't - it takes a lot of effort to maintain health on it, and necessitates artificial supplementation or artificially fortified foods. I don't see a difference between the promotion of veganism and the promotion of junk food - they are both driven by agribusiness/food processors looking to make a buck from the credulous.
I put on about 3stones while I was vegan.
Vegan pasties - just say 'no', kids.
I think the fats used (in place of butter and meat derived fats) aren't great. Coconut oil is a wonderful vegan fat to cook with, but how much of that finds its way into processed vegan food?
Not sure - but it was interesting to experience the 'Plant based!' marketing as 'Thus totally healthy!' that was going on.
I'm not blaming anyone for my greed other than myself. But it did make me even more suspicious of all the 'Plant Based!' advertising drive.
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
The fact that vegan food can be presented in an exciting way, and taste delicious, has never been in dispute (at least not by me). What I take issue with is the promotion of veganism as a healthy alternative diet. It simply isn't - it takes a lot of effort to maintain health on it, and necessitates artificial supplementation or artificially fortified foods. I don't see a difference between the promotion of veganism and the promotion of junk food - they are both driven by agribusiness/food processors looking to make a buck from the credulous.
I put on about 3stones while I was vegan.
Vegan pasties - just say 'no', kids.
Vegan junk food is no better than any junk food, although
Indeed - but it has great marketing.
Does it? I used to get the occasional burger king then they did their get woke advert for something or other never eaten there since. So how many customers like me that said no fuck off vs ones they gained. Most burger kings now when I walk past seem empty compared to burger chains that didnt
In response to the mild disorder in Oxford Street following the Tiktok "meet at 3pm, bring balaclava and gloves" thing, the police have issued a dispersal order which according to the Heil covers an area that includes Soho and Covent Garden and lasts until tomorrow evening:
Makes sense to go up Mayfair instead, lol.
Actually on the streets little has happened, but it's interesting how there is a capability to get such headlines, photos, and video clips onto news sites.
There'll be more of this.
I was coming back via Oxford Circus this evening and more police in the area than I have ever seen
Finally had a chance to look at the data tables for the Find Out Now poll.
They've done a kind of sub polling on the 120 safest Conservative seats and then on the next 120 or if you like the "Inner Blue Core" and the "Outer Blue Core".
Not sure how significant that is - they've also done seat predictions - a mere 82% for Labour in East Ham but it's bleak reading if you're a Tory and frustrating if you're a Lib Dem with any number of near misses.
The headline VI is a 20-point Labour lead (44-24) with the LDs on 12, Greens on 8, Reform 6 and SNP 4.
Beyond that, the tables aren't of much value - the weighted sample is much smaller than the unweighted. There is a sense in the numbers the Conservative vote in London is more resilient than in other parts of the country - whether this is down to Uxbridge or was a factor in the retention of Uxbridge I don't know but it's noticeable the core Conservative vote in London is more solid than elsewhere.
Among the three age groups which the Conservatives won last time - among those aged 45-54, a Conservative lead of 18 is now a Labour lead of 22 so a 20% swing. Among those aged 55-64, a 22 point Conservative lead is now a 3 point Labour lead so just a 12.5% swing. Among those aged 65+ a 47 point Conservative advantage has been reduced to 22 so again a 12.5% swing.
Among those aged 35-44, a 3-point Labour lead has become a 44-point gap so a 20.5% swing.
Thus can we begin to see the strength of the anti-Conservative swing among younger voters and a more modest but still noticeable swing among older voters.
On London, I do wonder whether having a leader of Indian heritage is helping the Tories' core vote to hold up? There's a bit of evidence the same may be true of Leicester, for example. Elsewhere, of course, there could be a negative effect. Just a thought.
I agree about the positive effect in London, Leicester, etc, but not about the negative one elsewhere.
I can’t seem to find it now, but I tracked down a robust study into voting habits by religion a while back.
The ‘Hindu vote’, as far as you can generalise about a group that way, tends to skew a bit to Labour on the whole.
@HYUFD maintains that this was a significant factor in the Uxbridge win - personally I’m less convinced but I guess you can’t rule it out.
Finally had a chance to look at the data tables for the Find Out Now poll.
They've done a kind of sub polling on the 120 safest Conservative seats and then on the next 120 or if you like the "Inner Blue Core" and the "Outer Blue Core".
Not sure how significant that is - they've also done seat predictions - a mere 82% for Labour in East Ham but it's bleak reading if you're a Tory and frustrating if you're a Lib Dem with any number of near misses.
The headline VI is a 20-point Labour lead (44-24) with the LDs on 12, Greens on 8, Reform 6 and SNP 4.
Beyond that, the tables aren't of much value - the weighted sample is much smaller than the unweighted. There is a sense in the numbers the Conservative vote in London is more resilient than in other parts of the country - whether this is down to Uxbridge or was a factor in the retention of Uxbridge I don't know but it's noticeable the core Conservative vote in London is more solid than elsewhere.
Among the three age groups which the Conservatives won last time - among those aged 45-54, a Conservative lead of 18 is now a Labour lead of 22 so a 20% swing. Among those aged 55-64, a 22 point Conservative lead is now a 3 point Labour lead so just a 12.5% swing. Among those aged 65+ a 47 point Conservative advantage has been reduced to 22 so again a 12.5% swing.
Among those aged 35-44, a 3-point Labour lead has become a 44-point gap so a 20.5% swing.
Thus can we begin to see the strength of the anti-Conservative swing among younger voters and a more modest but still noticeable swing among older voters.
On London, I do wonder whether having a leader of Indian heritage is helping the Tories' core vote to hold up? There's a bit of evidence the same may be true of Leicester, for example. Elsewhere, of course, there could be a negative effect. Just a thought.
My head canon says that the Reform figures are inflated by those Conservatives who are racist and don't want to admit to it to pollsters. Which makes me wonder what they will do at a GE?
Finally had a chance to look at the data tables for the Find Out Now poll.
They've done a kind of sub polling on the 120 safest Conservative seats and then on the next 120 or if you like the "Inner Blue Core" and the "Outer Blue Core".
Not sure how significant that is - they've also done seat predictions - a mere 82% for Labour in East Ham but it's bleak reading if you're a Tory and frustrating if you're a Lib Dem with any number of near misses.
The headline VI is a 20-point Labour lead (44-24) with the LDs on 12, Greens on 8, Reform 6 and SNP 4.
Beyond that, the tables aren't of much value - the weighted sample is much smaller than the unweighted. There is a sense in the numbers the Conservative vote in London is more resilient than in other parts of the country - whether this is down to Uxbridge or was a factor in the retention of Uxbridge I don't know but it's noticeable the core Conservative vote in London is more solid than elsewhere.
Among the three age groups which the Conservatives won last time - among those aged 45-54, a Conservative lead of 18 is now a Labour lead of 22 so a 20% swing. Among those aged 55-64, a 22 point Conservative lead is now a 3 point Labour lead so just a 12.5% swing. Among those aged 65+ a 47 point Conservative advantage has been reduced to 22 so again a 12.5% swing.
Among those aged 35-44, a 3-point Labour lead has become a 44-point gap so a 20.5% swing.
Thus can we begin to see the strength of the anti-Conservative swing among younger voters and a more modest but still noticeable swing among older voters.
On London, I do wonder whether having a leader of Indian heritage is helping the Tories' core vote to hold up? There's a bit of evidence the same may be true of Leicester, for example. Elsewhere, of course, there could be a negative effect. Just a thought.
I agree about the positive effect in London, Leicester, etc, but not about the negative one elsewhere.
I can’t seem to find it now, but I tracked down a robust study into voting habits by religion a while back.
The ‘Hindu vote’, as far as you can generalise about a group that way, tends to skew a bit to Labour on the whole.
@HYUFD maintains that this was a significant factor in the Uxbridge win - personally I’m less convinced but I guess you can’t rule it out.
I think it has changed a bit since Sunak has taken over. His friendliness with Modi's Hindu nationalism plays well in some quarters. Less so in others. Sikhs and secular Indians are often repulsed, but it is a genuine phenomenon.
Finally had a chance to look at the data tables for the Find Out Now poll.
They've done a kind of sub polling on the 120 safest Conservative seats and then on the next 120 or if you like the "Inner Blue Core" and the "Outer Blue Core".
Not sure how significant that is - they've also done seat predictions - a mere 82% for Labour in East Ham but it's bleak reading if you're a Tory and frustrating if you're a Lib Dem with any number of near misses.
The headline VI is a 20-point Labour lead (44-24) with the LDs on 12, Greens on 8, Reform 6 and SNP 4.
Beyond that, the tables aren't of much value - the weighted sample is much smaller than the unweighted. There is a sense in the numbers the Conservative vote in London is more resilient than in other parts of the country - whether this is down to Uxbridge or was a factor in the retention of Uxbridge I don't know but it's noticeable the core Conservative vote in London is more solid than elsewhere.
Among the three age groups which the Conservatives won last time - among those aged 45-54, a Conservative lead of 18 is now a Labour lead of 22 so a 20% swing. Among those aged 55-64, a 22 point Conservative lead is now a 3 point Labour lead so just a 12.5% swing. Among those aged 65+ a 47 point Conservative advantage has been reduced to 22 so again a 12.5% swing.
Among those aged 35-44, a 3-point Labour lead has become a 44-point gap so a 20.5% swing.
Thus can we begin to see the strength of the anti-Conservative swing among younger voters and a more modest but still noticeable swing among older voters.
On London, I do wonder whether having a leader of Indian heritage is helping the Tories' core vote to hold up? There's a bit of evidence the same may be true of Leicester, for example. Elsewhere, of course, there could be a negative effect. Just a thought.
I agree about the positive effect in London, Leicester, etc, but not about the negative one elsewhere.
I can’t seem to find it now, but I tracked down a robust study into voting habits by religion a while back.
The ‘Hindu vote’, as far as you can generalise about a group that way, tends to skew a bit to Labour on the whole.
@HYUFD maintains that this was a significant factor in the Uxbridge win - personally I’m less convinced but I guess you can’t rule it out.
The Tories also won Harrow council in 2022 when Rishi was Chancellor and made gains in Leicester this year with Rishi PM unlike barely any other council area.
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
The fact that vegan food can be presented in an exciting way, and taste delicious, has never been in dispute (at least not by me). What I take issue with is the promotion of veganism as a healthy alternative diet. It simply isn't - it takes a lot of effort to maintain health on it, and necessitates artificial supplementation or artificially fortified foods. I don't see a difference between the promotion of veganism and the promotion of junk food - they are both driven by agribusiness/food processors looking to make a buck from the credulous.
I put on about 3stones while I was vegan.
Vegan pasties - just say 'no', kids.
I think the fats used (in place of butter and meat derived fats) aren't great. Coconut oil is a wonderful vegan fat to cook with, but how much of that finds its way into processed vegan food?
Coconut oil isn't great, but it's cheap so you'll find a lot of that in processed food. Ditto palm oil. You'll find unhealthy vegetable processd fats in most "non vegan" processed food as plants are far cheaper to grow than dairy cattle. All food now is about extracting the most profit from as little ingredient cost as possible, resulting in ultra processed foods making up more than half the daily calories in both the UK and US populations.
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
The fact that vegan food can be presented in an exciting way, and taste delicious, has never been in dispute (at least not by me). What I take issue with is the promotion of veganism as a healthy alternative diet. It simply isn't - it takes a lot of effort to maintain health on it, and necessitates artificial supplementation or artificially fortified foods. I don't see a difference between the promotion of veganism and the promotion of junk food - they are both driven by agribusiness/food processors looking to make a buck from the credulous.
There is no doubt that to eat a healthy vegan diet takes time and planning, and is expensive-buying fresh produce and making a meal from it costs more in time and money than an Aldi ready made lasagne does. I'd still argue that my vegan lasagne is healthier and more nutritious than the Aldi one.
Finally had a chance to look at the data tables for the Find Out Now poll.
They've done a kind of sub polling on the 120 safest Conservative seats and then on the next 120 or if you like the "Inner Blue Core" and the "Outer Blue Core".
Not sure how significant that is - they've also done seat predictions - a mere 82% for Labour in East Ham but it's bleak reading if you're a Tory and frustrating if you're a Lib Dem with any number of near misses.
The headline VI is a 20-point Labour lead (44-24) with the LDs on 12, Greens on 8, Reform 6 and SNP 4.
Beyond that, the tables aren't of much value - the weighted sample is much smaller than the unweighted. There is a sense in the numbers the Conservative vote in London is more resilient than in other parts of the country - whether this is down to Uxbridge or was a factor in the retention of Uxbridge I don't know but it's noticeable the core Conservative vote in London is more solid than elsewhere.
Among the three age groups which the Conservatives won last time - among those aged 45-54, a Conservative lead of 18 is now a Labour lead of 22 so a 20% swing. Among those aged 55-64, a 22 point Conservative lead is now a 3 point Labour lead so just a 12.5% swing. Among those aged 65+ a 47 point Conservative advantage has been reduced to 22 so again a 12.5% swing.
Among those aged 35-44, a 3-point Labour lead has become a 44-point gap so a 20.5% swing.
Thus can we begin to see the strength of the anti-Conservative swing among younger voters and a more modest but still noticeable swing among older voters.
On London, I do wonder whether having a leader of Indian heritage is helping the Tories' core vote to hold up? There's a bit of evidence the same may be true of Leicester, for example. Elsewhere, of course, there could be a negative effect. Just a thought.
I agree about the positive effect in London, Leicester, etc, but not about the negative one elsewhere.
I can’t seem to find it now, but I tracked down a robust study into voting habits by religion a while back.
The ‘Hindu vote’, as far as you can generalise about a group that way, tends to skew a bit to Labour on the whole.
@HYUFD maintains that this was a significant factor in the Uxbridge win - personally I’m less convinced but I guess you can’t rule it out.
I think it has changed a bit since Sunak has taken over. His friendliness with Modi's Hindu nationalism plays well in some quarters. Less so in others. Sikhs and secular Indians are often repulsed, but it is a genuine phenomenon.
Well, I was born in India, but I for one certainly won't be voting Tory at the GE.
The basic problem with the Conservatives is the Rwanda policy is a gimmick. The intention was obviously to just let the lefty lawyers and Euro judges block it and then blame them, with the solution being Brexit round 2, leave the ECHR. The flaw in the plan however is that the actual policy itself, sending people to Rwanda rather than back to France, is morally indefensible.
I'm sure that this will seem a rather pitiful thing to celebrate to some of the more affluent, but I've just checked my payslip for Friday and my pre-tax pay for the week is over a grand (£1,085) for the first time
Some of it seems to be overtime from the week before, but that was a good week too which makes it just under £1,950 for the fortnight
I have been working quite crazy hours, and have only had two days off in the last three weeks, but that's not bad money for being a postie
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
The fact that vegan food can be presented in an exciting way, and taste delicious, has never been in dispute (at least not by me). What I take issue with is the promotion of veganism as a healthy alternative diet. It simply isn't - it takes a lot of effort to maintain health on it, and necessitates artificial supplementation or artificially fortified foods. I don't see a difference between the promotion of veganism and the promotion of junk food - they are both driven by agribusiness/food processors looking to make a buck from the credulous.
I put on about 3stones while I was vegan.
Vegan pasties - just say 'no', kids.
I think the fats used (in place of butter and meat derived fats) aren't great. Coconut oil is a wonderful vegan fat to cook with, but how much of that finds its way into processed vegan food?
Coconut oil isn't great, but it's cheap so you'll find a lot of that in processed food. Ditto palm oil. You'll find unhealthy vegetable processd fats in most "non vegan" processed food as plants are far cheaper to grow than dairy cattle. All food now is about extracting the most profit from as little ingredient cost as possible, resulting in ultra processed foods making up more than half the daily calories in both the UK and US populations.
Mum's been using sunflower oil in her cooking for yonks.
Finally had a chance to look at the data tables for the Find Out Now poll.
They've done a kind of sub polling on the 120 safest Conservative seats and then on the next 120 or if you like the "Inner Blue Core" and the "Outer Blue Core".
Not sure how significant that is - they've also done seat predictions - a mere 82% for Labour in East Ham but it's bleak reading if you're a Tory and frustrating if you're a Lib Dem with any number of near misses.
The headline VI is a 20-point Labour lead (44-24) with the LDs on 12, Greens on 8, Reform 6 and SNP 4.
Beyond that, the tables aren't of much value - the weighted sample is much smaller than the unweighted. There is a sense in the numbers the Conservative vote in London is more resilient than in other parts of the country - whether this is down to Uxbridge or was a factor in the retention of Uxbridge I don't know but it's noticeable the core Conservative vote in London is more solid than elsewhere.
Among the three age groups which the Conservatives won last time - among those aged 45-54, a Conservative lead of 18 is now a Labour lead of 22 so a 20% swing. Among those aged 55-64, a 22 point Conservative lead is now a 3 point Labour lead so just a 12.5% swing. Among those aged 65+ a 47 point Conservative advantage has been reduced to 22 so again a 12.5% swing.
Among those aged 35-44, a 3-point Labour lead has become a 44-point gap so a 20.5% swing.
Thus can we begin to see the strength of the anti-Conservative swing among younger voters and a more modest but still noticeable swing among older voters.
On London, I do wonder whether having a leader of Indian heritage is helping the Tories' core vote to hold up? There's a bit of evidence the same may be true of Leicester, for example. Elsewhere, of course, there could be a negative effect. Just a thought.
My head canon says that the Reform figures are inflated by those Conservatives who are racist and don't want to admit to it to pollsters. Which makes me wonder what they will do at a GE?
I think there is an element of that. The Refuk poll share went up when Sunak became PM.
Mostly do it is explained by this, as indeed to a lesser extent is the Green share:
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
The fact that vegan food can be presented in an exciting way, and taste delicious, has never been in dispute (at least not by me). What I take issue with is the promotion of veganism as a healthy alternative diet. It simply isn't - it takes a lot of effort to maintain health on it, and necessitates artificial supplementation or artificially fortified foods. I don't see a difference between the promotion of veganism and the promotion of junk food - they are both driven by agribusiness/food processors looking to make a buck from the credulous.
There is no doubt that to eat a healthy vegan diet takes time and planning, and is expensive-buying fresh produce and making a meal from it costs more in time and money than an Aldi ready made lasagne does. I'd still argue that my vegan lasagne is healthier and more nutritious than the Aldi one.
I had a corned beef lasagne last week. No.
I used to love corned beef. Never tried it in lasagne. Maybe a tad too salty?
Meat you can get whole cuts of unprocessed meat. Whereas you largely get processed crap for the alternative, which is nowhere near as healthy and not something we should wish upon our worst enemy.
While that might be true for an Asda own brand vegan burger, an Impossible burger contains 19g of protein, while there are 18g in a Beyond burger.
Also it’s a bean burger, not a pretend-meat burger! And if you think the beefburger *isn't* processed… well, ignorance is bliss I guess.
People get very strange very quickly when the consumption of flesh is questioned.
The idea that vegan food is ‘all processed carbs’ is just daft, unless you have an extraordinarily broad definition of ‘processed’ which extends to such processes as ‘picking fruit off a tree’.
It's entirely natural. The whole planet works on the basis of a living food chain.
What do people think consumes their flesh when our time on earth is up?
Little clue: they aren't vegan.
Natural does not equal necessary. It's natural for me to not be able to see clearly 4ft in front of my face, but I like my glasses. It's also natural to piss and shit straight onto the soil, but I'm sure people would get upset if I did that outside of any private compost heap I might decide to keep.
No one is saying that humans cannot get nutrients from meat, just that we can have a diet that doesn't include it.
If you feel that the consumption of meat is morally abhorrent, or just dislike the mass produced nature of a lot of meat now, then you can live a healthy life without eating meat.
Yes this is my position. I know that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy diet without meat as I haven't eaten meat in 35 years and am in great health. I've never tried to force this view on anyone else and as far as I can see on this forum the greatest proselytisers are from the eating dead animals camp. I do wish they would fuck off as I believe the government likes to put it.
I've never tried to make someone eat meat.
I've definitely had vegans and vegetarians try and make me eat their diet at events, either directly or through moral blackmail, or use their diet to exercise control in social situations. At a macro level there's a strong movement to tax or regulate me out of meat too.
So I wish they would fuck off, actually.
I've seen people - usually old fogies - insist on trying to feed meat to vegetarians or pescetarians even when given ample notice to go for one of their other perfectlyt normal recipes.
Yes, I've been vegetarian ever since I was a teenager (I'm in my 50s now) and my father never accepted it. Whenever I dropped round, he'd offer me a bacon sandwich or suchlike and then act all hurt when I turned it down. I never really understood his determination to make me eat meat when I was obviously doing fine without it.
I cook a lot and have people around if someone is a vegetarian/vegan I have always made a main dish for them that is vegatarian/vegan....what I won't do is make the whole main dish vegetarian/vegan. The rest of us will be eating meat
I'm the opposite. Rabid meat eater. But if I'm giving a dinner party and there is a veggie there I will give everyone veggie food. Gives me a chance to show off my creativity although warning: putting (delicious) open cap mushrooms in things turns everything grey. I think it's rude to give people different things effectively singling them out for their dietary choices. I invited them, after all.
If someone wants to make a dietary choice, then that's their choice, but everyone else doesn't have to suffer for it.
My choice is to eat meat, and if I was eating at a vegan household I'd be seriously impressed and pleased if they put the effort in to make a meal suitable to my choices, not feel singled out.
For some reason though most vegans think they should be catered for, but there's no onus on them to return the favour.
As I said I believe it is rude. I have invited the person for dinner and the essence of good manners is not to make someone feel awkward or out of place. Hence everyone gets veggie food. Rolling out a separate dish for them, although I'm sure would be appreciated, is imo bad manners. But then I'm an old fashioned kind of guy.
That is your choice, many though would be offended at not being served because someone is a vegetarian.
Not my friends. If they are offended because they don't get their lamb cutlets because another of my, likely our friends is a veggie then they wouldn't be a friend.
Frankly I would rather cut the veggie out
Again, more of a comment on you and I'm sure your dinner parties are a guinea a minute.
In my experience vegan/vegetarian friends are short term.....pretty much everyone I have had has at some point tried to lecture me about meat means murder and get told to fuck off
QED. People are lining up to bemoan the attitude of people at their dinner parties that they are never going to invite to their dinner parties.
No it means I am happy to invite them, make an effort for them. They don't however get to impose their standards on others.
Doesn't sound like you are talking about a friend. Sounds like you are talking about an imaginary vegan about whom you like to rant. If you are talking about a friend what a nasty attitude you have to your friends.
Ok here is another example. My step brother only likes his roast potato's, parsnips etc. burnt to a crisp. When I have him over for the sunday roast I get the potato's etc out then leave enough for him in the oven to overcook. By your argument I should serve everyone blackened roasties so he is not singled out.
I goto the extra hassle of making a good main dish for a vegetarian/vegan but that is not good enough....no it is there faddy diet and their choice. I catered for it just like I do with my stepbrother. I just refuse to let it impact others
But that is not the same is it. I'm a meat eater but I also love a veggie meal. Most (all) meat eaters do.
I like vegetables, I like meat and they go well together. Cannot remember the last time a meal I had was vegan certainly. Vegetarian when I have a cheese salad is about the closest I get.
I am not a huge fan of pulses and avoid them like the plague because I find them disgusting. Most vegetarian or vegan meals seem replete with them so yes I don't want generally to eat them as I don't like pulses (by which I mean any type of bean, lentils etc).
Macaroni cheese, Cauliflower cheese, vegetable curry. I had a lovely potato and cauliflower curry last night. My wife does a lovely stilton and walnut tart. How about a simple cheese omelette. Other favourites of mine are a fennel casserole or a vegetable crumble. How about beans on toast? Most of us have that sometimes.
There are lots of veggie meals. Vegan I grant you is a challenge.
Macaroni cheese should have bacon in it.
There's few things that aren't improved with bacon though.
Well I'm not going to disagree with that, ever.
Conversely, few things aren't improved with cheese.
Burgers? I am really not a fan of cheese burgers. Oh, and soup, especially if it’s blue cheese which I adore but makes a disgusting soup.
Asparagus and stilton soup is yummy
No it’s not. And one of my favourite meals in my life was in Stratford upon Avon where “desert” was a Stilton you had to scoop out with a spoon. Utterly divine. Best cheese I’ve ever had. Just keep it away from the soup.
NEVER SCOOP STILTON OUT WITH A SPOON DEAR GOD IN HEAVEN.
Cut it horizontally.
This was honestly too runny to cut. It was nearly 30 years ago and I remember the taste even yet.
Stilton too runny to cut? What? Are you sure? I mean I don't want to puncture one of your key memories but I can't see it. You mean they gave you a round or a half a round of stilton and a spoon and it was too runny? Hmm.
It was a whole Stilton with the top cut off and you scooped the inside out of it. Never seen the like again. It didn’t have much similarity to the bits you get cut in even a good cheese shop but it was sensational.
You'd really love Shropshire blue (if you haven't had it) the texture is so smooth, it's amazing. A far more consistent cheese than Stilton.
Dorset Blue Vinny is a great cheese with an interesting history. Made on one farm near Sturminster Newton.
It is rather nice: a wersh, tart version of Stilton, and quite refreshing.
I always try to buy some on my periodic trips to Dorset, preferably with Knobs to eat them with, but the latter seem only to be baked at certain times of the year.
The basic problem with the Conservatives is the Rwanda policy is a gimmick. The intention was obviously to just let the lefty lawyers and Euro judges block it and then blame them, with the solution being Brexit round 2, leave the ECHR. The flaw in the plan however is that the actual policy itself, sending people to Rwanda rather than back to France, is morally indefensible.
France won't accept them nor any other eu country which is why the eu is in talks with tunisia now to add to their agreement with libya to keep migrants out.
UK suggests something similar certain people get all up in arms
Anderson's comments may be a bit uncouth for the upper middle classes but in the redwall where his seat is I expect most voters will agree with his comments that if the asylum seekers don't like the barge accomodation the government gives them, they can go back to France.
I find it quite hard to read comments like this without reading a subtext that the asylum seekers in question are less human than the rest of us.
In part it is that your comment only considers the political implications of the statement, without commenting on whether it is an appropriate way to talk politically about other human beings, as if the only thing worth being considered is the politics of this and its impact on ‘proper’ humans in the red wall.
In part it is an awareness of how degrading and dehumanising language has been used as a political tool in the past, and where it has got us.
It makes me think of Pence and my admiration for him that, in the white heat of the US election, he found his red line and stayed the right side of it.
I wonder where Tory activists’ red lines are on this, or even if they have them.
Meat you can get whole cuts of unprocessed meat. Whereas you largely get processed crap for the alternative, which is nowhere near as healthy and not something we should wish upon our worst enemy.
While that might be true for an Asda own brand vegan burger, an Impossible burger contains 19g of protein, while there are 18g in a Beyond burger.
Also it’s a bean burger, not a pretend-meat burger! And if you think the beefburger *isn't* processed… well, ignorance is bliss I guess.
People get very strange very quickly when the consumption of flesh is questioned.
The idea that vegan food is ‘all processed carbs’ is just daft, unless you have an extraordinarily broad definition of ‘processed’ which extends to such processes as ‘picking fruit off a tree’.
It's entirely natural. The whole planet works on the basis of a living food chain.
What do people think consumes their flesh when our time on earth is up?
Little clue: they aren't vegan.
Natural does not equal necessary. It's natural for me to not be able to see clearly 4ft in front of my face, but I like my glasses. It's also natural to piss and shit straight onto the soil, but I'm sure people would get upset if I did that outside of any private compost heap I might decide to keep.
No one is saying that humans cannot get nutrients from meat, just that we can have a diet that doesn't include it.
If you feel that the consumption of meat is morally abhorrent, or just dislike the mass produced nature of a lot of meat now, then you can live a healthy life without eating meat.
Yes this is my position. I know that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy diet without meat as I haven't eaten meat in 35 years and am in great health. I've never tried to force this view on anyone else and as far as I can see on this forum the greatest proselytisers are from the eating dead animals camp. I do wish they would fuck off as I believe the government likes to put it.
I've never tried to make someone eat meat.
I've definitely had vegans and vegetarians try and make me eat their diet at events, either directly or through moral blackmail, or use their diet to exercise control in social situations. At a macro level there's a strong movement to tax or regulate me out of meat too.
So I wish they would fuck off, actually.
I've seen people - usually old fogies - insist on trying to feed meat to vegetarians or pescetarians even when given ample notice to go for one of their other perfectlyt normal recipes.
Yes, I've been vegetarian ever since I was a teenager (I'm in my 50s now) and my father never accepted it. Whenever I dropped round, he'd offer me a bacon sandwich or suchlike and then act all hurt when I turned it down. I never really understood his determination to make me eat meat when I was obviously doing fine without it.
I cook a lot and have people around if someone is a vegetarian/vegan I have always made a main dish for them that is vegatarian/vegan....what I won't do is make the whole main dish vegetarian/vegan. The rest of us will be eating meat
I'm the opposite. Rabid meat eater. But if I'm giving a dinner party and there is a veggie there I will give everyone veggie food. Gives me a chance to show off my creativity although warning: putting (delicious) open cap mushrooms in things turns everything grey. I think it's rude to give people different things effectively singling them out for their dietary choices. I invited them, after all.
If someone wants to make a dietary choice, then that's their choice, but everyone else doesn't have to suffer for it.
My choice is to eat meat, and if I was eating at a vegan household I'd be seriously impressed and pleased if they put the effort in to make a meal suitable to my choices, not feel singled out.
For some reason though most vegans think they should be catered for, but there's no onus on them to return the favour.
As I said I believe it is rude. I have invited the person for dinner and the essence of good manners is not to make someone feel awkward or out of place. Hence everyone gets veggie food. Rolling out a separate dish for them, although I'm sure would be appreciated, is imo bad manners. But then I'm an old fashioned kind of guy.
That is your choice, many though would be offended at not being served because someone is a vegetarian.
Not my friends. If they are offended because they don't get their lamb cutlets because another of my, likely our friends is a veggie then they wouldn't be a friend.
Frankly I would rather cut the veggie out
Again, more of a comment on you and I'm sure your dinner parties are a guinea a minute.
In my experience vegan/vegetarian friends are short term.....pretty much everyone I have had has at some point tried to lecture me about meat means murder and get told to fuck off
QED. People are lining up to bemoan the attitude of people at their dinner parties that they are never going to invite to their dinner parties.
No it means I am happy to invite them, make an effort for them. They don't however get to impose their standards on others.
Doesn't sound like you are talking about a friend. Sounds like you are talking about an imaginary vegan about whom you like to rant. If you are talking about a friend what a nasty attitude you have to your friends.
Ok here is another example. My step brother only likes his roast potato's, parsnips etc. burnt to a crisp. When I have him over for the sunday roast I get the potato's etc out then leave enough for him in the oven to overcook. By your argument I should serve everyone blackened roasties so he is not singled out.
I goto the extra hassle of making a good main dish for a vegetarian/vegan but that is not good enough....no it is there faddy diet and their choice. I catered for it just like I do with my stepbrother. I just refuse to let it impact others
But that is not the same is it. I'm a meat eater but I also love a veggie meal. Most (all) meat eaters do.
I like vegetables, I like meat and they go well together. Cannot remember the last time a meal I had was vegan certainly. Vegetarian when I have a cheese salad is about the closest I get.
I am not a huge fan of pulses and avoid them like the plague because I find them disgusting. Most vegetarian or vegan meals seem replete with them so yes I don't want generally to eat them as I don't like pulses (by which I mean any type of bean, lentils etc).
Macaroni cheese, Cauliflower cheese, vegetable curry. I had a lovely potato and cauliflower curry last night. My wife does a lovely stilton and walnut tart. How about a simple cheese omelette. Other favourites of mine are a fennel casserole or a vegetable crumble. How about beans on toast? Most of us have that sometimes.
There are lots of veggie meals. Vegan I grant you is a challenge.
Macaroni cheese should have bacon in it.
There's few things that aren't improved with bacon though.
Well I'm not going to disagree with that, ever.
Conversely, few things aren't improved with cheese.
Burgers? I am really not a fan of cheese burgers. Oh, and soup, especially if it’s blue cheese which I adore but makes a disgusting soup.
Asparagus and stilton soup is yummy
No it’s not. And one of my favourite meals in my life was in Stratford upon Avon where “desert” was a Stilton you had to scoop out with a spoon. Utterly divine. Best cheese I’ve ever had. Just keep it away from the soup.
NEVER SCOOP STILTON OUT WITH A SPOON DEAR GOD IN HEAVEN.
Cut it horizontally.
This was honestly too runny to cut. It was nearly 30 years ago and I remember the taste even yet.
Stilton too runny to cut? What? Are you sure? I mean I don't want to puncture one of your key memories but I can't see it. You mean they gave you a round or a half a round of stilton and a spoon and it was too runny? Hmm.
It was a whole Stilton with the top cut off and you scooped the inside out of it. Never seen the like again. It didn’t have much similarity to the bits you get cut in even a good cheese shop but it was sensational.
You'd really love Shropshire blue (if you haven't had it) the texture is so smooth, it's amazing. A far more consistent cheese than Stilton.
Dorset Blue Vinny is a great cheese with an interesting history. Made on one farm near Sturminster Newton.
It is rather nice: a wersh, tart version of Stilton, and quite refreshing.
I always try to buy some on my periodic trips to Dorset, preferably with Knobs to eat them with, but the latter seem only to be baked at certain times of the year.
I've got to say that vegan cheese ain't the best. There's a few small makers (some good ones in Scotland) making a half decent attempt, but supermarket vegan cheese is mostly grim!
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
The fact that vegan food can be presented in an exciting way, and taste delicious, has never been in dispute (at least not by me). What I take issue with is the promotion of veganism as a healthy alternative diet. It simply isn't - it takes a lot of effort to maintain health on it, and necessitates artificial supplementation or artificially fortified foods. I don't see a difference between the promotion of veganism and the promotion of junk food - they are both driven by agribusiness/food processors looking to make a buck from the credulous.
I put on about 3stones while I was vegan.
Vegan pasties - just say 'no', kids.
I think the fats used (in place of butter and meat derived fats) aren't great. Coconut oil is a wonderful vegan fat to cook with, but how much of that finds its way into processed vegan food?
Coconut oil isn't great, but it's cheap so you'll find a lot of that in processed food. Ditto palm oil. You'll find unhealthy vegetable processd fats in most "non vegan" processed food as plants are far cheaper to grow than dairy cattle. All food now is about extracting the most profit from as little ingredient cost as possible, resulting in ultra processed foods making up more than half the daily calories in both the UK and US populations.
Love cooking in butter myself. Chicken fat, duck fat, lard or dripping from the previous Sunday’s roast also serve as cooking standbys for at least the first 3 days of the week. I don’t cook with lamb fat though.
Two thoughts: First, it seems nearly certain to me that, given our genetic variations, the "best" diets will be different for different ages, different people, and different groups. (By best, I mean the ones that let us live the longest, healthiest lives.) Incidentally, that may be a good problem for the AI folks to look at.
Second, as travel (and food) writer Calvin Trillin has observed, comfort food for most of us is what we ate when we were young -- which varies. And so, parcels of food from home travel all over the United States, providing sustenance and, more important, comfort. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_Trillin
So we should not expect others to necessarily like the foods we do, for both physical and psychological reasons.
(Full disclosure: I have two of Trillin's books, "American Fried" and "Alice, let's eat", and like both of them. I think almost anyone who wants to write about travel (and food) could learn something from those books, and probably from two or three others by Trillin.)
The basic problem with the Conservatives is the Rwanda policy is a gimmick. The intention was obviously to just let the lefty lawyers and Euro judges block it and then blame them, with the solution being Brexit round 2, leave the ECHR. The flaw in the plan however is that the actual policy itself, sending people to Rwanda rather than back to France, is morally indefensible.
France won't accept them nor any other eu country which is why the eu is in talks with tunisia now to add to their agreement with libya to keep migrants out.
UK suggests something similar certain people get all up in arms
Because we do it in such an infuriatingly, embarrassingly uncouth way.
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
The fact that vegan food can be presented in an exciting way, and taste delicious, has never been in dispute (at least not by me). What I take issue with is the promotion of veganism as a healthy alternative diet. It simply isn't - it takes a lot of effort to maintain health on it, and necessitates artificial supplementation or artificially fortified foods. I don't see a difference between the promotion of veganism and the promotion of junk food - they are both driven by agribusiness/food processors looking to make a buck from the credulous.
I put on about 3stones while I was vegan.
Vegan pasties - just say 'no', kids.
I think the fats used (in place of butter and meat derived fats) aren't great. Coconut oil is a wonderful vegan fat to cook with, but how much of that finds its way into processed vegan food?
Coconut oil isn't great, but it's cheap so you'll find a lot of that in processed food. Ditto palm oil. You'll find unhealthy vegetable processd fats in most "non vegan" processed food as plants are far cheaper to grow than dairy cattle. All food now is about extracting the most profit from as little ingredient cost as possible, resulting in ultra processed foods making up more than half the daily calories in both the UK and US populations.
You're mistaken. Coconut oil is a great fat - highly heat stable, with antibacterial and antioxidant properties, rich in vitamin E. Palm oil has quite a good profile too, but it's more problematical due to green issues concerning its cultivation. I am a lot more concerned about sunflower oil and other cheap polyunsaturated fats.
Finally had a chance to look at the data tables for the Find Out Now poll.
They've done a kind of sub polling on the 120 safest Conservative seats and then on the next 120 or if you like the "Inner Blue Core" and the "Outer Blue Core".
Not sure how significant that is - they've also done seat predictions - a mere 82% for Labour in East Ham but it's bleak reading if you're a Tory and frustrating if you're a Lib Dem with any number of near misses.
The headline VI is a 20-point Labour lead (44-24) with the LDs on 12, Greens on 8, Reform 6 and SNP 4.
Beyond that, the tables aren't of much value - the weighted sample is much smaller than the unweighted. There is a sense in the numbers the Conservative vote in London is more resilient than in other parts of the country - whether this is down to Uxbridge or was a factor in the retention of Uxbridge I don't know but it's noticeable the core Conservative vote in London is more solid than elsewhere.
Among the three age groups which the Conservatives won last time - among those aged 45-54, a Conservative lead of 18 is now a Labour lead of 22 so a 20% swing. Among those aged 55-64, a 22 point Conservative lead is now a 3 point Labour lead so just a 12.5% swing. Among those aged 65+ a 47 point Conservative advantage has been reduced to 22 so again a 12.5% swing.
Among those aged 35-44, a 3-point Labour lead has become a 44-point gap so a 20.5% swing.
Thus can we begin to see the strength of the anti-Conservative swing among younger voters and a more modest but still noticeable swing among older voters.
On London, I do wonder whether having a leader of Indian heritage is helping the Tories' core vote to hold up? There's a bit of evidence the same may be true of Leicester, for example. Elsewhere, of course, there could be a negative effect. Just a thought.
I agree about the positive effect in London, Leicester, etc, but not about the negative one elsewhere.
I can’t seem to find it now, but I tracked down a robust study into voting habits by religion a while back.
The ‘Hindu vote’, as far as you can generalise about a group that way, tends to skew a bit to Labour on the whole.
@HYUFD maintains that this was a significant factor in the Uxbridge win - personally I’m less convinced but I guess you can’t rule it out.
The Tories also won Harrow council in 2022 when Rishi was Chancellor and made gains in Leicester this year with Rishi PM unlike barely any other council area.
To stretch this a little further, the Conservatives also gained a couple of seats in Brent in a strong Hindu area (Queensbury) while the LDs took three seats in Alperton.
Less evidence of that in Hindu areas in east London (Ilford, East Ham) so perhaps we can infer Sunak's support is more among wealthier Hindus than all Hindus.
Prince William voted the world leader with the highest US favourable rating, he also has a significantly higher US poll rating than President Biden or Trump.
'The Prince of Wales scored favourability with more than 6 in 10 Republicans (65%) and Democrats (63%), whilst The King scored fourth place, still firmly ahead of any American politician, with a favourability rating of 49%.' https://twitter.com/TheRoyalistsUK/status/1689265423894581248?s=20
I'm sure that this will seem a rather pitiful thing to celebrate to some of the more affluent, but I've just checked my payslip for Friday and my pre-tax pay for the week is over a grand (£1,085) for the first time
Some of it seems to be overtime from the week before, but that was a good week too which makes it just under £1,950 for the fortnight
I have been working quite crazy hours, and have only had two days off in the last three weeks, but that's not bad money for being a postie
That is good going, well done. I've done several weeks where I worked 48 hours paid hourly. The tax is a big disincentive. Also you eventually get exhausted.
There's plenty of evidence switching to a diet containing meat was a big factor in the cerebral development of early humanity. There's also evidence a balanced moderate diet containing red meat, white meat, fish and vegetables isn't a bad idea either.
I've eaten some wonderful vegetarian food and I am less of a carnivore than I was - as far as venison is concerned, my brother-in-law in New Zealand is a decent shot and has served us roast venison in his time - he says it's a very lean meat and he uses bacon just to bring some fat to the table.
Venison steaks with a cherry sauce works well I find
Just had a cazoort of wisdom - The PB Cookbook!
My own contribution would be most meager, but gauging from P2's post, and many others, a cookbook filled with PB favorites would have to be above average for the genre.
Finally had a chance to look at the data tables for the Find Out Now poll.
They've done a kind of sub polling on the 120 safest Conservative seats and then on the next 120 or if you like the "Inner Blue Core" and the "Outer Blue Core".
Not sure how significant that is - they've also done seat predictions - a mere 82% for Labour in East Ham but it's bleak reading if you're a Tory and frustrating if you're a Lib Dem with any number of near misses.
The headline VI is a 20-point Labour lead (44-24) with the LDs on 12, Greens on 8, Reform 6 and SNP 4.
Beyond that, the tables aren't of much value - the weighted sample is much smaller than the unweighted. There is a sense in the numbers the Conservative vote in London is more resilient than in other parts of the country - whether this is down to Uxbridge or was a factor in the retention of Uxbridge I don't know but it's noticeable the core Conservative vote in London is more solid than elsewhere.
Among the three age groups which the Conservatives won last time - among those aged 45-54, a Conservative lead of 18 is now a Labour lead of 22 so a 20% swing. Among those aged 55-64, a 22 point Conservative lead is now a 3 point Labour lead so just a 12.5% swing. Among those aged 65+ a 47 point Conservative advantage has been reduced to 22 so again a 12.5% swing.
Among those aged 35-44, a 3-point Labour lead has become a 44-point gap so a 20.5% swing.
Thus can we begin to see the strength of the anti-Conservative swing among younger voters and a more modest but still noticeable swing among older voters.
On London, I do wonder whether having a leader of Indian heritage is helping the Tories' core vote to hold up? There's a bit of evidence the same may be true of Leicester, for example. Elsewhere, of course, there could be a negative effect. Just a thought.
I agree about the positive effect in London, Leicester, etc, but not about the negative one elsewhere.
I can’t seem to find it now, but I tracked down a robust study into voting habits by religion a while back.
The ‘Hindu vote’, as far as you can generalise about a group that way, tends to skew a bit to Labour on the whole.
@HYUFD maintains that this was a significant factor in the Uxbridge win - personally I’m less convinced but I guess you can’t rule it out.
The Tories also won Harrow council in 2022 when Rishi was Chancellor and made gains in Leicester this year with Rishi PM unlike barely any other council area.
Leicester was a bit of a special case in that there was a major Labour rift over Sir Peter Soulsby and his style as elected mayor. There was a major purge of sitting Labour councillors as a result.
I am not sure if it is generaliseable elsewhere.Though may have an effect on Leicester East, where the odious Webbe shows no sign of going.
Finally had a chance to look at the data tables for the Find Out Now poll.
They've done a kind of sub polling on the 120 safest Conservative seats and then on the next 120 or if you like the "Inner Blue Core" and the "Outer Blue Core".
Not sure how significant that is - they've also done seat predictions - a mere 82% for Labour in East Ham but it's bleak reading if you're a Tory and frustrating if you're a Lib Dem with any number of near misses.
The headline VI is a 20-point Labour lead (44-24) with the LDs on 12, Greens on 8, Reform 6 and SNP 4.
Beyond that, the tables aren't of much value - the weighted sample is much smaller than the unweighted. There is a sense in the numbers the Conservative vote in London is more resilient than in other parts of the country - whether this is down to Uxbridge or was a factor in the retention of Uxbridge I don't know but it's noticeable the core Conservative vote in London is more solid than elsewhere.
Among the three age groups which the Conservatives won last time - among those aged 45-54, a Conservative lead of 18 is now a Labour lead of 22 so a 20% swing. Among those aged 55-64, a 22 point Conservative lead is now a 3 point Labour lead so just a 12.5% swing. Among those aged 65+ a 47 point Conservative advantage has been reduced to 22 so again a 12.5% swing.
Among those aged 35-44, a 3-point Labour lead has become a 44-point gap so a 20.5% swing.
Thus can we begin to see the strength of the anti-Conservative swing among younger voters and a more modest but still noticeable swing among older voters.
On London, I do wonder whether having a leader of Indian heritage is helping the Tories' core vote to hold up? There's a bit of evidence the same may be true of Leicester, for example. Elsewhere, of course, there could be a negative effect. Just a thought.
My head canon says that the Reform figures are inflated by those Conservatives who are racist and don't want to admit to it to pollsters. Which makes me wonder what they will do at a GE?
The Anderson messaging is intended to bring them home, I'd say.
Prince William voted the world leader with the highest US favourable rating, he also has a significantly higher US poll rating than President Biden or Trump.
'The Prince of Wales scored favourability with more than 6 in 10 Republicans (65%) and Democrats (63%), whilst The King scored fourth place, still firmly ahead of any American politician, with a favourability rating of 49%.' https://twitter.com/TheRoyalistsUK/status/1689265423894581248?s=20
I'm sure that this will seem a rather pitiful thing to celebrate to some of the more affluent, but I've just checked my payslip for Friday and my pre-tax pay for the week is over a grand (£1,085) for the first time
Some of it seems to be overtime from the week before, but that was a good week too which makes it just under £1,950 for the fortnight
I have been working quite crazy hours, and have only had two days off in the last three weeks, but that's not bad money for being a postie
That is good going, well done. I've done several weeks where I worked 48 hours paid hourly. The tax is a big disincentive. Also you eventually get exhausted.
Pah! I have worked more than 48 hours per week my entire career, admittedly in a less physical job than a postie.
Anderson's comments may be a bit uncouth for the upper middle classes but in the redwall where his seat is I expect most voters will agree with his comments that if the asylum seekers don't like the barge accomodation the government gives them, they can go back to France.
I find it quite hard to read comments like this without reading a subtext that the asylum seekers in question are less human than the rest of us.
In part it is that your comment only considers the political implications of the statement, without commenting on whether it is an appropriate way to talk politically about other human beings, as if the only thing worth being considered is the politics of this and its impact on ‘proper’ humans in the red wall.
In part it is an awareness of how degrading and dehumanising language has been used as a political tool in the past, and where it has got us.
It makes me think of Pence and my admiration for him that, in the white heat of the US election, he found his red line and stayed the right side of it.
I wonder where Tory activists’ red lines are on this, or even if they have them.
As far as I can see Anderson didn't make any comments about asylum seekers, only that if they didn't like the accomodation provided, which would be better for those genuine asylum seekers fleeing persecution than what they came from even if not for non genuine ones, then they could leave
A political party is a collection and assemblage of individuals who share a set of beliefs and principles and policy views about the United States of America. Today, there is no such shared set of beliefs and values and principles or even policy views as within the Republican party for America. Donald Trump, he said, was a danger “more so today” than last year, when Luttig testified to the House January 6 committee.
A respected conservative judge who was considered for the supreme court under George W Bush, Luttig made a tremendous impact with his January 6 testimony.
Speaking on primetime television, Luttig said:
I believe that had Vice-President Pence obeyed the orders from his president … and declared Donald Trump the next president of the United States … [he] would have plunged America into what I believe would have been tantamount to a revolution, within a constitutional crisis. On Wednesday, Luttig also told CNN he did not think Trump could avoid conviction for election subversion.
“The evidence is overwhelming that the former president knew full well that he had lost the election,” he said.
There's plenty of evidence switching to a diet containing meat was a big factor in the cerebral development of early humanity. There's also evidence a balanced moderate diet containing red meat, white meat, fish and vegetables isn't a bad idea either.
I've eaten some wonderful vegetarian food and I am less of a carnivore than I was - as far as venison is concerned, my brother-in-law in New Zealand is a decent shot and has served us roast venison in his time - he says it's a very lean meat and he uses bacon just to bring some fat to the table.
Venison steaks with a cherry sauce works well I find
Just had a cazoort of wisdom - The PB Cookbook!
My own contribution would be most meager, but gauging from P2's post, and many others, a cookbook filled with PB favorites would have to be above average for the genre.
Not sure my pork pie and cold beans meal will play in Peoria!
Anderson's comments may be a bit uncouth for the upper middle classes but in the redwall where his seat is I expect most voters will agree with his comments that if the asylum seekers don't like the barge accomodation the government gives them, they can go back to France.
I find it quite hard to read comments like this without reading a subtext that the asylum seekers in question are less human than the rest of us.
In part it is that your comment only considers the political implications of the statement, without commenting on whether it is an appropriate way to talk politically about other human beings, as if the only thing worth being considered is the politics of this and its impact on ‘proper’ humans in the red wall.
In part it is an awareness of how degrading and dehumanising language has been used as a political tool in the past, and where it has got us.
It makes me think of Pence and my admiration for him that, in the white heat of the US election, he found his red line and stayed the right side of it.
I wonder where Tory activists’ red lines are on this, or even if they have them.
As far as I can see Anderson didn't make any comments about asylum seekers, only that if they didn't like the accomodation provided, which would be better for those genuine asylum seekers fleeing persecution than what they came from even if not for non genuine ones, then they could leave
"go home" not have any resonances for you? Oh no, perish the thought.
Two thoughts: First, it seems nearly certain to me that, given our genetic variations, the "best" diets will be different for different ages, different people, and different groups. (By best, I mean the ones that let us live the longest, healthiest lives.) Incidentally, that may be a good problem for the AI folks to look at.
Second, as travel (and food) writer Calvin Trillin has observed, comfort food for most of us is what we ate when we were young -- which varies. And so, parcels of food from home travel all over the United States, providing sustenance and, more important, comfort. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_Trillin
So we should not expect others to necessarily like the foods we do, for both physical and psychological reasons.
(Full disclosure: I have two of Trillin's books, "American Fried" and "Alice, let's eat", and like both of them. I think almost anyone who wants to write about travel (and food) could learn something from those books, and probably from two or three others by Trillin.)
I worked for three months near Denver, Colorado back in 2011, and was actually pleasantly surprised at the number and variety of restaurants and diners selling decent vegetarian food.
The basic problem with the Conservatives is the Rwanda policy is a gimmick. The intention was obviously to just let the lefty lawyers and Euro judges block it and then blame them, with the solution being Brexit round 2, leave the ECHR. The flaw in the plan however is that the actual policy itself, sending people to Rwanda rather than back to France, is morally indefensible.
France won't accept them nor any other eu country which is why the eu is in talks with tunisia now to add to their agreement with libya to keep migrants out.
UK suggests something similar certain people get all up in arms
The EU policy is to stop the boats, just like the UK policy. But surely it is clear that it is different sending them back to where they set off, to flying them out against their will to the middle of Africa with no route to claim asylum in the UK.
Me and the Mrs Had lunch in the Mad Cucumber vegan lounge in Bournemouth yesterday. Top notch scran. Aubergine fried in spiced breadcrumbs, vegetable Katsu curry, sticky jasmine rice. Chocolate and raspberry tarte and an oreo milk shake, the wife had a sticky tofu stir fry and Victoria sponge for afters. All made from scratch in the kitchen. Clearly I don't eat the type of vegan food most of PB think all vegans eat. For the record, none of the vegans I know eat meat substitutes regularly, usually only if you're out and that's all you can find on a menu. I did have a bit of diced up beyond meat sausage in some loaded fries I bought from a van on the beach a couple of nights ago, though!
The fact that vegan food can be presented in an exciting way, and taste delicious, has never been in dispute (at least not by me). What I take issue with is the promotion of veganism as a healthy alternative diet. It simply isn't - it takes a lot of effort to maintain health on it, and necessitates artificial supplementation or artificially fortified foods. I don't see a difference between the promotion of veganism and the promotion of junk food - they are both driven by agribusiness/food processors looking to make a buck from the credulous.
I put on about 3stones while I was vegan.
Vegan pasties - just say 'no', kids.
I think the fats used (in place of butter and meat derived fats) aren't great. Coconut oil is a wonderful vegan fat to cook with, but how much of that finds its way into processed vegan food?
Coconut oil isn't great, but it's cheap so you'll find a lot of that in processed food. Ditto palm oil. You'll find unhealthy vegetable processd fats in most "non vegan" processed food as plants are far cheaper to grow than dairy cattle. All food now is about extracting the most profit from as little ingredient cost as possible, resulting in ultra processed foods making up more than half the daily calories in both the UK and US populations.
You're mistaken. Coconut oil is a great fat - highly heat stable, with antibacterial and antioxidant properties, rich in vitamin E. Palm oil has quite a good profile too, but it's more problematical due to green issues concerning its cultivation. I am a lot more concerned about sunflower oil and other cheap polyunsaturated fats.
It's not healthy to cook with regularly. It's about a third higher in unsaturated fat than butter. It was touted as a miracle fat by celebrities about 5 years ago, but current research debunks most of the alleged benefits of it.
Prince William voted the world leader with the highest US favourable rating, he also has a significantly higher US poll rating than President Biden or Trump.
'The Prince of Wales scored favourability with more than 6 in 10 Republicans (65%) and Democrats (63%), whilst The King scored fourth place, still firmly ahead of any American politician, with a favourability rating of 49%.' https://twitter.com/TheRoyalistsUK/status/1689265423894581248?s=20
He's not a World Leader. He leads fuck all, probably isn't even the boss in his own bedroom!
Two thoughts: First, it seems nearly certain to me that, given our genetic variations, the "best" diets will be different for different ages, different people, and different groups. (By best, I mean the ones that let us live the longest, healthiest lives.) Incidentally, that may be a good problem for the AI folks to look at.
Second, as travel (and food) writer Calvin Trillin has observed, comfort food for most of us is what we ate when we were young -- which varies. And so, parcels of food from home travel all over the United States, providing sustenance and, more important, comfort. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_Trillin
So we should not expect others to necessarily like the foods we do, for both physical and psychological reasons.
(Full disclosure: I have two of Trillin's books, "American Fried" and "Alice, let's eat", and like both of them. I think almost anyone who wants to write about travel (and food) could learn something from those books, and probably from two or three others by Trillin.)
I worked for three months near Denver, Colorado back in 2011, and was actually pleasantly surprised at the number and variety of restaurants and diners selling decent vegetarian food.
I was in Hamberg recently and lots of decent Vegan restaurants. They were unknown when I was there 3 decades ago.
Comments
https://twitter.com/tjmoore/status/1688313499024285696
Locally listed pub, bought by developers that had council leader and chief exec as directors. The very same that put Woking Council into £2.6bn debt. Shortly after, pub burns down. "kids" accused, no charges due to insufficient evidence.
The site has, thankfully, not been built on yet.
"A study of more than 218,000 adults from over 50 countries around the world suggests that consuming unprocessed meat regularly can reduce the risk of early death and can increase human longevity.73 A recent dietary advice published by Lancet Public Health advocates an increase of dietary meat in order to benefit our heart health and longevity.74 This study also highlights that saturated fat in meat may be cardio protective, as well as, that meat contains many vitamins and the essential amino acids for human health and well-being.73,74"
source
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8881926/
lancet public health advocates an increase in dietary meat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning
They've done a kind of sub polling on the 120 safest Conservative seats and then on the next 120 or if you like the "Inner Blue Core" and the "Outer Blue Core".
Not sure how significant that is - they've also done seat predictions - a mere 82% for Labour in East Ham but it's bleak reading if you're a Tory and frustrating if you're a Lib Dem with any number of near misses.
The headline VI is a 20-point Labour lead (44-24) with the LDs on 12, Greens on 8, Reform 6 and SNP 4.
Beyond that, the tables aren't of much value - the weighted sample is much smaller than the unweighted. There is a sense in the numbers the Conservative vote in London is more resilient than in other parts of the country - whether this is down to Uxbridge or was a factor in the retention of Uxbridge I don't know but it's noticeable the core Conservative vote in London is more solid than elsewhere.
Among the three age groups which the Conservatives won last time - among those aged 45-54, a Conservative lead of 18 is now a Labour lead of 22 so a 20% swing. Among those aged 55-64, a 22 point Conservative lead is now a 3 point Labour lead so just a 12.5% swing. Among those aged 65+ a 47 point Conservative advantage has been reduced to 22 so again a 12.5% swing.
Among those aged 35-44, a 3-point Labour lead has become a 44-point gap so a 20.5% swing.
Thus can we begin to see the strength of the anti-Conservative swing among younger voters and a more modest but still noticeable swing among older voters.
Ah okay sorry, I see what you mean. And can see that as a unionist your electoral calculations are that much more complicated.
Though your point about Braverman surely still reinforces what TKC is saying, no? If someone l can stomach her and still tick the blue box, is Anderson any worse?
https://qz.com/91123/vegetarians-live-longer-but-its-not-because-they-dont-eat-meat
and, more positively:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/do-vegans-live-longer#effects-on-lifespan
https://www.dorsetblue.com/dorset-blue-vinny
There's a large Indian (mainly from the south) population in my part of London (East Ham) and I'm pushed to see a big difference so far. To be fair, the Hindu Conservative candidate at the recent Wall End by-election did okay while the Conservative vote in the more Muslim Boleyn Ward collapsed.
Hopefully we'll see more detailed polling on this nearer the GE - it's a theory that's been advanced and I certainly wouldn't discount it.
Other thing to ask is increased longetivity is that actually a good thing. If most for example get some level of dementia in their low 80's whats the advantage of living to your mid 90's just gives you extended time in adult diapers
Talking of human evolution. Nile crocs are sensitive to sound of crying human babies. Lovely Circle-of-Life explanation, maternal instinct gonna instinc even across taxonomic classes. Less lovely explanation, That sounds edible.
Vegan pasties - just say 'no', kids.
I've had a couple of weeks off the wagon. A couple of times in Texas the buffet options were meat, meat, meat or nowt.
Quote
The longer answer
As the Oreo FAQ page states, while Oreos are indeed veggie-friendly, they are not strictly vegan as ‘Oreo have milk as cross-contact and therefore they are not suitable for vegans’.
source https://allplants.com/blog/lifestyle/are-oreos-vegan
That is a large part of why we have an obesity, and diabetes problem in this country.
https://www.georgemewescheese.co.uk/product/basajo/
https://www.georgemewescheese.co.uk/product/picos-de-europa/
Perhaps Mike might explain why he didn't use the full quote ?
Now we know that France has many of the attributes of a failed state but it is still preferable to the places these refugees come from.
Makes sense to go up Mayfair instead, lol.
Actually on the streets little has happened, but it's interesting how there is a capability to get such headlines, photos, and video clips onto news sites.
There'll be more of this.
I'm not blaming anyone for my greed other than myself. But it did make me even more suspicious of all the 'Plant Based!' advertising drive.
The ‘Hindu vote’, as far as you can generalise about a group that way, tends to skew a bit to Labour on the whole.
@HYUFD maintains that this was a significant factor in the Uxbridge win - personally I’m less convinced but I guess you can’t rule it out.
They'll be pleased. That's the play.
Some of it seems to be overtime from the week before, but that was a good week too which makes it just under £1,950 for the fortnight
I have been working quite crazy hours, and have only had two days off in the last three weeks, but that's not bad money for being a postie
Mostly do it is explained by this, as indeed to a lesser extent is the Green share:
https://sotn.newstatesman.com/2023/07/polls-overstating-support-reform
Let people be judged on the full information.
I always try to buy some on my periodic trips to Dorset, preferably with Knobs to eat them with, but the latter seem only to be baked at certain times of the year.
UK suggests something similar certain people get all up in arms
In part it is that your comment only considers the political implications of the statement, without commenting on whether it is an appropriate way to talk politically about other human beings, as if the only thing worth being considered is the politics of this and its impact on ‘proper’ humans in the red wall.
In part it is an awareness of how degrading and dehumanising language has been used as a political tool in the past, and where it has got us.
It makes me think of Pence and my admiration for him that, in the white heat of the US election, he found his red line and stayed the right side of it.
I wonder where Tory activists’ red lines are on this, or even if they have them.
Second, as travel (and food) writer Calvin Trillin has observed, comfort food for most of us is what we ate when we were young -- which varies. And so, parcels of food from home travel all over the United States, providing sustenance and, more important, comfort.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_Trillin
So we should not expect others to necessarily like the foods we do, for both physical and psychological reasons.
(Full disclosure: I have two of Trillin's books, "American Fried" and "Alice, let's eat", and like both of them. I think almost anyone who wants to write about travel (and food) could learn something from those books, and probably from two or three others by Trillin.)
Less evidence of that in Hindu areas in east London (Ilford, East Ham) so perhaps we can infer Sunak's support is more among wealthier Hindus than all Hindus.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1800396/prince-william-popularity-gallup-poll
'The Prince of Wales scored favourability with more than 6 in 10 Republicans (65%) and Democrats (63%), whilst The King scored fourth place, still firmly ahead of any American politician, with a favourability rating of 49%.'
https://twitter.com/TheRoyalistsUK/status/1689265423894581248?s=20
My own contribution would be most meager, but gauging from P2's post, and many others, a cookbook filled with PB favorites would have to be above average for the genre.
I am not sure if it is generaliseable elsewhere.Though may have an effect on Leicester East, where the odious Webbe shows no sign of going.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2023/aug/09/trump-secret-memo-2020-election-indictments-biden-energy-live-updates
J Michael Luttig told CNN:
A political party is a collection and assemblage of individuals who share a set of beliefs and principles and policy views about the United States of America. Today, there is no such shared set of beliefs and values and principles or even policy views as within the Republican party for America.
Donald Trump, he said, was a danger “more so today” than last year, when Luttig testified to the House January 6 committee.
A respected conservative judge who was considered for the supreme court under George W Bush, Luttig made a tremendous impact with his January 6 testimony.
Speaking on primetime television, Luttig said:
I believe that had Vice-President Pence obeyed the orders from his president … and declared Donald Trump the next president of the United States … [he] would have plunged America into what I believe would have been tantamount to a revolution, within a constitutional crisis.
On Wednesday, Luttig also told CNN he did not think Trump could avoid conviction for election subversion.
“The evidence is overwhelming that the former president knew full well that he had lost the election,” he said.
How many people live in failed countries - certainly tens of millions and very likely hundreds of millions.
How many people live in nasty authoritarian countries - hundreds of millions and if you include China its over a billion.
How many people live in economically backward countries - hundreds of millions, over a billion if you include India.
How many people live in countries threated by natural disaster or climate change - hundreds of millions.
How many more people will all these places have during the next few decades - hundreds of millions.
And how many people migrating from these places does it take to turn a first world country into something else ?
It looks like another example of the anti-abortion extremists over-reaching.
If the GOP had any sense they would have aimed at restricting abortion to around 12-13 weeks.
It's not healthy to cook with regularly. It's about a third higher in unsaturated fat than butter. It was touted as a miracle fat by celebrities about 5 years ago, but current research debunks most of the alleged benefits of it.
Full of quite fruity young frauleins too.