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Is there any way back for the Tories? – politicalbetting.com

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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited October 2022
    ...

    I wonder if this was the headline Braverman’s critics were hoping for:

    Braverman reveals they are up to 4 STAR hotels for migrants. Says bad use of public money. Gobsmacking.

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1587140334852661249?

    We need to pinpoint the HS responsible for this outrage. The Postman? Jacqui Smith? Reid? maybe Blunkett or Straw?

    I am going for Jacqui Smith, because I quite like the Postman.

    P.S. I have an mid morning flight out of Bristol next week. I have a Premier Inn booked for £49 on the seafront at Weston for the night before. Perhaps I should be be engaged to procure accommodation for asylum seekers rather than the Government.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    Carnyx said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Would be interesting to see polling on this:

    If Suella Braverman’s critics have a killer fact, they’d better deploy it fast. Because if there are many more debates like this - in which she can frame herself as the person preventing immigrants checking into £600 pound hotel rooms - she’s going to end up a national heroine.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1587149352614649856

    Note 31% of Labour voters and 35% of LD voters think boats carrying migrants should be turned back in the channel before they reach UK shores. As well as 84% of Conservative voters. Her position has some popular appeal
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/09/10/187e0/1?utm_source=twitter &utm_medium=daily_questions &utm_campaign=question_1
    The problem is they can't be.

    The real problem is nobody has a workable solution and that is across all parties
    The problem is the government is looking for others to blame.
    It would help if labour and others had a feasible answer which they simply do not

    They're not the ones taking large salaries and spending even larger sums of our taxes.
    For any opposition seeking to go into government there need practical and credible answers to these questions
    Wait till the election campaign. You're always moaning that the opposition parties don't do the Tories' job for them for free.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited October 2022
    Chris said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Chris said:

    RobD said:

    Chris said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    DJ41 said:

    🚨| BREAKING: Rishi Sunak in a major crisis as ‘Deeply unhappy’ Tory MPs are ALREADY drafting letters of no confidence in him.

    https://twitter.com/politlcsuk/status/1587051559011160064?s=46&t=cCAoGMtV-HrWMD0Uh-dCiQ

    And so it begins.

    Why would an MP fuss over "drafting" a no confidence letter?

    All it needs to say is

    "Dear Graham, I have no confidence in Rishi Sunak as leader of the Conservative party. Kind regards, [Forename] [Surname], MP for [Constituency]".


    Well, if it were Liz Truss, for example, she'd really need to take her time and check everything very carefully, to avoid those mistakes that are so easy to fall into - such as signing it "Rishi Sunak".
    Liz didn't make any mistakes in her written responses to resignations - she used the correct form as every PM before her had done. I wouldn't want you to make yourself look stupid by unwittingly repeating a falsehood.
    If that's the "correct form" for signing a letter I'm a Dutchman!
    Goedenavond heer.

    It was the correct form and was not, of course, a signature.
    True it wasn't a signature. Absurd to claim it was the "correct form" for a letter.
    Except it is.
    Have you ever used it?
    Has he ever accepted the resignation of a Chancellor of the Exchequer?
    I take it that means you haven't ever used the "correct form" for a letter either.

    Shocking!
    Here’s Johnson’s reply to Javid’s resignation. with Javid’s name at the bottom…




    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sajid-javids-resignation-letter-and-the-prime-ministers-response
    It might actually be mildly interesting to know whether this peculiar way of letter-writing is a recent innovation or whether it really predates the advent of mass illiteracy. But only mildly.
    Jesus. Are you a sexton by trade?

    If you calm down and tyhink about it you will see that it is a relic of the days before window envelopes.
    I'm doubtful about the relevance of window envelopes, but certainly the receipient's name at the bottom is nothing to do with resignation letters as you implied it was earlier.
    No I didn't, I implied that ministerial resigation letters and responses thereto are a subset of relevant letters.

    You seem to have been overdoing the stupid pills. Letters intended to go in window envelopes have the recipient's name and address top left. Letters not so intended, do not. It is convenient to be able to tell from a letter whom it is from and whom it is to. Therefore the convention used to be, to put the recipient's name at the bottom.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    HYUFD said:

    Would be interesting to see polling on this:

    If Suella Braverman’s critics have a killer fact, they’d better deploy it fast. Because if there are many more debates like this - in which she can frame herself as the person preventing immigrants checking into £600 pound hotel rooms - she’s going to end up a national heroine.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1587149352614649856

    Note 31% of Labour voters and 35% of LD voters think boats carrying migrants should be turned back in the channel before they reach UK shores. As well as 84% of Conservative voters. Her position has some popular appeal
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/09/10/187e0/1?utm_source=twitter &utm_medium=daily_questions &utm_campaign=question_1
    The problem is they can't be.

    They can, it's an agreement with France that stands in the way.
    You mean…like the Dublin Agreement?
    I've eviscerated this argument of yours upthread.

    Please don't persist with it, and embarrass yourself.

    You're not thick.
    You haven’t, though.

    You’ve pointed out that the previous Dublin Agreement played only a minor element in the resettlement of asylum seekers. Indeed, the UK was a very modest net “loser”.

    But that doesn’t preclude the possibility that Britain is more attractive without the Dublin Agreement in place, nor the possibility that France was a more effective policeman knowing that the Dublin Agreement was extant.

    So pull your head out of your arse.

  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945
    Carnyx said:

    Another canary in the economic coal mine: the bunny crisis.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/31/giant-rabbits-looking-for-new-homes-northumberland-rescue

    'Jan Ormiston, an RSPCA trustee and volunteer, said the charity had more than twice the number of rabbits in shelters than before the pandemic. At the Northumberland West shelter, there would normally be about a dozen rabbits, she said, but there were now about 30.

    Ormiston said: “We have a rabbit crisis at the minute. We just have so many rabbits that have come into our care. It is unbelievable.” [...] many owners have given up their rabbits after realising they require as much care as a cat – and vet’s bills are just as expensive.'

    Given the escalating cost of chicken breast, this is a problem with a very easy solution...
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    @ydoethur if that's serious then I'm taken aback. Their mattresses are really good: £600 Hypnos.

    Funnily enough, or maybe not, I'm staying at Premier Inn tomorrow. Great value.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Oh FFS! If the right wingers REALLY want to stop immigration, they would dig a funeral pit and execute all illegal immigrants / channel crossers into it and broadcast it on BBC World Service. I guarantee you it would stop mass immigration.

    But nobody is going to do that so these people are going to keep arriving and you are going to have to spend money on solving the problem instead of listening to total w*nkers like Farage, Braverman and the other loons.

    Grow up and wipe the drool of your chins and the spittle off your screens. And while we are at it, just remember that if we had stayed in the EU we could have forced immigrants to be resettled back on the continent.

    And after that post I think I could do with some time away from politics and the utter whinge-fest and self-serving denial of reality from our own PB loons that passes for "solutions".

    Good night and good luck!

    How could we force immigrants to be resettled back to the continent if we were in the EU

    I utterly reject the right but to suggest money and being in the EU would solve the problem is simply unrealistic

    Maybe you could detail exactly how you would prevent these terrible crossings rather than a rant

    Look up the Dublin Agreement.
    The UK withdrew in January 21, despite warnings that it would make managing asylum seekers more difficult.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    Sunak and Hunt say everyone will have to pay more tax in the years ahead - not just the wealthy.

    Fiscal black hole is “eye-watering”.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-31/sunak-hunt-say-it-s-inevitable-all-britons-will-pay-more-tax

    Odd that literally nobody was talking about austerity three months ago, and now it’s become grim necessity all of a sudden.

    World Economic Forum.
    Ok. Got any material to share on that argument?
    Mmm.

    This is a brief and digestible primer.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/top-10-creepiest-and-most-dystopian-things-pushed-world-economic-forum-wef

    I don't subscribe to the views of the author, or endorse the site by the way, but I do think the WEF is a group of very stupid people and the garbage they come out with has the potential to be quite damaging.
    Thanks for sharing, but even with your caveats, the content is unmitigated bollocks.
    I agree - and much of the bollocks consists of the ideas of the WEF organisation itself. These would be amusing if it weren't for the undisputed reach of the organisation.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Andy_JS said:

    An example of how out of touch Twitter is: #BringBackMasks is trending at the moment.

    Still wear mine indoors. Most of the young Asians around here wear them indoors and outdoors.

    I don't even notice I wear it now. Like knickers.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Patel vs Braverman.

    "Suella Braverman has brought Home Office 'into disrepute', say Priti Patel allies" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/31/suella-braverman-has-brought-home-office-disrepute-multiple/
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Would be interesting to see polling on this:

    If Suella Braverman’s critics have a killer fact, they’d better deploy it fast. Because if there are many more debates like this - in which she can frame herself as the person preventing immigrants checking into £600 pound hotel rooms - she’s going to end up a national heroine.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1587149352614649856

    Note 31% of Labour voters and 35% of LD voters think boats carrying migrants should be turned back in the channel before they reach UK shores. As well as 84% of Conservative voters. Her position has some popular appeal
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/09/10/187e0/1?utm_source=twitter &utm_medium=daily_questions &utm_campaign=question_1
    The problem is they can't be.

    The real problem is nobody has a workable solution and that is across all parties
    The problem is the government is looking for others to blame.
    It would help if labour and others had a feasible answer which they simply do not

    They're not the ones taking large salaries and spending even larger sums of our taxes.
    For any opposition seeking to go into government there need practical and credible answers to these questions
    Wait till the election campaign. You're always moaning that the opposition parties don't do the Tories' job for them for free.
    In other words, they do not have an answer

    I have listened to Yvette Cooper and she says she would crack down on the traffickers (already being done with cooperation of France) and agree more cooperation with France, already in the pipeline, and nothing else as an alternative
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited October 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    An example of how out of touch Twitter is: #BringBackMasks is trending at the moment.

    400 million users

    #everyoneoutofstepexceptme
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Would be interesting to see polling on this:

    If Suella Braverman’s critics have a killer fact, they’d better deploy it fast. Because if there are many more debates like this - in which she can frame herself as the person preventing immigrants checking into £600 pound hotel rooms - she’s going to end up a national heroine.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1587149352614649856

    Note 31% of Labour voters and 35% of LD voters think boats carrying migrants should be turned back in the channel before they reach UK shores. As well as 84% of Conservative voters. Her position has some popular appeal
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/09/10/187e0/1?utm_source=twitter &utm_medium=daily_questions &utm_campaign=question_1
    The problem is they can't be.

    The real problem is nobody has a workable solution and that is across all parties
    The problem is the government is looking for others to blame.
    It would help if labour and others had a feasible answer which they simply do not

    They're not the ones taking large salaries and spending even larger sums of our taxes.
    For any opposition seeking to go into government there need practical and credible answers to these questions
    Wait till the election campaign. You're always moaning that the opposition parties don't do the Tories' job for them for free.
    Big G has one strategy.
    When in doubt, blame Labour.
    Or a curry that might have been eaten by Labour.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784

    Off topic, we went out for a stroll earlier and the local estate was mobbed with Trick or Treaters. Disappointing lack of mums in witches outfits, however.

    They were knocking on our door every couple of minutes, and got through three big tubs of Celebrations in about an hour and a half. I left the dolling out of sweeties to my wife, who seemed to know most of the people who called round anyway. I hate Halloween!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    edited October 2022
    Heathener said:

    @ydoethur if that's serious then I'm taken aback. Their mattresses are really good: £600 Hypnos.

    Funnily enough, or maybe not, I'm staying at Premier Inn tomorrow. Great value.

    Yes, it's serious.

    Edit - it may be because I use them only for short stays and I have difficulty sleeping in a strange bed. But Travelodge and Ibis don't seem to cause so big a problem, and Ibis are cheaper.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Chris said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Chris said:

    RobD said:

    Chris said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    DJ41 said:

    🚨| BREAKING: Rishi Sunak in a major crisis as ‘Deeply unhappy’ Tory MPs are ALREADY drafting letters of no confidence in him.

    https://twitter.com/politlcsuk/status/1587051559011160064?s=46&t=cCAoGMtV-HrWMD0Uh-dCiQ

    And so it begins.

    Why would an MP fuss over "drafting" a no confidence letter?

    All it needs to say is

    "Dear Graham, I have no confidence in Rishi Sunak as leader of the Conservative party. Kind regards, [Forename] [Surname], MP for [Constituency]".


    Well, if it were Liz Truss, for example, she'd really need to take her time and check everything very carefully, to avoid those mistakes that are so easy to fall into - such as signing it "Rishi Sunak".
    Liz didn't make any mistakes in her written responses to resignations - she used the correct form as every PM before her had done. I wouldn't want you to make yourself look stupid by unwittingly repeating a falsehood.
    If that's the "correct form" for signing a letter I'm a Dutchman!
    Goedenavond heer.

    It was the correct form and was not, of course, a signature.
    True it wasn't a signature. Absurd to claim it was the "correct form" for a letter.
    Except it is.
    Have you ever used it?
    Has he ever accepted the resignation of a Chancellor of the Exchequer?
    I take it that means you haven't ever used the "correct form" for a letter either.

    Shocking!
    Here’s Johnson’s reply to Javid’s resignation. with Javid’s name at the bottom…




    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sajid-javids-resignation-letter-and-the-prime-ministers-response
    It might actually be mildly interesting to know whether this peculiar way of letter-writing is a recent innovation or whether it really predates the advent of mass illiteracy. But only mildly.
    Jesus. Are you a sexton by trade?

    If you calm down and tyhink about it you will see that it is a relic of the days before window envelopes.
    I'm doubtful about the relevance of window envelopes, but certainly the receipient's name at the bottom is nothing to do with resignation letters as you implied it was earlier.
    No I didn't, I implied that ministerial resigation letters and responses thereto are a subset of relevant letters.
    Sure, sure.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    HYUFD said:

    Would be interesting to see polling on this:

    If Suella Braverman’s critics have a killer fact, they’d better deploy it fast. Because if there are many more debates like this - in which she can frame herself as the person preventing immigrants checking into £600 pound hotel rooms - she’s going to end up a national heroine.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1587149352614649856

    Note 31% of Labour voters and 35% of LD voters think boats carrying migrants should be turned back in the channel before they reach UK shores. As well as 84% of Conservative voters. Her position has some popular appeal
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/09/10/187e0/1?utm_source=twitter &utm_medium=daily_questions &utm_campaign=question_1
    The problem is they can't be.

    They can, it's an agreement with France that stands in the way.
    You mean…like the Dublin Agreement?
    I've eviscerated this argument of yours upthread.

    Please don't persist with it, and embarrass yourself.

    You're not thick.
    CR, remember that thing I told you about how you can turn personal and nasty in an argument ...?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945
    Heathener said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An example of how out of touch Twitter is: #BringBackMasks is trending at the moment.

    Still wear mine indoors. Most of the young Asians around here wear them indoors and outdoors.

    I don't even notice I wear it now. Like knickers.
    At no point in the last two years has anyone who wants to wear a mask been prevented from wearing one, morning, noon and night.

    The problem comes when the rabid pro-maskers try to force their beliefs on the rest of us.

    No thanks
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    Heathener said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An example of how out of touch Twitter is: #BringBackMasks is trending at the moment.

    Still wear mine indoors. Most of the young Asians around here wear them indoors and outdoors.

    I don't even notice I wear it now. Like knickers.
    As long as you don't confuse the two.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,662

    "The system is broken. Illegal migration is out of control"

    Braverman

    Yet the party has had twelve years. Only twelve years to fix this.

    While that’s partly fair, the boat crossings aspect is much more recent than 12 years ago. It is a global problem, and probably needs global change.
    I was just looking at the stats.

    Seems to have taken off in 2021, perhaps in response to Britain exiting the Dublin Agreement in January 21.

    I’m surprised more has not been made of this connection.
    "In 2018, the UK received a total of 37,453 asylum applications, and made 5,510 outgoing transfer requests under Dublin III. Of these 5,510 requests, 209 migrants were transferred out of the UK under Dublin III, whilst 1,215 came in, making the UK a net recipient in 2018. "

    Only 4% of Dublin requests were accepted in 2018. 4%. 209 people.

    It's an utter irrelevance.


    But Channel migrants have exploded since 2021.

    Overall asylum seekers are stable more or less, the difference is how they get here.

    One thing that I would do is for a European wide ban on dinghy sales except to people who can prove legitimate need for them.

    Second, I would invest in the immigration courts and legal system to speed up the assessment of asylum seekers.

    Thirdly, I would keep applicants in camps with medical and legal services, and only released once asylum claim is successful.

    It needs a bit of European diplomacy and a bit of money spending.

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,090

    Off topic, we went out for a stroll earlier and the local estate was mobbed with Trick or Treaters. Disappointing lack of mums in witches outfits, however.

    I was on the tube late on Saturday night. Lots of interesting costumes. And the first time I’ve seen someone snorting coke on a tube train…

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    The Dinghy People Thing is approaching crisis status. I have yet to see even the vaguest suggestion of a solution - from anyone (Tories or Labour or anyone). Apart from Rwanda. Which has not even been tried, and which might likely fail, but we won’t know til we try

    When Labour become the government in 2024 (as they surely will) this will be their problem. I wonder what they will do, with so many on their side saying, in effect “just let them all in”

    Since you’re back, I’ll repost this for you, before you go on to explaining your own solution to the Channel problem.

    Did you get around to apologising for peddling the smears ?

    https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1586799992978776065
    According to @NBCNews’ @anblanx : Police say on the record that Paul Pelosi and his suspected attacker did not know each other prior to the attack. It was a break-in.

    This directly contradicts conspiracy theories pushed by (and since deleted by) Twitter owner Elon Musk.
    Dearie me. I will repost my response. If my boyfriend beat me up with a hammer while my wife was out for the evening I would deny knowing him, I would persuade him with if necessary cash inducements to deny knowing me, and the police would say "on the record" that we didn't know each other. How would they actually know, given the obvious can't-prove-a-negative issue? And I have on several occasions broken into the houses of people I know, and never into those of people I don't.

    And what is this prissy fucking nonsense about demanding rhat other posters apologise for things? Are you the site governess?
    Demand ?
    You’re being more pompous that you accuse me of being.

    It was a civil question, which he can choose to answer or ignore.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Andy_JS said:

    Patel vs Braverman.

    "Suella Braverman has brought Home Office 'into disrepute', say Priti Patel allies" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/31/suella-braverman-has-brought-home-office-disrepute-multiple/

    I haven’t seen such an enjoyable woman-on-woman brawl since my first visit to Liverpool.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Would be interesting to see polling on this:

    If Suella Braverman’s critics have a killer fact, they’d better deploy it fast. Because if there are many more debates like this - in which she can frame herself as the person preventing immigrants checking into £600 pound hotel rooms - she’s going to end up a national heroine.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1587149352614649856

    Note 31% of Labour voters and 35% of LD voters think boats carrying migrants should be turned back in the channel before they reach UK shores. As well as 84% of Conservative voters. Her position has some popular appeal
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/09/10/187e0/1?utm_source=twitter &utm_medium=daily_questions &utm_campaign=question_1
    The problem is they can't be.

    They can, it's an agreement with France that stands in the way.
    You mean…like the Dublin Agreement?
    I've eviscerated this argument of yours upthread.

    Please don't persist with it, and embarrass yourself.

    You're not thick.
    CR, remember that thing I told you about how you can turn personal and nasty in an argument ...?
    He said you're *not* thick.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,724
    Andy_JS said:

    MikeL said:

    Tiny bit of encouragement for Democrats after lots of poor polls.

    Georgia - after 6 polls in a row with Walker ahead (one was a tie), Sienna College (A+ pollster per 538) has Warnock +3.

    I think the Democrats will probably win Georgia. Their problems are more in Nevada, Arizona, Pennsylvania.
    Penn is a real issue. Will voters overlook the health issue? Ironic - seeing as the opponent is a TV doctor.

  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,668
    edited October 2022
    Driver said:

    eek said:

    Just booked a weekend away to do some Christmas Markets and a bit of museum visiting

    I'm under strict instructions not to reveal to Mrs Eek where we are going - but I keep on wanting to sing an Ultravox song.

    This means nothing to me.
    Perhaps you'd prefer a little zither music? (Guessing here)
  • Oh FFS! If the right wingers REALLY want to stop immigration, they would dig a funeral pit and execute all illegal immigrants / channel crossers into it and broadcast it on BBC World Service. I guarantee you it would stop mass immigration.

    But nobody is going to do that so these people are going to keep arriving and you are going to have to spend money on solving the problem instead of listening to total w*nkers like Farage, Braverman and the other loons.

    Grow up and wipe the drool of your chins and the spittle off your screens. And while we are at it, just remember that if we had stayed in the EU we could have forced immigrants to be resettled back on the continent.

    And after that post I think I could do with some time away from politics and the utter whinge-fest and self-serving denial of reality from our own PB loons that passes for "solutions".

    Good night and good luck!

    How could we force immigrants to be resettled back to the continent if we were in the EU

    I utterly reject the right but to suggest money and being in the EU would solve the problem is simply unrealistic

    Maybe you could detail exactly how you would prevent these terrible crossings rather than a rant

    If the aim is just to stop the small boats, the answer is pretty obvious; let people in on normal ferries and process promptly.

    The only downside of that is that more people would make the crossing and successfully claim asylum. At the moment all the Hunter Games stuff is part of how the UK restrains numbers.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited October 2022

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Would be interesting to see polling on this:

    If Suella Braverman’s critics have a killer fact, they’d better deploy it fast. Because if there are many more debates like this - in which she can frame herself as the person preventing immigrants checking into £600 pound hotel rooms - she’s going to end up a national heroine.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1587149352614649856

    Note 31% of Labour voters and 35% of LD voters think boats carrying migrants should be turned back in the channel before they reach UK shores. As well as 84% of Conservative voters. Her position has some popular appeal
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/09/10/187e0/1?utm_source=twitter &utm_medium=daily_questions &utm_campaign=question_1
    The problem is they can't be.

    They can, it's an agreement with France that stands in the way.
    You mean…like the Dublin Agreement?
    I've eviscerated this argument of yours upthread.

    Please don't persist with it, and embarrass yourself.

    You're not thick.
    CR, remember that thing I told you about how you can turn personal and nasty in an argument ...?
    He said you're *not* thick.
    He said *I’m* not thick.
    Or perhaps he meant “thic”, because he is down with da kidz.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    Sunak and Hunt say everyone will have to pay more tax in the years ahead - not just the wealthy.

    Fiscal black hole is “eye-watering”.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-31/sunak-hunt-say-it-s-inevitable-all-britons-will-pay-more-tax

    Odd that literally nobody was talking about austerity three months ago, and now it’s become grim necessity all of a sudden.

    World Economic Forum.
    Ok. Got any material to share on that argument?
    Mmm.

    This is a brief and digestible primer.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/top-10-creepiest-and-most-dystopian-things-pushed-world-economic-forum-wef

    I don't subscribe to the views of the author, or endorse the site by the way, but I do think the WEF is a group of very stupid people and the garbage they come out with has the potential to be quite damaging.
    ... but ...

    It's Zerohedge.

    Ignore.
    And authored by Vigilant Citizen, who's even whackier. But it's basically a resume of the WEF's own public statements; there's no allegation of conspiracy.
    Don't you understand little concepts like presentation and context?

    Zerohedge may, occasionally, have some truth in it. On days on the fifteenth month ending in Z. But for most of the time, people presenting it as sources, or 'primer', are fully enveloped in the cesspit.

    With such sites, use them as a potential source to get more information from more reliable sites, not as any form of evidence in themselves.
    But this is a logic cycle. By definition, the only organs that will condemn a very powerful organisation are those considered 'beyond the pale' of polite discourse.

    At any rate, I'd have thought you'd like to know that your favourite bogeyman Putin is a WEF alumnus.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Foxy said:

    "The system is broken. Illegal migration is out of control"

    Braverman

    Yet the party has had twelve years. Only twelve years to fix this.

    While that’s partly fair, the boat crossings aspect is much more recent than 12 years ago. It is a global problem, and probably needs global change.
    I was just looking at the stats.

    Seems to have taken off in 2021, perhaps in response to Britain exiting the Dublin Agreement in January 21.

    I’m surprised more has not been made of this connection.
    "In 2018, the UK received a total of 37,453 asylum applications, and made 5,510 outgoing transfer requests under Dublin III. Of these 5,510 requests, 209 migrants were transferred out of the UK under Dublin III, whilst 1,215 came in, making the UK a net recipient in 2018. "

    Only 4% of Dublin requests were accepted in 2018. 4%. 209 people.

    It's an utter irrelevance.


    But Channel migrants have exploded since 2021.

    Overall asylum seekers are stable more or less, the difference is how they get here.

    One thing that I would do is for a European wide ban on dinghy sales except to people who can prove legitimate need for them.

    Second, I would invest in the immigration courts and legal system to speed up the assessment of asylum seekers.

    Thirdly, I would keep applicants in camps with medical and legal services, and only released once asylum claim is successful.

    It needs a bit of European diplomacy and a bit of money spending.

    1. Like saying illegal immigrants come in in cars, therefore ban car sales. Bonkers.

    2 and3. no help at all because they all, to a first approximation, get asylum, so it's just speeding things up.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    Andy_JS said:

    Patel vs Braverman.

    "Suella Braverman has brought Home Office 'into disrepute', say Priti Patel allies" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/31/suella-braverman-has-brought-home-office-disrepute-multiple/

    Astonishing how Braverman now makes Patel look like a wet liberal
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    Andy_JS said:

    Patel vs Braverman.

    "Suella Braverman has brought Home Office 'into disrepute', say Priti Patel allies" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/31/suella-braverman-has-brought-home-office-disrepute-multiple/

    I haven’t seen such an enjoyable woman-on-woman brawl since my first visit to Liverpool.
    Was it your aftershave that sent them over the edge?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015

    stodge said:

    Early evening all :)

    While we await any final polls from Denmark where they vote tomorrow, some interesting developments in Austria where they won't be voting (presumably) until 2024.

    The latest poll for the Puls 24 as follows (changes from the 2019 election):

    Social Democrats: 25% (+4)
    Freedom Party: 24% (+8)
    People's Party: 19% (-18)
    Beer Party: 10% (new)
    NEOS: 10% (+2)
    Greens: 8% (-6)

    The governing People's Party/Green Coalition has fallen from 51% to 27% (an almost UK Conservative fall in support).

    Some of the more observant may havr noticed the Beer Party on 10%. As a satirical "party", it's been around in 2014 - its current leader, one Dominik Wlazny, known professionally as Marco Pogo, stood in the recent Austrian presidential election and finished third, albeit a very long way behind but in Vienna he finished second with 10.5% albeit again well behind Van der Bellen (the Green candidate supported by the Social Democrats and People's Party) who won with 47% of the vote.

    The Beer Party's main campaigning aims as follows (from the 2020 elections):

    A beer fountain for Vienna replacing the Hochstrahlbrunnen
    Allow outdoor dining in winter
    Mandatory aptitude test for politicians
    Cover fixed pandemic-related costs to save the culture scene
    Abolish mandatory closing times for restaurants and bars
    Abolish tax on drinks in bars/restaurants and compensate with a new 50% tax on Radlers and "other atrocities"
    Universal monthly provision of a barrel of beer to all Austrian households (50L per adult and 20L per child)
    Banning Radlers in Vienna and instituting a Radler buyback program exchanging Radlers for beer
    Increasing voter turnout by allowing voters to "return the seriousness to Austrian politics that it deserves"
    A person is a person, live and let live (except for Radler-drinkers)


    There seems to be an issue with Radlers and its drinkers but there's one or two ideas in the above to which I'm sure we could all sign up.

    Without the Beer Party (or assuming they're too busy in the Gasthaus to campaign):

    Social Democrats: 27%
    Freedom Party: 25%
    People's Party: 20%
    NEOS: 11%
    Greens: 11%

    Christ, can we get a Beer Party here too, please?
    It would soon split between the "Real" and the "Craft" factions.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,724
    Guess we can expect "the system is broken" front pages tonight.


  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    edited October 2022

    Oh FFS! If the right wingers REALLY want to stop immigration, they would dig a funeral pit and execute all illegal immigrants / channel crossers into it and broadcast it on BBC World Service. I guarantee you it would stop mass immigration.

    But nobody is going to do that so these people are going to keep arriving and you are going to have to spend money on solving the problem instead of listening to total w*nkers like Farage, Braverman and the other loons.

    Grow up and wipe the drool of your chins and the spittle off your screens. And while we are at it, just remember that if we had stayed in the EU we could have forced immigrants to be resettled back on the continent.

    And after that post I think I could do with some time away from politics and the utter whinge-fest and self-serving denial of reality from our own PB loons that passes for "solutions".

    Good night and good luck!

    How could we force immigrants to be resettled back to the continent if we were in the EU

    I utterly reject the right but to suggest money and being in the EU would solve the problem is simply unrealistic

    Maybe you could detail exactly how you would prevent these terrible crossings rather than a rant

    This is a much better debate on here on this, than the House of Commons just had.

    Big G responding to questions at the governments dispatch box, leaving less hostages to fortune than Sievella’s answers.

    Can I just remind the Rt Hon Member for Windswept Coastline North Wales, what our esteemed PB friend and colleague RCS, Rt Hon Member for the Flame Imperishable, explained to us as to why Labour wont have any issue at all with migrants crossing channel, when they are in power. Its a theory needing to be aired again here in this debate. Preferably by RSC Ilúvatar himself.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    HYUFD said:

    I think we are all agreed.

    It's time.

    It's time for Liz Truss.

    Mary Elizabeth Truss.

    2.0

    BRING IT

    There is more chance Jacob Rees Mogg becomes next Tory leader and PM now than Truss
    I know your true feelings: The Truss. Universe Boss. Her time.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    RobD said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    DJ41 said:

    🚨| BREAKING: Rishi Sunak in a major crisis as ‘Deeply unhappy’ Tory MPs are ALREADY drafting letters of no confidence in him.

    https://twitter.com/politlcsuk/status/1587051559011160064?s=46&t=cCAoGMtV-HrWMD0Uh-dCiQ

    And so it begins.

    Why would an MP fuss over "drafting" a no confidence letter?

    All it needs to say is

    "Dear Graham, I have no confidence in Rishi Sunak as leader of the Conservative party. Kind regards, [Forename] [Surname], MP for [Constituency]".


    Well, if it were Liz Truss, for example, she'd really need to take her time and check everything very carefully, to avoid those mistakes that are so easy to fall into - such as signing it "Rishi Sunak".
    Liz didn't make any mistakes in her written responses to resignations - she used the correct form as every PM before her had done. I wouldn't want you to make yourself look stupid by unwittingly repeating a falsehood.
    If that's the "correct form" for signing a letter I'm a Dutchman!
    Someone dug up an older letter showing it is in fact the form used.

    And here's fullfact on the matter:

    https://fullfact.org/online/kwasi-kwarteng-letter-signature/
    It’s a spacing issue.

    It’s convention to include the addressee’s name in the bottom left (so when the letter is folded in three the name appears in the little plastic window in the envelope).

    But Truss signed over the name rather than in the middle of the page (partly because she has a large signature) and because the letter was only one page there wasn’t much space

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,160

    Oh FFS! If the right wingers REALLY want to stop immigration, they would dig a funeral pit and execute all illegal immigrants / channel crossers into it and broadcast it on BBC World Service. I guarantee you it would stop mass immigration.

    But nobody is going to do that so these people are going to keep arriving and you are going to have to spend money on solving the problem instead of listening to total w*nkers like Farage, Braverman and the other loons.

    Grow up and wipe the drool of your chins and the spittle off your screens. And while we are at it, just remember that if we had stayed in the EU we could have forced immigrants to be resettled back on the continent.

    And after that post I think I could do with some time away from politics and the utter whinge-fest and self-serving denial of reality from our own PB loons that passes for "solutions".

    Good night and good luck!

    How could we force immigrants to be resettled back to the continent if we were in the EU

    I utterly reject the right but to suggest money and being in the EU would solve the problem is simply unrealistic

    Maybe you could detail exactly how you would prevent these terrible crossings rather than a rant

    This is a much better debate on here on this, than the House of Commons just had.

    Big G responding to questions at the governments dispatch box, leaving less hostages to fortune than Sievella’s answers.

    Can I just remind the Rt Hon Member for Windswept Coastline North Wales, what our esteemed PB friend and colleague RCS, Rt Hon Member for the Flame Imperishable, explained to us as to why Labour wont have any issue at all with migrants crossing channel, when they are in power. It needs to be issued again here in this debate. Preferably by RSC Ilúvatar himself.
    Eh?
  • TresTres Posts: 2,700
    edited October 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Tres said:

    Tories gone full UKIP. Nasty nasty party.

    It isn't nasty to be against illegal migration.
    Putting limits on immigration is just sensible politics as usual, hysterical ranting about an invasion is unbecoming for junior spad let alone the Home Secretary.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,724
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Patel vs Braverman.

    "Suella Braverman has brought Home Office 'into disrepute', say Priti Patel allies" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/31/suella-braverman-has-brought-home-office-disrepute-multiple/

    Astonishing how Braverman now makes Patel look like a wet liberal
    This is how the GOP though became completely unmoored from reality. Each candidate trying to be more insane and extreme than the next in a race to the cesspool of undemocratic madness.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457

    HYUFD said:

    Would be interesting to see polling on this:

    If Suella Braverman’s critics have a killer fact, they’d better deploy it fast. Because if there are many more debates like this - in which she can frame herself as the person preventing immigrants checking into £600 pound hotel rooms - she’s going to end up a national heroine.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1587149352614649856

    Note 31% of Labour voters and 35% of LD voters think boats carrying migrants should be turned back in the channel before they reach UK shores. As well as 84% of Conservative voters. Her position has some popular appeal
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/09/10/187e0/1?utm_source=twitter &utm_medium=daily_questions &utm_campaign=question_1
    The problem is they can't be.

    They can, it's an agreement with France that stands in the way.
    You mean…like the Dublin Agreement?
    I've eviscerated this argument of yours upthread.

    Please don't persist with it, and embarrass yourself.

    You're not thick.
    You haven’t, though.

    You’ve pointed out that the previous Dublin Agreement played only a minor element in the resettlement of asylum seekers. Indeed, the UK was a very modest net “loser”.

    But that doesn’t preclude the possibility that Britain is more attractive without the Dublin Agreement in place, nor the possibility that France was a more effective policeman knowing that the Dublin Agreement was extant.

    So pull your head out of your arse.

    Pathetic.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592

    Sunak and Hunt say everyone will have to pay more tax in the years ahead - not just the wealthy.

    Fiscal black hole is “eye-watering”.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-31/sunak-hunt-say-it-s-inevitable-all-britons-will-pay-more-tax

    Odd that literally nobody was talking about austerity three months ago, and now it’s become grim necessity all of a sudden.

    World Economic Forum.
    Ok. Got any material to share on that argument?
    Mmm.

    This is a brief and digestible primer.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/top-10-creepiest-and-most-dystopian-things-pushed-world-economic-forum-wef

    I don't subscribe to the views of the author, or endorse the site by the way, but I do think the WEF is a group of very stupid people and the garbage they come out with has the potential to be quite damaging.
    ... but ...

    It's Zerohedge.

    Ignore.
    And authored by Vigilant Citizen, who's even whackier. But it's basically a resume of the WEF's own public statements; there's no allegation of conspiracy.
    Don't you understand little concepts like presentation and context?

    Zerohedge may, occasionally, have some truth in it. On days on the fifteenth month ending in Z. But for most of the time, people presenting it as sources, or 'primer', are fully enveloped in the cesspit.

    With such sites, use them as a potential source to get more information from more reliable sites, not as any form of evidence in themselves.
    But this is a logic cycle. By definition, the only organs that will condemn a very powerful organisation are those considered 'beyond the pale' of polite discourse.

    (Snip)
    Private Eye. Often politely discussed (often with laughter), and often hits valid targets.

    Argument disproven. ;)

    (Having said that, even Private Eye has occasional big misses. Its MMR coverage being a sad example.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    HYUFD said:

    I think we are all agreed.

    It's time.

    It's time for Liz Truss.

    Mary Elizabeth Truss.

    2.0

    BRING IT

    There is more chance Jacob Rees Mogg becomes next Tory leader and PM now than Truss
    I know your true feelings: The Truss. Universe Boss. Her time.
    The only way she is the Universe Boss is that she left our economy looking somewhat Gayle swept.
  • Guess we can expect "the system is broken" front pages tonight.


    12 years of Tory mis-rule!
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Nigelb said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    The Dinghy People Thing is approaching crisis status. I have yet to see even the vaguest suggestion of a solution - from anyone (Tories or Labour or anyone). Apart from Rwanda. Which has not even been tried, and which might likely fail, but we won’t know til we try

    When Labour become the government in 2024 (as they surely will) this will be their problem. I wonder what they will do, with so many on their side saying, in effect “just let them all in”

    Since you’re back, I’ll repost this for you, before you go on to explaining your own solution to the Channel problem.

    Did you get around to apologising for peddling the smears ?

    https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1586799992978776065
    According to @NBCNews’ @anblanx : Police say on the record that Paul Pelosi and his suspected attacker did not know each other prior to the attack. It was a break-in.

    This directly contradicts conspiracy theories pushed by (and since deleted by) Twitter owner Elon Musk.
    Dearie me. I will repost my response. If my boyfriend beat me up with a hammer while my wife was out for the evening I would deny knowing him, I would persuade him with if necessary cash inducements to deny knowing me, and the police would say "on the record" that we didn't know each other. How would they actually know, given the obvious can't-prove-a-negative issue? And I have on several occasions broken into the houses of people I know, and never into those of people I don't.

    And what is this prissy fucking nonsense about demanding rhat other posters apologise for things? Are you the site governess?
    Demand ?
    You’re being more pompous that you accuse me of being.

    It was a civil question, which he can choose to answer or ignore.
    Did you get around to stopping beating your wife yet?

    Civil question.

    Twit.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Straw clutching. Dems always so better on registered voter rather than likely voter numbers. Often by huge margins.

    Yes, there is absolutely a chance that likely voter screens are missing low propensity Dems like how they missed Trump votets in 2016. But they could equally be missing Qanon wackos being activated.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259

    "The system is broken. Illegal migration is out of control"

    Braverman

    Yet the party has had twelve years. Only twelve years to fix this.

    That’s a little unfair - it implies that the problem is unchanged from 12 years ago. I think the problem has got worse and the systems have broken/the government has not responded effectively
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited October 2022

    Guess we can expect "the system is broken" front pages tonight.


    12 years of Tory mis-rule!
    Eh, 7-8 years. No one misrules 100% of the time.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Would be interesting to see polling on this:

    If Suella Braverman’s critics have a killer fact, they’d better deploy it fast. Because if there are many more debates like this - in which she can frame herself as the person preventing immigrants checking into £600 pound hotel rooms - she’s going to end up a national heroine.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1587149352614649856

    Note 31% of Labour voters and 35% of LD voters think boats carrying migrants should be turned back in the channel before they reach UK shores. As well as 84% of Conservative voters. Her position has some popular appeal
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/09/10/187e0/1?utm_source=twitter &utm_medium=daily_questions &utm_campaign=question_1
    The problem is they can't be.

    They can, it's an agreement with France that stands in the way.
    You mean…like the Dublin Agreement?
    I've eviscerated this argument of yours upthread.

    Please don't persist with it, and embarrass yourself.

    You're not thick.
    CR, remember that thing I told you about how you can turn personal and nasty in an argument ...?
    Err, there's nothing personal and nasty in this.

    I'm simply warning @Gardenwalker to not embarrass himself as he knows perfectly well the Dublin Convention is nothing close to even the beginning of an answer.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited October 2022
    kyf_100 said:

    Heathener said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An example of how out of touch Twitter is: #BringBackMasks is trending at the moment.

    Still wear mine indoors. Most of the young Asians around here wear them indoors and outdoors.

    I don't even notice I wear it now. Like knickers.
    At no point in the last two years has anyone who wants to wear a mask been prevented from wearing one, morning, noon and night.

    The problem comes when the rabid pro-maskers try to force their beliefs on the rest of us.

    No thanks
    Quite. Each to their own. No compulsion.
    Seems a weird time for it to be trending though with cases and 'hospitalisations' in decline again.
    There would be little chance of mass compliance again anyway so unless the Ebola variant swings by its moot
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Heathener said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An example of how out of touch Twitter is: #BringBackMasks is trending at the moment.

    Still wear mine indoors. Most of the young Asians around here wear them indoors and outdoors.

    I don't even notice I wear it now. Like knickers.
    Out of interest, have you had covid yet? Often seems to remove an element of fear for people. (Not wanting to imply you are afraid btw).
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Chris said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Chris said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Chris said:

    RobD said:

    Chris said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    DJ41 said:

    🚨| BREAKING: Rishi Sunak in a major crisis as ‘Deeply unhappy’ Tory MPs are ALREADY drafting letters of no confidence in him.

    https://twitter.com/politlcsuk/status/1587051559011160064?s=46&t=cCAoGMtV-HrWMD0Uh-dCiQ

    And so it begins.

    Why would an MP fuss over "drafting" a no confidence letter?

    All it needs to say is

    "Dear Graham, I have no confidence in Rishi Sunak as leader of the Conservative party. Kind regards, [Forename] [Surname], MP for [Constituency]".


    Well, if it were Liz Truss, for example, she'd really need to take her time and check everything very carefully, to avoid those mistakes that are so easy to fall into - such as signing it "Rishi Sunak".
    Liz didn't make any mistakes in her written responses to resignations - she used the correct form as every PM before her had done. I wouldn't want you to make yourself look stupid by unwittingly repeating a falsehood.
    If that's the "correct form" for signing a letter I'm a Dutchman!
    Goedenavond heer.

    It was the correct form and was not, of course, a signature.
    True it wasn't a signature. Absurd to claim it was the "correct form" for a letter.
    Except it is.
    Have you ever used it?
    Has he ever accepted the resignation of a Chancellor of the Exchequer?
    I take it that means you haven't ever used the "correct form" for a letter either.

    Shocking!
    Here’s Johnson’s reply to Javid’s resignation. with Javid’s name at the bottom…




    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sajid-javids-resignation-letter-and-the-prime-ministers-response
    It might actually be mildly interesting to know whether this peculiar way of letter-writing is a recent innovation or whether it really predates the advent of mass illiteracy. But only mildly.
    Jesus. Are you a sexton by trade?

    If you calm down and tyhink about it you will see that it is a relic of the days before window envelopes.
    I'm doubtful about the relevance of window envelopes, but certainly the receipient's name at the bottom is nothing to do with resignation letters as you implied it was earlier.
    No I didn't, I implied that ministerial resigation letters and responses thereto are a subset of relevant letters.
    Sure, sure.
    top tip: editing my post in the quote in your reply, does not edit the original post. Anyone reading the thread can see what you have done and why.
  • Heathener said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An example of how out of touch Twitter is: #BringBackMasks is trending at the moment.

    Still wear mine indoors. Most of the young Asians around here wear them indoors and outdoors.

    I don't even notice I wear it now. Like knickers.
    Interesting. Without in any way commenting on the rights or wrongs of it I would say that perhaps less than one in a thousand seem to be wearing them where I am in the shires. If you do see one it is invariably being worn by someone advanced in years and appearing to have underlying health issues.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Would be interesting to see polling on this:

    If Suella Braverman’s critics have a killer fact, they’d better deploy it fast. Because if there are many more debates like this - in which she can frame herself as the person preventing immigrants checking into £600 pound hotel rooms - she’s going to end up a national heroine.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1587149352614649856

    Note 31% of Labour voters and 35% of LD voters think boats carrying migrants should be turned back in the channel before they reach UK shores. As well as 84% of Conservative voters. Her position has some popular appeal
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/09/10/187e0/1?utm_source=twitter &utm_medium=daily_questions &utm_campaign=question_1
    The problem is they can't be.

    They can, it's an agreement with France that stands in the way.
    You mean…like the Dublin Agreement?
    I've eviscerated this argument of yours upthread.

    Please don't persist with it, and embarrass yourself.

    You're not thick.
    CR, remember that thing I told you about how you can turn personal and nasty in an argument ...?
    He said you're *not* thick.
    He said *I’m* not thick.
    Or perhaps he meant “thic”, because he is down with da kidz.
    Apparently not.

    I went into the wrong pub today and asked for real ale. I was told they didn't serve any because it didn't sell and they cater to a "younger crowd".

    That hurt.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Patel vs Braverman.

    "Suella Braverman has brought Home Office 'into disrepute', say Priti Patel allies" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/31/suella-braverman-has-brought-home-office-disrepute-multiple/

    Astonishing how Braverman now makes Patel look like a wet liberal
    I'm wondering who her successor will be that will make Braverman look like a wet liberal.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457

    Oh FFS! If the right wingers REALLY want to stop immigration, they would dig a funeral pit and execute all illegal immigrants / channel crossers into it and broadcast it on BBC World Service. I guarantee you it would stop mass immigration.

    But nobody is going to do that so these people are going to keep arriving and you are going to have to spend money on solving the problem instead of listening to total w*nkers like Farage, Braverman and the other loons.

    Grow up and wipe the drool of your chins and the spittle off your screens. And while we are at it, just remember that if we had stayed in the EU we could have forced immigrants to be resettled back on the continent.

    And after that post I think I could do with some time away from politics and the utter whinge-fest and self-serving denial of reality from our own PB loons that passes for "solutions".

    Good night and good luck!

    How could we force immigrants to be resettled back to the continent if we were in the EU

    I utterly reject the right but to suggest money and being in the EU would solve the problem is simply unrealistic

    Maybe you could detail exactly how you would prevent these terrible crossings rather than a rant

    If the aim is just to stop the small boats, the answer is pretty obvious; let people in on normal ferries and process promptly.

    The only downside of that is that more people would make the crossing and successfully claim asylum. At the moment all the Hunter Games stuff is part of how the UK restrains numbers.
    At least you admit it.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    Just back from Spain. Very pleasant week in Zaragoza.

    Mask report: Spain has a mask requirement on public transport which was, as far as I could tell, complied with 100%. Elsewhere, one or two people wearing masks, but the vast majority of people out for their evening paseo or in the museums were maskless.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    Ishmael_Z said:

    The whole point of the Braverman performance was to tick every hard right box imaginable, using the most inflammatory language, and so to make it impossible for Sunak to sack her without major political repercussions. Her message to him is basically: "If I go, you do too". And Sunak's problem is that she could well be right.

    The thing is, she knows she is right; the current level of boat people is unsustainable, and when you know there's no comeback, you can go completely ham on something and challenge people to oppose you.

    What is more challenging for her is solving the damn thing.
    It's a classic dividing line issue, thought, because the Left - and plenty of (most?) liberal centrists too - refuse to accept it's even an issue, and to the extent they do they argue to make it easier, and therefore cede the entire terrain to the Conservatives - even though they have abjectly failed to solve it.

    It's clever politics. It's risky for the Conservatives only if they get outflanked to the Right.

    They have to deliver. That's the risk.

    They don't, as long as they have someone to blame for the failure- probably Human Rights Lawyers. In fact for some people, solving the problem would render them obsolete and that would never do.

    It's horrible, but the retail politics makes sense.

    Rhetoric without delivery after 12 years of power will not reap rewards. Most people are not hate-filled Daily Mail readers who view refugees as sub-human scum who deserve firebombing, diphtheria and detention. They just want solutions. If the Tories are not providing any they will look elsewhere.


    They want solutions which don't involve shelling out £200/person/night indefinitely, though.
    Tell Premier Inn you are only paying £100 a night.

    When they object ask if they want a health & safety inspection. Of every facility. Every week. Until they agree.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    Would be interesting to see polling on this:

    If Suella Braverman’s critics have a killer fact, they’d better deploy it fast. Because if there are many more debates like this - in which she can frame herself as the person preventing immigrants checking into £600 pound hotel rooms - she’s going to end up a national heroine.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1587149352614649856

    Note 31% of Labour voters and 35% of LD voters think boats carrying migrants should be turned back in the channel before they reach UK shores. As well as 84% of Conservative voters. Her position has some popular appeal
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/09/10/187e0/1?utm_source=twitter &utm_medium=daily_questions &utm_campaign=question_1
    The problem is they can't be.

    They can, it's an agreement with France that stands in the way.
    You mean…like the Dublin Agreement?
    I've eviscerated this argument of yours upthread.

    Please don't persist with it, and embarrass yourself.

    You're not thick.
    CR, remember that thing I told you about how you can turn personal and nasty in an argument ...?
    He said you're *not* thick.
    He said *I’m* not thick.
    Or perhaps he meant “thic”, because he is down with da kidz.
    Apparently not.

    I went into the wrong pub today and asked for real ale. I was told they didn't serve any because it didn't sell and they cater to a "younger crowd".

    That hurt.
    Ouch. I think a pub that failed to serve proper beer round here would struggle.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Patel vs Braverman.

    "Suella Braverman has brought Home Office 'into disrepute', say Priti Patel allies" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/10/31/suella-braverman-has-brought-home-office-disrepute-multiple/

    Astonishing how Braverman now makes Patel look like a wet liberal
    I'm wondering who her successor will be that will make Braverman look like a wet liberal.
    Peter Bone's wife
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259

    Would be interesting to see polling on this:

    If Suella Braverman’s critics have a killer fact, they’d better deploy it fast. Because if there are many more debates like this - in which she can frame herself as the person preventing immigrants checking into £600 pound hotel rooms - she’s going to end up a national heroine.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1587149352614649856

    Of course no-one thinks we should pay £600 a night for hotel rooms. It is just that some of us will blame the people in power for the last 12 years whereas others prefer to blame everyone else.
    Who is she blaming for this outrage?

    Priti Patel?
    Grant Shapps?
    Herself?

    She is literally the Home Secretary, the buck stops with her.
    To be fair the buck’s been on a roll this year

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    edited October 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    Oh FFS! If the right wingers REALLY want to stop immigration, they would dig a funeral pit and execute all illegal immigrants / channel crossers into it and broadcast it on BBC World Service. I guarantee you it would stop mass immigration.

    But nobody is going to do that so these people are going to keep arriving and you are going to have to spend money on solving the problem instead of listening to total w*nkers like Farage, Braverman and the other loons.

    Grow up and wipe the drool of your chins and the spittle off your screens. And while we are at it, just remember that if we had stayed in the EU we could have forced immigrants to be resettled back on the continent.

    And after that post I think I could do with some time away from politics and the utter whinge-fest and self-serving denial of reality from our own PB loons that passes for "solutions".

    Good night and good luck!

    How could we force immigrants to be resettled back to the continent if we were in the EU

    I utterly reject the right but to suggest money and being in the EU would solve the problem is simply unrealistic

    Maybe you could detail exactly how you would prevent these terrible crossings rather than a rant

    This is a much better debate on here on this, than the House of Commons just had.

    Big G responding to questions at the governments dispatch box, leaving less hostages to fortune than Sievella’s answers.

    Can I just remind the Rt Hon Member for Windswept Coastline North Wales, what our esteemed PB friend and colleague RCS, Rt Hon Member for the Flame Imperishable, explained to us as to why Labour wont have any issue at all with migrants crossing channel, when they are in power. It needs to be issued again here in this debate. Preferably by RSC Ilúvatar himself.
    Eh?
    Ohhhhhh. I’m sure your analysis was this problem would just disappear, sometime soon?

    By all means call me out if I have got that wrong, I will take your word for it and not go searching back through old comments.
  • eek said:

    Just booked a weekend away to do some Christmas Markets and a bit of museum visiting

    I'm under strict instructions not to reveal to Mrs Eek where we are going - but I keep on wanting to sing an Ultravox song.

    Glasgow?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    ...

    I wonder if this was the headline Braverman’s critics were hoping for:

    Braverman reveals they are up to 4 STAR hotels for migrants. Says bad use of public money. Gobsmacking.

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1587140334852661249?

    We need to pinpoint the HS responsible for this outrage. The Postman? Jacqui Smith? Reid? maybe Blunkett or Straw?

    I am going for Jacqui Smith, because I quite like the Postman.

    P.S. I have an mid morning flight out of Bristol next week. I have a Premier Inn booked for £49 on the seafront at Weston for the night before. Perhaps I should be be engaged to procure accommodation for asylum seekers rather than the Government.
    It will all be down to Corbyn by bedtime
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Phil said:

    Just back from Spain. Very pleasant week in Zaragoza.

    Mask report: Spain has a mask requirement on public transport which was, as far as I could tell, complied with 100%. Elsewhere, one or two people wearing masks, but the vast majority of people out for their evening paseo or in the museums were maskless.

    Would you recommend Zaragoza? Thinking of stopping there en route from Bilbao to Barcelona.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383

    Off topic, we went out for a stroll earlier and the local estate was mobbed with Trick or Treaters. Disappointing lack of mums in witches outfits, however.

    I was on the tube late on Saturday night. Lots of interesting costumes. And the first time I’ve seen someone snorting coke on a tube train…

    Gosh, that sounds dangerous. Hope they didn't fall off.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Chris said:

    RobD said:

    Chris said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    DJ41 said:

    🚨| BREAKING: Rishi Sunak in a major crisis as ‘Deeply unhappy’ Tory MPs are ALREADY drafting letters of no confidence in him.

    https://twitter.com/politlcsuk/status/1587051559011160064?s=46&t=cCAoGMtV-HrWMD0Uh-dCiQ

    And so it begins.

    Why would an MP fuss over "drafting" a no confidence letter?

    All it needs to say is

    "Dear Graham, I have no confidence in Rishi Sunak as leader of the Conservative party. Kind regards, [Forename] [Surname], MP for [Constituency]".


    Well, if it were Liz Truss, for example, she'd really need to take her time and check everything very carefully, to avoid those mistakes that are so easy to fall into - such as signing it "Rishi Sunak".
    Liz didn't make any mistakes in her written responses to resignations - she used the correct form as every PM before her had done. I wouldn't want you to make yourself look stupid by unwittingly repeating a falsehood.
    If that's the "correct form" for signing a letter I'm a Dutchman!
    Goedenavond heer.

    It was the correct form and was not, of course, a signature.
    True it wasn't a signature. Absurd to claim it was the "correct form" for a letter.
    Except it is.
    Have you ever used it?
    Has he ever accepted the resignation of a Chancellor of the Exchequer?
    I take it that means you haven't ever used the "correct form" for a letter either.

    Shocking!
    Here’s Johnson’s reply to Javid’s resignation. with Javid’s name at the bottom…




    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sajid-javids-resignation-letter-and-the-prime-ministers-response
    It might actually be mildly interesting to know whether this peculiar way of letter-writing is a recent innovation or whether it really predates the advent of mass illiteracy. But only mildly.
    The name is the addressee - for the envelope window. Not part of the signature panel at all
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    kyf_100 said:

    Heathener said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An example of how out of touch Twitter is: #BringBackMasks is trending at the moment.

    Still wear mine indoors. Most of the young Asians around here wear them indoors and outdoors.

    I don't even notice I wear it now. Like knickers.
    At no point in the last two years has anyone who wants to wear a mask been prevented from wearing one, morning, noon and night.

    The problem comes when the rabid pro-maskers try to force their beliefs on the rest of us.

    No thanks
    Indeed as far as I know masking was perfectly legal before Covid.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    Off topic, we went out for a stroll earlier and the local estate was mobbed with Trick or Treaters. Disappointing lack of mums in witches outfits, however.

    I was on the tube late on Saturday night. Lots of interesting costumes. And the first time I’ve seen someone snorting coke on a tube train…

    Did you inform the police?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    This morning the British ambassador in Paris handed the French government a final note stating that unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were prepared at once to prevent all further migrant channel crossings, a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with France.

    Problem solved. Strafe the fuckers, because who knows they are not operation Sealion all over again?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Nigelb said:

    I like the Japanese “low key Halloween” tradition.
    https://twitter.com/makiwi/status/1322494883802828800

    We've 'done' Halloween for the first time this year. I've resisted it so far, but this year I gave in. We've carved pumpkins before, but we've never lit one up outside out front door (the village's sign that you're taking part). So far we've had about a hundred people at our front door in a wide variety of outfits; from Harry Potter to a blow-up Samuraa suit. And it's been tremendous fun. The little 'uns loved it.

    Pretty expensive in sweets, but the smiles are worth the cost. :)
    Again, that apostrophe. It is uns, not 'uns, unless of course you see them as little 'un's?

    I'm cogitating how small, cheap, and easily inserted into a Quality Street a tab of LSD is.
    You joke, but the police came round yesterday to warn that people were spiking halloween candy with fentanyl and so we should be careful
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    Ishmael_Z said:

    This morning the British ambassador in Paris handed the French government a final note stating that unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were prepared at once to prevent all further migrant channel crossings, a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with France.

    One of your better ones.

    Gets a like.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Heathener said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An example of how out of touch Twitter is: #BringBackMasks is trending at the moment.

    Still wear mine indoors. Most of the young Asians around here wear them indoors and outdoors.

    I don't even notice I wear it now. Like knickers.
    Interesting. Without in any way commenting on the rights or wrongs of it I would say that perhaps less than one in a thousand seem to be wearing them where I am in the shires. If you do see one it is invariably being worn by someone advanced in years and appearing to have underlying health issues.
    Yep same here
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The whole point of the Braverman performance was to tick every hard right box imaginable, using the most inflammatory language, and so to make it impossible for Sunak to sack her without major political repercussions. Her message to him is basically: "If I go, you do too". And Sunak's problem is that she could well be right.

    The thing is, she knows she is right; the current level of boat people is unsustainable, and when you know there's no comeback, you can go completely ham on something and challenge people to oppose you.

    What is more challenging for her is solving the damn thing.
    It's a classic dividing line issue, thought, because the Left - and plenty of (most?) liberal centrists too - refuse to accept it's even an issue, and to the extent they do they argue to make it easier, and therefore cede the entire terrain to the Conservatives - even though they have abjectly failed to solve it.

    It's clever politics. It's risky for the Conservatives only if they get outflanked to the Right.

    They have to deliver. That's the risk.

    They don't, as long as they have someone to blame for the failure- probably Human Rights Lawyers. In fact for some people, solving the problem would render them obsolete and that would never do.

    It's horrible, but the retail politics makes sense.

    Rhetoric without delivery after 12 years of power will not reap rewards. Most people are not hate-filled Daily Mail readers who view refugees as sub-human scum who deserve firebombing, diphtheria and detention. They just want solutions. If the Tories are not providing any they will look elsewhere.


    They want solutions which don't involve shelling out £200/person/night indefinitely, though.
    Tell Premier Inn you are only paying £100 a night.

    When they object ask if they want a health & safety inspection. Of every facility. Every week. Until they agree.
    I would've thought that would cost more than the £100 a night it would save...

    So I'm sure Braverman will think it's an excellent idea!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    I've got this in my head again now:

    https://youtu.be/sBxr2_w5ga8
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    Ishmael_Z said:

    This morning the British ambassador in Paris handed the French government a final note stating that unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were prepared at once to prevent all further migrant channel crossings, a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with France.

    Problem solved. Strafe the fuckers, because who knows they are not operation Sealion all over again?

    Weren't we sealion?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259

    "The system is broken. Illegal migration is out of control"

    Braverman

    Yet the party has had twelve years. Only twelve years to fix this.

    While that’s partly fair, the boat crossings aspect is much more recent than 12 years ago. It is a global problem, and probably needs global change.
    I was just looking at the stats.

    Seems to have taken off in 2021, perhaps in response to Britain exiting the Dublin Agreement in January 21.

    I’m surprised more has not been made of this connection.
    "In 2018, the UK received a total of 37,453 asylum applications, and made 5,510 outgoing transfer requests under Dublin III. Of these 5,510 requests, 209 migrants were transferred out of the UK under Dublin III, whilst 1,215 came in, making the UK a net recipient in 2018. "

    Only 4% of Dublin requests were accepted in 2018. 4%. 209 people.

    It's an utter irrelevance.


    We are also the outlier on both measures - we accept far more incoming requests (%) than others and don’t implement many outgoing requests

  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    edited October 2022

    Phil said:

    Just back from Spain. Very pleasant week in Zaragoza.

    Mask report: Spain has a mask requirement on public transport which was, as far as I could tell, complied with 100%. Elsewhere, one or two people wearing masks, but the vast majority of people out for their evening paseo or in the museums were maskless.

    Would you recommend Zaragoza? Thinking of stopping there en route from Bilbao to Barcelona.
    The two Cathedrals are impressive & there are some decentish Roman remains in the centre. Also a Goya museum with a full set of his late etchings / prints if that’s your thing. The origami museum is a small gem.

    Tapas in the El Tubo district was excellent & very reasonably priced.

    The city itself is a tad rundown & was presumably hit very hard by the financial crash. I wouldn’t necessarily go out of your way, but if it’s en route? Sure.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    ....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Ishmael_Z said:

    This morning the British ambassador in Paris handed the French government a final note stating that unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were prepared at once to prevent all further migrant channel crossings, a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with France.

    Problem solved. Strafe the fuckers, because who knows they are not operation Sealion all over again?

    I am genuinely astonished to see that post has been liked by somebody who isn't TSE.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    Ishmael_Z said:

    This morning the British ambassador in Paris handed the French government a final note stating that unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were prepared at once to prevent all further migrant channel crossings, a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with France.

    Problem solved. Strafe the fuckers, because who knows they are not operation Sealion all over again?

    Weren't we sealion?
    Duh!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Ishmael_Z said:

    This morning the British ambassador in Paris handed the French government a final note stating that unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were prepared at once to prevent all further migrant channel crossings, a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with France.

    Problem solved. Strafe the fuckers, because who knows they are not operation Sealion all over again?

    Weren't we sealion?
    German planned invasion of England was sealion, hence the little boats ‘invading’.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457

    "The system is broken. Illegal migration is out of control"

    Braverman

    Yet the party has had twelve years. Only twelve years to fix this.

    While that’s partly fair, the boat crossings aspect is much more recent than 12 years ago. It is a global problem, and probably needs global change.
    I was just looking at the stats.

    Seems to have taken off in 2021, perhaps in response to Britain exiting the Dublin Agreement in January 21.

    I’m surprised more has not been made of this connection.
    "In 2018, the UK received a total of 37,453 asylum applications, and made 5,510 outgoing transfer requests under Dublin III. Of these 5,510 requests, 209 migrants were transferred out of the UK under Dublin III, whilst 1,215 came in, making the UK a net recipient in 2018. "

    Only 4% of Dublin requests were accepted in 2018. 4%. 209 people.

    It's an utter irrelevance.


    We are also the outlier on both measures - we accept far more incoming requests (%) than others and don’t implement many outgoing requests

    Yes, the reality is this only really works if they claim asylum in another EU country first, and we can prove it.

    The vast vast majority coming across aren't stupid enough to make that rookie error.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    ydoethur said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    This morning the British ambassador in Paris handed the French government a final note stating that unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were prepared at once to prevent all further migrant channel crossings, a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with France.

    Problem solved. Strafe the fuckers, because who knows they are not operation Sealion all over again?

    I am genuinely astonished to see that post has been liked by somebody who isn't TSE.
    I’m genuinely surprised that it wasn’t written by Dura Ace.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437
    edited October 2022

    Ishmael_Z said:

    This morning the British ambassador in Paris handed the French government a final note stating that unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were prepared at once to prevent all further migrant channel crossings, a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with France.

    Problem solved. Strafe the fuckers, because who knows they are not operation Sealion all over again?

    Weren't we sealion?
    German planned invasion of England was sealion, hence the little boats ‘invading’.
    Ah OK.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Phil said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    This morning the British ambassador in Paris handed the French government a final note stating that unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were prepared at once to prevent all further migrant channel crossings, a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with France.

    Problem solved. Strafe the fuckers, because who knows they are not operation Sealion all over again?

    I am genuinely astonished to see that post has been liked by somebody who isn't TSE.
    I’m genuinely surprised that it wasn’t written by Dura Ace.
    Not enough swears.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The whole point of the Braverman performance was to tick every hard right box imaginable, using the most inflammatory language, and so to make it impossible for Sunak to sack her without major political repercussions. Her message to him is basically: "If I go, you do too". And Sunak's problem is that she could well be right.

    The thing is, she knows she is right; the current level of boat people is unsustainable, and when you know there's no comeback, you can go completely ham on something and challenge people to oppose you.

    What is more challenging for her is solving the damn thing.
    It's a classic dividing line issue, thought, because the Left - and plenty of (most?) liberal centrists too - refuse to accept it's even an issue, and to the extent they do they argue to make it easier, and therefore cede the entire terrain to the Conservatives - even though they have abjectly failed to solve it.

    It's clever politics. It's risky for the Conservatives only if they get outflanked to the Right.

    They have to deliver. That's the risk.

    They don't, as long as they have someone to blame for the failure- probably Human Rights Lawyers. In fact for some people, solving the problem would render them obsolete and that would never do.

    It's horrible, but the retail politics makes sense.

    Rhetoric without delivery after 12 years of power will not reap rewards. Most people are not hate-filled Daily Mail readers who view refugees as sub-human scum who deserve firebombing, diphtheria and detention. They just want solutions. If the Tories are not providing any they will look elsewhere.


    They want solutions which don't involve shelling out £200/person/night indefinitely, though.
    Tell Premier Inn you are only paying £100 a night.

    When they object ask if they want a health & safety inspection. Of every facility. Every week. Until they agree.
    Naah, I stayed in the premier inn (or possibly travelodge?) at cullompton services a bit ago, because an Irish transport firm wanted to drop off a horse for me there at 4 in the morning. Fabulously clean, fab bed. Ditto identikit airport hotels in this coubntry. It's the one off olde character innes that's vulnerable to h & S.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    Heathener said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An example of how out of touch Twitter is: #BringBackMasks is trending at the moment.

    Still wear mine indoors. Most of the young Asians around here wear them indoors and outdoors.

    I don't even notice I wear it now. Like knickers.
    You wear knickers around your face?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Andy_JS said:

    Off topic, we went out for a stroll earlier and the local estate was mobbed with Trick or Treaters. Disappointing lack of mums in witches outfits, however.

    I was on the tube late on Saturday night. Lots of interesting costumes. And the first time I’ve seen someone snorting coke on a tube train…

    Did you inform the police?
    They won't give a fuck.

    My father used to have a pied-à-terre in Brixton. Before my mother eventually browbeat him into selling it in about 2015 he used to have fellas happily piping away on crack sat on his doorstep. He called the cops many time and I don't think they ever turned up once. His excuse was that it wasn't close to Europe's busiest drug rehab clinic when he bought in 1963.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    edited October 2022

    ...

    I wonder if this was the headline Braverman’s critics were hoping for:

    Braverman reveals they are up to 4 STAR hotels for migrants. Says bad use of public money. Gobsmacking.

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1587140334852661249?

    We need to pinpoint the HS responsible for this outrage. The Postman? Jacqui Smith? Reid? maybe Blunkett or Straw?

    I am going for Jacqui Smith, because I quite like the Postman.

    P.S. I have an mid morning flight out of Bristol next week. I have a Premier Inn booked for £49 on the seafront at Weston for the night before. Perhaps I should be be engaged to procure accommodation for asylum seekers rather than the Government.
    It will all be down to Corbyn by bedtime
    Brexit encouraged them to come. Brexit a far bigger “come over and see me” invite than Angela Merkel ever made.

    For Troo Global Britain the whole planet must live here. Put up by government in the best hotels.

    Blame that. 😈
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The whole point of the Braverman performance was to tick every hard right box imaginable, using the most inflammatory language, and so to make it impossible for Sunak to sack her without major political repercussions. Her message to him is basically: "If I go, you do too". And Sunak's problem is that she could well be right.

    The thing is, she knows she is right; the current level of boat people is unsustainable, and when you know there's no comeback, you can go completely ham on something and challenge people to oppose you.

    What is more challenging for her is solving the damn thing.
    It's a classic dividing line issue, thought, because the Left - and plenty of (most?) liberal centrists too - refuse to accept it's even an issue, and to the extent they do they argue to make it easier, and therefore cede the entire terrain to the Conservatives - even though they have abjectly failed to solve it.

    It's clever politics. It's risky for the Conservatives only if they get outflanked to the Right.

    They have to deliver. That's the risk.

    They don't, as long as they have someone to blame for the failure- probably Human Rights Lawyers. In fact for some people, solving the problem would render them obsolete and that would never do.

    It's horrible, but the retail politics makes sense.

    Rhetoric without delivery after 12 years of power will not reap rewards. Most people are not hate-filled Daily Mail readers who view refugees as sub-human scum who deserve firebombing, diphtheria and detention. They just want solutions. If the Tories are not providing any they will look elsewhere.


    They want solutions which don't involve shelling out £200/person/night indefinitely, though.
    Tell Premier Inn you are only paying £100 a night.

    When they object ask if they want a health & safety inspection. Of every facility. Every week. Until they agree.
    Naah, I stayed in the premier inn (or possibly travelodge?) at cullompton services a bit ago, because an Irish transport firm wanted to drop off a horse for me there at 4 in the morning. Fabulously clean, fab bed. Ditto identikit airport hotels in this coubntry. It's the one off olde character innes that's vulnerable to h & S.
    On our half-term trip we stayed at a Premier Inn and a Travelodge. Neither are anything special - in the least - but both provided clean accommodation and a good breakfast. Job done.

    I don't stay in hotels or B&B's as much as I used to, but IME it's hard to get really bad experiences in the chains. But also quite hard to get brilliant experiences in them as well.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Dura_Ace said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Off topic, we went out for a stroll earlier and the local estate was mobbed with Trick or Treaters. Disappointing lack of mums in witches outfits, however.

    I was on the tube late on Saturday night. Lots of interesting costumes. And the first time I’ve seen someone snorting coke on a tube train…

    Did you inform the police?
    They won't give a fuck.

    My father used to have a pied-à-terre in Brixton. Before my mother eventually browbeat him into selling it in about 2015 he used to have fellas happily piping away on crack sat on his doorstep. He called the cops many time and I don't think they ever turned up once. His excuse was that it wasn't close to Europe's busiest drug rehab clinic when he bought in 1963.
    I think the police find reports of crime to be quite the distraction. Especially for crimes which are almost certain to not be solved.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Andy_JS said:

    Off topic, we went out for a stroll earlier and the local estate was mobbed with Trick or Treaters. Disappointing lack of mums in witches outfits, however.

    I was on the tube late on Saturday night. Lots of interesting costumes. And the first time I’ve seen someone snorting coke on a tube train…

    Did you inform the police?
    It would take a 'special' kind of dedicated individual to travel around central London on the weekend and report all suspected incidences of cocaine consumption to the cops
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507

    It is great that PBers go to the effort of reporting US midterm opinion polls. However, without knowing which candidate is running for which party they aren't so informative to folk like me who don't follow these things so closely.

    So can I please ask that you add (D) or (R) after the name so I know whether I should cheer or boo.

    Thanks!

    Booooooo!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    Every time I'm in a Travelodge on a work trip I wish I was in a Premier Inn.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397

    Andy_JS said:

    Off topic, we went out for a stroll earlier and the local estate was mobbed with Trick or Treaters. Disappointing lack of mums in witches outfits, however.

    I was on the tube late on Saturday night. Lots of interesting costumes. And the first time I’ve seen someone snorting coke on a tube train…

    Did you inform the police?
    It would take a 'special' kind of dedicated individual to travel around central London on the weekend and report all suspected incidences of cocaine consumption to the cops
    You'd certainly have to be very determined to cause a major political scandal like that.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    edited October 2022
    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    Just back from Spain. Very pleasant week in Zaragoza.

    Mask report: Spain has a mask requirement on public transport which was, as far as I could tell, complied with 100%. Elsewhere, one or two people wearing masks, but the vast majority of people out for their evening paseo or in the museums were maskless.

    Would you recommend Zaragoza? Thinking of stopping there en route from Bilbao to Barcelona.
    The two Cathedrals are impressive & there are some decentish Roman remains in the centre. Also a Goya museum with a full set of his late etchings / prints if that’s your thing. The origami museum is a small gem.

    Tapas in the El Tubo district was excellent & very reasonably priced.

    The city itself is a tad rundown & was presumably hit very hard by the financial crash. I wouldn’t necessarily go out of your way, but if it’s en route? Sure.
    Also, the Aragon assembly meets in a building that’s part of the old castle, which you can tour & is worth the visit. Getting to stand in Ferdinand & Isabella’s throne room does have a certain frisson about it.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The whole point of the Braverman performance was to tick every hard right box imaginable, using the most inflammatory language, and so to make it impossible for Sunak to sack her without major political repercussions. Her message to him is basically: "If I go, you do too". And Sunak's problem is that she could well be right.

    The thing is, she knows she is right; the current level of boat people is unsustainable, and when you know there's no comeback, you can go completely ham on something and challenge people to oppose you.

    What is more challenging for her is solving the damn thing.
    It's a classic dividing line issue, thought, because the Left - and plenty of (most?) liberal centrists too - refuse to accept it's even an issue, and to the extent they do they argue to make it easier, and therefore cede the entire terrain to the Conservatives - even though they have abjectly failed to solve it.

    It's clever politics. It's risky for the Conservatives only if they get outflanked to the Right.

    They have to deliver. That's the risk.

    They don't, as long as they have someone to blame for the failure- probably Human Rights Lawyers. In fact for some people, solving the problem would render them obsolete and that would never do.

    It's horrible, but the retail politics makes sense.

    Rhetoric without delivery after 12 years of power will not reap rewards. Most people are not hate-filled Daily Mail readers who view refugees as sub-human scum who deserve firebombing, diphtheria and detention. They just want solutions. If the Tories are not providing any they will look elsewhere.


    They want solutions which don't involve shelling out £200/person/night indefinitely, though.
    Tell Premier Inn you are only paying £100 a night.

    When they object ask if they want a health & safety inspection. Of every facility. Every week. Until they agree.
    Naah, I stayed in the premier inn (or possibly travelodge?) at cullompton services a bit ago, because an Irish transport firm wanted to drop off a horse for me there at 4 in the morning. Fabulously clean, fab bed. Ditto identikit airport hotels in this coubntry. It's the one off olde character innes that's vulnerable to h & S.
    On our half-term trip we stayed at a Premier Inn and a Travelodge. Neither are anything special - in the least - but both provided clean accommodation and a good breakfast. Job done.

    I don't stay in hotels or B&B's as much as I used to, but IME it's hard to get really bad experiences in the chains. But also quite hard to get brilliant experiences in them as well.
    Sure. but they aren't selling a brilliant experience, just job done with no nasty surprises.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,803

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:

    Tres said:

    Tories gone full UKIP. Nasty nasty party.

    Well, yes. I mean, isn't there some law against putting people up in Premier Inns?
    Tip. When you are about to post your one-liners, pause and ask yourself if they fall into the category of facetious or, worse, snide rather than funny.

    xx
    I did.

    And it was still a fair comment.

    Never had a decent night's sleep in a Premier Inn.
    I'd hate to think facetious or snide one-liners are no longer permitted. Adding a second line would rarely improve them.
    I fucking love Premier Inns.
    I'd be absolutely delighted if you offered me a night in a Premier Inn.
    Though a blanket wouldn't go amiss. Easier than trying to wrestle with the temperature controls.
This discussion has been closed.