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Starmer extends his approval lead over Sunak – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,315
    Farooq said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    ping said:

    Doesn’t look good for South Wales Police;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-wales-65681556

    That's a horror show :( . Hoping for calm, but everyone is going to have to work twice as hard to achieve that.
    Call me crazy, but that looks like green and yellow livery. Isn't it some kind of ambulance? I thought police used blue?
    Not in South Wales. See South Wales police livery: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=south+wales+police+heddlu+livery
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 11,588
    geoffw said:

    Eabhal said:

    eek said:

    Sam Coates Sky

    @SamCoatesSky
    Sunak government go further on voter ID for elections

    Written statement just published unveiling plans to mandate ID for postal and proxy votes, and to make people apply for postal votes every three years.

    https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-statements/detail/2023-05-23/hcws791

    Sensible
    What's the motivation for this? Not really in Tory self-interest.
    Postal votes are open to abuse. See the recent BBC article.
    But in person voting isn't. Tighten up postal voting and revert to ID free in person voting. There you go, job done!
    Voting in person on the day gives one a satisfying feeling of doing one's civic duty. I switched from postal to normal voting because postal voting felt somehow sneaky and private.
    Couldn't agree more. The stubby pencil on string, the amateur but effective privacy of the booth, the earnest civic people finding you on a list, the schoolroom and the church hall, the classless nature of the queue, the dogs on Twitter. These are the differences between us and North Korea. It's a sort of poetry.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,865
    edited May 2023
    Fact Sheet On German Military Aid To #Ukraine 🇩🇪🇺🇦

    Newly PLEDGED equipment:

    - 15 Gepard SPAAGs
    - 12 IRIS-T SLS SAM Launchers
    - 11 Oshkosh M1070 Tank Transporters
    - 20.000 155mm Artillery Rounds
    - 100 MG5 GP Machine Guns
    - 100 GMG Grenade Launchers

    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1661017696971157504

    Some serious air defence kit there.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 46,406
    eek said:

    Eabhal said:

    eek said:

    Sam Coates Sky

    @SamCoatesSky
    Sunak government go further on voter ID for elections

    Written statement just published unveiling plans to mandate ID for postal and proxy votes, and to make people apply for postal votes every three years.

    https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-statements/detail/2023-05-23/hcws791

    Sensible
    What's the motivation for this? Not really in Tory self-interest.
    Postal votes are open to abuse. See the recent BBC article.
    +1 most of the known fraud cases have been with postal votes. Whether it changes anything beyond some paperwork every 3 years we will have to wait and see.
    Have personal experience of a vote being stolen and the police having a studied indifference to that happening - close to a refusal to log a crime.

  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,109
    algarkirk said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sorry, from PT for those asking me how the Big Brexit Apology will work. I've given this some thought and I'd suggest as follows:

    By my calculations because of differential death rates the number of people who voted Leave and Remain in the 2016 referendum is identical at 15,674,232 apiece. Matched up by algorithm this generates 7,837,116 pairs, one Remainer and one Leaver, like Tinder except it’s done at random not on looks or compatibility. The results are mailed out (each Remainer told who ‘their’ Leaver is and vice versa) and contact details are included so a meet-up for each duo can be arranged. 4 weeks are allowed for this, otherwise there are punishments. Everyone complies (not fancying any of the punishments) and the stage is set for the business end of the exercise.

    Let’s assume I’m matched with a Leaver from Dudley called Trevor. We exchange texts and decide that he’ll come to Hampstead because I don’t want to go to Dudley. I tell him Wednesday 10.30 sharp at the Coffee Cup.

    Trevor arrives (thankfully not as hirsute as his picture) and joins me at my table. I put down my Guardian and give him my fullest. Straight off he does the necessary. “I’m truly sorry,” he says. That’s all that’s required. There’s no need to make a meal of it. The point of this is to heal not foster further ill-feeling. I receive his brief but heartfelt offering in similar generous spirit. “It’s ok, Trevor,” I say, “to be human is to err.” He looks relieved. It’s as if a huge weight has been lifted from him. I smile and ask what sort of bespoke decaf latte he wants.

    The two of us then pass a pleasant half hour getting to know each other. No politics of course. It could be he likes Boris Johnson (being from Dudley) and we don’t want to risk something like that spoiling the vibe between us. The objective is to part on friendly terms even though our paths are unlikely to cross again. Which is what we do. Remainer Me and Leaver Trevor part on the best of terms. The apology has cleared the decks for this to happen. I feel better, he feels better. We can MOVE ON. And as it is for us so it is for the entire country, assuming the other 7,837,115 meets go equally well – which they surely will.

    Alternatively, in a few years you will have a
    Brexiphany - a moment of piercing spiritual insight when you and all the other Remoaner idiots realise you were wrong and Brexit was right

    You will come to us Brexiteers to be shrived, and we shall generously forgive you, insisting merely that your left buttock is modestly tattooed with the smiling face of Nigel Farage, symbolising your penance

    How many Brexiteers will be alive in a few years' time though?

    Not many who will admit to it, going on current trends.

    Even if you allow for the possibility that Brexit has objectively been a good thing, the steadily growing will of the people is to regard it as a mistake. Doesn't Matter- the public are right, even when they're wrong. And the people who persuaded the public to do this in the first place are pretty much all diminished in the public's eyes.

    To take a popular analogy, the country is not only back on the pill, but it's got a headache.
    It's odd but the dislike of Brexit does not seem to translate into a desire to rejoin. I suspect that the EU is not seen by most voters as a beacon to lead the country back to the future. I think that right now the overwhelming political view of most people is one giant "meh". I was entertaining a large group of 25 friends for a memorial celebration of my former partner's life here this weekend - mostly aged late 40-50 and that seemed very much their general attitude. They're a fairly m/c group based in London surroundings. What struck me most was just their general lack of interest. But they were huge fun to be with for this almost 70 year old.


    Dislike of Brexit coupled with no desire for Rejoin leads inevitably to the one very obvious conclusion: There was and is no real, deep thought out desire to settle for either Remain or Brexit. The only majority there can be is for a position between those two poles - the one position which was not on the exam paper in 2016.

    The reason for this is evident. Once the relevant thinking has been done, there is a majority in favour of a European FTA to a maximal degree - including most elements of the SM. But there isn't and never will be agreement with political, fiscal, monetary and economic integration and union, or for FOM.

    Of the thinkable futures a reformed EU to allow for this is the best. Second best is a unique UK Europe deal (which many Brexit supporters legitimately expected); third best is EFTA/EEA; fourth best is Switzerland.

    If Sir K happens to be an as yet undiscerned political genius of premier magnitude we shall get to one of these destinations. We need Blair, Thatcher, Attlee, Major, Obama and Clinton all rolled into one, and only the good bits.

    This is a very good summary, predictably already dismissed the terminally blinkered.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,315

    what this? it’s just an article from the year 2000 about suella fernandes, president of the cambridge university conservative association, who was accused of vote rigging and responded with a reassuring “you can’t prove anything”



    https://twitter.com/alexandrakuri/status/1660967887669010435/photo/1

    Hello? Is that the Fashion Police? I'm calling to report a very serious crime.
    I'm not seeing a problem here.

    Stuart (NatSci)
    You and Suella must have missed the mandatory lecture series by Professor Selina Scott and Dr Jeff Banks that was running at that time. Would've set the pair of you right on a few things.
    The fragrant Miss Scott doesn't get enough mentions on these pages.
    Very few people mention her in a sweater context though. Nor any other wool-based garment.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,208

    ping said:

    Doesn’t look good for South Wales Police;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-wales-65681556

    My thoughts in this case are with South Wales Police, and those law abiding residents who are having their property torched.

    On the other hand I suppose, it's a shame for the scallys on a scooter, but live like a t**t, die like a t**t.
    I know Alun Michael personally, the South Wales Police and Crime Commissioner, and he will be very upset and determined to investigate the facts and behaviour of the police

    While we are not politically aligned we have always had a really good business and family relationship
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,109
    edited May 2023
    The government is perhaps doubling down on postal voting to provide cover against their unjustified changes to ordinary voting.

    Personally I am very skeptical about postal voting because I think it impairs the communal aspect of voting.

    There are very few communal acts left in British society. (The same is less true in USA, which embraces its public holidays with enviable enthusiasm).
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,048
    edited May 2023
    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    ping said:

    Doesn’t look good for South Wales Police;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-wales-65681556

    That's a horror show :( . Hoping for calm, but everyone is going to have to work twice as hard to achieve that.
    Call me crazy, but that looks like green and yellow livery. Isn't it some kind of ambulance? I thought police used blue?
    Not in South Wales. See South Wales police livery: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=south+wales+police+heddlu+livery
    Yes, that's all coming up as blue and yellow.
    I can't see HEDDLU on the van in the video either. Hmmmmm
    The colours are weird most of the way across, but if you look as it leaves the frame on the left it's clearly police yellow and blue.

    ETA:
    image
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,760
    Chris said:

    ping said:

    Doesn’t look good for South Wales Police;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-wales-65681556

    My thoughts in this case are with South Wales Police, and those law abiding residents who are having their property torched.

    On the other hand I suppose, it's a shame for the scallys on a scooter, but live like a t**t, die like a t**t.
    What would it take for some of the fools here to stop shouting their mouths off based on ignorance of the facts?
    Bleeding heart liberals need to wake up.

    Ignorance of the facts eh? I know the North Part of Ely, and it is hard as nails. But I also know that for the most part the hard working residents whose cars are being burned out don't deserve to be at the receiving end of minority scumbag violence.

    Let's hope it rains tonight.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,865
    Imperial academic lead in £12 million fusion power industry partnership
    https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/244994/imperial-academic-lead-12-million-fusion/
    ...researchers from across the three universities and two companies will work together to study the behaviour of materials at extreme temperatures, pressures, and densities, examining how heat, matter, and radiation flow at interfaces between materials that have vastly different properties.

    “By exploring these exciting, relatively unknown conditions and learning about matter and radiation transport here, we hope to significantly improve physics models of the processes involved for the whole High Energy Density Science community. These will enable First Light to design much more efficient, higher yield targets that could potentially lead the way to ‘on grid’ power production,” said Dr Simon Bland in Imperial’s Department of Physics, principal investigator on the project.

    Dr Bland will be joined at Imperial by several co-investigators in the departments of Physics and Chemical Engineering who will work to support First Light’s ambition to make fusion scaleable.

    “This grant, which First Light is match funding to bring it to £12 million, will be a vital platform in recruiting the best and the brightest physicists to First Light, and more critically, unlock important physics research as we continue with our mission of solving the problem of fusion power with the simplest machine possible,” said Dr Nick Hawker, Co-founder & CEO of First Light Fusion...
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,000
    BIB - How crass can you get?

    A former Metropolitan police officer who investigated Wayne Couzens over two indecent exposure incidents hours before he kidnapped, raped and murdered Sarah Everard has been barred for life from the police service after being found guilty of gross misconduct.

    Samantha Lee carried out a “sloppy” and “unprofessional” investigation after Couzens, 50, exposed himself to female staff at a drive-through McDonald’s in Kent on 14 and 27 February 2021, a police disciplinary hearing has found.

    She failed to secure CCTV footage when she visited the restaurant on 3 March, hours before Couzens abducted Everard, 33, in Clapham, south-west London.

    Lee, 29, lied when later questioned about her actions, claiming she believed the CCTV at the restaurant deleted automatically.

    On Tuesday, a disciplinary panel at Palestra House in Southwark, south London, said her dishonesty amounted to gross misconduct.

    The legal chair, Darren Snow, said Lee lied about the CCTV at a meeting with two senior officers on 12 March 2021, after the arrest of Couzens three days earlier. He added: “Having lied in that first meeting, which we believe was borne out of stress and panic of the situation, PC Lee has simply decided to continue that lie through these proceedings.”

    Concluding the panel’s findings, Snow said that Lee would have been dismissed without notice had she still been a serving police officer. He added that she will be barred from serving in the police again.

    Neil Saunders, Lee’s representative, said she was “obviously disappointed in the outcome” of the one-week hearing. “She maintains that she has not lied to you, sir, or from that meeting on 12 March,” he added.

    While under investigation for the failings, Lee quit the force and reportedly set up an OnlyFans account called Officer Naughty. She now faces being barred for life from the police service.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/may/23/former-met-pc-samantha-lee-guilty-of-gross-misconduct-over-wayne-couzens-indecent-exposure-inquiry
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,109
    edited May 2023
    Jonathan Portes’s article in support of the government’s immigration policy is very good.

    He cites himself here, (which I haven’t read yet), as evidence that we are generally seeing higher skilled migrants, at least once you net out the students, Hong Kongers and Ukrainians.

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/21582041.2023.2192516

    I still have some doubts about that.

    Interesting that wages in hospitality have not risen, despite the chronic labour shortage in part delivered by Europeans going home.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,048
    Farooq said:

    Selebian said:

    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    ping said:

    Doesn’t look good for South Wales Police;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-wales-65681556

    That's a horror show :( . Hoping for calm, but everyone is going to have to work twice as hard to achieve that.
    Call me crazy, but that looks like green and yellow livery. Isn't it some kind of ambulance? I thought police used blue?
    Not in South Wales. See South Wales police livery: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=south+wales+police+heddlu+livery
    Yes, that's all coming up as blue and yellow.
    I can't see HEDDLU on the van in the video either. Hmmmmm
    The colours are weird most of the way across, but if you look as it leaves the frame on the left it's clearly police yellow and blue.

    ETA:
    image
    That still looks green to me, but it's too dark for ambulance green so it must be blue
    Hmm, if you think that's green, I have a dress to show you :wink:
  • Options
    RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,234
    edited May 2023

    algarkirk said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sorry, from PT for those asking me how the Big Brexit Apology will work. I've given this some thought and I'd suggest as follows:

    By my calculations because of differential death rates the number of people who voted Leave and Remain in the 2016 referendum is identical at 15,674,232 apiece. Matched up by algorithm this generates 7,837,116 pairs, one Remainer and one Leaver, like Tinder except it’s done at random not on looks or compatibility. The results are mailed out (each Remainer told who ‘their’ Leaver is and vice versa) and contact details are included so a meet-up for each duo can be arranged. 4 weeks are allowed for this, otherwise there are punishments. Everyone complies (not fancying any of the punishments) and the stage is set for the business end of the exercise.

    Let’s assume I’m matched with a Leaver from Dudley called Trevor. We exchange texts and decide that he’ll come to Hampstead because I don’t want to go to Dudley. I tell him Wednesday 10.30 sharp at the Coffee Cup.

    Trevor arrives (thankfully not as hirsute as his picture) and joins me at my table. I put down my Guardian and give him my fullest. Straight off he does the necessary. “I’m truly sorry,” he says. That’s all that’s required. There’s no need to make a meal of it. The point of this is to heal not foster further ill-feeling. I receive his brief but heartfelt offering in similar generous spirit. “It’s ok, Trevor,” I say, “to be human is to err.” He looks relieved. It’s as if a huge weight has been lifted from him. I smile and ask what sort of bespoke decaf latte he wants.

    The two of us then pass a pleasant half hour getting to know each other. No politics of course. It could be he likes Boris Johnson (being from Dudley) and we don’t want to risk something like that spoiling the vibe between us. The objective is to part on friendly terms even though our paths are unlikely to cross again. Which is what we do. Remainer Me and Leaver Trevor part on the best of terms. The apology has cleared the decks for this to happen. I feel better, he feels better. We can MOVE ON. And as it is for us so it is for the entire country, assuming the other 7,837,115 meets go equally well – which they surely will.

    Alternatively, in a few years you will have a
    Brexiphany - a moment of piercing spiritual insight when you and all the other Remoaner idiots realise you were wrong and Brexit was right

    You will come to us Brexiteers to be shrived, and we shall generously forgive you, insisting merely that your left buttock is modestly tattooed with the smiling face of Nigel Farage, symbolising your penance

    How many Brexiteers will be alive in a few years' time though?

    Not many who will admit to it, going on current trends.

    Even if you allow for the possibility that Brexit has objectively been a good thing, the steadily growing will of the people is to regard it as a mistake. Doesn't Matter- the public are right, even when they're wrong. And the people who persuaded the public to do this in the first place are pretty much all diminished in the public's eyes.

    To take a popular analogy, the country is not only back on the pill, but it's got a headache.
    It's odd but the dislike of Brexit does not seem to translate into a desire to rejoin. I suspect that the EU is not seen by most voters as a beacon to lead the country back to the future. I think that right now the overwhelming political view of most people is one giant "meh". I was entertaining a large group of 25 friends for a memorial celebration of my former partner's life here this weekend - mostly aged late 40-50 and that seemed very much their general attitude. They're a fairly m/c group based in London surroundings. What struck me most was just their general lack of interest. But they were huge fun to be with for this almost 70 year old.


    Dislike of Brexit coupled with no desire for Rejoin leads inevitably to the one very obvious conclusion: There was and is no real, deep thought out desire to settle for either Remain or Brexit. The only majority there can be is for a position between those two poles - the one position which was not on the exam paper in 2016.

    The reason for this is evident. Once the relevant thinking has been done, there is a majority in favour of a European FTA to a maximal degree - including most elements of the SM. But there isn't and never will be agreement with political, fiscal, monetary and economic integration and union, or for FOM.

    Of the thinkable futures a reformed EU to allow for this is the best. Second best is a unique UK Europe deal (which many Brexit supporters legitimately expected); third best is EFTA/EEA; fourth best is Switzerland.

    If Sir K happens to be an as yet undiscerned political genius of premier magnitude we shall get to one of these destinations. We need Blair, Thatcher, Attlee, Major, Obama and Clinton all rolled into one, and only the good bits.

    The first is a complete non starter. A reform to the extent you are suggesting is simply never going to happen. And why should it? Why should the EU bend its will to our desires? It is not politiclly nor economically viable.
    I think what's clear is the we can't cherry pick what we want from the single market. If we want free movement of goods, capital, and services we have to compromise on free movement of people (though Article 112 of the EEA might provide a potential solution as to how you can 'control' immigration while accepting FoM).
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,451
    Nigelb said:

    Fact Sheet On German Military Aid To #Ukraine 🇩🇪🇺🇦

    Newly PLEDGED equipment:

    - 15 Gepard SPAAGs
    - 12 IRIS-T SLS SAM Launchers
    - 11 Oshkosh M1070 Tank Transporters
    - 20.000 155mm Artillery Rounds
    - 100 MG5 GP Machine Guns
    - 100 GMG Grenade Launchers

    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1661017696971157504

    Some serious air defence kit there.

    It’s great that Germany is now fully committed to supporting Ukraine

    I remember when lots of excuses were made for them here when they were sending second hand helmets to Poland and fuck all else to help Ukraine, because of some convoluted shit about Hitler

  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 11,588

    algarkirk said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sorry, from PT for those asking me how the Big Brexit Apology will work. I've given this some thought and I'd suggest as follows:

    By my calculations because of differential death rates the number of people who voted Leave and Remain in the 2016 referendum is identical at 15,674,232 apiece. Matched up by algorithm this generates 7,837,116 pairs, one Remainer and one Leaver, like Tinder except it’s done at random not on looks or compatibility. The results are mailed out (each Remainer told who ‘their’ Leaver is and vice versa) and contact details are included so a meet-up for each duo can be arranged. 4 weeks are allowed for this, otherwise there are punishments. Everyone complies (not fancying any of the punishments) and the stage is set for the business end of the exercise.

    Let’s assume I’m matched with a Leaver from Dudley called Trevor. We exchange texts and decide that he’ll come to Hampstead because I don’t want to go to Dudley. I tell him Wednesday 10.30 sharp at the Coffee Cup.

    Trevor arrives (thankfully not as hirsute as his picture) and joins me at my table. I put down my Guardian and give him my fullest. Straight off he does the necessary. “I’m truly sorry,” he says. That’s all that’s required. There’s no need to make a meal of it. The point of this is to heal not foster further ill-feeling. I receive his brief but heartfelt offering in similar generous spirit. “It’s ok, Trevor,” I say, “to be human is to err.” He looks relieved. It’s as if a huge weight has been lifted from him. I smile and ask what sort of bespoke decaf latte he wants.

    The two of us then pass a pleasant half hour getting to know each other. No politics of course. It could be he likes Boris Johnson (being from Dudley) and we don’t want to risk something like that spoiling the vibe between us. The objective is to part on friendly terms even though our paths are unlikely to cross again. Which is what we do. Remainer Me and Leaver Trevor part on the best of terms. The apology has cleared the decks for this to happen. I feel better, he feels better. We can MOVE ON. And as it is for us so it is for the entire country, assuming the other 7,837,115 meets go equally well – which they surely will.

    Alternatively, in a few years you will have a
    Brexiphany - a moment of piercing spiritual insight when you and all the other Remoaner idiots realise you were wrong and Brexit was right

    You will come to us Brexiteers to be shrived, and we shall generously forgive you, insisting merely that your left buttock is modestly tattooed with the smiling face of Nigel Farage, symbolising your penance

    How many Brexiteers will be alive in a few years' time though?

    Not many who will admit to it, going on current trends.

    Even if you allow for the possibility that Brexit has objectively been a good thing, the steadily growing will of the people is to regard it as a mistake. Doesn't Matter- the public are right, even when they're wrong. And the people who persuaded the public to do this in the first place are pretty much all diminished in the public's eyes.

    To take a popular analogy, the country is not only back on the pill, but it's got a headache.
    It's odd but the dislike of Brexit does not seem to translate into a desire to rejoin. I suspect that the EU is not seen by most voters as a beacon to lead the country back to the future. I think that right now the overwhelming political view of most people is one giant "meh". I was entertaining a large group of 25 friends for a memorial celebration of my former partner's life here this weekend - mostly aged late 40-50 and that seemed very much their general attitude. They're a fairly m/c group based in London surroundings. What struck me most was just their general lack of interest. But they were huge fun to be with for this almost 70 year old.


    Dislike of Brexit coupled with no desire for Rejoin leads inevitably to the one very obvious conclusion: There was and is no real, deep thought out desire to settle for either Remain or Brexit. The only majority there can be is for a position between those two poles - the one position which was not on the exam paper in 2016.

    The reason for this is evident. Once the relevant thinking has been done, there is a majority in favour of a European FTA to a maximal degree - including most elements of the SM. But there isn't and never will be agreement with political, fiscal, monetary and economic integration and union, or for FOM.

    Of the thinkable futures a reformed EU to allow for this is the best. Second best is a unique UK Europe deal (which many Brexit supporters legitimately expected); third best is EFTA/EEA; fourth best is Switzerland.

    If Sir K happens to be an as yet undiscerned political genius of premier magnitude we shall get to one of these destinations. We need Blair, Thatcher, Attlee, Major, Obama and Clinton all rolled into one, and only the good bits.

    The first is a complete non starter. A reform to the extent you are suggesting is simply never going to happen. And why should it? Why should the EU bend its will to our desires? It is not politiclly nor economically viable.
    Fair point. I didn't offer odds on it. It would and could happen in the longer run if, and only if, a number of key countries turned against a politically integrationist policy. It is unlikely since the Euro/ECB came about because this was the decisive step to render any alternative to EU statehood impossible.

    This was also, looking back, the moment, coupled with Cameron's failure even to get a decent fig leaf, at which Brexit became inevitable.

  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,000
    Selebian said:

    Farooq said:

    Selebian said:

    Farooq said:

    viewcode said:

    Farooq said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    ping said:

    Doesn’t look good for South Wales Police;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-wales-65681556

    That's a horror show :( . Hoping for calm, but everyone is going to have to work twice as hard to achieve that.
    Call me crazy, but that looks like green and yellow livery. Isn't it some kind of ambulance? I thought police used blue?
    Not in South Wales. See South Wales police livery: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=south+wales+police+heddlu+livery
    Yes, that's all coming up as blue and yellow.
    I can't see HEDDLU on the van in the video either. Hmmmmm
    The colours are weird most of the way across, but if you look as it leaves the frame on the left it's clearly police yellow and blue.

    ETA:
    image
    That still looks green to me, but it's too dark for ambulance green so it must be blue
    Hmm, if you think that's green, I have a dress to show you :wink:
    It's white & gold and anybody who disagrees needs to get to Specsavers ASAP.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 51,714
    Nigelb said:

    Fact Sheet On German Military Aid To #Ukraine 🇩🇪🇺🇦

    Newly PLEDGED equipment:

    - 15 Gepard SPAAGs
    - 12 IRIS-T SLS SAM Launchers
    - 11 Oshkosh M1070 Tank Transporters
    - 20.000 155mm Artillery Rounds
    - 100 MG5 GP Machine Guns
    - 100 GMG Grenade Launchers

    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1661017696971157504

    Some serious air defence kit there.

    Good to see Germany finally join in properly with the party. Well done to all involved.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 46,406

    Nigelb said:

    Fact Sheet On German Military Aid To #Ukraine 🇩🇪🇺🇦

    Newly PLEDGED equipment:

    - 15 Gepard SPAAGs
    - 12 IRIS-T SLS SAM Launchers
    - 11 Oshkosh M1070 Tank Transporters
    - 20.000 155mm Artillery Rounds
    - 100 MG5 GP Machine Guns
    - 100 GMG Grenade Launchers

    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1661017696971157504

    Some serious air defence kit there.

    It’s great that Germany is now fully committed to supporting Ukraine

    I remember when lots of excuses were made for them here when they were sending second hand helmets to Poland and fuck all else to help Ukraine, because of some convoluted shit about Hitler

    It’s not convoluted. Modern Germany has carefully built itself as Not *That* Germany. A big part of Not *That* Germany was peace with Russia. Hence a reflex by many centrist politicians in Germany…
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 40,223

    kinabalu said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Though it must be said SKS still isn't exactly setting the world alight and will not be swept into Downing St on a wave of euphoria from the masses like the blessed Tony.

    Which is another reason I can see trouble ahead for Labour in the 2024-2029 Parliament..

    Alternatively, he will disappoint far fewer people than Blair did!
    Exactly. Him not 'sealing the deal' is deliberate big ticket expectations management. If you can win without getting people all gooey eyed and delusional that's a far preferable way to enter government. This is deep, forward thinking strategy from SKS. He is very very very good at politics.
    He staged a John Lewis photo op to point at wallpaper
    The missteps have been minor. He's got 2 workstreams going: (1) ensure the GE win by fostering a general impression of competence, seriousness and moderation, neutralizing all tory attack lines. (2) roll the pitch for after the win, not with a blizzard of bullshit promises but with a series of targeted realistic policy proposals. Both of these streams are on track. It's not sexy but that's fine because the British people aren't looking for 'sexy'. They've matured since 2019. They've had to.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,635

    Chris said:

    ping said:

    Doesn’t look good for South Wales Police;

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-wales-65681556

    My thoughts in this case are with South Wales Police, and those law abiding residents who are having their property torched.

    On the other hand I suppose, it's a shame for the scallys on a scooter, but live like a t**t, die like a t**t.
    What would it take for some of the fools here to stop shouting their mouths off based on ignorance of the facts?
    Bleeding heart liberals need to wake up.

    Ignorance of the facts eh? I know the North Part of Ely, and it is hard as nails. ...
    Is it harder than the substance between your ears, I wonder?
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Ghedebrav said:

    Completely off topic but just got dad and lad seats at Wembley for this Sunday’s League 2 playoff final. £75 all in for category 2 seats, which is not bad really. It’ll be his first trip to Wembley; fully expect 35k+ County fans there with us (dunno what Carlisle will bring; 20k maybe?). Expecting a glorious day in the sunshine, hopefully cheering Stockport on to a second successive promotion.

    All those moaning Minnies who decry the playoff system can get in the sea/bin. They’re brilliant and make for fantastic occasions.

    I'm going to Wembley on Monday to see the mighty Wednesday take on the Dingles.
    Good luck. For obscure reasons I’m not fond of them and have a peculiar affinity with Wednesday - the first match I ever went to was at Hillsborough.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,129

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sorry, from PT for those asking me how the Big Brexit Apology will work. I've given this some thought and I'd suggest as follows:

    By my calculations because of differential death rates the number of people who voted Leave and Remain in the 2016 referendum is identical at 15,674,232 apiece. Matched up by algorithm this generates 7,837,116 pairs, one Remainer and one Leaver, like Tinder except it’s done at random not on looks or compatibility. The results are mailed out (each Remainer told who ‘their’ Leaver is and vice versa) and contact details are included so a meet-up for each duo can be arranged. 4 weeks are allowed for this, otherwise there are punishments. Everyone complies (not fancying any of the punishments) and the stage is set for the business end of the exercise.

    Let’s assume I’m matched with a Leaver from Dudley called Trevor. We exchange texts and decide that he’ll come to Hampstead because I don’t want to go to Dudley. I tell him Wednesday 10.30 sharp at the Coffee Cup.

    Trevor arrives (thankfully not as hirsute as his picture) and joins me at my table. I put down my Guardian and give him my fullest. Straight off he does the necessary. “I’m truly sorry,” he says. That’s all that’s required. There’s no need to make a meal of it. The point of this is to heal not foster further ill-feeling. I receive his brief but heartfelt offering in similar generous spirit. “It’s ok, Trevor,” I say, “to be human is to err.” He looks relieved. It’s as if a huge weight has been lifted from him. I smile and ask what sort of bespoke decaf latte he wants.

    The two of us then pass a pleasant half hour getting to know each other. No politics of course. It could be he likes Boris Johnson (being from Dudley) and we don’t want to risk something like that spoiling the vibe between us. The objective is to part on friendly terms even though our paths are unlikely to cross again. Which is what we do. Remainer Me and Leaver Trevor part on the best of terms. The apology has cleared the decks for this to happen. I feel better, he feels better. We can MOVE ON. And as it is for us so it is for the entire country, assuming the other 7,837,115 meets go equally well – which they surely will.

    Alternatively, in a few years you will have a
    Brexiphany - a moment of piercing spiritual insight when you and all the other Remoaner idiots realise you were wrong and Brexit was right

    You will come to us Brexiteers to be shrived, and we shall generously forgive you, insisting merely that your left buttock is modestly tattooed with the smiling face of Nigel Farage, symbolising your penance

    How many Brexiteers will be alive in a few years' time though?

    Not many who will admit to it, going on current trends.

    Even if you allow for the possibility that Brexit has objectively been a good thing, the steadily growing will of the people is to regard it as a mistake. Doesn't Matter- the public are right, even when they're wrong. And the people who persuaded the public to do this in the first place are pretty much all diminished in the public's eyes.

    To take a popular analogy, the country is not only back on the pill, but it's got a headache.
    It's odd but the dislike of Brexit does not seem to translate into a desire to rejoin. I suspect that the EU is not seen by most voters as a beacon to lead the country back to the future. I think that right now the overwhelming political view of most people is one giant "meh". I was entertaining a large group of 25 friends for a memorial celebration of my former partner's life here this weekend - mostly aged late 40-50 and that seemed very much their general attitude. They're a fairly m/c group based in London surroundings. What struck me most was just their general lack of interest. But they were huge fun to be with for this almost 70 year old.


    The polls suggest otherwise;

    https://www.whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll-of-polls-uk-eu/
    Not if you recall most of the polls before the 2016 vote.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 19,482

    Nigelb said:

    Fact Sheet On German Military Aid To #Ukraine 🇩🇪🇺🇦

    Newly PLEDGED equipment:

    - 15 Gepard SPAAGs
    - 12 IRIS-T SLS SAM Launchers
    - 11 Oshkosh M1070 Tank Transporters
    - 20.000 155mm Artillery Rounds
    - 100 MG5 GP Machine Guns
    - 100 GMG Grenade Launchers

    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1661017696971157504

    Some serious air defence kit there.

    It’s great that Germany is now fully committed to supporting Ukraine

    I remember when lots of excuses were made for them here when they were sending second hand helmets to Poland and fuck all else to help Ukraine, because of some convoluted shit about Hitler

    2016. Year Zero.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,315

    Nigelb said:

    Fact Sheet On German Military Aid To #Ukraine 🇩🇪🇺🇦

    Newly PLEDGED equipment:

    - 15 Gepard SPAAGs
    - 12 IRIS-T SLS SAM Launchers
    - 11 Oshkosh M1070 Tank Transporters
    - 20.000 155mm Artillery Rounds
    - 100 MG5 GP Machine Guns
    - 100 GMG Grenade Launchers

    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1661017696971157504

    Some serious air defence kit there.

    It’s great that Germany is now fully committed to supporting Ukraine

    I remember when lots of excuses were made for them here when they were sending second hand helmets to Poland and fuck all else to help Ukraine, because of some convoluted shit about Hitler

    It’s not convoluted. Modern Germany has carefully built itself as Not *That* Germany. A big part of Not *That* Germany was peace with Russia. Hence a reflex by many centrist politicians in Germany…
    It's almost like somebody wrote an article about this.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/01/29/the-intermarium/
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,000
    edited May 2023
    felix said:

    felix said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sorry, from PT for those asking me how the Big Brexit Apology will work. I've given this some thought and I'd suggest as follows:

    By my calculations because of differential death rates the number of people who voted Leave and Remain in the 2016 referendum is identical at 15,674,232 apiece. Matched up by algorithm this generates 7,837,116 pairs, one Remainer and one Leaver, like Tinder except it’s done at random not on looks or compatibility. The results are mailed out (each Remainer told who ‘their’ Leaver is and vice versa) and contact details are included so a meet-up for each duo can be arranged. 4 weeks are allowed for this, otherwise there are punishments. Everyone complies (not fancying any of the punishments) and the stage is set for the business end of the exercise.

    Let’s assume I’m matched with a Leaver from Dudley called Trevor. We exchange texts and decide that he’ll come to Hampstead because I don’t want to go to Dudley. I tell him Wednesday 10.30 sharp at the Coffee Cup.

    Trevor arrives (thankfully not as hirsute as his picture) and joins me at my table. I put down my Guardian and give him my fullest. Straight off he does the necessary. “I’m truly sorry,” he says. That’s all that’s required. There’s no need to make a meal of it. The point of this is to heal not foster further ill-feeling. I receive his brief but heartfelt offering in similar generous spirit. “It’s ok, Trevor,” I say, “to be human is to err.” He looks relieved. It’s as if a huge weight has been lifted from him. I smile and ask what sort of bespoke decaf latte he wants.

    The two of us then pass a pleasant half hour getting to know each other. No politics of course. It could be he likes Boris Johnson (being from Dudley) and we don’t want to risk something like that spoiling the vibe between us. The objective is to part on friendly terms even though our paths are unlikely to cross again. Which is what we do. Remainer Me and Leaver Trevor part on the best of terms. The apology has cleared the decks for this to happen. I feel better, he feels better. We can MOVE ON. And as it is for us so it is for the entire country, assuming the other 7,837,115 meets go equally well – which they surely will.

    Alternatively, in a few years you will have a
    Brexiphany - a moment of piercing spiritual insight when you and all the other Remoaner idiots realise you were wrong and Brexit was right

    You will come to us Brexiteers to be shrived, and we shall generously forgive you, insisting merely that your left buttock is modestly tattooed with the smiling face of Nigel Farage, symbolising your penance

    How many Brexiteers will be alive in a few years' time though?

    Not many who will admit to it, going on current trends.

    Even if you allow for the possibility that Brexit has objectively been a good thing, the steadily growing will of the people is to regard it as a mistake. Doesn't Matter- the public are right, even when they're wrong. And the people who persuaded the public to do this in the first place are pretty much all diminished in the public's eyes.

    To take a popular analogy, the country is not only back on the pill, but it's got a headache.
    It's odd but the dislike of Brexit does not seem to translate into a desire to rejoin. I suspect that the EU is not seen by most voters as a beacon to lead the country back to the future. I think that right now the overwhelming political view of most people is one giant "meh". I was entertaining a large group of 25 friends for a memorial celebration of my former partner's life here this weekend - mostly aged late 40-50 and that seemed very much their general attitude. They're a fairly m/c group based in London surroundings. What struck me most was just their general lack of interest. But they were huge fun to be with for this almost 70 year old.


    The polls suggest otherwise;

    https://www.whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll-of-polls-uk-eu/
    Not if you recall most of the polls before the 2016 vote.
    Fun fact.

    A majority of the polls conducted entirely in June 2016, a majority had Leave ahead.

    16 polls had Leave ahead

    15 polls had Remain ahead.

    It would be 17 polls had Leave ahead if we included the poll that saw 75% of the fieldwork took place in June.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 40,223

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sorry, from PT for those asking me how the Big Brexit Apology will work. I've given this some thought and I'd suggest as follows:

    By my calculations because of differential death rates the number of people who voted Leave and Remain in the 2016 referendum is identical at 15,674,232 apiece. Matched up by algorithm this generates 7,837,116 pairs, one Remainer and one Leaver, like Tinder except it’s done at random not on looks or compatibility. The results are mailed out (each Remainer told who ‘their’ Leaver is and vice versa) and contact details are included so a meet-up for each duo can be arranged. 4 weeks are allowed for this, otherwise there are punishments. Everyone complies (not fancying any of the punishments) and the stage is set for the business end of the exercise.

    Let’s assume I’m matched with a Leaver from Dudley called Trevor. We exchange texts and decide that he’ll come to Hampstead because I don’t want to go to Dudley. I tell him Wednesday 10.30 sharp at the Coffee Cup.

    Trevor arrives (thankfully not as hirsute as his picture) and joins me at my table. I put down my Guardian and give him my fullest. Straight off he does the necessary. “I’m truly sorry,” he says. That’s all that’s required. There’s no need to make a meal of it. The point of this is to heal not foster further ill-feeling. I receive his brief but heartfelt offering in similar generous spirit. “It’s ok, Trevor,” I say, “to be human is to err.” He looks relieved. It’s as if a huge weight has been lifted from him. I smile and ask what sort of bespoke decaf latte he wants.

    The two of us then pass a pleasant half hour getting to know each other. No politics of course. It could be he likes Boris Johnson (being from Dudley) and we don’t want to risk something like that spoiling the vibe between us. The objective is to part on friendly terms even though our paths are unlikely to cross again. Which is what we do. Remainer Me and Leaver Trevor part on the best of terms. The apology has cleared the decks for this to happen. I feel better, he feels better. We can MOVE ON. And as it is for us so it is for the entire country, assuming the other 7,837,115 meets go equally well – which they surely will.

    Alternatively, in a few years you will have a
    Brexiphany - a moment of piercing spiritual insight when you and all the other Remoaner idiots realise you were wrong and Brexit was right

    You will come to us Brexiteers to be shrived, and we shall generously forgive you, insisting merely that your left buttock is modestly tattooed with the smiling face of Nigel Farage, symbolising your penance
    Perhaps. But let's do the Big Brexit Apology first, given I've designed it and everything. We can road-test it on here. Match each PB remainer with 'their' PB leaver who will deliver the (brief but heartfelt) apology to them personally. I bags you. No rush but when you're ready.
    You chose the wrong day to ask for an apology (not that you were ever going to get one)

    The guardian has turned. Brexit = good
    Sold as a way to reduce immigration but good because it's done the opposite?
    Far from Brexit being a racist project it turns out that the only time that Vote Leave was telling the truth was when they told minority voters that voting Leave would mean more immigration from the Commonwealth. And they've even got Leon on board for more immigration. Fair play to them, genuinely.
    It's a bizarre scenario isn't it. Brexit delivers greater diversity and more immigration. Has the bus changed its livery mid journey? Where's it going now? Are people allowed to get off? I ask because although there are liberal pro-immigration Leavers (esp on here) they are not a majority of those who voted for the project in 2016.
    It was one of Vote Leave's campaign points:

    https://www.ft.com/content/94adcefa-1dd5-11e6-a7bc-ee846770ec15

    Vote Leave is hoping to secure the backing of British Asians by telling them that if Britain quits the EU, it will mean more immigration from elsewhere in the world.
    Some micro-messaging here and there but the big picture message was 'take back control of our borders'. The anti-immigration 'feel' of that garnered millions of votes and helped secure the victory for Leave.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,171
    I saw the face of Akhenaten’s mother today
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,171
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sorry, from PT for those asking me how the Big Brexit Apology will work. I've given this some thought and I'd suggest as follows:

    By my calculations because of differential death rates the number of people who voted Leave and Remain in the 2016 referendum is identical at 15,674,232 apiece. Matched up by algorithm this generates 7,837,116 pairs, one Remainer and one Leaver, like Tinder except it’s done at random not on looks or compatibility. The results are mailed out (each Remainer told who ‘their’ Leaver is and vice versa) and contact details are included so a meet-up for each duo can be arranged. 4 weeks are allowed for this, otherwise there are punishments. Everyone complies (not fancying any of the punishments) and the stage is set for the business end of the exercise.

    Let’s assume I’m matched with a Leaver from Dudley called Trevor. We exchange texts and decide that he’ll come to Hampstead because I don’t want to go to Dudley. I tell him Wednesday 10.30 sharp at the Coffee Cup.

    Trevor arrives (thankfully not as hirsute as his picture) and joins me at my table. I put down my Guardian and give him my fullest. Straight off he does the necessary. “I’m truly sorry,” he says. That’s all that’s required. There’s no need to make a meal of it. The point of this is to heal not foster further ill-feeling. I receive his brief but heartfelt offering in similar generous spirit. “It’s ok, Trevor,” I say, “to be human is to err.” He looks relieved. It’s as if a huge weight has been lifted from him. I smile and ask what sort of bespoke decaf latte he wants.

    The two of us then pass a pleasant half hour getting to know each other. No politics of course. It could be he likes Boris Johnson (being from Dudley) and we don’t want to risk something like that spoiling the vibe between us. The objective is to part on friendly terms even though our paths are unlikely to cross again. Which is what we do. Remainer Me and Leaver Trevor part on the best of terms. The apology has cleared the decks for this to happen. I feel better, he feels better. We can MOVE ON. And as it is for us so it is for the entire country, assuming the other 7,837,115 meets go equally well – which they surely will.

    Alternatively, in a few years you will have a
    Brexiphany - a moment of piercing spiritual insight when you and all the other Remoaner idiots realise you were wrong and Brexit was right

    You will come to us Brexiteers to be shrived, and we shall generously forgive you, insisting merely that your left buttock is modestly tattooed with the smiling face of Nigel Farage, symbolising your penance
    Perhaps. But let's do the Big Brexit Apology first, given I've designed it and everything. We can road-test it on here. Match each PB remainer with 'their' PB leaver who will deliver the (brief but heartfelt) apology to them personally. I bags you. No rush but when you're ready.
    You chose the wrong day to ask for an apology (not that you were ever going to get one)

    The guardian has turned. Brexit = good
    Sold as a way to reduce immigration but good because it's done the opposite?
    Far from Brexit being a racist project it turns out that the only time that Vote Leave was telling the truth was when they told minority voters that voting Leave would mean more immigration from the Commonwealth. And they've even got Leon on board for more immigration. Fair play to them, genuinely.
    It's a bizarre scenario isn't it. Brexit delivers greater diversity and more immigration. Has the bus changed its livery mid journey? Where's it going now? Are people allowed to get off? I ask because although there are liberal pro-immigration Leavers (esp on here) they are not a majority of those who voted for the project in 2016.
    True story: I remember talking to *a very senior Brexiteer* during the referendum campaign and telling him: “you’re probably going to win on immigration”

    He didn’t seem entirely comfortable with that. Although he was super keen to win
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,000
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sorry, from PT for those asking me how the Big Brexit Apology will work. I've given this some thought and I'd suggest as follows:

    By my calculations because of differential death rates the number of people who voted Leave and Remain in the 2016 referendum is identical at 15,674,232 apiece. Matched up by algorithm this generates 7,837,116 pairs, one Remainer and one Leaver, like Tinder except it’s done at random not on looks or compatibility. The results are mailed out (each Remainer told who ‘their’ Leaver is and vice versa) and contact details are included so a meet-up for each duo can be arranged. 4 weeks are allowed for this, otherwise there are punishments. Everyone complies (not fancying any of the punishments) and the stage is set for the business end of the exercise.

    Let’s assume I’m matched with a Leaver from Dudley called Trevor. We exchange texts and decide that he’ll come to Hampstead because I don’t want to go to Dudley. I tell him Wednesday 10.30 sharp at the Coffee Cup.

    Trevor arrives (thankfully not as hirsute as his picture) and joins me at my table. I put down my Guardian and give him my fullest. Straight off he does the necessary. “I’m truly sorry,” he says. That’s all that’s required. There’s no need to make a meal of it. The point of this is to heal not foster further ill-feeling. I receive his brief but heartfelt offering in similar generous spirit. “It’s ok, Trevor,” I say, “to be human is to err.” He looks relieved. It’s as if a huge weight has been lifted from him. I smile and ask what sort of bespoke decaf latte he wants.

    The two of us then pass a pleasant half hour getting to know each other. No politics of course. It could be he likes Boris Johnson (being from Dudley) and we don’t want to risk something like that spoiling the vibe between us. The objective is to part on friendly terms even though our paths are unlikely to cross again. Which is what we do. Remainer Me and Leaver Trevor part on the best of terms. The apology has cleared the decks for this to happen. I feel better, he feels better. We can MOVE ON. And as it is for us so it is for the entire country, assuming the other 7,837,115 meets go equally well – which they surely will.

    Alternatively, in a few years you will have a
    Brexiphany - a moment of piercing spiritual insight when you and all the other Remoaner idiots realise you were wrong and Brexit was right

    You will come to us Brexiteers to be shrived, and we shall generously forgive you, insisting merely that your left buttock is modestly tattooed with the smiling face of Nigel Farage, symbolising your penance
    Perhaps. But let's do the Big Brexit Apology first, given I've designed it and everything. We can road-test it on here. Match each PB remainer with 'their' PB leaver who will deliver the (brief but heartfelt) apology to them personally. I bags you. No rush but when you're ready.
    You chose the wrong day to ask for an apology (not that you were ever going to get one)

    The guardian has turned. Brexit = good
    Sold as a way to reduce immigration but good because it's done the opposite?
    Far from Brexit being a racist project it turns out that the only time that Vote Leave was telling the truth was when they told minority voters that voting Leave would mean more immigration from the Commonwealth. And they've even got Leon on board for more immigration. Fair play to them, genuinely.
    It's a bizarre scenario isn't it. Brexit delivers greater diversity and more immigration. Has the bus changed its livery mid journey? Where's it going now? Are people allowed to get off? I ask because although there are liberal pro-immigration Leavers (esp on here) they are not a majority of those who voted for the project in 2016.
    It was one of Vote Leave's campaign points:

    https://www.ft.com/content/94adcefa-1dd5-11e6-a7bc-ee846770ec15

    Vote Leave is hoping to secure the backing of British Asians by telling them that if Britain quits the EU, it will mean more immigration from elsewhere in the world.
    Some micro-messaging here and there but the big picture message was 'take back control of our borders'. The anti-immigration 'feel' of that garnered millions of votes and helped secure the victory for Leave.
    There's a simple test we can conduct.

    Get Tory MPs in the Red Wall to send leaflets to their constituents with the Portes article.

    Every Tory MP in the Red Wall will hold their seats with increased majorities.

    Am I right?
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,462
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    what this? it’s just an article from the year 2000 about suella fernandes, president of the cambridge university conservative association, who was accused of vote rigging and responded with a reassuring “you can’t prove anything”



    https://twitter.com/alexandrakuri/status/1660967887669010435/photo/1

    Hello? Is that the Fashion Police? I'm calling to report a very serious crime.
    I wonder how she got from there to wishing to take over the world?
    CUCA could be a vicious rite of passage.

    I avoided student politics, glad I did.
    I have to doubt your wisdom. Cuca is as you say, but rather pointless. I can't imagine the Union has lowered its standards - they let anyone in apart from people they don't like, and people they don't like would be best illustrated by the shabby attire worn by our now Home Secretary in that picture. Not he slightest question of Pitt club influence of course.
    That picture has achieved the impossible and made me feel sorry for Suella Braverman.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,315
    Leon said:

    I saw the face of Akhenaten’s mother today

    ...and the first words you said were "I'm not the father" :)
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 55,300
    Can we move on from the EU and Brexit please?

    Just for, like, 24 hours.

    Can we talk about Leon's time in Egypt. Or about Russia fighting insurgents in Bolgograd. Or about Montenegro's elections, which are just two weeks away. Or about what happens if the the US defaults on its debt.

    Just, like, not Brexit.

    Not today please.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,025

    Nigelb said:

    Fact Sheet On German Military Aid To #Ukraine 🇩🇪🇺🇦

    Newly PLEDGED equipment:

    - 15 Gepard SPAAGs
    - 12 IRIS-T SLS SAM Launchers
    - 11 Oshkosh M1070 Tank Transporters
    - 20.000 155mm Artillery Rounds
    - 100 MG5 GP Machine Guns
    - 100 GMG Grenade Launchers

    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1661017696971157504

    Some serious air defence kit there.

    It’s great that Germany is now fully committed to supporting Ukraine

    I remember when lots of excuses were made for them here when they were sending second hand helmets to Poland and fuck all else to help Ukraine, because of some convoluted shit about Hitler

    I remember when people on here were on their way to Kyiv. Things change.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,000
    rcs1000 said:

    Can we move on from the EU and Brexit please?

    Just for, like, 24 hours.

    Can we talk about Leon's time in Egypt. Or about Russia fighting insurgents in Bolgograd. Or about Montenegro's elections, which are just two weeks away. Or about what happens if the the US defaults on its debt.

    Just, like, not Brexit.

    Not today please.

    How about we're going to become a cashless society in the next decade.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,171

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sorry, from PT for those asking me how the Big Brexit Apology will work. I've given this some thought and I'd suggest as follows:

    By my calculations because of differential death rates the number of people who voted Leave and Remain in the 2016 referendum is identical at 15,674,232 apiece. Matched up by algorithm this generates 7,837,116 pairs, one Remainer and one Leaver, like Tinder except it’s done at random not on looks or compatibility. The results are mailed out (each Remainer told who ‘their’ Leaver is and vice versa) and contact details are included so a meet-up for each duo can be arranged. 4 weeks are allowed for this, otherwise there are punishments. Everyone complies (not fancying any of the punishments) and the stage is set for the business end of the exercise.

    Let’s assume I’m matched with a Leaver from Dudley called Trevor. We exchange texts and decide that he’ll come to Hampstead because I don’t want to go to Dudley. I tell him Wednesday 10.30 sharp at the Coffee Cup.

    Trevor arrives (thankfully not as hirsute as his picture) and joins me at my table. I put down my Guardian and give him my fullest. Straight off he does the necessary. “I’m truly sorry,” he says. That’s all that’s required. There’s no need to make a meal of it. The point of this is to heal not foster further ill-feeling. I receive his brief but heartfelt offering in similar generous spirit. “It’s ok, Trevor,” I say, “to be human is to err.” He looks relieved. It’s as if a huge weight has been lifted from him. I smile and ask what sort of bespoke decaf latte he wants.

    The two of us then pass a pleasant half hour getting to know each other. No politics of course. It could be he likes Boris Johnson (being from Dudley) and we don’t want to risk something like that spoiling the vibe between us. The objective is to part on friendly terms even though our paths are unlikely to cross again. Which is what we do. Remainer Me and Leaver Trevor part on the best of terms. The apology has cleared the decks for this to happen. I feel better, he feels better. We can MOVE ON. And as it is for us so it is for the entire country, assuming the other 7,837,115 meets go equally well – which they surely will.

    Alternatively, in a few years you will have a
    Brexiphany - a moment of piercing spiritual insight when you and all the other Remoaner idiots realise you were wrong and Brexit was right

    You will come to us Brexiteers to be shrived, and we shall generously forgive you, insisting merely that your left buttock is modestly tattooed with the smiling face of Nigel Farage, symbolising your penance
    Perhaps. But let's do the Big Brexit Apology first, given I've designed it and everything. We can road-test it on here. Match each PB remainer with 'their' PB leaver who will deliver the (brief but heartfelt) apology to them personally. I bags you. No rush but when you're ready.
    You chose the wrong day to ask for an apology (not that you were ever going to get one)

    The guardian has turned. Brexit = good
    Sold as a way to reduce immigration but good because it's done the opposite?
    Far from Brexit being a racist project it turns out that the only time that Vote Leave was telling the truth was when they told minority voters that voting Leave would mean more immigration from the Commonwealth. And they've even got Leon on board for more immigration. Fair play to them, genuinely.
    It's a bizarre scenario isn't it. Brexit delivers greater diversity and more immigration. Has the bus changed its livery mid journey? Where's it going now? Are people allowed to get off? I ask because although there are liberal pro-immigration Leavers (esp on here) they are not a majority of those who voted for the project in 2016.
    It was one of Vote Leave's campaign points:

    https://www.ft.com/content/94adcefa-1dd5-11e6-a7bc-ee846770ec15

    Vote Leave is hoping to secure the backing of British Asians by telling them that if Britain quits the EU, it will mean more immigration from elsewhere in the world.
    Some micro-messaging here and there but the big picture message was 'take back control of our borders'. The anti-immigration 'feel' of that garnered millions of votes and helped secure the victory for Leave.
    There's a simple test we can conduct.

    Get Tory MPs in the Red Wall to send leaflets to their constituents with the Portes article.

    Every Tory MP in the Red Wall will hold their seats with increased majorities.

    Am I right?
    Only an idiot would deny this. People who wanted lower immigration voted Leave

    But can you blame them? British politics offered them one lever to pull. Nothing else. So they pulled it and hoped for the best

    Our entire membership of the EEC/EU was a charade of lies - by europhiles. “There will be no loss of sovereignty”. “You will have a referendum on the Constitution”. “A tidying up exercise” etc etc

    The fact we Brexited on one final lie - this time from the eurosceptics - is satisfyingly ironic
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,462
    Leon said:

    I saw the face of Akhenaten’s mother today

    Hot?
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,462

    rcs1000 said:

    Can we move on from the EU and Brexit please?

    Just for, like, 24 hours.

    Can we talk about Leon's time in Egypt. Or about Russia fighting insurgents in Bolgograd. Or about Montenegro's elections, which are just two weeks away. Or about what happens if the the US defaults on its debt.

    Just, like, not Brexit.

    Not today please.

    How about we're going to become a cashless society in the next decade.
    With food prices where they are it's going to be a lot quicker than that for some people.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,025

    Leon said:

    I saw the face of Akhenaten’s mother today

    Hot?
    The pharaohs were polygamous weren’t they? She could be described as a step-mom..
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,171

    Leon said:

    I saw the face of Akhenaten’s mother today

    Hot?
    One of them was. One of the Royal Mummies. I’m not kidding. I’m now slightly drunk on Tanqueray and tonic on a BA flight to LHR so I can’t remember which

    But I recall I looked at this 3500 year old corpse and I thought “you were a good looking woman in your time”. Petite. With excellent cheekbones

    Ramesses the Great is fucking creepy. He is an old man. But with lots of hair. Could be your grandad on his deathbed in a wig but coloured with dark fake tan
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,000
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sorry, from PT for those asking me how the Big Brexit Apology will work. I've given this some thought and I'd suggest as follows:

    By my calculations because of differential death rates the number of people who voted Leave and Remain in the 2016 referendum is identical at 15,674,232 apiece. Matched up by algorithm this generates 7,837,116 pairs, one Remainer and one Leaver, like Tinder except it’s done at random not on looks or compatibility. The results are mailed out (each Remainer told who ‘their’ Leaver is and vice versa) and contact details are included so a meet-up for each duo can be arranged. 4 weeks are allowed for this, otherwise there are punishments. Everyone complies (not fancying any of the punishments) and the stage is set for the business end of the exercise.

    Let’s assume I’m matched with a Leaver from Dudley called Trevor. We exchange texts and decide that he’ll come to Hampstead because I don’t want to go to Dudley. I tell him Wednesday 10.30 sharp at the Coffee Cup.

    Trevor arrives (thankfully not as hirsute as his picture) and joins me at my table. I put down my Guardian and give him my fullest. Straight off he does the necessary. “I’m truly sorry,” he says. That’s all that’s required. There’s no need to make a meal of it. The point of this is to heal not foster further ill-feeling. I receive his brief but heartfelt offering in similar generous spirit. “It’s ok, Trevor,” I say, “to be human is to err.” He looks relieved. It’s as if a huge weight has been lifted from him. I smile and ask what sort of bespoke decaf latte he wants.

    The two of us then pass a pleasant half hour getting to know each other. No politics of course. It could be he likes Boris Johnson (being from Dudley) and we don’t want to risk something like that spoiling the vibe between us. The objective is to part on friendly terms even though our paths are unlikely to cross again. Which is what we do. Remainer Me and Leaver Trevor part on the best of terms. The apology has cleared the decks for this to happen. I feel better, he feels better. We can MOVE ON. And as it is for us so it is for the entire country, assuming the other 7,837,115 meets go equally well – which they surely will.

    Alternatively, in a few years you will have a
    Brexiphany - a moment of piercing spiritual insight when you and all the other Remoaner idiots realise you were wrong and Brexit was right

    You will come to us Brexiteers to be shrived, and we shall generously forgive you, insisting merely that your left buttock is modestly tattooed with the smiling face of Nigel Farage, symbolising your penance
    Perhaps. But let's do the Big Brexit Apology first, given I've designed it and everything. We can road-test it on here. Match each PB remainer with 'their' PB leaver who will deliver the (brief but heartfelt) apology to them personally. I bags you. No rush but when you're ready.
    You chose the wrong day to ask for an apology (not that you were ever going to get one)

    The guardian has turned. Brexit = good
    Sold as a way to reduce immigration but good because it's done the opposite?
    Far from Brexit being a racist project it turns out that the only time that Vote Leave was telling the truth was when they told minority voters that voting Leave would mean more immigration from the Commonwealth. And they've even got Leon on board for more immigration. Fair play to them, genuinely.
    It's a bizarre scenario isn't it. Brexit delivers greater diversity and more immigration. Has the bus changed its livery mid journey? Where's it going now? Are people allowed to get off? I ask because although there are liberal pro-immigration Leavers (esp on here) they are not a majority of those who voted for the project in 2016.
    It was one of Vote Leave's campaign points:

    https://www.ft.com/content/94adcefa-1dd5-11e6-a7bc-ee846770ec15

    Vote Leave is hoping to secure the backing of British Asians by telling them that if Britain quits the EU, it will mean more immigration from elsewhere in the world.
    Some micro-messaging here and there but the big picture message was 'take back control of our borders'. The anti-immigration 'feel' of that garnered millions of votes and helped secure the victory for Leave.
    There's a simple test we can conduct.

    Get Tory MPs in the Red Wall to send leaflets to their constituents with the Portes article.

    Every Tory MP in the Red Wall will hold their seats with increased majorities.

    Am I right?
    Only an idiot would deny this. People who wanted lower immigration voted Leave

    But can you blame them? British politics offered them one lever to pull. Nothing else. So they pulled it and hoped for the best

    Our entire membership of the EEC/EU was a charade of lies - by europhiles. “There will be no loss of sovereignty”. “You will have a referendum on the Constitution”. “A tidying up exercise” etc etc

    The fact we Brexited on one final lie - this time from the eurosceptics - is satisfyingly ironic
    The poor Red Wall voters.

    They'll back Leave, at least when we part of the EU we got mass immigration but at least we could travel hassle free to the EU, now we get mass immigration but no hassle free travel to the EU.

    In the Rejoin referendum I confidently predict the Red Wall will vote to Rejoin stronger than London will.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 11,588

    rcs1000 said:

    Can we move on from the EU and Brexit please?

    Just for, like, 24 hours.

    Can we talk about Leon's time in Egypt. Or about Russia fighting insurgents in Bolgograd. Or about Montenegro's elections, which are just two weeks away. Or about what happens if the the US defaults on its debt.

    Just, like, not Brexit.

    Not today please.

    How about we're going to become a cashless society in the next decade.
    Or bringing back the county of Middlesex.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,865

    Leon said:

    I saw the face of Akhenaten’s mother today

    Hot?
    Cairo in May ?
    Of course it is.
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,451

    Nigelb said:

    Fact Sheet On German Military Aid To #Ukraine 🇩🇪🇺🇦

    Newly PLEDGED equipment:

    - 15 Gepard SPAAGs
    - 12 IRIS-T SLS SAM Launchers
    - 11 Oshkosh M1070 Tank Transporters
    - 20.000 155mm Artillery Rounds
    - 100 MG5 GP Machine Guns
    - 100 GMG Grenade Launchers

    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1661017696971157504

    Some serious air defence kit there.

    It’s great that Germany is now fully committed to supporting Ukraine

    I remember when lots of excuses were made for them here when they were sending second hand helmets to Poland and fuck all else to help Ukraine, because of some convoluted shit about Hitler

    It’s not convoluted. Modern Germany has carefully built itself as Not *That* Germany. A big part of Not *That* Germany was peace with Russia. Hence a reflex by many centrist politicians in Germany…
    The Germans now admit that it was a grave and shameful mistake to not support Ukraine sooner

    Even they can see it was convoluted shit and a convenient excuse
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,865
    Lake Superior has a Twitter account.

    I've never seen a lake lose more than Kari Lake.
    https://twitter.com/LakeSuperior/status/1661030217656279040
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,462

    Leon said:

    I saw the face of Akhenaten’s mother today

    Hot?
    The pharaohs were polygamous weren’t they? She could be described as a step-mom..
    Or a Stepmummy?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 26,553
    edited May 2023
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-referred-police-broke-more-lockdown-rules-chequers-family-friends-0h0msqnld

    Boris Johnson referred to police over new lockdown rulebreaking claims
    Papers from Covid era show friends visited Chequers during lockdown

    Boris Johnson has been referred to police by the Cabinet Office over new claims he broke lockdown rules after his ministerial diary revealed visits by friends to Chequers during the pandemic.

    The Cabinet Office has passed concerns to the Metropolitan Police and Thames Valley police after several visits to the prime minister’s grace and favour residence were highlighted during preparations for a public inquiry into the pandemic.

    The privileges committee, which is investigating claims that Johnson misled parliament over lockdown-breaking parties, has been informed. Johnson was made aware of the concerns last week and has since written to the Cabinet Office denying rulebreaking.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,000

    Leon said:

    I saw the face of Akhenaten’s mother today

    Hot?
    The pharaohs were polygamous weren’t they? She could be described as a step-mom..
    What is this obsession with step-moms?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,315
    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Can we move on from the EU and Brexit please?

    Just for, like, 24 hours.

    Can we talk about Leon's time in Egypt. Or about Russia fighting insurgents in Bolgograd. Or about Montenegro's elections, which are just two weeks away. Or about what happens if the the US defaults on its debt.

    Just, like, not Brexit.

    Not today please.

    How about we're going to become a cashless society in the next decade.
    Or bringing back the county of Middlesex.
    We can always do the ceremonial counties and the lieutenancies. And why doesn't Wikipedia have a good map of the registration counties of Scotland. And why seemingly no country on this God's earth has a consistent and coherent set of second- and third-level subdivisions that are universally accepted, fit within each other, and have stable names and geocodes.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,000
    edited May 2023
    Boris Johnson has been referred to police by the Cabinet Office over new claims he broke lockdown rules after his ministerial diary revealed visits by friends to Chequers during the pandemic.

    The Cabinet Office has passed concerns to the Metropolitan Police and Thames Valley police after several visits to the prime minister’s grace and favour residence were highlighted during preparations for a public inquiry into the pandemic.

    The privileges committee, which is investigating claims that Johnson misled parliament over lockdown-breaking parties, has been informed. Johnson was made aware of the concerns last week and has since written to the Cabinet Office denying rulebreaking.

    A spokesman for the former prime minister said: “Some abbreviated entries in Mr Johnson’s official diary were queried by the Cabinet Office during preparation for the Covid Inquiry. Following an examination of the entries, Mr Johnson’s lawyers wrote to the Cabinet Office and privileges committee explaining that the events were lawful and were not breaches of any Covid regulations.”

    Johnson’s team called the referral a “clearly politically motivated attempt to manufacture something out of nothing”. They said that the Cabinet Office made no attempt to check the claims with Johnson before passing the matter to the police. Multiple sources told The Times that the alleged breaches involved Johnson’s family as well as his friends, though a source close to Johnson denied this.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-referred-police-broke-more-lockdown-rules-chequers-family-friends-0h0msqnld
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,090
    On topic, views of Sunak are simply being set based upon his perceived lack of success at the locals.

    I think he’s doing fine. He’s administering well and getting things done. IMF credited him today with switching UK from recession this year to (very) modest growth.

    My criticisms of him is that he’s too analytical /thorough and needs to get a bit more political, particularly in laying out a vision for the future.

    But, he is not “crap” - far from it.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,865

    Leon said:

    I saw the face of Akhenaten’s mother today

    Hot?
    The pharaohs were polygamous weren’t they? She could be described as a step-mom..
    What is this obsession with step-moms?
    This place is becoming a hub for it.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,487

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sorry, from PT for those asking me how the Big Brexit Apology will work. I've given this some thought and I'd suggest as follows:

    By my calculations because of differential death rates the number of people who voted Leave and Remain in the 2016 referendum is identical at 15,674,232 apiece. Matched up by algorithm this generates 7,837,116 pairs, one Remainer and one Leaver, like Tinder except it’s done at random not on looks or compatibility. The results are mailed out (each Remainer told who ‘their’ Leaver is and vice versa) and contact details are included so a meet-up for each duo can be arranged. 4 weeks are allowed for this, otherwise there are punishments. Everyone complies (not fancying any of the punishments) and the stage is set for the business end of the exercise.

    Let’s assume I’m matched with a Leaver from Dudley called Trevor. We exchange texts and decide that he’ll come to Hampstead because I don’t want to go to Dudley. I tell him Wednesday 10.30 sharp at the Coffee Cup.

    Trevor arrives (thankfully not as hirsute as his picture) and joins me at my table. I put down my Guardian and give him my fullest. Straight off he does the necessary. “I’m truly sorry,” he says. That’s all that’s required. There’s no need to make a meal of it. The point of this is to heal not foster further ill-feeling. I receive his brief but heartfelt offering in similar generous spirit. “It’s ok, Trevor,” I say, “to be human is to err.” He looks relieved. It’s as if a huge weight has been lifted from him. I smile and ask what sort of bespoke decaf latte he wants.

    The two of us then pass a pleasant half hour getting to know each other. No politics of course. It could be he likes Boris Johnson (being from Dudley) and we don’t want to risk something like that spoiling the vibe between us. The objective is to part on friendly terms even though our paths are unlikely to cross again. Which is what we do. Remainer Me and Leaver Trevor part on the best of terms. The apology has cleared the decks for this to happen. I feel better, he feels better. We can MOVE ON. And as it is for us so it is for the entire country, assuming the other 7,837,115 meets go equally well – which they surely will.

    Alternatively, in a few years you will have a
    Brexiphany - a moment of piercing spiritual insight when you and all the other Remoaner idiots realise you were wrong and Brexit was right

    You will come to us Brexiteers to be shrived, and we shall generously forgive you, insisting merely that your left buttock is modestly tattooed with the smiling face of Nigel Farage, symbolising your penance
    Perhaps. But let's do the Big Brexit Apology first, given I've designed it and everything. We can road-test it on here. Match each PB remainer with 'their' PB leaver who will deliver the (brief but heartfelt) apology to them personally. I bags you. No rush but when you're ready.
    You chose the wrong day to ask for an apology (not that you were ever going to get one)

    The guardian has turned. Brexit = good
    Sold as a way to reduce immigration but good because it's done the opposite?
    Far from Brexit being a racist project it turns out that the only time that Vote Leave was telling the truth was when they told minority voters that voting Leave would mean more immigration from the Commonwealth. And they've even got Leon on board for more immigration. Fair play to them, genuinely.
    It's a bizarre scenario isn't it. Brexit delivers greater diversity and more immigration. Has the bus changed its livery mid journey? Where's it going now? Are people allowed to get off? I ask because although there are liberal pro-immigration Leavers (esp on here) they are not a majority of those who voted for the project in 2016.
    It was one of Vote Leave's campaign points:

    https://www.ft.com/content/94adcefa-1dd5-11e6-a7bc-ee846770ec15

    Vote Leave is hoping to secure the backing of British Asians by telling them that if Britain quits the EU, it will mean more immigration from elsewhere in the world.
    Some micro-messaging here and there but the big picture message was 'take back control of our borders'. The anti-immigration 'feel' of that garnered millions of votes and helped secure the victory for Leave.
    There's a simple test we can conduct.

    Get Tory MPs in the Red Wall to send leaflets to their constituents with the Portes article.

    Every Tory MP in the Red Wall will hold their seats with increased majorities.

    Am I right?
    Only an idiot would deny this. People who wanted lower immigration voted Leave

    But can you blame them? British politics offered them one lever to pull. Nothing else. So they pulled it and hoped for the best

    Our entire membership of the EEC/EU was a charade of lies - by europhiles. “There will be no loss of sovereignty”. “You will have a referendum on the Constitution”. “A tidying up exercise” etc etc

    The fact we Brexited on one final lie - this time from the eurosceptics - is satisfyingly ironic
    The poor Red Wall voters.

    They'll back Leave, at least when we part of the EU we got mass immigration but at least we could travel hassle free to the EU, now we get mass immigration but no hassle free travel to the EU.

    In the Rejoin referendum I confidently predict the Red Wall will vote to Rejoin stronger than London will.
    EU immigration has fallen, there is no reason the government can't now use the new points system to reduce immigration from non EU nations too to those whose skills we need
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,675
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Politico.com - ‘Blood in the water for DeSantis’: Trump world embraces Tim Scott’s candidacy

    The former president’s team views virtually every ‘24 development through the prism of whether it helps or hurts Ron DeSantis.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/22/trump-tim-scott-2024-00098292

    . . . . Trump aides have been buoyed in recent days by signs that the ‘24 primary field is about to get crowded....


    ...Another thing that is very clear, is that Trump and his henchpeople are at least as frit of Ron DeSantis, as Blue Meanies on PB and beyond are of Keir Starmer.

    Ragging on & raging about RDS being the GOP equivalent of Tory Keir Fear.

    I don't think "fear" is accurate.
    Just SOP to gun for the rival with the highest numbers and most cash.

    If they have anything to really fear, it's their guy in front of a jury.

    Do NOT agree. PBers IMHO have been WAY toooooooo quick in writing off Ron DeSantis.

    One error that Trump and his Praetorian Guard are NOT making.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,315

    Leon said:

    I saw the face of Akhenaten’s mother today

    Hot?
    The pharaohs were polygamous weren’t they? She could be described as a step-mom..
    What is this obsession with step-moms?
    I believe there is a popular Internet site on the subject, m'Lud.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 26,553

    Boris Johnson has been referred to police by the Cabinet Office over new claims he broke lockdown rules after his ministerial diary revealed visits by friends to Chequers during the pandemic.

    The Cabinet Office has passed concerns to the Metropolitan Police and Thames Valley police after several visits to the prime minister’s grace and favour residence were highlighted during preparations for a public inquiry into the pandemic.

    The privileges committee, which is investigating claims that Johnson misled parliament over lockdown-breaking parties, has been informed. Johnson was made aware of the concerns last week and has since written to the Cabinet Office denying rulebreaking.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-referred-police-broke-more-lockdown-rules-chequers-family-friends-0h0msqnld

    slow coach - posted that 2 minutes earlier...
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,000
    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,451

    Nigelb said:

    Fact Sheet On German Military Aid To #Ukraine 🇩🇪🇺🇦

    Newly PLEDGED equipment:

    - 15 Gepard SPAAGs
    - 12 IRIS-T SLS SAM Launchers
    - 11 Oshkosh M1070 Tank Transporters
    - 20.000 155mm Artillery Rounds
    - 100 MG5 GP Machine Guns
    - 100 GMG Grenade Launchers

    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1661017696971157504

    Some serious air defence kit there.

    It’s great that Germany is now fully committed to supporting Ukraine

    I remember when lots of excuses were made for them here when they were sending second hand helmets to Poland and fuck all else to help Ukraine, because of some convoluted shit about Hitler

    I remember when people on here were on their way to Kyiv. Things change.
    And my words then seem more important to you than Germany’s shameful inertia
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,171
    This isn’t the one I’m thinking of but I also saw this babe today


    The queen pharaoh Hatshepsut



    You would, wouldn’t you? Cheeky smile. Lush hair. Maybe a bit past her late teenage prime now but ooof. YES
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,000
    eek said:

    Boris Johnson has been referred to police by the Cabinet Office over new claims he broke lockdown rules after his ministerial diary revealed visits by friends to Chequers during the pandemic.

    The Cabinet Office has passed concerns to the Metropolitan Police and Thames Valley police after several visits to the prime minister’s grace and favour residence were highlighted during preparations for a public inquiry into the pandemic.

    The privileges committee, which is investigating claims that Johnson misled parliament over lockdown-breaking parties, has been informed. Johnson was made aware of the concerns last week and has since written to the Cabinet Office denying rulebreaking.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-referred-police-broke-more-lockdown-rules-chequers-family-friends-0h0msqnld

    slow coach - posted that 2 minutes earlier...
    Sorry, I was laughing grateful that lawyers have screwed over Boris Johnson.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,487
    edited May 2023

    On topic, views of Sunak are simply being set based upon his perceived lack of success at the locals.

    I think he’s doing fine. He’s administering well and getting things done. IMF credited him today with switching UK from recession this year to (very) modest growth.

    My criticisms of him is that he’s too analytical /thorough and needs to get a bit more political, particularly in laying out a vision for the future.

    But, he is not “crap” - far from it.

    Indeed, apart from increasing tax a bit, especially on higher earners and the wealthy, spending a bit more, developing the greenbelt a bit more, and being a touch more aligned to EU regulations without rejoining is there much a Starmer government would do differently from a Sunak government? Reducing tax breaks from private schools and potentially having an elected Senate to replace the Lords seem the biggest differences between them. Starmer and Sunak are much less ideologically different than Johnson and Corbyn or May and Corbyn were
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,353
    I live but a mile away from Ely so surprised to see it all over the news today.

    What I find odd is the issue of the police chase. Why would someone be chased by a police van? Some kind of sadistic game? If you have the polic following you, why wouldn't you stop. It's ridiculous to blame them for causing a crash. But then why deny it if you are the police?
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,727
    edited May 2023

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,000

    On topic, views of Sunak are simply being set based upon his perceived lack of success at the locals.

    I think he’s doing fine. He’s administering well and getting things done. IMF credited him today with switching UK from recession this year to (very) modest growth.

    My criticisms of him is that he’s too analytical /thorough and needs to get a bit more political, particularly in laying out a vision for the future.

    But, he is not “crap” - far from it.

    He appointed Braverman as Home Secretary a week after she was sacked for an egregious security violation.

    That's what being crap is.

    He appointed Zahawi, Raab, and Williamson when they had red flags against them.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,668

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    Lawyers with awesome fashion sense, anyway.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 26,553

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
    Remember that it's the Government / Cabinet office paying Bozo's lawyer bills because Bozo didn't want to.

    So it seems (to me) the lawyers are doing the right thing by telling the person paying the bill what actually happened.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 51,171
    THAT’S ONE HOT TEEN PHARAOH QUEEN

    Don’t you just want to *unwrap* her?

    They really shouldn’t allow wifi on planes
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 12,357
    rcs1000 said:

    Can we move on from the EU and Brexit please?

    Just for, like, 24 hours.

    Can we talk about Leon's time in Egypt. Or about Russia fighting insurgents in Bolgograd. Or about Montenegro's elections, which are just two weeks away. Or about what happens if the the US defaults on its debt.

    Just, like, not Brexit.

    Not today please.

    Ok.

    Tbh, what I like about arguing about Brexit is that it shows the world is working. Arguing about Brexit is kind of a default state, and shows that our other concerns are not that pressing. It shows we're not worried about the world's imminent destruction, and because we've been round this block so many times we fall out less than we do about trans issues.

    But fine.

    I will mention it no more until at least ten past six tomorrow evening.
    As Arthur Balfour said, nothing matters very much, and few things matter at all.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,000

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
    TV shows don't do nuance.

    The reason my father watches medical dramas is so he can laugh at them for all their mistakes.
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited May 2023

    I live but a mile away from Ely so surprised to see it all over the news today.

    What I find odd is the issue of the police chase. Why would someone be chased by a police van? Some kind of sadistic game? If you have the polic following you, why wouldn't you stop. It's ridiculous to blame them for causing a crash. But then why deny it if you are the police?

    Fake police van? Seems unlikely, but it’s one way to square the circle…
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,727
    eek said:

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
    Remember that it's the Government / Cabinet office paying Bozo's lawyer bills because Bozo didn't want to.

    So it seems (to me) the lawyers are doing the right thing by telling the person paying the bill what actually happened.
    That would be very karmic if so.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,982
    @kiranstacey
    If I am reading this right, Boris gave lawyers access to his diaries to help with the Covid inquiry. But most unfortunately the lawyers seem to have found evidence of yet more potential lockdown breaches.

    @patrick_kidd
    Replying to @kiranstacey @GeneralBoles
    I suppose it could be worse. He could have given them to Isobel Oakeshott to help with his memoirs.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694
    HYUFD said:

    On topic, views of Sunak are simply being set based upon his perceived lack of success at the locals.

    I think he’s doing fine. He’s administering well and getting things done. IMF credited him today with switching UK from recession this year to (very) modest growth.

    My criticisms of him is that he’s too analytical /thorough and needs to get a bit more political, particularly in laying out a vision for the future.

    But, he is not “crap” - far from it.

    Indeed, apart from increasing tax a bit, especially on higher earners and the wealthy, spending a bit more, developing the greenbelt a bit more, and being a touch more aligned to EU regulations without rejoining is there much a Starmer government would do differently from a Sunak government? Reducing tax breaks from private schools and potentially having an elected Senate to replace the Lords seem the biggest differences between them. Starmer and Sunak are much less ideologically different than Johnson and Corbyn or May and Corbyn were
    You'll be pleased by this piece in the Guardian.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/23/britain-new-persecuted-minority-privately-educated-schools-oxbridge
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,208
    edited May 2023
    Sky saying the cabinet office have reported Johnson to the police over him inviting friends to Chequers during covid

    Johnson is a disgrace and I hope they throw the book at him

    Anyway at the very least he is not coming back

    https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-referred-to-police-over-fresh-claims-of-covid-lockdown-rule-breaking-12887865
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,000
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    On topic, views of Sunak are simply being set based upon his perceived lack of success at the locals.

    I think he’s doing fine. He’s administering well and getting things done. IMF credited him today with switching UK from recession this year to (very) modest growth.

    My criticisms of him is that he’s too analytical /thorough and needs to get a bit more political, particularly in laying out a vision for the future.

    But, he is not “crap” - far from it.

    Indeed, apart from increasing tax a bit, especially on higher earners and the wealthy, spending a bit more, developing the greenbelt a bit more, and being a touch more aligned to EU regulations without rejoining is there much a Starmer government would do differently from a Sunak government? Reducing tax breaks from private schools and potentially having an elected Senate to replace the Lords seem the biggest differences between them. Starmer and Sunak are much less ideologically different than Johnson and Corbyn or May and Corbyn were
    You'll be pleased by this piece in the Guardian.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/23/britain-new-persecuted-minority-privately-educated-schools-oxbridge
    I've been saying that for years.

    Us private educated people are the last group it is acceptable to be prejudiced against.

    You have no idea the hardships we have to endure from this snobbery.

    Here's the proof.

    It is ok to say a privately educated politician is out of touch because of the choices their parents made, but I cannot be allowed to be elitist against some fucking pleb who went to a bog standard comprehensive.

    Where's the fairness in that?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
    TV shows don't do nuance.

    The reason my father watches medical dramas is so he can laugh at them for all their mistakes.
    You should see what forensic pathologists and forensic scientists have to say.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,694

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    On topic, views of Sunak are simply being set based upon his perceived lack of success at the locals.

    I think he’s doing fine. He’s administering well and getting things done. IMF credited him today with switching UK from recession this year to (very) modest growth.

    My criticisms of him is that he’s too analytical /thorough and needs to get a bit more political, particularly in laying out a vision for the future.

    But, he is not “crap” - far from it.

    Indeed, apart from increasing tax a bit, especially on higher earners and the wealthy, spending a bit more, developing the greenbelt a bit more, and being a touch more aligned to EU regulations without rejoining is there much a Starmer government would do differently from a Sunak government? Reducing tax breaks from private schools and potentially having an elected Senate to replace the Lords seem the biggest differences between them. Starmer and Sunak are much less ideologically different than Johnson and Corbyn or May and Corbyn were
    You'll be pleased by this piece in the Guardian.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/23/britain-new-persecuted-minority-privately-educated-schools-oxbridge
    I've been saying that for years.

    Us private educated people are the last group it is acceptable to be prejudiced against.

    You have no idea the hardships we have to endure from this snobbery.

    Here's the proof.

    It is ok to say a privately educated politician is out of touch because of the choices their parents made, but I cannot be allowed to be elitist against some fucking pleb who went to a bog standard comprehensive.

    Where's the fairness in that?
    I'll go and cut up a very small shallot.
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Lovely to see all the people who said Johnson was a superb PM whilst he was ahead now saying he is a disgrace.

    It was obvious before he was PM this would happen.
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Why do politicians keep being asked about penises?

    Can't we mature the debate a bit?
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,025
    edited May 2023

    Nigelb said:

    Fact Sheet On German Military Aid To #Ukraine 🇩🇪🇺🇦

    Newly PLEDGED equipment:

    - 15 Gepard SPAAGs
    - 12 IRIS-T SLS SAM Launchers
    - 11 Oshkosh M1070 Tank Transporters
    - 20.000 155mm Artillery Rounds
    - 100 MG5 GP Machine Guns
    - 100 GMG Grenade Launchers

    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1661017696971157504

    Some serious air defence kit there.

    It’s great that Germany is now fully committed to supporting Ukraine

    I remember when lots of excuses were made for them here when they were sending second hand helmets to Poland and fuck all else to help Ukraine, because of some convoluted shit about Hitler

    I remember when people on here were on their way to Kyiv. Things change.
    And my words then seem more important to you than Germany’s shameful inertia
    I collect hypocrisies, chickenhawks giving it large about others’ shameful inertia are definitely in that category.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,675

    I live but a mile away from Ely so surprised to see it all over the news today.

    What I find odd is the issue of the police chase. Why would someone be chased by a police van? Some kind of sadistic game? If you have the polic following you, why wouldn't you stop. It's ridiculous to blame them for causing a crash. But then why deny it if you are the police?

    Someone being chased by police, because cops think they're breaking the law (the chased, not the cops) MAY stop. But often they will not, because they are trying to evade apprehension and/or arrest.

    With teenagers being perhaps even more likely to flee than adults.

    Back in my own misspent youth, guys would drive around late at night thus attracting attention of local cops. Who in our very small town, were just as bored as a rule as the kids.

    One favorite way of evading the long arm of the law, was to head up a local hill with the fuzz in pursuit, then duck into a handy driveway and kill the lights. Then watch Barney Fife whiz by obvious to what had happened. Cops never did seem to catch on.

    As for police statement re: this tragic incident in Wales, seems to me that it is VERY carefully worded, thus NOT exactly a full denial.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,760
    ...

    Boris Johnson has been referred to police by the Cabinet Office over new claims he broke lockdown rules after his ministerial diary revealed visits by friends to Chequers during the pandemic.

    The Cabinet Office has passed concerns to the Metropolitan Police and Thames Valley police after several visits to the prime minister’s grace and favour residence were highlighted during preparations for a public inquiry into the pandemic.

    The privileges committee, which is investigating claims that Johnson misled parliament over lockdown-breaking parties, has been informed. Johnson was made aware of the concerns last week and has since written to the Cabinet Office denying rulebreaking.

    A spokesman for the former prime minister said: “Some abbreviated entries in Mr Johnson’s official diary were queried by the Cabinet Office during preparation for the Covid Inquiry. Following an examination of the entries, Mr Johnson’s lawyers wrote to the Cabinet Office and privileges committee explaining that the events were lawful and were not breaches of any Covid regulations.”

    Johnson’s team called the referral a “clearly politically motivated attempt to manufacture something out of nothing”. They said that the Cabinet Office made no attempt to check the claims with Johnson before passing the matter to the police. Multiple sources told The Times that the alleged breaches involved Johnson’s family as well as his friends, though a source close to Johnson denied this.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-referred-police-broke-more-lockdown-rules-chequers-family-friends-0h0msqnld

    Let us hope the investigation is as rigorous as Abbagate..
  • Options

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
    Were the lawyers acting for Johnson or the Government? Very, very different things.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,663

    Sky saying the cabinet office have reported Johnson to the police over him inviting friends to Chequers during covid

    Johnson is a disgrace and I hope they throw the book at him

    Anyway at the very least he is not coming back

    https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-referred-to-police-over-fresh-claims-of-covid-lockdown-rule-breaking-12887865

    Hopefully this is the end . Could this though delay the Priviliges Committee report ?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,000

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
    Were the lawyers acting for Johnson or the Government? Very, very different things.
    Acting for Johnson but being paid out of public funds via the Cabinet Office.

    The inference is that they had two clients and two competing duties of care.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,208
    edited May 2023

    Lovely to see all the people who said Johnson was a superb PM whilst he was ahead now saying he is a disgrace.

    It was obvious before he was PM this would happen.

    Until Patersongate Johnson was doing OK and dealt with covid better than Starmer would have with his constant demands for continuing lockdown and Johnson was the leading supporter for Ukraine

    Indeed he led in the polls, but the culmination of patersongate to partygate trampled over his successes and turned not only the country but many conservatives against him

    I would throw your accusation straight back at you as you were an avid and dedicated Corbyn supporter, who now has rejected your own loyalty to Corbyn and reversed completely to supporting Starmer

    It was obvious Corbyn was unacceptable even when you proclaimed support for him
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,000
    Carnyx said:

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
    TV shows don't do nuance.

    The reason my father watches medical dramas is so he can laugh at them for all their mistakes.
    You should see what forensic pathologists and forensic scientists have to say.
    I know a crime scene investigator, he says he hasn't seen a crime show where every episode didn't involve the characters engaging in some massive contamination of a crime scene.

    Like wearing gloves will keep the scene clean.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 51,714

    Why do politicians keep being asked about penises?

    Can't we mature the debate a bit?

    Because politicians keep saying that women have them.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 46,406
    ping said:

    I live but a mile away from Ely so surprised to see it all over the news today.

    What I find odd is the issue of the police chase. Why would someone be chased by a police van? Some kind of sadistic game? If you have the polic following you, why wouldn't you stop. It's ridiculous to blame them for causing a crash. But then why deny it if you are the police?

    Fake police van? Seems unlikely, but it’s one way to square the circle…
    Following them, but not a chase? IIRC the two are separate things in police operations and vocabulary.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 51,171
    Here she is. Absolute MINX. Queen Tiye


  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,760

    Lovely to see all the people who said Johnson was a superb PM whilst he was ahead now saying he is a disgrace.

    It was obvious before he was PM this would happen.

    Until Patersongate Johnson was doing OK and dealt with covid better than Starmer would have with his constant demands for continuing lockdown and Johnson was the leading supporter for Ukraine

    Indeed he led in the polls, but the culmination of patersongate to partygate trampled over his successes and turned not only the country but many conservatives against him

    I would throw your accusation straight back at you as you were an avid and dedicated Corbyn supporter, who now has rejected your own loyalty to Corbyn and reversed completely to supporting Starmer
    You've sold me. Bring back Boris!
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,675
    eek said:

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
    Remember that it's the Government / Cabinet office paying Bozo's lawyer bills because Bozo didn't want to.

    So it seems (to me) the lawyers are doing the right thing by telling the person paying the bill what actually happened.
    Boris Johnson is a life-long Drone who has made his living leeching off other people's money. Ditto Donald Trump.

    Rancid peas in a polluted pod. Or visa versa.
  • Options

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
    Were the lawyers acting for Johnson or the Government? Very, very different things.
    Acting for Johnson but being paid out of public funds via the Cabinet Office.

    The inference is that they had two clients and two competing duties of care.
    Really? Can you have one lawyer, two guvnors given potential for conflict? I'd assume the engagement letter is with the Cabinet Office given they are writing the cheques.

    Anyway, certainly they couldn't conceal information from the Cabinet Office in the interests of Johnson as that would be a clear conflict.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,675

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
    Were the lawyers acting for Johnson or the Government? Very, very different things.
    For HMG because BJ is serial freeloader?
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited May 2023

    Lovely to see all the people who said Johnson was a superb PM whilst he was ahead now saying he is a disgrace.

    It was obvious before he was PM this would happen.

    I think the tories were idiots to make him PM. And idiots to get rid of him.

    I accept, I’m probably the only person in Britain with this view…
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,399
    There is comedy to be had today:
    1. The minister for excuses says the reason why 3 points isn't in breach of the ministerial code is because Rishi says so
    2. Johnson successfully gets himself referred to the police again for ignoring his own Covid rules again and lying about it again
    3. Dehenna Davison under scrutiny for her own apparent ministerial code breach

    And thats all in the same afternoon. All the various opposition parties need to keep doing is reminding everyone of how corrupt this whole thing is. Just like in the 90s under Major, the individual "scandal" need not be anything much, just the perception of scandal does the damage.
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    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,451

    Nigelb said:

    Fact Sheet On German Military Aid To #Ukraine 🇩🇪🇺🇦

    Newly PLEDGED equipment:

    - 15 Gepard SPAAGs
    - 12 IRIS-T SLS SAM Launchers
    - 11 Oshkosh M1070 Tank Transporters
    - 20.000 155mm Artillery Rounds
    - 100 MG5 GP Machine Guns
    - 100 GMG Grenade Launchers

    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1661017696971157504

    Some serious air defence kit there.

    It’s great that Germany is now fully committed to supporting Ukraine

    I remember when lots of excuses were made for them here when they were sending second hand helmets to Poland and fuck all else to help Ukraine, because of some convoluted shit about Hitler

    I remember when people on here were on their way to Kyiv. Things change.
    And my words then seem more important to you than Germany’s shameful inertia
    I collect hypocrisies, chickenhawks giving it large about others’ shameful inertia are definitely in that category.
    I was using a leading German politician's words. You should tell him why it's important that I didn't go to Ukraine like I said I wanted to
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 19,482

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sorry, from PT for those asking me how the Big Brexit Apology will work. I've given this some thought and I'd suggest as follows:

    By my calculations because of differential death rates the number of people who voted Leave and Remain in the 2016 referendum is identical at 15,674,232 apiece. Matched up by algorithm this generates 7,837,116 pairs, one Remainer and one Leaver, like Tinder except it’s done at random not on looks or compatibility. The results are mailed out (each Remainer told who ‘their’ Leaver is and vice versa) and contact details are included so a meet-up for each duo can be arranged. 4 weeks are allowed for this, otherwise there are punishments. Everyone complies (not fancying any of the punishments) and the stage is set for the business end of the exercise.

    Let’s assume I’m matched with a Leaver from Dudley called Trevor. We exchange texts and decide that he’ll come to Hampstead because I don’t want to go to Dudley. I tell him Wednesday 10.30 sharp at the Coffee Cup.

    Trevor arrives (thankfully not as hirsute as his picture) and joins me at my table. I put down my Guardian and give him my fullest. Straight off he does the necessary. “I’m truly sorry,” he says. That’s all that’s required. There’s no need to make a meal of it. The point of this is to heal not foster further ill-feeling. I receive his brief but heartfelt offering in similar generous spirit. “It’s ok, Trevor,” I say, “to be human is to err.” He looks relieved. It’s as if a huge weight has been lifted from him. I smile and ask what sort of bespoke decaf latte he wants.

    The two of us then pass a pleasant half hour getting to know each other. No politics of course. It could be he likes Boris Johnson (being from Dudley) and we don’t want to risk something like that spoiling the vibe between us. The objective is to part on friendly terms even though our paths are unlikely to cross again. Which is what we do. Remainer Me and Leaver Trevor part on the best of terms. The apology has cleared the decks for this to happen. I feel better, he feels better. We can MOVE ON. And as it is for us so it is for the entire country, assuming the other 7,837,115 meets go equally well – which they surely will.

    Alternatively, in a few years you will have a
    Brexiphany - a moment of piercing spiritual insight when you and all the other Remoaner idiots realise you were wrong and Brexit was right

    You will come to us Brexiteers to be shrived, and we shall generously forgive you, insisting merely that your left buttock is modestly tattooed with the smiling face of Nigel Farage, symbolising your penance
    Perhaps. But let's do the Big Brexit Apology first, given I've designed it and everything. We can road-test it on here. Match each PB remainer with 'their' PB leaver who will deliver the (brief but heartfelt) apology to them personally. I bags you. No rush but when you're ready.
    You chose the wrong day to ask for an apology (not that you were ever going to get one)

    The guardian has turned. Brexit = good
    Sold as a way to reduce immigration but good because it's done the opposite?
    Far from Brexit being a racist project it turns out that the only time that Vote Leave was telling the truth was when they told minority voters that voting Leave would mean more immigration from the Commonwealth. And they've even got Leon on board for more immigration. Fair play to them, genuinely.
    It's a bizarre scenario isn't it. Brexit delivers greater diversity and more immigration. Has the bus changed its livery mid journey? Where's it going now? Are people allowed to get off? I ask because although there are liberal pro-immigration Leavers (esp on here) they are not a majority of those who voted for the project in 2016.
    It was one of Vote Leave's campaign points:

    https://www.ft.com/content/94adcefa-1dd5-11e6-a7bc-ee846770ec15

    Vote Leave is hoping to secure the backing of British Asians by telling them that if Britain quits the EU, it will mean more immigration from elsewhere in the world.
    Will Self said 'though not all leavers were racists all racists voted Leave'. Finger on the button by Will as usual
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 117,000

    LOL but hurrah for lawyers.

    The Times has been told by two government sources that Johnson gave the lawyers access to his diary, which includes details of all his meetings, to help assist his defence.

    However, while conducting the “disclosure review” the lawyers were said to have become concerned about details of visitors to Chequers during periods of restrictions in 2020 and 2021. They decided that they were duty-bound to raise the potential breaches of the rules and escalated the matter to senior figures in the Cabinet Office.

    The public notion that you can tell lawyers acting for you anything seems very different to the reality. Is this down to differences between the UK and US, or did TV script writers just make it up?
    Were the lawyers acting for Johnson or the Government? Very, very different things.
    Acting for Johnson but being paid out of public funds via the Cabinet Office.

    The inference is that they had two clients and two competing duties of care.
    Really? Can you have one lawyer, two guvnors given potential for conflict? I'd assume the engagement letter is with the Cabinet Office given they are writing the cheques.

    Anyway, certainly they couldn't conceal information from the Cabinet Office in the interests of Johnson as that would be a clear conflict.
    Might have been a different outcome if Boris Johnson wasn't too tight to pay for his own representation.
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