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Why I’m betting on 40/1 Nikki Haley for the GOP nomination – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,411
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    My older daughter turns 17 today. A complex age for any human. And I immediately thought of the Janis Ian song, and found this exquisite live rendition on The Old Grey Whistle Test

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMUz2TNMvL0

    Just absolutely spine-tingling. Can you imagine being in that audience and hearing this LIVE for the first time. A cold clear copper bottomed masterpiece of a song. The voice, the guitar work, the immortal tune, the poignant lyrics, everything. Ah, fuck. What 'appened to music?

    Great song. Do we always have to include that hangdog 'better in my day' bit at the end though? We're the same age (ish) but my son is double 17. That's 34 (for the non accountants). It's interestingly poised now, our relationship. 62 plays 34. He has a clear edge in almost everything.
    Yes, unfortunately, we do have to include the "better in my day" bit because it is interesting. Because, for the first time in many decades, this tired old meme is provably true and says something important about politics

    Thus elevating the comment from "Oooh I have a family moment and here's a nice song" to something a shade more interesting that might make a Gazette piece so I'm trying it out from different angles
    Hmm, ok. I don't agree with you though. I don't think this 'better in my day' (about music) is any different to the standard one about anything else.

    And there's nothing wrong with just sharing the family moment!
    Where is the equivalent - post, say, 2010 - of a pop song as exquisite, delicate and moving as "At 17"? It does not exist

    Amy Winehouse is much missed. She was the very last of the Golden Age. The Tintoretto of the Pop Music Renaissance
    I've dropped off tracking new releases (being 62) and in any case there's so much product these days on so many platforms you can't get your arms around it as you once could. It used to be that if you were into music and there was a great song released you'd be bound to hear it. The corollary was if you didn't hear something it can't have been that good. This is no longer the case. There's tons of high quality new music now that unless you devote yourself to seeking it out (which you won't at your age) you will not discover. But it's there.

    Eg what I've noticed is when I do random deep dives into recent music, or catch it on soundtracks for tv dramas, I come across plenty of absolutely terrific songs. Songs just as good as those on my familiar playlists. Songs whereby I know that if I listened to them a lot, and could associate them with my younger life, thus generating a sweet nostalgia hit, could take their place as 'classics' (for me). I don't have the time or inclination to do this now, so they don't, but they could. They are objectively good enough, is my point.

    So although I'd like to agree that the stuff I've curated and love from many moons ago constitutes a 'Golden Age' (because it's nice to believe that), I kind of know that it isn't. It's another heart v head thing, this. Heart says you're right that music used to be better. Head says it's nonsense.
    And yet I have a friend whose job is music reviewing and critiquing. He lives for this. And he LOVES discovering new talent

    And he says it simply isn’t there any more. He goes to two gigs a week. Indeed it’s his theory that Winehouse was the last of the greats (I borrowed it)

    He has various theories why

    There is also factual evidence that music has got more simplistic, crude and lyrically vulgar and coarse
    Read Ted Gioia’s substack if you want to find new music.
    He’s older than you and finds plenty of good stuff. Best music critic currently writing.
    OK, Boomer
    Man, I get that you’re jaded with modern pop music. If truth be told, so am I. There are no new fucking essential bands coming through. Last one was probably, what, Nirvana? A group that straddled the mainstream and received critical acclaim, globally.

    Yeah there’s plenty of pop behemoths, but they all leave me cold, your Beyoncés, Coldplays, fucking Sheeran (lovely guy, but Jesus fuck his music is shite).

    But times have changed. The internet has fragmented everything. Music’s fragmented. The charts are full of shite (but, to an extent, they always have been).

    But there’s always good music out there. I’ve been obsessed, obsessed with music since I was about 10. All times, all genres, from bluegrass and the swing bands, the blues, into the all conquering rock from the Beatles on. Zeppelin. Punk. Post-punk. Grunge. Indie. Britpop. Electronica. Hip hop. Turntablism. Fucking act after act, genre after genre.

    When someone asks me what music I like after 15 seconds their eyeballs are glassy and they’re slowly edging away, desperate to escape.

    And you know how much I know about music, really? Despite all the music I’ve listened to, the books I’ve read, the magazines I bought? The square root of fuck all.

    I get sad when I think about all the great music I’ll never listen to, like all the amazing books I’ll never read.

    Th’s endless good music, you’re just not looking hard enough. The media, the scenes themselves, are so fragmented now, the charts are meaningless, you’ve got to work a bit harder. The acts might not necessarily be new - Paul Weller’s latest is very good, as it the recent album by Steve Mason, former Beta Band frontman - but by God there’s a torrent of good music coming out. So much it overwhelms me.

    6music have just recruited a new DJ called Deb Grant, her new show starts soon but she sat in for someone last week on the 9 to midnight slot and she just fucking smashed it out of the park. Great tune after great tune, all eras, genres, and I’d heard maybe 1 in 20 of them, if that.

    You’re an intrepid explorer, explore music. Go backwards, go outwards, go up and down and round about. It’s there, just waiting to be discovered. Isn’t that exciting?
    I explore all the time, believe me. The sensation of discovering a great new sound is addictive, and it still occasionally happens

    But it is now NOT happening to an extent where I believe there has been a discernible decline, and this tendency is firming not slowing

    It doesn't really matter in the wider scheme. There was a marvellous period of continuous brilliance in the West, the Golden age of western pop music - 1960-2010. Great for us, we got lucky, but for our kids? Soz

    But this is not unexpected. It is just the same as the Italian Renaissance which shone for about 200-250 years or the Chinese peak in porcelain which lasted for a couple of generations or the great era of opera which lasted about a century or.... and so on, and so on. Art forms rise and fall. This is a known thing. It is happening to us. Other art forms will - we hope - rise and replace "popular music"

    That is my take. Others are available

    I'd start it a bit before 1960. You surely can't leave out Elvis, Buddy and Cliff.
  • Options
    WestieWestie Posts: 426
    edited May 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65696801

    Our drugs policy is a disaster.

    What would be your undisastrous policy?
    Looks to me like our current approach is the worst of all worlds.

    We either need international agreement to go full on war on drugs, or go all in on regulated supply and treatment rooms etc.
    When you say 'drugs', to what do you refer?
    See the BBC link that your post was replying to, for an example.
    And I raise you this:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-52648026

    or this:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-47341941

    or this:
    https://www.vanguardngr.com/2021/10/at-least-17-dead-in-russia-after-drinking-adulterated-alcohol/

    etc, etc.

    But that actually does not answer my question. Are you saying that cannabis, heroin, MDMA, ketamine, etc should all be easily available?
    They are easily available, we just pretend they're not.
    I know where to go to get some Nurofen or a bottle of whisky. I don't know where to go to score some heroin. So 'easily available' very much depends on context.

    You could buy gear in any town in England in about 15 minutes just by asking the scraggiest people you can find on the street.
    The bus station in Uttoxeter was always *allegedly* the place when I was a teenager. But I don't know of the place around here - yet I know there are some, as there was a murder by a drug dealer five or so years ago.

    But I fear if I was to go up to the scraggiest person I can find on the street to ask them for some gear, they'll probably think I'm police...

    (On several occasions I've had people ask me if I'm police. Once in Slough when on a hike, with rucksack, once in Stepney Green where my crime was wearing a white shirt, and another outside March. I guess I just have the air. I'm unconvinced this is a good thing ...)
    The bar at SOAS was always a winner but now I rock up to lectures at Birkbeck after work in my suit I’d likely get some funny looks.
    The SOAS bar was not for buying eighths of hash. The amounts traded there were several orders of magnitude higher.
    Taking "several" as 3+, that's blocks in excess of 3.5kg. Most I remember from SOAS is a girl who dealt in ounces.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,300
    ping said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65696801

    Our drugs policy is a disaster.

    What would be your undisastrous policy?
    Looks to me like our current approach is the worst of all worlds.

    We either need international agreement to go full on war on drugs, or go all in on regulated supply and treatment rooms etc.
    When you say 'drugs', to what do you refer?
    See the BBC link that your post was replying to, for an example.
    And I raise you this:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-52648026

    or this:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-47341941

    or this:
    https://www.vanguardngr.com/2021/10/at-least-17-dead-in-russia-after-drinking-adulterated-alcohol/

    etc, etc.

    But that actually does not answer my question. Are you saying that cannabis, heroin, MDMA, ketamine, etc should all be easily available?
    They are easily available, we just pretend they're not.
    I know where to go to get some Nurofen or a bottle of whisky. I don't know where to go to score some heroin. So 'easily available' very much depends on context.

    You could buy gear in any town in England in about 15 minutes just by asking the scraggiest people you can find on the street.
    The bus station in Uttoxeter was always *allegedly* the place when I was a teenager. But I don't know of the place around here - yet I know there are some, as there was a murder by a drug dealer five or so years ago.

    But I fear if I was to go up to the scraggiest person I can find on the street to ask them for some gear, they'll probably think I'm police...

    (On several occasions I've had people ask me if I'm police. Once in Slough when on a hike, with rucksack, once in Stepney Green where my crime was wearing a white shirt, and another outside March. I guess I just have the air. I'm unconvinced this is a good thing ...)
    The bar at SOAS was always a winner but now I rock up to lectures at Birkbeck after work in my suit I’d likely get some funny looks.
    The SOAS bar was not for buying eighths of hash. The amounts traded there were several orders of magnitude higher.
    Not any more. Mt ex wife went to SOAS within the last decade. It is now extremely Woke and jihadi
    Interesting combination.
    If you think Wokeism and Islamism are contradictory you don't get out much
    There is a fascinating juxtaposition (convergence?) between Ayatollah Khomeni’s jurisprudence on transgender people and the contemporary pro-trans movement.
    That's absolutely right

    From what I have heard (from insiders) a surprising number of referrals to the Tavistock trans-gender clinic come from fundamentalist Muslims parents, who would rather have a trans child than a gay child. The latter is haram, the former is barely covered in the Koran. So, trans is better

    And Iran is "weirdly" tolerant of trans people but executes gays

    "Iran is the only Islamic country where the sex reassignment surgery (SRS) is recognized"

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9745420/
    There is nothing about transgender people (mukannathun/مُخَنَّثون) in the Glorious Quran. They are mentioned in the hadith sharif (al-Bukhari) in which the Prophet Muhammed (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) orders them into exile
    Can I just take this moment to thank you for being the most outrageous, obnoxious, amusing and interesting contributor to PB?

    You’re the only poster who manages to surprise me with every post.

    Your opinions, anecdotes and references are utterly unpredictable.

    Well done, sir, for keeping this site fresh!
    Cheers. It's shame that approximately 70% of my ripping yarns would be utterly beyond the pale for the bourgeoisie pearl clutchers on here.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,919

    I've got a feeling those immigration numbers are going to be politically catastrophic for the government tomorrow.

    They have done virtually nothing to politically prepare the ground for them.

    How can then - they've been using the boat people as a distraction and they won't come to 20,000 or less than 2.5%
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,384
    ping said:

    EPG said:

    Nirvana like Amy never got a number one. Paper Lace did and were on that basis a bigger pop act. Funny world.

    “All my favourite singers couldn’t sing” (Silver Jews)

    And all my favourite albums were commercial flops, on release.

    “The holy bible” by the manics is a particular classic, imo, that has aged like a fine wine.
    A reference to Dylan surely - but he did get a number one in the States, making him poptastic!
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,046
    edited May 2023
    EPG said:

    Nirvana like Amy never got a number one. Paper Lace did and were on that basis a bigger pop act. Funny world.

    Depeche Mode never got a number one single, but they had two number one albums in the 1990s. Here is their latest single:

    You won't do well to silence me
    With your words or wagging tongue
    With your long, tall tales of sorrow
    Your song yet to be sung
    I won't be offended
    If I'm left across the great divide
    Believe me they will follow
    Just to watch another angel die
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,628
    EPG said:

    Nirvana like Amy never got a number one. Paper Lace did and were on that basis a bigger pop act. Funny world.

    Bob Dylan hasn't either.
    But Joe Dolce has.
    Go figure.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,688
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65696801

    Our drugs policy is a disaster.

    What would be your undisastrous policy?
    Looks to me like our current approach is the worst of all worlds.

    We either need international agreement to go full on war on drugs, or go all in on regulated supply and treatment rooms etc.
    When you say 'drugs', to what do you refer?
    See the BBC link that your post was replying to, for an example.
    And I raise you this:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-52648026

    or this:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-47341941

    or this:
    https://www.vanguardngr.com/2021/10/at-least-17-dead-in-russia-after-drinking-adulterated-alcohol/

    etc, etc.

    But that actually does not answer my question. Are you saying that cannabis, heroin, MDMA, ketamine, etc should all be easily available?
    They are easily available, we just pretend they're not.
    I know where to go to get some Nurofen or a bottle of whisky. I don't know where to go to score some heroin. So 'easily available' very much depends on context.

    You could buy gear in any town in England in about 15 minutes just by asking the scraggiest people you can find on the street.
    The bus station in Uttoxeter was always *allegedly* the place when I was a teenager. But I don't know of the place around here - yet I know there are some, as there was a murder by a drug dealer five or so years ago.

    But I fear if I was to go up to the scraggiest person I can find on the street to ask them for some gear, they'll probably think I'm police...

    (On several occasions I've had people ask me if I'm police. Once in Slough when on a hike, with rucksack, once in Stepney Green where my crime was wearing a white shirt, and another outside March. I guess I just have the air. I'm unconvinced this is a good thing ...)
    The bar at SOAS was always a winner but now I rock up to lectures at Birkbeck after work in my suit I’d likely get some funny looks.
    The SOAS bar was not for buying eighths of hash. The amounts traded there were several orders of magnitude higher.
    Not any more. Mt ex wife went to SOAS within the last decade. It is now extremely Woke and jihadi
    Interesting combination.
    If you think Wokeism and Islamism are contradictory you don't get out much
    There is a fascinating juxtaposition (convergence?) between Ayatollah Khomeni’s jurisprudence on transgender people and the contemporary pro-trans movement.
    That's absolutely right

    From what I have heard (from insiders) a surprising number of referrals to the Tavistock trans-gender clinic come from fundamentalist Muslims parents, who would rather have a trans child than a gay child. The latter is haram, the former is barely covered in the Koran. So, trans is better

    And Iran is "weirdly" tolerant of trans people but executes gays

    "Iran is the only Islamic country where the sex reassignment surgery (SRS) is recognized"

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9745420/
    There is nothing about transgender people (mukannathun/مُخَنَّثون) in the Glorious Quran. They are mentioned in the hadith sharif (al-Bukhari) in which the Prophet Muhammed (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) orders them into exile
    I have to check. Is this another "Fingringhoe"?
  • Options
    pm215pm215 Posts: 995
    kle4 said:

    Since electoral reform has been known to come up here from time to time, bunch of nerds, including when it is and isn't ok to make changes without referenda, I'm surprised I've not seen a suggestion of doing what Greece does, with reforms taking place only several elections down the road, which is quite novel.

    Interesting. The other place I've seen "rules changes are on a delay" is the Hugo Awards (which had to change its nomination rules after a group of people decided to exploit a weakness to slate-voting in the old rules...)
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,688
    dixiedean said:

    EPG said:

    Nirvana like Amy never got a number one. Paper Lace did and were on that basis a bigger pop act. Funny world.

    Bob Dylan hasn't either.
    But Joe Dolce has.
    Go figure.
    And with a weary air of inevitability, the laboured joke drags it's ragged arse across the horizon and, briefly before dying, speaks

    "oh, shutuppa you face"

    And then expires, air issuing from both ends as it deflates. Pffffffff-thssss.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,009
    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,548
    RIP Tina Turner.

    A true inspiration for me - really. Her complete renaissance in the 80s after decades of abuse and manipulation is a hell of a testament to a women whose character matched her voice in strength and vivacity.

    A sex symbol in her 40s, 50s and beyond too - a confident and self-possessed woman, who took control of her life and didn’t look back. Great music too.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,009
    I am going to go with the death of J Dilla, January 2006 as the bookend, although no doubt to accusations of pseudery.

    There is a J Dilla beat which affects most pop music that followed him.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,098

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,553
    edited May 2023
    ping said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65696801

    Our drugs policy is a disaster.

    What would be your undisastrous policy?
    Looks to me like our current approach is the worst of all worlds.

    We either need international agreement to go full on war on drugs, or go all in on regulated supply and treatment rooms etc.
    When you say 'drugs', to what do you refer?
    See the BBC link that your post was replying to, for an example.
    And I raise you this:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-52648026

    or this:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-47341941

    or this:
    https://www.vanguardngr.com/2021/10/at-least-17-dead-in-russia-after-drinking-adulterated-alcohol/

    etc, etc.

    But that actually does not answer my question. Are you saying that cannabis, heroin, MDMA, ketamine, etc should all be easily available?
    They are easily available, we just pretend they're not.
    I know where to go to get some Nurofen or a bottle of whisky. I don't know where to go to score some heroin. So 'easily available' very much depends on context.

    You could buy gear in any town in England in about 15 minutes just by asking the scraggiest people you can find on the street.
    The bus station in Uttoxeter was always *allegedly* the place when I was a teenager. But I don't know of the place around here - yet I know there are some, as there was a murder by a drug dealer five or so years ago.

    But I fear if I was to go up to the scraggiest person I can find on the street to ask them for some gear, they'll probably think I'm police...

    (On several occasions I've had people ask me if I'm police. Once in Slough when on a hike, with rucksack, once in Stepney Green where my crime was wearing a white shirt, and another outside March. I guess I just have the air. I'm unconvinced this is a good thing ...)
    The bar at SOAS was always a winner but now I rock up to lectures at Birkbeck after work in my suit I’d likely get some funny looks.
    The SOAS bar was not for buying eighths of hash. The amounts traded there were several orders of magnitude higher.
    Not any more. Mt ex wife went to SOAS within the last decade. It is now extremely Woke and jihadi
    Interesting combination.
    If you think Wokeism and Islamism are contradictory you don't get out much
    There is a fascinating juxtaposition (convergence?) between Ayatollah Khomeni’s jurisprudence on transgender people and the contemporary pro-trans movement.
    That's absolutely right

    From what I have heard (from insiders) a surprising number of referrals to the Tavistock trans-gender clinic come from fundamentalist Muslims parents, who would rather have a trans child than a gay child. The latter is haram, the former is barely covered in the Koran. So, trans is better

    And Iran is "weirdly" tolerant of trans people but executes gays

    "Iran is the only Islamic country where the sex reassignment surgery (SRS) is recognized"

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9745420/
    There is nothing about transgender people (mukannathun/مُخَنَّثون) in the Glorious Quran. They are mentioned in the hadith sharif (al-Bukhari) in which the Prophet Muhammed (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) orders them into exile
    Can I just take this moment to thank you for being the most outrageous, obnoxious, amusing and interesting contributor to PB?

    You’re the only poster who manages to surprise me with every post.

    Your opinions, anecdotes and references are utterly unpredictable.

    Well done, sir, for keeping this site fresh!
    Broadly true perhaps, though I can think of one source of even more unpredictable anecdotes...
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,548

    I am going to go with the death of J Dilla, January 2006 as the bookend, although no doubt to accusations of pseudery.

    There is a J Dilla beat which affects most pop music that followed him.

    For most people good new music ends around age 33.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,009
    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,110
    Ghedebrav said:

    RIP Tina Turner.

    A true inspiration for me - really. Her complete renaissance in the 80s after decades of abuse and manipulation is a hell of a testament to a women whose character matched her voice in strength and vivacity.

    A sex symbol in her 40s, 50s and beyond too - a confident and self-possessed woman, who took control of her life and didn’t look back. Great music too.

    She features quite a bit in Adam Curtis's "It Felt Like A Kiss". I hadn't especially known of her story before her late 70s/80s (as I now know) 'revival' before then.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,553
    pm215 said:

    kle4 said:

    Since electoral reform has been known to come up here from time to time, bunch of nerds, including when it is and isn't ok to make changes without referenda, I'm surprised I've not seen a suggestion of doing what Greece does, with reforms taking place only several elections down the road, which is quite novel.

    Interesting. The other place I've seen "rules changes are on a delay" is the Hugo Awards (which had to change its nomination rules after a group of people decided to exploit a weakness to slate-voting in the old rules...)
    Authoritarians should try to be smarter and do the same thing - at the moment they seem to be getting lazy with the 'We've changed the constitution, which means my two available terms reset!" trick, which is just getting old. So instead bring in a change eliminating term limits, but to come into effect several elections hence, which proves it will only be for your benefit if you maintain your 'popularity' and continue to 'win' elections, rather than a transparent immediate ploy.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,172
    edited May 2023

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    However John's harmonica playing is unique and cool...
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,553
    Ok, sometimes twitter comes through

  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,009
    GIN1138 said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    However John's harmonica playing is unique and cool...
    But check out “Hey Baby” by Bruce Chanel as the superior inspiration.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,553
    edited May 2023
    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    And only the good stuff sticks around (unless it is epically bad). The 'this time it is true' brigade are fooling themselves. No one's thought that one before?
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,922
    There is a vast amount of good music. It is the cultural significance of pop music that is in decline. A brilliant album is now just something to listen to, it doesn't define your life in the way that music used to in the 90's and 00's. I've listened to two amazing albums this evening on spotify from the last few years but ultimately there is an endless supply of more stuff to listen to tomorrow.

    The one development that I dislike is the way that spotify tries to get you to listen to tracks rather than albums.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,172

    GIN1138 said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    However John's harmonica playing is unique and cool...
    But check out “Hey Baby” by Bruce Chanel as the superior inspiration.
    Good point. "Rock n Roll" classic there!
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,634
    edited May 2023

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    1997/98 I'd say.
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,110

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65696801

    Our drugs policy is a disaster.

    What would be your undisastrous policy?
    Looks to me like our current approach is the worst of all worlds.

    We either need international agreement to go full on war on drugs, or go all in on regulated supply and treatment rooms etc.
    When you say 'drugs', to what do you refer?
    See the BBC link that your post was replying to, for an example.
    And I raise you this:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-52648026

    or this:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-47341941

    or this:
    https://www.vanguardngr.com/2021/10/at-least-17-dead-in-russia-after-drinking-adulterated-alcohol/

    etc, etc.

    But that actually does not answer my question. Are you saying that cannabis, heroin, MDMA, ketamine, etc should all be easily available?
    They are easily available, we just pretend they're not.
    I know where to go to get some Nurofen or a bottle of whisky. I don't know where to go to score some heroin. So 'easily available' very much depends on context.

    (I do know someone who regularly smokes cannabis. But he's a paranoid git, and so probably wouldn't tell me about his dealer even if I asked. ;)

    Your circles evidently are rather different to mine.
    Oh come on; there'll be a PB expert who will have bought from all your local dealers, and can rank them on various metrics.
    Yes, but I haven't seen @SeanT around recently. I think he may have gone abroad for the winter.
    Someone ought to do a travelogue 'Britain's Best Dealers' or somesuch. A journey through the country's underworld (although I guess it might be able to do it in a very middle-class way).
    In the before times, I did a favour for one of the biggest weed dealers in the UK. Managed to get his son's Bush 'TV and Modem' connected up to his ISP.

    Without going into too many details, it was a very good deal from my point of view.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,098

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    There was nothing special about the 1950s. Musical movements come and go. Some of them inspire me, others don't. That mid-50s to mid-60s era is crap in my book. Ragtime, jazz, ye olde blues were all better. The psychedelia that came later was great. Punk and funk were highlights. Things went pretty awful in the 80s and bounced back a bit in the 90s. I don't see a golden era in all that, just the tide coming in and out depending on whether it tickles my fancy or not. And your Elvises and early Beatleses tickle no fancies in Farooq Towers.
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,548
    Leave you with this: two icons being glorious together, now passed.

    https://youtu.be/Of1HV4b0ccg
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,009
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    There was nothing special about the 1950s. Musical movements come and go. Some of them inspire me, others don't. That mid-50s to mid-60s era is crap in my book. Ragtime, jazz, ye olde blues were all better. The psychedelia that came later was great. Punk and funk were highlights. Things went pretty awful in the 80s and bounced back a bit in the 90s. I don't see a golden era in all that, just the tide coming in and out depending on whether it tickles my fancy or not. And your Elvises and early Beatleses tickle no fancies in Farooq Towers.
    Whatever your personal feelings (since all art is to some extent subjective), you are ignoring the revolutionary cultural impact of Elvis, Beatles, Dylan, Punk etc.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,098
    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    And only the good stuff sticks around (unless it is epically bad). The 'this time it is true' brigade are fooling themselves. No one's thought that one before?
    This is just it. By god the amount of rubbish I listened to when I was a teenager. And yet I look back fondly on he era. I know the pull on the heart the sounds of youth. We all feel it. But if you're going to open your mouth and talk about it you have to realise it's deeply personal. It's the eye of the beholder. It's always the eye of the beholder.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,098
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    And only the good stuff sticks around (unless it is epically bad). The 'this time it is true' brigade are fooling themselves. No one's thought that one before?
    This is just it. By god the amount of rubbish I listened to when I was a teenager. And yet I look back fondly on he era. I know the pull on the heart the sounds of youth. We all feel it. But if you're going to open your mouth and talk about it you have to realise it's deeply personal. It's the eye of the beholder. It's always the eye of the beholder.
    Well, maybe the ear.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,909
    kle4 said:

    Ok, sometimes twitter comes through

    I was about to post what a rubbish post it is to say the earth has never produced a single drop of alcohol, but the 'Jesus converted water into wine' is such a better put down.
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,384
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    My older daughter turns 17 today. A complex age for any human. And I immediately thought of the Janis Ian song, and found this exquisite live rendition on The Old Grey Whistle Test

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMUz2TNMvL0

    Just absolutely spine-tingling. Can you imagine being in that audience and hearing this LIVE for the first time. A cold clear copper bottomed masterpiece of a song. The voice, the guitar work, the immortal tune, the poignant lyrics, everything. Ah, fuck. What 'appened to music?

    Great song. Do we always have to include that hangdog 'better in my day' bit at the end though? We're the same age (ish) but my son is double 17. That's 34 (for the non accountants). It's interestingly poised now, our relationship. 62 plays 34. He has a clear edge in almost everything.
    Yes, unfortunately, we do have to include the "better in my day" bit because it is interesting. Because, for the first time in many decades, this tired old meme is provably true and says something important about politics

    Thus elevating the comment from "Oooh I have a family moment and here's a nice song" to something a shade more interesting that might make a Gazette piece so I'm trying it out from different angles
    Hmm, ok. I don't agree with you though. I don't think this 'better in my day' (about music) is any different to the standard one about anything else.

    And there's nothing wrong with just sharing the family moment!
    Where is the equivalent - post, say, 2010 - of a pop song as exquisite, delicate and moving as "At 17"? It does not exist

    Amy Winehouse is much missed. She was the very last of the Golden Age. The Tintoretto of the Pop Music Renaissance
    I've dropped off tracking new releases (being 62) and in any case there's so much product these days on so many platforms you can't get your arms around it as you once could. It used to be that if you were into music and there was a great song released you'd be bound to hear it. The corollary was if you didn't hear something it can't have been that good. This is no longer the case. There's tons of high quality new music now that unless you devote yourself to seeking it out (which you won't at your age) you will not discover. But it's there.

    Eg what I've noticed is when I do random deep dives into recent music, or catch it on soundtracks for tv dramas, I come across plenty of absolutely terrific songs. Songs just as good as those on my familiar playlists. Songs whereby I know that if I listened to them a lot, and could associate them with my younger life, thus generating a sweet nostalgia hit, could take their place as 'classics' (for me). I don't have the time or inclination to do this now, so they don't, but they could. They are objectively good enough, is my point.

    So although I'd like to agree that the stuff I've curated and love from many moons ago constitutes a 'Golden Age' (because it's nice to believe that), I kind of know that it isn't. It's another heart v head thing, this. Heart says you're right that music used to be better. Head says it's nonsense.
    And yet I have a friend whose job is music reviewing and critiquing. He lives for this. And he LOVES discovering new talent

    And he says it simply isn’t there any more. He goes to two gigs a week. Indeed it’s his theory that Winehouse was the last of the greats (I borrowed it)

    He has various theories why

    There is also factual evidence that music has got more simplistic, crude and lyrically vulgar and coarse
    Read Ted Gioia’s substack if you want to find new music.
    He’s older than you and finds plenty of good stuff. Best music critic currently writing.
    OK, Boomer
    Man, I get that you’re jaded with modern pop music. If truth be told, so am I. There are no new fucking essential bands coming through. Last one was probably, what, Nirvana? A group that straddled the mainstream and received critical acclaim, globally.

    Yeah there’s plenty of pop behemoths, but they all leave me cold, your Beyoncés, Coldplays, fucking Sheeran (lovely guy, but Jesus fuck his music is shite).

    But times have changed. The internet has fragmented everything. Music’s fragmented. The charts are full of shite (but, to an extent, they always have been).

    But there’s always good music out there. I’ve been obsessed, obsessed with music since I was about 10. All times, all genres, from bluegrass and the swing bands, the blues, into the all conquering rock from the Beatles on. Zeppelin. Punk. Post-punk. Grunge. Indie. Britpop. Electronica. Hip hop. Turntablism. Fucking act after act, genre after genre.

    When someone asks me what music I like after 15 seconds their eyeballs are glassy and they’re slowly edging away, desperate to escape.

    And you know how much I know about music, really? Despite all the music I’ve listened to, the books I’ve read, the magazines I bought? The square root of fuck all.

    I get sad when I think about all the great music I’ll never listen to, like all the amazing books I’ll never read.

    Th’s endless good music, you’re just not looking hard enough. The media, the scenes themselves, are so fragmented now, the charts are meaningless, you’ve got to work a bit harder. The acts might not necessarily be new - Paul Weller’s latest is very good, as it the recent album by Steve Mason, former Beta Band frontman - but by God there’s a torrent of good music coming out. So much it overwhelms me.

    6music have just recruited a new DJ called Deb Grant, her new show starts soon but she sat in for someone last week on the 9 to midnight slot and she just fucking smashed it out of the park. Great tune after great tune, all eras, genres, and I’d heard maybe 1 in 20 of them, if that.

    You’re an intrepid explorer, explore music. Go backwards, go outwards, go up and down and round about. It’s there, just waiting to be discovered. Isn’t that exciting?
    I explore all the time, believe me. The sensation of discovering a great new sound is addictive, and it still occasionally happens

    But it is now NOT happening to an extent where I believe there has been a discernible decline, and this tendency is firming not slowing

    It doesn't really matter in the wider scheme. There was a marvellous period of continuous brilliance in the West, the Golden age of western pop music - 1960-2010. Great for us, we got lucky, but for our kids? Soz

    But this is not unexpected. It is just the same as the Italian Renaissance which shone for about 200-250 years or the Chinese peak in porcelain which lasted for a couple of generations or the great era of opera which lasted about a century or.... and so on, and so on. Art forms rise and fall. This is a known thing. It is happening to us. Other art forms will - we hope - rise and replace "popular music"

    That is my take. Others are available

    There was great listenable pop music as far back as the beginning of electrical recording in the 20s, which is recognisably in the same spectrum as the (acoustic) pop of nowadays. More people bought it in the 1960s, but that's a function of technology and economics, and not necessarily of how many people heard it - they went to dances with live bands, played it on their pianos, or listened on the wireless.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,098

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    There was nothing special about the 1950s. Musical movements come and go. Some of them inspire me, others don't. That mid-50s to mid-60s era is crap in my book. Ragtime, jazz, ye olde blues were all better. The psychedelia that came later was great. Punk and funk were highlights. Things went pretty awful in the 80s and bounced back a bit in the 90s. I don't see a golden era in all that, just the tide coming in and out depending on whether it tickles my fancy or not. And your Elvises and early Beatleses tickle no fancies in Farooq Towers.
    Whatever your personal feelings (since all art is to some extent subjective), you are ignoring the revolutionary cultural impact of Elvis, Beatles, Dylan, Punk etc.
    And Scott Joplin and George Gershwin and Joseph Lamb and
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,964
    Andy_JS said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    1997/98 I'd say.
    There was an enjoyable series on BBC4 recently with a 'best of TOTP' from each year of the 90s. The decline - sudden, then abrupt - in enjoyability over the course of the series was quite depressing.
    Now, I like indie, and 1990 for me was about peak indie; I was less enthused by Britpop (1995) than Baggy (1990), but the early 90s were generally pretty good. But then, as you say, after about 97, a crash.

    That said, 2002-2010 was actually also pretty good for indie. I'd place the end of the golden period about 2010.

    Though I stick to the view that the absolute pinnacle of pop's golden era was 1977-1984.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,553
    edited May 2023
    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    Ok, sometimes twitter comes through

    I was about to post what a rubbish post it is to say the earth has never produced a single drop of alcohol, but the 'Jesus converted water into wine' is such a better put down.
    Yes, but who could know that


    I looked up the story in curiosity, and apparently Jesus did it because his mum nagged him at a wedding as the guests were about to run dry. Not sure on the motivation, but still a good miracle and understandably a more popular message than 'alcohol is evil' from Mr Shuttlesworth.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,240
    They've got Desantis to co-host now lol.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,240
    Caitlyn Jenner and Rudy Giullini in the audience.
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    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Rishi lead in the Blue Wall
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,240
    And it's dead.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,098
    Pulpstar said:

    And it's dead.

    The Blue Wall? The presidential election? Music?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,688
    Farooq said:

    Pulpstar said:

    And it's dead.

    The Blue Wall? The presidential election? Music?
    Apparently Ron DeSantis hasn't had a hit since he did "Simply The Best" in 1988.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,553
    Farooq said:

    Pulpstar said:

    And it's dead.

    The Blue Wall? The presidential election? Music?
    BBC
    The line is completely quiet now as we assume the Twitter team is busily working to fix things on their end.

    We just heard Musk say things were back working again, but it's once again radio silence.


    Just before the launch of the Twitter Spaces room, Ron DeSantis published his campaign video on his account.

    "I’m Ron DeSantis, and I'm running for president to lead our great American comeback."

    These are the final words uttered by DeSantis in a short one-minute video posted minutes ago.

    In the video, he echoed much of the common conservative rhetoric that has elevated him to the national stage.

    He described a "disastrous" border, "crime infested" cities, and liberal "indoctrination" by the left as the prevailing perils against America, and has positioned himself as the cure.


    Just stellar guys, Trump will have a field day.

    Is DeSantis just banking on Trump being taken out legally or something (hoping someone else will defeat him has been the GOP strategy every time and never works), as I still don't see what he is offering that Trump would not also offer for someone in the GOP base.
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,411
    GIN1138 said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    However John's harmonica playing is unique and cool...
    It was also their debut single and reached Number One in the US. Trivia question: who was the next British band to achieve that exact same feat?
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,098
    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    Pulpstar said:

    And it's dead.

    The Blue Wall? The presidential election? Music?
    Apparently Ron DeSantis hasn't had a hit since he did "Simply The Best" in 1988.
    Too soon. Have a like from me.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,964
    dixiedean said:

    EPG said:

    Nirvana like Amy never got a number one. Paper Lace did and were on that basis a bigger pop act. Funny world.

    Bob Dylan hasn't either.
    But Joe Dolce has.
    Go figure.
    I suspect Bob Dylan has made more money from pop music over the course of his career than Joe Dolce.

    Even - especially - in the golden age of singles, #1s were often pretty eccentric choices. Even the real big sellers: Bohemian Rhapsody is a very, very strange song; Mull of Kintyre a rather odd bit of cod-folk with bagpipes.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,909
    kle4 said:

    ping said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65696801

    Our drugs policy is a disaster.

    What would be your undisastrous policy?
    Looks to me like our current approach is the worst of all worlds.

    We either need international agreement to go full on war on drugs, or go all in on regulated supply and treatment rooms etc.
    When you say 'drugs', to what do you refer?
    See the BBC link that your post was replying to, for an example.
    And I raise you this:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-52648026

    or this:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-47341941

    or this:
    https://www.vanguardngr.com/2021/10/at-least-17-dead-in-russia-after-drinking-adulterated-alcohol/

    etc, etc.

    But that actually does not answer my question. Are you saying that cannabis, heroin, MDMA, ketamine, etc should all be easily available?
    They are easily available, we just pretend they're not.
    I know where to go to get some Nurofen or a bottle of whisky. I don't know where to go to score some heroin. So 'easily available' very much depends on context.

    You could buy gear in any town in England in about 15 minutes just by asking the scraggiest people you can find on the street.
    The bus station in Uttoxeter was always *allegedly* the place when I was a teenager. But I don't know of the place around here - yet I know there are some, as there was a murder by a drug dealer five or so years ago.

    But I fear if I was to go up to the scraggiest person I can find on the street to ask them for some gear, they'll probably think I'm police...

    (On several occasions I've had people ask me if I'm police. Once in Slough when on a hike, with rucksack, once in Stepney Green where my crime was wearing a white shirt, and another outside March. I guess I just have the air. I'm unconvinced this is a good thing ...)
    The bar at SOAS was always a winner but now I rock up to lectures at Birkbeck after work in my suit I’d likely get some funny looks.
    The SOAS bar was not for buying eighths of hash. The amounts traded there were several orders of magnitude higher.
    Not any more. Mt ex wife went to SOAS within the last decade. It is now extremely Woke and jihadi
    Interesting combination.
    If you think Wokeism and Islamism are contradictory you don't get out much
    There is a fascinating juxtaposition (convergence?) between Ayatollah Khomeni’s jurisprudence on transgender people and the contemporary pro-trans movement.
    That's absolutely right

    From what I have heard (from insiders) a surprising number of referrals to the Tavistock trans-gender clinic come from fundamentalist Muslims parents, who would rather have a trans child than a gay child. The latter is haram, the former is barely covered in the Koran. So, trans is better

    And Iran is "weirdly" tolerant of trans people but executes gays

    "Iran is the only Islamic country where the sex reassignment surgery (SRS) is recognized"

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9745420/
    There is nothing about transgender people (mukannathun/مُخَنَّثون) in the Glorious Quran. They are mentioned in the hadith sharif (al-Bukhari) in which the Prophet Muhammed (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) orders them into exile
    Can I just take this moment to thank you for being the most outrageous, obnoxious, amusing and interesting contributor to PB?

    You’re the only poster who manages to surprise me with every post.

    Your opinions, anecdotes and references are utterly unpredictable.

    Well done, sir, for keeping this site fresh!
    Broadly true perhaps, though I can think of one source of even more unpredictable anecdotes...
    Doesn't he count as multiple sources?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,688

    GIN1138 said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    However John's harmonica playing is unique and cool...
    It was also their debut single and reached Number One in the US. Trivia question: who was the next British band to achieve that exact same feat?
    Spice girls? Steps?
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,161
    Ghedebrav said:

    Leave you with this: two icons being glorious together, now passed.

    https://youtu.be/Of1HV4b0ccg

    One thing about Tina Turner, like Bowie, is she was unquestionably a star. Surprised she didn't do a few more films after Mad Max. Hate to agree with Sarah Vine but Private Dancer is a very under-rated song. A couple of the early ones with Ike - A Fool In Love and I Think It's Gonna Work Out Fine are worth re-discovery and many thought River Deep Mountain High was the high point of Phil Spector's career.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMK6q6M6zP4
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,411
    Cookie said:

    dixiedean said:

    EPG said:

    Nirvana like Amy never got a number one. Paper Lace did and were on that basis a bigger pop act. Funny world.

    Bob Dylan hasn't either.
    But Joe Dolce has.
    Go figure.
    I suspect Bob Dylan has made more money from pop music over the course of his career than Joe Dolce.

    Even - especially - in the golden age of singles, #1s were often pretty eccentric choices. Even the real big sellers: Bohemian Rhapsody is a very, very strange song; Mull of Kintyre a rather odd bit of cod-folk with bagpipes.
    And let's not forget the last Number One of the 1960s and first Number One of the 1970s. Step forward Rolf Harris with Two Little Boys.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,553
    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    ping said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    ping said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    ping said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65696801

    Our drugs policy is a disaster.

    What would be your undisastrous policy?
    Looks to me like our current approach is the worst of all worlds.

    We either need international agreement to go full on war on drugs, or go all in on regulated supply and treatment rooms etc.
    When you say 'drugs', to what do you refer?
    See the BBC link that your post was replying to, for an example.
    And I raise you this:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-52648026

    or this:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-47341941

    or this:
    https://www.vanguardngr.com/2021/10/at-least-17-dead-in-russia-after-drinking-adulterated-alcohol/

    etc, etc.

    But that actually does not answer my question. Are you saying that cannabis, heroin, MDMA, ketamine, etc should all be easily available?
    They are easily available, we just pretend they're not.
    I know where to go to get some Nurofen or a bottle of whisky. I don't know where to go to score some heroin. So 'easily available' very much depends on context.

    You could buy gear in any town in England in about 15 minutes just by asking the scraggiest people you can find on the street.
    The bus station in Uttoxeter was always *allegedly* the place when I was a teenager. But I don't know of the place around here - yet I know there are some, as there was a murder by a drug dealer five or so years ago.

    But I fear if I was to go up to the scraggiest person I can find on the street to ask them for some gear, they'll probably think I'm police...

    (On several occasions I've had people ask me if I'm police. Once in Slough when on a hike, with rucksack, once in Stepney Green where my crime was wearing a white shirt, and another outside March. I guess I just have the air. I'm unconvinced this is a good thing ...)
    The bar at SOAS was always a winner but now I rock up to lectures at Birkbeck after work in my suit I’d likely get some funny looks.
    The SOAS bar was not for buying eighths of hash. The amounts traded there were several orders of magnitude higher.
    Not any more. Mt ex wife went to SOAS within the last decade. It is now extremely Woke and jihadi
    Interesting combination.
    If you think Wokeism and Islamism are contradictory you don't get out much
    There is a fascinating juxtaposition (convergence?) between Ayatollah Khomeni’s jurisprudence on transgender people and the contemporary pro-trans movement.
    That's absolutely right

    From what I have heard (from insiders) a surprising number of referrals to the Tavistock trans-gender clinic come from fundamentalist Muslims parents, who would rather have a trans child than a gay child. The latter is haram, the former is barely covered in the Koran. So, trans is better

    And Iran is "weirdly" tolerant of trans people but executes gays

    "Iran is the only Islamic country where the sex reassignment surgery (SRS) is recognized"

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9745420/
    There is nothing about transgender people (mukannathun/مُخَنَّثون) in the Glorious Quran. They are mentioned in the hadith sharif (al-Bukhari) in which the Prophet Muhammed (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) orders them into exile
    Can I just take this moment to thank you for being the most outrageous, obnoxious, amusing and interesting contributor to PB?

    You’re the only poster who manages to surprise me with every post.

    Your opinions, anecdotes and references are utterly unpredictable.

    Well done, sir, for keeping this site fresh!
    Broadly true perhaps, though I can think of one source of even more unpredictable anecdotes...
    Doesn't he count as multiple sources?
    Not the one(s) I was thinking of
  • Options
    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,453
    Ghedebrav said:

    I am going to go with the death of J Dilla, January 2006 as the bookend, although no doubt to accusations of pseudery.

    There is a J Dilla beat which affects most pop music that followed him.

    For most people good new music ends around 33.

    So Rachmaninov's Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini is ok (1932) but Barber's Adagio for Strings (1934) is not?
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,158
    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pulpstar said:

    And it's dead.

    The Blue Wall? The presidential election? Music?
    BBC
    The line is completely quiet now as we assume the Twitter team is busily working to fix things on their end.

    We just heard Musk say things were back working again, but it's once again radio silence.


    Just before the launch of the Twitter Spaces room, Ron DeSantis published his campaign video on his account.

    "I’m Ron DeSantis, and I'm running for president to lead our great American comeback."

    These are the final words uttered by DeSantis in a short one-minute video posted minutes ago.

    In the video, he echoed much of the common conservative rhetoric that has elevated him to the national stage.

    He described a "disastrous" border, "crime infested" cities, and liberal "indoctrination" by the left as the prevailing perils against America, and has positioned himself as the cure.


    Just stellar guys, Trump will have a field day.

    Is DeSantis just banking on Trump being taken out legally or something (hoping someone else will defeat him has been the GOP strategy every time and never works), as I still don't see what he is offering that Trump would not also offer for someone in the GOP base.
    That's the whole freaking point, dude - DeSantis is Trump without the Trump.

    > Trump Light?
    > Thinking patriot's/wingnut's Trump?
    > Trump for the Trump-fatigued?
    > All of the above!
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,411
    viewcode said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    However John's harmonica playing is unique and cool...
    It was also their debut single and reached Number One in the US. Trivia question: who was the next British band to achieve that exact same feat?
    Spice girls? Steps?
    Actually far worse (if that's possible).
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,559
    edited May 2023
    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pulpstar said:

    And it's dead.

    The Blue Wall? The presidential election? Music?
    ...

    Is DeSantis just banking on Trump being taken out legally or something (hoping someone else will defeat him has been the GOP strategy every time and never works), as I still don't see what he is offering that Trump would not also offer for someone in the GOP base.
    There are two strategies for Republican hopefuls. We might call these strategies the "Prince Harry" and the "Cicada".

    In the Cicada strategy our Republican hopeful goes to ground, to emerge some years into the future when Trump has passed from the scene.

    The Prince Harry strategy is to line oneself up as the spare so that, if anything untoward were to happen to Trump which took him out of the running, they would be the obvious next in line. RDS has chosen to play Prince Harry.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,172

    GIN1138 said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    However John's harmonica playing is unique and cool...
    It was also their debut single and reached Number One in the US. Trivia question: who was the next British band to achieve that exact same feat?
    Hmmmm..

    I'll have a guess at The Rolling Stones (but if it's a trick question it might be someone like The Searchers) but I'll stick with The Stones...
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,186
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    My older daughter turns 17 today. A complex age for any human. And I immediately thought of the Janis Ian song, and found this exquisite live rendition on The Old Grey Whistle Test

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMUz2TNMvL0

    Just absolutely spine-tingling. Can you imagine being in that audience and hearing this LIVE for the first time. A cold clear copper bottomed masterpiece of a song. The voice, the guitar work, the immortal tune, the poignant lyrics, everything. Ah, fuck. What 'appened to music?

    Great song. Do we always have to include that hangdog 'better in my day' bit at the end though? We're the same age (ish) but my son is double 17. That's 34 (for the non accountants). It's interestingly poised now, our relationship. 62 plays 34. He has a clear edge in almost everything.
    Yes, unfortunately, we do have to include the "better in my day" bit because it is interesting. Because, for the first time in many decades, this tired old meme is provably true and says something important about politics

    Thus elevating the comment from "Oooh I have a family moment and here's a nice song" to something a shade more interesting that might make a Gazette piece so I'm trying it out from different angles
    Hmm, ok. I don't agree with you though. I don't think this 'better in my day' (about music) is any different to the standard one about anything else.

    And there's nothing wrong with just sharing the family moment!
    Where is the equivalent - post, say, 2010 - of a pop song as exquisite, delicate and moving as "At 17"? It does not exist
    One person from the post-2010 era who probably does qualify as having a genuine cultural significance is Lana Del Rey:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE6wxDqdOV0
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,384
    Pop music in the 1900s (decade) WAS a bit rubbish, lots of ethnic prejudice and stereotyping, and lots of nonsense. And prior to the mid-20s, all recorded songs had to be shouted and blasted into the recorder, so Louis Armstrong and Bing Crosby were in part lucky to flourish when the technology was there to capture their artistry. (Crosby gave back in spades to music tech when he invested the seed capital for commercial tape recording.)
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,186
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    However John's harmonica playing is unique and cool...
    It was also their debut single and reached Number One in the US. Trivia question: who was the next British band to achieve that exact same feat?
    Hmmmm..

    I'll have a guess at The Rolling Stones (but if it's a trick question it might be someone like The Searchers) but I'll stick with The Stones...
    It's the Spice Girls, isn't it?
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,172
    edited May 2023

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    However John's harmonica playing is unique and cool...
    It was also their debut single and reached Number One in the US. Trivia question: who was the next British band to achieve that exact same feat?
    Hmmmm..

    I'll have a guess at The Rolling Stones (but if it's a trick question it might be someone like The Searchers) but I'll stick with The Stones...
    It's the Spice Girls, isn't it?
    Ah, yes, on their debut release. I missed that part. Yes it will probably be the Spice Girls :(
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,553

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pulpstar said:

    And it's dead.

    The Blue Wall? The presidential election? Music?
    BBC
    The line is completely quiet now as we assume the Twitter team is busily working to fix things on their end.

    We just heard Musk say things were back working again, but it's once again radio silence.


    Just before the launch of the Twitter Spaces room, Ron DeSantis published his campaign video on his account.

    "I’m Ron DeSantis, and I'm running for president to lead our great American comeback."

    These are the final words uttered by DeSantis in a short one-minute video posted minutes ago.

    In the video, he echoed much of the common conservative rhetoric that has elevated him to the national stage.

    He described a "disastrous" border, "crime infested" cities, and liberal "indoctrination" by the left as the prevailing perils against America, and has positioned himself as the cure.


    Just stellar guys, Trump will have a field day.

    Is DeSantis just banking on Trump being taken out legally or something (hoping someone else will defeat him has been the GOP strategy every time and never works), as I still don't see what he is offering that Trump would not also offer for someone in the GOP base.
    That's the whole freaking point, dude - DeSantis is Trump without the Trump.

    > Trump Light?
    > Thinking patriot's/wingnut's Trump?
    > Trump for the Trump-fatigued?
    > All of the above!
    Is that a big market, if Trump is still a viable option though? I'd get the idea of "I like Trump, but he's not going to win like Big Ronny will", but it seems like people have soured on the idea that DeSantis is more likely to win now.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,411
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    However John's harmonica playing is unique and cool...
    It was also their debut single and reached Number One in the US. Trivia question: who was the next British band to achieve that exact same feat?
    Hmmmm..

    I'll have a guess at The Rolling Stones (but if it's a trick question it might be someone like The Searchers) but I'll stick with The Stones...
    It's the Spice Girls, isn't it?
    Ah, yes, on their debut release. I missed that part. Yes it will probably be the Spice Girls :(
    I'm off to bed so don't want to give anyone sleepless nights puzzling over it. It was, apparently, Right Said Fred and 'I'm Too Sexy'.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,172

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    However John's harmonica playing is unique and cool...
    It was also their debut single and reached Number One in the US. Trivia question: who was the next British band to achieve that exact same feat?
    Hmmmm..

    I'll have a guess at The Rolling Stones (but if it's a trick question it might be someone like The Searchers) but I'll stick with The Stones...
    It's the Spice Girls, isn't it?
    Ah, yes, on their debut release. I missed that part. Yes it will probably be the Spice Girls :(
    I'm off to bed so don't want to give anyone sleepless nights puzzling over it. It was, apparently, Right Said Fred and 'I'm Too Sexy'.
    The anti-vaxxers got to Number 1 in USA with their debut single??? 😭
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,384

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    However John's harmonica playing is unique and cool...
    It was also their debut single and reached Number One in the US. Trivia question: who was the next British band to achieve that exact same feat?
    Hmmmm..

    I'll have a guess at The Rolling Stones (but if it's a trick question it might be someone like The Searchers) but I'll stick with The Stones...
    It's the Spice Girls, isn't it?
    Ah, yes, on their debut release. I missed that part. Yes it will probably be the Spice Girls :(
    I'm off to bed so don't want to give anyone sleepless nights puzzling over it. It was, apparently, Right Said Fred and 'I'm Too Sexy'.
    I thought it would have been Freddie and the Dreamers, but apparently they released a minor single prior to their US Number One.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,098

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    However John's harmonica playing is unique and cool...
    It was also their debut single and reached Number One in the US. Trivia question: who was the next British band to achieve that exact same feat?
    Hmmmm..

    I'll have a guess at The Rolling Stones (but if it's a trick question it might be someone like The Searchers) but I'll stick with The Stones...
    It's the Spice Girls, isn't it?
    Ah, yes, on their debut release. I missed that part. Yes it will probably be the Spice Girls :(
    I'm off to bed so don't want to give anyone sleepless nights puzzling over it. It was, apparently, Right Said Fred and 'I'm Too Sexy'.
    This being part of that "golden age" people talking about :smirk:
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,688

    viewcode said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    However John's harmonica playing is unique and cool...
    It was also their debut single and reached Number One in the US. Trivia question: who was the next British band to achieve that exact same feat?
    Spice girls? Steps?
    Actually far worse (if that's possible).
    I know it's not S Club 7. Hmmm. Terrible British bands whose debut was US#1. Gary Glitter? Buggles? Liberty X (although I do like the latter two). Kinks, the Who, not terrible. Numan didn't #1 with his debut. Wham, Pet Shop Boys, Depeche Mode not terrible. Sade, Tanita Tikaram, the Eurythmics, not terrible. Five Star? Take That? Hopefully not McFly/Busted. Not Blur, Oasis, Pulp.

    Ok, give up. Who?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,688
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    However John's harmonica playing is unique and cool...
    It was also their debut single and reached Number One in the US. Trivia question: who was the next British band to achieve that exact same feat?
    Spice girls? Steps?
    Actually far worse (if that's possible).
    I know it's not S Club 7. Hmmm. Terrible British bands whose debut was US#1. Gary Glitter? Buggles? Liberty X (although I do like the latter two). Kinks, the Who, not terrible. Numan didn't #1 with his debut. Wham, Pet Shop Boys, Depeche Mode not terrible. Sade, Tanita Tikaram, the Eurythmics, not terrible. Five Star? Take That? Hopefully not McFly/Busted. Not Blur, Oasis, Pulp.

    Ok, give up. Who?
    Right Said Fred? Oh, for Gawds sake. "I'm too antivaxx for my shirt, so seropositive it hurts?" There is no justice... ☹️
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,158
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pulpstar said:

    And it's dead.

    The Blue Wall? The presidential election? Music?
    BBC
    The line is completely quiet now as we assume the Twitter team is busily working to fix things on their end.

    We just heard Musk say things were back working again, but it's once again radio silence.


    Just before the launch of the Twitter Spaces room, Ron DeSantis published his campaign video on his account.

    "I’m Ron DeSantis, and I'm running for president to lead our great American comeback."

    These are the final words uttered by DeSantis in a short one-minute video posted minutes ago.

    In the video, he echoed much of the common conservative rhetoric that has elevated him to the national stage.

    He described a "disastrous" border, "crime infested" cities, and liberal "indoctrination" by the left as the prevailing perils against America, and has positioned himself as the cure.


    Just stellar guys, Trump will have a field day.

    Is DeSantis just banking on Trump being taken out legally or something (hoping someone else will defeat him has been the GOP strategy every time and never works), as I still don't see what he is offering that Trump would not also offer for someone in the GOP base.
    That's the whole freaking point, dude - DeSantis is Trump without the Trump.

    > Trump Light?
    > Thinking patriot's/wingnut's Trump?
    > Trump for the Trump-fatigued?
    > All of the above!
    Is that a big market, if Trump is still a viable option though? I'd get the idea of "I like Trump, but he's not going to win like Big Ronny will", but it seems like people have soured on the idea that DeSantis is more likely to win now.
    Yes indeedy it's a big market. BTW my 3rd bullet point should have read "Trump for the Trump-fatigued Trumpite"

    Plenty of conservative Republicans and leaners, from center-right to flaming-fascist, support Trump's politics, program and ideology (such as they be) to considerable degree BUT nevertheless have serious doubts about Trump's ability to deliver.

    Being able to deliver on what Trump promises, is THE basic argument for DeSantis over Trump in 2024.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,186

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    However John's harmonica playing is unique and cool...
    It was also their debut single and reached Number One in the US. Trivia question: who was the next British band to achieve that exact same feat?
    Hmmmm..

    I'll have a guess at The Rolling Stones (but if it's a trick question it might be someone like The Searchers) but I'll stick with The Stones...
    It's the Spice Girls, isn't it?
    Ah, yes, on their debut release. I missed that part. Yes it will probably be the Spice Girls :(
    I'm off to bed so don't want to give anyone sleepless nights puzzling over it. It was, apparently, Right Said Fred and 'I'm Too Sexy'.
    I found the relevant Wikipedia page and it looks like there might be an even more bizarre answer. The New Vaudeville Band had a number one in 1966 with Winchester Cathedral. I'd never heard of it before and I can't see how it was ever a big hit:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GcPYzYYM9M

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Billboard_Hot_100_number-ones_by_British_artists
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,384
    Wiki says Peter and Gordon's debut single was "A World Without Love" (Lennon-McCartney), which was a Number One on Billboard a few months after "Can't Buy Me Love".
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,553
    edited May 2023
    So cringey - please tell us more about Twitter, the boss is watching.

    The first question to DeSantis after his scripted opening pitch comes from the host, David Sacks.

    He asks DeSantis why he chose to make his announcement over Twitter Spaces instead of a more conventional route, like cable news or a rally.


    This is pretty funny though.

    "Twitter was expensive but free speech is priceless," [Musk] says, about his purchase of the tech platform after DeSantis compliments him on buying it.

    That must be why he tried to pull out of the deal entirely, either because he didn't want to buy it, or as a tactic to bargain down the price, which didn't work. Genius.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-65676382
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,634
    edited May 2023
    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    1997/98 I'd say.
    There was an enjoyable series on BBC4 recently with a 'best of TOTP' from each year of the 90s. The decline - sudden, then abrupt - in enjoyability over the course of the series was quite depressing.
    Now, I like indie, and 1990 for me was about peak indie; I was less enthused by Britpop (1995) than Baggy (1990), but the early 90s were generally pretty good. But then, as you say, after about 97, a crash.

    That said, 2002-2010 was actually also pretty good for indie. I'd place the end of the golden period about 2010.

    Though I stick to the view that the absolute pinnacle of pop's golden era was 1977-1984.
    I've paid almost no attention to pop music since about 1998, so when someone says there was good music around in 2010 I won't know what they're talking about. Very stupid of me, because you obviously can't make assumptions about music from a particular period without actually listening to it.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,158
    kle4 said:

    So cringey - please tell us more about Twitter, the boss is watching.

    The first question to DeSantis after his scripted opening pitch comes from the host, David Sacks.

    He asks DeSantis why he chose to make his announcement over Twitter Spaces instead of a more conventional route, like cable news or a rally.


    This is pretty funny though.

    "Twitter was expensive but free speech is priceless," [Musk] says, about his purchase of the tech platform after DeSantis compliments him on buying it.

    That must be why he tried to pull out of the deal entirely, either because he didn't want to buy it, or as a tactic to bargain down the price, which didn't work. Genius.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-65676382

    IMHO you are being entirely toooooo LOGICAL in evaluating the RDS POTUS Launch & Twit-Fest.

    Put yourself in the mindset of a conservative GOPer who likes Trump but harbors doubts and/or wants to move on.

    Then go soak yer head!
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,384
    You could say that The Beatles were "a band" and Peter and Gordon were "a group", but at the time, I think The Beatles were seen as "a group" - or more famously as a popular beat combo - whereas "a band" was something like the Count Basie Orchestra.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,964
    Farooq said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Farooq said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    Love love me do
    You know I love you
    I'll always be true
    So pleee e ee eeeeeeeeeese
    Love me do.


    There was no golden age. All sorts of criminally dumb songs are criminally popular in every age. Like the above effort. Only deranged people think that's any good.

    The only reason people think there was a golden age is because they got old and cynical. I cleverly avoided this trap by starting my cynicism at a very young age.

    Whoa-oh, love me do
    Of course there was a golden age, you berk.
    Love Me Do is probably the crappest Beatles song though.
    However John's harmonica playing is unique and cool...
    It was also their debut single and reached Number One in the US. Trivia question: who was the next British band to achieve that exact same feat?
    Hmmmm..

    I'll have a guess at The Rolling Stones (but if it's a trick question it might be someone like The Searchers) but I'll stick with The Stones...
    It's the Spice Girls, isn't it?
    Ah, yes, on their debut release. I missed that part. Yes it will probably be the Spice Girls :(
    I'm off to bed so don't want to give anyone sleepless nights puzzling over it. It was, apparently, Right Said Fred and 'I'm Too Sexy'.
    This being part of that "golden age" people talking about :smirk:
    To be honest, I have happy memories of that song. Stockport County had just been promoted from the old fourth division and in the first game of the season, under joyful Autumn sunshine, after the third goal against Swansea went in, the cry went up: "we're too sexy for the third".
    And later that month it was played on the juke box in the rugby club by someone's little sister 14 times in a row.
    For what it was, it was a decent pop song.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,009
    Surely the Beatles were a “beat combo”, as in “a popular beat combo, m’lud.”
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,172
    EPG said:

    Wiki says Peter and Gordon's debut single was "A World Without Love" (Lennon-McCartney), which was a Number One on Billboard a few months after "Can't Buy Me Love".

    We'll claim that one, we'll claim that one. Much better than the nut job, conspiracy theory, anti-vaxx loons RSF.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,098
    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    1997/98 I'd say.
    There was an enjoyable series on BBC4 recently with a 'best of TOTP' from each year of the 90s. The decline - sudden, then abrupt - in enjoyability over the course of the series was quite depressing.
    Now, I like indie, and 1990 for me was about peak indie; I was less enthused by Britpop (1995) than Baggy (1990), but the early 90s were generally pretty good. But then, as you say, after about 97, a crash.

    That said, 2002-2010 was actually also pretty good for indie. I'd place the end of the golden period about 2010.

    Though I stick to the view that the absolute pinnacle of pop's golden era was 1977-1984.
    "Dance with Me", Reginald Bosanquet (1980)
    "The Birdie Song", The Tweets (1981)
    "Ebony and Ivory", Paul McCartney featuring Stevie Wonder (1982)
    "True", Spandau Ballet (1983)
    "Agadoo", Black Lace (1984)
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,553
    edited May 2023

    kle4 said:

    So cringey - please tell us more about Twitter, the boss is watching.

    The first question to DeSantis after his scripted opening pitch comes from the host, David Sacks.

    He asks DeSantis why he chose to make his announcement over Twitter Spaces instead of a more conventional route, like cable news or a rally.


    This is pretty funny though.

    "Twitter was expensive but free speech is priceless," [Musk] says, about his purchase of the tech platform after DeSantis compliments him on buying it.

    That must be why he tried to pull out of the deal entirely, either because he didn't want to buy it, or as a tactic to bargain down the price, which didn't work. Genius.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-65676382

    IMHO you are being entirely toooooo LOGICAL in evaluating the RDS POTUS Launch & Twit-Fest.

    Put yourself in the mindset of a conservative GOPer who likes Trump but harbors doubts and/or wants to move on.

    Then go soak yer head!
    I'm sure the audience love it, but I think Musk thinks entirely enough of himself without people sucking his dick about the purchase of a platform he no longer wanted, or wanted but was not as smart as he thought he was and couldn't get a lower price out of it.

    I'm not expecting DeSantis of all people to point out the 'its priceless' line was laughable, but we can!

    Musk does remind of Trump somewhat in that I think he genuinely believes whatever he is saying at any given moment, even the stuff which is contradicting other things he has said, and he believes anything he reads. Really he should be the one running, but sadly that's not a possibility even if he were inclined (and a super billionaire wouldn't be).
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,634
    Thanks to whoever posted thet Janis Ian video earlier today. Never heard that song before but it's fantastic.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,158
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    So cringey - please tell us more about Twitter, the boss is watching.

    The first question to DeSantis after his scripted opening pitch comes from the host, David Sacks.

    He asks DeSantis why he chose to make his announcement over Twitter Spaces instead of a more conventional route, like cable news or a rally.


    This is pretty funny though.

    "Twitter was expensive but free speech is priceless," [Musk] says, about his purchase of the tech platform after DeSantis compliments him on buying it.

    That must be why he tried to pull out of the deal entirely, either because he didn't want to buy it, or as a tactic to bargain down the price, which didn't work. Genius.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-65676382

    IMHO you are being entirely toooooo LOGICAL in evaluating the RDS POTUS Launch & Twit-Fest.

    Put yourself in the mindset of a conservative GOPer who likes Trump but harbors doubts and/or wants to move on.

    Then go soak yer head!
    I'm sure the audience love it, but I think Musk thinks entirely enough of himself without people sucking his dick about the purchase of a platform he no longer wanted, or wanted but was not as smart as he thought he was and couldn't get a lower price out of it.

    I'm not expecting DeSantis of all people to point out the 'its priceless' line was laughable, but we can!

    Musk does remind of Trump somewhat in that I think he genuinely believes whatever he is saying at any given moment, even the stuff which is contradicting other things he has said, and he believes anything he reads. Really he should be the one running, but sadly that's not a possibility even if he were inclined (and a super billionaire wouldn't be).
    Point re: Musk & Twitter for DeSantis, Trump and fellow rightwingers, is that Musk turned Twitter from part of the left-wing media conspiracy (in their view) into a force for right (in more ways than one).
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,384
    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    1997/98 I'd say.
    There was an enjoyable series on BBC4 recently with a 'best of TOTP' from each year of the 90s. The decline - sudden, then abrupt - in enjoyability over the course of the series was quite depressing.
    Now, I like indie, and 1990 for me was about peak indie; I was less enthused by Britpop (1995) than Baggy (1990), but the early 90s were generally pretty good. But then, as you say, after about 97, a crash.

    That said, 2002-2010 was actually also pretty good for indie. I'd place the end of the golden period about 2010.

    Though I stick to the view that the absolute pinnacle of pop's golden era was 1977-1984.
    "Dance with Me", Reginald Bosanquet (1980)
    "The Birdie Song", The Tweets (1981)
    "Ebony and Ivory", Paul McCartney featuring Stevie Wonder (1982)
    "True", Spandau Ballet (1983)
    "Agadoo", Black Lace (1984)
    It turns out that when the birth rate peaks, as in 46 or 66, there's a big market in saying that music for teenagers was at its peak quality around 13-19 years later.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 12,098
    edited May 2023
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    So cringey - please tell us more about Twitter, the boss is watching.

    The first question to DeSantis after his scripted opening pitch comes from the host, David Sacks.

    He asks DeSantis why he chose to make his announcement over Twitter Spaces instead of a more conventional route, like cable news or a rally.


    This is pretty funny though.

    "Twitter was expensive but free speech is priceless," [Musk] says, about his purchase of the tech platform after DeSantis compliments him on buying it.

    That must be why he tried to pull out of the deal entirely, either because he didn't want to buy it, or as a tactic to bargain down the price, which didn't work. Genius.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-65676382

    IMHO you are being entirely toooooo LOGICAL in evaluating the RDS POTUS Launch & Twit-Fest.

    Put yourself in the mindset of a conservative GOPer who likes Trump but harbors doubts and/or wants to move on.

    Then go soak yer head!
    I'm sure the audience love it, but I think Musk thinks entirely enough of himself without people sucking his dick about the purchase of a platform he no longer wanted, or wanted but was not as smart as he thought he was and couldn't get a lower price out of it.

    I'm not expecting DeSantis of all people to point out the 'its priceless' line was laughable, but we can!

    Musk does remind of Trump somewhat in that I think he genuinely believes whatever he is saying at any given moment, even the stuff which is contradicting other things he has said, and he believes anything he reads. Really he should be the one running, but sadly that's not a possibility even if he were inclined (and a super billionaire wouldn't be).
    Chris Rock did a bit about that very idea. Elon Musk has negative cum!
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,158
    Andy_JS said:

    Thanks to whoever posted thet Janis Ian video earlier today. Never heard that song before but it's fantastic.

    I can remember just what a HUGE hit this song - and it's writer - were when it first came out.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_Seventeen
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,111
    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    1997/98 I'd say.
    There was an enjoyable series on BBC4 recently with a 'best of TOTP' from each year of the 90s. The decline - sudden, then abrupt - in enjoyability over the course of the series was quite depressing.
    Now, I like indie, and 1990 for me was about peak indie; I was less enthused by Britpop (1995) than Baggy (1990), but the early 90s were generally pretty good. But then, as you say, after about 97, a crash.

    That said, 2002-2010 was actually also pretty good for indie. I'd place the end of the golden period about 2010.

    Though I stick to the view that the absolute pinnacle of pop's golden era was 1977-1984.
    "Dance with Me", Reginald Bosanquet (1980)
    "The Birdie Song", The Tweets (1981)
    "Ebony and Ivory", Paul McCartney featuring Stevie Wonder (1982)
    "True", Spandau Ballet (1983)
    "Agadoo", Black Lace (1984)
    There is still much good music around, these days however you need to avoid looking at music put out by record labels and go to the self publishers and smaller labels.

    Also look outside your geographic area
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,240
    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    1997/98 I'd say.
    There was an enjoyable series on BBC4 recently with a 'best of TOTP' from each year of the 90s. The decline - sudden, then abrupt - in enjoyability over the course of the series was quite depressing.
    Now, I like indie, and 1990 for me was about peak indie; I was less enthused by Britpop (1995) than Baggy (1990), but the early 90s were generally pretty good. But then, as you say, after about 97, a crash.

    That said, 2002-2010 was actually also pretty good for indie. I'd place the end of the golden period about 2010.

    Though I stick to the view that the absolute pinnacle of pop's golden era was 1977-1984.
    "Dance with Me", Reginald Bosanquet (1980)
    "The Birdie Song", The Tweets (1981)
    "Ebony and Ivory", Paul McCartney featuring Stevie Wonder (1982)
    "True", Spandau Ballet (1983)
    "Agadoo", Black Lace (1984)
    Not a Tony Hadley fan I take it.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,634
    Farooq said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The golden era of pop started in 1956.
    Heartbreak Hotel, January 56.

    I don’t know when it ended, I’d moot sometime in the mid 2000s, but I’m not sure when.

    Of course there is still good music being made (just as there was before 1956), but it no longer has the ability to deliver or embody widespread cultural change.

    1997/98 I'd say.
    There was an enjoyable series on BBC4 recently with a 'best of TOTP' from each year of the 90s. The decline - sudden, then abrupt - in enjoyability over the course of the series was quite depressing.
    Now, I like indie, and 1990 for me was about peak indie; I was less enthused by Britpop (1995) than Baggy (1990), but the early 90s were generally pretty good. But then, as you say, after about 97, a crash.

    That said, 2002-2010 was actually also pretty good for indie. I'd place the end of the golden period about 2010.

    Though I stick to the view that the absolute pinnacle of pop's golden era was 1977-1984.
    "Dance with Me", Reginald Bosanquet (1980)
    "The Birdie Song", The Tweets (1981)
    "Ebony and Ivory", Paul McCartney featuring Stevie Wonder (1982)
    "True", Spandau Ballet (1983)
    "Agadoo", Black Lace (1984)
    On the other hand, you have for example Japan's 1981 album "Tin Drum".
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,398
    edited May 2023
    kle4 said:

    So cringey - please tell us more about Twitter, the boss is watching.

    The first question to DeSantis after his scripted opening pitch comes from the host, David Sacks.

    He asks DeSantis why he chose to make his announcement over Twitter Spaces instead of a more conventional route, like cable news or a rally.


    This is pretty funny though.

    "Twitter was expensive but free speech is priceless," [Musk] says, about his purchase of the tech platform after DeSantis compliments him on buying it.

    That must be why he tried to pull out of the deal entirely, either because he didn't want to buy it, or as a tactic to bargain down the price, which didn't work. Genius.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-65676382

    Musk sacked 80 per cent of Twitter staff and it still worked perfectly. Well, not quite perfectly, as shown tonight, but a nod's as good as a wink to a Twitter outage.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,398
    Patients to get choice of five hospitals under Sunak pledge
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/25/nhs-app-choice-five-hospitals-waiting-lists-virtual-wards/ (£££)

    SKS fans, please explain.
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    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,111

    Patients to get choice of five hospitals under Sunak pledge
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/25/nhs-app-choice-five-hospitals-waiting-lists-virtual-wards/ (£££)

    SKS fans, please explain.

    The who do you want to malpractise you choice?
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,398

    Patients to get choice of five hospitals under Sunak pledge
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/25/nhs-app-choice-five-hospitals-waiting-lists-virtual-wards/ (£££)

    SKS fans, please explain.

    Compare and contrast the government's shiny new policy to cut waiting lists by giving patients a choice of hospitals, with Labour's tired, 3-day old policy to cut waiting lists by giving patients a choice of hospitals.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65663464
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,240
    1991 looks to me to have been an astonishingly strong year for albums

    https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/albums_by_year/albums_1991.html
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,190
    On topic, I agree with Mike. She played the Trump era pretty cannily, avoided getting in fights with him but managed to get through it untarnished, and the calendar is pretty helpful to her.

    Two reservations:
    1) Total absence of any sign of enthusiasm for her in the polling, OTOH they don't seem to hate her either, and it's pretty common for primary winners to have a period when they're polling next to nothing.
    2) For now she seems to be going with the "don't criticize the front-runner" strategy that I'm sure is a loser no matter how much the base love the front-runner. But there's still time to change that.
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    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,147
    Whilst you’ve all been going Pop, I’ve noted Gilt yields now at Truss mini budget levels.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,398
    edited May 2023

    Whilst you’ve all been going Pop, I’ve noted Gilt yields now at Truss mini budget levels.

    I've noticed my savings dropped by 5 per cent yesterday.
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    WillGWillG Posts: 2,224
    Nikki Haley is a talented telegenic candidate. But the base is unhinged and wants red meat in the culture war.
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    WillGWillG Posts: 2,224

    kle4 said:

    So cringey - please tell us more about Twitter, the boss is watching.

    The first question to DeSantis after his scripted opening pitch comes from the host, David Sacks.

    He asks DeSantis why he chose to make his announcement over Twitter Spaces instead of a more conventional route, like cable news or a rally.


    This is pretty funny though.

    "Twitter was expensive but free speech is priceless," [Musk] says, about his purchase of the tech platform after DeSantis compliments him on buying it.

    That must be why he tried to pull out of the deal entirely, either because he didn't want to buy it, or as a tactic to bargain down the price, which didn't work. Genius.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-65676382

    Musk sacked 80 per cent of Twitter staff and it still worked perfectly. Well, not quite perfectly, as shown tonight, but a nod's as good as a wink to a Twitter outage.
    Musk is currently censoring mention of the opposition in Turkey. He doesn't give a damn about free speech. Usual right wing lies.
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    DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 750
    edited May 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    1991 looks to me to have been an astonishingly strong year for albums

    https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/albums_by_year/albums_1991.html

    That looks like quite a good site, haven't seen that one before.

    So I have 15 albums from the 1991 list and 6 from the 2022 list.

    Have thirteen albums from 2023 to date, top 5 so far are Lana Del Rey, Freya Ridings, Boygenius, Gabrielle Aplin and Jessie Ware - looking forward to new albums from Arlo Parks (out tomorrow), Noel Gallagher, Maisie Peters, The Japanese House, Blur, and Jorja Smith.

    Currently listening to the Talking Heads albums for the first time :smile:
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,917
    Well the DeSantis annoucement was distinctly low-key. 500k people listening on an audio platform managed to break Twitter, and doing it in a studio with no audience made the candidate sound even more flat than usual. He needs some serious media training, if he’s to come across as more enthusiastic and confident.
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