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Now I am become Death, the destroyer of political parties – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,217
edited July 2023 in General
Now I am become Death, the destroyer of political parties – politicalbetting.com

It is worth comparing these net ratings to those from October '22. They have got worse on 9 out of the 10. Interestingly, Labour's ratings have also fallen over this period. pic.twitter.com/pLBeCrIcea

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,975
    Tried my best to do a Barbie themed tread but failed.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937
    2nd like Ken.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,032
    MattW said:

    2nd like Ken.

    What a gent he is.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393

    Tried my best to do a Barbie themed tread but failed.

    You couldn't. You're not a parlour pinko (unless seen through HYUFD's X-ray glasses as sold in the small ads of ConHome Action Man Weekly).
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,774

    Tried my best to do a Barbie themed tread but failed.

    Perhaps it was a step too far

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937
    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    2nd like Ken.

    What a gent he is.
    Just helping out @TSE .


  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    2nd like Ken.

    What a gent he is.
    Just helping out @TSE .


    What's in the little bag? And what is the map for? I'm surprised modern children know what a paper map is.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    edited July 2023
    If Labour were a bit more commonsensical about replacing duds, it's not Sunak I'd be worried about. Kid Starver's inadequacies are more starkly revealed every week. Not looking forward to being governed by him.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    edited July 2023
    FPT: Re the heat in Europe



    Miklosvar said:

    In other news, Rhodes gets evacuated

    Wildfires spreading across the Greek island of Rhodes are leaving thousands of tourists in limbo, wondering where they will spend the night

    Meanwhile, holiday companies are cancelling flights to the island. Jet2 has cancelled flights to Rhodes all next week, while TUI stopped flights there until Wednesday

    EasyJet has cancelled package holidays but is still running flights to the island - as are British Airways, Ryanair, and others

    BA customers who are currently in Rhodes on a flight-only booking can change their flight to come back earlier than planned, free of charge, the airline says.

    And anyone flying to Rhodes with BA over the next week can change their flight to a later date, also free of charge.

    As for the BA flight tomorrow - the airline says it will use a larger plane than normal so that it can pick up as many people as possible in Rhodes who want to return to the UK.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66282605

    Nothing to see here, happens every year

    Throughout that region and most of the Med yes it does happen each year and it is down to chance mainly the type of areas affected. There may be also an issue as to how well the authorities have planned for fire risks. I live on the edge of Europe's only desert in Almeria - we had some bad fires here back in 2009 but very little of significance since. Each year now a lot of preventive measures are taken and they have rapid responses whenever and however a fire starts. Incidentally there are both the naturally occurring ones and often the larger number set by humans ignoring the rules or just being feckless.

    I'm sure the Greek authorities are thrilled that the entire region now faces boycotts and cancellations while the 10 day forecast is for entirely normal summer temperatures.

    https://www.eltiempo.es/rodas.html
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    boulay said:

    Tried my best to do a Barbie themed tread but failed.

    You could have done a Sindy thread.
    Action Person thread on the current Defence Minister's chances of becoming PM.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,149

    Tried my best to do a Barbie themed tread but failed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHaij87Ba-4
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    Take the Tories off the Barbie, they're cooked.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468

    Tried my best to do a Barbie themed tread but failed.

    Was it beyond your ken?
    I know that puns give people the Horn(e)....
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    boulay said:

    Tried my best to do a Barbie themed tread but failed.

    You could have done a Sindy thread.
    Ouch - i'm calling for Barbie and Sindy to slug it out - fight, fight, fight!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468
    Meanwhile, the challenge for Boris / Liz defenders is twofold.

    1 Construct a timeline that doesn't lead to the fall of their champion. Complete personality transplants not allowed.

    2 Construct a timeline where the Conservatives are more popular than they are now.

    I don't think either can plausibly be done.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    felix said:

    FPT: Re the heat in Europe



    Miklosvar said:

    In other news, Rhodes gets evacuated

    Wildfires spreading across the Greek island of Rhodes are leaving thousands of tourists in limbo, wondering where they will spend the night

    Meanwhile, holiday companies are cancelling flights to the island. Jet2 has cancelled flights to Rhodes all next week, while TUI stopped flights there until Wednesday

    EasyJet has cancelled package holidays but is still running flights to the island - as are British Airways, Ryanair, and others

    BA customers who are currently in Rhodes on a flight-only booking can change their flight to come back earlier than planned, free of charge, the airline says.

    And anyone flying to Rhodes with BA over the next week can change their flight to a later date, also free of charge.

    As for the BA flight tomorrow - the airline says it will use a larger plane than normal so that it can pick up as many people as possible in Rhodes who want to return to the UK.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66282605

    Nothing to see here, happens every year

    Throughout that region and most of the Med yes it does happen each year and it is down to chance mainly the type of areas affected. There may be also an issue as to how well the authorities have planned for fire risks. I live on the edge of Europe's only desert in Almeria - we had some bad fires here back in 2009 but very little of significance since. Each year now a lot of preventive measures are taken and they have rapid responses whenever and however a fire starts. Incidentally there are both the naturally occurring ones and often the larger number set by humans ignoring the rules or just being feckless.

    I'm sure the Greek authorities are thrilled that the entire region now faces boycotts and cancellations while the 10 day forecast is for entirely normal summer temperatures.

    https://www.eltiempo.es/rodas.html

    I doubt the daytime meteorological temperature is at the forefront of anyone's mind while the whole island is on fire 24/7.



  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653

    Meanwhile, the challenge for Boris / Liz defenders is twofold.

    1 Construct a timeline that doesn't lead to the fall of their champion. Complete personality transplants not allowed.

    2 Construct a timeline where the Conservatives are more popular than they are now.

    I don't think either can plausibly be done.

    I do think all the leading Western governments would be more popular today without the war and the import price shock. Nothing they could have done about those by 2021, of course.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352

    Meanwhile, the challenge for Boris / Liz defenders is twofold.

    1 Construct a timeline that doesn't lead to the fall of their champion. Complete personality transplants not allowed.

    2 Construct a timeline where the Conservatives are more popular than they are now.

    I don't think either can plausibly be done.

    The sad thing is that many Conservative Party activists and members knew what he was when they elected Johnson, but they did it anyway. It was a Faustian pact that has now led to the Conservative Party's destruction.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,992
    Once again, FPT.

    What have I , What have I, What have I, done to deserve this?

    Afternoon all :)

    The washing out at Stodge Towers, the covers on at Old Trafford. The certainties of an English summer?

    Also among the certainties arguments on a Sunday at Tesco as shoppers with small trollies try to use the self checkout tills and street theatre on the corner as two drivers discuss the finer points of the ULEZ (that seems improbable given the gestures and language on offer).

    As for ULEZ, it's about means and ends - most people wouldn't argue with an end that everyone deserves to breathe cleaner air. The problem is the means - ULEZ is not without merit but the problem, apart from the desperate desire of the Conservatives to find a stick with which to beat Labour, is it looks less like an altruistic measure to improve the quality of London's air than a cash-raising exercise to help Khan and City Hall.

    While recognising the need for stick, there needs to be a lot of carrot - selling ULEZ in Inner London where most people have good access to public transport and where the necessity for a car is debatable is one thing (96% of vehicles were compliant) but selling it in Outer London is a different proposition. Yes, the majority of cars will be compliant but we know diesel ownership is greater and small business (the eponymous white van man) tends often to older particulate pumping diesels.

    There needs to be a base assumption that no one should be financially worse off if they exchange a non-compliant for a compliant vehicle - if they stick with their non-complient vehicle, they'll know what to expect.

    The other aspect is traffic from Outer to Inner London - we already have a congestion charge in place. For many, the journet from Outer to Inner London starts with a drive to a tube or train station and parking up before commuting in to the centre of town - ULEZ is irrelevant currently.

    Taking the ULEZ to Outer London means £12.50 to get to the tube or train station and it also impacts on those in the next ring of the doughnut - car owners in Surrey, Essex and elsewhere who drive into Outer London towns - they suddenly become liable for this charge.

    Why should anyone from Reigate or Harlow fund the London Mayoralty? That doesn't mean nothing can or should be done - the ends are still important. Taking some of the heat out of the issue would be a good step but it's a bone with which the Susan Halls and Lee Andersons can run. Perhaps they don't think or believe air quality is an issue - I've certainly never heard Susan Hall, in a pause among her rantings, advocate any kind of alternative solution.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937
    edited July 2023
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    2nd like Ken.

    What a gent he is.
    Just helping out @TSE .


    What's in the little bag? And what is the map for? I'm surprised modern children know what a paper map is.
    Cheese and onion crisps, because Ken (edited) has a variable orientation and does not want to kiss Barbie today.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,468

    Meanwhile, the challenge for Boris / Liz defenders is twofold.

    1 Construct a timeline that doesn't lead to the fall of their champion. Complete personality transplants not allowed.

    2 Construct a timeline where the Conservatives are more popular than they are now.

    I don't think either can plausibly be done.

    The sad thing is that many Conservative Party activists and members knew what he was when they elected Johnson, but they did it anyway. It was a Faustian pact that has now led to the Conservative Party's destruction.
    The MPs did- or at least they should have done. But until he has personally betrayed you, he is a compelling and convincing liar.

    Tragically, there are loads of examples of people suspending disbelief when it's a bad plan. The bad boy shagger who you want your girly besties to stay away from, but there's no point telling them that.

    It was utterly predictable, but hey- I voted for him in 2008 and 2012.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,869
    edited July 2023

    Meanwhile, the challenge for Boris / Liz defenders is twofold.

    1 Construct a timeline that doesn't lead to the fall of their champion. Complete personality transplants not allowed.

    2 Construct a timeline where the Conservatives are more popular than they are now.

    I don't think either can plausibly be done.

    What's the point? What happened happened. Truss got a lot wrong, but two things critically wrong imo - she let her friendship with Kwarteng persuade her to give him less supervision than necessary, and she badly underestimated the strength and number of the opponents of her policies. It must have been quite surprising the see the American President snarling at her attempt to reinstate the 40% top rate of tax, as if it was any of his f***ing business, but there we were.

    The point now is to look forward. We have a useless PM, with another useless PM in waiting. I see the best situation from here is for the Tories to ditch Sunak and give us an actual election.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all




  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    edited July 2023
    Miklosvar said:

    felix said:

    FPT: Re the heat in Europe



    Miklosvar said:

    In other news, Rhodes gets evacuated

    Wildfires spreading across the Greek island of Rhodes are leaving thousands of tourists in limbo, wondering where they will spend the night

    Meanwhile, holiday companies are cancelling flights to the island. Jet2 has cancelled flights to Rhodes all next week, while TUI stopped flights there until Wednesday

    EasyJet has cancelled package holidays but is still running flights to the island - as are British Airways, Ryanair, and others

    BA customers who are currently in Rhodes on a flight-only booking can change their flight to come back earlier than planned, free of charge, the airline says.

    And anyone flying to Rhodes with BA over the next week can change their flight to a later date, also free of charge.

    As for the BA flight tomorrow - the airline says it will use a larger plane than normal so that it can pick up as many people as possible in Rhodes who want to return to the UK.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66282605

    Nothing to see here, happens every year

    Throughout that region and most of the Med yes it does happen each year and it is down to chance mainly the type of areas affected. There may be also an issue as to how well the authorities have planned for fire risks. I live on the edge of Europe's only desert in Almeria - we had some bad fires here back in 2009 but very little of significance since. Each year now a lot of preventive measures are taken and they have rapid responses whenever and however a fire starts. Incidentally there are both the naturally occurring ones and often the larger number set by humans ignoring the rules or just being feckless.

    I'm sure the Greek authorities are thrilled that the entire region now faces boycotts and cancellations while the 10 day forecast is for entirely normal summer temperatures.

    https://www.eltiempo.es/rodas.html

    I doubt the daytime meteorological temperature is at the forefront of anyone's mind while the whole island is on fire 24/7.



    A quick google suggests parts of the south and south east are affected. Although some holiday flights have been cancelled next week Easyjet have not cancelled any of the regular flights. But thank you for your input corporal Jones
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937
    edited July 2023
    stodge said:

    Once again, FPT.

    What have I , What have I, What have I, done to deserve this?

    Afternoon all :)

    The washing out at Stodge Towers, the covers on at Old Trafford. The certainties of an English summer?

    Also among the certainties arguments on a Sunday at Tesco as shoppers with small trollies try to use the self checkout tills and street theatre on the corner as two drivers discuss the finer points of the ULEZ (that seems improbable given the gestures and language on offer).

    As for ULEZ, it's about means and ends - most people wouldn't argue with an end that everyone deserves to breathe cleaner air. The problem is the means - ULEZ is not without merit but the problem, apart from the desperate desire of the Conservatives to find a stick with which to beat Labour, is it looks less like an altruistic measure to improve the quality of London's air than a cash-raising exercise to help Khan and City Hall.

    While recognising the need for stick, there needs to be a lot of carrot - selling ULEZ in Inner London where most people have good access to public transport and where the necessity for a car is debatable is one thing (96% of vehicles were compliant) but selling it in Outer London is a different proposition. Yes, the majority of cars will be compliant but we know diesel ownership is greater and small business (the eponymous white van man) tends often to older particulate pumping diesels.

    There needs to be a base assumption that no one should be financially worse off if they exchange a non-compliant for a compliant vehicle - if they stick with their non-complient vehicle, they'll know what to expect.

    The other aspect is traffic from Outer to Inner London - we already have a congestion charge in place. For many, the journet from Outer to Inner London starts with a drive to a tube or train station and parking up before commuting in to the centre of town - ULEZ is irrelevant currently.

    Taking the ULEZ to Outer London means £12.50 to get to the tube or train station and it also impacts on those in the next ring of the doughnut - car owners in Surrey, Essex and elsewhere who drive into Outer London towns - they suddenly become liable for this charge.

    Why should anyone from Reigate or Harlow fund the London Mayoralty? That doesn't mean nothing can or should be done - the ends are still important. Taking some of the heat out of the issue would be a good step but it's a bone with which the Susan Halls and Lee Andersons can run. Perhaps they don't think or believe air quality is an issue - I've certainly never heard Susan Hall, in a pause among her rantings, advocate any kind of alternative solution.

    If they are using London services, it perhaps seems reasonable that they should contribute.

    Has Lee Anderson commented?

    In his constituency I think politically he'd be tickling the chin of the motohoon lobby - maybe. But he also has plenty of experience as a single dad living on very little in a horribly congested old terraced housing area with pavements blocked by parkers both sides of the narrow streets.

    What I have mostly spotted from him recently has been about canal boats.

    This morning saw a long-white bearded gent (late 60s?) with a parked up Surron unregistered e-motorbike at the snack shack. Apparently it does 55mph, and he gets a touch touchy if he overhears comparisons with the type of tearaways who killed themselves on one in Cardiff.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,992
    I'm afraid this has been obvious for a while.

    The way in which the Conservative Party has comported itself in Government over the last thirteen years is far and away the factor which will cause their defeat at the next election.

    It's not really Sunak or Truss or Johnson or May or Cameron in and of themselves - it's the Party they lead which has simply become a vehicle to remain in Government, to hold on to "power".

    The other side is what would another term of Conservative Government look like? For all the "ideas" and "true blue" thinking now being bandied about, the truth is they've been in power since May 2010 and the obvious question is why haven't all these wonderful ideas been implemented before now? Why has it taken a Conservative Government more than 13 years to become Conservative?

    As always, there are more questions than answers....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,505
    felix said:

    Miklosvar said:

    felix said:

    FPT: Re the heat in Europe



    Miklosvar said:

    In other news, Rhodes gets evacuated

    Wildfires spreading across the Greek island of Rhodes are leaving thousands of tourists in limbo, wondering where they will spend the night

    Meanwhile, holiday companies are cancelling flights to the island. Jet2 has cancelled flights to Rhodes all next week, while TUI stopped flights there until Wednesday

    EasyJet has cancelled package holidays but is still running flights to the island - as are British Airways, Ryanair, and others

    BA customers who are currently in Rhodes on a flight-only booking can change their flight to come back earlier than planned, free of charge, the airline says.

    And anyone flying to Rhodes with BA over the next week can change their flight to a later date, also free of charge.

    As for the BA flight tomorrow - the airline says it will use a larger plane than normal so that it can pick up as many people as possible in Rhodes who want to return to the UK.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66282605

    Nothing to see here, happens every year

    Throughout that region and most of the Med yes it does happen each year and it is down to chance mainly the type of areas affected. There may be also an issue as to how well the authorities have planned for fire risks. I live on the edge of Europe's only desert in Almeria - we had some bad fires here back in 2009 but very little of significance since. Each year now a lot of preventive measures are taken and they have rapid responses whenever and however a fire starts. Incidentally there are both the naturally occurring ones and often the larger number set by humans ignoring the rules or just being feckless.

    I'm sure the Greek authorities are thrilled that the entire region now faces boycotts and cancellations while the 10 day forecast is for entirely normal summer temperatures.

    https://www.eltiempo.es/rodas.html

    I doubt the daytime meteorological temperature is at the forefront of anyone's mind while the whole island is on fire 24/7.



    A quick google suggests parts of the south and south east are affected. Although some holiday flights have been cancelled next week Easyjet have not cancelled any of the regular flights. But thank you for your input corporal Jones
    Exactly, a few areas are a bit hotter in an El Nino year and all the hysterical fkucwits are wetting their pants. They have forest fires in these places all the time, it is far from unusual. Just given the grifters a good idea for more scamming.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031

    Meanwhile, the challenge for Boris / Liz defenders is twofold.

    1 Construct a timeline that doesn't lead to the fall of their champion. Complete personality transplants not allowed.

    2 Construct a timeline where the Conservatives are more popular than they are now.

    I don't think either can plausibly be done.

    What's the point? What happened happened. Truss got a lot wrong, but two things critically wrong imo - she let her friendship with Kwarteng persuade her to give him less supervision than necessary, and she badly underestimated the strength and number of the opponents of her policies. It must have been quite surprising the see the American President snarling at her attempt to reinstate the 40% top rate of tax, as if it was any of his f***ing business, but there we were.

    The point now is to look forward. We have a useless PM, with another useless PM in waiting. I see the best situation from here is for the Tories to ditch Sunak and give us an actual election.
    She made the mistake of, having won the election, thinking that her party might unify behind her, rather than half of them ruthlessly briefing against her from the minute HMQ was buried.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,992
    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, the challenge for Boris / Liz defenders is twofold.

    1 Construct a timeline that doesn't lead to the fall of their champion. Complete personality transplants not allowed.

    2 Construct a timeline where the Conservatives are more popular than they are now.

    I don't think either can plausibly be done.

    What's the point? What happened happened. Truss got a lot wrong, but two things critically wrong imo - she let her friendship with Kwarteng persuade her to give him less supervision than necessary, and she badly underestimated the strength and number of the opponents of her policies. It must have been quite surprising the see the American President snarling at her attempt to reinstate the 40% top rate of tax, as if it was any of his f***ing business, but there we were.

    The point now is to look forward. We have a useless PM, with another useless PM in waiting. I see the best situation from here is for the Tories to ditch Sunak and give us an actual election.
    She made the mistake of, having won the election, thinking that her party might unify behind her, rather than half of them ruthlessly briefing against her from the minute HMQ was buried.
    No, her mistake was to assume the appetite for tax cuts favouring the wealthiest was as strong in 2022 as it had been in 1981 but the world has changed.

    The notion of "fairness" is now in the ascendant - cutting the taxes of the poorest is now seen as more acceptable and if anything policies aimed at getting more out of the wealthiest would now have greater support.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,927
    edited July 2023
    stodge said:

    I'm afraid this has been obvious for a while.

    The way in which the Conservative Party has comported itself in Government over the last thirteen years is far and away the factor which will cause their defeat at the next election.

    It's not really Sunak or Truss or Johnson or May or Cameron in and of themselves - it's the Party they lead which has simply become a vehicle to remain in Government, to hold on to "power".

    The other side is what would another term of Conservative Government look like? For all the "ideas" and "true blue" thinking now being bandied about, the truth is they've been in power since May 2010 and the obvious question is why haven't all these wonderful ideas been implemented before now? Why has it taken a Conservative Government more than 13 years to become Conservative?

    As always, there are more questions than answers....

    They managed to dine out on 5 years of relatively competent and stable government 2010-2015 (some credit must be given to the LDs). In hindsight in then went downhill, very quickly, thereafter. The polarisation of Brexit, and Labour being stupid enough to make Corbyn leader, has sustained them for much longer than it should have done.

    If it hadn’t have been for those two issues we’d probably have had 9-10 years of vaguely ok Tory rule albeit getting a bit poor towards the end, and we’d probably be into the first term of a Cooper/Burnham government.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    I actually think changing leader again would be disastrous for the Tories. Not because of Sunak but just that they would be making themselves look ridiculous, or even more so than at present.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Miklosvar said:

    felix said:

    FPT: Re the heat in Europe



    Miklosvar said:

    In other news, Rhodes gets evacuated

    Wildfires spreading across the Greek island of Rhodes are leaving thousands of tourists in limbo, wondering where they will spend the night

    Meanwhile, holiday companies are cancelling flights to the island. Jet2 has cancelled flights to Rhodes all next week, while TUI stopped flights there until Wednesday

    EasyJet has cancelled package holidays but is still running flights to the island - as are British Airways, Ryanair, and others

    BA customers who are currently in Rhodes on a flight-only booking can change their flight to come back earlier than planned, free of charge, the airline says.

    And anyone flying to Rhodes with BA over the next week can change their flight to a later date, also free of charge.

    As for the BA flight tomorrow - the airline says it will use a larger plane than normal so that it can pick up as many people as possible in Rhodes who want to return to the UK.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66282605

    Nothing to see here, happens every year

    Throughout that region and most of the Med yes it does happen each year and it is down to chance mainly the type of areas affected. There may be also an issue as to how well the authorities have planned for fire risks. I live on the edge of Europe's only desert in Almeria - we had some bad fires here back in 2009 but very little of significance since. Each year now a lot of preventive measures are taken and they have rapid responses whenever and however a fire starts. Incidentally there are both the naturally occurring ones and often the larger number set by humans ignoring the rules or just being feckless.

    I'm sure the Greek authorities are thrilled that the entire region now faces boycotts and cancellations while the 10 day forecast is for entirely normal summer temperatures.

    https://www.eltiempo.es/rodas.html

    I doubt the daytime meteorological temperature is at the forefront of anyone's mind while the whole island is on fire 24/7.



    A quick google suggests parts of the south and south east are affected. Although some holiday flights have been cancelled next week Easyjet have not cancelled any of the regular flights. But thank you for your input corporal Jones
    Exactly, a few areas are a bit hotter in an El Nino year and all the hysterical fkucwits are wetting their pants. They have forest fires in these places all the time, it is far from unusual. Just given the grifters a good idea for more scamming.
    Um, I have spent even longer in Greece than you have in the Auchtermuchty drunk tank. It is, how to put this, quite often not on fire.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Meanwhile, the challenge for Boris / Liz defenders is twofold.

    1 Construct a timeline that doesn't lead to the fall of their champion. Complete personality transplants not allowed.

    2 Construct a timeline where the Conservatives are more popular than they are now.

    I don't think either can plausibly be done.

    At the moment Boris and Liz are still at the stage of reframing that they (or rather Liz, since Boris trying to claim credit for the idea of a new direction is risible - Liz was at least trying to do something new) were right all along. Unfortunately saying things like 'We need more growth but the woke anti-growthers stopped me' or whatever looks weak, even if it is right, and Sunak's failure taking time to sink in takes up too much of remaining time to reposition.

    I think the upcoming reshuffle will disappoint those looking for a new direction.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,927

    I actually think changing leader again would be disastrous for the Tories. Not because of Sunak but just that they would be making themselves look ridiculous, or even more so than at present.

    The problem they’d face is it’s not the person at the top that’s the problem, it’s their overall litany of failure coming home to roost.

    I can’t say I find Rishi particularly objectionable. He comes across quite well. He just isn’t up to dragging them out of the mire. But then very few people would be. It would require a colossal political talent to do so, and the party is now so hollowed out there’s little talent left.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,302
    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all

    Did you need any special visa to cross the border?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,437
    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, the challenge for Boris / Liz defenders is twofold.

    1 Construct a timeline that doesn't lead to the fall of their champion. Complete personality transplants not allowed.

    2 Construct a timeline where the Conservatives are more popular than they are now.

    I don't think either can plausibly be done.

    What's the point? What happened happened. Truss got a lot wrong, but two things critically wrong imo - she let her friendship with Kwarteng persuade her to give him less supervision than necessary, and she badly underestimated the strength and number of the opponents of her policies. It must have been quite surprising the see the American President snarling at her attempt to reinstate the 40% top rate of tax, as if it was any of his f***ing business, but there we were.

    The point now is to look forward. We have a useless PM, with another useless PM in waiting. I see the best situation from here is for the Tories to ditch Sunak and give us an actual election.
    She made the mistake of, having won the election, thinking that her party might unify behind her, rather than half of them ruthlessly briefing against her from the minute HMQ was buried.
    No, her mistake was to assume the appetite for tax cuts favouring the wealthiest was as strong in 2022 as it had been in 1981 but the world has changed.

    The notion of "fairness" is now in the ascendant - cutting the taxes of the poorest is now seen as more acceptable and if anything policies aimed at getting more out of the wealthiest would now have greater support.
    No, Liz Truss's mistake was to sideline the entire economic establishment — OBR, Treasury and Bank of England — which panicked the markets. She'd probably have got away with unfunded tax cuts otherwise but this gave the impression that the grown-ups disagreed with her policies.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    I actually think changing leader again would be disastrous for the Tories. Not because of Sunak but just that they would be making themselves look ridiculous, or even more so than at present.

    I thought Liz might have managed to survive after tossing Kwarteng to the wolves, and if she got past the worst of it then things would have stabilised. As it was that did not happen, and even though it was what people were baying for and the polling was collapsing, the very act of removing her after 50 days (and contemplating very seriously to replacing her with Boris despite the MPs just ousting him) is what I think fatally screwed them.

    They felt there was no other choice, and given the way she'd failed to deal with the crisis she provoked that was probably true, but in chopping of a leg to save the body the party crippled itself in the eyes of the public - Borisites will never forgive the initial ousting, those on the fence probably thought it ridiculous, and you don't get another free reinvention as in 2019.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,159

    I actually think changing leader again would be disastrous for the Tories. Not because of Sunak but just that they would be making themselves look ridiculous, or even more so than at present.

    The problem they’d face is it’s not the person at the top that’s the problem, it’s their overall litany of failure coming home to roost.

    I can’t say I find Rishi particularly objectionable. He comes across quite well. He just isn’t up to dragging them out of the mire. But then very few people would be. It would require a colossal political talent to do so, and the party is now so hollowed out there’s little talent left.
    Because Johnson couldn’t cope with anyone with ability, lest it show him up.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,437

    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all

    Did you need any special visa to cross the border?
    Just paint the letter Z on your suitcase.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    Should we ever allow Old Trafford to host a test again ?
    The likelihood of two solid days of rain must be the highest at any of the regular test grounds
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,318
    Why on earth is property so expensive in the UK?


  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,992

    stodge said:

    I'm afraid this has been obvious for a while.

    The way in which the Conservative Party has comported itself in Government over the last thirteen years is far and away the factor which will cause their defeat at the next election.

    It's not really Sunak or Truss or Johnson or May or Cameron in and of themselves - it's the Party they lead which has simply become a vehicle to remain in Government, to hold on to "power".

    The other side is what would another term of Conservative Government look like? For all the "ideas" and "true blue" thinking now being bandied about, the truth is they've been in power since May 2010 and the obvious question is why haven't all these wonderful ideas been implemented before now? Why has it taken a Conservative Government more than 13 years to become Conservative?

    As always, there are more questions than answers....

    They managed to dine out on 5 years of relatively competent and stable government 2010-2015 (some credit must be given to the LDs). In hindsight in then went downhill, very quickly, thereafter. The polarisation of Brexit, and Labour being stupid enough to make Corbyn leader, has sustained them for much longer than it should have done.

    If it hadn’t have been for those two issues we’d probably have had 9-10 years of vaguely ok Tory rule albeit getting a bit poor towards the end, and we’d probably be into the first term of a Cooper/Burnham government.
    The problem Cameron faced after winning his small majority in 2015 was the commitment he had given to re-negotiating the UK's membership with the EU had to be honoured.

    He gave that commitment at a point when it seemed possible UKIP would be an existential threat - once he was in the re-negotiating process, it was almost inevitable anything offered by the EU (not that they offered anything) would be unacceptable to the hardline anti-EU brigade.

    Cameron knew had he accepted some fudge from the EU, he would have risked if not an outright challenge then a number of potential defections to UKIP. With no fudge, Cameron was then forced into a corner of an straight IN-OUT vote. Perhaps he thought he could win a straight vote if it came to it...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, the challenge for Boris / Liz defenders is twofold.

    1 Construct a timeline that doesn't lead to the fall of their champion. Complete personality transplants not allowed.

    2 Construct a timeline where the Conservatives are more popular than they are now.

    I don't think either can plausibly be done.

    What's the point? What happened happened. Truss got a lot wrong, but two things critically wrong imo - she let her friendship with Kwarteng persuade her to give him less supervision than necessary, and she badly underestimated the strength and number of the opponents of her policies. It must have been quite surprising the see the American President snarling at her attempt to reinstate the 40% top rate of tax, as if it was any of his f***ing business, but there we were.

    The point now is to look forward. We have a useless PM, with another useless PM in waiting. I see the best situation from here is for the Tories to ditch Sunak and give us an actual election.
    She made the mistake of, having won the election, thinking that her party might unify behind her, rather than half of them ruthlessly briefing against her from the minute HMQ was buried.
    No, her mistake was to assume the appetite for tax cuts favouring the wealthiest was as strong in 2022 as it had been in 1981 but the world has changed.

    The notion of "fairness" is now in the ascendant - cutting the taxes of the poorest is now seen as more acceptable and if anything policies aimed at getting more out of the wealthiest would now have greater support.
    No, Liz Truss's mistake was to sideline the entire economic establishment — OBR, Treasury and Bank of England — which panicked the markets. She'd probably have got away with unfunded tax cuts otherwise but this gave the impression that the grown-ups disagreed with her policies.
    The way it was presented, alongside firing the Head of the Treasury and such, made it look like she was just making a bunch of vague comments about growth as cover for giving rich people freebies, with no sense it was the result of an analysis of problems.

    Of course, we clearly do have deep economic problems and she was probably right people are ready to hear solutions for that. But whilst all government decisions are political, it seemed completely ideological, in the pejorative 'this is what a I believe no matter what the evidence might suggest' sense of the word.

    As for the party briefing against her immediately, this is also probably true, but it is not really the defence of Truss people think it is - a party leader has to bring their party with them. Prepare them, persuade them, co-opt them. Even if they've just won a stonking 'mandate' from party members, the MPs are the ones who have to stand up and defend these things, and implement them if in government. It may have taken more time, but could they have been brought on board with more preparation? Wait until after Christmas and she's in post several months, we're 1.5-2 years out rather than 2-2.5 as well, and everyone has settled into the new positions anyway.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    edited July 2023
    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Miklosvar said:

    felix said:

    FPT: Re the heat in Europe



    Miklosvar said:

    In other news, Rhodes gets evacuated

    Wildfires spreading across the Greek island of Rhodes are leaving thousands of tourists in limbo, wondering where they will spend the night

    Meanwhile, holiday companies are cancelling flights to the island. Jet2 has cancelled flights to Rhodes all next week, while TUI stopped flights there until Wednesday

    EasyJet has cancelled package holidays but is still running flights to the island - as are British Airways, Ryanair, and others

    BA customers who are currently in Rhodes on a flight-only booking can change their flight to come back earlier than planned, free of charge, the airline says.

    And anyone flying to Rhodes with BA over the next week can change their flight to a later date, also free of charge.

    As for the BA flight tomorrow - the airline says it will use a larger plane than normal so that it can pick up as many people as possible in Rhodes who want to return to the UK.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66282605

    Nothing to see here, happens every year

    Throughout that region and most of the Med yes it does happen each year and it is down to chance mainly the type of areas affected. There may be also an issue as to how well the authorities have planned for fire risks. I live on the edge of Europe's only desert in Almeria - we had some bad fires here back in 2009 but very little of significance since. Each year now a lot of preventive measures are taken and they have rapid responses whenever and however a fire starts. Incidentally there are both the naturally occurring ones and often the larger number set by humans ignoring the rules or just being feckless.

    I'm sure the Greek authorities are thrilled that the entire region now faces boycotts and cancellations while the 10 day forecast is for entirely normal summer temperatures.

    https://www.eltiempo.es/rodas.html

    I doubt the daytime meteorological temperature is at the forefront of anyone's mind while the whole island is on fire 24/7.



    A quick google suggests parts of the south and south east are affected. Although some holiday flights have been cancelled next week Easyjet have not cancelled any of the regular flights. But thank you for your input corporal Jones
    Exactly, a few areas are a bit hotter in an El Nino year and all the hysterical fkucwits are wetting their pants. They have forest fires in these places all the time, it is far from unusual. Just given the grifters a good idea for more scamming.
    You might like this cool website https://showyourstripes.info/s/europe/unitedkingdom/scotland


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Why on earth is property so expensive in the UK?


    MPs jumping on NIMBY bandwagons is just a symptom of course. They have no ability to impact a decision, and opposers will be much louder, so it almost always makes sense for them to come out against - if it gets approved they can always blame the local council or an inspector. Being in favour has equally no impact on the decision, and pleases fewer people.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,869
    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, the challenge for Boris / Liz defenders is twofold.

    1 Construct a timeline that doesn't lead to the fall of their champion. Complete personality transplants not allowed.

    2 Construct a timeline where the Conservatives are more popular than they are now.

    I don't think either can plausibly be done.

    What's the point? What happened happened. Truss got a lot wrong, but two things critically wrong imo - she let her friendship with Kwarteng persuade her to give him less supervision than necessary, and she badly underestimated the strength and number of the opponents of her policies. It must have been quite surprising the see the American President snarling at her attempt to reinstate the 40% top rate of tax, as if it was any of his f***ing business, but there we were.

    The point now is to look forward. We have a useless PM, with another useless PM in waiting. I see the best situation from here is for the Tories to ditch Sunak and give us an actual election.
    She made the mistake of, having won the election, thinking that her party might unify behind her, rather than half of them ruthlessly briefing against her from the minute HMQ was buried.
    No, her mistake was to assume the appetite for tax cuts favouring the wealthiest was as strong in 2022 as it had been in 1981 but the world has changed.

    The notion of "fairness" is now in the ascendant - cutting the taxes of the poorest is now seen as more acceptable and if anything policies aimed at getting more out of the wealthiest would now have greater support.
    I don’t think she did make that assumption. She realised many of her policies would make her unpopular in the short term (she said it many times) and was prepared to ride that out and fight an election on the results. Sadly, she didn't factor in de facto opposition from the BOE, the UK CS, the OBR, the IMF, the US, a nasty lot of backstabbers within the PCP - she needed to fight one at a time, not all at once on the battleground of Kwasi's somewhat flawed mini-budget.

    Personally I think the energy/fracking stuff should have been packaged up with the energy price guarantee and put through as an energy security bill before anything else. Then a Food security bill, THEN an economical security bill.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,869
    edited July 2023

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, the challenge for Boris / Liz defenders is twofold.

    1 Construct a timeline that doesn't lead to the fall of their champion. Complete personality transplants not allowed.

    2 Construct a timeline where the Conservatives are more popular than they are now.

    I don't think either can plausibly be done.

    What's the point? What happened happened. Truss got a lot wrong, but two things critically wrong imo - she let her friendship with Kwarteng persuade her to give him less supervision than necessary, and she badly underestimated the strength and number of the opponents of her policies. It must have been quite surprising the see the American President snarling at her attempt to reinstate the 40% top rate of tax, as if it was any of his f***ing business, but there we were.

    The point now is to look forward. We have a useless PM, with another useless PM in waiting. I see the best situation from here is for the Tories to ditch Sunak and give us an actual election.
    She made the mistake of, having won the election, thinking that her party might unify behind her, rather than half of them ruthlessly briefing against her from the minute HMQ was buried.
    No, her mistake was to assume the appetite for tax cuts favouring the wealthiest was as strong in 2022 as it had been in 1981 but the world has changed.

    The notion of "fairness" is now in the ascendant - cutting the taxes of the poorest is now seen as more acceptable and if anything policies aimed at getting more out of the wealthiest would now have greater support.
    No, Liz Truss's mistake was to sideline the entire economic establishment — OBR, Treasury and Bank of England — which panicked the markets. She'd probably have got away with unfunded tax cuts otherwise but this gave the impression that the grown-ups disagreed with her policies.
    The 'grown ups' did disagree with her policies. They have now had the chance to implement their preferred policies, and they have proven demonstrably worse. Well done grown ups. *slow hand clap*
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    I actually think changing leader again would be disastrous for the Tories. Not because of Sunak but just that they would be making themselves look ridiculous, or even more so than at present.

    The problem they’d face is it’s not the person at the top that’s the problem, it’s their overall litany of failure coming home to roost.

    I can’t say I find Rishi particularly objectionable. He comes across quite well. He just isn’t up to dragging them out of the mire. But then very few people would be. It would require a colossal political talent to do so, and the party is now so hollowed out there’s little talent left.
    Quite. They've been in power 13 years, which is a lot. They've made some bad calls, some very bad calls, had some bad luck on top of that, and they've run out of energy, ideas, or ability to deal with many of the biggest problems.

    Truss's intent was to do a hail mary and hope it worked, Sunak's is to stem the bleeding and hope they can cling on, and neither seems to have achieved that.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    edited July 2023
    (error)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,869

    I actually think changing leader again would be disastrous for the Tories. Not because of Sunak but just that they would be making themselves look ridiculous, or even more so than at present.

    The problem they’d face is it’s not the person at the top that’s the problem, it’s their overall litany of failure coming home to roost.

    I can’t say I find Rishi particularly objectionable. He comes across quite well. He just isn’t up to dragging them out of the mire. But then very few people would be. It would require a colossal political talent to do so, and the party is now so hollowed out there’s little talent left.
    I always find people saying he comes across well quite bizarre. Where and when has he come across well? Did I miss a solitary interview, speech, or PMQs where he came across well? So far as I can see, every time he opens his trap it's a full on disaster.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, the challenge for Boris / Liz defenders is twofold.

    1 Construct a timeline that doesn't lead to the fall of their champion. Complete personality transplants not allowed.

    2 Construct a timeline where the Conservatives are more popular than they are now.

    I don't think either can plausibly be done.

    What's the point? What happened happened. Truss got a lot wrong, but two things critically wrong imo - she let her friendship with Kwarteng persuade her to give him less supervision than necessary, and she badly underestimated the strength and number of the opponents of her policies. It must have been quite surprising the see the American President snarling at her attempt to reinstate the 40% top rate of tax, as if it was any of his f***ing business, but there we were.

    The point now is to look forward. We have a useless PM, with another useless PM in waiting. I see the best situation from here is for the Tories to ditch Sunak and give us an actual election.
    She made the mistake of, having won the election, thinking that her party might unify behind her, rather than half of them ruthlessly briefing against her from the minute HMQ was buried.
    No, her mistake was to assume the appetite for tax cuts favouring the wealthiest was as strong in 2022 as it had been in 1981 but the world has changed.

    The notion of "fairness" is now in the ascendant - cutting the taxes of the poorest is now seen as more acceptable and if anything policies aimed at getting more out of the wealthiest would now have greater support.
    I don’t think she did make that assumption. She realised many of her policies would make her unpopular in the short term (she said it many times) and was prepared to ride that out and fight an election on the results. Sadly, she didn't factor in de facto opposition from the BOE, the UK CS, the OBR, the IMF, the US, a nasty lot of backstabbers within the PCP - she needed to fight one at a time, not all at once on the battleground of Kwasi's somewhat flawed mini-budget.

    Personally I think the energy/fracking stuff should have been packaged up with the energy price guarantee and put through as an energy security bill before anything else. Then a Food security bill, THEN an economical security bill.
    I thought her fracking decision was correct. The idea of bringing through the various things piecemeal does tactically seem like would have been more effective, in hindsight. Wouldn't spook as many people, eliminates the argument there was no time put in to considering the measures, and a cumulative effect from passing one helping cement her ideas for the next vote.

    Liz "Icarus" Truss?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    Do the Ukrainians know what they are in for letting Leon in to sample the wine bars of Lviv?
  • ScarpiaScarpia Posts: 70
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    2nd like Ken.

    What a gent he is.
    Just helping out @TSE .


    What's in the little bag? And what is the map for? I'm surprised modern children know what a paper map is.
    Havetn't posted for yonks but couldn't resit the Barbie Destroyer of Worlds idea- reminding me of this

    The Barbie Liberation Organization or BLO, sponsored by RTMark, were a group of artists and activists involved in culture jamming. They gained notoriety in 1993 after switching voice boxes in talking G.I. Joes and Barbie dolls. The BLO performed "surgery" on a reported 300–500 dolls from retail and returned them to shelves, an action they refer to as shopgiving. Thus, Teen Talk Barbie dolls would say phrases such as "Vengeance is mine", while G.I. Joe dolls would say phrases such as "The beach is the place for summer!"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbie_Liberation_Organizationv

    It's all got a bit consed since then.

    However voicebox swaps prompts the thought of JRM with .. Danny Dyer, CIlla Black, Baldrick.....
  • ScarpiaScarpia Posts: 70
    ..a bit confused..
    (how do you do edit these days?)
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,475

    Tried my best to do a Barbie themed tread but failed.

    You could have at least used a photo of Ma Robbie. Call it ironic juxtaposition or something…
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:



    But jeez it puts everything in perspective. What the fuck are we moaning about in the UK? Cost of living crisis? Food banks? What a load of pathetic whining. We have grown fat and feeble

    If testimonials from last night are to be believed being too thin is a bigger issue for most PBers.

    Feeble, probably more on point.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148

    Why on earth is property so expensive in the UK?


    Haven’t you got the memo?

    There is no housing shortage

    1) the increase in en-suite bathrooms means there are enough rooms for everyone to sleep in
    2) all the flats were stolen by Fu Manchu
    3) brownfield. Underpants. Profit
    4) an increasing population means that a smaller number of properties are required and will be cheaper {insert bullshit maths here}
    5) racist
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,591

    Why on earth is property so expensive in the UK?


    Haven’t you got the memo?

    There is no housing shortage

    1) the increase in en-suite bathrooms means there are enough rooms for everyone to sleep in
    2) all the flats were stolen by Fu Manchu
    3) brownfield. Underpants. Profit
    4) an increasing population means that a smaller number of properties are required and will be cheaper {insert bullshit maths here}
    5) racist
    6) We need infrastructure first
    7) Don't build infrastructure either though.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,688
    Miklosvar said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Miklosvar said:

    felix said:

    FPT: Re the heat in Europe



    Miklosvar said:

    In other news, Rhodes gets evacuated

    Wildfires spreading across the Greek island of Rhodes are leaving thousands of tourists in limbo, wondering where they will spend the night

    Meanwhile, holiday companies are cancelling flights to the island. Jet2 has cancelled flights to Rhodes all next week, while TUI stopped flights there until Wednesday

    EasyJet has cancelled package holidays but is still running flights to the island - as are British Airways, Ryanair, and others

    BA customers who are currently in Rhodes on a flight-only booking can change their flight to come back earlier than planned, free of charge, the airline says.

    And anyone flying to Rhodes with BA over the next week can change their flight to a later date, also free of charge.

    As for the BA flight tomorrow - the airline says it will use a larger plane than normal so that it can pick up as many people as possible in Rhodes who want to return to the UK.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-66282605

    Nothing to see here, happens every year

    Throughout that region and most of the Med yes it does happen each year and it is down to chance mainly the type of areas affected. There may be also an issue as to how well the authorities have planned for fire risks. I live on the edge of Europe's only desert in Almeria - we had some bad fires here back in 2009 but very little of significance since. Each year now a lot of preventive measures are taken and they have rapid responses whenever and however a fire starts. Incidentally there are both the naturally occurring ones and often the larger number set by humans ignoring the rules or just being feckless.

    I'm sure the Greek authorities are thrilled that the entire region now faces boycotts and cancellations while the 10 day forecast is for entirely normal summer temperatures.

    https://www.eltiempo.es/rodas.html

    I doubt the daytime meteorological temperature is at the forefront of anyone's mind while the whole island is on fire 24/7.



    A quick google suggests parts of the south and south east are affected. Although some holiday flights have been cancelled next week Easyjet have not cancelled any of the regular flights. But thank you for your input corporal Jones
    Exactly, a few areas are a bit hotter in an El Nino year and all the hysterical fkucwits are wetting their pants. They have forest fires in these places all the time, it is far from unusual. Just given the grifters a good idea for more scamming.
    Um, I have spent even longer in Greece than you have in the Auchtermuchty drunk tank. It is, how to put this, quite often not on fire.
    Longer than Homer?

    "And as when consuming fire falls upon thick woodlands and the whiching wind beareth it everywhither and the thickets fall utterly as they are assailed by the onrush at the fire."

    A significant portion of the Greek ecosystem - the Maquis - which makes up about 15% of the total land area of Greece, couldn't actually exist without forest fires.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,927

    I actually think changing leader again would be disastrous for the Tories. Not because of Sunak but just that they would be making themselves look ridiculous, or even more so than at present.

    The problem they’d face is it’s not the person at the top that’s the problem, it’s their overall litany of failure coming home to roost.

    I can’t say I find Rishi particularly objectionable. He comes across quite well. He just isn’t up to dragging them out of the mire. But then very few people would be. It would require a colossal political talent to do so, and the party is now so hollowed out there’s little talent left.
    I always find people saying he comes across well quite bizarre. Where and when has he come across well? Did I miss a solitary interview, speech, or PMQs where he came across well? So far as I can see, every time he opens his trap it's a full on disaster.
    I suppose it’s in the eye of the beholder, but I don’t think he comes across badly. the stuff he spouts might not be great, but of all the problems he faces his presentation style isn’t up there IMHO.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all

    Did you need any special visa to cross the border?
    No. Nothing at all

    I actually have Press Accreditation from the Ukrainian army - meaning I can break curfew and go to combat zones (huzzah!) - but you don’t need anything at all. Just a UK passport and patience in dealing with transport delays. Book trains days ahead and arrive early etc

    Expect cancellations. Factor in flexibility

    I absolutely recommend any PBer to come. Bear witness. And lviv is incredible

    It’s quite tough as well. All the wounded men



    But jeez it puts everything in perspective. What the fuck are we moaning about in the UK? Cost of living crisis? Food banks? What a load of pathetic whining. We have grown fat and feeble

    We’re not all complaining; some of us are just working harder

    Im having my first day off in ten, and my second in nineteen. Monday to Saturday I worked sixty two hours

    Im making dinner for my parents tonight, the lamb and rhubarb stew with rice and an Ottolenghi cucumber salad. Waitrose ran out of rhubarb; I happened to see a neighbour on the way back who directed me to their allotment half filled with overgrown rhubarb!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,318
    I see Elon Musk is hoping to re-brand Twitter as “X” tomorrow night.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all

    Did you need any special visa to cross the border?
    No. Nothing at all

    I actually have Press Accreditation from the Ukrainian army - meaning I can break curfew and go to combat zones (huzzah!) - but you don’t need anything at all. Just a UK passport and patience in dealing with transport delays. Book trains days ahead and arrive early etc

    Expect cancellations. Factor in flexibility

    I absolutely recommend any PBer to come. Bear witness. And lviv is incredible

    It’s quite tough as well. All the wounded men



    But jeez it puts everything in perspective. What the fuck are we moaning about in the UK? Cost of living crisis? Food banks? What a load of pathetic whining. We have grown fat and feeble

    We’re not all complaining; some of us are just working harder

    Im having my first day off in ten, and my second in nineteen. Monday to Saturday I worked sixty two hours

    Im making dinner for my parents tonight, the lamb and rhubarb stew with rice and an Ottolenghi cucumber salad. Waitrose ran out of rhubarb; I happened to see a neighbour on the way back who directed me to their allotment half filled with overgrown rhubarb!
    Smacked cucumber salad with sumac onions and radishes
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,335

    Meanwhile, the challenge for Boris / Liz defenders is twofold.

    1 Construct a timeline that doesn't lead to the fall of their champion. Complete personality transplants not allowed.

    2 Construct a timeline where the Conservatives are more popular than they are now.

    I don't think either can plausibly be done.

    What's the point? What happened happened. Truss got a lot wrong, but two things critically wrong imo - she let her friendship with Kwarteng persuade her to give him less supervision than necessary, and she badly underestimated the strength and number of the opponents of her policies. It must have been quite surprising the see the American President snarling at her attempt to reinstate the 40% top rate of tax, as if it was any of his f***ing business, but there we were.

    The point now is to look forward. We have a useless PM, with another useless PM in waiting. I see the best situation from here is for the Tories to ditch Sunak and give us an actual election.
    Truss lost control of the narrative because she didn’t have an answer when people asked the obvious question of /how/ exactly her policies were going to bring about growth. Everyone could see that they made the fiscal position of the government worse in the short term & she had no answer to the growth question apart from “it worked for Thatcher”.

    Unfortunately for her Thatcher cosplay doesn’t get you the right to economic growth & once she was revealed as an empty shell with no idea what she was doing (& her Chancellor likewise) the markets spooked & there was no way back.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,475
    stodge said:

    I'm afraid this has been obvious for a while.

    The way in which the Conservative Party has comported itself in Government over the last thirteen years is far and away the factor which will cause their defeat at the next election.

    It's not really Sunak or Truss or Johnson or May or Cameron in and of themselves - it's the Party they lead which has simply become a vehicle to remain in Government, to hold on to "power".

    The other side is what would another term of Conservative Government look like? For all the "ideas" and "true blue" thinking now being bandied about, the truth is they've been in power since May 2010 and the obvious question is why haven't all these wonderful ideas been implemented before now? Why has it taken a Conservative Government more than 13 years to become Conservative?

    As always, there are more questions than answers....

    I think the “why haven’t the ideas been implemented” attack - while potent - is a little unfair

    2010-15 cleaning up the GFC mess
    2015-20 focus on Brexit
    2020-today pandemic and Ukraine

    All of those items were all consuming (not trying to assign responsibility, merely to note that bandwidth for anything else was limited)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    Scarpia said:

    ..a bit confused..
    (how do you do edit these days?)

    Mouse the cursor over to the top right and a little cogwheel opens - says something like Edit; click that and you can edit your post in the usual box. But you only have a few minutes to do it. No cogwheel = too late.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,335

    I see Elon Musk is hoping to re-brand Twitter as “X” tomorrow night.

    So he’s going to burn all Twitter’s SEO juice in a single move.

    What a genius.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,335

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all

    Did you need any special visa to cross the border?
    No. Nothing at all

    I actually have Press Accreditation from the Ukrainian army - meaning I can break curfew and go to combat zones (huzzah!) - but you don’t need anything at all. Just a UK passport and patience in dealing with transport delays. Book trains days ahead and arrive early etc

    Expect cancellations. Factor in flexibility

    I absolutely recommend any PBer to come. Bear witness. And lviv is incredible

    It’s quite tough as well. All the wounded men



    But jeez it puts everything in perspective. What the fuck are we moaning about in the UK? Cost of living crisis? Food banks? What a load of pathetic whining. We have grown fat and feeble

    We’re not all complaining; some of us are just working harder

    Im having my first day off in ten, and my second in nineteen. Monday to Saturday I worked sixty two hours

    Im making dinner for my parents tonight, the lamb and rhubarb stew with rice and an Ottolenghi cucumber salad. Waitrose ran out of rhubarb; I happened to see a neighbour on the way back who directed me to their allotment half filled with overgrown rhubarb!
    Rhubarb is the best. Crumble next?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    @Miklosvar has a point on Rhodes. This does not sound “normal”


    “Greece mounted its largest-ever island evacuation this weekend, moving close to 19,000 people on Rhodes to escape wildfires that have prompted some tour operators to cancel flights to the popular destination.”

    https://www.ft.com/content/9c67eb16-931b-462c-9174-32245725da07
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,927
    edited July 2023
    On the Truss episode. The whole thing looking back is one of the weirdest episodes in British politics I’ve seen for some time. And we’ve had a lot of weirdness in the past 8 years.

    Firstly, the only way she could have hoped to ride out the storm (which was already of her own making) would have been to double down, back Kwarteng and tell her critics to stuff it and wait and see the positive results. The problem is that one has to be made of exceptionally strong stuff to be able to do that, when everyone is out to get you, and one has to be a decent communicator. Truss was neither. She liked to think of herself as a latter day Thatcher but she couldn’t hack it. She blinked. And she showed the pressure. And from there it was inevitable the whole thing would collapse.

    Secondly, this all came about because of a highly deranged Tory leadership contest where the issue of tax cuts came out of absolutely nowhere and became the primary issue of the campaign, DESPITE this being pretty low on the list of public priorities. She leaned into this far too much and created a rod for her own back.

    Thirdly Truss was naive to the extreme in thinking the mandate from Tory members gave her mandate to do whatever she liked as PM. Constitutionally maybe, but certainly not in the eyes of the public. She should have spent the time leading up to the next election speaking about and arguing for a pro-growth agenda but recognising that it would need a mandate at the next GE. She could do some small things to “set the groundwork” where possible, but really take the time to actually argue her point rather than go in all guns blazing.

    I am afraid the conclusion I draw from all 3 items above is that, fundamentally, Liz Truss did not have the political skills to be PM and was grossly overpromoted in getting the role. Not up to it. Unfortunately the country suffers as a result.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all

    Did you need any special visa to cross the border?
    No. Nothing at all

    I actually have Press Accreditation from the Ukrainian army - meaning I can break curfew and go to combat zones (huzzah!) - but you don’t need anything at all. Just a UK passport and patience in dealing with transport delays. Book trains days ahead and arrive early etc

    Expect cancellations. Factor in flexibility

    I absolutely recommend any PBer to come. Bear witness. And lviv is incredible

    It’s quite tough as well. All the wounded men



    But jeez it puts everything in perspective. What the fuck are we moaning about in the UK? Cost of living crisis? Food banks? What a load of pathetic whining. We have grown fat and feeble
    Gosh you're turning into a new Hemmingway! But please be careful when you go to the frontline. Bullets and bombs are no respecters of literary talent.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393
    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all

    Did you need any special visa to cross the border?
    No. Nothing at all

    I actually have Press Accreditation from the Ukrainian army - meaning I can break curfew and go to combat zones (huzzah!) - but you don’t need anything at all. Just a UK passport and patience in dealing with transport delays. Book trains days ahead and arrive early etc

    Expect cancellations. Factor in flexibility

    I absolutely recommend any PBer to come. Bear witness. And lviv is incredible

    It’s quite tough as well. All the wounded men



    But jeez it puts everything in perspective. What the fuck are we moaning about in the UK? Cost of living crisis? Food banks? What a load of pathetic whining. We have grown fat and feeble

    We’re not all complaining; some of us are just working harder

    Im having my first day off in ten, and my second in nineteen. Monday to Saturday I worked sixty two hours

    Im making dinner for my parents tonight, the lamb and rhubarb stew with rice and an Ottolenghi cucumber salad. Waitrose ran out of rhubarb; I happened to see a neighbour on the way back who directed me to their allotment half filled with overgrown rhubarb!
    Rhubarb is the best. Crumble next?
    Or just stewed with some sugar, and served with

    (a) custard
    (b) ground rice pudding
    (c) ice cream
    (d) not too sour Greek yog
    or (e) cream

    c-e served with shortbread as a side nibble/crunch.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,318

    On the Truss episode. The whole thing looking back is one of the weirdest episodes in British politics I’ve seen for some time. And we’ve had a lot of weirdness in the past 8 years.

    Firstly, the only way she could have hoped to ride out the storm (which was already of her own making) would have been to double down, back Kwarteng and tell her critics to stuff it and wait and see the positive results. The problem is that one has to be made of exceptionally strong stuff to be able to do that, when everyone is out to get you, and one has to be a decent communicator. Truss was neither. She liked to think of herself as a latter day Thatcher but she couldn’t hack it. She blinked. And she showed the pressure. And from there it was inevitable the whole thing would collapse.

    Secondly, this all came about because of a highly deranged Tory leadership contest where the issue of tax cuts came out of absolutely nowhere and became the primary issue of the campaign, DESPITE this being pretty low on the list of public priorities. She leaned into this far too much.

    Thirdly Truss was naive to the extreme in thinking the mandate from Tory members gave her mandate to do whatever she liked as PM. Constitutionally maybe, but certainly not in the eyes of the public. She should have spent the time leading up to the next election speaking about and arguing for a pro-growth agenda but recognising that it would need a mandate at the next GE. She could do some small things to “set the groundwork” where possible, but really take the time to actually argue her point rather than go in all guns blazing.

    I am afraid the conclusion I draw from all 3 items above is that, fundamentally, Liz Truss did not have the political skills to be PM and was grossly overpromoted in getting the role. Not up to it. Unfortunately the country suffers as a result.

    Truss is a nutter.
    (And those who worked most closely with her suggested as much in advance of her premiership).

    But it’s a sad judgment on the UK that she even enjoyed a succession of highly significant cabinet roles without any check or real scrutiny.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,471
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    I'm afraid this has been obvious for a while.

    The way in which the Conservative Party has comported itself in Government over the last thirteen years is far and away the factor which will cause their defeat at the next election.

    It's not really Sunak or Truss or Johnson or May or Cameron in and of themselves - it's the Party they lead which has simply become a vehicle to remain in Government, to hold on to "power".

    The other side is what would another term of Conservative Government look like? For all the "ideas" and "true blue" thinking now being bandied about, the truth is they've been in power since May 2010 and the obvious question is why haven't all these wonderful ideas been implemented before now? Why has it taken a Conservative Government more than 13 years to become Conservative?

    As always, there are more questions than answers....

    They managed to dine out on 5 years of relatively competent and stable government 2010-2015 (some credit must be given to the LDs). In hindsight in then went downhill, very quickly, thereafter. The polarisation of Brexit, and Labour being stupid enough to make Corbyn leader, has sustained them for much longer than it should have done.

    If it hadn’t have been for those two issues we’d probably have had 9-10 years of vaguely ok Tory rule albeit getting a bit poor towards the end, and we’d probably be into the first term of a Cooper/Burnham government.
    The problem Cameron faced after winning his small majority in 2015 was the commitment he had given to re-negotiating the UK's membership with the EU had to be honoured.

    He gave that commitment at a point when it seemed possible UKIP would be an existential threat - once he was in the re-negotiating process, it was almost inevitable anything offered by the EU (not that they offered anything) would be unacceptable to the hardline anti-EU brigade.

    Cameron knew had he accepted some fudge from the EU, he would have risked if not an outright challenge then a number of potential defections to UKIP. With no fudge, Cameron was then forced into a corner of an straight IN-OUT vote. Perhaps he thought he could win a straight vote if it came to it...
    I think he could have done if he had really committed to it, and appreciated the very real possibility of defeat if he didn't.

    Like a lot of us (well, me anyway) he didn't think the electorate would be so effing stupid as to vote for something that was plainly bad for the economy. He was surprised, as I was, to find otherwise.

    As a leading politician, he's fairly high up the list of defendants when the show trials begin. Ordinary members of the public like me who were simply too complacent will have to wait our turn.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,148
    Leon said:

    @Miklosvar has a point on Rhodes. This does not sound “normal”


    “Greece mounted its largest-ever island evacuation this weekend, moving close to 19,000 people on Rhodes to escape wildfires that have prompted some tour operators to cancel flights to the popular destination.”

    https://www.ft.com/content/9c67eb16-931b-462c-9174-32245725da07

    #ClimateChangeIsReal maybe?

    Which is why we need policies that aren’t regressive taxation. Note that the climate change levy on energy bills isn’t a problem because it is *equal*. Well, kinda. The rich have the best insulated homes, of course.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all

    Did you need any special visa to cross the border?
    No. Nothing at all

    I actually have Press Accreditation from the Ukrainian army - meaning I can break curfew and go to combat zones (huzzah!) - but you don’t need anything at all. Just a UK passport and patience in dealing with transport delays. Book trains days ahead and arrive early etc

    Expect cancellations. Factor in flexibility

    I absolutely recommend any PBer to come. Bear witness. And lviv is incredible

    It’s quite tough as well. All the wounded men



    But jeez it puts everything in perspective. What the fuck are we moaning about in the UK? Cost of living crisis? Food banks? What a load of pathetic whining. We have grown fat and feeble

    We’re not all complaining; some of us are just working harder

    Im having my first day off in ten, and my second in nineteen. Monday to Saturday I worked sixty two hours

    Im making dinner for my parents tonight, the lamb and rhubarb stew with rice and an Ottolenghi cucumber salad. Waitrose ran out of rhubarb; I happened to see a neighbour on the way back who directed me to their allotment half filled with overgrown rhubarb!
    That’s a hard job. Respect

    I’m thinking more of the guardian front page mindset. Which is endless headlines whinging about this that and the next. From racist flower arranging to our “practically fascist government” to the catastrophic lack of kindergarten slots in
    Yorkshire

    It’s all so spineless and dreary and lifeless and enfeebled.

    And how dare we call it a “cost of living CRISIS”. 50p on eggs at Aldi is not a frigging crisis. 10,000 young men dead is a crisis. We have debased the language of alarm
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,475

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, the challenge for Boris / Liz defenders is twofold.

    1 Construct a timeline that doesn't lead to the fall of their champion. Complete personality transplants not allowed.

    2 Construct a timeline where the Conservatives are more popular than they are now.

    I don't think either can plausibly be done.

    What's the point? What happened happened. Truss got a lot wrong, but two things critically wrong imo - she let her friendship with Kwarteng persuade her to give him less supervision than necessary, and she badly underestimated the strength and number of the opponents of her policies. It must have been quite surprising the see the American President snarling at her attempt to reinstate the 40% top rate of tax, as if it was any of his f***ing business, but there we were.

    The point now is to look forward. We have a useless PM, with another useless PM in waiting. I see the best situation from here is for the Tories to ditch Sunak and give us an actual election.
    She made the mistake of, having won the election, thinking that her party might unify behind her, rather than half of them ruthlessly briefing against her from the minute HMQ was buried.
    No, her mistake was to assume the appetite for tax cuts favouring the wealthiest was as strong in 2022 as it had been in 1981 but the world has changed.

    The notion of "fairness" is now in the ascendant - cutting the taxes of the poorest is now seen as more acceptable and if anything policies aimed at getting more out of the wealthiest would now have greater support.
    I don’t think she did make that assumption. She realised many of her policies would make her unpopular in the short term (she said it many times) and was prepared to ride that out and fight an election on the results. Sadly, she didn't factor in de facto opposition from the BOE, the UK CS, the OBR, the IMF, the US, a nasty lot of backstabbers within the PCP - she needed to fight one at a time, not all at once on the battleground of Kwasi's somewhat flawed mini-budget.

    Personally I think the energy/fracking stuff should have been packaged up with the energy price guarantee and put through as an energy security bill before anything else. Then a Food security bill, THEN an economical security bill.
    TL;DR

    She’s shit at politics

  • Carnyx said:

    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all

    Did you need any special visa to cross the border?
    No. Nothing at all

    I actually have Press Accreditation from the Ukrainian army - meaning I can break curfew and go to combat zones (huzzah!) - but you don’t need anything at all. Just a UK passport and patience in dealing with transport delays. Book trains days ahead and arrive early etc

    Expect cancellations. Factor in flexibility

    I absolutely recommend any PBer to come. Bear witness. And lviv is incredible

    It’s quite tough as well. All the wounded men



    But jeez it puts everything in perspective. What the fuck are we moaning about in the UK? Cost of living crisis? Food banks? What a load of pathetic whining. We have grown fat and feeble

    We’re not all complaining; some of us are just working harder

    Im having my first day off in ten, and my second in nineteen. Monday to Saturday I worked sixty two hours

    Im making dinner for my parents tonight, the lamb and rhubarb stew with rice and an Ottolenghi cucumber salad. Waitrose ran out of rhubarb; I happened to see a neighbour on the way back who directed me to their allotment half filled with overgrown rhubarb!
    Rhubarb is the best. Crumble next?
    Or just stewed with some sugar, and served with

    (a) custard
    (b) ground rice pudding
    (c) ice cream
    (d) not too sour Greek yog
    or (e) cream

    c-e served with shortbread as a side nibble/crunch.

    I love rhubarb like that, especially as crumble with custard, but have never cooked a sweet rhubarb dish

    I first used it raw and salted in a salad last week, and now my second time cooking it in a savoury main course stew
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,437
    edited July 2023

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, the challenge for Boris / Liz defenders is twofold.

    1 Construct a timeline that doesn't lead to the fall of their champion. Complete personality transplants not allowed.

    2 Construct a timeline where the Conservatives are more popular than they are now.

    I don't think either can plausibly be done.

    What's the point? What happened happened. Truss got a lot wrong, but two things critically wrong imo - she let her friendship with Kwarteng persuade her to give him less supervision than necessary, and she badly underestimated the strength and number of the opponents of her policies. It must have been quite surprising the see the American President snarling at her attempt to reinstate the 40% top rate of tax, as if it was any of his f***ing business, but there we were.

    The point now is to look forward. We have a useless PM, with another useless PM in waiting. I see the best situation from here is for the Tories to ditch Sunak and give us an actual election.
    She made the mistake of, having won the election, thinking that her party might unify behind her, rather than half of them ruthlessly briefing against her from the minute HMQ was buried.
    No, her mistake was to assume the appetite for tax cuts favouring the wealthiest was as strong in 2022 as it had been in 1981 but the world has changed.

    The notion of "fairness" is now in the ascendant - cutting the taxes of the poorest is now seen as more acceptable and if anything policies aimed at getting more out of the wealthiest would now have greater support.
    I don’t think she did make that assumption. She realised many of her policies would make her unpopular in the short term (she said it many times) and was prepared to ride that out and fight an election on the results. Sadly, she didn't factor in de facto opposition from the BOE, the UK CS, the OBR, the IMF, the US, a nasty lot of backstabbers within the PCP - she needed to fight one at a time, not all at once on the battleground of Kwasi's somewhat flawed mini-budget.

    Personally I think the energy/fracking stuff should have been packaged up with the energy price guarantee and put through as an energy security bill before anything else. Then a Food security bill, THEN an economical security bill.
    This is revisionist nonsense. First, Liz Truss sidelined the bodies you name; what she did not foresee was causing a meltdown in the markets. Second, she was 110 per cent behind Kwasi's budget, of which she was lead author and even turned down Kwasi's advice to go more slowly (hence 110 per cent). Third, although she did have opponents in the party, that goes with the job; they were backbenchers not money market traders.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,958
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all




    He's probably not interested in western Ukraine, he wants the eastern half that used to be dominated by Russia.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,393

    Carnyx said:

    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all

    Did you need any special visa to cross the border?
    No. Nothing at all

    I actually have Press Accreditation from the Ukrainian army - meaning I can break curfew and go to combat zones (huzzah!) - but you don’t need anything at all. Just a UK passport and patience in dealing with transport delays. Book trains days ahead and arrive early etc

    Expect cancellations. Factor in flexibility

    I absolutely recommend any PBer to come. Bear witness. And lviv is incredible

    It’s quite tough as well. All the wounded men



    But jeez it puts everything in perspective. What the fuck are we moaning about in the UK? Cost of living crisis? Food banks? What a load of pathetic whining. We have grown fat and feeble

    We’re not all complaining; some of us are just working harder

    Im having my first day off in ten, and my second in nineteen. Monday to Saturday I worked sixty two hours

    Im making dinner for my parents tonight, the lamb and rhubarb stew with rice and an Ottolenghi cucumber salad. Waitrose ran out of rhubarb; I happened to see a neighbour on the way back who directed me to their allotment half filled with overgrown rhubarb!
    Rhubarb is the best. Crumble next?
    Or just stewed with some sugar, and served with

    (a) custard
    (b) ground rice pudding
    (c) ice cream
    (d) not too sour Greek yog
    or (e) cream

    c-e served with shortbread as a side nibble/crunch.

    I love rhubarb like that, especially as crumble with custard, but have never cooked a sweet rhubarb dish

    I first used it raw and salted in a salad last week, and now my second time cooking it in a savoury main course stew
    I just cut itup and heat it in a low heat in a lidded stainless steel or ceramic pan (not aluminium, I worry about the oxalic acid) with a couple of tablespoons of water as it generates its juice when softened. Very easy to put too much water in. Add some sugar once it's cooking and add more to taste once cool.

    Don't use it too old - you might have to peel off the outer stringly bits lengthwise if thick. But the thinner young stalks are fine.

    Some folk add spce - cinnamon? Ginger? can't remember - but I've never tried that.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,228
    What's more annoying than your train being cancelled?

    Your train being cancelled but still operating as empty coaching stock, so you get to see it whistling through the station non-stop.

    Am now on the next train, but connection out the window.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,475
    Leon said:

    @Miklosvar has a point on Rhodes. This does not sound “normal”


    “Greece mounted its largest-ever island evacuation this weekend, moving close to 19,000 people on Rhodes to escape wildfires that have prompted some tour operators to cancel flights to the popular destination.”

    https://www.ft.com/content/9c67eb16-931b-462c-9174-32245725da07

    However it could be bad luck

    I believe that Rhodes has a concentrated population. So a fire threatening the wrong place because of bad luck would lead to a large number of people being evacuated
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,318
    Things are going well in the UK I see.


  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    Leon said:

    @Miklosvar has a point on Rhodes. This does not sound “normal”

    “Greece mounted its largest-ever island evacuation this weekend, moving close to 19,000 people on Rhodes to escape wildfires that have prompted some tour operators to cancel flights to the popular destination.”

    https://www.ft.com/content/9c67eb16-931b-462c-9174-32245725da07

    It sounds abnormal - and downright scary.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,228

    Carnyx said:

    Phil said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all

    Did you need any special visa to cross the border?
    No. Nothing at all

    I actually have Press Accreditation from the Ukrainian army - meaning I can break curfew and go to combat zones (huzzah!) - but you don’t need anything at all. Just a UK passport and patience in dealing with transport delays. Book trains days ahead and arrive early etc

    Expect cancellations. Factor in flexibility

    I absolutely recommend any PBer to come. Bear witness. And lviv is incredible

    It’s quite tough as well. All the wounded men



    But jeez it puts everything in perspective. What the fuck are we moaning about in the UK? Cost of living crisis? Food banks? What a load of pathetic whining. We have grown fat and feeble

    We’re not all complaining; some of us are just working harder

    Im having my first day off in ten, and my second in nineteen. Monday to Saturday I worked sixty two hours

    Im making dinner for my parents tonight, the lamb and rhubarb stew with rice and an Ottolenghi cucumber salad. Waitrose ran out of rhubarb; I happened to see a neighbour on the way back who directed me to their allotment half filled with overgrown rhubarb!
    Rhubarb is the best. Crumble next?
    Or just stewed with some sugar, and served with

    (a) custard
    (b) ground rice pudding
    (c) ice cream
    (d) not too sour Greek yog
    or (e) cream

    c-e served with shortbread as a side nibble/crunch.

    I love rhubarb like that, especially as crumble with custard, but have never cooked a sweet rhubarb dish

    I first used it raw and salted in a salad last week, and now my second time cooking it in a savoury main course stew
    We stew rhubarb with date sugar. Pour on some cream or fake cream. Nice combo.
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517

    felix said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Carnyx said:

    Miklosvar said:

    felix said:

    Fishing said:

    Thank God common sense seems to be breaking slowly through on Net Zero, ULEZ and other green crap anyway. I can see this being the big popular revolt of the 2020s, like leaving the EU was for the 2010s.

    Half of Europe is on fire and the other half is flooded according to the news, so maybe green crap is not quite dea.d.
    Tells you everything about how crap the news is and sfs about weather and climate
    Are you saying that the whole of Rhodes catches fire every year and reporting it is just a passing fad? Are you not amazed by the photograph here, in peacetime Europe?

    https://www.theguardian.com/weather/2023/jul/22/more-than-1000-people-forced-to-flee-wildfires-on-greek-island-of-rhodes
    Some people haven't quite cottoned on yet ...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

    'Holidaymaker Emma Marsh said: 'We are currently in Rhodes - we landed today only to be told that our hotel has burnt down. No one from the airline informed us before we flew.";
    LOL, but I imagine the tour operators won't refund until the actual hotel booked has caught fire, so you just board the plane and hope a different part of Rhodes is where the problem is. I have made a rule, no advance bookings in the med June July August, but I don't have term dates to stick to
    I simply don't travel in the school holidays and don't go to the Med in midsummer as it is already too bloody hot. I had a pleasant time in the Baltics and Finland in June and I am next going away in September
    I fear the north Norwegian riviera still has some heavy lifting to do, however…
    This season has really pinpointed the dilemma we have for holidays in a warming Europe. There are very few short haul places now where you aren’t at a 50% risk of being in unpleasantly hot conditions, but can still be confident of good sunny warm weather.

    Northern Europe is still too unreliable. Southern Europe is a furnace more often than not. Central Europe now alternates between furnace and wet.

    North West Spain and Northern Portugal, Coastal Charente, and the high alpine regions of the Med and Spain are just about all that’s left.
    I can recommend Ukraine? Specifically, Lviv, where it is warm bright and sunny, with a 3% chance of missiles, and a light, pleasant, probably-not-radioactive breeze

    We sit outside and drink our кава, contentedly


    I'm looking forward to the photos of empty bottles of wine (one glass) from the front line in Bakhmut. :wink:
    Cut me some slack. I just got here

    I’ve already had some hairy moments - eg when the passport people found the Russian visa in my heavily stamped passport (I clean forgot my visit to St Petersburg and the Russian Arctic in 2019, or I would have used my other passport)

    Then we arrived at 2am during curfew. I have press accreditation from the Ukrainian MOD (they love flints here) which means I can break curfew - and go into combat zones! - but still a bit hairy

    It’s also true that love the Brits. The weary guy taking me to my 3am hotel room asked me dutifully “where are you from” and I told him and he turned and his eyes lit up and he said “Great Britain! Your country has really helped us!”

    I got a bit of a patriotic tingle. He was genuine. Apparently they love us and the Poles first, and the Americans are third and everyone else is Meh or Putin
    Ha, I knew it!

    Have fun, stay safe, and yes the Ukranians are lovely people who really don’t deserve what’s happening to them - and who really love the Brits!
    They also specifically admire Boris. It’s not imaginary. They can’t work out why we dumped him for a few parties

    Anyway. I am out for coffee and strudel. Woke up late. No bombs. Expect photos of wheatbeer
    Disappointing that people in Ukraine have such poor judgement on this. Ok Russian invasion bla bla but you'd have hoped they would have the nous and the bandwidth to follow the ins and outs of domestic British politics.
    Maybe at times the view from outside is more revealing than that on the ground. Why on earth should anyone in Ukraine be concerned with the ins and outs of UK domestic politics?
    It’s a scaling issue. They have had politicians who stole on the Putin scale, and tried to sell the whole country to a foreign power (Russia). People who were implicated in providing information to the Russian invaders. Real, full on treason.

    On that scale, an intern wheeling a fridge into No 10 is the size of an ant.
    One thing the Ukraine and Britain have in common is that both have had citizens of the USA as senior government ministers:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalie_Jaresko (finance minister)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson (when he was foreign minister)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,165
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all

    Did you need any special visa to cross the border?
    No. Nothing at all

    I actually have Press Accreditation from the Ukrainian army - meaning I can break curfew and go to combat zones (huzzah!) - but you don’t need anything at all. Just a UK passport and patience in dealing with transport delays. Book trains days ahead and arrive early etc

    Expect cancellations. Factor in flexibility

    I absolutely recommend any PBer to come. Bear witness. And lviv is incredible

    It’s quite tough as well. All the wounded men



    But jeez it puts everything in perspective. What the fuck are we moaning about in the UK? Cost of living crisis? Food banks? What a load of pathetic whining. We have grown fat and feeble

    We’re not all complaining; some of us are just working harder

    Im having my first day off in ten, and my second in nineteen. Monday to Saturday I worked sixty two hours

    Im making dinner for my parents tonight, the lamb and rhubarb stew with rice and an Ottolenghi cucumber salad. Waitrose ran out of rhubarb; I happened to see a neighbour on the way back who directed me to their allotment half filled with overgrown rhubarb!
    That’s a hard job. Respect

    I’m thinking more of the guardian front page mindset. Which is endless headlines whinging about this that and the next. From racist flower arranging to our “practically fascist government” to the catastrophic lack of kindergarten slots in
    Yorkshire

    It’s all so spineless and dreary and lifeless and enfeebled.

    And how dare we call it a “cost of living CRISIS”. 50p on eggs at Aldi is not a frigging crisis. 10,000 young men dead is a crisis. We have debased the language of alarm
    Absolutely. This snivelling wretch for example.




  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,159

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all

    Did you need any special visa to cross the border?
    No. Nothing at all

    I actually have Press Accreditation from the Ukrainian army - meaning I can break curfew and go to combat zones (huzzah!) - but you don’t need anything at all. Just a UK passport and patience in dealing with transport delays. Book trains days ahead and arrive early etc

    Expect cancellations. Factor in flexibility

    I absolutely recommend any PBer to come. Bear witness. And lviv is incredible

    It’s quite tough as well. All the wounded men



    But jeez it puts everything in perspective. What the fuck are we moaning about in the UK? Cost of living crisis? Food banks? What a load of pathetic whining. We have grown fat and feeble

    We’re not all complaining; some of us are just working harder

    Im having my first day off in ten, and my second in nineteen. Monday to Saturday I worked sixty two hours

    Im making dinner for my parents tonight, the lamb and rhubarb stew with rice and an Ottolenghi cucumber salad. Waitrose ran out of rhubarb; I happened to see a neighbour on the way back who directed me to their allotment half filled with overgrown rhubarb!
    That’s a hard job. Respect

    I’m thinking more of the guardian front page mindset. Which is endless headlines whinging about this that and the next. From racist flower arranging to our “practically fascist government” to the catastrophic lack of kindergarten slots in
    Yorkshire

    It’s all so spineless and dreary and lifeless and enfeebled.

    And how dare we call it a “cost of living CRISIS”. 50p on eggs at Aldi is not a frigging crisis. 10,000 young men dead is a crisis. We have debased the language of alarm
    Absolutely. This snivelling wretch for example.




    We don’t work enough in Europe due to our foolish fixation with enjoying ourselves….

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/europeans-poorer-inflation-economy-255eb629?mod=e2fb&fbclid=IwAR16O1exRqNaN0i1gT-IIzXAQ7ncCEc-caYFNedQsQqs-3m53vmfKXsb3co
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all

    Did you need any special visa to cross the border?
    No. Nothing at all

    I actually have Press Accreditation from the Ukrainian army - meaning I can break curfew and go to combat zones (huzzah!) - but you don’t need anything at all. Just a UK passport and patience in dealing with transport delays. Book trains days ahead and arrive early etc

    Expect cancellations. Factor in flexibility

    I absolutely recommend any PBer to come. Bear witness. And lviv is incredible

    It’s quite tough as well. All the wounded men



    But jeez it puts everything in perspective. What the fuck are we moaning about in the UK? Cost of living crisis? Food banks? What a load of pathetic whining. We have grown fat and feeble

    We’re not all complaining; some of us are just working harder

    Im having my first day off in ten, and my second in nineteen. Monday to Saturday I worked sixty two hours

    Im making dinner for my parents tonight, the lamb and rhubarb stew with rice and an Ottolenghi cucumber salad. Waitrose ran out of rhubarb; I happened to see a neighbour on the way back who directed me to their allotment half filled with overgrown rhubarb!
    That’s a hard job. Respect

    I’m thinking more of the guardian front page mindset. Which is endless headlines whinging about this that and the next. From racist flower arranging to our “practically fascist government” to the catastrophic lack of kindergarten slots in
    Yorkshire

    It’s all so spineless and dreary and lifeless and enfeebled.

    And how dare we call it a “cost of living CRISIS”. 50p on eggs at Aldi is not a frigging crisis. 10,000 young men dead is a crisis. We have debased the language of alarm
    Absolutely. This snivelling wretch for example.




    I like Dan Hannan. But that article does him no favours, in context. I noticed it earlier and winced. Tone-deaf
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,415
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all

    Did you need any special visa to cross the border?
    No. Nothing at all

    I actually have Press Accreditation from the Ukrainian army - meaning I can break curfew and go to combat zones (huzzah!) - but you don’t need anything at all. Just a UK passport and patience in dealing with transport delays. Book trains days ahead and arrive early etc

    Expect cancellations. Factor in flexibility

    I absolutely recommend any PBer to come. Bear witness. And lviv is incredible

    It’s quite tough as well. All the wounded men



    But jeez it puts everything in perspective. What the fuck are we moaning about in the UK? Cost of living crisis? Food banks? What a load of pathetic whining. We have grown fat and feeble

    We’re not all complaining; some of us are just working harder

    Im having my first day off in ten, and my second in nineteen. Monday to Saturday I worked sixty two hours

    Im making dinner for my parents tonight, the lamb and rhubarb stew with rice and an Ottolenghi cucumber salad. Waitrose ran out of rhubarb; I happened to see a neighbour on the way back who directed me to their allotment half filled with overgrown rhubarb!
    That’s a hard job. Respect

    I’m thinking more of the guardian front page mindset. Which is endless headlines whinging about this that and the next. From racist flower arranging to our “practically fascist government” to the catastrophic lack of kindergarten slots in
    Yorkshire

    It’s all so spineless and dreary and lifeless and enfeebled.

    And how dare we call it a “cost of living CRISIS”. 50p on eggs at Aldi is not a frigging crisis. 10,000 young men dead is a crisis. We have debased the language of alarm
    Absolutely. This snivelling wretch for example.




    I like Dan Hannan. But that article does him no favours, in context. I noticed it earlier and winced. Tone-deaf
    I hold no brief for Daniel Hannan (or Vorbis as I used to call him) but if we are to judge his text it would be better to read it first. You can find it here: https://web.archive.org/web/20230722223522/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/22/britain-is-now-a-poor-nation-this-is-our-number-one-issue/
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all

    Did you need any special visa to cross the border?
    No. Nothing at all

    I actually have Press Accreditation from the Ukrainian army - meaning I can break curfew and go to combat zones (huzzah!) - but you don’t need anything at all. Just a UK passport and patience in dealing with transport delays. Book trains days ahead and arrive early etc

    Expect cancellations. Factor in flexibility

    I absolutely recommend any PBer to come. Bear witness. And lviv is incredible

    It’s quite tough as well. All the wounded men



    But jeez it puts everything in perspective. What the fuck are we moaning about in the UK? Cost of living crisis? Food banks? What a load of pathetic whining. We have grown fat and feeble

    We’re not all complaining; some of us are just working harder

    Im having my first day off in ten, and my second in nineteen. Monday to Saturday I worked sixty two hours

    Im making dinner for my parents tonight, the lamb and rhubarb stew with rice and an Ottolenghi cucumber salad. Waitrose ran out of rhubarb; I happened to see a neighbour on the way back who directed me to their allotment half filled with overgrown rhubarb!
    That’s a hard job. Respect

    I’m thinking more of the guardian front page mindset. Which is endless headlines whinging about this that and the next. From racist flower arranging to our “practically fascist government” to the catastrophic lack of kindergarten slots in
    Yorkshire

    It’s all so spineless and dreary and lifeless and enfeebled.

    And how dare we call it a “cost of living CRISIS”. 50p on eggs at Aldi is not a frigging crisis. 10,000 young men dead is a crisis. We have debased the language of alarm
    Is it just lefty issues that are rendered trivial by the grand perspective that war brings?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all

    Did you need any special visa to cross the border?
    No. Nothing at all

    I actually have Press Accreditation from the Ukrainian army - meaning I can break curfew and go to combat zones (huzzah!) - but you don’t need anything at all. Just a UK passport and patience in dealing with transport delays. Book trains days ahead and arrive early etc

    Expect cancellations. Factor in flexibility

    I absolutely recommend any PBer to come. Bear witness. And lviv is incredible

    It’s quite tough as well. All the wounded men



    But jeez it puts everything in perspective. What the fuck are we moaning about in the UK? Cost of living crisis? Food banks? What a load of pathetic whining. We have grown fat and feeble

    We’re not all complaining; some of us are just working harder

    Im having my first day off in ten, and my second in nineteen. Monday to Saturday I worked sixty two hours

    Im making dinner for my parents tonight, the lamb and rhubarb stew with rice and an Ottolenghi cucumber salad. Waitrose ran out of rhubarb; I happened to see a neighbour on the way back who directed me to their allotment half filled with overgrown rhubarb!
    That’s a hard job. Respect

    I’m thinking more of the guardian front page mindset. Which is endless headlines whinging about this that and the next. From racist flower arranging to our “practically fascist government” to the catastrophic lack of kindergarten slots in
    Yorkshire

    It’s all so spineless and dreary and lifeless and enfeebled.

    And how dare we call it a “cost of living CRISIS”. 50p on eggs at Aldi is not a frigging crisis. 10,000 young men dead is a crisis. We have debased the language of alarm
    Is it just lefty issues that are rendered trivial by the grand perspective that war brings?
    The left has the greater tendency to whine these days. Or at least their whining is more audible. Woke is just one long whine about “unfairness” in essence

    But yes, the right can be equally wanky. That article
    from Dan Hannan is a case in point
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all

    Did you need any special visa to cross the border?
    No. Nothing at all

    I actually have Press Accreditation from the Ukrainian army - meaning I can break curfew and go to combat zones (huzzah!) - but you don’t need anything at all. Just a UK passport and patience in dealing with transport delays. Book trains days ahead and arrive early etc

    Expect cancellations. Factor in flexibility

    I absolutely recommend any PBer to come. Bear witness. And lviv is incredible

    It’s quite tough as well. All the wounded men



    But jeez it puts everything in perspective. What the fuck are we moaning about in the UK? Cost of living crisis? Food banks? What a load of pathetic whining. We have grown fat and feeble

    We’re not all complaining; some of us are just working harder

    Im having my first day off in ten, and my second in nineteen. Monday to Saturday I worked sixty two hours

    Im making dinner for my parents tonight, the lamb and rhubarb stew with rice and an Ottolenghi cucumber salad. Waitrose ran out of rhubarb; I happened to see a neighbour on the way back who directed me to their allotment half filled with overgrown rhubarb!
    That’s a hard job. Respect

    I’m thinking more of the guardian front page mindset. Which is endless headlines whinging about this that and the next. From racist flower arranging to our “practically fascist government” to the catastrophic lack of kindergarten slots in
    Yorkshire

    It’s all so spineless and dreary and lifeless and enfeebled.

    And how dare we call it a “cost of living CRISIS”. 50p on eggs at Aldi is not a frigging crisis. 10,000 young men dead is a crisis. We have debased the language of alarm
    I don't recall anyone at the Spectator saying that kind of thing at the time of the genocide in Rwanda.

    F***ing journalists, all thinking they're more honourable than the rest of them. Except maybe at the Scum.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679

    Leon said:

    @Miklosvar has a point on Rhodes. This does not sound “normal”


    “Greece mounted its largest-ever island evacuation this weekend, moving close to 19,000 people on Rhodes to escape wildfires that have prompted some tour operators to cancel flights to the popular destination.”

    https://www.ft.com/content/9c67eb16-931b-462c-9174-32245725da07

    #ClimateChangeIsReal maybe?

    Which is why we need policies that aren’t regressive taxation. Note that the climate change levy on energy bills isn’t a problem because it is *equal*. Well, kinda. The rich have the best insulated homes, of course.
    Green New Deal funded by Wealth Tax then. Done.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,031
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Old Lviv is ridiculously lovely. Like a kind of Ruthenian Florence. But with more wounded men and sandbags

    Ukrainians are not going to give up unless Putin kills them all

    Did you need any special visa to cross the border?
    No. Nothing at all

    I actually have Press Accreditation from the Ukrainian army - meaning I can break curfew and go to combat zones (huzzah!) - but you don’t need anything at all. Just a UK passport and patience in dealing with transport delays. Book trains days ahead and arrive early etc

    Expect cancellations. Factor in flexibility

    I absolutely recommend any PBer to come. Bear witness. And lviv is incredible

    It’s quite tough as well. All the wounded men



    But jeez it puts everything in perspective. What the fuck are we moaning about in the UK? Cost of living crisis? Food banks? What a load of pathetic whining. We have grown fat and feeble

    We’re not all complaining; some of us are just working harder

    Im having my first day off in ten, and my second in nineteen. Monday to Saturday I worked sixty two hours

    Im making dinner for my parents tonight, the lamb and rhubarb stew with rice and an Ottolenghi cucumber salad. Waitrose ran out of rhubarb; I happened to see a neighbour on the way back who directed me to their allotment half filled with overgrown rhubarb!
    That’s a hard job. Respect

    I’m thinking more of the guardian front page mindset. Which is endless headlines whinging about this that and the next. From racist flower arranging to our “practically fascist government” to the catastrophic lack of kindergarten slots in
    Yorkshire

    It’s all so spineless and dreary and lifeless and enfeebled.

    And how dare we call it a “cost of living CRISIS”. 50p on eggs at Aldi is not a frigging crisis. 10,000 young men dead is a crisis. We have debased the language of alarm
    Absolutely. This snivelling wretch for example.




    I like Dan Hannan. But that article does him no favours, in context. I noticed it earlier and winced. Tone-deaf
    I hold no brief for Daniel Hannan (or Vorbis as I used to call him) but if we are to judge his text it would be better to read it first. You can find it here: https://web.archive.org/web/20230722223522/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/22/britain-is-now-a-poor-nation-this-is-our-number-one-issue/
    Yes, the actual piece bears little resemblance to the headline. It says more about the Telegraph fishing for clicks, than about Hannan.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,888

    I actually think changing leader again would be disastrous for the Tories. Not because of Sunak but just that they would be making themselves look ridiculous, or even more so than at present.

    I think Sunak is clearly safe until after GE day. While lots of Tory MPs are mad and want a change every 3 minutes, no serious candidate will want to inherit the poisoned chalice now, when they can inherit an empty chalice after the GE and detox the party without having to run the country. And one more unserious candidate, and they will face the 'three strikes and you are out' rule.

    BTW in a sensible world, Cameron would still be PM (unless gracefully losing in the 2020 election to a moderate Labour leader) and a massive centrist alliance of Con/Lab/SNP and LD would have us in a Swiss/Norway relationship with the EU. We would be getting ready for a boring election on 'which competent centrist do you prefer' in 2025.
This discussion has been closed.