I am not sure why the PB consensus seems to be that we should no longer even subject our foreign policy toward Ukraine to any form of cost/benefit analysis. It would be a colossal dereliction of duty on the part of the Government not to analyse this. If the reason is humanitarian, can anyone tell me why it's perfectly acceptable to leave Afghans to the tender mercies of the Taliban?
I think you've misrepresented the reaction - there were multiple comments pointing out an issue with it was not any form analysis in itself, but that some of the benefits (and you would probably claim, negatives) are not tangible or measurable in a simple way. So if one relies on some kind of spreadsheet accounting of it you get the kind of bullcrap like criticising the cost of a missle versus the cost of what it blew up (even though what they hit varies and some will be more or less the cost of the missle, before you even get to the intangible analysis of the benefits of helping prevent invasion).
As for the Afghan question, life is unfair. But that's nothing more than an argument to never do anything anywhere ever, because states are not consistently moral, that if we cannot or do not do everything we should not do anything.
Missiles do cost money. Of course the value of the ordinance sent to Ukraine needs at least to be monitored - presumably most of it requires replacing, or its absence reduces the UK's military capability.
Life in this instance is not simply unfair, it is distorted beyond farce. We leave Afghanistan because it's realpolitik 'sorry chaps we can't be everywhere', but Ukraine gets a blank cheque and grannies can fucking freeze.
Afghanistan was a civil war, where the existing government clearly did not have the support of the people.
Ukraine was invaded by neighbour.
That you see the two situations as analogous is bizarre.
USA invades Afghanistan. Britain supports USA.
Russia invades Ukraine. Britain supports Ukraine.
But somewhere there must be a congruity. And it's not to do with Wall Street and Washington and Whitehall prioritising shaking hands in all parts of the world with governments that enjoy the "support of the people". From 2014 the USA and Britain were arming the Kiev government to carry out war against much of the population in the Donbas. That was before "Servant of the People" even came on Ukrainian TV screens (in the Russian language - how strange, given that there's nothing like a civil war there and it's wholly a matter of one country suddenly attacking its neighbour, right?).
Got to wonder whether "the US were asked into Afghanistan by a movement that had the support of the Afghan people against an illegitimate government" will become the "correct" slant. Might as well say the same bullsh*t as was said regarding Vietnam even though "Vietnam Syndrome" suddenly went down the memory hole on 11 Sep 2001 and Bush then announced the USA was at war and would hammer Afghanistan.
I am not sure why the PB consensus seems to be that we should no longer even subject our foreign policy toward Ukraine to any form of cost/benefit analysis. It would be a colossal dereliction of duty on the part of the Government not to analyse this. If the reason is humanitarian, can anyone tell me why it's perfectly acceptable to leave Afghans to the tender mercies of the Taliban?
I think you've misrepresented the reaction - there were multiple comments pointing out an issue with it was not any form analysis in itself, but that some of the benefits (and you would probably claim, negatives) are not tangible or measurable in a simple way. So if one relies on some kind of spreadsheet accounting of it you get the kind of bullcrap like criticising the cost of a missle versus the cost of what it blew up (even though what they hit varies and some will be more or less the cost of the missle, before you even get to the intangible analysis of the benefits of helping prevent invasion).
As for the Afghan question, life is unfair. But that's nothing more than an argument to never do anything anywhere ever, because states are not consistently moral, that if we cannot or do not do everything we should not do anything.
Missiles do cost money. Of course the value of the ordinance sent to Ukraine needs at least to be monitored - presumably most of it requires replacing, or its absence reduces the UK's military capability.
Life in this instance is not simply unfair, it is distorted beyond farce. We leave Afghanistan because it's realpolitik 'sorry chaps we can't be everywhere', but Ukraine gets a blank cheque and grannies can fucking freeze.
Ukraine is different because unchecked Russia is a threat to all of europe. Afghanistan is not. If Russia is not stopped in ukraine then finland, estonia, poland etc will be next on the Putin tour list. Ukraine matters to us in a realpolitik way that frankly afghanistan does not. It was a shit hole before we went there, it was a shit hole while we were there and now its a shit hole since we left.
Between its terrorism, its massive opium harvests, and its strategic position at the centre of Asia, actually Afghanistan is a threat if ruled by, say, nutters like the Taliban.
I wasn't impressed with the decision to invade Afghanistan and it ended in even more of a debacle than I expected, but there was an arguable case that there was a NATO strategic interest at play and a direct threat to be countered.
It was much harder to make that case for Iraq. And invading Iraq led people to overlook Afghanistan.
Equally, it's still easier to make the case for Ukraine.
I’m a Markle skeptic, but Jeremy Clarkson’s despicable comments in the Sun have somehow pushed me into Camp Meghan.
Much of the article was spot on, she and her husband have spent the last week whinging like ungrateful brats from their California mansion for Netflix millions trashing the family that made them and even the British public.
They even had the audacity to mock the Kensington and Chelsea house they were gifted by the Queen
Yes we always had unimpeachable royals before an American with the wrong skin tone turned up. And I bet she didn't vote Trump!
I believe the biggest scandal is Markle's unprovoked attack on the Daily Mail and the Sun. Two of Britain's greatest bastions of truth.
I'm being snarky. If she and Harry brought the whole sorry edifice down, I'd doff my cap to 'em.
They won’t for starters both are almost as unpopular as Prince Andrew with the British public now.
Plus without their royal links they are just a dim ex captain with poor A levels and a C- list actress
You are comparing the alleged villainy of a man accused of sex offences with a couple who have a beef with the Daily Mail and are critical of the palace for not being supportive.
Anyway what's his educational qualifications got to do with anything? And correct me if I am wrong but this mere Captain saw more hostile fire than you did in Afghanistan.
I am not sure why the PB consensus seems to be that we should no longer even subject our foreign policy toward Ukraine to any form of cost/benefit analysis. It would be a colossal dereliction of duty on the part of the Government not to analyse this. If the reason is humanitarian, can anyone tell me why it's perfectly acceptable to leave Afghans to the tender mercies of the Taliban?
I think you've misrepresented the reaction - there were multiple comments pointing out an issue with it was not any form analysis in itself, but that some of the benefits (and you would probably claim, negatives) are not tangible or measurable in a simple way. So if one relies on some kind of spreadsheet accounting of it you get the kind of bullcrap like criticising the cost of a missle versus the cost of what it blew up (even though what they hit varies and some will be more or less the cost of the missle, before you even get to the intangible analysis of the benefits of helping prevent invasion).
As for the Afghan question, life is unfair. But that's nothing more than an argument to never do anything anywhere ever, because states are not consistently moral, that if we cannot or do not do everything we should not do anything.
Missiles do cost money. Of course the value of the ordinance sent to Ukraine needs at least to be monitored - presumably most of it requires replacing, or its absence reduces the UK's military capability.
Life in this instance is not simply unfair, it is distorted beyond farce. We leave Afghanistan because it's realpolitik 'sorry chaps we can't be everywhere', but Ukraine gets a blank cheque and grannies can fucking freeze.
Ukraine is different because unchecked Russia is a threat to all of europe. Afghanistan is not. If Russia is not stopped in ukraine then finland, estonia, poland etc will be next on the Putin tour list. Ukraine matters to us in a realpolitik way that frankly afghanistan does not. It was a shit hole before we went there, it was a shit hole while we were there and now its a shit hole since we left.
Between its terrorism, its massive opium harvests, and its strategic position at the centre of Asia, actually Afghanistan is a threat if ruled by, say, nutters like the Taliban.
I wasn't impressed with the decision to invade Afghanistan and it ended in even more of a debacle than I expected, but there was an arguable case that there was a NATO strategic interest at play and a direct threat to be countered.
It was much harder to make that case for Iraq. And invading Iraq led people to overlook Afghanistan.
Equally, it's still easier to make the case for Ukraine.
Nobody has ever conquered Afghanistan. What surprised me was not the defeat of the USA and its helpers but how long the Taliban victory took.
If you think there's an arguable case that there was a NATO strategic interest in Afghanistan, why not assert the existence of a similarly arguable case for a Russian strategic interest in Poland? After all, Poland actually borders Russia, whereas Afghanistan is a long way from the USA (and the North Atlantic).
I’m a Markle skeptic, but Jeremy Clarkson’s despicable comments in the Sun have somehow pushed me into Camp Meghan.
Much of the article was spot on, she and her husband have spent the last week whinging like ungrateful brats from their California mansion for Netflix millions trashing the family that made them and even the British public.
They even had the audacity to mock the Kensington and Chelsea house they were gifted by the Queen
Yes we always had unimpeachable royals before an American with the wrong skin tone turned up. And I bet she didn't vote Trump!
I believe the biggest scandal is Markle's unprovoked attack on the Daily Mail and the Sun. Two of Britain's greatest bastions of truth.
I'm being snarky. If she and Harry brought the whole sorry edifice down, I'd doff my cap to 'em.
They won’t for starters both are almost as unpopular as Prince Andrew with the British public now.
Plus without their royal links they are just a dim ex captain with poor A levels and a C- list actress
You are comparing the alleged villainy of a man accused of sex offences with a couple who have a beef with the Daily Mail and are critical of the palace for not being supportive.
Anyway what's his educational qualifications got to do with anything? And correct me if I am wrong but this mere Captain saw more hostile fire than you did in Afghanistan.
Has Andrew ever been accused of sex offences? I mean other than by an obvious (and successful) gold digger?
It seems the people who worry most about this kind of change are people who don’t actually live in central London. For them it looks and feels different and exotic. For Londoners it’s just normal life.
How people respond to the exoticism and difference of London - which has always been there regardless of migration, in the bigness of things, the noise, the bustle - does seem to vary. Some find it exciting and want more of it. Others feel panicked and disoriented and want to get out.
I think the latter group tend to focus on the obvious things that look different: sometimes that’s the traffic and pollution, sometimes it’s the multi-ethnic look of the place.
I’ve lived in central or central-ish London most of my life. I love the city, despite its flaws. I love the bustle and exoticism. I hate winter
The speed of demographic change is bewildering and fairly new. The stats don’t lie. London has gone from a majority white British city to a minority white British city in 20 years, and the trend is accelerating, if anything
I think you wrote on here once that you moved to London in 1981. It was about 80% white British at that time. (90% in 1971 and 70% in 1991).
So London has gone from 80% white British to 37% white British in my time here. My eyes do not deceive
That’s a huge change, and unprecedented in human history. I cannot think of an equivalent
Serious question - London has seen wave after wave of foreign immigration since the 1800s.
There were plenty of characters moaning about Eastern European Jewry arriving in large numbers.
The Irish and Catholics more widely were widely disliked - the Irish Cultural Centre near you in Camden, and the Irish pubs emerged because they weren't welcomed in normal pubs originally.
Similarly for Soho's China town.
Is the difference the colour of the skin - or the longer delay it is taking for them to assimilate and/or become Loyal Brits like the Orthodox communities in North London?
I really don't want to go down the Muslim Vs good Ukrainian and Hongkonger immigrant rabbit hole.
Many groups assimilate quite rapidly.
There was a rather whiny article in the Guardian a while back talking of Black Flight from London. First generation immigrants from Africa l, mainly. AKA moving to large houses out in the sticks for better schools, green fields… just like all the other immigrants on the “train” have done, historically. Apparently (HORROR!) they were then tending to mix with the locals. Yes, mix in *that* sense….
It was one of those articles where you transpose black and white and it reads very very badly.
A small number of groups are not especially well adapted, culturally, to using education to move up the social ladder.
No, I've noticed that with Guardian readers myself.
LOL, yes.
Sometime ago, there was a despairing article from a minor hack there. Essentially he felt that he and his family were slipping away from being middle class. All he and his wife could afford was an ex council property on a grotty estate in London. His daughter was attending the local school, where education was viewed negatively by the inmates….
What was trivially obvious was that he needed to move out of London. Both he and his wife were writers. No need to commute, even pre pandemic. And if you go somewhere not computable, but can get to London if you need to for meetings etc… well, back then he could have picked up a nice country cottage in a pleasant village for the price of his inner city dive… given what he stated about income and assets, IIRC, he could have been mortgage free.
I’m a Markle skeptic, but Jeremy Clarkson’s despicable comments in the Sun have somehow pushed me into Camp Meghan.
Much of the article was spot on, she and her husband have spent the last week whinging like ungrateful brats from their California mansion for Netflix millions trashing the family that made them and even the British public.
They even had the audacity to mock the Kensington and Chelsea house they were gifted by the Queen
Yes we always had unimpeachable royals before an American with the wrong skin tone turned up. And I bet she didn't vote Trump!
I believe the biggest scandal is Markle's unprovoked attack on the Daily Mail and the Sun. Two of Britain's greatest bastions of truth.
I'm being snarky. If she and Harry brought the whole sorry edifice down, I'd doff my cap to 'em.
They won’t for starters both are almost as unpopular as Prince Andrew with the British public now.
Plus without their royal links they are just a dim ex captain with poor A levels and a C- list actress
You are comparing the alleged villainy of a man accused of sex offences with a couple who have a beef with the Daily Mail and are critical of the palace for not being supportive.
Anyway what's his educational qualifications got to do with anything? And correct me if I am wrong but this mere Captain saw more hostile fire than you did in Afghanistan.
Has Andrew ever been accused of sex offences? I mean other than by an obvious (and successful) gold digger?
I’m a Markle skeptic, but Jeremy Clarkson’s despicable comments in the Sun have somehow pushed me into Camp Meghan.
Much of the article was spot on, she and her husband have spent the last week whinging like ungrateful brats from their California mansion for Netflix millions trashing the family that made them and even the British public.
Maybe but his comments in question were vile. Utterly awful. Nazi-era rhetoric.
Rubbish, indeed in the Middle Ages the Duke and Duchess could well have been pelted with rotten veg by the mob in the streets for their complete disrespect for the King and Crown. They are just lucky to live in the modern age and California
I’m sad that you’re willing to defend the vile comments. You appear to be a person of very low moral character.
Outside of metropolitan left liberals like you, most Brits would agree with Clarkson
I would hope not.
Clarkson expresses a wish to see Meghan publicly and sexually humiliated.
He believes she should be stripped naked and pelted with faeces.
As I said, it’s kind of Nazi-era rhetoric.
Do you think he really wants to see that?
Clarkson is a creation in the style of the pub landlord, Al Murray. His comments have worked because people are talking about Clarkson.
PB is like doing a jigsaw - a pointless way to pass the time until you die!
It seems the people who worry most about this kind of change are people who don’t actually live in central London. For them it looks and feels different and exotic. For Londoners it’s just normal life.
How people respond to the exoticism and difference of London - which has always been there regardless of migration, in the bigness of things, the noise, the bustle - does seem to vary. Some find it exciting and want more of it. Others feel panicked and disoriented and want to get out.
I think the latter group tend to focus on the obvious things that look different: sometimes that’s the traffic and pollution, sometimes it’s the multi-ethnic look of the place.
I’ve lived in central or central-ish London most of my life. I love the city, despite its flaws. I love the bustle and exoticism. I hate winter
The speed of demographic change is bewildering and fairly new. The stats don’t lie. London has gone from a majority white British city to a minority white British city in 20 years, and the trend is accelerating, if anything
It seems the people who worry most about this kind of change are people who don’t actually live in central London. For them it looks and feels different and exotic. For Londoners it’s just normal life.
How people respond to the exoticism and difference of London - which has always been there regardless of migration, in the bigness of things, the noise, the bustle - does seem to vary. Some find it exciting and want more of it. Others feel panicked and disoriented and want to get out.
I think the latter group tend to focus on the obvious things that look different: sometimes that’s the traffic and pollution, sometimes it’s the multi-ethnic look of the place.
I’ve lived in central or central-ish London most of my life. I love the city, despite its flaws. I love the bustle and exoticism. I hate winter
The speed of demographic change is bewildering and fairly new. The stats don’t lie. London has gone from a majority white British city to a minority white British city in 20 years, and the trend is accelerating, if anything
I think there is some what of a disconnect between those that live in places like London & those who live in towns and villages elsewhere in terms of ethic makeup of the UK. I think its pretty clear that media / entertainment bods who primarily exist in London see a very multi-ethic UK every day and overstate in their minds the proportions country wide, where as vast proportions elsewhere don't experience this unless they head into a place like London and it can be quite a shock (especially the change over their lifetime).
Is London unique or are all major western cities now like this, with easy global travel opening up the world over the past 50 years?
It's definitely not just London in my experience - Paris/Amsterdam/Hamburg all the same. And the major American cities it's been like that my entire life.
America is obviously different because a big part of the multi-ethnic demographic was due to the great Migration from the South.
Its also not true for all US major cities, places like Seattle / Portland were (and still are) majority white and the non-white demographic is majority Asian. The African-American demographic is very small.
Yes, that rings true. I have a gaming friend from SF who moved up to rural Oregon with her partner and as a mixed-race couple they get the staring and 'where are you really from' type questions a lot still.
When I introduced my then finance to my work colleagues, the comments were interesting.
The South African guy talked with her about the little towns they both knew.
The girl from Gloucester said that she was very beautiful.
The American said - “You never said she was Black!?!!”
This doesn't surprise me in the least, I must say. I've noticed the BBC's Brexit coverage being decidedly "odd" and deliberately muted, for a while now.
The underlying impression is fear of covering it, and fear of the knock-on political effects of that.
I am not sure why the PB consensus seems to be that we should no longer even subject our foreign policy toward Ukraine to any form of cost/benefit analysis. It would be a colossal dereliction of duty on the part of the Government not to analyse this. If the reason is humanitarian, can anyone tell me why it's perfectly acceptable to leave Afghans to the tender mercies of the Taliban?
I think you've misrepresented the reaction - there were multiple comments pointing out an issue with it was not any form analysis in itself, but that some of the benefits (and you would probably claim, negatives) are not tangible or measurable in a simple way. So if one relies on some kind of spreadsheet accounting of it you get the kind of bullcrap like criticising the cost of a missle versus the cost of what it blew up (even though what they hit varies and some will be more or less the cost of the missle, before you even get to the intangible analysis of the benefits of helping prevent invasion).
As for the Afghan question, life is unfair. But that's nothing more than an argument to never do anything anywhere ever, because states are not consistently moral, that if we cannot or do not do everything we should not do anything.
Missiles do cost money. Of course the value of the ordinance sent to Ukraine needs at least to be monitored - presumably most of it requires replacing, or its absence reduces the UK's military capability.
Life in this instance is not simply unfair, it is distorted beyond farce. We leave Afghanistan because it's realpolitik 'sorry chaps we can't be everywhere', but Ukraine gets a blank cheque and grannies can fucking freeze.
Ukraine is different because unchecked Russia is a threat to all of europe. Afghanistan is not. If Russia is not stopped in ukraine then finland, estonia, poland etc will be next on the Putin tour list. Ukraine matters to us in a realpolitik way that frankly afghanistan does not. It was a shit hole before we went there, it was a shit hole while we were there and now its a shit hole since we left.
Between its terrorism, its massive opium harvests, and its strategic position at the centre of Asia, actually Afghanistan is a threat if ruled by, say, nutters like the Taliban.
I wasn't impressed with the decision to invade Afghanistan and it ended in even more of a debacle than I expected, but there was an arguable case that there was a NATO strategic interest at play and a direct threat to be countered.
It was much harder to make that case for Iraq. And invading Iraq led people to overlook Afghanistan.
Equally, it's still easier to make the case for Ukraine.
Nobody has ever conquered Afghanistan. What surprised me was not the defeat of the USA and its helpers but how long the Taliban victory took.
If you think there's an arguable case that there was a NATO strategic interest in Afghanistan, why not assert the existence of a similarly arguable case for a Russian strategic interest in Poland? After all, Poland actually borders Russia, whereas Afghanistan is a long way from the USA (and the North Atlantic).
Poland has never invaded Russia or attacked its territory, you numpty. The Afghan government was complicit to at least some degree in 9/11.
Anyone who can't see there is a difference has clearly been overdosing on the Taliban's favourite and most profitable export.
This doesn't surprise me in the least, I must say. I've noticed the BBC's Brexit coverage being decidedly "odd" and deliberately muted, for a while now.
The underlying impression is fear of covering it, and fear of the knock-on political effects of that.
Giving the choice between being impartial and keeping the licence fee, there’s no contest.
I am not sure why the PB consensus seems to be that we should no longer even subject our foreign policy toward Ukraine to any form of cost/benefit analysis. It would be a colossal dereliction of duty on the part of the Government not to analyse this. If the reason is humanitarian, can anyone tell me why it's perfectly acceptable to leave Afghans to the tender mercies of the Taliban?
I think you've misrepresented the reaction - there were multiple comments pointing out an issue with it was not any form analysis in itself, but that some of the benefits (and you would probably claim, negatives) are not tangible or measurable in a simple way. So if one relies on some kind of spreadsheet accounting of it you get the kind of bullcrap like criticising the cost of a missle versus the cost of what it blew up (even though what they hit varies and some will be more or less the cost of the missle, before you even get to the intangible analysis of the benefits of helping prevent invasion).
As for the Afghan question, life is unfair. But that's nothing more than an argument to never do anything anywhere ever, because states are not consistently moral, that if we cannot or do not do everything we should not do anything.
Missiles do cost money. Of course the value of the ordinance sent to Ukraine needs at least to be monitored - presumably most of it requires replacing, or its absence reduces the UK's military capability.
Life in this instance is not simply unfair, it is distorted beyond farce. We leave Afghanistan because it's realpolitik 'sorry chaps we can't be everywhere', but Ukraine gets a blank cheque and grannies can fucking freeze.
Ukraine is different because unchecked Russia is a threat to all of europe. Afghanistan is not. If Russia is not stopped in ukraine then finland, estonia, poland etc will be next on the Putin tour list. Ukraine matters to us in a realpolitik way that frankly afghanistan does not. It was a shit hole before we went there, it was a shit hole while we were there and now its a shit hole since we left.
Between its terrorism, its massive opium harvests, and its strategic position at the centre of Asia, actually Afghanistan is a threat if ruled by, say, nutters like the Taliban.
I wasn't impressed with the decision to invade Afghanistan and it ended in even more of a debacle than I expected, but there was an arguable case that there was a NATO strategic interest at play and a direct threat to be countered.
It was much harder to make that case for Iraq. And invading Iraq led people to overlook Afghanistan.
Equally, it's still easier to make the case for Ukraine.
Nobody has ever conquered Afghanistan. What surprised me was not the defeat of the USA and its helpers but how long the Taliban victory took.
If you think there's an arguable case that there was a NATO strategic interest in Afghanistan, why not assert the existence of a similarly arguable case for a Russian strategic interest in Poland? After all, Poland actually borders Russia, whereas Afghanistan is a long way from the USA (and the North Atlantic).
Poland has never invaded Russia or attacked its territory, you numpty. The Afghan government was complicit to at least some degree in 9/11.
Anyone who can't see there is a difference has clearly been overdosing on the Taliban's favourite and most profitable export.
I am not sure why the PB consensus seems to be that we should no longer even subject our foreign policy toward Ukraine to any form of cost/benefit analysis. It would be a colossal dereliction of duty on the part of the Government not to analyse this. If the reason is humanitarian, can anyone tell me why it's perfectly acceptable to leave Afghans to the tender mercies of the Taliban?
I think you've misrepresented the reaction - there were multiple comments pointing out an issue with it was not any form analysis in itself, but that some of the benefits (and you would probably claim, negatives) are not tangible or measurable in a simple way. So if one relies on some kind of spreadsheet accounting of it you get the kind of bullcrap like criticising the cost of a missle versus the cost of what it blew up (even though what they hit varies and some will be more or less the cost of the missle, before you even get to the intangible analysis of the benefits of helping prevent invasion).
As for the Afghan question, life is unfair. But that's nothing more than an argument to never do anything anywhere ever, because states are not consistently moral, that if we cannot or do not do everything we should not do anything.
Missiles do cost money. Of course the value of the ordinance sent to Ukraine needs at least to be monitored - presumably most of it requires replacing, or its absence reduces the UK's military capability.
Life in this instance is not simply unfair, it is distorted beyond farce. We leave Afghanistan because it's realpolitik 'sorry chaps we can't be everywhere', but Ukraine gets a blank cheque and grannies can fucking freeze.
Afghanistan was a civil war, where the existing government clearly did not have the support of the people.
Ukraine was invaded by neighbour.
That you see the two situations as analogous is bizarre.
USA invades Afghanistan. Britain supports USA.
Russia invades Ukraine. Britain supports Ukraine.
But somewhere there must be a congruity. And it's not to do with Wall Street and Washington and Whitehall prioritising shaking hands in all parts of the world with governments that enjoy the "support of the people". From 2014 the USA and Britain were arming the Kiev government to carry out war against much of the population in the Donbas. That was before "Servant of the People" even came on Ukrainian TV screens (in the Russian language - how strange, given that there's nothing like a civil war there and it's wholly a matter of one country suddenly attacking its neighbour, right?).
Got to wonder whether "the US were asked into Afghanistan by a movement that had the support of the Afghan people against an illegitimate government" will become the "correct" slant. Might as well say the same bullsh*t as was said regarding Vietnam even though "Vietnam Syndrome" suddenly went down the memory hole on 11 Sep 2001 and Bush then announced the USA was at war and would hammer Afghanistan.
In 2014 (and before) Russia attacked Ukraine - both directly and via proxies.
The idea that speaking a language means that you are part of the country is interesting - are you in favour of Greater Germany? Or should France… absorb all the French speaking countries around it? It’s not as if Belgium is a real country, anyway…etc..,
I’m a Markle skeptic, but Jeremy Clarkson’s despicable comments in the Sun have somehow pushed me into Camp Meghan.
Much of the article was spot on, she and her husband have spent the last week whinging like ungrateful brats from their California mansion for Netflix millions trashing the family that made them and even the British public.
They even had the audacity to mock the Kensington and Chelsea house they were gifted by the Queen
Yes we always had unimpeachable royals before an American with the wrong skin tone turned up. And I bet she didn't vote Trump!
I believe the biggest scandal is Markle's unprovoked attack on the Daily Mail and the Sun. Two of Britain's greatest bastions of truth.
I'm being snarky. If she and Harry brought the whole sorry edifice down, I'd doff my cap to 'em.
They won’t for starters both are almost as unpopular as Prince Andrew with the British public now.
Plus without their royal links they are just a dim ex captain with poor A levels and a C- list actress
You are comparing the alleged villainy of a man accused of sex offences with a couple who have a beef with the Daily Mail and are critical of the palace for not being supportive.
Anyway what's his educational qualifications got to do with anything? And correct me if I am wrong but this mere Captain saw more hostile fire than you did in Afghanistan.
Has Andrew ever been accused of sex offences? I mean other than by an obvious (and successful) gold digger?
There are other things that could be investigated:
1) Oak National Academy. Why was £15 million in public money given to an organisation (Ark Academies Trust) that had no expertise in digital learning to essentially produce a series of poor quality videos that were not suitable for online learning but pushed as the solution to all our ills? Without competition or even looking around to see what was out there?
2) on the wider subject of procurement, why were Trusts in this area not permitted to negotiate their own hand sanitiser contracts, instead being ordered to accept a demonstrably inferior product at a considerably higher price?
3) Who paid for the wine at these illegal parties? If it was the government, then should individuals be under investigation not merely for breach of lockdown regs, but for misuse of public funds? If civil servants, why were they buying alcohol for unlawful purposes on government time?
That's even before we get on to recruitment of people who have no experience in the relevant fields to run major government offices without a process being followed. Harding, Spielman, Bingham (the fact she happened to do OK doesn't really address the question). You could even legitimately extend that to Simon Case.
The government absolutely stinks.
And, unfortunately, so did Labour.
The Augean Stables springs to mind.
Not disagreeing with most of that, but to say Kate Bingham got no experience....her career is literally VCing companies in biotech industry. Then being asked by the government to effectively VC vaccine development & also procurement isn't exactly no experience in revelant field territory. Also, she was just the head of the team that included genuine experts in scientific elements.
In that case, I withdraw that. I didn't realise she specialised in biotech. I just heard 'venture capitalist' and assumed the worst...
That’s because you are confusing real Venture Capitalism with the phoney kind.
The real one is where people back new ides and companies with actual, real money (in the US, home of this stuff, there are specific laws banning borrowing money for VC). This is done with the clear expectation that only a fraction of the investments will pan out.
The phoney version is… well look a Theranos. All the real VC outfits didn’t touch them with a barge pole. It was a bunch of rich rubes who thought they were VC that backed that turkey.
What we need in the U.K. is more real VC.
I think people also often confuse venture capitalism with private equity, with the later particularly in recent history seemingly becoming increasingly based upon models of asset stripping and making a quick buck, rather than solely focused upon providing better management and capital to achieve expansion.
I don't recognise that pattern of activity by PE in my industry, professional services. It's all about accelerating sustainable growth in my experience, and I've been impressed by the quality and reasonableness (is that a word) of the PE people I deal with on pretty much a daily basis.
I guess it depends on the industry though - no tangible assets in professional services and if the staff get pissed off and leave, it's easy to lose money.
There are other things that could be investigated:
1) Oak National Academy. Why was £15 million in public money given to an organisation (Ark Academies Trust) that had no expertise in digital learning to essentially produce a series of poor quality videos that were not suitable for online learning but pushed as the solution to all our ills? Without competition or even looking around to see what was out there?
2) on the wider subject of procurement, why were Trusts in this area not permitted to negotiate their own hand sanitiser contracts, instead being ordered to accept a demonstrably inferior product at a considerably higher price?
3) Who paid for the wine at these illegal parties? If it was the government, then should individuals be under investigation not merely for breach of lockdown regs, but for misuse of public funds? If civil servants, why were they buying alcohol for unlawful purposes on government time?
That's even before we get on to recruitment of people who have no experience in the relevant fields to run major government offices without a process being followed. Harding, Spielman, Bingham (the fact she happened to do OK doesn't really address the question). You could even legitimately extend that to Simon Case.
The government absolutely stinks.
And, unfortunately, so did Labour.
The Augean Stables springs to mind.
Not disagreeing with most of that, but to say Kate Bingham got no experience....her career is literally VCing companies in biotech industry. Then being asked by the government to effectively VC vaccine development & also procurement isn't exactly no experience in revelant field territory. Also, she was just the head of the team that included genuine experts in scientific elements.
In that case, I withdraw that. I didn't realise she specialised in biotech. I just heard 'venture capitalist' and assumed the worst...
That’s because you are confusing real Venture Capitalism with the phoney kind.
The real one is where people back new ides and companies with actual, real money (in the US, home of this stuff, there are specific laws banning borrowing money for VC). This is done with the clear expectation that only a fraction of the investments will pan out.
The phoney version is… well look a Theranos. All the real VC outfits didn’t touch them with a barge pole. It was a bunch of rich rubes who thought they were VC that backed that turkey.
What we need in the U.K. is more real VC.
I think people also often confuse venture capitalism with private equity, with the later particularly in recent history seemingly becoming increasingly based upon models of asset stripping and making a quick buck, rather than solely focused upon providing better management and capital to achieve expansion.
I don't recognise that pattern of activity by PE in my industry, professional services. It's all about accelerating sustainable growth in my experience, and I've been impressed by the quality and reasonableness (is that a word) of the PE people I deal with on pretty much a daily basis.
I guess it depends on the industry though - no tangible assets in professional services and if the staff get pissed off and leave, it's easy to lose money.
PE is a bit like credit cards - a useful tool are a shocking abuse. Depends how they are used.
PE can mean highly leveraged asset stripping. Or it can mean more positive things.
It seems the people who worry most about this kind of change are people who don’t actually live in central London. For them it looks and feels different and exotic. For Londoners it’s just normal life.
How people respond to the exoticism and difference of London - which has always been there regardless of migration, in the bigness of things, the noise, the bustle - does seem to vary. Some find it exciting and want more of it. Others feel panicked and disoriented and want to get out.
I think the latter group tend to focus on the obvious things that look different: sometimes that’s the traffic and pollution, sometimes it’s the multi-ethnic look of the place.
I’ve lived in central or central-ish London most of my life. I love the city, despite its flaws. I love the bustle and exoticism. I hate winter
The speed of demographic change is bewildering and fairly new. The stats don’t lie. London has gone from a majority white British city to a minority white British city in 20 years, and the trend is accelerating, if anything
It seems the people who worry most about this kind of change are people who don’t actually live in central London. For them it looks and feels different and exotic. For Londoners it’s just normal life.
How people respond to the exoticism and difference of London - which has always been there regardless of migration, in the bigness of things, the noise, the bustle - does seem to vary. Some find it exciting and want more of it. Others feel panicked and disoriented and want to get out.
I think the latter group tend to focus on the obvious things that look different: sometimes that’s the traffic and pollution, sometimes it’s the multi-ethnic look of the place.
I’ve lived in central or central-ish London most of my life. I love the city, despite its flaws. I love the bustle and exoticism. I hate winter
The speed of demographic change is bewildering and fairly new. The stats don’t lie. London has gone from a majority white British city to a minority white British city in 20 years, and the trend is accelerating, if anything
I think there is some what of a disconnect between those that live in places like London & those who live in towns and villages elsewhere in terms of ethic makeup of the UK. I think its pretty clear that media / entertainment bods who primarily exist in London see a very multi-ethic UK every day and overstate in their minds the proportions country wide, where as vast proportions elsewhere don't experience this unless they head into a place like London and it can be quite a shock (especially the change over their lifetime).
Is London unique or are all major western cities now like this, with easy global travel opening up the world over the past 50 years?
It's definitely not just London in my experience - Paris/Amsterdam/Hamburg all the same. And the major American cities it's been like that my entire life.
America is obviously different because a big part of the multi-ethnic demographic was due to the great Migration from the South.
Its also not true for all US major cities, places like Seattle / Portland were (and still are) majority white and the non-white demographic is majority Asian. The African-American demographic is very small.
Yes, that rings true. I have a gaming friend from SF who moved up to rural Oregon with her partner and as a mixed-race couple they get the staring and 'where are you really from' type questions a lot still.
When I introduced my then finance to my work colleagues, the comments were interesting.
The South African guy talked with her about the little towns they both knew.
The girl from Gloucester said that she was very beautiful.
The American said - “You never said she was Black!?!!”
With that many exclamation marks.
People seem to be very racially conscious here in New York. It seems to be very important to people.
I’m a Markle skeptic, but Jeremy Clarkson’s despicable comments in the Sun have somehow pushed me into Camp Meghan.
Much of the article was spot on, she and her husband have spent the last week whinging like ungrateful brats from their California mansion for Netflix millions trashing the family that made them and even the British public.
Maybe but his comments in question were vile. Utterly awful. Nazi-era rhetoric.
Rubbish, indeed in the Middle Ages the Duke and Duchess could well have been pelted with rotten veg by the mob in the streets for their complete disrespect for the King and Crown. They are just lucky to live in the modern age and California
I’m sad that you’re willing to defend the vile comments. You appear to be a person of very low moral character.
Outside of metropolitan left liberals like you, most Brits would agree with Clarkson
I would hope not.
Clarkson expresses a wish to see Meghan publicly and sexually humiliated.
He believes she should be stripped naked and pelted with faeces.
As I said, it’s kind of Nazi-era rhetoric.
Yes. Very bizarre. Of course, Clarkson is a prominent remainer.
I’m a Markle skeptic, but Jeremy Clarkson’s despicable comments in the Sun have somehow pushed me into Camp Meghan.
Much of the article was spot on, she and her husband have spent the last week whinging like ungrateful brats from their California mansion for Netflix millions trashing the family that made them and even the British public.
Maybe but his comments in question were vile. Utterly awful. Nazi-era rhetoric.
Rubbish, indeed in the Middle Ages the Duke and Duchess could well have been pelted with rotten veg by the mob in the streets for their complete disrespect for the King and Crown. They are just lucky to live in the modern age and California
I’m sad that you’re willing to defend the vile comments. You appear to be a person of very low moral character.
Outside of metropolitan left liberals like you, most Brits would agree with Clarkson
I would hope not.
Clarkson expresses a wish to see Meghan publicly and sexually humiliated.
He believes she should be stripped naked and pelted with faeces.
As I said, it’s kind of Nazi-era rhetoric.
Do you think he really wants to see that?
Clarkson is a creation in the style of the pub landlord, Al Murray. His comments have worked because people are talking about Clarkson.
I don’t care what his aim is. Those comments are not fit for publication, and I’m inclined to think the Sun should be censured.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
I’m a Markle skeptic, but Jeremy Clarkson’s despicable comments in the Sun have somehow pushed me into Camp Meghan.
Much of the article was spot on, she and her husband have spent the last week whinging like ungrateful brats from their California mansion for Netflix millions trashing the family that made them and even the British public.
Maybe but his comments in question were vile. Utterly awful. Nazi-era rhetoric.
Rubbish, indeed in the Middle Ages the Duke and Duchess could well have been pelted with rotten veg by the mob in the streets for their complete disrespect for the King and Crown. They are just lucky to live in the modern age and California
I’m sad that you’re willing to defend the vile comments. You appear to be a person of very low moral character.
Outside of metropolitan left liberals like you, most Brits would agree with Clarkson
I would hope not.
Clarkson expresses a wish to see Meghan publicly and sexually humiliated.
He believes she should be stripped naked and pelted with faeces.
As I said, it’s kind of Nazi-era rhetoric.
Yes. Very bizarre. Of course, Clarkson is a prominent remainer.
I haven’t seen the comment in question, but it sounds like he is referencing the scene in Game Of Thrones. Which, of course, was a rif on stuff that happened in medieval times.
I don’t think so. If you still don’t realise that you were had when the govt got you to stay at home singing happy birthday and banging pans, you never will.
I’m a Markle skeptic, but Jeremy Clarkson’s despicable comments in the Sun have somehow pushed me into Camp Meghan.
Much of the article was spot on, she and her husband have spent the last week whinging like ungrateful brats from their California mansion for Netflix millions trashing the family that made them and even the British public.
Maybe but his comments in question were vile. Utterly awful. Nazi-era rhetoric.
Rubbish, indeed in the Middle Ages the Duke and Duchess could well have been pelted with rotten veg by the mob in the streets for their complete disrespect for the King and Crown. They are just lucky to live in the modern age and California
I’m sad that you’re willing to defend the vile comments. You appear to be a person of very low moral character.
Outside of metropolitan left liberals like you, most Brits would agree with Clarkson
I would hope not.
Clarkson expresses a wish to see Meghan publicly and sexually humiliated.
He believes she should be stripped naked and pelted with faeces.
As I said, it’s kind of Nazi-era rhetoric.
Do you think he really wants to see that?
Clarkson is a creation in the style of the pub landlord, Al Murray. His comments have worked because people are talking about Clarkson.
I don’t care what his aim is. Those comments are not fit for publication, and I’m inclined to think the Sun should be censured.
By whom? If he has broken a law, or commited libel then the law. If he has been nasty about her, well tough.
It seems the people who worry most about this kind of change are people who don’t actually live in central London. For them it looks and feels different and exotic. For Londoners it’s just normal life.
How people respond to the exoticism and difference of London - which has always been there regardless of migration, in the bigness of things, the noise, the bustle - does seem to vary. Some find it exciting and want more of it. Others feel panicked and disoriented and want to get out.
I think the latter group tend to focus on the obvious things that look different: sometimes that’s the traffic and pollution, sometimes it’s the multi-ethnic look of the place.
I’ve lived in central or central-ish London most of my life. I love the city, despite its flaws. I love the bustle and exoticism. I hate winter
The speed of demographic change is bewildering and fairly new. The stats don’t lie. London has gone from a majority white British city to a minority white British city in 20 years, and the trend is accelerating, if anything
I think there is some what of a disconnect between those that live in places like London & those who live in towns and villages elsewhere in terms of ethic makeup of the UK. I think its pretty clear that media / entertainment bods who primarily exist in London see a very multi-ethic UK every day and overstate in their minds the proportions country wide, where as vast proportions elsewhere don't experience this unless they head into a place like London and it can be quite a shock (especially the change over their lifetime).
Is London unique or are all major western cities now like this, with easy global travel opening up the world over the past 50 years?
I see those darn wokists at the BBC voted for a Sudanese immigrant to win Strictly. Bloody metropolitan elite, eh?
What a stupid comment. I didn't mention anything to do with "woke". I was just stating facts that there is a disconnect between lived experiences in the different parts of the UK.
What your comment might highlight is the UK is actually a very tolerant place, a lot more than some race grifters like to make it seem e.g Nobody batted an eyelid at Sunak becoming PM, other than people like that knobhead Trevor Noah.
Well, apologies if I offended.
My point of course is that the country as a whole is tolerant and that for the vast majority race or background is not an issue. I'd be surprised if many people are 'shocked' or bothered by the mix of ethnicities in London or other urban centres, it after all shown on the TV all the time.
As somebody who lives in a majority white area but visits London quite often, perhaps "shocked" is the wrong word, but it is noticeable. I imagine if you are somebody who only visits every year or two it is even more so.
Its also worth pointing out that some very "white" areas have seen large scale immigration, but white immigration from Eastern Europe. So again, a very different lived experience of demographic change. My "home" area of Crewe / Stoke has seen huge immigration from places like Poland, when I pop back from time to time, it is really "noticeable" the change.
And that isn't to say I am "bothered" or gone full Nige Farage "send em back", just pointing out that is noticeably different makeup.
As someone who grew up in Alsager, so between Crewe and Stoke, I didn't notice much change when detouring though it a few months ago. Over the last 40 or so years it's seems to have got bigger in terms of more houses, but smaller in other ways, and I didn't notice any eg polish shops. It all looks just a little bit quiet and slightly rundown. Sad really, or perhaps the place you grow up always seems bigger and brighter at the time..
I’m a Markle skeptic, but Jeremy Clarkson’s despicable comments in the Sun have somehow pushed me into Camp Meghan.
Much of the article was spot on, she and her husband have spent the last week whinging like ungrateful brats from their California mansion for Netflix millions trashing the family that made them and even the British public.
Maybe but his comments in question were vile. Utterly awful. Nazi-era rhetoric.
Rubbish, indeed in the Middle Ages the Duke and Duchess could well have been pelted with rotten veg by the mob in the streets for their complete disrespect for the King and Crown. They are just lucky to live in the modern age and California
I’m sad that you’re willing to defend the vile comments. You appear to be a person of very low moral character.
Outside of metropolitan left liberals like you, most Brits would agree with Clarkson
I would hope not.
Clarkson expresses a wish to see Meghan publicly and sexually humiliated.
He believes she should be stripped naked and pelted with faeces.
As I said, it’s kind of Nazi-era rhetoric.
Yes. Very bizarre. Of course, Clarkson is a prominent remainer.
I haven’t seen the comment in question, but it sounds like he is referencing the scene in Game Of Thrones. Which, of course, was a rif on stuff that happened in medieval times.
I have just read it. Of course, Clarkson knows what he's doing. He's 'shock-jocking' for reasons best known to himself. But as I said a few days ago, I don't appreciate right wing people taking the 'shock jock' coin - they discredit their own (avowed) beliefs.
Clarkson is an odd case anyway though, being a Cameronite remainer.
I’m a Markle skeptic, but Jeremy Clarkson’s despicable comments in the Sun have somehow pushed me into Camp Meghan.
Much of the article was spot on, she and her husband have spent the last week whinging like ungrateful brats from their California mansion for Netflix millions trashing the family that made them and even the British public.
Maybe but his comments in question were vile. Utterly awful. Nazi-era rhetoric.
Rubbish, indeed in the Middle Ages the Duke and Duchess could well have been pelted with rotten veg by the mob in the streets for their complete disrespect for the King and Crown. They are just lucky to live in the modern age and California
I’m sad that you’re willing to defend the vile comments. You appear to be a person of very low moral character.
Outside of metropolitan left liberals like you, most Brits would agree with Clarkson
I would hope not.
Clarkson expresses a wish to see Meghan publicly and sexually humiliated.
He believes she should be stripped naked and pelted with faeces.
As I said, it’s kind of Nazi-era rhetoric.
Do you think he really wants to see that?
Clarkson is a creation in the style of the pub landlord, Al Murray. His comments have worked because people are talking about Clarkson.
I don’t care what his aim is. Those comments are not fit for publication, and I’m inclined to think the Sun should be censured.
By whom? If he has broken a law, or commited libel then the law. If he has been nasty about her, well tough.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I don’t think so. If you still don’t realise that you were had when the govt got you to stay at home singing happy birthday and banging pans, you never will.
We’ve all been numbed. But finally I sense the anaesthetic wearing off
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
I don’t think so. If you still don’t realise that you were had when the govt got you to stay at home singing happy birthday and banging pans, you never will.
We’ve all been numbed. But finally I sense the anaesthetic wearing off
Hancock was obviously fearful of this, hence his attempt at jungle-washing his reputation. But I still can’t see it. We have to remember that perhaps 70-80% of the country and 95% of the political and media class thought Johnson reckless for opening up even as late as he did, with a deafening clamour for more hard restrictions last winter after everyone had already been vaccinated. Everyone liked the free money and now finds it easier to blame Brexit for taxes having to go up than acknowledge the ruinous cost of spending two years of a general scaredy cat approach to life.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
I don’t think so. If you still don’t realise that you were had when the govt got you to stay at home singing happy birthday and banging pans, you never will.
We’ve all been numbed. But finally I sense the anaesthetic wearing off
Hancock was obviously fearful of this, hence his attempt at jungle-washing his reputation. But I still can’t see it. We have to remember that perhaps 70-80% of the country and 95% of the political and media class thought Johnson reckless for opening up even as late as he did, with a deafening clamour for more hard restrictions last winter after everyone had already been vaccinated. Everyone liked the free money and now finds it easier to blame Brexit for taxes having to go up than acknowledge the ruinous cost of spending two years of a general scaredy cat approach to life.
Boris does deserve at least some credit for bring right on opening up at a time when it would have been very easy, with public support, not to do so, and that it was right was shown by the lack of disaster that was predicted from it.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Clarkson must be jolly pleased that he’s short circuited all those with a sense of humour bypass.
You should write to him in support, there are probably niche clubs you join.
Come on, it was at least a BIT funny
Not to me. I think it’s disgraceful, cruel and dehumanising language.
It’s tasteless gibberish from an ageing man with a love of attention. Worse, it’s not funny
Clarkson is very funny - a comic genius in his timing (see the latest Grand Tour) - and a pretty good writer. But that column is puerile. A mistake
The part I've read actually makes no criticism of Markle and her actions either - just majors on the sexually sadistic punishment that Clarkson apparently wishes to mete out to her. It could have been written by her PR people. I mean, she can get another teary interview out of this episode alone, if not a whole series.
Clarkson must be jolly pleased that he’s short circuited all those with a sense of humour bypass.
You should write to him in support, there are probably niche clubs you join.
Come on, it was at least a BIT funny
Not to me. I think it’s disgraceful, cruel and dehumanising language.
It’s tasteless gibberish from an ageing man with a love of attention. Worse, it’s not funny
Clarkson is very funny - a comic genius in his timing (see the latest Grand Tour) - and a pretty good writer. But that column is puerile. A mistake
I felt the part describing his dream of Meghan being paraded naked through the streets and pelted with excrement was just a little creepy. Perhaps I just don't have the same "sense of humour" as some people here.
Clarkson must be jolly pleased that he’s short circuited all those with a sense of humour bypass.
You should write to him in support, there are probably niche clubs you join.
Come on, it was at least a BIT funny
Not to me. I think it’s disgraceful, cruel and dehumanising language.
It’s tasteless gibberish from an ageing man with a love of attention. Worse, it’s not funny
Clarkson is very funny - a comic genius in his timing (see the latest Grand Tour) - and a pretty good writer. But that column is puerile. A mistake
The part I've read actually makes no criticism of Markle and her actions either - just majors on the sexually sadistic punishment that Clarkson apparently wishes to mete out to her. It could have been written by her PR people. I mean, she can get another teary interview out of this episode alone, if not a whole series.
Absolutely. So now that’s two things we actually agree on. Jeremy Clarkson has a lot to answer for.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
So basically everyone apart from those behind the great Barrington declaration?
I am not sure why the PB consensus seems to be that we should no longer even subject our foreign policy toward Ukraine to any form of cost/benefit analysis. It would be a colossal dereliction of duty on the part of the Government not to analyse this. If the reason is humanitarian, can anyone tell me why it's perfectly acceptable to leave Afghans to the tender mercies of the Taliban?
There’s no point because the strategic costs of Russia winning a so horrendous that it is a waste of time analysing. We are all in.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
What about those who pushed ineffective treatments like Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin over very effective vaccinations?
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
I am not sure why the PB consensus seems to be that we should no longer even subject our foreign policy toward Ukraine to any form of cost/benefit analysis. It would be a colossal dereliction of duty on the part of the Government not to analyse this. If the reason is humanitarian, can anyone tell me why it's perfectly acceptable to leave Afghans to the tender mercies of the Taliban?
There’s no point because the strategic costs of Russia winning a so horrendous that it is a waste of time analysing. We are all in.
It is still worth looking at what is most effective at supporting Ukraine, and what was less useful.
There are other things that could be investigated:
1) Oak National Academy. Why was £15 million in public money given to an organisation (Ark Academies Trust) that had no expertise in digital learning to essentially produce a series of poor quality videos that were not suitable for online learning but pushed as the solution to all our ills? Without competition or even looking around to see what was out there?
2) on the wider subject of procurement, why were Trusts in this area not permitted to negotiate their own hand sanitiser contracts, instead being ordered to accept a demonstrably inferior product at a considerably higher price?
3) Who paid for the wine at these illegal parties? If it was the government, then should individuals be under investigation not merely for breach of lockdown regs, but for misuse of public funds? If civil servants, why were they buying alcohol for unlawful purposes on government time?
That's even before we get on to recruitment of people who have no experience in the relevant fields to run major government offices without a process being followed. Harding, Spielman, Bingham (the fact she happened to do OK doesn't really address the question). You could even legitimately extend that to Simon Case.
The government absolutely stinks.
And, unfortunately, so did Labour.
The Augean Stables springs to mind.
Not disagreeing with most of that, but to say Kate Bingham got no experience....her career is literally VCing companies in biotech industry. Then being asked by the government to effectively VC vaccine development & also procurement isn't exactly no experience in revelant field territory. Also, she was just the head of the team that included genuine experts in scientific elements.
In that case, I withdraw that. I didn't realise she specialised in biotech. I just heard 'venture capitalist' and assumed the worst...
And that’s exactly the problem. There was huge criticism because she happens to be married to a Tory MP.
Criticse first, analyse later is at the heart of what is wrong in so much public discourse.
I am not sure why the PB consensus seems to be that we should no longer even subject our foreign policy toward Ukraine to any form of cost/benefit analysis. It would be a colossal dereliction of duty on the part of the Government not to analyse this. If the reason is humanitarian, can anyone tell me why it's perfectly acceptable to leave Afghans to the tender mercies of the Taliban?
There’s no point because the strategic costs of Russia winning a so horrendous that it is a waste of time analysing. We are all in.
It is still worth looking at what is most effective at supporting Ukraine, and what was less useful.
According to the report, Rishi wants to know “what we’ve put in, what we’ve got out”.
I am not sure why the PB consensus seems to be that we should no longer even subject our foreign policy toward Ukraine to any form of cost/benefit analysis. It would be a colossal dereliction of duty on the part of the Government not to analyse this. If the reason is humanitarian, can anyone tell me why it's perfectly acceptable to leave Afghans to the tender mercies of the Taliban?
There’s no point because the strategic costs of Russia winning a so horrendous that it is a waste of time analysing. We are all in.
It is still worth looking at what is most effective at supporting Ukraine, and what was less useful.
According to the report, Rishi wants to know “what we’ve put in, what we’ve got out”.
According to the same source, "Wars aren't won by dashboards. Wars are won on instinct.", so we can safely assume the source is a bit of pillock with an agenda, so caveat emptor claims of the exact remit.
I never want to be in a position where I'm estranged from my daughter or publicly condemned by her; it's very important we maintain respect for each other.
But, that doesn't mean I'm going to automatically genuflect to the views of the younger generation - I expect a conversation.
There are other things that could be investigated:
1) Oak National Academy. Why was £15 million in public money given to an organisation (Ark Academies Trust) that had no expertise in digital learning to essentially produce a series of poor quality videos that were not suitable for online learning but pushed as the solution to all our ills? Without competition or even looking around to see what was out there?
2) on the wider subject of procurement, why were Trusts in this area not permitted to negotiate their own hand sanitiser contracts, instead being ordered to accept a demonstrably inferior product at a considerably higher price?
3) Who paid for the wine at these illegal parties? If it was the government, then should individuals be under investigation not merely for breach of lockdown regs, but for misuse of public funds? If civil servants, why were they buying alcohol for unlawful purposes on government time?
That's even before we get on to recruitment of people who have no experience in the relevant fields to run major government offices without a process being followed. Harding, Spielman, Bingham (the fact she happened to do OK doesn't really address the question). You could even legitimately extend that to Simon Case.
The government absolutely stinks.
And, unfortunately, so did Labour.
The Augean Stables springs to mind.
Not disagreeing with most of that, but to say Kate Bingham got no experience....her career is literally VCing companies in biotech industry. Then being asked by the government to effectively VC vaccine development & also procurement isn't exactly no experience in revelant field territory. Also, she was just the head of the team that included genuine experts in scientific elements.
In that case, I withdraw that. I didn't realise she specialised in biotech. I just heard 'venture capitalist' and assumed the worst...
And that’s exactly the problem. There was huge criticism because she happens to be married to a Tory MP.
Criticse first, analyse later is at the heart of what is wrong in so much public discourse.
You should do better than that
It's reasonable to be of a generally suspicious nature about these matters. To be questioning. But things like Bingham's appointment or generally fastracking procurements (and thus increasing risk) were, in fact, not unreasonable, and that should be acknowledged alongside going after the things that very much were not ok, like the Mone's of the world getting away with daylight robbery. Without the initial acknowledgement of initial concerns not panning out that gets undermined.
There are other things that could be investigated:
1) Oak National Academy. Why was £15 million in public money given to an organisation (Ark Academies Trust) that had no expertise in digital learning to essentially produce a series of poor quality videos that were not suitable for online learning but pushed as the solution to all our ills? Without competition or even looking around to see what was out there?
2) on the wider subject of procurement, why were Trusts in this area not permitted to negotiate their own hand sanitiser contracts, instead being ordered to accept a demonstrably inferior product at a considerably higher price?
3) Who paid for the wine at these illegal parties? If it was the government, then should individuals be under investigation not merely for breach of lockdown regs, but for misuse of public funds? If civil servants, why were they buying alcohol for unlawful purposes on government time?
That's even before we get on to recruitment of people who have no experience in the relevant fields to run major government offices without a process being followed. Harding, Spielman, Bingham (the fact she happened to do OK doesn't really address the question). You could even legitimately extend that to Simon Case.
The government absolutely stinks.
And, unfortunately, so did Labour.
The Augean Stables springs to mind.
Not disagreeing with most of that, but to say Kate Bingham got no experience....her career is literally VCing companies in biotech industry. Then being asked by the government to effectively VC vaccine development & also procurement isn't exactly no experience in revelant field territory. Also, she was just the head of the team that included genuine experts in scientific elements.
In that case, I withdraw that. I didn't realise she specialised in biotech. I just heard 'venture capitalist' and assumed the worst...
That’s because you are confusing real Venture Capitalism with the phoney kind.
The real one is where people back new ides and companies with actual, real money (in the US, home of this stuff, there are specific laws banning borrowing money for VC). This is done with the clear expectation that only a fraction of the investments will pan out.
The phoney version is… well look a Theranos. All the real VC outfits didn’t touch them with a barge pole. It was a bunch of rich rubes who thought they were VC that backed that turkey.
What we need in the U.K. is more real VC.
We actually have a decent amount of VC.
What we lack is the stage between VC and large company - too often VC takes the risk and then sells to Google or whoever for decent money but foregoing the chance to build an ecosystem
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
Both BBC and ITV have gone for the "men in the studio, women on the touchline" approach to the punditry.
How many pundits have they each got today? Have they managed more than single figures. I think the most I have counted is 9 for a single game at this WC (and that doesn't include the radio coverage). Quantity over quality.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
People lock themselves down, out of fear. This is much better than government imposed restrictions
“China has released all COVID restrictions. What happens? The streets are empty, Saturday evening in a restaurant and shopping mall: empty... People stay at home, they worry to get the Virus”
The Tories know they are on borrowed time now, and will likely be worse, not better, as the countdown to their defeat goes on…
Popped in again and getting confused by the mixed topics - had a vision of penalty kicks while their chief supporter runs around with a flare up his bottom.
I am not sure why the PB consensus seems to be that we should no longer even subject our foreign policy toward Ukraine to any form of cost/benefit analysis. It would be a colossal dereliction of duty on the part of the Government not to analyse this. If the reason is humanitarian, can anyone tell me why it's perfectly acceptable to leave Afghans to the tender mercies of the Taliban?
There’s no point because the strategic costs of Russia winning a so horrendous that it is a waste of time analysing. We are all in.
It is still worth looking at what is most effective at supporting Ukraine, and what was less useful.
Otherwise you end up with the Mk X depth charge…
During WWII, it was clear that depth charges had their limits. The “throwing everything in without analysis” types demanded a stupendous depth charge. The 1 ton Mark X could
- Sink your ship unless you were steaming away like crazy - Ruin sonar conditions for hours
It never sank anything - apart from blowing the sterns off a destroyer or 2….
Meanwhile, the OR types came up with Hedgehog, Limbo and Squid. The later had a kill rate of 60% per salvo fired. Which meant pretty much certain death for a U boat targeted, given multiple salvos from multiple attackers.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
People lock themselves down, out of fear. This is much better than government imposed restrictions
“China has released all COVID restrictions. What happens? The streets are empty, Saturday evening in a restaurant and shopping mall: empty... People stay at home, they worry to get the Virus”
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
People lock themselves down, out of fear. This is much better than government imposed restrictions
“China has released all COVID restrictions. What happens? The streets are empty, Saturday evening in a restaurant and shopping mall: empty... People stay at home, they worry to get the Virus”
I think the initial lockdowns were necessary. I don't think enough people would have acted without legal imperative, even though it was only every voluntary in practice, since outside of a China like place it would not be enforcable on the unwilling.
Once things were under more control, and people had seen what had happened without taking action, I think less legal restrictions were needed. Not none, but less.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
People lock themselves down, out of fear. This is much better than government imposed restrictions
“China has released all COVID restrictions. What happens? The streets are empty, Saturday evening in a restaurant and shopping mall: empty... People stay at home, they worry to get the Virus”
And the side effects of that are horrendous too. It is the worst of both worlds: you get the infection raging through the population, the vulnerable unprotected, and the economy hammered.
Lockdown was awful. I have some doubts about the later lockdowns and regulations, but I have no doubt that the first lockdown in March 2020 was the only rational thing to do, given what we knew then. And, in fact, what we know now.
China has a slight advantage (it could have been a massive advantage) that we know much more about the pestilence, and they have a lot of people vaccinated. It is a very different case to March 2020.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
I would love to see Covid get a reckoning. Is that what you meant?
The bills we ran up during the lockdowns are now being paid. In multiple ways. You can sense the anger slowly growing
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
You said we’d all forget it though. And I think you were right.
I said we will WANT to forget it - as we forgot Spanish flu. And so it is
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Revenge on whom? Boris and his pals or the 'intellectuals'?
Everyone involved in lockdowns in any way. Everyone who cheered on quarantine. Everyone who lied about Covid origins
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Musk is a lunatic though. And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
Lockdowns should have been voluntary. Especially after lockdown 1. Schools should never have closed. The lies about Covid were shocking and criminal. Etc
What evidence do you have that 'voluntary' lockdowns would have had any effect at all?
Especially when, during compulsory ones, some irresponsible people still went on holiday to south wales.
I thought it was ran and hid in Cornwall? Or was that another @SeanT?
Comments
Russia invades Ukraine. Britain supports Ukraine.
But somewhere there must be a congruity. And it's not to do with Wall Street and Washington and Whitehall prioritising shaking hands in all parts of the world with governments that enjoy the "support of the people". From 2014 the USA and Britain were arming the Kiev government to carry out war against much of the population in the Donbas. That was before "Servant of the People" even came on Ukrainian TV screens (in the Russian language - how strange, given that there's nothing like a civil war there and it's wholly a matter of one country suddenly attacking its neighbour, right?).
Got to wonder whether "the US were asked into Afghanistan by a movement that had the support of the Afghan people against an illegitimate government" will become the "correct" slant. Might as well say the same bullsh*t as was said regarding Vietnam even though "Vietnam Syndrome" suddenly went down the memory hole on 11 Sep 2001 and Bush then announced the USA was at war and would hammer Afghanistan.
I wasn't impressed with the decision to invade Afghanistan and it ended in even more of a debacle than I expected, but there was an arguable case that there was a NATO strategic interest at play and a direct threat to be countered.
It was much harder to make that case for Iraq. And invading Iraq led people to overlook Afghanistan.
Equally, it's still easier to make the case for Ukraine.
It doesn't say who to though.
Anyway what's his educational qualifications got to do with anything? And correct me if I am wrong but this mere Captain saw more hostile fire than you did in Afghanistan.
If you think there's an arguable case that there was a NATO strategic interest in Afghanistan, why not assert the existence of a similarly arguable case for a Russian strategic interest in Poland? After all, Poland actually borders Russia, whereas Afghanistan is a long way from the USA (and the North Atlantic).
Sometime ago, there was a despairing article from a minor hack there. Essentially he felt that he and his family were slipping away from being middle class. All he and his wife could afford was an ex council property on a grotty estate in London. His daughter was attending the local school, where education was viewed negatively by the inmates….
What was trivially obvious was that he needed to move out of London. Both he and his wife were writers. No need to commute, even pre pandemic. And if you go somewhere not computable, but can get to London if you need to for meetings etc… well, back then he could have picked up a nice country cottage in a pleasant village for the price of his inner city dive… given what he stated about income and assets, IIRC, he could have been mortgage free.
The South African guy talked with her about the little towns they both knew.
The girl from Gloucester said that she was very beautiful.
The American said - “You never said she was Black!?!!”
With that many exclamation marks.
The underlying impression is fear of covering it, and fear of the knock-on political effects of that.
Anyone who can't see there is a difference has clearly been overdosing on the Taliban's favourite and most profitable export.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Lithuanian_Commonwealth
The idea that speaking a language means that you are part of the country is interesting - are you in favour of Greater Germany? Or should France… absorb all the French speaking countries around it? It’s not as if Belgium is a real country, anyway…etc..,
Is that what you meant?
If he sought to instruct me how to do my job I would tell him to do one.
I guess it depends on the industry though - no tangible assets in professional services and if the staff get pissed off and leave, it's easy to lose money.
PE can mean highly leveraged asset stripping. Or it can mean more positive things.
Rishi plans to regulate Netflix after fury at Harry & Meghan documentary 'lies' https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/20791772/rishi-sunak-netflix-plans-regulate-streaming-services/
Those comments are not fit for publication, and I’m inclined to think the Sun should be censured.
An event as momentous and disastrous as the Plague will have brutal repercussions. A backlash. Blame apportioning. It hasn’t happened yet probably because Covid has been SO huge and horrible, we just want to forget it
But we won’t forget and we won’t forgive
Clarkson is an odd case anyway though, being a Cameronite remainer.
And I think you were right.
But the consequences of Covid are so grim reality won’t allow us to forget, so we will seek revenge
Inter alia, the Ukraine war is one of those grim consequences. The NYT today says the lockdowns/quarantines drove Putin into isolated paranoia. And here we are
Clarkson is very funny - a comic genius in his timing (see the latest Grand Tour) - and a pretty good writer. But that column is puerile. A mistake
The Musk tweet about Fauci was the first sign of the underlying anger
Kudos to Jeremy Clarkson’s daughter, Emily for posting this on her Insta. https://twitter.com/MarinaPurkiss/status/1604481247094263809/photo/1
So now that’s two things we actually agree on.
Jeremy Clarkson has a lot to answer for.
Put on Classic FM for some Christmas music, and they are playing Land of Hope and Glory.
Classic FM? More like Gammon FM.
And lockdowns were necessary, even if people can reasonably disagree on how long.
I say this as someone who detested lockdowns and ended up moving country in part to psychologically escape from “lockdown”.
Criticse first, analyse later is at the heart of what is wrong in so much public discourse.
You should do better than that
But, that doesn't mean I'm going to automatically genuflect to the views of the younger generation - I expect a conversation.
What we lack is the stage between VC and large company - too often VC takes the risk and then sells to Google or whoever for decent money but foregoing the chance to build an ecosystem
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/03/13/elon-musks-false-covid-predictions-a-timeline/
But this one was the most tragicomic, from Mach 2020:
"Based on current trends, probably close to zero new cases in US too by end of April"
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1240754657263144960
Must... have... football...
Vive La France, vive la liberté.
“China has released all COVID restrictions. What happens?
The streets are empty, Saturday evening in a restaurant and shopping mall: empty...
People stay at home, they worry to get the Virus”
https://twitter.com/duanqiaozhi/status/1604062420737134593?s=46&t=h6a3a3nh8K86eWg1SzG57Q
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/chinas-cities-battle-first-wave-covid-surge-wider-spread-looms-2022-12-18/
During WWII, it was clear that depth charges had their limits. The “throwing everything in without analysis” types demanded a stupendous depth charge. The 1 ton Mark X could
- Sink your ship unless you were steaming away like crazy
- Ruin sonar conditions for hours
It never sank anything - apart from blowing the sterns off a destroyer or 2….
Meanwhile, the OR types came up with Hedgehog, Limbo and Squid. The later had a kill rate of 60% per salvo fired. Which meant pretty much certain death for a U boat targeted, given multiple salvos from multiple attackers.
Once things were under more control, and people had seen what had happened without taking action, I think less legal restrictions were needed. Not none, but less.
Lockdown was awful. I have some doubts about the later lockdowns and regulations, but I have no doubt that the first lockdown in March 2020 was the only rational thing to do, given what we knew then. And, in fact, what we know now.
China has a slight advantage (it could have been a massive advantage) that we know much more about the pestilence, and they have a lot of people vaccinated. It is a very different case to March 2020.
The Predators seem to be big game hunting Imperialists, complete with a Nietzschian Social Darwinistic societal structure. Natural fascists?