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They’re trolling us now. – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • I've just finished watching Die Hard again.

    It's a Christmas movie.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,337
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Clarkson must be jolly pleased that he’s short circuited all those with a sense of humour bypass.

    You should write to him in support, there are probably niche clubs you join.
    Come on, it was at least a BIT funny
    Not to me. I think it’s disgraceful, cruel and dehumanising language.
    It’s tasteless gibberish from an ageing man with a love of attention. Worse, it’s not funny

    Clarkson is very funny - a comic genius in his timing (see the latest Grand Tour) - and a pretty good writer. But that column is puerile. A mistake
    What did he write?
    A foolish, boorish Sun column
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    People lock themselves down, out of fear. This is much better than government imposed restrictions

    “China has released all COVID restrictions. What happens?
    The streets are empty, Saturday evening in a restaurant and shopping mall: empty...
    People stay at home, they worry to get the Virus”

    https://twitter.com/duanqiaozhi/status/1604062420737134593?s=46&t=h6a3a3nh8K86eWg1SzG57Q


    https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-cities-battle-first-wave-covid-surge-wider-spread-looms-2022-12-18/
    I think the initial lockdowns were necessary. I don't think enough people would have acted without legal imperative, even though it was only every voluntary in practice, since outside of a China like place it would not be enforcable on the unwilling.

    Once things were under more control, and people had seen what had happened without taking action, I think less legal restrictions were needed.
    Lockdown 1 was probably inevitable. We did not know what we were facing

    After that we knew the death rate and we knew how horribly expensive it is to stop the whole economy. It was also apparent that a lot of people suffered in lockdown

    Lockdowns 2 and 3 were a tragic mistake. Closing the schools was a tragic mistake. And so on

    Starmer and Labour would have been even worse, of course
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Clarkson must be jolly pleased that he’s short circuited all those with a sense of humour bypass.

    You should write to him in support, there are probably niche clubs you join.
    Come on, it was at least a BIT funny
    Not to me. I think it’s disgraceful, cruel and dehumanising language.
    It’s tasteless gibberish from an ageing man with a love of attention. Worse, it’s not funny

    Clarkson is very funny - a comic genius in his timing (see the latest Grand Tour) - and a pretty good writer. But that column is puerile. A mistake
    "Tasteless gibberish from an ageing man" deserves a place in the pantheon of PB textual commentary much as "vapid bilge" did in its time.
    Particularly when its author is the main culprit on here.
    Knows what he's talking about.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,337
    Argentina looking way better than France
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
    I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
    Eadric went to Wales.
    Sorry - keeping the list of which of several hundred million @SeanT’s did what, is bloody hard.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited December 2022
    One problem with voluntary lockdown is what we saw time and again in the UK, given half an inch people were very quick to make full use of any relaxations, while always taking advantage of those until the very last second (remember all the people piling down the pubs on the night each night it was announced they would have to be closed).

    Basically by the time people really got scared during each wave it was already too late and it was well spread...people reacted when their WhatsApp groups starting pinging that yet another member had COVID, which is too late because you probably now have it too.

    After the initial lockdown, I think we need to have a set of rules that we just stuck with i.e. none of this moving between tiers / in and out of lockdowns.

    Questions around schools I think are the really valid things. Yes kids will have spread it among themselves, but all that disruption for 2 years have caused so much damage.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Cheating dirty Argies....the Leeds United of international football.

    Vive Les Blues.

    Although looking a little tired at the minute.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Clarkson must be jolly pleased that he’s short circuited all those with a sense of humour bypass.

    You should write to him in support, there are probably niche clubs you join.
    Come on, it was at least a BIT funny
    Not to me. I think it’s disgraceful, cruel and dehumanising language.
    It’s tasteless gibberish from an ageing man with a love of attention. Worse, it’s not funny

    Clarkson is very funny - a comic genius in his timing (see the latest Grand Tour) - and a pretty good writer. But that column is puerile. A mistake
    What did he write?
    A foolish, boorish Sun column
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    People lock themselves down, out of fear. This is much better than government imposed restrictions

    “China has released all COVID restrictions. What happens?
    The streets are empty, Saturday evening in a restaurant and shopping mall: empty...
    People stay at home, they worry to get the Virus”

    https://twitter.com/duanqiaozhi/status/1604062420737134593?s=46&t=h6a3a3nh8K86eWg1SzG57Q


    https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-cities-battle-first-wave-covid-surge-wider-spread-looms-2022-12-18/
    I think the initial lockdowns were necessary. I don't think enough people would have acted without legal imperative, even though it was only every voluntary in practice, since outside of a China like place it would not be enforcable on the unwilling.

    Once things were under more control, and people had seen what had happened without taking action, I think less legal restrictions were needed.
    Lockdown 1 was probably inevitable. We did not know what we were facing

    After that we knew the death rate and we knew how horribly expensive it is to stop the whole economy. It was also apparent that a lot of people suffered in lockdown

    Lockdowns 2 and 3 were a tragic mistake. Closing the schools was a tragic mistake. And so on

    Starmer and Labour would have been even worse, of course
    Lockdown were required and useful, until vaccination combined with infection raised the immunity of the population to a high level.

    We were very lucky Omicron appeared when it did. Nothing, apart from vaccination, can do much against it.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995
    edited December 2022

    Cheating dirty Argies....the Leeds United of international football.

    They’re running rings around les bleus so far though. Come on France, wake up!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,337

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
    I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
    Eadric went to Wales.
    I believe Eadric went to Penarth in Wales because he was loaned a luxury apartment by a millionaire friend who was grateful that Eadric forewarned him
    about Covid. He also fled before the first UK lockdown and broke no rules

    AIUI
  • Cheating dirty Argies....the Leeds United of international football.

    Vive Les Blues.

    Although looking a little tired at the minute.
    Apparently loads of them have had some sort of plague....
  • For one day only.

    Vive La France, vive la liberté.

    Its Alien vs Predator territory.....
    I'm on team Alien, I mean thanks to recent changes, the Alien Queen is now a Disney Queen.
    The Aliens are hive structured pseudo-insects. Natural communists.

    The Predators seem to be big game hunting Imperialists, complete with a Nietzschian Social Darwinistic societal structure. Natural fascists?
    I think you are right.
  • More Leeds United style defending there.
  • Penalty!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
    I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
    Eadric went to Wales.
    Did he ever come back? Have we heard from him lately?
  • Blatant dive.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    Messi to take a penalty.
    What drama!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
    I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
    Eadric went to Wales.
    I believe Eadric went to Penarth in Wales because he was loaned a luxury apartment by a millionaire friend who was grateful that Eadric forewarned him
    about Covid. He also fled before the first UK lockdown and broke no rules

    AIUI
    Moral cowardice. No actual rules.
  • Spoiler alerts for us watching on iPlayer that is minutes behind....
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Goal
  • Penalty..... ;-)
  • Spoiler alerts for us watching on iPlayer that is minutes behind....

    Is the reason why I stopped watching it in UHD.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
    I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
    Eadric went to Wales.
    I have some sympathy with Leon's position here. Covid released a torrent of effluent. The lockdowns, the cover ups, the refusal ever to consider the costs. Anger is growing, and people are casting around for someone to blame apart from themselves.
    But I wouldn't agree about Ukraine following from covid. Putin's been preparing for this for years.
  • Christ iplayer must be 2+ minutes behind.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,337
    That’s exactly what this game needs. France have to play now
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    edited December 2022
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
    I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
    Eadric went to Wales.
    I believe Eadric went to Penarth in Wales because he was loaned a luxury apartment by a millionaire friend who was grateful that Eadric forewarned him
    about Covid. He also fled before the first UK lockdown and broke no rules

    AIUI
    He was a real twat, posting incessantly about his holiday while the rest of us were following the ‘stay at home’ rules. This site is better for his absence.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,337
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
    I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
    Eadric went to Wales.
    I believe Eadric went to Penarth in Wales because he was loaned a luxury apartment by a millionaire friend who was grateful that Eadric forewarned him
    about Covid. He also fled before the first UK lockdown and broke no rules

    AIUI
    He was a real twat, posting incessantly about his holiday while the rest of us were following the rules. This site is better for his absence.
    Quite impressive, however, to be loaned an award winning luxury apartment (complete with sauna) because your Covid predictions enabled a businessman to save £100,000s
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    edited December 2022
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
    I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
    Eadric went to Wales.
    I believe Eadric went to Penarth in Wales because he was loaned a luxury apartment by a millionaire friend who was grateful that Eadric forewarned him
    about Covid. He also fled before the first UK lockdown and broke no rules

    AIUI
    He was a real twat, posting incessantly about his holiday while the rest of us were following the rules. This site is better for his absence.
    Quite impressive, however, to be loaned an award winning luxury apartment (complete with sauna) because your Covid predictions enabled a businessman to save £100,000s
    No, seriously, it wasn’t.

    He was an utter sh*t, completely oblivious as to the impact of the lockdown on the majority of honest folk.

    So good riddance.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
    I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
    Eadric went to Wales.
    I believe Eadric went to Penarth in Wales because he was loaned a luxury apartment by a millionaire friend who was grateful that Eadric forewarned him
    about Covid. He also fled before the first UK lockdown and broke no rules

    AIUI
    He was a real twat, posting incessantly about his holiday while the rest of us were following the rules. This site is better for his absence.
    Quite impressive, however, to be loaned an award winning luxury apartment (complete with sauna) because your Covid predictions enabled a businessman to save £100,000s
    It’s pretty cool, but bragging about it is testes-witheringly sad.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,337
    France look lacklustre
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
    I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
    Eadric went to Wales.
    I believe Eadric went to Penarth in Wales because he was loaned a luxury apartment by a millionaire friend who was grateful that Eadric forewarned him
    about Covid. He also fled before the first UK lockdown and broke no rules

    AIUI
    He was a real twat, posting incessantly about his holiday while the rest of us were following the rules. This site is better for his absence.
    Quite impressive, however, to be loaned an award winning luxury apartment (complete with sauna) because your Covid predictions enabled a businessman to save £100,000s
    Stopped clocks and all that
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,337
    France could go 2 down here and the final will be more or less over
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    France look lacklustre

    Wonder how many of them have had this virus? Shades of the all blacks Vs south Africa.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited December 2022
    O/T:
    Chinese authorities reported ~2000 "locally transmitted" SARSCoV2 cases on Saturday. The Financial Times cites some guy or other, analyst of "online search trends" (I'm not making this up), who estimates that there were ~40 million cases on Friday - and that ~39% of Beijing were infected by Saturday. Say what you like about the FT, but it hasn't got the same audience as the Daily Star.

    I have no idea which is the closer estimate, but something's definitely going on.

    It seems that an awful lot of people in China are ill at the moment. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that they're all infected with SARSCoV2, or if they are, that that is what's making them ill.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,787

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
    I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
    Eadric went to Wales.
    I thought that group of PBers always went to the same place. Some sort of group discount or something.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,337

    Leon said:

    France look lacklustre

    Wonder how many of them have had this virus? Shades of the all blacks Vs south Africa.
    Yes. My thoughts entirely

    So easy to do. And the argentines are so crazy they would do it. I bet FIFA would prefer an Argentina victory as well
  • 2-0 to the Argies!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Cracking goal
  • IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
    I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
    Eadric went to Wales.
    I believe Eadric went to Penarth in Wales because he was loaned a luxury apartment by a millionaire friend who was grateful that Eadric forewarned him
    about Covid. He also fled before the first UK lockdown and broke no rules

    AIUI
    He was a real twat, posting incessantly about his holiday while the rest of us were following the rules. This site is better for his absence.
    Quite impressive, however, to be loaned an award winning luxury apartment (complete with sauna) because your Covid predictions enabled a businessman to save £100,000s
    No, seriously, it wasn’t.

    He was an utter sh*t, completely oblivious as to the impact of the lockdown on the majority of honest folk.

    So good riddance.
    Which takes us back to the original header. Cutting corners to advantage
    oneself and ones mates at the expense of everyone else.

    As for whether Lockdowns 2 and 3 were avoidable... They probably were. Other parts of Europe got away without the hardcore lockdown the UK had. But in large part that was by not letting the damn thing get as out of hand in the first place. The UK went stupid in December and January, leading to the rapid collapse of Christmas 2020 and the misery of January to March 2021.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Not sure what's happened to France.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    I've noticed that even when Messi has not played particularly well the headlines tend to be along the lines of 'Messi and Argentina through to next round', as if he was somehow separate from them, or that the real story is about his journey rather than that of the time. The surprising thing is if the reaction of his team mates is anything to go by, like when they one the Copa America, they see it in a similar way. Which is a contrast to some other big name players and their national teams.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Clarkson must be jolly pleased that he’s short circuited all those with a sense of humour bypass.

    You should write to him in support, there are probably niche clubs you join.
    Come on, it was at least a BIT funny
    Not to me. I think it’s disgraceful, cruel and dehumanising language.
    It’s tasteless gibberish from an ageing man with a love of attention. Worse, it’s not funny

    Clarkson is very funny - a comic genius in his timing (see the latest Grand Tour) - and a pretty good writer. But that column is puerile. A mistake
    What did he write?
    A foolish, boorish Sun column
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    People lock themselves down, out of fear. This is much better than government imposed restrictions

    “China has released all COVID restrictions. What happens?
    The streets are empty, Saturday evening in a restaurant and shopping mall: empty...
    People stay at home, they worry to get the Virus”

    https://twitter.com/duanqiaozhi/status/1604062420737134593?s=46&t=h6a3a3nh8K86eWg1SzG57Q


    https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-cities-battle-first-wave-covid-surge-wider-spread-looms-2022-12-18/
    I think the initial lockdowns were necessary. I don't think enough people would have acted without legal imperative, even though it was only every voluntary in practice, since outside of a China like place it would not be enforcable on the unwilling.

    Once things were under more control, and people had seen what had happened without taking action, I think less legal restrictions were needed.
    Lockdown 1 was probably inevitable. We did not know what we were facing

    After that we knew the death rate and we knew how horribly expensive it is to stop the whole economy. It was also apparent that a lot of people suffered in lockdown

    Lockdowns 2 and 3 were a tragic mistake. Closing the schools was a tragic mistake. And so on

    Starmer and Labour would have been even worse, of course
    Lockdown were required and useful, until vaccination combined with infection raised the immunity of the population to a high level.

    We were very lucky Omicron appeared when it did. Nothing, apart from vaccination, can do much against it.
    If/when we face a similar pandemic threat, I would hope we’d have learned lessons about keeping schools open.

    I followed the rules and was generally ok with a lot of the restrictions on balance (I mean, I hated them, but understood the importance of lowering the r rate and protecting the vulnerable while we were working on vaccines). But the flat closure of schools (and then the hokey-cokey on reopening) has caused long-term social and education problems which will take years of study to properly understand.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    That was some goal. I did not see Argentina being so dominant today.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,337
    Cough

    Leon
    3:33

    France could go 2 down here and the final will be more or less over

    THE CURSE IS LIFTED

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
    I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
    Eadric went to Wales.
    I believe Eadric went to Penarth in Wales because he was loaned a luxury apartment by a millionaire friend who was grateful that Eadric forewarned him
    about Covid. He also fled before the first UK lockdown and broke no rules

    AIUI
    He was a real twat, posting incessantly about his holiday while the rest of us were following the rules. This site is better for his absence.
    Quite impressive, however, to be loaned an award winning luxury apartment (complete with sauna) because your Covid predictions enabled a businessman to save £100,000s
    No, seriously, it wasn’t.

    He was an utter sh*t, completely oblivious as to the impact of the lockdown on the majority of honest folk.

    So good riddance.
    Which takes us back to the original header. Cutting corners to advantage
    oneself and ones mates at the expense of everyone else.

    As for whether Lockdowns 2 and 3 were avoidable... They probably were. Other parts of Europe got away without the hardcore lockdown the UK had. But in large part that was by not letting the damn thing get as out of hand in the first place. The UK went stupid in December and January, leading to the rapid collapse of Christmas 2020 and the misery of January to March 2021.
    The comments on Europe not having hard lockdowns are totally at odds with the truth.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Fantastic goal!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,660

    Cracking goal

    Putting Di Maria on the left wing seems to have surprised France. He doesn't seen to have started most matches.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    edited December 2022
    2
    Leon said:

    Cough

    Leon
    3:33

    France could go 2 down here and the final will be more or less over

    THE CURSE IS LIFTED

    A premature interjection. But far from your first.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
    I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
    Eadric went to Wales.
    I believe Eadric went to Penarth in Wales because he was loaned a luxury apartment by a millionaire friend who was grateful that Eadric forewarned him
    about Covid. He also fled before the first UK lockdown and broke no rules

    AIUI
    He was a real twat, posting incessantly about his holiday while the rest of us were following the rules. This site is better for his absence.
    Quite impressive, however, to be loaned an award winning luxury apartment (complete with sauna) because your Covid predictions enabled a businessman to save £100,000s
    No, seriously, it wasn’t.

    He was an utter sh*t, completely oblivious as to the impact of the lockdown on the majority of honest folk.

    So good riddance.
    Which takes us back to the original header. Cutting corners to advantage
    oneself and ones mates at the expense of everyone else.

    As for whether Lockdowns 2 and 3 were avoidable... They probably were. Other parts of Europe got away without the hardcore lockdown the UK had. But in large part that was by not letting the damn thing get as out of hand in the first place. The UK went stupid in December and January, leading to the rapid collapse of Christmas 2020 and the misery of January to March 2021.
    The issue in Dec 2020 was the new variant, not behaviour.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362

    One problem with voluntary lockdown is what we saw time and again in the UK, given half an inch people were very quick to make full use of any relaxations, while always taking advantage of those until the very last second (remember all the people piling down the pubs on the night each night it was announced they would have to be closed).

    Basically by the time people really got scared during each wave it was already too late and it was well spread...people reacted when their WhatsApp groups starting pinging that yet another member had COVID, which is too late because you probably now have it too.

    After the initial lockdown, I think we need to have a set of rules that we just stuck with i.e. none of this moving between tiers / in and out of lockdowns.

    Questions around schools I think are the really valid things. Yes kids will have spread it among themselves, but all that disruption for 2 years have caused so much damage.

    The trade-off may well have been that if you'd done more consistent adaptations for society as a whole that you could probably have kept schools open throughout without that crashing the hospitals.

    This is why things like eat out to help out, or encouraging people to have a summer holiday in Spain, were so stupid.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    tlg86 said:

    That was some goal. I did not see Argentina being so dominant today.

    Hoping we get a France goal soon to make a game of this.

    Watching on the beeb but the comms are doing my head in a bit. Yes, there’s a Brighton player on the pitch. No, it is not an astonishing upending of the footballing heirarchy.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Clarkson must be jolly pleased that he’s short circuited all those with a sense of humour bypass.

    You should write to him in support, there are probably niche clubs you join.
    Come on, it was at least a BIT funny
    Not to me. I think it’s disgraceful, cruel and dehumanising language.
    It’s tasteless gibberish from an ageing man with a love of attention. Worse, it’s not funny

    Clarkson is very funny - a comic genius in his timing (see the latest Grand Tour) - and a pretty good writer. But that column is puerile. A mistake
    What did he write?
    A foolish, boorish Sun column
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    People lock themselves down, out of fear. This is much better than government imposed restrictions

    “China has released all COVID restrictions. What happens?
    The streets are empty, Saturday evening in a restaurant and shopping mall: empty...
    People stay at home, they worry to get the Virus”

    https://twitter.com/duanqiaozhi/status/1604062420737134593?s=46&t=h6a3a3nh8K86eWg1SzG57Q


    https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-cities-battle-first-wave-covid-surge-wider-spread-looms-2022-12-18/
    I think the initial lockdowns were necessary. I don't think enough people would have acted without legal imperative, even though it was only every voluntary in practice, since outside of a China like place it would not be enforcable on the unwilling.

    Once things were under more control, and people had seen what had happened without taking action, I think less legal restrictions were needed.
    Lockdown 1 was probably inevitable. We did not know what we were facing

    After that we knew the death rate and we knew how horribly expensive it is to stop the whole economy. It was also apparent that a lot of people suffered in lockdown

    Lockdowns 2 and 3 were a tragic mistake. Closing the schools was a tragic mistake. And so on

    Starmer and Labour would have been even worse, of course
    Lockdown were required and useful, until vaccination combined with infection raised the immunity of the population to a high level.

    We were very lucky Omicron appeared when it did. Nothing, apart from vaccination, can do much against it.
    Omicron doesn't cause any difficulties in the lower respiratory tract, of the kind that used to be necessary for a diagnosis of Covid-19 or Novel Coronavirus-Infected Pneumonia as it was once called. Mostly omicron causes nothing or it causes a cold. A lot of people got £500 for a positive test result though.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,337
    Ghedebrav said:

    tlg86 said:

    That was some goal. I did not see Argentina being so dominant today.

    Hoping we get a France goal soon to make a game of this.

    Watching on the beeb but the comms are doing my head in a bit. Yes, there’s a Brighton player on the pitch. No, it is not an astonishing upending of the footballing heirarchy.
    France are dreadful. Really dire. Not even a shot yet?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995
    Sometimes teams just have a day like this. Usually happens in the group stages though. The WC final isn’t the ideal time for it to happen to France.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    One problem with voluntary lockdown is what we saw time and again in the UK, given half an inch people were very quick to make full use of any relaxations, while always taking advantage of those until the very last second (remember all the people piling down the pubs on the night each night it was announced they would have to be closed).

    Basically by the time people really got scared during each wave it was already too late and it was well spread...people reacted when their WhatsApp groups starting pinging that yet another member had COVID, which is too late because you probably now have it too.

    After the initial lockdown, I think we need to have a set of rules that we just stuck with i.e. none of this moving between tiers / in and out of lockdowns.

    Questions around schools I think are the really valid things. Yes kids will have spread it among themselves, but all that disruption for 2 years have caused so much damage.

    We must never have any types of lockdowns ever again IMO. If vulnerable people want to isolate themselves, they can choose to do so.
  • Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    tlg86 said:

    That was some goal. I did not see Argentina being so dominant today.

    Hoping we get a France goal soon to make a game of this.

    Watching on the beeb but the comms are doing my head in a bit. Yes, there’s a Brighton player on the pitch. No, it is not an astonishing upending of the footballing heirarchy.
    France are dreadful. Really dire. Not even a shot yet?
    Giroud's header.
  • England would have beat this version of the French team....they look like a sunday league team after they have been out on the lash the previous night.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,337
    Andy_JS said:

    One problem with voluntary lockdown is what we saw time and again in the UK, given half an inch people were very quick to make full use of any relaxations, while always taking advantage of those until the very last second (remember all the people piling down the pubs on the night each night it was announced they would have to be closed).

    Basically by the time people really got scared during each wave it was already too late and it was well spread...people reacted when their WhatsApp groups starting pinging that yet another member had COVID, which is too late because you probably now have it too.

    After the initial lockdown, I think we need to have a set of rules that we just stuck with i.e. none of this moving between tiers / in and out of lockdowns.

    Questions around schools I think are the really valid things. Yes kids will have spread it among themselves, but all that disruption for 2 years have caused so much damage.

    We must never have any types of lockdowns ever again IMO. If vulnerable people want to isolate themselves, they can choose to do so.
    Indeed. And we are only now just beginning to see the damage they have done. To everything. From mental health to cancer care to kids educations to public finances to city centres to public services - and on and on

    I wonder what history will make of us, and this
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    tlg86 said:

    That was some goal. I did not see Argentina being so dominant today.

    Hoping we get a France goal soon to make a game of this.

    Watching on the beeb but the comms are doing my head in a bit. Yes, there’s a Brighton player on the pitch. No, it is not an astonishing upending of the footballing heirarchy.
    France are dreadful. Really dire. Not even a shot yet?
    Surprisingly bad.

    There’s time yet, but I’d guess that Brazil in 62 will still be the last team to retain the World Cup.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,660

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
    I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
    Eadric went to Wales.
    I believe Eadric went to Penarth in Wales because he was loaned a luxury apartment by a millionaire friend who was grateful that Eadric forewarned him
    about Covid. He also fled before the first UK lockdown and broke no rules

    AIUI
    He was a real twat, posting incessantly about his holiday while the rest of us were following the rules. This site is better for his absence.
    Quite impressive, however, to be loaned an award winning luxury apartment (complete with sauna) because your Covid predictions enabled a businessman to save £100,000s
    No, seriously, it wasn’t.

    He was an utter sh*t, completely oblivious as to the impact of the lockdown on the majority of honest folk.

    So good riddance.
    Which takes us back to the original header. Cutting corners to advantage
    oneself and ones mates at the expense of everyone else.

    As for whether Lockdowns 2 and 3 were avoidable... They probably were. Other parts of Europe got away without the hardcore lockdown the UK had. But in large part that was by not letting the damn thing get as out of hand in the first place. The UK went stupid in December and January, leading to the rapid collapse of Christmas 2020 and the misery of January to March 2021.
    The issue in Dec 2020 was the new variant, not behaviour.
    In part it was Delta, but also there was the vaccine programme starting, giving a way out. Lockdowns had some odd rules, and went on to long, but I think we peaked at 4000 deaths a day in Jan 2021.

    At our main ITU we has 53 patients that January, in a place built for 18. We had psychiatrists working as ITU nurses. It was bloody grim helping out there, something I never expected to do.

  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    TimS said:

    Sometimes teams just have a day like this. Usually happens in the group stages though. The WC final isn’t the ideal time for it to happen to France.

    I guess Argentina got their’s out of their system against Saudi.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,337
    Ghedebrav said:

    TimS said:

    Sometimes teams just have a day like this. Usually happens in the group stages though. The WC final isn’t the ideal time for it to happen to France.

    I guess Argentina got their’s out of their system against Saudi.
    Still only 2 goals tho. And France still have Mbappé
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995
    Thought for a moment they were singing swing low sweet chariot in the crowd. Certainly sounds similar
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    Lot of talk about France.
    But this is a top performance from Argentina. They are shutting everything down and attacking with pace.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One problem with voluntary lockdown is what we saw time and again in the UK, given half an inch people were very quick to make full use of any relaxations, while always taking advantage of those until the very last second (remember all the people piling down the pubs on the night each night it was announced they would have to be closed).

    Basically by the time people really got scared during each wave it was already too late and it was well spread...people reacted when their WhatsApp groups starting pinging that yet another member had COVID, which is too late because you probably now have it too.

    After the initial lockdown, I think we need to have a set of rules that we just stuck with i.e. none of this moving between tiers / in and out of lockdowns.

    Questions around schools I think are the really valid things. Yes kids will have spread it among themselves, but all that disruption for 2 years have caused so much damage.

    We must never have any types of lockdowns ever again IMO. If vulnerable people want to isolate themselves, they can choose to do so.
    Indeed. And we are only now just beginning to see the damage they have done. To everything. From mental health to cancer care to kids educations to public finances to city centres to public services - and on and on

    I wonder what history will make of us, and this
    I've been struggling with my mental health on and off ever since Lockdown II, to the point where, to be honest with you, full time work is hard - and I may part-time it for the forseeable, at whatever cost that is to the economy and the exchequer vs what I was earning before.

    I was actually starting to feel better this summer and considering a return to full time work, but I've been on the downward slide since October and the last couple of brutal weeks of weather have really rammed the depression home. It's hard at the moment to even get out of bed, let alone work.

    My mental health has not been the same since lockdown and every day is a struggle. I've never tested positive for Covid, but I'm still suffering the effects of lockdown years later.

    Wonder how many people there are out there like me.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
    I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
    Eadric went to Wales.
    I believe Eadric went to Penarth in Wales because he was loaned a luxury apartment by a millionaire friend who was grateful that Eadric forewarned him
    about Covid. He also fled before the first UK lockdown and broke no rules

    AIUI
    He was a real twat, posting incessantly about his holiday while the rest of us were following the rules. This site is better for his absence.
    Quite impressive, however, to be loaned an award winning luxury apartment (complete with sauna) because your Covid predictions enabled a businessman to save £100,000s
    It’s pretty cool, but bragging about it is testes-witheringly sad.
    People flouting rules in a way that allowed the virus to spread, one that has killed a quarter million Britons, is deeply immoral.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,337
    dixiedean said:

    Lot of talk about France.
    But this is a top performance from Argentina. They are shutting everything down and attacking with pace.

    Argentina look HUNGRIER

    France look like a team that won the last World Cup and reckon another might be quite nice
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    I am not sure why the PB consensus seems to be that we should no longer even subject our foreign policy toward Ukraine to any form of cost/benefit analysis. It would be a colossal dereliction of duty on the part of the Government not to analyse this. If the reason is humanitarian, can anyone tell me why it's perfectly acceptable to leave Afghans to the tender mercies of the Taliban?

    There’s no point because the strategic costs of Russia winning a so horrendous that it is a waste of time analysing. We are all in.
    How do you work that one out? Russian 'victory' even over the entirety of Ukraine would mean possession for Russia of a rebellious, resentful colony with a population that largely detests it. It would be a deeply unfortunate outcome but not one where I can see any unthinkable strategic cost to UK interests.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    Leon said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    TimS said:

    Sometimes teams just have a day like this. Usually happens in the group stages though. The WC final isn’t the ideal time for it to happen to France.

    I guess Argentina got their’s out of their system against Saudi.
    Still only 2 goals tho. And France still have Mbappé
    Those of us who saw Mbappé's cackling at Harry's penalty miss are going to relish his tears at the full time whistle.
  • dixiedean said:

    Lot of talk about France.
    But this is a top performance from Argentina. They are shutting everything down and attacking with pace.

    They are, particularly noticeable how much more up for the fight they are. You wouldn't be shocked if France waved the white flag at half time....
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    This is all very well but how many of these players would perform on a cold, wet Tuesday night at Stoke, eh? Eh?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,337
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One problem with voluntary lockdown is what we saw time and again in the UK, given half an inch people were very quick to make full use of any relaxations, while always taking advantage of those until the very last second (remember all the people piling down the pubs on the night each night it was announced they would have to be closed).

    Basically by the time people really got scared during each wave it was already too late and it was well spread...people reacted when their WhatsApp groups starting pinging that yet another member had COVID, which is too late because you probably now have it too.

    After the initial lockdown, I think we need to have a set of rules that we just stuck with i.e. none of this moving between tiers / in and out of lockdowns.

    Questions around schools I think are the really valid things. Yes kids will have spread it among themselves, but all that disruption for 2 years have caused so much damage.

    We must never have any types of lockdowns ever again IMO. If vulnerable people want to isolate themselves, they can choose to do so.
    Indeed. And we are only now just beginning to see the damage they have done. To everything. From mental health to cancer care to kids educations to public finances to city centres to public services - and on and on

    I wonder what history will make of us, and this
    I've been struggling with my mental health on and off ever since Lockdown II, to the point where, to be honest with you, full time work is hard - and I may part-time it for the forseeable, at whatever cost that is to the economy and the exchequer vs what I was earning before.

    I was actually starting to feel better this summer and considering a return to full time work, but I've been on the downward slide since October and the last couple of brutal weeks of weather have really rammed the depression home. It's hard at the moment to even get out of bed, let alone work.

    My mental health has not been the same since lockdown and every day is a struggle. I've never tested positive for Covid, but I'm still suffering the effects of lockdown years later.

    Wonder how many people there are out there like me.
    Your experience is not so far from mine. Sympathies

    Covid fucked with all our minds. Lockdowns made it so much worse
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,660
    DougSeal said:

    This is all very well but how many of these players would perform on a cold, wet Tuesday night at Stoke, eh? Eh?

    Many of them do! They play in the English Leagues.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited December 2022
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One problem with voluntary lockdown is what we saw time and again in the UK, given half an inch people were very quick to make full use of any relaxations, while always taking advantage of those until the very last second (remember all the people piling down the pubs on the night each night it was announced they would have to be closed).

    Basically by the time people really got scared during each wave it was already too late and it was well spread...people reacted when their WhatsApp groups starting pinging that yet another member had COVID, which is too late because you probably now have it too.

    After the initial lockdown, I think we need to have a set of rules that we just stuck with i.e. none of this moving between tiers / in and out of lockdowns.

    Questions around schools I think are the really valid things. Yes kids will have spread it among themselves, but all that disruption for 2 years have caused so much damage.

    We must never have any types of lockdowns ever again IMO. If vulnerable people want to isolate themselves, they can choose to do so.
    Indeed. And we are only now just beginning to see the damage they have done. To everything. From mental health to cancer care to kids educations to public finances to city centres to public services - and on and on

    I wonder what history will make of us, and this
    It will probably happen again in five minutes' time, in spades, squared, and to the power of itself, and, once again, it will be generally backed throughout the political classes, with dissenters ostracised, mocked, lied about, and much much worse.

    Things came very close to forced vaccination not just in Germany, Austria, and France (remember "emmerder"?), but generally.

    That's what "we" should make of the actual history now - near past and near future. The idea that there's going to be a general and consequential questioning is without foundation. One might as well say "lessons have got to be learnt", or that social credit and grid management aren't all they're cracked up to be. The middling types and experts will follow the clarion call next time just as they did before. There will be some resistance but it won't be from any of them. A few boring old gits may write in the Daily Sceptic, though, who may even be paid to bore everyone's t*ts off for all I know.

    Here's a quote for you. See if you can get it without looking it up:

    "Most often this concerns a general discourse on what is mediatically hidden, and this discussion can be strongly critical, and on some points obviously intelligent, yet remaining curiously decentered. The themes and words have been artificially selected, with the aid of computers informed in critical thought. These texts contain certain gaps, quite hard to spot but nonetheless remarkable: the vanishing point of perspective is always abnormally absent. They resemble those facsimiles of a famous weapon, which only lacks the firing-pin."
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    Foxy said:

    I am not sure why the PB consensus seems to be that we should no longer even subject our foreign policy toward Ukraine to any form of cost/benefit analysis. It would be a colossal dereliction of duty on the part of the Government not to analyse this. If the reason is humanitarian, can anyone tell me why it's perfectly acceptable to leave Afghans to the tender mercies of the Taliban?

    There’s no point because the strategic costs of Russia winning a so horrendous that it is a waste of time analysing. We are all in.
    It is still worth looking at what is most effective at supporting Ukraine, and what was less useful.
    According to the report, Rishi wants to know “what we’ve put in, what we’ve got out”.
    Yes, and jolly right too. Sadly he hasn't applied the same admirable principle to his energy policy.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One problem with voluntary lockdown is what we saw time and again in the UK, given half an inch people were very quick to make full use of any relaxations, while always taking advantage of those until the very last second (remember all the people piling down the pubs on the night each night it was announced they would have to be closed).

    Basically by the time people really got scared during each wave it was already too late and it was well spread...people reacted when their WhatsApp groups starting pinging that yet another member had COVID, which is too late because you probably now have it too.

    After the initial lockdown, I think we need to have a set of rules that we just stuck with i.e. none of this moving between tiers / in and out of lockdowns.

    Questions around schools I think are the really valid things. Yes kids will have spread it among themselves, but all that disruption for 2 years have caused so much damage.

    We must never have any types of lockdowns ever again IMO. If vulnerable people want to isolate themselves, they can choose to do so.
    Indeed. And we are only now just beginning to see the damage they have done. To everything. From mental health to cancer care to kids educations to public finances to city centres to public services - and on and on

    I wonder what history will make of us, and this
    Kids education is the only one that could possibly be considered a greater cost than an extra 100-200k+ dead, which would have happened with no lockdown.

    Lockdown was the correct policy, though we should probably have not applied it to kids education.

    As for all this mental health complaining, whatever happened to having a bit of grit? Mental health can recover. People can't come back from the dead.
  • kle4 said:

    I've noticed that even when Messi has not played particularly well the headlines tend to be along the lines of 'Messi and Argentina through to next round', as if he was somehow separate from them, or that the real story is about his journey rather than that of the time. The surprising thing is if the reaction of his team mates is anything to go by, like when they one the Copa America, they see it in a similar way. Which is a contrast to some other big name players and their national teams.

    Messi has scored in every round, whether or not he is playing particularly well, and is leading scorer in this World Cup, as Gary Lineker was in 1986.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,337
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One problem with voluntary lockdown is what we saw time and again in the UK, given half an inch people were very quick to make full use of any relaxations, while always taking advantage of those until the very last second (remember all the people piling down the pubs on the night each night it was announced they would have to be closed).

    Basically by the time people really got scared during each wave it was already too late and it was well spread...people reacted when their WhatsApp groups starting pinging that yet another member had COVID, which is too late because you probably now have it too.

    After the initial lockdown, I think we need to have a set of rules that we just stuck with i.e. none of this moving between tiers / in and out of lockdowns.

    Questions around schools I think are the really valid things. Yes kids will have spread it among themselves, but all that disruption for 2 years have caused so much damage.

    We must never have any types of lockdowns ever again IMO. If vulnerable people want to isolate themselves, they can choose to do so.
    Indeed. And we are only now just beginning to see the damage they have done. To everything. From mental health to cancer care to kids educations to public finances to city centres to public services - and on and on

    I wonder what history will make of us, and this
    Kids education is the only one that could possibly be considered a greater cost than an extra 100-200k+ dead, which would have happened with no lockdown.

    Lockdown was the correct policy, though we should probably have not applied it to kids education.

    As for all this mental health complaining, whatever happened to having a bit of grit? Mental health can recover. People can't come back from the dead.
    I’m guessing you are one of those introverts with a proper house and garden and family at hand. Like so many of the lockdown fans

    The psychological damage wrought by lockdown is enormous
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,337
    That is one of the great World Cup goals
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    This is all very well but how many of these players would perform on a cold, wet Tuesday night at Stoke, eh? Eh?

    Many of them do! They play in the English Leagues.
    Hopefully Mac Allister goes on a week long bender and isn’t available for Brighton on New Year’s eve.
  • IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
    I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
    Eadric went to Wales.
    I believe Eadric went to Penarth in Wales because he was loaned a luxury apartment by a millionaire friend who was grateful that Eadric forewarned him
    about Covid. He also fled before the first UK lockdown and broke no rules

    AIUI
    He was a real twat, posting incessantly about his holiday while the rest of us were following the rules. This site is better for his absence.
    Quite impressive, however, to be loaned an award winning luxury apartment (complete with sauna) because your Covid predictions enabled a businessman to save £100,000s
    No, seriously, it wasn’t.

    He was an utter sh*t, completely oblivious as to the impact of the lockdown on the majority of honest folk.

    So good riddance.
    Which takes us back to the original header. Cutting corners to advantage
    oneself and ones mates at the expense of everyone else.

    As for whether Lockdowns 2 and 3 were avoidable... They probably were. Other parts of Europe got away without the hardcore lockdown the UK had. But in large part that was by not letting the damn thing get as out of hand in the first place. The UK went stupid in December and January, leading to the rapid collapse of Christmas 2020 and the misery of January to March 2021.
    The comments on Europe not having hard lockdowns are totally at odds with the truth.
    Not to the degree the UK did;

    https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-lockdowns/

  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited December 2022
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One problem with voluntary lockdown is what we saw time and again in the UK, given half an inch people were very quick to make full use of any relaxations, while always taking advantage of those until the very last second (remember all the people piling down the pubs on the night each night it was announced they would have to be closed).

    Basically by the time people really got scared during each wave it was already too late and it was well spread...people reacted when their WhatsApp groups starting pinging that yet another member had COVID, which is too late because you probably now have it too.

    After the initial lockdown, I think we need to have a set of rules that we just stuck with i.e. none of this moving between tiers / in and out of lockdowns.

    Questions around schools I think are the really valid things. Yes kids will have spread it among themselves, but all that disruption for 2 years have caused so much damage.

    We must never have any types of lockdowns ever again IMO. If vulnerable people want to isolate themselves, they can choose to do so.
    Indeed. And we are only now just beginning to see the damage they have done. To everything. From mental health to cancer care to kids educations to public finances to city centres to public services - and on and on

    I wonder what history will make of us, and this
    Kids education is the only one that could possibly be considered a greater cost than an extra 100-200k+ dead, which would have happened with no lockdown.

    Lockdown was the correct policy, though we should probably have not applied it to kids education.

    As for all this mental health complaining, whatever happened to having a bit of grit? Mental health can recover. People can't come back from the dead.
    Next time, if it's "only" at the same supposed severity, and assuming it has the same profile for the different age groups - and what a stupid pair of assumptions they would be, but let's run with them - what's your plan for stopping transmission in schools then? Tie all the pupils to tiger chairs à la chinoise?

    You seem to be missing the massive mental health problem in society that would be present even without Covid. It's not a matter of the body psychologic getting ill for a while until it puts a jumper on and develops some "grit". It's a matter of the forcible giving out of anti-treatment in a rapidly growing and worsening mental asylum.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One problem with voluntary lockdown is what we saw time and again in the UK, given half an inch people were very quick to make full use of any relaxations, while always taking advantage of those until the very last second (remember all the people piling down the pubs on the night each night it was announced they would have to be closed).

    Basically by the time people really got scared during each wave it was already too late and it was well spread...people reacted when their WhatsApp groups starting pinging that yet another member had COVID, which is too late because you probably now have it too.

    After the initial lockdown, I think we need to have a set of rules that we just stuck with i.e. none of this moving between tiers / in and out of lockdowns.

    Questions around schools I think are the really valid things. Yes kids will have spread it among themselves, but all that disruption for 2 years have caused so much damage.

    We must never have any types of lockdowns ever again IMO. If vulnerable people want to isolate themselves, they can choose to do so.
    Indeed. And we are only now just beginning to see the damage they have done. To everything. From mental health to cancer care to kids educations to public finances to city centres to public services - and on and on

    I wonder what history will make of us, and this
    Kids education is the only one that could possibly be considered a greater cost than an extra 100-200k+ dead, which would have happened with no lockdown.

    Lockdown was the correct policy, though we should probably have not applied it to kids education.

    As for all this mental health complaining, whatever happened to having a bit of grit? Mental health can recover. People can't come back from the dead.
    I’m guessing you are one of those introverts with a proper house and garden and family at hand. Like so many of the lockdown fans

    The psychological damage wrought by lockdown is enormous
    ‘Family at hand’ was a major contributor to my own psychological damage tbh! Trying to work while also educating two recalcitrant kids fighting like cats in a sack for weeks on end was horrible.

    Grit was neither here nor there.
  • I am not sure why the PB consensus seems to be that we should no longer even subject our foreign policy toward Ukraine to any form of cost/benefit analysis. It would be a colossal dereliction of duty on the part of the Government not to analyse this. If the reason is humanitarian, can anyone tell me why it's perfectly acceptable to leave Afghans to the tender mercies of the Taliban?

    There’s no point because the strategic costs of Russia winning a so horrendous that it is a waste of time analysing. We are all in.
    How do you work that one out? Russian 'victory' even over the entirety of Ukraine would mean possession for Russia of a rebellious, resentful colony with a population that largely detests it. It would be a deeply unfortunate outcome but not one where I can see any unthinkable strategic cost to UK interests.
    Do you think the Russians would stop there?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    TimS said:

    0.2gw of solar power across the whole UK at midday today tells you just what a revolting day this is.

    Not enough volting going on?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,660
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One problem with voluntary lockdown is what we saw time and again in the UK, given half an inch people were very quick to make full use of any relaxations, while always taking advantage of those until the very last second (remember all the people piling down the pubs on the night each night it was announced they would have to be closed).

    Basically by the time people really got scared during each wave it was already too late and it was well spread...people reacted when their WhatsApp groups starting pinging that yet another member had COVID, which is too late because you probably now have it too.

    After the initial lockdown, I think we need to have a set of rules that we just stuck with i.e. none of this moving between tiers / in and out of lockdowns.

    Questions around schools I think are the really valid things. Yes kids will have spread it among themselves, but all that disruption for 2 years have caused so much damage.

    We must never have any types of lockdowns ever again IMO. If vulnerable people want to isolate themselves, they can choose to do so.
    Indeed. And we are only now just beginning to see the damage they have done. To everything. From mental health to cancer care to kids educations to public finances to city centres to public services - and on and on

    I wonder what history will make of us, and this
    Kids education is the only one that could possibly be considered a greater cost than an extra 100-200k+ dead, which would have happened with no lockdown.

    Lockdown was the correct policy, though we should probably have not applied it to kids education.

    As for all this mental health complaining, whatever happened to having a bit of grit? Mental health can recover. People can't come back from the dead.
    There is more to mental health prevention and treatment than telling people to buck their ideas up and show some grit 🙄

    We do need to realise though that a lot of the adverse social, economic and educational damage was because of the disease itself, not the lockdown policy. Even more so for the medical impact. The Glenfield ICU couldn't have continued planned cardiac surgery when filled 3 times over with covid patients, all of which were under 70.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    New - Barclay expected to write to RCN today urging fresh talks aimed at ending nurses’ strike - next strike due on Tues

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/dec/18/steve-barclay-expected-urge-fresh-talks-ending-nurses-strike?CMP=share_btn_tw
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited December 2022
    Graham Potter is widely credited with the huge improvement / development of MacAllister.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A Reckoning for Covid is coming

    I would love to see Covid get a reckoning.
    Is that what you meant?
    The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing

    An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it

    But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
    You said we’d all forget it though.
    And I think you were right.
    I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is

    But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge

    Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are

    Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
    Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins

    The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
    Musk is a lunatic though.
    And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.

    I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
    Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
    What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
    Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
    I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
    Eadric went to Wales.
    I believe Eadric went to Penarth in Wales because he was loaned a luxury apartment by a millionaire friend who was grateful that Eadric forewarned him
    about Covid. He also fled before the first UK lockdown and broke no rules

    AIUI
    He was a real twat, posting incessantly about his holiday while the rest of us were following the rules. This site is better for his absence.
    Quite impressive, however, to be loaned an award winning luxury apartment (complete with sauna) because your Covid predictions enabled a businessman to save £100,000s
    No, seriously, it wasn’t.

    He was an utter sh*t, completely oblivious as to the impact of the lockdown on the majority of honest folk.

    So good riddance.
    Which takes us back to the original header. Cutting corners to advantage
    oneself and ones mates at the expense of everyone else.

    As for whether Lockdowns 2 and 3 were avoidable... They probably were. Other parts of Europe got away without the hardcore lockdown the UK had. But in large part that was by not letting the damn thing get as out of hand in the first place. The UK went stupid in December and January, leading to the rapid collapse of Christmas 2020 and the misery of January to March 2021.
    The comments on Europe not having hard lockdowns are totally at odds with the truth.
    Not to the degree the UK did;

    https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-lockdowns/

    The differences were minor and irrelevant to the shift which was international. People hold Sweden up as an example too, whereas the only real difference is that Swedish society is such that most people there will slavishly do what the state asks them to do whereas elsewhere they would have to be told.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,699
    Lots of empty seats for the so-called 'greatest world cup ever'
  • Have half the crowd gone home?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I’m a Markle skeptic, but Jeremy Clarkson’s despicable comments in the Sun have somehow pushed me into Camp Meghan.

    Much of the article was spot on, she and her husband have spent the last week whinging like ungrateful brats from their California mansion for Netflix millions trashing the family that made them and even the British public.

    They even had the audacity to mock the Kensington and Chelsea house they were gifted by the Queen

    Yes we always had unimpeachable royals before an American with the wrong skin tone turned up. And I bet she didn't vote Trump!

    I believe the biggest scandal is Markle's unprovoked attack on the Daily Mail and the Sun. Two of Britain's greatest bastions of truth.

    I'm being snarky. If she and Harry brought the whole sorry edifice down, I'd doff my cap to 'em.
    They won’t for starters both are almost as unpopular as Prince Andrew with the British public now.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/12/09/after-prince-andrew-prince-harry-and-meghan-markle

    Plus without their royal links they are just a dim ex captain with poor A levels and a C- list actress

    You are comparing the alleged villainy of a man accused of sex offences with a couple who have a beef with the Daily Mail and are critical of the palace for not being supportive.

    Anyway what's his educational qualifications got to do with anything? And correct me if I am wrong but this mere Captain saw more hostile fire than you did in Afghanistan.
    Really? I’d be very surprised if Harry was let anywhere near the enemy
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One problem with voluntary lockdown is what we saw time and again in the UK, given half an inch people were very quick to make full use of any relaxations, while always taking advantage of those until the very last second (remember all the people piling down the pubs on the night each night it was announced they would have to be closed).

    Basically by the time people really got scared during each wave it was already too late and it was well spread...people reacted when their WhatsApp groups starting pinging that yet another member had COVID, which is too late because you probably now have it too.

    After the initial lockdown, I think we need to have a set of rules that we just stuck with i.e. none of this moving between tiers / in and out of lockdowns.

    Questions around schools I think are the really valid things. Yes kids will have spread it among themselves, but all that disruption for 2 years have caused so much damage.

    We must never have any types of lockdowns ever again IMO. If vulnerable people want to isolate themselves, they can choose to do so.
    Indeed. And we are only now just beginning to see the damage they have done. To everything. From mental health to cancer care to kids educations to public finances to city centres to public services - and on and on

    I wonder what history will make of us, and this
    Kids education is the only one that could possibly be considered a greater cost than an extra 100-200k+ dead, which would have happened with no lockdown.

    Lockdown was the correct policy, though we should probably have not applied it to kids education.

    As for all this mental health complaining, whatever happened to having a bit of grit? Mental health can recover. People can't come back from the dead.
    And you're talking about grit in the same breath as cheerleading the state.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Looks like I cashed out of my france outright bet at the right time…
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I’m a Markle skeptic, but Jeremy Clarkson’s despicable comments in the Sun have somehow pushed me into Camp Meghan.

    Much of the article was spot on, she and her husband have spent the last week whinging like ungrateful brats from their California mansion for Netflix millions trashing the family that made them and even the British public.

    They even had the audacity to mock the Kensington and Chelsea house they were gifted by the Queen

    Yes we always had unimpeachable royals before an American with the wrong skin tone turned up. And I bet she didn't vote Trump!

    I believe the biggest scandal is Markle's unprovoked attack on the Daily Mail and the Sun. Two of Britain's greatest bastions of truth.

    I'm being snarky. If she and Harry brought the whole sorry edifice down, I'd doff my cap to 'em.
    They won’t for starters both are almost as unpopular as Prince Andrew with the British public now.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/12/09/after-prince-andrew-prince-harry-and-meghan-markle

    Plus without their royal links they are just a dim ex captain with poor A levels and a C- list actress

    You are comparing the alleged villainy of a man accused of sex offences with a couple who have a beef with the Daily Mail and are critical of the palace for not being supportive.

    Anyway what's his educational qualifications got to do with anything? And correct me if I am wrong but this mere Captain saw more hostile fire than you did in Afghanistan.
    Has Andrew ever been accused of sex offences? I mean other than by an obvious (and successful) gold digger?
    No smoke, no payout?
    The problem is if you payout one gold digger on the grounds of reputational damage you just encourage the next one…
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    ping said:

    Looks like I cashed out of my france outright bet at the right time…

    I looked at it, and let it ride...
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    DJ41 said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One problem with voluntary lockdown is what we saw time and again in the UK, given half an inch people were very quick to make full use of any relaxations, while always taking advantage of those until the very last second (remember all the people piling down the pubs on the night each night it was announced they would have to be closed).

    Basically by the time people really got scared during each wave it was already too late and it was well spread...people reacted when their WhatsApp groups starting pinging that yet another member had COVID, which is too late because you probably now have it too.

    After the initial lockdown, I think we need to have a set of rules that we just stuck with i.e. none of this moving between tiers / in and out of lockdowns.

    Questions around schools I think are the really valid things. Yes kids will have spread it among themselves, but all that disruption for 2 years have caused so much damage.

    We must never have any types of lockdowns ever again IMO. If vulnerable people want to isolate themselves, they can choose to do so.
    Indeed. And we are only now just beginning to see the damage they have done. To everything. From mental health to cancer care to kids educations to public finances to city centres to public services - and on and on

    I wonder what history will make of us, and this
    Kids education is the only one that could possibly be considered a greater cost than an extra 100-200k+ dead, which would have happened with no lockdown.

    Lockdown was the correct policy, though we should probably have not applied it to kids education.

    As for all this mental health complaining, whatever happened to having a bit of grit? Mental health can recover. People can't come back from the dead.
    And you're talking about grit in the same breath as cheerleading the state.
    Your point doesn't make any sense at all.
  • Even Mbappe looks like he is dragging a 10 tonne truck behind him.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,660
    ping said:

    Looks like I cashed out of my france outright bet at the right time…

    Yes, looks like I should have, but didn't.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    DJ41 said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One problem with voluntary lockdown is what we saw time and again in the UK, given half an inch people were very quick to make full use of any relaxations, while always taking advantage of those until the very last second (remember all the people piling down the pubs on the night each night it was announced they would have to be closed).

    Basically by the time people really got scared during each wave it was already too late and it was well spread...people reacted when their WhatsApp groups starting pinging that yet another member had COVID, which is too late because you probably now have it too.

    After the initial lockdown, I think we need to have a set of rules that we just stuck with i.e. none of this moving between tiers / in and out of lockdowns.

    Questions around schools I think are the really valid things. Yes kids will have spread it among themselves, but all that disruption for 2 years have caused so much damage.

    We must never have any types of lockdowns ever again IMO. If vulnerable people want to isolate themselves, they can choose to do so.
    Indeed. And we are only now just beginning to see the damage they have done. To everything. From mental health to cancer care to kids educations to public finances to city centres to public services - and on and on

    I wonder what history will make of us, and this
    Kids education is the only one that could possibly be considered a greater cost than an extra 100-200k+ dead, which would have happened with no lockdown.

    Lockdown was the correct policy, though we should probably have not applied it to kids education.

    As for all this mental health complaining, whatever happened to having a bit of grit? Mental health can recover. People can't come back from the dead.
    Next time, if it's "only" at the same supposed severity, and assuming it has the same profile for the different age groups - and what a stupid pair of assumptions they would be, but let's run with them - what's your plan for stopping transmission in schools then? Tie all the pupils to tiger chairs à la chinoise?

    You seem to be missing the massive mental health problem in society that would be present even without Covid. It's not a matter of the body psychologic getting ill for a while until it puts a jumper on and develops some "grit". It's a matter of the forcible giving out of anti-treatment in a rapidly growing and worsening mental asylum.
    Sorry, your English as a second language attempts are losing the meaning.
This discussion has been closed.