@kinabalu is not a Russian bot just because you disagree with him you know.
No, he's a Putin apologist because he trivialises the war crimes happening in Ukraine equating it to just "7 deaths" and thinks its better to have Russians killing Ukrainians than other Russians.
I haven't seen him say there are only 7 deaths in Ukraine. All I've seen him say is that he'd rather needless lives were not lost in a bloody civil war. I tend to agree with that POV if it can be avoided.
I think Putin is a thoroughly wicked man but just because he is, it doesn't mean I'd like to see Russians killed.
War is tragic - and that doesn't excuse any of his actions nor all the people he has killed in Ukraine, before I get accused of being a Russian stooge too.
Far better they are killing each other than murdering Ukranians, especially women and children.
Mary Ilyushina @maryilyushina · 23m In the end, Muscovites got an extra day off on Monday, Twitter got a bazillion memes and Prigozhin... got a million followers on Telegram and no clear exit strategy after Putin called him a traitor and FSB has issued a warrant?
Was this all a Kremlin black op, designed to make Vlad look omnipotent?
It hasn't done that though. He went on TV to declare, essentially, that he'd lost control, Wagner kept going, and now the Belarussians have had to bail him out.
Hardly. Lukashenka is an intermediary precisely because he has no power in Russia, I think. Whoever comes out on top, he’s utterly dependent on them, so unlike any Russian, he can be trusted.
Prigozhin’s failure, if that’s what it proves to be, is that no one supported him - though everyone sitting on their hands to see what happened gave him a certain amount of time. The one thing it shows is how weak Putin’s position has become; back in the day, the hot dog seller wouldn’t have made it past the border.
Putin is out to 300 for the 2024 presidential elec on smarkets.
That is ridiculous. Prigozhin doesn't have enough troops and those Russian forces that have tipped their hand have gone to Putin. How fast can one open a smarkets account? Is Shadsy on drugs?
It doesn’t matter if Putin wins this one - he’s been exposed as being weak. There’s likely to be another, better organised & larger putsch from within the army in the next year after this even if Putin stays in post.
There was always a Wizard of Oz element to Putin's power, which is why those in the West who portrayed him as having the ability to swing elections at will have always been amongst the foremost useful idiots. It was they who did the most to discredit democracy and undermine confidence in our own systems.
Next you’ll be telling us sharing Putin’s anti-woke obsession is another characteristic of the foremost useful idiots.
Woke vs anti-woke is a wholly internal Western culture war. Putin is only taking sides to try to gain some relevance and pose as an alternative to US dominance, but it's all artificial.
So those recruiting Putin to their side as an anti-woke tribune defending the family and Judeo-Christian values ARE foremost among the useful idiots? I might quibble with useful..
No, Putin is clinging on to their coat-tails rather than pulling their strings. They are not useful idiots but simply participating in democratic politics as is their right. The idiots are those who brand them Putinists and try to delegitimise them on that basis, because that is what discredits democracy.
It must take a superhuman effort to avert your eyes from the actualité. I suppose the groundwork has to be laid for a scamper in the opposite direction on the road to Damascus.
The politicisation of support for Ukraine in the US has indeed been an unfortunate consequence of using Putin as a scapegoat for Trump winning the election.
Can I help you out of that rabbit hole you've just fallen into?
Putin assisted and allegedly, via Deutsche Bank, bankrolled Trump in 2016 in order to destabilise the West and the US in particular. Trump duly obliged, coming within a cigarette paper of a coup on January 6th 2020. I am convinced Trump and the Republican's emboldened Putin to invade Ukraine.
Based on that post it's you who has fallen into a rabbit hole. The theory that Trump and the Republicans emboldened Putin to invade Ukraine has the slight problem that he waited until after having a summit meeting with Biden and a Democrat administration before invading. Not to mention that his initial incursion and annexation of Crimea happened while Obama was in power.
Putin would have invaded without Trump, but Trump and his followers were "useful idiots" for Putin in the same way as Corbyn and his ilk are too.
Lord Lebedev says hello.
What nonsense and you should know better than that. Britain has been a consistent and steadfast ally of Ukraine. Don't be silly.
That the Conservatives have taken millions in donations from Russian sources is a matter of public record. That the civil service and apparently ministers took the right decisions re: Ukraine is not the same as saying that they took the right decisions concerning Russia. There is certainly legitimate questions to answer The same applies to Alex Salmond and Nigel Farage and their relationship with RT. To deny that their are legitimate questions is complacent and dangerous.
That a large amount of this money from "Russian sources" is also from Ukrainian sources and has been from people lobbying against Putin and in favour of giving more support to Ukraine is also a matter of public record. There is a lot of xenophobia lurking behind claims of foreign influence in British politics.
If this "Russian money" was supposed to buy influence, then it really has had the worst return on investment imaginable.
It did buy influence, right up until Putin decided to invade Ukraine in size & burnt all the relationships his security services had spent years cultivating.
Nice try, Donald, but your master has already ushered in a real chamber of horrors both in Russia and in Ukraine. Real horrors, not your fictional, imagined horrors.
And 50m dead Russians is just as nonsensical as diminishing Ukraine's losses to supposedly just 7 Ukrainians dead rather than the plethora of war crimes and unspeakable horrors that have actually happened.
I don't know what happened to you, Donald, but your moral compass has been destroyed in making excuses and belittling the unspeakable horrors that have actually occurred in the real world in the past 16 months and longer.
PB's at its worst when we start slagging each off about every turn of phrase. And what's this Donald stuff?
@kinabalu is not a Russian bot just because you disagree with him you know.
No, he's a Putin apologist because he trivialises the war crimes happening in Ukraine equating it to just "7 deaths" and thinks its better to have Russians killing Ukrainians than other Russians.
I haven't seen him say there are only 7 deaths in Ukraine. All I've seen him say is that he'd rather needless lives were not lost in a bloody civil war. I tend to agree with that POV if it can be avoided.
I think Putin is a thoroughly wicked man but just because he is, it doesn't mean I'd like to see Russians killed.
War is tragic - and that doesn't excuse any of his actions nor all the people he has killed in Ukraine, before I get accused of being a Russian stooge too.
Far better they are killing each other than murdering Ukranians, especially women and children.
But better still that nobody is killing anybody...
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
I have plenty of heart for the victims of Moscow's aggression.
Which includes plenty of every day Russians who are repressed and sent to the meat grinder in order to support Moscow's regime.
The collapse of Russia as a unitary state would be great news for the world, and great news for ordinary Russians.
Why are you so heartless as to oppose that?
But a 'full blown civil war in Russia' - your words - really isn't something to hope for. It'd be terrible in and of itself plus nobody can model where it leads with any confidence at all.
A full-blown civil war would be the second-best option possible, behind a rapid victory for one side or the other who immediately decides to withdraw Russian forces from Ukraine as a result.
Given that Putin launched this war, and Prigozhin willingly smashed Bakhmut to pieces over several months, I don't have much hope for the ideal scenario. A full-blown civil war is a more likely path to Russian troops leaving Ukraine, as they are pulled back to fight on one side or the other. And then Ukraine will know peace, and can start the long process of reconstruction and dealing with the grief of its losses.
So, yeah, I'm pretty down with hoping for a Russian civil war actually. If Putin does do a runner and Prigozhin takes over without a fight, and simply continues the war in Ukraine for more months of violence and destruction, I don't see that as a preferable outcome.
The potential carnage from that scenario is massive and we have no clue where it would lead. If a bloody disintegration of Russia were to happen, with various 'big man' psychopaths trading atrocities, I'd be hoping the resulting horrors are limited to Russia, that whatever sort of Russia emerges from it is better than this one, and of course that it leads to the liberation of Ukraine, but there's no way on earth I'm hoping it happens in the first place.
Imagine you have the choice between two different futures in four weeks time.
In scenario 1, Prigozhin's rebellion is rapidly defeated, or rapidly victorious, and the Russian army remains fighting in Ukraine. Ukrainian cities continue to face bombardment from Russian missiles and artillery shells. The war continues. The Ukrainian counterattack makes progress, but inevitably there are many casualties, both Ukrainian and Russian.
In scenario 2, Prigozhin's rebellion makes some progress, but Putin fights on. There is fighting in and around Moscow and millions of civilians flee. Russian army units are redeployed from Ukraine and declare for either side, leading to heavy fighting across south-western Russia. Ukraine liberates its territory, and the war with Russia comes to an end. The bombardment of Ukrainian cities is brought to an end, and Ukrainian civilians are freed from Russian occupation. Ukraine can begin the massive task of reconstruction, mine-clearing and grieving. Many Ukrainian soldiers are able to return to their families. Boris Johnson visits Ukraine and takes selfies with Zelenskyy in Mariupol.
Surely scenario 2 is preferable to scenario 1?
Hmm, very probably. But you've left it hanging a bit. Where's that Russian civil war going? If you promise me it doesn't trigger more horrors than those we're saving in Ukraine you might have a deal. Can you?
You can't promise that a continuation of the Russian war in Ukraine won't result in further horrors, like the destruction of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant. So, yes, there are terrible uncertainties in both future scenarios.
So concentrate on what we know. A civil war in Russia will end the war in Ukraine. That's a good trade in my view.
I can't promise that. That's the point. It's not a trade, as in a chess match or something, it's a development with unknowable and potentially cataclysmic consequences. To go back to where we started - the notion of actively hoping for a 'full blown civil war in Russia'. To me 'full blown civil war' sounds utterly horrendous, both for the carnage and chaos it would cause in Russia and the potential for overspill. It's just not a 'hoping for' type of event.
I don't believe you're truly hoping for it either. What you want to see is just enough internal shit in Russia to get them to quit Ukraine and not a penny more. I'd like to see that too but it depends on how much 'shit' it takes. I'm certainly not about to 'hope' for the ruination and collapse of Russia, or the deaths of millions of Russian people. Putin is 100% to blame, he started this war, but I don't feel the suffering of Russians counts as nothing compared to Ukrainians.
Your apologia for Russian fascism is truly disturbing and betrays a lack of sense and humanity.
Ukrainians are the victims in this, not Russia. Seeing a continuation of war crimes in Ukraine is not something to desire, to avoid a collapse of Russia.
Even Russia quitting Ukraine and "not a penny more" leaves Putin's fascist regime in charge of Russia and repressing Russia's people.
A relatively peaceful overthrow of Putin is more desirable than a protracted civil war, sure, but either of a simply overthrow or a civil war are infinitely preferable to seeing Russia continue invading other nations.
My revulsion for Putin's aggression towards Ukraine and his sinister repressive regime hasn't led me to not give a shit about the suffering of Russian people. If that's what's happened with you, I'd suggest it's you with the problem.
Other than Ukrainians (perhaps even more than Ukrainians) it is the Russian people that have suffered the most from Putin's regime.
If you think that Putin's regime remaining stable and in power unchallenged is the best thing for the Russian people, then it is you with the problem.
Other than Ukraine, it is Russians themselves that stand the most to gain from fighting to oust Putin.
Ah good news all round then since I don't think that!
(best this one dies with PT, I think)
You both denied Russians fighting Russians was better than Russians fighting Ukrainians, and you said you want no more than Russia out of Ukraine, so yes you do.
What's your next excuse for your apologia? That you think there'd be a peaceful transfer of power at the Russian elections?
I said it depends. You said it doesn't because Ukraine is the innocent victim. So for you Russians killing 10m Russians is preferable to Russians killing 7 Ukrainians. Crazy view. Even crazier to call anybody not sharing it a Putin apologist. Get a grip.
As for where Russia goes after they quit Ukraine, who knows, one must hope for the best. Eg a genuine democracy, free and fair elections, a landslide for the Russian. equivalent of Sir Ed Davey. See, I'm no 'realist'. Hang that.
Russia has killed tens of thousands of Ukrainians and hundreds of thousands of Russians too in this war, committed genocidal acts, made millions homeless and committed war crimes on a scale not seen since the Nazis in World War Two.
To conflate that with "killing 7 Ukrainians" is the crazy view and anyone who could utter those words is absolutely and unequivocally a Putin apologist.
Yes, Russians killing each other is better than them killing Ukrainians. No ifs, no buts, no equivocation.
I didn't conflate it. The example was to show the absurdity of your vacuous posturing.
Whatever, Donald.
There is no absurdity and no vacuity except your excuses.
Ukraine hasn't lost 7 people in this conflict, Donald. Stop praising Putin's "genius".
You seem to be losing it completely now. I think I preferred the vacuous posturing. Can we get back to that?
Sorry Donald, I have no respect for your apologism of Putin.
If after all the war crimes, all the genocide, all the atrocities and all the fatalities you still won't accept that Russians fighting Ukrainians is worse than Russians fighting Russians, then your moral compass is completely destroyed.
It depends on scale, nature and outcomes. Eg just to illustrate not a literal prediction: a Russian civil war kills 50m Russians and lays waste to the country and ushers in a chamber of horrors there, but it hastens the liberation of Ukraine. That's only a no brainer good thing to somebody lacking one. A working moral compass will not consider Russian lives to be worthless purely because Putin is an evil dictator who has unleashed terror on Ukraine.
An odd argument. Because it does not look to the future.
You are suggesting that the Second World War should not have been fought, because a lot of Germans were killed?
I'm more arguing it's facile to say something is good because it gets rid of a bad.
Eg WW2 got rid of Hitler. Does this mean WW2 was a good thing? Not really.
Eg person in 1938:
"God I hope we have a massive bloody global conflict which ends with the defeat of Nazi Germany and Hitler dead."
Was this all a Kremlin black op, designed to make Vlad look omnipotent?
It hasn't done that though. He went on TV to declare, essentially, that he'd lost control, Wagner kept going, and now the Belarussians have had to bail him out.
Hardly. Lukashenka is an intermediary precisely because he has no power in Russia, I think. Whoever comes out on top, he’s utterly dependent on them, so unlike any Russian, he can be trusted.
I wouldn't agree with that.
Indeed, after he issued signals against nuclear weapions last year, the official rhetoric changed.
@kinabalu is not a Russian bot just because you disagree with him you know.
No, he's a Putin apologist because he trivialises the war crimes happening in Ukraine equating it to just "7 deaths" and thinks its better to have Russians killing Ukrainians than other Russians.
I haven't seen him say there are only 7 deaths in Ukraine. All I've seen him say is that he'd rather needless lives were not lost in a bloody civil war. I tend to agree with that POV if it can be avoided.
I think Putin is a thoroughly wicked man but just because he is, it doesn't mean I'd like to see Russians killed.
War is tragic - and that doesn't excuse any of his actions nor all the people he has killed in Ukraine, before I get accused of being a Russian stooge too.
Far better they are killing each other than murdering Ukranians, especially women and children.
Was this all a Kremlin black op, designed to make Vlad look omnipotent?
It hasn't done that though. He went on TV to declare, essentially, that he'd lost control, Wagner kept going, and now the Belarussians have had to bail him out.
Hardly. Lukashenka is an intermediary precisely because he has no power in Russia, I think. Whoever comes out on top, he’s utterly dependent on them, so unlike any Russian, he can be trusted.
I'm sure he does have no power in Russia, that wasn't the point - the point was there is no scenario in which armed convoys rolling up the motorway and the President declaring an emergency due to a mercenary company going rogue, makes the president look powerful just because the mercenaries then pulled back.
Whatever happens now, this has marked a turning point in Russia and in the war.
Putin is weak enough that a mercenary chief has been able to march of Moscow despite a warrant for his arrest and walk free.
Vlad needs to start checking out retirement villas. It could be tomorrow, next week or in 3 months’ time, but he has lost control and he is on his way out.
Fuck, looks like it’s back to conversations about Trans and Brexit and maybe the odd UFO until the next (men’s) ashes starts. Praying for a coup somewhere else overnight.
Kerensky lasted a whole seven weeks after the Kornilov affair.
And it's widely rumoured he ordered it himself.
Let's assume Putin survives the weekend. That looks a safe assumption now, although given the panic we saw earlier it hasn't been all day.
He now looks weak, indecisive, cowardly, stupid and despised.
It's just become much more plausible for another member of his inner circle to remove him.
Keep an eye on Shoygu. He must have been unnerved by events. He might be wondering if things would be better if he were in control of them.
My fragmented 'knowledge' of Putin elites from cursory reading online is that Shoigu is useful because he has no base of his own, and his is one of those who has no future without Putin in power.
Of course, people start out that way and situations can evolve, but it does seem as an outsider that Putin has successfull managed things such that no one has a clear idea who might be a successor. His chosen underline to be President when he ostensibly stepped back for a few years doesn't seem to be talked about in that vein.
The Wagner troops are apparently turning around and heading away from Moscow, but it’s a stretch to thing they’ll be back over the border into Ukraine by tomorrow morning, fighting for Putin as if nothing happened - and in the meantime, the defenders there have a massive break.
The Wagner troops are apparently turning around and heading away from Moscow, but it’s a stretch to thing they’ll be back over the border into Ukraine by tomorrow morning, fighting for Putin as if nothing happened - and in the meantime, the defenders there have a massive break.
I hope this doesn't fall into the "IT'S A TRAP!" plotline.
Nice try, Donald, but your master has already ushered in a real chamber of horrors both in Russia and in Ukraine. Real horrors, not your fictional, imagined horrors.
And 50m dead Russians is just as nonsensical as diminishing Ukraine's losses to supposedly just 7 Ukrainians dead rather than the plethora of war crimes and unspeakable horrors that have actually happened.
I don't know what happened to you, Donald, but your moral compass has been destroyed in making excuses and belittling the unspeakable horrors that have actually occurred in the real world in the past 16 months and longer.
PB's at its worst when we start slagging each off about every turn of phrase.
Fuck, looks like it’s back to conversations about Trans and Brexit and maybe the odd UFO until the next (men’s) ashes starts. Praying for a coup somewhere else overnight.
The Wagner troops are apparently turning around and heading away from Moscow, but it’s a stretch to thing they’ll be back over the border into Ukraine by tomorrow morning, fighting for Putin as if nothing happened - and in the meantime, the defenders there have a massive break.
Some thinking was that due to local supplies etc any impact would not have been felt for a few days at any rate, in terms of supplies etc. Shame there was not a longer period messing things up.
This is the sort of situation where in a vacuum of information, you coan set the agenda by perception.
If Lukashenko were to issue a statement now saying that he was at the head of a new Russian-Belarussian Union, rather than Putin, he would be widely believed, because he's set the agenda today.
Fuck, looks like it’s back to conversations about Trans and Brexit and maybe the odd UFO until the next (men’s) ashes starts. Praying for a coup somewhere else overnight.
Fuck, looks like it’s back to conversations about Trans and Brexit and maybe the odd UFO until the next (men’s) ashes starts. Praying for a coup somewhere else overnight.
I don’t think we’ll have long to wait before the next twist in this story.
@kinabalu is not a Russian bot just because you disagree with him you know.
No, he's a Putin apologist because he trivialises the war crimes happening in Ukraine equating it to just "7 deaths" and thinks its better to have Russians killing Ukrainians than other Russians.
I haven't seen him say there are only 7 deaths in Ukraine. All I've seen him say is that he'd rather needless lives were not lost in a bloody civil war. I tend to agree with that POV if it can be avoided.
I think Putin is a thoroughly wicked man but just because he is, it doesn't mean I'd like to see Russians killed.
War is tragic - and that doesn't excuse any of his actions nor all the people he has killed in Ukraine, before I get accused of being a Russian stooge too.
Far better they are killing each other than murdering Ukranians, especially women and children.
But better still that nobody is killing anybody...
Fuck, looks like it’s back to conversations about Trans and Brexit and maybe the odd UFO until the next (men’s) ashes starts. Praying for a coup somewhere else overnight.
You can always over-analyse the Opinium VI poll due at 8pm.
@kinabalu is not a Russian bot just because you disagree with him you know.
No, he's a Putin apologist because he trivialises the war crimes happening in Ukraine equating it to just "7 deaths" and thinks its better to have Russians killing Ukrainians than other Russians.
I haven't seen him say there are only 7 deaths in Ukraine. All I've seen him say is that he'd rather needless lives were not lost in a bloody civil war. I tend to agree with that POV if it can be avoided.
I think Putin is a thoroughly wicked man but just because he is, it doesn't mean I'd like to see Russians killed.
War is tragic - and that doesn't excuse any of his actions nor all the people he has killed in Ukraine, before I get accused of being a Russian stooge too.
Far better they are killing each other than murdering Ukranians, especially women and children.
But better still that nobody is killing anybody...
Absolutely but highly unlikely unfortunately.
One of Putin or Prigozhin pretty damn soon for a start.
Fuck, looks like it’s back to conversations about Trans and Brexit and maybe the odd UFO until the next (men’s) ashes starts. Praying for a coup somewhere else overnight.
This is the sort of situation where in a vacuum of information, you coan set the agenda by perception.
If Lukashenko were to issue a statement now saying that he was at the head of a new Russian-Belarussian Union, rather than Putin, he would be widely believed, because he's set the agenda today.
What's the deal with you and Lukashenko?
Most of the rest of the world sees Lukashenko as a homunculus of Russia, propped up by Russian money and military support. Why do you think he's poised to start running the show?
Surely there would be at least a bazillion people in the Kremlin who thought they had a better claim to do so than some weak President of Belarus.
So, my takeaways from a day spent in the Royal Enclosure at Ascot. Morning suits are stupidly hot in humid weather and their interpretation of the dress code when it comes to ladies’ hats is incredibly liberal. Also don’t take tips from me.
I admit I don't have a clue what's going on in Russia, but that's never been a barrier to everyone pontificating on PB.com, so here's my two cents.
This is a mutiny, not a coup, yet. Prigozhin would rather be a warlord than a president. If he shows up in Moscow with 200 trucks and a thousand soldiers then what? He doesn't appear to have the apparatus of the state to support him, yet.
Fuck, looks like it’s back to conversations about Trans and Brexit and maybe the odd UFO until the next (men’s) ashes starts. Praying for a coup somewhere else overnight.
I admit I don't have a clue what's going on in Russia, but that's never been a barrier to everyone pontificating on PB.com, so here's my two cents.
This is a mutiny, not a coup, yet. Prigozhin would rather be a warlord than a president. If he shows up in Moscow with 200 trucks and a thousand soldiers then what? He doesn't appear to have the apparatus of the state to support him, yet.
The interesting question is whether he had reason to think he might have by the time he got there. Did one faction or another nearly back him, and if so why? What’s the Russian medium term analysis on Ukraine.
Fuck, looks like it’s back to conversations about Trans and Brexit and maybe the odd UFO until the next (men’s) ashes starts. Praying for a coup somewhere else overnight.
At least with the Ashes we can watch it for ourselves and know for sure what the score is and how it's going.
Despite all the armchair pontificating going on today about events in Russia/Ukraine, I'm not so confident of knowing exactly what's going on. As is becoming apparent as the day unfolds.
The Ukrainian military has officially officially confirmed the liberation of a small area near Donetsk, which had been under Russian control since 2014
The withdrawal of Wagner and Chechen troops into Russia is denuding the so-called "blocking troops", i.e. the troops who fire at their own front line if they retreat or attempt to surrender. I think we will now see large changes in the line over the next week.
Not really. The Ukrainians often only announce progess days after it occurs, its been a feature of their OPSEC even though rumours do pop up ahead. The lack of informal feedback from the Ukrainian side can often be a sign that things are moving, not that they are going badly. Breakthroughs on the battlefield are just as likely driven by the fact that the Ukrainians have, in some areas, started to really degrade Russian artillery (a big area of Russian quantitative if not qualitative advantage still) and are homing in a lot on the logistics chain to some effect. Once you start to strangle those advantages you look to push your brgades not involved yet. The problem of Russian tactical aviation, however, mainly in the form of attack helicopters remains.
The situation in Russia is a joker card that is impossible to say what difference it will make to Russian disposition and motivation in Ukraine but its unlikely to be positive.
Not sure what you are trying to say here. Of course the ZSU are mashing all the site you suggest and more, but losing the Russian "blocking" troops will allow the Russian frontlines either to surrender of collapse. Ed Lucas also thinks that a very large amount of territory will be dumped on Ukraine all at once.
Much of the Russian slowing down of the Ukrainian advance has been down to thick minefields - high density and lots of depth. The Ukrainians have been working their way through - but it takes time for the specialist engineer vehicles to move forward. Especially under fire. The other issue is that if a lane is cleared, the following vehicles have to use that lane. Making an easy target.
If the minefields are undefended or even less well defended, then getting through becomes much, much easier. And once the Ukrainians are through the last minefields - there is not much to stop them then.
@kinabalu is not a Russian bot just because you disagree with him you know.
No, he's a Putin apologist because he trivialises the war crimes happening in Ukraine equating it to just "7 deaths" and thinks its better to have Russians killing Ukrainians than other Russians.
I haven't seen him say there are only 7 deaths in Ukraine. All I've seen him say is that he'd rather needless lives were not lost in a bloody civil war. I tend to agree with that POV if it can be avoided.
I think Putin is a thoroughly wicked man but just because he is, it doesn't mean I'd like to see Russians killed.
War is tragic - and that doesn't excuse any of his actions nor all the people he has killed in Ukraine, before I get accused of being a Russian stooge too.
Far better they are killing each other than murdering Ukranians, especially women and children.
Why?
Because the ukranians didn't choose it, they are victims here. Many ordinary russians supported the arsehole putin so if they end up burning in because of a war the one they supported started frankly who gives a shit
Fuck, looks like it’s back to conversations about Trans and Brexit and maybe the odd UFO until the next (men’s) ashes starts. Praying for a coup somewhere else overnight.
Don't forget cricket and rail gauges.
What's a cricket gauge?
It's how you measure the distance between it's wings to figure out how loud it'll be as it flies.
Comments
Lukashenko takes over ?
Mary Ilyushina
@maryilyushina
·
23m
In the end, Muscovites got an extra day off on Monday, Twitter got a bazillion memes and Prigozhin... got a million followers on Telegram and no clear exit strategy after Putin called him a traitor and FSB has issued a warrant?
https://twitter.com/maryilyushina
Lukashenka is an intermediary precisely because he has no power in Russia, I think. Whoever comes out on top, he’s utterly dependent on them, so unlike any Russian, he can be trusted.
Prigozhin’s failure, if that’s what it proves to be, is that no one supported him - though everyone sitting on their hands to see what happened gave him a certain amount of time.
The one thing it shows is how weak Putin’s position has become; back in the day, the hot dog seller wouldn’t have made it past the border.
Other people will people aware of that, so that's why it may be significant that it's Lukashenko that brokered the deal.
Prighozin may as well start discussing the design of his coffin with his personal undertaker unless this is a feint.
Eg WW2 got rid of Hitler. Does this mean WW2 was a good thing? Not really.
Eg person in 1938:
"God I hope we have a massive bloody global conflict which ends with the defeat of Nazi Germany and Hitler dead."
Makes sense? Sensible person? Head screwed on?
Indeed, after he issued signals against nuclear weapions last year, the official rhetoric changed.
And it's widely rumoured he ordered it himself.
Let's assume Putin survives the weekend. That looks a safe assumption now, although given the panic we saw earlier it hasn't been all day.
He now looks weak, indecisive, cowardly, stupid and despised.
It's just become much more plausible for another member of his inner circle to remove him.
Keep an eye on Shoygu. He must have been unnerved by events. He might be wondering if things would be better if he were in control of them.
Putin is weak enough that a mercenary chief has been able to march of Moscow despite a warrant for his arrest and walk free.
Vlad needs to start checking out retirement villas. It could be tomorrow, next week or in 3 months’ time, but he has lost control and he is on his way out.
Of course, people start out that way and situations can evolve, but it does seem as an outsider that Putin has successfull managed things such that no one has a clear idea who might be a successor. His chosen underline to be President when he ostensibly stepped back for a few years doesn't seem to be talked about in that vein.
If Lukashenko were to issue a statement now saying that he was at the head of a new Russian-Belarussian Union, rather than Putin, he would be widely believed, because he's set the agenda today.
https://twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB/status/1672671396256677888
Most of the rest of the world sees Lukashenko as a homunculus of Russia, propped up by Russian money and military support. Why do you think he's poised to start running the show?
Surely there would be at least a bazillion people in the Kremlin who thought they had a better claim to do so than some weak President of Belarus.
The same thing happened last year when Putin and Lavrov were ramping up the nuclear rhetoric like nutters. The man clearly has decisive power.
It was a pi rate.
He wanted to be Sir Cumference.
This is a mutiny, not a coup, yet. Prigozhin would rather be a warlord than a president. If he shows up in Moscow with 200 trucks and a thousand soldiers then what? He doesn't appear to have the apparatus of the state to support him, yet.
He was the first to publicly object, after which the tone changed.
Despite all the armchair pontificating going on today about events in Russia/Ukraine, I'm not so confident of knowing exactly what's going on. As is becoming apparent as the day unfolds.
This thread has ordered his troops to turn back to avoid bloodshed
If the minefields are undefended or even less well defended, then getting through becomes much, much easier. And once the Ukrainians are through the last minefields - there is not much to stop them then.