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Sturgeon and SNP – many questions remain – politicalbetting.com

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  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,467

    malcolmg said:

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.

    But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.

    I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
    Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.

    "It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
    I didn't claim it was all Starmer's fault. I don't know why the NHS procurement didn't go direct. All questions for the inquiries. If wrong doing has occurred no-one will be more delighted than me to see it punished. I am just against re-writing history with facts known only after the time.
    Usual guff , lessons will be learned and all the crooks keep their ill gotten spoils after they have wasted 100M and several years paying another bunch of parasites to sit on their arses and talk about it.
    Given the experience of an acquaintance who, working for the government, was forced out of her job for getting a Nightingale hospital completed on schedule*, I think the answer is fairly simple.

    She did what every contractor does - if material isn't available from the main supplier immediately, you send someone in a van to Screwfix to get the bolts or whatever you need. Then you add the receipt to the project. Apparently this was Bad Form - she should have waited a week for the big shipment from the Chosen Suppliers.
    That can make sense in rare circumstances: if the material actually has to meet a spec. If you just need 30mm plasterboard nails, then Screwfix is fine. If you need a nail, screw or nut/bolt that will actually meet a spec for a reason, then it almost never is.

    Sadly, specs often get applied to things that they shouldn't be applied to, massively increasing costs.
  • Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/06/sainsburys-mince-packs-kidney-shoppers-vaccum

    Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.

    What various non-UK markets have supplied beef "grounds" in for years. I'm impressed that JS have done this as its a brave step. Various producers and packaging companies have proposed similar in the past and been told the consumer won't buy it.
  • MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://twitter.com/WestminsterWAG/status/1643594067446571008

    Ms Vine complaining "Just paid £23.50 for two sausage rolls at Clapham junction station! Just a normal kiosk. Insane."

    Strange one.
    London prices.

    The West Cornwall Pasty shop charged me £8.50 for a cheese and onion pasty recently in London.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    How many candidates are Reform UK standing in the locals? In Southampton they are only fielding 5 candidates out of the 17 wards each electing 3 councillors. If they're only giving 1/3 of the electorate the chance to vote for them then it doesn't point to a decent national share of the vote.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,159

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    No the French government blocked exports of PPE temporarily. The company were ready to ship to the UK as per their contract.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    slade said:

    No local by-elections today- or next week. Further to the comments on candidates on May 4th there are some strange cases if you dig down into the local authorities. So for example Lab in Newbury have gone from 43 candidates last time to 15 this time; Conservatives are 16 short in Stockport; and Lib Dems have soared to 65 in Eat Yorkshire. Hours of fun!

    Far from grateful for the entertainment I am furious that Trump and the Murrell/Sturgeons ruined Statement of Persons Nominated Day, the most glorious day of the year.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,157

    Driver said:

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    It's still hindsight.

    At the time, everyone was screaming at the government to do whatever it took to get the PPE and damn the cost.

    And they did.
    And they didn't. We wasted billions of pounds - corruptly handed to mates - who delivered either no PPE at all or PPE that was unusable. That shortfall meant that medics continued to not have enough and continued to be exposed to and in some cases sadly killed by Covid.

    Or - we could have got actual PPE companies to get the stuff. They know what they are shopping for which is more than you can say for some of these fly by night creations.
    Your last paragraph nails it. If they had had the sense to actually employ some people who actually knew about procuring medical products then a lot of time and money could be saved. Instead they were more interested in getting Dyson and Bamford into the headlines to look like they were doing stuff. As for Dildo Harding...don't get me started!
  • Oh dear, hate this when it happens, to any party.

    Tories to lose Ossett seat as councillor pulls out of election race at last minute

    Wakefield’s Conservative group is to lose a council seat after its candidate for Ossett ward has withdrawn from this year’s local elections.

    Angela Taylor decided not to defend her seat on Wakefield Council on the deadline day for nominations on April 4.

    The eleventh-hour decision means the Tory group have been unable to nominate a replacement candidate in time.

    Tony Hames, Wakefield Council’s Conservative group leader, said he was “disgusted” at the timing of his colleague’s decision.


    https://www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news/people/tories-to-lose-ossett-seat-as-councillor-pulls-out-of-election-race-at-last-minute-4094652
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731
    Sunak fans please explain:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,699

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.

    But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.

    I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
    Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.

    "It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
    He's not, as far as I can tell, saying it was Sir Keir's fault - he's just saying that Sir Keir would have done a similar thing had he been PM. Just with a different list of suppliers.
    Hopefully a list including the likes of "3M, Orpian and Hardshell (made in Cardiff)" as opposed to "Uncle Jeff, Aunty Cynthia and that bloke I play skittles with down the pub on a Tuesday"
    I'll have to check after lunch, but IIRC one Labour shadow minister mentioned a specific company in the COmmons and they turned out to be completely unsuitable.
    It was your team's cock up. Own it!
    You're lying again. As you know, I don't have a team.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,699

    Driver said:

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.

    But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.

    I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
    Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.

    "It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
    He's not, as far as I can tell, saying it was Sir Keir's fault - he's just saying that Sir Keir would have done a similar thing had he been PM. Just with a different list of suppliers.
    Yes. With a list of credible suppliers.
    Well, that's your supposition.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    Why were people with no industry experience and little to no capital in the VIP lane? Aside from links to Tory MPs of course.
    This is a key question. VIP lanes and expedited procedures in an emergency is not inherently unreasonable, even with an increased risk as a result. But increased risk doesn't mean free for all, and there do appear to be some odd inclusions.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,574
    edited April 2023
    DM_Andy said:

    How many candidates are Reform UK standing in the locals? In Southampton they are only fielding 5 candidates out of the 17 wards each electing 3 councillors. If they're only giving 1/3 of the electorate the chance to vote for them then it doesn't point to a decent national share of the vote.

    There was a tweet someone posted yesterday with the total number from each party. I can’t remember the exact number but it wasn’t many, much less than 1/3.
  • More anti-Cannuck bigotry here, 'and a Canadian.'


  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,574
    Foxy said:

    Sunak fans please explain:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    Must be concentrated in Islington.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731

    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/06/sainsburys-mince-packs-kidney-shoppers-vaccum

    Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.

    My wife said it is mushy. I thought it ok. I know nobody cares but amused she told me this 10 minutes before reading the post.
    Sainsbury is offering a line of organic milk sold in cardboard cartons, because it's not plastic. I tried one and it does taste exactly the same, as you'd expect. But I still have to overcome instinctive resistance as a consumer to anything different - I see it's a good idea but I don't actually like the look of it. Plastic is so lovely and smooth :)
    SUPs are difficult to avoid, but I do alter my buying as a result of packaging.

    Crisp packets are particularly bad because of the foil and plastic.
  • Foxy said:

    Sunak fans please explain:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    Huge bounce for Starmer for kicking Corbyn out of the party.

    Sunak should kick Boris Johnson out of the party after the partygate report, Sunak will see a similar bounce.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Carnyx said:

    OT: seeing as it is sort of Friday afternoon (being the holiday weekend), here is some light relief for @Dura_Ace and @Malmesbury:

    https://twitter.com/Rainmaker1973/status/1643916721735053313?cxt=HHwWgsC99Y3jrtAtAAAA

    "In 1956, the Ateliers de Construction de Motocycles et Automobiles, designed the Vespa 150 TAP, an anti-tank scooter for use with French paratroops."

    My cousin had a Vespa when we were about 17. I think it is the most dangerous vehicle I've ever operated as the front wheel would chatter like fuck when braking from any speed any higher than 15mph. It had so little torque I had to stand on the seat to wheelie it. When my cousin tried, he fell off and broke his arm. I also did a burnout inside his girlfriend's parent's conservatory on it (they were tories) for which he got the blame. Now he won't lend me his 296GTB.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,135
    kle4 said:

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    Why were people with no industry experience and little to no capital in the VIP lane? Aside from links to Tory MPs of course.
    This is a key question. VIP lanes and expedited procedures in an emergency is not inherently unreasonable, even with an increased risk as a result. But increased risk doesn't mean free for all, and there do appear to be some odd inclusions.
    Yeah, nothing particularly wrong with VIP lane. What is wrong is allowing it to be used as a cover for some huge frauds and lots of terrible commercial agreements, and then claiming the politicians involved should not be held accountable until an inquiry reports, by which time said politicians will be voted out anyway.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited April 2023

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/06/sainsburys-mince-packs-kidney-shoppers-vaccum

    Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.

    What various non-UK markets have supplied beef "grounds" in for years. I'm impressed that JS have done this as its a brave step. Various producers and packaging companies have proposed similar in the past and been told the consumer won't buy it.
    I bought a 1kg pack of that (5% fat) last week, to make a bolognaise/lasagne.

    I was disappointed.

    Texture was rather different to normal. Ended up very mushy. Taste was ok, but texture was just wrong.

    I won’t be buying it again. I recon enough other customers will make the same decision and Sainsbury’s will reverse ferret.

    I’d go:

    Reintroduce original packaging as an option for their standard mince within 6 months: 1/3

    Withdraw the vacuum packs completely within 6 months: Evens
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,258
    kjh said:

    As mentioned earlier I bought a new car. The damn thing is more intelligent than me (now waiting for the obvious replies). I'm gobsmacked by what it can do, most of which is a waste of time.

    Yes I've got a new one after 29 years. I does so much stuff. Feels like a plane cockpit. I don't expect to ever learn more than 10% of it.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,545

    Foxy said:

    Sunak fans please explain:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    Huge bounce for Starmer for kicking Corbyn out of the party.

    Sunak should kick Boris Johnson out of the party after the partygate report, Sunak will see a similar bounce.
    Kudos if he does, but it would be a brave step, Prime Minister.

    Johnson has infected the Conservative movement far more effectively than Corbyn managed to do to Labour.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,759

    ydoethur said:

    So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.

    What do you expect - its April. Season should start in May like the good old days!
    At least they had some play. Other counties, eg Somerset have had none.

    Apologies for the late good morning, but BT have only done half a job of upgrading our internet. The engineers have set everything up, but the new router hasn’t arrived.
    That's interesting. Our new router from BT hasn't arrived either (after five weeks). Just an empty-handed engineer who was easily persuaded that I could install it myself if only I could get my hands on it.
    Five weeks is nothing. Before privatisation, pre-Maggie, BT would make you wait years for a new router and it needed one of those ghastly CE labels. Now post-privatisation and post-Brexit free-market BT has it down to five weeks.
    Yes, the bastards made you wait until they were invented. Cisco was only incorporated two years after that.
    A few modems, perhaps, though not from BT.

    Routers back then were minicomputers programmed for the task.

    You could wait months for a new phone line, of course.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,465
    Foxy said:

    Sunak fans please explain:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    Sadiq critics might also wish to contribute. You rarely see a good word for him here, but a 35% lead seems quite a decent state of play.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,135
    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/06/sainsburys-mince-packs-kidney-shoppers-vaccum

    Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.

    What various non-UK markets have supplied beef "grounds" in for years. I'm impressed that JS have done this as its a brave step. Various producers and packaging companies have proposed similar in the past and been told the consumer won't buy it.
    I bought a 1kg pack of that (5% fat) last week, to make a bolognaise/lasagne.

    I was disappointed.

    Texture was rather different to normal. Ended up very mushy. Taste was ok, but texture was just wrong.

    I won’t be buying it again. I recon enough other customers will make the same decision and Sainsbury’s will reverse ferret.
    Surely ferrets wouldn't make good mince either?
  • Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    So, the championship off to the traditional start. Four balls at Cardiff and they're off for rain.

    What do you expect - its April. Season should start in May like the good old days!
    At least they had some play. Other counties, eg Somerset have had none.

    Apologies for the late good morning, but BT have only done half a job of upgrading our internet. The engineers have set everything up, but the new router hasn’t arrived.
    That's interesting. Our new router from BT hasn't arrived either (after five weeks). Just an empty-handed engineer who was easily persuaded that I could install it myself if only I could get my hands on it.
    Five weeks is nothing. Before privatisation, pre-Maggie, BT would make you wait years for a new router and it needed one of those ghastly CE labels. Now post-privatisation and post-Brexit free-market BT has it down to five weeks.
    Yes, the bastards made you wait until they were invented. Cisco was only incorporated two years after that.
    A few modems, perhaps, though not from BT.

    Routers back then were minicomputers programmed for the task.

    You could wait months for a new phone line, of course.
    In 1981 my father had to wait 9 months for a phone line to be installed, and he was a priority as he was a doctor.

    Back in 2009 BT installed a new phone line in my old property a fortnight after I placed the order.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,271
    edited April 2023
    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/06/sainsburys-mince-packs-kidney-shoppers-vaccum

    Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.

    This, perhaps, is because as it is free online most readers of the Guardian are not Guardian Readers.

    Guardian Readers knit their own meat and plastic free alternatives to actually eating food. This is why they all look ill.

    Excuse me. I've just had bacon, egg and sausage while reading my real-life paper Guardian unfurled on the table.
    Steak tonight.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,455

    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/06/sainsburys-mince-packs-kidney-shoppers-vaccum

    Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.

    My wife said it is mushy. I thought it ok. I know nobody cares but amused she told me this 10 minutes before reading the post.
    Sainsbury is offering a line of organic milk sold in cardboard cartons, because it's not plastic. I tried one and it does taste exactly the same, as you'd expect. But I still have to overcome instinctive resistance as a consumer to anything different - I see it's a good idea but I don't actually like the look of it. Plastic is so lovely and smooth :)
    How odd. To me milk always came in glass or (waxed) cardboard - plastic is new fangled, and, I still feel, rather dodgy because of the lipid-chemical absorption issue ...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551
    ...
    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/06/sainsburys-mince-packs-kidney-shoppers-vaccum

    Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.

    My wife said it is mushy. I thought it ok. I know nobody cares but amused she told me this 10 minutes before reading the post.
    Sainsbury is offering a line of organic milk sold in cardboard cartons, because it's not plastic. I tried one and it does taste exactly the same, as you'd expect. But I still have to overcome instinctive resistance as a consumer to anything different - I see it's a good idea but I don't actually like the look of it. Plastic is so lovely and smooth :)
    SUPs are difficult to avoid, but I do alter my buying as a result of packaging.

    Crisp packets are particularly bad because of the foil and plastic.
    Blame Gary Lineker.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    edited April 2023

    Foxy said:

    Sunak fans please explain:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    Huge bounce for Starmer for kicking Corbyn out of the party.

    Sunak should kick Boris Johnson out of the party after the partygate report, Sunak will see a similar bounce.
    Kudos if he does, but it would be a brave step, Prime Minister.

    Johnson has infected the Conservative movement far more effectively than Corbyn managed to do to Labour.
    Thats because Boris was always mainstream. He held senior positions and was influential before being leader. Corbyn was effectively an outsider despite being in the party for decades, even though the members took to him intensely.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,135

    Foxy said:

    Sunak fans please explain:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    Sadiq critics might also wish to contribute. You rarely see a good word for him here, but a 35% lead seems quite a decent state of play.
    Your typical inner London Labour voter is not represented on here at all. At a guess 80% of pb Londoners are in the top 20% wealth and/or income for Londoners whether Labour or not.
  • Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/06/sainsburys-mince-packs-kidney-shoppers-vaccum

    Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.

    My wife said it is mushy. I thought it ok. I know nobody cares but amused she told me this 10 minutes before reading the post.
    Sainsbury is offering a line of organic milk sold in cardboard cartons, because it's not plastic. I tried one and it does taste exactly the same, as you'd expect. But I still have to overcome instinctive resistance as a consumer to anything different - I see it's a good idea but I don't actually like the look of it. Plastic is so lovely and smooth :)
    How odd. To me milk always came in glass or (waxed) cardboard - plastic is new fangled, and, I still feel, rather dodgy because of the lipid-chemical absorption issue ...
    Just had the Baxters Cullen Skink, so nice. Thank you for the recommendation.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,446
    edited April 2023

    Foxy said:

    Sunak fans please explain:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    Sadiq critics might also wish to contribute. You rarely see a good word for him here, but a 35% lead seems quite a decent state of play.
    Khan's lead is 5% lower than Labour's. That's not great for a Mayor.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977

    Foxy said:

    Sunak fans please explain:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    Sadiq critics might also wish to contribute. You rarely see a good word for him here, but a 35% lead seems quite a decent state of play.
    Maybe, though there seem to be plenty of places in the world, big cities or rural, where someone seems hated and does a bad job, but the same party wins over and over anyway.

    I've no way to judge Sadiq, but it could be true he's awful and yet the party still does better and better. People are weird - the Tories basically wrote off their own candidate last time and he did better than expected.
  • WestieWestie Posts: 426
    edited April 2023
    Options for the state health service:

    1. Jail or at least sack c***s who f*** up, and actually go after "lost" money to get it back. (The same could also be proposed for most of the rest of the public sector.)

    2. Impose lots more management bullshit, with lots of three-letter acronyms, modelled on vague ancestral memories of productive industry but doled out by financial sector consultants because what else is possible?

    Jailing or sacking c***s who f*** up in the public sector is obviously never going to happen, other than with one or two of the most blatant of the blatant who've super-embarrassed themselves and their co-perps somehow, and brought Johnny System into disrepute (the crime of crimes).

    There will be no improvement whatsoever. So let's talk acronyms and process to while away some time.

    What this crap reminds me of is the several supposed efforts to reform the Soviet economy after Stalin and before Gorbachev. None of them worked.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,699
    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/06/sainsburys-mince-packs-kidney-shoppers-vaccum

    Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.

    What various non-UK markets have supplied beef "grounds" in for years. I'm impressed that JS have done this as its a brave step. Various producers and packaging companies have proposed similar in the past and been told the consumer won't buy it.
    I bought a 1kg pack of that (5% fat) last week, to make a bolognaise/lasagne.

    I was disappointed.

    Texture was rather different to normal. Ended up very mushy. Taste was ok, but texture was just wrong.

    I won’t be buying it again. I recon enough other customers will make the same decision and Sainsbury’s will reverse ferret.

    I’d go:

    Reintroduce original packaging as an option for their standard mince within 6 months: 1/3

    Withdraw the vacuum packs completely within 6 months: Evens
    "Minnie" had the same experience, so given we have a choice of supermarkets we'll get our mince from elsewhere.

    Also, presumably this packaging is "soft plastic" and therefore not recyclable at home?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,025
    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    As mentioned earlier I bought a new car. The damn thing is more intelligent than me (now waiting for the obvious replies). I'm gobsmacked by what it can do, most of which is a waste of time.

    Yes I've got a new one after 29 years. I does so much stuff. Feels like a plane cockpit. I don't expect to ever learn more than 10% of it.
    I was saying something similar the other day.
    Cars reached their apogee about 15 years ago. So much has been added since, so pointlessly.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,467

    More anti-Cannuck bigotry here, 'and a Canadian.'


    And the Russians are apparently suffering from major butt-hurt (*) that a Canadian, a woman, and a black person will be going around the Moon before a Russian. In fact, they'll be going our of LEO before any Russian.

    (*) Should that be Major Buttski Painsof?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,070
    Rowley on BBC R London today. Ticks every box from the damage limitation manual.

    All actual allegations are sidestepped by: 'I shall look into this further' (with a nice one where a lady is told to come to him with the details; she said she already had - and had been fobbed off.)

    "This time it will be different."

    The need for uncosted, undefined and unboundaried additional resources to do the job.

    Some change in the law required so that you can sack people (including a meaningless inplication that he ought to be able to oust the jurisdiction of courts).

    Missing:

    What exactly my predecessors got wrong, and why.

    An analysis of 50 years of reviews all promising the same sorts of reform and why exactly we end up with police rapists and rotten apples and victims left to rot.

    Reasons why anyone should believe a word of what he says or any of his promises.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314

    It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.

    What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.

    One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.

    If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?

    Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.

    Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.

    Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
    The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.

    The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?

    When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.

    No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
    There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.

    A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
    Because corruption. None of these Tory spivs knew anything about PPE - it all came off the likes of Ali Baba. So why not cut out the middleman and buy it direct? Or answer the phone to the reputable PPE companies who were repeatedly ignored?

    I almost feel like a fool not doing this myself. I already had one company. Simply incorporate RP MaskPro Ltd, ask the NHS for £107m no questions asked, go on AliBaba, search "facemasks" and make a quick £50m profit. Hell, I'd have happily voted Conservative had they done so.
    The most laughable aspect was when it was suggested that Brexit supporting JCB could make ventilators ffs, and Dyson. None of this was necessary, there were loads of properly qualified ventilator manufacturers and contract manufacturers who were available. Fecking ludicrous.
    The Mercedes F1 engine factory made ten thousand CPAP machines, within a month. Burberry also made tens of thousands of medical gowns, which the medics said were miles better than any gowns they’d ever seen before.

    Right at the start of the pandemic, the worldwide supply chain was utter chaos. That doesn’t mean that the National Audit Office shouldn’t be looking into product not delivered and substandard product, irrespective of who was supplying it. Where there are issues of eg. brand new company that failed to deliver anything, then files should be passed to the Fraud Squad.

    Much of the outrage, however, appears to be directed at people who delivered the agreed product at the agreed price, becuase they managed to get the ear of an NHS manager or a government minister. I can well imagine the Cabinet meeting in early March 2020, where everyone around the table was asked if they knew anyone who knew anyone (who knew anyone) who could get hold of PPE.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,516
    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    As mentioned earlier I bought a new car. The damn thing is more intelligent than me (now waiting for the obvious replies). I'm gobsmacked by what it can do, most of which is a waste of time.

    Yes I've got a new one after 29 years. I does so much stuff. Feels like a plane cockpit. I don't expect to ever learn more than 10% of it.
    Yep. I can drive it or at least park it while I'm not in it. I knew it could do that, but this morning I was waiting behind a van which moved off and before moving I let a little old lady cross the road and the car told me the van had moved. I mean really. It also tells me the price of petrol at all the nearby petrol stations. I don't actually believe it and I'm tempted to drive around just to check.

    The car it is replacing is 13 years old. The next car I'm hoping to buy is 46 years old, provided I can pluck up the courage to buy it.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,699
    Sandpit said:

    It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.

    What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.

    One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.

    If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?

    Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.

    Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.

    Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
    The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.

    The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?

    When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.

    No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
    There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.

    A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
    Because corruption. None of these Tory spivs knew anything about PPE - it all came off the likes of Ali Baba. So why not cut out the middleman and buy it direct? Or answer the phone to the reputable PPE companies who were repeatedly ignored?

    I almost feel like a fool not doing this myself. I already had one company. Simply incorporate RP MaskPro Ltd, ask the NHS for £107m no questions asked, go on AliBaba, search "facemasks" and make a quick £50m profit. Hell, I'd have happily voted Conservative had they done so.
    The most laughable aspect was when it was suggested that Brexit supporting JCB could make ventilators ffs, and Dyson. None of this was necessary, there were loads of properly qualified ventilator manufacturers and contract manufacturers who were available. Fecking ludicrous.
    The Mercedes F1 engine factory made ten thousand CPAP machines, within a month. Burberry also made tens of thousands of medical gowns, which the medics said were miles better than any gowns they’d ever seen before.

    Right at the start of the pandemic, the worldwide supply chain was utter chaos. That doesn’t mean that the National Audit Office shouldn’t be looking into product not delivered and substandard product, irrespective of who was supplying it. Where there are issues of eg. brand new company that failed to deliver anything, then files should be passed to the Fraud Squad.

    Much of the outrage, however, appears to be directed at people who delivered the agreed product at the agreed price, becuase they managed to get the ear of an NHS manager or a government minister. I can well imagine the Cabinet meeting in early March 2020, where everyone around the table was asked if they knew anyone who knew anyone (who knew anyone) who could get hold of PPE.
    Indeed. And the suggestion that had the other side been in power they wouldn't have done exactly the same thing is risible.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,605
    I
    RobD said:

    DM_Andy said:

    How many candidates are Reform UK standing in the locals? In Southampton they are only fielding 5 candidates out of the 17 wards each electing 3 councillors. If they're only giving 1/3 of the electorate the chance to vote for them then it doesn't point to a decent national share of the vote.

    There was a tweet someone posted yesterday with the total number from each party. I can’t remember the exact number but it wasn’t many, much less than 1/3.
    471 or 6%

    I posted a link to this

    https://twitter.com/electionmapsuk/status/1643655792275406850?s=61&t=s0ae0IFncdLS1Dc7J0P_TQ
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,869
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Sunak fans please explain:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    Sadiq critics might also wish to contribute. You rarely see a good word for him here, but a 35% lead seems quite a decent state of play.
    Maybe, though there seem to be plenty of places in the world, big cities or rural, where someone seems hated and does a bad job, but the same party wins over and over anyway.

    I've no way to judge Sadiq, but it could be true he's awful and yet the party still does better and better. People are weird - the Tories basically wrote off their own candidate last time and he did better than expected.
    I think he has a tough hand to play, with Govt blaming him for things he does because of Govt demands, but he's made a number of mistakes.

    I don't see him losing next time.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,135
    Westie said:

    Options for the state health service:

    1. Jail or at least sack c***s who f*** up, and actually go after "lost" money to get it back. (The same could also be proposed for most of the rest of the public sector.)

    2. Impose lots more management bullshit, with lots of three-letter acronyms, modelled on vague ancestral memories of productive industry but doled out by financial sector consultants because what else is possible?

    Jailing or sacking c***s who f*** up in the public sector is obviously never going to happen, other than with one or two of the most blatant of the blatant who've super-embarrassed themselves and their co-perps somehow, and brought Johnny System into disrepute (the crime of crimes).

    There will be no improvement whatsoever. So let's talk acronyms and process to while away some time.

    What this crap reminds me of is the several supposed efforts to reform the Soviet economy after Stalin and before Gorbachev. None of them worked.

    In America, as we are seeing, the authorities do quite often go after white collar criminals including those connected with government in a way we don't over here. Wouldnt be surprised if it is a way for prosecutors and police to get funding (if not it gives them political exposure for future elections as prosecutors mostly elected roles as well as a gateway to mainstream politics).

    Not sure I would want us to follow their structure at all but it does show there are alternatives where white collar fraudsters of the state do prison time.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420
    Carnyx said:

    OT: seeing as it is sort of Friday afternoon (being the holiday weekend), here is some light relief for @Dura_Ace and @Malmesbury:

    https://twitter.com/Rainmaker1973/status/1643916721735053313?cxt=HHwWgsC99Y3jrtAtAAAA

    "In 1956, the Ateliers de Construction de Motocycles et Automobiles, designed the Vespa 150 TAP, an anti-tank scooter for use with French paratroops."

    There was a hilarious photoshop, years back, claiming to be an experimental mashup of Davy Crockett with this.

    Because everyone needs a small nuclear weapon, when riding a scooter.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,799
    Driver said:

    It's still hindsight.

    At the time, everyone was screaming at the government to do whatever it took to get the PPE and damn the cost.

    And they did.

    I think I've mentioned before that it would only be a matter of time before someone called the vaccines a waste of money. In fact I saw that on Twitter yesterday, the unused doses (because we ordered EVERYTHING) were listed as Tory corruption by some moron. I genuinely would be quite delighted if such people dropped dead en masse.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,162
    edited April 2023
    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Sunak fans please explain:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    Sadiq critics might also wish to contribute. You rarely see a good word for him here, but a 35% lead seems quite a decent state of play.
    Maybe, though there seem to be plenty of places in the world, big cities or rural, where someone seems hated and does a bad job, but the same party wins over and over anyway.

    I've no way to judge Sadiq, but it could be true he's awful and yet the party still does better and better. People are weird - the Tories basically wrote off their own candidate last time and he did better than expected.
    I think he has a tough hand to play, with Govt blaming him for things he does because of Govt demands, but he's made a number of mistakes.

    I don't see him losing next time.
    He’s a bed blocker. Four more wasted years. (He gets one or two points for getting rid of Cressida Dick).
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,699
    Taz said:

    I

    RobD said:

    DM_Andy said:

    How many candidates are Reform UK standing in the locals? In Southampton they are only fielding 5 candidates out of the 17 wards each electing 3 councillors. If they're only giving 1/3 of the electorate the chance to vote for them then it doesn't point to a decent national share of the vote.

    There was a tweet someone posted yesterday with the total number from each party. I can’t remember the exact number but it wasn’t many, much less than 1/3.
    471 or 6%

    I posted a link to this

    https://twitter.com/electionmapsuk/status/1643655792275406850?s=61&t=s0ae0IFncdLS1Dc7J0P_TQ

    👩 INDs: 1,870 (23%)
    🏘️ LOCs: 827 (10%)
    ➡️ RFM: 471 (6%)
    🧑‍🔧 TUSC: 254 (3%)
    🏰 HER: 64 (1%)
    💷 UKIP: 45 (1%)
    🔓 FAL: 40 (0%)
    🏵️ YOR: 38 (0%)
    🔴 SDP: 36 (0%)

    Means well over half of wards will only have four parties to choose from - and if other councils are anything like mine, they all agree on the local policies that the voters hate.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,605
    edited April 2023
    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/06/sainsburys-mince-packs-kidney-shoppers-vaccum

    Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.

    What various non-UK markets have supplied beef "grounds" in for years. I'm impressed that JS have done this as its a brave step. Various producers and packaging companies have proposed similar in the past and been told the consumer won't buy it.
    I bought a 1kg pack of that (5% fat) last week, to make a bolognaise/lasagne.

    I was disappointed.

    Texture was rather different to normal. Ended up very mushy. Taste was ok, but texture was just wrong.

    I won’t be buying it again. I recon enough other customers will make the same decision and Sainsbury’s will reverse ferret.

    I’d go:

    Reintroduce original packaging as an option for their standard mince within 6 months: 1/3

    Withdraw the vacuum packs completely within 6 months: Evens
    But they’re SaViNg ThE pLaNeT.

    We’ve had Gousto and hello fresh packs where they vacuum seal the mince. Problem is it doesn’t allow the moisture to escape. Packs of conventional mince have a pad in the bottom. But,as long as you drain the excess moisture when it cooks out then it is okay. Nothing more.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,869
    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/06/sainsburys-mince-packs-kidney-shoppers-vaccum

    Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.

    My wife said it is mushy. I thought it ok. I know nobody cares but amused she told me this 10 minutes before reading the post.
    Sainsbury is offering a line of organic milk sold in cardboard cartons, because it's not plastic. I tried one and it does taste exactly the same, as you'd expect. But I still have to overcome instinctive resistance as a consumer to anything different - I see it's a good idea but I don't actually like the look of it. Plastic is so lovely and smooth :)
    SUPs are difficult to avoid, but I do alter my buying as a result of packaging.

    Crisp packets are particularly bad because of the foil and plastic.
    In Canada milk comes in bags.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420
    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://twitter.com/WestminsterWAG/status/1643594067446571008

    Ms Vine complaining "Just paid £23.50 for two sausage rolls at Clapham junction station! Just a normal kiosk. Insane."

    Strange one.
    May I suggest that

    1) Manual entry of the price by the shop assistant turned 2.35 into 23.50
    2) Barcode entry on the system did similar.

    I always check the machine. Had a few cases over the years of such errors.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,059
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Feeling a bit emotional today. First cricket match since my Dad died. I've only ever been to two matches without him, and we always used to ring up to slag off Gloucestershire's batsmen discuss the day's play during matches.

    It is, if I might make the comment, indeed disconcerting. For me it was whenever some book came out about one of my dad's old ships in the Navy, and it took me a while to stop thinking 'oh, I'll get that for his birthday/Christmas'.
    Today is the actual day of my Dad’s funeral. So I win the filial grief poker game?

    I am grateful to the Sturgeons for providing light entertainment



    For all of the gags and the sparring, genuine condolences.
    You do know I don’t mean 90% of what I say, especially when I get punchy?

    I come on here to joust. I see it as sport. Keeps the brain agile and passes the time fruitfully - coz I learn stuff

    It’s why I don’t kick off with anyone who seems fragile and I always wait for someone else to get
    lairy first. At least those are my rules. I’ve probably broken them when sloshed
    I want to do more than like this, but not sure what to say. It’s one of my favourite posts on here about the ‘rules of engagement’ and I think it sums up well one of the ways the site is enjoyable as well as being very informative. Thanks.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,467

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://twitter.com/WestminsterWAG/status/1643594067446571008

    Ms Vine complaining "Just paid £23.50 for two sausage rolls at Clapham junction station! Just a normal kiosk. Insane."

    Strange one.
    May I suggest that

    1) Manual entry of the price by the shop assistant turned 2.35 into 23.50
    2) Barcode entry on the system did similar.

    I always check the machine. Had a few cases over the years of such errors.
    Or as happened to me once: the previous customer had not paid for their stuff, and mine had been put through at the end of their bill. I'm unsure how the gent serving had managed to let the person go without paying, but never mind...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420

    malcolmg said:

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.

    But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.

    I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
    Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.

    "It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
    I didn't claim it was all Starmer's fault. I don't know why the NHS procurement didn't go direct. All questions for the inquiries. If wrong doing has occurred no-one will be more delighted than me to see it punished. I am just against re-writing history with facts known only after the time.
    Usual guff , lessons will be learned and all the crooks keep their ill gotten spoils after they have wasted 100M and several years paying another bunch of parasites to sit on their arses and talk about it.
    Given the experience of an acquaintance who, working for the government, was forced out of her job for getting a Nightingale hospital completed on schedule*, I think the answer is fairly simple.

    She did what every contractor does - if material isn't available from the main supplier immediately, you send someone in a van to Screwfix to get the bolts or whatever you need. Then you add the receipt to the project. Apparently this was Bad Form - she should have waited a week for the big shipment from the Chosen Suppliers.
    That can make sense in rare circumstances: if the material actually has to meet a spec. If you just need 30mm plasterboard nails, then Screwfix is fine. If you need a nail, screw or nut/bolt that will actually meet a spec for a reason, then it almost never is.

    Sadly, specs often get applied to things that they shouldn't be applied to, massively increasing costs.
    Yup.

    She got hammered (ha) for OKing (among other things) substituting stainless steel 3 inch wood screws for mild steel for putting up light studding wall frames. This was Wasting Money.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,869

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://twitter.com/WestminsterWAG/status/1643594067446571008

    Ms Vine complaining "Just paid £23.50 for two sausage rolls at Clapham junction station! Just a normal kiosk. Insane."

    Strange one.
    London prices.

    The West Cornwall Pasty shop charged me £8.50 for a cheese and onion pasty recently in London.
    No one else has yet evidenced the prices.

    Though I've walked past the pasty shop on St Pancras after observing the menu.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,545
    Driver said:

    Taz said:

    I

    RobD said:

    DM_Andy said:

    How many candidates are Reform UK standing in the locals? In Southampton they are only fielding 5 candidates out of the 17 wards each electing 3 councillors. If they're only giving 1/3 of the electorate the chance to vote for them then it doesn't point to a decent national share of the vote.

    There was a tweet someone posted yesterday with the total number from each party. I can’t remember the exact number but it wasn’t many, much less than 1/3.
    471 or 6%

    I posted a link to this

    https://twitter.com/electionmapsuk/status/1643655792275406850?s=61&t=s0ae0IFncdLS1Dc7J0P_TQ

    👩 INDs: 1,870 (23%)
    🏘️ LOCs: 827 (10%)
    ➡️ RFM: 471 (6%)
    🧑‍🔧 TUSC: 254 (3%)
    🏰 HER: 64 (1%)
    💷 UKIP: 45 (1%)
    🔓 FAL: 40 (0%)
    🏵️ YOR: 38 (0%)
    🔴 SDP: 36 (0%)

    Means well over half of wards will only have four parties to choose from - and if other councils are anything like mine, they all agree on the local policies that the voters hate.
    Though in most cases, that will be because councils are delivering central government policy in your community to a budget where nearly all the income and nearly all the expenditure is defined by central government.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,059
    edited April 2023
    MaxPB said:

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    No the French government blocked exports of PPE temporarily. The company were ready to ship to the UK as per their contract.
    Max good to see you on here. You were quite open a while back about parenting challenges - I’m not dissimilar with a v soon to be 3 year old and a 6 week old. How are you and your wife doing?

    ETA I’m not on here as much as others so apologies if this has already been asked, feel free to ignore!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://twitter.com/WestminsterWAG/status/1643594067446571008

    Ms Vine complaining "Just paid £23.50 for two sausage rolls at Clapham junction station! Just a normal kiosk. Insane."

    Strange one.
    May I suggest that

    1) Manual entry of the price by the shop assistant turned 2.35 into 23.50
    2) Barcode entry on the system did similar.

    I always check the machine. Had a few cases over the years of such errors.
    Or as happened to me once: the previous customer had not paid for their stuff, and mine had been put through at the end of their bill. I'm unsure how the gent serving had managed to let the person go without paying, but never mind...
    Or staff are using it as a "get well" for the till being light - sometimes a customer has left without paying, or left before the payment declined went through.

    High end cocktail bars are notorious for that. The number of times I query a bill and things are dropped with a shrug.....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314
    edited April 2023

    malcolmg said:

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.

    But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.

    I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
    Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.

    "It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
    I didn't claim it was all Starmer's fault. I don't know why the NHS procurement didn't go direct. All questions for the inquiries. If wrong doing has occurred no-one will be more delighted than me to see it punished. I am just against re-writing history with facts known only after the time.
    Usual guff , lessons will be learned and all the crooks keep their ill gotten spoils after they have wasted 100M and several years paying another bunch of parasites to sit on their arses and talk about it.
    Given the experience of an acquaintance who, working for the government, was forced out of her job for getting a Nightingale hospital completed on schedule*, I think the answer is fairly simple.

    She did what every contractor does - if material isn't available from the main supplier immediately, you send someone in a van to Screwfix to get the bolts or whatever you need. Then you add the receipt to the project. Apparently this was Bad Form - she should have waited a week for the big shipment from the Chosen Suppliers.
    That can make sense in rare circumstances: if the material actually has to meet a spec. If you just need 30mm plasterboard nails, then Screwfix is fine. If you need a nail, screw or nut/bolt that will actually meet a spec for a reason, then it almost never is.

    Sadly, specs often get applied to things that they shouldn't be applied to, massively increasing costs.
    If it not going in an aeroplane, a bridge, or a nuclear power station, then the Screwfix supplies are probably okay.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,759
    Zero chance of getting the votes to impeach the fncker, but he should be kicked off the court.

    Clarence Thomas Secretly Accepted Luxury Trips From GOP Donor
    https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-scotus-undisclosed-luxury-travel-gifts-crow
    … In late June 2019, right after the U.S. Supreme Court released its final opinion of the term, Justice Clarence Thomas boarded a large private jet headed to Indonesia. He and his wife were going on vacation: nine days of island-hopping in a volcanic archipelago on a superyacht staffed by a coterie of attendants and a private chef.

    If Thomas had chartered the plane and the 162-foot yacht himself, the total cost of the trip could have exceeded $500,000. Fortunately for him, that wasn’t necessary: He was on vacation with real estate magnate and Republican megadonor Harlan Crow, who owned the jet — and the yacht, too.

    For more than two decades, Thomas has accepted luxury trips virtually every year from the Dallas businessman without disclosing them, documents and interviews show. A public servant who has a salary of $285,000, he has vacationed on Crow’s superyacht around the globe. He flies on Crow’s Bombardier Global 5000 jet. He has gone with Crow to the Bohemian Grove, the exclusive California all-male retreat, and to Crow’s sprawling ranch in East Texas. And Thomas typically spends about a week every summer at Crow’s private resort in the Adirondacks.

    The extent and frequency of Crow’s apparent gifts to Thomas have no known precedent in the modern history of the U.S. Supreme Court.

    These trips appeared nowhere on Thomas’ financial disclosures. His failure to report the flights appears to violate a law passed after Watergate that requires justices, judges, members of Congress and federal officials to disclose most gifts, two ethics law experts said. He also should have disclosed his trips on the yacht, these experts said…
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,544
    Carnyx said:

    https://twitter.com/WestminsterWAG/status/1643594067446571008

    Ms Vine complaining "Just paid £23.50 for two sausage rolls at Clapham junction station! Just a normal kiosk. Insane."

    Must have been charged for something else by accident. Sausage rolls don't cost £11.75 each, even in Clapham.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,759
    edited April 2023
    Given how unpopular the government is, for Labour to contest just 77% of seats, and fail even to put up a single candidate in 15% of wards, is pisspoor.

    Quite a lot of Conservatives will be elected by default.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,910

    ...

    Foxy said:

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    To add to the insult, we are now paying for storage or destruction of that PPE, sometimes to the same companies.

    Worth noting too that many of these contracts were signed in the summer of 2020, well after the initial panic on supplies.

    It was naked troughing to bung government contracts to their mates.
    It is being vigorously defended, tooth and nail on here today, just as Rochdale anticipated it would, by Government shills.

    "It was an emergency", "the French stole our PPE", and "Starmer made a list, it was his fault". I'm sure the best is yet to come.
    See another post re the French - they did steal PPE en route to us, because it was an emergency.
    Driver said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/06/sainsburys-mince-packs-kidney-shoppers-vaccum

    Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.

    What various non-UK markets have supplied beef "grounds" in for years. I'm impressed that JS have done this as its a brave step. Various producers and packaging companies have proposed similar in the past and been told the consumer won't buy it.
    I bought a 1kg pack of that (5% fat) last week, to make a bolognaise/lasagne.

    I was disappointed.

    Texture was rather different to normal. Ended up very mushy. Taste was ok, but texture was just wrong.

    I won’t be buying it again. I recon enough other customers will make the same decision and Sainsbury’s will reverse ferret.

    I’d go:

    Reintroduce original packaging as an option for their standard mince within 6 months: 1/3

    Withdraw the vacuum packs completely within 6 months: Evens
    "Minnie" had the same experience, so given we have a choice of supermarkets we'll get our mince from elsewhere.

    Also, presumably this packaging is "soft plastic" and therefore not recyclable at home?
    We are lucky enough to have a good butcher and get most of our meat from there. If you have one and have time in your week I recommend giving supermarket meat a miss. Some may find it more expensive, but the quality is high and I find it worth it. Plus some supermarket products (e.g. chicken) have water added.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,699

    Driver said:

    Taz said:

    I

    RobD said:

    DM_Andy said:

    How many candidates are Reform UK standing in the locals? In Southampton they are only fielding 5 candidates out of the 17 wards each electing 3 councillors. If they're only giving 1/3 of the electorate the chance to vote for them then it doesn't point to a decent national share of the vote.

    There was a tweet someone posted yesterday with the total number from each party. I can’t remember the exact number but it wasn’t many, much less than 1/3.
    471 or 6%

    I posted a link to this

    https://twitter.com/electionmapsuk/status/1643655792275406850?s=61&t=s0ae0IFncdLS1Dc7J0P_TQ

    👩 INDs: 1,870 (23%)
    🏘️ LOCs: 827 (10%)
    ➡️ RFM: 471 (6%)
    🧑‍🔧 TUSC: 254 (3%)
    🏰 HER: 64 (1%)
    💷 UKIP: 45 (1%)
    🔓 FAL: 40 (0%)
    🏵️ YOR: 38 (0%)
    🔴 SDP: 36 (0%)

    Means well over half of wards will only have four parties to choose from - and if other councils are anything like mine, they all agree on the local policies that the voters hate.
    Though in most cases, that will be because councils are delivering central government policy in your community to a budget where nearly all the income and nearly all the expenditure is defined by central government.
    In which case surely they (especially Labour) should explain that, rather than telling us we're wrong to hate it and it's Actually A Good Thing.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,059
    Driver said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/06/sainsburys-mince-packs-kidney-shoppers-vaccum

    Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.

    What various non-UK markets have supplied beef "grounds" in for years. I'm impressed that JS have done this as its a brave step. Various producers and packaging companies have proposed similar in the past and been told the consumer won't buy it.
    I bought a 1kg pack of that (5% fat) last week, to make a bolognaise/lasagne.

    I was disappointed.

    Texture was rather different to normal. Ended up very mushy. Taste was ok, but texture was just wrong.

    I won’t be buying it again. I recon enough other customers will make the same decision and Sainsbury’s will reverse ferret.

    I’d go:

    Reintroduce original packaging as an option for their standard mince within 6 months: 1/3

    Withdraw the vacuum packs completely within 6 months: Evens
    "Minnie" had the same experience, so given we have a choice of supermarkets we'll get our mince from elsewhere.

    Also, presumably this packaging is "soft plastic" and therefore not recyclable at home?
    Yes but, afaiui even the recyclable stuff degrades sufficiently in the process that the recycled product isn’t that useful (there’s only so many black bags that need to be produced). Can anyone confirm or contradict me (my knowledge is at least a decade out of date and even then only at a journalist level).
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,544

    Foxy said:

    Sunak fans please explain:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    Sadiq critics might also wish to contribute. You rarely see a good word for him here, but a 35% lead seems quite a decent state of play.
    Khan's lead is 5% lower than Labour's. That's not great for a Mayor.
    Doesn't seem that bad given he's the incumbent whereas in Westminster elections Labour are the opposition. I think he's done a solid job, at least he's not done anything obviously stupid like his predecessor did and he's faced a lot of extremely cynical behaviour from the government.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,699

    ...

    Foxy said:

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    To add to the insult, we are now paying for storage or destruction of that PPE, sometimes to the same companies.

    Worth noting too that many of these contracts were signed in the summer of 2020, well after the initial panic on supplies.

    It was naked troughing to bung government contracts to their mates.
    It is being vigorously defended, tooth and nail on here today, just as Rochdale anticipated it would, by Government shills.

    "It was an emergency", "the French stole our PPE", and "Starmer made a list, it was his fault". I'm sure the best is yet to come.
    See another post re the French - they did steal PPE en route to us, because it was an emergency.
    Driver said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/06/sainsburys-mince-packs-kidney-shoppers-vaccum

    Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.

    What various non-UK markets have supplied beef "grounds" in for years. I'm impressed that JS have done this as its a brave step. Various producers and packaging companies have proposed similar in the past and been told the consumer won't buy it.
    I bought a 1kg pack of that (5% fat) last week, to make a bolognaise/lasagne.

    I was disappointed.

    Texture was rather different to normal. Ended up very mushy. Taste was ok, but texture was just wrong.

    I won’t be buying it again. I recon enough other customers will make the same decision and Sainsbury’s will reverse ferret.

    I’d go:

    Reintroduce original packaging as an option for their standard mince within 6 months: 1/3

    Withdraw the vacuum packs completely within 6 months: Evens
    "Minnie" had the same experience, so given we have a choice of supermarkets we'll get our mince from elsewhere.

    Also, presumably this packaging is "soft plastic" and therefore not recyclable at home?
    We are lucky enough to have a good butcher and get most of our meat from there. If you have one and have time in your week I recommend giving supermarket meat a miss. Some may find it more expensive, but the quality is high and I find it worth it. Plus some supermarket products (e.g. chicken) have water added.
    Yeah, time is the difficulty. We don't have the storage space - especially the fridge space, we don't cook much from frozen - to shop only once a week and we don't have time to do an extra trip midweek.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,098
    edited April 2023

    Carnyx said:

    https://twitter.com/WestminsterWAG/status/1643594067446571008

    Ms Vine complaining "Just paid £23.50 for two sausage rolls at Clapham junction station! Just a normal kiosk. Insane."

    Must have been charged for something else by accident. Sausage rolls don't cost £11.75 each, even in Clapham.
    I did buy the most expensive bacon roll I'd ever seen at Clapham Junction recently. £7.50 I think? If its the place I'm thinking off, coffee there is over £3 too. So two sausage baps and two coffees at £23.50 would fit....
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,910
    Snip - blockquotes messed up
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    As mentioned earlier I bought a new car. The damn thing is more intelligent than me (now waiting for the obvious replies). I'm gobsmacked by what it can do, most of which is a waste of time.

    Yes I've got a new one after 29 years. I does so much stuff. Feels like a plane cockpit. I don't expect to ever learn more than 10% of it.
    I was saying something similar the other day.
    Cars reached their apogee about 15 years ago. So much has been added since, so pointlessly.
    I was listening to a bunch of car journalists on a podcast a few weeks ago, and they came to the agreement that “Peak Car” was the 2011 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0. Since then, cars have got heavier, more automated, and less fun.

    Bonus negative points for the modern screens with no buttons, which save money but distract the hell out of the driver when he wants to adjust the heater.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,699
    Mortimer said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://twitter.com/WestminsterWAG/status/1643594067446571008

    Ms Vine complaining "Just paid £23.50 for two sausage rolls at Clapham junction station! Just a normal kiosk. Insane."

    Must have been charged for something else by accident. Sausage rolls don't cost £11.75 each, even in Clapham.
    I did buy the most expensive bacon roll ever at Clapham Junction recently. £7.50 I think? If its the place I'm thinking off, coffee there is over £3 too. So two sausage baps and two coffees at £23.50 would fit....
    The idea that a place at Clapham Junction (presumably at the station) is "just a normal kiosk" is bizarre, tbh.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,544
    Mortimer said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://twitter.com/WestminsterWAG/status/1643594067446571008

    Ms Vine complaining "Just paid £23.50 for two sausage rolls at Clapham junction station! Just a normal kiosk. Insane."

    Must have been charged for something else by accident. Sausage rolls don't cost £11.75 each, even in Clapham.
    I did buy the most expensive bacon roll I'd ever seen at Clapham Junction recently. £7.50 I think? If its the place I'm thinking off, coffee there is over £3 too. So two sausage baps and two coffees at £23.50 would fit....
    But not two sausage rolls on their own.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,977
    Nigelb said:

    Zero chance of getting the votes to impeach the fncker, but he should be kicked off the court.

    Clarence Thomas Secretly Accepted Luxury Trips From GOP Donor
    https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-scotus-undisclosed-luxury-travel-gifts-crow
    … In late June 2019, right after the U.S. Supreme Court released its final opinion of the term, Justice Clarence Thomas boarded a large private jet headed to Indonesia. He and his wife were going on vacation: nine days of island-hopping in a volcanic archipelago on a superyacht staffed by a coterie of attendants and a private chef.

    If Thomas had chartered the plane and the 162-foot yacht himself, the total cost of the trip could have exceeded $500,000. Fortunately for him, that wasn’t necessary: He was on vacation with real estate magnate and Republican megadonor Harlan Crow, who owned the jet — and the yacht, too.

    For more than two decades, Thomas has accepted luxury trips virtually every year from the Dallas businessman without disclosing them, documents and interviews show. A public servant who has a salary of $285,000, he has vacationed on Crow’s superyacht around the globe. He flies on Crow’s Bombardier Global 5000 jet. He has gone with Crow to the Bohemian Grove, the exclusive California all-male retreat, and to Crow’s sprawling ranch in East Texas. And Thomas typically spends about a week every summer at Crow’s private resort in the Adirondacks.

    The extent and frequency of Crow’s apparent gifts to Thomas have no known precedent in the modern history of the U.S. Supreme Court.

    These trips appeared nowhere on Thomas’ financial disclosures. His failure to report the flights appears to violate a law passed after Watergate that requires justices, judges, members of Congress and federal officials to disclose most gifts, two ethics law experts said. He also should have disclosed his trips on the yacht, these experts said…

    But does it violate the most important law and judicial rule of all - his politics are correct?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,869
    edited April 2023

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Sunak fans please explain:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    Sadiq critics might also wish to contribute. You rarely see a good word for him here, but a 35% lead seems quite a decent state of play.
    Maybe, though there seem to be plenty of places in the world, big cities or rural, where someone seems hated and does a bad job, but the same party wins over and over anyway.

    I've no way to judge Sadiq, but it could be true he's awful and yet the party still does better and better. People are weird - the Tories basically wrote off their own candidate last time and he did better than expected.
    I think he has a tough hand to play, with Govt blaming him for things he does because of Govt demands, but he's made a number of mistakes.

    I don't see him losing next time.
    He’s a bed blocker. Four more wasted years. (He gets one or two points for getting rid of Cressida Dick).
    I'm wrong there aren't I - he can't stand again.

    Two term limit?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,098
    Driver said:

    Mortimer said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://twitter.com/WestminsterWAG/status/1643594067446571008

    Ms Vine complaining "Just paid £23.50 for two sausage rolls at Clapham junction station! Just a normal kiosk. Insane."

    Must have been charged for something else by accident. Sausage rolls don't cost £11.75 each, even in Clapham.
    I did buy the most expensive bacon roll ever at Clapham Junction recently. £7.50 I think? If its the place I'm thinking off, coffee there is over £3 too. So two sausage baps and two coffees at £23.50 would fit....
    The idea that a place at Clapham Junction (presumably at the station) is "just a normal kiosk" is bizarre, tbh.
    The one I'm thinking about really is.

    Cake shop - was pricey before, now, as the only Kiosk on the bridge, it is sky high.....
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,157
    I am amused that the money that the SNP raised was £666k
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited April 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    As mentioned earlier I bought a new car. The damn thing is more intelligent than me (now waiting for the obvious replies). I'm gobsmacked by what it can do, most of which is a waste of time.

    Yes I've got a new one after 29 years. I does so much stuff. Feels like a plane cockpit. I don't expect to ever learn more than 10% of it.
    I was saying something similar the other day.
    Cars reached their apogee about 15 years ago. So much has been added since, so pointlessly.
    I was listening to a bunch of car journalists on a podcast a few weeks ago, and they came to the agreement that “Peak Car” was the 2011 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0. Since then, cars have got heavier, more automated, and less fun.

    Bonus negative points for the modern screens with no buttons, which save money but distract the hell out of the driver when he wants to adjust the heater.
    Peak budget car must surely be 2008-2020.

    The Fiat panda, 108/c1/aygo, Hyundai i10 etc.

    Cost almost nothing to buy, cheap to insure, little to go wrong. Fast enough for normal use within the speed limit. Built to historically high safety standards. After ~100 years of development the industry had refined the mechanics and ironed out the most common issues of rust etc so they last forever or until an accident.

    My dad bought a brand new Fiat panda for £4.9k in 2011. He got himself a bargain, there.

    I inherited it when he died and see no reason why it can’t keep going for another 5 years+.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,631
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Sunak fans please explain:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    Sadiq critics might also wish to contribute. You rarely see a good word for him here, but a 35% lead seems quite a decent state of play.
    Maybe, though there seem to be plenty of places in the world, big cities or rural, where someone seems hated and does a bad job, but the same party wins over and over anyway.

    I've no way to judge Sadiq, but it could be true he's awful and yet the party still does better and better. People are weird - the Tories basically wrote off their own candidate last time and he did better than expected.
    I think he has a tough hand to play, with Govt blaming him for things he does because of Govt demands, but he's made a number of mistakes.

    I don't see him losing next time.
    He’s a bed blocker. Four more wasted years. (He gets one or two points for getting rid of Cressida Dick).
    I'm wrong there aren't I - he can't stand again.

    Two term limit?
    There are no term limits on London mayors. Ken Livingstone stood again in 2008 and 2012.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,025
    Driver said:

    ...

    Foxy said:

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    To add to the insult, we are now paying for storage or destruction of that PPE, sometimes to the same companies.

    Worth noting too that many of these contracts were signed in the summer of 2020, well after the initial panic on supplies.

    It was naked troughing to bung government contracts to their mates.
    It is being vigorously defended, tooth and nail on here today, just as Rochdale anticipated it would, by Government shills.

    "It was an emergency", "the French stole our PPE", and "Starmer made a list, it was his fault". I'm sure the best is yet to come.
    See another post re the French - they did steal PPE en route to us, because it was an emergency.
    Driver said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/06/sainsburys-mince-packs-kidney-shoppers-vaccum

    Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.

    What various non-UK markets have supplied beef "grounds" in for years. I'm impressed that JS have done this as its a brave step. Various producers and packaging companies have proposed similar in the past and been told the consumer won't buy it.
    I bought a 1kg pack of that (5% fat) last week, to make a bolognaise/lasagne.

    I was disappointed.

    Texture was rather different to normal. Ended up very mushy. Taste was ok, but texture was just wrong.

    I won’t be buying it again. I recon enough other customers will make the same decision and Sainsbury’s will reverse ferret.

    I’d go:

    Reintroduce original packaging as an option for their standard mince within 6 months: 1/3

    Withdraw the vacuum packs completely within 6 months: Evens
    "Minnie" had the same experience, so given we have a choice of supermarkets we'll get our mince from elsewhere.

    Also, presumably this packaging is "soft plastic" and therefore not recyclable at home?
    We are lucky enough to have a good butcher and get most of our meat from there. If you have one and have time in your week I recommend giving supermarket meat a miss. Some may find it more expensive, but the quality is high and I find it worth it. Plus some supermarket products (e.g. chicken) have water added.
    Yeah, time is the difficulty. We don't have the storage space - especially the fridge space, we don't cook much from frozen - to shop only once a week and we don't have time to do an extra trip midweek.
    Supermarket bacon is bafflingly awful. It's worth going to the butcher for that alone.
    Supermarket sausages used to be brilliant but about 18 months ago changed and are now weird and unpleasant. Butcher's for those too nowadays.
    Supermarket steak is still pretty good but I'm sure they'll find a way to value engineer the quality away there too.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314
    edited April 2023

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://twitter.com/WestminsterWAG/status/1643594067446571008

    Ms Vine complaining "Just paid £23.50 for two sausage rolls at Clapham junction station! Just a normal kiosk. Insane."

    Strange one.
    May I suggest that

    1) Manual entry of the price by the shop assistant turned 2.35 into 23.50
    2) Barcode entry on the system did similar.

    I always check the machine. Had a few cases over the years of such errors.
    Yup. I used for work for a point-of-sale system software company, and we used to get all sorts of weird support calls about things not working as expected. 99% of which were human error on the customer side.

    Take your pick from: the price was programmed wrong by the office, the quantity was input as 22 instead of 2, the POS and the CC machine weren’t linked and the cashier mistyped, cashier trying to skim the till and hoping the customer won’t notice, it was a ‘tourist price’ set deliberately, two bills rung together by accident, or deliberately, with the cashier making a refund to themself right after the customer walks away.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,699
    Mortimer said:

    Driver said:

    Mortimer said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://twitter.com/WestminsterWAG/status/1643594067446571008

    Ms Vine complaining "Just paid £23.50 for two sausage rolls at Clapham junction station! Just a normal kiosk. Insane."

    Must have been charged for something else by accident. Sausage rolls don't cost £11.75 each, even in Clapham.
    I did buy the most expensive bacon roll ever at Clapham Junction recently. £7.50 I think? If its the place I'm thinking off, coffee there is over £3 too. So two sausage baps and two coffees at £23.50 would fit....
    The idea that a place at Clapham Junction (presumably at the station) is "just a normal kiosk" is bizarre, tbh.
    The one I'm thinking about really is.

    Cake shop - was pricey before, now, as the only Kiosk on the bridge, it is sky high.....
    Oh, I think I know the one. Yeah, the location (especially with all the people making SE-SN connections) makes it not normal.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,631
    Cookie said:

    Driver said:

    ...

    Foxy said:

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    To add to the insult, we are now paying for storage or destruction of that PPE, sometimes to the same companies.

    Worth noting too that many of these contracts were signed in the summer of 2020, well after the initial panic on supplies.

    It was naked troughing to bung government contracts to their mates.
    It is being vigorously defended, tooth and nail on here today, just as Rochdale anticipated it would, by Government shills.

    "It was an emergency", "the French stole our PPE", and "Starmer made a list, it was his fault". I'm sure the best is yet to come.
    See another post re the French - they did steal PPE en route to us, because it was an emergency.
    Driver said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/06/sainsburys-mince-packs-kidney-shoppers-vaccum

    Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.

    What various non-UK markets have supplied beef "grounds" in for years. I'm impressed that JS have done this as its a brave step. Various producers and packaging companies have proposed similar in the past and been told the consumer won't buy it.
    I bought a 1kg pack of that (5% fat) last week, to make a bolognaise/lasagne.

    I was disappointed.

    Texture was rather different to normal. Ended up very mushy. Taste was ok, but texture was just wrong.

    I won’t be buying it again. I recon enough other customers will make the same decision and Sainsbury’s will reverse ferret.

    I’d go:

    Reintroduce original packaging as an option for their standard mince within 6 months: 1/3

    Withdraw the vacuum packs completely within 6 months: Evens
    "Minnie" had the same experience, so given we have a choice of supermarkets we'll get our mince from elsewhere.

    Also, presumably this packaging is "soft plastic" and therefore not recyclable at home?
    We are lucky enough to have a good butcher and get most of our meat from there. If you have one and have time in your week I recommend giving supermarket meat a miss. Some may find it more expensive, but the quality is high and I find it worth it. Plus some supermarket products (e.g. chicken) have water added.
    Yeah, time is the difficulty. We don't have the storage space - especially the fridge space, we don't cook much from frozen - to shop only once a week and we don't have time to do an extra trip midweek.
    Supermarket bacon is bafflingly awful. It's worth going to the butcher for that alone.
    Supermarket sausages used to be brilliant but about 18 months ago changed and are now weird and unpleasant. Butcher's for those too nowadays.
    Supermarket steak is still pretty good but I'm sure they'll find a way to value engineer the quality away there too.
    Which supermarket? Morrisons used to be very good but their butcher section has been hammered recently. The collapse in quality is really noticeable.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,699
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Sunak fans please explain:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    Sadiq critics might also wish to contribute. You rarely see a good word for him here, but a 35% lead seems quite a decent state of play.
    Maybe, though there seem to be plenty of places in the world, big cities or rural, where someone seems hated and does a bad job, but the same party wins over and over anyway.

    I've no way to judge Sadiq, but it could be true he's awful and yet the party still does better and better. People are weird - the Tories basically wrote off their own candidate last time and he did better than expected.
    I think he has a tough hand to play, with Govt blaming him for things he does because of Govt demands, but he's made a number of mistakes.

    I don't see him losing next time.
    He’s a bed blocker. Four more wasted years. (He gets one or two points for getting rid of Cressida Dick).
    I'm wrong there aren't I - he can't stand again.

    Two term limit?
    There are no term limits on London mayors. Ken Livingstone stood again in 2008 and 2012.
    This is true, but the assumption has always been AFAICT that he wants to get back into parliament. He could stand in an October 2023 general election and then stand down as Mayor in May 2024, right?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,730
    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Driver said:

    ...

    Foxy said:

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    To add to the insult, we are now paying for storage or destruction of that PPE, sometimes to the same companies.

    Worth noting too that many of these contracts were signed in the summer of 2020, well after the initial panic on supplies.

    It was naked troughing to bung government contracts to their mates.
    It is being vigorously defended, tooth and nail on here today, just as Rochdale anticipated it would, by Government shills.

    "It was an emergency", "the French stole our PPE", and "Starmer made a list, it was his fault". I'm sure the best is yet to come.
    See another post re the French - they did steal PPE en route to us, because it was an emergency.
    Driver said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/06/sainsburys-mince-packs-kidney-shoppers-vaccum

    Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.

    What various non-UK markets have supplied beef "grounds" in for years. I'm impressed that JS have done this as its a brave step. Various producers and packaging companies have proposed similar in the past and been told the consumer won't buy it.
    I bought a 1kg pack of that (5% fat) last week, to make a bolognaise/lasagne.

    I was disappointed.

    Texture was rather different to normal. Ended up very mushy. Taste was ok, but texture was just wrong.

    I won’t be buying it again. I recon enough other customers will make the same decision and Sainsbury’s will reverse ferret.

    I’d go:

    Reintroduce original packaging as an option for their standard mince within 6 months: 1/3

    Withdraw the vacuum packs completely within 6 months: Evens
    "Minnie" had the same experience, so given we have a choice of supermarkets we'll get our mince from elsewhere.

    Also, presumably this packaging is "soft plastic" and therefore not recyclable at home?
    We are lucky enough to have a good butcher and get most of our meat from there. If you have one and have time in your week I recommend giving supermarket meat a miss. Some may find it more expensive, but the quality is high and I find it worth it. Plus some supermarket products (e.g. chicken) have water added.
    Yeah, time is the difficulty. We don't have the storage space - especially the fridge space, we don't cook much from frozen - to shop only once a week and we don't have time to do an extra trip midweek.
    Supermarket bacon is bafflingly awful. It's worth going to the butcher for that alone.
    Supermarket sausages used to be brilliant but about 18 months ago changed and are now weird and unpleasant. Butcher's for those too nowadays.
    Supermarket steak is still pretty good but I'm sure they'll find a way to value engineer the quality away there too.
    Which supermarket? Morrisons used to be very good but their butcher section has been hammered recently. The collapse in quality is really noticeable.
    M&S steak is still very good.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314

    malcolmg said:

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.

    But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.

    I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
    Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.

    "It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
    I didn't claim it was all Starmer's fault. I don't know why the NHS procurement didn't go direct. All questions for the inquiries. If wrong doing has occurred no-one will be more delighted than me to see it punished. I am just against re-writing history with facts known only after the time.
    Usual guff , lessons will be learned and all the crooks keep their ill gotten spoils after they have wasted 100M and several years paying another bunch of parasites to sit on their arses and talk about it.
    Given the experience of an acquaintance who, working for the government, was forced out of her job for getting a Nightingale hospital completed on schedule*, I think the answer is fairly simple.

    She did what every contractor does - if material isn't available from the main supplier immediately, you send someone in a van to Screwfix to get the bolts or whatever you need. Then you add the receipt to the project. Apparently this was Bad Form - she should have waited a week for the big shipment from the Chosen Suppliers.
    That can make sense in rare circumstances: if the material actually has to meet a spec. If you just need 30mm plasterboard nails, then Screwfix is fine. If you need a nail, screw or nut/bolt that will actually meet a spec for a reason, then it almost never is.

    Sadly, specs often get applied to things that they shouldn't be applied to, massively increasing costs.
    Yup.

    She got hammered (ha) for OKing (among other things) substituting stainless steel 3 inch wood screws for mild steel for putting up light studding wall frames. This was Wasting Money.
    If she’s hammering screws, she’s doing it wrong.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,545
    Sean_F said:

    Given how unpopular the government is, for Labour to contest just 77% of seats, and fail even to put up a single candidate in 15% of wards, is pisspoor.

    Quite a lot of Conservatives will be elected by default.

    Bear in mind the map for this year's elections;

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_United_Kingdom_local_elections

    It's the year where rural English districts tend to do all-out elections. Lots of seats where Labour really don't have a chance and may not even have a handful of activists.

    It's not a good show, but I get the pragmatic reality.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,631
    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Sunak fans please explain:

    Labour now have a 40pt lead over the Conservatives in London Westminster VI, the highest since YouGov started tracking in 2010 (fieldwork 27-31 Mar)

    Con: 18% (-5 from Jan 2022)
    Lab: 58% (+3)
    Lib Dem: 9% (=)
    Green: 7% (=)
    Reform UK: 6% (+3)

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    Sadiq critics might also wish to contribute. You rarely see a good word for him here, but a 35% lead seems quite a decent state of play.
    Maybe, though there seem to be plenty of places in the world, big cities or rural, where someone seems hated and does a bad job, but the same party wins over and over anyway.

    I've no way to judge Sadiq, but it could be true he's awful and yet the party still does better and better. People are weird - the Tories basically wrote off their own candidate last time and he did better than expected.
    I think he has a tough hand to play, with Govt blaming him for things he does because of Govt demands, but he's made a number of mistakes.

    I don't see him losing next time.
    He’s a bed blocker. Four more wasted years. (He gets one or two points for getting rid of Cressida Dick).
    I'm wrong there aren't I - he can't stand again.

    Two term limit?
    There are no term limits on London mayors. Ken Livingstone stood again in 2008 and 2012.
    This is true, but the assumption has always been AFAICT that he wants to get back into parliament. He could stand in an October 2023 general election and then stand down as Mayor in May 2024, right?
    Yes. And I would tend to agree if he stays longer as mayor it will probably hamper his reputation if he wants to get to cabinet level as twelve years treading water is never a good look.

    Any markets on possible replacements? Very hard to see the Labour candidate losing, whoever it is.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420
    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.

    But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.

    I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
    Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.

    "It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
    I didn't claim it was all Starmer's fault. I don't know why the NHS procurement didn't go direct. All questions for the inquiries. If wrong doing has occurred no-one will be more delighted than me to see it punished. I am just against re-writing history with facts known only after the time.
    Usual guff , lessons will be learned and all the crooks keep their ill gotten spoils after they have wasted 100M and several years paying another bunch of parasites to sit on their arses and talk about it.
    Given the experience of an acquaintance who, working for the government, was forced out of her job for getting a Nightingale hospital completed on schedule*, I think the answer is fairly simple.

    She did what every contractor does - if material isn't available from the main supplier immediately, you send someone in a van to Screwfix to get the bolts or whatever you need. Then you add the receipt to the project. Apparently this was Bad Form - she should have waited a week for the big shipment from the Chosen Suppliers.
    That can make sense in rare circumstances: if the material actually has to meet a spec. If you just need 30mm plasterboard nails, then Screwfix is fine. If you need a nail, screw or nut/bolt that will actually meet a spec for a reason, then it almost never is.

    Sadly, specs often get applied to things that they shouldn't be applied to, massively increasing costs.
    Yup.

    She got hammered (ha) for OKing (among other things) substituting stainless steel 3 inch wood screws for mild steel for putting up light studding wall frames. This was Wasting Money.
    If she’s hammering screws, she’s doing it wrong.
    Not necessarily - https://www.orbitalfasteners.co.uk/categories/stainless-steel-a2-hammer-fixings?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0PW4j6-V_gIVSrTtCh0jJghnEAAYAiAAEgLg-_D_BwE

    I've used these, they can hold a lot if done right and are very ,very quick to install. The trick is drilling the right size of hole.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,699
    Cookie said:

    Driver said:

    ...

    Foxy said:

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker than us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    To add to the insult, we are now paying for storage or destruction of that PPE, sometimes to the same companies.

    Worth noting too that many of these contracts were signed in the summer of 2020, well after the initial panic on supplies.

    It was naked troughing to bung government contracts to their mates.
    It is being vigorously defended, tooth and nail on here today, just as Rochdale anticipated it would, by Government shills.

    "It was an emergency", "the French stole our PPE", and "Starmer made a list, it was his fault". I'm sure the best is yet to come.
    See another post re the French - they did steal PPE en route to us, because it was an emergency.
    Driver said:

    ping said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/06/sainsburys-mince-packs-kidney-shoppers-vaccum

    Contrary to myth, perhaps, today's most viewed Gruaniad story is about Sainsburys vacuum-packing mince to make it more compact, use less plastic, etc.

    What various non-UK markets have supplied beef "grounds" in for years. I'm impressed that JS have done this as its a brave step. Various producers and packaging companies have proposed similar in the past and been told the consumer won't buy it.
    I bought a 1kg pack of that (5% fat) last week, to make a bolognaise/lasagne.

    I was disappointed.

    Texture was rather different to normal. Ended up very mushy. Taste was ok, but texture was just wrong.

    I won’t be buying it again. I recon enough other customers will make the same decision and Sainsbury’s will reverse ferret.

    I’d go:

    Reintroduce original packaging as an option for their standard mince within 6 months: 1/3

    Withdraw the vacuum packs completely within 6 months: Evens
    "Minnie" had the same experience, so given we have a choice of supermarkets we'll get our mince from elsewhere.

    Also, presumably this packaging is "soft plastic" and therefore not recyclable at home?
    We are lucky enough to have a good butcher and get most of our meat from there. If you have one and have time in your week I recommend giving supermarket meat a miss. Some may find it more expensive, but the quality is high and I find it worth it. Plus some supermarket products (e.g. chicken) have water added.
    Yeah, time is the difficulty. We don't have the storage space - especially the fridge space, we don't cook much from frozen - to shop only once a week and we don't have time to do an extra trip midweek.
    Supermarket bacon is bafflingly awful. It's worth going to the butcher for that alone.
    Supermarket sausages used to be brilliant but about 18 months ago changed and are now weird and unpleasant. Butcher's for those too nowadays.
    Supermarket steak is still pretty good but I'm sure they'll find a way to value engineer the quality away there too.
    Sausages are one thing where I will always buy the premium range on. There's a butcher reasonably close to me but he closes at 2pm (and isn't open on a Sunday) so it's a trip we'll have to plan.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,157
    Sandpit said:

    It didn't get enough attention yesterday because of the AC12 raid on Sturgeon. But the Scott Mince Benton story is beautiful. Caught red handed attempting to whore himself to a pretend gambling investor. Not just cash for questions but illegal access to unpublished reports.

    What a spanner - doesn't he understand that you can't do that kind of thing? Extraordinarily he claims another 10 such lobbying operations are happening at any given time.

    One of the joys of the Major era was buying the Sunday Times (which I used to do) and devouring mega scoops like the last Tory cash for questions scandal.

    If I remember that and know you can't ask questions for cash, why don't actual MPs like Mr Mince?

    Don't you think the Johnson years so debased the notion of political public service that Scott Benton loses the whip for five minutes and we just shrug our shoulders? In his case fate has taken a hand and as a result of boundary changes he most likely won't be standing next time.

    Perhaps Scotland has taught us that there may be consequences for those suspected of pilfering the cash register, and expect a circus bigtop to be erected in the front gardens of suspects when the police come looking for bank statements. Maybe normal service is being resumed.

    Or maybe not... how has no one involved in the PPE scandal had a blue tent erected on their lawn?
    The stench of Tory corruption over PPE will be strong enough to allow for a big enquiry to be commissioned by PM Starmer.

    The usual howler monkeys will screech about how Labour backed PPE companies who didn't have any PPE. Even if that was the case - and it isn't - what is the excuse for handing out £107m contracts to a company formed days ago by someone with no clue about PPE which had no clawback clauses?

    When they failed to deliver useable PPE the money should have been returned. Even a boilerplate emergency contract would have that inserted into it.

    No, what we have instead is open corruption. Cash for nothing, stolen from taxpayers and handed to the right people in exchange for nothing. With the excuse of "saving lives" even as the PPE shortage their unusable shit created killed medics.
    There was one interview I saw last year. I can't recall the source.

    A woman in her twenties was being interviewed, she had no prior experience of PPE supply but applied to join the fast track suppliers list. She explained she won a contract to supply a specified number of masks at her quoted price of circa £800k for the delivered consignment. She made an order through Ali Baba and her invoice from the Chinese Supplier was circa £400k. NHS procurement paid half the full fee on confirmation of their order to her, so she duly Swift paid her invoice to the Chinese supplier requesting a direct delivery to the prescribed NHS stores address. So are you still with me? This lady has at this point paid not a penny of her money to her supplier, she has only paid her supplier with NHS money. All she now has to do is wait for the shipment to arrive with NHS stores and the NHS will pay her a £400k free-money profit. Now I don't blame the lady, infact hats off to her. My question is; why did we need start-up companies with connections to Ministers taking an enormous cut of public funds behind the safety curtain of "an emergency", when NHS procurement officers could have themselves logged on to Ali Baba and ordered masks at half the price?
    Because corruption. None of these Tory spivs knew anything about PPE - it all came off the likes of Ali Baba. So why not cut out the middleman and buy it direct? Or answer the phone to the reputable PPE companies who were repeatedly ignored?

    I almost feel like a fool not doing this myself. I already had one company. Simply incorporate RP MaskPro Ltd, ask the NHS for £107m no questions asked, go on AliBaba, search "facemasks" and make a quick £50m profit. Hell, I'd have happily voted Conservative had they done so.
    The most laughable aspect was when it was suggested that Brexit supporting JCB could make ventilators ffs, and Dyson. None of this was necessary, there were loads of properly qualified ventilator manufacturers and contract manufacturers who were available. Fecking ludicrous.
    The Mercedes F1 engine factory made ten thousand CPAP machines, within a month. Burberry also made tens of thousands of medical gowns, which the medics said were miles better than any gowns they’d ever seen before.

    Right at the start of the pandemic, the worldwide supply chain was utter chaos. That doesn’t mean that the National Audit Office shouldn’t be looking into product not delivered and substandard product, irrespective of who was supplying it. Where there are issues of eg. brand new company that failed to deliver anything, then files should be passed to the Fraud Squad.

    Much of the outrage, however, appears to be directed at people who delivered the agreed product at the agreed price, becuase they managed to get the ear of an NHS manager or a government minister. I can well imagine the Cabinet meeting in early March 2020, where everyone around the table was asked if they knew anyone who knew anyone (who knew anyone) who could get hold of PPE.
    Oh dear, sorry but you have been duped by the populist propaganda machine. Maclaren already had a very impressive medical device business, so this was not a pivot on their behalf. Sorry to those that liked your post, but that is a fact.

    As for Burberry, I have no knowledge of that, if it genuinely is an exception, so cannot comment. It is certainly a lot easier to make class 1 medical devices such as gowns if you have a knowledge of textiles, than the ludicrous assumption that a vacuum cleaner maker or JCB can make a class 3 medical device such as a ventilator. My original analysis is sound.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,910
    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.

    But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.

    I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
    Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.

    "It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
    I didn't claim it was all Starmer's fault. I don't know why the NHS procurement didn't go direct. All questions for the inquiries. If wrong doing has occurred no-one will be more delighted than me to see it punished. I am just against re-writing history with facts known only after the time.
    Usual guff , lessons will be learned and all the crooks keep their ill gotten spoils after they have wasted 100M and several years paying another bunch of parasites to sit on their arses and talk about it.
    Given the experience of an acquaintance who, working for the government, was forced out of her job for getting a Nightingale hospital completed on schedule*, I think the answer is fairly simple.

    She did what every contractor does - if material isn't available from the main supplier immediately, you send someone in a van to Screwfix to get the bolts or whatever you need. Then you add the receipt to the project. Apparently this was Bad Form - she should have waited a week for the big shipment from the Chosen Suppliers.
    That can make sense in rare circumstances: if the material actually has to meet a spec. If you just need 30mm plasterboard nails, then Screwfix is fine. If you need a nail, screw or nut/bolt that will actually meet a spec for a reason, then it almost never is.

    Sadly, specs often get applied to things that they shouldn't be applied to, massively increasing costs.
    Yup.

    She got hammered (ha) for OKing (among other things) substituting stainless steel 3 inch wood screws for mild steel for putting up light studding wall frames. This was Wasting Money.
    If she’s hammering screws, she’s doing it wrong.
    My dad always calls nails, Manchester screws for some reason. No idea why. He did briefly work for Westinghouse in the 60's.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 618
    Taz said:

    I

    RobD said:

    DM_Andy said:

    How many candidates are Reform UK standing in the locals? In Southampton they are only fielding 5 candidates out of the 17 wards each electing 3 councillors. If they're only giving 1/3 of the electorate the chance to vote for them then it doesn't point to a decent national share of the vote.

    There was a tweet someone posted yesterday with the total number from each party. I can’t remember the exact number but it wasn’t many, much less than 1/3.
    471 or 6%

    I posted a link to this

    https://twitter.com/electionmapsuk/status/1643655792275406850?s=61&t=s0ae0IFncdLS1Dc7J0P_TQ
    That's not enough to field a full slate at a General Election. I know not every area has elections but even so, you would expect there to be a better showing than that if they really are at 6-8% as some polls suggest (and I don't believe they are)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314
    ping said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    As mentioned earlier I bought a new car. The damn thing is more intelligent than me (now waiting for the obvious replies). I'm gobsmacked by what it can do, most of which is a waste of time.

    Yes I've got a new one after 29 years. I does so much stuff. Feels like a plane cockpit. I don't expect to ever learn more than 10% of it.
    I was saying something similar the other day.
    Cars reached their apogee about 15 years ago. So much has been added since, so pointlessly.
    I was listening to a bunch of car journalists on a podcast a few weeks ago, and they came to the agreement that “Peak Car” was the 2011 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0. Since then, cars have got heavier, more automated, and less fun.

    Bonus negative points for the modern screens with no buttons, which save money but distract the hell out of the driver when he wants to adjust the heater.
    Peak budget car must surely be 2008-2020.

    The Fiat panda, 108/c1/aygo, Hyundai i10 etc.

    Cost almost nothing to buy, cheap to insure, little to go wrong. Fast enough for normal use within the speed limit. Built to historically high safety standards. After ~100 years of development the industry had refined the mechanics and ironed out the most common issues of rust etc so they last forever or until an accident.

    My dad bought a brand new Fiat panda for £4.9k in 2011. He got himself a bargain, there.

    I inherited it when he died and see no reason why it can’t keep going for another 5 years+.
    Yes, and the 2005-2015 cars will last forever, whereas the modern turbocharged Euro6 cars won’t. The engines are too finely toleranced, and the emissions software will eventually shut them down as they wear out at 150k or 200k miles.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,688

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.

    But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.

    I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
    Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.

    "It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
    I didn't claim it was all Starmer's fault. I don't know why the NHS procurement didn't go direct. All questions for the inquiries. If wrong doing has occurred no-one will be more delighted than me to see it punished. I am just against re-writing history with facts known only after the time.
    Usual guff , lessons will be learned and all the crooks keep their ill gotten spoils after they have wasted 100M and several years paying another bunch of parasites to sit on their arses and talk about it.
    Given the experience of an acquaintance who, working for the government, was forced out of her job for getting a Nightingale hospital completed on schedule*, I think the answer is fairly simple.

    She did what every contractor does - if material isn't available from the main supplier immediately, you send someone in a van to Screwfix to get the bolts or whatever you need. Then you add the receipt to the project. Apparently this was Bad Form - she should have waited a week for the big shipment from the Chosen Suppliers.
    That can make sense in rare circumstances: if the material actually has to meet a spec. If you just need 30mm plasterboard nails, then Screwfix is fine. If you need a nail, screw or nut/bolt that will actually meet a spec for a reason, then it almost never is.

    Sadly, specs often get applied to things that they shouldn't be applied to, massively increasing costs.
    Yup.

    She got hammered (ha) for OKing (among other things) substituting stainless steel 3 inch wood screws for mild steel for putting up light studding wall frames. This was Wasting Money.
    If she’s hammering screws, she’s doing it wrong.
    My dad always calls nails, Manchester screws for some reason. No idea why. He did briefly work for Westinghouse in the 60's.
    Isn't a hammer sometimes known as a Birmingham screwdriver?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,088
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    As mentioned earlier I bought a new car. The damn thing is more intelligent than me (now waiting for the obvious replies). I'm gobsmacked by what it can do, most of which is a waste of time.

    Yes I've got a new one after 29 years. I does so much stuff. Feels like a plane cockpit. I don't expect to ever learn more than 10% of it.
    I was saying something similar the other day.
    Cars reached their apogee about 15 years ago. So much has been added since, so pointlessly.
    I was listening to a bunch of car journalists on a podcast a few weeks ago, and they came to the agreement that “Peak Car” was the 2011 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0. Since then, cars have got heavier, more automated, and less fun.

    Bonus negative points for the modern screens with no buttons, which save money but distract the hell out of the driver when he wants to adjust the heater.
    Even worse, the touch-screens are on the wrong side for most British drivers.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,455
    edited April 2023

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.

    But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.

    I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
    Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.

    "It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
    I didn't claim it was all Starmer's fault. I don't know why the NHS procurement didn't go direct. All questions for the inquiries. If wrong doing has occurred no-one will be more delighted than me to see it punished. I am just against re-writing history with facts known only after the time.
    Usual guff , lessons will be learned and all the crooks keep their ill gotten spoils after they have wasted 100M and several years paying another bunch of parasites to sit on their arses and talk about it.
    Given the experience of an acquaintance who, working for the government, was forced out of her job for getting a Nightingale hospital completed on schedule*, I think the answer is fairly simple.

    She did what every contractor does - if material isn't available from the main supplier immediately, you send someone in a van to Screwfix to get the bolts or whatever you need. Then you add the receipt to the project. Apparently this was Bad Form - she should have waited a week for the big shipment from the Chosen Suppliers.
    That can make sense in rare circumstances: if the material actually has to meet a spec. If you just need 30mm plasterboard nails, then Screwfix is fine. If you need a nail, screw or nut/bolt that will actually meet a spec for a reason, then it almost never is.

    Sadly, specs often get applied to things that they shouldn't be applied to, massively increasing costs.
    Yup.

    She got hammered (ha) for OKing (among other things) substituting stainless steel 3 inch wood screws for mild steel for putting up light studding wall frames. This was Wasting Money.
    If she’s hammering screws, she’s doing it wrong.
    My dad always calls nails, Manchester screws for some reason. No idea why. He did briefly work for Westinghouse in the 60's.
    Did he come from Liverpool? Sounds like a local variant of the infamous name of Birmingham screwdriver applied to hammers all over the UK - with obvious insinuations about the skills and/or patience of the West Midlands wielder of the tool.

    PS: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=birmingham screwdriver

    "A hammer. Usually used on delicate devices when a real screwdriver would be better. Refers to the habit of a Birmingham inhabitant (i.e. simpleton to take a rather simplitic view of maintenance. Similar to percussive maintenance.

    If it don't work - hit it.
    If it still don't work, use a bigger hammer.
    Ay, Jimmeh, pass uz tha' Birmingham Screwdriver - oi can't geh this new graphics card in this bastard compu'er wivaht a slight modifahcation"
  • kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Zero chance of getting the votes to impeach the fncker, but he should be kicked off the court.

    Clarence Thomas Secretly Accepted Luxury Trips From GOP Donor
    https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-scotus-undisclosed-luxury-travel-gifts-crow
    … In late June 2019, right after the U.S. Supreme Court released its final opinion of the term, Justice Clarence Thomas boarded a large private jet headed to Indonesia. He and his wife were going on vacation: nine days of island-hopping in a volcanic archipelago on a superyacht staffed by a coterie of attendants and a private chef.

    If Thomas had chartered the plane and the 162-foot yacht himself, the total cost of the trip could have exceeded $500,000. Fortunately for him, that wasn’t necessary: He was on vacation with real estate magnate and Republican megadonor Harlan Crow, who owned the jet — and the yacht, too.

    For more than two decades, Thomas has accepted luxury trips virtually every year from the Dallas businessman without disclosing them, documents and interviews show. A public servant who has a salary of $285,000, he has vacationed on Crow’s superyacht around the globe. He flies on Crow’s Bombardier Global 5000 jet. He has gone with Crow to the Bohemian Grove, the exclusive California all-male retreat, and to Crow’s sprawling ranch in East Texas. And Thomas typically spends about a week every summer at Crow’s private resort in the Adirondacks.

    The extent and frequency of Crow’s apparent gifts to Thomas have no known precedent in the modern history of the U.S. Supreme Court.

    These trips appeared nowhere on Thomas’ financial disclosures. His failure to report the flights appears to violate a law passed after Watergate that requires justices, judges, members of Congress and federal officials to disclose most gifts, two ethics law experts said. He also should have disclosed his trips on the yacht, these experts said…

    But does it violate the most important law and judicial rule of all - his politics are correct?
    Hope you are being sarcastic with this comment. In reality, I suspect it's depressingly close to the truth.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    ...

    On topic, we owe the SNP a huge debt of gratitude for yesterday's events.

    If Police Scotland were to arrest to Nicola Sturgeon I'm not sure the internet could cope.

    (Note that's not a prediction, more of an observation.)

    Whilst it was a good day for popcorn sales, if our gallant law enforcement officers really want to dig people's gardens, perhaps they could start looking for the few billion by various Tory cronies for PPE which was never delivered.
    Yes, the police should definitely only investigate the people you oppose most politically.
    The police should investigate ALL of these outrages. The issue is that the outrages outed so far all come from the Tory VIP lane.

    Had Labour done this I would be howling just as hard.
    Government VIP lane. There is a difference.

    A lot was done too fast, with little scrutiny. We should be going after any one who failed to supply or supplied substandard product. But never forget the pressure of the time - the NHS was desperate and the government was being assailed on all sides. Our erstwhile friends and allies the French stole PPE on its was to us. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    I am sorry Tubbs, but "it was an emergency" is a weak defence for 24 carat gold corruption.

    The French "stealing" our PPE is a a bit rich, it may be immoral but it is how international trade works. A cargo of oil for example is often sold several times as it floats before it reaches the final destination. I am guessing as much with the PPE. If the French promise the supplier significantly more money to get a consignment quicker then us, we just get bumped down to the next shipment, or the one after that.

    It's like moving house so your kids quickly climb up the list to get to the Grammar School of your choice, ahead of those previously higher on the list than yourself, who couldn't afford so to do.
    Lets see what the enquiries produce. Or the police. Or both. If there was corruption (prima facie seems like it) then it must be followed up.

    But it was an emergency. Starmer produced his list of suppliers too, don't forget.

    I'm not defending illegal behaviour. But I think some have forgotten how fraught the crisis actually was.
    Your defence is the defence Rochdale claimed Government supporters would use, earlier today. You can claim it was all Starmer's fault until the cows come home. Starmer had no authority, he was LOTO. In practical terms that means he was/is a nobody as far as Government procedure is concerned. He could have made lists as long as his arm, it wasn't his call.

    "It was an emergency- give them a break". Sorry, but my point was in this "emergency" why couldn't NHS procurement officers short circuit the tendering process and go straight to China, just like the profiteering start-ups did?
    I didn't claim it was all Starmer's fault. I don't know why the NHS procurement didn't go direct. All questions for the inquiries. If wrong doing has occurred no-one will be more delighted than me to see it punished. I am just against re-writing history with facts known only after the time.
    Usual guff , lessons will be learned and all the crooks keep their ill gotten spoils after they have wasted 100M and several years paying another bunch of parasites to sit on their arses and talk about it.
    Given the experience of an acquaintance who, working for the government, was forced out of her job for getting a Nightingale hospital completed on schedule*, I think the answer is fairly simple.

    She did what every contractor does - if material isn't available from the main supplier immediately, you send someone in a van to Screwfix to get the bolts or whatever you need. Then you add the receipt to the project. Apparently this was Bad Form - she should have waited a week for the big shipment from the Chosen Suppliers.
    That can make sense in rare circumstances: if the material actually has to meet a spec. If you just need 30mm plasterboard nails, then Screwfix is fine. If you need a nail, screw or nut/bolt that will actually meet a spec for a reason, then it almost never is.

    Sadly, specs often get applied to things that they shouldn't be applied to, massively increasing costs.
    Yup.

    She got hammered (ha) for OKing (among other things) substituting stainless steel 3 inch wood screws for mild steel for putting up light studding wall frames. This was Wasting Money.
    If she’s hammering screws, she’s doing it wrong.
    My dad always calls nails, Manchester screws for some reason. No idea why. He did briefly work for Westinghouse in the 60's.
    I am trying to remember which American fighter jet prototype was found to have a 5 inch wood screw which had bizarrely been used to secure an electronic box, which was mashed up inside. Not suprisingly.
This discussion has been closed.