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If BoJo got re-elected would the 90 day suspension apply? – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    I LOVE ELON
    enol=leno=lone=noel=elon=leon!

    Suddenly things make sense... :)
    enol, leno, lone, noel. leon are all transelon.
    elon is ciselon.
    Leon is trans?
    Well there's a turnup I wasn't expecting.
    "turnup", Malc, not "turnip"
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Anyhoo, you've all missed the big story of today.

    Mark my words, within 5 years no one will admit to voting for Brexit.

    Covid inquiry: pandemic planning ‘paused’ for no-deal Brexit work

    Whitehall “paused” its work planning for a potential pandemic to deal with the threat of a no-deal Brexit, the Covid inquiry has been told.

    Giving evidence to the inquiry today Oliver Dowden, the deputy prime minister, was presented with evidence showing that ministers were warned in 2019 that the “significant majority” of flu pandemic preparedness work needed to be “paused” to deal with the consequences of leaving the European Union.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-covid-inquiry-lockdown-pandemic-effects-2023-ntllrcthb

    But but but...the vaccines the vaccines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Those vaccines that were made by Boris Johnson himself no less.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    I am not sure, although I am assured it could be a whole range of issues, just not Brexit.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    Sandpit said:

    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    So when the economy implodes and inflation is low and growth is poor causing a recession, the poor have to shoulder the burden via austerity.

    When the economy implodes and inflation is high, the Bank of England should CAUSE a recession, forcing the poor to have less purchasing power and less job security, shouldering the burden anyway.

    Why do we have this economic system? Like, it isn't a force of nature, we designed things this way - why is it talked about as if these aren't political decisions to allow rich people to stay rich and poor people to get poorer? It's obscene...

    Because the system, if it is working properly, is the least worst option.

    By working properly, I mean that there is support to allow those at the bottom to climb up the ladder, and protections in place to stop abuses from occurring at the top.

    At the moment, it is hard to say that our system in the UK is working as well as it could be…. For a myriad of reasons I would blame on successive governments of all colours.
    So the system has just never worked properly in my adult life? I am 32...
    Correct. Most people under 40 don’t know anything except interest rates being effectively zero.
    So can we say a system works if it doesn't work for a generation? @numbertwelve Your definition of the system working seems, in my mind, to be social democracy - and the last person who advocated that was called a literal Stalinist for years. Like, that is not Thatcherism or Reaganism, and that is the current system we live under - neoliberalism won.
    The system worked under Thatcher and Major. It broke under Blair and Brown, before interest rates fell down to zero.

    We had a stable population, even sometimes declining population for decades with planning restrictions and the system was working.

    Then population growth exploded at the turn of the century but planning restrictions were kept, so supply and demand became imbalanced and we've never had a working system since.

    I personally am entirely comfortable with free movement and high migration - but it needs to be accompanied with free planning and high construction too. If people were able to come here without a visa, they should have been able to get a house built without planning too.

    Now we have a shortfall of about 3 million houses as we have 99% occupancy rate in our houses when a stable rate and European average is about 90% occupancy. Even if net migration dropped to zero overnight, which it won't, we'd still need those 3 million houses building. We need more than that, to accompany continuing population growth.
    I'm not just talking about housing, although that is a big factor. I'm talking about how the whole economy is organised to extract value from workers to give it to the already wealthy, and how any shock to the economy has a response that buggers the poor and insulates the rich. Austerity cut the social safety net to the bone, but the argument was that the Great Recession was terrible and balancing the budget will provide stability in the future. 0% interest rates were not used at that time to do Keynesianism, because neoliberal economics argues Keynesianism is bad, actually. Now that interest rates are going up, it is still the poor and workers who are most impacted, and now the argument is a recession is NECESSARY to fix the economy, and the Labour party are essentially saying they need MORE austerity. So what is the average person to look at with hope? What policies are being proposed that actually help people? What is an economy for if not to organise resources and labour towards the needs of the greater populace; which we are not doing?
    In that case, the best thing that’s happened to British workers in a generation has been the EU exit - as there’s now employers fighting over employees, and not the other way around.
    Delusion or heatstroke from the sand dunes
    You think it’s better to have an unlimited number of minimum-wage immigrant workers, willing to live in ‘bed space’, both driving down the wages and increasing the demand for housing, of the unskilled British worker?
    You halfwit there are more immigrants coming in than ever , all you clowns did is get rid of Europeans and caused a skills shortage.
  • Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Philip Hammond became Chancellor. 🤔
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Our North Wales poster will tell you that 2016 was the year Starmer joined Corbyn's shadow cabinet, so obviously Starmer's fault.
  • malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    Sandpit said:

    148grss said:

    148grss said:

    So when the economy implodes and inflation is low and growth is poor causing a recession, the poor have to shoulder the burden via austerity.

    When the economy implodes and inflation is high, the Bank of England should CAUSE a recession, forcing the poor to have less purchasing power and less job security, shouldering the burden anyway.

    Why do we have this economic system? Like, it isn't a force of nature, we designed things this way - why is it talked about as if these aren't political decisions to allow rich people to stay rich and poor people to get poorer? It's obscene...

    Because the system, if it is working properly, is the least worst option.

    By working properly, I mean that there is support to allow those at the bottom to climb up the ladder, and protections in place to stop abuses from occurring at the top.

    At the moment, it is hard to say that our system in the UK is working as well as it could be…. For a myriad of reasons I would blame on successive governments of all colours.
    So the system has just never worked properly in my adult life? I am 32...
    Correct. Most people under 40 don’t know anything except interest rates being effectively zero.
    So can we say a system works if it doesn't work for a generation? @numbertwelve Your definition of the system working seems, in my mind, to be social democracy - and the last person who advocated that was called a literal Stalinist for years. Like, that is not Thatcherism or Reaganism, and that is the current system we live under - neoliberalism won.
    The system worked under Thatcher and Major. It broke under Blair and Brown, before interest rates fell down to zero.

    We had a stable population, even sometimes declining population for decades with planning restrictions and the system was working.

    Then population growth exploded at the turn of the century but planning restrictions were kept, so supply and demand became imbalanced and we've never had a working system since.

    I personally am entirely comfortable with free movement and high migration - but it needs to be accompanied with free planning and high construction too. If people were able to come here without a visa, they should have been able to get a house built without planning too.

    Now we have a shortfall of about 3 million houses as we have 99% occupancy rate in our houses when a stable rate and European average is about 90% occupancy. Even if net migration dropped to zero overnight, which it won't, we'd still need those 3 million houses building. We need more than that, to accompany continuing population growth.
    I'm not just talking about housing, although that is a big factor. I'm talking about how the whole economy is organised to extract value from workers to give it to the already wealthy, and how any shock to the economy has a response that buggers the poor and insulates the rich. Austerity cut the social safety net to the bone, but the argument was that the Great Recession was terrible and balancing the budget will provide stability in the future. 0% interest rates were not used at that time to do Keynesianism, because neoliberal economics argues Keynesianism is bad, actually. Now that interest rates are going up, it is still the poor and workers who are most impacted, and now the argument is a recession is NECESSARY to fix the economy, and the Labour party are essentially saying they need MORE austerity. So what is the average person to look at with hope? What policies are being proposed that actually help people? What is an economy for if not to organise resources and labour towards the needs of the greater populace; which we are not doing?
    In that case, the best thing that’s happened to British workers in a generation has been the EU exit - as there’s now employers fighting over employees, and not the other way around.
    Delusion or heatstroke from the sand dunes
    You think it’s better to have an unlimited number of minimum-wage immigrant workers, willing to live in ‘bed space’, both driving down the wages and increasing the demand for housing, of the unskilled British worker?
    You halfwit there are more immigrants coming in than ever , all you clowns did is get rid of Europeans and caused a skills shortage.
    So you think immigrants coming now are unskilled? 🤔
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Roger said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    American wealth is very, very private. It's not obvious from the way the country as a whole looks, feels and functions. But it is undoubtedly the best place on earth in which to be rich.

    Well it is amazing how many zillionaires live in the South of France and Monaco just now. They are buying up the place like the Russians were before them. Paul Allen's estate is for sale for anyone interested

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=paul+allens+house+cp+ferrat#imgrc=CGz4x94LHcQyZM
    Indeed. There is a notable influx of wealthy Americans into Europe right now. It’s so bad in Portugal (driving up property prices) the Portuguese are changing the rules

    If America is ‘pulling ahead of Europe’ it’s weird how many Americans nonetheless want to live IN Europe. I can hazard a guess why
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    Gender
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Not true. The decline began with the GFC of 2008. Brexit was nothing compared to that

    The GFC destroyed our economic model of vast financial services, and the taxes they generate, paying for everything and everywhere else. We still haven’t worked out how to fix this
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    I am not sure, although I am assured it could be a whole range of issues, just not Brexit.
    Indeed. Massive volcanic eruptions at the cretaceous tertiary boundary may well have precipitated Brexit that in turn led to a temporary downturn for perhaps as little as an epoch, but Britain will rise again.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    viewcode said:

    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    I LOVE ELON
    enol=leno=lone=noel=elon=leon!

    Suddenly things make sense... :)
    enol, leno, lone, noel. leon are all transelon.
    elon is ciselon.
    Leon is trans?
    Well there's a turnup I wasn't expecting.
    "turnup", Malc, not "turnip"
    You are talking trousers, who would eat a turnup.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,892
    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    Gender
    Girly swot.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    In brighter news my older daughter, with some stellar predicted A Levels, has been invited to apply for Oxbridge

    In less bright news, she is sunk in teenage gloom and refuses to think about it. She’ll probably end up at Wolverhampton Technical College

    Sigh
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    Gender
    So I'm gender as opposed to a transgender? That sounds a bit confusing to me.
    Look down your trousers or up your skirt and you will get the picture
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    American wealth is very, very private. It's not obvious from the way the country as a whole looks, feels and functions. But it is undoubtedly the best place on earth in which to be rich.

    Well it is amazing how many zillionaires live in the South of France and Monaco just now. They are buying up the place like the Russians were before them. Paul Allen's estate is for sale for anyone interested

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=paul+allens+house+cp+ferrat#imgrc=CGz4x94LHcQyZM
    Indeed. There is a notable influx of wealthy Americans into Europe right now. It’s so bad in Portugal (driving up property prices) the Portuguese are changing the rules

    If America is ‘pulling ahead of Europe’ it’s weird how many Americans nonetheless want to live IN Europe. I can hazard a guess why
    Thought that (according to anti-woke wacks) that Americans all want to move to Florida and/or Texas?

    Though current plus 100 degrees Fahrenheit temperatures that have been baking TX, and early start to active hurricane season in FL, may have given some recent immigrants to Lone Star and Sunshine States a wee bit o' buyers remorse . . .
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Leon said:

    In brighter news my older daughter, with some stellar predicted A Levels, has been invited to apply for Oxbridge

    In less bright news, she is sunk in teenage gloom and refuses to think about it. She’ll probably end up at Wolverhampton Technical College

    Sigh

    Could be worse, she could end up at Oxford.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    American wealth is very, very private. It's not obvious from the way the country as a whole looks, feels and functions. But it is undoubtedly the best place on earth in which to be rich.

    Well it is amazing how many zillionaires live in the South of France and Monaco just now. They are buying up the place like the Russians were before them. Paul Allen's estate is for sale for anyone interested

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=paul+allens+house+cp+ferrat#imgrc=CGz4x94LHcQyZM
    Indeed. There is a notable influx of wealthy Americans into Europe right now. It’s so bad in Portugal (driving up property prices) the Portuguese are changing the rules

    If America is ‘pulling ahead of Europe’ it’s weird how many Americans nonetheless want to live IN Europe. I can hazard a guess why
    Is it because you keep traveling to the US?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    Anyhoo, you've all missed the big story of today.

    Mark my words, within 5 years no one will admit to voting for Brexit.

    Covid inquiry: pandemic planning ‘paused’ for no-deal Brexit work

    Whitehall “paused” its work planning for a potential pandemic to deal with the threat of a no-deal Brexit, the Covid inquiry has been told.

    Giving evidence to the inquiry today Oliver Dowden, the deputy prime minister, was presented with evidence showing that ministers were warned in 2019 that the “significant majority” of flu pandemic preparedness work needed to be “paused” to deal with the consequences of leaving the European Union.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-covid-inquiry-lockdown-pandemic-effects-2023-ntllrcthb

    But but but...the vaccines the vaccines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Those vaccines that were made by Boris Johnson himself no less.
    Don't worry, the day when we will be permitted to brand Brexiteers with the letters E and U isn't far off.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Not true. The decline began with the GFC of 2008. Brexit was nothing compared to that

    The GFC destroyed our economic model of vast financial services, and the taxes they generate, paying for everything and everywhere else. We still haven’t worked out how to fix this
    Ah! I believe denial is one of the first stages of grief. You are still there? Not quite angry yet about the death of Brexit as an idea then? That is not as bad as the bargaining stage or the depression. Eventually you will get to the acceptance stage. I suspect at that time you will, as TSE has suggested, loop back to denial, but this time you will disown ever having voted for it. You will be asked three times, then the cock will crow and you will burst into tears.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    American wealth is very, very private. It's not obvious from the way the country as a whole looks, feels and functions. But it is undoubtedly the best place on earth in which to be rich.

    Well it is amazing how many zillionaires live in the South of France and Monaco just now. They are buying up the place like the Russians were before them. Paul Allen's estate is for sale for anyone interested

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=paul+allens+house+cp+ferrat#imgrc=CGz4x94LHcQyZM
    Indeed. There is a notable influx of wealthy Americans into Europe right now. It’s so bad in Portugal (driving up property prices) the Portuguese are changing the rules

    If America is ‘pulling ahead of Europe’ it’s weird how many Americans nonetheless want to live IN Europe. I can hazard a guess why
    Thought that (according to anti-woke wacks) that Americans all want to move to Florida and/or Texas?

    Though current plus 100 degrees Fahrenheit temperatures that have been baking TX, and early start to active hurricane season in FL, may have given some recent immigrants to Lone Star and Sunshine States a wee bit o' buyers remorse . . .
    “Americans Moving To Europe: Portugal Still Top Place For Expats Despite Restrictions”

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2022/09/20/americans-moving-to-europe-portugal-still-top-place-for-expats-despite-restrictions/
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Our North Wales poster will tell you that 2016 was the year Starmer joined Corbyn's shadow cabinet, so obviously Starmer's fault.
    Don't forget the news has got substantially worse since Starmer-Labour started to pull away in the polls. No coincidence surely?

    Anyway this economic Armageddon seems to have surprised both the Government and Andrew Bailey. I remember sparring with a former poster who had a pirate as an avatar, similar in fact to Barty's. He stated my claims that QA would increase M3 and that was inflationary were shot down in flames as the economic theory of a bygone age. It seems I might not have been wrong
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,579
    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7zm9q/elon-musk-twitter-nazis-white-supremacy
    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/elon-musk-twitter-reinstates-neo-nazi-andrew-anglin-account-1234640390/

    + many more.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Provincial Britain had symptoms of the same malaise not only pre-Brexit but also pre-GFC. Brexit has just become an easy scapegoat.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    In brighter news my older daughter, with some stellar predicted A Levels, has been invited to apply for Oxbridge

    In less bright news, she is sunk in teenage gloom and refuses to think about it. She’ll probably end up at Wolverhampton Technical College

    Sigh

    Wolverhampton is actually a damn good uni for undergraduate degrees. It has made the decision that it doesn't really care about research funding and league tables and concentrates instead on providing good-quality training to anyone who signs up for it.

    The one thing I would say is it sees itself very much as a local university providing services for local people, like Salford or Birkbeck, rather than recruiting Londoners.

    I've got several friends who teach there and they love it. But it isn't a classic university.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Not true. The decline began with the GFC of 2008. Brexit was nothing compared to that

    The GFC destroyed our economic model of vast financial services, and the taxes they generate, paying for everything and everywhere else. We still haven’t worked out how to fix this
    Ah! I believe denial is one of the first stages of grief. You are still there? Not quite angry yet about the death of Brexit as an idea then? That is not as bad as the bargaining stage or the depression. Eventually you will get to the acceptance stage. I suspect at that time you will, as TSE has suggested, you will loop back to denial, but this time you will disown ever having voted for it. You will be asked three times, then the cock will crow and you will burst into tears.
    I’d vote Leave if we had the vote tomorrow. The reasons I voted Leave have not changed, despite our ludicrous, incompetent government

    You can believe me or not, I do not care
    If only you had that opportunity.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Not true. The decline began with the GFC of 2008. Brexit was nothing compared to that

    The GFC destroyed our economic model of vast financial services, and the taxes they generate, paying for everything and everywhere else. We still haven’t worked out how to fix this
    Ah! I believe denial is one of the first stages of grief. You are still there? Not quite angry yet about the death of Brexit as an idea then? That is not as bad as the bargaining stage or the depression. Eventually you will get to the acceptance stage. I suspect at that time you will, as TSE has suggested, you will loop back to denial, but this time you will disown ever having voted for it. You will be asked three times, then the cock will crow and you will burst into tears.
    I’d vote Leave if we had the vote tomorrow. The reasons I voted Leave have not changed, despite our ludicrous, incompetent government

    You can believe me or not, I do not care
    I believe you. Everyone has areas of blind faith. It is known as the blind stupidity of entrenched views. People who strongly believe in something take considerable time to be persuaded even when presented with incontrovertible evidence. Some would refer to it as gullibility or stubbornness. Donald Trump and Boris Johnson know this and exploit it to the max.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    Leon said:

    Roger said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    American wealth is very, very private. It's not obvious from the way the country as a whole looks, feels and functions. But it is undoubtedly the best place on earth in which to be rich.

    Well it is amazing how many zillionaires live in the South of France and Monaco just now. They are buying up the place like the Russians were before them. Paul Allen's estate is for sale for anyone interested

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=paul+allens+house+cp+ferrat#imgrc=CGz4x94LHcQyZM
    Indeed. There is a notable influx of wealthy Americans into Europe right now. It’s so bad in Portugal (driving up property prices) the Portuguese are changing the rules

    If America is ‘pulling ahead of Europe’ it’s weird how many Americans nonetheless want to live IN Europe. I can hazard a guess why
    Cheese?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Admiral Robert Henry English.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Provincial Britain had symptoms of the same malaise not only pre-Brexit but also pre-GFC. Brexit has just become an easy scapegoat.
    Lol. What, a bit like the EU?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    That's the answer I was expecting.

    So now everyone has to refer to me as normal. Me. IDFTS.
    Could be worse, they could be referring to me as normal.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Haven't got that far yet, but the author has made some remarks about Admiral King that adumbrate a somewhat less Britannophobic portrait than usual.
  • Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    malcolmg said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    Gender
    So I'm gender as opposed to a transgender? That sounds a bit confusing to me.
    Look down your trousers or up your skirt and you will get the picture
    If I look really carefully, I can see a penis.

    I identify as male.

    Therefore I am gender?
    You are male, that is your gender. There is no qualification required other than saying you are male.

    The opposite of a trans male is an actual male. The opposite of a trans female is an actual woman.

    But the term cis, while silly, should not be banned.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    That's the answer I was expecting.

    So now everyone has to refer to me as normal. Me. IDFTS.
    Could be worse, they could be referring to me as normal.
    Worse, how could it be worse?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385

    Anyhoo, you've all missed the big story of today.

    Mark my words, within 5 years no one will admit to voting for Brexit.

    Covid inquiry: pandemic planning ‘paused’ for no-deal Brexit work

    Whitehall “paused” its work planning for a potential pandemic to deal with the threat of a no-deal Brexit, the Covid inquiry has been told.

    Giving evidence to the inquiry today Oliver Dowden, the deputy prime minister, was presented with evidence showing that ministers were warned in 2019 that the “significant majority” of flu pandemic preparedness work needed to be “paused” to deal with the consequences of leaving the European Union.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-covid-inquiry-lockdown-pandemic-effects-2023-ntllrcthb

    But but but...the vaccines the vaccines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Those vaccines that were made by Boris Johnson himself no less.
    No, they weren't. When he said he wanted to put his little prick into every woman in Britain, he meant something a bit different.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    Shall we ban "Straight" as the opposite to "Gay"?

    Give it a go. See what happens if you insist on using "Normal" in that context...

    Of course in the USA we could try using "Normal" as the opposite to "Trump supporter" :D
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    The irony is, if Elon ever gets off the phone and returns his attention to SpaceX, then he'll have to sit thru either the dearMoon mission or HLS missions using the words "trans-Lunar injection" or "cislunar orbit".
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    Irrespective of your views on trans, a blanket ban on the use of a word just because you don't like the ideology that led to it is very much the opposite of being a champion for free speech.

    How does the old saying go? Sometime like, It is not your support of speech you agree with that shows your support for free speech.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    The irony is, if Elon ever gets off the phone and returns his attention to SpaceX, then he'll have to sit thru either the dearMoon mission or HLS missions using the words "trans-Lunar injection" or "cislunar orbit".
    [after entering temporal vortex to alternate 21st century] "Population approximately 9 billion... all normal!"
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    The irony is, if Elon ever gets off the phone and returns his attention to SpaceX, then he'll have to sit thru either the dearMoon mission or HLS missions using the words "trans-Lunar injection" or "cislunar orbit".
    [after entering temporal vortex to alternate 21st century] "Population approximately 9 billion... all normal!"
    "Nominal", surely.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,892
    edited June 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Not true. The decline began with the GFC of 2008. Brexit was nothing compared to that

    The GFC destroyed our economic model of vast financial services, and the taxes they generate, paying for everything and everywhere else. We still haven’t worked out how to fix this
    America also has a vast financial services industry. It would be interesting to see our economic performance relative to America since pre-GFC to now. It would be interesting to see if Brexit marks a divergence from the US separate from the GFC and Covid.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    The irony is, if Elon ever gets off the phone and returns his attention to SpaceX, then he'll have to sit thru either the dearMoon mission or HLS missions using the words "trans-Lunar injection" or "cislunar orbit".
    [after entering temporal vortex to alternate 21st century] "Population approximately 9 billion... all normal!"
    "We are the Elon. Resistance is futile. Here is a list of words you can use..."
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited June 2023

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Not true. The decline began with the GFC of 2008. Brexit was nothing compared to that

    The GFC destroyed our economic model of vast financial services, and the taxes they generate, paying for everything and everywhere else. We still haven’t worked out how to fix this
    Ah! I believe denial is one of the first stages of grief. You are still there? Not quite angry yet about the death of Brexit as an idea then? That is not as bad as the bargaining stage or the depression. Eventually you will get to the acceptance stage. I suspect at that time you will, as TSE has suggested, you will loop back to denial, but this time you will disown ever having voted for it. You will be asked three times, then the cock will crow and you will burst into tears.
    I’d vote Leave if we had the vote tomorrow. The reasons I voted Leave have not changed, despite our ludicrous, incompetent government

    You can believe me or not, I do not care
    I believe you. Everyone has areas of blind faith. It is known as the blind stupidity of entrenched views. People who strongly believe in something take considerable time to be persuaded even when presented with incontrovertible evidence. Some would refer to it as gullibility or stubbornness. Donald Trump and Boris Johnson know this and exploit it to the max.
    No, it’s sovereignty and democracy. As ever

    Right. Now I must do household chores, go to the gym, have a stroll in the sun, then sink into the bliss of gin and tonic and homemade cioppino. Later
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited June 2023
    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Admiral Robert Henry English.
    The Field Marshal in charge of the BEF in 1914 who despised the French, couldn't speak French (and even if he could, wouldn't have spoken to them anyway) was...Sir John French.
    And the roaster made himself the 1st Earl of Ypres.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Admiral Robert Henry English.
    The Field Marshal in charge of the BEF in 1914 who despised the French, couldn't speak French (and even if he could, wouldn't have spoken to them anyway) was...Sir John French.
    IIRC correctly one of the senior British officers in Colditz was Col. German
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited June 2023
    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    You are thinking of Admiral King.

    Who was NOT anti-British or anti-RN, instead pro-American and pro-USN.

    Lot of bilge pumped out them and since by Brits who thought America should necessarily defer to British interests and opinions, as opposed to their own obviously less-important concerns.

    Such as the Japanese Navy.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,055

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    In case anyone is feeling unduly optimistic after today's flood of good news, on all fronts, a reminder that it is now midsummer, and the days get shorter from here on. Winter is coming

    A necessary corrective to some of this afternoon's irrational exuberance, perhaps

    In fact, the solstice is RIGHT NOW, 15:57
    Winter gloom, here we come!
    No! Cosy evenings indoors, and nights that stay dark past 4am here we come.
    Love the cosy times of winter - warm house, winter TV, glass of whisky etc. But not yet. I love high summer - endless sunshine and light evenings.
    Last night I walked home down Highgate West - between the ancient cemetery and Waterlow Park, after a very agreeable evening in beer garden of The Flask. It was utterly deserted

    Historic London is absolutely sublime on warm summer evenings like that. I am sure I could sense Coleridge reciting his latest opiated verse to Byron and Shelley...

    That's Swain's Lane, not Highgate West Hill. I used to do my paper round around there. The cemetery was very spooky in the early morning. I also used to have to deliver to the Soviet trade delegation on Highgate West Hill. That was very spooky in another way. Lots of very stern security guard faces as I dropped off their Morning Stars.

    There used to be a hole in the fence at the bottom of the cemetery, opposite Holly Village. So I’d climb through that and walk up the hill through the cemetery, then through Waterlow Park, on my way to school.

    The Trade Delegation could be foreboding, but then my Mum befriended a bunch of them (through work) and they were lovely people, particularly the ones high up in the KGB. (This is not an endorsement for the actions of the KGB.) They used to bring gifts of caviar for the cat.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835

    Leon said:

    In brighter news my older daughter, with some stellar predicted A Levels, has been invited to apply for Oxbridge

    In less bright news, she is sunk in teenage gloom and refuses to think about it. She’ll probably end up at Wolverhampton Technical College

    Sigh

    Could be worse, she could end up at Oxford.
    And Wolverhampton would be exciting for Leon to visit: all those slag heaps. Just a pity about HS2 though.



    These were days when my heart was volcanic

    As the scoriac rivers that roll —

    As the lavas that restlessly roll

    Their sulphurous currents down Yaanek

    In the ultimate climes of the pole —

    That groan as they roll down Mount Yaanek

    In the realms of the boreal pole.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,055
    sarissa said:

    Farooq said:

    148grss said:
    I find myself siding with the cetaceans in this fight
    Strangely enough these creatures don't seem to be as aggressive with, say, Faeroese vessels.
    Different orca pods have their own cultures and fashions. They’re very xenophobic, orcas. They don’t just do what the orcas in another pod are doing.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Admiral Robert Henry English.
    The Field Marshal in charge of the BEF in 1914 who despised the French, couldn't speak French (and even if he could, wouldn't have spoken to them anyway) was...Sir John French.
    And the roaster made himself the 1st Earl of Ypres.
    Yes.

    For those who criticise Haig, often justly, I remind them he was still a vast improvement on French.

    Admittedly, that may be like you saying that you prefer any other driver to Max Verstappen.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Admiral Robert Henry English.
    The Field Marshal in charge of the BEF in 1914 who despised the French, couldn't speak French (and even if he could, wouldn't have spoken to them anyway) was...Sir John French.
    And the roaster made himself the 1st Earl of Ypres.
    Which is in Dutch-speaking Flanders! (The Flemings spell it "Ieper")
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    sarissa said:

    Farooq said:

    148grss said:
    I find myself siding with the cetaceans in this fight
    Strangely enough these creatures don't seem to be as aggressive with, say, Faeroese vessels.
    Faroese don't hunt Orcas, it's pilot whales that they traditionally kill and eat, and Atlantic white sided dolphins.

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    edited June 2023

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Admiral Robert Henry English.
    The Field Marshal in charge of the BEF in 1914 who despised the French, couldn't speak French (and even if he could, wouldn't have spoken to them anyway) was...Sir John French.
    And the roaster made himself the 1st Earl of Ypres.
    They should wipe that from the record

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Not true. The decline began with the GFC of 2008. Brexit was nothing compared to that

    The GFC destroyed our economic model of vast financial services, and the taxes they generate, paying for everything and everywhere else. We still haven’t worked out how to fix this
    Ah! I believe denial is one of the first stages of grief. You are still there? Not quite angry yet about the death of Brexit as an idea then? That is not as bad as the bargaining stage or the depression. Eventually you will get to the acceptance stage. I suspect at that time you will, as TSE has suggested, you will loop back to denial, but this time you will disown ever having voted for it. You will be asked three times, then the cock will crow and you will burst into tears.
    I’d vote Leave if we had the vote tomorrow. The reasons I voted Leave have not changed, despite our ludicrous, incompetent government

    You can believe me or not, I do not care
    I believe you. Everyone has areas of blind faith. It is known as the blind stupidity of entrenched views. People who strongly believe in something take considerable time to be persuaded even when presented with incontrovertible evidence. Some would refer to it as gullibility or stubbornness. Donald Trump and Boris Johnson know this and exploit it to the max.
    No, it’s sovereignty and democracy. As ever

    Right. Now I must do household chores, go to the gym, have a stroll in the sun, then sink into the bliss of gin and tonic and homemade cioppino. Later
    Well exactly. You are still convinced by something that was nonsense. We have no more sovereignty and no more democracy (probably less) since we left. But again, you are stuck in that trench.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    An interesting theory on what happened to the Kahhovka dam, from an Estonian source who appears to be well-informed and who is quoted by reputable journalists:

    The destruction of the Kahhovka dam has been a major source of concern for the Ukrainians. And also the Western media's fake balanced attitude. There is also enough information today to be convinced that it was the Russians who did it. If there had been a Ukrainian missile strike, U.S. satellites would have shown it very well.

    The informed working version is currently as follows. The dam was damaged anyway and some things were not working properly there. The Russians wanted to use a controlled explosion to raise the flow to avoid flooding around the dam. As usual for the Russians, things got out of control. The explosion was more massive than they wanted.


    The whole thread is worth a read:

    https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1671504601722306560
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Admiral Robert Henry English.
    The Field Marshal in charge of the BEF in 1914 who despised the French, couldn't speak French (and even if he could, wouldn't have spoken to them anyway) was...Sir John French.
    And the roaster made himself the 1st Earl of Ypres.
    Which is in Dutch-speaking Flanders! (The Flemings spell it "Ieper")
    English spelling: Wipers. Also know for Yperite (the French word for mustard gas).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    The irony is, if Elon ever gets off the phone and returns his attention to SpaceX, then he'll have to sit thru either the dearMoon mission or HLS missions using the words "trans-Lunar injection" or "cislunar orbit".
    The Austro-Hungarian Empire was split into "Cisleithania" and "Transleithania", basically corresponding to the "Austrian" and "Hungarian" bits.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    You are thinking of Admiral King.

    Who was NOT anti-British or anti-RN, instead pro-American and pro-USN.

    Lot of bilge pumped out them and since by Brits who thought America should necessarily defer to British interests and opinions, as opposed to their own obviously less-important concerns.

    Such as the Japanese Navy.
    I stand corrected and forgo my ration of grog.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Admiral Robert Henry English.
    The Field Marshal in charge of the BEF in 1914 who despised the French, couldn't speak French (and even if he could, wouldn't have spoken to them anyway) was...Sir John French.
    And the roaster made himself the 1st Earl of Ypres.
    Which was - and still is - NOT French, but rather Belgian. Officially Ieper aka Yper aka "Wippers".
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Admiral Robert Henry English.
    The Field Marshal in charge of the BEF in 1914 who despised the French, couldn't speak French (and even if he could, wouldn't have spoken to them anyway) was...Sir John French.
    And the roaster made himself the 1st Earl of Ypres.
    Which was - and still is - NOT French, but rather Belgian. Officially Ieper aka Yper aka "Wippers".
    Ieper in Dutch, the local language.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Foxy said:

    sarissa said:

    Farooq said:

    148grss said:
    I find myself siding with the cetaceans in this fight
    Strangely enough these creatures don't seem to be as aggressive with, say, Faeroese vessels.
    Faroese don't hunt Orcas, it's pilot whales that they traditionally kill and eat, and Atlantic white sided dolphins.
    A proper government would use that as a pretext to annex them and force them to end their whale-killing ways.
  • Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Our North Wales poster will tell you that 2016 was the year Starmer joined Corbyn's shadow cabinet, so obviously Starmer's fault.
    Don't forget the news has got substantially worse since Starmer-Labour started to pull away in the polls. No coincidence surely?

    Anyway this economic Armageddon seems to have surprised both the Government and Andrew Bailey. I remember sparring with a former poster who had a pirate as an avatar, similar in fact to Barty's. He stated my claims that QA would increase M3 and that was inflationary were shot down in flames as the economic theory of a bygone age. It seems I might not have been wrong
    That is not the discussion that we had, you have misremembered.

    What was discussed was that increasing M3 is inflationary however the economy also has deflationary effects. What I said was that if, like in Japan, M3 is increased but the deflationary pressures are greater, then its possible to have either deflation or low inflation despite the M3 increase.

    M3 being increased doesn't automatically mean inflation, just as upwards pressure won't cause something to go up with gravitational forces pulling them down are greater.

    We have had M3 being increased for years, we've only recently had enough though to see it significantly exceeding the deflationary pressures. That some of the deflationary pressures have eased is another part of the story.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Evening all :)

    I simply didn't have time to put up my Ascot selections today - probably no bad thing.

    It's strange - I'm really busy at work and I'm told everywhere else is busy. Perhaps that explains inflation - too much money chasing too few goods.

    The corollary of that is the return of debt - having maxed out our Covid cash pile, the middle classes are now reverting back to type and borrowing to pay for all the nonsense. The figure son personal and consumer debt are looking worrying again - the good old British need to consume whatever the cost....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Another one for Leon.

    America is leaving Europe behind.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80ace07f-3acb-40cb-9960-8bb4a44fd8d9

    An interesting piece, and yet - like all these articles - it completely ignores the facts on the ground. The stuff I saw on my recent American odyssey

    If America is ‘leaving Europe behind’ how come American life expectancy is plunging every year, has now fallen way behind Europe, and in fact has fallen behind Panama?

    The must fundamental fact of life is: how long you get to live. Europe wins
    So... France > UK.
    Sadly, as a patriotic Brit, I have to confess that - at the moment - France is definitely doing better than the UK
    We're becoming the sick man of Europe again.
    The decline seems to have been from around 2016 onwards. What on earth could have happened to precipitate such a catastrophe? Perhaps an asteroid struck us?
    Our North Wales poster will tell you that 2016 was the year Starmer joined Corbyn's shadow cabinet, so obviously Starmer's fault.
    Why would I say that

    I wasn't even aware of Starmer then

    Indeed only when Corbyn was defeated and Starmer started his campaign to rid the party was I even aware of him

    Also I have not suggested the decline went back that far but it is not said often enough Brexit, covid and war in Ukraine would tax any government
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    Admiral Robert Henry English.
    The Field Marshal in charge of the BEF in 1914 who despised the French, couldn't speak French (and even if he could, wouldn't have spoken to them anyway) was...Sir John French.
    IIRC correctly one of the senior British officers in Colditz was Col. German
    In Bohemia on the eve of WWI, then part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, one of the leaders of the Czechs was Dr. Deutsch, while one of the leaders of the Germans was Dr Tscheche.
  • Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    Shall we ban "Straight" as the opposite to "Gay"?

    Give it a go. See what happens if you insist on using "Normal" in that context...

    Of course in the USA we could try using "Normal" as the opposite to "Trump supporter" :D
    Of course we should not, we don't and shouldn't go around banning words.

    But nor is the word straight needed particularly often, just as the word cis isn't either, for the same reason that there's no such thing as a straight Pride.

    People should be considered by what they are, not what they're not.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Farooq said:

    148grss said:
    I find myself siding with the cetaceans in this fight
    Why? They are attacking sailing boats, not trawlers. Sailing boats do not destroy the orca's foodchain. If they were attacking fishing boats you would have a point...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,055

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    Shall we ban "Straight" as the opposite to "Gay"?

    Give it a go. See what happens if you insist on using "Normal" in that context...

    Of course in the USA we could try using "Normal" as the opposite to "Trump supporter" :D
    Of course we should not, we don't and shouldn't go around banning words.

    But nor is the word straight needed particularly often, just as the word cis isn't either, for the same reason that there's no such thing as a straight Pride.

    People should be considered by what they are, not what they're not.
    Being straight is being something. It's not "not being gay".
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    The irony is, if Elon ever gets off the phone and returns his attention to SpaceX, then he'll have to sit thru either the dearMoon mission or HLS missions using the words "trans-Lunar injection" or "cislunar orbit".
    The Austro-Hungarian Empire was split into "Cisleithania" and "Transleithania", basically corresponding to the "Austrian" and "Hungarian" bits.
    As seen from Vienna NOT Budapest.

    Austrians being on near side (from their perspective) of the Leitha River, then intra-imperial border (the Cis-side?)

    Whereas Hungarians were across (the Trans-side!) of the Leitha.

    Wonder what Kraft-Ebbing thought about Cis versus Trans issues?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    rcs1000 said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    Irrespective of your views on trans, a blanket ban on the use of a word just because you don't like the ideology that led to it is very much the opposite of being a champion for free speech.

    How does the old saying go? Sometime like, It is not your support of speech you agree with that shows your support for free speech.
    There appears to be some confusion:

    To those who have asked - this is not restricting free speech.

    I did not request, nor did Elon agree, to suspend accounts for using the term ‘cis’. He is talking about “repeated, targeted harassment”.

    What this does is restore parity and common sense.




    Of course when ideology meets reality…..

    Me: I don’t recognise the term ‘cis’. Please don’t call me it.

    Trans activist: Tough. You can’t change who you are or how others see you.

    Me: Well…this is awkward…


    https://twitter.com/JamesEsses/status/1671440392665931777?s=20
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    There must be a temptation for a prominent Brexiteer to announce that they made a mistake and the only solution is to reverse the decision. Hunt would be ideal as Chancellor. He doesn't even need to play the repentant sinner.

    I have the feeling that any day now the dam is going to burst and if it does led a serious Brexiteer the pressure on Starmer could change everything and very quickly
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    In brighter news my older daughter, with some stellar predicted A Levels, has been invited to apply for Oxbridge

    In less bright news, she is sunk in teenage gloom and refuses to think about it. She’ll probably end up at Wolverhampton Technical College

    Sigh

    Could be worse, she could end up at Oxford.
    And Wolverhampton would be exciting for Leon to visit: all those slag heaps. Just a pity about HS2 though.



    These were days when my heart was volcanic

    As the scoriac rivers that roll —

    As the lavas that restlessly roll

    Their sulphurous currents down Yaanek

    In the ultimate climes of the pole —

    That groan as they roll down Mount Yaanek

    In the realms of the boreal pole.
    New station building and a West Midlands Metro tram extension serving it!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,421

    boulay said:

    148grss said:
    I, for one, welcome our new cetacean overlords.
    They're lobsters?
    Lobsters are crustaceans, not cetaceans!
    I know. :lol:
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,033
    Roger said:

    There must be a temptation for a prominent Brexiteer to announce that they made a mistake and the only solution is to reverse the decision. Hunt would be ideal as Chancellor. He doesn't even need to play the repentant sinner.

    I have the feeling that any day now the dam is going to burst and if it does led a serious Brexiteer the pressure on Starmer could change everything and very quickly

    Hope springs eternal
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,522

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    If enough idiots vote for him and he gets another MP gig, then surely the people have spoken/democracy in action, blah, blah, blah.
    But he ain't getting back in. He's done. Dusted. Labour are going to form the next government and Johnson will be irrelevant.

    I've asked the following question many times, but never get an answer. Who do PB Tories actually want to lead the party?

    Not my business, of course, but (pace ydoethur) Gove would be good - not bad at combative politics but also a genuine old-fashioned politician keen to change things for the good of the country. Some of his changes have been very controversial, but at least he enriches public debate. What do Sunak, Hunt, Mordaunt, etc. actually stand for? When did they last say anything new?
    I think Gove has been around too long, and there are too many hostages to fortune in choosing him. The problem with others like Alex Chalk, for example, is that he is too public school smooth, and is unlikely to hold his seat anyway. Tobias Ellwood has also annoyed too many with his rebellious antics, but there is a portion of the party establishment that would go for him.

    The puff piece for Penny Mordaunt in the Times today suggests that if she holds her own seat, she is in with a good shout. However, that is a pretty big "if".

    The big deal for the post defeat Tories will be "Character", hence the interesting positioning of Mordaunt and Ellwood.
    The novelisation of Yes, Prime Minister ends with The National Education Service, and Hacker sadly realising that whatever wins he might achieve, nothing fundamental would change.

    Gove's career has been about big, disruptive changes, whether at Education or Brexit. Both of those legacies are, at best, mixed, and his planning reforms have largely been blown up by Conservative Nimbies.

    I do wonder if he's had his Jim Hacker moment.
    This is very selectve in its overview of his career. Both at Justice and DEFRA he made significant and lasting change in both culture and practice which have had long reaching positive effects.

    He is very much a details, evidence based person. Looking at what the real problems are in departments and listening to all sides rather than just the usual lobbyists.
    Yet Justice is falling apart with cases taking years to get to court.
    My father also had Views on his record at DEFRA.

    Put it this way, you think I hate him? You should have heard what Dad had to say!
    Well at least now we know where you got your irrational hatred from.
    In case you've forgotten, he went to DEFRA and earned Dad's ire long after he'd screwed over education.
    In case you have forgotten education was screwed over long before Gove ever came on the scene. A third world system run entirely for vested interest and ideology.
    The irony of that post is while it was not necessarily true at the time Gove came into power, it was profoundly true of what he left. Especially in making it even more in hock to ideology - including some quite sinister ideologies - and vested interests which are not only not conducive to but positively opposed to the interests of children's education.

    There were many problems in education in 2010. The exam system was not good. The curriculum was years out of date. Appointments to senior posts were profoundly corrupt. LEAs were a shambles.

    What he left was an exam system that doesn't work at all, a curriculum that was based on naked nativism, a system of appointments to senior posts so corrupt that we actually have people who are entirely unqualified in senior positions and a series of expensive and mostly badly run academy chains taking the place of LEAs working as a gravy train for rather too many sponsoring organisations and their chums.

    And I would gently suggest that rather than hector me about it, and attribute my understanding of just how bad things to an 'irrational hatred' of Gove, you remember that I am an expert in the field and you are not. Perhaps therefore the reason I disdain Gove is because I understand fully just how badly he messed up and you do not?
    And yet the PISA ratings for the UK education system collapsed between 2000 and 2012 (from 7th to 24th in maths. Similar falls in Science and reading.) and only started to recover after the Tory reforms were introduced.
    On the other hand, there is a time lag in those ratings, surely? Not familiar with the details.

    (But I also wonder about lead in petrol.)
    The time lag idea is just ydoethur clutching at straws. Yes there will be a timelag but the idea it is a decade or more is rubbish.

    And besides even with a decade it still falls in Labour's lap.

    Maths rankings:

    2000 - 7th
    2003 - 17th
    2006 - 23rd
    2009 - 26th
    2012 - 24th
    2015 - 27th
    2018 - 17th

    The testing is done at age 15 so those taking it in 2009 and 2012 had spent almost their whole education under Labour. Those taking it in 2018 had had 8 of their 10 years education under coalition or Tory government.
    Interesting. On the other hand, (a) the teachers' curriculum development groups and 9b) local authorities, only some Tory/LD, are also involved.

    And lead was banned in petrol in 1999 in the UK, so - allowing for intrauterine environment - you would expect to see a kick up in, in fact, 2016.
    The reality is that... It's complicated.

    However, the UK’s average scores in reading and science did not improve significantly, and the improvement in the country’s position has been attributed in part to a drop in performance from other countries. Average scores across the OECD also fell in 2018 compared to 2015.

    https://schoolsweek.co.uk/pisa-2018-maths-up-no-improvement-in-reading-or-science/
    To be fair my point was not so much about the improvement on 2018. That could be a one off and sadly because of Covid we have no further evidence to see if it was sustained. My point was more to point out the rapid decline in results throughout the Labour years. As I said ydoethur's contention that this was due to lag effects and Labour made things better is definetley stretching credulity on the basis of that data.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I simply didn't have time to put up my Ascot selections today - probably no bad thing.

    It's strange - I'm really busy at work and I'm told everywhere else is busy. Perhaps that explains inflation - too much money chasing too few goods.

    The corollary of that is the return of debt - having maxed out our Covid cash pile, the middle classes are now reverting back to type and borrowing to pay for all the nonsense. The figure son personal and consumer debt are looking worrying again - the good old British need to consume whatever the cost....

    Is that right? I have seen it suggested we are interest rate insensitive because we are still spending covid cash.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,522
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    If enough idiots vote for him and he gets another MP gig, then surely the people have spoken/democracy in action, blah, blah, blah.
    But he ain't getting back in. He's done. Dusted. Labour are going to form the next government and Johnson will be irrelevant.

    I've asked the following question many times, but never get an answer. Who do PB Tories actually want to lead the party?

    Not my business, of course, but (pace ydoethur) Gove would be good - not bad at combative politics but also a genuine old-fashioned politician keen to change things for the good of the country. Some of his changes have been very controversial, but at least he enriches public debate. What do Sunak, Hunt, Mordaunt, etc. actually stand for? When did they last say anything new?
    I think Gove has been around too long, and there are too many hostages to fortune in choosing him. The problem with others like Alex Chalk, for example, is that he is too public school smooth, and is unlikely to hold his seat anyway. Tobias Ellwood has also annoyed too many with his rebellious antics, but there is a portion of the party establishment that would go for him.

    The puff piece for Penny Mordaunt in the Times today suggests that if she holds her own seat, she is in with a good shout. However, that is a pretty big "if".

    The big deal for the post defeat Tories will be "Character", hence the interesting positioning of Mordaunt and Ellwood.
    The novelisation of Yes, Prime Minister ends with The National Education Service, and Hacker sadly realising that whatever wins he might achieve, nothing fundamental would change.

    Gove's career has been about big, disruptive changes, whether at Education or Brexit. Both of those legacies are, at best, mixed, and his planning reforms have largely been blown up by Conservative Nimbies.

    I do wonder if he's had his Jim Hacker moment.
    This is very selectve in its overview of his career. Both at Justice and DEFRA he made significant and lasting change in both culture and practice which have had long reaching positive effects.

    He is very much a details, evidence based person. Looking at what the real problems are in departments and listening to all sides rather than just the usual lobbyists.
    Yet Justice is falling apart with cases taking years to get to court.
    My father also had Views on his record at DEFRA.

    Put it this way, you think I hate him? You should have heard what Dad had to say!
    Well at least now we know where you got your irrational hatred from.
    In case you've forgotten, he went to DEFRA and earned Dad's ire long after he'd screwed over education.
    In case you have forgotten education was screwed over long before Gove ever came on the scene. A third world system run entirely for vested interest and ideology.
    The irony of that post is while it was not necessarily true at the time Gove came into power, it was profoundly true of what he left. Especially in making it even more in hock to ideology - including some quite sinister ideologies - and vested interests which are not only not conducive to but positively opposed to the interests of children's education.

    There were many problems in education in 2010. The exam system was not good. The curriculum was years out of date. Appointments to senior posts were profoundly corrupt. LEAs were a shambles.

    What he left was an exam system that doesn't work at all, a curriculum that was based on naked nativism, a system of appointments to senior posts so corrupt that we actually have people who are entirely unqualified in senior positions and a series of expensive and mostly badly run academy chains taking the place of LEAs working as a gravy train for rather too many sponsoring organisations and their chums.

    And I would gently suggest that rather than hector me about it, and attribute my understanding of just how bad things to an 'irrational hatred' of Gove, you remember that I am an expert in the field and you are not. Perhaps therefore the reason I disdain Gove is because I understand fully just how badly he messed up and you do not?
    And yet the PISA ratings for the UK education system collapsed between 2000 and 2012 (from 7th to 24th in maths. Similar falls in Science and reading.) and only started to recover after the Tory reforms were introduced.
    On the other hand, there is a time lag in those ratings, surely? Not familiar with the details.

    (But I also wonder about lead in petrol.)
    The time lag idea is just ydoethur clutching at straws. Yes there will be a timelag but the idea it is a decade or more is rubbish.

    And besides even with a decade it still falls in Labour's lap.

    Maths rankings:

    2000 - 7th
    2003 - 17th
    2006 - 23rd
    2009 - 26th
    2012 - 24th
    2015 - 27th
    2018 - 17th

    The testing is done at age 15 so those taking it in 2009 and 2012 had spent almost their whole education under Labour. Those taking it in 2018 had had 8 of their 10 years education under coalition or Tory government.
    The curriculum changes did not take effect until 2016-17.

    Unless I was teaching the wrong curriculum all that time.

    The curriculum they were learning until that time was developed under Labour.

    And because they are tested at age 15, any changes will be measured about ten years after they take effect, because until that time you won't know what the changes in five years and upwards have been.

    So you are simply wrong.

    Frankly, you're not only wrong but making yourself look an idiot. Which I don't think you are as a successful engineer, but you clearly are ignorant and therefore spouting nonsense.

    This is why you should listen to experts.

    But I think you are too irrationally devoted to Gove to listen to reason.
    Hahahaha. What aload of garbage. So the decline throughout the whole of the Labour administration and continuing for 5 years after that was nothing to do with Labour? You are showing real desperation there.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    If enough idiots vote for him and he gets another MP gig, then surely the people have spoken/democracy in action, blah, blah, blah.
    But he ain't getting back in. He's done. Dusted. Labour are going to form the next government and Johnson will be irrelevant.

    I've asked the following question many times, but never get an answer. Who do PB Tories actually want to lead the party?

    Not my business, of course, but (pace ydoethur) Gove would be good - not bad at combative politics but also a genuine old-fashioned politician keen to change things for the good of the country. Some of his changes have been very controversial, but at least he enriches public debate. What do Sunak, Hunt, Mordaunt, etc. actually stand for? When did they last say anything new?
    I think Gove has been around too long, and there are too many hostages to fortune in choosing him. The problem with others like Alex Chalk, for example, is that he is too public school smooth, and is unlikely to hold his seat anyway. Tobias Ellwood has also annoyed too many with his rebellious antics, but there is a portion of the party establishment that would go for him.

    The puff piece for Penny Mordaunt in the Times today suggests that if she holds her own seat, she is in with a good shout. However, that is a pretty big "if".

    The big deal for the post defeat Tories will be "Character", hence the interesting positioning of Mordaunt and Ellwood.
    The novelisation of Yes, Prime Minister ends with The National Education Service, and Hacker sadly realising that whatever wins he might achieve, nothing fundamental would change.

    Gove's career has been about big, disruptive changes, whether at Education or Brexit. Both of those legacies are, at best, mixed, and his planning reforms have largely been blown up by Conservative Nimbies.

    I do wonder if he's had his Jim Hacker moment.
    This is very selectve in its overview of his career. Both at Justice and DEFRA he made significant and lasting change in both culture and practice which have had long reaching positive effects.

    He is very much a details, evidence based person. Looking at what the real problems are in departments and listening to all sides rather than just the usual lobbyists.
    Yet Justice is falling apart with cases taking years to get to court.
    My father also had Views on his record at DEFRA.

    Put it this way, you think I hate him? You should have heard what Dad had to say!
    Well at least now we know where you got your irrational hatred from.
    In case you've forgotten, he went to DEFRA and earned Dad's ire long after he'd screwed over education.
    In case you have forgotten education was screwed over long before Gove ever came on the scene. A third world system run entirely for vested interest and ideology.
    The irony of that post is while it was not necessarily true at the time Gove came into power, it was profoundly true of what he left. Especially in making it even more in hock to ideology - including some quite sinister ideologies - and vested interests which are not only not conducive to but positively opposed to the interests of children's education.

    There were many problems in education in 2010. The exam system was not good. The curriculum was years out of date. Appointments to senior posts were profoundly corrupt. LEAs were a shambles.

    What he left was an exam system that doesn't work at all, a curriculum that was based on naked nativism, a system of appointments to senior posts so corrupt that we actually have people who are entirely unqualified in senior positions and a series of expensive and mostly badly run academy chains taking the place of LEAs working as a gravy train for rather too many sponsoring organisations and their chums.

    And I would gently suggest that rather than hector me about it, and attribute my understanding of just how bad things to an 'irrational hatred' of Gove, you remember that I am an expert in the field and you are not. Perhaps therefore the reason I disdain Gove is because I understand fully just how badly he messed up and you do not?
    And yet the PISA ratings for the UK education system collapsed between 2000 and 2012 (from 7th to 24th in maths. Similar falls in Science and reading.) and only started to recover after the Tory reforms were introduced.
    On the other hand, there is a time lag in those ratings, surely? Not familiar with the details.

    (But I also wonder about lead in petrol.)
    The time lag idea is just ydoethur clutching at straws. Yes there will be a timelag but the idea it is a decade or more is rubbish.

    And besides even with a decade it still falls in Labour's lap.

    Maths rankings:

    2000 - 7th
    2003 - 17th
    2006 - 23rd
    2009 - 26th
    2012 - 24th
    2015 - 27th
    2018 - 17th

    The testing is done at age 15 so those taking it in 2009 and 2012 had spent almost their whole education under Labour. Those taking it in 2018 had had 8 of their 10 years education under coalition or Tory government.
    Interesting. On the other hand, (a) the teachers' curriculum development groups and 9b) local authorities, only some Tory/LD, are also involved.

    And lead was banned in petrol in 1999 in the UK, so - allowing for intrauterine environment - you would expect to see a kick up in, in fact, 2016.
    The reality is that... It's complicated.

    However, the UK’s average scores in reading and science did not improve significantly, and the improvement in the country’s position has been attributed in part to a drop in performance from other countries. Average scores across the OECD also fell in 2018 compared to 2015.

    https://schoolsweek.co.uk/pisa-2018-maths-up-no-improvement-in-reading-or-science/
    To be fair my point was not so much about the improvement on 2018. That could be a one off and sadly because of Covid we have no further evidence to see if it was sustained. My point was more to point out the rapid decline in results throughout the Labour years. As I said ydoethur's contention that this was due to lag effects and Labour made things better is definetley stretching credulity on the basis of that data.
    Compelling post.

    The reality is, Labour are bad for our kids. The Tories are better.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    rcs1000 said:

    Farooq said:

    Taz said:

    WillG said:

    The word "cisgender" is now banned on Twitter. This from the "free speech absolutist" that allowed all the Nazis back on.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/14f1uji/well_its_official_now_cis_is_a_slur_atleast_on/

    Reminds me what Hannah Arendt said about fascists, that they just use words as weapons and have no responsibility for them as they do not believe in truth.

    Did he actually allow real Nazis on or just people with a different view. Twitter is very much ‘everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ territory.

    Also as stupid as a term Cisgender is it should not be banned.
    How is it stupid? How else do you express the opposite of "transgender"?
    "Normal"?
    Irrespective of your views on trans, a blanket ban on the use of a word just because you don't like the ideology that led to it is very much the opposite of being a champion for free speech.

    How does the old saying go? Sometime like, It is not your support of speech you agree with that shows your support for free speech.
    There appears to be some confusion:

    To those who have asked - this is not restricting free speech.

    I did not request, nor did Elon agree, to suspend accounts for using the term ‘cis’. He is talking about “repeated, targeted harassment”.

    What this does is restore parity and common sense.




    Of course when ideology meets reality…..

    Me: I don’t recognise the term ‘cis’. Please don’t call me it.

    Trans activist: Tough. You can’t change who you are or how others see you.

    Me: Well…this is awkward…


    https://twitter.com/JamesEsses/status/1671440392665931777?s=20
    It isn't common sense at all. If he wants to ban harassment, he can do that through long standing bans on harassment. He has gone further than that and said the term "cisgender", a neutral term, is a slur.

    And yes, Musk has allowed outright neo-Nazi groups and individuals back on the platform:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2022/12/02/elon-musk-nazis-kanye-twitter-andrew-anglin/amp/

    If anyone thinks this is just a "different opinion" then they are Nazi sympathisers.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,892

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    You are thinking of Admiral King.

    Who was NOT anti-British or anti-RN, instead pro-American and pro-USN.

    Lot of bilge pumped out them and since by Brits who thought America should necessarily defer to British interests and opinions, as opposed to their own obviously less-important concerns.

    Such as the Japanese Navy.
    Yeah except America's disinclination to use convoys or black out the east coast led to Nazi U-boats' second "happy time". This is often put down to Admiral King's refusal to listen to British advice. Either way, it cost a lot of American sailors their lives. The Japanese Navy rarely ventured into the Atlantic.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,040
    A varied set of local by-elections tomorrow. They are as follows: Bath and NE Somerset (Lab defence x2); Southampton ( Lab x2, Con x1); Stockton on Tees ( Con x2; West Devon (Green x1); West Lancashire ( new ward but Our West Lancashire X1): Wyre ( Lab x1, Wyre Alliance elected as UKIP x1).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    You are thinking of Admiral King.

    Who was NOT anti-British or anti-RN, instead pro-American and pro-USN.

    Lot of bilge pumped out them and since by Brits who thought America should necessarily defer to British interests and opinions, as opposed to their own obviously less-important concerns.

    Such as the Japanese Navy.
    Yeah except America's disinclination to use convoys or black out the east coast led to Nazi U-boats' second "happy time". This is often put down to Admiral King's refusal to listen to British advice. Either way, it cost a lot of American sailors their lives. The Japanese Navy rarely ventured into the Atlantic.
    Interestingly, Japanese warships did serve in the Mediterranean during WW1. When they were on our side, natch.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    You are thinking of Admiral King.

    Who was NOT anti-British or anti-RN, instead pro-American and pro-USN.

    Lot of bilge pumped out them and since by Brits who thought America should necessarily defer to British interests and opinions, as opposed to their own obviously less-important concerns.

    Such as the Japanese Navy.
    Yeah except America's disinclination to use convoys or black out the east coast led to Nazi U-boats' second "happy time". This is often put down to Admiral King's refusal to listen to British advice. Either way, it cost a lot of American sailors their lives. The Japanese Navy rarely ventured into the Atlantic.
    Not surprisingly - think of the logistics

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    An interesting theory on what happened to the Kahhovka dam, from an Estonian source who appears to be well-informed and who is quoted by reputable journalists:

    The destruction of the Kahhovka dam has been a major source of concern for the Ukrainians. And also the Western media's fake balanced attitude. There is also enough information today to be convinced that it was the Russians who did it. If there had been a Ukrainian missile strike, U.S. satellites would have shown it very well.

    The informed working version is currently as follows. The dam was damaged anyway and some things were not working properly there. The Russians wanted to use a controlled explosion to raise the flow to avoid flooding around the dam. As usual for the Russians, things got out of control. The explosion was more massive than they wanted.


    The whole thread is worth a read:

    https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1671504601722306560

    Doesn't fit with Russians near the dam being told 30 minutes before to get the hell out of Dodge.

    Much more likely is senior Russians creating a "we didn't mean to" narrative - to get themselves an excuse ahead of the War Crime Trials.

    Is the BBC still being even handed as to who might have been behind the, er, collapse of the dam?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    148grss said:
    I find myself siding with the cetaceans in this fight
    Why? They are attacking sailing boats, not trawlers. Sailing boats do not destroy the orca's foodchain. If they were attacking fishing boats you would have a point...
    Honestly, I'd love to have the luxury of distinguishing between this and that kind of boat, and between this and that use of boats. But.

    The minute you build a boat and go about launching it into the water, you're on a slippery slope.
    Or on the crest of a wave if you are a glass half full type sailor. Lovely play on words though.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,892
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I simply didn't have time to put up my Ascot selections today - probably no bad thing.

    It's strange - I'm really busy at work and I'm told everywhere else is busy. Perhaps that explains inflation - too much money chasing too few goods.

    The corollary of that is the return of debt - having maxed out our Covid cash pile, the middle classes are now reverting back to type and borrowing to pay for all the nonsense. The figure son personal and consumer debt are looking worrying again - the good old British need to consume whatever the cost....

    Judging by Sainsbury's empty-ish carpark this morning, we've all been hoodwinked by Leon into taking foreign holidays. Inside Sainsbury's, the pharmacy is now closed, the tills have a mysterious new gadget on the cash registers, and all the operators were wearing headsets.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited June 2023
    Survation's 18% Labour lead just out is the highest for 4 months.

    The mean Labour lead of the last 6 national opinion polls is 19.33% and there's remarkable convergence too with the deviation only between 18% and 22%.

    Every single one of those polls also has the combined Lab-LibDem percentage between 55-58% which I suggest is the most significant figure given the likely anti-Conservative tactical vote.

    All 6 polls have the Conservatives in the 20's.

    Them's the facts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    geoffw said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    You are thinking of Admiral King.

    Who was NOT anti-British or anti-RN, instead pro-American and pro-USN.

    Lot of bilge pumped out them and since by Brits who thought America should necessarily defer to British interests and opinions, as opposed to their own obviously less-important concerns.

    Such as the Japanese Navy.
    Yeah except America's disinclination to use convoys or black out the east coast led to Nazi U-boats' second "happy time". This is often put down to Admiral King's refusal to listen to British advice. Either way, it cost a lot of American sailors their lives. The Japanese Navy rarely ventured into the Atlantic.
    Not surprisingly - think of the logistics

    Not easy to keep Nippon home....
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    If enough idiots vote for him and he gets another MP gig, then surely the people have spoken/democracy in action, blah, blah, blah.
    But he ain't getting back in. He's done. Dusted. Labour are going to form the next government and Johnson will be irrelevant.

    I've asked the following question many times, but never get an answer. Who do PB Tories actually want to lead the party?

    Not my business, of course, but (pace ydoethur) Gove would be good - not bad at combative politics but also a genuine old-fashioned politician keen to change things for the good of the country. Some of his changes have been very controversial, but at least he enriches public debate. What do Sunak, Hunt, Mordaunt, etc. actually stand for? When did they last say anything new?
    I think Gove has been around too long, and there are too many hostages to fortune in choosing him. The problem with others like Alex Chalk, for example, is that he is too public school smooth, and is unlikely to hold his seat anyway. Tobias Ellwood has also annoyed too many with his rebellious antics, but there is a portion of the party establishment that would go for him.

    The puff piece for Penny Mordaunt in the Times today suggests that if she holds her own seat, she is in with a good shout. However, that is a pretty big "if".

    The big deal for the post defeat Tories will be "Character", hence the interesting positioning of Mordaunt and Ellwood.
    The novelisation of Yes, Prime Minister ends with The National Education Service, and Hacker sadly realising that whatever wins he might achieve, nothing fundamental would change.

    Gove's career has been about big, disruptive changes, whether at Education or Brexit. Both of those legacies are, at best, mixed, and his planning reforms have largely been blown up by Conservative Nimbies.

    I do wonder if he's had his Jim Hacker moment.
    This is very selectve in its overview of his career. Both at Justice and DEFRA he made significant and lasting change in both culture and practice which have had long reaching positive effects.

    He is very much a details, evidence based person. Looking at what the real problems are in departments and listening to all sides rather than just the usual lobbyists.
    Yet Justice is falling apart with cases taking years to get to court.
    My father also had Views on his record at DEFRA.

    Put it this way, you think I hate him? You should have heard what Dad had to say!
    Well at least now we know where you got your irrational hatred from.
    In case you've forgotten, he went to DEFRA and earned Dad's ire long after he'd screwed over education.
    In case you have forgotten education was screwed over long before Gove ever came on the scene. A third world system run entirely for vested interest and ideology.
    The irony of that post is while it was not necessarily true at the time Gove came into power, it was profoundly true of what he left. Especially in making it even more in hock to ideology - including some quite sinister ideologies - and vested interests which are not only not conducive to but positively opposed to the interests of children's education.

    There were many problems in education in 2010. The exam system was not good. The curriculum was years out of date. Appointments to senior posts were profoundly corrupt. LEAs were a shambles.

    What he left was an exam system that doesn't work at all, a curriculum that was based on naked nativism, a system of appointments to senior posts so corrupt that we actually have people who are entirely unqualified in senior positions and a series of expensive and mostly badly run academy chains taking the place of LEAs working as a gravy train for rather too many sponsoring organisations and their chums.

    And I would gently suggest that rather than hector me about it, and attribute my understanding of just how bad things to an 'irrational hatred' of Gove, you remember that I am an expert in the field and you are not. Perhaps therefore the reason I disdain Gove is because I understand fully just how badly he messed up and you do not?
    And yet the PISA ratings for the UK education system collapsed between 2000 and 2012 (from 7th to 24th in maths. Similar falls in Science and reading.) and only started to recover after the Tory reforms were introduced.
    On the other hand, there is a time lag in those ratings, surely? Not familiar with the details.

    (But I also wonder about lead in petrol.)
    The time lag idea is just ydoethur clutching at straws. Yes there will be a timelag but the idea it is a decade or more is rubbish.

    And besides even with a decade it still falls in Labour's lap.

    Maths rankings:

    2000 - 7th
    2003 - 17th
    2006 - 23rd
    2009 - 26th
    2012 - 24th
    2015 - 27th
    2018 - 17th

    The testing is done at age 15 so those taking it in 2009 and 2012 had spent almost their whole education under Labour. Those taking it in 2018 had had 8 of their 10 years education under coalition or Tory government.
    The curriculum changes did not take effect until 2016-17.

    Unless I was teaching the wrong curriculum all that time.

    The curriculum they were learning until that time was developed under Labour.

    And because they are tested at age 15, any changes will be measured about ten years after they take effect, because until that time you won't know what the changes in five years and upwards have been.

    So you are simply wrong.

    Frankly, you're not only wrong but making yourself look an idiot. Which I don't think you are as a successful engineer, but you clearly are ignorant and therefore spouting nonsense.

    This is why you should listen to experts.

    But I think you are too irrationally devoted to Gove to listen to reason.
    Hahahaha. What aload of garbage. So the decline throughout the whole of the Labour administration and continuing for 5 years after that was nothing to do with Labour? You are showing real desperation there.
    What truly baffles me over the last 13 years is that even though I broadly believe in the policies that the government has followed there's in fact no discernible benefit. Rather the opposite.

    Brexit is of course some part of that - I think the easiest way would be to adjudge it (say) 3 years of stagnation.

    We're left though with a whole load of Tory government years that have achieved bugger all.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    People should be considered by what they are, not what they're not.

    Protestant.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited June 2023

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    You are thinking of Admiral King.

    Who was NOT anti-British or anti-RN, instead pro-American and pro-USN.

    Lot of bilge pumped out them and since by Brits who thought America should necessarily defer to British interests and opinions, as opposed to their own obviously less-important concerns.

    Such as the Japanese Navy.
    Yeah except America's disinclination to use convoys or black out the east coast led to Nazi U-boats' second "happy time". This is often put down to Admiral King's refusal to listen to British advice. Either way, it cost a lot of American sailors their lives. The Japanese Navy rarely ventured into the Atlantic.
    True, esp. last sentance!

    Though IIRC the East (and Gulf) Coast non-blackout was IIRC more serious problem than lack of convoying.

    And blackout was NOT one of Admiral King's direct responsibilities.

    ADDENDUM - Point still stands: British criticisms of Admiral King should be seasoned with at least a few grains of salt . . . same as American criticisms of Field Marshall Montgomery.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,579
    "Normal" is such an awful word to use for someone, and one that is designed to pigeonhole people into very restrictive groups.

    For instance: I'm CIS male. I'm straight. I'm tall, and often am slightly bearded. I therefore fit very well into people's pigeonholes for 'male'. To many, I'd be 'normal'.

    But when it comes to the roles I fulfil, it's more muddy. I'm a stay-at-home dad. I'm the main carer for a child. I do most of the cooking. I do most of the cleaning. when it comes to roles, I'm fulfilling most of the traditional female role. In that respect, I am not 'normal' according to the old stereotypes.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    In brighter news my older daughter, with some stellar predicted A Levels, has been invited to apply for Oxbridge

    In less bright news, she is sunk in teenage gloom and refuses to think about it. She’ll probably end up at Wolverhampton Technical College

    Sigh

    No snark intended. Invited by who? Anyone can apply. Do you mean the school has suggested it?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,892

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm getting a sense of Not Trump vs Not Biden for WH24. Can't say exactly how we get there but I think that somehow we will.

    It could be Not Trump vs Not Biden even if Trump and Biden are the candidates.
    Sorry I'm not getting that, William? How do you mean?
    I mean the two voting blocs could be "Not Biden" and "Not Trump", rather than a positive endorsement of either of them.
    How screwed up is American politics, when two massively divisive octogenarians (by the end of their terms) are somehow the favourites? Let’s hope the other candidates get a look-in on both sides.
    In 1944 the choice was between a divisive, older (by contemporary standards) incumbent with obvious health issues (though seriousness was not common knowledge) who'd clearly aged in office, versus a young, energetic challenger with strong record as elected official and big state governor.

    Voters chose age and cunning over youth and vigor - much to the satisfaction of say 96% of UKers, then & now.

    Actually, sounds like a potential general election battle between Biden and DeSantis.
    Just reading R. C. Stern's new history of the US Navy in the Atlantic and Europe in - and before - WW2, which is bringing up some interesting perspectives on FDR and his relations with the UK. But only some way in.
    I seem to remember there was a US admiral at the time whose surname was, funnily enough, “England” or “English” who absolutely hated us and the RN with a passion. It really gummed up naval intelligence cooperation for a time with Britain.
    You are thinking of Admiral King.

    Who was NOT anti-British or anti-RN, instead pro-American and pro-USN.

    Lot of bilge pumped out them and since by Brits who thought America should necessarily defer to British interests and opinions, as opposed to their own obviously less-important concerns.

    Such as the Japanese Navy.
    Yeah except America's disinclination to use convoys or black out the east coast led to Nazi U-boats' second "happy time". This is often put down to Admiral King's refusal to listen to British advice. Either way, it cost a lot of American sailors their lives. The Japanese Navy rarely ventured into the Atlantic.
    Interestingly, Japanese warships did serve in the Mediterranean during WW1. When they were on our side, natch.
    Isn't this why Japanese school uniforms look like turn of the century Royal Navy kit? At least for girls.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    viewcode said:

    People should be considered by what they are, not what they're not.

    Protestant.

    Also "atheist". Possibly "agnostic", but I wouldn't swear to it
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 47% (+2)
    CON: 29% (+1)
    LDM: 11% (-1)
    REF: 3% (=)
    GRN: 3% (-1)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    Via @Survation, On 15-19 June,
    Changes w/ 24-28 April.
This discussion has been closed.