Feeling a bit emotional today. First cricket match since my Dad died. I've only ever been to two matches without him, and we always used to ring up to slag off Gloucestershire's batsmen discuss the day's play during matches.
It is, if I might make the comment, indeed disconcerting. For me it was whenever some book came out about one of my dad's old ships in the Navy, and it took me a while to stop thinking 'oh, I'll get that for his birthday/Christmas'.
Today is the actual day of my Dad’s funeral. So I win the filial grief poker game?
I am grateful to the Sturgeons for providing light entertainment
Respectful condolences.
The White Hotel was an epic work:
‘A remarkable and original novel . . . there is no novel to my knowledge which resembles this in technique or ideas. It stands alone’ Graham Greene
‘Astonishing . . . A forthright sensuality mixed with a fine historical feeling for the nightmare moments in modern history, a dreamlike fluidity and quickness’ John Updike
Feeling a bit emotional today. First cricket match since my Dad died. I've only ever been to two matches without him, and we always used to ring up to slag off Gloucestershire's batsmen discuss the day's play during matches.
It is, if I might make the comment, indeed disconcerting. For me it was whenever some book came out about one of my dad's old ships in the Navy, and it took me a while to stop thinking 'oh, I'll get that for his birthday/Christmas'.
Snap. At least nowadays it’s subsided to ‘well, he’d have enjoyed reading that’.
Quite a few more recently dead relatives and friends to take up the slack though.
Feeling a bit emotional today. First cricket match since my Dad died. I've only ever been to two matches without him, and we always used to ring up to slag off Gloucestershire's batsmen discuss the day's play during matches.
It is, if I might make the comment, indeed disconcerting. For me it was whenever some book came out about one of my dad's old ships in the Navy, and it took me a while to stop thinking 'oh, I'll get that for his birthday/Christmas'.
Snap. At least nowadays it’s subsided to ‘well, he’d have enjoyed reading that’.
Quite a few more recently dead relatives and friends to take up the slack though.
Once upon a time I was one of some 20 grandchildren of my maternal grandparents. Four of us left now, including myself and my sister.
Thanks for all the condolences. I’m ok. The sun is shining in Cornwall. The church will be beautiful. St Clement’s Malpas, a classic Cornish creek side church, by the Tresillian River
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Because corruption. None of these Tory spivs knew anything about PPE - it all came off the likes of Ali Baba. So why not cut out the middleman and buy it direct? Or answer the phone to the reputable PPE companies who were repeatedly ignored?
I almost feel like a fool not doing this myself. I already had one company. Simply incorporate RP MaskPro Ltd, ask the NHS for £107m no questions asked, go on AliBaba, search "facemasks" and make a quick £50m profit. Hell, I'd have happily voted Conservative had they done so.
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Did the order actually arrive? And was it actually suitable for use?
I believe it did, and there was no mention that it failed any specification tests. So let's assume it was all good. We the taxpayer still spent on a 100% mark up for a minimum of effort.
Yes, you do wonder why no-one in the NHS etc purchasing team couldn't have just placed the order.
I hope this stuff comes out in the enquiries. There may be reasonable answers (possible - don't laugh at the back) but it would be good to hear them.
I doubt Alibaba is on the list of their preferred suppliers.
In theory she should have been liable if the order didn't turn up or was unsuitable (not exactly uncommon). An insurance premium of 100% might not be far off given the normal failure rate.
The problem is not that this happened, it is what happened when the supplies turned out to be unsuitable. Was anyone pursued for costs?
I don't think I'd have made a 50/50 gamble on a random Chinese supplier getting it right first time.
I believe the order was delivered and the product adequate. Everyone fulfilled their obligation at a cost to the NHS of £400k.
And Rochdale's earlier point is no one reimbursed the NHS for unusable Chinese tat.
In my anecdote, the lady in question gambled with taxpayers' money not her own, and quite legitimately. It paid off for her.
If nobody in the NHS was prepared to pursue bad suppliers then it was indeed just gambling with taxpayers' money. Do they just not have a department to deal with such things?
I can't believe you can set up a Ltd company and just go bust after one transaction without some legal consequences for the directors. Don't you usually have to give some kind of personal guarantee for new companies - at least until the company has a track record?
Feeling a bit emotional today. First cricket match since my Dad died. I've only ever been to two matches without him, and we always used to ring up to slag off Gloucestershire's batsmen discuss the day's play during matches.
It is, if I might make the comment, indeed disconcerting. For me it was whenever some book came out about one of my dad's old ships in the Navy, and it took me a while to stop thinking 'oh, I'll get that for his birthday/Christmas'.
Today is the actual day of my Dad’s funeral. So I win the filial grief poker game?
I am grateful to the Sturgeons for providing light entertainment
For all of the gags and the sparring, genuine condolences.
So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.
What do you expect - its April. Season should start in May like the good old days!
At least they had some play. Other counties, eg Somerset have had none.
Apologies for the late good morning, but BT have only done half a job of upgrading our internet. The engineers have set everything up, but the new router hasn’t arrived.
That's interesting. Our new router from BT hasn't arrived either (after five weeks). Just an empty-handed engineer who was easily persuaded that I could install it myself if only I could get my hands on it.
Five weeks is nothing. Before privatisation, pre-Maggie, BT would make you wait years for a new router and it needed one of those ghastly CE labels. Now post-privatisation and post-Brexit free-market BT has it down to five weeks.
I'm a long term lurker. My partner complains I read your site far too often. Anyway, I'd like to just call out Foxy. Anyone with that name who wants freer range for chickens should be mistrusted.
Hi Horse_B
I think someone already did that joke.
And I'll prempt the Russian troll accusations too. People who are anti vaxxers are fools. Putin is a bad man.
Welcome. You don't sound (write) like anyone else on here (yet) so I have no comment on this.
However, I would say that people who don't like the government telling them what chemicals, chemicals which have been developed at an unprecedented rapid rate, they must put inside their body are not necessarily fools.
And I know, seat belts.
I simplified the case for humour. was a throwaway line. Put what you like in your body but don't lie about it. Is that better?
No. Not better. Why would it matter if you lied about it. Of course I would never lie about what I put in my body.
Oh and I had a bottle of Chateau Lafite 1982 for breakfast this morning.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Because corruption. None of these Tory spivs knew anything about PPE - it all came off the likes of Ali Baba. So why not cut out the middleman and buy it direct? Or answer the phone to the reputable PPE companies who were repeatedly ignored?
I almost feel like a fool not doing this myself. I already had one company. Simply incorporate RP MaskPro Ltd, ask the NHS for £107m no questions asked, go on AliBaba, search "facemasks" and make a quick £50m profit. Hell, I'd have happily voted Conservative had they done so.
The most laughable aspect was when it was suggested that Brexit supporting JCB could make ventilators ffs, and Dyson. None of this was necessary, there were loads of properly qualified ventilator manufacturers and contract manufacturers who were available. Fecking ludicrous.
So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.
What do you expect - its April. Season should start in May like the good old days!
At least they had some play. Other counties, eg Somerset have had none.
Apologies for the late good morning, but BT have only done half a job of upgrading our internet. The engineers have set everything up, but the new router hasn’t arrived.
That's interesting. Our new router from BT hasn't arrived either (after five weeks). Just an empty-handed engineer who was easily persuaded that I could install it myself if only I could get my hands on it.
Five weeks is nothing. Before privatisation, pre-Maggie, BT would make you wait years for a new router and it needed one of those ghastly CE labels. Now post-privatisation and post-Brexit free-market BT has it down to five weeks.
There's been a serious shortage of routers everywhere thanks to the chip famine.
Feeling a bit emotional today. First cricket match since my Dad died. I've only ever been to two matches without him, and we always used to ring up to slag off Gloucestershire's batsmen discuss the day's play during matches.
It is, if I might make the comment, indeed disconcerting. For me it was whenever some book came out about one of my dad's old ships in the Navy, and it took me a while to stop thinking 'oh, I'll get that for his birthday/Christmas'.
Today is the actual day of my Dad’s funeral. So I win the filial grief poker game?
I am grateful to the Sturgeons for providing light entertainment
For all of the gags and the sparring, genuine condolences.
You do know I don’t mean 90% of what I say, especially when I get punchy?
I come on here to joust. I see it as sport. Keeps the brain agile and passes the time fruitfully - coz I learn stuff
It’s why I don’t kick off with anyone who seems fragile and I always wait for someone else to get lairy first. At least those are my rules. I’ve probably broken them when sloshed
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Did the order actually arrive? And was it actually suitable for use?
I believe it did, and there was no mention that it failed any specification tests. So let's assume it was all good. We the taxpayer still spent on a 100% mark up for a minimum of effort.
Yes, you do wonder why no-one in the NHS etc purchasing team couldn't have just placed the order.
I hope this stuff comes out in the enquiries. There may be reasonable answers (possible - don't laugh at the back) but it would be good to hear them.
I doubt Alibaba is on the list of their preferred suppliers.
In theory she should have been liable if the order didn't turn up or was unsuitable (not exactly uncommon). An insurance premium of 100% might not be far off given the normal failure rate.
The problem is not that this happened, it is what happened when the supplies turned out to be unsuitable. Was anyone pursued for costs?
I don't think I'd have made a 50/50 gamble on a random Chinese supplier getting it right first time.
I believe the order was delivered and the product adequate. Everyone fulfilled their obligation at a cost to the NHS of £400k.
And Rochdale's earlier point is no one reimbursed the NHS for unusable Chinese tat.
In my anecdote, the lady in question gambled with taxpayers' money not her own, and quite legitimately. It paid off for her.
If nobody in the NHS was prepared to pursue bad suppliers then it was indeed just gambling with taxpayers' money. Do they just not have a department to deal with such things?
I can't believe you can set up a Ltd company and just go bust after one transaction without some legal consequences for the directors. Don't you usually have to give some kind of personal guarantee for new companies - at least until the company has a track record?
You have to be solvent when trading. I think it would be solvent until the point an order was rejected by the NHS and a refund requested. No personal guarantees mandated by companies house, NHS could have asked for some, don't know if they did.
Have we heard when the Privileges Committee will pronounce judgment on Boris?
Not that I've become addicted to downfall drama this week, like, but I'd appreciate some idea of when I will get my next fix.
Late May has been suggested
Suppose we need to pace it a bit, or it will be like binge-watching Netflix - finding you've done all the best bits and it is serious disappointment from hereon in....
Thanks for all the condolences. I’m ok. The sun is shining in Cornwall. The church will be beautiful. St Clement’s Malpas, a classic Cornish creek side church, by the Tresillian River
Then we drink
Sympathies. I found a couple of large Bloody Marys in Stornoway’s County Hotel beforehand helped quite a bit.
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Did the order actually arrive? And was it actually suitable for use?
I believe it did, and there was no mention that it failed any specification tests. So let's assume it was all good. We the taxpayer still spent on a 100% mark up for a minimum of effort.
Yes, you do wonder why no-one in the NHS etc purchasing team couldn't have just placed the order.
I hope this stuff comes out in the enquiries. There may be reasonable answers (possible - don't laugh at the back) but it would be good to hear them.
I doubt Alibaba is on the list of their preferred suppliers.
In theory she should have been liable if the order didn't turn up or was unsuitable (not exactly uncommon). An insurance premium of 100% might not be far off given the normal failure rate.
The problem is not that this happened, it is what happened when the supplies turned out to be unsuitable. Was anyone pursued for costs?
I don't think I'd have made a 50/50 gamble on a random Chinese supplier getting it right first time.
I believe the order was delivered and the product adequate. Everyone fulfilled their obligation at a cost to the NHS of £400k.
And Rochdale's earlier point is no one reimbursed the NHS for unusable Chinese tat.
In my anecdote, the lady in question gambled with taxpayers' money not her own, and quite legitimately. It paid off for her.
If nobody in the NHS was prepared to pursue bad suppliers then it was indeed just gambling with taxpayers' money. Do they just not have a department to deal with such things?
I can't believe you can set up a Ltd company and just go bust after one transaction without some legal consequences for the directors. Don't you usually have to give some kind of personal guarantee for new companies - at least until the company has a track record?
Under the laws of Limited Liability, it does what it says on the tin. Go bang with debts of £1m, or £100m and your "liability" is "limited". Yes if HMRC and the SFO believe you are swinging the lead there could be trouble afoot, but if there is, it will take a long time to reach court and interest wanes somewhat over time.
Just look at the Phoenix Four. They helped themselves to assets and pensions and their behaviour was deemed "all above board" if morally reprehensible.
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Because corruption. None of these Tory spivs knew anything about PPE - it all came off the likes of Ali Baba. So why not cut out the middleman and buy it direct? Or answer the phone to the reputable PPE companies who were repeatedly ignored?
I almost feel like a fool not doing this myself. I already had one company. Simply incorporate RP MaskPro Ltd, ask the NHS for £107m no questions asked, go on AliBaba, search "facemasks" and make a quick £50m profit. Hell, I'd have happily voted Conservative had they done so.
The most laughable aspect was when it was suggested that Brexit supporting JCB could make ventilators ffs, and Dyson. None of this was necessary, there were loads of properly qualified ventilator manufacturers and contract manufacturers who were available. Fecking ludicrous.
That's not fair TBH. At the time it was not predictable. The model with Dyson involvement met approval, and JCD were ready to start manufacturing their parts but other things had reduced the demand.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.
What do you expect - its April. Season should start in May like the good old days!
At least they had some play. Other counties, eg Somerset have had none.
Apologies for the late good morning, but BT have only done half a job of upgrading our internet. The engineers have set everything up, but the new router hasn’t arrived.
Thanks for all the condolences. I’m ok. The sun is shining in Cornwall. The church will be beautiful. St Clement’s Malpas, a classic Cornish creek side church, by the Tresillian River
Then we drink
Sympathies. I found a couple of large Bloody Marys in Stornoway’s County Hotel beforehand helped quite a bit.
Thanks. I’m on the nyetimber rose
Richard Madeley once told me half a bottle of champagne is the ideal amount of booze to drink before live TV. No more than that, or you might get squiffy and slur. I figure this is similar
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Tories chums et al needed to get as much loot as they could
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Why were people with no industry experience and little to no capital in the VIP lane? Aside from links to Tory MPs of course.
So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.
What do you expect - its April. Season should start in May like the good old days!
At least they had some play. Other counties, eg Somerset have had none.
Apologies for the late good morning, but BT have only done half a job of upgrading our internet. The engineers have set everything up, but the new router hasn’t arrived.
That's interesting. Our new router from BT hasn't arrived either (after five weeks). Just an empty-handed engineer who was easily persuaded that I could install it myself if only I could get my hands on it.
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Because corruption. None of these Tory spivs knew anything about PPE - it all came off the likes of Ali Baba. So why not cut out the middleman and buy it direct? Or answer the phone to the reputable PPE companies who were repeatedly ignored?
I almost feel like a fool not doing this myself. I already had one company. Simply incorporate RP MaskPro Ltd, ask the NHS for £107m no questions asked, go on AliBaba, search "facemasks" and make a quick £50m profit. Hell, I'd have happily voted Conservative had they done so.
The most laughable aspect was when it was suggested that Brexit supporting JCB could make ventilators ffs, and Dyson. None of this was necessary, there were loads of properly qualified ventilator manufacturers and contract manufacturers who were available. Fecking ludicrous.
That's not fair TBH. At the time it was not predictable. The model with Dyson involvement met approval, and JCD were ready to start manufacturing their parts but other things had reduced the demand.
It is very fair. Anyone who knew the first thing about medical devices would know that they would not be able to get regulatory approval for a new device in the timescale. Not surprisingly orders eventually went to those that had devices that were already approved. A ventilator is not a modified vacuum cleaner ffs!
It was a ridiculous sideshow and shameless cronyism to Dyson who lapped up the publicity.
So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.
What do you expect - its April. Season should start in May like the good old days!
At least they had some play. Other counties, eg Somerset have had none.
Apologies for the late good morning, but BT have only done half a job of upgrading our internet. The engineers have set everything up, but the new router hasn’t arrived.
They're not engineers!
That’s what BT call them. The word covers a multitude of skill levels.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Why were people with no industry experience and little to no capital in the VIP lane? Aside from links to Tory MPs of course.
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Tories chums et al needed to get as much loot as they could
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Did the order actually arrive? And was it actually suitable for use?
I believe it did, and there was no mention that it failed any specification tests. So let's assume it was all good. We the taxpayer still spent on a 100% mark up for a minimum of effort.
Yes, you do wonder why no-one in the NHS etc purchasing team couldn't have just placed the order.
I hope this stuff comes out in the enquiries. There may be reasonable answers (possible - don't laugh at the back) but it would be good to hear them.
I doubt Alibaba is on the list of their preferred suppliers.
In theory she should have been liable if the order didn't turn up or was unsuitable (not exactly uncommon). An insurance premium of 100% might not be far off given the normal failure rate.
The problem is not that this happened, it is what happened when the supplies turned out to be unsuitable. Was anyone pursued for costs?
I don't think I'd have made a 50/50 gamble on a random Chinese supplier getting it right first time.
I believe the order was delivered and the product adequate. Everyone fulfilled their obligation at a cost to the NHS of £400k.
And Rochdale's earlier point is no one reimbursed the NHS for unusable Chinese tat.
In my anecdote, the lady in question gambled with taxpayers' money not her own, and quite legitimately. It paid off for her.
If nobody in the NHS was prepared to pursue bad suppliers then it was indeed just gambling with taxpayers' money. Do they just not have a department to deal with such things?
I can't believe you can set up a Ltd company and just go bust after one transaction without some legal consequences for the directors. Don't you usually have to give some kind of personal guarantee for new companies - at least until the company has a track record?
A personal guarantee as a director to incorporate a business? No. As a director seeking to borrow £400k to pay AliBaba? Yes.
So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.
What do you expect - its April. Season should start in May like the good old days!
At least they had some play. Other counties, eg Somerset have had none.
Apologies for the late good morning, but BT have only done half a job of upgrading our internet. The engineers have set everything up, but the new router hasn’t arrived.
That's interesting. Our new router from BT hasn't arrived either (after five weeks). Just an empty-handed engineer who was easily persuaded that I could install it myself if only I could get my hands on it.
Not an engineer either!
I'm afraid that battle was lost long ago. This isn't Germany.
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Because corruption. None of these Tory spivs knew anything about PPE - it all came off the likes of Ali Baba. So why not cut out the middleman and buy it direct? Or answer the phone to the reputable PPE companies who were repeatedly ignored?
I almost feel like a fool not doing this myself. I already had one company. Simply incorporate RP MaskPro Ltd, ask the NHS for £107m no questions asked, go on AliBaba, search "facemasks" and make a quick £50m profit. Hell, I'd have happily voted Conservative had they done so.
The most laughable aspect was when it was suggested that Brexit supporting JCB could make ventilators ffs, and Dyson. None of this was necessary, there were loads of properly qualified ventilator manufacturers and contract manufacturers who were available. Fecking ludicrous.
That's not fair TBH. At the time it was not predictable. The model with Dyson involvement met approval, and JCD were ready to start manufacturing their parts but other things had reduced the demand.
The existing ventilator manufacturers couldn't meet projected demand. This was because in normal times the demand was low, so they had a very hands on process for building them. So they didn't have automated production lines. They were working at capacity and would have taken decades to make the machines required.
IIRC (@Foxy) the medical advice then pivoted from more ventilators to simpler, less invasive machines?
So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.
What do you expect - its April. Season should start in May like the good old days!
At least they had some play. Other counties, eg Somerset have had none.
Apologies for the late good morning, but BT have only done half a job of upgrading our internet. The engineers have set everything up, but the new router hasn’t arrived.
That's interesting. Our new router from BT hasn't arrived either (after five weeks). Just an empty-handed engineer who was easily persuaded that I could install it myself if only I could get my hands on it.
Five weeks is nothing. Before privatisation, pre-Maggie, BT would make you wait years for a new router and it needed one of those ghastly CE labels. Now post-privatisation and post-Brexit free-market BT has it down to five weeks.
There's been a serious shortage of routers everywhere thanks to the chip famine.
Vodafone delivered mine ahead of time , swap was done today and only signed up 10 days ago at most.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Why were people with no industry experience and little to no capital in the VIP lane? Aside from links to Tory MPs of course.
Questions for the enquiries.
The average cabinet career is about 3-5 years. Enquiries tend to report about 5 years after the events......
It is a perfectly valid question for those of us interested in politics before the enquiries report too.
So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.
What do you expect - its April. Season should start in May like the good old days!
At least they had some play. Other counties, eg Somerset have had none.
Apologies for the late good morning, but BT have only done half a job of upgrading our internet. The engineers have set everything up, but the new router hasn’t arrived.
That's interesting. Our new router from BT hasn't arrived either (after five weeks). Just an empty-handed engineer who was easily persuaded that I could install it myself if only I could get my hands on it.
Five weeks is nothing. Before privatisation, pre-Maggie, BT would make you wait years for a new router and it needed one of those ghastly CE labels. Now post-privatisation and post-Brexit free-market BT has it down to five weeks.
Had Community Fibre do an install in about 2 days from first contact.
They re-ran the fibre to the street 3 times to get the performance they had promised - an excessive curve was cutting the speed to around a third from the expected 1G/1G
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.
What do you expect - its April. Season should start in May like the good old days!
At least they had some play. Other counties, eg Somerset have had none.
Apologies for the late good morning, but BT have only done half a job of upgrading our internet. The engineers have set everything up, but the new router hasn’t arrived.
That's interesting. Our new router from BT hasn't arrived either (after five weeks). Just an empty-handed engineer who was easily persuaded that I could install it myself if only I could get my hands on it.
Not an engineer either!
I'm afraid that battle was lost long ago. This isn't Germany.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
It's still hindsight.
At the time, everyone was screaming at the government to do whatever it took to get the PPE and damn the cost.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Pressure my arse it was just robbery to allow friends and relatives of the cabinet shedloads of public money.
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Did the order actually arrive? And was it actually suitable for use?
I believe it did, and there was no mention that it failed any specification tests. So let's assume it was all good. We the taxpayer still spent on a 100% mark up for a minimum of effort.
Yes, you do wonder why no-one in the NHS etc purchasing team couldn't have just placed the order.
I hope this stuff comes out in the enquiries. There may be reasonable answers (possible - don't laugh at the back) but it would be good to hear them.
I doubt Alibaba is on the list of their preferred suppliers.
In theory she should have been liable if the order didn't turn up or was unsuitable (not exactly uncommon). An insurance premium of 100% might not be far off given the normal failure rate.
The problem is not that this happened, it is what happened when the supplies turned out to be unsuitable. Was anyone pursued for costs?
I don't think I'd have made a 50/50 gamble on a random Chinese supplier getting it right first time.
No problem. If the goods didn't turn up then just declare the company insolvent. No financial risk to the shareholders apart from the hit to reputation.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.
But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.
I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
Feeling a bit emotional today. First cricket match since my Dad died. I've only ever been to two matches without him, and we always used to ring up to slag off Gloucestershire's batsmen discuss the day's play during matches.
It is, if I might make the comment, indeed disconcerting. For me it was whenever some book came out about one of my dad's old ships in the Navy, and it took me a while to stop thinking 'oh, I'll get that for his birthday/Christmas'.
Today is the actual day of my Dad’s funeral. So I win the filial grief poker game?
I am grateful to the Sturgeons for providing light entertainment
For all of the gags and the sparring, genuine condolences.
You do know I don’t mean 90% of what I say, especially when I get punchy?
I come on here to joust. I see it as sport. Keeps the brain agile and passes the time fruitfully - coz I learn stuff
It’s why I don’t kick off with anyone who seems fragile and I always wait for someone else to get lairy first. At least those are my rules. I’ve probably broken them when sloshed
I'll take that as a compliment considering some of our rows. I get them anywhere I can.
Condolences. My dad died in February. You will probably have lots to sort out
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Pressure my arse it was just robbery to allow friends and relatives of the cabinet shedloads of public money.
Like taking 600,000 quid and not spending it on a referendum?
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
To add to the insult, we are now paying for storage or destruction of that PPE, sometimes to the same companies.
Worth noting too that many of these contracts were signed in the summer of 2020, well after the initial panic on supplies.
It was naked troughing to bung government contracts to their mates.
Thanks for all the condolences. I’m ok. The sun is shining in Cornwall. The church will be beautiful. St Clement’s Malpas, a classic Cornish creek side church, by the Tresillian River
So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.
What do you expect - its April. Season should start in May like the good old days!
At least they had some play. Other counties, eg Somerset have had none.
Apologies for the late good morning, but BT have only done half a job of upgrading our internet. The engineers have set everything up, but the new router hasn’t arrived.
That's interesting. Our new router from BT hasn't arrived either (after five weeks). Just an empty-handed engineer who was easily persuaded that I could install it myself if only I could get my hands on it.
That’s alarming. We had quite a satisfactory service…..I don’t do gaming….. but were persuaded to upgrade when we rang BT to report a scam. “You’ll get the new router before the engineer comes” we were told. Now the engineer’s been and set up the new modem, and the old router no longer works so we’re having to manage on our phone’s hotspots. I rang BT service and was told by the helpful Indian lady that “there was a delay. Sorry! No, she didn’t know how long!”
Check into compensation rights - I think you can get £8 a day if they are not fixing the problem
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Because corruption. None of these Tory spivs knew anything about PPE - it all came off the likes of Ali Baba. So why not cut out the middleman and buy it direct? Or answer the phone to the reputable PPE companies who were repeatedly ignored?
I almost feel like a fool not doing this myself. I already had one company. Simply incorporate RP MaskPro Ltd, ask the NHS for £107m no questions asked, go on AliBaba, search "facemasks" and make a quick £50m profit. Hell, I'd have happily voted Conservative had they done so.
The most laughable aspect was when it was suggested that Brexit supporting JCB could make ventilators ffs, and Dyson. None of this was necessary, there were loads of properly qualified ventilator manufacturers and contract manufacturers who were available. Fecking ludicrous.
That's not fair TBH. At the time it was not predictable. The model with Dyson involvement met approval, and JCD were ready to start manufacturing their parts but other things had reduced the demand.
The existing ventilator manufacturers couldn't meet projected demand. This was because in normal times the demand was low, so they had a very hands on process for building them. So they didn't have automated production lines. They were working at capacity and would have taken decades to make the machines required.
IIRC (@Foxy) the medical advice then pivoted from more ventilators to simpler, less invasive machines?
In a (grim) parallel universe, it might have come to that. How close we came is probably for the inquiry to work out, and what it would have looked like is for the fiction writers of the future. I wonder when it stops being "too soon" for the alt-history of 2020 to be written?
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Did the order actually arrive? And was it actually suitable for use?
I believe it did, and there was no mention that it failed any specification tests. So let's assume it was all good. We the taxpayer still spent on a 100% mark up for a minimum of effort.
Yes, you do wonder why no-one in the NHS etc purchasing team couldn't have just placed the order.
I hope this stuff comes out in the enquiries. There may be reasonable answers (possible - don't laugh at the back) but it would be good to hear them.
I doubt Alibaba is on the list of their preferred suppliers.
In theory she should have been liable if the order didn't turn up or was unsuitable (not exactly uncommon). An insurance premium of 100% might not be far off given the normal failure rate.
The problem is not that this happened, it is what happened when the supplies turned out to be unsuitable. Was anyone pursued for costs?
I don't think I'd have made a 50/50 gamble on a random Chinese supplier getting it right first time.
No problem. If the goods didn't turn up then just declare the company insolvent. No financial risk to the shareholders apart from the hit to reputation.
As per above, if you are buying from a new company with no track record, you'd surely want a personal guarantee.
You suspect one wasn't asked for, but it should have been. We don't really know.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.
But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.
I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.
"It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Did the order actually arrive? And was it actually suitable for use?
I believe it did, and there was no mention that it failed any specification tests. So let's assume it was all good. We the taxpayer still spent on a 100% mark up for a minimum of effort.
Yes, you do wonder why no-one in the NHS etc purchasing team couldn't have just placed the order.
I hope this stuff comes out in the enquiries. There may be reasonable answers (possible - don't laugh at the back) but it would be good to hear them.
I doubt Alibaba is on the list of their preferred suppliers.
In theory she should have been liable if the order didn't turn up or was unsuitable (not exactly uncommon). An insurance premium of 100% might not be far off given the normal failure rate.
The problem is not that this happened, it is what happened when the supplies turned out to be unsuitable. Was anyone pursued for costs?
I don't think I'd have made a 50/50 gamble on a random Chinese supplier getting it right first time.
I believe the order was delivered and the product adequate. Everyone fulfilled their obligation at an additional cost to the NHS of £400k.
And Rochdale's earlier point is no one reimbursed the NHS for unusable Chinese tat.
In my anecdote, the lady in question gambled with taxpayers' money not her own, and quite legitimately. It paid off for her.
One would assume that the NHS procurement teams were doing that *as well*
There was a specific team to contract with third parties. This lady tried it on and got away with it. Good for her.
It’s very easy to criticise with hindsight but the reality is we wanted as much PPE as we could get as fast as we could get it and didn't particularly care how much it cost
Feeling a bit emotional today. First cricket match since my Dad died. I've only ever been to two matches without him, and we always used to ring up to slag off Gloucestershire's batsmen discuss the day's play during matches.
So sorry for your loss. Losing a loved parent is tough. Not sure what your taste in music is, but I find this thought provoking and lovely:
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Pressure my arse it was just robbery to allow friends and relatives of the cabinet shedloads of public money.
Like taking 600,000 quid and not spending it on a referendum?
Lets see what the enquiries say.
exactly the same , both sets of crooks. You will have seen me rant about that for last 1-2 years and state how it would end.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.
But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.
I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.
"It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
He's not, as far as I can tell, saying it was Sir Keir's fault - he's just saying that Sir Keir would have done a similar thing had he been PM. Just with a different list of suppliers.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.
But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.
I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.
"It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
I didn't claim it was all Starmer's fault. I don't know why the NHS procurement didn't go direct. All questions for the inquiries. If wrong doing has occurred no-one will be more delighted than me to see it punished. I am just against re-writing history with facts known only after the time.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
Actually the situation with Vygon was dodgy as fuck.
The UK government paid a premium price to get the first supply
The French tried to jump the queue and Vygon - quite properly - said “non”
So the French seized the cargo and passed a retrospective ban on all exports of PPE
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Did the order actually arrive? And was it actually suitable for use?
I believe it did, and there was no mention that it failed any specification tests. So let's assume it was all good. We the taxpayer still spent on a 100% mark up for a minimum of effort.
Yes, you do wonder why no-one in the NHS etc purchasing team couldn't have just placed the order.
I hope this stuff comes out in the enquiries. There may be reasonable answers (possible - don't laugh at the back) but it would be good to hear them.
I doubt Alibaba is on the list of their preferred suppliers.
In theory she should have been liable if the order didn't turn up or was unsuitable (not exactly uncommon). An insurance premium of 100% might not be far off given the normal failure rate.
The problem is not that this happened, it is what happened when the supplies turned out to be unsuitable. Was anyone pursued for costs?
I don't think I'd have made a 50/50 gamble on a random Chinese supplier getting it right first time.
I believe the order was delivered and the product adequate. Everyone fulfilled their obligation at an additional cost to the NHS of £400k.
And Rochdale's earlier point is no one reimbursed the NHS for unusable Chinese tat.
In my anecdote, the lady in question gambled with taxpayers' money not her own, and quite legitimately. It paid off for her.
One would assume that the NHS procurement teams were doing that *as well*
There was a specific team to contract with third parties. This lady tried it on and got away with it. Good for her.
It’s very easy to criticise with hindsight but the reality is we wanted as much PPE as we could get as fast as we could get it and didn't particularly care how much it cost
Obviously NHS procurement are totally useless. If those Bozos could go online and find it then why was it an issue for supposedly procurement professionals. One of teh reasons the NHS is a money pit is the useless organisation and obviously useless departments who cannot do the job they are paid for. Seems all they can do is send large cheques to any Tom, Dick or Harry.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
To add to the insult, we are now paying for storage or destruction of that PPE, sometimes to the same companies.
Worth noting too that many of these contracts were signed in the summer of 2020, well after the initial panic on supplies.
It was naked troughing to bung government contracts to their mates.
It is being vigorously defended, tooth and nail on here today, just as Rochdale anticipated it would, by Government shills.
"It was an emergency", "the French stole our PPE", and "Starmer made a list, it was his fault". I'm sure the best is yet to come.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
Actually the situation with Vygon was dodgy as fuck.
The UK government paid a premium price to get the first supply
The French tried to jump the queue and Vygon - quite properly - said “non”
So the French seized the cargo and passed a retrospective ban on all exports of PPE
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
To add to the insult, we are now paying for storage or destruction of that PPE, sometimes to the same companies.
Worth noting too that many of these contracts were signed in the summer of 2020, well after the initial panic on supplies.
It was naked troughing to bung government contracts to their mates.
It is being vigorously defended, tooth and nail on here today, just as Rochdale anticipated it would, by Government shills.
"It was an emergency", "the French stole our PPE", and "Starmer made a list, it was his fault". I'm sure the best is yet to come.
Transparent strawman - nobody has said it was Sir Keir's fault.
So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.
What do you expect - its April. Season should start in May like the good old days!
At least they had some play. Other counties, eg Somerset have had none.
Apologies for the late good morning, but BT have only done half a job of upgrading our internet. The engineers have set everything up, but the new router hasn’t arrived.
That's interesting. Our new router from BT hasn't arrived either (after five weeks). Just an empty-handed engineer who was easily persuaded that I could install it myself if only I could get my hands on it.
Not an engineer either!
I'm afraid that battle was lost long ago. This isn't Germany.
Is a software engineer an engineer?
If we go by the rules elsewhere, only if they are a C.Eng (via the BCS).
If we go by the rules of current language, anyone can call themselves an engineer.
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Did the order actually arrive? And was it actually suitable for use?
I believe it did, and there was no mention that it failed any specification tests. So let's assume it was all good. We the taxpayer still spent on a 100% mark up for a minimum of effort.
Yes, you do wonder why no-one in the NHS etc purchasing team couldn't have just placed the order.
I hope this stuff comes out in the enquiries. There may be reasonable answers (possible - don't laugh at the back) but it would be good to hear them.
I doubt Alibaba is on the list of their preferred suppliers.
In theory she should have been liable if the order didn't turn up or was unsuitable (not exactly uncommon). An insurance premium of 100% might not be far off given the normal failure rate.
The problem is not that this happened, it is what happened when the supplies turned out to be unsuitable. Was anyone pursued for costs?
I don't think I'd have made a 50/50 gamble on a random Chinese supplier getting it right first time.
I believe the order was delivered and the product adequate. Everyone fulfilled their obligation at an additional cost to the NHS of £400k.
And Rochdale's earlier point is no one reimbursed the NHS for unusable Chinese tat.
In my anecdote, the lady in question gambled with taxpayers' money not her own, and quite legitimately. It paid off for her.
One would assume that the NHS procurement teams were doing that *as well*
There was a specific team to contract with third parties. This lady tried it on and got away with it. Good for her.
It’s very easy to criticise with hindsight but the reality is we wanted as much PPE as we could get as fast as we could get it and didn't particularly care how much it cost
Obviously NHS procurement are totally useless. If those Bozos could go online and find it then why was it an issue for supposedly procurement professionals. One of teh reasons the NHS is a money pit is the useless organisation and obviously useless departments who cannot do the job they are paid for. Seems all they can do is send large cheques to any Tom, Dick or Harry.
They were doing both.
The issue is that NHS procurement isn’t centralised (it should be). So procurement was ordering at a hospital / facility / Trust / CCG level.
The contacts were organised centrally and then distributed to the local facilities as a top up supply chain
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
To add to the insult, we are now paying for storage or destruction of that PPE, sometimes to the same companies.
Worth noting too that many of these contracts were signed in the summer of 2020, well after the initial panic on supplies.
It was naked troughing to bung government contracts to their mates.
It is being vigorously defended, tooth and nail on here today, just as Rochdale anticipated it would, by Government shills.
"It was an emergency", "the French stole our PPE", and "Starmer made a list, it was his fault". I'm sure the best is yet to come.
See another post re the French - they did steal PPE en route to us, because it was an emergency. I did not blame Starmer - that's your invention.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
Actually the situation with Vygon was dodgy as fuck.
The UK government paid a premium price to get the first supply
The French tried to jump the queue and Vygon - quite properly - said “non”
So the French seized the cargo and passed a retrospective ban on all exports of PPE
I sometimes wonder why we have a navy.
Would be difficult to get down the Seine to Ecouen…
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
To add to the insult, we are now paying for storage or destruction of that PPE, sometimes to the same companies.
Worth noting too that many of these contracts were signed in the summer of 2020, well after the initial panic on supplies.
It was naked troughing to bung government contracts to their mates.
It is being vigorously defended, tooth and nail on here today, just as Rochdale anticipated it would, by Government shills.
"It was an emergency", "the French stole our PPE", and "Starmer made a list, it was his fault". I'm sure the best is yet to come.
Very poor showing by Reform UK. It probably means most of their 6% average in the opinion polls will go the Tories, taking the latter from about 28% to around 32%.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.
But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.
I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.
"It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
He's not, as far as I can tell, saying it was Sir Keir's fault - he's just saying that Sir Keir would have done a similar thing had he been PM. Just with a different list of suppliers.
Hopefully a list including the likes of "3M, Orpian and Hardshell (made in Cardiff)" as opposed to "Uncle Jeff, Aunty Cynthia and that bloke I play skittles with down the pub on a Tuesday"
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Did the order actually arrive? And was it actually suitable for use?
I believe it did, and there was no mention that it failed any specification tests. So let's assume it was all good. We the taxpayer still spent on a 100% mark up for a minimum of effort.
Yes, you do wonder why no-one in the NHS etc purchasing team couldn't have just placed the order.
I hope this stuff comes out in the enquiries. There may be reasonable answers (possible - don't laugh at the back) but it would be good to hear them.
I doubt Alibaba is on the list of their preferred suppliers.
In theory she should have been liable if the order didn't turn up or was unsuitable (not exactly uncommon). An insurance premium of 100% might not be far off given the normal failure rate.
The problem is not that this happened, it is what happened when the supplies turned out to be unsuitable. Was anyone pursued for costs?
I don't think I'd have made a 50/50 gamble on a random Chinese supplier getting it right first time.
I believe the order was delivered and the product adequate. Everyone fulfilled their obligation at an additional cost to the NHS of £400k.
And Rochdale's earlier point is no one reimbursed the NHS for unusable Chinese tat.
In my anecdote, the lady in question gambled with taxpayers' money not her own, and quite legitimately. It paid off for her.
One would assume that the NHS procurement teams were doing that *as well*
There was a specific team to contract with third parties. This lady tried it on and got away with it. Good for her.
It’s very easy to criticise with hindsight but the reality is we wanted as much PPE as we could get as fast as we could get it and didn't particularly care how much it cost
Obviously NHS procurement are totally useless. If those Bozos could go online and find it then why was it an issue for supposedly procurement professionals. One of teh reasons the NHS is a money pit is the useless organisation and obviously useless departments who cannot do the job they are paid for. Seems all they can do is send large cheques to any Tom, Dick or Harry.
Yeah they just hand over large amounts of state money to businesspeople chosen at random by sticking a pin in the telephone directory, or who happen to have emailed them on a given morning. It's not as if anything else is going on. They're incompetent only. Useless. Silly sods. Repeat after me: incompetence, incompetence, incompetence. Yes it involves large amounts of state money getting paid to private interests, while the actual public service crumbles into dust or at least never improves. But nothing else is going on. Incompetence. Silly bureaucratic sods. Hearts in the right places. But silly sods. Incompetent.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.
But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.
I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.
"It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
I didn't claim it was all Starmer's fault. I don't know why the NHS procurement didn't go direct. All questions for the inquiries. If wrong doing has occurred no-one will be more delighted than me to see it punished. I am just against re-writing history with facts known only after the time.
Usual guff , lessons will be learned and all the crooks keep their ill gotten spoils after they have wasted 100M and several years paying another bunch of parasites to sit on their arses and talk about it.
So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.
What do you expect - its April. Season should start in May like the good old days!
At least they had some play. Other counties, eg Somerset have had none.
Apologies for the late good morning, but BT have only done half a job of upgrading our internet. The engineers have set everything up, but the new router hasn’t arrived.
That's interesting. Our new router from BT hasn't arrived either (after five weeks). Just an empty-handed engineer who was easily persuaded that I could install it myself if only I could get my hands on it.
Not an engineer either!
I'm afraid that battle was lost long ago. This isn't Germany.
Is a software engineer an engineer?
In the traditional sense no, as they do not design, build or test complex structures, machines or engines. In the wider modern sense, which includes complex systems, they utterly are.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
To add to the insult, we are now paying for storage or destruction of that PPE, sometimes to the same companies.
Worth noting too that many of these contracts were signed in the summer of 2020, well after the initial panic on supplies.
It was naked troughing to bung government contracts to their mates.
It is being vigorously defended, tooth and nail on here today, just as Rochdale anticipated it would, by Government shills.
"It was an emergency", "the French stole our PPE", and "Starmer made a list, it was his fault". I'm sure the best is yet to come.
Transparent strawman - nobody has said it was Sir Keir's fault.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.
But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.
I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.
"It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
He's not, as far as I can tell, saying it was Sir Keir's fault - he's just saying that Sir Keir would have done a similar thing had he been PM. Just with a different list of suppliers.
Hopefully a list including the likes of "3M, Orpian and Hardshell (made in Cardiff)" as opposed to "Uncle Jeff, Aunty Cynthia and that bloke I play skittles with down the pub on a Tuesday"
I'll have to check after lunch, but IIRC one Labour shadow minister mentioned a specific company in the COmmons and they turned out to be completely unsuitable.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.
But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.
I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.
"It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
He's not, as far as I can tell, saying it was Sir Keir's fault - he's just saying that Sir Keir would have done a similar thing had he been PM. Just with a different list of suppliers.
Hopefully a list including the likes of "3M, Orpian and Hardshell (made in Cardiff)" as opposed to "Uncle Jeff, Aunty Cynthia and that bloke I play skittles with down the pub on a Tuesday"
Talking about blokes in pubs ... I never did learn what happened with this.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
The French Government diverted orders committed to half a dozen European countries into their own stocks. It was a Prime Ministerial decree. In the UK case it was stopped when it was crossing the border.
You can try and put a gloss on it; that's what happened. And I don't think other European countries behave in quite that way. The US did, however, and EuCo had a good try.
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Did the order actually arrive? And was it actually suitable for use?
I believe it did, and there was no mention that it failed any specification tests. So let's assume it was all good. We the taxpayer still spent on a 100% mark up for a minimum of effort.
Yes, you do wonder why no-one in the NHS etc purchasing team couldn't have just placed the order.
I hope this stuff comes out in the enquiries. There may be reasonable answers (possible - don't laugh at the back) but it would be good to hear them.
I doubt Alibaba is on the list of their preferred suppliers.
In theory she should have been liable if the order didn't turn up or was unsuitable (not exactly uncommon). An insurance premium of 100% might not be far off given the normal failure rate.
The problem is not that this happened, it is what happened when the supplies turned out to be unsuitable. Was anyone pursued for costs?
I don't think I'd have made a 50/50 gamble on a random Chinese supplier getting it right first time.
I believe the order was delivered and the product adequate. Everyone fulfilled their obligation at an additional cost to the NHS of £400k.
And Rochdale's earlier point is no one reimbursed the NHS for unusable Chinese tat.
In my anecdote, the lady in question gambled with taxpayers' money not her own, and quite legitimately. It paid off for her.
One would assume that the NHS procurement teams were doing that *as well*
There was a specific team to contract with third parties. This lady tried it on and got away with it. Good for her.
It’s very easy to criticise with hindsight but the reality is we wanted as much PPE as we could get as fast as we could get it and didn't particularly care how much it cost
Obviously NHS procurement are totally useless. If those Bozos could go online and find it then why was it an issue for supposedly procurement professionals. One of teh reasons the NHS is a money pit is the useless organisation and obviously useless departments who cannot do the job they are paid for. Seems all they can do is send large cheques to any Tom, Dick or Harry.
They were doing both.
The issue is that NHS procurement isn’t centralised (it should be). So procurement was ordering at a hospital / facility / Trust / CCG level.
The contacts were organised centrally and then distributed to the local facilities as a top up supply chain
Still , if someone from a pub, jewellry seller , nail shop owner , thick Baroness can go and order this stuff it still means that the procurement people in all trusts are all still useless.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.
But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.
I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.
"It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
I didn't claim it was all Starmer's fault. I don't know why the NHS procurement didn't go direct. All questions for the inquiries. If wrong doing has occurred no-one will be more delighted than me to see it punished. I am just against re-writing history with facts known only after the time.
Usual guff , lessons will be learned and all the crooks keep their ill gotten spoils after they have wasted 100M and several years paying another bunch of parasites to sit on their arses and talk about it.
Given the experience of an acquaintance who, working for the government, was forced out of her job for getting a Nightingale hospital completed on schedule*, I think the answer is fairly simple.
She did what every contractor does - if material isn't available from the main supplier immediately, you send someone in a van to Screwfix to get the bolts or whatever you need. Then you add the receipt to the project. Apparently this was Bad Form - she should have waited a week for the big shipment from the Chosen Suppliers.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.
But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.
I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.
"It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
He's not, as far as I can tell, saying it was Sir Keir's fault - he's just saying that Sir Keir would have done a similar thing had he been PM. Just with a different list of suppliers.
Calling him "Sir Keir" has a slightly smarmy feel to it. If you wish to include the title it's better to go for "SKS".
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
To add to the insult, we are now paying for storage or destruction of that PPE, sometimes to the same companies.
Worth noting too that many of these contracts were signed in the summer of 2020, well after the initial panic on supplies.
It was naked troughing to bung government contracts to their mates.
It is being vigorously defended, tooth and nail on here today, just as Rochdale anticipated it would, by Government shills.
"It was an emergency", "the French stole our PPE", and "Starmer made a list, it was his fault". I'm sure the best is yet to come.
And I'm not a government shill FFS.
You consistently give the establishment massive leeway and benefit of the doubt which if everyone adopted that approach would allow them to avoid any scrutiny.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.
But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.
I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.
"It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
He's not, as far as I can tell, saying it was Sir Keir's fault - he's just saying that Sir Keir would have done a similar thing had he been PM. Just with a different list of suppliers.
Hopefully a list including the likes of "3M, Orpian and Hardshell (made in Cardiff)" as opposed to "Uncle Jeff, Aunty Cynthia and that bloke I play skittles with down the pub on a Tuesday"
Talking about blokes in pubs ... I never did learn what happened with this.
It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.
What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.
One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.
If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?
Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.
Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.
Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.
The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?
When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.
No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.
A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
Did the order actually arrive? And was it actually suitable for use?
I believe it did, and there was no mention that it failed any specification tests. So let's assume it was all good. We the taxpayer still spent on a 100% mark up for a minimum of effort.
Yes, you do wonder why no-one in the NHS etc purchasing team couldn't have just placed the order.
I hope this stuff comes out in the enquiries. There may be reasonable answers (possible - don't laugh at the back) but it would be good to hear them.
I doubt Alibaba is on the list of their preferred suppliers.
In theory she should have been liable if the order didn't turn up or was unsuitable (not exactly uncommon). An insurance premium of 100% might not be far off given the normal failure rate.
The problem is not that this happened, it is what happened when the supplies turned out to be unsuitable. Was anyone pursued for costs?
I don't think I'd have made a 50/50 gamble on a random Chinese supplier getting it right first time.
I believe the order was delivered and the product adequate. Everyone fulfilled their obligation at an additional cost to the NHS of £400k.
And Rochdale's earlier point is no one reimbursed the NHS for unusable Chinese tat.
In my anecdote, the lady in question gambled with taxpayers' money not her own, and quite legitimately. It paid off for her.
One would assume that the NHS procurement teams were doing that *as well*
There was a specific team to contract with third parties. This lady tried it on and got away with it. Good for her.
It’s very easy to criticise with hindsight but the reality is we wanted as much PPE as we could get as fast as we could get it and didn't particularly care how much it cost
Obviously NHS procurement are totally useless. If those Bozos could go online and find it then why was it an issue for supposedly procurement professionals. One of teh reasons the NHS is a money pit is the useless organisation and obviously useless departments who cannot do the job they are paid for. Seems all they can do is send large cheques to any Tom, Dick or Harry.
They were doing both.
The issue is that NHS procurement isn’t centralised (it should be). So procurement was ordering at a hospital / facility / Trust / CCG level.
The contacts were organised centrally and then distributed to the local facilities as a top up supply chain
Still , if someone from a pub, jewellry seller , nail shop owner , thick Baroness can go and order this stuff it still means that the procurement people in all trusts are all still useless.
I think that’s really the point Malcolm. If companies got a premium by sourcing some unknown supply of PPE and made money off it, good luck to them. These companies’ secret weapon seems to have been a google search.
Very poor showing by Reform UK. It probably means most of their 6% average in the opinion polls will go the Tories, taking the latter from about 28% to around 32%.
Aren't the stats about 1/2 go Conservative, 1/3 go Labour? Net benefit to Conservatives, but not huge.
In any case, UKIP/Brexit/RefUK have never tried to do that well at local elections, unless there was a strong group of local activists in one place (They did insanely well in Havering in 2014, but it all fell apart four years later.)
Air war has always been their strength, which doesn't need many activists or candidates.
Feeling a bit emotional today. First cricket match since my Dad died. I've only ever been to two matches without him, and we always used to ring up to slag off Gloucestershire's batsmen discuss the day's play during matches.
So sorry for your loss. Losing a loved parent is tough. Not sure what your taste in music is, but I find this thought provoking and lovely:
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.
But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.
I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.
"It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
He's not, as far as I can tell, saying it was Sir Keir's fault - he's just saying that Sir Keir would have done a similar thing had he been PM. Just with a different list of suppliers.
Hopefully a list including the likes of "3M, Orpian and Hardshell (made in Cardiff)" as opposed to "Uncle Jeff, Aunty Cynthia and that bloke I play skittles with down the pub on a Tuesday"
I'll have to check after lunch, but IIRC one Labour shadow minister mentioned a specific company in the COmmons and they turned out to be completely unsuitable.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
It's still hindsight.
At the time, everyone was screaming at the government to do whatever it took to get the PPE and damn the cost.
And they did.
And they didn't. We wasted billions of pounds - corruptly handed to mates - who delivered either no PPE at all or PPE that was unusable. That shortfall meant that medics continued to not have enough and continued to be exposed to and in some cases sadly killed by Covid.
Or - we could have got actual PPE companies to get the stuff. They know what they are shopping for which is more than you can say for some of these fly by night creations.
As mentioned earlier I bought a new car. The damn thing is more intelligent than me (now waiting for the obvious replies). I'm gobsmacked by what it can do, most of which is a waste of time.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
To add to the insult, we are now paying for storage or destruction of that PPE, sometimes to the same companies.
Worth noting too that many of these contracts were signed in the summer of 2020, well after the initial panic on supplies.
It was naked troughing to bung government contracts to their mates.
" well after the initial panic on supplies."
I fear that this is a little reinvention of history. Covid was still gong strong, we were waiting for a second wave, and vaccines were a hope, rather than reality. The government had been slaughtered (both fairly and unfairly) for not having enough PPE, and with the uncertain future to come, it made sense to try to get as much of the stuff in as we could. As did other countries.
It's yet another situation where a government (any government) cannot really get it right. Try to get whatever you can, and waste money and/or get the wrong stuff; or try to get only the right stuff, and end up with little or nothing as demand spikes again.
And this is not government shilling; as I've said all along, I'm blooming glad I never had to make any decisions during this Covid crisis. It was always clear that every decision would be seen as *wrong* by political opponents - who may very well have made the same, or worse, decisions. Or better in some areas and worse in others.
Very poor showing by Reform UK. It probably means most of their 6% average in the opinion polls will go the Tories, taking the latter from about 28% to around 32%.
Aren't the stats about 1/2 go Conservative, 1/3 go Labour? Net benefit to Conservatives, but not huge.
In any case, UKIP/Brexit/RefUK have never tried to do that well at local elections, unless there was a strong group of local activists in one place (They did insanely well in Havering in 2014, but it all fell apart four years later.)
Air war has always been their strength, which doesn't need many activists or candidates.
Yes, as with disillusioned folk leaving Labour, there's often a strong antipathy to voting for the former party. I'd expect that in practice lots of disgruntled Tories will simply abstain if there's no RefUk candidate. It's not as if most people have a burning desire to vote in local elections.
Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.
This, perhaps, is because as it is free online most readers of the Guardian are not Guardian Readers.
Guardian Readers knit their own meat and plastic free alternatives to actually eating food. This is why they all look ill.
Ah, that is from the Woke Finders' Manual evidently. How to tell the difference between person A reading the Graun and person B doing precisely the same.
Edit: and to be fair also the G. has a decent website withotu sidebars milking more mammaries than my uncle's dairy parlour, or pop-up videos.
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.
But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.
I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.
"It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
He's not, as far as I can tell, saying it was Sir Keir's fault - he's just saying that Sir Keir would have done a similar thing had he been PM. Just with a different list of suppliers.
Calling him "Sir Keir" has a slightly smarmy feel to it. If you wish to include the title it's better to go for "SKS".
It also prevents my rather unfortunate habit of calling him 'Kier' - after the construction company...
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.
But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.
I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.
"It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
He's not, as far as I can tell, saying it was Sir Keir's fault - he's just saying that Sir Keir would have done a similar thing had he been PM. Just with a different list of suppliers.
Calling him "Sir Keir" has a slightly smarmy feel to it. If you wish to include the title it's better to go for "SKS".
It also prevents my rather unfortunate habit of calling him 'Kier' - after the construction company...
I thought his full name was "SKS-Fans-Please-Explain" ?
So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.
What do you expect - its April. Season should start in May like the good old days!
At least they had some play. Other counties, eg Somerset have had none.
Apologies for the late good morning, but BT have only done half a job of upgrading our internet. The engineers have set everything up, but the new router hasn’t arrived.
That's interesting. Our new router from BT hasn't arrived either (after five weeks). Just an empty-handed engineer who was easily persuaded that I could install it myself if only I could get my hands on it.
Five weeks is nothing. Before privatisation, pre-Maggie, BT would make you wait years for a new router and it needed one of those ghastly CE labels. Now post-privatisation and post-Brexit free-market BT has it down to five weeks.
Well naturally they would make you wait years....the net didnt really go mainstream till late nineties and adsl routers were but a gleam in an engineers eye
On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.
If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.
(Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)
Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
Government VIP lane. There is a difference.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.
But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.
I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.
"It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
He's not, as far as I can tell, saying it was Sir Keir's fault - he's just saying that Sir Keir would have done a similar thing had he been PM. Just with a different list of suppliers.
Yes. With a list of credible suppliers. Not a VIP lane no questions asked no need to actually supply bung to a Tory who has just incorporated a new business to buy something they have no understanding of.
It was open corruption. Diverting resources from actually fighting Covid. Leaving medics screwed when the Ali Baba supply turns up and is useless or doesn't turn up at all.
Very simple this one. Insert a clause that payment is conditional on delivery of the goods to spec. No goods to spec, no money can be kept. But no. Pay the Tory the £107m whether there is PPE that can be used or not. Better still, pay them to store it when it arrives and can't be used!
I know there is partisanship. But its supposed to be the Conservative Party. Surely actual conservatives can't support open corruption like this, its the antithesis of what you are supposed to believe in.
Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.
My wife said it is mushy. I thought it ok. I know nobody cares but amused she told me this 10 minutes before reading the post.
Sainsbury is offering a line of organic milk sold in cardboard cartons, because it's not plastic. I tried one and it does taste exactly the same, as you'd expect. But I still have to overcome instinctive resistance as a consumer to anything different - I see it's a good idea but I don't actually like the look of it. Plastic is so lovely and smooth
Very poor showing by Reform UK. It probably means most of their 6% average in the opinion polls will go the Tories, taking the latter from about 28% to around 32%.
Aren't the stats about 1/2 go Conservative, 1/3 go Labour? Net benefit to Conservatives, but not huge.
In any case, UKIP/Brexit/RefUK have never tried to do that well at local elections, unless there was a strong group of local activists in one place (They did insanely well in Havering in 2014, but it all fell apart four years later.)
Air war has always been their strength, which doesn't need many activists or candidates.
Yes, as with disillusioned folk leaving Labour, there's often a strong antipathy to voting for the former party. I'd expect that in practice lots of disgruntled Tories will simply abstain if there's no RefUk candidate. It's not as if most people have a burning desire to vote in local elections.
I think that eventually there may be quite a few centre-right/moderate returners, once/if the ghost of the Clown is largely laid to rest
Comments
Quite a few more recently dead relatives and friends to take up the slack though.
Then we drink
I almost feel like a fool not doing this myself. I already had one company. Simply incorporate RP MaskPro Ltd, ask the NHS for £107m no questions asked, go on AliBaba, search "facemasks" and make a quick £50m profit. Hell, I'd have happily voted Conservative had they done so.
I can't believe you can set up a Ltd company and just go bust after one transaction without some legal consequences for the directors. Don't you usually have to give some kind of personal guarantee for new companies - at least until the company has a track record?
(Says the teetotaller!)
Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
I come on here to joust. I see it as sport. Keeps the brain agile and passes the time fruitfully - coz I learn stuff
It’s why I don’t kick off with anyone who seems fragile and I always wait for someone else to get
lairy first. At least those are my rules. I’ve probably broken them when sloshed
I found a couple of large Bloody Marys in Stornoway’s County Hotel beforehand helped quite a bit.
Just look at the Phoenix Four. They helped themselves to assets and pensions and their behaviour was deemed "all above board" if morally reprehensible.
A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Richard Madeley once told me half a bottle of champagne is the ideal amount of booze to drink before live TV. No more than that, or you might get squiffy and slur. I figure this is similar
It was a ridiculous sideshow and shameless cronyism to Dyson who lapped up the publicity.
Keep the pound! 🤣🤣🤣
IIRC (@Foxy) the medical advice then pivoted from more ventilators to simpler, less invasive machines?
It is a perfectly valid question for those of us interested in politics before the enquiries report too.
They re-ran the fibre to the street 3 times to get the performance they had promised - an excessive curve was cutting the speed to around a third from the expected 1G/1G
The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.
It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
At the time, everyone was screaming at the government to do whatever it took to get the PPE and damn the cost.
And they did.
But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.
I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
I'll take that as a compliment considering some of our rows. I get them anywhere I can.
Condolences. My dad died in February. You will probably have lots to sort out
Lets see what the enquiries say.
Worth noting too that many of these contracts were signed in the summer of 2020, well after the initial panic on supplies.
It was naked troughing to bung government contracts to their mates.
You suspect one wasn't asked for, but it should have been. We don't really know.
"It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
There was a specific team to contract with third parties. This lady tried it on and got away with it. Good for her.
It’s very easy to criticise with hindsight but the reality is we wanted as much PPE as we could get as fast as we could get it and didn't particularly care how much it cost
The UK government paid a premium price to get the first supply
The French tried to jump the queue and Vygon - quite properly - said “non”
So the French seized the cargo and passed a retrospective ban on all exports of PPE
"It was an emergency", "the French stole our PPE", and "Starmer made a list, it was his fault". I'm sure the best is yet to come.
If we go by the rules of current language, anyone can call themselves an engineer.
The issue is that NHS procurement isn’t centralised (it should be). So procurement was ordering at a hospital / facility / Trust / CCG level.
The contacts were organised centrally and then distributed to the local facilities as a top up supply chain
Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.
In the wider modern sense, which includes complex systems, they utterly are.
(and sympathies to Leon.)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/dec/01/matt-hancock-says-labours-covid-contract-claims-rubbish
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/loda/id/JORFTEXT000041679951
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/03/europe/coronavirus-masks-war-intl/index.html
You can try and put a gloss on it; that's what happened. And I don't think other European countries behave in quite that way. The US did, however, and EuCo had a good try.
She did what every contractor does - if material isn't available from the main supplier immediately, you send someone in a van to Screwfix to get the bolts or whatever you need. Then you add the receipt to the project. Apparently this was Bad Form - she should have waited a week for the big shipment from the Chosen Suppliers.
https://twitter.com/Rainmaker1973/status/1643916721735053313?cxt=HHwWgsC99Y3jrtAtAAAA
"In 1956, the Ateliers de Construction de Motocycles et Automobiles, designed the Vespa 150 TAP, an anti-tank scooter for use with French paratroops."
In any case, UKIP/Brexit/RefUK have never tried to do that well at local elections, unless there was a strong group of local activists in one place (They did insanely well in Havering in 2014, but it all fell apart four years later.)
Air war has always been their strength, which doesn't need many activists or candidates.
Ms Vine complaining "Just paid £23.50 for two sausage rolls at Clapham junction station! Just a normal kiosk. Insane."
Guardian Readers knit their own meat and plastic free alternatives to actually eating food. This is why they all look ill.
Or - we could have got actual PPE companies to get the stuff. They know what they are shopping for which is more than you can say for some of these fly by night creations.
I fear that this is a little reinvention of history. Covid was still gong strong, we were waiting for a second wave, and vaccines were a hope, rather than reality. The government had been slaughtered (both fairly and unfairly) for not having enough PPE, and with the uncertain future to come, it made sense to try to get as much of the stuff in as we could. As did other countries.
It's yet another situation where a government (any government) cannot really get it right. Try to get whatever you can, and waste money and/or get the wrong stuff; or try to get only the right stuff, and end up with little or nothing as demand spikes again.
And this is not government shilling; as I've said all along, I'm blooming glad I never had to make any decisions during this Covid crisis. It was always clear that every decision would be seen as *wrong* by political opponents - who may very well have made the same, or worse, decisions. Or better in some areas and worse in others.
Edit: and to be fair also the G. has a decent website withotu sidebars milking more mammaries than my uncle's dairy parlour, or pop-up videos.
It was open corruption. Diverting resources from actually fighting Covid. Leaving medics screwed when the Ali Baba supply turns up and is useless or doesn't turn up at all.
Very simple this one. Insert a clause that payment is conditional on delivery of the goods to spec. No goods to spec, no money can be kept. But no. Pay the Tory the £107m whether there is PPE that can be used or not. Better still, pay them to store it when it arrives and can't be used!
I know there is partisanship. But its supposed to be the Conservative Party. Surely actual conservatives can't support open corruption like this, its the antithesis of what you are supposed to believe in.