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Labour’s useless strategy? – politicalbetting.com

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  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    Yes. I’m on top of Primrose Hill and it’s definitely spring. The sun has suddenly emerged. And the people. The soft wind is cold yet somehow unthreatening. It speaks in kindly words of warmth ahead



    It was about this time in Covid Year One that we started a wonderful run of weather.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872

    Pagan2 said:

    Ok sorry going to be mr angry here. Yes a the majority of child sexual abuse happens in the family and friends arena. The minority in the grooming gang arena

    However the difference is the problem in the family arena is getting it reported and when it is the authorities deal with it.

    In the grooming gang area it is reported and the authorities tend to ignore it because of cultural issues

    Ok Mr Angry, I am looking forward to your evidence to support that assertion.
    All the reports on rotherham support that view
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,766
    Foxy said:

    Omnium said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Seeing as we are talking about our favourite drinks, can I just recommend the Marks and Spencer own brand (but actually Lustau: a great sherrymaker) Palo Cortado sherry

    £8 a half bottle. It is totally superb. Rich yet dry, aromatic and intense, delicate and succulent

    For comparison the only-slightly-better Lustau 30 year old VROS Palo Cortado costs £50 for a pint-bottle

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lustau-Year-Vors-Oloroso-Sherry/dp/B00Z6BU7BK

    Sherry has been the biggest bargain in the Wine world since it became unfashionable in the US and UK in about 1990. It is also largely unfashionable in Spain, drunk little outside its area of production.

    A white burgundy or claret of the same general quality as a £30 sherry would be £150.

    Of course, none of this is any use unless you happen to like the stuff.

    Jerez is pleasant, if rather obviously run down these days. Worth a stop on the way from Seville to Cadiz.
    You're right of course. There's become almost no choice or variation. I think the same is true of port, and Madeira has been astonishingly out of fashion for decades.

    It's a dark thing though. If you want to buy good Port or Madeira it'll cost you as many arms and legs as you have. I don't know who's buying it.
    I am quite a fan of Madeira, polished by visiting the Island a number of times. It keeps very well when opened and is delicious alongside rich puddings such as at Christmas. Great value too.
    Well I am too, but just the very very old stuff. It used to be much dryer, and it had the quality of being quite sweet initially, but almost vanishing and refreshing as an after-taste.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,300
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    ..

    Obviously the Isle of Wight, rather than Scotland, because there’s a ferry working.
    I recall a trip to Morocco. We were on a ferry from Algeciras to Tangier. My friend, who knew little of ships, commented on the rust. I told him to go below, and get 4 double gin and tonics. He asked where I would be.

    “Right here, sitting on the locker marker “lifebelts”, right next to the lifeboat, on the open deck….”
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586

    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile in Italy:


    What's the Italian for 'pissing in the wind'?

    It would be fascinating to examine the global spread of languages in, say, the year 2500 (assuming the human race survives).

    If there's an apocalyptic breakdown of technological civilisation there will be an ever-increasing myriad of languages, but if civilisation continues there will be just one global language - a variant of English.
    I'm not sure I would bet on that. Technology has made it possible for every language to be a global language.
    By 2050, rather than 2500, it will either be:

    English, Mandarin, and Spanish, mean you can talk to anyone in the world

    Or

    The computers are so good, that even sensitive diplomatic meetings no longer require human translators, even for obscure tribal languages.
  • At Christmas I bought myself a present: a dark brown moleskin paperboy hat

    I've been wearing it at work to "wear it in", and have had a few compliments, but got my favourite yesterday

    A young chap (I think 25-30) answered the door for a parcel. He didn't look at his parcel and said, "Your hat is so cool"

    We then had a two or three minute hat chat
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,250
    carnforth said:

    Omnium said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Seeing as we are talking about our favourite drinks, can I just recommend the Marks and Spencer own brand (but actually Lustau: a great sherrymaker) Palo Cortado sherry

    £8 a half bottle. It is totally superb. Rich yet dry, aromatic and intense, delicate and succulent

    For comparison the only-slightly-better Lustau 30 year old VROS Palo Cortado costs £50 for a pint-bottle

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lustau-Year-Vors-Oloroso-Sherry/dp/B00Z6BU7BK

    Sherry has been the biggest bargain in the Wine world since it became unfashionable in the US and UK in about 1990. It is also largely unfashionable in Spain, drunk little outside its area of production.

    A white burgundy or claret of the same general quality as a £30 sherry would be £150.

    Of course, none of this is any use unless you happen to like the stuff.

    Jerez is pleasant, if rather obviously run down these days. Worth a stop on the way from Seville to Cadiz.
    You're right of course. There's become almost no choice or variation. I think the same is true of port, and Madeira has been astonishingly out of fashion for decades.

    It's a dark thing though. If you want to buy good Port or Madeira it'll cost you as many arms and legs as you have. I don't know who's buying it.
    Several Cambridge colleges sold off large amounts of Vintage Port in the early 90s when it fell out of fashion, and had to buy back in at higher prices ten years later.

    There are some delightful LBVs at £15-£20 though. Niepoort for one.

    Having recommended Jerez earlier, I must speak up for Porto. Delightful place to go, sensible climate, good hotels and restaurants these days too. Good for all budgets. Drink Vintage Port by the glass in the Taylor's English Rose Garden overlooking the river. Then take the train along the valley inland to the vineyards.
    I heard tell of a college where fellows are required to reimburse the cost of any vintage port they consume. It recently went up from 6/- to 7/6 a bottle.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    What is Suella actually planning to do about “British Pakistani” grooming gangs?

    We need a word for a dog whistle that everyone can totally hear.

    Braverman is a Trump understudy, alright.
    What exactly is Trumpian about it?
    Bad Facts
    Ok, I'm going to have to ask: by 'Bad Facts' do you mean 'facts we don't want to hear' or 'falsehoods'. If the latter, Bad Facts is poor description - they are not facts at all but lies.
    When I did a course on modern sensitivities there was a whole section on Facts that are true, but mustn’t be used because they are Bad.

    Ethnic patterns in crime was one of them.
    1. What course was that?

    2. I presume to are positing that Trump is willing to state 'Bad Facts'; unfortunately, he's more likely to spout non-facts.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    edited April 2023
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Ok sorry going to be mr angry here. Yes a the majority of child sexual abuse happens in the family and friends arena. The minority in the grooming gang arena

    However the difference is the problem in the family arena is getting it reported and when it is the authorities deal with it.

    In the grooming gang area it is reported and the authorities tend to ignore it because of cultural issues

    Ok Mr Angry, I am looking forward to your evidence to support that assertion.
    All the reports on rotherham support that view
    They support the view that 'problems in the family arena get reported'?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,683

    Foxy said:

    I love listicles so I just asked ChatGPT to give me the 100 most important people of the 20th century.

    The response is quite eccentric. Includes Sting, Greta Thunberg, and Isaac Bashevis Singer.

    Great is a bit of an odd one, as she was born in the 21st Century.
    That’s what I told ChatGPT, to which it conceded it was an error.

    But how precisely do you make such a dumb error?

    My faith is flagging.
    ChatGPT is a bullshitter. The Boris Johnson of the IT world that suckered the gullible.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587

    carnforth said:

    Omnium said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Seeing as we are talking about our favourite drinks, can I just recommend the Marks and Spencer own brand (but actually Lustau: a great sherrymaker) Palo Cortado sherry

    £8 a half bottle. It is totally superb. Rich yet dry, aromatic and intense, delicate and succulent

    For comparison the only-slightly-better Lustau 30 year old VROS Palo Cortado costs £50 for a pint-bottle

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lustau-Year-Vors-Oloroso-Sherry/dp/B00Z6BU7BK

    Sherry has been the biggest bargain in the Wine world since it became unfashionable in the US and UK in about 1990. It is also largely unfashionable in Spain, drunk little outside its area of production.

    A white burgundy or claret of the same general quality as a £30 sherry would be £150.

    Of course, none of this is any use unless you happen to like the stuff.

    Jerez is pleasant, if rather obviously run down these days. Worth a stop on the way from Seville to Cadiz.
    You're right of course. There's become almost no choice or variation. I think the same is true of port, and Madeira has been astonishingly out of fashion for decades.

    It's a dark thing though. If you want to buy good Port or Madeira it'll cost you as many arms and legs as you have. I don't know who's buying it.
    Several Cambridge colleges sold off large amounts of Vintage Port in the early 90s when it fell out of fashion, and had to buy back in at higher prices ten years later.

    There are some delightful LBVs at £15-£20 though. Niepoort for one.

    Having recommended Jerez earlier, I must speak up for Porto. Delightful place to go, sensible climate, good hotels and restaurants these days too. Good for all budgets. Drink Vintage Port by the glass in the Taylor's English Rose Garden overlooking the river. Then take the train along the valley inland to the vineyards.
    I heard tell of a college where fellows are required to reimburse the cost of any vintage port they consume. It recently went up from 6/- to 7/6 a bottle.
    Some colleges used to sell wine to fellows and students at cost plus inflation plus VAT (i.e ignoring the value of having cellared it). Charity commission put paid to that in the mid 2000s. Market value or else.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Ok sorry going to be mr angry here. Yes a the majority of child sexual abuse happens in the family and friends arena. The minority in the grooming gang arena

    However the difference is the problem in the family arena is getting it reported and when it is the authorities deal with it.

    In the grooming gang area it is reported and the authorities tend to ignore it because of cultural issues

    Ok Mr Angry, I am looking forward to your evidence to support that assertion.
    All the reports on rotherham support that view
    The support the view that 'problems in the family arena get reported'?
    I didnt say they get reported are you deficient reading. I said the problem in the family arena is it is hard to get them reported but at least when they are the authorities take them seriously.

    In the grooming gang arena the authorities seem more keen to cover them up as highlighted in the rotherham reports.

    Two absolutely different problems the first the authorities often don't know but when they do they take action

    the second the authorities absolutely do know but turn a blind eye
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Ok sorry going to be mr angry here. Yes a the majority of child sexual abuse happens in the family and friends arena. The minority in the grooming gang arena

    However the difference is the problem in the family arena is getting it reported and when it is the authorities deal with it.

    In the grooming gang area it is reported and the authorities tend to ignore it because of cultural issues

    Ok Mr Angry, I am looking forward to your evidence to support that assertion.
    All the reports on rotherham support that view
    The support the view that 'problems in the family arena get reported'?
    The difference being in the way authorities have dealt with the two cases.

    Many family cases from decades ago have been prosecuted, with no physical evidence other than the statements of the children involved.

    Contrast with the attitude of authorities noted in the Rotherham report, who appeared to be much more worried about commmunity relations and potential civil disorder, than seeing rapists bought to justice.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,996

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    They’re definitely more Liverpool than Manchester. As you say, more melodic. Lancashire plain.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,683

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    ..

    Obviously the Isle of Wight, rather than Scotland, because there’s a ferry working.
    I recall a trip to Morocco. We were on a ferry from Algeciras to Tangier. My friend, who knew little of ships, commented on the rust. I told him to go below, and get 4 double gin and tonics. He asked where I would be.

    “Right here, sitting on the locker marker “lifebelts”, right next to the lifeboat, on the open deck….”
    I always notice when I get on a plane, that I’m the only person consciously counting seat backs in front and behind between me and the exit, looking at the card during the briefing, and actually checking under my seat for the life vest! I know I’ll be at the exit correctly dressed, carrying nothing but my wallet and passport.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,885
    dixiedean said:

    40.1% counted:

    NCP: 20.8%
    SDP: 20.7%
    Finns: 18.6%
    Centre: 12.3%
    Left: 8%
    Green: 7.3%
    CD: 4.4%
    SPP: 3.8%
    Move: 2%
    Others: 1.9%

    In the last election Finns Party rose two points when the election day votes were counted, this could be very close.

    For those not familiar.
    NCP = Mainstream Conservatives.
    SDP = Social Democrats of PM Marin.
    Finns = Populist Right.
    Centre = As it says on the tin. Rural.
    Left = You can guess.
    Green = Ditto.
    CD = Christian Democrats.
    SPP = Swedish speakers.
    Move = Economic liberals.

    SDP, Green, Left, Centre and Swedes are the incumbent government coalition.
    It looks like they'll get a majority of votes.
    However. Largest Party gets first dibs.
    Complicated by the fact that this is D'Hondt across 13 constituencies.
    So most votes doesn't necessarily equal most seats. Especially when this close.
    Presumably the likely alternative grouping is National Coalition, Finns and Centre which governed from 2015-19 despite the 2017 crisis.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,996

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    Yes. I’m on top of Primrose Hill and it’s definitely spring. The sun has suddenly emerged. And the people. The soft wind is cold yet somehow unthreatening. It speaks in kindly words of warmth ahead



    It was about this time in Covid Year One that we started a wonderful run of weather.
    I was getting strong lockdown 1 vibes earlier. The good bits of lockdown 1. Not the 90% that was shitty.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    There wasn't much coverage of the Rotherham scandal here in the US, so I hope you will excuse me for asking two possibly naive questions:

    Were most of the victimized girls from classes below C2? (I hope I phrased that right; your alphabetical class descriptions aren't used here.)

    Were most of the victimized girls from fatherless families? (I suspect that would be true of Epstein's victims, but have seen no evidence on the question.)
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
  • TresTres Posts: 2,701

    There wasn't much coverage of the Rotherham scandal here in the US, so I hope you will excuse me for asking two possibly naive questions:

    Were most of the victimized girls from classes below C2? (I hope I phrased that right; your alphabetical class descriptions aren't used here.)

    Were most of the victimized girls from fatherless families? (I suspect that would be true of Epstein's victims, but have seen no evidence on the question.)

    They were typically children (boys and girls) living in care homes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,341
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I love listicles so I just asked ChatGPT to give me the 100 most important people of the 20th century.

    The response is quite eccentric. Includes Sting, Greta Thunberg, and Isaac Bashevis Singer.

    Great is a bit of an odd one, as she was born in the 21st Century.
    That’s what I told ChatGPT, to which it conceded it was an error.

    But how precisely do you make such a dumb error?

    My faith is flagging.
    ChatGPT is a bullshitter. The Boris Johnson of the IT world that suckered the gullible.
    A really silly remark. You just don't understand
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,996
    edited April 2023
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Bad stuff happened in the past.

    But for now, on this spring evening, as lengthening shadows cross the newly mowed back garden, enjoy a bit of The Lathums’ second album “From Nothing to a Little Bit More” on Spotify or Apple Music and reconnect with the joy of jingling guitars and soulful young Lancastrian voices with just a hint of yodel.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586

    There wasn't much coverage of the Rotherham scandal here in the US, so I hope you will excuse me for asking two possibly naive questions:

    Were most of the victimized girls from classes below C2? (I hope I phrased that right; your alphabetical class descriptions aren't used here.)

    Were most of the victimized girls from fatherless families? (I suspect that would be true of Epstein's victims, but have seen no evidence on the question.)

    Mostly yes. A lot of the girls were in what’s euphemistically called “care” (of the state).
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    BlancheLivermore - If you are looking for another walk to do, you might consider following in Seraphine Warren's footsteps. (She deserves support.)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,683
    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
    British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.

    https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/cases-and-testimonials/cases/the-mau-mau-claims/
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872
    Sandpit said:

    There wasn't much coverage of the Rotherham scandal here in the US, so I hope you will excuse me for asking two possibly naive questions:

    Were most of the victimized girls from classes below C2? (I hope I phrased that right; your alphabetical class descriptions aren't used here.)

    Were most of the victimized girls from fatherless families? (I suspect that would be true of Epstein's victims, but have seen no evidence on the question.)

    Mostly yes. A lot of the girls were in what’s euphemistically called “care” (of the state).
    And police ignoring it because a 13 year old claimed to have consented etc
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872
    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
    British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.

    https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/cases-and-testimonials/cases/the-mau-mau-claims/
    Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparents were arseholes
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,904
    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    There wasn't much coverage of the Rotherham scandal here in the US, so I hope you will excuse me for asking two possibly naive questions:

    Were most of the victimized girls from classes below C2? (I hope I phrased that right; your alphabetical class descriptions aren't used here.)

    Were most of the victimized girls from fatherless families? (I suspect that would be true of Epstein's victims, but have seen no evidence on the question.)

    Mostly yes. A lot of the girls were in what’s euphemistically called “care” (of the state).
    And police ignoring it because a 13 year old claimed to have consented etc
    Yes, but not because it had not been reported to them.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,250

    BlancheLivermore - If you are looking for another walk to do, you might consider following in Seraphine Warren's footsteps. (She deserves support.)

    Also, given Blanche's vocation, the Simon Evans Way:

    https://www.cmfa.co.uk/simonevansway

    16 miles in the footsteps of a Welsh postie.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993

    dixiedean said:

    Is it only 80 miles from Glasgow to Dundee?
    If asked I'd have guessed much further.

    Why isn’t Glasgow closer to Dundee after 16 years of SNP misrule?
    Humza must explain.
    In some respects they are close:

    Dundee City had the highest age-standardised drug misuse death rate of all local authority areas (45.2 per 100,000 population for the 5-year period 2017-2021), followed by Glasgow City (44.4)

    https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files/statistics/drug-related-deaths/21/drug-related-deaths-21-report.pdf

    And you’re right, Humza must explain.
    Presumably only to the voters of Scotland rather than the residents of distant tax havens?
    Oh do keep up - I’ve been living in the U.K. for 18 months.

    Is that the best you’ve got?
    18 months and you haven’t bought a map yet?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872
    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
    British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.

    https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/cases-and-testimonials/cases/the-mau-mau-claims/
    Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparen

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    There wasn't much coverage of the Rotherham scandal here in the US, so I hope you will excuse me for asking two possibly naive questions:

    Were most of the victimized girls from classes below C2? (I hope I phrased that right; your alphabetical class descriptions aren't used here.)

    Were most of the victimized girls from fatherless families? (I suspect that would be true of Epstein's victims, but have seen no evidence on the question.)

    Mostly yes. A lot of the girls were in what’s euphemistically called “care” (of the state).
    And police ignoring it because a 13 year old claimed to have consented etc
    Yes, but not because it had not been reported to them.
    The one I am thinking of that was mentioned in the reports was the police turning up and finding a 13 year old in the prescence of several men in their 20's and 30's and leaving her there because she had consented. They were aware they just didn't care because she was a care home girl, my suspicion also is there were kickbacks happening at some level to ignore it
  • BlancheLivermore - If you are looking for another walk to do, you might consider following in Seraphine Warren's footsteps. (She deserves support.)

    That does sound amazing; "across Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, West Virginia, Virginia and, finally, to Washington"

    But I can only afford local trips
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    There was no colour bar so far as i am aware in NZ. Hardly perfect of course, but very different experience even from Australia.
  • Who could have predicted this?

    Wait, plenty of us did.

    Voters losing confidence in Rishi Sunak’s ability to stop small boats

    Britons have less confidence in Rishi Sunak stopping small boats than they did a month ago, despite a blizzard of government announcements about the issue.

    In March the government unveiled a five-point plan to tackle illegal immigration across the Channel, as well as proposals to move migrants out of hotels and into military bases and barges. Suella Braverman, the home secretary, visited Rwanda to close loopholes in the deportation deal.

    The flurry of activity has buoyed Conservative MPs, some of whom believe the focus on the issue will help Sunak to close the gap with Labour.

    But new polling by YouGov for The Times suggests that the public’s confidence in Sunak’s ability to deliver on the issue has waned rather than strengthened in recent weeks.

    On March 8, the day after Sunak announced a host of legislative measures to stop boat crossings, 26 per cent of the public thought it was likely he would be able to deliver. In contrast, 59 per cent thought it was unlikely.

    In a new poll conducted last Wednesday and Thursday, only 21 per cent thought Sunak was likely to be able to stop the boats. Some 63 per cent thought he was unlikely to be able to do so. Among those who voted Conservative at the last election, 32 per cent thought the prime minister was likely to be able to achieve his goal and 60 per cent thought it was unlikely.

    There is also scepticism that some of the measures announced by the government will ever happen. Thirty per cent thought that an end to the practice of accommodating asylum seekers in hotels probably would happen, while 52 per cent thought it probably would not. Only 24 per cent believed that moving asylum seekers into barges or disused cruise ships probably would happen, while 54 per cent thought it probably would not.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/voters-losing-confidence-in-rishi-sunaks-ability-to-stop-small-boats-8nmv7whnh
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    On topic - In USA, where being a locally registered voter is almost always a legal requirement to run for AND serve in elected office (US Representative being exception, only required to be a resident of the state NOT district) challenging candidates based on non-residency is MUCH more common than in UK.

    Including both legal challenges AND campaign attacks.

    Generally speaking, the former are more politically & electorally successful than the latter.

    > > For example, when Mitt Romney ran as Republican for governor of Massachusetts (forget the year) his residency was challenged by Mass state Democratic Party, on grounds that he'd applied for a tax break on his Utah ski chalet as a resident of THAT great state (Beehive versus Bay). Local courts ruled this was a technicality, give that MR had been a Mass resident, voter, taxpayer for many years.

    And what about the voters? Well, in general (and in the general) they believed that Mitt was a bona fide Mass resident. Also, the citizens of "Taxachusetts" did NOT hold it against him that he (or his accountant) asked for a break on his (Utah) property taxes.

    Instead, most voters thought the REAL culprit, was the Mass Democratic Party, or rather the hacks and wise-guys running the bowels of the party machinery.

    > > On other hand, last year in Oregon a NYT columnist (whose name escapes me) born and raised in the state, with current, long-standing ties including owning property, filed for governor for 2022 Democratic Primary, but was ruled ineligible by OR Secretary of State (also a Democrat) on grounds that he was registered to vote, and had voted, in 2020 in New York State. He appealed, but state supreme court upheld SOS ruling, and he was NOT on the primary ballot.

    Which is also interesting in light of fact that, thanks to a Democratic legislator running as an independent, the Democrat who ended up with nomination, won a pretty narrow victory in the 2022 general election. My own guess is that the NYT guy may have done a bit LESS well, based on his evident lack of political horse sense. Seeing as how he'd evidently been thinking of running for office back in Oregon for some time. So registering and voting in New York Freaking State was totally unforced - and fatal - own goal.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,341

    There wasn't much coverage of the Rotherham scandal here in the US, so I hope you will excuse me for asking two possibly naive questions:

    Were most of the victimized girls from classes below C2? (I hope I phrased that right; your alphabetical class descriptions aren't used here.)

    Were most of the victimized girls from fatherless families? (I suspect that would be true of Epstein's victims, but have seen no evidence on the question.)

    What you need to know is the SCALE

    There were certainly TENS OF THOUSANDS OF VICTIMS. Tens of thousands of poor white girls (and boys) raped, abused, tortured and even sometimes killed by (mainly) British Pakistani Muslim gangs

    Some estimates go over 100,000

    At least one person has estimated there might be a MILLION victims, if you add it all together, over the years. Who is that person? The Labour MP for Rotherham, Sarah Champion, who was shunned by her own party for making this claim, even though she is the MP for one of the cities worst afflicted, and should know more than most

    "Child sex abuse gangs could have assaulted ONE MILLION youngsters in the UK

    Rotherham’s Labour MP Sarah Champion describes it as a “national disaster” and is demanding a taskforce to fight the “horror""

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/child-sex-abuse-gangs-could-5114029

    Imagine that happening in any other country on earth. A million girls raped and abused by racist grooming gangs, mainly Muslim

    There would be civil strife

    This, I believe, is why the UK Establishment desperately tries to keep it all quiet. They fear that if Britons ever actually addressed the scale of what happened, and is STILL HAPPENING, there would be blood in the streets
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    edited April 2023

    Who could have predicted this?

    Wait, plenty of us did.

    Voters losing confidence in Rishi Sunak’s ability to stop small boats

    Britons have less confidence in Rishi Sunak stopping small boats than they did a month ago, despite a blizzard of government announcements about the issue.

    In March the government unveiled a five-point plan to tackle illegal immigration across the Channel, as well as proposals to move migrants out of hotels and into military bases and barges. Suella Braverman, the home secretary, visited Rwanda to close loopholes in the deportation deal.

    The flurry of activity has buoyed Conservative MPs, some of whom believe the focus on the issue will help Sunak to close the gap with Labour.

    But new polling by YouGov for The Times suggests that the public’s confidence in Sunak’s ability to deliver on the issue has waned rather than strengthened in recent weeks.

    On March 8, the day after Sunak announced a host of legislative measures to stop boat crossings, 26 per cent of the public thought it was likely he would be able to deliver. In contrast, 59 per cent thought it was unlikely.

    In a new poll conducted last Wednesday and Thursday, only 21 per cent thought Sunak was likely to be able to stop the boats. Some 63 per cent thought he was unlikely to be able to do so. Among those who voted Conservative at the last election, 32 per cent thought the prime minister was likely to be able to achieve his goal and 60 per cent thought it was unlikely.

    There is also scepticism that some of the measures announced by the government will ever happen. Thirty per cent thought that an end to the practice of accommodating asylum seekers in hotels probably would happen, while 52 per cent thought it probably would not. Only 24 per cent believed that moving asylum seekers into barges or disused cruise ships probably would happen, while 54 per cent thought it probably would not.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/voters-losing-confidence-in-rishi-sunaks-ability-to-stop-small-boats-8nmv7whnh

    Sunak comes across as thinking that discussion of the issue, and passing laws about the issue, are all that are required. He appears not to understand, that the voters expect him to have actually stopped the crossings before the election.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,683

    There was no colour bar so far as i am aware in NZ. Hardly perfect of course, but very different experience even from Australia.

    Yes indeed. Maori had full rights as citizens from the beginning, I believe.

    Australian aborigines only got the right to vote in 1962, and were only counted in the census etc in 1967.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    Yes. I’m on top of Primrose Hill and it’s definitely spring. The sun has suddenly emerged. And the people. The soft wind is cold yet somehow unthreatening. It speaks in kindly words of warmth ahead



    It was about this time in Covid Year One that we started a wonderful run of weather.
    I was getting strong lockdown 1 vibes earlier. The good bits of lockdown 1. Not the 90% that was shitty.
    Probably feels like that because March was so unrelentingly miserable. Well below average sunshine hours for most of the UK and the wettest March in England since 1981 according to the Met Office. I think we have a short run of bright cloudless days and cold nights coming, at least in my corner of the land, but beyond that it looks more changeable.

    I'd love a re-run of the kind of Spring weather we had in 2020 but you should be careful what you wish for. The bigger picture demands more rain, I'm afraid. The last thing we want is to end up with a dry Spring, followed inevitably by a dry Summer dotted about with stupidly, brutally hot days and, therefore, an even worse drought.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,996
    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
    British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.

    https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/cases-and-testimonials/cases/the-mau-mau-claims/
    Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparents were arseholes
    I’m actually with you on this. The sins of the fathers etc. Those born since it happened shouldn’t be held responsible.

    However, the corollary is that Brits should not feel any pride in things our ancestors did that we weren’t involved in. Can’t have it both ways. Pride in the good bits but disowning the bad bits is inconsistent.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    BlancheLivermore - If you are looking for another walk to do, you might consider following in Seraphine Warren's footsteps. (She deserves support.)

    That does sound amazing; "across Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, West Virginia, Virginia and, finally, to Washington"

    But I can only afford local trips
    Years ago, walked from Russell Square to Victoria Park.

    Saw plenty of local wildlife along the way!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872
    edited April 2023
    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
    British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.

    https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/cases-and-testimonials/cases/the-mau-mau-claims/
    Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparen
    Leon said:

    There wasn't much coverage of the Rotherham scandal here in the US, so I hope you will excuse me for asking two possibly naive questions:

    Were most of the victimized girls from classes below C2? (I hope I phrased that right; your alphabetical class descriptions aren't used here.)

    Were most of the victimized girls from fatherless families? (I suspect that would be true of Epstein's victims, but have seen no evidence on the question.)

    What you need to know is the SCALE

    There were certainly TENS OF THOUSANDS OF VICTIMS. Tens of thousands of poor white girls (and boys) raped, abused, tortured and even sometimes killed by (mainly) British Pakistani Muslim gangs

    Some estimates go over 100,000

    At least one person has estimated there might be a MILLION victims, if you add it all together, over the years. Who is that person? The Labour MP for Rotherham, Sarah Champion, who was shunned by her own party for making this claim, even though she is the MP for one of the cities worst afflicted, and should know more than most

    "Child sex abuse gangs could have assaulted ONE MILLION youngsters in the UK

    Rotherham’s Labour MP Sarah Champion describes it as a “national disaster” and is demanding a taskforce to fight the “horror""

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/child-sex-abuse-gangs-could-5114029

    Imagine that happening in any other country on earth. A million girls raped and abused by racist grooming gangs, mainly Muslim

    There would be civil strife

    This, I believe, is why the UK Establishment desperately tries to keep it all quiet. They fear that if Britons ever actually addressed the scale of what happened, and is STILL HAPPENING, there would be blood in the streets
    It should be noted though that it was still a small minority of pakistani males doing this. The vast majority would see it as just as abhorrent as you or I. Sadly the coverup and face turning actually makes it seem worse now it has been discovered
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373

    Who could have predicted this?

    Wait, plenty of us did.

    Voters losing confidence in Rishi Sunak’s ability to stop small boats

    Britons have less confidence in Rishi Sunak stopping small boats than they did a month ago, despite a blizzard of government announcements about the issue.

    In March the government unveiled a five-point plan to tackle illegal immigration across the Channel, as well as proposals to move migrants out of hotels and into military bases and barges. Suella Braverman, the home secretary, visited Rwanda to close loopholes in the deportation deal.

    The flurry of activity has buoyed Conservative MPs, some of whom believe the focus on the issue will help Sunak to close the gap with Labour.

    But new polling by YouGov for The Times suggests that the public’s confidence in Sunak’s ability to deliver on the issue has waned rather than strengthened in recent weeks.

    On March 8, the day after Sunak announced a host of legislative measures to stop boat crossings, 26 per cent of the public thought it was likely he would be able to deliver. In contrast, 59 per cent thought it was unlikely.

    In a new poll conducted last Wednesday and Thursday, only 21 per cent thought Sunak was likely to be able to stop the boats. Some 63 per cent thought he was unlikely to be able to do so. Among those who voted Conservative at the last election, 32 per cent thought the prime minister was likely to be able to achieve his goal and 60 per cent thought it was unlikely.

    There is also scepticism that some of the measures announced by the government will ever happen. Thirty per cent thought that an end to the practice of accommodating asylum seekers in hotels probably would happen, while 52 per cent thought it probably would not. Only 24 per cent believed that moving asylum seekers into barges or disused cruise ships probably would happen, while 54 per cent thought it probably would not.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/voters-losing-confidence-in-rishi-sunaks-ability-to-stop-small-boats-8nmv7whnh

    Its a stupid hill on which to die for Sunak, particularly with an inept and duplicitous wing(wo)man like Suella on hand.

    Sunak fails, Sunak is ejected. Suella then promises a policy to strafe the inflatable boats mid Channel. Landslide.

  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,885
    Looks as though Revival are the main winners from the Bulgarian election - not surprising given they have elections about as often as the Conservative Party changes leaders.

    I’m sure we’re all following the Andorran election and are ready to discuss the exit poll so off you go….
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I love listicles so I just asked ChatGPT to give me the 100 most important people of the 20th century.

    The response is quite eccentric. Includes Sting, Greta Thunberg, and Isaac Bashevis Singer.

    Great is a bit of an odd one, as she was born in the 21st Century.
    That’s what I told ChatGPT, to which it conceded it was an error.

    But how precisely do you make such a dumb error?

    My faith is flagging.
    ChatGPT is a bullshitter. The Boris Johnson of the IT world that suckered the gullible.
    A really silly remark. You just don't understand
    I think he probably does. Most of the people I hear getting very excited about ChatGPT are generally those with no science or IT training. ChatGPT is an interesting concept, and will get better, but it is massively overhyped.
  • Did everyone see the new rules of twitter?
    https://twitter.com/aakashg0/status/1641976925064245249
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,996
    pigeon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    Yes. I’m on top of Primrose Hill and it’s definitely spring. The sun has suddenly emerged. And the people. The soft wind is cold yet somehow unthreatening. It speaks in kindly words of warmth ahead



    It was about this time in Covid Year One that we started a wonderful run of weather.
    I was getting strong lockdown 1 vibes earlier. The good bits of lockdown 1. Not the 90% that was shitty.
    Probably feels like that because March was so unrelentingly miserable. Well below average sunshine hours for most of the UK and the wettest March in England since 1981 according to the Met Office. I think we have a short run of bright cloudless days and cold nights coming, at least in my corner of the land, but beyond that it looks more changeable.

    I'd love a re-run of the kind of Spring weather we had in 2020 but you should be careful what you wish for. The bigger picture demands more rain, I'm afraid. The last thing we want is to end up with a dry Spring, followed inevitably by a dry Summer dotted about with stupidly, brutally hot days and, therefore, an even worse drought.
    A sunny April will be disastrous for my vineyard, so I know what you mean. Not drought in my case but frost. April sunshine means night radiation frosts, and the buds on some of my early vines - the melon de Bourgogne - are already woolly and close to bursting. Only second year so no crop to worry about but second year foliage growth is important and late frosts knock it back.

    On a related topic given the discussion about favourite drinks I posted my latest blog entry from the vineyard earlier, on Pinot Meunier.

    https://www.littlebursted.com/post/on-pinot-meunier
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,300

    Did everyone see the new rules of twitter?
    https://twitter.com/aakashg0/status/1641976925064245249

    That’s actually the *existing* rules of Twitter - mostly legacy. Most of the code was written long before the take over.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,341
    edited April 2023

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I love listicles so I just asked ChatGPT to give me the 100 most important people of the 20th century.

    The response is quite eccentric. Includes Sting, Greta Thunberg, and Isaac Bashevis Singer.

    Great is a bit of an odd one, as she was born in the 21st Century.
    That’s what I told ChatGPT, to which it conceded it was an error.

    But how precisely do you make such a dumb error?

    My faith is flagging.
    ChatGPT is a bullshitter. The Boris Johnson of the IT world that suckered the gullible.
    A really silly remark. You just don't understand
    I think he probably does. Most of the people I hear getting very excited about ChatGPT are generally those with no science or IT training. ChatGPT is an interesting concept, and will get better, but it is massively overhyped.
    You mean like the guys who wrote this? 15 of the top AI experts in America?

    “Sparks of Artificial General Intelligence: Early experiments with GPT-4”

    By Sébastien Bubeck, Varun Chandrasekaran, Ronen Eldan, Johannes Gehrke, Eric Horvitz, Ece Kamar, Peter Lee, Yin Tat Lee, Yuanzhi Li, Scott Lundberg, Harsha Nori, Hamid Palangi, Marco Tulio Ribeiro, Yi Zhang

    https://arxiv.org/abs/2303.12712

    But yes, a semi retired provincial GP from Leicester knows better



  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,372
    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I assumed it was Liz Truss…
    How many "brothels" are there in London?

    Massage parlours, aye. Houses divided into apartments for, ahem, single ladies in Warren Street or Bayswater or maybe even Shepherd's Market

    Flat sharing Romanian girls in Wood Green. Yup. Saunas? Yup

    But proper rococo-and-champagne, dungeon chamber and pretend railway carriage, chaise-longue, caviar, asparagus-soup and Edwardian kingly three way fellatio love seat brothels??

    None, that I know of
    Railway carriage?

    Railway carriage?!

    I'll accept "sheltered life" and "embittered commuter" as answers, but...

    Railway?
    Carriage?
    Yes

    "Catering to all fetishes, each of the 22 rooms were inspired by a different time and place. A pirate room featured a mechanical boat swing and water jets that sprayed clients and courtesans as they did the dirty. An Orient Express room allowed patrons to live out their fantasies of sex on a train inside a replica of a bouncing carriage with a railway soundtrack."

    https://www.messynessychic.com/2012/12/11/inside-the-paris-brothels-of-the-belle-epoque/

    I once wrote a Gazette article about the great Paris brothels of the Belle Epoque and spent a week doing research in the City of Love. I even tracked down King Edwards's Notorious Three Way love seat - I found the last auctioneer to sell it in the 1990s, to a "private buyer", and he was tempted to introduce me to the owner so I could see it.... but in the end he said No. However when I asked if "the seat is still being used" he smiled and said "Oui, naturellement"

    True story
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    What is Suella actually planning to do about “British Pakistani” grooming gangs?

    We need a word for a dog whistle that everyone can totally hear.

    It will be interesting to see what Labour does on the proposed Bill.

    There is, as you say, the dog whistle about British-Pakistani gangs. How does Labour react to that? Factually - when it comes to grooming gangs as opposed to child abuse in general - the evidence is there. Does Labour accuse the Government of racism? Probably not going to well received in the towns involved. I suspect Labour will make muted criticism but make clear to the British-Pakistani communities (which are key to its vote in many seats eg Batley and Spen) that it will be amended if they win power.

    However, there is another angle here. Where this Bill is really targeted at is Labour's middle class public sector block - the social workers, teachers and those who deal with children in related areas. What it's threatening to do is target directly this very influential part of Labour's voting bloc by threatening them with the sack or prison.

    From a policy standpoint, it's actually good that people who kept silent because they were more concerned about being accused of racism and / or their political views now run personal risk. From a political viewpoint, it could be quite successful.
    Threatening social workers and teachers with the sack or prison?
    Is that the free market response to desperately short staffed professions?
    Still. Anything to get the Tories re-elected is far more important than the welfare of children after all.
    If you deliberately turn your eyes away from a child being abused for whatever reason, then you shouldn't be in the job. I would have thought that would be quite easy to understand.
    It is. And it doesn't happen.
    What happens is stuff is reported endlessly and then there isn't the staffing, funding or will to prioritise anything. Nor even for anyone to read the entirety of CPOMS and join the dots.
    Because everyone's caseloads are way too high.
    I am on CPOMS reporting concerns every single day.
    Does anyone read them? Not until after a catastrophic event.
    Because the government isn't prepared to pay for it.
    It is not a resource issue, it's the fact that managers in Rotherham deliberately ignored, and actually destroyed, evidence so they wouldn't have to deal with the issue. They had the information there, they could have acted on it and they chose not to.

    Did you not read the conclusions of the Rotherham report or have you just chosen to ignore them because it doesn't fit in with your views.

    However, your answer gives a clue as to how Labour (depressingly) will deal with this. There will be some vague generic comments about it being terrible girls being abused before going onto a far more detailed commentary as to how this is a resource issue and it is cruel to target overworked public workers who are just trying to do their best.
    Sorry.
    But your patronising "did you not read the Rotherham report?" has closed down this conversation.
    Yes I have, I've read all of them and far more than just the conclusions. I've been on endless very distressing training days too, and worked with some of the girls and boys involved too. They're all grown adults now because it was quite some time ago.
    Sorry I don't agree with you.
    If you think it's not a resource issue, well you're welcome to donate your expertise at the going rate to sort it all out.
    It is not "quite some time ago"

    It is still happening. There are multiple reports of it

    "Grooming gangs still abusing girls a decade after Rochdale scandal, says whistleblower
    A former detective says the police and authorities are still failing to take the matter seriously and are continuing to let victims down"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/02/11/grooming-gangs-still-abusing-girls-decade-rochdale-scandal-says/#:~:text=Grooming gangs still abusing girls a decade after Rochdale scandal, says whistleblower,-A former detective&text=Child sex abuse perpetrated by,a new documentary has claimed.

    "Children are still being sexually exploited by grooming gangs in all parts of England and Wales in the “most degrading and destructive ways”, a report has found."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/grooming-gangs-child-sex-abuse-b2004963.html


    But you want to wish it all away. As ever. "It's all in the past, let's move on"
    Interesting juxtaposition of enthusing over brothels, which we all know are full of trafficked young girls often of different cultures, whilst condemning Grooming gangs.
    I expect that there was not much trafficking in the high class places. These were well-paid courtesans.

    In general, I think the medieval Church was right to treat prostitution as a necessary evil, and to regulate it.
    Yes, posh people's brothels are obviously fine and dandy places staffed after adverts on LinkedIn and rigorous background checks. Completely different to downmarket ones.
    I think it would be fair to say that cruel exploitation is likely to be at the rougher end of the market.
  • 60% counted, SDP, NCP, Finns all on 44 seats
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,996

    60% counted, SDP, NCP, Finns all on 44 seats

    Finns going to win then, by the look of things.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
    British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.

    https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/cases-and-testimonials/cases/the-mau-mau-claims/
    Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparents were arseholes
    I’m actually with you on this. The sins of the fathers etc. Those born since it happened shouldn’t be held responsible.

    However, the corollary is that Brits should not feel any pride in things our ancestors did that we weren’t involved in. Can’t have it both ways. Pride in the good bits but disowning the bad bits is inconsistent.
    More weight should be given, particularly in the education system, to social history alongside the traditional structure of kings and battles. Slavery is a big part of the picture within that: most medieval people were exploited as slaves or something very close to it in this country; conditions for the poor remained pretty wretched even after feudal serfdom had become a thing of the distant part; and then, of course, there was exploitation of bonded labour (primarily Africans, but also of Europeans as transported prisoners or through the Barbary slave trade,) for several hundred years during the colonial period. Most people are largely clueless about most of this stuff and it would do no harm at all for them to learn a bit more.

    The real difficulties arise when someone decides to raise the subject of reparations. Telling, say, a single Mum in Carlisle, who's trying to raise a couple of kiddies on a minimum wage job and desultory top-up benefits, that some of her taxes now have to go on paying compensation to people in Dominica - because their ancestors were slaves two centuries ago and that's why she is now "rich" - is unlikely to go down well.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,683
    Sandpit said:

    Who could have predicted this?

    Wait, plenty of us did.

    Voters losing confidence in Rishi Sunak’s ability to stop small boats

    Britons have less confidence in Rishi Sunak stopping small boats than they did a month ago, despite a blizzard of government announcements about the issue.

    In March the government unveiled a five-point plan to tackle illegal immigration across the Channel, as well as proposals to move migrants out of hotels and into military bases and barges. Suella Braverman, the home secretary, visited Rwanda to close loopholes in the deportation deal.

    The flurry of activity has buoyed Conservative MPs, some of whom believe the focus on the issue will help Sunak to close the gap with Labour.

    But new polling by YouGov for The Times suggests that the public’s confidence in Sunak’s ability to deliver on the issue has waned rather than strengthened in recent weeks.

    On March 8, the day after Sunak announced a host of legislative measures to stop boat crossings, 26 per cent of the public thought it was likely he would be able to deliver. In contrast, 59 per cent thought it was unlikely.

    In a new poll conducted last Wednesday and Thursday, only 21 per cent thought Sunak was likely to be able to stop the boats. Some 63 per cent thought he was unlikely to be able to do so. Among those who voted Conservative at the last election, 32 per cent thought the prime minister was likely to be able to achieve his goal and 60 per cent thought it was unlikely.

    There is also scepticism that some of the measures announced by the government will ever happen. Thirty per cent thought that an end to the practice of accommodating asylum seekers in hotels probably would happen, while 52 per cent thought it probably would not. Only 24 per cent believed that moving asylum seekers into barges or disused cruise ships probably would happen, while 54 per cent thought it probably would not.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/voters-losing-confidence-in-rishi-sunaks-ability-to-stop-small-boats-8nmv7whnh

    Sunak comes across, as thinking that talking about the issue, and passing laws about the issue, are all that are required. He appears not to understand, that the voters expect him to have actually stopped the crossings before the election.
    110 arrivals last week via small boats. Been a bit rough most days.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,372
    edited April 2023
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    The notion that somehow the UK’s involvement in the slave trade is a terrible secret, that has only recently come to light, thanks to fearless woke journalists, is an absurdity. I think I was 9 when I learned of the Triangular trade.

    As to the existence of whites-only clubs, well, no shit Sherlock. Finchley Golf Club excluded Jews in the 1950’s. That’s not the same as Jim Crow, legislative racial oppression organised from the top down.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Who could have predicted this?

    Wait, plenty of us did.

    Voters losing confidence in Rishi Sunak’s ability to stop small boats

    Britons have less confidence in Rishi Sunak stopping small boats than they did a month ago, despite a blizzard of government announcements about the issue.

    In March the government unveiled a five-point plan to tackle illegal immigration across the Channel, as well as proposals to move migrants out of hotels and into military bases and barges. Suella Braverman, the home secretary, visited Rwanda to close loopholes in the deportation deal.

    The flurry of activity has buoyed Conservative MPs, some of whom believe the focus on the issue will help Sunak to close the gap with Labour.

    But new polling by YouGov for The Times suggests that the public’s confidence in Sunak’s ability to deliver on the issue has waned rather than strengthened in recent weeks.

    On March 8, the day after Sunak announced a host of legislative measures to stop boat crossings, 26 per cent of the public thought it was likely he would be able to deliver. In contrast, 59 per cent thought it was unlikely.

    In a new poll conducted last Wednesday and Thursday, only 21 per cent thought Sunak was likely to be able to stop the boats. Some 63 per cent thought he was unlikely to be able to do so. Among those who voted Conservative at the last election, 32 per cent thought the prime minister was likely to be able to achieve his goal and 60 per cent thought it was unlikely.

    There is also scepticism that some of the measures announced by the government will ever happen. Thirty per cent thought that an end to the practice of accommodating asylum seekers in hotels probably would happen, while 52 per cent thought it probably would not. Only 24 per cent believed that moving asylum seekers into barges or disused cruise ships probably would happen, while 54 per cent thought it probably would not.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/voters-losing-confidence-in-rishi-sunaks-ability-to-stop-small-boats-8nmv7whnh

    Sunak comes across, as thinking that talking about the issue, and passing laws about the issue, are all that are required. He appears not to understand, that the voters expect him to have actually stopped the crossings before the election.
    110 arrivals last week via small boats. Been a bit rough most days.

    So what the PM needs, is a rough sea generator to put off the gangs.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872
    edited April 2023
    pigeon said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
    British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.

    https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/cases-and-testimonials/cases/the-mau-mau-claims/
    Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparents were arseholes
    I’m actually with you on this. The sins of the fathers etc. Those born since it happened shouldn’t be held responsible.

    However, the corollary is that Brits should not feel any pride in things our ancestors did that we weren’t involved in. Can’t have it both ways. Pride in the good bits but disowning the bad bits is inconsistent.
    More weight should be given, particularly in the education system, to social history alongside the traditional structure of kings and battles. Slavery is a big part of the picture within that: most medieval people were exploited as slaves or something very close to it in this country; conditions for the poor remained pretty wretched even after feudal serfdom had become a thing of the distant part; and then, of course, there was exploitation of bonded labour (primarily Africans, but also of Europeans as transported prisoners or through the Barbary slave trade,) for several hundred years during the colonial period. Most people are largely clueless about most of this stuff and it would do no harm at all for them to learn a bit more.

    The real difficulties arise when someone decides to raise the subject of reparations. Telling, say, a single Mum in Carlisle, who's trying to raise a couple of kiddies on a minimum wage job and desultory top-up benefits, that some of her taxes now have to go on paying compensation to people in Dominica - because their ancestors were slaves two centuries ago and that's why she is now "rich" - is unlikely to go down well.
    Look we were not unique....the conditions for the poor was much the same in all countries whether european, asian, african whatever. All european countries had slavery in the past, likewise african, likewise asian and american. Barbary pirates preyed for example on the south west of england....do they owe the cornish and devonian reparations....never see people arguing that...its always the uk and usa that owe reparations, not belgium, not spain, not portugal, not germany.....just the usa and uk. Those people arguing we are uniquely responsible somehow for practises that just about everyone had in their past can shove their heads up their asses and drown on their own diahorhea
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,372
    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
    British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.

    https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/cases-and-testimonials/cases/the-mau-mau-claims/
    The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,683
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Who could have predicted this?

    Wait, plenty of us did.

    Voters losing confidence in Rishi Sunak’s ability to stop small boats

    Britons have less confidence in Rishi Sunak stopping small boats than they did a month ago, despite a blizzard of government announcements about the issue.

    In March the government unveiled a five-point plan to tackle illegal immigration across the Channel, as well as proposals to move migrants out of hotels and into military bases and barges. Suella Braverman, the home secretary, visited Rwanda to close loopholes in the deportation deal.

    The flurry of activity has buoyed Conservative MPs, some of whom believe the focus on the issue will help Sunak to close the gap with Labour.

    But new polling by YouGov for The Times suggests that the public’s confidence in Sunak’s ability to deliver on the issue has waned rather than strengthened in recent weeks.

    On March 8, the day after Sunak announced a host of legislative measures to stop boat crossings, 26 per cent of the public thought it was likely he would be able to deliver. In contrast, 59 per cent thought it was unlikely.

    In a new poll conducted last Wednesday and Thursday, only 21 per cent thought Sunak was likely to be able to stop the boats. Some 63 per cent thought he was unlikely to be able to do so. Among those who voted Conservative at the last election, 32 per cent thought the prime minister was likely to be able to achieve his goal and 60 per cent thought it was unlikely.

    There is also scepticism that some of the measures announced by the government will ever happen. Thirty per cent thought that an end to the practice of accommodating asylum seekers in hotels probably would happen, while 52 per cent thought it probably would not. Only 24 per cent believed that moving asylum seekers into barges or disused cruise ships probably would happen, while 54 per cent thought it probably would not.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/voters-losing-confidence-in-rishi-sunaks-ability-to-stop-small-boats-8nmv7whnh

    Sunak comes across, as thinking that talking about the issue, and passing laws about the issue, are all that are required. He appears not to understand, that the voters expect him to have actually stopped the crossings before the election.
    110 arrivals last week via small boats. Been a bit rough most days.

    So what the PM needs, is a rough sea generator to put off the gangs.
    Priti Patel considered that a few years back.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/english-channel-crossings-wave-machine-island-b1765077.html

  • TimS said:

    60% counted, SDP, NCP, Finns all on 44 seats

    Finns going to win then, by the look of things.
    Yes quite possibly - vote scores are 20.2 19.9 19.8 SDP NCP Finns.

    So could be a Finns led govt with NCP and Purra becomes the EU's 2nd populist right leader after Meloni.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,408

    60% counted, SDP, NCP, Finns all on 44 seats

    62.7% now.
    NCP Finns on 44. SDP on 43.

    https://tulospalvelu.vaalit.fi/EKV-2023/en/lasktila.html
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,341

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I love listicles so I just asked ChatGPT to give me the 100 most important people of the 20th century.

    The response is quite eccentric. Includes Sting, Greta Thunberg, and Isaac Bashevis Singer.

    Great is a bit of an odd one, as she was born in the 21st Century.
    That’s what I told ChatGPT, to which it conceded it was an error.

    But how precisely do you make such a dumb error?

    My faith is flagging.
    ChatGPT is a bullshitter. The Boris Johnson of the IT world that suckered the gullible.
    A really silly remark. You just don't understand
    I think he probably does. Most of the people I hear getting very excited about ChatGPT are generally those with no science or IT training. ChatGPT is an interesting concept, and will get better, but it is massively overhyped.
    From that paper, the most authoritative yet on the abilities of GPT4:

    "We demonstrate that, beyond its mastery of language, GPT-4 can solve novel and difficult tasks that span mathematics, coding, vision, medicine, law, psychology and more, without needing any special prompting. Moreover, in all of these tasks, GPT-4's performance is strikingly close to human-level performance, and often vastly surpasses prior models such as ChatGPT. Given the breadth and depth of GPT-4's capabilities, we believe that it could reasonably be viewed as an early (yet still incomplete) version of an artificial general intelligence (AGI) system."

    An epochal moment in the history of humanity, if it is true. And even if it is not true, the fact that 15 of the best experts in the field - globally - can reach this conclusion is itself startling and remarkable. It means we are close

    But no, @Nigel_Foremain an anonymous man from Fucknows and his idiot retired friend @foxy who lives in Leicester and knows about lawnmowers says "Most of the people I hear getting very excited about ChatGPT are generally those with no science or IT training"
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I love listicles so I just asked ChatGPT to give me the 100 most important people of the 20th century.

    The response is quite eccentric. Includes Sting, Greta Thunberg, and Isaac Bashevis Singer.

    Great is a bit of an odd one, as she was born in the 21st Century.
    That’s what I told ChatGPT, to which it conceded it was an error.

    But how precisely do you make such a dumb error?

    My faith is flagging.
    ChatGPT is a bullshitter. The Boris Johnson of the IT world that suckered the gullible.
    A really silly remark. You just don't understand
    I think he probably does. Most of the people I hear getting very excited about ChatGPT are generally those with no science or IT training. ChatGPT is an interesting concept, and will get better, but it is massively overhyped.
    From that paper, the most authoritative yet on the abilities of GPT4:

    "We demonstrate that, beyond its mastery of language, GPT-4 can solve novel and difficult tasks that span mathematics, coding, vision, medicine, law, psychology and more, without needing any special prompting. Moreover, in all of these tasks, GPT-4's performance is strikingly close to human-level performance, and often vastly surpasses prior models such as ChatGPT. Given the breadth and depth of GPT-4's capabilities, we believe that it could reasonably be viewed as an early (yet still incomplete) version of an artificial general intelligence (AGI) system."

    An epochal moment in the history of humanity, if it is true. And even if it is not true, the fact that 15 of the best experts in the field - globally - can reach this conclusion is itself startling and remarkable. It means we are close

    But no, @Nigel_Foremain an anonymous man from Fucknows and his idiot retired friend @foxy who lives in Leicester and knows about lawnmowers says "Most of the people I hear getting very excited about ChatGPT are generally those with no science or IT training"
    Replace Chat GPT-4 with What.Three.Words and you spammed PB with this last year.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,978
    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
    British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.

    https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/cases-and-testimonials/cases/the-mau-mau-claims/
    The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
    Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,408

    TimS said:

    60% counted, SDP, NCP, Finns all on 44 seats

    Finns going to win then, by the look of things.
    Yes quite possibly - vote scores are 20.2 19.9 19.8 SDP NCP Finns.

    So could be a Finns led govt with NCP and Purra becomes the EU's 2nd populist right leader after Meloni.
    Orban? Polish government?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,042
    dixiedean said:

    60% counted, SDP, NCP, Finns all on 44 seats

    62.7% now.
    NCP Finns on 44. SDP on 43.

    https://tulospalvelu.vaalit.fi/EKV-2023/en/lasktila.html
    Looks like the Centre Party will hold the balance of power between the left and right as to who forms the next Finnish government
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I love listicles so I just asked ChatGPT to give me the 100 most important people of the 20th century.

    The response is quite eccentric. Includes Sting, Greta Thunberg, and Isaac Bashevis Singer.

    Great is a bit of an odd one, as she was born in the 21st Century.
    That’s what I told ChatGPT, to which it conceded it was an error.

    But how precisely do you make such a dumb error?

    My faith is flagging.
    ChatGPT is a bullshitter. The Boris Johnson of the IT world that suckered the gullible.
    A really silly remark. You just don't understand
    I think he probably does. Most of the people I hear getting very excited about ChatGPT are generally those with no science or IT training. ChatGPT is an interesting concept, and will get better, but it is massively overhyped.
    From that paper, the most authoritative yet on the abilities of GPT4:

    "We demonstrate that, beyond its mastery of language, GPT-4 can solve novel and difficult tasks that span mathematics, coding, vision, medicine, law, psychology and more, without needing any special prompting. Moreover, in all of these tasks, GPT-4's performance is strikingly close to human-level performance, and often vastly surpasses prior models such as ChatGPT. Given the breadth and depth of GPT-4's capabilities, we believe that it could reasonably be viewed as an early (yet still incomplete) version of an artificial general intelligence (AGI) system."

    An epochal moment in the history of humanity, if it is true. And even if it is not true, the fact that 15 of the best experts in the field - globally - can reach this conclusion is itself startling and remarkable. It means we are close

    But no, @Nigel_Foremain an anonymous man from Fucknows and his idiot retired friend @foxy who lives in Leicester and knows about lawnmowers says "Most of the people I hear getting very excited about ChatGPT are generally those with no science or IT training"
    Replace Chat GPT-4 with What.Three.Words and you spammed PB with this last year.
    Replace Chat Gpt-4 and what three words with you, Oxford, France and pineapple pizza and we'd still be on PB
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,372
    edited April 2023
    pigeon said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
    British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.

    https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/cases-and-testimonials/cases/the-mau-mau-claims/
    Really don't give a fuck if its within living memory. Auschwitz is within living memory I do not hold germans born after the war accountable because their grandparents were arseholes
    I’m actually with you on this. The sins of the fathers etc. Those born since it happened shouldn’t be held responsible.

    However, the corollary is that Brits should not feel any pride in things our ancestors did that we weren’t involved in. Can’t have it both ways. Pride in the good bits but disowning the bad bits is inconsistent.
    More weight should be given, particularly in the education system, to social history alongside the traditional structure of kings and battles. Slavery is a big part of the picture within that: most medieval people were exploited as slaves or something very close to it in this country; conditions for the poor remained pretty wretched even after feudal serfdom had become a thing of the distant part; and then, of course, there was exploitation of bonded labour (primarily Africans, but also of Europeans as transported prisoners or through the Barbary slave trade,) for several hundred years during the colonial period. Most people are largely clueless about most of this stuff and it would do no harm at all for them to learn a bit more.

    The real difficulties arise when someone decides to raise the subject of reparations. Telling, say, a single Mum in Carlisle, who's trying to raise a couple of kiddies on a minimum wage job and desultory top-up benefits, that some of her taxes now have to go on paying compensation to people in Dominica - because their ancestors were slaves two centuries ago and that's why she is now "rich" - is unlikely to go down well.
    Most people lived (by our standards) pretty grim lives in the past. Our standard of living is 40 times subsistence. For people alive in the UK in 1800, the standard of living was similar to modern Zimbabwe. So, yes, the world was a dog eat dog place.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,683

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
    British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.

    https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/cases-and-testimonials/cases/the-mau-mau-claims/
    The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
    Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
    Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
  • dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    60% counted, SDP, NCP, Finns all on 44 seats

    Finns going to win then, by the look of things.
    Yes quite possibly - vote scores are 20.2 19.9 19.8 SDP NCP Finns.

    So could be a Finns led govt with NCP and Purra becomes the EU's 2nd populist right leader after Meloni.
    Orban? Polish government?
    Well I was thinking most rightwing mainstream party in a country with a reasonable basis of support - which wasn't the case in Hungary (ie Jobbik).

    So the YLE forecast is NCP 48 Finns 46 SDP 43, so NCP could go either way for coalition partner but will obviously need smaller parties to clear the majority line.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,372

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
    British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.

    https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/cases-and-testimonials/cases/the-mau-mau-claims/
    The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
    Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
    Surprisingly, war is hell. We were pretty brutal towards the Germans, a few years previously.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,042
    edited April 2023
    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
    British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.

    https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/cases-and-testimonials/cases/the-mau-mau-claims/
    The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
    Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
    Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
    The Mau Mau were brutal, on one occasion burning down a village and killing anyone who tried to escape.

    On another attacking a farming family and feeding the pregnant wife her unborn child before killing her too.

    It is not that surprising the British response was also hardline, even if sometimes excessive

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375967/Kenya-Mau-Mau-atrocities-1950s-dossier.html
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,683
    "Anne Longfield, the former children’s commissioner for England, said the large distances involved were a symptom of a broken system. “I have heard so many horrific stories of teenagers who are moved far from home to places where they know nobody,” she said. “They then become easy pickings for those who want to exploit and abuse children.

    “The independent review of children’s social care published a year ago provided a roadmap to fixing this crisis. However, the government’s half-hearted response and its failure to provide the levels of investment required means hundreds of vulnerable children will continue to be put at risk in places they can’t even place on a map.”"

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/apr/01/care-homes-crisis-children-sent-to-live-hundreds-of-miles-away

    Dare we think that one way to stop the abuse of children in care might be to not place them hundreds of miles away from any social network that they have?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,805
    TimS said:

    pigeon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    Yes. I’m on top of Primrose Hill and it’s definitely spring. The sun has suddenly emerged. And the people. The soft wind is cold yet somehow unthreatening. It speaks in kindly words of warmth ahead



    It was about this time in Covid Year One that we started a wonderful run of weather.
    I was getting strong lockdown 1 vibes earlier. The good bits of lockdown 1. Not the 90% that was shitty.
    Probably feels like that because March was so unrelentingly miserable. Well below average sunshine hours for most of the UK and the wettest March in England since 1981 according to the Met Office. I think we have a short run of bright cloudless days and cold nights coming, at least in my corner of the land, but beyond that it looks more changeable.

    I'd love a re-run of the kind of Spring weather we had in 2020 but you should be careful what you wish for. The bigger picture demands more rain, I'm afraid. The last thing we want is to end up with a dry Spring, followed inevitably by a dry Summer dotted about with stupidly, brutally hot days and, therefore, an even worse drought.
    A sunny April will be disastrous for my vineyard, so I know what you mean. Not drought in my case but frost. April sunshine means night radiation frosts, and the buds on some of my early vines - the melon de Bourgogne - are already woolly and close to bursting. Only second year so no crop to worry about but second year foliage growth is important and late frosts knock it back.

    On a related topic given the discussion about favourite drinks I posted my latest blog entry from the vineyard earlier, on Pinot Meunier.

    https://www.littlebursted.com/post/on-pinot-meunier
    It is utterly, heartbreakingly beautiful in the South Lakes today. I'm on my second annual night-away-with-the-wife-and-no-kids. A massive lunch, an easy walk up Gummers How, and an afternoon of lolling about at tge Swan at Newby Bridge, where I am about to head down for my secind massive meal of the day.
    But Spring is definitely here. Lambs and daffodils aplenty.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,341

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I love listicles so I just asked ChatGPT to give me the 100 most important people of the 20th century.

    The response is quite eccentric. Includes Sting, Greta Thunberg, and Isaac Bashevis Singer.

    Great is a bit of an odd one, as she was born in the 21st Century.
    That’s what I told ChatGPT, to which it conceded it was an error.

    But how precisely do you make such a dumb error?

    My faith is flagging.
    ChatGPT is a bullshitter. The Boris Johnson of the IT world that suckered the gullible.
    A really silly remark. You just don't understand
    I think he probably does. Most of the people I hear getting very excited about ChatGPT are generally those with no science or IT training. ChatGPT is an interesting concept, and will get better, but it is massively overhyped.
    From that paper, the most authoritative yet on the abilities of GPT4:

    "We demonstrate that, beyond its mastery of language, GPT-4 can solve novel and difficult tasks that span mathematics, coding, vision, medicine, law, psychology and more, without needing any special prompting. Moreover, in all of these tasks, GPT-4's performance is strikingly close to human-level performance, and often vastly surpasses prior models such as ChatGPT. Given the breadth and depth of GPT-4's capabilities, we believe that it could reasonably be viewed as an early (yet still incomplete) version of an artificial general intelligence (AGI) system."

    An epochal moment in the history of humanity, if it is true. And even if it is not true, the fact that 15 of the best experts in the field - globally - can reach this conclusion is itself startling and remarkable. It means we are close

    But no, @Nigel_Foremain an anonymous man from Fucknows and his idiot retired friend @foxy who lives in Leicester and knows about lawnmowers says "Most of the people I hear getting very excited about ChatGPT are generally those with no science or IT training"
    Replace Chat GPT-4 with What.Three.Words and you spammed PB with this last year.
    THE NECKLACE

    THE PLAGUE

    THE LAB LEAK

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,996
    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    pigeon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    Yes. I’m on top of Primrose Hill and it’s definitely spring. The sun has suddenly emerged. And the people. The soft wind is cold yet somehow unthreatening. It speaks in kindly words of warmth ahead



    It was about this time in Covid Year One that we started a wonderful run of weather.
    I was getting strong lockdown 1 vibes earlier. The good bits of lockdown 1. Not the 90% that was shitty.
    Probably feels like that because March was so unrelentingly miserable. Well below average sunshine hours for most of the UK and the wettest March in England since 1981 according to the Met Office. I think we have a short run of bright cloudless days and cold nights coming, at least in my corner of the land, but beyond that it looks more changeable.

    I'd love a re-run of the kind of Spring weather we had in 2020 but you should be careful what you wish for. The bigger picture demands more rain, I'm afraid. The last thing we want is to end up with a dry Spring, followed inevitably by a dry Summer dotted about with stupidly, brutally hot days and, therefore, an even worse drought.
    A sunny April will be disastrous for my vineyard, so I know what you mean. Not drought in my case but frost. April sunshine means night radiation frosts, and the buds on some of my early vines - the melon de Bourgogne - are already woolly and close to bursting. Only second year so no crop to worry about but second year foliage growth is important and late frosts knock it back.

    On a related topic given the discussion about favourite drinks I posted my latest blog entry from the vineyard earlier, on Pinot Meunier.

    https://www.littlebursted.com/post/on-pinot-meunier
    It is utterly, heartbreakingly beautiful in the South Lakes today. I'm on my second annual night-away-with-the-wife-and-no-kids. A massive lunch, an easy walk up Gummers How, and an afternoon of lolling about at tge Swan at Newby Bridge, where I am about to head down for my secind massive meal of the day.
    But Spring is definitely here. Lambs and daffodils aplenty.
    That’s lovely. Sunshine after a month of grey makes it all worthwhile.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Foxy said:

    "Anne Longfield, the former children’s commissioner for England, said the large distances involved were a symptom of a broken system. “I have heard so many horrific stories of teenagers who are moved far from home to places where they know nobody,” she said. “They then become easy pickings for those who want to exploit and abuse children.

    “The independent review of children’s social care published a year ago provided a roadmap to fixing this crisis. However, the government’s half-hearted response and its failure to provide the levels of investment required means hundreds of vulnerable children will continue to be put at risk in places they can’t even place on a map.”"

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/apr/01/care-homes-crisis-children-sent-to-live-hundreds-of-miles-away

    Dare we think that one way to stop the abuse of children in care might be to not place them hundreds of miles away from any social network that they have?

    Yes, but it's like with all our other problems. To govern is to choose, and the Government chooses austerity because the alternative is grabbing all its well-to-do supporters by the ankles and shaking them until some of their asset wealth falls out of their pockets. Pensioners get to keep their triple lock every year but it's rolling cuts for just about everyone else.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,683
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I love listicles so I just asked ChatGPT to give me the 100 most important people of the 20th century.

    The response is quite eccentric. Includes Sting, Greta Thunberg, and Isaac Bashevis Singer.

    Great is a bit of an odd one, as she was born in the 21st Century.
    That’s what I told ChatGPT, to which it conceded it was an error.

    But how precisely do you make such a dumb error?

    My faith is flagging.
    ChatGPT is a bullshitter. The Boris Johnson of the IT world that suckered the gullible.
    A really silly remark. You just don't understand
    I think he probably does. Most of the people I hear getting very excited about ChatGPT are generally those with no science or IT training. ChatGPT is an interesting concept, and will get better, but it is massively overhyped.
    From that paper, the most authoritative yet on the abilities of GPT4:

    "We demonstrate that, beyond its mastery of language, GPT-4 can solve novel and difficult tasks that span mathematics, coding, vision, medicine, law, psychology and more, without needing any special prompting. Moreover, in all of these tasks, GPT-4's performance is strikingly close to human-level performance, and often vastly surpasses prior models such as ChatGPT. Given the breadth and depth of GPT-4's capabilities, we believe that it could reasonably be viewed as an early (yet still incomplete) version of an artificial general intelligence (AGI) system."

    An epochal moment in the history of humanity, if it is true. And even if it is not true, the fact that 15 of the best experts in the field - globally - can reach this conclusion is itself startling and remarkable. It means we are close

    But no, @Nigel_Foremain an anonymous man from Fucknows and his idiot retired friend @foxy who lives in Leicester and knows about lawnmowers says "Most of the people I hear getting very excited about ChatGPT are generally those with no science or IT training"
    Replace Chat GPT-4 with What.Three.Words and you spammed PB with this last year.
    THE NECKLACE

    THE PLAGUE

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    THREADS

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Foxy said:

    "Anne Longfield, the former children’s commissioner for England, said the large distances involved were a symptom of a broken system. “I have heard so many horrific stories of teenagers who are moved far from home to places where they know nobody,” she said. “They then become easy pickings for those who want to exploit and abuse children.

    “The independent review of children’s social care published a year ago provided a roadmap to fixing this crisis. However, the government’s half-hearted response and its failure to provide the levels of investment required means hundreds of vulnerable children will continue to be put at risk in places they can’t even place on a map.”"

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/apr/01/care-homes-crisis-children-sent-to-live-hundreds-of-miles-away

    Dare we think that one way to stop the abuse of children in care might be to not place them hundreds of miles away from any social network that they have?

    Is that not quite deliberate in many cases, to remove vulnerable kids from their local gangs or abusive relatives?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,344

    “never hate your enemies, it affects your judgment.”

    Nicola’s obituary?

    Nicola's, or those who hated her?

    Whatever she got wrong, she got the SNP closer to power and to their underlying ambition than her predecessors... and by the look of it, her successor.
    how did you imagine that one then. Salmond almost won the referendum , since she took over she achieved nothing , backwards on independence and wrecked the party.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,408
    edited April 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    "Anne Longfield, the former children’s commissioner for England, said the large distances involved were a symptom of a broken system. “I have heard so many horrific stories of teenagers who are moved far from home to places where they know nobody,” she said. “They then become easy pickings for those who want to exploit and abuse children.

    “The independent review of children’s social care published a year ago provided a roadmap to fixing this crisis. However, the government’s half-hearted response and its failure to provide the levels of investment required means hundreds of vulnerable children will continue to be put at risk in places they can’t even place on a map.”"

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/apr/01/care-homes-crisis-children-sent-to-live-hundreds-of-miles-away

    Dare we think that one way to stop the abuse of children in care might be to not place them hundreds of miles away from any social network that they have?

    Is that not quite deliberate in many cases, to remove vulnerable kids from their local gangs or abusive relatives?
    Sometimes yes.
    More often it's because there are no places whatsoever locally.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,341
    edited April 2023
    If ChatGPT is a "meaningless bullshitter" and only "suckers the gullible" according to Sir Professor Nigel "Nigel" Formain of the University of Tescos CarPark, Newent, then we have to explain why 1000 people, from Elon Musk and the co-founder of Apple, signed this letter

    "Elon Musk, Steve Wozniak and 1,121 tech experts just signed an open letter to pause the training of AI models more powerful than GPT-4.

    They warn this could "represent a profound change in the history of life on Earth.""



    https://twitter.com/thealexbanks/status/1641413715307429889?s=20


    https://twitter.com/GaryMarcus/status/1640884040835428357?s=20


    But no, wait, let's go over to a retired optometrist in Leicester, who says it's all "a fuss about nothing"
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,683
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    "Anne Longfield, the former children’s commissioner for England, said the large distances involved were a symptom of a broken system. “I have heard so many horrific stories of teenagers who are moved far from home to places where they know nobody,” she said. “They then become easy pickings for those who want to exploit and abuse children.

    “The independent review of children’s social care published a year ago provided a roadmap to fixing this crisis. However, the government’s half-hearted response and its failure to provide the levels of investment required means hundreds of vulnerable children will continue to be put at risk in places they can’t even place on a map.”"

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/apr/01/care-homes-crisis-children-sent-to-live-hundreds-of-miles-away

    Dare we think that one way to stop the abuse of children in care might be to not place them hundreds of miles away from any social network that they have?

    Is that not quite deliberate in many cases, to remove vulnerable kids from their local gangs or abusive relatives?
    No, mostly that there are no local places. So they get shipped off to seaside resorts and northern towns.
  • Graham Potter sacked by Chelsea.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    edited April 2023
    In a way if a nascent AI does a Skynet and nukes us all back to the Stone Age and then hunts the remainder down with endoskeleton infiltrators, at the very least we will comprehensively put an end to answer to PB threads arguing whether AI is shit or not.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,408

    Graham Potter sacked by Chelsea.

    If I was Leicester City I'd be on the phone.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373
    malcolmg said:

    “never hate your enemies, it affects your judgment.”

    Nicola’s obituary?

    Nicola's, or those who hated her?

    Whatever she got wrong, she got the SNP closer to power and to their underlying ambition than her predecessors... and by the look of it, her successor.
    how did you imagine that one then. Salmond almost won the referendum , since she took over she achieved nothing , backwards on independence and wrecked the party.
    That's a bit BJO and his interpretation of Corbyn's election victory (almost) in 2017. Salmond was also divisive. Nippy was a chip off the old block, she achieved peak SNP, but blew the doors off in her final year.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Completely O/T but started watching a murder mystery series called “The Magpie Murders” on iPlayer. Absolutely great. Fun, beautiful to watch and Lesley Manville being her usual excellent self along with other lesser lights.

  • Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
    British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.

    https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/cases-and-testimonials/cases/the-mau-mau-claims/
    The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
    Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
    Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
    Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
  • dixiedean said:

    Graham Potter sacked by Chelsea.

    If I was Leicester City I'd be on the phone.
    Graham Potter cost Chelsea £3.1 million in compensation to Brighton for each Premier League victory.

    https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1642605689628504066
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,683
    pigeon said:

    Foxy said:

    "Anne Longfield, the former children’s commissioner for England, said the large distances involved were a symptom of a broken system. “I have heard so many horrific stories of teenagers who are moved far from home to places where they know nobody,” she said. “They then become easy pickings for those who want to exploit and abuse children.

    “The independent review of children’s social care published a year ago provided a roadmap to fixing this crisis. However, the government’s half-hearted response and its failure to provide the levels of investment required means hundreds of vulnerable children will continue to be put at risk in places they can’t even place on a map.”"

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/apr/01/care-homes-crisis-children-sent-to-live-hundreds-of-miles-away

    Dare we think that one way to stop the abuse of children in care might be to not place them hundreds of miles away from any social network that they have?

    Yes, but it's like with all our other problems. To govern is to choose, and the Government chooses austerity because the alternative is grabbing all its well-to-do supporters by the ankles and shaking them until some of their asset wealth falls out of their pockets. Pensioners get to keep their triple lock every year but it's rolling cuts for just about everyone else.
    Indeed, we might even want to look upstream and consider why so many families break down to the point that their children wind up in residential care. That though might be rather uncomfortable for us as a society.
  • malcolmg said:

    “never hate your enemies, it affects your judgment.”

    Nicola’s obituary?

    Nicola's, or those who hated her?

    Whatever she got wrong, she got the SNP closer to power and to their underlying ambition than her predecessors... and by the look of it, her successor.
    how did you imagine that one then. Salmond almost won the referendum , since she took over she achieved nothing , backwards on independence and wrecked the party.
    She took the SNP from 6 MPs on Salmond's watch to 48* MPs when she left.

    *Including the rats who subsequently defected to Alba and those who had the whip removed for being bad uns.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,904
    boulay said:

    Completely O/T but started watching a murder mystery series called “The Magpie Murders” on iPlayer. Absolutely great. Fun, beautiful to watch and Lesley Manville being her usual excellent self along with other lesser lights.

    The Magpie Murders is Saturday night on BBC1 for ordinary viewers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,683

    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
    British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.

    https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/cases-and-testimonials/cases/the-mau-mau-claims/
    The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
    Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
    Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
    Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
    The compensation was paid in 2013 by a Conservative led government.

    It didn't make the claim that all is fair in war, or indeed claim that its victims were Mau Mau.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I love listicles so I just asked ChatGPT to give me the 100 most important people of the 20th century.

    The response is quite eccentric. Includes Sting, Greta Thunberg, and Isaac Bashevis Singer.

    Great is a bit of an odd one, as she was born in the 21st Century.
    That’s what I told ChatGPT, to which it conceded it was an error.

    But how precisely do you make such a dumb error?

    My faith is flagging.
    ChatGPT is a bullshitter. The Boris Johnson of the IT world that suckered the gullible.
    A really silly remark. You just don't understand
    I think he probably does. Most of the people I hear getting very excited about ChatGPT are generally those with no science or IT training. ChatGPT is an interesting concept, and will get better, but it is massively overhyped.
    From that paper, the most authoritative yet on the abilities of GPT4:

    "We demonstrate that, beyond its mastery of language, GPT-4 can solve novel and difficult tasks that span mathematics, coding, vision, medicine, law, psychology and more, without needing any special prompting. Moreover, in all of these tasks, GPT-4's performance is strikingly close to human-level performance, and often vastly surpasses prior models such as ChatGPT. Given the breadth and depth of GPT-4's capabilities, we believe that it could reasonably be viewed as an early (yet still incomplete) version of an artificial general intelligence (AGI) system."

    An epochal moment in the history of humanity, if it is true. And even if it is not true, the fact that 15 of the best experts in the field - globally - can reach this conclusion is itself startling and remarkable. It means we are close

    But no, @Nigel_Foremain an anonymous man from Fucknows and his idiot retired friend @foxy who lives in Leicester and knows about lawnmowers says "Most of the people I hear getting very excited about ChatGPT are generally those with no science or IT training"
    Replace Chat GPT-4 with What.Three.Words and you spammed PB with this last year.
    Replace Chat Gpt-4 and what three words with you, Oxford, France and pineapple pizza and we'd still be on PB
    That's four (possibly five) words.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,341

    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    TimS said:

    It’s definitely spring today. Chilly, but still and sunny with stirrings of growth in the garden and a warmth in the sun. First mow of the season.

    I remember commenting about the late autumn pub Sunday sentiments in songs such as Gerry Rafferty’s Baker Street or David Gray’s Babylon. Very different on a spring Sunday before Easter. It’s time for jingly British indie music.

    This weekend I’ve latched on to a quaint little group from Wigan called The Lathums. There’s nothing particularly ground breaking in their music but it’s nice, very springlike, and obviously from the North West (if you liked the Las you’ll like them). The most fun track on their latest album is called turmoil and it’s an absolute textbook pop ballad structure-wise. The sort of thing you’d study in GCSE music.

    What do you mean obviously from the North West, like the Las.

    I would argue there was is audible difference between Liverpool and Manchester bands, the former being more melodic.
    Which is why Wigan is the perfect synthesis. 17 miles from each. Big soul and house tradition.
    I tried to explain Northern Soul to some new friends from Maine last weekend.

    Another reminder of how race-obsessed Americans are, they struggled with the concept of a white soul sub-culture.
    There was an interesting piece in the Guardian this week, talking about the "Colour Bar", or its absence, in Britain, causing some problems with US forces in WW2 etc. It makes the point though that we had off shored our "Colour Bar" with plenty of "Whites Only" clubs and facilities across our Empire.

    "It was easier to deny the brutality, and even existence, of European colour bars, lynchings and exploitation because the physical distance between the metropole and the colonies meant most did not personally witness the atrocities and rules."

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/mar/29/lest-we-remember-how-britain-buried-its-history-of-slavery?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Wow their were colour bars in the mid nineteenth century so we can celebrate the lack of colour bars in the 20th during world war 2. Really get a grip. One of your ancestors probably murdered one of mine...how dare you claim to be anti murder
    British Imperial atrocities are well within living memory. Hence our government recently, and belatedly paying compensation to victims of British torture in Kenya.

    https://www.leighday.co.uk/news/cases-and-testimonials/cases/the-mau-mau-claims/
    The Mau Mau were so loathed in Kenya that the organisation was banned for 40 years after independence.
    Ah well, that makes castrating suspected Mau Mau members ok then.
    Sometimes it was hard to convince our colonial subjects of the benefits of British rule.
    Sometimes there are quite a few people on the left who are quite happy to condemn every action of their own Government but become quite mute when it comes to the atrocities committed by those who they view as heroes.
    Indeed, @foxy is an exact example of this. It is a kind of mental deformity
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,683
    dixiedean said:

    Graham Potter sacked by Chelsea.

    If I was Leicester City I'd be on the phone.
    Indeed, very happy to have him!
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,919
    edited April 2023

    Graham Potter sacked by Chelsea.

    Said to Spurs fan Dad this morning - Nagelsman to Chelski
This discussion has been closed.