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DavidL

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

DecrepiterJohnL

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

Even worse will be when people find the government lied about the £2,500 energy cap.

LostPassword

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

One issue is how honest Hunt/Sunak really are.

One of the word things about Sunak's time as Chancellor was that he fell between two stools. On the one hand he would talk about how awful everything was, but then he would claim to have fixed everything so well that he could cut income tax. It undermined his own message and the whole thing came across as insincere.

Then when people could see that they were worse off, they wondered why they weren't among the chosen ones Sunak has said he'd protected.

eek

LostPassword said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

One issue is how honest Hunt/Sunak really are.

One of the word things about Sunak's time as Chancellor was that he fell between two stools. On the one hand he would talk about how awful everything was, but then he would claim to have fixed everything so well that he could cut income tax. It undermined his own message and the whole thing came across as insincere.

Then when people could see that they were worse off, they wondered why they weren't among the chosen ones Sunak has said he'd protected.

It doesn’t matter how honest Hunt and Sunak are.

This mess has been created by 12 years of Tory Government and no-one is going to believe anyone else is at fault.

We have already seen that Sunak’s honeymoon bounce isn’t exactly big and the Autumn statement is going to be bad news city that is only going to do 1 thing to Tory polling.

wooliedyed

'They'll reward us at the ballot box for gritty honesty and doing the right thing, Rishi, right?'
*tumbleweed*

DecrepiterJohnL

@PBModerator Thread shows as Page Not Found on Vanilla.

another_richard

DecrepiterJohnL said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

Even worse will be when people find the government lied about the £2,500 energy cap.

The people finding that out likely having made no attempt to be more energy efficient.

So naturally they'll blame the government for not giving them even more subsidies.

Alistair

Nevada polling is insane.

You've got a poll giving the GOP Senate candidate a 6 point lead. When you look at the subsamples (given to 1 decimal place on a poll of 550 people) it has Hispanics voting for the GOP 57/28. You've got 2 Trafalgar polls with their unchanging demographic profile (given to 1 decimal place). Then you have other polls which have the Hispanic respondents once again favouring the GOP but massively underweight, about half what the state's population is.

This, once again, reinforces my message to not bet on individual races in the mid-terms. It is anarchy out there. Anyone who says they know what is happening is a liar.

DecrepiterJohnL

another_richard said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

Even worse will be when people find the government lied about the £2,500 energy cap.

The people finding that out likely having made no attempt to be more energy efficient.

So naturally they'll blame the government for not giving them even more subsidies.

They will blame the government for lying to them. Liz Truss in particular.

dixiedean

DecrepiterJohnL said:

@PBModerator Thread shows as Page Not Found on Vanilla.

If you click on "Read the full story here", it works fine.

dixiedean

This Ed Davey mortgage subsidy plan is bonkers.

HYUFD

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

And even if Sunak and Hunt do manage to balance the books by the next election the public may not be grateful if their taxes have gone up and public services been cut to pay for it.

However Labour would then face the same problem, fiscal discipline as the markets will want or a spending spree which would be as unaffordable as Truss' tax cuts were, unless paid for by significantly higher taxes which would also be unpopular and hit growth. The cost of living issue is also not going away until there is peace between Russia and Ukraine

Casino_Royale

Love a bit of "page not found".

DecrepiterJohnL

dixiedean said:

This Ed Davey mortgage subsidy plan is bonkers.

Bonkers. What variant of it do you suppose the government will adopt?

Daveyboy1961

dixiedean said:

This Ed Davey mortgage subsidy plan is bonkers.

why?

turbotubbs

DecrepiterJohnL said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

Even worse will be when people find the government lied about the £2,500 energy cap.

In what way? Are you referring to Truss misspeaking about no one paying more than £2,500? You may be right, but it was not government lies.

wooliedyed

dixiedean said:

This Ed Davey mortgage subsidy plan is bonkers.

Yes, subsidising mortgages when interest rates are below long term averages. Idiotic.
Legislating government kissies for all your booboos

Leon

An impressively tragic scene of Russian soldiers in Ukraine “enjoying” some shipped-in entertainment

https://twitter.com/golub/status/1589205666597855232?s=46&t=Uof-e8KTryQ2iVIJe-YErA

An apt tweet in the thread summarises it perfectly:


“Mental hospital does sing-along in mud because they have no buildings.”

turbotubbs

dixiedean said:

This Ed Davey mortgage subsidy plan is bonkers.

Yep. Direct contrast with Sunak saying that government cannot solve all problems. At some point interests rates were going to go up. If you borrowed a lot of money without stress checking the repayment, then more fool you.

DecrepiterJohnL

turbotubbs said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

Even worse will be when people find the government lied about the £2,500 energy cap.

In what way? Are you referring to Truss misspeaking about no one paying more than £2,500? You may be right, but it was not government lies.

Some misguided fools might believe Liz Truss used to be in the government.

eek

HYUFD said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

And even if Sunak and Hunt do manage to balance the books by the next election the public may not be grateful if their taxes have gone up and public services been cut to pay for it.

However Labour would then face the same problem, fiscal discipline as the markets will want or a spending spree which would be as unaffordable as Truss' tax cuts were, unless paid for by significantly higher taxes which would also be unpopular and hit growth. The cost of living issue is also not going away until there is peace between Russia and Ukraine

So Labour campaigns in 2-24 on not being the Tories and spends from 2025 to 2032 saying “love to increase spending but you know that mess the Tory party created we are still trying to fix it“.

That only requires a tiny bit of party discipline and guess what SKS has started to implement - party discipline.

another_richard

DecrepiterJohnL said:

another_richard said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

Even worse will be when people find the government lied about the £2,500 energy cap.

The people finding that out likely having made no attempt to be more energy efficient.

So naturally they'll blame the government for not giving them even more subsidies.

They will blame the government for lying to them. Liz Truss in particular.

Politicians exaggerating is assumed.

But on fuel prices the deal was obviously that prices were rising and that the government would help but that people would have to be more energy efficient.

And being more energy efficient often turned out to be quite easy to do, has long term financial benefits and is good for the environment.

Of course there will be people who think they're entitled to use as much energy as they want to do in as inefficient manner as they like with someone else contributing the money for the higher prices.

eek

another_richard said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

another_richard said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

Even worse will be when people find the government lied about the £2,500 energy cap.

The people finding that out likely having made no attempt to be more energy efficient.

So naturally they'll blame the government for not giving them even more subsidies.

They will blame the government for lying to them. Liz Truss in particular.

Politicians exaggerating is assumed.

But on fuel prices the deal was obviously that prices were rising and that the government would help but that people would have to be more energy efficient.

And being more energy efficient often turned out to be quite easy to do, has long term financial benefits and is good for the environment.

Of course there will be people who think they're entitled to use as much energy as they want to do in as inefficient manner as they like with someone else contributing the money for the higher prices.

No they didn’t.

Even JRM saw the need for a campaign on energy efficiency but Truss and co vetoed the approved campaign.

another_richard

eek said:

HYUFD said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

And even if Sunak and Hunt do manage to balance the books by the next election the public may not be grateful if their taxes have gone up and public services been cut to pay for it.

However Labour would then face the same problem, fiscal discipline as the markets will want or a spending spree which would be as unaffordable as Truss' tax cuts were, unless paid for by significantly higher taxes which would also be unpopular and hit growth. The cost of living issue is also not going away until there is peace between Russia and Ukraine

So Labour campaigns in 2-24 on not being the Tories and spends from 2025 to 2032 saying “love to increase spending but you know that mess the Tory party created we are still trying to fix it“.

That only requires a tiny bit of party discipline and guess what SKS has started to implement - party discipline.

There might be some confrontations between a Starmer government and the public sector unions in that scenario.

Ishmael_Z

dixiedean said:

This Ed Davey mortgage subsidy plan is bonkers.

Fabulous LOL at his contribution on the Finance Bill 2000

Mr. Edward Davey (Kingston and Surbiton): The Committee should not allow the demise of MIRAS to pass without some recognition of the work of those from all political parties who campaigned for its abolition over many years. People campaigned against it because it distorted the housing market and caused inflation, which resulted in higher interest rates for the wider economy, hitting manufacturing industry and jobs. As the hon. Member for Edmonton (Mr. Love) said, it also caused problems within the housing market, favouring one form of tenure over another.

Daveyboy1961

turbotubbs said:

dixiedean said:

This Ed Davey mortgage subsidy plan is bonkers.

Yep. Direct contrast with Sunak saying that government cannot solve all problems. At some point interests rates were going to go up. If you borrowed a lot of money without stress checking the repayment, then more fool you.

spoken like a true "i'm all right jack".

No amount of stress testing could foresee the cliff face rise, rather than any long term gentler rise which most people would have been able to cope with.

Daveyboy1961

Daveyboy1961 said:

turbotubbs said:

dixiedean said:

This Ed Davey mortgage subsidy plan is bonkers.

Yep. Direct contrast with Sunak saying that government cannot solve all problems. At some point interests rates were going to go up. If you borrowed a lot of money without stress checking the repayment, then more fool you.

spoken like a true "i'm all right jack".

No amount of stress testing could foresee the cliff face rise, rather than any long term gentler rise which most people would have been able to cope with.

correction, " a lot more people...."

londonpubman

dixiedean said:

This Ed Davey mortgage subsidy plan is bonkers.

Absolute insanity. Good job they are a long way from power!

wooliedyed

eek said:

HYUFD said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

And even if Sunak and Hunt do manage to balance the books by the next election the public may not be grateful if their taxes have gone up and public services been cut to pay for it.

However Labour would then face the same problem, fiscal discipline as the markets will want or a spending spree which would be as unaffordable as Truss' tax cuts were, unless paid for by significantly higher taxes which would also be unpopular and hit growth. The cost of living issue is also not going away until there is peace between Russia and Ukraine

So Labour campaigns in 2-24 on not being the Tories and spends from 2025 to 2032 saying “love to increase spending but you know that mess the Tory party created we are still trying to fix it“.

That only requires a tiny bit of party discipline and guess what SKS has started to implement - party discipline.

Trouble with that is we are seeing right now the pandemic etc has created a febrile electorate who absolutely won't spend 7 years giving benefit of the doubt. There will be no appetite/tolerance for a second near decade of austerity in 20 years

Malmesbury

DecrepiterJohnL said:

@PBModerator Thread shows as Page Not Found on Vanilla.

Banning @TheScreamingEagles backfires?

DecrepiterJohnL

another_richard said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

another_richard said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

Even worse will be when people find the government lied about the £2,500 energy cap.

The people finding that out likely having made no attempt to be more energy efficient.

So naturally they'll blame the government for not giving them even more subsidies.

They will blame the government for lying to them. Liz Truss in particular.

Politicians exaggerating is assumed.

But on fuel prices the deal was obviously that prices were rising and that the government would help but that people would have to be more energy efficient.

And being more energy efficient often turned out to be quite easy to do, has long term financial benefits and is good for the environment.

Of course there will be people who think they're entitled to use as much energy as they want to do in as inefficient manner as they like with someone else contributing the money for the higher prices.

No doubt, but they will believe that because that is what they were told by HMG from the Prime Minister downwards. I blame Boris, whose repeated misstatements were allowed to go uncorrected and even unchallenged by the Opposition. Others might look back to the benefits promised to Scotland in Sindyref, from either side.

Alphabet_Soup

Leon said:

An impressively tragic scene of Russian soldiers in Ukraine “enjoying” some shipped-in entertainment

https://twitter.com/golub/status/1589205666597855232?s=46&t=Uof-e8KTryQ2iVIJe-YErA

An apt tweet in the thread summarises it perfectly:


“Mental hospital does sing-along in mud because they have no buildings.”

Did those women really make it out of there with their honour intact?

Daveyboy1961

londonpubman said:

dixiedean said:

This Ed Davey mortgage subsidy plan is bonkers.

Absolute insanity. Good job they are a long way from power!

why is it insanity? We had Miras in the past. The hike in energy bills has resulted in energy subsidies.

Alphabet_Soup

Talking of Twitter, where are all these adverts that Musk is about to lose? I only ever follow a link to a tweet, usually posted on here, but I've never seen an ad for anything. What am I doing right?

another_richard

eek said:

another_richard said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

another_richard said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

Even worse will be when people find the government lied about the £2,500 energy cap.

The people finding that out likely having made no attempt to be more energy efficient.

So naturally they'll blame the government for not giving them even more subsidies.

They will blame the government for lying to them. Liz Truss in particular.

Politicians exaggerating is assumed.

But on fuel prices the deal was obviously that prices were rising and that the government would help but that people would have to be more energy efficient.

And being more energy efficient often turned out to be quite easy to do, has long term financial benefits and is good for the environment.

Of course there will be people who think they're entitled to use as much energy as they want to do in as inefficient manner as they like with someone else contributing the money for the higher prices.

No they didn’t.

Even JRM saw the need for a campaign on energy efficiency but Truss and co vetoed the approved campaign.

Truss was mad and is no longer there.

But there have been no shortage of energy efficient advice from multiple different sources.

Here's one from the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62738249

and here are two others from 2021:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58913875
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58967580

and another from 2013:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01k6sts

Anyone who wants to be more energy efficient can find advice without difficulty.

The number of people who would have reduced energy consumption only because of an official government campaign is minimal.

Driver

Daveyboy1961 said:

turbotubbs said:

dixiedean said:

This Ed Davey mortgage subsidy plan is bonkers.

Yep. Direct contrast with Sunak saying that government cannot solve all problems. At some point interests rates were going to go up. If you borrowed a lot of money without stress checking the repayment, then more fool you.

spoken like a true "i'm all right jack".

No amount of stress testing could foresee the cliff face rise, rather than any long term gentler rise which most people would have been able to cope with.

The longer the MPC kept rates too low, the more likely it was that there would be a sharp rise not a gentle rise.

Daveyboy1961

Ishmael_Z said:

dixiedean said:

This Ed Davey mortgage subsidy plan is bonkers.

Fabulous LOL at his contribution on the Finance Bill 2000

Mr. Edward Davey (Kingston and Surbiton): The Committee should not allow the demise of MIRAS to pass without some recognition of the work of those from all political parties who campaigned for its abolition over many years. People campaigned against it because it distorted the housing market and caused inflation, which resulted in higher interest rates for the wider economy, hitting manufacturing industry and jobs. As the hon. Member for Edmonton (Mr. Love) said, it also caused problems within the housing market, favouring one form of tenure over another.

times change, and policies do in response to events. I certainly wish we were back in a position to be able to remove subsidies, like in 2000. (or even 2010 to 2015)

HYUFD

eek said:

HYUFD said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

And even if Sunak and Hunt do manage to balance the books by the next election the public may not be grateful if their taxes have gone up and public services been cut to pay for it.

However Labour would then face the same problem, fiscal discipline as the markets will want or a spending spree which would be as unaffordable as Truss' tax cuts were, unless paid for by significantly higher taxes which would also be unpopular and hit growth. The cost of living issue is also not going away until there is peace between Russia and Ukraine

So Labour campaigns in 2-24 on not being the Tories and spends from 2025 to 2032 saying “love to increase spending but you know that mess the Tory party created we are still trying to fix it“.

That only requires a tiny bit of party discipline and guess what SKS has started to implement - party discipline.

He would still face opposition from the Labour left and strikes from the unions

Alphabet_Soup

another_richard said:

eek said:

another_richard said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

another_richard said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

Even worse will be when people find the government lied about the £2,500 energy cap.

The people finding that out likely having made no attempt to be more energy efficient.

So naturally they'll blame the government for not giving them even more subsidies.

They will blame the government for lying to them. Liz Truss in particular.

Politicians exaggerating is assumed.

But on fuel prices the deal was obviously that prices were rising and that the government would help but that people would have to be more energy efficient.

And being more energy efficient often turned out to be quite easy to do, has long term financial benefits and is good for the environment.

Of course there will be people who think they're entitled to use as much energy as they want to do in as inefficient manner as they like with someone else contributing the money for the higher prices.

No they didn’t.

Even JRM saw the need for a campaign on energy efficiency but Truss and co vetoed the approved campaign.

Truss was mad and is no longer there.

But there have been no shortage of energy efficient advice from multiple different sources.

Here's one from the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62738249

and here are two others from 2021:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58913875
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58967580

and another from 2013:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01k6sts

Anyone who wants to be more energy efficient can find advice without difficulty.

The number of people who would have reduced energy consumption only because of an official government campaign is minimal.

Comparable, I should have thought, with the number of drivers who wear seatbelts because Jimmy Savile advised them to.

dixiedean

Daveyboy1961 said:

dixiedean said:

This Ed Davey mortgage subsidy plan is bonkers.

why?

Because. Reasons given above and below.
Also. The housing market badly needs a correction.
And what about renters?

londonpubman

Daveyboy1961 said:

londonpubman said:

dixiedean said:

This Ed Davey mortgage subsidy plan is bonkers.

Absolute insanity. Good job they are a long way from power!

why is it insanity? We had Miras in the past. The hike in energy bills has resulted in energy subsidies.

People with mortgages have had historically exceptionally low rates for years. It couldn't go on for ever. People need to take responsibility for their financial decisions including mortgages. The State can't pay for everything!

DecrepiterJohnL

Alphabet_Soup said:

Leon said:

An impressively tragic scene of Russian soldiers in Ukraine “enjoying” some shipped-in entertainment

https://twitter.com/golub/status/1589205666597855232?s=46&t=Uof-e8KTryQ2iVIJe-YErA

An apt tweet in the thread summarises it perfectly:


“Mental hospital does sing-along in mud because they have no buildings.”

Did those women really make it out of there with their honour intact?

It Ain't Half Cold, Mum.

wooliedyed

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

eek

HYUFD said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

And even if Sunak and Hunt do manage to balance the books by the next election the public may not be grateful if their taxes have gone up and public services been cut to pay for it.

However Labour would then face the same problem, fiscal discipline as the markets will want or a spending spree which would be as unaffordable as Truss' tax cuts were, unless paid for by significantly higher taxes which would also be unpopular and hit growth. The cost of living issue is also not going away until there is peace between Russia and Ukraine

So Labour campaigns in 2-24 on not being the Tories and spends from 2025 to 2032 saying “love to increase spending but you know that mess the Tory party created we are still trying to fix it“.

That only requires a tiny bit of party discipline and guess what SKS has started to implement - party discipline.

He would still face opposition from the Labour left and strikes from the unions

And? the simple fact is that the money needed doesn’t exist -because the Tory party wasted it.

Daveyboy1961

londonpubman said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

londonpubman said:

dixiedean said:

This Ed Davey mortgage subsidy plan is bonkers.

Absolute insanity. Good job they are a long way from power!

why is it insanity? We had Miras in the past. The hike in energy bills has resulted in energy subsidies.

People with mortgages have had historically exceptionally low rates for years. It couldn't go on for ever. People need to take responsibility for their financial decisions including mortgages. The State can't pay for everything!

Are there no workhouses?

eek

Driver said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

turbotubbs said:

dixiedean said:

This Ed Davey mortgage subsidy plan is bonkers.

Yep. Direct contrast with Sunak saying that government cannot solve all problems. At some point interests rates were going to go up. If you borrowed a lot of money without stress checking the repayment, then more fool you.

spoken like a true "i'm all right jack".

No amount of stress testing could foresee the cliff face rise, rather than any long term gentler rise which most people would have been able to cope with.

The longer the MPC kept rates too low, the more likely it was that there would be a sharp rise not a gentle rise.

The issue with interest rates remaining low is that the longer they remained low the more people thought low rates were permanent so adjusted their behaviour to reflect that fact.

Then as interest rates return to normal it will take people time to understand the new world.

williamglenn

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

We need a National Food Service to once again be the envy of the world. Eggs free at the point of demand.

DecrepiterJohnL

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

No eggs left in the supermarket last week. Speaking of which, if my own bills are representative, less well-off people are facing inflation on food and staples running higher than 10 per cent.

eek

Alphabet_Soup said:

Talking of Twitter, where are all these adverts that Musk is about to lose? I only ever follow a link to a tweet, usually posted on here, but I've never seen an ad for anything. What am I doing right?

The adverts appear in the timeline views. If you look at an individual tweet and the replies they don’t appear because there is greater risk of an advert appearing in the wrong context.

Sandpit

wooliedyed said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

And even if Sunak and Hunt do manage to balance the books by the next election the public may not be grateful if their taxes have gone up and public services been cut to pay for it.

However Labour would then face the same problem, fiscal discipline as the markets will want or a spending spree which would be as unaffordable as Truss' tax cuts were, unless paid for by significantly higher taxes which would also be unpopular and hit growth. The cost of living issue is also not going away until there is peace between Russia and Ukraine

So Labour campaigns in 2-24 on not being the Tories and spends from 2025 to 2032 saying “love to increase spending but you know that mess the Tory party created we are still trying to fix it“.

That only requires a tiny bit of party discipline and guess what SKS has started to implement - party discipline.

Trouble with that is we are seeing right now the pandemic etc has created a febrile electorate who absolutely won't spend 7 years giving benefit of the doubt. There will be no appetite/tolerance for a second near decade of austerity in 20 years

Yes, the next few years are going to be dominated by somewhat old-fashioned arguments of tax rates and the scope of the state.

wooliedyed

williamglenn said:

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

We need a National Food Service to once again be the envy of the world. Eggs free at the point of demand.

And dont forget the subsidised egg is worth the same as the egg in your pocket.
And now for a message from the National Flour board.

eek

DecrepiterJohnL said:

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

No eggs left in the supermarket last week. Speaking of which, if my own bills are representative, less well-off people are facing inflation on food and staples running higher than 10 per cent.

Way higher than 10%. I think milk has increased by 70% over the year used to be £2 for 4 litres at the corner shop now it’s £1.75 for 2 litres.

dixiedean

wooliedyed said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

And even if Sunak and Hunt do manage to balance the books by the next election the public may not be grateful if their taxes have gone up and public services been cut to pay for it.

However Labour would then face the same problem, fiscal discipline as the markets will want or a spending spree which would be as unaffordable as Truss' tax cuts were, unless paid for by significantly higher taxes which would also be unpopular and hit growth. The cost of living issue is also not going away until there is peace between Russia and Ukraine

So Labour campaigns in 2-24 on not being the Tories and spends from 2025 to 2032 saying “love to increase spending but you know that mess the Tory party created we are still trying to fix it“.

That only requires a tiny bit of party discipline and guess what SKS has started to implement - party discipline.

Trouble with that is we are seeing right now the pandemic etc has created a febrile electorate who absolutely won't spend 7 years giving benefit of the doubt. There will be no appetite/tolerance for a second near decade of austerity in 20 years

My school lost £541 per pupil in funding last year.
No working locks on toilets or doors. Only 2 working printers in an entire Secondary School, meaning a 10 minute walk then queue. Short staffed. Only voluntarily not taking our breaks is keeping the legal staff/pupil ratio going. Everyone researching the exit.
We can't double down on even bigger cuts and keep going.
What the government or voters' opinions are are irrelevant to the reality.

Alphabet_Soup

eek said:

Driver said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

turbotubbs said:

dixiedean said:

This Ed Davey mortgage subsidy plan is bonkers.

Yep. Direct contrast with Sunak saying that government cannot solve all problems. At some point interests rates were going to go up. If you borrowed a lot of money without stress checking the repayment, then more fool you.

spoken like a true "i'm all right jack".

No amount of stress testing could foresee the cliff face rise, rather than any long term gentler rise which most people would have been able to cope with.

The longer the MPC kept rates too low, the more likely it was that there would be a sharp rise not a gentle rise.

The issue with interest rates remaining low is that the longer they remained low the more people thought low rates were permanent so adjusted their behaviour to reflect that fact.

Then as interest rates return to normal it will take people time to understand the new world.

It wasn't just the MPC, though. There was an implicit agreement among central banks to keep interest rates on the floor indefinitely. If the MPC had broken ranks Sterling would have gone straight to the toilet and stayed there.

wooliedyed

dixiedean said:

wooliedyed said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

And even if Sunak and Hunt do manage to balance the books by the next election the public may not be grateful if their taxes have gone up and public services been cut to pay for it.

However Labour would then face the same problem, fiscal discipline as the markets will want or a spending spree which would be as unaffordable as Truss' tax cuts were, unless paid for by significantly higher taxes which would also be unpopular and hit growth. The cost of living issue is also not going away until there is peace between Russia and Ukraine

So Labour campaigns in 2-24 on not being the Tories and spends from 2025 to 2032 saying “love to increase spending but you know that mess the Tory party created we are still trying to fix it“.

That only requires a tiny bit of party discipline and guess what SKS has started to implement - party discipline.

Trouble with that is we are seeing right now the pandemic etc has created a febrile electorate who absolutely won't spend 7 years giving benefit of the doubt. There will be no appetite/tolerance for a second near decade of austerity in 20 years

My school lost £541 per pupil in funding last year.
No working locks on toilets or doors. Only 2 working printers in an entire Secondary School, meaning a 10 minute walk then queue. Short staffed. Only voluntarily not taking our breaks is keeping the legal staff/pupil ratio going. Everyone researching the exit.
We can't double down on even bigger cuts and keep going.

My sympathies. The current situation will claim successive governments or the markets will I suspect and we will end up with some right dodgy buggers promising Eden

turbotubbs

Daveyboy1961 said:

turbotubbs said:

dixiedean said:

This Ed Davey mortgage subsidy plan is bonkers.

Yep. Direct contrast with Sunak saying that government cannot solve all problems. At some point interests rates were going to go up. If you borrowed a lot of money without stress checking the repayment, then more fool you.

spoken like a true "i'm all right jack".

No amount of stress testing could foresee the cliff face rise, rather than any long term gentler rise which most people would have been able to cope with.

It was obvious rate rises were coming. See USA rates and extrapolate. We were on a tracker mortgage and are looking to extend so have agreed a 10 year fixed rate deal. Security of knowing what are payments will be in 2032. If you think that makes me ‘I’m alright Jack’ then so be it, I believe in personal responsibility with a safety net. Paying someone’s mortgage because interest rates have gone up is not personal responsibility. It didn’t happen when the rates hit 15% in the 80’s.

Jonathan

Honestly I’ve never seen anything like this Conservative Party. A complete 180.

Big tax cuts are essential to stem the current crisis and set the path to the future.
Big tax rises are essential to stem the current crisis and set the path to the future.

The same people have passionately supported both. Utterly bizarre.

wooliedyed

DecrepiterJohnL said:

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

No eggs left in the supermarket last week. Speaking of which, if my own bills are representative, less well-off people are facing inflation on food and staples running higher than 10 per cent.

Thrift skills are at a premium for the next decade imo. Yay for me, i was raised in thriftsville

eek

dixiedean said:

wooliedyed said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

And even if Sunak and Hunt do manage to balance the books by the next election the public may not be grateful if their taxes have gone up and public services been cut to pay for it.

However Labour would then face the same problem, fiscal discipline as the markets will want or a spending spree which would be as unaffordable as Truss' tax cuts were, unless paid for by significantly higher taxes which would also be unpopular and hit growth. The cost of living issue is also not going away until there is peace between Russia and Ukraine

So Labour campaigns in 2-24 on not being the Tories and spends from 2025 to 2032 saying “love to increase spending but you know that mess the Tory party created we are still trying to fix it“.

That only requires a tiny bit of party discipline and guess what SKS has started to implement - party discipline.

Trouble with that is we are seeing right now the pandemic etc has created a febrile electorate who absolutely won't spend 7 years giving benefit of the doubt. There will be no appetite/tolerance for a second near decade of austerity in 20 years

My school lost £541 per pupil in funding last year.
No working locks on toilets or doors. Only 2 working printers in an entire Secondary School, meaning a 10 minute walk then queue. Short staffed. Only voluntarily not taking our breaks is keeping the legal staff/pupil ratio going. Everyone researching the exit.
We can't double down on even bigger cuts and keep going.
What the government or voters' opinions are are irrelevant to the reality.

I think Covid, the Ukrainian war and Ms Truss has brought a forthcoming crisis forward 3-5 years from 2025/8 to 2022/3 and that means the Tory party are going to have to both carry the blame and fix the immediate crisis.

What I will say is that if you check history both the 1930’s and 2010 shows you that you can’t introduce austerity as that has unintended consequences (the f*** you Brexit vote being an obvious one)

Malmesbury

wooliedyed said:

williamglenn said:

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

We need a National Food Service to once again be the envy of the world. Eggs free at the point of demand.

And dont forget the subsidised egg is worth the same as the egg in your pocket.
And now for a message from the National Flour board.

Sadly, due to a drought in the Italian pasta fields, the pasta ration per week will be increased from 200g to 150g.

In related news, ground nut rations will increase from 200g per week to 150g, due to the success in the project to grow them in Africa.

Daveyboy1961

turbotubbs said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

turbotubbs said:

dixiedean said:

This Ed Davey mortgage subsidy plan is bonkers.

Yep. Direct contrast with Sunak saying that government cannot solve all problems. At some point interests rates were going to go up. If you borrowed a lot of money without stress checking the repayment, then more fool you.

spoken like a true "i'm all right jack".

No amount of stress testing could foresee the cliff face rise, rather than any long term gentler rise which most people would have been able to cope with.

It was obvious rate rises were coming. See USA rates and extrapolate. We were on a tracker mortgage and are looking to extend so have agreed a 10 year fixed rate deal. Security of knowing what are payments will be in 2032. If you think that makes me ‘I’m alright Jack’ then so be it, I believe in personal responsibility with a safety net. Paying someone’s mortgage because interest rates have gone up is not personal responsibility. It didn’t happen when the rates hit 15% in the 80’s.

My miras in the 80s helped reduce my payments a little.

Malmesbury

eek said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

No eggs left in the supermarket last week. Speaking of which, if my own bills are representative, less well-off people are facing inflation on food and staples running higher than 10 per cent.

Way higher than 10%. I think milk has increased by 70% over the year used to be £2 for 4 litres at the corner shop now it’s £1.75 for 2 litres.

Had a funny conversation yesterday. Chap I row with was telling me that (a) his daughter was making good money working in the student Union bar, unlike in his day and (b) the price of everything is rocketing.

I actually had to join the dots…

wooliedyed

Malmesbury said:

wooliedyed said:

williamglenn said:

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

We need a National Food Service to once again be the envy of the world. Eggs free at the point of demand.

And dont forget the subsidised egg is worth the same as the egg in your pocket.
And now for a message from the National Flour board.

Sadly, due to a drought in the Italian pasta fields, the pasta ration per week will be increased from 200g to 150g.

In related news, ground nut rations will increase from 200g per week to 150g, due to the success in the project to grow them in Africa.

And don't forget we have enough British Turnips for the rest of the year.

HYUFD

Jonathan said:

Honestly I’ve never seen anything like this Conservative Party. A complete 180.

Big tax cuts are essential to stem the current crisis and set the path to the future.
Big tax rises are essential to stem the current crisis and set the path to the future.

The same people have passionately supported both. Utterly bizarre.

They haven't, Truss supporters generally supported the former, Sunak supporters generally supported the latter plus spending cuts

wooliedyed

Malmesbury said:

eek said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

No eggs left in the supermarket last week. Speaking of which, if my own bills are representative, less well-off people are facing inflation on food and staples running higher than 10 per cent.

Way higher than 10%. I think milk has increased by 70% over the year used to be £2 for 4 litres at the corner shop now it’s £1.75 for 2 litres.

Had a funny conversation yesterday. Chap I row with was telling me that (a) his daughter was making good money working in the student Union bar, unlike in his day and (b) the price of everything is rocketing.

I actually had to join the dots…

Paid?! We used to get beer tokens

Jonathan

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

Honestly I’ve never seen anything like this Conservative Party. A complete 180.

Big tax cuts are essential to stem the current crisis and set the path to the future.
Big tax rises are essential to stem the current crisis and set the path to the future.

The same people have passionately supported both. Utterly bizarre.

They haven't, Truss supporters generally supported the former, Sunak supporters generally supported the latter plus spending cuts

That’s not completely true is it. The broad mass of ministers, members, cheerleaders and supporters go along with the policy du jour.

Despite Truss’ disaster, I would expect some prominent Tories to say ‘hang on, isn’t that completely different to what we want to do and have been advocating for years’. It’s genuinely bizarre.

SandyRentool

wooliedyed said:

williamglenn said:

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

We need a National Food Service to once again be the envy of the world. Eggs free at the point of demand.

And dont forget the subsidised egg is worth the same as the egg in your pocket.
And now for a message from the National Flour board.

Is that an egg in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?

Malmesbury

wooliedyed said:

Malmesbury said:

wooliedyed said:

williamglenn said:

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

We need a National Food Service to once again be the envy of the world. Eggs free at the point of demand.

And dont forget the subsidised egg is worth the same as the egg in your pocket.
And now for a message from the National Flour board.

Sadly, due to a drought in the Italian pasta fields, the pasta ration per week will be increased from 200g to 150g.

In related news, ground nut rations will increase from 200g per week to 150g, due to the success in the project to grow them in Africa.

And don't forget we have enough British Turnips for the rest of the year.

@malcolmg has used much of the crop for making cask strength turnip juice….

wooliedyed

SandyRentool said:

wooliedyed said:

williamglenn said:

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

We need a National Food Service to once again be the envy of the world. Eggs free at the point of demand.

And dont forget the subsidised egg is worth the same as the egg in your pocket.
And now for a message from the National Flour board.

Is that an egg in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?

Saucy!
Im pencilling on a thin tash and planning on trading black market stockings, squirrel meat and eggs to the hard pressed housewife

Malmesbury

wooliedyed said:

Malmesbury said:

eek said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

No eggs left in the supermarket last week. Speaking of which, if my own bills are representative, less well-off people are facing inflation on food and staples running higher than 10 per cent.

Way higher than 10%. I think milk has increased by 70% over the year used to be £2 for 4 litres at the corner shop now it’s £1.75 for 2 litres.

Had a funny conversation yesterday. Chap I row with was telling me that (a) his daughter was making good money working in the student Union bar, unlike in his day and (b) the price of everything is rocketing.

I actually had to join the dots…

Paid?! We used to get beer tokens

Years ago, when I was growing up in Oxford, at the end of the night, the good pubs would clean the lines. First, use water to push the beer out of the lines. Into a line of pint glasses.

Then the cleaning solution. Then water again.

Staff and friends of staff got the spare pints….

wooliedyed

Malmesbury said:

wooliedyed said:

Malmesbury said:

wooliedyed said:

williamglenn said:

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

We need a National Food Service to once again be the envy of the world. Eggs free at the point of demand.

And dont forget the subsidised egg is worth the same as the egg in your pocket.
And now for a message from the National Flour board.

Sadly, due to a drought in the Italian pasta fields, the pasta ration per week will be increased from 200g to 150g.

In related news, ground nut rations will increase from 200g per week to 150g, due to the success in the project to grow them in Africa.

And don't forget we have enough British Turnips for the rest of the year.

@malcolmg has used much of the crop for making cask strength turnip juice….

Hooch from heaven. I'll be flogging that from my black market cart too

Malmesbury

wooliedyed said:

Malmesbury said:

wooliedyed said:

Malmesbury said:

wooliedyed said:

williamglenn said:

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

We need a National Food Service to once again be the envy of the world. Eggs free at the point of demand.

And dont forget the subsidised egg is worth the same as the egg in your pocket.
And now for a message from the National Flour board.

Sadly, due to a drought in the Italian pasta fields, the pasta ration per week will be increased from 200g to 150g.

In related news, ground nut rations will increase from 200g per week to 150g, due to the success in the project to grow them in Africa.

And don't forget we have enough British Turnips for the rest of the year.

@malcolmg has used much of the crop for making cask strength turnip juice….

Hooch from heaven. I'll be flogging that from my black market cart too

CutMeOwnThroatDibbler Walt.

wooliedyed

Malmesbury said:

wooliedyed said:

Malmesbury said:

eek said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

No eggs left in the supermarket last week. Speaking of which, if my own bills are representative, less well-off people are facing inflation on food and staples running higher than 10 per cent.

Way higher than 10%. I think milk has increased by 70% over the year used to be £2 for 4 litres at the corner shop now it’s £1.75 for 2 litres.

Had a funny conversation yesterday. Chap I row with was telling me that (a) his daughter was making good money working in the student Union bar, unlike in his day and (b) the price of everything is rocketing.

I actually had to join the dots…

Paid?! We used to get beer tokens

Years ago, when I was growing up in Oxford, at the end of the night, the good pubs would clean the lines. First, use water to push the beer out of the lines. Into a line of pint glasses.

Then the cleaning solution. Then water again.

Staff and friends of staff got the spare pints….

Line cleaning is a feckin' pain in the arse. Second worst part of being a landlord, after customers

malcolmg

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Alphabet_Soup said:

Leon said:

An impressively tragic scene of Russian soldiers in Ukraine “enjoying” some shipped-in entertainment

https://twitter.com/golub/status/1589205666597855232?s=46&t=Uof-e8KTryQ2iVIJe-YErA

An apt tweet in the thread summarises it perfectly:


“Mental hospital does sing-along in mud because they have no buildings.”

Did those women really make it out of there with their honour intact?

It Ain't Half Cold, Mum.

That is shocking, enough alone to make you surrender to the first Ukrian you could see. Is it any wonder they are getting skelped.

Malmesbury

wooliedyed said:

Malmesbury said:

wooliedyed said:

Malmesbury said:

eek said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

No eggs left in the supermarket last week. Speaking of which, if my own bills are representative, less well-off people are facing inflation on food and staples running higher than 10 per cent.

Way higher than 10%. I think milk has increased by 70% over the year used to be £2 for 4 litres at the corner shop now it’s £1.75 for 2 litres.

Had a funny conversation yesterday. Chap I row with was telling me that (a) his daughter was making good money working in the student Union bar, unlike in his day and (b) the price of everything is rocketing.

I actually had to join the dots…

Paid?! We used to get beer tokens

Years ago, when I was growing up in Oxford, at the end of the night, the good pubs would clean the lines. First, use water to push the beer out of the lines. Into a line of pint glasses.

Then the cleaning solution. Then water again.

Staff and friends of staff got the spare pints….

Line cleaning is a feckin' pain in the arse. Second worst part of being a landlord, after customers

Strangely, the landlords that gave out the free pints did it on the basis of “mates of the bar staff who are sensible enough to help out” - which usually meant the staff doubled at the point where they were doing the clear up and cleaning.

All parties satisfied etc…

malcolmg

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

Tories are going to get both barrels David even though the alternative is Starmer.

Gardenwalker

Good morning.

Just got back from my run, it is 22 degrees here, the marathoners (which includes my daughter’s Grade 2 teacher) are going to swelter.

I’m not sure what the thread header is supposed to be; is it about how crap the Tories are?

The next Labour campaign writes itself.

Tax at 80 yr high.
Failing public services.
Longest recession in history.
Slowest growth in the G7.

The Tories: Don’t risk another 5 years of this shit.

Casino_Royale

Roast pheasant with game chips in the Casino household today. All the trimmings.

Real ale (Goddards and Triple FFF) helping to seal the deal. Cornish clotted cream ice cream and fresh fruit to seal the deal.

Bliss.

eek

malcolmg said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

Tories are going to get both barrels David even though the alternative is Starmer.

Partly because the alternative is Starmer and therefore bearable while Corbyn wasn’t.

Mind you I think Corbyn would be sat on at least 40% at the moment

Malmesbury

malcolmg said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Alphabet_Soup said:

Leon said:

An impressively tragic scene of Russian soldiers in Ukraine “enjoying” some shipped-in entertainment

https://twitter.com/golub/status/1589205666597855232?s=46&t=Uof-e8KTryQ2iVIJe-YErA

An apt tweet in the thread summarises it perfectly:


“Mental hospital does sing-along in mud because they have no buildings.”

Did those women really make it out of there with their honour intact?

It Ain't Half Cold, Mum.

That is shocking, enough alone to make you surrender to the first Ukrian you could see. Is it any wonder they are getting skelped.

The *pro-Russian* videos of trading and conditions are like this. Even allowing for propaganda, the Ukrainians appear to have mastered the Satanic (tm) art of feeding, clothing and training their army.

wooliedyed

Malmesbury said:

wooliedyed said:

Malmesbury said:

wooliedyed said:

Malmesbury said:

eek said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

No eggs left in the supermarket last week. Speaking of which, if my own bills are representative, less well-off people are facing inflation on food and staples running higher than 10 per cent.

Way higher than 10%. I think milk has increased by 70% over the year used to be £2 for 4 litres at the corner shop now it’s £1.75 for 2 litres.

Had a funny conversation yesterday. Chap I row with was telling me that (a) his daughter was making good money working in the student Union bar, unlike in his day and (b) the price of everything is rocketing.

I actually had to join the dots…

Paid?! We used to get beer tokens

Years ago, when I was growing up in Oxford, at the end of the night, the good pubs would clean the lines. First, use water to push the beer out of the lines. Into a line of pint glasses.

Then the cleaning solution. Then water again.

Staff and friends of staff got the spare pints….

Line cleaning is a feckin' pain in the arse. Second worst part of being a landlord, after customers

Strangely, the landlords that gave out the free pints did it on the basis of “mates of the bar staff who are sensible enough to help out” - which usually meant the staff doubled at the point where they were doing the clear up and cleaning.

All parties satisfied etc…

Thats ok in big city pubs with a staff team. Local boozer on t'other hand......

Malmesbury

wooliedyed said:

Malmesbury said:

wooliedyed said:

Malmesbury said:

wooliedyed said:

Malmesbury said:

eek said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

No eggs left in the supermarket last week. Speaking of which, if my own bills are representative, less well-off people are facing inflation on food and staples running higher than 10 per cent.

Way higher than 10%. I think milk has increased by 70% over the year used to be £2 for 4 litres at the corner shop now it’s £1.75 for 2 litres.

Had a funny conversation yesterday. Chap I row with was telling me that (a) his daughter was making good money working in the student Union bar, unlike in his day and (b) the price of everything is rocketing.

I actually had to join the dots…

Paid?! We used to get beer tokens

Years ago, when I was growing up in Oxford, at the end of the night, the good pubs would clean the lines. First, use water to push the beer out of the lines. Into a line of pint glasses.

Then the cleaning solution. Then water again.

Staff and friends of staff got the spare pints….

Line cleaning is a feckin' pain in the arse. Second worst part of being a landlord, after customers

Strangely, the landlords that gave out the free pints did it on the basis of “mates of the bar staff who are sensible enough to help out” - which usually meant the staff doubled at the point where they were doing the clear up and cleaning.

All parties satisfied etc…

Thats ok in big city pubs with a staff team. Local boozer on t'other hand......

All gone - health and safety, for a start.

HYUFD

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

Honestly I’ve never seen anything like this Conservative Party. A complete 180.

Big tax cuts are essential to stem the current crisis and set the path to the future.
Big tax rises are essential to stem the current crisis and set the path to the future.

The same people have passionately supported both. Utterly bizarre.

They haven't, Truss supporters generally supported the former, Sunak supporters generally supported the latter plus spending cuts

That’s not completely true is it. The broad mass of ministers, members, cheerleaders and supporters go along with the policy du jour.

Despite Truss’ disaster, I would expect some prominent Tories to say ‘hang on, isn’t that completely different to what we want to do and have been advocating for years’. It’s genuinely bizarre.

The advocates of the big tax cuts plan ie Truss and Kwarteng supported by the likes of JRM have left the Cabinet, Sunak has also not appointed proponents of the Truss tax cut plan like Redwood.

Instead the PM and Chancellor and Chief Secretary were not in the Truss Cabinet but largely her opponents on the back benches.

We have a different government to the one we had in September even if still a Tory government

wooliedyed

Casino_Royale said:

Roast pheasant with game chips in the Casino household today. All the trimmings.

Real ale (Goddards and Triple FFF) helping to seal the deal. Cornish clotted cream ice cream and fresh fruit to seal the deal.

Bliss.

Im off up to Pa Woolies to do things to a chicken for the family. Because i'm a good boy

Leon

God Save the KING at Twickers. Poignant. And in the rain

Gardenwalker

Casino_Royale said:

Roast pheasant with game chips in the Casino household today. All the trimmings.

Real ale (Goddards and Triple FFF) helping to seal the deal. Cornish clotted cream ice cream and fresh fruit to seal the deal.

Bliss.

Bread sauce? Hope so.

Carnyx

wooliedyed said:

Malmesbury said:

eek said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

No eggs left in the supermarket last week. Speaking of which, if my own bills are representative, less well-off people are facing inflation on food and staples running higher than 10 per cent.

Way higher than 10%. I think milk has increased by 70% over the year used to be £2 for 4 litres at the corner shop now it’s £1.75 for 2 litres.

Had a funny conversation yesterday. Chap I row with was telling me that (a) his daughter was making good money working in the student Union bar, unlike in his day and (b) the price of everything is rocketing.

I actually had to join the dots…

Paid?! We used to get beer tokens

What do you think pound notes were (in a student context), at least in the days before student loans?

Nigelb

wooliedyed said:

Malmesbury said:

wooliedyed said:

williamglenn said:

wooliedyed said:

Government egg subsidy required. My eggs have gone up again.
Full subsidised rationing now!

We need a National Food Service to once again be the envy of the world. Eggs free at the point of demand.

And dont forget the subsidised egg is worth the same as the egg in your pocket.
And now for a message from the National Flour board.

Sadly, due to a drought in the Italian pasta fields, the pasta ration per week will be increased from 200g to 150g.

In related news, ground nut rations will increase from 200g per week to 150g, due to the success in the project to grow them in Africa.

And don't forget we have enough British Turnips for the rest of the year.

Bring back the Woolton Pie.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolton_pie

MoonRabbit

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

Firstly, this year there has been a lot of blaming the Tory party for economic bungling… by the Tory Party. So much blue on blue for months now. The conclusion is, why shouldn’t voters blame the Tories for mistakes?

Secondly what makes you or anyone believe Sunak’s growth killing, tax raising budget is the right thing to do right now? Politically he’s ensured the Tories fight the next election on highest tax take for 80 years, 2 years of poor growth if not recession and likely lowest growth in G7 as predicted. There might even be a contentious whiff on unfair austerity in the air. Political suicide plan, but is it even smart economics?

Gardenwalker

Never mind MIRAS, pubs should be heavily subsidised.

HEAVILY.

But in a way that somehow preserves the characterfully squalid ones and disincentivises the big pubcos.

They really are the best thing about the UK.
Nothing like them anywhere.

I miss them like an old lover.

Gardenwalker

MoonRabbit said:

DavidL said:

As I said on the previous thread we are about to have an eyewatering budget that will upset a lot of people.

Will the general public accept that this is Hunt/Sunak telling it as it is or will they blame them for the very unfortunate consequences of past mistakes? It is possible the lead on the economy will not survive next week. The polling indicates most people are delusional about where we are.

Firstly, this year there has been a lot of blaming the Tory party for economic bungling… by the Tory Party. So much blue on blue for months now. The conclusion is, why shouldn’t voters blame the Tories for mistakes?

Secondly what makes you or anyone believe Sunak’s growth killing, tax raising budget is the right thing to do right now? Politically he’s ensured the Tories fight the next election on highest tax take for 80 years, 2 years of poor growth if not recession and likely lowest growth in G7 as predicted. There might even be a contentious whiff on unfair austerity in the air. Political suicide plan, but is it even smart economics?

If, as DavidL noted above, the government are committed to reducing debt to GDP and growth is expected to be negative, Rishi/Hunt are embarked on some kind of 1930s style contraction.

turbotubbs

Shit atmosphere at twickenham.

Leon

Gardenwalker said:

Good morning.

Just got back from my run, it is 22 degrees here, the marathoners (which includes my daughter’s Grade 2 teacher) are going to swelter.

I’m not sure what the thread header is supposed to be; is it about how crap the Tories are?

The next Labour campaign writes itself.

Tax at 80 yr high.
Failing public services.
Longest recession in history.
Slowest growth in the G7.

The Tories: Don’t risk another 5 years of this shit.

It could all get a lot worse. Don't forget that

AI is just one of the threats, there are so many

"If A.I. is going to destroy most routine, cognitive, and even creative jobs, eventually you’ll have a problem. Massive technological unemployment is permanent for people, and it’s not their fault. This is not because they didn’t study hard enough; it’s not that they were lazy and didn’t want to work, they’re just having bad luck. Their job, their income, their sector, their firm, even their whole industry could essentially be replaced by A.I. machine learning."

I mean, it’s a very dystopian world in which people don’t have jobs, they don’t have skills, they don’t have income. What do they do all day long? They play video games, they are incels because they can’t even find a mate, and they do drugs, and then they die. It’s happening already now."

https://fortune.com/2022/11/06/nouriel-roubini-interview-recession-inflation-great-depression-universal-basic-income-dr-doom/

Leon

turbotubbs said:

Shit atmosphere at twickenham.

Rain, war, poverty, dead Queen, end of civilisation, Finito

MarqueeMark

Remarkable. So many dead Russian troops, the cemeteries are full. They are being buried by the side of the road.

https://twitter.com/TWMCLtd/status/1589256236897566721

turbotubbs

Shit atmosphere at twickenham.

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Shit atmosphere at twickenham.

Rain, war, poverty, dead Queen, end of civilisation, Finito

I’m blaming the anthem.

FrankBooth

The fiscal position is a consequence of the growth position. Why are we struggling to get back our the output level pre-covid? Some will say Brexit, indeed that ought to be a major area of investigation.

Gardenwalker

Leon said:

Gardenwalker said:

Good morning.

Just got back from my run, it is 22 degrees here, the marathoners (which includes my daughter’s Grade 2 teacher) are going to swelter.

I’m not sure what the thread header is supposed to be; is it about how crap the Tories are?

The next Labour campaign writes itself.

Tax at 80 yr high.
Failing public services.
Longest recession in history.
Slowest growth in the G7.

The Tories: Don’t risk another 5 years of this shit.

It could all get a lot worse. Don't forget that

AI is just one of the threats, there are so many

"If A.I. is going to destroy most routine, cognitive, and even creative jobs, eventually you’ll have a problem. Massive technological unemployment is permanent for people, and it’s not their fault. This is not because they didn’t study hard enough; it’s not that they were lazy and didn’t want to work, they’re just having bad luck. Their job, their income, their sector, their firm, even their whole industry could essentially be replaced by A.I. machine learning."

I mean, it’s a very dystopian world in which people don’t have jobs, they don’t have skills, they don’t have income. What do they do all day long? They play video games, they are incels because they can’t even find a mate, and they do drugs, and then they die. It’s happening already now."

https://fortune.com/2022/11/06/nouriel-roubini-interview-recession-inflation-great-depression-universal-basic-income-dr-doom/

Of course it could get worse.
If the Tories win the next election, for example.
Or, shudder, if Trump returns in the US.

Neither Tories nor Trump give the tiniest of shits about the issues Roubini talks about.

Martin10

Leon said:

Gardenwalker said:

Good morning.

Just got back from my run, it is 22 degrees here, the marathoners (which includes my daughter’s Grade 2 teacher) are going to swelter.

I’m not sure what the thread header is supposed to be; is it about how crap the Tories are?

The next Labour campaign writes itself.

Tax at 80 yr high.
Failing public services.
Longest recession in history.
Slowest growth in the G7.

The Tories: Don’t risk another 5 years of this shit.

It could all get a lot worse. Don't forget that

AI is just one of the threats, there are so many

"If A.I. is going to destroy most routine, cognitive, and even creative jobs, eventually you’ll have a problem. Massive technological unemployment is permanent for people, and it’s not their fault. This is not because they didn’t study hard enough; it’s not that they were lazy and didn’t want to work, they’re just having bad luck. Their job, their income, their sector, their firm, even their whole industry could essentially be replaced by A.I. machine learning."

I mean, it’s a very dystopian world in which people don’t have jobs, they don’t have skills, they don’t have income. What do they do all day long? They play video games, they are incels because they can’t even find a mate, and they do drugs, and then they die. It’s happening already now."

https://fortune.com/2022/11/06/nouriel-roubini-interview-recession-inflation-great-depression-universal-basic-income-dr-doom/

5 million people have disappeared from US workforce since covid...maybe they are all doing drugs and playing video games

Leon

Gardenwalker said:

Leon said:

Gardenwalker said:

Good morning.

Just got back from my run, it is 22 degrees here, the marathoners (which includes my daughter’s Grade 2 teacher) are going to swelter.

I’m not sure what the thread header is supposed to be; is it about how crap the Tories are?

The next Labour campaign writes itself.

Tax at 80 yr high.
Failing public services.
Longest recession in history.
Slowest growth in the G7.

The Tories: Don’t risk another 5 years of this shit.

It could all get a lot worse. Don't forget that

AI is just one of the threats, there are so many

"If A.I. is going to destroy most routine, cognitive, and even creative jobs, eventually you’ll have a problem. Massive technological unemployment is permanent for people, and it’s not their fault. This is not because they didn’t study hard enough; it’s not that they were lazy and didn’t want to work, they’re just having bad luck. Their job, their income, their sector, their firm, even their whole industry could essentially be replaced by A.I. machine learning."

I mean, it’s a very dystopian world in which people don’t have jobs, they don’t have skills, they don’t have income. What do they do all day long? They play video games, they are incels because they can’t even find a mate, and they do drugs, and then they die. It’s happening already now."

https://fortune.com/2022/11/06/nouriel-roubini-interview-recession-inflation-great-depression-universal-basic-income-dr-doom/

Of course it could get worse.
If the Tories win the next election, for example.
Or, shudder, if Trump returns in the US.

Neither Tories nor Trump give the tiniest of shits about the issues Roubini talks about.

That's idiotic hyperbole. Of course Tories give a fuck about climate change. Not least because climate change is a driver of migration, which is only going to get worse