It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Voters losing confidence in Rishi Sunak’s ability to stop small boats
Britons have less confidence in Rishi Sunak stopping small boats than they did a month ago, despite a blizzard of government announcements about the issue.
In March the government unveiled a five-point plan to tackle illegal immigration across the Channel, as well as proposals to move migrants out of hotels and into military bases and barges. Suella Braverman, the home secretary, visited Rwanda to close loopholes in the deportation deal.
The flurry of activity has buoyed Conservative MPs, some of whom believe the focus on the issue will help Sunak to close the gap with Labour.
But new polling by YouGov for The Times suggests that the public’s confidence in Sunak’s ability to deliver on the issue has waned rather than strengthened in recent weeks.
On March 8, the day after Sunak announced a host of legislative measures to stop boat crossings, 26 per cent of the public thought it was likely he would be able to deliver. In contrast, 59 per cent thought it was unlikely.
In a new poll conducted last Wednesday and Thursday, only 21 per cent thought Sunak was likely to be able to stop the boats. Some 63 per cent thought he was unlikely to be able to do so. Among those who voted Conservative at the last election, 32 per cent thought the prime minister was likely to be able to achieve his goal and 60 per cent thought it was unlikely.
There is also scepticism that some of the measures announced by the government will ever happen. Thirty per cent thought that an end to the practice of accommodating asylum seekers in hotels probably would happen, while 52 per cent thought it probably would not. Only 24 per cent believed that moving asylum seekers into barges or disused cruise ships probably would happen, while 54 per cent thought it probably would not.
Sunak comes across as thinking that discussion of the issue, and passing laws about the issue, are all that are required. He appears not to understand, that the voters expect him to have actually stopped the crossings before the election.
It all depends how the question was asked. I would be inclined to treat this with some scepticism until the questions are revealed... cf Sir Humphrey Appleby.
- Was at a party last night and they had both Palestinian flags and Ukrainian flags up on the walls. Corbynism is dead.
- "Gentrification" is just a whiny way to say "much improved". We need a more specific word for when cool independent shops are priced out by Starbucks, however.
Not a single person has responded positively to my suggestion about dealing with gentrification - get out there, sell some drugs, rob some people.
Is it something I said?
Many years ago when I first moved here it was a very pleasing mix of drug users and IRA pubs. And just a week or two ago a 'Kimchi and Poetry Library' opened up.
(I rather like Kristof, though I only agree with him on politics part of the time. He's a "bleeding heart liberal". I honor him for his good intentions, but believe he needs to think harder about practical solutions.
His wife, Sheryl WuDunn, is, to say the least, impressive.)
Are Chelsea the first side in the Premier League to sack two different managers this season? I find it very hard to keep up!
I make it that there are only nine managerial survivors from the start of the season: Klopp, Guardiola, Arteta, Moyes, Silva, Cooper, Howe, Frank and ten Hag - and two of them are in charge of relegation threatened sides and might yet succumb. Is there a record for departures?
- Was at a party last night and they had both Palestinian flags and Ukrainian flags up on the walls. Corbynism is dead.
- "Gentrification" is just a whiny way to say "much improved". We need a more specific word for when cool independent shops are priced out by Starbucks, however.
There is a further level of gentrification when an area gets so wealthy the local landlords drive away all the chain coffee shops, and bring in bespoke Amish jewellers and independent sherry sellers and specialists in Greek cheeses and the like
It's happened in Marylebone High Street (the De Walden Estate) and I see it has also happened in Store Street Bloomsbury (the Russell Estate)
Perhaps it could be called Maryleboning
"Ah, I see your high street has been Maryleboned. Lucky you"
Surely, the critical point is where Guardian journalists can’t afford it.
“I hear the high street is Post Guardian”
“Yup”
Better or worse than when Sunday Times journos can't afford it?
It was when my friends and I began composing a simpering personal statement just to rent a flat that it finally clicked for me: Britain’s rental market is broken. “Hello! We are Laura, Matt and Katie, three professional sharers all working in the media,” we told the landlord, after a prompt from the estate agent that we needed to stand out from the competition with a Ucas-style covering letter...
I wonder if these clever journalists understand supply and demand. Have they worked out that like everyone else they don't have a divine right to live in circumstances they can't afford; they may have jobs in the media - great for them - but if their talents don't stretch to being paid enough to live in range X that is a matter for them and their employer.
In wonder when the MSM will run a campaign along the lines: "Why Oh Why do newspapers pay so little that their staff can't afford to rent a one room flat in an east London war zone? We fearlessly investigate"
There wasn't much coverage of the Rotherham scandal here in the US, so I hope you will excuse me for asking two possibly naive questions:
Were most of the victimized girls from classes below C2? (I hope I phrased that right; your alphabetical class descriptions aren't used here.)
Were most of the victimized girls from fatherless families? (I suspect that would be true of Epstein's victims, but have seen no evidence on the question.)
What you need to know is the SCALE
There were certainly TENS OF THOUSANDS OF VICTIMS. Tens of thousands of poor white girls (and boys) raped, abused, tortured and even sometimes killed by (mainly) British Pakistani Muslim gangs
Some estimates go over 100,000
At least one person has estimated there might be a MILLION victims, if you add it all together, over the years. Who is that person? The Labour MP for Rotherham, Sarah Champion, who was shunned by her own party for making this claim, even though she is the MP for one of the cities worst afflicted, and should know more than most
"Child sex abuse gangs could have assaulted ONE MILLION youngsters in the UK
Rotherham’s Labour MP Sarah Champion describes it as a “national disaster” and is demanding a taskforce to fight the “horror""
Imagine that happening in any other country on earth. A million girls raped and abused by racist grooming gangs, mainly Muslim
There would be civil strife
This, I believe, is why the UK Establishment desperately tries to keep it all quiet. They fear that if Britons ever actually addressed the scale of what happened, and is STILL HAPPENING, there would be blood in the streets
It’s been going on for years. Ann Cryer, not exactly on the right of any political grouping, raised this in her seat years ago and was shunned.
Voters losing confidence in Rishi Sunak’s ability to stop small boats
Britons have less confidence in Rishi Sunak stopping small boats than they did a month ago, despite a blizzard of government announcements about the issue.
In March the government unveiled a five-point plan to tackle illegal immigration across the Channel, as well as proposals to move migrants out of hotels and into military bases and barges. Suella Braverman, the home secretary, visited Rwanda to close loopholes in the deportation deal.
The flurry of activity has buoyed Conservative MPs, some of whom believe the focus on the issue will help Sunak to close the gap with Labour.
But new polling by YouGov for The Times suggests that the public’s confidence in Sunak’s ability to deliver on the issue has waned rather than strengthened in recent weeks.
On March 8, the day after Sunak announced a host of legislative measures to stop boat crossings, 26 per cent of the public thought it was likely he would be able to deliver. In contrast, 59 per cent thought it was unlikely.
In a new poll conducted last Wednesday and Thursday, only 21 per cent thought Sunak was likely to be able to stop the boats. Some 63 per cent thought he was unlikely to be able to do so. Among those who voted Conservative at the last election, 32 per cent thought the prime minister was likely to be able to achieve his goal and 60 per cent thought it was unlikely.
There is also scepticism that some of the measures announced by the government will ever happen. Thirty per cent thought that an end to the practice of accommodating asylum seekers in hotels probably would happen, while 52 per cent thought it probably would not. Only 24 per cent believed that moving asylum seekers into barges or disused cruise ships probably would happen, while 54 per cent thought it probably would not.
Sunak comes across, as thinking that talking about the issue, and passing laws about the issue, are all that are required. He appears not to understand, that the voters expect him to have actually stopped the crossings before the election.
110 arrivals last week via small boats. Been a bit rough most days.
So what the PM needs, is a rough sea generator to put off the gangs.
Completely O/T but started watching a murder mystery series called “The Magpie Murders” on iPlayer. Absolutely great. Fun, beautiful to watch and Lesley Manville being her usual excellent self along with other lesser lights.
It's very enjoyable. You might also enjoy the S.African show 'Recipes For Love And Murder' and the UK 'Queens of Mystery' if you like that style of show. Possibly also the NZ show 'The Brokenwood Mysteries' (takes 2-3 episodes to find itself).
Oh - and in a more lighthearted, but still enjoyable way, 'Mr. and Mrs. Murder' from Australia. Again - takes a couple of episodes to get into.
I love listicles so I just asked ChatGPT to give me the 100 most important people of the 20th century.
The response is quite eccentric. Includes Sting, Greta Thunberg, and Isaac Bashevis Singer.
Great is a bit of an odd one, as she was born in the 21st Century.
That’s what I told ChatGPT, to which it conceded it was an error.
But how precisely do you make such a dumb error?
My faith is flagging.
ChatGPT is a bullshitter. The Boris Johnson of the IT world that suckered the gullible.
A really silly remark. You just don't understand
I think he probably does. Most of the people I hear getting very excited about ChatGPT are generally those with no science or IT training. ChatGPT is an interesting concept, and will get better, but it is massively overhyped.
From that paper, the most authoritative yet on the abilities of GPT4:
"We demonstrate that, beyond its mastery of language, GPT-4 can solve novel and difficult tasks that span mathematics, coding, vision, medicine, law, psychology and more, without needing any special prompting. Moreover, in all of these tasks, GPT-4's performance is strikingly close to human-level performance, and often vastly surpasses prior models such as ChatGPT. Given the breadth and depth of GPT-4's capabilities, we believe that it could reasonably be viewed as an early (yet still incomplete) version of an artificial general intelligence (AGI) system."
An epochal moment in the history of humanity, if it is true. And even if it is not true, the fact that 15 of the best experts in the field - globally - can reach this conclusion is itself startling and remarkable. It means we are close
But no, @Nigel_Foremain an anonymous man from Fucknows and his idiot retired friend @foxy who lives in Leicester and knows about lawnmowers says "Most of the people I hear getting very excited about ChatGPT are generally those with no science or IT training"
Replace Chat GPT-4 with What.Three.Words and you spammed PB with this last year.
THE NECKLACE
THE PLAGUE
THE LAB LEAK
That's a seriously niche game of Cluedo you're playing there.
Voters losing confidence in Rishi Sunak’s ability to stop small boats
Britons have less confidence in Rishi Sunak stopping small boats than they did a month ago, despite a blizzard of government announcements about the issue.
In March the government unveiled a five-point plan to tackle illegal immigration across the Channel, as well as proposals to move migrants out of hotels and into military bases and barges. Suella Braverman, the home secretary, visited Rwanda to close loopholes in the deportation deal.
The flurry of activity has buoyed Conservative MPs, some of whom believe the focus on the issue will help Sunak to close the gap with Labour.
But new polling by YouGov for The Times suggests that the public’s confidence in Sunak’s ability to deliver on the issue has waned rather than strengthened in recent weeks.
On March 8, the day after Sunak announced a host of legislative measures to stop boat crossings, 26 per cent of the public thought it was likely he would be able to deliver. In contrast, 59 per cent thought it was unlikely.
In a new poll conducted last Wednesday and Thursday, only 21 per cent thought Sunak was likely to be able to stop the boats. Some 63 per cent thought he was unlikely to be able to do so. Among those who voted Conservative at the last election, 32 per cent thought the prime minister was likely to be able to achieve his goal and 60 per cent thought it was unlikely.
There is also scepticism that some of the measures announced by the government will ever happen. Thirty per cent thought that an end to the practice of accommodating asylum seekers in hotels probably would happen, while 52 per cent thought it probably would not. Only 24 per cent believed that moving asylum seekers into barges or disused cruise ships probably would happen, while 54 per cent thought it probably would not.
Sunak comes across, as thinking that talking about the issue, and passing laws about the issue, are all that are required. He appears not to understand, that the voters expect him to have actually stopped the crossings before the election.
110 arrivals last week via small boats. Been a bit rough most days.
So what the PM needs, is a rough sea generator to put off the gangs.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparents were arseholes
I’m actually with you on this. The sins of the fathers etc. Those born since it happened shouldn’t be held responsible.
However, the corollary is that Brits should not feel any pride in things our ancestors did that we weren’t involved in. Can’t have it both ways. Pride in the good bits but disowning the bad bits is inconsistent.
More weight should be given, particularly in the education system, to social history alongside the traditional structure of kings and battles. Slavery is a big part of the picture within that: most medieval people were exploited as slaves or something very close to it in this country; conditions for the poor remained pretty wretched even after feudal serfdom had become a thing of the distant part; and then, of course, there was exploitation of bonded labour (primarily Africans, but also of Europeans as transported prisoners or through the Barbary slave trade,) for several hundred years during the colonial period. Most people are largely clueless about most of this stuff and it would do no harm at all for them to learn a bit more.
The real difficulties arise when someone decides to raise the subject of reparations. Telling, say, a single Mum in Carlisle, who's trying to raise a couple of kiddies on a minimum wage job and desultory top-up benefits, that some of her taxes now have to go on paying compensation to people in Dominica - because their ancestors were slaves two centuries ago and that's why she is now "rich" - is unlikely to go down well.
Most people lived (by our standards) pretty grim lives in the past. Our standard of living is 40 times subsistence. For people alive in the UK in 1800, the standard of living was similar to modern Zimbabwe. So, yes, the world was a dog eat dog place.
And, the Greens seem to think those were halcyon days.
Tom, when you look at the media and cultural landscape, would you say we are generally overrating or underrating the existential threat from AI? Or rating it about right? "
"Lots of people will have heard of the idea that there is some sort of existential threat from AI, but it tends to get sidelined. People think ‘This sounds a bit science fiction, like Terminator, so we're not going to pay attention to it’. I get that. Others think it’s a deflection tactic from the tech companies who don't want to talk about how AI is entrenching racist or sexist biases in society or how they’re enriching themselves at the expense of everyone else. And it is just a big and kind of crazy-sounding topic that’s very hard to convey in an 800-word newspaper column.
So it does get attention, but much of that attention is of the “lol tech bros” type. I think that is unfortunate. The questions around algorithmic bias are certainly not trivial (although I do think we should always ask, ‘What are you comparing it to?’ - since, generally speaking, I think you can make algorithms less racist than humans, or you can certainly adjust them in a way that you can't easily adjust humans). These are real problems. But the existence of these real problems doesn't mean that talking about the risk of catastrophe from AI is inherently insane or a distraction."
"Fox News’ Peter Doocy uses all his time at the White House press briefing to ask about an assessment that “literally everyone on Earth will die” because of artificial intelligence:
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
Little political quiz. Which famously left wing politician made this speech in the HoC about Mau Mau suspects killed by warders in the 1950's?
"Finally it is argued that this is Africa, that things are different there. Of course they are. The question is whether the difference between things there and here is such that the taking of responsibility there and here should be upon different principles. We claim that it is our object—and this is something which unites both sides of the House—to leave representative institutions behind us wherever we give up our rule. I cannot imagine that it is a way to plant representative institutions to be seen to shirk the acceptance and the assignment of responsibility, which is the very essence of responsible Government.
Nor can we ourselves pick and choose where and in what parts of the world we shall use this or that kind of standard. We cannot say, "We will have African standards in Africa, Asian standards in Asia and perhaps British standards here at home." We have not that choice to make. We must be consistent with ourselves everywhere. All Government, all influence of man upon man, rests upon opinion. What we can do in Africa, where we still govern and where we no longer govern, depends upon the opinion which is entertained of the way in which this country acts and the way in which Englishmen act. We cannot, we dare not, in Africa of all places, fall below our own highest standards in the acceptance of responsibility."
Ok so for music at leader's speeches we've had Go West for NCP and Eye of the Tiger for the Finns.
94% counted NCP 48 Finns 46 SDP 43.
Not sure if there is a path to a majority for NCP+Finns govt, Centre might be most likely joiner of this, otherwise it could maybe be NCP SDP SPP Greens.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
The compensation was paid in 2013 by a Conservative led government.
It didn't make the claim that all is fair in war, or indeed claim that its victims were Mau Mau.
Since it was proven that they were tortured, and innocent, it was correct to compensate them.
It does not mean the government (and tens of thousands of Kenyans) were wrong to fight the Mau Mau.
"Anne Longfield, the former children’s commissioner for England, said the large distances involved were a symptom of a broken system. “I have heard so many horrific stories of teenagers who are moved far from home to places where they know nobody,” she said. “They then become easy pickings for those who want to exploit and abuse children.
“The independent review of children’s social care published a year ago provided a roadmap to fixing this crisis. However, the government’s half-hearted response and its failure to provide the levels of investment required means hundreds of vulnerable children will continue to be put at risk in places they can’t even place on a map.”"
Dare we think that one way to stop the abuse of children in care might be to not place them hundreds of miles away from any social network that they have?
A symptom of the system - local authorities being bled dry, and weekly costs around 6000 a week on average for children’s homes placement.
"Anne Longfield, the former children’s commissioner for England, said the large distances involved were a symptom of a broken system. “I have heard so many horrific stories of teenagers who are moved far from home to places where they know nobody,” she said. “They then become easy pickings for those who want to exploit and abuse children.
“The independent review of children’s social care published a year ago provided a roadmap to fixing this crisis. However, the government’s half-hearted response and its failure to provide the levels of investment required means hundreds of vulnerable children will continue to be put at risk in places they can’t even place on a map.”"
Dare we think that one way to stop the abuse of children in care might be to not place them hundreds of miles away from any social network that they have?
A symptom of the system - local authorities being bled dry, and weekly costs around 6000 a week on average for children’s homes placement.
Yes, the costs of social and family breakdown are huge.
“never hate your enemies, it affects your judgment.”
Nicola’s obituary?
Nicola's, or those who hated her?
Whatever she got wrong, she got the SNP closer to power and to their underlying ambition than her predecessors... and by the look of it, her successor.
how did you imagine that one then. Salmond almost won the referendum , since she took over she achieved nothing , backwards on independence and wrecked the party.
She took the SNP from 6 MPs on Salmond's watch to 48* MPs when she left.
*Including the rats who subsequently defected to Alba and those who had the whip removed for being bad uns.
OK, I get you're probably just winding Malc up, but I'll make some Sturgeon-sceptic noises anyway.
Lest we forget, Salmond won an outright majority in the Scottish Parliament in 2011, in a system designed to make this exceedingly difficult. Sturgeon actually went slightly backwards in 2016, but that's by-the-by. GE2015 came along in the immediate aftermath of the thwarting of the Yes side in the referendum, with a highly motivated pro-independence vote still smarting from defeat (and united against a splintered collection of Unionist parties,) after five years of "Government we didn't vote for" led by the Tories in London, and with Scottish Labour on the floor in bits. Practically anyone could've led the SNP to a landslide in that vote. Sturgeon was merely the beneficiary of those conditions.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Indeed, @foxy is an exact example of this. It is a kind of mental deformity
We all do it.
I’ve just finished my Dissertation on the Peninsular War. Every party to that war was ruthless. I think that the British and Spanish were justified in their ruthlessness. If I were French, I’d think differently.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
Little political quiz. Which famously left wing politician made this speech in the HoC about Mau Mau suspects killed by warders in the 1950's?
"Finally it is argued that this is Africa, that things are different there. Of course they are. The question is whether the difference between things there and here is such that the taking of responsibility there and here should be upon different principles. We claim that it is our object—and this is something which unites both sides of the House—to leave representative institutions behind us wherever we give up our rule. I cannot imagine that it is a way to plant representative institutions to be seen to shirk the acceptance and the assignment of responsibility, which is the very essence of responsible Government.
Nor can we ourselves pick and choose where and in what parts of the world we shall use this or that kind of standard. We cannot say, "We will have African standards in Africa, Asian standards in Asia and perhaps British standards here at home." We have not that choice to make. We must be consistent with ourselves everywhere. All Government, all influence of man upon man, rests upon opinion. What we can do in Africa, where we still govern and where we no longer govern, depends upon the opinion which is entertained of the way in which this country acts and the way in which Englishmen act. We cannot, we dare not, in Africa of all places, fall below our own highest standards in the acceptance of responsibility."
I'd never heard of this speech before. But my instant reaction was Enoch Powell. Interesting.
Voters losing confidence in Rishi Sunak’s ability to stop small boats
Britons have less confidence in Rishi Sunak stopping small boats than they did a month ago, despite a blizzard of government announcements about the issue.
In March the government unveiled a five-point plan to tackle illegal immigration across the Channel, as well as proposals to move migrants out of hotels and into military bases and barges. Suella Braverman, the home secretary, visited Rwanda to close loopholes in the deportation deal.
The flurry of activity has buoyed Conservative MPs, some of whom believe the focus on the issue will help Sunak to close the gap with Labour.
But new polling by YouGov for The Times suggests that the public’s confidence in Sunak’s ability to deliver on the issue has waned rather than strengthened in recent weeks.
On March 8, the day after Sunak announced a host of legislative measures to stop boat crossings, 26 per cent of the public thought it was likely he would be able to deliver. In contrast, 59 per cent thought it was unlikely.
In a new poll conducted last Wednesday and Thursday, only 21 per cent thought Sunak was likely to be able to stop the boats. Some 63 per cent thought he was unlikely to be able to do so. Among those who voted Conservative at the last election, 32 per cent thought the prime minister was likely to be able to achieve his goal and 60 per cent thought it was unlikely.
There is also scepticism that some of the measures announced by the government will ever happen. Thirty per cent thought that an end to the practice of accommodating asylum seekers in hotels probably would happen, while 52 per cent thought it probably would not. Only 24 per cent believed that moving asylum seekers into barges or disused cruise ships probably would happen, while 54 per cent thought it probably would not.
I suspect the public know perfectly well that there is no way for Sunak to stop the boats by any means which is: lawful in international law, in the gift of the UK government without external help, even minimally humane, immune from the courts, and electorally advantageous. I think one out of five would be a struggle.
It can only be managed until some novus actus interveniens trots along and we focus on some other element of the picture which means our population rises by 500,000 a year while employers can't find the people they need.
Dr. Foxy said: "Indeed, we might even want to look upstream and consider why so many families break down to the point that their children wind up in residential care. That though might be rather uncomfortable for us as a society."
Not just your society. One of the reasons I like the Tony Hillerman Navajo stories is that he confronts such problems, honestly. For example, in "Dance Hall of the Dead, the detective Joe Leaphorn, is thinking about Susanne, who is living in a hippy commune, after her father rejected her, and wonders why whites don't take better care of their children. But then he remembers that he is searching for a Navajo boy, whose mother left years ago, and whose father is an alcoholic.
(I enjoy the Hillerman stories as much, or more, for his descriptions of Navajo, Hopi, and Zuni societies, as for the actual crime solving.
I perhaps should warn any lawyers that Leaphorn, and, even more, a younger detective, Jim Chee, often act to bring harmony and justice -- sometimes at the expense of the law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Hillerman )
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparents were arseholes
I’m actually with you on this. The sins of the fathers etc. Those born since it happened shouldn’t be held responsible.
However, the corollary is that Brits should not feel any pride in things our ancestors did that we weren’t involved in. Can’t have it both ways. Pride in the good bits but disowning the bad bits is inconsistent.
More weight should be given, particularly in the education system, to social history alongside the traditional structure of kings and battles. Slavery is a big part of the picture within that: most medieval people were exploited as slaves or something very close to it in this country; conditions for the poor remained pretty wretched even after feudal serfdom had become a thing of the distant part; and then, of course, there was exploitation of bonded labour (primarily Africans, but also of Europeans as transported prisoners or through the Barbary slave trade,) for several hundred years during the colonial period. Most people are largely clueless about most of this stuff and it would do no harm at all for them to learn a bit more.
The real difficulties arise when someone decides to raise the subject of reparations. Telling, say, a single Mum in Carlisle, who's trying to raise a couple of kiddies on a minimum wage job and desultory top-up benefits, that some of her taxes now have to go on paying compensation to people in Dominica - because their ancestors were slaves two centuries ago and that's why she is now "rich" - is unlikely to go down well.
Most people lived (by our standards) pretty grim lives in the past. Our standard of living is 40 times subsistence. For people alive in the UK in 1800, the standard of living was similar to modern Zimbabwe. So, yes, the world was a dog eat dog place.
And, the Greens seem to think those were halcyon days.
I’m with Leon on AI. Useful, but dangerous. Remember how quickly this technology develops and how early we are in the story.
My eldest son could live until 2100 with a fair wind. What will our relationship with AI look like then? It ain’t going to be limited to forging GCSE essays.
Ok so for music at leader's speeches we've had Go West for NCP and Eye of the Tiger for the Finns.
94% counted NCP 48 Finns 46 SDP 43.
Not sure if there is a path to a majority for NCP+Finns govt, Centre might be most likely joiner of this, otherwise it could maybe be NCP SDP SPP Greens.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
Little political quiz. Which famously left wing politician made this speech in the HoC about Mau Mau suspects killed by warders in the 1950's?
"Finally it is argued that this is Africa, that things are different there. Of course they are. The question is whether the difference between things there and here is such that the taking of responsibility there and here should be upon different principles. We claim that it is our object—and this is something which unites both sides of the House—to leave representative institutions behind us wherever we give up our rule. I cannot imagine that it is a way to plant representative institutions to be seen to shirk the acceptance and the assignment of responsibility, which is the very essence of responsible Government.
Nor can we ourselves pick and choose where and in what parts of the world we shall use this or that kind of standard. We cannot say, "We will have African standards in Africa, Asian standards in Asia and perhaps British standards here at home." We have not that choice to make. We must be consistent with ourselves everywhere. All Government, all influence of man upon man, rests upon opinion. What we can do in Africa, where we still govern and where we no longer govern, depends upon the opinion which is entertained of the way in which this country acts and the way in which Englishmen act. We cannot, we dare not, in Africa of all places, fall below our own highest standards in the acceptance of responsibility."
I'd never heard of this speech before. But my instant reaction was Enoch Powell. Interesting.
Correct.
The brutality of British counter-insurgency in Kenya shocked even him, and was well enough known at the time to be debated in Parliament.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparen
"Anne Longfield, the former children’s commissioner for England, said the large distances involved were a symptom of a broken system. “I have heard so many horrific stories of teenagers who are moved far from home to places where they know nobody,” she said. “They then become easy pickings for those who want to exploit and abuse children.
“The independent review of children’s social care published a year ago provided a roadmap to fixing this crisis. However, the government’s half-hearted response and its failure to provide the levels of investment required means hundreds of vulnerable children will continue to be put at risk in places they can’t even place on a map.”"
Dare we think that one way to stop the abuse of children in care might be to not place them hundreds of miles away from any social network that they have?
Is that not quite deliberate in many cases, to remove vulnerable kids from their local gangs or abusive relatives?
No, mostly that there are no local places. So they get shipped off to seaside resorts and northern towns.
Many of those abused in rotherham had not been removed from support networks. Indeed many in those support networks reported over and over and over again the abuse. Even handed in evidence which some how kept going missing....
Now not by any means saying removal from support networks is a good thing but its not like you seem to be implying that if they only had their support networks and hadn't been removed then all would have been fine
The social services failed these children, The council failed these children The police failed these children The media failed these children and national politicians failed these children
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
Little political quiz. Which famously left wing politician made this speech in the HoC about Mau Mau suspects killed by warders in the 1950's?
"Finally it is argued that this is Africa, that things are different there. Of course they are. The question is whether the difference between things there and here is such that the taking of responsibility there and here should be upon different principles. We claim that it is our object—and this is something which unites both sides of the House—to leave representative institutions behind us wherever we give up our rule. I cannot imagine that it is a way to plant representative institutions to be seen to shirk the acceptance and the assignment of responsibility, which is the very essence of responsible Government.
Nor can we ourselves pick and choose where and in what parts of the world we shall use this or that kind of standard. We cannot say, "We will have African standards in Africa, Asian standards in Asia and perhaps British standards here at home." We have not that choice to make. We must be consistent with ourselves everywhere. All Government, all influence of man upon man, rests upon opinion. What we can do in Africa, where we still govern and where we no longer govern, depends upon the opinion which is entertained of the way in which this country acts and the way in which Englishmen act. We cannot, we dare not, in Africa of all places, fall below our own highest standards in the acceptance of responsibility."
I confess I Googled to see if my guess was right, and I was!
- Was at a party last night and they had both Palestinian flags and Ukrainian flags up on the walls. Corbynism is dead.
- "Gentrification" is just a whiny way to say "much improved". We need a more specific word for when cool independent shops are priced out by Starbucks, however.
Not a single person has responded positively to my suggestion about dealing with gentrification - get out there, sell some drugs, rob some people.
Is it something I said?
Many years ago when I first moved here it was a very pleasing mix of drug users and IRA pubs. And just a week or two ago a 'Kimchi and Poetry Library' opened up.
I must have missed the big debate on Andorra but the liberal conservative Democrats for Andorra seem to be leading - with about half the vote counted they have 32% of the vote.
In Bulgaria, not much has changed. Revival has gained 10 seats but that’s mainly because another nationalist group missed the 4% threshold.
In Finland, the Finns Party are the big winners but the National Coalition is just ahead with 48 seats to 46 for the Finns and 43 for the Social Democrats.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparents were arseholes
I’m actually with you on this. The sins of the fathers etc. Those born since it happened shouldn’t be held responsible.
However, the corollary is that Brits should not feel any pride in things our ancestors did that we weren’t involved in. Can’t have it both ways. Pride in the good bits but disowning the bad bits is inconsistent.
More weight should be given, particularly in the education system, to social history alongside the traditional structure of kings and battles. Slavery is a big part of the picture within that: most medieval people were exploited as slaves or something very close to it in this country; conditions for the poor remained pretty wretched even after feudal serfdom had become a thing of the distant part; and then, of course, there was exploitation of bonded labour (primarily Africans, but also of Europeans as transported prisoners or through the Barbary slave trade,) for several hundred years during the colonial period. Most people are largely clueless about most of this stuff and it would do no harm at all for them to learn a bit more.
The real difficulties arise when someone decides to raise the subject of reparations. Telling, say, a single Mum in Carlisle, who's trying to raise a couple of kiddies on a minimum wage job and desultory top-up benefits, that some of her taxes now have to go on paying compensation to people in Dominica - because their ancestors were slaves two centuries ago and that's why she is now "rich" - is unlikely to go down well.
Most people lived (by our standards) pretty grim lives in the past. Our standard of living is 40 times subsistence. For people alive in the UK in 1800, the standard of living was similar to modern Zimbabwe. So, yes, the world was a dog eat dog place.
And, the Greens seem to think those were halcyon days.
I must have missed the big debate on Andorra but the liberal conservative Democrats for Andorra seem to be leading - with about half the vote counted they have 32% of the vote.
In Bulgaria, not much has changed. Revival has gained 10 seats but that’s mainly because another nationalist group missed the 4% threshold.
In Finland, the Finns Party are the big winners but the National Coalition is just ahead with 48 seats to 46 for the Finns and 43 for the Social Democrats.
Ahhh it seems as though Andorra has been cruelly overlooked this evening.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Indeed, @foxy is an exact example of this. It is a kind of mental deformity
We all do it.
I’ve just finished my Dissertation on the Peninsular War. Every party to that war was ruthless. I think that the British and Spanish were justified in their ruthlessness. If I were French, I’d think differently.
Yes, of course: but there is a special place for British lefties, as Orwell observed, who do this for THE OTHER SIDE
They will make any contortion possible to think the worst of Britain, the West, white people, America, while doing the same contortions to forgive or praise anything by black or brown people, the enemies of the West, Islam, the USSR, sometimes China, even Putin, etc
So these people manage to combine normal if regrettable human self-delusion with quasi-treachery, which is pretty impressive
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Indeed, @foxy is an exact example of this. It is a kind of mental deformity
We all do it.
I’ve just finished my Dissertation on the Peninsular War. Every party to that war was ruthless. I think that the British and Spanish were justified in their ruthlessness. If I were French, I’d think differently.
Also there are gradations.
With the notable exceptions of the aftermath of Badajoz - where British troops went on a totally immoral rampage - I'm not sure they descended to quite the same level of savagery as the French.
"Anne Longfield, the former children’s commissioner for England, said the large distances involved were a symptom of a broken system. “I have heard so many horrific stories of teenagers who are moved far from home to places where they know nobody,” she said. “They then become easy pickings for those who want to exploit and abuse children.
“The independent review of children’s social care published a year ago provided a roadmap to fixing this crisis. However, the government’s half-hearted response and its failure to provide the levels of investment required means hundreds of vulnerable children will continue to be put at risk in places they can’t even place on a map.”"
Dare we think that one way to stop the abuse of children in care might be to not place them hundreds of miles away from any social network that they have?
A symptom of the system - local authorities being bled dry, and weekly costs around 6000 a week on average for children’s homes placement.
Yes, the costs of social and family breakdown are huge.
More than 60p of every £1 spent by County and Unitary councils goes on care for adults and children.
One of the biggest failures of the last 13 years has been the inability to come up with a viable solution to the issue of the funding of adult social care.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
Little political quiz. Which famously left wing politician made this speech in the HoC about Mau Mau suspects killed by warders in the 1950's?
"Finally it is argued that this is Africa, that things are different there. Of course they are. The question is whether the difference between things there and here is such that the taking of responsibility there and here should be upon different principles. We claim that it is our object—and this is something which unites both sides of the House—to leave representative institutions behind us wherever we give up our rule. I cannot imagine that it is a way to plant representative institutions to be seen to shirk the acceptance and the assignment of responsibility, which is the very essence of responsible Government.
Nor can we ourselves pick and choose where and in what parts of the world we shall use this or that kind of standard. We cannot say, "We will have African standards in Africa, Asian standards in Asia and perhaps British standards here at home." We have not that choice to make. We must be consistent with ourselves everywhere. All Government, all influence of man upon man, rests upon opinion. What we can do in Africa, where we still govern and where we no longer govern, depends upon the opinion which is entertained of the way in which this country acts and the way in which Englishmen act. We cannot, we dare not, in Africa of all places, fall below our own highest standards in the acceptance of responsibility."
I'd never heard of this speech before. But my instant reaction was Enoch Powell. Interesting.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Indeed, @foxy is an exact example of this. It is a kind of mental deformity
We all do it.
I’ve just finished my Dissertation on the Peninsular War. Every party to that war was ruthless. I think that the British and Spanish were justified in their ruthlessness. If I were French, I’d think differently.
Also there are gradations.
With the notable exceptions of the aftermath of Badajoz - where British troops went on a totally immoral rampage - I'm not sure they descended to quite the same level of savagery as the French.
Ahem. Only foreigners go on "immoral rampages". Britons very very occasionally indulge in "boyish horseplay"
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
Little political quiz. Which famously left wing politician made this speech in the HoC about Mau Mau suspects killed by warders in the 1950's?
"Finally it is argued that this is Africa, that things are different there. Of course they are. The question is whether the difference between things there and here is such that the taking of responsibility there and here should be upon different principles. We claim that it is our object—and this is something which unites both sides of the House—to leave representative institutions behind us wherever we give up our rule. I cannot imagine that it is a way to plant representative institutions to be seen to shirk the acceptance and the assignment of responsibility, which is the very essence of responsible Government.
Nor can we ourselves pick and choose where and in what parts of the world we shall use this or that kind of standard. We cannot say, "We will have African standards in Africa, Asian standards in Asia and perhaps British standards here at home." We have not that choice to make. We must be consistent with ourselves everywhere. All Government, all influence of man upon man, rests upon opinion. What we can do in Africa, where we still govern and where we no longer govern, depends upon the opinion which is entertained of the way in which this country acts and the way in which Englishmen act. We cannot, we dare not, in Africa of all places, fall below our own highest standards in the acceptance of responsibility."
I'd never heard of this speech before. But my instant reaction was Enoch Powell. Interesting.
Correct.
The brutality of British counter-insurgency in Kenya shocked even him, and was well enough known at the time to be debated in Parliament.
It was not our finest hour, even though the Mau Mau were beyond horrible themselves.
Malaya was a much better example of a counter-insurgency campaign.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparents were arseholes
I’m actually with you on this. The sins of the fathers etc. Those born since it happened shouldn’t be held responsible.
However, the corollary is that Brits should not feel any pride in things our ancestors did that we weren’t involved in. Can’t have it both ways. Pride in the good bits but disowning the bad bits is inconsistent.
I can kind of get on board with this idea, to a degree, but in terms of fashionable opinions the sin side of the ledger seems to vastly outweigh the sin side.
It often seems pretty self centered to me, with people wallowing in their own historical sin or privilege like some kind of flagellant. The performance, the recitation of an agreed line more important than anything else, because it is about the individual putting themselves first.
I don't doubt many are well intentioned, but at present it does feel like there is an over focus about talking about how the individual should feel, and how they need to do more than act in a good manner, they need to talk about it ad nauseum.
Completely O/T but started watching a murder mystery series called “The Magpie Murders” on iPlayer. Absolutely great. Fun, beautiful to watch and Lesley Manville being her usual excellent self along with other lesser lights.
The Magpie Murders is Saturday night on BBC1 for ordinary viewers.
It's simply 'Magpie Murders'; there's no 'the', just saying.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparen
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparents were arseholes
I’m actually with you on this. The sins of the fathers etc. Those born since it happened shouldn’t be held responsible.
However, the corollary is that Brits should not feel any pride in things our ancestors did that we weren’t involved in. Can’t have it both ways. Pride in the good bits but disowning the bad bits is inconsistent.
I can kind of get on board with this idea, to a degree, but in terms of fashionable opinions the sin side of the ledger seems to vastly outweigh the sin side.
It often seems pretty self centered to me, with people wallowing in their own historical sin or privilege like some kind of flagellant. The performance, the recitation of an agreed line more important than anything else, because it is about the individual putting themselves first.
I don't doubt many are well intentioned, but at present it does feel like there is an over focus about talking about how the individual should feel, and how they need to do more than act in a good manner, they need to talk about it ad nauseum.
TimS is correct in what he says about pride in past accomplishments. Where he is wrong is assuming someone saying something like the empire did some good stuff as well as bad is pride in accomplishments rather than just being honest.
If I say the roman empire did a lot of good but also had a lot of bad points I dont think that anyone would claim I was taking pride in the roman empire.
I say the same about the british empire and suddenly people assume I am taking pride while excusing the atrocities
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
It's the distinction between ius ad bellum, and ius in bello.
I think it was absolutely right to fight the Mau Mau. It's not a case of saying "times were different then." I think it was absolutely right to fight in Korea, and absolutely right to fight the Communists in Malaya.
But in each case, the side that was in the right committed atrocities , during the course of that fight.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
Little political quiz. Which famously left wing politician made this speech in the HoC about Mau Mau suspects killed by warders in the 1950's?
"Finally it is argued that this is Africa, that things are different there. Of course they are. The question is whether the difference between things there and here is such that the taking of responsibility there and here should be upon different principles. We claim that it is our object—and this is something which unites both sides of the House—to leave representative institutions behind us wherever we give up our rule. I cannot imagine that it is a way to plant representative institutions to be seen to shirk the acceptance and the assignment of responsibility, which is the very essence of responsible Government.
Nor can we ourselves pick and choose where and in what parts of the world we shall use this or that kind of standard. We cannot say, "We will have African standards in Africa, Asian standards in Asia and perhaps British standards here at home." We have not that choice to make. We must be consistent with ourselves everywhere. All Government, all influence of man upon man, rests upon opinion. What we can do in Africa, where we still govern and where we no longer govern, depends upon the opinion which is entertained of the way in which this country acts and the way in which Englishmen act. We cannot, we dare not, in Africa of all places, fall below our own highest standards in the acceptance of responsibility."
I'd never heard of this speech before. But my instant reaction was Enoch Powell. Interesting.
I think the most attractive (only?) thing about Powell was his pricipled contrarianism. Unfortunately it seemed to curdle with old age.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
It's the distinction between ius ad bellum, and ius in bello.
I think it was absolutely right to fight the Mau Mau. It's not a case of saying "times were different then." I think it was absolutely right to fight in Korea, and absolutely right to fight the Communists in Malaya.
But in each case, the side that was in the right committed atrocities , during the course of that fight.
Point of order...I don't believe we fought in korea
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparents were arseholes
I’m actually with you on this. The sins of the fathers etc. Those born since it happened shouldn’t be held responsible.
However, the corollary is that Brits should not feel any pride in things our ancestors did that we weren’t involved in. Can’t have it both ways. Pride in the good bits but disowning the bad bits is inconsistent.
I can kind of get on board with this idea, to a degree, but in terms of fashionable opinions the sin side of the ledger seems to vastly outweigh the sin side.
It often seems pretty self centered to me, with people wallowing in their own historical sin or privilege like some kind of flagellant. The performance, the recitation of an agreed line more important than anything else, because it is about the individual putting themselves first.
I don't doubt many are well intentioned, but at present it does feel like there is an over focus about talking about how the individual should feel, and how they need to do more than act in a good manner, they need to talk about it ad nauseum.
"Wokeness" and "Social Justice" is not about reform. It's about performance.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Indeed, @foxy is an exact example of this. It is a kind of mental deformity
We all do it.
I’ve just finished my Dissertation on the Peninsular War. Every party to that war was ruthless. I think that the British and Spanish were justified in their ruthlessness. If I were French, I’d think differently.
Also there are gradations.
With the notable exceptions of the aftermath of Badajoz - where British troops went on a totally immoral rampage - I'm not sure they descended to quite the same level of savagery as the French.
No. The Spanish, however, did. But, the Spanish were defending their homeland.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
It's the distinction between ius ad bellum, and ius in bello.
I think it was absolutely right to fight the Mau Mau. It's not a case of saying "times were different then." I think it was absolutely right to fight in Korea, and absolutely right to fight the Communists in Malaya.
But in each case, the side that was in the right committed atrocities , during the course of that fight.
Point of order...I don't believe we fought in korea
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
It's the distinction between ius ad bellum, and ius in bello.
I think it was absolutely right to fight the Mau Mau. It's not a case of saying "times were different then." I think it was absolutely right to fight in Korea, and absolutely right to fight the Communists in Malaya.
But in each case, the side that was in the right committed atrocities , during the course of that fight.
Point of order...I don't believe we fought in korea
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
Little political quiz. Which famously left wing politician made this speech in the HoC about Mau Mau suspects killed by warders in the 1950's?
"Finally it is argued that this is Africa, that things are different there. Of course they are. The question is whether the difference between things there and here is such that the taking of responsibility there and here should be upon different principles. We claim that it is our object—and this is something which unites both sides of the House—to leave representative institutions behind us wherever we give up our rule. I cannot imagine that it is a way to plant representative institutions to be seen to shirk the acceptance and the assignment of responsibility, which is the very essence of responsible Government.
Nor can we ourselves pick and choose where and in what parts of the world we shall use this or that kind of standard. We cannot say, "We will have African standards in Africa, Asian standards in Asia and perhaps British standards here at home." We have not that choice to make. We must be consistent with ourselves everywhere. All Government, all influence of man upon man, rests upon opinion. What we can do in Africa, where we still govern and where we no longer govern, depends upon the opinion which is entertained of the way in which this country acts and the way in which Englishmen act. We cannot, we dare not, in Africa of all places, fall below our own highest standards in the acceptance of responsibility."
I'd never heard of this speech before. But my instant reaction was Enoch Powell. Interesting.
I think the most attractive (only?) thing about Powell was his pricipled contrarianism. Unfortunately it seemed to curdle with old age.
Also, he was once photographed jumping on a pogo stick in Belgravia
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparen
"Anne Longfield, the former children’s commissioner for England, said the large distances involved were a symptom of a broken system. “I have heard so many horrific stories of teenagers who are moved far from home to places where they know nobody,” she said. “They then become easy pickings for those who want to exploit and abuse children.
“The independent review of children’s social care published a year ago provided a roadmap to fixing this crisis. However, the government’s half-hearted response and its failure to provide the levels of investment required means hundreds of vulnerable children will continue to be put at risk in places they can’t even place on a map.”"
Dare we think that one way to stop the abuse of children in care might be to not place them hundreds of miles away from any social network that they have?
Is that not quite deliberate in many cases, to remove vulnerable kids from their local gangs or abusive relatives?
No, mostly that there are no local places. So they get shipped off to seaside resorts and northern towns.
Many of those abused in rotherham had not been removed from support networks. Indeed many in those support networks reported over and over and over again the abuse. Even handed in evidence which some how kept going missing....
Now not by any means saying removal from support networks is a good thing but its not like you seem to be implying that if they only had their support networks and hadn't been removed then all would have been fine
The social services failed these children, The council failed these children The police failed these children The media failed these children and national politicians failed these children
It would be much harder for all these powers to fail children if parents didn't fail them too.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparen
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
It's the distinction between ius ad bellum, and ius in bello.
I think it was absolutely right to fight the Mau Mau. It's not a case of saying "times were different then." I think it was absolutely right to fight in Korea, and absolutely right to fight the Communists in Malaya.
But in each case, the side that was in the right committed atrocities , during the course of that fight.
Point of order...I don't believe we fought in korea
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
The compensation was paid in 2013 by a Conservative led government.
It didn't make the claim that all is fair in war, or indeed claim that its victims were Mau Mau.
Since it was proven that they were tortured, and innocent, it was correct to compensate them.
It does not mean the government (and tens of thousands of Kenyans) were wrong to fight the Mau Mau.
The Mau Mau had record for cutting fetuses out of pregnant women. No excuse for British torture without trial, but the Mau Mau were definitely the worse of two evils.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparen
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
It's the distinction between ius ad bellum, and ius in bello.
I think it was absolutely right to fight the Mau Mau. It's not a case of saying "times were different then." I think it was absolutely right to fight in Korea, and absolutely right to fight the Communists in Malaya.
But in each case, the side that was in the right committed atrocities , during the course of that fight.
Point of order...I don't believe we fought in korea
hmm why was my understanding we refused to join the usa in the korean war....maybe I got mixed up with vietnam
We were there in a modest way in Korea, we dodged Vietnam entirely
Reading some Vietnam War history recently, I did not realise how influential the UK was in this instance. The refusal of the UK to join with the USA came close to scuppering American involvement entirely. It was argued in Washington that if America's closest ally saw this as a mistake, it was probably a mistake. Shame our view did not quite prevail
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparen
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparen
"Anne Longfield, the former children’s commissioner for England, said the large distances involved were a symptom of a broken system. “I have heard so many horrific stories of teenagers who are moved far from home to places where they know nobody,” she said. “They then become easy pickings for those who want to exploit and abuse children.
“The independent review of children’s social care published a year ago provided a roadmap to fixing this crisis. However, the government’s half-hearted response and its failure to provide the levels of investment required means hundreds of vulnerable children will continue to be put at risk in places they can’t even place on a map.”"
Dare we think that one way to stop the abuse of children in care might be to not place them hundreds of miles away from any social network that they have?
Is that not quite deliberate in many cases, to remove vulnerable kids from their local gangs or abusive relatives?
No, mostly that there are no local places. So they get shipped off to seaside resorts and northern towns.
Many of those abused in rotherham had not been removed from support networks. Indeed many in those support networks reported over and over and over again the abuse. Even handed in evidence which some how kept going missing....
Now not by any means saying removal from support networks is a good thing but its not like you seem to be implying that if they only had their support networks and hadn't been removed then all would have been fine
The social services failed these children, The council failed these children The police failed these children The media failed these children and national politicians failed these children
It would be much harder for all these powers to fail children if parents didn't fail them too.
Their are many instances in the rotherham cases where parents were very much getting involved trying to stop it and being fobbed off by the south yorkshire pimp service
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
I've noticed a fair few right-leaning posters have conniptions when it's pointed out that 'the greatest Briton who ever lived'(™Jezza Hunt) was also a eugenicist, white supremacist and imperialist who thought Keep England White was an appropriate election slogan in the 1950s; it's all man of his times, got to be seen in context or lalalala, I'm not listening.
Anyway since you mentioned 'a fair few posters' first, name names and provide examples. Them's the rules.
But new polling by YouGov for The Times suggests that the public’s confidence in Sunak’s ability to deliver on the issue has waned rather than strengthened in recent weeks.
On March 8, the day after Sunak announced a host of legislative measures to stop boat crossings, 26 per cent of the public thought it was likely he would be able to deliver. In contrast, 59 per cent thought it was unlikely. In a new poll conducted last Wednesday and Thursday, only 21 per cent thought Sunak was likely to be able to stop the boats. Some 63 per cent thought he was unlikely to be able to do so. Among those who voted Conservative at the last election, 32 per cent thought the prime minister was likely to be able to achieve his goal and 60 per cent thought he was unlikely.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparents were arseholes
I’m actually with you on this. The sins of the fathers etc. Those born since it happened shouldn’t be held responsible.
However, the corollary is that Brits should not feel any pride in things our ancestors did that we weren’t involved in. Can’t have it both ways. Pride in the good bits but disowning the bad bits is inconsistent.
I can kind of get on board with this idea, to a degree, but in terms of fashionable opinions the sin side of the ledger seems to vastly outweigh the sin side.
It often seems pretty self centered to me, with people wallowing in their own historical sin or privilege like some kind of flagellant. The performance, the recitation of an agreed line more important than anything else, because it is about the individual putting themselves first.
I don't doubt many are well intentioned, but at present it does feel like there is an over focus about talking about how the individual should feel, and how they need to do more than act in a good manner, they need to talk about it ad nauseum.
"Wokeness" and "Social Justice" is not about reform. It's about performance.
It is also; in many cases particularly the former, about narcissism.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparen
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
It's the distinction between ius ad bellum, and ius in bello.
I think it was absolutely right to fight the Mau Mau. It's not a case of saying "times were different then." I think it was absolutely right to fight in Korea, and absolutely right to fight the Communists in Malaya.
But in each case, the side that was in the right committed atrocities , during the course of that fight.
Point of order...I don't believe we fought in korea
hmm why was my understanding we refused to join the usa in the korean war....maybe I got mixed up with vietnam
We were there in a modest way in Korea, we dodged Vietnam entirely
Reading some Vietnam War history recently, I did not realise how influential the UK was in this instance. The refusal of the UK to join with the USA came close to scuppering American involvement entirely. It was argued in Washington that if America's closest ally saw this as a mistake, it was probably a mistake. Shame our view did not quite prevail
Not sure 'modest' is quite right. There was a fair bit of remobilisation and the use of conscripts, and the period of conscript service was extended to 2 years fromk 18 months, though only some served there. Edit: and my father served in that theatre, albeit in the Navy, come to think of it.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparen
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
It's the distinction between ius ad bellum, and ius in bello.
I think it was absolutely right to fight the Mau Mau. It's not a case of saying "times were different then." I think it was absolutely right to fight in Korea, and absolutely right to fight the Communists in Malaya.
But in each case, the side that was in the right committed atrocities , during the course of that fight.
Point of order...I don't believe we fought in korea
hmm why was my understanding we refused to join the usa in the korean war....maybe I got mixed up with vietnam
We were there in a modest way in Korea, we dodged Vietnam entirely
Reading some Vietnam War history recently, I did not realise how influential the UK was in this instance. The refusal of the UK to join with the USA came close to scuppering American involvement entirely. It was argued in Washington that if America's closest ally saw this as a mistake, it was probably a mistake. Shame our view did not quite prevail
Australia and New Zealand did fight with the US in Vietnam. Technically Australia is the USA's closest ally on that basis, not us. The Australians have fought in all the main US wars alongside the Americans over the last century, both World Wars, Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War, Afghanistan and Iraq. The only nation to do so
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
I've noticed a fair few right-leaning posters have conniptions when it's pointed out that 'the greatest Briton who ever lived'(™Jezza Hunt) was also a eugenicist, white supremacist and imperialist who thought Keep England White was an appropriate election slogan in the 1950s; it's all man of his times, got to be seen in context or lalalala, I'm not listening.
Anyway since you mentioned 'a fair few posters' first, name names and provide examples. Them's the rules.
Can you link a post to someone having conniptions....I for one have no idea who Jezza hunt even is much less him being mentioned on pb or anyone having conniptions about it
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
I've noticed a fair few right-leaning posters have conniptions when it's pointed out that 'the greatest Briton who ever lived'(™Jezza Hunt) was also a eugenicist, white supremacist and imperialist who thought Keep England White was an appropriate election slogan in the 1950s; it's all man of his times, got to be seen in context or lalalala, I'm not listening.
Anyway since you mentioned 'a fair few posters' first, name names and provide examples. Them's the rules.
He was, but so what?
Lincoln and FDR were racists. It in no way detracts from the greatness of any of them.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparen
"Anne Longfield, the former children’s commissioner for England, said the large distances involved were a symptom of a broken system. “I have heard so many horrific stories of teenagers who are moved far from home to places where they know nobody,” she said. “They then become easy pickings for those who want to exploit and abuse children.
“The independent review of children’s social care published a year ago provided a roadmap to fixing this crisis. However, the government’s half-hearted response and its failure to provide the levels of investment required means hundreds of vulnerable children will continue to be put at risk in places they can’t even place on a map.”"
Dare we think that one way to stop the abuse of children in care might be to not place them hundreds of miles away from any social network that they have?
Is that not quite deliberate in many cases, to remove vulnerable kids from their local gangs or abusive relatives?
No, mostly that there are no local places. So they get shipped off to seaside resorts and northern towns.
Many of those abused in rotherham had not been removed from support networks. Indeed many in those support networks reported over and over and over again the abuse. Even handed in evidence which some how kept going missing....
Now not by any means saying removal from support networks is a good thing but its not like you seem to be implying that if they only had their support networks and hadn't been removed then all would have been fine
The social services failed these children, The council failed these children The police failed these children The media failed these children and national politicians failed these children
It would be much harder for all these powers to fail children if parents didn't fail them too.
Oh absolutely. We cannot deny people agency.
At least some of the Rotherham girls were in care though because they fell out with their parents over their older Pakistani "boyfriends".
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
I've noticed a fair few right-leaning posters have conniptions when it's pointed out that 'the greatest Briton who ever lived'(™Jezza Hunt) was also a eugenicist, white supremacist and imperialist who thought Keep England White was an appropriate election slogan in the 1950s; it's all man of his times, got to be seen in context or lalalala, I'm not listening.
Anyway since you mentioned 'a fair few posters' first, name names and provide examples. Them's the rules.
Not entirely, Churchill condemned the Amritsar massacre in Parliament, had a solid relationship with Gandhi and was of course the man who did more than any other in the UK to stand up to Hitler and the ultimate form of racial purity
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparen
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
It's the distinction between ius ad bellum, and ius in bello.
I think it was absolutely right to fight the Mau Mau. It's not a case of saying "times were different then." I think it was absolutely right to fight in Korea, and absolutely right to fight the Communists in Malaya.
But in each case, the side that was in the right committed atrocities , during the course of that fight.
Point of order...I don't believe we fought in korea
hmm why was my understanding we refused to join the usa in the korean war....maybe I got mixed up with vietnam
We were there in a modest way in Korea
"Imjin River was one of the bloodiest battles fought by the British Army since the Second World War. But the actions of the British and Belgian forces had given the South Korean and UN Forces the chance to retreat to a stronger defensive position, which allowed them to stop North Korean and Chinese forces advancing south."
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparent
Bit of a logic failure there Pagan - being within living memory matters, e.g.:
1. Auschwitz is within living memory; therefore it is likely, and indeed true, that there are still people alive today who suffered because of Auschwitz. 2. Auschwitz was created by and the clear responsibility of the German state.
Ergo: It seems reasonable that the German state should compensate those alive today who suffered at Auschwitz (if they have not already been compensated).
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
I've noticed a fair few right-leaning posters have conniptions when it's pointed out that 'the greatest Briton who ever lived'(™Jezza Hunt) was also a eugenicist, white supremacist and imperialist who thought Keep England White was an appropriate election slogan in the 1950s; it's all man of his times, got to be seen in context or lalalala, I'm not listening.
Anyway since you mentioned 'a fair few posters' first, name names and provide examples. Them's the rules.
Not entirely, Churchill condemned the Amritsar massacre in Parliament, had a solid relationship with Gandhi and was of course the man who did more than any other in the UK to stand up to Hitler and the ultimate form of racial purity
The Brits missed a trick in India by failing to point out to the Quit India movement that Hitler wanted white people to continue ruling the Subcontinent!
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparents were arseholes
I’m actually with you on this. The sins of the fathers etc. Those born since it happened shouldn’t be held responsible.
However, the corollary is that Brits should not feel any pride in things our ancestors did that we weren’t involved in. Can’t have it both ways. Pride in the good bits but disowning the bad bits is inconsistent.
I can kind of get on board with this idea, to a degree, but in terms of fashionable opinions the sin side of the ledger seems to vastly outweigh the sin side.
It often seems pretty self centered to me, with people wallowing in their own historical sin or privilege like some kind of flagellant. The performance, the recitation of an agreed line more important than anything else, because it is about the individual putting themselves first.
I don't doubt many are well intentioned, but at present it does feel like there is an over focus about talking about how the individual should feel, and how they need to do more than act in a good manner, they need to talk about it ad nauseum.
"Wokeness" and "Social Justice" is not about reform. It's about performance.
What, like the government's 'small boats' policy, you mean? And their recent announcements to reduce anti-social behaviour? And Sunak peering into a pothole? The current government is certainly keen on performative gestures, but less keen on wokeness and social justice.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparen
"Anne Longfield, the former children’s commissioner for England, said the large distances involved were a symptom of a broken system. “I have heard so many horrific stories of teenagers who are moved far from home to places where they know nobody,” she said. “They then become easy pickings for those who want to exploit and abuse children.
“The independent review of children’s social care published a year ago provided a roadmap to fixing this crisis. However, the government’s half-hearted response and its failure to provide the levels of investment required means hundreds of vulnerable children will continue to be put at risk in places they can’t even place on a map.”"
Dare we think that one way to stop the abuse of children in care might be to not place them hundreds of miles away from any social network that they have?
Is that not quite deliberate in many cases, to remove vulnerable kids from their local gangs or abusive relatives?
No, mostly that there are no local places. So they get shipped off to seaside resorts and northern towns.
Many of those abused in rotherham had not been removed from support networks. Indeed many in those support networks reported over and over and over again the abuse. Even handed in evidence which some how kept going missing....
Now not by any means saying removal from support networks is a good thing but its not like you seem to be implying that if they only had their support networks and hadn't been removed then all would have been fine
The social services failed these children, The council failed these children The police failed these children The media failed these children and national politicians failed these children
It would be much harder for all these powers to fail children if parents didn't fail them too.
Oh absolutely. We cannot deny people agency*.
At least some of the Rotherham girls were in care though because they fell out with their parents over their older Pakistani "boyfriends".
I have been careful not to point the rotherham blame at either side because I don't think it helps and realistically I don't think it would have made any difference.
Rotherham was a failure because too many people took the view that the consequences of pursuing it would rock to many boats and cause other problems potentially. That meant we failed actual victims for fear not doing so would cause more potential victims.
In so doing however when it finally came out it made things worse because it promotes the idea that certain things wont be investigated due to the identity of the perpetrators and therefore the idea of one law we are all subject too took yet another hit
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
I've noticed a fair few right-leaning posters have conniptions when it's pointed out that 'the greatest Briton who ever lived'(™Jezza Hunt) was also a eugenicist, white supremacist and imperialist who thought Keep England White was an appropriate election slogan in the 1950s; it's all man of his times, got to be seen in context or lalalala, I'm not listening.
Anyway since you mentioned 'a fair few posters' first, name names and provide examples. Them's the rules.
Not entirely, Churchill condemned the Amritsar massacre in Parliament, had a solid relationship with Gandhi and was of course the man who did more than any other in the UK to stand up to Hitler and the ultimate form of racial purity
The Brits missed a trick in India by failing to point out to the Quit India movement that Hitler wanted white people to continue ruling the Subcontinent!
And had Halifax not Churchill become PM in 1940 that may well still have continued, he would have done a deal with the Nazis to give them continental Europe in return for keeping UK independence and the Empire
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Indeed, @foxy is an exact example of this. It is a kind of mental deformity
We all do it.
I’ve just finished my Dissertation on the Peninsular War. Every party to that war was ruthless. I think that the British and Spanish were justified in their ruthlessness. If I were French, I’d think differently.
Yes, of course: but there is a special place for British lefties, as Orwell observed, who do this for THE OTHER SIDE
They will make any contortion possible to think the worst of Britain, the West, white people, America, while doing the same contortions to forgive or praise anything by black or brown people, the enemies of the West, Islam, the USSR, sometimes China, even Putin, etc
So these people manage to combine normal if regrettable human self-delusion with quasi-treachery, which is pretty impressive
The hatred of the bien pensant class for this country is truly a sight to behold.
I'd point that the self-flagellation doesn't extend to anything so gauche as, for example, trading down properties and giving the proceeds to help in the process of colonial restitution. Benedict Cumbernatch has a very nice house in North London that could be used to compensate those impacted by his ancestors' slave-owning past.
@Northern_Al, before @CorrectHorseBattery3 was banned, he said that the problem with the Tories now is that they don’t actually have any ideology or policies so they just do performance art whilst they come up with ideas. The problem is the ideas never come.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
I've noticed a fair few right-leaning posters have conniptions when it's pointed out that 'the greatest Briton who ever lived'(™Jezza Hunt) was also a eugenicist, white supremacist and imperialist who thought Keep England White was an appropriate election slogan in the 1950s; it's all man of his times, got to be seen in context or lalalala, I'm not listening.
Anyway since you mentioned 'a fair few posters' first, name names and provide examples. Them's the rules.
Not entirely, Churchill condemned the Amritsar massacre in Parliament, had a solid relationship with Gandhi and was of course the man who did more than any other in the UK to stand up to Hitler and the ultimate form of racial purity
The Brits missed a trick in India by failing to point out to the Quit India movement that Hitler wanted white people to continue ruling the Subcontinent!
I don't think the Quit India movement were advocating the Brits should listen to Hitler, more that they should listen to them.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
I've noticed a fair few right-leaning posters have conniptions when it's pointed out that 'the greatest Briton who ever lived'(™Jezza Hunt) was also a eugenicist, white supremacist and imperialist who thought Keep England White was an appropriate election slogan in the 1950s; it's all man of his times, got to be seen in context or lalalala, I'm not listening.
Anyway since you mentioned 'a fair few posters' first, name names and provide examples. Them's the rules.
Not entirely, Churchill condemned the Amritsar massacre in Parliament, had a solid relationship with Gandhi and was of course the man who did more than any other in the UK to stand up to Hitler and the ultimate form of racial purity
The Brits missed a trick in India by failing to point out to the Quit India movement that Hitler wanted white people to continue ruling the Subcontinent!
And had Halifax not Churchill become PM in 1940 that may well still have continued, he would have done a deal with the Nazis to give them continental Europe in return for keeping UK independence and the Empire
'UK independence' in that situation would have been a worthless facade of course.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
I've noticed a fair few right-leaning posters have conniptions when it's pointed out that 'the greatest Briton who ever lived'(™Jezza Hunt) was also a eugenicist, white supremacist and imperialist who thought Keep England White was an appropriate election slogan in the 1950s; it's all man of his times, got to be seen in context or lalalala, I'm not listening.
Anyway since you mentioned 'a fair few posters' first, name names and provide examples. Them's the rules.
Not entirely, Churchill condemned the Amritsar massacre in Parliament, had a solid relationship with Gandhi and was of course the man who did more than any other in the UK to stand up to Hitler and the ultimate form of racial purity
The Brits missed a trick in India by failing to point out to the Quit India movement that Hitler wanted white people to continue ruling the Subcontinent!
TBF it wasn't what the Japanese advocated, and they were a lot nearer once they'd got past Malaya.
@Northern_Al, before @CorrectHorseBattery3 was banned, he said that the problem with the Tories now is that they don’t actually have any ideology or policies so they just do performance art whilst they come up with ideas. The problem is the ideas never come.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
I've noticed a fair few right-leaning posters have conniptions when it's pointed out that 'the greatest Briton who ever lived'(™Jezza Hunt) was also a eugenicist, white supremacist and imperialist who thought Keep England White was an appropriate election slogan in the 1950s; it's all man of his times, got to be seen in context or lalalala, I'm not listening.
Anyway since you mentioned 'a fair few posters' first, name names and provide examples. Them's the rules.
Can you link a post to someone having conniptions....I for one have no idea who Jezza hunt even is much less him being mentioned on pb or anyone having conniptions about it
You thought the UK wasn't involved in the Korean War (which would have come as some surprise to my dad) so you're henceforth disqualified from being taken account of in any discussion with even a vague historical vibe.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparent
Bit of a logic failure there Pagan - being within living memory matters, e.g.:
1. Auschwitz is within living memory; therefore it is likely, and indeed true, that there are still people alive today who suffered because of Auschwitz. 2. Auschwitz was created by and the clear responsibility of the German state.
Ergo: It seems reasonable that the German state should compensate those alive today who suffered at Auschwitz (if they have not already been compensated).
Sorry this is stupidity at its maximum. 99% of people who took part in the holocaust are dead by now. The number of germans left in germany that took part probably number less than 10000 out of a population of 83 million.....why should the 82.99 million have to shell out for something they had nothing to do with.
If my father was the yorkshire ripper and was sentenced to 99 years in jail but died after 45 years in jail should I have to serve the other 44 years of his sentence even though I had nothing to do with his crimes? That is what you are arguing for here. Want to pursue reparations then go sue the people who did that shit
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparen
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
It's the distinction between ius ad bellum, and ius in bello.
I think it was absolutely right to fight the Mau Mau. It's not a case of saying "times were different then." I think it was absolutely right to fight in Korea, and absolutely right to fight the Communists in Malaya.
But in each case, the side that was in the right committed atrocities , during the course of that fight.
Point of order...I don't believe we fought in korea
hmm why was my understanding we refused to join the usa in the korean war....maybe I got mixed up with vietnam
We were there in a modest way in Korea, we dodged Vietnam entirely
Reading some Vietnam War history recently, I did not realise how influential the UK was in this instance. The refusal of the UK to join with the USA came close to scuppering American involvement entirely. It was argued in Washington that if America's closest ally saw this as a mistake, it was probably a mistake. Shame our view did not quite prevail
Not sure 'modest' is quite right. There was a fair bit of remobilisation and the use of conscripts, and the period of conscript service was extended to 2 years fromk 18 months, though only some served there. Edit: and my father served in that theatre, albeit in the Navy, come to think of it.
I mean modest in terms of numerical contribution
America's peak involvement in the Korean War saw 330,000 US soldiers in the field. Britain's peak saw 15,000. Fairly tiny in comparison
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
I've noticed a fair few right-leaning posters have conniptions when it's pointed out that 'the greatest Briton who ever lived'(™Jezza Hunt) was also a eugenicist, white supremacist and imperialist who thought Keep England White was an appropriate election slogan in the 1950s; it's all man of his times, got to be seen in context or lalalala, I'm not listening.
Anyway since you mentioned 'a fair few posters' first, name names and provide examples. Them's the rules.
Not entirely, Churchill condemned the Amritsar massacre in Parliament, had a solid relationship with Gandhi and was of course the man who did more than any other in the UK to stand up to Hitler and the ultimate form of racial purity
The Brits missed a trick in India by failing to point out to the Quit India movement that Hitler wanted white people to continue ruling the Subcontinent!
And had Halifax not Churchill become PM in 1940 that may well still have continued, he would have done a deal with the Nazis to give them continental Europe in return for keeping UK independence and the Empire
'UK independence' in that situation would have been a worthless facade of course.
Not sure that's the case. A continuing British Empire would have continued to be a match for Germany. And I think Nazi Germany would be facing serious consequences in 10 years from an unsustainable economic model.
But we did the morally right thing for everyone else.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Indeed, @foxy is an exact example of this. It is a kind of mental deformity
We all do it.
I’ve just finished my Dissertation on the Peninsular War. Every party to that war was ruthless. I think that the British and Spanish were justified in their ruthlessness. If I were French, I’d think differently.
Yes, of course: but there is a special place for British lefties, as Orwell observed, who do this for THE OTHER SIDE
They will make any contortion possible to think the worst of Britain, the West, white people, America, while doing the same contortions to forgive or praise anything by black or brown people, the enemies of the West, Islam, the USSR, sometimes China, even Putin, etc
So these people manage to combine normal if regrettable human self-delusion with quasi-treachery, which is pretty impressive
The hatred of the bien pensant class for this country is truly a sight to behold.
I'd point that the self-flagellation doesn't extend to anything so gauche as, for example, trading down properties and giving the proceeds to help in the process of colonial restitution. Benedict Cumbernatch has a very nice house in North London that could be used to compensate those impacted by his ancestors' slave-owning past.
@Northern_Al, before @CorrectHorseBattery3 was banned, he said that the problem with the Tories now is that they don’t actually have any ideology or policies so they just do performance art whilst they come up with ideas. The problem is the ideas never come.
Unban that man! (Social) Justice for CHB3!
I think he enjoys being a martyr on the whole, he is the islington one
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
I've noticed a fair few right-leaning posters have conniptions when it's pointed out that 'the greatest Briton who ever lived'(™Jezza Hunt) was also a eugenicist, white supremacist and imperialist who thought Keep England White was an appropriate election slogan in the 1950s; it's all man of his times, got to be seen in context or lalalala, I'm not listening.
Anyway since you mentioned 'a fair few posters' first, name names and provide examples. Them's the rules.
Well, I haven't seen any comments from yourself criticising the Mau Mau's actions in the context of the debate so there's one for a start.
I don't know who is 'Jezza Hunt' is but it looks like you mean Churchill who certainly had his bad points as well as his good but where the latter outshone the former.
He certainly knew the Nazis were evil, far more than at least some of the founders of the SNP who seemed rather keen to emulate the Nazis' racial theories. So maybe you should start off by cleaning out the skeletons in that closet first and give us a shining example of how to deal with problematic issues from the past.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
I've noticed a fair few right-leaning posters have conniptions when it's pointed out that 'the greatest Briton who ever lived'(™Jezza Hunt) was also a eugenicist, white supremacist and imperialist who thought Keep England White was an appropriate election slogan in the 1950s; it's all man of his times, got to be seen in context or lalalala, I'm not listening.
Anyway since you mentioned 'a fair few posters' first, name names and provide examples. Them's the rules.
Not entirely, Churchill condemned the Amritsar massacre in Parliament, had a solid relationship with Gandhi and was of course the man who did more than any other in the UK to stand up to Hitler and the ultimate form of racial purity
The Brits missed a trick in India by failing to point out to the Quit India movement that Hitler wanted white people to continue ruling the Subcontinent!
And had Halifax not Churchill become PM in 1940 that may well still have continued, he would have done a deal with the Nazis to give them continental Europe in return for keeping UK independence and the Empire
'UK independence' in that situation would have been a worthless facade of course.
Not sure that's the case. A continuing British Empire would have continued to be a match for Germany. And I think Nazi Germany would be facing serious consequences in 10 years from an unsustainable economic model.
But we did the morally right thing for everyone else.
Plus the British Empire would naturally have allied with the USA to confront the German threat
It would probably have been a prequel of the Cold War, the West versus communism, but in this case the Anglosphere versus Nazism. The outcome would surely have depended on who got nukes first. Hard to call
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Indeed, @foxy is an exact example of this. It is a kind of mental deformity
We all do it.
I’ve just finished my Dissertation on the Peninsular War. Every party to that war was ruthless. I think that the British and Spanish were justified in their ruthlessness. If I were French, I’d think differently.
Yes, of course: but there is a special place for British lefties, as Orwell observed, who do this for THE OTHER SIDE
They will make any contortion possible to think the worst of Britain, the West, white people, America, while doing the same contortions to forgive or praise anything by black or brown people, the enemies of the West, Islam, the USSR, sometimes China, even Putin, etc
So these people manage to combine normal if regrettable human self-delusion with quasi-treachery, which is pretty impressive
The hatred of the bien pensant class for this country is truly a sight to behold.
I'd point that the self-flagellation doesn't extend to anything so gauche as, for example, trading down properties and giving the proceeds to help in the process of colonial restitution. Benedict Cumbernatch has a very nice house in North London that could be used to compensate those impacted by his ancestors' slave-owning past.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
I've noticed a fair few right-leaning posters have conniptions when it's pointed out that 'the greatest Briton who ever lived'(™Jezza Hunt) was also a eugenicist, white supremacist and imperialist who thought Keep England White was an appropriate election slogan in the 1950s; it's all man of his times, got to be seen in context or lalalala, I'm not listening.
Anyway since you mentioned 'a fair few posters' first, name names and provide examples. Them's the rules.
Not entirely, Churchill condemned the Amritsar massacre in Parliament, had a solid relationship with Gandhi and was of course the man who did more than any other in the UK to stand up to Hitler and the ultimate form of racial purity
The Brits missed a trick in India by failing to point out to the Quit India movement that Hitler wanted white people to continue ruling the Subcontinent!
I don't think the Quit India movement were advocating the Brits should listen to Hitler, more that they should listen to them.
You misunderstood my point - the Quit India were fools to think that defeat of the British would mean the end of colonialism.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparent
Bit of a logic failure there Pagan - being within living memory matters, e.g.:
1. Auschwitz is within living memory; therefore it is likely, and indeed true, that there are still people alive today who suffered because of Auschwitz. 2. Auschwitz was created by and the clear responsibility of the German state.
Ergo: It seems reasonable that the German state should compensate those alive today who suffered at Auschwitz (if they have not already been compensated).
Sorry this is stupidity at its maximum. 99% of people who took part in the holocaust are dead by now. The number of germans left in germany that took part probably number less than 10000 out of a population of 83 million.....why should the 82.99 million have to shell out for something they had nothing to do with.
If my father was the yorkshire ripper and was sentenced to 99 years in jail but died after 45 years in jail should I have to serve the other 44 years of his sentence even though I had nothing to do with his crimes? That is what you are arguing for here. Want to pursue reparations then go sue the people who did that shit
Germany does in fact still pay out to victims of the Holocaust:
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparen
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Sometimes there are quite a few people on the right who are quite happy to condemn every action of enemies of their own government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
Fish, barrel etc.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
It's the distinction between ius ad bellum, and ius in bello.
I think it was absolutely right to fight the Mau Mau. It's not a case of saying "times were different then." I think it was absolutely right to fight in Korea, and absolutely right to fight the Communists in Malaya.
But in each case, the side that was in the right committed atrocities , during the course of that fight.
Point of order...I don't believe we fought in korea
hmm why was my understanding we refused to join the usa in the korean war....maybe I got mixed up with vietnam
We were there in a modest way in Korea, we dodged Vietnam entirely
Reading some Vietnam War history recently, I did not realise how influential the UK was in this instance. The refusal of the UK to join with the USA came close to scuppering American involvement entirely. It was argued in Washington that if America's closest ally saw this as a mistake, it was probably a mistake. Shame our view did not quite prevail
Not sure 'modest' is quite right. There was a fair bit of remobilisation and the use of conscripts, and the period of conscript service was extended to 2 years fromk 18 months, though only some served there. Edit: and my father served in that theatre, albeit in the Navy, come to think of it.
I mean modest in terms of numerical contribution
America's peak involvement in the Korean War saw 330,000 US soldiers in the field. Britain's peak saw 15,000. Fairly tiny in comparison
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparen
"Anne Longfield, the former children’s commissioner for England, said the large distances involved were a symptom of a broken system. “I have heard so many horrific stories of teenagers who are moved far from home to places where they know nobody,” she said. “They then become easy pickings for those who want to exploit and abuse children.
“The independent review of children’s social care published a year ago provided a roadmap to fixing this crisis. However, the government’s half-hearted response and its failure to provide the levels of investment required means hundreds of vulnerable children will continue to be put at risk in places they can’t even place on a map.”"
Dare we think that one way to stop the abuse of children in care might be to not place them hundreds of miles away from any social network that they have?
Is that not quite deliberate in many cases, to remove vulnerable kids from their local gangs or abusive relatives?
No, mostly that there are no local places. So they get shipped off to seaside resorts and northern towns.
Many of those abused in rotherham had not been removed from support networks. Indeed many in those support networks reported over and over and over again the abuse. Even handed in evidence which some how kept going missing....
Now not by any means saying removal from support networks is a good thing but its not like you seem to be implying that if they only had their support networks and hadn't been removed then all would have been fine
The social services failed these children, The council failed these children The police failed these children The media failed these children and national politicians failed these children
It would be much harder for all these powers to fail children if parents didn't fail them too.
Oh absolutely. We cannot deny people agency*.
At least some of the Rotherham girls were in care though because they fell out with their parents over their older Pakistani "boyfriends".
I have been careful not to point the rotherham blame at either side because I don't think it helps and realistically I don't think it would have made any difference.
Rotherham was a failure because too many people took the view that the consequences of pursuing it would rock to many boats and cause other problems potentially. That meant we failed actual victims for fear not doing so would cause more potential victims.
In so doing however when it finally came out it made things worse because it promotes the idea that certain things wont be investigated due to the identity of the perpetrators and therefore the idea of one law we are all subject too took yet another hit
To understand Rotherham, you have to understand a series of well meaning policies that intersected in disaster.
From the social services side, in the beginning there was Borstal et al. Essentially imprisoning children. Abuse was rife.
So things were improved. Children’s rights were respected. The Borstals and other institutions of their ilk were torn down. Often literally.
The problem was that this didn’t lead to a happy situation either.
The prize winning blogger Winston Smith described a system were children were not prevented from doing anything. If they wanted, they would leave care homes at any time, and hid were they liked. Staff were more concerned with not being accused of assaulting the children than they were in protecting them from a cruel world. Children need sensible boundaries to help with them growing up and entering society. None were provided.
Mr Smith described how some would be picked up by taxi drivers from the homes. Night after night.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
I've noticed a fair few right-leaning posters have conniptions when it's pointed out that 'the greatest Briton who ever lived'(™Jezza Hunt) was also a eugenicist, white supremacist and imperialist who thought Keep England White was an appropriate election slogan in the 1950s; it's all man of his times, got to be seen in context or lalalala, I'm not listening.
Anyway since you mentioned 'a fair few posters' first, name names and provide examples. Them's the rules.
Not entirely, Churchill condemned the Amritsar massacre in Parliament, had a solid relationship with Gandhi and was of course the man who did more than any other in the UK to stand up to Hitler and the ultimate form of racial purity
A solid relationship with the 'half naked fakir' who Churchill believed was a bad man and an enemy of the Empire who should be allowed to starve himself to death? A novel interpretation.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparent
Bit of a logic failure there Pagan - being within living memory matters, e.g.:
1. Auschwitz is within living memory; therefore it is likely, and indeed true, that there are still people alive today who suffered because of Auschwitz. 2. Auschwitz was created by and the clear responsibility of the German state.
Ergo: It seems reasonable that the German state should compensate those alive today who suffered at Auschwitz (if they have not already been compensated).
Sorry this is stupidity at its maximum. 99% of people who took part in the holocaust are dead by now. The number of germans left in germany that took part probably number less than 10000 out of a population of 83 million.....why should the 82.99 million have to shell out for something they had nothing to do with.
If my father was the yorkshire ripper and was sentenced to 99 years in jail but died after 45 years in jail should I have to serve the other 44 years of his sentence even though I had nothing to do with his crimes? That is what you are arguing for here. Want to pursue reparations then go sue the people who did that shit
Germany does in fact still pay out to victims of the Holocaust:
Does italy owe those of celtic heritage reparations? Do the normans owe those of saxon heritage reparations? Do the spanish owe the incas reparations? Do the french owe all the places napolean conquered reparations?
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparent
Bit of a logic failure there Pagan - being within living memory matters, e.g.:
1. Auschwitz is within living memory; therefore it is likely, and indeed true, that there are still people alive today who suffered because of Auschwitz. 2. Auschwitz was created by and the clear responsibility of the German state.
Ergo: It seems reasonable that the German state should compensate those alive today who suffered at Auschwitz (if they have not already been compensated).
Sorry this is stupidity at its maximum. 99% of people who took part in the holocaust are dead by now. The number of germans left in germany that took part probably number less than 10000 out of a population of 83 million.....why should the 82.99 million have to shell out for something they had nothing to do with.
If my father was the yorkshire ripper and was sentenced to 99 years in jail but died after 45 years in jail should I have to serve the other 44 years of his sentence even though I had nothing to do with his crimes? That is what you are arguing for here. Want to pursue reparations then go sue the people who did that shit
Your argument does have some logic but only if you ignore the existence of a nation state as an entity that can commit crimes, be held accountable for them and pay compensation.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
I've noticed a fair few right-leaning posters have conniptions when it's pointed out that 'the greatest Briton who ever lived'(™Jezza Hunt) was also a eugenicist, white supremacist and imperialist who thought Keep England White was an appropriate election slogan in the 1950s; it's all man of his times, got to be seen in context or lalalala, I'm not listening.
Anyway since you mentioned 'a fair few posters' first, name names and provide examples. Them's the rules.
Not entirely, Churchill condemned the Amritsar massacre in Parliament, had a solid relationship with Gandhi and was of course the man who did more than any other in the UK to stand up to Hitler and the ultimate form of racial purity
The Brits missed a trick in India by failing to point out to the Quit India movement that Hitler wanted white people to continue ruling the Subcontinent!
And had Halifax not Churchill become PM in 1940 that may well still have continued, he would have done a deal with the Nazis to give them continental Europe in return for keeping UK independence and the Empire
'UK independence' in that situation would have been a worthless facade of course.
Hitler’s vision for it - according to his intimates, anyway - was that the U.K. would simply mind its own business, run its own Empire etc.
I can't think of a right-leaning poster on here who has defended British colonial actions as justifiable (understandable in the context maybe).In fact, quite the opposite and a fair few have mentioned the brutality proactively.
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
I've noticed a fair few right-leaning posters have conniptions when it's pointed out that 'the greatest Briton who ever lived'(™Jezza Hunt) was also a eugenicist, white supremacist and imperialist who thought Keep England White was an appropriate election slogan in the 1950s; it's all man of his times, got to be seen in context or lalalala, I'm not listening.
Anyway since you mentioned 'a fair few posters' first, name names and provide examples. Them's the rules.
Not entirely, Churchill condemned the Amritsar massacre in Parliament, had a solid relationship with Gandhi and was of course the man who did more than any other in the UK to stand up to Hitler and the ultimate form of racial purity
The Brits missed a trick in India by failing to point out to the Quit India movement that Hitler wanted white people to continue ruling the Subcontinent!
Gandhi wanted the Jews to submit willingly to extermination and the British to submit to the Nazis.
It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.
I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.
This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.
What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.
I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.
Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.
"It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."
Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.
Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparents were arseholes
I’m actually with you on this. The sins of the fathers etc. Those born since it happened shouldn’t be held responsible.
However, the corollary is that Brits should not feel any pride in things our ancestors did that we weren’t involved in. Can’t have it both ways. Pride in the good bits but disowning the bad bits is inconsistent.
More weight should be given, particularly in the education system, to social history alongside the traditional structure of kings and battles. Slavery is a big part of the picture within that: most medieval people were exploited as slaves or something very close to it in this country; conditions for the poor remained pretty wretched even after feudal serfdom had become a thing of the distant part; and then, of course, there was exploitation of bonded labour (primarily Africans, but also of Europeans as transported prisoners or through the Barbary slave trade,) for several hundred years during the colonial period. Most people are largely clueless about most of this stuff and it would do no harm at all for them to learn a bit more.
The real difficulties arise when someone decides to raise the subject of reparations. Telling, say, a single Mum in Carlisle, who's trying to raise a couple of kiddies on a minimum wage job and desultory top-up benefits, that some of her taxes now have to go on paying compensation to people in Dominica - because their ancestors were slaves two centuries ago and that's why she is now "rich" - is unlikely to go down well.
Most people lived (by our standards) pretty grim lives in the past. Our standard of living is 40 times subsistence. For people alive in the UK in 1800, the standard of living was similar to modern Zimbabwe. So, yes, the world was a dog eat dog place.
And, the Greens seem to think those were halcyon days.
Comments
Fish, barrel etc.
Nicholas Kristof: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Kristof
(I rather like Kristof, though I only agree with him on politics part of the time. He's a "bleeding heart liberal". I honor him for his good intentions, but believe he needs to think harder about practical solutions.
His wife, Sheryl WuDunn, is, to say the least, impressive.)
I make it that there are only nine managerial survivors from the start of the season: Klopp, Guardiola, Arteta, Moyes, Silva, Cooper, Howe, Frank and ten Hag - and two of them are in charge of relegation threatened sides and might yet succumb. Is there a record for departures?
In wonder when the MSM will run a campaign along the lines: "Why Oh Why do newspapers pay so little that their staff can't afford to rent a one room flat in an east London war zone? We fearlessly investigate"
What should matter is the victims.
Often forgot by both sides.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/30/rotherham-girls-could-have-been-spared-ann-cryer
Oh - and in a more lighthearted, but still enjoyable way, 'Mr. and Mrs. Murder' from Australia. Again - takes a couple of episodes to get into.
Looking at you @Nigel_Foremain and @Foxy
Tom, when you look at the media and cultural landscape, would you say we are generally overrating or underrating the existential threat from AI? Or rating it about right? "
"Lots of people will have heard of the idea that there is some sort of existential threat from AI, but it tends to get sidelined. People think ‘This sounds a bit science fiction, like Terminator, so we're not going to pay attention to it’. I get that. Others think it’s a deflection tactic from the tech companies who don't want to talk about how AI is entrenching racist or sexist biases in society or how they’re enriching themselves at the expense of everyone else. And it is just a big and kind of crazy-sounding topic that’s very hard to convey in an 800-word newspaper column.
So it does get attention, but much of that attention is of the “lol tech bros” type. I think that is unfortunate. The questions around algorithmic bias are certainly not trivial (although I do think we should always ask, ‘What are you comparing it to?’ - since, generally speaking, I think you can make algorithms less racist than humans, or you can certainly adjust them in a way that you can't easily adjust humans). These are real problems. But the existence of these real problems doesn't mean that talking about the risk of catastrophe from AI is inherently insane or a distraction."
The whole thread is worth a look
https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1642436695663550465?s=20
And this:
"Fox News’ Peter Doocy uses all his time at the White House press briefing to ask about an assessment that “literally everyone on Earth will die” because of artificial intelligence:
“It sounds crazy, but is it?”"
https://twitter.com/Liv_Boeree/status/1641637886003904513?s=20
"Finally it is argued that this is Africa, that things are different there. Of course they are. The question is whether the difference between things there and here is such that the taking of responsibility there and here should be upon different principles. We claim that it is our object—and this is something which unites both sides of the House—to leave representative institutions behind us wherever we give up our rule. I cannot imagine that it is a way to plant representative institutions to be seen to shirk the acceptance and the assignment of responsibility, which is the very essence of responsible Government.
Nor can we ourselves pick and choose where and in what parts of the world we shall use this or that kind of standard. We cannot say, "We will have African standards in Africa, Asian standards in Asia and perhaps British standards here at home." We have not that choice to make. We must be consistent with ourselves everywhere. All Government, all influence of man upon man, rests upon opinion. What we can do in Africa, where we still govern and where we no longer govern, depends upon the opinion which is entertained of the way in which this country acts and the way in which Englishmen act. We cannot, we dare not, in Africa of all places, fall below our own highest standards in the acceptance of responsibility."
94% counted NCP 48 Finns 46 SDP 43.
Not sure if there is a path to a majority for NCP+Finns govt, Centre might be most likely joiner of this, otherwise it could maybe be NCP SDP SPP Greens.
It does not mean the government (and tens of thousands of Kenyans) were wrong to fight the Mau Mau.
Lest we forget, Salmond won an outright majority in the Scottish Parliament in 2011, in a system designed to make this exceedingly difficult. Sturgeon actually went slightly backwards in 2016, but that's by-the-by. GE2015 came along in the immediate aftermath of the thwarting of the Yes side in the referendum, with a highly motivated pro-independence vote still smarting from defeat (and united against a splintered collection of Unionist parties,) after five years of "Government we didn't vote for" led by the Tories in London, and with Scottish Labour on the floor in bits. Practically anyone could've led the SNP to a landslide in that vote. Sturgeon was merely the beneficiary of those conditions.
I’ve just finished my Dissertation on the Peninsular War. Every party to that war was ruthless. I think that the British and Spanish were justified in their ruthlessness. If I were French, I’d think differently.
It can only be managed until some novus actus interveniens trots along and we focus on some other element of the picture which means our population rises by 500,000 a year while employers can't find the people they need.
Not just your society. One of the reasons I like the Tony Hillerman Navajo stories is that he confronts such problems, honestly. For example, in "Dance Hall of the Dead, the detective Joe Leaphorn, is thinking about Susanne, who is living in a hippy commune, after her father rejected her, and wonders why whites don't take better care of their children. But then he remembers that he is searching for a Navajo boy, whose mother left years ago, and whose father is an alcoholic.
(I enjoy the Hillerman stories as much, or more, for his descriptions of Navajo, Hopi, and Zuni societies, as for the actual crime solving.
I perhaps should warn any lawyers that Leaphorn, and, even more, a younger detective, Jim Chee, often act to bring harmony and justice -- sometimes at the expense of the law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Hillerman )
My eldest son could live until 2100 with a fair wind. What will our relationship with AI look like then? It ain’t going to be limited to forging GCSE essays.
The brutality of British counter-insurgency in Kenya shocked even him, and was well enough known at the time to be debated in Parliament.
Now not by any means saying removal from support networks is a good thing but its not like you seem to be implying that if they only had their support networks and hadn't been removed then all would have been fine
The social services failed these children,
The council failed these children
The police failed these children
The media failed these children
and national politicians failed these children
Whereas I can think of a fair few posters who always seem to take, shall we say, a consistently anti-British line where the atrocities committed by the other side never get mentioned.
But inform us otherwise.
In Bulgaria, not much has changed. Revival has gained 10 seats but that’s mainly because another nationalist group missed the 4% threshold.
In Finland, the Finns Party are the big winners but the National Coalition is just ahead with 48 seats to 46 for the Finns and 43 for the Social Democrats.
They will make any contortion possible to think the worst of Britain, the West, white people, America, while doing the same contortions to forgive or praise anything by black or brown people, the enemies of the West, Islam, the USSR, sometimes China, even Putin, etc
So these people manage to combine normal if regrettable human self-delusion with quasi-treachery, which is pretty impressive
With the notable exceptions of the aftermath of Badajoz - where British troops went on a totally immoral rampage - I'm not sure they descended to quite the same level of savagery as the French.
One of the biggest failures of the last 13 years has been the inability to come up with a viable solution to the issue of the funding of adult social care.
Malaya was a much better example of a counter-insurgency campaign.
It often seems pretty self centered to me, with people wallowing in their own historical sin or privilege like some kind of flagellant. The performance, the recitation of an agreed line more important than anything else, because it is about the individual putting themselves first.
I don't doubt many are well intentioned, but at present it does feel like there is an over focus about talking about how the individual should feel, and how they need to do more than act in a good manner, they need to talk about it ad nauseum.
If I say the roman empire did a lot of good but also had a lot of bad points I dont think that anyone would claim I was taking pride in the roman empire.
I say the same about the british empire and suddenly people assume I am taking pride while excusing the atrocities
I think it was absolutely right to fight the Mau Mau. It's not a case of saying "times were different then." I think it was absolutely right to fight in Korea, and absolutely right to fight the Communists in Malaya.
But in each case, the side that was in the right committed atrocities , during the course of that fight.
https://www.britishlegion.org.uk/stories/the-korean-war
https://www.markpack.org.uk/130735/enoch-powell-pogo-stick/
Reading some Vietnam War history recently, I did not realise how influential the UK was in this instance. The refusal of the UK to join with the USA came close to scuppering American involvement entirely. It was argued in Washington that if America's closest ally saw this as a mistake, it was probably a mistake. Shame our view did not quite prevail
Anyway since you mentioned 'a fair few posters' first, name names and provide examples. Them's the rules.
But new polling by YouGov for The Times suggests that the public’s confidence in Sunak’s ability to deliver on the issue has waned rather than strengthened in recent weeks.
On March 8, the day after Sunak announced a host of legislative measures to stop boat crossings, 26 per cent of the public thought it was likely he would be able to deliver. In contrast, 59 per cent thought it was unlikely.
In a new poll conducted last Wednesday and Thursday, only 21 per cent thought Sunak was likely to be able to stop the boats. Some 63 per cent thought he was unlikely to be able to do so. Among those who voted Conservative at the last election, 32 per cent thought the prime minister was likely to be able to achieve his goal and 60 per cent thought he was unlikely.
Lincoln and FDR were racists. It in no way detracts from the greatness of any of them.
At least some of the Rotherham girls were in care though because they fell out with their parents over their older Pakistani "boyfriends".
https://www.britishlegion.org.uk/stories/the-korean-war
1. Auschwitz is within living memory; therefore it is likely, and indeed true, that there are still people alive today who suffered because of Auschwitz.
2. Auschwitz was created by and the clear responsibility of the German state.
Ergo: It seems reasonable that the German state should compensate those alive today who suffered at Auschwitz (if they have not already been compensated).
Rotherham was a failure because too many people took the view that the consequences of pursuing it would rock to many boats and cause other problems potentially. That meant we failed actual victims for fear not doing so would cause more potential victims.
In so doing however when it finally came out it made things worse because it promotes the idea that certain things wont be investigated due to the identity of the perpetrators and therefore the idea of one law we are all subject too took yet another hit
I'd point that the self-flagellation doesn't extend to anything so gauche as, for example, trading down properties and giving the proceeds to help in the process of colonial restitution. Benedict Cumbernatch has a very nice house in North London that could be used to compensate those impacted by his ancestors' slave-owning past.
Goodnight all.
If my father was the yorkshire ripper and was sentenced to 99 years in jail but died after 45 years in jail should I have to serve the other 44 years of his sentence even though I had nothing to do with his crimes? That is what you are arguing for here. Want to pursue reparations then go sue the people who did that shit
America's peak involvement in the Korean War saw 330,000 US soldiers in the field. Britain's peak saw 15,000. Fairly tiny in comparison
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War
And now I must away and digest my guineafowl, and watch Yellowstone Season 3. It's highly entertaining
But we did the morally right thing for everyone else.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/27/british-slave-owners-family-makes-public-apology-in-grenada?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
The Guardian itself has too:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/03/28/guardian-says-sorry-slavery-links-sets-10m-reparation-fund/
Sorry really I think he enjoys being a martyr on the whole, he is the islington one
I don't know who is 'Jezza Hunt' is but it looks like you mean Churchill who certainly had his bad points as well as his good but where the latter outshone the former.
He certainly knew the Nazis were evil, far more than at least some of the founders of the SNP who seemed rather keen to emulate the Nazis' racial theories. So maybe you should start off by cleaning out the skeletons in that closet first and give us a shining example of how to deal with problematic issues from the past.
It would probably have been a prequel of the Cold War, the West versus communism, but in this case the Anglosphere versus Nazism. The outcome would surely have depended on who got nukes first. Hard to call
https://uk.diplo.de/uk-en/02/A-Z/holocaust-victim-compensation
From the social services side, in the beginning there was Borstal et al. Essentially imprisoning children. Abuse was rife.
So things were improved. Children’s rights were respected. The Borstals and other institutions of their ilk were torn down. Often literally.
The problem was that this didn’t lead to a happy situation either.
The prize winning blogger Winston Smith described a system were children were not prevented from doing anything. If they wanted, they would leave care homes at any time, and hid were they liked. Staff were more concerned with not being accused of assaulting the children than they were in protecting them from a cruel world. Children need sensible boundaries to help with them growing up and entering society. None were provided.
Mr Smith described how some would be picked up by taxi drivers from the homes. Night after night.
Does italy owe those of celtic heritage reparations?
Do the normans owe those of saxon heritage reparations?
Do the spanish owe the incas reparations?
Do the french owe all the places napolean conquered reparations?
He expected open trade and neutrality, basically.
I can see why his star has faded.