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If BoJo got re-elected would the 90 day suspension apply? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    sarissasarissa Posts: 1,804
    Sandpit said:

    kjh said:

    70 km cycled today. 1st beer in Cognac is now being consumed. I wonder if they sell brandy here?

    You’re in Cognac and drinking beer, rather than Remy Martin XO?
    Is that cheaper than drinking Cognac in Beer?
    https://www.visitsouthdevon.co.uk/places/beer-p1270043
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    edited June 2023
    Deleted due to temporary psychosis
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,398
    Muesli said:

    Muesli said:

    Muesli said:

    Farooq said:

    Nigelb said:

    Muesli said:

    CatMan said:

    ‘How Brexit killed the ex-pat dream’
    https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/how-brexit-killed-the-expat-dream/

    FFS - what did these people think would happen?


    Brexit - driving up inflation, making people poorer, not delivering anything that it promised except for the bastards who are happy to see us all poorer so they can profit.

    It's tempting to laugh at people like that, but I think it shows just how poor political discourse was during the referendum. I keep saying this, but the remain side needed to present Freedom of Movement as a *Positive* to Brits, not something that had to be "endured".
    Are we allowed to use the word 'c**t' on this forum?
    No, we are not.
    It is a banning offence.
    It seems to be unevenly enforced
    To be fair the mods don't read every post, but it seems to be consistently enforced when they do see it.
    Is there a list of forum rules anywhere? I don't want to be banned and I can't go back and edit the offending post now to remove that word.

    ETA: I do realise the irony here in acting rashly without due awareness of the potential consequences for me of my own actions.
    The way you "asked" your "question" re: misogynist c-word, clearly shows your "query" is rhetorical NOT inquisitive.

    Also rude as fuck IMHO to abuse Our Gracious Host's VERY clear views on this point.
    I didn't know what OGH's views on that word were. That's why I asked if there's a list of forum rules anywhere. Any rudeness towards Mike on this front was through ignorance rather than intent. If being an ill-informed, ignorant prat gets me banned, I'll accept it as deserved without complaint.
    Yeah don't use that word, it's a no no, you've somehow got lucky with the spam trap today.

    As a general rule

    1) Do not be rude/abusive to Mike/Robert. They spend a lot of time and money to allow PBers to post immediately, do not misuse. It is ok to disagree.

    2) Do not post things that might get Mike into legal difficulties

    3) Don't use that c-word, try and avoid lots of swear words in general.

    4) Do not copy and paste large portions of paywalled articles.

    5) Don't act like a stalker to other posters.

    6) Do not remind Robert that at Guantanamo Bay the Americans played Radiohead albums on a loop to torture the prisoners.

    7) Don't deliberately post incorrect polling/betting info

    There are other rules, but I cannot remember them at the moment.
    Thank you @TheScreamingEagles and to @ydoethur for the link to Robert's rules. I think I've been lucky to survive this long! A period of contemplative lurking will now follow.

    PS I like Radiohead.
    Creep.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,159
    Farooq said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    The opposite of up is down
    The opposite of north is south
    The opposite of trans is [CENSORED]
    The shadow of Dark Twitter has fallen. Begun, the Prefix War has...

    [pans out as Elon reviews the scene as a fleet of Starships lifts off...]

  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,808
    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    Has anyone considered that it's a whale that's eaten the Titanic sub. And now it's tapping out "SOS" on the hull of the sunken liner hoping to lure another tin of poor sods down to their doom? They are intelligent creatures after all, and they must be sick of our shit by now.

    You are about to be damned by HYUFD for eternity for your sick sense of humour.
    HYUFD has a sick sense of humour. He still believes that the answer to this country's ills is more Boris Johnson
    That's not sick. Merely silly.
    I believe the definition is to be in bad taste or disturbing. I think the idea of More Johnson fulfils both these criteria
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,715
    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,797
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    Leon said:

    Deleted due to temporary psychosis

    You love France so much you had to admit it TWICE

    I think your metric is at fault more than your desired judgement.
    There's so much more to life than how long it lasts. I'd rather 70 years in Scotland than 80 in London. YMMV.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,543
    edited June 2023

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    If enough idiots vote for him and he gets another MP gig, then surely the people have spoken/democracy in action, blah, blah, blah.
    But he ain't getting back in. He's done. Dusted. Labour are going to form the next government and Johnson will be irrelevant.

    I've asked the following question many times, but never get an answer. Who do PB Tories actually want to lead the party?

    Not my business, of course, but (pace ydoethur) Gove would be good - not bad at combative politics but also a genuine old-fashioned politician keen to change things for the good of the country. Some of his changes have been very controversial, but at least he enriches public debate. What do Sunak, Hunt, Mordaunt, etc. actually stand for? When did they last say anything new?
    I think Gove has been around too long, and there are too many hostages to fortune in choosing him. The problem with others like Alex Chalk, for example, is that he is too public school smooth, and is unlikely to hold his seat anyway. Tobias Ellwood has also annoyed too many with his rebellious antics, but there is a portion of the party establishment that would go for him.

    The puff piece for Penny Mordaunt in the Times today suggests that if she holds her own seat, she is in with a good shout. However, that is a pretty big "if".

    The big deal for the post defeat Tories will be "Character", hence the interesting positioning of Mordaunt and Ellwood.
    The novelisation of Yes, Prime Minister ends with The National Education Service, and Hacker sadly realising that whatever wins he might achieve, nothing fundamental would change.

    Gove's career has been about big, disruptive changes, whether at Education or Brexit. Both of those legacies are, at best, mixed, and his planning reforms have largely been blown up by Conservative Nimbies.

    I do wonder if he's had his Jim Hacker moment.
    This is very selectve in its overview of his career. Both at Justice and DEFRA he made significant and lasting change in both culture and practice which have had long reaching positive effects.

    He is very much a details, evidence based person. Looking at what the real problems are in departments and listening to all sides rather than just the usual lobbyists.
    Yet Justice is falling apart with cases taking years to get to court.
    My father also had Views on his record at DEFRA.

    Put it this way, you think I hate him? You should have heard what Dad had to say!
    Well at least now we know where you got your irrational hatred from.
    In case you've forgotten, he went to DEFRA and earned Dad's ire long after he'd screwed over education.
    In case you have forgotten education was screwed over long before Gove ever came on the scene. A third world system run entirely for vested interest and ideology.
    The irony of that post is while it was not necessarily true at the time Gove came into power, it was profoundly true of what he left. Especially in making it even more in hock to ideology - including some quite sinister ideologies - and vested interests which are not only not conducive to but positively opposed to the interests of children's education.

    There were many problems in education in 2010. The exam system was not good. The curriculum was years out of date. Appointments to senior posts were profoundly corrupt. LEAs were a shambles.

    What he left was an exam system that doesn't work at all, a curriculum that was based on naked nativism, a system of appointments to senior posts so corrupt that we actually have people who are entirely unqualified in senior positions and a series of expensive and mostly badly run academy chains taking the place of LEAs working as a gravy train for rather too many sponsoring organisations and their chums.

    And I would gently suggest that rather than hector me about it, and attribute my understanding of just how bad things to an 'irrational hatred' of Gove, you remember that I am an expert in the field and you are not. Perhaps therefore the reason I disdain Gove is because I understand fully just how badly he messed up and you do not?
    And yet the PISA ratings for the UK education system collapsed between 2000 and 2012 (from 7th to 24th in maths. Similar falls in Science and reading.) and only started to recover after the Tory reforms were introduced.
    On the other hand, there is a time lag in those ratings, surely? Not familiar with the details.

    (But I also wonder about lead in petrol.)
    The time lag idea is just ydoethur clutching at straws. Yes there will be a timelag but the idea it is a decade or more is rubbish.

    And besides even with a decade it still falls in Labour's lap.

    Maths rankings:

    2000 - 7th
    2003 - 17th
    2006 - 23rd
    2009 - 26th
    2012 - 24th
    2015 - 27th
    2018 - 17th

    The testing is done at age 15 so those taking it in 2009 and 2012 had spent almost their whole education under Labour. Those taking it in 2018 had had 8 of their 10 years education under coalition or Tory government.
    The curriculum changes did not take effect until 2016-17.

    Unless I was teaching the wrong curriculum all that time.

    The curriculum they were learning until that time was developed under Labour.

    And because they are tested at age 15, any changes will be measured about ten years after they take effect, because until that time you won't know what the changes in five years and upwards have been.

    So you are simply wrong.

    Frankly, you're not only wrong but making yourself look an idiot. Which I don't think you are as a successful engineer, but you clearly are ignorant and therefore spouting nonsense.

    This is why you should listen to experts.

    But I think you are too irrationally devoted to Gove to listen to reason.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,282
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    Although Macron's party is now third in the polls behind the far-left and the far-right, so they probably face a more turbulent political future than we do with only Keir Starmer on the horizon.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,797
    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,083

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    If enough idiots vote for him and he gets another MP gig, then surely the people have spoken/democracy in action, blah, blah, blah.
    But he ain't getting back in. He's done. Dusted. Labour are going to form the next government and Johnson will be irrelevant.

    I've asked the following question many times, but never get an answer. Who do PB Tories actually want to lead the party?

    Not my business, of course, but (pace ydoethur) Gove would be good - not bad at combative politics but also a genuine old-fashioned politician keen to change things for the good of the country. Some of his changes have been very controversial, but at least he enriches public debate. What do Sunak, Hunt, Mordaunt, etc. actually stand for? When did they last say anything new?
    I think Gove has been around too long, and there are too many hostages to fortune in choosing him. The problem with others like Alex Chalk, for example, is that he is too public school smooth, and is unlikely to hold his seat anyway. Tobias Ellwood has also annoyed too many with his rebellious antics, but there is a portion of the party establishment that would go for him.

    The puff piece for Penny Mordaunt in the Times today suggests that if she holds her own seat, she is in with a good shout. However, that is a pretty big "if".

    The big deal for the post defeat Tories will be "Character", hence the interesting positioning of Mordaunt and Ellwood.
    The novelisation of Yes, Prime Minister ends with The National Education Service, and Hacker sadly realising that whatever wins he might achieve, nothing fundamental would change.

    Gove's career has been about big, disruptive changes, whether at Education or Brexit. Both of those legacies are, at best, mixed, and his planning reforms have largely been blown up by Conservative Nimbies.

    I do wonder if he's had his Jim Hacker moment.
    This is very selectve in its overview of his career. Both at Justice and DEFRA he made significant and lasting change in both culture and practice which have had long reaching positive effects.

    He is very much a details, evidence based person. Looking at what the real problems are in departments and listening to all sides rather than just the usual lobbyists.
    Yet Justice is falling apart with cases taking years to get to court.
    My father also had Views on his record at DEFRA.

    Put it this way, you think I hate him? You should have heard what Dad had to say!
    Well at least now we know where you got your irrational hatred from.
    In case you've forgotten, he went to DEFRA and earned Dad's ire long after he'd screwed over education.
    In case you have forgotten education was screwed over long before Gove ever came on the scene. A third world system run entirely for vested interest and ideology.
    The irony of that post is while it was not necessarily true at the time Gove came into power, it was profoundly true of what he left. Especially in making it even more in hock to ideology - including some quite sinister ideologies - and vested interests which are not only not conducive to but positively opposed to the interests of children's education.

    There were many problems in education in 2010. The exam system was not good. The curriculum was years out of date. Appointments to senior posts were profoundly corrupt. LEAs were a shambles.

    What he left was an exam system that doesn't work at all, a curriculum that was based on naked nativism, a system of appointments to senior posts so corrupt that we actually have people who are entirely unqualified in senior positions and a series of expensive and mostly badly run academy chains taking the place of LEAs working as a gravy train for rather too many sponsoring organisations and their chums.

    And I would gently suggest that rather than hector me about it, and attribute my understanding of just how bad things to an 'irrational hatred' of Gove, you remember that I am an expert in the field and you are not. Perhaps therefore the reason I disdain Gove is because I understand fully just how badly he messed up and you do not?
    And yet the PISA ratings for the UK education system collapsed between 2000 and 2012 (from 7th to 24th in maths. Similar falls in Science and reading.) and only started to recover after the Tory reforms were introduced.
    On the other hand, there is a time lag in those ratings, surely? Not familiar with the details.

    (But I also wonder about lead in petrol.)
    The time lag idea is just ydoethur clutching at straws. Yes there will be a timelag but the idea it is a decade or more is rubbish.

    And besides even with a decade it still falls in Labour's lap.

    Maths rankings:

    2000 - 7th
    2003 - 17th
    2006 - 23rd
    2009 - 26th
    2012 - 24th
    2015 - 27th
    2018 - 17th

    The testing is done at age 15 so those taking it in 2009 and 2012 had spent almost their whole education under Labour. Those taking it in 2018 had had 8 of their 10 years education under coalition or Tory government.
    Interesting. On the other hand, (a) the teachers' curriculum development groups and 9b) local authorities, only some Tory/LD, are also involved.

    And lead was banned in petrol in 1999 in the UK, so - allowing for intrauterine environment - you would expect to see a kick up in, in fact, 2016.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,083

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    Leon said:

    Deleted due to temporary psychosis

    You love France so much you had to admit it TWICE

    I think your metric is at fault more than your desired judgement.
    There's so much more to life than how long it lasts. I'd rather 70 years in Scotland than 80 in London. YMMV.
    And if I died tomorrow in my late 50s I’d rather have had my life of extreme wildness - wine, women and song, and 100 countries seen - than a contented suburban family life where I lived into my 80s

    That is not to say the quieter life is inferior. Each to their own. I am contented with my more turbulent life path. With my psyche, I didn’t get much choice anyway
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,715
    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    The opposite of up is down
    The opposite of north is south
    The opposite of trans is [CENSORED]
    The shadow of Dark Twitter has fallen. Begun, the Prefix War has...

    [pans out as Elon reviews the scene as a fleet of Starships lifts off...]

    [. . . enroute to Musk Spacex Death Star . . .]
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,135
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    Except they may elect a far-right president in less than 4 years from now.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,046
    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    I LOVE ELON
    enol=leno=lone=noel=elon=leon!

    Suddenly things make sense... :)
    enol, leno, lone, noel. leon are all transelon.
    elon is ciselon.
    Leon is trans?
    Well there's a turnup I wasn't expecting.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    Except they may elect a far-right president in less than 4 years from now.
    I've heard the same thing since at least 2002.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,797
    edited June 2023
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    If enough idiots vote for him and he gets another MP gig, then surely the people have spoken/democracy in action, blah, blah, blah.
    But he ain't getting back in. He's done. Dusted. Labour are going to form the next government and Johnson will be irrelevant.

    I've asked the following question many times, but never get an answer. Who do PB Tories actually want to lead the party?

    Not my business, of course, but (pace ydoethur) Gove would be good - not bad at combative politics but also a genuine old-fashioned politician keen to change things for the good of the country. Some of his changes have been very controversial, but at least he enriches public debate. What do Sunak, Hunt, Mordaunt, etc. actually stand for? When did they last say anything new?
    I think Gove has been around too long, and there are too many hostages to fortune in choosing him. The problem with others like Alex Chalk, for example, is that he is too public school smooth, and is unlikely to hold his seat anyway. Tobias Ellwood has also annoyed too many with his rebellious antics, but there is a portion of the party establishment that would go for him.

    The puff piece for Penny Mordaunt in the Times today suggests that if she holds her own seat, she is in with a good shout. However, that is a pretty big "if".

    The big deal for the post defeat Tories will be "Character", hence the interesting positioning of Mordaunt and Ellwood.
    The novelisation of Yes, Prime Minister ends with The National Education Service, and Hacker sadly realising that whatever wins he might achieve, nothing fundamental would change.

    Gove's career has been about big, disruptive changes, whether at Education or Brexit. Both of those legacies are, at best, mixed, and his planning reforms have largely been blown up by Conservative Nimbies.

    I do wonder if he's had his Jim Hacker moment.
    This is very selectve in its overview of his career. Both at Justice and DEFRA he made significant and lasting change in both culture and practice which have had long reaching positive effects.

    He is very much a details, evidence based person. Looking at what the real problems are in departments and listening to all sides rather than just the usual lobbyists.
    Yet Justice is falling apart with cases taking years to get to court.
    My father also had Views on his record at DEFRA.

    Put it this way, you think I hate him? You should have heard what Dad had to say!
    Well at least now we know where you got your irrational hatred from.
    In case you've forgotten, he went to DEFRA and earned Dad's ire long after he'd screwed over education.
    In case you have forgotten education was screwed over long before Gove ever came on the scene. A third world system run entirely for vested interest and ideology.
    The irony of that post is while it was not necessarily true at the time Gove came into power, it was profoundly true of what he left. Especially in making it even more in hock to ideology - including some quite sinister ideologies - and vested interests which are not only not conducive to but positively opposed to the interests of children's education.

    There were many problems in education in 2010. The exam system was not good. The curriculum was years out of date. Appointments to senior posts were profoundly corrupt. LEAs were a shambles.

    What he left was an exam system that doesn't work at all, a curriculum that was based on naked nativism, a system of appointments to senior posts so corrupt that we actually have people who are entirely unqualified in senior positions and a series of expensive and mostly badly run academy chains taking the place of LEAs working as a gravy train for rather too many sponsoring organisations and their chums.

    And I would gently suggest that rather than hector me about it, and attribute my understanding of just how bad things to an 'irrational hatred' of Gove, you remember that I am an expert in the field and you are not. Perhaps therefore the reason I disdain Gove is because I understand fully just how badly he messed up and you do not?
    And yet the PISA ratings for the UK education system collapsed between 2000 and 2012 (from 7th to 24th in maths. Similar falls in Science and reading.) and only started to recover after the Tory reforms were introduced.
    On the other hand, there is a time lag in those ratings, surely? Not familiar with the details.

    (But I also wonder about lead in petrol.)
    The time lag idea is just ydoethur clutching at straws. Yes there will be a timelag but the idea it is a decade or more is rubbish.

    And besides even with a decade it still falls in Labour's lap.

    Maths rankings:

    2000 - 7th
    2003 - 17th
    2006 - 23rd
    2009 - 26th
    2012 - 24th
    2015 - 27th
    2018 - 17th

    The testing is done at age 15 so those taking it in 2009 and 2012 had spent almost their whole education under Labour. Those taking it in 2018 had had 8 of their 10 years education under coalition or Tory government.
    Interesting. On the other hand, (a) the teachers' curriculum development groups and 9b) local authorities, only some Tory/LD, are also involved.

    And lead was banned in petrol in 1999 in the UK, so - allowing for intrauterine environment - you would expect to see a kick up in, in fact, 2016.
    Leaded petrol declined quite steadily from about 1990 or so, so any effects on 15 years olds should have started to be noticed as a trend beginning 2006 or so.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    edited June 2023

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    We are

    Also, the French are better than us - right now - at football AND rugby, which is, you know, galling
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,662
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    If enough idiots vote for him and he gets another MP gig, then surely the people have spoken/democracy in action, blah, blah, blah.
    But he ain't getting back in. He's done. Dusted. Labour are going to form the next government and Johnson will be irrelevant.

    I've asked the following question many times, but never get an answer. Who do PB Tories actually want to lead the party?

    Not my business, of course, but (pace ydoethur) Gove would be good - not bad at combative politics but also a genuine old-fashioned politician keen to change things for the good of the country. Some of his changes have been very controversial, but at least he enriches public debate. What do Sunak, Hunt, Mordaunt, etc. actually stand for? When did they last say anything new?
    I think Gove has been around too long, and there are too many hostages to fortune in choosing him. The problem with others like Alex Chalk, for example, is that he is too public school smooth, and is unlikely to hold his seat anyway. Tobias Ellwood has also annoyed too many with his rebellious antics, but there is a portion of the party establishment that would go for him.

    The puff piece for Penny Mordaunt in the Times today suggests that if she holds her own seat, she is in with a good shout. However, that is a pretty big "if".

    The big deal for the post defeat Tories will be "Character", hence the interesting positioning of Mordaunt and Ellwood.
    The novelisation of Yes, Prime Minister ends with The National Education Service, and Hacker sadly realising that whatever wins he might achieve, nothing fundamental would change.

    Gove's career has been about big, disruptive changes, whether at Education or Brexit. Both of those legacies are, at best, mixed, and his planning reforms have largely been blown up by Conservative Nimbies.

    I do wonder if he's had his Jim Hacker moment.
    This is very selectve in its overview of his career. Both at Justice and DEFRA he made significant and lasting change in both culture and practice which have had long reaching positive effects.

    He is very much a details, evidence based person. Looking at what the real problems are in departments and listening to all sides rather than just the usual lobbyists.
    Yet Justice is falling apart with cases taking years to get to court.
    My father also had Views on his record at DEFRA.

    Put it this way, you think I hate him? You should have heard what Dad had to say!
    Well at least now we know where you got your irrational hatred from.
    In case you've forgotten, he went to DEFRA and earned Dad's ire long after he'd screwed over education.
    In case you have forgotten education was screwed over long before Gove ever came on the scene. A third world system run entirely for vested interest and ideology.
    The irony of that post is while it was not necessarily true at the time Gove came into power, it was profoundly true of what he left. Especially in making it even more in hock to ideology - including some quite sinister ideologies - and vested interests which are not only not conducive to but positively opposed to the interests of children's education.

    There were many problems in education in 2010. The exam system was not good. The curriculum was years out of date. Appointments to senior posts were profoundly corrupt. LEAs were a shambles.

    What he left was an exam system that doesn't work at all, a curriculum that was based on naked nativism, a system of appointments to senior posts so corrupt that we actually have people who are entirely unqualified in senior positions and a series of expensive and mostly badly run academy chains taking the place of LEAs working as a gravy train for rather too many sponsoring organisations and their chums.

    And I would gently suggest that rather than hector me about it, and attribute my understanding of just how bad things to an 'irrational hatred' of Gove, you remember that I am an expert in the field and you are not. Perhaps therefore the reason I disdain Gove is because I understand fully just how badly he messed up and you do not?
    And yet the PISA ratings for the UK education system collapsed between 2000 and 2012 (from 7th to 24th in maths. Similar falls in Science and reading.) and only started to recover after the Tory reforms were introduced.
    On the other hand, there is a time lag in those ratings, surely? Not familiar with the details.

    (But I also wonder about lead in petrol.)
    The time lag idea is just ydoethur clutching at straws. Yes there will be a timelag but the idea it is a decade or more is rubbish.

    And besides even with a decade it still falls in Labour's lap.

    Maths rankings:

    2000 - 7th
    2003 - 17th
    2006 - 23rd
    2009 - 26th
    2012 - 24th
    2015 - 27th
    2018 - 17th

    The testing is done at age 15 so those taking it in 2009 and 2012 had spent almost their whole education under Labour. Those taking it in 2018 had had 8 of their 10 years education under coalition or Tory government.
    Interesting. On the other hand, (a) the teachers' curriculum development groups and 9b) local authorities, only some Tory/LD, are also involved.

    And lead was banned in petrol in 1999 in the UK, so - allowing for intrauterine environment - you would expect to see a kick up in, in fact, 2016.
    The reality is that... It's complicated.

    However, the UK’s average scores in reading and science did not improve significantly, and the improvement in the country’s position has been attributed in part to a drop in performance from other countries. Average scores across the OECD also fell in 2018 compared to 2015.

    https://schoolsweek.co.uk/pisa-2018-maths-up-no-improvement-in-reading-or-science/
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    edited June 2023
    Anyhoo, you've all missed the big story of today.

    Mark my words, within 5 years no one will admit to voting for Brexit.

    Covid inquiry: pandemic planning ‘paused’ for no-deal Brexit work

    Whitehall “paused” its work planning for a potential pandemic to deal with the threat of a no-deal Brexit, the Covid inquiry has been told.

    Giving evidence to the inquiry today Oliver Dowden, the deputy prime minister, was presented with evidence showing that ministers were warned in 2019 that the “significant majority” of flu pandemic preparedness work needed to be “paused” to deal with the consequences of leaving the European Union.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-covid-inquiry-lockdown-pandemic-effects-2023-ntllrcthb
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,939

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    American wealth is very, very private. It's not obvious from the way the country as a whole looks, feels and functions. But it is undoubtedly the best place on earth in which to be rich.

    Well it is amazing how many zillionaires live in the South of France and Monaco just now. They are buying up the place like the Russians were before them. Paul Allen's estate is for sale for anyone interested

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=paul+allens+house+cp+ferrat#imgrc=CGz4x94LHcQyZM
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,808

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,275

    Perhaps an asteroid struck us?

    Identified as a FLSOJ
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,797
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    Leon said:

    Deleted due to temporary psychosis

    You love France so much you had to admit it TWICE

    I think your metric is at fault more than your desired judgement.
    There's so much more to life than how long it lasts. I'd rather 70 years in Scotland than 80 in London. YMMV.
    And if I died tomorrow in my late 50s I’d rather have had my life of extreme wildness - wine, women and song, and 100 countries seen - than a contented suburban family life where I lived into my 80s

    That is not to say the quieter life is inferior. Each to their own. I am contented with my more turbulent life path. With my psyche, I didn’t get much choice anyway
    Yeah, I suspect you're as glad you aren't me as I am that I'm not you.

    Here, the sun's out after the rain, and the birds are singing. I'm going to head to the beach soon for an evening walk. I don't eat oysters from one year to the next but wet sand between the toes and the breath of the surf is more than compensation.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,543

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    If enough idiots vote for him and he gets another MP gig, then surely the people have spoken/democracy in action, blah, blah, blah.
    But he ain't getting back in. He's done. Dusted. Labour are going to form the next government and Johnson will be irrelevant.

    I've asked the following question many times, but never get an answer. Who do PB Tories actually want to lead the party?

    Not my business, of course, but (pace ydoethur) Gove would be good - not bad at combative politics but also a genuine old-fashioned politician keen to change things for the good of the country. Some of his changes have been very controversial, but at least he enriches public debate. What do Sunak, Hunt, Mordaunt, etc. actually stand for? When did they last say anything new?
    I think Gove has been around too long, and there are too many hostages to fortune in choosing him. The problem with others like Alex Chalk, for example, is that he is too public school smooth, and is unlikely to hold his seat anyway. Tobias Ellwood has also annoyed too many with his rebellious antics, but there is a portion of the party establishment that would go for him.

    The puff piece for Penny Mordaunt in the Times today suggests that if she holds her own seat, she is in with a good shout. However, that is a pretty big "if".

    The big deal for the post defeat Tories will be "Character", hence the interesting positioning of Mordaunt and Ellwood.
    The novelisation of Yes, Prime Minister ends with The National Education Service, and Hacker sadly realising that whatever wins he might achieve, nothing fundamental would change.

    Gove's career has been about big, disruptive changes, whether at Education or Brexit. Both of those legacies are, at best, mixed, and his planning reforms have largely been blown up by Conservative Nimbies.

    I do wonder if he's had his Jim Hacker moment.
    This is very selectve in its overview of his career. Both at Justice and DEFRA he made significant and lasting change in both culture and practice which have had long reaching positive effects.

    He is very much a details, evidence based person. Looking at what the real problems are in departments and listening to all sides rather than just the usual lobbyists.
    Yet Justice is falling apart with cases taking years to get to court.
    My father also had Views on his record at DEFRA.

    Put it this way, you think I hate him? You should have heard what Dad had to say!
    Well at least now we know where you got your irrational hatred from.
    In case you've forgotten, he went to DEFRA and earned Dad's ire long after he'd screwed over education.
    In case you have forgotten education was screwed over long before Gove ever came on the scene. A third world system run entirely for vested interest and ideology.
    The irony of that post is while it was not necessarily true at the time Gove came into power, it was profoundly true of what he left. Especially in making it even more in hock to ideology - including some quite sinister ideologies - and vested interests which are not only not conducive to but positively opposed to the interests of children's education.

    There were many problems in education in 2010. The exam system was not good. The curriculum was years out of date. Appointments to senior posts were profoundly corrupt. LEAs were a shambles.

    What he left was an exam system that doesn't work at all, a curriculum that was based on naked nativism, a system of appointments to senior posts so corrupt that we actually have people who are entirely unqualified in senior positions and a series of expensive and mostly badly run academy chains taking the place of LEAs working as a gravy train for rather too many sponsoring organisations and their chums.

    And I would gently suggest that rather than hector me about it, and attribute my understanding of just how bad things to an 'irrational hatred' of Gove, you remember that I am an expert in the field and you are not. Perhaps therefore the reason I disdain Gove is because I understand fully just how badly he messed up and you do not?
    And yet the PISA ratings for the UK education system collapsed between 2000 and 2012 (from 7th to 24th in maths. Similar falls in Science and reading.) and only started to recover after the Tory reforms were introduced.
    On the other hand, there is a time lag in those ratings, surely? Not familiar with the details.

    (But I also wonder about lead in petrol.)
    The time lag idea is just ydoethur clutching at straws. Yes there will be a timelag but the idea it is a decade or more is rubbish.

    And besides even with a decade it still falls in Labour's lap.

    Maths rankings:

    2000 - 7th
    2003 - 17th
    2006 - 23rd
    2009 - 26th
    2012 - 24th
    2015 - 27th
    2018 - 17th

    The testing is done at age 15 so those taking it in 2009 and 2012 had spent almost their whole education under Labour. Those taking it in 2018 had had 8 of their 10 years education under coalition or Tory government.
    Interesting. On the other hand, (a) the teachers' curriculum development groups and 9b) local authorities, only some Tory/LD, are also involved.

    And lead was banned in petrol in 1999 in the UK, so - allowing for intrauterine environment - you would expect to see a kick up in, in fact, 2016.
    The reality is that... It's complicated.

    However, the UK’s average scores in reading and science did not improve significantly, and the improvement in the country’s position has been attributed in part to a drop in performance from other countries. Average scores across the OECD also fell in 2018 compared to 2015.

    https://schoolsweek.co.uk/pisa-2018-maths-up-no-improvement-in-reading-or-science/
    One of the other problems in assessing the impact of the Gove reforms (either way) is that until about 2031 the impact of Covid will still be significant, across a great many countries.

    And by the time that has worked out, the chaos engulfing our education system will probably swamp any good news anyway.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,159
    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    I LOVE ELON
    enol=leno=lone=noel=elon=leon!

    Suddenly things make sense... :)
    enol, leno, lone, noel. leon are all transelon.
    elon is ciselon.
    Leon is trans?
    Well there's a turnup I wasn't expecting.
    "turnup", Malc, not "turnip"
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,797
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    We are

    Also, the French are better than us - right now - at football AND rugby, which is, you know, galling
    In case you think it went unappreciated, I saw what you did there. Very good.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,808

    Anyhoo, you've all missed the big story of today.

    Mark my words, within 5 years no one will admit to voting for Brexit.

    Covid inquiry: pandemic planning ‘paused’ for no-deal Brexit work

    Whitehall “paused” its work planning for a potential pandemic to deal with the threat of a no-deal Brexit, the Covid inquiry has been told.

    Giving evidence to the inquiry today Oliver Dowden, the deputy prime minister, was presented with evidence showing that ministers were warned in 2019 that the “significant majority” of flu pandemic preparedness work needed to be “paused” to deal with the consequences of leaving the European Union.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-covid-inquiry-lockdown-pandemic-effects-2023-ntllrcthb

    But but but...the vaccines the vaccines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Those vaccines that were made by Boris Johnson himself no less.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,462

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    I am not sure, although I am assured it could be a whole range of issues, just not Brexit.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,212
    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    Sandpit said:

    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    So when the economy implodes and inflation is low and growth is poor causing a recession, the poor have to shoulder the burden via austerity.

    When the economy implodes and inflation is high, the Bank of England should CAUSE a recession, forcing the poor to have less purchasing power and less job security, shouldering the burden anyway.

    Why do we have this economic system? Like, it isn't a force of nature, we designed things this way - why is it talked about as if these aren't political decisions to allow rich people to stay rich and poor people to get poorer? It's obscene...

    Because the system, if it is working properly, is the least worst option.

    By working properly, I mean that there is support to allow those at the bottom to climb up the ladder, and protections in place to stop abuses from occurring at the top.

    At the moment, it is hard to say that our system in the UK is working as well as it could be…. For a myriad of reasons I would blame on successive governments of all colours.
    So the system has just never worked properly in my adult life? I am 32...
    Correct. Most people under 40 don’t know anything except interest rates being effectively zero.
    So can we say a system works if it doesn't work for a generation? @numbertwelve Your definition of the system working seems, in my mind, to be social democracy - and the last person who advocated that was called a literal Stalinist for years. Like, that is not Thatcherism or Reaganism, and that is the current system we live under - neoliberalism won.
    The system worked under Thatcher and Major. It broke under Blair and Brown, before interest rates fell down to zero.

    We had a stable population, even sometimes declining population for decades with planning restrictions and the system was working.

    Then population growth exploded at the turn of the century but planning restrictions were kept, so supply and demand became imbalanced and we've never had a working system since.

    I personally am entirely comfortable with free movement and high migration - but it needs to be accompanied with free planning and high construction too. If people were able to come here without a visa, they should have been able to get a house built without planning too.

    Now we have a shortfall of about 3 million houses as we have 99% occupancy rate in our houses when a stable rate and European average is about 90% occupancy. Even if net migration dropped to zero overnight, which it won't, we'd still need those 3 million houses building. We need more than that, to accompany continuing population growth.
    I'm not just talking about housing, although that is a big factor. I'm talking about how the whole economy is organised to extract value from workers to give it to the already wealthy, and how any shock to the economy has a response that buggers the poor and insulates the rich. Austerity cut the social safety net to the bone, but the argument was that the Great Recession was terrible and balancing the budget will provide stability in the future. 0% interest rates were not used at that time to do Keynesianism, because neoliberal economics argues Keynesianism is bad, actually. Now that interest rates are going up, it is still the poor and workers who are most impacted, and now the argument is a recession is NECESSARY to fix the economy, and the Labour party are essentially saying they need MORE austerity. So what is the average person to look at with hope? What policies are being proposed that actually help people? What is an economy for if not to organise resources and labour towards the needs of the greater populace; which we are not doing?
    In that case, the best thing that’s happened to British workers in a generation has been the EU exit - as there’s now employers fighting over employees, and not the other way around.
    Delusion or heatstroke from the sand dunes
    You think it’s better to have an unlimited number of minimum-wage immigrant workers, willing to live in ‘bed space’, both driving down the wages and increasing the demand for housing, of the unskilled British worker?
    You halfwit there are more immigrants coming in than ever , all you clowns did is get rid of Europeans and caused a skills shortage.
  • Options

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Philip Hammond became Chancellor. 🤔
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Our North Wales poster will tell you that 2016 was the year Starmer joined Corbyn's shadow cabinet, so obviously Starmer's fault.
  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    Sandpit said:

    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    So when the economy implodes and inflation is low and growth is poor causing a recession, the poor have to shoulder the burden via austerity.

    When the economy implodes and inflation is high, the Bank of England should CAUSE a recession, forcing the poor to have less purchasing power and less job security, shouldering the burden anyway.

    Why do we have this economic system? Like, it isn't a force of nature, we designed things this way - why is it talked about as if these aren't political decisions to allow rich people to stay rich and poor people to get poorer? It's obscene...

    Because the system, if it is working properly, is the least worst option.

    By working properly, I mean that there is support to allow those at the bottom to climb up the ladder, and protections in place to stop abuses from occurring at the top.

    At the moment, it is hard to say that our system in the UK is working as well as it could be…. For a myriad of reasons I would blame on successive governments of all colours.
    So the system has just never worked properly in my adult life? I am 32...
    Correct. Most people under 40 don’t know anything except interest rates being effectively zero.
    So can we say a system works if it doesn't work for a generation? @numbertwelve Your definition of the system working seems, in my mind, to be social democracy - and the last person who advocated that was called a literal Stalinist for years. Like, that is not Thatcherism or Reaganism, and that is the current system we live under - neoliberalism won.
    The system worked under Thatcher and Major. It broke under Blair and Brown, before interest rates fell down to zero.

    We had a stable population, even sometimes declining population for decades with planning restrictions and the system was working.

    Then population growth exploded at the turn of the century but planning restrictions were kept, so supply and demand became imbalanced and we've never had a working system since.

    I personally am entirely comfortable with free movement and high migration - but it needs to be accompanied with free planning and high construction too. If people were able to come here without a visa, they should have been able to get a house built without planning too.

    Now we have a shortfall of about 3 million houses as we have 99% occupancy rate in our houses when a stable rate and European average is about 90% occupancy. Even if net migration dropped to zero overnight, which it won't, we'd still need those 3 million houses building. We need more than that, to accompany continuing population growth.
    I'm not just talking about housing, although that is a big factor. I'm talking about how the whole economy is organised to extract value from workers to give it to the already wealthy, and how any shock to the economy has a response that buggers the poor and insulates the rich. Austerity cut the social safety net to the bone, but the argument was that the Great Recession was terrible and balancing the budget will provide stability in the future. 0% interest rates were not used at that time to do Keynesianism, because neoliberal economics argues Keynesianism is bad, actually. Now that interest rates are going up, it is still the poor and workers who are most impacted, and now the argument is a recession is NECESSARY to fix the economy, and the Labour party are essentially saying they need MORE austerity. So what is the average person to look at with hope? What policies are being proposed that actually help people? What is an economy for if not to organise resources and labour towards the needs of the greater populace; which we are not doing?
    In that case, the best thing that’s happened to British workers in a generation has been the EU exit - as there’s now employers fighting over employees, and not the other way around.
    Delusion or heatstroke from the sand dunes
    You think it’s better to have an unlimited number of minimum-wage immigrant workers, willing to live in ‘bed space’, both driving down the wages and increasing the demand for housing, of the unskilled British worker?
    You halfwit there are more immigrants coming in than ever , all you clowns did is get rid of Europeans and caused a skills shortage.
    So you think immigrants coming now are unskilled? 🤔
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    Roger said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    American wealth is very, very private. It's not obvious from the way the country as a whole looks, feels and functions. But it is undoubtedly the best place on earth in which to be rich.

    Well it is amazing how many zillionaires live in the South of France and Monaco just now. They are buying up the place like the Russians were before them. Paul Allen's estate is for sale for anyone interested

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=paul+allens+house+cp+ferrat#imgrc=CGz4x94LHcQyZM
    Indeed. There is a notable influx of wealthy Americans into Europe right now. It’s so bad in Portugal (driving up property prices) the Portuguese are changing the rules

    If America is ‘pulling ahead of Europe’ it’s weird how many Americans nonetheless want to live IN Europe. I can hazard a guess why
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,212
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    Gender
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Not true. The decline began with the GFC of 2008. Brexit was nothing compared to that

    The GFC destroyed our economic model of vast financial services, and the taxes they generate, paying for everything and everywhere else. We still haven’t worked out how to fix this
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,808

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    I am not sure, although I am assured it could be a whole range of issues, just not Brexit.
    Indeed. Massive volcanic eruptions at the cretaceous tertiary boundary may well have precipitated Brexit that in turn led to a temporary downturn for perhaps as little as an epoch, but Britain will rise again.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,212
    viewcode said:

    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    I LOVE ELON
    enol=leno=lone=noel=elon=leon!

    Suddenly things make sense... :)
    enol, leno, lone, noel. leon are all transelon.
    elon is ciselon.
    Leon is trans?
    Well there's a turnup I wasn't expecting.
    "turnup", Malc, not "turnip"
    You are talking trousers, who would eat a turnup.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,682
    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    Gender
    Girly swot.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,797
    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    Gender
    So I'm gender as opposed to a transgender? That sounds a bit confusing to me.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    In brighter news my older daughter, with some stellar predicted A Levels, has been invited to apply for Oxbridge

    In less bright news, she is sunk in teenage gloom and refuses to think about it. She’ll probably end up at Wolverhampton Technical College

    Sigh
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,212
    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    Gender
    So I'm gender as opposed to a transgender? That sounds a bit confusing to me.
    Look down your trousers or up your skirt and you will get the picture
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,715
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    American wealth is very, very private. It's not obvious from the way the country as a whole looks, feels and functions. But it is undoubtedly the best place on earth in which to be rich.

    Well it is amazing how many zillionaires live in the South of France and Monaco just now. They are buying up the place like the Russians were before them. Paul Allen's estate is for sale for anyone interested

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=paul+allens+house+cp+ferrat#imgrc=CGz4x94LHcQyZM
    Indeed. There is a notable influx of wealthy Americans into Europe right now. It’s so bad in Portugal (driving up property prices) the Portuguese are changing the rules

    If America is ‘pulling ahead of Europe’ it’s weird how many Americans nonetheless want to live IN Europe. I can hazard a guess why
    Thought that (according to anti-woke wacks) that Americans all want to move to Florida and/or Texas?

    Though current plus 100 degrees Fahrenheit temperatures that have been baking TX, and early start to active hurricane season in FL, may have given some recent immigrants to Lone Star and Sunshine States a wee bit o' buyers remorse . . .
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    Leon said:

    In brighter news my older daughter, with some stellar predicted A Levels, has been invited to apply for Oxbridge

    In less bright news, she is sunk in teenage gloom and refuses to think about it. She’ll probably end up at Wolverhampton Technical College

    Sigh

    Could be worse, she could end up at Oxford.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,797
    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    Gender
    So I'm gender as opposed to a transgender? That sounds a bit confusing to me.
    Look down your trousers or up your skirt and you will get the picture
    If I look really carefully, I can see a penis.

    I identify as male.

    Therefore I am gender?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,228
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    American wealth is very, very private. It's not obvious from the way the country as a whole looks, feels and functions. But it is undoubtedly the best place on earth in which to be rich.

    Well it is amazing how many zillionaires live in the South of France and Monaco just now. They are buying up the place like the Russians were before them. Paul Allen's estate is for sale for anyone interested

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=paul+allens+house+cp+ferrat#imgrc=CGz4x94LHcQyZM
    Indeed. There is a notable influx of wealthy Americans into Europe right now. It’s so bad in Portugal (driving up property prices) the Portuguese are changing the rules

    If America is ‘pulling ahead of Europe’ it’s weird how many Americans nonetheless want to live IN Europe. I can hazard a guess why
    Is it because you keep traveling to the US?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698

    Anyhoo, you've all missed the big story of today.

    Mark my words, within 5 years no one will admit to voting for Brexit.

    Covid inquiry: pandemic planning ‘paused’ for no-deal Brexit work

    Whitehall “paused” its work planning for a potential pandemic to deal with the threat of a no-deal Brexit, the Covid inquiry has been told.

    Giving evidence to the inquiry today Oliver Dowden, the deputy prime minister, was presented with evidence showing that ministers were warned in 2019 that the “significant majority” of flu pandemic preparedness work needed to be “paused” to deal with the consequences of leaving the European Union.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-covid-inquiry-lockdown-pandemic-effects-2023-ntllrcthb

    But but but...the vaccines the vaccines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Those vaccines that were made by Boris Johnson himself no less.
    Don't worry, the day when we will be permitted to brand Brexiteers with the letters E and U isn't far off.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,618
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,808
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Not true. The decline began with the GFC of 2008. Brexit was nothing compared to that

    The GFC destroyed our economic model of vast financial services, and the taxes they generate, paying for everything and everywhere else. We still haven’t worked out how to fix this
    Ah! I believe denial is one of the first stages of grief. You are still there? Not quite angry yet about the death of Brexit as an idea then? That is not as bad as the bargaining stage or the depression. Eventually you will get to the acceptance stage. I suspect at that time you will, as TSE has suggested, loop back to denial, but this time you will disown ever having voted for it. You will be asked three times, then the cock will crow and you will burst into tears.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    American wealth is very, very private. It's not obvious from the way the country as a whole looks, feels and functions. But it is undoubtedly the best place on earth in which to be rich.

    Well it is amazing how many zillionaires live in the South of France and Monaco just now. They are buying up the place like the Russians were before them. Paul Allen's estate is for sale for anyone interested

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=paul+allens+house+cp+ferrat#imgrc=CGz4x94LHcQyZM
    Indeed. There is a notable influx of wealthy Americans into Europe right now. It’s so bad in Portugal (driving up property prices) the Portuguese are changing the rules

    If America is ‘pulling ahead of Europe’ it’s weird how many Americans nonetheless want to live IN Europe. I can hazard a guess why
    Thought that (according to anti-woke wacks) that Americans all want to move to Florida and/or Texas?

    Though current plus 100 degrees Fahrenheit temperatures that have been baking TX, and early start to active hurricane season in FL, may have given some recent immigrants to Lone Star and Sunshine States a wee bit o' buyers remorse . . .
    “Americans Moving To Europe: Portugal Still Top Place For Expats Despite Restrictions”

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2022/09/20/americans-moving-to-europe-portugal-still-top-place-for-expats-despite-restrictions/
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,797

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    That's the answer I was expecting.

    So now everyone has to refer to me as normal. Me. IDFTS.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,462

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Our North Wales poster will tell you that 2016 was the year Starmer joined Corbyn's shadow cabinet, so obviously Starmer's fault.
    Don't forget the news has got substantially worse since Starmer-Labour started to pull away in the polls. No coincidence surely?

    Anyway this economic Armageddon seems to have surprised both the Government and Andrew Bailey. I remember sparring with a former poster who had a pirate as an avatar, similar in fact to Barty's. He stated my claims that QA would increase M3 and that was inflationary were shot down in flames as the economic theory of a bygone age. It seems I might not have been wrong
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,217
    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7zm9q/elon-musk-twitter-nazis-white-supremacy
    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/elon-musk-twitter-reinstates-neo-nazi-andrew-anglin-account-1234640390/

    + many more.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,282

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Provincial Britain had symptoms of the same malaise not only pre-Brexit but also pre-GFC. Brexit has just become an easy scapegoat.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,543
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    In brighter news my older daughter, with some stellar predicted A Levels, has been invited to apply for Oxbridge

    In less bright news, she is sunk in teenage gloom and refuses to think about it. She’ll probably end up at Wolverhampton Technical College

    Sigh

    Wolverhampton is actually a damn good uni for undergraduate degrees. It has made the decision that it doesn't really care about research funding and league tables and concentrates instead on providing good-quality training to anyone who signs up for it.

    The one thing I would say is it sees itself very much as a local university providing services for local people, like Salford or Birkbeck, rather than recruiting Londoners.

    I've got several friends who teach there and they love it. But it isn't a classic university.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,046
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Not true. The decline began with the GFC of 2008. Brexit was nothing compared to that

    The GFC destroyed our economic model of vast financial services, and the taxes they generate, paying for everything and everywhere else. We still haven’t worked out how to fix this
    Ah! I believe denial is one of the first stages of grief. You are still there? Not quite angry yet about the death of Brexit as an idea then? That is not as bad as the bargaining stage or the depression. Eventually you will get to the acceptance stage. I suspect at that time you will, as TSE has suggested, you will loop back to denial, but this time you will disown ever having voted for it. You will be asked three times, then the cock will crow and you will burst into tears.
    I’d vote Leave if we had the vote tomorrow. The reasons I voted Leave have not changed, despite our ludicrous, incompetent government

    You can believe me or not, I do not care
    If only you had that opportunity.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,808
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Not true. The decline began with the GFC of 2008. Brexit was nothing compared to that

    The GFC destroyed our economic model of vast financial services, and the taxes they generate, paying for everything and everywhere else. We still haven’t worked out how to fix this
    Ah! I believe denial is one of the first stages of grief. You are still there? Not quite angry yet about the death of Brexit as an idea then? That is not as bad as the bargaining stage or the depression. Eventually you will get to the acceptance stage. I suspect at that time you will, as TSE has suggested, you will loop back to denial, but this time you will disown ever having voted for it. You will be asked three times, then the cock will crow and you will burst into tears.
    I’d vote Leave if we had the vote tomorrow. The reasons I voted Leave have not changed, despite our ludicrous, incompetent government

    You can believe me or not, I do not care
    I believe you. Everyone has areas of blind faith. It is known as the blind stupidity of entrenched views. People who strongly believe in something take considerable time to be persuaded even when presented with incontrovertible evidence. Some would refer to it as gullibility or stubbornness. Donald Trump and Boris Johnson know this and exploit it to the max.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,083
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    American wealth is very, very private. It's not obvious from the way the country as a whole looks, feels and functions. But it is undoubtedly the best place on earth in which to be rich.

    Well it is amazing how many zillionaires live in the South of France and Monaco just now. They are buying up the place like the Russians were before them. Paul Allen's estate is for sale for anyone interested

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=paul+allens+house+cp+ferrat#imgrc=CGz4x94LHcQyZM
    Indeed. There is a notable influx of wealthy Americans into Europe right now. It’s so bad in Portugal (driving up property prices) the Portuguese are changing the rules

    If America is ‘pulling ahead of Europe’ it’s weird how many Americans nonetheless want to live IN Europe. I can hazard a guess why
    Cheese?
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,066
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Admiral Robert Henry English.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,808

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Provincial Britain had symptoms of the same malaise not only pre-Brexit but also pre-GFC. Brexit has just become an easy scapegoat.
    Lol. What, a bit like the EU?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,543
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    That's the answer I was expecting.

    So now everyone has to refer to me as normal. Me. IDFTS.
    Could be worse, they could be referring to me as normal.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,083
    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Haven't got that far yet, but the author has made some remarks about Admiral King that adumbrate a somewhat less Britannophobic portrait than usual.
  • Options
    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    Gender
    So I'm gender as opposed to a transgender? That sounds a bit confusing to me.
    Look down your trousers or up your skirt and you will get the picture
    If I look really carefully, I can see a penis.

    I identify as male.

    Therefore I am gender?
    You are male, that is your gender. There is no qualification required other than saying you are male.

    The opposite of a trans male is an actual male. The opposite of a trans female is an actual woman.

    But the term cis, while silly, should not be banned.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,808
    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    That's the answer I was expecting.

    So now everyone has to refer to me as normal. Me. IDFTS.
    Could be worse, they could be referring to me as normal.
    Worse, how could it be worse?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,543

    Anyhoo, you've all missed the big story of today.

    Mark my words, within 5 years no one will admit to voting for Brexit.

    Covid inquiry: pandemic planning ‘paused’ for no-deal Brexit work

    Whitehall “paused” its work planning for a potential pandemic to deal with the threat of a no-deal Brexit, the Covid inquiry has been told.

    Giving evidence to the inquiry today Oliver Dowden, the deputy prime minister, was presented with evidence showing that ministers were warned in 2019 that the “significant majority” of flu pandemic preparedness work needed to be “paused” to deal with the consequences of leaving the European Union.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-covid-inquiry-lockdown-pandemic-effects-2023-ntllrcthb

    But but but...the vaccines the vaccines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Those vaccines that were made by Boris Johnson himself no less.
    No, they weren't. When he said he wanted to put his little prick into every woman in Britain, he meant something a bit different.
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    Shall we ban "Straight" as the opposite to "Gay"?

    Give it a go. See what happens if you insist on using "Normal" in that context...

    Of course in the USA we could try using "Normal" as the opposite to "Trump supporter" :D
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,159

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    The irony is, if Elon ever gets off the phone and returns his attention to SpaceX, then he'll have to sit thru either the dearMoon mission or HLS missions using the words "trans-Lunar injection" or "cislunar orbit".
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,228

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    Irrespective of your views on trans, a blanket ban on the use of a word just because you don't like the ideology that led to it is very much the opposite of being a champion for free speech.

    How does the old saying go? Sometime like, It is not your support of speech you agree with that shows your support for free speech.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,618
    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    The irony is, if Elon ever gets off the phone and returns his attention to SpaceX, then he'll have to sit thru either the dearMoon mission or HLS missions using the words "trans-Lunar injection" or "cislunar orbit".
    [after entering temporal vortex to alternate 21st century] "Population approximately 9 billion... all normal!"
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,083

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    The irony is, if Elon ever gets off the phone and returns his attention to SpaceX, then he'll have to sit thru either the dearMoon mission or HLS missions using the words "trans-Lunar injection" or "cislunar orbit".
    [after entering temporal vortex to alternate 21st century] "Population approximately 9 billion... all normal!"
    "Nominal", surely.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,682
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Not true. The decline began with the GFC of 2008. Brexit was nothing compared to that

    The GFC destroyed our economic model of vast financial services, and the taxes they generate, paying for everything and everywhere else. We still haven’t worked out how to fix this
    America also has a vast financial services industry. It would be interesting to see our economic performance relative to America since pre-GFC to now. It would be interesting to see if Brexit marks a divergence from the US separate from the GFC and Covid.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,159

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    The irony is, if Elon ever gets off the phone and returns his attention to SpaceX, then he'll have to sit thru either the dearMoon mission or HLS missions using the words "trans-Lunar injection" or "cislunar orbit".
    [after entering temporal vortex to alternate 21st century] "Population approximately 9 billion... all normal!"
    "We are the Elon. Resistance is futile. Here is a list of words you can use..."
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,725
    edited June 2023

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Not true. The decline began with the GFC of 2008. Brexit was nothing compared to that

    The GFC destroyed our economic model of vast financial services, and the taxes they generate, paying for everything and everywhere else. We still haven’t worked out how to fix this
    Ah! I believe denial is one of the first stages of grief. You are still there? Not quite angry yet about the death of Brexit as an idea then? That is not as bad as the bargaining stage or the depression. Eventually you will get to the acceptance stage. I suspect at that time you will, as TSE has suggested, you will loop back to denial, but this time you will disown ever having voted for it. You will be asked three times, then the cock will crow and you will burst into tears.
    I’d vote Leave if we had the vote tomorrow. The reasons I voted Leave have not changed, despite our ludicrous, incompetent government

    You can believe me or not, I do not care
    I believe you. Everyone has areas of blind faith. It is known as the blind stupidity of entrenched views. People who strongly believe in something take considerable time to be persuaded even when presented with incontrovertible evidence. Some would refer to it as gullibility or stubbornness. Donald Trump and Boris Johnson know this and exploit it to the max.
    No, it’s sovereignty and democracy. As ever

    Right. Now I must do household chores, go to the gym, have a stroll in the sun, then sink into the bliss of gin and tonic and homemade cioppino. Later
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    edited June 2023
    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Admiral Robert Henry English.
    The Field Marshal in charge of the BEF in 1914 who despised the French, couldn't speak French (and even if he could, wouldn't have spoken to them anyway) was...Sir John French.
    And the roaster made himself the 1st Earl of Ypres.
  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,808
    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Admiral Robert Henry English.
    The Field Marshal in charge of the BEF in 1914 who despised the French, couldn't speak French (and even if he could, wouldn't have spoken to them anyway) was...Sir John French.
    IIRC correctly one of the senior British officers in Colditz was Col. German
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,715
    edited June 2023
    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    You are thinking of Admiral King.

    Who was NOT anti-British or anti-RN, instead pro-American and pro-USN.

    Lot of bilge pumped out them and since by Brits who thought America should necessarily defer to British interests and opinions, as opposed to their own obviously less-important concerns.

    Such as the Japanese Navy.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,981

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    In case anyone is feeling unduly optimistic after today's flood of good news, on all fronts, a reminder that it is now midsummer, and the days get shorter from here on. Winter is coming

    A necessary corrective to some of this afternoon's irrational exuberance, perhaps

    In fact, the solstice is RIGHT NOW, 15:57
    Winter gloom, here we come!
    No! Cosy evenings indoors, and nights that stay dark past 4am here we come.
    Love the cosy times of winter - warm house, winter TV, glass of whisky etc. But not yet. I love high summer - endless sunshine and light evenings.
    Last night I walked home down Highgate West - between the ancient cemetery and Waterlow Park, after a very agreeable evening in beer garden of The Flask. It was utterly deserted

    Historic London is absolutely sublime on warm summer evenings like that. I am sure I could sense Coleridge reciting his latest opiated verse to Byron and Shelley...

    That's Swain's Lane, not Highgate West Hill. I used to do my paper round around there. The cemetery was very spooky in the early morning. I also used to have to deliver to the Soviet trade delegation on Highgate West Hill. That was very spooky in another way. Lots of very stern security guard faces as I dropped off their Morning Stars.

    There used to be a hole in the fence at the bottom of the cemetery, opposite Holly Village. So I’d climb through that and walk up the hill through the cemetery, then through Waterlow Park, on my way to school.

    The Trade Delegation could be foreboding, but then my Mum befriended a bunch of them (through work) and they were lovely people, particularly the ones high up in the KGB. (This is not an endorsement for the actions of the KGB.) They used to bring gifts of caviar for the cat.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,083

    Leon said:

    In brighter news my older daughter, with some stellar predicted A Levels, has been invited to apply for Oxbridge

    In less bright news, she is sunk in teenage gloom and refuses to think about it. She’ll probably end up at Wolverhampton Technical College

    Sigh

    Could be worse, she could end up at Oxford.
    And Wolverhampton would be exciting for Leon to visit: all those slag heaps. Just a pity about HS2 though.



    These were days when my heart was volcanic

    As the scoriac rivers that roll —

    As the lavas that restlessly roll

    Their sulphurous currents down Yaanek

    In the ultimate climes of the pole —

    That groan as they roll down Mount Yaanek

    In the realms of the boreal pole.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,981
    sarissa said:

    Farooq said:

    148grss said:
    I find myself siding with the cetaceans in this fight
    Strangely enough these creatures don't seem to be as aggressive with, say, Faeroese vessels.
    Different orca pods have their own cultures and fashions. They’re very xenophobic, orcas. They don’t just do what the orcas in another pod are doing.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,543

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Admiral Robert Henry English.
    The Field Marshal in charge of the BEF in 1914 who despised the French, couldn't speak French (and even if he could, wouldn't have spoken to them anyway) was...Sir John French.
    And the roaster made himself the 1st Earl of Ypres.
    Yes.

    For those who criticise Haig, often justly, I remind them he was still a vast improvement on French.

    Admittedly, that may be like you saying that you prefer any other driver to Max Verstappen.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,618

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Admiral Robert Henry English.
    The Field Marshal in charge of the BEF in 1914 who despised the French, couldn't speak French (and even if he could, wouldn't have spoken to them anyway) was...Sir John French.
    And the roaster made himself the 1st Earl of Ypres.
    Which is in Dutch-speaking Flanders! (The Flemings spell it "Ieper")
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,975
    sarissa said:

    Farooq said:

    148grss said:
    I find myself siding with the cetaceans in this fight
    Strangely enough these creatures don't seem to be as aggressive with, say, Faeroese vessels.
    Faroese don't hunt Orcas, it's pilot whales that they traditionally kill and eat, and Atlantic white sided dolphins.

  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,187
    edited June 2023

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Admiral Robert Henry English.
    The Field Marshal in charge of the BEF in 1914 who despised the French, couldn't speak French (and even if he could, wouldn't have spoken to them anyway) was...Sir John French.
    And the roaster made himself the 1st Earl of Ypres.
    They should wipe that from the record

  • Options
    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,808
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Not true. The decline began with the GFC of 2008. Brexit was nothing compared to that

    The GFC destroyed our economic model of vast financial services, and the taxes they generate, paying for everything and everywhere else. We still haven’t worked out how to fix this
    Ah! I believe denial is one of the first stages of grief. You are still there? Not quite angry yet about the death of Brexit as an idea then? That is not as bad as the bargaining stage or the depression. Eventually you will get to the acceptance stage. I suspect at that time you will, as TSE has suggested, you will loop back to denial, but this time you will disown ever having voted for it. You will be asked three times, then the cock will crow and you will burst into tears.
    I’d vote Leave if we had the vote tomorrow. The reasons I voted Leave have not changed, despite our ludicrous, incompetent government

    You can believe me or not, I do not care
    I believe you. Everyone has areas of blind faith. It is known as the blind stupidity of entrenched views. People who strongly believe in something take considerable time to be persuaded even when presented with incontrovertible evidence. Some would refer to it as gullibility or stubbornness. Donald Trump and Boris Johnson know this and exploit it to the max.
    No, it’s sovereignty and democracy. As ever

    Right. Now I must do household chores, go to the gym, have a stroll in the sun, then sink into the bliss of gin and tonic and homemade cioppino. Later
    Well exactly. You are still convinced by something that was nonsense. We have no more sovereignty and no more democracy (probably less) since we left. But again, you are stuck in that trench.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    An interesting theory on what happened to the Kahhovka dam, from an Estonian source who appears to be well-informed and who is quoted by reputable journalists:

    The destruction of the Kahhovka dam has been a major source of concern for the Ukrainians. And also the Western media's fake balanced attitude. There is also enough information today to be convinced that it was the Russians who did it. If there had been a Ukrainian missile strike, U.S. satellites would have shown it very well.

    The informed working version is currently as follows. The dam was damaged anyway and some things were not working properly there. The Russians wanted to use a controlled explosion to raise the flow to avoid flooding around the dam. As usual for the Russians, things got out of control. The explosion was more massive than they wanted.


    The whole thread is worth a read:

    https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1671504601722306560
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,083

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Admiral Robert Henry English.
    The Field Marshal in charge of the BEF in 1914 who despised the French, couldn't speak French (and even if he could, wouldn't have spoken to them anyway) was...Sir John French.
    And the roaster made himself the 1st Earl of Ypres.
    Which is in Dutch-speaking Flanders! (The Flemings spell it "Ieper")
    English spelling: Wipers. Also know for Yperite (the French word for mustard gas).
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,618
    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    The irony is, if Elon ever gets off the phone and returns his attention to SpaceX, then he'll have to sit thru either the dearMoon mission or HLS missions using the words "trans-Lunar injection" or "cislunar orbit".
    The Austro-Hungarian Empire was split into "Cisleithania" and "Transleithania", basically corresponding to the "Austrian" and "Hungarian" bits.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,066

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    You are thinking of Admiral King.

    Who was NOT anti-British or anti-RN, instead pro-American and pro-USN.

    Lot of bilge pumped out them and since by Brits who thought America should necessarily defer to British interests and opinions, as opposed to their own obviously less-important concerns.

    Such as the Japanese Navy.
    I stand corrected and forgo my ration of grog.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,715

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Admiral Robert Henry English.
    The Field Marshal in charge of the BEF in 1914 who despised the French, couldn't speak French (and even if he could, wouldn't have spoken to them anyway) was...Sir John French.
    And the roaster made himself the 1st Earl of Ypres.
    Which was - and still is - NOT French, but rather Belgian. Officially Ieper aka Yper aka "Wippers".
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,618

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Admiral Robert Henry English.
    The Field Marshal in charge of the BEF in 1914 who despised the French, couldn't speak French (and even if he could, wouldn't have spoken to them anyway) was...Sir John French.
    And the roaster made himself the 1st Earl of Ypres.
    Which was - and still is - NOT French, but rather Belgian. Officially Ieper aka Yper aka "Wippers".
    Ieper in Dutch, the local language.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,282
    Foxy said:

    sarissa said:

    Farooq said:

    148grss said:
    I find myself siding with the cetaceans in this fight
    Strangely enough these creatures don't seem to be as aggressive with, say, Faeroese vessels.
    Faroese don't hunt Orcas, it's pilot whales that they traditionally kill and eat, and Atlantic white sided dolphins.
    A proper government would use that as a pretext to annex them and force them to end their whale-killing ways.
  • Options

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Our North Wales poster will tell you that 2016 was the year Starmer joined Corbyn's shadow cabinet, so obviously Starmer's fault.
    Don't forget the news has got substantially worse since Starmer-Labour started to pull away in the polls. No coincidence surely?

    Anyway this economic Armageddon seems to have surprised both the Government and Andrew Bailey. I remember sparring with a former poster who had a pirate as an avatar, similar in fact to Barty's. He stated my claims that QA would increase M3 and that was inflationary were shot down in flames as the economic theory of a bygone age. It seems I might not have been wrong
    That is not the discussion that we had, you have misremembered.

    What was discussed was that increasing M3 is inflationary however the economy also has deflationary effects. What I said was that if, like in Japan, M3 is increased but the deflationary pressures are greater, then its possible to have either deflation or low inflation despite the M3 increase.

    M3 being increased doesn't automatically mean inflation, just as upwards pressure won't cause something to go up with gravitational forces pulling them down are greater.

    We have had M3 being increased for years, we've only recently had enough though to see it significantly exceeding the deflationary pressures. That some of the deflationary pressures have eased is another part of the story.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,921
    Evening all :)

    I simply didn't have time to put up my Ascot selections today - probably no bad thing.

    It's strange - I'm really busy at work and I'm told everywhere else is busy. Perhaps that explains inflation - too much money chasing too few goods.

    The corollary of that is the return of debt - having maxed out our Covid cash pile, the middle classes are now reverting back to type and borrowing to pay for all the nonsense. The figure son personal and consumer debt are looking worrying again - the good old British need to consume whatever the cost....
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,454

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Our North Wales poster will tell you that 2016 was the year Starmer joined Corbyn's shadow cabinet, so obviously Starmer's fault.
    Why would I say that

    I wasn't even aware of Starmer then

    Indeed only when Corbyn was defeated and Starmer started his campaign to rid the party was I even aware of him

    Also I have not suggested the decline went back that far but it is not said often enough Brexit, covid and war in Ukraine would tax any government
This discussion has been closed.