This morning the British ambassador in Paris handed the French government a final note stating that unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were prepared at once to prevent all further migrant channel crossings, a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with France.
Problem solved. Strafe the fuckers, because who knows they are not operation Sealion all over again?
I am genuinely astonished to see that post has been liked by somebody who isn't TSE.
I am genuinely astonished to see that post has been liked.
Every time I'm in a Travelodge on a work trip I wish I was in a Premier Inn.
Every time I'm in either I wish I was at home.
After a particularly miserable experience a few months ago at a Premier Inn in Wiltshire I decided if I was going only for one night, even if I had to set my alarm for 3am I was sleeping at home and driving down.
Of course, that's easier to do in Cannock than say, Northumberland.
Sky have just announced that from the 7th November all poultry have to be kept indoors in England due to Avian flu which looks very serious
I listened to a report on this a couple of days ago that said the Ministry of Agriculture has approved the early slaughter of turkeys and to be frozen and then thawed to sell as fresh at Christmas
I expect this will have an effect on the availability of Christmas turkeys and I would be very annoyed if I bought a fresh one for it to have been frozen previously
Turkey is a shit meat anyway, were it any good we'd eat it year round. We don't. It's rubbish. Have rib of beef instead.
When did the English start eating an American species at Christmas? Christmas has been celebrated in England for almost 2000 years. I’m assuming that for the first 1700 years or so they ate something else at feasts.
I’m on ma tod this Christmas, so for like the first time ever, I can eat what the hell I like. It’ll definitely not be American turkey, not Swedish ham. Maybe steak pie? Lamb? Duck? I’ll have to have a wee think.
Steak and kidney pie with puff pastry, perhaps. Thouhg a pie for one is a bit pastry heavy, and there is always the next day question if you don't eat it all. Lamb - you can have stovies and beetroot with cold lamb on the 26th and curry on the 27th
Edit: almopst forgotten this. But will it ever be as good as Mum's? Best try one ahead of time.
Oh FFS! If the right wingers REALLY want to stop immigration, they would dig a funeral pit and execute all illegal immigrants / channel crossers into it and broadcast it on BBC World Service. I guarantee you it would stop mass immigration.
But nobody is going to do that so these people are going to keep arriving and you are going to have to spend money on solving the problem instead of listening to total w*nkers like Farage, Braverman and the other loons.
Grow up and wipe the drool of your chins and the spittle off your screens. And while we are at it, just remember that if we had stayed in the EU we could have forced immigrants to be resettled back on the continent.
And after that post I think I could do with some time away from politics and the utter whinge-fest and self-serving denial of reality from our own PB loons that passes for "solutions".
Good night and good luck!
How could we force immigrants to be resettled back to the continent if we were in the EU
I utterly reject the right but to suggest money and being in the EU would solve the problem is simply unrealistic
Maybe you could detail exactly how you would prevent these terrible crossings rather than a rant
This is a much better debate on here on this, than the House of Commons just had.
Big G responding to questions at the governments dispatch box, leaving less hostages to fortune than Sievella’s answers.
Can I just remind the Rt Hon Member for Windswept Coastline North Wales, what our esteemed PB friend and colleague RCS, Rt Hon Member for the Flame Imperishable, explained to us as to why Labour wont have any issue at all with migrants crossing channel, when they are in power. It needs to be issued again here in this debate. Preferably by RSC Ilúvatar himself.
Eh?
Ohhhhhh. I’m sure your analysis was this problem would just disappear, sometime soon?
By all means call me out if I have got that wrong, I will take your word for it and not go searching back through old comments.
Your team mates are waiting for you to bring your percipient thoughts to this “the only answer is stop the crossings” debate 🫡
This morning the British ambassador in Paris handed the French government a final note stating that unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were prepared at once to prevent all further migrant channel crossings, a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with France.
Problem solved. Strafe the fuckers, because who knows they are not operation Sealion all over again?
The whole point of the Braverman performance was to tick every hard right box imaginable, using the most inflammatory language, and so to make it impossible for Sunak to sack her without major political repercussions. Her message to him is basically: "If I go, you do too". And Sunak's problem is that she could well be right.
The thing is, she knows she is right; the current level of boat people is unsustainable, and when you know there's no comeback, you can go completely ham on something and challenge people to oppose you.
What is more challenging for her is solving the damn thing.
It's a classic dividing line issue, thought, because the Left - and plenty of (most?) liberal centrists too - refuse to accept it's even an issue, and to the extent they do they argue to make it easier, and therefore cede the entire terrain to the Conservatives - even though they have abjectly failed to solve it.
It's clever politics. It's risky for the Conservatives only if they get outflanked to the Right.
They have to deliver. That's the risk.
They don't, as long as they have someone to blame for the failure- probably Human Rights Lawyers. In fact for some people, solving the problem would render them obsolete and that would never do.
It's horrible, but the retail politics makes sense.
Rhetoric without delivery after 12 years of power will not reap rewards. Most people are not hate-filled Daily Mail readers who view refugees as sub-human scum who deserve firebombing, diphtheria and detention. They just want solutions. If the Tories are not providing any they will look elsewhere.
They want solutions which don't involve shelling out £200/person/night indefinitely, though.
Tell Premier Inn you are only paying £100 a night.
When they object ask if they want a health & safety inspection. Of every facility. Every week. Until they agree.
Naah, I stayed in the premier inn (or possibly travelodge?) at cullompton services a bit ago, because an Irish transport firm wanted to drop off a horse for me there at 4 in the morning. Fabulously clean, fab bed. Ditto identikit airport hotels in this coubntry. It's the one off olde character innes that's vulnerable to h & S.
On our half-term trip we stayed at a Premier Inn and a Travelodge. Neither are anything special - in the least - but both provided clean accommodation and a good breakfast. Job done.
I don't stay in hotels or B&B's as much as I used to, but IME it's hard to get really bad experiences in the chains. But also quite hard to get brilliant experiences in them as well.
The value bet with Premier Inn is to pass on dinner - which is only sort of OK at most places - and major on breakfast, which tends to be very good indeed.
The whole point of the Braverman performance was to tick every hard right box imaginable, using the most inflammatory language, and so to make it impossible for Sunak to sack her without major political repercussions. Her message to him is basically: "If I go, you do too". And Sunak's problem is that she could well be right.
The thing is, she knows she is right; the current level of boat people is unsustainable, and when you know there's no comeback, you can go completely ham on something and challenge people to oppose you.
What is more challenging for her is solving the damn thing.
It's a classic dividing line issue, thought, because the Left - and plenty of (most?) liberal centrists too - refuse to accept it's even an issue, and to the extent they do they argue to make it easier, and therefore cede the entire terrain to the Conservatives - even though they have abjectly failed to solve it.
It's clever politics. It's risky for the Conservatives only if they get outflanked to the Right.
They have to deliver. That's the risk.
They don't, as long as they have someone to blame for the failure- probably Human Rights Lawyers. In fact for some people, solving the problem would render them obsolete and that would never do.
It's horrible, but the retail politics makes sense.
Rhetoric without delivery after 12 years of power will not reap rewards. Most people are not hate-filled Daily Mail readers who view refugees as sub-human scum who deserve firebombing, diphtheria and detention. They just want solutions. If the Tories are not providing any they will look elsewhere.
They want solutions which don't involve shelling out £200/person/night indefinitely, though.
Tell Premier Inn you are only paying £100 a night.
When they object ask if they want a health & safety inspection. Of every facility. Every week. Until they agree.
I
would've thought that would cost more than the £100 a night it would save...
So I'm sure Braverman will think it's an excellent idea!
You’re not actually going to do it… or you just send one bloke with a clipboard in to shut down the hotel
Sky have just announced that from the 7th November all poultry have to be kept indoors in England due to Avian flu which looks very serious
I listened to a report on this a couple of days ago that said the Ministry of Agriculture has approved the early slaughter of turkeys and to be frozen and then thawed to sell as fresh at Christmas
I expect this will have an effect on the availability of Christmas turkeys and I would be very annoyed if I bought a fresh one for it to have been frozen previously
Turkey is a shit meat anyway, were it any good we'd eat it year round. We don't. It's rubbish. Have rib of beef instead.
When did the English start eating an American species at Christmas? Christmas has been celebrated in England for almost 2000 years. I’m assuming that for the first 1700 years or so they ate something else at feasts.
I’m on ma tod this Christmas, so for like the first time ever, I can eat what the hell I like. It’ll definitely not be American turkey, not Swedish ham. Maybe steak pie? Lamb? Duck? I’ll have to have a wee think.
Steak and kidney pie with puff pastry, perhaps. Thouhg a pie for one is a bit pastry heavy, and there is always the next day question if you don't eat it all. Lamb - you can have stovies and beetroot with cold lamb on the 26th and curry on the 27th
Edit: almopst forgotten this. But will it ever be as good as Mum's? Best try one ahead of time.
[google shopping for clootie dumpling]
Great minds think alike.
beetroot is horrible, though. Pickled red cabbage is the way forward.
"The system is broken. Illegal migration is out of control"
Braverman
Yet the party has had twelve years. Only twelve years to fix this.
While that’s partly fair, the boat crossings aspect is much more recent than 12 years ago. It is a global problem, and probably needs global change.
I was just looking at the stats.
Seems to have taken off in 2021, perhaps in response to Britain exiting the Dublin Agreement in January 21.
I’m surprised more has not been made of this connection.
"In 2018, the UK received a total of 37,453 asylum applications, and made 5,510 outgoing transfer requests under Dublin III. Of these 5,510 requests, 209 migrants were transferred out of the UK under Dublin III, whilst 1,215 came in, making the UK a net recipient in 2018. "
Only 4% of Dublin requests were accepted in 2018. 4%. 209 people.
It's an utter irrelevance.
We are also the outlier on both measures - we accept far more incoming requests (%) than others and don’t implement many outgoing requests
Yes, the reality is this only really works if they claim asylum in another EU country first, and we can prove it.
The vast vast majority coming across aren't stupid enough to make that rookie error.
I am more surprised at the 63%. Only Germany comes close (at 30%)
This morning the British ambassador in Paris handed the French government a final note stating that unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were prepared at once to prevent all further migrant channel crossings, a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with France.
Problem solved. Strafe the fuckers, because who knows they are not operation Sealion all over again?
The whole point of the Braverman performance was to tick every hard right box imaginable, using the most inflammatory language, and so to make it impossible for Sunak to sack her without major political repercussions. Her message to him is basically: "If I go, you do too". And Sunak's problem is that she could well be right.
The thing is, she knows she is right; the current level of boat people is unsustainable, and when you know there's no comeback, you can go completely ham on something and challenge people to oppose you.
What is more challenging for her is solving the damn thing.
It's a classic dividing line issue, thought, because the Left - and plenty of (most?) liberal centrists too - refuse to accept it's even an issue, and to the extent they do they argue to make it easier, and therefore cede the entire terrain to the Conservatives - even though they have abjectly failed to solve it.
It's clever politics. It's risky for the Conservatives only if they get outflanked to the Right.
They have to deliver. That's the risk.
They don't, as long as they have someone to blame for the failure- probably Human Rights Lawyers. In fact for some people, solving the problem would render them obsolete and that would never do.
It's horrible, but the retail politics makes sense.
Rhetoric without delivery after 12 years of power will not reap rewards. Most people are not hate-filled Daily Mail readers who view refugees as sub-human scum who deserve firebombing, diphtheria and detention. They just want solutions. If the Tories are not providing any they will look elsewhere.
They want solutions which don't involve shelling out £200/person/night indefinitely, though.
Tell Premier Inn you are only paying £100 a night.
When they object ask if they want a health & safety inspection. Of every facility. Every week. Until they agree.
Naah, I stayed in the premier inn (or possibly travelodge?) at cullompton services a bit ago, because an Irish transport firm wanted to drop off a horse for me there at 4 in the morning. Fabulously clean, fab bed. Ditto identikit airport hotels in this coubntry. It's the one off olde character innes that's vulnerable to h & S.
It’s a threat you numpty, not a comment on reality. You’ll always find an excuse
Home Office source denies Home Secretary Braverman ignored legal advice on Manston migrant centre > While the PM has publicly said he has full confidence in Home Sec, one ally told me Sunak might be comfortable letting Braverman fall on her sword
"The system is broken. Illegal migration is out of control"
Braverman
Yet the party has had twelve years. Only twelve years to fix this.
While that’s partly fair, the boat crossings aspect is much more recent than 12 years ago. It is a global problem, and probably needs global change.
I was just looking at the stats.
Seems to have taken off in 2021, perhaps in response to Britain exiting the Dublin Agreement in January 21.
I’m surprised more has not been made of this connection.
"In 2018, the UK received a total of 37,453 asylum applications, and made 5,510 outgoing transfer requests under Dublin III. Of these 5,510 requests, 209 migrants were transferred out of the UK under Dublin III, whilst 1,215 came in, making the UK a net recipient in 2018. "
Only 4% of Dublin requests were accepted in 2018. 4%. 209 people.
It's an utter irrelevance.
We are also the outlier on both measures - we accept far more incoming requests (%) than others and don’t implement many outgoing requests
Not being in Dublin has reduced the number of asylum seekers we have to deal with (because of the consistent net balance of acceptances by us) but not by much. As @Casino_Royale says, and I think you agree it is a complete irrelevance and is only referred to because people are desperate to blame everything on Brexit.
Off topic, we went out for a stroll earlier and the local estate was mobbed with Trick or Treaters. Disappointing lack of mums in witches outfits, however.
I was on the tube late on Saturday night. Lots of interesting costumes. And the first time I’ve seen someone snorting coke on a tube train…
Did you inform the police?
They won't give a fuck.
My father used to have a pied-à-terre in Brixton. Before my mother eventually browbeat him into selling it in about 2015 he used to have fellas happily piping away on crack sat on his doorstep. He called the cops many time and I don't think they ever turned up once. His excuse was that it wasn't close to Europe's busiest drug rehab clinic when he bought in 1963.
I think the police find reports of crime to be quite the distraction. Especially for crimes which are almost certain to not be solved.
Off topic, we went out for a stroll earlier and the local estate was mobbed with Trick or Treaters. Disappointing lack of mums in witches outfits, however.
I was on the tube late on Saturday night. Lots of interesting costumes. And the first time I’ve seen someone snorting coke on a tube train…
Did you inform the police?
They won't give a fuck.
My father used to have a pied-à-terre in Brixton. Before my mother eventually browbeat him into selling it in about 2015 he used to have fellas happily piping away on crack sat on his doorstep. He called the cops many time and I don't think they ever turned up once. His excuse was that it wasn't close to Europe's busiest drug rehab clinic when he bought in 1963.
I think the police find reports of crime to be quite the distraction. Especially for crimes which are almost certain to not be solved.
I've reported your post to the grammar police!
I'm reporting this post to the grammar police for the inappropriate use of an exclamation mark.
Well, yes. I mean, isn't there some law against putting people up in Premier Inns?
Tip. When you are about to post your one-liners, pause and ask yourself if they fall into the category of facetious or, worse, snide rather than funny.
xx
I did.
And it was still a fair comment.
Never had a decent night's sleep in a Premier Inn.
I'd hate to think facetious or snide one-liners are no longer permitted. Adding a second line would rarely improve them.
I fucking love Premier Inns. I'd be absolutely delighted if you offered me a night in a Premier Inn. Though a blanket wouldn't go amiss. Easier than trying to wrestle with the temperature controls.
Me too. Clean and comfy. Their breakfast game has improved considerably too, especially from a veggie/vegan POV (Travelodge used to have the edge here till they ditched the Linda’s for nasty stodgy Quorn sausages - imo they should just use Richmond’s fake sausages; pretty much the best in the biz now).
Off topic, we went out for a stroll earlier and the local estate was mobbed with Trick or Treaters. Disappointing lack of mums in witches outfits, however.
I was on the tube late on Saturday night. Lots of interesting costumes. And the first time I’ve seen someone snorting coke on a tube train…
Did you inform the police?
They won't give a fuck.
My father used to have a pied-à-terre in Brixton. Before my mother eventually browbeat him into selling it in about 2015 he used to have fellas happily piping away on crack sat on his doorstep. He called the cops many time and I don't think they ever turned up once. His excuse was that it wasn't close to Europe's busiest drug rehab clinic when he bought in 1963.
I think the police find reports of crime to be quite the distraction. Especially for crimes which are almost certain to not be solved.
I've reported your post to the grammar police!
I'm reporting this post to the grammar police for the inappropriate use of an exclamation mark.
Every time I'm in a Travelodge on a work trip I wish I was in a Premier Inn.
The shade thrown at Premier Inn in this thread is something else. Reliably acceptable accommodation at decent prices.
Now expanding into Germany, though I haven't tried one yet. Hope they have beer vending machines in the corridors like other cheap German hotels!
Premier Inn is the business.
The one just south of the Albert Hall where all the aircrew from LHR stay over is OK (especially if you want to meet aircrew). The one in West Kensington is only so-so.
"The system is broken. Illegal migration is out of control"
Braverman
Yet the party has had twelve years. Only twelve years to fix this.
While that’s partly fair, the boat crossings aspect is much more recent than 12 years ago. It is a global problem, and probably needs global change.
I was just looking at the stats.
Seems to have taken off in 2021, perhaps in response to Britain exiting the Dublin Agreement in January 21.
I’m surprised more has not been made of this connection.
"In 2018, the UK received a total of 37,453 asylum applications, and made 5,510 outgoing transfer requests under Dublin III. Of these 5,510 requests, 209 migrants were transferred out of the UK under Dublin III, whilst 1,215 came in, making the UK a net recipient in 2018. "
Only 4% of Dublin requests were accepted in 2018. 4%. 209 people.
It's an utter irrelevance.
We are also the outlier on both measures - we accept far more incoming requests (%) than others and don’t implement many outgoing requests
Not being in Dublin has reduced the number of asylum seekers we have to deal with (because of the consistent net balance of acceptances by us) but not by much. As @Casino_Royale says, and I think you agree it is a complete irrelevance and is only referred to because people are desperate to blame everything on Brexit.
No, it is dismissed by Brexiters who will seek any excuse to avoid responsibility.
That Britain was a very modest “net importer” of asylum seekers does not preclude several possibilities by which leaving Dublin could have contributed to the current situation.
The first way to resolve the issue is simple honesty about the causes (of course there will many), and the imperfection of any one single solution.
Two random comments on the migrant thing. 1) 29% of babies born in this country have a foreign born mother. We are not a racist hell hole.
2) Is it possible that we could just look a little wider and notice that Turkey has four million refugees, Uganda has estimates varying from 2-4 million. Bangladesh has approaching 1 million. A bit of perspective might help.
This morning the British ambassador in Paris handed the French government a final note stating that unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were prepared at once to prevent all further migrant channel crossings, a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with France.
Problem solved. Strafe the fuckers, because who knows they are not operation Sealion all over again?
I am genuinely astonished to see that post has been liked by somebody who isn't TSE.
I am genuinely astonished to see that post has been liked.
Personally I thought it was piss-poor. Not up to your usual standard.
The Dinghy People Thing is approaching crisis status. I have yet to see even the vaguest suggestion of a solution - from anyone (Tories or Labour or anyone). Apart from Rwanda. Which has not even been tried, and which might likely fail, but we won’t know til we try
When Labour become the government in 2024 (as they surely will) this will be their problem. I wonder what they will do, with so many on their side saying, in effect “just let them all in”
Since you’re back, I’ll repost this for you, before you go on to explaining your own solution to the Channel problem.
Did you get around to apologising for peddling the smears ?
This directly contradicts conspiracy theories pushed by (and since deleted by) Twitter owner Elon Musk.
No, because I didn’t peddle the smears
I did not link to Musk, I did not retweet him, I did not describe any of the theories - from any side - my solitary comment on this subject was actually to agree with @Gardenwalker that there was something unusual in the way the story was being told, barely at all on Fox News and with an odd circumspection on the NYT
That was it. Then the debate began as to how both American sides fib (and they do) - a different matter
You can apologise to me if you like, but IIRC that was my one single direct remark on the Pelosi Affair. Ironically it was @Gardenwalker who gave the gory details of the fairly outre theory that Musk retweeted
"The system is broken. Illegal migration is out of control"
Braverman
Yet the party has had twelve years. Only twelve years to fix this.
While that’s partly fair, the boat crossings aspect is much more recent than 12 years ago. It is a global problem, and probably needs global change.
I was just looking at the stats.
Seems to have taken off in 2021, perhaps in response to Britain exiting the Dublin Agreement in January 21.
I’m surprised more has not been made of this connection.
"In 2018, the UK received a total of 37,453 asylum applications, and made 5,510 outgoing transfer requests under Dublin III. Of these 5,510 requests, 209 migrants were transferred out of the UK under Dublin III, whilst 1,215 came in, making the UK a net recipient in 2018. "
Only 4% of Dublin requests were accepted in 2018. 4%. 209 people.
It's an utter irrelevance.
We are also the outlier on both measures - we accept far more incoming requests (%) than others and don’t implement many outgoing requests
Not being in Dublin has reduced the number of asylum seekers we have to deal with (because of the consistent net balance of acceptances by us) but not by much. As @Casino_Royale says, and I think you agree it is a complete irrelevance and is only referred to because people are desperate to blame everything on Brexit.
No, it is dismissed by Brexiters who will seek any excuse to avoid responsibility.
That Britain was a very modest “net importer” of asylum seekers does not preclude several possibilities by which leaving Dublin could have contributed to the current situation.
The first way to resolve the issue is simple honesty about the causes (of course there will many), and the imperfection of any one single solution.
Anything else is bar-room talk.
Tosh. How many people did we ever manage to send back to France through Dublin? Maybe a handful at the very most. Dublin did not help us before Brexit over the last 20 years this problem has been ongoing and it wouldn't sort it now.
Off topic, we went out for a stroll earlier and the local estate was mobbed with Trick or Treaters. Disappointing lack of mums in witches outfits, however.
I was on the tube late on Saturday night. Lots of interesting costumes. And the first time I’ve seen someone snorting coke on a tube train…
Did you inform the police?
They won't give a fuck.
My father used to have a pied-à-terre in Brixton. Before my mother eventually browbeat him into selling it in about 2015 he used to have fellas happily piping away on crack sat on his doorstep. He called the cops many time and I don't think they ever turned up once. His excuse was that it wasn't close to Europe's busiest drug rehab clinic when he bought in 1963.
I think the police find reports of crime to be quite the distraction. Especially for crimes which are almost certain to not be solved.
I've reported your post to the grammar police!
I'm reporting this post to the grammar police for the inappropriate use of an exclamation mark.
You're wasting police time.
Well, they've got to fill up their days with something. Better to investigate things like comman assault than drink coffee and make sleazy comments on WhatsApp.
'Jan Ormiston, an RSPCA trustee and volunteer, said the charity had more than twice the number of rabbits in shelters than before the pandemic. At the Northumberland West shelter, there would normally be about a dozen rabbits, she said, but there were now about 30.
Ormiston said: “We have a rabbit crisis at the minute. We just have so many rabbits that have come into our care. It is unbelievable.” [...] many owners have given up their rabbits after realising they require as much care as a cat – and vet’s bills are just as expensive.'
We can, of course, just eat them (unlike cats). How is that a “crisis”?
I think most would agree that Albanians aren’t asylum seekers so I don’t think it’s controversial to deport them quickly .
The Home Office has been useless for decades and not fit for purpose , I don’t think many would disagree with this .
I would, but that's because I'm not sure I would limit that criticism of government to the Home Office.
Can anyone cite an instance of the phrase "not fit for purpose" being used prior to then-home-secretary John Reid using it to describe the home office c.2005? My belief is that he coined the phrase. In which case at least the home office has achieved one thing of note.
He was quite good, as home secretaries go. They don't make them like that any more.
"The system is broken. Illegal migration is out of control"
Braverman
Yet the party has had twelve years. Only twelve years to fix this.
While that’s partly fair, the boat crossings aspect is much more recent than 12 years ago. It is a global problem, and probably needs global change.
I was just looking at the stats.
Seems to have taken off in 2021, perhaps in response to Britain exiting the Dublin Agreement in January 21.
I’m surprised more has not been made of this connection.
"In 2018, the UK received a total of 37,453 asylum applications, and made 5,510 outgoing transfer requests under Dublin III. Of these 5,510 requests, 209 migrants were transferred out of the UK under Dublin III, whilst 1,215 came in, making the UK a net recipient in 2018. "
Only 4% of Dublin requests were accepted in 2018. 4%. 209 people.
It's an utter irrelevance.
We are also the outlier on both measures - we accept far more incoming requests (%) than others and don’t implement many outgoing requests
Not being in Dublin has reduced the number of asylum seekers we have to deal with (because of the consistent net balance of acceptances by us) but not by much. As @Casino_Royale says, and I think you agree it is a complete irrelevance and is only referred to because people are desperate to blame everything on Brexit.
No, it is dismissed by Brexiters who will seek any excuse to avoid responsibility.
That Britain was a very modest “net importer” of asylum seekers does not preclude several possibilities by which leaving Dublin could have contributed to the current situation.
The first way to resolve the issue is simple honesty about the causes (of course there will many), and the imperfection of any one single solution.
Anything else is bar-room talk.
Tosh. How many people did we ever manage to send back to France through Dublin? Maybe a handful at the very most. Dublin did not help us before Brexit over the last 20 years this problem has been ongoing and it wouldn't sort it now.
Dunno, but cross-channel asylum seekers ONLY became a significant issue post Jan 21.
I think that’s notable, at least not enough not to simply dismiss it as many want to.
Off topic, we went out for a stroll earlier and the local estate was mobbed with Trick or Treaters. Disappointing lack of mums in witches outfits, however.
I was on the tube late on Saturday night. Lots of interesting costumes. And the first time I’ve seen someone snorting coke on a tube train…
Did you inform the police?
They won't give a fuck.
My father used to have a pied-à-terre in Brixton. Before my mother eventually browbeat him into selling it in about 2015 he used to have fellas happily piping away on crack sat on his doorstep. He called the cops many time and I don't think they ever turned up once. His excuse was that it wasn't close to Europe's busiest drug rehab clinic when he bought in 1963.
I think the police find reports of crime to be quite the distraction. Especially for crimes which are almost certain to not be solved.
It is a truth universally acknowledged that a zombie Home Secretary in possession of brains must be in want of more brains. Never was this truth more plain than during the recent attacks at Chevening House, in which a government of eighteen was slaughtered and consumed by a horde of the living dead.
"My dear Mr. Bennet," said his lady to him one day, "have you heard that Netherfield Park is occupied again?"
Mr. Bennet replied that he had not and went about his morning business of dagger sharpening and musket polishing—for attacks by the unmentionables had grown alarmingly frequent in recent weeks.
"But it is," returned she.
Mr. Bennet made no answer.
"Do you not want to know who has taken it?" cried his wife impatiently.
"Woman, I am attending to my musket. Prattle on if you must, but leave me to the defense of my estate!"
I think most would agree that Albanians aren’t asylum seekers so I don’t think it’s controversial to deport them quickly .
The Home Office has been useless for decades and not fit for purpose , I don’t think many would disagree with this .
I would, but that's because I'm not sure I would limit that criticism of government to the Home Office.
Can anyone cite an instance of the phrase "not fit for purpose" being used prior to then-home-secretary John Reid using it to describe the home office c.2005? My belief is that he coined the phrase. In which case at least the home office has achieved one thing of note.
He was quite good, as home secretaries go. They don't make them like that any more.
I definitely heard fit for use / fit for purpose in an engineering context in the USN in 1999 - 2001 ish.
Sky have just announced that from the 7th November all poultry have to be kept indoors in England due to Avian flu which looks very serious
I listened to a report on this a couple of days ago that said the Ministry of Agriculture has approved the early slaughter of turkeys and to be frozen and then thawed to sell as fresh at Christmas
I expect this will have an effect on the availability of Christmas turkeys and I would be very annoyed if I bought a fresh one for it to have been frozen previously
Turkey is a shit meat anyway, were it any good we'd eat it year round. We don't. It's rubbish. Have rib of beef instead.
When did the English start eating an American species at Christmas? Christmas has been celebrated in England for almost 2000 years. I’m assuming that for the first 1700 years or so they ate something else at feasts.
I’m on ma tod this Christmas, so for like the first time ever, I can eat what the hell I like. It’ll definitely not be American turkey, not Swedish ham. Maybe steak pie? Lamb? Duck? I’ll have to have a wee think.
Steak and kidney pie with puff pastry, perhaps. Thouhg a pie for one is a bit pastry heavy, and there is always the next day question if you don't eat it all. Lamb - you can have stovies and beetroot with cold lamb on the 26th and curry on the 27th
Edit: almopst forgotten this. But will it ever be as good as Mum's? Best try one ahead of time.
[google shopping for clootie dumpling]
Great minds think alike.
beetroot is horrible, though. Pickled red cabbage is the way forward.
Depends. Plain beetroot pickled in plain vinegar is great: such as Baxters sliced. Or freshly boiled, cooled and soaked in vinegar. You need it to balance the slightly greasy meat and the earthy sweetness of the stovies.
Though some of the beetroot one finds in eg Lidl or hamster-food shops is gruesome, ditto the sweetened stuff (though Baxters baby beets aren't bad).
"The system is broken. Illegal migration is out of control"
Braverman
Yet the party has had twelve years. Only twelve years to fix this.
While that’s partly fair, the boat crossings aspect is much more recent than 12 years ago. It is a global problem, and probably needs global change.
I was just looking at the stats.
Seems to have taken off in 2021, perhaps in response to Britain exiting the Dublin Agreement in January 21.
I’m surprised more has not been made of this connection.
"In 2018, the UK received a total of 37,453 asylum applications, and made 5,510 outgoing transfer requests under Dublin III. Of these 5,510 requests, 209 migrants were transferred out of the UK under Dublin III, whilst 1,215 came in, making the UK a net recipient in 2018. "
Only 4% of Dublin requests were accepted in 2018. 4%. 209 people.
It's an utter irrelevance.
We are also the outlier on both measures - we accept far more incoming requests (%) than others and don’t implement many outgoing requests
Not being in Dublin has reduced the number of asylum seekers we have to deal with (because of the consistent net balance of acceptances by us) but not by much. As @Casino_Royale says, and I think you agree it is a complete irrelevance and is only referred to because people are desperate to blame everything on Brexit.
No, it is dismissed by Brexiters who will seek any excuse to avoid responsibility.
That Britain was a very modest “net importer” of asylum seekers does not preclude several possibilities by which leaving Dublin could have contributed to the current situation.
The first way to resolve the issue is simple honesty about the causes (of course there will many), and the imperfection of any one single solution.
Anything else is bar-room talk.
Tosh. How many people did we ever manage to send back to France through Dublin? Maybe a handful at the very most. Dublin did not help us before Brexit over the last 20 years this problem has been ongoing and it wouldn't sort it now.
Dunno, but cross-channel asylum seekers ONLY became a significant issue post Jan 21.
I think that’s notable, at least not enough not to simply dismiss it as many want to.
"The system is broken. Illegal migration is out of control"
Braverman
Yet the party has had twelve years. Only twelve years to fix this.
While that’s partly fair, the boat crossings aspect is much more recent than 12 years ago. It is a global problem, and probably needs global change.
I was just looking at the stats.
Seems to have taken off in 2021, perhaps in response to Britain exiting the Dublin Agreement in January 21.
I’m surprised more has not been made of this connection.
"In 2018, the UK received a total of 37,453 asylum applications, and made 5,510 outgoing transfer requests under Dublin III. Of these 5,510 requests, 209 migrants were transferred out of the UK under Dublin III, whilst 1,215 came in, making the UK a net recipient in 2018. "
Only 4% of Dublin requests were accepted in 2018. 4%. 209 people.
It's an utter irrelevance.
We are also the outlier on both measures - we accept far more incoming requests (%) than others and don’t implement many outgoing requests
Not being in Dublin has reduced the number of asylum seekers we have to deal with (because of the consistent net balance of acceptances by us) but not by much. As @Casino_Royale says, and I think you agree it is a complete irrelevance and is only referred to because people are desperate to blame everything on Brexit.
No, it is dismissed by Brexiters who will seek any excuse to avoid responsibility.
That Britain was a very modest “net importer” of asylum seekers does not preclude several possibilities by which leaving Dublin could have contributed to the current situation.
The first way to resolve the issue is simple honesty about the causes (of course there will many), and the imperfection of any one single solution.
Anything else is bar-room talk.
Tosh. How many people did we ever manage to send back to France through Dublin? Maybe a handful at the very most. Dublin did not help us before Brexit over the last 20 years this problem has been ongoing and it wouldn't sort it now.
Dunno, but cross-channel asylum seekers ONLY became a significant issue post Jan 21.
I think that’s notable, at least not enough not to simply dismiss it as many want to.
"The system is broken. Illegal migration is out of control"
Braverman
Yet the party has had twelve years. Only twelve years to fix this.
While that’s partly fair, the boat crossings aspect is much more recent than 12 years ago. It is a global problem, and probably needs global change.
I was just looking at the stats.
Seems to have taken off in 2021, perhaps in response to Britain exiting the Dublin Agreement in January 21.
I’m surprised more has not been made of this connection.
"In 2018, the UK received a total of 37,453 asylum applications, and made 5,510 outgoing transfer requests under Dublin III. Of these 5,510 requests, 209 migrants were transferred out of the UK under Dublin III, whilst 1,215 came in, making the UK a net recipient in 2018. "
Only 4% of Dublin requests were accepted in 2018. 4%. 209 people.
It's an utter irrelevance.
We are also the outlier on both measures - we accept far more incoming requests (%) than others and don’t implement many outgoing requests
Not being in Dublin has reduced the number of asylum seekers we have to deal with (because of the consistent net balance of acceptances by us) but not by much. As @Casino_Royale says, and I think you agree it is a complete irrelevance and is only referred to because people are desperate to blame everything on Brexit.
No, it is dismissed by Brexiters who will seek any excuse to avoid responsibility.
That Britain was a very modest “net importer” of asylum seekers does not preclude several possibilities by which leaving Dublin could have contributed to the current situation.
The first way to resolve the issue is simple honesty about the causes (of course there will many), and the imperfection of any one single solution.
Anything else is bar-room talk.
Tosh. How many people did we ever manage to send back to France through Dublin? Maybe a handful at the very most. Dublin did not help us before Brexit over the last 20 years this problem has been ongoing and it wouldn't sort it now.
Dunno, but cross-channel asylum seekers ONLY became a significant issue post Jan 21.
I think that’s notable, at least not enough not to simply dismiss it as many want to.
It used to be said that the boats were for those who could pay thousands of pounds (e.g Iranians), and that the subsaharans, who typically could not, would hang around Calais trying to cling to the underside of a lorry.
It would be useful to know a) what it cost to take the boat 5 years ago and b) what it costs now. And why, of course, if it has changed.
I think most would agree that Albanians aren’t asylum seekers so I don’t think it’s controversial to deport them quickly .
The Home Office has been useless for decades and not fit for purpose , I don’t think many would disagree with this .
I would, but that's because I'm not sure I would limit that criticism of government to the Home Office.
Can anyone cite an instance of the phrase "not fit for purpose" being used prior to then-home-secretary John Reid using it to describe the home office c.2005? My belief is that he coined the phrase. In which case at least the home office has achieved one thing of note.
He was quite good, as home secretaries go. They don't make them like that any more.
I definitely heard fit for use / fit for purpose in an engineering context in the USN in 1999 - 2001 ish.
I think most would agree that Albanians aren’t asylum seekers so I don’t think it’s controversial to deport them quickly .
The Home Office has been useless for decades and not fit for purpose , I don’t think many would disagree with this .
I would, but that's because I'm not sure I would limit that criticism of government to the Home Office.
Can anyone cite an instance of the phrase "not fit for purpose" being used prior to then-home-secretary John Reid using it to describe the home office c.2005? My belief is that he coined the phrase. In which case at least the home office has achieved one thing of note.
He was quite good, as home secretaries go. They don't make them like that any more.
I was always under the impression that he lifted it from the Sale of Goods Act.
'Jan Ormiston, an RSPCA trustee and volunteer, said the charity had more than twice the number of rabbits in shelters than before the pandemic. At the Northumberland West shelter, there would normally be about a dozen rabbits, she said, but there were now about 30.
Ormiston said: “We have a rabbit crisis at the minute. We just have so many rabbits that have come into our care. It is unbelievable.” [...] many owners have given up their rabbits after realising they require as much care as a cat – and vet’s bills are just as expensive.'
We can, of course, just eat them (unlike cats). How is that a “crisis”?
Round here rabbits need no assistance from anyone at all to thrive, eat bits of everyone's allotment and breed in a manner strongly reminiscent of rabbits.
BTW anthropologists love rabbits because they are an example of something unusual they have a name for (no idea what) as they are both pets and we eat them. Apparently this is unusual. Though I suspect eating them is going out of favour a bit.
"The system is broken. Illegal migration is out of control"
Braverman
Yet the party has had twelve years. Only twelve years to fix this.
While that’s partly fair, the boat crossings aspect is much more recent than 12 years ago. It is a global problem, and probably needs global change.
I was just looking at the stats.
Seems to have taken off in 2021, perhaps in response to Britain exiting the Dublin Agreement in January 21.
I’m surprised more has not been made of this connection.
"In 2018, the UK received a total of 37,453 asylum applications, and made 5,510 outgoing transfer requests under Dublin III. Of these 5,510 requests, 209 migrants were transferred out of the UK under Dublin III, whilst 1,215 came in, making the UK a net recipient in 2018. "
Only 4% of Dublin requests were accepted in 2018. 4%. 209 people.
It's an utter irrelevance.
We are also the outlier on both measures - we accept far more incoming requests (%) than others and don’t implement many outgoing requests
Not being in Dublin has reduced the number of asylum seekers we have to deal with (because of the consistent net balance of acceptances by us) but not by much. As @Casino_Royale says, and I think you agree it is a complete irrelevance and is only referred to because people are desperate to blame everything on Brexit.
No, it is dismissed by Brexiters who will seek any excuse to avoid responsibility.
That Britain was a very modest “net importer” of asylum seekers does not preclude several possibilities by which leaving Dublin could have contributed to the current situation.
The first way to resolve the issue is simple honesty about the causes (of course there will many), and the imperfection of any one single solution.
Anything else is bar-room talk.
Tosh. How many people did we ever manage to send back to France through Dublin? Maybe a handful at the very most. Dublin did not help us before Brexit over the last 20 years this problem has been ongoing and it wouldn't sort it now.
Dunno, but cross-channel asylum seekers ONLY became a significant issue post Jan 21.
I think that’s notable, at least not enough not to simply dismiss it as many want to.
It used to be said that the boats were for those who could pay thousands of pounds (e.g Iranians), and that the subsaharans, who typically could not, would hang around Calais trying to cling to the underside of a lorry.
It would be useful to know a) what it cost to take the boat 5 years ago and b) what it costs now. And why, of course, if it has changed.
It would be useful to have all the facts on the table.
Is it true, for example, that total volumes (agnostic of channel) have stayed consistent?
I think most would agree that Albanians aren’t asylum seekers so I don’t think it’s controversial to deport them quickly .
The Home Office has been useless for decades and not fit for purpose , I don’t think many would disagree with this .
I would, but that's because I'm not sure I would limit that criticism of government to the Home Office.
Can anyone cite an instance of the phrase "not fit for purpose" being used prior to then-home-secretary John Reid using it to describe the home office c.2005? My belief is that he coined the phrase. In which case at least the home office has achieved one thing of note.
He was quite good, as home secretaries go. They don't make them like that any more.
I think most would agree that Albanians aren’t asylum seekers so I don’t think it’s controversial to deport them quickly .
The Home Office has been useless for decades and not fit for purpose , I don’t think many would disagree with this .
I would, but that's because I'm not sure I would limit that criticism of government to the Home Office.
Can anyone cite an instance of the phrase "not fit for purpose" being used prior to then-home-secretary John Reid using it to describe the home office c.2005? My belief is that he coined the phrase. In which case at least the home office has achieved one thing of note.
He didn't.
Matt Seaver, Gower Handbook of Quality Management, 2003. Craig Taylor and Erik VanMarcke, Acceptable Risk Processes, 2002. David Needham and Robert Dransfield, Business Studies For You, 2001. John B Gregory and Charles E Smith, ed., Technology Assessment and Research Program for Offshore Minerals Operations, 1988.
Sky have just announced that from the 7th November all poultry have to be kept indoors in England due to Avian flu which looks very serious
I listened to a report on this a couple of days ago that said the Ministry of Agriculture has approved the early slaughter of turkeys and to be frozen and then thawed to sell as fresh at Christmas
I expect this will have an effect on the availability of Christmas turkeys and I would be very annoyed if I bought a fresh one for it to have been frozen previously
Turkey is a shit meat anyway, were it any good we'd eat it year round. We don't. It's rubbish. Have rib of beef instead.
When did the English start eating an American species at Christmas? Christmas has been celebrated in England for almost 2000 years. I’m assuming that for the first 1700 years or so they ate something else at feasts.
I’m on ma tod this Christmas, so for like the first time ever, I can eat what the hell I like. It’ll definitely not be American turkey, not Swedish ham. Maybe steak pie? Lamb? Duck? I’ll have to have a wee think.
Steak and kidney pie with puff pastry, perhaps. Thouhg a pie for one is a bit pastry heavy, and there is always the next day question if you don't eat it all. Lamb - you can have stovies and beetroot with cold lamb on the 26th and curry on the 27th
Edit: almopst forgotten this. But will it ever be as good as Mum's? Best try one ahead of time.
[google shopping for clootie dumpling]
Great minds think alike.
kidney , yuk, have a real Scottish one with sausages
I think most would agree that Albanians aren’t asylum seekers so I don’t think it’s controversial to deport them quickly .
The Home Office has been useless for decades and not fit for purpose , I don’t think many would disagree with this .
I would, but that's because I'm not sure I would limit that criticism of government to the Home Office.
Can anyone cite an instance of the phrase "not fit for purpose" being used prior to then-home-secretary John Reid using it to describe the home office c.2005? My belief is that he coined the phrase. In which case at least the home office has achieved one thing of note.
He didn't.
Matt Seaver, Gower Handbook of Quality Management, 2003. Craig Taylor and Erik VanMarcke, Acceptable Risk Processes, 2002. David Needham and Robert Dransfield, Business Studies For You, 2001. John B Gregory and Charles E Smith, ed., Technology Assessment and Research Program for Offshore Minerals Operations, 1988.
See also s14 sale of goods act 1979 (and possibly earlier consumer protection legislation ?)
Comments
After a particularly miserable experience a few months ago at a Premier Inn in Wiltshire I decided if I was going only for one night, even if I had to set my alarm for 3am I was sleeping at home and driving down.
Of course, that's easier to do in Cannock than say, Northumberland.
The Home Office has been useless for decades and not fit for purpose , I don’t think many would disagree with this .
Now expanding into Germany, though I haven't tried one yet. Hope they have beer vending machines in the corridors like other cheap German hotels!
https://news.sky.com/story/home-office-source-denies-home-secretary-suella-braverman-ignored-legal-device-on-manston-migrant-centre-12735240 https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1587171130871533568/photo/1
ERG Tories mounting full scale 'operation save Suella' tonight
They are furious at what they see as attempts by No 10 to undermine the Home Secretaery.
More at our live blog: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/31/rishi-sunak-cop27-news-suella-braverman-security-breach-latest/
"The scary Halloween costumes islanders wore 90 years ago"
Or, kick the Barclays off Brecqhou. Bit pokey, though.
Hang on, it’s the Telegraph.
That Britain was a very modest “net importer” of asylum seekers does not preclude several possibilities by which leaving Dublin could have contributed to the current situation.
The first way to resolve the issue is simple honesty about the causes (of course there will many), and the imperfection of any one single solution.
Anything else is bar-room talk.
1) 29% of babies born in this country have a foreign born mother. We are not a racist hell hole.
2) Is it possible that we could just look a little wider and notice that Turkey has four million refugees, Uganda has estimates varying from 2-4 million. Bangladesh has approaching 1 million. A bit of perspective might help.
Not up to your usual standard.
I did not link to Musk, I did not retweet him, I did not describe any of the theories - from any side - my solitary comment on this subject was actually to agree with @Gardenwalker that there was something unusual in the way the story was being told, barely at all on Fox News and with an odd circumspection on the NYT
That was it. Then the debate began as to how both American sides fib (and they do) - a different matter
You can apologise to me if you like, but IIRC that was my one single direct remark on the Pelosi Affair. Ironically it was @Gardenwalker who gave the gory details of the fairly outre theory that Musk retweeted
We can, of course, just eat them (unlike cats). How is that a “crisis”?
He was quite good, as home secretaries go. They don't make them like that any more.
I think that’s notable, at least not
enough not to simply dismiss it as many want to.
When you called him last night from Glasgow?
"My dear Mr. Bennet," said his lady to him one day, "have you heard that Netherfield Park is occupied again?"
Mr. Bennet replied that he had not and went about his morning business of dagger sharpening and musket polishing—for attacks by the unmentionables had grown alarmingly frequent in recent weeks.
"But it is," returned she.
Mr. Bennet made no answer.
"Do you not want to know who has taken it?" cried his wife impatiently.
"Woman, I am attending to my musket. Prattle on if you must, but leave me to the defense of my estate!"
booked into a Premier Inn
Though some of the beetroot one finds in eg Lidl or hamster-food shops is gruesome, ditto the sweetened stuff (though Baxters baby beets aren't bad).
It would be useful to know a) what it cost to take the boat 5 years ago and b) what it costs now. And why, of course, if it has changed.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rq02AAAAIAAJ&q="not+fit+for+purpose"&dq="not+fit+for+purpose"&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi87OLCqYv7AhW4SkEAHVZ7BagQ6AF6BAgIEAI
BTW anthropologists love rabbits because they are an example of something unusual they have a name for (no idea what) as they are both pets and we eat them. Apparently this is unusual. Though I suspect eating them is going out of favour a bit.
Is it true, for example, that total volumes (agnostic of channel) have stayed consistent?
Why do we have such a backlog for processing?
Where are the asylum seekers coming from?
What happens to the ones we don’t remove?
How do we compare to our neighbouring countries?
Is the situation expected to get better or worse?
Just shine a light on this shit.
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=not+fit+for+purpose&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1;,not fit for purpose;,c0#t1;,not fit for purpose;,c0
And seems to have replaced "not fit for use"
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=not+fit+for+use&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1;,not fit for use;,c0#t1;,not fit for use;,c0
Matt Seaver, Gower Handbook of Quality Management, 2003.
Craig Taylor and Erik VanMarcke, Acceptable Risk Processes, 2002.
David Needham and Robert Dransfield, Business Studies For You, 2001.
John B Gregory and Charles E Smith, ed., Technology Assessment and Research Program for Offshore Minerals Operations, 1988.