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Sturgeon and SNP – many questions remain – politicalbetting.com

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416
    Roger said:

    TOPPING said:

    Roger said:

    (snip)

    Testing

    As PB's relevant expert, I can definitively say that that is, indeed, a bird.
    As Pb.com's resident twitcher, I would go so far as to say of the family Columbidae.
    I once drove over one out of a pair of doves of some kind. Not my fault guv, either run it over or swerve dangerously, but I did feel supremely guilty because the other one was left on its own. And they are very much paired animals aren't they?
    You have good reason to feel guilty. That is one of a pair that returns to my balcony in France every time I visit. Their colouring is quite distinctive and they both do exactly the same things as though one is imitating the other. Whether one is male and the other female I couldn't say. I don't have binoculars powerful enough
    It's rather a handsome photo. At least, I think so.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Impt scoop from @ChristopherJM : Ukraine is ready to discuss the future of Crimea if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula
    https://twitter.com/felschwartz/status/1643711244019302400

    Aksyonov, the head of the Crimean Republic, has started his own Wagner-lite organisation called PMC Convoy in anticipation of whatever and they are heavily recruiting in Africa by paying more than Wagner.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,263
    Heathener said:

    I've lived and worked around the world so none of this, Trump - Murrell, gets my pulse moving.

    I'm used to corruption. It's what politicians and leaders, especially male ones, do. It's in their DNA. Be cynical about the lot of them and I find you don't get disappointed.

    #everydaysexism
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,344

    Roger said:

    OT. After the defenestration of Maggie John Sergent (I think) said of Ted Heath it brings to mind the old Spanish saying 'If you sit by the river long enough the body of your enemy will come floating by'. It then became one of my favourite sayings which I have used on here before now but oddly I'd never heard it used anywhere else until this morning....

    .....Nick Robinson used it in relation to the Sturgeon affair and attributed it to Sun Tzu. If correct it's quite disappointing.

    The charm of the Spanish peasant sitting by the river is a big part of what makes it work. A Chinese philosopher General of the pre-Ming dynasty is something altogether less attractive

    Deffo Sun Tzu, but he may just have been quoting an exisiting saying.

    I'm not sure Alex Salmond gives a damn, though, as he sits patiently by the Clyde....
    He would more likely be by the Dee or the Don
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416
    edited April 2023
    malcolmg said:

    Roger said:

    OT. After the defenestration of Maggie John Sergent (I think) said of Ted Heath it brings to mind the old Spanish saying 'If you sit by the river long enough the body of your enemy will come floating by'. It then became one of my favourite sayings which I have used on here before now but oddly I'd never heard it used anywhere else until this morning....

    .....Nick Robinson used it in relation to the Sturgeon affair and attributed it to Sun Tzu. If correct it's quite disappointing.

    The charm of the Spanish peasant sitting by the river is a big part of what makes it work. A Chinese philosopher General of the pre-Ming dynasty is something altogether less attractive

    Deffo Sun Tzu, but he may just have been quoting an exisiting saying.

    I'm not sure Alex Salmond gives a damn, though, as he sits patiently by the Clyde....
    He would more likely be by the Dee or the Don
    And quiet flows the Don, with Sturgeon's career in it...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,623
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Impt scoop from @ChristopherJM : Ukraine is ready to discuss the future of Crimea if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula
    https://twitter.com/felschwartz/status/1643711244019302400

    Aksyonov, the head of the Crimean Republic, has started his own Wagner-lite organisation called PMC Convoy in anticipation of whatever and they are heavily recruiting in Africa by paying more than Wagner.
    You say that almost as though you think it's a good thing ...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Impt scoop from @ChristopherJM : Ukraine is ready to discuss the future of Crimea if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula
    https://twitter.com/felschwartz/status/1643711244019302400

    Aksyonov, the head of the Crimean Republic, has started his own Wagner-lite organisation called PMC Convoy in anticipation of whatever and they are heavily recruiting in Africa by paying more than Wagner.
    Do the Africans have to bring their own guns and ammo with them, as the Russians don’t have enough?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Oh!

    Indyref2 never happened, and for years there have been questions about what became of £600,000 that was donated to the SNP’s campaign fund. Some donors demanded their money back when the referendum turned out to be a pipe dream, and it has now been suggested the money may have been spent elsewhere.

    “For the past two years, Operation Branchform, the Police Scotland investigation into SNP finances, has been looking into the circumstances.

    “Police are now understood to be concentrating on around five transactions made while Mr Murrell was still chief executive of the party, including at least one that involved the purchase of a car.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/04/05/indyref2-peter-murrell-nicola-sturgeon-snp-scotland-police/
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,904
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Impt scoop from @ChristopherJM : Ukraine is ready to discuss the future of Crimea if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula
    https://twitter.com/felschwartz/status/1643711244019302400

    Allow Russia to buy Crimea? It's been suggested before.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Impt scoop from @ChristopherJM : Ukraine is ready to discuss the future of Crimea if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula
    https://twitter.com/felschwartz/status/1643711244019302400

    Aksyonov, the head of the Crimean Republic, has started his own Wagner-lite organisation called PMC Convoy in anticipation of whatever and they are heavily recruiting in Africa by paying more than Wagner.
    Just another bunch of thugs fishing in the same pool.
    https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/03/24/7394933/

    More of a problem for post conflict Russia, probably.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,344

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Impt scoop from @ChristopherJM : Ukraine is ready to discuss the future of Crimea if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula
    https://twitter.com/felschwartz/status/1643711244019302400

    Allow Russia to buy Crimea? It's been suggested before.
    300 Billion
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Impt scoop from @ChristopherJM : Ukraine is ready to discuss the future of Crimea if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula
    https://twitter.com/felschwartz/status/1643711244019302400

    Allow Russia to buy Crimea? It's been suggested before.
    300 Billion
    Euros or rubles?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Roger said:

    OT. After the defenestration of Maggie John Sergent (I think) said of Ted Heath it brings to mind the old Spanish saying 'If you sit by the river long enough the body of your enemy will come floating by'. It then became one of my favourite sayings which I have used on here before now but oddly I'd never heard it used anywhere else until this morning....

    .....Nick Robinson used it in relation to the Sturgeon affair and attributed it to Sun Tzu. If correct it's quite disappointing.

    The charm of the Spanish peasant sitting by the river is a big part of what makes it work. A Chinese philosopher General of the pre-Ming dynasty is something altogether less attractive

    Deffo Sun Tzu, but he may just have been quoting an exisiting saying.

    I'm not sure Alex Salmond gives a damn, though, as he sits patiently by the Clyde....
    He would more likely be by the Dee or the Don
    And quiet flows the Don, with Sturgeon's career in it...
    We need more Sholokov based witticisms and fewer low intellectual wattage puns.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Impt scoop from @ChristopherJM : Ukraine is ready to discuss the future of Crimea if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula
    https://twitter.com/felschwartz/status/1643711244019302400

    Allow Russia to buy Crimea? It's been suggested before.
    300 Billion
    $300bn, per year.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,577
    malcolmg said:

    Roger said:

    OT. After the defenestration of Maggie John Sergent (I think) said of Ted Heath it brings to mind the old Spanish saying 'If you sit by the river long enough the body of your enemy will come floating by'. It then became one of my favourite sayings which I have used on here before now but oddly I'd never heard it used anywhere else until this morning....

    .....Nick Robinson used it in relation to the Sturgeon affair and attributed it to Sun Tzu. If correct it's quite disappointing.

    The charm of the Spanish peasant sitting by the river is a big part of what makes it work. A Chinese philosopher General of the pre-Ming dynasty is something altogether less attractive

    Deffo Sun Tzu, but he may just have been quoting an exisiting saying.

    I'm not sure Alex Salmond gives a damn, though, as he sits patiently by the Clyde....
    He would more likely be by the Dee or the Don
    Thought he might be watching out for ferries being launched....
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Impt scoop from @ChristopherJM : Ukraine is ready to discuss the future of Crimea if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula
    https://twitter.com/felschwartz/status/1643711244019302400

    Allow Russia to buy Crimea? It's been suggested before.
    300 Billion
    $300bn, per year.
    I would want all the money up front from Putin.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,384
    Nigelb said:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1643894227846266880

    Sadiq Khan enemies, please explain.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084

    Nigelb said:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1643894227846266880

    Sadiq Khan enemies, please explain.
    His enemies dare not say anything because otherwise they will experience The Wrath of Khan.
    On that score, this appears to be genuine ?

    Inauguration ceremony of Bundeswehr Space Command.
    https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1643905623069736961
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586

    malcolmg said:

    Roger said:

    OT. After the defenestration of Maggie John Sergent (I think) said of Ted Heath it brings to mind the old Spanish saying 'If you sit by the river long enough the body of your enemy will come floating by'. It then became one of my favourite sayings which I have used on here before now but oddly I'd never heard it used anywhere else until this morning....

    .....Nick Robinson used it in relation to the Sturgeon affair and attributed it to Sun Tzu. If correct it's quite disappointing.

    The charm of the Spanish peasant sitting by the river is a big part of what makes it work. A Chinese philosopher General of the pre-Ming dynasty is something altogether less attractive

    Deffo Sun Tzu, but he may just have been quoting an exisiting saying.

    I'm not sure Alex Salmond gives a damn, though, as he sits patiently by the Clyde....
    He would more likely be by the Dee or the Don
    Thought he might be watching out for ferries being launched....
    He’s in Scotland, of course there won’t be ferries launching any time soon.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,904

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Impt scoop from @ChristopherJM : Ukraine is ready to discuss the future of Crimea if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula
    https://twitter.com/felschwartz/status/1643711244019302400

    Allow Russia to buy Crimea? It's been suggested before.
    300 Billion
    $300bn, per year.
    I would want all the money up front from Putin.
    $200 billion and Russia can probably pay on the nail since it started with $400 billion foreign exchange reserves and has since sold a lot of oil and can't buy anything owing to sanctions.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1643894227846266880

    Sadiq Khan enemies, please explain.
    His enemies dare not say anything because otherwise they will experience The Wrath of Khan.
    On that score, this appears to be genuine ?

    Inauguration ceremony of Bundeswehr Space Command.
    https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1643905623069736961
    Wow.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm a long term lurker. My partner complains I read your site far too often. Anyway, I'd like to just call out Foxy. Anyone with that name who wants freer range for chickens should be mistrusted.

    Hi Horse_B
    I think someone already did that joke.

    And I'll prempt the Russian troll accusations too. People who are anti vaxxers are fools. Putin is a bad man.
    Welcome. You don't sound (write) like anyone else on here (yet) so I have no comment on this.

    However, I would say that people who don't like the government telling them what chemicals, chemicals which have been developed at an unprecedented rapid rate, they must put inside their body are not necessarily fools.

    And I know, seat belts.
    Any evidence for that? Simply not true. All testing was completed on the vaccines as per any other.
    It was a massively contracted process. The authorities bragged about this. It is a feature not a bug. As far as you are concerned, right?
    Accelerated.
    But every phase of testing was undergone, nonetheless.

    Clinical trial normally take much, much longer not because they're designed that way, but because recruiting volunteers, and producing meaningful results takes a very long time.
    In a pandemic, the condition mean that it's both much easier to find volunteers, and the results form the trial happen far more quickly.

    You're implying that corners were cut.
    That's really not the case.
    I didn't imply anything. You inferred from my post.

    I just said that the process was hugely contracted. I mean accelerated.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    edited April 2023
    Off Topic

    After a few days in Northern Ireland I am back in the office and I have stopped for Popmaster. Ken Bruce rocks! Greatest Hits Radio rocks!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,303
    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Impt scoop from @ChristopherJM : Ukraine is ready to discuss the future of Crimea if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula
    https://twitter.com/felschwartz/status/1643711244019302400

    Aksyonov, the head of the Crimean Republic, has started his own Wagner-lite organisation called PMC Convoy in anticipation of whatever and they are heavily recruiting in Africa by paying more than Wagner.
    Wagner should strike then. Or work-to-rule. Just do the very basics of meting out death and destruction until their employer at least agrees to come to the table and talk about an improved package.
    No war crimes after hours or weekends until management agrees to negotiate?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Impt scoop from @ChristopherJM : Ukraine is ready to discuss the future of Crimea if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula
    https://twitter.com/felschwartz/status/1643711244019302400

    Aksyonov, the head of the Crimean Republic, has started his own Wagner-lite organisation called PMC Convoy in anticipation of whatever and they are heavily recruiting in Africa by paying more than Wagner.
    Wagner should strike then. Or work-to-rule. Just do the very basics of meting out death and destruction until their employer at least agrees to come to the table and talk about an improved package.
    Absolutely. Join a Union!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416

    Nigelb said:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1643894227846266880

    Sadiq Khan enemies, please explain.
    His enemies dare not say anything because otherwise they will experience The Wrath of Khan.
    That pun is positively sinful. You should go to a Kirk to expiate your sin.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,196

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Impt scoop from @ChristopherJM : Ukraine is ready to discuss the future of Crimea if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula
    https://twitter.com/felschwartz/status/1643711244019302400

    Aksyonov, the head of the Crimean Republic, has started his own Wagner-lite organisation called PMC Convoy in anticipation of whatever and they are heavily recruiting in Africa by paying more than Wagner.
    Wagner should strike then. Or work-to-rule. Just do the very basics of meting out death and destruction until their employer at least agrees to come to the table and talk about an improved package.
    No war crimes after hours or weekends until management agrees to negotiate?
    That's how I'd kick things off, yes. Then escalate if necessary.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Impt scoop from @ChristopherJM : Ukraine is ready to discuss the future of Crimea if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula
    https://twitter.com/felschwartz/status/1643711244019302400

    Aksyonov, the head of the Crimean Republic, has started his own Wagner-lite organisation called PMC Convoy in anticipation of whatever and they are heavily recruiting in Africa by paying more than Wagner.
    Wagner should strike then. Or work-to-rule. Just do the very basics of meting out death and destruction until their employer at least agrees to come to the table and talk about an improved package.
    Absolutely. Join a Union!
    I think their problem is that Ukraine left the Union...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416
    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Impt scoop from @ChristopherJM : Ukraine is ready to discuss the future of Crimea if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula
    https://twitter.com/felschwartz/status/1643711244019302400

    Aksyonov, the head of the Crimean Republic, has started his own Wagner-lite organisation called PMC Convoy in anticipation of whatever and they are heavily recruiting in Africa by paying more than Wagner.
    Wagner should strike then. Or work-to-rule. Just do the very basics of meting out death and destruction until their employer at least agrees to come to the table and talk about an improved package.
    I thought the idea of mercenaries was that if they're not happy with their wages instead they visit death and destruction on their employers?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,934
    Sandpit said:

    Oh!

    Indyref2 never happened, and for years there have been questions about what became of £600,000 that was donated to the SNP’s campaign fund. Some donors demanded their money back when the referendum turned out to be a pipe dream, and it has now been suggested the money may have been spent elsewhere.

    “For the past two years, Operation Branchform, the Police Scotland investigation into SNP finances, has been looking into the circumstances.

    “Police are now understood to be concentrating on around five transactions made while Mr Murrell was still chief executive of the party, including at least one that involved the purchase of a car.”


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/04/05/indyref2-peter-murrell-nicola-sturgeon-snp-scotland-police/

    Is that why Sturgeon is learning to drive?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Impt scoop from @ChristopherJM : Ukraine is ready to discuss the future of Crimea if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula
    https://twitter.com/felschwartz/status/1643711244019302400

    Allow Russia to buy Crimea? It's been suggested before.
    300 Billion
    $300bn, per year.
    I would want all the money up front from Putin.
    I think the idea is it would go to Ukraine instead of yourself. Nice try though.
    The teacher pension is just not what it was.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Impt scoop from @ChristopherJM : Ukraine is ready to discuss the future of Crimea if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula
    https://twitter.com/felschwartz/status/1643711244019302400

    Aksyonov, the head of the Crimean Republic, has started his own Wagner-lite organisation called PMC Convoy in anticipation of whatever and they are heavily recruiting in Africa by paying more than Wagner.
    Wagner should strike then. Or work-to-rule. Just do the very basics of meting out death and destruction until their employer at least agrees to come to the table and talk about an improved package.
    I thought the idea of mercenaries was that if they're not happy with their wages instead they visit death and destruction on their employers?
    That would be a shame. Someone should tell them that while they are on $100/day, the new African guys are on $200/day.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,852
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1643894227846266880

    Sadiq Khan enemies, please explain.
    His enemies dare not say anything because otherwise they will experience The Wrath of Khan.
    That pun is positively sinful. You should go to a Kirk to expiate your sin.
    A PBpedant wonders, is that a Presbyterian kirk? For expiation? Surely that role was assigned to JC?

    Sitting on the stool of *repentance*, at least in the old days, that was a different matter, of course.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stool_of_repentance#/media/File:Repentance_stool_and_branks,_Holy_Trinity_Church,_St._Andrews.JPG
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm a long term lurker. My partner complains I read your site far too often. Anyway, I'd like to just call out Foxy. Anyone with that name who wants freer range for chickens should be mistrusted.

    Hi Horse_B
    I think someone already did that joke.

    And I'll prempt the Russian troll accusations too. People who are anti vaxxers are fools. Putin is a bad man.
    Welcome. You don't sound (write) like anyone else on here (yet) so I have no comment on this.

    However, I would say that people who don't like the government telling them what chemicals, chemicals which have been developed at an unprecedented rapid rate, they must put inside their body are not necessarily fools.

    And I know, seat belts.
    Any evidence for that? Simply not true. All testing was completed on the vaccines as per any other.
    It was a massively contracted process. The authorities bragged about this. It is a feature not a bug. As far as you are concerned, right?
    Accelerated.
    But every phase of testing was undergone, nonetheless.

    Clinical trial normally take much, much longer not because they're designed that way, but because recruiting volunteers, and producing meaningful results takes a very long time.
    In a pandemic, the condition mean that it's both much easier to find volunteers, and the results form the trial happen far more quickly.

    You're implying that corners were cut.
    That's really not the case.
    I didn't imply anything. You inferred from my post.

    I just said that the process was hugely contracted. I mean accelerated.
    Your question about effects at 2 years, 5 years and 10 years is of interest. How long would you want a medication to be have tested before you would be prepared to take it?
    Its possible that some new medications and vaccines may cause harm, but in almost all cases it would be rapidly apparent. The idea of a ticking time bomb is much less likely.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084
    Thread.

    This a school basement in a Chernihiv village that Russians turned into a concentration camp. I visited it today. And I listened to survivors for hours, shocked, in disbelief. The media narratives do not do the justice to what happened there. 1/
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Mylovanov/status/1643614498807324674
  • On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited April 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Impt scoop from @ChristopherJM : Ukraine is ready to discuss the future of Crimea if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula
    https://twitter.com/felschwartz/status/1643711244019302400

    As long as that is their chosen offer to the practical difficulty and not an external imposition from allies I dont think many would be surprised they might do that, notwithstanding rhetoric.

    The difference from the 'peace' brigade suggestions would as Nigelb notes this would still presume on a Ukrainian military success, not a capitulation.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1643894227846266880

    Sadiq Khan enemies, please explain.
    His enemies dare not say anything because otherwise they will experience The Wrath of Khan.
    That pun is positively sinful. You should go to a Kirk to expiate your sin.
    A PBpedant wonders, is that a Presbyterian kirk? For expiation? Surely that role was assigned to JC?

    Sitting on the stool of *repentance*, at least in the old days, that was a different matter, of course.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stool_of_repentance#/media/File:Repentance_stool_and_branks,_Holy_Trinity_Church,_St._Andrews.JPG
    From the article that photo appears in:

    An alternative to, or commutation of, the stool of repentance was payment of buttock mail.

    What a name.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,805
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm a long term lurker. My partner complains I read your site far too often. Anyway, I'd like to just call out Foxy. Anyone with that name who wants freer range for chickens should be mistrusted.

    Hi Horse_B
    I think someone already did that joke.

    And I'll prempt the Russian troll accusations too. People who are anti vaxxers are fools. Putin is a bad man.
    Welcome. You don't sound (write) like anyone else on here (yet) so I have no comment on this.

    However, I would say that people who don't like the government telling them what chemicals, chemicals which have been developed at an unprecedented rapid rate, they must put inside their body are not necessarily fools.

    And I know, seat belts.
    Any evidence for that? Simply not true. All testing was completed on the vaccines as per any other.
    It was a massively contracted process. The authorities bragged about this. It is a feature not a bug. As far as you are concerned, right?
    Accelerated.
    But every phase of testing was undergone, nonetheless.

    Clinical trial normally take much, much longer not because they're designed that way, but because recruiting volunteers, and producing meaningful results takes a very long time.
    In a pandemic, the condition mean that it's both much easier to find volunteers, and the results form the trial happen far more quickly.

    You're implying that corners were cut.
    That's really not the case.
    I didn't imply anything. You inferred from my post.

    I just said that the process was hugely contracted. I mean accelerated.
    I was once in a rather drunken and aggressive argument in a poorly arranged queue at a taxi rank around midnight, in Durham. "What are you inferring?", the other fella asked, snarling. Perhaps unwisely, I replied "I'm inferring that you don't know the difference between inference and implication." Fortunately, this was not countered with a punch in the face but a weary reply of "eh? you fuckin' ponce", and the incident petered out.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Nigelb said:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1643894227846266880

    Wow. What brought that about? I thought Rishi was having a relatively good time of it. Boris on TV, voters flee?
    A more successful brexit deal in NI not considered a plus in the capital?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373

    I'm a long term lurker. My partner complains I read your site far too often. Anyway, I'd like to just call out Foxy. Anyone with that name who wants freer range for chickens should be mistrusted.

    Welcome back Moonrabbit.
    Ooh, good shout!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,852
    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1643894227846266880

    Sadiq Khan enemies, please explain.
    His enemies dare not say anything because otherwise they will experience The Wrath of Khan.
    That pun is positively sinful. You should go to a Kirk to expiate your sin.
    A PBpedant wonders, is that a Presbyterian kirk? For expiation? Surely that role was assigned to JC?

    Sitting on the stool of *repentance*, at least in the old days, that was a different matter, of course.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stool_of_repentance#/media/File:Repentance_stool_and_branks,_Holy_Trinity_Church,_St._Andrews.JPG
    From the article that photo appears in:

    An alternative to, or commutation of, the stool of repentance was payment of buttock mail.

    What a name.
    Which would usually go towards supporting the poor of the parish.

    Intreresting idea. HMRC oir the local authority charging people extra tax in lieu of public repentance.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,263

    Roger said:

    (snip)

    Testing

    As PB's relevant expert, I can definitively say that that is, indeed, a bird.
    Question - do you watch birds sitting down?

    If so, you might be... an Armchair Birdwatcher.
    Or Mark Oaten?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm a long term lurker. My partner complains I read your site far too often. Anyway, I'd like to just call out Foxy. Anyone with that name who wants freer range for chickens should be mistrusted.

    Hi Horse_B
    I think someone already did that joke.

    And I'll prempt the Russian troll accusations too. People who are anti vaxxers are fools. Putin is a bad man.
    Welcome. You don't sound (write) like anyone else on here (yet) so I have no comment on this.

    However, I would say that people who don't like the government telling them what chemicals, chemicals which have been developed at an unprecedented rapid rate, they must put inside their body are not necessarily fools.

    And I know, seat belts.
    Any evidence for that? Simply not true. All testing was completed on the vaccines as per any other.
    It was a massively contracted process. The authorities bragged about this. It is a feature not a bug. As far as you are concerned, right?
    Accelerated.
    But every phase of testing was undergone, nonetheless.

    Clinical trial normally take much, much longer not because they're designed that way, but because recruiting volunteers, and producing meaningful results takes a very long time.
    In a pandemic, the condition mean that it's both much easier to find volunteers, and the results form the trial happen far more quickly.

    You're implying that corners were cut.
    That's really not the case.
    I didn't imply anything. You inferred from my post.

    I just said that the process was hugely contracted. I mean accelerated.
    That depends what is meant by accelerated though. Less downtime between stages or running things concurrently etc is accelerated but no less rigorous for example.

    I think contracted gives the impression of cutting corners, whereas accelerated might just mean same thing but faster.

    More efficient might be a better way of putting it, unless arguing the faster process was achieved by trimming times or steps.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416
    So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373

    I'm a long term lurker. My partner complains I read your site far too often. Anyway, I'd like to just call out Foxy. Anyone with that name who wants freer range for chickens should be mistrusted.

    So do you have skin in this game? Maybe a Rabbit pelt.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Impt scoop from @ChristopherJM : Ukraine is ready to discuss the future of Crimea if its forces reach the border of the Russian-occupied peninsula
    https://twitter.com/felschwartz/status/1643711244019302400

    Aksyonov, the head of the Crimean Republic, has started his own Wagner-lite organisation called PMC Convoy in anticipation of whatever and they are heavily recruiting in Africa by paying more than Wagner.
    Wagner should strike then. Or work-to-rule. Just do the very basics of meting out death and destruction until their employer at least agrees to come to the table and talk about an improved package.
    No war crimes after hours or weekends until management agrees to negotiate?
    No warfare without healthcare.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084
    .

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm a long term lurker. My partner complains I read your site far too often. Anyway, I'd like to just call out Foxy. Anyone with that name who wants freer range for chickens should be mistrusted.

    Hi Horse_B
    I think someone already did that joke.

    And I'll prempt the Russian troll accusations too. People who are anti vaxxers are fools. Putin is a bad man.
    Welcome. You don't sound (write) like anyone else on here (yet) so I have no comment on this.

    However, I would say that people who don't like the government telling them what chemicals, chemicals which have been developed at an unprecedented rapid rate, they must put inside their body are not necessarily fools.

    And I know, seat belts.
    Any evidence for that? Simply not true. All testing was completed on the vaccines as per any other.
    It was a massively contracted process. The authorities bragged about this. It is a feature not a bug. As far as you are concerned, right?
    Accelerated.
    But every phase of testing was undergone, nonetheless.

    Clinical trial normally take much, much longer not because they're designed that way, but because recruiting volunteers, and producing meaningful results takes a very long time.
    In a pandemic, the condition mean that it's both much easier to find volunteers, and the results form the trial happen far more quickly.

    You're implying that corners were cut.
    That's really not the case.
    I didn't imply anything. You inferred from my post.

    I just said that the process was hugely contracted. I mean accelerated.
    Your question about effects at 2 years, 5 years and 10 years is of interest. How long would you want a medication to be have tested before you would be prepared to take it?
    Its possible that some new medications and vaccines may cause harm, but in almost all cases it would be rapidly apparent. The idea of a ticking time bomb is much less likely.
    The classic case is painkillers, though.
    Stuff we buy over the counter (ibuprofen for example) kills thousands every year.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,303
    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm a long term lurker. My partner complains I read your site far too often. Anyway, I'd like to just call out Foxy. Anyone with that name who wants freer range for chickens should be mistrusted.

    Hi Horse_B
    I think someone already did that joke.

    And I'll prempt the Russian troll accusations too. People who are anti vaxxers are fools. Putin is a bad man.
    Welcome. You don't sound (write) like anyone else on here (yet) so I have no comment on this.

    However, I would say that people who don't like the government telling them what chemicals, chemicals which have been developed at an unprecedented rapid rate, they must put inside their body are not necessarily fools.

    And I know, seat belts.
    Any evidence for that? Simply not true. All testing was completed on the vaccines as per any other.
    It was a massively contracted process. The authorities bragged about this. It is a feature not a bug. As far as you are concerned, right?
    Accelerated.
    But every phase of testing was undergone, nonetheless.

    Clinical trial normally take much, much longer not because they're designed that way, but because recruiting volunteers, and producing meaningful results takes a very long time.
    In a pandemic, the condition mean that it's both much easier to find volunteers, and the results form the trial happen far more quickly.

    You're implying that corners were cut.
    That's really not the case.
    I didn't imply anything. You inferred from my post.

    I just said that the process was hugely contracted. I mean accelerated.
    That depends what is meant by accelerated though. Less downtime between stages or running things concurrently etc is accelerated but no less rigorous for example.

    I think contracted gives the impression of cutting corners, whereas accelerated might just mean same thing but faster.

    More efficient might be a better way of putting it, unless arguing the faster process was achieved by trimming times or steps.
    More efficient. That depends one your measure of efficiency. It cost more.

    The British shipbuilding industry laughed at the American mass production of Liberty ships - "Ha, ha, look at how much that costs per ton". But forgot that this was about building ships in a ludicrously short period of time.

    When the manning levels were reduced, it turned out that you could build ships faster than the old methods *and* cheaper. Mind you, the American industry missed that one as well, mostly.
  • Back to our favourite topic, trans stuff. Looks like Nike are facing a bit of a backlash over their new sports bra offering...

    https://twitter.com/search?q=#BoycottNike&src=trend_click&vertical=trends
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Nigelb said:

    Thread.

    This a school basement in a Chernihiv village that Russians turned into a concentration camp. I visited it today. And I listened to survivors for hours, shocked, in disbelief. The media narratives do not do the justice to what happened there. 1/
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Mylovanov/status/1643614498807324674

    Bloody hell.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,502
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1643894227846266880

    Sadiq Khan enemies, please explain.
    His enemies dare not say anything because otherwise they will experience The Wrath of Khan.
    That pun is positively sinful. You should go to a Kirk to expiate your sin.
    A PBpedant wonders, is that a Presbyterian kirk? For expiation? Surely that role was assigned to JC?

    Sitting on the stool of *repentance*, at least in the old days, that was a different matter, of course.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stool_of_repentance#/media/File:Repentance_stool_and_branks,_Holy_Trinity_Church,_St._Andrews.JPG
    JC is the only source of expiation in all Xtian traditions; the routes available vary, with most churches being fond of policing it in one form or another. This is not all bad. Humans like systems, and all forgiveness is kind.

    However, IMHO, dealing direct with the manufacturer, and bypassing all wholesalers and retailers (and quacks) works fine when it works. St Paul - much misunderstood - is this view's finest spokesman.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,455
    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1643894227846266880

    Sadiq Khan enemies, please explain.
    His enemies dare not say anything because otherwise they will experience The Wrath of Khan.
    That pun is positively sinful. You should go to a Kirk to expiate your sin.
    A PBpedant wonders, is that a Presbyterian kirk? For expiation? Surely that role was assigned to JC?

    Sitting on the stool of *repentance*, at least in the old days, that was a different matter, of course.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stool_of_repentance#/media/File:Repentance_stool_and_branks,_Holy_Trinity_Church,_St._Andrews.JPG
    From the article that photo appears in:

    An alternative to, or commutation of, the stool of repentance was payment of buttock mail.

    What a name.
    Which would usually go towards supporting the poor of the parish.

    Intreresting idea. HMRC oir the local authority charging people extra tax in lieu of public repentance.
    I am pretty sure the Catholics already tried that. Minus the going to the poor of the parish.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,084

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1643894227846266880

    Sadiq Khan enemies, please explain.
    His enemies dare not say anything because otherwise they will experience The Wrath of Khan.
    On that score, this appears to be genuine ?

    Inauguration ceremony of Bundeswehr Space Command.
    https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1643905623069736961
    Wow.
    Thought you'd enjoy.
    They do realise one of the inspirations for the Empire ?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,502
    ydoethur said:

    So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.

    When the season, such as it is, runs from April - end September instead of basically May-August with a few extra days, what on earth can you expect.

    While the planet and the sun ought to adjust itself to cricket's demands (obvs), the indications are that it isn't going to until global warming is substantially advanced.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    ydoethur said:

    So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.

    What do you expect - its April. Season should start in May like the good old days!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,852

    Back to our favourite topic, trans stuff. Looks like Nike are facing a bit of a backlash over their new sports bra offering...

    https://twitter.com/search?q=#BoycottNike&src=trend_click&vertical=trends

    But the complaints seem to be from the older generation and/or obvious wokehunters. It's the younger generation that count for Nike.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Nigelb said:

    Thread.

    This a school basement in a Chernihiv village that Russians turned into a concentration camp. I visited it today. And I listened to survivors for hours, shocked, in disbelief. The media narratives do not do the justice to what happened there. 1/
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Mylovanov/status/1643614498807324674

    That’s utterly horrific.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Nigelb said:

    .

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm a long term lurker. My partner complains I read your site far too often. Anyway, I'd like to just call out Foxy. Anyone with that name who wants freer range for chickens should be mistrusted.

    Hi Horse_B
    I think someone already did that joke.

    And I'll prempt the Russian troll accusations too. People who are anti vaxxers are fools. Putin is a bad man.
    Welcome. You don't sound (write) like anyone else on here (yet) so I have no comment on this.

    However, I would say that people who don't like the government telling them what chemicals, chemicals which have been developed at an unprecedented rapid rate, they must put inside their body are not necessarily fools.

    And I know, seat belts.
    Any evidence for that? Simply not true. All testing was completed on the vaccines as per any other.
    It was a massively contracted process. The authorities bragged about this. It is a feature not a bug. As far as you are concerned, right?
    Accelerated.
    But every phase of testing was undergone, nonetheless.

    Clinical trial normally take much, much longer not because they're designed that way, but because recruiting volunteers, and producing meaningful results takes a very long time.
    In a pandemic, the condition mean that it's both much easier to find volunteers, and the results form the trial happen far more quickly.

    You're implying that corners were cut.
    That's really not the case.
    I didn't imply anything. You inferred from my post.

    I just said that the process was hugely contracted. I mean accelerated.
    Your question about effects at 2 years, 5 years and 10 years is of interest. How long would you want a medication to be have tested before you would be prepared to take it?
    Its possible that some new medications and vaccines may cause harm, but in almost all cases it would be rapidly apparent. The idea of a ticking time bomb is much less likely.
    The classic case is painkillers, though.
    Stuff we buy over the counter (ibuprofen for example) kills thousands every year.
    Well alcohol and tobacco would never make it to market either - old medicines get a free pass. I don't dispute that there can be effects at long time scales, but there will never be picked up in clinical trials (or at best after approval). The whole accelerated/cut corners is just classic anti-vaxx bullshit from anti-vaxxers and winds me up.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,440

    ydoethur said:

    So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.

    What do you expect - its April. Season should start in May like the good old days!
    At least they had some play. Other counties, eg Somerset have had none.

    Apologies for the late good morning, but BT have only done half a job of upgrading our internet. The engineers have set everything up, but the new router hasn’t arrived.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,852
    ydoethur said:

    Feeling a bit emotional today. First cricket match since my Dad died. I've only ever been to two matches without him, and we always used to ring up to slag off Gloucestershire's batsmen discuss the day's play during matches.

    It is, if I might make the comment, indeed disconcerting. For me it was whenever some book came out about one of my dad's old ships in the Navy, and it took me a while to stop thinking 'oh, I'll get that for his birthday/Christmas'.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    ydoethur said:

    So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.

    Somerset-Warks have given up for the day already.
  • On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416
    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.

    Somerset-Warks have given up for the day already.
    Because of the weather or in acknowledgement this isn't a year either will win the title?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    Nigelb said:

    .

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm a long term lurker. My partner complains I read your site far too often. Anyway, I'd like to just call out Foxy. Anyone with that name who wants freer range for chickens should be mistrusted.

    Hi Horse_B
    I think someone already did that joke.

    And I'll prempt the Russian troll accusations too. People who are anti vaxxers are fools. Putin is a bad man.
    Welcome. You don't sound (write) like anyone else on here (yet) so I have no comment on this.

    However, I would say that people who don't like the government telling them what chemicals, chemicals which have been developed at an unprecedented rapid rate, they must put inside their body are not necessarily fools.

    And I know, seat belts.
    Any evidence for that? Simply not true. All testing was completed on the vaccines as per any other.
    It was a massively contracted process. The authorities bragged about this. It is a feature not a bug. As far as you are concerned, right?
    Accelerated.
    But every phase of testing was undergone, nonetheless.

    Clinical trial normally take much, much longer not because they're designed that way, but because recruiting volunteers, and producing meaningful results takes a very long time.
    In a pandemic, the condition mean that it's both much easier to find volunteers, and the results form the trial happen far more quickly.

    You're implying that corners were cut.
    That's really not the case.
    I didn't imply anything. You inferred from my post.

    I just said that the process was hugely contracted. I mean accelerated.
    Your question about effects at 2 years, 5 years and 10 years is of interest. How long would you want a medication to be have tested before you would be prepared to take it?
    Its possible that some new medications and vaccines may cause harm, but in almost all cases it would be rapidly apparent. The idea of a ticking time bomb is much less likely.
    The classic case is painkillers, though.
    Stuff we buy over the counter (ibuprofen for example) kills thousands every year.
    I am now wildly allergic to the stuff. Definitely had no problem taking it years back, then started getting a rash which I didn't attribute to it, then once in hospital with a cricketing injury had a full on anaphylactic incident!
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.

    Somerset-Warks have given up for the day already.
    Because of the weather or in acknowledgement this isn't a year either will win the title?
    Waterlogged outfield after heavy rain overnight and suggestions on Twitter that there are drainage problems.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,440

    It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.

    What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.

    One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.

    If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?

    Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.

    Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.

    Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
    The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.

    The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?

    When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.

    No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
    There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.

    A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
    Did the order actually arrive? And was it actually suitable for use?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,192

    It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.

    What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.

    One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.

    If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?

    I do suspect that many Conservative politicians think that receiving (and making) payments for vague services is what 'business' and 'trade' is all about.
    Partly that, but also...

    You're a Conservative MP with a small majority who can read the polls. Even if the party recovers a bit, you will still be out on your ear. What's the sanction that stops you making out while you still can?
    Fair point but ...

    ... getting caught at illegal money grubbing rather tarnishes the reputation.

    And while being a former MP might be good for future earnings being a disgraced former MP really wont be.
    Morning all.

    I can't recall a close parallel - except perhaps Cash for Influence.

    I pointed out the analogy to Tim Smith.

    Cash for influence was Despatches 2010, where Geoff the Hoon, Patricia Hewitt, Stephen Byers and Margaret Moran were caught 'offering to use their influential positions for reward'. Hoon and Byers heavily disciplined (multiyear bans from Parliament), Moran I am not sure, and Hewitt was NFA and just taken back as a Govt adviser.

    Any more similars?
  • Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm a long term lurker. My partner complains I read your site far too often. Anyway, I'd like to just call out Foxy. Anyone with that name who wants freer range for chickens should be mistrusted.

    Hi Horse_B
    I think someone already did that joke.

    And I'll prempt the Russian troll accusations too. People who are anti vaxxers are fools. Putin is a bad man.
    Welcome. You don't sound (write) like anyone else on here (yet) so I have no comment on this.

    However, I would say that people who don't like the government telling them what chemicals, chemicals which have been developed at an unprecedented rapid rate, they must put inside their body are not necessarily fools.

    And I know, seat belts.
    Any evidence for that? Simply not true. All testing was completed on the vaccines as per any other.
    It was a massively contracted process. The authorities bragged about this. It is a feature not a bug. As far as you are concerned, right?
    Accelerated.
    But every phase of testing was undergone, nonetheless.

    Clinical trial normally take much, much longer not because they're designed that way, but because recruiting volunteers, and producing meaningful results takes a very long time.
    In a pandemic, the condition mean that it's both much easier to find volunteers, and the results form the trial happen far more quickly.

    You're implying that corners were cut.
    That's really not the case.
    I didn't imply anything. You inferred from my post.

    I just said that the process was hugely contracted. I mean accelerated.
    I was once in a rather drunken and aggressive argument in a poorly arranged queue at a taxi rank around midnight, in Durham. "What are you inferring?", the other fella asked, snarling. Perhaps unwisely, I replied "I'm inferring that you don't know the difference between inference and implication." Fortunately, this was not countered with a punch in the face but a weary reply of "eh? you fuckin' ponce", and the incident petered out.
    Talking of ponces, two incidents within a mile on the Sarfend Arterial Road.
    1. Ponce in a BMW 430d takes umbridge at a Ford Ka on the M25 roundabout. Floors it to weave past crossing lanes, almost bins it, then has to come to a screeching halt alongside said Ka at the lights. Then nearly bins it again flooring it down the slip road, only to then have to drop anchor to immediately take the Upminster exit
    2. Ponce in an ancient Mercedes G-Wagon sitting at 55pmh in lane 2 (of 2). Guy in an old Astra undertakes. G-Wagon floors it to re-overtake, then pulls in front and slows down in front of Astra who then overtakes. Rinse, repeat.

    What is the point? Other than advertising their possession of a micro-penis to the rest of us?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,250

    ydoethur said:

    So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.

    What do you expect - its April. Season should start in May like the good old days!
    At least they had some play. Other counties, eg Somerset have had none.

    Apologies for the late good morning, but BT have only done half a job of upgrading our internet. The engineers have set everything up, but the new router hasn’t arrived.
    That's interesting. Our new router from BT hasn't arrived either (after five weeks). Just an empty-handed engineer who was easily persuaded that I could install it myself if only I could get my hands on it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    ...

    It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.

    What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.

    One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.

    If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?

    Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.

    Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.

    Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
    The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.

    The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?

    When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.

    No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
    There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.

    A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
    Did the order actually arrive? And was it actually suitable for use?
    I believe it did, and there was no mention that it failed any specification tests. So let's assume it was all good. We the taxpayer still spent on a 100% mark up for a minimum of effort.
  • Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Thread.

    This a school basement in a Chernihiv village that Russians turned into a concentration camp. I visited it today. And I listened to survivors for hours, shocked, in disbelief. The media narratives do not do the justice to what happened there. 1/
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Mylovanov/status/1643614498807324674

    That’s utterly horrific.
    Only a few days until Ivan in Moscow comes back on to tell us how all the poor buggers in that basement were actually nazis actually.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    ...

    It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.

    What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.

    One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.

    If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?

    Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.

    Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.

    Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
    The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.

    The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?

    When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.

    No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
    There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.

    A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
    Did the order actually arrive? And was it actually suitable for use?
    I believe it did, and there was no mention that it failed any specification tests. So let's assume it was all good. We the taxpayer still spent on a 100% mark up for a minimum of effort.
    Yes, you do wonder why no-one in the NHS etc purchasing team couldn't have just placed the order.

    I hope this stuff comes out in the enquiries. There may be reasonable answers (possible - don't laugh at the back) but it would be good to hear them.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    Mortimer said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm a long term lurker. My partner complains I read your site far too often. Anyway, I'd like to just call out Foxy. Anyone with that name who wants freer range for chickens should be mistrusted.

    Hi Horse_B
    I think someone already did that joke.

    And I'll prempt the Russian troll accusations too. People who are anti vaxxers are fools. Putin is a bad man.
    Welcome. You don't sound (write) like anyone else on here (yet) so I have no comment on this.

    However, I would say that people who don't like the government telling them what chemicals, chemicals which have been developed at an unprecedented rapid rate, they must put inside their body are not necessarily fools.

    And I know, seat belts.
    Any evidence for that? Simply not true. All testing was completed on the vaccines as per any other.
    It was a massively contracted process. The authorities bragged about this. It is a feature not a bug. As far as you are concerned, right?
    Accelerated.
    But every phase of testing was undergone, nonetheless.

    Clinical trial normally take much, much longer not because they're designed that way, but because recruiting volunteers, and producing meaningful results takes a very long time.
    In a pandemic, the condition mean that it's both much easier to find volunteers, and the results form the trial happen far more quickly.

    You're implying that corners were cut.
    That's really not the case.
    I didn't imply anything. You inferred from my post.

    I just said that the process was hugely contracted. I mean accelerated.
    Your question about effects at 2 years, 5 years and 10 years is of interest. How long would you want a medication to be have tested before you would be prepared to take it?
    Its possible that some new medications and vaccines may cause harm, but in almost all cases it would be rapidly apparent. The idea of a ticking time bomb is much less likely.
    The classic case is painkillers, though.
    Stuff we buy over the counter (ibuprofen for example) kills thousands every year.
    I am now wildly allergic to the stuff. Definitely had no problem taking it years back, then started getting a rash which I didn't attribute to it, then once in hospital with a cricketing injury had a full on anaphylactic incident!
    What's happening at the Hawthorns Mortimer? And talking of medication, it is looking very like we could be doing a Hereford United on steroids! The biggest football club to fully fail to date? The Midlands Combination beckons West Bromwich FC.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    edited April 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Thread.

    This a school basement in a Chernihiv village that Russians turned into a concentration camp. I visited it today. And I listened to survivors for hours, shocked, in disbelief. The media narratives do not do the justice to what happened there. 1/
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Mylovanov/status/1643614498807324674

    That’s utterly horrific.
    Some friends just returned from Ukraine a couple of days ago. This horror is the tip of the iceberg. The thuggish brutality against the Ukrainian population is of a piece with the simply appalling way the Russian high command treats even its own soldiers. The complete contempt for human life is utterly sickening. The Russians don´t necessarily medievac their wounded, so they often die, even with survivable injuries, and bodies of Russian soldiers are left to rot. Apparently the smell of death is discernible even some distance from the front line. Even apart from the war crimes being committed against Ukrainians, the Russian people should place their own commanders on trial for what they have done to their own troops.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,196
    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm a long term lurker. My partner complains I read your site far too often. Anyway, I'd like to just call out Foxy. Anyone with that name who wants freer range for chickens should be mistrusted.

    Hi Horse_B
    I think someone already did that joke.

    And I'll prempt the Russian troll accusations too. People who are anti vaxxers are fools. Putin is a bad man.
    Welcome. You don't sound (write) like anyone else on here (yet) so I have no comment on this.

    However, I would say that people who don't like the government telling them what chemicals, chemicals which have been developed at an unprecedented rapid rate, they must put inside their body are not necessarily fools.

    And I know, seat belts.
    Any evidence for that? Simply not true. All testing was completed on the vaccines as per any other.
    It was a massively contracted process. The authorities bragged about this. It is a feature not a bug. As far as you are concerned, right?
    Accelerated.
    But every phase of testing was undergone, nonetheless.

    Clinical trial normally take much, much longer not because they're designed that way, but because recruiting volunteers, and producing meaningful results takes a very long time.
    In a pandemic, the condition mean that it's both much easier to find volunteers, and the results form the trial happen far more quickly.

    You're implying that corners were cut.
    That's really not the case.
    I didn't imply anything. You inferred from my post.

    I just said that the process was hugely contracted. I mean accelerated.
    I was once in a rather drunken and aggressive argument in a poorly arranged queue at a taxi rank around midnight, in Durham. "What are you inferring?", the other fella asked, snarling. Perhaps unwisely, I replied "I'm inferring that you don't know the difference between inference and implication." Fortunately, this was not countered with a punch in the face but a weary reply of "eh? you fuckin' ponce", and the incident petered out.
    Was it TOPPING?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    ...

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm a long term lurker. My partner complains I read your site far too often. Anyway, I'd like to just call out Foxy. Anyone with that name who wants freer range for chickens should be mistrusted.

    Hi Horse_B
    I think someone already did that joke.

    And I'll prempt the Russian troll accusations too. People who are anti vaxxers are fools. Putin is a bad man.
    Welcome. You don't sound (write) like anyone else on here (yet) so I have no comment on this.

    However, I would say that people who don't like the government telling them what chemicals, chemicals which have been developed at an unprecedented rapid rate, they must put inside their body are not necessarily fools.

    And I know, seat belts.
    Any evidence for that? Simply not true. All testing was completed on the vaccines as per any other.
    It was a massively contracted process. The authorities bragged about this. It is a feature not a bug. As far as you are concerned, right?
    Accelerated.
    But every phase of testing was undergone, nonetheless.

    Clinical trial normally take much, much longer not because they're designed that way, but because recruiting volunteers, and producing meaningful results takes a very long time.
    In a pandemic, the condition mean that it's both much easier to find volunteers, and the results form the trial happen far more quickly.

    You're implying that corners were cut.
    That's really not the case.
    I didn't imply anything. You inferred from my post.

    I just said that the process was hugely contracted. I mean accelerated.
    I was once in a rather drunken and aggressive argument in a poorly arranged queue at a taxi rank around midnight, in Durham. "What are you inferring?", the other fella asked, snarling. Perhaps unwisely, I replied "I'm inferring that you don't know the difference between inference and implication." Fortunately, this was not countered with a punch in the face but a weary reply of "eh? you fuckin' ponce", and the incident petered out.
    Talking of ponces, two incidents within a mile on the Sarfend Arterial Road.
    1. Ponce in a BMW 430d takes umbridge at a Ford Ka on the M25 roundabout. Floors it to weave past crossing lanes, almost bins it, then has to come to a screeching halt alongside said Ka at the lights. Then nearly bins it again flooring it down the slip road, only to then have to drop anchor to immediately take the Upminster exit
    2. Ponce in an ancient Mercedes G-Wagon sitting at 55pmh in lane 2 (of 2). Guy in an old Astra undertakes. G-Wagon floors it to re-overtake, then pulls in front and slows down in front of Astra who then overtakes. Rinse, repeat.

    What is the point? Other than advertising their possession of a micro-penis to the rest of us?
    I though everyone in Southend drove a Capri.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,416
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Feeling a bit emotional today. First cricket match since my Dad died. I've only ever been to two matches without him, and we always used to ring up to slag off Gloucestershire's batsmen discuss the day's play during matches.

    It is, if I might make the comment, indeed disconcerting. For me it was whenever some book came out about one of my dad's old ships in the Navy, and it took me a while to stop thinking 'oh, I'll get that for his birthday/Christmas'.
    Today is the actual day of my Dad’s funeral. So I win the filial grief poker game?

    I am grateful to the Sturgeons for providing light entertainment



    I don't know whether 'like' is the right response, but I've given it a like anyway. Sympathies.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,669
    edited April 2023

    ...

    It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.

    What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.

    One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.

    If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?

    Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.

    Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.

    Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
    The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.

    The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?

    When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.

    No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
    There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.

    A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
    Did the order actually arrive? And was it actually suitable for use?
    I believe it did, and there was no mention that it failed any specification tests. So let's assume it was all good. We the taxpayer still spent on a 100% mark up for a minimum of effort.
    Yes, you do wonder why no-one in the NHS etc purchasing team couldn't have just placed the order.

    I hope this stuff comes out in the enquiries. There may be reasonable answers (possible - don't laugh at the back) but it would be good to hear them.
    I doubt Alibaba is on the list of their preferred suppliers.

    In theory she should have been liable if the order didn't turn up or was unsuitable (not exactly uncommon). An insurance premium of 100% might not be far off given the normal failure rate.

    The problem is not that this happened, it is what happened when the supplies turned out to be unsuitable. Was anyone pursued for costs?

    I don't think I'd have made a 50/50 gamble on a random Chinese supplier getting it right first time.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,440
    edited April 2023

    ydoethur said:

    So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.

    What do you expect - its April. Season should start in May like the good old days!
    At least they had some play. Other counties, eg Somerset have had none.

    Apologies for the late good morning, but BT have only done half a job of upgrading our internet. The engineers have set everything up, but the new router hasn’t arrived.
    That's interesting. Our new router from BT hasn't arrived either (after five weeks). Just an empty-handed engineer who was easily persuaded that I could install it myself if only I could get my hands on it.
    That’s alarming. We had quite a satisfactory service…..I don’t do gaming….. but were persuaded to upgrade when we rang BT to report a scam. “You’ll get the new router before the engineer comes” we were told. Now the engineer’s been and set up the new modem, and the old router no longer works so we’re having to manage on our phone’s hotspots.
    I rang BT service and was told by the helpful Indian lady that “there was a delay. Sorry! No, she didn’t know how long!”
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,344

    malcolmg said:

    Roger said:

    OT. After the defenestration of Maggie John Sergent (I think) said of Ted Heath it brings to mind the old Spanish saying 'If you sit by the river long enough the body of your enemy will come floating by'. It then became one of my favourite sayings which I have used on here before now but oddly I'd never heard it used anywhere else until this morning....

    .....Nick Robinson used it in relation to the Sturgeon affair and attributed it to Sun Tzu. If correct it's quite disappointing.

    The charm of the Spanish peasant sitting by the river is a big part of what makes it work. A Chinese philosopher General of the pre-Ming dynasty is something altogether less attractive

    Deffo Sun Tzu, but he may just have been quoting an exisiting saying.

    I'm not sure Alex Salmond gives a damn, though, as he sits patiently by the Clyde....
    He would more likely be by the Dee or the Don
    Thought he might be watching out for ferries being launched....
    Don't think he will be around to see those two launch unless it is to go to scrappie
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Feeling a bit emotional today. First cricket match since my Dad died. I've only ever been to two matches without him, and we always used to ring up to slag off Gloucestershire's batsmen discuss the day's play during matches.

    It is, if I might make the comment, indeed disconcerting. For me it was whenever some book came out about one of my dad's old ships in the Navy, and it took me a while to stop thinking 'oh, I'll get that for his birthday/Christmas'.
    Today is the actual day of my Dad’s funeral. So I win the filial grief poker game?

    I am grateful to the Sturgeons for providing light entertainment



    Respectful condolences.

    The White Hotel was an epic work:

    ‘A remarkable and original novel . . . there is no novel to my knowledge which resembles this in technique or ideas. It stands alone’ Graham Greene

    ‘Astonishing . . . A forthright sensuality mixed with a fine historical feeling for the nightmare moments in modern history, a dreamlike fluidity and quickness’ John Updike

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,934
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Feeling a bit emotional today. First cricket match since my Dad died. I've only ever been to two matches without him, and we always used to ring up to slag off Gloucestershire's batsmen discuss the day's play during matches.

    It is, if I might make the comment, indeed disconcerting. For me it was whenever some book came out about one of my dad's old ships in the Navy, and it took me a while to stop thinking 'oh, I'll get that for his birthday/Christmas'.
    Today is the actual day of my Dad’s funeral. So I win the filial grief poker game?

    I am grateful to the Sturgeons for providing light entertainment



    Hope everything goes well for you and yours, @Leon.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    ydoethur said:

    Feeling a bit emotional today. First cricket match since my Dad died. I've only ever been to two matches without him, and we always used to ring up to slag off Gloucestershire's batsmen discuss the day's play during matches.

    So sorry for your loss. Losing a loved parent is tough. Not sure what your taste in music is, but I find this thought provoking and lovely:

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BKHCIVzV38
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,996
    edited April 2023
    Cicero said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Thread.

    This a school basement in a Chernihiv village that Russians turned into a concentration camp. I visited it today. And I listened to survivors for hours, shocked, in disbelief. The media narratives do not do the justice to what happened there. 1/
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Mylovanov/status/1643614498807324674

    That’s utterly horrific.
    Some friends just returned from Ukraine a couple of days ago. This horror is the tip of the iceberg. The thuggish brutality against the Ukrainian population is of a piece with the simply appalling way the Russian high command treats even its own soldiers. The complete contempt for human life is utterly sickening. The Russians don´t necessarily medievac their wounded, so they often die, even with survivable injuries, and bodies of Russian soldiers are left to rot. Apparently the smell of death is discernible even some distance from the front line. Even apart from the war crimes being committed against Ukrainians, the Russian people should place their own commanders on trial for what they have done to their own troops.
    I know it’s been said many times before, but alongside the shenanigans yesterday at the UN it’s very clear the Russian state has become a pure organised crime outfit. A cartel. That’s the closest analogy I can think
    of.

    The lack of ideology, the sickening and often gratuitous violence, the blood feuds within the leadership, this willingness to flout any kind of norms for fun and then lie about it, the regular resorting to blackmail. Above all, the business model that looks to establish “turf” and layers of loyalty by creating financial dependency in other despotic leaders. It’s all exactly what cartels and mafia organisations do.

    The worst most amoral violence in the world takes place in places dominated by organised crime, but this is the first time a country as big as Russia has essentially turned into one big crime syndicate.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,041
    No local by-elections today- or next week. Further to the comments on candidates on May 4th there are some strange cases if you dig down into the local authorities. So for example Lab in Newbury have gone from 43 candidates last time to 15 this time; Conservatives are 16 short in Stockport; and Lib Dems have soared to 65 in Eat Yorkshire. Hours of fun!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,455

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,827

    ...

    It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.

    What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.

    One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.

    If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?

    Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.

    Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.

    Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
    The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.

    The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?

    When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.

    No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
    There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.

    A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
    Did the order actually arrive? And was it actually suitable for use?
    I believe it did, and there was no mention that it failed any specification tests. So let's assume it was all good. We the taxpayer still spent on a 100% mark up for a minimum of effort.
    Yes, you do wonder why no-one in the NHS etc purchasing team couldn't have just placed the order.

    I hope this stuff comes out in the enquiries. There may be reasonable answers (possible - don't laugh at the back) but it would be good to hear them.
    I doubt Alibaba is on the list of their preferred suppliers.

    In theory she should have been liable if the order didn't turn up or was unsuitable (not exactly uncommon). An insurance premium of 100% might not be far off given the normal failure rate.

    The problem is not that this happened, it is what happened when the supplies turned out to be unsuitable. Was anyone pursued for costs?

    I don't think I'd have made a 50/50 gamble on a random Chinese supplier getting it right first time.
    If she did it as a brand new ltd co then not a 50/50 gamble but a free bet, just let ltd co go bust if it doesnt work out.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    ydoethur said:

    Feeling a bit emotional today. First cricket match since my Dad died. I've only ever been to two matches without him, and we always used to ring up to slag off Gloucestershire's batsmen discuss the day's play during matches.

    So sorry for your loss. Losing a loved parent is tough. Not sure what your taste in music is, but I find this thought provoking and lovely:

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BKHCIVzV38
    ....with one of the most perfect guitar solos of all time at the end! makes me blub every time!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,827

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    If Labour had been in power for 13 years then it would make sense to investigate Labour cronies for government corruption. But given they have not been in power and can't spend the (at least central govts) money, then it is indeed Tory corruption that should be focused on.

    Similarly in Scottish govt funds and cronies, the focus should be on SNP cronies, rather than Tory cronies.

    Not sure why this is difficult.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,192
    edited April 2023
    This is an analogy of something, but I am not sure what. Inability to do strategy?

    On the left, road closed for a Council Gang to repair damage done to the pavement / cycle track by a big lorry parking on it to deliver some time ago.

    On the right, a big lorry parked on the pavement / cycle track to deliver.



    (This is Edinburgh, but it's just what came to hand and I'm not having a pop - it's the same everywhere afaics. It's like elements of schemes not being to current standards because it was designed 10 years ago and they are locked in.)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    edited April 2023

    ...

    It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.

    What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.

    One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.

    If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?

    Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.

    Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.

    Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
    The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.

    The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?

    When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.

    No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
    There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.

    A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
    Did the order actually arrive? And was it actually suitable for use?
    I believe it did, and there was no mention that it failed any specification tests. So let's assume it was all good. We the taxpayer still spent on a 100% mark up for a minimum of effort.
    Yes, you do wonder why no-one in the NHS etc purchasing team couldn't have just placed the order.

    I hope this stuff comes out in the enquiries. There may be reasonable answers (possible - don't laugh at the back) but it would be good to hear them.
    I doubt Alibaba is on the list of their preferred suppliers.

    In theory she should have been liable if the order didn't turn up or was unsuitable (not exactly uncommon). An insurance premium of 100% might not be far off given the normal failure rate.

    The problem is not that this happened, it is what happened when the supplies turned out to be unsuitable. Was anyone pursued for costs?

    I don't think I'd have made a 50/50 gamble on a random Chinese supplier getting it right first time.
    I believe the order was delivered and the product adequate. Everyone fulfilled their obligation at an additional cost to the NHS of £400k.

    And Rochdale's earlier point is no one reimbursed the NHS for unusable Chinese tat.

    In my anecdote, the lady in question gambled with taxpayers' money not her own, and quite legitimately. It paid off for her.
This discussion has been closed.