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Starmer extends his approval lead over Sunak – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Sandpit said:

    Why do politicians keep being asked about penises?

    Can't we mature the debate a bit?

    Because politicians keep saying that women have them.
    They keep being ASKED if they do, Ed Davey didn't bring it up.

    How would you field this question? How would you feel if you were a trans person who really felt they were a woman with the way they are talked about? Why can't we have a more mature conversation and look at this with some kindness and sympathy.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,609
    Sandpit said:

    Why do politicians keep being asked about penises?

    Can't we mature the debate a bit?

    Because politicians keep saying that women have them.
    It was an interview on LBC with a journalist, not a politician, asking the questions
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,609
    nico679 said:

    Sky saying the cabinet office have reported Johnson to the police over him inviting friends to Chequers during covid

    Johnson is a disgrace and I hope they throw the book at him

    Anyway at the very least he is not coming back

    https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-referred-to-police-over-fresh-claims-of-covid-lockdown-rule-breaking-12887865

    Hopefully this is the end . Could this though delay the Priviliges Committee report ?
    Good question
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Sandpit said:

    Why do politicians keep being asked about penises?

    Can't we mature the debate a bit?

    Because politicians keep saying that women have them.
    They keep being ASKED if they do, Ed Davey didn't bring it up.

    How would you field this question? How would you feel if you were a trans person who really felt they were a woman with the way they are talked about? Why can't we have a more mature conversation and look at this with some kindness and sympathy.
    Davey (and Starmer) knows he’s going to be asked the question, and has known for years that he’ll be asked the question.

    Yet he still doesn’t have anything close to a coherent answer on the subject.

    If and when he has a straight answer, the line of questioning would stop.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,943
    ping said:

    Lovely to see all the people who said Johnson was a superb PM whilst he was ahead now saying he is a disgrace.

    It was obvious before he was PM this would happen.

    I think the tories were idiots to make him PM. And idiots to get rid of him.

    I accept, I’m probably the only person in Britain with this view…
    The consideration is this: In 1995 John Yaki Da Redwood assembled a crack squad of misfits and tried to depose John Major. He lost. Is 2022 the equivalent of us finding out what it would have been like if he won?

    Boris was mad, bad and dangerous to have sex with. But Truss was Redwood - truly deranged and surrounded by wazzocks. But this goes one better because RedTruss was deposed and the 2022 William Waldergrave became PM.

    Redwood's campaign slogan was "Save Your Seat, Save Your Party, and Save Your Country". Exactly what the NatCs were foaming on about at their Hitler Youth Rally. So watch out, because Having gone for Redwood and ended up with Waldergrave, Boris is coming back...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Why do politicians keep being asked about penises?

    Can't we mature the debate a bit?

    Because politicians keep saying that women have them.
    They keep being ASKED if they do, Ed Davey didn't bring it up.

    How would you field this question? How would you feel if you were a trans person who really felt they were a woman with the way they are talked about? Why can't we have a more mature conversation and look at this with some kindness and sympathy.
    Davey (and Starmer) knows he’s going to be asked the question, and has known for years that he’ll be asked the question.

    Yet he still doesn’t have anything close to a coherent answer on the subject.

    If and when he has a straight answer, the line of questioning would stop.
    I’ve some sympathy for them. It’s a hideously divisive and thorny topic. But then it’s their own mad woke identity politics that have led them here so that sympathy is limited
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,471
    ping said:

    Lovely to see all the people who said Johnson was a superb PM whilst he was ahead now saying he is a disgrace.

    It was obvious before he was PM this would happen.

    I think the tories were idiots to make him PM. And idiots to get rid of him.

    I accept, I’m probably the only person in Britain with this view…
    There are at least two of us.
  • LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
    Were the lawyers acting for Johnson or the Government? Very, very different things.
    Acting for Johnson but being paid out of public funds via the Cabinet Office.

    The inference is that they had two clients and two competing duties of care.
    Really? Can you have one lawyer, two guvnors given potential for conflict? I'd assume the engagement letter is with the Cabinet Office given they are writing the cheques.

    Anyway, certainly they couldn't conceal information from the Cabinet Office in the interests of Johnson as that would be a clear conflict.
    Might have been a different outcome if Boris Johnson wasn't too tight to pay for his own representation.
    Indeed it would. And it would take a heart of stone etc.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857

    Sandpit said:

    Why do politicians keep being asked about penises?

    Can't we mature the debate a bit?

    Because politicians keep saying that women have them.
    They keep being ASKED if they do, Ed Davey didn't bring it up.

    How would you field this question? How would you feel if you were a trans person who really felt they were a woman with the way they are talked about? Why can't we have a more mature conversation and look at this with some kindness and sympathy.
    Proper 'gotcha' questions aren't as complexly tied up with issues of meaning, language, biology, psychology, metaphysics and so on, so that all sentient people know the only real answers involve complexity, uncertainty, and a clear, patient analysis of what the question and questioner means, and what range of answers might fruitfully pursue the difficult discussion.

    They should stick to questions of how minor parties in Montenegro feel about Brexit and what influence it will have on the election.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
    Were the lawyers acting for Johnson or the Government? Very, very different things.
    Acting for Johnson but being paid out of public funds via the Cabinet Office.

    The inference is that they had two clients and two competing duties of care.
    Really? Can you have one lawyer, two guvnors given potential for conflict? I'd assume the engagement letter is with the Cabinet Office given they are writing the cheques.

    Anyway, certainly they couldn't conceal information from the Cabinet Office in the interests of Johnson as that would be a clear conflict.
    It happens quite a lot in the private sector.

    An employee gets sued and the employee uses their indemnity insurance to help the employee with legal representation.

    Evidence turns out sub-optimally for the employee and their employer is like, sorry old bean, got to disclose this and we're withdrawing your legal representation.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Carnyx said:

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
    TV shows don't do nuance.

    The reason my father watches medical dramas is so he can laugh at them for all their mistakes.
    You should see what forensic pathologists and forensic scientists have to say.
    I know a crime scene investigator, he says he hasn't seen a crime show where every episode didn't involve the characters engaging in some massive contamination of a crime scene.

    Like wearing gloves will keep the scene clean.
    Your buddy would fall over laughing, viewing old episodes (the only kind) of "Highway Patrol" which was a big hit on US TV in 1950s.

    Came under sustained criticism from law enforcement due to show's gross lack of credibility.

    There was also fact that Broderick Crawford, star of "Highway Patrol" who was shown racing around the highways of southern California in highway patrol cars, was BANNED from driving in CA, because his drivers license was suspended due to arrests for driving under the influence.

    Somewhat ironic, in that the thing that made the show a hit, was its perceived (by viewers) authenticity!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378
    Cookie said:

    As Arthur Balfour said, nothing matters very much, and few things matter at all.

    I believe one Rt Hon Frederick Mercury, MP for Zanzibar once said something similar.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    LOL.

    Turns out Boris Johnson's lawyers are Oakeshott & Oakeshott, well known for their discretion and not screwing people over.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    As Arthur Balfour said, nothing matters very much, and few things matter at all.

    I believe one Rt Hon Frederick Mercury, MP for Zanzibar once said something similar.

    Hmmm

    https://youtu.be/mjvGjUovxPU
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,168
    edited May 2023

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
    Were the lawyers acting for Johnson or the Government? Very, very different things.
    Acting for Johnson but being paid out of public funds via the Cabinet Office.

    The inference is that they had two clients and two competing duties of care.
    Really? Can you have one lawyer, two guvnors given potential for conflict? I'd assume the engagement letter is with the Cabinet Office given they are writing the cheques.

    Anyway, certainly they couldn't conceal information from the Cabinet Office in the interests of Johnson as that would be a clear conflict.
    It happens quite a lot in the private sector.

    An employee gets sued and the employee uses their indemnity insurance to help the employee with legal representation.

    Evidence turns out sub-optimally for the employee and their employer is like, sorry old bean, got to disclose this and we're withdrawing your legal representation.
    In those circumstances, technically, does the lawyer really have two clients though? Or is the employer the client but the instruction is to do X, Y and Z in order to support the employee? You can be instructed to do various things that benefit person A, but ultimately your professional duty is to person B. What I slightly struggle with is the idea of having a professional duty to both A and B, in circumstances where there is a clear potential for their interests to diverge.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    ping said:

    Lovely to see all the people who said Johnson was a superb PM whilst he was ahead now saying he is a disgrace.

    It was obvious before he was PM this would happen.

    I think the tories were idiots to make him PM. And idiots to get rid of him.

    I accept, I’m probably the only person in Britain with this view…
    If the criteria is party prospects at the next election I agree they probably should have kept him. But if you go with that criteria why do you think they were idiots to make him PM? Because that's exactly why they did it. They picked him to win the next election and he duly delivered.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    I'll let you and Big G into a little secret.

    Both Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn were and are egregiously unfit to be Prime Minister.

    Trying to say Boris Johnson isn't as bad as Jeremy Corbyn is a bit like saying AIDS isn't as bad as cancer.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,980
    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Cummings v Milne is an interesting parallel debate
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    I'll put you in the yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable! camp then
    Agreed. And that is the morally correct place to be
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
    Were the lawyers acting for Johnson or the Government? Very, very different things.
    Acting for Johnson but being paid out of public funds via the Cabinet Office.

    The inference is that they had two clients and two competing duties of care.
    Really? Can you have one lawyer, two guvnors given potential for conflict? I'd assume the engagement letter is with the Cabinet Office given they are writing the cheques.

    Anyway, certainly they couldn't conceal information from the Cabinet Office in the interests of Johnson as that would be a clear conflict.
    It happens quite a lot in the private sector.

    An employee gets sued and the employee uses their indemnity insurance to help the employee with legal representation.

    Evidence turns out sub-optimally for the employee and their employer is like, sorry old bean, got to disclose this and we're withdrawing your legal representation.
    Solicitor/client privilege is distinct from the duty to disclose relevant material in litigation, whether or not it helps your cause, in discovery. It also does not permit a lawyer affirmatively to promulgate that which his instructions say is false.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    I'll let you and Big G into a little secret.

    Both Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn were and are egregiously unfit to be Prime Minister.

    Trying to say Boris Johnson isn't as bad as Jeremy Corbyn is a bit like saying AIDS isn't as bad as cancer.
    Er, AIDS really isn’t as bad as cancer. So, yeah
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
    Were the lawyers acting for Johnson or the Government? Very, very different things.
    Acting for Johnson but being paid out of public funds via the Cabinet Office.

    The inference is that they had two clients and two competing duties of care.
    Really? Can you have one lawyer, two guvnors given potential for conflict? I'd assume the engagement letter is with the Cabinet Office given they are writing the cheques.

    Anyway, certainly they couldn't conceal information from the Cabinet Office in the interests of Johnson as that would be a clear conflict.
    It happens quite a lot in the private sector.

    An employee gets sued and the employee uses their indemnity insurance to help the employee with legal representation.

    Evidence turns out sub-optimally for the employee and their employer is like, sorry old bean, got to disclose this and we're withdrawing your legal representation.
    In those circumstances, technically, does the lawyer really have two clients though? Or is the employer the client but the instruction is to do X, Y and Z in order to support the employee? You can be instructed to do various things that benefit person A, but ultimately your professional duty is to person B. What I slightly struggle with is the idea of having a professional duty to both A and B, in circumstances where there is a clear potential for their interests to diverge.
    It's one of those complicated issues.

    You check who the engagement letter is addressed to and work from there.

    In my scenario the employee thinks the solicitors/barristers have the employees best interests at heart but doesn't work that way.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    dixiedean said:

    ping said:

    Lovely to see all the people who said Johnson was a superb PM whilst he was ahead now saying he is a disgrace.

    It was obvious before he was PM this would happen.

    I think the tories were idiots to make him PM. And idiots to get rid of him.

    I accept, I’m probably the only person in Britain with this view…
    There are at least two of us.
    Though the Scottish Tories will beg to differ.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    I'll let you and Big G into a little secret.

    Both Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn were and are egregiously unfit to be Prime Minister.

    Trying to say Boris Johnson isn't as bad as Jeremy Corbyn is a bit like saying AIDS isn't as bad as cancer.
    Er, AIDS really isn’t as bad as cancer. So, yeah
    I meant AIDS in the 80s.

    Was a death sentence until the Thatcher government got involved.

    Norman Fowler, a secular saint.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,236

    rkrkrk said:

    Leon said:

    “The vast majority of economists, including me, thought Brexit would make the UK considerably less open to both trade and migration with the EU, but somewhat more so to the rest of the world. We were right. We also thought that the downsides of the former would outweigh the upside of the latter. We were wrong.

    “In fact, the new post-Brexit migration system has achieved its key objectives. By ending free movement, it has reduced the flow of relatively lower skilled and lower paid workers to some sectors. But by liberalising migration flows from the rest of the world, it has substantially increased those coming to work in the NHS, the care sector, and high-skilled and high-paid roles in information and communications technology, finance and professional services.”

    Well I never

    Jonathan Portes showing he's an original thinker unencumbered by partisan politics. Great piece. To some extent this is a vindication of Dom Cummings also.
    Portes is a great economist. I think his piece in the Guardian though is too ready to focus on one positive aspect of Brexit - the increased net migration and changed composition of inflows of people - without looking at the broader picture and especially the impact on trade and inwards investment, which remains clearly negative. Like him, I am happy to admit that Brexit has actually increased net immigration rather than reduced it. The problem I have with the new immigration regime isn't the increased numbers coming in, which I have no problem with, but the loss of reciprocity.
    Exactly this. He is taking one factor in isolation, immigration, where immigration is seen to be good. He doesn't even consider migration in the round where our loss of freedom of movement means less economic activity, let some the other downsides of Brexit such as loss of investment, trade and productivity.

    Also the increase in immigration wasn't enabled by Brexit. We could have exactly the same before but chose not to.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Cummings v Milne is an interesting parallel debate
    Not really. Cummings is super intelligent and wins elections and referendums. I’ve seen no evidence for Milne being even smart and he certainly never won any elections

    Milne is a classic posho public school Marxist. The Winchester version of bouji grammar school Corbyn
  • SteveSSteveS Posts: 190
    @Leon. If you’re still in downtown Cairo check out Carol’s bar. One of the few places where the locals can drink alcohol and refreshing to see female Cairenes removing headscarves when they enter (and sad to see them replacing them before they leave)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    Farooq said:

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
    Were the lawyers acting for Johnson or the Government? Very, very different things.
    Acting for Johnson but being paid out of public funds via the Cabinet Office.

    The inference is that they had two clients and two competing duties of care.
    Really? Can you have one lawyer, two guvnors given potential for conflict? I'd assume the engagement letter is with the Cabinet Office given they are writing the cheques.

    Anyway, certainly they couldn't conceal information from the Cabinet Office in the interests of Johnson as that would be a clear conflict.
    It happens quite a lot in the private sector.

    An employee gets sued and the employee uses their indemnity insurance to help the employee with legal representation.

    Evidence turns out sub-optimally for the employee and their employer is like, sorry old bean, got to disclose this and we're withdrawing your legal representation.
    In those circumstances, technically, does the lawyer really have two clients though? Or is the employer the client but the instruction is to do X, Y and Z in order to support the employee? You can be instructed to do various things that benefit person A, but ultimately your professional duty is to person B. What I slightly struggle with is the idea of having a professional duty to both A and B, in circumstances where there is a clear potential for their interests to diverge.
    It's one of those complicated issues.

    You check who the engagement letter is addressed to and work from there.

    In my scenario the employee thinks the solicitors/barristers have the employees best interests at heart but doesn't work that way.
    I'm sorry but you should be disbarred for such an obviously flawed post.
    You check whom the engagement letter is addressed to etc.
    Can I blame auto-correct and the fact I'm concurrently WhatsApping the other half?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    If the police are no longer investigating burglaries do we expect them to continue investigating lockdown offences?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    edited May 2023

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    I'll let you and Big G into a little secret.

    Both Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn were and are egregiously unfit to be Prime Minister.

    Trying to say Boris Johnson isn't as bad as Jeremy Corbyn is a bit like saying AIDS isn't as bad as cancer.
    Er, AIDS really isn’t as bad as cancer. So, yeah
    I meant AIDS in the 80s.

    Was a death sentence until the Thatcher government got involved.

    Norman Fowler, a secular saint.
    A fair old chunk of the credit goes to the people who actually developed the treatments.

    The spread of AIDS was more limited by the behaviour of the various groups within society, than the campaigns, I think.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,943
    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Agree with this. Boris is the most unsuitable person to have been PM in living memory. But would have been dwarfed by the sheer WTAF of Corbyn becoming PM.

    But what does it matter. Corbyn wasn't PM, wasn't ever going to PM, despite the crank-foaming never got near becoming PM.

    Boris on the other hand? There's an awful lot of very angry people out there who still rage about what Boris did to their lives during Covid. Their own mental hell. Marriages broken. Parents lost remotely. Whilst he said "what rules" and carried on being a "selfish libertine".

    There are very few people who will refuse to vote Labour because Corbyn was once leader. An awful lot who already are refusing to vote Conservative because Boris was PM. Labour wanted to move on from Jezbollah so badly that he's been excommunicated. The Tories want Boris back so badly that he has his own fanclub (Tories for Democracy thingy) and now CrankCom (NatC conference).
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,442

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    I'll let you and Big G into a little secret.

    Both Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn were and are egregiously unfit to be Prime Minister.

    Trying to say Boris Johnson isn't as bad as Jeremy Corbyn is a bit like saying AIDS isn't as bad as cancer.
    One pragmatic reason to have put BoJo in the big chair.

    It was increasingly obvious that, until he got the leadership, he was going to destabilise whoever was the leader. Again and again and again.

    If you want to stop him, you need to keep him off the candidates list sometime back in the mid 90s.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    edited May 2023

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    I'll let you and Big G into a little secret.

    Both Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn were and are egregiously unfit to be Prime Minister.

    Trying to say Boris Johnson isn't as bad as Jeremy Corbyn is a bit like saying AIDS isn't as bad as cancer.
    Er, AIDS really isn’t as bad as cancer. So, yeah
    I meant AIDS in the 80s.

    Was a death sentence until the Thatcher government got involved.

    Norman Fowler, a secular saint.
    A fair old pike if credit goes to the people who actually developed the treatments.

    The spread of AIDS was more limited by the behaviour of the various groups within society, than the campaigns, I think.
    Depended a bit [edit] on the group, perhaps. There was at least one journalist desperately trying to argue that it didn't affect heterosexuals. I also seem to remember the same journalist being ... but anyway HMG did help to disabuse folk of tnat notion.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,980
    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Cummings v Milne is an interesting parallel debate
    Not really. Cummings is super intelligent and wins elections and referendums. I’ve seen no evidence for Milne being even smart and he certainly never won any elections

    Milne is a classic posho public school Marxist. The Winchester version of bouji grammar school Corbyn
    And a lot of people who lost a referendum think that Cummings is super evil, while not having much at all to say about the man who wrote Corbyn's Salisbury response
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    edited May 2023
    From The Times, I think this mean the report may well be delayed.

    The privileges committee, which is investigating claims that Johnson misled parliament over lockdown-breaking parties, has been informed.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    If the police are no longer investigating burglaries do we expect them to continue investigating lockdown offences?

    I doubt they would if it was you or I. All a bit political really.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    I'll let you and Big G into a little secret.

    Both Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn were and are egregiously unfit to be Prime Minister.

    Trying to say Boris Johnson isn't as bad as Jeremy Corbyn is a bit like saying AIDS isn't as bad as cancer.
    Er, AIDS really isn’t as bad as cancer. So, yeah
    I meant AIDS in the 80s.

    Was a death sentence until the Thatcher government got involved.

    Norman Fowler, a secular saint.
    A fair old pike if credit goes to the people who actually developed the treatments.

    The spread of AIDS was more limited by the behaviour of the various groups within society, than the campaigns, I think.
    Depended a bit [edit] on the group, perhaps. There was at least one journalist desperately trying to argue that it didn't affect heterosexuals. I also seem to remember the same journalist being ... but anyway HMG did help to disabuse folk of tnat notion.
    Andrew Neil blocks people on Twitter over that.

    He hates his AIDS denialism being brought up.

    His conduct was reprehensible as those cretins Andrew Wakefield and Ian Hislop.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    SteveS said:

    @Leon. If you’re still in downtown Cairo check out Carol’s bar. One of the few places where the locals can drink alcohol and refreshing to see female Cairenes removing headscarves when they enter (and sad to see them replacing them before they leave)

    Sadly I’m drunk on a plane back to the Smoke. Well not that sadly but narmean

    You’ll be happy to hear that headscarf wearing is way way down in Cairo. It’s a striking change. It’s Sisi crushing the Muslim brotherhood. The effect is obvious. The city feels significantly more relaxed, liberal and optimistic than it did 10-20 years ago

    Egyptian kids are now sometimes hard to differentiate from, say, Greek kids
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    One other point about Ely that hasn't really been mentioned is that it is in Drakeford's constitueny. As I've said before you seen more of MP Kevin Brennan around here.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Agree with this. Boris is the most unsuitable person to have been PM in living memory. But would have been dwarfed by the sheer WTAF of Corbyn becoming PM.

    But what does it matter. Corbyn wasn't PM, wasn't ever going to PM, despite the crank-foaming never got near becoming PM.

    Boris on the other hand? There's an awful lot of very angry people out there who still rage about what Boris did to their lives during Covid. Their own mental hell. Marriages broken. Parents lost remotely. Whilst he said "what rules" and carried on being a "selfish libertine".

    There are very few people who will refuse to vote Labour because Corbyn was once leader. An awful lot who already are refusing to vote Conservative because Boris was PM. Labour wanted to move on from Jezbollah so badly that he's been excommunicated. The Tories want Boris back so badly that he has his own fanclub (Tories for Democracy thingy) and now CrankCom (NatC conference).
    Some valid points here

    However on lockdown never forget that Starmer and Labour wanted MORE lockdown - and would have had us trapped at home until about June 2022 (with all the extra debt)
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,554
    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Cummings v Milne is an interesting parallel debate
    Not really. Cummings is super intelligent and wins elections and referendums. I’ve seen no evidence for Milne being even smart and he certainly never won any elections

    Milne is a classic posho public school Marxist. The Winchester version of bouji grammar school Corbyn
    There was a poster here for a while, DJ41 I think his ID was, who I would swear was Milne. More pro-Russia than our Saturday job chaps but was definitely an older old-Wykehamist.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Cummings v Milne is an interesting parallel debate
    Not really. Cummings is super intelligent and wins elections and referendums. I’ve seen no evidence for Milne being even smart and he certainly never won any elections

    Milne is a classic posho public school Marxist. The Winchester version of bouji grammar school Corbyn
    And a lot of people who lost a referendum think that Cummings is super evil, while not having much at all to say about the man who wrote Corbyn's Salisbury response
    There you go again.

    Both Seumas Milne and Dom Cummings are absolute shits of the highest order.

    The taxpayers have paid out substantial money because of the latter's bullying.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/13/special-adviser-sacked-by-dominic-cummings-to-receive-payoff
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,032
    Quite hilarious to see some Tory MPs blame the civil service for their own MPs continually thinking the law doesn’t apply to them

    The majority of them probably need sweeping away at the next election.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    I'll let you and Big G into a little secret.

    Both Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn were and are egregiously unfit to be Prime Minister.

    Trying to say Boris Johnson isn't as bad as Jeremy Corbyn is a bit like saying AIDS isn't as bad as cancer.
    Er, AIDS really isn’t as bad as cancer. So, yeah
    I meant AIDS in the 80s.

    Was a death sentence until the Thatcher government got involved.

    Norman Fowler, a secular saint.
    A fair old pike if credit goes to the people who actually developed the treatments.

    The spread of AIDS was more limited by the behaviour of the various groups within society, than the campaigns, I think.
    Depended a bit [edit] on the group, perhaps. There was at least one journalist desperately trying to argue that it didn't affect heterosexuals. I also seem to remember the same journalist being ... but anyway HMG did help to disabuse folk of tnat notion.
    Andrew Neil blocks people on Twitter over that.

    He hates his AIDS denialism being brought up.

    His conduct was reprehensible as those cretins Andrew Wakefield and Ian Hislop.
    What did Ian Hislop do?
    Enabled Wakefield, gave his bullshit prominence in Private Eye, even published a special.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2010/feb/05/private-eye-magazines
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Cummings v Milne is an interesting parallel debate
    Not really. Cummings is super intelligent and wins elections and referendums. I’ve seen no evidence for Milne being even smart and he certainly never won any elections

    Milne is a classic posho public school Marxist. The Winchester version of bouji grammar school Corbyn
    And a lot of people who lost a referendum think that Cummings is super evil, while not having much at all to say about the man who wrote Corbyn's Salisbury response
    There you go again.

    Both Seumas Milne and Dom Cummings are absolute shits of the highest order.

    The taxpayers have paid out substantial money because of the latter's bullying.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/13/special-adviser-sacked-by-dominic-cummings-to-receive-payoff
    Yes but Milne is a Marxist traitor. This stuff isn’t hard

    Milne supports Islamists and cheered on 9/11. He got jihadists in to write for the guardian. He thinks Stalin is cool

    Cummings might be an arrogant dick and even a bully but if you can’t see the crucial political difference between the two of them then there’s no hope for you
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Cummings v Milne is an interesting parallel debate
    Not really. Cummings is super intelligent and wins elections and referendums. I’ve seen no evidence for Milne being even smart and he certainly never won any elections

    Milne is a classic posho public school Marxist. The Winchester version of bouji grammar school Corbyn
    And a lot of people who lost a referendum think that Cummings is super evil, while not having much at all to say about the man who wrote Corbyn's Salisbury response
    There you go again.

    Both Seumas Milne and Dom Cummings are absolute shits of the highest order.

    The taxpayers have paid out substantial money because of the latter's bullying.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/13/special-adviser-sacked-by-dominic-cummings-to-receive-payoff
    Yes but Milne is a Marxist traitor. This stuff isn’t hard

    Milne supports Islamists and cheered on 9/11. He got jihadists in to write for the guardian. He thinks Stalin is cool

    Cummings might be an arrogant dick and even a bully but if you can’t see the crucial political difference between the two of them then there’s no hope for you
    Oh behave you soaked up ludicrous popinjay.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    I'll let you and Big G into a little secret.

    Both Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn were and are egregiously unfit to be Prime Minister.

    Trying to say Boris Johnson isn't as bad as Jeremy Corbyn is a bit like saying AIDS isn't as bad as cancer.
    Er, AIDS really isn’t as bad as cancer. So, yeah
    I meant AIDS in the 80s.

    Was a death sentence until the Thatcher government got involved.

    Norman Fowler, a secular saint.
    A fair old pike if credit goes to the people who actually developed the treatments.

    The spread of AIDS was more limited by the behaviour of the various groups within society, than the campaigns, I think.
    Depended a bit [edit] on the group, perhaps. There was at least one journalist desperately trying to argue that it didn't affect heterosexuals. I also seem to remember the same journalist being ... but anyway HMG did help to disabuse folk of tnat notion.
    Andrew Neil blocks people on Twitter over that.

    He hates his AIDS denialism being brought up.

    His conduct was reprehensible as those cretins Andrew Wakefield and Ian Hislop.
    What did Ian Hislop do?
    Enabled Wakefield, gave his bullshit prominence in Private Eye, even published a special.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2010/feb/05/private-eye-magazines
    Hmmm, not good. This is all new information for me.
    I hope I'm still allowed to like Paul Merton though.
    You are.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,980
    x
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Cummings v Milne is an interesting parallel debate
    Not really. Cummings is super intelligent and wins elections and referendums. I’ve seen no evidence for Milne being even smart and he certainly never won any elections

    Milne is a classic posho public school Marxist. The Winchester version of bouji grammar school Corbyn
    And a lot of people who lost a referendum think that Cummings is super evil, while not having much at all to say about the man who wrote Corbyn's Salisbury response
    There you go again.

    Both Seumas Milne and Dom Cummings are absolute shits of the highest order.

    The taxpayers have paid out substantial money because of the latter's bullying.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/13/special-adviser-sacked-by-dominic-cummings-to-receive-payoff
    Yes but Milne is a Marxist traitor. This stuff isn’t hard

    Milne supports Islamists and cheered on 9/11. He got jihadists in to write for the guardian. He thinks Stalin is cool

    Cummings might be an arrogant dick and even a bully but if you can’t see the crucial political difference between the two of them then there’s no hope for you
    It seems to be a more interesting parallel than you gave it credit for
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,932
    At the Albert hall for the Jeff Beck tribute concert. Stuffed full of Americans who seem to have made the trip just for the concert.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378
    Farooq said:

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
    Were the lawyers acting for Johnson or the Government? Very, very different things.
    Acting for Johnson but being paid out of public funds via the Cabinet Office.

    The inference is that they had two clients and two competing duties of care.
    Really? Can you have one lawyer, two guvnors given potential for conflict? I'd assume the engagement letter is with the Cabinet Office given they are writing the cheques.

    Anyway, certainly they couldn't conceal information from the Cabinet Office in the interests of Johnson as that would be a clear conflict.
    It happens quite a lot in the private sector.

    An employee gets sued and the employee uses their indemnity insurance to help the employee with legal representation.

    Evidence turns out sub-optimally for the employee and their employer is like, sorry old bean, got to disclose this and we're withdrawing your legal representation.
    In those circumstances, technically, does the lawyer really have two clients though? Or is the employer the client but the instruction is to do X, Y and Z in order to support the employee? You can be instructed to do various things that benefit person A, but ultimately your professional duty is to person B. What I slightly struggle with is the idea of having a professional duty to both A and B, in circumstances where there is a clear potential for their interests to diverge.
    It's one of those complicated issues.

    You check who the engagement letter is addressed to and work from there.

    In my scenario the employee thinks the solicitors/barristers have the employees best interests at heart but doesn't work that way.
    I'm sorry but you should be disbarred for such an obviously flawed post.
    You check whom the engagement letter is addressed to etc.
    To whom the engagement letter is addressed.

    Perhaps this will help

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYJ5_wqlQPg
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,760
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Cummings v Milne is an interesting parallel debate
    Not really. Cummings is super intelligent and wins elections and referendums. I’ve seen no evidence for Milne being even smart and he certainly never won any elections

    Milne is a classic posho public school Marxist. The Winchester version of bouji grammar school Corbyn
    There was a poster here for a while, DJ41 I think his ID was, who I would swear was Milne. More pro-Russia than our Saturday job chaps but was definitely an older old-Wykehamist.
    That's quite a perceptive call and could well be true. DJ41 was quite well informed and lucid but obviously a trot/SWP.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    From The Times, I think this mean the report may well be delayed.

    The privileges committee, which is investigating claims that Johnson misled parliament over lockdown-breaking parties, has been informed.

    So here’s a simple question.

    We’re Bozo to resign (for the greater good, to avoid being a distraction) when the inevitable x0 days suspension is given, how likely is he to be given a winnable seat in Oxfordshire come the next election?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    Farooq said:

    Question about Boris apparently hosting friends a Chequers. Is this a normal use of grace-and-favour properties? Are they free for the office holder to use for whatever they like or are there restrictions? I'm talking in general here, rather than specifically about Covid rules.
    Are there any tax implications about the private use of these properties?

    No.

    If you invite friends and family over you pay for the food etc.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    x

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Cummings v Milne is an interesting parallel debate
    Not really. Cummings is super intelligent and wins elections and referendums. I’ve seen no evidence for Milne being even smart and he certainly never won any elections

    Milne is a classic posho public school Marxist. The Winchester version of bouji grammar school Corbyn
    And a lot of people who lost a referendum think that Cummings is super evil, while not having much at all to say about the man who wrote Corbyn's Salisbury response
    There you go again.

    Both Seumas Milne and Dom Cummings are absolute shits of the highest order.

    The taxpayers have paid out substantial money because of the latter's bullying.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/13/special-adviser-sacked-by-dominic-cummings-to-receive-payoff
    Yes but Milne is a Marxist traitor. This stuff isn’t hard

    Milne supports Islamists and cheered on 9/11. He got jihadists in to write for the guardian. He thinks Stalin is cool

    Cummings might be an arrogant dick and even a bully but if you can’t see the crucial political difference between the two of them then there’s no hope for you
    It seems to be a more interesting parallel than you gave it credit for
    Cummings is more like a right wing Alistair Campbell. Aggressive, clever, articulate, arrogant, macho, has personality issues

    Milne is a pretty unique sort of Englishman that only occurs on the left. The upper upper middle class Marxist. Kim Philby etc
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,835
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    I'll let you and Big G into a little secret.

    Both Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn were and are egregiously unfit to be Prime Minister.

    Trying to say Boris Johnson isn't as bad as Jeremy Corbyn is a bit like saying AIDS isn't as bad as cancer.
    Er, AIDS really isn’t as bad as cancer. So, yeah
    I meant AIDS in the 80s.

    Was a death sentence until the Thatcher government got involved.

    Norman Fowler, a secular saint.
    A fair old pike if credit goes to the people who actually developed the treatments.

    The spread of AIDS was more limited by the behaviour of the various groups within society, than the campaigns, I think.
    Depended a bit [edit] on the group, perhaps. There was at least one journalist desperately trying to argue that it didn't affect heterosexuals. I also seem to remember the same journalist being ... but anyway HMG did help to disabuse folk of tnat notion.
    Andrew Neil blocks people on Twitter over that.

    He hates his AIDS denialism being brought up.

    His conduct was reprehensible as those cretins Andrew Wakefield and Ian Hislop.
    What did Ian Hislop do?
    Enabled Wakefield, gave his bullshit prominence in Private Eye, even published a special.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2010/feb/05/private-eye-magazines
    Hmmm, not good. This is all new information for me.
    I hope I'm still allowed to like Paul Merton though.
    Here's an article by Merton's late wife, explaining how he supported her choice to take vegetable smoothies instead of chemo for a treatable cancer:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2003/sep/26/health.lifeandhealth

    Her free choice to make, of course. But if you really want to temper your love of Paul Merton, read that.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Why do politicians keep being asked about penises?

    Can't we mature the debate a bit?

    Because politicians keep saying that women have them.
    They keep being ASKED if they do, Ed Davey didn't bring it up.

    How would you field this question? How would you feel if you were a trans person who really felt they were a woman with the way they are talked about? Why can't we have a more mature conversation and look at this with some kindness and sympathy.
    Davey (and Starmer) knows he’s going to be asked the question, and has known for years that he’ll be asked the question.

    Yet he still doesn’t have anything close to a coherent answer on the subject.

    If and when he has a straight answer, the line of questioning would stop.
    I’ve some sympathy for them. It’s a hideously divisive and thorny topic. But then it’s their own mad woke identity politics that have led them here so that sympathy is limited
    The Gender Recognition Act of 2004 (and many countries have similar) provides a legal route for someone to change their gender without being compelled to have surgery. No country that has introduced this social reform has ever reversed it and no mainstream political party in the UK (inc the Conservatives) is proposing to repeal it here. So what I conclude is that these 'gotcha' questions about women and penises etc seek to provoke and confuse rather than enlighten.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    x

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Cummings v Milne is an interesting parallel debate
    Not really. Cummings is super intelligent and wins elections and referendums. I’ve seen no evidence for Milne being even smart and he certainly never won any elections

    Milne is a classic posho public school Marxist. The Winchester version of bouji grammar school Corbyn
    And a lot of people who lost a referendum think that Cummings is super evil, while not having much at all to say about the man who wrote Corbyn's Salisbury response
    There you go again.

    Both Seumas Milne and Dom Cummings are absolute shits of the highest order.

    The taxpayers have paid out substantial money because of the latter's bullying.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/13/special-adviser-sacked-by-dominic-cummings-to-receive-payoff
    Yes but Milne is a Marxist traitor. This stuff isn’t hard

    Milne supports Islamists and cheered on 9/11. He got jihadists in to write for the guardian. He thinks Stalin is cool

    Cummings might be an arrogant dick and even a bully but if you can’t see the crucial political difference between the two of them then there’s no hope for you
    It seems to be a more interesting parallel than you gave it credit for
    Btw I’ve been meaning to ask. Did you hear any Breton spoken on your recent hols?

    I’m reading a book about old pagan Europe and it’s talking about Celtic languages and I’ve realised I’ve never heard Breton spoken in real life

    I’ve heard every other extant Celtic tongue. Welsh, Irish, Gallic - but not Breton

    Wiki claims a lot of speakers but I wonder
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    Farooq said:

    Question about Boris apparently hosting friends a Chequers. Is this a normal use of grace-and-favour properties? Are they free for the office holder to use for whatever they like or are there restrictions? I'm talking in general here, rather than specifically about Covid rules.
    Are there any tax implications about the private use of these properties?

    No.

    If you invite friends and family over you pay for the food etc.
    I do wonder if Bozo paid reported and paid for the hospitality - given the timing I suspect he hasn’t.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,442
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Cummings v Milne is an interesting parallel debate
    Not really. Cummings is super intelligent and wins elections and referendums. I’ve seen no evidence for Milne being even smart and he certainly never won any elections

    Milne is a classic posho public school Marxist. The Winchester version of bouji grammar school Corbyn
    And a lot of people who lost a referendum think that Cummings is super evil, while not having much at all to say about the man who wrote Corbyn's Salisbury response
    There you go again.

    Both Seumas Milne and Dom Cummings are absolute shits of the highest order.

    The taxpayers have paid out substantial money because of the latter's bullying.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/13/special-adviser-sacked-by-dominic-cummings-to-receive-payoff
    Yes but Milne is a Marxist traitor. This stuff isn’t hard

    Milne supports Islamists and cheered on 9/11. He got jihadists in to write for the guardian. He thinks Stalin is cool

    Cummings might be an arrogant dick and even a bully but if you can’t see the crucial political difference between the two of them then there’s no hope for you
    There's a genuinely important question here.

    How fash does the far right have to get before Marxism is preferable? Not objectively good, but the lesser of two evils.

    Hitler obviously. ("If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.")

    Franco? Probably, though it needs a pause for thought.

    The fringier bits of US National Conservatism?

    None of which stops Corbyn being a fool at best and probably a lot worse than that.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    Question:

    I am on my way to Heathrow. I just left a work do, with wine. I’ll arrive and go into the lounge, where there will be free drinks. Then the plane, where they’ll serve free drinks. All being well I arrive in Singapore tomorrow at 6pm just in time for the “gala event” at our conference with free drinks.

    Do I:

    A. Treat this as some 24 hour stag-like bender and just drink and eat my way through it,
    B. Abstain in the lounge and go straight to sleep on the plane?

    Decisions decisions
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,943
    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Agree with this. Boris is the most unsuitable person to have been PM in living memory. But would have been dwarfed by the sheer WTAF of Corbyn becoming PM.

    But what does it matter. Corbyn wasn't PM, wasn't ever going to PM, despite the crank-foaming never got near becoming PM.

    Boris on the other hand? There's an awful lot of very angry people out there who still rage about what Boris did to their lives during Covid. Their own mental hell. Marriages broken. Parents lost remotely. Whilst he said "what rules" and carried on being a "selfish libertine".

    There are very few people who will refuse to vote Labour because Corbyn was once leader. An awful lot who already are refusing to vote Conservative because Boris was PM. Labour wanted to move on from Jezbollah so badly that he's been excommunicated. The Tories want Boris back so badly that he has his own fanclub (Tories for Democracy thingy) and now CrankCom (NatC conference).
    Some valid points here

    However on lockdown never forget that Starmer and Labour wanted MORE lockdown - and would have had us trapped at home until about June 2022 (with all the extra debt)
    I keep hearing this "naah but Starmer wanted more lockdown" thing. Boris kept fucking up unlockdown - the idiocy over Christmas 2020 being a prime example.

    The only person making the decision was Boris. The only person passing the legislation was Boris. Not Starmer. Lockdown drove me mildly mad and did much worse to other people. But the alternative was the script of the film Contagion. Lockdown isn't the problem - that fucker brazenly ignoring it, and stuffing billions into Tory pockets in exchange for no PPE which killed medics is the problem.

    What does Starmer have to do with it?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    Farooq said:

    Question about Boris apparently hosting friends a Chequers. Is this a normal use of grace-and-favour properties? Are they free for the office holder to use for whatever they like or are there restrictions? I'm talking in general here, rather than specifically about Covid rules.
    Are there any tax implications about the private use of these properties?

    No.

    If you invite friends and family over you pay for the food etc.
    A symptom of British decline.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Why do politicians keep being asked about penises?

    Can't we mature the debate a bit?

    Because politicians keep saying that women have them.
    They keep being ASKED if they do, Ed Davey didn't bring it up.

    How would you field this question? How would you feel if you were a trans person who really felt they were a woman with the way they are talked about? Why can't we have a more mature conversation and look at this with some kindness and sympathy.
    Davey (and Starmer) knows he’s going to be asked the question, and has known for years that he’ll be asked the question.

    Yet he still doesn’t have anything close to a coherent answer on the subject.

    If and when he has a straight answer, the line of questioning would stop.
    I’ve some sympathy for them. It’s a hideously divisive and thorny topic. But then it’s their own mad woke identity politics that have led them here so that sympathy is limited
    The Gender Recognition Act of 2004 (and many countries have similar) provides a legal route for someone to change their gender without being compelled to have surgery. No country that has introduced this social reform has ever reversed it and no mainstream political party in the UK (inc the Conservatives) is proposing to repeal it here. So what I conclude is that these 'gotcha' questions about women and penises etc seek to provoke and confuse rather than enlighten.
    My point was more political. The question will now always be asked - you can’t wish it away - and a clever politician needs a ready answer that doesn’t sound insane to 70% of voters

    I’d go with “no, a woman can’t have a penis. That’s a trans woman”. But I thank allah I am not a politician in this case
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,442
    eek said:

    From The Times, I think this mean the report may well be delayed.

    The privileges committee, which is investigating claims that Johnson misled parliament over lockdown-breaking parties, has been informed.

    So here’s a simple question.

    We’re Bozo to resign (for the greater good, to avoid being a distraction) when the inevitable x0 days suspension is given, how likely is he to be given a winnable seat in Oxfordshire come the next election?
    Fairly unlikely, because I doubt that there's a seat in Oxfordshire that Boris could win. If here were parachuted somewhere agreeable and apparently securely blue, I expect an anti-sleaze candidate would emerge faster than you can say "Martin Bell in a White Suit".
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Why do politicians keep being asked about penises?

    Can't we mature the debate a bit?

    Because politicians keep saying that women have them.
    They keep being ASKED if they do, Ed Davey didn't bring it up.

    How would you field this question? How would you feel if you were a trans person who really felt they were a woman with the way they are talked about? Why can't we have a more mature conversation and look at this with some kindness and sympathy.
    Davey (and Starmer) knows he’s going to be asked the question, and has known for years that he’ll be asked the question.

    Yet he still doesn’t have anything close to a coherent answer on the subject.

    If and when he has a straight answer, the line of questioning would stop.
    I’ve some sympathy for them. It’s a hideously divisive and thorny topic. But then it’s their own mad woke identity politics that have led them here so that sympathy is limited
    It's not really, though, is it?

    Women don't have penises.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240
    Cherwell District Council has just become a minority Conservative administration after all manner of unseemly shenanigans on the part of the local Labour party, who refused to form a coalition with the LibDem/Green group unless the LibDems jettisoned the Greens.

    I suspect this will turn out to be a self-inflicted wound on Labour's part, not least in the next GE where they need LibDem tactical votes in the Banbury constituency.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Cummings v Milne is an interesting parallel debate
    Not really. Cummings is super intelligent and wins elections and referendums. I’ve seen no evidence for Milne being even smart and he certainly never won any elections

    Milne is a classic posho public school Marxist. The Winchester version of bouji grammar school Corbyn
    And a lot of people who lost a referendum think that Cummings is super evil, while not having much at all to say about the man who wrote Corbyn's Salisbury response
    There you go again.

    Both Seumas Milne and Dom Cummings are absolute shits of the highest order.

    The taxpayers have paid out substantial money because of the latter's bullying.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/13/special-adviser-sacked-by-dominic-cummings-to-receive-payoff
    Yes but Milne is a Marxist traitor. This stuff isn’t hard

    Milne supports Islamists and cheered on 9/11. He got jihadists in to write for the guardian. He thinks Stalin is cool

    Cummings might be an arrogant dick and even a bully but if you can’t see the crucial political difference between the two of them then there’s no hope for you
    There's a genuinely important question here.

    How fash does the far right have to get before Marxism is preferable? Not objectively good, but the lesser of two evils.

    Hitler obviously. ("If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.")

    Franco? Probably, though it needs a pause for thought.

    The fringier bits of US National Conservatism?

    None of which stops Corbyn being a fool at best and probably a lot worse than that.
    I’ll bite. Franco was preferable to the Stalinist communism which was, eventually, the only apparent alternative during the Spanish civil war. As Orwell discovered
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Why do politicians keep being asked about penises?

    Can't we mature the debate a bit?

    Because politicians keep saying that women have them.
    They keep being ASKED if they do, Ed Davey didn't bring it up.

    How would you field this question? How would you feel if you were a trans person who really felt they were a woman with the way they are talked about? Why can't we have a more mature conversation and look at this with some kindness and sympathy.
    Davey (and Starmer) knows he’s going to be asked the question, and has known for years that he’ll be asked the question.

    Yet he still doesn’t have anything close to a coherent answer on the subject.

    If and when he has a straight answer, the line of questioning would stop.
    I’ve some sympathy for them. It’s a hideously divisive and thorny topic. But then it’s their own mad woke identity politics that have led them here so that sympathy is limited
    The Gender Recognition Act of 2004 (and many countries have similar) provides a legal route for someone to change their gender without being compelled to have surgery. No country that has introduced this social reform has ever reversed it and no mainstream political party in the UK (inc the Conservatives) is proposing to repeal it here. So what I conclude is that these 'gotcha' questions about women and penises etc seek to provoke and confuse rather than enlighten.
    My point was more political. The question will now always be asked - you can’t wish it away - and a clever politician needs a ready answer that doesn’t sound insane to 70% of voters

    I’d go with “no, a woman can’t have a penis. That’s a trans woman”. But I thank allah I am not a politician in this case
    I’d go on the offensive. “You think this is such a fucking gotcha don’t you. Are you actually interested in the answer or are you just being oh so edgy? Ask me sensible questions about policy on trans rights and I’ll happily answer, but don’t give me all this shit. And don’t go protesting that you’re just voicing “real concerns”, you’re not. You’re trying for a gotcha”.

    Or something along those lines. It’s the embarrassed faffing around the topic that looks so silly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    TimS said:

    Question:

    I am on my way to Heathrow. I just left a work do, with wine. I’ll arrive and go into the lounge, where there will be free drinks. Then the plane, where they’ll serve free drinks. All being well I arrive in Singapore tomorrow at 6pm just in time for the “gala event” at our conference with free drinks.

    Do I:

    A. Treat this as some 24 hour stag-like bender and just drink and eat my way through it,
    B. Abstain in the lounge and go straight to sleep on the plane?

    Decisions decisions

    FFS. Life is short. This sounds fun

    Drink

    Haven’t the last 3 years taught us that if nothing else? Carpe diem
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 888
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Why do politicians keep being asked about penises?

    Can't we mature the debate a bit?

    Because politicians keep saying that women have them.
    They keep being ASKED if they do, Ed Davey didn't bring it up.

    How would you field this question? How would you feel if you were a trans person who really felt they were a woman with the way they are talked about? Why can't we have a more mature conversation and look at this with some kindness and sympathy.
    Davey (and Starmer) knows he’s going to be asked the question, and has known for years that he’ll be asked the question.

    Yet he still doesn’t have anything close to a coherent answer on the subject.

    If and when he has a straight answer, the line of questioning would stop.
    I’ve some sympathy for them. It’s a hideously divisive and thorny topic. But then it’s their own mad woke identity politics that have led them here so that sympathy is limited
    The Gender Recognition Act of 2004 (and many countries have similar) provides a legal route for someone to change their gender without being compelled to have surgery. No country that has introduced this social reform has ever reversed it and no mainstream political party in the UK (inc the Conservatives) is proposing to repeal it here. So what I conclude is that these 'gotcha' questions about women and penises etc seek to provoke and confuse rather than enlighten.
    I would be tempted to treat the question with the seriousness that it deserves, though I'm not quick on my feet.

    Perhaps a 'If you don't know by now, it's too late to tell you,' or maybe 'I never presume to ask them.'? Teaching acquaintances of mine are very fond of the 'What's in your pants song' to teach younger kids about personal space and boundaries so perhaps singing a rendition of that would get the point across to journalists asking this bad-faith question.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Why do politicians keep being asked about penises?

    Can't we mature the debate a bit?

    Because politicians keep saying that women have them.
    They keep being ASKED if they do, Ed Davey didn't bring it up.

    How would you field this question? How would you feel if you were a trans person who really felt they were a woman with the way they are talked about? Why can't we have a more mature conversation and look at this with some kindness and sympathy.
    Davey (and Starmer) knows he’s going to be asked the question, and has known for years that he’ll be asked the question.

    Yet he still doesn’t have anything close to a coherent answer on the subject.

    If and when he has a straight answer, the line of questioning would stop.
    I’ve some sympathy for them. It’s a hideously divisive and thorny topic. But then it’s their own mad woke identity politics that have led them here so that sympathy is limited
    The Gender Recognition Act of 2004 (and many countries have similar) provides a legal route for someone to change their gender without being compelled to have surgery. No country that has introduced this social reform has ever reversed it and no mainstream political party in the UK (inc the Conservatives) is proposing to repeal it here. So what I conclude is that these 'gotcha' questions about women and penises etc seek to provoke and confuse rather than enlighten.
    My point was more political. The question will now always be asked - you can’t wish it away - and a clever politician needs a ready answer that doesn’t sound insane to 70% of voters

    I’d go with “no, a woman can’t have a penis. That’s a trans woman”. But I thank allah I am not a politician in this case
    I’d go on the offensive. “You think this is such a fucking gotcha don’t you. Are you actually interested in the answer or are you just being oh so edgy? Ask me sensible questions about policy on trans rights and I’ll happily answer, but don’t give me all this shit. And don’t go protesting that you’re just voicing “real concerns”, you’re not. You’re trying for a gotcha”.

    Or something along those lines. It’s the embarrassed faffing around the topic that looks so silly.
    But that sounds even crazier and more evasive. The fact is: you need an answer
  • FlannerFlanner Posts: 437
    eek said:

    From The Times, I think this mean the report may well be delayed.

    The privileges committee, which is investigating claims that Johnson misled parliament over lockdown-breaking parties, has been informed.

    So here’s a simple question.

    We’re Bozo to resign (for the greater good, to avoid being a distraction) when the inevitable x0 days suspension is given, how likely is he to be given a winnable seat in Oxfordshire come the next election?
    The real question is: is there a winnable seat for ANY Tory in Oxfordshire?

    The Tories are no longer the majority party in any of the five Districts the county is made up of or in the County. This will all morph into seven seats by 2024 - but the crude numbers are that, on the basis of the latest local council elections, there's a real likelihood the Tories will fail to get the new seat and lose ALL the four seats they currently hold. Partly because of real demographic change sine the county was dominated by retired toffoes and forelock-tugging agriculturals: partly because Tory policies in general and Johnson in particular have destroyed any respect middle of the road Oxonian Tories have for Conservatism.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Question:

    I am on my way to Heathrow. I just left a work do, with wine. I’ll arrive and go into the lounge, where there will be free drinks. Then the plane, where they’ll serve free drinks. All being well I arrive in Singapore tomorrow at 6pm just in time for the “gala event” at our conference with free drinks.

    Do I:

    A. Treat this as some 24 hour stag-like bender and just drink and eat my way through it,
    B. Abstain in the lounge and go straight to sleep on the plane?

    Decisions decisions

    FFS. Life is short. This sounds fun

    Drink

    Haven’t the last 3 years taught us that if nothing else? Carpe diem
    The last three years taught you to drink?

    I was under the distinct impression it had happened earlier.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Question:

    I am on my way to Heathrow. I just left a work do, with wine. I’ll arrive and go into the lounge, where there will be free drinks. Then the plane, where they’ll serve free drinks. All being well I arrive in Singapore tomorrow at 6pm just in time for the “gala event” at our conference with free drinks.

    Do I:

    A. Treat this as some 24 hour stag-like bender and just drink and eat my way through it,
    B. Abstain in the lounge and go straight to sleep on the plane?

    Decisions decisions

    FFS. Life is short. This sounds fun

    Drink

    Haven’t the last 3 years taught us that if nothing else? Carpe diem
    Carpe Beer.

    Seize the Pint.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Why do politicians keep being asked about penises?

    Can't we mature the debate a bit?

    Because politicians keep saying that women have them.
    They keep being ASKED if they do, Ed Davey didn't bring it up.

    How would you field this question? How would you feel if you were a trans person who really felt they were a woman with the way they are talked about? Why can't we have a more mature conversation and look at this with some kindness and sympathy.
    Davey (and Starmer) knows he’s going to be asked the question, and has known for years that he’ll be asked the question.

    Yet he still doesn’t have anything close to a coherent answer on the subject.

    If and when he has a straight answer, the line of questioning would stop.
    I’ve some sympathy for them. It’s a hideously divisive and thorny topic. But then it’s their own mad woke identity politics that have led them here so that sympathy is limited
    It's not really, though, is it?

    Women don't have penises.
    So you repeal the right (per the GRA) to change legal gender or amend it to make it conditional on surgery?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495

    Sandpit said:

    Why do politicians keep being asked about penises?

    Can't we mature the debate a bit?

    Because politicians keep saying that women have them.
    They keep being ASKED if they do, Ed Davey didn't bring it up.

    How would you field this question? How would you feel if you were a trans person who really felt they were a woman with the way they are talked about? Why can't we have a more mature conversation and look at this with some kindness and sympathy.
    You just tell the truth
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    Flanner said:

    eek said:

    From The Times, I think this mean the report may well be delayed.

    The privileges committee, which is investigating claims that Johnson misled parliament over lockdown-breaking parties, has been informed.

    So here’s a simple question.

    We’re Bozo to resign (for the greater good, to avoid being a distraction) when the inevitable x0 days suspension is given, how likely is he to be given a winnable seat in Oxfordshire come the next election?
    The real question is: is there a winnable seat for ANY Tory in Oxfordshire?

    The Tories are no longer the majority party in any of the five Districts the county is made up of or in the County. This will all morph into seven seats by 2024 - but the crude numbers are that, on the basis of the latest local council elections, there's a real likelihood the Tories will fail to get the new seat and lose ALL the four seats they currently hold. Partly because of real demographic change sine the county was dominated by retired toffoes and forelock-tugging agriculturals: partly because Tory policies in general and Johnson in particular have destroyed any respect middle of the road Oxonian Tories have for Conservatism.

    People vote in their perceived self-interest.

    So, as soon as Labour/LD stop doing that they will come back, and the Conservatives will recalibrate accordingly.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Why do politicians keep being asked about penises?

    Can't we mature the debate a bit?

    Because politicians keep saying that women have them.
    They keep being ASKED if they do, Ed Davey didn't bring it up.

    How would you field this question? How would you feel if you were a trans person who really felt they were a woman with the way they are talked about? Why can't we have a more mature conversation and look at this with some kindness and sympathy.
    Davey (and Starmer) knows he’s going to be asked the question, and has known for years that he’ll be asked the question.

    Yet he still doesn’t have anything close to a coherent answer on the subject.

    If and when he has a straight answer, the line of questioning would stop.
    I’ve some sympathy for them. It’s a hideously divisive and thorny topic. But then it’s their own mad woke identity politics that have led them here so that sympathy is limited
    The Gender Recognition Act of 2004 (and many countries have similar) provides a legal route for someone to change their gender without being compelled to have surgery. No country that has introduced this social reform has ever reversed it and no mainstream political party in the UK (inc the Conservatives) is proposing to repeal it here. So what I conclude is that these 'gotcha' questions about women and penises etc seek to provoke and confuse rather than enlighten.
    My point was more political. The question will now always be asked - you can’t wish it away - and a clever politician needs a ready answer that doesn’t sound insane to 70% of voters

    I’d go with “no, a woman can’t have a penis. That’s a trans woman”. But I thank allah I am not a politician in this case
    I’d go on the offensive. “You think this is such a fucking gotcha don’t you. Are you actually interested in the answer or are you just being oh so edgy? Ask me sensible questions about policy on trans rights and I’ll happily answer, but don’t give me all this shit. And don’t go protesting that you’re just voicing “real concerns”, you’re not. You’re trying for a gotcha”.

    Or something along those lines. It’s the embarrassed faffing around the topic that looks so silly.
    Or just tell the truth
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Question:

    I am on my way to Heathrow. I just left a work do, with wine. I’ll arrive and go into the lounge, where there will be free drinks. Then the plane, where they’ll serve free drinks. All being well I arrive in Singapore tomorrow at 6pm just in time for the “gala event” at our conference with free drinks.

    Do I:

    A. Treat this as some 24 hour stag-like bender and just drink and eat my way through it,
    B. Abstain in the lounge and go straight to sleep on the plane?

    Decisions decisions

    FFS. Life is short. This sounds fun

    Drink

    Haven’t the last 3 years taught us that if nothing else? Carpe diem
    The last three years taught you to drink?

    I was under the distinct impression it had happened earlier.
    Er, it reinforced my lifelong beliefs?

    In all seriousness I did feel quite validated by covid even if it sent me crazy. Life is bloody perfunctory. Nothing really matters. Martin Amis will probably be forgotten in 20 years

    Drink. Tap the barrel of pleasure and have your fill while you can (and try and bang out a couple of kids on the way but dont stress too much on that)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Cherwell District Council has just become a minority Conservative administration after all manner of unseemly shenanigans on the part of the local Labour party, who refused to form a coalition with the LibDem/Green group unless the LibDems jettisoned the Greens.

    I suspect this will turn out to be a self-inflicted wound on Labour's part, not least in the next GE where they need LibDem tactical votes in the Banbury constituency.

    A very interesting piece of local politics, really useful.

    There’s always money to be made at the GE, by identifying the seats which don’t follow the national trend.

    Last election:
    C 54
    L 28
    LD 14
    G 4
    Maj: 16,000
    MP: Victoria Prentiss

    A dead cert Con hold in a sea of seats that become marginal, or on a larger overall swing, a three-way marginal when the incumbent has a chance that she doesn’t have otherwise?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,521
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Cummings v Milne is an interesting parallel debate
    Not really. Cummings is super intelligent and wins elections and referendums. I’ve seen no evidence for Milne being even smart and he certainly never won any elections

    Milne is a classic posho public school Marxist. The Winchester version of bouji grammar school Corbyn
    And a lot of people who lost a referendum think that Cummings is super evil, while not having much at all to say about the man who wrote Corbyn's Salisbury response
    There you go again.

    Both Seumas Milne and Dom Cummings are absolute shits of the highest order.

    The taxpayers have paid out substantial money because of the latter's bullying.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/13/special-adviser-sacked-by-dominic-cummings-to-receive-payoff
    Yes but Milne is a Marxist traitor. This stuff isn’t hard

    Milne supports Islamists and cheered on 9/11. He got jihadists in to write for the guardian. He thinks Stalin is cool

    Cummings might be an arrogant dick and even a bully but if you can’t see the crucial political difference between the two of them then there’s no hope for you
    There's a genuinely important question here.

    How fash does the far right have to get before Marxism is preferable? Not objectively good, but the lesser of two evils.

    Hitler obviously. ("If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.")

    Franco? Probably, though it needs a pause for thought.

    The fringier bits of US National Conservatism?

    None of which stops Corbyn being a fool at best and probably a lot worse than that.
    I’ll bite. Franco was preferable to the Stalinist communism which was, eventually, the only apparent alternative during the Spanish civil war. As Orwell discovered
    I would agree.

    Stalin was preferable to Hitler, or Ante Pavelic, or Ferenc Salazy.

    I always enjoyed A Very British Coup, because in Harry Perkins, you actually have a PM who is a traitor (even if Chris Mullin does not see him as such). He’s not a Kinnock, or Foot, or Papandreou, but a man who is trying to turn the UK into a satellite of the USSR.

    I think a military coup would be justified against such a leader.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Question:

    I am on my way to Heathrow. I just left a work do, with wine. I’ll arrive and go into the lounge, where there will be free drinks. Then the plane, where they’ll serve free drinks. All being well I arrive in Singapore tomorrow at 6pm just in time for the “gala event” at our conference with free drinks.

    Do I:

    A. Treat this as some 24 hour stag-like bender and just drink and eat my way through it,
    B. Abstain in the lounge and go straight to sleep on the plane?

    Decisions decisions

    FFS. Life is short. This sounds fun

    Drink

    Haven’t the last 3 years taught us that if nothing else? Carpe diem
    The last three years taught you to drink?

    I was under the distinct impression it had happened earlier.
    Fill your boots
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,943
    TimS said:

    Question:

    I am on my way to Heathrow. I just left a work do, with wine. I’ll arrive and go into the lounge, where there will be free drinks. Then the plane, where they’ll serve free drinks. All being well I arrive in Singapore tomorrow at 6pm just in time for the “gala event” at our conference with free drinks.

    Do I:

    A. Treat this as some 24 hour stag-like bender and just drink and eat my way through it,
    B. Abstain in the lounge and go straight to sleep on the plane?

    Decisions decisions

    Don't wake up like Leonardo Dicaprio in Wolf of Wall Street on his flight to Zurich...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    Feign a hearing issue: "Yes, of course women can have happiness and I believe it's important to protect women's rights."
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,943
    Flanner said:

    eek said:

    From The Times, I think this mean the report may well be delayed.

    The privileges committee, which is investigating claims that Johnson misled parliament over lockdown-breaking parties, has been informed.

    So here’s a simple question.

    We’re Bozo to resign (for the greater good, to avoid being a distraction) when the inevitable x0 days suspension is given, how likely is he to be given a winnable seat in Oxfordshire come the next election?
    The real question is: is there a winnable seat for ANY Tory in Oxfordshire?

    The Tories are no longer the majority party in any of the five Districts the county is made up of or in the County. This will all morph into seven seats by 2024 - but the crude numbers are that, on the basis of the latest local council elections, there's a real likelihood the Tories will fail to get the new seat and lose ALL the four seats they currently hold. Partly because of real demographic change sine the county was dominated by retired toffoes and forelock-tugging agriculturals: partly because Tory policies in general and Johnson in particular have destroyed any respect middle of the road Oxonian Tories have for Conservatism.

    There appears to be considerable disquiet amongst the remaining Tories with brains that they may have shit the blue wall bed as badly as Labour did the red wall pre-2019...
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240

    Flanner said:

    eek said:

    From The Times, I think this mean the report may well be delayed.

    The privileges committee, which is investigating claims that Johnson misled parliament over lockdown-breaking parties, has been informed.

    So here’s a simple question.

    We’re Bozo to resign (for the greater good, to avoid being a distraction) when the inevitable x0 days suspension is given, how likely is he to be given a winnable seat in Oxfordshire come the next election?
    The real question is: is there a winnable seat for ANY Tory in Oxfordshire?

    The Tories are no longer the majority party in any of the five Districts the county is made up of or in the County. This will all morph into seven seats by 2024 - but the crude numbers are that, on the basis of the latest local council elections, there's a real likelihood the Tories will fail to get the new seat and lose ALL the four seats they currently hold. Partly because of real demographic change sine the county was dominated by retired toffoes and forelock-tugging agriculturals: partly because Tory policies in general and Johnson in particular have destroyed any respect middle of the road Oxonian Tories have for Conservatism.

    People vote in their perceived self-interest.

    So, as soon as Labour/LD stop doing that they will come back, and the Conservatives will recalibrate accordingly.
    Flanner is right, though, the demographics have shifted against the Conservatives. Places like London and Oxford are lost to the Tories for the foreseeable future and no one really disputes that. It's not impossible that the Oxfordshire districts, which are increasingly dormitories for London and Oxford, could be the same.

    I think the Tories will hold Banbury. Partly because Victoria Prentis is the only Oxfordshire Conservative MP who isn't a blithering idiot, and partly because Labour in Banbury have just pointed a very large gun painted with the words "tactical voting" at their feet and blown both of them clean off.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,521
    Flanner said:

    eek said:

    From The Times, I think this mean the report may well be delayed.

    The privileges committee, which is investigating claims that Johnson misled parliament over lockdown-breaking parties, has been informed.

    So here’s a simple question.

    We’re Bozo to resign (for the greater good, to avoid being a distraction) when the inevitable x0 days suspension is given, how likely is he to be given a winnable seat in Oxfordshire come the next election?
    The real question is: is there a winnable seat for ANY Tory in Oxfordshire?

    The Tories are no longer the majority party in any of the five Districts the county is made up of or in the County. This will all morph into seven seats by 2024 - but the crude numbers are that, on the basis of the latest local council elections, there's a real likelihood the Tories will fail to get the new seat and lose ALL the four seats they currently hold. Partly because of real demographic change sine the county was dominated by retired toffoes and forelock-tugging agriculturals: partly because Tory policies in general and Johnson in particular have destroyed any respect middle of the road Oxonian Tories have for Conservatism.

    I doubt if there will be much change in Oxfordshire at the next GE.

    The Conservatives, after all, did not win the Hackney and Islington constituencies in 1970, despite storming to victory in the local elections of 1967/68.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Cummings v Milne is an interesting parallel debate
    Not really. Cummings is super intelligent and wins elections and referendums. I’ve seen no evidence for Milne being even smart and he certainly never won any elections

    Milne is a classic posho public school Marxist. The Winchester version of bouji grammar school Corbyn
    And a lot of people who lost a referendum think that Cummings is super evil, while not having much at all to say about the man who wrote Corbyn's Salisbury response
    There you go again.

    Both Seumas Milne and Dom Cummings are absolute shits of the highest order.

    The taxpayers have paid out substantial money because of the latter's bullying.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/13/special-adviser-sacked-by-dominic-cummings-to-receive-payoff
    Yes but Milne is a Marxist traitor. This stuff isn’t hard

    Milne supports Islamists and cheered on 9/11. He got jihadists in to write for the guardian. He thinks Stalin is cool

    Cummings might be an arrogant dick and even a bully but if you can’t see the crucial political difference between the two of them then there’s no hope for you
    There's a genuinely important question here.

    How fash does the far right have to get before Marxism is preferable? Not objectively good, but the lesser of two evils.

    Hitler obviously. ("If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.")

    Franco? Probably, though it needs a pause for thought.

    The fringier bits of US National Conservatism?

    None of which stops Corbyn being a fool at best and probably a lot worse than that.
    I’ll bite. Franco was preferable to the Stalinist communism which was, eventually, the only apparent alternative during the Spanish civil war. As Orwell discovered
    I would agree.

    Stalin was preferable to Hitler, or Ante Pavelic, or Ferenc Salazy.

    I always enjoyed A Very British Coup, because in Harry Perkins, you actually have a PM who is a traitor (even if Chris Mullin does not see him as such). He’s not a Kinnock, or Foot, or Papandreou, but a man who is trying to turn the UK into a satellite of the USSR.

    I think a military coup would be justified against such a leader.

    Pol Pot was, I believe, the worst of all. The most evil and the most insane. He would have happily killed the majority of humanity - 90% - if it accorded with his ultra-Maoism. And he would have done it with intense and deliberate cruelty to instil terror, which he enjoyed

    Hitler next. Then Stalin and Mao
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807
    Leon said:

    I saw the face of Akhenaten’s mother today

    I've told you to stop watching Joe Biden campaign videos.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,943

    Feign a hearing issue: "Yes, of course women can have happiness and I believe it's important to protect women's rights."

    As always, Gene Wilder did it best https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EzBeK9Pmss
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    TimS said:

    Question:

    I am on my way to Heathrow. I just left a work do, with wine. I’ll arrive and go into the lounge, where there will be free drinks. Then the plane, where they’ll serve free drinks. All being well I arrive in Singapore tomorrow at 6pm just in time for the “gala event” at our conference with free drinks.

    Do I:

    A. Treat this as some 24 hour stag-like bender and just drink and eat my way through it,
    B. Abstain in the lounge and go straight to sleep on the plane?

    Decisions decisions

    If you woke up this morning on UK time zone, you’ll be screwed when you arrive in Singapore no matter what you do.

    So embrace it, drink until you pass out on the plane, wake up when you wake up and then get on the caffeine. Right now, it’s nearly 3am in Singapore.

    Wonderful place by the way, one of my favourite cities on Earth. Get yourself a Sling in Raffles Bar.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,980
    edited May 2023
    Leon said:

    x

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Cummings v Milne is an interesting parallel debate
    Not really. Cummings is super intelligent and wins elections and referendums. I’ve seen no evidence for Milne being even smart and he certainly never won any elections

    Milne is a classic posho public school Marxist. The Winchester version of bouji grammar school Corbyn
    And a lot of people who lost a referendum think that Cummings is super evil, while not having much at all to say about the man who wrote Corbyn's Salisbury response
    There you go again.

    Both Seumas Milne and Dom Cummings are absolute shits of the highest order.

    The taxpayers have paid out substantial money because of the latter's bullying.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/13/special-adviser-sacked-by-dominic-cummings-to-receive-payoff
    Yes but Milne is a Marxist traitor. This stuff isn’t hard

    Milne supports Islamists and cheered on 9/11. He got jihadists in to write for the guardian. He thinks Stalin is cool

    Cummings might be an arrogant dick and even a bully but if you can’t see the crucial political difference between the two of them then there’s no hope for you
    It seems to be a more interesting parallel than you gave it credit for
    Btw I’ve been meaning to ask. Did you hear any Breton spoken on your recent hols?

    I’m reading a book about old pagan Europe and it’s talking about Celtic languages and I’ve realised I’ve never heard Breton spoken in real life

    I’ve heard every other extant Celtic tongue. Welsh, Irish, Gallic - but not Breton

    Wiki claims a lot of speakers but I wonder
    I'm sure I did hear it in a few of the bar/tabac/betting shops I stopped in for refreshments

    One in particular, in Guingamp where I had a few beers watching the end of (I think) Arsenal beating Newcastle. I was stood at the bar and didn't understand or recognise anything that more than half of the locals were speaking. I usually do somewhat better than that with French

    I became more popular there with a few "yecʼhed mat" shouts
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,442
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Why do politicians keep being asked about penises?

    Can't we mature the debate a bit?

    Because politicians keep saying that women have them.
    They keep being ASKED if they do, Ed Davey didn't bring it up.

    How would you field this question? How would you feel if you were a trans person who really felt they were a woman with the way they are talked about? Why can't we have a more mature conversation and look at this with some kindness and sympathy.
    Davey (and Starmer) knows he’s going to be asked the question, and has known for years that he’ll be asked the question.

    Yet he still doesn’t have anything close to a coherent answer on the subject.

    If and when he has a straight answer, the line of questioning would stop.
    I’ve some sympathy for them. It’s a hideously divisive and thorny topic. But then it’s their own mad woke identity politics that have led them here so that sympathy is limited
    The Gender Recognition Act of 2004 (and many countries have similar) provides a legal route for someone to change their gender without being compelled to have surgery. No country that has introduced this social reform has ever reversed it and no mainstream political party in the UK (inc the Conservatives) is proposing to repeal it here. So what I conclude is that these 'gotcha' questions about women and penises etc seek to provoke and confuse rather than enlighten.
    My point was more political. The question will now always be asked - you can’t wish it away - and a clever politician needs a ready answer that doesn’t sound insane to 70% of voters

    I’d go with “no, a woman can’t have a penis. That’s a trans woman”. But I thank allah I am not a politician in this case
    I’d go on the offensive. “You think this is such a fucking gotcha don’t you. Are you actually interested in the answer or are you just being oh so edgy? Ask me sensible questions about policy on trans rights and I’ll happily answer, but don’t give me all this shit. And don’t go protesting that you’re just voicing “real concerns”, you’re not. You’re trying for a gotcha”.

    Or something along those lines. It’s the embarrassed faffing around the topic that looks so silly.
    But that sounds even crazier and more evasive. The fact is: you need an answer
    For most people, it's obvious whether they're a man or a woman. For a very few people, it's complicated and we have to trust the medics on what to do. Shouting YES or NO at trans people doesn't make them go away.

    That's not going to fit in a headline. But respecting people and trying to be kind is normally a good start.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,943
    Can a biological woman have a penis? No. Can a trans woman have a penis? Yes.

    Can we move on now please?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Yet another article - a feature on Casey DeSantis, wife of Gov. Ron and Sunshine State power couple insiders call "the Santi"

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/05/19/casey-ron-desantis-wife-profile-00097456

    Two thoughts, major and minor

    > Major - yet more evidence of Fear of RDS by Trump and his entourage, as in this excerpt.

    “Have you ever noticed,” Roger Stone, the notorious political mischief-maker who is both a DeSantis antagonist and a many-decades-long Trump loyalist, remarked in a Telegram post last fall, “how much Ron DeSantis’ wife Casey is like Lady Macbeth?” — an agent, in other words, of her husband’s undoing.

    Stone’s hyperbolic charge is but a piece of a broader effort on the part of Trump forces to kill in the crib the candidacy they consider their greatest threat.

    > Minor - love "the DeSanti" which harkens back (at least to me) to the McManus political clan in New York City, famed for their clout in mid-20th century Tammany Hall (that is, as the Tiger was losing its teeth, stripes and fur) and known in Gotham politico-journo circles as "the McMani".

    Which was Hibernian wit back in their day, but also accessible to anyone, esp. Catholics (active, lapsed, recovering) who remembers a smidgen of old Church Latin. Who are reasonably thick on the ground in most of Florida.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Why do politicians keep being asked about penises?

    Can't we mature the debate a bit?

    Because politicians keep saying that women have them.
    They keep being ASKED if they do, Ed Davey didn't bring it up.

    How would you field this question? How would you feel if you were a trans person who really felt they were a woman with the way they are talked about? Why can't we have a more mature conversation and look at this with some kindness and sympathy.
    Davey (and Starmer) knows he’s going to be asked the question, and has known for years that he’ll be asked the question.

    Yet he still doesn’t have anything close to a coherent answer on the subject.

    If and when he has a straight answer, the line of questioning would stop.
    I’ve some sympathy for them. It’s a hideously divisive and thorny topic. But then it’s their own mad woke identity politics that have led them here so that sympathy is limited
    The Gender Recognition Act of 2004 (and many countries have similar) provides a legal route for someone to change their gender without being compelled to have surgery. No country that has introduced this social reform has ever reversed it and no mainstream political party in the UK (inc the Conservatives) is proposing to repeal it here. So what I conclude is that these 'gotcha' questions about women and penises etc seek to provoke and confuse rather than enlighten.
    My point was more political. The question will now always be asked - you can’t wish it away - and a clever politician needs a ready answer that doesn’t sound insane to 70% of voters

    I’d go with “no, a woman can’t have a penis. That’s a trans woman”. But I thank allah I am not a politician in this case
    I’d go on the offensive. “You think this is such a fucking gotcha don’t you. Are you actually interested in the answer or are you just being oh so edgy? Ask me sensible questions about policy on trans rights and I’ll happily answer, but don’t give me all this shit. And don’t go protesting that you’re just voicing “real concerns”, you’re not. You’re trying for a gotcha”.

    Or something along those lines. It’s the embarrassed faffing around the topic that looks so silly.
    But that sounds even crazier and more evasive. The fact is: you need an answer
    For most people, it's obvious whether they're a man or a woman. For a very few people, it's complicated and we have to trust the medics on what to do. Shouting YES or NO at trans people doesn't make them go away.

    That's not going to fit in a headline. But respecting people and trying to be kind is normally a good start.
    JK Rowling agrees, that being kind would be a good start.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    x

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:



    Farooq said:

    "But Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Boris was so obviously unacceptable!"
    "Yes, but Corbyn was so obviously unacceptable!"

    [continues until the heat death of the universe]

    I get that lefties and Remainers hate Boris but, really, Corbyn is in a different and higher league of unacceptability

    Corbyn is an unashamed traitor. An IRA supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti semitic commie traitor

    Boris is a charismatic reprobate and a selfish libertine. Boris has personal flaws. Corbyn’s flaws are way more dangerous and ideological even if he is probably the “nicer” gent in some ways
    Cummings v Milne is an interesting parallel debate
    Not really. Cummings is super intelligent and wins elections and referendums. I’ve seen no evidence for Milne being even smart and he certainly never won any elections

    Milne is a classic posho public school Marxist. The Winchester version of bouji grammar school Corbyn
    And a lot of people who lost a referendum think that Cummings is super evil, while not having much at all to say about the man who wrote Corbyn's Salisbury response
    There you go again.

    Both Seumas Milne and Dom Cummings are absolute shits of the highest order.

    The taxpayers have paid out substantial money because of the latter's bullying.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/13/special-adviser-sacked-by-dominic-cummings-to-receive-payoff
    Yes but Milne is a Marxist traitor. This stuff isn’t hard

    Milne supports Islamists and cheered on 9/11. He got jihadists in to write for the guardian. He thinks Stalin is cool

    Cummings might be an arrogant dick and even a bully but if you can’t see the crucial political difference between the two of them then there’s no hope for you
    It seems to be a more interesting parallel than you gave it credit for
    Btw I’ve been meaning to ask. Did you hear any Breton spoken on your recent hols?

    I’m reading a book about old pagan Europe and it’s talking about Celtic languages and I’ve realised I’ve never heard Breton spoken in real life

    I’ve heard every other extant Celtic tongue. Welsh, Irish, Gallic - but not Breton

    Wiki claims a lot of speakers but I wonder
    I'm sure I did hear it in a few of the bar/tabac/betting shops I stopped in for refreshments

    One in particular, in Guingamp where I had a few beers watching the end of (I think) Arsenal beating Newcastle. I was stood at the bar and didn't understand or recognise anything that more than half of the locals were speaking. I usually do somewhat better than that with French

    I became more popular there with a few "yecʼhed mat" shouts
    Good to hear. Wiki claims 200,000 speakers which is a LOT - but down from 1m 50 years ago

    I love hearing rare languages. I heard Siwi in Siwa. Just 20,000 speakers in the world. Marvellous

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siwi_language
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,778
    edited May 2023

    I live but a mile away from Ely so surprised to see it all over the news today.

    What I find odd is the issue of the police chase. Why would someone be chased by a police van? Some kind of sadistic game? If you have the polic following you, why wouldn't you stop. It's ridiculous to blame them for causing a crash. But then why deny it if you are the police?

    Someone being chased by police, because cops think they're breaking the law (the chased, not the cops) MAY stop. But often they will not, because they are trying to evade apprehension and/or arrest.

    With teenagers being perhaps even more likely to flee than adults.

    Back in my own misspent youth, guys would drive around late at night thus attracting attention of local cops. Who in our very small town, were just as bored as a rule as the kids.

    One favorite way of evading the long arm of the law, was to head up a local hill with the fuzz in pursuit, then duck into a handy driveway and kill the lights. Then watch Barney Fife whiz by obvious to what had happened. Cops never did seem to catch on.

    As for police statement re: this tragic incident in Wales, seems to me that it is VERY carefully worded, thus NOT exactly a full denial.
    The part about no police vehicles being on Snowden Road at the time of the crash probably doesn't mean very much, considering that if the boys followed the most direct route from Frank Road (where the CCTV footage came from) the police van wouldn't have been able to follow them on to Snowden Road because it would have been prevented by a barrier just before the junction.
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